game-update

[frail nebula]

Which is really weird

and I do not get why

[frail bough]

its not really that obvious, they've already done what you're asking

and are making further changes to make it not awful

[dense haven]

@tacit pendant has a great viewpoint on this here
#game-update message

[frail nebula]

definitely agree on combing inq and justy

and giving us a properly tanky crush set

like how oathplate is properly tanky

and it works extremely well thematically

considering inq literally is a set of justy armor in lore

[dense haven]

i agree it cant all be fixed at once. im just so curious why we take so many steps to make the boss have x,y,z changes when in reality- the simple problem is just the drop rates suck 😄 hahahaha

[frail nebula]

it's a problem that's been glaringly obvious for even longer than toa's issues have been

[frail bough]

i'd take more enjoyable boss that inherently makes the grind shorter, similar to what drop rates would do, rather than just buff drops tbh

[dense haven]

yeah, i can agree with that

[analog crow]

One thing they should do is either

1. make slepe tele available automatically after beating sotf
2. put it on the regular nightmare's drop table as a common drop
3. make it a guaranteed drop at 1-5kc pnm

The long trek is one of the key factors in people not doing pnm

[frail nebula]

even if they make pnm 50% faster, that still only takes it from 600 hours to 300 hours :/

[frail bough]

the whole rng tablet and 100 kc tablet 100% needs to go its insane

[frail nebula]

that'd still be atrocious even with double the kph

it's not just off by a little bit

it's off by whole orders of magnitude

fully agree on the tablet

[dense haven]

well, comparing the drops at phosani, what else inthe game takes that long to grind- and if it does, is it of comparable value or stats? thats my ???

[frail bough]

their whole objective recently is to get more people to pvm
giving a shitty chance at a drop for a 2 minute run, guaranteed at 100 kc is literal insanity

[limber briar]

broo stop they did agility rework so now we can run the whole way there without prepot stam

[frail bough]

TRUE

[analog crow]

pnm, torva and cox are usually cited as the more unhinged grinds

[frail bough]

I worked hard for my 99 agility, damnit!

[dense haven]

however we shouldnt forget 1 thing, just because it takes 300 hours to complete something- to be fair, you dont have to complete anything. rare drops are supposed to be rare. i get that. but still- like @analog crow just said... should PNM be on the same completion log as Torva and CoX time wise? I think no lol

[frail nebula]

ideally I think inq + mace should be somewhere in the 100-150 hour grind

[dense haven]

inq + mace should be way easier to get. i can understand the staff being rarer. but,

[frail nebula]

pnm in general should be like 3x faster to finish than it is now IMO

[rain fulcrum]

The pnm run ain't that bad

[frail nebula]

like 100-150 for mace + armor, 200 for staff?

I think that'd be reasonable

hell even then

[rain fulcrum]

Ppl over exaggerate how bad it is

[frail nebula]

the staff isn't that useful

[frail bough]

It's literally 1:45 of straight running

[frail nebula]

no it really is that bad

[rain fulcrum]

Oh no not 2 minutes

[frail nebula]

can you name a boss with a worse run

[dense haven]

dks 🤣

[rain fulcrum]

Dks

[frail nebula]

okay yes

[dense haven]

hahahahahahahaha

[frail nebula]

that's fair

[frail bough]

dks is shorter with agility shortcuts

[limber briar]

isn't dks faster now with shortcut.....?

[rain fulcrum]

Idk

[analog crow]

2 mins would be fine if you were doing something but it's just dead time

[frail bough]

dks is 1 minute with all shortcuts

[frail nebula]

new agility shortcut with 84 agility

jump from ver sinhaza straight to nightmare

[tacit pendant]

artio is longer after the cry sesh from being pked

[limber briar]

don't even think it's a minute lol

[dense haven]

idk i personally dont care about the run i just care about the drops being so rare when they arent really even that good

[frail bough]

its exactly 1 minute

[analog crow]

rather have 1 min longer ttk than 1 min of running to the boss

[trail beacon]

You did the “most minimal effort for all your TOA kc” and you talk as if your opinion on the raid actually matters. As if you know how these changes actually impact the raid. You’re probably one of those guys who hops in a 300 mass on 329 and sips his soda while someone else butterflies.

[frail bough]

^

[marsh hedge]

im sure that one is exactly timed bc theres a clue step

[frail bough]

[frail nebula]

fighting bosses is just more fun than running

[tacit pendant]

its funny cuz by the time you get the tablet, you are good enough to get several kc trips and need it less

[dense haven]

but then how will i check instagram ^

[rain fulcrum]

Chill out on the neckbearding my dude

[limber briar]

the 2minute run time killed pnm for me i just did the ca's and dipped

[dense haven]

yeah no reason to be toxic lol its just a few people talking about game changes tbh

[analog crow]

Imagine gatekeeping opinions about a video game

[trail beacon]

I just hope that if they do poll the changes that people like you have no say 🤣

[rain fulcrum]

Ur only allowed to gatekeep if the topic is tob

[frail bough]

he just mad cause i did more 300's than he did

[rain fulcrum]

No point gatekeeping toa

[frail nebula]

I bet you don't even have enough experience gatekeeping to have a valid opinion ||/s||

[frail bough]

he has literally less experience in 300 raids than me

[dense haven]

toa is already gatekept- by if you have a fang or not LOL

[frail bough]

so really, its my opinion that matters!

[frail nebula]

I've been gatekeeping for far longer than you, so your opinion is irrelevant

[analog crow]

lvl 84 girlbossing required

[dense haven]

what if we use sailing to get to PNM faster

[trail beacon]

Lmfao this is either rage bait or straight delusion 🤣

[dense haven]

im a genius

[frail bough]

surely it can't be sarcasm!

[frail nebula]

yeah, which does make the idea of severely nerfing fang drop rates a bit spooky to me

[analog crow]

I'll shoot my cannon into the cave and it'll ricochet into the boss arena

[frail nebula]

if they're going to nerf it, maybe it could be nice to see some dry protection like for the gems, but for your first one

oh I already got my fang + lb

[dense haven]

wow the bot deleted my comment

[frail nebula]

on my iron

but I have a clanmate with no fang yet

so we're probably gonna try to get him one

[dense haven]

i just got my fang on my first solo toa completion . 150 invo. i cant wait to vote yes for fang droprate being harder to get

jk

[limber briar]

abuse early and waiters always win

[frail nebula]

I got pretty heavily spooned at toa so far on my iron and I'm still just a bit nervous to see what they come up with

[dense haven]

https://tenor.com/view/you-got-to-be-quicker-than-that-gotta-be-quicker-than-that-quick-you-gotta-be-quicker-than-that-gif-17491322042216115294

[frail bough]

#waiter

[limber briar]

i'm waiting for them to make toa fun^

[frail bough]

Make toa fun again, again

[frail nebula]

They could do stuff like make the fang + lightbearer less common at higher invos

[trail beacon]

I agree entirely on fang being rarer, it’s far too common for how good it is

[frail nebula]

like how the avernic hilt is less common in ToB

that's another avenue

then the market doesn't get flooded with as many from people looking for shadows

[trail beacon]

Good shout but I reckon bots would still bleed it dry

[frail nebula]

eh, maybe

[vernal valve]

fang doesn't need anything like that. if anything, fang maybe shouldn't be so hilariously better than alternatives in ToA, which could be addressed by nerfing the hilarious defense scaling in ToA and making it so Fang isn't stronger than normal specifically in ToA.

[frail nebula]

lower invos don't print out purples the same way

[frail nebula]

this I wouldn't hate

[vernal valve]

Even then, a lot of the pain points of hasta ToAs aren't going to be as bad now. Ie, Ba-ba being literally free

[exotic stag]

Is it possible to die at baba with the update?

[frail bough]

Mind the gap!

[exotic stag]

LOL

[frail nebula]

plus you can camp bowfa at Akkha 2/3 of the time

[limber briar]

baba minions bananas hardest part of baba

[vernal valve]

and akkha enrage is getting nerfed

[trail beacon]

True, but I’ve seen a lot of bots in Toa run 300s

[vernal valve]

and scarab defense won't scale anymore

[frail nebula]

yeah, those will help things out a bunch

[vernal valve]

basically every part of the raid that makes Hasta ironman ToA runs insufferable is getting directly nerfed

[frail nebula]

there's also still 1 place in toa where hasta > fang

and always has been

the good old core

[vernal valve]

it's still annoying fang is mega good, but it really won't be as miserable anymore. Just slow, as opposed to slow and miserable.

[frail bough]

Coors!

🍻

[exotic stag]

Isn’t new akkha gonna be hell at solo 500+?

[frail bough]

why would you do it at 500 when you can just do it at 300? 😏

for real though, no clue - gl hf

[frail nebula]

I mean really

I do hope that they tone down invo scaling for purples such that you don't feel the need to spam 500s

[exotic stag]

500s are chill solo just never give me purples

[chrome lantern]

Same I'm at 70% of expected purples

[frail bough]

yeah this is basically the pvm equiv of wildy altar - you don't need to do 500's for purples but it's so damn good you feel obligated to.

[frail nebula]

I'm at 500% of expected purples on my iron which, gotta say, pretty fucking fantastic

[trail beacon]

Yup, flying akkha perfectly would mean he’s less likely to switch and you can use shadow for most of the room. With the proposed changes he will switch every time he throws a special which means you’ll be switching gear/prayers more often.

[marsh hedge]

needs fundamental changes cause just blanket reducing the chance at high invo is dumb

[exotic stag]

Wouldn’t agree

[frail bough]

how not

[exotic stag]

Just do group raids at lower invo and mvp every room

[frail nebula]

true, but you can also use shadow for 2 phases, not 1 now

so it may not be nearly as awful

well, not as awful as some fear

[frail bough]

i guess fair, but if you're truly looking to just get the purples - you can't really beat solo

[marsh hedge]

average player discovers double trouble

[exotic stag]

400s are afk tho fr and give a decent chance

Ive never had a solo purp tho

[trail beacon]

2/3 of the time is less than 100% of the time if you fly perfectly and he doesn’t rng switch on specials

[frail nebula]

oh yeah for sure

but 2/3 of the time with fang the other 1/3 isn't completely awful

[exotic stag]

It is with dehy on

[chrome lantern]

Taking chip 2/3 of the fight is significantly worse

[frail nebula]

touche

[trail beacon]

In 500s it will be awful

[chrome lantern]

Even if they reduce chip

[trail beacon]

Exactly

[marsh hedge]

ignoring double trouble the change isnt that bad though

[chrome lantern]

And also still need overheads you wouldn't otherwise need on

[chrome lantern]

Yeah but I run all the boss invocs except medic :(

[frail bough]

This is exactly why waiters never win

I mean ugh

I guess it could just be that I haven't waited long enough 🤔

[analog crow]

What happened around March 1?
The second drop is at Yama release

[restive sapphire]

zcb in the bin?

[hard axle]

nex goes down, so zcb goes down

zcb affects armadyl cb

[tender harness]

quick stock up on zcbs

[analog crow]

time to panic buy acb abd zcb

[limber briar]

will probably go up soon due to delve boss

[trail beacon]

Oh gosh, akkha transmog with the proposed changes will be such ass

[tender harness]

watch delve boss have a +255 range weakness

[analog crow]

Wow
Rip to the poor souls who bought

[marsh hedge]

the transmog? mate akkha mog is an average money 540

well 1/6 but fairly common

[trail beacon]

It’s easy now but with the changes where he switches I can imagine it being way more ass

[tacit pendant]

Did anyone see any heavy ranged changes that matter in spreadsheet?

Ill go look brb

[chrome lantern]

I saw a recommendation in my own clan

Make PNM deaths spawn you outside like Yama

Would be massive

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah that would be pretty fair

[ionic tartan]

I prefer the walk of shame if you die, it feels more oldschool to me.

[vivid iris]

Can we not change the Phosani's fight itself? It is my favorite boss and I think its length and endurance requirement are fundamental to the fight itself.

If people still think it takes too long to get items (fair take) then why not just buff the rates again instead? Reducing kill times is effectively the same as buffing drop rates, in terms of how easy it is to get them.

[tacit pendant]

So bloodreaver weaker to zcb. Drakes, dragons weaker to dhcb thats all

The fight itself is too long

Phase 1 is extremly easy and the same as phase 2. The endurance test is multiple kill trips anyways as is

[civic ginkgo]

The reason they don't want to buff the rates is because that will decrease the price of the uniques

[tacit pendant]

So removing phases just means longer trip on average higher intensity

Making the fight shorter also lowers price of uniques

[civic ginkgo]

And for those that have did the 100's of hours of grind to get a harm orb will be our of pocket

Not as much though

[limber briar]

waiters always win

[civic ginkgo]

Making the fight shorter might mean more people will do PNM, but reducing the rates will definitely have people doing the fight more

[limber briar]

honestly they just need to increase the tablet rate/add it to regular nightmare and that will increase people doing the fight more

[tacit pendant]

We cant let people already doing stupid grinds prevent us from making them unstupid

[vivid iris]

I don't really care one way or the other about buffing or nerfing the hours to complete the log, I just don't think the fight needs to be changed. That's just my two cents, I know most people are probably gonna disagree

[civic ginkgo]

Personally, I think they should reduce the rates

But I can see why they won't

[tacit pendant]

This is a valid opinion, i disagree with it but its valid

[hasty shard]

add dupe protection there

[limber briar]

add 4x rate dry potection to everything!

[tacit pendant]

Tradeable inquizitor shards when

[civic ginkgo]

I agree with you mic, I think there is a lot of people who gatekeep the content that they like, and that makes it less appealing to everyone else

[vivid iris]

i think a better step to making it accessible so ppl want to do it more is making the tablet easier to get

[civic ginkgo]

That as well

[vivid iris]

drop from regular nightmare or just buff the rate

maybe this is "gatekeeping" but improving upon my PB is one of my favorite things about the boss and all my kc up to now becomes meaningless if you change the fight

[civic ginkgo]

As much as people say the runback isn't bad, that's what stops a lot of people

And the drop rates, the trash loot

[tacit pendant]

It does suck to have your pb wiped, but tbf, surge pots and death charge just invalidated that so its a great time to change it if they want to

[civic ginkgo]

I will say the same thing I said to the guy who was worried about the obor high scores

[rain fulcrum]

Just fletch during the run back

[vivid iris]

i mean i know buffs happen with gear and everything, but that feels different because it's still the same boss fight

[tacit pendant]

You will still get p1 in p2, they arent removing any mechanics

[civic ginkgo]

The want of the few should not impact the need of the Many

[rain fulcrum]

Ppl still aren't gonna do pnm after they remove 1 phase

[tacit pendant]

Inq and harm fundamentally fill important roles in elemental weaknesses and crush armor. The drop rates need buffed and the fight needs to be less exhausting for irons

[civic ginkgo]

That's what I'm saying, I don't think it's gonna affect it a whole bunch

[rain fulcrum]

Just like increasing the drops a bit didn't either

[civic ginkgo]

Which is why they removed a phase and didn't reduce the rates, so as to keep the items high priced

[tacit pendant]

I mean i think they will and do already

[rain fulcrum]

They need to make the gear better

If they want people to do the boss

[civic ginkgo]

I've seen people say they should make the rates 50% better

[vivid iris]

this is hard to judge for sure without actually changing it, but removing a phase (increasing KPH) is in theory identical to just buffing the rates

[tacit pendant]

The gear is very good. It needs content

Inq is super strong at all crush content?

[civic ginkgo]

In theory yes, but I guarantee you if they cut the drop rates by a third, more people would do it

Well I speculate it would

But they need to try something, NM is basically dead content

[tacit pendant]

They are cutting drop rates by 20%. There are 5 phases no?

Effectively

[rain fulcrum]

Not having content is sort of the same as the gear being bad

[austere mulch]

Closer to 24%

Bc 5th phase is significantly shorter

[tacit pendant]

Not counting banking and walking in the kph conversation

[austere mulch]

And doesn’t have pillars after

[rain fulcrum]

Nobody cares about being good crush gear if there's nothing to crush

[austere mulch]

So maybe closer to 30% even

Jk more like 24

24-25

[civic ginkgo]

You can crush spiders

[tacit pendant]

Yes but also there are more crush bosses than stab

Inq has more uses than torva atm lol

[civic ginkgo]

\s

[austere mulch]

LOL sad but basically true 😭😭

[tacit pendant]

Its close though

[rain fulcrum]

That's true if you consider Torva trash at all the places it was bis up until 2 weeks ago

[fair comet]

Torva didn’t get any worse just because Oathplate exists, it’s still really great armor.

[tacit pendant]

Slash > stab + crush content because of 300m scythe

[vivid ruin]

Torva is great all around

[tacit pendant]

The future will have to solve this inbalance

[rain fulcrum]

Also a lot of the crush content is just bleh slayer bosses

[tacit pendant]

And phosanis lol

[austere mulch]

Inq has PNM, nm, sarachnis
Torva has toa, nex, and… general slayer maybe? Idk bp always king and anything you can’t bp you usually scythe. Blade may also outperform Torva rapier

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah

[tacit pendant]

Rax

Cerb

[rain fulcrum]

If you introduce just 1 endgame crush where inq really makes a diff

Then phosanis might take off

Araxxor isn't really enough for that

[austere mulch]

Yeah I mean rax, not Sarahnis whoops

Oath wins there

[vivid iris]

oathplate is better than inq at sarach now, although for KPH im pretty sure you bring masori top and maaybe 1 piece of oathplate just so you dont get shredded by the mager

[austere mulch]

Too many spider bosses

Brain can’t compute

[fair comet]

Not to mention, Oathplate is ugly. It looks like Hardcore Ironman ornamental

[austere mulch]

Gets even uglier when you bleach it

[civic ginkgo]

Y'all are forgetting cave bugs are weak to crush

[tacit pendant]

Phosanis is good money right now, both that fight and the armor are relevant currently

The changes help irons

[rain fulcrum]

Then why do people think we need to fix it

[civic ginkgo]

Because of the time to get it

[rain fulcrum]

The time to get it is fine if the armor is good tho

[tacit pendant]

Time to get effects irons not mains, because a main will just sell the 400m orb and quit

[vivid ruin]

The fight is long, tied to drops that are similar to shorter boss fights lol

[tacit pendant]

The armor is good

[civic ginkgo]

I'm just going by what I've seen today

And seen on the various nm reddits

[vivid iris]

If we're concered about drop rates, prices, gp/hr, ironman, then the conversation needs to be around drop rates, not changing the fight IMO

[vivid ruin]

Either or

[tacit pendant]

Thats fair. Personally i think the first 3 phases are a slog similar to yama p1 and p2 or a lot of toa

[chrome lantern]

I think both is definitely the right answer

Having 3 phases of identical PNM isn't really valuable

[civic ginkgo]

Well by the looks of the GE, people are buying them, they've spiked in prices, so I don't think people are worried about the price dropping

[tacit pendant]

I think do this, wait and see

[rain fulcrum]

They aren't identical tho

[chrome lantern]

Sure there's another sleepwalker

[rain fulcrum]

Not just that

[tacit pendant]

Explain the differences

[rain fulcrum]

He uses different specials in each phaae

Phase

[chrome lantern]

Only regular NM does

PNM is same in all 3

[rain fulcrum]

No

[tacit pendant]

Phase 1 and phase 2 use the same specials, phase 3 uses other set, phase 4 prayers, then enrage

[rain fulcrum]

He will for example either use parasite in p1 and P3 or use it in p2 and p4

[austere mulch]

Well I wouldn’t go as far as to say the armor is good, but it’s also weird bc like… it’s got more use than Torva atm 🥶 assuming you have all bis

But like

If you had to choose one armor set

[vivid iris]

the spawn specials alternate

[austere mulch]

It wouldn’t be inq

[chrome lantern]

Sure but you can just as easily spread that out across kills randomly and have the same outcome

[vivid iris]

husks p1, parasite p2, husks p3, parasite p4, or the other way around

[rain fulcrum]

If you think the phases are identical I would question if you have farmed the boss

[chrome lantern]

I have like 115 kc

I have never really noticed tbh

[tacit pendant]

For sure but if its buffed anymore inq DOES become bis alot more places than it should

Its very strong as it is

[civic ginkgo]

The specials are random throughout phases 1-3

[vivid iris]

that is mostly correct but like i said the spawn specials are guaranteed to alternate between phases, but it can start with either one

[rain fulcrum]

Which specials are in p1 is random

[austere mulch]

Give lil more hp to pnm phases and have it just be p1, p2, and “enrage” if you’d call it that

Husks, parasite, enrage every time and call it a day

[rain fulcrum]

And then after that it's deterministic

[chrome lantern]

Sure but taking one phase out as an example

Who cares if you go para husk para or husk para husk randomly and miss out on a second set each kc

[tacit pendant]

The phases use alternating a1 a2 b1 and b2 to randomize specials. Functionally if you have 2 "easy phases" (phases 1 2 and 3) you will see both A sets and B sets

1/2 kills you could see duplicate sets, the other half P1 and P3 could be different

So in a 4 phase pnm it would be

Specs A1 or A2
Specs B1 or B2
Specs A1 or A2 with prayoff
Enrage

[true talon]

Bringing it down to sub 4 mins is perfectly fine. its actually to fucking long currently.

[tacit pendant]

Finally a good tass take

[civic ginkgo]

Tass has been fighting for his life today

[vivid iris]

Fairly sure it would be closer to 5:15-5:30 average kills

[tacit pendant]

If anything this change makes a trip HARDER, 4 more intense fights > 3 longer less intense on average fights

[true talon]

Ya no idea why anyone would be like, torva is dead now, because a slash armor with 6 less melee str has come out. meanwhile torva only had 6 str over bando's/blood moon lol

[tacit pendant]

Torva is not dead. We could just use more stab and crush bosses. Melee armor is in a good spot (droprate of oath aside)

[true talon]

I back my takes with data, numbers and non personal feelings. but you seem to not really agree with it. so you write it as bad without providing a counter arguement.

[true talon]

Drop rate of oath is fine, my duo an i are a combined 1400 kills and we saw 1 helm and 2 horns

[tacit pendant]

I mean oath hasnt crashed yet. Although using a personal anecdote after that whole "i use data" thing was

[true talon]

I agree on that

[ashen sail]

Rework kbd!

[true talon]

But i dont think oathplate is to common

[tacit pendant]

I am leaning more that way every day

Torva/inq rates was always the problem 🙂

[true talon]

10 kph or 15 in absolute max an duo + factoring in banking. = on average 12 hours to hit the table 20 hours to see a oathpiece, 60 hours to see a unique piece.

[fair comet]

It is too common in relation to the drop rates of Torva. Jagex stated they’re targeting 70-80 hours for the full Oathplate set. While Torva is at the 200-300 hour range.

[vivid iris]

oathplate combined with torva helm at the moment is the meta for almost all scythe content which kinda makes sense being a slash weapon. But generally the use cases of torva got drastically reduced by the introduction of oathplate

[tacit pendant]

Torva was always too expensive for the dps it gave, that was common consensus in every gear progression raids chart ive seen

[fair comet]

Torva wasn’t ever bought because it’s a great dps/gp value. It’s one of the last upgrades a main should make

[true talon]

trio nex is 5 min kills, drop rate in your name is 1/43x3 or 1/129 give or take. meaning its around 10 kph. or 4.4 hours to see a unique and 13.2 hours to see it in your name, torva piece is 1/258 meaning it takes 8 hours on average to see a piece of torva and 24 hours to see a unique with it being 72 hours in your name.

[tacit pendant]

Seems more common to me, yall must be killing her wrong

[true talon]

Nice legs

[tacit pendant]

Shhh the legs arent real

[civic ginkgo]

Nice pet

[tacit pendant]

Smh. Back i go

[true talon]

Legs are fake 😦

They were my last item lol

[civic ginkgo]

Why can't I post a picture?

[chrome lantern]

I'm only missing legs for green log

[tacit pendant]

I was so giga spooned here, and bodies were still 400m

[chrome lantern]

Also only missing chaps for ToA completion

[civic ginkgo]

I want to show my 6kc next pet

Nex

[tacit pendant]

Etube lets pot

[chrome lantern]

I need to get my chaps first

[true talon]

Also this might be the funniest picture ive seen of its gonna be an in out adventure.

[tacit pendant]

Surely one of us wins

[chrome lantern]

Especially with them ragging ToA loot

[true talon]

Hopefully they hit high invo toa with a hard cap of 30%

Because even if the raid is accessible, its not the billybobs doing 150 toa's printing the uniques.

[civic ginkgo]

I've had four people in my clan get shadow, 3 was 150's, surely that means you're wrong \s

[chrome lantern]

I mean I only get 15% in 500 solos so idk what you think for solos

Statistically so many shadows are 150s just due to how many raids happen but man can it be annoying to see

[true talon]

Solo is not that high yea. but solo also takes considerably longer

8 man 500 is printing a purple every 30 minutes

[civic ginkgo]

It's funny, there's a guy in my clan who does constant 400-500, did 200 before seeing a shadow, three noobs all got their shadows under 10kc doing 150's

He was jealous lmao

[tacit pendant]

Yall dont wanna see my toa log, that raid do indeed shit out purps

[hard axle]

i stg

for some reason

its always the normal mode noobs

The 265 raid level prodigies with 3 shadows somehow

[civic ginkgo]

Please don't use the hand shushing the duck moji on me pls

[rain fulcrum]

Money 150s

[hard axle]

[vivid iris]

fang might be too far gone to where it's gonna be like occults and whatnot where jagex is like "nah there are so many in the game there's no point in making a sink for it" lol

[rain fulcrum]

I made more profit off 50s than I did off 350s when I was new

[hard axle]

no, it's still recoverable because if the price goes up, people will sell to replace for other gear during rebuilds

its just how much do you want to psuedo-alch

via ge tax

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah you can pretty easily fix the damage via ge tax

[civic ginkgo]

I mean, fang doubled in price today just by the mention of loot changes

[rain fulcrum]

It just means reducing inflation left

Lsss

But now that they have double the funds

Should be easy

[tacit pendant]

Fang already up to 20m

[civic ginkgo]

LB is 4m

[tacit pendant]

Lb is so strong for 4 mil holy moly. I guess having a spec weapon is the cost

Lb might as well have been a prayer at that point

[vivid iris]

could be an overreaction (ge prices reflect sentiment more than reality at least at first) but we'll see

[rain fulcrum]

It'll probably calm down as people remember jagex is slow af

[tacit pendant]

This always happens

[civic ginkgo]

It kinda has, it went to 20m, now 18m

[tacit pendant]

Price spikes and then people remember that time is a thing

[rare grotto]

runescape players overreacting?

no way.

[austere mulch]

Be sick if it were tbh

[rain fulcrum]

Well it's probably more like some guy buying 3k fangs

[rare grotto]

fang's still gonna be piss cheap when it's all said and done

[tacit pendant]

And if you are a flipper, quick flips are the way

[rain fulcrum]

Lb should have charge scape attached to it imo

[vivid iris]

for merching/flipping, the early adopters/holders make the majority of their profits off the bag holders who buy in super late after the news comes out

[tacit pendant]

Tier 90 spec prayer + yama spec drops gonna have us bringing every single spec weapon in the same inv for mole

[civic ginkgo]

If they sink enough fangs, and make it more rare, fang could soar

[vivid iris]

yeah the amount of spec creep we've gotten since toa is crazy

[civic ginkgo]

And LB

Fang shouldn't be a 10m weapon

[vivid iris]

only problem is TOA is fucking cancer without a fang so the harder fang is to get, the more shit TOA is before you get it. Not an iron but that's what i've heard

[tacit pendant]

I dont mind spec weapon creep really its fun to spec.

[hard axle]

lower the defense

of the toa bosses

stop fucking capping defense reduction at 20-60 less than base

[tacit pendant]

So with the toa changes

[hard axle]

let it go to ZERO defense

That's how you solve this problem

[tacit pendant]

Bowfa against baba and akkha and keris against kephri should carry non-fang irons most of the way

[civic ginkgo]

Just have all the bosses changed to giant moles

[tacit pendant]

Bowfa hits baba fairly hard lol

[civic ginkgo]

In toa

[tacit pendant]

At higher invos, def cap should atleast be proportionate to the def increases

[chrome lantern]

Fang still better than bofa on akkha and when it's praying ranged you just do nothing at that point

[tacit pendant]

Like 20 def reduction rips at 150 info, but is varely felt at 500

[hard axle]

please

always cap at 0% or 50%

[civic ginkgo]

I've seen this enough today that maybe Jagex will listen

[tacit pendant]

Cap at 75% would be fair

In keeping mauls and ralos out of their as intended

[hard axle]

please let me reduce to 0 or half defense

[tacit pendant]

Listen, im just trying to keep jagexs silly no hammer rule

[hard axle]

[tacit pendant]

I feel u

[rain fulcrum]

I legit don't understand why jagex hates def reduction so much

[tacit pendant]

It makes sense in context of history

[civic ginkgo]

Hate is a strong word

[tacit pendant]

When tob was the newest pvm update and both raids had you hammer spamming

[civic ginkgo]

Loathe is better

[tacit pendant]

It made sense

[rain fulcrum]

Even tob has a balance inside it

[tacit pendant]

Whats funny is that now

[rain fulcrum]

Not every boss is 0 defense and you can't reduce verzik at all

[tacit pendant]

With spec pot and dc and lb

U get to 0 def, and boom u get to use the other stuff

So it was all for nothing

[vivid iris]

everyone complained about warhammerscape/defense-reduction-scape before toa

same with salve-scape

i think baba was originally supposed to be undead

[tacit pendant]

Now its demonbanescape

[civic ginkgo]

Wow rs players complaining, never heard of that

[austere mulch]

Def reduction is a complete non issue in a raid where your spec resets between encounters

[vivid iris]

jagex has a tendency to listen to complaints and then overcorrect

[austere mulch]

Aka tob and toa

[vivid iris]

for example scythe having no content and being 300m, people complain, it gets buffed and given use cases constantly for 2 years and now its the most expensive

[civic ginkgo]

Now I've not done tob, but isn't it the hardest raid?

I thought that's why scythe was so expensive

[tacit pendant]

Well its more that jagex only focuses on a few things (in pvm meta) at a time

If we had multiple teams releasing multiple bosses every season instead of 1 boss every season, wed have use cases for everything

I hope we get more dt2 updates, bosses drop like 1 or two good things thats it. (No orbs, ingots, etc)

[vivid iris]

i supported most of the scythe buffs but by the time araxxor came out i was like "ok that's good for scythe" then even titans is a scythe bis lol

[tacit pendant]

Huey is scythe too

[vivid iris]

yep

[tacit pendant]

Very important content

[civic ginkgo]

Everything is scythe bait

[vivid iris]

all it realistically "needed" is colo

[rain fulcrum]

I feel like Colo was way more impactful than rax anyway

[civic ginkgo]

I'm surprised that they didn't make zulrah hittable with scythe

It's weird, but I feel like I don't hear about Colo as much as I should

[vivid iris]

at least scythe doesnt beat emberlight, that wouldve been weird

[hasty shard]

scythe is bis for crush contract right

[vivid iris]

pretty sure mace is better but idk

you need the accuracy, scythe's accuracy is kinda garbo on crush even with inq

[rain fulcrum]

The zulrah change was completely unnec

Unnecessary

[tacit pendant]

Delete zulrah put bp on tob drop table its time

[austere mulch]

Scythe has the crush accuracy of addy mace for context

[civic ginkgo]

I've heard people are kinda liking the melee zulrah

[austere mulch]

So you’re basically forced to use inq

[hasty shard]

addy mace also doesnt hit 80s

[austere mulch]

Vs mace you can use soul for more boom boom

[tacit pendant]

Ostoayak crush please!

[civic ginkgo]

A few in my clan are saying it's pretty chill

[rain fulcrum]

on smth like araxxor scythe is pretty accurate

even wihtout inq

[vivid iris]

it wasn't meant to be meta at all, i think they didnt realize how powerful it was gonna be because zulrah has no melee defense. It was just meant to be a fun niche thing you can do, not an efficient thing

[austere mulch]

not yet

[rain fulcrum]

good thing jagex is good at predicting whether smth will be meta..

[hasty shard]

halberds just need to be 5t as well

not just nox

[tacit pendant]

Melee zulrah is fun tho

[rain fulcrum]

make nox 6t

[hasty shard]

mb chally for obv reasons keep 7t but w/e

[civic ginkgo]

Make it 8t

[tacit pendant]

5t chally would hit so hard

[civic ginkgo]

Kill the hype for melee zulrah

[austere mulch]

Fun fact, when Jagex release Zulrah, the trailer had a character with a dragon hally attacking Zulrah

Who would’ve thought all these years later…

[civic ginkgo]

I did not know that

[tacit pendant]

Make nox hally spec deiron others on hit

[civic ginkgo]

Then again, I only started playing again 2 years agoish

[austere mulch]

That 2015-2019 era was insane

[civic ginkgo]

I missed all the hype of eoc

[austere mulch]

We got Zulrah, fossil island, wildy bosses, slayer bosses, cox, inferno, tob

All in just under 4 years

[civic ginkgo]

That is insane

[rain fulcrum]

and then they promoted kieren

[civic ginkgo]

I'm liking a lot of the content they've been releasing as well, varlamore is really nice

[chrome lantern]

I'd be down with deleting p2 varlamore

[vivid iris]

i started in 2019

i remember when 4m/hr was crazy money, now you can get like 6m at vorkath lmao

[tacit pendant]

If huey could just be competetive with fucking muspah id be happy with him

[civic ginkgo]

No, the seed slug needs to be superior unfortunately

My problem with huey is, it has so many interesting mechanics

[tacit pendant]

Crazy we got venator bow from muspah, but team boss huey got nothin

[true talon]

creates antother problem with scythe now bis

[civic ginkgo]

But it just doesn't do it for me

[vivid iris]

cant stand huey

[civic ginkgo]

Think I have 100kc, I was at the area waiting for the update to fight it

But I just got bored

[vivid iris]

it just seems like a boss that has no business existing, no unique mechanics besides the prayer thing but that's basically just a buff for being in a group without actually adding any interesting teamwork

[civic ginkgo]

I feel the mechanics they have just doesn't go together

[rain fulcrum]

you have to decide who will pray what!!

[vivid iris]

just a less fun scurrius

solo it is just a less fun and easier nightmare

[civic ginkgo]

Scurrius is actually a low-key fun boss

For being the level it is

[vivid iris]

i liked scurrius, huey just seems like worse scurrius

[tacit pendant]

It would be fine if it was rewarding

[civic ginkgo]

Yeah

[vivid iris]

all the drops were pointless besides the seeds

[civic ginkgo]

Which one, huey or scurrius?

[tacit pendant]

Make huey drop hella bone shards for bis prayer xp or somethin

[tacit wharf]

nightmare must be fun as hell then

[tacit pendant]

Heuy

Scurrius is actually rewarding

[tacit wharf]

while i do agree the fight is a little long solo, it wasnt that bad for my 400kc

[vivid iris]

its not the worst thing ive ever done, just doesnt seem like it needed to exist

[tacit wharf]

another nice place where learning to dodge mechanics while also dealing dmg

[vivid iris]

right, i think scurrius did that better though

the wave skipping part is fine i guess

[civic ginkgo]

Yeah you right

[tacit wharf]

scurrius is just enough brain on to make sure you dodge teh spew but not interesting enough to not make you fall asleep

[vivid iris]

you can afk it with guthan's, or scythe blood fury if you hate money. that's how i got the pet

[tacit wharf]

still with guthans u have to dodge, ive tried

[vivid iris]

you need amulet of the damned too

but ive done it comfortably for like 3-4 minutes at a time afk

[untold zenith]

when is this summer sweetup thing gonna be in the game?

[tacit wharf]

guess ill try that the next time i have a bit of afk time

between now and later

probably going to sprinkle the updates in as they finish

[vivid iris]

you can still die if youre unlucky but it's basically 0 death cost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeMNR0MlXEA&t=189s

[tacit wharf]

will have to try, hopefully i saved some ammy's of the damned

[hard axle]

Nope, not true. Solo Fang will still be bis or comparable.

Especially if you keep the bonus defense stats the same

[hasty shard]

saw someone say reduce defenses and make fang calc like normal in toa as a tradeoff

[rain fulcrum]

Yes yes yes

If your super accurate weapon has to be even MORE accurate

The defense is fucked beyond belief

[vivid ruin]

Id like to use my keris for more than a spec weapon

In toa

[ember token]

cant remember where I saw it, mightve been reddit, but I saw someone suggest that the keris paristan should work like a baby fang for toa

[true talon]

Never thought id see the helm pass the plate body (its more because its more plates to fortifed the body than the helm)

[lusty patio]

Is that summer sweep up stuff to come in future? Or stuff they’ve just changed now?

[tacit wharf]

its a blog, so stuff to come

[austere mulch]

It’s crazy bc helm slot also competes with slayer helm, so is generally less valuable than other slots

Bc bc Torva helm is basically the defacto item and top/legs are replaced with Torva, even something that is worse on any slayer task to another 1m item is more valuable

💀

Oathplate “is a sidegrade” btw

[narrow folio]

Adding more nonslash content and buffing/upgrading torva a little would solve that problem real quick

[tacit wharf]

hey can u check to see if i had my react permissions removed?

[obsidian venture]

Maybe flat armor could help

But it's gonna take a couple months, maybe even a year or two

For more melee based content and or melee maxes

So def not real quick by any means at Jagex's pace

[narrow folio]

I don't think so and you have steel rank so you might need to restart

[tacit wharf]

hmm k, ty for checking

[vivid ruin]

Mine no longer work on the troll because he blocked me

[tacit wharf]

ahh that might be it

[meager flame]

well you cant really buff torva you just have to depend on jagex to actually make non slash weapons and content

well you could buff torva but

then you'd delete the point of oathplate existing in the first place

the hardest part for people to accept is that you're supposed to replace torva with oathplate when you need slash accuracy

that part is working fine except for the helm

the obvious flaw is that jagex hasn't been making non slash content and that they simp extremely hard for specifically the scythe to be the best melee option a lot

which if this is the type of game design they're going to go for

they cannot do

[frigid kettle]

I hope Jagex reconsiders the soul wars crate changes. Just started an ironman and losing my only access to runite bolts is gonna really suck considering I just got my rcb drop earlier this week

[tough nacelle]

runite bolts kinda suck tbh

addy bolts are peak

reality is it was too strong of items vs where you should get them at that point

[frigid kettle]

I was gonna make them into onyx bolts and alch them using infernal eels

[tough nacelle]

bone cross bow is sick

[true talon]

Well the only style left is stab, so they would have to make stab content for torva to matter, despite inqusitor being dogass its still better than torva on crush.

Biggest issue is the gap between mid game melee and end game melee is absolutely tiny.

going from bloodmoon to torva you gain 6 str thats technical 1 an half max hits

[vivid ruin]

Eh the thing about torva, inquis, oath. Torva is relatively useful everywhere. Where as oath/inquis peak in specific places

[true talon]

look at this btw

[meager flame]

i mean the steps are obviously too small

[true talon]

Melee armor is far to weak

[meager flame]

jagex has a really serious problem a lot of the time with making upgrades actual meaningful upgrades

[true talon]

the gaps are so absolutely tiny

[meager flame]

they pretty much get people to hop on and drop a billion hours to get .1 dps

and the item thats just below it is usually essentially free lol

[true talon]

Then this is absolute giga max melee

[tacit wharf]

i mean another example is the gap between barrows gloves and zaryt vamb's, where they couldnt even make huey vamb's better than barrows

[true talon]

Someone asked me why masori was so dirt cheap

This was why if you hit more than 2 ralos even void is better than masori lol

Masori vs billybob d hide

[vivid ruin]

They really should add more to range. Like heavy range sets, long range sets, short range sets. Change up how range dps works

[true talon]

its because of blowpipe

but they did add light weakness and stuff to counter that

so i think they are setup to be more free on how to adjust blowpipes power

[proud whale]

is there an official channel to submit feedback/suggestions with today's blogpost? like when they usually do those responds surveys? not really in the mood to try to make clickbaity rage reddit thread or tweet

[true talon]

not yet

[proud whale]

ahh kk, will look forward to it

[hard axle]

This was always the problem when it came to melee because melee has 0 hyperscaling weapons and lacks accuracy compared to mage/range armor + weapons.

Even Lance is considered pretty moderate.

We have 5 armors at +4 STR bonus lol

[true talon]

Anyone else feel slayer helm is outdated. seeing the new zuk helm perk with getting bonuses off task. and having additional slayer points to unlock perks to be immune to the effects of slayer monsters. i feel they could just have it where you give a slayer helm I to a slayer master to grant your helm slot the perks of slayer helm while on task. the current system does more harm than good to helm slots and set bonuses.

[sacred cove]

I would upvote that if it was in game suggestions

[ember token]

you are right that its a problem but wrong in suggesting that we should powercreep by making the slayer helm bonus damage not require wearing the slayer helmet

to some people this will be controversial but they should make the slayer helm not work on any bosses period

[meager flame]

tbh

the slayer helm shouldn't even exist lol

you should just get more exp from slayer

thats all they were really trying to fix

[true talon]

well my proposal fixes the problems with slayer helm an set balance

will also sink black mask

as you sacrfice it

[meager flame]

just once upon a time they realized they were being kind of annoying with all of the various nose pegs and shit you had to remember to wear

and that slayer was slow

[sacred cove]

But you won't have a reason to get another, so not a meaningful sink

[meager flame]

so they just made a helm do all of that and put a damage buff on it to make you go a little faster

[ember token]

black mask prices are perfectly fine so there's also not really a need to sink them

[true talon]

The biggest downside is ofc the slayer helm cosmetic upgrades are now useless

thus zuk helm means nothing

But they could make it some other cosmetic that you would actually wear while pvming

zuk helm is something you were when on task and nowhere else lol

Slayer helm is def an ancient system that needs to be looked at. it has caused multiple problems with set balance and having them move each piece to have the set effect.

They could even make it a slayer blessing, since they dont get much use tbh

[ember token]

they know being able to kill bosses on task just causes problems, which is why they have to make it not apply to some bosses and/or make some bosses not count as monsters they should count as, and they have to make speedrun CAs specify not being on task

[frail bough]

Honestly feel like wearing slayer helm only makes sense for th ethings you need protection from, the buff itself should just exist

[true talon]

anything but the helm

I guess slayer blessing doesnt work, because of ammo slot

[frail bough]

doesnt need to be on anything you wear IMO

[true talon]

Facts but how do you make GM valaidation seekers happy

[tribal sierra]

I was gonna grind for my slayer helm inbue damn

[tacit wharf]

make gm helm a mask

[ember token]

like for example Bloat could count as zombie or ogre task and you would get slayer XP for killing him on task, but you wouldnt have to worry about the slayer helm because it just wouldnt apply to bosses

slayer xp from soteseg on a dark beast task, slayer xp from nylocas and verzik on a spider task

[frail bough]

yerp

[true talon]

btw if yama was a slayer task it would give like 25k slayer exp a kill

[hard axle]

This is probably the main reason why they don't do it. It's a lot of legacy code to sift through and undo

[true talon]

he has a 10xp exp multipier lol

[hard axle]

slayer xp doesn't normally get the combat xp multiplier iirc

[true talon]

oh right its combat

[frail bough]

im so excited ot see what they have for ideas on slayer tbh

[true talon]

guess the easiest fix for the slayer helm cosmetics is to have it be a toggleable effect overlay

[zenith pike]

your armor white yet?

[hard axle]

just logged in first time in 4 days

[true talon]

I know all the negative yama stuff was about contracts, base yama is great

[hard axle]

They did fix some of the issues, but overall, it got harder

[true talon]

my only issue with yama atm is the phasing

[meager flame]

"The Hitpoints on the Obelisk on the Path of Het are slightly reduced, so that 1-downs don't require boosting above 99 Mining."

im still just out here wondering what this means

[zenith pike]

if you're a cancer patient, bloodied got harder, otherwise not splashing on orbs made it so much easier but that's just me

[slender vapor]

85 mining = 99

[hard axle]

sensory

[zenith pike]

ok y eah I got cancer from that one

[meager flame]

like

[zenith pike]

more than any other

[hard axle]

that's literally the main one that got harder

[meager flame]

do they not know about walking in for the extra hit on pillar

that would explain why they typed that out

[hard axle]

because they made enrage even longer

[meager flame]

but lol that would be insane

[zenith pike]

yeah

[chrome lantern]

It means they don't want to make people do it to 1 down which means 0 skill/effort

[frail bough]

"skill"

[true talon]

ya you can 1 down with 85 or d pick axe with 99 an 1 down regarldess of the extra tick mechanic

the skill got removed by the plugin

[meager flame]

you would've just looked for a different animation to click with

instead of the progress circle

[slender vapor]

The only reason I grinded 85 mining and a dragon pick was for the 1 down

[chrome lantern]

I was extremely consistent without the plugin

I can count

[meager flame]

im still confused though about the boost above 99 part

do you even have to do that if you miss the first hit at 99

[chrome lantern]

You can get another maxhit if you spec

Yeah

[zenith pike]

yes you did

[chrome lantern]

It's RNG to 1down it without speccing and without extra mine

Probably like a 1/20 chance

Or less

[meager flame]

yeah i mean i just click the pillar from the right tile

i just couldn't believe i was sitting there reading that like people actually got to 99 and used a pick spec to be able to do it

lmao that sounds toxic but like who the fuck would do that

[frail bough]

someone who doesnt knwo about the mechanic

considering its not intuitive at all

[chrome lantern]

Yeah on release it was a whole thing

[zenith pike]

last resort or just non solo situations

[chrome lantern]

You just assumed you needed to spec

And also if you miss

Again, before there was a plugin

[meager flame]

also im ngl

theres a good chance i would just do a 2 phase pillar before i dumped my spec for it

unless this is like a really easy version of akkha or something in the next room

would be a shame to try to use it for the mining room then make a mistake and have problems on akkha because of it

[true talon]

Ya thats not a big change tbh

[zenith pike]

anyway get on it

[narrow folio]

The problem with this is leaving masori in the dust. We already see this issue with torva. Sidegrades become the upgrade basically...

Don't try to bandaid shitty weapons with overpowered armor, how about make the weapon actually meaningful on its own

[slender vapor]

Good thing every boss will have flat armor and +900 dart defense going forward

[narrow folio]

And it's not like blowpipe doesn't deserve to be bis at bosses forever. It has a niche and that niche should be in new content.

[tiny epoch]

masori is better than void in most places u range

slayer helm is part of that for inferno/fc

but like zulrah muspah shamans vasa akkha warden levi

idk like mole

void is pretty niche

[dim ridge]

dont worry soon they'll make a 1t ranged weapon that scales even better than bp

[naive lake]

and forget to disable it in pvp causing a shitshow

[dim ridge]

also when do we get gem studded throwing axes

[chrome lantern]

Hot take if it were possible to properly balance a 1t weapon I think that would be sick because movement would instantly mean massive dps loss

[dim ridge]

with enchantmentsl

[slender vapor]

Ngl, mega rares should've been balanced around less ticks

They're currently stronger AND easier to use

Instead of stronger and harder to use

[chrome lantern]

Also wouldn't need as many conditionals to control/balance their power around

[slender vapor]

5 tick attack cycles are long enough to find someone, fall in love, marry, have children and send them to university in-between attacks

[final frigate]

@winter hearth Would it be possible to get stats (%) for number of clears or purples for a few toa raid level brackets/scales? For example duo 400s or trio 350s are around the same purple rates as solo 540s, and surely 500+ invo clear counts are a tiny tiny minority overall. I'd hate to see the few high end runners getting disproportionately punished by drop rate changes when I suspect the majority of toa purple flooding comes from how accessible and rewarding team scale low invo runs are. Especially with how 350-400s are doable with dcb/bowfa trident while 540s have much more significant gear reqs and are much less fun.

Not sure if I should poke you or ash on this one just saw you active here

[lament peak]

the scaling on purple rate at high invo is kind of absurd though, even if it's difficult

[meager flame]

i think people really like the idea of faster weapons and losing ticks and stuff

but im also pretty sure jagex doesn't want to make a megarare and then tell most players they suck too much to use it

lol it would really change how people look at them

and they wouldn't be nearly as like

sought after or used when people figured out that they were actually bad for xyz reason all over the place when you actually had to move and play the game at the same time

[lament peak]

running my vorkath trips with sharks instead of mantas now since jmods insist on removing them

[final frigate]

Yeah and they can lower it if that's what they believe, but it's nowhere near as big of an issue as low invo rates

If they lowered high invo rates they'd have to nerf lower invos significantly

For it to make any sense

Wouldn't be surprised if there are literally 50-100x more purps coming in from the 350-400 bracket than 500-545 bracket

10x at the bare minimum

[ember token]

manta rays cost 1900, dark crabs cost 1400, tuna potatoes cost 1600

all heal the same amount

[lament peak]

then why bother effectively removing them from the drop table if the comparable options are already cheaper

just to make vorkath less profitable?

nobody is going to buy mantas at 2100 gold or whatever they end up being

you can't even earn them at an effective rate while skilling so it's not like you're boosting skilling profit

wowee they're really fixing the economy with this one

[tiny otter]

it's for the eventual method of fishing manta rays and sea turtles..surely

[chrome lantern]

I don't really see a point other than to screw ironmen over because I don't even want to use sharks compared to karambwans due to the attack delay, but they're replacing all the 22 heals with sharks and shark bait... and fishing sharks is already bait, if you know what I mean

[tiny otter]

it's forced processing which big shock mains barely do that to any great degree as if they did they'd be iron

[lament peak]

yeah like literally nobody is fishing shark unless you're going for the big shark, or you're desperate for xp/decent food and catching minnows (i doubt bait works here)

[tiny otter]

I'm still surprised mantas/turtles have no fishing method after all these years though

it's not like they are new

[ember token]

i'm more pointing out that people seem not to realize there's food that does the same but is cheaper

[tiny otter]

remove the supply entirely, introduce fishing method down the road, tada

[lament peak]

oh true, but dark crabs have become a pretty popular afk method lately

[lament peak]

quite possible with sailing

[ember token]

dark crabs and especially tuna potatoes both have much less volume than manta rays so you would think that they would tend to stay closer the prices of manta rays but nope

[zenith pike]

Monkey see monkey do

[tiny otter]

I didnt even know dark crabs existed until like 3years ago

funny how a fish that cannot be fished is traded more than 1 that can be

[lament peak]

pretty sure you can die with the contents of your fishing barrel and keep all the crabs, pretty neat

[ember token]

indeed

[ember token]

turtles actually do have fishing methods

drift net fishing and tempoross

[lament peak]

those don't count xD

[tiny otter]

not direct

and in pitiful amounts holy

[frail nebula]

did they ever clarify what exactly they're changing about the granite ring?

they said "bump its numbers up a little" and showed literally the exact same stats it has now

[ember token]

in the video the real stats are shown

50% increase to ranged def

[frail nebula]

oh so it's still completely useless

[ember token]

it'll be BIS ranged def

but generally useless

[frail nebula]

It could do with a mild strength bonus IMO

same with the warrior ring

[ember token]

yeah it even has a strength requirement to equip

[frail nebula]

bandos boots should also have a mild strength bonus too tbh

considering the bandos armor set was literally the melee strength set

[small anvil]

That's what guardian boots are for

[frail nebula]

I guess my thinking is like

why does the strength bonus not come from the strength bonus armor boss lol

granite ring could maybe occasionally have uses if it had a +2/+4 (when imbued) strength bonus

[ember token]

guardian boots have 3 str bonus, bandos boots could have 2 str bonus

[frail nebula]

yeah, that's really all I'm thinking

that'd be reasonable IMO

it's also weird that they never made bandos boots break down into bandosian components

[ember token]

you use guardian/echo boots for the defensive stats anyways and those are like double bandos boots

[frail nebula]

that'd be the easiest way to give them value

like let boots be dismantled for a single bandosian component

every armadyl armor piece can be dismantled for armadylean components

[compact flicker]

The only thing holding bandos top/bot prices right now is them being used for torva. Allowing the boots to do the same will only worsen it

[meager flame]

Thats probably ideal in some ways

[compact flicker]

And the boots already have their own upgrade path

[frail nebula]

is it a bad thing?

like

right now 1/3 of the drops is 100% worthless

[meager flame]

It would take the price of bandos for noobs down where it should be

[frail nebula]

would bandos boots having value take some value from the other pieces? yeah obviously

but it'd give you another drop at bandos that has a value

[meager flame]

And also make any bandos drop while farming more worthwhile

[frail nebula]

I don't see that as a bad thing

as it stands they are a dead drop

[compact flicker]

Not exactly bad, but there isn't exactly a need for that change either

[meager flame]

Like

[frail nebula]

the only reason they've been above alch price is because they were in the item sink

which jagex appears to have given up on with them

[meager flame]

The price of bandos is actually too high which sounds weird but

[frail nebula]

but the fact that they were in there at all suggested that they weren't happy with its place

[meager flame]

We creeped it so hard and also made better items than it

[frail nebula]

it's really not a significant upgrade over the already much cheaper blood moon gear

[meager flame]

It really shouldn't be worth anything tbh

[chrome lantern]

I don’t think Bandos is too high I think they balanced armor progression poorly

[meager flame]

Like

Its a super amazingly marginal upgrade over blood moon

It really shouldn't be as high as it is

[frail nebula]

arguably a sidegrade over blood moon

bandos for melee/ranged def

blood moon for magic def

same dps either way

[meager flame]

Torva is kind of just carrying the corpse of bandos lol

[chrome lantern]

In a world where there was a meaningful progression from torso to bandos to torva there would be room for blood moon to be worse than bandos aside from the set effect as it should be

[meager flame]

Which is good but

[compact flicker]

Progression is definitely in a weird spot atm

[meager flame]

Bandos boots should be components too

[frail nebula]

we're up to what, 6 +4 melee strength chest pieces now?

[meager flame]

Torva can spread the love a little bit

[frail nebula]

yeah I just find it fundamentally weird that bandos boots are useless

[chrome lantern]

Torso bandos oath blood yeah

[frail nebula]

torso, bandos, blood moon, oathplate, inq

[chrome lantern]

I mean really bandos boots should be +4 and dragon boots should be +3 str

[frail nebula]

why am I thinking there's a 6th

[frail nebula]

it is weird that the strength armor boss doesn't drop the strength boots in gwd

and they instead drop from random trash mobs outside the boss room

[hard axle]

Boots have the same garbage issue of too little space

Melee has plenty of room to buff up imo

[chrome lantern]

I mean it’s definitely not just boots yeah

[frail nebula]

could do something like buff bandos boots/its upgrade line to +4 strength, buff prims to +6, and then please all the mixed set haters by buffing avernic treads to +7

[chrome lantern]

Are there any gear slots other than weapons and amulet that actually have enough room to put meaningful upgrades anywhere other than up

In any style

Not upgrades but

You know

[frail nebula]

could be space for crush/stab bellator ring equivalents

[chrome lantern]

We have bandos-tier melee gear, black d’hide ranged gear, and nearly meaningless mage offhand differences

[lament peak]

i don't envy the people designing raids 4 rewards

[chrome lantern]

Mage and ranged str main armor pieces have little to no room between them

Which mean almost nothing unless shadow

[frail nebula]

there's even less room for magic gear thanks to the shadow passive crushing everything into a tiny range of bonuses

also side note but armadyl could totally get +1/+2/+1 ranged strength

[chrome lantern]

Also in a world three years after Masori released where Jagex has seemed to try to put out every midgame upgrade possible

[frail nebula]

then it'd be a meaningful step between the black d'hide tier of gear and masori

[chrome lantern]

We still don’t have any other ranged str armor yeah

[urban schooner]

The elidnis’ ward doesn’t need its drop rate tweaked. It needs a buff man. The item is beyond dead content

[chrome lantern]

I have owned an elidinis’ ward (f) since like a couple weeks after ToA release on my iron

Aside from barrage on heart hunt it’s almost never out of my bank

Before shadow it was big for me but that was contingent on a megarare arcane sigil

And it was only big because magic sucks before shadow

Then they made the mage’s book better than the unfortified ward in most cases, where 1% more dmg on ward does nothing

[urban schooner]

Dude big facts

[frail nebula]

Unfortified ward should match the fortified Ward's offensive stats

Just like unfortified masori

[lament peak]

requiring an item so outdated and rare to upgrade a modern day raid drop is crazy 😭

[frail nebula]

If it were just defensive bonuses like masori I'd be fine

[lament peak]

1/1365 from one of the slowest solo bosses in osrs

[frail nebula]

Which they ignored for the summer sweep up too

[meager flame]

i mean it honestly couldn't be any more clear what is happening

unfortunately someone that has a say is very stubborn

it doesn't make sense at all it should be changed

the changes are extremely slow and happen a little bit at a time because the opposition whoever or whatever group

just doesn't believe in it

but reason prevails slowly

[ember token]

theyre probably worried about devaluing people's accomplishments

[meager flame]

its the same thing that happened with contracts conceptually

obviously bad ideas just have a lot of support and people would rather die with the design than accept its not going to go well

and then we get changes anyways after people get mad

we really could and really should skip all of that

its not like you have to be some kind of genius or have to test it first to know these things aren't right

but when someone wants it bad enough we're forced through that cycle

[frail nebula]

See also PNM

They are ever so slowly accepting that its loot is a problem

But that problem has been blindingly obvious for years

And they're still only taking baby steps

At least Huey hasn't taken quite so long for them to realize it's completely pointless atm

And that the crafting levels for Huey armor were indeed insane

But even with all this, they still have to spoil things with the massive loot nerfs across the board

Where despite saying clearly at rune fest that loot would be redistributed, appears to just be removed

With no alternative sources out in place

It was definitely a dishonest representation of the drop table changes

The knowledge that I will just be perpetually starved for resources puts a massive damper on any excitement that I otherwise would feel for this set of changes

[ember token]

do your farm runs

[compact flicker]

<-- and my bank honestly has too many farming/herblore supplies

The nerf is justified, they need to just not overturne it

[frail nebula]

I do my farm runs

But you can't do farm runs without seeds

And access to key seeds is getting nerfed heavily

[compact flicker]

Farm runs > farm contracts > get more seeds > repeat > pvm on the side for extra supplies

[frail nebula]

This change is literally just "do 40% less pvm" for me

Which feels like absolute shit

[compact flicker]

It worked fine before muspah and the other new bosses that shoot out seeds, should work fine with a little nerf still

[frail nebula]

It's not a little nerf lol

It's a massive nerf

And then they put an incredibly patronizing and gaslighty paragraph in there about how irons shouldn't care

[compact flicker]

Are they removing the seed drops as a whole, or reducing the amount that drops each time?

[ember token]

reducing

[frail nebula]

Reducing them by around 40%

[compact flicker]

It's a little nerf then

[frail nebula]

40% is not a small nerf

[ember token]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vT5aIwPYJGCdUuO5rpNtYQE7FnERytSuj99zXkTBXf3XSIumSzjMQ9T1EXczWpMPZsRyZAcezWaQc6t/pubhtml#

[compact flicker]

One drop shouldn't supply you for multiple runs the way it currently does, only assist with supplying you

[frail nebula]

Except they went in the opposite direction years ago

And stuck with it for years

[compact flicker]

Then I suggest you start killing bosses before the nerf and supply yourself for a long time, which is fairly easy at the moment

[frail nebula]

If they want to suddenly change all this to force irons to just do less pvm

Then that's a choice that needs serious thought

Not just "lol stop worrying you silly irons"

[slender vapor]

Torstols are the only seed I'm worried about. Since demand has never been higher and toa is one of the very few sources of it

[frail nebula]

"you may have less fun but it's worth it for the economy"

[compact flicker]

All in all I believe you are overreacting, and it's best to wait for the actual numbers after they go over the feedback they get from the proposal

[frail nebula]

I'd like to see them move more seeds to stuff like farming contracts

[compact flicker]

Otherwise you are still in time to camp pvm as it currently is and supply yourself plentiful before the nerf

[tiny otter]

which are also getting nerfed

[frail nebula]

Id be willing to bet that they don't make a single change

[lament peak]

Yeah, I'm going to stop using combat pots so frivilously now. Idk how I'm going to recoup my torstol stack

[nocturne solstice]

So the 40% nerf was for TOA and Dwarf Weed for Cox. Just looking at it though that means the new quantities should be
Toadflax 36 -> 21
Ranarr 28 -> 16
Torstol 23 -> 13
Snapdragon 23 -> 13

And there's still also the 3 rolls thing so you might get multiple

[frail nebula]

They have it in their heads that this is needed for mains to feel excited when a seed drops

So they aren't going to be deterred, I fear

[slender vapor]

13 torstol seeds is still 91 super combats

You'll get more than 1 drop in 91 runs at least

So toa is still supplying surplus super combats

Just not 161 per drop anymore

[frail nebula]

So do a ton more ToA, which will also no longer give purples

But at least it's easier?

[chilly portal]

Gotta get purples first

[small anvil]

Purples get in the way of seeds

[frail nebula]

Oh yeah I was lucky enough to spoon most things from toa already

I feel bad for later irons who will get locked out of fangs for a while

[tiny otter]

dw I'll send toa with the group this week get all the fangs

[frail nebula]

Gonna try to help my iron friend get his fang before toa loot is eviscerated

[lament peak]

we have 2 fangs but no rings so prob sending some toa after we finish yama (soon hopefully)

[frail nebula]

Hopefully I can get a decent supply of herb seeds in the meantime

Before the great supply purge

Maybe the chaps to finish masori if I'm lucky

Or shadow if I am approximately twice as lucky

[slender vapor]

I still want the ring

Might send toa hard for a few weeks

[tiny otter]

what even is eldrich on the list or am I dumb

[icy relic]

I am so stoked to double soulflame horn hally kree with my buddy

[slender vapor]

My goal is 1k torstol seeds before toa nerf

Hopefully 7-9k super combats lasts me long enough to start using torstols on anti venom and spec pots

Jagex really did needlessly restrict torstols, and then over dumped them from toa and muspah

[tiny otter]

I wonder how many possible torstols my group has, not that we can make them yet

[icy relic]

not happy with that yeah

esp since torstols are used for so much endgame shit

meanwhile dwarf weeds

[tiny otter]

T O A D F L A X

[slender vapor]

Torstols are 100% a problem seed. They're too much from toa and muspah, but way too little from others

Surely a few other bosses could have some tossed on their table

[tiny otter]

cerb because..why not

[icy relic]

torstols should be rarer but herblore needs to curve out better

too many underutilized high tier herbs

[ember token]

typo, eldric

royal titan

[tiny otter]

oh, guess I've never called it by the real name tbh

just..titans

[nocturne solstice]

It does seem like they're adding more use for higher tier herbs like torstol for surge

[frail nebula]

Adding more uses and removing sources

[icy relic]

needing torstols for super cb, antivenom, and surge and then cutting the supply of torstols is a slap in the face for irons

[tiny otter]

do you even use surges?

[icy relic]

yes, every 5 mins on the dot

[frail nebula]

Dude think about how excited a main will be to see a torstol seed drop for like 50k

[nocturne solstice]

I mean, like Fluffy said, it's still like 91 super combats? It's less but it's not a catastrophe

[icy relic]

even more frequently if I'm house teleing

[nocturne solstice]

iirc people keep a 1 dose for verzik tob? I havent heard much on its usage though tbh

[icy relic]

ngl torstol seeds were 200k in rs2

that shit was hype

[frail nebula]

Except they were expensive because they never dropped

So it wasn't actually much hype

[icy relic]

they dropped from qbd

[frail nebula]

Ah, I quit before qbd

[tiny otter]

qbd dropped full brews

[slender vapor]

Ngl, make elite herb contracts with 95 req, shove torstols in there

Problem solved

[icy relic]

QBD before EoC was some incredible content

zulrah could never

[slender vapor]

Let us source good seeds and torstols from farming contracts

[meager flame]

torstols used to actually be a good drop

[slender vapor]

Hard contracts give a tiny pittance of torstols