game-update

[timber vale]

@ivory walrus

[craggy radish]

literally incentivising the afkness of salvaging

[vagrant solstice]

port tasks are so boring, be so for real right now

[proven sedge]

whatever J Mod wrote the rates for the Soup pet needs to go back to bed

[winged mantle]

port tasks are unreliable and don't feel good to go around each port looking for a specific task you want to do

[craggy radish]

if there was no reward but xp to salvaging, only the afkers would do it as much

[winged mantle]

i went to 7 ports and found 0 i wanted to do

[ivory walrus]

hi @timber vale

[pulsar oxide]

bounties are fine, deliveroo is some of the worst content i've ever endured in this game

[timid scarab]

Rip

[analog crow]

Just lost all my motivation to afk sailing while travelling
Only thing worth doing now is suffering through jubbly jive for another 12 hours ig
W update good job

[dire mango]

They outlined the different methods people are using to salvage so i think it's unfair to say they don't understand it.

[winter hearth]

I think more people are getting better at 'solving' them but agree there are some inconsistencies in some level ranges that make it rougher in spots

[craggy radish]

im an Uber driver irl and i find couriering in sailing less than fun

[vagrant solstice]

bounties are fine but combat is horrific whicyh they are still not addressing

[potent dagger]

L update to salvaging

[winged mantle]

my main gripe is there's so much friction it either pushes you to force through jubly or afk

[drifting ermine]

I don't understand it - everyone is happy with the skill and jagex wants to nerf it to make people mad - make it make sense.

[winged mantle]

the middle parts are not worth the pain points

[lapis parrot]

Are those ray barb drop rates correct on the blog post? No way are they 1/100 etc

[vagrant solstice]

Jagex yous dont have to do this, no update this week go back to the drawing board. please. im just not gunna touch sailing til yous fix it

[hot cairn]

all i’m saying is this should be looked at again and if you want to find “balance” let’s not go from 600 to 250 xp in a single update.

[craggy radish]

when i read the update post and it sounds like its convincing us of said player data, im highly sceptical

[fervent isle]

damage control before the update even releases haha this is comedy

[vagrant solstice]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-walter-hank-walter-screaming-walter-yelling-gif-26473309

[woven marlin]

makes me definetly not want to keep sailing a little bit haha, thats a shame :(

[hot cairn]

if you’re going to take away from salvaging that much then trials need to be buffed not nerfed

[thorn gate]

Terrible update

[analog crow]

Trials need a serious rework it feels like I'm fighting against my boat the whole time and it's really bad navigating the tight paths at jubbly

[winter hearth]

We want to make changes to make it healthy long-term, the rate of progression for the amount of actually interacting with what the skill is offering was at a pace faster than we'd anticipated. We never want to make changes to make people mad, part of the same reason that there are a bunch of salvaging QoL improvements in the mix as well

[timber vale]

yes there needs to be balance here - reducing xp to less than half is just going to really annoy people

[slender vapor]

Casual 58% nerf

[round lintel]

Sounds to me they are like bore to hell with couriers, waste gp on bounties, go spend 400-600 hrs salvaging or try hard your 99 at barracudas so dont have to touch the skill never again (like Agility)

[vagrant solstice]

I get the idea behind the nerf, but they didnt do anything to adjust, they just decided to give it to port

[drifting ermine]

But considering maxxing your account already takes 2000 hours +, don't you guys think there can just be some skills where you don't need to sink in hundreds of hours and where you can just chill for a bit?

[pulsar oxide]

what's being done to address the heavy nerf on gwenith glide then? the whole idea of that course is it's high intensity and focus with extractor usage. now it's taken a 10% cut because of salvaging

[dire mango]

Any word on the incredibly annoying bug that doesn't let you log out at sea without the boat and yourself ending up at a (sometimes different) port?

[vagrant solstice]

Could the nerfs not have come with these supposed salvaging QOL instead? Did yous not expect this to kill peoples drive to do the skill?

[oblique mesa]

Really happy that deliveries got a buff, it felt like I was trolling myself if I were to do them over afk salvaging. I want to sail around and actually do the skill.

[spice talon]

Clowns. L update.

[rough frigate]

in terms of port tasks i think addding some logic to the task board so it tries to give you tasks you can plan a good route around more often would be good

like if i'm trying to do focus planning a good route with the ports between the continents, don't throw a piscarrilius->sarim in there

[burnt rain]

the health of the skill should be through other areas and encounters in future updates, new raids, new ship combat etc, not the boring grind of leveling the skill itself

[vagrant solstice]

There is absolutely nothing positive about this blog post or update. This is the first update in the past 1 or 2 years where I am genuinely gobsmacked this was the direction jagex wanted to go

[quartz locust]

Are there any plans for any further changes from the feedback from the UIM community as a whole being looked at already outside of cargo tasks? Can we expect something like a poll or something down the line for it... It's... Being blunt, not great at all having a core feature of the skill locked down to the point of being unusable even now with the changes to the hold, we have no other skills that have core features locked out of them so why have we started with this

[winter hearth]

For sure, Salvaging's still going to be quick for the effort at the higher end (relative to other similarly AFK methods), and Sailing is still one of the faster skills in the game if you're not blasting in huge input costs

[pastel night]

@winter hearth there is a small bug that for the last salvage at merchants it tells ya that you do not have a high enough sailing level to sort it out even if you are well over 90. not sure if its actually a bug, if you wanna look into it?

[winged mantle]

frost dragon respawn @vagrant solstice

[winter hearth]

fixed this week

[pastel night]

oh sorry, thank you

[gleaming frigate]

Its in the patch notes

[proven sedge]

@winter hearth who has wrote the "rates blog" because half of it is mathmatically impossible"

[charred matrix]

Is there a reason why Salvors paint only comes from martial salvage??

[long salmon]

Kinda nice as an iron to know i can passively do frosts on task and not be trolling

[drifting ermine]

I doubt it'll be "fast" - a lot of skills you can afk for at least a minute at a time and get 200k+ exp per hour. Sailing will have less exp per hour than woodcutting with more input required. It's definitely not a fast skill if you consider it's AFK options

[winter hearth]

pulled in from dev tickets, what d'you mean?

[pastel night]

missed it

[proven sedge]

200m for sailing pet

[craggy radish]

how about you remove the double salvage spots and leave the xp alone. its not that afk when u actually have to move the boat

[burnt rain]

they really dropped the ball with this. sailing was going over mostly well.

[charred matrix]

Albatross feather can't be 1/200

[proven sedge]

its all wrong

[craggy radish]

1/30 apparently

[lapis parrot]

Ray barbs also wrong

[proven sedge]

1/9000 for gwenith course for soup pet is 200m sailing exp @winter hearth

[elfin idol]

i just don’t see where the “redistribution” went to

[final lark]

Absolute yikes

[winter hearth]

Given the data we've got on play patterns, it's clear people like how AFK it is - which is fine by us, just that we're not fine with it being so AFK and so (relatively) strong

[lapis parrot]

Unless I got all 16 in 189kc with a 1/100 drop rate

[woven marlin]

the increased amount of double spots will be nice i reckon

[craggy radish]

cmon bro

[woven marlin]

for some of the higher salvage

[primal cobalt]

Hmmm. Do I care that I need to salv an extra 60 hours to 99 is the question? I'm genuinely upset about the nerf but trying to put my feelings aside I guess playing the game isn't a big deal

[round lintel]

Is not AFK thats what you dont understand! Low effort vs AFK they are different

Gemstone crab is AFK

[craggy radish]

the reason they like how afk it is, is coz they dont like the skill and they deal with it that way. thats not who you should be listening to

[pulsar oxide]

afk is not interacting with the client every 60 seconds

[dire mango]

Any word on the bug that forces you off the boat when you log out @winter hearth 🙏? Didn't see antyhing in the blog.

[tiny epoch]

was hoping for a bit more carrot with the stick, but yeah seems like jagex feel the skill is too fast overall & needs an overall nerf

[woven marlin]

if anything they are making it more afk with the increased double salvage spots at higher tiers

just slower xp

[winter hearth]

I more mean, I think if we'd removed double salvaging spots and made more people move around between shipwrecks we'd probably be in a similar position with people being unhappy

[tiny epoch]

dont really agree with that but that seems like the clear message !

[pulsar oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/shad-shadiversity-get-stick-get-stick-gif-21571330

no carrot only stick

[burnt rain]

guys probably should have tested that yourselves before allowing THOUSANDS OF PLAYERS TO GET 99 WITH CURRENT XP RATES

[winter hearth]

The bug around y ou logging in to the port that you last docked at if you logged with your boat having last been at a mooring point is fixed

[primal cobalt]

@winter hearth respect you in here with the firestorm. You make fair points.

[woven marlin]

i wonder what the box change means

[winter hearth]

For sure, but equally if we think balance hasn't landed where we expected - are we supposed to just leave it forever? Same with stuff like the blowpipe

[craggy radish]

Players should no longer find themselves logging in at the last port that they visited if they logged out with their boat docked at an island's mooring point.

[woven marlin]

maybe i wont miss the last box on gwenith course so often

[surreal meadow]

All of this is so wrongly timed jagex. You had 3 years of testing and development. Did you leave it all to the interns again?

[timid scarab]

Bounty Port Tasks are a way to train Sailing via combat but are intentionally not trying to be a competitive XP provider as we'd like to keep Sailing focused around non-combat training instead of making it a combat skill.
I feel like this is a huge disconnect with how the community generally plays. The end-game combat has some of the highest player draw, repeatability and largest optimization space within the game. Endless sandbox.

[primal cobalt]

Let's not be antagonistic y'all be productive

[winter hearth]

Agree! Think we just need combat in a better spot before we start trying to make super cool stuff around it, since Sailing's combat is still very 'click and wait' for the time being

[potent dagger]

dragon cannon barrel tanking as we speak

dragon cannon should have a spec since it is a dragon weapon of sorts

[carmine junco]

@winter hearth can you confirm if the ray barb drop rates in the blog are accurate? It shows as 1/100 from mantas, but I got 16 of them in only 160 or so kills.

[round lintel]

Thats the thing tho some of the shipwrecks dont have double spots, sometimes it takes full 4 mins to get a spot in Frem shipwrecks for example and it happens every 12 mins so your xp rates are not what you claim to be. the drop rates of uniques are atrocious and now you are killing the xp too nah

[rain drift]

I’d argue removing double salvaging makes more sense

[winter hearth]

Rates should be accurate but if something feels super amiss then could be an issue and I'll make notes

[final lark]

Such a shame to kill off salvaging this early

[potent dagger]

Thanks for the responses tho @ goblin

[carmine junco]

I mean, I could be wildly lucky but the most likely answer is that I rolled average luck.

[round lintel]

Imagine it was taking people millions of XP to get a dragon cannon and now is worst than before lmao

[proven sedge]

@winter hearth can you ask someone to revist the rates blog for the Soup pet as it HAS to be wrong, the rates are like 10x what they should be

[dire mango]

it's not dead, people will still do it. People train mining at stars for way less xp/hr than post-nerf sailing

[toxic fractal]

The newspost of today's update doesn't include drop rates for Dragon metal sheel / Large dragon metal keel parts for Vampyre Krakens @winged ledge 😮

[primal cobalt]

I think keeping salv as afk as it is but reducing rates is okay. Salving is dope I don't mind doing it.

[rough frigate]

@winter hearth if we eliminate factors like risk and tick manipulations, what do you suppose the best base ratio of xp/h is between a given active method and afk method would be?

we've been having this same discussion over in the rs3 discord because there is a tendency to lean into afk methods to an unhealthy degree and its almost always because the active methods don't feel worthwhile in comparison, but the issue typically arises from the afk methods being too strong

[primal cobalt]

Just don't make it less rewarding in any other way pls xD

[lapis parrot]

I also had a similar experience, feels morel like a 1/10-1/15 from manta rays

is there an extra 0 on them on the blog?

[rough frigate]

i think the upper bound we settled on was 10:1 (eg, if an afk method is 60k xp/h, the active method should be 600k xp/h) and everybody generally agreed that's definitely a big enough ratio, the question is how low the ratio can go before that's no longer the case

[pulsar oxide]

that works in rs3, not so much osrs

[rough frigate]

rates are definitely more tightly tuned in osrs, but i think the principles still apply

[vagrant solstice]

600k xp/hr?? i want 99 sailing on my first salvage wtf

[round lintel]

They are doing the complete opposite of what they wanted to accomplish as Charting sends you all over, now is either "Couriers" or "Barracudas" both which will burn the player over and it becomes a Ima get 99 and not touching the skill again

[timid scarab]

Does the data actually show a lot of people engaging in ship combat for xp? If not, why not simply buff the xp for now to make it more viable and then after a potential complete rework you can lower the xp again?

[round lintel]

Really sad and boring update tbh

[restive siren]

osrs players when they have to play the game: 👶

[vernal maple]

Why does it say ray barbs 1/100 from manta rays, thats WAY off their actual drop rate

[dire mango]

How is that different from the current meta? You salvage/trials to 99 depending on your preference, then you don't touch it again.

[quartz locust]

Feel like I'm shouting into the void but might as well

UIM ship combat is just old wildy boss content right now, safespotting everything because it's basically impossible otherwise because we can't feasibly heal through any encounters, should we expect another change for repair kits to not end up counting towards cargo space next @winter hearth or are we realistically not going to see anymore uim changes until early next year now after this week's update? Appreciate it :)

[winter hearth]

No, but ship combat's never been designed as an 'XP first' method, perhaps if we get it into a more enjoyable spot and people really like it then we could re-evaluate (especially with more interesting combat encounter that involve movement while fighting etc.), we'd rather improve the feel considerably first before making it competitive for XP reasons on top of chasing uniques/resources

[vagrant solstice]

i do find it crazy that UIM were absolutely never considered for this skill in the 3 years of dev time

[restive siren]

why are you saying that, wiki has the same rate based off 500k sample size

[vagrant solstice]

but again, yall chose to be UIM, sit

[primal cobalt]

I don't think this is the case, as an Ironman I can see three specific functions for the last 3 salvs.

[vernal maple]

it has rates 1/16 not 1/100

[woven marlin]

i dont mind the changes as long as you give me a gryphons task please i hate you tureal

[winged mantle]

i guess we'll see if the "tracked xp" changes when people stop training the skill from tonight

[red acorn]

I'm waiting for the UIM concerns to be addressed before I jump into sailing - hope I haven't missed the boat too much with the exp changes. Though if the top end of afk is 90k/hr it still sounds good to me

[vernal maple]

I have been farming a lot ray barbs and I can certainly say it is no way 1/100 from manta rays

[round lintel]

My guy, currently is a money sink the normal weapons nerf and the cannons not hitting anything and the mobs thrashing your boat... idk what you mean?

[burnt rain]

exactly this. funny way of trying to save the skill

[glossy briar]

is the droprate for barracuda trials per "lost supplies" picked up or actual completion? 1/9k at glide seems like 180-200m xp kinda range

[restive siren]

and why do you think its 1/16? are you sure you are thinking of the correct item?

[rain drift]

@winter hearth it’s showing an xp rate decrease of 20-30% but that surely doesn’t take into account the nerf of the crystal extractor too as that’s like 50% of the xp/h at lower lvls so it’s like a direct 40-50% nerf

[rough frigate]

i always find it so interesting that osrs players pog out over 6 digit xp rates meanwhile rs3 players perform all kinds of stupidity to get 5mil construction xp/h lol

and that doesn't necessarily make the game easy because its alot of effort, but if you equate grindy to difficult as most runescapers do then it could be seen as easy

[craggy radish]

shame i drive for a living, cant afk mobile in the car or id be 99

[winter hearth]

Exactly, we need to make it way better before trying to make it more appealing - if we make it more appealing but it's still in this state, nobody wins

[craggy radish]

nerfed for being a productive member of society

[charred matrix]

wiki was changed 7 minutes ago, it used to be 1/16 which i think is correct rate too

[vernal maple]

Yes I am talking about Ray barbs, the item needed to upgrade your trawling net.

[vagrant solstice]

lol ive got a fair amount of 99s in rs3 but it just doesnt translate to osrs at all

[winter hearth]

It is factoring in the extractor too, or at least is supposed to be. Though it's obviously not simple to provide a 'rough estimate' for every single type of salvaging that people are doing

[elfin oyster]

@winter hearth did your data account for the fact that salvaging is so high because you put the most redacted drop rates from it that meant the most efficient way to get 87-99 as a clogger was to ONLY salvage?

[restive siren]

ah sorry didnt know the wiki just copied it already

[primal cobalt]

I think if there was a blunder it would've been the extractor to begin with. If you don't Include that the XP rate hasn't seemed unreasonable to 80.

[modern notch]

waiting til all big content creators hit 99 before nerfing exp rates?

[graceful agate]

What are you even talking about? The wiki page shows the rates as ~1/16 (Mantas), ~1/22 (Stingrays), ~1/42 (Butterfly/Eagles), as someone that spent most of this morning farming Ray Barbs, these are about the correct droprates, so @winter hearth you might want to take a look at this (though they're in a good spot right now, increasing scarcity to the article's listed rates wouldn't necessarily be a good idea)

[elfin oyster]

Like, go into valiance, vintage, oblv and the clogger discords and ask them all why theyre all salvaging

[proven sedge]

@winter hearth these rates are 200M sailing exp on rate for pet

[elfin oyster]

its not because of xp/h its because of how rare the clogs are

[glossy briar]

@winter hearth is the droprate for barracuda trials per "lost supplies" picked up or actual completion? 1/9k at glide seems like 180-200m xp kinda range

[elfin oyster]

the efficient clogger meta is to not sail and just salvage because the rates are so absurd

[fervent isle]

1/9000 is hilarious

[round lintel]

Well off to lose my sanity and fingers once again at gwenith glide

[winter hearth]

Yeah I've made a note of the question marks around trial pet rates and whether or not those are accurate or sensible

[quartz locust]

As of right now combat on the boat after early encounters is only viable with safespots because we can't live through encounters when we're unable to even bring enough repair kits to survive even 1 encounter with something 😅

[hollow anchor]

Buff salvaging

[vagrant solstice]

Buff salvaging

[restive siren]

it also shows as 1/100 on a different page, i didnt realise it was updated already

[analog crow]

Is the intention that people will get to 95 sailing exclusively chasing the dragon cannon at merchants salvage?

[modern notch]

nerfing it mate

[dire mango]

But this update doesn't change those incentives in any way. You're not less incentivized to upgrade your boat now with the update compared to before. Much of the upgrade process is spent at frost dragons currently where you don't even get sailing xp.

[hollow anchor]

I know... But making it so bad is not comprehensive

[red acorn]

Yeah... it feels like cargo = sailing inventory. And it should just limit the amount of non sailing exclusive items IMO

[austere mulch]

It takes three ticks (1.8 seconds) to harvest - or four ticks if you count the time it takes to interact with the extractor - meaning that for the time you're actually interacting with the extractor, your effective XP per hour (XP/hr) is around 1,200,000

This is such useless sentiment, to put it bluntly. Because it’s not like fletching that you can just do anywhere - you need to be sailing to do it. It’s like saying “Farming magic trees has 10 ticks of interaction and gives 13.7k xp making it effectively 8m xp/hr when only counting the time you’re interacting with the trees”

Where the ehp of farming is inclusive of the time to do the farm run

That said - everything else is fine lol

[torn dew]

salvaging nerf while not doing anything about ship combat to promote bounty tasks as training variety is diabolical lool

[vernal maple]

@restive siren You can trust me on that, the drop rates shared by jagex for Ray barbs are WAY off 😄

[winter hearth]

Will chat through further with the team but think their intent was to try and not have best XP/hr also be meta for pet

[primal cobalt]

Salving is meant for afk not xp

[rough frigate]

exciting sailing progression
<looks inside
20000 frost dragons

[hollow anchor]

its not even that afk

?

[primal cobalt]

It's pretty afk lol I do it for 10h at work

[modern notch]

why not change it right away then?

[vagrant solstice]

??????? not have the most intense active activity in the skill not give the pet

[primal cobalt]

That's a fair question my man

[elfin oyster]

The areas jagex didnt put into the beta tests are showing

[fervent igloo]

this update.. no bueno

[graceful agate]

except that's fitting to a lot of other skills - the best farming pet rates are not the best xp earners, for example - that's a good thing

[winter hearth]

I suppose to try and avoid homogenising training methods and clog methods, but agree that for me personally I think it's fine to have most intense activities sit at best rates (though other skills do have similar e.g. Agility, Thieving)

[drifting ermine]

So when you say you're looking into "redistributing" exp from extractor to other places, and all I see is nerfs/no changes to the exp across all sailing, where exactly is this exp being redistributed?

[proven sedge]

but even port tasks at a 1/3k is insane man

[tiny epoch]

yeah its not redistribution its a straight nerf to sailing

[round lintel]

This doesnt make sense that you force people to spend more time in a skill xd is like if you say sepulchre shouldnt have better pet chance than 1 clicking in brimhaven agility

[junior pelican]

abuse early and often as usual gg

[spiral isle]

hopefully future updates

[analog crow]

"sailing isn't just water agility" crew in shambles rn

[quartz locust]

Currently we have no other skills where core features are locked off
This is a strange one to start with due to the sheer amount of restrictions it's added to the skill.
We can't store any non sailing items in the hold, it being restricted is silly and doesn't actually make sense, if we could store non sailing items in the hold not having access at all would make sense, but as of right now it isn't exactly thematic to the mode with how it's being treated 😄

[graceful agate]

Honestly extractor should never have been released at the xp rate it was. It's unfortunate that it stayed in this long, but it's good that it's getting nerfed (honestly, imo, it should be hit harder, to be comparable to trimming xp amounts)

[sturdy wolf]

nowhere lmao. that was all lies to keep the uproad down for a bit before actual update hits. jagex decided to buff SLIGHTLY the exp rates in 2 content that in reality almost no one fucking sane person does even... an absolute joke

[modern notch]

old school old school runescape when?

[elfin oyster]

Not even a mention of the fact that sailing post 85 is a gigantic fk you to irons. Want dragon parts? Get fk'd - jagex

[dire mango]

horizon lure now working with trial completions. Take it or leave it

[pulsar oxide]

deliveroo is now every so slightly more rewarding

[vagrant solstice]

bro menulog is closing in australia, sailing nerfed fk

[primal cobalt]

To the caves with ye

[analog crow]

Uber eats needs a bigger buff than that to be worth imo

[spice talon]

L update.

[winged mantle]

gg sailing . was great to try to train it

[pulsar oxide]

let me load my boat without having to get on it at least

[restive siren]

ofc it makes sense. in almost all training methods you are balancing rewards against each other, those being exp/hour, pet chance, gp/hour. intensity can play a role too and it should probably not be the worst method to pet but it definitely shouldnt be the best either as its already best exp/hour

[winged mantle]

not keen on jubbly or port tasks

[fervent igloo]

ignoring ship combat being terrible by saying "its not meant to be a combat skill" feels a bit cheap

[vagrant solstice]

@winter hearth when is Sailing 2?

[frozen lion]

back to 23 skills, 24th became joke as of now

[dire mango]

Currently you only need a rosewood hull and mast for the skiff, maybe hooks if you salvage a lot. The 20k for max all boats or whatever is self imposed.

[primal cobalt]

Lol we're such a dramatic community sometimes

[hearty oak]

Still better than trials imo

[round lintel]

fr go salvage for 600 hrs for a cannon part, go spend shit ton of cannonballs and repair kits on metal parts or go kill insane amount of frost dragons, but also you want a dragon hook? go spend 50 hrs on sharks that eat thru your kits if you dont know how to safespot

LMAO

[deep moss]

sailing is dead aaaaaaaah

[pulsar oxide]

yeah why even have combat

[restive siren]

werent people getting like 120-150k already? with a 15% buff thats pretty big

[viral belfry]

Honestly, the extractor should have never given XP in the first place. The nerf is good.

[pulsar oxide]

sailing level?

[analog crow]

Trials feel terrible so yeah I agree for the sake of my mental wellbeing

[fervent igloo]

someone didnt read the rest of the blog

[primal cobalt]

To Davey jones with the extractor!

[red acorn]

The cooked fish! /s

haha - yeah, I did do a small amount of early sailing and enjoy the challenge of juggling invent for boat upgrades. But the concern is just the ship health for me, hence I'm waiting

[long salmon]

Let me put a crewmate on nerfed extractor pls

[lunar hawk]

Sailing 2025-2025 lol

Sailing died so fast

[remote sphinx]

im on board with them just deleting extractor personally....the rest of the xp changes idk tho

[dire mango]

agreed, it's just an annoying addon for training with a "click me every minute" button

[lean escarp]

look how they massacred my boy

[frozen lion]

but delete all exp players got through them first

[vagrant solstice]

yes but you cant have people abuse it for 2 weeks, get their 99s and then nerf it when you know it was a problem before the skill even released, there is no chance no dev developing this skill sat there and saw a 600xp/minute button and said yeah, this is it

[hearty oak]

I’m glad the news is out I was dying of boredom salvaging while feeling guilty about wasting xp because of incoming nerfs lmao

[lunar hawk]

Everyone rioting on Reddit, the more ppl riot the faster they revert

[umbral wind]

Remember when they released crab, 10 minutes of true AFK, loved by all, decent xp rates even with reduced xp, Jagex staff talking fondly about the players enjoying crab

Salvaging, barely 1minute AFK unless doing double crewmate salvage (and even then if you're not world hopping it's very mid)
NERF IT NOW HOW DARE THEY

[graceful agate]

They've stated clearly that there'll be multiple rounds of changes, smacking down the blatantly broken thing needed to happen. Buffs to other xp earners can come in time. People need to be patient lol

[potent dagger]

jobless jim bout to stay jobless now

[drifting ermine]

I don't honestly care about the extractor nerf, but the salvaging tech is going to be to drop all salvage now, which is terrible game design in my eyes.

[lunar hawk]

Sailing is not worth training anymore lol

[viral belfry]

Changing it after two weeks is better than two months, and better than two years. If it was ever going to be changed, now is better than any time in the future.

[pulsar oxide]

especially as the fastest people to max were people who hated the skill in the first place and just wanted their capes back

[spice talon]

We're staying on land now boys.

[hearty oak]

Agreed I’m done salvaging only going to port tasks from
Now

[drifting ermine]

"Collect this material just to drop it"

[polar raptor]

Yeah the cleaning nerf is just horrible no clue why they are doing this. Ruins the active method of salvaging yourself now we are forced to drop it

[timid scarab]

I understand that viewpoint, but it's just that a lot of my friends are quitting because to them all sailing has to offer is agility 2.0 or "fetch quest". 3 years of development, first skill in OSRS after 12 years etc. and there's nothing really bringing people into the skill for enjoyment - instead it's more or less a self contained "xp skill". I.e., the core aspect of osrs is to some not captioned in the skill and that I guess brings some worry towards the future of the game, seeing how you've consistently said that sailing HAS to be good/perfect upon release because of the heavy stigma around the new skill and the majority of the player base not voting on it - and this is what comes out.

At least giving one more actual path to lvl the skill through combat (which is deeply rooted and arguably the cornerstone of OSRS) would maybe not push people over the threshold of hating the skill. It's not like ship combat can't be improved at a fundamental lvl if an **ad hoc xp boost **is brought in.

[analog crow]

The xp rates themselves are fine
But the skill needs to feel good to train according to those rates

[graceful agate]

agreed, I do think toning down salvaging xp evenly would've been better - people are still going to 30m afk, they're just going to drop salvage now and afk even harder

[primal cobalt]

Put extractor XP into cleaning and trimming

[pseudo mirage]

let the streamers all get 99 then nerf the xp, sounds legit

[lunar hawk]

JAGEX motto

[pulsar oxide]

gone from a useful skill to woodcutting 2.0

[elfin oyster]

Look, lets be real, nobody actually likes extractor, but we were told the xp/hr was getting redistributed, not just removed and then also nerfing the xp/h where it was used most

[west valve]

well great job fixing sailing, i logged back in to a port rather than on my boat

[burnt rain]

just like with the 10k bonus xp they got pre level 30

[lunar hawk]

Sailing 2025-2025

[hearty oak]

I like the crystals

[viral belfry]

Straight up, the XP rates don't change the actual skill mechanics or interactions. Sailing was fun from day one, I've enjoyed it the whole way, I'll continue doing it the same I always did before. Hope some Jagex dev sees at least one positive opinion here, thanks for a great skill, sincerely

[pulsar oxide]

would have been fine if they just removed extractor and left everything alone tbh

[drifting ermine]

Dragon cannons about to skyrocket btw

[fervent igloo]

Once again, maybe read the rest. Buffs wouldnt be necessary if half of what people actually do wasnt being nerfed. Crystal extractor was op it needed the nerf, the rest is whats questionable

[digital falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/john-travolta-well-where-is-it-looking-for-something-gif-5291661

[vagrant solstice]

I said this before, this whole thing has felt blizzard like. "FUN DETECTED" nerfs and no give backs, im not saying salvaging or the extractor was healthy but find alternative methods to fix this issue instead gutting the extractor and nerfing salvaging a part of the skill that everyone has been engaging and loving.

[digital falcon]

everyone looking for the extractor redistributed exp

[winged mantle]

where is the jar of feathers display case

[meager flame]

Interesting that they didn’t tell people about being on task for better rates in the first place

[round lintel]

For me sailing is:

• Big money sink for ship parts
• Massive amount of time on the skill without interacting with the game and other skills rather than smithing and construction and they even nerfed those
• A troll for irons if they want to upgrade their ships
• Unbalanced drop rates
• Not a skill to enjoy post 99

[analog belfry]

this made me laugh too lol

[umbral wind]

lol, seems like they nerfed the range of salvaging hooks as well, where i had 2 dudes salvaging before, now only 1 can reach

[meager flame]

Really delaying the real feedback of “now how do I even get the task”

That they would’ve been bombed with for 2 weeks

[vagrant solstice]

No one expected the salvaging nerfs, we knew the extractor was being gutted which was totally fair, but salvaging got double nerfed while trials got nerfed themselves. The skill has been out for 2 weeks, they saw these issues early, they had it in a blog post literally last week. This update shouldve come in the first week or not at all

[restive siren]

buddy everyone expected salavaging nerfs

[graceful agate]

Again lol, I've read the rest. People need to appreciate that we don't have a divine right for xp rates to always stay the same. Certain methods were too strong, they've been nerfed. Jagex clearly don't want to break other methods instead, so are being cautious about buffs. This is exactly what was expected with a new skill release.

[winged mantle]

the rates were already low enough

[lunar hawk]

Sailing 2025-2025

[restive siren]

cope

[meager flame]

But yeah idk once again weirdly waiting another week for actual improvements

Good port task buff though

[dense hearth]

So can we talk about why are we all back at pandemonium randomly

[vagrant solstice]

not like this, they outright said the extractor gutting would be redistributed, a lot of people believed they intended salvaging to be this chill well paced method. It isnt cope. Okay sure nerf it. But to double nerf it, a bit wild bro

[restive siren]

its still well paced and chill

[minor panther]

It's almost like people are humans and while they may have noticed the issues, it still takes time to fix them 😩 👌

[restive siren]

but now its somewhat balanced

[round lintel]

Not even that big of a buff considering the extractor nerf and port tasks taking sooo long to complete

[restive siren]

not broken af

[graceful agate]

it's unfortunate, but I'd rather have a week of slightly slower xp rates than them accidentally breaking something else

[magic zodiac]

Any news how long till update is completed yet?

[dense hearth]

its done

[frozen lion]

damn unlocking extractor now feels so crappy

[elfin oyster]

Abuse Early Abuse Often - Jagex, literally always, forever, til the end of time

[buoyant quiver]

oh, I was south of the Void Knights, parked nicely between two salvage spots

[winter hearth]

it's live already

[analog belfry]

believing that they were actually gonna redistribute the xp was the real cope

[magic zodiac]

Ok thank you guys !

[reef shale]

@delicate glen @vague viper Wait.....so let me get this right......you guys are nerfing the only good parts of sailing "extractor, salvaging, and a anything afk" but not changing any of the the terrible parts? "Ship combat, bounty tasks, and the literal only meta which is trials? How are you gonna wait 2 weeks for an update and make everything worse? Wtf Jagex? Buff Bounty tasks atleast this whole dont wanna make items less valuable mentality is so dumb, most players are on Irons anyway, nobody cares about the price of repair kits and cannonballs

[buoyant quiver]

and they moved a rock on my darn helm

[graceful agate]

port tasks can be insane xp if you run them efficiently

[marble frigate]

RIP woo woo woo. Was fun and glad I scraped my 99 before these nerfs hit. Definitely curious to see this supposed redistribution but wherever its distributed has to be outside of trials because those were made so high active xp/hr.

[winter hearth]

or 'waiters always win', it's always a rock and a hard place

[oblique mesa]

chill?? the people want to get back to ge standing not skilling

[meager flame]

But seriously improved rate on task is great now what are we doing with the weight of 3?

[feral harbor]

sailing was fun with the xp the way it was

im done with sailing now

[solid trout]

This seams wrong why would the trial that is the hardest and longest to complete have the worst rates?

[meager flame]

To you know get the task

[vagrant solstice]

What does this even mean? The abuse early and ofteners won, the waiters lost. How do the waiters win at all?

[feral harbor]

cause they nerfed extractor

[restive siren]

#game-update message

[modern notch]

first time reading that about an update from you

[fervent igloo]

Hey man you're entitled to your opinion, it feels very political, but it's definitely not popular.

[fringe rivet]

This doesn't really change the fact people will be feeling compelled to monkey click the extractor every minute during the "afk" activity

[hasty jewel]

the swift albatross feather rate seems wrong too

[analog crow]

I don't feel like I'm winning chief

[vagrant solstice]

Goblin delete that lmao

[winter hearth]

Mostly meaning to say the reverse is also true, if we release stuff that's rough and then make it way better in future people get annoyed for having spent time on it before it got buffed

[graceful agate]

@winter hearth Huge kudos for being willing to make hard decisions for the long-term health of the skill, and wading into this firestorm to be present and show Jagex is communicating.

[marble frigate]

It reads perfectly fine. They are in a lose lose situation

[meager flame]

Well yeah that’s what’s really happening here anyways tbh

[winter hearth]

Am not a decision-maker, just a messenger!

[fringe rivet]

for me that's courier runs. Gp and Shark paint just wasn't worth it lol

[modern notch]

name 3 updates where "waiters won"

[elfin oyster]

Goblin's the one we have to face, he's not the decider man, just the unlucky soul who has to face chats like this

[remote sphinx]

dunno how you do this job sometimes. i imagine days like this are brutal lol

[meager flame]

Already just dumping post 99 exp trying for barrels or trying to figure out how to get a task with a weight low enough that it’s kind of hard to ever see

[analog belfry]

mixology

huey

[meager flame]

So waiting that out is probably a w for people but it’s whatever

[winter hearth]

Is just the job, no use only chatting if the going's good

[analog crow]

A thankless job to be sure

[solid trout]

mixology, phosanis uhhhhhh

[elfin oyster]

Okay but waiters win is more popular than abuse early abuse often for a reason

[fringe rivet]

what is this supposed to mean?

[dire mango]

I say we shoot the messenger 🔫! Tried and tested method that always works historically.

[vagrant solstice]

I understand what you are saying but its always better to be a waiter than to feel bad for waiting. You have a whole lot of the waiters here telling you this feels not good. I appreciate you in this chat truly.

[knotty bloom]

Yay stress @winter hearth 🤣

[hasty jewel]

everyone is mad about xp and I'm just shocked how rare the pet is:
Squirrel from sepulchre is 1/2000 for floor 5 completion but Soup is 1/9000 from gwenith glide??

[restive siren]

doom, yama, duke, the entire slayer skill, huey, mixology, people doing courier tasks, people doing toa, the list is basically endless

[timid scarab]

If you could activate the extractor without cooldown, that would be the xp.

[oblique mesa]

someone was saying its 200m to be on rate

[solid trout]

effective means "for the time technically interacting with the content" for example the effective exp of birdhouses is INSANE if you think about the run as a stand alone mechanic without a cooldown in between runs

[graceful agate]

to be fair, most people will just be straight back to happily playing the game, chats like this straight after an update are going to be 90% rage, 10% constructive criticism

[umbral wind]

It's meaningless

You can skew 'effective xp/hr' with a whole bunch of stuff to make it look insane if you count only the ticks surrounding an exp drop

[elfin oyster]

the AEAO mindset is limited window to abuse mechanics whereas WW mindset is let the thing reach a fun balanced state and then interacting with it forever is good

[meager flame]

But really instead of attacking goblin lol we should really be asking about things like increased weight for frost dragons

[ancient python]

Did you see the part where soup is like 1/2000 from port tasks?

[meager flame]

Trying to pull that task out of the hat with its weight is horrible

[tiny epoch]

its a fake number

[fringe rivet]

bill's balls are already drained

crikey, give the man some breathing room

[dire mango]

No, keep more grinds outside of slayer. Don't make people feel 'forced' to get a slayer task for every grind.

[analog crow]

Gryphon weight 5 is also bad for an unlockable task

[hasty jewel]

so meta probably just gonna be spam port tasks? that's a shame since I was having so much fun going for pbs at gwenith glide

[analog crow]

Let me farm the pet!

[winter hearth]

For sure, part of the issue is, if people are zooming all the way through the skill, AFKing for rates that can hit half of max eff., then we have a bunch of people at the high end who want content to do but at a cadence that we can't sustain. Also means that adding more types of port tasks or trials is muted because Salvaging is so strong for how chill it is and harms our ability to make meaningful updates in 'the gaps'. Nobody on the team enjoys nerfing stuff or wants to make people mad, but sometimes need to make tough calls for longevity's sake and positioning all of the different aspects of a skill properly

[meager flame]

The alternative is spending all of that time just in the cave off task with 4x the rate

[violet prism]

It feels like this whole chat is just ragebaiting 😂

[solid trout]

Who writes statistics like that?
its 1/424 for merchant
1/46 for orgas
1/65 for Frost dragons?

[feral harbor]

@delicate glen@vague viper theres no way you guys see the 250 xp from the extractor being a good thing

[meager flame]

Getting the task is the play already now it’s just about how terrible that is

[feral harbor]

@delicate glen@vague viperlike 1.2m xp each level from 94

[meager flame]

Not if you’ll do it

[feral harbor]

@delicate glen@vague viperbe honest

[nocturne solstice]

You dont gotta ping em every single time

You cut that out

Just type out one message man

[surreal meadow]

They've nuked the double salavge spot for merchant shipwrecks

Outstanding...

[burnt rain]

all this talk about longevity. super curious to see how many people stop training sailing due to these nerfs lol

[winged mantle]

do you have the numbers on how much slavaging is nerfed with the increased chance for a salvges - the xp nerfs? like how much overall

[dire mango]

there is a new one

[hasty jewel]

honestly think the xp changes to salvaging are fine, but 20k for dragon cannon seems crazy for irons who want 2

[nocturne solstice]

What do you mean? I've got triple double spots

[proven sedge]

the whole rates blog is absolute shambles

[drifting ermine]

My main problem is you have a skill where you gather something that you have to drop in order to get better exp rates. While you could argue things like WCing / mining are the same, those skills have a bank nearby so you at least have the option to bank the loot.

[surreal meadow]

The usual spot isnt working

[nocturne solstice]

Obligatory Woooo

[ancient python]

Thats just meta for pet. Xp meta will still be gwenith marlin

[meager flame]

That’s because it is insane

[dire mango]

try one of the new ones. easier to set up

[meager flame]

lol like I’m over 14m exp already no cannons

[winter hearth]

Estimates I was given think stuff should level out at about 20-30% worse, but there are too many variables for that to hold up with every single way that folks were salvaging, and also the impact of some of the QoL changes

[elfin oyster]

The problem we have after such nerfs is now we are in the limbo before waiters win.

Everyone here is now likely better off waiting til you add xp to fishing, revert some of these changes or add new tasks, thus we find ourselves in a waiters win boat regardless.

Thus its better to release weak and buff rather than release strong and nerf. And this is from someone who always plays updates on release and would suffer from a permanent waiters win mindset

[analog crow]

Nuking the xp for cleaning salvage i really don't get
You're encouraging ppl to just drop the salvage?

[remote sphinx]

actually yea curious @winter hearth ....it said soup went up to 1 in 3150 for port tasks at 99 but also that it scales on level for the task.

iirc the highest task you can get from courier is at level 80. does this mean the rate for soup doesnt increase from 80-99?care to clarify?

[feral harbor]

lol gg's osrs

[tall yarrow]

Lmao Reddit crying because they can’t get 99 by afking and doing nothing else anymore

[potent dagger]

why does the blog's bullet point spacing make it look like there are multiple sources for the dragon cannon barrel?

[analog belfry]

yes

[winged mantle]

dam so even with the increased chance it's that bad?

[charred acorn]

Can we discuss how the Meta for barracuda paint is to spam tempor because it’s quicker and the rate is lower than the highest tier trial???????

[plucky drift]

I really feel like extractor should just be zero xp.

[winter hearth]

Will seek some extra clarity and pass on to the Wiki if more specifics would be helpful

[analog belfry]

they said they dont want sorting salvage to be much better than dropping it

[remote sphinx]

❤️

[meager flame]

Tbh I don’t really think they needed to change the salvage exp outside of extractor

Trials already were way better to 99

[winter hearth]

the increased chance is a little offset by the d ecreased rate

[tall yarrow]

Imagine getting more exp by engaging actively with the skill

[marble frigate]

Well have fun all. Back to hunting for the pet for me. Also sorry to those who didnt get their 99s earlier. Time is precious so enjoy your time

[fringe rivet]

lmao

it's already full

[meager flame]

And yeah I feel bad for people who aren’t already 99 a bit

[fervent isle]

reddit is taking this update well lmfao

[winged mantle]

we'll i'll be waiting to engage with sailing after the next update 🙂

[austere mulch]

So, basically a remake of jubbly trials but with your crew firing a cannon as a side task instead of throwing toads at towers 😭

[tall yarrow]

Yeah they should go back to rs3 if they want 99s by afking for a week

[viral belfry]

next you'll tell me this discord is taking it well

[fringe rivet]

reddtors want to browse reddit, not play the game

[winged mantle]

gl all

[orchid ibex]

I like sailing. This week's update is a huge L

[meager flame]

It felt reasonably paced to me when I spent tons of hours to hit 99 very similar to other skills

[umbral wind]

Someone here said 'most of us are playing irons' earlier and it was funny to me

~450,000 total people ranked on sailing
~90,000 ironman
so 360,000 mains
Even if you generously say 70% of that is bots 'most of us' are playing mains

[viral belfry]

(I haven't checked reddit yet)

[meager flame]

So I know that nerf hurt

[gaunt knot]

Is the salvaging Soup rate calculated as hooking and cleaning. Or is the number in the blog just hooking?

[fervent isle]

take a gander, they are losing their minds lmao

[plucky drift]

Does your ironman include group and ultimate and hardcores?

[drifting pasture]

what is this bs update?

[solid trout]

@winter hearth where the gameplay styles for salvaging listed in order of wished exp/hr wishes by the team?

[viral belfry]

I don't have to see it to believe it LOL

[drifting pasture]

68k/h for merch salv?????

[elfin oyster]

As opposed to in here where everyones calm?

[drifting pasture]

fock right off

[elfin oyster]

y'all acting like this isnt identical to reddit

[burnt forge]

Why the fuck was salvaging AND crystal extractor nerfed? Wasnt the xp supposed to be redistributed? Where did it go?

[fringe rivet]

I still want the extractor to only charge while you're moving. I just don't like being "encouraged" to click it every minute during the mostly afk-activity

[meager flame]

We all knew that was a lie tbf

[fervent isle]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-comendo-picoca-gif-9669437860846841235

[fervent igloo]

to the people who played the first 2 weeks

[burnt forge]

True mb

[fringe rivet]

honestly I agree, 30 minutes afk is a lot

[warm epoch]

crate hitboxes need to be reverted

[ancient python]

Same tbh

[solid trout]

true i aint seeing what got buffed

[meager flame]

Like not even kidding in my clan they saw the redistribute thing we laughed and said that’s never happening it’s a nerf

[fervent isle]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-duck-gif-1363576254939741235

more like this

[meager flame]

And here we are lol

[umbral wind]

ok add UIM and HC and it's an extra ~7000 people
Can't check properly for group

Either way mains are the majority and it's not even close

[tall yarrow]

People want 30 mins afk to get 120k an hour

[solid trout]

that wasnt the case though?

[tiny epoch]

[solid trout]

full afk you got like 60k/hr

[meager flame]

Nah the full afk previously at merchant with rune hooks was like 60k

[sturdy wolf]

im just pissed that jagex said previously that they would "buff the exp rates accordingly to other content after nerfing the crystal extractor" but then proceed to buff minimally the only 2 content that Id say have the lowest amount of people actually doing them... since they kinda suck to begin with lol

[slender tendon]

You're just making up numbers now. 30min afk was like 60k max. lmao

[meager flame]

Paying attention and clicking extractor was over 100

[solid trout]

no longer 30min afk though

[pulsar oxide]

this is revisionism, you had to sort salvage, hook yourself and extractor to get 100+ rates

[hasty jewel]

the wiki said people got the pet from releasing wind motes and crates in barracuda trials (not just finishing the trial), is that not true since they're missing from the rates?

[solid trout]

@winter hearth am i seeing it right that the shellbane can NOT drop the horn of plenty?

[fringe rivet]

Oooo, horizon's lure works on the extractor now

[pulsar oxide]

probably stealth nerfed that

[fervent igloo]

I get that they didn't want empty seas this.. is just not the way to do it

[ancient python]

I 100% got my first soup from trimming my sails during a trial

[plucky drift]

Like how on earth did you manage to breakdown the xp that extractor provides per tick and say that higher effort methods should be more rewarding in the same post but still leave extractor xp competitive with the most high effort methods in the game for the cost off one stupid click.

[floral blaze]

uhhh tldr whats up w this update

[sturdy wolf]

you couldnt technically afk for 30 mins before either since even with rosewood cargohold you'd get full cargohold way before. now with improved rates to getting cargo its even less afk than before

[meager flame]

But yeah idk I guess another week of watching time pass at merchant ships not playing the game hoping a red cannon barrel appears

[charred matrix]

Boat paint systems and drop rates are stupid IMO.

1. Not getting salvors paint from all salvages (even at different rates)
2. Barracuda paint being most common from lower trials is just odd.
3. Blog says Anglers paint is different at base and shimmering (what about vibrant or glistening, are they at base rate or the "shiny shoal" rate ? Can't really tell because logic at other paints is so weird..)
4. If following that logic inky paint should be fastest to get from pygmy krakens

[pulsar oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/oprah-winfrey-everybody-wins-one-for-you-one-for-everyone-gif-5681533

everyone gets a nerf

[sturdy wolf]

that was also already known info lol. the horn drop is ONLY from the regular gryphons. pretty sure that was/had been stated multiple times in the release documents/news posts by jagex about the items and was listed very clearly basically since release day in the wiki etc.

[fringe rivet]

Yea, extractor just shold have been changed to only charge while boat is in movement.
This functionally doesn't change much, salvaging is still a 1 minute clicker, which doesn't feel very "sailory"

[plucky drift]

If you want to future proof sailing having the best xp/hr be a ubiquitous easy unlock that can go on any boat and nothing competes with that facility space, is probably not a good start.

[frozen lion]

buffing activity which no one does past crystal extractor stage does literally nothing to balance it

[solid trout]

mb than

[meager flame]

Yeah we don’t really think the afk methods are healthy long term btw 1 in 20k

[rain drift]

@winter hearth I’m sorry but the fact now to get the best xp you have to drop salvage is such poor game design, how have changes making you not train as intended been approved

[frail bough]

It's so funny watching people try to balance "give me more xp" and "let me afk longer".

[surreal meadow]

I wanna know what they were smoking in cambridge to think up 1/20k for a part of a boat.

[fringe rivet]

I still don't like feeling encouraged to click the crystal button every minute while salvaging

[woven marlin]

top shelf cambridge

[solid trout]

its not that we wanted it longer, we just didnt want it gutted without compensation

[dire mango]

Making sorting worth it was nice for the tick manip methods as well as it allowed some 'natural' moments of lower intensity. Now it's just 3t and drop like any other tick manip method...

[frail bough]

lol

[fervent igloo]

can we stop treating tic manip like its a genuine training method.

[fervent isle]

wya JCW

[charred matrix]

but it is? and liked by many?

[fringe rivet]

xp rates shouldn't be built around tick manipulation in mind
tick manip is not intuitive like swapping prayers

[fervent igloo]

its its literally an outlier

[frail bough]

this i can get behind

[burnt forge]

Its such backward thinking that instead of adding more content to interact with jagex just nerfs the xp to force interaction with the same content for longer

[potent dagger]

its nice for teak chopping tho

[frail bough]

very crazy to think that not everything can get fixed in one update

im actually baffled that the game isn't just perfect

[solid trout]

i like 2 tick harpooning but i dont want fishing to be balanced around it

[drifting ermine]

To be fair, currently getting 80k exp per hour at merchants salvages. The double spots make it more AFK. It is not as bad as I thought it would be.

[true talon]

sailing as a skill/concept is good. i think it will fit well, however its content esp end game will have to be carried by new islands.

[lunar hawk]

JAGEX really killed sailing with this update lol

[dire mango]

If you don't balance around tick manip methods u might end up with tick manip unintentionally beating out other methods that was intended as BIS. Better to be aware of them rather than ignoring them.

[burnt forge]

Crazy that this patch didnt need to happen and the game would be better for it

[quartz locust]

So, when’s the jar of feathers going in the poh

[frail bough]

how?

[fervent igloo]

I'm not against it being there, but the xp rates make it a huge outlier so when balancing for the vast majority, it doesnt really balance

[frail bough]

simply disagree

[true talon]

i feel extractor nerf already hurt salvaging the most

[lunar hawk]

Sailing 2025-2025 lol

[true talon]

they didnt need to hit salvaging more

[solid trout]

so what you are saying is, i could not tick manip for better rates at activity A, but if i tick maniped at activity B i get more exp?

Sounds good to me

[frail bough]

yeah, how

[lunar hawk]

The more ppl
Who complain and riot the faster things get reverted

[burnt forge]

You think less xp is equivocally just better?

[fringe rivet]

well maybe uninituitive gameplay like having to bring tar making supplies to tree chopping shouldn't be a thing

[austere mulch]

Kodai (slayer ehp)
Sepulchre (agility ehp)
Crystal Skilling equipment (mining and woodcutting ehp)
Rune crafting outfit (Ironman rune crafting)

Etc.

That said, it’s much more expected to see things improve over time

[lunar hawk]

Falador riot already started world 486

[solid trout]

im out of the loop, how did the kodai get easier with the slayer update?

[frail bough]

i think that reading the blog is easy and that their justifications make a lot of sense

feedback is fine but saying the entire patch didnt have to happen is actually crazy

did you actually read everything or nah?

[dire mango]

I'm saying method A could be more engaging and fun by intention than B, but if you don't balance with B in mind then you might end up with B being the best instead.

[fringe rivet]

Just nerfing Extractor XP instead of making it only charge during movement is a perfect example of Jagex trying to appeal to everyone

[lunar hawk]

He seems like an abuse early guy

[burnt forge]

Qol is good but all xp is nerfed

[fervent igloo]

485 and 486 is full af lol

[solid trout]

people doing what is more fun for them? inconsiveable

[frail bough]

okay... and? lol

[burnt forge]

Do you just want less xp everywhere?

[dire mango]

You're missing my point entirely.

[lunar hawk]

Guys more ppl who complain and riot the faster it will be reverted

[plucky drift]

I do think lowering afk rates is a good thing. Though not sure specifically about this salvage tuning, i like that goal. I think extractor should just have zero xp. It is a completely stupid thing to have as skilling xp and crystal shards are enough extra bonus beyond the normal function of the facility.

[austere mulch]

Yes but with birdhouses, you’re also including the context of the run itself. Not just the interaction time

This message is leaving out the context of the fact that you need to be sailing to use the extractor, meaning you’re limited to gaining sailing related xp as a whole and it’s better expressed as true xp:hr not effective xp

[burnt forge]

I think they shouldve left salvaging as it was and remove the fucking extractor

[lunar hawk]

Sailing is dead content lmao

[fringe rivet]

the extractor xp is now half the mostly afk method lol

[solid trout]

your logic is false

If someone does not wish to do Tick manip they would do activity A
If someone wants to do Tick manip they would do activity B
How would this cause noone to do A, you are saying just cause tick manip B is better noone does A despite many people not wanting to do tick manip methods?

[dire mango]

I'm advocating for that they should balance with tick manip methods in mind because there is a part of the community that likes it. Going against the dude that said they should just ignore it when making skills.

[fringe rivet]

I'm letting my crew salvage and I sort while I sometimes pluck from the extractor. Getting about 30k an hour

[solid trout]

oh it is, i was just trying to explain what is mend with "effective exp"

[austere mulch]

Kodai was a massive buff to slayer xp, as was kourend in general with catacombs barrage tasks. The 200m crowd was surprisingly vocal despite being so small lol

[frail bough]

So while we appreciate that nobody likes a nerf, we hope that you're able to meet us halfway and appreciate that we need to finetune things with longevity in mind, rather than a rush to the finish line.

This, along with multiple other places in the blog suggest more changes after feedback from surveys - which are probably almost more useful than just saying "everything bad".

[plucky drift]

I mean i think their salvaging changes missed the mark but i think the high end salvaging afk xp was a bit high. But extractor also kinda mucked up that number a ton. Id be fine with fully removing the facility too. Its terrible design.

[solid trout]

yeah i missunderstood the statement and though they mend the slayer QoL improved kodai grind, somehow

[foggy thistle]

Go Home goblin, you're drunk.

[hardy frost]

Jagex it really wasn't hard to fix. Crystal extactor only charges when ship is actively moving.

Sorting salvage remains the same, crystal extractor only rewards those actively playing and takes 36k xp from afk players

Why did you overtune it? It really wasn't a hard fix..

[fervent igloo]

taking into consideration outlier xp rates makes balancing xp unbalanced. especially when they're used by a very, very, VERY small part of the population

[austere mulch]

Oooh gotcha

[lone remnant]

This is our fault tbh if we don't respect our own time Jagex wont either lol

[knotty torrent]

I just wish they found another way to nerf the 2 crew + self sorting without nerfing it all

[foggy thistle]

Its now 70k an hour for highly non afk, afk

[austere mulch]

Fwiw if you’re clicking extractor every min, that’s not afk.

Nerfing extractor alone was a sizable nerf to salvaging

[lunar hawk]

JAGEX had all these years to figure this shit out and still messed it up

[foggy thistle]

straight up 50k exp per hour reduction when you're still paying attention. what the hell

[foggy thistle]

100%

[lunar hawk]

Merchant ship wrecks take like 3 min to spawn back

[knotty torrent]

frem are busted aswell, the cycle is gone

[foggy thistle]

Cant wait to see how many people just refused to do the skill now.

[hardy frost]

Yeah and you have to pay more attnetion to afk now as well or you get less xp there too. so afk and active training methods have both been ruined

[hexed drum]

gotta love parking on a double and now its gone

[lunar hawk]

No one’s doing the skill anymore it’s dead

[winter hearth]

have raised reports of weirdness for Frem shipwrecks to the team

[frail bough]

The same ones who werent going to do it to begin with

[foggy thistle]

yeah bro hard out, it's so stupid.

[dire mango]

If the outlier xp is high enough you will feel more incentivized to do it, and thus feel worse when you can't. Jagex should take into account both the most engaging, best methods and the most afk, slowest methods like they did with sailing.

[plucky drift]

Extractor having any relevant xp amount is just completely silly as far as designing skill training since it takes effectively very little time away from anything else youre doing and a facility spot isnt a high opportunity cost since nothing competes with it.

[lunar hawk]

It’s all busted even the merchant cycle is all messed up

[foggy thistle]

I mean i was keen for the skill. It released, i didn't enjoy it, kept pushing through, pounded out jubbly even though it sucked. Enjoyed gwenith and got bored of it

[warm epoch]

can we take a look at the lost crates hitboxes? gwenith marlin trial sucks now

[plucky drift]

They even stupidly calculated the xp/hour from ticks lost by extractor and somehow said 1mil sailing xp/hr isnt okay but 500k is.

[frail bough]

why are you even there, i thought sailing died

[hasty jewel]

@winter hearth do you know if the rates for soup listed are just the base rate and being higher level makes it more common? i.e. if marlin time on gwenith glide is actually 1 in 3000 or if you're lvl 99 it's really 1 in (3000 - 25 * 99)

[foggy thistle]

actually started to enjoy salvaging 90+ then they take it away..

[lunar hawk]

We pay we say

[plush plover]

I was hoping to see 15-20s added across all tiers of all trials as a minimum, especially for those with lower performing pc's but xp nerfs across the board except deliveroo is just brutal

[frail bough]

all before todays update? so you literally dont count lol

[hexed drum]

Also want to know the answer on this

• big fan

[lunar hawk]

There’s a reason why the update post on Reddit has 0 updates

Upvotes

[glass basalt]

harvesting the crystal extractor barely gives more exp then getting 1 opulent salvage now
what a joke for something you need to activly click
and the salvage you get barely gives any exp cleaning now...just...revert

[meager flame]

i mean yeah its prime 007 meme material

[dire mango]

Yeah the reason is that no gaming community handles nerfs in a healthy way.

[meager flame]

i understand they want to slow roll feedback and changes but like

[graceful agate]

This is the take that needs more attention. Honestly I think it was a case that someone was a bit too married to the idea of the crystal extractor just being a core part of all sailing forever from the moment you unlock it. It's not fun and it's not healthy for xp rates.

[meager flame]

at some point they actually have to make things better instead of just stopping by to say "we hear your concerns heres another nerf"

[foggy thistle]

I'm saying you're wrong. I wanted to do it, have done it all, and now i dont want to do it. Post 90 has zero benefit but it was atleast somewhat compelling to do as the rates were reasonable.

[meager flame]

people are probably just impatient and annoyed currently

[foggy thistle]

If they wanted the skill to be more relevant to the game, they should've added something to tie it into the main game.

[frail bough]

The message was in reference to post update, you already stopped pre update.

[glass basalt]

also it seems the merchant double spot has been screwed up somehow

[foggy thistle]

No, i've stopped post update..

[bronze kernel]

I get it. Sailing was much faster than I anticipated. And probably the same thing happened with Jagex.

[meager flame]

its because they changed how range works for salvage hooks

so you have to figure out new positioning

[frail bough]

looks like i made the assumption that you stopped since you said you got bored, my bad

ubbly even though it sucked. Enjoyed gwenith and got bored of it

[hardy frost]

It was the instant fix that made sense in my brain. RuneScape has always rewarded the people putting in that extra effort so remembering to hit that on the minute every minute was just that extra bonus

[meager flame]

idk why they did that personally

[lunar hawk]

Merchant spots are all screwed up the cycle of respawning is messed up takes like 3 min

[tiny epoch]

any thoughts on allowing moving facilities without deleting & recreating

[austere mulch]

Wym, you’re not motivated for the 1/20k chance at a worthwhile drop from salvaging for pennies worth of xp? You should be motivated be the reward!

[meager flame]

why not just make players have the same salvage range that the npcs did previously

and add more spots

[glass basalt]

oh I know, people having a hard time even finding a new spot now since it was not taken into consideration with the update

[foggy thistle]

Nah man, my point is that even though i'm not thoroughly enjoying it, myself and many others have stuck with the exp grind because salvaging is tolerable.

[meager flame]

that way what worked works and you know

no weird situations happen

[austere mulch]

🐐

[lone remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/american-psycho-willem-dafoe-duh-duhh-obviously-gif-16794513

Just add more time to the skill instead of tying any content into the game to make sure sailing retains players

[frail bough]

i think that the probably 2nd best afk xp rate is probably still tolerable but to each their own i suppose

[fervent igloo]

It's a circle at this point, die on your hill alone bud. treating a method that .0000001% of the population actually uses like a legitimate option effects balancing for the other 99.9999999% If the rates are broken around tick manip clearly it can be nerfed retroactively. It's outliers and averages man. esp when tick manip was never meant to be a method and so much is put into "training skills as intended"

[lunar hawk]

Sailing 2025-2025

[glass basalt]

I have almost finsihed the salvaging clog entirely, including 2x salvors paint, but this change is just a punch to the face

[woven phoenix]

I am now getting 35k xp/h AFKing merchant shipwrecks in a double spot with two rune hooks, with occasional extractor and cleaning all salvage. This can't be the expected rate, it's not worth doing at all and is much less AFK than something like start mining which is a similar rate

[meager flame]

i do think they basically cooked way too much over things that were ultimately okay

maybe a small change here or there but like

they came in with a lot of unasked for changes and ppl are now pissed lol

[foggy thistle]

I mean it's more active than wintertodt g, and that's 350k an hour

[digital falcon]

you're delusional if you think they're gonna revert anything lol

[frail bough]

okay great, what i said is still accurate

[true talon]

bring out the cannons

[dire mango]

Using the well known strategy of 'pulling numbers out of my ass' seems to be very effective for your argument.

[south kernel]

I understand off Topic, but can Negative XP lamps be RE-Polled please, i gained 2 defence unfairly. Thanks.

[lone remnant]

my other cannon barrel at the bottom of the ocean at 35 exp a pop

[stray tinsel]

Sailing beta test #4? Did yall really think they'd have the skill finished before releasing it

[fervent igloo]

the fact that you can't tell that it was an intentional exaggeration tells me just about all i need to know

[tribal oyster]

@winter hearth With what is already an obscene grind for ironmen to get a max boat - especially grinding for hooks, 2x cannons and now frost dragons being accessible only whilst on task - is there anything going to be introduced so this doesnt become a possible 2k+ hour grind?

[meager flame]

im trying this atm i think it might work but if not

[lunar hawk]

I’ll bet u 100m they will buff this update

[meager flame]

theres a diagonal in there i know will work

but i dont want to try to do that every time

[frail bough]

i hope not, they literally said it wasnt lol

[lone remnant]

you need to relax buddy its ok

[quiet plank]

What'd you do

[digital falcon]

Probably will next week, but they literally said in the blog that feedback will be taken in to account on the next weeks update

[frail bough]

give feedback on survey

[digital falcon]

So you're betting 100m on a guarantee they already admitted

[burnt forge]

They literally said crystal extractor xp would be redistributed

[lunar hawk]

abuse early abuse often

[frail bough]

you're responding to the wrong thing, sorry

[lunar hawk]

I’m glad I’m 92 I used the bronze hook method

[graceful agate]

I'm not against it having an xp tick tied to it - runescape in general does 'reward doing things' - but honestly the speed boost for active content should've been more than enough incentive to use it, and rates should've been at most commensurate with manual trimming / mote use. 40xp would've been fine, 80 generous, 250 is probably still excessive and 600 was absurd. They should take the channel off the station (so it's a 'click once, get thing'), and bring the xp rate down to a small, nice bonus, not an utterly core mechanic that every discussion about the skill's xp rates needs to be based around.

[meager flame]

also this does in fact work if anyone was wondering

at least for the crewmates

[south kernel]

I Changed my Runecross bow to longranged in LMS, which than after the game i went into PvP and my Crossbow was Pre-set to Longranged and gained me 2 defence.

[glass basalt]

this works but...the exp is sickening low

[lunar hawk]

Xp is horrible

[oak steppe]

67k p/hr its fkn shit

[lunar hawk]

What happened to the xp redistribution

[lone remnant]

xp is fine

[digital falcon]

they redistributed it into thin air

[lunar hawk]

Everyone says other wise

[burnt forge]

Xp was fine*

[lunar hawk]

It wil be changed anyways

[fringe rivet]

courier runs were boosted?

[lunar hawk]

Back

[mental perch]

look w302 cannons

[warm epoch]

thats not what the term means

[meager flame]

i mean im ngl the exp is pretty ass compared to yesterday but you know

[potent dagger]

👉

[lone remnant]

nah, xp is fine

[meager flame]

should've gotten 99 already

i guess

[lunar hawk]

World 486 riot has started at Falador. Lots of ppl here

[mental perch]

paid actor

[cloud walrus]

why is tick manipulation even considered a thing to balance around? So now its just 3 tick or GG (im struggling to get above 65k xp/hr down from 110k/hp which is more than the % expected). Also why is charting not being looked at? 50xp for charting something in dangerous waters is silly

[fringe rivet]

yes it is? salvaging shouldn't be at the same rates as courier runs

[lunar hawk]

If world 486 is full we are hosting another riot 488

[lone remnant]

nah im just realistic lol. its still decent exp compared to every other afk method in the game

[meager flame]

redwoods are better

[burnt forge]

Yea courier needs to be buffed

[warm epoch]

it isnt lol

[meager flame]

assuming we're actually talking real afk

[frail bough]

"they dont respect my time by giving 30 mins afk"

[digital falcon]

one small favour as a exp for a skill shouldn't be a thing either

[warm epoch]

plenty of afk methods that are better

[meager flame]

if you were actually clicking extractor and salvaging yourself too that wasn't really afk

[lone remnant]

its literally 30 minutes of straight afk

[meager flame]

that was just low effort

[lone remnant]

you guys are high on your own supply

[sick magnet]

Which ones?

[burnt forge]

I pay I afk

[winter prism]

lol nerf 130k -> 65-67k while efficient without tick manipulation is sick.. really not 20-30 prcent

[fringe rivet]

and firemaking shouldn't either

[dire mango]

They are balancing around afk, not 3t. 3t was already worse than trials at almost every level.

[frail bough]

you still pay and can still afk

[digital falcon]

That's not even close to similar

[lunar hawk]

World 488/486 Falador riot happening rn! Bring ur friends

[fringe rivet]

neither is comparing courier runs to a quest

[austere mulch]

And are actually afk too

[burnt forge]

For 30-40% less xp by the looks of things

[lone remnant]

fellas, when a guy with a wall street bets avatar is on your side you know its cooked

[digital falcon]

Other than the fact both One small favour and port runs are cancer and involve the same back and forth between the entire map

but sure

[fringe rivet]

lmao

[potent dagger]

[kindred crescent]

most unpopular update for a while, big Jagex L, reverse all salvaging changes now

[lunar hawk]

Huge L

[meager flame]

i just hate that they did all of this at the same time

[lunar hawk]

Didn’t they have like so many years to figure out the rates feels very rushed to me

[fringe rivet]

nah remove extractor from salvaging all together. It's a movement focused facility

[meager flame]

i want people to talk about how getting a frost dragon slayer task is like crawling through glass

[austere mulch]

The 30min afk thing was never the good xp/hr, unless you’re clicking extractor every min at which point it’s not afk

[meager flame]

but they had to nerf peoples afk on the same day

[austere mulch]

I think we just need to decouple extractor as a whole and start from there

[lone remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-emoji-gif-25749073

[winter prism]

they should not have nerfed salvaging xp , i was still already used hooks myself as it was almost 10% difference

[frail bough]

werent you just saying that by them not talking means they weren't doing anything? or am i misremembering

[meager flame]

yeah

[graceful agate]

enjoy your echo chamber 🤣

[meager flame]

nothing good anyways

i didnt say it was nothing

i was implying that by not talking to people they're basically getting it wrong

[glass basalt]

I am activly using the extractor, salvaging myself.. 33k exp/h at merchant ships
wtf is this

[meager flame]

because they aren't going through their feedback loop

[fringe rivet]

they sadly can't due to the way the elf trials are built

[slender vapor]

I can't wait for phase 2 of the door in the face technique, where they tone back the nerfs 10% and everyone goes back to boot licking

[meager flame]

we're just gonna get a big mystery update and then people are pissed doing it that way

and well

thats what happened

[lunar hawk]

There’s over 200 ppl here already lol

[frozen lion]

at least make this extractor accumulate more, to click it like once per 5 minutes if xp is gonna stay this garbage

[lone remnant]

just play the game boys. We are all to blame by doing stupid long grinds like trained apes so now Jagex cannot respect our time because we didn't respect our time to begin with. the changes arent that bad, just lower your hooks and get salvaging or whatever you were doing.

[gaunt finch]

Am I the only one that thinks the extractor being used as an “click for xp” just doesn’t feel good?

[lunar hawk]

We pay we say

[woeful vortex]

Riot in port sarim on boats

[lunar hawk]

Massive Falador riot world 486/488 over 200 ppl here rn! Voice ur concerns

[meager flame]

this is actually kinda true

although it shouldn't be

[pulsar oxide]

not everything people are upset about is an echo chamber?

[west valve]

isnt everything in this game 'click for xp'

[austere mulch]

I mean from xp conversations

Where do we want salvaging to sit excluding extractor. Regarding xp and afk

Because if you actually go and afk for 30mins, you’re getting like 30k xp/hr

[meager flame]

lmao they've been slow cooking us for awhile by expanding drop rates and asking for more absurd lengths of effort

for a long time

[feral token]

Double salvaging spots been rekt?

[meager flame]

they've been getting pushback since nex atleast though

[frozen lion]

if i waste my time and feel bad about it, its wrong, at least make me waste my time with illusion of good stuff going on

[lunar hawk]

Yes the cycles are broken

[gaunt finch]

It sets a bad precedent where 30% of the xp/afk was actively NOT sailing from your boat

[fringe rivet]

fine by me, afk should reward the lowest exp possible

[gaunt finch]

It makes sense that the decent rates come from actually engaging with the mechanics of the skill

[tiny epoch]

cap

[dire mango]

you're not. i hate it being the "click every min no matter what you're doing" thing instead of a travel-specific boost for more wind charges.

[austere mulch]

Sauce: I’d log in with an empty cargo and set my crew mates to salvage. Then go to bed and wake up with like 13k xp gained over the 25 mins

[frail bough]

i think this only feels that way because there's just more content being added and never removed

"everything has to stay relevant"

[feral token]

Now that salvaging is based on hook location, rather than boat location, you can't put both hooks inside the double area

[austere mulch]

That’s the reality of the “30min afk” salvaging

[frozen lion]

extractor was bad idea to begin with, but people already "exploited" it for 2 weeks already

[lone remnant]

they cant balance it for just you though, it's been a slow burn because we as a community haven't been adverse to long stupid grinds. I'm not moral grandstanding either, I have 1200 pnm kills cause im stupid

[meager flame]

nah its more of like a long long long term comparison between where we started and where we are

[glass basalt]

as you can see, I am salvaging and thats my exp/h

[winter hearth]

these rates should be able to top 90k/hr even with sorting if you're salvaging, crewmate salvaging, sorting occasionally

[meager flame]

we came from a game where our bis drop rates were like barrows chests and kq

[tiny epoch]

double npc salvage + sorting is a bit under 40k

[glass basalt]

well, are you saying I am that unlucky after half an hour of salvaging?

[meager flame]

and now we get 1 in 20k cannon barrels or nex or phosansis

[dire mango]

Sorting should be a part of the core loop of salvaging. dropping should not be the meta imo.

[meager flame]

etc

[lone remnant]

exactly what I'm doing checks out lol

[lunar hawk]

Well they aren’t test it out urself they 40k hr

I’m 92 sailing

[fringe rivet]

doing that rewards me about this much

[frail bough]

yeah but they can't just add 1/16 torva right?

[winter hearth]

Appreciate the frustration but if you're manually salvaging one hook yourself, even with sorting rather than dropping, 40k/hr just isn't true for merchant wrecks with decent hooks*

[austere mulch]

Dropping being meta is hilarious 🤣

[meager flame]

they did start reacting to that pushback at least though and some of the most modern stuff took a step back from crazy numbers like yama for example

[winter prism]

zou tick manipulate no <

[lunar hawk]

Is the guy picture a lie?

[frail bough]

arent you at falador, how are yout esting this?

[lone remnant]

nah im just gaslighting i never reset my xp tracker

[lunar hawk]

I have alts u dweeb

[lone remnant]

o7

[winter hearth]

is Kirby's stream or @lone remnant's?

[lunar hawk]

@fringe rivet pic

[meager flame]

yeah im getting 40k atm maybe a little less

i did have some salvage to clean before i logged in

[winter hearth]

man

[fringe rivet]

I wish we continued to "try" to salvage even if a wreck emptied out, kind of like how we continue to "try" to trawl even if there's no fish

[frozen lion]

are you going to remove obtained xp from people who used extractor before balance? you refunded xp after xp rate change not long after release after all

[meager flame]

thats hard afk

letting my crew do whatever

[lone remnant]

thought I did but I didnt sorry bossman

[meager flame]

so i wouldn't be surprised if it really is 30k

and thats like

honestly thats a huge nerf

like 100%

[lunar hawk]

I agree

[knotty torrent]

Im getting 60k at frems guys, no way yall are getting 40 at merchants..

[winter prism]

i Ccan max 70k with 2.5 prc boost on merc

[tiny epoch]

yea double npc is crazy worse than manual hooking now

[pulsar oxide]

im confused, if you put effort into salvaging you now get lower rates than the afk option we had before?

[fringe rivet]

honestly, if you compare it to say, star mining, 30k afk is still really good

[knotty torrent]

just dont double crew as before

[winter prism]

extractor is actually waste of time to do i think

[burnt forge]

;_;

[glass basalt]

lads EVEN IF the exp is higher then what we are getting. that is still a oversized nerf
and in the wrong area at that, cleaning the salvage should give more exp/h not less

[fringe rivet]

the truth hurts

[nocturne solstice]

I was doing hard afk. 2 crew salvaging, forgetting to crystal, sorting every now and then. Getting about 35k/hr. Pre-update I was getting about 65k/hr doing the same thing.

[meager flame]

idk i think they're probably gonna need to walk some of this back

[frail bough]

people love stars, why can't they love more afk for roughly same rates

[winter prism]

look at mining as a skill though

[meager flame]

the nerf seems larger than the blog implies

[frozen lion]

nice balance.. not balance at all lol

[pulsar oxide]

fine, we all can agree double crew plus extractor was the issue. so why fuck the entire salvaging route altogether

[winter hearth]

35-40 is probably about what our predictions were for AFK, two crewmates on hooks and self-sorting, but may be the case that it's too hefty an overcorrect - for how AFK it is, it's still a well-positioned method relative to other AFK methods in the game imo but appreciate the wider feedback

[feral harbor]

I think with how chill sailing can be , the extractor was a good way for people’s to still get xp rates

[dire mango]

i'm getting this with jobless jim and the ghost salvaging for me, barely clicking extractor. sorting whenever. Are you actually salvaging yourself?

[burnt forge]

Because why settle for worse when we've had better

[fringe rivet]

there's some truth to that

[woven phoenix]

I'm in the same boat. Basically halved with this update

[nocturne solstice]

I think its fine but thats probably because my brain is absolutely fried from RCing xp rates.

[feral harbor]

It’s just a nice achievement for Grinding

[fringe rivet]

in my booty shorts, sadly yes

[frail bough]

because jagex said thats why

[nocturne solstice]

I very much understand the frustration with the update. I think its fine for an AFK activity and will be doing barracuda when I wanna lvl up faster.

[pulsar oxide]

if double crew and extractor was the issue, why have the high effort salvaging options been nerfed?

[flint willow]

They nerfed salvaging what the actual F

[austere mulch]

This isn’t true if you were actually afking before. Coming from someone who doesn’t think salvaging itself needed a nerf, since the extractor alone handles it

[nocturne solstice]

But thats not viable for everyone of course.

[left wolf]

Lost out of the crystal extractor punished for not being able to play 20 hours on release

[meager flame]

yeah i dont think its that insane compared to like star mining and so on but i think people are just going to feel really bad about it because of how steep the drop off was between yesterday and today

[bronze kernel]

The sorting XP nerf was what hurt the most

[fervent igloo]

I've also brought up considering tick manip, its illogical to act like its a method actually used and effect the xp rates for everyone training the skill as intended

[burnt forge]

This is why the poll system exists and should be used

[fringe rivet]

I still say the Extractor should only charge while in movement. The main issue was it made players feel "compelled" to click it every minute

[flint willow]

I was treating salvaging like barbarian fishing why couldnt we have that

[plush plover]

id love to do them, performance issues dont allow it for me personally so its completely unviable

[frail bough]

this is where i mention to vote in the survey

[glass basalt]

make barracuda give actual rewards instead of exp and then we can reviosit the idea of spending effort doing it, but untill then its not a viable training method ^^,

[lunar hawk]

I told u

[winter prism]

nerf was 50 % not 20/30

[pulsar oxide]

yeah completely pointless change

[knotty torrent]

Agree, i wish they gound another way to nerf the 2 crew salvaging...

[burnt forge]

Reducing xp by 30-40% shouldve been fucking polled though

[lone remnant]

@winter hearth I reset now and im still getting 80-90k. my question is, did this nerf take into account moving to new spots or staying at the same double spot?

[knotty torrent]

prob 20-30 to salvaging, but more than 50% for the extractor

[winter hearth]

I'm keen to see how things shake out once people adjust to a slightly less AFK method in salvaging and sorting for yourself, but am still making notes on everything

[bronze kernel]

If they wanted to nerf the double Crewmate and sort yourself once and a while, that's fine

[nocturne solstice]

Nah balancing updates arent polled, otherwise they'll never pass lmao.

[umbral wind]

What is this 'predictions'

Is it so hard to actually just play the game for an hour or two and get an accurate estimation instead of doing some bogus math?

[frail bough]

All xp rates are subject to change, without polling - as a part of polling charter.

[lunar hawk]

Massive Falador riot happening rn world 488/486 we pay we say over 200 people

[winter prism]

zou can relog

[bronze kernel]

But making sorting XP more or less the same across the board is brutal

[woven phoenix]

It depends on your skill of reference. Sure it's comparable to AFK mining methods but I don't think anyone was hoping for sailing to feel as slow as mining. I am getting half of what I would get AFKing redwoods which is a much nicer XP rate without speeding through levels

[lone remnant]

nah you can just just right click reset/hr

[potent dagger]

i've been getting 78k/hr while sweating (not tick manip) at 97 sailing at merchants

[winter hearth]

You can hop for 'free' now since crewmates remember, but some people are reporting some weirdness with respawn times that we're looking into

[austere mulch]

Because stars you don’t have to do in their own instance (sailing) that’s isolated from the rest of the game. Eg. You can just be running tob and grab pick between runs and hit the star

[left wolf]

Crystal extractor Beta testers all got their capes now. 😂

[full palm]

awww 38k an hour

this sucks

[glass basalt]

yeah the respawning is being weird

[frail bough]

a strech but ok

[final lark]

That was the positive I took from this update, thanks

[flint willow]

Yeah dude thanks a million Jamflex

[tiny epoch]

honestly double npc salvaging was too good compared to manual salvaging before the nerf

[graceful agate]

ngl, there's a fair discussion around salvaging xp rates, but I'm pretty sure 90% of the people crashing out about crystal extractor right now didn't even know how broken it was until this morning and are in a fomo rage XD

[meager flame]

yeah respawns are definitely weird you can look around and see a bunch of depleted salvage spots at the same time

and i dont think this was even possible before

[civic aurora]

Im genuinely saddened by the nerfs. Didnt enjoy high level training methods and hitting the one that lets me interact the least makes this feel much worse. Big L.

[fringe rivet]

@winter hearth Honestly, this is the biggest issue that wasn't addressed to me.
It still feels compulsory.

It should have only charged while the boat was moving.

[lone remnant]

to also put this into perspective, my method was always salvage myself, sort when full and then use 2nd crewmate, and that was averaging 91.3k over a week. now it seems like anywhere from 60-80k

[pulsar oxide]

my issue is nerfing the rates for non-afk salvaging

[winter prism]

comparing sailing to fucking woodcutting where point of that is just to afk is stupid..

[burnt forge]

Its not the extractor thats the issue, its the fact that salvaging was nerfed at the same time

[glass basalt]

been using it for ages, its "brokenness" is blown out of proportion

[austere mulch]

How involved is the extractor expected to be in the 30-40 here (genuine question)?

[meager flame]

yeah i always salvaged to 99 myself unless cleaning then i set my second crewmate on it

and i would average like 115-120k over a whole day

[flint willow]

Where they gonna put it ? Agility 🤡

[fringe rivet]

I am still going to want the Extractor right next to my salvage hook, and that I do not like

[meager flame]

but i've just been hard afking it post 99

[digital falcon]

ngl most of this would blow over if they reverted the salvage changes is what I'm gathering from here

[flint willow]

Salvaging was the way

[copper adder]

I don't know if I'm rusty but I can't for the life of me get 1.5t salvaging to work right now. Did switching the cycle from 4t to 5t mess it up?

[lone remnant]

yeah with my numbers i was always doing stuff on the side too. so like half eff on extractor and some times where i would afk until i log out so i could start with a full cargo

[floral blaze]

Chat is this a W or L update

[frail bough]

Always W

[umbral wind]

But you see, they want you to interact with the other content (that isn't fleshed out yet and probably won't be for 6 months)

[meager flame]

i kinda think they should just give back some of what they nerfed but not all of it

[fringe rivet]

It's a mixed bag

[frail bough]

if we dont get updates, its an L

[meager flame]

seems like nerf was probably okay but idk about a giga nerf

[digital falcon]

I'm not bothered one way, I'm 98 sailing via trials but I truly want to kill myself doing them

[plucky drift]

Charging while the boat is moving still makes it compulsory for activities that move the boat.

[glass basalt]

the salvaging and extractor part is a huge L
rest is mostly W's

[digital falcon]

so it's like whatever

[nocturne solstice]

I think it has its ups and downs. Nerfs suck of course but im enjoying the increased double salvage spots and the crews remembering what they were doing on logout.

Will be trying out the delivery tasks too, heard they're 240k/hr? I dunno

[digital falcon]

but everyone crying and bitching isj legit just the surprise update to salvage

[thick beacon]

ye im exicted to have double mercy spot

[fringe rivet]

Not if you're doing the active activity. You're compelled to trim sails, and the extractor is a boost to that

[plucky drift]

Mostly W but extractor xp is still too high

[glass basalt]

but do we need more then 1 double spot per type?
not counting the one that didnt have a double spot previously ofc

[nocturne solstice]

Yes

[lunar hawk]

Massive Falador to our world 488/486 we pay we say over 200 ppl here

[bronze kernel]

Just make all spots double spots and call it a night

[lone remnant]

you're so cringe bro. The dev is here trying to have a dialogue with you and all you can do is bitch and moan

[lunar hawk]

Plz don’t use profanity

[glass basalt]

actually, to make up for this update give us a merchant tripple spot XD

[plucky drift]

Not what im saying. If the goal is to make it not compulsory, it functioning while moving only changes that for salvage. It would still be for any activity that is sailing the boat

[nocturne solstice]

From my experience the salvage wrecks "move" between spots. So previously everyone would camp at the double then end up waiting forever cause no one else is at the other single spots. Now everyone benefits.

[graceful agate]

with a rosewood hull and good planning, some of the delivery routes can go absolutely nyoom ^^

[nocturne solstice]

tfw still on ironwood tier

[austere mulch]

Be better if they could just capture the data on already played ours on a character level. To the point where they could be like “cool, this player salvaged in this way and got this many salvages/cleans/extractors. if we adjust the xp values by this amount, then we will know exactly what the difference is”

[bronze kernel]

I feel like the task board could be adjusted

[fringe rivet]

Yes, that's the point. Salvage is supposed to be a low-effort, mostly afk activity

[glass basalt]

they do hop, but that is why people have alts at the other spots to keep them moving

[plush plover]

me still waiting on gathering enough dragon materials 😂

[lunar hawk]

He ain’t a delvoper he’s a messenger

[plucky drift]

Ok but crystal extractor shouldnt be compulsory at all not just for salvage.

[nocturne solstice]

Bruh i aint making and training multiple accounts and paying for multiple memberships to afk salvage lmao

Respect for the dudes that do but damn

[lone remnant]

and you aint a stock trader but youre still larping as one

[nocturne solstice]

Im glad the update means I dont gotta do that

[bronze kernel]

Have a separate page for bounty tasks and one for courier tasks. With courier tasks having a guaranteed number of AB tasks and ABA tasks each.

[lunar hawk]

That’s what u think, I do lot of 0dte options

[glass basalt]

oh same lord no, but allot of people have membered up alts and you only need 1 per spot to keep them moving at max rate

[winter prism]

skill was somehow dynamic..with methods and they were competitive in a way.. now its just pain 😄

[austere mulch]

A reason* amongst others

[thick beacon]

that goes against what the blog was saying no?

[frail bough]

no

[fringe rivet]

It's designed to generate motes, that's it's point

[plucky drift]

So we agree it doesnt need xp

And that moving doesnt matter

[nocturne solstice]

Id nerf it to the same xp as trimming sails and buff everything else.

[umbral wind]

It's literally not compulsory ever, you could just not build one tbf

If you feel it's 'compulsory' then why wouldn't you feel that tick manip is 'compulsory' or doing maximum sweaty trials with trimming is 'compulsory'

I never understand this 'compulsory' where is the cutoff, literally nothing is compulsory in this game, other than an internet connection and functioning computer to log in

[austere mulch]

Beleive it or not, there can be more than one reason why any number of 100k+ individuals might enjoy one thing more than something else

[knotty torrent]

Ppl actually being mad at a mod that is doing his job in here is nuts... And goblin is actually doing a great job

[frail bough]

nobody actively training mining at stars is not actively training at stars, your example makes no sense

[austere mulch]

I know this may be hard to understand

But it’s true

[broken kiln]

I don't understand why they nerfed the sorting xp, considering that is the part where you are actually clicking your cargo hold and then your salvage station so therefore not as afk.

[bronze kernel]

Crystal Extractor XP bonus definitely cooked rates

[dire mango]

Best we can do is adjust xp, success rates, cremate salvaging frequency, sorting xp and extractor xp. GL

[lunar hawk]

Another riot location port sarin world 488 has just opened up

[fringe rivet]

Yea that is a little weird

[lone remnant]

they just dont realize how lucky they are to actually have people communicate with the community and take feedback into account lol

[plucky drift]

Its crazy that you say this because it provides an increase in xp similar to tick manip but its about 1% of the effort.

[meager flame]

i just dunno why they decided to like

[nocturne solstice]

Probably because it was "triple dipping" on xp. 2 dudes salvaging xp + sorting xp which was like 100+ at merchants per salvage

[sterile terrace]

The udapte and the nerf of the salvaging xp rates was necessary so that ironman does not have to go beyond lvl 99 salvaging to get their two dragon cannon 🤡

[meager flame]

come at everything with salvage

lmao

[burnt forge]

Where was the crystal extractor xp redistributed because it sure as shit wasn't salvaging

[meager flame]

like actually everything

[soft pawn]

Where the sailing glazers at LMFAO. ur crap skill just got crappier!

[meager flame]

the rate you salvage the rate your crewmates salvage the exp

the sorting exp

[fringe rivet]

Honestly it feels like the original extractor xp was supposed to be 60. Going from getting 40 xp trimming sails to getting 600xp for doing effectively the same thing was weeeeeird

[toxic totem]

Already got both mine pre 92, sounds like skill issue

[umbral wind]

My point isn't whether it's op or not, just that it's not 'Compulsory'

[sterile terrace]

😂

[frail bough]

not only does it not make sense, sailing is literally easier to just start doing because there are no requirements of finding where the boats are, unlike stars

[plush plover]

a tiny slither of it went into deliveroo

[nocturne solstice]

The delivery tasks and salvaging itself not sorting got a buff. The 5t nerf might've made that not as impactful though...

[plucky drift]

Tick manipulation is a rewadd for actual skill based activities though. I consider that different than zero effort free xp after building it.

[knotty torrent]

he could simply be looking at the messages and waiting for the dust to settle.. instead of that he is right here trying to adress some valid points..

[fringe rivet]

tick manipulation is dumb and not intuitive gameplay

[plucky drift]

Its low opportunity cost, easy and early to unlock, and requiees zero effort

[glass basalt]

the thing with the extractor is, yeah the exp rates might be a tad high sure
but its been here long enough for people to be lvl 99..and then some
and it costed quite a bit to even install it and you cant move it/get your materials back

atleats give people the option to move it to another ship/another location and add exp to other activities like cleaning salvage (rather then removing it)

[sturdy wolf]

i mean, you had to go JUST on rate for the 1 cannon with going from 87-99 and that was ALREADY when we thought that the rate for cannon was 1/12k lmao. it was then updated to be 1/18k with more data and confirmed today to be 1/20k .... pretty sure you are going to do STILL now way past 99 for even 1 cannon and tons of past for 2 cannons...

[broken kiln]

They mentioned about wanting to drive people to salvage themselves... so they should've just nuked the xp rate from crewmates and kept the personal rates similar (if not the same as what they were)

[austere mulch]

Sailing exists in its own instance. That alone is a reason why why some players enjoy anything else more than “sailing equivalent” activities. Shouldn’t be hard to understand

[cyan pewter]

nothing was redistributed, it was a nerf to afking sailing accross the entire board. from what im getting it seems like 60% nerf

[lone remnant]

we only have ourselves to blame for that emergent gameplay. we set the standard its not jagex's fault for sticking to it

[meager flame]

i also wonder how many hours this added to grinding for a dragon cannon barrel

since crew salvages slower now

[fringe rivet]

Jagex keeps trying to appeal to everyone

[frail bough]

its not hard to understand but you pointing this out is totally irrelevant to the original point

[nocturne solstice]

I think its fascinating emergent gameplay, something the players discovered themselves by taking advantage of how the game was made. Similar to bunnyhopping or rocketjumping from older shooters.

[plush plover]

i think back in the day was also considered bug abuse as it was unintended gameplay but not 100% sure, now days its just meta efficency

[winter prism]

tick manipulation should be removed from the game.. it ruins your physical and mental health

[sterile terrace]

Ironman in shamble

[fathom flame]

the salvage meta going from salvage -> clean to salvage -> drop on this newest update is really lame tbh

[austere mulch]

Your question was asking why people enjoy might star mining more than salvaging despite exp differences

[lone remnant]

the meta is whatever you decide my guy

[fringe rivet]

But having to bring herb tar materials to fishing doesn't make sense

[woven phoenix]

Infinite since they basically told us to drop salvage instead of sort it

[meager flame]

yeah i mean honestly whoever made the rate on the barrel just hates ironmen

[soft pawn]

Good skill is good yes

[meager flame]

at 1 in 20k that means they fully expected you to stop all content at 87

and go past 99

[sturdy wolf]

ironmen are actually eating absolute shit rn and before with all of the dragon upgrades to ships lmao. they are gonna have a reaaaaalll good time grinding that stuff out...

[meager flame]

to get them

[plucky drift]

Fair as far as use of the word. I stand by it shouldnt have any xp attached to it but i guess compulsory is a strong word. Its just easier to say than extremely low opportunity cost and low effort for a reward that is absolutley unprecidented for an xp boosting item

[meager flame]

which is like

idk man thats not fun for anyone

[shrewd pewter]

Crew salvage for full XP now?

[nocturne solstice]

Why not? If it works it works.

[austere mulch]

Another thing on the blog, why do they call it “Self Sort” when that’s the only option lol

[lone remnant]

I mean, as it stands right now, whats the actual point of ironmen grinding out anything and not just getting 99 and dropping the skill completely? thats what Im going to do. Sailing is self contained as it is right now, so really whats the point lol

[ivory obsidian]

Nope, at merchant you get 200, crew at deck4 140xp

[fringe rivet]

That's not intuitive at all. Bunnyhopping you might learn just by playing the game, but manipulating ticks by beating off your herbs? what the hell?

[austere mulch]

It’s not like crew sort exists as an option.

[frail bough]

yes and at the end of the day its more afk and more xp per hour

stars being on the land and boats being in the water dont matter for the complaints that have been given

[minor whale]

There's a lot of tick manip methods that you can learn intuitively while playing, then figuring out others that works is natural progression of the game

[fervent igloo]

they're already talking about mixing sailing into a raid, the day will come we have to get that shit

[umbral wind]

Tbh feels to me like they're happy just leaving it artificially scarce while there is no content of note to actually use it on (outside of dragon nails for trials I guess but that's not the worst to get just for a skiff)

Who cares if it takes 6months of casual grinding to get dragon cannons, maybe by then there will actually be a sailing boss to use them on

Or don't grind them now and wait for eventual buff to drop rates

[minor whale]

Like cut-eat or barblore

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think anyone learned bunnyhopping by just playing the game. They did it with practice.

Same with tick manip, you figure out a gimmick you can take advantage of and practice.

[fringe rivet]

Mostly in combat

[austere mulch]

A reason was provided as to why some people have expressed enjoyment in one skill relative to sailing. Idk what else to tell you man

[lone remnant]

yeah in 2027

[minor whale]

Are both reasonable for people to discover on their own

[lone remnant]

we have time its ok

[minor whale]

Like, all the tick manip methods were discovered by players

So that argument of "people wouldn't figure it out" doesn't really hold water