game-update

[meager flame]

the problem is getting enough players interested in pvp in the first place to want to make updates

[silk thicket]

Plus veng bots

Insta veng if off PID spec etc

[meager flame]

its probably really hard to get anything done when you can't exactly justify the project a lot of the time

[sullen coral]

If they don't make updates, how will the PvP playerbase grow, for them to have enough players to justify making PvP updates?

[silk thicket]

Spec if hp is below a certain value etc

[brisk hill]

You don’t think them making wildy updates for ppl who engage in PvP is wildy activity is the actual problem?
Could you point out any updates that folks enjoy on either side?

[ruby loom]

Stop polling pvp updates for 6 months

Then tweak from there

[silk thicket]

Don’t think it solves anything except ripping away the place we go for quick consistent nh fights that is low but okay gp/h

[meager flame]

the issue is that jagex is probably unwilling to give pvp the scope for big exciting updates because most of their players don't like pvp in the first place

[silk thicket]

Putting everything in bh just takes the problem and moves it over there

[meager flame]

so listening to the people who do enjoy pvp currently would be nice for them but doesn't fix why jagex doesn't make those updates in the first place

[ruby loom]

LMS was intended to be a pvp entry minigame

[sullen coral]

PvP used to be more popular - the neglect and updates not hitting the mark has driven away a lot of the people who loved PvP

[silk thicket]

Plus bh is so boring man

[meager flame]

like honestly

[silk thicket]

LMS casual was supposed to be, but why not have a chance at some gp

Nobody will play lms after this

People will genuinely stop playing the game

[meager flame]

jagex is probably going to have to just decide on some direction and make some big crazy update without polls and hope they're actually good at game design and people like it

[silk thicket]

Nobody likes hopscape

[ruby loom]

I wanna see variations of LMS, instead of everything being NH

[meager flame]

otherwise pvp is probably in the basement forever

[silk thicket]

Ppl won’t fight for 0 gp

They won’t find fights without hopping 100x

And they’ll quit

[sullen coral]

Every year, 14 major updates are PvM/skilling and 2 are PvP.. Source: A particular youtuber looked through all the blog posts.

PvP Arena was released with no rewards and left broken for 2 years (still is)

Imagine if raids were released like that, or imagine if 14 updates of the year were PvP and only 2 were PvM/skilling

107 members on the OSRS team and I only know of 2 of them that are more focused on PvP updates. Imagine if they had more devs actually assigned to PvP.

[ruby loom]

LMS was a battle royale fail in my opinion

Should start with nothing and loot items like hunger games

That's a real last man standing

Spawn with maple shortbow and rune 2h

Then loot p2p

[meager flame]

they probably should've made an extraction shooter mode not a BR

just without the shooter part

osrs would work really well with something like that

the wilderness is already basically the alpha version of an extraction game

[sullen coral]

what is that like

[meager flame]

basically imagine you spawn in with your team and you go collect resources and fight other teams if you see them or try to escape them

[sullen coral]

Stealing Creation?

[meager flame]

then you go somewhere with your loot and begin the process of escaping

if you get away you get the loot

[restive storm]

It started as that, and it was horrible

That’s literally what it was and it was the least fun thing to do ever lol

[meager flame]

not really because a lot of those games have you risk the loot you bring in to begin with

[obsidian venture]

What a banger blog. Surely gets passed

[silk thicket]

LMS updates pass and thousands of players stop playing the game

[meager flame]

i think for osrs they might need to adjust that somehow though

[silk thicket]

Actual bonkers concept

[restive storm]

I mean lms aren’t getting polled those are just happening lol

[silk thicket]

Also bh just gets infested with bots

[meager flame]

because it would be kinda fucked if you spawned into this extraction game and it was a team of 3 that was in absolute max vs a couple teams of 3 wearing rags

[silk thicket]

Ye if they do it then gf wildy

It’s over

[meager flame]

you kinda wouldn't be able to do anything about that and honestly

[silk thicket]

Legitimately

[meager flame]

they probably just dont want you to put that much on the line

[restive storm]

I don’t think it’ll really have any sort of impact on the Wildy

[silk thicket]

Why not?

[sullen coral]

I'd rather Jagex just try things like they are right now and see how it goes

[restive storm]

Because probably 98% of people who do lms have never pked a day in their life

[sullen coral]

LMS with less terminator bots might mean I would have a chance there :D

[restive storm]

Like it sucks that it’s no longer gonna be active as a warm up for pking

But otherwise not changing really anything

[obsidian venture]

Surge sacks being there is very nice

[silk thicket]

There have been hardly any for the longest time

[obsidian venture]

Overall solid blog

[restive storm]

Agree this is good for pkers, interested to see if it’ll be active enough to warrant going there to farm them tho lol

[obsidian venture]

As long as pkers still get the “trouver” gp from folks bringing stuff it’s fine

[restive storm]

If it’s just dead then farming them gonna be a pain

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

Well if it’s in lms, it’s probably going to be buyable from the ge

I’d hope

[brisk hill]

This is such a nothing burger, but why do you think they didn’t add DCB to the starter set

[obsidian venture]

But if not, you’d see more pkers seshing there which is good

[ashen yarrow]

thye are moved to bounty hunter rewards so no issue, 500k death fee remains

[obsidian venture]

Ngl same

[obsidian venture]

Yeah I mean the trouver risk

[silk thicket]

Ima disagree I think people send lms when they cba hopping around or when they want nh fights for a lil bit but don’t wanna commit a lot of time

Also I think lms serves the wildy where players who can click a bit can practice til they’re more confident and feel like they can put up a fight

Remove the second part and u have ppl who won’t go to lms because no gp and time waste, so they stay bad with no clicks, and they try wildy but get stomped every time so they never go again

[restive storm]

Prob just didnt really think too much about it

[sullen coral]

as long as the rewards moved to BH are tradeable I'm good, because bounty hunter isn't a real minigame, it's risk PKing

[ashen yarrow]

yeah death risk remains same, just different place to obtain and 1 time use for permanent "protection"

[obsidian venture]

Like I’m bringing quiver/inferno deep wildy, and I get pked, pker should get 1m + whatever I risk

[silk thicket]

Ppl like nh fights as content and if u remove the best way for them to consistently enjoy their content they’ll simply quit playing the game. Maybe not on day 1 but maybe on day 61

[obsidian venture]

Basically if it’s the same rn then it’s fine

Disliked trouver as a whole and I’m glad they finally addressed it

Legit banger blog

@winter hearth thank you

[ashen yarrow]

huge ironman update too with the trouver change. i dont care if i lose 500k in deep wildy, if you can now have permanent divine rune pouch and capes in wildereness that just means more dps on bosses

[obsidian venture]

Yeah that’s cool for them

[silk thicket]

Honestly if I log in and I hop a bit but don’t find fights, then I check if anyone wants arena seshes and no one wants, ima log off for the day. If that happens 5x in a row ima lose interest and stop logging in at all

[obsidian venture]

Making mole a bit more relevant is nice

[gusty marsh]

Having two separate gem bags that just arbitrarily hold different types of gems is unnecessarily convoluted (especially for newcomers)

Please make it a single upgrade chain and have all tiers hold all gems....

[restive storm]

I think maybe several years ago I’d kinda agree, but I think the Wildy itself is already so dead I don’t think many people even bother to make the lms -> Wildy jump cuz u just hop worlds for 300 hours and find nobody lol

[sullen coral]

agreed should just be 1 big bag

[obsidian venture]

Idm if it goes the rc bag route tbh

[harsh herald]

just read the blog post, why does it seem that the solution to all wildy bots is to either make it hard for players or remove the fun element rather than improve detection systems lol

[obsidian venture]

Wdym?

They’ve been banning wildy bots

[sullen coral]

They've been trying to improve bot detection for over 20 years, it's an industry problem

[silk thicket]

Some people do tbf, but hopping puts a lot of people off. But that’s basically ur only source of new pkers. Then they remove the only source of new pkers and wildy is over over

Plus what about all those ppl that like playing lms for lms? The ppl that don’t go into wildy. U think lms players are the type to go kill 1500 basilisk knights? They’re unsubscribing

[harsh herald]

the lms changes and the last round of achievement diary changes

[obsidian venture]

I think it’s fine tbh

Stuff should have reqs

And the reqs aren’t hard for a real player

[silk thicket]

This would be an absolutely bonkers decision to remove an entire minigame (very popular btw!) instead of banning the bots faster

Even add a 3 day timer where points are “pending” before u can spend them if it takes a few days to ban them

[brisk hill]

I can understand the idea of the entire process feeling more cumbersome due to added diary reqs

[harsh herald]

its not that theyre necessarily hard, but changing for example the diaries unpolled after years of being in the game has some knock on affect on niche accounts that arent considered

just a bit meh

[brisk hill]

Not only do you have to spend 100+ hours grinding your str alone, now you have to also do a diary

I can see it. But is also a nothing burger if you’re a main

Probably only affects pures & other niche builds that don’t take long

[harsh herald]

skillers cant complete medium wilderness diary, so they can't get any resources at all from rogues chest since the change

thats a pretty signifcant change

[brisk hill]

Yeah my pov is strictly from the pvp side, idk about a skillers quarrels 👍

[restive storm]

Good imo, more people should be quitting like me til we actually get something to do in the game

[brisk hill]

Can’t wait to see squintz in multi

[harsh herald]

at the same point too tbh, barely played the past couple of weeks now

[south void]

It would be awesome if Jagex had a program that scanned your client files to detect unapproved tampering sort of like an anti-cheat that simply checked whether you have cheat files in your client files, instead of the approved ones such as those from the approved plugin panel. Would at least get rid of clienters. Program checks files, if you have tampered files instead of the approved it won't let you login to the servers. Wouldn't that be awesome.

[gusty marsh]

Not sure how the current gem bag would fit into that upgrade line, maybe it becomes 'Percy's ol' gem bag' or something and is primarily used as a combination item for the final tier

either way, I do think simplifying how gem bags work by making them *all * universal is much more ideal
@winter hearth

[silk thicket]

That’d be easy but the community are getting in the way bcos they won’t let go of runelite

That was the entire vision with the official client and its api

But muh runelite

And now they’re removing lms

[south void]

Tbf, Runelite could do the same implementation following what I said also.

[silk thicket]

It already does afaik but it’s easily bypassed because Java? Idk not a programmer

Something about the official client and launcher makes it different

[restive storm]

@zinc galleon was asking for people yday after the multi boss update, and one hour after I said no it got reverted 😂 so glad I didn’t waste the gp on a bond to try it

[south void]

I have the same setup for my Ark and 7 Days to Die servers. The users cannot login if they change any of the default (approved) mods or vanilla files that I don't pre-approve before trying to login. And if they do, it sends them a warning message stating to revert their files back to default or else they cannot enter the server.

[restive storm]

I think goblin said it’s still slightly different, like if you log out in the boss lair you go outside the lair similar to singles or something? But ain’t no way I’m killing the boss every world hop man lol

[tacit wharf]

imagine not training (x), then complaining cuz you cant do something that requires (x)

as for niche builds, they really shouldnt be a consideration when updating the game for these builds, just kinda how the goalposts move in a game like runescape

[restive storm]

We make updates for niche builds (ironmen) literally all the time despite initially being told that wouldn’t be the case. So it’s not really a big ask for others lol

[tacit wharf]

ill just let you keep smokin whatever it is yr on because any person in their right mind knows, ironman isnt a niche gamemode

[restive storm]

Right… we’ll pretend the majority of the game plays uim (who get their own polls)

[sacred oracle]

The funny thing about the proposed update to me is it confirms Jagex are intentionally keeping clog out of bh

I thought perhaps it was coincidental, but moving items from LMS to BH and removing them from clog in the process makes it specific

[tacit wharf]

i mean prevents a need for boosting for those items

[sacred oracle]

Perhaps it reduces the want for boosting, but it doesn't eliminate it. I've desperately wanted the transmogs since day 1.

Just not enough to pvp

[buoyant mist]

That’s not what people’s complaint was though. People’s complaint is being allowed access to content for x amount of years and then being arbitrarily locked out of it because of bots. Like I play a skiller, I expect content to come out I can’t access that’s part of the playstyle. I don’t expect content to be randomly taken away because the game has a bot problem. Should we not be allowed to cut trees or hunt chins because bots do the content?

[tacit wharf]

but goblin did think about maybe putting the cosmetics in emir's and the tradables in bh

[tacit wharf]

so you understand requirements for some things do/have to change over time

in this instance a shit ton of gold coming for basically very little in a wilderness spot, so, they locked it behind a relatively easy req for most players to do but annoying for mass suiciding accounts find annoying to have to do

[slate badger]

Seems to be more and more common. Using the BH example, all of the BH hats used to be accessible for all combat levels, but now they're locked behind BH which has bans for boosting and a 32 cb req

[slate badger]

By doing this you're punishing people who make accounts in later years than others

"Well... you used to be able to get this item on that account type, but not anymore. You could only get it if you made your account in 20xx"

[tacit wharf]

that is the life u live when u build a niche pvp account is yr scenario

game requirements change over time

[buoyant mist]

But they don’t find it annoying to do, that’s the whole problem. 84 thieving takes longer than the medium wilderness diary takes, it’s not a barrier to bots, it’s a barrier to legitimate players. There were several 100m+ xp bots there for months on end, a few hours doing the medium wildy diary is not going to remotely impact the time it takes to get that far in.

Like yeah it’s a niche account I get that

[tacit wharf]

to expect them not to when it keeps getting abused is absurd

[buoyant mist]

But this is objectively false before the last few years

[slate badger]

A bit of a history lesson for you:
BH was boosted/botted bc it had rewards with gp value
Jagex removed/moved most of these rewards
Jagex made LMS and added similar rewards with gp value
LMS got botted/boosted instead
Jagex's solution: Move these rewards to BH

Impacting real players while not solving the problem

just moving the boosters/bots

32 combat is arguably easier to achieve than 750 total and 30qp

[tacit wharf]

🍿

[slate badger]

Guess I owned you

[restive storm]

You know… when you actually summarize the events that have happened over the years you can’t help but laugh

They’re so lost

[buoyant mist]

All that will happen is the botting at LMS will move to BH now because they will go where the profit is imo. I mean if they decided to change it, they change it. It won’t be the first or last time they do things that I don’t agree with or like.

[slate badger]

LMS bot value going down, BH bot value going up

🤯

Cloggers:

Real players:

[restive storm]

It’s so annoying to be told “niche accounts shouldn’t get updates catered to them” then we get clogger updates and stuff like scar essence mine that .001% of the player base has ever used

[buoyant mist]

I wouldn’t even say niche anymore compared to some of the account styles people play now. Like yeah, maybe I’m biased as I play one, but skillers have been around since the dawn of RS, they’ve given us an official build page on the hiscores, they’ve made efforts to make things accessible previously. At the point of making official hiscores for accounts to me that makes them recognised playstyles same as 1 def pures, would just be nice to have a little consideration sometimes

[restive storm]

Agreed for sure, pures and skillers have their own highscores but are treated like second class citizens when they been around since the dawn of time

[ashen yarrow]

there are few higher requirement runes that mains could use scar extracts to make profit but for most players at that point they can make faster profit in other places

[hollow pumice]

fire the jmod that wrote this

immediately

[ashen yarrow]

it is harder to bot but not impossible

[hollow pumice]

there's an entire world dedicated to botting it to boost accounts

😭

it has way lower reqs to bot

[ashen yarrow]

bounty hunter removed in 2 months and then brought back 5 years later in same condition

[hollow pumice]

the entire top 500 of bh players are boosted by bots

[ashen yarrow]

that is different though, they are boosting for ranks

[hollow pumice]

now they'll be boosting for gp

wasn't really an incentive before

[buoyant mist]

That’s it, although unfortunately the popular view point does seem to be that anything that isn’t a main deserves nothing. I fully expect to not be allowed or able to access certain content, but it does grate to have it taken away after long periods of time. I know it’s very specific to the playstyle im in but there’s already so many accounts that are impossible to recreate or achievements that are made infinitely harder by having things taken away often years after it was introduced

[hollow pumice]

mark my words, once this goes live 569 is going to be jam packed with bots

Good time to farm bh weapons

if you have a lower cmb acc

[ashen yarrow]

boosting players with bots is different than bot farms

[white field]

What is the next rugpull?

[hollow pumice]

for sure, but they're 100% just going to switch gears now that there's real reason to bot it

good time to have the pvp uim actually, can probably pick off level 3s

[ashen yarrow]

to get around the botting issue we need 20+ real players in each bracket hunting bots so they cannot sustain profit

well really only bottom 2 brackets

[brisk hill]

Rly doubt that tbh

But if it happens it’s gonna be funny as fk

[hollow pumice]

It was already pretty bad when the only incentive was cosmetics & ranks

[ashen yarrow]

bots would need to be able to afk inside bounty hunter area for pretty long time to be profitable

[hollow pumice]

I used to snipe bot farms to get t10s

[hollow pumice]

they're probably just gonna boost emblems

[ashen yarrow]

oh right if they move them to shop instead of crates

[brisk hill]

Other than the Aussie world which is just normie players boosting sprinkled in the legit aussies, do you see boosting bots in UK/US bh worlds?

It’s been a few years since I’ve seen it

[hollow pumice]

nah

but those have actual players

so bots get intercepted

[brisk hill]

It’s interesting the idea of the Lms bot going to bh. Obviously they would make tweaks but there’s no need to prayer switch or 1t everything perfect in bh. Curious to see how OP they would get initially

Obviously bot maker would make tweaks later to make them OP

But directly injecting an Lms bot into BH would be funny

[hollow pumice]

honestly i think they may just have the bots deathmatch each other

let certain bots farm emblems + ep so they can double dip on getting crates

[brisk hill]

That would satisfy the boosting requirements at minimum

[ashen yarrow]

they wouldnt be combat bot they would be same version that farmed in edge in previous bh version

[brisk hill]

I kept seeing ppl talking about lms bots in BH & thought they literally meant the megatron bots lol

Ty for clarifying

[hollow pumice]

i'm suprised ornate handle hasn't gone to the moon

[ashen yarrow]

it is just harder to bot this version of bh because of the larger lvl brackets

[south void]

It rose by 100k or so immediately after then went back down a bit.

[brisk hill]

There’s also nowhere to hide

[hollow pumice]

There are some interesting mechanics you can abuse though

can target teleport to null hits

idk if the tabs work for that so maybe not bot arsenal

[brisk hill]

Not disagreeing, how would a bot take advantage of this?

[hollow pumice]

You can force people to get matchmaking banned, & when you get matchmaking banned you don't get loot for rogue kills

which might fuck over bot hunters

[restive storm]

I guess my question is kinda like… if they couldn’t police bh in one world before what makes them think they can do it now? lol

[brisk hill]

Maybe instead of PvP being an everyone job you assign just a few ppl to it

Omg

[south void]

Well, now they have to spend less attention at LMS I guess is the theory. (meaning more attention to spend on BH).

[hollow pumice]

Not 200% sure really

maybe prevent bots from getting rushed if they have high ep

[ashen yarrow]

would require the scroll to crash hard for bots to use since currently its over 8m gp

[hollow pumice]

i'm imagining the tabs

but i'll have to test if they still null hits

[south void]

Conspiracy theory, what if they are moving granite maul handle/clamp to BH to avoid ease of access because it's going to be the new bis spec weapon to use in raids 4. (Joking).

[ashen yarrow]

i already have 1 upgraded gmaul on iron so im fine, could use 5-6 more trouver parchments if i want to add them on void for some reason

[south void]

Respect for the ironmen accounts out there, I remember doing my rune pouch in lms on mine and it near sent me into a spiral because all I could get kills on were the broken bots standing still.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd use my slayer points even though it's an outrageous amount of slayer points for a rune pouch.

[inner pelican]

it's a reasonable get in mage training now

[south void]

I originally thought a rune pouch would come from the mage training arena reward shop, imagine my shock.

[ashen yarrow]

the swift blade is one item that i technically could use from lms but i dont want to grind it

[south void]

Right, right. I did mine a long time ago before that.

[brisk hill]

Is VLS still obtainable from Lms?

[hollow pumice]

believe so

[south void]

I'd opt for ham joint doing clues, and I dislike clues.

[ashen yarrow]

yes, untradabales dont move to bh

[silk thicket]

U mean easier? If a bot farm is all combat 30 they’ll just be matched with themselves over and over

Also bots can do insane combos

Hp drops below some threshold and 4x thrownaxe

Hope pures enjoy new bh

[brisk hill]

If the bots ever got to the point where they were in LMS but in BH, you could just delete PvP & call it a day tbh

Fully automated bots like that would make it to wildy & then we’d be done fr

[silk thicket]

I don’t understand how “its harder to bot” is even an argument

If a bot script can be written to nh and adjust to new gear etc

It can be written to veng ur off PID vw

[brisk hill]

Would be insane

[silk thicket]

Double gmaul on xp drop etc

[ashen yarrow]

before they could stand in lvl1 wilderness on minimum lvl accounts. they are not going to go for high level bots in most cases

[silk thicket]

Pure brackets would be unplayable

[silk thicket]

LMS bots were 40-90cb

[hollow pumice]

that's what i'm saying they're just lying for fun 😭

[brisk hill]

There’s a few that do this already tho for sure

[silk thicket]

With total level reqs

[hollow pumice]

and bh doesn't even have the total level req

comical

[silk thicket]

Yeah exactly these things are already in cheat clients 🤣

There’s no argument for moving to bh

[hollow pumice]

"this minigame we don't moderate is harder to bot because we said so"

[brisk hill]

Bro pls no. I don’t want 1500 total lvl on my obby mauler

[chrome lantern]

I have swift blade and don't use mine

[silk thicket]

Actually bonkers idea man

So many people would quit

Wildy would die

[hollow pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/mining-pakistani-pakistani-miner-pakistani-mining-coal-gif-1265210761147612079

[silk thicket]

Bh would be unplayable

LMS would be gone

[hollow pumice]

Glad i started my bh uim right before they announced a change that would almost make it unusable

[silk thicket]

I feel like I’ve been pretty level headed responding to almost everything in this server but man this is just bonkers

[south void]

I got dual macas instead, they seem to work better than swift blade for my use cases.

[chrome lantern]

Swift blade is a lot harder to use well at nylo

And I'm not that good at it for sure xd

[restive storm]

Lms didn’t exist back when they couldn’t ban the bh bot farms I don’t think did it?

[ashen yarrow]

so basically people are thinking there will be 2 different version of bounty hunter bots. Ones that are lowest level possible and ones that are min-maxed build with terminator script

[brisk hill]

LOL

[silk thicket]

Ye it’s just the same thing as lms - afk bots in lms turn into low level bots that just kill each other, and the nh bots turn into bots that spec/veng based on opponents hp

Imagine u make a baby pure and u go bh
U fight some bot that uses sunlight cbow gmaul as +1
As soon as it gets an xp drop for 19+ it sends insta double maul

Gf what u gna do about that

And even if u kill it gz u gained a 7k gp key

Ppl complain about clienters being a problem, at least op bot scripts are confined to a sandbox in lms where u don’t lose ur items

Get rid of the sandbox and ppl are losing their gp to bots

Plus the bots still buy the same items from bh shop 😂

[dim monolith]

have they decided on how they'll implement the new food yet? ik there was a poll for it.

[tacit wharf]

im sure they'll have a better idea after the opinion poll ends

[exotic lodge]

forgive me if this is covered in the blog and i just missed it, but are all skilling outfits safe above level 20 wilderness now?

[ember token]

All untradeable items that don't currently 'break', for example the Graceful set, will no longer be lost on death above Level 20 Wilderness.

[exotic lodge]

ye im not sure if any of em break

[ember token]

This applies to any untradeable item that isn't found on this list.

[exotic lodge]

ty

[ember token]

so yeah it was covered in the blog

[meager flame]

lmao this is me with all of the weapons like that

i have several of them but end up just not caring enough to use them

although i probably would use it in tob if the boppers weren't so easy

and i could use the ham joint at pnm but its also pretty easy to just be lazy and kill them with a 4t instead

[ashen yarrow]

The update has not been implemented into the game yet, so amke sure you dont run into deep wildy with graceful before the update actually is in the game later on

[analog crow]

is there any benefit to using swiftblade or ham joint over just using the goblin paint cannon?

[meager flame]

yeah they're 1 handed

so if you have a defender or something

[analog crow]

does that play a role in practice in nylo room though?

Can you not just drop a brew or smth like in toa?

[meager flame]

you're more accurate because the defender has stats

[analog crow]

yeah fair

[meager flame]

its all a bit silly though honestly

because these days you can just bring boppers and because of the double hit they're honestly just very close and easier to use

sulfur blades too because you can even drop those if you're really crazy

but for most people you can kinda just take the boppers and be happy

[analog crow]

good to know

[ashen yarrow]

can use defender and swift blade has different attack style options separate from dragon warhammer. multi hitting weapons can do fine nowdays i guess

ham joint also 1 handed but defender gives slightly less accuracy to crush

[neon gate]

Do not use 3t for nylo

For pnm I always thought you needed crush so it was mandatory ham or rpg but I could be dumb

[austere mulch]

For the record, 3t is still good in Nylo at the very top end. Double hitting weps are generally better for 99.999% of players tho

Basically if it even has to be questioned, then chances are it’s not going to be beneficial for you to use 3t over double hit

[round lintel]

To be honest the unpolled changes are a little bit rough when you have bots in LMS but they usually die first fight against a real player probably 3 out 15 lms bots are getting points

However, bounty hunter has an entire dedicated low lvl bot farm

Making much more and now moving the rewards that actually make gp there is just gonna skyrock their profits

Time to make a lvl 30 acct to make Billions off these bots in BH I guess.

[ember token]

is that the narrative now

lms bots were hardly an issue and bh is actually full of bots

[round lintel]

LMS bots are an issue yes... but I dont know if you watched Sir Pugger

He made a vid on the BH bots a few months back

So is not new

[ember token]

no i dont watch sir botter

[round lintel]

They are really low lvl

[meager flame]

i dont really think its a situation where its this or that

jagex should've put their foot all the way down on lms and the way it was designed like

years ago

[round lintel]

Well is not a new narrative just that really those bots are sky rocketing in profits when this is implemented

[meager flame]

and if bh is messed up they should fix that too

i just wish their design goal wasn't in perfect sync with the ideal bot farm anytime they do anything with pvp content

[round lintel]

Again, time to make a new lvl 30 dbower acct

[meager flame]

like they're totally their own worst enemy lol

they want pvp to be so accessible that they just open the flood gates to crazy suicide bot farms

every time

[round lintel]

Yeah I mean Ive seen LMS bots are few and just 2 boxing each other get to the end

Compared to a year ago where 20 out of 24 were bots

[meager flame]

tbf that was only a recent thing

and the terminator bots already returned recently as well

lms is almost always swamped in them

[round lintel]

Ah yea I hate those dd under bots

[ember token]

and their idea of making pvp accessible is letting low levels do it instead of removing all the unnecessary wildy specific rules that make it work differently from the rest of the game

[meager flame]

ya they basically take the lazy way out every time

[round lintel]

But with sotd now is kinda ez cuz has decent melee

[ember token]

sorry bud, cant resize your spell icons in the wildy

[meager flame]

its like

[round lintel]

Also those dd under bots break when you 1t prayer

[meager flame]

i dont even know how to describe it every time they just throw away every bit of common sense on the spot

[slate badger]

Lmaooooo

[round lintel]

So they keep swapping from cbow to whip

[meager flame]

i cant even really believe it isn't intentional lol

[ashen yarrow]

jagex has already patched what those bots used to freely skip targets, idk how much that affects it

[meager flame]

like if we take pvp and the wilderness etc out of the equation for a second

they would never ever ever do any of the shit they do with the content from drop rates to requirements

and lol they keep putting it all to the side for their pvp updates and every time

they fall apart for the same reason

[round lintel]

Thats the thing they would just profit more that doesnt matter if they die to a real player

[meager flame]

its unbelievable

like they dont respect the wild and pvp the way they respect the rest of the entire game

and they should change that

they should have requirements they should have sane drop rates and tables

they should get quests and so on

[round lintel]

I feel they just believe in a perfect game system and not really interact with the game itself

They probably log into the dev world

And thats it

[meager flame]

half the battle is jagex defeating themselves before they even drop the content

like they really cant just release hot trash like zombie pirates

where its just blindingly obvious that its a bot farm

lmao idk how it even happens maybe they're just so cooked and convinced they cant have a good idea

that they just add rewards to bad ideas until someone will come and play

[ashen yarrow]

sadly most of the players only think about gp, so if it doesnt make a lot of profit or give some specific reward it is dead on arrival regardless

[round lintel]

yes and no

Wildy is supposed to be rewarding but zombie pirates is another level

on release was high profit x hr

for ANYONE

and it was in such a spot where scaping is not hard

and higher level accts couldnt att lower lvls

[ashen yarrow]

yes and now that it only makes 2-4m gp/h barely no one kills them

[meager flame]

its always like that though with the wild and jagex when it comes to this stuff

wilderness bosses aren't allowed to actually do anything because they're praying for the day one guy tries to anti pk and they drop crazy loot to bait you out there

wilderness agility makes it rain random junk once again just praying you'll come do this content

same with the thieving lol

absolutely bankrupt as far as actual game design but they're hoping they can just pour on enough rewards that you do it anyways

[ashen yarrow]

basically jagex cannot win regardlesss of what they choose. removing rewards means no one does the content, its called bad and dead. adding rewards so players do the content, it is bad but not dead or bad and has bots and players.

Same goes for pvm too

[meager flame]

yeah but when it comes to their pvm updates they put in tons more effort and go to some length trying to make things make sense

like they hunt down uniques that fit and have a place and come up with rates to hopefully help them maintain value and so on

as soon as they get to pvp content they're like yeah um

level 15s should be able to do this and it should just drop 4m/hr in raw materials or just alchs

and they just lmao

stop there like its a masterpiece

they would probably fire a jmod if they tried to release updates like that and it wasn't for pvp

[ashen yarrow]

colosseum with 6m gp/h wave 1 clears

[meager flame]

yeah and they fixed that quick early on because they

actually care

honestly that example kind of gives the whole thing away*

in pvm stuff like that is seen as a mistake and quickly changed but when it comes to pvp content its like

the go to move

[ashen yarrow]

zombie pirates took 2 months to get 70% drop reduction without diary, colosseum took 2 weeks for wave 1 splinters to be reduced by 20%

[austere mulch]

Wave 1 Colo has always been a problem, idk why they even give guaranteed splinters for wave 1 in the first place

But’s its also now like 1m/hr lol

[meager flame]

the big difference is that all pvp content especially for the wild is like that when it comes to stuff that has rewards

[austere mulch]

Damage has been done for quite some time

[meager flame]

still today in the game

rev drop tables are still dumb

the prayer training method is still so broken theres no reason to do anything else

agility still prints stuff for no reason

thieving is still just free loot

etc

[ashen yarrow]

so they should just reduce all wilderness drops to stop anyone from going there?

[icy relic]

Yes

[meager flame]

no they should actually try to design good content in the first place

instead of just printing absolute trash forever and always

[austere mulch]

They should reduced wildy drops for content that doesn’t have high enough requirements to justify it yeah

[icy relic]

There is no such thing as good wildy content

[ashen yarrow]

but in osrs content will always be bad if it doesnt profit or give rare drop

[austere mulch]

And they should also add more higher requirement content to the wildy

Both are equally true

[meager flame]

nobody said it cant profit or have good drops

it should just be sane

they just don't give 10% of the effort to get that far

[austere mulch]

You straight up can’t in good faith look at revs drops, content, and accessibility and say at any point since release, they’ve been in a reasonable state

[ashen yarrow]

so it needs to be end game difficulty without being able to 3 item

[meager flame]

we're generally expected to actually earn our good methods and drops everywhere in the game

until it comes to the wild

[austere mulch]

There should be genuine end game wildy pvm content, yeah

Half of the problem is the community voting

[icy relic]

You aren't even expected to earn your supplies to do wildy content

[austere mulch]

And more quests in the wildy

[icy relic]

Jagex made PvP its only siloed ecosystem to get more people to participate

[meager flame]

i just think its crazy because ultimately

[icy relic]

At the end of the day nobody wants to do it but they can't kill it off because there's still a remaining PvP community

[meager flame]

jagex makes all of the stuff that works for pvm and sees the population grow and success for their studio

and somehow then decides they shouldn't apply that to pvp

and should double down on the same stuff thats been slaughtering it for the past 13 years

[icy relic]

It doesn't work the same

PvP content inherently becomes less worthwhile the better PvMing is

Why gamble your bank when you can make consistent money

[meager flame]

they just dont hold it to the same standard as the rest of the game

and it shows

[ashen yarrow]

end game difficulty with item risk guaranteed is just so pkers can make more profit hunting the pvmers who use supplies in the hard content inside wilderness. this isnt pvp update it is pvm update

[icy relic]

They can't

[meager flame]

i mean they can

it doesn't have to work exactly the same but they can absolutely actually take time to design and polish something intended to be good for the game

they've even done it occasionally like bh

[austere mulch]

I mean they’re also just scared shitless to put actual content in the wildy 😭😭

[icy relic]

People don't want PvP content, they just want it to be saved in the abstract but Jagex can't do a single thing to attract PvMers without breaking the loot tables

[meager flame]

its just most of their updates are total slop

[icy relic]

It's high risk low reward to put time into PvP content

[meager flame]

like imagine in pvm we just had a year of qol fixes and they released the cow boss no hard mode

thats what happens to people who like pvp

[kindred crescent]

do people really like the unlockable region crap in leagues, I really wish they would stop doing it, all regions should be unlockable with no limit

[austere mulch]

A end game boss, similar to doom in concept, where you take zero damage when done perfectly, would work for an end game pvm encounter in the wildy bc then you aren’t using supplies for both the pker and the boss, it’s just for the pker

And if they show up, they too get hit by the boss

[icy relic]

Yes region locking adds variety and challenges you to play alternate pathways

And also reduces burnout

[austere mulch]

But if you’re putting content that has chip or unavoidable damage, that’s just an automatic no

[meager flame]

i think the problem with that is that most people just wouldn't actually have fun

you'd just be developing more of the content that makes everyone hate the wilderness to begin with

[austere mulch]

It wouldn’t be for most people anyways, so personally don’t find that to be a problem

[meager flame]

its just interesting because realistically they should be trying to figure out how to get people who primarily want to pvp

to come out there and do something before they run into each other

[ashen yarrow]

yes that is why people are saying lms is dead after they announced tradable rewards will be moved away from it. people who do not pk for fun have no reason to go there

[meager flame]

thats actually fun/quality content

but instead they kind of settle for luring people who dont even want the pvp in the first place

and everything immediately goes nuclear with nobody being happy

[ashen yarrow]

but pkers themselves want people to be there so they can get profit from killing them

[icy relic]

People don't want fair fights

[meager flame]

ya thats something they need to figure out

[ashen yarrow]

like there are places where pkers can fight other pkers but those places always have basically no one in them

[meager flame]

why dont people like to pvp

like lol

they've spent so long trying to figure out how to create people to hit that dont hit you back

instead of asking why do people not actually have fun pvping

and what can we do about that

[icy relic]

Because you lose all your gear and there's no progression

[meager flame]

those are both really easy to fix

[icy relic]

And it's not that fun for most people

[meager flame]

they even made the content already just not the rewards

[icy relic]

Due to being heavily RNG

And so the learning curve payout is not there if every fight feels like a coinflip

[ashen yarrow]

pking itself went from fun activity to moneymaker, so people cannot really go back to the fun part anymore

[meager flame]

they have a pvp arena and an elo system all they'd have to do is create gear progression to be used while playing

[icy relic]

Nobody wants an elo system

Because they don't want fair fights

[meager flame]

thats the progression

get better we give you cool stuff

[icy relic]

Do you not see the fundamental contradiction

You can't force people to find PvP fun

[meager flame]

yeah but you said they dont want fair fights because of progression and losing gear

that solves both

thats also how it works in any sane game that uses a system like that

[winged mantle]

Surely they fix the bot problem right??

Changes game around bot problem

[meager flame]

but jagex released the whole thing without the rewards to make it actually run

which is funny

but also insane

[ashen yarrow]

yeah rewards failed pvp community vote by 5%

[tacit pendant]

I think a lot of them would pass woth current threshold lol

The bandos orn was god awful though

[meager flame]

they just didnt sell it right

idk why either

[tacit pendant]

For sure

[meager flame]

they had the chance to make it cool but then just didn't even try

[tacit pendant]

Knowing what we know now though, it was always gonna be a shitshow. The matchmaking is horribly buggy

They didnt try is what it boils down to

[meager flame]

yeah they just failed that update

in reality that's probably the worst osrs update to date

[tacit pendant]

Its up there

One of the many forestry updates has to make top 10

[meager flame]

and theres some other crazy bad stuff like forestry lol

[tacit pendant]

Nmz pretty awful, crab is infinitly better mmo design

[meager flame]

but nothing hits like that pvp arena where they worked on it and then said you know what fuck it nvm

and released it anyways

partially broken no rewards and no players lmao

and left

bc usually with bad updates you can find the updates that then fix them

[tacit pendant]

Yup love to see em go back for an honest try on it

[meager flame]

but they just abandoned the arena for some reason

[ashen yarrow]

pvp arena ornament kits basically failed because players did not want tradable rewards there because it would bring bots. Then failed again because people couldnt just buy the cosmetic because they become untradable

the different pvp armours failed in restricted "pvp" vote

[meager flame]

They kinda failed that concept outright because in a system like that

You’d reward the people who play and do well with untradable cosmetics

Not stuff to sell so nobody cares about it

They’re only impressive if they take skill to get

[tacit pendant]

Actual pvp gear probably shouldnt be separate and simarly the way we control our characters should be as similar as possible

Gear should come from monsters. You should be able to somewhat transfer at least muscle memory from pvm to pvp

[silk thicket]

The entire arena reward poll failed bcos ppl spite voted duel arena removal tbh

[tacit pendant]

It was a lot of reasons that all added up

[ashen yarrow]

but i do think they should have just done opinion poll potential reward cosmetic designs and put them in anyway without poll. they just really couldnt repoll the same ornament kits 3rd time

[tacit pendant]

The orn kits looking like shit didnt help. People dont like pvp exclusive gear. I do think the community in 2026 is mich more receptive to untradeables in general

From orn kits being clue rewards to now where a lot of players only want an orn kit to be a flex for hard mode content

[hollow pumice]

orn kits need to be standardized away from what the losers want

[ashen yarrow]

2 different groups would vote no because they are untradable. people who want to be able to have every cosmetic they like and people who want to profit from doing the content

[hollow pumice]

the death fee thing is the catalyst for all evil really

[ashen yarrow]

like i wouldnt call it out of spite if someone thinks they should be allowed to have access to cosmetics without doing content they like

[silk thicket]

R we supposed to feedback here or dev blogs🤣

If here then I can move it

[ashen yarrow]

dev blogs would probably easier reach jmods with feedback, this channel more for discussing it in general. Sometimes messages here might get lost easier

[merry verge]

Best to leave specific update feedback in the dedicated dev-blogs if they have one

as they didn't add a dev-blog for the LMS and Emir's Arena gear updates, I will say it here:

• Jagex, you forgot about Antler Guard? This should surely at least be available as possible loot from chests in 1def pure load-outs in LMS and in Emir's Arena load-out, no?

[chrome lantern]

Yeah region locking sucks. I don’t think you should just start with everything but you should be able to unlock everything at the top end

[kindred crescent]

yep

no limits on region unlocking

[chrome lantern]

Shattered relics/leagues 3 actually had a really good system but they didn’t refine it enough and gave up on it too early

Gradual unlocking skills and content, but it should’ve been like rune to dragon tier that you unlocked everything, not like 25% of the way into the league

Then make the relic sets actually have the ability for presets

A better interface

And viola

[merry verge]

Why wasn't the new foods added to LMS and Emir's arena btw? Now that they are available in Wildy and PvP worlds etc., it's surely time to add them too?

[mortal moss]

Some other feedback about the LMS update:

Locking the MSB scroll behind RNG drops from monsters in one of the most active parts of the wildy feels bad. The imbued MSB is just a better version of the MSB. It’s a straight upgrade that is a solid early-mid game option. It’s not a weapon that’s only useful in PvP. I don’t like the idea of making it so much harder for ironmen to get, or forcing people to go into the wildy for it.

[hollow pumice]

honestly i think it's fine

better even

Wildy slayer is the best slayer xp in the game by far, getting people in to see how not scary it is in pursuit of a drop is a good idea

slayer cave is one of the least active areas

it's no black salamanders but escaping is free

[winged hound]

msb scroll will take you 20 minutes of killing hellhounds or whatever in the wilderness, the real killer that will cause an ironman riot are the items they plan to move to bounty hunter LMAO

0.1% of ironmen will be able to obtain a 50% spec granite maul for all their speed CA's

[tacit wharf]

?

[winged hound]

they're making the granite maul handle a bounty hunter only item, a non-safe pvp minigame where the skill threshold is miles beyond that of lms

same for swift blade if anyone actually uses that

[tacit wharf]

oh no i understand that

i ? wth yr saying

[winged hound]

ok well in that case I ? your ?

elaborate what you can't grasp or take issue with and I'm sure we can have a wonderful and mutually beneficial conversation about it

[tacit wharf]

aint no1 buying a gmaul handle for spd ca's

most irons dont buy a msb scroll

[winged hound]

got mine with one so that's one

but in short, all of these items will be a major hurdle and item & resource sink for ironmen to obtain legitimately

and to add to that, boosting is a bannable offense in BH

[tacit wharf]

got it, no iron is buying those items except to finish the clogs in lms

[winged hound]

I have them 😎

[glass basalt]

They are planning to remove the collection logs for those items
So cloggers like me that bought things like the guthixian icon and resold it to get some points back are just getting screwed over?

[winged hound]

funnier yet that it probably won't adjust the trophy item thresholds and some people are going to lose the grandmaster staff thing by losing the logs on items they actually grinded out and have nothing in compensation lol

[glass basalt]

Atleast leave untradable versions of the items in lms for the clogs

[steep blade]

Allow Infernal Tools' 'burn' effect on the Infernal Pickaxe, Infernal Harpoon and Infernal Axe to be toggled off freely.

It would be nice if this toggle was also added to crystal tools.

[round lintel]

its so sus everyone in LMS knows how to tick perfect dd under but when you are at distance they feel like avg players barely keeping up unless they 1t every att which is also sus

idk bout this

I know im bad but this is so sus everyone doing this

[zinc galleon]

Is it bad to have stuff locked behind pvp? There are things locked behind bossing and skilling - what’s the difference?

Like i’m “forced to boss” if i want an ancient scepter or upgraded herb sack

[silk thicket]

It’s an easy rhythm -> click attk click under

1ticking attacks isn’t sus either

[languid ravine]

generally i prefer unlocks to be more "horizontal" alternatives rather than upgrades

cos i dont like pvp games where u have to do a whole laundry list of things just to be viable

[round lintel]

Idk maybe im more poo than I give credit myself but go from cbow tank to staff ahrims to 1t a barrage at the same time (talking about doing on t4 to have no delays on t5)

Feels sus to me.

Again maybe is thw 140 ping in UK w for me

Or maybe im too shi to pray

[silk thicket]

Nah it’s not sus u just haven’t fought enough demons

[silk thicket]

Prayer is guessing anyway dw about it

Rule of thumb is guess until u notice they 2tick a lot

[round lintel]

Look up my rank in hs "Shad0wbanned" I know im shi at pvp (I got carphial tunnel from thieving back in 2017) so my clicks are waaay innacurate but never had an LMS game where I win a fight and the next person feels like is the same I was fighting

Is like is some dude in 10 different accts

I made 78 points in like 3-4 hrs in left

Can say I had more rages than fun

But thats how rng works since I got shadowbanned xd

[silk thicket]

Ye but remember after the first fight the people who are left are on average gna be better than the people who died

So it’s unsurprising

[round lintel]

Will have to give a try once in US w

I do love the Nox hally tbh

And the venom isnt a problem

You just gotta know when to sip your sanfew

Only thing id probably change is get 2 sanfews instead of 1 and 1

And make it more interactive with your current gear to not get repeated items from chest

Another thing I dont like is the timer to att someone i keep spamming someone and says its under attack and they usually get the upper hand first freeze so annoying

[silk thicket]

Here’s short clip of 1ticking, u can use plugin I had on to practice ur timing

[silk thicket]

It’s easily defended against

Pop into #pvp-discussion if u want

We help u

[round lintel]

I also think i play in a big client screen that I have to navigate longer so I usually misclick alot on my opponent

[silk thicket]

Yh u gotta optimise

Like how am rotating my screen so opp is beside inv and rly big

Less misclicks

When I started my opponent was like peanut sized and on other side of screen

Unplayable

Games hard make it easy on urself

[ruby loom]

did the laptop misfire 🙂

[mortal moss]

Locked behind PvP isn’t the problem, the MSBi was locked behind LMS before. My issue is that they’re taking a quick LMS grind, because the scroll only cost 5 points, and making the only way to get it a 1/400+ RNG grind that requires you going into camping the wildy slayer cave. It’s too much for the MSBi’s place in gear progression, imo.

[zinc galleon]

they are moving it to BH as well, so maybe it'll be simple there too, but yeah maybe you got a pint

[mortal moss]

I don’t think they are moving it to BH. The blog has some formatting issues with the list, but it says “Remove the following items from the shop outright:”, then lists some of the buyable non cosmetic items and the scrolls.

[glass basalt]

not that the inbue was that much of a upgrade all things considered...but hcim were able to get them with 0 risk
at bh or from wildy slayer you go from 0 risk to allot of risk real quick
would be unfair to all the new hcim out there

oh and the gmaul upgrade too
though it has niche uses

[still sundial]

they could just let Justine imbue magic shortbows for the same LMS points. they cannot be reverted to get magic imbue scroll back anyway and are untradeable, no downside to this

[glass basalt]

I am all aboard the lms store sells untradable stuff train to begin with

[still sundial]

same, I think it's the best approach without affecting anyone negatively

except bots of course

[mortal moss]

That’d be a great solution. And I’m not as worried about the Gmaul since its full form only has very niche non-PvP use cases. My issue with the MSBi is that it is a straight upgrade to the MSB everywhere, and has a good place in gear progression.

[ashen yarrow]

they are already catering to irons by keeping the cheap ge value ironman supplies in there so i dont really see any difference in having more stuff there. I think they wanted to make wilderness slayer more valuable method for all accounts by removing those drops from lms though

[mortal moss]

If the goal was to revitalize the wilderness it shouldn’t be an unpolled change then, that’s not an integrity change.

[still sundial]

the scroll costs 37K, I am not sure how much that really contributes ot making wilderness slayer valuable

[winged mantle]

wildy gets spite voted too much

[glass basalt]

I posted the suggestion to make it untradable from the lms shop in game suggestions :)
lets hope the gmods end up liking the idea too

yeah the gmaul has niche uses like I said, it helps with some ca's and its crazy for NZ....but NZ is pretty much dead content soo yeah

[still sundial]

I guess it'd get more expensive after the removal from the shop

[winged mantle]

polls don't work for the wilderness

[glass basalt]

on a slightly different note, what would you say about having those suplies removed from lms?

[winged mantle]

also another zbuffer glitch? the shadow of some superiours go wild when rotating the camera

[restive storm]

Yeah you can’t poll anything for the Wildy these days sadly lol

[winged mantle]

best thing is right now saying what the jmods want to do then having discussion threads before they go live

[ashen yarrow]

i do not think lms being meta place to get gp from rune arrows on ironman should be a thing at all

[glass basalt]

pkers and everyone else are way to split
if we want wildy polls to work we would need some big changes...

[still sundial]

you could use same approach for granite maul tbh

The ornate maul handle is an add-on that can be used to enhance the granite maul by reducing its special attack cost from 60% to 50%. This process can be reverted at any time, but the handle will be destroyed in doing so.
could upgrade your gmauls for points, if you reverse you don't get the handle back

[glass basalt]

I fully agree with you, I completely ignored LMS (except for clogs) myself for that reason

[mortal moss]

What notable wildy polls have failed recently? The only things that come to mind are Wrathmaw and that alchemy thing.

[winged mantle]

many

almost every wildy poll

[mortal moss]

Can you name them please? I don’t remember them.

[glass basalt]

Wrathmaw rightfully failed though 😶

correct me if I am wrong, but there havent been to many notable wildy polls as of late due to how many of them were failing horribly

[winged mantle]

to the point where there just aren't wildy updates

[glass basalt]

^that

[winged mantle]

why would jmods spend dev time on updates the community "doesn't" want

[south void]

I'm still all for allowing the new polling feedback system to be aimed towards accounts that pk/pvp. Idk what modifier they could add to narrow the pk/pvp community answering on the polls to get feels out for changes but they did it for sailing and I still believe it should be applicable for the pk/pvp to have their voices heard pre-changes. (Through the in game system not just socials.)

[still sundial]

I dont even think its wildy updates that fail polls, its more so things that are for pures, like chivalrly & optional quest XP

[ashen yarrow]

i dont think there should be any modifier for pking accounts, i do think there should be limited access based on accounts who interact with the content.

[glass basalt]

again, I am a hcim that dislikes pvp
but even I can see that pkers are getting screwed over
I have an idea that could fix it but if polled it would fail horrendously

[still sundial]

oh and I guess VLS in wilderness

[ashen yarrow]

polls that had wilderness player kill requirements to vote also failed because certain pvp account builds would ahve gotten "buff"

[south void]

Narrowing down specific ideas instead of these huge blocks of changes and trying to figure out from socials what parts were unwanted seems a better way to go about it on feedback polls in my opinion.

[glass basalt]

problem with aiming it like that it would screw over the wildy pvm lads allot, we would need changes to how beneficial the wildy is to whoever decides to add extra risk

[winged mantle]

last major wildy poll was the boss rework in 2022

[south void]

I'm not talking about the end result yes/no polling system I'm speaking about the feedback polls they should run asking 5-6 different questions or options before the yea/no polls and getting actual feedback in game from accounts that interact with that gameplay.

[glass basalt]

ahh fair enough mb

[south void]

We had how many questions in this feedback poll about a dang prep station, they can ask just as many questions about any pvp changes feedback lol

[mortal moss]

No. Wrathmaw was September of 2024, and in March of 2024 they also polled all the zombie pirate stuff.

[winged mantle]

2023 - Bounty Hunter Rewards Poll
2024 - Undead Pirates Rewards & More

[ashen yarrow]

people would complain that they do not get a say in it, like we had people complaining they couldnt get say in sailing opinion poll parts when they had never interacted with those things

[winged mantle]

to add - where are the wilderness updates

neglected

[south void]

That's the point though.

[glass basalt]

Wrathmaw (as it was presented) was...just a really bad pitch
not worth mentioning it as a wildy pol

[south void]

You wouldn't ask a bank teller to fix your pipes unless they've had previous experience

[winged mantle]

the amount of proposed content for wildy is just not there. the pvp community has been asking for fixes since forever

[mortal moss]

Where are the failed polls, though? You said they couldn’t poll the wildy because it would be voted down. Other than Wrathmaw, everything you mentioned pretty much passed, with a few minor things failing.

[ashen yarrow]

wrathmaw was basically a breach from dmm but even less people would get rewards and only 1 mob to attack

[winged mantle]

things don't get polled as much anymore if it won't pass

aka the spite votes

[mortal moss]

Do you have any proof of that, or are you just speculating?

[winged mantle]

are you playing dumb

[glass basalt]

if the bank teller lives in your house they might have preferences though

like a UIM might not do any kind of pvp, but they would be against the VLS being used on them whilst doing clues in the wildy since the VLS just hits way to hard

bad example but, point stands

[winged mantle]

highly advise to do some research

[ashen yarrow]

sure there are some people spite voting but the people saying they dont want to get negatively impacted by the change do not count as spite voting

[winged mantle]

if you don't know how much wildy has been pushed down to the pits there's nothing i can say to convince you

[mortal moss]

Cool, where should I research people spite voting down polls? Do you have any evidence I can look at? Because from what I know, it’s very rare for polls to fail nowadays.

[winged mantle]

look at the poll results

from the history

[mortal moss]

Ok, point me to failed polls.

Like I asked originally.

[ashen yarrow]

Like if they add wilderness weapon that hits 100+, that is going to affect everyone inside wilderness not just pkers

[winged mantle]

do some research and learn

[glass basalt]

go to an average poll from 2018 or so
see how many more pvp polls there were and their results

and I have been in plenty of discord comunities where if a pvp poll comes out they ask everyone to vote no to give a middle finger to the pvpers

[winged mantle]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Poll:Wilderness_Rejuvenation_II:_Revenant_Caves even just this one

[glass basalt]

Another way to do this research is to experience it yourself, you will see just how much needs fixing but wont get fixed, how much do you pk nick?

[winged mantle]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Poll:Wilderness_Rejuvenation_II

[mortal moss]

The 2024 zombie pirates poll you pointed out passed. The bounty hunter rewards poll passed. The wilderness boss rework passed. Surge potions passed.

[winged mantle]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Poll:Revenant_Cave_Rewards:_Revisited_%26_Content_Changes_Poll

[winged mantle]

that was the most recent

2 years sincec wildy updates

to prove a point

there are no new wildy updates

[glass basalt]

surge potions can be used in pvm, especially in speed ca's

[mortal moss]

Why should we not look to the most recent updates when trying to figure out how the current playerbase votes? Why are you going back nearly 10 years?

[glass basalt]

because back then pvp polls came out waaay more often, but since they kept getting spite voted that stopped

[slow acorn]

Wilderness as a concept just isn't enticing anymore.
Pvmers want to pvm and don't want to pvp, pvpers want to pvp and don't care about pvm

[glass basalt]

there are ways to solve this though

[winged mantle]

you need to look to history to see the present and future

[mortal moss]

But they’re not getting spite voted now. I don’t think the argument that ‘They were voted down ten years ago out of spite, so you can’t poll them now, even though recent wildy polls aren’t getting spite voted’ makes much sense at all.

[winged mantle]

because they stopped adding anything for the wildy

[mortal moss]

Did they stop,adding stuff to the wildy two years ago when they did zombie pirates?

[glass basalt]

they are getting spite voted, only reason some pass is either because of how little they do or because they benefit people that dont pk

[mortal moss]

Because the same argument you’re making now would have been in place two years ago.

[glass basalt]

zombie pirates are for new low lvl ironmen to grab some good loot early on, not for pkers

it adds some "content" for low lvl pkers thats it

[winged mantle]

pkers haven't gotten anything for years

[glass basalt]

it doesnt make the wildy enticing so to say

[restive storm]

This isn’t even true though, I’m a pvper and have 2 maxed accounts inferno, and like a reasonable number of boss I’ve

[mortal moss]

And the wildy boss rework is the same?

[restive storm]

Kc* but I do pvm to get items I don’t just spam it to make money

[glass basalt]

if memory serves that was just an update evryone agreed with so the spite voters got outvoted
the bosses being inside caves benefits both pvmers and clue doers whilst hindering pvpers

[mortal moss]

It just seems odd to me to claim that things will get spite voted when the most recent PKing and Wildy updates weren’t. BH wasn’t, zombie pirates weren’t, wildy boss reworks weren’t. I get your point about neglect, that’s true, but I don’t see how you can say wildy content is unpollable when recent data shows otherwise.

And by weren’t, I mean didn’t fail because of it, not that it didn’t happen.

[winged mantle]

find any recent wildy polls for pkers

[glass basalt]

bh= get the pkers out of the wildy away from pvmers
izombie pirates = benefits only low lvl irons
wildy boss reworks made it more safe for pvmers

all of this is just anti pvp stuff

[restive storm]

wrathmaw (albeit this one deserved it) and the recent multi revs gamejam idea both have no chance of even making it to polls

cuz the outcry is so bad, so they just dont even bother to try

[winged mantle]

ask the pvpers - what was their favourite recent wilderness pvp poll that passed

[ashen yarrow]

things get voted no on if it makes things harder for pvmers. Like same reason collecting log hunters and ironman do not want lms shop changes

[winged mantle]

idm the changes

[restive storm]

over the last 5 years, the only actual polled update that i can think of thats actually been beneficial to pkers in any way was wildy agility... and they literally added a 1x1 tile that shoots out loot at an existing course

so the content itself is pretty lame still lol

[mortal moss]

So the vodiwaker was anti-PvP? Heavily incentivizing people to go and kill the PvP bosses was anti-PvP?

[winged mantle]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1465348114033541183 feel free to ask more pvp questions to actual pvpers @mortal moss

[winged mantle]

sounds about right

[winged mantle]

irons complain about it being in the wilderness all the time

voted in because it benifits pvm

if it was just a pvp item it would have failed

[glass basalt]

pvmers wanted the voidvaker themselves 🤣
if it was wildy only it would never have passed

[ashen yarrow]

like the issue with wildereness is that it is not just pkers interacting with it. pvp minigames can basically ignore most of the people since limited interaction

[restive storm]

voidwaker (the item) is a heavily pvp centric weapon and good for the game. How they implemented it via WBR was terrible, multi bosses are dead content cuz the escape caves suck so bad, and singles are essentially 0 risk bot wasteland lol

[mortal moss]

So what I’m getting is that wildy isn’t unpolled at all, they just need to poll it in a way that appeals to players broadly. Got it.

[restive storm]

im saying the way its been updated in the past HAS been polled... which is why it sucks now

[glass basalt]

they need to poll it in a way thats anti-fun for pvpers, easy for pvmers and usable by those that dont pvp

thats basically saying they need to poll pk things that pkers cant use

[restive storm]

and id prefer they integrity update it

[glass basalt]

oop, bae is home
later everyone :)

[mortal moss]

Sorry, didn’t realize voidwaker or wildy bosses was pk things PKers can’t use, my mistake.

[restive storm]

like i said the vw, the item, is good. Wildy bosses are horrible lol

if youve ever tried pking at multi wildy bosses you'd know that

[ashen yarrow]

escape caves in general bad design for both parties, singles versions of wildy bosses annoying for pkers since it is easy to escape if paying attention

[mortal moss]

Genuine question, is it better than old wildy bosses? Because from what I remember those weren’t very active at all. Not sure if the greater population of current wildy bosses makes up for the easier escapes, though.

[restive storm]

guaranteed escape i think is an important distinction

[winged mantle]

new wildy bosses are great - the loot and uniques are bloated

[restive storm]

i feel like the old ones were by some miracle still more active, i know i at least pked out there from time to time

i never pk at the new wildy bosses cuz theyre so bad

and by them i mean the escape caves lol

[ashen yarrow]

alts outside of singles wilderness bosses make it almost impossible for pkers to get on player killing them but that is alt account issue

[restive storm]

yeah its a waste of time to try singles unless ur skull tricking or multi baiting other pkers or something

not to mention if you ever DO land a tb on someone it takes them one freeze then they just log out again lol

then youre back to hopping

[scarlet dawn]

Not entirely true, lets say there are quite a lot of people who want to hunt pvmers solely. Faster gp/h than pvming yourself. Once a pker appears instant log or tele.

[ashen yarrow]

if they moved singles bossess out of cave they could somewhat reduce alt account issue but there just isnt much room to put 3 bosses with lure ranges. If the bosses are not inside a closed area people could abuse their lure range

[restive storm]

idk if thats even a problem tho

like do we care if people spend 5 minutes luring 1 wildy boss to get 1 kc

when you can just kill it in like 1 minute anyway normally lol

[ashen yarrow]

people would do short lure to make it into a spot where they can be out of combat like the old versions

[restive storm]

yeah but like.... does that matter? lol

[scarlet dawn]

You know if roaming revs was brought to the table? Or was it dismissed I dont remember

[zinc galleon]

Dismissed back in 2019

When they were deciding how to change it

[restive storm]

dnt believe so, but without them like 50xing revs loot as it is rn i cant imagine thatd do anything to help lol

[scarlet dawn]

True, thought it would be just better than caves in the wildy

[restive storm]

naw revs i think is fine, just add a multi section that has better loot and call it a day

[restive storm]

yea idk man... i think multi actually might be totally bricked if that was their thinking for that too lol

if theyre worried about clans getting loot in multi then theres never gonna be any loot in multi period

[slow acorn]

Doesn't change the fact that pvmers don't really want to pvp and pvpers don't rlly care about mobs

[ashen yarrow]

being in wilderness for 10minutes just to ganged up by multiple revs in multi

[slow acorn]

Case in point, pvp worlds

[restive storm]

pvp worlds are totally dead wdym lol

[slow acorn]

Does anyone really use pvp worlds outside from GE 1v1, istanced areas where you effectively are in a pvp zone for less than a second and wilderness (which is already a pvp zone so it doesn't change anything)

[slow acorn]

Exactly

[ashen yarrow]

pvp world used to be more active but constant ragging at teleport spots drove pkers away from them

[restive storm]

right so clearly pvpers care abut mobs because they need noobs to farm the mobs to kill them, and then good pkers, in theory would kill the other pkers

But since the good pkers can no longer kill the noobie pkers it drops pker v pker activity super heavily

[ashen yarrow]

good old salamander accounts at varrock square to tag any pker waiting there

[slow acorn]

So it's not a pvp but more a "I want money but don't want to do pvm"

[restive storm]

well that second level is where the pvp really used to take place

but since they removed that its gone down hill drastically

[slow acorn]

If pvpers really want to just pvp, 1v1 at emir's arena/lms exist. If they want to risk loot, 1v1s in pvp world exist

Wilderness as a concept is just outdated, that's all I'm saying

[restive storm]

i dont think it is at all

they just broke the food chain

[ashen yarrow]

partly that, basically lower skill level pkers need pvmers who do not fight back to be there, the higher skill/risk pkers are then hunting both pvmers and lower skill pkers. Food chain just keep going up until you find the megatrons in absolute max

[restive storm]

so ofc now 99% of the ppl that die are just pvmers

dont get me wrong, good pvmers also are like never gonna die in modern day

so you basically just have to be really bad to die in singles atm

[slow acorn]

That would be the case if pkers didn't make specific pk pures to hunt lower level players

[restive storm]

pures exist in 2026? where they at

[slow acorn]

So new pkers get washed by people who have played this game for 10+ years and stop pking

[ashen yarrow]

there are pures who hunt low lvl rev accounts but the pures are also lower on food chain since med levels can attack them in higher wildy

[restive storm]

youre never gonna solve clueless noobs getting owned by someone who has 10 years of experience lol

its just not really a reasonable ask lol

same way i get washed tryina play any other game for the first time

[slow acorn]

You can also not expect new blood to come in if the learning curve might as well be the picture of a wall and experienced players make accou t specifically to hunt new players

[restive storm]

i mean if we're being honest that isnt an issue whatsoever in modern days

pures are hardly out there anymore lol

[slow acorn]

Not from my experience

[slow acorn]

And this goes back to my point:
Wilderness is just an outdated concept that isn't really enjoyed by the vast majority of the playerbase

[restive storm]

just my advice would then be progress ur account and level up, once you hit like 82 mage w/ blitz you should never have to worry about them again

[slow acorn]

So the best way for a new player to experience the wilderness is to get 82 mage with blitz and learn how to freezelog

[restive storm]

yeah

or just get kinda used to dying

[ashen yarrow]

for lower level ironman the escaping part is sometimes not worth if you end up in combat/teleblocked. mystic robes only fast to obtain mage accuracy but for mage weapon you are on water staff until trouver parchement change and you get ice scpetres from dt2

[slow acorn]

You understand how flawed that point is

[restive storm]

no because thats the only real way to deal with it, or just get used to it and know where to/where not to go

[slow acorn]

Or people just don't go to the wildy, which again, proves my point

[restive storm]

thats fine to stay out til you're really ready to go

think that makes a lot of sense

[slow acorn]

"Stay out of the wildy"
"Wildy is dead content no one goes there"

You can't choose both bud

[restive storm]

you gotta understand you're never really gonna have a great time out there on a level 60 with 30 def

its just not a thing thats gonna happen

yoiure in the very very early game

[ashen yarrow]

if you dont want to be involved in player vs player combat and risk dying then not going into wilderness is the call

[restive storm]

which the wildy is not kind to unless youre experienced

[ashen yarrow]

its like telling hcim to avoid tob if they dont want to risk dying

[zinc galleon]

Not necessarily, me and friends and others would be rcbing revs until players showed up and fight them instead. It’s like passive income while hanging out looking for fights, and revs didn’t drain resources.

[analog crow]

Do you care if wildy is dead?
Most people play this game as if wildy doesn’t exist.

[slow acorn]

Eh, I like the wildy but I see how foundamentally flawed it is nowadays

[restive storm]

i dont even see how its fundamentally flawed other than the pj timer stopping pker v pker interactions happening

like whoever you're dying to thats a pure, those are usually the kind of people im trying to hit, but nowadays i cant anymore so i kinda just quit

[analog crow]

I mean yeah the whole thing is dogwater

[dire flower]

It’s way to easy to stack specs and one shot people. Kinda of annoying

[restive storm]

maybe at like lvl 60/70? still feels not that easy on a main lol

[dire flower]

Like G-maul into Voidwaker is broken

[analog crow]

Eh, I doubt osrs PvP will ever be good

[restive storm]

maybe if youre getting hit in like salad robes?

otherwise gmauls hitting a 0 like 90% of the time lol

[dire flower]

Nah a pure will max hit you with 99 str

[restive storm]

oh yeah if youre 1 def then itll clap u for sure

but then u just pray melee

[tender harness]

because fun fact for most people once you finish diary wildy doesnt exist anymore
it exists as a way to trap irons into voidwaker grind / dpick
outside of that it effectively needs a rework that they refuse to give it

[dire flower]

Won’t save you. It’s happened to me many times

[velvet orchid]

Love when random pures attack my rune pure iron in the wildy, I just attack back and out dps them though protection prayers it’s a good laugh

[restive storm]

yeah pures are just useless these days

its sad

[analog crow]

Yeah I agree
What wildy needs is a complete wipe and a rebuild from the ground up

[tender harness]

literally what I said by rework

[ashen yarrow]

wilderness will never be something majority of players will interact with and that is fine. Same way majority of players will never step into raids

[velvet orchid]

Would have been even more useless if we gave them chivalry but people are so ignorant on the subject it’s sad

[analog crow]

Literally I agree champ

[velvet orchid]

Pures are fine if your fighting other pures or like low level bh but in the wildy it’s pretty grim

If deep at all

[restive storm]

problem is theres no pures anymore so that takes away 1/2 of the scenarios

[chrome lantern]

I literally went to get one yesterday in case I need it xd

[chrome lantern]

This would also be in line with allowing (mostly UIMs) to buy looting bags, and (mostly ironmen) to buy a single rune pouch

[chrome lantern]

The one problem with this is that they can still be pked into gp but I agree in concept. Idk if the pk value is higher than a gmaul costs nowadays

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I am fundamentally conceptually opposed to removing restrictions/requirements on things and ever nullifying or reverting xp which have been pretty much all the account catering things

(and VLS yeah)

[still sundial]

hmm, could that be solved by having to pay gp alongside LMS points to upgrade the gmaul?

[chrome lantern]

Probably!

[still sundial]

although I guess that starts to get a bit more tricky

to implement

[chrome lantern]

[[Granite maul]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Granite_maul

[chrome lantern]

It says it refunds 90% of the maul+handle ge value to the pker

So reasonably if it’s already determining that value on death it could be determined when upgrading

[brisk hill]

What’s unfortunate is most people just write wildy off as a pvm hunter playground.
In reality, clans still exist.
They fight daily, weekly.
True pvp enjoyers especially those who are crying out for multi updates don’t necessarily ONLY wanna hunt pvm noobs. We wanna FIGHT pvp NOOBS, & OTHER clans.
I’m sorry if you feel hunted as an Ironman, you’re apart of the food chain just as much as the nooby pker who doesn’t stand a chance against someone a little better than him.
Don’t write wildy off pls

Clanning though it may seem like a cesspool to some, is by far the best way to experience PvP in this game & the majority of people have misconceptions about what that means.

[restive storm]

agreed, thats why singles teams were fun too. It was that, but on a smaller scale where you could feasibly go out and have fun with 1-5 friends and just have a good time

we got so many people into pking back when that was a thing but now feels impossible

[brisk hill]

“PvP will never been good in osrs”
The droves of people who have left the game for p servers & those who are still holding onto a sliver of hope, will vehemently disagree

Those who only come back for dmm, will vehemently disagree

[restive storm]

im kinda torn - because pvp COULD be good again, but i somewhat agree with the take because I don't think jagex will ever do what it takes to actually make it good again

[brisk hill]

Fair point; if it was good they wouldn’t be leaving. Moreso the fact that they have gone elsewhere just gives a glimpse of what it could be.

[restive storm]

yea, the fact they come back for dmm, and then instantly disappear

i dont even think my friends claimed their dmm rewards (as i didnt either)

but for those ~2 weeks all the goons were back and hanging out in disc nightly, and no ones been there since

[languid ravine]

talking about "outdated concepts" while playing a 25 year old game is interesting

[zinc galleon]

What do you mean by outdated? It’s basically an extraction survival concept that is very popular even today - see arc raiders, rust, marathon…

[winged mantle]

It can. All it takes is continual effort and jmods listening to the right people and adding the right things. Gonna be very tricky to do

I want wildy revived and the pain points alleviated where the wildy feels right.

I think it starts with getting the people who hate the wildy/ never want to learn how to pk or learn anti pk out of it

[restive storm]

I mean they hate to hear it, but those people already dont need to go there lol

[winged mantle]

Make them 😅

Seriously

[restive storm]

and theyll gate keep literally ANY item from being put there because they feel "forced" to go get it

[winged mantle]

Give decent money makers and alternative items outside wildy

[restive storm]

its like the people freaking out yday from items going to BH from LMS, and its like im sorry bro, but if your goal is to complete the collection log, and you're suprised you gotta play every aspect the game idk what to tell you lol

[languid ravine]

its just a loud minority

[winged mantle]

Lms changes were a non issue

It shouldn't have even been a place for rewards

[restive storm]

yeah for sure is, but that loud minority gets 100x the service/consideration that the pking "loud minority" gets given to them at the same time

[languid ravine]

99% of ironmen acknowledge that ironman is not optimal for pvp and dont complain about it, 1% cry about it loudly

[winged mantle]

They are weak

I think to enter wildy you should have to risk 1m

That way you gotta be able to fight back

[carmine junco]

Why do you think anyone would go there

[winged mantle]

Why does anyone go in rn

[carmine junco]

If I had to risk 1m to so much as enter the area I'd never go

[winged mantle]

There's no risk currently

[carmine junco]

Clues, mainly

[winged mantle]

Remove wildy steps

[restive storm]

no

[winged mantle]

Or make wildy clues that lucrative you want to risk

[restive storm]

https://klipy.com/gifs/mujikcboro-seriymujik-1

[slow acorn]

it's almost as if those games evolved the concept and revolved the entire game around it instead of keeping that side of the game in the dust for decades

[restive storm]

people whine about this cuz theyre just bad at making sets to do their clues in

literally no issue whatsoever, if they took 1 hr to make a 20k risk set to do their clue theyd have no issue

but theyre just lazy lol

[winged mantle]

Nox hally oath top and bottom and you're set

[zinc galleon]

Ah ok, so not so much that the wilderness is outdated, more so ill-maintained?

[restive storm]

blowpipe/diary gear and u liiterally dont need to bank doing a clue ever lol

its been that way for like.... what 8 years?

[winged mantle]

Something like that

[restive storm]

imagine if they set up a clue time 1 hr in that 8 year time span

the amount of complaining they wouldnt need to do

[carmine junco]

I mean yeah, I just use bowfa and black dhide, it's not hard. I'm just saying it's the only reason I go to the wildy these days since nm everything else there is too annoying

[slow acorn]

no. Extraction shooters are revolved around that specific aspect, OSRS isn't

[restive storm]

i think thats the main rason why i hate the idea of removing them from the wildy so much, it isnt really making an important change, its just people want to be as lazy as possible and get the game made around them lol

[south void]

I just drop all clue steps I don't like, including wilderness or sailing steps. Try and force me to do it Jagex, you can't make me!

[meager flame]

i mean they really should

[restive storm]

hey thats fine by me man lol

[meager flame]

stuff like that is the completely irrelevant additions to the wild that just paint a hard target on the wild as something to never vote yes to anything for

[restive storm]

ive never seen an actual good reason for removing steps from wildy

[meager flame]

i just gave you one

[winged mantle]

They like the random whale clue hunter pk

[meager flame]

thats the random friction that causes people to shit on the wild

[restive storm]

that isnt an "ingame' reason though, thats just taking peoples delusion and giving it more weight than it should have lol

[meager flame]

like straight up if that didn't happen and those people weren't asked to go out there

they wouldn't have died

[carmine junco]

Besides it just being annoying, sure. If squint still played the game I'm sure he just would like to kill spade carriers

[meager flame]

and they wouldn't spite vote all the updates

thats how jagex built an army of people to make sure pvp does not get updates

[restive storm]

i usually couldnt be bothered if they were 3 item or less, anymore than that yeah im def checking if u brought ur book

[restive storm]

theres no world in which clues getting removed from wildy changes spite voting tho lol

[meager flame]

its one step

[winged mantle]

Would the book count now with the untradable change soon?

[restive storm]

people have said the same thing for pj timer, skull prevention, etc

its all just made it worse and worse

[south void]

Before I decided against doing clues in the wild, my setup was black dhide, mage/keep 1 item/augury protection on quick prayers, a spade, clue box, clue, and half karam/half sharks while prepotting antivenom, stamina restore, and a seed pod out.

[meager flame]

its not even a delusion jagex put them out there doing a few things they didn't like so they naturally said

[ashen yarrow]

pkers kill every random clue person because there is 1/500 chance they brought their cash stack or all runes/teleport with them

[meager flame]

alright how about no more updates

[languid ravine]

whats stopping a billion dollar company from having developers dedicated to each aspect of the game besides incompetency and greed?

[meager flame]

and we're here now

[restive storm]

worth it for taking 2-3 seconds of the time

cuz sometiimes you get like a 100mer

[zinc galleon]

So what would make it not “outdated”?

[restive storm]

i mean thats already what we have lol

[meager flame]

yeah and this is why

[slow acorn]

because not every game can use every mechanic of every other game

it's game design 101

[winged mantle]

Does the trover parchment change affect the scroll book?

[restive storm]

that isnt why at all lol

[meager flame]

stuff like wilderness clue steps or the chaos altar being too good to not experience and so on

its just baiting people into a situation they didnt want to be in

they remember that

and then say nope no more

[languid ravine]

sure u can, u just make separate minigames, areas, worlds and gamemodes to facilitate them

[slow acorn]

should we add a dating sim in CS2 with buffs on your ch depending on the social links you have with your teammates?

[ashen yarrow]

like i usually dont get attacked if im wearing full elite diary gear in wilderness, if im naked im almost always dead if pker sees me

[winged mantle]

When i die in clue gear i say "enjoy the runes"

[south void]

I wear all the diary gear too, haha

It's like a giant beacon of "not worth the time to pk me"

[restive storm]

so basically, there cant be any incentive whatsoever to go to the wild, so why would anyone go there in the world you're trying to create in this scenario lol

[meager flame]

i dont even think people realize how petty the wilderness thing really is from players lol

[carmine junco]

I don't even bother with wildy altar now that bone shards exist. Sure they're worse because wildy altar is required to be the best thing in the game forever, but it's so much less tedious to do, and I don't even have to be worried about being murdered.

[meager flame]

basically as long as jagex is luring people out there that don't really like it they'll just take the angle that its all dogshit and vote no because they don't actually want to experience the content but dont have the self control to give up something that enticing to them

[restive storm]

yea i did my 99 prayer in my POH cuz i just cba doing wildy altar

[languid ravine]

cs2 has modding capabilities, source engine is actually probably the very best at this. so yea u could if u wanted

[restive storm]

right but you're not answering my question. If you remove ALL incentive, which is what people want to do, to go to the wildy, why would ANYBODY go there

[meager flame]

so instead of saying oh i dont like the wild and dropping clue step

they'll go do it die lose nothing but like 30 seconds

freak out

and vote no forever

its really like that

[ashen yarrow]

like they want people to be anti-pking but with no rewards outside killing pkers, issue comes from no rewards meaning no pvmers go there so pkers also dont go there. If you know there is small chance to find someone on purpose anti-pking then only strong pkers or teams will go there rarely, which again makes it less likely to someone be anti-pking there

[restive storm]

right and those peoples votes should just be ignored lol

[winged mantle]

Remove the bad incentives that have been added. Rework healthy incentives for people that want to be there and can fight

[languid ravine]

ur supposed to die in the wilderness

[restive storm]

right but you're talking in theory, what does that actually mean

like what item/resource/incentive are we allowed to put there

[meager flame]

i mean you can tell its crazy because they get mad at the chaos altar too

[winged mantle]

I don't know but want to find out

[meager flame]

but if you can do math and bother to check

[winged mantle]

I think that's the right focus

[slow acorn]

that has literally nothing to do with the point

[meager flame]

you'll see the chaos altar is fucking cracked like

[south void]

Wildy shields have sidegrades and upgrades outside wilderness

Wildy weapons other than voidwaker are for wilderness buffs

Voidwaker has a close little bro the arkan blade now outside wilderness

Aside from MA2 Cape, Diary Steps, or Clues I don't feel the need to be in wilderness on my ironman accounts anymore unless I wanted to put on all diary gear+a salve amulet and a dscimmy to do zombie pirates for the alchables.

[meager flame]

you'd have to die immediately on half your trips to actually lose

[restive storm]

cuz currently it isnt xp (ehp wont allow it), unique items (irons wont allow it), gp (bots wont allow it)

[languid ravine]

the entire point is that its an unsafe unpredictable place

[restive storm]

so whats left lol

[winged mantle]

Chaos alter shouldn't exist

[meager flame]

so like

you should happily just go get killed up there once in awhile