game-update

[hasty shard]

remove baba path
ba-bye

[hard axle]

only -500m

[obsidian venture]

Might as well

[hasty shard]

y tho

[hard axle]

idk

funny

[minor whale]

Shamans are now 50 hp

Was a fun little surprise this morning

[obsidian venture]

Yeah but that’s whatever

2 shot

[hard axle]

and max hit on ranged too

[hasty shard]

yeah it is funny

[minor whale]

Going from 80% of the time one shotting them to "Oh what"

It's overall better

[hasty shard]

join me in making 2k enh crystal keys

[minor whale]

But feels a little weird

[obsidian venture]

They might tweak it

I’ll test the changes later

[minor whale]

I think it might be a slight waves nerf but can just camp ranged mostly now without using brain

[hard axle]

I'm still in the boat where if they're fully committing to making toa the billybob raid, then the rewards shouldn't be nearly as good

[obsidian venture]

Wonder if it’s worth running high invos

Could probably get s30 545s with the changes

[hasty shard]

i think its funny how unfort masori is so fuckin strong

[obsidian venture]

But is that worth to do now? Idk

[hasty shard]

like fort just adds defenses 😭

[hard axle]

dude, imagine if melee

[hasty shard]

wawaweewa

[hard axle]

had masori equivalent

[hasty shard]

i mean theres blood moon and oath does that count

[hard axle]

tanky as shit, bis dps without any sacrifice between accuracy/strength

[hasty shard]

ezscaping

[hard axle]

nah, oath sacrifices str bonus for the acc

[hasty shard]

i mean like pretorva

why touch bandos 😭

vardorvis gear fr

[jolly ember]

has anyone looted a mossy key from moss giants today? im 2x rate on one and crying

[hard axle]

oh AND barely any negatives on masori is fucking wild

[hasty shard]

it pains me that crystal is worse tank

especially when its locked to 2h

[frail bough]

Has anyone done checks for ice demon things yet

[hard axle]

scroll up

[true talon]

the pieces to add that defense also cost more than masori itself lmao

[obsidian venture]

4x bclaw

[hard axle]

emberlight hitting 61s

[frail bough]

ty

holy

[minor whale]

LOL

[hasty shard]

holy

[minor whale]

Tell me it's inaccurate as shit or something

Or is harm just a dead item now fully

[true talon]

appearntly you just 4 burning claw him with spec pot XD

[frail bough]

lmao

[hasty shard]

LOL

VERTICAL

[minor whale]

Hahahahahahahaha

[hard axle]

https://x.com/Livey_/status/1937859986304250362/photo/1

Livey (@Livey_)

demonbane good yippee (solo cm)

X · Jun 25, 2025, 1:06 PM

sorry, not scroll up

but here you go

[frail bough]

tyvm

[true talon]

Thank god, it was very unfun to fight ice demon without a tbow

[hasty shard]

not even a max

[true talon]

Even with a tbow the boss still sucked

Not gonna talk about harm, because normal spellbook sucks

[hard axle]

they really can't give harm a single fucking W lol

[hasty shard]

oh no it might be stronger than shadow in some places fuck!!

[hard axle]

its almost like you can control elemental weaknesses

[hasty shard]

i swear every time i bring it up people get actually scared of a harm buff

why??

[true talon]

What if harm was a elemental powered staff that shot spells based on the monsters weakness.

[hasty shard]

why does shadow need to be bis literally everywhere for mage 😭

[hard axle]

what if you shoved a pipe up ice demon's butt

[hasty shard]

melee/range arent this bad

[obsidian venture]

No harm for solos is interesting

[true talon]

because of pvp

[obsidian venture]

Wonder if team tech changes

[hasty shard]

tass

[minor whale]

Hear me out
Make default spellbook damage scale with mage level at a fixed amount

[hasty shard]

harm is actually unnerfed in pvp

tome still gives 50% there

[true talon]

harm is broken in pvp

which is why a harm buff is frowned upon

[hasty shard]

its not even buffing harm

[true talon]

however the reason harm sucks, is because normal spellbook sucks lol

[hasty shard]

its just like letting it hold elemental spells to autocast OR increasing weaknesses where relevant

like idfk make harm bis at wisp/nm please

[true talon]

Same reason dragon hunter wand fucking sucks

[hasty shard]

its why i was hoping they'd just disable thralls at yama like they are in chasm of fire

[true talon]

because normal spellbok sucks

[hasty shard]

its 100% an option they have to make harm more viable in spots

[hard axle]

except this fucking makes ZERO sense because elemental weaknesses don't fucking exist in pvp

[minor whale]

DHW is now 3rd bis barraging weapon in the game behind Kodai and NM staff

Which is really funny

[hasty shard]

oh true

[hard axle]

I'd wager jagex doesn't want to force more people to PNM if harm has 5 meta locations and elicit complaints

[hasty shard]

100%

[hard axle]

meanwhile purging staff being psuedo-bis at yama

[rain fulcrum]

Time to disable thralls and still have Arceus pull ahead with double dc

[steady saddle]

The drop rate is no longer 1/16. Mod goblin replied to me on reddit saying the drop rate is nerfed and is now a little bit higher than the base drop rate from normal giants. It just makes the boss useless to kill because its so much slower than killing normal giants. So nothing changed at all and its actually worse than before because the boss no longer drops loot

[hasty shard]

exactly lol

[minor whale]

Double dc is so good

[hasty shard]

arceuus is just going to keep being the dominant book lol

[hard axle]

indeed

[hasty shard]

adding 50% ele bonuses to things is just literally doing nothing

[rain fulcrum]

Just wait till they buff thralls by removing need for the book

[hasty shard]

i dont think 100% even does anything 😭

[rain fulcrum]

It doesn't

[hasty shard]

WHY did they even propose buffing thralls

[rain fulcrum]

Idk they love the Arceus book

[hasty shard]

i cannot fucking wrap my head around that
that was fucking 30x alching at fountain tier 😭

[small anvil]

Add a new tier of spells at 105 magic req

[rain fulcrum]

Can't wait to get mega thralls upgrade from next boss

[hasty shard]

the best thing about arceuus spells even is that they're just way more compatible with sbs than standards

like good luck doing death charge w/ harm lol

wasnt even a qol thing it was just flat out buffing the dps lol

at most have a thrall upgrade make them run instead of walk

[hard axle]

yeah im going to trade my kitty in for death runes if they don't lock this behind GM

[true talon]

only people they force is irons and even then the benefit would have to be astronimically better than shadow due to the page cost, wrath cost, the fight would have to have no adds for death charge and the loss of thralls.

[hard axle]

[hard axle]

sir

think

[minor whale]

Do you have a link to this

[hard axle]

if harm becomes valuable, people go there to grind it

even though they're voluntarily going to grind it

they'll still bitch and moan

you're nto wrong about irons though.

jagex has consistently done stuff to keep nm uniques worthless and I do think it's because non-zero amount of them play irons and don't want to grind out nightmare

[true talon]

phosani could become more popular if the base loot wasnt dogass. i feel the boss is hated, because one its not rewarding and the payout takes an extremely long time.

the fight itself is good

[hard axle]

https://www.reddit.com/user/JagexGoblin/

im seeing 0 mention of this

[true talon]

[hasty shard]

phosani having the same table as normal nightmare is silly

like, bass drop is not designed for a solo

[hard axle]

only 3.6x

been 4x on a few grinds and they're arguably worse

[true talon]

nah hes 10x

he hasnt had a single roll in 3600 kc

full ring is 1068 lol

[hard axle]

[steady saddle]

https://i.imgur.com/2Wd5Psb.png

[hard axle]

imagine he double deathed

and just didnt know

[hard axle]

i see

[finite oak]

Yeah, they didn't buuff the drop from before. Which was 1/16

[steady saddle]

https://i.imgur.com/ubhH3Ib.png

[minor whale]

That's not them saying it's a nerf to the key drop rate

They're saying that the key drop rate (as it was) is increased from base hill giants (like it always was)

[steady saddle]

No they are saying the drop rate from the boss is now the same as the normal mobs but slightly better

[minor whale]

That's definitely not saying what you said it was saying at the very least, unless you decide to interpret and re-word what he said

[finite oak]

No, and Goblin specifically said in here it's 1/16

[finite oak]

This

[minor whale]

This was after the Reddit message you got, it's 1/16, you're just unlucky

[steady saddle]

I see but what did he mean with the message on reddit then

Its in context of the drop rate from the boss, not the normal mobs

[minor whale]

While talking about Obor

He says

[steady saddle]

Definitaly not bryophyta unless im EXTREMELY unlucky

[finite oak]

That they took the normal giant drops and buffed the key chance for the bosses

[minor whale]

"It's similar to normal giants, but with an increased chance at keys"

Like

[zinc lily]

i do see jad has a 40% weakness against water spells but the outside tzhaar creatures dont... is this meant to be like this or just a oopsie ?

[minor whale]

An oopsie

[finite oak]

Might be bugged

[quartz marsh]

preaching to the choir buddy if we think its bad were the idiots

no winning

[glacial meadow]

just chirping in cuz im trying to farm bryo for the 5 keys for the ca too and im almost at 1 key for 100 kills

[minor whale]

I mean you're just reading it wrong, it's very clearly 1/16 still and also the system is just flat more rewarding overall

[glacial meadow]

seems wrong if its happening to a lot of people already idk

[steady saddle]

I dont understand your comment srry

[minor whale]

If it's a bug that's one thing but the system as a whole isn't somehow worse

[quartz marsh]

i already complained

got mogged

[finite oak]

Mr Pink for some reason thinks it's worse than before, despiet them just adding something new

[quartz marsh]

it is worse

there is no reason to farm keys off obor

[minor whale]

Before:
Grind out 16 keys from giants
Kill 16 boss
Get 1 key from boss, and loot from 17 boss kc.

Now:
Grind out 16 keys from giants
Kill 16 boss
Get 1 key from boss, and loot from 17 boss chests

[quartz marsh]

better off going wildy or kourend

[minor whale]

It's the same loot

You just get it from a chest instead of directly from the boss drop

Mr. Pink is just not understanding the change

[finite oak]

Have you actually tried to go for the uniques? Cause i can promise you killing nothing but moss giants for months is brain-melting to the extreme

[quartz marsh]

i got the bryo essence before the change

[steady saddle]

What is the odds that in 74 kc I get 1 key if its 1/16. And someone else I talked to had 100 kc no keys

[quartz marsh]

56kc grinded them all in wildy

[oblique mesa]

50/50

[zealous ledge]

the droprate seems bugged. done 50kills for 1 key when in the blog post they said it will be increased drop rate for keys. up from 1/16

[minor whale]

He just doesn't get the change has put the loot into chests instead of from the boss, while the boss drops keys at the same rate and is thus an option to farm them
Before you didn't have the option to farm the boss for keys, you HAD to grind keys out from normal giants and then kill the boss for the loot

[steady saddle]

I know how drop rates work it just seem very unlikely that its 1/16 if multiple people are reporting not seeing drops multiple times over the rate

[quartz marsh]

yeah sure but the drops are so ass from obor there is no point to key farm even with increased rate

[minor whale]

Holy shit

[quartz marsh]

thats the point im driving

[finite oak]

Just don't do it then!

[steady saddle]

that is also my opinion

[frail bough]

If you don't like grinding normal giants, you can grind the boss. It's as simple as that.

[quartz marsh]

you are better off doing to wildy or kourend

[frail bough]

You are probably correct. But this is an alternative option

[minor whale]

They didn't intend to make farming the bosses be the best method for keys

[frail bough]

Nothing about it is worse, it's an extra method for getting keys.

[minor whale]

It's literally just an option to do while getting kc

[quartz marsh]

but its an alternate so ass it mayaswell not even be one

[minor whale]

If you want to do it, you can

It's not

You can kill Byro in max gear in literally 2 hits 80% of the time

[zealous ledge]

they said in the blog. boss will give increased droprate for the keys.

[minor whale]

It's MUCH faster if you do that

[frail bough]

I will 100% not be doing moss giants and will just kill the boss.

[minor whale]

For people going for clogs, boss is the way to go

[steady saddle]

Why would the most difficult method of obtaining keys not be the best way. They literally just want to lure you to the wildy and get pked is my opinion

[quartz marsh]

im not talking about bryo im talking about obor

[frail bough]

🤦‍♂️

[hasty shard]

it also summons growthlings 80% of the time :)

miserable boss

[finite oak]

Obor is not a profitable boss to grind, what is neww

[minor whale]

Ok and at Obor you can kill him with Shadow in a few hits
This literally just gives people the option to kill boss for kc and some keys

Instead of being bored out of their mind at hill giants

[steady saddle]

I know you talking about obor but I was more bored killing bryophita than killnig moss giants in catacombs

[quartz marsh]

so far youve mentioned having a shadow and being maxed

at bosses aimed at lower people

n1

[minor whale]

Yes
For people who don't have that stuff, kill the normal non-boss variants like you always were forced to do before

For people who do have that stuff, this provides an alternative

The keys have the same value as a boss kill did, without having to kill the boss

It's literally just a system that benefits everyone

[finite oak]

If Bryo actually gives keys on droprate she should still be at least as quick than outside of wildy moss giants

[steady saddle]

Im sure its bugged, atleast for bryo

[quartz marsh]

any clogger is going to farm kourend for potential totem pieces or wildy for increased rate

[rare grotto]

@winter hearth do the purp weighing change post 500 invo? as in 550 is different and 600 as well

or does it just stop at 500

[true talon]

@winter hearth now that we shifted most herb drops into seeds, is there any chance we get a revisit on the demonic spade? that was a very much looked forward to reward that was scrapped for basically no reason.

If exp is a concern, then make it give reduced exp

[lethal estuary]

Anybody else unable to kill growth kings at bryo? 50/50 she dies to double vw specs before they spawn and they I’m soft locked

[minor whale]

@obsidian venture @hard axle How's scobo at Ice?

[finite oak]

I am unsure what specs you are talking about, but you made sure to equip the axe, not just use it? They changed how that works

[hard axle]

havent tested, at work

[lethal estuary]

Yah no matter what I try they regen 1 hp the same tic they hit 0 hp and are immortal

[gritty frigate]

@winter hearth Help is there a bug with combat achievement rewards???! I just claimed from ghommal but didn't receive any exp lamp

[obsidian venture]

Can’t test till later

But I can ask folks

[minor whale]

[obsidian venture]

Currently tho, b claws is tech

[minor whale]

Just bclaws with spec pot?

[winter hearth]

Will raise with the team beast!

[gritty frigate]

if it helps I had the tier completed before update but didn't claim the rewards, only claimed after update

[minor whale]

That for solo CMS?

Because damn that's funny

[obsidian venture]

Ye

In general for solos, bgs has more potential than maul as well due to oathplate

Another thing to note is that d claws with oath would be better than a maul

Just gotta compare bgs to claws and sim that

[mild matrix]

ah, goblin responded to me earlier confirming it was 1/16 still so I was basing it off that - either way though I think it's bugged as my rng is coming out closer to 1/100 which is similar to others in here 🙂

[rare grotto]

goblin, any clarification on if the purp weighing changes at 550/600 as well or if it stops at 500

[ember token]

(it's good that keys might be 1/100 from obor and bryo as at 1/16, killing the bosses would be the best way to get the keys, making it faster to get them than before)

[finite oak]

Yeah, but goblin said it's 1/16

[surreal pewter]

@winter hearth Despite the herb box being 7 herbs now, checking a full herb box says that there are 10 herbs inside.

[upper ice]

goated update today

lets fing go

[winter hearth]

Will make a note

[odd linden]

change the shaman monkey hp back to 15 😦

[surreal pewter]

Not for me, I wasn’t expecting the loot portion of the sweep up this week. I just lost about 30K herbs from herb boxes

[upper ice]

thats good tho

fuck irons

but perma task for gm

[rare grotto]

goblin, any clarification on if the purp weighing changes at 550/600 as well or if it stops at 500

[upper ice]

goated...

i dont even have gm and im happy af

[ember token]

technically you don't NEED to have gm

[surreal pewter]

I mean I get the sentiment, but I’m not an iron

[upper ice]

u do

[ember token]

as long as you were gm once in the past and made a zuk helm

[zinc lily]

i think it stopped at 500 but is was still worth going higher because of other drops i read something like this

[upper ice]

u need to wear the zuk helm inside to get the boost

[ember token]

you can show the zuk helm

[upper ice]

no

thats not how it works

[ember token]

that's how its unlocked yeah

[upper ice]

need to be wearing it

[ember token]

you dont need to be gm to unlock it

[upper ice]

ok bro

nox was just lying then lmfao

[ember token]

you do need to be wearing it

[upper ice]

yes

[ember token]

but you dont need to be gm to unlock the perk

[rare grotto]

yeah but i'm specifically talking about the weighing

cause those change every 50 invo

but it's unclear if they change at 550/600 as well

[upper ice]

ok so you unlock the perk with a retroactive zuk helm

[ember token]

you can unlock it (and be unable to use it) without being gm

[upper ice]

but you cant wear it inside inferno/fc

so you dont get the perk

so you still need to get gm lmfao

.

what was the point of that bro are u bored

[minor whale]

You can unlock it but not use it seems like not unlocking it lmao

[upper ice]

ye dude just had nothing better to do rn

respect i got baited

[ember token]

https://tenor.com/view/grinch-meme-grin-gif-12994505

[upper ice]

i respect it honestly

[timber drift]

wen monkey hp hotfix

[ember token]

goblin never promised any changes or a hotfix

he's simply going to bring it up to the team and they'll discuss if they want to change it

[vestal jetty]

Goblin should get jagex team to sort out yama as the content is dead

[ember token]

yeah werent you saying yama was going to keep getting updates every week, weeks ago

and then there hasnt been a yama update since you said that

[timber drift]

think they just need to fire who made that change and hotfix it

[marble lotus]

sulphur nagua's loot changed, is it intended for them to be dropping unnoted coal? was always noted previously

[vestal jetty]

Yep, i can see they listened to me. Now lets go back to updating yama

[floral blaze]

whats minimum def level for steel ring? 10 def?

[rare grotto]

goblin sorry to spam but can u clarify how purp weighing work at 550/600, does it still change past 500 or

[tawny tide]

You’re the first person I’ve seen not like Yama

[austere mulch]

Skilling raid where the mega is demonic spade

Stay with me now

[heady saddle]

Fix TOA skulls jagex! Cant 1 tick them anymore 😭

[vestal jetty]

I do like yama, am just saying its completely dead

[plush gull]

did they add earth weakness to p2 wardens if not why not

[frail bough]

should be fixed already

[heady saddle]

Ohh nice! 😎

[plush gull]

harmony contracts bad and sensory clouding too expensive go afk demons with demonbane

dang harmony and sensory clouding are both down now, 4m to try a boss is still too much tho

[limber briar]

Sensory clouding is 200k? Lmao

[plush gull]

a few days ago it was 500k and all others were 50k. glad to see people are afking demons with demonbane to finish the job

[limber briar]

Its also the people going for radiant are done so less demand

[inland oyster]

Anywhere I can read a complete list of loot changes? I notice nagua loot has changed, and I don't see it on the blog.

[limber briar]

Think they had a spreadsheet in the blog iirc

Iirc it was click here for spreadsheet

[inland oyster]

For seeds and fish at bosses & stuff, I saw that one

[limber briar]

Ah I skimmed it

[plush gull]

is there really no chance harmony contract becomes more expensive than horn? harmony contract is rarer

[frail bough]

...?

[upper ice]

roathplate

[plush gull]

maybe they can just make pizza contract the same as harmony contract

[limber briar]

Or just do the 4m contracts till you're good and make money back after?

[true talon]

Its great you are disappointed in dossier when it rolls contracts now. since if it rolled teleports it would be a 3m+ drop XD

[plush gull]

pizza contract more expensive than 4 of the oathplate contracts but its not 4m

[sterile breach]

Yo you're a straight up loser lad, imagine hating something other people choose to do that doesn't affect you, POS

[true talon]

teleports over 200k+ right now

[upper ice]

l0l0l

[limber briar]

Its because its a cosmetic with 1 time completion with no repeatability

[plush gull]

the teleports still teleport you into a danger zone for mobs right? are there any other teleports like that besides burning amulet after zombie pirates were added

[tawny tide]

Don’t even think about you

[upper ice]

my bad!

[plush gull]

but what if harmony contracts become more expensive than horns

[limber briar]

They wont?

[plush gull]

but harmony contracts are rarer and u dont get them back on completion

[true talon]

horn is piss anyways, surprised it hasnt been buffed lol.

[limber briar]

Because no one will buy them if they're more than horns....? So the demand goes down

[plush gull]

o thats fair ur smart

[limber briar]

The cost of that and oathplate acquisition is linked to the items

[true talon]

well on brightside the contracts and the shard system has all 3 oathplate items around same price

[plush gull]

rip oathplate helm dreams

[limber briar]

Will happen 3 years from now for raids 4

[plush gull]

they should nerf horn so harmony contract gets cheaper

[limber briar]

Horn will find a use with future content/buff. When? Who knows.

[austere mulch]

The problem is it won’t

[limber briar]

No shot they leave it useless as an item from an "end game duo boss"

[tawny tide]

Always blows my mind how many of yall have clairvoyance

[austere mulch]

Because that scope is limited to the following dependencies:

1. Content needs to have insanely high crush def
2. Content also needs to have high base def
3. Content needs to be susceptible to melee
4. Content needs to have its defense be drainable by a cap that allows the full value of maul and has to be greater value than other def reduction methods (bgs, Ralos, etc)

All of which go against their goal of stepping away from def reduction meta, as they’ve been attempting for years since nightmare

If all 4, technically 5, of those metrics aren’t met, it’s not worth using horn. And that’s because horn is only good with maul or hammer

[limber briar]

All they have to do is let you horn yourself and insta buff

For solo content

[austere mulch]

Had they just released it as polled, where it worked with the first accuracy attempt for claws, it’d at least have like 2-3 additional niche uses

But they scaled it back prematurely - seemingly without too much thought

[limber briar]

#game-update message

[austere mulch]

Obviously they would hope for that to be the case. That’s not the problem though

The problem is the requirements to make it even remotely useful are extremely specific and against their entire general design goal

Which is phasing out def reduction meta

[austere mulch]

Yama fits this description perfectly. If Yama didn’t have 333 crush def though, and instead had 80-100 like its slash/stab def, horn would no longer be worth using

[frail bough]

I'm sure there are scenarios where they could fit it in.
1 and 2 in your points, while probably more likely than not, can be ignored if there is a mob that is likely to be one shot but not guaranteeing a hit would be detrimental to the fight.

I'm sure there are more than just that as well.

Would they make something like that? probably not but as an example - it's not out of the realm of possibility to come up with things where it could still be helpful.

[austere mulch]

Even in that instance, you’d likely be better off using a multi hit wep, like Macs, for two acc rolls and using the spec elsewhere

Unless they made the mechanic absurdly punishing to force it

[small anvil]

Macs don't have 2 accuracy rolls, the second is contingent on first hitting

DDS I'm not sure about

[austere mulch]

The other double hit weps*

Blades, etc

[small anvil]

If the goal is to land at least one DMG*

[austere mulch]

DDs also has two acc rolls yeah

Chally as well (meme lol)

[small anvil]

Can you roll 0/25?

[austere mulch]

Yeah

[frail nebula]

Looks like a harmonized nightmare staff with earth surge is kinda getting close to a shadow's dps at whisperer, which is neat

[small anvil]

Macs cannot though I'm quite sure

[austere mulch]

Its two completely independent rolls

[hasty shard]

then you would probably use other guaranteed hit specs

[austere mulch]

Macs are kinda like chins

[hasty shard]

or poison dynamite /s

[austere mulch]

Or fast hitting weps like bp/swift/eye etc

[hasty shard]

oh ok longbow spec is 35% neat

[frail nebula]

to be clear, macs do have 2 accuracy rolls

it only attempts the 2nd roll if the first one hits, though

[small anvil]

Yeah I wasn't clear

[frail nebula]

so 0/25 isn't possible, but 25/0 is

[small anvil]

I meant if the goal is to do >1 DMG

Macs are not advantages

[frail nebula]

very true

[small anvil]

Advantaged

[frail nebula]

sulphur blades might be though

since I believe those just have 2 independent rolls?

[small anvil]

Are the other double hit not the same?

[frail nebula]

nope

[austere mulch]

But it’s like, the whole point around stepping away from def reduction is to let players feel like they’re not forced into using specific specs

[frail nebula]

that trait is unique to the macs

[small anvil]

I didn't know that

[austere mulch]

And anywhere you can remotely make horn viable

[frail nebula]

since it mirrors how the moons themselves attack

[austere mulch]

It’s got to be to the degree of being forced more or less

[small anvil]

That's... Huh

Weird shit

[frail nebula]

other ones are just straight up 2 separate attacks, at the same time

that's also why the macs have to have such a high accuracy bonus

[small anvil]

I only read the macs wiki page and assumed it would carry over to the double hits

[frail nebula]

yeah, but they are indeed special

[austere mulch]

Macs are the unique one in this case

And Abby dagger I guess

[small anvil]

Then yeah you'd just use sulphur

[frail nebula]

the other nagua weapons can indeed roll 0/25, as an example

[small anvil]

In this theoretical case

[frail nebula]

macs are like reverse claw specs

[true talon]

just like ralos did lol

[small anvil]

So sulphur could actually be better than macs at stuff like nylos?

Outside of set bonus

I know people drop sulphur in speeds but having diff accuracy mechanics

[austere mulch]

Ralos is hilarious bc it was released as it was described, and then nerfed to be released as intended, then “buffed” aka fixed to be as originally released (again, as described) so that they can have a niche use that’s not limited to one piece of content

Which is… suspiciously close to what’s happened with horn

[limber briar]

Yeah I guess you only use it at tob/olm head

[austere mulch]

Except it was never released as described/polled

[small anvil]

I actually don't know how the ralos spec calcs, just know people use it at maiden

[[tonalstic]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tonalztics_of_ralos

[austere mulch]

10% of target magic def = this value is drained from target def

It was blogged to have a cap of never draining past 50% of def, but ppl said that sucked so they removed it in a later blog and released with out it, changed it back, got the same complaints again, and the fixed it

Uno reverse x3

[small anvil]

Oh scaling off of magic lvl is wacky

[true talon]

its meant to be an item to compliment tbow.

[austere mulch]

Perfectly designed for maiden at least 🤣

[small anvil]

Magic lvl not magic def

But yeah

[true talon]

things with high magic lvl are also tbowed

as tbow scales wit 2 stats of a monster

[small anvil]

I was saying to tm

[true talon]

oh

but ya it was meant to be used with tbow as a ranged substitue for dwh/maul

[small anvil]

He said magic def, which magic basically is

[true talon]

however the downside is it fucking inaccurate as fuck

i tried to bring it to tob in place of a melee wep

[small anvil]

But it's a separate stat that's often kinda lower?

[true talon]

and it just dont hit lol

[austere mulch]

Yeah meant magic lvl woopsie

[small anvil]

Yeah no worries

[true talon]

using it at corp for example that shit misses so much

[small anvil]

Wasn't trying to be obnoxious about it, just it's an important difference

[true talon]

they should have made it 4 tick double hit range wep

then it be useful outside of its defense reduction niche

Its very sad that place like colo uniques are just lol

prayer armor, niche shit boots that have 1 recoil effect cap for some reason and then a ranged dwh that is awful

[austere mulch]

At least it doesn’t take a billion levers to make Ralos spec good

They just

[small anvil]

It being a flat reduction but percent scaling is actually really cool

[austere mulch]

Haven’t don’t it

[small anvil]

When 0def

[austere mulch]

at all lol

[true talon]

echo boots should have a damage cap increase from 1 to like 4

should match the recoil

[small anvil]

I think horn and ralos both suffer from it being good in the places group content is good

And there's just not that much group content on bosses

[true talon]

even in group content the horn is ass

its 1 niche is to land a eldermaul at yama

[small anvil]

It's good for alt content but meh

[true talon]

maybe if it was flat 25% spec regardless of whoever it hit

then you can have 1 horn guy buff everyone

[austere mulch]

Horn’s best use case is being a tradable godbook in tob

And that’s terrible

[small anvil]

Lol

Oh nooo

Is that what it's used for

[austere mulch]

That and Yama mauls lol

[small anvil]

It'll desync the spec timers

[true talon]

Imagine doing toa and having 1 guy with horn and 1 guy with red keris and the horn guy buffs everyone and the red keris guy debuffs the boss

[austere mulch]

And trolling lvl 3 skillers training slayer

[true talon]

woulda be pretty cool

[small anvil]

For the time to trade

[austere mulch]

Nah you just work out the timing with ring flicks

[small anvil]

Oh

I didn't realize lb was brought in speeds actually

[austere mulch]

But yeah it’s a 4 invent save in 5 man speeds, which is literally the best thing about it 😭

[small anvil]

But that makes sense

And it's cheap enough to trade to randoms lol

Trading heart to randoms is something someone mentioned and like

[austere mulch]

Imo it really should be buffed

1. Should work with claws as polled (adds like 2-3 extra niche use cases)
2. Potentially add functionality to use solo
3. Potentially allow it to work with other combat styles to a degree, but only giving the guaranteed hit to melee to keep its primary identity

2 and 3 should not both happen though, should be one or the other imo

[small anvil]

Solo horn is the likely place it ends up I feel

I don't think jagex particularly like alt requirements

[hard axle]

6s makes it harder to alt with ngl

[small anvil]

People are able to get it into muspah right

But I guess Duke isn't possible

Ya solo might not be allowed now that I think of it more

[hard axle]

I would need to test muspah with claws/bgs/maul but I personally can't see it over zcb

[small anvil]

Lol it would be funny if they let you mount horn outside a boss

So you could click it to get horn buff

And skyrocket demand for horns

While also not letting you smuggle it into some instances they don't want you to be able to guarantee maul

[plush gull]

imo soulflame horn is too strong and needs to be tuned down a bit

also solo horn would just be op

would bring it into sol if it happened tho

[hasty shard]

some sort of npc to burden carrying it

a beast perhaps

[plush gull]

the taming timeline

i think i voted for taming but if i voted now id vote for sailing just on the off chance they let u melee zuk by sailing the shield to him at the cost of not being able to block zuk hits and having to pneck instead

would be cool

[fallen mural]

im a little disappointed that beginner clues dont get dropped 100% from obor's chest anymore. ive done like 4 and havent gotten a single one sadge

[frail nebula]

I'm kinda impressed they managed to make the monkey room worse with these changes

no idea why they thought they should increase shamans' hp by that much lol

16 hp to 50

[flat plover]

Just did a Chambers and got 15k worth of seeds. Need to revisit these loot table changes. Less herbs fine. 15k for end game content not fine.

[frail nebula]

Yeah the loot table changes seem unbelievably misguided in general

[hazy plover]

Where all is steel ring going to be useful outside of ironmen?

[frail nebula]

based entirely on the reasoning of "back in my day, torstols were 50k"

and that's the end of the reasoning

[frail nebula]

I'm not sure it's even useful for irons

but at least the deranged arch finally has a unique

[ember token]

the sole use is for early/early mid irons to use it at moons basically

[austere mulch]

Wait till you get a sexy double rolling of the saltiest petre you ever did see

[flat plover]

Already had that plenty of times

[austere mulch]

Pvmers in the wildy only place I can think of besides low level iron content

[ember token]

it'll be useful in the same places the granite ring is

[zinc lily]

they should have filled the loot tables with more rune item drops since we basically always high alch them and they cant really go under high alch value

[austere mulch]

They explicitly said they want to avoid that bc it contributes to inflation

Not enough viable gold sinks

[flat plover]

They have essentially turned it into get purples to make money the way these raids are going post update.

[austere mulch]

The result of 10+ years of contributing to the same problem before taking a truly meaningful step toward fixing it unfortunately

[flat plover]

well going to have to revisit the table entirely in this case because when youre going 100kc+ dry it makes raids not viable

[austere mulch]

As long as, on average, cost of supplies are covered without uniques, that’s generally fine imo

Tob has a really good rewards chest

Ores, battlestaves, vials of blood etc

Alchables too ofc. But a good bit of not end of line production items that hold value to their end line alch price

[frail nebula]

really do hope they go back to the drawing board with today's monkey room changes

everything else at toa was at least a bit nicer

but the monkey room is a pretty enormous step back

[ember token]

they dont need to go back to the drawing board though

quite simple to just lower the increased health a bit

[austere mulch]

Problem is basically just shaman hp scaling isn’t it

[frail nebula]

yeah

to actually match their description of "slightly increased"

because I do kinda want to hear from whoever thought a 212.5% hp increase was a "slight increase"

though the waves also do feel worse IMO now

even putting that aside

I'm not 100% sure but I think there are fewer volatiles now

so you get fewer of them to blow up the thralls with

[rain fulcrum]

Just revert the monkey room changes

[small anvil]

This is just guaranteed 2 shot right?

[rain fulcrum]

If ppl were struggling with 2025 monkey room it was entirely a them issue

[frail nebula]

with a bowfa, yeah

[small anvil]

Blowpipe I was thinking

[rain fulcrum]

Slightly hp increase btw

[small anvil]

Ya that's misleading as f

Idk why it needs to be 50 instead of like 30 tho

[frail nebula]

with a bowfa, you cannot 1 shot them without rigour now

which is kinda wild

considering that at 16 hp

they were a pretty reliable 1 shot

[small anvil]

Yeah

[frail nebula]

even without the max hit guarantee

[small anvil]

It's crazy to 3x

[frail nebula]

more than 3x even lol

[small anvil]

Double would make sense

[frail nebula]

"slightly increased"

[small anvil]

Cuz it basically takes the RNG out

Of low rolling the hit

[frail nebula]

the poison monkeys also went from 10 to 35, though that's not such a big deal imo

it's a 1 shot with a bowfa, so it feels fine

[frail nebula]

I'm wondering if their reasoning was "doubling it isn't an hp increase, so we need to increase it beyond that"

since a guaranteed max hit is double the damage of an average non-guaranteed max hit

[hazy plover]

How much faster are garg tasks going to be now?

[small anvil]

Yeah basically I expect that's why

[frail nebula]

but even then

doubling would only bring it to 32

32 to 50 is still massive lol

[small anvil]

Idk what bowfa maxes

I expect they wanted 2 hits

Or prayer switch

[frail nebula]

it's 2 hits with a prayer switch

and a bowfa

unless you have rigour

with deadeye, crystal armor, assembler, bowfa, anguish

you max hit... 49

guess there's no reason to ever use my ranged prayer in there anymore

[untold crypt]

iirc mods mentioned that the hp increase in monkey room, as well as the addition to max hitting, will prevent the low roll possibility of hitting more than twice to kill them. and tbh for everyone complaining about the change, its just a skill issue. toa is a raid, which is late game content. if you wanted something as easy as chopping wood, go play rs3

[frail nebula]

How about we actually look at what they said in their blog

Where they said they expect this to feel better

I fail to see how it being objectively worse makes it feel better lol

[bronze kernel]

They did cut out 2 waves

[frail nebula]

and it's still slower with the increased shaman hp, pretty sure

consider that if everyone who has done the monkey room says it is worse

[austere mulch]

LOL this would be hilarious and also not surprising as an oversight

[frail nebula]

then they failed in their stated goal of making it feel better

[untold crypt]

toa still easier than its ever been

[minor whale]

It's 2 ticks extra per shaman

It's really not that bad

[frail nebula]

nah, it's not

since that's more time for them to spawn thralls

which are even more ticks

and I don't think we get as many volatiles now

so you'll need to spend even more time killing thralls

it's not just 2 extra ticks and that's it

[warm epoch]

bowfa chads win again

[frail nebula]

lol no

bowfa chads lose unless they already have rigour

with deadeye and an anguish, bowfa max hits a 49

[warm epoch]

not a bowfa chad if you dont have rigour

[true talon]

ring doesnt give magic or range defense, its kinda shit in the wild.

Most pkers spec you with voidwaker

so defense isnt going to help you lol

[austere mulch]

Maybe I’m thinking granite ring

One of them is 24 imbued range def

[untold crypt]

lets be real, the changes are a million times better than what monkey room was at release. 100m isnt that bad of an upgrade for a raid that was made so incredibly easy, as well as drops an item worth over a bill. you can only make it so easy before it stops becoming end game content

[ember token]

granite ring (i) is 24 ranged def now yeah

[true talon]

ya gran ring i

[torpid delta]

just glad they kept the imbued granite ring doubling the negative magic bonus

funniest stat in the game right there

[undone garden]

I got a b4b growthlings spawning at bryo, also it seems like the drops are the same as lvl 42 moss giant. The mossy key is around ~1/100 it appears.

[austere mulch]

It’s already not end game content wym 🤣

[frail nebula]

let's be real though lol

they stated their goal

they failed in their stated goal

pretty considerably

that deserves criticism

and I hope they actually address it in a way that's consistent with their stated objective

[austere mulch]

I would love to see a new chart of the waves

[frail nebula]

first wave is now 2 meleers + shaman

[austere mulch]

Removing volatile and increasing shaman hp is hilarious lol

[torpid delta]

yea which 2 waves got removed anyway

starting ones?

[austere mulch]

Wot the

[frail nebula]

they might have just deleted the first 2 waves?

[austere mulch]

Yeah could be

[frail nebula]

wasn't sure whether or not there were the same number of volatiles, it felt weird

but 50 hp on the shamans is just kinda stupid

[austere mulch]

Max str dinny b for the fiddy + all the extra thralls you’ll have to kill

/s

[meager flame]

if they actually reduced the number of volatiles in the remaining waves in the game

thats funny

[frail nebula]

they may or may not have, I'm not actually sure of it

[crimson berry]

So what’s happened with obor now, is it easier to get the club now?

[frail nebula]

pretty sure it's the same

I don't think you get it from his normal loot, only from his chest

[lunar blade]

monkey room feels so awful takes me 3 hits to kill shammies, 2 hit for rangers, 2 hit toxic monkeys etc

[frail nebula]

which requires the same giant keys as before

[lunar blade]

[frail nebula]

shamans being 2 hits for bowfa feels bizarre and deeply wrong

[meager flame]

tbh though

in some ways its pretty fair

there isn't even in the boss in the next room so like

[frail nebula]

lol

[meager flame]

idk lol

[frail nebula]

monkey room is indeed the actual boss of that path

[hasty shard]

i mean you should just obviously bp shamans now no

[meager flame]

yeah if you always max and always 2 hit with your setup

[frail nebula]

I would if I had a bp 🙃

[meager flame]

you want the fastest weapon that can do that

[hasty shard]

orrr atlatl

[frail nebula]

ehhh

[hasty shard]

yeah atlatls a 1 way

[lunar blade]

I really wanted to try toa out now, but monkey rooms is too hard now

[hasty shard]

and if you camp melee gear you dont need to flick on rigour

[rain fulcrum]

nah the volatility exploding one was the peak monkey room

everything after that was stupid

[meager flame]

they should've honestly just increased the number of exploding monkeys

instead of giving people max hits and changing hp

[frail nebula]

every baboon has been replaced with a volatile baboon

have fun

[meager flame]

unironically that room would've been peak if thats how they had nerfed it originally

[frail nebula]

baboons spawned during the baba fight? best believe they're volatiles

you kill baba and don't remember to move away?

that's right

[meager flame]

just exploding monkeys climbing out of the walls that you kill everything with

[frail nebula]

you blow up

blowing other baboons up with volatiles is honestly a ton of fun

[torpid delta]

the rock baba chucks at you? believe it or not, a volatile

[crimson berry]

But I guess killing him over and over for the key is faster than 1/64 hill giants right lol

[frail nebula]

how often does he drop it?

[zinc lily]

1/16

[frail nebula]

huh

might be faster?

hill giants are probably still faster though

you can cannon them if you really want to

[obsidian venture]

Bowfa waves 💀

But yeah should tune down the hp

@upper ice got owned 😭

[slender vapor]

Fwiw mod goblin was talking about tuning it down so bowfa can 1 hit them

[upper ice]

what did i do

oh tat iron guy who got mad at me l0l

[obsidian venture]

Avg statement too

[hard axle]

4 total now

[obsidian venture]

Yeah peeped

[hard axle]

how many more updates before they delete the entire room

[obsidian venture]

But should be bping waves (if you have it)

2m+ waves is

[upper ice]

bro came up with a whole story about me

over 1 statement

[obsidian venture]

Yeah they had it planned it dw

I respect the effort

[hard axle]

Also, I'm sure they'll tune down shamans, but it's also disingenuous as hell for some reddit nuts to say "monkey rooms got worse" because you have to bp shamans twice when previously you could noodle 4 hits until you hit the numbers you needed

Reminds me of the time when colo enthusiasts were asking for fremmy melee to have its 50 hp pool lowered slightly post mage rebalance and the same redditors were like "just two shot it or bring X more switches"

And guess what, they lowered it 🙂

[slender vapor]

Bowfa 1 shot seems like a reasonable adjustment. But yeah it's definitely already a consistency buff

[hard axle]

people don't remember the times when you could hit 1s and the shaman had like 400 hp each

😭

[slender vapor]

[hard axle]

-2 waves alone saves you more time than shamans got

[slender vapor]

Oh no, my blowpipe consistently 2 shots them now

Whatever will I do!!!

[hard axle]

dude, nothing is more frustrating

than hitting 1-4s

and then u switch targets thinking you got the kill

then having to swap back

consistency is a massive buff

[slender vapor]

1 hping them was the worst

[hasty shard]

im kind of hoping accursed being bugged even more rn means they fix it

[hard axle]

please

[hasty shard]

speccing the meleer would be cool budget to one hit

[hard axle]

you know purging is also bugged right 😭

at yama pet contracts

[hasty shard]

explain

[hard axle]

yama pet contract is supposed to 100% accuracy all specs

[hasty shard]

aboba

[hard axle]

purging staff does not 100% accuracy

on yama himself

accursed not working at monkey room has been busted for years at this point too

something about mage weapons and not being able to gauranteed accuracy i stg

[hasty shard]

it doesnt work on wardens too iirc

nor does ice barrage

[hard axle]

[hard axle]

but yeah, I agree with this

[hasty shard]

the ice barrage one is fucking toxic in leagues lol

[hard axle]

even 40 hp would be a solid middle ground

so you still need to two hit with BP no matter what

[slender vapor]

Yeah. It just needs a bit of tuning

But I think it's better for sure

[hard axle]

If you gave me a zcb knockoff that guarantees accuracy, but only hits 55s with ruby procs, more people would use that than zcb itself

as an example of the benefits of consistency

plus, old shaman on average needed 2 hits regardless lol

[frail nebula]

have you done the new monkey room yet?

[plush gull]

i believe reddit about the monkey room, im not going to bother trying to do toa and 1 shot shamans with salted bofa, im just gonna wait for it to get nerfed

[frail nebula]

I've done the new monkey room

And it definitely feels worse

[hard axle]

yep, tested a bit

[frail nebula]

Because it basically just guarantees mediocre-bad luck

not 1 shotting shamans with bowfa, prayer, and a pot is kinda just stupid too

[plush gull]

they should make venator 1 shot

[hard axle]

it felt shorter unless you're saying they didn't remove the 2 waves as promised?

[frail nebula]

it felt worse

considerably worse

[hard axle]

well, back then it wasn't gauranteed either

[frail nebula]

not necessarily longer

[frail nebula]

well yeah but now it's guaranteed to be bad lol

[hard axle]

if you noodled with bowfa, prayer, and pot back then

you could spend 4 hits with bowfa

same with bp

[frail nebula]

previously I had a very high chance to 1 shot with a bowfa

[hard axle]

but now it's gauranteed 2 hits

with bp

[frail nebula]

now I have a 0% chance to do so

the average time to kill a shaman has gone up considerably

[hard axle]

like I said above and fluffy mentioned

[plush gull]

make them 35 hp so u can 1 shot with venator, as well as full max blowpipe with new boots

or umm 32 ig uess

[hard axle]

they're going to likely lower it so its also gauranteed with bowfa

[plush gull]

for no salt

[hard axle]

but still 2 hits with bp

[frail nebula]

I'd be fine with that

[hard axle]

They did this with colo too

[frail nebula]

but is there actually any indication that they're thinking about that

[slender vapor]

Yes

Goblin earlier

[frail nebula]

Where?

[ember token]

in this channel

[slender vapor]

He even mentioned bowfa 1 shot directly

[hard axle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1lk1dgn/comment/mzoe1kv/

here you go

but yeah, feels worse ain't it - shit is even faster in teams

only could do a solo early

monkey room even without 1 shot does not feel worse

[obsidian venture]

@frail nebula what’s your waves time?

[hard axle]

since the waves are shorter and consistency makes it predictable

[frail nebula]

don't remember off the top of my head and I'm not about to go back in right now

[obsidian venture]

That piece of info would help a lot if you remembered

[frail nebula]

Given that a lot of people are complaining about it, I think it's safe to say that it does not, in fact, feel better to a majority of players

[obsidian venture]

But on avg what you get

[frail nebula]

2ish minutes pre-changes

would be faster but no bp :(

[obsidian venture]

Yeah with bp it’s like 1:50 avg. lower if you focus the right things

1:4x, or the uncommon 1:3x

[frail nebula]

For me, this feels pretty strictly worse since I don't have a bp yet

And bowfa was a reliable 1 shot for the most part before

[obsidian venture]

Pretty sure atlatl would help speed that up ngl

[frail nebula]

I hope they follow through and lower the hp so it continues to be

[obsidian venture]

That’s fine too

[frail nebula]

atlatl would be a minor time save for an inventory slot

like with it right now, I could 2 shot them with a blowpipe

[plush gull]

40 huh... that will make venator good wont it?

[frail nebula]

and that would be worth bringing IMO

but an atlatl isn't that huge of an improvement

and it's not useful anywhere else really

bp still has value at stuff like akkha shadows

[hard axle]

a solid amount of comments were actually from you

You also had a bunch of people being unreasonable and expecting it to be 16 hp so instead of 4 ticks on average to kill, they wanted it even faster

[frail nebula]

Are you really saying it's unreasonable for people to not expect 16hp to 50hp when they described it as a "slight increase"

[obsidian venture]

Bp is strictly just better for toa in general

But bowfa might have more of a use due to akkha changes

Have yet to see that

[hasty shard]

yeah if you dont have bp what are you doing

[frail nebula]

Bowfa is, respectfully

fucking fantastic at new akkha

[hasty shard]

and if you dont somehow have bp, atlatl exists

literal 1 way to 2 hit shaman

[obsidian venture]

I also have to see how bfly is

If perfect

[plush gull]

what is new thrall max hp

[hard axle]

nope, I'm for lowering it to 40 like I said above, or even 30.

But if that's the only change you're focusing on to determine if monkey room is "worse" and ignoring the consistency + shorter room as a whole, then I disagree.

[obsidian venture]

Akkha last phase is good for blind folks

[plush gull]

wiki not updated yet

ill update it if someone tells me thrall hp

[frail nebula]

I'm saying that it feels worse

[hard axle]

cuz I think it was you who said they fucked up monkey room as a whole or something

[frail nebula]

and the fact that there are a number of posts from other people with hundreds of upvotes, I think it's safe to say I am not, in fact, alone

[hard axle]

But if it's just a matter of overtuning the hp increase, lower it

[obsidian venture]

What’s bowfa max and how many switches is it with

[ember token]

they didnt change thrall hp

[hasty shard]

one hitting shamans with bp would be wiiiild

[frail nebula]

lower the hp and the monkey room is fine

[hasty shard]

do not do 30

[frail nebula]

you can still hit 1s on thralls though, iirc

which is weird given the changes to everything else in there

[plush gull]

what if they made it 35 so it requires full bis with salts

[frail nebula]

I'd kinda expect them to make thralls a 1 hit kill with basically everything

[obsidian venture]

Do you do 1 way bowfa?

If so what’s the max

Or 2 way

[frail nebula]

with my setup, and salts, and prayer

I max hit a 49 with bowfa

[hasty shard]

dont reward people doing zkab

[obsidian venture]

Salts 😭

Without salts tho

[frail nebula]

lemme check

[hard axle]

I didn't see anywhere near hundreds of upvotes about this matter tbh

[obsidian venture]

Tbf majority of players are ass at waves anyway

[hard axle]

just a few sporadic comments, which goblin responded to here

[obsidian venture]

So their opinion on it is kinda moot

[hard axle]

ah found one: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1lk2t0m/toa_monkey_room/

[frail nebula]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1lk6d5e/monkey_room_got_worse/

here's another one

[plush gull]

3 hit... i mean even entry mode has 50 hp now and toa is often done before max combats so thats fair

[frail nebula]

it's really not just me

[obsidian venture]

I’m sure it isn’t

[frail nebula]

I think it'll be fine when/if they reduce the hp a bit

but the hp increase is so extreme that it really does significantly worsen the feeling of the room

[obsidian venture]

But folks who aren’t doing good waves to begin shouldn’t be surprised

[plush gull]

so if they change it to 40 hp next week like goblin said will venator be worth bringing?

[obsidian venture]

No

[frail nebula]

when my setup now maxes out at precisely 1 damage short of max hitting them, it does feel pretty shit tbh

[obsidian venture]

Just for waves? Low prior when bp/chins exist

[frail nebula]

goblin didn't say they were changing it to 40 hp next week, he just said he thought 40 hp would be reasonable

unless I've seen further posts

[hasty shard]

why are people using bowfa on shamans 😭

[plush gull]

but u can just bank the venator after now with the thing right

[frail nebula]

because it used to be a reliable 1 shot lol

[obsidian venture]

Tbf they have no bp

[plush gull]

what about 300s where u dont need supplies

[hasty shard]

why!!!

[hard axle]

anything above 32 hp or whatever salted max ranged bp would be fine or it would just be an extreme buff since shamans started with 16 hp and max hit doubles the previous dps

[obsidian venture]

But the bigger crime is salts at baba

[frail nebula]

I have no bp yet and it was a very reliable 1 shot before

[frail nebula]

I've usually done baba after akkha

and I have salts from akkha still active

[hard axle]

[obsidian venture]

Yeah that’s bad is the point

[hard axle]

baba not first is criminal

[obsidian venture]

Especially if you have a fang

Pre fang? Ok excusable maybe

[hard axle]

the only time i've seen it not be criminal is zebak first to avoid the lv4 zebakchatting

[frail nebula]

tbh I haven't actually done much toa since I got my fang

[hard axle]

but that's like 600 raid level

content

[frail nebula]

so I probably should adjust the pathing

I was originally doing baba with bowfa

in which case you really want salts

[hasty shard]

especially now like

0 supply room

[obsidian venture]

Yeah but logic is, salts help mage/range more than melee. Scb goes to 118, whereas mage/range goes to 112

[hard axle]

But yeah, overall - Agreed with lowering hp and toa was made a hell of a lot easier and is definitely not worse like these redditors are claiming.

[frail nebula]

yeah but when I'm ranging baba

[obsidian venture]

So salts being used for melee is a waste

[frail nebula]

the salts make a lot more sense

[plush gull]

if ur doing 300ish with no path invos does order even matter with the akkha/baba changes?

[obsidian venture]

Right but you have a fang

[hasty shard]

its objectively not worse when 2 bp hits is the same ticks as 1 bowfa

[hard axle]

Bro, some of these comments are fucking ridiculous 😭

[obsidian venture]

I can imagine

Handless players

[hard axle]

they're acting like jagex killed toa by overtuning hp instead of making everything one-shottable with a 2t weapon

[tight brook]

downies

[timber drift]

wen monkey hp hotfix

[hasty shard]

also just like two phases outright removed

[hard axle]

I'm not seeing a single fucking praise about akkha changes

[hasty shard]

baba dealing 0 damage meaning you can absolutely blunder monkey room anyways

[hard axle]

because it's not negative

[hasty shard]

and not be punished

[tight brook]

Its reddit. get off the website for osrs brother

[timber drift]

dont care it sucks now just make it play well

[hard axle]

I only got summoned back on because apparently hundreds of people were complaining about shaman hp

[timber drift]

not hard to grasp

[plush gull]

wait so with the akkha changes u can literally do toa without melee now right?

[obsidian venture]

What

[hard axle]

uhhhh, core?

kephri?

[timber drift]

do u mean mage?

still need for p2

[hard axle]

unless u plan to kick the core

[plush gull]

no i mean melee, yeah u wouldnt max on core

[slender vapor]

Mage is monkey room and p2 tech

[timber drift]

melee has more uses than mage

[slender vapor]

Apparently people are dropping down mage switches too

[obsidian venture]

Then pointless

Wait till the eye comes out

[timber drift]

ye u would prob cut some mage switches since its legit p2 only

[hasty shard]

osto eye yak

[obsidian venture]

People will bring 8 ways again pre shadow

[timber drift]

monkey room 1way trident kills

[obsidian venture]

So little need for supplies as is

[hard axle]

They 100% should've added range/mage attacks on baba and then removed chip damage so it ends up being like scurrius's big brother

[obsidian venture]

And baba is now afk

You sadly do lose more prayer at baba unless you 1t flick

But it’s alright as I’m dumping a pot anyway

[timber drift]

anyway

wen monkey hp hotfix

[grim tendon]

Interestingly, Obor kills only count if you get a key as a drop

[obsidian venture]

What hp would you want

[plush gull]

ok i calced it and bofa is too bad at kephri, but maybe with shadow u can not use melee besides core?

[hasty shard]

literally just blowpipe the shaman

[timber drift]

40 and 20 or smth

[hard axle]

20 no, 40 yes

[timber drift]

40 shaman 20 cursed

[obsidian venture]

Still 2 shot with bp

So change wouldn’t matter

[hard axle]

they're all bowfa andies

[timber drift]

shaman would become 1shot with bowfa. cursed would be 1shot with bp

[obsidian venture]

Yeah that’s their problem then ngl

[timber drift]

or 2shot shaman with bp

[obsidian venture]

Bowfa waves when bp exists 🤣

[timber drift]

i bped all of monkey room before

im just saying

[hard axle]

its 2 shot at 50 hp

[timber drift]

ur just assuming shit

[hard axle]

unless ur basically naked

[timber drift]

im aware

but it still is at 40hp and gives u anothe roption

[hasty shard]

with no gear
eagle eye + ddart bp 2 hit
deadeye + amethyst bp 2 hit
rigour + rune bp 2 hit

[obsidian venture]

Holy

Bp tech?!

[hasty shard]

atlatl 1 way 2 hits

[timber drift]

holy yapping

[plush gull]

bruh why does kephri even have a fire weakness if she has 200 mage def? add that to p2 wardens instead

[hasty shard]

tttrue actually

what ele weakness would wardens have

[plush gull]

earth

[slender vapor]

giving up thralls

[hasty shard]

earth ig

[timber drift]

i mean everything was basically <2shot before so i dont see why stuff has to be guaranteed 2shot anyway

[obsidian venture]

[dire mango]

Did they not fix the 400hp huey tails? Says fixed in the blog but watching Jcw do it atm and they have 400hp still

[hard axle]

wouldn't it be air since they're floating?

[hasty shard]

i was thinking p2

[obsidian venture]

Someone mentioned private instances not having hp reduced

[hard axle]

oh

[timber drift]

cursed at 30hp is actually so fucked lmao

[obsidian venture]

But it was brought up to Goblin

Could be a cold fix

[dire mango]

🍝

[obsidian venture]

Unless they change it on Friday

[hard axle]

its the plugin

not the actual hp

the actual hp i tested and summed on excel

it's 300 hp

[dire mango]

ty, blaming RL then

[timber drift]

rigour + amethyst unpotted is 24 now i have to use ddarts to 2shot monkey room nerfed stupid game jagex ass design

[hard axle]

nooooo