#The Fractured Archive - Rewards Primer

2859 messages · Page 3 of 3 (latest)

lusty garnet
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a lot of game designers fall into that trap specifically

graceful crest
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aka you clear the first random boss and get to choose between not losing run, prayer draining slower or extra recoil damage etc..

lusty garnet
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wow did the same thing with m+ and people have just been perma mad forever

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basically for some reason a lot of devs like the idea of the challenge changing based on random in some way buffs/debuffs

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but then they get there to make the content and turn everything into a negative

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so instead of you choosing buffs its always "in which way do you want this to suck more"

graceful crest
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which is what jagex did with TOA and colo

lusty garnet
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like toa and colo

graceful crest
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yeah, so dont do that for the new encounteer

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dont do invocations you can choose outside the raid

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and the choices inside the raid DO come with a benefit

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the choices don't have to be that extreme

lusty garnet
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yeah like i think it would be fun but maybe look a little too insane to be acceptable to people at first if you just made the content completely insane

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then designed a bunch of random buffs to help you get strong enough to handle it

graceful crest
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its only insane depending on how you design the mechanics of each encounter

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the buffs wouldn't have to be that crazy

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could be as simple as a +10 to accuracy or 2 max hits etc

lusty garnet
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yeah but them changing things drastically is what would make the choices actually interesting

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if you just decided on flat armor or +2 max hits per wave it would work but

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probably be a little boring

graceful crest
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yeah its boring

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and you can do better ideas

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that was just a safe example

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im just thinking in terms of how to innovate pvm or make it fresh

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right now it is literally just enter room kill boss

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which im not saying is a bad thing

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but are you going to release 6 raids that are all the same

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and just slightly weaker to something

lusty garnet
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tbh i actually do think the boss rush thing doesn't feel like osrs

graceful crest
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tbh a rogue like mode would make most sense where you enter with 0 gear but then it just becomes dungeoneering

lusty garnet
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i've played a bunch of mmos and that's pretty normal in most of them

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but for osrs specifically the raid that feels the most like the game is cox

graceful crest
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i have no issues with boss rush im super glad raids 4 is boss rush

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im just thinking post raids 4

lusty garnet
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idk if its even an issue its just interesting how it doesn't quite feel like osrs when they do it

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not that its bad to get inspiration from other games

graceful crest
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maybe it didnt in the past but i think raids and boss rushing is exactly what people think of when they think about OSRS

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or end game osrs at least

lusty garnet
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fighting bosses is something we do in the game but the game is almost always more than just spawning into boss rooms

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its almost weird when we get to do that in osrs because you expect the slight friction from something to be there

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even if its as simple as having to get the slayer task before you can do the boss or having a long run or whatever

graceful crest
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I don’t think friction is necessarily good

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Hence why people hate TOA puzzle rooms or the run back to pnm

proud dirge
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What a funny conversation above

graceful crest
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Yeah it’s that time of the night

proud dirge
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Nobody considers maul or kodai to be an actual mega. If trying to be pedantic and fit a defintion sure

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Maul had no use pre spec buff besides bonking folks in pvp

graceful crest
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I think he was rage baiting

lusty garnet
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the power weapon part actually made me laugh but

graceful crest
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And really wants his spear suggestion to be it

lusty garnet
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thats probably because of what i think of when someone says power weapon

proud dirge
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I mean if ragebait it's just low iq

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what's the point

graceful crest
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Yeah

proud dirge
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But either way Jagex themselves hinted at a crush mega

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If maul was truly a crush mega, this wouldn't be their proposal

graceful crest
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For sure

lusty garnet
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the one guy idr his name right now actually did suggest the real end game fix to what jagex is going through

proud dirge
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So his argument falls flat

lusty garnet
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theorywise is his name actually

graceful crest
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What was it

lusty garnet
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he wants trinkets and it is the answer

proud dirge
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Also spear is fine as a mega

graceful crest
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So a new slot

proud dirge
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His suggestion for prayer bis isn't it though

lusty garnet
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yeah the reason it works is because trinkets are vague

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its an item you'd equip and theres no like preconceived notion about what it can or cant do

graceful crest
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I think a new slot is moving away from old school

lusty garnet
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so jagex has total freedom to make it good and to make it do anything they can think of

proud dirge
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Also trying to powercreep fang is also fine, but stab is kinda in a weird spot

graceful crest
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If anything you could just add that effect to blessings

proud dirge
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Fang is very good but limited to few pieces of content

lusty garnet
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i think he just calls it a trinket slot because im sure he plays wow and knows it will work because that's how blizzard uses trinkets

proud dirge
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It was so powerful on release, they had to nerf it a few times

lusty garnet
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they just make them these big exciting items that do crazy stuff and theres basically no limits

graceful crest
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You can still make a really strong blessing

proud dirge
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It competed with scythe back then, even though scythe was more dps on paper

graceful crest
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I’d rather a strong blessing than a new slot

lusty garnet
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yeah you could use blessings the same way

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and just call them that instead of trinkets

proud dirge
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In my proposal, I listed a upgraded blessing but not as a mega

lusty garnet
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but its just the concept of an item that can be or do anything

proud dirge
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that could also slot in trinkets

graceful crest
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Yeah doesn’t have to be mega

proud dirge
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As I said earlier though, most discussion is useless until rebalance

graceful crest
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All discussion is useless we are just using it to fill the void until jagex actually release something

proud dirge
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for sure

graceful crest
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Basically a raids 4 waiting room

lusty garnet
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yeah i think they got what they actually needed already

proud dirge
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well rebalance into maggot boss

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then raids 4

lusty garnet
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and maybe they'll see a couple of cool random ideas

proud dirge
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if they buff/nerf shadow it'd be interesting

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Megarare:

  • Doesn’t necessarily have to be a weapon. If it is a weapon, a fast hitting one would be sweet. You mentioned melee, and a 3t melee would be nice.
  • If you want it to be a crush megarare, you WILL need to address PNM and the Inq Mace placement progression wise as well as inq as a whole.
  • Mod Goblin mentioned this briefly but a ballista mega could be kinda cool.

Armor:

  • Not too keen on elemental robes as you’d need to address the harmonised staff.
  • If you want to bypass Ancestral, I’d suggest an untradeable reward that consumes ancestral. Unlike treads, will you can use instantly, this would need an ancestral piece to be consumed to equip. This allows Jagex not to trample on raids 1 armor and for general progression

Other stuff:

  • Would be nice to see an upgrade to the blessing slot. Even better if it has possible attunements based on the gods.
  • Upgrades to the ralos and or horn (to work as initially polled)
  • Upgrade to Ferocious gloves
lusty garnet
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i think they already got the intel that there isn't like an overwhelming pushback to crush weapon or anything

proud dirge
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This is what I posted initially and kept it vague as again no point till the summer at least

lusty garnet
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and a bunch of random suggestions for accompanying items

proud dirge
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there's a lot of fixes they need to make prior to crush and or elemental robes

graceful crest
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Ancestral shouldn’t be bypassed imo

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Cause it’s a big part of cox table

lusty garnet
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i do think ancestral is interesting because it just doesn't

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feel like it needs to be replaced

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somehow

proud dirge
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Idm if it is but my suggestion would help keep its relevancy

graceful crest
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Also I’m completely happy with elemental weaknesses being an early to mid game thing to leverage and it doesn’t need to be shoehorned into mega rare tier

proud dirge
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Yeah

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Idm if it does but it has to do so "naturally"

lusty garnet
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ancestral honestly has the really bad jagex drop balancing problem of

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we made this actually super hard to get a set of and now if we replace it we cant make the next thing harder to get

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but if they dont they're gonna delete ancestral from the face of the earth

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value wise lol

graceful crest
lusty garnet
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so it almost has to be like an upgrade situation

proud dirge
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and justi

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legit let something consume them

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aka masori with arma for example

graceful crest
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I think justi is just dead content at this rate

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If justi can be used for upgrade it should combine with inq only

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Not another raid armour

lusty garnet
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i cant believe they dont already combine

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the thematics for it are perfect and they both need some help

graceful crest
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Could drop a catalyst that allows the combination or something but not as a purple

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More like a thread from toa drop

lusty garnet
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the only real problem and this actually is a real problem if you want to save justi or add value to tob

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is that maybe im wrong here but im pretty sure inq is way more rare than justi

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so inq would be the full value

graceful crest
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Inq needs to be less rare

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Pnm still needs addressing

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But a new crush weapon that makes pnm faster aids in doing that too

lusty garnet
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pnm armor rates are almost good honestly

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the mace is kinda crazy and the orbs are really crazy

graceful crest
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It should be closer to Yama

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I think it’s twice as long but not sure

lusty garnet
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yeah but everyone thinks yama is probably a little too easy

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theres probably some middle ground there though

graceful crest
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The drop rate is fine the issue is it’s bis from an easy boss but that’s a separate discussion

jaunty river
lusty garnet
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yama is why i wish raids 4 just dropped a bis melee set

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to put oathplate where it belongs

graceful crest
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Too late for that though

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There’s 0 chance oath is ever moved

lusty garnet
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it seems insane because we have so many melee sets but like

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the melee armor progression is so messed up lol

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a good set to just reset the whole thing would be nice

graceful crest
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I don’t think it’s terrible

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I think melee progression is mostly healthy

lusty garnet
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ya its just the armor where our raid set is garbage

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you can rush 2/3rds bis in rags

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the previous bis comes from a boss everyone hates but at least the time to obtain is right for what it was

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and then inq is just hidden underground somewhere

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bandos is useless because you get free bandos from moons

graceful crest
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You could power creep torva considering it’s not a raid armour

lusty garnet
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holds value at least for the torva upgrade

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if torva was slightly stronger

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and it dropped from tob

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stuff would make sense mostly i think

graceful crest
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I think a new set being stronger than both torva and oath is no issue

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Considering oath is giga easy to grind

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I guess torva would become cheap af

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But nex still drops bis range gloves and zcb is really strong

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Then you do TFA cm mode and introduce new kits for the new armour 😎

lusty garnet
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im pretty curious to see how the raid actually works

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since it apparently is able to be solod but it scales down to 2

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maybe it'll be the first raid where duos aren't awkward

graceful crest
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Don’t think toa duos are awkward

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And if you mage skip at cox it’s not awkward at all

lusty garnet
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it was mostly awkward for those because the solo methods were just kind of better

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although for cox

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you can actually run it like its a solo but its hard to find someone that does all of solo olm exactly like you do

graceful crest
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Yeah that part is awkward

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TOA it doesn’t change anything

lusty garnet
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ya toa is just about money more than anything

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i hate that they made the points scaling actually hit a point where things are just probably more efficient to play alone

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unless you know everyone is locked in and sending the raid

graceful crest
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Solos are better purely for the mvp points there

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Depends really if you’re an iron

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Ideally means raids 4 for money you do it in groups

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And it’s soloable just takes twice as long

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I’d rather they introduce more rooms like maiden at tob where it’s awkward to solo even if doable

lusty garnet
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i like when the room actually works as intended when you're solo but we've only really gotten that with cox

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in toa they just remove mechanics so its kind of a lazy way to setup solos

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and tob is the opposite where some stuff just can't be done as intended and you sort of just eat the punishment and the strat is about not actually dying

graceful crest
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I don’t think that’s a negative about tob it should have its niche for not being viable to solo consistently

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More group content needs to be encouraged

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With actual group mechanics

lusty garnet
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i think its always better if you can solo or duo or trio or whatever number really its just about if they can actually design something well to accomplish that or not

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like if we had a really well made tob solo mode that would be a w for the game but

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idk if we'd actually get that or not if they tried

graceful crest
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I don’t think we’d ever get that and it would take away so much from tob

graceful tinsel
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Creeping Torva at the moment would be really stupid imo

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Even with Oathplate and Inq out it's still BiS Str bonus atm and also the de facto "stab armour" at the moment. I don't think we need a new melee set, we have more than enough, what we're lacking is sidegrade Ranged and Magic sets.

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BiS: Torva, Masori, Ancestral

Sidegrades: Inq, Oath, Virtus

A Ranged sidegrade is completely missing.

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Ideally we'd get Pernix as like a heavy ammo set similar to what Virtus is for Ancient Magicks or what Inq/Oath are for their specific styles.

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Which I've been asking for years lol

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And I'm not counting Crystal since it only works with Bowfa and Bowfa isn't even that good for anything anymore, it's really just a stand-in for until you get Tbow/ZCB/Shadow and then you rarely will ever use a Bowfa. Haven't owned one in 4 years and haven't needed it for a single thing lol

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But with 3 Melee, 2 Mage, and only 1 Range set, it definitely makes no sense to do another Melee set.

knotty pond
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i think they should creep torva honestly oath has already nearly killed it imo. nex will still have zcb/vambs they can upgrade scape and require torva for new bis armor if they want

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str bonus space is just not strong rn since oath is just better. either gotta buff torva or add something that gives even more str imo

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atleast masori/ances feel rewarding at the top end

nova otter
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It’s worth noting that it’s not like “Torva is bis and here are sidegrades,” it’s that both are bis for different situations. Especially true when we talk about the best weapon and the most common attack style for oathplate.

graceful crest
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If there is a new melee armour suited for a new weapon then you slash a massive part of the use case for torva

graceful tinsel
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Torva is still like double the price of Oath

graceful tinsel
knotty pond
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if they release a crush mrare ppl will use inquistor not torva

graceful tinsel
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“Oathplate crashed Torva” is a myth

knotty pond
graceful tinsel
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The fact Nex is 4 years old and farmed like crazy crashed Torva

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It’s still nearly 200m per piece

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That’s pretty strong for being 4 years old

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And still double what Oath is worth after being in the game for less than a year lol

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Everyone acts like Torva is worth 50gp when the reality is it’s still the most expensive set in the game and it’s not even particularly close 😂

graceful tinsel
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And like I said Torva is still BiS over the other two, case in point you use Torva at cow boss. Why? Because accuracy doesn’t matter.

knotty pond
graceful tinsel
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Extreme example but that’s relevant to bring up regardless

nova otter
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Having only oath is generally better than having only Torva, I don’t think it’s reasonable to say that Torva is bis and oath is a sidegrade

graceful tinsel
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Let me put it this way you could Elder Maul most things down to where Torva becomes better than Oath

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Maiden for example this is probably true

nova otter
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Is bp not bis because tbow exists?

knotty pond
graceful tinsel
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At the end of the day Torva is BiS and Oath/Inq are style-specific sidegrades that are often BiS in their style

graceful tinsel
nova otter
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Not what I asked

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Is bp a bis item

graceful tinsel
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Sometimes yes often times no

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Why change the subject when we were talking about melee armour

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Torva is BiS str bonus end of story

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Oath and Inq are niche sidegrades that work better for a particular style

nova otter
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It’s not changing the subject, you just refuse to acknowledge what bis actually means

knotty pond
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thats like saying gs is bis str theres a lot more to the picture

graceful tinsel
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🤦🏻‍♂️

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You don’t understand what niche sidegrades means

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It means BiS for a particular thing but not BiS overall

nova otter
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You don’t understand what niche means

graceful tinsel
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Virtus is BiS Ancients but it’s not BiS Mage in general

knotty pond
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its not niche

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if ur looking at it from outsider perspective but if ur keeping up with the meta ud understand why oath is better then torva

nova otter
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Because they are

graceful tinsel
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I understand where Oath is and isn’t good, yes.

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You don’t understand where Torva is good though, or rather how Torva is good.

knotty pond
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metas can change but u cant say oath is worse then torva rn u just cant

graceful tinsel
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Accuracy doesn’t matter if the defense is low enough that you just get more DPS with Torva though

graceful tinsel
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Cuz most places you use slash you still use a Torva helm and if you cared enough to DPS calc most encounters after speccing def down (if applicable) Torva would show higher DPS

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Torva is also BiS anywhere you Fang

knotty pond
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"if applicable" even at tob ppl use oath that was one i was suprised by

graceful tinsel
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Either way this is a pointless argument and you guys have managed to pull it way off topic

graceful tinsel
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Back to this point

knotty pond
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well its important to understand meta before u suggest items imo. if u dont understand the current game how can u reccomend items for its future?

graceful tinsel
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But I bet if you DPS calced most rooms after 1-2 Maul specs

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Torva probably nets out better

nova otter
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Classic “lil bro” ah yes

graceful tinsel
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Oath is mainly used because it’s better for all of Verzik tbh

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Torva would beat Oath in most of the rooms though

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At least if people are bringing def reduction like you’re supposed to

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That’s why people settled on Torva helm + Oath body/legs. you get enough of the benefits of the high Str bonus of Torva with the piece that gives you the most of it, while combining the accuracy of the top and bottom of Oath which still has respectable Str bonus.

nova otter
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Especially when you refuse to consider that you’re just wrong

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So many times

graceful tinsel
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Go DPS calc based on everything I’ve said

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I’m right

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You’re wrong

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Cry is free

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Reacting a mirror emoji doesn’t make you any less objectively incorrect btw lol

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It’s a coping mechanism you use to deflect the fact that you’re wrong

nova otter
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You take way too many things as “objectively correct” that are opinions. Yes, it’s true that at 0 defense getting maxhits helps more than accuracy but you’re oversimplifying it, and as you said yourself, the fact that people bring some oath over torva shows that it’s not better inherently and not definitively bis

graceful tinsel
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Because you don’t spec Verzik down and that’s like half the raid

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I thought I explained this already

nova otter
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Yes I can read

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But what about the other many places you don’t use full torva

graceful tinsel
nova otter
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And again, you’re saying things that you think argue for you but actually argue against you

graceful tinsel
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Like just say that and it makes the rest of this so much simpler to understand lol

nova otter
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That’s my line to you

graceful tinsel
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LMAOOO

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Okay buddy 😆

knotty pond
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have u asked high lvl players their thoughts on oath vs torva?

graceful tinsel
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The average ironmeme will usually regurgitate the same take as Etube as a cope to avoid doing Nex

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But it is just a cope

nova otter
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It should be telling that when you bring things up people are generally against you. Like I said earlier, the fact that you don’t consider the observations of others to be valid doesn’t mean your statements are fact

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I have almost full Nex completion idk what you’re on about

graceful tinsel
knotty pond
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ive primairly played a main im a new iron so i feel like i have both perspectives on game

graceful tinsel
nova otter
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Why is meme content relevant

graceful tinsel
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Oh so you are worse than me at the game, gotcha.

nova otter
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Sure man there’s nothing I could possibly say to convince you otherwise

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You did one piece of content gz

graceful tinsel
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Pretty sure if you tallied up every possible use case in the game, Torva has more than Oath or Inq btw

nova otter
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Do you have GM? What’s your pb at other content? How many orbs did awakened dt2 take you?

graceful tinsel
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It’s closer at the top end but you start including all mid game pet grinds and meme content, Torva wins

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Mainly because Torva is BiS anywhere you use stab, but also anywhere the def stat is low enough that the extra accuracy of the other sets doesn’t matter

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And the helm is still often BiS anyways lol

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So like I said it’s just that you have a very weak understanding of the game as a whole and how DPS works

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If Torva was as pointless as you guys claim it is it wouldn’t be the most expensive set in the game by a pretty wide margin

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It’s like double what Oath is worth lol

nova otter
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Again, classic missing the point and oversimplifying what the discussion was actually about. I never said the torva helm wasn’t used with oath and I never said it wasn’t good where it’s good, the literal only point I made was that Oath is more of a bis than a sidegrade

graceful tinsel
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And that’s after being in the game for 4 years and being farmed into oblivion btw

graceful tinsel
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Better for slash, good enough otherwise to help justify just getting Oath over Torva.

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That’s what sidegrades are

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It is BiS slash

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But it’s not BiS melee

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That was the point I was making

nova otter
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Say that again - Oath is bis, thank you for agreeing with me

graceful tinsel
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Yes thank you for agreeing with me

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I knew you’d come around eventually

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Proud of you kid

knotty pond
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u were comparing virtus to oathplate earlier do u really think they are in the same lvl of power/niche?

graceful tinsel
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Kinda, very similar items

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Virtus is just good enough to use for general Magic use

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But it has its clear intended style/use case which is Ancients

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Same as Oath is for slash

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It just so happens slash has more uses than Ancients

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So you can perceive Oath to be a stronger set relative to the metas

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But on paper they do the same thing

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One for Magic one for Melee

knotty pond
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do u think its mass propaganda that people see oathplate diffrently? cuz i dont think many ppl care about virtus over ancestral like at all

graceful tinsel
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Yes it’s mainly based in Nex hate. Almost everyone who talks Oathplate up is like “hell yeah I’ll just get Oath cuz fuck doing Nex fuck Torva don’t need it”

graceful tinsel
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Oathplate is basically a set you’re guaranteed to complete after a point

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Virtus is never guaranteed and in fact it’ll get annoying to start getting a lot of dupes

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I know people who have completed an SRA that didn’t even complete Virtus along the way

knotty pond
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ye but do u think ppl will care about virtus post ancestral? like i think way more ppl gona care about oath rn even after torva

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u said it urself they need torva helm but they use oath body/legs

graceful tinsel
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Not unless they use Ancients a lot

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Rn Ancients isn’t particularly useful for a lot of things

knotty pond
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you know what is used for a lot of thing slash

graceful tinsel
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Yes I’m aware

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I said as much

knotty pond
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thats why i dont think virtus/oathplate comparison is fair. u can call it as a niche but one is signifcantly more dominant and desired

graceful tinsel
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Slash is currently more useful than Ancients so the perception that Oathplate is better than Virtus holds up but on paper they essentially do the same thing for their respective combat styles

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One is BiS slash while still being generally okay for all uses

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The other is BiS Ancients but generally okay for all uses

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It’d be like if we got Pernix as a heavy ammo set

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Would probably still work fine with Tbow

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But wouldn’t be BiS for it

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There’s really wide open reward space for Ranged sets imo especially considering they just added the different ammo styles

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They can do the same with Ranged that they have with melee

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We could get like a heavy ammo Ranged set that can be like the Oathplate/Virtus for Ranged

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A solid all-around set but has its specific style it’s BiS for

graceful crest
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torva retains value because of how aids the nex grind is not solely because of how strong it is

graceful tinsel
graceful crest
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its not getting farmed at the same rate anywhere close to yama

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which also has dry protection

graceful tinsel
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Have you seen the bots or gold farmers at Nex?

graceful crest
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there are bots at yama

graceful tinsel
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I mean I'm partially guilty for running a Nex cc but even beyond my cc there are tons of bot teams if you hop around you can find them

graceful tinsel
#

But Nex has been in the game for over 4 years now

#

There's more than enough Torva to go around at this point.

#

Also this idea that Nex is an aids grind is just a straight up lie when you can do mini masses for a comparable drops/hour and use up far less supplies and spend far less time stacking kc.

#

But most people haven't caught onto the mini mass tech yet

#

You could say it's an industry secret of sorts

jaunty river
#

Nightmare has been around longer and it also has a high gp value doesn’t mean inq is good

graceful tinsel
#

But if you're in the know, you know.

graceful tinsel
#

Crush does have its use-cases though, Nightmare was also farmed to shit by bots early on and still kind of is here and there.

#

It's 6 year old content ofc its the cheapest lol

graceful crest
graceful tinsel
proud dirge
#

Torva while being bis for maxes, is not bis overall in current meta. Current use cases is nex, toa, cox/cms

Oathplate, at least top and bottom, are current bis due to the amount of use cases it has due to slash upgrades

Torva is the niche in today’s meta, whereas oaths isn’t. The value is irrelevant as it’s just tied to rates

#

If you don’t understand this, you don’t know what meta or bis means

graceful tinsel
#

So Torva is more useful in raids than Oathplate is, gotcha

#

Thank you for proving my point

proud dirge
#

Also most endgame players would genuinely laugh if folks tried to flex solo nex pbs. (It’s sadly irrelevant)

graceful tinsel
proud dirge
#

Cox and cm teams*

graceful tinsel
#

That's why only ~20 or so people have done it

graceful tinsel
proud dirge
#

Solo is full Oath

graceful tinsel
#

And the helm for ToB

proud dirge
graceful tinsel
#

You're just salty you can't solo Nex its ok bro

#

Not all of us can be good at the game

proud dirge
#

Yes current bis overall is TOO

graceful tinsel
#

I believe in you though lil bro you'll get there one of these days ❤️

proud dirge
#

Solo nex is irrelevant for endgame folks so it’s not a flex. I can also range camp and use sweets

jaunty river
#

@graceful tinsel was ur name nex nex at some point?

proud dirge
#

It’s cool you did it tho

graceful tinsel
jaunty river
#

Jw

graceful tinsel
proud dirge
graceful tinsel
graceful tinsel
proud dirge
#

That’s great but I do promise you no one cares if you did it. However it’s cool that you did

#

It’s legitimately irrelevant as a measure of being good

graceful tinsel
proud dirge
#

Only things solo that are tracked are pnm/fc/inf outside of raids. I guess dt2 but that’s also meh

graceful tinsel
#

More people have soloed HMT than people that have soloed Nex, there is a reason for that, you just don't get it yet.

#

Now can we stop dragging this thread off-topic?

#

I was discussing why there is really no room or reason to add a new melee set, conversely there's plenty of reasons to pursue new Mage or Ranged sets.

proud dirge
#

That’s on you to stop doing so and to stop replying with something irrelevant

graceful tinsel
proud dirge
#

There’s room for a true bis stab set. Torva is just maxes. That would then lead to a crush set (Inq), Stab set (Tbd), Slash set (Oath) and true melee max (Torva). If they gave Torva another max or 2, that would be very ideal and would lead to less mixed sets

graceful crest
#

solo nex is an achievement I wouldn't discredit for sure but using it in this discussion has absolutely no use other than stopping people from wanting to debate you

#

and you're posting here a lot so I assume you do want people to debate you

graceful tinsel
proud dirge
#

Hence why adding maxes would help it

#

Not kill it

graceful tinsel
#

Hence why releasing a stab set serves no purpose at this point, especially without a stab mega rare.

proud dirge
#

It serves a purpose because there’s space for it

#

If they wanted to go that way

graceful tinsel
#

If it were up to me we'd get a stab mega rare from this raid and then 1-2 years later, a stab set from some other endgame content to compliment the mega rare.

proud dirge
#

Stab mega rare is a bit more odd with fang existing but is doable

#

Whereas for scythe it was tent downgrade for a long time

#

Or saeldor but that’s not used as much

graceful crest
#

stab mega rare can exist since fang should not be bis stab

proud dirge
#

Yes

graceful crest
#

this is actually wild

proud dirge
#

I deal with dps calcs and progs so this is what I’m good with lmao

#

He’s had very pedantic arguments with little substance and knowledge

#

Some things are fine and other things are ie

#

Also calling himself a ragebaiter further proves how he barely has the means to back anything up

#

Which leads to solo nex pbs, which again no one in endgame genuinely cares for. It IS however cool that they did it for “personal” gain

graceful crest
#

he has 10k nex kc i think he's just really invested in nex

proud dirge
#

Of course

#

General consensus in endgame is that nex rots the brain

#

As a joke ofc

trim knot
#

I really like this ngl

#

one cuz it looks like actual fucking claws

proud dirge
#

It’s interesting yeah

#

But stuff relating to prayer is interesting

trim knot
#

also cuz prayer regen/afk is my equivalent of that guy's nex bcaFunnyLaugh

graceful crest
#

doesnt ward already have a corp shield upgrade

#

don't give me more reasons to have to do corp 😭

proud dirge
#

I know a decent amount of folks are against this, but rework corp

graceful crest
#

i doubt they ever do

trim knot
#

Nah, I feel like most people would be okay with corp rework in 2026

proud dirge
#

Nah

trim knot
#

Especially if similar hours

#

to complete

proud dirge
#

There was a game suggestion

graceful crest
#

at best i can just see a really strong gear/set for it

proud dirge
#

And it got downvoted to hell

trim knot
proud dirge
#

Also

#

Corp is so bad, it literally has folks doing it via services

#

Services being the most common way of killing corp

#

Due to how useless and shit it is

#

All because of the pet

trim knot
#

We're playing too much with sidegrades and as long as its Ward/Treads/Masori-upgrade style where you can use it as dropped and then further upgraded, I'm okay with powercreep now.

graceful crest
#

on the armor discussion though

#

if you keep torva as highest str bonus

#

but introduce a stab niche set

#

and upgrade inq

#

then what is the point of torva set

#

if the niche sets are going to be used over it

proud dirge
#

Pure maxes if needed

#

Which excels on low def

#

That would be the main use case

#

What I said above is 100% correct with current metas

#

It still allows there to be a Stab set if needed

#

And allows for more variety

#

Which is fine

trim knot
# proud dirge It still allows there to be a Stab set if needed

Yup, it's a dangerously close line though.

As we've discussed, the only reason why Torva is still used is because older content can be dropped to 0 defense and because Torva Helm synergizes well due to Oathplate's less STR stats, which I don't even believe was intended by Jagex.

#

It's why I wanted Torva to be a sacrifice material for Oathplate, Inq, and Future Stab

graceful crest
#

i dont see them buffing str bonus on torva any time soon

#

considering they already dont like the nex drop table

proud dirge
#

I would rather them rework Yama and nex dt

trim knot
#

If we get a new melee set from Raids 4, please let consume Torva lmao.

proud dirge
#

Because progress wise it’s cooked

graceful crest
#

i highly doubt they ever rework yama now

proud dirge
#

Irons can also opt to skip nex for the most part

#

If they increased Yama ttc by 40
Hours

#

And reduced nex by like 80, it’d be in a better spot

#

Or more tbh

#

Adding maxes would help torva out a lot as well

#

Hence why rebalance needs to address these things

graceful crest
#

i think yama is fine in terms of how long it takes

#

nex can be adjusted probably

jaunty river
graceful crest
#

if a new set combnines with torva

#

it would either have to be severely underpowered without the combination

#

or be absolutely crazy with the combination

#

im not a fan of raids rewards combining with each other from seperate raids

#

ancestrals is the only set without an upgrade path I would not mind ancestrals having a combination

#

honestly I think bringing a healthy new armour set into the game is as complicated as bringing in a new mega rare

trim knot
#

I wouldn't say no to a flat out Ancestral upgrade tbh

graceful crest
#

i dont mind an ancest upgrade but you take out a lot from Cox table

trim knot
#

that consumed Ancestral

#

nope, still good and actually better

#

because it cuts the Ancestral grind in half

graceful crest
#

with the combination sure

trim knot
#

in terms of hours

graceful crest
#

how does it cut it in half

trim knot
#

The reason is because you're expected to go 6 ancestral uniques before full set

graceful crest
#

full ancestrals can take a painfully long time to farm

trim knot
#

correct and when it's ancestral components like bandos components

#

the grind is halved

#

outright

graceful crest
#

oh you mean if they're broken down

trim knot
#

yup!

#

always

graceful crest
#

they really should have addressed the cox table by now rather than saying "we're dipping our toes into thinking maybe we should remove it"

#

and never addressing the table at all

trim knot
#

I know it'll creep Shadow by 4-6 max hits

#

but uh

#

that's shadows problem SMILE

graceful crest
#

thats not an issue

trim knot
#

not ancestral

graceful crest
#

if range is getting a buff as is

#

and melee

#

new weapon + potential piety upgrade

#

have all 3 styles buffed

trim knot
#

  1. Piety Upgrade

  2. Ancestral

  3. Torva Upgrade

  4. Voidwaker Upgrade pausepogfish

graceful crest
#

i doubt they address both armour sets

#

highly doubt

#

from 1 raid

#

if its a melee armour an occult upgrade could suffice

#

i genuinely think we aren't getting an update or blog post until near the end of the next league

ivory pollen
#

Oh shit I actually like the sound of a voidwaker upgrade

#

Definitely not because I love voidwaker on my iron or anything

#

Torva upgraded sounds hella lame tho

#

Just as shitty as a inq upgrade

#

I’d rather scrap all the bs melee sets we have atm and release a stand alone bis

proud dirge
#

Down for that ngl

#

But my cosmetics 🥀

knotty pond
#

im concerned about vw in practice its really not that strong theyve released items to outclass/compete with it

#

but something about ignoring all defence types with a min hit being upgraded i think is extremely strong hard to balance. if it beats zcb and every other spec wep it wont be easy to just nerf

ivory pollen
#

Yeah that’s true

#

It’s already on the cusp of being too good

graceful crest
#

i just dont see a spec weapon or upgrade coming in

#

when kristen is literally about to release

graceful crest
#

it doesnt have to be bis anywhere

#

its an absolute monster pvp spec

#

and it drops from wildy content anyway

trim knot
#

cuz guthix

graceful crest
nova otter
#

I did think the DWH spec animation was way cooler on VW

#

Felt way snappier, way more lightningbolt-like

ivory pollen
#

To force people to go to pnm?

#

What is healthy about that

graceful crest
#

what is healthy about a new set that makes pnm even more irrelevant

ivory pollen
#

That we don’t force the player base to go to pnm

graceful crest
#

well you're not FORCED to go there because torva still exists

#

and in an ideal world pnm is improved

jaunty river
#

pnm is a good piece of content that got side barred by bad drops we should revive good content

graceful crest
#

its not even that bad now and with a new crush weapon it'd be even easier to farm

nova otter
#

PNM is amazing and is only held back by needing to 3x buff the drops and 5x buff the orbs

graceful crest
#

yes

ivory pollen
graceful crest
#

if you don't want to do pnm that's absolutely fine, but you can't argue it's healthier to drag players away from it and kill existing content

ivory pollen
#

that just seems just as bad as the elemental set they proposed

graceful crest
#

elemental set sucks im against but it isnt the same argument

ivory pollen
#

It’s similar, raids 4 armour set should not be a side grade

#

It should be bis melee gear

graceful crest
ivory pollen
#

That’s fine if we have different opinions

graceful crest
#

i have no issue with raids 4 dropping bis armour i just cant see it happening

ivory pollen
#

But bis mage from cox, bis range from Toa, bis melee from raids 4

graceful crest
#

no bro i'd actually be happy if it did drop it

ivory pollen
#

Bis tank from tob

#

Makes logical sense

graceful crest
#

im just saying, i cant argue it'd be healthier

#

or expect it to pass

ivory pollen
#

I’m honestly fed up of upgrade scape especially for raids loot

#

But I guess some people like it

#

🤷🏻‍♂️ different opinions

#

Like I don’t wanna be landing that sweet purple, looking forward to an upgrade, then realising need to do 300 hours of pnm

graceful crest
#

i dont like upgrade scape either

#

i just realistically dont see it happening

glass shadow
# graceful crest i don't think there's actually a space for a new armour set as is and the only h...

Sorry, I was actually starting to write an idea for inq upgrade, but I didn't find any way make it in a good reward space, so I ended up with the concept below:

Like a crush armour set that has Torva's strength bonus (+2 chestplate, +2 legs) and a bit higher than Inquisitors' crush bonuses, but has very low defence(can be attached to Torva) (imagine it just being like chains, which then can be added onto Torva armour to create Chained Torva)?
-> A true BIS chestplate and legs for Str and Crush which leaves Inq as a progression stone and a bit unnecessary in progression (tho it's still best armour with Inq mace ofc) but leaving Torva as the main BIS? It could also only be body and legs, which leaves regular torva helm as still BIS, also leaves helm choice a bit flexible. Oathplate chestplate and legs would be less often better than Torva than it is today, securing this new Strength bonus armour (chains) as the main best strength bonus/DPS melee gear. When combining it with Torva it adds +1 str bonus and all the defence bonus of Torva, in total not increasing defence bonus tho as Torva is already Justiciar level of tankiness.

This "chain" armour could have a special effect that it synergizes with this Fractured Chain (but I don't think the Fractured Chain should be a megarare, I think it fits more alongside Nox Hally or between Nox hally and Soulreaper Axe?

#

Something like this? Obviously just way better drawn and cooler and whatnot

Chain_torva.jpg
ivory pollen
#

Bruh if the raids 4 armourser requires TORVA AND INQ that is honestly the most cringe thing I’ve ever seen

#

Like that is just crazy

#

No thanks

#

Voting no

#

Nex having 5 BIS items is already egregious

#

Why are we still forcing people to farm torva

#

And inq

#

Nex would be fine if the only BIS rewards was zcb

ripe meadow
#

I think an elemental robe side grade is worthwhile IF jagex is willing to make elemental magic a secondary required combat style in raid 4 (maybe a suped up version of killing the minions at royal titans? or one of the bosses changes color like the daganoth mother and when hit with elemental spells it's defense is debuffed?). Since it's a magic archive I think a reward that makes thematic sense is a shield slot where u can combine tome of elements, call it "The Codex", for every tome you put in get small % mage boost or larger bonus elemental % damage or something.

glass shadow
#

This would be a very similar design to how Jagex released the Avernic Treads (it just increases to have BIS str + crush in one instead of being tribris or anything)

#

I just wouldn't want Torva to be devalued as it would also devalue the classic Bandos too.. And I think Torva fits really well as BIS melee armour which can have added or be built on with some extra str, crush accuracy, eventually it could have added spikes and blades to add slash and stab accuracy too.. Avernic treads (max) approach for it to be BIS all three melee styles eventually by adding more upgrades to max it's potential

graceful crest
graceful crest
#

we already got a magic raid

#

and i honestly think elemental weaknesses should just be a thing for early to mid game accounts to exploit

#

it doesn't have to be shoe horned into late game

#

there can be a couple niche cases outside of ice demon but dont want loads of content designed around it

#

thats how you sink the shadow

#

if they need magic i'd hope for freezing or the other ancients to be used in the raid like at maiden

lusty garnet
#

like lol you can't expect jagex to see a whole new area to add rewards and be like

graceful crest
#

i mean it can

lusty garnet
#

nah i'd rather just struggle to make anything in the existing areas we already filled out

#

its inevitable that they look at things like heavy range and elemental weaknesses and light range and crush and stab etc

graceful crest
#

so do you go back and retroactively change the weaknesses of monsters again

lusty garnet
#

they already do that

#

we've gotten more than one update to that lol

graceful crest
#

they've done it in a large update once

#

or twice

lusty garnet
#

but yeah totally they're gonna do it

graceful crest
#

so it's going to hit shadow either way

#

which is already below 1b

lusty garnet
#

its like saying stab should just remain a low end players option with fang forever

#

they're obviously not going to do that forever

graceful crest
#

no i think stab should be upgraded

lusty garnet
#

yeah and this is no different

graceful crest
#

stab doesn't directly affect scythe or a crush weapon but elemental weakness directly steps on shadow if the boss is weak to magic

lusty garnet
#

they do directly impact scythe and crush weapons

#

jagex has to sit there and decide what the stats are on every boss

#

elemental weakness is a stat just like stab def etc

#

the biggest reason probably that they haven't gone harder with elemental weaknesses

#

is that they probably dont want to encourage people to try to get a harm orb

#

but that wall will eventually fall

#

thats actually probably the biggest reason they should change orb rates on pnm

graceful crest
#

so the root of raids 4 issues is at fixing pnm again lmao

lusty garnet
#

since its actually standing in the way of their game design

#

yeah its just an awkward situation where its like

#

this would be a totally viable path but their only existing content for it at the high end is just fucked up

#

so like i kind of expect them to one day nerf the orb drop rates or

graceful crest
#

orbs should be common

#

if anything

lusty garnet
#

just release a weapon to make the harm orb completely irrelevant to swerve the issue

graceful crest
#

compared to inq

lusty garnet
#

but yeah i hope they go the path of updating the orbs

#

because pnm is honestly a good boss they just have it chained up with infinite bad decisions on top of it

graceful crest
#

yeah they are just too slow to retroact on content

#

and dont take drastic enough changes

lusty garnet
#

theres also just availability issues with elemental spells like

#

harm orb wouldn't be that big of a deal if they had things like wands with the same effect but they only buffed one element

strange jolt
#

Elemental robes should come from a standalone boss(es) like virtus, not from a raid

lusty garnet
#

to make harm a nice to have but not the only thing

strange jolt
#

It’ll just be justiciar 2.0 if it comes from a raid

lusty garnet
#

kodai could even be the water version

#

but they're just asleep

#

but yeah its like a crazy lane for rewards because its so underused

#

once they got the basic elemental stuff down they could start making like idk

#

staff of ralos or some nonsense like that which did sunfire runes and so on

#

they could really turn it into a lot of content

graceful crest
#

yeah i guess im not so against elemental robes but from an actual boss would be more interesting

lusty garnet
#

yeah im not sure how you could even implement it into a raid in a solid way

#

well okay i know how but lol

#

they could give it the same % bonus to all magic that ancestral has and it would definitely be a raid tier reward

#

because that would just be the new best set of robes

#

but then you'd have to be okay with killing ancestral or i guess talk about a way to combine them for an extra few % or some shit idk

graceful crest
#

make it weaker than ancest but the weakness brings it up

lusty garnet
#

maybe the combining thing would work if they were on par before the combination so it was like

#

always good to get either drop and having both was also good

strange jolt
#

They should just shelf the idea entirely instead of putting any effort into it until they’re ready to release a new standalone boss where it might be appropriate

lusty garnet
#

oh im sure if they do this

#

that boss is going to be one of the bosses in the raid

#

it can be a melee raid without having exclusively melee bosses

strange jolt
#

A raid is legit the worst possible place they can add elemental robes as a reward 😭 especially a melee raid

lusty garnet
#

just because i highly doubt they'd make a set of robes knowing they're useless and pass up the chance to add the boss that makes them useful

graceful crest
#

only magic reward i wouldnt mind seeing is a magic amulet

strange jolt
#
  1. Locked into harm orb availability and balancing as a limit unless they release a new staff
  2. Everything below harm is immediately not viable compared to shadow/Ayak unless they make harm dramatically better than both, which they said they don’t want to do
  3. If top end was equal in dps to shadow/ayak, it’s still worse because no thralls, death charge, veng, ancients utility etc (which you can have all in one inventory via sbs)
lusty garnet
#

#3 is probably something they want to fix

strange jolt
#

It’s like they dug this huge ditch with powered staffs and harm and instead of addressing the what got them there, they are wanting to attempt an impossible jump out

lusty garnet
#

like jagex probably isn't thrilled with the fact that we just run thralls 100% of the time almost and the answer to not doing that is almost exclusively sbs

#

effectively giving you anything if you're willing to put up with it

#

and honestly they're not even wrong its pretty poorly designed/balanced

strange jolt
#

Unless they make a staff that you can load with spells, I don’t think there’s any easy way out

lusty garnet
#

i mean i think its kind of easy to fix

#

like if jagex wanted us to use standard spells its pretty easy to put a big enough number on earth weakness to get us to use an earth surge

#

they still need to solve harm orb

#

but like

strange jolt
#

Yeah but then you’re still locked behind [1]

#

Because harm orb is the ceiling

lusty garnet
#

idk they could easily just slap a number big enough on it that you could cast it without a weapon equipped

#

and beat anything else

strange jolt
#

And anything below harm is 25% worse best case scenario

#

So if they make non-harm near BIS, then harm dwarfs all else by a mile

lusty garnet
#

yeah but if thats the boss they make thats pretty easy to do

graceful crest
#

i dont think a new elemental weapon should exist

#

harm and kodai should both be used in that case

lusty garnet
#

like theres not really a lot stopping them from just saying this is the elemental weakness boss and they're just the only things that really do much

strange jolt
#

Sure enough yeah, but I think it’d be better for future proofing sake to address to main issues first - or at least make an attempt to

#

Adding another viable weapon similar to or better than harm would open room there

lusty garnet
#

yeah i still think harm should be changed or maybe soft nerfed by getting basically harm like clones just for specific elements

strange jolt
#

Still don’t think that’s a raid reward tho personally

lusty garnet
#

just anything to put some actual progression in there basically

#

they didnt realize at the time but making harm good at all spell types was pretty dumb

graceful crest
#

i wouldnt be against the idea of an orb for the harm dropping

lusty garnet
#

like lol

#

imagine if we got a new melee weapon and it just had all attack styles and it just said +200 accuracy instead of a specific style

#

thats the harm orb for elemental spells

#

they just didn't know they were going to split the elemental spells into different weaknesses yet

#

so it kinda looks nuts now

strange jolt
#

Hard to fault them for it because at the time it was exciting and cool and competed with sang but ultimately put them in a really tough future state

#

One of the many problems with nightmare 💀

graceful crest
#

i mean it being strong against all elements would only be an issue if there were loads of different bosses where it would be bis

#

but i dont think there is

lusty garnet
#

thats probably why there aren't bosses like that

#

like

#

lets say we made a fire elemental boss and jagex said you know what the only viable thing to do here is to spray it with water

#

sure now we use water spells with any staff but for the best dps

#

its like 20% better to have a harm orb

#

and nothing else is even close

#

so theres no real progression and its kinda awkward

strange jolt
#

The biggest issue is understanding how they want elemental spells to compete with shadow

Second to that, also a big issue, is that harm is a minimum of 25% better than all other options

Third, if you have harm as the ceiling, then everything else is effectually not worth using

#

And mixed into all of that is the flexibility you get with charged staffs and spellbook utility

lusty garnet
#

it would be easy to compete with shadow because you'd probably make it like ice demon if the intent was really all in on elemental spells

strange jolt
#

It’s honestly kind of a shit show lol

lusty garnet
#

they'd just manufacture the situation where nothing but elemental spells were something you were thinking about

#

the problem rn is that if they do that it turns out there really isn't any progression

#

its one item

strange jolt
#

Competing with charged staffs also includes spellbook versatility and utility though, so it just needs to be insane

strange jolt
graceful crest
#

niche items just further extend horizontal scape

strange jolt
#

And to make it worse, that single item comes from one of the least enjoyed places in the game with the most egregious drop table and TTK

lusty garnet
#

and like i guess that's not a good reason for them to not make the content

#

since they actually just have to do it to fix it

#

like the content wont exist until they make it

graceful crest
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im in the minority I just outright want a new floor of power and difficulty of bosses pepegiantclub

strange jolt
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If normal spellbook had better versatility, it’d be a diff story

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So there’s an angle there too potentially

lusty garnet
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i mean they did make that one wgs boss that showed you could do interesting things with the spellbook

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they honestly went really crazy lol

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where you had to shoot the guys spells out of the air with your spells and telegrab the bomb and alch it etc

graceful crest
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i hated that boss

lusty garnet
#

i think that one was more like

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novel than a real attempt would be but they could take those concepts and make it a real fight

graceful crest
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the more i think about ideas for this game the more it hurts my head

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i can honestly see now why the mods get it wrong so often lol

strange jolt
#

FWIW some of the stuff they get wrong is seemingly obvious 🤣 but it’s also different as a player than it is as a dev. Especially when not all of the team have equal skill sets at different areas of the game

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Which is unrealistic to expect

graceful crest
#

I mean one bad blog post and the internet rushes out the pitch forks

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even the good ones get people complaining

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like if you look back at nightmare or torva

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pre release i dont think anyone would have wanted it to be in the state that we're all asking for it to be now

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god forbid torva was more than 1 max hit over bandos

lusty garnet
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i mean some of it is impossible its not like they were intentionally dumb they just couldn't see the future

strange jolt
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I gave very little grace on nightmare tbh. There was so much that was immediately and obviously wrong (and still is) that I’m surprised it made it into the game

lusty garnet
#

however that does mean they should get on top of adjusting things after the fact when it becomes obvious instead of impossible to predict

strange jolt
#

Drops were literally “turned off” for the first day or so

graceful crest
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yeah nightmare is a complete blunder

lusty garnet
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like the state of pnm is neglect

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they could have fixed that and changed those drops like the harm orb to work with the game already

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they just choose not to

strange jolt
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Also could’ve buffed inq years ago (meaningful buff, not the dumb “buff” they gave with inq maze)

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There’s just so much wrong there that it’s genuinely a pretty good meme at this point

graceful crest
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i dont know if they ever buff inq i can see them just doing the armor upgrade with it instead

lusty garnet
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part of it is that their actual logic is broken when it comes to fixing old content

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they think good game design = people's past efforts

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so they have good ideas that they cross off because they're worried about devaluing someone's time spent 4 years ago

graceful crest
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yeah god forbid you replace barrows gloves

lusty garnet
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and they need to understand that is wrong

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its good to try to protect people's time investment but

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when it comes down to direct conflict with a better game

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they should make the game better

strange jolt
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“Does this change improve the overall player experience, make it worse, or keep it the same”
Should be like… 99% of the decision making criteria imo

lusty garnet
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yeah basically making sure you don't devalue people's efforts when you can is an excellent idea

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its just a secondary objective

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but they treat it like the main objective

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its just weird because they're super close to getting it right and then just dont occasionally

knotty pond
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i think its important they keep progression intact somehow. Eye was way to strong and oathplate was as well. that being said I also think some things deserved to be devalued. i think bridging the gap between shadow and trident was good just not this much. oathplate in a weaker form would have been decent to.

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im also very open to them devalueing grinds like buffing rates at chambers/changing rates around. my point is its important part of creating new items. the worst case would be raids 4 megarare just signifcantly devalueing one of the previous ones

graceful crest
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tbow and shadow are going down in price either way

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depending on how much use they will have in the raid it self

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which i doubt will be a lot

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tbow at 1.6 roughly now I can see it go back down to like 1.2

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scythe is going down no matter what

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but honestly i don't think that's terrible as long as they're all above the 1b mark or close to it, you shouldn't just balance around price as long as they have their use cases

knotty pond
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idm to much those items have a very established foundation at many pieces of content and have shown domiance. esp if its a melee megarare ur not hopping off using shadow/tbow at cox/toa etc

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i feel like scythe could be really good for new raid its best crush weapon in the game

graceful crest
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no but like 80% of raiders at least are all going to be grinding raids4 for a while

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so the demand for the other items will drop

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if scythe is bis pre new weapon it will retain its value for a short while

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could go up even and the new weapon will probably sit around 2b or max cash for a while depending on how rare it is

ripe meadow
gentle lance
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considering this raid is going to be huge, could easily add multiple high end rewards similar to cox. Was thinking upgrading the god spells which would tie into a future new bis mage cape. Would make sense for the next mage cape to be something where you're forced into using the spells again and an upgrade would fit as bis there.

New mage staff: (casts all god spells) buffs damage of god spells and adds effects. Zamorak will apply a burn, saradomin can heal a percentage of damage dealt, guthix can stun. max hit would be around 60-65.

think a high damage single target stun could be a huge dps boost at a lot of places, zamorak burn would be a nice touch to make up for lost thrall damage being on normal spellbook and idk saras just there never liked it anyway.

graceful crest
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pretty sure bis mage cape is being reserved for 3rd iteration of inferno/colo type content

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aspirational cape

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mage training 3 would kinda suck unless mage training 3 IS the 3rd iteration

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but i doubt a 3rd iteration of that type of content locks you into god spells when inferno/colo are interesting because of the flexibility of items you can use

gentle lance
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true, but it could be a soft lock like those guardians from ma2 being part of the waves and you just do bit reduced damage on it if you use something else.

proven minnow
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Mage arena 3 would be a cool theme for the next wave based content.

graceful crest
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not if you're forced to use god spells

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one of the things that make inferno replayble and why people like it is because of the challenges you can do with gear

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aka combat level challenges, rcb capes etc..

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scythe/melee only

proven minnow
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I don't think it should force you into god spells

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God spells are pretty balls so it'd feel bad when your used to really good weapons, and it'd make it just as easy to do on an early game character as an endgame one

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So yeah let you use whatever gear you want

strange jolt
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I’m curious to see what the next blog details in terms of potential rewards.
Hopefully it’s not delayed too much with their current situation they’re dealing with

ripe meadow
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If they want to release in 2026 then hopefully they start sooner rather than later to give time for revisions. Doom had to go through what, 3 iterations to get rewards in the right spot? A raid with 6+ different uniques is going to need at least that much time to cook.

graceful crest
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wont be until after leagues

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or close to the end of it

lusty garnet
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i just hope that jagex keeps talking to us but right now they're probably gonna take a solid week off if by monday

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people are still going crazy about the price stuff

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im sure they dont exactly want to start a community discussion only to be told to shut up and stop stealing our money lol

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even though the devs aren't the people in charge of pricing

graceful crest
#

yeah they are just gonna wait for leagues

meager plover
#

Since the reward blog mentioned wanting a 5-tick Crush megarare for the fourth raid, we should finally use the Mjolnirs (Saradomin/Guthix/Zamorak) from the Enchanted Key miniquest. They are already classed as Crush weapons but currently have no real use.

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Zamorak_mjolnir

The Idea
The Fractured Archive drops a rare upgrade item (like a Voltaic Core) that you attach to any of the three Mjolnirs. This creates a high-tier "True Mjolnir" with megarare stats to compete with the Scythe on Crush.

How it works

Base: Use the existing Saradomin, Guthix, or Zamorak Mjolnirs. Perdu could sell them back to players who finished the quest so they aren't "one-time" items.

Stats: Buff them to 5-tick speed with high Crush and Strength bonuses.

Special Attacks: Give each God version a unique spec based on their affiliation (like Godswords).

Potential Specs

Saradomin: High accuracy hit that restores Prayer points based on damage dealt = PVE

Zamorak: A "Bolt" spec that rolls against the opponent's Magic defense instead of Melee defense (good for cracking high-def bosses or PvP).

Guthix: A utility spec that lowers the target's highest combat stat or provides a temporary defensive "static" shield.

Why this fits
Jagex said Crush is underserved at the top end. This revitalizes a forgotten quest item, fits the "Archive" lore perfectly, and there is even an "Ancient Mjolnir" in the game files they could finally use for a Zarosian version which would only drop in the hardest modes and allow switching between the 3

It keeps the Old School feel of upgrading existing gear rather than just adding a random new mace.

ripe meadow
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Oh man trying to find and balance 3 mechanics rather than 1 for a megarare seems overly ambitious.

strange jolt
#

Also megarares should be useable outright, not as an attachment, which they also addressed in the blog. So there’s several misses there

trim knot
warped idol
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raids 4 mega-rare idea:
2h weapon
crush & stab dual weapon
4 tick speed

stat values:
stab +94
slash 0
crush +94
range 0
mage -10
strength bonus +89
prayer +2

weapon effect:

  • attacks with crush AND stab per attack roll (1 crush & 1 stab roll)
  • 0 successful rolls = 0
  • 1 successful rolls = damage + 5
    - alternative = damage x 1.15
  • 2 successful rolls = (damage x 0.5) + ((damage x 0.5) + 10 = bleed/burn)

in essence:

  • 1 big hit for 1 successful roll
  • 1 small hit & applies bleed/burn for 2 successful rolls

i havent put any real effort into this idea. but i hope it helps people think of something outside of the standard "hit harder/faster/accurately" mantra.

glass shadow
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Not another 2h melee megarare😵 😕 1-handed that can be worn with Ghommal's hilt plz

strange jolt
#

pls dont tie a megarare's dps to a DOT affect like bleed/burn

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terrible idea because in many cases, youre not going to get the full value of it, but its still usually taken at full value when looking at dps calcs because thats the 'easiest' approach to balancing even if its not accurate

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I do like a duel stab/crush mega though. Maybe one that rolls against whichever is the lower defense roll of the NPC, but then youre potentially taking away reward space for raid 6 in 2039

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or maybe rolls your stab acc/damage against the target's stab roll + does the same for crush

And whichever of the two deals more damage, is your final damage roll? Maybe with a bonus if both rolls are the same

sage pier
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The fractured chain idea is pretty refreshing and cool

graceful crest
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i dont think we need another multi hitsplat melee weapon, if there is a new melee mega rare the two can be balanced around bosses having negative flat armour which would benefit scythe

ripe meadow
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multihit does help scythe scale more with strength than a typical weapon (1.75 max hits per 4 str compared to 1:4). Part of what makes scythe an appealing late game weapon is how it makes your other gear more impactful too. Doesn't have to be multi-hit to do enhanced scaling (SRA does it somewhat too) but something to keep in mind.

strange jolt
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Obligatory call out that the formula for max hits is not 1:4 It only commonly ends up that way because of rounding, and that’s assuming piety and 99 str with no multipliers like salve or void

As an example, the max hit breakpoints that we current experience in game are at 131, 135, 140

The last jump being a difference of 5 str

jaunty river
#

Hopefully there’s a blog about rewards soon before we end up with fang v2

ripe meadow
#

Can you explain why you feel fang is a failure? I think bad feelings about fang mostly come down to how common it is on the drop table, if it was rarer it would be a chase item.

jaunty river
#

that's it really i guess, it should be way less common

graceful crest
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its probably over hated just how TOA is where TOA is in a pretty healthy spot albeit if its boring

ripe meadow
#

TOA is weird compared to the other raids because the scaling drop chance is such that for most people the experience is once you get proficient at the raid, you start making it hard on yourself again rather than optimizing doing it faster.

graceful crest
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sure but people are scaling cox for more points at the expense of time as well

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i agree the most fun thing is optimising your macro at a raid like tob to get faster and faster

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tho

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main gripes with TOA were chip damage, i think 500's with shadow are super comfy now

ripe meadow
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If fang was as rare as DHCB or rapier it'd be much more valuable & people would be excited about it still. Getting rarities right for the drop table is hard, theres more to a sucessful item launch than just getting the mechanics right.

graceful crest
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Yeah it was just too common

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but not even just from the purple chest distribution alone

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raid level 0's and 150s dropping loot like its nothing was a massive problem

ripe meadow
#

IIRC they addressed that in the rebalance post last year showing that <150s were very minor contributions to total volume and it was mostly 400+ scales being too generous for purp chance.

graceful crest
#

i mean it wasnt the first time they've addressed loot I swear they did something a while back before as well?

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i remember it being cracke don launch

ripe meadow
#

I didnt experience launch I think you may be right.

graceful crest
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The changes last year were a little too late

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like its put the raid in a healthier spot for sure but fang was already like 9m

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anyways i see way more people farming toa than I do for cox generally

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at mass worlds at least

sage pier
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The spear idea is pretty cool too, able to do all attack styles well, two tile attack range, and a special that’s still useful but not overpowered

proven minnow
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If it's able to do all 3 attack styles it's either trash or good in way too many areas

graceful crest
#

there's nothing cool about a spear in design

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"oh look at me hiding behind my big ass shield whilst I poke you to death"

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probably the most boring weapon in the world concept wise

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give me a big juicy bonk stick

proven minnow
#

I still think gauntlets are the coolest idea. They can still hit real big and it'd feel dope to just punch mobs till they die

steady lantern
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Fists of Guthix

lusty garnet
#

i think the biggest thing standing in the way of fist weapons is just that its so much easier to fulfill the fantasy of the big bonk weapon

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also i think that fist weapon animations might be kind of hard to pull off for osrs

trim knot
#

I want 2H spiked boxing gloves as the main crush weapon

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maybe consume an avernic for bonus stats

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if ur 2 tiles away, ur next auto also blinks/dashes at the target

graceful crest
#

there's no reason why a fist weapon can't work in the game but it'd fit more as a niche thing

proven minnow
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For what reason would it have to be niche? You could make a fist weapon work tons of ways.

steady lantern
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People are asking because Goliath gloves used to be a thing, BiS melee gloves when equipped with a weapon, crush wep when no weapon is equipped

hard swallow
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3t bis crush woooo

fair birch
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nvm found it ty so much thats the one