game-update

[meager flame]

they do all of that plus more to logout

or at least the people i watched trying it were

[true talon]

in colo you cant logout

your limited by 6 hours and food

[meager flame]

ya ik

[wet smelt]

It bothers me how the poll on the fish is either pure xp or pure reward

Why can’t new content have ok xp and good reward

[true talon]

I think the reward should be a 100k+ an hour fishing method

[meager flame]

i think they're just stuck because they got caught having to make the fish but now have to decide asap what it will do lol

[true talon]

doesnt have to produce anything, just be active fishing

[wet smelt]

It’s just annoying that most new skilling content is either a slog to get anything (mixology) or gives peanuts in xp

Makes sense that a high level task would give high experience and high reward

[meager flame]

also tbh i still think woox might be the goat

[wet smelt]

It’s high level for a reason

[meager flame]

or at least could be if he just played the game

you see people do a lot of really crazy stuff now but im not sure how good they really are at figuring something new out

[wet smelt]

People got Yama butterfly in like 7 hours

[meager flame]

dude was awfully close when he made them hotfix colo despite just not playing osrs

and popping in for the update lol

[wet smelt]

You don’t need to be a meme name to be ok at a game

[mint stratus]

What if leechfins gave a lifesteal effect, keeping in theme of morytania and the original melee idea. One step further and incentivize harder hitting weapons to add weapon/healing diversity?

Something like.

On eat, gain 10 hp.
Your next successful hit will heal you for half its damage dealt or 1/4th of your max hit, whichever is higher. (Vague numbers. Just wanted to pitch the idea)

[meager flame]

thats honestly probably just too good

[mint stratus]

Numbers tweaking yeah but at the same time it might incentivize stuff like bgs wack to heal more

[wet smelt]

The effect of melee hitting is kinda just lifesteal

[meager flame]

you'd just see mega crazy stuff happening like

[wet smelt]

I just wish high end activities gave xp and rewards

[meager flame]

let me just eat one of these and now my dclaws are better than an sgs

[mint stratus]

It is. But its just any melee hit so youre still hitting the boss with your tent whip or scythe or whatever

[meager flame]

and if it was any combat style and not just melee

you'd stack it with zcb or something

[mint stratus]

Well for zcb example youd only heal off base max hit not ruby spec

Although if somebody wanted to bring a heavy ballista for fat heals id be all for it

[meager flame]

it would also have a fundamental issue where like

how mad would we all be when it was clearly the right play but this time we just rng our way into hitting a 5 each time we eat one

[viscid hamlet]

Leech-fin Membership discount would be a sick item

[meager flame]

and it does nothing

and then you tele out

[mint stratus]

This is also the problem with base leechfin no? "Oh no im dying in tob but my whip just isnt hitting at all"

[meager flame]

it is yeah

they basically handwaved everyone on that problem saying we hear you but we dont think it matters if it happens rarely

[mint stratus]

Hence my pitch of quarter of max hit if its higher

[meager flame]

which was kinda crazy to me lol

bc like

i've done olm enough to see myself hit the melee hand 4 0s and not turn the head

[mint stratus]

The original pitch is "its better than brewing if you want continuous damage uptime vs chip"? No?

[meager flame]

imagining that being my food failing on me would probably not result in a fun time

[analog crow]

You bring hard food at olm?

[mint stratus]

"If youre actually dying youre meant to be using hardfood/brews"

[meager flame]

no im just saying jagex acted like we would basically never hit that many 0s in a row

and i can think of a situation where i know for a fact it occasionally happens

and you actually are mega likely to hit that melee hand

we attack plenty of stuff with more def lol

like

if it had been it heals you the next time you hit or after 3 attempts at meleeing something i'd have been more okay with that

[tender harness]

the news blog still goes to the old blog for vampyrium lol

[meager flame]

i dont think surprise useless food is a great design the way they had it

[analog crow]

I think leechfin doesn't have to be food at all personally

[mint stratus]

Im in agreement with you in that I dont want style locked foods

Id like to see additional niches for food (hunter meats is peak) but style locking isnt it

[meager flame]

its just funny because imagine we had brews the way they are

but you could splash your brew on yourself

and it just did half healing

1% of the time

that sounds like crazy people shit like why would we do that

but thats how the sandwich was going to be lol

[languid tundra]

Evolution of eating

[analog crow]

Tfw you have to bring your bone dagger spec for your leechfin healing

[ruby geode]

The seekers are worded as raising min hit by 2, from 1 to 3, but is that incorrect? Can't you roll accuracy and hit for 0?

So minimum hit is 0 and they raise that +3 to 3? Or am I misunderstanding something

[wispy current]

If u pass accuracy check then min hit is 3

[untold edge]

it already failed the poll Jagex. stop trying to make leechfin sandwiches and prep stations happen ffs.

[ashen yarrow]

the fish itself passed so now they want some use for it. Some of the opinion poll parts do support making different buff food so he isnt 100% wrong

[untold edge]

im fine with the fish passing. but the way the sandwich was going to work and having the prep stations specifically for one new food popping up in select spots didnt jive with most ppl hence why it failed. and now theyre repolling how we feel about niche foods and prep stations. it feels like theyre trying to hammer it in still

[blissful topaz]

when are we getting left click bone bury option on ground items (like brutus)

[tacit wharf]

they're just asking what direction we want them to take with these 2 things now

its that simple

[untold edge]

its just weird that its still included as an option despite its hard implementation failing

its like polling "do u want A?" and that fails, so then they ask "do you want A or B?"

[tacit wharf]

i mean, its not like it as a landslide no vote

[ashen yarrow]

either they want similar thing or they want to know which specific parts of the leechfin sandwich players hated

it was multiple different issues so not everyone would be mad about each of them

[untold edge]

yeah but almost anything passes polls these days because people just want any content, this is the first main game content to fail a poll in a while which goes to show it wasnt it

[untold edge]

yeah thats fair

[oblique mesa]

They said its going to be a raids 4 reward, something of that powerful needs to come from hard content

[drifting valley]

Give us the good food

[blissful topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-pfp-anime-pfp-opinion-profile-gif-24421794

[limber creek]

so just fish it

🫤

[drifting valley]

Use the fish to make a sandwich

[ashen yarrow]

one of the options is to just give it more xp instead of food related reward

[limber creek]

we have to high of healing food already imo. sailing directly powercreeped pk feelsbadman

[drifting valley]

What u guys think the maggot boss will be weak to?

[south void]

New best fishing XP method being leechfin is fine with me

[oblique mesa]

Could also be best source for fine fish offcuts. Think everything only gives 1-1 right now.

[south void]

Maggot boss weak to increased membership prices

[ashen yarrow]

if added preparation stations should: not be added at all

why is that even an option there

[oblique mesa]

So you dont need to have more questions that are

Should prep stations be added

If you voted yes then choose from the following

Its clunky but /shrug seems fine

[limber creek]

@tacit wharf You see marlins and halibuts heal higher than anglerfish and karambwans hope that helps your question mark. Its new food from sailing you should stock up.

[south void]

Notice they put the correct answer at the bottom 🤣

[still sundial]

personally I just like using item on item, preparation station is nonsense

[tacit wharf]

can still combo people out for what 120-130, doesnt matter

[limber creek]

you can? Show me bro!

[ashen yarrow]

i wouldnt be opposed to making thousands of summer pies with noted resources but that is mainly for ironmen, in general not seeing it as a good thing

[timber drift]

just turn that shit into vial of blood skilling like scale fishing done no problemo

we havin this song and dance for every failed vote?

[ashen yarrow]

if the content passes and rewards dont they kinda need to replace the reward with something else

[timber drift]

thats the risk of making content before it passed

smth like ruinous prayers was also scrapped completely

cballs being delinked from sailing also failed the poll for some godforsaken reason but we didnt get an opinion poll on it

[tough dew]

Crush

[meager flame]

unless its pvp content

then they just ship it doa

[meager flame]

i think you're missing a key fact with polls tbf

its not about what they should do or what we want but instead its about what they choose to put on a poll to begin with

thats why we regularly get all or nothing questions

where they combine multiple topics into one question

and never ask us if maybe we agreed with 2 of the 3 things or whatever that were included in that question

[olive rune]

Illusion of people have a voice

[reef shale]

Whats with all the down votes on every post? 🤣 yall still salty about that $1?

[wispy current]

R u still salty tht ppl r still salty?

[tacit wharf]

people mad cuz people like to be mad

[drifting valley]

Im thinking its gona be stab or mage

Crush doesnt make sense since raids 4 will be crush

[tacit wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/starship-troopers-stomp-bugs-kill-gif-10084818

crush seems to fit

[drifting valley]

Doubt they would do b2b crush content

[tacit wharf]

would be a great reason to want the new crush mega

[meager flame]

its kind of the opposite they would certainly do it b2b

have to make sure the niche exists when you want to put stuff into it

same reason maggot king is getting a crush spec weapon

[limber creek]

Nah we moved past crush. We're onto smash now.

[meager flame]

this is a good thing since it shows they're planning ahead but it really looks like a setup to make sure all of these items they've already polled and potentially mentioned they'd like to do will actually work

[meager flame]

basically jagex is trying to carry on with their league hype train and a bunch of other people are pissed about little to no main game content while a price increase is hitting them and then jagex completely ignoring their comments on it

its probably not going to stop until they respond somehow

its already gone on longer than it did in the past

its actually pretty toxic from their management because the jmods are just taking a beating in the comments all the time and they're not even the people we would like to respond

well about the price anyways

i'd love for them to talk about their priorities when it comes to not updating the main game

but that would probably blow up

[bold portal]

This is gonna be radical, I know....but sometimes....there's a good reason. Not "being mad to be mad".

[true talon]

Btw the only way to invoke real change on something like a price increase is a mass quit that hits the bottomline and since no1 s willing to do that, sit down and enjoy the increase.

[tacit wharf]

and the increased price after u do "quit" to make a point

[true talon]

Real change doesnt come strongly worded statements or downvoting, it comes from actual actions such as quiting the game.

[limber creek]

Pull a stella and start dating a mod. Thatll get stuff done!

[drifting valley]

Well if it will be weak to crush then what will we use

Not everyone can afford a 300m inq mace and 250m inq armor

[limber creek]

Dh just be good enough to take no damage. ( i will not be good enough)

[true talon]

Consumerism can be summed up just like a GE price. how much are you willing to pay to benefit from the product before you seek alternatives. If the price becomes to great to outweight the benefit, then you will seek alterantives or outright quit. finding that perfect balance is how companies function.

[south void]

Dragon mace, bludgeon, soul reaper axe with new kit from leagues, scythe

[true talon]

If d arrows cost you 500k each are you going to keep firing d arrows? or are you going to downgrade.

[drifting valley]

Soul reaper axe is slash not crush or am i wrong

[old fulcrum]

Why are bonds 13m after the price hike before it was 14-15m

I like it tho

Bought a bunch

[south void]

It has a crush option

[drifting valley]

Does it really...

[south void]

Just like scythe does, which is wild

[drifting valley]

Wtf

[south void]

Yea I use sra at sarachnis cause it goes bonk on crush

[meager flame]

gonna get some gp or use a zombie axe or similar

and tbf

[drifting valley]

Im still not convinced its gona be a melee focused boss

[meager flame]

bludgeon/zombie axe etc actually do work if you dont have money

you can do pnm with a zombie axe pretty easily

[south void]

Zombie axe crush is pretty nice tbf

[drifting valley]

Do u think prices of crush weps will go up or are they already priced out

I still think shadow will be bis on it

[meager flame]

i think if jagex actually fills out the game with crush weak bosses to a small extent they probably all go up a bit

[south void]

Just like any new content, the prices rise due to speculation buyouts, then drop due to dumping once people use the weapons until their upgrades drop.

[meager flame]

at least the useful ones

like

if it turns out you want to be in 5t cycle on the boss and you bought a bunch of 4t crush weapons

its probably not looking good

inq mace is probably safe even if that happens because its actually just that much better

but something like a bludgeon would be in danger

[drifting valley]

How ?

[meager flame]

its on the lower end damage wise and its 4t

so a zombie axe probably just replaces it on the spot

[drifting valley]

Zombie axe is more dps?

[meager flame]

the reverse could also happen though

[south void]

Dragon mace-sarachnis cudgel-zombie axe-bludgeon (these weapons) I expect to go up in price up to and including after release if crush based, then prices for all those will drop again once the new crush weapons are more dropped/sold

[drifting valley]

Than bludgeon?

[meager flame]

if the boss favors 4t then 5t weapons could take a loss

in an outright dps race no its not better but jagex tends to often make bosses that punish or benefit certain attack speeds

especially the newer the bosses are

so they could pretty easily just decide 5t or 4t is meta for a boss and it would trickle down onto some weapons in an unfortunate way

[south void]

It's like at Duke, first half of the fight favors 5t then enrage favors 4t

[meager flame]

even pnm has it in a way although that example i think is actually maybe accidental

where the step under for the shadow phases on the corners is actually 5t

so if you want max dps and you're using a bludgeon you have to instead play those phases differently

that one is just cool because you actually can do something different to compensate

a lot of the time you just kinda lose some damage

[drifting valley]

What items u think will have potential to rise in price for bloodmoon/raids 4 then

[meager flame]

well if they do crush and elemental robes

almost the entire pnm loot table is looking likely

minus a couple orbs

i kinda doubt they go for the elemental robes though

[drifting valley]

But cheaper crush items would have to go up too right

Cuz not everyone can afford pnm items

[meager flame]

sorta but its hard to pick which one without seeing the raid itself

since there will just be one ideal lower end weapon that everyone ends up going for

they also might do something interesting but also kind of crazy/unexpected

verac is a crush set so they might give you some reason to want to use it

a lot of stuff could happen so who knows

theres also the blood moon set as well

[hard axle]

You can still voice your opinion before it actually permanently impacts the game

Just because you won't quit until its $50 a month doesn't mean the majority of people won't from a bad change, which will impact the game's longevity.

Trust is very easily torn down, which includes taking away grandfathered rates.

[austere mulch]

Doesn’t even have to be as dramatic as quitting the game. There are plenty people who downgraded from annual subscription to instead subscribing monthly as needed. Similarly, people reducing the number of total accounts they are subscribed on

All of the above, plus the negative press, impact the bottom line

[icy relic]

3 rounds of consultations for the leechfin sandwich which ultimately will make no difference whether it enters the game or not

amazing use of dev time when people are desperate for content

to justify the price increase

also for kisten to just be crush d claws instead of something new and exciting

and then outsourcing island development to reddit

[ember token]

the skilling content passed but the reward it was going to provide didnt, which means they need to figure out an alternative

getting a feel of what players want from it now is exactly what they should be doing, which they are

[safe elk]

Why they launching yet another league just as one has just ended ?

April 1st joke or ?

[minor whale]

The last actual league was 2024

But they have very recently done Gridmaster and DMM

They moved leagues ahead to give them room to continue dev work on the next big release in the summer since it got moved back

[safe elk]

But leagues isn’t satisfying or fun though

[tacit wharf]

just because its not for you, doesnt mean it isnt for others

[safe elk]

The numbers don’t lie and they’re dwindling

Let me tell you after day 1 pretty much half of whoever is playing that mode, stops.

[tacit wharf]

do u have evidence of this possibility or just blowing smoke

[safe elk]

Okay I’m blowing smoke but league is dogshit

[tacit wharf]

well i think that take is as well, so

[ashen yarrow]

yes day 1 most players try to log in on league launch, day 2 the players online at once will be significantly lower. That is fact but doesnt mean people stop playing

[safe elk]

What’s point in it though? What’s satisfying about it ?

[haughty lantern]

Fun.
If it isnt fun it isnt for you.

[safe elk]

Well…

[ashen yarrow]

people enjoy different things, something someone else likes might not be good for you

[safe elk]

They go all out for a niche group of people

[haughty lantern]

One would call you niche, the masses enjoy Leagues.

[tacit wharf]

its been over a yaer and 1/2 since the last league

[minor whale]

I don't think I'd say niche

The player count during the entirety of leagues is higher than not during leagues

It peaks day 1

But it remains elevated the entire time

[safe elk]

Exactly day 1 200k players ( as an example ) day 2 - 17k

[tropic kelp]

its fun having a busted build for a couple of weeks. i dont understand the leagues hate its like everything has to constantly be main game centric and everything temporary is waste of dev time

[haughty lantern]

Ask yourself this as they just upped the $$ for subs.

Would a company do a event over and over if it wasn't making them a lot of money over it?

"Niche" group of people.

[safe elk]

Tim! Are you defending their increase in subs?!?!

[tacit wharf]

ahh we got to the real reason

[haughty lantern]

Someome teach this man to read.

[tacit wharf]

sexual ref's arent tolerated here my guy

[tropic kelp]

you get a nice thrall visual upgrade

[tacit wharf]

<@&385422009930219520>

[safe elk]

That shouldn’t be linked to a silly temporary game mode

[haughty lantern]

Man is representing the OSRS tag but doesnt actually like OSRS. Very odd.

Anywhom, leagues - Is not for a niche group of individuals.

[minor whale]

I'd of course love for them to focus more on main game content
But leagues is very popular both for player count, returning players, and a massive return on investment

[safe elk]

I have more game hours than you. Relax sir.

[teal hinge]

ez bait gg

[minor whale]

There's absolutely no reason for them to not do them

[haughty lantern]

I somehow doubt that.

[tropic kelp]

these kind of things always have been

[sly venture]

Be kind please

[safe elk]

You know what, I was gonna go in on you Tim but I’ll let it slide since Jen is here.

Goodnight all.

[haughty lantern]

I really don't care what you were going to do, but thanks for the input.

[tropic kelp]

you should consider yourself lucky

[haughty lantern]

I don't care much for ragebaiters man, honestly they get mad as hell over you not giving the reaction you want.
He is wrong about leagues and hes mad over it, thats okay he will relax eventually.

[tropic kelp]

nah thats fair

arguing over the internet is pointless in general

i only do it when im bored

[haughty lantern]

I guess thats fair lol

[quiet plank]

i kinda sucked this year to have to back to back temp game modes and no big updates

[minor whale]

Yeah for sure

[analog crow]

Yeah they should have postponed dmm another year or smth instead

[tacit wharf]

that wouldnt make sense, that'd just be a month of no content

[meager flame]

the thing that i think is cool about the league is that the devs are obviously really happy to work on it

i just wish they were this excited about regular in game content lol

[cedar quail]

Well that could be chalked up to the fact that they can take a lot more liberties with stuff like this. "Regular in game content" has to be heavily polled within the community because they are too scared of an "EoC 2" basically

[icy relic]

There is a huge gulf between EoC 2 and our third consultation on leechfin sandwich

Also keep in mind sailing was extremely half-baked and will likely be so for several years

Years and years of dev time for something that barely fits into the game and more years of dev time required to justify the time and resources sunk into it, all because we have to be reactionary and shun everything in RS3, even the successful skills that could easily have been balanced around OSRS design philosophy

[meager flame]

i honestly dont even blame the community or anything when it comes to sailing

jagex had an open lane to put stuff on islands and people literally approved like

every single thing they mentioned?

that ones all on jagex

[icy relic]

I don't blame the community, I think jagex is just being incredibly cautious after Yama and Doom

but going so conservative on a new skill was not the play

it's good they added another source of the dragon cannon but the frost dragon/dragon nails issue has basically not even been acknowledged at all

[meager flame]

yeah im not even sure what to think about the state of it all

im just opting out of even doing sailing content until i guess they get it together

already got my max cape anyways

[icy relic]

I also think it's a huge mistake to add another megarare but "precedent"

even though every megarare has presented huge balancing issues because jagex insists on making them bis in more and more places

to compensate for scythe not being bis everywhere we got a year of slash content + oathplate + rancour

[chrome lantern]

It was acknowledged as intentional long before release of Sailing

[minor whale]

I wonder what exhilarating content we're getting in today's game update
Perhaps some bug fixes and that's it?
I'm on the edge of my seat

[chrome lantern]

I forgot it was even Wednesday

[round lintel]

Rune dragons dropping dragon cannon balls and dragon nails

nah idk what they might come up with

[ashen yarrow]

nice with that update they would finally be forced to at least add task only room or even add more rune dragon spawns. So people can actually kill them

[round lintel]

i think last time i killed one was a loooong time ago

more than a year

loot wise is worst than frost dragon but higher lvl worst to kill and gated towards a quest that takes almost the same time to get 87 sailing

[blissful topaz]

<-

[lucid laurel]

Has anything changed?

[restive siren]

with what

[ashen yarrow]

frost dragons average kill is worth about same as rune dragons, that is with dragon sheets and dragon nails being new items. you do kill frost dragons faster though, rune dragons bring all their drops below alch value because every single world always has 2-3 bots/alts farming them

[ebon crag]

Frost dragons are about to join them because KPH increased by 2.5x last patch for vampyre krakens and other sailing combat, all their drops are down like 30% today

[round lintel]

Personally i hate how many resources sailing needs, feel this frost dragon grind as a punishment more than anything else, but I dont mind as I can play a different acct, and just worry about the prayer and jingles.

personally Krakens have a nice look but bad combat design

Like I am not saying they shouldnt do damage like Narwhals or Orcas but the fact that is a repair kit eater makes them grinding not as fun as others

thats why the safespot

drops are too rare for my taste

I understand it was a new content but dragon items are waaaay to rare

I also think dragon boat parts are waaay to up on lvl, 94-97 sailing too high xd

while salvaging or cannons are lower lvl

[solar dirge]

erm where update post

[austere frost]

refresh

[fleet oxide]

Nice to see the official client mentioned 👏

[solar dirge]

liking that three digit cannon hit. next week though 😐

[silent peak]

So is this egg a new pet for poh collection? Or just wieldable thing?

[solid trout]

im sorry but the HP on sea creatures seams cartoonish.
I hit a 86 and the bar bearly moves? what are we doing here people

[solid trout]

it mentions that you can flex it in your poh so probably will be storeable in the menagery

[silk thicket]

Zomg

Can we also make the arena wider (more like a square) and/or the arena walls lower? Atm if u are near the side which is very easy to do then ur camera angle is cooked bcos it forces u to zoom out and have v vertical camera angle

I can get a screenshot of it happening yesterday

[meager flame]

i think the cannon change is a step in the right direction but they're still kind of resisting what it probably should be

cannons should do more damage than players at all times assuming you aren't doing some large nonsense comparison like a bronze cannon to a shadow

[minor whale]

It's being reduced, but realistically if the HP values on some monsters weren't high then people would complain that cannons hit too low to prevent every enemy from being 1 shot by everything

[ancient ember]

You can store Archibald in the menagerie of your POH like a pet rock 🙂

[meager flame]

like

[minor whale]

The text says just player cannon damage will be comparable to 2 NPCs and the player doing normal damage

[meager flame]

they shouldn't be tuning cannons as if they're your thralls for your crewmates

[minor whale]

I think that's a pretty solid buff and much better than what it is now

[meager flame]

they should just do the bulk of the damage and if you want to increase your participation by also attacking with your normal weapons

you should be able to do that

yeah but they're still getting stuck on if the player is manning the cannon or not

when the reality is you're telling the cannon what to do all the time and you shouldn't be comparable to them ever

they're cannons

[minor whale]

Nah I think it's fair that NPCs shouldn't be as good as you

And that you on the cannon will be bis

[meager flame]

i dont really see why

npcs are just a ship upgrade

like the cannons

[minor whale]

The NPCs are able to automatically shoot at anything nearby, there's a reason dwarf multi cannon isn't as good of dps as the player

[meager flame]

tbf

they should never have added that

but

[silk thicket]

Also minor feedback - I think stick with mystics to start. Being careful with robe hits is rly important in outlast fighting and ahrim has kinda nuts melee def. Also magic will be a lot stronger than melee/ranged with ahrim, but mystics would balance the dps across styles

Also does nox hally venom in lms? Ik dds doesn’t poison

[meager flame]

you are the ship so its not like the npcs are capable of doing xyz

its just you

the whole time

the difference between player and npc etc is just a thematics thing

[silk thicket]

But if it venoms then we need antivenom or more sanfews. Easiest if it just didn’t venom at all

[minor whale]

I think it won't venom

[silk thicket]

Yee hopefully

[minor whale]

Though the addition of a sanfew makes me think it's there for a reason

[silk thicket]

Sanfew always been there

I think it’s in case u misclick a restore dose or something idk

[silent peak]

Hell yes, I love that

[meager flame]

im glad this seems to be a good weekly update though

hopefully nothing blows up lol

[ancient ember]

that would be really helpful thank you! 👀

[restive storm]

PvP update and it’s just QoL

https://tenor.com/view/long-tears-gif-11087877242190144149

And 90% minigames lol

[merry verge]

"Max/Med bracket has had its Defence level increased to 85."

• Why 85?? It should just be 80, no?

Also I think it'd be cooler and make more sense with Aranea boots being available in the load-out, and Avernic Treads (max) rather be a drop from a chest.

Could also remove an additional 4 sharks for 1 brew so the setup is at least a bit similar to what one would bring into wildy:):)

[winter hearth]

little bit of future-proofing in case of future gear additions, plus just a little more defence to give people more survivability early-on - helps people learn if they're a little tankier

[merry verge]

Right, that makes sense. I guess that also explains the Avernic Treads (max) starter kit, which adds a lot of tankness, interesting

[silk thicket]

screenshot i cant dd bcos wall vid is a collection of camera angle issues from a single fight - u can see when the game forces the camera movement. The rly bad one was when I couldn't get a good angle at all, even rotating trying too zoom etc (26-40s)

basically we have to play with distance a lot, esp when fighting for refreezes, and trying to stay out of melee range forces us to move side to side as well

[round lintel]

Ill probably wait like a couple of days now to try these lmd changes i am too cooked to fight sweats 😄

Lms*

[minor whale]

I hope this isn't implying that BMR is late summer if the first blogs for the Sweep-up are happening in June

[round lintel]

Probably after leagues tbh

[winter hearth]

not at all related to current release schedule, just Arcane and I yapping about when devs will have a solid 'here's what we want to do in sweep-up' given that he's also leading The Fractured Archive

[meager flame]

i mean i guess they could basically release at about the same time

[minor whale]

That's a relief

[meager flame]

but yeah there was a roadmap so people are going to read it that way

[winter hearth]

for a blog like Sweep-Up we wouldn't realistically consider another update beyond 'probably don't release this blog in the same week that a major update is landing'

[obsidian venture]

Ok pvp changes ig

[round lintel]

Please rework some of the diary achievement tasks

[obsidian venture]

Have to see what the spawn location for multi bosses is now when exiting

[meager flame]

ya im just saying that the roadmap had sweep up before blood moon rises so if we're just blogging about it that late and the schedule didn't change

people are going to automatically do the 1+1 on that one

[manic saddle]

I was just reading the next leagues newspost and it says
"Can you give Yama Dairy rewards for Wilderness since Misthalin is gone?"

Many would think this is a typo and that it should say "Yama Diary", but I'm pretty sure it's actually confirmation that Yama is going to team up with Brutus.

[meager flame]

im pretty excited to see both raid blog and sweep up blogs though

[zinc galleon]

multi-revs on the horizon?

[ashen yarrow]

yama is a goat so close enough

[meager flame]

reward blogs are always the most interesting times to follow the game

[round lintel]

I just want to see what the rewards propossals are

[winter hearth]

I'm not excited to write them, but equally am very excited to write them

[meager flame]

lmao yeah usually people go crazy during the feedback cycle which makes it fun for us but probably not fun for you guys

[winter hearth]

I love putting them together, but attempting to thread the right line through the ensuing discourse is always a nightmare

[meager flame]

im pretty curious to see if any of the suggestions from anywhere ended up as some of the not megarare tier rewards

since everyone knows something will be there but we all have no idea what they could possibly be

[restive storm]

Pls let a brother know - I don’t have a sub anymore to check

[winter hearth]

We did quite like Hunt's suggestions for the chain/glaive kinda things, but more interested in the broad-strokes stuff people were saying after that initial round

[round lintel]

Things that require some attention:

• Diary tasks
• Mixology point system
• Colosseum rewards (Ralos, sunfire armour and echo boots)
• Current state of Max boats for sailing
• Solo Corp
• Inq low defence/Negative slash and stab accuracy
• Soulreaper Axe

[meager flame]

if i could wishlist any sweep up change it would probably be taking a look at SRA

[crude osprey]

Damn a whole days worth of unpolled pvp updates by the most out of touch regarded pvp game devs.

Lucky us

[untold edge]

let us barbarian fish leechfin to fill up vials of blood ya cowards

[meager flame]

its just funny because it actually gets used in the most insane way imaginable but the regular player using it kinda just hates the mechanic

[winged mantle]

It's a pet hunting/ slayer weapon 😭

[crude osprey]

How about we start polling updates again?

[round lintel]

To be honest I just dont like the losing stacks I dont care about giving the stacks but places like Vard, Colo you always end up losing 1-2 stacks. Even at Brutus you lose 1 everytime

[woeful lotus]

Very much appreciated that pvp is getting some attention. However, I want to highlight some potential issues with the changes to bounty hunter. Currently, I think having more players enjoying Bounty Hunter would be great for that ecosystem.

With the update of punishing accounts that require no-skull to function, a part of the current player base is in some regard cut off. From my point of view, this is not helpful to make Bounty Hunter flourish. Rather than punishing players, how about adding some extra benefits to the players who do choose to skull?

[meager flame]

honestly i think after using it the problem isn't even maintaining stacks exactly

i just think the penalty for gaining stacks is too much

[winged mantle]

Do you reckon the jmods would create a channel for sweep up ideas that the community would post for you to pool ideas from?

[meager flame]

the axe would be balanced if the hp loss didn't exist at all so it feels

bad

[zinc galleon]

right in the middle of the spiders xd

[silk thicket]

bh is kinda unfun bcos u get matched with 5 unskullers then someone in vesta abby dagger (bh)

[meager flame]

i'd probably feel differently if the axe were actually super crazy and losing the hp paid off in power

[round lintel]

The thing is without stacks is just a nox hally

[silk thicket]

punish unskulling more for sure

[meager flame]

yeah but it quickly becomes better than a halberd or blade

[red acorn]

Pvp just needs 1 thing... fist of guthix 😂

now's the time to bring back fog with raids 4 being guthixian!

[meager flame]

and realistically you just dont lose all of your stacks and then get so few attacks off with it that you'd actually do less damage

[untold edge]

it'll all be agility shortcuts (because of me)

[round lintel]

Stacks are ok, but the fact that you keep losing them is something that makes the weapon really not worth its use

[winged mantle]

Sra should be a good weapon worth the grind

[meager flame]

ya thats what i mean

if it was just identical to its 5 stack form for no cost at all times

its actually balanced

so the debuff is unfair for the player and sucks to play around

[timber drift]

whats the point of doing inconsistent shit to spellbook and autocast in wildy to 'preserve pvp muscle memory' or whatever but we add minigame tele anyway that moves the position of ice barrage

[ancient ember]

I'm noting down your feedback 🙂

Also I've checked with the team and yes, Nox Hally does venom in LMS

[meager flame]

if SRA were like better than a scythe and insane dps the debuff would make sense

but thats not how it is

[winged mantle]

If they add any please add to mos le harmless north island and the trollheim sled top area

[meager flame]

well thats not usually how it is

[untold edge]

those plus meiyerditch labs through the spiked wall

[silk thicket]

based 🙂 ya i think hally will be instawin then with one sanfew and no antivenom

[meager flame]

i suppose its better at that one boss and on random slayer creatures where you wouldn't care about the hp loss

but thats a bit sad for its niche

[timber drift]

also sotd camp + pray range with spec is gonna be hilarious to make people mald in lms

[silk thicket]

esp with longer fights now

[winter hearth]

we're pooling ideas all year long basically, might be that we put our initial post out and see some other cool bits but we tend to want to target stuff that's future-proofing, threads like those tend to be a lot of smaller stuff that sit largely in typical QoL stuff. Never say never, but think if we did then people might just be upset at their fave things not making it in

[urban kayak]

Hammer at giants foundry is bugged after update

[untold edge]

id also like a shortcut to hop over the railing from the top floor in darkmeyer to bottom floor

[winter hearth]

investigating this

[meager flame]

i mean that did actually happen in the other sweep ups

[untold edge]

wait did it

[meager flame]

like how a lot of people want to see rapier/blade looked at and were sad in the past when it wasnt in

they still want that this time too im sure

[silk thicket]

lms popping off alrdy : o

[minor whale]

Unskullers are the worst and should be punished
They're building up a ton of the reward potential being in the crater and waiting the requisite 30 seconds for someone to skip them

[timber drift]

blade doesnt deserve shit CG is broken enough already

rapier yeah

[restive storm]

Ok so still bad, but at least I don’t take 2 brews of damage if I pray melee

[meager flame]

i mean i dont even really think cg is broken

its good but there are plenty of other comparably good grinds now right there with it

[timber drift]

infact blade already better with oath

[winged mantle]

People will be upset regardless of what makes it 😅

[loud hedge]

guys Giants' Foundry i broken

[meager flame]

for example

doom

[loud hedge]

is*

[untold edge]

somewhere right naw

[minor whale]

If your build in bh requires you to not skull up you should probably just take the L with understanding you don't get as good of crates or emblems, surely that isn't the main source of gp for unskullers lmao

[loud hedge]

after the update

[timber drift]

does doom give a 4t slash wep im out of the loop

[round lintel]

Blade isnt broken is just not good at all, same as rapier. Mace for example on the same tier has more uses and top of that +2 prayer.

[timber drift]

yeah i didnt say blade was broken

[meager flame]

nope it gives you shadow lite the best boots in the game and the best magic gloves

[winter hearth]

For sure! Just think these things tend to be smoother when we provide some initial steer and help them feel focused around 'we want to improve this specific system/broad collection of things' rather than 'whatchu got' and having a bunch of disparate suggestions - but we'll see how we feel closer to the time

[loud hedge]

Trip hammer doesn't work

[meager flame]

so it occupies a much larger but similar position that CG did

you can basically kill tds and walk in the door assuming you can actually kill the boss

[timber drift]

oh so you need gear for it i see

sounds unlike something like cg

[meager flame]

gear is a strong word

[timber drift]

gear is gear

[round lintel]

Most of new irons on confliction gauntlets and ayak with fury and blue moons

[meager flame]

you need void and synapses lol

[restive storm]

I’m just scared that this is gonna be our “pvp update” for the next like two years again

[timber drift]

idk maybe im cooked but making CG more ubiquitous sounds like a take

[hazy zodiac]

wrong season? 🙂

[untold edge]

thats there 24/7

[meager flame]

ya i think you're like slightly cooked on this one

cg isn't what it used to be

its still good

but its not the only thing

[round lintel]

Cg is just ironman prison or bots paradise

Barely see a main there

[timber drift]

nah i think you are

[minor whale]

CG is not that great
Bowfa is not good for mains, Saeldor is not good for anyone, and catering the game towards "irons are already rewarded too much by this content" is silly

[meager flame]

fair enough im just letting you know its not like cg or bust anymore

you can just not do cg

[timber drift]

i dont think that's silly

[meager flame]

and not be dumb for it

[minor whale]

I do

[timber drift]

saeldor still the best 4t option with oath lol

[winter hearth]

it's a reference, how delightfully droll! (have made a note)

[timber drift]

unless you're gonna sink 150h on a SRA

[untold edge]

i made a TFA suggestion once of a new ranged weapon and was surprised to see how many irons were begging for it to be a thing just because it bridges the gap across bowfa/tbow grinds lol

[winged mantle]

Stupid smarch weather

[minor whale]

I think not wanting a useless weapon that's been asked to be given a bit of relevance since it launched simply because "CG bad" is silly yes

[timber drift]

i havent and i'm still fully aware im trolling

[meager flame]

oh are you the uh

giant bow guy

[frozen bluff]

@ancient ember @delicate glen @gilded granite @carmine ferry @devout sparrow @rigid quail @candid mesa @verbal oyster @somber ether Since the update - there is a bug at Giant's Foundry on the trip hammer. Not sure where to report this? I've just created the most difficult sword of my life 😂

[winter hearth]

it's being worked on!

[timber drift]

that's not what im saying at all but way to misconstrue it

[untold edge]

nah im the recurve bow guy

[frozen bluff]

Thank you

[round lintel]

Blade is just slightly less than 1% better than nox hally (in max both with oathplate)

And nox hally is just easier to get

[untold edge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1rnn71s/raids_4_reward_suggestion_thorned_recurve_bow/

[meager flame]

i honestly think what both you and the other guy tried to do by putting a bowfa alternative in the raid was cool

[timber drift]

ok sounds fair lets keep it as is

[minor whale]

I mean, what are you saying then
Either you dislike CG and don't want to do it to get the content, or you think CG is too good and don't want something useless from there to be made useful?

[winged mantle]

I still like my triple shot crossbow idea

[meager flame]

i have a tbow etc now so its not like i just dont want to do cg

i just think its a cool option/alternative route

[untold edge]

personally i prefer my dual xbow idea over the recurve but it didnt get as many upvotes https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1rpd2fm/raids_4_reward_suggestion_serpi_vipa/

[timber drift]

i dont want it to be the one stop shop for both your melee and ranged weapons that you camp with 0 gear for 800kc yeah and then continue to use the weapons for 1k+ hours

[minor whale]

If they buff the 4t melees then obviously Saeldor should get something

[timber drift]

nah its too easy to get compared to rapier and mace

doesnt deserve shit

[meager flame]

i mean i actually think the 4t melees should all be changed like how inq makes the mace crazy

the mace is fine now

it makes sense at t80

because of the armor

[minor whale]

Not wanting it to be buffed along with the others because "but CG already gives irons the bowfa" is a pretty weird take

[gray otter]

venenatis / vetion / callisto teleporting you now above ground when escaping feels now riskier? as people can just camp one spot

[meager flame]

the rapier and the blade though are left behind

[untold edge]

yeah i think theres def room for that spot despite ranged feeling like it has a lot. it needs more variety in mechanics imo

[timber drift]

makes perfect sense to me

[winged mantle]

Just like south escape caves

[round lintel]

Rapier is not hard to get, at least tob isnt what it used to be in terms of difficulties.

[timber drift]

well harder then sure

[ashen yarrow]

basically many ironman already struggle getting 1 enhanced weapon seed, they do not want to get another

[gray otter]

Yeah but you could just not run south before?

[meager flame]

tbf the hardest thing about tob after people learned tob in the general sense

[round lintel]

I find rapier less time consuming to get than blade

[winged mantle]

Where does it spit you out?

[meager flame]

was just getting into the raid with people who were going to be chill about it

[winged mantle]

How far distance from one another

[timber drift]

maybe but you actually want a semblance of gear for it instead of being naked

[meager flame]

that's always been most people's wall when it comes to the rapier

[gray otter]

In the middle by the blood rune spawn, not the far from each from what I could tell

[meager flame]

because just getting kc at tob isn't really too hard

[winged mantle]

Hmm perhaps they need to increase the range of distance you can be teleported out to

[meager flame]

theres just a weird community perception going on around tob that makes it hard to get in the raid in the first place compared to the other raids

[winged mantle]

Tile wise

[round lintel]

You can go tob with msb and zombie axe and end up with a purple every 10 hrs 3 tobs an hr...

[untold edge]

what do irons have right before getting bowfas in their upgrade paths? rcb? toxic bp?

[meager flame]

rcb most likely

[winged mantle]

Probably atlatl

[round lintel]

Depends

[gray otter]

at least when i ran it just now (I don't know if there's much random) it was within 15 tiles

[meager flame]

maybe ayak honestly lol but yeah atlatl and rcb are the like

[gray otter]

i tried each of the bosses

[untold edge]

tbf rcb with dia e bolts is pretty strong, but yeah its no bowfa kit

[meager flame]

guaranteed probably here options

[untold edge]

ah yeah forgot about atlatl

[timber drift]

then ur getting carried but ok

[winged mantle]

My guess would be bp/atlatl/ayak

[round lintel]

• Barrows -> Moons -> Tds/demonics -> Yama/Doom

[timber drift]

still more gear than cg

[untold edge]

so theres absolutely a gap that can be filled there

[winged mantle]

Some skip moons apparently

[meager flame]

but yeah the new path to having great stuff by just

[round lintel]

But that isnt the issue is just doable

[winged mantle]

Twinflame and you can do zulrah

[meager flame]

investing in killing demons basically for an extended period makes it all look different now

[merry flicker]

It is an issue

[ashen yarrow]

atlatl is too strong, it is only balanced by hybrid gear being limited to mid game. All best str bonus has negative range att

[untold edge]

kind of okay with that

[restive storm]

yea atlatl is really lame

[merry flicker]

Yeah thats kinda the point

[timber drift]

do u always argue in bad faith

yeah just buy scales you dont need to get any other gear lol

no way you believe this

[round lintel]

Nowadays bp on an iron is almost never use, sure is nice to get but amethyst takes a minute and d darts upkeep mmm idl

[merry flicker]

What

[untold edge]

rune darts are still good with bp

[merry flicker]

Lmfao

[untold edge]

even addy

[round lintel]

You can go by without a bp

[timber drift]

wrong

[meager flame]

i mean you still take your bp to like all of the content that you'd use a bp on

i guess its more niche than it was

[merry flicker]

You still get one

[meager flame]

but bp hasn't been insane and like the only range weapon you'd use in a hot minute

if thats what you meant

[ashen yarrow]

you can do all content without specific, it just will be slower

[untold edge]

they should add a new bp to TFA and just make it have the stats of the pre nerf bp :p

[timber drift]

bro is just talking out of his minigame teleport icon 😭

[winged mantle]

Rune darts all the way

I use my bp constantly

[cedar grail]

Is there a section to post for game bugs?

[merry flicker]

Report in game

[proven junco]

GG to multi bosses.

[meager flame]

i honestly didn't use my bp that much its often with me but

its usually floating around in there for specific stuff during a raid or whatever

[cedar grail]

Ty wasnt sure if there was a section on here too

[timber drift]

spec is always nice for ranged content if you dont have smth like zcb, bp is great at doom, tob without having a scy just off the top of my head

[untold edge]

its nice for baba puzzle room too

[winged mantle]

For aya skipping/ maz skipping/ some slayer tasks, toa, tob + others

[merry flicker]

Its obviously a grind but eventually you drop bowfa for the BP setup

[meager flame]

ya you'd use it at tob a ton as long as you dont have a tbow

[winged mantle]

Rdps is fun

Bp go brrrr

[meager flame]

yeah if i had somehow ended up in a crazy situation like that i'd have dropped bowfa for full masori etc + bp

but i looted a tbow before that

[round lintel]

I almost never use it with ToA QOL u mostly butterfly with bowfa unless u make a mistake u dont use bp, at babba u use the baboons to explode the others no need to clear, at babba itself you dont need bp to skip second boulder, at Cox no use, I only use it for tob

At doom I got knives

[winged mantle]

Knives 👀

[untold edge]

were saying if u dont have bowfa

[winged mantle]

I use my bp a lot

[timber drift]

bp still better on akkha shadows, kephri swarming?

self reporting

[round lintel]

Yeah but if you are butterflying no need to stop and bp

[winged mantle]

Sra, bp, vbow, shadow, tbow, scy, fang, ayak, td weps, all get used. The bofa not anymore 😅

[untold edge]

but does bowfa have a healing spec with a max hit of 0? didnt think so. checkmate

[timber drift]

fair i dont bfly akkha no real need

[round lintel]

Touché

[meager flame]

the thing bowfa does really well for irons is that it just puts you on like a decent platform to kill things with range

[timber drift]

slower fight and no dps spec

[meager flame]

its probably not the best possible option but

you get all of that dps way earlier than you'd get any of the other stuff

[timber drift]

you kinda use it for like 1k hours till tbow

generally

[meager flame]

ayak is the one big exception

[obsidian venture]

Fascinating conversation 😄

[meager flame]

which is why cg is less good now

[untold edge]

yeah as a main i once wasted money on a bowfa kit thinking it was something special until the crunched numbers showed i was better off with alternative options for a fractional difference

[timber drift]

its just as good as before

lol

[round lintel]

Even at inferno I only used bp when I used my tbow, bp mostly to correct mistakes with spec

[silk thicket]

lms feels niceeee

[timber drift]

ur still trolling if you try to skip it

[pulsar glade]

duel arena is broken some of us been waiting to get in since update.

[timber drift]

rcb toa cox lesgo

[meager flame]

i mean its not a lot of the places you could've used a bowfa previously unless it explicitly has to be range

can now be replaced by your mini shadow

you really dont have to do cg at this point

[winged mantle]

Bowfa is still good to go for but you don't have to get one anymore

[round lintel]

Im not saying you should skip it im saying is on the low priority of a new irons life. I have a bp I upkeep my ddarts

Never use anything less when I use it

[winged mantle]

You could just ayak + bp + nhally

[meager flame]

confliction gauntlets + ayak just puts in insane work

like

[winged mantle]

It's not hard to sustain darts or scales as well

[meager flame]

one of those probably should be nerfed lol

but idk if they'd ever do it

[obsidian venture]

Rebalance maybe

[round lintel]

But the game just got me around not using it for a while first atlatl then bowfa (Took me sometime to get my first bp) that I just feel is not like it used to be when u had a bp

[meager flame]

its just weird because i think if those items didn't both exist both of them make sense

but when combined its a little bit much

[round lintel]

Like bp is insane with Masori but in 200 350s only got top

[winged mantle]

When I got my bofa it was a must and it helped me get to where I am now. I'm glad the iron gamemode isn't a cg funnel as much anymore

[timber drift]

just wait till they buff blade 🤪

[round lintel]

Is like ZCB yeah is the best spec weapon but in top end of your iron's life rushing Nex isnt one of those.

[winged mantle]

Doubt

[pulsar glade]

@carmine ferry i think the duel arena is broken ive signed up waited 20 mins reset etc bt nothing

[meager flame]

i mean even if they did buff blade

you'd still replace it

its kind of hard to get offended at the idea of the blade actually being worth getting lol

[winged mantle]

Would rather see other options added then more cg funneling

[round lintel]

Nox hally is just as good as having blade + avernic defender so...

[meager flame]

it doesn't even have to be a direct buff to the blade's stats it could be like how inq now buffs mace a ton

[round lintel]

Avernic + blade = 200m nox hally = 52m.

[meager flame]

just let people get a crystal blessing from new content that makes crystal armor buff blade by a reasonable %

now its interesting

[round lintel]

No

[winged mantle]

Next wave of 4 tic rapier, blade and crush wep

[round lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-gif-18219884

[hallow dirge]

The hammer at giants foundry is broken. Keeps kicking everyone off of it

[meager flame]

i mean they're not going to give you the inq mace power on blade

outright

that would be a crazy buff

[winged mantle]

If anything required a mace, blade or rapier to upgrade people would lose it

[round lintel]

Just keep the blade where's at and add a new tier weapon in the long future

[meager flame]

they already do

if you want peak inq mace

[round lintel]

Again we got the nox hally

[meager flame]

you have to get full inq

[round lintel]

Maybe fiximg sra

[meager flame]

so you've gotta commit on some level if you want the inq mace to be as good as it can be and that comes with some trade offs

[round lintel]

Qol sra is more viable for how rare that thing is

[meager flame]

thats probably how it would go for blade/rapier too

i doubt they'd just swing by and toss str bonus on them and leave

[round lintel]

The thing is... they are dead content let them die...

[meager flame]

that doesn't seem very productive

[winged mantle]

New content could just add an attachment to them

[timber drift]

i think they could genuinely just remove the hp bullshit from SRA and it'd still be fine

[winged mantle]

Keep them relevant

[obsidian venture]

Glad this is an iron discussion

[winged mantle]

I love me a discussion

🍿

[meager flame]

i mean i do think just removing the whole take damage mechanic from SRA would mostly fix it

[obsidian venture]

🧘‍♂️

[meager flame]

the power level is already appropriate

its just less usable

[restive storm]

PvP QOL update -> iron discussion only

[ancient ember]

You can also raise any bugs here, I'm monitoring

I've updated the newspost with some known issues https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/easter-2026--pvp-qol-improvements?oldschool=1&_gl=1

[restive storm]

maybe 2029 will be our year

[meager flame]

im ngl

i honestly think pvp is gone and never coming back lol

[restive storm]

prob right 🙁

[winged mantle]

Old pvp yeah

[meager flame]

i dont even support that happening to pvp but

[obsidian venture]

Please make surge sacks tradeable

[restive storm]

cant buy an update lol

[winged mantle]

We need new pvp

[meager flame]

i just dont see these guys ever investing in something that's deemed to not be popular enough

[noble crow]

Overall this update is pretty good. But what were they thinking with the escape cave changes?

• Now 1 single tile for all 3 bosses instead of random spots in the cave.
• PK'ers can just camp that one spot instead of having to guess an exit.
• Basically you just die now without a chance to escape.

The response so far seems to be "hop back in the cave if you wanna use it lol". But that doesn't help at all as PK'ers are now instantly on you and freeze you.

[meager flame]

even though it got that way because of them

[obsidian venture]

Also isn’t nox for lms fucked

You have 1 sanfew

[pulsar glade]

@ancient ember duel arenas not working and people been standing here 10+ mins not everyone but

[meager flame]

yeah unless you're getting them in a resupply easily

[elfin glade]

LMS is my only experience with NH (900 wins), but I specifically liked that the powerlevels were low. I understand that the new starter setup reduces the gap between someone with no upgrades and someone with a ton of upgrades, but I'm not sure that's the way I'd pefer to balance it.

• More "intelligent" chest loot would help a lot, e.g:. don't give a Torag's helm if I'm already holding a Guthan's helm, don't give me Ahrim's if I'm wearing Ancestral, don't give me the same loot that I just killed my opponent for but I deliberately left on the ground, remove G maul and dark bow from max/med loot entirely. Remove 3rd age hats from zerker, maybe also fremennik kilt. These are upgrades I have never taken.
• Instead of a staff of the dead in the starter setup, how about a Master wand? It helps with catching freezes on DDers since it can autocast, and doesn't invalidate the staves you can get from chest loot.
• I'm also not sold on the extra saradomin brews, which make each fight take longer and are harder to use for beginners. I'll have to play with it myself to see how I feel.
• Nox halberd without actual antivenoms sounds insane!

[meager flame]

depending on how you look at it though maybe they want to speed it up

and want people dealing with the venom

[cedar grail]

For the canoe station at ferox when you try to cut it, it puts you in a weird back and forth walking animation and wont cut. I had another player try as well. I was able to make canoe yesterday before update.

[chilly schooner]

giants foundry is bugged after the update

[elfin glade]

They just buffed survivability with 108 extra hp worth of sara brews, though

[meager flame]

also did any of you actually do lms to see if it actually venoms yet

[elfin glade]

Mod Yume said above that it does

[meager flame]

i see

[winter hearth]

it does, will chat with the team tomorrow about whether we just add an antivenom in or change the LMS version to just poison

[meager flame]

yeah i kinda thought it might be an lms version of it

[elfin glade]

Poison would probably be okay

[timber drift]

some of the lms choices are a bit of a headscratcher yeah

idk why you'd start with sotd

[noble crow]

I think the entire goal of the escape caves was that PK'ers couldn't just camp inside of there and insta freeze you when you leave. They had to chase you and communicatie with people outside which exit you were taking.

Now you just spawn on 1 tile where a team can just camp you.

???

[meager flame]

i think maybe its an oversight

[noble crow]

Escape caves are too far too reach before being frozen as well

[timber drift]

to add to this you have a DDS to spec with at the start but the overall melee def in the starter setup got buffed out of the wazoo so you're much less likely to hit with it too

[noble crow]

Love the other changes, but please revert this one for now 😛

[woeful lotus]

As for the updates to BH, I think maybe the risk a player is carrying should be factor when determining if the emblem upgrades should be restricted or not. For example, should a 100k risk bronze skulled player be rewarded more than a noskulled player carrying 10m?

There are plenty of very strong builds with little to no risk, and similar strength builds that do require no skull to function, but that also requires a large gp in risk.

Maybe the emblem upgrades should be enabled for noskulled builds as long as they carry enough gold?

[cedar grail]

@ancient ember if you need any other info just lmk! Would love to have this fixed soon. I know you guys are busy tho!

[silk thicket]

hmhmhmhm poison sounds good but sanfew is 15 min antipoison

but if lms sanfew did 30s antipoison id agree with the principle so ppl can learn to cure venom by periodically using sanfew

[pulsar glade]

@ancient ember duel arenas not working and people been standing here 10+ mins not everyone but

[restive storm]

since we aint gettin multi revs they had to give the multi scene somethin i guess cuz those caves are the worst thing ever

[elfin glade]

Oh, right. Reducing its duration is an interesting idea.

[noble crow]

I don't understand why this something always has to be defenseless PvM'ers, it's the exact thing that just made people leave the PvP scene for years.

[restive storm]

they're not defenseless, half the time i would go down there i'd get 1 hit by 45 people

[oblique mesa]

Please think of the defenseless PvMers doing callisto in groups of 20-30!

[noble crow]

I still need to meet those groups. I've only seen that twice and those were bots without risk

[ancient ember]

We're aware of this and the team's looking into it, likely related to the Giants' Foundry issue.

[restive storm]

lots of clans do masses as well

streamers as well at least used to, before they all quit pking to play ironman mode cuz the wildys dead

[noble crow]

And the wildy is dead because of what i said. Yet here we get another update making people just leave the area xD

[pulsar glade]

pvp is dead as the updates been targeted to pvmers for last 20 years lol

[noble crow]

I just don't get it

[restive storm]

pj timer removed our ability to target pkers, so agree since the last like 4-5 years it has to be pvmers being the feed for pkers

[noble crow]

I mean it is what it is. There's always Cal'varion for now

[restive storm]

which kinda stinks

[cedar grail]

Adding a new spot for pvp would be cool not just the wildy, like an island u sail too that's like the wildy and all pvp. I know there's bounty hunter but thats not straight wildy

[meager flame]

the problem is without a pj timer you start getting toxic interactions for people pvping

[pulsar glade]

u lot would cry if they added any new item so wouldent work

[restive storm]

there was like 4 minigames mentioned today that are all safe to try pvp lol, just not really anyone plays them outside of lms

[winter hearth]

not even clans, I used to regularly jump on with people like Sween, Ayiza and some pals to just shoot bear and scrap with little teams that come in in low risk setups, just a bit of fun where you kinda breakeven and just yap, have some drinks and a little chaos etc.

but does seem as though changes today are perhaps off the mark

[meager flame]

like before it existed you just had people mad about fights being interrupted or not being able to loot etc

or the worst case scenario where people essentially get harassed in singles

to the point that they just have to not participate wherever it is

[restive storm]

yeah dont get me wrong, i think that there may need to be more spots than just poison spiders where you can spawn. But if i was playin the game rn id actually give pking there a try since i wouldnt get thrown into those godforsaken caves anymore lol

[noble crow]

That's what we also do! That's exactly who this content is for. But exactly those people now just get stacked out on a single tile when trying to escape 🙁

Don't get me wrong. We don't always escape or anything. But now we just guaranteed death hahaha

[winter hearth]

nothing funnier than you and 7 other uncs seeing a white dot and just 'neuron activation' before 30 more people appear and run through your band of dad gamers

think we just need to considerably adjust implementation, but have made the team aware that it needs some tweaking to better strike a balance

[restive storm]

like the same logic applied where youd get thrown into one of the four-five cave spots in escape caves, just put into the overworld that if you leave within XYZ time period you go to each

[meager flame]

i think its just going to be a bit of an eternal struggle

[restive storm]

i aint had 7 shooters online since pre-pj timer days sadly, good times tho

[meager flame]

i think it would be quite hard to have escape being very balanced to the point that it wasn't a little too easy for one side or the other

[restive storm]

one hitting the multi noobs at chins was great

until some other team ran in from the east

[noble crow]

I feel like it was pretty balanced. My escapes there were like 50/50

[restive storm]

idk if 50/50 for being caught in a multi combat area is necessarily "fair" lol

[meager flame]

yeah but just in general in the wild lets assume its not a team on you

[restive storm]

used to legit be like 99% lol

[winter hearth]

IT for sure is, I wish we had better ideas for how to get more people to just be happy squadding up in absolute nothing gear to just chat with pals, try freezing somebody under Callisto etc., just complete beginner stuff that's silly and fun, risking like 100k - does wonders for building up your confidence with Wilderness stuff in general. Never been part of a clan but just flying on with colleagues and pals deciding 'tonight I don't make progress, I just mess about with the boys'

[meager flame]

its actually very balanced in favor of the guy trying to escape just because if they're willing to really play

they can freeze log etc

[noble crow]

Gl with freezelogging in multi lol

[meager flame]

yeah thats the next part of it

when you get caught in multi it flips the other way

[restive storm]

right but if its in FAVOR of the guy trying to escape hows that balanced

[meager flame]

where if they're good and aren't like

2 people

you're basically just dead most likely

and player skill falls all over that spectrum

[pulsar glade]

thats what alot of people want but many things are stopping that from happening.

[meager flame]

so idk how you nail the balance

[winged mantle]

Perhaps a group finder for pvp + pvm + social

[restive storm]

sounds an awful lot like an old cave i remember that was the most active place in the wilderness where a lot of people got their pvp footing

[winter hearth]

I agree, but equally it is a thing that you can just go and do rn with some pals, streamers do it, I do it with my fellow washed-up 30 year old gamers (when I'm not cripplingly addicted to POE)

[noble crow]

Hey, it's good to know the team is looking for a balance. Gives me a nice break off the VW grind to try and get these dragon hooks.

[restive storm]

trying to 1 shot someone w/ ballistas on login etc lol

[pulsar glade]

the amount of back stabbing lol

[modest shoal]

the telescope in the study room of the POH while having the wildy theme active gives you the prompt that you're looking at a wall, this has been a bug since it's release

[winged mantle]

That's something we don't really have. Find a group for pvp, raids, skilling bosses etc

In game that's not a clan

[winter hearth]

It is true that - while it's a bit of a taboo - multi revs was quite fun for you and a pal or two to just sprint through and try to AGS somebody in a quick heist etc., combination of player attitudes coupled with content-specific stuff that makes it harder these days. I do still think that something like a Callisto unit of you and 4-9 pals goes hard for a lil Friday night activity

[winged mantle]

World type but still some worlds don't have the activity you want

[pulsar glade]

Yeah, you can but with limit people, huge clans, minigames which people are doing instead of the wild. less accounts in wildy due to the cost of members which is only going to get worse less pures and alt accounts. also i blame you lot for messing with single combats which no teams can work together now.

[meager flame]

sort of related but

i really think osrs should have a party system built in

[winter hearth]

for PvP you'd find somebody who'd call their actual squad to come through and smoke you though, think a groupfind like that might invite some toxicity rather than outright solve it

[winged mantle]

Just for advertising

[meager flame]

its probably a crazy amount of work but

[restive storm]

I think it can, i usually dont make it back from the 2nd return just cuz the escape caves were so prohibitive to pking there (and have been for several years). So maybe itd be a bit better now? But a little past the time for me to even bother trying to gett ppl back on to go out and try that, especially when odds are its gonna just get changed again haha. But yeah, i think if jagex is going strictly off of player polls, we aint getting any sort of pvp revival content again sadly. Would prob take integrity updates

[meager flame]

it would just make coop gameplay easier

[winged mantle]

Then upto the players to access before letting them into another type of fc

[noble crow]

I think maybe we should look towards promoting fighting back. Maybe make team capes have more use. Something like, if you attack someone in the Callisto cave with a team-43 cape, it counts as attacking the entire team, thus allowing retaliation without skulling when one of your clan members gets attacked.

It'd promote real team fights

[oblique mesa]

If you are doing callist with a group you should be in gear where skulling doesn't matter though.

[noble crow]

Just a thought since i do notice now teams just run, unwilling to skull.

[oblique mesa]

You already have the advantage of freezing people as they come in in clumps lol

[restive storm]

wouldnt pkers just not wear team capes? and then this wouldnt change anything lol

[winged mantle]

Irons would fight back if we had gear we don't care to lose. Make it worth something to mains but not a hassle to re obtain

[noble crow]

I read a lot of "should" but lets face it, there's no fighting back right now 😛 People rather just bring 2 extra items and not skull

I feel like going on the offensive should give a slight disadventage if you're unprepared

[winged mantle]

Thoughts on removing skulling where everyone keeps 3 items? So you don't need to skull to attack a person

[noble crow]

The disadventage being you risk more

[restive storm]

I think thats just kinda multi in general, people fight back all the time in singles cuz unskulled you have a massive advantage lol

[winged mantle]

Just an idea

[noble crow]

Can always combine it with something else like the friends list, clan etc

[meager flame]

i mean i dont really think anything would go that wrong with removing it you'd just have to provide an outlet like high risk worlds

[pulsar glade]

i would rather you lose everything including plus 1 lol

[meager flame]

because a lot of the time in like

[restive storm]

eh not a huge fan in general. Feel like itd promote a lot of ragging in like bofa/nhally/vw sets just waiting for some1 to hit one person on your team

[meager flame]

the planned 1v1 fights the guy risking significantly more doesn't skull etc

[restive storm]

then your team just gets free reign to dumpster anyone lol

[meager flame]

so players already kind of control for something like that

[noble crow]

Well that's the risk of going out of your way attacking a group in multi isn't it? If you don't want the smoke you can always bring more people or find a better fight

Attacking a team shouldn't be free loot

It should be dangerous

[restive storm]

not really no lol, nowadays you can still attack those teams, and they can attack you back

[winged mantle]

For non pvp tho it would be so welcome

[restive storm]

but they cant do it in insane amounts of gear if they dont want to risk anything

[twin mountain]

so is it worth my time to even play the game right now, or will they be a roll back due to the bugged NPC'S?

[meager flame]

i wish we had like ranked pvp that mattered in osrs

where you could just queue up with other people and fight other teams and so on

[noble crow]

A system where you fight people of similar skill would be nice in general. Good way to get into PvP as well

[restive storm]

this exists with the pvp arena but nobody does it lol

[meager flame]

thats because of something very unfortunate

[restive storm]

so id rather they not waste their time continuing to try that

[meager flame]

they essentially saw us vote no to their reward proposals and said okay fine and just

released the content unfinished and its dead to this day

[ashen yarrow]

the escape caves will send you to random spot in any of 3 different exit hotspots from what i tested. Teams hunting solo players would need at minimum 3 players outside standing in different spots to cut off all exits

[meager flame]

cant underestimate actually giving people rewards and a reason to play

[restive storm]

the "just one more minigame" for pvp approach isnt gonna work, we have SO MANY already like they just updated Fight Pits today..... who is out here doing Fight Pits ? lol

[silk thicket]

eh i disagree it gives ppl a risk free way to learn

[restive storm]

we've now had TWO fight pits updates since our last real wildy update 😭

[restive storm]

in what way do the other like 6 minigames not do that though?

[silk thicket]

i've personally seen many people journey from lms into pker

[winged mantle]

@restive storm thoughts on bringing back edge bh if they fixed the "win trading"

[meager flame]

its hard to judge the arena update just because they didnt finish it

[silk thicket]

did we get another minigame?

[restive storm]

no but im saying that them adding one more minigame, like people often suggest, isnt going to help

[pulsar glade]

i said at start why do we need a mini game to explain pking it just keeps people away from wildy lol

[restive storm]

i dont really think it fixes anything, I guess i'd MAYBE do it cuz there'd be overheads? but otherwise I don't see it being worth them taking the time to move it

[winged mantle]

Mm fair

Just wanna know what they could even do to make wildy fun for pkers

[silk thicket]

i think ppl used to brid there

[winged mantle]

Pkers fighting pkers

[meager flame]

they definitely have a large issue with onboarding people into any sort of pvp

[silk thicket]

but other than that idk

[restive storm]

remove pj timer so i can attack pkers again and play w/ friends would be fun

[winged mantle]

There's gotta be something else

[silk thicket]

if u get a few ppl @ me we can hit bh w revs some time

[restive storm]

dont think i can really convince people to come back to the game, to hopefully maybe go out to pk on one world. And if a giant clan comes along we're just done for the night lol

doesnt exactly sound like a fun time

[winged mantle]

I've thought this for leagues - should be the testing ground for main game content before release.

Dmm could be things for maingame pvp

[elfin glade]

I've been thinking that in LMS, players should spawn next to others with similar LMS rank points. The downside to this is that bots would be way more likely to spawn next to another bot, so they can get their 1 kc for a guaranteed point much easier.

[silk thicket]

yh i get tht a lot of ppl that left aren't rly motivated to come back when it's so diff

[meager flame]

i mean we have a whole system setup to use some kind of elo already

they just have to finish the mission lmao

and give people a reason to want to participate

[silk thicket]

its pointless ngl

no one rly cares about elo

i know who i beat i know who i lose to

[elfin glade]

Another idea I had for LMS is to increase the draw distance so bots can't hide as easily.

[silk thicket]

idc about having a number

[meager flame]

the point of the elo is so you dont play people who are way too good for you to learn anything

[silk thicket]

those r when u learn most

record it

watch it back

learn how u got destroyed

[meager flame]

nah theres a point where you're not getting anything out of it if they're too far above your skill level

and its better to play against people that you have a chance with

[silk thicket]

there isn't

trust me

[meager flame]

so you can actually grow

[restive storm]

yeah i dont think anyone interested in pvp actually cares about an elo system... they already know who is good and who isnt

[silk thicket]

i've been there

i've fought some of best pkers when i could hardly click

i've got 1170 videos saved of me fighting (mostly losing)

[elfin glade]

For beginners, I think just the small victory of getting to kill a bot and getting a point for it is more motivating than "Wow, I hope I can be as good as that guy who just destroyed me"

[restive storm]

most my my videos are just me skulltricking the noobs on ferox bridge

[silk thicket]

fighting someone else who is mid doesn't teahc u anything cuz ur mistakes arent punished

and u dont see what makes someone better

[elfin glade]

They can go get destroyed in their second fight of the game, but let them have the first fight on an even footing

[minor whale]

They literally added PJ timer to worlds that didn't have one, I doubt that's ever happening lol

[meager flame]

its really obvious how it helps you get better

[minor whale]

This update

[silk thicket]

thats 90% of lms games anyway

[meager flame]

and its why elo is useful in like every competitive setting its ever been put in

[restive storm]

depressing innit... but i do agree pvp worlds SHOULD be the space that exists in

[tender harness]

why is electric light orchestra good for pvp?

[meager flame]

it basically shows you if you're improving or not and puts you in situations where you have a chance to make mistakes or win

rather than putting you in situations where you're going to get blown out and probably just give up before you can learn enough to do anything about it

[silk thicket]

simply pm the person and ask for help

decentralised teaching

easy

[candid echo]

Suggesting talking to a Pker

[oblique mesa]

the average player can't even get a group for pvm

[meager flame]

yeah that would work if you find someone willing to invest potentially hundreds of hours to train you essentially lmao

[restive storm]

wym we over there daily chatting in pvpcord, nobodys getting mad at ppl for asking advice lol

[meager flame]

but most people aren't going to do that

[silk thicket]

i've only ever seen experienced pker ego on one newbie before and it was cuz the newbie implied the guy was clueless

[meager flame]

they'll just give you some maybe generic advice assuming they reply at all

[silk thicket]

apart from that everyone i met is willing to help others

[meager flame]

and keep taking you to pound town for the next 2 years

[candid echo]

Every pvper I've had the pleasure of interacting with has called me slurs

[silk thicket]

we wanna keep pvp alive

[restive storm]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1465348114033541183 fellas people talk in here daily if you ever want to ask any questions lol

[brisk hill]

Please just remove the escape caves if you’re gonna make them obsolete.
What’s the point of adding things like those caves & agility shortcuts if everything being pitched removes those advantages for the pvmer.
Asinine to believe we will ever get pvp updates when this is the direction

[restive storm]

nobody is flaming each other (except for jokingly w/ friends/acquaintances)

[silk thicket]

#pvp-discussion plenty of ppl happy to help if u want, i legit made the journey from wildy avoider to pvp enjoyer myself and its not as rough as u imagine

[meager flame]

im not even talking about me personally trying to go pk

im just explaining how elo helps noobs

[silk thicket]

ye and im trying to explain why it wouldn't bcos it would give u less exposure to genuinely very good pkers who can help u most

in wildy its no biggie u just freeze log if the guys a sweat anyway

[minor whale]

Except people wanna remove freeze log lmao

[meager flame]

tbf it is dumb

[silk thicket]

wut?

[meager flame]

it just seems normal because that's how osrs is but like

[restive storm]

yeah removing the pj timer solves that problem thankfully

[meager flame]

think about any pvp game you've ever played imagine if you were losing you could just go hide in a corner and log out without penalty

makes no sense lol

[minor whale]

It seems dumb without the context of being able to be immobilized for 20 seconds at a time

[restive storm]

its also like ive said, the main reason why no actual good GP/H can be put in the wildy in singles rn

[minor whale]

Most pvp games that isn't a thing that exists

[meager flame]

usually in games you want like

[silk thicket]

there should be a way to escape if ur down bad, dying is v punishing 🤷 plus there's skill in not letting ur opponent freeze log

[timber drift]

thats pvp vs pking though

theres a diffrence

[meager flame]

resolution and defined winners and losers

[minor whale]

Pretty much every other pvp game, if stuns exist at all they're 1-2 seconds and are broken when taking damage

[silk thicket]

so many minor details in it

[timber drift]

pvp means there's likely intent on both sides to engage in combat

[meager flame]

rather than constant draws because someone figures out how to get out of there

[timber drift]

player killing is just that

[minor whale]

If I'm playing Battlefield I'm not worried that someone is gonna trap me in a cage for 30 seconds
And disengaging from a fight is a thing in like every single pvp gamemode ever

[restive storm]

not me over here goin to get a drink from the fridge in classic wow while i get cheap kidneyed

[minor whale]

So freezelogging makes sense

[meager flame]

honestly the only game i can even think of that has stuns

they're not broken on damage lol

cc usually is though

but stuns are usually how people go for kills

[frank atlas]

Tithefarm big tick delay

btw

[restive storm]

idk, turning the wildy (specifically singles) into solely streamer pking content was just really bad for the game overall, wish theyd realize that and go back on it

[smoky jungle]

Any game that has stuns generally has an ability to also remove stuns or they don't last as long as freezes do

[analog crow]

@ancient ember Actual goated idea for the dog wandering
Pls implement

[smoky jungle]

When can we adobt the dog?

[minor whale]

Diablo, PoE, WoW all have things that are similar to stuns or freezes which are instantly broken on damage
It's pretty common

[meager flame]

wow is the one i was talking about

[minor whale]

I think OSRS is the only game with such long immobilization effects

[timber drift]

new idea rune seeds its just mith seeds that go south so you can get closer to the 30 line or ditch

[meager flame]

stuns usually dont break on damage

[restive storm]

in other games stuns are stuns, you dont like spam heal and fight back thru them lol

[meager flame]

polymorph for example though does

or roots like frost nova

but dying in a stun is pretty much the core experience of arena lol

[restive storm]

cant wait for the scripts to just auto walk with me so they dont matter either and im now down THREE inv slots trying to hit people

[minor whale]

Stuns was the word I was using to just mean incapacitate, if we wanna get technical and compare true stuns then the only similar thing is dspear which does disable doing most things

[meager flame]

ya i get what you mean

[minor whale]

In a game where you can be locked down in a fight, having a way to leave the fight that isn't "survive 2.5 or 5 minutes" is necessary

[verbal hawk]

Why do PvP updates get any sort of priority when no one wants this shit outside of hamflex and streamers?

[meager flame]

this is why i said that runescape was like the first extraction game that i know of

they just didnt realize it

the way they imagine people trying to escape in the wild is like an extraction shooter

[minor whale]

These updates are very minor and mostly just mean pvmers don't have to worry about losing cosmetics in the wildy

[restive storm]

wdym "priority" we aint had an update in like 3 years

even this isnt an update

its like moving random stuff around lol

[meager flame]

tbh i cant believe they dont have an extraction minigame

[analog crow]

They updated the loadouts for minigames
Surely this is a good thing

[restive siren]

19$ membership to get pvp updates, sorry

[meager flame]

they* kinda jumped at the wrong trend with the battle royale take lol

[restive storm]

bro please man not another minigame suggestion... pls dont make me read it 😭

[meager flame]

the extraction stuff fits this game perfectly

[silk thicket]

W update overall imo, uk lms world is packed rn and it’s usually dead at this time

[ashen yarrow]

Wilderness already is extraction minigame

[meager flame]

yeah thats why i said that lmao like

if it were more intentionally designed it would just slot right in easily

[restive storm]

but like instead of another minigame can u just add something to the wilderness? thats what we begging for