leagues-general

[ashen ocean]

Do we have any idea how combo runes work? Does that count as using both?

[cursive edge]

is ring of shadows locked behind desert?

[twin ermine]

Hard locking in on dihns bulwark thorns blind bag build, probably zeah tir mory, might swap the order of tir and zeah

https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-135-136-139-140-141-145-146-150-151-152-153-154-155-156-157-161-165-43-58-6-61-62-63-64-71-73-74-8-80-84-86-88-9-92-93-94-95-98-99

[pulsar tusk]

what "build" you going withy that?

[potent quail]

be more detialed pls what you want to know and yes we ahve clarification combo runes

[bleak depot]

Yeah @cursive edge

[potent quail]

jsut quadrant fire or earth probably?

[glacial geyser]

quadrant isn't a powered staff

[bleak depot]

I think our best choice is probably gonna be be suffering lol

[twin ermine]

This does look busted, I’d do this if I didn’t want to meme with a 2h shield build

[potent quail]

man good thing there is the lithic scepotre in Morytania

[tough finch]

Just get to 100% regen and use a single recoil infinitely. Does that work? It's charges.

[bleak depot]

Quad staff still has crazy magic damage

It is indeed charges.

[potent quail]

and later on stack magic% damage nodes and go for shadow

[dull tusk]

when you take both melee healing nodes and every melee hit you do - which averages to 1 per tick, has a 20% chance to heal you. Stacked up with a 5% hit rate for the spell, you heal 4 hp, while in theory the fire spell consumes 6. So while you do bleed HP, its rather slow.

[bleak depot]

But at KTM we only have access to suffering and like… granite ring

Lololol

[ashen ocean]

For example, if I use ice barrage with steam runes. Does that trigger regenerating water runes and fire runes?

[glacial geyser]

no, surely not

[dull tusk]

basically on average every 6 seconds you lose 1 hp while attacking. normal food will cover that.

[tough finch]

So combined with the 0s heal you, really might still work out neutral

[potent quail]

no

[glacial geyser]

its the runes the spell would require

not the runes you consume

[ashen ocean]

sad day*

[bleak depot]

Yeah that would be busted if you regen combo runes lol

[tough finch]

I'm starting to wish we could exchange mega rare vouchers for respecs

[dull tusk]

if you want infinite sustainability a good idea is to bring a healing spec weapon, with spec energy being extremely easy for you to come by

really the biggest fuel here is just that this fairly high dps main thing is one of the fastest ways in the entire league to fuel specs - thatll be some fun im sure

[bleak depot]

Yeah I’m gonna be swapping myself between shadow, mory echo weapon and mandarin echo weapon

Kandarin rather.

Warped sceptre is basically mandarin trident

Temu trident

[tough finch]

If you d claws main hand you can take the 2h has double range and 2 tiles away regens spec xd

[molten gust]

He isn’t really wanting it for a style. More for having the raid to do with his iron friend since they don’t wanna do tob or cox.

[dull tusk]

the actual fastest way to regen spec is a 1 tick powered staff but an actual magic attack spec gets less out of specs in total

[tough finch]

But I probably wouldn't do that lol.

[bleak depot]

I mean if you enjoy toa sure. But that’s literally all there is to do in the desert for bossing.

Kq is just …. You know.

[glacial geyser]

you could do normal kq 😄

[bleak depot]

No hate just saying lol

Yeah brew chug simulator. It’s basically nex v1.0

Idk i regretted the shit out of the league i took all 3 raid regions i wish i hadn’t taken desert lol.

[glacial geyser]

last echoes I was going for my nox before tob

went like 300kc no hally piece

[bleak depot]

I did tob in absolute rags lmao

I love tob

[glacial geyser]

quit the league

[dull tusk]

a nice bit im noticing in this dagger setup is that it actually leaves quite a few spare points - which might sound bad, but is in some ways good, allowing you to guilt-free spec into high defense and pray pen. nice stuff

[tawny frost]

@wanton pine is this confirmed by jagex or are u just throwing random talk out there
dvils offhand

[bleak depot]

Should have just sent it. tob is super easy in leagues

[wary egret]

Are barrage spells better dps than surge?

[bleak depot]

Even hmt you could ignore most mechanics last leaves

[glacial geyser]

at that point I had never entered tob before and i was super tilted

[tough finch]

Bro use the reply button wtf

[bleak depot]

Probably not @wary egret

[tawny frost]

why are you mad in someone elses name?

[bleak depot]

I’m taking them anyway. lol.

[wary egret]

So grimore a waste for kandarin mage build?

[glacial geyser]

kinda

[bleak depot]

I wouldn’t say that. I want thralls and spells.

[winged trench]

Is that trident from the smoke devil echo count as a stave?

[bleak depot]

And augury

[glacial geyser]

it is not a powered staff

[pulsar tusk]

https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-100-101-102-103-106-107-108-127-128-133-134-136-164-166-167-44-45-46-47-53-54-55-56-57-58-59-60-62-66-67-68-69-70-87-92-93-94-96-99

Kandarin -> Tirawn -> either Kourend/Mory/Desert looks like a fun build

[bleak depot]

It’s a staff not powered

[wary egret]

I’m going minion and zeah I think

[winged trench]

How fast can you get that thing to shoot then?

[fallen fossil]

When do we get info on rewards cost?

[bleak depot]

Then it may not be for you lol it depends on what you want to do with ir.

[winged trench]

I was thinking the same

[glacial geyser]

why are you taking the earth/air spell buffs for powered staff build?

[pulsar tusk]

i am only taking several points to get to full prayer penetration

[wary egret]

So with the elemental weakness from thermy staff - does that mean things like olm head can be maged now?

[bleak depot]

Yeah it seems most people taking either air/earth for tank/max hits vs water/fire for sustain/still big hits

[pulsar tusk]

i picked air/water for sustain with powered staff

[dull tusk]

https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-100-117-118-119-12-134-135-136-142-143-144-146-157-161-162-163-57-58-60-61-62-63-64-69-72-74-79-8-80-82-85-86-92-93-94-96-97-99 cerberus dagger build. 39 points cause i wouldnt be able to kill awakened whisperer

[pulsar tusk]

also doubled hp bar

[bleak depot]

@spare osprey i was initially going to do that. Good thing we get 3 respecs

[glacial geyser]

https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-100-101-102-106-107-133-134-135-136-164-166-167-44-47-53-54-55-56-57-58-59-60-62-66-67-68-69-70-87-92-93-94-96-97-99

think I saved u 4 pts?

[bleak depot]

Come to think of it if you spec into air water and fire you could smoke barrage ….

smoke barrage is fire and air yeah?

Tha would probably go hard af

[glacial geyser]

it doesn't benefit from quadrant tho

[cursive edge]

I think sang + water regen sustain should be enough tbh

[glacial geyser]

is the only downside

[bleak depot]

It benefits from quadrant damage percent. Just doesn’t get the “second hit”

[glacial geyser]

yh

but thats 40% of its power

[dull tusk]

by the way its nice to consider your regions before you assume pray pen is nessecary - only some regions have any requirement to penetrate prayers at all. Morytania suprisingly has hardly any praying going on at all, even in tob

[bleak depot]

I think I’m okay with that

[smoky raft]

starting to put together my usual zero hour plan for what to do immediately as soon as leagues starts

initial testing shows I can get this full set in about 10 minutes

[bleak depot]

Well we also will have wrath runes at 95 rc with that soul syphon or whatever it’s called so i could always try that too

[dull tusk]

my plan is to walk in and figure out what im doing on the spot on day 1, like Yama intended

[bleak depot]

Same

[smoky raft]

oh! I should be able to get anti dragon shield too

[dull tusk]

to me half the fun of the new region is figuring it out on the spot rather than doing the same old tired methods from 10 limited time events ago

[tacit oyster]

King's barrage does full damage to corp, updated the post with it

[smoky raft]

to me half the fun is optimization

[dull tusk]

we're doing the same things just at different times tbh

[tacit oyster]

still no confirmation if king's barrage is 1 max hit split into 2 or 2 separate max hits

[glacial geyser]

what do you mean?

[dull tusk]

ill optimize all i can, ill just do it on the spot

[wary egret]

Will corp be mageable with the thermy staff?

[dull tusk]

im more of a think-on-my-feet than a planning type

[tough finch]

Part of me imagines the 2nd bolt from kings barrage won't be a crossbow max hit since theyre making it all elemental and shit

[tacit oyster]

if it rolls max hit once and splits it 50/50 to 2 bolts its worse than zcb, if it does double max hit its very broken

they confirmed both bolts benefit with the max hit crossbow pact

[dull tusk]

as long as you spec into some nice accuracy corp should be manageable by just about anything

[smoky raft]

corp takes full damage from mage; the main issue is accuracy, since corp has 350 mage level and 150 mage def

[dull tusk]

thermy offhand is +30% weakness which means you have +30% accuracy too

[bleak depot]

https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-100-101-11-112-113-114-117-118-119-12-122-123-124-133-135-44-45-46-47-53-54-55-56-58-59-60-62-67-68-69-8-87-92-93-94-96-97-99

here’s where I’m currently working on

[dull tusk]

so youll have a relatively easy time hitting when you stack base accuracy from the pacts on top

[bleak depot]

Ice/blood mage

[wary egret]

Even with the weakness passive?

[glacial geyser]

whats with the dip into staves?

[smoky raft]

I'm just pointing out why mage isn't used in the base game

you'll 100% be able to mage corp

[bleak depot]

@glacial geyser shadow as well.

[ashen ocean]

If you have the devil's element. Does it make all air spells double their max chance regardless?

[tacit oyster]

it does seem like this will be mage league if king's barrage is worse dps than zcb

[bleak depot]

So I’m not limited to one play style

[dull tusk]

with corp's inherent 10% weakness making a total of 40% and relatively easy access to 60%+ accuracy on the tree, youll hit WAY more than in the base game. If you're really really worried then use earth spell spec early on to reduce corp's defence and magic levels at once.

[glacial geyser]

might be worth dropping some utility and going for the %dmg nodes if you have shadow

[bleak depot]

I’m wondering if the higher regeneration has a second chance to proc if above 100%

[glacial geyser]

it does

120% is guranteed refund +20% change to regen

[bleak depot]

I’m probably barely going to use shadow but i still will wanna try it lol

[slate herald]

You can already eye of ayak corp in main game. It's a non-issue

[bleak depot]

I’m prettt sold on Crystal, and kandarin echo items with ancients as well as that ggs staff to nuke nylos haha

Maybe I’ll fuck around with even dropping a few nodes to spec into air as well because i feel like smoke barrage is gonna be busted

[tacit oyster]

as like 5th best option but yeah its possible

[dull tusk]

they dont let me input the new items to the wiki calc yet but a setup which uses no other region dependant items locks in at 40% accuracy vs corp, using twinflame and book of darkness as slot filling stand-in items

once you add in the elemental weakness and raw power of the new items that number will go up

by a good margin

[toxic vortex]

Yeah that staff is going to be busted

I think I might be sold KTM

[slate herald]

If only they let you use ancients

and get the 40% damage

[toxic vortex]

the thermy staff?

[slate herald]

it explicitly says normal spellbook for the first line

[bleak depot]

You can still use ancients, you just won’t get the second hit from what i was told. It’s not like it won’t be powerful af

[dull tusk]

its not super accurate but is it accurate enough to handle corp? sure. add in the 5% chance to roll max accuracy per tile distance if its still unsatisfactory - you can camp as high as 8 tiles with the termy staff, for a 45% chance

[toxic vortex]

it also says it can auto cast from all spellbooks

you just only get the double hit from surge spells

well, normal/elemental spells

[dull tusk]

yeah its just a relatively strong staff slot filler on other spellbooks, still works

[slate herald]

so you're only as strong as a person autocasting ancients with virtus, as surge spells are weaker than ancient spells

[bleak depot]

Yeah it still has mega strength bonus

[bleak depot]

?????

[dull tusk]

you are using the offhand from the region as well so you're +30% weakness stronger

[bleak depot]

Surge spells use a ton of runes. If you regen multiple runes surge is gonna be cracked

[tough finch]

builder spender water/fire mage stonks did indeed go up

[bleak depot]

Can anyone confirm you can regen multiple runes ?

[dull tusk]

yeah rune use is a completely ignored metric.

[undone snow]

Does a Tzhaar slay task work on the special challenges?

[slate herald]

surge max hit is 24. ice barrage max hit is 30.

[dull tusk]

its explicit that you can, every effect listed is per run regen

which implies you can regen multiple

or it would be pointless

[tough finch]

yeah they said in a discord faq thing above 100% regen can regen more than you used

[cyan oxide]

is there anywhere people are posting their full builds?

[slate herald]

the 40% you gain is not because it's overpowered, but instead to level the playing field 😂

[dull tusk]

but yeah sure spells are COMPLETELY ridiculous rune costs, which is good here. Think 10 water runes and 7 air runes at once

[bleak depot]

But the multiple regens of runes. Compare the rune cost for surge spells to ancients.

[slate herald]

if you're using water surge realistically the only thing you'll get from this is prayer and a small bit of extra healing

[dull tusk]

every single surge spell will always regen you 1 prayer point as they always use 7 air runes

[bleak depot]

I’m not tryna be a hater i think you’re underestimating the value of the nodes for mage

[undone snow]

But does tzhaar slay task work on the special challenges?

[tough finch]

you're also doing like 35-40% more damage when you max out the overheal nodes though. Fire is still sweet, I think they are best used alternating

[dull tusk]

1 prayer point per attack is actually rather strong for a universal benefit on a 2 tick attack

[bleak depot]

Not from what i remember

[slate herald]

Ancients still do this.

[bleak depot]

I was also thinking that about alternating

[slate herald]

just not the prayer part

[bleak depot]

Ancients uses less runes per cast — less node proc

[tough finch]

ancients can't double up spells with the kandarin staff.

[dull tusk]

really fire spells are the star of the show for surge rune cost perks - you increase the damage of all your attacks by 10.

[tough finch]

so no, I don't think ancients is always better

[slate herald]

Again, water surge is 24 base damage and ancients is 30. Ancients also benefit disproportionately from virtus.

[tough finch]

Even the arceuus grasp spell at level 79 with the single fire rune regen node is stronger than base ice barrage

[bleak depot]

I think they’re both equally strong in many ways but i wouldn’t count surge out at all

[slate herald]

They're about equal with the staff

except ancients obviously hit multiple targets

[dull tusk]

24 * 1.4 is 33 so higher than 30 by 10%. But you're failing to consider that the 40% multiplier isnt to just the base, its on top of EVERY multiplier you have

[bleak depot]

Again you need to factor in rune regen. If surge uses 6 more runes that’s 6 more damage on fire — that makes up the difference

[slate herald]

You mean every other multiplier than ancients also get?

[dull tusk]

every additional damage, every multiplier, everything is multiplied by that 40% as it uses derivative damage from the first hit

[dull tusk]

yeah, but theyre all 40% stronger

so basically every bonus you get is 40% more than it otherwise would be so long as you use surge spells

[bleak depot]

Will the 30percent extra weakness still apply when using ancients to autocast from echo staff ?

[slate herald]

Yes

If you have the ancient node on pact tree that makes them water spells

[bleak depot]

Yeah

Mage is gonna absolutely fuck this league

[wary egret]

What’s bis mage boots for zeah kand wildy? Treads?

[dull tusk]

the twinflame works like this too and for much the same reason its stronger than staves with faster APS and higher inherent damage bonus

[bleak depot]

Prob avernic treads reg

[shadow badger]

Treads are BiS everywhere, no?

[dull tusk]

cause a 2nd hit is just multiplicative with absolutely everything in the entire game

its just strong

[junior phoenix]

Yeah no ancients are completely in the bin guys I don't know why this is even a debate

[slate herald]

treads bis or echo boots if you're thorns

[shadow badger]

Unless you're going for defence

[bleak depot]

I don’t think so, but I’d like to hear your reasoning

[dull tusk]

ancients are still killer for non kandarin mages, especially an earth spell tank who benefits from inherent shadow spell effects

[slate herald]

also, harmonized nightmare staff is STILL better than the echo staff if the enemy has no weakness or is weak to the spell type you're using

as it's a 1.5x multiplier rather than 1.4x

nvm, fire still better

[junior phoenix]

The 15.5 flat damage on fire surge plus the 12 flat damage which is multiplied by the 40% bonus damage gives it an average hit of 63 vs ice barrage averaging a 35

Sorry, ice barrage on 35

[wary egret]

How about ring? I guess brimstone?

[junior phoenix]

The flat damage is multiplied by 40%, which is absolutely massive

And yes that was taking into account the extra 9% magic damage from virtus, and isn't even considering that crystal makes the gap wider

[flint ocean]

not to interrupt the conversation but this is my first leagues and was wonderginf what yall are doing for relics or any tips??

[dull tusk]

its not a 1.5x its a 1.33x by pure attack speed bonus, though with arguably higher utility, but also higher risks as you would for example burn yourself more with fire for the same output. im not sure where the 1.5x comes from. The trouble though is you need wrath runes for surge.

[slate herald]

well crystal does nothing for you

soooo

note how it says powered magic weapons

and is equal to virtus in magic %

[junior phoenix]

Sorry, that's true, you're right nvm

So just a flat 63 vs 35

[slate herald]

if your objective is just damage then all rivers will lead back to shadow

[junior phoenix]

Lmao shadow is trolling

[slate herald]

water mage at least has its own fun gimmick

[junior phoenix]

Fire spells have like 45dps, shadow is 35

[wary egret]

Man there a no good mage rings outside of fremmy huh

[dull tusk]

i think fire spells have higher dps than shadow if you can solve health cost concerns

[tough finch]

whatever you think is fun tbh. it can be hard to grind out points without the clue relic, so a lot of people will say pick conniving clues or pick reloaded into conniving clues. but pick whatever keeps you playing longer, you might not necessarily totally complete the leagues. Before making a build with the pacts, I would go check the task list on the wiki for unlocking skill tree nodes because it's kind of hard to get a lot of points.

[junior phoenix]

And that's before elemental weaknesses

[dull tusk]

and before multi targetting

[junior phoenix]

And the health cost is easily solved by casting a water surge every 5 hits

[dull tusk]

yeah it should be easy though does the 1 water hit per 5 get countedin ur dps numbers

[junior phoenix]

Reduces dps by like 3 since water surge is still good dps

No it doesn't that does reduce it but it's still way better than shadow

And doesn't require you to max magic damage

[flint ocean]

im wanting to try out pvm finaly im not great at it ive done a few bosses here and there but never really raided or anything thought about maybe picking wildy and zeah but idk about a 3rd one

[slate herald]

Has anyone ran the numbers on the cerb dagger? Looks underwhelming

[dull tusk]

yeah it should be bettr than shadow but i like accurate numbers

[junior phoenix]

I have

Cerb dagger caps out around 31dps including the spec

[dull tusk]

its high attack speed hard carried pretty much

[grave pollen]

Are clue scrolls limited to unlocked regions still?

[slate herald]

eh, sounds fine I guess

[toxic vortex]

yes

[dull tusk]

if you use a different spec you can pull higher dps than speccing with the item

[junior phoenix]

However, you can do cerb dagger+thorns making it compete at more like 40dps

[dull tusk]

and utility too

[junior phoenix]

And yeah with claws more like 42dps

[toxic vortex]

I'd still fully expect there to be certain steps that are bugged

there are always a few

[dull tusk]

cerb dagger + thorns + diff spec weapon should dominate

[grave pollen]

I am curious how that works for beginners clues because there aren’t any clues in valmore or the jungle

[junior phoenix]

Cerb dagger+echo boots+dfs+full thorns+claws is like 50 damage recoil + 35dps

Potentially as much as 50dps if you have something decently fast attacking you

[toxic vortex]

not sure, but there are no tasks for beginner clues this time

[grave pollen]

Ah well maybe that explains it lol

[slate herald]

Wouldn't you also decimate your own health bar?

[flint ocean]

anybody already got their leagues all planed out for regions and whatnot>?

[slate herald]

I assume blood fury would not work on the spell portion either

[junior phoenix]

Basically Dogger+Thorns=50dps
Fire surge+kandarin=50dps
Crossbow+full regen and echos=50dps

[dull tusk]

you can do the classic dragon claws spec swap as they count as both a light and 2h weapon making for a very strong spec option to capitalize on the exception spec regen rate of the dagger

[junior phoenix]

Thorns doesn't require you to take damage, torva+dfs and you're not gonna get hit much

[wary egret]

Why couldn’t they release this today. Now I gotta sit around all weekend wishing it was Wednesday

[junior phoenix]

+you get 2hp regen every time they hit a 0

[dull tusk]

spec is free so go grab a healing spec weapon, and you're all good for what damage you do take

[junior phoenix]

But yeah xgs/sgs will completely negate that

[slate herald]

but then you're standing there for the next like 5 ticks doing nothing

[junior phoenix]

Okay?

[slate herald]

and the damage you'll take is not so insignificant that sgs will even heal you fully

[junior phoenix]

So you take a blood fury or some food

[dull tusk]

i mean sure but its just eating food but sustainable

[tough finch]

sure but there's not a lot of healing specs in the game

[dull tusk]

the damage you take is not as significant as you seem to imagine

[junior phoenix]

Fyi, the spell portion of the cerb dagger is so utterly shit I've just discounted it entirely

[flint ocean]

yall goin melee/range this leagues or range/mage i havent heard anyone goin mellee/mage yet

[wary egret]

“The King's barrage deals full damage to the Corporeal Beast” wildy is awesome this leagues

[junior phoenix]

I'm going melee/mage

[slate herald]

I see

[dull tusk]

its something like 1 per 6 seconds average from the fire spell effect damage boosting effect when using both melee healing nodes

[junior phoenix]

KAZ Dogger+Elemental spells

[dull tusk]

you arnet exactly taking unimaginable critical damage

[flint ocean]

really thatll be interesting cause im taking wildy so good to know

[junior phoenix]

I still don't know how the king's barrage actually works

Do you roll 2 full hits or is it split in two?

[wary egret]

I’m stoked to limit test. I’m going mage build though so won’t really have good range gear

[dull tusk]

im waiting to see if the barrage is entirely derivative damage or if it works on weaknesses

[flint ocean]

its a crossbow right so id imagine range and melee would be peak there

[small flower]

the passive proc on the cerb dagger is only 5%, so the thorns healing alone should cover that, unless you're constantly spamming the spec

[wary egret]

“The crossbow always shoots 2 bolts at once. The first bolt counts as a crossbow attack, while the other counts as an ice attack which will always freeze the current target in place for 24 ticks (14.4 seconds). The freeze effect can be toggled on and off with the weapon.”

[junior phoenix]

Yes, but I don't know what the actual damage is

[flint ocean]

thats why im chosing zeah as well and thinkingmaybe asgarnia for armadyl maybe idk yet

[dull tusk]

yeah they just didnt explain how the multi hit works in a game with several competeing multihit mechs

so we can only guess

[junior phoenix]

Does that mean it does the damage of an ice barrage? I don't think so, I saw him max a 29 on the video. It doesn't make sense

[wary egret]

I’m dropping Asg for kandarin

Kandarin just seems like easy points and synergizes well with mage

Thermy staff is broken

[flint ocean]

really kandarin i was looking nothing really there ahhh gotcha

[wary egret]

Yeah for a pure range build I can’t see kandarin being the play

[junior phoenix]

Same with the tecpatl, does it do 2 full max hits, or max hits split in two? If it's 2 full max hits, then it's genuinely fully competitive with blindbag (which is otherwise shite). If not, then it's shit

[flint ocean]

i want to dip my toes in more pvm for once normally a skiller so this will be good for me to test out bosses

[wary egret]

Full range id probably go zeah desert asg

[dull tusk]

asgarnia is a noob trap for everyone planning 40 point builds as whisperer might as well be the great wall of china placed directly in your path

awakened that is

[junior phoenix]

Pure range build wilderness desert whatever you like

[flint ocean]

desert could be good with that blowpipe maybe from queen

[tough finch]

i wish the goddamn sub 1kg weapon subspec stuff had better support. I don't think the dogger is going to cut it for me.

[junior phoenix]

Jokes on you, I'm doing a full mage asgarnia build I'll melt whisperer

[dull tusk]

you cant. you couldnt in gridmaster, you cant here

[small flower]

could always do dclaws as both the main weaopn and spec

it's light

[junior phoenix]

(And also I know how to do whisperer properly)

(And yes I'm talking about awakened whisperer I did it like 6 times in gridmaster)

[dull tusk]

whisperer force phase changes to invuln at hp thresholds and has an anti-sustain mechanic, unless you can do the awakened fight special attacks consistently you wont win

[flint ocean]

gonna do melee/range so zeah asgarnia and wildy not necessarily in that order but yeah

[dull tusk]

but eyah if you do, obviously youll be fine

which is why its a noob trap and not a pro trap

[tough finch]

yeah and you regen 4% spec per attack minimum with the 2 tile away node if you take 2hs have double range xd

[junior phoenix]

Lotta noob traps this league

[small flower]

you do lose the blindbags, but you still get the speed bonus and the ranged echoes

[dull tusk]

streamers will take asgarnia cause they know they can handle awakeneds, noobs will take it cause streamers took it and be unable to get all 40 points

[glacial geyser]

your build probably shouldn't need 40 pts

[tacit oyster]

no confirmation, answering was avoided even on leagues discord. based on video could be 1 max hit split 50/50 between bolts but impossible to tell for sure without jmod info

[flint ocean]

thats fair i prbly wont get all the points but its good practice still

[dull tusk]

even compared to gridmaster no last stand is a crazy nerf to awakened whisperer

[toxic vortex]

Faux is planning KTM

[small flower]

it should be 6% per swing, the ranged spec regen specifies on attack, but the master node says when a melee weapon hits, so the extra 40% splat should count again?

[dull tusk]

faux is smart im talking about the other streamers

[junior phoenix]

Zeah is a noob trap in general, blindbag and bluetooth hally are shit, fremm is as well, thrown wepons unless the wiki is right and I'm wrong (it's overestimating the effect of echos)

[flint ocean]

what do you recommend then instead of asgarnia for noobs then if you dont mind me asking?

[dull tusk]

blindbag dharoks sounds extremely funny though u gotta admit

[toxic vortex]

https://tenor.com/rs6M6IrUNpM.gif

[junior phoenix]

Mega rares also a noob trap, they're all shit except tbow which is just normal bad

[small flower]

blindbag/echospam looks like a fun if unreliable option

[coral silo]

Since Shadowflame Quadrant counts as inifinite elemental runes, does that mean that i cant regenerate them since no elemental runes are being consumed?

[velvet flume]

why is blindbag and bluetooth hally shit?

[junior phoenix]

Absolutely, and yet shit

[dull tusk]

for the record im not counting noob trap as 'less than perfect build' but as 'you will encounter extreme progression blockers that streamers are prepared for but you arent'

[tough finch]

the echo bow is one of the few ways in the game to regen resources. it's not bad. and there is tons of content and gear.

[glacial geyser]

regeneration is based on the spell cast not the runes used

[dull tusk]

depends on ur setup. if asgarnia is good enough to compensate 1 point and you're fine with that, by all means

[junior phoenix]

Because it is? Nox hally does like 15-20dps, blindbag only procs 25% of the time so adds vanishingly small dps. No huge effects or attack speedups is just not good enough

[dull tusk]

as long as you know what you are picking its fine, its a trap cause it gets people who dont know what theyre picking

[flint cloud]

@dull tusk what are the main prgression blockers from going zeah?

[flint ocean]

as of now im thinking of going wildy first then asgarnia then zeah but again i wanna do pvm which i dont normally do and i think that combo will give me a variety of bosses

[dull tusk]

well i didnt say zeah was a trap, but radiant oathplate is still pretty hard to get

[junior phoenix]

No the echo bow is great, I'm talking about radiant oathplate

[velvet flume]

where are you getting these dpc calcs from?

[glacial geyser]

is nally really that low? I was doing some calcs with rcb and the crossbow tree and it was like 18dps

[tacit oyster]

hardest raid to get mega rare vouchers and 1 skill point is behind radiant oathplate

[junior phoenix]

The wiki? Just do it

[junior phoenix]

Rcb and the full crossbow tree is like 30+dps

[dull tusk]

yeah sounds chill as long as you can pull a reasonably strong build in those regions and are fine having a few goals you likely wont complete (But maybe you will! All it takes is mechanical execution)

[glacial geyser]

yh I was just doing like my first 10 ish pts to see what it would be like

[small flower]

by itself yea, the calc doesn't really figure in the blindbags or echoes into the dps i don't think, it just throws them on as maxhit potential which makes it look weird

[junior phoenix]

16 points will get you a 30dps rcb

[cursive edge]

Oh shit I think Wind Surge can do 46 DPS vs anything

[flint ocean]

not worried about 100 percenting tbh but appreciate the honesty im not great at pvm i get kinda panicked somtimes in high stress situations which is funny cause i play dark souls regualry and that does nothing to me xD

[dull tusk]

the real frustration with awakened whisperer though isnt that its just that hard though, its that every pass needs you to farm another drop, and unlike gridmaster we cant 1 tap spec vardorvis (well, some of us cant)

[velvet flume]

unless i'm on the wrong thing, the dps calc doesn't show the leagues items?

[dull tusk]

yeah they have to update it

[junior phoenix]

It does do blindbags now, they're shit except with either 2-3t melee weapons, with a 5t weapon it does like 4 extra dps

[small flower]

unless it's been updated in the last 4 seconds

[dull tusk]

give it a few hours and theyll probably be up

[small flower]

yea i was planning hally but it just doesn't seem worth it

[dull tusk]

those wiki guys work fast

[small flower]

much rather just mainhand the amox echo

[glacial geyser]

they rly do

I was surprised they had worked the skill tree in already

[junior phoenix]

Imagine trying to get blorva in the main game as an iron with no main...

[dull tusk]

honestly i would say you should plan your build less around being the strongest and more around what personally interests you. we will all be strong by the looks of it

[tough finch]

jagex hinted towards this with all the previews in the video. bluetooth hally into blindbag ain't shit compared to fast multi hitting weaps like that

[junior phoenix]

Bluetooth hally is unfortunately just bad, I was planning on doing it for me mory/tirannwn run, but now not so much

[dull tusk]

i dont need to. i tried

and failed

but tried

[next dock]

What do y’all think would make a good third zone after wildy/desert?

[glacial geyser]

what style are you going?

[next dock]

Was planning around ranged.

[glacial geyser]

kand worth for zennys maybe?

suffering for thorns and anguish for +str

[small flower]

kinda whatever you wanna actually do, asgarnia gets you vambs, kandarin gets you neck, but neither would really be necessary

[junior phoenix]

Kandarin for anguish and good mage options, zeah so you have lots of stuff to do, tirannwn so you can get the full ranged tree, whatever you like really

[dull tusk]

whats desert for? blowpipe?

[glacial geyser]

toa I imagine

[junior phoenix]

Masori

[dull tusk]

ah checks out

[next dock]

Toa

[dull tusk]

im sure the blowpipe doesnt hurt either

[next dock]

Yeah

[cyan oxide]

i'm personally thinking wildy/asgarnia/desert

[small flower]

am less enthused about a blowpipe with no speed boost
KTW looking like silly machinegun fun with accursed

[dull tusk]

hmmmm well it sounds like you're ranged should be strong enough already, so maybe consider what you want on the side. or in abscence of anything, just take fremenik for the cool helmet. stat sticks never failed anyone.

[next dock]

Fremmy also gets the backpack

[glacial geyser]

helm looks super mid unless im missing smth

[glacial geyser]

backpack?

[small flower]

it looks great for tank/thorns ranger or mage

[flint cloud]

im so happy with the kandarian echoes, theyre better than i ever couldve hoped they would be lol

[next dock]

Ava’s assembler

[dull tusk]

its the slayer helmet pretty much. if you arent taking culling, its one of the only ways to actually acquire an imbued slayer helmet effect

[slate drift]

Do you think with the map of alacrity, someone could reach the obelisk of water without unlocking Asgarnia (but having Kandrin)?

[tacit oyster]

cant wait to not get confirmation about the king's echo double attack before league starts

[small flower]

lol, i guess that just depends on what the mods figured the "weaker" side was

[tardy bay]

I will be doing bluetooth chally. It procs ranged echos, blindbags, and melee ranged echos. Ranged echo can then proc other ranged echos up to 4 times

[small flower]

yea, the melee ranged echo part in general looks quite nice for any 2hander build

[glacial geyser]

is anyone looking at throwing build or is xbow just way better?

[slate drift]

I mean, it’s a one-way shortcut and the map will start to on the less favorable side or the starting end of a one-way

🤔

[next dock]

Well, water Obby shortcut is one way

[small flower]

worst case you have a tele to a beach i guess

[tardy bay]

If they code it properly, the ranged echoes procd by melee 2hander should count as bow, xbow, and throwing. So you can get all 3 big pacts for ranged echos

[dull tusk]

there are only 3 ways to acquire an imbued slayer helmet effect this league - culling, which inhibits taking grimoire or the unrevealed 3rd relic, that helmet, or kandarin AND morytania at once. to my knowledge. So i think the helmet effect is stronger than most realize

[small flower]

the way its worded i've been assuming you can get all 3 of the first nodes for each to work

so +15% from cbow, never miss and 20% maxhit

[glacial geyser]

yeah its clearly intedned to give you all 3

[dull tusk]

they hard confirmed that on stream yesterday

[tough finch]

the wiki for shadowflame doesn't understand what gagex said about it

[tardy bay]

And i have to use chally cause chally uses charges which procs more ranged echoes

[wary egret]

Is devils element going to be a better offhand than arcane spirit shield?

[tough finch]

to me it seems like the staff pretends any element you use is the element your target is weakest to, regardless of which spell you really cast (but still lets you benefit from the elemental nodes you selected in regards to what you cast)

[glacial geyser]

probably

[toxic vortex]

Yes that is how it will work

[dull tusk]

yeah the video showed them physically casting air spells but doing earth spell dmg at huey, and a few other explicit examples

its purely a damage modifier

[small flower]

so standard caster looking better and better

[tough finch]

as a mage enjoyer I think I must go kandarin this league. makes selecting other regions tough. I don't want to only have 1 raid to do with my friends, but it's tough not also taking tirannwyn

[glacial geyser]

yeah I think standard spellbook with maybe 2 main elements is the way to go

[small flower]

keep in mind the crystal bonus says powered staves

[glacial geyser]

it does still give some acc and %dmg

but yeah not the full benefit

[tough finch]

ohhh only powered magic weapons

[small flower]

for the traditional crystal armor bonus at least yea

you'd get the 20/+2% per, but wouldn't it still be a net negative magic attack bonus?

I can't math, it's still a net +20

[glacial geyser]

oh I thought the +20/+2% was on the item itself

no you are right

its per armour piece equipped

[dull tusk]

since they made surge spells good too kandarin is really a one stop shop. wrath runes included

[wary egret]

Does shadowflame recast also proc rune regeneration?

[dull tusk]

no it doesnt use more runes

[small flower]

so i guess it'd still be a .. slightly better virtus

[dull tusk]

but surge spells have inherently very high costs associated

[small flower]

so not a terrible choice if you hate farming DT2 guys

[coral silo]

yes it procs rune regen

[dull tusk]

no the recast doesnt

[glacial geyser]

based on the wording of the staff I think it doesn't

[small flower]

rune regeon on the recast would be weird for fire regen effect...

[coral silo]

regarding rune regen
#leagues-general message

[glacial geyser]

it 'fires an additional spell' you do not cast it

[dull tusk]

its not a recast, its a 2nd hit, like twinflame

twinflame wiki 'Note that the second spell does not give Magic or Hitpoints experience, nor consume runes'

[cursive edge]

https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=BlackSealedThieves

this is my 48 DPS wind surge setup.

Gotta add 30% to the 37% magic dmg (forced air weakness from devils element)

so 24 * 1.67 = 40 damage

then a 56% multiplier from 8 prayers active

40 * 1.56 = 62 damage

Then 40% extra hit from staff

62 * 1.4 = 86 damage

And 100% chance to max hit every time

So 86/1.8 = 47.7 DPS vs ANYTHING

[glacial geyser]

I don't think the 40% hit is cast though

[dull tusk]

regen is in fact based on the runes used, that was just a wrong statement

[glacial geyser]

that implies you could use combo runes then

[dull tusk]

'whenever your combat spells regenerate earth runes' explicitly describes proccing on regenerate itself

i think if you used combo runes it would proc nothing as you arent using either of the specified runes

[cloud panther]

Is the EKBD crossbow one handed or two

[dull tusk]

they count as those runes, but the regennerated rune isnt either

[tacit oyster]

2 handed crossbow

[dull tusk]

they make it very very clear on every regenerate node that it scales not with number of hits, but with times regenerated and number of runes regenerated in those times

[cloud panther]

btw this has been on my mind. If Asgarnia isn't available how do you get anti-fire shields

[glacial geyser]

leageus tutor?

[toxic vortex]

Slayer shops

[cloud panther]

oo

[tacit oyster]

any slayer master sells antifire and elemental shields

[toxic vortex]

Thats basic info on the leagues page

[cloud panther]

ty

I must of skimmed that part

[coral silo]

misthalin, you mean

[cloud panther]

ya I kno for some reason I mix those two up all the time

[dull tusk]

im trying to think what my magic build even needs after already having kandarin and varlamore.... i guess im just free to pick my favorites

[small flower]

varlamore start frees up quite a lot, is nice

[toxic vortex]

T works with magic this year

[glacial geyser]

probably mory to get the free slayer helm

[tight mortar]

Happy that we got a mage sunfire spear for solo tobs

[glacial geyser]

because you will need a lot of slayer for thermy

[warped turtle]

may be a dumb question but is there any utility in Zanaris to be aware of? Its free for everyone from the start right?

[glacial geyser]

then you can take grimoire

[dull tusk]

yeah it does but i dont need a magic armor gear set, moons already gives a serviceable one

[toxic vortex]

its the only place at the start to get slayer tasks, so yes

[wary egret]

Culling seems like a stronger and stronger pick if going wildy and kandarin

[tough finch]

but as someone mentioned to me, the set effect is for powered staves only

[dull tusk]

i can find a better upgrade in kourend if i were to go for that

[tough finch]

So if you do kandarin for elemental, it's not as good

[toxic vortex]

sure, but its a consideration still

[toxic vortex]

are you taking grim?

[dull tusk]

its not much of a consideration for ele spells since the set bonus isnt much better than just having moons

[small flower]

little higher %magic, but the accuracy loss is a decent chunk

[dull tusk]

hardly justifies a whole region, though its a fine upgrade if you just like the zone

[small flower]

it's definitely tankier though? could be a good option for a thorns mix

[dull tusk]

with our general accuracy level being tanky is a worthy consideration for sure

[cloud panther]

grim?

[dull tusk]

grimoire id assume

[cloud panther]

ah

[dull tusk]

i cant say cause it entirely depends on whats next on the relic reveals

they said the next relic is tankiness - if it is, ill just slap on that and take kourend cause i like kourend and it happens to be good

[small flower]

am hoping the last t8 is something fun, i've never liked the guardians, nor the invuln/autorevives :/

[wary egret]

Am I gonna have to reload soul harvester or is ouriana altar and transmute enough with kandarin?

[dull tusk]

transmute sounds like plenty to me

[tough finch]

do yall think it's worth it to go for a stronger early game kind of thing like fast melee + thorns and then respec into a preferred build after you get into some of the late game content to actually start getting decent pact points

[small flower]

first tree being something for one specific boss seems very practical to me

[tough finch]

I worry going mage early will feel bad compared to something like that

like you don't want to mage moons

[small flower]

like entire spec around mid-tier gear so you can do awkened whisper or something

then swap out

[dull tusk]

it wont be speedrunning the skill but what transmute does do is make the skill chill if it works how i think it would work

[cursive edge]

So I think minmaxed Wind Surge does 48 DPS, minmaxed Fire Surge does 55.5 DPS

[potent quail]

moons you will do mellee even if you have no mellee pacts

the benefit of mage early is prayer and healing sustain

[glacial geyser]

for kandarin is this really all you need for standard spells? fire for dmg and water for sustain
https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-112-113-114-117-118-119-44-45-46-47-56-59-60-68-69

[latent magnet]

There's already a dps calc?

[tacit oyster]

mage only into tirannwn 1st selection so you dont need to care about mage gear and can just do gauntlet for bis mage armor

[potent quail]

but do you actually switch between the 2? that seems like to much effort

[cursive edge]

I'm doing them

[dull tusk]

missing the 2 tick speedup

[glacial geyser]

its more like leave it on fire and manual case some waters if you get low

[potent quail]

if you reach 100% regenerate rate you only need 1 wrath rune and can perma surge

[latent magnet]

Holy shit good luck lol 🙏

[cloud panther]

Just a note. Any essence transmuted from runes is auto noted so you cant sit next to the alter and xmute essence

[glacial geyser]

ok so 17 pts for a serviceable build

[small flower]

one manual water surge every few hits would probably keep you topped up yea

that might even be the way to go for cerb dagger

just blast with ice barrage every once in a while

[coral basin]

Question for people who played in last league, if my hardest pvm encounter ive done in the main game was Moons, is there any chance I can do echo bosses or am I lacking experience

[small flower]

you'll learn

[wicked mountain]

should be fine

[small flower]

worst case, you die, and go right back

[coral basin]

That is true

[cloud panther]

with the right setup you can smoke most encounters

[dull tusk]

https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-10-112-113-114-117-118-119-122-44-45-46-47-55-56-57-58-59-6-60-61-62-64-67-68-69-70-9-94-96 this is how it might look around 30 which is still a fairly easy number to get just later in the run

[coral basin]

I really like the hespori bow

[tacit oyster]

echo cerberus might he hard if you go melee but otherwise i think they are fine if you take some time to learn mechanics

[dull tusk]

i do think 100% regen is something your 17 pointer should invest into on the way to point 20 though

or youll bleed runes and get less effect of regen perks

[small flower]

if only undead grasp counted as a fire spell

[coral basin]

Is it fine if i dont know what all my regions are off the rip if i know my first one

[small flower]

still gets the +12 damage from regen i guess

[cursive edge]

Do we know if def pots scale the Permanent Defence Levels you get from the pact tree?

[small flower]

yea, especially with karamja being an unlock now, you'll have a good amount of time to figure the rest out

or the whole weekend if you wanna sit around and figure it out before league starts too

[dull tusk]

https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-10-112-113-114-117-118-119-122-44-45-46-47-56-59-6-60-62-64-68-69-9 22 pointer with accuracy roll benefits to compensate low accuracy % investment and 100% regen

[small flower]

I think it was stated somewhere that they do, as well as the earth regen proc (but not both together?) (not potion and the earth regen bonus together i mean.. i think)

[dull tusk]

this is the earliest i think you can get the 'full package' while covering all your bases

[velvet flume]

can someone help me understand something about the devil's element please? it just means that if it already has an elemental weakness then it gets another 30% added right? like it doesn't just apply 30% to any monster even if it doesn't

[small flower]

it does both

[dull tusk]

it applies 30% universally, additive with whatever it may or may not have

[small flower]

^

[dull tusk]

it shows in the video it giving 30% to a 0% mob, and then an extra 30% to a mob with some already

[tough finch]

i'm still probably going to attempt to do a mid game blue moon blindbag build and abuse grasp procs

[plain merlin]

it used to just straight up double so if an npc had 50 it would add 50

[small flower]

i'm absolutely starting my mage with a tree for that

just to try it

lol

[plain merlin]

now its a flat 30% right

[dull tusk]

yeah now its less strong in the best cases, but more universal

good tradeoff

[cursive edge]

ok, so you can reach >216 defence level, giving 18 flat damage. Decent chance that damage is not reduced to 40% on the 2nd shadowflame hit

[small flower]

maybe, idk if the potion will give boost based on the 159 or the 99

[cursive edge]

Unclear if the 18 flat damage is scaled by %magic dmg and %earth weakness. Anyone know?

[dull tusk]

yeah i dont think potion will stack

[small flower]

though even the 14 flat you'd get with 188 or w/e would be really nice

[dull tusk]

additional flat damage sounds like unscaleable, though it will be used as derivative for the second hit from the ele staff

which scales it up by 40%

[small flower]

yea, i'd guess it's seperate final addition, since it's worded differently than the fire rune regen node

[dull tusk]

so at minimum its value would be 25 with proper earth spells and that staff

which sounds good to me personally

[cursive edge]

it isnt good if that's all it gives

compared to wind/fire

[dull tusk]

well it isnt

it gives you tankiness

[small flower]

fire isn't that much higher

[dull tusk]

thats the main draw, the damage is to keep it leagues level power

[small flower]

though i guess you also get burns

[cursive edge]

well fire is giving 27 flat damage

[dull tusk]

even for your damage part of it will surely come from thorns

yeah but fire costs hp meaning you have to heal

[smoky raft]

how, pray tell, are you expecting to reach 216 def

There's +60 passive and the earth regen pact only scales up to 20% of your base level (ie... 19)

[cursive edge]

im thinking though mechanically the dmg for fire and the dmg for earth are not functionally the same

[cloud panther]

is tommorow the reveal for the final two relics?

[dull tusk]

assumption is potion works. i doubt it, but for maths sake we're going with it

[cursive edge]

its possible the earth damage is not reduced by the 2nd shadowflame hit

[small flower]

fire has more utility for sure, with burns and the aoe bounce

earth seems like a very nice stable option though

[smoky raft]

I'm pretty sure they said potions won't stack with the passive levels as they're both visible boosts

[cursive edge]

ok well im assuming both def pots and earth regen pact scale off the 159, though dont scale each other. So +31 from each

[cursive edge]

ah ok

ok so 15 flat damage then?

[shrewd wyvern]

Can I get some clarification on the Conniving Clues relic?
Is it similar to past leagues where is still includes perks of least steps+most rolls for clue items?

[small flower]

14 or 15 yea, idk how they round these things

[cursive edge]

makes earth regen thing pretty useless tho..?

[dull tusk]

anyways half of the 'earth tank' damage is inevitably thorns

[small flower]

so 21/22 counting shadowflame

[smoky raft]

14 or 15 depending on how they truncate

[cursive edge]

if youre using brews you already get more than a 20% boost tod efence

[dull tusk]

you are scaling defence to be tanky not to deal the max dps with hits, which can be applied into throns

[cursive edge]

so its a waste of a point if they dont stack

you cant do thorns with devils element tho

and devils element is 36% dmg boost

and 30% accuracy

[smoky raft]

It's still +19 def levels, and it likely will be further increased by prayers

[dull tusk]

you cant do thorns on tree, you CAN do echo boots

[cursive edge]

yeah but my point is, you could just drink a potion instead

[cloud panther]

crap I didn't think about that. Devil's and Thorns wont stack

[cursive edge]

and spend that 1 pt elsewhere

[small flower]

the defense total to recoil damage doesn't require a shield 😄

[smoky raft]

I mean, sure, if you don't have the passive def levels picked

[cursive edge]

ehhh, so forced into melee range, and to get hit. I guess it works

[small flower]

but yea that's a relatively minor effect

[dull tusk]

forced into like 3 nodes in melee area that dont interact with any other melee

and any non meleer can attack you from further, which is actually better for you

[cursive edge]

prayers dont impact your 'current defence level' which is what earth scales off of

[hardy heart]

So with the crystal blessing, full crystal and tumeken shadow:

I assume that the 6% magic dmg from the blessing gets tripled by the shadow passive?

But the crystal armour buffs would not

[velvet flume]

okay i see why mage build is so big now

[smoky raft]

no, but they impact your def rolls

[cursive edge]

yeah

[small flower]

probably yes

[dull tusk]

yeah ur kinda forgetting that half the draw of this build is facetanking, and only considering the dps

any defence bonus at all buffs your facetank

the facetank in some situations could also buff your dps

[cursive edge]

yeah im just trying to find the best dps mage setup

IF earth flat damage is not reduced on the 2nd shadowflame hit, it actually could be the best dps lol

[dull tusk]

its fire for sure, especially in multi enemy situations, notably collosseum and inferno. you just gotta heal up sometimes and you will be less tanky

[winged trench]

May be dumb question, but does the crystal blessing apply to all range weapons? Or just the bowfa?

[smoky raft]

Just the bowfa

[winged trench]

RIP

[dull tusk]

it doesnt follow with anye xisting mechanics to assume that. derivative secondary hits dont scale with anything at all, cause they already adopt the scaling the first hit did

[cloud panther]

With gear with the absolute highest defence bonuses I think you can get the recoil to hit like 90 total with each hitsplat

[dull tusk]

if they did, they would double dip like this and quickly become OP

[cursive edge]

24 base * 1.4 from shadowflame, so 33.6

Then add 15 flat damage to each hitsplat, which is equivalent to 30 max hits to each hitsplat, so 60 max hits combined

so 93.6 max hit equivalent

Then 30% earth weakness, and 55% inc magic damage from gear/tree

93.6 * 1.85 = 173

(173/2)/1.8 = 48 DPS

Same value I got for Air, though Earth is way tankier

[dull tusk]

the only known double hit scaling that stacks like that is flat armour, which is different as its an enemy side dmg taken modifier not a player side damage increased modifier

[smoky raft]

Flat damage is an existing mechanic, and it does work this way in the main game

[dull tusk]

yeah i covered that

it was made differently to ensure it works exactly in this way, specifically

[small flower]

using suffering+echo boots yea, though the actual recoils will only trigger on you actually being hit

[smoky raft]

Flat armour is handled player side

[gaunt creek]

What’s the solve for con?

[smoky raft]

you wouldn't get the xp from the boosted hits otherwise

[dull tusk]

but its a quality on the monster which is a difference in design

im not saying its a technical level im saying its a consistency in design level

[proper stratus]

does anyone know if the drygore blowpipe counts as a thrown weapon?

[cloud panther]

it does

[small flower]

it should yea, regular bp does

[smoky raft]

• EH + teaks
• Any region with mahogany homes
• With enough gp, stonemason in varlamore

[winged trench]

It should

[dull tusk]

they dont want you to double dip on player side mods, but they introduced that new form of monster side mods to say that these are the specific places you can get this double dip mechanic, in specific ways

on a design level it paints a clean distinction

[proper stratus]

ty all

[dull tusk]

so we can assume they maintain that distinction unless otherwise specified

[small flower]

butler bell will throw planks at you as well, would be an option

[smoky raft]

I see no distinction, let alone a clean one lmao

[dull tusk]

there is one. its the only mechanic in the game that works like that

that alone is a distinction, it being an exception in explicit purpose marks the rule

so i wont assume another exception unless that explicit purpose is also marked

[wary egret]

You can get wildy slayer tasks from shilo right?

[wanton arrow]

Anyone found/made a good potential build around the tecpatl?

[dull tusk]

you can get normal slayer tasks which you can happen to complete in the wilderness if you also have it, but it wont count as wildy slayer

[cloud panther]

Any slayer task from any master done in wildy counts

[dull tusk]

i think they referenced a solution to getting wildy slayer tasks but we dunno what it is

[gaunt creek]

Any region that has homes has access? Doesn’t have to include asg?

[winged trench]

How good is “elemental balances” for construction exp? The league planner I saying that’s my best method

[cloud panther]

Any slayer task from any slayer master done in the wild counts

[smoky raft]

Correct, assuming it wasn't changed since the last league

[cloud panther]

hmmm

[cursive edge]

I still think my powered staff + thorns build beats all ele spells in terms of DPS

but its close

and vs anything with actual ele weakness then ele spells win

[dull tusk]

seems pretty cheap and good. i dont think it works with any regen mechanics but in general runes will be easy to get and will not deplete

[smoky raft]

close enough that ele wins from the side spec into tanking lmao

[cloud panther]

was gunna do a earth mage thorns build but didnt think about it needing a shield. So can't use devils element

[cursive edge]

well the fire/air setups are def not tankier

[wary egret]

So like larrans keys are live?

[cursive edge]

earth is tankier, but the assumptions giving it competitive DPS could be totally wrong

[cloud panther]

yes

[tacit oyster]

most things seems to be capping around 50 dps, so i guess safe to assume king's barrage is not doing double damage for 90+ dps

[cursive edge]

and I mean the powered staff setup is very tanky still, it has actual healing which earth does not

[velvet flume]

whats the demonbane solution if you go elemental build?

[cursive edge]

and way better aoe clear from thorns + GG staff spec

[smoky raft]

I click the shark

[cursive edge]

i want to solo raids and whatnot

[smoky raft]

don't need one

[cursive edge]

and do long trips

[cursive edge]

lmao yeah theres no way its doin 90

[ionic dust]

Ladies and gents a quick question. Will for example tomeken take advantage of both the normal damage increase of crystal armor and the 2% magic dmg and 20 acc increase per piece with the Crystal blessing equipped?

[cloud panther]

what is this setup you mention

[dull tusk]

whats the planner ur using though? i can see if the why they say its good is accurate

[dull tusk]

if you physically need demonbane for a fight they provide one in echo amox

[tacit oyster]

you can get ayak from doom or even use demonbane spells if arceuus/zeah

[smoky raft]

ayak isn't demonbane

[tacit oyster]

you can easily brute force doom to like delve 50 without even killing grubs

[tough finch]

Random thought, the 2nd hits from the sub 1kg melee node can enable the dogger's 2nd hit to increase the damage from your dogger's fire spell

[weary drift]

Hey is the dps calc for leagues correct???

[smoky raft]

It's also probably one of the weaker powered staves

[tough finch]

if you take the 25% damage from max hitting node I mean

[weary drift]

Because I think thrown might be a lil strong

[smoky raft]

Mostly! Some of the pacts don't work

[weary drift]

Dragon knives on my set up seem to hit 100 max hits??

[velvet flume]

elemental builders, what areas are you gonna go?

[tacit oyster]

for doom's grubs it will act as demonbane and oneshot them. Not actual demonbane yeah

[small flower]

since it's calling it a spell effect, i would think so?
assuming you maxhit

[cursive edge]

Mory + Wildy + Tirannwn

https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=MaulThickCracker

From what I can tell, the GG staff is around 5-7% more dps than Sang, but I'd be using both. Swap to sang for healing or attacking from >3 tiles, use GG for when I'm up close or need AoE.

Wiki calc ofc doesnt factor in the Crystal Blessing effects, and is missing the bit of extra damage from fire regen.

But accounting for these things manually, its 40 DPS with Sang, 42 DPS with Lithic Sceptre. And then 8 DPS extra from Thorns vs a 4 tick enemy.

Also gets lots of spec for Thammarons and Ayak to drain magic/defence vs bosses super resistant to magic.

[smoky raft]

Oh lmao I know very little about the Doom fight

[cursive edge]

.

[smoky raft]

I just know there's something called car phase

[dull tusk]

a drop from doom to farm doom seems really backwards. im sure many will wanna do doom really early its worth considering

so its good they added this tool

[tough finch]

I'm going kandarin and zeah for my core, then prob morytania for tob with the boys

[dull tusk]

allows you to get by on mechanics rather than pure OP stats, before you've scaled up

[cloud panther]

thank you

[velvet flume]

thats what i was thinking too

[tough finch]

yeah with the idea being lower max hit is easier to proc, and it's attacking so fast it's not that crazy to see often

still prob not amazing

[dull tusk]

a lot of people seem to have the conception that you spawn in at 40 points and all relics and all gear and dont have to consider what/how youll kill things while weaker to get there

[small flower]

the base strength on the dagger kinda put me off it tbh

i was lookin forward to it

[smoky raft]

alr yall

Do you think I'll be able to reliably kill blue moon by bashing her with a staff in addy plate

[tough finch]

yeah straight up, looking at the task list changed my plans entirely

[dull tusk]

if you stack flat defence levels early on for sure

[smoky raft]

oh true

[dull tusk]

you should really farm for amox first i think

just cause that weapon will be so good for em

[twin ermine]

Is leviathan accessible without misthalin?

[velvet flume]

whats solution for wrath runes? if you dont go frem

[tacit oyster]

leviathan is desert

[smoky raft]

desert has it

[small flower]

transmutation

will upgrade anything into wrath runes

[cloud panther]

Aight im outta here. Cya all

[twin ermine]

Yeah but don’t you need gotr to access

[dull tusk]

plus i think rushing the new echo bosses makes for the most fun encounters. so i wont waste the opportunity to do it in rags

[velvet flume]

thank you!

[tacit oyster]

desert has teleporter to gotr which is used to also access leviathan

[small flower]

yea, plus the fact they seem to want to keep people in varlamore a bit longer to start

all the more incentive to push the amoxliatl kills

[dull tusk]

varlamore has a lot to do i dont mind chillin there for a good bit

[smoky raft]

I'm not pushing amox early

[small flower]

yep, did varlamore on 2 chars last league, love the place, and now its even bigger

[tacit oyster]

Kings barrage splits its max hit between both attacks. Its a multi hit weapon like the infernal tecpatl

#1163395763146068008 message

nice actually got confirmation about the king's barrage

I dont have to go Wilderness* now

[small flower]

that's useful on several points

[cursive edge]

Wind surge build that has 100% chance to max hit 86 each time does seem pretty fun lol

But not very tanky

[tacit oyster]

Now all i need to choose is going to zeah or reloading into grimoire

[small flower]

well, you'll have infinite prayer

just run redemption

and hope nothing ever hits over a 10

[cursive edge]

lol

[small flower]

honestly could just do the same as with fire

manually cast a water surge when needed

[tacit oyster]

all surges can get infinite prayer with 1 point into air rune regen

[cursive edge]

Yeah prayer is easy

[small flower]

that is a fair point

[unreal crow]

How effective do surge builds get vs raids and sol though? Just concerned about the endgame on a mage build

[dull tusk]

water regen is so absurd yeah that you can just cast 1 spell and go back to it

raids? absolutely no issue? Sol? your concern isnt sol its getting to him

he goes down like a stack of jenga blocks

[cursive edge]

I think 1t powered staff builds with wildy do the best on that kind of content. Getting 2% spec per 1t attack, with Thammarons + Ayak specs to drain stats

I'll be maging Sol Heredit with this shit

[tacit oyster]

max mage probably like 30-40% accuracy on sol, without magic defence reduction

[dull tusk]

fire surge builds target bounce which should make solves on colo very very simple

[small flower]

yea, definitely doing KTW, just seems fun with accursed

both with the hits and spec

[wicked mountain]

u guys think a dhins door blindbag thorns build is bait?

[small flower]

i think it's 100% viable and will probably never die

[cursive edge]

yeah

[dull tusk]

it will be tanky. thats all i promise

[small flower]

whether or not it's enjoyable is something else

[cursive edge]

KTW? no raid?

[dull tusk]

if you're fine with a build that has still better than maingame dps but is ungodly tanky, shoot for it

[small flower]

gonna probably do 2 chars and have my other guy in mory XD

[dull tusk]

it just wont be high dps competetive

[tacit oyster]

dinh's with thorns + V's helm + flask should be hard to die, outside zuk and yama

[small flower]

i always end up doing 2 or 3 chars anyway, better to just accept it now

[weary drift]

Do we know of the dagger spec works with devils element??

[small flower]

the fire effect is a spell

so yes

[wicked mountain]

i mean thorns will do around 35 dmg per hit flat. + any recoils

[dull tusk]

ya it does

[tough finch]

not every subspec should be about trying for "max dps". a lot of the fun is in unconventional but powerful playstyles. Door build is totally strong enough

[tacit oyster]

Fang of the hound's spell does count as a fire spell for the purpose of pacts, it does benefit from having a devil's element equipped and it is considered a light weapon

[dull tusk]

the recoils each get the flat damage added independantly btw

but yeah ur just waiting for the npc to attack you, which makes it fundamentally inconsistent

[small flower]

eyp, so as long as things are actually hitting you, potential is pretty high

[wicked mountain]

yea and u can 2 right? echo boots and suffering count seperate right?

[dull tusk]

in certain scenarios it will pull out more dps than anything else does

[small flower]

but with defense that high, you won't get hit as often

soooo

actual damage may vary

[wicked mountain]

i mean u still hit stuff with door and blindbag

[small flower]

yep, that's true

[wicked mountain]

aoe clear for slayer should be fine with thorns

also scythe aoe blindbag hits

[dull tusk]

yeah ur just using dihns and tank gear which means you wont be doing as much damage as someone else

[tacit oyster]

zcb build with only healing being onyx bolt (e) and flask, unless last t8 replaces flask

[wicked mountain]

oh yea

[small flower]

will probably still see fun cascades occasionally with the blindbags/ranged echos

[dull tusk]

its leagues-appropriate damage numbers, but it specs more into tank than top level damage

just as long as you know that, its great

[wicked mountain]

yea

[small flower]

also, lots of raid gear

[wicked mountain]

went range last league. dps was insane but 1t knifes were giga boring

[dull tusk]

all of the builds this league are cool thankfully

all stacked with flavor adding special effects

[wicked mountain]

yea the new tree is rly cool

mayeb jsut gonna do 2 chars

[cursive edge]

pure recoil builds are gonna struggle hard at Sol

[dull tusk]

they did a good job of making it so everything wasnt 'you pull out shadow and attack gooder' while making that still be an option but not an outlier in power

[cursive edge]

Since you dont even get hit

a 0

[wicked mountain]

i mean ur still meele with blindbag

recoil for solves and just normal meele for sol

u always carry 5 extra melee weapons anyway^^

[tacit oyster]

some attacks might not even be able to recoil damage, like does sol spear or shield even count as sol damage. Things like warden p3 didnt count as warden damage in gridmaster

[small flower]

true, just have hally in bag and swap if you need to lol

[dull tusk]

thorns should work well enough as it procs even if you get hit a 0, making it a good baseline

[small flower]

(or i guess if you've already got justi+door, you've got scythe)

[wicked mountain]

yea depends on what order to do stuff

[small flower]

time to find out if you can actually melee zuk i guess

[wicked mountain]

haha

what range do you need to hit zuk?

[dull tusk]

no rule against pulling in a weapon swap for when the thorns is totally useless, in fact you have to for blindbag

[small flower]

not sure, i think 7 should work for most of it though, if not the corners

[dull tusk]

it definitely works, it matches the distance cap of other ranged weapons which can kill zuk. though youll have that same low range awakwardness yes

for most purposes a 7 ranged halberd can effectively be envisioned as if you have an RCB on rapid

though im not sure you can go over objects in the same way, need to see ingame

id put my money on 'probably'

[small flower]

probably? the same as if you were gonna hally a varrock guard over a fence

but... fence... giant rock.... what's the difference really

[dull tusk]

yeah thats what i mean by see ingame like id need to open the game and try doing exactly that

i didnt remember if it worked

[tacit oyster]

it will work as ranged over things that do not block line of sight

all 2 range weapons can also hit flying enemies according to jmods

[twin ermine]

Any improvements? Dinh’s bulwark rush. ZTM

Endless harvest
Woodsman
Evil eye
Transmutation
Larcenist
Probably culling spree? Depends how much I feel I need piety (I dont)
Almost certainly reloaded for soul harvest
Almost certainly minion

https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-135-136-139-140-141-145-146-150-151-152-153-154-155-156-157-161-165-43-58-6-61-62-63-64-71-73-74-8-80-84-86-88-9-92-93-94-95-98-99

[wicked mountain]

id still take range echos can retrigger for shits and giggles

[small flower]

going hard for the defense nodes feels slightly counter to wanting to be hit for recoils

[wicked mountain]

thorns will trigger either way

[bleak depot]

Just dont wear armor lolol

[dull tusk]

unless you are taking fremmy or morytania, culling spree is objectively better dps than grimoire in any slayer applicable monster

[small flower]

thorns will yea

oh, not K anyway, just thorns focus

[wicked mountain]

also culling spree stacks with slayer helm for anyone taking mory

[bleak depot]

If I’m taking mory anyway and using crystal for mage you think slayer helm and crystal or just crystal?

[dull tusk]

no it does not

'Wearing a slayer helmet while having this relic unlocked will not double the effects of the slayer helmet'

[twin ermine]

wtf lmao

[wicked mountain]

did they change it?

[dull tusk]

you absolutely want culling spree

[wicked mountain]

bc i could have sworn to read it the other way around

sry then

[dull tusk]

strong helmet + slayer helm effect, its a good combo

[languid mauve]

They already said it doesnt stack

[dull tusk]

no need for slayer helm

[twin ermine]

Oh true, I can probably drop a +5 defense boost for it

[languid mauve]

Wrong reply but it doesnt stack

[bleak depot]

Yeah but Crystal will have a full set effect anyway won’t it ?

[dull tusk]

also if you are a mage you cant Just take more, you HAVE to also take asgarnia for the slayer helm. or just fremmy

cause you have to imbue it

[bleak depot]

I’m going kmt

[dull tusk]

so you wont get the imbue, so its worthless

[twin ermine]

It’s to mix with the “gain a 0.1% chance to reflect all damage for each defense bonus” trait

[bleak depot]

Wasn’t planning on culling spree

Aight tysm

[dull tusk]

it literally will do nothing for a mage whatsoever

[bleak depot]

Yeah i figured

[languid mauve]

The echo item and the relic are both imbued

Versions

[dull tusk]

the morytania only slayer helm isnt

thats what i am talking about

[bleak depot]

^

[small flower]

yea i didn't see the regions, makes sense, and having the hally bonus to swap chally out where needed is nice, would definitely pick up the 15% extra echo chance from crossbow if possible though, and the can't miss one from bows
also the range str = 80% of melee str to actually make them hit well
that's like 6 points at that point though so maybe not

[languid mauve]

Yes it is the echo item?

Its imbued

[dull tusk]

no its not the echo item

fremmy is the echo item

this is the base game out the box slayer helmet

[bleak depot]

They’re talking about mory the OG slayer helm not culling spree

[dull tusk]

i would say v's helmet if i meant v's helmet

[bleak depot]

Not fremmy

[static notch]

What's Asgarnia for? (unless you meant Kandarin)

[languid mauve]

I think they’re confused

But let people dream i guess

[dull tusk]

asgarnia imbues

you dont get soul wars or pvp imbues, so you need nmz

[static notch]

nmz is kandarin

[dull tusk]

imbue enables the ranged and magic effects on the slayer helmet

[languid mauve]

Kanderin imbues

[dull tusk]

one of those i always get em confused

[copper gorge]

Have changed my starting relic path.

[languid mauve]

If they dont block nmz

[wicked mountain]

what places is prayer pen going to be relevant?

[dull tusk]

but either way you need two whole regions dedicated to slayer helmet imbueing morytania isnt enough

[copper gorge]

Woodsman over hot

[tacit oyster]

nmz has always been blocked but you can buy points with gp for imbue

[dull tusk]

i think they do block nmz but you can pay coins instead for imbues is the deal

[tough finch]

raids and certain bosses

[small flower]

some of the echo bosses probably, demonic gorillas, raids

[copper gorge]

Toa, cg, tob

[languid mauve]

Mory is black mask u can buy rest of components from any slayer master imbue is kanderin which any mage will be going

Unless ofc they block nmz again

Then i got no idea

Lol

[cursive edge]

Okayyyy hold on. Smoke Barrage might be the top DPS. I'm calcing 53.3 DPS with it

[dull tusk]

powered staff mages wont nessecarily go there its just an elemental thing

[static notch]

"Access to the Nightmare Zone is restricted. To obtain Nightmare Zone points speak to Dominic Onion and purchase them for 1 GP each."

[languid mauve]

Oh yeah im just assuming spell book mage likr im going

[dull tusk]

i dont think many spellbook mages are going morytania

[languid mauve]

Should i cry in emojis or voice message

[small flower]

that on the wiki calc? they have the echo items on it now? or just swapping spell to compare, shadowflame will boost surge another 40%

[languid mauve]

Oh wait no crying

[dull tusk]

so theyre kinda 2 regions at odds a bit, unless u want nightmare stuff i guess

[languid mauve]

They have gp trade nvm

[cursive edge]

I'm doing a bunch of manual calculations to account for missing things

[small flower]

ahh

[languid mauve]

Im also going for that 🙂

[dull tusk]

whats the draw?

[empty pagoda]

My calculation is I'm going to stab things with a halberd.

[cursive edge]

I have just realised though that minimum damage (like from the fire regen node) does nothing for air spells

Because it always max hits

[tacit oyster]

i guess i can run 2nd account for echo items... my main build ignores all echo weapons since nothing is worth for crossbow, wilderness would be basically same as zcb in asgarnia but wilderness is dead content with raggers

[cursive edge]

So the dps isnt 53.3

its like 47.7

same as wind surge

[languid mauve]

Kill the pkers

[small flower]

what minimum damage from fire regen

[dull tusk]

wilderness xbow is if nothing else an excellent swap to overheal

[cursive edge]

it adds min and max damage

[dull tusk]

overheal and freezing, even if you chose not to main that crossbow, i would find a worthwhile echo item to have on hand

[cursive edge]

if it adds 5 dmg, thats equivalent to 10 max hits in terms of DPS, unless youre using the wind spell capstone

[languid mauve]

Takes 10 points for 3 tick mage with the 60% heal, can do a crossbow for damage and water magic for heal as an option

[cursive edge]

in whcih case its more complicated

[smoky raft]

I forget, did the dragon sq shield half just drop as the full shield last time or nah

[small flower]

it should just be +4 damage

[languid mauve]

Nope

[small flower]

or 5 i guess if 125% regen works like that

[languid mauve]

Not a unique item

[smoky raft]

[dull tusk]

true but your water magic will do less dmg cause less investment which means less healing and also means your dps is being dragged down. compare that to faster healing at comparable damage

[cursive edge]

I'm goin 150% regen, 4 rune consumption. So it adds on average 6 damage

[static notch]

harm for +1/14 dps boost vs specifically no offstyle weakness is troll

[cursive edge]

For a non-air spell, that 6 damage is equivalent to adding 12 max hits in terms of DPS

but for air, its just 6

if you have 50 prayer

[languid mauve]

There is actually only a few damage nodes you can access without wasting points

[dull tusk]

if all you're doing is casting a water spell with no other investment but pacts and in ranger gear, i very much doubt your healing rates are any good

plus in this scenario you dont have wrath runes nessecarily

[small flower]

i'm lost, where's the distiction from non-air to air, smoke counts as air, and also gets the +6 from the fire regen, the fire regen does not specify type of spell, it should work for any spell that uses fire runes

[dull tusk]

the early in the tree rune regene ffects work as long as you use the runes, not based on your spell type

the ones that specify spell type later on need that spell type specifically, even if they otherwise have scaling with runes

[small flower]

yea, i'm not seeing where varlamoon is seperating smoke barrage to non-air in whatever he's calc'ing

that would certainly help push smoke up in the figure though, plus the natural higher maxhit

[twin ermine]

I got your set included but I’m 2 over budget, I might not need the bow perk since I have such high base accuracy already https://tools.runescape.wiki/demonic-pacts/?n=1-11-139-140-141-145-146-150-151-152-153-154-155-156-157-161-3-4-43-5-58-6-61-62-63-64-7-71-73-74-8-80-84-86-88-9-92-93-94-95-98-99

[small flower]

plus virtus I suppose? for higher %magic on ancients

[dull tusk]

smoke counts as air with the node for all purposes i can think of, except the 2nd hit from the kandarin staff

for the kandarin staff the difference is it specifies not element, but spellbook

[small flower]

actualy is crystal still best for air surge? magic attack, magic%, and prayer bonus

[wicked mountain]

why are you taking the ranged stuff when you go melee?

[smoky raft]

crystal bonus from blessing only applies to powered staves

[small flower]

for the echoes

the set bonus does yea

[wicked mountain]

it only applies when he has that wep equipped

[small flower]

but you still get +magic accuracy and +2% magic damage per piece

[twin ermine]

There’s a perk in melee that creates ranged echoes, and with the crossbow perk it’s a 20% chance to trigger them per melee swing

[languid mauve]

So 11 points and you will outheal any other styles healing. I would not call that a waste even if you have rag gear to heal 3 tick mage and water surge hitting roughly 30s would be healing 18s per 30 u would have 29 points to play with + also have the ability to utilize range node for the +25% damage for weapon swap

[dull tusk]

ranged echoes from melee count as all 3 weapons

[tough finch]

read the melee triggers ranged echos node, it pretends he DOES have all of those equipped

[wicked mountain]

yes but the ranged ones only apply when you have that weapon type equipped

[dull tusk]

which it explicitly makes you count as

they list em all out one by one and say yup, you count as them

[wicked mountain]

the multi procc woprks yes but not the other 3

[small flower]

"as if you have a bow, crossbow, and thrown weapon equipped"

[static notch]

virtus is also 2% per piece and crystal armour has negative magic attack bonuses

[wicked mountain]

ohhhhhh

[twin ermine]

Reading the tile explains the tile. Ranged echos from melee count as if you had all three ranged weapon types equipped

[wicked mountain]

sorry

[tough finch]

brother it literally says "triggers as if you have a bow, crossbow, and thrown equipped"

[dull tusk]

yeah any node thats specific to ranged echoes or ranged echoes with any weapon type works

[wicked mountain]

sorry sorry

[dull tusk]

as long as its effect and not rate of proccing

[cursive edge]

yeah crystal is only good if using powered staves

[small flower]

the crystal blessing adds +20 flat accuracy and 2% per piece worn

[dull tusk]

excpet the crossbow one

[small flower]

so it comes out to +20 , ain't crazy for accuracy but still overall good?

[languid mauve]

It would be really decent for anything thats not tumeken

[static notch]

that bumps it from -40 to +20 total, virtus is +69

[twin ermine]

It’s better than any other set I would imagine. Crystal goes fucking crazy with shadow too

[cursive edge]

So it seems like Smoke Barrage and Wind Surge have identical DPS. Just comes down to getting Wrath runes vs Ancients. Smoke Barrage also AoE so generally seems better

[twin ermine]

Transmute solves wrath runes easily

[small flower]

transmutation solves wraths easy

yea

[cursive edge]

Yeah, but that's a decision

[languid mauve]

Nope it wont

[small flower]

and there's always reloaded to grimoire if you dont want desert

[tough finch]

fire surge is ghetto aoe with kandarin staff

• nodes

[cursive edge]

If someone prefers butler or something, they may want to go smoke barrage

Ya fire surge is higher dps than both