Yama

[opal kite]

we are at the limit with piety

[loud flicker]

keep the updates lvl

if we want to change armor, then focus on armor

[opal kite]

once t90 prayers come out ags could hit that 95 with 10m risk who knows

[loud flicker]

at that point they will adjust it

that's generally how it works

[swift lava]

Again, you’re entire suggestion is around PvP and you’re putting forward non cohesive and disingenuous arguments as to how it’d benefit pvm also when it would be a net negative for reasons discussed in excess

[loud flicker]

they introduce something that fucks the meta and then dial it back

[opal kite]

the only way we can hit new end game prayers instead of hitting the prayer limit which we did 18years ago with piety is redistribution

[loud flicker]

and yeah this blog is for yama and not pvp lmao

[swift lava]

If your issue is with power in PvP, then adjust its power in PvP

[loud flicker]

make a #1022203837265756231

[sudden falcon]

this is literally waffle ass logic because ranged/mage got way more dps than melee over the years and here you are saying piety bad

[opal kite]

did changing the occult from 10% to 5% and giving all magic armour dmg benefit pvm?

[loud flicker]

But i've seen your suggestions before and it's just one sided for pvp without understanding impact elsewhere

[opal kite]

it benefited the game and progression and made things have value

its literally the same god damn thing lmao

[loud flicker]

No but it solved a longstanding issue on the chokehold of mage dps

and that's why it was okay

they introduced new gear and or adjusted rates

gear to gear

[opal kite]

exactly we have a chokehold on melee str bonus rn because of piety

[loud flicker]

not gear to prayer

[opal kite]

just adding a couple of str bonus changes so much because of it

[loud flicker]

if piety is equippable lmk

[opal kite]

which is why yall as wanting a free buff to ur scythes

[loud flicker]

if not this convo is useless

pvm isn't pvp lmao

[swift lava]

No, it was a net negative to pvm in the sense that it requires more switches for same result. But it was necessary because of how magic scaling works, particularly around shadow

[swift lava]

You have that in PvP and PvP only

Because max hp is capped

[loud flicker]

They can literally (although it's hard on their side) tweak prayers in the wildy without affecting pvm

[swift lava]

Adding 2 str to Torva doesn’t give any max hits on scythe fyi. We’re 4 away from the next max

[loud flicker]

which would get the result you want

[opal kite]

honeslty in a perfect world piety should be nerfed to like 12% then we have like +50 str bonus to give to all melee items in the game but thats the huge job, doing it to 20% is tiny and allows bodys and legs to get a tiny increase they deserve what is so hard and bad to understand about it

[swift lava]

Adding 2 str on Torva simply positions it to where the set has a net 2 base max hits over the oath set so that both sit adjacent in pvm

Rather than Torva behind oath

[frail hazel]

Legit getting ragebaited

[loud flicker]

Again, they aren't going to fix prayer by focusing on gear

apples to apples not apples to organges

if they hit a new tier of prayers, that's when they will look at current bis

[swift lava]

In a perfect world, items and prayers work different in PvP than in pvm because monsters can have thousands of hp and players are limited to 121

Meaning PvP bottlenecks progression

[sudden falcon]

I despise idiotic logic more than anything else. It's fine to be biased if you can legitimately explain why it makes sense.

He says you shouldn't be able to get so much damage "risk-free" and how there's too much damage, but then he says he's okay with giving 2 max hits to torva but taking 1 way from piety.

[opal kite]

bad game design when they dont need too when we have so much free space to give str bonus to with bodys and legs

[swift lava]

They have plenty of space to do that without touching piety btw

[opal kite]

they really dont

[swift lava]

They do, by a pretty significant margin

[opal kite]

nope

[swift lava]

Outside of the limited scope that is PvP

[opal kite]

why do you think piety is the oldest bis in the game of 18years?

[quasi ether]

let's chill with the insults

[swift lava]

Same reason rigour and augury has been bis for 8

Because prayers are meant to be unilateral improvements to combat

[quasi ether]

occult would've been changed whether shadow existed or not

[opal kite]

actually they came out in 2010 originally

[swift lava]

Same reason why jewelry disproportionally buffs combat than armor

[sudden falcon]

yes

[swift lava]

They did not. Equivalent prayers, sure

Chambers of Xerics did not exist until 2017

[sudden falcon]

pvp is only an issue because of 99-121 hp

everything else is fine because they boss creep up

[loud flicker]

yama is only 2500 hp 👍

clearly needs to nerf dps

[opal kite]

im not saying any numbers exactly cause i dont know the numbers but in general torva shoud do more then it should and piety should do less the it should seen as its risk free early game mega rare

[frail hazel]

Piety is a mega rare?

[swift lava]

With natural and expected powecreep, even if it moves at a snail’s pace, you eventually arrive at a point where you need to have separation between PvP and pvm

Because hp is limited

[sudden falcon]

Both Crystal and virtus added more consistent dps to PvP than Torva/melee gear

[swift lava]

Suggesting that you can balance both without exceptions between the two is short sighted

[prime thistle]

Its not actually limited though they'll start adding damage reduction to more gear

[opal kite]

thats a different topic but they are clearly working on a counter with this with flat armour that reduces hit splats

[frail hazel]

Flat armour is a pvm mechanic no

[prime thistle]

They kinda already showed us they'll do that instead of adding hp to armor

[opal kite]

for now

[frail hazel]

Don't think they'll ever add it to pvp

I mean ur just speculating, it'd be dumb in pvp

[opal kite]

they will have to if max hits get so higher and if we want more end game prayers

[sudden falcon]

Can we please just call it damage reduction

[prime thistle]

I'm pretty sure it's already there unless ely and justi just dont work

[opal kite]

ely works

[prime thistle]

I dont mean flat armor either

[swift lava]

If they ended up letting flat armor work in PvP, anything that would have it would require reasonable def levels so it’d just be a point of contention regardless 🤣

[prime thistle]

Its kind of an obvious turn that has to eventually happen though since you know

[swift lava]

“Pures already have lower KO potential and now we’re fighting flat armor”

[prime thistle]

Str bonus just cant keep going forever

With no reaction

[frail hazel]

Quite a bit away, but yeah at some point make it work differently for pvp

[opal kite]

if a prayer required higher attack levels and higher prayer levels its balanced fine

[frail hazel]

Can't have it work the same way and not be cancer for either pvp or pvm

[sudden falcon]

We literally said buff the prayer levels or lock it behind a prayer scroll and you’re still nonsensically saying still nerf it afterwards

[opal kite]

exactly

[opal kite]

im not against that idea, but that will give so much more uproar and would change PvM alot more then giving piety a tiny nerf if you now suddenly need to do alot more to get the same power

[sudden falcon]

And yet they do this shit with ranged/shadow and people clap like seals

[frail hazel]

🦭

[prime thistle]

I just mean in the context of pvp

[sudden falcon]

+3 ranged str out of the blue

Like wtf is that

[sudden falcon]

Just make overhealing a thing in pvp

This was the consequence of shifting from conservative releases to toa

[prime thistle]

Its simple though they just balance it out with some dr on pvp armor like every other game ever

To get people trapped in progressing forever to do the same damage

[dull beacon]

Flat armor for pvp makes sense, lowering max hits kinda needs to happen

Pvp is on the razors edge of being unplayable with the nuclear bomb levels of damage available

With 0 way to reduce that damage

[frail hazel]

U know what's funny, rs3 was a few years earlier on ramping up powercreep and it got to a point I took a break because it was too Mickey mouse. I start getting into tob from Colo onwards and it's just been giga upgrade after giga upgrade

[dull beacon]

It also insentivizes not wearing rags in pvp

[frail hazel]

Duo tob diary went from 2130 to (probably) 2000 in just a year or so

Which is insane

[opal kite]

exactly why giving piety a tiny nerf would give us more time to work with haha my whole point as people dont usually risk torva, giving the remaining str bonus to torva keeps it the same for pvm

[sudden falcon]

Yeah, I know it’ll cause problems but holding back melee and allowing ranged/mage to go buck wild is dumb.

[dull beacon]

Nerfing piety is a silly way to try addressing this when flat armor already exists

[sudden falcon]

It’s like saying you get a rocket launcher and I get a blowpipe with toothpicks

[frail hazel]

Tbf they've been releasing content where melee is good or best

[sudden falcon]

[opal kite]

not like a huge nerf tho 3% is marginal in pvm but huge in pvp and leaves more room in future for end game prayers

[dull beacon]

Nerfing piety at all

[frail hazel]

How is a 3% nerf huge in pvp

[opal kite]

because that 3% will be given to expensive armours that people dont usually bring

[frail hazel]

U lose like a max no?

[opal kite]

3-4 on some spec weapons

[dull beacon]

Give barrows armor and justicar a chunky flat armor, boom, now you've made room for 10-15 more max hits

[sudden falcon]

It’s not a huge nerf, which is why it’s even stupider of an idea of tacking it onto melee armor stat reworks

[sudden falcon]

Justi not working on half the modern mechanics is a bigger problem that flat armor will not solve

[dull beacon]

Making it a pvp tank armor at least gives it a niche

[prime thistle]

you probably wouldn't even really want to do it like that for pvp

[opal kite]

thats true but still leaves torva in a shit ceiling with all melee armours str bonus scrunched up, also makes it where if you dont have barrows armour you just cant pvp so basically 70def med is now minimum more broken low level account by far

[prime thistle]

you'd need to make pvp only armor basically so it could have relatively low defensive stats alongside its damage reduction

so that people weren't hitting brick walls that cant die

but max hits weren't completely off the rails insane

basically you want pvp to be fast but you don't want people to die to unavoidable combos from 115 hp

[dull beacon]

I don't understand why defense being shit is a sacred cow that can't be touched, given that 70 defense tank accounts or maxed mains are ALREADY the best

And low level pures are just dicking around with nuclear bombs anyways

[prime thistle]

its because the gameplay honestly is giga ass when people can tank

like if you watched the dmm allstars thing where everyone had a passive dinhs on but they banned a lot of the interesting high dps options

thats what you dont want to see

people just hitting 0s on robes

[dull beacon]

Lower armors 'evasion' ramp its damage reducton through flat armor

[opal kite]

defence really isnt shit because 70def makes you actually tanky af and also give more so more dps just from them prayers locked behind it hence why its the mroe brocken mandiatory build

[prime thistle]

you'd have people legit running from 55 wild to the ditch tanking you if they let people have actual defensive gear

thats why they nerf stuff all the time that people tank with

their biggest issue is that they dont use stats in a way that lets them control the max hits without turning people into actual walls of hp that cannot die

[dull beacon]

Sounds like pvp and pvm need a full decoupling

Sounds like i've heard this idea before

On the pvm side, swinging for over 100 damage with a super slow weapon isn't exactly a problem

[prime thistle]

yeah thats kinda why i think it needs to be a pvp only set of gear

that just does things like reduce max hits when you fight players but it does nothing in pvm

[opal kite]

there's so much that can be done or should be done, it's a huge job to do everything to make things balance good and perfect, so many different directions they can go down

but just giving piety/rig a tiny nerf and giving that spare left over str bonus to armours instead is a tiny job with a maximum amount of effect, it helps so much whilst costing a little amount of time

[dull beacon]

I disagree with nerfing prayers at all

The game shouldn't be balanced that way

[swift lava]

If you only rebalance it to torva you’re nerfing everyone who pvms with less than max, which is what you said earlier wouldn’t be a result

😭😭

[opal kite]

nah i never said just torva, obvs inq and bandos would get str bonus aswell

[dull beacon]

I'd rather chip away max damage in pvp with flat armor than affect everyone who pvms because pvp is an unbalanced shithole

[opal kite]

armours that deserve the extra str bonus

[swift lava]

.

[opal kite]

was literally reply to a guy about pvp never once stated torva only just didnt want to type every single melee armour out in the game

[opal kite]

wouldnt say it affects anyone in pvm as they get getting that str bonus back on the body and legs, the same thing already happened with magic

dragon could even get a +1 str bonus now we have more room to work with if everything slides up

[dull beacon]

Do that anyways then

And leave prayers alone

Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas

Rebalance the t80 4 ticks as well

Because they kinda suck

I just disagree with randomly nerfing prayers for someones idea of a perfect minmax to armor

[opal kite]

wouldnt say its randomly tho i think it is way to strong anyway for level 70 prayer and for the place you get it in game, the power of piety is around level is 85 prayer like i said imo, tiny nerf gives more room for future prayers better without them being way to strong

jagex had to nerf the occult because there was no way they could add another magic amulet in the game otherwise

[dull beacon]

Occult was fine, every other piece of magic gear is shit

And shadow makes that worse

Piety is fine, the entire melee combat design is balanced around it

[prime thistle]

tbh they could've released the 4x occult and it wouldn't have done anything besides buff shadow

although shadow isn't even really the problem its the solution to everything else jagex does wrong

their big problem is that they wont fix magic in general

and have to create random items to kind of address everything they refuse to acknowledge exists

[dull beacon]

Elidinis F is a tragedy

That shield deserves something like 15-20% magic damage

[prime thistle]

the funny thing about magic is jagex is like

actually insane when it comes to the combat style

oh you want an offhand better go grind a raid and then corp so you can combine them

oh you want magic boosts? lmao silly idiot get an imbued heart

elemental weaknesses? LOL loot a harm orb

lmao its insane

the armor is the same way too

virtus? yeah afk some bosses for wildly excessive kc to maybe get it

[dull beacon]

Man, fuck virtus

[prime thistle]

or grind cox

even the boots are funny

they send your ass to MTA

[dull beacon]

Ancestral should have like 5-10% magic damage on its own per piece

Eldinis ward should be 15-20%

Actually give magic room to fuck around and give upgrades that don't suck ass

Magic pots need to be unfucked entirely

[sudden falcon]

nah, we should redistribute non-existent stats /s

[dull beacon]

[sudden falcon]

For real though, augury often being the same max hit as vigour and MM and only slight accuracy diff is atrocious.

2/3/3 - MM/MV/Augury btw

Just another example of how... flattened the progression and negative it is when they keep trying to add middle grounds that don't need it

[dull beacon]

A decade of inching, followed by a new deade of people sick of it

[sudden falcon]

And if we're continuing to go down the powercreep/toa route, they need to fix the previous balance choices yeah

[pastel swan]

the pieces also shouldnt give identical %

i still think occult was only an issue because they never decided to release a 5% amulet

literally every other amulet has cracked stats that is just how they work lol

[dull beacon]

3 max melee hits we sleep

3 max mage hits, real shit

Nerf

[pastel swan]

anguish was the only range str bonus gear for a while im pretty sure

and assembler was only +2

[subtle canopy]

humble reminder boss came out less than a month ago

[somber rover]

In 2028 they might fix it though 😀

[unkempt moat]

Ye

Hoping for this

Gotta rename it so it passes tho

And it will probably be an override similar to deadeye

[glass shoal]

As long as they keep the same animation

Animation is SO sick

[unkempt moat]

Rlly wouldnt mind all 3 offensive prayers + that 50% spec accuracy prayer

[subtle canopy]

Tldr ember reduces defence by 1

Rip embeds 😭

[dull beacon]

[subtle canopy]

ah seems like hotfixed already

wild QA though

[prime thistle]

im ngl

you could probably put up curses 1:1 with what they were and it would pass

no rename needed

i think you'd get a lot of people sort of online outraged at soul split and they should be but

i dont actually think the general voting population cares at all lol

they'd just see big new prayers to use and hit yes

[wheat iron]

Ye i said the same yday lol

Wild that this doesn't concern them at all

[subtle canopy]

yea its a little crazy

in like, the "ideal situation"
1600kc brings in 8 pieces of oath

it also brings in:
0.7shards per kc =1120 shards
~1.7shards per lockbox (~48.5 for 1600kc) totalling= 80shards

including contracts, we also have:
1 oathplate contracts = 1pc oath
3 shard contracts = 135 shards
(assuming the acqui contracts are only purchased by people who can complete them which isn't unreasonable to assume at this point)

so we have 8 pieces of oath coming into the game
1 coming in through an oath acqui contract
and ~3 coming in through shards/adjacent shard content

for the humble total of 1/3 of all oathplate coming into the game through alternative means

12 pcs of oath coming in at 1600kc wws

1/200 effectively 1/133-1/145

shards being untradeable means the people could only cash out after ~650 solos worth of kc

wcyd

[sharp nacelle]

If armor stays 250-300m then it’s alright, agree on shards though

[proper ivy]

what is considdered the easiest yama contract?