game-update

[round lintel]

What would you do with the shadow? I have never seen a reallistic good suggestion about the shadow

[final frigate]

Uncap to start ty

Also it's in part a fundamental mage problem not just shadow so there's that

[hasty shard]

cap the accuracy :3c

[icy relic]

Increase the base numbers, make it have a less toxic interaction with mage gear

[nocturne solstice]

You could cap the accuracy and uncap the damage

[pastel geyser]

Uncap both and make it 4x

[round lintel]

I sometimes still splashed at olm hand in cms with max mage (havent tried with treads and confliction yet) same for other contents but TOA so why is accuracy really a bad thing if most of new bosses have like an absurd mage defence.

[pastel geyser]

Make scythe all hits be able to mwx hit

And tbow should scale unlimited as well

1000 mage? 1000% damage!!!

Fair and balanced

Defacto BiS means less sidegrades needed

Those are for the poor

Could also remove the scaling and make shadow a 1 tick weapon

Makes it good in ToB

[nocturne solstice]

If they have absurd mage defence then usually it means you should be using something else (Like twisted bow). The problem with shadow is that it's so damn accurate you aren't gunna use something else. Here's a few bits of content that aren't mage content but made mage viable only if you bring shadow.

• The Inferno
• All 4 GWD bosses
• Zulrah
• Kalphite Queen
• Abyssal Sire
• Fortis Colosseum

I mentioned cap acc and uncap dmg earlier so that it'll still feel really good using it (big dmg number nice) against stuff that's supposed to be weak against mage while still leaving room for other megarares to shine.

[round lintel]

Idk they should delete toa and make it as it never existed

XD

[nocturne solstice]

Nah they just need to make ToA 2 so people just complain about that one instead

[meager flame]

its actually pretty "easy"

and by easy i just mean the math is very possible

you would just change the rate that it scales so that it would more or less match scythe and tbow

and you could even implement that scaling beyond either our current or reasonably soon max mage gear

and use the old formula before that point

they might find out that tbow and scythe are a little too far apart from each other themselves scaling wise and want to fix those too in the process but

it would basically lock magic in on a similar rate of change that range/melee are at the top end

which is what i think you would ultimately want

thats a very shadow centric fix but i really doubt they're going to hit us with some insane magic rework where they have to touch like everything in the game

im actually pretty curious why they don't do something like this because it would ultimately just result in soft caps where they could slow down the rate that certain items were scaling just to keep them in line with the rest of the game

[icy relic]

I don't think shadow should have parity with scythe

But one solution is indexing less on acc because conflictions exist, allow shadow to benefit from confliction, and giving it more power

[nocturne solstice]

I think thats a really weird and bad suggestion. I don't really want every weapon to just be X but mage/range/melee

Its weird since all 3 megarares work differently and are strong in different situations. Tbow for high Mage stat, Scythe for 3x3, Shadow for being rich and having max mage gear

[meager flame]

yeah they're already different in their own niches

but ultimately

they have to decide what top end dps looks like

and you can't just say scythe is 25% stronger unless they plan on having every boss protect melee

there are already several ways for them to make it interesting and how you decide which weapon to use

theres really no reason to just

make magic suck for example

or make it a lot better

also the scythe niche specifically is probably worse than the shadows if thats even possible

since they just about never make a boss where 3x3 isn't relevant lol

the scaling adjustment is just to make sure the shadow doesn't outpace the rest of the game

[nocturne solstice]

I think they can by just changing boss stats and mechanics, that's the point. Scythe being 25% stronger at this boss means you should run scythe.

A great example of this is Yama where Melee is way better than mage but has a lot more mechanics you have to learn so most people stick with mage for slower kills.

Its fine for X style to be a lot better than another at content, you just dont want one style to be the best at every piece of content which Shadow was leaning into and why people freaked out about the original proposal for the confliction gauntlets.

[meager flame]

yeah and im not talking about changing that whatsoever

I probably should've started there because it seems like you don't really understand to begin with

the problem with the shadow currently isn't that the shadow is good or that its used in several places

thats supposed to happen

the problem is that it will continue to scale until its far too good in general if you kept adding gear to the game

now if people are upset that the third megarare actually soaks up a bunch of bosses and is actually good and usable just like the other two

dunno that seems like the intent and isn't a problem

[nocturne solstice]

I feel like what you said only makes sense if the game is stagnant which going off what you just said, you don't think it is.

So how would "Change the rate that it scales so that it more or less match scythe and tbow" work if like you said, it will continue to scale as we keep adding new gear into the game?

You can run the math and have it match tbow and scythe right now but then you'd have to rebalance every time new gear came in which is what makes it a bad idea.

[thick beacon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cqI0-uCJU0 feel like this guy came up with a great soulution to keep current power lvl of shadow and also change insane scalling

i dont think they should nerf shadow power lvl eye will just beat it its that close already

[final frigate]

is this the gear number scaling thing

[thick beacon]

this is his soulution and he expands on how this works out overall in video

[final frigate]

could match shadow gear upgrades to scythe/tbow

like scythe nothing->bandos->torva/oath and tbow nothing->dhide->masori for example

make shadow ahrims->virt->anc similar to those

but also as mentioned earlier shadow's problem isn't really a shadow problem

it's that every other mage sucks

[thick beacon]

eye is insane now

[final frigate]

yeah eye kinda saviour

[nocturne solstice]

yup, so you gotta add better/new gear or rebalance to make older gear better which just buffs the shadow more though

[meager flame]

you can hypothetically add damage and items to any attack style to examine how things will likely scale into the future

and of course things can and will change

[final frigate]

powered staves also being boring as balls is part of the problem

[nocturne solstice]

Well yeah

[final frigate]

they're just reskinned range weapons

[meager flame]

you cannot have an eternal solution to something you plan to continue to change

they will have to continue to balance osrs

forever

not just shadow but literally everything

[nocturne solstice]

Thats... a weird thing to say

[thick beacon]

even then like gap between trident/shadow is pretty similar to whip/scy or bowfa/tbow melee range just has decent items like dhcb bp to come somewhat close

[nocturne solstice]

Constantly patching shouldnt be the intention

[meager flame]

its not weird its extremely obvious lol

[nocturne solstice]

Like, constantly changing how gear works and its stats isnt something you should intend to do

[meager flame]

that's just a fantasy though

they'll have to adjust things when problems arise

[nocturne solstice]

If you want to call it that then fine

[meager flame]

its not avoidable

[nocturne solstice]

But you aim towards that fantasy, your intent is to make a piece of content that doesnt need any changes after.

[final frigate]

well ideally you don't keep changing shadow, you just release new content accordingly

[meager flame]

yeah until you realize hey the shadow is fine right now but if we keep adding items it'll be a problem

[nocturne solstice]

Your suggestion of just changing the shadow every time a new piece of gear comes out is just super unrealistic

[meager flame]

like what has happened

so you need to create an easy tool to adjust that with

they probably wouldn't have to adjust it ever again honestly

but they might have to and it sure would be nice if they already had the formula to tweak

[final frigate]

like instead of releasing a 10% mstr armour and then going "oh now we need to nerf shadow" you just don't release the 10% armour and make it 5% instead

idk where the constantly needing changes came from

[nocturne solstice]

Well yowas already posted a video with a nice solution that adapts well to future content.

[thick beacon]

tbow has a way higher max hit then shadow without needing to triple dmg

[meager flame]

the problem with this is that you're boxing yourself in

"well we cant make interesting items in the future because there's this one item from 15 years ago and it would just be way too insane better scrap it and go with something safe"

sometimes you're just gonna have to change stuff

[final frigate]

shadow only affects accuracy and mstr

[meager flame]

especially relevant for shadow because

every other part of magic doesn't scale with either of those stats nearly well enough outside of i'd say eye

so if you dont curtail shadow you're also kind of cursing tons of other things to just never being able to be good

unless you want to make a strange exception for each and every item

like how ballista is randomly good on araxxor

or tds

usually you don't really want to build traps like that though

[thick beacon]

i think thats fine personally eye is something u can get really early i dont see why trident of swamp has to compete with something much harder to get

[final frigate]

it's also pretty hilarious how shadow in its own raid is only strong on 2 out of 5 bosses and one patch away from becoming 1/5

[meager flame]

where you cant make an item a reasonable upgrade when using a kodai because the shadow would redline and just step way over the line

[thick beacon]

they had to nerf tbow in toa/give shadow 4x just for it to be better then bow there

[meager flame]

this problem is why shadow and eye exist though

magic is generally just kind of ass

those insane stats on the shadow are what it took to make magic relevant

[final frigate]

tbow still winning on zebak and anguish upgrade away from winning on wardens

[thick beacon]

eye shows though that u dont need that insane stuff either to be decent though

[final frigate]

akkha is the only real shadow boss in toa

[thick beacon]

like i get shadow problem but then u have tbow gaining 5max hits for 6str bonus and hitting 100s

[meager flame]

the eye kind of does show it though

if the shadow was the eye

we would be sitting here laughing about the "megarare" from toa

because you'd hardly ever use it

it would be good in a few places

[thick beacon]

id use eye everywhere its like 15% better then anything u trident

[nocturne solstice]

Hasnt ayak changed the strats quite a bit in a few places? I remember it being used in inferno?

[final frigate]

confliction moment

[meager flame]

yeah a glorified trident for the designated trident spots in raids

yeah and thats the gauntlets

[last onyx]

Ayak is insanely good, people just don't know where and how to use it yet.

[nocturne solstice]

hey if we're gunna talk ayak we might as well talk about the whole doom update

[meager flame]

those are probably getting nerfed

im ngl

[thick beacon]

people do its just new ppl already discovered relatively easy ways to use it at olm solos

[final frigate]

probably not when they're saving non-shadow mage atm

[meager flame]

magic being good is alright

magic being good wearing full torva for anything

idk if that passes

[nocturne solstice]

I dont see why not when that reduces mdmg% and confliction still only works after missing so

You're using more runes

[meager flame]

thats kinda like how people sometimes doom about gano

but a lot worse

[nocturne solstice]

or whatever that thing uses, tears? i dont own one

[meager flame]

for reference gano was magic gear that got added before eoc that had like barrows def

lmao it was very dumb

the eye is a good item for being very good at the few places designed for tridents though

that does happen but it doesn't address the same thing the shadow did

the shadow is basically juiced up to turn back a decade+ of jagex just not really designing anything to accept a player using magic as a primary style outside of the like

few moments where they say okay heres a magic only olm hand so you use it once in awhile

they could've also changed bosses and spells and tridents etc to fix it

but they went with just making a really big stick

[nocturne solstice]

Iunno that just sounds like a weird argument to me. Is there times where melee or ranged are used specifically on content they arent designed for?

[meager flame]

yeah

[nocturne solstice]

like what

[meager flame]

tbow blows zulrah's head off in any phase

muspah

same deal

[nocturne solstice]

Zulrah is designed for range/mage and you say its weird range is strong there

why

[meager flame]

no

im saying tbow is good at killing the phase intended for magic

shadow does the same thing at both bosses

its still ideal to just swap but lol

assuming you have both

[nocturne solstice]

If you look at Zulrah's stats then its not strange though.

[thick beacon]

i dont see how this is that diffrent then tbow/scy they are just big slow whacking sticks as well

[meager flame]

megarares tend to break rules like that occasionally

like how our beloved scythe is a crush machine

[icy relic]

Scythe is the fairest mega because it doesn't break the rules of acc, it just has huge potential max hit at the cost of acc

[nocturne solstice]

I was talking more about actual bosses specifically designed for a style or something. And since we're talking about ayak shouldnt we talk about non-mega melee/ranged gear too?

[icy relic]

Tbow acc scaling is pretty fair as well

[nocturne solstice]

I guess bowfa camp also works at zulrah but the point still stands

[icy relic]

Shadow is the one where they just threw everything out

[thick beacon]

idk if its fair for tbow/scy to be beating lance at important content

tbow can often win on 0 defence over bp to

[meager flame]

yeah they typically kind of dunk on the dragon bane or demon bane weapons

sometimes jagex even swerves to make sure it happens

like duke

[thick beacon]

scy being best crush weapon as well

so i think its fair if magic is over taking other magic weapons when melee/range do the same

[icy relic]

It's not hard to make a stab dragon boss that is resistant to slash and crush

Olm just isn't that dragon

[meager flame]

yeah the problem with magic is that its shadow or eye

i guess you could juice up a harm orb too but

a lot of people would be mad at that

and when they made the shadow elemental weaknesses weren't in and the eye didn't exist

they basically created it to be the only magic weapon that mattered

because everything else just never did even before it existed lol

tbh i think jagex just making realistic magic weapons is the biggest fix they can do long term

after they decide whatever they're going to do about it being a little too cracked with more gear

[icy relic]

Cracked how

[meager flame]

basically for the shadow to actually have the accuracy and damage to get to actually being comparable to tbow/scythe and be bis for a roughly similar number of bosses

mostly the accuracy

[icy relic]

Shadow's main niche outside of ToA was annhilating old bad bosses with a billion def

[meager flame]

it had to scale very hard with gear

the problem is

the scaling doesn't appear to be capped

so they put in numbers that mostly caught it up

but it will surpass more or less everything depending on how much more magic gear we decide to add

and just be good for everything

assuming its not just immune to magic lol

that cant be allowed to happen

[unreal plover]

shadow is capped tho

[meager flame]

they said it was

and then they said it wasn't as far as they could tell looking at the code

so that blog might have just been someone accidentally lying about work they never ended up doing

not sure

[icy relic]

Shadow hasn't taken a single newer boss designed to be catered towards and intended style

[meager flame]

oh for sure

[unreal plover]

well either it doesnt matter currently

it is capped in toa

and outside you cant reach the cap yet

[meager flame]

but they're currently scared of adding more gear because of it

they've talked about it several times now

[icy relic]

And outside of ToA soulflame horn dolos completely shit on shadow for GWD

[unreal plover]

they just added gauntlets tho

[meager flame]

yeah and read how they work

[unreal plover]

and that is not the only thing they do

shadow would not benefit much from the passive either way

[meager flame]

it would've been meta for levi iirc

[icy relic]

The problem with shadow is that it holds back the rest of the style and it holds back the gear from being good without weird conditions

[meager flame]

they're scared of the shadow for good reason

its like the bp where right now its not a problem

but it easily could be in the future

thats why they promised to change shadow whenever they add the next magic bis

[icy relic]

BP is not a problem because of def floors

[unreal plover]

they also added treads too lol

[final frigate]

Capping was the intention from the start, it just wasn't necessary to code since it wasn't reaching it

[unreal plover]

2 sources of magic damage in one update

[final frigate]

And when it was about to reach it they added the code

[meager flame]

yeah i think that was the plan and they just like

didn't

lmao

[icy relic]

A year ago I was such a shadow doomer

Now I'm like where do I even use this shit outside of ToA

[final frigate]

That's just reclining on the dev not really a big deal

[meager flame]

i do think people are like weirdly fixated on it

like

you'd think it was op and broke the game today

instead of a future potential issue

and honestly a hard cap is also a problem

[icy relic]

It broke the game in the past

But they have made other options

[meager flame]

you wouldn't want to do the reverse and have it just fall off a cliff in a few years and need adjustments for that reason

it just needs a reasonable amount of scaling basically

somewhere between almost none and insane would be fine lol

[icy relic]

I just think mage gearing feels really bad

Midgame you get your ahrim tier and that's it basically until torm/occult

And 3% doesn't even give you a max hit

[meager flame]

they did 100% fail everyone with their project rebalance with magic gearing

people basically sat around all the time pointing out the problems with magic from accuracy to the gear to the % increases base spell damage whatever

and jagex pulled up to that with 1% to boots or whatever

[icy relic]

Project rebal just made mage gear not matter early on

And hid the problem behind insane numbers

[meager flame]

lmao maybe they just didn't have nearly the scope to actually do something about magic

but it was kinda funny

its pretty crazy if you actually inspect everything about magic

even the potions aren't really right

magic prayers too

[icy relic]

They took the worst parts of RS2 magic and kept none of the good parts

Very funny indeed

[minor whale]

Huh
I don't think project rebalance made anything worse, it just gave a new lever to adjust
They just haven't bothered adjusting the levers much

[meager flame]

i think it was an improvement but it was also kind of like

throwing a glass of water at a forest fire

[minor whale]

It made mid-game more reasonably balanced instead of just 'fuck you don't use magic'

[icy relic]

It's not the good kind of improvement when you are hitting insane damage with no gear on certain mobs

Versus slapping for baby numbers extremely inaccurately with the other styles

[meager flame]

they kind of expanded the range of super early game where fire strike actually bangs compared to alternatives

but they didn't really do a lot for people on the other end of things

[icy relic]

And then mid/lategame the elemental system goes out the window and you're exclusively using chargestaves

[minor whale]

I mean
Surges naked vs ddarts naked is not some crazy dps comparison
But early on mage is strong, it's always been the strongest style super early

I think people way over doom on mage
It's not perfect but it's not something broken either way

The worst thing I can say about mage is the % scaling instead of mage strength bonus

[meager flame]

idk confliction gauntlets are making the list of things that aren't so great

which sucks because they are good but

theres some i think unintended consequences of putting that much accuracy in one slot

[icy relic]

They just gave a quasi fang to all magic because the acc problem was so bad

[meager flame]

im not sure if they really asked themselves what they would do if we for example

decided to wear melee gear

because that's not really what you want to see

[icy relic]

I do like the emergent gameplay from things being a little unhinged

That jank is indeed very RS

It is interesting that the gaunts really reward you for not being too accurate

Sitting around the 50% acc range

[minor whale]

You're not being rewarded for being less accurate, it's just a bigger relative increase
You're still less accurate than just being more accurate would be

It's like saying a potion that gives +4 max hit rewards you for having low strength bonus

[meager flame]

i think stuff like that is good unless it actively dumbs down content and gauntlets letting you equip a ton of defensive bonuses kind of falls on the wrong end of that

[minor whale]

Mage was always the style that got gimped the most by not wearing mage gear

I don't think it's too bad to offset that some

Ranged you can wear full Justiciar and still slap with a blowpipe on most mobs

Melee you can wear full Masori and it's meta in some places

Mage if you wore ANYTHING other than mage armor, fuck you you're now missing 80% of the time

[meager flame]

yeah but what do you do when that isn't the case

and something like blood barrage exists

magic already had answers to not being able to really tank well

[blazing rain]

Please buff the skill capes

[hard axle]

Lower the cap outside toa to 85% and uncap it inside toa.

Part of the issue is that Shadow is holding back magic, just like how BP is holding back ranged still. And this is my opinion, but the Shadow is still atrociously strong for how good it is.

Magus and Venator Ring are examples of tiny ass upgrades that would ordinarily never be worth to bring. Still has something like 8 max hits left outside ToA and while they slowly trickle them in 1-2% at a time.

[hasty shard]

while they

[hard axle]

fixed

[earnest marsh]

Please buff elite diarys!

[last onyx]

So when the ToA balance to unique rates was announced this is definitely not what i expected or in the blog, 9.11% from a 570 solo, down from about 24% before. Is this correct or is the plugin and wiki calculator broken? A 500 is like 8.3%. If it's broken; what's the actual rate?

[earnest marsh]

Just add more stronger magic shields

Dragon defender is like +7 strenght, and accuracy

Meanwhile magic shield is locked behind high drop rate

While dragon defender is piss early game

Mage book is nice, but idk, maybe just buff every offhand shield?

[thick beacon]

purple rates are dumpsterd but they increased wieghting of shadow masori a lot

like if ur doing 500s ur shadow wieghting is like 1/16 i think or 1/18 on a purple instead of 1/24

[round lintel]

The elidinis ward is a joke, needing the arcane sigil to be good. Elidinis ward has no defence no accuracy and most of the times it doesnt give a max hit with that 1% difference from other off hands with magic damage (Mages book, wyvern shield, malefdiction)

[ember token]

noo we cant devalue corp items argh ahhh we gotta make the elidinis ward require the arcane ward

*proceeds to make spectral spirit shield not work at any new source of prayer drain*

[earnest marsh]

yep

[earnest marsh]

and its way way easyer to get shadow then get the arcane sigil+ward

honestly arcane sigility+ward should be a mega rare, not shadow

it would make mage in a better spot also

buff nightmare staffs, eye of ayak

makes alot of staff worth to use late game

[round lintel]

As ironman elidinis + arcane only if I get lucky. As a main the 90 smithing is also ludacris.

But overall ward should be better than it is in base

At least pair up with mages book or malediction

Specially cuz most mobs are tanky af on mage

[earnest marsh]

also makes elemental spells 20% stronger, and ancient spells +5%damage

[round lintel]

Whisp without a shadow is horrible

[earnest marsh]

good thing whisp kinda irrelevant

[round lintel]

Even with eye is still a bad experience

[round lintel]

Would be but you still want sra if you dont get scythe

[earnest marsh]

nox hally is jsut alot faster grind and has good uses in tob'

[round lintel]

Still sra is way more dps if you know how to use it

And nox hally is just slightly worse than defender + blade

Avernic defender*

While sra is way more dps

[earnest marsh]

ye

sra needs to be alot better dps

when its like x10 longer grind

and you kinda dont use sra anymore after scythe

crazy design

[round lintel]

Tru but is also fun for slayer

Haha

[earnest marsh]

sad to say, but slayer after 85 is just barrage every task

and if you dont have eonguh points

turadel

believe with the slayer change, you maybe can ahve eonguh points to skip all non barrage task

[round lintel]

Anyways the ward needs a buff

On base

[earnest marsh]

just look at this table

its just way to insane

this just makes it insanly hard to make content

drops*

cant make a better specia lattack thnen claws, but now we have voidwaker

elder maul bis defence reduction, cant really make a better weapon?

cant really make a better ancient staff?

bow

[narrow folio]

Can't do this since ayak would beat shadow almost everywhere with current gear lol

[earnest marsh]

that would be fine no? way harder to grind arcane sigil+ward then shadow

[narrow folio]

shadow's the megarare not ayak

would make no sense

[earnest marsh]

the shield would become a megarare kinda

[narrow folio]

from corp?

[earnest marsh]

corp+toa

[narrow folio]

don't think that should be the intention

[earnest marsh]

and i believe its still going to be even or less dps then shadow

[narrow folio]

Like is it ok for ayak to beat shadow by 10% on kraken, 2% on olm

thats crazy

[earnest marsh]

i guess ye

well hmm

maybe not

arcane sigil so insane rare tho

shadow is shorter grind then arcane sigil

170 hours for arcane sigil ye

basically same rate as shadow

but adding +50 hours for getting ward

so now to get ward+arcane sigil is 230hours, and then you gotta grind eye of ayak

now your up to 260 hours

hmm i do like the 5 tick over 3 tick most places also

the weird thing about shadow grind also, is that you get tons of other good stuff while grinding it

meanwhile corp xD

[ionic tartan]

Let arcane stay dead. Corp needs rework of sorts before that boss becomes meta for gear grinds.

[earnest marsh]

hmm, even if you get the shields, you probly aint going to use them, or at best use them for a small time

what would you do

[ionic tartan]

Which in its current state is a good thing. It needs a rework or alternative first.

[earnest marsh]

ye i guess you can make shadow dps more, but make sigil have more effects for others use like standard spellbook, ancient, or haveing unlimted elemental runes forever (which i guess dont really matter)

[earnest marsh]

how is it good?

[ionic tartan]

Imagine is KQ got some item needed for bis, similar issue there where boss needs work first.

[earnest marsh]

the only bis with corp is the elysian spirit shield

i guess offhand sure, but still going to use shadow as bis

for arcane shield

and tob you probly not going to bring the shield

[ionic tartan]

Long grind alone isn't enough to justify meta bis items in osrs nowadays. The content needs to be challenging too.

[earnest marsh]

i mean, sure, but why arent we nerfing all cox items then

[ionic tartan]

Which would happen with that change to ward you said here: #game-update message

[earnest marsh]

cox prayers are way to insane for a afk raid

[ionic tartan]

Corp doesn't come anywhere close to cox

[earnest marsh]

yee, but also the rewards dont even anywhere close to cox

but cox is way more insane drops then tob and toa

basically has the best drops in the whole game

[ionic tartan]

Especially when your change with arcane ward would beat out shadow.

[earnest marsh]

and rigou is like 10 hour grind +

[ionic tartan]

Are you saying corp comes close to cox in difficulty?

[earnest marsh]

solo cox no, but team cox is braindead as corp

[ionic tartan]

Even royal titans are harder than corp.

[earnest marsh]

well

a bit harder then corp

[ionic tartan]

So would you like if giant mole or royal titans had a 170 hr grind for bis?

[earnest marsh]

in teams these are just braindead, dont even need to elarn anything

and olm is somewhat easy?

i found alot of people have hard time to learn it

i had not

skip and basically no mechanics

[ionic tartan]

Would you be ok if that drop to make ayak better than shadow was added to royal titan or mole drop table with a 170hr grind?

[earnest marsh]

vanguards is idk

i mean

still need a 1/8 to get ward

from purple

but ye i can see your point

but still, corp is more aids to do then any of these you said

but ye its not hard, just aids

like nex

[ionic tartan]

Yeah

[earnest marsh]

but nex has more mechanics

im not sure what they can do with elidans ward f

have more effects?

i rather have fang over ward any time

and eye of ayak is almost alredy as good as shadow

on low defence targets

[earnest marsh]

what about making elidisn ward f being able to cast thralls on standrad spellbook if you got the runes

feels weird

or maybe add book of the dead into it and now you got one more invnetory slot

[ionic tartan]

I feel like shadow and mage % rebalance needs to come first, it's a lot of complications when mage % damage is in a bad spot unless you’re using Shadow or Ayak.

Which also makes rebalancing other mage items also uncertain until we know the new numbers

[earnest marsh]

i mean, they could just buff the minimum hit on all mage staff no?

[ionic tartan]

Idk, maybe? Have to calc it, but I like % because we avoid the weapon speed issue of melee/range

It's just too low atm and also shadow (and now ayak) makes it harder to increase

[unreal plover]

big exaggeration

[earnest marsh]

idk, i think shadow is fine, at 1b without good gear, its worse then tbow and scythe

[unreal plover]

max mage ayak is 1dps less than shadow

[earnest marsh]

but gotta invest 2b+ for shadow being better then tbow

meanwhile tbow is insane even with black d hide

[ionic tartan]

Shadow is balanced as a megarare. But it also holds back progression in mage % damage for the rest of mage.

[earnest marsh]

i mean, mage was even in a worse spot pre shadow

it was litterly thrash

and they dint do anything

[ionic tartan]

Yep shadow doesn't need nerf. Just rebalance to let mage % be better

[earnest marsh]

offhand weapons is the easyest to buff

as shadow is two handed

and maybe just nerf eye of ayak 1max hit

[unreal plover]

wdym max mage is as expensive as a tbow

[earnest marsh]

ahh now it is ye xD

shadow is so cheap after delve

tbow become bis on delve, and eye of ayak becomes a subsitution to shadow

so its probly better to have tbow+ eye of ayak, then shadow+bowfa?

what happend to tbow price in 2022?

steady rising from 800m to 1.6b in 2024

but to be fair, sanguie staff should go to delve, and eye of ayak should go to tob

but powercreep

[tight brook]

everyone has more gold now

[unreal plover]

ayak is fine dropping from doom

i just wish the drops were balanced around deeper delves

[obsidian venture]

sra isn't that good lmao

marginal af unless doing vard

[winged mantle]

Idk sra is good where you don't need the speed of scythe and want to save on the scythe upkeep

Using sra for certain pethunts likr sarachnis and scurrius is pretty nice

[round lintel]

it is better than nox or blade tho

if you know how to use it

not better than scythe but not that far off

[obsidian venture]

not really a good investment for mains

[obsidian venture]

saving scy charges when you own a scythe is just weird imo

[round lintel]

blade is 125m + the charges and avernic like 50m. Nox hally almost 70m. sra is 200m or you can get it passively on your own doing dt2 bosses.

[winged mantle]

Iron

[obsidian venture]

Iron or main imo

[round lintel]

Scythe is 1.6b

[obsidian venture]

unless truly downbad

[winged mantle]

The amount of gp it would cost to pet hunt with scy is alot

[round lintel]

is almost 1m per hr to use on a main

[winged mantle]

400gp per blood rune

[obsidian venture]

regardless it's a very slight increase for 200m. In most cases you'd be better off spending gp on other pieces of gear or weapons

it's just a bad investment unless literally camping vard full time

[round lintel]

have you heard of oathplate? literally boosts the sra

[obsidian venture]

Also kinda irrelevant on main. Iron again if downbad

Yes even with oath

It's still better to use gp elsewhere

[round lintel]

is close on dps at colo

[winged mantle]

Depends on the mains priorities

[obsidian venture]

If asking for objective advice, sra isn't good. If doing whatever tf you want, sure get sra but by no means is it a good purchase

[round lintel]

for only 15% the price of scythe

[obsidian venture]

can stick to a tent whip no cap lmao

[narrow folio]

Araxxor

[winged mantle]

Sra has a place. Just depends on your budget and playstyle and goals

[obsidian venture]

where it sits in a prog is non-existant because folks have compared the dps with it

[round lintel]

sounds like you dont know how to use it, that is

[ember token]

sra is also almost 300m, not 200m

[obsidian venture]

it doesn't have a place currently

unless vard

[narrow folio]

It's annoying due to time between waves, you'd rather fang unless you know what you're doing

Also range is better for learners anyway

[obsidian venture]

You'd still tent

hybrid is good yes

[round lintel]

skill issues

[obsidian venture]

not skill issue, it's just not good

hally is better if anything

[winged mantle]

I've used hally, sra and scy. All are good, all have a place. Sra is annoying to use some places where there is downtime. You can't just say it's not good

It has good dps where you don't lose stacks

[obsidian venture]

You can say whatever you'd like but if you compare it to other options and gear for it's price and marginal dps increase, it's an overall bad upgrade

[winged mantle]

Soemtimes sra is barely worse dps than scy

How is that bad

[narrow folio]

Fang's better on waves iirc

[obsidian venture]

If you're in the waiting room for scy after double megas maybe, but that's usally never the case

as tbow is never 2nd

so kinda cooked

[winged mantle]

I'm just saying to discredit sra because you don't see it's value is bizarre

[narrow folio]

Even with oath. Diff is small so just take tent for boss i guess

[winged mantle]

It's still a solid upgrade

[obsidian venture]

I don't see value in something that cost a good amount to use and is in most cases a marginal dps increase

[narrow folio]

Is 10% marginal?

[obsidian venture]

10% on what

and for how much it cost again, there's generally better options

[winged mantle]

Good crush/ slash weapon that doesn't use charges

[obsidian venture]

if you're choosing between vambs and sra then ok?

[narrow folio]

It's generally 10% above nox

Assuming max stacks

[winged mantle]

Where you bring sra it is excellent

[obsidian venture]

ok and are speccing after each kill or waiting

[winged mantle]

Never spec

[obsidian venture]

Idk I talk with folks that compare different options and sra is never brought up unless literally vard

longer respawn times means getting back max stacks which in turn means needing more food

which in turn shortens trips unless you camp bf

which is also a bad investment in most cases

so

[narrow folio]

Colo isn't a great example due to wave times and the need to not get comboed out but otherwise you can afford to like

[hard axle]

as a main + a iron, u rarely get sra before jumping into tob unless you really suck that blade.

i've seen more irons get a blade over a sra for tob or just sit on whip.

[narrow folio]

Camp around 2 stacks lower

[hard axle]

cuz its roughly 100 ehb to get full soulreaper

[obsidian venture]

it's a horrible example yes

solving wave while taking dmg from stacks

hence why hally is the better option

[earnest marsh]

Ye, getting good weapons for whisperer and leviathan is pretty ass

[hard axle]

I rarely hear it get mentioned for cox cuz the downgrade for scythe is lance, tob downgrade is just tent whip/bp/shadow, toa is just fang/black gem now

[obsidian venture]

you really don't need a good weapon for whiperer

virtually 0 dmg boss

longer kills without shadow

[winged mantle]

Currently there is no reason for irons to go for blade over hally. If you passively get an sra ofc you'd use it till scy and then when you get a scy you can't use it everywhere as rune upkeep

[earnest marsh]

Same with toa tho basically a 0 damage raid

Well most bosses

[obsidian venture]

and what does that have to do with anything

[hard axle]

yeah, blade is the same boat as sra where it's more of a passive drop

people love their nhally lol

[obsidian venture]

sure it's low dmg and people still cope about pushing higher invo

[round lintel]

Btw this all started cuz i said whisp is horrible without shadow

[obsidian venture]

well

[round lintel]

never said camping sra is a must

[hard axle]

just ayak wispy

[obsidian venture]

I replied to you talking about how good sra is

when in fact it's not

that's all

[round lintel]

still bad with conflictions

sra is good if you have it

[hard axle]

huh

[obsidian venture]

it's not

[hard axle]

ayak with conflition is good

[obsidian venture]

I'm going off of calcs + price point

you're going off of what

[round lintel]

go get 10kc with ayak + confliction and show me your pb

and then do it with shadow

[obsidian venture]

there's not a prog with sra in it

[round lintel]

find the difference

[obsidian venture]

because it's not good

that's objective

now

[hard axle]

I could, but I also have volatile

[obsidian venture]

if you want to use it still, by all means

[hard axle]

volly spec > 1 shadow hit btw

[obsidian venture]

did they fix wiki calc

to show conf gaunt

[narrow folio]

I'd rather eye spec off of vibes

[hard axle]

wispy is like 10 mage defense

https://i.imgur.com/VWzmha0.png

ur better off accursed cuz that'll drain like 27 magic

[obsidian venture]

yeah what

[narrow folio]

Eye's like 10% worse in max

Not that bad

[hard axle]

if u truly have nothing else

then yeah, ayak spec

[narrow folio]

Ayak spec do the big damage too

[hard axle]

i think accursed is just as high

[obsidian venture]

which is why it's weird when they say ayak whisp is bad

like what are they basing it off of

[hard axle]

its like me trying to see if mage glyphic attenuation and it's just awful

[obsidian venture]

vibes and feelings

[hard axle]

19 minute run

[obsidian venture]

or calcs

[narrow folio]

Is there any way in gearscape to create a chart of dps versus defense roll?

[hard axle]

you can

but it's

[obsidian venture]

why doesn't wiki calc have it updated

[hard axle]

[ember token]

not yet but it's implemented here in a fork of the wiki calc https://dps.oriontools.dev/

[thick beacon]

what is barely worse? i havint looked much into calcs but id imagine scy is still atleast 10-10-15% better

[obsidian venture]

ty

[narrow folio]

and sra is 10% better than the next best

so it's like smack in the middle

[thick beacon]

is it really 10% better then blade/whip i thought it was like 5-6% at tob verzik

[narrow folio]

P2 it's 10% but a bit worse than that due to cycle

[thick beacon]

ye 5.3 tick

[narrow folio]

P3 axe is about 9%

so 5-6% doesn't seem right

I assumed TOO so numbers may vary

Maybe it assumes u brew to full after p1?

[narrow folio]

Team's fast enough u only lose like 2 stacks by p1 start from xarpus

[thick beacon]

ye i was just gona say like worst part about sra is gimmickyness of the weapon imo

[narrow folio]

Which assumes u do p3 xarp with axe also

[obsidian venture]

on avg 10s worse compared to shadow
for whisp (in max)

[ember token]

its ready (with a slight inaccuracy due to it not handling that the first hit can't have the passive), but because of that slight issue it wasnt added right away, and although everyone agrees its better to have it added very slightly wrong rather than not have it at all, it just hasnt been added yet

[obsidian venture]

Thank you

[hasty shard]

if you do it on a pvp world you can build spec off your teammates

thoughts

[hard axle]

I remember calcing this yeah and it assumed 5 stacks right off the bat because ramp up is a pain to calc

[thick beacon]

im just very anti sra but ye it doesint seem that bad then its just to long to get from eff perspective

[narrow folio]

I've heard that sra gets u killed at verzik but there isn't much downtime + u brew to full start of p2 then its the same like ?

[hard axle]

uh

well

[obsidian venture]

@narrow folio

[hard axle]

yes, it puts you into chance range if you risk p1

[narrow folio]

u can brew during p1

[hard axle]

and u lose 1-2 stacks between p1-p2

[narrow folio]

minimal loss

[obsidian venture]

wow looks like ayak isn't far off

[hard axle]

that is also true

[narrow folio]

so camp like 83 hp then p1 ends p2 start brew a couple times no prob

[earnest marsh]

And the effect on the braclet doesn't work in dps calc

[hard axle]

yep, there's a factual reason why ayak is nasty

[earnest marsh]

Not to much dpc increase

[obsidian venture]

this is the correct version

which works

and was supplied by @ember token

so barely 6s in min, 10s in max

[narrow folio]

ayak is disgusting and then u factor in usage cost and price

[hard axle]

well, shadow doesn't work on it either way, so even if it didn't work, it would be more than 8.1

[hard axle]

fucking 1 demon tear

[obsidian venture]

looks like above chatters were talking on vibes and feelings

[hard axle]

jagex what the actual fuck

[narrow folio]

even taking into acc 3t its cheap asf

[hard axle]

im tired of high tier gear using shit tier runes imo

[ember token]

i've just pinged the relevant person about getting it added to the main wiki dps calc

https://dps.oriontools.dev/ for now, this fork has granite hammer and confliction gauntlets implemented

[earnest marsh]

Nono, dps calc doesn't have the 50% accury on next attack after misses

[narrow folio]

gearscapes more convenient to use anyway once u learn it

wiki calc doesnt even work on my phone

[winged mantle]

Places where you don't lose stacks and can camp 1 style tbh

Aka afk pet hunting 😂

[narrow folio]

I assume gearscape is updated and it's in fact about 10% worse

[thick beacon]

im pretty biased but id only want it for verzik on iron thats a big use case to tbh

but for the time u have to spend on it just not a fan

[winged mantle]

That's fair

I'm coming from uses outside of tob

[thick beacon]

ye fair enough

[obsidian venture]

1.1 dps increase but barely 5s saved at sarachnis for example

for 287m

compared to a cudgel

[narrow folio]

71 max?

oh u assume masori top/bot?

[round lintel]

sarachnis is a crush weak boss not slash

[obsidian venture]

i put sra on crush

[obsidian venture]

karil to show budget

[round lintel]

why would you ever?

[obsidian venture]

because they mentioned it above

if you look at a basic prog it's not slotted in anywhere due to it's price and dps "increase"

as other gear options, for other styles even, are better

I say this even though I do like the sra

fun weapon, minimal af usage

[obsidian venture]

I used aranea over threads and k top bottom

ok 4s over bludgeon

[winged mantle]

Oh yeah true

[obsidian venture]

which is 20m

also inq helm due to lower price

you also aren't maintaining stacks for maybe 2 hits

[winged mantle]

1 hit usually

[obsidian venture]

word I wasn't sure of the timer

[winged mantle]

Saracnis has a 10 second respawn tjme

[obsidian venture]

either way, not ideal regardless

[winged mantle]

But ye it's a good weapon just clunky most places

[obsidian venture]

Could* be a good weapon

[winged mantle]

Could be better

[obsidian venture]

Current day it just isn't

yes

which is why, it won't be suggested for actual gear advice

even bowfa wasn't suggested till it got use in colo + akkha or rushing cms

[winged mantle]

It does have a place but for most it's too much to work around

[obsidian venture]

now akkha has ayak so it's the other 2 + inferno

[winged mantle]

In terms of sra why I mentioned afk pet hunting

[obsidian venture]

Sure but that's very niche for the common player

feel free to use it

[winged mantle]

I still think it's worth getting inbetween scy depending on content

[round lintel]

I mean if you are 3/4 after getting ultor, magus and venator

is worth going for it

maybe 2/4

[obsidian venture]

With other bosses in mind, other gear available for the price, it's not something you'd objectively suggest as an upgrade. Feel free to think whatever but I would rather invest in calcs + practical use

[winged mantle]

Pre scy I was grinding for mine, then spooned my scythe. I still find use for sra

[obsidian venture]

When suggesting stuff to others

[round lintel]

also virtus is good before ancestral

[obsidian venture]

yes

[round lintel]

you can go 100-1000 hrs dry for ancestral

[winged mantle]

Fair thoughts. Just on your point of "it's a bad weapon" was incorrect

[obsidian venture]

It's not incorrect though. You think it's better but as per my above point and if you talk with others who frequently give gear advice, it's not good to suggest

Respect the convo but you're not going to magically make sra better in the current meta or time

[winged mantle]

Sra is good but can be better. I mentioned afk pet hunting as it's clunky when used in a majority of content. In terms of recommendating gear upgrades sra is subjective on value/ specific to content. Most haven't used it but have formed an oppinion based on word of mouth or raw stats

Sra is better than it looks on pen and paper

That's been my experience

If someone is going to do content where the sra shines ofc I'll recommend it

If not then probs be "hold out for something else"

[minor whale]

Unfortunately it shines in so few places that suggesting a 300m gp dump into it seems unwise most of the time
Unless they're a strict never sell any gear to afford megas person, the time frame where you can afford SRA and no other weapon provides better benefit for the money (like ZCB), but they can't afford something like Scythe is just so small

[obsidian venture]

When giving advice on gear, we look at pricepoint + practical use. It's all been calced out. There's nothing but vard where it shines

As Pyro said, there's simply no room to buy it otw to a mega and for future rebuilds

Hence why it's never suggested. Mind you the gear progs are getting updated soon and I promise you no one is going to blink twice at putting the sra anywhere

[small anvil]

the key point in pyro's statement is that you'd rather buy other 300m items that are impactful

until you are at enough to rebuild with a mega

[obsidian venture]

😭

[minor whale]

It's unfortunately a weapon in between breakpoints of usefulness

It's basically the Ralos of melee weapons
It has a few uses, but there's almost always better things to buy first for the gp (might be less so now that Ralos is like 35m lmao)

[small anvil]

wait 35??

40ish rn but danngggg

[minor whale]

I

Yeah it's extremely sad

[small anvil]

it looked so hopeful before people figured out acid mechanics

[minor whale]

They let Colo get botted to fuck, and also gave Ralos so few uses

[small anvil]

are tonsils better at corp for trying to land first spec?

[hard axle]

now you just Ayak it

[earnest marsh]

is any uniqes other then quiver good from collo

[hard axle]

no lmao

[icy relic]

Nope

[chrome lantern]

Sunfire fanatic gear is ok but it's exactly what you'd expect and nothing more

For all your prayer bonus needs 🙃

[icy relic]

We've farmed 24 blood shards with alts using my sunfire sets

No credit to sunfire though

[hard axle]

ah, i didnt recognize the source of my blood shards

ty my good alt

[round lintel]

So, hot take

Make SRA bettter
Shadow damage uncapped and change the accuracy
Elidinis ward base better accuracy but keep current fortified

is this so?

[ember token]

lukewarm take

[meager flame]

tbh i do think SRA needs some help

specifically i think it does fine damage wise but

i think the burden of playing with it taking your hp away is just too much for what isn't even realistically the best option to begin with

its a bit silly in general because they were playing with the idea of weapons having downsides because that sounds like it could be interesting

but its actually not interesting at all when its #1 not the best and #2 the only weapon with a downside

[vivid ruin]

I dont like how it takes 5 full turns to charge it all of the way up

[meager flame]

like for example

when i was farming tob on my iron for a scythe

i had a SRA and a salad blade

i used both and honestly before it was over with i was just using the salad blade

the axe just makes you play on the edge of dying over a mistake that wouldn't kill someone using any other weapon and the upside just isn't good enough for that

at least imo

it feels a little better when the stakes are lower like if you're killing araxxor and you can kinda just ignore the health loss because its not putting you in real danger

i think it probably just shouldn't have the hp mechanic or if they want something like that to feel good and worth it

it just has to be stronger

[round lintel]

I wish they add a new mage off hand

[meager flame]

like dharok executed the idea better because yeah you can die

[round lintel]

that is not in 2 parts

[meager flame]

but dharok also drops nukes if you risk it and dont die

[round lintel]

and take 200+ hrds

[meager flame]

at least in its era when it was made

[icy relic]

SRA is also just straight up worse than saeldor in many parts of ToB

Like bloat and big nylo

[vivid ruin]

Mages book stats aren't that far behind arcane tbh

[round lintel]

Thats what I said, but Mages book is 2 hrs and arcane is 200+ hrs

and ward f

ward base is trash

you only use it if it gains max hit and dont need accuracy

[meager flame]

tbh

it really sucks when they include the nightmare and corp loot in anything

its not even really a problem with the items

its the drop rates and boss length

like take the arcane

[icy relic]

It's just maddening to me that Jagex's solution to corp being shit was not to make corp not shit

[meager flame]

honestly its fine just make getting an arcane less painful than crawling through glass and we're straight

[icy relic]

But to tie arcane to a raid drop lmao

[round lintel]

idk why they are so adamant to keep corp the way it is

[chrome lantern]

All because of generic reddit content "but muh bis magic shield would be devalued"

[round lintel]

either you are rich to pay people to boost you at corp

[chrome lantern]

When it had 0 value

[round lintel]

or suffer being an ironman

getting crashed by other toxic irons

[chrome lantern]

Crashing isn't really an issue I've ever had

[round lintel]

or sending like 20 dwh until it lands

[chrome lantern]

I chose option D

Be an iron but get mega spooned at Corp

[meager flame]

yeah nobody did anything to me when i was finishing corp CAs which isn't the largest length of time

but its a solid few hours

[chrome lantern]

Arcane 46 kc Ely 113 (still need holy elixir)

[round lintel]

thats very spooned

not everyone is spooned

[chrome lantern]

Yep

[round lintel]

in fact is more likely to go dry that get spooned

[meager flame]

idk why im even worried about it though im about to be at the delve until 2028

going on 300 deep delves and 0 uniques

[chrome lantern]

I think I'm on rate for 5 or so drops with 2 now

At doom

[icy relic]

For how much people cry about things crashing due to muh devaluation

Everything crashed anyway and content is still bad

[meager flame]

lol tbh

if you really think about it rs players are insane

they care about how much value their items hold like its their real life net worth

but because its rs it doesn't even matter they have the items and can play the game

they're just fixated on numbers that dont even mean anything

like lol

market crashes so what you still go get items and use them to kill things

[icy relic]

Playing iron has been great

Exactly

People buy stuff just to sit on it

[round lintel]

Again idk why they are so closed minded on changing corp

like Ely nobody uses it anymore

maybe few players

but even on most content release

nobody brings ely anymore

Arcane well... you need it to make bis mage off hand which shouldnt have been like that at all

and spectral useless

[icy relic]

Ely has some meme uses but at the end of the day

Jagex didn't release divine

Which was the good ss

[round lintel]

all I wish is that they make corp phosani like

instance solo

kinda more mechanics but dont need to go spec a million times

to make it a chicken

funny is that they nerfed the eye of ayak spec use on corp

so you couldnt use it

xd

[chrome lantern]

Did they?

[round lintel]

it was draining mage defence beyond 0

they called it a bug

[chrome lantern]

It was a bug

It was explicitly stated it wouldn't do that

When they were discussing it on release/poll blog

Not really a nerf more fixing a mistake

Aka a bug

[hard axle]

the problem with ely and as I've been told with divine

is that it doesn't reduce ALL damage sources

any AOE + "true damage" type attacks don't get reduced

it's only targetted attacks like whisperer autos or nex autos

if it reduced all damage, ely would actually be insane

flick it on before big damage

[icy relic]

Divine was definitely OP and I have no real dog in that particular fight

But they did release corp in a really incomplete state without its accompanying quests (no summ) and without its best drop

And acted like people have some nostalgic attachment to that butchered thing

[hard axle]

i feel like back then we didn't have as much aoe damage

so divine definitely would've fallen off similarly

[icy relic]

They balanced around damage mitigation later on

With QBD and stuff

[hard axle]

fix ely ty

[icy relic]

They aren't unsolvable problems but then people started crying about oneshots

[hard axle]

would be goated as fk

[idle rapids]

Pretty sure thats slower anyways

[round lintel]

just make corp better

Scurrius has a better system than corp

[idle rapids]

I dont rlly mind the solo or mass method and its boostable too

A lot of bosses could be improved tho we should get echo KQ to replace the one we have now

[chrome lantern]

Some of the worst updates have been from nostalgia bait unfortunately

Look at Soul Wars, Corp, WGS (synapses are good but everything else about TDs and that quest was awful ported slop of a quest), Nex, list goes on

[round lintel]

i honestly dont see any problem with wgs or tds

everything else you mentioned

has been horrible

Now hot take again they should just delete TOA and scrap sailing

there I said it

[ember token]

swing and a miss

[meager flame]

it actually wasn't

mathematically its actually almost the same shield as the ely

its one of those special rs things where a bunch of people cant do math and for whatever reason just like

lol got stuck on the green one being better

we almost didn't get the AGS in osrs for the same reason

fyi the divine is better but its actually very close

basically if people think divine would be too broken to be in the game

there pretty much is no reasonable space for them to accept the ely

but osrs polls being what they are we're here lol

[round lintel]

they should put the question with a sailing question and itll pass

[meager flame]

im pretty sure if you actually provided math now in 2025

it would just straight up pass

[round lintel]

Something like "Do you want sailing to be released on Oct 2025 and add the divine spirit shield?"

[meager flame]

people were a little less informed in general back when they really talked about divine

[round lintel]

I will pass with 90%

[chrome lantern]

I don't think the math really matters

People would pass anything anyway unless you poll wrathmaw

[meager flame]

ya its just the old polls that failed are just

painful because it was all about perception

lmao like

[chrome lantern]

I could see it having pushback because it previously failed though

But I've given up on polls tbh

Still going to vote but I know it doesn't matter

[meager flame]

they said no we cant have divine thats so op but yeah let me get the blue enivid that's 1% worse

thats completely balanced

lmao

realistically if we actually had them both now

i would run a divine most of the time over an ely but situationally one would actually be a much smarter choice over the other

like if you were going to wear a shield in pvp you would go divine

if you were going to tank a super long bandos trip or something

ely 100% of the time

divine just has a marginal edge in total effective hp with our inventory sizes

but if you can heal yourself and your prayer is limiting you an ely would be better

[hard axle]

did aoe actually get reduce or no

[meager flame]

idk if there is anywhere to get this info from now but i'd be very surprised if they didn't mitigate the exact same things

[round lintel]

btw do you guys think or feel twitcher gloves are useless and dont work?

[icy relic]

It had the consistency factor

At the cost of prayer

But averaged out to be about the same

And consistency is really important for defensive tools

[meager flame]

only in pvp really

the rest of the time you're in pvm where you expect these to average out over hundreds of hp worth of healing easily

[icy relic]

But regardless divine by itself was not even the biggest offender

It was the fact that damage mitigation existed in RS2 along with gano and SoA

And we now have a baby version of that with Ayak

Very few people were max or had max gear on the eve of EoC so it's not surprising people have weird stigma about certain things from that era without understanding why they were in the game or what problems Jagex were trying to solve

[hard axle]

so basically no since ely doesnt do that

[hard axle]

The elysian spirit shield has a 70% chance of reducing the damage the player receives by 25%.

so basically same shit and doesnt' work

😭

[winged mantle]

it feels like they work

[heavy ledge]

I always use them at redwoods and birdhouses so I don’t have anything to compare against, but it does seem like they work at both (I know they’re not supposed to work at birdhouses)

[round lintel]

I mean i dont feel any difference when using it for clues at redwoods

and certaintly never got any god eggs when i selected it while doing teaks

[heavy ledge]

Idk, it sounds like we’re both talking based on vibes lol so not much to counter with

[round lintel]

1m xp isnt enough?

[heavy ledge]

If you really want god eggs, I’d do birdhouses. They take about 1-2 mins each run and I get an egg at least like every 5 or so runs I’d say

[round lintel]

i did get other type of nests

but no eggs one

at teaks

[heavy ledge]

God eggs are very uncommon at trees I think

*very rare

[heavy ledge]

Plus decent gp/hr and good Hunter xp/hr

[heavy ledge]

I meant more like neither of us has actual data. Like I’m p anal about making sure I got gloves on, so I can’t compare it to much. But it seems like it matters when I forget to switch between clues/eggs between redwoods/birdhouses (with both, which is weird since gloves aren’t supposed to effect birdhouses)

[round lintel]

i did redwoods to 99 on my main

[heavy ledge]

Also I afk at redwoods a lot so I’m at like 60m wc xp

[round lintel]

so i know how many clues i got per hr per amount of logs

[heavy ledge]

*65m

[round lintel]

and with elite diary completed

[heavy ledge]

Oh I didn’t expect you to actually be keeping tbh lol

[round lintel]

anyways Forestry is just a way to not afk while wc

[earnest marsh]

What do people think about forestry? Good bandage or should we made new better content to woodcutting like sulliceps

[chrome lantern]

0 redeeming qualities

Log basket is good but forestry didn't need to be the way to get it

[worldly valve]

great idea but they fucked up the event radius

im also kinda on the side of there being too many events

but that doesn't mater much after a few hours

[earnest marsh]

like when it first came out, i just did bankstanding with events. it was nice, but if woodcutting was like that, it would be better to just delte the skill kekw

[earnest marsh]

ye log basket is nice, but ye

feels like event is some private sheet

and now its like eeeh, three events an hour xD

[minor whale]

Forestry is fine
You can just entirely not interact with it and still get the benefits of no longer competing for trees and a boost to communal gathering

They nerfed it into oblivion for too long but it's moderately ok now events wise

[earnest marsh]

trees are shit now also

i guess redwood got the nice buff

[minor whale]

What

[earnest marsh]

hoiw muhc xp an hour is afk yew trees now?

or maples

and you almost dont even use the resorces from it

[minor whale]

Trees didn't get nerfed in afk XP/hr at all, and were made more afk

Forestry is just another way of interacting with them other than "click tree and wait"

But afk methods are now more consistent afk and same/slightly better XP if chopping with other people

[earnest marsh]

every year

some method get worse and worse

from bosses drop skilling resroces

or make the content irrelevant from you dont even need to do it anymore

to amking new woodcutting methods

[minor whale]

A method not changing is not the same as a method getting worse
Just because rc XP can reach 400k XP/hr doesn't mean that suddenly making lavas is worse

[earnest marsh]

how so?

after seplcuhre came out, it just made rooftops worse

hmm, i guess i can see your opinon

hard to give an example

[icy relic]

People still do rooftops because sepulchre has a learning curve

I think VM is another of those cases where it's just way better on paper than what people usually do

But because it's hard to get into, nobody does it

[idle rapids]

true

[earnest marsh]

ye hard to get into doesnt really mean much in terms of ehp

[icy relic]

There's a bit of a saying in the medical field

The best diet is the one you can stick to

I think RS really embodies this

Some shit might be better but it's hard to sustain it for a long session

[earnest marsh]

i think sep is fun

there is no way i can play rooftops for 3+ hours

but i enjoyed 4-6 hours alot in sep

+92

[icy relic]

I hated sepulchre until I learned it, then I loved it and got 92-99 agi in a week

[earnest marsh]

so ye eveyone has diffrent gameplay sure

but ye, rooftop for me become worse when they added sep

[idle rapids]

Sounds like you didn't enjoy rooftop agility in the first place

[earnest marsh]

sure if someone dont like sep

but still would make rooftop worse as sep is better rewards, multiskilling and xp hour, even if you dont wanna do it

[icy relic]

Rooftops are already a huge improvement from when I maxed agi in RS2

[idle rapids]

Its also more effort to do sep

[icy relic]

When there were no rooftops and no sep

[idle rapids]

Which is why you get more exp...

[earnest marsh]

yep, i would proboly ignore agility if wildy agility or sep wasnt out

[idle rapids]

I think agility is pretty balanced, there's ardy rooftops, swimming, werewolf, priff rooftop, brimhaven, or sep