game-update

[sterile breach]

tyvm

[hard axle]

Yep, this shit is a problem for void-using learners at bloat too

[bronze kernel]

Running around with your pants off?

[hard axle]

yes

that's what boaty did back then

[alpine sluice]

delve boss isnt phasing like it used to. its just launching abilities and phasing sometime random after 75%

[true talon]

everytime they try to make the phase work, they make it worst lol

hopefully they delete the orb phase by accident an dont add it back

[meager flame]

its fine they're going to learn what cooldowns on abilities are eventually

they'll just keep struggling for now

[true talon]

Yea when they figure out the boss should be push to your limits deep and not be an autist pray flick nightmare with no cooldowns or rythm.

[meager flame]

i mean honestly they can leave things fast they just need to

[true talon]

boss isnt hard, just overwhelms you with so much stuff you need to be doing.

[meager flame]

figure out that some abilities that you want your boss to do should put other abilities on a cooldown long enough

that they cannot overlap

and then figure out how to do priority systems for the boss so it keeps doing things

and once they really figure that stuff out

they'll stop having stupid overlaps or weird phase pushes

[true talon]

grubs creep ing in, baiting rocks, flicking 2 boulders, dealing with melee punish, dealing with acid, dodging falling rocks, setting up orb pillar things that are awful. staying with a really janky small orb that doesnt follow player pathing.

So many things overlap that make no sense

[narrow folio]

Transmogging void skirt is actual tech. Woah.

[chrome lantern]

Honestly

I realized that once I could add a single action to the 6t flicking

I was completely fine

Like clicking back on boss or clicking one of the volatile earth

[hard axle]

the boaty stripper tech was better

[hard axle]

I actually started filling in a lot more actions while doing the b6b flicks

cuz I realized how simple the timing was

[chrome lantern]

Yeah

I get 1-2 usually but have noticed gradual improvement

[chrome lantern]

I do have one serious issue with the new sailing poll

They went to great lengths to break out all the potions and food into individual questions

But the entirety of cannonballs is a single question

It should be at least 3

Voting on new cannonball types, voting on new cannonball variants (the chain shot and burn stuff they proposed), and then the faster cannonball forge

I would vote no to the first two and yea to the third (and cballs would still be too slow)

[tacit wharf]

i can see a seperate question for the variants but no reason for one for the different types of cannon balls and cannons

[chrome lantern]

But I don’t see any way that tiered cannonballs don’t become a disaster to make and maintain, and turbo expensive

The two cball variants are just bloat with no real reason to exist while tripling the number of cannonball variants

[tacit wharf]

as for the faster cannonball making, its going to be a problem if you use them at the same rate as you use the dmg runes from spells, 1 per shot

[tacit wharf]

this just opens up more design space later on for monster encounters at sea

and while u do get 4 cannonballs normally from 1 bar, the variants are going to cut that down to 2 +2 secondary per bar

nice little item sink for ore/bars

[chrome lantern]

That sounds horrid

Even worse than I feared if that were true lmao

[tacit wharf]

give u a use for all those mith bars that everything drops

[chrome lantern]

Oh it is explicitly listed

Yeah that sounds really awful

[chrome lantern]

Nobody uses mith arrows, why would anyone make or use mith cballs

Cball making is horrendously slow and still awful if they double it as proposed

[tacit wharf]

well it would be quadrupled from normal cball making

u have the 8ball mold wouch doubles and then doubled again by this ner furnace for 4x

[chrome lantern]

I have done double mould

It’s still incredibly slow

And double that

[tacit wharf]

so do it while u watch a movie

[chrome lantern]

Will still be incredibly slow

[true talon]

i kill shit for cannon balls, never make them.

[chrome lantern]

I usually don’t

Because it’s incredibly slow

[chrome lantern]

I usually PvM while watching things

Why would I do the same thing I usually do but more boring

There’s like 500 better things to afk

Also a 3k gp rune cannonball material cost sounds pretty awful with 100% usage

[tacit wharf]

well lucky for u, u can make the mith so u dont waste so much money then

:thinksmart

[chrome lantern]

My point is

They’re lumping so many things together into one question

[tacit wharf]

my point is, some days, im not sure who complains more, u or tassili

[chrome lantern]

And most of it is just, “let’s take the existing problem of making cballs sucking, and make it 50x worse by adding new variants”

Double cballs required for variants makes it even worse by nullifying faster production rate

[true talon]

they wont even allow dragon cannon balls to be crafted, so another resource for irons to struggle to obtain

[chrome lantern]

This is also true

And nonirons can spend 20k per cball or whatever they’ll cost

And keep zero

With no Ava’s

[true talon]

"we will make them 1/1000 from salvaging shipwrecks and you will get 10-15 with a small chance of a kraken coming up out the water and destorying all your loot"

[hasty shard]

using the same cballs as the multicannon would be braindead tbh

we should be making like, grapeshot for sailing cannons imo

probably = to the amount of knives you can smith/h id say

[gleaming horizon]

Hmm…. Where to leave feedback saying “I want skillcape C’s color scheme but with the Anchor from option D”

[tacit wharf]

probably sailing discord

[gleaming horizon]

Aha, I see- thanks lol

[zenith pike]

@austere mulch can you explain 3t p1 for me pleae

[austere mulch]

With instant inventory plugin, you can drop the staff the same tick you unequip it, which is otherwise not possible. Aka you’re now dropping the staff 1t sooner than you otherwise could

Tick1: spec+drop staff same tick
Tick2: staff is on floor, next player clicks to pick it up
Tick3: staff appears in invent, click equip
Repeat

[zenith pike]

tyty

[modern moth]

I've just read about some disturbing changes apparently coming to the Slayer skill in the "Summer Sweep-Up: Slayer & Misc" blog from July 18, such as having a unique block list per slayer master. Were these changes polled? Are they being added without a poll? (if so, why?) Are they going to be polled?

[frail bough]

No, not polled because it's not polled and they don't plan on polling.

[modern moth]

absurd

[analog crow]

Were you planning on voting no?

[modern moth]

If it had been lumped as a single question "do you want all the changes from the blog" then absolutely would vote no. if it had been more specific, then some yes and some no. Definitely don't think a separate block list per master is appropriate

such a drastic change has no place bypassing a poll

[winged mantle]

it's almost like current slayer is awful and they deem this as not needing a pol

[modern moth]

the skill has had nonstop buffs and additions since osrs launch. the xp rates and rewards from the skill now are frankly already insane, it doesn't need further buffs

[narrow folio]

Feel like they should've comboed that with a nerf to Turael

[modern moth]

some change like that, at least, would have made this upcoming change less appalling

[narrow folio]

Now I feel stupid for wanting to keep my streak

[modern moth]

break your streak and you will attain clarity

[fossil epoch]

Personally i am very much looking forward to the slayer update, and there is no way it wouldnt pass a poll anyway

People have been asking for MORE than what we are getting now

[modern moth]

separate block list for wildy might be okay, but no way in hell is it balanced for each master to have their own individual block list

[winged mantle]

what's your worry with this?

[fossil epoch]

Well the only "problem" is that tureal skipping is becomming i believe its like 30-40% better.
They should have instead made it so that you would have more of a reason to not tureal skip to be efficient.
However slayer is by far the worst skill to train early on, and any time you need to train slayer to get xp, rather than just doing the fun bosses linked with it. Its a horribly slow skill

[modern moth]

it never worked that way, it doesn't need to work that way. we've been fine for over a decade with how it is now, not broke don't fix. Also, combining this would make Turael skipping ever faster

[fossil epoch]

So it desperately needed improvements

The skill is NOT fine lol

[winged mantle]

the slayer master specific block lists will only apply if you're getting a task from that master. youc an't build a mega blocklist

[modern moth]

brother you can barrage abby demons the skill is insanely fast

[modern moth]

yes i'm aware

[winged mantle]

giving people more choice is good

[fossil epoch]

you cant barrage abby demons till 85 slayer

[modern moth]

and in 2013 you couldn't barrage them at all... and the skill was better for it

[winged mantle]

on an iron it's an f tier skill till you can speed it up. even then it's rough

[modern moth]

dont care about ironmen

[fossil epoch]

Slayer is not hard to train later on.
It sucks for a huge number of the levels in gettint the skills up

[modern moth]

you play your limited account build don't come crying

[winged mantle]

nice opnion that doesn't account for 25% of the playerbase 🙂

[fossil epoch]

dont care about your opinion either

[winged mantle]

can't disreguard the way someone engages with the game and input yours as more valid 🙂

[fossil epoch]

Well they can complain all they want i guess, the change is coming this month or start of the next

[modern moth]

this is a huge buff to tureal skipping, it's way too powerful

let's just not poll anything anymore and see how that goes? just move the leprachauns closer to the herb patches for a third time why dont we?

[fossil epoch]

"i dont get what i want, so lets remove all other polling aswell" kinda vibe is always what people tend to go for

[modern moth]

why's that not okay but this is? that was a straight buff to farming

with no draw backs

[fossil epoch]

This is an integrity change, and they never get polled. Never have been, and jagex is improveing a skill that is terrible early game, to a point where the way to do the skill was "Dont do the skill, wait till 85 combat" which proves its just very bad.
I agree that they shouldnt have just made Tureal that much better, but rather improve other aspects though

[modern moth]

they could make any change and call it an "integrity change" and skip polling, which is concerning, it's not like leaving the system as is is game breaking or otherwise allows skipping a bunch of intended mechanics

[fossil epoch]

They could, but they arent.
We were also told about it WAAAAY in advance that certain changes would happen. Followed by a blog about it where people could react to the information, and they changed stuff that had a lot of backlash.
The fact you learned about it at the time its almost ready for release isnt jagex fault though

But yeh, this would pass a poll with flying colours regardless

[modern moth]

i dont think so

[restive siren]

Did bro just say the skill is "insanely fast"

[tawny tide]

We don’t even think about you

[restive siren]

But yeah this would pass no problem

[normal tiger]

slayer is insanely fast kekw

[modern moth]

there's really no logical reason to have a block list per master aside from wildy slayer, because as you progress through the skill you can just replace old blocks with new ones. if you are gonna switch between any of the late game masters, then you pay the price by setting up a block list for any non-shared tasks

[modern moth]

the feeling is mutual

[tawny tide]

Thankful that Jagex cares more about irons than mains these days 🙏

[modern moth]

? it is

[tawny tide]

Economy be damned

[restive siren]

Idk what game you are playing but even high eff slayer is one of the slowest skills to train by far

[winged mantle]

if you block something at one master, it won't be blocked at another

[normal tiger]

Efficient duradel caps at like 85k/hr, krystillia caps at like 110k/hr if you're doing mega sweat methods

[modern moth]

i don't know if you've just been not reading my messages? i clearly understand how the change is going to work

[normal tiger]

Are agility, mining, and fishing insanely fast to you?

[modern moth]

85k/hour is incredibly fast for any skill

barring production skills

[winged mantle]

I read your messages they are just nonsensical

[modern moth]

"if you block something at one master, it won't be blocked at another " YES that is what i DONT WANT

[icy relic]

speed doesn't mean anything and is an arbitrary rate set by jagex

[modern moth]

i've made that very clear

[tawny tide]

I am glad you are only one vote.

Bad takes.

[normal tiger]

Name me one slower skill

aside from rc

[tawny tide]

Was it one blog or two ago that they mentioned ironmen votes being weighted heavier than mains?

[winged mantle]

crazy

[modern moth]

i dont really keep up with the new skilling methods i just know they are too fast i maxed over 6 years ago

[tawny tide]

Hang on I’m gonna go look

[normal tiger]

except even rc caps out around 85k at lavas without runners

[modern moth]

i just want the game to be the best it can

[winged mantle]

the game has changed a lot in 6 years

[icy relic]

rc is 100k now with aether catalysts

[normal tiger]

so you don't keep up with new skilling methods but you're confidently incorrect that slayer is an insanely fast skill?

[modern moth]

slayer isn't a skilling method

that's not the gotcha you think it is

[restive siren]

Slayer not a skill confirmed

Wrap it up boys

[icy relic]

slayer is a minigame not a skill

we're relitigating this again

[normal tiger]

"85k/hour is incredibly fast for any skill"

[modern moth]

well, it's an activity of some sort that's for sure

any non-production skill^

don't misrepresent me

[normal tiger]

do you count literally every other skill in the game as production

[icy relic]

people like getting so far up their buttholes about one minute aspect of one thing

[normal tiger]

Because literally every other skill in the game has relatively accessible methods that surpass 85k/hr

[restive siren]

Even 85k requires high slayer to begin with, very high combats and decent gear

[modern moth]

that's insane

[normal tiger]

And yeah 85k/hr assumes reasonable maximum effort

[modern moth]

i think that is kind of fast for a gathering skill

[dark raven]

I have 30m slayer and I wouldn’t care if they made slayer 200k xp an hour. It literally doesn’t devalue my achievement at all.

Also bro you’re talking about the 1% who sweat enough to get 80k+ an hour.

There’s zero skill expression in tureal skipping and this update makes it so you can block the worst tureal tasks without unblocking awful duradel and konar tasks, and you’re complaining about “muh xp rates” lmao???

[normal tiger]

turael skipping isn't even a buff to late game slayer xp/hr

you profit points

[restive siren]

Ye 85k is really insanely generous for the average population

[dark raven]

Exactly it just makes it less miserable to shoot for a task to do CAs with or if you’re feeling like a certain mob or boss. It benefits everyone except for people who think we should never improve xp rates of anything

They could increase xp of all skills across the board to double what they are now, and maxing would still be an insane grind

[normal tiger]

yeah realistically most people get like 20-50k/hr because half the point of slayer is to take it easy

the vast majority of people aren't sweating swapping gear + grabbing new tasks + getting to new tasks

[modern moth]

even if you don't think so, it IS a devalue of your achievement(s); if they handed out every dragon tier leagues trophy to every player, my achievements would become worthless

[modern moth]

well this is indicative of a bigger issue, with certain tasks being "required" for certain CAs, or giving much greater odds

[dark raven]

That’s a dumb comparison. Getting dragon trophy is fun, doing slayer for an extra 200 hours to 99 is not fun

[modern moth]

dragon tier is NOT fun

its more tedious than main game

[dark raven]

Well then why are you playing this game lmao

I see you’re just a troll

[modern moth]

for the achievements?

[dark raven]

Sorry bud I play games for fun

[tawny tide]

https://tenor.com/view/fishing-sassy-gay-choreography-lgbt-gif-22409823

[modern moth]

i player other games for fun, rs is not a fun game

[tawny tide]

This channel is just the bait channel bro

[modern moth]

?

[tawny tide]

People just come in here and say wild shit

[normal tiger]

Anyways

Drift net fishing still gives clue bottles instead of boxes please fix

And no there was nothing to suggest that this was intentional

[modern moth]

well it started with me sincerely wanting to know if these slayer changes were polled, were going to be polled, or were an integrity change, then you bad opinion lot start attacking me for having a different vision for the game

[tawny tide]

Irons can’t driftnet fish so Jagex won’t care

[modern moth]

?

^

[dark raven]

Having a different vision is fine, but acting like there’s any accomplishment in doing slayer for an extra couple hundred hours is wild

[modern moth]

most of runescape's achievements are time based

[normal tiger]

I didn't attack you lmao I corrected you on something verifiably incorrect

[modern moth]

what was that?

[normal tiger]

lmao

[modern moth]

was it because i said slaye was insanely fast?

that's sort of subjective so i don't know how you could call it verifiably incorrect, if that's what your'e talking about

[normal tiger]

"85k/hour is incredibly fast for any skill barring production skills"

It's literally the slowest skill in the game

And 85k/hr is not incredibly fast for any skill

[modern moth]

it is incredibly fast, you even said afterward that average player probably does 20-50k/hour

i believe 85k is pretty fast for a gathering skill

which i would categorize slayer as

[normal tiger]

every other gathering skill has higher or significantly higher methods

So you're comfortable stating that every gathering skill is incredibly fast?

[modern moth]

for the most part, nowadays, sort of yea

[normal tiger]

And you also consider the realistic rates of 20-50k for slayer as being "insanely fast"?

[modern moth]

no

50-70k / hour rates are pretty reasonable and good for game health

well thats a bit fast for any low effort slayer method

[normal tiger]

So for 99% of the game, slayer isn't "insanely fast"

[modern moth]

but it can be if you want it to

[dark raven]

What’s good for game health is having people think slayer isn’t a waste of time before they get high combat stats, which omg this does no way

[normal tiger]

you consider a 20% increase to be the difference between 'reasonable and good for game health' and 'insanely fast'?

[dark raven]

You’re mad they’re not polling something that would pass at 90% yes

[modern moth]

the game has grown insanely since launch and just hitting new peaks, i think slayer is pretty good as it is

[dark raven]

And wondering why nobody takes you serious

[restive siren]

Talking about your subjective feeling about an exp rate doesnt make much sense if its implemented in an ecosystem of 22 other skills, all of which are slower

Faster

Mb

[modern moth]

some skills can be slow and some can be fast thats okay isn't it

[dark raven]

No

[restive siren]

Absolutely

[normal tiger]

"85k/hour is incredibly fast for any skill barring production skills"

[dark raven]

Slow skills are miserable I’ll die on that hill lmao

[modern moth]

should we just disregard the opinion of someone because you think it's the minority opinion?

[normal tiger]

This is literally you verbatim

[modern moth]

yes

[restive siren]

People took issue in your statement that its insanely fast which is just factually incorrect even if you feel that way

[normal tiger]

So every other skill in the game is incredibly fast

[restive siren]

Slayer will still be one of the slowest after this update

[dark raven]

Correct. Glad we’re on the same page

[modern moth]

okay, maybe i misrepresented my opinion, i mean it is insanely fast relative to 2013

[modern moth]

not productive

[restive siren]

Thats a better statement yes

[modern moth]

and i think the skill was fine then

[normal tiger]

lol

[restive siren]

But the fact of the matter is that all skills will become gradually faster to train as all gear will become gradually better, in essence thats the only thing jagex can do to introduce New content and Balance old

[modern moth]

thats unfortunately accurate

[dark raven]

Bro wants to go back to 2013 where gwd was the pinnacle of pvm. Nobody is stopping you from doing that. Let everyone else enjoy the benefits of the update

[restive siren]

I mean some people will probably disagree but imo at some point they just have to take the route of 110s/120s in skills

[modern moth]

i haven't really shared my opinions on pvm here so idk why you brought that up

i was just talking slayer/xp rates

[normal tiger]

technically, most of the high xp methods i.e. 1.5t/3t already technically existed in 2013, people just didn't really widely know about them/use them

[restive siren]

Otherwise the game doesnt make as much sense in a couple of years

[normal tiger]

but in any case nobody really cares about achievements anyhow

[modern moth]

yes

[normal tiger]

there's like 70k maxed players or something

[modern moth]

tick manip makes me sick in the stomach

[normal tiger]

with how long the game has existed for and how much sweatier players have gotten, being maxed is no longer really an exclusive or amazing accomplishment

[modern moth]

yes

[normal tiger]

It's mostly for personal pleasure

[nocturne solstice]

id definitely disagree on that 110-120s prediction

[modern moth]

if the game runs in perpetuity its an inevitability

theres only so much you can do with new gear scaling up to 99

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think so at all

[modern moth]

i hope you are right however

[dark raven]

Yeah true even slayer isn’t close to needing a 120. They can add 4 new slayer bosses up to 99 and countless more between 1-95

[restive siren]

Eh its somewhat inevitable. Sticking with 99s for 10 more years is the equivalent of introducing more bis gear every year but not developing harder pvm content

[winged mantle]

I would vote no to skills above 99

[normal tiger]

There's also not necessarily a need for every slayer boss to be higher than the previous or have a unique unlock level

[nocturne solstice]

Games like monster hunter and guild wars 2 have players "stuck" at certain levels and have other ways to make the game more challenging and interesting as well as ongoing rewards.

[modern moth]

AT monsers suck 🙂

[nocturne solstice]

Id say that's factually untrue just from looking at OSRS updates. Colosseum is challenging, Doom is challenging, the awakened DT2 bosses are challenging. They dont feel restricted by the 99 cap at all.

[dark raven]

Jagex doing more to convince people to do something besides skill is good for the game. They’ve really nailed it the last few years.

[nocturne solstice]

They are still developing and have developed harder pvm content

Higher stats just means "harder" pvm content are just bosses with more HP which is the most boring way to add difficulty.

[normal tiger]

Tbf some people would prefer that over the current approach to difficulty

i.e. 'do a ton of shit really quickly'

But yeah there is plenty of new hard content

[nocturne solstice]

Of course, i've no doubt there are people that would prefer mechanically easier bosses

[dark raven]

There’s plenty of those though, and they add multiple every year

[nocturne solstice]

Gemstone crab is definitely one of them

[normal tiger]

where gemstone crab pet

[dark raven]

Scurrius, royal titans, Huey, amox, all piss easy

[normal tiger]

true

I meant specifically for pushing the envelope on the endgame

though araxx was relatively easy as well and yama was pretty in line with everything else

[dark raven]

CAs were rough at first but rn its by far my favorite goal to chase. Halfway to GM from master tier

[restive siren]

Wasnt really talking about pvm, yes old challenge content is still difficult but it definitely got heavily nerfed by gear and New consumes over the years and will continue to become easier. Thats why they have and will introduce harder and harder content to keep up with Player Power. Im saying that there will be a point where some skill Training is so fast they will have to introduce the equivalent of a harder boss (so a higher lvl cap) to compensate and make the skill still feel meaningful

[normal tiger]

My main concern is where they're going to go with gear upgrades

There's yet to be a precedent for powercreeping raids equipment

[restive siren]

Well it will happen

But yeah those polls will be interesting

[normal tiger]

But will the playerbase let it happen?

[restive siren]

I believe so

[normal tiger]

or will it be upgradescape

[modern moth]

the playerbase let gravestons happen, they will vote for anything at this point..

[restive siren]

Yeah tbow is iconic but after how ever many years id like to think people will want to be free of cox at some point

[tiny epoch]

shoutout the playerbase for letting gravestones happen

[dark raven]

Anything that makes the game easier or more accessible will pass a poll. Jagex has to do a good job to not overstep themselves, and they’ve done great imo

Some gatekeepers will get their feathers ruffled but that happens in literally every mmo. Just smile and wave at them

[normal tiger]

I think one major problem is that some people consider making something more fun as equivalent to making something easier

Even if the time/'effort' required to achieve an end remains the same, if the new method is more pleasant to do, people will complain that it's easyscape

[nocturne solstice]

If you're not talking about PVM what did you mean by your analogy? Maybe I just misunderstood.

I'm still not sure what you're basing your predictions on since that point where "some skill trianing is so fast they will have to introduce the equivalent of a harder boss to compensate to make the skill feel meaningful" just doesn't make sense to me as an analogy. If you're talking about making non combat skills feel meaningful well even something like cooking with 3m/hr rates feels really meaningful when it guarantees cooking success and is a step towards max cape.

You dont make a skill more meaningful by making the grind longer. You make it more meaningful by making it more useful.

Now that I think about it, cooking is a fantastic example.

• It's not as useful now because players at late game use more brews/restores than food
• XP rates have been "powercrept" and is insanely high
  They've made cooking more useful and meaningful now with
• Hunter food that have additional effects + now BiS single click healing item
• Currently being polled new fish meats with additional effects

[normal tiger]

unless I'm mistaken, wines have always been a viable buyable cooking method

[nocturne solstice]

For sure it has

[normal tiger]

Some people hate that 99s don't mean anything in rs3 but I don't entirely find it catastrophically wrong for them to have given more weight to 'time doing content' as opposed to 'time it takes to get a skill to the necessary level to do content'

At a certain point, most of the extant playerbase has long had the skill requirements to do any new content, and by leaving skill rates untouched, every time you develop something new you're effectively making a choice of making content for the extant playerbase or making content for the newer playerbase

If for balance purposes you're already assuming that the vast majority of players have already met the requirements, then making meeting those requirements easier doesn't really meaningfully affect the exclusivity of the content

The reason I say all this is that I think there's plenty of room for OSRS to just add more shit without worrying about it being higher and higher level

[modern moth]

i feel like so much content that gets added is DOA for me because idc about skilling methods or activities for skills i'm already 99 in

[normal tiger]

rs3 added a bunch of shit where the skill requirement was basically not a factor and the value out of the activity was what you get out of it rather than the xp you get out of it

[modern moth]

even if i vote yes for it becase i think it will be good for the game, i have no reason to engage with it unless i want clog (i dont)

[normal tiger]

I feel like osrs could very easily take a similar path and it'll be a very long time before pushing 110/120s becomes a necessity

[modern moth]

just add more new skills

🙂

[normal tiger]

just add invention

[modern moth]

no 🙁

[winged mantle]

no to 110/120s, no to invention 🙂

yes to some kind of disassembly skill 🙂

[normal tiger]

mostly joking with invention

[winged mantle]

ah

[normal tiger]

it'd be absolutely miserable in osrs when you take into considering how long most shit takes to get

[winged mantle]

but yeah anything over 99, people will feel like they have to do it

there's a lot of skills i'm glad stop at 99

[dark raven]

I think sailing will answer whether osrs would benefit a ton from adding more skills beyond it. I’ve always been in the camp of reworking current skills that don’t feel great but I’m gonna give it a try

And I hope they learn from rs3 successes and mistakes. They’ve had multiple good and bad skills

[modern moth]

i think 12 years is plenty long to have waited for a single skill

but i'm sure glad 2015's sailing didn't pass

[normal tiger]

rip warding

[random summit]

I feel like the dev team is extremely careful with the new sailing skill and the things they want to add for it.

It makes for extremely good polls :) Like actually getting to vote "Yes I think these food would be a neat addition but not this specific one" and the same for the potions is great! Good job devs <3

Or I mean... Since I probably won't get what I specifically want because democracy 0/10 :^)

[wispy current]

I dont see what potions and food have to do with sailing

I also dont see why we need a new skill. “Because we havent had one in x years” isnt a good answer

no one likes skilling, everyone complains when they have to do it. maybe a very small percentage of players but we could have just made the skills we have better instead of adding a bunch of bloat.

[true talon]

yep you hit the nail on the head, people conflate the tedious jank and basically self torture as hard.
Man jagex is making easy scape with this teleport to nightmare, back in my day i had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to get here.

same mindset of people who would tell you using a tool is easy and such items should have not been invented, because it made building things easy.

[nocturne solstice]

In the new blog new potions and food were to be added that were accessed by sailing so that's the relation there.

We don't "Need" a new skill but people want a skill because it means more content for the game.

I don't think "no one likes skilling", I think people enjoy making progress and skilling is a nice way to afk the game while progressing your account to unlock content like QoL stuff (bonfires), gear (crafting/fletching), supplies (herblore/fishing), etc.

I don't think "made the skills we have better" is a good idea since if people actually wanted that they'd be playing RS3 which did do that. Smithing and mining come to mind.

[true talon]

i think skilling should be fleshed out more and we move away from drop tables just containing so many resources. but untill they do that, bosses need to continue producing materials

we have a few good skills that synergize with each other like herb an farming or fishing/hunter and cooking

but most others dont do anything, like smithing, fletching, fire making

smithing exists to produce raw gp from bars and ore lol

fletching does the same but with logs,

[nocturne solstice]

It is getting fleshed out more. It's still in development and we just got another poll so we can weigh in on that development.

I dont know what you mean about drop tables containing so many resources, its relation to bosses needing to produce materials, and how that relates to sailing though.

Im not really sure what you mean about skills synergizing though since your examples of good ones are just harvesting skills and their production skills while your examples of bad ones are just production skills while ignoring their harvesting skills.

[true talon]

im not talking about sailing

im talking about production skills in general

[icy relic]

I would just say be careful what you wish for

We get shittery like shark lures and ore/wood essence in RS3

At the end of the day skilling content is just way more accessible so it's highly unlikely to hold any sort of value unless the product is super strong and drains itself from the economy

[wispy current]

Use boat to get to island hur dur

[nocturne solstice]

In thay case smithing synergizes well with mining and fletching. Fletching and firemaking synergizes with woodcutting.

Both unlock gear.

[vivid ruin]

Love your pfp btw

[chrome lantern]

Nah I got 90k/hr with plenty of inefficiency

[true talon]

daily reminder to remove melee grubs from the doom k thanks, no1 wants to go run across the screen an swim in poison pools to hit melee grubs.

Letting them go in, hurts your future runs

its not a skill based challenge, its annoyance and rng heavy

[austere mulch]

Would make shield significantly easier at higher delves and unnecessary. It does take skill to avoid the acid and deal with them and also get back to your position for the first car. Even though it’s annoying, it’s fine

[true talon]

it makes the shield more consistent which helps you delve deeper, when your going for a boss that is around pushing your limits and an endurance battle, introducing massive swings of rng like melee grubs is not good design.

ether they an remove melee grubs or have grubs spawn in a set location, so you can prepare for them

they already removed them outside of shield phase

[chrome lantern]

I think it’s fine to have it as a high skill check to going later

Like if you don’t want to deal with melee grubs and that limits your depth

That’s more than fine

Most people don’t even bother to do delve 8, not much different of a concept

[true talon]

its not a high skill check lmao

[hard axle]

This boss was made so fucking easy btw

[chrome lantern]

If it’s not a high skill check

Then just

[true talon]

your skill of running into venom is a skill check?

[chrome lantern]

Go kill the melees

[hard axle]

Jesus Christ it’s so damn easy now

melees are fine now

[true talon]

most people ignore them an let them go in

[hard axle]

I got to delve 16 in 3 runs in a row

[chrome lantern]

Ok

[true talon]

its a massive dps loss to run across the room

[chrome lantern]

And if you do ignore them

[hard axle]

And they dumb

[chrome lantern]

There should be consequences

[hard axle]

it’s 0 dps loss if u do it right

[chrome lantern]

This is what we call good

[hard axle]

In my wave 16 runs, I only let in 5-8

The plugin tracks for me

[true talon]

whatever you say, bad design is praised as skill i see

[chrome lantern]

?

Why is it bad design to make you melee

Why would it be any better design if they were ranged and mage only

[true talon]

because of rng spawn and venom rng

[hard axle]

I’m saying that they made it overall easy as shit already.

They spaced out melee punish and I haven’t been same ticked

[chrome lantern]

Ok?

[hard axle]

And you can’t get triple double boulders

The boss idles so much

I got a 47% shield proc

[true talon]

they put yama coding on it lol

were he phases when he attacks over at %

[hard axle]

I’ve never gotten that low

But my point, again, is that the changes were already broken as hell.

They’re planning to make the big grub 3x damage too

so shield phase will die in 3 grubs total

[true talon]

seems fine, they arent making the boss easier, they are making it less tedious there is a difference

the core concept of dealing with the boss remains the same

[hard axle]

I wanna see a vod of you dealing with 8+ ngl

[true talon]

removing massive rng elements that hinder your progress is good

[hard axle]

Cuz I feel like the people complaining most about melees are the ones not understanding pathing

[true talon]

i just dont like when i have a shield phase with 8 melees walking though poison and how much better it is to have 8 range or mage grubs instead

esp if you need to car bait an there is a fuck ton of melees moving to the boss

[hard axle]

If you want something to complain about, complain about how rocks can't be on acid after the change

They're still working on fixing this

Because at 13+, I basically have no rocks on North and East side

and have to pre-plant them with the double boulders

[true talon]

i mean the boss just spews to much acid in general and using stuff like thralls and scythe make it 10x worst

[hard axle]

That is truly unfair

Unlike melee grubs

[true talon]

people abusing the orb mechanic as the boss dies

[hard axle]

because technically if you have all tiles covered

[true talon]

to clear acid

[hard axle]

it means you can't actually deal with shockwaves from car phase

[true talon]

when instead they could have the melee punish clear acid as intended

[hard axle]

whereas melee grubs you can hally or path better

It's geniunely not been a problem pre-13

[true talon]

its just not fun to deal with or lose a bunch of hp running though venom

its a rng element that screws your run and out of your control

you can call it skillfull or whatever, but its extremely unfun to have to deal with them

[hard axle]

I swear there's a way to control how grubs spawn

[true talon]

you can maybe drop rocks on every spot they spawn lol

[small anvil]

The patch note said something about it being near you but it didn't feel that way

[hard axle]

no, not that

you know what

i'm gonna sit through the vods and see if there's a pattern

[small anvil]

Have they figured out what size gets ragged

[hard axle]

are you ever hitting the melees before they get close to boss? @true talon

yes or no

[true talon]

yes

i choose to kill melee before they reach boss or acid

[hard axle]

good good

[true talon]

unless there is no acid on that side then ill wait for boss

but if they all walking though acid i just ignore them or hit under boss

its not that i cant deal with them, its just 1 more layer of mental chip that drains my will to bother doing this boss

i already changed my left click to decend so i dont see the trash loot lol

[patent sky]

Any idea when the rune pouch is coming to the mage arena?

[hard axle]

does it still warn you if unique or now

[tacit wharf]

slayer stuff coming in 2-3 weeks

[true talon]

i dunno i would assume so lol

its a glowing hole now

[hard axle]

hope ur doing this type of pathing too cuz I see too many people not step under boss

https://i.imgur.com/FidMCcX.png

[true talon]

so i know when i want too loot

[hard axle]

actually depressing how little loot there is for a delve 81 clear lmao

[true talon]

🙁

[hard axle]

I'll trade you 2 cloths and a boots for demon lobster

[true talon]

deal

that was my first glowing hole

[tawny tide]

https://tenor.com/view/hmm-saturday-night-live-not-quite-not-really-skeptical-gif-25237593

[hard axle]

glowing hole good

[true talon]

glowing hole good, untill it contains dupe pets

why is this a thing again?

[hard axle]

cuz people would otherwise fume about dupe items too

uniques a unique

[true talon]

dupe pets are just fucking lame

esp when they plan to make them perm

[chrome lantern]

I do think yo ucould make an argument for the hole to not glow if hte pet is a dupe though

[austere mulch]

Widega is about to clear wave 100

It’s a skill gap

[minor whale]

People kept begging for every possible "hard" part of the boss to be nerfed or removed

Was bound to happen

[true talon]

no, people wanted everything that didnt function properly or was massive RNG checks to be nerfed/removed.

[minor whale]

Remove rocks hitting during orb, make orb remove acid, make melee punish last longer and be instant, get rid of melee grubs, make time between boulders longer, make melee punish happen consistently, make melee punish clear acid even if the condition for it originally isn't met, etc etc etc

[true talon]

Literally tune in "im letting that guy in (melee grub) unlucky.......

[minor whale]

Getting rid of all the rng/bullshit elements just makes the boss zzzzzz

[austere mulch]

Yeah, he’s let two in in the last 100 waves lol

[chrome lantern]

Yeah nobody’s ever made a mistake on the way to wave 100, ever

[austere mulch]

It’s a skill diff

[minor whale]

Yeah after 100 waves people will make mistakes, saying removing melee grabs was necessary because sometimes people make mistakes while doing content for 3 hours is funny

[true talon]

? he let it in because he had no choice. it was time to bait the boss an he had 2 melee grubs.

[austere mulch]

Again, he’s let in 2 grubs in 100 waves lol

[minor whale]

Definition of skill difference

[austere mulch]

Also he could’ve gotten it, but he chose not to because of his car lure

[hard axle]

wait, are you saying because he's let some in in almost 2 hours of running, it should be nerfed

cuz 2 unavoidable grubs in 100 delves is not bad lmao

[small anvil]

how long til we get to 6 hour log of delving

[hard axle]

and he's done the last... 60 waves without boost pots

just 99 range

so people can't even say "omegalul dps checks"

he's consistent orbs

[true talon]

looks like the grubs are always spawning on that side, so there might be a way to get them. but i wonder if its just because there is so much shit on the screen they dont know where to go

[hard axle]

I swear

it's something to do

with where you proc wave 1-6

I'm going to test something later when I'm free

[small anvil]

this is the line i was thinking about

[true talon]

ya hes def doing something to force them to literally always spawn in the same location

[true talon]

this never happens for me, they always spawn to my far side lol

[small anvil]

tho i guess this is just regular grubs not shield grubs?

[true talon]

ya maybe reg grubs

ive tried everything to force grub spawns during shield

[hard axle]

no it might just be rng spawns

it's always opposite or near opposite

[true talon]

Remove some of the jank and rng and then the boss will be about skill and supply management

[chrome lantern]

Define “side”

Because like if you’re on the east side is north the “opposite side”

[true talon]

Surely he just stopped gettng loot rolls due to the depth?

108 waves for that lol

i dont even think thats 108 rolls on the loot table

[chrome lantern]

You do know there’s a send to bank option on the loot that didn’t fit right

[true talon]

he claimed it all to inventory

dropped the sunkissed bones

[chrome lantern]

It doesn’t seem that shocking idk

The aether seems fairly low

[true talon]

ya an d darts

it feels like when loot window could no longer hold his loot, all he got was items that rolled into the stacks

there is no way that is 108 rolls lol

Loot remained the same for 8 waves outside of tears

[chrome lantern]

Tears, teles, death runes, ores… why lie?

I can see at least 5 loot rolls just comparing those pictures

[true talon]

i didnt lie, i said the loot rolled into stacks he already had

[chrome lantern]

?

How is that the same

[true talon]

the visible stacks

[chrome lantern]

It’s the same except for where it’s not at all the same

Got it

Thank you for making useless and wrong statements

“Guys these loot rolls aren’t accounted for except where they’re clearly visible”

[true talon]

"i dont understand it, so clearly its wrong"

typical lol

[chrome lantern]

I know what you’re saying

But you made a statement as if it supported your claim

While having absolutely nothing to do with it

[true talon]

regardless, loot is bad.

[chrome lantern]

You think he just stopped getting cannonballs, earth runes, sharks, dart tips, just because you can’t see them, then posted a screenshot clearly showing 5/8 of the drops that he got in the last 8 waves

That doesn’t support your claim at all

You’re free to think the loot is bad I just want to make clear

[true talon]

yes and there is no evidence to say otherwise

[chrome lantern]

Ok my theory is that he got 30 uniques that got deleted because he already had a glowy light then

No evidence to say otherwise

[true talon]

so your saying in 108 delves, he got 0 d legs. only 15 onyx bolts and 1 moon key

his loot total makes 0 sense

Lets look at 34 clear

Also he got 0 sunfire splinters?

[narrow folio]

981?

[true talon]

Im talking about the final claim from wave 108

[narrow folio]

guess he couldn't fit everything

[true talon]

i watched it live, he claimed everything to inventory

only dropped the shark lure, 2 ranaar seeds, and sunkissed bones

its possible, but i feel like there is a loot limit

[narrow folio]

maybe

[thick beacon]

dont get why he has to fit everything in his inv can he not just send loot to his bank?

[true talon]

he wanted to claim it to show lol

as the loot didnt fit in the loot window

but it did look extremely low for some reason

[austere mulch]

Wouldn’t be surprised

[true talon]

108 delves that loot dont add up lol

[austere mulch]

Seems like you can’t roll two uniques either

At least none of the 50+ runs have had double uniques which seems unlikely

Would be cool if like, you could roll for an elite box and then continue to delve deeper and roll for another. Walk away with 2-3 elite boxes

[true talon]

i rolled a lot of elite clues

sometimes 3 messages a run

[dire mango]

splinters are rare though. it's not unlikely to do 108 and go without

[true talon]

no splinters no d legs, very low rolls on everything else

highly unlikely

[dire mango]

those are both 1/105 items according to the wiki

so it's not crazy to not see them for 108 rolls

[true talon]

every wave after like 6 is a double roll

[austere mulch]

Oh nice

Yeah I haven’t been on since they were added

[true talon]

ya elites seem very common

prob best place to farm elites now

[austere mulch]

Will it actually give multiple boxes per run

[true talon]

dunno im already capped

but i got the message multiple times lol

[austere mulch]

Guess I’ll have to just get in lol

Be sick if you can

Though I think I’m already capped at my 9 masters, so need to clear those out

Unfortunately didn’t do many elites, mediums (spooned) or easy clues while the account was an iron, so those are all 3 limit

[tacit wharf]

about time, now people can actually do sarachnis

[quiet plank]

with the spec is the rosewood blowpipe going to be good at the doom?

[hard axle]

The reason why I think it’s right is because Treads are 234m ge price and he got 8-9m in other loot.

my average 1-15 was 1.5m

*6 = 9m

So his 242m 1-108 claim was reasonable

[hard axle]

This is way above average

We know he definitely got more than he could fit in too

[true talon]

most that 34 clear was sunkissed bones

[hard axle]

Because his avernic treads would not load

in the first section

[true talon]

ya but when he claimed hs loot window was blink

but it still had value

untill he claimed again

[hard axle]

yeah cuz it was just rendered outside

[true talon]

which was just 1 moon key

[hard axle]

Guess they didn’t think to add a scroll bar

but the loot definitely still loaded

[true talon]

the ammounts he got in a 108 dont add up at all

[hard axle]

1-15 is 1.5m no uniques

[true talon]

dont look at the total value

look at the roll ammount

[hard axle]

He dropped 3 spirit seeds, shark lures, and bones iirc

[true talon]

yea i watched it live

[hard axle]

Let me check

[true talon]

he dropped the bones and shark lures

but even that wasnt a lot

126 sunkissed bones and like 144 shark lures

108 claims is = max roll loot 100 times

there is not even 100 total rolls in that loot stack

if i simmed it, im sure it would show but there is no sim options for doom atm 🙁

Jagex can make ralos great again with a simple change

allow doom to go below -30 def

[hard axle]

9 rolls in death runes, 5 in chaos runes, demon tears are a bitch to calc because they increase per wave as a guaranteed drop, 5 rolls of ethers, 12 rolls of waystone, 6 roll of pickaxe, 4 cannonball rolls, 2 celasyrus bark rolls, 3 spirit seed rolls, 10 rolls of runite ore, 5 rolls of gold ore, 2 roll of sharks, 4 staffs, 5 roll of fire ore, 11 rolls of dmed, 2 roll of dart tips, 1 moon key, 1-2 rolls of onyx bolts, and whatever bones + shark lures

I think that’s close to 100 rolls

It’s not max roll always

It still rolls the average amount multiplier by the multiplier

@true talon

For example, a player is equally likely to receive 2, 3, or 4 dragon platelegs at delve level 3. Delve level 2 has a -0.35x quantity multiplier, which gives possible quantities of 2, 2, and 3, respectively, meaning there is a 2/3 chance to receive two sets and a 1/3 chance to receive three sets.

So, like I said, that 8-9m of non-unique loot for 1-108 is fairly reasonable based on my 1-15 experience of 800k-1.5m loot

[true talon]

Can you freeze grubs

Wonder what would happen if you froze a grub next to the boss then 1 tick venator bowed off it lol

[dire mango]

Not according to the wiki

[hard axle]

im a bit confused how he got that

[true talon]

old wiki said the loot was 1.3-2x after wave 3

guess its been changed

According to this, unless the bonus is stacking?

wave 9 would be 178% each roll

[hard axle]

been that way since release ngl

If they let you keep the base loot regardless of death, 3-4m/hr in just base loot would be massive ngl

[true talon]

ehh not really, lot of places have base loot similar to this

[hard axle]

most places cap at like 1-2m/hr base loot

[true talon]

unique price cant fully carry content's relevance. if your just farming and all your seeing is trash and your so dry, you lose the will to keep going. you need a small bump every now an then of something.

thats kind of what awakener orbs did for DT2

as well as perfect kill rolls of some decent items

[hard axle]

okay, then 9m/hr in base loot

cuz I was being relatively conservative at 1.5m/15 minute run

1.5m/10 minute = 9m/hr in base loot if we're allowed to keep it

[true talon]

its nowhere near 9m

[hard axle]

do need to knock off sun-kissed bones

[true talon]

maybe in inflated sun kissed bones

[hard axle]

but like i said, was being mega conservative with 3-4m/hr number

[true talon]

Dunno what happened here, but colo took a massive hit

quivers are now 400k a clear lol

[hard axle]

cuz even less people need them

jagex balanced it poorly

[true talon]

colo really could use some QOL to its items or more use cases, considering varl 3 introduced no new ways to use sunfire splinters

kinda sad it was left an forgotten

[hard axle]

splinters should've been used over demon tears

and remove from wave 1

its almost like they should listen to the same people who've been saying this day 1 for both toa and colo

balance is balance

[austere mulch]

Add Yama to that list 🤣

[true talon]

Dunno about 1.5m

for 1-8

47 bones 400k of this

[hard axle]

yeah that's on the extreme low end

I've gotten 800-1.5m loot for the most part

so if we do 800k/clear on average, with discounting bones, at 6 clears an hour, that would be 4.8m/hr in base loot IF they let us keep it

which is miles better than araxxor base loot of like 1m/hr and hydra 1.5-2m/hr

[true talon]

ive not seen a single run 1-8 being above 500k yet, it feels like they broke something

it was better previously

Also i just died on wave 5, because there was 2 earth pillars stacked on each other lol

it spawned the orb

[hard axle]

Is waystone accurately priced or no?

No it is not lmao

Might not fully offset bones, but a significant chunk since you typically do get more than 1

[true talon]

its 100k

[hard axle]

Yes and game prices it at 24k

Again, this base loot is only considered bad because you lose it, but if they let you keep it on a wipe, would be considered good

[true talon]

should be high risk high reward

[hard axle]

Then yeah, could be higher

[true talon]

currently its low risk high reward with void being bis and death fee being 10k

1m but with 640k in bones lol

[meager flame]

im ngl they should just probably roll with dropping crazy resources for all of the old ones when it comes to everything

the only "safe" resources are what im assuming will pass in the sailing unlocked stuff

everything else is pretty much already dumpstered and controlled by either shop or alch values nearly lol

[true talon]

finally a unique the glowy hole has boosted my motivation to get back in there

[hard axle]

Yeah try that but 140 deep delves and 1200 before first unique

[true talon]

my frst drop didnt come till 1512 lol

[icy relic]

Rates are so shit

[tacit wharf]

rates are fine if not too generous

[hard axle]

Yeah like, I understood that I went dry

It's like 9 hours for a unique.

or less

[tacit wharf]

u have a 1/89 chance of seeing an item just by clearing wave 6

or to put it another way, u have the same chance to see a unque as doing a 150 at toa if u clear wave 8, and it takes 1/2 the time

beging a little generous with time but keeping it simple, 40 mins for the toa/20 for 1-8 waves

[true talon]

its 25 hours

25-30 hours per unique

[hard axle]

"per unique" and there's 3 of them

1/40 for a 1-8 completion iirc

and that's 2 outright bis

since i don't believe you can get multiple uniques in a single wave, it likely means u roll a unique and then u roll which one

meaning the drop rates are added together

25 hours / = 8.33 hours a unique

and that's not counting pet either btw

[true talon]

true its specific unique

guess im just really dry lol

oo

wave 4 unique

[hard axle]

deserved

[last onyx]

What should I be glassblowing at 60 crafting I'm trying to inch away at glory

should I be doing unempowered orbs or lantern lenses

[true talon]

only boots left i guess

[winged mantle]

Whatever gives you the most xp

[true talon]

like kind of a shame i started enjoying the boss, but like the frustrations was beyond insane

so i do hope they slap something on its table that warrants me returning (d arrows would be enough) XD

[last onyx]

unempowered orbs because I get crafting exp from blowing them and also making battlestaffs right?

[winged mantle]

That upto you. I've never made the orbs beyond the glass side of things so they sit in the bank.

[last onyx]

ah okay

I'm gonna try making fire battlestaves

[last onyx]

jesus

[winged mantle]

The sand mine can hopefully be dead content in future

[last onyx]

oh I probably want 70 agility for this lol

oh well I guess I can get that sooner rather than later

[true talon]

does the occur a attack cooldown?

the eye*

when you kill mage grubs

[hard axle]

no

that's why widega used it and sbs for dc/cure me

[round lintel]

Anyone spooned at pnm? show me its log

I started it so I can get 25kc

But I do 1 kill and then afk for like 50 min

xd

[ember token]

i got you

[ember token]

orb was from phosanis

[round lintel]

damn orb sounds nice but if you dont have the staff is kinda ass

[ember token]

i'm a main so it was +300m

well, it was 300m at the time, not anymore

[round lintel]

yeah im seeing the prices

they are ultra low now

maybe cuz the time saving update

ive seen lots of bots

[true talon]

Bots already at doom they do 1-7 so not be detected on the highscores

Also the base loot looks bugged, ive done multiple 1-8s tonight an everything has been like 200k max

[tacit wharf]

was going to say, thought it was a bit weird i was seeing a few 106's and 112's with no other boss kc, having mokha kc when iwas afking tears

[hard axle]

was always bound to happen tbh - the quest reqs and other reqs are really just there to buffer enough for jagex to ban

[tacit wharf]

i do wonder if they remove the items said bots bring into the game that they can confirm through the collection log

[icy relic]

Pretty hard to do that once they hit the GE unless they are automatically drained at the point of entry

Which is why I think they just remove a % over time

[analog crow]

Apparently they confiscate approx 250B of gold from bots each month

[wild cedar]

For the sailing artwork vote, I will make the usual criticism of using first-past-the-post. There should always be some form of runoff if no option receives >50% of votes.

[nocturne solstice]

Why?

Also would the poll after that need 70% (the normal number) or 50%+ for you?

[tiny epoch]

because first past the post is undemocratic

i wouldnt ask for multiple rounds of repolling though, a preferential vote would be a better solution

[nocturne solstice]

I feel like if it was actually undemocratic then there wouldn't have been a vote and Jagex would have just picked one amongst the entries. People getting to vote makes it democratic.

Preferential voting might be better though. Quite frankly I don't think even with preferential voting people would be satisfied with the results.

[sharp cave]

Why? Fptp is just garbage, especially when there's 2 similar candidates (the 2 anchors) that siphon votes off each other

[last onyx]

My final comment about Delve:

1. Bored to hell bugging and cheesing the boss for free kc that require close to no skill. Just so that a couple of streamers can cheese up to level 80
2. I enjoyed the boss way more when i was doing 4-way melee switches with crystal halberd on melee punish
3. Healing during shield phase with ancient godsword broke the boss

Overall a really good design, but it was more fun when i had to use supplies, do the mechanics and have the uncertainty of death.

[true talon]

none of this changed, just allowed you to push deeper.

boss is still plenty punishing

your confusing its bugged state as difficulty lol

it spamming boulders, punishes ect with no attack cooldown and delaying your own attack was bugs

they added several mechanics to clear poison, mainly being the orb (id rather it just throw up a melee punish when low an you need x ammount of str to kill it)

then you get healed/prayer/spec an clears venom

orb is really stupid mechanic

[hasty shard]

people want this boss to have as much restrictions as the wildy i swear

[last onyx]

They changed melee punish to allow instant melee attacks = Anyone wanting to do melee switches is punished as that costs ticks/time.

[true talon]

? thats a skill issue then lol

this was a very complained about problem

and how it should have been

[last onyx]

What's a skill issue? Not being able to put on c-hally, piety & 4-way melee switch in the same tick?

and click the boss

[hasty shard]

you can just preswap every rock

[last onyx]

They should have changed it so that your charachter stops attacking and not made it instamelee

I enjoyed the 4-way melee switches with c-hally hitting 180s, it was fun, difficulty and i felt rewarded for skill. Now i'm just playing like a headless chicken cheesing and bugging the boss for free kc.

Anyways, that's my opinion. The removal of rewarding skill was stupid.

[true talon]

good thing they didnt do that

[true talon]

nothing is stopping you from doing this

[true talon]

its already pretty restrictive, only a select few players have 8+ kc

[last onyx]

That's exactly what they did, they removed every incentive for any melee switch or weapons other than nox-hally.

Since you can melee the boss instantly now the nox halberd becomes way more efficient, hence removing the reward for special attacks with the crystal halberd which benefits massively from switches.

[obsidian venture]

You can still chally

People use nox for the 2 tiles distance

[last onyx]

You can, but you're punished heavily for it due to the change.

[obsidian venture]

Same shit with chally

[true talon]

what? how does making the boss melee 1 tickable make the need to do switches less important?

[obsidian venture]

You’re not punished if you’re not sending deep delves

You barely need supplies going to 8

8+ is where you might dip into them and having a 4 way melee is not gonna be as ideal

But feel free to chally if that’s what’s fun for you

[round lintel]

I dont understand Allex, You are ranging the boss and I am not within 2 tiles from the boss almost never, so when melee punish comes thru you are 4 tiles, equip chally with spec, click the boss, do your remaining 3 ways switch and click again.

The only difference between before and now is that your attack is not delayed by your previous attack

Which was a problem if you had grubs around or you misclicked a ranged attack

[last onyx]

Which is why a <stop attacking> change would be better than instant melee attack which is also how the game should work.

Respecting how weapons have certain amount of ticks before the next attack

[frail bough]

doesnt nox hally only give one echo splat

[last onyx]

Allowing switches and more playstyles, spec weapons and so on.

[last onyx]

Correct, but you can do it instantly and as 5t and chally is 7t and benefits massively from spending a couple of ticks for gear and so on.

[frail bough]

attack delay from chally also gives you time to handle prayer switches and stuff without accidently poking again

[round lintel]

To be honest you are not making any sense. Might be that you are resistant to change and it bothers you that u learnt in a different way and now that they changed it you feel bad.

[last onyx]

Uhm

[frail bough]

yeah im not following why you cant just do a 4 way to maximize splat dmg and why you would opt to have 1 echo splat instead of 2

idk anyone who does that

[last onyx]

This is because you can t-bow and 1t later nox hally now. If you were to do a 4-way melee switch, piety, spec and click boss you wont be able to do that in 1t.

with a c-chally, hence it's not worth doing it anymore.

[frail bough]

idk a lot of people who struggle to do a 4 way switch in 1 tick ngl

and doing piety is more/less useless

[last onyx]

Far from useless, it adds a lot of max hits to your chally spec.

[round lintel]

Allex it takes the same amount of time for doom to charge its beam attack fron the time it transitions the only difference is that you can now have your first attack on melee punish faster, helps you while dealing with grubs, movements, acid... you can take 4 ticks if you can 1 tick a 4 way switch which then thats on you.

[last onyx]

lol

[frail bough]

This reads very much like "I want the boss to be less smooth so that I can have dps on par with others" ngl

[last onyx]

It's more like: I want the game to work like it should and respect weapon cooldowns.

[frail bough]

so we make grubs respect that as well? yeah okay

[last onyx]

Idm instant on grubs as it doesnt affect anything

You still have cooldown on boss

[round lintel]

I just assume he is resistant to change which I get most of people playing the game, we are under the spectrum and thats one the things we may present xd

[frail bough]

you just said you want things to respect cooldowns but then you are immediately making exceptions

[last onyx]

Read it again

[frail bough]

why can't the mechanic just be that exception as well? that's so silly

i did you said you dont mind instant on grubs but still on boss

read my latest

again, if you really feel like it was worth switching before vs now, then that damage difference is still there - feel free to keep doing switches and have the additional benefit of being able to attack as soon as you're done with switches instead of being forced to wait

[last onyx]

How is it a problem that i find joy in playing the game like it's supossed to work and have fun doing switches, spec and skillfull play instead of instantattacks removing it?

[round lintel]

Thats the thing though you are the one cutting yourself edges here

[last onyx]

Instantattacks dumbs down the boss completely and removed it, it's not about me being resistent to change. I want the game to work like it should so that i can play it like i always have, do switches, use my spec and create strategies doing so.

[frail bough]

"the game to work how it should, unless its a mechanic that i say is fine"

yeah nty, pass

[last onyx]

I dont have fun clicking a nox hally and instantly on the boss. Its boring as fuck

[obsidian venture]

You’re like the one person who wants it different. Everyone else didn’t like the delay for melee punish, and Jagex agreed

[round lintel]

What makes you think attack delay removal is a punish to YOUR gameplay, think about it you can now do an 8 way of you wish and wont die to beam in the process xdd

[last onyx]

I agree, it wasn't fun when a t-bow shot went off straight into a melee punish. Hence they should have made you stop attacking instead. Just like when shield phase starts.

[frail bough]

you literally cant do that

without removing weapon delay

the game cant know what you're going to do 1 tick before it happens cause it hasnt happend yet

how would it prevent you from shooting without just removing your attack delay after youve made that shot

[obsidian venture]

But they changed it and it’s not going to be changed back to something a majority dislike

That’s quite literally a personal issue at this point unfortunately

[round lintel]

99.99999999999% we like the chsnge

And then Allex who doesnt.

[obsidian venture]

Bad rng

It was annoying to have a bow shot go off and then stand there idle to scythe

Now I nox too

[last onyx]

Ofc, there's no reason not to 1t nox and it's the only option now.

It's just boring

[round lintel]

Or having melee grubs when mid way to kill them it transitioned and you are there with your dic* in your hand waiting to hit

[last onyx]

We should do it at maiden too, make you 1t freeze when she spawns nylos and everywhere else in the game too.

Cus its so much fun

right

[frail bough]

i dont even know what that could possibly mean ngl

[last onyx]

remove all skill in the game

[hazy zodiac]

Going back through your message history, it appears you don’t have fun playing this game

[round lintel]

Again this doesnt make any sense, why is the only option? Nothing has changed except the annoyinh waiting to attack the melee punish which takes 14 ticks or so to go off

[hazy zodiac]

All you do is complain lol

[frail bough]

idm the complaining if it makes sense

[earnest vigil]

it just moves the skill to a different part of the fight, and by the sounds of it its a part of the fight you dont encounter much hence your boredom 😄

[last onyx]

I don't create ''positive feedback suggestions'' for things that work perfectly and doesn't need a change, that would be silly. But i respect your attempt xD

i personally don't enjoy 1-way switches as it does not require a single piece of skill. It's just my personal view, it's definitely not the way to go about things when you encounter a problem and completely opposite of ToB where switches, specs and skills is so heavily enjoyed and admired.

This is just my opinion, you don't have to agree with it and feel free to throw shade at me for saying it lol, i just want it brought to light.

[frail bough]

i think we are mostly just trying to show you that it doesnt make sense

[earnest vigil]

you dont think 1t switches takes skill?

[frail bough]

but if you feel like switches were worth before the update and aren't after, then idk

[last onyx]

Correct

[frail bough]

👍

[true talon]

they didnt even change anything, he can still do what he was doing. but now he feels like "its not long a skill thing or its a now something i was doing that no1 else was doing that made me seem superior" complete insane mentality

[round lintel]

You are sooo wrong in tob tick perfect movements and switches is whats rewarding from being a skilled player, to the point where you dont feel attack delays. I dont know you but I am always within 6 tiles of doom and by the time I equipped my chally, gloves and spec after a tbow shot was like 2 tick waiting and it could sometimes throw you off specially in wave 7, 8+ where you also need to prayer flick boulders and move, that delay makes a difference is not skill issues when you can get popped 58s every wrong prayer trying not to die from beam

[true talon]

lol you @ a chat mod over someone disagreeing with you?

[last onyx]

No, just because of you.

[frail bough]

I also just would always want to use chally spec for wave 8 pushing at the start of the kill, having the double echo hits from chally spec give similar damage potential as zcb, while also being more reliable and less spec, seems like a good enough reason that you wouldn't simply just nox hally

[round lintel]

I am gonna tell you what I tell people using Fang for regular slayer, feel free to play the game as feel like it

[frail bough]

but idk maybe i dont have enough exp in later waves

[round lintel]

Maybe he doesnt.

Or he is racing Widega for deep delves

[last onyx]

Does it matter?

[round lintel]

It does, indeed.

[noble vortex]

?

[last onyx]

Tassili's comments, doesn't belong in a game-update discussion.

[last onyx]

My deepest Delve is 15, i haven't attempted to go for a long run yet and enjoy the high risk with lots of switches for speed-running.

[noble vortex]

I mean..is that it? I don’t personally see the issue. It’s his opinion.

Maybe some more context would help?

[true talon]

they are mad i disagreed with them over the change jagex made to allow the melee punish to be 1 tick
Said that it removed their superior skill expression of 4 way switching to chally punish and now it doesnt feel worth it an everyone using the nox hally is better off now.

[round lintel]

Well, nothing has really changed except that now when you do your 4 way into spec and clkck the boss, will attack the boss right away.

[noble vortex]

If that’s all it was I don’t see why I would need to moderate something like that.

[round lintel]

No need

[last onyx]

Think your presence already has made a difference

[noble vortex]

[true talon]

uhhhhh lol

[last onyx]

Indeed it will, i just hope this wont be the case in future content releases as it removed the incentive we were given to bring melee switches and do different play-styles. That was at least how i had fun at Delve.
I will probably still continue doing so until i want to afk my way to wave 50. ; )

[frail bough]

plz stream your afk to 50 plz

[true talon]

Personally, i dont like how they allowed the boss to melee and ruined anyway to actually melee this boss outside of losing massive dps to flinch it.

[round lintel]

Maybe go for certain Yama contracts or melee Yama, 4 way switches with attack delays are relevant there

[true talon]

melee this boss would be a lot more intersting than just void an tbow

youd have to bait the car so youd get max melee dps

[obsidian venture]

Ok you’re absolutely spitting

This I can agree with 🤣

[last onyx]

😂🤘🏻

[austere mulch]

Should be able to triple park if you do the double west park with the step under for the first, and then do the north park after

Is a cool idea anyhow

[true talon]

dunno why they did that

would helped inquistor

[zenith pike]

To make it a bit consistent I had to do an extra rock delay post 8 just to keep the boss in place twice then move him slightly to rock I placed near a corner, baiting him in. It's a lot more damage than bow but wasn't worth longterm

[hard axle]

I started copying Widega and not relying on rng boulders

Since boulders no longer fall on rocks with acid

[zenith pike]

very nice very ncie

[wild cedar]

Ah well I like all four designs so I will still be happy

[velvet pumice]

Anyone finding great uses for eye of ayak?

[round lintel]

Pnm pillars

If you dont have shadow or harm staff

[velvet pumice]

Is that the nightmare boss?

[austere mulch]

It’s incredible in the nylo room for tob as intended

[round lintel]

Yes

[velvet pumice]

I'm kinda new to bossing beyond God wars lol

[austere mulch]

And it’s really good for cox. In max gear, it’s about 5% worse than shadow. In less than max gear, it is sometimes better than shadow.

Eg. A 1b setup with ayak will beat a 1B setup with shadow

[analog crow]

You should try some good bosses

[rare frost]

How good actually is eye? My bank is 800mil and I need to decide if I'm doing a shadow rebuild soon or not

[austere mulch]

#game-update message

[rare frost]

Hmmm, only thing is toa is by far my favourite and most done raid

[austere mulch]

Uness you do a lot of toa^

If you primarily do toa, shadow rebuild is still alright

Bc you have the 4x multiplier

[true talon]

eye is great

[rare frost]

For a shadow rebuild do you like need virtus or can you get away with dagonhai for a few days

[austere mulch]

But pretty much anywhere else, eye will be better on that budget

Bc you can have max mage ayak vs scrubs and shadow

[rare frost]

My current toa gear is masori BP + acb fwiw

[true talon]

every 1% magic damage you lose is 4% loss from shadow

in TOA

[rare frost]

Yeah I know but like do I wanna wait another 100m to buy it

[round lintel]

Eye is just fine

For toa

And you can use crystal + bowfa

Which is second best for akkha butterfly and obelisk at warden p1

It will still 1 shot baboons

[plush gull]

why not just main eye in toa, 3t butterfly is more comfy and 3t matches insanity speed in p3

[round lintel]

I assume if he doesnt have shadow, he doesnt have tbow either so bowfa is good and cheaper to use, besides at akkha and obelisk is just better with confliction gauntlets

And i havent been up to date on 3t akkha butterfly tbh

[minor whale]

3t is a lot easier to lose dps with

Miss a tick and that's 33% dps lost for that attack cycle

If you're that close to Shadow

Get Shadow

[hard axle]

you know what, add this: https://x.com/gunschilli/status/1954288521130426482

chilli (@gunschilli)

Pet #38 creb (roughly 115 mvps)

X · Aug 9, 2025, 9:07 PM

[true talon]

True

Why does it feel like i have no rocks during car when going past delv 10?

using the sidewalk tech an it feels like there are just no rocks at all

I guess the rocks not able to drop in acid is the issue

[fallen snow]

Am I crazy? I swear every once in a while when volatile earth is straight line and no rocks in pathing I ctrl walk and I walk ahead of the orb

Gonna start recording. Happened handful of times now I swear im not crazy. Or maybe i am....

[hard axle]

yes, that's why you have to be smart with where you place the double boulders

rocks used to be able to drop in acid afaik

[round lintel]

I remember on released people were saying you needed to hit 3 of them during shield

I started doing that and hated more the shield on like the first hrs of release

Then figured out on my own it was not necessary

I was reading some of the poll questions

whats the point of armadyl brew? xd

sounds like dead content from the start

[hard axle]

Oh dude, armadyl brew is busted

You brew -> armadyl brew

For range content

29 healing every 6t

Don’t doubt it

I know so many tobbers begging for a bandos/melee-version potion that does functionally the same thing

@austere mulch

[small anvil]

You get zammy brew mix

[round lintel]

Blog says heals for 10%+2 thats 11 hp

where is the 26?

[small anvil]

Brew into it

[round lintel]

and range is the same as a normal range pot

sounds bad idk what im missing here

[small anvil]

Yes so if you're potted you get to brew then arma

And miss no damage

And heal 26

From tbow

Shoot, brew, arma, shoot and miss no time and don't even shoot with down stats

[hard axle]

yep

if u brew on the same time u attack, it rolls off the stat before brew reduces

[small anvil]

ya it basically becomes brew - scb but the back half also heals

and brew counteracts the def drain so you'll be neutralish def lvl if you do it

[minor whale]

Arma brew is juiced

[true talon]

Why is it sometime there is like 4 grubs and then later there is an army lol.

so many was going in of all 3 combat styles, i couldnt even get my ancient god sword spec off on the shield

[austere mulch]

This + soul horn working with claws + npc contact not canceling current path

https://tenor.com/view/mundo-feliz-onetreehsll-world-if-gif-14071235670792471304

[hard axle]

Imo ranged doesn’t need this form of powercreep, but melee should have it

[tiny epoch]

melee gets bloodfury range gets arma brew i guess

[ember token]

dw we’re getting blood rancour with the vampyre finale

[chrome lantern]

imo armadyl brew is bad but we all know nothing fails polls