& that's also a part of samsara cycle
#🤔｜theories
azure bay
nothing is eternal in samsara
even if you are a ghost one day you'll be reborn no matter how long it would take
royal notch
But it's strange that the only case we know it's William's one.
azure bay
But it's strange that the only case we know it's William's one.
Laura's as well, if we take her journey seriously
the problem is we don't know how long it would take them to be reborn with no tricks
royal notch
I think the only case of rebirth Is William, and now let me explain.
It's strange that, if you will always reborn, you don't have anything to do. So, it's strange that William's corrupted soul does everything in his power to get sacrifices, clocks ecc. for more than 60 years! I think William had been capable to become Laura only thanks the sacrifices. After the tree absorb them, he get in Samsara room. Laura's case Is different, she has literally changed the past, eviting his own suicide. That's the difference: William "accepts" his death but search another Life, Laura no, and changes the past.
azure bay
we don't know what was on their minds
royal notch
It's strange that, if you will always reborn, you don't have anything to do. So,...
Everyone could Reborn, but he needs something more.
azure bay
William had knowledge & resources to perform the ritual. Also Mr. Crow was on his side. Laura seems to have none of that so she has to find another way
technically it's not a rebirth on her behalf
but that's a way to have a human form once more
that's what unites Laura & William
they both wanted to live as humans
royal notch
Exactly!
They did that in different ways.
But that advantage my theory.
Go on, when you've finished i'll explain mine.
azure bay
I'd rather understand your point first
royal notch
OK, thanks, but go you First, i'm really, REALLY SLOW on tipying.😅
azure bay
But that advantage my theory.
you tell about our conclusions supporting your theory. I really need to know in what way in order to continue
royal notch
OK, i think that when someone die (in the Rusty Lake universe) the ghost and the corrupted soul of the person get separed from the body. We see rarely ghosts in games because theyre not so important. Then, if someone Is prived of his Memories, the corrupted soul can get the control of the body, which Is important, since in this way It could do things that couldn't do as a corrupted souls (a corrupted soul Is Simply another Ghost). This is obviousoly so much Easy if the body Is also dead (Laura's case), but if the person Is still alive, the corrupted soul has to fight with the real person, and he can win or lose this fight (Dale, Bob and Van Gogh's case). To become enlightened (that's how i call Mr Owl and co., "the enlighteneds"), a person could or get the elixir (Aldous), or get It as a "gift" of the Lake (Jakob's family). But if you don't have the elixir and you don't have passed your Life feeding the Lake, the only way to find enlighten Is forget his own life and Escape from his own mind. So, we know that Mr Owl need a successor, and this is the only way to enlight Dale. The First step Is Easy, and Dale lose his Memories in the incident in the cabin for the fault of Mr Deer's corrupted soul (that's why Mr Crow transport Dale right there, because he know that the 5 corrupted souls in the bottom attack everyone they see, this is clear in Lake and Cave), but, since he lose his Memories, Dale could lose his fight with his corrupted soul, and that's not good. So, for help Dale, the enlighteneds make him revisiting 2 memories opportunaly modificated by the Lake (Birthday and Theatre) for explaining their existance and what he could become, and then Dale get in the Paradox room (not real, only in his mind) to Escape from his mind and to accept definitely the enlighten. Meanwhile, Laura's corrupted soul, who has been able ti get the control of her body, in winter 1981 changes the past.
azure bay
once again, not every soul is corrupted
Jacob's soul was clean
he would probably be reborn as something else If Caroline did not make him Mr. Owl
royal notch
(if i say something wrong about Jakob's past, Is because i havent played Paradise yet)😅
Anyway, go on.
azure bay
then if the corrupted soul has left the body there's no reason for it to return there during memory-extraction
royal notch
Why not?
azure bay
how would it return?
royal notch
I don't know exactly, i'm not a corrupted soul! But i think that, if i am a ghost, i would prefer having a solid body.
azure bay
but you don't anymore
you've left it
it's useless
you are either separated or taking it over
royal notch
Yeah, it's a bit tricky, but listen: a corrupted soul would get the control of the body, but he can't immediatly because the body has still Memories. I mean, if my Memories get extracted, and then i die, my own corrupted soul get the body.
Laura's corrupted soul didn't get the body because the memories get extracted months After.
azure bay
In order to take the body you need to be inside it
& Dale with Bob clearly had some of their memories
Plus if Mr. Crow did everything carefully, Laura wouldn't be corrupted
It's just bad luck
royal notch
In order to take the body you need to be inside it
I'm not a Parapsicologist, but i think a corrupted soul could get inside the body whenever he wants.
azure bay
I'm afraid, it's highly subjective & impossible to prove
I think that CS are less about memories & more about emotional pain
I have to go. May I ping you later?
royal notch
It's just bad luck
I don't think so, Mr Owl only warned Mr Crow to pay attention. In Hotel, i think Mr Owl planned to make also dinners USING the guests also ti get rid of their bodies, because the corrupted souls would get the bodies and make a mess.
royal notch
I have to go. May I ping you later?
OK.
astral frost
@royal notch are you italian?
royal notch
Yes.
covert wyvern
Please keep it English in the main chats, thank you @astral frost
royal notch
Il primo che becco ahahahha
Ah! Ah! Ah! 
azure bay
@royal notch
In William's case no memories were involved and the old body was not wanted by the soul. So there should be another reason for that cannibalism.
As I told you, I tend to think that there are uncorrupted souls that are able to be reborn in different forms & one of this forms is corrupted. Then we can say for sure that you may or may not remember your past life. Mr. Crow remembers that he was Aldous, Laura seemingly doesn't remeber shat she was William. Mr. Owl remembers that he was Jacob, the guests seemingly don't remember that they were Eilanders. But apparently these past life memories are not gone, as it's confirmed that Laura's cubes still contain William's memories (especially, his elixir formula). Plus, Mr. Rabbit eventually remembers that he once was David. So my conclusion is that the soul always passes between bodies with all the memories it's currently in possesion. They may be very & very old and be hidden under the newer ones. That's probably why it's difficult to remember the past lifes.
So the soul is connected to the memories & probably it IS the memories (as your personality is defined just by your own past experience). Corrupted souls are also connected to their memories. They may hide in their cubes or even be remotely controled with these (both is true for the guests).
Corruption of a soul seems to be just another process not connected directly to the memories. In fact, all the ways I've presented above may be reduced to a single one. Strong negative feelings.
- As not all deaths corrupt the soul, only the horrible ones (or special in different way) could do that. Memories are not envolved at all. Especially in William's case.
- So-called taking over the living body seems to be caused by the depression & not by the memories (both real cases feature Bob & fall into this category)
- The memory exctraction may not lead to the corruption if performed carefully. Plus, exclusively black ones corrupt the soul. Therefore, the substance of black cubes leads to the corruption e.g. bad memories & emotions.
royal notch
Yes, you may be right. Only, i still think that William's corrupted soul didn't get his own body because there were still Memories in It.
Anyway, now i'm gonna play Paradise, so that i'll know more about Jakob.
real lantern
I think that the "making dinner out of the guests" is more simbolism, its like jakob is rejecting his family and trying to forget all the bad memories that he has from them.
ebon aspen
Nah, he really killed them and gave their meat to his relatives, old school revenge i would say
azure bay
Mr. Owl was the one who won. There was no reasons for revenge
Their death was required to know the future
in order to maintain the lake
I tend to think that every Owl's decision revolts around the well-being of the lake
that could probably translate to the well-being of the world
in case of the lake being horrifying if one doesn't take care of it
real lantern
Nah, he really killed them and gave their meat to his relatives, old school reve...
What do you mean "gave the meat to his parents" one of them he killed and the other is long dead
ebon aspen
Oh sorry, i always get confused bc here in brazil "parentes" means "relatives", gonna change the message lmao
azure bay
Oh sorry, i always get confused bc here in brazil "parentes" means "relatives", ...
lol my guess was right
almost
vivid bridge
yo is this supposed to be a cherry blossom tree?
prisma monolith
That's what I assume
vital forge
You ask the good questions
quick birch
Guys
bad feeling makes people corrupted.
So you don't have to die to become a corrupted soul😀 🔫
that's how Bob become a corrupted soul
and I will ask something
Who's kid is this????
azure bay
Who's kid is this????
There's a theory that this is a depiction of William. It requires an explanations
It all started with Case 23
quick birch
ok
azure bay
in the chapel there there were: a shell, a skull that looks a lot like Pheasant's, a jarred fetus that turns into a heart after drowning in ink
most of these objects come back in The Lady of The Lake play
prisma monolith
Where (or whom) did it come from?
quick birch
Hmm
azure bay
they share a dress, a music theme, a hat & a job
quick birch
the actress looks a lot like Ms. Pheasant
You mean the lady of the lake
azure bay
exactly
azure bay
I guess it's not her
just her projection
or smth
an illusion
because she's confirmed to be dead by then in TWD
quick birch
Or someone is cosplay
lol
Ok Im just kidding
but what about she dying later that ?
azure bay
but what about she dying later that ?
TWD tells otherwise
prisma monolith
Both the Fall part of Seasons and Theatre take place in 1971
prisma monolith
In the Rusty Lake Universe, some scenes we see may not have happened
quick birch
Yeah
prisma monolith
They could be referential, or even mtaphorical
azure bay
the Theatre game is one of the most unreal bunch. Because it's Dale just revisiting his memories that were altered by Mr. Owl
prisma monolith
So it's possible that this Laura's body on the stage is a reference to the fact that she passed away a while ago
azure bay
what about this?
may I continue explaining these weird objects?
quick birch
if you like to, then explain
azure bay
I thought you were interested in them
quick birch
exactly
prisma monolith
Because she was presented as an actress in Hotel, right?
azure bay
Because she was presented as an actress in Hotel, right?
they share dress & music theme
quick birch
the actress is very likely to be Ms. Pheasant herself
Her dress is the same
so yeah
Actress=Ms. Peasant
azure bay
exactly
& all these objects are "the substance of her past lifes"
it means that they may depict her biography in a way
the hat is the easiest one
quick birch
Wait... What if that actress is ms. peasants past?
prisma monolith
Backwards
azure bay
Wait... What if that actress is ms. peasants past?
the hat represents it
then we have a shell, a fetus & a heart
prisma monolith
Hotel takes place in the late 1800's.
azure bay
fetus could mean that she had a baby once
quick birch
Theatre takes place in year 1971
azure bay
the fact that this very fetus drowns into darkness & leaves the heart (in case 23) could meant that the child could be William because he was the one to become corrupted & leave his heart as a sacrifice
prisma monolith
There's also Elizabeth Eilander (Paradise), who is theorized to be a past counterpart of Ms. Pheasant
azure bay
There's also Elizabeth Eilander (Paradise), who is theorized to be a past counte...
& she is the most likely candidate to be the mother
because the dates match
in 1796 she looked fertile already
& William's brother Aldous was born in 1799
azure bay
didn't Willam gave that weird drink to Aldous?
you are wrong. The drink was the elixir that kills one person & gives a prolonged life to another
Aldous was the one to win here
quick birch
Oh
prisma monolith
Elizabeth has a similar bodytype to Rose Vanderboom, who was first shown with that bodytype at 15
azure bay
Elizabeth has a similar bodytype to Rose Vanderboom, who was first shown with th...
it could be explained by the same artist using the same artstyle
quick birch
Elizabeth has a similar bodytype to Rose Vanderboom, who was first shown with th...
their hair color is also the same
prisma monolith
So it would make sense to think that in the late 1700's that Elizabeth could have relations at least a bit after Paradise, before age of consent laws were enacted
azure bay
np
prisma monolith
So from what I'm reading, Elizabeth married a Vanderboom and gave birth to at least Aldous and William?
azure bay
So from what I'm reading, Elizabeth married a Vanderboom and gave birth to at le...
that's what the theory sais. But there's a problem
we need to remember that one can't just become enlightened. A ritual is required. Like the one that took place in the Paradise ending.
prisma monolith
If Aldous isn't the father to James (it isn't exactly clear who gave the seed to him)
azure bay
all the other times we've witnessed enlightenment it took moments to happen
azure bay
If Aldous isn't the father to James (it isn't exactly clear who gave the seed to...
Aldous could give the seed no matter if he was the father
prisma monolith
In Roots, it's said in the narration that "upon his uncle's death, James inherited a seed to start the family tree"
azure bay
it meant that the father was already believed to be dead
prisma monolith
And from the secret ending, it shows both the Vanderboom brothers
And an uncle is typically a brother to a father or mother
azure bay
there could be the 3rd sibling that already died by the time
otherwise we have to complicate the relations between James & Aldous
prisma monolith
If Aldous was born in 1799, he would be 61 by the time James planted the seed
azure bay
what's your message?
prisma monolith
Well, we don't have a birth year for James to verify, but what if Aldous is James' father? We don't know or have any context to other elder Vanderboom siblings, and older men can have children easier than older women
But we do know that Aldous had a wife stashed away in the mill
azure bay
I'm pretty sure that Aldous was also declared dead. He could be alongside his brother or alternatively he could fake some documents in order to make his alter ego die even earlier.
Either way If Aldous is James' father than we have to explain why didn't his son questioned his unexpected death. But he's less likely to question death of another uncle that he wasn't probably even familiar with.
however, some don't like to introduce a character with no evidence of its existence (e.g. another dead sibling)
prisma monolith
They probably kept the whole "elixir" thing under wraps, and when William died, maybe James presumed he had a heart attack or something
azure bay
But Aldous was officially dead as well
He had to fake his death in order to continue his life as Mr. Crow
prisma monolith
Where's the evidence?
azure bay
James was the only heir
If there was a living brother he would take the house
but the plan was different
brothers needed James to arrive
prisma monolith
Unless there was a written will if something went "wrong"
azure bay
Unless there was a written will if something went "wrong"
either way the disappearance of Aldous would be much more suspicious for James if they were close
There are still mentions of Aldous
the portraits
prisma monolith
Why else would they be so gun-ho about drinking an elixir that would have severe effects if they didn't have counter-measures?
azure bay
the alchemist journal
azure bay
Why else would they be so gun-ho about drinking an elixir that would have severe...
I think James WAS the counter measure
prisma monolith
pretty much
azure bay
But in order to make him come they probably needed to keep him ignorant
an unexpected death of the father would be harmful for the plan
prisma monolith
Also, William could've said "If I die after drinking this, dear brother, may you take the seed and deliver it to James, so that they can eventually create a new vessel for me?"
azure bay
Also, William could've said "If I die after drinking this, dear brother, may you...
I assume, they both knew that one of them would die. So they prepared the ritual beforehand
prisma monolith
If Aldous and James weren't particularly close, maybe that could've resulted in James not being there for Mary giving birth to the triplets?
azure bay
They don't need to be close. I think they need to be very distant so James wouldn't notice Aldous' death & come with no questions
They may be distant no matter how they are related
It could be either an unfamiliar uncle or a bad father
IMO the former is more likely
prisma monolith
With the way Albert turned out, anyone can be a bad parent in the Rusty Lake Universe lol
azure bay
James could be a bad father himself just because he was a dead father
prisma monolith
He wasn't a bad father, just a dumb person in general. He made the dog immortal but then drank it? Boy didn't do basic math
azure bay
He wasn't a bad father, just a dumb person in general. He made the dog immortal ...
I think the elixir situation was a different one.
prisma monolith
He knew of the elixir, so he should've known of the success/failure rate
azure bay
What James did, he tested first on an animal, as all the scientists should do. And as the dog was alive he probably thought that the drink was safe to consume.
I'm pretty sure that he didn't see the warning about side effects. It could be hanged on the wall just for the player's eyes.
prisma monolith
So canonically, all of the characters only face the player?
azure bay
excuse me?
prisma monolith
We don't really see the backs of their heads too often
azure bay
I think it's just the style of RL narration. We as players get all the info by very limited means: we either get a pantomime or a monologue or some notes of many different kinds
another good example is "The Lying Game" chapter
there was an instruction to look outside that wouldn't make any sense if there was no player to read it
prisma monolith
btw, that question was sarcastic
I didn't really mean they only faced one direction
azure bay
Many asked me this question before with no sarcasm)))
I still want to remind that introducing a character with no evidence of his existance is also bad
So we have 2 option & it's debatable which of them overcomplicates the story the least
Objectively, it's not even important as it doesn't affect the story that much
tropic reef
I'm playing through everything again in a proper order. I just finished the cave. What is the purpose behind the file in the sub? The it seems like a random collection of things - picture of young Laura, a business card, broken timepiece, something with presumably an anagram
Just seems random for the amount of work that one took
vast summit
i think most people assume it’s secret codes or a teaser for an upcoming game
tropic reef
That's kind of what I thought but I figured cave released before many of the newer games? Unless this is new to the collection
Also, I'm still not quite certain how Laura died. Is it a murder or a suicide?
From what I get, Owl killed her so he can use her memories to create white cubes, but it went wrong and created a corrupted soul?
vast summit
it’s new from the collection i think, there’s a bunch of achievement easter eggs
tropic reef
Yeah things that tie back and forth to other achievements in other games
Like the code for the TV in Lake or the GnT recipe
nocturne yarrow
The original contents of that envelope was a link to a merch giveaway, which obviously wouldn’t be valid by the point of the collection’s release, and as such they replaced it with teasers
royal notch
From what I get, Owl killed her so he can use her memories to create white cubes...
No, if you played the cave you see the black memory: Laura commits suicide.
I don't know if the enlighteneds are "good or bad people", but i think they kill only if necessary.
And because of that i would introduce a theory.
royal notch
It's how i call Mr Owl ecc.
tropic reef
Oh where she writes on the wall "there will be blood?"
tropic reef
It's how i call Mr Owl ecc.
ah
real lantern
About the cave, we see that laura gives the black and white cube, that with the blue cube forms the golden cube... what the fuck does dale have that makes him special, why is he a part of the equation?
royal notch
Oh where she writes on the wall "there will be blood?"
Yeah!
tropic reef
The way I see it, Owl and Crow et al are really just harvesting the memories from the lake so they can prolong their existence, and they need sacrifices to feed the lake so they can extract memories. As they say, the memories open up alternate realities where they can control what they want- like Dale in Birthday
Laura is special because she is William reincarnated, and Dale we'll find out probably eventually maybe
And so their memories are particularly powerful
But I'm probably ENTIRELY wrong
covert wyvern
I personally thing their memories are just that, memories
but the only reason they're the ones we see
is because Laura and Dale are relevant for the story
tropic reef
Well there has to be a reason Owl and Crow want to harvest the cubes, aka memories. Look at the Mill, they want the white cubes but end up harvesting black and corrupting the souls
or maybe even trying to get Blue Cubes and change the past
let alone whatever the heck a golden cube does
royal notch
About the cave, we see that laura gives the black and white cube, that with the ...
Maybe because Dale had had big changes in his life just because of an enlightened: that could be a big problem for the secrecy of the society, but also a great occasion for a successor for Mr Owl.
tropic reef
I still have to replay paradise, paradox, white room, and samsara, so I don't entirely recall why Owl needs a replacement
royal notch
I played the collection 4 times, and i still haven't figured It out.
nocturne yarrow
I still have to replay paradise, paradox, white room, and samsara, so I don't en...
It's a little vague, but from what he says in Paradox, it seems like he has a limited lifespan even with the elixir. I suspect we'll learn more about it in future games, but maybe the lake has a kind of artificial limitation on how long people can avoid death using the elixir.
tropic reef
Isn't there a part in Paradise where you find out that the cubes/memories are part of the elixir? So maybe Aldous and Jakob are trying to improve upon previous attempts at the elixir in order to give them truly unlimited life
azure bay
Laura has a little more of importance because her memories contain William's elixir formula. Something pretty similar took place in Paradise. Jacob also consumed the elixir via memories of the formula
But the main role is prepared for Dale
At least Mr. Owl would probably prefer him
quick birch
yes
I put theese to for my theories
so
remember when I told about that fisherman
and someone said thats a random fisherman lol
Wait
what if this is the fisherman's place?
ebon aspen
james prolly died years bf the cave happens, so i think is difficul
ebon aspen
tbh this guys looks like dale, but im sure its not him tho
ebon aspen
What about my 2nd guess?
about the cabin?
quick birch
Yeah that
quick birch
tbh this guys looks like dale, but im sure its not him tho
I dont think so
Nobody would let Dale go to fishing peacefully (in the rusty lake)😆
ebon aspen
yeah, that time he was at the bottom of the lake
quick birch
:/
quick birch
Oh
covert wyvern
maybe RL does in fact rent out cabins for people looking for a break
quick birch
Yes
covert wyvern
¯_(ツ)_/¯
the fishing part isn't immediately relevant to the story
but maybe now it is
or, rather, in this case.
ebon aspen
well, the fisherman knew a code for a machine of the submarine
quick birch
You may be right but he doesn't look like Dale much
ebon aspen
99% sure it was just for puzzle sake, but anyway
covert wyvern
this could be a case where that's just game mechanic
not deeplore
I think that distinction is important to make lmao
maybe he was asked by crow or even owl to signal something
listen you can fish in our lake but you gotta signal this when you see a periscope pop out of the water okay
ebon aspen
yeah, sometimes we start freaking out so much with the theories and begin to consider the smallest details
ebon aspen
maybe he was asked by crow or even owl to signal something
"look buddy, i will send some fishes to you, but i need a favor in return"
ebon aspen
so what should we talk about?
the thing that is startling more is the upcoming game
but tbh i think is better to discuss it just when the game is out
quick birch
You mean The Past within?
ebon aspen
yep
quick birch
Oh I just remembered
I was playing too much rusty lake
So It went in my dream at night
it was about The Past within
Laura was breaking an aquarium with a hammer
covert wyvern
do note your dreams have nothing to do with a theories.
covert wyvern
well the game isn't out yet and we can't exactly speculate on things that don't exist yet.
quick birch
We can think?
It was just a little part
And I think its about the vanderboom family
covert wyvern
that much is obvious, agreed.
fringe reef
how come dale turns into mr deer when mr owl have mr deer jailed in hotel?
nvm i just found out all souls in hotel broke free
buoyant tree
yeah theres a secret code for birthday once you finish hotel
royal notch
Is there anyone who would talk about the White Door? I haven't figured anything out.
azure bay
I could
royal notch
Oh, hello again! 🤚
azure bay
hi
royal notch
So, the first problem: how can a shot exctracting Memories?
azure bay
Theatre shown us that the shot just opened the head & someone else performed memory extraction. In Theatre it was Dale but, as it were all his own memories altered by Mr. Owl, in TWD Bob's memories could be extracted by someone else or by no one at all.
In fact, the brain damage itself could lead to his amnesia (if the shot wasn't an illusion)
royal notch
So, you think that the shot didn't destroyed the memories, but only prevented recalling them?
azure bay
yes, in one way or another
royal notch
OK, so... How can Bob remember something every night?
azure bay
if the memories were extracted, the machine could put them back.
If it was just a regular amnesia, the machine could restore the neuron connections making the memories accessible again
royal notch
Yeah, that definitely make sense! Also, that explain lots of things!
azure bay
anything else you'd like to know?
royal notch
No, wait, there's one temporal dyscrepancy.
Lee has been autorized to connect the machine with Bob starting from the second night, so how can remenber the break-down?
azure bay
if so, someone else could be in charge back then
but I remember a pretty early date being somewhere there. Long before Bob's admission
Like Bob was planned to be there in advance
royal notch
Yeah, that was obvious. When he call the White Door, Jakob says to wait for the car!!!!😂
azure bay
I don't understand for what reason they needed Bob & his memories
royal notch
I don't think they needed his memories, you have convinced me first. According to my theory (when someone lose all the memories, his corrupted soul start to fight for the body), Mr Owl only want to be sure that Bob will defeat his own corrupted soul, since they're so dangerous.
azure bay
His memories about Laura were important all by themselves. Bob becomes useless with no Laura in there
royal notch
Those memories are the most important since Mr Owl want to PUT THEM BACK, as you said. Bob would become useless meaning that he wouldn't be Bob anymore.
azure bay
Why would he prohibit Sarah erasing Laura from his memories them if it wouldn't do any damage?
royal notch
Maybe, Mr Owl thinked that the principal reason of Bob's corruption was the love for her. Remember, he tried to commits suicide principally because of her: he unfolded the foto. But Sarah, Who think that the real problem Is also Laura, does a better thing: removing Laura, Bob wouldn't have know her, and then he wouldn't have any reason to die.
azure bay
I see another way around it
royal notch
Tell me.
azure bay
For some reason, Mr. Owl required Bob's memories of Laura. He would probably keep him in the institute forever but Sarah wants to help everyone escape
not just Bob
but every other patient
as seen in The Basement ending
royal notch
❓
azure bay
there was an ARG last year
the cubes were hidden all across the world & players had to find their local cubes
royal notch
❓ ❓ ❓ ❓ ❓
azure bay
each cube belonged to a patient from the country it was hidden in
& as a cube was discovered a secret code was as well
entering that code inside a secret level would free the respective patient
royal notch
covert wyvern
(crafter is serious, you can read all about our progress in the ARG channels which are still archived)
azure bay
I've conserved a google doc link with all the progress documented
royal notch
I can feel the start of a headache, give me a moment.
royal notch
Can we talk about that in #the-white-door ?
royal notch
@azure bay
azure bay
what exactly is confusing?
royal notch
I'm sorry ti bother you, if you want we can continue another time. 😅
azure bay
I'm glad to continue
royal notch
Well, the principal question: why those poor people were Locked there?
azure bay
Maybe they have real mental issues
at least their documents state so
there could be something else
memory or lake related
but for now it's a mystery
royal notch
Maybe they have real mental issues
If so, why Sarah would have freed everyone? She is a nurse, so She must know that.
Unless...
azure bay
Sarah is the indication that there could be more reasons than just mental issues
she seems to be a rebel here
azure bay
maybe because keeping people imprisoned is unethical
royal notch
Ehm... That's a good point. 
azure bay
once again, their containment procedures could be harsher than we think
or their mental health was actually ok
& TWD was lying about their state
I have a theory related to Bob
as always, not sure if it's true tho
royal notch
I also have one, but you First.
azure bay
initially I thought that Sarah's ending was uncanon or at least taking place in the alternate timeline
I still kinda do but I also consider the other possibility
These 2 endings could share the timeline
Bob's day 7 looks a lot like a dream
it directly continues the 6th one
it features a vision of the 7th one
the literal return of the colors could seem absurd because Sarah's level is still black & white
then some minor details
on the day 7 the patient is stated to be dreaming
it could be interpreted in a way that Bob is the one who's dreaming & not his CS
on Sarah's level the patient's state is "???"
like it either is not applicable to the CS or doesn't talk about it at all
so all the well being of Bob could be just another illusion
& Sarah is the one to break it
but honestly, Bob learning Laura's long forgotten lesson about the past not being dead seems to be enough to end his depression
just saying
btw
I was telling that Sarah's ending was uncanon
if they indeed split the timeline in 2 then Sarah's ending is more likely to be canon as it features Bob's book that we've seen in Paradox
that's all I have in mind
covert wyvern
I live under the assumption that the paradox chapters take place depending on what happens to bob in the timeline, considering the book ;p
but i have yet to draw it all properly out, I've said before it'd do it but who knows at this point lmao
azure bay
I rather tend to think that all the chapters take place in a single timeline but go one after another, intersect at some point & create the paradox
royal notch
Me too.
royal notch
if they indeed split the timeline in 2 then Sarah's ending is more likely to be ...
But also, nothing can prevent Bob from write the book, after the normal ending.
azure bay
But also, nothing can prevent Bob from write the book, after the normal ending.
I don't know why would they place it there at all if it's not that important
royal notch
Also that it's true.
digital walrus
but i have yet to draw it all properly out, I've said before it'd do it but who ...
we could do a doc. with all the theories and everything we know so it would be easier to organise everything
covert wyvern
that'd just be chaos.
azure bay
we could do a doc. with all the theories and everything we know so it would be e...
It would require a ton of effort to organize everything right
digital walrus
It would require a ton of effort to organize everything right
yeah, but im planning to do something like this for a while so, if you guys want i start the doc and yall just put your theories and complete with the things i didnt put
covert wyvern
you can always just make your own google doc
azure bay
@royal notch you told you had TWD theory of your own
royal notch
Yeah, but it Is related to the mistery of the basement.
royal notch
I think the Institute could have been created just to "protect the world": as i've explained many times, maybe when someone lose his memories he has the risk to being controlled by the corrupted soul. Mr Owl perfectly knows know the danger, but he has no reason to kill innocent people. Then, he could had had the idea of the White Door, calling numerous people to make the staff. But only 5 of them are the most important, as also the site says. Maybe only these 5 are enlighteneds that we still haven't seen, since they know the "cubizzation" of the memories. Maybe the Institute host people who have had Memory problem for a reason or another, just like Bob, but those 10 (or 9? I don't Remember) prisoners could have some more serious problems that prevent to put back their own memories in their head (some of them are holding a cube, in the final)! Since Mr Owl can't be sure they would defeat their corrupted souls, he could have decided to lock them, for protect the rest of the population. But then Sarah, WHO IS ONLY A NURSE, could have discovered Hoorn's password just like we did for the ARG, she discovered the basement and, IMPULSIVELY, freed everyone, ignoring the real danger. That would explain why the Institute even create a locator, to find and lock them again.
Maybe 2 of the 5 doctors are the human form of Mr Toad and Mr Bat.
azure bay
I want to address your assumption of CS willing to take the control over bodies. On the contrary, according to samsara, CS are not willing to exist at all because their existence is too painful. William, Laura, maybe Mr. Rabbit are all willing to change their form as fast as possible.
Samsara also tells that CS is not a separate being
it's the soul that was broken for some reason
royal notch
I also Say that.
azure bay
so there wouldn't exist a separate consciousnesses inside you
royal notch
I'm not saying that it's a separated consciousness, i'm saying that this Is the worst part of your consciousness, that can't be controlled.
Ours primitive, animal insticts, if you want.
azure bay
ok
royal notch
I mean, how many times we could have wished to kill someone we hate? But obviousoly we are capable to control ourselves.
azure bay
fair enough
the thing is that people falling into the abyss doesn't seem to be that usual
it's more like an exception
otherwise we would be seeing many more of them everywhere
in order to fall so far you should be pushed over by something exceptional
real lantern
Maybe the white door was just a medical grouo that treats people with colourblindness.... im kidding of course
royal notch
in order to fall so far you should be pushed over by something exceptional
All Memory losing, in fact!
azure bay
All Memory losing, in fact!
I'm afraid no
extracting bright memories is ok
extracting painful memories wisely is usually ok
royal notch
I said all, not White or black. And also, i have a different vision of the letter in the mill.
I think Mr Owl Just wanted to alert Mr Crow of what was inevitabily going ti happen.
azure bay
I think Mr Owl Just wanted to alert Mr Crow of what was inevitabily going ti hap...
what is "wise" then?
what is "unwise"?
royal notch
I think the Memory extraction Is not a process so simple, like a clic. Mr Crow could have been wronged something during the extraction, and maybe, i don't know, the memory wuold have been destroyed. But that didn't happen.
azure bay
If there was a risk of losing memories it would probably be mentioned
If the unwise use of the machine wouldn't lead to the corruption, it wouldn't have been mentioned in the same sentence
royal notch
I'm gonna send a screenshot of the letter, It Will be more easy, i don't remenber It all.
azure bay
and "extracting bad memories COULD cause the corruption..."
not "will"
so there's uncertainty
What's more, memories are part of a soul. No matter whether it is corrupted or not. It was shown in many games. Some even think that corrupted souls ARE memories
We've seen multiple times CS either losing their cubes or hiding inside them
real lantern
Are you sure that was always what the note read?
azure bay
excuse me?
real lantern
For some reason i dont remember the "the lake not only needs the right water level"
real lantern
Guess im just forgetting then lmao
azure bay
the official youtube walkthrough still features the browser edition
e.g. the original one
you can always check it out
talking about William
the CS has left that body
with the memories
I mean that the soul was still conserving at least some of them
Mr. Crow referring to it as a brother means that CS is actually him & having his identity
& these are memories that give us our identities
what's more, Laura is presented to still possess somewhere deep in her mind the memories of William's formula of the elixir
royal notch
and "extracting bad memories COULD cause the corruption..."
- I can read this like "as you know, the memory extraction can cause the corruption of the body", but not always: if the person Is still alive, he has the possibility to repress them. But Laura Is dead, and Mr Crow perfectly knows that, and for this it could be useless to write it. Mr Crow knows what to do 😉 , and Mr Owl wants only the safety of his friend. ("Take care, Aldous!".).
azure bay
he was definitely speaking about a dead body
royal notch
He didn't write "dead", since It was obvious.
azure bay
"I will send you the BODY..."
"... could cause the corruption of the BODY"
even not "A(n uncertain) body", as the article is defined
royal notch
We're saying the same thing. But from two point of view.
azure bay
I mean that both the times he mentions the body it's the same body, as English grammar says
royal notch
This is your point of view. My point of view Is that the First "body" Is Laura, and the second Is in general. It's a different way to read It.
We can't Say Who Is wrong.
Since both makes sense.
azure bay
We can't Say Who Is wrong.
the objective language rules say that you are wrong. If it was in general then an undefined article would be used. But it's "il corpo" & not "un corpo"
royal notch
You know italian?
azure bay
sorry no, I just know that Italian works just like other roman laguages
at least with articles
royal notch
OK, but i can also says "la corruzione del corpo" talking about everyone's body, and so in general.
Since everyone has a body.
azure bay
in English it would be "of a body"
azure bay
if you want to get down to language you'd have to pull up the dutch letter
could you?
covert wyvern
not at this moment.
royal notch
in English it would be "of a body"
But maybe It would be referring to "a body in particular", in this way.
Also, it's written "corruption" without "the"! It's another (Little) point to say that maybe Mr Owl was talking in general.
covert wyvern
just for clarification, if there's anything hidden in the way some words are translated the best language to look at would be dutch, because that's what the devs speak
¯_(ツ)_/¯
royal notch
Right, but i haven't a Dutch dictionary at home 😄
royal notch
NoFlavorrrrrrr...
covert wyvern
Well, I'm dutch too 😉
covert wyvern
and normally it'd gladly pull up the dutch translation right now
but im preoccupied and can;t
sorry about that!
royal notch
😢
real lantern
R/translators is normaly pretty quick
azure bay
We don't need a translation. We need the original text
real lantern
Thing is, you dont seem to be able to speak dutch... so we would need it translated
azure bay
touche
covert wyvern
but I speak dutch
im right here ;p
I just cant pull up the letters dutch text right now
real lantern
Yes, but you cant translate it rn you said
covert wyvern
true!
real lantern
Ah, gotcha
royal notch
But anyway, NoFlavor Is a person of the real Rusty Lake team, right?
azure bay
the community manager
covert wyvern
yes but I can tell you she wont be giving you any answers you're looking for 
royal notch
azure bay
no RL staff would tell us anything directly
in best case scenario they will throw at us some concept art or some minor facts
covert wyvern
While I can recc. Amsterdam as a holiday destination, I wouldn't during a pandemic 😉
azure bay
@royal notch while we're waiting for our Dutch expert, I want to tell ya another thing
royal notch
I'm still here.
azure bay
usually, over-complicated assumptions don't turn out to be true. Creating significant differences in rules concerning dead bodies & living ones is quite an over-complication. Especially if Mr. Owl doesn't make a distinction because why would he tell about being careful with a living body if he sends a dead one?
royal notch
But in fact, following your theory, it's useful read this letter in this way. But for mine, this complication Is necessary. And this complication, anyway, don't change the story in a huge way, it's Just a particular.
real lantern
So yeah, i opened the game in dutch, and the letter is still written in english
royal notch
😂
azure bay
So yeah, i opened the game in dutch, and the letter is still written in english
there are subtitles
real lantern
Yeah, gimme a sec
azure bay
But in fact, following your theory, it's useful read this letter in this way. Bu...
yeah that's how it works. But the main message was about the letter not making sense if assuming your theory being right
covert wyvern
if you paraphrase the subtitles and post em here I'll have a look
ebon aspen
Imho the devs wouldnt approve a translation that dont fit on lore or smth, so yeah i think this is going way farer than it needs too XD
But its funny so continue pls
covert wyvern
likely. I also am of the opinion that "a body" or "the body" doesn't change much in the scheme of things
but o well
royal notch
yeah that's how it works. But the main message was about the letter not making s...
Why not? If my theory Is right, the letter has still sense, just reading this in a different way. I mean, only the devs know what they wanted to write, but they'll never talk to us.😢
azure bay
Imho the devs wouldnt approve a translation that dont fit on lore or smth, so ye...
as far as I know, they do the English translation on their own. Sure they are good but the professional is less likely to make mistakes
ebon aspen
as far as I know, they do the English translation on their own. Sure they are go...
Again, i dont think they would approve smth that could make a plot hole, but this thing is so small that wouldnt make difference
royal notch
as far as I know, they do the English translation on their own. Sure they are go...
Don't they collaborate whit people who speak their own language? In the credits of both Paradox had the White Door i saw the same people on the translations.
ebon aspen
If it was a important thing they would put effort to dont make mistakes
ebon aspen
Don't they collaborate whit people who speak their own language? In the credits ...
Yeah but english is pretty known
azure bay
Why not? If my theory Is right, the letter has still sense, just reading this in...
If the focus of the situation is on Laura's dead body there's just no need to warn about a possible corruption of living bodies
azure bay
I highly doubt its bodies that corrupt anyway
apparently it's both
ebon aspen
They could easily translate it on their own, its not like portuguese or japanese
real lantern
Vergessen sie nicht: der see muss nitch nur den richtigen wasserstand haben, sondern auch frische erinnerungen bekommen, ich werde ihnen den körper der jungen fraun im laufe des monats schicken. Verweden sie die maschine mit bedacht. Die entnahme der negativen erinnerungen könte den körper beschädigen.
Hochachtungsvoll, mr.owl
covert wyvern
O no
real lantern
This was very painfull
real lantern
A
covert wyvern
Dutch is called "Nederlands" in the settings im pretty sure
real lantern
I give up
azure bay
Don't they collaborate whit people who speak their own language? In the credits ...
what's more, as far as I know, in Netherlands the level of teaching English is pretty high
ebon aspen
Damy is screaming dutch noises now
covert wyvern
no this happens a lot.
covert wyvern
what's more, as far as I know, in Netherlands the level of teaching English is p...
Can confirm.
royal notch
This was very painfull
"Carefully, hes a Hero!"
real lantern
Niveau nodig?
real lantern
Do any of these words ring a bell? Lmao
covert wyvern
can you just screenshot an image of the language selection?
ill point it out
real lantern
Hoogachtend, mr.owl
covert wyvern
that's probably it.
real lantern
I selected the one that sais "nederlands"
covert wyvern
ah ye you're good then
real lantern
Ok, just give me a few minutes and a few beers
covert wyvern
cheers
real lantern
Beste mr crow,
onthoud goed, het meer heeft niet alleen het juiste water niveau nodig, maar ook nieuwe herinneringen. ik zal je later deze maand het lichaam van de jonge vrouw toezenden. Gebruik de machine op de juiste wijze, door het extraheren van de slechte herinneringen zou het lichaam verdorven kunnen raken.
Hoogachtend, mr owl
Please lord above
covert wyvern
"het lichaam van de jonge vrouw" and "het lichaam" both refer to JUST Laura
"the body of the young woman" and "the body"
real lantern
Dutch lessons with damy
covert wyvern
aye
real lantern
We now know that lichaam is body... maybe
covert wyvern
yes! that would be the translation
real lantern
Anyway, so, the thic and thin of it is, in the letter owl is referring to the human's body
covert wyvern
Yes. Laura's.
azure bay
so would it be written in a different way I it were about bodies in general?
covert wyvern
yes
in dutch we would simply refer to "a body"
as "een lichaam"
the difference is in "het"
azure bay
from the grammatical point of view, are these just articles?
covert wyvern
yes.
but I think there's no merit in dwelling on the letter anymore, lmao. it's pretty clear that the letter is referecing Just Laura's body in this case
I assume, of course, the lake is fine with other bodies
but I assume Laura's needs extra care for
~obvious reasons
azure bay
the subject was whether Mr. Owl was referring specifically to Laura because otherwise it wouldn't contradict Ciaosonome's theory of memory extraction being a guarantee of corruption. At least of a lifeless corpse.
covert wyvern
yes, Mr. Owl, in this case is in fact specifically referring to Laura.
azure bay
thx for your help
covert wyvern
np!
royal notch
OK, thanks Damy!
So, It seems that this letter destroyed my nights of mindblowing... 🥲 🔫
azure bay
my condolences.
In cases like this I can recommend you 2 things:
- you may learn to value the truth higher than your conclusions
- you may learn to value the process of mindblowing itself higher than the conclusions it leads to
My personal cure is always considering multiple versions
if possible ofc
royal notch
Anyway, you didn't agreed to my theory, but you still haven't told me what you think about corrupted souls.
azure bay
I see CS being actually connected to their memories
especially the painful ones
you may control a CS if you have its cubes
the reason of their creation is very likely to be a painful experience
it also depends on a person
if a person is really weak & the moment is really bad the probability of corruption is pretty high
the bad moment could be caused by depression
we have 2 cases of Bob going like this
the bad moment may be a death of the person
burning is very painful, for example
so Caroline was corrupted
William could go corrupted all because of his loss
he seems to bring the most of effort into the elixir creation
but he didn't get enlightened
The Guests could probably go corrupted not only because of their death but also in the result of others eating them
And an unwise memory extraction may be painful in a way that the person's soul (no matter if the body is dead or alive) relives these memories
& all the negativity of black cubes took in one bite could be too much
royal notch
OK, so you are linking every corrupted soul to his own sadness or problem. But there's one of them that, i think, has not been particularly sad (or at least, we still don't know).
azure bay
Dale?
royal notch
No, Dale had had a mass omicide for his nineth Birthday, poor guy.
I'm talking about Mr Crow.
azure bay
I'm not sure yet about Mr. Crow
the 1st his appearance in Roots looks a lot like a CS: a black silhouette with white eyes & breaking glass with a certain sound
Here I'm not sure if he's really corrupted because RL use these silhouettes not just for CS but also just to scare
We've seen a ton of terrifying images during Leonard's flashbacks
they all looked like CS
but I doubt most of them actually were
Albert was alive
Crow was also alive
the same style was used in The Cave as a clue to the extract creation
both Crow & the dog looked in that way
Now the other appearance
Albert was seeing a bird-like CS
but for now I'm not sure if it's Mr. Crow
and even if all the appearances are indeed a corrupted soul of Mr. Crow I think that it may come from the future
just like Mr. Rabbit's soul can be seen before his death
there's also a version that the soul Albert was seeing was a manifestation of his madness
royal notch
When did Albert see a corrupted soul?
azure bay
"The Masks" & "The Lying Game"
royal notch
We have no proof that Albert can see Mr Crow's corrupted soul.
We play as William's corrupted soul, and we can see other ones.
azure bay
We have no proof that Albert can see Mr Crow's corrupted soul.
(IF that's Mr. Crow's cs)
azure bay
We play as William's corrupted soul, and we can see other ones.
this topic is pretty complicated. For most of the cases we don't know which actions belong to William & which ones to the other family members.
It's all caused by the form of these games. Every event we see is triggered by the player tapping on the screen, as otherwise it'd be just a low budget cartoon, but not every tap needs to belong to the protagonist.
but yeah
I just assume that it was Albert who's seen the "crow" CS & who's directly accepted the skull from it
royal notch
Well, i also think that William's corrupted soul didn't do EVERYTHING we play in the game. Imagine James sitting in his new house and Say: -Oh, how i Wish the fireplace lightened... Dear uncle, would you mind...?-. 😄
azure bay
the funny thing is that's I'm pretty sure that James didn't find out about William's body :з
in the very same chapter
royal notch
Right, like he discovered It the next morning. - What the...-. 😂
azure bay
or the CS has got rid of it before the morning
azure bay
I don't think, why he should have done that?
so James wouldn't be suspicious?
royal notch
But for avoid making James suspicious, he should have get rid of almost half house! There is a full bookshelf about their progress with the elixir, and in fact he didn't had so much difficulty.
azure bay
the only think that could scare James away was the body
everything else has evoked curiosity
royal notch
You're right.
royal notch
But anyway...
Talking about Roots, i remembered a particular that i didn't understand: in the level of the cemetery, we see a grave for every Vanderboom, but then, whom Is the skeleton Rose wants to complete?
azure bay
not sure
oh
I've got an insight
There was the golden timepiece hidden inside the skull
the last time we've seen it was alongside William's body
so the cs could hide it there & bury the body
royal notch
I also thought that, but i wasnt sure.
azure bay
neither am I
just a guess
but the higher is amount of people making this guess the higher is the probability of them being right
but we're unable to compute it
covert wyvern
whose complaining to a mod?
rigid fog
My mean was complaining him to the moderator
covert wyvern
Im sorry I don't quite understand
rigid fog
I mean i wanna complain him to you that he is not replying.
vague imp
how dare ppl have lives
covert wyvern
not replying is not something you can complain about.
vague imp
maybe they are asleep?
rigid fog
Whats the perfect sequence to play all the games?
vague imp
real lantern
how dare ppl have lives
nocturne yarrow
I mean i wanna complain him to you that he is not replying.
I think you may have slightly misunderstood the rules
azure bay
O_o
sinful prawn
priest simp with the biggest theory of our lives
how dare we have lives, that is the question 🤔
covert wyvern
please do stick to the topic of the channel everyone, thanks.
somber anvil
@covert wyvern jsut pinging you before anything happens
annddd you're already here 🤣
vague imp
Thanks
astral frost
This happens when new games aren't released for a while ahahaha
vague imp
Not sure if this is where to ask ; I don't really understand how Dale is drawn into the whole situation? I know he was investigating Laura's murder and that Mr. Owl wanted him to become the next Lake dude, but did Mr. Owl just choose him randomly?
nocturne yarrow
I suspect it’s due to his previous connection with the lake through Mr. Rabbit’s murder of his parents. Due to that incident, he had a lingering connection to the lake- maybe that combined with some aspects of his character caused Mr. Owl to choose him.
astral frost
We could also say that Dale have a stronger connection with the Lake
Even if we don't know anything about it yet
Since "Vandermeer" means "from the Lake"
stable wigeon
What I am confused is how when Dale completes the crossword Crow says "your place is already taken," he says while reeling in Lauras dead body to extract her memories
To me this suggests that his "place" was initially just to have his memories extracted, but only after he got those cubes (idk if theyre his ot lauras) and appears at the chapel is his potential in caring for the lake is found
astral frost
Well
There something to say about Laura going to the Lake for the first time
We already know Laura went to the Lake because of her mental diseases
Rusty Lake is known as a quiet place of Mental Health and Fishing to the rest of the world
Laura very likely called Rusty Lake using the number on the newspaper which Dale found in Case 23 (chapter 1)
In fact it was part of a "contest": the winner would have won a trip to Rusty Lake
Laura won it first, and when Dale used that number Mr Crow answered that "his place was already taken"
(someone could also assume that Mr Owl crew intentionally sent to Laura that newspaper with that crosswords game to find the number. They wanted Laura, nobody else)
azure bay
Dale is believed to be a chosen one. He was also predicted to take a ride to the hotel long before he was even born. On the other hand, in Paradox he has a choice whether he takes his destiny or lets Laura live instead.
So I'm not so sure anymore if his story is predetermined
merry plume
ok bro is there a yt video that just runs through the whole plot
me and my friends need it we have like only a vague order to whatever the fuck we played through
ebon aspen
Reddit posts and wikia are better imo
covert wyvern
but there is a YT series out there. just look for "RL story explained" I guess.
Just realise no one has the facts.
somber anvil
would it be an idea to make a post compiling "theories thread" links (aka reddit, wikia and youtube links) and pin it for starters wondering what the theories are ?
covert wyvern
Eh I don't think so. No theory is "better" or "more complete"
I don't want to give some theories more exposure than others. That would be unfair
somber anvil
hum, makes sence
royal notch
So, i finally played every game, 🥳 and now i could have ascertained that no one game has any scenario after winter 1981. My bigger question from when i started playing the first time is still without answer: what will happen after? If Laura changed the past preventing his suicide, Dale would never opened the case 23 and nothing we have played in the cube Escape series (except Arles) has never happened! What do you think about?
covert wyvern
I agree with that notion
and have concluded that Laura has to die to be taken to the lake.
for the rest of the games to take place
but that's just what i think.
royal notch
Me too, but literally in the first game Laura will revive.
covert wyvern
ye but that's okay
royal notch
Maybe there will be a game in the future where Dale or other people will have to prevent Laura's corrupted soul changing.
azure bay
There are 3 options
- Laura cancels everything
- Laura lives in delusions & cancels nothing
- Laura succeeds but it happens in different timeline
I prefer the latter, as everyone gets a good ending.
Now u may start calling me naive
nocturne yarrow
Nah, I agree with the third option. It seems to be the most likely possibility, considering the nature of the blue cubes as we've seen them so far.
Something I find interesting is that the blue cubes haven't shown up in any of the paid games, at least as far as I can remember. Probably a coincidence, but it's still odd to me.
azure bay
some may say "we've never seen blue cubes operating outside memories"
nocturne yarrow
Aye, that's probably correct. However, we have seen the blue cubes themselves outside of memories, specifically in Cave.
azure bay
they'd rather prefer overcomplicating rules than changing their mind
nocturne yarrow
I just thought of something, it's somewhat irrelevant to what we're talking about but I find it an intriguing possibility nonetheless. I always found it odd that in the Mill, we do all this work to extract the black and white cubes from Laura and put them into the lake- but in the Cave, we have to take them right back out, along with the blue one. It just seemed pointless... unless that discrepancy is intentional, and Mr. Crow messed up the process.
My theory is that Mr. Crow & Owl weren't aware that Laura was able to split herself between timelines in Seasons. As such, they didn't know that they needed to extract the blue cube, representing her time-hopping, from her- they messed up the extraction in a fundamental way. That could be why Crow had to go back into the lake in Cave and get all three cubes back in order to finish the job properly.
azure bay
wait, are you telling that they had to extract from Laura 3 cubes instead of 2?
nocturne yarrow
That's the gist of my theory. They should've extracted the blue cube as well, but they didn't know it even existed.
As to how it ended up in the lake... I'm not sure. Perhaps it naturally ended up there from Laura being corrupted and wandering around the area.
azure bay
-
I've heard an idea of everything(body) being required to go through the lake in order to get enlightenment (Jacob, Caroline's memories, Dale etc.)
-
Alternatively, they could just preserve the cubes inside the lake
-
The blue cube is depicted not to originate in Laura in the book of The Cave. It goes from outside.
honestly, neither I think that The Mill & The Cave make a lot of sense
There was either a mistake or a deeper plan if we just ignore that there could be no William in devs' minds at the time
cause the only value the cubes have is the elixir formula hidden somewhere deep inside them
but in The Mill they seemed to be mundane - just another treat for the lake
vague imp
Doesn’t William appear in the cave in the cards
azure bay
he does but it happens 1-2 years after The Mill release
& definitely after the release of Roots
There is a possibility of The Cave just hastily writing William in the main story
vague imp
Why would William be in the mill though
Isn’t Laura William reincarnated?
Not like she had a choice since u know
stable wigeon
so you think the purpose of the crossword was just to get Laura and no one else?
Also u really think they knew of dale from the beginning? They didnt seem interested in him until the police station bit
Also is Laura presumably the only one of the vanderblooms that got reincarnated; I have been trying to ponder all of the characters in the "dale era" and what their importance is. I have yet to exactly understand Dale's importance; and Bob's importance is I guess purely due to his connection with Laura?
astral frost
It seems that Bob is important because of his memories about Laura
That's what Mr Owl says in TWD
He would be useless without those memories
stable wigeon
hmm i should play through that again
stable wigeon
one more thing is it for sure that laura's own soul killed herself? Cause extracting that memory from Bob in theatre seems to suggest otherwise...
or did he simply witness it
vague imp
Yeah it seemed like it was implied that Bob/Corrupted Soul Bob killed her
prisma monolith
Wasn't there a scene in The Cave where it showed that Laura did it herself?
vague imp
I think I know what scene you mean but I don’t remember where it was
prisma monolith
When the black cube was processed, in the sub
stable wigeon
well to get down to the nitty gritty
the memory of Laura's death from bob seemed to happen when he was facing her
and the act in the theater all clearly happened when she was inside the room possibly communicating with bob outside the window
however in seasons you clearly see the soul slit her throat from behind while she was looking outside the window
but following that logic it is interesting that in seasons you see Laura outside the window
not Bob
im so confused lol
and youre obv not bob in seasons cause you see yourself in the mirror get transformed from corrupted soul to laura herself
might have something to do with experiencing each other's memories but i dont think thats a thing im probably just overthinking it
upper drift
and youre obv not bob in seasons cause you see yourself in the mirror get transf...
You are Laura in seasons. The game tells you how she was driven to suicide, etc
It is quite certain she suffers from depression
For instance, Prozac pill is an anti-depressant.
(Seen in seasons)
But that depression was caused by the people of Rusty Lake (like Mr. Crow), I believe
stable wigeon
You are Laura in seasons. The game tells you how she was driven to suicide, etc
i thought "suicide" was by her corrupted soul from the future rather than direct
stable wigeon
and tbh i am skeptical of prozak being an actual antidepressant
stable wigeon
i meant her soul killed her
thats what you see in seasons
her corrupted soul slits her throat from behind
stable wigeon
i dont think she was hallucinating seeing herself as a corrupted soul in the mirror though
that seems to important i cant spell
upper drift
No that was legit Ig
But the part where sometimes when you go around the room, you see from the perspective of Laura that she sees a Corrupted soul outside (I also believe it turns to a CS with a knife by the third season), is her depression acting yo
Up*
stable wigeon
that makes sense i guess
i mean its the best explanation for seeing herself
out the window
but I would think you would see bob outside
upper drift
Eventually, I believe that Rusty Lake wanted black cubes specifically
stable wigeon
since his memory
upper drift
Eventually, I believe that Rusty Lake wanted black cubes specifically
That's one thing outside their realm of control
upper drift
No but the kind of cubes that are formed from ppl's memories depend on their last state of mind
O think
I*
upper drift
I need to play all of them again lmao, by the looks of it
stable wigeon
i mean i say that
upper drift
Specially roots, paradise
stable wigeon
its mostly conjecture
but the name of the game itself "cube escape"
like she needs to escape her memories
stable wigeon
or maybe even escape the cubes that are already absorbed into the lake. I cant think of where else the events of cube escape seasons takes place (as in the events of her reversing time in '81)
vague imp
her corrupted soul slits her throat from behind
How can you tell it’s her corrupted soul rather than Bob’s corrupted soul? they both look the same, it’s not like you can check whether it’s blond or has boobs
What does white or black mean? I thought white was happy and black was sad but not all seem to match. Also, what are blue cubes, changed memories?
stable wigeon
As I said I think it's her soul since looking at the act of the play, presuming you are seeing from the pov of bob (which is reasonable since you took this memory out of his brain), You are obviously not only facing Laura but also separated by a window
and the corrupted soul in the vision slits her throat from behind while she was looking out said window
but tbh I forgot about the other depiction of her death that someone mentioned was in cave and that could be more reliable than the vision in seasons
still though the act in theatre i doubt was bob killing her cause they were separated by a window
vague imp
I didn’t think bob was supposed to actually be there watching? Is that what it was supposed to be?
I mean he sees a lot of other stuff affiliated w the lake he probably never saw in his actual life.
stable wigeon
yeah idk but
just the mechanic of taking the memories from his brain
and using them in the "seasons" act
and the final black cube triggering her death in the act
idk just seems like they are his memories
and idk what u mean by sees other stuff affiliated with the lake
also how she puts her hand on the window as if she's communicating to whoever is watching
and makes sense why that black cube was locked in his brain as he says "I dont remember what happened"
like he blocked it out
vague imp
Yeah idk
upper drift
and using them in the "seasons" act
Don't forget seasons happened before The White door
azure bay
Why would William be in the mill though
He kinda is. However, are we sure that William was a thing in 2015? I guess, no, we are not.
azure bay
Yeah it seemed like it was implied that Bob/Corrupted Soul Bob killed her
If we assume that there is no time travel, Bob has an alibi in player's eyes.
If we assume that there is time travel then Dale is a suspect as well since Paradox.
azure bay
Wasn't there a scene in The Cave where it showed that Laura did it herself?
She still could be possessed by some force, I guess
azure bay
however in seasons you clearly see the soul slit her throat from behind *while s...
Bob is unlikely to witness her death
- they broke up several years before the event
- he's shown to know about the incident just from the newsflash
The other thing I'd like to underline is that the CS we play as & the one performing a murder could be 2 different creatures.
azure bay
i thought "suicide" was by her corrupted soul from the future rather than direct
Isn't that weird that the same CS that was earning its right for living as a human (both in Roots & Seasons) was willing to throw this life away?
stable wigeon
so then........
why was a black cube that turned out to be laura's death found in his brain
upper drift
Whose brain
stable wigeon
and whats up with "i dont remember what happened?" this is all BEFORE twd like u said
bobs
im primarily talking about CE theatre
upper drift
It could be that ppl in Rusty lake have some methods of telepathy
stable wigeon
this whole time
upper drift
im primarily talking about CE theatre
Ok I remember that very well, what about CE theatre?
stable wigeon
like i said
the black cube in bob's brain
put it in the frame
and witness lauras death
azure bay
agree
upper drift
The original one was the one in White Door where he goes to interrogate
The Theatre game was Dale's memories changing
The Lake is changing my memories
stable wigeon
youre saying the theatre itself didnt happen originally
upper drift
Not entirely
No
Part of it happened, except there was no Corrupted Soul, the Bartender was certainly not Aldous Vanderboom
(Aka mr crow)
stable wigeon
oh i see
upper drift
And he never shot himself
azure bay
Part of it happened, except there was no Corrupted Soul, the Bartender was certa...
why not?
Bob himself remembers all in that very way
stable wigeon
yea he shot himself both times lol
upper drift
why not?
Mr. Crow was strategically revisiting Dale's memories and it has smth to do with the Corrupted Soul, that's what my instincts say
If you remember
In Bday, there was the globe scene
Where it is shown that the Corrupted souls of Hotel are escaping
There's a good chance Mr Owl is also playing a double game and asking Crow to collect those Corrupted souls
Double agenda*
And obviously to also see Dale evolve into what he (Owl) wants him to become
azure bay
Mr. Crow was strategically revisiting Dale's memories and it has smth to do with...
Mr. Owl was interested in Bob's memories even before Theatre. Plus, the theater itself is named after Rusty Lake. So some of the events seen there might be true
upper drift
Mr. Owl was interested in Bob's memories even before Theatre. Plus, the theater ...
Of course, not all of it was fake lol
Dale had first visited the Theatre to probably investigate Laura's murder
stable wigeon
^
upper drift
Death*
azure bay
Of course, not all of it was fake lol
if the place was controlled by Owl & Bob was an important figure in his plans, Mr. Crow could be a part-time bartender just for that sake
upper drift
Where he did see a bartender, he did see the lights turn on and the opera singer performing, etc
upper drift
if the place was controlled by Owl & Bob was an important figure in his plans, M...
Well, we've seen that Mr. Owl can manipulate facts and memories, there's a fair chance he also knows how to plant his pawn in the game
Like how Dale's grandfather conveniently turned into Mr Crow
stable wigeon
?
upper drift
(Cube escape Birthday)
stable wigeon
thats not aldous
upper drift
Um
stable wigeon
is it
azure bay
Well, we've seen that Mr. Owl can manipulate facts and memories, there's a fair ...
He wouldn't manipulate such crucial facts in Bob's memory. These were the main reason he was held in the facility.
altering them by Sarah is expected to make Bob useless
upper drift
He wouldn't manipulate such crucial facts in Bob's memory. These were the main r...
No, he was manipulating Dale's memories
stable wigeon
well
stable wigeon
is it really correct to say "manipulating"
upper drift
AGAIN if you recall Case 23 Chapter 2
3*
There was the Corrupted soul or Mr. Deer
Of*
stable wigeon
yea that was interesting
upper drift
Who had also escaped
azure bay
No, he was manipulating Dale's memories
yeah, I get your point. I'm just telling that Mr. Crow is more confirmed to be that barman than you originally anticipated
upper drift
Hmmmm
upper drift
is it really correct to say "manipulating"
Changing, Manipulating
So I've got one more curious fact
We saw Laura change her fate
stable wigeon
i wondered why deer of all people was seemingly against dale going into the lake
azure bay
We saw VanGogh change his fate
not really
stable wigeon
was deer the eldest in paradise island
upper drift
not really
Or atleast "Escape" it
upper drift
was deer the eldest in paradise island
Second oldest
stable wigeon
i meant father
stable wigeon
He was the leader of the cult tho right
upper drift
The oldest was Mrs Pheasant
Mr. Owl's grandmother
stable wigeon
oh i thought pheasant was the girl
upper drift
He was the leader of the cult tho right
Well tbh... they were all just randomly following it
stable wigeon
pigeon was grandmother
azure bay
I'd like to mention that Eilanders' ages don't correspond the guests' ones
http://blog.rustylake.com/introducing-a-new-character-every-week/
http://blog.rustylake.com/introducing-ms-pheasant/
http://blog.rustylake.com/meet-mr-rabbit/
http://blog.rustylake.com/mr-boar-another-quest-of-the-rusty-lake-hotel/
http://blog.rustylake.com/meet-our-last-guest-of-the-rusty-lake-hotel/
stable wigeon
well
hmm
i mean they could've reincarnated
thats how they got the way they are
upper drift
The only one person who has reincarnated is William to tho
stable wigeon
oh rlly
upper drift
They were just there to try and discover the Potion Ig
stable wigeon
i thought it was part of the circle of life shit lmao
azure bay
The only one person who has reincarnated is William to tho
on screen that is
upper drift
on screen that is
True
azure bay
ah, Jacob has reincarnated as his previous body was burnt
stable wigeon
yes but