game-update

[idle rapids]

They'd have to buy the accounts, buy a bond, and get them going and hope to turn a profit before getting banned

That is infinitely more barrier to entry than just "make an account" which can be done in 5 milliseconds via scripting

Members bots are a problem you can actually address unlike F2P

[tacit wharf]

all they did was convert back the members worlds they converted from f2p worlds because the f2p worlds were too full

[minor whale]

If you're gonna ignore their own news post saying they're converting worlds back to f2p that they lost, I don't really know what to tell you. Not every f2p player is a suicide bot and saying "get fucked f2p players" is just shitty lol

[idle rapids]

Real players can still play it only interferes with bot farms

If they click play now a few times they'll get in

Literally no one from the f2p community has complained about this

[tacit wharf]

maybe because not everyone desides to go onto a social media platform and complain about it, or that yr part of the platform that they complain on

[idle rapids]

Yeah I think if someone can't even click play now 2 times this isn't a game they'll be sticking with anyways

[chrome lantern]

Nobody that is getting turned away is going to be part of those dedicated communities; Grid Master is an advertised event outside just OSRS and if new players can’t even login they’re very likely to turn away without ever trying it. Also Jagex proactively converted the worlds so why would people complain before it was a critical issue

[idle rapids]

They could just make the f2p worlds limit 2k again but obviously they did it in the first place cause of suicide bots

Converting members world to f2p effectively decreases the total amount of people that can play the game in general

Since they are run at half capacity

[minor whale]

This is just objectively incorrect lmao

Saying it's not affecting real players is delusional
If you're a real player clicking play now over and over is not a good look for the game lol

Especially when it was only like that because they removed f2p worlds

This isn't like uh-oh game is full
They took away things from a group of players that is negatively affecting them and then decided that was bad and changed it

You might be the only person complaining about this in the world

[idle rapids]

Its like that because f2p worlds have half capacity, the post you're linking even says as much

And youre missing the point of why jagex did so in the first place

[minor whale]

Yes, and they removed worlds from f2p and figured out that was stupid and reverted it

This is just going around in circles lmao
They didn't add extra f2p worlds like they did for mems

[idle rapids]

They reverted it because some bot owners made a couple reddit posts

lmao

Not a big deal

[minor whale]

Yeah man it's definitely bot owners you've solved the whole issue

[idle rapids]

Its stupid to add more worlds that are half capacity tho

Keep the members worlds and make the f2p ones full capacity

[minor whale]

The map is tiny as shit in f2p

Adding 1k more people to it doesn't alleviate the issue for players

Spreading them out does

Do you think having 1 single mems world with a 200k capacity would solve issues for people lmao

[idle rapids]

That would be fine if they rework some stuff, they've already done as much with forestry

It doesn't feel great to fight over resources at any player count

[minor whale]

So maybe if it doesn't feel great to fight over resources they could maybe make sure the worlds aren't full by taking away those worlds from players to cram more of them in fewer worlds
Instead of reworking multiple skills and monsters

[idle rapids]

They're just gonna be competing with more bot farms now

But w/e

[tacit wharf]

save yr breath pyro

[kind surge]

about 70% of the worlds are sitting at sub 700 playercount, half are ~500 and under

this is just not an issue, it's fine that they move some members worlds to f2p

[idle rapids]

its not actively causing an issue just allows more suicide bots in general, guess we'll see if the f2p worlds get full up again

[chrome lantern]

Wouldn’t it make more sense to get worlds away from the bot farms that affect members’ items anyway

[idle rapids]

Those bots are easier to address, unless a bot owner can run long enough without getting banned to profit, they won't do it

People only do something when there's a profit involved

[kind surge]

bro lol

have you ever done vorkath

[idle rapids]

And there's no investment to run bot farms on f2p

[kind surge]

you will always see bots farming it with 4k+ kc and nothing else

[idle rapids]

Yep I have the pet

[idle rapids]

How do you know they are bots and not gold farmers? You seeing those means nothing tbh

[kind surge]

and not even considering the wildy

[idle rapids]

If they are farming gold manually they haven't broken any rules

[chrome lantern]

F2p bot farms also have much less impact, what are they affecting, yew logs?

[idle rapids]

If it was just guaranteed profit to runa bot farm you'd see the game at 1m+ player count lol

[chrome lantern]

Clay?

[kind surge]

they're devaluing the regular rune essence market....

[idle rapids]

2822 items but yea its not the end of the world

Have you guys finished GM yet

[minor whale]

"More" bot farms is incorrect
They removed worlds Wednesday and are reverting them back. It's at absolute worst equal to before they removed them lol

[chrome lantern]

The three most profitable f2p moneymakers are shophopping selling, smithing rune, and casting Bones to Bananas according to the osrs wiki

One of those requires 99 smithing

[idle rapids]

Okay you're correct but are we really turning this into a semantic discussion

I meant more compared to yesterday

[minor whale]

When you're literally wrong, yes

[idle rapids]

Just depends which perspective of timeframe you're thinking

[minor whale]

Whichever way you want to frame it so you're correct in your mind, feel free

[chrome lantern]

The timeframe of “since the most recent game update” makes sense especially considering it was literally 2 days ago that those worlds were f2p

[minor whale]

They also got rid of a bunch of f2p worlds a few months back
The issue is every f2p world was full so they reverted these 5 or so worlds back

[idle rapids]

I don't keep track of every single change all I knew is there was less

[idle rapids]

When you run 1,000 accounts at once they could be making 100k and that's 100m per hour

Most of them are making 6 figures

[narrow folio]

The main point is lack of worlds was making everyones experiences worse. This shouldnt be gatekept because "more bot farms,"

[chrome lantern]

Ah yes, every single world is run by 1 bot owner each, of course, no real players

Yeah real baseline statement though

[idle rapids]

okay you tell me how many accts theyre running

[chrome lantern]

If bots were filling every single available nook and cranny

Why aren’t these worlds all capped out already

[minor whale]

We should restrict Vorkath to only 5 worlds so those evil bots are the only ones affected

[chrome lantern]

It’s so easy right

Just make 5k new bots

[minor whale]

ToA too

[chrome lantern]

Per bot owner

[minor whale]

It's easy to win an argument when you make up all the numbers and declare yourself the winner

[idle rapids]

#game-update message

[round lintel]

what is this Yama and its dossier ?

29/29

and none of these damn contracts help with the tile

[tacit wharf]

if no unique, its always a dossier

[chrome lantern]

You can do Familiar Acquisition for 1/100 pet chance

[round lintel]

Got chest at 49

Finished board yesterday

[idle rapids]

Anyone have a stack of chairs? Can't get them anymore lol

[chrome lantern]

Why even fix something like that T.T

[sacred skiff]

Fun detected change

[minor whale]

Being able to spawn a bunch of NPCs is not good for server stability

Probably a safeguard to prevent a coordinated effort from people if they tried

[fathom acorn]

Are the Gridmaster pets not going to be linked with like Leagues accounts?
Got Butch pet a 3KC and I really don't wanna lose him 😭

[tacit wharf]

they said they dont have plans to, no

[chrome lantern]

I would expect them to be linked to other community events if anything

But very possible just not at all

[austere mulch]

Grid is just a mini league anyways, might as well link

[meager flame]

ya idk why its not just all considered the same thing

no idea why community events leagues and dmm all need to use a different reward currency instead of it just being a unified event currency and shop

i guess they just really really want to make people feel some fomo

even though for the past like

few years the cosmetic rewards are so bad that honestly i get far more points than i can spend on something that actually looks nice

they definitely need to put a little more effort into the cosmetics i think

like our current event pretty much has one item you'd want which is the login screen thing

and im kinda surprised they didn't make that your house exit portal

instead of a chapel upgrade

[zealous matrix]

Easier to balance rewards if you dont have to also balance those rewards around all previous rewards

No need to assume malice where there exists a perfectly reasonable explanation that requires fewer assumptions

[nocturne solstice]

I dunno how youd call the rewards of all things fomo when you can buy the rewards off the GE. That's like the opposite of fomo.

If you're specifically talking about irons then that kinda goes back to the ole "You signed up for this" thing.

[hasty shard]

have you tried buying leagues stuff off of ge though

[nocturne solstice]

I bought my elite void kit off the GE

its expensive but im not gunna detract from someone else's profit just for my own benefit

especially when i can just do it too

[hasty shard]

i mean the items that arent the one everyone buys

[sharp cave]

What part of ironman invokes fomo besides this crappy rewards system?

[nocturne solstice]

Getting raid loot splits for starters

[sharp cave]

Not fomo

Its not like raid drops are going away for irons in 3 weeks time so I have to do raids now or I'll never get drops

The only thing you can argue against it being fomo is there will always be another dead man or league next year... until there isnt... (like this year)

[nocturne solstice]

If we're talking about missing out on rewards for limited time events then yeah the limited time event items are the only thing they miss out on.

If we're talking about irons missing out on content because they are an iron then yeah there's plenty of examples which is the "you signed up for this" thing.

[sharp cave]

Idk if u can rly count any thing as missing out content wise besides maybe pk loot

[nocturne solstice]

If you are unable to do X id say you're missing out on content but im not gunna try to convince you to think my way or anything

[sharp cave]

Unable to x in what way? You wouldn't say that im missing out on inferno because I lack the skill on a main?

[nocturne solstice]

I thought it was clear that this was about stuff you cant do because you're an iron and not a skill issue no?

[sharp cave]

But what cant is do as an iron vs a main???

[nocturne solstice]

GiM cant raid with other people without losing prestige
Ironman cant get raid splits unless they goof around with a main
Ironman cant pk loot unless they goof around with a main
Then there's obviously the GE of course
Cant use other people's PoH for teleports and prayer training

There's probably more tbh

[sharp cave]

These are things that come with the solo aspect of the game mode

Making the league rewards spilt across 20 different point systems is not

[nocturne solstice]

What do you mean split across 20 different point systems? Leagues just have the one?

[sharp cave]

If there isnt another dead man cos thry decide to retire it then thats completely lost to irons

Ok theres 3.. u caught me exaggerating...

There's however no guarantee the next gridmaster type event doesn't have unique points

[nocturne solstice]

There's no guarantee it will either. So it's just catastrophizing over the unknown.

[ember token]

they said community events will all use the same points

[nocturne solstice]

there you go

[ember token]

if they ever decide to permanently retire leagues or dmm or community events then they'll most likely introduce a new way to get the rewards

[meager flame]

i mean i honestly cant really come up with a good reason to not use the same points for all of them to begin with but thats likely what would happen if they retired anything

they already tune the cost of items to the points that you can obtain from the actual event it comes from but league to league its not consistent or the same

but they're all on the same shop

the only real reason to keep them separate otherwise is just to really force people into a dmm instead of a league or vice versa

they're likely worried that everyone would skip dmm or something like that and just use league points they save

i think thats kind of misguided though since that really just implies that dmm should be improved

[nocturne solstice]

I really dont think its an improvement issue. PVP just isn't as popular as Leagues.

[meager flame]

sounds like an improvement issue to me

[winged mantle]

Do you think an iron account that has never played leagues or dmm should have access to either shop by playing gridmaster?

[meager flame]

yeah sure

its not like any of the events are like

difficult or prestigious or anything

they're just super accelerated modes with insane buffs so people can do things quickly

[winged mantle]

Is that not like doing tithe farm and expecting to use those same points for slayer?

[meager flame]

i think if you really wanted to go down that route

there should be a different reward system and shop for every league

[winged mantle]

Agree with this

But they haven't

It's nice for those that missed out but means nothing is limited

[meager flame]

i dont fundamentally really believe they're all that different to begin with though

[hasty shard]

i mean
herb sack

[meager flame]

i think they're all the same type of event and jagex arbitrarily gives them different categories

[winged mantle]

I knew there was that case but went with the example anyway

Point being - you shouldn't be able to buy a reward on an iron for an event type you've never done. Mains have the ge 🤷🏼‍♀️

Incentive to play the next version of that event

If they don't make any more of it, let the items have some form of exclusivity

[meager flame]

they already push people to do the next event as is

just look at the league reward shop

they generally slowly make things cost more over time

so saving means less

and you need to play again

[winged mantle]

Yes and no

I have enough points saved to buy whatever I want in the next without playing

But will play because I love leagues

[meager flame]

same but the only reason i have points saved is because

they've done a really bad job of putting stuff i'd want to use on the reward shop

[winged mantle]

Mmm fair

I do think that you should be able to refund items you earned

Like the twisted horns are useless now because of the araxyte head

Bis

[meager flame]

generally though i think with a little bit of effort

especially for newer events

it would be pretty easy to just boil down reward costs to x points for y hours of an event

and have things generally balanced and playing nicely with each other

that way shorter events would probably have fewer total points but also cheaper shop items using the same currency

and it would really just be about playing in events and buying cool stuff

solves the need to continue making a certain category of event too

[winged mantle]

Good points

[sharp cave]

Yes absolutely, if you are going to argue that then why should irons be able to buy past league rewards they didn't participate in? The reason is because fomo sucks

[winged mantle]

I'm both for and against buying past rewards but only if you actually do the events

If they ever stop future events then that's a question for later on how people obtain them

I never did leagues 1 and it feels weird that I could buy the rewards for playing league 6

[sharp cave]

Surely the rank and trophies are enough to be league specific

[winged mantle]

It's a good question worth asking tho

Why even have points for different temp gamemode shops in the first place and if merged why even have points for different minigames in the maingame

[sharp cave]

As far as im concerned gridmaster is just a mini league

Idk why its being called a community event

The community had no input besides voting yes no on the rewards, which is the same in the case of a "normal league "

[frail bough]

because people have an idea of what they call a league and it doesnt really fit that description

id argue league should also be renamed to be more descriptive tbh

[winged mantle]

That's a subjective opinion. To me it felt nothing like a league. They even went out of their way to reiterate it's not leagues

[sharp cave]

Its felt like a league to me

[frail bough]

they explained they want league to be the 5000 task, region locked, pick your path

this is not that

[sharp cave]

The only difference is the amount of tasks and time frame to complete them

[winged mantle]

I've gotten dragon cup many times. It's progression and rewards during the gridmaster felt empty and unearnt

[sharp cave]

Arguing semantics on made up definitions of what is and isnt a league is pointless though

[winged mantle]

But just my onion

[winged mantle]

I think after leagues 3 they decided this

[frail bough]

not exactly pointless if it helps people understand what they are and are not doing for a particular event

[sharp cave]

And in exchange the amount of points on offer to earn is way lower

[frail bough]

yeah they also said it in one of the more recent videos when gm was teased

[winged mantle]

I have many bits of feedback to make future gridmasters better if they do them but at the end of the day I'm glad they tried something new. It's mainly a test for ingame clan bingo which is the main win

[frail bough]

but yeah there is definitely something weird feeling about the 'event points' or w/e, i think i prefer it that way but also i dont give a shit about fomo things so i agree with you that getting leagues rewards from something that isnt leagues feels very odd

[frail bough]

yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssss, this this this

[winged mantle]

I think it was also for the main casual audience to get them to try things

Seeing so many friends try cg or this or that for the first time and get a sense of overcoming

Very cash money

Downside of leagues is the casuals burnout before getting to the fun stuff 👀

[sharp cave]

In that case you shouldn't be able to buy them for gold

If buying them for gridmaster points is weird then gold should be even weirder

[frail bough]

yeah agreed

[chrome lantern]

Gridmaster felt more like leagues than leagues 4 or 5 to me tbh

It felt like Leagues 3 and I love it

Leagues 4 and 5 just felt like slop because region locking is played out after the first and a half time you do it

Like yeah there’s not that task abomination of a list though

But gameplay-wise it honestly felt like everything I’ve been missing about leagues since they decided that boring region-locking and combat-style-locking was the only way they’d ever do a leagues

[frail bough]

I was a big fan of total exploration.

I definitely think i prefer the shorter events and have them be more frequent possibly?

With a 7x7 board, making new boards has got to be a lot easier for the team and gives more variance.

I've liked basically every event they've done. I'm, at the very least, glad they are branching out with events and it isn't just leagues.

[meager flame]

i mean it was legitimately a league minus all of the time wasting

like almost the entire grid was reused league assets lol

they reallyyyyyyy tried to pretend it was different but if by different they meant they weren't going to waste my time by asking me to do a bunch of really boring steps that they were digging deep to even think of then sure it was different

but ultimately i had the same or extremely similar bonuses items etc doing the same type of end game a league has

if anything it kind of put on blast how much bad content exists in normal leagues

apparently we can get all of the fun stuff in 2 days rather than 2 weeks

[frail bough]

i think the biggest thing for me is not having a gazillion points in clue shit

even with clue relic things its just always been too much

[meager flame]

its not just that there is more that leagues do like

they have a ton of throw away tasks and stuff that we all did but im not sure i can say it was fun

like do i enjoy runecrafting during a league or killing sire or doing a million and one low level activities just to check off that i've been there

honestly probably not

the grid just skipped all of that and gave you fewer but more meaningful goals and sort of just cuts straight to the big power upgrades and doing some interesting bosses or figuring out a path through your varied objectives

without stopping you and having you step by step do most of the content in the game at least once that you probably weren't really interested in to begin with

[sharp cave]

The grid is failing to keep me engaged though, it feels rather meaningless to do any content since you are so powerful and theres no real tasks to speak of

Not to say it hasn't been fun, but its been a really quick blast of fun thats worn off fast

I feel like reducing everything including bosses to what amounts to killing normal mobs isnt fun for very long

[minor whale]

Day 1 was a blast
Day 2 already bored
I felt the same way with leagues 5
You got too strong too fast and it made everything super boring to do because everything became afk even if you wanted it to be harder

[obsidian venture]

Didn't bother playing it when I heard Faux completed it in under 24 hrs

And it's a month long 😭

[minor whale]

I think EVscape managed to complete the board in like 10 hours

[idle rapids]

EVscape did 11 hours, some1 on reddit got 10.5 hours

https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1oaifex/full_grid_completion_in_10hr_23min/

reddit dude is keeping secret strats for now tho lol

[restive siren]

faux did 10hr 21min and streamed it i believe

[hasty shard]

honestly pretty cool that gridmaster is like a 10h speedrun

finally a reasonable osrs speedrun category 😭

[meager flame]

tbh i think its fine that its that fast

personally i don't really like grinding for anything that doesn't last some length of time so the faster a league is to get to the point the better to me

if i wanted to actually work on something over time to then benefit from it i'd play the main game where it actually counts and stays

[final frigate]

for most people it'll be a week+ run so it's fine imo

if you play 2h a day which is not a small amount that's still only 14 hours in a week

wouldn't be surprised if people take 20 or 30+ hours to complete grid playing normally

[icy relic]

I had a lot of fun going full throttle solo HMT and colo

5:50 colo run

[meager flame]

oh yeah like i spent a bunch of extra time on the grid because i just didn't setup the slayer/agility skip since i didnt really plan very much

if i reran it i would probably finish twice as fast

[icy relic]

Same

92 agi rush gives you a ton of lamps too

[meager flame]

ya i would basically link agility to thieving and then agi tile to 93 slayer more or less

and that would basically be almost the entire grind over

[icy relic]

Yup

I was playing with the leagues mentality

Didn't really plan out the grids

Ended up having to run a couple hours of sepulchre

Phenomenal power fantasy though

All combat masteries and T7s

[dire mural]

I've played every leagues and generally enjoyed most of them and maxed most of them, 2 of my rl friends who have both played rs for like 20 years like me one of them usually plays leagues and competes with me, one of them never plays it because its one big taskscape, which is true

I enjoyed gridmaster, I'm still not entirely done because I haven't been able to play a lot and there's some of the bosses which I have never done before like doom and yama (which i usually use leagues to learn boss mechanics of bosses that I haven't fought before)

Pros:
-Less tasks (maybe too few)
-Not forced to choose between some of the great relics/perks
-Not region locked
-No clues

Cons:
-Maybe too few tasks (10x10 board maybe better)
-Very quick for most people, I find it kind of pointless to train any skills past what's necessary
-Too little skill checks

Though I guess the 2k total skill check is one big skill check in one place

It was a good test run and I'd like to see them work on it and bring it back in the future

[analog crow]

Region locking and having to choose between perks is one of the things I enjoyed a lot about raging echoes. Just make sure there are no troll relics that are clearly weaker than the others…

If they made a 9x9 board they could lock unlocks behind 3x3 blocks (like sudoku) and that might be a good way to implement region locking in gridmaster.

[meager flame]

i sort of think region locking is one of those things that's actually only cool for a limited period of time

like

if you haven't ever played with the concept then its very interesting working out how you can do things and what order to do them in

unfortunately despite jagex releasing kind of a lot of content they don't release enough content at anywhere near the pace to keep the idea fresh for people doing it over and over

so you end up generally knowing everything already about the regions you might select and its no longer interesting

at that point its just a big restriction that stops you from doing things you might choose to do otherwise but you aren't like discovering anything new or maybe experiencing the game in a way you didn't before

tldr the basic idea of region locking is pretty beat and if they want to use that concept more they should probably break away from the regions we know and divide the map up in another way

[meager flame]

like maybe if they make enough sailing content they could do island/port only for a league or something by the time we get to the next real league and that would be interesting because it would be different enough

[round lintel]

I think in Grid Master solo scaling is bugged, there is no way I did 1+3s and didnt get a single purple in 5kc in 2 different accts

Cox*

145k points per raid CM

[torpid delta]

part of it i think is how being made absurdly powerful just kinda negates any challenge of actually being region locked past the very very early game

like twisted, for all its issues, actually made the region lock feel meaningful because you were actually scrambling to try and get things done with garbage for gear and methods

but every variation of trailblazer has just been "you have 800 dps and are unkillable, pick 3 regions whose bosses you want to thrash" and unless you intentionally griefed yourself it doesn't actually matter at all what you pick

i yearn for any kind of league to give me the same hyped feeling as when i pulled a shitty dragon hasta from the brimstone chest and it was actually my best weapon

[austere mulch]

Allow prestige and/or reset at the cost of a bond (or free, but revenue)

Instead of needing to make a new acc

1 free prestige after completion. Bond for mid-resets or additional prestige

Whatever doesn’t require extra accs Ty

[worldly valve]

you can just go play some scuffed ironman to be honest...idk if leagues should have that kind of gameplay

[torpid delta]

i really need to be more concise when saying stuff so people can't pick out one line and miss the point, one day i'll learn

[minor whale]

The third one was cool when you pulled a dlong from a soul wars crate and had an amazing weapon super early, but that was within the first couple hours of gameplay and never was matched

Every other temp gamemode since has just been faster and faster and less and less effort

Leagues 5 was the first one I didn't go for all relics because I completed basically all pvm before even having the last relic choices and it felt pointless

When you go into every situation without the possibility of dying or losing and progress it feels meaningless to play

And all that's left is...skilling

Oh boy

They need to mega tone down how quickly you scale your combat prowess

[nocturne solstice]

Leagues last like 3 months so stretching out content could definitely help with making "mid" tier upgrades feel a lot more meaningful. I think the biggest culprits are echo weapons and guaranteed mega drops at raids from relics.

A few other relics like "Last stand" are probs way too OP as well. Would be best kept as a final tier unlock which it was for leagues but gridmaster? way too easy.

[patent ibex]

I'd rather see some sort of prestige system. Once you've unlocked it all, reset to gain a prestige point (and keep your total points) if you want to, and restart – allowing for different choices, regions, and so on. Without making the more casual experience harder or slower.

[nocturne solstice]

That does sound quite nice too

[minor whale]

That could be fun, to be able to always be in the "raid with people and get upgrades" phase

[dire mural]

I agree region locking is one of the fun aspects of leagues which is why its kinda hard to compare leagues and gridmaster they are different
A prestige would actually be a cool idea

[chrome lantern]

Region locking was played out two leagues ago

I miss leagues 3

[dire mural]

I like regions in leagues but im glad it wasnt in gridmaster if that makes sense

[chrome lantern]

I loved leagues 2, but leagues 4/5 had good improvements but their foundational content was really repetitive and boring even with entirely overhauled task lists

[dire mural]

But i think it is getting old, it could be reworked, i kept thinking for a while you could eventually unlock all regions, if that could be done

[chrome lantern]

Plus irreversible decisions on what stuff you can do with your friends or not and combat style locking

[dire mural]

Yeah

[chrome lantern]

I hated leagues 4 and 5 and despite getting dragon in leagues 2/3 I stopped at the minimum for rune just for ironman rewards pts

[dire mural]

I liked 2 3 and 5 i believe it was, i get the a bit confused in memory

[chrome lantern]

Don't get me wrong

Some stuff was done well like echoes were neat and combat masteries were an improvement over previous combat relics

But there were still all the inherent issues of just... repeating region and combat-style locking

Balance aside

[dire mural]

Yea agreed

[chrome lantern]

Like Ranged was the only style that didn't drastically punish you for trying to do stuff that was in your off-style, but that's just because they made 100% accuracy way too op lmao

[minor whale]

Legit the worst part of leagues is when you take multiple separate regions from your friends and are locked from doing that raid with them

Like I took Zeah/Varla/Mory as a ranger and didn't get to do juiced ToA with the gang

[nocturne solstice]

A final tier relic to unlock the map might be a good idea 🤔

maybe a t9 could be unlock map and let you respec relics. t10 can be a prestige to restart if you want

[winged mantle]

If they do the region lock I'd love to see a whole map unlock and the regions locked behind each tier. More tiers is better

[chrome lantern]

Yeah

Would be a compromise but I much prefer leagues-3 style but actually make it nontrivial to unlock all the content

Or even cap how much you can ultimately unlock

But more choice than just a region

[winged mantle]

Leagues 3 was amazing but they screwed with the points and also the rng behind unlocking each relic was ass

Otherwise it was one of my favourite leagues

[chrome lantern]

I think fragment unlocks could've been better but were overall just a kinda trivial annoyance

In the long run

Leagues 3 but with Grid tasks for fragments 👀

Tier still tied to fragment slots

[winged mantle]

Shattered grids

[pale drift]

Gridmaster seems a bit buggy for me with Hespori - got 3x bottomless bucket drop but it didn't actually get received; nothing in invent or in loot tracker and the collection log says 2/4 but only 3 items are listed in it so I didn't get the drop

False drop announcement 🙁

[meager flame]

maybe try making sure you have the inventory space to get 3 of them if they didn't appear on the ground

otherwise yeah idk where they would've gone

[pale drift]

I had 5 empty invent spaces so yeah no idea what happened lol

[meager flame]

rip

[median wing]

good friends

what is update tomorrow

[ember token]

probably very little

[restive sapphire]

Gridmaster fix after half the griddies are already done

[scenic ibex]

Saw this

[median wing]

im glad that i can purchase it all

[sacred skiff]

Oh dang the rewards are expensive then

ig I’ll be rebooting the gridmaster and spamming Khopesh through another inferno

For anyone who’s done it, is it worth grinding a few more tobs for a justi chest if my current armor is just legs + sunfire chest? Or should I be fine

[nocturne solstice]

id swap out the sunfire for barrows or something

[meager flame]

i stood in the middle of the inferno and almost didn't use the pillar at all

in like bandos and a guthan helm lol

for my sub 30 run

i wouldn't use khopesh though i'd use a tbow and something to aoe nibblers with

[bronze kernel]

Did they confirm they're making everything cheaper or increasing the points from the grid?

[sacred skiff]

Oh dang tbow beats even khopesh specs? Good to know that’s an option. Might just bring a 2 way bfury/anguish tbow/khopesh switch and see how fast I can do it

When I did it for my “kill a mager” run I killed Zuk while Jad was alive before the first set spawned lol so it should be OK

[scenic ibex]

They didn't say. Hopefully we will get better clarification in a few hours when the blog drops.

[idle rapids]

Yes

[obsidian whale]

Kopesh is 100% better. Barrage the nibs and just camp spec through to zuk

[frozen lion]

time to spend sub 1 mil for stuff people grinded for days

[hasty shard]

• Players can now pierce NPC melee prayers using the Ancient Mace and Dragon Sword specials, or Verac’s set effect (1/4 chance).
  i wonder if a veracs switch is meta for toa speeds now if there's invent space

[glad narwhal]

Anyone know if you can buy the gm rewards in ge main game? Sorry if it was answered already >.<

[nocturne solstice]

They already show up on the GE so im going with yes. They're available to purchase from the GM store in like, 40 minutes.

So wait till then if you plan on getting em from the shop or GE

[glad narwhal]

Ahh awesome thank you much appreciated 🤘

[nocturne solstice]

[idle seal]

any downtime?

[heavy ledge]

shouldnt be yoshi

[idle seal]

Pog

[heavy ledge]

"The spooky chair can no longer be used to body block NPCs." damn did i miss out on a portable safespot??

that plus having 27 of them like someone else mentioned wouldve been insane

[rich quiver]

how long is update

[mild fossil]

20 secs

its up alr

[hazy birch]

yoo sick ty

[mild fossil]

<3

[rich quiver]

tyvm

[hazy birch]

i thought id have to go to bed like a reasonable person

[frozen lion]

1 hour after points can be used and already bought altar for high alch price

[random bramble]

how do you build the torch?

I don't have the option in lamp space

[frozen lion]

tried incense?

[limber vessel]

anyone else having issues with fixed mode chat not hiding since update?

[tawdry pike]

me as well, seems update broke it

[frail bough]

Reload your client, this is a runelite thing

[lime haven]

When giving a text field in the new poll system typing "a" or "d" would also unintentional move the text cursor. On runelite

[torpid delta]

This is a known issue caused by RL's Key Remapping plugin - I'll be speaking with them about it after I'm done getting things sorted on our side

[knotty herald]

holy cow, moveable text cursors

[idle rapids]

I thought you could already pierce with verac? Isnt that why Nex WR has been like 5 seconds for a while now

[mortal imp]

I want achievement diary for varlamore region

[slate jay]

Guyssss let's talk about how whomp whomp these rewards are

[mortal imp]

we all knew the rewards like 2-3 months ago

were you expecting something different ?

[slate jay]

Expecting something better than a half arsed tabard and some crappy lookin altar 😂

Deadman style mage cape cosmetic woulda been better but stylized For grid

Weapon cosmetics

[last onyx]

Okay but the altar is fire, I just think it's a bit too small, and there should be an option for it to output fire instead of smoke

It's something I hope we could see with the Graphics update, but it def loses energy in the lighting of the POH we have today

[mortal imp]

is sailing coming out next month already ?

[round lintel]

I see the news post and I thought we had more tasks added

[mortal imp]

thats an external website

with the bonus task

[last onyx]

We don't know. We were told it's on track to release this year. I hope it's november as December would mean staff going on Holidays, esp risky if any bugs come out.

If it's november that's a bit close from reveal date to release but not unheard of either, part 3 varlamore was similiar.

[mortal imp]

I wouldnt mind if it was reschedule to 2026

[last onyx]

My thoughts exacly. It's a big endevour.

[round lintel]

They said they were going to give a release date last week

but it didnt happen

hopefully the just scrap the idea of adding saling :

🥲

[obsidian venture]

Still aiming for mid November iirc

[last onyx]

In the last sailing poll they stated they're on track with development and reveal the release date soon.

[analog crow]

The road test was fun, but won't you get into trouble referencing all those copyrighted properties in your game? 😮

[last onyx]

Uk copyright law + them not profiting out of these ip's

If they made money out of mentioning Star Wars then yes.

[analog crow]

mm I'll trust their lawyers looked at it

[knotty herald]

i mean you do need an active membership to answer it,

that's all i got

[half hearth]

PLEASE make the new poll system stop demanding my attention every time i log into the game. Soooo annoying.

[hard axle]

Always postpone if not ready

You often can’t take shit back

Jagex knows this

But doesn’t always listen

[near widget]

they said they wanted to add more stuff to varlamore before doing that, sadly.

i just dont know if that means 3-6 months after varla 3 launch or 3 years

I've kept bumping my suggestion for the reward from the diary hoping it releases sooner rather than later 😛

[ember token]

it'll happen at some point

[bronze kernel]

We were told about these rewards months ago.

Your fault not not speaking out against it earlier

[hard axle]

Even if he did, chances are Jagex wouldn’t have made more

[vivid ruin]

The rewards is exactly why i didnt xp waste lol

I knew ahead of time

[true talon]

Ya GM had not draw in compared to leagues for reward space

Just something youd do for fun or a distraction

I think it was cool concept, however the return for investment made me not bother

Just like DMM before they added cosmetics

[dusk surge]

Shame they didn’t add a reset mode to grid once completed .. bonding up multiple accounts for a day of playing seems pointless and a waste of money

[woeful hazel]

So is there any update for November or lol?

[kind surge]

[[sailing]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Sailing

[subtle merlin]

where to try out verac now....

ooo demonics....

[tawdry plaza]

what're you doing here seras

[subtle merlin]

the new update, they changed prayer pen attacks

[vivid ruin]

Kq

Feel like that's the only reason that change was added

[narrow folio]

It didnt do anything for kq

It's not a real prayer anyway so it did nothing lol

I doubt veracs penetration is any good anywhere with the poor dps

[ember token]

it was added because they polled it in poll 83 and it passed but they just never added it

[vivid ruin]

I just know that for some reason people use veracs at kq. Idk anywhere else that change is useful lol

[subtle merlin]

im going to try at demonics and tormented

dont think i will work at tormented as they have the damage shield

[vivid ruin]

Theyre like 750 hp too 😭

Id be interested to see that perk in action with pvp

[chrome lantern]

It already has worked in pvp

[vivid ruin]

Interesting

[narrow folio]

The shield just reduces dmg

Itll work but like...why

Bad damage, cant use slayer helm, relies on a proc chance

[subtle merlin]

afk ness of it

[vivid ruin]

Report back

[round lintel]

with this Grid Master infinite pots just made me realized I wish we had Flasks in Osrs like sometime before EoC

6 doses pots

[chrome lantern]

Afking demonic gorillas… except they’ll tear through your defense and you do only 1/4 of already bad dps

[subtle merlin]

i mena just having to watch for prayers already make them seem more enjoyable.

[sharp cave]

by design

[ember token]

yeah kinda funny they were like, "check out this cool community grid master challenge! just bond up another account to play it!"

[subtle merlin]

meanwhile im still struggling to get the CG ticked off...

[round lintel]

is the wiki down?

nvm

[subtle merlin]

its been having hiccups

[idle rapids]

You can buy a 1 day sub for $1

less than a soda or bag of chips cost these days

[dusk surge]

Never seen that before in 20 years of playing 🤷🏻‍♂️

[idle rapids]

Yep its pretty roundabout but works great for repeating the grid if thats something youre after

You just download rs3 mobile app and they let you buy 1 day sub for a dollar

[dusk surge]

I’ll have a look thank you!

[sullen knoll]

is jagex able to do anything about the deadman worlds and how the pvp system works? it unfairly benefits cheaters and spec dump rag pvp, and not actual NH 1v1 combat? maybe after you use a special attack there is a 20-30 second timer to teleport? aka using any special attack of anytype applies a 20-30 second tele block on your character similar to normal pvp worlds? dmm is in a bad spot atm cause of raggers ruining the game

(world 345) and seasonals please,

i know jagex has delayed deadman like 9 months now and its because rot clan keeps abusing the game mode, but they arent putting in proper counter measures to make the game mode fair,

singles pvp should be singles pvp and multi should be multi, quit trying to turn singles into mulit+ type garbage

[tacit wharf]

dmm hasnt been delayed at all, it has been listed as winter since runefest in march...

[sullen knoll]

it was originally a summer release

[tacit wharf]

no

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I've never heard of it being summer

[tacit wharf]

has always been in the winter spot after sailing

on the roadmap

[sullen knoll]

do research before you talk about things, i play dmm every day and follow it, youtube channel in bio

[ember token]

lol

[tacit wharf]

lol

[tacit wharf]

research done, yr incorrect

data with the assist

[sullen knoll]

lol its been delayed longer than that

[tacit wharf]

mmhmm

[sullen knoll]

it was originally supposed to be released june, then they pushed it back

[tacit wharf]

and everyone u fight in pvp is a clienter

[ember token]

its been so delayed that they delayed it before they even announced it

[chrome lantern]

If you have a source before that that announced a June date I'd love to see it

[sullen knoll]

cba to spend hours digging thru jmod streams, but original release date was june 2025. it isnt uncommon for jagex to delay stuff, project zanaris, you know sailing was supposed to be released 3 years ago lol but keeps getting delayed

[tacit wharf]

expected

[ember token]

sailing hadn't even started development 3 years ago

[chrome lantern]

When was sailing ever supposed to be released 3 years ago lmao

[tacit wharf]

comein tell someone they're wrong, shown proof, oh i dont have time

[ember token]

the sailing lock-in poll was like 2 years ago

[frail bough]

reading? no thank you sir!

[sullen knoll]

i would just @ a jmod to confirm but not going to annoy them

[tacit wharf]

#sailing-chat message

[ember token]

i think this person is just trolling and/or trying to advertise their youtube

[tacit wharf]

aluminoti has it saved

for the nay sayers

[sullen knoll]

i could care less about advertising youtube

i just want the combat system fixed

[sullen knoll]

all i use youtube for is to report cheaters

[thick beacon]

is it that bad really if they pushed it back in first place? they have been cooking this year with a insane amount of updates-dont think gridmaster was even revealed but they just did it because they are that extra

[sullen knoll]

yeah i agree lol im just complaining cause i like to complain sometimes

also its good to see you still alive

[sullen knoll]

your vimanas from we do raids or i forgot who you were but i remember the name

[thick beacon]

i know who ur talking about but im not him lol

[hard axle]

Clearly vinimas

[thick beacon]

is it vin or vim

[hard axle]

The other guy is viminas, your vinimas

[thick beacon]

going back to the topic ye totaly fair but i do think its uncalled for

[dusky scroll]

anyone else unable to use the default RS world hopper on RuneLite since gridmaster launch? anyone got a fix/known plugin messing it up?

[frail bough]

mines been fine

[chilly portal]

Gridmaster was one of those jmod idea things (cant for the life of me remember what its called)

[nocturne solstice]

game jam?

[green pewter]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Game_Jam_V_-_May_2024#Bingo

[true talon]

Sailing delayed? good

[meager flame]

im ngl

there is no way they delay sailing at this point lol

even though i honestly think they should so that people would actually have a reason to get 99 other than getting their max cape

i dont really the find the idea of them releasing another garbage skill with the vague outline of making it worthwhile one day super compelling

but i also don't think they needed to just give people all of the end game it would ever have immediately

i just think releasing without anything to go for is kind of lame

[icy relic]

Midgame content is the easiest to make after all

Least controversial and they get endlessly glazed for it

[idle rapids]

I'd like to see more content like ToA that can be fun to both newbies and experienced players

[icy relic]

Sure but they need to stop putting BiS gear behind stuff that takes nothing to farm

When d claws came out in RS2, WGS prerequisites was literally a quest cape

You had to do every single other quest in the game at the time of launch to do WGS

[nocturne solstice]

I definitely blame the drop rates. ToA hate wouldn't be so bad if they were tweaked earlier.

Something like no uniques from entry. Fang, ring, ward from normals and shadow + masori from expert mode onwards.

[icy relic]

Same shit with putting moka drops on 2/3/4 and just making them stupidly rare

[idle rapids]

The gear from TDs was never supposed to be BIS though, they messed up on burning claws

They pitched it as a midway point to d claws

[icy relic]

Means way too many of them are entering the game but not from the intended source of actually learning and mastering the fight

You missed the point

BiS gear used to be gatekept

Jagex used to expect you to skill and play the rest of the game before you even could attempt endgame boss fights

Now you do a midgame quest and you can start accessing BiS gear

[idle rapids]

When are we talking about exactly? Cause I remember in pre-eoc you'd go to dungeoneering (a place where people usually just leeched like people do in BA these days) and get the chaotic weapons there as your BIS

That doesnt seem very gatekept

[icy relic]

Yeah and that was one of the reasons it was universally seen as a mistake

[idle rapids]

I've never been a fan of that skill but I still see people ask for it

[icy relic]

Yeah DG was fun

Nobody asks for OG chaotics though and we've already gotten them back anyway

Just as different pieces of content

[idle rapids]

Ah gotcha

[icy relic]

Also leeching DG was incredibly expensive and created a lucrative market for people who were good at it

[idle rapids]

As is leeching BA, it just leads to more RWT

It's fine for BA since its just one tiny piece of content but a whole skill being leechable? Eh

I wouldn't want to be able to just hire another player to sail me around for xp when that skill comes out

Even if it requires skill or w/e

[icy relic]

I don't think that's something wr have to worry about at this point

Not like DG is going to come back as a skill anyway

[idle rapids]

Yeah deffo not

[icy relic]

Even if we do get it, it will be a minigame

[idle rapids]

I think itd make a decent minigame yea

Do you think gauntlet is a good analogue?

Or not quite because of missing some of the skills

[icy relic]

No, it's too scripted

[idle rapids]

Yea I did like it more on launch when it was more random

But I can see how thatd also be frustrating to speedrunners

[tacit wharf]

calling cg dungeoneering is like calling a monkey a human

[icy relic]

DG has a crazy number of rooms and puzzles and layouts basically covering every skill in the game

And in the old days you had to pick up keys to your invy as well so you have to keep tabs on where everything is

Took a lot of communication to get people moving to the right places of the map

[tacit wharf]

not only that but had to stratigically place yr teleports (had to duo it at a min) to manage doors you needed to open

[idle rapids]

theres some inv management in gauntlet too

[icy relic]

Yeh if you T2 prep

[idle rapids]

I don't know the meta I just go for T1 head/legs and T2 chest

[chrome lantern]

I wouldn't even say gatekept because deep Doom in particular is very accessible with low gear and just skill, and that's also reflective of like, 95% of content in the game. Slayer bosses are definitely gatekept by level but pretty much only like HMT and Yama have actual "required" gear

And Yama is a pretty accessible item

[icy relic]

That's what I said right

[chrome lantern]

I guess CM as well but again just like HMT

[icy relic]

DoM is not gatekept at all

[idle rapids]

Yea theres nothing I can think of with crazy reqs

[icy relic]

Everything drops too early

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I just don't think saying "gear used to be gatekept" is entirely accurate

Because that's pretty much just slayer bosses

[icy relic]

And as compensation the rates are never good even at deep delves

[chrome lantern]

I guess it depends on what you consider gatekeeping

I think a skill check is different from gatekeeping

"Gatekeeping" is a gear or stat requirement

That isn't trivial

[icy relic]

I think they were way more gatekept in RS2 relative to the state of the game because WGS required a QPC and every monster coming after it like Glacors required WGS + new GM quest

[chrome lantern]

Oh you mean like RS2

I did almost no pvm back then

[icy relic]

Aye

[idle rapids]

It would be interesting to see them try something like that

Definitely an effective anti botting measure

[icy relic]

RS2>3 Jagex was deathly afraid of people having social anxiety

So they killed off group bossing and DG

OSRS Jagex is deathly afraid of making people skill and play the rest of the game

[idle rapids]

The only time osrs has forced people into group content is ToB release though right?

These days you can just solo it anyways

[tacit wharf]

solo tob is one of, if not the hardest pvm content

[icy relic]

Solo ToB is still out of most people's wheelhouse

I should also clarify a bit, it's not that X content does not exist

[idle rapids]

Sometimes it feels like they have no good intentions, looking at wildy content, its designed to be done as early as possible and make you a ton of money

Clearly designed for bots

Or catering to ironmen without caring about the bots if thats much better

[icy relic]

The permanent splitting of the RS2/RS3 community basically took place when Jagex caved to the HLC and comp capers who just refused to do group bosses

Basically picture if OSRS had a comp cape but they excluded zuk helm from it

[tacit wharf]

?

[icy relic]

But its worse than that because nothing was remotely close to the difficulty of zuk helm at the time

[hard axle]

13/15 uniques were from non-deep delves btw

[tacit wharf]

rs2 was full of group bossing, the only divide was pvp vs pvm community

only reason stuff is so "soloable" is because people just got good

[idle rapids]

I do see a lot of complaints that you need to find a team to do perfect raids with for teh zuk helm, its not all a personal skill check, also a socialization check to a degree

[tacit wharf]

prime example, look at the release of cox and now

[icy relic]

But Jagex gradually stopped pushing people to do group bosses because compers cried about Last Boss

And then stopped making them for a long ass while and strangled Mazcab in the cradle

[tacit wharf]

the community as a whole, didnt want group bosses or pissed and moaned about group bosses

[idle rapids]

When I played RS2 end game content to me was getting a weapon that had a special attack

[icy relic]

Added sinkhole and dunghole to kill DG

[idle rapids]

We Do Raids existed back then tho

People took time out their lives just to teach others the raid so they dont need to watch a aguide

So I wouldn't say it was the entire community

[tacit wharf]

i still think one of the worst things that jagex did was not fix 1 tick flicking, solves soleablity for so many bosses

[tacit wharf]

i dont understand what yr saying, as i didnt give a specific time frame but an overall consensus toward group bossing

[icy relic]

It still exists in RS3 but nobody does it

Fingers needed elsewhere

[idle rapids]

Probably just a miscommunication, you said "the community as a whole" so I thought you meant everybody not just whatever majority I can't speak about the community as a whole back then all I experienced was super friendly people from WDR teaching me the group content

[icy relic]

I like 1T flicking a lot tbh, I think soloability should only be restricted by soft enrage mechanics

[narrow folio]

uhh so what boss do you NEED to 1t flick?

[idle rapids]

None

[narrow folio]

not talking about "lazy" flick

[tacit wharf]

no1 said u need to do anything

[winged mantle]

Awakened levi

[icy relic]

Fight gradually becomes unmanageable the longer you're in it

[narrow folio]

you dont 1t flick there

[winged mantle]

Is a joke

[idle rapids]

All Praise zebak definitely easier if you 1 tick flick though

[icy relic]

Don't need to 1T for that either

Lazy flicking is enough

[idle rapids]

You don't need to but it makes it a lot easier

[narrow folio]

personally love lazy flicking not 1t

[tacit wharf]

but, but 1 tick flicking makes it much easier to use less supplies, which lets you solo for longer, making it so u dont have to duo/group to do content

[icy relic]

I do 2T lazyflicking for just about everything

Click 3 times to maintain 1T flick for 2 ticks

Covers your attack and the overhead

[idle rapids]

Tbf, even without 1 tick flicking you could just use a supply running alt to get around that

Or deliveritems chat

[tacit wharf]

well gz jagex then, +1 membership

[narrow folio]

that chat isn't supposed to be for running you supplies to stay longer at a boss

[idle rapids]

I respect people who do multiboxing, adds to your APM so it takes more focus/skill

[icy relic]

I use my GIM quitters to spec transfer/heal other between vard kills

[tacit wharf]

i am judging you

for that

[icy relic]

We have the spiciest GWD runs

3 soulflame horns

[idle rapids]

I think this is an old rule

[narrow folio]

oh really

[idle rapids]

Yea check this out

Cause I thought the same thing but some1 corrected me recently lol

[narrow folio]

dang

[hasty shard]

not 1t flick ofc but i think the highest apm the game asks you to do is awakened vard captcha

which even then you can still fuck up and get the kc

[pulsar wren]

I just wanna say that I'm boycotting the polling test because of the poll creators take on pineapple on pizza, sorry. Otherwise the new polling stuff seems good.

[sacred oracle]

[still sundial]

I am already in falador with my cannon

[final frigate]

yeah i used to use it way back for offloading pvm drops and getting cash

at a beneficial rate for the runner ofc, like 30% off or w/e

wyvern safespot

[chrome lantern]

I never even saw a polling test what do people mean by this

[frail bough]

Wednesdays update

Its very good

[chrome lantern]

They haven’t done anything with it though?

[shadow wave]

They ran a fake poll in game featuring all the new tech

[chrome lantern]

I was online for 12 hours yesterday and never saw this

Oh apparently they don’t show up on grid worlds

[shadow wave]

Ah, that'll be why

[tough nacelle]

i guess what would be better, delve 7+8 dropping the boots at the same rate as 1-8 as a whole or are the drops too common?

Yama drops are so rare its unfun imo

and the boss should probably have more hp for duo

But I dont think delve offering uniques at lower delve levels is a bad thing

plus more common pet hits pet hunters so they dont nuke the prices of gear

[hard axle]

If pet is at 6, then the rest of it should be 6/7/8.

Call it unfun or whatever, but 2/3/4 is bad balancing since it means it's accessible to anyone above room temperature body temp + iq

Ayak especially is just a trident skip now

WGS + Synapse -> Delve/Yama

@true talon I'm feeling the itch to make a UIM

[true talon]

Don’t do that to yourself

[hard axle]

fk u mean

[true talon]

Uim is terrible

[hard axle]

if im gonna play an iron full time, it might as well be as tylenol as possible

[hard axle]

no-death storage/dping

[still sundial]

UIM best gamemode

[icy relic]

Ayak is borderline bowfa skip as far as raiding is concerned

[true talon]

I’m lazy so having to go get even the basics is fucking annoying

[icy relic]

That shit is so good

[hard axle]

This + Confliction IS effectively a bowfa skip

[icy relic]

Obviously not a replacement for zuk and colo but it is extremely broken

[true talon]

And the gear of losing everything to 1 forgotten death pile

[obsidian venture]

Always have to cater to the noobs in game. Endgame content means fuck all really

[hard axle]

I wouldn't be deathpiling

[true talon]

Sang needs a buff

[obsidian venture]

Jagex should just stop mentioning endgame as it’s not a thing

[hard axle]

Ayak + Sang so Sang can 3t and heal

[obsidian venture]

Ayak could have been the sang buff as an attachment

[hard axle]

or sacrifice Sang to Ayak to heal

[true talon]

lol

[hard axle]

I don't like attachments nowadays

[obsidian venture]

Either or

[hard axle]

sacrifice better for both drops

[icy relic]

I'm not even going to say catering to noobs or whatever but like Jagex needs to stop treating the playerbase like they get anxiety from playing the game

[true talon]

I’m still holding out for ancestral replacement armor

[craggy cairn]

I'm towards the end of the Ratcatcher quest and I put my cat down to smoke them out, and it disappeared. Does anyone know where it went or how to get it back?

[icy relic]

People have shown they can and will rise to the challenge but not if the game incentives you to learn nothing and spam 1-6

[obsidian venture]

I mean it’s basically catering as folks have 3 wives/husbands, 15 kids and 4 jobs. Need to make sure that for the 10 minutes you play that you’re op

Fuck progression 👍

[icy relic]

Doom is an extremely long grind so it isn't that

[obsidian venture]

Doesn’t really matter when you can graduate from jad and reset delve 4

[true talon]

Progression in osrs is good and it’s at the best it’s been in long time

[icy relic]

It's the fact that they made the entire reward structure shit and not scale at the top end just like they did with ToA

[true talon]

Before it was msb to rcb to blowpipe to tbow

[obsidian venture]

The pathways are interesting but the difference in bis and the next down is piss

[true talon]

Ibans to trident

[icy relic]

Rewarding reddit 300s but high invo gets completely shafted

545 invo worse than normal CoX

[true talon]

D scimmie to whip

[obsidian venture]

In terms of meaningful upgrades it’s fine. But from where they’re offered it’s not

There’s just a bad balance

I like stuff filling in the slots and I agree with Tass that it was shit before

[true talon]

545 is not worst than cox

[obsidian venture]

But in that same sense they just made it too accessible

[icy relic]

Meanwhile they added like 10 midgame weps to help you get into raids so you can literally start doing 300 ToA within a week or two of making an account

[true talon]

It’s still like 9% unique chance with high weight on shadow and masori

[obsidian venture]

No one runs them really

[hasty shard]

just one more dscim sidegrade bro

[obsidian venture]

Jagex effectively killed off that community

To cater to the noobs

[icy relic]

It's not high weight, it is still more raids per unique for EVERY unique than prenerf

They just removed the fangs as well

[true talon]

I don’t think having people printing uniques was good for the game

[icy relic]

Yeah it's not

[hard axle]

now you just skip all of that wym

[icy relic]

The fix is to remove shadow from low invo lol

[true talon]

It was like a 1/6

[hard axle]

that's what me and Jif are saying about Ayak/Confliction

[true talon]

Low invo does not produce shadows

[icy relic]

150-300 are low invo

[true talon]

A 150 is very rare to see a shadow

[hard axle]

you legit skip 3 progression because herder you can do 1-3 delve til u get it

[thick beacon]

they had a stat saying majority of purples come from sub 400 raid lvl

[icy relic]

300 is so piss easy after the changes

[true talon]

300 is still expert regardless of what you think

[thick beacon]

and they didint nerf sub 400 raid lvl

they made it easier

[hard axle]

yeah stfu bitch

u act like them adding 50 raid invo for free didn't make it easier

and making baba + other changes didn't make it easier

[obsidian venture]

It’s expert if you have 3 working fingers

[hard axle]

300 was expert on release

but they nerfed it so much that it's not anymore

this is fact

toa now is much easier than toa on release when they decided 300 was expert

this is fact

[true talon]

Oh they improved the raid with those changes

[hard axle]

massively

[hasty shard]

0 damage baba btw

[median wing]

they need to make double trouble and keepback easier so it's inline with other invos

[hard axle]

dude, did u even touch toa after the changes or are you yapping...

[true talon]

This was already true if you red-x

[obsidian venture]

Now you can stand still and 1 hand game at baba

[hard axle]

dude, akkha got a massive buff lmao

u havent done the raid since changes

[icy relic]

I don't care about technicalities, the rework was a huge slap in the face of everyone who cared about high invo and it is reflected in shadow absolutely tanking and 545 falling below normal CoX

[true talon]

I watch my iron friends do it, I already finished way before the changes.

[hard axle]

but i kid you not

[hasty shard]

i mean dt is easy its just shit design cause you lose time

[hard axle]

clearly u didnt remember from watching how big of a buff it was

[obsidian venture]

Keep back was made free post change

[hard axle]

to say 300 expert on release is the same as 300 expert today is dumb

[obsidian venture]

If you struggle you might just be dumb

[hard axle]

thats all im saying

[true talon]

I didn’t say that

[obsidian venture]

Aka you don’t have to melee him anymore so you’re always at a distance

[median wing]

dumb people should also be able to enjoy the game

[icy relic]

Like you can argue semantics all you want but ToA is literally dead because the strat is just to spam 300s

[obsidian venture]

Sure

[thick beacon]

the thing is imo it barely matters scaling/invos make it difficult to push without good gear consistently

[true talon]

Also cm on release compared to cm now or hm tob ext or even inferno

[obsidian venture]

But stand away from akkha and keepback does nothing

[true talon]

Content becomes easier over time

[obsidian venture]

And these changes solidified that

[thick beacon]

like most ppl prob are gona be better off doing 400-450 then 500s

[obsidian venture]

500s is qp city now

So yeah

[hard axle]

500s are legit as easy as 380s now

pre-nerf

[true talon]

Let’s compare classic wow which was seen as most difficult raiding content of its time.

And 20 years later when classic re-released the players conquered it in hours

[hasty shard]

the funniest thing with baba nerf to me is that tanking sarcs doesnt hurt you

[hard axle]

to say "herder, it's expert mode regardless what you think" and then ignore how much easier it's become

is silly

[median wing]

taking a shower was harder before we had running water as well

[hard axle]

baba is giant mole tier content now

[median wing]

in fact I think it cant even be called a shower

if u don't have running water

maybe if u find a waterfall

[obsidian venture]

Bro what

[hard axle]

yeah, keepback got hella nerfed already

[median wing]

yeah the new baba meta looks fun

[hard axle]

because as long as you don't get hit

he stays melee

[median wing]

u can just do bottom right -> bottom left -> top left sarcs

[hard axle]

its basically perfect akkha invo

[median wing]

reverse reading order

[obsidian venture]

even if you do get hit you never have to melee akkha till last phase

So people not running kb are

[icy relic]

It is concerning to say at the very least that they fumbled the drop tables and difficulty for Yama, Doom, AND the ToA rework

I said this earlier but there needs to be gatekeeping again for access to endgame bosses

You can't just crawl out of A Kingdom Divided/Final Dawn and have access to BiS gear

Bringing up the case of WGS during RS2 once more

To even access TDs and d claws back in the days, WGS required every other quest at the time meaning you needed a QPC

Skilling reqs for quests have barely gone up, if anything they are being dialed back more and more so people can ignore the game and just PvM all the time

[tacit wharf]

i did enjoy reading that mining/smithing rework suggestion the other day that behe saw

[bronze kernel]

While in the talk of ToA, can we just delete the puzzle rooms?

[icy relic]

There has to be a serious discussion of moving shadow out of <300 invo and possibly all purps out of entry mode now that jewels are so common

And properly buffing rates on high invo once more

[hard axle]

I'd argue <400 wouldn't be unreasonable due to how many changes have been made to make the content incredibly easy, even with bad gear.

[vivid ruin]

For shadow only?

[hard axle]

Still think they should also buff Red Keris by making it the spec the same attack delay as normal attack.

[icy relic]

I'm just curious if Jagex released the numbers again for the breakdown of uniques from each invo bracket

Post rebal

[tough nacelle]

I guess I just see doom as harder than CG but the low gear req is kinda wild

And I put this content as similar tier gear as bowfa

Minus boots

[solar juniper]

Sailing on the 19th? That feels like fairly quick development. Then again, my timescales for shit suck XD

[tacit wharf]

not really

beta was summer

[bronze kernel]

It took them a few years to finish everything

Like half of it was making boat move

[ember token]

2nd half of November was the most obvious release window

[bold portal]

I was under the assumption they’d have this new game engine finished before sailing

[bronze kernel]

Right after Gridmaster ends

[cursive quail]

I really hope sailing comes and isn't bad

[bronze kernel]

And just in time for DMM

[cursive quail]

i wasn't able to beta test

[bold portal]

There will be memes and rage

[bronze kernel]

Imagining people PKing each other from each others boats

[solar juniper]

Think I missed the beta. Might explain why it feels fast lol

[tacit wharf]

that isnt going to be out at launch

[cursive quail]

dmm sailing might be legendary

pull up with your clan to the final showsown on a ciant ass viking warship

[tacit wharf]

dont think sailing is going to be part of dmm

[cursive quail]

with the whole clan

[tacit wharf]

pretty sure they said that

[cursive quail]

that would be pretty lame, why the hell did they make sailing a skill if we aren't going to have the final showdown in dmm a naval battle

[tacit wharf]

because sailing pvp isnt out yet

....

and wont be for launch

[cursive quail]

thy've been working on this for what 2 years?

and we aren't getting pvp

or combat

[tacit wharf]

and they've said they wont release sailing pvp at launch

[cursive quail]

i'm just gunna go lay fishing trawler?

sounds pretty lame ngl

[true talon]

Gross water agility

[cursive quail]

they've been working on it for what 2 years?

[restive sapphire]

i remember a long ass time ago i suggested ivory and people hated it bc it "encourages" poaching
and now we have deep sea trawling

[cursive quail]

you made me think of the whalers on the moon episode of futurama, thank you

that's hilarious actually

if we don't destroy coral reefs with the nets i will be disapointed

[idle rapids]

So ready to do this for 100 hours
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/431834766325841920/1417895090734764053/ssstwitter.com_1756871607575_1.mp4?ex=68fcecb4&is=68fb9b34&hm=d4d6e299c859ddd76618a42ccc7ae4ee85749534139203181cb05305110d1b3d&

[cursive quail]

too unrealistic

[tough nacelle]

It’s an unpopular opinion but I genuinely don’t think TOA is as easy as people made it out to be ( I’m talking pre changes, I haven’t sent many post changes). a 350 was harder than a solo cox. The issue was the drop rates were insanely high vs the other similarly difficult raids we had once you scaled it

Scaling was the issue and not the unique strength or the difficulty

Plus frequency of drops

[analog crow]

Actually Jagex pls delay the release 1 week, I can't play that day 😭

[tough nacelle]

Jagex finally realized shadow scaling was a mistake and will probably address it

[icy relic]

You are correct, no disagreements regarding the state of pre rebal ToA but my argument is that the changes had the opposite effect by pushing all the incentives away from high invo into 300s

[cursive quail]

we can only pray they will fix magic atp i doubt they will do much about it

[icy relic]

300s just get an easier raid compared to before, period

[tough nacelle]

I definitely think TOA should have had a hard cap of 300 for unique chance with similar level of difficulty to pre recent changes

[cursive quail]

I wish they would have given us the 3t wand from toa instead

[tough nacelle]

And left 500 for cosmetic rewards

[true talon]

Entire update about mage rebalance and all they did was nerf occult and put a lot of the power into ancestral

[icy relic]

Whereas people doing high invo were already doing 5:1 Baba and butterfly so the changes benefitted high invo less while significantly nerfing their drops

[tough nacelle]

Like CMs

[hard axle]

I'm gonna ram all you on hte seas

⛵

[stray tinsel]

wheres the HD beta still

[tough nacelle]

I think high bingo invo never should have existed beyond cosmetic benefits

[icy relic]

This is actually close to the state of current ToA and you see the consequences

[true talon]

While your sailing, I’ll be teleporting like a modern adventure who has mastered magic and has no need to physically go places

[icy relic]

Shadow is good nowhere now

ToA was the one place shadow excelled

[tough nacelle]

I don’t think that’s true

[true talon]

Shadow is still bis everywhere

[icy relic]

Now that ToA is not worth doing shadow is in the dumps

[tough nacelle]

Shadow is BIS in most of cox

[true talon]

It’s bis everywhere in cox

[tough nacelle]

Shadow is BIS for a lot of gwd which like it or not are still profitable

[hard axle]

You still have to sail to the location to unlock it

[tough nacelle]

The cost to use shadow and requirements of other max gear

[hard axle]

which is where I'll fucking get you

[true talon]

Anywhere you’d mage shadow is bis

[tough nacelle]

Makes it less appealing

[icy relic]

Shadow is not BiS for GWD, dolo horn/nhally is

[cursive quail]

i will literally die if tha's what this skill is going to be

[true talon]

Shadow problem is the 600m gear investment + high cost to use

[idle rapids]

Good nowhere

[true talon]

You can’t rebuild from a shadow like a tbow

[tough nacelle]

wiki is bad for that to be fair

[hard axle]

It's 40m for most of Shadow's power, just fyi

[true talon]

Every shot with shadow is -1300gp

[hard axle]

You acting like it's not nasty even without max

[idle rapids]

mostly joking it will prob be a few hours of gameplay training to like lvl 50 before you unlock more interesting content

[hard axle]

torm, eternals is perfectly fine lmao

[idle rapids]

And even then you could do other stuff at low levels and not be efficient

[true talon]

Heart is required

[tough nacelle]

Reality is Yama isn’t game breaking. Nex was not enjoyable and the gear was grossly overpriced

[true talon]

It adds 8 max hits

[tough nacelle]

Yama gear drop rates are quite fair and I’d argue harder than nex

Difference is you can solo it

Vs requiring a team

[icy relic]

Yama is overhated

[hard axle]

at cox?

[true talon]

Nex is dogshit gold farmer bot content

[icy relic]

It is as long between drops as nex

[hard axle]

You can also sit on forgotten brew

it's like 2-3 max hits less

iirc

[tough nacelle]

Yama drop and difficulty is balanced

Sad that no mega is useful there

Other than contracts

But Yama isn’t a failure

[idle rapids]

I dont like that yama is so easy and low req and drops gear thats BIS over torva

[tough nacelle]

Doom I also don’t think is a failure.

[true talon]

Shadow max is also not very high

[tough nacelle]

I think once people realize that it’s not that hard

[icy relic]

Hyperbole aside, shadow lost its chief moneymaker where it really pulled ahead relative to the competition now that high invo ToA is just terrible

[true talon]

Doom is more annoying than hard

[tough nacelle]

The drops will be worth less

Dooms main issue is bugs

[true talon]

Why is there rng to grub spawns and type of grubs, why is there rng and no control on the acid

[tough nacelle]

But I think jagex is getting more hate on drop rates and BIS gear than they should

Quality control has been lacking hard for testing

And that I 200% think is an issue

[true talon]

Why does doom drop nothing for loot than you basically just go till you die over claiming

[tough nacelle]

But I actually think Yama and doom were good updates

[tough nacelle]

I also think this is silly

[true talon]

Yama was a sick update

[hard axle]

People are very hypocritical about heart and bring it up without thought like it's some gotcha moment when it couldn't be any further from the truth.

If you told me that they will add a 125 melee reuseable 1-slot heart and then a new melee boost potion with 120 melees, but no defense boost, 100% would love that.

[tough nacelle]

I’ve gotten plenty of 1m loots by wave 7-8

[hard axle]

Geniunely, give me a fucking 120-melee version of Saturated Heart

[true talon]

Do the bones still inflate the price

[icy relic]

1m loot? Without sun kissed bones?

[tough nacelle]

I’m excluding bones

Bones are liars

Dragon legs

[true talon]

Coulda dropped d arrows

[tough nacelle]

Dragon darts

[hard axle]

wihtout bones, i've gotten like 400k for 1-16 runs

[icy relic]

I don't think I've ever hit 1m boneless in a 1-8

[true talon]

Instead it drops d darts

[tough nacelle]

Oh I’ve hit it a few times

[icy relic]

You would have to hit darts and catalysts and legs on every floor

[true talon]

Glad to be done with doom the base loot as depressing

[tough nacelle]

I’ve been fairly lucky at doom

The base loot for me wasn’t too bad

[hard axle]

Even at Wave 100, Widega was only getting like 6-7m without bones

[tough nacelle]

I thought it was fair

Sometimes 250k

Sometimes 1m

[icy relic]

Yeh I been doing 50+ on leagues

And it's like 2M

Not leagues, mcgriddle

[tough nacelle]

That’s such a different experience than I had

I was averaging about 500k by wave 7