game-update

[tacit pendant]

Switching to right style was never difficult while plugins are allowed

[vivid ruin]

I only wish they nerfed white ball phase a bit. The rest was fine lol

[gaunt kestrel]

they did^

[slender vapor]

Continuous Uncoloured Masses phase was my favourite part

[vivid ruin]

Ik

[formal sentinel]

I'd say either having a minimum def that sticks through the invo levels would be a nice compromise that keeps Jagex's desire for capping def reduction, but also making it not shit there.
Like Baba has 80 def, which can be reduced to 60. At 300 raid level, it's 176, which can be reduced to 156. Make it so you can reduce to 60 regardless of raid level.
That should also help get rid of the "Higher invos become more of a slog" issues people complain about.

Or at least have it scale. Like if Ba-Ba's def goes up +120% from 80 to 176, minimum def should have the same +120% from the 60 instead of -20 from the 176 (for 132, or max reduction of 44)

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah I'm fine with that

Encourages not soloing higher invos too

Although with horn the def reductioh is too easy

[formal sentinel]

Does surge pot reset between ToA rooms? IIRC it doesn't for ToB

[rain fulcrum]

Probably

[pliant haven]

WHy is the horn being neglected…

Pisses me off

[rain fulcrum]

Because the raid timer is ticking between tooms

[vivid ruin]

Gegix buff horn

[rain fulcrum]

I mean it ticks the timer

Not reset

[vivid ruin]

Plea gegix

[pliant haven]

@fading token buff horn DUMMY

[tacit pendant]

Give us the dclaws we were promised!

Dont ping ash lmao

[rain fulcrum]

gnome monkey freaking out about veng because toa will reset your stats at the end of the room is so funny

[gaunt kestrel]

he is active in oldschool chat rn

[vivid ruin]

Not necessary

[pliant haven]

@winged ledge sirs do something. Can the dev do something.

Horn stinks

[gaunt kestrel]

so i guess it is fair game

well

mb not @jagex l0l

[oblique mesa]

Huh - didn't think bank space was such spaghetti code

[final frigate]

cooldown keeps ticking yeah

[austere mulch]

Sorry, this makes too much sense to do

[austere mulch]

More the data storage piece of it than anything

They’ve talked about it a few times before

Last bank space expansion required some engine work iirc

[errant dawn]

God please do not nerf TOA Purple drop rate.... I just got my first purple (a ward) after 107 raids mostly 250-265 invocation with some experts and after that experience I never want to go back. Sure, the answer is do higher invocations, but when you're getting stuck a lot of the time because you don't already have a fang, that's a problem. That problem would only be worse with nerfed rates. The rates there need buffed NOT nerfed.

[tough nacelle]

This just isn't true

[slender vapor]

If toa had less stat bloat, fang wouldn't be such a crippling weapon not to have

[tough nacelle]

Bad RNG happens

But the rates are too high

[gaunt kestrel]

i understand your frustration

but the drop rate is simply overtuned

[tough nacelle]

Dang being mandatory sucks

[gaunt kestrel]

that's like objectively true

[tough nacelle]

Fang*

[errant dawn]

Maybe at high invos but at low invos they are HORRIBLE

[tough nacelle]

They're high

[gaunt kestrel]

they're high, even at low invo

[tough nacelle]

At 260 it's the highest in the game

[gaunt kestrel]

esp for the skill requried to do the raid

[tough nacelle]

It's higher than cox and tob

[slender vapor]

Toa has too much defense, fang is basically mandatory

[tough nacelle]

Your issue is you need fang

Which should have been a quest reward and only worked in the raid

The reality is you went dry

It sucks

It happens

[errant dawn]

Then lower defense across the board there. Having the rates lowered without a fang as is would make me never go back.

[gaunt kestrel]

that would be ideal

but jagex

[tough nacelle]

It's not a fun place for irons no fang

I went 130 before my fang

I did 350s with a hasta

And it sucked

[kindred owl]

Skill issues everywhere

[tough nacelle]

I believe you

But the rate is generally too high vs other raids,

Defence is too high too

But that's a problem with invos

[errant dawn]

Well that needs to be addressed before the rates are cut then at the very least. The fang being mandatory as is for stepping into higher invos is just terrible design imo.

[tough nacelle]

100% agree but shadow is also required

[formal sentinel]

Giving base Keris Partisan the reroll accuracy check of Fang, only when you're inside the raid, but not the reroll enemy def effect Fang gets in the raid would cover that I think

[tough nacelle]

Toa has many issues for irons

[vivid ruin]

L irons

[tough nacelle]

Masori is dead useless gear,

For irons

[errant dawn]

I'd be fine grinding for a shadow at 350-400 invos but those invos are horrible for someone without a fang for sure.

[tough nacelle]

Fang is required to progress the raid

And not that useful elsewhere

Shadow is overtuned and tied to the raid

[gaunt kestrel]

masori dead useless for irons might be the wildest statement

[tough nacelle]

Lightbearer and fang are realistically the only two good items for irons

[slender vapor]

Until you have Tbow, masori doesn't mean much

[tough nacelle]

Can't use d darts on bp

Tbow is too rare

[slender vapor]

You use bowfa

[tough nacelle]

Bowfa is the iron weapon

Nex is also too rare

Masori isn't really used on an iron the same way other endgame armour sets are

Toa is not fun for an iron dry on fang/shadow

[gaunt kestrel]

until you get past the bofa portion anyways

[tough nacelle]

That's just luck tbh

[gaunt kestrel]

thats the entire ironman gamemode fwiw

[slender vapor]

Just choose to spoon a tbow

[tough nacelle]

If you go 2x dry on tbow

You will never get one for 99.99999% of players

[gaunt kestrel]

you could also be those 1k points doing solo for diary and spoon a bow

xdd

[zenith spoke]

where can i post game update suggestions?

[tough nacelle]

That's why I say masori is dead for irons

[gaunt kestrel]

i mean it may not be relevant for your progression at the moment

but yes ikwym

[tough nacelle]

For mains it's great

[frail bough]

#1022203837265756231

[gaunt kestrel]

i assume all irons if they play the game long enough will go to cox

[tough nacelle]

I got very spooned the masori set

[tough nacelle]

And then they deiron when they realize how shit it is or burn out 😂😂😂

[gaunt kestrel]

yea wcyd

choreman mode

[tough nacelle]

But yeah I wish fang was less important

For toa runs

But not sure that'll change

[zenith spoke]

ty

[tough nacelle]

Playing with fang vs without is night and day lol

[slender vapor]

Toa without fang is a sick joke

With fang, it feels like you're cheating

[tough nacelle]

Yeahhhh

Yellow keris too

Seems dumb they're straight RNG for irons

Whereas cox you don't NEED anything from the raid for completions

Especially now with giant prayers

It should help though with baba nerf and akka changes

[fading token]

I saw your suggestions about it in the other channel where I replied to you, actually - thanks for your clear passion about the item being updated, though 🙂

[slender vapor]

I'd still prefer stat deflation and leave the mechanics just as 'difficult'

Maybe tone back the 1 shots

[pliant haven]

😝 thanks king

[hard axle]

It’s definitely a balance because I know people don’t like one shots or near one shots for messing up, which is why toa is so rancid

[rare grotto]

yo ash the BONE CROSSBOW community is forever indebted to you. Will there be a look at zebak's hp/def scaling at toa as well, it's a bit of a slog considering best accuracy u can get there is just a bit under 75%

[slender vapor]

Please look at the tank stats of toa in general

[sacred cove]

If fang is that important for toa, hopefully the change is not too severe. Have not done toa..

[slender vapor]

More than just zebak needs stat removal

[rare grotto]

with fang and shadow's accuracy kephri/zebak/akkha/warden you're fairly accurate on them

there's nothing u can do at zebak

but still agree it needs to be taken a look at in general

[frail nebula]

just woox walk zebak with a fang /s

[rare grotto]

it doesn't have to be tob 0 defence accurate but also not 70% accurate

and that's being generous as well

[cloud iron]

What an insane slap in the face to everyone that worked hard for GM. Why would there be improvements for master tier and not GM?

[rare grotto]

base shadow accuracy on zeb in a 545 is like 61%

😭

[slender vapor]

It's directly for GM players

So they don't lose max thralls every update

[hard axle]

Infinite zuk attempts did counteract it a bit

[frail nebula]

it should actually go up a decent bit with the delve boss

since you can use the new wand's spec to lower zebak's magic def

[austere mulch]

We get free inferno speedruns, so there’s that at least

[hard axle]

but yes, I do agree that GM tier does need more qol shit

[austere mulch]

For those who don’t enjoy that tho, gg

[hard axle]

Whether it’s for speedrunning or pet hunting

[rare grotto]

reducing mdef is not as effective as u think

0 mdef is really good, but arguably better to spend that spec on ZCBs

[hard axle]

Not 100% accuracy, no?

[frail nebula]

zebak's magic level isn't very high

but he has a very high magic def

[sacred cove]

Maybe decrease the drop rate of fang/lightbarer after the first drops?

[austere mulch]

Gm should let horn work with claws as polled

[frail nebula]

unfortunately no

[austere mulch]

And give 2x bolt effect chance

[rare grotto]

yes but reducing mdef by 20 doesn't affect dps as much

[frail nebula]

it's something though

plus avernic treads and confliction gauntlets

[rare grotto]

yes and ppl have calced it and ur still starved for accuracy

[frail nebula]

shadow's definitely going to be better there after the delve boss

[hard axle]

Confliction doesn’t work with shadow and damage is capped out

[frail nebula]

confliction gloves have more accuracy

passive aside

likewise with the boots

you do just get some more stats

[rare grotto]

yes and u still have dogshit accuracy

[hard axle]

relatively minor from what I can tell

[rare grotto]

but zeb stats are egregiously high

[frail nebula]

agreed on them being egregiously high

[rare grotto]

not to mention you're not supposed to be maging it in the first place. Ranged is supposed to be good there but even in full bis, max def reduction it's like 74% accuracy

i feel like allowing us to reduce it for -30/-40 def would help a ton

or whatever the person above suggested, allowing us to reduce it to the base defence

[tacit pendant]

Damage cap isnt a thing btw

[frail nebula]

it's +13 magic accuracy, or +52 when accounting for the shadow passive in toa, it's not nothing

[rare grotto]

relatively minor

eg u barely notice it

shadow suffers from hella diminishing returns on accuracy as is

[tacit pendant]

98 > 98.1 accurate

[frail nebula]

lol not at zebak at high invo

[tacit pendant]

You prob right

[frail nebula]

looks like it's basically like 58% to 61% accuracy

[hard axle]

It may shift from like 60 to 65

ah

[frail nebula]

60 to 65 would actually be a very good boost

[tacit pendant]

The eye spec is notably bad, it and accursed sceptre combined will be like ok but use so much spec

[frail nebula]

58 to 61 on its own is already a 7.5% dps boost

just from the accuracy of the confliction gauntlets and avernic treads

[hard axle]

I’ll see how it feels, but god I want delve more than I want Yama

[frail nebula]

all I'm saying is not to sleep on the bonus stats

they're better than you might think

not really good enough to make zebak great

but I'd hardly call a 7.5% dps increase insignificant

[rare grotto]

the issue is you're in pisslow accuracy so room variance is way too high

and the room is low skill ceil

so ur just stuck hitting the boss at 65% accuracy

for 4-5 minutes straight

[frail nebula]

well sure, as I said, it's not going to drastically change things

but that's an appreciable dps increase IMO

[rare grotto]

well not really because ranged is still better

and ranged is dogshit

its like saying fang zebak got better with rancour

like yes but the room still sucks

[formal sentinel]

Just gotta Horn -> Orb -> Surge Pot -> Accursed (with a partner of course)

[hard axle]

this is actually why I want them to make it 100% guaranteed accuracy

because mdef reduction is capped at 0

(which it fucking shouldn't be at 0)

[frail nebula]

yeah that is weird

[hard axle]

(cap it at -30)

[austere mulch]

Does it still use 100% lol

[hard axle]

50%!

my malding worked week 1

[austere mulch]

Progress* at least

[frail nebula]

watch it increase an enemy's magic def if they already have less than 0

[rare grotto]

eye functioning like bgs (1 dmg reduces 1 mdef) is what just makes it worse than zcb

should be 1:2 or 1:3 even if they want it to see use

better off doing seercul -> 2x zcb at high invo OD on

[formal sentinel]

Could be similar to Ralos, lower their mage def bonus by a % of their reg def level

That maybe work?

[rare grotto]

% was my suggestion too

[hard axle]

dont fucking jinx it

[frail nebula]

dude you know it's gonna happen

[hard axle]

you know this shit has and will happened before

[formal sentinel]

I like the Ralos idea because of how it works the combat triangle in

[hard axle]

[hard axle]

yeah, eye should've been 25% max if not gauranteed accuracy

[frail nebula]

really though the absolute limit should be what

[woven rain]

Where is my fucking ether update

[frail nebula]

-64?

[hard axle]

yes

-64 is basically always hit

even -5 is like a 10% dps boost

[frail nebula]

oh well

[hard axle]

its exponential below 0

[frail nebula]

at least the eye is good as a normal weapon

[hard axle]

the entire problem with eye and defense reduction in general

[frail nebula]

even if the spec is absolutely an afterthought

[hard axle]

is that they rely on the existing stats fucking

not being shit

cuz imagine hitting bgs on a 500 defense + 500 slash res monster that is melee-only

like ???

[tacit pendant]

Mage def already has a really high static variable, it could be 100% reduction and still not used everywhere

[rare grotto]

yeah exactly, i feel like u need to release a maul-equivalent first before coming up with bgs

even if it is guaranteed, ud only use it at a place with high mdef, and then u need to invest a lot of spec into eye before it actually becomes good to use

[frail nebula]

what if the seercull spec actually worked with ranged strength improvements

like prayers and gear

rather than scaling on literally just ranged level and ammo

[hasty shard]

we already have the niche of 100% accuracy magic spec

[formal sentinel]

Yeah but if it's a % of their reg def level, like Ralos and mage level, plus allows you to put it into the negative, it would be good I think

[rare grotto]

well it would be better

😂

[tacit pendant]

I think jmods said its like not possible in current code to go negative, i could be wrong

[hasty shard]

i have been bringing seercull to yama

[formal sentinel]

You can't go negative levels

IDK about bonuses

[tacit pendant]

Is it good?

[hasty shard]

like uh .1-.2 more dps if it lands

[tacit pendant]

Range switches for acc?

Ew

[formal sentinel]

cause some monsters have negative bonuses stock

[hasty shard]

seercull doesnt scale with switches

[tacit pendant]

Ill sgs or volly at that point

[hasty shard]

so its just a 1 way

unless you want to bring range pot

[tacit pendant]

I see

[hasty shard]

doesnt even scale with rigour iirc

[tacit pendant]

I dont seercull at toa so idk anything about silly bow

[hard axle]

WUH

[tacit pendant]

A seercull upgrade component

[hard axle]

you know what I'd really wouldn't mind. 100% acc, 50% mdef, but you need to be in melee distance.

The spec would be lightning-based and we shall call it "static field"

(iykyk)

[tacit pendant]

Best we could do is death charge now reduces mage defense of the slain enemy

[wooden harbor]

dunno what made them think making baba brain off, no prayer swapping, just clicking boss and going to rubble each time would be healthy for the raid

like 5:1 exists and is a good example of emergent gameplay that would be getting removed

[hard axle]

because catering to billybobs is more important

[wooden harbor]

baba becomes more brainoff than zebak 💀

[hard axle]

baba is literally an afk boss if you proc blood fury above average

im not kidding

[wooden harbor]

yea bf face tanking also works really well in 500s

but if u wanted to minmax, 5:1 always worked

[hard axle]

if we're going to make melee 0 chip damage, add some fucking mage/range

like scurrius

[tacit pendant]

5:1 isnt super hard to begin with

[hard axle]

or redesign the room

[wooden harbor]

people complaining about the 6t red x is so weird
like its the same as doing 1:0 olm... yes its braindead but theres better methods to make it faster and better

[hard axle]

We have people bitching that donofly is skill-less

[tacit pendant]

Just give baba the nex jump fuck it

[hard axle]

in this very channel

and that they want mage-camping to be meta

[tacit pendant]

I mean, that person has generally bad takes on everything, consistently so

Grain of salt

[hasty shard]

i thought it was dumb at first but then i remembered its an entry level raid 😌

ape brain content for ape brains

tank and spank is v funny though they should still have something happen

[tacit pendant]

Toa being less infuriating is a win for me. Its already the ez raid and was designed to funnel players to more pvm

[hasty shard]

mb something like baba also hitting sarcophagi when attacking you

so u gotta move around a bit so they dont break open

[hard axle]

im fine with that, but i really really really really really hope

they pull through with the drop rate rework

especially if they upped the tax to 2%

[civic ginkgo]

They want our opinion on drop rates, someone pointed out that it should be ward<LB<fang which makes sense

[formal sentinel]

I want mage + melee combo to be more viable without needing to dono P3
Not because I think it's skill-less, but because I find it hard to get practice in and learn, and I think mage/melee seems intended, & should be abit more encouraged

[tacit pendant]

Drop rework is imo the more inportant thing by a large margin

[hard axle]

[tacit pendant]

I would be down to dono while you mage later. If melee forces tank its really a pretty great method

[formal sentinel]

Man, I would kill for a 4-room sized room in PoH where you could place a stationary or chasing infinite HP mob of any size, so you could practice stuff like Dono and GWD strats with the actual click box

[hard axle]

I'm really hoping they look into tob rewards as well because those are relatively shit compared to either other raids

[hasty shard]

it also just looks cool

mage hitting the orbs that are being spam spawned

[civic ginkgo]

Especially since in a lot of ways, TOB is more difficult

[hard axle]

rapier should've been the original fang

or fuse fang + rapier for 8 more str bonus idk

[hasty shard]

swap the two

[hard axle]

[formal sentinel]

Oh for sure. I also want to melee, and have been doing melee p1/p2, mage p3 in duos, cause I can't dono rn, and no mage partner wants to deal with the rapid orb spawning.

I'd be down to pair for mage/melee later with you dono-ing tho. Unfortunatly am at work for quite some time still

[tacit pendant]

Goose u shadow or pstaff?

[formal sentinel]

pstaff

[tacit pendant]

Im off work in 6 hours time

I can bring accursed if its any help for the pstaff

[formal sentinel]

5 hours for me, but gotta help my lil brother with car stuff, so probably another 2 1/2 after that

I got accursed too

[keen reef]

when are TOA changes active?

anyone know?

[tacit pendant]

Sounds good shoot me a message

[formal sentinel]

Mager should really use the accursed, so melee can just send Emberlight specs IMO

[tacit pendant]

Toa changes this summer

[keen reef]

So, it's not live yet?

[civic ginkgo]

Nope

End of July someone said

But can't confirm

[formal sentinel]

Not like magers use specs as much as melee at Yama anyways (other than Purging which doesn't count cause free)

[hasty shard]

accursed

also seercull

[formal sentinel]

Accursed is good for solo mage, duo mage, and mage + Melee duo

it's like a 5% DPS increase for me on mage solos lmao

[tacit pendant]

I had a mager veng other me during donfly once lmao

[last onyx]

So what sup with the fang prices

Are they gonna go more up than 20m?

[frail bough]

they are going to be 1.2b each

[last onyx]

Lol

XD

[tacit pendant]

Fang would still be worth at 1bil lol

[last onyx]

Nah fr

Someone got like indicate how much they could get

[tacit pendant]

Esp if more stab content comes

[last onyx]

Yeah thats true

If Anny does know more hit me up

[vernal valve]

OG fang? not wrong. Current fang? a bit much, lol

[tacit pendant]

Itd be better than torva at 1bil

[vernal valve]

ehhhhhh, weapons are basically always more "worth" as individual upgrades than armor is

i don't think torva vs fang is a reasonable price comparison

[last onyx]

So you all think its gonna be more worth than 50m?

Or at least somewhere close to that

[tacit pendant]

I would hope 50 mil tbh

[vernal valve]

i heavily doubt it, but we don't know how rates will settle

we don't even know how exactly they're changing droprates

like, at all

[last onyx]

Hmm

[tacit pendant]

Its not fair, and thats kinda my point

Torva is giga inflated for its value compared to masori and anc, of course. But fang is bis and 2nd bis at a lot of places. I don't want it to be 1bil, but plenty would buy it at that

Youd have to ask the homies if they chose to have a fang or have a scythe however

[last onyx]

Lol id be so happy if fang would hit 200m

Could finally upgrade some good gear

[trail beacon]

Fang will take a long long time to reach 50m+ there are a fuck ton of toa bots and also a fuck ton of them in the game already

[tacit pendant]

I would be happy with fang at bowfa prices, not 1 bil

[hard axle]

yeah drop rate changes will be the main thing

[vernal valve]

It's not really BIS or 2nd BIS in that many bosses, though. Just usable in a good amount.

[last onyx]

You can use fang everywere

[hard axle]

exactly

[tacit pendant]

Toa, nex, corp, and then very useable a lot of places. Likely best any new stab boss

[last onyx]

Nex is weaknagainstnfang

Toa

Corp

Vorkath

Also

Cox too

[tacit pendant]

We could easily be looking at the 2023 scythe convo, where next year fang gets 4 new stab bosses

Or we could not, jagex works in mysterious ways

[vernal valve]

Nex/Toa/Corp is basically the list, yeah. Other than that, most of its other use cases are mostly notable because of how cheap it is.

[last onyx]

Vorkath also

[vernal valve]

Like yeah, it's good against vorkath/hydra, but that's much less relevant when it's like, the same price as Lance instead of 20% of its price

[last onyx]

Lance only good when ur att is 90

[tacit pendant]

I agree with you mostly, those first 2 places are very relevant though

[vernal valve]

I will say that future Stab content is relevant, yeah. I just mean in the current game

[tacit pendant]

I think were on the same page mostly. My 1 bil statement was extreme lol

[last onyx]

Extreme is good sometimes

[vernal valve]

lance vs fang is weird bc lance scales way harder with stats/gear, fang is a very good weapon with dog stats/gear

but that's a different plate of cookies

[vernal valve]

yeah that's basically all I was saying, lol

[last onyx]

Iknow but fang compared to Lance on 80 att is big difference

[tacit pendant]

Its still mostly true. People buy elys still

Less useful and 700m. I dont want fang that rare, its a great addition to the game for busting open old content with shitty stats

And honestly with stab content coming, id like it to be 0 def-able and rapier

[inland hazel]

I really hope they take a look at rapier, it doesn't have any use cases. It's not a common drop from tob and doesn't even really have a niche for itself

[tacit pendant]

Rapier is a cheap core weapon ig

[fossil epoch]

raids having boring drops that get outscaled seems fine, they still have som banger drops

[hasty shard]

wait a sec i gotta check something

[inland hazel]

fang just does it better

and is cheaper

[formal sentinel]

Also Saeldor. Being tied to Bowfa on a 1:1 ratio kills it.

Making Bowfa require X enhanced seeds, with Saeldor only requiring 1, then upping the seed drop rate (1/400 -> divide 400 by X) to keep the same # of average kc to get a Bowfa would work

[tacit pendant]

He was shadow camping while i meleed, full orb skip everyphase

Does venge work on orbs hitting you?

[hasty shard]

ok damn i was checking if purging spec doesnt clear sbs

it does clear it

wouldve been kinda huge if it did

[tacit pendant]

The meleer has to purge if p3 goes too long

[sacred oracle]

unexpected merch

[cloud iron]

Did it? What is the benefit of doing Zuk again btw? I have 50+ kc there. I didn't get GM to do pointless Zuk kc, I did it for the benefits which have now been moved to a different tier.

[hard axle]

reduced pet chance, but much faster runs

off-task

and u can do certain strats easier

zooming overall is better than standing there waiting for tbow to not noodle

[tacit pendant]

Speed runners happy. Maybe i shouldnt say the word speed run here tho

[frail bough]

Also someone pointed out ?fluffy? that you get the benefit of not losing the perk you worked for immediately after new CA's come out.

That said, maintaining master after getting it is sort of just a given so idk

[inland hazel]

I'll def stand by the fact that rapier needs looked at
It doesn't have a place currently, and it needs something for it to stand apart
considering it's a raid drop, and not common from the raid. It's rarity and usefulness don't line up

[tacit pendant]

All tier 80s could stand for a 2-6str buff. Rapier and mace need content, sally can be deleted, we have halberd

[hard axle]

please, give it a 3t spec that refunds on kill and min hit

[tacit pendant]

Purging rapier goes brr

[frail bough]

that actually would be so sick

[tacit pendant]

Instead it will just get vls spec and stats

And model

And name....

[hard axle]

that alone would make it so busted for nylos

and people would love it

instead 3x in price

instant

[tacit pendant]

Really interested in where harm goes. Were getting 20% faster killtime but it is more useful as an item

[frail bough]

I'm actually stoked to try pnm and see how it feels

[tacit pendant]

I might go pick up my tablet this weekend

[tiny epoch]

pnm owns

[tacit pendant]

I got spooned an eldritch orb and never went back

[tiny epoch]

been saying for ages they should remove a phase but never thought they would

[tacit pendant]

Now just make it teams 🙂

[frail bough]

Phase removal was the drop rate increase i never knew i needed, or wanted.

[tacit pendant]

Phase removal is a great change

Solves alot. Arguably not enough to the drop rates. But at the same time some are already against making shit more common

[frail bough]

Yeah it's definitely a '1 lever at a time' situation as to not over do it

they updated rates, they are still meh
they are updating phase, to be determined how good it feels

[tacit pendant]

As it is today, its very much worthwhile for mains to do. All the uniques hold dece value.

The armor and harm are too important in style specific weakness design space to not be relevant in future content eventually. So making irons lifes a little easier here is good

Unrelated. Making surge pots is kinda cracked xp?

I wonder how many i need to be setup for life

[tiny epoch]

also unrelated i really hope the baba change is rolled back 😩

[vestal ruin]

[tiny epoch]

https://youtu.be/_lpYMAU9kBk

[rare grotto]

a bit offtopic but rs3 literally had some game health changes announced 2 days ago

and of course ironmen complained

here's a funny highlighted statement from jmod

it's true af but ppl are so much in denial :shrug:

[tough nacelle]

too many drops on bosse smakes iron boring anyways

shouldnt keep those drops there

[tender harness]

Baba nerf is fine
Toa sucks in general not just baba

Crash out more i guess

why should people have to learn red X for a shit boss in a shit piece of content?

[tacit pendant]

Baba nerf is fine, this video addresses solo issues, raids should be teams

[hearty yoke]

Is the double ash drop in Chasm of Fire broken? Seems like I'm getting it when I shouldn't... 🤔

[rare grotto]

well for one, it's not even required

ppl just do it cause they're :dentge:

[tender harness]

not saying its required but to have a crash out over baba nerfs

is legit

[rare grotto]

reducing one of the raids' boss to giant mole level of difficulty is a head scratcher regardless

[tacit pendant]

Toa being set up for solos was a mistake and makes the raid less fun for teams due to a lack of actual team mechanics, see tob

[unique burrow]

The problem with baba nerfs is that they're not adding anything new.

[rare grotto]

there is no world where a boss should do 0 damage with 1 style only

like there's no prayer flicking

u pray melee and boss cannot kill you

[tacit pendant]

Most common death from baba is and will be gap lmao, then rocks

Yeah that wasnt a crash out at all

[unique burrow]

Baba being perma step-under / red-x is uninteresting and boring, the same way that akkha being butterfly only at high invos is lame.

[rare grotto]

too old for inferno? xd

[fossil epoch]

I for sure think jagex has done too much to help irons not have to grind their own shit.
Usually if you have to grind a lot of supplies, it will make content faster, at the cost of having done the requirements for those supplies.
Thats often just skipped now, and you can go infinite.
We do have things like d darts, and other dragon ammo, where its not really feasable to use them, and there is no very slow method to make them should i run out, thats just done by camping a boss

[tacit pendant]

Butterfly not as lame as 5:1 and 6:0 are

[tough nacelle]

Reality is irons today just play clog mains

And they lose their mind to it

[rare grotto]

5:1 is the "hardest" method in toa

maybe perfect swarming is harder

[hard axle]

bloat flies are the most common death

[tacit pendant]

Yes, and non-learners arent dying at all

And when they do its rock or gap flubs

Nobody dying from baba melees

[rare grotto]

https://youtu.be/kipxteL_5wg?feature=shared&t=107 this is 5:1 baba

very different from red x baba afk

[tacit pendant]

See rocks

[rare grotto]

entered room with 101 hp and ended on 64 btw

[tacit pendant]

Just give baba the nex jump unless he hits you every x ticks. Keeps 5:1, deletes red x

[rain depot]

Summer Sweep Up will be very impactful and doesn't have a survey, would be nice to have one to submit feedback. Feels like a way of submitting feedback that actually has a chance of being acknowledged, rather than pot luck if it gets seen on social media (and who wants to use the cesspit that is Twitter?)

[civic ginkgo]

I hope it doesn't get a survey

[tacit pendant]

Like if no melee attack have hit in the last 35 ticks, baba jumps. Thats the red x nerf

[ember grove]

I think a survey would be useful so I can yell at them for still being stupidly overcautious about nightmare

the actual fight is fine and very skill-testing, it's everything else about it that sucks

[civic ginkgo]

I wouldn't mind if PNM was the same, but the Tele was dropped at 1kc

[tender harness]

imagine just digging up random shit to try to discredit someone

as you put it "Why do you have to be such an ass to a fellow player who is passionate about a part of the game.."
fucking pot calling kettle black

[chrome lantern]

PNM still needs like twice as common uniques after being made 30% faster

Even more for orbs

[rain fulcrum]

Instead of scaling ToA drop rates with invo, have ToA defense scale down with invo

Enable all the mechanics and get a faster raid

[tacit pendant]

I would rather have these toa changes than not have them, but it all could be better

[tough nacelle]

lol

issue is then theres no learning

enjoy 2h raids for low level gear

[tender harness]

better option is to just nuke TOA from orbit

[sacred oracle]

Make Key Master Teleport Scrolls tradeable, in line with other Teleport scrolls.

[vestal ruin]

I go offline for 12 hours and big gameupdate post happens D:

[ember grove]

cap the rewards at like 350 invo and leave everything else for challenge runs and CAs, the loot issue is 100% with mass 500s

then swap the rarity of the fang and the ward and ignore the irons mad about it

[vestal ruin]

so many proposed changes! some of these look really good

Darn.... I should go do a TOA and try and snag fang before (if) they change rate

[ember grove]

they haven't decided what they're doing yet so you have time still

[sacred oracle]

i'm not sure i'm even half way through the blog yet

chonky post

[tender harness]

they'll be like voidwaker
decide to do 1 thing
community cries
revert change
and leave it again

[sacred oracle]

oh wait i'm at the end lol

[vestal ruin]

I like the idea of shorter phosanis but same rate

someone I think suggested that in here the other day before the post too haha

[ember grove]

I don't, the boss needs much more than that

the fight being long isn't a real issue

[rain fulcrum]

Ppl saying you need a fang to do ToA r forgetting that post change baba is afk and you could probably get by with partisan on kephri

[obsidian venture]

@tender harness it’s basically because it makes the boss more afk than zebak, which is another issue

[vestal ruin]

I would say thats the main issue I have with it personally, what do you think the bigger issue is?

[sacred oracle]

The Grandmaster Combat Achievement reward that increases the duration of summoned Thralls to 2 minutes will be moved down to Master. This is probably the reward that feels the most impactful and the most frustrating of the rewards to lose on a new release, so we'd like to bump it down to alleviate frustrations from GM players and make something that feels impactful just a smidge more attainable.
fuck, does this mean i have to get master now

[tender harness]

I mean as a starting point shorter phosanis is fine
will have to see how the numbers work out with drops after that

[tender harness]

makes sense

[sacred oracle]

i've been putting off master forreeever

it's not infeasible for me, just annoying lol

[rain fulcrum]

I don't get the hate for red x

[obsidian venture]

Red X isn’t really needed till maybe 450+

[rain fulcrum]

It's like the only tech in the entire raid

[obsidian venture]

And an engaging form of red X is the 5:1

[rain fulcrum]

Let's remove necking bloat too it's too many clicks imo

[analog crow]

At least they can go ham on the gm cas now

[obsidian venture]

So basically taking out the only skill expression in that room

[chrome lantern]

I mean without a shadow fang is insane buff for almost all the rooms over the next best option

[rare grotto]

lol

[ember grove]

the boss location is really rough, the non-unique drops are insulting, and the uniques are a rough combo of niche but so good at their own niches that jagex making them more useful needs to come with making them easier to get

[rare grotto]

why would u cap it at 350

[rain fulcrum]

Is this actually true outside of baba tho

Idk what kephri looks like

[rare grotto]

raid is missing half of its mechanics at that invo

[obsidian venture]

A good solution would be to further have defense reduction

[chrome lantern]

Kephri and Akkha are insanely higher fang dps

[ember grove]

because jagex is mad that people are making like 17m/hr and this is a way to deal with it

[rain fulcrum]

Akkha is weird now tho

[rare grotto]

awful way to do it

u can farm 350 really fast

[rain fulcrum]

I guess you'd still melee him while he prays range

[obsidian venture]

Should lower rates sub 400. Nerf team rates about 20%-30%, so that 410 8 man isn’t capped. That itself would help as folks would have to do higher invos to cap and not everyone will want to do that. Increase solo rates slightly post 300

[chrome lantern]

Yeah and if you don’t have shadow you fang akkha 2/3 of the time and bofa the last

[vestal ruin]

I agree on the non-unique drops being insulting, wish it was atleast somewhat decent. Yeah location is terrible until u get the tablet, could do with a lower garunteed rate for it than 100kc

[rain fulcrum]

Is fang better than bp on akkha

Never had a reason to compare it

[chrome lantern]

On akkha yes on shadows no

[rare grotto]

it's fine if there's a blanket nerf on purp chance across the board, and teams being less favoured

it's essentially a 50/50 chance to roll a purp in 8 man 400s

which are very easy to do

[rain fulcrum]

I think it should actually be teams favored but like favor around 3-5 is the sweetspot

[obsidian venture]

Capping the raid at 350 is bad for progression in general. Should push folks to go higher

[tough nacelle]

I dont think this is the answer

[frail nebula]

I hope it's not actually a uniform nerf to purple chances at every invo

[obsidian venture]

Instead of going backwards

[frail nebula]

I'd rather it scale less aggressively with invo

[tough nacelle]

it needs global reduction

[obsidian venture]

Why so?

Yeah

[rare grotto]

it should be nonexistant at sub 300 invo 🤷‍♂️

[tough nacelle]

High invo puts out way more purples

[chrome lantern]

I really wish I could enjoy the full extent of drop rates but instead I’m at 70% of my expected drops in over 500 raids (over half of which are above 475 solos)

[tough nacelle]

than low invo

[rare grotto]

pulling a shadow at low invo shouldnt be a thing

[frail nebula]

which is why the scaling shouldn't be as aggressive

[ember grove]

I don't think irons grinding 150s for a fang matter at all economically, so a flat purple nerf feels like nuking the raid from orbit instead of killing the stuff jagex care about

like I don't hate it but I feel like you can do better than "rates are worse, done" lol

[obsidian venture]

They can nerf it globally but they should reduce the team impact more

[tough nacelle]

issue with making people push for higher TOA invos is they really arent fun

I think rate should cap at 450ish

[tender harness]

yeah those soloers doing the 500s shitting out purples definitely the problem
definitely not the 8 man 450s

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah that's why high invos should remove defense not add it!!

[obsidian venture]

That’s fair but capping the raid at a pisslow lvl is just as boring

[tough nacelle]

500+ increased chance for pet

[rare grotto]

high invo is fun, it just has some issues that prevent it from being better

[uneven goblet]

Is there somewhere we can give real feedback or just yap

[rare grotto]

if i wanted to faceroll the raid i'd do 400s

[obsidian venture]

Further def reductions can help speed up the raid considerably

[ember grove]

reddit

lmao

[rain fulcrum]

Reddit but only if your feedback is the same as the hive mind

[tough nacelle]

I think reduce shadow rate from sub 300s

[sacred oracle]

it's weird that they openly admit in the blog that they may be just too late to do anything about fang/other prices of toa drops

[tough nacelle]

but not impossible

[sacred oracle]

like, why did they wait so long then

[rain fulcrum]

I legit haven't found a single reddit post criticizing the shit ToA changes

[sacred oracle]

were they just sitting here going, yup, this is a problem, for three whole years

[rain fulcrum]

Everyone is just happy that baba does no damage now

[tough nacelle]

its not a horrible change per say

[indigo tinsel]

Be the change you want to see

[tough nacelle]

Baba is just a boring room now

[rain fulcrum]

May as well delete the entire boss

[tough nacelle]

It doesnt feel like the right change imo

[ember grove]

jagex have a very weird workflow and they consistently abandon new content until 2-3 years post release, after a month or so of changes

[tough nacelle]

perhaps killing monkais should offer healing

[sacred oracle]

like, of course it's too late now

[tough nacelle]

instead of this

[sacred oracle]

fang could quintuple in price and still not be correctly valued

[tender harness]

boulderdash rework boulders so they explode and leave rag tiles or some shit idfk

[tough nacelle]

or increase spawn rate of monkeys

if they remove baba chip

[rain fulcrum]

I was thinking to just change babas swipe attack to be like muspah melee or something

And you only take 0 damage if you dodge it

At least that gives something instead of prot melee take no damage

[restive sapphire]

^

[tender harness]

baba chip could have been fine if they would have tuned it.
otherwise like yeah just make his melee stuff more engaging
or make his damage typeless

[restive sapphire]

or have shadow slam/sarcophagus disable prayers

[rare grotto]

did u see the vod i posted a bit ago?

i entered the room with 101 hp and finished at 64

boss does no dmg as is

#game-update message

[obsidian venture]

People really exaggerate how much red X is needed ngl

[rare grotto]

legit

[rain fulcrum]

5:1 also seems like very fair for tech

[obsidian venture]

It is

[rare grotto]

that's a 545 too, like if ur in the 300-400 range the boss doesn't even get that many autos off

[rain fulcrum]

But I think people just think of the 1:0 brain off

[obsidian venture]

Like if you need to red x go for it

[vestal ruin]

Think they mightve messed up the proposal spreadsheet, unless olm is getting water and earth weakness?

[chrome lantern]

I do like using zero supplies before Wardens

[rain fulcrum]

Baba auto damage is also kinda weird in that it doesn't even matter in groups

[chrome lantern]

I pointed this out earlier this morning, spreadsheet says earth

Also in the DHW section it says earth

So probably earth

[rain fulcrum]

I don't really get the point of elemental weaknesses because every element is the same

[vestal ruin]

Id assume earth but putting it under water section def coulda been an accident

[rain fulcrum]

I guess if you needed multiple elements in a raid you'd need to bring multiple times?

Times*

Tomes

[formal sentinel]

Ways to buff standard spells, but keeping it thematic?

[chrome lantern]

Yeah they’re only relevant if you’re an iron without all the tomes or you have multiple weaknesses in an encounter

[rain fulcrum]

But like otherwise it's just busywork to swap spell between bosses

Which I think would be quite annoying to do in an actual raid

[formal sentinel]

Just bring Twinflame and even then you don't have to lmao

[rain fulcrum]

Solve one problem create another

[vestal ruin]

I wonder how long until we see some of these proposed changes applied

[frail nebula]

I'm guessing august

at the earliest

[uneven goblet]

I hope reddit wins and every room in toa is braindead afk

[frail nebula]

the roadmap had it after varlamore p3

[vestal ruin]

I could see a few things going through sooner

[frail nebula]

and that's scheduled for july

maybe

[rain fulcrum]

Amazing that with all of these change they still haven't considered just fixing ToA defense

[fossil epoch]

Surely summer sweep up is just a lot of updates coming out whenever they are ready

these 2 blogs are just the "big" reveal

[frail bough]

It's like a typical qol poll, without the poll part.

[fossil epoch]

We already got sire update aswell, which was a part of the orignally proposed sweepup

[rain fulcrum]

Can't wait for them to change corp drops so irons start paying mains to chicken their corps

[fossil epoch]

like the old days

[frail bough]

I think game could benefit from doing a survey on why people actually play iron. I feel most mains just assume its to play solo when that's obviously not the case (to me).

[fossil epoch]

I actually think that you will find that its inflated with the more casual ironmen now

[formal sentinel]

No, we assume it's to DIY

[uneven goblet]

I think we would benefit from having real feedback avenues instead of a reddit thread

[rain fulcrum]

Isn't it so that they can complain about everything

[fossil epoch]

those just arent voicing their opiinions

[formal sentinel]

Since that's the posted reason for the gamemode

[chrome lantern]

I play iron because I don't care about clog number or pet hunting and want drops to have any meaning beyond gp

[formal sentinel]

All benefits of DIY. Totally fair

[rain fulcrum]

Like the irons who r complaining about supply drop nerfs could go play bronzeman

[austere mulch]

Legit like 80% of the problem

[frail bough]

I do think that if this was an actual gamemode, without ability to unlock from pvp. That most irons fit in this category.

[uneven goblet]

irons who are complaining about supps are guaranteed 1500 total

[rain fulcrum]

Bronzeman is a pretty cool game mode

[formal sentinel]

Sure, but there's nothing stopping them from playing it as an unofficial game mode. And so trying to change the official iron game mode to fit that, when they could just play that, is ridiculous

[frail bough]

I don't think its rediculous at all otherwise we wouldn't have gotten official ironman to begin with.

[formal sentinel]

Then try to get bronzeman brought in as an official gamemmode instead of trying to change ironman

[frail bough]

And honestly the little helmet icon is just a "verification" badge. Nobody would believe anyone, apart from a long youtube series, that they obtained it themselves

[uneven goblet]

Bronzeman offical mode is just cheesable

[rain fulcrum]

Who said to change iron

Besides u

[uneven goblet]

Wouldnt work

[frail bough]

I'm not trying to do anything lol

[formal sentinel]

I'm talking about the supply/etc complaints to make the non-PvM grinds trivial

[frail bough]

Also, if I did imply anything, this is exactly what I implied.

[rain fulcrum]

Oh I see

Yeah

I mean ultimately some people end up caring more about keeping the helm

Than having fun

[formal sentinel]

It's not complaining they can't trade for them, it's complaining about having to do a big portion of Ironman. The part that bronzeman lets you not have to do

[rain fulcrum]

[tacit wharf]

first breach is about to appear for those of you who are watching streamers in ddm allstars

[frail bough]

i'm interested now, who are we watching

[tacit wharf]

pick one

[frail bough]

I like being told who to cheer for

[rain fulcrum]

People watch dmm?

[uneven goblet]

dmm allstars

[iron rock]

hey when do summer sweep-up changes actually go live? or does it need to be polled still or something

[uneven goblet]

summer sweep-up

[tacit wharf]

some time between now and later

[rain fulcrum]

I imagine the buffs will be polled and the nerfs will be integritied

[tacit wharf]

i dont feel any of these are being polled

[rain fulcrum]

They should 100% need to poll removing mechanics from toa

[tacit wharf]

that'd be integril

[uneven goblet]

ngl the toa changes are pretty cooked

[chrome lantern]

My comment on the drop table changes for manta rays is that replacing them with sharks and shark chum is kinda zzz. I don't think it would be worth fishing/using sharks on even the most desperate ironman

[uneven goblet]

the only good one is kephri

[rain fulcrum]

What are they changing at kephri

[uneven goblet]

Arcane moves on set amount of hits

[chrome lantern]

I think lower defenses on minions, arcane moves after set number of attacks against it

[uneven goblet]

wether you hit or miss

Means you can solo swarm p2

[tender harness]

[rain fulcrum]

Oh the scarab defense change is super reasonable

That soldier is ridiculously hard to hit with sang

[strange idol]

would be kind of cool if shark chum works with minnows

[formal sentinel]

Last time they gave any kind of timeline, summer sweep up was July. So I'd guess last week of July, or final polls close then & implementation is August

[frail bough]

These arent being polled

[true talon]

none of this is polled lol

its a blog detailing you what they are going to do

[trail beacon]

Tbh I don’t think the Akkha changes will go through, Jagex would get so much backlash from Toa enthusiasts, which are pretty much most of the people who do that content anyway

[frail bough]

Again, this isn't being polled. And the fact we haven't seen more backlash in here tells me there probably isn't enough hate for them to reconsider.

[lament peak]

I hope toa purples aren't lowered across the board. The high invocation rates can stand to come down a little

[frail bough]

It also changes it just enough that new metas will likely happen and it might not even actually be harder.

[trail beacon]

We don’t need new metas, if people want something different, do one of the other 2 raids or wait for raids 4. I don’t see why existing content needs to be dumbed down for noobs to get in. Especially when said content can be adjusted in difficulty already

[lament peak]

Agree. It's not like I was injecting them into the economy. I was using the manta rays as I acquired them because they replaced themselves.
Sharks, on the other hand, I have 0 use for. Except maybe wilderness food, or rations for forestry

[obsidian venture]

Nerf team rates if anything

[frail bough]

I'd argue that they originally pitched invocations and things that can be modified and added to and have never done that - this would technically do that.

[obsidian venture]

Would like to see fresh invos then

[frail bough]

I mean i would too but here we are :/

[obsidian venture]

Not really a change to existing ones 3 years later

[trail beacon]

3 years later? After people have already grown fond of the content?

[frail bough]

When toa was originally pitched, they were planning on bringing in new invocations and stuff.

[obsidian venture]

They argued for modifying the content via invos on release

But that really wasn’t done

At all

[copper dirge]

I hope the Duke Speed time is more reasonable when they implement the change. The current meta of having to complete a kill before attempting and then spamming 40 mushrooms and hoping your bgs hits big is really not fun. it feels like each attempt takes 6-7mins of absolute focus the moment you step into the room.

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

Barely

I meant moreso as in adding them

[limber briar]

they talked about invos changing such as for example every 3 months or so you have different options

[frail bough]

If everyone was fond of the content, they wouldn't really be changing it would they?

[obsidian venture]

Yeah because of accessibility

And target audience

This was pitched as the entry to raids

[trail beacon]

There isn’t a piece of content in game that “everyone is fond of”. I love toa but I hate tob, that doesn’t mean tob should be changed on my behalf.

[limber briar]

toa people only did it for the money for the first year xd

[frail bough]

I never said that.

[obsidian venture]

People are still doing all 3 raids, it’s just that toa is easier and spits out more purples

[tender harness]

what an incoherent statement

[lament peak]

Even the best way of acquiring Sharks, Minnows, is miserable. Too high effort for a powercrept food. If i want low xp afk I'll fish anglers

[obsidian venture]

Yama replaces bandos and is new content, so I’d hope it’s better

Minus bgs*

[austere mulch]

Requirements for EHB Yama also lower than requirements for EHB bandos

Which is kinda nutso

[frail bough]

Cause some of the things in the more accessible raid are still shit.

[trail beacon]

Out of everything in the blog post, the only thing I actually agree on in terms of Toa is adjusting the drop table. Maybe also the “deposit box”

[frail bough]

?maybe? the deposit box? lmao

how can that even be a maybe

[obsidian venture]

Because it has garnered the same complaints for 3 years now

I’m not a fan of the akkha change and baba change mind you

I like the skill expression in 5:1 baba

[trail beacon]

A “maybe” because it would allow me to bring more items into the raid and be able to bank them before warden. Thus giving me more inventory space to take out supplies from supply bag

[frail bough]

🤦‍♂️

[hard axle]

billybobs don't want to learn red-x

[frail bough]

You can already do this lol

[trail beacon]

Clearly I can tell you never do toa 💀💀

[obsidian venture]

Long raid, not much optimization, def cap, too many purples

[austere mulch]

If you want EHB bandos, solo on an iron. You’re gonna need heart + max mage + shadow + aug. Shadow being non negotiable and other items being replaceable with reasonable cost to ehb

Vs you can get like 90% ehb on Yama with one TD item and moons gear

[plush gull]

bandos hard requires 70 str and soft requires hard CAs. yama soft requires arclight charges (or wgs/mega). theyre both super inaccessible compared to colo and inferno

[trail beacon]

BRUH 💀💀💀💀

[lament peak]

Red x should have never been a thing to begin with

[frail bough]

Are you saying they should remove the deposit pot?

Cause I don't understand, I'm sorry.

[limber briar]

red x is the most boring thing to do imo i still do it because it's needed for high invos

[plush gull]

wtf is the deposit pot thats the main part of the blog i didnt digest

[obsidian venture]

It is a bug but something Jagex has accepted since

[frail bough]

It's a pot where you can use items on it to bank them mid raid

[trail beacon]

No. The blog states the “deposit pot” will be able to act as a “deposit box” being able to deposit items back to the bank not just potions

[frail bough]

🤦‍♂️

[plush gull]

o ok thanks

[trail beacon]

Clearly never run toa before

[frail bough]

Yes, clearly.

[limber briar]

it's not toa is boring af

[frail bough]

I understand the differences between deposit pot and deposit box. But how in the world would that make a difference enough for you to "maybe" be okay with it? No matter what you are bringing in the gear, it doesn't literally give you more inventory space.

What use case would this actually matter?

[limber briar]

yet you'r complaining about the tweaks

you're*

[austere mulch]

Ehh I disagree with this sentiment. It’s fair to say why you don’t like something. That’s helpful. Bashing it religiously is not tho

Fixing the defense scaling in toa would solve like 80% of the problems

[trail beacon]

I said “Maybe” because I haven’t thought thoroughly enough about use applications. With a deposit box, I’d be able to go in the raid with 3 slots for supplies. By warden I bank bone dagger, fang, whatever else isn’t used and now I have 5+ slots to withdraw one of each pot

I’m not gonna say “yeah add it” without think it through properly

[frail bough]

So glad this is going unpolled lmao

I can appreciate you taking the time to want to think through things but idk man.

[limber briar]

do people still take bone dagger into toa?

just curious^

[obsidian venture]

Only if doing od raids

Then you drop it usually

[trail beacon]

You don’t know cuz you don’t run toa enough to know how half these changes impact the raid. Instead you just persist to blurt out your verbal diarrhoea about something you have no clue on

[obsidian venture]

Like I pot high invos but I can’t lie, toa bores tf outta me :/

[frail bough]

You say this and make the assumption I have no clue what I'm talking about but you're in here explaining that it might be problematic to be able to withdraw one of each potion from the supply bag ❓

[limber briar]

yeah i'll go in do one then be like nahh i'm good for the month lol

[obsidian venture]

Also in high invos, you don’t need space as you’re doing double power

Or power life, just to squeeze and extra restore

[gaunt kestrel]

But the free restore though

[obsidian venture]

Yeah for qol

[gaunt kestrel]

😛

[obsidian venture]

So inv space is a non issue

[gaunt kestrel]

Yeah don't mind me I'm just shit posting

[obsidian venture]

Optimization in toa is pisslow

Hence why it’s boring

But you also won’t find me sending low invos because it’s a shit chance

[limber briar]

yeah sub 400 invo feel pointless

[gaunt kestrel]

In the blog they said they were looking for feedback on ideas of how to address the dropratres

[obsidian venture]

If you want to save 2-3t you can rapier poke at kephri

[gaunt kestrel]

I wonder where we will have this feedback thing

[frail bough]

You mean you don't want to discuss why the deposit box is perfectly fine? Are you sure?

[obsidian venture]

Seems useless ngl

[gaunt kestrel]

Uh idk what deposit box discussion we're having

I just got here

[obsidian venture]

I bring in a 4 dose divine and a 2 dose gets peaced in kephri

[limber briar]

only thing i can see is banking bp after kephri? lol

[chrome lantern]

I could bank my fang before wardens and not have to drop as many ppots at the start of p1 but that's it

[obsidian venture]

Maybe if folks wanna bank horn maul

[frail bough]

It resolves the "whoops i brought in an extra item i didnt mean to" issue when going between different raid groups/roles/invocs so it's not annoying to manage inventory.

[obsidian venture]

But besides that, kinda ??

[gaunt kestrel]

honestly idc about the deposit box either way

[limber briar]

it's pointless but doesn't really hurt anything? Unless i'm missing something lol.

[gaunt kestrel]

but if they want you to only bank supplies then i think thats fine too

[obsidian venture]

Yeah it’s just whatever

Use it or not

[frail bough]

but now im going to be able to bring in two dragon daggers with the ability to not screw up my invo

[limber briar]

lmfao

[frail bough]

are we absolutely sure we should allow this

[obsidian venture]

[frail bough]

dual wield dragon daggers when honestly

[obsidian venture]

R4 bis

[frail bough]

abby dagger shoulda been an offhand, change my mind

[limber briar]

To go back to the ahka thing didn't they also said they were looking at a way that it wouldn't affect butterfly?

[minor whale]

Yes

[obsidian venture]

Yeah update is bad for high invos

450+

[minor whale]

They said if it affects it they'll look into it not changing it drastically

[frail bough]

i mean it should basically just be the same
but "allowing" more freedom to do the room "as intended" is 100% the right play

[obsidian venture]

guess lower if you’re use to someone bflying

You’re going to get dps checked more

And that’s not fun

[frail bough]

which we know they will probably do since they reintroduced it after removing it the first time. so im happy

[rare grotto]

i'm curious what their intentions are with regards to best invo, surely it won't be optimal to just send 400s over 500+

[limber briar]

I like butterflying ahka dislike red-x'ing baba idk man

[frail bough]

I like yama

[limber briar]

yama bis

[frail bough]

yama on my chest

[limber briar]

should have been harder or rates should be higher imo

but super fun

[obsidian venture]

Yama imo is ok

Only find p3 somewhat interesting

[limber briar]

p3 is so good

meteor is so dope as well

[obsidian venture]

Meteor is cool yeah

[frail bough]

when i originally started i would have been very happy if its was just p3 for 3 minutes

but having little breaks with the judge and stuff still feels very good

[limber briar]

in duo's i find myself kinda zoning out p1/p2

[frail bough]

yerp

I think maybe just a bit faster paced, maybe a mix from contracts to the base boss, would have been really good.

[limber briar]

oooh i like that idea.

[frail bough]

but like 30 seconds between having to do anything is a bit much tbh

or w/e it actually is atm

[limber briar]

i do really like the minion aspect

[trail beacon]

Toa is already easy asf as it is. If you wanna run something easier try 150 Toa. Don’t just jump in the deep end and cry saying it’s too hard. Learn the skills required to be able to run 500+ consistently and then you’ll realise why half of these changes are pointless and designed to cater to brain dead noobs such as yourself

[frail bough]

I ran 600+ level 300 raids for my green log okay. I think it's safe to say I'm not a brain dead noob!

[limber briar]

lmfaoooo

running 500+ consistently is not fun

[obsidian venture]

It’s alright

Kinda makes the time worth tbh

[limber briar]

to be fair I've only done like three 500 invos and did not find it fun seeing those white lights for that effort needed would much rather send chill 425-450s

[obsidian venture]

It’s a slow raid regardless

[frail bough]

Any chill 600's plz

I've managed to do b2b 300's without dying, I can manage a 600

[obsidian venture]

Like you can send 500s without hc on if you don’t want to pay a fee

Realistically don’t need it till like 525+

But still imo, boring

Because more hp/def is dull

[trail beacon]

Lvl 300 raids are nothing. No matter how many you run. I was at that point in time where all I ran was 300s. Once I left 329 and started pushing invos. That’s when I actually learnt more about the raid.

[limber briar]

Yeah I need to go back to finish toa but I just find it so boring

[rain fulcrum]

Would be nice if they would adjust invos so you can do 500+s without starting to dig into the shitty DPS loss ones

[frail bough]

True and real, which is exactly why a braindead noob as myself did not do that and just sent 300's the entire way

[obsidian venture]

Yeah

[rain fulcrum]

Like idk I don't think OD is good design

And path levels DEFINITELY need to be binned

(or not scale HP)

[trail beacon]

I didn’t type this, you did 💀

[obsidian venture]

Personally don’t mind od but yeah its a big timeloss for folks

And paths suck

Not needed till 500+

[frail bough]

Yes I know, and you must think I'm lying 😦

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah I just mean in the sense that like you have entire raid balanced around being able to dump out specs but then at the high level ur encouraged to give that up and spec less

[obsidian venture]

With od, you have to play a bit better

But yeah I get you

[rain fulcrum]

I don't see camping magus as more engaging

[obsidian venture]

Ultor helped with od

[trail beacon]

Cone to w508 Toa lobby, lets run some

[frail bough]

Bro

I am green logged

after 600 lvl 300 raids

[marsh hedge]

yo in for chiller 600s

[frail bough]

I am nothing but a truth sayer stop coming at me bro

[wispy current]

I thought everyone liked the toa changes

[trail beacon]

508, I’m in Toa lobby rn

[limber briar]

1634 expert toa is insane

yuckkkk

[frail bough]

Aint no way he's still logged in at toa!

[civic ginkgo]

Ironically, no matter how much the toa sweats complain, it ain't gonna be enough, because they want to make raids easier for people who are learning it/aren't as skilled

[rain fulcrum]

I can't wait til next year when we get yet another monkey room nerf

[tacit wharf]

sure this guy is a "legitimate" player, search eth45687

guy i found at rune dragons

[rain fulcrum]

So that we don't have to swap weapons anymore

By 2030 monkey room will be 3 waves

[trail beacon]

Lmfao, all that talk and no action. Nice to see your true colours shine bro

[limber briar]

alright you got me @rain fulcrum i just weapon swap monkey room ☠️

[frail bough]

bruh, what talk - i literally told you i did the most minimal effort for all my TOA kc
what are you expecting right now

[rain fulcrum]

Honestly removing the dumb hammer potion stuff and leaving the waves alone would b better

[civic ginkgo]

He wants attention

[marsh hedge]

tbh first changes was fire cause before people would hella shadow or bowfa camp the monkey room

[frail bough]

and im giving it to him

[limber briar]

guilty i was shadow camping

[wispy current]

Whats the beef monkey room nerf isnt it all around better because u dont spend as muxh time waiting for stuff to die

[obsidian venture]

Where are my 7 way switchers at old waves

[wispy current]

We are pushing 30 bro no one has time for that

[frail bough]

never have i ever since day 1

[obsidian venture]

I got time to do that if it helps reduce the overall time

[rain fulcrum]

Could have just made them immune to wrong style

[limber briar]

too bad it really doesn't

[obsidian venture]

Kinda did if you compared averages in some teams

[frail bough]

The only time save in this game is getting lucky and catching a false ban.

[obsidian venture]

Now it’s not needed more than a 2 way

[rain fulcrum]

The monkey room nerf is fine it's just funny we need to nerf it 10 times

[limber briar]

ah i see toa as a solo raid barely ever do team toa

[wispy current]

Nothing really fun about clicking 50 million times in 2 minutes

[rain fulcrum]

Honestly just delete all 4 puzzle rooms

[obsidian venture]

To each their own really

[rain fulcrum]

[marsh hedge]

but then i cant flame ppl for messing up 33.6

[obsidian venture]

If I’m gonna pvm I’d like some engagement. For the most part I generally just watch shows and click boss if not raiding

Plenty of bosses to brain off

[true talon]

one thing under rated at yama

is the exp lmao

my friend just got 99 str from 92 from our duo;s

hes 550 kc

[wispy current]

That is kinda disgusting

wtf

36 hours

[true talon]

yea he prob gonna get 91-99 attack at this rate

150k+ exp an hour in str while bossing

he has a 10x multiplier

[frail nebula]

When they announced that they'd be making loot changes, they mentioned that they'd be redistributing loot around the game from sources where it doesn't make sense to places where it does

I'm wondering if they've just changed their mind

Because it really is just pretty big nerfs across the board

[frail bough]

idk, theyve been talking about this for basically ever tbh

[frail nebula]

They're being redistributed to nonexistence

Like seeds

Outside of PvM, you can get them from:

• farming contracts, which are pretty hit or miss
• thieving master farmers

that's it

So if they want to shift seeds out of PvM, it kinda feels like they need to put them, well

somewhere

[dense haven]

im really curious why we are so keen on changing drop rates for things like huey, toa, etc- but still are on the hill to die on of not changing phosani nightmare drop rates 🤣

[frail bough]

Best way to find solutions is to show people how painful it is by making it "how it should be" and going from there.

[frail nebula]

yeah idfk

just like triple drop rates at pnm

genuinely lol

[frail bough]

they have already AND they are making the fight shorter, definitely probably not great to do both at same time

[frail nebula]

it's what, like 600 hours to finish pnm now?

cutting out a phase is still gonna make it atrociously bad

[dense haven]

making the fight shorter is a good change! but why.. why are we so against just making the drops better 🤣

[frail nebula]

oh yeah sure

[frail bough]

time flies while having fun

[limber briar]

worst part about PNM is the run there till you get tablet

[frail nebula]

making it shorter is good

[dense haven]

its like were doing everything except that lol

[frail nebula]

but it falls a few thousand miles short of where it should be lol

[frail bough]

its also one of those things where you can't fix everything all at once

[frail nebula]

why not

[limber briar]

2030 will be the year of PNM!

[frail nebula]

they're trying that for toa lol

with mechanical and loot changes

and that has a lot more going on than pnm overall

[frail bough]

lets use our brains a bit for that one

[frail nebula]

with mechanics for each boss, etc.

[frail bough]

there are so many nitpicky things that can be changed about the game

it would literally be impossible to do it all at once

[dense haven]

the way im looking at it is like
they just tripled the droprates at huey. so why.. not just do it to phosani 🤣
thats just my side of it i guess 😄

im more so just curious what the worry is on just making them better drops

[frail bough]

even if it was possible, nobody would want that - it would be an absolute shit show

[dense haven]

as its very obvious jagex doesnt want to

[frail nebula]

Jagex definitely wants pnm to be awful