game-update

[flint harness]

Pretty sure you can set a frame limit in game settings

[meager flame]

yeah its just

[inner plover]

you must be new here nyaa

[final frigate]

375, 385, 410, 430, 440s are incredibly common raid levels

[signal moth]

mines unlimited

[flint harness]

60 or unlimited

[meager flame]

ya so is mine atm

[rough vector]

same level at chop on 40fps, but that's only based on 20 seconds worth of testing lol

[meager flame]

it needs to at least support common refresh rates on gaming monitors i'd think

[signal moth]

it just sounds cooler.

[rough vector]

*level of

[final frigate]

i have permanent hopium dw

[meager flame]

60 for example is way too low but

[drifting valley]

Its a galaxy ao4,

[meager flame]

you also dont want to just bleed performance for no reason getting frames that aren't doing anything

[signal moth]

my pc performance is bad anyways

[vague viper]

Pop your report in #1392089609223143526 including your device details and what activity you were trying to do/your location 🙂

[junior prawn]

My jagex launcher disabled what I do?

[drifting valley]

Giants foundry is now a fps foundry

A loss of fps that is

[signal moth]

nice render cape

[drifting valley]

Thanks

[frozen lion]

looooooooool

[drifting valley]

Its renderd nice

Plz bin this,

I cba frames

[junior prawn]

Can everyone please help

[ember token]

does this fall under

Objects or effects with transparency, like crystals, smoke, and overlays are not rendering as intended.

[vague viper]

Again, this is a beta, this is not how it'll perform once it's live. You can just turn it of if you'd like not to use it until it's out of beta

[junior prawn]

My jagex launcher disabled what I do?

[signal moth]

have you tried turning it off and on again

[chrome lantern]

Probably log back in

[vague viper]

I'd ask in #technical-support rather than here

[iron wing]

Holy wraps are slightly clipping in certain outfits game is unplayable

[sour kelp]

is the beta structured so it updates over time?

[winged mantle]

lol the bofa has clipped with the fire cape for years

[vague viper]

Yeah we'll be updating it as and when we have fixes 😄 so I'll update the blogs and the known issues list I put here to let people know when things are fixed, but we don't have etas for it, it won't be done to line up with game updates, it'll just be as and when we have those fixes.

[winged mantle]

hmmmm @vague viper could you add an "are you sure you wish you do this" for chiselling emblems into ether? it just felt weird it let me break down all with no second warning

[vague viper]

Will raise it as feedback!

[solemn coral]

performance of the jagex client is incredibly good tbh. New renderer has the loading issue but other wise its 2-3x the fps of runelite

[sour kelp]

so itll just be pushed as client updates

[tribal summit]

Aside from obvious bugs I can't tell any differences lol

[winged mantle]

get beep booped

[flat nest]

made a nice meme about the update and cant even post it :C

[rough vector]

setting fps limit actually decreases performance in this beta, at least on my end 🙂

[fresh rivet]

I'm a bit sad about the Yama clue changes, i think i missed out on over 50 elite clues 😵

[rough vector]

huge graphical update on my end, just needs some anti-aliasing

[sour kelp]

aa has been in for quiet a while now

[rough vector]

Thanks @ember token

oh yeah this is miles above already

[sour kelp]

oh windows scaling does something weird

[meager flame]

i'd say one of the things i immediately notice about the scaling options is that they just have fewer than runelite and none of them end up looking as well as my runelite settings because of it

[sour kelp]

idk if this is renderer specific

[rough vector]

will the renderer beta come to runelite?

[sour kelp]

no

[flint harness]

Official client

[meager flame]

like this is what you get with runelite

[sour kelp]

i never noticed that the windows scaling also scales the client window

[signal moth]

anyone elses glory amulet look gold while wearing it

[sour kelp]

just use neariest neighbour its the only good one

[timber drift]

xbr is either really good or really shit no inbetween

[rough vector]

yeah i think im on nearest neighbour on my laptop with no graphics card

[meager flame]

and this is generally what jagex gets you

it really depends on your setup which one actually works

[vague viper]

Believe this is one of our known issues, stretching the game image?

[coral drift]

How do I post images? I was about to ask a question but want to show the example. I can't just drag into chat.

[signal moth]

disabled

[coral drift]

basically, after the update, I'm forced to see more levels of verticality. Strange.

[vague viper]

You need a certain rank to share pics, but if it's new renderer bug related you can post an image with your report in that forum space no matter the perm

[coral drift]

I mean it's not a bug i don't think? I'm just confused.

[vague viper]

Draw distance currently does not work and is always set to max.

Sounds like this maybe?

[sour kelp]

uh its like if windows scalling is at 200%, itll make the minium res of the client twice the size it normally would be, so 1528x989. It will autoset to that as a minium if its below that either way

[hasty shard]

i kinda wish the game just had actual scaling, like larger inventory icons for larger resolutions

[meager flame]

ya that would be ideal

[hasty shard]

its like, very evidently designed to do that easy is the thing

im surprised its not been done yet

[meager flame]

rather than trying to scale everything you could just adjust individual pieces of the ui

it would be great

[hasty shard]

not even in runelite pretty sure, like iirc they do have access to that

[last onyx]

doubled fps to 400+ in dense areas

[sour kelp]

also i can shuffle the window around while resizing it, idk if there are because of the client update or not

it does seem to exist before i have an old client exe so its prob just windows being strange

[last onyx]

fps difference with new render on 151 -> 489

[vague viper]

Interesting, could you pop this into a bug report thread in #1392089609223143526 please? and let us know your device info?

[sour kelp]

yeah i can do ill just test 8k in the only way i can, cause ive noticed before that it wouldnt render past 4k

[vague viper]

Yeah we're thinking it might not actually be a new renderer issue and you've just spotted a general bug haha any extra info you can give is super helpful, still pop it in that forum space for now though

[drifting valley]

Moment i teled to ge my game crashed

[sour kelp]

ooo it does weird things

[drifting valley]

Tried 3 times to login but keeps crashing everytime i login

Had to disable the renderer

Everything back to normal

[signal moth]

welcome to my world.

[drifting valley]

If this is how the renderer will be on actual release ill just quit

[ember token]

good news, it's a beta

not the final release

[drifting valley]

Cant even login anymore on it without crashing

[sacred oracle]

What's the best way to get feedback on a non-rendered bug? I've reported a bug a couple of times in the last few months, and I don't know how to get any feedback on if it's a bug, if I'm just crazy, if I should keep reporting it, etc

[drifting valley]

Its beta yeah but they cant just make it not crash for my device

[sacred oracle]

Any word would be nice, even if it's just "we're working on it" or "this bug exists" so I know it's real

[drifting valley]

Its gona crash regardless, its a non fix thing

Gona have to buy a flasgship 1k phone to play now

[alpine cairn]

Why would you throw an update knowing it’s all bugged out? And telling us how buggy it is on the update post? ._.

[sacred oracle]

The thing about bugs is you don't know they're there

[drifting valley]

Its not a bug problem for me

Its a frame problem

[sacred oracle]

That's why you release it in beta so people can play it and tell you what bugs are there

[alpine cairn]

Its all writen down on the update post

[sacred oracle]

Right, those are the known bugs that they're working

It's not finished yet

[alpine cairn]

They do know all the missing stuff cuz they wrote them down

[sacred oracle]

And now they have a beta so we can find other bugs

[drifting valley]

Idk how to explain it any better

[signal moth]

every update has some bugs. they're looking for feedback its not final

[drifting valley]

Its not a bug

Its a frame problem

My device just cant handle the new tech

I wish it was a bug

[signal moth]

i feel y a

[alpine cairn]

But like 20? And writing them down as an update? 🤣 gagex logic

[sacred oracle]

They have to put the known bugs, otherwise more people would report it

They don't need reports for those bugs

[drifting valley]

20 huh?

[sacred oracle]

They want reports for bugs they don't know about

It wouldn't make sense not to list the known bugs

[solemn coral]

It definitely can be a bug. Sometimes optimization is buggy and or just doesn't work well in betas. Report the frame issue's so it gets optimized better.

[ember token]

performances issues are also just a part of the beta, they'll fix them where they can

[last onyx]

As always: EXPERIMENTAL

[vague viper]

Heyo, like I have said before, it's a beta, we're in a test version, it's not how it will be when it's the full release. If you're getting full crashes please open a new thread in the #1392089609223143526 and let us know where the crash happened, where you were teleporting to/from, and any device info you can please

[alpine cairn]

Test your things before lunching them honestly wow

[true talon]

These people seem like they never been part of a experiment or test lol.

[signal moth]

i wonder if jagex has a dated computer / phone to play test some updates on

[sacred oracle]

It's not a launch. It's a beta

[alpine cairn]

“Beta launch”*

[sacred oracle]

It is literally supposed to have bugs at this point

[solemn coral]

an optional beta at that. You can wait for other people to find and report the bugs.

[sacred oracle]

That's the entire point

[true talon]

what better way to test than turn it over to the user? and let them check or find issues considering you have 200k users who can give feedback, compared to a few QA testers, not to mention its optional.

[alpine cairn]

Oh so their missing staff? Ah poor jagex

[true talon]

no?

they arent missing staff lol. its a better method to garner feedback.

[sacred oracle]

You don't seem to be reading the things people are saying to you and just want to slam Jagex. Which is fine. But in this particular case, it's silly, because what you're saying makes no sense and betrays a total lack of understanding of the software release process

This is pretty normal stuff.

[last onyx]

there will be a test bench for it yes

[chrome lantern]

Is it on by default? Haven’t been on yet

[ember token]

no

[chrome lantern]

Yeah then it’s fine

[true talon]

Ya the people QQin are just the stick in a wheel bicycle meme.

[alpine cairn]

You should read the news blog aswell

[chrome lantern]

Remember the part where they said don’t do risky stuff on it yet because it has issue

That should be fine as long as you don’t complain when you do busy stuff and it has issues

[true talon]

"that sign cant stop me, because i cant read!"

[alpine cairn]

QQ

[frail bough]

"Why would you release bugs, just don't!" 🤦‍♂️

[drifting valley]

Maybe im crashing/losing frames cuz the new renderer has view distance set to max...i have mine set to 0 on the old renderer cuz i lose frames if i increase it even a bit

[alpine cairn]

A blog full of bugs kinda kinda weird tbh

[sacred oracle]

It's known issues

[frail bough]

bruh lol

[sacred oracle]

So people don't report them

[alpine cairn]

Todays update: b”ugs”

[ember token]

Jagex doesn't have every single possible device to test the new renderer on and they have to make it available for the public to test to find issues they otherwise wouldn't be able to. There's so many different types of phones and devices and setups that they can't realistically test every situation on their own

[true talon]

its not a bugged release, if its a release to beta test and check for bugs, lol

[sacred oracle]

When you release a beta and you want people to find bugs, it's reasonable to post the bugs you already know about so people don't waste your and their own time sending detailed bug reports for those things.

This is very normal.

[frail bough]

The concept is very simple. Rather than holding off on fixing things that will likely have issues across multiple devices, you simply release it saying you know about them so development doesn't slow down.

This is very common. Like, everywhere.

[sacred oracle]

I don't understand what is hard to understand about that.

[frail bough]

If you wait to release until things are perfect, you will never release anything - simple as.

[solemn coral]

At this point i think hes being intentionally obtuse about the matter.

[frail bough]

Yeah I think so.

[true talon]

strategic planning and testing doesnt exist in fast food

[visual nest]

Think it’s a call for help

Ignore him and he will go away

[alpine cairn]

What is it so hard to understand that we are just saying that the update is just bugs

[signal moth]

the whole game has bugs

[drifting valley]

For the love of everything please make the new renderee have 0 view distance by default instead of max, i cant even test it lol without crashing

[frail bough]

But how is that helpful if you aren't posting details on them in #1392089609223143526

[sacred oracle]

Okay, I'm out, this isn't fruitful

[vague viper]

Guys pls this isn't really constructive anymore, I'm sorry you're not happy that there's bugs with our beta, just don't play with it until it's at full launch, that's fine too 🙂

[drifting valley]

The launch is whats scaring me the most, cuz atm im able to play and even boss on mobile..but if my device still cant handle it later im screwed

[meager flame]

you are testing it by finding out it doesn't work

thats why the beta exists

[drifting valley]

This does not help me lol

[vivid ruin]

Dont boss with render beta

[vague viper]

Yes but atm we're in early stages and full of bugs, we're literally telling you that right now you probably shouldn't do things like bossing until we have come out of beta

[vivid ruin]

Ezpz

[frail bough]

Report the bug like you already have and wait until it's fixed.

There's nothing to help you, just wait.

[signal moth]

oh so when its relased you're saying you might not be able to play properly with it being updated

[vague viper]

We're going in circles now, it'd be really helpful for me if we could move back to discussing the update itself, reporting bugs, giving feedback etc

[vivid ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/leespoons-u-wot-m8-gif-14609294

[drifting valley]

Yes, cuz my device clearly cant handle the new tech...im gona have to get a new phone

[alpine cairn]

Yes

[signal moth]

cross that bridge when you come to it

[true talon]

but you can turn it off..........

[meager flame]

but yeah the first things i noticed compared to using the runelite gpu plugin were just the ui scaling modes are a little lacking and there aren't really enough frame limit caps for 2025

[signal moth]

hes talking in the future once hd releases.

[drifting valley]

Only for now yes , not when its fully launched

[true talon]

they didnt say it wont be toggleable once launched......

[meager flame]

now that increased performance will be more normal you probably want a custom cap option or to at least support some common ones like 120, 144, 200, 240 etc

[sacred cove]

I would hope that when it's officially released they will allow you to change some settings to make it easier to run, like reduced the rendered area and what not.

[drifting valley]

Its perm bro...once it launches this old one we use will be gone

[violet sigil]

Get a better device then

[vague viper]

When fully launched, it will just be the standard, and you'll be able to shift between this and HD. But the whole point is we won't come out of beta if it's still causing issues

[frail bough]

Eventually*

[true talon]

i have a iphone11 and it runs just fine....

[marble stream]

New renderer makes the lines of heat in the tzhaar area look like a tripping hazard, I took a video of the difference. Pm me and I’ll send it

[drifting valley]

Mines a galaxy a04, been playing osrs on it for years and even boss on it just fine without issues

But idk now

They needa reduce the max distance atleast...maybe thats why im crashing and losing frames like hell

[signal moth]

honestly though jagex are the best at keeping requirements low.

[meager flame]

theres basically a 0% chance that when its in full release you wont be able to adjust render distance

[vague viper]

Max draw distance is a known issue, it'll be fixed for launch

[drifting valley]

Yeah but i just dont know if the max distance thing IS the issue for me

[frail bough]

This might be a transparency related thing? It looks very odd though lmao

[drifting valley]

Cant test it properly

[meager flame]

idk how they plan on rolling things out

but i'd be surprised if they just go from here to full release

[marble stream]

Possibly, even the true tile goes above it as if it was a rock or something

[meager flame]

im assuming there will be further changes to it

[signal moth]

if your device is unplayable for the beta then you wont be able to diagnose the problem

[drifting valley]

Exactly what im saying

[marble stream]

Maybe they need to add some flow to it, make it dim and glow as if it was something like a candle

[last onyx]

custom fps would be nice

[vague viper]

Absolutely this, we'll be doing fixes as we go along

[sour kelp]

done, put all 3 into one cause theyre all not renderer specific really (just one is different with new sd)

[left wolf]

I've give it ago it seems to run fine on Mac M2

Even without a fan on my MBA

Little rendering issue with helms ect..

Looks good though

[drifting valley]

Can u please fix the max draw distance first so that we can atleast test out the beta without crashing upon login, would really help i think

[solemn coral]

This isn't inherently related to the renderer, Think its a jagex client thing? But being able to limit you fps to whatever you want would be nice. rn it gos from 60 to unlimited

[frail bough]

When providing tech specs on what you're using, there is the option for the company to get the device and do testing to fix the bugs that are occurring. A little information can go a long way.

[vague viper]

I can't really promise what will get fixed in what order I'm afraid, it'll also depend how big of a job each thing is, but I hear ya on wanting it fixed and will definitely put it as feedback

[drifting valley]

Id like the max draw distance to be set at 0 by default upon using the renderer

[marble stream]

Maybe make the max draw something that’s on a bar that sets the amount you can draw.

[drifting valley]

U cant use it in beta

Its already set to 0 for me. But the draw distance is like if it was on max settings

Its a total crash fest for me

[marble stream]

Ahh so there is one already gotcha

[last onyx]

i previously spoke to Ash about client updates and he said everything is ideally bundled due to approvals etc on app store (I believe this was the case- was a long time ago), is this clear to the community that fixes may not be immediate? I believe he said each update could take anything from 4 to 8 weeks for publishing

[marble stream]

Didn’t even see it in the settings my bad 😂

[drifting valley]

It dosent work though

Its set to 0, but the distance is like maxed out in game

[marble stream]

I see that, just tried to max it out and nothing changed

[signal moth]

maybe there a command for it

[drifting valley]

Yes, its maxed even if u lower he bar to 0

[vague viper]

In the new renderer beta it is currently stuck at max no matter what your settings are at

This is a known issue

[true talon]

@vague viper its been 2 months now, any idea on when we can put stuff in death's coffer thats from yama lol.

[solemn coral]

What area are you in? Id try to move to a less intensive are and see if that fixes the crashing? I know fossil island and prif have always been a bit more intensive

Move somewhere without the beta on*

[drifting valley]

I was in giants foudry, was getting frames like i was playing on a blackberry, but as soon as i teled to G.E crashed right away, and everytime i tried logging in id crash over and over...had to disable the renderer

Its most likely cuz the draw distance is set to max, (i play on 0 distance)

But i cant reduce the view distance on new renderer so i cant test the beta to even find out if it works or not

[frail bough]

You already tested it. Draw distance is highly related to frame issues. Giants foundry is a tiny place to render things and you were already experiencing issues. It's very probable that GE crashed your device because you were already experiencing issues in somewhere less resource intensive to begin with.

[drifting valley]

Yes

[frail bough]

Yep

[terse mural]

Hi guys, the new update has locked me out of mobile. I've installed and uninstalled. Nothing works.

[frail bough]

What does lock you out mean? Logging in issues, banned, crashing? etc

[drifting valley]

I just hope they can fix it...i like the current renderer...its worked well for me for years

[last onyx]

would like some more keywords added for the side bar, I always forget what its called

[terse mural]

It just doesn't let me log in

[compact flicker]

Did mobile get the new renderer too?

[frail bough]

So you click the login button and what happens

[fair comet]

What do you mean though? Do you have a screenshot

[last onyx]

doesn't really popout of anything...

[terse mural]

I click the login button and it cancels it basically

[drifting valley]

Yes, and its a nightmare for lower end devices

[last onyx]

more of a side panel

[left wolf]

What phone is it?

or mobile*

[compact flicker]

Yeah mine barely runs as is lol, I won't enable it

[terse mural]

Pixel 8 pro

[fair comet]

Try asking in #technical-support

[terse mural]

Oh thanks

[left wolf]

I wonder if on Android you can clear data in the settings

[drifting valley]

Crashing upon login with my samsung galaxy a04

I just wana cry

[compact flicker]

Wew

[unreal shell]

Hmm no antialiasing on new renderer

[frail bough]

There should be, I'd double check.

[unreal shell]

Not an option on mobile it seems

[vague viper]

Hey sorry, new renderer is on mobile yes 🙂 if you're not seeing it make sure to update to 231.2

[unreal shell]

The brightness and saturation seems to be amped up too

[signal moth]

once its update the app will be blue

[compact flicker]

Thanks! Just being careful not to turn it on by accident, low end tablet so it'll freeze up

[vague viper]

Fair!

[frail bough]

@vague viper Idk if you remember but those deadzone settings on mobile are gone again. Last time uninstalling and reinstalling worked but pointing it out just in case.

^ doing this now

Yes, re-installing shows the deadzone option again.

[amber lance]

I'm just curious, I tought it would include the hd mode, why isn't that included in this beta?

[left wolf]

When this gets a bit closer, it might be worth while having a Beta World that HCIM's and PKers can use to not bug hunt at the detriment of their HCIM status ect...

Might allow for a wider slice of the demographic to test it properly.

[frail bough]

I do see "off, x2, and x4" anti alias setting options on my device at the moment

[unreal shell]

It may be specific to iOS then

[frail bough]

I am on android so possibly

[vivid ruin]

I see it on android

[plush gull]

is the ctrl M thing only for official client? its not working for me on runelite. hope they add hotkeys for quick prayers too, i play without data orbs and not being able to check map is the biggest drawback

[frigid canopy]

Imo I would love to try this new renderer on desktop but as long as the official client does not support plugins I'll stay on runelite.

[signal moth]

ctrl m works on lite

[amber lance]

ah i see

[marble stream]

There are some dead tiles near the little volcanic vents in the tzhaar areas that weren’t there yesterday

[tawny tide]

WEAK update

But it’s okay 😔

Blossom can you yell across the hall to account recovery and ask them to respond to troglebroll’s email 🙏

[unreal shell]

Shadows aren’t appearing at duke. I assume it would be the same at toa

They are appearing, but very faint and flickering

[amber lance]

@vague viper Is there any estimate for when the hd will have a beta? (will it even have a beta) I've been so stoked to see that since it was announced. I think many are.

[last onyx]

there is a perfomance boost though

[amber lance]

I'm running a 5070 ti, shouldn't matter for me haha

[vague viper]

I'm a long way from that hallway, but also it's not really how it works I'm afraid

[last onyx]

you'll be surprised, type ::displayfps ingame and toggle render on and off

[vague viper]

Not one I can share right now I'm afraid but things are moving don't worry 😄

[tawny tide]

Had to shoot my shot

[signal moth]

there has to be a list of all console commands somewhere right for the client?

[vague viper]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Debug_Console

[amber lance]

Is anything over 60 fps even necessary?

[frail bough]

depends on monitor

[amber lance]

i have 180 hz

but then again

this is a point and click game

[last onyx]

Matching refresh rate is, but yeah I hate not being able to limit it to that

[drifting valley]

I just set view distance to max with old renderer and i am losing frames but im not crashing at all like on the beta renderer...so this tells me its not a view distance issue ..i thought this new renderer was supposed to increase performance in fps for lower end devices...im so confused as to what is happening

[amber lance]

Anyway I tried it for a few seconds, but the brightness kinda kills it for me

it just looks weird

[night ravine]

@vague viper The new renderer seems to be squashing the game horizontally in some weird ways when changing the window size. for example, if I open XP Tracker. This behaviour isn't present on Old Renderer.

I have screenshots but im not able to post them

[last onyx]

the day we go from a sprite UI to a dynamic one, I'll stop using xBR integer scaling on RuneLite

[amber lance]

especially the water looks terrible, I'm sure they are testing for different aspects, but everything looks to 'sharp' for me to enjoy my barb fishing grind to 99

[last onyx]

i can't stand the blurry UI scaling on linear etc

[vague viper]

Yeah it's a known issue I'm afraid!

[ember token]

only difference with the water is that it's slightly brighter

[amber lance]

@vague viper For how long will this beta run?

I'd like to hop in after most of the annoying bugs are suashed

[analog veldt]

Does anyone know if the new renderer/hd & api will be useable on runelite once it is done?

[frail bough]

No, it will not.

[amber lance]

I'm guessing no

[vague viper]

It's ongoing until we can come out of beta 🙂 bugs will be fixed as we go along

[amber lance]

it says in the news page

[vague viper]

All three of these things are official client only 🙂

[last onyx]

RuneLite one day will become obsolete 🙂

[plush gull]

its not working for me even though i have the setting enabled, is it cmd m on mac

[amber lance]

I really hope the plugin api comes out along with the hd mode

then I can ctrl + alt + delete runelite

[last onyx]

Once java client is dead, we will see a large number of bots drop (for a period of time)

[vague viper]

So I wana set expectations here, these are two very big projects, they won't be releasing at the same time.

[amber lance]

ty for managing my hopium

[chilly summit]

Is this new render supposed to make your client HD?

I can tell no difference… 😂

[plush gull]

yeah the ctrl+m is just straight up not working for me on macos runelite even after disabling some potentially interfering plugins

[vague viper]

Nope

[signal moth]

not yet

[chilly summit]

Ahh right 🙂

[vague viper]

The point is for as little difference as possible right now! 😄

[amber lance]

for me it works

[chilly summit]

I was expecting like rune lite HD

[amber lance]

i'm not sure what macros runelite is however

[plush gull]

are u pressing control M or command M

[amber lance]

ctrl

[plush gull]

do u know what a mac is

[amber lance]

ah

i read macros

maybe try options

[ancient ember]

It is functional on RuneLite as well, but there may have been an oversight meaning it doesn't function with orbs disabled. Thanks for raising this, I've flagged it to the team!

[chilly summit]

Oh man, I can’t believe it I got hyped up thinking they was actually making a update on the graphics of the game to login to find out you hit the HD render and it only adds a few blocks on a building?

[signal moth]

does the offical client have a low detail toggle or radio button

[amber lance]

it is how it is

[vague viper]

It's not the HD renderer, its a new renderer that we need to put in place that will become the standard renderer which is how we maintain the classic old school look. Then we can add HD as a togglable option

[amber lance]

let them cook

[chilly summit]

So HD option will becoming then?

[signal moth]

jagex cooking level 99 at this point considering all the updates we've had since godwars lol we in good hands.

[analog veldt]

It's a step forward, progress is welcomed

[amber lance]

this is huge

[vague viper]

When we're ready for it to come out yes 🙂

[chilly summit]

Ahh great! I really want that HD option 🙂

[amber lance]

It will probably release before sailing I'm guessing

[flint harness]

Is it possible to get a an insight on it from mod gengis on it in a week or so? (:

[amber lance]

so I think 3 months give or take

not 100% sure when sailing is planned to release

[signal moth]

i'd rather them take extra time/steps towards sailing and not release it just yet.

[vague viper]

Hahah we love Gengis but even he can't really share the specific details on it! I'll be sorting out a blog post update over the next few weeks though, shooting for early August to update you on where everything's at

[analog veldt]

The official client runs so well. I can't wait for the plugin api. Does anyone know what kinds of plugins we will be getting on the official client? Will we have something like official Jagex plugins and community approved plugins designed by creators & players?

[signal moth]

does the developer world have sailing currently

[brittle dagger]

How do get in contact with someone from the dev team? I have found a bug that could be a problem for people who get their accounts compromised even if they have a bankpin...

[compact flicker]

You can email [e-mail]

It's a non reply inbox though but your best bet after already reporting it ingame

[sour kelp]

can we get live advice from Gengis

sorry if my reports are like really spefic things ive just looked and analysed how the game looks for the wiki that i pixel peep everything, like i know that java, offical and runelite gpu all have different brightness on the same setting and also move the view angle in different ways, i know this because it makes direct comparisons impossible to do

[quiet plank]

Please fix lumbridge castle
I can't even find the trapdoor to the basement😭

I clicked on the cooking range instead

[sour kelp]

is it invisible?

[lapis shuttle]

perilous moon bosses are half-rendering and when the eclipse spawn the traveling orb there are a lot of artifact orbs that appear for a moment. makes it more exciting to say nothing else

[true talon]

Guys report the render issues to the correct channel

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1392089609223143526

[thick beacon]

ye i couldint notice a diffrence between render/no render

i play osrs though so subtle graphic changes prob go beyond me

will we be able to play hd though with runelite on jagex launcher?

[sour kelp]

no

[thick beacon]

is there any plans of ever making that a reaility?

[sour kelp]

no runelite is based on the java client which they are no longer focusing on as the main client

[minor whale]

They're likely going to attempt to reach feature parity with RL because of the plugin API they're developing

So in the future hopefully there's just not a reason to use RL

I really wish they'd have gotten at least a bank/tagging system for main client before doing all these tests. It's the biggest thing by far that I just can't stand with vanilla

[shadow wave]

The new renderer is written in C++ IIRC, hence why Runelite can't use it as Runelite is java based

[minor whale]

I don't mind missing some of the other more niche plugins, but lack of any sort of tag or invent setup ability just kills my desire to do any pvm

[sour kelp]

i cant handle runelite not letting me hide the minimap

[plush gull]

i wish u could hide minimap on runelite too

[drifting valley]

You must have a great phone then

For lower end devices the renderer is not playable

Frames and crashes beyond belief

Its pretty much a downgrade in every way

Insane

They just didnt optimize it for lower end devices

Unreal

[native mortar]

👀

[drifting valley]

And i was excited for the "better performance"

[sour kelp]

prob didnt consider worse gpu situations than whatever minimun they had

[potent warren]

Does the official client support resizing of HUD elements ?
If yes i might consider running it when i don't 100% need a specific runelite plugins.

[sour kelp]

on pc yes

in interfaces there is a bar for scaling, but only nearest nearbour at 200% looks good

[potent warren]

Ayyyy, yeah that works. Nice nice.

[sour kelp]

but it does also work with fixed mode, itll scale the whole thing up by 200% and the render window is just higher res

[drifting valley]

High cpu usage and mobile being unplayable unless you have a solid phone seems to be the trend here

Looks like ill invest in a rtx 5090 and a samsung galaxy s23 ultra to play

And these arent even bugs

They just made better performance to high end devices only

Which is opposite to what they advertised in the blog

[sour kelp]

but this is one of the main reasons to hold this beta, theyll gonna get infomation from a much wider source of devices

[drifting valley]

They said high end devices will notice a bit better performance and lower end devices will see a "substantial difference"

I guess they were right on that regard cuz i notice a huge diff alright....

In a bad way

[frail bough]

HAHAHA

[drifting valley]

I guess i got fooled again

Silly me

[sour kelp]

its also to note they dont have render distance working which is probably also contributing

[frail bough]

They already know this.

as in saling passed knows this

[drifting valley]

That ant the issue, i have a reason why

[frail bough]

they've been on this for 2+hours

despite already having given feedback

[drifting valley]

I maxed out distance in the old renderer and i am not crashing at all, i am losing frames which is normal but overall i am worse with new renderer

[sour kelp]

render distance would be an issue because its calling many more draw calls which is always going to be more work for your phone

its only going to exaggerate any issue the new renderer will have

[drifting valley]

Why are they making lower end devices work harder....isnt the whole goal of this update was to make our experience better

With less phone burn

[sour kelp]

it is not their intention to do it, but theyre doing this beta to have everyone be able to test on any device rather than what they have access too

[frail bough]

Just as a heads up, you're definitely breaking rule #2 btw, would definitely tread carefully #rules message

[drifting valley]

Im not spamming or pinging j mods...im giving out facts to help them

[frail bough]

You've given the feedback in 2 forum posts and have been spamming the same message over the last 2 hours

"...repeatedly copy & pasting the same statements..." is part of rule 2

[drifting valley]

No i have not, i came with new info here after testing out draw distance in old renderer

You may not like it but this is important info

For them

[frail bough]

I must have missed where you posted the new information, thats my bad.

[drifting valley]

You did

Scroll up and read

[neon gate]

Is it confirmed if one Moon Key will be sufficient to fight the Delve Boss at launch, or will we need multiple?

[green pewter]

Why would we need moon keys to fight the delve boss? Did I miss something

[shadow wave]

Imagine needing to do 1500 hours of Huey to do the delve boss

[real bluff]

When are they going to add in WASD support for moving the camera in official client?

[small anvil]

Hmm I'm on 231.1 and it sounds like I shouldn't be in any rush to grab the new renderer on mobile

[torpid delta]

wizzy just still has ptsd from yama contracts, don't worry about it

[plush gull]

yama contracts are so cheap now and a basically bis setup for them costs under 200m, just idk why they had to make only certain people allowed to attempt them for first 2 months instead of letting everyone try them on release

glad theyre never doing that again and changing awakeners orbs!

also the purging staff req and near max magic dmg thing for divine severance is weird

yama feels kinda off in general

[vivid ruin]

So you're saying the market finally settled a few months later like normal. Ok

[plush gull]

yama is also pretty ping-dependent compared to other bosses, with several optimisations that u have to react to same tick. hope they add those extra region servers soon

[shy gorge]

Hi all, question about the mimic dry streak protection (although maybe this is for the jmods), and apologies for asking this everywhere:

It says that if you haven't received a mimic or received the music track, you're guaranteed a mimic fight on the 25th elite clue or the 10th master. I got a mimic fight on an elite clue a while ago, but didn't fight it because I would have been killed very easily at that point. Have I lost out on the guaranteed fight, or do I still get the guaranteed fight since I didn't unlock the music track?

[quartz anchor]

inferno and colo are 1tick depedent, skull skipping is 1tick dependent, whisperer and leviathan also have some points where there is a 1 tick window, more so than yama.

[plush gull]

theres nothing in inferno that requires same tick reaction besides clicking nibblers on spawn

same with colo besides perfect dodging sol enrage pools and 0ting fremmy on spawn like nibblers

[frail bough]

what in yama requires same tick reaction?

[quartz anchor]

if you know the yama fight nothing requires a same tick reaction either

[plush gull]

mostly just the overhead text for p2 fireballs

[fossil epoch]

ngl i think the fastest way to find out, is to reach the milestone and see if you get it

[plush gull]

but being a tick late on being able to react to fireglass patterns is kinda annoying too

its just optimisations

[quartz anchor]

count his basic attacks and you know when its coming

[frail bough]

🤦‍♂️

[plush gull]

u wont know if its fireball or void flares

[quartz anchor]

yes you will

[shy gorge]

makes sense, I have 15 master clues done so I've barely passed that threshold

[quartz anchor]

nothing in that boss is RNG

[plush gull]

yes it is lmao, hourglass patterns are RNG too

[quartz anchor]

no, they're patterned

[fossil epoch]

well complete 1 masterclue and you will know then

[quartz anchor]

and you have 2 ticks to respond

[frail bough]

They also dont require 1 tick reaction

[quartz anchor]

you're talking about a 1 tick reaction time

you're over inflating this issue to fit your narrative

[frail bough]

And also to fix your ping issues, just move countries.

[quartz anchor]

^

[plush gull]

no its random whether they are horizontal or vertical

[quartz anchor]

but you know exactly when its coming and you have 2 ticks to react

[plush gull]

thats fair

[vivid ruin]

This dude is the only person who has been complaining about yama since release

[plush gull]

p1 and p2 are still random when it comes to which glyph u have more of and when void flares come out tho

[quartz anchor]

no

if purple is close to throne, its void, if red is close to throne its fire

[plush gull]

void flares can come out on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th glyph in p1

[frail bough]

Also it still doesn't matter because its not 1 tick

[quartz anchor]

if red is close to throne you start fight with pray range for p1&2 start and pray mage for p3.... if purple is close to throne, pray mage to start p1&2 and pray range to start p3

[quartz anchor]

nope

[shy gorge]

I know, I'm just impatient :/

[quartz anchor]

if you're getting to the 4th glyph , you need to learn how to increase your dps

[frail bough]

Please don't say that

they are going to start sending their in-game screenshots

[quartz anchor]

lululul

[vivid ruin]

Isnt your name against the servers new rules?

[quartz anchor]

I never make it to 4th glyph with blue moon and an emberlight on my iron

[plush gull]

that doesnt change that what u said is blatantly rong... but glad we've established that...

[quartz anchor]

I"m assuming he's not doing it solo because he would understand how to actually fight it

[plush gull]

anyway... almost none of that involves same-tick reactions that are more meaningful than yama optimisations... besides nostun leviathan

[frail bough]

When araxxor came out, I did the fight for 20 minutes on my first KC for the epic PB. I don't recommend trying that in other places.

And definitely not after the first kc

[quartz anchor]

you have more ticks to react to yama since you know its coming so you can prep it, instead of pure reaction time to the such of leviathan tbh

if you're getting caught off guard by yama, you don't know what you're doing

skill issue

[plush gull]

i dont think u even know what im talking about

[frail bough]

lol

I think you got lost in your own sauce 🤷‍♂️

[quartz anchor]

doesn't matter what you're talking about

there is nothing that can catch you off guard in yama if you know what you're doing

there is nothing that requires more than a 2 tick reaction

[plush gull]

it really doesnt seem to matter to u, "yama has no rng" "yes yama has rng but..."

nothing requires same tick reactions besides nostun levi

[quartz anchor]

you're talking about p1& p2 struggles

and 1 tick reaction

which is abhorrently false

[frail bough]

but like, how optimized is dying because you think you need to 1 tick react

[plush gull]

nope... u derailed into blatantly false statements and i engaged with u

doesnt change what i originally said

[quartz anchor]

if you know the fight, you know exactly when flares can spawn, and how many attacks into the fight

if you're getting caught off guard, its literally a skill issue

I can pet my dog and still react in time to anything yama can offer

[frail bough]

They did state that it was based off of optimizations requiring same tick reactions but I'd argue that if you are complaining about it you should maybe just not do that.

[quartz anchor]

it's the easiest mid game boss the game has

[plush gull]

i mean if u have 250 ping u straight up cant, and it makes no difference to still being able to do the fight but its still annoying

[frail bough]

Yes, the game is annoying with high ping. That is a given 👍

[quartz anchor]

you ahve 2 ticks to react

you can react 1 tick late

so waht are you doing with the other 950ms

[frail bough]

Optimizations!

[frail nebula]

til there are 20 ticks per second

[tiny epoch]

what if u just run away from hourglass instead of perfect dodge if u have 300 ping

[plush gull]

🤦‍♀️

[tiny epoch]

[frail bough]

Idk why jagex even added ping to the game tbh

[frail nebula]

limiting the speed of light was such a stupid knee-jerk reaction

[plush gull]

im going back to practicing nostun levi bye

[frail bough]

truly

[tiny epoch]

unpolled changes..

[quartz anchor]

1tick= 600ms, 2 ticks = 1200 miliseconds or 1.2 seconds... 1200 miliseconds - 250ms ping = 950 ms.... hope this helps

[quartz anchor]

because he has 2 ticks to react, and he's just bad

[plush gull]

u dont understand what i was talking about... the whole point of things u have to react to same tick, is u have less than 600 ms - ping to react to, cuz u have to react the same tick the animation is starting to play.

go try to do nostun levi volleys on a world with over 200 ping by using a different region... its genuinely pretty much physically impossible, u dont have 400ms to react

[quartz anchor]

you were talking about p1&p2 and clamining reacting same tick. you don't have to react same tick

literally makes your entire argument null and void

p1&2 you ahve like 10 ticks to react

you can almost afk it comepletely

[plush gull]

literally the only same tick optimisation I mentioned was the text for p2 fireballs... can u just stop pinging me at this point...

[quartz anchor]

why are you using text to react to p2 fireball

the text isn't what is supposed to inform you of the attack

[frail bough]

The text is easier to see

[vivid ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/octopus-trollers-gonna-troll-troll-trolling-gif-22234933

[quartz anchor]

use a stop watch, and click start when the fight starts and use that time to react

people solo glyph skip p2 fireball by timing

without using the text to react

wanna know how they do it?

its cuz they know its coming

you know why?

its not random

[frail bough]

That was a lot of pings

[quartz anchor]

as I said, skill issue. you should not be getting surprised by fireball in p2, unless you're not paying any attention, in that case, the text still isnt saving you

[frail bough]

Idk how you no stun levi while also typing in discord, that's wild and possibly part of the problem.

[quartz anchor]

if you can't do that, just quit osrs at this point

[frail bough]

Fair.

[frail nebula]

it was a lot easier before they nerfed the speed of light

[plush gull]

another example of same-tick reaction is sol enrage pools. u dont have 400ms to react if u have 200 ping... because u have to react after the pool appears below u... and the sprite for is it not even loaded at the start of the tick. and then u have to click and have that click be processed.

for earlier pools u can eliminate RNG by clicking to move 5 tiles away the tick before his text appears

[frail bough]

🤦‍♂️

[quartz anchor]

that's a good example

unlike yama

[frail nebula]

at least they improved the melee pools at cerb

[plush gull]

it becomes unreasonably difficult to do same tick reactions like that after 100 ping and nearly impossible by 200 ping, which is why region servers are important for stuff like nostun levi

[frail nebula]

you used to have to react 1 tick in the past

[vivid ruin]

Jagex nerf time and space

[quartz anchor]

jagex nerfed my employment status ngl

[frail nebula]

integrity change my ass

[plush gull]

what timezone am i awake in right now... asking so i can avoid it

[frail nebula]

you aren't awake

this is a dream

[quartz anchor]

the logical one

[frail bough]

The one you need to move to.

[quartz anchor]

one that doesn't pander to feelings

[vivid ruin]

Your name is attacking a mod btw which is against server rules

[quartz anchor]

the vitriol community doesn't care

[frail nebula]

are you not also part of the vitriol community though

[quartz anchor]

no pronouns in my name

[frail nebula]

?

[true talon]

if you was a soul wars gold farmer, then yea

[frail bough]

What would happen if everything in osrs was untradable for a day/month/year

[frail nebula]

everyone realizes that ironman mode has always been the best way to play

[quartz anchor]

half the community would cry, half the ocmmunity wouldn't notice

[frail nebula]

and they convert to the one true game mode

[frail bough]

The...SUPERIOR game mode 😎

[tiny epoch]

iron man complain about their account restrictions nonstop until its time to try and convince mains to make an iron

[quartz anchor]

shit irons

[frail bough]

You know how they have no shave november

what if there was like "no trade tuesdays"

[quartz anchor]

we don't count green helms

[hard axle]

ngl, if everyone was an iron, you'd find out real quick how many people play just to feel special with a helm designation and you take that away by making everyone the same

[silent saffron]

thank you

I was wondering why it wasn't showing up for me

[fiery pecan]

Guys do marked tiles not persist after closing the client in the Official Client?

[frail bough]

They should.

I didn't look specifically after the update today though

[fiery pecan]

I've remarked this one tile in the Karuulm slayer dungeon like 3 times today

(wyrm safespot)

[torn tide]

Where can we report bugs with new renderer

Nvm found it

[gaunt wedge]

how do i unlock fps in the official client?

im using the new renderer and have limit fps setting set to unlimited in game settings

but im still locked at 50fps

[frail bough]

Are you for sure using the official client and not runelite?

[gaunt wedge]

yep

[frail bough]

What happens if you change your fps limit to 15

[gaunt wedge]

goes to 15

[hard axle]

::increasefps

[frail bough]

So it's not locked at 50 there htough

so probably just computer isn't super beefy

[gaunt wedge]

i get 200+ fps on runelite

[frail bough]

If you go somewhere like poh does it change or nah

[gaunt wedge]

nah

[gaunt wedge]

didnt do anything on my end

[frail bough]

I'd probably report it in game and in #1392089609223143526
There's probably some hardware you have that got forgotten about or something

[hard axle]

was joking

[gaunt wedge]

lol

[frail bough]

I get high frames in RL and official client increased at a minimum of 2x today for me so I'd assume something is maybe alittle goofy with your stuff

[gaunt wedge]

im on linux

im assuming thats likely the reason

[frail bough]

probably a safe bet

[true talon]

only restriction im upset with is the lack of methods to obtain certain consumables. lucky there is only like 3 key pain points.

[plush gull]

dragon darts and what

[timber drift]

Can just camo bbds for ddarts

Camp*

[rare grotto]

you would love this one solution

the grand exchange

👍

[timber drift]

knocks out arrows too

[plush gull]

how afk are those... its worse than vard and vorkath in terms of darts per hour

[timber drift]

pretty much just pick up loot and reaggro every 10 mins

antifire pray mage is full protection

and can just range so they only use their mage attack

per hour but really depends on what you kill them with

but yeah if you didnt want to be limited by resources........

[true talon]

so after 10 hours i will have a total of 450 d arrows if im lucky an roll that........

[timber drift]

other alternatives include amethyst arrows or the grand exchange

duke is 40kph now so thats roughly 200 arrows/h if you do perfect kills if you're out purely for arrows

[true talon]

Its just the RNG aspect thats the issue

[true talon]

That context is always behind drop rates and rairty of items not consumables

Consumables needs to be 100% if they are rng then they are difficult to sustain and turns a lot of your time in fishing for a rng drop so you can progress

Its why the key ironman painpoint items at the end game are blood shards and dragon arrows

[icy relic]

Dragon darts and now torstols

[timber drift]

why are they pain points they are powerful resources which are supposed to be used sparingly

esp blood fury you don't camp that (which is good because its a dumb item)

i dont think the rng really matters if there's something that drops a dragon arrowtip 100% of the time but you only get 25 per hour you still wouldnt kill it

same with stuff like prayer regens or goading pots, they are really powerful they should probably not be handed out willy nilly

oh colo also drops a lot of them i see

[icy relic]

Ironman is about resource management though, this is true

What do you absolutely need dragon arrows for anyway

[timber drift]

yeah, being self sufficient which implies you atleast manage your resources somewhat

[icy relic]

You don't need that many for colo

[timber drift]

i get it im farming scales rn to run more toa but its just part of the mode

[icy relic]

I saved dragon darts for inferno and ToB

[timber drift]

if you dont want resources to matter just pot main (in the nicest way possible)

[sacred oracle]

i don't know any ironmen who care about blood shards

they are always optional

i don't have any opinion on dragon arrows

[icy relic]

I think nerfing torstols after adding surge pots is kinda dumb but it's not the end of the world

[timber drift]

they are also optional :p

[sacred oracle]

i think nerfing torstols is smart and overdue

torstals crashed a crazy amount

[rare frost]

Until you realise it completely destroyed the herb economy for 80% of players

[sacred oracle]

down to a fifth of former value? worse?

i wish they hadn't taken that long to fix it

[crimson fossil]

They nerfed Tortola but I have 300+ seeds. We’ll be fine

[icy relic]

Shifting them out of ToA is fine

[crimson fossil]

Tortstols*

[timber drift]

toa seeds were a mistake from both iron and main perspective imo but wcyd

[icy relic]

They didn't make an alternative

[sacred oracle]

jagex kind of sits on their hands while stuff gets out of control and makes changes after all the damage has been irreversibly done

e.g., fang

[rare frost]

It's called farming

[sacred oracle]

no, it's not

[timber drift]

i think its fine toa was a one stop shop for all pvm pots and darts

[neon gate]

Nothing

Nothing at all

[timber drift]

it was honestly pretty stupid

[neon gate]

Dragon ammo is too important to use for any content ever

[timber drift]

might aswell have dropped brews and restores outright

[neon gate]

Same with sweets

[icy relic]

I just mean in terms of breakpoints

[neon gate]

Nothing expect mage camp colo frems where you need like 5

[sacred oracle]

guess when toa was released

[icy relic]

Right

[rare frost]

TBF the same happened with Tob and mahogany's, those things are dirty cheap for what they are

[sacred oracle]

ironmode is fine if people want to play it, but i am extremely opposed to iron concerns fucking the main game

please i beg let the main game that most people play be good

and not be palsied by endless iron concerns

[timber drift]

like what

[rare frost]

Loot Tables that instantly crash because the market has too many seeds and herbs and stuff in it

[icy relic]

kind of weird to be hating on irons when it's objectively a good metric of game health

when most main content is botted to shit

[frail bough]

Do you really need loot tables if you just kill the boss and unlock the items anyway

[icy relic]

if it's bad for irons it's usually bad for mains too

[rare frost]

Not true. Dt2 sucks for irons but mains love that kind of drop table

[icy relic]

the elephant in the room is that torstols are nowhere as powerful as they were in rs2

dt2 does not suck for irons what

[rare frost]

Orbs anyone?

[timber drift]

werent those seeds valuable before? if something doesnt have good common loot theres one account type that cares about that

(its not the accounts grinding for uniques)

[icy relic]

toa table was absolutely a mistake

[timber drift]

oh for sure

[icy relic]

but torstols just didn't have as many uses as they used to

in rs2 they were used for overloads and gave 1k exp

[rare frost]

No you need common loot to cover supplies on a main too, because uniques are rare

[timber drift]

see there we go

[icy relic]

so a combination of way too many entering the game and not enough uses for them made their value dogshit

just by adding surge pot they were already going to start going up

but the supply from toa did need to be pinched, not denying that whatsoever. they could go even further tbh

[frail bough]

pinch it all, then release digger, yay/nay?

[rare frost]

Muspah needed it too for sure

[icy relic]

I like 10x plant like in rs3 for, I'd actually be incentivized to burn some irit seeds

[small anvil]

Any drop table designed for irons to get the items in a "reasonable" amount of time means a flooded market for mains

That's the biggest issue for a lot of recent updates

[icy relic]

if it's not reasonable for irons, it's not a reasonable source of income for mains

[rare frost]

It's also stuff like coal or pure ess which are basically nothing drops for mains

[icy relic]

please abandon that mentality

meaning it will just be bot activity

[timber drift]

uniques need to be rare because otherwise the market is flooded but we also need a good supply of common drops otherwise mains dont turn a profit

do you see the problem here

[small anvil]

Those are nothing drops cuz there's too much dropped!

Profitability of content stays high when uniques stay valuable

[rare frost]

Why would I kill ajrbaha for 200k an hour if ahdheajs exists and is 10m

[small anvil]

Uniques stay valuable when the market has fewer of them than people that want them

[rare frost]

Like megarares

[timber drift]

yeah but you also want a good supply of common drops

[small anvil]

Rarity of drops is a good thing

For uniques

[timber drift]

but then the common drops will crash because people keep going for uniques

pick one

[rare frost]

Imo oath shards are perfect for this

[icy relic]

you realize jagex literally manipulates the supply of items to keep their value up

[small anvil]

Dt2 drop tables kept prices high cuz axe pieces weren't tradeable partly

[rare frost]

Mains get common loot, and irons get progress

[icy relic]

it's just wild that you're blaming irons for wanting reasonable drop rates and not bots

[rare frost]

I'm not blaming irons, I'm saying the two players groups want and need different things from drop tables, which is just true

[small anvil]

Iron catered drop tables is how we get moons completely tanking bandos prices

And they already did dry protection there

[rare frost]

Moons is a great example actually, the regular loot is ass for mains, no one uses swamp tar or harralanders

[small anvil]

Which is iron catering that doesn't affect the market as badly

[frail bough]

i think i just fail to see how moons is iron catered

[small anvil]

Unlike oath shards

[rare frost]

It's literally designed to be supply less

[small anvil]

Moons is absolutely iron catered

[icy relic]

maple seeds, water orbs

everything is catered towards midgame irons

[rare frost]

No main account content should be fully supply less imo, there needs to be risk/reward

[small anvil]

It's midgame progression that replaces gwd and has dry protection

[icy relic]

GWD isn't really midgame tbh

[timber drift]

im gonna be real tassets were gonna be devalued by anything even remotely good because they're a dogshit item

[small anvil]

It replaces gwd in gear progression

[icy relic]

which is fine, gwd is dogshit 20 year old content that requires shit way above its intended level bracket to farm

[small anvil]

You don't need to do gwd until you're buffing torva or need godswords now

[timber drift]

same as always

[icy relic]

and why are mains crying about gwd anyway when you can go send vardorvis

[small anvil]

I'm pointing out how iron catering affects the market

[rare frost]

Because one is a lot harder and needs better gear than the other lol

[timber drift]

you can do bandos with a rcb

most people dont do it because you dont need anything from it until you start doing toa

[small anvil]

Irons don't care about the market but they should realize that the things they ask for can have negative knock on effects for the rest of the game

[rare frost]

And then both sides kiss and make up

[small anvil]

Instead of blindly claiming that iron is the mode things should be built around

[icy relic]

it's not like irons begged jagex for moons in its exact format

jagex filled a niche in the game

[small anvil]

Jagex doing things for irons makes the market worse

[rare frost]

No but dragon ammo is something that annoys people and have asked to be fixed, when it's designed specifically to not be sustainable

[timber drift]

i agree, they should just remove supply drops from most stuff. irons will just grind the uniques anyway and mains get a healthy skilling economy and can still get gp from the uniques

[small anvil]

If you have a drop table that isn't dupe protected, a 3 item set takes 6 avg drops to complete iirc

[rare frost]

I also like every boss have some useful untradable for mains to get like the quartzs

[small anvil]

If getting 6 drops in a "reasonable" amount of time

[icy relic]

I think dragon ammo is pretty much fine for the phase of the game you use it

[small anvil]

You have a flooded market

Irons have to accept they signed up for the harder road

[timber drift]

so wait irons get rewarded coz they actually grind the content?

seems fi neto me

[small anvil]

And shouldn't be asking for the road to be easier

[icy relic]

I dunno why you're throwing these words around without attaching any concrete numbers behind them

[rare frost]

You can also go too far the other direction and be nex, where drops are insanely screwed for irons to maintain value for mains

[icy relic]

Most grinds in the game are very reasonable

[small anvil]

I'm not asking for nightmare v2.0

[timber drift]

you literally are

[small anvil]

Oath on release was silly common

[rare frost]

Yep

[small anvil]

No, I'm just saying that asking for reasonable for iron is not justified

[rare frost]

They literally admitted people were killing it faster than intended

[timber drift]

define reasonable

[small anvil]

Iron is an unreasonable mode

[icy relic]

Yama was a mistake, then they nerfed it and now it's around the same time between uniques compared to PNM

[small anvil]

They should have to do 1200 yama kc

[rare frost]

No come on

[timber drift]

but they have to?

i think 1200kc isnt even enough for completion but not 100% sure

[small anvil]

Yama is done in like 700 avg?

2 uniques and make one with shards

On rate for 3

Tass you got unlucky

[true talon]

nope, any table designed to be profitable for mains is going to crash the item into the ground due to bots.

[small anvil]

And weren't willing to break down the helms

[timber drift]

[[w:coupon collector problem]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupon_collector's_problem

[timber drift]

in short, the rate for a drop you want goes down the more drops you get from that boss

any oathplate is 3/600 for example (just using random numbers)

[true talon]

you dont get enough shards for a single craft untill around 1k they made shard rarer with the dossier change.

[small anvil]

There's dry protection

[timber drift]

if you get the first piece, getting a piece you want is 2/600

last is 1/600

[small anvil]

Is it 1k? I'm close at like 550 KC with 400 solo

I think

[timber drift]

there is dry protection but that doesnt mean you finish in the kc you said

[small anvil]

Don't have loot tracker open

[true talon]

solo speeds it up in kc required yes

[small anvil]

700 is on rate for 3.5 oath drops, odds are you get at least 2 uniques

And get enough shards for the last one

[icy relic]

Yama rates are fine, it's mostly the barrier to entry being too low imo

[timber drift]

700 solos is quite a lot of yama

[small anvil]

Maybe I didn't specify I meant solo kcs

Content should take a while to complete for bis melee armor!

[timber drift]

so as a main you are fine with doing 700 solos for 1 drop? 2 drops?

whats the cutoff here

[icy relic]

it does take a while to complete

[small anvil]

I've done 400 solo and 150 duo for 1 helm split and 3 horns and 1 acquisition contract

[timber drift]

im just trying to find a number you think is agreeable

[timber drift]

i mean thats not average

[small anvil]

The post release nerf is... On the low side of acceptable

[timber drift]

you cant use the average for iron then the anecdote for yourself

[small anvil]

Still a bit too common

[timber drift]

we call this cherrypicking

[small anvil]

Shards shouldn't have been tradeable too

[icy relic]

feels like you're splitting hairs over like 30 hours difference

the economy is not going to magically fix itself because it takes 30 hours longer to log yama

the problem goes beyond drop rates for irons

[small anvil]

They emergency nerfed it by like 20% right

I forget the specifics

[icy relic]

33%

[small anvil]

And it's still too common

Jesus

It was way too common lmao

[icy relic]

if the rate is complete dogshit for irons, it is not a reliable source of profit for mains either and likely floods the market with all the other things on the table. this is why things have to be realistically obtainable or else they turn into bot content where you power through the shit odds with the law of large numbers

like yeah I agree that yama is a bit too fast to complete because they used time to complete as a metric and compared it to nex/pnm

when you can't do that because those bosses have 50 things on the unique table so green logging them is significantly worse compared to a boss with only 4 uniques

but Yama is still like what, 12 hours between uniques

[small anvil]

I'm not saying it should be dogshit

It just shouldn't be easy

[icy relic]

which is pretty normal as far as big ticket drops go for mains

[timber drift]

i dont think the rarity is the issue tbh

[icy relic]

it is accessibility

[timber drift]

i think its too good for something you can get after 2 tormented demon tasks

[icy relic]

yama is chill to run and doesn't require megarares

if I spent the same amount of time doing 1k yama in cox or toa I'd probably have some sick purples too

[true talon]

you cant even go on rate for 1 roll in 2 demon tasks

[timber drift]

thank you for pointing that out, 3 tasks it is

major difference

[true talon]

i guess your forgetting about the 30 ancient shard requirement as well

[kind surge]

I mean demon tasks are very common so it doesn't really make a difference

[timber drift]

i dont think 30 ancient shards are a particular barrier to anyone

it really doesnt change anything

[true talon]

also you need a occult/tormented/+1 more magic % damage piece to 1 shot the flares

[timber drift]

you dont need to but yes it helps

thats still a very low barrier for torva adjacent armour

[true talon]

you can go to nex with a rcb and black d hide

[timber drift]

(in my opinion)

[icy relic]

it is indeed a very low barrier

[true talon]

i dont think it is, because torva is not even that much better than bloodmoon or bando's

[kind surge]

proportionally, you won't be contributing nearly as much as just using demonbane on yama

[true talon]

melee armor doesnt mean shit

[kind surge]

that's just a bad comparison

[icy relic]

torva is a bit overpriced for what it does but that's not good faith either lol

[timber drift]

just because it doesnt mean shit doesnt mean its not BIS

[kind surge]

rcb is nowhere near bis for nex, while td weapons are close to bis on yama

or they are

[icy relic]

if you're ragging nex you're never seeing anything to your name unless you hit the lottery

[kind surge]

yeah lol

[icy relic]

and you also won't have any brews either

[timber drift]

just do gigamass and turn your bwans into brews 🧠

just dont ask about the uniques

[icy relic]

[true talon]

Melee armor doesnt mean shit, its all in the rings/neck/cape/glove slot

[timber drift]

bis is still bis mate

[kind surge]

you should probably also include no melee armour in there if melee armour doesn't mean shit

[kind surge]

ring slot doesn't mean shit, it's all in the melee armour/necklace/cape/glove

that's like a solid 10% missing dps without melee armour

[austere mulch]

Why you using sol as the example when talking about Yama, where the bis weapon has a multiplier meaning that gear is more impactful there than content that doesn’t have said multiplier

[true talon]

im comparing the melee armors to itself, do you need me to add obsdian legs and torso which is free?

[true talon]

we werent talking about yama lol

we were talking bout yama's gear compared to the other melee gear in the game

[austere mulch]

.

[kind surge]

6% dps over void is fairly substantial

and yeah that's at sol

[austere mulch]

• even Jagex said that Yama is “perhaps too accessible/easy in base for its rewards”

[true talon]

i just had sol picked

[austere mulch]

So bam

[timber drift]

where'd they say that out of curiousity

[true talon]

ya i dont think thats true

[austere mulch]

Reddit a few times

[timber drift]

i mean i agree

but i havent seen them say it

[austere mulch]

Go through goblin’s and Arcane’s comment history

[true talon]

thats a jagex opinon not backed by data

[kind surge]

???

[austere mulch]

[true talon]

same person who said CA's were to rewarding?

[austere mulch]

Believe it or not, you can have one opinion that is generally agreed upon and another that is not

For instance, 90% of your takes on here nobody agrees with. But every now and then you’ll drop a gem

[timber drift]

also i dont think its a controversial take that the high CA tiers should mostly have flex rewards(if not all)

i think thats fairly popular even

[icy relic]

also oathplate disproportionately benefits scythe and they've been shilling scythe hard this last year or so

[austere mulch]

Being at near max dps in Arclight and moons gear for rewards, particularly the amor set, that is more often than not bis outright or by mixing pieces of it in

Sure sounds like it may be a bit too accessible

But it’s a tired point. Both the players and the devs acknowledged it

[timber drift]

gonna be a more common problem going forward with nichescape gonna be fun

[icy relic]

interesting dynamic going on with supply/demand

and contracts/shards pushing all 3 pieces to be worth exactly the same

I actually think that is really neat

as long as you hit any oathplate item it's 100m

[true talon]

I mean torva was drastically overpriced

[austere mulch]

Overvalued, sure. Overpriced, no

[true talon]

over 1b for 6 str bonus is kind of insane

[austere mulch]

Price* is based on demand and rate it enters the economy

[small anvil]

Why is the iron talking about the market prices

It wasn't overpriced because it was actually rare

Price is much more a function of rarity than demand (obviously both matter)

[timber drift]

in regards to torva?

yeah pretty sure its just giga rare chief

jagex even acknowledged this

[true talon]

price is a function of usability, demand, supply.
Literally has nothing to do with rarity.

Scythe for example hit 360m

[small anvil]

Supply is rarity you dingus

[true talon]

prob one of the rarest items in the game

[timber drift]

not strictly true but yeah in this case it is

rarity * people grinding the content

[true talon]

"people" lol cute

[timber drift]

hey im not responsible for the bots existing 😅

[ionic tartan]

IRC, there is something like 4x more people doing Yama than Nex

[true talon]

yea no1 wants to do nex, yama is soloable and is also "ENJOYABLE" yama is def one of the most fun an engaging bosses to fight.

Only thing i care about around a piece of contents viability is if its fun.

[austere mulch]

Yeah bc it was only worth using at one piece of content and it’s not nearly as rare as you’re making it out to be. Sitting at about 180ehb

Compared to bow which had way more use cases, cheaper to operate, and significantly more rare

[austere mulch]

Supply is… rarity

🤣🤣🤣

If it’s common, the supply is high

The alphabet is used to make words. Has nothing to do with letters

[small anvil]

This is why I broke out the rarely called for dingus denotation for tass

[icy relic]

if it's good, demand goes up, people do the content to increase supply

[forest tinsel]

Did they update yama?

[small anvil]

Yes and the time to not the drop will affect the rate supply is added to the market

Rarity keeps the market from being flooded

[austere mulch]

And accessibility

[forest tinsel]

Was there update to yama drops?

[small anvil]

Yeah how easy it is to get a mid lvl account to that content also matters

[rare frost]

It was needed like 2 days in because kill times were quicker than expected for melee

[small anvil]

Week 1 there was an update

[forest tinsel]

Was there an update for yama

[rare frost]

Imo other than hard versions of content like CMs I don't think any content should be unreasonable to kill without a megarare or 300m+ weapon

[icy relic]

rarity also floods the market for other items on the table

[rare frost]

Yes and no

[austere mulch]

IMO if content has bis drops. Megas should be bis, but there should be other viable options as well

[icy relic]

it's the clogging/megarare problem

[forest tinsel]

Did they update yama???

[icy relic]

no

[forest tinsel]

Why is everyone talkin about it

[rare frost]

It's only super flooded if the other stuff is super consistent. People aren't killing vorkath for a dragon bone neck are they?

[icy relic]

we're just debating

[forest tinsel]

Yama is shit content

Drops impossible to get

[austere mulch]

Eg. Remove def floor on Yama scythe becomes bis if reduced enough but ember still very close and better when not reduced enough (aka always in solo)

[rare frost]

I dunno I find scythe being bis almost everywhere kinda stupid

[icy relic]

I personally disagree with the notion that megarares should be bis everywhere but I guess it's an unpopular opinion