game-update

[hasty shard]

i do not like that

[nocturne solstice]

im saying i prefer the niches first then the "things"

[true talon]

it can turn existing slash content into crush content, its very easy to swing dps numbers if you got a proper crush mega with a strong crush armor

[hasty shard]

especially when shit tends to get abandoned

[icy relic]

I have mixed feelings

About making you grind content with shit gear not suited for it

[nocturne solstice]

Do you have an example? I also dont think its a good idea. People were very pissed with shadow stealing ranged/melee content.

[true talon]

dont forget oathplate made slash dhl a thing

[icy relic]

Only to solve that content with tailored gear later

Like imagine if they released Yama without demonbane

[true talon]

scythe on crush with full inquistor was bis for CM's untill jagex added torva and oathplate

its very easy to change what style is bis

[nocturne solstice]

I imagine people would just shadow or scythe which does suck for people who dont have megarares

[nocturne solstice]

I never said it would be hard.

I said it might upset people so its just something to keep in mind.

[true talon]

but to say that there is no crush content is pretty bad statement, considering i said the new raid would be crush focused

so there is crush armor, crush mega in a crush based raid

[nocturne solstice]

Thats why i said it would be better to just add more crush content instead of changing meta at existing content.

[thick beacon]

thats the thing though imo selling point isint even crush. appealing thing is how it can be useful in the current game and to do that it would have to outpace actual slash weapons

[true talon]

restores phosani relevence, improves current crush content, makes way for future crush content

[icy relic]

They would have to fix PNM first

[true talon]

nothing is really wrong with it? other than the awful drops

[nocturne solstice]

I also never said "there's no crush content" just that there arent good ones. I said mid tier spiders (true) and you mentioned phosani which people hate to farm, and Sol Heredit which is like, no. Just slash the dude.

[icy relic]

Oh yeah nothing is wrong with it except the glaringly wrong thing with it

[true talon]

well when you say fix phosani, you need to say whats wrong.....

[nocturne solstice]

I think the obvious answer would be drop rates

its kinda like, universally agreed

[true talon]

drop rates are only bad for the orbs tbh

drop rates is around yama now after the phase removal

[icy relic]

I am not going to relitigate the obvious thing everyone recognizes including jagex

Except they just choose to ignore even what they know is best

[nocturne solstice]

that sounds super false to me 🤔

[true talon]

5 min kill 1/127 to hit table vs 5 min kill 1/120 to hit table

[icy relic]

It's actually true but Yama has dry protection

[thick beacon]

was phosani ever revelant to begin with?

[icy relic]

So it is much faster to greenlog and everyone finishes at around the same time generally

[nocturne solstice]

so comparison of PSN and Yama.

PSN armor pieces are 1/700
Yama are 1/600

PSN KC/hr is 7.5 (based on wiki)
Yama KC/hr is 20 (solo, based on wiki)

[true talon]

dry protection does not green log you

[nocturne solstice]

Why would you compare them

and call em similar

[true talon]

yama solo is not 20 kph lmao

[icy relic]

Solo is 11ish

[nocturne solstice]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Money_making_guide/Killing_Yama_(solo)

Thats the default they put in

[icy relic]

10-11

[nocturne solstice]

i just went off that

[icy relic]

20 is duo

[nocturne solstice]

if you wanna say 10-11 thats still higher than 7.5

[true talon]

also 7.5 phosani is very low

that sounds like old rate of 7-8 mins

[nocturne solstice]

what would you say it is?

[icy relic]

I can do 9 PNM without any inq pieces

Bandos + SRA

[true talon]

id say its closer to 10-11

depending on gear

[nocturne solstice]

man i wish we had more stats to see the actual average time huh

does PNM have like, a stat board outside?

[icy relic]

Wiki kills per hour is usually on the conservative side

[true talon]

my PB is 5:35 and im not even good

[thick beacon]

thats what ive heard as well roughly

[icy relic]

that's with SRA+bandos

[nocturne solstice]

lets go with 5:35 for pnm then, thats like 11kc/hr

Whats your yama pb?

[icy relic]

which is like 1.5-2 dps under bis

[true talon]

2:30 bur thats duo

so like 5-6 mins solo mage camping

[icy relic]

yama is like 5 min average with nofly

[thick beacon]

even if assume its like slower it doesint seem like inq is more then like 10-20% slower

[nocturne solstice]

That would be 12, we can assume 24 if duo but lets go solo

[thick beacon]

then yama

[nocturne solstice]

so PNM = 11/hr
Yama = 12/hr

But the rates are still 1/700 to 1/600

[true talon]

Like i said they are close, i never said they were even lol

[icy relic]

9-10 is honestly more realistic for PNM

the run back and spawn times suck

[thick beacon]

dry protection is pretty insane though

[icy relic]

even with the teleport there

[thick beacon]

u basically make a guarnteed 3rd piece by the time u get 2 on avg if i recall

[limber creek]

one issue here yall. Yama drops bis melee armor in game. PNM drops some worthless junk you buy after you have all raid items.

[true talon]

well it took me 1725 yama kills mix of duo an solo to get 900 shards

[thick beacon]

ye thats 2 pieces

[nocturne solstice]

Also true

[thick beacon]

900 kills for shards for 1 oathplate piece

[icy relic]

scam boss

[thick beacon]

roughly

[true talon]

ya boss is fucking ass loot wise

for its effort

normal NM is even worst

[icy relic]

inq is also bis

[thick beacon]

idc much honestly about how bad its loot is if the uniques are good

[icy relic]

for crush

[true talon]

an it takes 20 mins to kill solo

[icy relic]

it's good

[thick beacon]

its so good that its not even reccomended to get inq till post gm

[true talon]

ya but outside of being a zerker how often are you even gonna use inquistor

[thick beacon]

from eff perspective

[icy relic]

but there just isn't a use for it

because jagex hasn't shilled it

it's not because it's not good

[nocturne solstice]

its good but like... not worth it

[true talon]

mine rarely sees the light of day, i was using it to bash on frost dragons but torva was only 1% worst lol

I used mine at frost dragons and huey

The mace is just dead content

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah thats what ive been saying! Add more crush content!

[true talon]

kinda shame, doom coulda been a crush boss. but instead they gave it typeless melee damage lmao

[hasty shard]

yeeees more spiders

[icy relic]

just flinch it

[thick beacon]

ive been hearing inq/harm coin for like 5years now

[true talon]

BIS ass gargoyle boss

[nocturne solstice]

We just got tortugans so im hoping for a turtle boss

[thick beacon]

they had multiple chances

to make crush be more part of game

[icy relic]

grotesque guardians have no def

not even crush favored

[true talon]

ikr....

[limber creek]

a turtle boss and you bonk his shell to make him pop his head out then slash his head off

[thick beacon]

I think part of reason they didint is they want to juice scy so they made everything slash

[true talon]

That would be kinda cool if you was forced to use attack styles an then switch

[nocturne solstice]

I was thinking bonk him to flip him upside down for more dps for a few ticks but sure

[thick beacon]

so now game is slash dominant

[nocturne solstice]

kinda gruesome, really bringing that DS1 energy back

[icy relic]

ofc

oathplate, rancour, colo being pure slash-favored content

every boss being scythable

[true talon]

You dps his shell with crush and then you slash his soft under shell

[nocturne solstice]

a good way to anti scythe a chubby boss might be flat armor 🤔

[true talon]

Flat armor is def something they need to do more

good balance lever to slow and fast weps

and multi hit weps

[limber creek]

inb4 im ham jointing raids 4

[nocturne solstice]

being it on

[thick beacon]

do u guys think they will reveal some of their inital pitches for rewards on raids 4 in the winter summit?

[true talon]

yes

[nocturne solstice]

feels a bit soon but... yeah

[true talon]

or maybe the concept

[icy relic]

probably

[nocturne solstice]

maybe not fully detailed

[true talon]

isnt raids 4 this year?

[limber creek]

we hope

[icy relic]

we'll find out soon enough

[true talon]

if it includes anything for your boat im 1 star logging out for good

[thick beacon]

they have been cooking but I feel like with leauges production we might not get it idk though

[torpid delta]

that was what they said at the last summit, it was planned for 2026

you know how jagex is with far-out timeframes tho

[true talon]

Shouldnt be to difficult to make a raid, since they are axing puzzle rooms

mean you only need to develop the boss lair an the bosses

[minor whale]

And no invos thank God

No puzzles no invos they'd have to try hard to fuck it up

[ember token]

raids 4 will likely be at the end of the summit and end of the roadmap, I don't see them giving many details on it

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah would be simpler with the old ez, norm, hard mode only

[limber creek]

No easy mode. Quit wasting dev time for people who dont wanna learn the content. 🍴

[ember token]

and then when runefest rolls around in autumn (october right?), that's when they'll go more in-depth

[nocturne solstice]

No unique drops

[limber creek]

Nope. its hatin for no reason hour and im taking part.

[nocturne solstice]

That makes sense tbh, just a teaser now and more detail halfway through the year

[ember token]

yeah, we won't be hearing about rewards until it gets close to time to actually poll them, and i dont see them polling the rewards when the raid is very possibly still a year away

[icy relic]

I dunno man

[minor whale]

Especially since they said they no longer do any dev work until something is polled

[icy relic]

jagex has been releasing things before they are fully cooked for more than a year now

[minor whale]

They'd have to whip up a raid quick to be done before Septemberish

[icy relic]

their pipeline definitely looks like it's getting pushed by the venture capitalists

doom and yama were like... not properly tested. sailing came out way too early

[minor whale]

People have said this about Jagex since Jagex existed

Every single update has had people say "wow they rushed this and didn't QA"

Look at how many fixes CoX had on release and right after

It's not a push to release more they just have never done proper QA

[nocturne solstice]

I just take it as a pitfall of gaming, most games I play have updates that are half-cooked

Warframe comes to mind a lot with falling through tiles and random crashes

[minor whale]

Yup
Most people have nostalgia goggles on for stuff in the past but it also had major problems

[nocturne solstice]

Its unfortunate that the best QA will always be the playerbase

[limber creek]

remember sailing lol

[minor whale]

Like when people point at stuff like "Wow bf6 is trash and so underbaked compared to bf4" despite bf4 having been criticized as one of the worst releases in gaming

[nocturne solstice]

But it's something (imo) you just have to live with when you're playing a live service game that gets constant updates. If you want a flawless game definitely go for those one off single player games like hollowknight or something where they have a set thing, make it, polish it, ship it, done.

[limber creek]

Expedition 33 only lasts so long 🙁

[nocturne solstice]

sad but true

[minor whale]

It's just more people talking about it in more centralized places these days compared to a decade ago

[nocturne solstice]

also true, social media man

blows everything up

[minor whale]

The "slop" has always existed and will always exist

[ember token]

raids 4 is simply just not that close to release - we're getting Blood Moon Rises likely within 2-3 months, probably a summer leagues (6/6/26), and then they'll be able to reveal a bunch more about it at runefest in autumn

[minor whale]

Yeah I'd expect end of year for raids 4

Anything earlier than that would be a major surprise

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah true, all hands on deck are probs for Blood Moon Rises rn

[limber creek]

No time to slip multi revs in there

[minor whale]

They said there's a Wildy month!

Maybe in that month they'll add multi revs back

[limber creek]

Thats scary and exciting lol

[nocturne solstice]

I imagine they slip in wildy/pvp updates during deadman development

[oblique mesa]

If they add multi revs you have to take all of #game-update on a multi trip

[minor whale]

I reallllly thought we'd have gotten more DMM news

[limber creek]

Ill reopen cpk if they add multi revs.

[minor whale]

It's actually wild it's a week away and we haven't heard...anything? New

Except someone who found the new breach NPCs added

[limber creek]

24/7 pking all are welcomed. We will have spies that hit us. deal with it.

[oblique mesa]

Its insane

The drip feed of info for it has been really bad this year

[nocturne solstice]

Probably more focused on that creator clash thing

[minor whale]

They added Sol Heredit and Zemouregal as breach NPCs

[nocturne solstice]

the DMM with solo mission

[limber creek]

the 150 creator dmm thing lol.

[oblique mesa]

Which is crazy because last year they did decent marketting for it 😭

[hasty shard]

yama too

[limber creek]

Theyre going hard on the marketing of that event because of all of the wow refugees. and hence why they're all linked with odablock. Just imo.

[frail bough]

Didn't they say it drops on Sunday after? They also said it's more or less the same as what the creators are doing

[icy relic]

the wow refugees are all gone

[restive storm]

They said “they wouldn’t mind” a Wildy month not that there’s one planned lol

[nocturne solstice]

i think they just play off stream now

[ember token]

also the wardens, bloat, muspah, yama, and scurrius

[nocturne solstice]

I think I heard some are in the uhh creator DMM?

[limber creek]

Its still played by most of them on side monitor lol.

[nocturne solstice]

Tyler1? or was that bait? lmao

[limber creek]

tyler 1 is one of the big names for o's team yes lol

[ember token]

there's also a new breach npc they added called "I DSCIM YOU"

[minor whale]

Honestly I get they focus on making that go smoothly since it's live but like

Nobody really cares that much about it compared to the rest of the summit and I'd much rather have info about an event everyone can participate in lmao

[nocturne solstice]

lmao nice

[icy relic]

t1 has always played rs

[nocturne solstice]

He was a big part of OnlyFangs too so people that wouldnt know his past might see this as a wow refugee

but you're definitely right

[limber creek]

also not all the wow refugees were streamers.
I came here from wow a long time ago lol

[oblique mesa]

Yup lots of changes to make it more accessible than ever but less advertised than ever

[restive storm]

I been saying this, couldn’t agree more. Not that interesting to watch a game mode that literally isn’t playable to the players you’re pitching it to

They also managed to totally break w45 when they pushed out the update Wednesday so that was kinda hilarious to see

[minor whale]

I think there's not that much info to give out past what they said a few months ago but in that case they announced the mode WAY too early

[restive storm]

Just people spawning and dying over and over again in lummy losing their banks lol

[torpid delta]

"what are you gonna do, dscim me?" -quote from man dscimmed

[minor whale]

If hype dies down this much because they gave out all the changes to the mode a few months ago and then have been silent

That's a big failure

[limber creek]

It is called DEADmanmode for a reason

[minor whale]

Also did you guys see they broke permanent Deadman worlds lmao

[ember token]

yeah w345 is doing their Q&A for annihilation

[minor whale]

Probably the funniest thing they could have done

[oblique mesa]

Im sure all 3 of the people who play on that world were very upset

And theres still a bunch of stuff for them to tease about it, I don't think they went over all of the quests you can unlock, the sigils, how you get points etc etc

[ember token]

oh they also changed thralls for deadman, might just be with the trinket though, the thralls are lil zuk, wisp, and kalphite princess

[oblique mesa]

Just feels bad because I have a bunch of clannies asking about it and they want to try it out and everyone just tells them "idk wait for the blogpost" when its a week away

[minor whale]

They said it'd come out "hopefully this week"

[true talon]

thats literally a quest lol

[ember token]

big evil chicken

[minor whale]

Which is wild to have like at most a week of building lmao

[nocturne solstice]

Yes

[minor whale]

It'll be a gm finale quest that has a repeatable boss

For what's considered one of the best quest lines

And has to tie up like 5 plots

[ember token]

and is rewarding access to an area about the size of the stranglewood which will have various pieces of large and small content in it (vampyrium)

[nocturne solstice]

Writing team? Yup
Art team? Yup
Coders/Programmers? Double yep
Promo team? Yup
Balancing and QA team? Yup

Blood Moon Rises really would be all hands on deck.

A raid might be simpler/more complicated depending if they tie a quest to it for unlocking.

I think it might be kinda expected now tbh

[limber creek]

whats the promo team doing

making a picture with grok?

well see a vid at summit prob im trippin

[ember token]

plus Drakan isn't going to be a repeatable/farmable boss, and I believe Vampyrium is going to have its own repeatable boss there, so that's 2 bosses coming with the quest

[tacit wharf]

ngl, cant wait to see what mod ed's been cookin up for it

[nocturne solstice]

Working them socials

damn i got a greater demon task, time to go to GWD jail

[ember token]

i'm predicting that Vanescula will end up being true to her word and agree to work to make things better for the vampyres and humans alike, instead of betraying us like in RS3

[nocturne solstice]

True, as a sign of peace surely we'll get a maid for our POH

[ember token]

will be able to safely run about darkmeyer without need for the noble costume

[minor whale]

New flail too

[hasty shard]

surely

[nocturne solstice]

flail good

inb4 new BiS at ToB

[hasty shard]

the big thing in osrs is that we have sleep cattle :)

so there is a solution to the whole blood tithes

[ember token]

I'm also hoping that castle drakan will be properly fleshed out as an area we can explore at least during the quest and that it's not just a glorified portal to Vampyrium

[nocturne solstice]

true

but i guess the nobles are too snobby for cattle

[hasty shard]

which i'd presume is enough leverage for vanescula to not have a reason to betray

[nocturne solstice]

its all about marketing

[restive storm]

Every time I gotta go to vampire land I just get angry, I h8 it over there

[hasty shard]

like iirc wasnt it only lowerniel who didn't like it or was it also vanstrom

[nocturne solstice]

i dont recall it at all haha

[limber creek]

they could add marty mcvampire as long as the boss or w/e is dope ill kill it

[hasty shard]

i'd vote yes to marty mcvampire

[ember token]

Vanstrom wasn't happy that Damien was doing it without permission

i don't think the sleeper plague is really a solution/will be the solution

[nocturne solstice]

Fellas is Morytania just the Matrix?

[analog crow]

iirc some lower class vyre was doing the slepe gig to try to suck up to Vanstrom?

Lowerniel basically seems like doesn't gaf about the blood tithe business

[true talon]

its ok when people die they respawn with a new hp bar to drain, so vampires are missing out if they arent utilizing the ones who can revive.

We can offer the farmers to the vampires, they die and remake constantly

[ember token]

basically Damien was a lesser noble and he was not only spreading the Sleeper Plague but also having werewolves kidnap people from across the Salve to get more blood because of the shortages, and was using it to gain followers/supporters

[minor whale]

New cooking mini game! We make a blood substitute that rewards cooking and magic XP and a shop to purchase blood shards with reward tokens

/S but honestly they might

[ember token]

and he was doing all this without permission so Vanstrom and Vanescula weren't happy about it

[analog crow]

Ty! I thought this was the case but I was in doubt since iirc Vanstrom shows up in the dungeon under Slepe together with Damien.

[ember token]

yeah Damien invites Vanstrom over to check out what he was doing spreading the sleeper plague

[analog crow]

Oh and then he gets chewed out for it?

[ember token]

Vanstrom is like "not a bad idea, but I'm in charge of blood tithing and I didn't give you permission for this, and you're being reckless and have attracted the attention of the Myreque and that's your problem, we're not gonna support you"

[analog crow]

Gotcha

Ty loremaster!

[ember token]

and then we kill Kroy (and destroy his lab/research), Damien, and then Vanstrom

which pretty definitively ends the sleeper plague

so I don't see it being brought up again as a solution to the lack of blood

[analog crow]

In the sense that they can't make new sleepers right? The people who already got infected are still sick

[ember token]

yeah

they had found the recipe for the elixir of everlasting in the sisterhood sanctuary and recreated it, though it's unclear if the original recipe still exists or if it's part of what we destroyed in Kroy's lab after killing him

[analog crow]

It's pretty strange that there's this whole cave system under Slepe leading to the Nightmare and the Sisterhood, but there is no quest that introduces the area

"strange", or at least uncharacteristic

Bunch of random demons down there

[ember token]

there's a bit of demon lore there via [[Lithil]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Lithil

[ember token]

Lithil: Demons tend to stay where they were summoned. You see, once they're done eating the stupid wizard that thought it could control a demon, they're pretty much stuck until someone else decides to summon them.

[analog crow]

Is there any lore around Lithil, Mazchna etc, who seem like they are much closer to humans in physiology and customs (wearing clothes etc)
Even Kril and Yama fight you buck naked...

[ember token]

not in OSRS I don't think, but RS3 might

[hasty shard]

wait how does mazchna get about

unless its explicitly big demons

[round lintel]

So i started the nail grind

im gonna make cb/trawling ship

hopefully im done before dmm

[idle rapids]

He doesn't, have you ever seen him move around?

[meager flame]

im kinda curious about their next project rebalance

i have a feeling we're about to find out about one

[orchid temple]

Make ranged defenses matter pls, they added diff types yet they never make a difference

[languid ravine]

heavy better vs tank armor?

[true talon]

attack on the mega rares

[narrow folio]

they definitely are titans in the meta...

[true talon]

Shadow rework, scythe crush removal and maybe some other QOL to it. Tbow - adjustment

[narrow folio]

make tbow worth it on 150 magic and up finally

[tacit wharf]

making weakness actually matter, instead of just having weakness a monster is strong against only slightly worse than what a monster is weak against

[zenith pike]

make melee styles actually mean something

[languid ravine]

yea what would melee styles do i have no clue

[tacit wharf]

?

[languid ravine]

its almost simpler to just not have them at this point i feel like

[tacit wharf]

stab/slash/crush

[minor whale]

What

Melee styles absolutely matter in a lot of cases

[languid ravine]

like an effect or something not just raw dps

[minor whale]

That'd break the entire game and be such a difference to how anything works it'd never happen

[narrow folio]

stab chance to ignore defense, slash gets bleed and crush lowers defense

status effects time.

[minor whale]

People would literally say EOC

[zenith pike]

they are the pillar of the melee style but it took a while to realize that it props up nothing.

[minor whale]

And they'd be actually somewhat correct

[languid ravine]

ehh EOC was just really badly designed

[limber creek]

if it didnt respond like chineese spyware and was responsive like wow eoc wouldve worked a lot better im just saying. But i never want it again lmao.

[languid ravine]

long range style gets some situational use

[languid ravine]

i watched some vids on EOC release and the abilities were sooo bland

[zenith pike]

I had some similar idea but I we're pretty close in effect here

[narrow folio]

i get inspired by warframe which has damage types that get situational boosts or reductions but also have a chance to proc an effect

like enchanted bolts but actually fleshed out

[zenith pike]

regardless how it's done, there's a conversation to be had about having styles contribute more to the game than deciding what reskin of weapon you can use and promote better itemization

[narrow folio]

yeah they're different in name only lol

no extra differentiation besides maybe this is more accurate on this monster

[zenith pike]

yup

and it's only more obvious the more non unique weapons we get

[hasty shard]

i do not like the ranged changes for this

and i'll be so pissed if magic calcs get reworked

it really feels like homogenising the skills for little benefit

[narrow folio]

i feel ya

it's jank but it's old school jank haha

[hasty shard]

we didnt need a range defensive split when flat armour JUST came out and was already doing a far better job conceptually

i dont like elemental weaknesses for this either cause theres almost zero distinction between them

there's sunfires and tome of water buffing curse spells

thats it

[narrow folio]

different color 😂

[zenith pike]

which flavour of crayon am I feeling like eating today

[torpid delta]

the blue ones taste the best

[hasty shard]

sunfires are just too expensive to reliably use and curse spells dont have old callisto around to be at all relevant

[languid ravine]

dang i had a reddit post saved about changing curses but apparently the dude deleted his reddit acc

for pvp atleast one idea was making getting back ur debuffed stats harder when cursed

[icy relic]

Flat armor is a good lever to pull to counter blowpipe

And also adds a lot of design space for armor shredding mechanics

But they haven't leaned into it at all so far

[narrow folio]

actually buffed it in a couple places like gargoyles nex minions

insanely close to tbow dps now

[icy relic]

Yeh I think it's fine for nex

Minis should die fast, they don't add anything to the fight

They're not ready to go all-in on ammo weaknesses because range isn't fleshed out enough compared to melee

[narrow folio]

no it's because they didn't want to upset current metas that much

which is good, wouldve been crazy to upend old bosses for no reason

[icy relic]

Crossbows still suck in terms of just straight up autoattacking

Carried entirely by rubies

[bronze kernel]

It did open up more avenues for boss design. A ranged weak boss is going to be probably getting shredded by a Blowpipe unless it's base defense was high enough.

[hasty shard]

theres a whole other half of my sentence there

[chrome lantern]

I really really really hate when they do this

[narrow folio]

Can also go the other way so it's not necessarily a nerf or buff...but it does feel more forced and gimmicky now

[round lintel]

I think this might be a bug, I docked in the island where where aquanites are

and I teleported while in my ship, now it shows as lost

[chrome lantern]

If you teleported while n your ship it will always be lost unless at a Port

Specifically not mooring points

[idle rapids]

Im not a fan of how reliant you have to be on the port wizards if you value your time

Like I spent 50m on a boat teleporty thing and I can't even recover it from being lost? Smh

I dont even care about paying the port wizards it just feels annoying that I'm ditching my boat and recovering it constantly to do anything w/ sailing

Maybe could be better if I could pay a one time 10m fee per boat to just recover it from being lost whenever/wherever I want or something along those lines

[chrome lantern]

I feel like with how hard it is to get a Greater Teleport Focus it wouldn't be unrealistic to be able to teleport to it at sea

[compact flicker]

I was mostly sad for finding out the ship bottle is a one time use thing

[hasty shard]

they shouldve just like, not added ship bottles lol

imo whenever they do the change they should let you store ship facilities in the bottles

like flatpacking

[chrome lantern]

Please no

Don't make us need to get bottles to do that lmao

[hasty shard]

you dont need to get any bottles is the thing!
just dont suck at placement

or cheap out using a single boat

[idle rapids]

Yeah I think thatd be a nice change to make bottles more useful, I dont rlly see the point right now

[winged mantle]

"just know exactly where to place things ahead of time"

[idle rapids]

Ive never felt the need to move anything but at least it would be something

[hasty shard]

wiki things in the wiki game

[winged mantle]

In before they bring out a new ship

how could I have known

It would be fine if you had 1 boat type and enough spaces for evrything you need for alll activities and each space is specific

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I mean I was at 80s-90s Sailing before anything was remotely fleshed out on the wiki

I was one of the many that spent 3m to relocate lesser tele focus and crystal extractor

[last onyx]

what’s the point of owning a mega rare if you’re gonna nerf them? they already have limited use lol

there is no need since we already have ayak, nox halberd and bowfa ingame

if anything those need to be adjusted for how easy they are to obtain

[merry verge]

I think and hope they get to these which are super overdue and discussed and suggested by community for a long time:

Halberds to 5-tick rebalance and some more of other weaponry rebalances

**A Prayer rebalance & Sweep-up:

• Combining 5%/10%/15% attack & strength prayers** to match ranged and magic prayers. Only one offensive prayer per style.

- Finishing a tier 4 melee prayer similar to the rework that was drafted for a Chivalry rework in Royal Titans, but don't rework Chivalry. The tier 4 melee prayer should be a scroll just like Deadeye upgrades Eagle eye to Deadeye, this scroll makes Ultimate str to "Warrior's Resolve", a tier 4 melee prayer with 18% attack and 18% strength.

- Chivalry will disappear when unlocking Piety, inspired from how the Royal Titans' prayer upgrades work. Chivalry and Piety will only ever take up one slot in the prayerbook no matter which one is unlocked or not.

[vivid ruin]

Rapier is due for either an ability or a spec. I suggest an ability of ~15% chance to stab the 3 tiles in front of your character, being that its a mob control stab weapon.

[languid ravine]

maybe attack prayer does something else and cant have at same time as str so prayer book looks the same still

or just change have at same time would prob be enough

[limber creek]

Crystal halberd itself is already in a great spot as a last hit spec weapon. Moving it to 5t woul completely change the speccing meta. Can't get behind it.

[blissful topaz]

bbbbbones

[dire mango]

In the specific suggestion thread there is a general agreement that if they get to be 5t then the specs are still 7t to preserve the current balance.

[limber creek]

thats fire.

I fw it

[dire mango]

Im genuinely curious since you've been regularly coming here to ask. Why is burying bones as a ground item option so incredibly important to you?

[lyric sphinx]

sea boss whennn

im so ready

[ember token]

most likely they have some f2p snowflake account it would benefit

[merry verge]

They could leave the slot empty and locked with empty being a placeholder for future prayers, that way the change won't mess up current ordering and peoples reordered prayerbooks also would be the same, no change only attack prayers removed and empty slots in their place, which may or may not be used in future, but does clear up space in any case:)

[merry verge]

There was a discussion on this in #1345460064470831216 and most people seemed to agree that leaving the spec at 7-ticks would be the best way to balance this, keep spec in same way as before that is

[merry verge]

Woops I just saw this now 😅

[oblique mesa]

DMM update blog apparently coming out around 2pm UK time

[blissful topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/no-hellno-gif-11427369307834711508

im new player

[oblique mesa]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-la-noire-meme-x-button-gif-19259237

[blissful topaz]

i dont know where ardougne is

[blissful topaz]

makes new players gameplay easier

[thick beacon]

id love them to nerf megarares so much. that would be my favrioute integrity change ever

[restive siren]

what about that is integrity

[thick beacon]

those items cripple the need for any other items and also makes it hard for them to create new reward spaces

[limber creek]

someone doesn't have a megarare.

[thick beacon]

ive played game with and without them

[restive siren]

crippling people who spent thousands of hours grinding them, removing the coolness factor behind chase items and basically deleting trillions of gp doesnt exactly scream integrity

they are the rarest items in the game they should be the most powerful

[restive siren]

with ayak and nally powercreep its not that big of a deal anyways anymore

[thick beacon]

then why nerf shadow when eye is right next to it. theres already places eye beats it. theres reasons not to use shadow

shadow hasint even been geninuely strong for a piece of content for like 3years

[restive siren]

yes? i dont want them to nerf shadow

their shadow rebalance doesnt mean it will nerf shadow, it can equally mean they just rework its scaling so it doesnt fuck with future rewards

[thick beacon]

its just my opnion anyways but a lot of ppl do have that perspective on shadow

[restive siren]

and stays at the same powerlevel

[thick beacon]

ye

[thick beacon]

when scy tbow etc end up being best demonbane wep best dragon hunter wep best crush wep best wep even on 0 defence it causes issues. there are reasons to use other weapons but rarely where it matters outside of spec weps imo

[restive siren]

i think its equally stupid you can just buy yourself a 20m synapse and start doing 8-12m per hour moneymaking bosses tbh

[thick beacon]

ye I hate eye I feel like it just nuked value of really having a shadow

[restive siren]

megas should be bis at most content. doesnt need to be by 10% but a bit

and i say that as someone without a mega

[obsidian venture]

This was criminal for about two years till they added more content. At the time of release, scythe was still sub 500

2 years post that they are in a healthier spot

Tbow needs a bit more love still

[thick beacon]

its good for every endgame content idk

like not even shadow is ideal for all 3 raids let alone nex doom colo if u wana really nitpick inferno etc

[obsidian venture]

I’m just speaking boss wise and not endgame wise

Shadow is used at 2/3 and it’s a significant dps upgrade

[thick beacon]

mid game it has same uses though zulrah muspah hydra

u lose 9% dps on muspah due to not having shadow u lose like 30% without not having tbow

just an example

[obsidian venture]

Sure

[restive storm]

giga bis at giant mole

[thick beacon]

eye is better or on par at zulrah to

so its just like what does tbow not have really

[limber creek]

Dragon arrows if you're an ironman apparentaly.

[restive storm]

ill give irons bulk dragon arrow drops the same day they update vetion to drop a pet

[thick beacon]

even without darrows tbow is just that cracked

when i said 30% on muspah that was with amethyst

[brisk hill]

DMM blog DMM blog DMM blog

[obsidian venture]

Stop 😭

[obsidian venture]

It has stats you can tweak moreso to give this impact

That’s kinda why shadow needs a rework

[thick beacon]

ye ive seen them do that 2x at nex and then toa and that still wasint enough to make tbow worse at toa

so they had to give shadow 4x

[obsidian venture]

And Conflictions not working with the shadow is just bad design

Poorly designed band-aid fix of a weapon

[thick beacon]

for me design is only important as how practically its in the game. needs to be adjusted but they release eye and that can compete more then reasonably and even be better.

im also worried that if the scaling is more linear its gona favor eye a lot more and make it overtake

eye is kinda like bp it will scale pretty strong with str bonus

[restive storm]

zmm!

[winter hearth]

strap in, it's a big blog

[restive storm]

youre right lemme take care of 1 thing first

ok time to read the blog

[ember token]

multi revs

[brisk hill]

[limber creek]

for the love of all that is holy please ❤️

[blissful topaz]

how many hours is this

[blissful topaz]

u must be a pure clanner

it failed the first time no second chances

[restive storm]

i dont wanna think ab it man lol

far too many

[blissful topaz]

less or over 1000

[restive storm]

less

[blissful topaz]

500?

[restive storm]

ehh probably less, its probably like 200-300 somewhhere in that range

[blissful topaz]

not bad

[limber creek]

huge dmm blog. gl those of you that wanna play it .

nothing about main game. im out

[fresh forge]

I imagine they will see how cave split works and then consider it for main game after event

[limber creek]

wait multi revs in dmm i just now saw it.

[restive storm]

sorta interested to see how the ragfest of dmm chest plays out lol

[limber creek]

this is good news.

[restive storm]

i still imagine its just gonna be giant teams running around bolting everyone in sight while someone loots it lol

[limber creek]

As is tradition.

[restive storm]

but eh idk really, not too many changes from first blog ig, good that sigils note stuff rather than bank

otherwise i think itll be alright, definitely just a ragfest but will be fun for a few days

[winter hearth]

worth keeping in mind that you're not always going to be absolutely surrounded when they drop though

[restive storm]

yea, my brain is more thinking higher traffic areas (think slayer locations) will just have people notify teams if one happens to drop

[limber creek]

Multi revs to main game when. Or that cheeky 1t teleport delay below 30 so i can kill bots 👀

[restive storm]

and then like 40 people can roll up in ~5 seconds lol

wont be an issue everywhere tho

i dont personally have an issue with it, i think its fun to have team dynamics involved to make friends etc... I just expect to hear about it on reddit lol

[limber creek]

just dont open reddit. Problem solved.

[restive storm]

if therea's one time to ever open reddit its 100% during dmm to watch everyone tweakin

[winter hearth]

Reddit's been pretty positive about Annihilation thus far! lots of people saying that this will be their first time ever jumping in

even if you don't get to loot a single chest I think it'll be a fun time for the whole family etc.

[restive storm]

i will say this is STRESSFUL to plan in 1 week w/ the points changes lol

[ember token]

no i was saying multi revs is in the blog

[oblique mesa]

Any idea if the safe zones have been changed? iirc kourend castle was the only safe zone on the entire continent

[ember token]

if it has been changed then it could also be changed right now on w345 so you could check there

[true talon]

Don’t think they should be nerfed, but rebalanced in a way to not cause problems with gearing. I feel most of them outside shadow have good design balancing levers to pull.

Shadow doesn’t really have a weakness atm

[ember token]

hope they'll consider making the twisted blueprints work like the wilderness poh blueprints, i know people brought it up when they first revealed the wildy poh kit

would be nice to be able to switch to a different poh style without needing to waste a bank space

[still sundial]

will the bowfa orn kit work only on corrupted bowfa?

[ember token]

that seems to be the case yeah

[still sundial]

is a bit strange cause I dont think people pk with that

[ember token]

there's no non-corrupted version of the bow in the cache

[winter hearth]

has to be corrupt yeah

[ember token]

it is consistent with the rest of the crystal/bowfa recolors though

[still sundial]

yea it doesn't matter to me personally, just the argument for the kit coming from DMM was that bowfa is a good pking weapon

which it is, but probably people dont use corrupted version

[ember token]

not only that but also I would guess it's mostly only irons that have corrupted bowfas in the first place

[winter hearth]

loads of people do, only very good PKers are super happy to risk bowfa

[ember token]

still probably the best implementation for it, if you make it work on regular bowfas then you have to deal with people asking for the other colours to work on regular bowfas as well as saeldor

[still sundial]

I'd take it working on saeldor 👀

[silk thicket]

Most crystal pkers are using bowfa +1 so not a huge deal

Bowfa treads is an option for a few 😂

[ember token]

yeah technically as it is, it's inconsistent in that it doesn't work with the blade of saeldor whereas the other crystal recolours do

[restive storm]

are we gonna have to go wipe out all of our w45 accounts at nigel again to play annihilation? if so is that gonna be the day of? or would we be able to wipe them before

[unborn parcel]

is there a specific text channel people can discuss dmm things?

[restive storm]

going live Monday

[unborn parcel]

coolio

[ember token]

i think last time you could wipe them beforehand

but i may be misremembering

[unborn parcel]

i wonder if quest reward antique lamps falls under "Any Quest items that are obtained from automatic Quest unlocks or Quest Lamp unlocks can be reclaimed indefinitely from the Combat Tutors in Lumbridge"

[ember token]

totally you're going to be able to claim infinite lamps

make sure to plan your entire route around it

[restive storm]

eh last time around we had the unlimited starter kits w/ 5k

never say never lol

[unborn parcel]

well at least once i meant haha

[ember token]

fair

[unborn parcel]

and if not at least we have historian minas for a couple lamps =]

i didnt see any mention of grace periods or immunity upon entering new brackets, do we think those are scrapped?

[winter hearth]

1hr per, same as prior DMMs

[oblique mesa]

Can we claim the lamps from the varrock museum for the auto completed quests?
Kinda looks like the intention was to move away from giving out all this free xp right away, but you could in previous events

[unborn parcel]

if you have a moment, do you know if lithe sigil also ignores diary requirements for shortcuts or only agility lvl reqs?

[true talon]

Any plans of making this kit extendable to the blade of saledor?

[winter hearth]

other requirements likely still respected, only Agility ignored, but will ask Manked to double-check

[winter hearth]

unlikely I'm afraid

[true talon]

I see

[delicate sinew]

@winter hearth i have a question regarding the quest lamps on dmm, do you get the xp related to the quests or just the completion of the quest line?

[merry verge]

When you use lamps you do not get the exp rewards or exp lamps usually rewarded from the quests. So some quests are worth doing first or instead of lamping for exp.

At least that's how it's usually been in the last DMMs, but I'm not sure if they've confirmed this still being the case in the blogs(?)

[sacred oracle]

I'm somewhat confused about DMM points. You can use them in main game for cosmetics, but you can also use them in DMM to buy upgrades. If you buy upgrades in DMM, does that mean you have less points to spend in main game? If that's not the case, how does it work?

[brisk hill]

No, points will be separate so you can still kit yourself out in DMM & buy the cosmetics you want

You answered yourself in the other chan silly :p

[junior heron]

Are the bracket xp multipliers listed anywhere or do I have to reference old wiki pages? If they're not, any chance they could get added to blog?

[merry verge]

Previous blog

[merry verge]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/deadman-annihilation-overview--rewards-blog?oldschool=1

All here

[junior heron]

Ah, that would be why I thought I saw them recently. Appreciated

[prime citrus]

Will we be able to purchase previous DMM rewards like the mage cape (i) recolors (with the BH skull on them). - this would be similar to buying previous season's leagues rewards - or will we only be able to buy the new stuff?

[merry verge]

Yes they already confirmed this

Which explains this

[prime citrus]

ty

[sacred oracle]

Thanks!

[tall chasm]

anyone know what time the breaches will happen during dmm

[scarlet dawn]

So can we swap money to osrs without worry of getting (falsely) banned/flagged for illegal activities? Such as RWT

[hard axle]

No lmao

this is always possible to be false flagged or real flagged

[ember token]

you can swap at your own risk

[scarlet dawn]

Thx for verifying

[hard axle]

this is a general rule: anything you do can be mistaken for something else

use the GE, dont do anything too extra or too broken, etc.

[scarlet dawn]

But.. but.. I legitly double money in 1 trade

[hard axle]

[cinder rock]

Looking at Menacing Mage and Ruthless Ranger - Do the curse and cripple from the combat sigils apply to both PvP and PvM? When looking at the Cripple bonus specifically, if it does apply in PvM, would monsters be considered to have 0 run energy therefore doubling the damage?

[true talon]

Dmm is the best money maker in osrs

Even if you can’t pk

It’s gonna be even better without bank keys

Since more people will play

[craggy wind]

https://tenor.com/view/expand-on-that-seth-meyers-late-night-with-seth-meyers-tell-me-more-explain-gif-20031393

[limber creek]

The gold off the rip transfers at rates are very high and stay decent throughout the competition.

[tacit wharf]

also cosmetic's

[quiet plank]

How hard do you think it'll be to get enough points for the crystal ornament kit

I don't even have a bowfa yet but i want that kit on my iron

[round lintel]

Lets get Elemental swords, imagine a watersword so u take advantage of elemental weaknesses like in magic

😄

[round lintel]

last dmm you could get 18k points in like 6 hrs

that was enough for weapon and cape

[tacit wharf]

they'll just come out with a "normal" variant/typeless and make the rest of them completely useless like how magic is now

[strong prairie]

does any1 know if we can claim the quest lamps from historian mians?

[tacit wharf]

the 1 combat skill that has the greatest diversity of weaknesses is basically reduced to a typeless powered staff

[dire mango]

damn when did they bug fix/nerf penguin course 😭 I miss running past the moving ice

[brisk hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233496385370849320/1464348483019608149/image.png?ex=6975244c&is=6973d2cc&hm=cde8286ce65ecea22f4e5b7db6490c2b98aa4dff0a60fdd9c08d8402e2aaba24&

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-math-math-cat-numbers-cat-funny-gif-13385485103134761656

[restive storm]

almost threw up when i saw that

shakes fist in anger

[winged mantle]

What's the point of a pking gamemode if people don't pvp...

[brisk hill]

[scarlet dawn]

Next up: permanent immunity

[restive storm]

[limber creek]

Atp we're gonna have opt in pvp in main game and wilderness is gonna be called the cuddly zone

[winged mantle]

Call it the spicy lands

[scarlet dawn]

I'd love to cuddle at sperm hill

[winged mantle]

Gross

[limber creek]

pvmers dont know where that is bro. XD

[scarlet dawn]

Should raise curiousity - I hope!

[restive storm]

the friendship zone

[limber creek]

Forest of friendship

[restive storm]

IMO they probably should rename it at this point, idk if there's anywhere less WILD than the wilderness

at least singles wildy zones

[limber creek]

TOB is more wild than wilderness lol

[restive storm]

more risk too

[scarlet dawn]

Edgeville dungeon (aka earth warrior skulltrickers)

[limber creek]

Hitting a spellbook swap pneck on bloat flies to stall the hit onto your entire team.

[restive storm]

u know rev caves is down horrendous when im sittin on this bridge man -.-

covering pures -> mains and just absolutely nobody there

[winged mantle]

What if someone telegrab yoinks then teles

[limber creek]

Ur not tryna go fight a dude in 1v1 thats wearing full barrows armor and a dinhs bro that prays mage the whole time?
What are you a noob?

Hes only got 14 brews bro. Smh u cant do that in 2:30?

[restive storm]

wont say its never happened

usually its just i lose the pid war with them coming outta the gate

all in all tho im probably still in the clear about 5-6b

[narrow folio]

Guthixian lake in deep wild.

Nvm im cooked

[limber creek]

nope lmao

[meager flame]

actually its fun without the pvp ngl

i never really knew it before but when the last dmm was ending i wanted the cloak cosmetic on my iron instead of the account i'd been using for dmm

and its like

basically a speed run lol

of hopping brackets and doing the fastest things during immunity to keep getting to the next one

[winged mantle]

No but still the pvp is the sauce

It's fun without but with

[brisk hill]

You’ve never felt the trill of bolting someone down with a bone cbow

[meager flame]

tbh though outside of stuff like that

i dont even really think any dmm i've ever played was very good

like its not terrible or anything but i don't particularly like pvp with the sigils

[winged mantle]

The last one was fun for a bit but the breaches were awful

Getting ragged constantly - people adding you then entitity hiding everyone else

[brisk hill]

If not playing to pvp I’d think the same

[meager flame]

nah its just that honestly

i think the effort level they make for dmm compared to leagues makes a huge difference

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/feelsgood-feels-good-feel-feels-good-gif-1872912188868269535

[meager flame]

its actually weird because i think for dmm specifically

its kind of built for you to be in a clan imo and to have big interest in trying to swap gp

but if you're not really doing that its kind of boring

[restive storm]

until dmm chests appeared there was 0 reason to be in a clan lol

for like the last 3

[meager flame]

sure maybe if your clan actually didnt help each other

but if they did its always been* better lol

[restive storm]

I mean you’re describing mmos entirely, yeah if you’re going to play solo and run around in multi you’re gonna die

But if you’re in singles you’re not at a disadvantage from other people who are in clans

[meager flame]

i mean its more than that

[winged mantle]

Not another black mask

And a ring swap

Wth

[meager flame]

like for example the last one i was playing was mostly a small group of like 5-10 people

and the biggest advantage was honestly just giving each other stuff to get ahead faster

[winged mantle]

Killing gg's?

[restive storm]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

probably

[restive storm]

well yeah man if people are gonna just give you stuff ofc you're going to be ahead lol

[winged mantle]

That looks like a bot setup

[restive storm]

but the only way to prevent that is making everyone an ironman which sounds horrendous

and then killing other players doesnt even matter

in a clan you're usually expected to contribute to others as well

[meager flame]

ya thats why its a little idk broken almost but not exactly

[round lintel]

Question, when im doing deep see trawling I noticed i was still catching without any fine fish offcuts

[limber creek]

bots dont skulltrick outside ferox.

[round lintel]

so what do i need these for?

[meager flame]

i want them to try a dmm where you're intentionally getting put on teams or something

[restive storm]

i mean, we ALL wish that we could be streamers and just given every item to be way ahead

[meager flame]

so more people are playing the way its supposed to go

[winged mantle]

I mean the gear

[restive storm]

but we arent so we just gotta play as normal

[limber creek]

it does lol

[mint tapir]

anyone else having issues with connection to the game?

[limber creek]

its down rn for a lot in #old-school as well

Theyre speaking on it rn

[meager flame]

bc theres honestly a lot of cool stuff going on when you're all trying to collectively do something and people start getting things assigned to them when you're all working towards different goals to get everyone geared asap

but most people that get on dmm get none of that and just run around alone

[brisk hill]

make some friends

[restive storm]

ive always thought this, and in theory you're right its a cool idea, but the reality of it is, for the first 2-3 days if that were to ever happen, if you arent a top 5% pker in the game, your job is strictly farm for the people who are better than you

[limber creek]

you can be his friend! 💪🏻

[restive storm]

nobody would be wasting resources on people who cant go out and pk anyone for their loot

[limber creek]

fuck that i hunt noobs in low brackets as obscure places.

[restive storm]

which is why they're right ^ having friends is a great way to do that

[brisk hill]

i think they'd have to do it on a huge scale tbh

[limber creek]

But now with no bank keys... i guess theres no reason.

[restive storm]

thats all i do man xD ill c u there

[limber creek]

idk if it was last one or one before. But ddarts in bracket one i ate everyone alive i ran into lol

[restive storm]

no matter how big the scale gets, the first prio is always gonna be gear the better players

using the noobie players time

[limber creek]

or maybe was bracket 2. i dont remember

[brisk hill]

i see what u mean ye

[restive storm]

best bet if you want a clan to feed you is get REALLY funny/entertaining and start streaming

otherwise you can go make like 10 years worth of friends and become a top 1% hybrid and then maybe itll happen no guarantees lol

[meager flame]

thats fine though

that naturally happens in any group

like if me and 6 other people are playing the game and some guy is better than me at pvp im giving him the shit to kill people

[brisk hill]

its cool in a team of 6 where u know the guy

[restive storm]

i mean yeah

thats what clans nowadays do too lol

[brisk hill]

i can see it being aggravating for noob #123 in team zammy being asked to give up his vls so streamerman can pk

[restive storm]

can just go with my solution and play solo 😄

[brisk hill]

but its still an interesting idea!

[restive storm]

but it does get boring super fast solo

i think most of my friends arent coming back so idk what imma do

solo B1 demon ig

[limber creek]

we can team up and kill timmy's.

💪🏻

[restive storm]

ong let someone think theyre safe questing in b1 cuz they have no risk

not today

https://tenor.com/view/rko-wwe-wrestling-randy-orton-gif-15820595

[floral blaze]

If I see a bronze skull it's ON SIGHT

[oblique mesa]

You see a bronze skull and someone with IM in their name next to them. Which one are you choosing

[restive storm]

im teleing back to lummy just to find them again when they respawn

[brisk hill]

sad

por que no los dos?

[true talon]

All i need is 27k points thats pretty easy lol

[restive storm]

not with me lurkin 😈

[true talon]

you aint shit boy

[oblique mesa]

Brother I saw the news post, sad you will not be participating this year

[brisk hill]

[limber creek]

IM. All the way.

Because i know hes a straight prey target tbh.

[restive storm]

most likely to have no idea what theyre doing

[limber creek]

This has actually provided me some meaningful insight.
I will now include IM in my name for the dmm season.

[brisk hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1328495344543203392.webp?size=160&animated=true

[bronze kernel]

Inb4 you see a massive cash risk and all of it is in empty buckets

(Still remember that one time I was at a drop party and got the stack of 1M empty buckets. Which was unironically the most valuable drop in the whole thing)

[unborn parcel]

im a little concerned about the 150 point thieving sigil 🤔

guards from lvl 40 will be 90k gp/hr and 1.4m xp/hr
ardy knights will be 150k gp/hr from lvl 55 only + 2.5m xp/hr
heroes will be over 600k raw gp/hr at lvl 80 with 4.8m+ xp/hr

all of this in safe zones for only 150 points as you need no quest unlocks

seems more like a 1.5k or even 2k+ sigil to me

*without rogues outfit!

[floral blaze]

It only works outside of safe zones

[unborn parcel]

is that all skilling sigils?

if this is true then i hope lletya is also a safe zone kek

[fresh forge]

Underground Pass is a safe zone cause ain’t nobody doing that quest on DMM

[true talon]

Its crazy to think i am only 66% of the way done.....

[fresh forge]

Almost enough cannonballs to kill a tern

[meager flame]

its low key hilarious that we have to wait for a summit to hear about sailing combat

they really milked it

[ember token]

its really sounding like at this point it's gonna be a sailing summer sweep-up kind of thing and it'll be months still before we get changes

[idle rapids]

its crazy theyd rather add holy moleys than let us make incindiary and chainshot cannonballs when all the components are already in the game

[meager flame]

i dont think this is a good reason but

the reason is probably because that's intended for the quest they've now delayed indefinitely while they work on making sailing combat something that should be in the game

[idle rapids]

Feels like the skill shouldve had another year in the oven to get that working prior to launch

[meager flame]

they would say that if they waited they'd never release it or whatever but tbh

i agree with you

i think they didn't release sailing with like

a satisfying conclusion if that makes any sense

not that any skill is ever done but they almost always have at least one thing to really go for

with sailing they just released a way to train but not a reason to train

[limber creek]

its what reddit wanted brother. Don't act like reddit isn't the entire playerbase and everyones opinions at once. /s

[minor whale]

Holy Moleys is literally art team work
It's not comparable lol

The people responsible for making holy moleys and making chainshot and incendiary work are entirely separate

And if they're reworking sailing combat may as well do it all at once instead of release it now just to rework entirely in a month

[ember token]

my take is that I don't think another year of development time would've significantly changed anything

[limber creek]

then why is it going to change anything now? not even a year later.

homies did a couple of port tasks and said ship it

[ember token]

uh because it's actually out and everyone is actually playing it and giving feedback

[small anvil]

Yeah more time in development would have seen similar issues tbh

[tacit wharf]

people fail to realize is that the playerbase will always be able to put in more hours of testing then dev team can in years

[small anvil]

Osrs team isn't the best at testing or really knowing what their release will be

[limber creek]

if they even killed one monster at the sea they would have known lmao.

[small anvil]

Without seeing it live

[limber creek]

There was no testing was the issue. Not that their testing wasn't enough.

[small anvil]

More time could have made better islands

[ember token]

another year of dev time probably would've given us all the oceans filled out and more interesting islands yeah

[small anvil]

But like they want to milk it over more releases anyway

[chrome lantern]

I still don't get why incendiary and chain cannonballs are supposed to take 2x cballs per

[ember token]

and maybe they would've picked up on some of the issues with xp balancing

[chrome lantern]

Like that just seems like it would make the issue of cballs worse while still taking up the consumable rubidium

[limber creek]

they couldnt even do the math on crystal extractor bro. what are you on about lmao

[minor whale]

Chain makes sense it's 2 cannonballs tethered together

If it does moderately more damage then it'd increase dps

Incendiary no idea

[chrome lantern]

The chain doesn't do any more damage it just snares iirc

The incendiary is also same damage but burn

The chain seems entirely useless and the incendiary is just "lol you have half as much ammo"

[small anvil]

Chain would let you kite to take less dmg I guess

[clever goblet]

the last thing that i wish to be is a streamer. lol. let alone just given everything, really defeats the entire purpose in my opinion

[small anvil]

But people found safe spots instead

(I don't think they intended safe spots to exist)

[meager flame]

i mean it should have at least with combat

and if it wouldn't have

that means really scary things

[small anvil]

A longer deadline doesn't always mean a better product

[ember token]

yeah i mean didnt they say some of these things like the extractor were a relatively late addition... seems pretty realistic that they wouldve caught on at some point with an extra year of dev time and testing

[small anvil]

Jagex kinda reminds me of the people who get it good enough and ship

[meager flame]

well

idk how much you've ever been involved with game dev

but you just described the general state of everything

[small anvil]

Yeah

That's why more time not equaling better balance on release isn't any sort of guarantee

[meager flame]

longer deadlines usually result in more time doing nothing lol that sounds like im calling them all lazy but like

its just how it usually goes

they spend a long time thinking and talking and kind of doing nothing until suddenly its the worst job on earth and you crunch like crazy bc you're out of time

[small anvil]

If they didn't consider people using extractor for XP specifically they're not gonna math out the rate

And placing it not by the helm

(also who knows if the build spots were finalized when)

[meager flame]

but combat imo at least is in a state where its just like

i cant take them seriously if they say they thought it was done

they play this game they know it sucked

[small anvil]

Jagex releases feel like no one tests on a relatively finished build

Unless it's boss encounters

[icy relic]

"Bro trust us it's supposed to feel like hitting cows"

[limber creek]

and i believe it wouldve been the same shit lol. to each their own

seems pretty realistic they couldve caught on by doing grade school math

[small anvil]

Some things you just don't think of

So you never do the math

[icy relic]

I think extractor was fine, it was a good reward for the last barracuda trial

[small anvil]

Extractor probably lived in their minds as the thing for trials

[icy relic]

It was just a convenient scapegoat

[small anvil]

It giving giant XP probably happened at some point and no one paid it any mind

[meager flame]

also this lmao

[icy relic]

Easy for them to be like oops we messed up!

[meager flame]

probably because they wanted any other version of ammo to be 40x more efficient instead of 20x

[icy relic]

When it is a lever they could hit without really addressing anything else

[meager flame]

im like 99% sure they didn't sanity check the math one time ever for cannonballs

[small anvil]

They were too married to the 4 balls per bar from other cannonballs

[meager flame]

because its like

[small anvil]

If a bar made 8 the cost would be less crazy

[meager flame]

imagine dragon arrows costed ~30-40k right now

[small anvil]

But rn balls have to rely on in game sources

And bars add 0 volume

Because it's more expensive

[meager flame]

thats what it would look like if they had the same usage rate as cannonballs im assuming

[icy relic]

Bigger issue is no avas + you want to use 2 cannons but they both do reduced damage

[meager flame]

i dont think anyone would look at that and think it was great lmao

[small anvil]

I don't think Ava's is the solution tbh

[meager flame]

i mean they've dug themselves an insane hole with cannonballs

[small anvil]

Just more plentiful sources and a bar to cannonball ratio that makes more sense

[icy relic]

Avas makes your ammo last 4x longer

How is it not the solution

[meager flame]

because if ship combat is supposed to be a thing

it cant be 20x less efficient than our other ammo as is

unless they want to start making 200 cannonball per bar

[small anvil]

Ava's is like a crazy powerful thing that greatly reduces the value of any arrow because consumption is so low

[meager flame]

yeah but you need that

[icy relic]

What

[meager flame]

otherwise people cant afford to go play the game

[oblique mesa]

Cannonballs are not some moneymaker that real players do. Its Irons or bots that make them

Its okay to devalue them

[icy relic]

How do you look at the price of dragon arrows and be like yeah fuck avas ruining the price of arrows

[meager flame]

like im bitching about cannonballs and i have bils and access to thousands of bars on my irons

imagine the guy that just starts sailing on his new account

dude is fucked lmao

[small anvil]

It's only dragon arrows that have any value

Basically

[icy relic]

That is not true

[small anvil]

And that's cuz they're supply constrained by the heads

Arrows below amethyst are basically useless

Rune have value cuz of alch

[meager flame]

they're not useless they're just low cost

which is good

people should be able to fire their weapons and play the game without sweating the cost of existing

[icy relic]

That is exactly how ammo should be

[limber creek]

if you said this to me like 15 years ago we'd throw hands LOL.

[small anvil]

Note I'm not advocating the deletion of avas

Just that the value of arrows is warped by such a significant saving effect

[meager flame]

its actually more than avas though

you also just flat out get multiple times more ammo per bar

like they absolutely fucked people with cannonballs lol

[small anvil]

Yeah they were tied to steel

And that makes it silly

[icy relic]

Making cannonballs is not sustainable because you burn them so much faster than arrows

[small anvil]

80% saving on Ava's is absolutely nutty

And 80% saving on cannonballs would also be crazy

[meager flame]

ya thats why i was saying none of this makes sense without avas etc unless the solution is like

200 balls per bar or some other nonsense

[icy relic]

It's not nutty, it is just required to make the skill work

[small anvil]

I think doubling wouldn't be that awful

[icy relic]

Because otherwise you would have to bring like a 100k stack to even do anything

[small anvil]

Balance of arrows stemmed from after Ava's existed

You'd tweak other levers

[meager flame]

doubled wouldn't be enough thats still like 1/5th the value you get for darts and like 1/10th arrows iirc

[small anvil]

If it was a 50% saving

[meager flame]

i'd have to go check the numbers again but basically its like 8 darts and 15* arrows per bar with 80% chance to save

[small anvil]

How many bars are you turning into arrows lol

[meager flame]

meaning that its actually closer to like

[icy relic]

I actually cannot believe my eyes right now

Like in the year 2026 someone is saying Avas is bad for devaluing arrows

[small anvil]

I'm saying Ava's had giant implications long term

It was a decision made early on

[meager flame]

basically you get to shoot each arrow or dart 5 times before its gone

on average

so if you made 8 cannonballs thats still 5 times less than you get in ammy darts for example

with like

substantially more time spent farming to even do that to begin with

[small anvil]

They could make it so you should salvage your kills for cannonballs back

[ember token]

no one really wants ammo to be expensive

[small anvil]

Which would be thematic in a bunch of ways

[icy relic]

Fuck no

[meager flame]

so realistically on paper the math is already telling you there's an insane divide between arrows/darts/cannonballs

[icy relic]

Why jump through hoops for a basic functionality

[meager flame]

before you even get into the additional effort for getting the ore

and making the bars

compared to like mining amethyst

the big tldr though is that its so bad its probably not worth interacting with

just go to iron bill every server restart or the ge

aka very bad game design lol

[icy relic]

Mith cannonballs are also terrible

The damage goes crazy in the last few tiers

[meager flame]

yeah but the gap will never be big enough to make up for the absurd time investment of making the better ones

it'll always have been right to just shoot the shitty cannonballs and save your time

[small anvil]

I feel like jagex just didn't do the math of the price per ball if made from bars

And expected people to be turning bars into balls

[meager flame]

they also did absolutely 0 favors with that new place to make them

[small anvil]

Cuz the sources besides that aren't really adequate

[meager flame]

by making the route there take long enough to significantly cut into the bonus of using it

[small anvil]

They could have just made it a different caliber cannon for ships

[meager flame]

idk why they didn't just make everything besides steel use different numbers

[small anvil]

And make 10 balls per bar or something

They wanted double mold

To work

I think was like a big thing

[meager flame]

i mean it still could

idk if anyone would really be mad that the model looked like it was for 8 cannonballs but you actually made 20 or whatever lol

[small anvil]

And they wanted steel cannonballs to carry over too

[meager flame]

yeah they could just leave steel as is

if you're a human you shouldn't use those on your ship anyways

[small anvil]

But yeah I think they didn't sanity check the numbers so instead they're being pressured into making each ball worth 5 with an Ava's thing

[limber creek]

double ammo mold at frost dragon dungeon does work. but even then lmao

[icy relic]

Without avas dragon cannonballs will never be worth using unless they increase the quantity from drops so much that they aren't worth anything anyway

It does not work

[small anvil]

(surely they will increase in drop volume with new content though)

[meager flame]

im also pretty sure they just checked out of reality when it came time to realize you were firing 2 cannons and the npcs do negative dps with them

[icy relic]

Please tell me how long it takes to make enough cannonballs for one hour of combat

[true talon]

d arrows like 2.3k ech right now lol

[meager flame]

i dont even know why they dont do any dps

like

lol

[icy relic]

No you dont understand man avas is ruining the very important arrow economy

[meager flame]

you already told them what to do those are your cannonballs

you made the ship

etc

[small anvil]

Zzz don't straw man what I said

[meager flame]

like why are people being penalized for using the features of their boat

[true talon]

think they nuking bots is what cause the d arrows to go up, as when there is a lot of bots they go down

[small anvil]

I just said it's a very impactful decision game design wise

[true talon]

been here at frost dragons for over a week an watching superiors bones go from 20k to 27k has been wild

[small anvil]

And it long term caused lower quality arrows to go to 0 value

Besides alch

Or store sell price

[meager flame]

the funny thing is on top of the npcs doing terrible dps for no reason

your character just mysteriously does no damage with no explanation in game

[icy relic]

Actually I was wrong

[meager flame]

lmao like we all know how it works now if you bother to look it up but what were they thinking

[true talon]

Ship combat vs normal mobs not even bosses and you cant protect prayer and are forced to use ship repair kits......

why we make ship food?

[icy relic]

Arrows have a 20% chance to break when fired

This was baked into the start of the game

[jagged marsh]

I wonder what they could do to revamp ship combat

[meager flame]

well

[icy relic]

Avas just makes it so you don't have to pick up arrows

[meager flame]

there are several routes

but i would say that your crewmates if they're the best ones should do full damage

your character should probably do full damage

[jagged marsh]

Ammo Recycler
Remove NPC Damage Cap
Add Hand Cannons?

[meager flame]

and there should be either a lot more cannonballs

or a way to save them

honestly

[jagged marsh]

Hand Cannons would be really cool I think

[meager flame]

probably both

[icy relic]

What I pitched a long ass time ago

[limber creek]

they could just scrap the entire concept and let you hit the mobs for full damage.

[icy relic]

make a new icon/head hotspot

[jagged marsh]

They wouldn't work on normal land NPCs, but it'd let you attack with ship cannonballs

[meager flame]

i just dont understand the insanity of the crewmates being terrible at firing the cannon

[icy relic]

you can mount an accumulator or a slayer helm

[small anvil]

Cannonball supply is just criminally low and they need to either increase the supply via bars (not currently economically viable at current prices) or increase the supply via shop/NPC drop

Or reduce usage

[icy relic]

giving you the bonuses of the avas on the ship

[jagged marsh]

Also increase the radius so they can both fire at the same time without wiggling

[meager flame]

i swear some guy was making this and just pulling out all the stops to waste as many cannonballs as possible because muh economy

[icy relic]

or giving you slayer helm bonuses without wearing it

[meager flame]

but forgot the game is supposed to also be fun

[icy relic]

also bounties should realistically have been lumped together with slayer

separate sailing slayer master

[meager flame]

the crewmate controls confuse me a lot

like

so you know how we have that whole interface on the side where you turn the eyes on and off so the npcs ignore you or dont

just why

[icy relic]

command crew to follow your target, click target, disable follow

lol