game-update

[warm storm]

would it remove alting/boosting entirely? no
but it would reduce it so much that i'd be fine with it

[hard axle]

my point is that it wouldn't reduce it by much

it just ups the demand for it

[vivid ruin]

Ive always said that i feel like top 5 contributors for corp should recieve alchable drops or something, while mvp has chance at unique

[hard axle]

remember the lv3 93 slayer gimmick?

[warm storm]

i adore current corp

600+ kc on iron :3

[hard axle]

19k kc later...

[warm storm]

vw + fang minimum spec method is fun

[pearl patio]

Leave corp alone pls

So I can keep front page

[hard axle]

even more reason to rework

[thick beacon]

im pretty netrual uniques seem garbage so i dont think they have to make it something everyone can get

[hard axle]

only trash because ely doesn't want to work on most modern damage sources

like

why is throwing a rock at a tile not reduced

instead of player

[warm storm]

it's totally worth 700m, it's bis for volcanic mine

[hard axle]

why is the dark core humping my leg not reduced

[hard axle]

its bis for coping on day 1 release

[thick beacon]

to an extent i really like defence isint insane if u could giga cheese things to dmg reduction/defence

i dont see a way they can make it insanely good personally without trivalizing things

[warm storm]

literally just make it work for all damage sources

well not self-damage obv

[jovial sentinel]

irons boosting is lame. but people are going to do it regardless.

i dont think we should really care about it much

people will always find a way to cheat

the game isnt really a competition

[thick beacon]

i dont have any issues with this i geninuely dont even know what works/doesint work with it

i never see anyone use it much

[warm storm]

jagex made pet contract duos not work for irons unless they also put up a contract for a reason

[jovial sentinel]

sure, they can do things if they want

[thick beacon]

but even if they did that idt ppl gona get for ely for any of raids grinds etc

[jovial sentinel]

but that doesnt mean it actually amtters much

it was likely on their mind, because they were originally having them as tradable pets

[warm storm]

ya it won't make it good it would just make it not a joke lol

technically it is optimal to ely flick most content rn but only the sweatiest of sweats would consider it

[thick beacon]

i still do think its wierd cuz if corp came out today it definitely woud be something u can join up together for as ironman

[hard axle]

eh. I don't like this train of thought because like it or not, competition and being able to compared to others in a grindy game like this is part of the fun

[jovial sentinel]

im not saying do nothing

i mean more that it, itself isnt a good reason to not do something

devs should always do what they can, but 'oh no, people will boost' isnt a good enough reason to not

'the challenge' of ironman isnt that pure to begin with. people have cheated it in many areas for ages, theres many situations for multi-accounting

[hard axle]

oh yeah, absolutely

otherwise you would basically go down the rabbit hole of "can't do teams because boosting" and "can't do super hard content because parsec"

it doesn't end until the game is dead

[warm storm]

balancing around parsec is a silly argument lol

[jovial sentinel]

parsec?

[warm storm]

fancy account sharing for services

illegal

[jovial sentinel]

ohh, fair enough. yeah, people are always going to do stuff like that

but really, they are just cheating themselves.

noone cares if they 'win'

but skipping the game means less game to enjoy

[obsidian venture]

Was kinda their thing for solo only contracts

Which is bizarre

[warm storm]

wdym?

[obsidian venture]

They didn’t want to make it duo, to avoid people malding or boosting, but that solo service exists and is more feasible for folks to get by

It’s one thing to group up for time, and another to tackle a challenge

The latter is significantly harder

[jovial sentinel]

that being said, services like that are easier to track and ban

easier not meaning easy.

[hard axle]

yeah, if sigils were duoable, it would be easy as fuck

[obsidian venture]

Not true

Hence why it’s easier for folks to get by as I stated above

[hard axle]

their logic was very twisted

[jovial sentinel]

i mean more, its pretty hard to work out if someone is boosting or just has a gamer friend

[hard axle]

rather they just say "its harder to solo"

[jovial sentinel]

almost impossible

[hard axle]

and leave it at that

[jovial sentinel]

unless they talk about it in game

yeah, im with the devs on solo though

but maybe they have the wrong reasoning

[hard axle]

[obsidian venture]

This challenge would be tilting in a duo. Getting boosted for it would be more cancer

[hard axle]

im riding the high now

[obsidian venture]

They do

[jovial sentinel]

yeah, the devs lately are just... weird

idk, they are doing really weird stuff constantly

[obsidian venture]

Idm challenges being solo only. But the logic behind it this time didn’t need to be said

[jovial sentinel]

very inconsistant, and listening to very weird niche groups

for their decisionmaking

they really need to do more 'this is how we wanted it, this is how it is'

[obsidian venture]

Weirdly enough, endgame folks still only wanted this entire boss to focus strictly on the duo aspect

[jovial sentinel]

'breif reasoning'

some did, yeah

but those same people need a reason to complain

[obsidian venture]

Which it does only concerning kph

[jovial sentinel]

they'd complain if it werent

[obsidian venture]

At least in the communities I’m in for endgame pvm, it’s pretty unanimous for wanted it to be more duo focused and a tad bit harder

[jovial sentinel]

the loudest people are generally people that are good at being loud, not a majority, and not necessarily people with actual concern

[obsidian venture]

They should apply their logic of a longer p3 to regular yama

[jovial sentinel]

i cant really speak for the fight unfortunately

too caught up in ffxiv patch to have done it

maybe ill throw in some kc tomorrow actually

[obsidian venture]

That’s the only remotely engaging part besides a tick perfect judge

[jovial sentinel]

ouch

like, contracts skipping p1 and starting with all mechanics would have been the play

[obsidian venture]

I sent this for like 2-3 days and left after double dc

[jovial sentinel]

then modify it from there

i can think of many ways to make the fight super cool

[obsidian venture]

Only sent 1 solo just to practice p3, and now sending contracts

[jovial sentinel]

how hard are contracts now?

i assume you're near/at bis?

[hard axle]

entirely depends on p3

I learned donofly/facetank and it crippled me

[obsidian venture]

They are way more feasible than on release. You pretty much have to adjust to the p1/p2 quips (slight variations in addition to the “rules” placed), then have to do a longer p3, which is a set + fun pattern

[hard axle]

hard

[small anvil]

Mage campers stay winning?

[hard axle]

yeah unironically

[obsidian venture]

For contracts yes

[hard axle]

mage campers had the best time at contracts

because it was what they were used to

😭

[obsidian venture]

But the actual mage campers for regular ain’t touching contracts

🤐

[hard axle]

I ended up doing like 5 mage p3 solos

and then got p3 down

kirby's tiles help immensely

especially the wave skip for BB

[warm storm]

ngl i just do melee p1p2 and mage p3

[obsidian venture]

Same thing with awakened. I didn’t care to send the regular to learn. I learned the boss mainly in the awakened

[hard axle]

u mean for contracts?

[warm storm]

solos

regular

[hard axle]

yeah

I did that to speed it up

[obsidian venture]

Same

I walked around on p3

Just to get a feel for it

How to adjust to orbs and reset position

[jovial sentinel]

can you explain this more for someone who isnt familiar with the fight 'that' much, other than a brief read

stalling p1-2 for spec timing?

[warm storm]

i tried some chaos p3 melee solo and it was kinda fun but definitely way less dps since i am not good at nofly

[jovial sentinel]

complete guess that is

[obsidian venture]

I think it’d probably be better if you watch a friends vod

[jovial sentinel]

yep, happy to watch

[obsidian venture]

As again p1-p2 are slight variations per contract. For example, one contract drains prayer, and the glyphs correspond to that. Another drains stamina every tick

[jovial sentinel]

that only lasts for p1-2?

let me get the contract itself up

[obsidian venture]

https://youtu.be/dYLTusMrGkY?si=kt4TsotdnCN7VjfB

Lasts throughout the fight

[jovial sentinel]

which contract is this?

[obsidian venture]

But p1-p2 are with glyphs

Divine severance

[jovial sentinel]

thast actually a sick contract

they make it look pretty easy

[obsidian venture]

He hasn’t played actively in months either

Just sent it on the weekend

[pearl patio]

It’s aids

Fight is so long

[jovial sentinel]

oh yeah, 8mins

[obsidian venture]

Post patch it’s better

Have you copped? @pearl patio

[pearl patio]

I have only potted like 10 contract attempts been busy. Did fortified and like 4 divine attempts

Idk p3 is just so long it drags forever

[obsidian venture]

Ah nice

Yeah I’m sending slowly if I feel like logging in

[pearl patio]

sensory seems like the only real hard one and imma do the Joe watermelon method I think

Complicated at first but it’s totally solved if u do it right

[obsidian venture]

Joe watermelon 😭

[pearl patio]

Glue eater approved

[obsidian venture]

I’ll prob leave that last

[pearl patio]

Same

Cause I don’t want to import all the tiles mainly lol

[obsidian venture]

Just waiting for sending times

You don’t need too

[hard axle]

Still think all sigil contracts should be CAs

[pearl patio]

I have low motivation because the white armor looks so ugly

[obsidian venture]

I just took like 30% of kirbys

[hard axle]

Oh shit wait, I need to get back GM LOL

I didn’t do the pizza task yet

[obsidian venture]

Is that solo?

[hard axle]

Don’t think so?

Piss easy

[obsidian venture]

I need to finish yama cas

So would pot

[chrome lantern]

Does pizza count for the contract CA lol

[obsidian venture]

Think I need to +1 some toa cas later…

We shall see

[hard axle]

We got whiteplate with 1 minute thralls

maximum ego

[obsidian venture]

1 min… tf

Tbf you really don’t use many restores anyway

[hard axle]

Was it 1:30 or 1:00 for master tier

[obsidian venture]

Even on glyphic

1:30

[hard axle]

1:30 then

[obsidian venture]

Was about to say

[hard axle]

They’re gonna make whiteplate even easier to get soon

[small anvil]

I have 1 minute thralls, that's surely the only reason I'm bad

[hard axle]

When they buff ward of arceuus to 5 minutes

[obsidian venture]

You think they will?

Or was that mentioned

[hard axle]

I think so

[small anvil]

Ward is 5 mins if you have purging equipped

[pearl patio]

What does ward even do

[hard axle]

Goblin sounded okay with it

[obsidian venture]

Think the only thing I care about now is the botd being removed

[hard axle]

10% less damage from demons

All sources iirc

[pearl patio]

If botd goes with gm im gonna lose my mind

[small anvil]

Oh wait Ward not mark

[hard axle]

Basically what Ely should be

[pearl patio]

Please don’t make me get gm

[obsidian venture]

They mentioned a quest

I’m almost sure

[pearl patio]

Pls make it a level 90 quest midgame content reward

[obsidian venture]

Gm quest probably

[pearl patio]

And not gm

Gm as in gm cas btw

[hard axle]

I want to say something ultra toxic but it’ll get me times out

[pearl patio]

Idc about quest difficulty lol

[obsidian venture]

Yeye

[hard axle]

is a certain screenshot

[obsidian venture]

Whar

[pearl patio]

The idea of doing toa makes me physically ill

Also the idea of having to upkeep gm forever is horrible

[hard axle]

Don’t be a bitch

[plucky umbra]

Jagex doesn't make any hard CAs so upkeep isn't bad

lose GM for a few hours max

[pearl patio]

Ya ik it’s not hard but it’s tedious

Like oh boy time to go pot royal titans!

[hard axle]

Waiting for all 8 contracts to be CAs

Dude

That would be atrocious

-50m each time

[plucky umbra]

Radplate should have been a req for GM

[obsidian venture]

Never been GM due to laziness

I still haven’t killed scurrius

[hard axle]

Yeah it’s not super hard

[pearl patio]

I did 1 scurrious kc for masters

For the memes

[minor whale]

I play game to have fun and some of those cas are the most boring unfun content imaginable

[hard axle]

I firmly believe GM is more of a knowledge barrier than skill barrier

[pearl patio]

Ya that’s my perspective too

[hard axle]

there’s a reason why I can redo basically any CA after one completion

It’s knowledge that stays with you

20+ perfect tobs

[obsidian venture]

Def not too much of a skill barrier but can’t comment further

[pearl patio]

Which is why it’s nice rn that there’s no must have gm rewards cause it doesn’t affect my gameplay

[obsidian venture]

Unironically I’ve sent perf tobs and other CAs repeatedly

[pearl patio]

If they made book of the dead not required as a gm reward though I’d basically have to get it

[obsidian venture]

Should focus on myself 🤣

[pearl patio]

Or I lose an inv space

Ptob is free

[hard axle]

Make GM reward no prayer drain for thralls

simple as that

[obsidian venture]

O

[hard axle]

or let you shove a book into ammo slot

[obsidian venture]

Prayer is barely an issue but would be insane qol yeah

[hard axle]

Yep

GMs are most of the people respawning thralls early anyway

For positioning

[thick beacon]

i hope they change their mind on this

[pearl patio]

I doubt it tbh

But they should. There’s no reason it shouldn’t be

[hard axle]

whiteplate only took me like 20-30 hours from scratch

[thick beacon]

one thing i liked about gm is having to learn everything to a base lvl now they are skipping their own challanges

[pearl patio]

They should’ve waited to release CAs imo. When blorva came out everyone was like “this shit is too hard to be a CA” but then after a month everyone had it

[thick beacon]

just needed to wait 2-3days after the changes

[hard axle]

I mean, they still refuse to add blorva and purifying sigil to clog because “it’s too hard for the average joe”

[pearl patio]

Although we shouldn’t wait 9 months for cas like they did for dt2

[obsidian venture]

That was egregious

[hard axle]

Blorva before CAs was great tbh

9 months is fine

[obsidian venture]

It’s funny too because a decent amount of gms cannot raid properly

[hard axle]

Stop rushing them

[small anvil]

they should just release the easier ones quickly

and add the master or GM ones a bit later

[obsidian venture]

And by proper I mean just basic gameplay down pat

[pearl patio]

I mean all the gm raid times are glue eater times

You can just leech cox times they’re so easy

[small anvil]

like i think they just want to cash in on the hype

[pearl patio]

Being a gm means nothing about ur ability to raid

[small anvil]

which is why the CA comes out quickly

[obsidian venture]

Which I dislike about that tbh

[small anvil]

but they could have the baseline CAs come out early

[pearl patio]

Do u think ppl actually get hyped for CAs?

I feel like most people think of them as a chore

[hard axle]

The infamous nex nex 1500 attempts for 5/6 jads b2b

[small anvil]

and set GM ones or time ones after

the GMs all rush to do them

so it gets the perception of people doing the content

[narrow folio]

Theres raid speedruns and kc so unless they paid for boosts I would expect pretty food competency

[obsidian venture]

Gms do it for the thralls for for tasks

[small anvil]

feeds into people talking about the content

[narrow folio]

Not like super sweaty speedruns but just completing with no deaths type

[pearl patio]

The speedruns are completely free now though. They’ve been gear creeped a ton

You can just leech cox times they’re so easy

[plush gull]

bruh no matter what camera angle i do, i cant see every void flare spawn from every mark

[obsidian venture]

Wtf is a sweaty speed run? You running on a treadmill or something?

[pearl patio]

I could afk in a room with 4 decent raiders and get gm 5s time

[plush gull]

this boss is awful

[hard axle]

CAs are excellent content when the CAs are actually hard as shit

like truly hard

On release first to GM was great, but people previously potting a lot of content and having preexisting KC gave an unfair advantage

[minor whale]

I think every single item in the game should be on clog

If it's obtainable it goes on clog

[pearl patio]

What’s the mega rare helm

[small anvil]

lets not have random quest items

[pearl patio]

That the dropped with Varlamore or something

[obsidian venture]

Moon piece

[small anvil]

polluting the clog

[obsidian venture]

Or something

[chrome lantern]

I just can't see myself ever caring about doing speedruns, even if the speedrun times are easy. If I don't get it doing normal play I probably won't ever go for them

[hard axle]

I’d daresay even limited time items should be a separate section

[pearl patio]

Ya put that shit on clog

I wanna see bazi cry

[obsidian venture]

They’re pretty much money times

[minor whale]

It's really dumb that it's not on clog just because it's "hard" or "rare", like it's a log for what you collected
Everything collectable should be on it

[chrome lantern]

Sure, if I were good at raiding :)

[small anvil]

clan chat would be a mess if they announced every new quest item someone touched

on new quest release

[minor whale]

It was never meant to be 100%ed

[hard axle]

@chrome lantern legit say when we can get the GM time

[narrow folio]

Normal tob times are not money times lol, maybe cox ones if your teams max gear

[hard axle]

Money now

[obsidian venture]

They are wws

[hard axle]

Don’t die and you get it

[narrow folio]

And the toa one is kind of hard

For the HLC sure

[pearl patio]

Money tob 4s are like 13:30. that’s a minute and a half faster than gm

[chrome lantern]

I wouldn't say no if that were a real offer lol but I'm pretty rusty at ToB

[obsidian venture]

You’d have to play with your tongue to not get the times

[hard axle]

toa is like 16 minutes with strangers

[narrow folio]

Point is that GMs probably are decent at raids

[small anvil]

lol the "HLC" boogeyman

[chrome lantern]

I think my ToB PB is Master time

[obsidian venture]

They are not mate

[chrome lantern]

(Not a scyther)

[pearl patio]

What’s gm 3s tob time @obsidian venture

[hard axle]

Believe me, they are not

[obsidian venture]

1730

[pearl patio]

Isn’t it like 17 mins or something egregious

LMFAOO

[narrow folio]

You have cracked standards because of the circles you're in

[pearl patio]

that’s a horrible money

Like glue eater raid

[hard axle]

I'm painfully average

[narrow folio]

Average for the top .1%

[small anvil]

money times tend to be fast cuz time is money

🙃

[chrome lantern]

It's all about reps and I've only put in like 210 reps

[pearl patio]

Ya they’re fast but the point is they aren’t reset times. They’re consistent

You’re not just resetting for rng or something

[obsidian venture]

The standard is basic gameplay regardless of gear. I can get learners gm times without pushing too much

[small anvil]

yeah i get it

[narrow folio]

For example insulting the 17 minutes is a really case in point

[small anvil]

i just wanted to say time is money for fun

[obsidian venture]

Do not speak out of your ass please

[pearl patio]

You can get a 15:30 3 man tob time basically every raid

Which is 2 minutes faster than gm

[narrow folio]

This is just wrong

[small anvil]

a competent team can consistently clear that time in profit strategies is what is being said

[obsidian venture]

Well that’s near max but ye

[pearl patio]

If u pot with good people ya

Doesn’t require anything special

[narrow folio]

Good to you is not the same as good to me tbh

[obsidian venture]

I’ve potted in Wdr with randoms and have gotten them the time

[small anvil]

does it require maze skip stuff

[obsidian venture]

No

[small anvil]

lol

[obsidian venture]

It literally requires clicking boss

And being potted

[chrome lantern]

This is me lol

[obsidian venture]

You don’t need to hit max eff thresholds to cop time

[warm storm]

and good specs

[obsidian venture]

Not even

[warm storm]

aka knowing how to spec

[tacit wharf]

guess you bad then according to bane

[obsidian venture]

Sure if you mean in order

[chrome lantern]

I am

[hard axle]

I am bad too

[narrow folio]

You can have your standards but I think its really overblown how insanely good you need to be to be considered "alright" at a raid

[thick beacon]

lot of times for tob are just having good teammates

[hard axle]

you should see how many mistakes I did for <930 trio cox

[narrow folio]

According to the discussioners here

[small anvil]

i dont think etube disagrees particularly? he said he was not great at that content, hadnt put in the reps

[chrome lantern]

I was also right I have 209 kc and no hardmode

So not much

[thick beacon]

i have this 5s time 30 seconds off nearly from gm on the iron cuz friends carried

[obsidian venture]

He’s not bad, he just hasn’t tried and or doesn’t have the team to support

[hard axle]

"bad" is honestly a mental state

[obsidian venture]

And that’s ok

[small anvil]

a team of 5 etubes would crush that time

💪

[narrow folio]

I've had good teams in my opinion and 17 trio is really really fast lmao

[chrome lantern]

After Avernic I've done like less than a raid a month probably lol

At tob

I would say I'm rusty at best

[obsidian venture]

Yeah I’m not saying you NEED to get these times. I’m saying from experience over the years, and from doing learners, it doesn’t take much to actually get the gm time. By learners I’m speaking from scratch

[chrome lantern]

I also don't even have a scythe which is a huge DPS

[obsidian venture]

There’s just basic room procedure, without having max gear, without sbsing, and without doing fancy tech, that you can cop the time

[hard axle]

this is why i dont think ur bad

cuz this makes a huge diff

[thick beacon]

it does

[narrow folio]

Then again the point about gear is true I havent had a lot of teams where everyones scything usually

[chrome lantern]

If I went out at learned like how to properly run nylo waves for example though that alone would push up my contribution to faster raids a lot

[pearl patio]

I mean tobs been out what 7 years now?

[obsidian venture]

Nylos waves are probably the last thing anyone truly learns

And people still don’t

It’s moreso being potted to 118 stats

Just doing that can cop you gm time I promise

No megas*

Or at least near gm time

[pearl patio]

Speccing right, staying potted, clicking crabs and not afking sote maze for 30 minutes

[chrome lantern]

Fast maze is fun

[pearl patio]

The funny thing is that the more efficient tob methods and stuff u learn the easier the raid becomes

Like if you learn p2 and p3 boaks Verzik becomes completely trivial

[warm storm]

learning how to do the raid makes the raid easier yes

[plush gull]

i hate this boss so much, are they making death charger scroll tradeable soon?

[obsidian venture]

People skip this step

[pearl patio]

People assume efficient raid = sweating but it’s the opposite is my point

Efficient raid = chiller because you have no chance of dying

[chrome lantern]

I do think there's a huge thing to be said that it's way easier to learn the raid right first than to learn poorly and scrape by

[pearl patio]

Except for Bloat

[chrome lantern]

I wish I did more better strats off the bat

Bad habits tend to be bad

[thick beacon]

its kinda hard if ur team doesint do them

[chrome lantern]

Well yeah but that's more of the same issue just widespread

[thick beacon]

on wdr esp ppl dont wana stack and stuff half the time

efficent channel might be really good since they added that recently

[narrow folio]

Easier to send the common strats than save 10 seconds off a maiden

Since finding the team will just obliterate any possible timesave when pugging like that

[thick beacon]

boak is another one

kinda have to find like minded ppl to practice which will happen natrually if u care about imporving

[pearl patio]

The eff 3s channel is actually very nice

Or I guess it’s just eff but everyone runs 3s

I don’t know if I’ve ever seen another scale lol

[thick beacon]

ye i hope they give it a guarnteed at like 50kc or something

not having that on main still is

[warm storm]

dc scroll is guaranteed at 100

[plush gull]

100+dossier

[obsidian venture]

Eff chillers means I’m dying at least 3 times

[warm storm]

you just have to keep a dossier banked until then

[thick beacon]

is it? i swear i had friend go 215 kc for his

[hard axle]

cuz its dossier tied

get the dossier, bank it

open at 100 kc

[rain fulcrum]

Was he doing duos and doing piss dmg

[narrow folio]

Going 215 dry for dossier sounds weird

[thick beacon]

idk tbh

[obsidian venture]

The word “chill” literally scales with your experience. Max eff is chill for me and I barely have to think about procedure. Positives are it’s a faster raid than avg and engaging

[hard axle]

depends when he got it

I didnt get a dossier for 200 kc

[pearl patio]

I went 170 dry for double dc but it was before we knew dossier rates

[hard axle]

then i got like 4 in a trip

[warm storm]

random number generator moment

[thick beacon]

well tbh rates were rarer to before

[pearl patio]

That’s why tob is so fun. Even doing more advanced methods it’s rythmic and just becomes muscle memory. Vs toas you have to pay max attention

[obsidian venture]

Tbf in toa 540s I don’t pay much attention either

Just something you kinda learn

Cox is the most brain off for me

[plush gull]

this boss is driving me insane and it takes 10 minutes to heal my stats at ferox and regear and it doesnt even heal spec

[obsidian venture]

But tob is fun for me due to how much you can optimize it

[plush gull]

and the scrolls are 60k

have to suicide to yama just to heal spec i guess

[tacit wharf]

my guy, general chat

[warm storm]

tbf yama is still recent and most of this conversation is offtopic

the real question is why don't you have da4 or a poh pool 👀

[plush gull]

there was literally updates to yama today

its gonna be months before mods tell me to stop talking about yama here

[plush gull]

no the real question is why doesnt yama heal spec like colo

[tacit wharf]

cuz its not colo

[narrow folio]

Seems like you play the game a fair amount. Just get a good poh?

[tacit wharf]

because training con would take time away from doing colo and complaining about doing yama with no purging staff

[narrow folio]

What do void flares have to do with stepping away?

You have plenty of time to react to a range or mage

[pearl patio]

If he melees u p3 he spawns a flare

[narrow folio]

Oh p3? Learn one of those cycles then

[pearl patio]

!sanifly

[narrow folio]

I think the context was about a normal kill and didnt seem p3 specific, huh

He said p2 void flares

Yeah this isnt a p3 problem idk whats goin on there

[pearl patio]

I have 0 clue what they’re talking about then

[gaunt kestrel]

claimed the from port

more than the gnome could ever claim

[hasty shard]

the context was glyphic contract i thought

[pearl patio]

Gnomefly

[hasty shard]

anyways :)!!

how tf is ruby bolting that fast what 😭

[pearl patio]

damn 7 minutes with the glue eater method?

U melee p1/p2?

[hasty shard]

nope

[gaunt kestrel]

1/10 go brrr

[hasty shard]

glue eating methods are

my woke vard kc is prime glue eating content

[narrow folio]

He was going on about trying to get the dc upgrade so didnt seem like a contract to me

[pearl patio]

Damn imma have to pot glue Yama before they nerf

[hasty shard]

they brought up rubies I should have considered its ren doing ren things

[narrow folio]

Glyphic attenuation? Need to get that done soon them im panicking

[pearl patio]

abuse early abuse often

[heavy knoll]

any chance we could see more functionality for boss jars in the future? They’re incredibly rare but don’t do much right now. Would love to see them used for more than just POH flexing!

Would Jagex consider giving boss jars more functionality due to their rarity?

[pearl tangle]

So question, did they add a few tick delay to the surge pots and say nothing about it lmao?

[plucky umbra]

gz, hope Jagex makes you redo it with melee though

[plush gull]

lmao people are luring black demons to the boss npc so people can get double killed if they afk 💀

[plucky umbra]

it's in the patch notes from last week

[pearl tangle]

Oh I thought it was this week my b

[tacit pendant]

Explain

[hasty shard]

heads just forgot to come in at 25%

[warm storm]

do you have any ideas?

[hasty shard]

[tacit wharf]

arent these solely for clog items and thats why they were added

[heavy knoll]

In Viking lore, the statue mounted on the front of a ship—known as a figurehead—was believed to offer protection and embody the spirit of the vessel. Integrating boss jars into this tradition could give them new life as ship-bound relics in Sailing, turning rare drops into meaningful figureheads that carry the essence of the bosses they represent. This would not only honor their rarity but also deepen immersion, connecting a player’s journey across the sea with the foes they’ve defeated on land.

[warm storm]

ok you're kinda cooking i'm in

[tacit wharf]

im intrigued

maybe even just unlocking specific sail designs by showing them to a ship hand

like heraldic shields from that falador guy

[chrome lantern]

I’d be fine with putting more cosmetic locations for them sure but definitely no actual uses

[tacit wharf]

big old hydra head on someones sail sailing toward u in the pvp area

[jovial sentinel]

it'd be super nice to have a pretty strong variety of designs

the only problem with unlocked designs is that you'd tend to see a lot of people just using the hardest to unlock one

[chrome lantern]

Idk I switch up my jars every bit of time

[tacit wharf]

while true, i dont see it as a bad though

[jovial sentinel]

yeah, its not necessarily a bad thing

and you can combat it easily by just having a bunch unlock with the same 'achievement'

[warm storm]

i don't really think that is a problem any more than people walking around with their hardest-to-acquire pet is

[jovial sentinel]

guilded unlock potentially.

oh for sure, its just cooler when theres variety of design

makes you feel more unique/special

[tacit wharf]

and not sure how hard it'd be to take their 3D display and make it 2D and place on a sail

[jovial sentinel]

probably not hard

[true talon]

my duo has now done 91-99 str and 91-98 attack at yama

[obsidian ember]

how do iget access to the voiuce chats?

.voice*

[tacit wharf]

have to click one of the things in id:customize i think

[obsidian ember]

thank you

[south moon]

When using mage/range setup at demonic gorillas and you have a melee thrall out: Attacking with range (praying mage), melee thrall forces gorilla to swap to melee prayer. If you then switch to mage to attack the demonic gorilla you will splash indefinitely. no idea where the bug report channel is but yeah

[chrome lantern]

I feel bad for you if you're maging gorillas

[tacit wharf]

thralling demonic's is a thing?

[chrome lantern]

Thralls are very good there

[warm storm]

thralling everything is a thing B)

[tacit wharf]

feel u already do so much dmg, that it'd be a waste of prayer

[warm storm]

no such thing as too much dps

[chrome lantern]

Can still get like a100 kill trip I don't see why not

Very high uptime on thrall

[tacit wharf]

i guess if u got sgs maybe

or u got them 2 min thralls

[south moon]

purging staff with dark demonbane and mask of darkness slaps hard af

[tacit wharf]

oh for sure but $$$$

[chrome lantern]

In my dps calcs it was like, .1 dps above atlatl for like 50x the cost/hr

[south moon]

its just soul runes and fire runes

[chrome lantern]

And that's not even considering good weapons

Like scorching and tbow

Emberlight is insane

[tacit wharf]

personally just sit with those chill 3 way switches

ember and scorching just do work

[hard axle]

all the demonbane shit are so cracked

I wish dragonbane scaled nearly as hard as demonbane

and hope dragons/dragonbane have a similar year to demon/demonbane

[nocturne solstice]

They did mention buffing the dragon wand for olm in the summer sweep I think 🤔

having it come from a mid level boss and being mid level gear does feel like a bit of a mistake though

Its a shame dragonbane weapons seem to come from all over the place unlike demonbane

[jovial sentinel]

its not like the wand was particularly useful where it is, and the strength it is atm though

its basically not used at all

its at the similar point of progression to twinflame, which is kind of a bigger deal

[true talon]

Wont save it, because it uses normal spellbook

It might be better than trident but you will have to 2-0 with it because of its range dont work with 8-1 or 12-0 shadow running

[jovial sentinel]

it does kind of need to beat thralls, yeah

[true talon]

But if olm has a earth weakness, twinflame might actually work well

it would still be a 2-0 but youd have two hits instead of 1 to turn the head

[jovial sentinel]

yeah, though wand should be beating twinflame

[plucky umbra]

at least for solo olm you almost always want to be on Arceuus spellbook

otherwise the head doesn't turn consistently

[true talon]

Wand an stuff might be decent outside ofsoloing

[hard axle]

not just dragon wand, dragonbane in general

[jovial sentinel]

its crazy just how big the difference is, too.

[hard axle]

we've only got 1 dragon boss in....

5+ years

and that was because people asked

not because it was intended

[narrow folio]

I can't see twinflame ever competing with a trident at olm

[nocturne solstice]

Really? interesting. Coulda sworn it was just the wand.

[hard axle]

it can

[nocturne solstice]

Huge if its dragonbane in general though

[hard axle]

no no, i meant dragonbane in general

should get more uses

[warm storm]

the new wand will likely beat trident if the changes go through

[nocturne solstice]

oooh

[hard axle]

idk about summer sweep up

[nocturne solstice]

yes that would be nice

[narrow folio]

If you ramp up the weakness super high but the weakness isn't very high on top of losing thralls and ovl scaling

[nocturne solstice]

This is the summer sweep stuff for the wand

[narrow folio]

Wand might be comparable

Twinflame, no

[jovial sentinel]

only reason twinflame would be is because strat allows.

what was the weakness they suggested?

[narrow folio]

Also needing to bring an extra tome swap tho maybe you already ward

60 I think?

[jovial sentinel]

thats rags, not bis and with heart. without heart is actually kind of close already.

[rain fulcrum]

r u talking about olm?

why would u heart at olm

[jovial sentinel]

idek im half asleep

i just clicked it out of habit

[rain fulcrum]

olm gonna be a little biased towards staves coz of overl

[jovial sentinel]

its kind of why the boost would need to be big if thats the intended use

but its proposed extra dragonbane effect and earth weakness.

those together means its a calc worth doing when we have those stats

problem is though, you need to slap on thrall damage as well

[hasty shard]

i think their elemental balance is just 25% off globally

[true talon]

you didnt factor in elemental weakness

[jovial sentinel]

i didnt intend to show it there, obviously

[true talon]

Also factor in that you will need wrath runes to use dragon hunter wand XD

[jovial sentinel]

correct

[true talon]

unless the dps is just astronimically better

it will not be feasible to use

[jovial sentinel]

it wasnt a 'this is exactly how it is' picture

theres some math you need to do yourself atm

but yeah, i kind of agree.

its a big difference

[true talon]

Wand fails because its tied to normal spellbook

make it a dragonbane trident an it will fucking slap

[jovial sentinel]

like, 1.5 needs to be made up assuming no wraths, and thats without considering thralls

[warm storm]

if it's better enough it'll be worth using even if you lose thralls

[jovial sentinel]

yeah, but it then needs to go from 4dps to over 6.

[true talon]

wont be due to cost of wrath runes an earth pages

[jovial sentinel]

actually wait, heres one with ovls

[warm storm]

tangle and fire are nice to have for mutts and ice respectively so standards aren't exactly dead at cox

[jovial sentinel]

like, the difference is massive.

[warm storm]

increased dmg%, accuracy%, and ele weakness is massive too

we'll see :)

[jovial sentinel]

it is, but i doubt we're getting almost 2x damage from them

wraths might win out, if you can sustain them

[warm storm]

scar essence mine my goat

[jovial sentinel]

but you're also dealing with the attack speed

[warm storm]

same as shadow

(but you can't drag hit so ya the cycle would be weird to dodge damage solo)

[jovial sentinel]

if the damage is enough, people will find a way

its just so hard to see it being that big

[warm storm]

https://tenor.com/view/jeff-goldblum-jeff-goldblum-life-finds-a-way-gif-8405245

[jovial sentinel]

theres only so much more accuracy you can get, so its mostly going to be damage

[hard axle]

slap on a 50% ele weakness is huge

50% is pretty standard

[jovial sentinel]

and that still wouldnt be enough. it makes it really close to wraths

but thats just way more expensive and not really feasile for 'enough'

[plush gull]

change dhw back to 3t dueling wand and shelve eye of ayak

[jaunty osprey]

For full transparency, we were hoping to make this a 30-minute timer, but we hit a little snag along the way. We wanted to get the timer out to you asap, rather than holding it back until we had the extra 5 minutes, but we will continue to work on the issues we came across and hopefully get you the full 30 when we can.
I am curious what technological speedbump they've hit. How can the server keep and idle connection for 25 minutes but not 30 🤔

[jovial sentinel]

Cant be sure. Could be a million things they've slapped on thats created some sort of conflict, and then built upon so that they arnt easy to change/discover

[craggy wind]

May be some kind of timer that runs something else in 30 minute intervals or something that conflicts with that

[jaunty osprey]

Ya I was thinking Apache2's KeepAlive configuration or some similar config... other timers could interfere too

[ember token]

damn sweep-up part 2 alraedy?

[analog crow]

Au contraire, Goblin, you have already made the fix for KQ, it's called Echo KQ. Just put it in the game please 😭

[ember token]

oh wait its an update to the part 1 blog

[analog crow]

Literally turn the worst boss into a great one with a bit flip (half joking)

[winter hearth]

It's just hard to figure out how to properly implement that and have it feel worthwhile, it's something we've spoken about a bunch though

[analog crow]

Very happy to hear it's being discussed behind the scenes! 😃

[slender vapor]

https://i.imgur.com/CAXMJtw.png

[analog crow]

Nice, this confirms 300 as the intended experience innit

[slender vapor]

https://i.imgur.com/XqZmS88.png

[ember token]

Naturally for the Irons among you, alarm bells are ringing. Pushing past Raid Level 300 without a Fang in your hand can be tedious to say the least. To address this, we'd like to add a new jewel for you to attach to your Keris Partisan, turning it into a viable mainhand weapon somewhere between the Zamorakian Hasta and Osmumten's Fang, specifically within the Tombs.

[slender vapor]

Based

They actually took like every single good ounce of feedback

[ember token]

i'm quite impressed yeah

they're even protecting the integrity of bryo/obor hiscores

[winter hearth]

Y'all are sweet!

[remote sphinx]

massive update. curious with butterfly update though...does this mean that in order for akkha to be praying mage it needs to hit you twice (1 per special)?

[slender vapor]

This sweep up has been fantastic in both editions so far

[winter hearth]

Yeah, but obviously you can't really butterfly if he's ranging because bro's still hitting you

[ember token]

Adjust Bryophyta's Growthlings to be left-clickable if you have an axe equipped, rather than requiring you to use the axe on them.

this is pretty much a non-issue but I would say it makes [[quick cutter]] more of a easy tier CA than a medium tier one

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Quick_Cutter

[sudden bane]

Dunno if you fixed it yet but it says fangs will be rarer at higher raid level and conversely shadow will be 'rarer'
That's not conversely that's the same thing

[sage latch]

yeah but fangs will be a lot rarer while shadow only slightly

took me a few reads tho

[remote sphinx]

ahh true forgot bout that bit. still quite a bit punishing imo. especially if learning butterfly. not as big of a deal with other changes but yea

[winged mantle]

W jmods with those adjustments

[analog crow]

This is really getting me excited to get into ToA

[slender vapor]

Just curious, with these changes would you guys ever entertain the idea of locking shadow behind 300s? Since 300 is completely realistically achieveable for most people

[analog crow]

but but the meme value of people getting shadow while doing the miniquest is too good

[slender vapor]

Like, with the toa changes and fixes, people will be grinding it a ton more

[ember token]

yeah i just do 0 invo runs to print shadows

[analog crow]

pnm changes also very nice
would have liked to see the tablet as a guaranteed drop after 1kc honestly, but big improvement

[fossil epoch]

shouldnt that also mean that anyone doing bad to some extend in cox/tob not to be allowed a mega there aswell?

[sage latch]

idk i think 300invo toa is comparable to normal mode cox

[slender vapor]

Not quite the same thing though

[sudden bane]

Goblin can I have confirmation on something related to yesterdays update, if two gims do a pet contract do they both get the boosted rate

[slender vapor]

Toa's floor for entry is exceptionally low difficult compared to tob or cox

[fossil epoch]

idk, was in a raid with an iron with 2 deaths, very low dps and he got tbow around 30kcs in, thats still under a 300 toa tbh

[winter hearth]

Not super convinced that it's 100% necessary. Currently ~78% of Shadows come from 300+ raids, despite 47% of completions being >300 Raid Level, suspect that % might increase with the change in weightins towards the topend

[slender vapor]

Alright was just curious

Pretty much a flawless blog for me then

[sage latch]

top tier proposals all around

[restive siren]

only thing thats missing is not making a mole weak to earth

[fossil epoch]

Now we just need a hint on when some of the p1 things are planned to be released

[ember token]

mole digs through the earth but that doesn't mean they'd be immune to a cave collapsing in on them, just like it doesnt mean they'd be immune to having a magical rock thrown at them

[wooden harbor]

So if 500s are 8% purp chance and 300s are 4% chance
And you can do 3 300s/hr vs 2 500s/hr
I think 300s are just better now?

Feels likea massive nerf to 500s that just sorta removes the need to do 500s

[analog crow]

However I think moles are prone to drowning in their tunnels? So water weakness makes sense.

[winter hearth]

But your odds of hitting a big payday (Shadow) in 300s are way lower than in 500s

580x 300s vs. 216x 500s for a Shadow is a pretty big jump, coupled with more purples in general at the top-end

[wooden harbor]

Oh didnt reqlize each unique gets affected by rarity too
Let me go back and calc

[rare grotto]

goblin can you explain why 400+ took such a big hit for having 40% of purps but nothing significant was done to 300-400 where they have 39% of purps? These changes will just make 300s speeds meta vs pushing invo

[analog crow]

3*4% = 12%
2*8% = 16%

[restive siren]

3x4=12 and 2x8=16 or am i missing something

[sudden bane]

True why can't we drown monsters with water spells

[restive siren]

yeah imo any element but earth makes sense for mole

[ember token]

spell that summons a rag over a monster's face, increases damage they take from water spells by 50%

[winter hearth]

I mean even at 350 it's a noticeable reduction. Data that we had (especially baking stuff in with respect to average completion times) suggested that the volume of purples output at those raid levels was more okay than the volume from 400+, but still warranted tuning down

Also some element of 'we know we're making the raid easier and will likely see the avg. Raid Level for completions shift upwards as a result of the changes' too. Other side-effects are time-save from stuff like not missing ticks if you're no longer Red-Xing Ba-Ba etc.

[brittle dagger]

Actual math should be 1-(1-0.08)^2 = 0.1536 chance of getting the drop and 1-(1-0.04)^3 = 0.115264 chance

[wooden harbor]

I guess yea 500s are barely better but i do think for efficient max gear players this likely means grinding 300s because the benefit from 500s vs the time and effort in a 500 is much higher than the reward

[rare grotto]

I agree that there needs to be tuning down, but i can't imagine if you're an efficient player that you'll push invo instead of just doing zoomy 350/400s or whatever vs the current meta 545

just seems weird to punish being good

and reward being bad so u can stay at easy invos

where chance of completion is way higher

[wooden harbor]

Additionally if the purples from 500+ are indeed 7% with 3% of total completions being 500+
I dont think it needs a nerf at that high raid level

[chrome lantern]

Akkha change good from last proposal, unfortunate that having to do a DPS skip now guarantees he will change style next spec though but better than the earlier proposal

[wooden harbor]

When thoze are actually challenging invos

[restive siren]

as goblin said you are not being punished for being good when your chance for a shadow increases

[wooden harbor]

Its barely an increase tho even withthe numbers goblin provided

[red acorn]

Average Loot per raid at that invo is what matters - rather than purp chance

[winter hearth]

Interestingly the Success rate for 400-499 is higher than the success rate for 150-399

Though largely from people getting comfy at 400s and camping

[wooden harbor]

Considering how fast 300s are in efficient raids

[winter hearth]

400-449 Raid Level is the highest success% bracket there is

[chrome lantern]

All I know is that even with this (good) loot distribution change my least favorite raid is going to be even more annoying as I now go even more raids between disappointments with a longer rate to get the last item I need (chaps)

[rare grotto]

what about succes rate from 300-399, 150-300 is ppl learning the raid imo

[red acorn]

Better get cracking now then!

[chrome lantern]

I mean I would argue anyone below 400 consistent runs is still learning

[winter hearth]

around 55% or so. 400s are about 65%, 450-500 is around 51%, 400-450 is around 65%

[analog crow]

Btw Goblin how are you feeling now? You said before the Yama release into the summer sweep up was a bit rough.

[rare grotto]

interesting data. Could be nice to put it for every bracket somewhere.

[chrome lantern]

I didn’t go to 405 until I was confident in 380, didn’t do 475 until I stopped using emergency brew in 405, etc, one step at a time to 500. Lower invoc is still learning

[rare grotto]

Anyways we'll have to see the numbers but if meta ends up shifting down the best invo (say from 545 to 350/400/450) then it's not a good change

[chrome lantern]

Even at 500 plenty of room to grow/learn tbh

[winter hearth]

Still rough, desperately want some time off - going straight from Yama into Sweep-Up was good, but loot table tweaks are never fun

[slender vapor]

I just hope drop tables aren't going to be barren of resources as a new philosophy to live by

[analog crow]

I see. Hope you can get a nice summer holiday!

[restive siren]

looks like the droprate for shadow goes from 0.53% to 0.46% even though the droprate for any purple gets literally halfed, thats quite a massive buff for shadow rate

[rare grotto]

my only concern about the raid is zebak's hp/def. IMO needs some tuning as even with best setups you're 75% accurate there. Would be nice if it could get looked into

[rare grotto]

can't rly compare drop rates in a vacuum

need to check completion time as well

500s can take quite a bit of time, also it depends on which invos were used (QP 500 vs PF 500)

[chrome lantern]

Halving purple rates seems crazy to do 3 years late but at least the ratios are improving in high invoc, would like to see even higher Masori though personally

[restive siren]

i mean im not comparing between invos, im comparing between now and after changes for that specific invo

just to counter the point that somehow now you are punished for doing harder raids, that doesnt seem to be the case imo

[rare grotto]

how can you not compare invos if u want to figure out what's best

i said punished if it means meta invo ends up shifting down rather than up

[chrome lantern]

tbf with 15 rings on my log now sometimes I would prefer normal loot. This does reduced the rate for purples I do want though and that’s even something they themselves say

[restive siren]

the guy said that the shadow droprate "barely increases", that is just not true as i showed

you are almost as likely to get a shadow as you are currently if you are running 500s which is pretty massive if you consider how much the general purple rates are changed

so i doubt we will see the meta shift down

[rare grotto]

@pallid gorge could you tell us what the proposed/old purp chances will be at 550

graph is missing that bit

[winter hearth]

I don't think it will shift down

For reference:

Avg. time per purple is still far and away 400 or 500 favoured, but 500s see considerably more shadows - it's still worth running 500s if you're capable, because they'll still be the best moneymaker

[slender vapor]

Seems like a clean solution to me

[wooden harbor]

Do each unique's weighting shift with raid level?

[meager flame]

i think its an improvement for sure

im kinda curious about the fixation with fang/lb though

avernic/dex are similarly extremely common and at least for dex

probably the biggest upgrade in the game

[winter hearth]

They are far too good to be as cheap as they are and kinda warp progression

Dex is also probably too cheap these days

[meager flame]

yeah its just that while i agree they're too common it happened 3 times in a row too so it seems kind of intentional that one of the better upgrades in each raid is also the most common

[wooden harbor]

I think only issue people are having with fangs being rarer is that they are kind of crucial for higher raid levels at toa which makes it so much worse for irons 😄

[urban surge]

Surely to fix KQ the easiest way is to make her not 100% accurate or the attack damage calculated on hit so you can change prayer for it or something? I don't know if something like that is easy to implement or not
I know it's not being worked on for this update but maybe something for the future

[civic ginkgo]

That's why they are adding a new gem and making gems more common

Well proposing to

[meager flame]

idk where we even want the prices to actually be though

like if it were me i'd think like 80-100m but

that seems kinda far away

[wooden harbor]

Hmm will have to see what the weapon is like

[remote sphinx]

honestly kinda wish you guys didnt cave and made scrolls more common ages ago

hindsight is a bitch tho

[urban surge]

You could make it so if you get a gem from ToA, you can trade it with an npc for a different gem. This could help with dry protection for yellow gem

[meager flame]

i mean its good that those drops exist i think

im sure the intent is that getting something cool feels

achievable to newer people to raiding

its just that by being the most common they also get nuked eventually value wise

honestly

kinda seems like a ge sink fix more than anything

seems like you might have to cheat a little bit to make them sit where you want long term

and thats what the ge sink is

[slender vapor]

Surely CM cox will see similar adjustments

[meager flame]

i think they're gonna run into some different kind of issues when its time for cox

right now if you just do a standard raid so no scaling or anything either cm or reg

you can make an argument for why you'd want either of the two

if they reduce scrolls for cms

that whole idea dies that day

and you're just wrong if you aren't in cms

idk what they really think of that in general

i low key kind of want a cm rework where its not just the same raid but longer

[dire mango]

Thoughts on slapping the proposed new keris jewel buff onto the blue gem as a ToA-only buff instead of making a new separate jewel?

[meager flame]

but im scared it would actually get worse lol

[vivid ruin]

Theyre adding a new gem? I only seen that theyre going to make gems more common

[civic ginkgo]

Nah, new gem as well, in-between fang and hasta

[vivid ruin]

You mind copy/pasting that part here?

[civic ginkgo]

Naturally for the Irons among you, alarm bells are ringing. Pushing past Raid Level 300 without a Fang in your hand can be tedious to say the least. To address this, we'd like to add a new jewel for you to attach to your Keris Partisan, turning it into a viable mainhand weapon somewhere between the Zamorakian Hasta and Osmumten's Fang, specifically within the Tombs

i dont know how to do it the other way, apologies

[vivid ruin]

Thats cool. No yeah i think they should just add to blue, i agree

[civic ginkgo]

yeah, i know it will kinda balnce out with them being more common, but adding a gem kinda just makes that change less effective

[vivid ruin]

Yeah more drops to pool doesnt help

[bronze kernel]

It will take up a slot whenever you roll a gem I would assume

If you roll a gem, it will have one more possible roll

[vivid ruin]

They could also add it to red because i find that one most useless

[final frigate]

what's the reasoning behind higher invos getting a bigger % reduction in purps? when the data in the blog shows majority of purples (and thus shadows) come from low invos

[civic ginkgo]

From what I've seen, they want it so shadows will pop up more in higher invos

[final frigate]

a flat % across raid levels would still affect higher invos more, but this is doubling down on it and i'm not sure why

[winter hearth]

How'd you draw that conclusion?

[final frigate]

based on this

[nocturne solstice]

Thats the one gem that can be used outside of ToA so that's a no from me cause then it's like... this weird almost BiS stab weapon almost everywhere? It'll be a baby fang.

[vivid ruin]

Percentage wise, you have more than 2x purps coming from 500+

[final frigate]

in terms of purple chance yes, but also if purples flooding into the game is an issue, 500+ is a tiny tiny portion

[winter hearth]

78% of uniques come from Raid Levels beyond 300, despite it being about half of all completions. Analytics feel the healthiest approach here is to taper off 300+ slightly because it's too generous, and still make sure that pushing Raid Level is worthwhile - which it categorically still is

[wooden harbor]

@winter hearth
Regarding the akkha change the blog mentions that akkha will only swap on a special if he has attacked you with a regular attack.

Does a regular attack in this case also include special?

Because the way it currently works is, and im sure you already know this, just a reminder 😄, akkha does a special every 60 seconds if he hasnt hit you at all. On the first special, akkha can not swap styles if he hasnt attacked you before. But on the 2nd special he has a 1/3 chance to swap because the first special counts as an attack event.

Does this mean in the new proposed akkha, he will guaranteed swap on the 2nd special and consequently even if you didnt get autoed?

[dire mango]

The buff would only apply within ToA as with the proposed gem. While the kalphite specific buff would work as it does now anywhere.

[vivid ruin]

Maybe red then? That one is almost extremely useless

[winter hearth]

No, this means that if Akkha melees you on your first butterfly, he'll swap when he next specs - if you butterfly perfectly off the rip, then you're chilling to butterfly the whole kill

[wooden harbor]

Awesome thank you

[fossil epoch]

@winter hearth Can we expect to see some of the P1 summer sweep stuff before varla p3?

[nocturne solstice]

It seems weird and a bit janky so I'm not a fan of it. Too many different buffs and also X doesnt work outside ToA while Y does work feels like it'll be unnecessarily confusing.

[winter hearth]

Timelines aren't at all clear at the moment so I wouldn't feel comfortable committing to anything!

[fossil epoch]

all good

[nocturne solstice]

Dont people use red at higher invo teams since its a significant dmg boost?

[vivid ruin]

Lowkey I wouldnt know 😭

[final frigate]

1 i don't think it's fair to have a "beyond 300" categorisation given how vastly different in terms of difficulty and accessibility 300-400s and 500+s are, and 2 if for example all 300+s got a 30% reduction on purps it would still nerf the higher invos more due to higher base purp chance, so i'm curious why it was specifically made that the purp nerf is basically exponential with raid level instead of flat

also while you're here, slight tangent, any hopes of nerfing zebak's (magic) defenses? he's pretty much the epitome of toa slog, even worse than post proposal "pray and afk" baba

[dire mango]

That's how most of the toa uniques have their passives though. Fang for example has a unique passive within toa and another unique passive outside. Shadow as well.

The idea is mostly that the blue keris is already the "main hand"-keris. So it fits that it becomes a better main hand within ToA instead of adding another gem where you potentially end up bringing 3 different keris' into ToA as an iron before you have fang.

[civic ginkgo]

To be fair, if they add the deposit box in, you can get rid of them as needed

Just a thought

[slender vapor]

300 seems to be the difficulty where jagex balanced the raid around, 400s and 500s are more player driven than jagex driven. That would be why they didn't gut 300s

[final frigate]

their data is also heavily skewed by 450 mogs and 500 kit runs but that's besides the point

i suppose

seeing their average clear time data

those are not human numbers

[nocturne solstice]

The fang is just a buffed version of the same passive, same with shadow.

This new weapon would (I assume) be, buff to stats (only toa), Kalphite passive, Double accuracy roll (toa only), Spec? (toa only). So it's a lot of different things.

I do get where you're coming from though... maybe I just think it's jank because I'm assuming it'll be a baby fang when it could just be at the same power but not a fang.

[novel roost]

Will you guys be looking into changing the pvm side of moon chest keys to be more common? My iron needs the lunar helm

[winter hearth]

I think there's some lunar key stuff in part two

[civic ginkgo]

Ask and ye shall receive

[tender harness]

Please do not give dragon hunter wand the ability to use ancients. You're effectively getting ancient scepter for zero reason with this. @winter hearth any chance this can be reconsidered? Or can ancient scepter be buffed so its not, being outclassed by an easier to obtain weapon?

[frail bough]

not so sure on easier to obtain tbh

[winter hearth]

Yeah the 450s are an outlier (people learning 500s and missing time), but all of those avg. completion times are solos

[slender vapor]

Magic gear is just in a sorry state to begin with

Eldinis F should be rocking something like 15-20% magic damage

[tender harness]

Huey is miles easier than muspah and both are easy

[slender vapor]

[tender harness]

Dragon hunter wand has zero reason to be 10% for ancients. Scepter isnt even 10%

[velvet orchid]

I really like the TOA changes minus the Torstol seeds ( I’m down bad on iron and toa saved me and now I’m down bad again with spec pots lol)

[noble mural]

Does new "feeling special" invo stop random style changes that currently occur after a special, even if butterflying perfectly?

[velvet orchid]

But my biggest grip with the content is that it’s not friendly to run with learners because you have to lower invo so much it feels troll unlike the other raids where it just takes a little longer but don’t hurt my purple chance

[civic ginkgo]

Just need to pump toa until update

[frail bough]

Yes

#game-update message

[dire mango]

The toa accuracy roll and the non-toa accuracy rolls work different ways. The overall effect is "accurate outside, very accurate inside" though yes. For shadow i agree.

I see your jank-argument, and i agree, but i also think most of these in-raid specific buffs in general are kinda jank, so i don't see why adding another is "out of theme" of sorts.

[ember token]

ancient sceptre does have the buffs to each type of ancient magic though

[velvet orchid]

I’m going to have to , do we have a timeline for this update haha

[frail bough]

and is also untradable drop

[civic ginkgo]

We do not

[tender harness]

So an untradable drop from a boss that's harder should be worse than an item that's easier to get? That makes zero sense
Also the quartz are useless

Im all for buffing Dragon hunter wand but it does not need ancients

[frail bough]

I still fail to see why it working with ancients matters here, both options have their pros

[remote sphinx]

is it just me or does this feel like a nerf? because currently its rng whether it changes on messing up. could be 1 hit or 10. odds are it wont change on first hit. but new change it always changes on first hit

[dire mango]

The ancient icon drop from muspah is very common though.

[final frigate]

@winter hearth do you have this but for 540 or 545s too by any chance?

[frail bough]

Quite honestly, the whole ancient magic restriction is dumb as hell to begin with IMO

[remote sphinx]

granted its only after a special but still

[tender harness]

Because it gives an option that's objectively better much earlier for what?

[reef shale]

I respect most of the stuff in the blog but I still dont think they should increase drop rate of wand, if its gonna be as good as they pitched it should be hard to get

[tender harness]

Also when are cox buffs? ToA taking like 3.5 hours for a purple solo vs almost 8 in cox is

[wooden harbor]

Read the new blog
Infinite butterfly is in now if you are perfect with it
Almost like day 1 butterfly pre-nerf

[civic ginkgo]

Probably next summer

[winter hearth]

Slightly, but if you're rolling perfect then it makes no difference - it's a little more 'punishing' if you screw up but at least it's predictable and you know ahead of time that he'll 100% switch

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah but functionally it's just as you said, accurate outside and more accurate inside. With the blue + new gem effect proposal it would just straight up be half the passives not working.

But again, this is just from me assuming it's functions will be similar to a fang. They might just crank up it's accuracy and damage in toa or something and thats it in which case I'd be fine with it being on the blue gem. Honestly now that I think about it I just need a lot more info about what it'll actually be like for me to support or veto the idea 🤔

[winter hearth]

I don't have them on-hand, timing isn't ideal because some devs are OOO today but I'll make a note

[final frigate]

tyvm

please consider nerfing zebak my goat

unfortunately i need to mention it at every chance

had 1 too many 5:30+ zebaks despite perfect play

[civic ginkgo]

Can we look into zebak get 2x more defence and hp? Just because I'm petty

\s

[dire mango]

Is it possible to release the new drop rate formula+weighting formuals so we can play with them ourselves?

[winter hearth]

Don't have full formulae atm, only target %s, will see if we can get a calc on the Wiki once we do have something more concrete in place - there's still a chance for us to make tweaks too following feedback, though the approach presented is the best-supported put forwards by analytics folks

[tender harness]

If dragon hunter wand is supposed to be so good per the proposal. This is imo
Please leave the drop rate alone. Making this much stronger and be more common.
Personally I would rather see ancient scepter get buffed, or even something that allows to combine Kodai + wand. This removes ancient scepter from that being made irrelevant early and also just offers an additional sink for Kodai. And maybe keep ancients on it only after sinking kodai? But I dont believe it should have ancients in its current form imo.

[true talon]

400 - 449: 12% of total completions, 25% of total uniques.
450 - 499: 4% of total completions, ~7% of total uniques.
500+: 3% of total completions, ~7% of total uniques.

shocker it wasnt the billybobs doing 150s printing uniques XD

[sacred oracle]

I'm not sure I understand why dragonhunter wand needs to be more common

[wooden harbor]

60% of total uniques come from under 400 tho so theres that lol

[true talon]

19% of the completes are bringing in 39% of the uniques lol

[sacred oracle]

If anything, its problem is that it's useless and cheap.

[reef shale]

Please leave the Dragon hunter wand drop rate alone, if we're making it so much stronger we should keep it as rare as possible.

[sacred oracle]

I feel like I'm missing something.

[tender harness]

More common + makes scepter irrelevant. Missing something

[dire mango]

so the majority is currently coming from "billybobs" doing <400s yes?

[sacred oracle]

Are there currently complaints about wand being too hard to get? I've never seen anyone say a word about that. Is this an iron thing?

[tender harness]

I dont even think irons use the wand

[true talon]

No people argued that it was people doing 150-200 raids printing uniques, but they are 42% of all raids and yet only bring in 22%

[dire mango]

It is currently not even worth getting so nobody complains because nobody is grinding for it.

[rapid birch]

Disagree, definitive dhw 10%. It needs some usefulness

[tender harness]

Nope. You're removing ancient scepter and making that irrelevant not an option. For something that is objectively easier to get than ancient icon

And making stuff later in progression irrelevant because you buffed something on the lower end too much is bad

[true talon]

I mean unless they fix dragon hunter wand to be a proper dragonbane wep not tied to normal spellbook, it will cont to fall flat and might find use to kill a steel dragon.

its dps is calced with wrath runes in mind

[sacred oracle]

I don't really care if dhw casts ancients or not, but the buffs are already giving it usefulness

[rapid birch]

How, it’s passive gives an addrional 10%

[sacred oracle]

So even if it couldn't autocast ancient magicks, it would still be a hefty buff

[rapid birch]

feels like an overreaction, dhw is fine

[rapid birch]

It’s still barely useful

[tender harness]

Found the one person who likes dhw

[frail bough]

I don't think I've ever come across anyone trying to get ancient icon in order to actively progress and is mosly just obtained for inferno overheal in my experience

so I'm not entirely sure why this is bad

[slender vapor]

I had it only because i was trying to saturate a heart

[copper trout]

When @winter hearth

Other Changes

Allow halberds to hit 'flying' enemies like Aviansies.

[sacred oracle]

Why should halberds be able to hit aviansies?

[frail bough]

cause they are long

[civic ginkgo]

They announced it

[ember token]

because jagex said it was a change theyd make at runefest

[winter hearth]

It is largely a passive thing obtained chasing saturate or vbow I feel, but some people do chase it

[sacred oracle]

I know, but I don't understand it

[rapid birch]

I would enjoy dhw still being 1x its rate, but please dont strip the few buffs dhw got lol

[copper trout]

Why should it hit Zulrah.. Oh wait it does

[winter hearth]

No timelines for anything in here at this stage beast

[sacred oracle]

Halberds have an extra tile of attack range, but I don't see how that should translate into hitting flying foes

[frail bough]

certainly it does

[rapid birch]

Appreciate the info goblin! Youve been cranking out the info lately

[ember token]

theyre flying a tile above us of course

[tender harness]

Tie this to 99 strength and you lose 1 point of strength everytime you hit a flying enemy

[frail bough]

just because you cant jump in the game (literally) doesnt mean tiles dont extend vertically

[civic ginkgo]

It's not like the enemies are flying 10 tiles above

[dire mango]

"Long stick hit flying bird"-logic

[sacred oracle]

Just seems weird to me

[frail bough]

Well yeah

its not been this way for literally everyones lives

ofc its weird lol

[copper trout]

Could be nice to introduce some melee to Kree.

[sacred oracle]

Zulrah made sense, it's on the ground next to you

Not really a big deal, though

Not like it's gonna be meta

[copper trout]

We're not throwing spears, hally should and could hit a flying bird my guy.

[hard axle]

Thank you for confirming that it’s solos, not teams, that are bringing in the most purples

I had a feeling that it was the case, but people kept spamming “50% purple a raid onmegalul”

[copper trout]

I did go test it though haha, turns out you actually agro the Aviansies despite not actually being able to hit them.

[winter hearth]

8-mans account for 1.5% of total completions

They're still v good but yeah, tiny fraction

[frail bough]

Gotta remember 8 people per raid, most probably drinking, what are the chances that group stays grinding all day and it isn't usually a 1 or 2 and done

[visual arch]

When are these part 1 sweep up updates expected to go live? Are we getting pnm/nex/toa changes all at once? And soon? Or seperately?

[true talon]

Add a left-click 'Feed' option to Duke Sucellus so that you can use your potions or ingredients passively rather than needing to click repeatedly.
THANK GOD. This was on my wish list the entire time doing duke lol.

[frail bough]

Such a simple change to make it infinitely less annoying

[winter hearth]

'most probably drinking' got me. You're not accounting for a different player jumping for food or a smoke break every other raid too lmao

[frigid folio]

yeah what Sean said. When should we expect these updates and will we be getting a massive update or small things every week? (also when is the slayer tower agility shortcuts coming in. i hate running to banshees 🙂 )

[civic ginkgo]

We should expect the summer sweep up in the summer I reckon

[tender harness]

Now cox buffs when

[tender harness]

Hopefully never this shortcut was beyond stupid

[true talon]

I mean its also true they are a fraction of the total completetions but also bring the highest chance of uniques. its also those at extremely high raid lvls printing most the uniques, not the billybobs from reddit that everyone kept claiming.

[hollow pivot]

@winter hearth We had CoX rework earlier, now ToA. And I love all the changes.

Any chance you can finish off with a look at ToB before raid 4 development starts? So u leave them all in great shape.

Personally thinking too much of the reward lies in pulling a scythe. While Justiciar in particular, but also Sanguini/rapier could be in stronger positions. very cheap raid weps atm. even Kodai is above 100m i think

[deft barn]

Agreed, dex and arcane scrolls should get the fang/lb treatment

[frail bough]

would be dope

[urban surge]

@winter hearth Do you think Imbued Heart will ever get a drop rate review or something?

[tender harness]

Even if you change them. Everyone and their mother has Dex and arcane realistically what are you trying to recover?

[frigid folio]

yeah that is true. at this point the only people who dont have one is newer irons

[winter hearth]

Not something we've ever really spoken about (at least not any conversation I've been involved in)

[true talon]

Heart dont need it, with the addition of arraxytes the heart grind was cut down a lot

[winter hearth]

this too

[slender vapor]

Would we ever get a rebalance on mage pots then?

Currently they all kinda suck

[frail bough]

I just want to know all the changes for slayer updates in part 2 👀

[rapid birch]

Probably hard to do without a complete magic rework

[slender vapor]

Just make it not eat melee stats

[winter hearth]

I think the likes of a divine Forgotten Brew has potential, but base Magic potions probably too delicate to touch

[tender harness]

You'd be better off trimming down some of the purples in chambers, and either shifting them else where or rebalancing them.
Because boy o boy 8 hours on average solo cox for a purple is fun. Nevermind CMs being worse to do than normals for purps

[hollow pivot]

Praying for ToB getting some love with the new vampire quest. #MakeMorytianaGreatAgain

[craggy wind]

Excited to see what changes are going to made to corp eventually. These new updates for rebalancing and all has me extremely excited for the few remaining bosses needing a little love

[true talon]

How do you feel about being able to re-use the heart before the cooldown. its very annoying when i cast mark of darkness and heart and one runs out an i cant re-cast them both. i often just reapply mark even if i just re-cast it to try an keep them synced up. this random 5 minute cooldown also means you cant use any brews or way to restore stats and re-pot unlike melee/range.

[tender harness]

Auto cast bug with mark has to be fixed first

[slender vapor]

Yeah, it's mostly just the negative stats from sipping it keep it from being used, which makes the gap between heart and no heart feel so much worse than it is

[winter hearth]

8 hours? That's faster than TOA purple rates below 400

[tender harness]

ToA was like 3.5 hours on average was it not

[winter hearth]

~15 hours of solo 300s, ~7hrs15 mins of solo 400s. Obvi a little quicker because path invos and skull skipping aren't accounted for there

[hollow pivot]

Will justiciar ever be touched? like what will you ever need it for when you progressed to the point of clearing ToB… such a dead unique

[civic ginkgo]

Justiciar has uses... It looks nice

[frail bough]

what are chances justi gets used in raids 4

100%

[winter hearth]

It's hard to say - it might make a good candidate for some combination-scape but the difficulty with defence is just that 'attrition' gameplay just doesn't really exist anywhere in OSRS, and I'm not sure it'd track well with players broadly either when you think about what people actually find fun

[dire mango]

This just removes the current tradeoff of having to avoid brews while using a heart.

[visual arch]

@winter hearth any chance the nightmare staff can be changed to cast arceus so that we can use our volatile orbs and Eldritch at yama without them breaking when you change back to purging?

[tender harness]

Its good for rage bait with the most infuriating leg icon too

[winter hearth]

People like big numbers, enemies with high HP and low defence. Making content where attrition and tank feels super relevant is something that I feel would be really tough for us to get right

[true talon]

@winter hearth how do you feel about adding the bryo and obor system to contracts and awakener orbs. in which you lock the loot chest behind the key and not attempting the boss. I wrote something up on these two systems in the game suggestion channel.https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1377990203351896125 As i felt this took a better approach to end game and keeping content relevant past 1 time completes.

[ember token]

a suggestion I've seen for justi is to give the player flat armor when wearing it