game-update

[winged mantle]

But god dam do the contracts just feel like they missed every single thing

[true talon]

Medic except you die nice lol

At very least contracts are going to be great for the death's coffer XD

Straight into the bin when i can XD

[austere mulch]

Worse, it’ll require Virtus, ancestral, and a new 30hr TTC cloth that becomes worthless because how quick it is to obtain

That said, requiring ancestral to some extent wouldn’t be that bad tbh. Could have it to where the new gear requires “ancestral cloth” through a process that lets you deconstruct any piece of ancestral into it (like bandos for Torva)

That way you can use dupe ancestral

[hasty shard]

or just not powercreep ancestral idk

[tacit pendant]

Mage and range have plenty of room for style specific sets for the next 5 years

We have a melee trio of bis, mage has 2. Range has like 1.5 lol

[vernal valve]

this mega isn't true. for ironmen (the only people Bandos TTC really matters for, lmao), Bandos TTC is 40-50 hours. Gear/method powercreep hasn't pressed it as far as you think, because most of the time you're spending at that boss is gatekept by waiting for him to respawn. Mains can get more KPH via hopping methods/alts and such, but lol

bandos TTC and Yama TTC really are not that far apart. Bandos armor really is just decently rare, actually.

[tacit pendant]

I would skip bandos nonetheless on a fresh iron

But moons contributes to this equally as much as yama

[vernal valve]

i mean yeah at this point the only actual reason to go to bandos is BGS and torva pieces. Bandos was arguably never really even worth it outside of BGS to begin with, tbh

[tacit pendant]

Horn means bgs less useful.

[vernal valve]

Ehhhhh, they're not exactly interchangeable

[tacit pendant]

For sure

[vernal valve]

Horn's almost definitely getting buffed though

So we'll see

You definitely don't need a BGS for anything, but it's a pretty good item

[tacit pendant]

Can hammer with a teamate at toa, bone dag solos ig

It is, u could easily justify waiting for shadow, bowfa

[vernal valve]

yeah but after actually doing the BGSless runs at Toa I can tell you that shit fuckin sucks LMAO

when you're rocking a bowfa being able to BGS a lot of bosses is really good. bone dagger is...alright, but it's really quite a bit worse unless you're pushing mega high invos

[tacit pendant]

And tbf you could always run teams and let others bgs

So not much functionally changed

Maybe this is a dumb question. But does emberlight reduce babas melees?

Or zebaks stuff

[vernal valve]

This is almost certainly the play for bowfa billies imo, pushing high invo toa solos is pretty annoying bc of supply issues. Teams make it pretty braindead. So, you're not wrong.

[vernal valve]

the drain basically sucks on anything that's not a demon iirc

[tacit pendant]

Ahhh so demon or corp

[vernal valve]

yeah it's only 5%+1 drain on non-demons

and ofc against non-demons emberlight's stats are hilariously bad

[tacit pendant]

8 man horn emberlight on baba tho

[vernal valve]

lmao

if it's an 8 man i don't think baba chip is gonna be a problem 😭

[tacit pendant]

Lmaoooo

The tank will really appreciate the love

[tough nacelle]

bandos isnt 40-50h lol. its a 1/381 drop from a boss thats significantly easier and faster than Yama. You can skip bandos now

but its definitly slower than bandos

it also has no helmet

bandos TOTAL ttk is what? 3 min?

[hasty shard]

worth considering you just cant really go dry at yama in comparison

[tough nacelle]

50 KC trips

[vernal valve]

it definitely is, bc there's no dupe protection, TTC is including BGS, and you're mostly respawn gated

[tender harness]

You can't? Tf are you on.
Torva still is required and you need bandos
Bandos efficiency is like 50 hours

[hasty shard]

torva still required

[tough nacelle]

you 100% can skip bandos as 99.99999% of irons

will never get torva

[tender harness]

The helm*

Smh

[hasty shard]

look if people get their way avernics will have 7 str and that goes out of the setup anyways

look forward to full oathplate bis 😭

[vernal valve]

I do agree bandos is mega skippable, but that isn't why I brought up bandos rates, lmao

Whether or not you "have" to do bandos isn't the point

[tough nacelle]

I think its not really fair to say bandos is the same time to complete

as yama

[vernal valve]

It's not the same time to complete

But it's like, pretty close

[tough nacelle]

Nex rates are a mistake imo

and so were release day yama

[small anvil]

I think monkey was saying no hop bandos

Which has a lot of idle time

[vernal valve]

nex ttc is like 3x the time of yama 😭

nobody's saying nex rates

[tender harness]

Give yama pnm rates

[tough nacelle]

I mean you could argue yama should have been slightly rarer, but Nex, Pnm, and cox are kind of crap

[hasty shard]

when are we getting freezelog bandos

[tough nacelle]

as was virt from DT2

[tender harness]

When torva gets buffed

[vernal valve]

most melee gear has outlier grind times bc most melee gear is straight up crap, but still takes much longer to grind than you'd expect, I agree

there's a reason blood moon imploded Bandos' price, after all

[tough nacelle]

yeah bloodmoon should have been a bit weaker than it was imo but here we are lol

[vernal valve]

but if that's the stance, jagex should also adjust other drop rates, and not just drop the nuclear bomb called Oathplate into melee prog

[hasty shard]

are we finally seeing the consequences of anti power creep

[vernal valve]

either oathplate needs to be rarer or other melee gear needs to be rebalanced

🤷‍♂️

[tough nacelle]

Im curious what project droprate rebalance or w/e its called will do

because right now some items are just silly

[tender harness]

When the only good torva piece left is helm
I'd say so

[small anvil]

I feel like drop rates are more forgiving recently and it's not a terrible thing

[tough nacelle]

issue is how do you powercreep in a way that preserves old content

[small anvil]

Not everything should be a 1000 hour to complete

[tough nacelle]

time gate respawn rates?

[small anvil]

It just clashes against older stuff

[tough nacelle]

or just keep buffing gear to make old content dead

only way to mitigate it is upgrade scape

[small anvil]

It's partly iron consideration id guess

[vernal valve]

it's definitely much better than shit like Nightmare rates, but stuff like Fang coming in is really bag for the game imo

like fang 9m right now

[tough nacelle]

but then it becomes silly

[vernal valve]

that's RIDICULOUS

lmao

[small anvil]

Yeah oath isn't fang tbf

[tough nacelle]

fang has so many problems

[hasty shard]

you can just, buff old content

[small anvil]

But shards shouldn't have been tradeable

[tough nacelle]

its the only viable way to do TOA

[vernal valve]

in terms of strength absolutely not, you're right

[tough nacelle]

but it was a busted af item

[vernal valve]

but it's prob gonna do similar things to the melee gear market that fang did to melee weapons

[small anvil]

I mean in terms of price it's headed to

[tough nacelle]

keris should have been fang for TOA change my mind

[small anvil]

There's gonna be a limit to how much yama gets farmed honestly

[hasty shard]

this is what i mean by 'consequences of anti power creep', you make too many minor steps you get to a point where there is literally no gap to add content and you make entire batches of content obsolete with one update that does powercreep

[tender harness]

Power creep is inevitable you can't not have a game with progression with out it in some form.
Fang being 9m is the reaction to the nerf. Which is not the fault of fang that would be ToA shitting out too many purples

[tough nacelle]

I did 130 TOAs with a hasta when I was an iron and it was so crap

[small anvil]

If oath tanks too much

[vernal valve]

you're not wrong tbh, since most of yama'a value is tied directly to oathplate in some way, but ig we'll see

[small anvil]

People dooming about the future price of oath were off base imo

[tough nacelle]

well thats only because the contract system failed

otherwise 100% drop rate contracts

would have messed pricing up too

[small anvil]

There's not that much other profitability in the boss outside of worm, catalyst

[tough nacelle]

we're just in a pickel

[vernal valve]

the contract price drop was mostly speculative, even if 100% of oathplate contracts were completed they still would have been less than 10% of the total supply

[tough nacelle]

what gear do you release

[small anvil]

So yeah prices will drop over time as more gets added to the game

[tough nacelle]

that doesnt kill old gear

but is worth going for

[small anvil]

But it's not headed towards sub 100m

[tough nacelle]

that isnt upgrade scape

[small anvil]

Profit at yama is already at like 10m/hr no?

[dusty shore]

1/1500 for the contract from yama. It would have made a small dent in the prices but no way near what people claim

[small anvil]

About 10% of oath supply is in contracts

From the math I did before drop rate changes

[tough nacelle]

if rancor is sitting at 70m (20m is from gorillas) this set will prob sit at 250-400

[small anvil]

Yeah that's a fine point to sit at

If anything nex is a bit abnormal in that it's not farmed as much as the profitability says it should

[hasty shard]

cough cough team content cough

[small anvil]

Probably cuz people hate doing nex

[tough nacelle]

Its an unfun dps check in teams

[small anvil]

Yeah

[neon gate]

20000 lesser demons

[vernal valve]

i'm pretty sure it's a good amount higher still

it still has plenty of room to drop imo

[neon gate]

Yama is going to get botted to shit by level 100s with only magic

[small anvil]

I haven't done the math on it, just repeating a YouTubers estimate

[neon gate]

it's way too "accessible"

100m in gear, wgs/akd all a bot needs

[wispy current]

They need to nerf magic

At yama

[small anvil]

Yama is def one of the better profitability for a cheapish price

[tough nacelle]

lol tormented demons on yama release

[small anvil]

Like 300m in gear and you unlock basically bis

[tough nacelle]

were like 13-15m/hr

the synapses hit 95m or so

which was just silly

[hasty shard]

https://tenor.com/view/500-cigarettes-five-hundred-cigarettes-gif-6779891482871762392

im actually shocked they removed the slayer task req there

i was assuming they didnt at first until like the other day 😭

like actually wtf are they thinking these shit out rune dragon tier gp

[vernal valve]

bc they really wanted people to farm them, and even with them shitting out money, people just didn't do it 😭

[hard axle]

the last place i expected an orville meme

[odd basalt]

Silver isn't gold, basically BIS isn't BIS lol

[small anvil]

Ok sure but like weapons are usually 70%+ of the cost to be in bis, the fact you can be within 5% of bis dmg with a modest budget is a huge deal

[neon gate]

https://i.imgur.com/PkzT9Yu.png 5000000000 greater demons

[thick beacon]

its case with armors but not really with weapons

weapons are most important thing by far

not having a tbow scy shadow is pretty big dps loss

[small anvil]

Yeah exactly

So yama being pretty good money while only requiring ember and purging is huge

[neon gate]

huge mistake

oathplate is going to 0 and dragging bandos and torva with it

Torva is just inq for stab now

[minor whale]

Oathplate has actually gained ~100m just today lol

I think it was low because contracts were expected to bring in a ton of them

But it hasn't happened at all so people are bailing on their holds

[tacit wharf]

wizzy just isnt having a good time pyro

[slender vapor]

https://i.imgur.com/SKuWqN7.png

https://i.imgur.com/vPsLJDn.png

Not exactly freefalling anymore

[minor whale]

Extremely happy I bought at 120m for top and bottom

[slender vapor]

I think the turbo farming cooling off in week 2/3 is also affecting the price

[minor whale]

For sure

Almost all price graphs look just like this

Shit plummets then rises back up because people get bored or get a drop and move on

[slender vapor]

Already on its way back up, who knows it might be 500-600m again

Since contract oathplate is a meme

[tacit pendant]

Itll go down after memorial day for sure

[slender vapor]

And wont affect the price

[tacit pendant]

The boss gon be giga farmed. People just realizing how good it is

[tacit wharf]

also have the re-interest once ca's come out

[plucky umbra]

Oathplate is way too common for how powerful it is. It's not pretty but it needs another 30% nerf imo. Yama is just as accessible as Bandos, nearly as fast to complete, and drops armor that is an upgrade/sidegrade to Torva.

The p3 fireballs should also drop during either the entirety, or at least the flame phase of p1/p2; they're one of the most fun and skillful parts of the fight. Not only would they break up some of the monotony of p1/p2, but it would be a fun skilll test to try and take advantage of the speedups while still dodging waves/hitting the glyph in time.

[tender harness]

They do. Just do acquisition contracts

[tight brook]

Nex you only need rcb and dhide if you want tbh. same shit LOL

Also when jagex only releases content every 6 months to a year, of course people going to farm the living fuck out of it so prices will fall. Its something new to do.

[small anvil]

rcb is way worse than zcb at nex

by a ton

fang being bis at nex is true tho

[neon gate]

https://i.imgur.com/UYXmCAp.png 4287614286742 greater demons

top tier gameplay

[plucky umbra]

lol, I just don't get why it's not a part of normal Yama. P1/P2 are just too easy, and the fire walls that spawn currently I'm pretty sure never hit you if you are moving at all

[chrome lantern]

The only mildly hard thing to dodge is walls when walking from meteor

[plucky umbra]

the reality is that Yama drops endgame gear and has midgame mechanics and droprates

P3 is great, so much of the highlight of the fight is there, but the remaining 70% of the fight in p1/p2 and judge is underwhelming

[hard axle]

[plucky umbra]

I really hope Jagex will take the data and feedback from week 1 and 2 and make changes, I'd much rather have a balanced boss with harder mechanics and more action whose drops fit correctly in the game economy/ecosystem, even if people farmed it above rate for 2 weeks

[analog crow]

I trust prices will stabilize over the summer and the dips in moons, bandos and torva will at least somewhat rebound.

Especially bandos and moons since it doesn't really make sense for their values to drop 30%

[thick beacon]

alot of midgame content drops kinda insane rewards tbh its a wierd trend

[analog crow]

yeah it's wild

[thick beacon]

vard drops ultor arraxor rancour etc i definitely expected yama to be more difficult then this at a base lvl for sure

[analog crow]

oathplate price seems very volatile rn it'll be fun to see where it lands

[hard axle]

perilous moon sets are wild

for where they come from

[analog crow]

Bandos is an insanely long grind for no reason, it's nice that equivalent armor drops from better content

[hard axle]

only cuz the new content trivialized it

[analog crow]

We are in the funmaxxing era of osrs

Goobye to masochistic content, hello to fun bosses

[plucky umbra]

P3 Yama is fun, Judge is okay, p1/p2 yama are a slog though

its as if they took nightmare, made her only swap styles every 8 attacks, and removed the grasping claws attack

[rain fulcrum]

Cuz jagex is afraid of giving hard content good rewards coz iron redditors so hard content gets niche gear and midgame content gets bis

[meager flame]

Tbf this is completely normal

There isn't remotely enough end game content to cover all of our bis items

[rain fulcrum]

Up until recently there was not really much precedent for releasing upgrades to items from easier content than the items come from

Like you could arguably say blood moon is an upgrade to bandos b/c of the set effect

And having mage defense

[plucky umbra]

it's a sidegrade to bandos

whereas oathplate is an upgrade from bandos and a situational upgrade from torva, but that situation is a lot of them

[rain fulcrum]

In practice blood Moon is an upgrade to bandos

Even if it's a sidegrade it still comes from way too easy content to be a sidegrade

[plucky umbra]

only in places where mage def > range def or where you're using macus

[thick beacon]

i totaly understand oathplate being insanely strong

[plucky umbra]

which is a lot less often than "where you slash"

[true talon]

They arent going to re-design the boss, your high lol. the drop rates are fine. 1/600 is just below the same rate as phosani. solo yami takes 4-5 mins to kill in absolute max and pretty difficult to master. duo is little to easy but it still cuts your rates in half. this perception that every boss needs to be awakened tier that drops end game items needs to stop.

[thick beacon]

idk if nerfing it is right call either

[rain fulcrum]

Yama is also way easier than phosanis

[meager flame]

They should nerf nex

[true talon]

yama is harder than phosani

phosani is piss easy

[plucky umbra]

no way this is true

[rain fulcrum]

Yama is basically afk

Like there would be no problem with Yama if p1/p2 had anything to spice them up

P3 is fine

[true talon]

p1/p2 are fine.

[plucky umbra]

punishment for missing a prayer at yama is 30-40 damage, and it happens every 8t, punishment for missing a prayer at phosani is 60-80 damage on a 6t

[hard axle]

yama is only harder than phosani if ur a mage camper that doesn't know how to dodge waves

[hard axle]

and prayer disable

[rain fulcrum]

But p1p2 you literally stand there praying 1 thing for 20 seconds hitting the boas

[hard axle]

p4 is a huge fucking tripline for newer players

[tender harness]

Bruh doesnt even know the secret glyph tech

[plucky umbra]

phosani drops are horridly balanced and require their own discussion, comparing Yama to Nex you have a functional sidegrade that takes half the time

and requires way less gear than Nex

[rain fulcrum]

Funnily I prefer p4 because I don't need to think about if my prayer is already on lol

[hard axle]

put a 30% increase on pnm after sotf

[thick beacon]

sidegrade kinda understatement i think id choose oathplate over torva in terms of power and use alone

[meager flame]

Thats a nex problem more than anything tbh

[plucky umbra]

2 synapses and you're good to go, to get optimal Nex rates you need a tbow, zcb, fang, fortified masori

[tender harness]

Phosani is atleast fun to do other than the kick in the nuts run it has before tele
But the loot is good lord

[meager flame]

Like

[rain fulcrum]

The pnm run is shorter than the Yama p1/p2 afk session

[meager flame]

Nex in small teams larger than a duo is a joke and its just out there soaking time

[true talon]

id say this is false. to reasonably do nex you need fang + bandos + karils+acb and even then it wont be that great a run.
The 2 synpases required for yama already trumps that entire set.

[hard axle]

even duo kinda a joke now

[rain fulcrum]

Synapses r not that hard to get

I would say bandos+acb is longer but idk the actual numbers

[vernal valve]

synapses are literally bis, you could genuinely duo yama with an arclight

[true talon]

I was comparing a price point

[plucky umbra]

near max gear for Yama (emberlight + staff + bandos + virtus) is way more achievable than near max gear for Nex (tbow + zcb + fortified masori + fang)

[meager flame]

I was saying it sometime earlier but if jagex wants to fix some of this

[hard axle]

why does price point matter when ur an iron

[meager flame]

Theyre coming for nex and nightmare rates this summer

[true talon]

i wasnt look at it from a iron lol

[hard axle]

do u just flip flop back and forth depending which is better for ur agenda

synpase being more expensive isn't bad

[thick beacon]

nm rates could be like 1/30 and i still wouldint rrly care about going for the armor tbh on my iron

[hard axle]

its also reflective of the gp u make at the content

pnm is shit money

[meager flame]

Like the reason jagex can't do a lot about Yama rates rn without people going crazy

[true talon]

yama was a really good update. its not the easiest boss in the world and its not the most difficult, its one of the few bosses that mega's are not priorty.

[rain fulcrum]

Megas not being priority is fine

[meager flame]

Is because people that are more normal can look at a 70+ hour grind and say that's a lot because it actually is

[plucky umbra]

Yama is a good boss, but could be great with a few tweaks and should be harder than it is for the quality of items it drops and those drops should be slightly less common

[meager flame]

Thats like 3 whole games for them

[rain fulcrum]

Synapse being so expensive seems hard to maintain long term because it's a not very rare drop from a pretty easy to farm mob (not even a boss)

[meager flame]

Its just that jagex conditioned other people to hate themselves and do excessive things like nex or worse

[true talon]

Sorry this isnt a game to suit your maschoism

[rain fulcrum]

I guess the only reason its so high is that you need 3 of them per account

[meager flame]

Realistically Yama rates aren't the problem

[plucky umbra]

This isn't a personal "I want to grind longer" argument, it's a game design one

[true talon]

no its not lol

[meager flame]

I mean it is

[plucky umbra]

Oathplate is achieved way above rate in terms of the economy and difficulty of content

[hard axle]

buddy ur literally playing an iron

[meager flame]

Jagex setup a terrible precedent with things like nex

And now theyre having to work within that

[plucky umbra]

Yama is an endgame boss because it drops endgame gear and that's what they polled it as, but it does not match the difficulty of other end game bosses nor does it match the drop rates

[vernal valve]

i mean there's an argument that melee gear in general just has overtuned rates in general tbh

[meager flame]

They realized they cannot make content take that long without being yelled at

[true talon]

Seems to match every end game boss ive ever encountered.

[meager flame]

So the natural conclusion is something is easier to obtain

They need to change the rates at content where they went too far in the first place

[vernal valve]

like even bandos armor is kind of hilariously rare considering Fighter Torso is literally free and tassets often aren't even a max hit

[sage seal]

Crazy what people debate about these days

[meager flame]

Or it will keep happening

[true talon]

give an example of a end game boss that exists and is better in drop rates/mechanics than yama?

[rain fulcrum]

Just ignore the yelling?

[meager flame]

Bad game design

Thats how you get the nightmare

[rain fulcrum]

Nightmare rates r fine

[vernal valve]

I was literally going to say exactly this lmao

[rain fulcrum]

It's just the drops themselves suck

[vernal valve]

they've been mega buffed already, lmao

[true talon]

Most the screeching is just people who wanna do this.

[plucky umbra]

Nex is fairly balanced imo, both more difficult and higher droprates. CoX's rates are a bit too low for ancestral, ToA droprates a bit too high, but Yama is way way way faster to complete than any of those

[sacred oracle]

yeah i genuinely start zoning out mage soloing it

[true talon]

We need duo contracts!

[sacred oracle]

i've died several times from just drifting off during p2 and getting caught by meteor

[meager flame]

This is what I mean though about conditioning people

[sacred oracle]

there just isn't a lot to do

[rain fulcrum]

We have duo contracts but since all the contracts are 600 invo ToA nobody is doing them

[true talon]

First off thats 2 raids you mentioned and 2nd nex is not more difficult than yama, nex is absolute trash boss with no mechanics and just unreal chip damage

[sacred oracle]

p3 is fine, but the first two phases are pretty boring

[meager flame]

I almost feel the same way but I'm self aware enough to realize that those things are actually not fine at all for anyone that isn't like

[plucky umbra]

Raids drop endgame armor equivalent to Oathplate/torva in terms of use case

[true talon]

Its same trash mentality of most elitest players lol.

[meager flame]

Pretty much locked in to playing this game for way too many hours and a warped perception of time spent

[hard axle]

if it wasnt for dono, i would hate this boss

lack of skill ceiling if mage was meta would kill me

[meager flame]

Idk why I even noticed my own personal slide into that the more I played

But I do know most people playing dont do that to themselves lol

Its just most of us here are on some level super dedicated players

So it's happened to all of us

[rain fulcrum]

Endgame content is for dedicated players

[hard axle]

I want the game to last and for all content to remain relevant if possible

[plucky umbra]

I'm not trying to be elitist, but just comparing Yama to other endgame content shows how much of powercreep this update is

[hard axle]

high drop rates kill that in multiple mmos over the year

[plucky umbra]

Easy boss, low requirements, endgame gear

[true talon]

They do a great job with this, but some content (nex) should not saved.

[meager flame]

Thats kinda normal though like

[hard axle]

[meager flame]

Dt2 bosses are the same way

Before that our bis was from dks early game content

[rain fulcrum]

Also the surge pot and aether runes are kinda bad design and would probably be better off gated by quests than being tied to the boss but at the same time being an insignificant amount of profit from the boss

[meager flame]

Our mage cape is free takes like an hour

[rain fulcrum]

It just adds more power creep but this creep is not gated by anything progression wise

Except needing like a relatively low herblore level

[meager flame]

Rancour is a slayer boss before that it wasn't even a boss and so on

[rain fulcrum]

Mostly the surge pot since aether runes are just an inventory save

[plucky umbra]

Nex is fine, trios barely use any brews, there's a lot of tech and constant action to stall Nex, obviously if you're just range camping 5s at 10 tiles away you're gonna chug brews but if you learn to do the boss at a high level there's a ton of things you can do to and it's fun to do

[rain fulcrum]

It's crazy that a slayer boss can get rancour but Colo gets prayer armor

[hard axle]

nex ffa irons just use potatoes/karambwans now lol

[sacred oracle]

yeah i've always thought nex is fine

i don't know what it is about it that other players hate so much

the only reason i don't do it is i'm allergic to team content

i did it for several months tho

think i have 3k kc or so

[plucky umbra]

Nightmare is a fun fight with drops that are way too niche and way too rare, but that's its own thing

[hard axle]

i bring combo eats to nex trios to be lazy

[meager flame]

Time spent and low level of engagement to get kills

[true talon]

I dont consider a high lvl of just doing unintended mechanics to force the boss to not interact with you. thats just bad design.

[meager flame]

Tbf Yama is the same way

[hard axle]

not more than 4 brews and i barely touch it

[meager flame]

Yama is very hard if you want to do all of the tech

You just dont have to tho

[hard axle]

buddy, u think baba is good design then

[true talon]

baba is shit design

[hard axle]

that's hypocritical as shit then

[true talon]

you do the samething, you force her to not interact with you

[plucky umbra]

if step unders were unintended nex would stomp you or still attack you underneath her

[sacred oracle]

i thought nex was nice because there are so many little optimizations and strats you can do

[rain fulcrum]

Nightmare is hard to balance cuz it's got a freaking raids level of amount of uniques but isn't a raid

[sacred oracle]

it's surprisingly deep for a boss people dismiss

[true talon]

SOL is peek boss design

[plucky umbra]

Yes, and the required APM at sol is 2x that of Yama

[true talon]

You dont use any gimicks to not interact with the boss, you dont stall his mechanics, you dont get punished for playing correctly.

its just straight perfect and exeuction

[meager flame]

Ya its just if we want to praise nex for being deeper we kinda have to do the same for yama

[rain fulcrum]

Yama is deep

For p3

[meager flame]

The p3 stuff at yama is also excessive

[rain fulcrum]

P3 is legitimately good

But the rest of the fight is nothing like P3 lol

[plucky umbra]

P3 Yama is mint, p1/p2 are too easy. It's a simple fix, just drop the p3 fireballs in p1/p2 and you have a more interactive fight with skilltesting upside with the tick speedups

[meager flame]

On some level I wish there weren't filler phases

[plucky umbra]

I shouldn't be able to kick back with mage prayer on while my duo does all the mechanics

[hard axle]

bUt YoUr NoT sUpPoSeD tO dOdGe EvEryTHIng

[meager flame]

Same with nex and pnm

But

[hard axle]

idk how the fk u have problems with donofly and then think sol is peak

this is just beyond idiotic inconsistency

[meager flame]

Idk at the same time you do have to go through p3 each time if you want loot

[plucky umbra]

I wish instead of TPing you he would just go invuln at 66% and 33% and spawn the judge in the arena

[true talon]

one is intended way to do the fight by engaging with the boss, other is using cheese to bypass interacting with him

[hard axle]

you still cheese by dodging the mechanics and using tiles that dodge both fo the next possible attacks

[rain fulcrum]

Filler phases where u stand still for 15 seconds doing literally nothing r just bad

[plucky umbra]

if donofly wasn't intended then p3 Yama wouldn't be static

[hard axle]

ur incredibly selective on whats acceptable or not lmao

[vernal valve]

i will never understand the take of people playing old school runescape that despise emergent gameplay

[plucky umbra]

like if these mechanics were not intended then they would get fixed

[hard axle]

and if u put it to equal comparison, you hate one but like the other

[sacred oracle]

it's not even so much that p1/p2 are easy, it's just there's nothing to do

there's no optimizations i know of at least

you just click boss

[hard axle]

its also dumb that you say its not intended

[sacred oracle]

dodge obstacle, click boss

[hard axle]

but jmods literally say

its intended

[plucky umbra]

literally they say they knew it would be possible

and more than that, doing the fight in the way you think is "intended" is higher dps anyway, since you take advantage of the fireball speedups

[hard axle]

they wanted a variation of butterfly too, but ur saying its not intended

[hard axle]

the literal speedup mechanic

is proof they wanted it

trust me when i say if jagex to pathc something out for balance, they would

because they do it all the time

or they rebalance it

[plucky umbra]

Yama would be so much better of a fight if they just added p3 fireballs to p1/p2. One extra mechanic that people need to play around to boost inteactivity in the fight, with an upside if you dodge them perfectly

[hard axle]

let us 1t void flares please

[plucky umbra]

I can look past the Judge transitions breaking up the flow of the fight

[hard axle]

I really like it

because sgs is meta

you can force 14 kill trips

if supply drops

[plucky umbra]

If the tp animation was slightly faster I wouldn't mind it as much

[hard axle]

3-way mod db -> emberlight -> 3-way mod db -> sgs

[plucky umbra]

and also if you randomly didn't desync from your duo on the way back

[hard axle]

kills it

its so good man

and it heals 60+ if ur blood fury procs (otherwise 40)

[plucky umbra]

yeah, its fine, just wish the tps were faster

[hard axle]

a few minor issues, but overall good

[plucky umbra]

Add p3 fireballs to p1/p2, fix fight TPs to be faster and synced, adjust oathplate to be more inline in time to acquire with the equivalent endgame gear of torva/masori/ancestral, and compensate with slightly better base drops and you have a perfect boss

[drifting glade]

It gives a jag vid from a mod about the "runners" , he want this make an anti rule, which video was that?

[tacit pendant]

1ticking maze feels good. Yama really good to mindlessly grind. Mage camping on my phone on the couch has been rad

Its very similar pacing to vard, mindless as hell til enrage. But normal vard has a bit higher peaks when the stars align and you get combod by everything all at once.

The hp on void flares in p3 should be the hp in p1 and 2. Fireballs replacing the fire waves would be a good way to introduce the mechanic and keep p1 and p2 somewhat chill but still a bit more engaged

[narrow folio]

I would've taken the shovel over this horn

[tacit pendant]

Hopefully they are scheming something....

[austere mulch]

Wym, you don’t like this new niche team-based spec weapon that is only used at Yama? And for meme alter corp?

[minor whale]

Weird spot of oath being too easy to get, contracts being a slog nobody enjoys doing, and horn sucking horribly

[meager flame]

i honestly dont even think its too easy to get if you get it yourself

i do think tradable oathplate shards is like

a very obviously wrong thing to do for them

but it is what it is i guess

[austere mulch]

Yeah feels like the only thing they really got right is that Yama genuinely is a pretty fun fight and great visuals/music.

Not including the whole “duo focus” miss

[meager flame]

but generally speaking im never going to be like

this guy only did a solo boss for 70+ hours thats not enough!

lmao thats a great length of time for jagex to hit honestly

[minor whale]

Yeah Yama is a very fun, not too hard, beginning of endgame fight
Most of my deaths are from me greeding thinking I don't need to get the orbs because surely he's at 20 HP I'll get that in 4 hits

But like

[tacit pendant]

Holy market swing, price today on oath looks like a lil mountain

[minor whale]

That's where the praise starts and ends really

[sacred skiff]

Shovel was for delve anyway though, not yama

Since the crab digs

[minor whale]

Oath is a good armor set but 70 hours to replace 90% of use cases for an item set that takes 200 hours

Kinda wild

[sacred skiff]

But yes I’d 100% take shovel over horn lol

[meager flame]

yeah but thats not something wrong with yama ultimately

that issue lies with whoever decided nex should be repeated for 200+ hours

[tacit pendant]

Imo torva is more of the problem. Torva could be 20% more common and oath could be 20% more rare. Adjust those numbers as ya see fit ig

[austere mulch]

At a min, horn needs to be worth using with claws

But to actually have it not be a 90% dead item, it needs a little more

[tacit pendant]

Torva was not worth 1 bil last year for what it actually did. Compared to other 1 bil upgrades

[small anvil]

Single person horn probably could have been a thing

[austere mulch]

Either:
usable solo
Or
Works with all attack types (including range mage)
Or
Flat spec usage with a cap of 5 players (including self)

[meager flame]

idk its just complicated because i feel like

[tacit pendant]

Horn zcb would be fucked lol

[meager flame]

oathplate shards aside

[tacit pendant]

Zcb is why its melee only. There are 0 other reasons

[meager flame]

yama is pretty close to how long osrs bosses should take imo

raids are a little different but

idk

somewhere between 50 and 100 hours is pretty good imo

its a lot but its also still reasonable

[minor whale]

Yeah I don't think Yama is the problem in the equation

NM and Nex just suck

NM is a great fight

With dogshit drops

Nex is a horrible fight with great drops

[tacit pendant]

I dont have a bad time with nex, 5s are braindead, pushing duos with a skilled teamate is fun enough

Its not my favorite boss design by a wide margin dont get me wrong

[austere mulch]

It’d be pretty good yeah, less so in places where you use zcb currently (usually are well into the 90%+ accuracy range) and more so the places you don’t

[minor whale]

I'm super curious what the blog updates are gonna be on Tuesday/Wednesday

[austere mulch]

Eg. Verzik, Yama, etc

[tacit pendant]

Even horn tbow would be crazy at alot of places

[minor whale]

I'm worried this is just gonna be a "we're not open to making major changes at this time and will look at it later" like we got with ToA and last Leagues where whole ass relics just didn't work as intended and they didn't change anything at all after the first week

[austere mulch]

Or even if it’s like

+100% accuracy for Magic and range (as it is in PvP currently) and only guaranteed for melee

[tacit pendant]

Im 95% certain horn will stay as dead as ralos unfortch

[tacit pendant]

I could get behind that

Freezes would be so money

Maiden and mutta oh man

[austere mulch]

Just needs something

[tacit pendant]

I hope it does man i hope it does, needs more people yapping about it

I appreciate your campaign on this TM

[meager flame]

i think they were honestly so worried about it being usable that they just made it terrible lol

they saw people might actually use the horn for claws and noped out instantly

makes me wonder why they wanted the horn to exist to begin with

[tacit pendant]

They wanted it to be a qol maul update

[plucky umbra]

I was a horn hater from minute one, and I still find it obnoxious that since I want to solo Yama I had to bond an account and buy a horn to alt it

[meager flame]

idk why they can just tekton anything they care about maul for

[plucky umbra]

But this is what the community wanted!

[meager flame]

tbh

[tacit pendant]

Community voted on it working on claws

[meager flame]

i dont really like the design space for the horn at all and would rather it just wasn't a thing

but

if they're going to make it they could at least make it actually do something lmao

[tacit pendant]

Im kinda a fan of "bard" team buff tropes. Idm it if it actually worked

Team support is fun

[plucky umbra]

I doubt most people understood the game well enough to realize horn would guarantee a max roll claw spec

[meager flame]

i dont think team support in osrs is very fun with how they do it

conceptually i have no issue with it

in reality chasing people around or trying to stack up somewhere to use my horn or having someone miss the horn and we waste specs or wait

0/10 gameplay

[tacit pendant]

Problem with team support is nerds will just push altscape with it

But i dont think we should be avoiding making a fun game because some people will abuse

[meager flame]

like

[tacit pendant]

Honestly horns range should just be big af

[meager flame]

idk if you guys play wow but it would be like if using bloodlust required stacking up with each other

[tacit pendant]

Its literally a sound based item

[meager flame]

its just not very fun lol

now if they just allowed the horn to buff people generally in the same room as you and it was just the timing i wouldn't hate it as much

[plucky umbra]

I feel forced to, Jagex asked me the question "Would you rather solo a 145 defence Yama with 100% specbar, or a 165 defence Yama with 0% specbar"

choice is pretty obvious

[tacit pendant]

I wasnt really referencing you in this instance

[hard axle]

It's really not that hard to balance Horn for solo play btw.

I've said this before

50% spec if solo

[tacit pendant]

Just like, if they made it better and people are just dragging alts everywhere in the game

[hard axle]

25% spec if teammate

that 50% spec when solo IS to balance out maul/dwh/bgs

[plucky umbra]

i didn't think you were, but I am the nerd horn alting Yama atm

[tacit pendant]

Confliction gauntlets just also work on elder maul problem solved

[plucky umbra]

just wish I didn't have to

[hard axle]

I seriously challenge anyone to come up with an area where 100% accuracy elder maul that costs 100% spec would be busted

or 100% accuracy dclaw that costs 100% spec

we have defense reduction caps in place specifically so maul isn't too viable

[tacit pendant]

Tbf i have a cozy enough time spamming emberspecs in my solos. But your method is good

[meager flame]

i mean jagex already solved that problem

they didnt need to invent a minigame for people to use horns on each other and waste inventory space

[tacit pendant]

This is always worse than double vw

[meager flame]

what they did to tekton is fine

[hard axle]

exactly

so leave it viable outside of solos by being for maul/bgs essentially

[meager flame]

if they want you to hammer a boss just make the first hammer guaranteed

its like how they approached bank space

they try to itemize and gamify fixes to the problems*

[tacit pendant]

Well see what they do. Were still in the 1 month period jagex allows balance changes. The next balance period for this is in october 2027 tho so fingers crossed

[meager flame]

and sometimes its a lot easier if jagex just directly fixes the issue they see

instead of giving us weird little tools

[tacit pendant]

No, turkey, they need ✨ reward space✨

[vernal valve]

the strong aversion to directly fixing problems is mega frustrating, yeah

[tacit pendant]

Back to work i go, good talk rip horn

[vernal valve]

i'm still genuinely a little salty about them trying to nerf VW and then releasing burning claws of all items, lmao

[meager flame]

tbf burning claws are actually a super interesting damage profile its just that this game and how spec energy works

really drags the concept down

like

[vernal valve]

they're cool on paper but really overtuned, yeah

[meager flame]

instant damage vs damage over time is a real thing

and the burning claws have to be overtuned in that kind of scenario otherwise

they'd never be usable

[austere mulch]

• burn as a mechanic has so many quirks

[meager flame]

they should be trying to get people to try to calculate if they have enough time to get the full damage off or not

and having that be what makes or breaks the item

but because spec energy is kind of slow in general

[austere mulch]

Burn caps (which they seemingly got rid of the 5 cap per target and made it 5 applications per player per target), npc id changes clearing burn, etc

[meager flame]

its usually pretty easy to just use the burning claws when things are at very high hp

and there really isn't much of a discussion to be had if the burn will last or not

while still not wasting energy

[austere mulch]

Oh I talk about it all the time bc I feel like nobody rly acknowledges it 😬

They just insta say “oh I’ll get 4.3 dmg of burn on avg here”

[meager flame]

it happens in super specific scenarios like

[austere mulch]

And that’s really not how it plays out in a lot of places

[meager flame]

im gonna get this last spec off just as it regens and will this fit into the boss fight or not

phases can also make it not work at all

but yeah in the general sense

all of that only works if the claws are op so it rewards you for using them well

if they were actually balanced

you'd 100% of the time just drop regular specs instead

since you would have 0 downsides with direct damage and only potential losses

with burn

tbh i feel like osrs could do a lot more with debuffs/dots in general

its just so alien to the game that idk how you'd really work it in

its also high key a balancing nightmare that jagex probably isn't ready for so thats why they dont lol

[tacit pendant]

Would yall be opposed to an "anti-zcb" that scales with missing health

[austere mulch]

Another point to the spec is that dmg multipliers benefit raw-dmg spec weps at a greater proportion to something with a gimmick like burn

Bc the burn dmg is static and, in fact, as your base accuracy increases, the expected net burn dmg per spec decreases

With the sweet spot for max burn per spec being around 54% accuracy

[true talon]

He cant finish the set due to aethers at 983 kc

[rain fulcrum]

Farm more what's the problem

Dont u irons sign up for that

[true talon]

oh for sure, its just funny as fuck being almost 1k yama kc with purifying sigil and you cant use it due to aether rune catalyst

[chrome lantern]

And then unable to use aether runes for literally anything else

[tacit pendant]

Hurts too cuz that shits hella convenient, best part the update

[chrome lantern]

Arther runes sounded great until every single thing they revealed made them worse and worse for ironmen

“Aether runes exist and you can use scar essence catalysts and robes of the eye.”
“You still consume catalysts 1:1 to runes made.”
“The boss drops a decent amount but not enough to use everywhere you’d want to on an iron.” As an aside, I also thought the intent with the original statement of scar ess working on them was so that you could essentially use it as a multiplier on feasibility of getting soul runes at a premium, since you could scar ess with your soul runes to essentially duplicate your soul runes rather than zeah rc or shophop them.
“You need all your aether runes for Radiant Oathplate.”

It literally just got worse and worse from how they originally seemed to put them out

[austere mulch]

See if they made the acquisition contract actually feasible, this would be fine even for irons. But they didn’t, so this just becomes another laughable “well this sucks” grind 🤣

[sacred oracle]

by the time i got the horn drop yesterday, it was so cheap i didn't even bother selling it

was at 12m i think?

[hard axle]

call me crazy, but it should've been soul runes since it was "soul armor" for a while

[chrome lantern]

It should've been no runes

Same with sanguine torva

[hard axle]

true

[tacit pendant]

Its not common enough to be a real "rune sink"

[chrome lantern]

"This guy already put up with orbs, we could definitely wring more gp out of him"

[hard axle]

careful, they might put 200k blood runes next time

[chrome lantern]

Semirelated note, anyone remember when they talked that one time about corrupting a sang staff

Or am I making that up

[tacit pendant]

If sang just used no runes, maybe it would see use

[austere mulch]

Until 3t stick lol

Will prob be less hours to get 3t than hours to get sang, and will almost definitely be more accessible since it’s solo content

Sang on its way to being justi tier

[lament peak]

yall gotta chill 😭 jmods read this channel. im grinding my butt off every day trying to finish this set i don't need another drop rate nerf

[wispy current]

try ge

tob drops need a buff frfr

[tacit pendant]

Scythe is fine as is. Tob has no other drops

[tender harness]

Wym justicar is a fine drop

If you like being kicked in the nuts

[lament peak]

I accept that I'll probably never be able to complete tob as a prestige duo gim, so I'm glad tob drops are mediocre lol

[warm epoch]

Duo tob is really neat imo

[plush gull]

just get soulreaper axe and solo it while your duo feeds you blood shards

not sure why you would gim if not for blood shards

[neon gate]

578253 Black Demons

At least the totally real non bot midlever players are still making absolute BANK at chasm of fire https://i.imgur.com/HNfA0ul.png

really all around 10/10

[tight brook]

im just saying you need 20k worth of gear to do nex

[trail nimbus]

Anyone having issues logging in?

[neon gate]

some smart people at JAva Gaming EXperts

[nocturne solstice]

I've logged in fine, are you on west coast USA?

[neon gate]

it's kind of a good thing, byt the time they come in after their day off :) no work monday :) these will all be alch price

so they can delete and nobody will care

the master plan

unfortunately due to buy limit I had to buy 5/4h so I bought a lot at a much higher price for personal use and lost some coin :(

[minor whale]

Bad luck

[tender harness]

Solo tob with a soul reaper? Did I read this right?

[trail nimbus]

No from south Asia

[nocturne solstice]

Hmm thats odd then, I'm not too sure. Try asking in #technical-support they might be able to help you

[crimson jewel]

im also having issues twice in one hour i lose connection and cant relogg for a while

[neon gate]

https://i.imgur.com/0MJCT0T.png 1/5 on the main of this dogshit now to get a few more kc before I send the iron, 10th attempt

it's pretty fun but it's a bit repetitive, p1 especially is insanely boring

I wish normal yama was more like p2 especially it has much better pacing and feels pretty fun

[tender harness]

9 minute boss

[neon gate]

don't worry the others are slower

9 minutes is pretty important cause i don't have 83 agi on this account

so i have to prepot in narnia and i only have 1 min left on my stam

by the time i get to the boss

[warm epoch]

Just drop a stam near the entrance, tele back and forth

[tender harness]

Longest one i think is like 15 minutes?

[neon gate]

you know

you might be on to something

they need to buff the chasm tele to be less useless too

paying 20000 dollars to walk?!

[warm epoch]

Yeah lmao that tele is ass

[sacred oracle]

the teleport gets you very close, wym

we might be getting spoiled by some of the other absurdly close teleports, because this one's pretty good

you just slide down one rope then go into boss room

[tacit wharf]

train yr agility and you'd be able to go down the chain

[true talon]

problem is that rope is 83 agility. the teleport since its a drop from the boss. should put you right to the guy you talk to to enter yama's area. not right above the fairy ring.

[sacred oracle]

that's not a problem from my point of view

it's an "endgame" boss

83 agility to use tp is fine

[true talon]

whats point of having a teleport if it doesnt do anything

[ember token]

yeah the teleport shouldnt have been added

not every boss needs its own teleport

jagex has forgotten that

[sacred oracle]

it does do something

it gets you closer to the boss

you don't have to tp to house, use fairy ring, and run to chasm

you start off in chasm

[true talon]

its like 5 steps from the fairy ring lol

[sacred oracle]

it is not

[austere mulch]

It’s <20ticks for sure

[true talon]

point is, it can be better as its a pretty decentl rare drop from the boss and the dossier now

[sacred oracle]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

at some point, tps are too good imo, you don't need a tp that puts you 2t from boss

this one's fine

[ember token]

obvs they dont want to add an agility shortcut only to immediately devalue it

[true talon]

id argue some do need it...... like nightmare lol

[ember token]

nm is a different story

but like it was kinda crazy they had the giantsoul amulet teleport you directly in front of the royal titans entrance, like literally 1 tick away

[hard axle]

^ yeah this shit was like 65-70 kph because of nardah > giant soul

if it’s that close, arguably it should be untradeable

[rain fulcrum]

Scythe so mediocre

[slender vapor]

Tobs loot is entirely feat or famine

[true talon]

All tobs profit is in scythe

every single purple is worth almost nothing

unlike chambers that has a few items in the 150m+ bracket.

tob has just scythe then 1 item is 80m an rest are sub 50 lol

with mainly 1 being 40m then rest being 10m

nvm sang is 52m XD

Items are just downbad

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah eye is gonna power creep the heck outta the only real niche sang had left

[hard axle]

The triple vial of blood drop still goes hard

[hard axle]

Still think they should fuse it with something else

[hard axle]

that's what happens when you flood endgame content with junk sets

[meager flame]

tbf

sang is already dead

[hard axle]

sunfire, justiciar, rapier, ralos

[meager flame]

people just try really hard to pretend the nylo stick is like

something that really matters

[hard axle]

I will break it in half and fuse for guthans for another 10% healing

[meager flame]

but its already gone sadly

[hard axle]

thoughts?

[rain fulcrum]

I mean it does matter that u are not using a shadow in that room

It just doesn't matter whether it's a swamp or a samg

[meager flame]

yeah but you can use the sub 1m stick too

and its fine

obviously not perfectly optimal but lol

[rain fulcrum]

Eye being an attachment on sang would be cool

But it would make the Ironmen riot

Now they have to do tob

Idk why buffs for tob uniques are not on the table

When buffing cox uniques was

[meager flame]

i mean they should be honestly

even if they dont buff sang

justi should be reworked

theres just no reason for a whole set of armor from a raid to be useless dogshit

[true talon]

To be fair, at the time it was revoluationary items (besides justicar)

[rain fulcrum]

I would mainly like for them to just add a spec to ghrazi

[hard axle]

yeah, no it wasnt

[rain fulcrum]

It could easily become bis stab spec

[meager flame]

rapier and blade need something as well but like

[true talon]

Sang was massive when it released, it was stronger than toxic trident and could heal you.

[hard axle]

avernic upgrade, +1 max hit over trident, armor that doesnt reduce 50% of damage in game

mmmmmmmmm

no

[meager flame]

a whole armor set from a raid being useless is egregious

idk whats going on there

[wispy current]

why do ppl keep saying eye is just a nylo weapon isnt it really good

[meager flame]

yeah eye is very good

[true talon]

its not a nylo wep, its a i dont got shadow wep lol

[meager flame]

its just people with shadows talking about it when you hear that

[rain fulcrum]

It is but nylo is the main spot u woll use it for sure over shadow

I'm sure there r others

[meager flame]

the eye absolutely dominates pretty much everything you'd use mage on

with shadow being the next step up

[rain fulcrum]

Using shadow+eye could be interesting in some places

[true talon]

eye is also better if you dont got absolute max mage

[nocturne solstice]

Because its 3t

[rain fulcrum]

Because 5+3=8 which aligns well with some boss cycles

[wispy current]

just seems silly to complain about it like every update doesnt have to drop bis

[true talon]

Oof poor guy 😦

[tacit pendant]

I got yours bud

[ashen stump]

thanks for that update today I got a shard 😄

[lament peak]

im convinced that persons partner took all their drops

[slender vapor]

At least he got 4 d chain drops

[lament peak]

264 shards away from making 2 pieces

[true talon]

this my log, without the pet XD and 150 less kills

except i only have 230/450 shards

no idea why they increased the shards needed for oathplate. only nerfing irons twice with the drop rate change.

[lament peak]

im lucky i can combine shards with my duo partner, i only have 316 to my name. i've totally given up hope of dropping another piece, much less top/bottom

[fossil epoch]

Solos or duos?

[meager flame]

you know whats actually confusing about the d chain thing

lol why did they remove that from the drop table its not like its some kind of op what will we ever do if these are dropping kind of thing

d legs are basically the same thing

[rain fulcrum]

It will devalue kq

[vernal valve]

they saw the several reddit posts complaining about troll drops and silently removed it

it was very definitely there as a troll drop to make people think they got oathplate for a split second, lmao

especially since it'd actually trigger a clog popup for anyone who doesn't have dchain on their clog yet

[sacred oracle]

wait are you saying you can't get dchain at yama

i somehow never realized that

[fossil epoch]

yeh its just from an old droptable they had.
They also said they would remove it for the last update, but i guess they had their hands filled trying to get the contracts ready (Which we saw they werent)
We are still missing oathplate shards on the collectiong log aswell

[sacred oracle]

dear god how spooned are you

[fossil epoch]

yeh, i was just missing helm at like 170kc

[lament peak]

all duos

[lament peak]

unfortunately 5 min duos too since we conserve supplies and pass a saturated heart 💀

So 675 kills = 56 hrs so far

[winged mantle]

That's grim

Sub 3 min duo donofly goes hard

[sick sand]

Do you know if they're aware Yami isn't on the All Pets clog tab too?

[fossil epoch]

yeh that was also said to be a coming fix

[winged mantle]

they are

[fossil epoch]

Im surprised the worms and the catalyst arent clogs, when the tallow is.
But that might be because they plan to make the worm and catalyst more common drops from other sources in the future

[hasty shard]

dchains not even a troll drop imo

ok it is but on yama i doubt it is

cough cough

like i dont see them adding dchain as a terribly rare drop when stuff like toa/dt2 absolutely shit out dragon gear

[fossil epoch]

Yeh it wasnt a troll drop, just a different droptable, and jagex do generally love having items that look like the big ticket items

dlegs/skirt being red to match the armor, especially the legs was already one

but d chain while coming rarely from other sources, it would just have to be a very rare drop from yama aswell

[sick sand]

For me anyway, its more of a Nostalgia Memory Lane drop. I've only had it a few times drop ingame, but each time it brings back memory's of playing old old school, going through the W2 Fally Park Traders and buying my first D chain.

I may have lost it to a brain dead lure, but still a great memory 😄

If it wasn't a "rare" in terms of drop rate, it would lose that nostalgia as you'd see it everywhere

[hasty shard]

ignoring that i don't care in actuality, i do think jagex shouldnt have slapped stuff like 12x dmeds onto the toa loot table for that reason

like, are we gonna get a boss that drops noted whips at some point 😭

pleae

[sacred oracle]

I'm trying to find a nice way to say "I don't care about nostalgia," but no matter how I put it, it just comes out as I don't care about nostalgia. I'm not interested in doing things in the game just to remind people of stuff they did as a kid, so dchain rarity for me should just be a function of where it makes sense as a drop.

[hasty shard]

thats why i didnt try

[rare frost]

I don't have nostalgia so I feel that, I never played members content as a kid. To me a d chain is just an armour I used until my def hit 70

It's the same way I feel about tree gnome village and other old quests, to me they just seem bad and need revisiting

[neon gate]

85737383 greater demons

[warm epoch]

every day wizzy gets closer to fully losing it

[hard axle]

He’s been braindead for years

[warm epoch]

yes i remember his constant crashing days

[tender harness]

Monkey paw curls
New abyssal boss in raids 4 has chance for 30 noted whips at 1/64280 but rolling this removes your chance for loot at the end of the raid

[hasty shard]

lily drop table

[neon gate]

12441241212 lesser demons

[hasty shard]

one killion lesser demons

[tacit pendant]

Jagex gonna seek revenge and add 5% mage damage to champions cape if we keep whining

[true talon]

why does yama get magic defense in p3, lemme do the fun mage dance without splashing non stop.

[icy relic]

either bring shadow or do melee properly

[hard axle]

he gains magic defense in p1/p2 if ur the tank

[true talon]

yea he shouldnt. makes 0 sense.

he dont gain melee defense.....

Just let magic be good for once esp purging staff

demonbane in max mage on 5 tick attack speed has less dps than emberlight lol

less max hit too

[hasty shard]

i'd say w/e but they blatantly said they did not intend for donofly to be a thing

so like, y tho

if melee is intended bis (and for p3), how is donofly not expected

[hard axle]

They did say it was expected to an extent

[hasty shard]

oh

apescaping

[ember token]

you can raise them on the player owned farm in rs3

also, #1022203837265756231

[rotund lintel]

ah i saw & suggestions on the header

[ember token]

yep

[true talon]

No wonder im bad at yama, ive been using real food and pots all this time!

[neon gate]

47734637 black demons

[chrome lantern]

I wonder how long trips last in that setup

The necklaces of faith are meme though

[tender harness]

faith necks? nah you use them on pet contract

its

[chrome lantern]

Are they not reduced lol

[tender harness]

Necks arent no

Synq was using them along with pnecks

[true talon]

Pain........

[torn palm]

Oof rip I hope the rng turns around soon

[tough nacelle]

isnmt this spooned lol

its 1/200 for any piece

[tacit pendant]

In a solo

[tough nacelle]

so isnt tassili super spooned here lol

as per usual

[ember token]

if you can call getting only 3 of the least useful piece spooned

[hard axle]

still technically under the rate and he can break it down into 100 shards, putting him on pace to complete the set soon

[ember token]

yeah he should probably have enough shards for a 2nd piece

[hard axle]

All he needs is to wait for 1 more oathplate unique that he doesnt have and he should be able to make the 3rd piece

[torpid delta]

so basically, hat #4 next

[hard axle]

no, one more actual unique

in his case, it would be oathplate chest or legs

then the remaining shards could be used to make the other

[torpid delta]

i am making a joke about how instead, he will receive a 4th hat

for his next drop

[hard axle]

yes

but yeah, he's on pace to complete yama by 600-700 kc at his spooned ass rate lol

[true talon]

nope i only got like 250 shards

I would need next item to be legs/plate and then either a 4th helm or another 200 shards

[lament peak]

I looked at the rankings for yama last night and like at least 60% of the top 3000 kc are irons and that's not even counting gims

[slender vapor]

I'm not surprised

[true talon]

Its grim out here, but they must be hunting pet. because by 3k kc you should prob have enough BLP to just buy all 3 pieces.

its about 800-900 kc per piece of BLP

So its a good boss, knowing there is an end in sight. you cant just go like 20k nihil shards dry of a single torva item like nex

[brisk belfry]

Yo, since when are tortured gorillas not AFKable anymore? Is there a fix for this coming?

[slender vapor]

Intentionally changed

No fix coming

[brisk belfry]

What do you mean intentionally? I thought it was just demonics? Why did tortured gorillas get affected?

[true talon]

Because they are the same monster, only weaker. not sure why you would teven kill them

[green pewter]

There was a fully afk method to grind em out for zenytes

[slender vapor]

I'm not sure there should be a fully afk way to grind them out tbh

Just like i think the lack of aggression removing the ability for irons to get mains to tank demonics for them was a good byproduct of the aggro change

[true talon]

uhh they are 1/5k..... and your killing them with like guthans.

that is so fucking slow, your better off actually fighting demonics

[green pewter]

I never did it just pointing out why this person is probably upset it changed

[true talon]

you can just use goading potion to make them aggro

if that really matters

[hard axle]

rank 3000 is only 664 kc, which is why I'm just wondering why they randomly chose 3000 instead of everyone at that point

or a number that makes sense

[true talon]

I think they meant everyone above 3k kc is irons

[hard axle]

there's 1 person over 3k kc

@true talon

and he's not an iron

[nocturne solstice]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=poll/oldschool/results?id=1703
It was voted on and passed with 89% (not including the skip votes) so it's not a bug and there won't be a fix since it's not broken. The change was made on April 23rd.

[true talon]

oh he means 60% of the people in rank 1-3000 is irons

its worded strangely lol

[nocturne solstice]

How do you even check that

[hard axle]

^

Btw, that's not true at all

Lyra's bullshitting

[true talon]

its prob not lol

[hard axle]

You wanna know how I know?

[nocturne solstice]

Definitely doesnt look possible to find out that kinda information just looking at hiscores and wiseoldman doesnt help either

[hard axle]

I searched ironman KC

to find 664

1333/3000 people are irons

with 664kc

[slender vapor]

Under 40%

[hard axle]

tldr, lyra is lying

also, again

why 664kc or 3000th rank

[true talon]

I guess easiest way would be see what rank iron 664 kc is

[hard axle]

1333 Bazelgeuze

https://i.imgur.com/BoQRSMn.png

[true talon]

Do group irons have boss highscores?

or hcim

[hard axle]

[true talon]

well nvm there is only like 5 hcim at above 665 kc lol

[nocturne solstice]

lmao

[hard axle]

30 uims

over 664 kc

[true talon]

hehe

Yama do be kinda spooky

[hard axle]

GIMs not important enough to be ranked separately

[lament peak]

oop okay it's more like 50% but uims count too and yeah you can't specifically search gims 😦

[tender harness]

the fuck is a UIM

[hard axle]

There's between 15-15.5k normal irons, 317 uims, 112 hcims (including dead ones), so 15.5-15.9k irons.

70-71k total players ranked at yama.

[nocturne solstice]

How did you get to that 60% of the top 3000kc are irons number?

[hard axle]

That's 22.5-22.8% of players at yama are irons if we're not using random ranks

[hard axle]

Also fun fact if they wanted to use biased numbers, top 1000 players is also 47% irons

[slender vapor]

Top 1000 being nearly 50% irons is a more interesting statistic than whatever that 3000 rank cherry pick was

[nocturne solstice]

I just wanna know how you figure out what the top any percent is what account cause that would just be fun information to look at 👀

[hard axle]

Yeah, the more you cherrypick and cpa the numbers

[lament peak]

😭 it's not that serious damn

[hard axle]

sure

[nocturne solstice]

Ok so it was just misinformation then

[hard axle]

This is iron overall: https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore_oldschool_ironman/overall?category_type=1

This is shared with everyone:
https://secure.runescape.com/m=hiscore_oldschool/overall?category_type=1

Choose a rank on overall

then go manually find it on iron highscores

the kc

this will tell you how many non-gim irons are part of the total size

[nocturne solstice]

ah that makes sense

but also that is such a pain to do especially for the bigger numbers like top 1k or something haha

[hard axle]

that's why i did approximations for the final kcs after finding the upper/lower 5000 increments until reducing it down to 500-1000s to find the final ranks

like 15-15.5k total

i got lazy, but it's probably something like 15327

[winged mantle]

#game-update message did this a couple days ago

[hard axle]

@winged mantle

[winged mantle]

Cray cray

[true talon]

Yama does seem to be a good boss for money, esp the dossiers now are a fairly valueable drop.

it gives upwards of 18teleport scrolls and that alone being the worst drop is about 350k.

[nocturne solstice]

Interesting bits of information 👀
While I don't think that is enough evidence to say 30% of the population are probably ironmen (I imagine most of them are midgamers and dry at TDS) it's still interesting to see that even 21% were up there!

[slender vapor]

Pretty sure years ago jmods confirmed 30% were irons

[lament peak]

and the vast majority of bots are normies

[ember token]

yeah something around that

[slender vapor]

I'd be curious what the numbers are on ACTIVE players.

Normies -bots -people who log in to afk and bankstand at the GE

Vs irons

[true talon]

well going by their data published for anti-cheat

we can confirm that a vastmajority are bots lol

[ember token]

i mean we have no idea how far all of those accounts actually made it

[true talon]

i meant in general, not yama bots.

[ember token]

yeah in general

[true talon]

high end bots are kinda hard to get up an running

[ember token]

how many of those banned accounts get banned right off tutorial island

who knows

[true talon]

just think of how much it takes to get a normal account to yama or even raids

bots tend to go for very low barrier to entry cntent like revs/ wildy bosses/ blood shard theiving.

and lms

[slender vapor]

Sources tell me CG bots are still up and running

[true talon]

well during the bot busting stream, they visted all end game pvm an didnt find any botslol.

maybe 1 zulrah, it was mostly dk bots in guthans and ibans

[slender vapor]

They're inside the instance

They didn't sit there for 10 minutes at a time

[true talon]

true

need a teleport all player command to group em up then kill all for glorious finish

[slender vapor]

Actively grinding through CG shows you just how bad it is

Grind cg, see some guy grinding too, go to bed, wake up, see the same guy, 7 hours later, see the same guy, go to bed, wake up, same guy still there

Bot watching is a spectator sport for burned out irons afking in the lobby

Watching someone get an enh drop, to frame 1 enter cg again

No reaction

No stopping

[winged mantle]

From personal experience most of the end game players have an iron/ the main core player base play an iron now. The qol is there and sense of achievement is unmatched

[lament peak]

they probably saw the bot busting stream scheduled and logged off for the day lol

[winged mantle]

I'd wager 35% but that's just my view and not in stats

[lament peak]

or didn't check nex

[slender vapor]

Most irons have a main/normie

Very few people are just straight iron

[winged mantle]

My alt is 1500 total. Iron has all megas and almost 2200 total

Stopped playing the alt 6 years ago

[slender vapor]

My 'main' is 1970 total with like 200m in gear

My iron is 2170 with over 1b in gear

[winged mantle]

🤝

[slender vapor]

🤝

My normie is basically just for SnS raid/nex loot

And wilderness scouting

Gotta love a 2k scout alt

[nocturne solstice]

I wouldnt be surprised, it feels right.

I started with an iron and ended up focusing on the main though haha

[true talon]

same my normie was my old pure that i got 80 atk def an 77 pray on. got it ready for awakened and then didntbother lol.its about 2k total with 3b and my iron is like 2225 with 13b.

[lament peak]

my duo has around 7b combined bank value and we've barely touched raids at all yet, just enough for 2 fangs im really ocd about finishing all the lesser grinds before moving on to the annoying lengthy stuff

[true talon]

you actually accumlate a lot of gp/items on iron

[slender vapor]

Yeah, ngl 400m to 1b bank value went fucking fast

[true talon]

mine has 13b an thats after ive dropped upwards of 5b off it lol

just so many dupes

[slender vapor]

It helps that saturated heart is such a stupid price

[chrome lantern]

My iron is 13b bank maxed and my alt/“main” is 3b/2190

[lament peak]

bleh im over 700 superiors and 28m slayer without a heart, just 1 gem

[fair comet]

Congrats on your Ely Sigil. Saw that earlier.