game-update

[hard axle]

no

but yes

but no

[warm epoch]

yes for everyone, every bis should be untradable

[true talon]

Chisel superior bones into d dart or arrow tips adds relevance to vorkath past prayer

[warm epoch]

you wanna use the strong arrows? you make em

[lament peak]

Before Yama I committed myself to getting the Skeletal Visage from Vorkath... I'm 3000 kills in, no jar, vorki, or visage 💀 yama feels amazing in comparison

[vernal valve]

yeah man that's exactly what the people crave, vorkath being more relevant 😭

[true talon]

Don’t got a method to obtain them and that’s what the problem is lol

[austere mulch]

Do you have any in your bank

[true talon]

Ofc I do

[austere mulch]

So

You have a method to obtain them…

[true talon]

I don’t use them or I might run out

[true talon]

5k hours of end game pvm sure

[austere mulch]

So again, your problem is you want to use them everywhere

[warm epoch]

Ye that's my solution

[hard axle]

Another reason why it might not be the worst idea to just push all the irons onto their own server.

If you want to play an iron for the self sufficiency, you can play on that server with whatever drop rates.

If you want to play with mains at the normal drop rates, you opt for that.

[austere mulch]

That’s called entitlement

[warm epoch]

New bis ammo etc that's only untradable skilling item

[austere mulch]

[plush gull]

colo is a consistent method i doubt u can go 1-2 hours without getting arrowtips

[warm epoch]

Make skilling worthwhile >:(

[hard axle]

I'm maxed so adding skilling checks doesn't impact me whatsoever and I have time to do these skilling grinds

but a non-zero amount of folks play main because it's less chores

untradeables being mostly reserved for key skill unlocks was the norm

[slender vapor]

Make the helmet for those worlds bright yellow

[hard axle]

it's why i dont want overloads in this game

because there's literally no way to balance overloads in a fair manner

[hasty shard]

what if huasca herbs were untradeable :3c

[hard axle]

you make it untradeable? that doesn't impact shit, look at surge pot.

you make it ultra expensive? it's just rich folks using.

[hasty shard]

how fun would that be as a main!!

[hard axle]

some potions are just not meant to exist generically

[hasty shard]

yeah if surge pots were like 94 herblore they might be impactful

but they arent lol

[tacit pendant]

Project zanaris GIM is gonna be a fun little side quest

[hard axle]

It would've made more sense to require 94 herblore to USE

[hasty shard]

besides that why the fuck do they need to be untradable

[hard axle]

and kept tradeability

[hasty shard]

especially if they want to quote them not being that powerful in the same breath

[vernal valve]

Jagex finally trying to release overloads is gonna be Ruinous Powers 2.0, lmao

[hasty shard]

like ok if its not actually strong (it really fucking is) why is it untradeable??

[hard axle]

It's been a while since I did CMs, but one of the most annoying shit is forcing irons to prep so they have overloads

[tacit pendant]

Pures have to train herblore now, so players (bots) now have a profitable skilling method makinf unf pots

[hard axle]

Just let them pick up partial ovls if they're 90 herblore

[hasty shard]

i do not get why raid pots arent tradable without restriction

[slender vapor]

Just remember, no matter what, most people truly won, because pkers are malding and angry as fuck over surge pots

[warm epoch]

mostly the carrying aspect but that's sadly still very easy

[hasty shard]

as if it could be for boosting reasons when cox exists as it does

[vernal valve]

making unf potions can literally never be very profitable bc it's always hard capped by Zahur existing. 😭

[hard axle]

kinda funny ngl

[tacit pendant]

Fuck

[hard axle]

surge pots arent even that high requirements

[warm epoch]

I had a pker get very very mad at me just spamming d mace specs lmao

[slender vapor]

Herblore is now a pvp stat, and it breaks the combat meta hard

[hard axle]

I dislike the mentality that everything must be accessible to 1 def

[tacit pendant]

Horn being super cautious and pre nerfing (breaking) claws, while hitting full send on pvp surge pots is the most wild priorities

[warm epoch]

everything should be a combat stat

[hasty shard]

cant you do like 8 dmace specs in a row in BH

with lightbearer

cause you just end up regenning spec you are doing it for so long w/ pot

[hard axle]

which is also dumb. I dont like npcs letting you bypass reuqirements after you set them

[warm epoch]

on that note, is there any clarification on how the horn should work with irons? the poll blog doesn't seem to be what's implemented

[hard axle]

most skilling unlocks have an npc to bypass it

which is dumb

[tacit pendant]

Zahur is the first jagex supplied bot

[hasty shard]

ok 9 mace specs in a row

[formal sentinel]

The summary is basically "In instanced group content, it should work"

[tacit pendant]

I wanna go run like 6 dds specs with a horn alt in multi, i crave the spades

[hasty shard]

just do the rush setup of like volly dds gmaul or w/e it is

[formal sentinel]

Is Abby dagger better than DDS with horn? IIRC its spec only rolls 1 accuracy check

[tacit pendant]

Oh yeah you right. Well same thing

[hasty shard]

reminder horn only doubles acc in pvp

[tacit pendant]

Double accurate abby dag is pretty damn accurate

[true talon]

No1 cares about drop rates. I just want to have a method to use my skills to produce or obtain end game ammo for my end game items.

[austere mulch]

OSRS lore says dragon ammo is crafted from their fangs, not their bones so gg. No vorkath forced content

[tacit pendant]

P1 dark bow > pot > ags
P2 horn after dbow > vw > gmaul
sounds nasty and unblockable

[true talon]

Fangs talons technically bone

[hard axle]

Bro, you literally care about the drop rates being rng

wws

Vorkath now gives a gauranteed 2 dragon arrows per kill

Is that what you want instead lmao

[true talon]

I only care about rng srops on consumables

[hard axle]

Yes, 2 dragon arrows per kill gauranteed

[true talon]

20 per kill would make more sense this comes out to 500 per hour

Which is 1/3rd what amyethyst is

[upbeat moss]

20 dragon arrows per kill

what

[hard axle]

20

[true talon]

20 is literally 30k lol

[hard axle]

honestly, doesnt' sound too bad tbf

[hasty shard]

reminder that if anything ranged needs to be more expensive

[lament peak]

you can easily do 7 kills trips at vorkath

[hasty shard]

isnt it like 130k/h to use tbow :3c

[hard axle]

I know I'm being penisy with the 2 gauranteed arrows example, but it just goes to show

how your statements dont make much sense

[true talon]

As I said give me a method to produce dragon ammo and I’m happy

[austere mulch]

Fangs and femur are different

[hard axle]

in the end, you just want a consistent source of arrows

[true talon]

Amyethyst was made as a band aid

[hard axle]

regardless if it's guaranteed OR rng

[lament peak]

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Dragon_bar

[hard axle]

you wouldnt' say no to a 5000 dragon arrow roll that took 10 hours to land on

[slender vapor]

Dragon dragons or riot

[hard axle]

avernic dragons

[true talon]

I want the ability to farm them when I do my prep phases

[hard axle]

crystal dragons

[true talon]

Currently we don’t have that

[austere mulch]

You need a better reason other than “I want to be able to use them everywhere just because mains can”

[hasty shard]

crystal dragons are a thing alreadyyyy

angrygunshoot

[[crystalline dragon]]

[ornate wolf]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Crystalline_Dragon

[hard axle]

they can use it too

they just dont want to grind for it

from existing sources

[true talon]

Sounds like a fair reason to be able to produce end game items when your on an end game account

[hard axle]

you can, it's just pvm grinding tbf

[meager flame]

Are we talking about arrows again

[true talon]

I don’t consider rng drops a method to produce

[hard axle]

yes

its that time of the week

month

year

[true talon]

I don’t even know how we got on this discussion lol

[meager flame]

The main reason it sucks right now is because you grind for the drop longer than it takes to shoot the arrows

[hard axle]

u started on yama lootboxes

[meager flame]

It's trash lol

[hard axle]

[austere mulch]

X - sounds like entitlement for a game mode where you opted to gather resources yourself, have a large supply of them in your bank, but intentionally pick and choose where you use them. A decision that is unique to irons

[meager flame]

It would be like if doing a birdhouse run actually took 40 minutes of attention

And was the only reasonable way to get nests

[true talon]

Oh the guy mad at about having to do wgs for synapse weps and surging pots to do Colo once he got his double death charge. Was compared to me wanting d arrows.

[hard axle]

it reminds me of the whole uim thing

where technically it's not affecting me

but some uims want to be able to store all armors

[hasty shard]

granted amethyst could do with not sucking so much ass

[hard axle]

and it's fun to watch uims fight each other about this

[compact flicker]

Yes

[true talon]

Not entitlement. It’s a functional process of end game to have end game items. Some items are not produacable for irons which is a design flaw.

[hasty shard]

cant even target farm the shitter ammo because its afk method

[hard axle]

the "flaws" is why you play an iron.

It's why uims play uims

lack of a bank is not a flaw

[hasty shard]

and you get half the amount of amethyst darts because why not
and it has like -4 range str to ddarts

[meager flame]

Idk it's really obvious what's wrong the process of actually obtaining arrows just sucks and takes way too long to be like

[lament peak]

farm it on second monitor while playing another game

[meager flame]

Something you would actually do

[austere mulch]

It’s not fair that mains can just buy scythe. It should be made untradeable

[compact flicker]

Not being able to craft the highest tier ammo is pretty sucky, but then again I didn't make my ironman with any intent of chasing speedruns so pink ammo work good

[meager flame]

All d arrows are just accidents going into your bank

People just want a method actually worth doing to target them

[hard axle]

the only issue is that if you are able to convert dbones into arrowtips, it negatively impacts mains who get it as a drop because it ties the two items together

[austere mulch]

Aren’t current max gear amethyst on equal footing with pre bp-nerf dragon

[true talon]

It’s just multiple hours of green log content to obtain something with no garuntee you obtain it when you start

[hard axle]

which is why i rather they jsut add more sources

[austere mulch]

Or is that with treads

[hard axle]

instead of making a conversion method

[true talon]

You don’t understand if you never had a prep phase

[meager flame]

Idk about the dragon bone thing in general they just need something

[hasty shard]

doesnt change it being -4 over dragon

also the main thing i think about there is that you get fucked over with baba boulders from the max loss

like u gotta range pot to one hit really or just have like full masori on

[austere mulch]

Ez fix with treads 🤣

[hasty shard]

cringe

sure

are treads +3 i forgot

[austere mulch]

Yeah the completed version

[true talon]

Conversion methods are better, because it removes things to add consumables

[winged mantle]

What the hell did I just read

Are people actually upset you can't have consistent d darts or d arrows on an iron?

[meager flame]

But yeah idk if I had a way to intentionally go for arrows I would actually spend time on it jagex just didn't provide a way to do so

So I just dont

[true talon]

Many end game irons are esp ones who care about records or times

[austere mulch]

Conversion method isn’t always a great solution tho. In the context of superior bones, you get the following:

Faster method of obtaining than amethyst - so now amethyst is effectively useless. This crashes price of the ammo + the bones which is negative for mains

Or you severely limit the number of ammo pieces per bone, which again crashes the price of bones as more ammo is generated from content drops

[vernal valve]

hilarious quiver was extremely conservative w/ range str boosts to the point where it's +1, +2 with charges and not on every ranged weapon

And now they're just dropping the Treads on us LMAO

[true talon]

I just like to make it a problem, but idc either way lol. I see it as an issue and it is.

[meager flame]

And yeah of course they want a way to get dragon ammo

Why wouldn't they

[winged mantle]

Rune arrows and rune darts have been good enough for most content. You only ever need to use d darts or d arrows for speed cas and awakeners orbs

[meager flame]

Assuming you're not some kind of like

[true talon]

It’s not about what’s good for most content. I dunno why you don’t get that.

[meager flame]

Broke mid game account or something

Dragon ammo gets used

[hard axle]

No, it's just that people want different things

[winged mantle]

It's not something that's ever going to be craftable sustainably

[meager flame]

It's just there is no good way to go get it

[true talon]

It’s about the principal of using a tbow which is weaker by default due to having no methods to obtain end game items

[hard axle]

even at the cost of other game modes

[hard axle]

"weaker by default"

[austere mulch]

Why would an iron care about records when mains will always have a significant supply advantage and have some records be outright unobtainable because of trading, Veng, etc lol

[upbeat moss]

theres NO way to get them on an iron

thats crazy

[true talon]

Yes having ameythst arrows or darts makes your weps weaker than they should be when you a end game account

[austere mulch]

That’s like “man, I really want to get the 1def only record for tob”

Nobody cares about that

[hard axle]

CM recs rarely have irons for that reason

[winged mantle]

Like hell I'd love a way to break down dragon chain skirts to make dragon ammo but I don't think they will

[true talon]

No1 cares about your records literally for mental illness players to obess over.

[meager flame]

The only dragon ammo in the game that actually costs

Are darts

[lament peak]

I wouldn't be surprised if dragon bars were a thing in the next 5 years, maybe with the smithing rework. So ammo crafting might be a thing

[hard axle]

are you dumb

you literally brought up records and times

yourself

[meager flame]

Everything else is basically free especially for mains

[hard axle]

???

[upbeat moss]

#game-update message

[austere mulch]

You just said end game irons care about records, what are you talking about lol

[true talon]

They do, but I’m not one of them. I’m using it as an example to sustain my claim

[hard axle]

Dude, I've literally had to fight off other irons' commenting that you shouldn't be allowed to pick up others' overloads, even when you have 90 herb

[meager flame]

Idk why records etc it's way more simple than that

[hard axle]

CM 5s with irons is inferior by default to CM 5s with mains

[meager flame]

I wanted an avernic because it's better than a d def

I cast ice barrage over burst even if it's a little more expensive

The game design is just dumb when it comes to specifically arrows

[winged mantle]

To me dragon arrows and dragon darts are a luxury item that you use sparingly. Not really an ammo you spam at every piece of content

[meager flame]

Yeah and that sucks if they did that to other consumables people would freak out

[hard axle]

Did you shoot dragon arrows at Whisperer Ghosts because "it's otherwise a downgrade"

[vernal valve]

any endgame irons i know who ended up caring about recs/speeds to that extent deironed, because as they pointed out, you just can't hit a bunch of recs fundamentally on an iron

[hasty shard]

what if you miss on them!!

[vernal valve]

and it's not just bc you run out of dragon ammo, lol

[true talon]

Makes no sense to be an end game acc and have no access to the same as others. All because you have to get it yourself. But given no methods to get it.

[upbeat moss]

deiron

[hard axle]

not being able to accept venge/pot share/heal other is detrimental as fuck

for speeds

same for trading items like pnecks

[meager flame]

Theyre honestly probably going to change that

[winged mantle]

You adapt to how the iron game is

[hard axle]

he doesn't want to

[meager flame]

Tbh

[hard axle]

we've spoken to him about this for years

just use amethyst arrows at levi

[true talon]

I have more than you so pipe down you literally don’t know anything lol.

[meager flame]

Idk why they dont just make scar essence ammo

[hard axle]

"nah"

[hasty shard]

or bowfa

[meager flame]

Priced higher than for mains

[hasty shard]

levi prime bowfa angle

[vernal valve]

prob bc dragon ammo isn't tied to floor prices like runes are

[winged mantle]

Lol

[hasty shard]

are we really suggesting scar mine 2.0 😭

[true talon]

I’m bringing it up as an issue as a whole not a personal problem

[hasty shard]

i think its neat but at the end of the day holy ironman catering

[vernal valve]

in just 1 year Dragon Darts have gone from 900 each, to 3k each, to 2k each

[winged mantle]

It sounds like a personal issue

[true talon]

It’s not

[meager flame]

Yeah I mean I already shopscape everything anyways

[vernal valve]

setting a hard price for something with price that volatile isn't really great

[winged mantle]

Then phrase it in a constructive light

[austere mulch]

“End game irons care about records”
this is false but whatever “Nobody cares about records. They are for mental illness”
“End game irons do care, just not me”

[hard axle]

This is why I brought up the 2 guaranteed dragon arrow per Vorkath kill - partly because I know it's not about it being rng or guaranteed.

Tass will complain regardless if it's not 10 hours of usage per 1 hour of effort.

[winged mantle]

Don't demand things

[austere mulch]

Crazy progression there

[hasty shard]

i think we just need ammo higher than dragon at this point to ignore the issue

[meager flame]

If jagex has to do those gymnastics to fix something that sucks fine at this point

[hasty shard]

everyone benefits!!1

[meager flame]

Better than doing nothing

[true talon]

I literally don’t care. I state it as a problem, because it is. If it gets changed then ok.

[hasty shard]

prayer regens :erm:

[hard axle]

Amethyst Darts are literally 1 hour of mining for 6 HOURS of usage

people still complain

[true talon]

I’m fine either way. But if no1 says anything then it never gets addressed.

[hard axle]

this I agree with to an extent

[winged mantle]

Suggest ways that people could access them 👀

[meager flame]

The only part of amethyst darts that is kinda weird is that

[true talon]

Just like blood runes and ingots

If no1 said anything then they would still be awful

[meager flame]

You make half as many and shoot them faster but at the end of the day

[hard axle]

which is why, again, I'd rather more dragon arrow and dragon arrowtip sources

[meager flame]

It's fine you can make your ammo

Theyre weird about darts in general

[hasty shard]

its dumb that dragon ammo is as cheap as it is despite not having decent sources tbh

like its wild tbow is so cheap to use compared to the other megas lol

almost half of its benefit

[meager flame]

It's because of the crowd sourcing

Although tbh

[compact flicker]

If they make the highest tier ammo craftable, it will no longer remain valuable as it'll be mass crafted
They won't release untradeable ammo
The ultimate best of both worlds would be making the gap in power between the two types as small as possible while not to the point of making dragon pointless

But is this not where we are at now?

[meager flame]

Now that they can ge tax and attack whatever they want

They dont really need to sink items with weapons

[vernal valve]

no worries they balance this by releasing 1 tbow boss every 3 years

[hard axle]

It is where we are now, except amethyst is the tradeable downgrade

[compact flicker]

I don't know much about calc sheets, would making amethyst -2 from dragon instead of -4 be impactful?

[meager flame]

Also end end game iron is actually a bit broken

[hard axle]

Not as much, but it will drag down the value of ddarts

[compact flicker]

Hmmm

[vernal valve]

ge tax is a bit iffy to rely on bc the more they use it to tax items, the less it's doing its job of being a gold sink

and inflation is already p. bad in the game currently imo

[meager flame]

Jagex hasn't caught up with those players at all and basically

You just buy charges from shops with gp

[true talon]

Bots is the reason for this

[meager flame]

For like everything

[true talon]

Brutal black dragons and vorkath bots

[meager flame]

And they really could use some actual gameplay instead to do stuff

[hasty shard]

ok yeah fair

[hard axle]

it's beacuse arrows don't vanish when shot

yall are always sleeping on assembler

that's 99% why ranged is so cheap

1% of it is bots

[meager flame]

Soul runes for example are busted currently

[hard axle]

bots would not be able to keep up if arrows didn't get saved 80% of the time

but do you really want that?

[hasty shard]

my personal idea was just the dragon ammo sidegrade stuff; gets to hold an actual value easier and isn't just iron content since you'd want it for certain scenarios

[true talon]

Wouldn’t care if it’s 1 arrow per shot if I can actually get reasonable amount. The only reason assembler exists to save ammo is because it’s so scarce.

[meager flame]

Scar essence price is wrong so you buy from shops anyways

[hard axle]

imagine if shadow saved a charge 80% of the time

runes would be at shop sell price

[tacit pendant]

Arrows are not related to game update and nobody is gonna change tass' mind lol

[hard axle]

do not underestimate the cost save nature

[meager flame]

They need the true soul altar and like soul essence

[true talon]

Runes are already shop price lol

[hasty shard]

:erm: and thats why i made my sidegrade concept always break

[meager flame]

And bosses like yama should drop it

[hard axle]

its stupid that we have to point out the obvious and tass immediately shifts to blaming bots

[winged mantle]

Why argue with a brick wall

[minor whale]

Legit
When all ammo is saved 80% of the time you're just not gonna have expensive ammo
Darts are only expensive because of how fucking many you go through, but a 5 tick weapon that only loses 1 ammo every 40 ticks is cheap as shit

[hasty shard]

javelins broke always because lol

its not like they cant manually tweak ammo usage

[true talon]

95% of what’s said in here doesn’t pertain to game update

[hard axle]

it's frustrating because im not arguing with ignorance

it's intentional density

[minor whale]

Javelins were old weird game stuff they just didn't fix for a decade

[hard axle]

he's purposely ignoring shit because it doesnt suit the agenda

[minor whale]

You used to throw them and throwables were weird

[tacit pendant]

Its not worth your effort

[hard axle]

ragebaited easily

i cannot deal with illogical folks well

it's like how people were bringing in their feelings and vibes during the bp nerf discussion

[slender vapor]

Zenyte arrows

[hard axle]

when we had numbers

[minor whale]

I think there should be a slow way of getting dragon ammo items, but that does already exist by doing Colo
That entire update basically solved dragon arrow problems for irons capable of running even just up to wave 6

[hard axle]

and its already processed from CG

[minor whale]

Rng is rng but over time it's an average amount that's pretty damn decent

[meager flame]

I mean it's not solved unless you think grinding for the ammo longer than it takes to shoot it is solved lol

[tacit pendant]

Plus collo is so fun. I need to go back and do cas 🙂

[meager flame]

Could just do duke and be happy if that's what we like

[hard axle]

like i said above

i dont think folks will ever be happy

until its like a 1 hour grind to 10 hours of use

1:1 is not enough

for those folks

[meager flame]

I mean id be happy if I could grind ammo for like a day and shoot that for a week of similar play time on the other days

[hard axle]

we have folks sub-99 rc piping up about rc bad and based on the fact that a certain someone is barely 90 rc, he has likely never crafted a single soul rune in his life pre-scar essence

[hasty shard]

i am a 1:3 sort of person

[meager flame]

It could even be less than that

[plush gull]

i dont mind if dragon dart source is added but colo already gives consistent dragon arrows

[meager flame]

But if it's 50/50 or worse id hate it

[hasty shard]

i think the rc loop is just shit more than the xp

bank presets when

this is how i felt about like, 3t4g too and i was happy about infernal shale at first

turns out they were desperate to add bot content instead

[meager flame]

I just think for things other than dragon ammo especially runes

[tacit pendant]

150 dragon arrows per hour at collo. So 500 shots or about half an hour of tbow usage

[meager flame]

It's interesting how jagex can't make content to compete with making gp and spending at shops

[plush gull]

whats ur math for 150 per hour

[minor whale]

Dragon arrows aren't intended to be a mass consumed item for irons though
It's like their whole deal
You pull them out when you need that slight extra boost but it costs you a lot of time to get more

[plush gull]

and thats not half an hour of tbow usage

[meager flame]

Like their tuning is so bad they're scared to allow players to actually have gameplay that's faster than shops

[plush gull]

even with constant firing u use 1200 per hour or 240

[winged mantle]

Wiki shows 198 per hour at 2.5 wave 12 completions

[tacit pendant]

Drop rate of dragon arrows, assuming 2 kc per hour

[plush gull]

and how is it possible to fire 240 in an hour anywherep

[minor whale]

Even the wiki mmg shows 200 dragon arrows/hr with only 24 minutes completions

[hard axle]

24 minutes

in this economy?

[tacit pendant]

Avas assembler save rate is roughly 3.5 ammo/shots fired. Tbow shoots 1,200 shots an hour constant 5tick use

Im calcing some theoritical u never ever stop firing bs

[hard axle]

yep, the theoretical endless fire is always ALWAYS making it look even worse

[tacit pendant]

Im being conservative in literally every part of the equation

[plush gull]

its enough to sustain dragon arrows if u use tbow+venator

[hard axle]

once you factor in practical downtimes, you're basically shooting it 10-20% of the time max

[hasty shard]

you can also just do bowfa colo

[minor whale]

How is it 3.5 btw

[hasty shard]

0 cost/h

[minor whale]

Assembler it's 5/ammo

[tacit pendant]

So at worst an hour of collo = 30 minutes tbow nonstop. But realistically you get better at collo as u grind so

[plush gull]

bofa colo 😭

[hard axle]

You know how long I spent burning through a white stack (100k) of dragon arrows?

8 months of WFH with venator bow slayer.

[hard axle]

You can look at my skotizo rank

[tacit pendant]

Ope 3.5 is accumulator lmfao

[hard axle]

nearly all of my skotizo totems, which I despawned like 20+

were from venator bow dragon arrows

[minor whale]

Yeah you use 240/hr of constant firing

Which isn't happening anywhere

[hard axle]

I have 560 kc skotizo kc/totems

so

[minor whale]

So it's basically break even time investment between shooting and obtaining
It's a way better value proposition than bloods used to be where it was like 4 hours of blood rc for 1 hour of scythe use lmao

[tacit pendant]

And giga gamer can get those dragon arrow per hour numbers way up from collo

Not to mention you get other stuff at collo

[hard axle]

100k dragon arrows lasted me 8 months of WFH, which IS constant firing outside of turael skipping

the average player will never play as many hours as I afked

i'd argue the average hlc will never actively play as many hours as i afked

[plush gull]

bofa is so much worse dps than blowpipe at colo

i mean technically i was able to do a sub 26 bofa run so it definitely offsets the 2m per hour in dragon darts and makes more money

but anyway bofa badd

also fuck i want to do colo instead of dying to yama enrage after 15 mins of mindless p1 p2

[tacit pendant]

Soulreaper axe the whole thing like a real man

[plush gull]

i mean ive done that, also got sub 26, but the early waves are more than a minute longer without venator

[tacit pendant]

Whats scythe upkeep these days 500k an hour?

[plush gull]

u mean the xmas thing? it doesnt cost anything to use

[tacit pendant]

Yeah totally, thats the scythe im thinkin

[plush gull]

scythe has positive combat stats i should try colo with it

wow its 7 ticks

[tacit pendant]

At 7 ticks and no stats they should just give it the 3 hit splats lol

[plush gull]

it has 8 slash 10 str

so maybe it does 60% of barehand dps

good with oathplate too

[tacit pendant]

I wonder if/what content scythe cost per hour makes sra/ember technically better for mains. Maybe duke?

[plush gull]

idk i think people would pay a lot per hour to not use painfully slow weapons

[tacit pendant]

Must just be vard/yama then lol

[winged mantle]

Pet hunting if you don't want to spend lots for scy?

[hasty shard]

you may slightly want scy switch at yama just to fill in ticks

[winged mantle]

But then again any place where you don't spam blood shards?

[plush gull]

yeah scythe is 7t so its easy to use at yama enrage

[winged mantle]

Scy is 5 tic?

[winged mantle]

Wrong one

[plush gull]

yama is 7 ticks attack with 70 ticks wave

i wonder what 7t methods would look like u shouldnt need complicated fly stuff

dh is 7t too

[winged mantle]

Lol you're baiting surely

Scythe of vitur is 5 tic
Yama is 8 tic

[plush gull]

7 tick in enrage

[winged mantle]

Ah i thought you mean the whole fight

[tacit pendant]

Dh butterfly, somebody please lab it

[plush gull]

what am i supposed to do against this boss 😭😭:sob also his p3 basic attacks do chip damage through prayer??

[narrow folio]

1. Identify the hourglass pattern
2. React to the pattern
   A. Vertical: left/right, diagonal, up/down
   B. Horizontal: up/down, diagonal, left/right
3. Change prayer
4. Reset to start tile

Adjust based on wave timing, may need to pause after skipping one wave if the hourglass is horizontal, if vertical, shift back to start tile but left/right to dodge

If you get hit offpray, stay on the same prayer for next auto

[frail bough]

yes, exactly this

you're running around like a chicken 😄

also cast mark of darkness

[narrow folio]

Find the tiles for wave skip, you click when the X crosses the tile

[obsidian venture]

But you do care if you keep mentioning it every time someone says darts or arrows. Don’t play dumb mate

[narrow folio]

Videogamebot guide is great

[hard axle]

uh

so

you know there's an updated method right

[obsidian venture]

Videogamebot has some tragic guides in general

[hard axle]

0 damage outside of small chip which you can reduce with ward of arceuus

for solo and duo

[narrow folio]

For this one specifically it helped me a lot for mage p3

He didn't explain some stuff I figured out myself but the example is good

[hasty shard]

wait does ward always give -1

is current bis method gregfly or

[plush gull]

i was praying mage and the mage auto hit a 3 😦 DH dreams ruined

[hard axle]

i think it reduces by 2

[hasty shard]

watte

[granite tiger]

Any chance they let us break down dupe oathplate pieces for any amount of shards? Just got a dupe helm...

[winged mantle]

Doubt it

[hard axle]

there's already like 2 different forms of dupe protection, so probably not

[obsidian venture]

If it was untradeable maybe

[hard axle]

^

if it was untradeable shards, no issues

the standard 1:3:2 ratio for head:body:legs components for masori/torva works well tbh

[hasty shard]

untradeable shards that only work with other untradeable shards

[granite tiger]

it just feels pretty bad getting a dupe on the iron. I'd even be cool with it being significantly less than a piece's worth of shards like 100 or so. Anything to make this feeling go away lol

[obsidian venture]

That do be rng

[icy relic]

hit 5 bcps before tassets and hilt

iron life

[chrome lantern]

Yeah I got 3 bcp 5 tassets before hilt at 1394 but we move on

5 rings 5 leathers 5 tails 5 axe drops 5 knives drops before lance at hydra too

[plush gull]

🤔

[tacit pendant]

Well played, you seem to be improving, horrible ui btw

[true talon]

I’m neutral if it don’t change then ok. If it does then ok. I bring it up as a problem so that it gets attention

[tacit pendant]

"Im neutral"
"I bring it up as a problem"

[plush gull]

i guess u have to move every 3 ticks for the hourglass instead of faster?

[obsidian venture]

If you’re neutral then you simply wouldn’t talk about it 🤣

Instead we have multiple discussions with you on it, literally favoring one side

I’d take some time to breathe in and out a few times and then re-read what you have said. Hopefully you can see how you’re contradicting yourself everytime you type

[small anvil]

I think this sums up tassili's opinions

[icy relic]

2nd horn no oath

[meager flame]

if you're maging the last phase of yama

those two tiles are the entire guide

you can use others too but lol

you legit just post up on the one closer to the throne dodge all the waves by moving 1 tile to the correct spot

and step onto the one in front just before the waves touch it to dodge waves

until the boss dies

there is an awkward overlap where you'll have to run a diagonal right out of a wave skip due to the fireball pattern you got

but you can honestly just tank that hit if you mess it up

[formal sentinel]

Well, and learning to step the hourglass fireballs.
I learned today that you can end back up on your starting square to dodge the 3rd set, which is much better than the up and over I was previously ending on

[meager flame]

yeah but dodging that is kind of reactive and the same no matter where you are

like on those two tiles the only bad thing that can happen with those

[formal sentinel]

Yeah. Only thing that takes any thought to learn with it is wave skipping when it start on a N/S line instead of E/W

[meager flame]

is if you get the north south fireball line when you have to step forward to dodge waves

[hard axle]

okay so

[meager flame]

you'll have to take another step diagonal to really fix that

[hard axle]

do you want to know the trick?

[formal sentinel]

For wave skip with N/S fireball? yeah

[hard axle]

1 tile perpendicular to the line

oh

no

that one u really just want to facetank melee

[meager flame]

thats like the one moment where you kinda gotta play the game a bit

[hard axle]

melee is significantly more chill because he does not drop fireballs

even 1 melee/1 mage is better imo

[narrow folio]

Vertical fireball line I skip wave then immediately run back south but one tile to the left

[hasty shard]

uh that one i think so long as you havent lost ticks you can start next to throne and run like 6 tiles south 1 west

or it is tick loss idk

[formal sentinel]

Yeah I know the one tile perpendicular, I just hadn't pieced it together that you can effectively walk in a circle (triangle I guess) with the 3 steps instead of away each time

[hasty shard]

i keep fucking up enrage

[meager flame]

the most deadly part of this boss is honestly p2 when you're checked because you're at almost 600 kc

[hasty shard]

talking about wave skip for fireball set thats after orb spawns right?

[narrow folio]

Yeah ive been doing a pattern where I need to take one more step to get back to the tile. But if theres an easier pattern I need to work that out and relearn

[meager flame]

lmao its easy to do something really silly with the meteor

[formal sentinel]

The red x escape?

[narrow folio]

Hows that work?

[hasty shard]

stepunder yama as it happens then red x melee i think

[narrow folio]

Lol

[hard axle]

no red-x needed

[hasty shard]

[hard axle]

step back 2 tiles right as he says "infernus"

and then attack move in

the moment u attack

manual path 2 more tiles away

sec

[formal sentinel]

The clip I saw had them running away & towards Yama, so I think it was just red X with run on, when the text appears but the meteor hasn't yet

[hard axle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YcaJILexh4

it's legitimately braindead

[meager flame]

ya but that implies you're paying any attention

[hard axle]

[formal sentinel]

So a red x

[hard axle]

yeah ive died plenty not paying attention

[hard axle]

u can manual path out

without red-x

[hasty shard]

just eat the chip tbh

[formal sentinel]

I'll learn all this when I eventually melee him.
Which will be in about 75m, plus several attack levels or additional gear improvements

[full shell]

Remove chasm teleports from the dossier idk what intern wanted that in there but it should’ve never been added

“More common than orbs” yeah okay

[tacit pendant]

Chasm tele not skipping agility shortcut makes them so dumb anyways

Hardly a timesave for those with the agility level, and useless to the agility haters

[hard axle]

please teleport it downstairs

the quantity makes sense if it's good

[wispy current]

Make armor shards untradeable and change the guaranteed item contracts before friday please jagex

[neon gate]

I love killing 50,000 black demons for contracts to transmog endgame armor to re-grandmaster

I love it so much

what great amazing fantastic endgame content

I am glad I am doing literal 2004 pvm instead of the new hard mode of the new 2025 boss

Maybe path of exile mechanics would be better off left in elon musk game instead of forcefed into osrs

[restive siren]

[neon gate]

Fuck it make it 60,000

[hard axle]

i have some faith that it will be better than orbs as long as u dont lose contract before completion

+100k death fee though

[true talon]

True glad im not a zuk helmer lol.

[hard axle]

I normally would say that's cope, but frankly, it's just a time sink and you've got plenty of that

[meager flame]

i mean

if you can repeatedly attempt it until you succeed it would fix everything people are upset about

but theres just no way they do that

they have contracts that give guaranteed loot

im waiting obv to see exactly how it works but

[true talon]

I cant get awakened bosses down

[meager flame]

it really looks like the whole "we learned from orbs" thing was just straight bs

[torpid delta]

they did say the only CA that requires contracts will just require any 1 contract so like

that at least can't be that horrid

[meager flame]

thats pretty lame in its own right

if the CA is just go grab the worms contract because its easy then its like

idk lol why even make it

i do understand the resentment some people are starting to feel so hopefully its not the flop it looks like its setup to be

because if it is bad

they better never say "poe" again

lmao

[torpid delta]

the poe updates will continue until morale improves

[hard axle]

I'm assuming ur not a bad player skillwise and it's really just bashing ur head against the wall to get zuk helm

[true talon]

Correct. its a wall im not gonna run into.

[meager flame]

at the end of the day a lot of those CAs are pretty idk

achieveable i guess is the best way to put it

[hard axle]

they're not hard, its just knowledge gap above all

[meager flame]

its just about if people are willing to deal with the consequences of trying to complete them

like

finding other people or resetting until you get a certain time or just being willing to learn some bosses you might not really care about

[hard axle]

25 perfect tobs done for the homies

u need to know a psychopath like me

[neon gate]

iron

[hard axle]

and?

[neon gate]

dressed like a clown at the circus farming arclight shards for emberlight to practice

https://i.imgur.com/6hSmfj8.png

[hard axle]

if it doesnt vanish, u get enough dossiers just by farming oathplate

[true talon]

Ye i got masters and im happy. zuk helm is a wall im not run into an then they start shit like this contract stuff that you know its gonna be on zuk helms lol.

[neon gate]

I am 99.9999% sure it a consumable

one contract per attempt

that is what it is in the blog maybe if we complain enough they will backtrack and try to gaslight us instead of admitting ever being wrong

But the oathplate and horn contracts are even wrose

You get 1-2 of them per pet rate

[tender harness]

Complaints still haven't got them to remove surge pot

[neon gate]

Nobody has or will one and doned an awakened tier boss

So it's either practice on main, drop, or service

[hard axle]

that's why im hoping they dont make it consumable upon death

instead of moping and groaning

im coping

[tender harness]

Watch contracts be 1nd do it till you win and never again

[hard axle]

[neon gate]

it's a rip off of path of exile which apparently it is always a one off in

[hard axle]

ym is a rip off of poe

[neon gate]

I don't play poe

but arcane said on reddit that he loves poe and it's a poe thing

[meager flame]

they have compared it to poe directly lol

[neon gate]

Maybe if he loves poe that much there is a different game studio he could work for

[tender harness]

But before he works for GGG delete surge pots

[meager flame]

lmao the thing that i think is going to go wrong

is that theres nothing wrong with inspiration from other games but the way he gave his thoughts opened him up to the whole

"THIS ISN'T POE" type of mentality when it doesn't go well

[tender harness]

Oath plate contract will accidently drop torva
Calling it

[hard axle]

this is a dentge response

[obsidian venture]

[hard axle]

games should borrow the best parts from other games

every mechanic in this game was in other mmos already

[tender harness]

Poe contracts suck though

[hard axle]

yeah ofc, but im saying they can tweak it

[tender harness]

Which i agree they can

[meager flame]

i think they're just honestly on the wrong path in general

they're doing all of this shit so they can give more gp to noobs

thats it

[tender harness]

Huh

[meager flame]

contracts exist exclusively so you sell your contract to port and some of his gp enters your bank

thats the whole idea

they are making it so hard on themselves lol

[narrow folio]

I didn't know contracts would be this rare. Would've voted no.

But seeming more of a do once kind of deal just like orbs

[meager flame]

if you actually dont believe that though about contract for real

just read their blogs

[wispy current]

They seem more rare than awakener orbs lol

[small anvil]

it's just so hard to square away the claims made in that contract blog post

[meager flame]

they talk about wealth redistribution specifically

[small anvil]

with the drop rates

[meager flame]

thats the whole idea they're stuck on

[small anvil]

they're like 5x rarer than orbs or smth?

[tender harness]

I dont think they even know what they want contracts to be

[narrow folio]

It's crazy

[tender harness]

They're just there

[small anvil]

probably more than 5x

it's 1/120 kills and you have to assume solo

[meager flame]

im pretty sure they just gave us a bs drop rate while they contemplate what they should actually do

i expect the real rate on thursday

[small anvil]

for ONE of the cosmetic contracts

[wispy current]

Its invocations v2. Make the boss inclusive to all skill levels

[meager flame]

but realistically for the content to be the most fun

contracts would never exist

[hard axle]

that's why i think it might be consume on completion and not death

[tender harness]

You get contracts from greater demons though not even just the boss

[small anvil]

like the rates are so bad and not in line with what was said

[meager flame]

you would simply challenge yama to whatever difficulty of fight that you wanted

and do the content

[small anvil]

that they HAVE to change something

or have it not be 1 to 1 with orbs

[meager flame]

the contracts exist to interact with the games economy and they're just a barrier to actually playing

idk why they keep coming up with stupid ideas like this

[small anvil]

no way its keep it til you succeed tho rat

like 0 chance they do that

[hard axle]

[small anvil]

they might do guaranteed drop of contract on success

but like

[wispy current]

Like u dont lose contract til u accomplish it?

[small anvil]

thats no different than perma unlock

[meager flame]

that would work if they didn't have uniques on the line

[hard axle]

yeah

[tender harness]

It probably is knowing jagex.
The blog made it seem like they didnt even know what they wanted

[meager flame]

but since they do

i have no idea how it will work

[true talon]

POE system is fucking terrible, i interacted with poe2 for 500 hours and gear rolls and consumables on SSF was so bad that i just decided id play trade. untill i gave up sick of sitting on a trade website messaging bots and scammers.

[wispy current]

They’ve already said its one contract per attempt

[true talon]

Like the keys to unlock difficult bosses in that game are so unreasonable

[small anvil]

they also said other things

[hard axle]

[small anvil]

like that yama would be the main way to get contracts

[hard axle]

that's cooked

[small anvil]

even tho at current rates demons are way faster

[tender harness]

They've said about 30 different things

[meager flame]

ngl though

[small anvil]

and that contracts would be cheaper than orbs

[meager flame]

everyone knows they're 99.99% cooked

and we're just coping and theorycrafting how they could not be

[small anvil]

and like.... how??? given it's like 10 hrs of yama for ONE cosmetic contract

[meager flame]

i stopped opening my dossiers

[small anvil]

it's 1/33 x 5 from dossier....

[meager flame]

praying for someone at jagex to like

do something to them

before i open another one

lmao

[hard axle]

im praying to awowogei

and goblin

[meager flame]

tbh i bet they just increase dossier drop chance

by like

a lot lol

[neon gate]

The only fix at this point is something like

1. Scrap everything, remake 5 transmog fights and 1 pet transmog fight, forced duo
2. convert all current non transmog/pet contracts into gp at wiki price guide value
3. transmog/pet contracts stay at current droprate but are a permanent fight unlock

[ember token]

im guessing the acquisition contracts are intentionally rare, and that they expected people to farm chasm demons for the radiant contracts

[neon gate]

That would fix everything

[meager flame]

tbh

[neon gate]

There are nearly 200k people already 99 slayer.

[meager flame]

if they expected us to farm demons so we could do an end game boss fight for cosmetics

i will get banned if i let them know what i think about that

lmao

[ember token]

no i think they expected noobs to farm the demons and sell the contracts for the end game players

[ember token]

how is that relevant?

[neon gate]

I'll join you

[neon gate]

this midgame progression bullshit is so overdone

[meager flame]

yeah but like 30% of their players are ironmen so nobody is selling them anything

[neon gate]

I am an endgame player in a game full of endgame player the average account is like 1900-2000 total

[meager flame]

they have to know how terrible that would be lol

[neon gate]

They griefed every aspect of this update to add a shitter moneymaker

Tradable contracts are the reason the DUO ENDGAME BOSS is actually a solo boss

[true talon]

Demon bots about to make bank

[meager flame]

i think the whole duo thing is partially just because of how jagex does feedback and updates

[ember token]

how does that relate to the 99 slayer comment though

[meager flame]

like

[neon gate]

That this concept of making shitter .01 ehb slayer good again is a dead end

[meager flame]

they didnt make a cool boss they thought of and figure it only really works the way they imagined in a duo

[ember token]

chasm of fire is not a task only area

[neon gate]

and that expecting maxed accounts to do chores for 50h of time padding to play the new content is moronic

[meager flame]

they basically decided a duo boss should exist after a poll then tried to like

[torpid delta]

my tinfoil hat theory is that the whole "duo" bit of yama was a complete kneejerk reaction to the relative success of the titans release like a month before the yama reveal

[meager flame]

just make it happen somehow

[true talon]

Yama is a cool boss, its just not rewarding an contracts are a failure before they even come out.

[meager flame]

thats not usually how creative people work

so i can see how it failed

[torpid delta]

and someone just said "hey... people like duo titans... what if... we make later game duo boss...?"

[true talon]

Also oathplate helm needs a buff

[ember token]

the chasm used to be a slayer area but it's not anymore, you dont need to be on task to farm contracts from demons

[neon gate]

If you think it';s not rewarding wait till we get 15% more oathplate and 25% more horns dumped into the Ge from contracts immediately

[true talon]

I done 250 kills and got my first drop at 244 yesterday

[meager flame]

usually you'd just have ideas and make the boss and sort of figure it out

as you worked

[hard axle]

[true talon]

and i only got like 80 BLP protection shards

[neon gate]

I got a horn

[hard axle]

just let us fuse it with a torva component

[neon gate]

useless item

[hard axle]

and be bis melee

[meager flame]

but they're in a weird situation where they're being told what ideas they should start trying to have

[neon gate]

I bought horn and elder on my main to alt for my iron solos

[true talon]

Same horn was my first item

[neon gate]

only use for the thing

[meager flame]

lmao idk i think i might not enjoy that so much if i worked on osrs

[neon gate]

Anything not ripped off of POE please

[torpid delta]

horn is great 'cause it's effectively an emote

[true talon]

Horn is so bad......... even landing a eldermaul is whatever, i can just emberlight spec it twice for same effect

[torpid delta]

bis for emoting while running agility laps

[winged mantle]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1370533121220411412

[true talon]

I knew horn would be bad, because they to worried about people utilizing it to crystal hally or d claw or scythe with it.

also irons cant even use it to land eldermaul on like corp lol

[hard axle]

only cuz ur a solo andy

its also 3.5 emberlight specs to 1 maul

[neon gate]

The worst part is that the Yama visuals music and the actual gameplay itself is great! It would be a great endgame solo boss. It's just everything else they royally fucked up

[narrow folio]

Ember is 15%

[neon gate]

They did everything possible to make a good design fail and succeeded

[narrow folio]

2.333

[hard axle]

[hard axle]

i'd disagree on the good solo endgame boss

it feels like regular nightmare in terms of how tanky it is

[true talon]

its technically 2, i do 3 in solos. in duo we just really both emberlighted it untill my duo got a horn, now we elder for free. but it wasnt game changing or anything lol.

[meager flame]

tbf if they didnt die on the duo hill it would scale and be really great solo and small teams

[true talon]

since taking 6 ticks to land a elder is worst than hitting 2 emberlights at 8 ticks with potential of 140 damage

Also it lowers his attack/str by 30% leading to less chip damage

[meager flame]

like

this boss is somewhat hilariously the exact kind of boss scaling fixes

[true talon]

Wonder if contract version yama has cap on reduction, if not im just emberlight spec his ass 8 times an afk while hes got no stats lol

[meager flame]

mechanically it works well for any number of players as long as its a reasonably small group

like 1 to 5

theres really no reason this was just tuned just for duos

sometimes having focused design like that is great when it makes sense but it just doesn't in this case

[true talon]

Personally i dont support the donofly, it improved the kill time but removed any engagement with the boss. before that we was dealing with flares and wave skipping while specing flares

[meager flame]

i do expect the contract solo fights to be good though

since it will at least eliminate the weird hp scaling because they just expected duo

[true talon]

While boss smacked us a 20 though melee protect lol

[neon gate]

you're supposed to run in on alt, use horn, elder it, and run out

and the def is more manageable

[meager flame]

i haven't looked but

do we have uim strats yet where they just drop tons of supplies on the floor

while their alt holds the instance

[true talon]

There is good mecchanics if you interact with the flares. you need to 3 way switch to kill flare into 3 way switch to emberlight to hit boss, by time the flare dies from the spec you have the reduced attack speed from the purging staff spec. allowing you to spam this over an over. weaving in specs with purging between ember hits

[meager flame]

then farm after picking up supplies

[true talon]

It gets hard once the waves come

But thats more fun than doing bando's

[neon gate]

day 1

[hard axle]

this comes off as weird if you do anything above basics, since a lot of advanced/intermediate methods like boak, 5t xarpus, or olm methods all focus on dodging mechanics

[hard axle]

yep, ur right, i thought it was 20 defense a reduction, but its 33

[true talon]

Yea i guess. im kinda on the fence of if your forcing the boss to just not do anything, then thats probably a bad thing.

but again its what we have to do

[hard axle]

anything beyond tank/spank please

literally i hate that so much about toa

i know more people bitch about warden p1 so much

than not

[obsidian venture]

endgame is questionable af

[true talon]

Yea tank and spank is bad, but some engagement with the boss besides running from tile to tile would be kinda cool.

[hard axle]

[obsidian venture]

2/3 of the fight is a sleeper

[true talon]

Yea and other phase is bando's

[obsidian venture]

Duo mechanics are meh

[true talon]

shoulda made mage the primary enrage tech, it has hidden mechanics in it like reduced ticks on attacks and shit.

you can get ticks from properly using purging staff spec on the jellies

[hard axle]

assuming no donofly, the 1 melee/1 mage method is actually just

[obsidian venture]

Wouldn't even compare it to bandos

[true talon]

It is what it is, its very hard to design a boss to challenge the current level of autism player base that has spreadsheets for ticks saved by banking from X tile.

[hard axle]

I've made my duo afk hit boss and dodge waves

while letting me tank + solo jellyfish before

because i needed to not fall asleep

from how boring non-donofly is

[obsidian venture]

Donofly actually makes it engaging lmao

Didn't know bandos had things other than minions

[true talon]

Thats how i did the boss in the start before donofly. we just tanked the boss and i spamed a 3 way mage switch to kill all the flares while dropping a 3 way melee switch to hit the boss. while dodging waves and making sure we didnt leave melee to have falling fireballs.

[hard axle]

it's so bad no donofly

like vorkath tier boring

[obsidian venture]

Not sure what point tass is making, but if you're saying donofly is less engaging than you're definitely a key representative in the playerbase you listed above

[hard axle]

mastering 12:0/8:1 is another one

[true talon]

Might be engaging, but makes the boss way to easy. its more fun to donofly untill the flres come and then swap to your mage setup and cont the fight. but at sametime they already made a melee method that bypasses doing that and it can kill all flares lol.

[obsidian venture]

Also comparing this to red x is kinda ie

[winged mantle]

Literally baba red x

[hard axle]

is olm 12:0 and 8:1 also red-x

[obsidian venture]

What about this

[winged mantle]

It's the same type deal

[obsidian venture]

as red x?

[winged mantle]

Red x to avoid damage and make the fight easier

[true talon]

Ehh red-x is not the same, your forcing the boss to never do anything. in this case the boss is doing stuff, your just brainlessly skipping over it.

[obsidian venture]

donofly isn't using red x

[winged mantle]

No i know but it's like that as a mechanic

They tried to remove it but put it back in

[true talon]

They are kinda the same. your utitlizing dancing in the bosses hitbox to force it to never actually do mechanics and stare at you like its moronic.

[winged mantle]

The devs even said they had a feeling something like donofly was possible

[obsidian venture]

There's an active form of red x that many folks do not do at baba, which is way more engaging

which is the 5:1

[true talon]

Unsure they wasnt even aware you can mage the judge from tile 3 lol

[winged mantle]

No idea but I like that tech tbh

[true talon]

They predicted this boss to die in 5+ mins in a duo

and 8+ in solo

[winged mantle]

There wasn't enough testing then

Even in a duo without skipping mechanics you can get 2:40 - 3 min kills

[true talon]

The people who play tested, prob didnt do anything to limit test the boss.

solo missions first video is him maging an running around the boss lol

[meager flame]

i mean im gonna be honest

they knew without a doubt a boak type of thing was coming

i told my duo it was going to happen on day 1 once we were doing the fight for like 30 mins lol

[true talon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-3cIMEb4MQ
lol

[meager flame]

its extremely obvious what people were going to try to do

[true talon]

Hes just kicking him to death on mobile

[meager flame]

and their estimations of time were like

[lament peak]

My duo is 350 kills in and still just maging him. It works and it's consistent 🤷‍♀️ 4/6 and almost enough shards to make a piece

[meager flame]

im not going to lie it was embarrassing you can get two guys with shadows and do 3-3:30 no problem

no tech

just kill boss

theres no way they didnt know

[true talon]

The confliction gauntlets will be nice for this boss

double accuracy roll on demonbane

Lmao love at the end of the video he gets zamorak mix and some pizza

F;s to this guy

[hard axle]

If you told people if they prefered a donofly method exist or not, I think most would say yes simply because it's an option

mage only, chill melee, donofly

it goes hard to have three tier of methods

[lament peak]

I already traded my oathplate shards to my partner just in case the complainers win

[formal sentinel]

I hope the complainers don't win. Shards are easily my favourite form of dupe & dry protection we've gotten

[hard axle]

just make them untradeable, but keep them

[austere mulch]

They’re fine and I think a great way to get that dry protection

Just shouldn’t be tradeable

[hard axle]

they're honestly good and minor impact as dupe proteciton

[austere mulch]

It legit hurts nobody and benefits pretty much everybody to have shards be untradeable and infenral shale tradeable

[formal sentinel]

Being tradeable means it's easier to account for them in the expected # of armour pieces entering the game, and less reliance on alchables/resource drops in the drop table

[austere mulch]

Well, if it released that way

[formal sentinel]

Doesn't really benefit anybody to have them be untradeable

[austere mulch]

But going from tradeable to untradeable has some logistical problems

[formal sentinel]

except irons who now have something on par with a main

[austere mulch]

Benefits the people doing the content for profit, benefits the profit of the mining activity, benefits the overall melee gear economy since less tops/bottoms being crafted, and doesn’t impact irons at all

If they’re made untradeable

[lament peak]

erm don't you understand? muh economy is impacted

[formal sentinel]

Those first ones all ring true for tradeable

[tacit pendant]

I think the boss being shards only coulda been a unique twist. Like someone HAS to smith the armor

[analog crow]

Reason it’s tradable is so you’re not “locked” into the content longer than you want

[austere mulch]

Tradeable means you can have 50 teams do 10 kc, sell the shards, and 1 top/bottom is added to the market. This reduces profitability & crashes other melee gear like Torva and bandos

If they were untradeable, that couldn’t happen

[formal sentinel]

And so the drop table has less reliance on alchables + resource drops

[hard axle]

if u wanna be obnoxious about it, "erm enjoy dupes as an iron"

[austere mulch]

They can be untradeable and still exchangeable for other resources or coins (less ideal)

Additionally, the armor pieces should require varying numbers of shards to create

[formal sentinel]

Tradeable means that Jagex can figure out the exact quantity they want to enter the game, and set drop rates accordingly.
Untradeable makes it more difficult to account for crafted gear, so crafted gear ends up being extra that crashes the market instead of being part of the expected gear generation

[analog crow]

The shards thing is actually a really cool kind of dupe protection
Hope to see more like that going forward

[austere mulch]

Since they’re not all valued equally

[hard axle]

I hope they do review it and see how many are coming from shards

[austere mulch]

Shards making up 30-40% of the total oath legs and chests in game when less than 1% of the people who have kc are on rate to have made one their own

That is bad for the economy

[formal sentinel]

"Untradeable generates extra gear" makes sense until you think about it further and realize it's part of the overall tradeable sources for gear, whereas untradeable isn't

[hard axle]

same reason why sra is untradeable and that's good for people actually grinding it out full amount

[austere mulch]

^

If SRA pieces were tradeable, it’d be far less valuable

[formal sentinel]

It's bad for the economy if there was never any expectation for them to be created from shards in the first place, and it was never worked into the overall drop rate

Tell me, what would generate more pieces, an average of 3 drops per 600 kills, or an average of 2 drops per 600 kills + enough shards to create 1 armour piece per 600 kills?

[true talon]

Items breakable into untradeable shards woulda been pretty good for the eco. however it would have to mean helm/legs/plate cost more shards to craft.

[hard axle]

i agree

[austere mulch]

The thing is, this can both be true and also not implemented healthily

[true talon]

like breaking down a helm into 100 shards but it cost 300 to make. prob woulda been better design choice.

[hard axle]

players are selfish and as long as it's not negatively impacting me excessively, i dont really care

[austere mulch]

Rates for the armor pieces alone, not even including shards, is already very generous

It’s the shards that are the icing on the cake

And the easiest solution is untradeable shards

[hard axle]

i care about balance more than anything cuz last thing i want is for this game to preemptively die

[austere mulch]

But we’re well past that point so it’s hard to backtrack

Easiest solution in current state*

For context

[lament peak]

me when bank value number goes down a little bit

[true talon]

On my iron when yama released my bank dropped 1b and i was like woah this must be what its like to be a normie XD

from 13.3b to 12.3b

overnight

[formal sentinel]

Overall drop rate is the factor that actually matters. If it's too high, it should be lowered. But the existence & tradeability of shards isn't "the cause". It's "a part"
And in fact, making shards untradeable makes it harder to balance the number of armour pieces entering the game

[true talon]

literally mega rare worth of gp gone

[austere mulch]

Personally idc about gp value, ive got every pvm related item in game that can even be used for any sort of purpose and plenty gp beyond that

[formal sentinel]

untradeable shards makes botting more viable at Yama, as well

[austere mulch]

But my personal care for it has no contribution to what’s objectively better for the longevity of the content

[hard axle]

just like how torva bars/ancestral cloth wouldn't hurt prices, but it would also help irons by reducing their grind by half

[hard axle]

the opposite actually

very few SRAs were forged by bots since they typically dont do all 4 bots

[austere mulch]

Untradeable shards = more likely to get caught botting by the time you have an impact to the economy

Because you’d need ~900 kills

[formal sentinel]

No, untradeable shards means that for gp/hour, those that run a single boss long enough to consistently create the pieces benefit the most

[austere mulch]

(Which bots surely will go well beyond that based on history of other bosses lol)

[formal sentinel]

That's what bots do

[hard axle]

SRA shows otherwise tbh

[formal sentinel]

SRA needs 4 different bosses

Yama is one

[austere mulch]

But you’re more likely to be caught by 900kc than by 20 kc for example

Or at least you’d hope whatever systems they have in place would have that statement be true

[formal sentinel]

You'd hope, but that would have to work, first

[austere mulch]

If I have 80 bots running Yama and they do 10kc each, I added an oath chest to the market.

Vs

I need each (or any one) bot to do 800-900kc

[hard axle]

dont want to break the rules by discussing this in detail, but hours to cash in is what's important imo

[formal sentinel]

You'd kind of be expecting that kind of KC out of a bot to pay off the financial or opportunity cost of buying/creating the account

But yeah, we should drop this cause it verges on rule breaking

U rite there for sure, and I don't want a ban

[austere mulch]

I think ideally, they would’ve better accommodated rates on launch to have tradeable shards work

Just think they missed the mark there

[formal sentinel]

100%

[hard axle]

at the very least, it's 30% rarer now

but definitely still wish it was untradeable shards

[formal sentinel]

The overall drop rate was definitely too high on launch

[hard axle]

so here's another idea that i considered

make it 300 shards to make a piece

but untradeable shards

everyone's happy

[rain fulcrum]

The shards r a very big factor

If the shards were untradable then most shards would not become oathplate armor

Instead of 100% of them do

[hard axle]

oathplate helm being mostly useless

shifts all shards to legs/body imo

aside for irons ofc

irons actually benefit from helm

[formal sentinel]

Pieces would also have to be untradeable

[rain fulcrum]

Especially because they made the bizarre choice that all armor pieces cost the same

[hard axle]

not always

just copies the SRA system

[formal sentinel]

Shards are a factor same as raw drops

[rain fulcrum]

Can't wait to get tbow2 shards from raids4

[formal sentinel]

What bring more armour pieces into the game, an average of 3 raw armour piece drops per 600kc, or an average of 2 plus enough shards to make 1 piece per 600kc?

[small anvil]

Sra would tank by half or more if pieces got made tradeable

[formal sentinel]

Making all pieces cost the same is bizarre tho

[true talon]

Would love this, Irons got double nerfed with the update

[formal sentinel]

agreed

[small anvil]

It's a good thing actually

That they cost the same

It preserves the cost of helm

A bit

[rain fulcrum]

How?

[formal sentinel]

That does help it with being dupe protection

I think

[rain fulcrum]

Nobody is turning shards into the helm ever

[small anvil]

All shards do into body legs

[rain fulcrum]

Oh yeah I guess that makes sense

[formal sentinel]

Yeah, so helm is more rare

[rain fulcrum]

You know what would help the helm price

[small anvil]

If it was 3-2-1

[rain fulcrum]

Fix the fucking set so we use the helm

[small anvil]

Helm is locked to 1/3 chest

Also t legs are higher than chest

[rain fulcrum]

It's amazing that they full well knew this would happen and they released it anyway

[small anvil]

Things are in an ok place right now honestly

[formal sentinel]

They should all have the same slash bonus, at the very least

[rain fulcrum]

Big L to ppl who get helm drops from oath contract 🙂

[small anvil]

The content is 10m/hr someone said

[rain fulcrum]

And lose money overall

[formal sentinel]

So it's not "use these exact pieces in your mix and match"

[formal sentinel]

IIRC they said you get to choose

[hard axle]

that's what i mean by there are middle grounds that make everyone happy

[formal sentinel]

I saw someone mention it, but haven't confirmed

[red briar]

contracts gonna ruin it they should scrap it like they did with the rest of the rewards the boss is too easy

[small anvil]

Contacts are gonna flood the market with more armor

[red briar]

^

[small anvil]

It's like 10% extra

[rain fulcrum]

Unless people die trying to do it

[small anvil]

But a weeks worth happening quickly once the fight gets figured out

[formal sentinel]

With any luck it's a big difficulty spike, and half of them result in deaths

[small anvil]

Is gonna be huge money maker

For a bit

[red briar]

they already increased the drop rate on the armor