game-update

[round lintel]

task

[hasty shard]

very quick tangent on 'kneejerks' i found it so funny reddit called salvaging changes kneejerk when they literally said week 1 they're waiting to sort data before making any changes

genuinely exhausting place

[round lintel]

i got to 99 with only 1 barrel

but lucky it paid for 2

xd

[tacit wharf]

taking anything at face-value while talking about reddit is beyond dumb

[round lintel]

Zulrah being particularly unpleasant today

my hally keeps hiting 0s and tanz phase keeps ranging b2b2b2b2b 40s

[meager flame]

tbf they did turn around and make a bunch of poorly thought out changes and had to then keep working with it

although i'd argue their biggest failing there was just keeping what they were planning top secret

and then finding out there was a bunch of stuff everyone immediately thought wasn't right and having to fix it

where if they'd just communicated they probably would've been a lot more efficient

bc most of the changes weren't even about the actual exp/hr even though a lot of people talked about it

the real fixes were making sure they weren't nerfing people who were actually trying to play the game by too much

correcting their screw up with the spawn points etc

oh and making sure the tuning was still acceptable for people actually salvaging the salvage

[chrome lantern]

I do think xp-wise the changes were good but yeah it was just, “I hope you like half the salvage lol” and screwed over the already megarare drop rates

Jagex said before release that salvaging was too generous , then it released even better than they expected (with extractor rate) and they nerfed it , then backpedaled because people felt entitled to 100k/hr

[round lintel]

idk if this counts as a bug but protect item doesnt protect any extra item in this set up

like tbow treads and ven ring are the 3 kept items the others have kits and shouldnt count but even protect item doesnt change it

I honestly dislike this death fee system

:/

[hasty shard]

use claws over emberlight btw

[chrome lantern]

Use darklight

[round lintel]

is my main idc about the death cost tbh is just that i realized it cuz i misclicked my prayer at lvl 8

and activated protect item

before dying

and noticed death fee was the same

[hasty shard]

darklight is a tick slower

[chrome lantern]

Doesn’t matter, you never hit the boss with it

Larvae are no delay

[round lintel]

guess we are missing the point here, protect item isnt working as it should

at least not in this set up

shows the same amount of items protected with or without

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I saw what you said, idk how it’s supposed to work for detection of kits or not but if you think there’s a bug report it in game

I would expect it still tries to protect kits because they do still have value

[round lintel]

ya'll smarter than me just wanted an opinion before i submitted it

[chrome lantern]

You did protect your most valuable items idk

[round lintel]

even if i removed the kits from void

so, i removed all the kits, turns out kitted things are protected but your protect item prayer is invalidated by it after 4th item+

[hasty shard]

doesnt matter if you dont die anyways

[round lintel]

tru

[hasty shard]

i have most definitely wacked the boss with melee enough times to where using darklight annoyed me

[minor whale]

It's working as expected
Protect item adds your total guaranteed protected items by +1 but kitted items act as conditionally protected so the prayer just does nothing for them if they're in the slot another item would be protected in

[limber wolf]

off topic but you can parch runepouch and quiver

if you parch your void, maybe protect item will do something if the kitted limit is 4 like stated

[round lintel]

why couldnt they make Doom's boulder projectiles work better? Mage att looks closer than the range and turns out range is first and my brain couldnt pick up boulder color and even sometimes i do but in my mind i have it closer than the other and flip

[nocturne solstice]

It works pretty good if you just remember what color it is

[hard axle]

Or just die to it until it’s beaten into your muscle memory

[nocturne solstice]

True

With void its like 15k death fees anyway

[obsidian venture]

I’m still paying 410k!

I dislike that the death fees are so low for this content. Shouldn’t have made darklight/slayer staff work

Especially for content that has 3 valuable drops

[nocturne solstice]

I dont really blame darklight/slayer staff for it. Moreso void since thats like 4 pieces of gear with 0 value

It not being more vulnerable to melee is also a factor imo

[obsidian venture]

Also just useful for car phase

In max + void it’s 410k atm

[nocturne solstice]

It feels like they were hinting towards it during the promos but with the unblockable melee attacks it does I dont think anyone will bother learning aside from the VAs

CAs*

But if it was a melee boss then the melee gear would definitely have upped the fees

bringing 2 sets is so sweaty 💀

[round lintel]

My brain just doesnt work when one is in Narnia and the other is next to me, but the one in Narnia comes first

[nocturne solstice]

I dont blame the game for this, just lack of practice. There is strength in repetition

[zenith pike]

I just wait to the last second and decide which is touching me more badly

[round lintel]

maybe im just bad

but is not in deep lvls this happens only 2-4

[zenith pike]

did it not count your post 8s?

[round lintel]

I dont bring brews so i never do 8+ on my iron

[zenith pike]

I didn’t use brews for my 8+

[round lintel]

i mean i get it you bragging about being a gamer

im not doing Doom for enjoyment but just to quick regain my treads

[zenith pike]

no, Im saying your ironmanness ain’t a debuff

Plus the base loot is kind of dookie, might as well give yourself the highest chance for treads

[round lintel]

I dont go for 8 in runs with alot of bones sadly im still 96 prayer

scobow dps at 8 is ass

[zenith pike]

I can’t agree with that, you aren’t killing the boss during car but it’s very good dps even without rigour

[round lintel]

sometimes i get like 7 sets of boulder before i get the charge phase

i get annoyed

im going for the ez route

is not that deep i dont enjoy doom so im just doing mostly 1-7

[zenith pike]

It is what it is

[round lintel]

just need my treads back

[zenith pike]

Wait what happened to your boots exactly

[round lintel]

I quit my iron and dropped everything to my main

then realized i was bored on my main

and came back rebuilding in my iron

[analog crow]

Unlucky

[round lintel]

which i finally enjoy again

i was at a point where it was getting annoying just getting lbs at toa, nex is soo painful

and tob well i was dry for drops (not for scythe)

and it was all i had left

[zenith pike]

Double post bordem activities into relapsing to grinds you liked doing before

Jagex got you in the vice grip

[round lintel]

Just got my bgs and dwh back during this weekend

dont hate me but

i got a little spooned at Yama

95% solos

I did get reeeeally unlucky on bowfa

almost 1200kc

I got unlucky getting the bludgeon (something i never had) almost 900kc for it

I got unlucky on Nox hally (didnt have one also) 1k for it

1k for rancour

[zenith pike]

Rng is rng, spooned or dry as long as you’re doing something is all that matters

[round lintel]

rn im just trying to get treads and oathplate helm possibly

then dt2 bosses

then cerb and hydra

and back to solo cox

[zenith pike]

lol, ready to do all of those grinds over again?

[round lintel]

Doom is a grind, Hydra i hate hydra

but solo cox is something i do enjoy

Vard, I love vard

thats why my rsn: Carnifex Max

[zenith pike]

I see

[dire mango]

can you really say it's the easy route when you'll spend much more time there due to not wanting to learn w8+?

[round lintel]

never really heard people gettin crazy lucky at 8+

[dire mango]

8+ has better rates. And you waste less time at the early waves and less time running back to the boss.

and you can practice the timing for double boulders at all the earlier waves because the shadows+rocks have the same timing independent of wave

[hard axle]

Jmod confirmed it recently and said it was just cope

8+ is better

[icy relic]

It's just sampling bias

A lot more non deep delve clears

Cuz everyone has to go through 1-7 to get there

If you can do 8+ you should always go as far as you can

[true talon]

Change left click to descend go till death, out of everything or glowy hole.

Only way to make doom enjoyable

[amber moth]

how i get there ?

[zenith pike]

Cave sw of trouble brewing on the beach

[amber moth]

damn i hate that way

[bronze kernel]

Yes. This is one of the more annoying steps.

[winged mantle]

If only there was a grapple shortcut

[median raven]

Suprised it's only bowfa and not salad blade getting a ornamet kit from dmm

[small anvil]

No one uses salad anywhere but esp not pking. Bowfa is really good for pking

[cunning perch]

Question… the minus XP lamps narrowly failed during the Bounty Hunter rewards poll awhile back. Has the team discussed revisiting or resolving this with revised constraints, or is it considered closed for now?

[tacit wharf]

not that i know of, not that it should ever be a thing to begin with

[nocturne solstice]

It hasnt been discussed iirc since the rewards poll

and thats like 6 years ago

[idle rapids]

I dooubt that would pass a poll

Its like polling if UIM should get a storage box of 50 things

Making the gamemode easier for no real reason

[rigid sonnet]

True. UIM should get 4 reduced inv slots

[idle rapids]

Super UIM

[tacit wharf]

didnt they though, poh storage

[idle rapids]

UIMs have gotten lots of storage options yeah but its never added just for the purpose of making the gamemode easier like minus exp lamps would be

There's no benefit to the main gamemode of adding -exp lamps

[true talon]

We need 1 inventory slot extreme hard core UIM, the mode for all the insane people

[idle rapids]

Rn tutorial man mode is possible

You can get like 50 prayer xp/hr

[median raven]

justice for salad blade

[idle rapids]

Hmm wdym? I dont think its stats have changed since it came out its just less relevant since there's more options now

[zenith pike]

35

[chrome lantern]

I have not

[cunning perch]

last time it was voted on was 2023 and received 66% yes and needed 70% approval to be passed. Purely curious if anyone had heard anything more since it was only 4% away from passing. Seems like something that they would’ve revisited as most things that come close to passing they listen to the feedback and make the tweaks and move forward with it.

[ember token]

lots of things have gotten close to passing and never have been revisited

lots of things have also barely passed and never been revisited

[cunning perch]

Absolutely agree with that. What inspired the question was the number of pvp and bounty hunter tweaks and additions they’ve been adding. Granted it’s still not a ton but more than the long hiatus that game play had for awhile.

Could see a world where they would reintroduce that as a topic of discussion as they continue to focus on the pvp player base 🤷‍♂️

[round lintel]

The thing is whats better for Jagex? you dumping the acct you fruit up (pure, zerk, w/e build you ruined) and make a new one, pay membership for it and start all over

or give you an xp lamp to remove xp and keep the same acct?

[chrome lantern]

I don't think negative xp ever makes sense but I'm not opposed to giving people the option to completely prevent options that give you xp in "locked" skills (never nullifying or reversing xp)

[round lintel]

People dont quit for ruining a pure

it may negatively impact the game with people completing certain quests then going for those xp lamps

[tacit wharf]

was going to say maybe accidental att but pretty sure thats already a rl plug-in, and if your dumb enough to complete a quest w/o looking at its xp rewards, then thats on them

that guy that killed a skeeter for agility xp was funny though

[round lintel]

As I understood the story behind that was him killing several mosquitos

so it was on him not noticing the xp

Maybe things like the Medallion from sailing I understand since nobody knew

[tacit wharf]

i mean, that was on them for again, not checking before hand

it was new item

[chrome lantern]

Yeah using unknown items and actions on a restricted account is a bit too bold

[round lintel]

but again giving negative xp is not something viable in the game just to please the 1k people who fruit up their skilling/pure acct

[tacit wharf]

i agree

[round lintel]

if they ever agree to it, whats next? giving hcim a way to get their hardcore back?

[tacit wharf]

i also think, all hc ironman should have hcgim death triggers, there should be no safe deaths for them

[chrome lantern]

Soul Wars, LMS, and that's it. Or just say screw it and no to those too

[tacit wharf]

its just confusing to new players

[round lintel]

is crazy they made ghcim to have those death mechanics

not that i am against

but why wasnt that the norm on solo hcim?

[tacit wharf]

i mean, its quite simple, u die, lose yr hc status

[chrome lantern]

Really the first question has to be, why was it allowed to be that way on Fight Caves

[tacit wharf]

it was a different era when hcim was made

[chrome lantern]

Fight Caves/Inferno and CoX are the most egregious ones

[tacit wharf]

agreed

and as for those who have already died during that content, simplest is to just grandfather them, and any death after counts

[hasty shard]

ah but you see, crab bucket mentality

[meager flame]

tbh players should have way more control over the exp their accounts gain than they do

but jagex probably gets scared off from really trying to make things better because our community is a little special sometimes

[chrome lantern]

^I think anything beyond this is a bit too far

[meager flame]

ya its just like as a system in general

well its really multiple systems interacting

there are a lot of edge cases or weird things that people build accounts around that could be a lot more logical

like for example

people can't do certain quests because they reward exp and some people don't want them to ever do other quests because they also reward items that they feel restricted accounts shouldn't be able to use

but in reality jagex could just slap a requirement like def on the item and not ruin your account

while letting you complete quests if you wanted to

stuff like that

[chrome lantern]

Nah

Quest xp rewards are implicit requirements to use any rewards

If they made that the case then even the QP from those quests would need requirements

[meager flame]

yeah but thats probably how it should've always been

[chrome lantern]

Let me not paraphrase things I've written 50 times, sec

[meager flame]

like i cant really come up with a good reason to basically lock the quest behind the exp instead of the rewards if you get what i mean

[chrome lantern]

If a quest rewards xp, then currently the xp that quest gives you is a requirement to access content that comes after the quest, so this would be removing requirements that things already have. The only way to not be removing requirements would be if you make all quest rewards from that quest require the levels you would have gotten from that xp, including all items, locations, training methods, and even quest point

[meager flame]

like just from a top down design pov its kind of silly and probably confusing for some people the way it currently is

[chrome lantern]

I disagree

[meager flame]

you could also just put the actual requirement on starting the quest

rather than surprise fuck your account at the end of the quest

i think if they did it all again

it would never be like it is

[tacit wharf]

rune gloves now req 40 def to wear

[chrome lantern]

I mean you can say that but I don't think that amounts to much other than throwing the XP rewards for quests on the Quest Journal

[meager flame]

but yeah just off the top of my head i would probably put the requirement up front for quests that unlock idk

a special area or something and otherwise i'd try to add requirements to items that might be op or whatever

it seems weird to just like force the reward exp from quests though

[tacit wharf]

barrows gloves req'ing 70 def like the other barrows equipment

[meager flame]

theres also an underlying secondary discussion about like

"if players could somehow complete this quest should we even stop them with something silly like the quest reward at the end"

[chrome lantern]

I think you're overcomplicating it more tbh

[meager flame]

thats mostly about level 3s though

[tacit wharf]

too much tip toeing

[meager flame]

well

its not even really tip toeing its more about supporting how people actually play the game and what it actually ends up meaning

[chrome lantern]

-Quests reward xp
-Things you get after these quests require you to receive that xp
-Things after quests require the xp you get from completing the quests
-If you choose to limit your build, you can easily learn what xp quests reward

[meager flame]

like if you dont want a pure to complete x quest but it doesn't actually give them anything but qp

[chrome lantern]

I wouldn't want them to complete a quest they currently can't complete even if it only gives QP

[meager flame]

you're really worried about them gaining access to an item from another quest they couldn't previously get the numbers for

and if thats bad

[chrome lantern]

QP still matters for stuff like slayer blocks

[meager flame]

probably just add requirements to the items

otherwise you're gonna be in some weird scenario every time you make more quests

and trying to think about what it will mean if they can get more done etc

[chrome lantern]

Jagex has done astronomical bending over backwards to cater to restricted accounts for a long time

Excessively so

The best solution is to just not consider them at all

And make new quests with requirements and rewards that are consistent with the quests

[meager flame]

thats actually bad though because it can go both ways

by ignoring it you could also potentially make things even less balanced

[chrome lantern]

The moment you enter with the premise of needing to balancing things around restricted accounts you've already failed

[meager flame]

yeah combat level did fail its design for pvp

and now they have to make sure it makes sense lol

[chrome lantern]

PvP builds, skillers, ironmen, anything

[round lintel]

bunch of doom bots

no wonder why treads are so cheap now

[tacit wharf]

what u mean an account that has no other stats than the needed requirements to kill a specific boss and then does nothing but kill that specific boss thousands of times, isnt a real person but a bot/gold farmer

"gasp" the audacity

well hell, that didnt take long to find one on the front page as suspicious , seems like all he does is nex/cox/doom/colo

[round lintel]

Then i go to priff in a regular world

and bunch of thieving bots and there's the king of them

[haughty plaza]

Even a if and else if script would catch those bots xD

[restive siren]

What

[nocturne solstice]

No naming and shaming, just report em and move on

[nocturne solstice]

It would also ban a lot of innocent players.

[oblique mesa]

Yeah bunch of 200m blood shard thieving bots too.
Hopefully anti cheat team is back soon

[torpid delta]

if = bot

ban

pretty simple tbh

[obsidian venture]

https://tenor.com/view/lil-yachty-drake-gif-21712801

[tawny tide]

Are we getting something juicy tomorrow

[quiet plank]

I hope

But nothing has been polled recently so probably not

[frail bough]

Probably nothing until mid feb

[true talon]

Personally id love to see the removal of quest exp mandate and just let you take it if you want it.

my friend recently ruined a pure by talking daero XD

i know that was optional but it was still funny as he thought he gave XP lamps

[zenith pike]

lol, lmao even

[zenith pike]

Probably

[chrome lantern]

Nah that's entirely a skill issue

Like I said before though

The solution isn't making xp optional or nullifying xp

It's just putting in hard-stops to prevent you from doing actions that give you certain types of xp

Restricted your defense xp? Can't turn in Dragon Slayer. Restricted all your combat skills (skiller)? Can't turn in Priest in Peril

[dawn jackal]

i feel like that takes away some from existing restricted accounts but also probably no one cares

desigining around player created restrictions is silly though

[chrome lantern]

In what sense

[dawn jackal]

some of the challenge in those accounts is not goofing up

[chrome lantern]

I don't really see that as a challenge but definitely something that should be expected if you play a restricted account

Nobody enjoys "don't mess up"

But equally there's not really value in "let me do everything even the things I don't meet the requirements for" because then your account isn't really even restricted

[zenith pike]

The skill restrictions are usually in place for “three” reasons

1. Time gating
2. Account type gating
3. Recommended stat line requirements

The first two are explicitly for the benefits of both content accessibility and player to player interactions/ balance. Both of which can be talked about if are necessary on a quest by quest basis with a good enough argument.

The third one however was up to jagex to decide to prepare players for the quest as a precaution and is usually the culprit for all of these xp condition problems

As such, if players can complete it without the pre-requisite stats at a level/ease jagex is satisfied with, there shouldn’t ever be a reason as to why it atleast can’t be requested to change

If the point of osrs is to be the free-form, modular mmo that exists with the purpose of facilitating everything so as long as the players can agree on changes, we should really look into how we expect free reign from how jagex designs RS with how rigid some of us are in our own beliefs how the game (and others who play the game) should be run

[ionic tartan]

I think the simplest explanation is that account builds are made for the purpose of restrictions on gear, like how ironman is restrictions on trading.

You're assuming "area access" or "content access" part of that restriction when it's not.

Ex1: an account build like 1 pray is not for the purpose of locking away the entirety of morytania.

Ex2: ironman is not for the purpose of locking away the shield of arrav questline (hence why Jagex changed that quest to accommodate ironman)

[chrome lantern]

Taking on a restriction comes with all the limitations that go with it, and anything other than that is just asking for your restriction to be made easier. Restrictions are chosen with either a perceived benefit in mind (PvP builds) or a self-imposed challenge. Removing restrictions simply because it's inconvenient for your chosen build is contrary to the concept of sacrificing for a perceived benefit and is also contrary to the intent of imposing a restriction on yourself for added challenge. As mentioned, you can choose to play this game how you want, but if you intend to use the stats of the game itself then you're going to encounter limitations. If you don't like those limitations, there is nothing stopping you from changing your own restriction; there are plenty of people that have played on 13 defense accounts in order to gain access to fairy rings and slayer helmets on "pures"

[austere mulch]

Account restrictions reasonably come with expectations to what you can and can’t access and you go into that restriction, ideally, understanding and accepting those expectations

[ionic tartan]

That's begging the question: the discussion is about the merit of making things available, not that those things being unavailable is somehow central to their restrictions.

[true talon]

ya and if you want to do ds2 or the fremnik line on a pure, you should be able to. your already restricted in your gear and the back pack dont matter anymore since we got quiver.

[chrome lantern]

So you're just asking to cater to a restriction that you yourself imposed on your account

Which is a flawed premise

[true talon]

if you want to unlock fairy rings you should be able to

its very dumb that quest exp limits accounts for no reason tbh

[ionic tartan]

How is fairy ring central to being an account build?

[true talon]

pures cant gain access to fairy rings

because it needs nature spirit

[austere mulch]

If it’s not, then why is it important to have access?

[ionic tartan]

There are requirements like 40 def already. I haven't seen ds2 access but I have seen fairy rings asked

[austere mulch]

FWIW I don’t think pures having fairy ring access is a problem lol

[chrome lantern]

Why? There's nothing stopping you from getting the levels and doing the quest

[zenith pike]

Then there is an argument to whether or not the design principle is flawed, or basically if the outer scope of the argument is true

[austere mulch]

But at what point to you just decide to drop all expectations that come with the restriction?

Because you effectively just reduce the impact of the restriction itself

[zenith pike]

If the third reason is good or not, pure account or not, is a better question

[ionic tartan]

Why did ironmen get shield of arrav questline access? (https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Half_certificate).

Don't be purposely obtuse and act as if mory lockout is why people play 1 pray

[true talon]

defense exp from the quests stops you

[austere mulch]

And when you go far enough, what becomes of the point

[chrome lantern]

That doesn't stop you

It just gives you a level

[true talon]

if your a pure you dont want defense, so you cant do certain quests.

[chrome lantern]

Ok

[austere mulch]

Quest cape is your answer

[chrome lantern]

That's fine

That's called a restriction

[true talon]

they change MM1 to allow you to bypass getting the exp to do mm2 on a 1 def acc

[chrome lantern]

The point of a pure isn't to do quests

[austere mulch]

Irons are intended to be able to complete all content by Jagex

[true talon]

so they been changing restrictions

[austere mulch]

As such, they had to make a solution

[true talon]

they arent consistent is the issue

they change one quest but leave others

[austere mulch]

Agreed yeah

[chrome lantern]

Which is why they shouldn't have started the slippery slope of catering to restricted accounts to begin with lmao

[austere mulch]

But any give at all is better than none, so there’s that

[chrome lantern]

I disagree

[ionic tartan]

Why is quest central to ironman? Aren't they all about no trading and all the restrictions with it? Might as well have no restrictions.

/s

[true talon]

mainly because they unlock content which is useful to your account

[chrome lantern]

I would be fine with ironmen not being able to do SoA/Heroes tbh

[austere mulch]

#game-update message

[true talon]

better change would be to make SOA done solo, no idea why it still needs a duo. i recently made a pure and had to find one of my accounts to go do it as the other gang to finish.

absolutely stupid

[ionic tartan]

I'm pointing out he's being purposely obtuse. Acting as if mory lockout or fairy ring is important to account build restrictions

[sinful acorn]

It's as if Jagex wants you to meet and play with other people in their MMO. Crazy concept

[chrome lantern]

Nah the better solve is just letting you do it with people that already did it like Heroes' quest

[true talon]

99% of people who do that shit make another f2p account an do it themselves, get out of your delusions about meeting people in mmo lol.

[analog crow]

The big difference imo is that ironman is an officially supported gamemode, so it should have access to all content that isn't directly a part of the restriction.
Pures and skillers are unofficial gamemodes so you can't expect to be able to do everything with your restriction.

[zenith pike]

They did resurrections on January 6th

[sinful acorn]

95% of people make up their own statistics and state as facts.

I personally don't know anyone that has made an alt to do this. It's usually the SOA CC, or even just asking at grand exchange.

[true talon]

Literally people do dolo content or trolo

[ionic tartan]

They have their own highscores and predate ironman mode. Jagex just messed up their proposal and didn't bother fixing it after the hiscores.

[true talon]

There is an entire game mode about playing by yourself, this is not a real mmo lol.

[analog crow]

Having a high score table isn't the same as official support

[true talon]

only mmo part of it is massive online player base, but it isnt treated the same as other mmos that have holy trinities or require people.

[sinful acorn]

It's not about playing by yourself. Imagine thinking you're alone when you go to sacrifice bones to the wildy altar

[true talon]

moment we get AI player assisted accounts that you can group with, its over.

Rather go to TOB with AI bots than half of w416

[sinful acorn]

I don't think AI Players fit the role of Old School. You sure do have a lot of wrong opinions though. That's pretty boomer of you

[austere mulch]

Rather solo tob than pot 416

More efficient anyways

🤣

[analog crow]

@ionic tartan For what you want I think your best bet is to campaign for official account builds, which have been on the jmods' radar before.

[austere mulch]

Officially supported and officially recognized are not the same

Grey area though

[zenith pike]

This whole thread got poisoned

[analog crow]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/images/Cure_Other.gif

[zenith pike]

@chrome lantern do my point next

[restive storm]

+1 kinda cringe they have this stuff locked this day in age

[kind surge]

leave it to osrs players to think that ironmen being able to do a quest is fucked up

[tawny tide]

Mains are lame

What is this chat even fucking talking about

[zenith pike]

Short answer or long answer?

[tacit wharf]

restricted accounts wanting certain restrictions to be not restricting

[tawny tide]

"Most people enjoy this game mode please don't curate it to be more fun"

"You chose the game mode please don't make changes to it"

"Hey I only care about GP/hr but please care about me more than the game mode that cares about literally everything else"

[ember token]

https://five.sh/files/games/old-school-runescape/retro/FZDRfIY.gif

[zenith pike]

It’s the classic, easy arguing that’s been going on for years

[tacit wharf]

i mean at the end of the day, why have requirements for anything, people should be able to do whatever they want (honestly sounds like a plinxy thing to say)

[narrow folio]

What

[zenith pike]

I’d rather an argument about the idea of skill based restrictions without any account builds being considered

[narrow folio]

Why would I say this?

[zenith pike]

For or against I don’t care

[narrow folio]

Like why would you make that up

[zenith pike]

Because you’re an easy target

[narrow folio]

?

[zenith pike]

lol

[dawn jackal]

i donut understand this question

[tacit wharf]

maybe that is a different person than that has a similar name

[narrow folio]

I wouldn't say that and it defeats the purpose of the argument

[zenith pike]

Here one sec

[narrow folio]

You cant have progression without requirements

Also like it or not, you have to consider the more popular restricted accounts when doing content now

[zenith pike]

@dawn jackal #game-update message

Start from there, it’s a read though

[tawny tide]

Yeah lion isn't making sense

[dawn jackal]

is this specifically for quests?

[zenith pike]

Yeah

[dawn jackal]

the stat requirements on quests are a key part of the progression of this game

[tawny tide]

Eh shouldn't require skill

DT2 is pushing it already

[dawn jackal]

the flow of doing this to do this to unlock this to get this done to do this to get here to do this to pick flax more efficiently

[narrow folio]

Skill as in levels or

[dawn jackal]

stat requirements on content also act as a balancing point for content

rune dragons for example have an outlandish reward to difficulty ratio but its pretty fine because they are ds2 locked

[narrow folio]

Theyre also kind of gear locked

[tacit wharf]

justy/dfs/fang basically all u need

[narrow folio]

Which is a gear lock

[tacit wharf]

why do you think all the v.... gold farmers love it

[dawn jackal]

not that interested in getting lost in the rune dragon weeds moreso illustrating my point about how quest requirements act as a balancing tool the developers can use

[narrow folio]

Its also a matter of its valuable because its locked rather than its locked because its valuable

[dawn jackal]

being able to just do any quest without requirements is just not an option in the current state of the game with how the progression on accounts is handled

[narrow folio]

Whats even the complaint here? Gatekeeping more things from limited accounts?

[dawn jackal]

they'd have to drastically change how you progress through the game

[narrow folio]

Whats going on here is "requirements exist for progression" which is...just a fact of how the game works

[zenith pike]

You’re right here, since a big part of dt2 are skill requirements to stop you from getting to these too early and floor the point of rune dragons in the first place.

What I’m trying to find is an argument if certain minimum requirements with the sole purpose of preparing players for the encounters is necessary

[narrow folio]

Like a combat requirement to start a quest?

[zenith pike]

That’s a good example to start with

You get 3 points

[narrow folio]

I dont know what point you're trying to make

I like how it currently is with recommended levels but not a hard requirement. If players cant do it, go train or get better gear and come back later.

[zenith pike]

Just a joke on the point thing, the point I’m trying to make is that whether or not it’s a good idea to make skill quest requirements based on a desired minimum for players to do the content presented

Or if it’s necessary

[dawn jackal]

feel like this was already inputted on

[narrow folio]

Theres always been a gap between being able to farm the content thats rewarded from the quest and the minimum to clear the quest in the first place

There's no real issue with that

[zenith pike]

On time gating and account type gating, not perceived need for the stats since it’s all on jagex to decide

[dawn jackal]

it is to the games benefit to give players things to work on

[chrome lantern]

Having requirements/rewards on quests is how you do it without any account builds being considered. Anything else is catering to limited builds.

[dawn jackal]

SOTE is an achievement not just because its a 4-5 hour quest for most people but because it represents a milestone in account progression

not all content in this game exists to hold merit on its own as content

a lot of the content in this game exists to provide friction for the player to acheive against

removing the "time gating" on the content (as currently designed) removes a lot of the reason for people to interact with the games systems

as far as restricted accounts, i just don't care about any self restricted accounts and what they can or can't do

[zenith pike]

That’s exactly why I said the time gating aspect of why jagex adds skill requirements are perfectly fine, similarly with how they gate other account types since certain quests award items or systems not meant for them to have. The only other reason has been argued as it justifies itself by existing, which I argue goes against the point of osrs as an mmo less rigid in its design philosophy

[dawn jackal]

the iron man experience should be cohesive and i think for the most part it is

i think jagex has created a great set of systems that allow for players to interact with the game in unique ways and further support for stat or area restricted accounts doesn't benefit anyone

[zenith pike]

that’s fine, I just think there’s there’s an opportunity for players to argue on the idea that requirement for the sake of prepping the player for an encounter if they can justify themselves

[dawn jackal]

what is an example of this currently in the game

[zenith pike]

That being said, catering does tend to produce mediocrity. Look at ironmen

[chrome lantern]

I play primarily ironman and there's way too much ironman catering

[dawn jackal]

curious what is iron man catering you dislike

[zenith pike]

Mainly dream mentor comes to mind

[tacit wharf]

what about dream mentor?

[dawn jackal]

yea i guess i don't care if the 85 combat requirement is in the game or not. Thematically in the quest it makes a little sense as how could you assist whats his face and convince him hes a warrior if you yourself are not one

[zenith pike]

85 combat req

[tacit wharf]

ahh

[dawn jackal]

it would be offputting for some level 25 to come in and learn this character how to be a warrior

but again i don't really care

[zenith pike]

I don’t like putting thematics to gameplay tbh

[dawn jackal]

go read a book then

[chrome lantern]

Why is an 85 combat level requirement any different than a 70 smithing requirement?

[zenith pike]

I’m already mid Horus heresy, I can’t do no more

[dawn jackal]

sorry a bit of hyperbole but having rpg elements tied to the story is a pretty key pillar of what makes a game of game to me

[zenith pike]

I’m mainly talking about dumb stuff for the sake of thematics, like how a few times verzik should count as either a vampyre/aaraxyte despite it being a horrible idea to add slayer as a factor in tob

[narrow folio]

lore doesn't always have to make sense to gameplay elements

[hasty shard]

i think we should just have certain npcs immune to slayer helm and still let them apply to tasks

[narrow folio]

sotetseg is one example allegedly

[zenith pike]

Not a terrible idea, solves larpers

[narrow folio]

im pretty sure awakened bosses u get slayer xp but helm doesnt work

[zenith pike]

yes

[hasty shard]

like yama not counting for greater demons is cringe methinks

[tacit wharf]

is he a greater demon

[zenith pike]

No

[tacit wharf]

or is he more

[zenith pike]

He’s the greatest demon

[hasty shard]

greatest demon

[zenith pike]

I did it first

[tacit wharf]

so make sense it doesnt work

[hasty shard]

even if he somehow doesnt count the judge should

[narrow folio]

lorewise he's classified as a greater

[hasty shard]

zebak not being a croc

[narrow folio]

but you can do some mental gymnastics saying well he's too advanced and bypasses slayer tasks

[hasty shard]

well yeah that could literally just be part of his contract

WHICH is why it annoys me 😭

easiest place to say 'you cant take slayer helm'

[zenith pike]

I’ll walk on a mental sidewalk and say no slayer here

[dawn jackal]

i think sometimes this is just an admission by jagex that getting a specific slayer task is not a very fun thing

[zenith pike]

Yeah, slayer is a bad skill

[hasty shard]

imo its self inflicted if you want to grind out slayer tasks without getting the helm buff

so why not

[minor whale]

It's in his contract you're not allowed to use slayer helm boost

Bam lore

[narrow folio]

at least it should be easily identifiable and players shouldnt need to look it up on a wiki to figure that out]

[dawn jackal]

could be part of monster examine i suppose

[meager flame]

this is actually a good question

people say it a lot but im not sure if i can think of an example that's like

harmful to the experience

all of the actual ironman catering changes that i immediately jump to like for example

the sandstone grinder

are actually just positive additions

lol its almost political where people say a lot of things but im not sure if we stopped and pulled out a microscope we would actually find a real problem

for example someone might argue that ironmen should have to do everything totally alone since that was part of how it was initially advertised

but would the game actually be better for the people playing it if they couldn't do heroes

or toa with a friend

or nex with other people

i don't think anyone can honestly say that would improve anything

[small anvil]

Iron Man catering is most hated when it's affecting new stuff drop tables

Moons made bandos tank, demonbane into oath pathway feels very iron oriented

[meager flame]

i honestly dont even think thats for irons

i think thats just for the middle of the road player that wont put in the time

[small anvil]

For and game gear oath dropped very frequently esp with shards

[meager flame]

ya but the shards are even ge scape

[small anvil]

Wtf word was wrong in this message

[meager flame]

their biggest flaw is that they're tradable its kinda hard to pin that on the mode that cant trade lol

[small anvil]

Iron kinda started out as the extra hard new game+ mode and they are trying to make it approachable

To people who are casual

And I think that's the root flaw

[meager flame]

ya i just think people think its about making irons easier for casual players

but honestly

i think its just for the regular casual player that probably isn't an iron to begin with

[small anvil]

Like they wanted to make things completable in a "reasonable" amount of time for irons, which makes things go into the ground for prices in the general economy

[meager flame]

i also dont think thats for irons

[small anvil]

I think there's a lot of casual ish mid game irons

[meager flame]

i think the reasonable amount of time thing applies to everyone

and is probably mostly driven by the collection log more than anything

[small anvil]

A main doesn't need to get every drop

[meager flame]

oh but they do now

[small anvil]

Cuz they can buy the one they miss

Cloggers are like not the group jagex caters to

At all

[meager flame]

the things that really get irons to ask for help are the things jagex doesn't even really talk about

[small anvil]

They keep making big stupid rare things to keep them busy

[meager flame]

like for example

if we were catering drops for casual irons to make things approachable

we would've curb stomped cg years ago

[small anvil]

They created an entirely parallel path

To avoid going for it

[meager flame]

i mean not really

[small anvil]

It's entirely reasonable to go moons tds yama delve

[meager flame]

the only maybe acceptable alternative path involves killing one of the hardest bosses in the game

[small anvil]

Into raids

Most people will stall out around yama or so

But that's a long enough casual path without red prison

[meager flame]

yeah but red prison is easier

[small anvil]

And like boots being available from wave 4

IDK I see jagex as seeing the "everyday" iron as a key constituent

That they design for

[meager flame]

i think its good that there are more options but i dont think it replaces cg

realistically you'd just do both

if you really cared

[small anvil]

It's a bunch more incremental progress

Cg is the first great filter

For irons I feel

[meager flame]

yeah thats what i mean though

if we were really catering to people getting filtered we'd just nerf cg

[small anvil]

The alternate path with incremental progress will keep people chipping away

Cg is so soul sucking cuz you are just as far away

[meager flame]

giving them more stuff to do on top of cg is giving the game more fresh options to spend your time on but its not making it like

[small anvil]

As when you started

[meager flame]

more casual friendly

thats adding hours

not removing them

[small anvil]

Like I think they've done mostly good work in giving mid game options

But I can't help but think it's a key group they pay attention to

[meager flame]

but see what we're talking about now when we start really examining it

[small anvil]

The experience of

[meager flame]

its hard to say the game is worse

seems like it just got better

[small anvil]

The value of existing stuff has been gutted outside of megas kinda?

Oath ended up so cheap so fast

(bots didn't help things)

Doom drops too ended up really cheap

Like I know irons don't care about the prices of things but it is a thing

[meager flame]

idk if thats really in a problem state either tbf

like when you look at the price of the items we're talking about

[small anvil]

I think of iron as the "unreasonable" game mode. If you make it reasonable to complete the drops without dry protection then the drop is quite common for the same KC from a main

[meager flame]

each piece of oathplate is ~90-100m

the cheap doom drops start at 50m

[small anvil]

And a main will get more KC per hour played cuz of supplies and upkeep.

[meager flame]

thats actually a lot of gp for the people really worried about this stuff

[small anvil]

On top of not having gear limitations

[meager flame]

i just think the reasonable drop rate thing applies to everyone

[small anvil]

Feel like that's why we had more dupe protection

Moons, oath shards

For a bit

[meager flame]

but people think of it in ironman terms for some reason as like a talking point that doesn't make a ton of sense upon closer inspection

like

[small anvil]

A main doesn't need as much kc to get everything from the boss because of the market on average

[meager flame]

if you're playing runescape you want to be rewarded for your time spent doing a boss for a unique

it doesn't really matter if you're iron or main or clogger or a pure or whatever

[small anvil]

I just think there's an inherent trend towards oversupply and consistent downward pressure on prices due to relatively generous drop rates

Because of a focus on the iron experience over the market

[meager flame]

idk if that actually makes sense though

we're only just now starting to turn away from making drop rates more insane every time something new comes out

and we're still miles away from how generous everything was where we started

like for example

jagex talks about "gwd style" drop tables all the time

actually look at a gwd boss and tell me the last time that anything was half that easy

[small anvil]

That is more about basic loot vs uniques I believe

Could be wrong

[meager flame]

yeah they genuinely make the basic loot worse than gwd

[small anvil]

It's gwd vs vork right

[meager flame]

and the unique drops 4x more rare than gwd

[small anvil]

Sorta thing

What's 4x rarer

[meager flame]

its basically code for not giving people anything at this point its funny

[small anvil]

Last things I remember people saying are too rare are like pnm and nex

[meager flame]

they used that example a lot with the nightmare

its probably the one that got them to start turning the ship around

[small anvil]

Yeah I think they backed off from that

But like look at the value of pnm drops since the changes lol

[meager flame]

look at the usefulness of the pnm drops tbf

[small anvil]

True

[meager flame]

they should be dirt cheap

[small anvil]

They did keep value for a long time

Maybe it was harm cope

But like Eldritch is really nice

[meager flame]

it was mostly the part where there just wasn't a good reason to go do the content

so the supply vs demand was in a place that kept them floating

like an item can cost 800m but if it takes you 23423423423424 hours to get it

nobody is doing that

ely is the same way

[small anvil]

Ya I don't think people want cerb drop table

But release yama was a joke

[meager flame]

cerberus is kind of almost okay

[small anvil]

Cerb is mostly rough cuz of ppots

For irons

[meager flame]

they actually tried to hit that one with gwd drops

like thats a real honest attempt at it i think

and its from so far back that they maybe didnt even do that on purpose lol

[small anvil]

I think people also complain about end game gear coming from easy encounters

[meager flame]

cerb dies fast cerb regular drops are probably somewhat worse than a gwd boss

and the uniques are probably a little more unlikely but its not that different

[small anvil]

Gwd has been farmed into the ground now

Hasta being 1m is silly

[meager flame]

ya but thats just how it goes

its old content

[small anvil]

Ya that's just a ton of gear over them being made

Pet hunters definitely do affect the economy of goods too

[meager flame]

moons specifically the guy did a great job with his instructions when they asked him to make new barrows

because that's exactly what it is

[small anvil]

I enjoyed moons

[meager flame]

like

gameplay aside his drop tables and how often you get something etc

its very similar

[small anvil]

Like I'm not saying the design direction is necessarily bad

[narrow folio]

Destroy options on bosses:

The pet contract

[meager flame]

its actually kind of insane that he nailed it to the degree he did

[small anvil]

But I do think it is readily apparent that mid game irons are a key constituent they focus on

[narrow folio]

high pet rate on doom

[meager flame]

because he actually sat there and said

[small anvil]

And I can see those influences in a ton of the choices they make

[meager flame]

lets actually give them a similar experience and meant it lol in a game that just spent a decade basically trying to extend drop tables and increase hours to complete anything

to see how long players would stay at content

bro went 100% in the opposite direction

[small anvil]

It would be interesting to see how prices would be if we didn't have massive bot farms running prices into the ground

[meager flame]

also i kinda hate pets im ngl

[small anvil]

Moons was heavily botted

I enjoy pet hunting as a way to guide what content I do

[meager flame]

i think they're cool as the like

[small anvil]

I'm not hard core

[meager flame]

really rare cosmetic thing that just happens

[small anvil]

But it's nice to have goals that aren't just make gp

[meager flame]

but jagex keeps trying to solve that with destroy options or making pets common

and its like

[narrow folio]

the pet target farming additions have been a bit strange

[meager flame]

what is even the point

[narrow folio]

cloggers and irons are definitely influencing the game

[small anvil]

Pet hunters definitely can distort the drops coming into the game

Cloggers are an afterthought

[meager flame]

ya its just unfortunate because the cosmetic addition that doesn't do anything but look cool

[narrow folio]

i dont think "catering to midgame irons" is necessarily bad

[meager flame]

is the one time you're allowed to just really make something rare

[narrow folio]

smooths out progression for mains too

[meager flame]

because it doesn't hurt anything if you can't reasonably get it

[small anvil]

Cloggers are like why they add things like the salvage rares and paints

[narrow folio]

but the new blowpipes are a wtf moment as they're bad for all accs

[small anvil]

To pad out time to complete

[narrow folio]

same with dragon sheets and nails

they dont add anything interesting

its just time to complete

[hasty shard]

if they add elven shipwrecks i unironically hope they have a fairly rare armor seed drop

[meager flame]

like my i appreciate my cox pet and dust because its kind of idk

[small anvil]

Sheets and nails was definitely market oriented I feel

[meager flame]

randomly rare and a little cool

my doom pet though who gives a shit about that thing lol

[hasty shard]

cg is kinda shitty with how you cant just bail if you spoon enh

[small anvil]

Also like other things in the future will drop them too

[hasty shard]

you still gotta grind out 6 seeds so most peoples rng is going to balance out (or not)

[narrow folio]

feels bad atm until those new methods come out

[small anvil]

Meh max boat isn't used for anything

[meager flame]

i honestly think the sailing stuff just got the "lets make this awful and work it out later" approach

[small anvil]

So it's just completion or people needing to be on the cutting edge being kept busy

[narrow folio]

significant for trials and marlin fishing but they're mostly whatever otherwise

[hasty shard]

rosewood skiff for trials is the only one i'd say is objectively useful

[meager flame]

because they're absolutely terrified of being wrong

oh no someone might say abuse early abuse often to me

i swear they live in fear of that now lol

[small anvil]

Sailing was laying the foundation with a side of keep the late game people busy

[hasty shard]

i think a rosewood skiff is what 14 or so frost dragon tasks, 1100 kc

[small anvil]

Genuinely they just add time to things or rare serious to keep people playing

[meager flame]

dragon sheets are wild though

[small anvil]

The one's that are addicted

They don't put much thought into it

[meager flame]

my rng basically went super saiyan on them and it didn't even matter

i got 9 sheets from 1 wyrm task

[hasty shard]

this is assuming you just turn every sheet into nails

[meager flame]

but i need so many sheets it doesn't matter

[narrow folio]

sailing didnt release with enough content so the random clog rng stuff is there

[small anvil]

They just say oh yeah we need to keep the no lifers busy

[hasty shard]

100%

[small anvil]

Their goal is to keep people subscribed

They do that by giving progression paths to people who play moderately

[meager flame]

i think its interesting because i would argue that for the person stuck there with only sailing ship stuff to chase

it doesn't keep them subbed

[small anvil]

And by throwing more clogs and chase for the late game players

[meager flame]

i bet they're more likely to unsub just dealing with stuff like that over and over

than they would be with completable goals and a couple week break until the next new little thing

thats kind of me having a problem with jagex changing strategy entirely though

[small anvil]

I mean the salvage rares aren't hard to complete

[meager flame]

they're going super traditional mmo in the last few years with big big releases and a lot of down time

instead of small releases every other week

[small anvil]

No individual clog is like as bad as evil chicken or full moon helm

The worst is anglers paint maybe at like 10 hours average? At a guess

Maybe the rare fish

[meager flame]

aren't the cannon barrels worse than that

idr how many hours those are each its not too crazy but its also more than 10 iirc

[narrow folio]

cannon barrels were such a bad design

[small anvil]

Salvage is so easy to afk and it was part of XP to 99 so I don't think it's that crazy

Matters more to a iron than a clogger too

[narrow folio]

i hope they add more paths to get it

guarantee its going to be relevant

[meager flame]

tbh i think its just an example of what to never do again lol

like

[small anvil]

I get the feeling by the time it matters there will be way faster methods

[meager flame]

i genuinely think they wanted skilling to matter for combat and then made a bad play trying to make it happen

[small anvil]

We'll see what they do with sailing combat soon

[meager flame]

because like getting skilling tools from combat is a cool idea that they should lean into more

but idk if the actual weapons and stuff you use should come straight from skilling

you'd think it would've been like

the ammo instead

but its the barrel lol

[narrow folio]

and theres fomo and uncertainty about what ship to use these on

there should be a dismantle option to return it

return partial dragon nails too

though who knows, dragon nails might be much more abudant as a drop from a new boss

[meager flame]

ya dragon nails right now

are brutal

like actually nonsense

if they plan on more boats

[lean topaz]

Osrs update today?

ah yes, xmas event will be removed today 👌

[brave hearth]

mains, better grab your free 200k

[left wolf]

Surely not just that though

[winged mantle]

nooo my pet hats 🙁

[main kestrel]

can i reorder the boat facility buttons with a plugin its kind of annoying having to scroll down and up to adjust the nets/sails

[main kestrel]

thankyouuu

[winged mantle]

np

[chrome lantern]

Pretty much all of varlamore other than echo boots and tonalztics drop rate is ironman catering. Dupe protection at moons is something that I would consider a bad thing. Scar essence mine is also something I would consider to be bad. Singles wildy boss variants are a mix of ironman and clogger catering. Generally the worst of the ironman catering updates aren’t explicitly bad directly but have aspects, functions, or reasons that make them fundamentally bad, like scar ess seems good on the surface but ultimately its only function is to make it so ironmen don’t have to shop hop so it’s bad because if the real issue were that buying runes is bad then scar is still a horrible solution.

Dupe protection at moons I mentioned. That one is partially a symptom of larger problems:
-The armor is too powerful to begin with due to being designed to cater to earlygame ironmen as way too powerful for where it comes from
-The content was designed poorly, so they felt a need to put the system in because of how long completion would take otherwise combined with the market effect of dupes from how excessively strong the sets are compared to their source

Both are largely stemming from the starting premise of making an earlygame set that is just way stronger than it has any right being for the content it comes from, and then just bad drop rate/table design

[meager flame]

i kinda think that there are a lot of things you mentioned that i think could be better

but also believe the game is better than it was before they existed

scar essence for example i think is kind of a crappy solution but it is better than what came before

[chrome lantern]

Scar ess is one of the most egregious ones

You look at it and say, “Would any other type of account ever spend 400 gp to make 100k+ chaos or blood runes at once?”

If the answer is no, that is catering

[meager flame]

oh no its explicitly catering but at the same time

it made the game better its not inherently bad to have catered updates

[chrome lantern]

I disagree when we talk about restricted accounts

[meager flame]

i think they could've done a way better job though

[chrome lantern]

Why play with a restriction at all if you’re just asking to make it easier

[weary stag]

I agree with your points but I, a filthy main, have used scar ess for aether runes for big profits

[chrome lantern]

Yeah but that’s more of an exception and didn’t exist when it came out

[weary stag]

I think it also highlights the issue with the system tho, or atleast it futhers your point

[meager flame]

yeah but just because you have restrictions doesn't mean that the game cant be improved by changing them fundamentally

[worthy hazel]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/qol-tweaks--fixes?oldschool=1

[weary stag]

If I don't see "can now use flippers in coral area" I'ma go fally

[worthy hazel]

The word flippers is not in the newspost 🙁

[chrome lantern]

We're aiming for this work to begin within this month or next, so keep an eye out for more on Ship Combat!

Lmao crazy

[weary stag]

They killed the ahrims skirt/cursed banana graphical glitch

To Falador!

Wait who is muffin Etube you're a purple token hunter right?

[hasty shard]

1984

[dreamy vapor]

The end of an Era...

[fervent igloo]

do we know the downtime for the update, if any?

[meager flame]

oh yeah

happy go stand next to the cannonball stall day guys

lets get that 30 seconds of the npc working

[rough frigate]

chunkers rushing to puro puro with their mains filled with lucky implings

[meager flame]

if only there were some kind of already used and implemented fix for this issue

[ivory cargo]

lmfao im actually at puro rn lol

[hasty shard]

didnt they fix that at puro?

[meager flame]

i think they did do something

idr what exactly though

[ivory cargo]

fix what

[chrome lantern]

I think the guy just doesn’t want to have to compete with bots

[ivory cargo]

oh lol

im not even an iron i just do it to try to get elite clues and its relaxing for me

[meager flame]

seph was talking about the mains smuggling lucky imps to irons

[ivory cargo]

ohhh

ive caught a silly amount of c imps

mostly for the elite clues so i dont have to buy dragons

[meager flame]

it was incredibly crazy tech tbh

[ivory cargo]

i think i saw a video about the lucky imps

hard to even find them anyway

[marsh sand]

The link below the new blog post links to https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1gb3fy5/project_zanaris_october_update/

[hasty shard]

ive not seen it in patchnotes so ive no clue if its fixed but chunk/restricted accs can currently train rc via farming in poh

[meager flame]

lmao wait they didnt fix that

[hasty shard]

idk! and id rather not bond up a whole account to test lmao

[umbral coral]

hi guys can we delay the update for a few hrs im slayin rn

[hasty shard]

i was mid inferno

[umbral coral]

u can do it after i log in a bit

[chrome lantern]

How so

[meager flame]

wasnt it like

[hasty shard]

ok so the poh rewrite iirc shuffled around some of the skill reqs for furniture

[meager flame]

when they added sailing to the game it got the exp you would've probably gotten for something random like the rune case or whatever

so something random was giving rc exp

i swear they fixed that though

[hasty shard]

i am just not in the know i'd need to spam ping lily or something

doesnt invite me to niche servers

[meager flame]

i have no idea what exactly it was now though

i just vaguely remember reading about it

[hasty shard]

the xp given was correct

[meager flame]

was it xyz thing requires farming to create now but skill guide says rc

[hasty shard]

but if you needed other skills to build something it was shuffled by like two spaces i think

[meager flame]

or something

[hasty shard]

rune cases used farming

i cant remember the other situations

[meager flame]

you ever fully spec down corp and then almost get obliterated 2 ticks after you tab out

because he somehow starts maxing every attack 😭

[hasty shard]

yes

thats the fun part of corp

when it suddenly turns into stay alive simulator

[fresh forge]

We get less Defense content because of pures 😔

[merry verge]

What do you mean?

[meager flame]

excellent work everyone iron bill has no idea what hit him

until next week

[frozen lion]

??? im sure it was reported the stash was missing

i dont see anything in change logs about fixing stash there

[unborn spindle]

it still is missing

[frozen lion]

and they added it to stash chart in poh

OMEGALUL

so we have listed non-existent stash, nice

[languid tundra]

Please can we get a QOL update to gravestones so that when you claim your stuff back it doesn’t just continuously decide to create rubix cubes for you to solve every time I get dunked on (please put our stuff back to where it was before we died)

[brave hearth]

Another week without the mobile account switching update

[silk talon]

this fishing spot doesnt stay in the same spot anymore??

[frozen lion]

since sailing i think, made karambwans shit

[silk talon]

yesterday was fine

[ancient ember]

Heyo! I've just asked this to the team, and all three are listed on the notice board right now, but Brittle Isle is planned to be added to the game next week 🙏

[formal arrow]

i can no longer trim my own sails since i +5 spicy stewed to build them 😭

[frozen lion]

ty for clarification!

[bronze kernel]

Give it another few minutes. The spots not moving is actually a bug that they decided to keep as a feature that breaks shortly after a restart before fixing itself

[ancient ember]

I've raised this with the team thank you for flagging 🙏 they are looking into it

[formal arrow]

thank you! really appreciate your quick responses here 🙂

[solid trout]

Prifdinnas Salmon spots are also moving suddenly

[fresh forge]

I’m trying to work out what the original fix was for - a quest? Being on someone else’s boat?

[formal arrow]

people were boosting early sailing lvls by getting on a friend's boat and trimming their high lvl sails

[ancient ember]

I've just raised this with the team as well!

[fresh forge]

Ah…

Maybe just make trimming xp a multiple of your Sailing lvl

[silk talon]

And the karambwans?

[hasty shard]

this isnt out of the ordinary

the spots dont move as they're next to quest cutscenes iirc

so over time after updates they'll naturally lock in place

[mild saddle]

Why’re we buffing burning claws? They’re already too good. It makes sense the burn doesn’t work on Olm hand

[formal arrow]

yeah or require 5 sailing levels less than what's required to build them. either way works i think 👍

[elfin glade]

Jagex, you forgot to delete the builds that aren't on rotation in Emir's Arena in the newspost. The newspost says "The PvP Arena is using 'Max/Med / Zerker / 1 Def Pure' loadouts", it's currently Max/Med.

[bronze kernel]

I honestly don't get why we can boost to build something, but then can't use it unless you have the required level. So you need to be chugging on boosts.

[pearl tangle]

I think there’s still a bug where one of the Karamja diaries gives exp for sailing at 1

[woven cosmos]

Please look into adding more space to the Seed Vault as it should in theory be a simple fix. I am currently forced to put some of my seeds in the bank due to lack of space, it's not game breaking, but takes up precious bank space (for an ironman anyway) and is a bit of an inconvenience.

Bug:
The Seed vault is currently only able to store 96 item stacks. As there are 104 storable items it is not possible to store every item in the seed vault at once.

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Seed_vault

Sailing introduced a bunch of new seeds and saplings, so they don't fit anymore 😭

[hasty shard]

why does the seed vault have grand seed pods inside it

[winged mantle]

seed pod

😅

[thick beacon]

tbh I dont know if many ppl will even swap to using it regardless if its good or not

dwh is just seen as kinda the thing for olm

[restive storm]

we're just not gonna get any updates til the summit are we

[minor whale]

Burning claws working on Olm hand isn't gonna break any metas, just makes it work as expected

[thick beacon]

I disagree on that they were very good on olm even before this change

just most ppl wont preach it/get into it I think

but im guessing like most ppl didint even know using bclaws was good for olm even with dwh

[minor whale]

It might change teams meta but solo scy you reallllly want def reduction on hand

It'll be another thing you bring

But won't be like make/break meta shift

[meager flame]

i remember one time vaguely looking into what d claws in oathplate looked like compared to hitting a maul

and its actually not as different as you might think

[thick beacon]

ye^

[thick beacon]

i think its more the oppsite personally use defence reduction teams and bclaws in solo regs

[finite tapir]

Soulreaper Axe special attack and Moth Mixes will no longer heal the player if they are at 0 HP.
can still cox brew at 0

[gilded sparrow]

Let’s not forget that level 3 Delve, which has minimal requirements, only a few quests, drops a mage wand that competes with a mega rare and completely outclasses every magic weapon, except tumekens.

[finite tapir]

still surprised they made delve uniques attainable so early

shouldve been like 6 8 10 or something

[restive storm]

ironmeme appeasement has gone too far

[meager flame]

i still think 1 to 7 should've been no uniques but you graduate from even being asked to do them

[finite tapir]

idk about skipping 1-7

maybe like 1-4

[meager flame]

i mean 1 to 7 is literally just time sink content

[finite tapir]

some people still struggle with 5-6 more than 8

[finite tapir]

i feel like most people i see complain about "bad drop rates" nowadays are mains amusingly

mains complaining about low gp/hr and so on

[restive storm]

agree the cloggers are as bad as the irons

all gross creatures

[brave hearth]

why so much hate in your heart?

[restive storm]

they ruined the game i love 🙁

[gilded sparrow]

It would have been fine, if every drop wasnt BiS.. Adding 2 BiS items to the same droptable as avernic boots is weird for someone who «struggles with meaningful rewards»

[meager flame]

nah it makes sense

[finite tapir]

day 765 of asking to remove/nerf mixology

[meager flame]

we spent all last year flaming them for not adding good rewards

so we got yama and delve rewards

[hasty shard]

they will simply nerf xp/h and increase xp per herb

[finite tapir]

that's fine if the xp/hr nerf is big enough

[hasty shard]

one guam for 99

[restive storm]

i dont even get how xp/herb is a problem even without mixology lol

[finite tapir]

one guam for 99 but you have to click the processor on every game tick without making any mistakes, for 37,500 game ticks

also on tick 6942 if you click you reset

and yes 37500 ticks is longer than you can stay logged in

cope

[finite tapir]

the problem is that both are too high

[restive storm]

this is fair

[finite tapir]

well, the second is a problem because of the first

if each guam was unironically like 1k xp but you could only use the equivalent of 5 guams/hr then sure that's fine

[hasty shard]

you can do herbi and fill up herb sack, then dump every herb into mixology

[finite tapir]

did you know 0 prep and only getting herbs from herbiboar, while also being too high level to get any mox herbs

is still like 0.35 ehp/hr

fucking absurd

[thick beacon]

feel like its pretty balanced for the effort atleast for irons uims though...

[finite tapir]

no it isn't

[hasty shard]

during leagues i was doing temple trekking to get herbs for mixology

thoughts

[finite tapir]

it's infinitely easier than the alternative best rate for a reg iron

[hasty shard]

almost quadrupling the xp value of herbs :^)

[thick beacon]

i disagree on that herbs are so passive and easy

id rather do some herb runs then deal with mixing 10m xp personally

[finite tapir]

sorry i misspoke

[restive storm]

herbs are like the most passive thing in the game lol

[finite tapir]

it's infinitely easier and better effective xp/hr than the alternative best rate

[minor whale]

Mixology is a mix of dummy useless for mains and dummy good for irons

[hasty shard]

pot storage saves me like maybe a few ticks decanting

[thick beacon]

idt its easier it requires alot of effort

[hasty shard]

insaneo

[finite tapir]

it is absolutely easier

[thick beacon]

if u have banked xp doing reg herb is still faster

[finite tapir]

the alternative best method is one of the most click intensive content in the entire game

i would argue it's harder to master than like 99% of pvm honestly

to get good rates anyway

[meager flame]

its the pay off for doing the worst content in the game

god i hate mixology

[thick beacon]

its not that much better right theres a table maybe 10-15% better xp then farming irits and doing super attacks

[brave hearth]

I love mixology because it made me 270m on release

[thick beacon]

for sweating ur butt off

[finite tapir]

?

[meager flame]

i finished it on release on my iron and the content itself and their repeated attempts at balancing it

made me consider never doing content at release again lmao

[finite tapir]

if mixology was objectively worse than the alternative best method i'd have less of a problem with it

[meager flame]

its kinda hard to do that though when the gameplay is already terrible

tbh if it werent for the rewards i doubt most people would even go there as is

even though its more exp/herb

[finite tapir]

nerfing the max in-activity rate from 107k/hr to 68.1k/hr would fix it

[thick beacon]

i cant find the table for tradtional herb training with goggles

[finite tapir]

for what

[thick beacon]

xp rates an hour

for diffrent seeds/herbs

[finite tapir]

is that in response to my point

[thick beacon]

yes

[finite tapir]

i'm not talking about ""traditional herblore""

i said alternative best method

[thick beacon]

whats the alt best method?

is it not tradtional herblore?

mixology>regular herblore only 2 options i thought

[finite tapir]

decant barblore

[thick beacon]

ye but barblore is mainly fishing xp the other stuff is a side bonus for the effort

[finite tapir]

it was also ehp for herblore

or rather, required for herb ehp

[thick beacon]

but practically idk hm it matters are ppl really getting 10m+ xp doing barblore for 99 if they are I think they deserve the reward

[finite tapir]

what reward?

being worse than mixology?

a minigame with 0 requirements

[thick beacon]

well mix requires effort no xp in other skills

[finite tapir]

i'm not going to repeat myself

[thick beacon]

most ppl cba doing mixology for rewards I cant imagine them doing it for xp

[hasty shard]

erm... you need children of the sun

[thick beacon]

idt herblore is really gatekept nearly as much as people percieve it to be its a pretty easy skill on a reg iron atleast

contracts already solved herb pre mix imo biggest brickwall is planting seeds and I think thats more relaxing then doing mix with less herbs. but its preference

u also get like legit millions of xp from pvm so doing tradtional herb I think is still very viable maybe post 99 its more of an issue but I dont see as big deal for just 99

[true talon]

hate i have to do it for alderium

goading pots and prayer enhance are nice, but having to get that 2ndary absolutely sucks

[thick beacon]

also the other thing about mix is u miss out on alot of potions u could make instead

but tbh idk mch about the expert packs but i think most ppl would save for ald anyway

like if u do 10m herbtodt ur gona legit have to do 10m post 99 xp to make ur brews restores etc anyway cuz u need potions

[thick beacon]

mb I see what u mean now u dont like barblore being thrown out for mixology

i still have same gripes with barblore as mix but I agree mix seems better in those regards

barb turns ur active potions into nearly useless ones and is high effort to

[finite tapir]

actually i'd put it at 57.9k xp/hr

[fresh forge]

Mixes are useless?

[finite tapir]

yes

i mean i'm sure you can find some niche use for it like tick eating for both hp and prayer or whatever but

when doing dc barb anyway you just munch the ones you make (provided you aren't near full inv) for cycles

[fresh forge]

Oh cause they are two doses only. Yeh that’s lame

I’ve never done the herby bit. I assumed mixes were better but just annoying to make

[thick beacon]

they have attack delay so cmb ones are infinitely worse

energy/stams u can prob still get use out of

but like these days u can convert those to extended/better versions so even that is nice to keep and also 4 dose still ideal typically

[dawn jackal]

if we nerf mixology we must also nerf drift net then the world might start to heal

[mild saddle]

Dclaws have been better on average kill time for a bit, hammer / maul is just nice for the variance. You can pop off if you hit all the hammers but claws are more consistent avg time

Bclaws were already pretty close to regular claws at Olm tbh, closing that gap is bad

[bronze kernel]

Thinking of how far burning claws have crashed

[mild saddle]

4m lol wtf

Yeah they need a nerf not a buff, easily farmable content like that is overrun with bots and irons just starting PvM

For that content, Bclaws are already way too good

[meager flame]

I mean it makes sense they’re free to get basically and drop from something with a way better drop

It’s honestly tragic that bclaws exists as is

Interesting idea but terrible placement

[forest herald]

What in the hell is with making it so we have to be the sailing level to use the facilities?! Now I cant use parts of my ships after spending millions of GP upgrading it…