general-tech

[rugged field]

ok i would accept that if it was triangular

but its a square

so it needs 4 buttons

[delicate quarry]

What should you do with the 4th button?

[rugged field]

idk

[delicate quarry]

“Fidget button”

[rugged field]

you can play tetris with 4 buttons

[icy moth]

Nah, by that logic a circular watch should have circumference/button width buttons

[rugged field]

yes

it should

or a rotary encoder

like the ben ten watch where you can turn the outer frame as an input

[delicate quarry]

I’m imagining a giant rotary encoder on your wrist, and I gotta say, it does make for a novel watch…

[rugged field]

yep

[delicate quarry]

When will you have stock?

[icy moth]

I’ll just design a version of Apple’s Digital Crown

[rugged field]

or a rotary switch

[icy moth]

That thing is so complex, idk have they even mill all the parts for it

[rugged field]

you turn the grippy ring around the screen and it turns the rotary switch as an input

[icy moth]

That would be pretty hard to do without spending $$$$ on a prototype

[rugged field]

i can confirm the 4 $

the full prototype for my RP2040 IoT/cellular project costs like $500 total

[icy moth]

Plus the level of detail required would mean I’d need advanced manufacturing capabilities like 5 axis CNC machines

[rugged field]

or you pay a website that has a factory in china do it for you

[icy moth]

I checked pricing of getting prototypes for an anodized aluminum case for my watch, $$

[rugged field]

it takes a while but its pretty easy

well i think the problem is not the complex manufacturing but the anodized aluminum

[delicate quarry]

Might be easier to turn a knob with display into a watch at that point, rather than the other way around.

[rugged field]

although the whole case would work as a heatsink

and be shiny

[icy moth]

Plus I’d need a glass bottom for the inductive charging

[delicate quarry]

Imagine https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/products/displays-2/rotary-knobs-with-a-display-in-the-middle-2022-10/ on your wrist LMAO

[rugged field]

thats what im sayin

[delicate quarry]

Then make it

[rugged field]

bet

dont bet i need my money for parts

[delicate quarry]

Don’t we all

[rugged field]

yes

but my grandpa gives me a $50 every time i see him

i have 2 in my phone case

[delicate quarry]

Wow must be nice

[icy moth]

If I’m going to make an incredible product, I’m going to spend good money to make it very refined

[rugged field]

yea

[delicate quarry]

Six visits is a new 3d printer lmao

[icy moth]

My job gives me $52.50 for every hour I work

The government takes about $16 of that though

[rugged field]

i had a 3d printer but it didnt work so my mom sold it

i didnt get a single cent

[icy moth]

Well, gov and 401k/benefits

[delicate quarry]

It’s a 3d printer, not a money printer heh

Did you pay for it though

[rugged field]

lol my parents pay me $10/hour when I organize stuff or build stuff for their business

[rugged field]

no it was a Hannukah present

i built a small table yesterday and i removed the background of the png of their logo and got paid in parts

[icy moth]

My business pays me 5% of revenue

[rugged field]

commission

[icy moth]

Which right now is $0 because I’m just getting things set up

[rugged field]

bruh

[icy moth]

Not commission, it’s pass through income

[rugged field]

oh

[icy moth]

It would be more but I’m devoting like 12.5% for R&D

[rugged field]

faier

fair*

[icy moth]

45% for operating and overhead expenses related to inventory and stuff

[rugged field]

ok

[icy moth]

30% because self employment taxes are a lot

[rugged field]

87.5% gone

[icy moth]

7.5% devoted for profits

[rugged field]

ok

whats the last 5%

[icy moth]

My cut of revenue

[rugged field]

oof

[rugged field]

where did the $50 for R&D come from

investment?

[icy moth]

I put it into the business when opening the account

[rugged field]

oh

[icy moth]

Business is hard. It’s why so many fail.

[rugged field]

what even is your business

[icy moth]

https://oakdev.tech

I run a small maker business

[rugged field]

so i could fill out a form and upload some files (and pay you a large sum of money) and you will prototype and manufacture my project

[icy moth]

It’s been around for a while but I just rebooted the business

[rugged field]

also i like the icy blue

[shell hearth]

just forget it, throw some hot swap sockets on that bad boy

[lean warren]

hey guys, lets just say you had 2 cubes that would be magnetically connected through an electrode...

and you need to transfer the knowledge from 1 side to the other.

so: you need to tell the other side: This is the DAC value, copy it and move to the end.

[rugged field]

have the main electrode in the middle of the cubes face and have smaller pogo pins that interface when the cubes lock together. now you have multiple individual connections between cubes that you can do whatever you want with

you can have an ATTiny on each face to handle communication between cubes and logging the DAC value to a central cube memory

each cube face can talk to the cube its part of and any connecting cubes and transfer and store data

or have each cube be independent excluding power and use an rf mesh network

you could have a LoRa module in each cube that all talk to a controller so all you need to do is transfer power between the cubes and they will all connect up by default

[hearty karma]

There was a user on here a while back doing stuff like that. Cool looking touch sensitive light up blocks that hooked up magnetically.

#show-and-tell message

[regal horizon]

Magnetic hexagons for wall art were very popular a couple years ago. They magnetically connected together. The magnetic connectors that Adafruit sells in their store do have pogo like springs in some of them.

It's just a matter of time before Pixelblaze takes that concept and makes an entire fibonaci wall.

[lean warren]

thank you, you have helped me a lot. this project is going to go beautifully 🙂

https://tenor.com/view/kick-door-open-the-door-entrance-entering-door-gif-12127992

lets go.

[jaunty socket]

or playing a recorded sound automatically involve an audio-codec/DAC?

[lean warren]

yes. it gives you waves and frequency 🙂

[jaunty socket]

and you need a speaker on your board as well I guess ?

Like esp32-s2 dont have a speaker

or a headphones connector

I basically need to make my wheeled robot meows and hiss

[woeful whale]

Esp32-s2 has a dac

So if there's support for audio playback, you can just connect that to an amplifier module

[steady gulch]

and it does I2S for digital audio

[delicate quarry]

With the announcement of the new uno R4, are there any plans to explore anything with the renesas MCUs? Say, a possible circuitpython port?

It’s pretty exciting news, considering it’s kind of like a 5V metro m4

[steady gulch]

32kB RAM ?

[delicate quarry]

Actually nvm

Just saw the memory lol

Still, a pretty good option for an uno replacement

Clock speed is nowhere near samd51 either

But ehhh

Floating point.

[steady gulch]

more like SAMD21 specs but M4

yeah there's that

[delicate quarry]

That’s a fair comparison.

[nova finch]

Hey 32K is a lot. That's like 6 VIC20s. 😄

[steady gulch]

it has an ESP32-S3 Mini 1 on it as a wifi chip, now THAT can run CP 😄

[delicate quarry]

RA4 is pretty low on their offerings though, might be interesting to see an RA6 with arduino or python support…

I was planning to develop a ramps shield for the m4 grand central, but now I may wait for a renesas mega instead…

[main hemlock]

It doesn't have external flash either, so it's kind of like a souped up Trinket M0 with lots more pins.

maybe a 5V Arduino Zero is a better comparison

[teal wadi]

Time to port https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_BASIC to it! :D

What's with the yellow rectangle over the board?

[main hemlock]

they haven't said; not sure if it is hiding some new design thing, or something more significant

[teal wadi]

It might just be graphic design stuff, too

In any case, does anyone happen to know the expected price? I've just skimmed that page

[steady gulch]

it's a new post-it note holder feature

[drifting ice]

Status report: Old monitor might be going, and the 8-channel PiEEG module will be taking almost a full year to ship out. [april of 2024]

i am greatly distraught. /mentally drained, tired

On the flip-side, I'm making great progress on practicing how to drive!!

[hearty karma]

My old monitor started to get flaky, I replaced the electrolytic capacitors in its power supply and it's fine again.

[drifting ice]

Yeah, might take it apart if this keeps up.

[hearty karma]

Huh, I just checked, it was made in 2006, so not that old

[drifting ice]

dunno what could be the culprit though. It's always with VGA that it scales horribly sometimes, always squished with poor graphic quality at the most random times when I plug it back in.

[hearty karma]

VGA is tricky, as it's an analogue signal, so it has to get sampled, reclocked, reprocessed, etc.

[drifting ice]

Welp, it's either that [what I got] or buying a mini displayport to DVI adapter.

why did mini displayport exist-

[hearty karma]

I am indeed currently using minidisplayport to DVI adapter

[drifting ice]

epic

[hearty karma]

It's a nutty setup, it goes from the computer to the drive array (Thunderbolt), then on to the monitor for display.

[drifting ice]

Hey, if it works, it works. Done worse before just to get something working. 😅

[hearty karma]

Heh, yup

[teal wadi]

You actually ordered that? You mad person :P

[drifting ice]

I want to build myself an extra limb, and I'm not letting anything stop me.

[teal wadi]

The good news is that, if my understanding of... everything is correct, as long as you keep yourself safe, this should beis definitely possible with current technology and knowledge, though you shouldn't be expecting realtime control

[drifting ice]

Either I will find a way, or try my heart out to make it a reality.

plus if it's just latency I need to be worried about, then that's nothing some practice and prediction can't fix imo.

[native hare]

You could experiment on smaller mammals like rats

[drifting ice]

Do I look like a person who owns a full-blown laboratory?

[teal wadi]

That's VERY illegal without a license and an IRB (=institutional review board) approval.

[native hare]

Dont need a lab

[drifting ice]

also yes

[teal wadi]

It is also unethical without going through the proper channels.

[native hare]

Hmm ok

I find the ethical lines a little blurry given how society arbitrarily values certain animals, but that's beyond the scope of discussion

[hearty karma]

I don't have a full blown laboratory either. I have ... this.

[drifting ice]

H O L Y F L I N T L O C K

[teal wadi]

You... uh... know this is better-equipped than a lot of places, right? :P

[pine igloo]

That's cool man

[drifting ice]

envy: maximum.
concern: integer_overflow_error

[pine igloo]

Here's a good list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_model_organisms
Some nice species also are:
Saccharomyces cerevisiae* (baker's yeast)
Caenorhabditis elegans* (nematode)
Drosophila melanogaster* (fruit fly)
Danio rerio* (Zebrafish)
Mus musculus* (Mouse)

[drifting ice]

we've been over this. /slightly miffed

[teal wadi]

Yeah, you can't exactly start working on these without the proper permits. Especially mammal research (mice!) require extensive review and approval prior to the experiments even beginning

[native hare]

I would like to experiment with daphnia since they reproduce with the same genes

[pine igloo]

Not if anyone knows 🙈

[teal wadi]

....

[native hare]

I would also like to experiment with fungi for composting bioplastics

[rugged field]

imagine you left your phone outside and when you came back to it, it was a bunch of circuit boards and components because the case decomposed

lmao

[native hare]

that is my dream scenario

[drifting ice]

🤦

[native hare]

The distribution of microplastics is beyond imagination

[rugged field]

ok but if you leave your water bottle outside, you come back to a puddle

[native hare]

Ideally we'd move on from PET bottles since those aren't compostable

Compostable here refers to ANSI and ISO standards for composting

[drifting ice]

I ask this of you with utmost sincerity; PLEASE, get a permit first and do this kind of experimentation in a place isolated from the rest of the world or in a controlled environment before we have an XK-Class End of the World scenario.

ok?

[native hare]

lol

[drifting ice]

I'm not joking.

[native hare]

I don't have the resources to perform these experiments

[drifting ice]

****then why didn't youoipup[uysopayaaye790q2409

next time

please lead with that

[icy moth]

Okie dokie let’s maybe take things down just a weeee bit

[hearty karma]

When I was a teenager, I read "Mutant 59: The Plastic Eaters". It was science fiction then. We're getting worryingly close now.

[icy moth]

it seems like we are there, I read they found microplastics in people's blood

[hearty karma]

I was thinking of things like Rhodococcus ruber and Ideonella sakaiensis

[icy moth]

Ah okay

[teal wadi]

So, I was thinking of building a new number crunching PC for CPU +memory-intensive tasks (think prime95, linpack, etc-like workloads CPU-wise). Both single- and multi-threaded performance are important to me, and the more threads I end up having access to for my money, the better. I'd also like the ability to later add a GPU and have it perform well, if needed. Because accuracy is a concern, I'll be keeping everything stock, so overclocking potential is not something I'm factoring into. Any parts CPU/motherboard suggestions?

[hearty karma]

Sounds like a job for PPC/ARM to me

[teal wadi]

In an ideal world, I'd agree (the power consumption is so much better), but, so many things expect amd64, it just can't be helped...

[woeful whale]

What do you mean because accuracy is a concern? Overclocking should not affect number crunching accuracy. (Except in maybe extremely rare cases (but I've never heard of a single instance of errors introduced because of a reasonable (not extreme) OC))

And Linus Tech Tips or another techtuber probably has a pc build video or cpu reviews that fits your spec

Maybe go AMD since they tend to have more performance cores (and cache with the x3d chips)

Mobo rarely ever matters for performance. Vrm performance affects power that can be pushed to the CPU, but usually a mobo just affects your IO options.

[jaunty socket]

I want to builf myself an extra limb not letting anyone stop me and if they try i use my 6 arms to push them away!!!

learned today that us sellers cant export an fpga to me 😦

these embargos stuff is so confusing. Im in Canada but apparently theres an embargo on Canada too

i dont know im so confused

us sellers asking so many question and i dont know how to prove something im not or how to prove i wont do something

like they were asking if the board has an adc with a bandwidth above 55ghz

I haven't any idea what this even mean

[verbal aspen]

If you're not buying a $10,000+ FPGA, the answer is "no".

(By that I mean that's an extremely high-end feature of very expensive chips.)

[jaunty socket]

i mean i saw this question for simple mcu on a board...

i guess i sound sus / not confident enough when i answer

like the end use question

i guess need it to make my robot car meows doesnt qualify for export

[woeful whale]

You shouldn't need an fpga for that

[jaunty socket]

or saying that i cant guarantee where it will end up in the world if it get stolen

[woeful whale]

That's a job for a wav or mp3 trigger or a decently powerful devboatd

[jaunty socket]

im just talking in general but i was specifically canceled on an fpga order

[woeful whale]

And I've heard HDLs are kinda hard

[jaunty socket]

possibly because of the export rhing

[woeful whale]

But really cool

[jaunty socket]

but ive had intrusive questions on simple electronics

[woeful whale]

Almost nothing outside of uber expensive rf equipment would have a 55GHz ADC

That's an insane speed only reserved for the most S tier of oscilloscopes

[jaunty socket]

yyeah but anything 33mhz and over is also export controlled

like arduinos and esp32s2

[woeful whale]

Huh

That's really weird

[jaunty socket]

and export refers to us export AND cbsa refusing to let me pick a package without questions

because they though id rexport it outside canada (the 33 mhz thing)

cuz apparently buying 4 of the same board is suspicious

[woeful whale]

Maybe they think that there's a possibility that you could export the technology to somewhere like Russia

But that's not really probable lol

[jaunty socket]

yeah that is the law they showed me

[woeful whale]

But that would make sense why they want to restrict stuff that could be used for rf stuff

[jaunty socket]

tons of electronics stuff restrictions lot of it is hobby scale specs

[hearty karma]

Arduinos are 16MHz, less than half of 33MHz

[jaunty socket]

another example was lidar with a range of 1km using less than 20 milliwatts didnt even know that was possible

some are 33mhz no?

[hearty karma]

Yeah, it's possible with the right signal processing.

[jaunty socket]

esp32s are 33mhz though pretty sure of that

[woeful whale]

Yes

[jaunty socket]

or something on them saaid 33mhz somewhere

[woeful whale]

240MHz iirc

And technically 2.4GHz as well

But only for the radio

[jaunty socket]

i was kinda annoyed because they asked technical specs and i dont even know what some of the words even meant

[woeful whale]

And even more technically LEDs are above 33MHz. They emit electromagnetic radiation in the THz

[jaunty socket]

i really wanted to say at some point i could tell you but it's not like you'd understand...

[hearty karma]

I had one person insist that it was the crystal frequency that mattered. Which is pretty bogus, as there are chips out there that use a 32kHz crystal and then PLL it to >100MHz

[jaunty socket]

i could have talked on how useless it would be on something like a mig35

but i felt that it was best to not display my military knowledge of hardware from janes 🤣

[hearty karma]

I remember the Soviet 8086 knockoffs

[jaunty socket]

yeah that was another topic i avoided

[hearty karma]

Good idea.

[jaunty socket]

not like theyd newd those 33mhz.chips anyway since they had soviet version of up to 486s

[hearty karma]

A nutty chip to clone, but military operations everywhere seem to just stick with whatever they've been using.

[jaunty socket]

like i could have BS talked about how to improve the accuracy of old sa9 gainful with 33mhz for an hour in general woth the image processing etc

but i felt like they wouldn't be the right audience for that 🤣

[jaunty socket]

the soviet also did everything they could to have a different standard from the west as well

So that if the gear was obtained on a battlefield getting the right logic level, making a battery that don't exist in the US, a custom socket in the wall etc

would all be issues that would have to be fixed before it could even be tried out

[teal wadi]

Doesn't mobo also affect max ram? Or is that no longer the case?

[teal wadi]

https://hdlbits.01xz.net/wiki/Step_one GO!

[woeful whale]

No. Memory controllers are on the cpu. But technically they do bc some only have two slots and others have 4.

[teal wadi]

I remember the mobo chipset affecting it, but perhaps I was wrong or this was from a bygone age :P

Anyway, check out the link I gave you if you wanna learn yourself some verilog

[woeful whale]

That was back when north bridges and south bridges existed. Now, chipsets only affect overclockability and IO (pcie) pretty much

[teal wadi]

TIL North/Southbridges are no longer a thing

[hearty karma]

It's an odd design choice, but just a recent one in a long string of peculiar design choices

[jaunty socket]

I think they mean like before a 32 bits cpu can uses a max of 4 GB in RMA

and 64 bits is around 16 million TB

[teal wadi]

...and I guess whether or not you will end up with a buggy firmware that doesn't play well with linux

[jaunty socket]

remember winmodems ?

Like linux couldnt even begin to understand them

[teal wadi]

yeah :\ They were essentially glorified soundcards IIRC

[hearty karma]

Linux had no trouble understanding them, it's just they were so stripped down that they required bizarre timing that was impractical with a real multitasking operating system.

[jaunty socket]

I remember proposals to make linmodems back on freenode back then 😄

[teal wadi]

I mean, windows xp worked with winmodems and that definitely had preemptive multitasking

Or is that not the case?

Genuinely don't know

[jaunty socket]

I remember something like they didnt have the fallback protocol for modems

where you could connect in serial and do ATDT etc

even if you didnt have the specific drivers

but these didnt do anything standard

I see the one I had was a so-called "pure software modems"

that is probably why it was a dead brick on linux

[jaunty socket]

found this in a pocket behind my stove

manual to interface ttl with it if I wanted hidden in plain sight for the last 5 years 😦

is this a normal thing ?

[jaunty socket]

huh gps tracking on a 6.75 british pound package of meat ?

How does that make sense on a financial level ? Are gps devices really this cheap ?

[verbal aspen]

Are you sure it's GPS and not just like an RFID tag or temperature logger?

[jaunty socket]

but I doubt a satellite can see a box with a piece of steak in it from space ?

It would have to transmit to say where you took it

Box says protected by GPS

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/co-op-branches-putting-meat-24430529 but can see it on youtube videos as well etc

sounds like BS to me

GPS device aren't 1$

[verbal aspen]

I presume the box is reusable and retained by the store when someone buys the meat, so the cost would be amortized over potentially years.

[jaunty socket]

ah I see lol

article is from march 31st 2021

ie: an april fool

[verbal aspen]

Ah, yeah, thanks for the reminder. Don't believe anything you read for at least the next 24 hours...

[jaunty socket]

it was in a top type video posted today on youtube

so I didnt have the original context lol

[native hare]

Why don't we use FPGAs as personal computers

[jaunty socket]

how many pixels on your screen ? that should tell you why

suppose you calculate a shader on an fpga, how many logical units would you need to fit a UHD frame ? How much does an fpga with over 1m logical units costs?

That should start to tell you why ...

[verbal aspen]

The programmability of FPGAs comes at a performance and cost penalty. One that was beefy enough to emulate a modern Intel chip would be 10x as expensive and power hungry at least.

[jaunty socket]

It's kinda the same class of question as to why we dont use 64gb of L1 memory as RAM

for the gps stuff above I know about airtags but afaik they hostile connect to any apple toys around so they aren't really gps but more like an apple-powered smart internal network

[hearty karma]

You can get an Arduino built out of an FPGA https://aloriumtech.com/xlr8/

[woeful whale]

GPS satellites do not receive. They only transmit a timestamp and the receiver triangulates its position based on the timing difference between signals.

[jaunty socket]

yeah I know that but it wasnt worth mentionning because wifi/bluetooth is very cheap vs gps

it mean it wouldn't be hard to make a box this big that can update its position to a server using some open wifi or something

the problem is getting its position

[drifting ice]

I FIXED THE PI'S TIME AND DATE PROBLEM!!!!

IDK HOW BUT I FIXED IT!!!

Also discovered a spare backup battery bank for smartphones is more than sufficient to keep the Pi running.

I AM ON FIRE TODAY

[jaunty socket]

@hearty karma says there isn't a way to search those FCC filling by says available document like "schematics" for those that forgot to asks to protect it right? 😄

[woeful whale]

yeah it would need a cellular modem and stuff on it

[nova finch]

I'm in need of a 15" or larger hdmi display. Needs to be thin, minimal bezel. Doesn't need a stand (planning on building it into a picture frame). Trying to figure out best options. Not sure if I should get an off-the-shelf portable monitor, or build something out of a laptop replacement panel + hdmi-to-40-pin adapter. Anyone have any experience with this?

[main hemlock]

how thin is thin? The last Dell 24" monitor I got is 2.1" deep without stand. It has minimal bezel except for the buttons on the bottom.

This is interesting; I assume you could unfold the bottom part to make it flat, but you'd have to conceal it: https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-14-portable-monitor-c1422h/apd/210-bbij/monitors-monitor-accessories

[nova finch]

Yeah, I'm thinking that'd be a reasonable option. I was going down a rabbit hole of controller / display combos (e.g. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R6HNFSQ) and it's probably not worth the trouble

[nova finch]

Yep. There are a bunch of fold-up portable monitors. That might be my best bet.

[main hemlock]

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/element-electronics-element-24-ips-led-1080p-full-hd-frameless-monitor-black/6509701.p?skuId=6509701 1.7" thick, and it's cheap

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/shop/thin-monitors

[nova finch]

Turns out my spouse had a 21" Acer monitor sitting around. Without the stand, it's only 37mm (1.5") deep. That's not much thicker than some picture frames. Should work just fine.

Apparently, it pays to ask about stuff like that, especially when there's two work-from-home techies in the family. 😄

[delicate quarry]

You can get REALLY thin if you can hide the driver board elsewhere, but if you’re going for a single body device, off-the-shelf displays are a comparable option for a lot less work.

[nova finch]

Yeah, and I need to tuck an Raspberry Pi Zero in there anyway. Should be plenty of room.

[hearty karma]

Laptop ones are quite thin (under 10mm is common), and they do generally work well with adaptors.

[icy moth]

Pro tip: make sure to redo your rats nest to avoid this neat bridge

[teal wadi]

Kind of offtopic: Which model of microscope is that? How much does it cost?

[icy moth]

Some chinesium white label one I bought off Amazon

[teal wadi]

I should probably look at aliexpress then

[hearty karma]

That's where I got my binocular zoom boom microscope. It's not fancy, but it works for me.

[icy moth]

Also, I heard y’all like USB C

This was also a great chance to validate two back LDO options

[teal wadi]

Love the stray FTDI IC

Also, purple board. Fancy!

[icy moth]

Stray?

[teal wadi]

Not really, but we were discussing the CP2102 the other day

[icy moth]

Ohhh yeah

[teal wadi]

So I expected to see that

[icy moth]

That was for the keyboard feather wing that’s in the works

I don’t think you can program lattice with a cp2102

Or flash at that

[teal wadi]

Genuinely curious, why?

[icy moth]

Doesn’t support SPI protocol

[teal wadi]

Ah.

[icy moth]

FT232H can program SPI flash

And SPI devices

Also i2c

[teal wadi]

Ah, it's the USB-to-GPIO IC, not the UART one

My fault for not looking at the part number more closely

:P

[icy moth]

Yeah lol

[teal wadi]

I'm guessing you're wiring USB-C in usb2.0 compat

[icy moth]

Yeah, it’s a USB C USB 2.0 connector

16+8 dummy

[pseudo zinc]

I almost asked you why it was micro-usb and not USB-C

[icy moth]

Old design when I was still using micro b

It was useful because I have more usb micro b cables

[teal wadi]

All in all, I have... three usb.c cables

[icy moth]

I have one that I can use for programming stuff

I use USB C connectors on basically every new board I make these days. Figured IcyBlue should keep with the times

[woeful whale]

MCP2221A?

[brittle gale]

hello ya'll, not sure where to ask for assistance about adafruit boards

Hello, everyone, I am highschool student in need of assistance with my nonfunctioning Adafruit metro m4 express board.

if anyone knows the reason to why my board is not being recognized by my laptop, please let me know. I will greatly appreciate any advice.

Here are ways I tried to fix this:

1. double press reset button
2. Used a different cable
3. Used a different port and laptop
4. holding the reset button
5. Check my anti-virus if it was blocking any feature
6. Checked if i downloaded any adafruit drivers
7. uninstalled and reinstalled com ports
8. restarted laptop

Here is the context around the situation for when it stopped functioning:

I was preheating an mq131 ozone sensor using the digital heating circuit, and while I was doing that, I was also reading the voltage through the analog ports. All was working fine here, it was being recognized and it was reading the voltage. But then, I had the idea to preheat my mq5 along with the mq131, and so I stopped the circuitpython code, ejected the usb, unplugged the usb, and wired and coded the mq5. Then when it was time to plug it back in, my laptop cannot recognize the board and so I can't use it.

Thank you so much.

sorry, just to add on:

I suspected that it could be a power issue (not enough power or something like that) so i unplugged everything, yet it's still nonfunctional.

[delicate quarry]

Device issues can be tricky to pinpoint. Might seem like a dumb idea, but have you tried either restarting your computer, or connecting to a different pc?

[brittle gale]

yes, i have tried restarting my computer and used a different pc. Sorry, i did not put that on the list.

[delicate quarry]

Hmmm. Hopefully it’s just a transient error and not an actual component on the board….

[brittle gale]

hopefully i didnt short anything : (

[delicate quarry]

Oh, when you first received the board, did you ever update the boot loader? There is a rare issue of certain parts of the internal flash being overwritten if you’re using an old boot loader… https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-metro-m4-express-featuring-atsamd51/update-the-uf2-bootloader

[brittle gale]

yes, was that the uf2 file?

Also, thank you for taking the time to help me, I appreciate it.

[delicate quarry]

One of them, anyways.

The other more commonly used uf2 updates circuitpython

[brittle gale]

https://circuitpython.org/board/metro_m4_express/

the first download on this is what i used

[delicate quarry]

So that would be the circuitpython uf2, not the boot loader update uf2.

If it is, in fact, an issue with the boot loader bricking the board, you’ll need some form of JTAG programmer to repair it…

[brittle gale]

oh wait, i did both

but i did use the old circuitpy uf2, i didnt realize it updated recently

actually scratch that

[delicate quarry]

That’s fine, as long as the boot loader wasn’t the old one

[brittle gale]

i used a diff board to put the bootload updater

i didnt put the bootloader on this board

ahhh

i have 5 boards total, i need to keep track of what i download on them.

thank you

[lost lily]

#define LEDCubeBaseTemplate template <ledCubeAxis_t x, ledCubeAxis_t y, ledCubeAxis_t z>

LEDCubeBaseTemplate class LEDCubeBase {

is there anything better than doing this? seems very hacky

[lament ocean]

Hi does someone knows if there is any way I can get custom sized displays? Or close to what im looking for about 23x44mm Display

[verbal aspen]

Custom would be quite expensive, so it's mostly just a problem of finding the closest thing off the shelf.

[woeful whale]

Aliexpress has a lot of differently sized displays

You could possibly find something there

[lament ocean]

Thx

[random ravine]

So frustrating, finding an off-by-one. But it is now fixed.

[supple crypt]

Did anyone else see Add 7-color e-ink display support listed as a CP8.1 thing and wonder if there's a new board or two coming?

Or if Adafruit/Pimoroni are about to make my Inky Frame with CircuitPython dreams come true?

[violet torrent]

Just saw someone who used to use proportional fonts when coding, and I can't even imagine what that would be like

[icy moth]

Pimoroni is working on MicroPython support last I saw

[violet torrent]

Am I weird for hating breadboarding?

[icy moth]

I’d rather go straight to a PCB myself lol..

I have breadboards the I rarely use

[violet torrent]

Exactly! I much prefer PCB prototyping

[hearty karma]

I don't have the patience, I like instant gratification, and the ability to iterate on a design in seconds until I converge on something that does what I want.

[violet torrent]

I find it's usually easier to focus on projects if they're in PCB form for some reason? But at the same time I do like the iterability of breadboarding when I do use it

[teal wadi]

heh, these days it's easier. Besides, PCBs are better for signal integrity and working with anything that switches faster than ~1MHz

[icy moth]

I cut my teeth with electronics by breadboarding transistors into things like adders, flip flops, mixes, etc..

It’s when you realize how much space it requires to do that with 2n2222a transistors

[hearty karma]

When working on my XL TTL project, I came up with a design for a TTL XOR gate built of discrete parts. Yeah.

[icy moth]

I just made 2 transistor NAND gates

I could only fit one ripple carry adder on a standard breadboard

Back in 2019

Transistors, resistors, and LEDs lol

Fun stuff 🙂

[icy moth]

If it’s not clear from the video, I’m adding 2 2b numbers

[woeful whale]

Breadboards are really good for quicker, one-off, and/or analog circuits that you want to test before making a PCB. And perfboard is good for one-off prototype stuff that doesn't need to be easily produced many times.

[violet torrent]

the thing i hate about breadboarding is all the wires you need

[icy moth]

Yeah, I don’t always have the patience to place wires

[cold pebble]

I've got projects on breadboards scattered around my house, some many years old now but still running fine

I don't mind soldering, but I really don't enjoy desoldering, so I don't solder up a perfboard unless I'm pretty sure (and I'm willing to forgo use of the components for an extended time if I change my mind)

[icy moth]

Sockets help solve this issue

But that’s an added cost and frustration

[cold pebble]

yeah, I do socket more expensive stuff, MCUs, etc

[inner linden]

I think making my own perfboards, bent to my evil will, helps a lot.

Example:

There's a perma-proto section, a perf section, and some footprints for SMT parts that I end up needing. The breadboard section helps avoid the mess of wiring.

OTOH, I'm somehow cursed. Every single switching power supply I've ever designed has worked straight away but the little PCB that's just got a Qt Py and some linear LED drivers is a bag of trouble. :/

[teal wadi]

I think you've found your niche! :D

[inner linden]

No, puns are my niche. Switching power supplies is the side hobby.

[teal wadi]

The question is... can you make a pun involving switching power supplies?

[supple crypt]

They've had it from launch

[icy moth]

I know, I was mostly talking about what has been developed beyond basic support

[supple crypt]

Yeah, my point is that I really want proper CP support. If they had it, I'd have already bought at least one of their Inky frames.

[icy moth]

Shouldn’t be that much work to get it working for CP

I think Scott (tannewt) has basic functionality working

[teal wadi]

I somehow find the fact that color eink is the new trend in the maker community very endearing

I'm looking forward to seeing what y'all are going to make with them!

[woeful whale]

everything must have a qwiic connector now

[next spindle]

I made, predictably, a picture frame for my partner. Earned a lot of brownie poins there.

[outer brook]

Mind linking the display?

[next spindle]

The Pimoroni

https://shop.pimoroni.com/en-us/products/inky-impression-5-7

I also made an enclosure for it, and would be happy to share the Illustrator file for that

[regal horizon]

@next spindle We have a #show-and-tell channel just for showing off your projects either completed or in progress. Nice project!

[teal wadi]

Aww, that's such a sweet thing to do! :D

[river hatch]

I noticed that Microchip's website now says that the ATmega328P is "Not Recommended for new designs." There is a new version, ATmega328PB, which is similar, with only a few backward-incompatibilities. However, I noticed that the ATmega328PB does not seem to be available in a DIP package. Is this the end of through-hole microcontrollers?

That would put an end to "breadboard Arduino", and it would also make it impossible to make something like the "Make Your UNO Kit" using only through-hole components.

[river hatch]

No, you're not weird. (Or, perhaps more likely, I am weird too.) If I feel confident in my design (which is usually the case if it's all microcontrollers and digital chips) I will go straight to designing a PCB in KiCad.

If I feel uncertain, I will breadboard a test circuit first, to test out the thing I'm not sure about. (This is often the case if it involves transistors or anything analog.) Just a few days ago, I had an idea that involved a couple of MOSFETS, and using a voltage regulator in a somewhat unusual way. I thought it would work, but I breadboarded it, and when I applied power, it set the breadboard on fire. So, good thing I didn't go straight to a PCB with that idea.

(The black thing that is shaped like an LED is in fact an LED, which got completely coated in soot when the voltage regulator next to it burst into flames.)

[icy moth]

Being weird is awesome

Fellow weirdo here 🙂

[teal wadi]

Bonus soot sprite LED!

[next spindle]

Soot sprite?

[teal wadi]

Well, it's covered in soot

[cold pebble]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL_1y5xdnWs

[hearty karma]

As a bonus, it includes a second UART

[river hatch]

Yeah, it definitely seems like an upgrade. Just too bad it looks like there won't be a DIP version.

[hearty karma]

Yeah, DIP chips are a dying breed, alas. https://hackaday.com/2018/04/15/rip-dip-arm/

[icy moth]

Lol TodBot gave the tip for that article

[river hatch]

I bought a bunch of pre-made breadboard wires from Adafruit. However, I also have a huge rat's nest of red, black, and white wires of all different lengths left over from college. Back then, we had to do a project in a giant breadboard-in-a-briefcase that we called a "nerd kit". So, I still use those when I do breadboarding, along with the pre-made wires.

[hearty karma]

For some reason, I have a large number of red and black F-F jumpers, so they get used whenever I need one.

[snow light]

I love stories like this. I know it's not the intended outcome but it's still kinda awesome to say you accidentally torched a vreg

[river hatch]

I was disappointed that even the Propeller took that route. You can get the Propeller 1 as a 40-pin DIP you can put directly on a breadboard for $11.19. But the Propeller 2 is only available as a 100-pin TQFP, and the "module" that contains the Propeller 2 is $79.00, which seems unreasonable. Even then, the module has a card-edge connector, so you can't put it directly on a breadboard.

(I never really got into the Propeller, in large part because its programming model is so different from anything else that it's nontrivial to migrate to. But it always seemed like a cool concept.)

[snow light]

http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/images/PRODUCTS/PA0109_0.JPG

What an amazing adapter, it'll almost dwarf the breadboard!

[river hatch]

Yeah, although in fairness, their module is more than just an adapter. It has some supporting circuitry, and they also talk about it being a 6-layer PCB that's designed with noise and thermals in mind. I don't know if it would be possible to use a simple TQFP adapter board with the Propeller 2 or not.

[snow light]

Yeah, probably not- they support some pretty high-speed data on that thing. It's an amazing chip built from the ground-up, but I think it didn't catch on much for exactly the reason you described- thinking in terms of "cogs" is quite a paradigm shift

[river hatch]

I like the fact that some old-school microprocessors like the 6502 and the Z80 are still available today, and still available in a DIP package. Unfortunately, those old microprocessors require so much supporting circuitry that they're not really a competitive alternative to modern microcontrollers, even if you don't need much processing power.

[hearty karma]

I use those DIP breakout boards too

Not really that much supporting circuitry, especially if you get clever

[violet torrent]

I purchased a Z80 a few months ago to play around with, cause it's such a well known chip

[river hatch]

I grew up programming on the Apple //e (which had a 6502), so I'm partial to it. (Although I think that, objectively, the Z80 is a more powerful processor.) I still have the Apple //e and still write some code for it from time to time.

It would be fun to build some sort of project with a 6502 processor in it, but that requires ROM, RAM, IO, and address decoding logic. It's so much easier and cheaper to use a modern microcontroller instead.

[violet torrent]

I only got the Z80 because it was more available, I think I have a 6502 variant laying around already anyway. I'm planning on starting out the building with doing everything peripheral on a Pico or something similar, and slowly replacing the functionality with logic chips and other some such

[supple crypt]

If you haven't seen them, Adafruit make some little breakout boards for SMT chips that you can solder headers into: https://www.adafruit.com/category/475

[river hatch]

Yeah, I have a bunch of them. Hand-soldering SMT chips isn't too bad, as long as the pitch isn't too fine, and as long as it isn't a QFN. Still, DIP chips are nice because they're the easiest to solder, the easiest to breadboard, and they can be socketed.

[supple crypt]

Indeed

[river hatch]

I'm always amused by the photo for this breakout board, since it shows putting a TQFP-48 chip on a TQFP-32 breakout board.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/1163

[steady gulch]

like a square peg in a... different square hole

[violet torrent]

On the topic of breadboarding from earlier, I was thinking of ways to make it easier for me, and a YouTuber I just found came up with the same solution I was thinking about for bussed lines

[supple crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/magic-school-bus-seatbelts-everyone-cartoon-ms-frizzle-school-bus-gif-14737835

Was it this?

[violet torrent]

Using small PCBs to jumper the connections

[regal horizon]

I just made something similar. Using jumpers for connections too. Recently I’ve started seeing a lot of dev boards like that. When all you really want is a couple extra Gnd, 3v3 pins, or other data bus. if you can spin up a purpose built pcb it makes more sense.

[hearty karma]

I'm playing around with an 1802, which came out at a similar time, although it's less well known, it's a really interesting chip. With its whopping 16 16-bit registers, it feels more like a RISC chip, and offers many features that didn't show up again until much later.

[violet torrent]

huh! nice!

[violet torrent]

Thinking about it, if I don't want a billion bidirectional logic level converters, I'd probably have to go with a 5V microcontroller, which ultimately probably means an Arduino Mega or Giga or smth

[hearty karma]

Same...

[violet torrent]

oh well, that's not a huge issue

[violet torrent]

I should get my hands on some 5V MCU stuff for all of these TTL stuff

[teal wadi]

I guess you can get a bunch of atmega328p boards before the chips go eol

[violet torrent]

What boards use that one?

[teal wadi]

the old arduino uno did

I think the successor chip is 5v too, but isn't a DIP IC

#general-tech message

[violet torrent]

I have an Uno already I could use, just didn't think it has enough pins at the moment

bulk buys 328Ps

[teal wadi]

I mean, you probably do not want to drive the entire z80 out of an arduino

You're probably gonna get a mux to make a memory map (for the IC enable signals), an EEPROM to load the program, some SRAM, and then map some of the remaining memory space to the uno

[regal horizon]

the new Arduino Giga has some very impressive specs.

[teal wadi]

Maybe have a buffer in between too

[violet torrent]

The idea is to start with it being entirely run on an Arduino or similar, and then slowly replace functionality with ICs

[regal horizon]

To some people that might seem like going backwards away from microcontrollers but that's actually how you learn the intricacies of IC's. It's a good plan. 👍

breakout boards for IC's is another good way to do it.

which is basically the premise of the original Arudino anyway. it's just a breakout board for the 328 😉

[teal wadi]

Thankfully, most ICs you'd need to make a Z80 computer are already in DIP form

Even though they're positively ancient, they're still in production

[violet torrent]

I have a lot of the chips I already will need, I think, but I mostly want a way to have a Known Working model

For example I have 100+ 4164 chips, and a fair number of EPROMs, and a bunch of 74 logic chips

Infinite RAM on the Z80 cackles

(jk they're still very small capacity, but at least they're basically what the Z80 was made to work with)

[regal horizon]

One thing I've learned from hanging out around here is that learning how things were done with some of the original PC's from the 70's, 80's, 90's can help to see how things have scaled up and changed. Taking a step backwards to go forwards kind of thing.

[hearty karma]

I'm working on a design that uses an FRAM chip as both the RAM and ROM to speed up updating as well as reduce total chip count.

[regal horizon]

Honestly didn't know what FRAM is. Looked it up. Seems like a neat concept using higher or lower logic voltages for different operations.

The farther back you go the more likely you're going to end up diving into assembly. That's where I draw the line, no thank you. 😛

[violet torrent]

I'm wanting to learn ASM and uCode

although, technically, uCode is very CPU dependant, but I've been watching a lot of CPU recreation videos lately

[hearty karma]

The computer I learned on didn't have enough RAM to run an assembler, so I'd write my code in assembly, hand-assemble it into machine code, and key the resulting hex into the computer to run it. Tedious but a great way to learn how everything works at a low level.

[violet torrent]

as much as that sounds like pain, it also kinda sounds like fun

I'd love to try it at some point

especially since I'm planning on adding a HEX programmer to the Vambrace

[regal horizon]

what is a dream to one is a nightmare to another. wish you the best.

[hearty karma]

There's a nice description here, using the same kind of computer I learned on http://roland.cordesses.free.fr/Motorola6800MEK_4.html

Although he shortchanges the RAM, maxed out with all six 6810 128B SRAM chips, it has a princely 768B, not 640.

[teal wadi]

you can learn microcode?! I thought that was internal to the CPU, and couldn't be used externally!

[hearty karma]

I did get spoiled learning on the 6800 with its two accumulators. Switching to the cheaper ($25 vs $300 when they were new) 6502 with its single accumulator was annoying.

[teal wadi]

(In case my tone doesn't work: I am genuinely surprised and curious)

[teal wadi]

...and now you can get a 70-cent ARM chip with hundreds of general-purpose registers

[hearty karma]

Yeah, it's nuts.

[violet torrent]

It's more if I plan to make my own CPU out of TTL chips, like the SAP or jam-1, or to emulate an existing CPU, like the 6502 and the Z80

[teal wadi]

....at that point, I'd recommend learning a HDL and synthesizing one inside an FPGA

[hearty karma]

Ben Eater's series on building a CPU on breadboards is fascinating (as is his series on building a simple 6502 computer on a breadboard)

[violet torrent]

That's the SAP I was referring to there, his is a variant of the SAP theoretical model

[hearty karma]

My picture above of my project breadboarding an 1802 CPU using an Arduino as a bus analyzer is heavily based on Ben's work

Ah, didn't realize that. Cool!

[violet torrent]

The jam-1 is really interesting because it does 8-bit pipeline!

[regal horizon]

Just saw in the newsletter the new challenger board https://ilabs.se/product/challenger-rp2040-uwb/

[hearty karma]

I do play with the idea of breadboarding a simple machine based on Motorola's unusual MC14500B 1-bit CPU

[regal horizon]

I think it's designed to do long distance measurement?

[violet torrent]

I think I've seen someone make a variant of that (or a different 1 bit Motorola CPU) out of vacuum tubes

[regal horizon]

with 2 static positions you could do triangulation on a 3rd. that sounds very neat. i don't have a use case for it but i want to find one. 😛

[hearty karma]

And one day, when I crave pain and suffering, I may try breadboarding an Intel 8008, crammed into its 18-pin DIP

[violet torrent]

It's a variant because I think they modified the ALU

Internal computer architecture is fascinating

[hearty karma]

The best I've built out of vacuum tubes are some flip-flops and counters.

[violet torrent]

https://youtube.com/@weirdboyjim for the jam-1 and https://youtube.com/@UsagiElectric for vacuum tube computer (and other vintage computer stuff, it's awesome)

[teal wadi]

Next thing we know, you'll have built an EDVAC replica in your house

Fun fact: There's a gene that (used to be) named JAM-1

[icy moth]

The music gene, or maybe it’s the gene to determines if you like berries or not?

Lol

https://tenor.com/view/dad-joke-dadjoke-roasted-boom-gif-22339988

[teal wadi]

Nah, it's a cell adhesion mediator. So you could say it jam-packs cells together

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gene/50848

[violet torrent]

jam-1 in the CPU sense is james' arithmetic machine, iirc

[teal wadi]

(It actually stands for Junctional Adhesion Molecule-1)

[hearty karma]

The folks here have some wide-ranging interests and knowledge!

[regal horizon]

That's what makes this place so awesome.

[violet torrent]

i love how y'all aren't dismissive of stuff i find cool, and are usually helpful when i have gaps in my understanding for electronics stuff

TIL pure Turing machines would probably be kinda slow

[teal wadi]

As far as the memory access model is concerned, loading data from tape would be the closest we have to what Alan Turing envisioned. That's... pretty slow indeed :P

Other than that, given they're all Turing complete, I'd say all computers are "pure Turing machines"

[violet torrent]

It's the memory access I'm thinking about mostly as what delineates Turing compatible with a "pure" Turing machine

[teal wadi]

Yeah, that makes sense

[supple crypt]

To come back to this, I'm still thrown by how this would explain the difference. Obviously yeah, power = voltage * current, but the gap still seems utterly huge for what isn't even double the voltage.

2.5V * 0.035uA = 0.09
3.3V * 20uA = 66

[hearty karma]

That's only for ohmic loads: semiconductors famously have a non-linear response to voltage.

[supple crypt]

checks their IMDB

This is from the chip datasheet: https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpl5110.pdf

[hearty karma]

Something else is going on. Have you tried measuring it?

[supple crypt]

I haven't bought either yet partly because of this heh

[hearty karma]

I'm still leaning toward things being specified in different ways.

[supple crypt]

Should the extra components it's combined with be increasing the current a lot? It seems like Sparkfun used the current number from the datasheet and Adafruit have measured their board's total consumption

[hearty karma]

I haven't looked at the schematics of either board, so I can't say.

[supple crypt]

Adafruit: https://cdn-learn.adafruit.com/assets/assets/000/039/783/original/adafruit_products_schem.png?1488404279
Sparkfun: https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/a/8/0/9/1/SparkFun_TPL5110_Nano_Power_Switch.pdf

[hearty karma]

The two schematics look equivalent, I don't see other parts that would be affecting the current draw.

[teal wadi]

(Offtopic? )Question: Which software do IC corpos use to make their datasheets?

Or do they straight-up just use MS word?

[supple crypt]

I assume that'd vary a lot from company to company, though I'd imagine most have some kind of template they use

[supple crypt]

The metadata for this TI datasheet says it was produced by https://turnkey.com.au/topleaf/ and iText

[teal wadi]

oof XML-based publishing.. And I thought LaTeX was complex

:P

[supple crypt]

My Sensirion ones are actually made in Word, with my Espressif ones using LaTeX with hyperref

[teal wadi]

Can you link to said espressif datasheet? I really want to see what LaTeX can do in this context

[supple crypt]

https://www.espressif.com/sites/default/files/documentation/esp32-s2_datasheet_en.pdf

[teal wadi]

O_O It doesn't look like LaTeX at all haha

I'm used to them looking like this
https://s3.amazonaws.com/libapps/accounts/109251/images/Screen_Shot_2017-01-06_at_4.18.48_PM.png

[supple crypt]

I thought the whole thing with LaTeX was that you can do very fancy things with it

[inner linden]

Yes, the big appeal of LaTeX is... brace yourself... equations.

[teal wadi]

1. Nice pun
2. TBH, the math rendering in LaTeX is superb

[jaunty socket]

is gpt-j of any use for finding information?

like would it tell me what part to use to do X on an Arduino?

does this looks dangerous? sure does to me

[river hatch]

Another microcontroller that can run at 5V is the ATSAMC series of ARM microcontrollers from Microchip. They are very similar to the ATSAMD series, which only run at 3.3V. Strangely, there are tons and tons of boards for the ATSAMD, but virtually none for the ATSAMC. I would have thought that the ATSAMC would be more popular among makers, since it can run at 5V.

I've been meaning to play around with the ATSAMC (by putting it on one of those generic SMT breakout boards we talked about, and then breadboarding it) but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

[snow light]

Cypress PSoC5 is 3.3v but can run at least half of its I/O at another voltage. They're sadly stupid expensive/unobtanium right now tho

[river hatch]

400W is a small space heater, so you could definitely start a fire with that. 60V would give you a nice jolt, but I don't know how likely it is to be lethal. (My guess would be "usually not", unless you have a pacemaker or something.) Normally I think 48V is considered the cutoff for "safe" low voltage.

[jaunty socket]

That was my impression, cheap, but it's not for the beginner and they expect you to know what to do about it

Also giving 10 to 24V to it doesn't seem beginner level either and not very standard

My impression is that they sell bare-bones stuff without handholding or nice to have features like adafruit

[river hatch]

Yeah, I'm not familiar with that website, but generally Adafruit and Sparkfun are going to be more beginner-friendly.

12V and 24V are pretty much the standard for LED strips. (12V is most common, but 24V is not uncommon.)

[jaunty socket]

not just beginner-friendly but well designed

It's like paying a friend who build pcs for a living

and then they move to another country and you lose contact with them. Something break and you look at a youtube tutorial

And everything is labeled, at the correct place, without any weird choices (like using 4 IDE instead of two PCIE) etc

I try to explain the adafruit advantage to peoples sometimes but I just can't find the right words because "it just works as it's supposed to" is meaningless for total beginner

[supple crypt]

I was going to post a link to a 3.7-6V -> 400KV module I stumbled on recently, but I remembered the Adafruit Discord has some rules about not posting likely dangerous stuff

[supple crypt]

Unless I've misunderstood it, surely the 400W is going to be what it can supply to connected stuff? Though yeah, 60V is a bit high.

[jaunty socket]

dangerous ? I mean P still equal V*I or that changed ?

I hope P is still V*I dont want to relearn all of this

[supple crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/big-bird-sesame-street-yellow-beak-bird-gif-16615929

[jaunty socket]

My point anyway is if you mutiply the voltage by 100000

to keep the same power you divide the amp by 100000

So it's like having an hose connected to the ocean instead of a pond

but the output is 100000 smaller than before

so actually one drop comes out every century vs before

isnt that concept called van de graaf generator anyway ? 😄

that is inoffensive afaik since they let preschoolers touch them

[river hatch]

Yeah, it can supply up to 400W. I'm just saying that if you have a short, or if your wire gauge is too small, that's a lot of power that can produce a lot of heat.

[jaunty socket]

400W would be like 60V*6.5A or something, they say above 8A you need a fan/heatsink

wish they made leds you can power from your body static since they eat voltage

And 50000 V would be good for a lot of leds 🤣

[river hatch]

Yeah, fluorescent tubes are better for powering with a van de graaf generator, or by standing underneath power lines.

[river hatch]

For the tabletop van de graaf generators, they let kids touch them. Although at the Boston Museum of Science, they have a room-sized van de graaf generator, and there the operator is inside a Faraday cage for protection.

[jaunty socket]

Yeah I love when they tell you it's not dangerous but the hospital machine is a lead bunker the furniture including the bathroom are all metal the examination room has a 12 inch thick door with a ship wheel lock and they stand in a room with 1 feet of rolled steel armor

Ill be radioactive for the next 299000 years because of this 😦

[river hatch]

Radiation therapy?

[jaunty socket]

They just wanted to make sure I didnt have something that would need that

but yeah diagnosis with radiation

[random ravine]

*grumble* Of course it works better when you plug it in *shrug*

[jaunty socket]

WHat is an adafruit Bluefruit S60 from 2013 ?

[supple crypt]

..are we playing Jeopardy?

[jaunty socket]

no, adafruit posted that product for FCC approval in 2013

but surprisngly the schematic/pcb file isnt available

So I supposed it was before they were open source or something and it's like a discontinued antique

It's just so bizarre vs what adafruit usually fdo looks like an OEM product for integration in larger one

[river hatch]

I did some Googling, and it looks like the Bluefruit S60 was also known as the Bluefruit EZ-Link, and was a module that was used in a couple of different products from Adafruit, now discontinued:

https://www.adafruit.com/product/1588
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-bluefruit-ez-link-shield

[jaunty socket]

Seems so easy to pair it

wish more modern MCus with bluetooth was that easy

[hearty karma]

In my experience, Bluetooth is never easy

[river hatch]

I'm contemplating a project where I would need to send a small amount of data (three bytes, maybe 60 times a second) from one point to another wirelessly. Right now I'm contemplating Bluetooth LE, RFM69, and XBee. Or possibly even infrared? (10-12 feet, line of sight) Not sure which is going to be best.

[supple crypt]

Wired or battery power?

[woeful whale]

or NRF24

[jaunty socket]

most important question is what happens if some of the data is wrong

if so you will need a crc and both ways communications

[supple crypt]

Just Googled and found some posts on the forum, seemingly it's down to the LED:
https://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?p=857793#p857793

[regal horizon]

Sounds like once per 16ms. Wifi would be the obvious choice. It can stream more data faster than bluetooth or rfm. Don't know about IR.

IR can pulse that fast with PWM but IR generally doesn't have CRC. Transmission time between packets is slow with the RFM because it switches between send or receive, not asynchronously, and enabling CRC slows it down even more. Wifi is the obvious choice.

RFM is good for projects that take seconds, not milliseconds, that's just my opinion from the behavior I experienced with it so far.

The timing window for RFM listening for a packet between sends I think would be too short. If you shorten the listen window too much it won't receive any packets.

[novel ridge]

The ESP-NOW protocol could work if you're using microcontrollers in the ESP32 family. I've found it to be pretty fast and reliable, and it's fairly simple to use.

[snow light]

That works with the 8266 as well but I can’t remember if they’re interoperable

[novel ridge]

Oh looks like it is 😄 https://www.espressif.com/en/solutions/low-power-solutions/esp-now

[snow light]

Oh and it can do it over BLE too! That’s cool

[river hatch]

Wired on the receive end. The transmit end could be either wired or battery, but if it's battery, then battery life/size isn't really an issue. Basically, power is not an issue.

[supple crypt]

I haven't tried ESP-NOW for such constant sends but it might work for that. I have some CP code you can play with if you've got a couple of ESP32 devices running CP, and we've got a thread for it in the #help-with-circuitpython channel.

https://docs.circuitpython.org/en/latest/shared-bindings/espnow/index.html

[river hatch]

All I have is 16-17 bits of state on the transmitter, that I want to keep as up-to-date as possible on the receiver. Rounding up to 3 bytes gives me 7-8 bits of checksum, which is probably enough, although I could add another byte if necessary. Communication is strictly unidirectional. There is no point in retransmission, because the retransmitted data would be out of date, and the next scheduled transmission would bring the new data.

[novel ridge]

Oh cool, I didn't know it was implemented in CP!

[supple crypt]

Yeah I think this might work okay for you, though my understanding of what bits equate to is limited especially when I probably should sleep

[supple crypt]

Yeah, pretty recently, but my testing so far indicates that using it with another device acting as a full WiFi relay, it should improve IoT sensor node battery life by 4-5x or more.

[cold pebble]

ESP-NPOW packets can be up to 250 bytes, and you could split longer messages across multiple packets

[supple crypt]

Sure you could buy a huge lithium ion battery pack for each node, or you could buy a QT Py ESP32S2 and plug it into USB, and then use 3 x 2000mAh NiMHs and a TPL5110 timer and get around 215 days of battery life (readings every 5 minutes).

[river hatch]

I've just had bad luck with using WiFi for real-time applications. WiFi is great most of the time, but then it will go out to lunch for a second or two, or sometimes it will disconnect entirely, and require a power cycle to reconnect.

I could tolerate 50% packet loss if it was random, but losing connectivity for a second or more would be a serious problem.

[supple crypt]

Yeah, it's not proper WiFi is the thing, no router needed.

[cold pebble]

ESP-NOW doesn't connect to an AP, it just blurts out a packet, and the receiver listens for it

[supple crypt]

I think it somewhat borrows some WiFi things internally, but it doesn't work on connections, just yeah, it basically just yells out data

[cold pebble]

it's pretty speedy, the delivery confirmations come back in a couple milliseconds or usually less

[river hatch]

Yeah, that sounds more like what I need. But was responding to DJDevon3, who I think was suggesting proper WiFi?

[supple crypt]

ahh sorry, very much need to sleep

[river hatch]

Good night!

[supple crypt]

but also need to decide on things to order haha

Why can't Pimoroni just have all the things I want in stock, darn pirate ninjas..

here's my super simple sending code, would have deep sleep if I wasn't just using it to test the receiver code right now

My receive code is more complex because it's taking the data, grabbing the sensor values, then sending them to IO, but it does hopefully explain how to get the encryption/MAC address side of things set up, as ESP-NOW is a bit of a targeted yell of data.

Be aware it's a bit buggy right now and is only in the CP 8.1 beta, but I think there's a reasonable chance it might work for this. What's the data it's sending coming from?

[river hatch]

Basically I have a wired game controller (from the 1980s era) and I want to make it wireless. So the state is just a matter of what buttons are pressed. Needs to be pretty responsive, or the game will be unplayable.

[novel ridge]

I literally just used ESP-NOW for this exact purpose a few days ago lol

it worked great

[supple crypt]

Nice, I wasn't sure about the latency

[cold pebble]

@novel ridge what packet rates are you achieving? at what wifi speed?

[novel ridge]

Those are great questions, that I don't know the answers to!

[cold pebble]

I'm doing ACKs, so each node sends and receives, which complicates things

[novel ridge]

Ah yes, that would. I'm only sending very small packets (on button press/release, and when a rotary encoder's value changes) and it's not catastrophic if one is missed, though anecdotally I haven't had any issues with missed packeets

[cold pebble]

I think there's a bug (hopkapi discovered), you can only set rate up to 36Mbps, but should be able to go to 54Mbps, though I don't know if rate affects error rates

[novel ridge]

Oh that's interesting. I didn't realize that was something that was adjustable

I just used a modification of one of the ESP-NOW examples in Arduino lol

[cold pebble]

you can collect send and read stats (send success and failure counts, and read success and failure counts print(f"send=[{e.send_success} {e.send_failure}] read=[{e.read_success} {e.read_failure}]")), but there is a slight delay (microseconds to a couple of milliseconds) before the data is available on send https://gist.github.com/anecdata/f46a1d07add5fc60cfbcf42dc7be6528?permalink_comment_id=4524207#gistcomment-4524207

ah, Arduino, same concept though

[novel ridge]

Oh yeah I see what you did there

[cold pebble]

if wifi rate isn't specified, it will be 1Mbps

[novel ridge]

(sorry I am on my Macbook wiith the terrible butterefly keyswitches lol, hence the typos)

[supple crypt]

Just had a thought, do you think I could solder lil' 2.54mm terminal blocks onto this breakout board? Not sure if it'd fit, but I'd rather not have to breadboard + jumper everything.https://www.adafruit.com/product/3435

[river hatch]

Probably? I guess you'd just have to try it to see if the terminal blocks fit.

[supple crypt]

I think they'd fit horizontally but not sure if there's enough space the other way hmmm

I guess otherwise I could solder wires to the vias but not sure how well that'd go/how durable it'd be hmmm

[river hatch]

Looks like the 5-pin 2.54mm terminal block is out of stock right now:
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2139

[supple crypt]

Yeah, I'm not in the US so I think I'd have to get 2 of the 2 terminal ones (I don't need the delay pin): https://coolcomponents.co.uk/products/screw-terminals-2-54mm-pitch-2-pin?_pos=5&_sid=49d808309&_ss=r

[cold pebble]

they won't fit side-by-side, like 3+2≠5

[supple crypt]

dreams of WAGO PCB terminal blocks

[supple crypt]

Nope, but with a spare pin in the middle, that shouldn't be an issue

[river hatch]

I've done that sort of thing before. It's considered "less professional", but I haven't had any problem with it. I recommend using wire with silicone insulation. (Otherwise, the soldering iron burns off some of the insulation, which might make it more likely to short if the wires are jerked around at weird angles.)

[supple crypt]

Yeah I'm a big silicone wire fan, though I wish the main makery stores in the UK would sell it and not just in super super thin kinds

So looking forward to the EU banning PVC

[river hatch]

I've found Amazon and AliExpress to be good sources for silicone wire.

The only thing I don't like about silicone wire is that it only comes in stranded wire. Sometimes I would like solid-core silicone wire, but I don't think it exists.

[supple crypt]

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/single-conductor-cables-hook-up-wire/474?s=N4IgjCBcoBwdIDGUBmBDANgZwKYBoQB7KAbRABYAGAJjnJAKtsogF0CAHAFyhAGUuAJwCWAOwDmIAL4EY1KKGSR02fEVIVKAVjAA2LSHYhuvASInSCAWnkIlQgK5rikMgdZSZIXQpDCAJrxWYCwMxjyQIGFcAJ4cOLxoWMieQA

The Great Search music plays

[supple crypt]

I guess I'm unsure about the strain relief side of things and how it's actually held in place. I dealt with that with my QT Py by just covering the two wires on the bottom with a blob of Blu-tack.

[river hatch]

Solder alone can be pretty strong, although I haven't tried jerking the wires too hard, either. It probably depends on how much stress it's going to be subjected to.

[supple crypt]

I mean hopefully not much...

but I'd like proper wires because they're so easy to work with for different stuff, especially with WAGOs (221 inlines are love/life)

[violet torrent]

should have added a rotary encoder to this board but eh, hindsight

[rugged field]

i just got the DVI RP2040 Feather, the Proto Board Feather and some much needed storage boxes!

[violet torrent]

Immediately I get a Hackaday article saying: You technically can use a Pico for 5V stuff

(it's not the best idea but you can)

[teal wadi]

It's funny how these things progress though -- when I was doing microcontroller stuff a few years ago, 5V was the standard. It seems the community has moved on to lower voltages now

[snow light]

The I/O on ESP8266 and ESP32 are apparently 5V tolerant too, but they said they took that out of the datasheet because people kept trying to power them with 5V and were blowing them up 🙄

[regal horizon]

I think a lot of that is actually determined by the chip manufacturers. Engineers can only roll out designs with existing chips. Adafruit is definitely responsible for making 3.3V logic popular, and in turn more chip manufacturers started creating 3.3V level chips from their 5V designs.

Some of the first LED strips were 12V. Going from 5V logic to 12V isn't a big leap, it's harder with 3.3V to 12V.

Then they came out with 5V LED strips which made it easier.

There were a variety of factors. Today 3.3V is easiest to work with due to I2C/SPI chip compatibility but since LED strips and some sensors are designed for 5V there's still a place for 5V boards.

The Qt Py and Scorpio for example can do 5V. Right tool for the right job. Now there is a huge lineup of boards. You can find one for almost any project goal you have in mind.

[delicate quarry]

Saying adafruit popularized 3.3v logic is giving Adafruit too much credit, in my opinion. The reduction of logic level voltage simply follows the trends and development of semiconductor manufacturing. As chip density increased to meet demand for more logic in smaller packages, the reduction in logic voltage was a natural response to concerns regarding heat dissipation and switching speed.

[hearty karma]

Many chips include protection diodes on the data pins, connected to the supply voltage. So if inputs are more than a diode drop above the supply voltage, the diodes try to clamp it. Making inputs 5V tolerant requires extra effort.

I would like to figure out how to use a 3.3V FPGA with 5V logic, which is likely going to involve level shifters, along with extra FPGA pins and logic to drive the direction inputs to the shifters.

[regal horizon]

I honestly believe Adafruit did actually help drive most of the microcontroller industry to 3v3 logic. I'm not saying they're the only reason. I'm saying they made it popular. Adafruit does set trends. Neopixels is a popular term now for example. Other manufacturers are using the feather format.

[river hatch]

Yeah, I really wish there were FPGAs with 5V IO. It would make it so much easier to use FPGAs in retrocomputing projects.

[hearty karma]

Agreed. While there are 5V CPLDs available, they are sometimes not capacious enough. I'm toying with the idea of making an FPGA board with on-board level shifters and a DIP pinout for breadboarding/retrocomputing purposes.

If you count that as a "chip", it would be simple enough to build a 3-chip computer. If that computer were 1802 based, it could leverage the 1802's DMA capabilities to produce black and white video by just adding a counter, latch, and lookup table (all of which could fit easily in an FPGA)

[delicate quarry]

Ah, in that case, sure. There were a lot of other microcontrollers and maker-focused hardware that contributed to that shift, and I’d argue STM32 was probably one of the first with their discovery boards.

[jaunty socket]

Ive seen books saying that 3.3 and 5 were standard logic voltage from way before adafruit

[river hatch]

Yeah, I should probably look into CPLDs. I haven't really seen CPLD breakout boards the way I have seen FPGA boards (such as TinyFPGA BX). And although some FPGAs have open-source toolchains, I think all CPLD toolchains are closed-source? (Neither of these are deal-breakers, but they are a couple of reasons CPLDs haven't been on my radar as much.)

[snow light]

As a software engineer I found it difficult to get started with FPGAs and CPLDs. The Cypress PSoC5 is an ARM microcontroller with a small CPLD on-board, and their tools make it really easy to integrate the two. Their IDE is, sadly, closed-source and Windows-only, but I found it quite nice and intuitive. (I promise I don't work for Cypress, I just found their stuff pretty easy to get started with)

[jaunty socket]

one example i quickly found 2003 PIC 16F628 is 3.3V

that imply there are 3.3V PLCs that support it and adafruit was founded in 2008

[river hatch]

I found the TinyFPGA BX to be fairly easy to get started with, at least in terms of tools. The one thing that was difficult about getting the TinyFPGA BX up and running is that it wasn't compatible with my computer's USB port. I had to insert a hub in between to get the TinyFPGA BX to work.

[river hatch]

I don't think anyone was claiming that Adafruit invented 3.3V logic levels. I think the question was just to what degree they contributed to the shift from 5V to 3.3V as the predominant logic level for maker projects.

In many ways, the industry has already moved on to 1.8V logic levels, but we don't see that showing up in the maker space yet.

[jaunty socket]

djdevon straight up said a major reason for it was adafruit

also dont forget the industry is also plcs and the military stuff most of us will never see

and our tiny hobby market gets the worst ancient stuff

that is why one cant get a pi4 for instance...

[river hatch]

The general chip shortage is why one can't get a Pi4.

[jaunty socket]

or you cant get a cell phone sized amoled because 15 million $ minimum order

so we just get surplus nobody cares about at the bottom of the pile

[native hare]

what the benefit of lower voltage

For logic

[snow light]

Ah yeah, I've had to do that too- I have a couple USB2 hubs sitting around for that exact purpose. I'll have to check out the TinyFPGA, they look neat

[jaunty socket]

iif it actually become available like drones and radios they do a tons of laws so muggles cant actually use it

stay where you belong with your 1W radio or face 10 years in jail

but if you have a company feel free to use the 500W ones

[teal wadi]

Well, one factor is that (assuming Ohm's law, which is a pretty big assumption) P (power)=V**2/R, so the lower the voltage, the lower the heat dissipation and power consumption. Hem also talked about switching speed, and I'll admit I'm not knowledgeable enough to discuss that

[hearty karma]

You're right there. I bought some surplus 5V CPLDs on the cheap, but have been unable to use them as there is not a toolchain available.

[jaunty socket]

but that comes at a cost too

lower voltage = cant tolerate as many voltage droppers

5V cost is already that it cant move more than 1 servo directly

[hearty karma]

Basically it's possible to make smaller, faster, and more power efficient chips with lower voltage.

[jaunty socket]

lower voltage usually have more issues with noise

if you are going to use a couple of transistors 3.3v wont do either

a lot of them drop 0.5/0.7V and now you have 2.8V for the rest

good luck if you add a diode and a led...

[hearty karma]

While it can be tricky to properly switch MOSFETs with 3.3V, there are logic level MOSFETs available. And 3.3V is plenty for a bipolar transistor, even the 1.4V double B-E drop of a Darlington pair.

On the upside, you can tolerate a lot of voltage drops on the power supply side, which is handy.

[jaunty socket]

npn type bipolar silicone transistor

also in some era it seemed the way to solve any problems was to pump as much voltage in it as possible

audio not clear enough? no problem out 1600V in it!!!

[hearty karma]

My vacuum tube circuits generally run on a few hundred volts and the audio does sound amazing.

[jaunty socket]

is there an electronic tester that would tell me if id get a dangerous shock touching something or the metal case or something?

cause i was told before that measuring continuity or voltage was not a proper method for that

would be ideal if past a certain number it just showed a skull

[main hemlock]

rev 5v vs 3.3v: I think it is interesting that Arduino is touting the Arduino R4 as being 5V. The Renesas chip on the board is 5v, but is very similar in spec to a SAMD21 (which is 3.3V, as we know). Arduino has had the Arduino Zero for years but apparently does not see it as the follow-on to the classic Arduino. And there are also availability and maybe subsidy considerations here.

[main hemlock]

you could measure DC or AC voltage between the thing and some ground, not sure why someone told you measuring voltage was "not proper"

[hearty karma]

Yes, they're called "non contact voltage testers" and the like.

[main hemlock]

typically (only?) for AC, right?

[hearty karma]

Right. DC ones are available, but less common.

[jaunty socket]

i have an alarm clock that buzz connected to main and i tried to use a continuity tester on each butto. and the screen to see if id get a shock touching any of them

and was told without one of the probe touching the mains my test was useless 😦

i usually grab it by the screen & buttons on top

[main hemlock]

you don't want to use a continuity tester on a powered thing.

but I would think the buttons are plastic

does it work at all?

[jaunty socket]

yeah but part of my finger go a bit inside in the bottom of the button

[main hemlock]

the buzzing could be due to a failed capacitor inside, or the transformer (if it has one) becoming delaminated, or other reasons.

[jaunty socket]

and there could be enough voltage to spark at the bottom and give me a huge shock

not sure if its a buzzing or vibration very hard to tell

[main hemlock]

i haven't seen a metal cased alarm clock in a very long time

[jaunty socket]

but its strongest where the power cord plug internally

no it is plastic

but enough voltage can go throught the plastic

like when a multimeter blows up despite being isolated

[main hemlock]

it is not going to give you a shock unless there are metal exposed parts.

the plastic should be thick enough to protect against mains voltage

[jaunty socket]

i get a shock daily from my light switch because of this
..

why wouldnt my alarm clock shock me throught the plastic too?

[main hemlock]

that sounds like static electricity

you get a shock from the plastic switch lever?

[jaunty socket]

but only happen at the bottom of the light switch when its going down to the off position and my finger touch the metal at the base of the switch from the enclosure

it even sparks sometimes

[main hemlock]

I think you should replace that switch or check the wiring

[jaunty socket]

all light switches i ever used do this...

im just very static i guess...

happens mostly at the end of the day rarely in the morning

anyway this is what i fear when i touch my alarm clock buttons or glass

[hearty karma]

I used to carry around an NE-2 to discharge static with a pleasant little flash of light.

[jaunty socket]

i was using a cellphone once and touched the bus metal pole where you hold yourself and the cell phone went off immediately and wouldnt power on for a good 20 minutes i guess im very static...

ok 😦 i guess i should go to a science museum and try a van de graaf generator thing if it blows up ill know the problem is me

[river hatch]

I guess there are four levels of toolchain, from worst to best:

1. No toolchain is available at all
2. Toolchain costs money
3. Toolchain is "free as in beer" (gratis)
4. Toolchain is open source (libre)

and then a separate dimension is which platforms it is available for. (I could run the toolchain in a Windows VM, but it would be preferable to run it natively on Linux.) I guess that's one reason I prefer an open source toolchain, besides just for its own sake: open source toolchains are more likely to be cross-platform.

[jaunty socket]

For me it's very similar but I'd say he biggest criteria is if I can easily carry it on my raspberry pi 4 because a laptop is too big to carry/use in most makerspace I go too.

[gloomy mango]

Get a ThinkPad X220/X230.. Small, light.. enough power to get the job done.

[jaunty socket]

Yeah it's that simple money grows on trees...

[gloomy mango]

Well, yeah.... It does, mostly. 😛

[jaunty socket]

spent 600$ on electronics including 50$ of lost components. If I bought a 1300$ laptop just for this I'd spend more on electronics than I have spent so far in my life

[gloomy mango]

The cotton plant isn't so much of a tree, but it's pretty close. 😄

[jaunty socket]

And it would still probably not run the windows-only tools properly

[gloomy mango]

Hang on

[jaunty socket]

money been made of plastic/textiles for a while

[gloomy mango]

Where do you get $1300 for an X220/X230 ?

I paid £95 (inc shipping) for an X220t.

blinks

[jaunty socket]

oh lol didnt notice the cnet article was from 2012

[gloomy mango]

Yuh huh........ lol

[jaunty socket]

I already have a 2012 laptop that is the problem

too big and only 4GB of ram

can only extended it to 8GB

Tried to install windows 10 on it and got death threats from microsoft

[gloomy mango]

Client: HexChat 2.16.0 • OS: LinuxMint "vera" 21.1 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2520M CPU @ 2.50GHz (2.29GHz) • Memory: Physical: 7.4 GiB Total (4.9 GiB Free) Swap: 957.0 MiB Total (957.0 MiB Free) • Storage: 35.0 GB / 228.6 GB (193.6 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family DRAM Controller • Uptime: 3d 1h 35m 11s

Huummm.. Missing some disk space. 😛

Local Storage: total: 1.13 TiB used: 49.43 GiB (4.3%)
ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST1000LM035-1RK172 size: 931.51 GiB
ID-2: /dev/sdb model: SSDSC2BB120G7R size: 111.79 GiB
ID-3: /dev/sdc vendor: Kingston model: SMS200S3120G size: 111.79 GiB

That's better.

[jaunty socket]

mostly would need to run fritzing/solidworks and eagle

1st priority would be solidworks

[gloomy mango]

I have no idea about any of those.

[jaunty socket]

but even my hard-core gaming pc isnt specced enough for solidworks so I doubt a 2012 laptop will do

[gloomy mango]

Not my bag

Yeah... having a definitive purpose for the machine does help guide towards an acceptable spec.

For me, I just need a Linux machine that can do the usual desktop Linux junk and run simple VMs.

[delicate quarry]

Ew, solidworks is brutal on a laptop.

My company barely wants to pay for those.

[gloomy mango]

I could try it out on my server, with 80GB RAM.... but if it means installing Windows, I'll have to pass. 😛

[river hatch]

One time, I asked Digi-Key for a spreadsheet of all the parts I'd purchased over a 5-year period. The grand total was $4438.01. That's not even all my Digi-Key purchases, since I've been buying for more than 5 years. And it doesn't count what I've spent at Adafruit, Sparkfun, Mouser, or others. Electronics is an expensive hobby!

[jaunty socket]

yeah , but I dont really want to spend (expect to make enclosures/casings with solidworks) because I feel I dont have enough enough knowledge for the more expensive things

Like an fpga they are cool but unless Ive been using an emulator for a year I cant justify getting one

[gloomy mango]

FPGA can be pretty cheap.. if you want one to run, like.. a Z80 core. 😛

[jaunty socket]

In the expensive things though Id probably get a flir lepton with a flir board before any of this since I always wanted to see things my eyes cant see

or a chip used for microscopes

where as an fpga seems more useful for peoples like fermi or newton or the curies etc

[gloomy mango]

I do have a cheapo FPGA.. which would run a Z80, or 8086.

Just never got around to using it.

#lazy

[jaunty socket]

I mean like they seem useful for a lot of calculation

[teal wadi]

Client: HexChat 2.16.0
👀

[jaunty socket]

but Im not much of a math/hard science person

[teal wadi]

Can you actually connect to discord over IRC?

[jaunty socket]

no

there's no irc anywhere in discord it's custom propriertary system

but fun fact gamespy app chat had irc in it back then

[teal wadi]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some sort of unofficial bridge somewhere somehow

[jaunty socket]

they would get so annoyed when I used mirc to connect to it after I sniffed the server adress packets 😄

[gloomy mango]

I'm using IRC on my laptop, so easy copy/paste.

[jaunty socket]

Or to put it in a nice way. Discord is kinda irc without being slapped a bit with a large trout and without ctcps version 🤣

[random ravine]

There's an IRC bridge for almost everything.

[gloomy mango]

You can easily bridge IRC to Discord.. Pine64 does it.

[random ravine]

https://xkcd.com/1782/

xkcd: Team Chat

2078: He announces that he's finally making the jump from screen+irssi to tmux+weechat.

[teal wadi]

Ah, I see! If you don't mind me asking, which servers are you on? libera.chat?

[gloomy mango]

I'll be on IRC until I die, or it does.

[teal wadi]

I'm curious what the landscape looks like nowadays

[jaunty socket]

Im interested in that

so sick of seing discord ads

[gloomy mango]

Yup, Libera.. after Deadnode went and did the dead thing.

[native hare]

id still use IRC if anyone was on it

[gloomy mango]

Libera is still pretty busy.

[jaunty socket]

isnt freenode still full of peoples ?

[teal wadi]

freenode is dead afaik

[gloomy mango]

Deadnode is dead.

[native hare]

Freenode had ownership change I think

[gloomy mango]

Yes, stolen.

[jaunty socket]

was so much better when lilo was on it

[gloomy mango]

Lilo was displaced by grub. 😛

[jaunty socket]

no lilo the founder of linpeople which became freenode etc

[gloomy mango]

😄

[jaunty socket]

he died when coming back from a conference and being hit by a car

[gloomy mango]

Ouch

[jaunty socket]

and that irc network went downhill fast after that because of an admin succession war etc

[gloomy mango]

I just about recall lilo.

But, yeah... Deadnode is deader than a-line flairs with pockets in the knees.

Real shame.

*real sham.

[jaunty socket]

with lilo you knew what to expect but after with the various admins some were power trippy some had high tolerance you never knew

[teal wadi]

Most of the communities migrated, didn't they?

[jaunty socket]

I remember that wikipedia channel said to not log the channel

so Id post an ascii of wood logs in a forest and got banned every so often 🤣

[gloomy mango]

Yes, rightly so.

[jaunty socket]

bash dot org was great too

except when someone posted what you said on it

[gloomy mango]

Ohh, I'm sure I've been on there more than a few times. 😛

[random ravine]

Try asking Marc not to log from their model 15. :)

[jaunty socket]

Wish that discord had something like *** kattni sets mode: +b MulhorandEmperor#1766*!@.*

[gloomy mango]

Safe travels! o/

[jaunty socket]

at least on irc we could says our last goodbye when being disciplined 🤣

[gloomy mango]

😛

So... back off work Sunday morning.

Think I might finally take the time to play with my server.

[main hemlock]

Sounds like your carpeting and maybe your insulating shoes 🙂

[jaunty socket]

Havent had a carpet for a milenia

because of the need for a hoover to clean it vs a cheap 5$ broom and a couple spray of cleaners

[main hemlock]

wool clothes?

[outer brook]

Some times of the year I'm a better capacitor than others. Not sure why or if it's maybe in my head.

[jaunty socket]

I had to give away my cat once because of my static

I wrote about it before in here

[gloomy mango]

I once gave Beau a static shock to his nose.. He wouldn't come near me for hours. 😂

[jaunty socket]

yeah... same for mine but several accidental shocks even with sparks and my cat feared me more and more (even if cat fur is the biggest producer of static known in the universe - but try to explain that to a cat)

So it seemed best that I gave it a new life with another h00man and I gave it away

[gloomy mango]

Personally, I'd much rather solve the static issue.

[jaunty socket]

I couldn't find any reason for it, no carpet, I never used slippers, just electrical incompatibility I guess

[gloomy mango]

I get horrendous static charge when I wear my work boots.

[jaunty socket]

It was white and gray so I named it silver because I read a book about most common cat names and misread slippers as silver

I opened my defective headset but it was entombed in textiles and no external screws and inside it's a miniature 1975 style circuit

like I don't even think there is even a chip or a modern transistor in there

really weird

It's USB and they made it really durable so I'm at a loss to explain this

[random ravine]

I run a humidifier to reduce static issues.

[jaunty socket]

so that is why headset are 40$, 1970s tech inside the only circuit is a usb converter around a dime sized magnet and a coil of copper with around 10 windings around the copper "paper" around the magnet

not even caps for filtering

[violet torrent]

The multiplexed bar LEDs are cool but are really annoying to use

[hearty karma]

Which, like these? https://www.ebay.com/itm/154784514406

[violet torrent]

https://www.adafruit.com/product/1719

apparently Adafruit has a backpack for it

[hearty karma]

That does simplify things, but you can also run them with a dozen I/O pins (or port expanders, shift registers, etc.) with current limiting resistors.

[violet torrent]

What I wish I could do is just... give it a 12 bit value, and a number from 0 to 3, and it gives me that 12 bit value on the LED

But I keep having issues wrapping my head around what logic I'd need for it

[hearty karma]

Jobs like that I like to push off to LED driver chips that take care of the multiplexing, timing, dimming, addressing, etc. for me

Basically if you were going to implement (PWM, there are other options) dimming with an MCU, you'd have one loop that scanned over the array and turned on the LEDs, then another loop within that that turned the individual LEDs off again after a time proportional to their desired brightness had elapsed.

[midnight mango]

Does anyone here use the MHP30 mini hot plate, and would you mind popping the heater off and confirming the heating element resistance is not 0.3 Ohms? One GitHub issue says 5.6 Ohms but I want to double check.

I think mine shorted out after a single cycle… can’t find anywhere to buy a replacement either so maybe it’s just a pretty paperweight now.

[verbal aspen]

The user manual says it runs on an 20V, 3A power supply, so I'm pretty sure 0.3 ohms wouldn't work well... it'd pull 60A at that voltage. I'd believe 5.6 ohms, give or take some PWMing and temperature-varying resistance.

[midnight mango]

Yeah for sure... I guess the question is more about replacement parts, but I'm just in denial that the thing died after one use. It was really handy for about 5 minutes.

[woeful whale]

Maybe you got a defective unit

Bc there's no way it would have shorted like that unless there is some defect

[leaden trout]

I'm trying to figure out a control scheme for a John Deere turbocharger actuator. Pin out is 12v power, ground, 12v pwm, and a 5v "uart" pin.

12v PWM duty cycle controls the actuators rotation. I'm guessing the 5V uart relays information from the actuator... Perhaps reported position, faults etc

I have a logic analyzer arriving this weekend; any guesses as to what kind of communication protocol this 5V pin could use?

[hearty karma]

UART stands for "universal asynchronous receiver/transmitter", so likely asynchronous serial.

[leaden trout]

I thought UART was multiple pins?

Or wait I'm confusing that with the ol' serial plug

[hearty karma]

Yes, one of the most well known standards for serial data was RS-232, which specified a 25-pin connector. The later TIA-232 standard allowed a 9-pin connector as an alternate. However, serial data just needs two pins (signal and ground) for one-directional communication. My first computer actually uses 1/4 stereo phone jacks as serial connectors.

[leaden trout]

Haha that's pretty neat

I guess a case of retrofitting existing connection form factors for your application

I'm assuming this is one direction since the actual control signal is the PWM (weird that it's 12V instead of 5v). I've heard of a "calibration procedure" but I'm assuming that takes place in the John Deere ECU where it compares the commanded position with what the controller is reporting over UART

[hearty karma]

It does seem an odd lashup.

[lost lily]

Is it almost always better to do high-side current sensing?

(I'm probably going to be using something like this: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4226)

[verbal aspen]

It's more convenient because you get a voltage measurement too, so you can calculate power easily.

[hearty karma]

I normally do low-side current sensing, as I don't need a floating amplifier and level translation.

[regal horizon]

If you combine EdKeyes and madbodgers responses they basically give you a pro/con for each use case scenario. Good stuff. 👍

[supple crypt]

Might have missed what you're using it for, though if it's just overall project power measurement, you might want to look at the PPK2

[lost lily]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think I need something that overkill lol

(I'm trying to build a dc power supply basically, with screen and rotary encoders to adjust voltage and max current, etc. )

[outer brook]

The power of a motor is T * (omega). Is this a dot product?

[verbal aspen]

Technically, yes, but something would be mechanically weird if torque and angular velocity were not parallel.

[outer brook]

What about opposite?

Does that create negative power?

[verbal aspen]

In the opposite case you have a generator instead of a motor, yes.

[outer brook]

Ah ok

Thx

[lost lily]

I'm trying to control resistance, and I found the AD5290. (https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD5290.pdf) I'm trying to parse the datasheet and it says:

+20 V to +30 V single-supply operation
±10 V to ±15 V dual-supply operation

I'm only going to be controlling between 0-30V, so is it fine? It's going to be in "single-supply" mode since there aren't any negative voltages so will being lower than 20V work fine? I'm assuming it wouldn't break anything to go below 20V...

[hearty karma]

I believe that's referring to the supply voltage. The signal voltage should be able to range from the negative supply voltage to the positive supply voltage.

[lost lily]

That would make more sense lol

Thanks

Hopefully I don't end up breaking these as well >.> ($6.50 a piece 😬)

[hearty karma]

I still think there's an easier way, but I'm not sure what it is (my current guess is a hybrid voltage divider)

[lost lily]

I'm currently trying to control a voltage regulator which uses a potentiometer in the feedback loop

[supple crypt]

Am I right to assume that other than the two connectors on the bottom of it and the Stemma QT port, the MagTag doesn't have any other pins you can use? Want to add a microphone of some kind to one and it seems like I'd need one that can work with the analog pin port. Kinda wish there was a Stemma QT mic that just did volume for this application.

[violet torrent]

There's also RX and TX

[supple crypt]

Not sure that'd be useful for a microphone though?

[violet torrent]

Well, no, but they're available pins

[hearty karma]

Yes, I remember. I'm wondering if you can simplify the implementation so you don't need a high voltage digital potentiometer.

[lost lily]

Its one of these things
I watched a great Scott video that used a hv digipot to control one of these, and in the comments some mentioned "injecting extra voltage" into the feedback line, which I have no clue how it would work. That will still probably require some sort of hv op amp?

[hearty karma]

I doubt an op-amp is required, presumably the feedback pin only takes a low voltage (most chips use between 0.6 and 1.25 volts).

[simple pilot]

Has anyone attached a bike wheel (quick release axel) to a stepper motor? I’d like to attach them together via the axel hole. I have an idea for an art project that I’d like to resuse some busted bike rims for but I don’t know how to adapt my stepper shaft to attach to the bike wheel.

[hearty karma]

I suspect with that much angular momentum, the stepper motor might have a hard time of it, but perhaps you could gear it down or something

[lost lily]

The voltage goes all the way to like 35v as it is a high voltage buck converter

[woeful whale]

I think the method is that you have an extra resistor at the FB pin and then you use a DAC to vary the voltage on the other side of that resistor. The DAC is protected since it’s behind a resistor and the regulator wants to keep the FB pin at some voltage reference (like 1.25v or something?) (so no overvoltage into the DAC either). By changing the DAC’s voltage you change how the resistor divider works.

[supple crypt]

ooh, this is cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vabq-s62IVM

[lost lily]

Ah, that's cool. Then I would need a hv dac or (or hv op amp in combination? Not sure how that would be wired up) either way lol to inject up to 30v

[hearty karma]

That's another valid approach, and easier to find parts for. And yes, you don't really need to generate 30V, you operate at the low voltage end of the divider.

[woeful whale]

I don't think you need to inject 30V. Just find some resistor values that work with a 3.3v DAC to give you the voltage range you need

I have no idea how you would calculate the values though

My approach would be educated trial and error

And that's obviously not the best approach

[lost lily]

I don't have the skills to reverse engineer the module, so I think it would be easier to control high voltage resistance

tbh, I was heavily considering using 7 relays and an IO expander and 7 values of resistors to control the resistance lol

Like I'll have 1k, 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k, 32k, 64k and wire them up in series, with the relays bypassing each resistor

But the 8-relay modules are huge and then I would need to obtain shift registers which I somehow do not have

Maybe transistors but the voltage drop is quite high for such an application

Possibly something like this? Would need 7 of these though https://electronics.stackexchange.com/a/146167/336339