How much gp/hr do the orbs add to the bosses now?
#Quest, Delve Boss & Slayer Dungeon Rewards - Varlamore: The Final Dawn
oak widget
Hmm looks like 350-400k, that’s not nothing and it’s nice to be able to find gp/hr that doesn’t negatively affect other parts of the economy
empty hare
it was far from marginal at release tho
orbs were like a significant amount of the profit i got as someone who went 4x dry
simple delta
it was far from marginal at release tho
Wasn't marginal at all, especially when Awakeneds were released and they were 3-4x the current price 
People complain about the rates all the time - Imagine if Ultor Vestige was 1/200 Awakened Vard.
Buffing the Awakened Rates would fix that if you are skilled enough to do it, like how CG vs normal gauntlet is.
empty hare
i think the reason they do not want to do that is fear of endgame players farming awakened having an impact on prices and viability of farming the normal tier. That said if the drop rates were just adjusted to be around be proportional to kill time I don't see how it would be a problem
slate harness
I mean going to the point above they shouldn't limit CG by reg gauntlet
Shouldn't be proportional if it's harder
empty hare
i think theres a very big difference in which contents are farmable by the average player
purposefully making the content one off probably made them feel free to make it harder
slate harness
I think a large part of that is difficulty of learning it due to orb input costs
simple delta
I mean going to the point above they shouldn't limit CG by reg gauntlet
You're not wrong 
If they make Awakeneds worth it to spam over norms, maybe orbs should just be X amount to access
slate harness
Hold on let me check what 1/4 of my ironman orb stock is rq
empty hare
i think they should have just done this for pet
slate harness
For no reason whasoever before I suggest an orb number xd
empty hare
the only issue is that would drive orb prices up, but with the current price, that might beok
i just dont really see people who need money farming ultor ring from awakened vard
simple delta
i just dont really see people who need money farming ultor ring from awakened va...
Or they could just be massive pet rate increases
that way they dont impact uniques
empty hare
yeah thats what i suggestd above
simple delta
empty hare
could maybe throw in axe piece too
abstract valley
this is sort of how people eventually learn that multiple difficulty levels are actually a bad idea
it just takes a long time for that "meta" to develop lol
its actually a design constraint when you want to make content that appeals to everyone with varying difficulty levels
simple delta
its actually a design constraint when you want to make content that appeals to e...
toa 
abstract valley
what happens over like a long period of time is that
your players start sorting themselves out as like "im only a normal mode player" and "i only do the actual end game" and they stop having like
common ground
because everyone isn't playing the same game anymore
and they start fighting about what the correct content should be and so on
empty hare
CMs is probably the best implementation of "hard" mode, somehow
HMT is also reasonable if the mechanics of HMT didnt turn everyone off
vocal plaza
I mean i feel like orbs are just there to gate keep people from learning. much like how no1 did CA's due to no rewards and how dumb it was to get every task in order to unlock a tier. its just not worth the cost to go for. however it is a shame as i love to do stuff on repeat an die an learn to eventually get it. but having an artibtray number of attempts/gate keeping just keeps me from even attemping it. esp on an iron were you can spend 4 hours to get a single orb
abstract valley
its not just the players either
devs start looking at that and their solution is like
99.99% of the time to add even more difficulty levels
simple delta
I mean i feel like orbs are just there to gate keep people from learning. much l...
Hence, shift it to a rewards increase sacrifice
abstract valley
like toa on osrs speed ran the entire thing
simple delta
There's like 50 ideas available on what they can do
vocal plaza
I would have inferno cape or a quiver if i was limited by how much time i can spend to learn it. either that or i would have made a max main to practice.
simple delta
like toa on osrs speed ran the entire thing
ngl, i think the most fun that I had in toa was doing 1-down speeds
vocal plaza
if they want to gate keep like that then the attempts need to be untradeable, so everyone can suffer.
abstract valley
ya thats because when a game keeps pushing you to be better
you might be good enough to keep following along
abstract valley
but i bet almost everyone that is stops having fun eventually
abstract valley
ya but you can get the same effect no matter how you do it
abstract valley
you can also just layer complexity until its extremely hard then once players adjust to that
take it to the next level again
and eventually its insanely complicated and people are just stressed
instead of having fun
thats what happened with wow
empty hare
i feel like high skill getting faster clears is good enough for most things
i dont like the why toa does things because it basically becomes "if you're new or undergeared or just not doing 440s+ you're getting nerfed drop rates relative to how the prices are adjusted to"
abstract valley
wow dungeons specifically are the best example
empty hare
and on top of that, you don thave a shadow, so your raids are slower too
abstract valley
just about everyone that is/was good at doing cms/m+ really had/has the most fun when they can just go really fast and do insane stuff
slate harness
When I got a shadow in solo 475 it took 5 minutes off my raids
abstract valley
and blizzards response is to slow things down but make things "harder" with more complexity and hp and so on
and it never hits the same high as when it was easier and you adjusted the difficulty by just pulling bigger
and going faster
simple delta
<:Pepega:1156994385901269043>
and how the drop rate barely increases in proportion to clear time
empty hare
i mean i personally like that they were conservative with the drop rates
abstract valley
its like super parallel to how in osrs running a toa 300 or even 150 as fast as possible is way more fun than doing a 500+
empty hare
instead of toa which is basically exponential in the formula
yeuah, and if toa 500s were only marginally more drop rate, you could make a case for speed 300s actually being good money
toa "money speeds" basically arent a thing afaict
compared to tob where people will show off their "money times"
oak widget
Man if 300 speeds were better time to purple, toa would be a much better raid
abstract valley
when you see someone do the same thing you do just impressively faster and crazier its somehow more relatable and something you'd want to try to do
than seeing someone do your content on another difficulty mode that isn't like
the same thing
oak widget
Yeah ToA’s system is hopefully unique
simple delta
when you see someone do the same thing you do just impressively faster and crazi...
it would be impressive if it was dealing with actual mechanics
but hp bloat is not fun
to watch
abstract valley
ya thats what i mean though watching people figure out how to get better and go faster/do more is cool
watching someone do something you've never even experienced is like
way less cool
hard path
Yeah ToA’s system is hopefully unique
Too bad it seems like the mod opinion is that toa's system was an abject failure outside of getting new people into raising. They don't want to recreate, it or Colo again
empty hare
i havent ran a lot of hmt but the only mechanic change that i found somewhat interesting is the nylo movement one
abstract valley
we see port or xzact do the inferno and its like
wtf this is cool
because we did the inferno too
they're just insane
empty hare
Too bad it seems like the mod opinion is that toa's system was an abject failure...
how is this too bad? seems like a good thing
distant hamlet
@fresh tendon should we expect the updated delve rewards blog this wednesday?
pliant swallow
ToA and Colo invocations were not really what we were hoping for with their release, I'd be entirely fine if they scrapped that route entirely for future content
empty hare
i think colo could be brought into a decen tstate if they just did something with the dogshit invos that nobody ever wants to take
slate harness
Yeah to be fair this convo has completely derailed from this channel purpose. Not that there's new stuff to discuss yet
abstract valley
i think it did its job with toa but toa just wasn't ever going to be tob or cox because of it
empty hare
its really not that from from being balanced but jagex does only 1 rebalance pass and then gives up
abstract valley
its more like raid for noobs and you can scale it up
pliant swallow
The "scaling" of raid difficulty should be improving your own abilities at set content that you're trying to get faster at doing deathless
abstract valley
so it succeeded in getting new people into raiding
but it wasn't a raid for raiders
pliant swallow
Not "Oooh also learn this mechanic sometimes because it's sometimes used in some people's groups"
abstract valley
colo though i think those invos just dont work and it would be better content without them
and just giving people a set of debuffs basically at xyz wave
pliant swallow
It's also not great for solos, where the invocations sometimes just literally do nothing
abstract valley
its pretty much an order of operations type of content where your goal is to actually just not get the bad options
pliant swallow
Choosing your own debuffs is so far outside the scope of what Colo was proposed for, too
abstract valley
not level up and learn to do them
slate harness
colo though i think those invos just dont work and it would be better content wi...
WYM they're integral to the "endless roguelike content" that Colo definitely was promised to be and definitely is
empty hare
i think if you just tweak bees, dynamic duo, red flag, and totemic, its not that bad
pliant swallow
It was supposed to be a tradeoff style system and they just didn't add any of the boosts they were talking about lmao
abstract valley
they actually committed a wow mistake and it sort of hurts lol
hard path
Just add 1 new mob per wave and let you keep sending, gg infinite scaling
pliant swallow
And then when there's finally a colo invocation that is genuinely sometimes really good to take (Totemic), they immediately removed it lmao
And made it just as dead as it had been
abstract valley
basically in m+ you get a bunch of random weekly debuffs to make it harder and people eventually got sick of waiting for the right week and how they just kept adding new stuff
that made the content less fun
and started to beg for positive buffs to make it varied
empty hare
i just dont think it would be that hard to find a way to make some of those invos takable
abstract valley
and lmao the exact same thing happened to osrs
slate harness
And then when there's finally a colo invocation that is genuinely sometimes real...
What was it good for?
empty hare
especially if you just add tradeoffs
maybe make red flag delay reinforcements in exchange for the downside
pliant swallow
They removed attack delay on Totems for Leagues, and it affected main game
pliant swallow
So you could do venator/venator/venator/tbow on some mobs
And just fucking NUKE things
empty hare
apparently nobody ever actually got a rec with that, but it was cool that there was an actual upside to an otherwise dogshit invocation
pliant swallow
Yeah it was only around for a bit
Definitely could have been tech for new records with it
But Jagex went "nooo can't have unintended but really fun skilled gameplay!!"
abstract valley
ultimately i think with content like this jagex just needs to be realistic with how often they think
they're going to revisit and adjust mechanics
empty hare
dynamic duo, maybe you could just change it so that the spawn mechanic of the 2nd colossus isnt fucked
or make the 2nd colossus part of reinforcements
abstract valley
and step away from ideas that are going to require more adjustment than they're going to give them
pliant swallow
I swear, if CoX released today they'd fucking patch out Olm running and Mystics safespotting and Tightrope Skipping and Vespula portal redemptioning
empty hare
(its also funny that almost every invo in colo that doesnat have a tiering 1/2/3 is dogshit)
abstract valley
like remember when we were going to get more toa invocations and adjustments over time
oak widget
Too bad it seems like the mod opinion is that toa's system was an abject failure...
I think entry / normal / expert is fine, but the point should be that expert is the expected
abstract valley
and then they checked them out like once and then carried on as if toa doesnt exist
for years
oak widget
Invocations are not a total failure but they’re not a good part of toa
hard path
If jagex actually worked on it post release both toa and Colo could be a lot better.
As said earlier, the issue kind of is they may go back once multiple years later and only fix a few things.
Toa was promised a ton of new invos that just never happened
oak widget
There’s ways to fix it though
empty hare
they really drop the ball on updating old content
pliant swallow
Yeah
They're just kind of annoyances that a fair few of should always be enabled or required to be enabled to hit certain tiers of difficulty of the raid
oak widget
Very few of the invos actually change the raid
slate harness
But yet they always use the logic of "eh we can fix it later this is good enough to start with"
empty hare
the cox changes are proof of how huseful going back and fixing things can be
oak widget
And most when they do make it worse
abstract valley
i think they just need to keep it real with themselves lol
they know they're not coming back dont build something that requires it
slate harness
The problem isn't that they've never fixed anything it's how long it takes
oak widget
Yeah it’s years not even months
Shadow is going to be a problem for like 5 more years
empty hare
i would handily accept getting less midgame boss drip in exchange for going back and fixing shit
oak widget
Here’s hoping they’ve tapped the midgame well
slate harness
It's ok sire rework this summer!!!! :p
abstract valley
ya its not that they never do anything but you know if you make a complex system where
you kinda know you have to adjust it several times after seeing players play
and they know they're not going to do that
empty hare
even like
abstract valley
probably time to get a new idea
hard path
It's ass
slate harness
Yep
oak widget
you kinda know you have to adjust it several times after seeing players play
They slate like one update, and it’s rarely substantial just tuning
abstract valley
yeah
slate harness
"Rewards team play" by just penalizing solo, unintuitive wave slam with timing not reflected anywhere else in the game, slog of a tail phase
So much wrong with it
abstract valley
like for example if they told me to work out a reward system for a raid
empty hare
they legitimatley forgot to ask the play testers if they had fun
abstract valley
man idk what i would do because lol
slate harness
like for example if they told me to work out a reward system for a raid
Stop making the most common uniques 2/3 of the unique drop table
abstract valley
i would basically know i have one chance to fix it after its live and i know that im not gonna know exactly how players will do fights or how to properly reward someone doing mechanics like
freezing on maiden
empty hare
when u compare to like, the factorio expansion blogs, they are like "Yeah we had the expansion pretty much done. Then we started playtesting it, and we realized it was boring as hell"
abstract valley
so its hard to make like a whole mvp system or decide how many points someone gets for hitting boss vs adds and like
oak widget
The scaling screws it
abstract valley
how do i quantify someone doing something important
that doesn't do damage
and shit like that
slate harness
It would've been beyond trivial to require tribrid in a way that encouraged one person per role in Huey
abstract valley
i wouldn't even do an mvp system probably at that point because i would know i wont get it right
or have enough chances to fix it
slate harness
Something like it's strong defensively against the last style it was hit with
oak widget
Huey is so mailed in for how cool he looks
Also he’s a sky dragon, in a mountain? And drop tome of earth?
hard path
how do i quantify someone doing something important
Titans unironically punishing you for doing the magic mechanics. Thrall and ignore them is better in most cases
slate harness
Also he’s a sky dragon, in a mountain? And drop tome of earth?
Tiny hill*
abstract valley
Titans unironically punishing you for doing the magic mechanics. Thrall and igno...
ya exactly
thats why its kind of stupid lol
oak widget
I thought we’d be like fighting him in the clouds on the backs of our quetzals when they first teased the idea
empty hare
thats consistent with most stuff with ads though
slate harness
I think Titans magic stuff is fine because the people the content is designed for are going to engage with the magic mechanic
oak widget
Titans unironically punishing you for doing the magic mechanics. Thrall and igno...
That’s because of the tele
empty hare
yeah i think titans is fine
oak widget
If you couldn’t tele to the boss directly, the damage would matter
hard path
Getting 0 contribution for it is still pretty dumb
oak widget
They scuff contribution stuff every time
abstract valley
i mean personally thats why i think
empty hare
its also really funny when they are like "this boss is to teach noobs how to do gear swaps" and then theres people who are complaining about the number of swaps needed on the boss
slate harness
I mean the assumption is both of you do it a roughly even amount
abstract valley
it should just be minimum contribution to get credit and you lose some potential if you die
and thats it
oak widget
Red keris 
it took how long for crabs to count at maiden?
simple delta
how do i quantify someone doing something important
tob did it right by keeping it mostly equal regardless of mvp
empty hare
which is why i think jagex is making a fundamental mistake of thinking that the game holds people back from leveling up
hard path
its also really funny when they are like "this boss is to teach noobs how to do ...
"This is to teach gear swaps"
people actively work out the best way to switch less and ignore mage switches entirely
empty hare
in every game i have seen that a good portion of players just do not want to get better and are un-saveable
slate harness
its also really funny when they are like "this boss is to teach noobs how to do ...
Then you end up with the experienced players in 8 ways and the noobs camping blue moon
empty hare
Then you end up with the experienced players in 8 ways and the noobs camping blu...
even worse they were advocating using void
oak widget
it should just be minimum contribution to get credit and you lose some potential...
Agreed, who cares if people get boosted
abstract valley
ya its just important that jagex doesn't make mistakes like that because then you run into people doing fights "wrong" or trying to make someone else have the role of handling mechanics and shit
that dont give points
they see each other as competition lmao
oak widget
it should just be minimum contribution to get credit and you lose some potential...
The counter argument is that the current way encourages maxed out players to PvM with billybobs just fine but the other way, you really only ever want kph so should only PvM with people on your level
empty hare
they should have made minions heal the boss if they wanted people to kill them
oak widget
That’s the argument for an mvp system
hard path
I'd never do the mage mechanics in a Duo, getting less than 50% damage actively penalizes you
slate harness
The counter argument is that the current way encourages maxed out players to PvM...
You mean like how they polled it? Crazy
abstract valley
ya i think it just results in a bunch of weird stuff happening when really
abstract valley
they should just have people focused on winning and getting cool loot
empty hare
i actually prefer the tob system where mvp is onloy mildly impactful
vs the normal system
oak widget
Titans reward you for being incredibly selfish
Most content is like that
empty hare
yea some people are gonna be boosted but its like... bruh its royal titans
does anyone care if some iron boosts deadeye
abstract valley
yeah i think the boosting is fine and besides if its really a problem
oak widget
Contribution systems definitely worse than ToB’s system though yeah
abstract valley
its very easy in your one update pass to check to see if maybe the minimum contribution is too low
and bump it up a little
empty hare
or try to have some sort of detection of "this guy was doing literally nothing"
simple delta
yea some people are gonna be boosted but its like... bruh its royal titans
I would prefer a flat split tbh
oak widget
Small mvp boost is best
hard path
does anyone care if some iron boosts deadeye
They sure ignored cox for enough years. Who cares?
empty hare
ye they needed to wait for some jmods to get their tbows boosted first
oak widget
Megas became such a boogie man
abstract valley
i mean its pretty easy to fight boosting with min contribution limits
at least in the sense of "this guy is afk doing nothing"
oak widget
They weren’t even that common but always seemed really easy to kill so idk why it took so long
abstract valley
if someone gets lucky and participates but sucks i mean that part is whatever
slate harness
I appreciate that Jmods play the game but it's whack when Jmods are like "hey I noticed this on my iron and I want it to be easier" and suddenly there's an update nobody needed or asked for
slate harness
I appreciate that Jmods play the game but it's whack when Jmods are like "hey I ...
Like Prif shards
empty hare
to be honest, if it werent for board scaling, you could just split the cox drop rates uniformly across everyone and the megas issue would be "fixed"
cuz u would have a good chance of the drop going to the scaling alts
oak widget
true
empty hare
but that opens up 1+1 boosting where the iron does nothing
oak widget
Yeah but min contribution, people would game it but I honestly don’t care about boosting corner cases
empty hare
that would also be way less lucrative due to low purple rates and not many people would want to boost
abstract valley
ya thats why you just check each boss fight for "did these players genuinely do anything" and if no they just get no loot chance
hard path
Like Prif shards
I liked getting 1 shard per agility lap tbh
oak widget
ToB best system, can kinda leave it there
empty hare
yeah tob seems fine
like you can theoretically boost someone by them paying for free clears
but i havent ever heard of people actually doing that en-masse
abstract valley
i think tob is slightly flawed in that you can kind of get away with not doing much/not entering the room in some cases
but thats not too hard to fix
overall i do think its the best
oak widget
that’s bug abuse stuff though
hard path
but i havent ever heard of people actually doing that en-masse
Just rendi iirc
hard path
He's the only real tob leech I'm aware of
slate harness
Avernic good
slate harness
Truly
oak widget
Fuck it bandos str could be on justi
slate harness
Imagine if they didn't replace rapier with fang and just buffed rapier instead
abstract valley
i mean we're about to put bandos on the casualty report anyways so why not
im really disappointed in them with how they treated rapier/blade/mace
abstract valley
ya they just left that shit to die lol and actually just killed the blade for real
empty hare
yaknow if sang was just a little more accurate i think it would be viable for colo
oak widget
im really disappointed in them with how they treated rapier/blade/mace
Absurd we didn’t touch them at all
empty hare
it calcs like ~15% less than bowfa on most mobs from what im seeing
slate harness
Really? That shocks me
slate harness
Assuming sat heart right
empty hare
yeah, but the idea is thats fine, because you wont need to brew, youre using sang
oak widget
Or 3 maxes
empty hare
it is genuinely shit on shockwave tho
slate harness
yeah, but the idea is thats fine, because you wont need to brew, youre using san...
Yeah if I had one :'(
oak widget
it is genuinely shit on shockwave tho
Could probably just melee it tbh
empty hare
it beats bowfa on jaguar
empty hare
Could probably just melee it tbh
yeah, or just take the L, because killing shcokwaves is like, 1% of colo
abstract valley
i mean you can already simulate that gameplay
oak widget
and they have zero hp
abstract valley
shadow/blood barrage colo is pretty easy
empty hare
like sang is 70% acc on manticore, bowfa is 80% acc, same max hit
empty hare
shadow/blood barrage colo is pretty easy
yes, but then ur simulating with a mega rare
hard path
Absurd we didn’t touch them at all
That was some of the number 1 feedback too, the gap between them and tent whip is way too tiny
empty hare
my point is sang could be a decent weapon if magic accuracy was not fucked across the board sans shadow
oak widget
I was thinking about splitting sang into two hits, + a max buff, this would make the healing more consistent and be great for nylos but probably too much for an old item
abstract valley
i honestly think the shadow quiver thing is super easy for new people but people fixate on how robes are low def/shadow is a little slow compared to scythe or tbow
oak widget
Maybe an offhand does that for all 1h weapons idk
empty hare
i think sang should just get a damage buff when you are full hp
abstract valley
when really for a new person they dont even have to do real solves they just have to know how to run to another pillar and 1v1 to victory
empty hare
synergizes perfectly with its healing effect
oak widget
ehhh
slate harness
I like that a lot
empty hare
how is that negative
slate harness
Not if you don't nerf its current damage
oak widget
Instead of now you want to overload first
empty hare
sang heals help you get back to getting your buff
i mean, it would be a strict plus to the current one
oak widget
Yeah but it’s better to brew on 15s and get the maxes first
Yeah anything is better than current not the point
slate harness
Sure and that's a fine balance to hit with your supplies
slate harness
Yeah anything is better than current not the point
This is the literal entire point?
empty hare
i think it sfine if it encourages using food to keep full hp
if you are trying to minmax dps
oak widget
But then you aren’t using the sang’s healing?
empty hare
the main thing is this would make the weapon usable in places where this isn't chip
oak widget
Idk seems contradictory
slate harness
I think it would be a healthy balance:
-Do less dps to heal, like blood fury
-Heal sooner, consuming your supplies but letting you do more damage
oak widget
Sang could just use like 3 maxes
empty hare
i dont think 3 maxes changes anything
at all
magic is still shit everywhere unless u have a shadow
oak widget
Check that calc with 3 maxes
abstract valley
i think if you actually wanted to do the lowest maintenance buff ever to magic to "fix" stuff
you'd just dump incredible amounts of magic accuracy on everything
empty hare
heres a surprising one, warden p4
oh toa raid is at 0
man why doesnt it default to 300 or smth
slate harness
xd
oak widget
I’m fine with shadow being unique as a tank buster
It’s too much better than sang on low to moderate defense
abstract valley
the problem is kind of that everything is a tank where magic is concerned
empty hare
me too, but i also would like sang to be usable on contestable content instead of only when youre forced to use magic
slate harness
The issue isn't that shadow is acccurate it's that it's the only accurate magic when they balance mage def on it
empty hare
exactlky, unless something forces you to use magic, it invariably has high magic defense
or in some cases, both
looking at you akkah
hard path
Magic defense calc really does make everything a tank
abstract valley
thats why some big stupid accuracy buff across the board would "fix" it
at least for pvm
oak widget
Changing the calc would be really hard
empty hare
what about just changing the calc across the board
to not use magic level for NPCs
and use defense + magic def
oak widget
you’d be able to freeze shit easier
empty hare
add freeze resist as a stat
oak widget
But gwd is Fortnite’d anyway
abstract valley
you'd have to change every item in the game to adjust to whatever your calc got swapped to
empty hare
but every item in the gaqme needs that adjustment besides shadow
abstract valley
might as well just be like +xyz magic accuracy to every weapon in the game at that point
slate harness
You mean like... a Project for Rebalancing?
abstract valley
to get to the point faster lol
oak widget
I also don’t really mind if magic isn’t great when you aren’t forced to mage
hard path
You mean like... a Project for Rebalancing?
Something more than slapping 50% elemental weakness on stuff people outside of midgame don't care about?
slate harness
I liked it, did 438 kc with swamp trident
hard path
Even 150% weakness won't fix it
empty hare
whisperer is annoying because of having to do 3 rather boring special attacks every time imo
slate harness
Definitely foolish to not shadow it
oak widget
I honestly didn’t mind it but have shadow
empty hare
i think its interesting people pretty much across the board think blood fury is strong but think sang is weak
but its because you cannot use sang in all those places where you actually want healing
which is mostly because those plafces dont force u to use magic
and if ur not forced, u cant
empty hare
toa is especially mean in pissing on sang
hard path
It doesn't heal on wardens at all
abstract valley
i mean i think sang is pretty good the problem is
sang cant hit half the shit i would want it to hit
abstract valley
also as for sang vs shadow and blood fury vs rancour i mean
no contest the sang is a massive loss in comparison
empty hare
yeah, but theres a very large audience of people who both like blood fury and who do not own a scythe OR a shadow
oak widget
throwing accuracy on stuff feels wrong idk
abstract valley
i mean its not the right fix but ultimately that is whats broken
oak widget
noobs love blood fury it’s wild
abstract valley
its kinda the dumb fix
empty hare
noobs love blood fury it’s wild
my favorite is that people who love blood fury are often penny pinchers
it makes no sense
oak widget
everytime I mention nerfing it, there’s pushback from surprising people
empty hare
theyll bring a menaphite remedy to save money on combat potions
while using a fucking blood fury
hard path
I'd be happy with it getting nerfed if they made it less cancer to get
empty hare
sang could definitely occupy a nice niche of being a blood fury like thing that isn't going to break the bank
although its probably not much cheaper compared to non-scy bf
actually its 1/3 even then
and obviously like... 1/8th the price of scythe bf or smth
hard path
The issue really is accuracy though tbh
oak widget
I'd be happy with it getting nerfed if they made it less cancer to get
Nah make it more cancer AND nerf it
Kill it
empty hare
i think nerfing bf would have been more viable before releasing colo
hard path
It's a niche vard or nightmare tech at this point anyways
empty hare
there is gonna be a massive uproar from anyone without quiver lol
slate harness
I feel like first quiver with melee is probably a lot harder than ranged or mage though?
empty hare
you just swap to melee to heal
slate harness
Idk I've only done ranged I tried SRA colo once and hated it
oak widget
just blood barrage for 1 quiver idk
slate harness
Oh I see
empty hare
you have to have a swap anyway
slate harness
I just bring blood barrage
empty hare
is that even viable without a shadow
having to bring a full range, mage, and melee swap sounds awful
oak widget
Full mage?
empty hare
so that healing with blood barrage isnt awful
oak widget
Eh staff + occult probably fine, you’re just trying for one clear
empty hare
just sounds very painful/slow
compared to bf healing which is higher dps than your ranged gear
but cheaper i suppose
idk how accurate it is as i only brought DC
slate harness
having to bring a full range, mage, and melee swap sounds awful
I mean it's not like I'm speedrunning I didn't bring a full switch
oak widget
Oh yeah you can barrage frems too
slate harness
Yeah I barraged frems
empty hare
🤢
pastel ruin
wait does quiver let you hold arrows like that when unequipped?
oak widget
it’s just only a matter of time until the complainers get their wish and blood shards are common
slate harness
wait does quiver let you hold arrows like that when unequipped?
They're in the quiver but yes
empty hare
i think jagex does not like blood fury
slate harness
Like I can't shoot them without equipping
empty hare
so its unliekly they listen to the whiners
pastel ruin
bolt pouch btfo
slate harness
Honestly even if they made blood shards 3x more common I'm still not farming and using them on my iron
oak widget
blood jelly literally got a full pitch
empty hare
wait does quiver let you hold arrows like that when unequipped?
i put my arrows in like this the mmoment i got a quiver and then i immediately saw how awful it was, left, and put the arrows back in the arrow slot
aint worth the 1 prayer lol
empty hare
not for me :kekw
oak widget
Is quiver still bugged and if you pick up drop arrows it overwrites your equipped stack?
empty hare
quiver slots are more for zcb bolts imo
hard path
blood jelly literally got a full pitch
It got shit on pretty hard
And would have been super expensive
oak widget
But someone at Jagex didn’t hate blood fury
empty hare
the price of bf isnt really a problem unless ur using it in a stupid place anyway
oak widget
It’s less the price and more the irons
abstract valley
well i mean the cost kind of is stupid if you just wanna use it like lol
pastel ruin
they should add blood fury to tob
slate harness
Idk I'm never shooting without quiver on anyway so idm having ammo inside it
pastel ruin
the gem
oak widget
The noob irons complain about bf so much
empty hare
adding blood shards to tob is going to mega kill the price
pastel ruin
good
abstract valley
the cost of what they're really asking you to do for blood fury is a disaster
slate harness
The noob irons complain about bf so much
Literal skill issue moment
empty hare
which is not good
abstract valley
they basically say "role play as a bot all day and hate yourself"
empty hare
fuck bf
oak widget
Zeus is a perfect example
hard path
The noob irons complain about bf so much
Simple, don't balance the game around noobs
hard path
pastel ruin
which is not good
if the price is dropped it gives them space to nerf it
empty hare
^
slate harness
Also true
abstract valley
i would put blood shards on the nightmare
slate harness
I would put blood shards on Morytania Hespori as a repeatable fight :p
abstract valley
that way you actually have a reason to kill it other than gambling because you hate yourself
empty hare
blood shards on nightmare may be the only thing they could do to make it more bot content than it already is
hard path
Remove all blood shard drops and let NM exclusively drop them
Gg irons will never touch them
oak widget
It was over buffed to 6x the original blog
pastel ruin
people in this game are obsessed with the price of things being linked to their utility
abstract valley
nah if irons could get a reasonable rate on blood shards
oak widget
Clearly a mistake, over tuned, just fix it
abstract valley
that place would actually be packed
but instead we're thieving stupid vyres and not having any fun
pastel ruin
if they just nerf it people will be like "i lost 3 stock markets" with 50 cannonc in falador
empty hare
im curious waht combat level zeus is
oak widget
Need to get ahead of it and nerf it
abstract valley
i mean it does make sense
blood fury is pretty explicitly for either insane setups or people who are playing poorly
its mostly a crutch
empty hare
people who want to waste all their money
while btw, also using amethyst darts in their blowpipe
abstract valley
i would rather make 40k amethyst darts than get 1 blood fury
slate harness
<- I have 2.5 blood shards and I never want to ever use them because it doesn't feel remotely worth my time
empty hare
its crazy the amount of penny pinching bf using noob mains will do though
using bf, but bringing in 6 doses of scb instead of 8 to tob
slate harness
That's... harder than just bringing 8
abstract valley
i mean i dont even understand most people at tob
empty hare
my favorite is deifnitely the menaphite remedy to extend divines
to save on scb doses
abstract valley
i genuinely dont think a lot of people realize when they dont have a scythe
empty hare
but using blood fury
abstract valley
their void is actually better than their bandos etc
and they could just go farm all day in cheap gear with tons of supplies
oak widget
void is pretty good at tob
people hate it blindly a lot
until scythe, it’s like totally fine
abstract valley
ya like you run a really good chance of it being virtually identical dps pre scythe
but they get more brews to be dumb with
oak widget
upgrade when you only bring 3b2r into zik but until then, man void is fine
abstract valley
once you get a scythe its different though
oak widget
honestly, time to scythe and average raids would probably be faster in void if you packed the yak and ate to full every bloat down lol
empty hare
the goal of bloat is to die but have it not be your fault though
oak widget
fair
oak widget
would be pretty funny to have a room in a raid where it literally “didn’t count” for purple chance
just try to go as fast as possible and play risky, deaths don’t matter
abstract valley
yeah just put like bloat and olm teleports and stuff in there and tell people it doesn't count for purple chance
the assassination attempts would be insane
silent kindle
It crashed the price of orbs for no reason
So not rlly
Should have given you free awakened attempts after the first clear though
dire lodge
Genuine question - who actually cares?
simple delta
It matters when their logic for orbs was to be a non-gp method of rewarding and now it's like 400k and doesnt' really server that purpose, while being a pain for irons 
dire lodge
the orbs are kinda just a bad mechanic in general tbh
simple delta
It's what we got and we're rolling with the punches
dire lodge
Sure but it also means I don't really care if they get devalued
Bad things shouldn't remain bad just so that arbitrary value can be retained
simple delta
you don't care this, you don't care that, but that was jagex's logic for designing it 
we were pointing out how to change it so that it's not as invasive for people actually doing it, while retaining value
abstract valley
I just think looking at how something is priced on release is kinda silly
Everything looks successful like that but if it's just gonna crash and be a forever system that only works for a couple months that's kinda dumb
simple delta
I just think looking at how something is priced on release is kinda silly
Yeah, I can tell you that people loved the 1-4m drops for the first month, but then once they had to grind the blorva themselves, it was annoying
that's why I keep pushing for the orbs to be a gamble on drop rate increase
rather than access fodder
hell, make them worth it to grind awakeneds without the orbs
and the orbs can be an even bigger increase
sharp escarp
what stuff is in the slayer dungeon besides the new creature? Is there any reason to go there other than the antler guard?
oak widget
I don’t believe we have any idea what else is in there
abstract valley
i do think the whole orb thing could be different like
i dont really think jagex should gate people from attempting fun/hard/challenging content
but that doesn't mean that something like those orbs couldn't be fun for something else
i see where they were trying to come from with it but at the end of the day it just sorta sucks to be like
"i want to try to get blorva but i have no orbs so i guess i have to go do some easy stuff and wait until that gives me enough orbs or money so that i can go do the actual fun boss fights"
empty hare
Yeah, I can tell you that people loved the 1-4m drops for the first month, but t...
i dont think the target audience for the orbs is getting blorva is the thing
simple delta
i dont think the target audience for the orbs is getting blorva is the thing
people liked the transfer of wealth
abstract valley
if you did the inferno and colo then you know its probably your next stop when you decide to do something challenging
and thats a lot of people
simple delta
I know quite a few irons who bitched and moaned about needing to get orbs for blorva
(tass was malding about it so often)
abstract valley
for irons its kind of a joke because there is an answer
its just a really stupid one
like im just gonna get on my maxed main to practice
dodging the whole point of the orbs for irons to begin with
you'd kinda have to be an idiot to learn on an iron lol unless you just had like
a billion orbs from pet hunting or something first
empty hare
irons bitchiing and moaning seems like a plus to me
abstract valley
its just one of those times where they had an idea for basically gp/hr concerns
and probably didn't really ask if it was fun gameplay or not
for example imagine if jad had a 100% chance to drop a ticket to doing the inferno
but you had to use one each try
that shit would be terrible
and you'd probably get them faster than you get awakener's orbs
oak widget
its just one of those times where they had an idea for basically gp/hr concerns
It’s really wild how many idea they tried with DT2
The did way too much all at once
rapid spoke
make axe pieces tradable 
pearl lichen
i dont really think jagex should gate people from attempting fun/hard/challengin...
i feel like u can have one or the other, not both
challenging content will necessarily require good gear which auto gatekeeps ppl
and thats fine
hard path
Lots of people also act like not having true max gatekeeps them from shit they could send in rags
fathom finch
you'd kinda have to be an idiot to learn on an iron lol unless you just had like
I learned on my iron, completed blorva, and have 35 orbs left...
oak widget
You can do basically everything in this game in rags
And all the awakened bosses, you can practice a lot of the awakened tech in regs
uneven totem
Lots of people also act like not having true max gatekeeps them from shit they c...
This tbh
People gatekeep themselves the most and blame everyone and everything else 🤣
patent nymph
update about rewards when?
hard path
update about rewards when?
Oh, doesn't format, anyways blossom is working on it
So probably in the next weekish
pearl lichen
Lots of people also act like not having true max gatekeeps them from shit they c...
agreed
wintry terrace
Well I’ll apologize for steering this thread to yama/dt2 in general but takeaway is = dt2 orb system is bad and trickle down econ for people who will never attempt aspirational content is bad. Don’t disincentive end game players from doing hard content and keep that poop away from soul armor challenges ty
simple delta
make orbs like skotizo totems where they're just good drop rate increases
rapid spoke
ORB
vale cloud
Lots of people also act like not having true max gatekeeps them from shit they c...
Ngl woke whisp without a shadow is horrible content but for the most part I agree. Shadow is just broken and impossible to balance that’s the underlying issue
digital summit
You can address it in pvm without changing shadow by releasing a weapon that can reasonably outperform it in some instances while not in others (but generally sitting below when in max gear).
If you do that, then shadow dwarfing every other thing isn’t as big of a deal and sang/trident effectively become the whip/tent/rapier of magic
Still have the concern about magic dmg in pvp but can also just cap pvp dmg% and call it a day
digital summit
You can address it in pvm without changing shadow by releasing a weapon that can...
Either the 3t wep that double rolls like fang or some of the double hit proposals - or anything similar - would do this
stable elbow
You can address it in pvm without changing shadow by releasing a weapon that can...
whats the point of megarares if they dont remain bis?
dire lodge
whats the point of megarares if they dont remain bis?
scythe isn't melee bis everywhere
stable elbow
wheres it not bis at?
oak widget
Nex and ToA for the obvious ones
And BP has lots of uses over tbow, even mainhand zcb has a handful of uses, venator bow as well
simple delta
wheres it not bis at?
A lot of fucking places
Good sir, it literally loses to shadow and tbow unless the content is specifically crafted to be better for scythe
It loses to venator bow at Colo if triple bounce, it loses to soulreaper at vard, it loses to emberlight at sire
And despite all of this, it’s the most balanced mega rare out of all three.
dire lodge
Shadow is problematic in that there really aren't cases where other magic weapons can sometimes be better DPS
Because nothing about it is really situational
It's just "the best magic weapon"
And it's so good that it forces all other magic gear to be bad without it
oak widget
Yeah shadow is ok if its role is “tank buster”, it’s not ok if its role is “bis everywhere”
It’s really hard atm to carve out spots for a magic BP though because shadow is SO overtuned on low defense spots where it should be weaker
vale cloud
Still have the concern about magic dmg in pvp but can also just cap pvp dmg% and...
Just delete PvP atp
Ruins all rewards
simple delta
And it's so good that it forces all other magic gear to be bad without it
Only 2 cases for this so far - ice demon and pnm pillars
stable elbow
Nex and ToA for the obvious ones
idk how more than one person was confused by my question lol
oak widget
Did I answer it?
stable elbow
im asking when youre going to use melee 100% of the time, where is scythe not bis at? only sire and vard were melee-based bosses.
oak widget
Or was I confused
simple delta
Mole
oak widget
Why does there need to be a qualifier of 100% of the time? That’s random
simple delta
I can run down the list of melee content and there’s going to be a lot lol
That’s why scythe was <500m for the longest time
oak widget
it was less than I expected, but toa and nex are the big ones
stable elbow
i genuinely dont know anything about scythe
toa doesnt count
you cant clear toa with a scythe
simple delta
You can
oak widget
Huh
simple delta
Scythe is BIS for for low invo baba btw
oak widget
Why does it not count?
simple delta
stable elbow
can you kill the last boss with scythe?
stable elbow
what about p1 and 2?
oak widget
P1 yeah
It could be solid with BGS
But other options are better
Which is why it’s not bis
stable elbow
youre treating this like im trying to argue that scythe is bis
when im trying to get info on where its bad
oak widget
you asked where it wasn’t bis
it’s not bis at toa, nex, mole
I think Emberlight wins at sire
and other demons
simple delta
and other demons
Only Duke is diff cuz 5t cycle pre enrage
digital summit
Shadow is problematic in that there really aren't cases where other magic weapon...
False
dire lodge
Why does it not count?
Because it's inconvenient to their point I guess
digital summit
https://imgur.com/a/mage-weapon-proposal-heka-v2-HiuCous
this is just an example of how you can accomplish that
digital summit
im asking when youre going to use melee 100% of the time, where is scythe not bi...
Vorkath
Is just the one that immediately comes to mind
simple delta
But yeah, anyone with an understanding of game balance and basic math knows scythe is the least used mega because it has too many caveats compared to tbow/shadow
digital summit
Barrows too if you want to crack jokes
stable elbow
shadow and tbow dont have to compete with 3 different attack styles
digital summit
Melee hydra is a genuine thing
stable elbow
not yet at least
digital summit
And that’s certainly a lance angle
simple delta
Tbow does 
digital summit
shadow and tbow dont have to compete with 3 different attack styles
Technically does now
simple delta
You know range is split into three styles now right
digital summit
https://imgur.com/a/mage-weapon-proposal-heka-v2-HiuCous
this is just an exampl...
But something like this, or a by messing with double hit mechanics (since it seems to be a theme in varlamore) create spaces for a new magic weapon to beat shadow while not entirely outpacing it game wide. Also sits much closer to shadow than it does sang
And you can further balance by making it 2h so that future shields can still be polled with unique effects and whatnot
And I think that’s a way better solution than trying to find another route for fixing shadow. If you go the route of buffing base max but lowering multiplier, you’re only preemptively “nerfing” future state shadow while dramatically buffing shadow with anything less than max gear. Think things like void or ahrims, they’d see a large buff with shadow if you went that direction
dire lodge
But something like this, or a by messing with double hit mechanics (since it see...
There's actually a really apt example of this (not actually beating shadow, but this concept) in the game right now with magic
Because the twinflame staff has its attack split over 2 hit splats, it can functionally bypass the damage cap at zulrah
digital summit
Exactly yeah, just bump it up a bit more to give it more general use case and balance it out to be generally just below shadow and all the sudden you have a really good stepping stone weapon that retains its own niche
Magic is so broken fundamentally that I really think that’s the best way to get around the shadow issue
dire lodge
I'd still really love to see them do something crazier
Like take the magic damage boost it provides and change it from +200% to +50%
then double magic damage on pretty much all gear
it'd provide a much smoother transition up to the shadow, lower level upgrades would do more than the literal nothing they often do when you get them now
and shadow damage would remain identical to before
triple damage is just WAY too extreme to balance around imo
simple delta
Make pnm pillars 150% instead of 70%
digital summit
What’s especially fucked up is shadow doesn’t currently have its damage cap appropriately built in 🤣
dire lodge
Could also nerf the shadow and drastically buff the magic damage on prayers
Since that's not tripled by the shadow, it's a safe place to move magic damage to
digital summit
Personally, I’d prefer either a faster hitting, highly accurate (double roll like fang), reasonably low hitting magic weapon OR a 4t double hit weapon that works similar to dclaws, where if you pass the first acc check, the second hit is a percentage of your first hit and if you fail the first but pass the second, you’ll roll up to your max or a percentage of your max again
dire lodge
and it's weird that the magic prayers are still dramatically less useful than melee/ranged ones
digital summit
But I mostly enjoy tob so there’s some bias. I try to keep general balancing in mind as best I can tho
dire lodge
I do kinda wonder if they're trying to work the harm staff up to being the "magic bp"
with elemental weaknesses
digital summit
If harm didn’t soft require tome, I’d prob get used a lot more lol
dire lodge
tomes are really just not in a great place tbh
I like that titans make pages easier to get, but them being charged at all when they only provide a 10% boost now feels bad
charges for a 50% boost? sure
dire lodge
elemental staffs providing a damage boost to their respective element could be neat
digital summit
Like fire staff, fire battle, doing 5 and 10% elemental for fire dmg or w/e
wild flint
tomes were only nerfed because of harm, right? after the addition of elemental weakness
digital summit
Basically ye
wild flint
I love high end magic weappns gutting the rest
dire lodge
nerfing early/midgame gear because of a super rare lategame item? that's osrs magic in a nutshell
Still though
I think 10% damage is okay
just like
don't require charges for that shit
digital summit
its almost as if we went from dragon scim -> scythe and then the next 2 years they added a bunch of new items to fit between rune scim and dragon scim
but with magic
dire lodge
It feels like they're still in denial about magic progression sucking tbh
digital summit
It’s like, we got all these upgrades between non charged staffs and tridents
wild flint
they never addressed it so I think so too
dire lodge
the depressing thing is that that area also needed focus
wild flint
closest thing about them acknowledging it was proposing a possible mage weapon between sang and shadow before they went to the drawing board with mokha
dire lodge
magic gear should also just have... way more magic damage
that would fix a lot of this imo
without even needing more weapons
digital summit
the depressing thing is that that area _also_ needed focus
True lmao
oak widget
shadow and tbow dont have to compete with 3 different attack styles
Tbow does and it also has the magic level knob that can be turned as well
slate harness
toa doesnt count
Why doesn’t ToA count when fully two rooms and the final phase of Akkha - not to mention the core - are exclusively melee
The whole point was to discuss where you melee that you don’t scythe
And the answers are many
Also to add onto the list, Wildy enemies/bosses, tormented demons, demonic gorillas are not scythed for bis
stable elbow
thats like saying zulrah because you cant kill zulrah with melee for now
or twinflame giants because of the range phase, where you cant melee them. if it cant be 100% completed with melee, then it shouldnt be included in the answer.
slate harness
That’s deranged. Just because you use multiple styles doesn’t mean you don’t use melee
Should you exclude Venenatis because you usually switch to kill spiderlings?
slate harness
Why does there need to be a qualifier of 100% of the time? That’s random
^
Like if you use the 100% criteria, then even shadow only has a couple places it’s bis and you completely exclude where it’s the most significant
That’s like saying shadow isn’t bis at ToA because you have to tribrid
And you reduce shadow to stating that it’s only bis for whisperer and kraken
Actually not even whisperer because you have to kill the ghosts with ranged
pastel ruin
I still think that the double hit Desmonbane weapon was meant for the new boss in the chasm
And the early crying just killed it for us
Not really part of any ongoing conversation
oak widget
Yeah big win on that end
All the mechanics associated with that demonbane weapon would’ve been really unfortunate if they came in
Now Yama is coming before it and they can focus on designing around TDs weapons
vocal plaza
Yama better be reasonably solo able like takes maybe 1.5x long to solo. Like how the titans are developed.
I like how the titans are designed
simple delta
Yama better be reasonably solo able like takes maybe 1.5x long to solo. Like how...
titans was designed to have psuedo-interruptions, which is why its 2.5x as long to solo on average
not 1.5x
crystal steeple
just get a friend
u rlly telling me out of thousands of players u cant find 1 person
should absolutely take a long time to solo
otherwise if its fast everyone will just be soloing it
vocal plaza
No but I want to play on my time
vocal plaza
So if it’s slightly slower than duo then idm solo
vocal plaza
No it’s not, it goes against being an Ironman
crystal steeple
group with other ironmen
vocal plaza
No
crystal steeple
yes
zealous bear
i would reasonably expect the boss to be at least 2x longer than duo
vocal plaza
Which is fine
zealous bear
i think more forced group content is good though
crystal steeple
and duo isnt even hard
vocal plaza
I’m not I’m saying it should be sup boss but also soloable
crystal steeple
u can find another person easily
id understand if it was 5 man minimum or something
but 1 more person
vocal plaza
i think more forced group content is good though
No it’s not
crystal steeple
ur just being weird at this point
zealous bear
iirc they said it could be soloable on the blog iirc
but that it would be harder/longer
vocal plaza
Correct
crystal steeple
yh soloable but it has to be way hardeer and longer
vocal plaza
Which is fine
vocal plaza
It doesn’t have to be way harder or longer
zealous bear
No it’s not
my g there is like 2 pieces of content that reasonably requries teammates in the game
crystal steeple
just say u dont have friends
crystal steeple
nex and tob are the only 2 pieces of pvm content that is group that i can think of
and we have what
zealous bear
^ yea basically
crystal steeple
50+ bosses+raids total?
vocal plaza
Ya and they both suck
zealous bear
REAL
crystal steeple
i think the issue is you suck
but looks like we're going in a good direction anyway
the new ceo loves tob
new end game group boss
zealous bear
nex is backported so its not really a good point of discussion
crystal steeple
new raid hopefulyl like tob
zealous bear
but tob is peak
crystal steeple
ez
zealous bear
inb4 we wait 4 years for toa2
vocal plaza
Really now, I suck because I’m playing iron and not buying my achievement like a GE abusing reject.
zealous bear
😳
vocal plaza
I mean tob is not even a good raid
zealous bear
kindly elaborate
zealous bear
or is tob only not a good raid because the average person cant solo it
vocal plaza
What? It has nothing to do with finding friends or people to play with
zealous bear
so whys tob bad
crystal steeple
so whats the issue
vocal plaza
or is tob only not a good raid because the average person cant solo it
Solo tob is not hard, it’s just not worth doing.
crystal steeple
tob is literally most peoples favourite raid
it has distinct roles and flows well
zealous bear
surely !pb tob 1 for me
acoustic mesa
ToB is a great raid
I hate nylos because it takes forever even at max efficiency (which I'm not nearly at), and I'm bad at tick eating so sote is annoying
but every other fights slaps
zealous bear
and its pretty worth doing if you're eff at it
idk wym its like 20m/hr or smth
assuming like max eff ofc
crystal steeple
damn scy at 1.8b
zealous bear
all the tob scales are pretty balanced gp/hr wise iirc
vocal plaza
Solo is bad
zealous bear
ah i see understandable have a nice day
slate harness
Solo is bad
So don’t solo the content explicitly designed as group content
Easy as that
simple delta
You can still solo it if you want
vocal plaza
Why would I spend over 1 hour doing solo tob when I can do 16 min trios
simple delta
Why would I spend over 1 hour doing solo tob when I can do 16 min trios
for 3x the chance in a trio
it's literally the 1.5x worse in solo that ur asking for 
vocal plaza
Solo tob is not worth the effort because of how the bosses are designed around bug abusing
simple delta
the average time to see a purple in a solo is ~10 hours
the average time to see a purple in your name in a trio is ~7-8 hours.
slate harness
Solo tob is not worth the effort because of how the bosses are designed around b...
The issue is right here
The bosses aren’t designed around bug abuse
They literally just didn’t design them to be soloed
Simple as that
vocal plaza
Correct
simple delta
Well, they did make it way easier to solo now. No more bug abuse needed
slate harness
You’re conflating people being good at the game with intentional design
Also “bug abuse” is a very strong term
And I would argue it’s definitely just making best use of game mechanics
Tick eating isn’t a bug, it’s just how damage calculation works/sequences
vocal plaza
Most the mechanics are bugs that was left in and became mechanics
slate harness
I assume yes
simple delta
Tick eating isn’t a bug, it’s just how damage calculation works/sequences
you dont need to tick eat anymore
zealous bear
simple delta
sote ball only hits 75
slate harness
Also true they did make changes as mentioned
simple delta
just fking brew and blood fury
slate harness
But like
zealous bear
the lightning ball also scales down now (only if the raid is solo scale)
slate harness
You literally never needed to
Or the first person to solo tob on footage would have been banned for bug abuse
zealous bear
i think its like max 16 in solo scale or smth? i could be wrong, but you can just redempt it
vocal plaza
My Friday of triggering elitest by calling tob bad has been complete.
simple delta
it just makes you look ignorant tbh
slate harness
“It’s ok guys I was joking”
vocal plaza
It’s still fun to this day
simple delta
i think its like max 16 in solo scale or smth? i could be wrong, but you can jus...
yeah, just soloing is viable otherwise samsquach wouldnt have 10 solo scythes
zealous bear
yea soloing is viable
vocal plaza
Glad raids 4 is no puzzle tob like that’s soloable
zealous bear
and if you're good its like a 45 minute raid
zealous bear
Glad raids 4 is no puzzle tob like that’s soloable
i dont think they said raids 4 would be soloable
🤔
or at least designed w solo in mind
vocal plaza
It will. They learned from tob.
simple delta
the only thing they learned from tob is that toa is shit
vocal plaza
Like tob means boss rush with no dumbass puzzles
slate harness
I sure hope they learned from tob that they made a good raid that should require distinct teamplay
I mean let’s be real
Cut the monkey room out of ToA and the puzzles are a nonissue
vocal plaza
Toa is fine, purple rate to high. Raid designed around fang. So everything has to much damn defense.
zealous bear
or even pot pickup duos on flashcord
hazy jetty
this isnt even the yama thread
slate harness
Toa is fine, purple rate to high. Raid designed around fang. So everything has t...
So you stated 3 of the biggest issues and said the raid is fine, while ignoring the other 20 issues the raid has
zealous bear
i mean delve boss is in the cage rn so i guess its free rein
vocal plaza
Don’t see any issues with toa besides group purple chance bing 55% for no lifers. Who qq about someone doing a 150 and getting a purple at a 1/50
Toa has worst rate than chambers at lower invos
simple delta
because ur being ignorant again
because if a 150 has 1/50, then a solo 500 shouldn't be 1/50
It scales up
And they learned this during week 1 that no one wants to do 300+ raid level if the efficient raid level is 250
vocal plaza
500 solo is 1/7
vocal plaza
Group is 1/1.5 that’s the problem
slate harness
The normal loot was way overtuned, shadow plays an even bigger role than fang, the invocation system never got update like they promised it would be, the raid is scaled in a way that just makes leveling up turn bosses into meat sacks where you’re forced to avoid all mechanics rather than engage with them
There’s way more issues
simple delta
it's like telling a software engineer that ur only going to pay them mcdonalds wage
it's like telling irons they have to do 2000 normal gautnlets for bowfa if CG was same rate as normal guantlet
slate harness
The issue with ToA is they tried to put infinite ironman candy on a raid balanced around entry level normal raids and it scales poorly as a result
vocal plaza
I liked toa boss mechanics, as I actually interacted with the bosses. Everyone using red-x butterfly just means they don’t want to interact.
simple delta
team size shouldn't scale as hard either, that i agree with
vocal plaza
Then blame the bosses
simple delta
but they didn't want you to 0-down warden