even if you go bolt rag people for your daily points
#game-update
sharp cave
i mean i guess, i just dont think there should be any points for skilling or doing diaries
i really dont see the point if its just leagues lite with pvp sometimes
true talon
no1 wants to log on a pvp game mode and go skill/pvm untill you got the stuff to go pk an then have the game mode be dead.
this DMM was their most active and honestly best one, but it just needs a few more changes.
I think a pvp leagues style is 100% the direction they should persue.
but i wouldnt not lock so much stuff behind having to do a ton of menial shit like clue scrolls or combat tasks/diaries.
sharp cave
but i wouldnt not lock so much stuff behind having to do a ton of menial shit li...
u dont count skilling in dmm as menial?
true talon
if i have 59k points after playing multiple hours daily since release and 39k of it being from logging in for breaches only thats an issue.
true talon
u dont count skilling in dmm as menial?
skilling has a purpose, it unlocks important things for the game mode like high power food/pots
it allows an economy to exist in which those who dont want to pvp can instead of supply
sharp cave
skilling has a purpose, it unlocks important things for the game mode like high ...
uhhhhhhhhhh no?
minor whale
?
sharp cave
i guess if we nerf breaches not to shit out supplies?
true talon
people who get 86 herb for overloads or 85 crafting for black d hide
Well breeches dont shit out supplies
it shits out resources to make supplies
minor whale
Those people were extremely handsomely rewarded early on too
sharp cave
ive not had to buy any food or potions besides overloads
dark jolt
is that cuz you fished
sharp cave
no its cos i picked up like 300 noted sharks per breach
true talon
Anyone who got early overload or cornered the market on like crafting, made absolute bank an swapped it.
that 1 guy made 800m by getting nature and planting celestius trees
to harvest b staffs early
sharp cave
Anyone who got early overload or cornered the market on like crafting, made abso...
can we add point 8. ban swapping?
lament ridge
Chin hunters probably made out with a fortune too
true talon
Chins as well
true talon
can we add point 8. ban swapping?
well you cant ban swapping, because its an incentive to get people to play it to become producers.
ionic tartan
How might a ban on swapping go any better than a DMM's previous ban on muling?
true talon
Its also impossible to police
lament ridge
I think it's a bit sketchy and open to scamming but a very fun and interesting part of it
I love economy shenanigans in osrs
true talon
only way to remove it is disallow trading, but that dont work in a pvp game mode
lament ridge
And I almost exclusively play a UIM lmao
dark jolt
why wouldnt that work in a pvp game mode
true talon
I do think an ironman DMM would be really cool, but they would need astronmically high drop/xp rates to make it possible to reasonably produce certain items
lament ridge
why wouldnt that work in a pvp game mode
A huge part of the playerbase is terrified to go out with a dorgy crossbow worth 3k, how do you think that goes when dying in pvp means you have to grind a boss again to get another drop
dark jolt
thats because dmm doesnt have structure like i said lmao; it really lets us off the leash at the start and says /shrug
lament ridge
The part that makes DMM easier and more open is that you can just get a relatively cheap new set and go out again
What would be an example of structure that helps this?
Don't think I fully understand what you mean with that
dark jolt
well leagues has a massive task list that a player can look at and kind of organize, dmm sets you off into mainscape with some boosts. There's nothing that incentivises me to go get a new gear set; because i dont know what im doing in mainscape. So how am i supposed to know what to go do? It's not very new player friendly.
not explaining myself well either i can see it in rereading
all i care about is will moocow be in leagues? 
lament ridge
well leagues has a massive task list that a player can look at and kind of organ...
That I fully agree with, there's a lot of small rules in pvp in general that makes the gap for new players even bigger.
The problem is, fixing all of that takes time and effort. And the current version of DMM that is mostly scraped together from previous content already gets so many complaints of being "wasted dev time" since a lot of people have such a deep hatred of anything pvp
dark jolt
i dont get the whole "wasted dev time" arguments, if they're working on the game they are working on the game
thats what killed project zanaris 
subtle arch
Dmm was okay at best
People ragging at breaches is what ruined it for me, I already knew I wouldn’t be able to raid because people are camping the banks but the breach raggers (15 mins out of the day) this was the only time you could actually get points except the few safe bosses & skilling
I think raids bank area should be safe but you cannot access the bank to grab anything other than supplies maybe? No direct teleports so you have to run to the entrance would’ve been fine with me
lament ridge
Dmm was okay at best
People ragging at breaches is what ruined it for me, I al...
I wonder what makes the experiences so different because I've been in terrible gear to like ~20 breaches and I've been attacked by another player twice at most
subtle arch
I was in b4 and attacked at every breach 5 minutes in wearing toregs hammers & black dhide (like 400k risk)
I also didn’t even pick up loot to keep my skull low risk
I think maybe my rsn was just easy to type in and they targeted me at ge with ignore list entity hider?
not sure but kind of bs because the breaches feel unplayable without entity hider on
dark jolt
if entity hider would show the attackers 
true talon
thats what killed project zanaris <:sadge:1076561004697227295>
project zanaris was a very stupid idea and would have caused massive damage to the game as a whole.
dark jolt
uh huh
true talon
Whoever thought of a jagex becoming someone who produces their own servers for players to create things using their assets and having the players pay them (much like private servers do) would be a good thing for their game should and probably was fired. while it did offer stuff like private content development for content creators or making your own game modes, it would also fragment the player base drastically.
It would have cost a massive ammount of money to sustain and wouldnt have benefited enough people to be worth the up keep costs
dark jolt
meh is what it is, i doubt it gets revived
tacit wharf
was a good way to get engine work done that they needed, even if it got scrapped
true talon
was a good way to get engine work done that they needed, even if it got scrapped
they can do all of this without the need for private servers lol
dark jolt
It was definitely seen as the friendserver opportunity to me.
tacit wharf
im saying it gave them the chance to put into place engine work that they wanted/needed to help creators (gg) or even their own personal testing of game worlds (probably helps a lot with leagues/dmm) , that otherwise wouldnt of been done
gleaming karma
The eye of ayak notification every 100 charges is the update nobody asked for and nobody wanted.
merry finch
W audio update w music update
dark jolt
w dev
sharp cave
Whoever thought of a jagex becoming someone who produces their own servers for p...
uhhhh idk servers are not that expensive to run?
its not like the were going to dedicate a whole server rack to each customer
i imagine the player limit would have been capped to a low level so they could run many of them parallel on a single machine
bronze kernel
uhhhh idk servers are not that expensive to run?
There was going to be a monthly fee to run one IIRC
hard axle
Next DMM, it's just Yama and max hit is 99 hp with meteros
tiny otter
project zanaris was a very stupid idea and would have caused massive damage to t...
me, thinking about almost every wildy related update be like
meager flame
me, thinking about almost every wildy related update be like
Best I can do is a hallway for bots and players with no relevant requirements
It’s sad how they don’t even get offered any real content
It’s all like that too it’s kind of S tier work evasion when it comes to the wild
true talon
They have to seperate pvp gear from pvm gear or else they will never be able to power creep both
they have an entire system being the ancient armor sets an they just dont use them for pvp only outside of bh
they could tack damage reduction on them in pvp combat
"your damage is increased by x % and reduced by x% when in combat with a player"
They would have to design an entire pvp eco system of gear though as anyone in normal gear would be taking a massive ammount of extra damage.
tacit pendant
Theyve been able to power creep fine thus far
minor whale
Yeah
Making new gear ludicrously expensive does a solid job of not letting it be used in pvp
meager flame
i just think its sad that their content is almost always garbage
like
rarely but sometimes they will get content that had actual effort put into it like bh
but most of the time they give shit like
hey what if we just spawned some zombies that do nothing somewhere that already exists in the wild and like
the loot was too good
lmao its crazy
they have 0 passion for any of that stuff like
even for pve updates that just don't matter
oblique mesa
Wrathmaw seemed like it had passion even if the timegate stuff wasn't great
meager flame
you get like a quest and npcs with lore and new models and a new location etc
but as soon as its in the wild they just dont care
minor whale
BH had effort put in but 0 feedback from pvpers
People who used to love bh pretty uniformly think the latest version is the worst
Double deathing and entering the portal to go grab your loot but you get spawned on the opposite side of the map while your opponent spawns 13 tiles away from it is just not good design
But it is very sad they both never talk to pvpers about what updates are wanted and they even more rarely put effort into updates for them
And Reddit just screeches any time anyone mentions pvp
This past week has been solely people talking shit about pvpers and pking in general and unironic "remove the Wildy!!" Posts are getting front page + thousands of upvotes
tiny otter
Yeah
Making new gear ludicrously expensive does a solid job of not letting it be...
that very statement alone sums up pvpers, who dont want equal fights (with equal risk)
tiny otter
and said fights start equalish
tacit wharf
be that in gear, numbers or skill level
tiny otter
dhing, eclipses, zerkers
they literally have copy cat gear
your average pker doesnt want to put up equal risk
tacit wharf
would argue that shit in ge or lumby isnt pvping, its just staking in a labcoat
tiny otter
closer to pvp than anything in the wildy
bar like mage bank (does that even exist anymore?)
tacit wharf
the closest thing is north rev caves riskers or chaos alter
tacit wharf
not those who are killing prayers
meager flame
BH had effort put in but 0 feedback from pvpers
the interesting thing about this is that its probably doing better than almost anything else they've done
minor whale
What are we saying
People take equal fights and equal risk all the time?
PvPers take fights with extremely lopsided risk constantly
To kekkers not you Turkey
minor whale
PvPers take fights where they're risking 40m to fight a guy risking 1m without being 40x better gear
meager flame
they mostly avoided like the really cringe stuff with bots or boosting
minor whale
the interesting thing about this is that its probably doing better than almost a...
Yeah them actually policing it is a solid thing
dreamy fractal
"your damage is increased by x % and reduced by x% when in combat with a player"...
bringing resilience to osrs is diabolical
true talon
bringing resilience to osrs is diabolical
i mean pvp suffers greatly because lack of pvp specific gear
median wing
is cow boss before blood rises
quiet plank
Does anybody else remember the jmods saying they would look into updating the oathplate model?
meager flame
probably wont happen now but yeah
people kind of just accepted it even though it doesn't look good
kinda like avernic treads
severe rune
The volume changes are great, but the master volume doesn't do anything beyond what the individual sliders do that I noticed.
I can turn master volume all the way up, and sound effects or music all the way down, and when I want to turn down master volume to make it even quieter it doesn't work.
Idk if this is bug or intentional but F
upbeat snow
The volume changes are great, but the master volume doesn't do anything beyond w...
works for me without any issues
check ur plugins or something
severe rune
No, it's still persistent on the official client as well.
Turn your master volume all the way up. Turn music all the way down without turning it off. Then turn your master volume down to 10%, it's the exact same as 100%.
rotund dragon
Rune Berserker Shield
Let’s re-poll it! Isn’t doesn’t break any meta, but will bring in a fun niche shield for zerkers.
weary stag
Did the zerk shield get mentioned in a popular reddit post or something?
subtle merlin
wtf, bells folly has 10 stab and 15 slash def...
languid ravine
thats cool, but why does it have -9 crush 
languid ravine
**Rune Berserker Shield**
Let’s re-poll it! Isn’t doesn’t break any meta, but ...
need the big helmets graphic style to go with that
huge helmet and huge shield is epic
lament ridge
thats cool, but why does it have -9 crush <:kekw:997907574034792498>
Can parry stab and slash attacks but would shatter if you try to block a hammer I guess :p
last void
Has anyone noticed there is a much longer pause between songs if you set it to loop?
I use sea shanty 2 to prayer flick and this is ruining me
it's like several minutes between songs
humble hill
audio settings no longer save separately for each user profile(runelite), after yesterdays patch.
last void
that seems like more of a runelite problem than a jagex problem
humble hill
ind, but got sent here
sharp cave
how is it a runelite problem if jagex forced te volume setting to be stored on the character/server rather than client
true talon
After using runious powers in legues and dmm, can we please get them 🙁
raids 4 reward k thanks
lime fog
they failed for a reason... they dont add anything meaningfully other than simply being a few% higher dmg
little to no added depth, its not even really adding choice either since youd pick whatever has the highest dmg in 90% of cases unless they add awful drawbacks like chip dmg again.
true talon
little to no added depth, its not even really adding choice either since youd pi...
those failed, because they were awful. but the ones in leagues and DMM are much better
Like the reduced tick when eating food
lime fog
yeah but they have no drawback so is exclusively an upgrade, which now that i think about it is actually a bit better
as long as they require rigour & augury
on top of whatever new thing is required
torpid delta
they didn't fail, they got axed by jagex after passing
true talon
think they felt they were to much reward for dt2
the other thing failed
that god style prayer stuff
lime fog
didnt they pass an intial poll to look into it, but then didnt pass a final one about the actual proposed prayers?
true talon
they ruinous powers first vision was bad, because of the redemption dps boost and also the recoil effect prayer
also the chip damage on protection prayers
rotund dragon
Came up with a fun berserker style boss. Please check it out and provide some feed back.
lime fog
Came up with a fun berserker style boss. Please check it out and provide some fe...
link doesnt work yet btw, mod approval
rotund dragon
ohh ok, sorry im new to reddit
true talon
Came up with a fun berserker style boss. Please check it out and provide some fe...
this should be posted in game suggestions
lime fog
they ruinous powers first vision was bad, because of the redemption dps boost an...
yeah it was horrible to use in pvm, and simultaneously little to no downside for pking
in general i think that book is jsut free dmg for pkers, and stupid freeze accuracy with the 50% acc prayer
ember token
yeah but they have no drawback so is exclusively an upgrade, which now that i th...
the drawback is higher prayer drain and higher prayer level reqs, plus the downside of not having some more niche prayers/uses, ex: berserker is a worse preserve, purge is a much riskier smite, the protection prayers increased damage taken from the styles you werent praying again (until they removed that for dmm annihilation), and even not having low tier prayers that drain very very little prayer but still provide a dps increase
true talon
They also said they wouldnt be 1 tickable
lime fog
its just going to lead to an even more cancerous meta, all pkers hunting pvmers will run that book, but wont fight another pker since theyd be at a disadvantage vs normals and can still easily freezelog with the 92 prayer accuracy
lime fog
the drawback is higher prayer drain and higher prayer level reqs, plus the downs...
yeah there is some drawback, but its pretty much all minor drawbacks for the "bully pvmer while running from pker"playstyle
also, purge is just better smite, for the sake of smiting at least, the drawback is not that significant in the cases where you would actually use smite most of the time
true talon
the drawback is higher prayer drain and higher prayer level reqs, plus the downs...
the best of them is the lvl 61-62-63 prayers which give 20% range, 20% magic or 20% melee str/atk
i guess they kinda added those with dead eye an mystic vigour
hard axle
they failed for a reason... they dont add anything meaningfully other than simpl...
Their drain rate also sucks ass
People don’t realize it because a lot of folks don’t actually try before saying shit, but RP drains so much faster and it’s a chugging simulator.
lime fog
yeah, which made it even more shit for pvm, but that doesnt matter much in those 1-2 min pk encounters
hard axle
Piety Rig and Aug should be where it caps out in terms of prayer drain 
lime fog
yeah 100% agree on that, its not a fun lever to balance something with
but were getting bad idea simulator again it seems, Manked wants to bring Multi revs back....
"trust me bro, people wont want to lose 100k so they arent going to rag"
shame since, the later half of the concept is all solid imo
"Provide some means for loot in the higher-level caves to automatically move to your inventory/looting bag, letting you focus on your surroundings and any would-be PKers, while also increasing your GP/hr a little further."
This should just be a ethereum bracelet upgrade, like a 50-100k imbue scroll sold at ferox
and bin any mention of multi
true talon
its just a lazy proposal wont have any impact
restive storm
i hate to admit it but it is pretty lazy/boring
true talon
will return multi revs and nothing else will change, less revs in single + means more condensed bots and less revs for normal players
no1 is going to go to multi revs as the bots will be up there an be programmed to turn on anyone not deemed friendly
restive storm
its important though, to recognize that its lazy/boring because pvmers will not allow for anything else
hard axle
but were getting bad idea simulator again it seems, Manked wants to bring Multi ...
He’s being delusional about low level wildy working 
true talon
its important though, to recognize that its lazy/boring because pvmers will not ...
thats not true, pvmers do not care what happens in the wilderness, as long as they arent forced there. (which they arent) unless they are ironmen an they add worthwhile rewards.
hard axle
Nothing should be below 30 wildy line because you can’t balance around teleblock and instantly tping
the older revs were more balanced because they were mostly 30+
restive storm
any changes to the wilderness nowadays must incorporate a method of doing things consistent with how they are now (impossible to die, singles+ version etc) because iit will fail the poll if its anything else
hard axle
You have way more gold farmers now because 10+ revs are below 30 line
restive storm
there also can be no new items, as pvmers will whine theyre "forced" to go there
true talon
any changes to the wilderness nowadays must incorporate a method of doing things...
well they will never address dying unless they address brews in pvp
but yo know the pkers who need to sit 115 hp sipping a brew every time they attack wont like that
hard axle
there also can be no new items, as pvmers will whine theyre "forced" to go there
Fuck them lmao
restive storm
Fuck them lmao
i mean agreed
but jagex doesnt have the stones to say that to them
(anymore, they used to)
restive storm
well they will never address dying unless they address brews in pvp
ya lost me here idk what the problem w/ brews is
true talon
ya lost me here idk what the problem w/ brews is
its the reason no1 can die in singles
restive storm
u realize you can die from 115 hp to a single venge korasi right?
true talon
yes
restive storm
idk how thats a brew problem in that case
restive storm
eh, we invented all thesee issues when we invented the pj timer
thats the source of the current problems
true talon
eh, we invented all thesee issues when we invented the pj timer
no lol.
restive storm
fix one problem, invent 45 more
true talon
we invented all these issues, when we kept power creeping all of the spec weps
lime fog
can you explain how PJ timer is the issue?
restive storm
but the thing is, most people dont view being invincible in the wildy as a bad thing
they like that cuz htey cant die lol
lime fog
because people can freeze log without other people interfering? or is there more going on
because not being able to multi pk in singles seems like a good thing to me at first glance at leas
ionic tartan
If you think a bit further, who are the people that freeze log?
restive storm
because people can freeze log without other people interfering? or is there more...
that, among other issues, it deletes the piece where pkers used to be anything other than apex predators of the food chain etc
true talon
can you explain how PJ timer is the issue?
its not, he wants to fall in with 100% accuracy specs like voidwaker/dbow and spec trade some guy in max
restive storm
pkers used to kill other pkers theyd seen, nowadays you cant really cuz theyre either A attacking a pvmer already, or B just freeeze log on you
restive storm
its not, he wants to fall in with 100% accuracy specs like voidwaker/dbow and sp...
see things like this and you just being incorrect is why pvmers feel the way they do lol
ionic tartan
its not, he wants to fall in with 100% accuracy specs like voidwaker/dbow and sp...
Discussed this already in another thread, but Jagex literally had a spec PJ timer in place in 2018 that they could extend further to prevent spec dumps (https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Stronghold_of_Security,_iOS_Closed_Beta_Launch_and_Ghostly_Robes)
restive storm
the dynamic of teams of pkers fighting each other in singles, which was 90% of the singles action, was totally removed from the game
hard axle
can you explain how PJ timer is the issue?
So before this, singles clan were extremely rare, but the risk was there. It’s the same logic as why you don’t 1b max in deep multi.
The problem is dying in solo with high level gear is super hard, which means pvmers get ragged harder in solo.
Since the change, I’ve definitely seen more well geared folks in singles after the change 
true talon
the dynamic of teams of pkers fighting each other in singles, which was 90% of t...
no spec trading and ganging up on people was removed. single teams can still fight each other, they cant just trade people off.
restive storm
yeah pvmers are now like the PRIMARY focus when wildy pking, because it isnt really feasible to hunt pkers
lime fog
yeah as someone that isnt 100% familiar "teams" & "in singles" does not make sense entirely, but yeah the whole gear up in terminator gear and never fight other pkers thing is basically all i see in rev cave
restive storm
no spec trading and ganging up on people was removed. single teams can still fig...
they removed any reason to do so
why would you run around in a team if you cant participate in anything together lol
its like saying you want to do zulrah, but be able to see your friend next to you killing a different zulrah lol
restive storm
yeah as someone that isnt 100% familiar "teams" & "in singles" does not make sen...
as i said, it isnt really feasible to fight other pkers, cuz theyre attacking another pvmer already, or 2, just gonna freeze log isnta if ur in giga
lime fog
they removed any reason to do so
given 100% power,
How would you fix that without making it so that escaping players is impossible?
tanking someone for more than a few levels without risking another 1-2m in tank gear pretty obscenely hard considering how cheap even mid tier pvp gear like lightbearer & dcb are nowadays
restive storm
anytime i see a giga maxer log in in my world, i instantly bolt a pvmer/bot near me
if its a guy i know is gonna smoke me
restive storm
given 100% power,
How would you fix that without making it so that escaping play...
you shouldnt need to be tanking anyone, you just wait til like 8s on ur freeze timer, barrage them, and click log out
theres nothin they can do lol, "tanking" is easier than its ever been
lime fog
wouldnt removing pj timer prevent that?
restive storm
absolutely
which is why gear was in check back then
and people werent running around in 2b of gear lol
hard axle
no spec trading and ganging up on people was removed. single teams can still fig...
And that’s genuinely bad for pvmers cuz more virtus bowfa pkers than pvmers getting traded.
true talon
And that’s genuinely bad for pvmers cuz more virtus bowfa pkers than pvmers gett...
i agree, but its not fair to solo pkers either.
restive storm
i agree, but its not fair to solo pkers either.
as we've clearly seen, "solo pkers" are a reallllllly small subset of what wildy activity used to be lol
cuz the wildy has been so much more dead than it used to
true talon
as we've clearly seen, "solo pkers" are a reallllllly small subset of what wildy...
any pkers is small subset of what players there are lol
they are all out in bounty hunter
you can walk around the wildy for 1b cash and prob not encounter anyone
long as you avoid rev caves
true talon
thats not the pjer timer
restive storm
it is
true talon
its there is no content worth doing
restive storm
and it isnt really debatable
pking activity is down at least like 85% from what it used to be lol
true talon
wildy agility for example should give insane exp rates...
restive storm
wildy agility for example should give insane exp rates...
skillers wouldnt allow it
true talon
dark crab fishing should be producing a lot of crabs per hour
lime fog
yea, didnt used to really be able to do that
i think part of that is also just how value is perceived.
back then most moneymakers on hte high end were maybe a few mil an hour, now people expect to rake in that much for basic shit and 10m+ for high end stuff
restive storm
wildy cant be EHP
true talon
wildy bosses was crazy good money, before bots sent the voidwaker into the bin
restive storm
i think part of that is also just how value is perceived.
back then most moneym...
this is true too, wildy money makers kinda just suck now lol
true talon
they can fix it by increasing the value of the uniques like the fangs being broken into rev ether giving them a static value
or fixing the rings to be useful
lime fog
wildy cant be EHP
exp wise EHP would be fine, most people just dont want to lose progress (eg. losing half an hours worth of loot)
restive storm
they can fix it by increasing the value of the uniques like the fangs being brok...
IMO i think they wanna do this, but theyre trying to fix the bot problem first
or else like why bother lol
restive storm
exp wise EHP would be fine, most people just dont want to lose progress (eg. los...
EHP would never pass a poll if its in the wildy, people screech everytime its proposed
true talon
if you care of post 99 exp you need to go touch grass
restive storm
dont get me wrong, i actually agree with you on this, but im saying that jagex needs to do these as integrity updates
because people just see wildy=bad rn
true talon
im strong supporter of after 99 you should not care of xp rates and perks. like at 99 slayer i think you should get to choose your slayer task.
why have an entire system were you go kill crawling hands and banshees for aya to get the task you want
hard axle
Nah
restive storm
they prob would never do that cuz itd break like slayer boss loot
hard axle
you were never supposed to be able to pick tasks or reset endlessly
Using that as the justification is dumb
true talon
they prob would never do that cuz itd break like slayer boss loot
? people who want to do those bosses, just aya skip till they get it lol.
restive storm
? people who want to do those bosses, just aya skip till they get it lol.
right but that still takes time
rather than it being instant lol
hard axle
and that’s 20+ minutes on average for a task
true talon
wastes a ton of time
hard axle
shadow wave
If they ever make it so that you can arbitrarily choose slayer tasks they should also remove the slayer helm and reduce all NPC health and defence to match
lime fog
im strong supporter of after 99 you should not care of xp rates and perks. like ...
not choose, but post 99 slayer perks would be incredibly nice
true talon
dunno watching my buddy do aya skipping for heart tasks the last 2 months on his ironman has been brutal
restive storm
dunno watching my buddy do aya skipping for heart tasks the last 2 months on his...
should just deiron and buy one 
imo pointing to irons grinding imbued heart isnt really a big sell for me to break slayer as a whole lol
true talon
should just deiron and buy one <:scronglypirate:1437387302396629012>
no thanks, the game would be a better place if mainscape trade economy and other nonsense didnt exist.
majority of the games problems come from trade and bots
obsidian venture
Sounds like a grind that’s part of the progression. Roughly 10m xp if focusing superior tasks
restive storm
no thanks, the game would be a better place if mainscape trade economy and other...
sounds terrible m8
hard axle
“It’s a waste of time so let me just make it much easier” is such a dumb system.
obsidian venture
no thanks, the game would be a better place if mainscape trade economy and other...
This is very incorrect
restive storm
id just quit
obsidian venture
Game wouldn’t exist without the current economy
restive storm
“It’s a waste of time so let me just make it much easier” is such a dumb system.
somehow every ironman argument breaks down to that tho lol
true talon
i speak from both perspectives, mainscape esp during the sand casino days was dogshit game
obsidian venture
It’s quite literally the fundamental part of RuneScape in general
If you bring up sand casino in a sentence and mention main game, you’re automatically irrelevant
restive storm
i speak from both perspectives, mainscape esp during the sand casino days was do...
thats been gone for like 5+ years man how is that something to point to rn lol
restive storm
yeah just like, dont go to the sand casino?
obsidian venture
Like most mains did not engage with the casino. Only losers and gambling addicts did
hard axle
restive storm
i never had a problem with it cuz i never went there lol
obsidian venture
You were your own issue
true talon
its because it was bad, granted iron scape has added more content to do over the years.
in the past it was like go pk, skull trick, kill revs, stake, do chambers, do tob, go to zulrah with a normal trident and rcb XD
obsidian venture
Don’t blame the rest of the game for your lack of self-control
hard axle
its because it was bad, granted iron scape has added more content to do over the...
Sir… that’s not the normal main
true talon
Sir… that’s not the normal main
10 years ago it was
obsidian venture
Gambling and sand casino was bad but if that’s your man experience, that’s literally your own issue
obsidian venture
10 years ago it also wasn’t
true talon
yes it was
obsidian venture
It never was
hard axle
the average person never visited sand casino
obsidian venture
Don’t make shit up
true talon
name what you did in game besides boss, pk and stake??
hard axle
????
obsidian venture
The avg person why whipping slayer shit
hard axle
Staking was not normal my guy
obsidian venture
10 years ago, skilling was more popular
restive storm
yea staking was very abnormal lol
true talon
Staking was not normal my guy
i didnt say it was
hard axle
the average person was chopping wood and pvming
true talon
i said what else did you do besides boss, pk or stake??
i didnt say all three together
obsidian venture
Or folks that wanted to chuck an arcane
true talon
Clog wasnt a thing yet
obsidian venture
You afked/bankstanded or did gwd with friends
hard axle
i speak from both perspectives, mainscape esp during the sand casino days was do...
Trying to claim this is the experience for all mains is disingenuous
restive storm
so? people still played the game before clog existed LOL
obsidian venture
Don’t project your issues on everyone else
hard axle
(It’s not)
true talon
irons cant even trade
hard axle
RWT doesn’t need to include trade dumbass
restive storm
irons cant even trade
didnt stop them from megascaling/boosting
hard axle
You know this
true talon
Everything i own i went out an beat up the person who drops it XD
true talon
didnt stop them from megascaling/boosting
that bull shit, should be stopped by jagex. but the community cries about mmo or some other non sense gaslighting
hard axle
But yeah, I don’t believe I staked a single time, but we did send our friend to our chuck arcane scrolls
It’s not normal at all
Which is why they removed it
restive storm
that bull shit, should be stopped by jagex. but the community cries about mmo or...
wym its BS it happened all the time LOL as well as buying hardcores etc... we cant act like ironmen werent half of rwt in the game
true talon
Which is why they removed it
it was forced removal due to laws in the UK
they did not remove it, because it was bad XD
online currency and gambling regulations caught up to the online world
hard axle
It wasn’t “forced”, they removed it out of an abundance of caution
To my knowledge, they didn’t get hit with an order
obsidian venture
Brother
true talon
right it was removed as a precaution to gambling regulations starting to be enforced on digital assets
obsidian venture
You do realize that post nex the amount of services irons engaged in surpassed mains
And till this day is still ahead
restive storm
And till this day is still ahead
thats what im sayin idk how people dont get that lol
obsidian venture
Like you can blame mains for existing but you at that point in time were a part of the very problem
Now playing a game mode where a sizable amount are a part of the problem
true talon
well those people are idiots, they are ruining their gameplay expierence of being an iron to cheat to reach a point they dont deserve, minds well be a main tbh.
obsidian venture
Do not try to white knight stuff with useless info
Yes you ruined mainscape for yourself
And project that onto others
true talon
if you boost on an iron or cant handle a grind, then you wont last long anyways
restive storm
iron is literally so easy now adays i dont even see how its very diff from a main tbh lol
restive storm
if you boost on an iron or cant handle a grind, then you wont last long anyways
AGREED in modern days, iron is ungodly easy to the point it isnt fun anymore lol
obsidian venture
I have no respect for irons nowadays unless I know that they did everything themselves
true talon
iron is literally so easy now adays i dont even see how its very diff from a mai...
this is false.
obsidian venture
Which quite frankly isn’t the case
hard axle
well those people are idiots, they are ruining their gameplay expierence of bein...
Buddy, this is what we’re saying. There are ALWAYS idiots. Judging everyone based on the idiots is dumb.
obsidian venture
It’s not false
hard axle
And you keep bringing it up
obsidian venture
The only point he can bring up because he couldn’t get to endgame
true talon
i will say the end game iron is basically a main without dragon arrows
But the progression steps of early/mid and starting raids iron is vastly different than mains.
obsidian venture
Most mains quit before getting good and start irons
Hence why I always say the playerbase plays like they have no hands
Jx is cooking something
ember grove
I have no respect for irons nowadays unless I know that they did everything them...
I have never had respect for irons so you're a step ahead of me here
obsidian venture
Based
true talon
I have never had respect for irons so you're a step ahead of me here
means you dislike people who work hard and dont rely on others
obsidian venture
I game with irons but usually they tend to have more braincells
restive storm
i will say the end game iron is basically a main without dragon arrows
But the p...
its essentialyl like 99% skippable now on irons w/ questing lol
hard axle
means you dislike people who work hard and dont rely on others
Again, with ur logic, because there are some degenerates, you assume the worse and they didn’t do shit themselves
obsidian venture
@finite tapir thoughts on how piss the iron mode is nowadays
restive storm
ironman mode fell off when we stopped having to mine our own pure essence
hard axle
Now that you mention it, always thought it was sus how Tass could grind 20 hours a day 
true talon
Again, with ur logic, because there are some degenerates, you assume the worse a...
no but in a reverse argument you can say a normal account doing things outside of buying it on the GE is out of the norm. irons cant do that they are forced into the grinds they seek to complete. not to say mains cant do the same, but its a choice they have.
hard axle
(Jokeee)
true talon
Now that you mention it, always thought it was sus how Tass could grind 20 hours...
bank stand 20 hours a day lol, i dont get shit done when i login.
obsidian venture
Stop trying to justify what accounts better
And stop chatting like you understand the game and how economy affects it
ember grove
means you dislike people who work hard and dont rely on others
that's not what I said
I don't think being willing to bash your head into content until it spits out a drop is inherently praiseworthy or admirable
it's not horrible or evil either
it's nothing at all
restive storm
u aint gonna sell me on ironmeme mode in the big '26 lol
that game mode has been cooked for like 7 years
obsidian venture
Play to what suits your playstyle and that’s it
true talon
I login we look at content.
Corp
Cox for ancestral
Phosani
Skill
Logout.
obsidian venture
Tryna compare accounts when folks can barely do shit in game is hilarious
Yeah man I clicked the tree
finite tapir
<@139109031498219520> thoughts on how piss the iron mode is nowadays
depends on the question really
true talon
runescape is a journey game not a destiation. sooner you learn that, the better off youll be.
finite tapir
i don't like how much they devalue the gamemode but
restive storm
esp now that clogging is out, ironman mode is legit, the same thing as a clogger, but they added their own secondaries to their unf pots they bought
not rly anything to be interested in imo
finite tapir
a lot of iron goals/progression (mainly everything pre-late-game) is seen as much more significant than they really are
like i've heard many irons refer to the cg grind as tedious or long
obsidian venture
runescape is a journey game not a destiation. sooner you learn that, the better ...
You need a mirror fr
true talon
like i've heard many irons refer to the cg grind as tedious or long
those ones will be culled, they wont make it far
obsidian venture
It’s a journey but I’m going to complain about economy and superior accounts
restive storm
runescape is a journey game not a destiation. sooner you learn that, the better ...
im tryina have a journey in the wildy with my friends man and the pvmers keep railroading the polls
obsidian venture
Yeah make it make sense 🤣
finite tapir
i generally dislike the framing that irons are "self-sufficient and so they're more difficult" or whatever because like
let's just be real for a sec
finite wigeon
Hey, is anyone elses audio settings being synced between desktop and mobile now after the music system update? I don't want my ears to get blown out everytime I log in to the game on PC cause my audio settings are louder on my phone as the sound systems are different.
finite tapir
you are not self-sufficient for as much as you think you are when you say that
a lot of irons tend to have the thought that on an iron you're distinct from a main because you spend less time farming gp for items or whatever
which might be true on a raw time perspective, but it's hardly close to 0
and not trivial in that sense either
restive storm
you are not self-sufficient for *as much* as you think you are when you say that
but i spent a chunk of my 400m cash stack i got from afking slayer, to get the lady to add my herbs to my vials of water i bought in giant packs, and then did the secodnaries MYSELF!
true talon
you are not self-sufficient for *as much* as you think you are when you say that
correct, selfsufficent would mean you produce everything from scratch, sadly this is only sustainable by bots. if you had to get every seed, 2nd, ect yourself it would be miserable, which is why slapped it all on bossing tables.
restive storm
like gz man i also bought 99 herb
finite tapir
i mean herb is a bad example for you to pick
even though mixology completely took a fat shit on iron herblore it is still very distinct from main herblore
restive storm
not in modern day irons it isnt
finite tapir
i would not make that comparison
restive storm
comparing modern irons to older day irons its like literally a meme, even totally excluding mixology
true talon
arrows are prob the only thing you need to create yourself.
finite tapir
herb efficiency is what is screwed over by modern iron standards
true talon
nothing drops arrow shafts or amyethyst
but then again there is tons of rune arrow drops
finite tapir
realistically 99% of irons are so inefficient that they probably do get outperformed by mains by an enormous margin
finite tapir
inefficient
in two ways actually
both that you're wasting redwood logs but also that you just hop worlds for arrow shafts
restive storm
yeah but that sounds awful
true talon
I move at my own pace, idc about being efficient, i care about having fun and playing a game not a spreadsheet lol.
restive storm
when u could just afk for 3 mins and get them for free
thick beacon
I have no respect for irons nowadays unless I know that they did everything them...
just because a lot of irons use services doesint mean everyone does. most ppl prob should rethink playing an iron if they are going that far to do that
finite tapir
you are not fletching the equivalent of 80-90k arrow shafts (minimum, this is a lowball) per hour by doing redwoods
restive storm
but u DO get wc xp
finite tapir
so what
restive storm
we like xp
obsidian venture
just because a lot of irons use services doesint mean everyone does. most ppl pr...
Not everyone does but irons currently still lead in that department
finite tapir
if you routed account properly you wouldn't need to afk redwoods for wc xp
restive storm
yeah but who cares about routing an account "properly" lol
finite tapir
quite a lot of people
obsidian venture
Which is just tragic on its own
true talon
just because a lot of irons use services doesint mean everyone does. most ppl pr...
answer this, since you was recently started an iron.
what was more fun, your max gear main with everything or grinding your iron to the point it might reach your main one day?
thick beacon
ye im not suprised at all that irons cheat more theres more bs u have to go through and ppl cba
restive storm
quite a lot of people
thats deffffinitely a minority of ppl still lol
finite tapir
irons in general are a minority, i don't really see the significance of calling it out
restive storm
the efficient ironmen, are even a very small subset of those
true talon
irons in general are a minority, i don't really see the significance of calling ...
we are 30% of the player base who actively play
restive storm
esp nowadays, iron is a super casual game mode
finite tapir
i mean iron has always been a "casual" gamemode
including hcim and uim
you just have to be willing to put in the time
but, that being said
the time is part of the difficulty
there's a reason a lot of ex-irons de-ironed at some point in their journey
i despise jebrim as a person but he's said something "recently" which i stand by entirely
restive storm
ight im out
thick beacon
answer this, since you was recently started an iron.
what was more fun, your max...
for me I enjoy the journey of the game goals so for me main was out of them at that point. idk what would happen if iron got to that point but I do know way more content will be relevant for me to learn on iron. id prob take break from game at that point since goals would be so low
finite tapir
i wouldn't say playing an iron is mechanically more difficult than a main (unless you go out of your way to do things as they come instead of overgearing for them)
craggy wind
Good time to plug making some new agility methods that are less engaging or making higher engagement more rewarding 🖤
finite tapir
we already have afk agility
no need
it's called barbarian fishing
but i do agree with the latter part
craggy wind
We have barb fishing, POH agility for 55m, or the blast furnace bike thing
thick beacon
i wouldn't say playing an iron is mechanically more difficult than a main (unles...
i think it is because u have to learn more encounters and make do with worse gear on avg
finite tapir
that's your choice to do so, it's not intrinsically more difficult is my point
thick beacon
lot of irons have to make a choice about doing colo without sgs whatnot just as an example
true talon
i think it is because u have to learn more encounters and make do with worse gea...
not just worst gear, but worst consumables and stuff as well.
finite tapir
you can choose to postpone content
thick beacon
well its efficent to do that to
true talon
like on iron you dont access to super combats, you dont got brews or restores early
finite tapir
you can choose to max before pvm if you want, and a few people do so
true talon
uou often dont even got ranging pots
finite tapir
depends on routing
you should already be 70+ herb for song of the elves before midgame anyway
craggy wind
Gear is just not as easily accessible. I agree content isn’t harder, per se, but The same argument people make for no agility updates is the same for irons. “If you don’t like it or it’s too annoying, you don’t have to do it.”
finite tapir
restores aren't that bad
that's not my argument for "no agility updates"
my argument is that people generally just want a flat xp rate increase for 0
true talon
that's not my argument for "no agility updates"
no idea why they are protecting agility, that shit needs to be firemaking exp rated.
craggy wind
I wasn’t referring to you, my apologies for insinuating.
finite tapir
doing an activity you hate for 200 hours instead of 220 hours isn't going to make the activity less painful for you
because you still hate it
i'd rather do content i enjoy for 5,000 hours than content i despise for 50
thick beacon
i'd rather do content i enjoy for 5,000 hours than content i despise for 50
i do think in practice though ppl care about eff
finite tapir
yes
craggy wind
I think it’s terrible content design that the focus required for efficient floor 5 sepulchre is only like 20-30k more xp than ardy rooftops
finite tapir
yes
thick beacon
like i hate cox megascales but I will do it it just is to good
craggy wind
It definitely needs some love
finite tapir
sepulchre should be at least twice as good as ardy, bare minimum
and personally i'd argue maybe even 3x
obsidian venture
I hate cox megas and I won’t do it
craggy wind
My argument is alway at level 90+ at least
finite tapir
but i respect people who put time into mastering the content and don't want to devalue their accomplishments in terms of e.g. 6h logs
craggy wind
I think floor 4-5 should be vastly better. 1-3 can stay the same
thick beacon
well when u have a iron and are actually grinding a bow its diffrent
obsidian venture
No
finite tapir
so i'd rather ardy get nerfed instead of seppy get buffed
thick beacon
easy to say that when ur not the one grinding it
obsidian venture
It makes sense to do them yes
craggy wind
but i respect people who put time into mastering the content and don't want to d...
You can respect that and still want the game to be improved. Who cares that someone suffered a little bit more prior to?
finite tapir
99 agility doesn't take that long anyway
obsidian venture
What suffering
finite tapir
it's not about suffering, it's about putting the time in
craggy wind
I’m suffering, but I have 600k left and I’ll be done lmao
obsidian venture
Unlucky
finite tapir
i'd rather they worked on a floor 6 sepulchre and increase the skill ceiling as well as xp rate
as opposed to just arbitrarily buffing the max xp rate just because you think it's too slow
ember token
102 agility requirement to access floor 6
craggy wind
We gonna agree to disagree on that one 😂
finite tapir
could honestly just scale it down from 10 levels per floor to 8, so 52/60/68/76/84/92 for f1-6 respectively
still sundial
I got 99 agility accidentally just going for each graceful outfit, it's clearly too fast
craggy wind
I honestly can’t even do floor 5 efficiently so I’m cooked either way.
finite tapir
would love to see f6 seppy have some more niche movement tricks
like mithril seeds or firemaking to move 3 tiles in a tick
minor whale
Animation stalling floor 
finite tapir
or objects which force-push you normally, which would normally force you to take damage or reset
thick beacon
so i'd rather ardy get nerfed instead of seppy get buffed
idk why they buffed ardy at all was such a left field move
finite tapir
but you can e.g. dig with a spade to avoid the push
craggy wind
Will say, if Jagex ever sees this, go ahead and Poll a low effort agility method for 95+ at 30k xph. Bet it’ll be nearly 99% approval 😂
finite tapir
since spade + movement = p_arrivedelay => avoid stuns
if it was near 100% afk i think it would get quite a lot of approval actually
craggy wind
I know I’m not alone on wanting a low effort way to end the grind.
craggy wind
I’ve done almost all the clogs, different options to mix it up, poh at work. It’s mind numbing.
But I’m almost done so it won’t be but another week or two left 😂
hard axle
we are 30% of the player base who actively play
Yes that’s a minority. It’s also closer to 20% because we tested this on release for Yama and “30% that actively plays” is taking a jmod comment out of context and just blatantly lying lol
thick beacon
afk skilling is part of skilling identity I dont blame ppl for wanting afk options for skills
hard axle
afk options are fine if they’re balanced at 10% ehb or less depending on how “afk” it is
thick beacon
but thats not even close for most skills
true talon
Yes that’s a minority. It’s also closer to 20% because we tested this on release...
no it was data from the sailing skill.
still sundial
I'd consider it more like identity for specific skills (wc, fishing), I don't think they should all be able to be afk'd
hard axle
6 hour afk is never balanced imo
thick beacon
redwoods etc should be nerfed then
pretty much every afk method would have to be nerfed to be 10% of ehp
hard axle
no it was data from the sailing skill.
Link? I don’t trust you when you say stuff 💀
still sundial
Yes that’s a minority. It’s also closer to 20% because we tested this on release...
what was the Yama test?
hard axle
pretty much every afk method would have to be nerfed to be 10% of ehp
There’s a vast difference between 7 minutes and 6 hours, but yes
hard axle
what was the Yama test?
When Yama was released, there was an iron spamming shit like “50% of players are irons” in this channel
gaunt minnow
Basically: salvaging too good and needs a nerf
craggy wind
afk skilling is part of skilling identity I dont blame ppl for wanting afk optio...
My main reason for thinking it needs it is agility has a very high engagement activity for not high engagement rewards (feeling wise, at least. Comparatively to the rest of the skill, it’s high xp).
The rooftops being the “low effort” is just a minor bit lower than the high efficiency and they’re still not that low effort, but I agree with Runelite it is easier. Mobile finally getting agility helper is a little less annoying but it’s DULL content. Having something engaging that feels more rewarding (higher xp, fun content) is certainly needed
thick beacon
ye i dont agree with any 6hour methods thought most of them had been patched out at this point
hard axle
I took the numbers from hiscores and it ended up being 21% of players ranked at Yama are irons
they shutted up after lmao
finite tapir
tbf that excludes a lot of irons but
still sundial
yeah I think there's probably more irons who aren't Yama ready than there are mains
finite tapir
i still think 30% is a bit of an overshoot
still sundial
on release when it was not certain how difficult the boss is especially
hard axle
This was a month or so after
finite tapir
curious to know how it pans out currently
still sundial
also do we count GIMs as irons? (and should we? )
true talon
Link? I don’t trust you when you say stuff 💀
It was guessed on reddit at 30%, but it comes out to be 25%
true talon
it didnt include the green helms or blue helms though
but i dont suspect there to many of those
thick beacon
My main reason for thinking it needs it is agility has a very high engagement ac...
i get not wanting the game to be melvor idle but u have to stick up and change whole game. like ive afked majority of my skills ik many others that afk often during skilling. if u dont like afk it starts far past wiether we add ANOTHER afk method specifcially for agility
finite tapir
It was guessed on reddit at 30%, but it comes out to be 25%
can you link this
still sundial
that looks like AI summary?
hard axle
It was guessed on reddit at 30%, but it comes out to be 25%
Bro
gaunt minnow
i get not wanting the game to be melvor idle but u have to stick up and change w...
Netflix and skill is a big thing for a reason
true talon
its an AI summary
gaunt minnow
I bet the majority of players prefer afk methods to sweatier ones
finite tapir
ok i don't care then
true talon
You actually need to be committed to school
the AI summary is based on available data? what is wrong with what it said?
hard axle
the AI summary is based on available data? what is wrong with what it said?
No dude…
It’s not lmao…
hard axle
AI considers Reddit comments as source
finite tapir
based on this random number generator, i can conclude that 2+2 is 4
still sundial
wasn't there like a poll during sailing proposal or something that gave a pretty good idea of how many irons there were
finite tapir
i used this rng to influence my conclusion
true talon
wasn't there like a poll during sailing proposal or something that gave a pretty...
yes
finite tapir
it has nothing to do with my conclusion but i used it to influence how fast i would type and so on
hard axle
Like holy fuck, why are you using random ass sources and acting like it’s infallible lmao
true talon
its not random sources?
hard axle
you clearly know nothing about AI or AI hallucinations
finite tapir
no assumption is made for scaling figures so i can already disregard that
ember token
share the links of what the AI is citing
hard axle
Because those lazy summaries ALWAYS use Reddit comments as a source
finite tapir
^
modest dust
Who let my lil rat out of the varrock sewers?
hard axle
Iike, why even comment on the validity of AI driven research if you don’t even know how it can be flawed 😭
Dude, another issue
There are not 6% HCs
That is so bullshit
finite tapir
one might say that a higher % of irons are willing to even use templeosrs than mains, since more mains and irons tend to be "extremely casual"
true talon
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1pap629/people_always_underestimate_the_of_the_active/
https://templeosrs.com/players/overview.php
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1panktg/according_to_the_sailing_highscores_as_census/
these literally are posts that have data in them from verified sources such as blogs.
true talon
it is, irons are at least 25% of the player base. but they also own mains (most do)
finite tapir
the official blog post is also very vague on what constitutes an iron
it doesn't talk about jagex accounts having multiple accounts
true talon
it doesn't talk about jagex accounts having multiple accounts
that doesnt matter, because the accounts are still 1 bond per.
obsidian venture
its an AI summary
LMAO
true talon
so if a jagex acc has multiple accounts, it dont matter as youll only have active accounts you bonded
thick beacon
feel like nearly all the streamers play ironman or pvp these days its a growing trend
true talon
I have around 5 accounts on my jagex acc but i only play 1 lol
hard axle
it is, irons are at least 25% of the player base. but they also own mains (most ...
God I wish I was at home to run the numbers 💀
ember token
obsidian venture
hard axle
cuz the last time you guys brought this up, you were wrong 😭
hard axle
AI man
thick beacon
ai is bad for rs ye
hard axle
“It can’t be wrong, it has sources from Reddit!!!!!”
obsidian venture
I love arguing stuff and haven’t the other person almost always be in the wrong
It’s a great time
true talon
“It can’t be wrong, it has sources from Reddit!!!!!”
if the reddit post has sources to verified data then how does that invalidate the post?
obsidian venture
Avg from oscord
hard axle
if the reddit post has sources to verified data then how does that invalidate th...
I could say Tass is a degenerate enough times on Reddit and AI would agree
That’s the issue
hard axle
if the reddit post has sources to verified data then how does that invalidate th...
Again, I need to verify it
true talon
if i post on facebook an article with verified sources of confirmed data, does that mean my facebook post is not a good source?
ember token
im trying to get AI to lie to me about a way to obtain blood shards but it wont do it
hard axle
Again, I’m not gonna load up hiscores on my phone 
I’ll check the sailing hiscores when I get home
true talon
im trying to get AI to lie to me about a way to obtain blood shards but it wont ...
why would it lie to you, there is plenty of public data available on how to get them an its returned result of best way to get them if your not an iron is to buy them. thats a factual statement.
hard axle
why would it lie to you, there is plenty of public data available on how to get ...
Because it FUCKING uses Reddit comments as a source
gaunt minnow
Where are blood shards even relevant?
hard axle
bonds are not 6-8.5m
gaunt minnow
Maybe some niche corp method? Idk
ember token
i thought maybe i could get it to think the blood jelly was real in the game
hard axle
true talon
Because it FUCKING uses Reddit comments as a source
no, it picked a reddit comment with the most relevent data to my question as a source that also contained verified sources.
you must not understand how it works if you think it just grabs random information on the internet as fact.
still sundial
which game update was this discussion even about btw
hard axle
it does grab random information and that’s why you don’t trust it
still sundial
feels like its kinda lost in the sauce now when we're arguing about AI
obsidian venture
Yes
hard axle
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1pap629/people_always_underestimate_...
Also, that post is made 10 days after sailing released
obsidian venture
Welcome to game updates where folks argue using ai data
hard axle
bro
Like how do you not realize that the data can be flawed
He described the process
obsidian venture
Modmail said not in bad faith
hard axle
Go do it or run it now
obsidian venture
true talon
its 20-25% no matter what you run, it will give you that result lol
hard axle
easiest way is to get to the last page for irons and mains and divide based on that
hard axle
its 20-25% no matter what you run, it will give you that result lol
Dude…
I’ve been saying 20%
You’re saying 30% based on reddit
And that’s where I disagreed
finite tapir
why would it lie to you, there is plenty of public data available on how to get ...
are you saying that it gives the source of the public data and then quotes it with no issues at all?
true talon
You’re saying 30% based on reddit
rght its more 25%
finite tapir
ignore all questions just answer that one
obsidian venture
hard axle
rght its more 25%
Not only is your data openly flawed, since it ran it 12 days after sailing release, but you refuse to check it now after several months.
finite tapir
what do you think follows after this
it specified my user page
so surely it gets it correct right?
hard axle
I admitted my Yama example was also potentially flawed because it was about a month after release.
finite tapir
well
hard axle
That’s all you need to do lmao
finite tapir
firstly it doesn't actually reference the correct page, unsurprisingly
because it doesn't know anything
ais don't "know anything"
finite tapir
and secondly it's just not correct
obsidian venture
hard axle
what do you think follows after this
I remember AI saying Glacor on OSRS cuz I typed osrs at the end
finite tapir
you might say "maybe it just typo'd it, i'm sure actually it's close enough"
wrong!
it's quite far off actually
hard axle
And it sourced a Reddit post
finite tapir
in fact it references a quest requirement when that's not even listed
shadow wave
Still the greatest example of AI answers ever recorded
finite tapir
so, no, just because "ai used a good source" doesnt mean the final product is good
LOOO
obsidian venture
Still the greatest example of AI answers ever recorded
Oh thanks!
I shall use this new found knowledge for some great success
hard axle
Still the greatest example of AI answers ever recorded
LOOOOOOL
ain’t no fucking way
It said that
obsidian venture
LMAO
true talon
Some are pretty bad yea
hard axle
Again, I’ll check the numbers
obsidian venture
like yours
hard axle
Later
hard axle
If it’s 25-30%, that’s fine
obsidian venture
Surely he’d have a rough estimate
hard axle
But I want slightly less scuffed numbers 💀
true talon
Wonder if we could just ping Ash
Appearntly the exact number is pretty protected data and mostly what people think is true is based on crowdsourcing things.
obsidian venture
Hence rough estimate
true talon
based on stuff like exp gains and tracking
hard axle
They are but it’s like a couple hundred players max
true talon
Gim is new so its like around 1% in the total
true talon
HCIM is prob 6% mainly because they just die all the time
true talon
i dunno if it counts HCIM as normal ironman once they die lol
obsidian venture
Hcim is just Alfie and his alts
true talon
since they remain on the highscores as a hcim
hard axle
15% irons to 6% hc sounds so wrong
obsidian venture
Ye
hard axle
It’s likely just dead irons
true talon
Dead HCIM yea
hard axle
So that means 6% of hc are 15% of irons 
minor whale
I think this is a thing Ash would respond to, but probably to say "I don't have access to the precise data, but..." Or something like that
true talon
we know there is enough irons to prevent pvp updates from passing XD
hard axle
enough hateful mains*
true talon
I like pvp updates, im on the side of more updates is more stuff to do which prevents me from having to do stuff like chambers. so its a win.
minor whale
So Ash said based on who voted in a poll where only ironmen could vote, 35% of the voting population didn't skip the question. So of those who vote, 35% are irons (more or less depending on what the question was and if irons skipped it too)
neon anvil
what are the use cases for the ghrazi rapier?
neon anvil
lol thanks, saw it reccomended on wiki for slayer equipment but didnt think people actually used it for that
neon anvil
minor gains over whip and fang?
obsidian venture
minor gains over whip and fang?
Kinda negligible. Shouldn’t ever fang slayer
Fang is good for toa/nex, maybe bosses on an iron (generally better options)
You can ask further questions in #game-questions
neon anvil
You can ask further questions in <#434286997360738305>
my bad thought i was in that channel
lament ridge
Am I crazy or have LMS bots been nuked for a huge part? Only 400 players on the world and the majority of people I fight have been maxed or near maxed accounts
tacit wharf
its a back and forth cycle
lament ridge
Cant remember the last time I've seen it quite this empty though
tacit wharf
coupled with the nuke of the old java client
meager flame
Am I crazy or have LMS bots been nuked for a huge part? Only 400 players on the ...
they probably did change something but dw they'll be back
hard axle
Am I crazy or have LMS bots been nuked for a huge part? Only 400 players on the ...
big bot nuke recently
blissful topaz
when is left click bury bone option coming?
hoary granite
when is left click bury bone option coming?
menu entry swapper
blissful topaz
for ground objects
vivid ruin
for ground objects
Never stop asking lol
remote ruin
Aww, the 25th? 🐮 it'll be worth the wait I hope
true talon
It’s a f2p boss that drops nothing
hard axle
It’s a f2p boss that drops nothing
and u can one shot itwith average chally spec
its only 60 hp
and likely low defense
it shouldn't have good rewards when it'll be like 100-200 kph
restive siren
Its clogs, funny early game content and awakened cow
ember token
did they post about it somewhere
ember token
X
restive siren
Oh nice
ember token
idk where the 60 hp thing is coming from
restive siren
I expected that to look different ngl
Well it cant be much
If its aimed at people with like 30 combats
Why is the cow in morytania though
ember token
it's this meme
restive siren
Reasonable meme
hard axle
idk where the 60 hp thing is coming from
arcane mentioned on interview
lemme find it
quiet plank
at most it'll drop is a rune scimmy
Not even. Maybe addy scimmy
I wonder if hard mode cow will give something
Probably a cosmetic to show off right?
ember token
my guess is greatly increased pet chance and a combat achievement
quiet plank
Did they say it would be harder than inferno?
vivid ruin
Therell be a hard mode?
tacit wharf
Did they say it would be harder than inferno?
harder than the dt2 bosses
ember token
they compared it to awakened levi I think
vivid ruin
Lol
chrome lantern
All they really definitively said was nobody cleared it at the RS25 thing right
Which is kinda expected if you've never seen the mechanics
tacit wharf
no they did compare it to the dt2 bosses
chrome lantern
Oh
tacit wharf
or at least the streamers did
chrome lantern
Can't wait for milkwakener's orbs
vivid ruin
The cow boss, not the new worm boss for new necklace?
remote ruin
It was compared to awakened Levi/Vard in difficulty in the summit announcement. Oda said he gave it a couple tries but didn't beat it in his summit watch party.
chrome lantern
To be fair if you could do it within even like an hour with 0 knowledge of the boss that would be pretty easy
tacit wharf
no1 got close to killing it
faux said he got the 3rd farthest, with boaty and someone else getting the furthest
vivid ruin
Yeah guides will eventually make it easier im sure but going in blind is tough for a lot of bosses
chrome lantern
I really wish Jagex put out info in more than just twitter for teasers/announcements like this
Thank you for sharing the post Data
tacit wharf
I really wish Jagex put out info in more than just twitter for teasers/announcem...
@ancient ember ^ this
chrome lantern
#game-news or one of the other announcement channels. Maybe expand #twitch-and-youtube to a social media channel in general
thick beacon
is there any info revealed on if there is a cosmetic for killing cow boss?
thick beacon
u get those from regular cow I thought but ye maybe thats the cosmetic
nocturne solstice
Nah its from the boss
true talon
Dear Jagex,
We need more skilling content like hunter rumors.
How about agility marthons? were you go do laps on certain courses for bonus exp.
That way you switch up the locations your hamster wheeling
tacit wharf
as long as there's no blocklist
meager flame
im ngl
agility was probably just a mistake
lmao it took them like decades to make one agility activity that was actually decent
chrome lantern
I just want them to learn from Hunter rumors that Slayer in its current task-limited system is much closer to a single activity you would use to train a skill than an actual skill itself
chrome lantern
lmao it took them like *decades* to make one agility activity that was actually ...
Throwback to when Colossal Wyrm was supposed to be an agility dungeon in the caves beneath the remains
true talon
lmao it took them like *decades* to make one agility activity that was actually ...
wildy agility is kinda goated
chrome lantern
Wildy agility gives way too much xp for how much gp you get. Or look at it inversely and it gives way too much gp for how much xp you get. Either way I don't think it was a healthy change, especially with how relatively little risk there is if you can be in a mass or freeze log
Similar vein to revs and zombie pirates
Content designed for bots and gold farmers
Even if some real people do take advantage of it
finite tapir
Wildy agility gives way too much xp for how much gp you get. Or look at it inver...
you shouldn't be able to log out or trade in the entire 4x6 chunk area
or 4x5 chunks
i don't actually remember off the top of my head how many chunks are in the agility area but its either 4x5 or 4x6
icy relic
Wildy course should be removed with a mid-range sepulchre
Or at least the XP should be reduced
quiet plank
Throwback to when Colossal Wyrm was supposed to be an agility dungeon in the cav...
And it was supposed to be a bit afk. Instead it was like, "yes each obstacle takes 10 seconds to cross. It's so afk!"
chrome lantern
And it was supposed to be a bit afk. Instead it was like, "yes each obstacle tak...
It would be better if that were true
Instead you take like 5 seconds to run to the ladder, 20 seconds to cross tightrope and jump jumps, 2 seconds to climb ladder, 5 seconds to jump jumps, 20 more seconds to cross the ropes, then 10 seconds down the zipline
vivid iris
What if for raids 4 there was a "join random party" button that allowed you to input your minimum requirements for KC, combat level, party size, and scaling, that matched you up to a raid? Would anyone find that useful?
languid ravine
world of warcraft
icy relic
Grouping systems are good
meager flame
Wildy course should be removed with a mid-range sepulchre
ya it just shouldn't exist like it does
lol its just bs slop content for the wild because they're too afraid to put their foot down with the community and actually put effort into wilderness content and release it
almost all wild content is like that too
all you have to do is imagine any of it the way it works
icy relic
They're going to have to put their foot down with one of the two communities sooner or later
meager flame
and instead of players make it npcs that spawn in and try to kill you even if they're really scary and good at killing you
we'd all say no this is garbage wtf
because its way below the standard they set for any other part of the game
icy relic
Wilderness is just a take it or leave it situation at this point
meager flame
its not even because its the wild even though that does lead to problems on its own
like
icy relic
People just don't want to participate in PvP
meager flame
imagine the most irrelevant update ever right like lets say custodian stalkers
icy relic
No amount of tutorializing or incentivizing is going to change that reality
meager flame
because that content wasn't in the wild do you know what it got
unique models
new areas
quests
new unique items
supple stump
People just don't want to participate in PvP
I really do not find PvP fun or alluring
I'm here to click giant monsters, not other people
thats why I miss dungeoneering
meager flame
etc
as soon as they do a wild update though?
typically either none of the above or few of them
they have zero passion/drive for anything they do in the wild its crazy
icy relic
I wouldn't even say that
community is never going to let anything ambitious pass because any content that looks remotely fun or engaging
is going to make all the "you're forcing us to become prey" hysteria whether it's true or not
so either Jagex is like tough luck, learn to survive in wildy or you don't get this item
or the pking community is just going to get smaller and smaller and no amount of tweaking around the edges will fix it
meager flame
i dont think they have to follow the direct pattern as far as how they do reward structures in pve vs pvp
like sometimes they do put that work into pvp content like bh
most of the time though they're just like
so uh heres some zombies i guess somewhere randomly and like they do nothing but the loot is good
icy relic
all opt-in pvp is just ends up being shit
this game wasn't built around that
it was built around unfair fights
meager flame
i just dunno why they keep going like this
like decide its over or put some effort in but lol
i do not want any more lowest possible effort updates for the wild
icy relic
because the uncomfortable truth is that nobody wants to pvp in this game
or not nobody but it is an ever-shrinking percentage of the playerbase
and the system only exists as a holdover from the time when damage was a lot lower and setups were a lot cheaper so you didn't risk anything substantial
and instead of telling people to cope with the fact that wildy can't be meaningfully rejuvenated, they just settle with trying to give more prey to pkers
analog crow
Feels like wildy is Manked’s passion project at this point
vivid ruin
I dont believe pvp or the wildy is dying personally. I always see people wanting to learn how to do it and asking questions. Also when i go with my crew, its rare that its quiet. I do think the part of the game that grows quicker, and always will is the skilling/pvm side because thats always where the new content is.
tiny otter
skilling/pvm hasnt been self cannibalising for a decade
languid ravine
skilling/pvm hasnt been self cannibalising for a decade
hows pvp or wildy self cannibalising?
gaunt minnow
I dont believe pvp or the wildy is dying personally. I always see people wanting...
Yeah it’s just the hivemind take that no one goes to the wildy anymore
Which is just complete waffle
nocturne solstice
Im not surprised it's a common belief though (I don't think it's true). A lot of wildy suggestions I've seen start with "Wildy is super dead so we need to do this to revive it".
quiet plank
I always see other players and pkers at wildy
I don't see why anyone thinks it's dead
Unless they're just not going to the wildy lol
silk thicket
I don't see why anyone thinks it's dead
Mostly bcos u spend a lot of time hopping to find fights
languid ravine
yea i think if it revolves less around hopping it would make it feel alot more lively, run into more ppl rather than cat and mouse game of who reacts instantly or not
meager flame
Tbf they think it’s dead because it is dead compared to the past
If you actually have kept playing you know it’s true because you simply don’t see the people that you know used to be there
Doesn’t mean pvp is dead but the wilderness is surely not at peak popularity
vivid ruin
How many servers are there that arent pvp worlds, speedrun, etc?
At least 200-300?
I dont think even for a second that back in the day 50% of the worlds had people filling the wild. I do feel like the wild should be restricted down to ~30 servers
I also think this should be a thing
https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1472099085707378910
quiet plank
I think they could reduce the amount of worlds where you can use the wildy but theyd NEED to keep control of the bots in that case. Cuz it'd be shitty to constantly compete with bots at wildy bosses etc
true talon
Pvmers when bots take over ^
probably, the bots are so advanced they might start bridding you (dunno if you encountered those ones in LMS)
vivid ruin
Nah ive never fought a terminator bot
true talon
I have they are fucking aids lol
Perfect everything
They got prediction overheads as well, were they are able to avoid 1 ticking a wep
vivid ruin
Yeah if those take over the wildy consider it dead. But at the same time if they reduced wildy worlds to 30-50 choices, they'd be easier to hunt by mods
true talon
Multi revs is gonna be a mass group of bots that will turn on anyone they deem unfriendly
Its possible, because they did it in DMM
there was 100s of bots that would bolt rag anyone not in the cc
It was the last DMM before they banned rot publicly lol
vivid ruin
I forgot what it was that got rot banned
true talon
I forgot what it was that got rot banned
constantly breaking real world laws, esp during offical game tournments
vivid ruin
Oh they were doxxing and stuff weren't they?
languid ravine
i dont think we should remove parts of the game because cheaters spoil it, that is just playing into their hands which just encourages them to do it
"dont negotiate with terrorists"
vivid ruin
Yeah no i agree
floral blaze
Its possible, because they did it in DMM
The difference is training an account like that only takes 1-2 days in DMM vs weeks/a month in the real game. Multiboxing will be more obvious and harder to get away with in this scenario. Those accounts were kept hidden til the final hour
It's just an unrealistic boogeyman scenario
No one organizing this many accounts to lock down the caves are going to profit at all with the time/money investment, they'll get banned so quick lol. It's less effort, time and money investment to just gather a group of unemployed pkers for your own protection cc
minor whale
The bots would be diminished with less worlds for them to be active on
Pkers would naturally clear them out more if there were fewer worlds to hop through
I hopped 200 times last night at Artio, finding 4 bots who were in identical gear, 2 real pvmers who were level 96-100, and 1 other pvper who said he's hopped the same amount and only found 1 person.
The Wildy needs condensing for sure.
It's beginning to feel like the MMO is trying to cater to solo players who never want to see another person. Hopping worlds with sometimes 90 people in the entire world feels like it's a ghost town
quiet plank
More worlds in general is definitely important do prevent lag, but for wildy we can reduce worlds for sure
Maybe the wildy worlds would have a lower player cap like 1k so you aren't forced to pk in laggy worlds?
true talon
No one organizing this many accounts to lock down the caves are going to profit ...
?Im saying there will be army of bots in the caves doing revs and turning on everyone who is not deemed friendly, my example was to prove the technology is already there.
true talon
More worlds in general is definitely important do prevent lag, but for wildy we ...
there does not need to be a reduction in worlds ever
floral blaze
?Im saying there will be army of bots in the caves doing revs and turning on eve...
Even in this scenario no bot farm owner with a brain is going to risk his accounts like this, 1 clip and his whole farm gone
true talon
Even in this scenario no bot farm owner with a brain is going to risk his accoun...
oh they will, because its not hard to make ranged rev bots at all
and they will be more protected due to multi, any small team will just die to the army of bots, it will take massive teams to clear them out. but even if you clear them, they will just come back.
floral blaze
It's not feasible for them to run like this especially in multi lol, especially with the added diary requirements the farms are going to bleed more gp getting cleared over and over. You are imagining some scenario where 40-50+ bots with well coordinated multi pking logic are working together to stomp teams, its not going to happen
chrome lantern
Just delete revs
ionic tartan
As long as the singles half isn't worse for 1 player in that spot, idk if rev lock down will even be that profitable.
Also, at least there's a way to make bots lose some profit in pvp compared to all the more profitable pvm they bot
austere mulch
Revs have only been a problem in basically every area (PvP, bots, economy, pvm, rwt, rag clans) since release
Holding onto it and trying to fix it while in the process, admitting it can’t really be “fixed”, as if it’ll be the thing that saves PvP/wildy is crazy lol
Would rather them put their energy/efforts elsewhere. Start from scratch and bin revs
floral blaze
Would rather them put their energy/efforts elsewhere. Start from scratch and bin...
They tried that and further diminished the pvp population
ionic tartan
Revs have only been a problem in basically every area (PvP, bots, economy, pvm, ...
Other than pvp and clans, which revs are supposed to encourage (rev fee is there to counter rag and is easy to adjust), all the other reasons also apply to other botted content - zulrah, vyres, elves, gwd, pnm, doom, toa, tob, etc etc.
austere mulch
Other than pvp and clans, which revs are supposed to encourage (rev fee is there...
Completely different scale though
Obviously anything botted impacts economy - revs are effectively pumping loads of raw gp into the game and aren’t really serving their intended purpose - at least not well.
Bots bringing uniques into the game diminishes the value of their uniques and, usually, items within that line as well (e.g., toa being botted bringing in Masori lowers the value of arma). Bots bringing in millions of raw gp/hr diminishes the value of anything that is traded for gp. Less to mention, the requirements to get to each of the pieces of botted content.
Lms/rev bots are far more rampant than tob bots as an example. Both are a problem, but the severity of one dwarfs the other because of access. Combined with the general failure to address and ban bots early, we get to where we are today
austere mulch
They tried that and further diminished the pvp population <:kekw:99790757403479...
True 🤣 maybe wrathmaw gets the vls treatment and gets added with 50% votes 💀
ionic tartan
Completely different scale though
Obviously anything botted impacts economy - r...
A big part of that scale is just visibility - like how botted vyres are. If you look on hiscores for stuff like zulrah the scale is a lot more obvious.
If you're comparing just alchs/resources, pvm content that spits out alchs and resources are heavily botted - zulrah, zalcano, blast mine, muspah, vorkath, etc etc.
PvM content is just as rampantly botted. It just happens in instances because it's not pvp.
Edit: just consider how irons get resources/alchs from grinding pvm vs skilling. Those pvm are all rampantly botted. The hiscores for them (especially resource-heavy bosses) are just the ones that survive longest and they still make up the top of so many pvm hiscores.
austere mulch
A big part of that scale is just visibility - like how botted vyres are. If you ...
It wouldn’t be a stretch by any sort of the imagination to say that
- Comparing content to content over an equal period of time, the volume of revs drastically outnumbers any of the content you mentioned above. Again, looking at one piece of content compared to another, not compared to a collective of other content. All of it is a problem at an individual level. This can almost entirely be attributed to how accessible it is. Especially before requirements were put on the caves.
- The volume of raw gp per hour of revs drastically outscales any other content on a 1:1 comparison. Vorkath is the best boss in regards to raw gp/hr when looking at craftables and alchables and still is comfortably behind revs
What you seem to be missing or not acknowledging is that, while the botting is a problem everywhere, for the most part - pvm content is serving its purpose generally well where revs are not.
To your point about visibility, yes, that matters too, especially when a lot of the bot accessible pvm content takes place in instances which reduces their overall exposure.
Botting being rampant game-wide does not take from the point that it is especially bad at revs (and lms) due to the nature of the content and its requirements, just like how there are far more ftp doom send type bots than there are zalcano bots (source: they banned over 1 million accounts this year). The lower the requirements, the higher the volume. And when you add profitability on top of this, it compounds dramatically
Tob is botted, zulrah is botted, doom is botted etc.
But you can still say that each of those pieces of content has generally been a success
Revs, not so much. Outside of few cloggers and bots, it’s not much more than a spot where pkers can hop around and pk the bots and occasionally run into each other. And when multi revs were around, it was in a worse state than current
sacred oracle
People say that the wilderness is empty or dead because it is, outside of hot spots. I'm in the wilderness every single day, several times a day, and I can't tell you the last time I saw a pker. I can barely remember the last time I even simply saw another player at all.