#Quest, Delve Boss & Slayer Dungeon Rewards - Varlamore: The Final Dawn

16815 messages · Page 17 of 17 (latest)

simple delta
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or 1-down warden

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hp scaling is directly tied to purple chance if u looked at the drop rate formula

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they didnt want toa to be a 5 minute raid for 400s

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which again ties into how solo vs team is balanced

uneven totem
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Day 464 of explaining to Tass

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He just has a preference which is fine but is also known to be a bad player

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And that’s ok

simple delta
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i know more about game balance than most xdd

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and he's just being ignorant

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and dense

slate harness
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It’s ok he used like 5 blood furies the first weekend that colo was out, he’s a wise gamer that definitely uses his resources well

uneven totem
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If you just check the way he talks, he does it to bait “hlc”

pearl lichen
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I hope it's not practically soloable. It genuinely restricts design too much that it just ends up making it worse for groups (for whom it was designed in the first place)

simple delta
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The only reason why Royal Titas worked is because they added enough organic mechanics that slowed down kills in solos AND they made pet chance static, which is what 90% of HLC players was going for.

simple delta
uneven totem
simple delta
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That's why it was good

uneven totem
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Solo should be like 2.5x harder

pearl lichen
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Agreed

slate harness
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My titans kills didn’t feel much if at all slower than two duos idk

uneven totem
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But that’s midgame so it is whatever

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Titans still a fine addition

vocal plaza
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It’s def faster in duos by a good bit

simple delta
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It's 2.5x faster

vocal plaza
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In duos I just let my friend kill his titan by himself to get half contribution. While I did all the mechanics

simple delta
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On average it's like 40s versus 100s or 1:40 solo

vocal plaza
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Since he was a mid game iron

slate harness
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I mean I think I was just duoing with people in worse gear yeah

simple delta
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The lowest I've seen in solo is like 1:05 and lowest in duo is 30s for money kc

slate harness
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I also don’t even have a scythe

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I was just rapiering

pearl lichen
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I like tob for that reason as well, is clearly designed for trio+ hence the scaling stops at trio. If u want to go lower in team size u can but it's way more effort

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Rooms don't change

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Which is good

simple delta
vocal plaza
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I personally hate nylo and wish I max hit every time I hit it’s weakness

simple delta
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Like, one of my biggest pet peeves about ToA is if the team dies

vocal plaza
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Fking noodle on stuff with d darts

simple delta
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I'm stuck with 14k hp to solo

pearl lichen
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😂

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Start flicking

simple delta
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but verzik is only 3.4k?

uneven totem
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Tassili hates tryna adjust to spawns

slate harness
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Imagine having to react to the game

uneven totem
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Is skill issue but nothing new on his behalf

vocal plaza
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How does adjusting to spawns stop me from hitting 0s with max gear

uneven totem
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Means you adjust to hit newer spawns or splits and move on

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Using your brain is good

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If you don’t understand that this discussion is dead

vocal plaza
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Yea so I can run around in max range and darts and hit 0s on other stuff

pearl lichen
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Big thing about osrs is reacting to ur hits, simple example is maul/bgs. Miss maul? Go again or back up bgs

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Nylo is like that aspect of the game x1000

simple delta
pearl lichen
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U noodle what do u do, stay on what ur hitting or move on

uneven totem
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Irene is more human than him. Can quote this

vocal plaza
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I only shoot one dart per nylo

uneven totem
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That’s fine if that’s all you can muster

simple delta
slate harness
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And then if it survives you attack it again?

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Oh noooo

vocal plaza
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Nope I hit something else

uneven totem
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Insane

zealous bear
slate harness
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O.O

zealous bear
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That's diabolical

uneven totem
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Idk why bad pvmers are allowed to have input

zealous bear
pearl lichen
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I mean if ur goal is to one shot anything u would just tbow every green thing

vocal plaza
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Glad you think your good

uneven totem
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I’m like half retired at this point

zealous bear
pearl lichen
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But that would be slow

uneven totem
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Compared to you it’s night and day

slate harness
uneven totem
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Zapdos new gen peepo

pearl lichen
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😂😂I'm a zoomer bro

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Looking up to the old heads

vocal plaza
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I’d argue I’m better than you. Because I don’t waste my time on useless crap.

uneven totem
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Mickey Mouse tech

zealous bear
pearl lichen
zealous bear
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Please drop the duo battle

slate harness
simple delta
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u play an iron xdd

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tf u mean

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u dont waste time on useless crap

uneven totem
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He avges 20 min trios 😭

simple delta
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did u still give on ancestral and camping virtus still

vocal plaza
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Oh no going fast means I’m skilled damn.

uneven totem
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In this game? Yes actually

zealous bear
slate harness
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I forgot that killing something more effectively has nothing to do with skill

simple delta
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it means u can handle different strats and understand how the boss actually works beyond a superficial level, yes

sharp escarp
simple delta
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time invested is not skill, which is why pet hunting or clogging often isn't skillful RatConcerned

uneven totem
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Bro how does someone new to the convo all agree with us. At some point you have to realize that’s you’re 100% in the wrong

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It’s not good to be ignorant

vocal plaza
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Fact you take the bait every time is why

simple delta
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its funny u say team toas is no-lifing, but you probably have 20k hours logged on the iron RatConcerned

uneven totem
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I read and respond accordingly

slate harness
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Ah yes

uneven totem
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I don’t care if it’s bait or not but by this point all you’ve shown is you’re a bad pvmer with limited knowledge

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So if that’s a win for you gz

vocal plaza
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Yea have beaten the hardest challenges on the game has made me bad lol

slate harness
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^

uneven totem
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Anyone can do most challenges

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It’s optimizing them and pushing time

slate harness
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Are you even GM

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I'm not

uneven totem
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That’s the skill

simple delta
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this is like russia saying I was just baiting after losing battle after battle xdd

zealous bear
simple delta
zealous bear
slate harness
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I don't think he's GM

image.png
pearl lichen
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bane getting egod in 2025 jesus

uneven totem
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😬

vocal plaza
# slate harness Are you even GM

Requires garbage time commitment to group with these subhuman elitest to do group content. All for no rewards and endless reclaiming when a new boss comes out.

slate harness
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@vocal plaza Why don't you try doing some of the in-game challenges you claim you can do

simple delta
uneven totem
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This game is time commitment so you said absolutely nothing

simple delta
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You don't have to pot with people who have it done already

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Pot with other people who need it

vocal plaza
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It’s not worth the effort which is shared with my friends I play with. You making a lot of assumptions.

uneven totem
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I don’t have gm either dw

vocal plaza
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I play real mmos that require people. Rs is not one of them.

simple delta
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wow is not one either xdd

slate harness
zealous bear
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calls people elitists
calls rs not a real mmo

simple delta
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it's all the same shit - have 5+ people that won't stand in fire

uneven totem
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This guy has thousands of hours in osrs and plays real mmos

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Loser irl fr

vocal plaza
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Nice projection.

slate harness
vocal plaza
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Make sure you don’t lose a tick next time you bank or else you might pop a blood vessel

uneven totem
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He can’t defend anything

pearl lichen
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good chuckles, anyways what are we even talking about atp

slate harness
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Not the delve boss

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That's for sure

zealous bear
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unlucky embed Why

uneven totem
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I don’t mald losing ticks 🤣

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I simply don’t lose ticks

vocal plaza
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No1 talk about delve boss since Yama announced 😦

pearl lichen
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delve's going to come after yama right

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like way after

simple delta
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think so

zealous bear
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i think at this point yea

simple delta
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ngl, I confuse delve and yama all the time because yama is also endgame

zealous bear
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yama has flushed out reward space and delves kinda in the bin rn

uneven totem
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Yama around May, Delve mid Summer

acoustic mesa
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delve boss is somewhere in july, yama is sometime in the next 3.5 months

uneven totem
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Probably July/aug

zealous bear
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i hope they adjust slash torva SCevil

acoustic mesa
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I assume delve boss releases with varlamore part 3

zealous bear
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but mb im minority opinion idk

simple delta
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just make it

uneven totem
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I just hope no spec pot gets released

simple delta
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drops as useable gear, but then upgradeable with torva

uneven totem
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They changed it from -7 to -6 str

zealous bear
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its basically just better than torva everywhere

simple delta
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fuseable with torva for no str loss

zealous bear
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and you just camp torva helm w top and bottom to not lose threshhold

simple delta
uneven totem
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If the delve boss adds melee maxes then it’s not entirely lost

acoustic mesa
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don't worry I'm on a one-person crusade against untradable potions and no one else cares enough to raise a fuss

we all have our white whales

simple delta
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and it was stlil better

hazy jetty
simple delta
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I'm really hoping Delve just drops a +5% mage cape xdd

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fuck it we ball

uneven totem
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Icic

zealous bear
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idrc about the tradeable/untradable potions but i just dont want 15s 120 overloads

slate harness
simple delta
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but anyone who can properly brew on 15, knows

zealous bear
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somebody said like divine/imbued stats and 30s timer

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and thats like miles more balanced

vocal plaza
zealous bear
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you're making inventory economy a complete non-issue

simple delta
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even 30s is fine

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busted

zealous bear
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30s would be still very good

simple delta
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cuz its 32 hp no damage loss

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per minute

uneven totem
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The pot is ass currently. Either adjust it or remove it

slate harness
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What about 1t refresh (jokes)

uneven totem
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But playerbase gonna vote yes on it regardless

slate harness
acoustic mesa
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unless it's a nerf lol

vocal plaza
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Hope it’s untradeable pot so everyone can go suffer for efficiency

uneven totem
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It’s a nerf to how you can approach speeds but besides that’s it’s minor in most cases

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Due to the 5 min cooldown

vocal plaza
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Make normies play the game. Stop letting them buy their way past every update.

uneven totem
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What Tanz said earlier would be ideal

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Tassili stay talking to the wind

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Random Reddit ant chatting

vocal plaza
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I don’t go Reddit or any social media

uneven totem
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You’d be their hero

slate harness
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Tassili is unknowingly (or knowingly) an AI created and trained off Reddit responses and posts

simple delta
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I'm the last dude you should be saying this to.

vocal plaza
uneven totem
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(Skill issue)

slate harness
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It's ok guys he did all the challenges in this game

uneven totem
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ALL

vocal plaza
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Yea skill issue indeed not having access to unlimited orbs is def a skill issue.

hazy jetty
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you only need 4 orbs any more is a skill issue

slate harness
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I mean it literally is though

vocal plaza
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It is. The entire game is practice and everything in it is doable by anyone willing to practice it. Something’s just aren’t worth the effort to learn.

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Time cost vs benefit analysis

uneven totem
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You do realize that’s what we mean by skill issue yes

slate harness
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I personally don't like how blorva looks but I would never discount the challenge

vocal plaza
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Yea your saying I can’t do it

uneven totem
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You also realize you explained the mentality for speeds yes? Practice makes perfect

slate harness
simple delta
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btw, speeds isn't just rng until u perfect the actual process xdd

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the process is the hardest part

uneven totem
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By his own definition he’s bad

vocal plaza
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And I say I don’t want to do it, because it’s not worth my time to max and account get orbs practice then get orbs on my iron to get a cheaply made cosmetic

uneven totem
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I’m glad he’s self reflecting

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Good progress today

slate harness
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I've done all the challenges that the game has, except the ones I don't think are worth it because I'm not good/practiced enough to do them with the resources I have

vocal plaza
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I’m not denying I’m not bad at things I don’t want to do or have any interest in learning.

pearl lichen
slate harness
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You mean like the hard challenges in this game

vocal plaza
slate harness
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Like actually bossing/raiding efficiently

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And blorva

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And CAs

simple delta
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I didn't like Awakeneds, but I still knocked it out xdd

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fuck Awakened Vard

uneven totem
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So time analysis means 0

slate harness
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I haven't either, but I don't claim I did the apex of challenge in this game

vocal plaza
simple delta
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okay fine, blorva now gives +5 str bonus over torva

uneven totem
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Doesn’t that go against your time analysis

vocal plaza
uneven totem
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It’s if efficient it means you’re using your time effectively

slate harness
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^

simple delta
slate harness
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Efficient raiding literally saves effort because you spend significantly less time in raids

simple delta
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I hope delve doesn't repeat this garbage

vocal plaza
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Cosmetics don’t do it for me as motivation. Like cool I got an ugly black torva so I can look like the rest of the HLC.

slate harness
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"The rest of"

uneven totem
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So by your own logic again, you are wasting more time because you are bad

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I’m glad we had this talk

vocal plaza
uneven totem
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Good insight

slate harness
uneven totem
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He spends less time to due rng

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He checks out the Jagex loves noobs box

vocal plaza
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Ya skill issue if you can’t do a 60 min chambers and pull a tbow

pearl lichen
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yeah dont wanna pile on u tass but u can't say this game is a giant waste of time and then be picky about what content u do based on effort it requires

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is just an excuse

zealous bear
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unluggy

vocal plaza
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True

slate harness
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Why should we get a new raid at all - whether it's like tob or toa or neither - if it's not worth your time to do it in the first place, just do content without

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Going back to the origination of this discussion here

uneven totem
vocal plaza
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Like I said cosmetics aren’t a worthy carrot

uneven totem
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Neither is Ironman mode by your logic

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As it’s a massive sink

slate harness
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Sorry I forgot all the Combat Achievement rewards were cosmetic

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Oh wait

vocal plaza
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Ironman is a self torture as no1 plays this game for fun.

pearl lichen
uneven totem
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You don’t because you’re bad. Most people enjoy games more if they’re good

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I’m glad we figured this out

slate harness
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I hate that the meta is to "hate" this game

simple delta
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SCsmile I wish grandmaster had more perks ngl

uneven totem
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Tassili the dude to go 0-24 in cod and say it’s a good match

simple delta
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gm is literally fucking pet hunter perks

uneven totem
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And play everyday

simple delta
uneven totem
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And complain about timeloss

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While going negative everyday

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Insane mental

vocal plaza
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I have unbreakable mental

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But I’m glad I can bring you out the woodworks by just saying tob is bad.

uneven totem
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Need a therapist to sort out your feelings bud. You have conflicting arguments and somehow you end up using them on yourself 😭

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You have can opinions and that’s ok

empty hare
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Pog more tassili yapping

digital summit
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You’re not averaging 16min overall trios. Max eff probably is avg around 17:15 overall + 60-90sec to bank or so to bank; call it 18:30. you’re prob closer to 21 mins if I were to guess

solos you can easily burger your way through s55 overalls these days, but let’s call it 58 including banking

Outside of the risk and supply use, solo tob is pretty good gp/hr

digital summit
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28 sec avg time save on trio p1

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That number is not an exaggeration

uneven totem
digital summit
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Ye ~440 less hp than 4 man verzik, and you get up to 12 specs + can 3t them

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Trio instantly becomes the fastest p1

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If they get a ton of backlash on the 5min cd for the pots, then can just make them instead have you regen energy 4x faster for 30 sec (does not stack with lb, or does, idc)

So that over a 30sec period, instead of 10 natural regen, you get 40 (surplus of 30) or instead of 20 natural regen with lb, again you get 40 (surplus of 20)

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Or something along those lines

zealous bear
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the humble 3t dawn holy

oak widget
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That’s a lot of spec but adding a pot that regens spec is adding a lot of spec…

digital summit
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So you lose some value in not instantly gaining a spec, and on avg you gain about the same spec per dose, but you can upkeep it

sleek needle
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The way it’s going we won’t be seeing Varlamore of dawn until mid 2026

sharp escarp
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? It's coming this summer

oak widget
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fr, we’re fine, we’ve got plenty of time to iterate on rewards still

simple delta
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Can we get an actual mage spec weapon for pvm?

slate harness
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wym, we have like 3 megarares with niche pvm uses

simple delta
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We should proceed with the mage version of Infernal Cape from Delve, but mage spec weapons are still sorely lacking xdd

slate harness
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And then voidwaker is also a magic spec :^)

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And don’t forget the sara sword!!!

simple delta
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Accursed for lowering mage, Eldritch for sustaining prayer, and Volatile for being useless

slate harness
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As an iron all three mage specs are very unrealistic for me to get

simple delta
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Give me a Red Keris-style mage spec but it guarantees the next 2-3 hit or something shrug

slate harness
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Oh shoot we forgot the purging staff!!!

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:p

simple delta
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im gonna purge myself

woven siren
simple delta
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I started bringing an accursed to on-task kree and it's not that great xdd

slate harness
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What about a magic ancient godsword xd

simple delta
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anything cathelp

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I wouldn't even mind them outright buffing accursed

slate harness
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Same but then I’d just be more sad I’m dry at revs

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Surely combine ancient hilt with eldritch nightmare staff :^) (pls no)

woven siren
simple delta
simple delta
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apply a status effect, 10% more magic damage shrug

woven siren
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i guess sire but i think emberlight > shadow now at sire

simple delta
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yep, but shadow only is still viable because of how chill it is

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no switches needed

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for magic specifically, we don't necessarily need a damage spec because it'll always struggle to compete with shadow

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hence why it should be accuracy check/damage increase focused

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accuracy is good if you want non-shadow options to be even better

woven siren
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but yh a red keris like mage spec to do 25% extra dmg for 15-30secs would be nice tbh but i dont think delve boss is its place as it'd have pretty limited uses prob

simple delta
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Yeah, interested in seeing both yama/delve have actually good rewards that raise the ceiling.

Doesn't make sense if it adds less damage than Araxxor's update did.

empty hare
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i still think rax's drop table is crazy for how easy the boss is

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wonder when we are getting upgraded anguish and torm

oak widget
glad escarp
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i wish yama was totally unsoloable
having to compromise a duo boss to be soloable makes jagex unable to push mechanics to their full potential

simple delta
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I think it still would be limited by nature of it being designed for duos instead of unlimited shrug

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But yes, designing for solo = limited game design xdd

empty hare
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hopefully they are saving that for the new raid

abstract valley
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tbh i think a lot of what people ask them to do for group content on reddit like making a tank role is really dumb

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lol i suppose its because its so obvious if you play other mmos but the cool part about osrs is that you dont have classes or roles and can do anything

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that kind of game design is actually somewhat reductive because at a basic level the reason you have the classic tank/healer/dps setup is because the specs simply cannot do everything so they're forced into it

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and osrs doesn't actually work that way at all jagex can make a bunch of stuff work because they can reasonably expect you to deal with everything instead of setting it up so certain mechanics dont apply to you because your role cannot handle them

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thats why pretty much every role based thing in osrs is either accidental where players just kind of optimize who does what later on like in tob

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or they're arguably not even really the same game like BA where someone at jagex essentially created classes and hard locked people into different gameplay

empty hare
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Yeah roles should be organic

slate harness
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Collector: Red Eggs!

scarlet adder
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And that's coming from a pure nolife tank pwat

hushed wing
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this man doesnt wanna see justi and ely succeed

oak widget
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Idk what lessons you can take from Maiden and Nylos to make roles a thing, pretty sure on release Maiden was just 4x freeze because you didn’t have 100% accuracy at first so a dedicated freeze wasn’t it

simple delta
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The problem with making justi ely relevant for tank roles is that it means there’s going to be so much chip damage that it’s mandated

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And you know how much this community loves baba

scarlet adder
simple delta
oak widget
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zik you also don’t have control over tank

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the raid chooses

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so you don’t like learn tank role at zik

scarlet adder
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With olm it's a bit different than the standard mmo roles tbh zik is kinda cool with that but having to not let her melee kinda just invalidates the main point imo

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Tho ofc not rlly done much tob to tell you pwat

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Either way I wouldn't mind an activity where a person has aggro I guess is my point

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What they'd be able to do with that tho I'm not sure

oak widget
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it’s one thing if the tank role is to afk in justi, it’s another if you need to execute different techniques as the tank role

scarlet adder
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Yeah

oak widget
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The latter sounds better to me and is what zik is

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We just don’t control who is tank

scarlet adder
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That'd why I said idk what they'd do after the fact

oak widget
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You can control aggro at toa at akkha by order of entry to setup a butterfly person

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You also control aggro (slightly) at maiden with orb order

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Maiden actually has a ton going on for aggro control

scarlet adder
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Well true tho idk if it'd count as a tank role ig tho for maiden I wouldn't know anyway me and Tob don't go together

oak widget
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Like this is the maiden priority heat map, in roygbiv order

unknown.png
scarlet adder
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I do like the roles we can have tho

oak widget
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Setting up things like this on the back end and then letting players mess with it is key

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The above lets teams put players close to maiden to tank and then further players to be safer and freeze

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And the closer players can strategically trade tank by stepping into different zones

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Stuff like this is why tob is so far and away the best raid

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Actual roles and depth discovered within the mechanics of the raid

scarlet adder
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That could be partly why people would like a more dedicated attempt on for it for a piece of content ig

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Idk

simple delta
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being too fucking upfront is what u get with toa

oak widget
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it’s just tricky because toa clearly had some ideas of being a role / team raid with red keris, but it didn’t really happen

simple delta
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Nearly every cool discovery was because the high level community cracked it

oak widget
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the controlled osrs experience is nothing compared to the discovered ones

simple delta
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olm solo xdd

oak widget
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Nex is similar to this, tons of tiny little mechanics

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That add up to a lot

oak widget
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Monkey room is a poor imitation of nylo room partly imo because it was made to be soloable, you don’t need people focused certain styles to make it through cuz it’s slowed down so much

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And the random part neuters it, but yeah

scarlet adder
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Monkey room should have just been booted... It's been changed half a billion times and it's still miserable

oak widget
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I wish they tried static waves for two weeks just to see if people liked it more

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There’s depth in randomness but I think the nylo setup of “stalling” and planned waves is super fun

abstract valley
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the problem with osrs roles is that

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you would have to be extremely clever to make them intentionally and not have it just be something stupid like

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you have to freeze this npc but it only actually takes damage from demonbane spells

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so you would probably have some guy ice barrage them and they'd have to be immune to other root spells

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and it would just feel really forced

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same with tanking

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the idea of having a tank sounds cool but the actual gameplay of tanking in osrs is

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not ideal lol

oak widget
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It depends, like tanking at Zik and Olm as noted above does take some effort

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Even tanking at GWD used to with stepping under, is not nothing

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How it interacts with purples / contribution isn’t amazing cuz you usually lose dps

abstract valley
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yeah but ultimately those are players that give up the chance to mvp and so on

oak widget
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Yeah I think there’s an easy solution for that though

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Flat drop rates

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Who cares about boosting tbh

abstract valley
#

yeah they kind of have to do those if they try to make roles

#

and its not like the war on boosting is lost

#

just make a minimum contribution

oak widget
#

yeah I think they’re a good idea, or a tob system where mvp / contribution’s role is diminished

abstract valley
#

that way if someone tries to get boosted at too low of a level or just dies and does nothing

#

they still get nothing

oak widget
#

It matters but not as much, and you could go even further

abstract valley
#

ya i mean honestly

#

i dont even really think mvp should exist in a scenario where you ask players to do different things

#

im not sure it should ever exist honestly

#

i get the idea but

#

dunno if getting a little pvp into your pve is really the most positive thing

oak widget
#

The two arguments are 1) rewarding people for playing better 2) encouraging people to PvM with players worse than them cuz at least they get more drops

#

But most good people split so 2 is whatever outside of irons and 1 idk doesn’t seem to seem matter ime

abstract valley
#

yeah but the flipside of those is that players start trying to shift responsibility and essentially pad their contribution numbers

#

aiming to get more loot

oak widget
#

MVP fighting is annoying yeah

#

Flat rates in 2025 makes sense to me idk

abstract valley
#

all together its just weird because you know if everyone is not being an ass

#

the only thing that really matters is trying to win

#

against the boss

#

not each other lol

oak widget
#

that’s why we split

#

basically players took MVP / contribution and said “that’s stupid”

#

sure some people will leech, but they won’t be added to the friends list for future raids

abstract valley
#

its almost tragic that we didn't get a coin share system that made sense back when they were talking about that

oak widget
#

coin share is problematic

abstract valley
#

granted they didnt actually offer one that made sense

#

it could've been as simple as this item actually just goes on ge and nobody gets paid until it sells

#

and the price would get adjusted after x time until it does sell type of thing

#

that way you're not creating anything

#

its just handling the role of nobody getting their split scammed or w/e automatically

#

and yeah leeches shouldn't be a real problem as long as jagex simply checks for someone actually contributing

oak widget
#

automated pricing is messy, it’s not that clean in any form I think

#

If someone is A) has played enough to be rich enough to buy boosts or B) has friends willing to boost, why do we care?

#

This is yama talk though right?

#

I guess delve boss has been waiting1

abstract valley
#

honestly you might not care for mains but the logic falls apart when you have specific game modes with rules meant to make you do things yourself

oak widget
#

“You” is general?

abstract valley
#

yeah

oak widget
#

Lol ok 👍

#

Irons are complicated, whole conversation

#

Hard to deny they haven’t grown the game, I wouldn’t be playing if main was the only option, but man the game would be so different

abstract valley
#

yeah for regular accounts its a lot more obvious that people can kinda do whatever but for irons it gets a lot more obviously wrong i guess you'd say

#

because it undercuts the whole reason the mode exists

oak widget
#

ironically, flat rates would’ve easily killed the most egregious iron boosting methods of megascales

#

and the iron boosting methods of letting just the iron kill P3 wardens

abstract valley
#

yeah jagex is kind of automatically losing by trying to play the game with the whole points/mvp/whatever systems

#

they could just check that everyone has a pulse and that you won

oak widget
#

it’d be cool to try flat rate at yama and see how it goes

abstract valley
#

i do think they'd at least want to be clear about when you aren't contributing enough though

#

and just make sure they do at least 1 pass over it after it comes out to make sure the number is in a good place

simple delta
silent kindle
#

surely delve blog this week

#

its been a while now

pearl lichen
#

in terms of roles

oak widget
#

they carry tob for sure, add so much replay value

zealous bear
#

tob just offers a lot of different stuff that scratches different itches

#

like xarpus is basically a scripted encounter but its fun because you're just flowing the entire time (save for solo xd)

#

the only other place in the game that feels like xarpus to me is 12:0/8:1

#

but its noticeably different

#

but same kinda chilling brainoff kinda deal

uneven totem
#

It’s very smooth when learned yes

#

Also 4:1 melee

#

Like I truly believe they have the ability to make something like tob in the future and to have more interesting encounters

oak widget
#

curated encounters just have a limit on how fun they can be

#

like rax, the best part was a bug

uneven totem
#

Tbf I still enjoy the shift step under method for it. Also people sleep on the most simple thing at that boss, which is dragging it to different eggs (due to many ranging this)

oak widget
#

They did a good job fixing that bug, kept the best parts of it

uneven totem
#

Exactly

zealous bear
#

a lot of the stuff we enjoy is because people are creative

oak widget
#

The eggs are ok, idk it’s kinda just watch the pecanbread vid one time

#

Executing it isn’t that fun

zealous bear
#

at the end if theres only like 1 designated way to approach the boss (see kephri for example), there really isnt much depth

oak widget
#

I think the eggs are good example of something that sounds cool but over a few hundred kc it’s whatever, oh… unless you mean that it’s 3 different fights

uneven totem
#

I enjoy timing it tbh but I’m someone that double venges each kill except the mirror start

oak widget
#

Yeah the fact that the eggs make the same encounter feel different 3 ways is very cool

zealous bear
#

the 3 rax rotas were enough variety to keep it interesting for a few hundred kc

#

esp with dragging boss around and whatnot

#

ik there are some people ethat just stand in the center though

abstract valley
#

i did think rax was great in general

#

not many slayer bosses i'd be willing to put 1k kc on during the release week

oak widget
#

yeah it’s good stuff

#

Makes me optimistic for delve / yama

#

Awakened bosses are awesome too, DT2 in general is good

#

Varlamore has just been a little weak boss design wise

#

Sol carries, even Colo waves are just fine

#

With moons / huey / mox being actively bad

zealous bear
#

yea sol has some really creative mechanics

abstract valley
#

i think it might just be that players are too used to well designed newer bosses and super developed metas for older bosses where we basically break the game to make them interesting

zealous bear
#

the grapple/perfect parry feel really good to pull off

abstract valley
#

and then a not as good boss fight dev makes a boss now and we're just like

zealous bear
#

and the grapple you get a guaranteed max out of it

abstract valley
#

yeah no this is bad

zealous bear
#

which is doubly good feeling

oak widget
abstract valley
#

i can kind of understand how that happens to people

oak widget
#

Like yeah the tech is a buried in the boss design but it’s out there and makes the fight more fun

abstract valley
#

bro had probably never seen the chart for how the attacks work

oak widget
#

Same with people who say Nex is click boss click yellow

#

Like yeah you can get clears that way, but there’s more going on

abstract valley
#

both of those though are just old enough in some ways that its like

#

old runescape problems

#

everything happening is kind of invisible and jank mechanics

oak widget
#

I think that’s old RuneScape charm but whatever

abstract valley
#

so people who dont know just really dont know lol

#

where now you'd expect it to be telegraphed and visually understandable

oak widget
#

Yep

#

The toa

abstract valley
#

i mean its hard to argue that it isnt better that way but

oak widget
#

idk about that

abstract valley
#

i think that it also allows them to make things harder

oak widget
#

the more buried mechanics are generally more fun to execute

abstract valley
#

if i throw something at you that you have to react to before it hits you thats a lot more reasonable than expecting people to just know what tick something happens on

#

so i can reasonably make it happen faster

oak widget
#

and the buried mechanics are also smaller gradients for how much they add, like Nex / Cerb are marginally better for doing the fancy mechanics but you can do the tank and spank

Whereas when they make the mechanic everything… it has to one shot you to matter

oak widget
#

that opt in difficulty part is cool

digital summit
oak widget
#

that was after the 100% freeze or before?

digital summit
#

Well before ye

oak widget
#

Really wow ok

digital summit
#

Max mage double up on 4s

oak widget
#

Interesting, before my time

#

I see and then with 100% you could make it the meta now

digital summit
#

Ye 100% made stacking meta where before it was rly hit or miss

hushed wing
#

Those of u complaining about MVP just sound like a bunch of leeches. If u care that much get a clan mate or friend to join. If I'm generous enough to take some iron in a whip, they better not have the same chance of getting the purple as a person in max

#

If u make it all even then u make it so those ppl who say "scythe req" will become more common and that might become the norm

#

I take ppl in worse gear bcoz they still have a chance, but despite being a frz I will still mvp

uneven totem
#

MVP is just a meaningless system, at least when it comes to tob. But it does lead to shittier raids if doing ffa as folks just play for themselves

hushed wing
#

Then get friends

uneven totem
#

That’s of no concern to me as I do split raids. I’m just saying it’s a pointless system

hushed wing
#

U promote elitism by trying to make everyone the same

uneven totem
#

I take varied gear people. Try assuming less 🤣

slate harness
#

Wouldn't elitism want there to be a more pronounced MVP to reward efficient gameplay

hushed wing
#

Whatever u say. But if Raids 4 has this non MVP system but you need multiple people to complete the raid. Gl getting into a party if u don't have max max gear

#

Im talking about like w416 ppl who have a scythe req for some reason

slate harness
#

Who cares what they think

uneven totem
#

Most folks I see use Mvp to promote doing shitty habits and bring shitty gear for 0. It’s not a system where it provides any value

#

That’s the issue

#

Simply learning raid procedure and split teams makes this pointless as well

#

Regardless of gear

hushed wing
#

I think u have valid reasoning, but the reality will be different than what u imagine

pliant swallow
#

MVP systems in an MMO are just kinda bad, since you're actively harming the group to promote yourself

uneven totem
#

I’m not imagining it when these are common discussions I have from folks in advice channels. They post something and get angry, then flex mvp like it means anything. Most good tobbers will tell you that the mvp system is a joke

#

The raid itself shows you room times which does more, if you genuinely want to have a better raid experience

pliant swallow
#

The raid being cleared as fast as possible/cleanly as possible should be the goal to promote the best play, not people infighting or purposely pranking to secure themselves an extremely minor extra chance at loot

#

Saying that people are friendless for thinking that it's cringe to encourage solo maxing in a raid is kind of a wild take lmao

hushed wing
#

If u say so. But this will not include a lot of poor players

uneven totem
#

What

hushed wing
#

If I was doing an ffa ToB where the rewards are all even. If someone isn't bringing in a tbow and scythe it's a resign

uneven totem
#

Then that’s skill issue ngl

hushed wing
#

If they're missing infernal, quiver, bgs, elder maul, etc.

pliant swallow
#

I think everyone participating (which makes the raid go by faster) will pretty naturally make the raid more worth it for competent teams, without punishing anyone that isn't going out of their way to make themselves the standout person in a raid

uneven totem
#

Ffa raids are for inhumans for the most part anyway

slate harness
#

I think in the case of an ffa your gear and skill are directly proportional to the loot value you should receive and people can and should take people not in max if not taking them means you wait 3x longer to get a team together

pliant swallow
#

You're free to quit any team you like, but saying that it's elitist to say people should care more about the raid than their own MVP chances is again
A wild take

pliant swallow
uneven totem
#

Hope raids 4 rewards this yes. Hopefully it strays away from the point system as well

#

People do the dumbest shit for points

pliant swallow
#

Yepp

uneven totem
#

Also do more dumb shit in ffa

#

Again inhuman raiders

pliant swallow
#

Lemme just walk into Guardians constantly to get like 400 more points!

uneven totem
#

Don’t forget not getting olm pools!

pliant swallow
#

Oh fuck guys lemme take 45 more seconds to wait for everyone to push the boulder

#

Let Olm heal up some so we can damage him more

uneven totem
#

🤣🤣🤣

pliant swallow
#

Skull skipping in it's entirety

#

Guys please don't use the mechanic that damages the boss, because it's not the correct type of damage

#

Raid should just be raid
You complete it you get a chance at loot
You don't, you die

#

Complete it faster for more loot per hour

uneven totem
#

How they allowed that still is wild

#

Removing 1d core as well 🤣

oak widget
uneven totem
#

Ah yes let me stand still on p2 longer and dodge stuff

#

Insanely active

oak widget
uneven totem
#

A lot of folks are due to scythe price

pliant swallow
#

Turning one of the only parts of ToA that has some risk to it into "just stand on this tile and spam click this other one, you'll never die" is so funny that they just let be a mechanic

oak widget
#

That’s fair, new irons are so screwed with scythe price

#

Literally should go complete Nex before tobbing in 2025 to afford scythe, or make friends

#

It is relevantly hard to make friends if you can’t split tho, sympathize with that

slate harness
oak widget
pearl lichen
#

it's so boring

#

i want the raid to be over faster

#

xd

simple delta
#

That was a team-only advantage and it would've further widened the gap between solo and team so that teams might actually be worth doing

pearl lichen
slate harness
#

Literally just killing core in 1 down

digital summit
simple delta
pearl lichen
#

how did they remove that hmm

hushed wing
digital summit
#

Both in maiden and verz

hushed wing
#

I don't see that on the wiki

#

Can u link it

digital summit
#

MVP system is fine, using it as a metric to associate with skill is pretty dumb tho - which is why most people in the max eff scene don’t really care about that part of the board

digital summit
#

Maybe even 2023

oak widget
#

Yeah it was a long time ago

#

Been that way for a while

digital summit
#

Jk it was back in 2022

#

Tried linking my twitter thread with ash but link got removed

#

If you really wanted to go peek around the blogs, it was in April

#

But ye in tob, if you’re explicitly playing with the goal of getting as many mvp points as possible, you’re likely playing in a way that doesn’t help the raid get completed faster.

  • mvp points on p1 is going to be 99% rng anyways even if you have scythe and someone doesn’t bc dawn specs
hushed wing
#

I couldn't find it. Was searching in page 'Maiden' and 'tob'

#

On all the April 2022 blogs

digital summit
#

I’ll dm you the twitter convo, you can look around those dates if it’d helpful. Should be March or April I think - idk how long after the update it was that I asked about it

#

Jk I’m ded in the brain

#

I asked on March 31

vernal pelican
#

at the very least it was polled + passed in content poll 75 (question 38), im not about to go blog diving to find if it was ever mentioned to actually be implemented though

simple delta
#

and raised hp

#

It was so stupid BSighPat

slate harness
#

Something like that

abstract valley
#

I'm just glad so many other people can see why points are dumb in raids lol you guys listed so many examples of how it's counterproductive

pearl lichen
dry badger
#

Whats everyone’s thoughts on what jagex will change with avernic boots?

simple delta
simple delta
#

man's swinging an uncharged scythe from dragon scimitar LOL

#

doesnt have vials of blood xdd

fathom finch
#

Not sure if this has been discuseed before or not, but it would be really cool to see a sidegrade to Virtus that boosts Arceuus spellbook spell damage (and maybe thrall damage if spawned while wearing the whole set??) But also seconds as our first big tank mage armor set. Bark armor doesn't count

The current triangle is so broken. Mage is supposed to be good against melee, range against mage, and melee against range. Currently, melee shreds range and mage, range shreds mage, and mage doesn't have a lick of defensive stats against either range or melee.

An end game encounter should drop bis armor or weapons and what better place to boost arceuus spell book for future content, introduce a bis tank mage armor set, and give people the thrall upgrade they wanted, all in one?

#

I'd forego the Avernic Treads (please rename this for the love of god, avernic is from tob...) from this boss if they got buffed significantly and dropped from raids 4 instead.

hushed wing
#

The term Avernic refers to a race of demons. I think it's fine. Tanky stats don't really matter most of the time but mage armour that upgrades thralls is interesting. Let it scale with Master and gm ca's

silent kindle
#

Mage tank armor is so horrible i hope they never do that

#

It was so terrible pre eoc i think ganodermic will just give me nightmares forever

fathom finch
#

Itd be nice for burst slayer to not have to pray?

#

They don't really matter because of prayer, but what if you don't want to pray? Or they release the new prayers and you can't block all dmg with overheads?

empty hare
#

why would u not pray

#

bis tank mage sounds useless as heck it is not the kind of armor you add to endgame encounter, it has similar vibes as to the sunfire fanatic shit dropping from colo

fathom finch
#

Its just an idea, friend.

#

Even if its not tanky everything else is fitting

abstract valley
#

i mean mage armor that happens to have defensive stats doesn't really matter in pvm

#

you'd just be fucking up pvp for fun

hard path
#

Making pvp worse for fun? Stop i'm already voting yes

slate harness
hard path
#

As long as it's making pvp worse

simple delta
#

Did you see the old crystal armor xdd

#

Justi level tank stats and no negatives

woven siren
#

if its 7 str at least soul helm will replace torva helm in metas and we wont be mix n matching

abstract valley
#

feel like the major change is going to be making the boots usable before you add the old boots to them

silent kindle
#

here we go

pliant swallow
#

Solid so far

#

This is a sick effect
When you miss a Magic attack with the Gauntlets equipped, your next Magic attack of the same type (same weapon or spell), against the same enemy, will roll Accuracy twice. This means that if you're already hitting all of the time (looking at you, Shadow) you won't be benefiting much, but if your Accuracy is more middling you'll see some great returns.

woven siren
#

7 str on treads pls

vocal plaza
#

Those rewards are peak holy fuck

hard path
#

Yeah, this new iteration has the right amount of sauce

vocal plaza
#

Shadow damage gonna be nutty with 12% more damage coming from boots and gloves lol

#

The 3 tick staff is nice also

idle sage
#

Why such a short range on staff tho

simple delta
#

These boots will now drop in a form that can be immediately worn, with the ability to upgrade them by using the Cerberus Boots, one at a time.

#

You're welcome for spamming this shit

#

However, one more thing

#

+8 Melee STR instead of +6 please Whar3

#

+3 Ranged STR over previous BIS, but +1 Melee STR over previous BIS?

pliant swallow
#

I'm happy with 6
Leaves room to buff Rancour Wicked

simple delta
#

😭

pliant swallow
#

It is weird the boots don't drop with 5 str though

#

They drop with bis all other stats

#

But drop with -1 str compared to prims

simple delta
#

Jesus

#

that glove is nasty

pliant swallow
#

I'm extremely excited about all these items

#

They're actually good

#

And not niche as shit

pearl lichen
#

can a brother get a link

pliant swallow
#

Check announcement channel

#

It's the latest thing

silent kindle
#

still wish there was more rewards, but the quality of these is so much higher

simple delta
oak widget
#

Not loving the wand

pliant swallow
#

Whaaat

oak widget
#

I don’t want something strictly worse than shadow

pliant swallow
#

The wand is literally perfect

frail plinth
#

End game boss dropping a mid game magic wep and a spade 🤣

silent kindle
#

its magic warhammer thats bis over shadow sometimes, whats the issue with it

pliant swallow
#

It's a 3 tick wand that's got an actually good special attack

frail plinth
#

Reddit stays winning

oak widget
#

Nah, it’s just a worse shadow

#

Unless I see some calcs where it’s bis somewhere other than Nylos I’m not feeling it

frail plinth
#

It's shit for nylos because the range is terrible

oak widget
#

Wanted a magic BP where it had some niche uses

#

Oh it has bad range too?

woven siren
#

6 range

silent kindle
#

oh 6 range

#

christ

#

i did not see that

frail plinth
#

It only exists because the bowfa billies are desperate for a sang upgrade on an end game boss they won't be able to kill

oak widget
#

Nah it’s a flop, unless there’s calcs out there showing it good on low defense, not doing it for me at all

pliant swallow
#

It's definitely not a flop

oak widget
#

Strictly worse shadow is not what we want

pliant swallow
#

People have been begging for 3t mage weapon

woven siren
#

pls give treads 7 str so we can use full soul set and not mix/match with torva helm

oak widget
#

Apparently it’s bad at that role idk man

#

Not feeling it

#

Will look into some calcs later to confirm but if this has zero uses over Shaodw outside of the spec, flop

#

Gloves and treads rule

#

Gloves are awesome

pliant swallow
#

8 range on defensive, yeah?

simple delta
#

I like the special, but I want to see how accurate the spec is

pliant swallow
#

It's already 1 tile extra range than bp

simple delta
#

My problem with Accursed is that it's not very accurate outside of the wilderness

oak widget
#

Yeah, so maybe it’s not terrible, will need to think about it

frail plinth
#

Tbh I think the boots are the actual chase item from here anyway

oak widget
#

A nylo only weapon isn’t it though

frail plinth
#

They're actually crazy good now

oak widget
#

Gloves are awesome too

frail plinth
#

Yeah

oak widget
#

Gloves and boots are killing it, wand ain’t it

pliant swallow
#

Being 8 range on defensive with no attack cool down slow, that means it's 3 tile extra range over bp

frail plinth
#

The wand is kinda bait

#

The specs alright I guess

simple delta
silent kindle
#

ud bring it for the spec in toa right

frail plinth
#

Uhh depends how accurate it is

pliant swallow
#

It not killing mage level is very good

oak widget
#

Yeah, I really wanted the wand to have uses over shadow and seems they’re intentionally avoiding that

frail plinth
#

You got to hit to reduce the level and it's only 30 acc

#

VW/ZCB likely still better in toa?

silent kindle
#

probably "bis" for toa monkey room too xdd

frail plinth
#

Would have to do the calcs

pliant swallow
#

With the way mage % works it's practically impossible for a flat want to be "better" than Shadow

idle sage
#

I like how they went more mage bgs the mage dwh

pliant swallow
#

Except for situations where attack speed is super more useful

idle sage
#

Aka just nylo?

hard path
#

It's less of a flop for people without shadow

#

Which i mean, was its intention

silent kindle
#

yeah i mean its way better than the demonbane aegis lmao

hard path
#

It doesn't need to swing its dick directly against shadow to be a good upgrade

#

Plus the 3 tick attack speed, WITH those gloves for double accuracy check

#

It's not going to be a noodle

pliant swallow
#

A decent mage spec weapon with niche uses in the best raid is something I can get behind

#

It's not a flop, it's just not competing with "the mage weapon that everyone says is op as shit"

#

Which is a wild expectation to have

idle sage
#

With a shadow boss is basically just slight dps upgrade in boots and gauntlets.

Dunno if mage spec will have uses yet tho

pearl lichen
#

i love the weap

pliant swallow
#

Isn't it 12% mage damage boost for Shadow?

hard path
#

@fresh tendonJust a question about the spade, will it be a more reasonable drop rate like the thread of elidinis to encourage people to attempt the content, or is it going to be grouped like everything else as a 'chase' item

pearl lichen
pliant swallow
#

I don't know if I'd say minor

pearl lichen
#

probably overtakes tbow zebak by a good bit

silent kindle
#

benefits off the gloves too

pliant swallow
#

They did cater the boots to be the exact scy max hit of 51 at scb stats

#

They just couldn't give us the 52

idle sage
#

Yea id be curious to see calcs...cause tbow is getting buff too with boots

silent kindle
#

boots are still insane

#

i dont think they need that

simple delta
uneven totem
simple delta
#

I say this all the time but scythe max hits are substantially less powerful than shadow/tbow

#

melee in general is limited af

silent kindle
#

no longer have to 9 way switch inside chambers thank god

#

these could not come faster

uneven totem
#

It’s interesting for sure as tbow dps can go up on certain bosses

idle sage
#

Also i can see new staff being a bit annoying at zebak with shorter range during wave specials

pearl lichen
#

you would still shadow zeb, but that spec is rlly strong

uneven totem
#

You wouldn’t use it there besides the spec

pearl lichen
uneven totem
#

Tbow

#

So I’d wonder how it’d be on wardens. Shadow will still probably outdps tho

idle sage
#

Pre shadow honestly seems like it would be annoying at toa. Anyone got a 3t butterfly method? :p

pliant swallow
#

Well it doesn't help tbow, it prevents it from hurting tbow, right?

uneven totem
#

It says it in the blog

pliant swallow
#

Mage def going lower won't affect tbow accuracy rolls, is what I'm saying

#

It's a buff to magic damage but also doesn't hurt tbow unlike accursed

uneven totem
#

Ah yeah

pliant swallow
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It will have some places where it's still a bit useless because of how early bosses just had mage bonus slapped on to offset tbow being good, like Graardor or Thermy

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Thermy has 800 mage def lmao

idle sage
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Bandos comes to mind

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Pretty sure when cox ame out tbow was insane there

uneven totem
simple delta
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wait

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hold up

simple delta
uneven totem
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I’m like reading this half sleepily

simple delta
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This shit was also my idea

fresh tendon
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Hey all! We do have a new thread for this #1349020383562694688 which will make it way easier for me to keep on top of feedback if you could move to that one

oak widget
# pliant swallow With the way mage % works it's practically impossible for a flat want to be "bet...

There are ways, things like heka with variable attack speeds could be better dps if you get all the hits on low defense targets but not if you don’t

Or give it a ramp up dmg boost for a similar effect

Or give it very low magic accuracy and make it a BP

Or give it a unique dmg roll like Macs where it hits twice but the second hit doesn’t roll if the first misses making it hyper focused on low defense