game-update

[winter hearth]

I think they're always well-intentioned and are genuinely part of the ambitions for the project but as development takes shape they just become harder to realise. Stuff like Colo being endless was on the cards but turned into a struggle from a loot perspective or an 'enjoyment' perspective

It's not 'screwing over' in our eyes though right? They were changes made with a specific goal, and are delivering on that goal

[strong fiber]

Tricky, I mean that concept can be used in multiple ways with the changes

[wary steeple]

killed it with colo imo

[true talon]

Ehh sometimes you over complicate your own pitches.
TOA getting new invos wont do a lot and its a astronimical ammount of work to slightly have people take whats meta anyways.
Endless colo wouldnt be very fun, the waves are the worst part of the content and there isnt a lot youd benefit from having endless wave of monsters that are very hard to code or balance in a fair way that you wont just get deleted. flicking 1 manticore is the same as flicking 10.
I will say that the glory system should have been expanded to scale rewards or have more to it than what we got.

[chrome lantern]

So the goal is to not touch lower level loot at all but make raid log completion time 20% longer?

Because my 500s did not get notably faster and masori is 20% rarer

[wary steeple]

500s are more accessible

[true talon]

Ty people rarely understand that the vision and then the actual functionality or getting it to work is two different things lol.

[chrome lantern]

The ToA changes were a massive buff pre shadow and a slap in the face to anyone doing high invoc

Whether scaling above 500 or drop rates/raids to complete

I agree with fewer fangs and rings

And with fewer seeds tbh

[winter hearth]

The goal was (which we've chatted about in 3 blogs at this point) to improve the long-term economic health of some rewards from TOA, particularly from a player journey perspective. Interestingly, the average setup cost for 400/450/500 raid completions is decreasing on average, suspect it's still a little more meh for high-end mains chasing GP/hr (though prices will rise and perhaps absorb some of this difference), but Irons are less reliant on things like 'having a Shadow in the first place' to push raid level up

[shadow wave]

"I agree with the thing that doesn't affect me but disagree with the thing that does" funny how that works out

[strong fiber]

The whole raid is more accessible at any level, good update overall really put TOA in the same speaking tone as chambers, also really made it more relaxed.

[velvet harbor]

I have 3k accounts running lms as we speak buddy. You can’t stop me

[chrome lantern]

But I feel extremely punished personally

For being over 4x dry on masori chaps

And just not getting it before the raid got updated

[strong fiber]

Well I don’t think they dropped a whole game update for you my boy. But maybe they did let’s go to Fally.

[chrome lantern]

Raid feels way worse knowing that my efforts aren’t nearly as worthwhile as before

[wary steeple]

the journey now though is much less aids @chrome lantern

[green pewter]

@winter hearth Very happy about the rune change for monster inspect. Just out of curiosity was lowering the lvl req for the spell ever considered by the team or was it shot down for some reason?

[strong fiber]

Monster inspect has to be a mobile only thing right

[green pewter]

Its a spell its new

[strong fiber]

Like why would you ever run standards unless fighting vorkath especially when you can just wiki it

[winter hearth]

It was, but we decided to keep it where it was at because of concerns that players might over-focus on things like 'oo this NPC has 5 less Crush defence than every other style, better get some new gear'. That kinda 'over-focus' on numbers that are tiny in reality is something we've noticed a lot with the new WoW folks

[strong fiber]

LOL

There’s new WoW folks? What why

[winter hearth]

A fair few sizeable WoW creators have been jumping in (mostly) blind, it's been a cool case study for us

[green pewter]

Very cool, and yeah probably better to avoid new players getting too focused on such things when they only have like lvl 20 in combats

[chrome lantern]

I’ve spent hundreds of hours in that raid and grinded it really hard before the update precisely because I knew just how much the update was going to just screw everything over for time to complete for me, and I was right. Made the worst raid feel even worse somehow with minimal timesave. The scarab defense was super nice, and I can even zcb akkha, but the timesave is not remotely proportional to how much rarer everything became for me

[wary steeple]

WoW is in between seasons, theyre getting sick of doing the same reset over and over again. coming to the game where the devs understand the players

[livid viper]

@winter hearth do you know anything about beginner clues not dropping from byro / obor. not from the boss and not from the chest, tried both f2p and p2p worlds. they used to be 100% drop rate. i havent seen anything in patch notes the past 2 weeks about it.

[strong fiber]

Jagex didn’t give the destiny players a study

[chrome lantern]

Yes I understand I’m being selfish but I just feel royally screwed over

[strong fiber]

Trust me they should of we need help

[wary steeple]

understand the players or at least dont ruin emergent gameplay*

[true talon]

my buddy is at 851 experts without a shadow he has had 93 purples. this update hasnt changed that but he says the raid is atleast better, i do agree with him that p1 oblelisk is absolute nightmare if you dont have a shadow, he is using giga max blowpipe d darts and fang and he can sometimes get dps checked by the falling orbs. when they did a pass at TOA obelisk should have been made a lot less tanky. he is currently waiting for the new gloves + boots + eye from delves before he goes back for his shadow.

[winter hearth]

Historically it's really difficult for us to get actual opinionated feedback from brand new players, because they're so new that they're not really engaging with the wider ecosystem (e.g. posting on socials etc.), so having the likes of MadSeasonShow, Savix, Guzu, Soda, Payo, Graycen, sunglitters and others check the game out and stream their full thoughts as newer players has been pretty handy

[strong fiber]

Yeah watching soda freak out about sheep was peak

[chrome lantern]

Like I said, update was a massive buff pre-shadow and a mega nerf to anyone trying to actually finish the rest of the log or do high invoc

[true talon]

Savix will bring a good ammount of viewership, he is very entertaining and funny guy. so if he likes the game his following is pretty good.

im a long time wow player as well

[left totem]

i love this

[vivid ruin]

I like how bird nests with clues automatically move the clues to inventory. Not sure if thats intentional but its welcomed

[chrome lantern]

wym by that

[true talon]

Best part was when he got a fang in a 500 after the update XD

hes like it wont be a fang right?

[strong fiber]

So like am I gonna have to interrupt my tob trips to drop clues or put in boxes still or can I just grind the bloody theatre in peace now

[nimble nexus]

do u have to turn on the scroll boxes? have clues in my bank

[vivid ruin]

I got a clue drop. The nest went to ground while clue auto went to my inv

[winter hearth]

No, you already have clues - you'll now get boxes as drops, but can't open them if you already have a scroll

[chrome lantern]

Oh that’s super weird idk if I like that at all

[dire mango]

when the point of the update was to lower purp% across the board and reduce the weighting of fang/lb to try to make all the rewards from toa be worth more in the long term then ofc you'll have a harder time aquiring the items after the update. We can't have it both ways with lots of purps and healthier long-term prices

[chrome lantern]

They could, if they actually nerfed the rates for low invoc too instead of ignoring it entirely below 350

[winter hearth]

No, you can just rack up the scroll boxes and could in theory juggle if you've got 5 elites sitting around too

[nimble nexus]

i see so, i have to complete these ones for them to scroll up

[strong fiber]

Fair enough 5 is a good amount that would cover a day of smacking verzik

[true talon]

They nerfed the spots that produced the most purples........ why would you nerf below 300 lol
Also shadow weighting went from 1/24 static to a scaling 1/16 at high invos thats large buff on obtaining the shadow when you roll a purple, but purples are slightly rarer.

[winter hearth]

Nope, you can still stack the boxes, you just can't open them if you've already got a clue of the same tier

[heavy ledge]

earlier i said 6 months of work down the drain. it was 8 months.

[toxic cypress]

I think people interpreted "stack able" different

[chrome lantern]

46% of purples from 350 and below low invoc raids is a massive part of it that was entirely ignored

[heavy ledge]

they literally outlined what goblin just said in the proposal. they didnt mention clogs tho

[white narwhal]

@winter hearth random but if your interested in extremely creative WoW players can recommend checking out Rextroy. He would be a menace in a good way if he ever came to osrs

[strong fiber]

Brother the raid takes less time and you will die less

[winter hearth]

That represents 70% of completionss though

[chrome lantern]

I did not notice a significant change in my 500s at all

[vivid ruin]

Lmao

[strong fiber]

350s or 500s pick one

[chrome lantern]

I said 350 is low invoc

Which is true

[strong fiber]

Not really

150 is low

[chrome lantern]

And those raids got massively faster so an even bigger problem left unaddressed rates tbh

[true talon]

ya they dont understand the concept of lower amount of completions but higher % of the uniques that the high invo's is the issue lol.

[chrome lantern]

150 should definitely be entry mode

[true talon]

i dont think anyone ever has done a 0 entry unless they are brand new and wanted to slightly learn.

[strong fiber]

Some would say 500s are entry mode

[true talon]

150 is mostly when people start off raiding

[strong fiber]

Idk what ur tryna say

[chrome lantern]

Why should Jagex not reward higher completions with better rewards? The stats shown to me felt like a confirmation that things were in a good place on that count

[winter hearth]

We do!

[true talon]

high invo does give better rewards..........

[chrome lantern]

3% 500+ for 7% purples was extremely reasonable

[winter hearth]

Just not so disproportionately

[chrome lantern]

Why is that considered disproportionate

That seems extremely just

[strong fiber]

Because Chambers doesn’t, TOB doesn’t

[true talon]

3% for 7% is not a good ratio lol.....

[strong fiber]

Not at the rate TOA did

HMT is what 1/7 instead of 1/9 in 5s?

[chrome lantern]

Yeah and CM and HMT should be more rewarding than they are lmao

That’s the reverse issue

[true talon]

thats 3 people out of 100 producing almost 10% of the uniques in the game

[strong fiber]

Naw naw game would be too free

[dire mango]

the scale doesn't change the purple chance anyways. but ye

[chrome lantern]

Increasing it by 50% is not a slight round up but thanks for trying

[true talon]

CM's need a scroll weighting change

[frozen otter]

It's 50/50. You either get the drop or you dont.

[true talon]

Facts

[strong fiber]

Your idea would just make the drops cheap and not worth grinding and no one would do it anyway

For mains

Irons would just get flexed on more and complete raids faster

[chrome lantern]

The vast majority still come from under 400s, but those are left super untouched

[white narwhal]

This is like asking for 2 aces every hand of cards your draw. Your not getting 2 aces every hand regardless if the deck is shuffled everytime

[chrome lantern]

Would be a lot easier to maintain if you adjusted 300s and below

[true talon]

Because 300 is expert man, that is the threshold jagex is using. they are not considering 450+ as being entry toa.

[strong fiber]

295 masses when

[chrome lantern]

Expert doesn’t start until 400

[true talon]

they adjusted the rates above 350, because they were to damn high

[chrome lantern]

300 is the same as a 150

[true talon]

going from a 350 to a 400 made you go from a 6% to a 10%

from a 400 to 500 went from 10 to 15

[strong fiber]

Sounds like you just want shadow nerfed

[chrome lantern]

?

I don’t see how that’s related at all toanything I said

But I would not be upset either

[strong fiber]

Because a 300 feeling like a 150 is because the shadow is busted

Using a sang staff on a 150/300 you’ll notice

[chrome lantern]

Even pre shadow the raid is the same just more hp

[timber drift]

think u need to just send more raids mate

[chrome lantern]

I have 300 raids over 475, I was hoping to not have to send more tbh

70 500s

[wooden harbor]

didnt tzhaar monsters get water weakness last update?
what changed this update

[timber drift]

they forgot to add it last one

now its added

[winter hearth]

this

[true talon]

@winter hearth how do you guys feel about the obelisk in p1, its rather extremely tanky and often dps checks players without a shadow or bowfa. ive watched max irons with blowpipe d darts and miss their BGS and they should have basically teleported out. could we see a change to its defense or maybe reduce its scaling with invo on defense?

[timber drift]

fang is also good on it

[wooden harbor]

no way.. i just did a 2 hour water bolt/wave firecape like 2 days ago and thought it was fast enough 💀

[timber drift]

not bowfa lvl but alright

[strong fiber]

What yal need to do is make HMT / CM kits not rng thanks. Did you know it’s possible to go 300 dry for a cm kit welp it is.

[chrome lantern]

Fight caves were adjusted reg tzhaar were not

Last week

[wooden harbor]

ah gotcha

[timber drift]

idk why they buffed bowfa on it but iiwii

[vivid ruin]

For what?

[shadow wave]

Seems clue geodes are just gone, i assume the same with clue bottles

[timber drift]

obelisk has lower standard range def now

wasnt in the patch notes

standard as in bows

[vivid ruin]

Ahh

[wooden harbor]

thats the only bottleneck for sending consistent 500s without shadow
surely we keep as is and lock certain raid levels behind a mega

[vivid ruin]

I noticed wcing this morning clues just go straight to inv while nests drop to ground

[strong fiber]

Did you know it’s possible to go 5000 dry for a cm kit rare but it’s technically possible

[true talon]

it doesnt prevent you from doing it, but if you miss your bgs then rip lol. bowfa is good enouh without defense reduction.

[wooden harbor]

yea thats why i said consistent :)

[timber drift]

i mean they did buff bowfa on obelisk

what more do you expect them to do for non shadowfolk

[wooden harbor]

did they?

[wooden harbor]

ah

[timber drift]

wasnt in the newspost

tho

[frail bough]

Technically it was

[strong fiber]

That’s more of a blowpipe nerf no?

[winter hearth]

was in the spreadsheet linked in the newspost detailing changes to NPC defence

[timber drift]

what

[winter hearth]

huh?

[timber drift]

oh yeah fair i guess

[strong fiber]

I mean buff

[winter hearth]

Oh, yeah, but it's standard

[timber drift]

standard ranged = bows

not light or heavy

[strong fiber]

I see

[winter hearth]

All over the place today, well cleared-up beast @timber drift lmao

[timber drift]

🫡

[frail bough]

When is next game jam, i want to see what mod necro is cooking

[winter hearth]

I genuinely don't know

[timber drift]

it only really affects exactly bowfa tho coz tbow isnt good on it and theres no other bows that are good enough

[winter hearth]

They're usually around October-time but it's a super busy period this year so I'm not sure what'll happen to it

[frail bough]

Gah

[wooden harbor]

wheres my msb irons at 😔

[timber drift]

though i think 3rd age bow with bis range was fang lvl when i checked

and darrows

[true talon]

Can we see the same change to light to make it less aids to kill with blowpipe?

[strong fiber]

Thats prettt solid I think people need to tank the obelisk a bit more buy them some more time people usually don’t properly tank the orbs trade off isn’t massive but taking 21 damage from the obelisk delays that 30+ damage from the ball and gives more time to not get checked

[frail bough]

I guess it's possible that bank loadouts make it into summer sweet pt 2 🙂 🙂 🙂

I bribe you with all my money goblin

[winter hearth]

It's not! Save your money!

[wooden harbor]

nah strat is to tick eat and only tank the minimum amount to effectively tickeat

tanking more doesnt help a lot 😄

[winter hearth]

Pt. 2 is mostly Slayer and some other small bits, it's much smaller than part 1

[frail bough]

I will pay for any of your future children's college

Nay. all of them

[winter hearth]

0 plans on having kids and the government pays for it in the UK

[frail bough]

Noooo

[strong fiber]

This for solos? I mean I guess a group could all tick eat

[wooden harbor]

yea you can tickeat in groups too 👀

the rapid heal tick eat also helps a ton

[strong fiber]

Interesting

Im a main I can just triple zcb with surge potions and camp shadow and watch Netflix on the side

[frail bough]

Triple zcb on toa goes so hard

[timber drift]

nerf the GE

100% tax

[scarlet prawn]

there is bug, when you drop more than 5 scrolls on same location, you pick up 5 and others dissapear

[strong fiber]

Yeah it’s been kinda nuts

[winter hearth]

That's intended, you can't have more than 5 at a time

[timber drift]

from what i gathered this is intended

[winter hearth]

And it's not possible for us to 'split' the stack, so any picked up in excess of your limit need to be destroyed

[scarlet prawn]

yeah, but i dropped 8 in total and picked up, got 5 other 3 just disapeared

[winter hearth]

Correct, because your limit is 5

[scarlet prawn]

yeah but why other 3 disapear

[winter hearth]

If you want to juggle, open the boxes, juggle the scrolls

[scarlet prawn]

i see

[timber drift]

8 - 3 = 5

[winter hearth]

Because we can't 'split' a stack on the ground. If you drop 10 coins, we can't let you pick up 5 and leave 5 on the ground, it's just not possible in-game

The only option the game has is to delete the excess

[scarlet prawn]

alright, thanks

was just wondering 😄

[white narwhal]

I should avoid stacking a bunch of masters from caskets on the same tile then yea?

[winter hearth]

Yeah

[timber drift]

clues are fine scroll boxes are not

[scarlet prawn]

are scrolls on ground 1h when dropped?

[timber drift]

ye

[white narwhal]

I guess it’s time to explore and find a bank with a giant open area 😂 this is gunna be interesting

[timber drift]

so if you hit the limit you can open x boxes and then just drop the clues

[scarlet prawn]

go desert bank 😄

[white narwhal]

Ty btw for the clue update

[strong fiber]

well there’s always the one by KQ

[white narwhal]

I mean like way open area

[scarlet prawn]

@winter hearth are scrolls also 1h time?

[strong fiber]

I mean a whole entire desert ain’t too bad

[scarlet prawn]

when dropped

[timber drift]

ye tikker

[winter hearth]

Scrolls are 1h, boxes are not

[scarlet prawn]

^

[timber drift]

oh 'also'

[chrome lantern]

It was in the spreadsheet which was in the update notes

[scarlet prawn]

thanks @winter hearth, you were helpful ❤️

[timber drift]

ye fair

didnt really think to check that for toa specificalyl when it was in the newspost

uups

olm might be stab weak now for all i know.....

[weary stag]

But why

It makes tick skilling wayyy more accessible

[ionic tartan]

Soulflame Horn was only 4t instead of the usual 3t too.

[timber drift]

it wasnt even good for 3t since it had a 4t cooldown

if you want a 4t one click cycle starter use celastrus bark

[weary stag]

Do they just want this item to have no use? XD

[timber drift]

i guess for chins it could be used

im guessing they want the pvm item to be useful for pvm

and not have niche skilling uses

[weary stag]

Haha yeh ur right but still, cross integration go brr

[timber drift]

theres alternatives anyway for a 4t cycle starter

[winter hearth]

Wasn't an intended use-case for the horn, emergence is cool but emergence that could be filled by future reward space sometimes gets a bit iffy because reward space is a struggle

[timber drift]

like it had a small use a 3t cycle starter that you only needed to do once every 4t but lol

[harsh quartz]

just got a beginner clue nest, however, the nest spawned as empty and the scroll box automatically got put in my invent

[weary stag]

Aah ok I see what you're saying, it would be cool to have an item that fits the purpose exactly

[wary steeple]

exploring it for future rewards is nice, 🆒

[harsh quartz]

Intended?

[timber drift]

i could only think of chins and maybe gems personally but idk

[weary stag]

But we don't have it yet so it seems a shame

[winter hearth]

Is intended so long as you're on a Members world

[winged mantle]

is this intended - clan broadcast

[wary steeple]

any chance the clue boxes could be changed to look like the sealed scrolls in the nests? and perhaps have a stacking graphic kinda like keys or currencies?

[winter hearth]

Bizarre, have made a note

[strong fiber]

That’s weird special loot

[wooden harbor]

its definitely special

[green pewter]

Special loot 20k

[wary steeple]

eh, guess no one has time. the clue box graphic always looked private server to me

[timber drift]

it should broadcast fossilized dung

integrity change

[winter hearth]

me last week receiving 462 irit seeds and saltpetre

[strong fiber]

YES

@winter hearth What’s the word on the Bingo update to offer support for clans within the game?

[chrome lantern]

Hear me out

Dung in clog

[lunar hawk]

@winter hearth are we getting soemthing for summer event like rs3??

[winter hearth]

Would be something I'd hand off to Sarnie but he's OOO, not something I'm super in the loop on atm

[winter hearth]

I don't think we've ever done a Summer event, so would wager no

Talking like Sweep-Up isn't the smash hit of the Summer, featuring Kygo

[strong fiber]

Ah okay, I remember seeing that a while back. That will change the game for clans and members, making events more prominent.

[winter hearth]

We have some super small CC tweaks coming in Poll 85, but they're nothing big/fancy like that yet

[frail bough]

can we get some hints plz

cc's need love desparately

[wary steeple]

tweak the clue box graphic to stack like keys/currency? 🙂

[winter hearth]

They're small enough that hinting at them just tells you what they are, they're not super significant, but some are for sure nice/welcome

[timber drift]

Should we allow fossilized dung to be broadcast when received as a raid drop?

[winter hearth]

No plans to adjust graphics afaik

[strong fiber]

What needs love is the guesting option for another clan. Always resetting on logins and stuff would be better if persistent

[frail bough]

honestly if we just sneak in the whole administrator being rank 3 instead of this weird "gives admin privs" that would be lovely

[wary steeple]

np ty for reply

[frail bough]

if thats the kind of small tweaks we are talking, then im in

temp kick/mute option
allow us to sort admin rankings how we want
make guesting not so terrible

and we are like 50% of the way there

[ashen delta]

@winter hearth at runefest they said there will be a slayer point shop rework coming soon? Any eta?

[winter hearth]

Slayer tweaks due for Sweep-Up Pt. 2, which is due week-commencing Monday, July 14th

At least, the blog if

[real fox]

The keys from Obor and Bryophyta are now more common, dropping at a rate of 1/16 instead of 1/32. Thank you :)

[zealous ledge]

owkey, now be honist. was the droprate decreased to prevent the market from getting flooded, or was it just a "bug" 😜

[real fox]

Implement a Quick-Enter and Quick-Leave option for Obor and Bryophyta, to speed up farming if you're not using keys to open the chests. And as you mentioned the other day. Thank you very much :)

[winter hearth]

Totally my bad for giving people incorrect info last week, asked a member of the team to check and didn't specify from the boss themself, so think they likely checked the chest

[winter hearth]

Was just a miscommunication. Not sure there's any real concern about the market flooding - think even at a 1/16 you're better off cannoning regular giants half the time

[winged mantle]

are the boxes meant to be deleted if you have too many and pick up some juggling?

[winter hearth]

Yeah, we can't split stacks so can only delete the excess

Have spoken about it a few times today

[winged mantle]

mmm interesting

[winter hearth]

https://x.com/JagexGoblin/status/1940370286777713052 for a rundown

Mod Goblin (@JagexGoblin)

@Im_Lyfe @OldSchoolRS We can't 'split' a stack on the ground. If you drop 10, we can't let you pick up 5. The only option that the game has is to let you pick up the lot, and delete the excess down to your cap. Same way you can't drop 10 coins, loot 5, leave 5 on the ground

X · Jul 2, 2025, 11:21 AM

[frail bough]

goblin, slightly off topic, but how do you feel about the feasibility of clan leaders having access to setting for discord webhooks so we can do things like the "live loot" broadcasts in discord without needing to have everyone set up plugin stuff?

[real fox]

No worries, happens! I thought the rates felt more like 1/32

[winter hearth]

No feelings but sounds like a nightmare to implement something like that specifically for a clan leader and to properly safeguard it

[frail bough]

welp

[vestal jetty]

@winter hearth yama needs updating dude content dead

[winter hearth]

Content gets quieter over a month and a half post-release isn't uncommon at all

[zealous ledge]

it's a massive upgrate for irons. who not always have the resources to maintain cannoning. and no worries, glad your a human that can make mistakes;)

[winter hearth]

I think Yama's engagement drop-off is actually a smaller decline than most content we put out

[heavy ledge]

Could we get some more numbers/specifics about what the concern was with soul wars crates now that they've been nerfed? I'm still pretty upset about it but if I could see the numbers I could probably wrap my head around it

[vestal jetty]

Look at nex

Nex always busy

Yama item prices are so low

[heavy ledge]

Not rn obviously, but sometime in the next couple weeks

[vestal jetty]

Thats why nobody doing it

[winter hearth]

https://youtu.be/Lj1-HxH1ypU?t=1420

Rationale is also explained in today's blog and the initial sweep-up blog @heavy ledge

[chrome lantern]

Nex is busy because people hate the boss so much that prices are high

[winter hearth]

Nex also feels busier because you can fight it outside of an instance

[heavy ledge]

Weird for some reason I don't remember that at all lol

ty

[vestal jetty]

@winter hearth 2 years nex still high everyday every timezone, yama items aledy 100mil each bro pls do something

[winter hearth]

Yama is still 7.6m an hour at Wiki rates, which are usually lower than efficient rates, which is on-par with team Nex and somewhat worse than duo Nex

[heavy ledge]

haven;t finished going through today's blog tho

[dire mango]

wonder why the guy named "NEX OG" is comparing yama to the "gold standard" of nex

[limber briar]

How dare you not make it bis money per hour 😂

[chrome lantern]

Also like if you want to say content should be better, usually the bare minimum is having any form of recommendation

And posting in #1022203837265756231

“Make it better” isn’t helpful

[strong fiber]

So… your complaint is no one’s doing Yama but your complaint is also the items prices are too low. And you think more people killing Yama would help that?

[inner salmon]

Fixed sole flame horn for those who were using it to skill is a bummer man a big bummer. I was looking forward to that.

[strong fiber]

Yes like 300s are entry

[winter hearth]

Personally agree that Oathplate is too cheap/common for how strong it is, but Yama sees maybe 4x as many kills as Nex per day, don't think 'it's dead' is solid reasoning

[heavy ledge]

sorry to come back to this, but that video seems to be the only specific number we've ever been given. just went through all 3 summer sweep up blogs and todays blog and nothing else is mentioned (and the blood runes are only mentioned in the video). As I mentioned, I like to look at numbers and specifics, not "players can cheese the game with FCs and we don't want that to be lucrative"

[frail bough]

thoughts on giving torva set effect instead to make it more cool

let oathplate be simple ++accuracy
and torva be ++coolseteffect

[winter hearth]

That reasoning is effectively it, the volume of resources being pumped into the game by players effectively determining their own rates of reward acquisition isn't healthy and it took us far too long to fix, especially when some of those resources are added in quantities in line with every other source of them combined

[fossil epoch]

adamant bolts going from 180ish to 17gp per bolt because of soul wars shows how massive the dumps were

[winter hearth]

But in terms of specifics, if we've not shared them already then I'm likely not able to

[tender harness]

5 clues max for a stack still seems really low. Any ideas if theres room to increase that in the future?

[heavy ledge]

maybe I'm not being clear, but I'd like to see more about how badly this was affecting the economy, e.g. what the quantities were for other items than blood runes and how that compares to other sources

[winter hearth]

Hoping my previous reply is clear enough - if we've not shared them already then I'm likely not able to

[true talon]

300m for slash bando's is a pretty good price point......

[winter hearth]

Perhaps, but aim for the system were to retain some sense of distraction/diversion while cutting down on the amount of context-switching players were expected to do when rolling through a Slayer task etc.

[winged mantle]

5 feels good tbh

[heavy ledge]

unfortunately it did nothing new for me. was hoping you could ask about getting more numbers out in the future, not rn (I specified that a while back but mayeb you didnt see)

[winged mantle]

Enough to not have to leave right away

[fossil epoch]

can stack 10 master clues even!

[tender harness]

Think castle wars loot crate and apply that to soul wars. In general loot crates from low effort pvm (mini games) shouldn't be giving absurd amounts of money/resources

[fossil epoch]

11 actually

[inner salmon]

@winter hearth Soleflame horn sneaky hot fix for the skilling method… but why? That might have gotten me more into tic manip skilling.

[winter hearth]

#game-update message

[last onyx]

@winter hearth Are there issues with the new clue items not registering correctly for the Collection Log? The additions have pushed me over 900 Collection Log slots but "The Collector" in Varrock Museum doesn't have anything new for me

[winter hearth]

Will raise

[last onyx]

Disregard already, user error

[winter hearth]

Ah

[vestal jetty]

Can’t you add something to change it being cheap? Like a boss where its needed to increase price?

[limber briar]

@winter hearth have you tried delve boss? Is it fun? 👀

[winter hearth]

There's loads of places where Oathplate is 'needed', it's just that I feel it's still too common for how good it is

[winter hearth]

Not in a little while, last I played I was having fun though

[true talon]

@winter hearth Was the defense reduction meant to go to blowpipe also?

[winter hearth]

No, Standard Ranged defence

[heavy ledge]

I was also wondering if the possibility of making soul wars more engaging or harder to boost was ever raised? the minigame was already effectively dead and this seems to be the final nail in the coffin

[true talon]

i see

scorching bow dont seem like a bad option

[heavy ledge]

maybe a smaller crate nerf paired with what i mention

[winter hearth]

Not particularly, the game played properly is engaging, but it's more a player culture thing than anything else imo - players won't engage with stuff that isn't rewarding, and making minigames like Soul Wars rewarding is a balancing act that's often more trouble than it's worth to get right

[tender harness]

Oathplate is just too common at the end of the day, vice versa torva is probably on the other end of that spectrum.

Would be interesting to see a middle ground where oath plate is adjusted, but torva in a sense isnt as miserable to get? The problem isnt inherently oathplate but nex just for many people isnt fun to do and the torva rates don't help.

[vestal jetty]

Is it not possible to make it more rarer? Drop rates ect

[true talon]

id pref if the oathplate shards was untradeable and the armor itself was more common.

1/120 in a solo is not that common

[heavy ledge]

unfortunate. killing a minigame instead of tweaking it seems to be counterintuitive to the summer sweep up

[winter hearth]

It is possible, but am merely stating my opinion as a player

[winter hearth]

Outside of boosting it was already dead, it's not been killed

[heavy ledge]

fair

[winter hearth]

No changes to Akkha today

[nocturne solstice]

I didnt notice any changes to akkha when I ran it post update

[true talon]

I think the prices on some of the items could be looked at. like reducing the cost of the blighted pots/sacks/up the exp a little? there is more to soul wars than just the crate gold farmers and bots was producing.

[heavy ledge]

There's an RNG pet locked behind it tho, so I feel like that alone warrants a closer look at making it better/more engaging rather than a flat nerf. Perhaps it could be looked at again in the future?

[winter hearth]

If you're hunting the pet specifically then you can still boost for the same rate - anybody pet hunting was boosting, people playing for fun didn't really exist outside of clan events (which are still possible). It sucks for pet hunters to leave with less GP than they would have pre-nerf, but still a net positive on game health

[winter hearth]

XP output already gets pretty insane tbf, and still is with current dolo tech

Think you can hit north of 170k Combat XP/hr even on a 10HP Iron at Soul Wars, would be apprehensive about adjusting the XP values

[visual arch]

my volatile nightmare staff deadman spec still doesnt work at kraken, i have reported a bug, i thought today fixed it?

[heavy ledge]

You missed my point, but whatever. You guys seem pretty adamant about not putting in any work to make this minigame enjoyable

[true talon]

Soul wars is kinda enjoyable

[fossil epoch]

giving you gp while doing soulwars is not the way to make the content good lol

either you enjoy pvp minigames or you dont

[winter hearth]

The minigame is enjoyable, it's just not worth doing - but it's never really been worth doing properly either. There's always room to try, but getting the balance wrong even a teeny bit can be problematic

[hard axle]

SW needs more mechanics imo

[fossil epoch]

also we knew about this soul wars update for months now

many months

[heavy ledge]

i'm not talking about crates specifically anymore, but bigger tweaks to the minigame

[true talon]

correct playing soul wars properly is a slog that is not rewarding.

[hard axle]

Yes, the point cap on kills and in general is not okay

[fossil epoch]

this was way to much shit getting dumped into the economy

[hard axle]

it encourages afking after you cap out

[nocturne solstice]

I found it enjoyable on Leagues

[fossil epoch]

by large bot farms

[hard axle]

Cuz it was fucking uncapped in leagues

[true talon]

mains are paying scar ess price for souls like irons lmao XD

[hard axle]

good

[nocturne solstice]

True but it was also whacky with the relic builds people had

[hard axle]

Runes shouldn’t be cheap ngl

[heavy ledge]

we've (i've) moved beyond this

[true talon]

Wait souls is bank right now this is 34gp per rune profit

[hard axle]

We’ve had so much gp inflation and them being so cheap is fucking stupid

[visual arch]

the section in the blog
"We also rolled out a hotfix late last week:

Fixed a bug where Magic Special Attacks weren't working correctly against 'Flying' enemies." how come my vol deadman spec wasnt working last night and still doesn't work against kraken today? its literally the items only pvm use case and apparently eldritch spec isnt working at the same time you increased the amount coming into the game. you cant have items just not working for weeks wtf

[hard axle]

It’s a sign of them being too common

[nocturne solstice]

Make skilling profitable again

[true talon]

currently every scar ess you purchase you will profit 2k lmao

if you runecraft with them

[nocturne solstice]

nice

[true talon]

1k scar ess is 2m

profit

scar ess souls might be pretty profitable right now

[nocturne solstice]

uh huh whats the initial investment cost

[true talon]

a single trip to soul altar will net 5.6m in soul runes

with intial cost being around 4.8m

this is assuming its 200 scar ess on trip it might be more like 250 ish

i just know you make over 13k soul runes a trip with scar ess

[frail bough]

pretty sure invo can only do 100 on first trip and 98 or something on second

[hard axle]

[tender harness]

Make runecraft great again

[true talon]

ya so around 200 scar ess being intial investment 4.8m

[frail bough]

i guess it would be 96 cause its 4 per

[nocturne solstice]

I really should do more rcing and finally unlock wrath runes

[true talon]

yea big profit right now in soul rune crafting with scar ess

its around 500k minimum profit per trip

not including the runes you craft yourself

[quick parcel]

earth warriors still don't have their weakness from the sweep-up

[heavy ledge]

sorry one final thought: could we at least get a broad poll question about whether we think it's worth your dev time to look at soul wars and tweak it? If so, one specific suggestion I'd have for you to look at is killing the dolo method completely. This is supposed to be a team minigame, so there should be a minimum number of players to earn rewards imo

[sacred oracle]

... why would you want to take away the dolo method? it doesn't affect regular game play

[heavy ledge]

i know you won't be able to answer that right now, but please at least talk about it with your coworkers

[sacred oracle]

just seems punitive for people who play differently from you

[tender harness]

Why are you so strangely obsessed with soul wars lmao

[sacred oracle]

if you don't like it, i'd say just not do it, it's not hurting anyone it being there as a pet-getting method

[heavy ledge]

I'm talking about a broader rebalance of soul wars, dolo is completely against the point of the minigame

[tender harness]

So are loot crates giving a metric ton of supplies

[white narwhal]

If the pvp is the issue they could possibly do something like LoL with the lvling solo affecting team top 3 losing team get a small damage boost overall to offset team mates losses maybe

[minor whale]

If they add a feature that's possible to do, and has been for years, it's not "against the point" for it to remain

[heavy ledge]

but it is. They're literally citing the dolo method as part of the reason to nerf everyone's crates. And I don't like where soul wars is at to begin with (dead)

[tender harness]

Dolo isnt the reason

[minor whale]

Lol what

[sacred oracle]

can you point out to me where they mentioned dolo as the/a reason? i missed that

[minor whale]

Dolo is absolutely not the reason lmao

[jovial sentinel]

The problems required to fix soul wars are likely more work than making a new minigame.

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think it would be beneficial to have an extremely broad question like that. Maybe if the community raises concern on specific aspects of soul wars then it could be polled. If it's just balancing then it wouldn't be polled as per the polling charter.

[hard axle]

where are you seeing this

dolo is incredibly uncommon

it's a pet hunting strat at most

[tender harness]

Loot crates are unhealthy for the game. They have literally zero reason being as OP as they were. Its a simple concept

Look at castle wars crates and what happened.

[jovial sentinel]

People literally suggest afking castle wars still in iron chat

As a way to get things.

The problem is that bad.

[heavy ledge]

golbin mentioned it earlier in chat

[tender harness]

Also bots running 24/7/365 farms in soul wars but hey pretend that doesnt exist

[minor whale]

Saying dolo is too much money is really funny because there's about a dozen other moneymakers that are much much more afk that are much much more money lmao

[shadow fiber]

tbh I feel like if optimising points weren't an incentive then people would enjoy just playing it more, an activity meter more like pest control

[jovial sentinel]

Im not really a huge fan of the activity meter in pc.

[sacred oracle]

i don't even remember making much gph doloing for pet

barely covered my supplies

it was not exactly lucrative

[heavy ledge]

tyvm

[jovial sentinel]

It means legitinately active people at low level sometimes get unlucky and kicked.

[minor whale]

I don't see anything from Goblin about dolo being a problem, just that he doesn't like it lol

[nocturne solstice]

He did not say the dolo method was the reason it got nerfed. He very specifically said it was the crate's effect on the economy.

[jovial sentinel]

Maybe thats due to the balance being wrong.

[minor whale]

People read what they want to read even when nobody else interpreted it that way, wild

[tender harness]

You're assuming the guy can read

[nocturne solstice]

He said, as a response to Tassilli saying to changing the xp rates, that with the dolo method its a very good XP training method and people would get angry if there were any changes.

[sacred oracle]

from a game design perspective, i think if dolo is meta for pet, that's something that could be improved to where it's meta to actually engage in team play for the pet

but i don't think the answer is just removing the best method and leaving worse lol

[tender harness]

Trouble brewing fletching is dead can we fix that too

[nocturne solstice]

nerf it again

[sacred oracle]

to be clear, i actually dislike that dolo is meta for pet

[minor whale]

He specifically said "it's in a good spot, we're not going to buff or nerf it because you want it to be more rewarding"

[hard axle]

@winter hearth I'm afraid to ask but do you know about the 🚙 at SW

[minor whale]

Car

[hard axle]

[sacred oracle]

i still literally have no idea how to play soul wars properly

[hard axle]

not trying to get that method removed

but uh

if he hates dolo

[nocturne solstice]

Thats on you, you have to do a mandatory tutorial to play SW

[heavy ledge]

yall talking about reading comprehension but assuming im talking about crate nerfs and not soul wars rebalance

[tender harness]

Crate nerfs are fine

[minor whale]

No, we know fully what you're talking about but it just doesn't make any sense and isn't what Goblin said at all 😭

[sacred oracle]

ehh i'm sure the tutorial doesn't go into metas

but you're right, i remember literally nothing about the tutorial

[nocturne solstice]

I dont think they're assuming anything when you specifically said that dolo was the justification for nerfing crates.

[heavy ledge]

"part of the reason"

[hard axle]

If u capture graveyard in your team's color, u respawn closer to middle. You capture by remaining in the area with more people than the enemy team.

[heavy ledge]

not sole reason

it was one idea i had jfc

[hard axle]

If you capture the obelisk, your soul fragments do 3x more damage to the avatar

[sacred oracle]

i remember i really liked the sounds the ghosts or whatever made when you killed them

oOoOoOoOoO

[hard axle]

that's basically the minigame

damage the avatar's defense and then kill it 5x before the enemy team does

[heavy ledge]

sorry i pissed off the sweaty pet hunters

[nimble nexus]

@heavy ledge im new here, do you just complain all the time or just today

[nocturne solstice]

Why are you calling people sweaty now

That doesnt add to the conversation or help your point of view

[oblique mesa]

The minigame is to right click follow on your teams lead gold farmer and cheese the activity timer, or if its leagues you run around fighting people while you get flamed

[hard axle]

except the sweaty pet hunters aren't impacted at all?

It's literally the casual pet hunters that got fucked slightly

[heavy ledge]

sorry, just feel like im being brigaded for an offhand idea i had and people are putting words in my mouth

[hard axle]

you're being piratesoftware 2.0

[heavy ledge]

scroll up and read what this is about pls

[obsidian venture]

Less than half the invos are on. How this is classified as expert is comedy

[nocturne solstice]

Im really not seeing the putting words in your mouth part but getting pushback should be expected. You just gotta explain your point of view so they'll understand better.

[uneven lodge]

I had 5 elites and 8 ish hard cluses stacked on floor and after this mornings update they are all gone, is that intended?

[nocturne solstice]

I get lots of pushback all the time here

[austere mulch]

Another update, another miss of having Soulflame horn work with dragon claws as it was polled and communicated on up until two days after release

I’m tired, boss

[nimble nexus]

I like your penguin

[fossil epoch]

tbf EfficienCzar you did say this to goblin "You guys seem pretty adamant about not putting in any work to make this minigame enjoyable" which a big stretch

[nocturne solstice]

I like your cat

[nimble nexus]

[sacred oracle]

sorry i've decided to no longer participate constructively in the conversation and instead am just giggling thinking about ghost sounds

[hard axle]

Blaming dolo and maybe less than 2000 people in the entirety of the game are actually doloing for pet

This is piratesoftware scapegoating/misinformation up the wazoo

[sacred oracle]

i wonder how many people even have the pet who aren't bots

(i feel like sw is mostly populated by bots, but i have literally no data to back that up, only vibes)

[fossil epoch]

not a bot, i swear

[oblique mesa]

But it was last years most popular minigame!

[hard axle]

why are all of you lucky

[fossil epoch]

its a 1/400 droprate, not that lucky

just around rate

[heavy ledge]

he literally said they didn't really discuss anything to do with the minigame besides nerfing the crates and shot down any suggesiton i had

[hard axle]

hold up

[fossil epoch]

you kept going on about it though, even though he said to move along
#1022203837265756231 is a great place to make suggestions

[hard axle]

https://i.imgur.com/eRllp6r.png

[sacred oracle]

okay this haaasss to be a pet owned by a ton of bots, because there's no shot sw is more popular than all this other content

[hard axle]

luckily it was afk

[fossil epoch]

oof, i guess 2x rate, could be worse

[sacred oracle]

though actually a lot of that content has absurd pet drop rates (as in very rare)

[heavy ledge]

"Sole reason for nerf" vs "part of the reason" and all the people assuming im complaining about the crate nerfs instead of a more thoughtful rebalance to a dead minigame with a pet

[fossil epoch]

mine was dolo, like 3 weeks ago, because i wanted the rewards before jagex nerfed

doloing sw sucks

[sacred oracle]

damn has it really been a year and a half since the last time we got a pets stat update?

[sacred oracle]

it's extremely boring

[fossil epoch]

Loved it when they did more stats for randomt stuff in general

EVscape had a series recently where he had to get to an "average" account from 2017's lvls in all skills.
data like that is just fun

[sacred oracle]

i still really don't understand the clue updates man

i may just be too stupid to get it, but i feel like it's very hard to understand

[minor whale]

Overhauling minigames is just not something JMods are keen to do for basically any minigame. There's almost always very tightknit communities for the mini game that have developed specific things to do and they don't often change it. Which is good, most of that content is legacy content anyway.

[sacred oracle]

and also, unless i'm very much mistaken, it feels like we got some shadow nerfs stuck in, possibly out of spite because jagex didn't really want us to have stackable clues in the first place or to be able to juggle infinite clues easily

i am not happy with the clue update at all

[fossil epoch]

turns out that when you buff the content of a minigame, people still dont want to do that minigame, people only care about the rewards (most people)

[sacred oracle]

i feel like everything i used to do is harder and clunkier now, and also with the possibility i can accidentally destroy my clues

i genuinely wish it were togglable. i'd like to be able to turn it off so i could keep doing what i was doing without worrying about destroying my clues

[fossil epoch]

what shadow nerf?

[sacred oracle]

and the 1h timer we voted for doesn't work on the boxes

the default way the clues drop now

[fossil epoch]

just open the boxes and drop the clues, and it works like it used to?

[sacred oracle]

can't open box if you have a clue in bank

it's just more complicated for what feels like thin reasons

[oblique mesa]

You couldn't get clues to drop if you had a clue in the bank

[fossil epoch]

well you drop that clue? if you plan to juggle, you had to drop your banked clue before aswell

[sacred oracle]

all these new things to think about and work around instead of simply a straightforward implementation of stackable clues

[fossil epoch]

also, just went a 10 day bingo juggling the clues i got throughout it, god that was a shit idea i had

[sacred oracle]

the thing is, the limits are so low that cloggers will still have to juggle, but now it's become more dangerous and complicated to do so

[white narwhal]

Don’t forget scroll cases

[sacred oracle]

also stuff like dropping master clue if attacked in wildy is dead if you have a three-stepper

it's a lot of little nerfs and inconveniences in exchange for little value for cloggers

[minor whale]

It's more just there's a lot more steps now, if you used mainly implings for clues it is definitely a bit clunkier

[sacred oracle]

i don't feel like this what i voted for

[minor whale]

And the possibility of destroying clues is a bit

[heavy ledge]

I feel like there's something big you're missing iwth this update

[fossil epoch]

to be fair, it wasnt an update for cloggers, its an update for those who wants a bit of time inbetween clues, who dont want to juggle

[heavy ledge]

the only new thing is you open the box and then drop the clue

instead of drop the clue

[sacred oracle]

yeah, but why did it have to become worse for people in exchange for that

[fossil epoch]

yeh, i guess id did add a single click more per clue for jugglers

which is a fair point not liking

[heavy ledge]

not true for clue nests and geodes tho

[sacred oracle]

and the 1h timer not working for boxes is huge

[white narwhal]

Menu swap the option?

[obsidian venture]

Can you have 1 elite clue in the bank and 5 elite clue boxes as well?

[fossil epoch]

im most likely still gonna juggle, but now i dont have to juggle as much, and thats a win in my book

[fossil epoch]

no

1 elite clue and 4 boxes

[heavy ledge]

alright im done in this chat yeesh

[fossil epoch]

or 5 boxes 0 elites

[obsidian venture]

Ah so a total of 5 regardless

[zealous ledge]

before this weeks update I think with the growthlings cd bug I got a rate of 60kc/h. this weeks update coulddouble the kc/h if the statement is true about one-shot the growthlings with a axe equiped and the cd working. on task at 1/75 rate for a key from moss giants I would need 1200kc for 17 keys (16+1/16 from chest) bryothyta is 256kc for 17. even at 100kc/h at bryophyta I would need to do 470kc/h moss giants. 1 every 7,68 sec. with the need for a task, and not alot know you can keep the boosted rate without the task progress when on a Krystilia task, and alot of cannonballs.
so, Bryophyta is soo much better to do. I don't know if the rate is high or low fro cannoning moss giants, never got the chance.

[sacred oracle]

i would have understood if jagex had come right out and said "we think that being able to drop clues in wildy when attacked is unbalanced and takes the space that the clue box that saves your clues should have"

but they don't do that

they poll one thing, then it feels like they sneak in nerfs

poll stackable clues, then in the implementation silently nerf mechanics that existed before

i really dislike that in general

[fossil epoch]

People are allowed to have different opinions in here, we all just wants what we think is best for the game. thats just not the same for everyone

[minor whale]

Shout out Quiver not being what was specifically described in the blog or polled as 😢

[obsidian venture]

Shoutout to the horn

[white narwhal]

The previous mechanics havnt changed there’s more options

[minor whale]

Being hot garbage but it was at least polled as hot garbage

[sacred oracle]

they have changed in the ways i've described

[hard axle]

no no

horn not being useable with claws is not as it was polled

[minor whale]

Ah right

[sacred oracle]

also, for people who do master clues efficiently, you always have one master clue unboxed that you save as a three-stepper

[clever geode]

If you have an open clue in bank will you still receive scroll boxes for that tier up to your limit?

[minor whale]

That was an after the fact addition

[obsidian venture]

@hard axle how do you feel about the clue update?

[sacred oracle]

now since you cannot open a clue box if you have an existing unboxed clue, and the boxed clues do not have 1h timer, you can no longer simply drop your clue if attacked and easily get back to it

it has a 3-minute timer

[knotty herald]

yeah I got a master with one already in the bank

[hard axle]

will need to play around with it

[obsidian venture]

Word

[sacred oracle]

you can get back to it, but it's a nerf, and now you have to race back as fast as you can and hop worlds and hope you don't get pk'd again

these are nerfs and they weren't discussed beforehand

i feel like this is a pattern

poll one thing, put in other stuff that changes game that wasn't even talked about at all

and i do not much like it

[distant zodiac]

Soul flame horn skilling nerf is sad, we will one day get gnome cube gentlemen

[hard axle]

hold the fuck up

we were supposed to keep the 1 hour timer

3 minutes???

[sacred oracle]

we do! on unboxed clues!

but all clues are boxed now lmao

it's basically a monkey's paw situation

i really, really dislike it

[hard axle]

im gonna need to play around with this later

cuz that sounds ogdd

[minor whale]

Yeah if you drop box

[grand cloud]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Clue_box

[minor whale]

Despawns

In 3 minutes

[sacred oracle]

right, and you didn't need to use those for the last year and a half

and i would have been fine with it if jagex had said, you know what, you should be using these instead of getting around them with 1h timer

but they didn't

[grand cloud]

Yes, but things change and its not too bad to adjust imo

[sacred oracle]

they just polled one thing and did other things with nerfs that weren't ever discussed

and that's the part i really don't like

jagex has been doing that more and more

you are never sure what you're actually going to get delivered when you vote for something

i was nervous leading up until today because i knew there would be something inconvenient and nerfy in clue implementation

and there was!

[minor whale]

But he's saying it is specifically a nerf to the way he did things without any sort of heads up or polling or info

[sacred oracle]

i shouldn't be confident that jagex will not deliver what was polled in the way it seemed they would

but i am because that's what keeps happening

[white narwhal]

When u get a master clue and have that 3 step a]master on the ground does it come as a scroll or box and can u open the box to turn it into a scroll and drop it

[heavy ledge]

just saw this ping, but in short the problem wasn't really pushback against my idea it was that people were using me as a strawman for a different idea (except maybe the 1st dude)

[earnest marsh]

Why did we get stackable clues? Just for more escape?

Ezscape

[white narwhal]

I have like 3k caskets so guess I’ll find out lol

[sacred oracle]

people didn't like doing abby demon tasks and at the end of it running a very long distance back to it several times in a row to get their clues one at a time, over and over

if that's ezscape to you, i guess so

i think a lot of people just consider it to be addressing an unfun pain point

[heavy ledge]

you do the same thing as before? only go in wildy with an actual clue scroll you can drop for an hour. and any other clues you have you drop on ground by a bank to juggle, but now you have the option to put clue boxes in the bank instead of juggling

[sacred oracle]

doesn't work for master clue because you will always have an unboxed master that you're saving to replace a bad three-stepper

i think

why does someone keep sending a picture of a phone in here lol

actually i think you're right

[heavy ledge]

but before you would always have that ez 3 stepper on the ground anyways

[sacred oracle]

i've gotten so confused with this implementation

[heavy ledge]

same thing now

[sacred oracle]

it would have been so much simpler and easier if clues just stacked

like any other item

[opal pulsar]

I love the new stackables, but when I voted for this I didn't know I'd be giving up clue nests. Thanks to this update activities like birdhouses are less nests, and redwoods now yield no nests at all, please give us back the nests!

[heavy ledge]

i think they specifically mentioned this is not possible with how things are coded in the game

[heavy ledge]

is this true? i heard they drop empty nests and put the clue in your inv

[opal pulsar]

I just did a birdhouse run, clue boxes but no nests.

[tiny epoch]

it was a recent change that u get to keep the nest from clue nests isnt it?

or im making stuff up

[heavy ledge]

sounds like a bug, id report it

[opal pulsar]

No you could always keep the nests!

[heavy ledge]

recent change for beginners specifically

[thick beacon]

can u still juggle clues?

[tiny epoch]

weird

[heavy ledge]

yes

[opal pulsar]

It was just beginners that didn't yield nests since they're f2p and nests are p2p, but they updated it so that members could receive nests from them.

[grand cloud]

Am i misunderstanding or i dont see how this would've been possible before anw. If you had a clue in your bank, you wouldn't be able to pick up and drop the new clue that dropped (to start the 1h timer on it, otherwise it despawns like other drops). Alternatively, if you had an existing scroll dropped, all that changes now is you have to click once more to extract the clue from box before dropping.
I get your frustrations with surprise changes tho

[heavy ledge]

to be clear, you got birdhouses that gave clue boxes and no empty nests?

[opal pulsar]

I believe so? 1 box and two seed nests.

I'll try redwoods, those only yield clue nests, so that should be telling.

[heavy ledge]

wait reading this back makes me think you don't realize: you can drop a clue and then open a clue box of that same tier, but you still cannot pick up 2 actual clues at a time

[heavy ledge]

people were specifically saying they get empty nests on ground and clue in inv, but idk for redwoods specifically

[heavy ledge]

I'd report it as a bug and let them look into it. I feel like they would've mentioned if birdhouses would be nerfed with this

[placid moat]

Is it an oversight or intentional that the rogues outfit doesn't double scroll box pickpockets?

[sacred oracle]

yeah i just didn't understand how the boxes work

they're very confusing to me

you would have an unboxed clue if you were in wildy, you can't do a clue in a box

so you would always be able to drop it if doing a clue

it's dicey if you got clue as a drop and got attacked (you'd have to unbox it, if you can, and drop it), but i don't care about that much

[heavy ledge]

intentional

[opal pulsar]

probably intentional, double clues from pickpocketing would unbalance everything.

[placid moat]

Damn, I was looking forward to that

[sacred oracle]

that was never gonna be a thing

too big a buff

[heavy ledge]

they specifically mentioned a while back that it would not work like that unfortunately

was lowkey hoping theyd mess that up tho lol

[sacred oracle]

they didn't want rogue outfit pickpocketing to be the new clue meta

[earnest marsh]

Honestly they should just do it

More clues=better right?

[opal pulsar]

Okay no nests yet but there's a uim dropping nests on the floor so I'm guessing we still get nests from redwoods?

I must have made a mistake

[heavy ledge]

i eman they couldve messed up birdhouses specifically

[sacred oracle]

were nest changes intentional? lemme check blog

i remember nests being mentioned, but i don't really wc so i didn't pay attention

If you haven't completed X Marks the Spot, you’ll still receive regular, non-stackable Clue Scrolls - so that classic Old School treasure hunting experience remains alive and well for new or lower-level players. This includes geodes from Mining, nests from Woodcutting, bottles from Fishing, etc.
nope, nothing really

[heavy ledge]

does anyone know if theres a way tocheck your max clue stack for ea tier>?

?

[sacred oracle]

watson board

[heavy ledge]

ty

[sacred oracle]

pretty neat

[opal pulsar]

I'll do another run before I worry about it, they were set up before the update so that might have messed it up, or I could have just made a mistake.

[earnest marsh]

like idk, in 5 years we probly get a big buff to cluse again, where does it end

[sacred oracle]

slippery slope arguments are not interesting to me

[opal pulsar]

I kinda hope they'll add more uniques one day.

[sacred oracle]

there's nothing to verify, it's not provable

[opal pulsar]

Clues are fun, and so is fashionscape.

[sacred oracle]

so there's nothing to discuss, just arguments based on vibes

i also like fashionscape

[final frigate]

@winter hearth unrelated to this patch but are there any plans/open to consider a stab based def draining weapon? riding along the recent toa hype and to open up design space for potential future stab based bosses or even rapier usage :)

[rain fulcrum]

Please fix all tick manipulation bugs if we are doing to fix the horn tick manipulation thank you

[vivid ruin]

Tbh there does eventually need to come a point where they stop making adjustments to stuff just to appease people

[sacred oracle]

i actually liked the horn thing

it's such a cheap, mostly useless item

[rain fulcrum]

It doesn't make sense to me that old items are allowed to be bugged but new ones aren't

[sacred oracle]

it was fun that it had a little skilling niche

[opal pulsar]

Wouldn't that just be appeasing you?

[knotty herald]

me too thanks

[heavy ledge]

He specifically mentioned something about nerfing items that via emergent gameplay fill a niche that could be filled with another item later, which I don’t necessarily agree with but means there may be new intentional bugs in the future

[heavy ledge]

He being mod gob

[rain fulcrum]

Still dumb

Gotta nerf most useless Yama unique

It wasn't that op either

[heavy ledge]

Tbh sounds like they had something in the works for that specific niche and he didn’t wanna give it away but idk

[true talon]

A lot of their development has gone to getting rid of defense reduction meta

which is good

I like bosses with fat hp bars and no defense and low or no chip damage

like sol or yama

[rain fulcrum]

Just give the spec to rapier

[neon gate]

This is fair but the horn is way too common, 99% of players will never use it outside of Yama. Demonic Gnome Cube was actually the primary use case for it

It requires too much coordination to ever be a mandatory boss mechanic

Any time it's more than purely optional the boss is by default tob tier difficult /inaccessible

I've seen a lot of people miss the spec at Yama and it's 100% accurate

[rain fulcrum]

It feels really strongly like jagex is incredibly opposed to the horn being used for anything other than maul

It's not allowed to with with dragon claws properly which makes the relative gain from using it with claws worse than using it with scythe (which it's also gimped)

And on top of that it isn't allowed to have 1 small emergent gameplay part

[neon gate]

It would be much more interesting if it could be used for horn scythe

[rain fulcrum]

Which honestly is not taking up reward space because it's so small

[neon gate]

Horn sra is total nuclear ass given you only get 8 swings

And sra being bad in general

[final frigate]

yeah idk how they intended horn to be actually used

[rain fulcrum]

Sote.

Except it's not even good there

But that's literally the only thing they want it to be for

[final frigate]

guaranteeing mauls is also such a boring use too

pay 25 spec guarantee maul

[neon gate]

Next team boss with 999999 crush def so horn is mandatory

Zzzzzz

[rain fulcrum]

Also why the horn is terrible design like vw

And they stated numerous times that vw is a problem

And because of this same issue horn has to be pretty much useless

[cursive vector]

Any chance this could be polled? It seems like ALOT of people liked it, and it doesnt replace knifelog or anything because of the 4t cd

[minor whale]

Horn is just a really bad item

It has possible use cases and those are basically Yama and an alt at some niche content

[cursive vector]

I mean it also has some uses in tob speedrunning but ye mostly not that useful

[true talon]

Can the horn be usable solo?? it would be nice. i know the fear of having a horn alt follow you around the entire time, but this is combated by instances and this is already the case. allowing it to have solo use lets you trade say your spec bar for 100% accurate soul reaper axe hits or emberlight hits, another option could be allowing it to work with all styles. it just really sad this item is made only to allow a eldermaul to land on yama and then thats it.

[neon gate]

It can be forced at any new content just by making it mandatory

[neon gate]

I have my alt horn my iron and then elder itself so that my iron can bclaw

[true talon]

i had my horn alt just buff me so i get my elder on iron + 3 emberlight smacks with 100% accuracy. i didnt bother using alt to deal damage, because that meant id lose potentially some loot even if its small i had it remove 1 oathplate shard once.

[neon gate]

My iron only has dwh not elder

[winter hearth]

In and out of meetings atm so can't chat a bunch but I think we recognise the interest for sure and it's something we could look to do with another item/reward down the line

[neon gate]

Horn means it's even easier to self boost my iron

Only real use case :)

[true talon]

Ya you can have it follow you around in chambers or whatever lol

its just dumb item that if it dont work solo its not gonna work

its also not breakable into shards meaning its price is just going to keep going down

[rain fulcrum]

I like the horn having this use case a lot more than some dedicated item that does only this

[neon gate]

It's only carried by merchers currently

It should be alch price

[minor whale]

I bought it at like 9m thinking surely they'll buff it and I'll be glad I'm holding onto one when it goes up

And then they decided actually it's completely fine being a dead item

[neon gate]

I bought it at 40m for iron alting lol

[rain fulcrum]

I bought it at 30m cuz Yama without it is awful

[neon gate]

I got my money worth

[cursive vector]

Horn should honestly just be 25% for any number of players (1-5)

[rain fulcrum]

[cursive vector]

Ita dumb that ita meta to use it for just 2 ppl at a time

[final frigate]

yeah i got it at like 8 as well thinking no way it just keeps going down

it keeps going down..

[rain fulcrum]

It should just cost 12.5% per person but including yourself

[small anvil]

I kept my second horn drop when it cost like 6

[final frigate]

surely a unique item with infinite potential and fun doesn't just rot and die

[rain fulcrum]

Meaning 2 people is 25% still

And it's equally efficient regardless of group size

[misty patrol]

Does any1 know if pickpocketing for clues is bugged? almost 500 pps at gnomes 0 clues

Dont have ANY clues in bank atm

[fossil epoch]

you aren "only" a bit over 3x dry, so it could just be bad luck, but i wouldnt be surprised if they fucked something up with them

They also had to exclude rogue outfit from giving 2 clues

[misty patrol]

Yeah im almost at 650 now

ok i can confirm its not bugged just got it 😛

[rain fulcrum]

The real tragedy of this update is reducing shaman HP to 20 because somehow people could not one shot it at 25

[fossil epoch]

yeh, been that dry on pickpocket clues before, but the paranoia is always higher after an update for sure

[rain fulcrum]

Wouldn't want people to have to bring more than a 3 way range swap to the raid

[fossil epoch]

So the tragedy is that you oneshotted it, and not you still oneshot it, but some people with worse gear than you can now do it too?

[rain fulcrum]

Look up the max hit of a blowpipe

There was already 5-6 max hits of leeway to one shot it

[fossil epoch]

with any setup?

[rain fulcrum]

What the heck does that mean

[fossil epoch]

are we only talking masori + dragon darts?
are we talking like god dhide + amethyst darts?

[rain fulcrum]

If blowpipe can hit 30s in max 25 isn't a high bar

[fossil epoch]

max hits change a lot

[rain fulcrum]

You can one shot in god dhide yes

[small anvil]

Dragon darts with blessed

[fossil epoch]

not saying you cant, was just asking what setup you wanted me to look up

[rain fulcrum]

You didn't even need dragon darts

[small anvil]

Amethyst requires masori pieces

Oh wait range pot

Forgot that part

With pre pot range you can one shot easily

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah

It's like a non issue

[small anvil]

It's if you have to brew that you need dragon darts for boulders in my old situation

Before buying some masori

But since you should be doing monkeys first anyway, it only really matters for if you aren't praying

[rain fulcrum]

Like blowpipe hits a 25 with amethyst darts potted with zero swaps

[small anvil]

Hmmm could I camp piety and still one shot with prepot now

I need piety to fang kill things in one shot

[rain fulcrum]

Adding anguish and assembler brings it to 27

Which means u don't need to divine wither

[final frigate]

shaman venom and boulders none of them should be a problem for anyone now

venom was the only awkward one cause of 30

you get 29 max wearing this

now that venom is nerfed it's free for everyone

[small anvil]

Yeah the issue for me before was taking dmg in monkeys

So brewing away my prepot for baba

And thus needing ddarts

[final frigate]

unless you're legit 20 hp you don't need to brew

can thank jagex for that

you should be using ddarts anyway

if you're iron you use like 5 darts a raid

if you're main ge

[small anvil]

Yeah, it's more along the lines of I was just sending learning and cheap

[rain fulcrum]

Now bowfaing the shaman is arguably better than piping it

[final frigate]

it's the cost of like 1 prayer pot man

[small anvil]

And also remembering to swap darts before going in

[rain fulcrum]

Well that requires full swap

So probably not practical even for irons

[obsidian venture]

Bowfa waves are IN

[final frigate]

this maxes 40

irons playing terribly rewarded once again

[obsidian venture]

Gotta reward the noobs somehow I guess

Osrs motto

[rain fulcrum]

Really?

[final frigate]

yeah div and rigour

[rain fulcrum]

Oh wait I had my bowfa maxes off in my head by 5

[final frigate]

assembler 40 as well

sigh

[rain fulcrum]

Thought it waZ 41 in max

Time to take the bowfa swap into the raid

[idle rapids]

The Soulflame Horn can no longer be used to start a Skilling cycle.
get fucked skillers 😎

[rain fulcrum]

It's the skillers who were complaining

That it devalued their 200m all

[idle rapids]

Idk I didnt see them complaining just posting sweaty clips on twitter

He box jonge was doing 2 tick sailing training in the beta with it

Also I heard people saying its 4 tick anyways? So I dont see you cant just use celastrus

[rain fulcrum]

it had a cooldown or smth

[idle rapids]

Or if you really wanna 3 tick with one click just buy purp sweets, but skillers always want it easier

[rain fulcrum]

it was useful for duke

[small anvil]

Huh? Skillers almost never want it easier I think

It's pvmers that are sad the tech is gone at Duke

[true talon]

Rewarded? lol so now we calling bad design which brought about change to fix said bad design as rewarding bad players?

They shoulda removed that dumbass pillar in the middle of the room

[fossil epoch]

and that most likely only a small amount of pvmers

[zenith charm]

Hello! Question regarding clue update, so pickpocket ham members with rogue outfit doesnt give 2 clue boxes? is that intentional?

[fossil epoch]

that is intentional

[rain fulcrum]

id be down for removing that stupidd pillar

[fossil epoch]

when they announced it originally that was part of the blog

[zenith charm]

oh ok, guess i overlooked it. TY!

[fossil epoch]

wish we got 2 clues, cuz i hate doing eclectics, and it would make gnomes better, and still not better than eclectics

[zenith charm]

yea pickpocketing ham members trying to build up my easy stuff, and noticed it and figured i would ask

[fossil epoch]

but that would probably be a poll question, and not a game integridy update, so thats why we didnt get it this time around

[oblique mesa]

Is pickpocketting ham members still better clues per hour than wealthy citizens in varlamore?

[zenith charm]

i forgot that wealthys give clues

so much better bc i dont have to drop every single item from ham

[rustic ruin]

Looks like they changed the coal drop on sulphur naguas. Less noted coal drops, and more unnoted single coal drops

[fossil epoch]

its always been more clues per hour, its just less afk and worse thieving xp

[final frigate]

rewarded as in many irons camping bowfa and some not even bringing a blowpipe at all even before the changes

now they have more excuses

[true talon]

so blowpipe is dogass

camping bowfa is fine

[final frigate]

you still bring it xd

[obsidian venture]

🤣🤣🤣

[true talon]

i never brought it

[final frigate]

that's the fun part

yeah i can imagine

[obsidian venture]

He’s the iron you’re talking about dw

🤗

[final frigate]

i see name dw

[obsidian venture]

Good good

[final frigate]

unlucky

[sharp tendon]

lol

[true talon]

People were up in arms over monkey room taking a few ticks longer.....

[obsidian venture]

Monkey room was faster post update

[true talon]

infact it wasnt even longer, because they removed 2 waves and made you max hit

[obsidian venture]

Unless you’re chatting about in general

[true talon]

Biggest update to toa was purples went from 15% to 8% at 500 which is good

brings it more in line with CM and HM tob

[obsidian venture]

Long term health it’s fine

But it’s still the same length so that’s unfortunate

Long term health would have been better if all invo lvls were affected

[true talon]

Its because they didnt tackle the parts that make the raid take for fuckng ever, which is p1 and p2 wardens

[sharp tendon]

I wish you didn't have to be omega skilled to do a 500 invo raid in sub 30 mins

Idk how people do that but mine are around 38-40 mins long

[final frigate]

guy never fails to surprise me man

content every time i come here

[obsidian venture]

Yeah ngl

[true talon]

go do p2 warden without a shadow an come back an say its not the longest part in the raid

[final frigate]

ok but 28 and 39 mins is a big big diff

[obsidian venture]

You can ask for a vod review or just post board

[final frigate]

you don't need to be omega skilled to cut 5+ mins off your current

[obsidian venture]

39 min means you’re afking

[final frigate]

especially now with everything much easier you don't need to do much at all

[obsidian venture]

Or using shit invos, not swarming etc

[final frigate]

just click boss and stay alive

[sharp tendon]

Definitely a skill issue

[final frigate]

people were doing 32 min 545s before changes

[sharp tendon]

I've barely started doing 500s so I'm not surprised

[final frigate]

that's fine yeah vod/board would be good if you want an outside eye

[obsidian venture]

Yeah post board and invos in wdr

And we can sort you out

[sharp tendon]

I'll post it later when I get off work and ping you two. ty

[obsidian venture]

Puzzles too

[sharp tendon]

Puzzles are zooming for me

[final frigate]

bro just wants more freedom in language

[sharp tendon]

I think the issue is my invos

[obsidian venture]

😅

I’m restricted there too wws

[final frigate]

avoiding content from gnomonkey would be a good start

-4 mins instantly yw

[obsidian venture]

My language has been more refined now

[sharp tendon]

Btw is there any youtube videos that you'd recommend for speedy 500s?

[obsidian venture]

Due to certain changes

[final frigate]

reynold and warmups

[obsidian venture]

Reynolds/warmups

[final frigate]

ie

[obsidian venture]

Damn I’m
Ie

[sharp tendon]

Ty

[final frigate]

[sharp tendon]

[final frigate]

ie^2

[obsidian venture]

🤝

[sharp tendon]

I think I need to take off the training wheels and throw on dehydration and remove OD and more overlords

[obsidian venture]

Yes

Easy 3 min save at the minimum

[sharp tendon]

For sure

More overlords suck. It adds so much time to kephri

[final frigate]

like look at this title man the guy is an absolute gem

gnomonkey will say it's fine if you get 45 mins with the same gear, content is hard

like that helps nobody serious about wanting to improve

[fossil epoch]

pff what a noob, cant even get a shadow from a 500

[obsidian venture]

Is why lots of endgame pvmers look down on him

Whether he cares for that is one thing, but he’s quite the meme

But has a following unfortunately

[fossil epoch]

its almost like gnomonkey tries to cater to a larger audience because he is a content creator

[final frigate]

catering is one thing

[obsidian venture]

It’s almost like we understand that

[final frigate]

intentionally giving terrible info is another

[obsidian venture]

Also it’s fair to critique that

[final frigate]

you can make guides on budget and iron runs while still showing good procedure

[obsidian venture]

You can cater to a group without spreading bad info

[final frigate]

whether you have masori or bowfa doesn't change the fact that ovls/od/ps are awful invocations

but wcyd

big subscriber must be correct

[obsidian venture]

Using certain language, good explanations and helping out outside of that can make the difference

At the end of the day he’s getting the bag

But he’s still a subpar endgamer for info

👍

[final frigate]

i only feel bad for his fans who don't even know that the info is bad

hard to improve if you believe what you're currently learning/doing is already good

[idle rapids]

What helped me most going for 500 was cheesing akkha, some dude made a vid on it forget who but that was rlly good

[obsidian venture]

Idk if Peekays was around, but I had to hold off on so many gnome fans in the early toa days

Most of them changed their stance tho which is good

[final frigate]

i started toa like 6 months ago unlucky

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

[final frigate]

was doing better content like slayer and vorkath

[obsidian venture]

I held those channels down mate

Now I’m retired

Since toa release.. and there was some specimen for sure

[final frigate]

only for jagex to make a few changes and funny man to make a few videos undoing everything