game-update

[meager flame]

but if it becomes so common that regular players just laugh and tell you that you bought it or they legitimately dont know if they should like

be impressed or think its cool

then theres a huge problem

this is why jagex should've never allowed boosting for gp to begin with

but they're soft so

[thick beacon]

idt most ppl even know what it takes to become a gm since most ppl have never gotten it. i cant imagine how u could trivlalize that achievement theres just to much

[warm storm]

idk man i would just assume no one is impressed by your account as a general rule

do stuff because you think it's cool

[meager flame]

ya but thats no fun that takes away a whole aspect of like

[tacit wharf]

the fact that i have elite CA's, says something

[meager flame]

seeing someone do or have something cool and wanting to do it yourself eventually

it also leads into tons of degenerate shit and i saw it basically take over wow

so i hate watching jagex just let it happen

[warm storm]

if you wanna make boosting a rule-breaking offence i'm game

[thick beacon]

imo i wish they double downed honestly atleast with some of the challange content like blorva/radiant I wanted it to be more then cosmetic prob hot take

[warm storm]

but changing CAs to awkwardly work around it doesn't seem like the move to me

[true talon]

i agree it should be, but obviously they dont want it enroaching on their progression space

[meager flame]

ya i think this is what should have been happening

[thick beacon]

think its also hard sell cuz of the crappy systems around that content to but ye

[meager flame]

because asking players to play together within reason is fine but maybe a few CAs are a little too silly

like the huge team toa ones lol

but otherwise playing together is good

[warm storm]

to me it's like balancing wildy content around bots. like why are we acknowledging them as a legitimate part of the design

[meager flame]

i think its because people dont like boosting so when they see something that's almost purpose built for it their first reaction is to remove the CA

instead of just saying remove boosting

[thick beacon]

progression space for wenie hut jr yama and rancour from slayer boss. I like both but theres gona be a ton of maggot king and non aspritonal content. but adding some progression for the very few challanges I think would be nice

[meager flame]

i mean i think they mostly settled where they'd comfortable design wise

like the really hard content probably won't give real stat upgrades outside of the like

very rare infernal cape/quiver type of content

because they probably just can't justify more than that

but they still want to make that content so we get kits

[warm storm]

if radiant gave actual benefits and still had the contract system it would be horrible

[thick beacon]

ye obv i would greatly change orb/contract system

[meager flame]

tbh i'd argue its still kind of horrible just because of the contracts lol

it annoys me that they try to like

[thick beacon]

its more principal of rewarding a hard challange and making ppl care about it in progression like inferno/quiver imo

[meager flame]

prevent people from trying fun and difficult content

by putting a cost on it

its crazy to me lol

[warm storm]

yeah, the meta for irons is practicing on an alt and that is so silly

[meager flame]

the whole concept is insane to me even though they get it

they're essentially trying to put a ge value on people's enjoyment of a challenge

so that someone else can profit

[warm storm]

i understand the concept of moving wealth from mid-tier gamers to high-level gamers but there has to be a better way

strike that reverse it

[meager flame]

its legit a moment where they tried to remove fun so that the gp/hr would look a little better

i also think its just such a small attempt at redistributing wealth that it just doesn't work

so really they're just being annoying

like we make so much gp now that the gap between people doing the meta money makers are just absolutely gapping people who aren't

which that probably is a long term problem but they're not fixing it with contracts or orbs lol

[thick beacon]

imo for past notable amount of years best gph has always been pretty acessbile maybe not early game standards

but nex toa and now doom are like insane and pretty early for being top dog money makers

[meager flame]

ya its not that its too hard to do its about the gulf between spending all of your time doing that

and the regular guy just trying to play the game

[thick beacon]

toa nex are out but doom is basically same early enough spot

[meager flame]

so the random billybob that wanted to work on getting like some cool item logs into osrs in 2026 and sees some wild number that they'd probably never get close to getting

[warm storm]

doom is an interesting one since 1-7 is about half as good as full runs

and those are obviously much easier

[thick beacon]

1-7 is prob still beating out nearly everything else

execpt efficent raids

[meager flame]

i just think its interesting that the gap between doing the correct thing and just playing through a variety of content for fun is

kind of massive

thats probably the biggest problem

not that killing cows should equal doing colo or whatever but like lol

you can get drastically different results from doing similarly placed content progression wise

[thick beacon]

efficent play is always gona be like that sometimes I hope they change it but its just how it is

[warm storm]

you already know the answer to this problem

[meager flame]

thats actually why i play an iron lol

i end up playing my iron the same way i play a main but theres a million more steps for irons which gets you to do a variety of content and thats just more fun to me

in both cases im solving for the efficient way of doing stuff but the extra rules for irons make it more fun

[thick beacon]

I feel like its worse on iron just cuz it now becomes efficient at every content and that answer is tougher and a lot longer. like u really want a tbow before doing certain things etc

cox megascales is prob the worst content ive ever seen in osrs but insanely good

[meager flame]

oh yeah theres some level of insanity you could go to like

now i will only do cox until tbow or whatever

but you can usually find some alternative goal or content that you just wouldn't have ever done

where for a main you can just hard solve it

like when nex was the best money

you just hit the b line to nex and it was over

[warm storm]

the only thing that really comes to mind is nex

[thick beacon]

muspah colo etc cas

[warm storm]

shadow is much more of a locked-until mega, and eye+gaunts helped

[subtle merlin]

really wish they left the bottemless milk bucket at its HA price. its was a nice little gp thing for people starting out.

[meager flame]

i think they honestly changed that for no good reason

[thick beacon]

depending how u approach cox i think u can route tbow for tob pretty well to cox is a huge can of worms in general imo

[meager flame]

one of those things that sounds good and if you actually really think about it there was no reason to do that lol

[warm storm]

ya i doubt the 20k gp every now and then matters

[thick beacon]

and tbow is going to matter even more for tob post seeker arrows

but thats just a choice and route u can make idt theres a right answer really but ppl lean on scy but depending how u approach cox scy does very little

[meager flame]

the things that i think are a litte samey for most irons is mostly the start

like your rush through quest cape

probably getting a bowfa getting to tds now

killing all demons

its pretty structured if you really want to get things

after those though you're kinda free to do a bunch of stuff

thats sort of jagex's fault though they're designing with intention for that

updates like royal titans are a good example

you just really should go get those prayers

[thick beacon]

theres a lot of ppl that wont do cg no matter how efficent or good it is or really drag it out

[true talon]

irons are not the reason content is babyfied and they put easy to obtain items on weak content.

[warm storm]

did you even read the message

[meager flame]

lmao

[thick beacon]

on a main gp is tied to everything but like u cant get bowfa without cg skipping things/efficent is more programmed into iron cuz its so much harder to skip things. atleast imo

[obsidian venture]

If only

[meager flame]

irons are pretty good for identifying absolutely worthless content actually so thats probably helpful for jagex

[thick beacon]

the amount of irons that do moons though

[meager flame]

like if we just hard skip something and never go for the rewards or anything

that tells them everything they need to know about how useful it is

basically means it does nothing and doesn't contribute to the game when that happens lol

[thick beacon]

think the ppl that do that is pretty small regardless. irons will eat things like moons up prob still exicted to see a trident etc. like u can definitely skip things it is optimal but there are times where u cant and are just barred by items

thats when iron is at its worst imo but i think only mrares are rare enough where it can be a problem

pretty easy to 2-3x rate on a lot of items that arent mrares

[warm storm]

the people interested in playing an iron at max efficiency are a very small minority. inefficient but immediately rewarding content like barrows, moons, and moon moths is very popular

[meager flame]

i mean moons is honestly good for the person thats willing to even slightly compromise

because it just at least gives you good str bonus

so its a pretty practical update even if you could in theory just like

spawn in with oathplate basically if you really went crazy

or go get bandos because you know you're going to want to upgrade torva

[trail salmon]

Hey, just spotted that Runite is showing as 92 in the Mining Skill Guide. Presumably an error from today's update?

[ember token]

known issue

[trail salmon]

okay, searched and didn't spot anything immediately. thanks

[zinc galleon]

On one hand that type of content could be seen as poor value on money spent in relation to people getting enjoyment/engagement out of it. On another side though I think they can end up increasing the breadth of the game which accumulates slowly over time to create a massive world of possibilities and potential. That being said i still wish a lot of resources would be put into the wilderness (which some might view as minority content)

[wet smelt]

I have like 20 bottomless buckets in the bank and now I just lost so much money

;-;

[torpid delta]

never going to financially recover from this

[zinc galleon]

-360k

[halcyon delta]

Changing milk bucket high alc from 27k gp to 9k is criminal

[vivid ruin]

Its plenty fair

[wicked moat]

I know this happened last week but why is the sarachnas instance so bad longer respawn time and items despawn

[carmine junco]

Both of them are known issues and will probably be addressed soon

[tough nacelle]

Wow I’m so glad I went 4.2x dry for pet at the start and got to alch all those buckets

[silent flicker]

Damn jagex got me killing this dumb cow 4000 times and screws me cause i dont read the fine print over night. Tyty.

[hearty agate]

Why couldn't we keep the old way of displaying unlocks after leveling up with a toggle. Why did it have to be totally changed

[nocturne solstice]

what do you mean? the flashiness and yellow highlight?

because it is a toggle

[hearty agate]

after leveling up, pressing space to see what you unlocked in the chatbox

now it's just a line in chat, no way to toggle to keep the old way

[nocturne solstice]

Think you just disable the "new-style" and keep the level up pop-up notification?

wait might be level-up guide list to off and pop-up to on

[hearty agate]

that enable new-style lets you choose between showing unlocks in skill guide, or lines in chatbox, but not the old chatbox-space bar clickable text

[nocturne solstice]

Level up chatbox list shows it in the chatbox.

Im doing a quest rn but if I level up ill let you know.

Hmm yeah is just does the pop up congrats not what you've unlocked in the popup menu

[compact flicker]

#game-update message

This was acknowledged, hoping it reverts. I too like seeing what it unlocks

[timber drift]

why is jagex instantly power creeping the sailing fish with this leechfin bs

classic

[warm epoch]

because sailing bad, of course

[mighty mist]

What do yall think about Mage justi from raids 4? Unfortunately that’s as far as my good idea s go lol

[graceful yew]

my initial thoughts were maybe the set could offer bonuses to a not entirely combat skill, like slayer or prayer, making that their niche rather than just the "melee set" or "mage set"

[restive siren]

im still in the camp ele weakness set

alternatively, stab

really dont want to see tank armor

[fallow talon]

Do you guys feel like the megarare has to be a weapon? I always thought it could be cool to see something that isn’t a weapon, jewelry or even a single piece of armour that’s very strong. Or even something like a strong thrall upgrade

[frail plover]

inferno mage tank haters would be in shambles

[obsidian venture]

True

I don’t believe a megarare always has to be a weapon

[frail plover]

idk how you make something that isn't a weapon interesting enough

[graceful yew]

another quick thought on the weapon, could it be something that covers multiple styles but not as well as a dedicated weapon i.e. natures reprisal

[obsidian venture]

But if we are adding stronger weapons, there should be some form of gatekeeping

Or reqs increase

As for standalone, blessings could be tweaked to be more than just prayer. Feros can use an upgrade

[chrome lantern]

My thoughts on the blog:
-Fast weapons are far more interesting and exciting than making every single strong weapon 5t. 5t is very boring.
-Just as the Jagex team promised to address the Shadow before creating new magic upgrades after Doom, the Standard spellbook and elemental magic needs to see the Harmonised nightmare staff addressed before leaning hard into Elemental magic. This also applies with crush. Even after several rounds of buffs, PNM drops are still 3x rarer than they should be and orbs 5x rarer than they should be.
-The Soulreaper axe is nearly useless because it is a “gimmick weapon” and desperately needs a fix in order to sit where it actually belongs under the Scythe. Get rid of stacks and hp mechanics altogether on it. https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1440516066043367495 Venator bow is a much better application of a “gimmick.”
-Magic offhands as a whole need a major buff and magic gear rebalancing didn’t go nearly far enough, especially with offhands and prayers.

[fallow talon]

Jewelry or armour with special changes rather than just a straight up stat increase

[restive siren]

its just hard to make something thats not a weapon feel very impactful. neck is pretty much not an option with rancour being relatively new and a new range neck coming, ring would be a problem with DT2 rings and LB existing, hands doesnt make sense since we just got conflictions, feet we got avernics, back is obviously not an option. one of the armor pieces just feels a bit weird, those being sets feels and looks good

[frail plover]

Magic offhands
oh now maybe that's a megarare idea 🤔 would automatically bar it from combining with shadow since that's a 2h

[graceful yew]

is there a risk of eventually having too many "megarare weapons" such that they arent really megarare anymore? like if we have one for stab, crush, slash, magic, light ranged, heavy ranged, and medium ranged eventually

[fallow talon]

Yeah it’s a fair point, but I think it being a mega rare would be fine to outclass neck or rings considering it’s a mega rate

[chrome lantern]

Elemental tomes, even with Royal Titans having a Take-pages option, are also pretty limiting on using elemental magic to full capacity, from an ironman perspective - https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1444434977637797979 . For context I did math on using my tome of fire on Frost dragons and determined it wasn’t remotely worth considering at the cost (100m gp just for runes to get a full dragon sloop and facilities).

[fallow talon]

Rare* dt2 rings and normal necklaces sit far below bil territory where a megarare would likely sit

[obsidian venture]

Would be interesting to have a 3t mega melee weapon ngl

[frail plover]

what if the megarare was a magic offhand that was excellent for elemental magic/weaknesses. Could also combine well with the armor they are leaning towards

[ember token]

inq immediately spiking from this blog lol

[chrome lantern]

Oh yeah that bring me to my final point. Ffs stop mega-buffing raid drops inside their own raid

[restive siren]

i mean you say it would be fine but it would basically remove any reason to ever kill a dt2 boss, seems kind of lame im gonna be honest

[obsidian venture]

Too soon for rings to be upgraded

[restive siren]

weird, i only bought one

[obsidian venture]

I’m glad that mentioned how useless tob rewards are minus 2 of them

Can sacrifice justi at this point for a new armor set

[chrome lantern]

I discussed this in my post that I linked but I do think it would be good to have a reward that is a “tome of air” by itself (unlimited charges) that you “imbue” with the existing tomes and a certain amount of pages, and get ~20% bonus in that element, or a modifier on enemy weaknesses

[fallow talon]

Wdym? Bowfa is extremely viable, everything under scythe is extremely viable, same with eye of ayak… no reason to think that they wouldn’t be used. They wouldn’t be bis but the next upgrade would be 1b+

[minor whale]

I don't think we need another megarare weapon

There's much more interesting options

Weapons just dilute and devalue the other megas at this point

[obsidian venture]

Down for a mega blessing 😭 with the ability to add effects (this part can be skill gatekept)

[chrome lantern]

For real though this has to be one of the most obnoxious possible things. If we look at ToA, it’s practically an entirely different raid when you get a fang, and again when you get a shadow. These items have more than enough uses outside the raid (by nature of raid reward design objectives) and don’t need to gatekeep actually effectively doing the content. Please don’t explicitly design a weapon for the raid itself.

[fallow talon]

I agree, idk why they feel so strongly that it has to be a weapon

[restive siren]

well yes, bowfa, eye and idk nally or whip are extremely viable because you need them to get the mega (and most other content in the game) in the first place, you dont need dt2 rings to do raids (or any boss) at all

[fallow talon]

No you don’t, you could just buy the megarares lol, it’s the same thing

[frail plover]

there definitely should be a regular tome of air but I think there is space to make a megarare tome as opposed to corrupting the existing tomes. Maybe you could put any tome pages in it as charges

[sturdy zephyr]

A megarare that isnt a weapon will definitel feel like a letdown unless its just massively impactful, and if it is, theres a good change it'll cause imbalances.

Crush is a style thats been lacking for a long time and slash has taken its place in max gear.

If we were to take the masori approach and release a crush armor from the raid and have it upgraded with inquisitor, we could see nightmare profitability rise as well as a good reason to run nightmare again. Would this mean nightmare drop table changes? Possibly but also not a bad thing.

Releasing a crush megarare, to me, would be fantastic. It would take over araxxor/tekton/cerb/nightmare. Making nightmare faster and lowering "hours to completion" the decision then is do we leave the crush weapon as a basic 5t and call it a day - or - do we ad an interesting mechanic such as an attack speed increase. If we added a special mechanic, how would that effect other boss encounters? Maybe poorly considering the need to weapon swap often.

This solves the armor and weapon issue.

For sidegrades we could actually look into a version of turmoil OR a melee overload option. Although im more of a fan of turmoil (longer the prayer stays active, the more damage it gives you to a cap). With turmoil working that way, it would be useless while flicking but stronger than piety if camped.

Any other rewards could be niche uses like they said. Such as venator bow

[vivid ruin]

Megarares should definitely remain as weapons especially due to the fact that we dont want to set the precedent of equiping more than 1 megarare at once (responding to blog).

Unless its an item that boosts none megarares up to megarare spaces (weapons like rapier, inquis mace, etc)

[restive siren]

well as an iron thats obviously not true and as a main you still will do hundreds of hours of other bossing with the lower tier weapons to get the cash to buy a mega. it maybe doesnt kill the dt2 bosses entirely but irons wouldnt touch them ever again and as a main youd probably see half the profitability they currently have max

[sturdy zephyr]

A turmoil prayer may also give scy 1 max hit which will make full torva BIS again at tob and also extend the gap slightly between tbow camp with new arrows & scythe

[restive siren]

prayer mega sounds lame

[sturdy zephyr]

Not a prayer megarare. A prayer filler drop

[restive siren]

ah

[sturdy zephyr]

Like rigour

[austere mulch]

Just give us the Gambit prayer from ruinous prayers as an unlock, please & thank you

[winter hearth]

plus put Gambit back in Destiny 2

unless it's already back, it's been a while

[austere mulch]

You’d still probably take oath tbh

[low cradle]

Raids 4 would be such a perfect opportunity to put the ruinous prayers in

[austere mulch]

The fall off of Destiny needs to be studied 😭😭😭

[tawdry sage]

The virtus magic set sounds like it could go obsolete if the new armor will be side upgrade from ancestral

Thoughts?

[austere mulch]

52 scy has issues at maiden with procs becoming harder to control, and there’s no real meaningful time save over creepy maiden

It’s not enough to give meaningful bloat maxes

Would be alright at Nylo, but not super crazy

Loss in accuracy doesn’t change much at sote outside of variance

Good at xarp

Oath still better than Torva 52 for 1down reds

Truly unfort

[wide steppe]

I feel like a melee mega rare that focuses on smaller npcs could fill a nice niche gap left by scy, make it crush so it overtake scy at crush based 3x3 or larger npcs. Places scy is bis but doesn't really feel "good" as bis.

[modern stag]

Leaving my 2 cents here for the feedback scouring mods who get to do it. I think that no armour set and instead many smaller items fit the theme of an archive in general where different items from Guthix's worship or his followers offerings were left there for us to uncover. Random items from even beyond Gielinor would be cool considering we're going to Vampyrium soon.

[sturdy zephyr]

Not if it was targeted at normal spellbook. But noone uses that spellbook for anything these days.

Maybe itd end up being good at nightmare or something? But the other books are much more fun to use

[obsidian venture]

I’d take a look at fixing the harm and whatnot as well if we are going with an elemental range set

[austere mulch]

On the topic of upgrade scape with inquis tho, I don’t think it’s a bad idea in principle. But I think nightmare needs more attention before building on top of it

[stark dome]

Just do a tankier void knight style set please 🙂

[obsidian venture]

Also if crush based, take a look at nightmare rates again

[chrome lantern]

This is what SRA is already supposed to do but it doesn’t do well because the stacks make it prohibitively difficult to use

[restive sapphire]

truly arcane spirit shield + harm staff are jagex's greatest itemization sins

[sturdy zephyr]

So sad tbh. I miss my full torva set

[obsidian venture]

What if they consumed justi for the new raid. Tob stonks 🆙

Magic offhand is a good shoutout but if anything upgrade the ward f

[sturdy zephyr]

Surely they rework nightmare table before the raid release and make it more reasonable if they went that route.

[obsidian venture]

A 3t melee would be sick

[minor whale]

Surely they rework Shadow like they promised before releasing any new mage gear

[wintry pollen]

Armor idea, combine justi and inqui with a merging stone and give it a little bit more crush stats but not too much

[chrome lantern]

#game-update message
Yeah I said it here above but Nightmare is a huge roadblock of trying to adjust crush and elemental magic. Harm is arguably more constraining on elemental magic than the shadow is on the rest of magic gear

[obsidian venture]

They are

Rebalance in summer

Then maggot boss

[austere mulch]

Also inq can just be buffed on its own and be fine lol

[chrome lantern]

3x+ more common inq/mace/staff drops and 5x+ more common orbs

[austere mulch]

Give the helm 6 str to match oath and it’s good as is

[chrome lantern]

Wild that they never made it base current form but fortifiable with justi tbh, at cost of justi set effect ofc

And yeah I would prefer they eliminated set bonus and just made it str and acc

[restive sapphire]

2020 was a different time
can't let us have too much dmg so they made the armour paper

[obsidian venture]

I’d love to see feros get upgraded

[restive sapphire]

logically ferry gs are the next on the str train

[austere mulch]

I think a second ring slot unlock would be much cooler from a standalone piece of content like inferno

Where it’s an untradeable account upgrade

[sturdy zephyr]

Although true. The monsterous defence of torva and oath just outshines inq like crazy.

Inq is the best looking armor in the game and it just sits there almost useless. If it had some nasty str bonus added then we could see something happening

[restive sapphire]

if they wanna continue upgradescape they could make the raids 4 glove upgrade equal to ferry gs on its own but combine = new bis str glovees

[fickle yarrow]

In regards to the recent post, an interesting idea could be a weapon with ramping attack speed where it starts if slow but get "really" fast as you attack with it, where bosses and things can be balanced around how often you get to consistently attack such as arraxor compared to bosses that might have phases where weapon swaps or long dodge mechanics make it unsuitable for maintaining such high attack speeds.

[obsidian venture]

I mentioned above and while it odd, I’d love to see a blessing upgrade

[fickle yarrow]

(sorry for copying from general chat, haven't used this discord much,)

[obsidian venture]

@austere mulch raid could have an upgrade for the soul flame horn surely 🥰

[sturdy zephyr]

A big issue with ramping attack speed is whether or not the weapon maintains the speed after doing a weapon swap.

If the speed resets, then youre losing a TON of dps at all the bosses that it would be good at

And youd have to balance it around that increased attack speed + the ramp time. It would be a challenge

[austere mulch]

I will beg for soul flame and quiver to work as polled for the rest of my life

And to allow spec tranfer to work with below 100% spec

[wintry pollen]

Merging stone to combine justi and inquis bUt remove set effects and increase base stats

[fickle yarrow]

That's my point, it's wouldn't. But going into boss design where you don't need weapon swaps ect. You could also make it a multi style weapon as well where it becomes about swapping to the right style rather than just gear swaps

[obsidian venture]

@winter hearth only because you responded above 😭

[scenic ibex]

Hope you're well gamer, sending appreciation to the team from the 10hp community. Excited to see the qol teams work with the upcoming gathering qol poll. Would love if nightshade ( and maybe dynamite p 👀) got some more love this time around.

[sharp wedge]

I have been preaching this to all my buddies. I think style specific blessing upgrades could be an interesting take on the “amour set” from Raids 4

[obsidian venture]

A blessing that could have effects for example instead of only prayer

[austere mulch]

Getting two raid amour sets + an armor set from nightmare (which needs to be addressed on its own before anything is build on it) definitely sounds less than ideal lol

[fickle yarrow]

Oh for sure, but reading the post in the same way the scythe and tbow can be tuned for certain bosses, how much you have to swap/stack loss downtime for certain mechanics is a way to balance bosses in how good it is at any particular boss.

[obsidian venture]

@fickle yarrow ramp up effects sounds good on paper but it delivered a dogshit item, the SRA. Not opposed to weapons like that but they need to fix the sra first before introducing something similar

[fickle yarrow]

Fair criticism.

[sturdy zephyr]

Although this is true if you were to design new bosses around it, i think the weapon would be better suited to solve the current lack of crush options rather than create future ones

[chrome lantern]

Support it now

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1440516066043367495

[sturdy zephyr]

Dont get me wrong, i love the idea of a ramp effect and i even more so love the idea of a 3tick megarare. The viability is a huge issue for sure

[fickle yarrow]

Here's my view of the soul reaper axe is that the ramp effect is not impactful enough compared to the base weapon

And it's hard to notice

Whereas attack speed gets insanely powerful and is massively noticeable

And since it's meant to be a mega rare, that gives it a far bigger power budget

Also the attack speed can ramp the ramping effect as well, unlike soul reaper axe which has a linear ramp time and linear ramp effect.

[restive sapphire]

i feel like weapons that get better but you have to have it equipped gets in the way of spec

[sturdy zephyr]

Something like
hit -> 5t -> hit -> 4t -> hit -> 3t -> hit -> 3t

[chrome lantern]

What about a weapon that has zero cooldown but only attacks once per click

[fickle yarrow]

I was legitimately thinking start 6 but get down to two tick, it's a mega rare. Make it fun 😊

[chrome lantern]

(jk)

[wintry pollen]

We dont design around irons

[sturdy zephyr]

It sounds mad cool but id wonder how it would stand dps wise and if it would be worth sinking time into devolping since youd balance almost the whole thing around the 3t damage

[obsidian venture]

Wishlist for me would be: Megarare: 3t melee or crush (should fix inq)

Armor set: don’t see a point atm but if they want to do elemental, then they need to address the harm

Random stuff: an upgrade to the ward f, soul flame horn and or ralos. Upgrade to a blessing and or feros

[fickle yarrow]

The other thing is that at super fast tick rate you then create interesting scenarios of "do I tank the mechanic that takes say 5ticks to dodge" to maximize DPS or do I dodge.

[restive sapphire]

random shit i throw at the wall
megarare is a fast attacking ranged/melee weapon
armor set = ranged sidegrade for light/heavy weapons
ferry g powercreep
new prayers like upgraded redemption/min hit prayer/intensify
if there are blessings they should do unique effects imo

[fickle yarrow]

I think it's a mega rare with a lot of potential but will end up with a much higher skill expression than say the scythe does

[restive sapphire]

that's exactly what i want
5t weapons you inherently can miss more ticks

[gaunt minnow]

Elemental mage gear would be such a crap raids reward

[restive sapphire]

but with faster weapons you can't afford to do so

[fickle yarrow]

Start 6/7tick ramping down to two ticks is my suggestion, outside that leave it for the balance team to decide

Out if interest how many people are using specs mid kill with a scythe?

[gaunt minnow]

Everyone?

[restive sapphire]

that's how you start pogtank

[fickle yarrow]

Because I imagine most of it would be defense dropping specs.

Or support buff specs like a sgs

[chrome lantern]

DPS specs are probably the most used specs with a scythe, no?

[obsidian venture]

Well you don’t need to claw start

Can just scythe on the side and gz in cycle

Would say def reducing is

But also the amount of bosses I’m using vw/claws ye

Honestly slept on but buff volatile

[timid wasp]

To any Jagex design team member reading this: PNM is dead content irrelevant for most account progressions (this is painfully true after oathplate but was arguably true before yama). Stop trying to support PNM after gate keeping PNM behind crush gear that comes from the same content just to make a 6 minute fight a 5.5 minute fight which only even applies for people who can't afford a scythe. Yama doesn't work that way. Doom doesn't work that way. Either rework PNM from the ground up to make it more like yama or move on entirely. Do not make content for raids 4 just so it will be bis at PNM. That makes zero sense.

[chrome lantern]

I guess I’m just thinking that like 40% of ToB is DPS specs, then plenty of stuff is just raw dps specs outside

But yeah CoX obviously defense specs too

[obsidian venture]

Wouldn’t say pnm is dead content

It gets plenty of activity. It just has a shit drop table

[chrome lantern]

PNM is very good content held back by the fact it’s irrelevant to progression

[timid wasp]

^

[chrome lantern]

And has inane rates

[obsidian venture]

Yama should have its ttc increased

[timid wasp]

ty said it better than "dead content"

[winter hearth]

I think a lot of people have holdovers on PNM and haven't done much of it since we removed a whole phase and it had its second round of loot increase, but it could still probably have a shorter time to complete

[burnt stratus]

How about a new prayer scroll as a 2,5% upgrade to piety as a new raid reward

[winter hearth]

coupled with the loot that it drops being especially niche in the current game it's a bit of a recipe for being left-behind, which is tough because it's (in my opinion) one of the best-designed solo boss encounters in the game

[chrome lantern]

I have done hundreds of PNM and it is absolutely completely a waste of time, before and after changes to phases and drop rates

[timid wasp]

fixed

[marble stream]

PNM is a fire boss

[obsidian venture]

That’s fine yeah

[chrome lantern]

The fact that orbs were explicitly called “flex items,” even if it was rescinded, clearly isn’t actually changed given how absurdly rare they are

[marble stream]

People hate on it because there's no reason to do it rn, but that can be solved with new shit

orb drop rate are sus tho i'll give you that

[inner pelican]

as someone who hasn't been around for a raids proposal before, the blog just reads like it's suffocating under self-imposed restrictions. the idea that there HAS to be an armor set, and a key jingling megarare, and a pile of other useful weapons

if iterating is as hard as they're making it sound, something has to give, no?

[gaunt minnow]

Does that mean just forcing people to go to pnm for inq?

Don’t think that’s a good idea at all

[chrome lantern]

It goes beyond “no reason to do it” - even if niche the armor still has uses. The drop rates are just insane even if you made the gear more relevant.

[marble stream]

if you dont want inq dont go get it

[timid wasp]

this is a good point

^ not the discussion

[chrome lantern]

I don’t, because it’s easy to see that if it were actually more relevant then its rates would be adjusted

Also because I don’t have an imbued heart and that item has a strangehold on an entire combat style

[weary coral]

My Raids 4 armor idea:

I agree that a full set of armor might not have a great place in the meta without being too niche or stepping on the toes of other recent armor sets.

I love the idea of a "mismatched" armor set, and given the theme of the raid, I feel like there's one very appropriate answer here: Elite Void Helmets

Instead of one armor set, we get three helmet additions that can be attached to the existing void helmets. Along with the Elite top/legs from the diaries, these enhanced helmets would buff the set bonuses of void even further.

Melee could have some sort of flat armor based on your lowest defensive style, ranged could have some sort of fang like damage clamping effect, and mage could have some sort of "damage normalization" across multi hit or target spells

[chrome lantern]

Forgotten brews are a joke and are even more disgusting at nightmare

[restive siren]

i mean its not like you need to suddenly grind inq if raids 4 is crush weak, plenty of crush bosses where scythe (on slash) just wins already

[marble stream]

they should remove the melee debuff from forgotten brews tbh

[inner pelican]

i'm also a little baffled they're this deep into making the raid's bosses and flavor and don't even know what the rewards are besides some mildly promising ideas

[obsidian venture]

It’s stands the test of time boss wise and I do hope future bosses can replicate

[restive sapphire]

honstly in terms of consumables
this is a good time to put a guthix rest upgrade

[timid wasp]

let me put crystal dust in my guthix rests jagex PLEASE

[inner pelican]

i'd have figured you'd only make a guthix themed raid if you had some badass, balance or nature themed rewards in mind

[tough nacelle]

my main issue with the crush raid proposal is we have no viable alternatives to inquis mace. it would feel a bit weird that the only viable wep in the raid comes from the raid. This is giving me TOA vibes with how fang / shadow were basically required. As much as id like a crush based mega rare, what happens next? A heavy/light mega rare for ranged? a Stab mega rare? an elemental mega rare? It doesnt feel right to insert a mega rare when the rest of the design space hasnt been explored at all with crush atm

[timid wasp]

please let me spike my tea 😭

[chrome lantern]

That way they can hurt you while they heal you

[timid wasp]

[tough nacelle]

ofc TOA has fixed this issue now with the new gem/belles folley, but I just think the crush space is already lacking. Tossing in a megarare here feels like itll be shadow pre eye all over again

[winter hearth]

admittedly we were too slow to improve Keris as an entry-level into TOA, but I don't think saying 'Crush is great here' means 'the megarare is the only good weapon', even stuff like the boppers would go really nicely in TOB if you swapped NPC slash/crush def around

It's also just a solid excuse to start fleshing out that space and give people a north star for progression - mostly just a philosophical difference as to whether you introduce the reward progression first with nowhere to use it, or you introduce the use-cases first and then flesh out the progression (notwithstanding PNM having a unique set of issues)

[restive siren]

crush raid is completely fine but i have to agree that the "the main reward of having done x content for 500 hours is to be able to do x content a bit faster" is a bit old

[tough nacelle]

Thats fair, im not opposed to multiple style megarares, but I think it should be distinct from the 5 tick megas we have now

[marble stream]

tbh maybe the play is to remove the mace from nm and put it somewhere else at a better rate

nm table is hella bloated anyway

[restive siren]

just swap inq and justi

[timid wasp]

ya pnm table lookin like a raid in and of itself

[restive siren]

solved

[gaunt minnow]

Is there a reason why the mega rare has to be the best option at the raid? It seems like it’s restricting the design space without adding any value. By the time most people land that mega rare they’re coming to the end of their time at the content anyway

[tough nacelle]

I think Pnm is a seperate issue

[ionic grotto]

Mega Rare should be something based on the Sunlight Spear. A 5 tick, 2-handed, spear that is enhanced by your Prayer stat. No reason to do a Crush Mega Rare when we technically already have two. The Elder Maul which properly speaking is a Mega Rare, and the Scythe which has a Crush style.

[chrome lantern]

Nightmare had even more polled rewards. It was supposed to have a bis tome too

[marble stream]

honestly just harm and the armour would be more than enough for pnm

[chrome lantern]

Back then things actually ever failed polls though

[marble stream]

so many lessons learned there in terms of what happens when the pendulum swings too far in the other direction from the zulrah/vork drop table era

[graceful agate]

I’d strongly be in favour of a heavy ranged megarare - especially if it was one-handed (since that would give more rewards space for interesting shields) - Zaryte Xbow lives in a weird space where because it has such a strong spec, it kinda feels like it ‘can’t’ be the best mainhand option at heavy-ranged weak content too often or it creeps into ‘mega power’ levels itself.

A strong, slow hitting ranged megarare would be awesome, and gives space for new boss designs to be created with higher magic levels to give Tbow space back where it shines.

[tough nacelle]

a mega should be a weapon, no ifs or buts about it. Should every raid have a mega? Part of me says yes. Youd have to lower the drop rate of other gear from said raid significantly to offset the lack of a mega / keep time to completion similar

[winter hearth]

if we make a cool heavy ranged weapon I'd really like to make a cool, impactful ballista

[marble stream]

ballisa megarare with gem javelins that have new effects would be so much more fire than a boring ass crush wep

[winter hearth]

ballistae are so sick

[ionic grotto]

Sunlight Spear is the answer. Just take the spec off but incorporate the Prayer stat boosting your DPS output into it as a passive effect.

[tough nacelle]

skilling mega rares have been shown to not be that interesting when it comes down to it

so please dont consider this

[ionic grotto]

Yeah it has to be a weapon, but there should be an effort made not to step on or powercreep an existing one if possible, and the most viable option for doing so is a stab Mega Rare.

[marble stream]

we already have the stab mega rare it's just not so mega rare

[tough nacelle]

I think a crush specific mega could be very interesting, but id be curious how it would fit into existing content

[ionic grotto]

Fang is too common and too cheap to even be talked about in this way lol

We can add something above it

[graceful agate]

I’d love an arbalest - something which takes a long time to reload (especially with one hand), but can be fired over your shield (and imagine how cool the animation for that could be)

[tough nacelle]

considering crush weps havnt been required at all so far

[marble stream]

fang is strong as fuck

[neon gate]

Ancestral side grade gear treadmill very wow esqe

Worrying blog

[marble stream]

they just fucked up with its drop rate

[neon gate]

Inq mace is already the crush megarare

And harm is the elemental megarare

This blog would make sense if nightmare didn't exist

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah I’d really hate if it’s an elemental mage gear set

So boring

[neon gate]

But it feels like whoever wrote it just isn't aware nightmare exists and competes with all of this

[inner pelican]

as a newer guy, the only megarare that's really capture my imagination is the scythe. it has visual AND mechanical presence that i think a ballista could get close to

[restive siren]

sidegrades are the exact opposite of wow gear progression wdym. what kinda armor would you prefer?

[neon gate]

I don't like oath plate either same issue

[ionic grotto]

@winter hearth I can give you the idea for the Mega Rare and the armour set right now:

-Mega Rare based on the Sunlight spear, no spec, but incorporate the Prayer stat boosting your DPS output into it still as a passive effect

-Armour set is Mage robes, not BiS over Ancestral, but BiS when using elemental spells, basically the normal spellbook equivalent to what Virtus is for Ancients.

[neon gate]

They're going to release elemental magic content to justify this

[ionic grotto]

Yes

[neon gate]

Anc isn't good enough you need new eleslop

Anc should be good enough

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah I think everyone hates the idea tbh

We already have anc…

[graceful agate]

I think they’re cautious of ‘prayer as a balancing factor’ since Divine in RS2 showed how easy that was to manage

[ionic grotto]

Anc is already OP when you're using any meta Mage weapon which are almost all powered staves.

[gaunt minnow]

From a raid!!!

[winter hearth]

it's kinda split, but equally we're just not super convinced by any armour set at the moment

[chrome lantern]

Very true

[neon gate]

Void armor upgrade kit imo

[restive siren]

not really, melee has different sets for different styles, virtus already exists, no reason why an elemental armor set or heavy/light range sets couldnt exist

[neon gate]

To tier 70 or something

[marble stream]

nah fuck upgrading void

[restive siren]

void armor is so lame

hell nah

[neon gate]

Guthix related, it's an armor set, it not power creep

People would actually use it

Even though it doesn't beat anc or torva

[marble stream]

its either insane everywhere or shit everywhere, tribid armour is a minefield

[ionic grotto]

You could make a case for doing new BiS Mage robes. Ancestral is 9 years old by this point, Bandos and Armadyl were 8 years old when we got Torva and Masori. So the argument can be made that it's time for something above Ancestral, it can't stay BiS forever.

[timid wasp]

that might help newbies try tob

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah but none of them come from a raid…….

[winter hearth]

yeah I've seen a fair few hybrid/tribrid armour set suggestions, perhaps not specifically related to Void but still - it's interesting space where the interesting case is more, power from saving invent space

[neon gate]

Void is the dps armor vs 0 def

[gaunt minnow]

Hybrid armour set could be cool

[ionic grotto]

Crystal should've been hybrid armour tbh

[marble stream]

they dont make 0 def shit anymore for a reason

[ionic grotto]

Why it doesn't enhance the Saeldor/Chally in anyway is mind boggling

[winter hearth]

we did have a stint of making a bunch of stuff low def because Scythe was kinda mid tbf

[marble stream]

void and demonbane being bis at moka has really fucked progression

[inner pelican]

i just don't think we should be beholden to what a whopping three raids over a decade of shifting design philosophy has done

such as armor for the sake of it

[restive siren]

dont really see that as relevant, some bis things come from a raid, some dont, i really dont care. the one unique thing raids have is a mega, everything else is just fluff that could drop from any old boss and nothing would change

[neon gate]

Upgraded veng to compete with thralls or encourage sbs would also be super cool

[chrome lantern]

You think the chally should hit higher and more accurately than it already does?

[neon gate]

Newgens don't realize this but we used to take just veng into raids

[ionic grotto]

If you're using the full Crystal set sure

[chrome lantern]

You’re just saying people should be using a 4-way spec switch for crystal

[marble stream]

true but scy scales super well with str bonus which makes void bad with it tbf

[graceful agate]

Has anyone considered a magic set which boosts thrall damage (and potentially grasp damage, would be cool for those spells to have a niche) - but which has low enough base stats to be worse than Ancestral with shadow? (So if using shadow, it would be at best a sidegrade to ancestral with the buffed thralls, but gives an interesting option that’s not based on powered staves or elemental magic)

[ionic grotto]

You mean like they already do with Bowfa?

[winter hearth]

no

thralls were a mistake (in my opinion)

[marble stream]

thralls already busted

[frail plover]

Would be cool to make chally 5 tick speed if wearing the set instead

[chrome lantern]

Yes for one combat style. Because it’s balanced.

[graceful agate]

I feel like Nightmare creates inherent problems for both the Elemental Spell and Crush reward spaces

[neon gate]

I think the benefit is that void kits can be a sort of low level relatively common reward that impacts midgame progression, but even endgame players will be able to use void in some situations. It's good for everybody

[ionic grotto]

Thralls are just "Summoning but not really".

[weary coral]

Armor should be 3 helmet upgrades for the elite void set that gives some new and powerful set effects

[neon gate]

And it's thematic

[north vessel]

Thralls are just "my dps is shit lemme fix"

[neon gate]

Noobs use new void everywhere pre bandos or crystal, endgame still takes new void to tob

[winter hearth]

Homogenising Magic for a 'click a button and gain 0.625 DPS passively for free' spell is something that I think we'd do differently if we could turn back the clock, but probably don't want to lean further into empowering

[neon gate]

Or megascales

[graceful agate]

Since essentially any armour set that makes elemental spells too good instantly turns harm staff into a pseudo-mega

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah I would prefer that to an elemental set that has like 1.5 uses out of the 100 bosses we have

[north vessel]

Used it to learn chambers. Easy switches and decent dps.

[neon gate]

Madlad move would be to just disable thralls entirely in raid 4

[marble stream]

i do agree its thematic but i think void is strong enoug hwhere it is

[neon gate]

Just do it

[ionic grotto]

@winter hearth for the armour set either just go straight up new BiS Mage because Ancestral is nearly a decade old and that's the standard timeframe before you powercreep an old set. Bandos and Armadyl were BiS for 8 years before Torva and Masori came out.

Or alternatively, if you guys wanna wait a little longer to do Ancestral because of the issues with Magic like Shadow etc. you could do an elemental robe set that massively buffs elemental spells like what Virtus does for Ancients.

[marble stream]

even after void range got nerfed

[winter hearth]

think this feels too contrived to be interesting, better to just design encounters in a way that other stuff shines - like Araxxor giving you a reason to use Veng etc.

[tough nacelle]

hybrid armor set is definitely the coolest idea in theory but it runs the risk of being too strong and dominating all other sets or being too weak and being useless so the price tanks. I think a hybrid armour set could come from other content

[gaunt minnow]

Isn’t it wierd to have an ancestral upgrade come from a raid where ancestral is already a reward from another raid?

[tough nacelle]

it could turn into the same feeling of pulling an arcane or justi set

[ionic grotto]

The alternative being that it comes from not a raid

[neon gate]

I think a common drop that makes veng 100% or even 125% in pvm, perm account unlock, would help push this a lot

The thread of the raid

[winter hearth]

I'd love an upgraded Veng

[graceful agate]

Hot take, but I honestly think the Shadow rework needs to be nailed down before any further work goes into the Magic design space, as how a reworked Shadow might operate is such a huge shadow (ha) over it.

[weary coral]

void is like "hybrid but has some extra hoops to jump through" which is cool. costs inv slots + swap (easy)

[winter hearth]

I miss the good old days of bringing Veng to Zulrah 🙁

[neon gate]

Realistically if you aren't on sbs it's never better to veng over thrall

Thrall is too good

[north vessel]

125% veng in pvm would just be "get hit more for dps" and im kinda a fan.

[neon gate]

Exactly!

[ionic grotto]

Which is why I said if they'd rather not do any messing with BiS Mage, they can always do elemental robes which won't interact with Shadow at all.

[austere mulch]

Group veng would be nuclear 😶‍🌫️ prob little over the edge as far as balancing goes tho lol

[neon gate]

Thrall power crept veng as the throwaway magic spell you'd be on

Veng needs parity

[north vessel]

Veng cooldown decrease upgrade 👀

[frail plover]

I don’t think that’s a hot take at all. Didn’t jagex promise exactly that a long time ago?

[ionic grotto]

Double Veng scroll like Yama's double Death Charge scroll.

[signal hawk]

Has anyone suggested a guthixian maguffin that can be used to merge inquisitor and justiciar from the new raid? Keeping the effects of both would make it "balanced" armor

[marble stream]

double charge venge

[ionic grotto]

Each cast becomes 2x Veng instead

[north vessel]

Just 15 sec cool down works too. Double veng in pvp would be mad.

[neon gate]

I'd pay 100m for the Scroll of Guthixian Vengeance to make my venges do 125% in pvm

[austere mulch]

Spec transfer only working with 100% spec is a huge miss. You can get so much good team gameplay simply by letting it transfer with less

[gaunt minnow]

Noooooooo

[neon gate]

I'd also pay 100m for the trinket if fairies from dmm

[marble stream]

cool idea tbf but I think it'd work better from some frem-adjacent content in the future not a raid

[signal hawk]

why

[gaunt minnow]

In fact most reactions I’ve seen are people begging for that not to happen

[graceful agate]

I don’t think it was a hard promise - and we’re here discussing magic design space for raids 4 not far off a year on from Doom’s release (and the ‘yes we’ll rework shadow’ decision)

[gaunt minnow]

Because people don’t wanna feel forced to go to pnm

[signal hawk]

Dumb reason lol

[neon gate]

I'd love to see upgraded veng proposed in a blog I think it'd do well

[ionic grotto]

Shadow rework absolutely should come before TFA because at the moment the Shadow's very existence seems to be limiting potential reward space when a raid should have something like that be wide open for all possibilities.

[neon gate]

Guthix is balance to veng makes sense

[marble stream]

i think thats a stretch

but tbf i feel like the theming is kinda a non-issue

[austere mulch]

Valid reason

1. Inq deserves to just be buffed on its own
2. Nm needs dramatically addressed before building on top of it
3. Raid set from one raid + item from another raid + [1] and [2]

= pile of shit

[marble stream]

actually guthix is a skull and venge is a skull it works perfectly

i take it all back

[ionic grotto]

NM becomes instantly more relevant if they do elemental mage robes because then you'll have a legitimate reason to go get a Harm staff.

[signal hawk]

This is a fair enough point, whining about nm isn't (in my opinion)

[ionic grotto]

And idk something about a Guthix raid just feels like it would sit well with elemental mage robes.

[zenith pike]

it's called trains and dinosaurs

[north vessel]

I think mage as a whole has very little room for upgrades even without shadow being considered, the addition of the eye and the confliction gauntlets in the same update was an already insane pair imo. Add that to the way magic damage scales on charged staffs and you have the eye, being an absolute monster.

[marble stream]

i dont hate the idea of the elemental robes, but elements dont feel integrated enough rn for me to imagine them being good

[signal hawk]

What if this raid introduces a three tick melee wep with some stats to outcompete ham/swift blade/etc

[scenic ibex]

How about the addition of disruption shield to lunars from pre eoc?

[marble stream]

i have no objection in principle to not taking shadow everwhere

[ionic grotto]

But they would be if they had a dedicated robe set that was massively increasing the damage output.

[graceful agate]

I mean, there's also the implied 'new bis mage cape from an inferno/colosseum level challenge at some point'

[ionic grotto]

That's the thing about upgrades is they can make things that aren't meta become meta lol

[marble stream]

well they need that and they also need monsters where theyre legit good

[shut moon]

Just give a singular upgrade material from Ezekiel to fortify inquistor so it's defensive stats are in line with oathplate and it's crush bonus gets a small improvement (maybe 2.5%)

[marble stream]

other than frost dragons

[ionic grotto]

Mage Inferno/Colo strongly implied to be next year imo

[north vessel]

Absolutely, furthering the ability of the shadow, and the eye.

[austere mulch]

Reg book also has far less pvm utility than the others so the dps would need to be massive to justify taking it

[marble stream]

my hot magic take is that charged staves were a mistake

[ionic grotto]

Cape upgrades are typically minor upgrades, we're talking 2-3% Mage dmg increase max which isn't an issue with anything but Shadow which is why Shadow needs a rework lol

[austere mulch]

Tough spot to be in

[neon gate]

Exactly

It's so good

[ionic grotto]

Absolutely, powered stave meta needs to be checked, and an elemental robe set would help do that.

[neon gate]

The animation would be the Guthix skull

[marble stream]

casting venge and getting the skull with dreads

fire

[graceful agate]

I do agree honestly, especially since they feel genuinely bad to use pre-99 mage (both on damage scaling and for xp)

[signal hawk]

Honestly I don't know why its taken this long to give inq the masori treatment. Base version stays in the game with lower def req so those limited builds can keep using it as is but mains can use the fortified version as they please

[north vessel]

If the shadow wasnt already an issue, they added the 1h 3t version that out performs it in certain places.

[ionic grotto]

Trueee, I do love the Ayak though it feels so nice to use at PNM

[marble stream]

my other hot take is that shadow is the worst megarare and people think its better than it is

[austere mulch]

Buffed elementals aren’t competing against charged staves. It’s competing against charged staves AND the other spellbook utilities on top ( aoe freeze/heal , dc/tralls, etc)

[scenic ibex]

They are more like nerfed dreadnips

[ionic grotto]

Also true

[north vessel]

Eye of ayak with (f) ward and max is insane and no one uses it because "mah shadow"

[graceful agate]

Oh yeah, the 'oh shadow is so broken' rhetoric is just pushed by a few high-profile players that hate the idea of having a megarare disrupting existing boss metas (imagine that, shocking.)

[ionic grotto]

I'm aware, which is why the elemental robes would be massively buffing elemental staves to a similar degree that Ancients are buffed by Virtus.

[proven bear]

i'd like to suggest, maybe not as a megarare, but maybe something that upgrades the aquanite hopper to be more relevant/compete with buckler stat-wise as a ranged offhand. maybe even combine it with the buckler as well? idk

i'd say maybe you could keep the double shot proc chance the same but make it so the second shot doesn't roll accuracy again or have a reduced bolt proc chance. a lock-on effect where, as long as you're on the same target for X ticks where you immediately shoot another bolt without resetting your attack timer could be cool as well. nowadays you're not camping a crossbow in an extended encounter, a lot of the time people just use zcb as a spec weapon. hell i think it could even be a niche item for pvp if the lock-on timer isn't reset if you use a melee or magic mainhand

||i assume that automatons would be involved to some degree, so thematically i think it could work||

[gaunt minnow]

Well shadow is so broken….

Which is why they’re doing a rebalance in a couple months

[austere mulch]

It’d have to be well over that imo to actually compete, which is the problem

Even if it make harm same dps as shadow, it still loses

[ionic grotto]

Not necessarily, because unlike Ancients, you can turn normal spells to 4t with Harm, further amp specific elemental spells with their respective tomes, specifically the tome of fire when using searing pages to enhance fire spells even further.

[shut moon]

Shadow was in a good spot but people like gnomonkey, for example, overstate how OP it is, which is what i hated the most about confliction gauntlets. They catered to gnomobots and now shadow misses out on gauntlet passive. Now it feels that shadow is left behind while tbow and scythe reap the rewards of the new upgrades added/being added to the game.

[austere mulch]

And harm is also basically a hard req lol

[ionic grotto]

Fire Surge is like one good powercreep from being genuinely very good.

[graceful agate]

Shadow was only 'broken' compared to the rest of magic pre-Ayak. The fact that Eye is better in some cases now shows how easy to overtake Shadow was.

[kind surge]

shadow is broken in the sense that it forces every other option to be horrible because of how it scales

[austere mulch]

Can’t make regular spells same dps as shadow without harm bc then harm nukes

[gaunt minnow]

Don’t agree at all

[kind surge]

eye is also only as good as it is rn because confliction gauntlets exist

[gaunt minnow]

Again, which is why they’re doing a magic rework

[signal hawk]

Since balance elemental is a thing that uses elements, maybe this raid unlocks elemental "thralls". Would that make sense to put them on the standard spellbook? Basically they would function same as current thralls but would take elemental weaknesses into effect

[kind surge]

without conflictions passive, eye will be a lot worse

[austere mulch]

Harm is part of the problem

Bc that’s the top end

[gaunt minnow]

Shadow is still incredible

[austere mulch]

Everything below it is 20% worse at a minimum

[ionic grotto]

Then release a new staff that also buffs elemental spells along with the raid.

Make it so Harm isn't the best option or at least not the only option.

[north vessel]

Eye is just mage blowpipe, but odds are if you have an eye and not a shadow you probably dont have max mage to make it insane without conflictions.

[kind surge]

tbf yeah they will also have to address harm if they wanna buff up elemental spells (I hope they do, it's the most interesting option)

[marble stream]

elemental shit needs too many compromises is my main issue. you need: to be on standards, to have a tome, to have a harm/dhw, and potentially now this new set?

[austere mulch]

There’s space here, yeah

[marble stream]

it has to be really fucking good to overcome that

[kind surge]

it's a worse mage blowpipe because magic damage increases percent-wise, not flat like how it is for ranged gear

[ionic grotto]

In my opinion and this is just speculation but I feel like the raid possibly hints at the staff reward

The Fractured Archive

The Fractured Staff of Armadyl?

[marble stream]

vote no to rs3 slop

[ionic grotto]

Idk that seems too much of a coincidence

[north vessel]

If all that plus a new set out performs shadow and thrall, id use it.

[kind surge]

fsoa isn't a guthixian item, it's an elder artefact though

and it's also associated with armadyl since he used it himself

[ionic grotto]

It doesn't need to be Guthixian in nature lol, it just has to have some relevance to the Gods.

[kind surge]

ig they can confiscate it

[inner herald]

What do yall think about a shield megarare that's bis for mage, melee, and range?

[ionic grotto]

Multiple Gods have used it

Including Guthix

[graceful agate]

Shadow is essentially storm of armadyl anyway

[kind surge]

but idk if we need a mage mega rn

[zenith pike]

death.

[marble stream]

nah SoA was broken because of the min hit

[ionic grotto]

Wouldn't necessarily be the Mega

[ionic grotto]

But it could be

[marble stream]

it was like a 4t fang without the reduced max

[kind surge]

confliction + eye is already close to mega tier

[ionic grotto]

Yeah so this staff could be like a 1-handed 5 tick Mage weapon, think more like the Fang and less like the Mega Rare of the raid.

[north vessel]

I suggested a hybrid style short ranged range mega in another channel and got ignored.

[graceful agate]

I think they've pretty much ruled it out. I'm strongly team arbalest/ballista as crush is an awkward design space for a mega right now.

[ionic grotto]

5-tick but buffs elemental spells enough to compete with the Harm's 4-tick cast

[icy grove]

If they go with a crush-based megarare, they should really consider a crush-based ring as one of the other rewards.

[kind surge]

pretty interesting one, it would also make javelins actually relevant

[ionic grotto]

Rings typically come from other types of content and are often grouped together (DKs, Wildy bosses, DT2, etc.)

[north vessel]

The tyrannical ring exists?

[icy grove]

The lightbearer would like to have a word.

[ionic grotto]

DT2 upgraded all the DKs rings so if you're talking about an upgrade to the Tyrannical ring it would likely be lumped in with a Treasonous and Gods ring upgrade.

[ionic grotto]

Sure but you're talking about upgrading an existing ring here, not releasing a brand new one.

The Tyrannical ring exists and would be the basis for the upgrade just like DKs->DT2 rings.

[sacred oracle]

I like the idea of a crush mega rare because it really is underserved, as we can see by the fact scythe's modest crush style still usually makes it bis where crush is good

[ionic grotto]

Steps on the Scythe too much when that's not at all necessary

[sacred oracle]

It would take scythe out of being bis at places where it's puzzling it's bis at all. I like it

[ionic grotto]

Better to do a stab Mega Rare as that doesn't pose any threat to overshadowing an existing Mega Rare.

[sacred oracle]

Like, having a tiny crush bonus shouldn't make what's essentially a slash weapon bis where a crush weapon could be

[icy grove]

I'm not talking about updating an existing ring... Tyrannical ring is pretty dead content. Idc if it remains dead content. There are ways to make it a viable reward without just being +20 crush +6 melee strength.

[sacred oracle]

It's kind of the fang problem, where fang had slash, before it was nerfed

[kind surge]

I don't think scythe should also be the crush bis imo, I think a melee crush mega would fit fine

[sacred oracle]

I'm okay with reducing scythe's dominance a bit to give a crush megarare room

[ionic grotto]

I don't think it should be either but I also think it's too soon to start stepping on existing Megas.

[finite tapir]

@hard axle

[north vessel]

My thinking is a 'meteor hammer' style ranged mega, 3 tile range, based on crush bonus and strength bonus, like a short ranged atlatl.

[ionic grotto]

By Raids 5 or Raids 6 that will become unavoidable but for now it's still avoidable.

[tacit wharf]

tell me another mega that is BIS at 2 styles

weaknesses*

[ionic grotto]

Raids 4 is still too soon to start overlapping Mega Rares or making them compete with each other.

[kind surge]

I don't think scythe losing its rank in crush weapon bis will be that bad, we did just get oathplate that heavily buffs scythe for slash

and especially if it loses its bis in crush to an actual crush megarare

[graceful agate]

I'd say that Raids 5 is the right place for a crush mega, with an update in the meantime to fix the inquisitor's armour / phosani 'issue' (perhaps an Avernic Treads style situation, releasing a good melee armour set, which becomes BiS crush when you stick an Inq set into it)

[ionic grotto]

^

So true

[sacred oracle]

Also I like that it would give Jagex direction to make more crush bosses over time to give a crush megarare more stuff to do, similarly to how scythe was in a lul for a while until more bosses for it were made (any buy-at-400m-scythe knowers?)

[north vessel]

The scythe being bis crush is kinda memes anyway.

[gaunt minnow]

Shadow is bis everywhere mage is used. Other than if you’re hard required to use something else (freezes or multiple enemies)

[marble stream]

Ye I'd be in favour of crush later and some sorta heavy range shit now, like the idea of gem-tipped javs with a new set of effects

[kind surge]

I mean at least you don't scythe literally everywhere you use melee

[north vessel]

Eye of ayak trumps it in multiple use cases.

[kind surge]

but you use shadow everywhere you use magic

[ionic grotto]

Stab Mega Rare. Based on the Sunlight Spear.

[gaunt minnow]

Where other than nylos (which I mentioned) and baba puzzle (which I mentioned)

[north vessel]

Just anywhere crush or slash is used.

[graceful agate]

I was thinking about this - part of the problem of gem-tipped bolts right now is the mismatch in balance between their effects

[ionic grotto]

Doesn't threaten any existing Mega Rares and would only powercreep Fang enough to take away it's BiS status which it doesn't deserve since it's so cheap and so common.

[north vessel]

Anywhere with a damage cap, zulrah for instance.

Or anywhere you have to hit quickly.

[gaunt minnow]

So nowhere

Got it

[kind surge]

also if we do get a dedicated crush mega, I think it's fine to keep the crush style and accuracy on scythe

[marble stream]

yeah rubys are just king rn, but a new set, probably with a tighter set of options rather than for every gem, could go hard

[graceful agate]

why not cut out the middleman - introduce a new ranged mega that just fires the gems at the enemy directly ( /s (mostly) )

[kind surge]

no reason to nerf it

[marble stream]

im on board

but only if it only fires uncut gems

[ionic grotto]

Enchanted bolts probably need to be addressed/reworked at some point to make some of the other bolts feel better so that it's not just ZCB ruby spec everywhere.

Also since Tbow is about to get a massive buff with seeker arrows, I think crossbows/bolts will need similar love given to them down the road so they can compete.

[graceful agate]

Yeah, I mentioned this earlier in my Arbalest mega proposal - the problem with heavy ranged currently is that its best spec weapon is also just its best weapon (in 95% of scenarios)

[ionic grotto]

True but the actual number of use cases for heavy ammo is slim at the moment.

[graceful hornet]

Some reward ideas for TFA:

• Raid slayer helms (maybe also introduce raid slayer tasks?)
• Raid graceful recolors (could be added for all raids)
• A glove equivalent to treads (bis all styles)
• A necklace equivalent to treads (bis all styles - made max by adding other items)
• A ring equivalent to treads (bis all styles - made max by adding other items)

[graceful agate]

but a heavy ranged mega which pushed ZCB firmly into 'this is a spec weapon' territory would actually open the design space up again

[finite tapir]

seeker arrows are hardly a "massive buff" lol

[ionic grotto]

These are awful ideas I can't lie and sugarcoat it lol, sorry

[austere mulch]

Ayak has use cases where it outperforms shadow, but shadow do go kinda crazy

[ionic grotto]

Somebody hasn't looked at DPS calcs and it shows. Tbow is going to be straight up BiS for Nex and Verzik for example.

[ionic grotto]

And also kills the ZCB and Nex which I'm not in support of.

[graceful agate]

In the nicest way possible did you just come here from RS3?

[kind surge]

those are league items, not rs3 stuff

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah that’s the problem with shadow, they have to add places where it’s not bis otherwise it’s just bis everywhere you mage

[graceful agate]

ZCB will always have a niche as the ranged damage spec - and I think they can open up its usefulness if it isn't also the best heavy ranged mainhand

[kind surge]

definitely no to avernic treads-esque items for those slots though

[ionic grotto]

Hell it's even BiS at a lot of things you wouldn't normally otherwise Mage lol

[austere mulch]

Your calcs on wrong bc that’s far from accurate. Speaking on verzik specifically

[ionic grotto]

Especially when we're still actively getting glove and necklace upgrades.

[ionic grotto]

They aren't.

[gaunt minnow]

Exactly! And people saying shadows not that good anymore ….. ??????????

Are we played the same game!?

[austere mulch]

They are. It’s nowhere near BIS at verzik

They are BIS at Maiden

[obsidian venture]

Pnm in some cases, zulrah, kraken to name a few

[finite tapir]

wow an average increase of 0.08 dph

crazy

[ionic grotto]

Redo your calcs bud idk what else to tell you

[austere mulch]

I’ll put 5b on it if you’d like

[thick beacon]

for all the ppl saying shadow is unbeatable (prior to ayak) they found a a random magic wep that can even beat it

[austere mulch]

Say yes and I’ll get the numbers now

[obsidian venture]

If it’s against TM you’re probably 100% wrong ngl

Just letting you know

[kind surge]

I mean seeker arrows only increase the floor of your damage

surely it can't be that massive of a buff

[frail plover]

I think an avernic ring could only not be broken if it was the original frem rings combined and not the dt2 rings. Would be an interesting tribrid/hybrid option

[austere mulch]

You could give tbow 10 max hits and it’d still be worse than whip on verz

[graceful agate]

Just please don't let it anywhere near the chat log (looking at you, Brimstone ring)

[north vessel]

Just make the brimstone ring imbuable at that point.

[austere mulch]

Also it’s not the arrows that make it BIS at maiden, it’s the amulet

[north vessel]

I hate it for this reason alone.

[obsidian venture]

Arrows were calced wrong from the blog

[finite tapir]

assuming best case scenario for seeker arrows where you have a max hit of 4

currently avg hit is 2.2, seeker arrows bring that up to an avg hit of 3.2

thats if you have a max hit of 4.

[obsidian venture]

I even thought so. But they explained how they actually worked so it’s far less impactful

[ionic grotto]

That's just the Brimstone ring though, at least as far as the non-imbued versions of the rings.

[obsidian venture]

If they worked as initially intended, rune seeker arrows would be better than current d arrows

Which is crazy

[thick beacon]

accuracy i still feel is insane and the strongest part

[finite tapir]

and it gets worse and worse depending on max hit

[north vessel]

Imbued brimstone would be exactly what he said.

[obsidian venture]

But with how they distribute it’s very minimal

[ionic grotto]

Correct

[north vessel]

The arrows are min max at best imo.

[graceful agate]

It's a shame Masori is the most recent raids armour set, as I think there's genuinely interesting ranged design space for light/medium/heavy specific ranged armour

[finite tapir]

with a max hit of 60 you go from 30.0164 to 30.0983

[thick beacon]

was it really that strong before wtf

[frail plover]

Basically yeah. I think an all combined dt2 ring would just be too broken to be main game

[thick beacon]

thats beating like 12ranged str of creep but im guessing ur facotring amulet as well still absurd gap

[north vessel]

The way they pitched them at first was insane.

[austere mulch]

Ye they were nasty lmao

[marble stream]

they shouldnt combine any more slots than boots

[graceful agate]

Min hit which pushes the whole hit distribution up is incredibly impactful

[austere mulch]

At least that interpretation of them

[marble stream]

8 way switches are fine, at least with boots you dont havbe to 9 way

[finite tapir]

depends

[thick beacon]

is current itteration beating out darrows with amethyst ik at tob 0 defense but nearly everywhere else there is defense

[north vessel]

8 ways dont break inventory layout ❤️

[ionic grotto]

I think a glove slot combination could work in like 5ish years down the line, but definitely not fresh off upgrades like Zaryte vambs and Conflictions.

[kind surge]

if your max hit is 70 it won't push the average damage up that much

[restive sapphire]

i posted this in the blog but we need to standardize what "min hits" mean
bc if we are to settle that "min hits" are like seeker arrows where all hits below min hits become the min hits it would be unviable as sidegrades bc it's such a low payoff and they're only suitable as upgrades on top of the current bis

but if "min hits" roll between the min and max hits that's more sidegrade potential bc i can imagine situations where i would give up max hits for more consistency

[finite tapir]

the "1 min hit" currently is just max(1, randominc($damage));

i.e. 0 -> 1, not that you roll 1 to max

[north vessel]

Anything that deletes 0s as the min hit is broken.

[kind surge]

hitting 0 means you miss the accuracy check

[obsidian venture]

Would it be weird to have an untradeable drop from raids 4, that can only be used/equipped if anc pieces were consumed.

So would be new bis mage but unlike treads you can’t equip off the get go. You would need to sacrifice anc to use.

Wouldn’t nuke anc value and irons would still need to do raids 1. Just spitballing but only way I currently see them introducing a new bis armor set for a current style

[restive sapphire]

it used to be 0 to max and ppl i think didn't want it to turn into roll 1 to max

[finite tapir]

max hit of 60 -> avg hit 30. new system where 0s are set to 1 is an avg hit of 30.01639

[frail plover]

Requiring raids 1 item to use raids 4 item feels kinda bad tho

[finite tapir]

tell me how this is broken

[austere mulch]

Think anc works if you can break it down like gwd stuff

Otherwise getting the full set is a tall order lol

[thick beacon]

glad i held like 5ances bottoms still

[obsidian venture]

Sure but it doesn’t necessarily powercreep from the start and it keeps progression in line

[north vessel]

Would buff shadow again and they wont do this.

[obsidian venture]

Which solves the current dilemma

[obsidian venture]

No due to rebalance

[thick beacon]

shadow hasint even been good for a piece of content in a while imo as well

[obsidian venture]

Which we have yet to see

[obsidian venture]

It’s still bis

Ayak approaches it

[north vessel]

Ayak beats it in use cases.

[ionic grotto]

It's still overwhelmingly good for A LOT of content.

[obsidian venture]

And if you look at the examples above I gave, it beats it in like 3-5 places

[thick beacon]

i just meant like scy/tbow show has been on for past years already. shadow getting crept idk is much of a problem

[obsidian venture]

It used to be an issue

But now it isn’t

To the point where I’d even want conf gaunts to work with it

[graceful agate]

I think buffing shadow is fine, as long as it's addressed so they're not buffing shadow more than everything else.

[obsidian venture]

But there is a rebalance happening and I hope they address this, pnm and elemental stuff

[restive sapphire]

if we all accept the death of alternate prayerbooks we can get new prayers right

[finite tapir]

ele weakness will likely stay as a thing only low level accounts interact with

[obsidian venture]

I’m down for new prayers. But not reworks of shit from the past

[finite tapir]

pnm pillars dont count

[ionic grotto]

I still think my idea of a new set of elemental Mage robes + a new elemental Mage staff would fit perfectly. Would help normal spell casting compete with powered staves at more content, and pairing the robes with a new staff gives you a suitable alternative to watering elemental metas down to "have Harm or gg lol"

[restive sapphire]

i agree
like i said prayers i'd want are
min hit prayer
upgraded redemption
intensify (a crap ton of accuracy no strength)

[north vessel]

The comment i was replying to was a direct upgrade from ances to a new bis mage armor. That only buffs shadow

[thick beacon]

it buffs ayak as well

ayak scales good to since its fast wep

[sacred oracle]

Why would we need a new elemental staff? Harmonized nightmare staff already exists and would be quite good.

[finite tapir]

the real problem with ele weakness, especially with its target demographic, is that magic str applies to base max hit and not post-ele

[signal hawk]

Would the average player enjoy or get annoyed aby a new situationally BIS weapon if it required moving to maximizing damage? \

[ionic grotto]

For the exact reasons I said? So that Harm isn't a hard-requirement for everything to do with elemental spells.

[graceful agate]

The problem is that do we let harm staff keep a stranglehold on elemental magic forever?

[restive sapphire]

average players would hate it
i'd use the shit out of it

[finite tapir]

the one demographic which might like an extra max from gear wont get it without at least wave spells

[sacred oracle]

What stranglehold? This is new to me. I hadn't realized anyone considers harm overpowered.

It's rarely even used

[restive sapphire]

basically makes it unsubtle about how osrs is a rhythm game

[sacred oracle]

Has it been constricting elemental space in some way?

[finite tapir]

thats kinda the problem actually

[north vessel]

Harm is only expensive because its bis for anything elemental minus dragons..

[ionic grotto]

You're missing the point. If elemental spells become powerful, unless we also get a new staff, Harm just becomes a hard-requirement to ever properly utilize elemental spells.

[finite tapir]

the gap between harm and non harm is so large and yet harm is so mid

[sacred oracle]

I'm not missing your point, I just don't agree with it.

[graceful agate]

Any time where elemental weaknesses come up, harm suddenly becomes a pseudo-mega. It's only staying at a somewhat reasonable price because elemental weaknesses still aren't really relevant in any true endgame content.

[ionic grotto]

Which is why if Harm did become good, that would be a problem, elemental spells would ONLY be good with Harm.

[thick beacon]

keep in mind they added like 50% dmg to harm with weakneses to

[finite tapir]

yes

[ionic grotto]

You don't have to agree but doing so really just amounts to being wrong lol

[finite tapir]

or you would powercreep harm immensely

which tbh i dont think is a problem

[north vessel]

If we made a elemental set and no staff harm essentially becomes the mega for the set

[finite tapir]

you can just make it do something else

[sacred oracle]

Interesting. I actually think of harm as being quite cheaper than it should be, considering I'm used to it being a far higher cost than it is now.

[ionic grotto]

Exactly which is why I think it makes sense to pair elemental robes with at least one new staff option so that it doesn't hard-require Harm to use the robes properly.

[finite tapir]

imo the 5t -> 4t upgrade from harm should have been from something more accessible especially given the kind of player using ele spells to begin with

[ionic grotto]

Something like a Twinflame staff but scaled for endgame not early game.

[ashen yarrow]

twinflame would be good but it is limited to non surge spells to keep other weapons viable

[ionic grotto]

Also true

[graceful agate]

you have seen that it jumped by 50m today right?

[sacred oracle]

200m to me is just an absolute steal for harm

I remember when it was 1b

[graceful agate]

that's how aware people are that it's the BiS weapon for anything elemental, so it spikes the second jagex mentions elemental weaknesses

[north vessel]

Pair the new set with an upgrade item for twinflame that makes it 4t and you have my vote.

[sacred oracle]

Harm has been sidelined for so long that I'd think people would be happy to have it be relevant again.

It looks like I was out of step in that.

[ionic grotto]

Let's just roll with my idea of releasing the Fractured Staff of Armadyl as an elemental spell staff. Keep it 5-tick but make the hits harder, this separates it and gives niches to both itself and Harm. Harm for when you want faster attacks on something with less defense, FSOA when you want more accurate/higher hits on something with more Defense.

[finite tapir]

anyway [[User:LilyUIM/aelzer/hellkrix_hammer]] hop on

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/User:LilyUIM/aelzer/hellkrix_hammer

[graceful agate]

normally I'm against upgradescape, but twinflame is accessible enough that I'd actually be for this

[ionic grotto]

Doesn't even need to be an upgrade tbh, just something along the same line of thinking.

[north vessel]

I kinda like upgrade scape, keeps things relevant in the market, and aligns with progression for iron modes.

[sacred oracle]

I deeply dislike balancing content around irons, but I do like the idea of using previous items to upgrade newer ones, like Masori+Armadyl

[ionic grotto]

UpgradeScape is fine to a point but they're really pushing it with the Avernic treads requiring you to get like 7 different actual items to combine all into one lol

[sacred oracle]

I thought avernic treads was pretty well handled personally

[graceful agate]

I think the general theme of 'you can go and do the content you want to buy the stuff from the content you'd prefer not to do' is a core part of the mainscape RS experience

[ionic grotto]

The fact that BiS boots require you to do clues, a shit minigame, Slayer, a Slayer boss that drops all the prior BiS boot upgrades, and the new boots themselves, is a little bit ridiculous.

[north vessel]

Treads are bis (i think) with no other items though. They're

[sacred oracle]

It doesn't require you to do that, though. You only have to do that if you're choosing to play a restricted game mode.

That's why I don't really have a problem with it, personally.

[ionic grotto]

I'm fine with treads I don't have an issue with it, but it's an example of how extreme UpgradeScape can get so I would simply caution against making this the standard.

[north vessel]

Treads are better than pegs without pegs added

[finite tapir]

meh i think the individual components of treads/cerb boots are fine, i think the biggest problem is just how common treads are

someone explain to me why ur allowed to farm treads without doing deep delves

[ionic grotto]

Understand that it's okay to just release new BiS and powercreep old BiS, that's okay to do sometimes.

[sharp cave]

Just because its a restricted game mode doesn't mean it has to shit though

[obsidian venture]

I personally would have wanted the upgraded version to be a bit more gatekept

[gaunt minnow]

Same reason you can get a shadow in a 0 invo Toa

[sharp cave]

Like dragon sheets are absurd

[ionic grotto]

How about we bring back DegradeScape? We should have new BiS gear that becomes untradeable the moment you begin to use it in combat and will one day degrade to dust permanently.

Then you don't need UpgradeScape to keep older gear relevant.

[north vessel]

You cant though...

[finite tapir]

0 rl shadow is unviable, no-deeps treads is absolutely viable

[restive sapphire]

endgame updates can't just be for endgamers the billybobs need something as well
which is why invos and lv 1 doom and sunfire splinter farming exists

[frail plover]

You can but it’s incredibly incredibly rare

[gaunt minnow]

Yeah you can, jagex released the numbers and the most purples are coming from 0-300 invo

Which makes no sense imo

[graceful agate]

I think Treads were about as well handled as they could be at that point. They've definitely learnt their lesson not to make a clue reward part of a BiS upgrade path ever again though.

[ionic grotto]

To be fair 150 ToAs are piss easy and anyone doing anything lower is simply meming lol

[finite tapir]

i mean i also think shadow should drop from like 425s minimum but maybe that's for a different day

[gaunt minnow]

Why people are even getting purples before 150 baffles me

[ionic grotto]

Makes perfect sense, that's all 90% of the playerbase can do.

[north vessel]

Misunderstood the mechanic, had a look, my bad.

[frail plover]

It might as well not be possible for how rare it is tho

[finite tapir]

its possible in a very loose sense

[sacred oracle]

I agree that doom uniques are given at too low a delve

6, 7, 8 would be better

8+ would have been fine, too, honestly

But done is done

[north vessel]

Treads being a direct upgrade over pegasians with no ranger boots needed was jagexs way of saying yo my bad to irons.

[finite tapir]

i would have said 6 8 10 personally but w/e

[gaunt minnow]

Starting at 6 for gloves, 7 for ayak and 8 for treads would make sense

[hasty shard]

just give something else 4t and make harm 3t simple as

[sacred oracle]

6 is the first "real" kc in my mind, since that's when pet can first be got

[finite tapir]

i'm going to beat you with a large rubber mallet

[sacred oracle]

So that's why 6, 7, 8 makes sense to me

[hasty shard]

there are worse balanced things ingame and you know this full well

[sacred oracle]

I wouldn't really mind making pet drop from 8+ instead though, along with all the other uniques

But I doubt very much it would be rebalanced at this point

[finite tapir]

yes but i dont have to acknowledge them

have u considered this

[hasty shard]

no...

fuuuck...

[dusty holly]

A ítem that lets you combine 2 mega rares, and you switch between with the special attack giving them extra accuracy or something

[north vessel]

As someone thats only done doom on mobile, i hate this whole outlook lmao.

[finite tapir]

have you seen [[user:lilyuim/exodus/veskrix]] btw

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/User:LilyUIM/exodus/veskrix

[north vessel]

I think the doom drops were handled well imo. Low delves being little to no chance, increasing substantially for deep delves, skill = rewards chance. IMO.

[finite tapir]

you might need a phd to use it but that's okay

[hasty shard]

i have seen veskrix typed enough times does that count

[finite tapir]

yea but it should have started later

[finite tapir]

no

[sacred oracle]

It's an endgame boss, but you don't have to engage with endgame mechanics to get the drops

I don't think that's great

[austere mulch]

Good concept but the rewards are accessible too early

[sacred oracle]

I got boots on delve 4 and felt bad

[north vessel]

I mean, people get imbued hearts from crawling hand superiors.

[austere mulch]

Being able to get all rewards by delve 4 before you even do all mechanics is crazy

[ashen yarrow]

i spooned both ayak and boots before i even managed to learn delve 8

[austere mulch]

I’m one of those 🤣

Apples and oranges imo

[hasty shard]

High Pressure Alloy Smelter (#2693/119)
X Currently Harvestable
Effective Tool : Wrench
Harvest Level : 01-Copper

joke ruined

enter too early

[finite tapir]

imbued heart is not that long to target farm anyway

i guess neither are treads but

[north vessel]

I got a hydra claw on 4kc and felt horrible. Lol.

[finite tapir]

w/e

[hasty shard]

still mad i got beef at 78kc i have shit all to afk now

[ashen yarrow]

its like 80 hour grind to hit imbued heart drop rate with good gear and efficient block lists

[sacred oracle]

Okay time for me to get lunch, and also I'd drifted away from topic of game update anyway

(bad tram)

[hasty shard]

oh this is the game update channel ic

[ionic grotto]

Anyways the Mega Rare should be something inspired by the Sunlight Spear.

[north vessel]

Anyway, fast hitting 1h megas IMO.

Dont care what style.

[ionic grotto]

Nah, 5 tick 2 handed spear with a passive effect where the damage is boosted by your Prayer bonus.

They did mention that they're leaning towards a melee Mega Rare.

[finite tapir]

have you seen the big hammer one

[ionic grotto]

But what if it was more specifically, a Prayer Mega Rare?

[ashen yarrow]

2 tick crush weapon coming, gotta make new bis nylocas weapon

[ionic grotto]

Prayer is a combat skill too so why not tie it into the mega rare?

[warm knoll]

fast weapon speed is interesting but also it's generally less forgiving for missed ticks

[austere mulch]

Can afk sarachnis if you need bloodhound and sarachnis pet

[hasty shard]

[[elder maul]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Elder_maul

[austere mulch]

That’s about to be my go to if I ever get olmlet

[hasty shard]

true i can afk sarach

[north vessel]

If you can afford a mega based around fast hits, you can afford to miss a tick.

[hasty shard]

how do you set that up i want like genuinely no clicks for 20 minutes

[gaunt minnow]

Bro I’ve been In this channel for 10 mins total and seen you post this like 5 times 🤣

[austere mulch]

Blood fury, scythe, instance and spider boots

[ionic grotto]

I've been logged into OSRS for 75 minutes and been here for about as long and maybe mentioned it 5 or 6 times, yes.

But 10 minutes is absolutely untrue lol

[austere mulch]

And auto retaliate ofc

[gaunt minnow]

I meant 10 mins total haha but I’ve been coming and going

[austere mulch]

Piety off if you want to afk longer

[north vessel]

M134 minigun mega when.

https://tenor.com/view/bh187-terminator-thats-me-suits-you-thats-totally-you-gif-19225202

D arrows at .5t speed

[sturdy wolf]

raids 7 reward surely

[round lintel]

New Raids 4 megarare Leon's Infinite RPG

[gaunt minnow]

Raids 4 megarare tactical nuke

[remote ruin]

raids 4 megarare, a red bandana head slot item that nullifies ammo consumption

[obsidian venture]

What in the brokie

[gaunt minnow]

Bro wants raids 4 megarare to be an upgraded Ava’s

[neon gate]

Stop being poor

It offends me

[ionic grotto]

How much you wanna bet he doesn't even have a Quiver

[remote ruin]

I see my mgs joke goes unseen

[gaunt minnow]

Sry I only play RuneScape

[signal hawk]

End game double hit crush weapon? Call em Torich's Hammers

does increased damage on insects and/or shelled creatures

[remote ruin]

I mean, you're right; I don't have quiver, I'm bad at the game and only have assembler haha

[ionic grotto]

Oof, sorry for calling you out like that bud

[granite beacon]

i kinda feel like I'd like to see another megarare that interacts with an enemies stats like tbow (magic level) or scythe (size), it could be interestesting to see a melee weapon that interacts with elemental weakness in some way

[meager flame]

tbh i think i agree with their logic for the crush mega but

[ionic grotto]

How about my Sunlight spear idea though

[meager flame]

i dont agree with them for the armor set

this is their chance to right their wrong with justi and make things like oathplate (rightfully) midgame

it should be a melee armor set

[signal hawk]

if scy hits more on larger npcs, what if this is a wep that works better on smaller npcs? Inverse relationship means they shouldnt step on each other's toes

[ionic grotto]

A spear that's enhanced by your Prayer bonus so you'd use Prayer gear instead of standard meta DPS gear.

[warm knoll]

cool things that I'd like would be:
a guthix godsword as a spec weapon, no clue what, probably not dogsword
void armour upgrades that specialize the pieces for certain styles, like elemental magic for example

[meager flame]

also yeah i think a guthix godsword would be cool as like a common drop

some item so you can make it yourself

so it makes sense thematically

[granite beacon]

void upgrades do sound kinda dope, make it slightly worse than current bis armor but less overall swaps

[meager flame]

void upgrades are probably impossible in a way

at least for range

void range is already the best if you drop def low enough

[granite beacon]

that sounds neat but i feel like it'd work itself into too much of a niche to be useful in existing content

[signal hawk]

What if void just gets defensive/prayer upgrades but retain equivalent damage boosts? Would be nice qol without changing any metas.

[ionic grotto]

I disagree, I think it would at least become BiS anywhere stab is used so it would powercreep Fang out of being BiS which is fine since a 15m common raid loot shouldn't be BiS anyways.

[warm knoll]

I think that getting some extra defense and having a boost into elemental magic with some magic % so it's hybrid for mage

so it can be mage + range/melee, but when going for Masori/Oathplate/Torva it'd still get outclassed there

[granite beacon]

so a megarare thats bis at toa, vorkath, and small teams nex?

i cant think of anywhere else you use stab regularly

[ionic grotto]

Spears have more than just a stab style

[warm knoll]

when being sweaty, it won't be ideal, but it'd have some use

[ionic grotto]

They typically have all 3 styles so it could carve itself a niche out at other places.

Kinda like the Scythe does with crush. This spear could also serve as a pseudo-crush mega rare in much the same way.

[gaunt minnow]

I think something that played around with an NPCs defensive stats could be cool and fill a gap

[granite beacon]

i feel like i'd rather just have an actual crush megarare than a jack of all trades melee wep

[gaunt minnow]

Maybe like it always rolls off the NPCs lowest def stat and has certain bonuses depending on the other stats

[ionic grotto]

Stab mega rare > crush mega rare

Why step on the Scythe if you don't have to?

[obsidian venture]

If sweaty, a towel is your bestfriend 🤝

[warm knoll]

The main thing about a crush mega rare is that I'd think "why doesn't elder maul feel this way"

[ionic grotto]

^

Another point to consider is the maul is technically the crush mega rare lol

[granite beacon]

because eldermaul is a spec weapon

[warm knoll]

I'd rather a stab mega rare, it's not competing against the other armour sets

[ionic grotto]

It's just not the traditional 5 tick no spec wep Mega Rare like the other 3 are.

[gaunt minnow]

Not by jagex’s definition

[ionic grotto]

Yes by Jagex's definition lol

[gaunt minnow]

Jagex explicitly define only 3 mega rares currently

Shadow scythe and bow

[ionic grotto]

The drop table at CoX that drops Maul/Kodai/Tbow is literally called the mega rare table.

It's where the term was born from

"Mega Rare" comes from the mega rare drop table at CoX

[gaunt minnow]

It used to be yeah

[warm knoll]

it also wasn't a spec weapon

[ionic grotto]

^

[gaunt minnow]

But in recent terms when they refer to mega rare they’re only referring to scythe shadow and tbow

[ionic grotto]

I understand

[granite beacon]

jagex made it very clear with the new crush spec weapon that they want a distinction between good melee weapons that happen to have a spec and good melee spec weapons, a weapon shouldn't have both

[ionic grotto]

I'm saying the maul is still technically a mega rare

And the Scythe is technically also a mega rare that can use crush

[gaunt minnow]

It’s a mega rarity but kinda misleading to consider it equal to scythe shadow bow

[granite beacon]

maul is a megrare but it is a spec weapon, it isnt meant to be mainhanded in a fight

[ionic grotto]

There's no reason to step on Scythe if you don't have to

A Sunlight spear style Mega Rare doesn't really do that since it would primarily be used for stab.

[warm knoll]

they were more referencing how if you make it a mainhand you can't have the same spec weapon ability because then it limits future balance

[ionic grotto]

Even if it does have other styles, they'd be more niche since you'd want to be using Prayer gear to enhance it.

[warm knoll]

you can't power creep when you're driving something to be more broken

[gaunt minnow]

Also doesn’t it seem wierd that Toa was the ‘stab raid’ with fang etc and now we’re releasing a stab mega rare literally the next raid? If we went with your spear suggestion

[ionic grotto]

How is that weird?

[warm knoll]

there was a rapier already

I think that building up into a proper stab mega rare would be good

[gaunt minnow]

Because of what I’ve literally just said lol

Toa was the ‘stab raid’ with a fang

[ionic grotto]

ToA is moreso the Shadow raid

Sorry Mage* raid

[warm knoll]

I think that a guthixian spear could be cool, but most spears are 4t and having it be 5/6t would feel a bit weird

[ionic grotto]

Nope most spears are 5 tick

[gaunt minnow]

It’s only a mage raid once you get shadow

[ionic grotto]

Or at least were

[warm knoll]

and I think slower weapon with bigger numbers is good

[warm knoll]

true thought hastas

[ionic grotto]

It used to be unique that the Zammy spear was the only 4 tick spear

[gaunt minnow]

Up until then mage barely has a use whatsoever

[warm knoll]

oh wait, those are 4t

[ionic grotto]

Sunlight spear Mega Rare would powercreep Fang, yes. That's kinda the point. A 15m common raid loot doesn't deserve to be BiS everywhere you use stab imo

Stab could use a Mega Rare

[gaunt minnow]

That’s moreso an issue of the Toa drop table

[ionic grotto]

And it's the only style they could make it that doesn't compete with or step on another Mega Rare.

[gaunt minnow]

I think it was designed for that exact reason though

[ionic grotto]

Which is far too late to fix, so moot point.

[gaunt minnow]

Disagree

[ionic grotto]

?

[granite beacon]

i feel like i'd rather see more stab-centric combat come out before a stab megarares comes out

[gaunt minnow]

They’ve changed a bunch of tables multiple times

[ionic grotto]

They said the raid would be melee-focused.

So if stab Mega Rare, stab raid makes sense.

[meager flame]

this is probably just not good enough for a raid reward

[gaunt minnow]

They even said in the blog that the Toa drop table is not how they intended