🤔｜theories

[rancid slate]

+William statue

The curve

[rancid slate]

Which is also reused from the Chapel

[remote remnant]

so during the roots level "the trenches" (Winter 1918) do yall think it was william that took care of shell shock induced leonard or was it Albert instead?

[craggy notch]

the more obvious answer is that it's william's corrupted soul as with the rest of the game, but it's the kind of inconsequential headcanon one can have

[rancid slate]

Same

Same for James's tongue sacrifice level

[craggy notch]

or the eyes

i think it could have very well been albert on his own but for the sake of gameplay

it's the soul helping him

[rancid slate]

The characters usually appear in the scene

Even when it looks like they are doing nothing

[grand locust]

Albert I think?
William affects,but not too directly,
We see him help Leonard back in battlefield,with mask,But about his wounds at home,I suppose it’s Albert?
I mean,player doesn’t play as William all the times,sometimes it’s just characters doing it
Or for example Wedding photo?
It’s definitely not William,maybe they hired photographer or it’s some one of family did it

I tend to believe William did impacts big enough to direct family to needed result,but didn’t straight up did them like puppets

[rancid slate]

William deniers

[remote remnant]

lol

I like to think it's Albert

it'd be a redeeming quality & add some depth to his character ig

[rancid slate]

#TeamWilliam

[azure bay]

actually Trenches don't make much sense

He's supposed to be in a hospital, not Vanderboom's workshop

and his wounds are supposed to be tended by medics

[rancid slate]

Wrong

He was in my house

Im William

The alchemist

[craggy notch]

hahah look who didn't survive the elixir 😹

unlike me

i'm too goated

[rancid slate]

Atleast Im not BALD

[rancid slate]

Not even the foot, right?

Why would they keep the foot, lol

[craggy notch]

https://tenor.com/view/spamton-watch-yo-tone-swatch-undertale-gif-8203768380277250079

how dare you

[azure bay]

I'm sure all sacrifices were collected by William

[rancid slate]

✊ 😔 Half William deniers

[royal notch]

Also because of its dynamic. How did actually William' s corrupted soul save Leonard? Plus being miles away.

[grand locust]

William?

[grand locust]

EXACTLY!

[azure bay]

The most simple explanation (not necessarily true) William followed Leonard and put a mask on him so he wouldn't die due to gas released by the grenade that took his leg

[grand locust]

At least why they’d dint put him into bed room to treat his wounds?
Perhaps Albert didn’t want Damaged Leonard to Scare Rose,so he temporarily hid him in workshop when treating his wounds?

[royal notch]

While he was asleep? It' s starnge imagining a black ghost suddenly handing a mask over.

[grand locust]

William neeed him alive and give a sacrifice,so yeah probably
The segment where William enters his memories could be metaphorical way that Williams as able to follow Leonard?

[rancid slate]

Imo we didnt saved him irl, we just reminded him he is alive in the dream

[azure bay]

I don't trust many parts of this chapter. It doesn't make sense

[azure bay]

Likely

[grand locust]

Fair
William maybe never followed him,jsut altered his memories so he doesn’t mentally die of shock or something(?)

[azure bay]

Sounds weird

[rancid slate]

He's already in the house

And even his parents appear in the dream

[azure bay]

That's exactly what doesn't make sense

[grand locust]

Lays on table of his dead fathers workshop instead of his bedroom

Narrative is not to trust in Rusty lake

[azure bay]

These are war flashbacks. Probably featuring his fever dreams from the actual trenches

[rancid slate]

Plural or singular?

Seems always the same event

Just being repeated until something's changed

[royal notch]

A table has a better use for medical operations than a bed.

[azure bay]

I think Leonard saw everything (that makes sense) there and then.

In sequence

We the players see only fragments

[grand locust]

Fair I guess

[rancid slate]

You mean the post-grenade parts, right?

[azure bay]

Yep

[rancid slate]

Or this man died 10 times

[grand locust]

If yes

[azure bay]

You've got what I actually mean

[grand locust]

Than Leonard outdied and Outlive Laura with amount of death sequences?

[honest rain]

So, in Roots, they collected each organ from each Vanderboom family member- tears, blood, brain, foot, hair, etc... but no stomach? Huh.

[rancid slate]

Laura's hair isnt brown too, so it's not like all the sacrifices were passed directly to the reborn body

And I doubt some granny teeth would be good for a baby

Or that a small bit of blood would be enough

No bones, etc

It seems like the sacrifices were used by the Tree itself, not exactly to the baby

[craggy notch]

besides, in the past within, albert gets his birth mark and hair by just having blood

so it's not always accurate

[rancid slate]

His own blood

And a whole different process

Not even reborn, just ressurrected

[craggy notch]

still doesn't make sense how his hair formed from it

i think it's just about balancing the essences

[rancid slate]

Well, he still was himself, his soul so I guess that "helped" to preserve his characteristics?

[craggy notch]

that could make sense actually

[craggy notch]

something i just realized is that i made a joke at some point about the title of the new game, where i said that because the name will be "servant of the lake", we will play as a vandermeer, because that also means "of the lake"

that has really grown on me since

[azure bay]

hmm

never thought about this from that angle

[craggy notch]

it feels strange to call it that when we're going to the vanderboom house to serve the alchemists, since their version of the elixir is not necessarily based on cubes or past and future lives, and is just generally not about the lake as much as it's about aldous and william

although

perhaps the future lives aspect is there, because of the crow egg used to craft the elixir

[azure bay]

no one's version of the elixir is based on cubes or past and future lives. The cubes are just containers of otherwise traditional alchemical substances

[craggy notch]

either way, "servant of the lake" is a title that strikes me as if it was meant to give us this hint

either that or a very on point but not lore related bit of poetic liberty

[craggy notch]

you're right, i confused the elixir with rebirth

[grand locust]

His bone,flash and blood was used his hair jsut came with genetical code from his substances

Tho Im surprised We got his scar?
It was physical wound,how it came with his new body?
Yet his Birth mark shrank

[azure bay]

my initial interpretation was somebody literally serving the lake. Harvey, Mr. Bat or even Mr. Owl. But all 3 were dismissed with the new trailer and demo leaks from Gamescom

[azure bay]

I'm sure it didn't shrink. Just a victim of redesign

[craggy notch]

yeah i gave up on that theory because i realized it didn't hold up as well as i though, i guess the birth mark is just a design think/oversight

[craggy notch]

i mean, the vandermeers ARE normal people, but who's to say, for example, the grandpa didn't work for the vanderbooms? or even the great grandpa, given the time sotl presumably and at this point clearly takes place

except for the dad he was in on it in birthday

[rancid slate]

I dont think the identity would be revealed already in a demo or first level

[azure bay]

grandpa unlikely. He isn't 200 yo

but some ancestor...

[craggy notch]

yeah, i just mean it could be a vandermeer, which would be a way to tie the 2 families together

[azure bay]

it doesn't reveal the identity but likely rules out everybody we know

[rancid slate]

If New York is canon, I guess Dale's family lived in America too and not in RL

[craggy notch]

perhaps it was all planned ahead of time so that dale would work on laura's case, leading to him eventually taking mr. owl's place

it's all one big conspiracy between jakob, the vanderbooms and vandermeers

maybe

theory

[rancid slate]

Not sure if Vandermeer was really thought of. Vanderboom sure was for Laura (since it first appears in Roots) but Vandermeer so far doesnt seem much

[craggy notch]

yet another thing, dale will also become the ruler OF THE LAKE, so perhaps it is actually something that is thought out

or at least mr. owl wants dale to become, but the title remains

[azure bay]

Everything can be written into continuity. Like Rose is suddenly another Vanderboom literally "from the tree"

[craggy notch]

something of the lake

besides, even ignoring the dad theory, WHY would mr. rabbit shoot up dale's birthday specifically?

that's another good question

because it was all meant to bring him to rusty lake

but again, theory, or in this case, wild rambling fueled by the left over caffeine from the monster i chugged

[rancid slate]

Fair

[rancid slate]

He was there for the gun

That's what went missing

It's where he left the letter

Substance of a past life

[craggy notch]

oh yeah

i didn't think of that

still, i'm not against the idea of it being all a series of events meant to lead dale to the lake one way or another

wait....

series of events like-like a series of unfortunate events?

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-gets-flung-and-explodes-orange-cat-funny-cat-meme-explodes-gif-10706110874965244466

[rancid slate]

Could be somewhat planned but probably not since the start

Wouldnt make too much sense for the guests to corrupt if they were into a plan

But we have Albert

So I guess it's possible

[craggy notch]

who knows

probably the devs actually

they know i think

[rancid slate]

The worm knows

[craggy notch]

yes, but i won't ask him because i want to see it unfold

[azure bay]

I'm against. Rabbit didn't need that. Owl didn't find Dale at the time

[craggy notch]

snow globe

oh wait

maybe that's only in the memory

didn't actually happen

[azure bay]

https://tenor.com/vrVE.gif

[craggy notch]

yeh

[azure bay]

the date in the globe was 1966

[rancid slate]

Me when 1966

[remote remnant]

Dale

[rancid slate]

The 6th Key in UB is a reference to 1966 /jjjjjj

[grand locust]

Snow globes seems to have some certain power in RL?
Paradice snow globes creating snow from sky,birthday snow glob contacting past/showing us how Harvey got kill3d all that stuff)

[craggy notch]

yeah, i think it's related to mr. owl/jakob specifically

aka me

because i am mr. owl

[azure bay]

I think we need more examples to connect the dots with clear conscience

[rancid slate]

The next snow globe could make a Golden Cube

[craggy notch]

probably

the next slow globe shows you the worm

[rancid slate]

The next snow globe shows David being happy with his ice cream

[craggy notch]

and his ball too

[remote remnant]

and his frog

[craggy notch]

oh we're not... oh like david from paradise

my mistake

https://tenor.com/view/my-name-is-david-gif-8023131697972652163

i thought it was him

[remote remnant]

My name is Edwin

[craggy notch]

my name is mr. owl

i made the hotel

[grand locust]

I know I know, “Twice is coincidence,thrice is pattern” but still
In both situations,snow globes felt a bit out of place(why eilender has a snow globe only for one plague and why Dales family kept a snow globe in kitchen?) it’s like they hinting on something

[remote remnant]

I mean they have a lot of things for only 1 plague

[rancid slate]

Both were in a Winter/snow moment

So snowglobe related puzzle

The game would look like a mess if the same objects were in all plagues and had no use too, so for that it's level/game design

[grand locust]

Fair

[grand locust]

True

I jsut thought it could be cause Snowglobes “function” a bit like cubes,holding miniature of certain place in frozen moemnt(or winter time,if it has snow)

[azure bay]

Honestly, I'd question even "thrice". But that's beyond the point.

I can imagine a magical artefact in the Eilanders' possession alright. I'm more confused by the hail plague itself. What's the problem? The snow feels natural, considering how trees change through other plagues. So what else? A snow globe working? How terrifying!

Then, Dale's family didn't keep a globe. It was Mr. Owl's addition to the memory.

[grand locust]

Mmm,true

About Plague,maybe that type of cold wasn’t natural to Rusty lake and therefore such climate change is counted as plague? Or the plague as it happening in middle of warm season?

[azure bay]

I'm telling ya, it wasn't in the middle of a warm season. It was autumn during the previous plague. It's spring in the next one

[craggy notch]

so you could say the game takes place during the seasons... hhmm...

[azure bay]

in the middle of The Lake

with The Cave beneath

[craggy notch]

there could also be a tree, something which has roots

on the paradise island

[azure bay]

Caroline stored The Past Within her cubes and the cult are basically Servants of The Lake

[rancid slate]

Kinda related to Paradise

But

There is no blood moon "registered" during those years

[azure bay]

you mean historically?

[rancid slate]

Yeah

[craggy notch]

like.. like a red moon?

https://tenor.com/view/was-that-a-will-wood-reference-will-wood-music-reference-funny-gif-16625149211774428101

[craggy notch]

interesting, but probably not really relevant as far as we know

[azure bay]

I don't think that matters. With Prozac being released in 1986 and Leonard's branch being a mess of random WW1 artefacts with no rhyme or reason

Rusty Lake don't do their history homework

[remote remnant]

wdym by Leonard's branch?

[rancid slate]

Question everything in RL 💔

[craggy notch]

not the worm tho

he knows

[rancid slate]

I guess the uniform, country not being in this war

The parents death in 1904 being in the news

[remote remnant]

he could've volunteered

neither the UK nor the USA had a draft in 1914

[remote remnant]

yeah that was very weird

[azure bay]

Leonard drove a rare American motorbike that wasn't even released at the time.

Wearing the British/Canadian/American uniform he was wounded be an American gas grenade and saved by a German gas mask.

Reference images are immediately found by googling for "WW1 motorbike/gas grenade/mask" on the 1st or 2nd position in google images

[rancid slate]

Leonard thought it was TF2

[azure bay]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-medic-tf2medic-tf2meet-the-medic-birds-gif-23358692

[remote remnant]

well in battlefield 1 a game all about ww1 soldiers of one country are using varying equipment, sometimes even enemy ones
considering what RL is i think they did a pretty decent job at portraying ww1

other than the gas grenade that looked weird

even a ww2/later period grenade would've looked better

[azure bay]

Battlefield isn't a historically accurate game either. Its priority are vibes and team balance

[remote remnant]

yeah

i mean

they gave leonard a generic, easily recognisable ww1 uniform

[rancid slate]

Is it called WW1 in Rusty Lake?

[craggy notch]

the rusty war

[daring cloud]

did we ever get an explanation of that bird from miss pigeons room in the hotel

the one that was in the chamber

[rancid slate]

No

But atleast we know that Mrs Pigeon intended to extract their memories

Part of a research, probably

Or study

[elder tree]

this theory is a little out there so stick with me
laura MIGHT be dead 🧐

[rancid slate]

Whaaat??

Actually, even being serious you can be wrong

Since she lives again in 1981

And even in Post-Cave too, she lives again

But she may be dead in another timeline

[daring cloud]

in Underground Blossom Robert meets Laura in a train station but in The White Door Robert meets her in a park...

[azure bay]

Actually Underground Blossom is their second meeting and it acknowledges the 1st one.

But yeah, the subway isn't real. However the basic story bits are

Metaphors don't cancel the plot

[daring cloud]

ohhhhh

[daring cloud]

did we ever get any info on that fish with the legs in harveys box? it seems to be a very reoccurring character

[rancid slate]

Only appears twice as far as I remember

More than Young Bird 💔 but no info

[rancid slate]

Random thought:
Harvey Reiziger

[azure bay]

I think it's just a weird lake fauna/Magritte reference. Seen only twice

[daring cloud]

well do you class the fish we see as the same fish? like the fish from Cube escape: The Lake is the same as the one from Harvey’s box?

[azure bay]

Honestly, I see no reasons to. Mr. Crow makes no sense in HB, so why should we tale the mermaid literally?

I think it would be just a reference if not for The Cave

[daring cloud]

Fair enough

[elder tree]

its messy but its peak 🩷

[tight ember]

I love Laura too much, I’m going to gaslight myself into believing she’s alive no matter what (I’m delusional)

[elder tree]

guysss she alive trust

[warm kiln]

hi delusional
I'm just hoping we don't get more suicides :)

[torn mortar]

This might be the silliest question to ask, but what are the chances that Robert and Laura's Robin is actually a reference to the Twin Peaks intro bird (which is actually a female thrush, but was also mistaken for a robin)?

This little fella

[azure bay]

Would be fun but no idea.

I've just realized. What if in Seasons Laura was using "energy from the future" like Albert in The Past Within?

The devs said there was a form of the elixir in Seasons. The Cave says that the golden cube is its form too

[rancid slate]

Energy from the future, you say?

[long smelt]

I believe that Laura was already cursed to die from the elixir the moment she was born. Because she contains William's soul, and he died because the elixir. So I believe the curse of the elixir is stuck in someones soul.

[rancid slate]

There isnt an Elixir's curse tho

[azure bay]

There's no such thing that elixir curse. It's just a ritual. One is sacrificed, the other is promoted. William was sacrificed and what happens to him next is nobody's concern.

And Laura died because of very clear reasons. She was depressed because she felt abandoned my her mother and her protective trinket was stolen.

[long smelt]

I mean yeah, but she was suppose to die so that Dale can get enlighted. Even though she died due to depression, she is still connected to the elixir.

So maybe her depression just speed up the death. She was suppose to die because of Dale also being connected to the elixir. One get enlightened, the other dies.

[rancid slate]

She still lives again

Twice

[azure bay]

She needs to die due to new elixir. The birb crew even somehow revived her before the big event.

It has nothing to do with the old one

[tight ember]

Did Rose actually give birth to Laura or was it like, she just did this ritual and Laura was born out of thin air or something?? Did my girl just get pregnant from a ritual and give birth from that??

Idk if this actually belongs in theories or not

[honest rain]

Yeah, I was wondering that too- but then I realised it's Rusty lake so maybe Laura magically appeared outta thin air or was born via flower (just like Frank)

[tight ember]

Probably, there’s almost no normal pregnancy/childbirths in rusty lake

Just look at the vanderboom family:

Rose: born from her freaky ass father jerking it into a jar and taking the egg from a DEAD person and a weird green potion

Frank: flower impregnation

Emma, Albert and Samual: ate some birth potion and fed the PLACENTA to the DOG (as well as feeding her kids wine and water)

Laura: whole ass ritual killing most of the family and collecting their limbs just so some old guy can live again

And Leonard: actually he’s the only one who had was born born normally as far as we know

[azure bay]

@honest rain @tight ember

Birth potion for Mary was a stimulator at best. Maybe even just gameplay. So it was pretty natural.

Rose's birth wasn't too supernatural either. Genetic materials were mundane, whatever Albert added was in order to create nutrient environment.

Flower impregnation (if we take it literally) makes Laura's biological birth more plausible.

But most importantly, Laura is connected to Rose not only with a branch but also a black line like other direct blood relatives

[tight ember]

Either way, it’s rusty lake so it can’t be normal

[craggy notch]

starting with the fact that said lake is rusty

[azure bay]

it wasn't normal per se (forcing reincarnation never is. Also fetus development time was fast-forwarded too)

But it wasn't a magical poof out of nothing either

this world has its laws

at the very least it pretends to

but it's meta

[torn mortar]

I'm borrowing some of this from Flawed Peacock's theories, but I also wonder what people here think about this:

If we go with moths being the corrupted souls of butterflies, and butterflies are a recurrent symbol in RL and usually symbolize change or transformation

Transformation here is William's soul into Laura's body, but it has gone twisted/corrupted or didn't go through completely (moth instead of butterfly) and caused the immense depression Laura experienced

Is it possible, that like Twin Peaks, Laura killed herself not from depression alone but to stop the "transformation" or "possession" William is trying to do? Like Twin Peaks Laura trying to stop BOB?

[rancid slate]

While I also had the idea of William killing Laura after playing Roots

Im pretty sure the case is depression since Seasons

So no William involved atleast for now

(UB is also about Laura's life, death and the suicide reason)

[torn mortar]

I mean yeah but Seasons was the first released game over a decade ago. I think at the time it was just depression, but then when we got more lore and more worldbuilding idk 🤷🏻‍♀️

Could be more complicated ig

[rancid slate]

If that was the case, I would expecting seeing William after Roots

[torn mortar]

Hmm fair

We are seeing him soon ig though

Can't wait 🙏🏻

I also really want to see Dale again 💔

Haven't seen him since paradox

[short atlas]

I think that’s a good theory, I mean I’ve always thought that Laura’s depression was caused partly by problems of identity and an awareness of her reincarnation of William, but I haven’t played underground blossom yet, so idk

[short atlas]

I second this, I miss Dale :(

[rancid slate]

*The White Door/UB

[torn mortar]

Yeah but those are mostly easter eggs

I mean an actual Dale game

https://tenor.com/bUJDj.gif

[rancid slate]

Atleast he talked in TWD Hes not even facing us in UB

[torn mortar]

As far as we know she is probably somewhat aware of the Lake's shenanigans too.

Her being at the cabin and her drawing hotel and her childhood...

[azure bay]

1. Black moths specifically are generally a bad omen. Sometimes a symbol of death. The change symbolism is likely attributed to Dale exclusively. His photo is behind a moth-treat-wall in The Cave, his mind has the white moth wallpaper.

2. The theory of Laura being possessed by William is ridiculous. We had 9 years to reveal something like that. We recently had a whole game dedicated to Laura. There's no trace of William other than his memories of elixir Mr. Owl is after.

And Underground Blossom was upfront about the reason of Laura's death. It was abandonment by Rose.

[torn mortar]

I think in the 9 years we had Roots and Samsara Room both show that but ok

[azure bay]

No, all they show is that a reincarnation took place

In secret SR ending William even says "Is it me?" While looking at Laura

[torn mortar]

🤷🏻‍♀️

He still has an outsider perspective to Laura

Like he is looking at her from outside the window, same as in seasons when there is someone looking at us (Laura) from outside the window 🤷🏻‍♀️

I know it's reincarnation, but Laura is still her own person meanwhile William, while tied to her, doesn't get to be fully "in a new body"

Which I presume is what the brothers wanted via immortality speedrun attempt

[azure bay]

That doesn't work like that in Indian religions

[torn mortar]

Alright ig

I was looking at it from a Twin Peaks perspective

[azure bay]

As far as evidence goes, Laura's issues are tied to Rose.

She's in her nightmares, her portrait is with her throughout the whole chapter, the dying question was "where did she go?".

UB is confusing about many things but this one was surprisingly direct

[torn mortar]

So what was the timepiece supposed to protect her from?

Bring her closure for Rose? Prozac alternative?

Idk the timepiece feels more mystical than that to me

[azure bay]

That's a good question

Not really sure

It seems it's really somehow connected to Rose

It seemingly leads us to her in the end

[torn mortar]

Or the Vanderboom family as a whole 🤷🏻‍♀️

[azure bay]

In SOTL the timepieces have their owners too

The golden one belongs to William

[torn mortar]

For me personally I saw UB as showing events from Laura's life as a whole.

Her mother leaving
Her being a loner at school
Breaking up with robert

imo each event added to her troubled mental state, but not one specifically caused her death by itself

[torn mortar]

Right. And Rose, and Laura

Overall Laura didn't kill herself until after visiting the Lake

Something there was the final straw imo

[azure bay]

Yes, it omits many events but Rose was a HUUUGE emphasis.

"Yours fears are rooted in your past. This medicine will give you understanding" And again it shows Rose.

There's really nothing to discuss here

[torn mortar]

Alright lol

Agree to disagree

Hopefully SotL will shed more light on William and his sibling/siblings and what is going on

[ionic plaza]

What if: the lake just wanted to have friends

[craggy notch]

what if the REAL lake was the friends we made along the way....

[violet berry]

How do y’all think the lakewater tastes?

[wheat ore]

tetanus

[unkempt thicket]

probably blue.and a bit green...alsoolld probably!!

coughhh

[honest rain]

Like rusty nails?

[short atlas]

i think it would be cool if the farther down you go, the more it tastes like blood

[violet berry]

I think that would be pretty questionable

What did Mr Owl throw in there man

[craggy notch]

trash

the hotel hasnt got that much space since its on an island so...

[violet berry]

Don’t you just use mr Crow to get groceries and stuff like that

[craggy notch]

oooouuughhhh

my back

[violet berry]

[craggy notch]

guys i got a thought rn

in the short film and secret ending of paradox dale drinks the green drink

could it be representing the elixir?

then again, if that's the case, someone else should have drank it and lived not too late after

then again it's the non canon ending so ... but you really can never know with rusty lake

[rancid slate]

I consider all endings as canon

But no, I dont think it's supposed to be the Elixir

Otherwise it would just be called Elixir instead

Absinthe is also green

[craggy notch]

i'd agree on that except i always saw the green drink as dale's demise/failure to balance the substances, turning him into a corrupted soul

[rancid slate]

I think its more of a good ending

It saves Laura

Possibly why she's alive post Cave

[craggy notch]

alive is a bit generous

she seems to be pretty much just a corrupted soul in the cave

[rancid slate]

Thats..

Thats in-Cave

I said post Cave

[craggy notch]

oh yeah

[rancid slate]

UB post-game

[craggy notch]

she's the beggar.

...although....

[rancid slate]

Not really a theory, but I just thought like searching for the meaning of some names (Which most of them dont really match with the characters)

And Alexandra means "Helper/Protector/Defender/Savior of mankind/warriors"

Do if the name choice was intentional, I guess she could have the intentions of saving one of the brothers

Perhaps William? Or maybe thats why Aldous lives

(Talking about the Elixir)

[craggy notch]

there's an alexandra....?

[rancid slate]

Still considering the painting, Im still wondering how they know about becoming a crow

[rancid slate]

Yes, she is the "unexpected visitor" in SotL

Her name was revealed in a quick video by Cressup (Gamescom)

If Robin said it, I think it's fine

[craggy notch]

is she in any other trailer?

i genuinely am puzzled right now

[rancid slate]

Alexandra?

She appears in both old and new trailer, yes

The old-looking woman in a red dress

[craggy notch]

oooh, ticket lady...

[craggy notch]

that's interesting

[craggy notch]

that's a younger ticket lady to me

[rancid slate]

Im still not buying that idea

[craggy notch]

okays...

i do buy it tho

she is also mr. bat trust

[rancid slate]

Ive seen both of them in the same room

[craggy notch]

shhh

[rancid slate]

Maybe her grandma

Grandma Alexandra Ticket

Mom Ticket

Daughter Ticket

Would be funny if they were actually related but the ticket lady had no relevance, lol

Some months before, I would consider the old people as 70

But I guess for RL that age would be 60

So Ticket Lady might have been born in ~1870

Younger than Albert

[rancid slate]

Albert was 59 in his death and Aldous was 60 when the Elixir was done

Her hair not being gray may be because she is her 50s (similar to Rose's)

If that really is the logic.. Aldous would have a grayish hair by 1850s, making full black Aldous hair mostly possibly in the 1840s.. sooooo Alexandra may have been born in the 1780s

Im also considering the fact that Samuel still has full black hair when almost 40

(36-37), year of death

[azure bay]

she's not the ticket lady. They look alike but noses are completely different

[wheat ore]

who's Alexandra ?

[rancid slate]

@wheat ore her

[wheat ore]

oh shi

why she looking at me like I owe her money 😭

[rancid slate]

One coin please

[craggy notch]

it's her i'm telling you

you can call me crazy now... but soon you'll see

you'll ALL see....

[rancid slate]

Cant ignore the fact that they are two generations apart of each other

[craggy notch]

shhh

she's ticket lady and grandma eilander is beggar

[rancid slate]

In gonna call it..

The Rusty Lake granny effect

Where people consider all old ladies to be the same character

[craggy notch]

ticket lady is also mr. bat

thus making beggar mrs. pigeon

[rancid slate]

No, she's Harvey..

[fiery wing]

Honestly the features are kinda similar to Mr bat

Mr bat is another enlightened trans icon?

[craggy notch]

yes.

you see the world my way

[craggy notch]

wait a minute i'm tweaking

the steam description for the paradox movie says something about an old foe

which is the reason he's in the room

is it just mr. crow?

[rancid slate]

Prob Mr. Owl

[craggy notch]

yeah

makes sense

[rancid slate]

He's the head of the operation

[craggy notch]

the man behind the paradox

bear5 more like lake5

[rancid slate]

Tho it's funny since the film is mostly chapter 1 it doesnt have him

Unless the telephone voice is Mr. Owl

[royal notch]

I always assumed Dale' s old foe was his own corrupted soul, after all that was his test.

[rancid slate]

The Eilander house is probably bigger than what appears in-game, right?

Thats the only place I can see making sense for when one of the family members disappear in-game

For example, Elizabeth disappearing after her puzzle in the Hail plague

Does the 2nd plague takes place in the same day as the 1st one?

Because Elizabeth says "It's good to feel your presence again, brother" as if she hasnt met us until now

She's the only one to not appear in the 1st plague

[rancid slate]

Either this or Elizabeth wasnt in the island?

There may be more disappearences but I dont remember all of them

[craggy notch]

a detail i just noticed is that the secret paradox ending ||with the golden cube and the elevator|| is very much similar to how the cave ends, which is another thing that makes me think paradox happens while dale is in whatever machine mr. crow was using at the bottom of the lake

[rancid slate]

I may have only thought of it now:

In UB post-game, we see Dale already arriving in the elevator

And when we enter the big white cube, Mr. Crow is also already inside the elevator with Laura

Fastest elevator ever

That actually means that is our furtherst point in the Dale Journey timeline

Theatre ending -> Hotel ending -> UB Collection scene -> ?

[remote remnant]

Dale

[craggy notch]

yes

[azure bay]

We meet again. Finding your corrupted soul is the final test.

[unkempt thicket]

Dale...

[honest rain]

So since Laura IS in the elevator, is it metaphoric of anything (will Laura/William/'whatever she is at this point' come back as anything else)? Maybe that means Laura might reappear AGAIN, since Mr Crow said to Mr Owl in the bonus level ||"We always meet again, whether in the present or past"||, also about Laura 'breaking the cycle' as symbolised by cherry blossoms

[rancid slate]

Im pretty sure it's just literally her going up to the Hotel

Both her and Dale will be part of the Day of the Lake

[unkempt thicket]

off topic I read this as "Laura IS the elevator"

[waxen trench]

“since Mr Crow said to Mr Owl in the bonus level ||"We always meet again, whether in the present or past"||”
||we’lllllll meeet agaaaiiiiin, don’t know whereeeee don’t know whennnnnnnnn.. but i know we’ll meet againnn some sunny dayyy|| /lyr

[rancid slate]

@waxen trench what Bonus level?

If you mean Roots, we dont play as Mr. Owl neither Crow

[waxen trench]

Oh i’m not sure? I was quoting Stephanie before singing the lyrics to a vera lynn song lol

What she said reminded me of the song, thats why i replied to it

No idea what bonus level she’s referring to LMAOO 😭

[craggy notch]

it's probably the roots one but mr. crow is talking to william, not mr. owl

[rancid slate]

Yeah

[honest rain]

Yes, I think it was the Roots 'bonus level' one, after we finish crafting the elixir and Mr Crow transforms for the very first time into crow-man.

[steel oracle]

As I see, all cube scapes are Cubes. Memories being rubbed again and again. Maybe not Cave because it’s not Dale.
Paradox is almost certainly a cube. Maybe some Dale memories mixed with some hallucinations or reinterpretations of memories in metaphoric ways.

They are all happening while dale is taken by Mr Owl and prepared to become the new lake owner.

[rancid slate]

I'd say only Seasons, Birthday, Theatre

Possibly The Lake too

Case 23, The Mill and Cave are pretty much the "reality"

Thats for sure

While Harvey's Box and Arles.. there's not much going on to really matter tbh

Paradox is not really a cube "memory", but rather a simulation during Cave

Could be some kind of super altered cube but eh there's no real reason to

The machines/monitor things connected to them seem like they could do the job well

[steel oracle]

Harvey box is when Harvey becomes free and possibly will return to human form.

Lake, Mill and Cave are about Mr Crow, and how they are preparing Dale, so not much a memory, but the weird nature of the lake let weird things happen like if in a dream

[rancid slate]

Both The Lake and Harvey's Box take place during Laura's trip in 1969

In the Lake we play as Laura

[azure bay]

Arles is a memory because "What do I remember?"

[rancid slate]

Human form Harvey wasnt a thing back then too, atleast not in-game

[azure bay]

Harvey isn't supposed to go back to that form, especially not that early. 2 years later the samsara wheel still attributed him to the animal realm

[rancid slate]

HB and Lake falling into the limbo and not being revisited 💔

[steel oracle]

Harvey appears as the guardian of Laura in UB, and seems to be a human, but I think it is as much as figurative as the stations and all things in the game.

[azure bay]

yeah, UB is the least trustworthy game ever.

the only thing it did right was revealing the cause of Laura's depression and death

[rancid slate]

And introducing the Thief as a big part of the main plot

[azure bay]

nah, not sure he's even canon

[rancid slate]

His full name is Thief Canon Vandermeer

I really wonder if the UB Timepiece will link to SotL

Like, not just being it, but maybe an explanation or if they are gonna be more explored

UB or Roots timepieces

[azure bay]

maybe not link per se but I'd really appreciate a clarification how they work

[rancid slate]

And maybe something similar to Paradox having Bob's book and tape

(As connections to TWD)

For now, the only possible connections between UB and SotL are the Brothers portraits and Timepiece

[daring cloud]

Is it the lake water that gives off the effects of the lake or the lake itself?

[azure bay]

what effects?

[daring cloud]

such as the existence of the cubes, the plagues of paradise, the corrupted souls, enlightenment, ect

[azure bay]

cubes, corrupted souls and enlightenment are independent from the lake

only plagues were seemingly caused by it

[daring cloud]

oh alright

[azure bay]

I personally think it's not the water but what beneath it

but it's due to a particular interpretation of The Past Within

As I see it, the cubes turned out parallel timelines and the "original" timeline turned out to be a cube too. And all cubes seemingly float in the lake where time does not exist

so the lake is some kind of a multiverse hub

[daring cloud]

huh, alright

interesting

[azure bay]

besides, what's beneath the water surface doesn't seem to continue what's above.

What I mean, there's supposed to be land under the hotel and Paradise island. That's how islands work, they are basically underwater hills. But it's empty, only the forest and supposedly water which acts weird

it's as if it's a separate dimension and the surface is some kind of a portal

[royal notch]

Well, i hate to be that guy, but better safe than sorry. Everyone, please know that there' s a thread in this channel to talk freely about the latest releases. If you are going to play the demo, please avoid to accidentally kill newcomers with fresh spoilers here. Have fun!

[covert wyvern]

we'll definitely point to this come release! but thanks for the heads up:)

[latent wharf]

theory as to how frank got so tall despite probably being malnourished in the well for 33 years:
he is part plant
photosynthesis

[azure bay]

Without being green?
||Ok, that was too nitpicky||

Without much sunlight down the well?

[latent wharf]

i mean
i feel like he'd get plenty of sunlight whenever it was noon

the sun would be right above him

wait forgot the well had a lil roof cover thing

[azure bay]

And even without that, the sun gets perfectly vertical only on specific latitudes during specific times of year and not for long during the day

[latent wharf]

i mean frank being stuck in the well for that long is kinda weird to begin with bc like

you mean to tell me
33 years
no one looked down into the well

[surreal oak]

They propbably wouldn’t have seen him due to the lack of sunlight, but they should have been able to hear him

[azure bay]

yeah, it's a big question why he didn't scream

some speculate he was threatened by Albert

[barren wind]

I speculate it wouldn’t have been the storyline they wanted if he’d gotten out 😆

[rancid slate]

Not exactly a theory but I noticed the Steam icons follow the black object/building + same color bg so I thought of this

[rancid slate]

Or maybe something like Dawn of the Lake as the Mammoth game

[azure bay]

why so complicated? Let it be just Mammoth of the Lake

[rancid slate]

True

And the icon is just the Mammoth png

[surreal oak]

I would love a Caroline prequel

[rancid slate]

Maybe with Lacus Fleo too

[daring cloud]

omg i just realised- dale killed laura. he was investigating a murder he caused (based on paradox)

[little harbor]

but isn't paradox all in his head?

[south haven]

I thought it was strongly suggested Laura killed herself, although I guess we don't have anything concrete about that either.

[little harbor]

yea same

[royal notch]

"Underground blossom" has been quite explicit about Laura' s suicide, and even before we got her own memory of the act.

[little harbor]

my whole take on paradox is that it's like

at the cube at the bottom of the lake yk

and it's all made by mr owl or maybe mr crow to help prepare dale for becoming the ruler of the lake but also it's to help dale move on from Laura's murder in a way so that he can be a Good ruler of the lake

so all of the loops of watching laura die and killing laura is maybe to just help him realize that he can't do anything about it and that he can't save her or anything maybe

[azure bay]

Dale killing Laura is the core of the loop and the paradox in the end.

If Dale from the next iteration doesn't kill Laura, nobody will get a Paradox cube and won't be able to restart

Also The Choice revolts around it

Blue vial is a "mistake"

Green vial is preventing that "mistake" by killing the would-be killer

Red vial is an attempt to evade the choice. But Dale "cannot escape the consequences of his actions and neither can she"

[little harbor]

i c i c

[wild dragon]

Hi i have a question
In Roots we have “Family Band” and "Voodoo” parts and both are happening in summer 1904. In the end of Family Band we can see dead Mary, and little Leonard wondering is his parents dead under big “There will be blood” writing. In The Voodoo Albert is in fact killing Ida and Samuel. But later in the game on the graveyard date of death on Mary's grave is 01.05.1904 but Ida and Samuel have 30.12.1904. I thought all of their deaths happened at the same time. So is this mistake or different meaning behind this?

[rancid slate]

Timeskip

Or

Albert hid Ida and Samuel's bodies

[rancid slate]

Another example of timeskip in-game is The Mill which takes during 1971-1972 with no indication of that besides outside knowledge

Same goes for The Search which starts 1891 but probably goes atleast to 1894 since it matched The Breakout scene

[unkempt thicket]

I think that William isn't Laura, but is actually reborn as William afton.
-# /j I think...

[unkempt thicket]

a literal answer would be a timeskip, but in a more metaphorically way I think its more of Leonard being scared since so many of his loved ones are dying, even if the deaths are months apart, so dead Mary is just in Leonard's mind

[barren wind]

I think only Mary died in Family Band and Albert killed Samuel and Ida later. Maybe he’d kept them hidden away somewhere before Voodoo’ing them

[wild dragon]

The Voodoo is still happening in the summer, byt they are scared of Abert in this part so I think this is because of Mary's death and writing. But theory that he hid their bodies before burying them appeals to me the most

[honest rain]

My theory is that since there's a horse and a cat in Servant of the Lake, we will soon see a "Mr Horse" guy and a 'Miss Cat' lady.

[azure bay]

We had a dog for years. Where's Mr. Dog then?

Oh, and what about other cats?

[dapper ether]

This theory is dumb and can easily be debunked. However, I feel like the Vanderbooms could be like the Eilanders in the sense that they have an animal counterpart. So Caroline + Jakob = Mr.Owl = Rose + Laura. Nicholas = Mr.Deer = Albert. Elizabeth = Ms.Pheasant = Ida. Margaret = Ms.Pigeon = Emma. David = Mr.Rabbit = Frank(..idk). Gerard = Mr.Boar = ???

(If y’all already saw this theory in general chat that’s bc I didn’t know there was a theory chat, sorry)

[craggy notch]

eaten

[honest rain]

Yeah, thing is I dunno if Mr Dog will also appear in future games? and IDK, maybe other cats have humanoid avatars too (shrug).

[azure bay]

9 years passed recently. We had several dog cameos but nothing about Mr. Dog.

I think it's safe to say it's not a thing. The same goes for the 2 cats being with us even for longer.

And most likely will go for whatever animal we meet since with a few exceptions.

Canonically we almost always meet demihumans 1st and their animal counterparts later. Harvey is an exception because he always was an important and a mysterious character. Pigeon in HB doesn't count because it being related to Mrs. Pigeon instead of her being just an asset reuse doesn't make sense. "Mr. Robin" isn't real, just a dream that combines 2 familiar connected images: Bob and the robin

[wheat ore]

I'm waiting for Mr.Dog's WiiSports collection ( 32 games )

[craggy notch]

let's hear it

[unkempt thicket]

okay so in general someone mentioned that Alexandra might be a lady of the lake type character like Caroline so I'm gonna talk about why I think it's probably true !!
spoilers for hotel and slight sotl demo spoilers btw!!!
|| so, in Ms pheasants room in hotel she dresses as three characters, Mr crow, Mr owl, and the lady in blue, right? all with their own corresponding headpieces. now unless I've just missed a part of rusty lake lore, I don't think the lady in blue is a nickname for any character that we know of. however, the titles "lady of the lake" and "lady in blue" are fairly similar, and it also just so happens to be that Alexandra from sotl wears a very similar hat that ms pheasant is seen wearing when she portrays the lady in blue. With that being said, I think Alexandra will probably play a role like Caroline, which also means something bad will probably happen to her ||
also this mighjttt be a bit of a stretch but whateveerrrr!!!

[craggy notch]

we tend to get stretchy here in the lake

or floppy, if you ask mr. peacock

[honest trout]

We have a Mr Peacock?

[craggy notch]

flawed peacock

[honest trout]

So I had a question..., after the event and so on in the hotel, what happened to it? I mean it's still there right, is it just empty?

[craggy notch]

but they should make him a character

[craggy notch]

it's been fortified after the souls escaped because we can see it has an automated metal door in UB

[rancid slate]

I mean, we dont know if its a new door

I dont think we saw the door opening before

[craggy notch]

feels like that's the implication to me

[rancid slate]

But yeah there was atleast one rennovation

[honest trout]

In underground blossom? I don't really remember much, I kinda rushed it

[rancid slate]

UB mentions it in the Child Lane newspaper

[honest trout]

Ohh

[rancid slate]

I think it's also worth mentioning Laura most likely stayed there too during her trip

So it probably still works as a normal Hotel too

And the sort unknown Mental Health program there

[craggy notch]

who else would it need to host at that point honestly

[honest trout]

I suddenly got the question cuz I felt it's unused...oh

[honest trout]

I forgot the mental health program existed 😭

[azure bay]

The Lady of The Lake in Theatre was likely just a stage name or an opera title.

The only ladies of the lake confirmed so far are Caroline and Laura and we have no idea why and what that means

[honest rain]

Mental health and Fishing, to be more precise.

[honest trout]

Yep

[honest rain]

Do you think as Dale reaches the Hotel in the future (~), eventually he will sprout deer antlers and his head will slowly become more deerlike (mirroring Mr Deer's anatomy)?

[craggy notch]

i think he's gonna get up and like

mr. owl will give him the elixir

and THEN his journey is complete

because dale's whole journey down the elevator was to balance the substances

so now that he's done with it his elixir is ready

unless you think it's the one he drank in paradox, then he'll come out as a hybrid

[rancid slate]

Give? But Dale's already holding the Elixir 🟨

[craggy notch]

welp

[rancid slate]

Theatre sets Dale to become a Deva, so I dont think he will look like a regular Asura like Mr. Deer or Owl

If they do repeat the Elixir stuff and Dale becomes an asura, maybe.. it's temporary

And after, he becomes Deva

But seems a bit unnecessary

For now, I see the Paradox asura Dale as just one of the other outcomes

[azure bay]

Honestly, just Dale VanderDeer already being a deva is within my expectations

[rancid slate]

Fair, but I dont think having characters that are supposed to be in 2 different realms sharing the same appearence traits would be good design-wise

[pliant talon]

hi! does anyone have a specific favorite video that explains the lore or has good theories? kind of like a fnaf timeline but for rusty lake

[warm kiln]

Flawed Peacock has really good and really long videos of the entire lore

[rancid slate]

I've also made a playlist of many Rusty Lake theory/explanation videos
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6NWKqMoa6AFLwhsQhEGxRJ-M5ifSrKs3

I know it says Community but it's still mostly theory-related videos 🙂

[pliant talon]

ooh! thanks guys

[latent wharf]

Joke theory:
The real main character is the shrimp

[warm kiln]

joke theory?

[latent wharf]

you know what
fair
its now a normal theory

[honest rain]

Since Rusty Lake advertises "Mental Health and Fishing", do the patients go fishing for health benefits (including Bob)?

[rancid slate]

In the Hotel version of the program, they probably have the option to. Now in The White Door.. possibly? We haven't seen any body of water nearby, but I guess the only direct "fishing" reference there is the question in their form about liking to fish

[honest rain]

Since mr Owl is always talking about the Day of the Lake, what does it meaaaan? Maybe it means that the lake will do an instrumentality project (ala evangelion anime, lol)

[rancid slate]

The Day of the Lake once (or twice) happened in Paradise

And may happen again but with Dale and Laura

[craggy notch]

the day of the lake is when the lake

[wheat ore]

the lake of the day is when the day

[pliant talon]

does the dog have a name?

hes just a little guy

[craggy notch]

dog

[wild dragon]

Vanderbooms are totally kind of people who would name a dog just the dog

[craggy notch]

either that or sum like socrates

[wheat ore]

Pawcrates the Second ( do NOT ask what happened to the first one 🙏 )

[honest rain]

What about Douglas (sounds a lot like Dog to me)

[craggy notch]

perchance

but not too ancient a name

[wheat ore]

Jonathan

[open grove]

Johnathan is a stellar name for the dog tbh

[wheat ore]

"Come here Jonathan. Jonathan do a woof for me. Jonathan, put the knife down Jonathan"

[craggy notch]

jonathan, see that coffee cup?

[wheat ore]

Jonathan do not touch the jar

[open grove]

Not the jar 😭

[craggy notch]

i mistyped

i meant to say

that a certain individual asked for water

[wheat ore]

I wonder if the cat is important in any way ? maybe it ate all of the shrimps and caused the end of time

[honest rain]

Maybe it will become a corrupted soul, or become Miss Cat (or Mr Cat) with its "Nyas" (cat noises)

[azure bay]

0_о

[craggy notch]

mr. mouse get ready

[latent wharf]

not really a theory moreso a question

who is this guy??

[open grove]

I always thought that was Nikolas Eilander, the dad. I thought that because he is the only one we don't see in that level

[latent wharf]

also love how like
the eilanders can survive some insane stuff

like david got turned into a whole bugman and he's fine

nikolas got stabbed in the head by bug david and he's fine

[open grove]

Literally. Even with Nikolas drinking the blood water in the first level

Still completely fine

[latent wharf]

grandma got stuck inside a snowman for who knows how long and got yoinked by a giant bug

[open grove]

Like when I first played that level with the giant bug I was like omg grandma's gonna die 😭 or like we don't see her for a bit but no she comes back, no context needed lol 😅

[latent wharf]

theory:
the eilanders are just built different
that or lake magic

[open grove]

My best guess is that she was dropped by the bug off the island and like got back on a boat or something and then got back to Paradise

[latent wharf]

my personal belief is that grandma fought the bug offscreen and won

[open grove]

Yeah worshippers of the Lake, get some of that lake magic fr ✨️

[open grove]

That was my second theory lmao 😂

[azure bay]

But he has no vibe nor voice acting.

Nicolas always had something to say

[open grove]

In real life, if you wear a plague doctor mask, your voice is so muffled, other people can't hear you speak. So it is totally Nikolas because it would be so random if RL just made an entirely new character with no context and in the middle of one of their bigger games

[azure bay]

Production-wise it wasn't a "new" character, they wanted to use a plague doctor and they designed him before the story was formed, as seen on the early build screenshots.

Story-wise, it's not crazy to invite a specialist of the field you are lacking at. Especially when they use a scepter with your religion iconography.

Voice-wise, it's not so difficult to add some effects to muffle an actual voice.

Vibe-wise, there's really nothing of Nicolas in him

[craggy notch]

i kinda think that he HAS to be part of the family if he believes in the cult, which i can assume from him having that scepter

[rancid slate]

It's actually Gerard

He's just that fast

[azure bay]

The lake religion is older and broader than Paradise

The chapel is a proof

[open grove]

I get Nikolas's vibe tho. Like Nikolas's whole thing is being like the specialist of finding the cubes and learning about them. He would totally be wise enough to learn medicine to help the family. And plsj like the area that we open up where the drums are and Like the constellation stuff is, is like his area. It corresponds with him

[open grove]

Yeah I always thought referencing the first level no one can get into paradise if you are not the family

[azure bay]

then why isn't he there?

I mean

why isn't he next to the patient?

[open grove]

He's the plaque doctor. He's literally stood outside of that area

[open grove]

The grandma is with Gerard then

[craggy notch]

i still think paradise is the eilanders' spin on the religion of the lake, given that they, especially nikolas, see themselves as the closest to it both physically (duh) and spiritually

they are the ones who sacrifice for the lake

[open grove]

They have a closer relationship than the Nikolas and Gerard

[azure bay]

with no equipment. Great job!

[open grove]

You can still take care of someone without advanced medical knowledge as a plague doctor tho. Plus how could she have known that he needed to have his heart removed and turned into a Clock. That is something no other character knew. We did that as the player

[open grove]

I see that too fr

[craggy notch]

"time can heal a broken heart"

-grandma eilander

aka beggar

[azure bay]

this one is even more baseless than Nicolas=plague doctor. The latter at least share time period

[craggy notch]

future life

like how ticket lady is alexandra, and also mr. bat

[azure bay]

what future life? she's a corrupted soul haunting the lake

[open grove]

See she was just kinda waiting for it to be healed, but she would still be taking care of him even tho even tho she didn't know the cause

[open grove]

The beggar is in the White Door

[azure bay]

the beggar is, Margaret aka Mrs. Pigeon isn't

[rancid slate]

William is reborn as a blonde lady, not an old man with the same build

[open grove]

The cycles of reincarnation can be more than two, seen with Mr owl

[craggy notch]

yes?

[azure bay]

can you please elaborate?

[craggy notch]

wait no acc i'm confused too

[open grove]

Jakob, then Mr owl, then Mr O in the White door, then whenever he turns into a fish said in Paradox

[craggy notch]

dr. o just felt like a disguise to me

[azure bay]

It's rather Mr. Owl as an asura has an ability to use his human disguise

[craggy notch]

a disguise probably based on how old jakob would have looked

i assumed

[open grove]

Ok then there is still 3, from Pardox then

[azure bay]

what do you mean?

[rancid slate]

Mr. O is old Jakob

[open grove]

At the end of paradox, you give Mr Owl the cubes where he gives Dale like a little speech. You give him the past cube he turns into Jacob, when you give him the present Cube he turns into Mr owl, when you turns into future he turns into a fish

[azure bay]

yes, and your point is?

[open grove]

In Harvey's box Mr Owl and Mr Crow are both represented as the crow egg and the fish and then when reality gets altered Mr Crow is there with a fish person

[open grove]

That the reincarnation cycle happens multiple times

Lake magic ✨️

Special stuff for the ruler of the Lake

[azure bay]

samsara works. The devs even said that the lake has nothing to do with it. But I still don't really get what your point is

[craggy notch]

that if it can happen multiple times grandma can be beggar

[azure bay]

it can and probably will. But NOW she's a hungry ghost haunting the lake

[open grove]

Plus the samsara room game was specifically with William and Laura not Mr owl

[azure bay]

The beggar was seen around 1969-summer 1972

The guests were still corrupted in December 1972 and Mr. Owl said only Dale can do something about them

including Mrs. Pigeon aka Margaret

therefore, something crazy should happen for her to be reborn as a beggar

[open grove]

Or it could just happen, no crazy stuff needed

[azure bay]

the timeline doesn't add up. She can hypothetically be reborn as A beggar. But to be THE beggar, time travel is needed. And time travel is crazy

she's supposed to haunt the lake as a ghost, not beg for money as an old woman

[craggy notch]

she feels pretty relevant to me given that she's in UB as well

[open grove]

Time travel is kinda achievable cause we have seen it with TPW

[craggy notch]

not quite

it's more like interacting from the outside

[open grove]

Or at least seen contact between two characters in two different timelines

[azure bay]

Well, she's a Bob-related reference. But even ignoring that she can be relevant in many ways

[craggy notch]

old rose never goes to the vanderboom house again

[rancid slate]

The Theatre Lady poster appears several times and has no big plot relevance

[craggy notch]

YET

[open grove]

YET

[craggy notch]

TEY

[open grove]

She's in Sotl trust

[azure bay]

or never, how do you guys know?

[craggy notch]

how do YOU know she wont?

just gotta believe twin

[azure bay]

I'm not saying she won't. I'm saying that either is possible and therefore neither can be used as evidence

or rather

the most reliable prediction is "tomorrow will be the same as yesterday"

But all that aside, so far both The Lady and the beggar are just recognizable background characters

Bob from Theatre visited the theater from Theatre and saw a play from Theatre starring a woman from Theatre

by the same logic, Bob from TWD got a donut from TWD and mentioned a beggar from TWD

[craggy notch]

robert

[rancid slate]

Thief has more chances than Beggar /j /j?

[azure bay]

Bobert

[craggy notch]

thief is actually old bird

[open grove]

Old bird = Thief bird confirmed ✅

[azure bay]

The beggar is a mysterious character. Chances are, she's even affiliated with Mr. Ow, but she's yet to appear outside Bob's shadow and she has no reason to be Margaret. For 1, as Sp said, the looks are no evidence in the universe of reincarnations. And I add that it doesn't matter how many times you are reborn.

For 2, again, we know where Margaret is and what she's doing. She has an alibi, you could say.

Time travel in TPW was limited to parallel timelines and, more importantly to cubes. Cube travel doesn't let you send your body into the past, only your mind in your past body and even then you forget what happens in the future.

[rancid slate]

I feel like the Hotel would already have a staff by this point (1839). It is still possible a SotL character turns into an asura either in the game or later in the timeline, but atleast so far there are no hints of Aldous or William working or knowing Mr. Owl

[azure bay]

Also @craggy notch Mr. Bat and the ticket lady are 2 different characters occupying 2 different ticket booths. Alexandra admittedly looks like ticket Lady but there are a handful of differences and the biggest ones are the nose and the head shape.

Another big problem is that most of UB background characters are likely just as non-canon as the stations. Chances are, the ticket lady never even existed because these trains and these tickets never did.

[craggy notch]

that is what the medias will yell you

but i

I believe

[azure bay]

I AM the media

[craggy notch]

exactly...

[azure bay]

Like, Subscribe and remember: Question Everything in Rusty Lake!

[crystal raven]

okay wait chat is there a like. timeline or like master thing of all canon or at least most commonly accepted version of things? i havent been able to play all the RL games (lack of funds) and am still new to things. reading this is mad interesting and im curious :3

[azure bay]

The Wiki is probably the closest thing

[rancid slate]

I think it's more appropriate to play all games before digging into the lore too

[craggy notch]

yeah, and release order is pretty much your best bet

for playing

when you can ofc

[crystal raven]

bett okay, thank you

[open grove]

Plus the timeline overlaps with several games

[rancid slate]

Not just because of spoilers, but also because some things may not make sense if you only play once or not paying much attention

[crystal raven]

I would but I physically cannot 😭

[azure bay]

Actually I engineered a bite-sized lore-friendly order for newcomers

[craggy notch]

chomp

elaborate

[crystal raven]

as in, I don't have the uh funds or ability to purchase the games im missing

[rancid slate]

Arles after TWD /j

[rancid slate]

If it helps, some times there are giveaways for the games in the server/social media

[crystal raven]

i have samsara, both chapters of cube escape, and TPW

[crystal raven]

ah thats nice!! i hope i didnt come off as like 'give me games' fdzbgfd i was just saying thats why i was asking /gen

[azure bay]

I grouped games by themes and shuffled them within these groups a bit so the event order is clearer. I made sure questions aren't forgotten before you get answers while the reveals are given in the intended order

[crystal raven]

cause if i could play all the games i totally would i just cannot currently

[azure bay]

@crystal raven I remembered that Flawed Peacock made 4 long summary videos covering 10 years of RL games.

Just try taking what he says with a grain of salt. Not only we theorists rarely agree among ourselves, we need to be constantly reminded not to overthink.

[crystal raven]

Ooh, okay! Thank you thank you.

[errant trellis]

he also says a lot in his videos that he’s only just been introduced to the series, and these are kind of his first theories or impressions of the theories of the games, so things might be wrong, and they’re just meant to be a starting point for learning about the rusty lake lore!

[crystal raven]

good to know !

[azure bay]

Yeah, that's absolutely right. The problem is, even with that said many are willing to blindly repeat after youtubers without thinking

[errant trellis]

i absolutely love his videos i’ve been watching them on repeat recently they’re so interesting and digestible

[errant trellis]

that’s very true, and a good thing to keep in mind!!

[crystal raven]

i just am a Curious Fellow and would like to learn some in the interim between being able to get the games

[rancid slate]

Considering Aldous's age/appearence, would he meet the Mill Lady when she's "younger" (20-40s) or only at her 50-60s?

Assuming she's a normal person (no enlightenment)

By hair color, I'd say she's atleast as old as Rose

[azure bay]

I'm starting to seriously consider that asuras can alter their appearance to some degree. With that she could meet him at any age

[rancid slate]

Like Mr. Owl-ish?

[azure bay]

Owl-ish what?

[rancid slate]

Idk he seems a bit different when bald in TWD compared to Paradox

May be just the artstyle

[azure bay]

the artstyle was supposed to be general post-Paradox

if Dale, Crow, fish and Laura are Paradox-like, he should've been too

[rancid slate]

Considering the photo of both of them old, I think it's more possible they met when she was already old

[rancid slate]

But I can see it

[azure bay]

I don't think RL would design younger characters just for realism sake

[rancid slate]

True

[azure bay]

a guy I used to debate a lot with once said that there's no way the VanderBros have a 3rd brother because there are no portraits

now we have Alexandra and her portraits

[rancid slate]

Alexandra is also younger in her portrait /j

[rancid slate]

I think they are called paintings in-game

[azure bay]

paintings are a form of art, portrait is a genre

[rancid slate]

I see

I think I asked it before but in a smaller way

What would be the logical reason to bring Dale/Laura to the Cabin/Mill instead of the Hotel to Use the Elevator/Extract memory?

I can see Dale's side because of his journey

But not so much about Laura's

Possibly Hotel was out of order? Due to breakout? But we also now have the Rennovation in the 40s

[azure bay]

or the opposite too populated to extract memories in the basement?

[rancid slate]

TWD?

Mill also has a basement

[azure bay]

fair but Laura was dead

and stolen

[rancid slate]

I would say The Lake needed her memories asap

But doesnt it happen a year later?

[azure bay]

it seemingly does

unless the time stopped

or Hotel probably simply didn't exist

[rancid slate]

When was the Hotel teaser added in Arles?

Originally

[azure bay]

Hotel was in Arles only since CEC

[rancid slate]

Dang

I think I will take "Lake waters were too dangerous to risk the 2 most important people we need"

Cabin's close enough to the land

[azure bay]

idk, there was a lot of risk involved regardless

[rancid slate]

What iff

Nah

Is the Elevator already in the bottom during Cave?

Hotel Elevator

It arrives, right?

[azure bay]

you rather need to be at the bottom to call the elevator there since the button is missing

but no problem calling it back to the main floors

[rancid slate]

Mmmmm

That explains Dale

Laura kinda too

But we dont know if she even needed an Elevator after Mill

Maybe just like the Hotel guests she can simply go there that easily

[rancid slate]

Is it possible the Vanderboom House was built on top of something else? Like "house built on top of cemetery" vibes

The house and the other structures were built somewhere between 1796 and 1839

With the exception of the Chapel

[rancid slate]

Hotel kinda already is that, but not fully "on top"

I guess the only thing beneath it could be the Well

Or it could still be there, intended to be used later

[rancid slate]

The basement having the gates, timepieces and the 3 pictures are a weird thing for me

Feels like it was made by someone who knew the future

Or the Seed that some kind of "known fate" and the pictures are illustrations of it

With Rose's exact appearence st being a coincidence

Can't say the same for the first one tho (The one with the Alchemist Brothers)

The Golden/Deva timepiece belonged to William

I think the skeleton could be his

Someone had to bury the body and we mostly only have three candidates for that

Aldous, James or William himself

It's possible James didn't know his name

So that's why there's a name there

But I don't think there's a sign?

I also think James could've finded his name when reading the journal, but that was some years later

So I guess it's not him

Besides that, the game shows that James clearly was sleeping at the moment

And there should be enough time for the body to go missing before James wakes up

Aldous is probably the best candidate

There isn't much against William himself

He remembers his name or atleast his face in 1919

Aldous probably does too.. but I think he always says "Brother" in Roots

Perhaps, burying it with no signs could an action of someone who can't control much themselves

Like a corrupted soul

Anyway

One of the brothers did it

[rancid slate]

The Silver/Asura belonged to Aldous

It's carefully kept inside a box in the House

LOVE as its password?

Considering you need Emma's letter

It's possible she found it before dying

Maybe.. if Frank broke it.. he could find his mom

Underground Blossom: Frank Edition

Where did she go?

[rancid slate]

Possibly left by Aldous inside the house

[rancid slate]

Or Emma found it during her search for Frank

I can't think much why Emma would keep the Timepiece

Her letter also says we have to look in the stars

Maybe since Mr. Crow also appears, he put his timepiece inside the box

Took away Emma's original gift

[rancid slate]

The Bronze/Manusa belonged to Alexandra

The "normal one" out of the three

Manusa = Human

Found right next to the house

Considered Treasure

We don't know much about Alexandra

But if she didn't got enlightened, she surely is dead by this point

Either left or died

All three timepieces were kept somewhat hidden

Well, technically

The Golden one first appears inside a cabinet in the Uncle level

Which means

All of the three were kept atleast near the house

They probably could use them again

If not, why would William keep it?

We haven't seen them yet in SotL

But since they are painted

Either they already have it

Or the paintings know the future too, lol

Yes, I'm talking about you, Mr. Crow painting

The Timepieces imply the existence of the Gates

They could've been made after, sure

But why?

[rancid slate]

Atleast in the demo, only Aldous has the timepiece

It's possible they will get or find the other two during the game

Or maybe, they are already in the paintings with the gates

I think it would make more sense to not

And, since we only know the gates were used to the sacrifices stuff + rebirth..

Does that mean they are gonna help another CSoul? Or try to save someone from dying? Alexandra?

I think the story wouldn't be repeated in that way

The Timepieces might have another use

Not in the gates

Maybe something similar to UB

Or something entirely new

The three of them

[rancid slate]

Prob not, considering Laura needed to break it

Yapping section reminded me of this

[royal notch]

Thanks for the spoilers! /sarc

[rancid slate]

I mean.. 😄

[royal notch]

What about the thread then? You talked about paintings, years and events of the demo...

[rancid slate]

I believe most use the thread only on its first weeks of release

But sorry for spoiling some of it

The paintings were already shown before in #📯｜rl-announcements tho and at Gamescom too, technically

[royal notch]

Funny since the game hasn' t been fully released, the demo isn' t even on all platforms and players that like to enjoy their moments right at once at their fullest exist. But alright, guess i' ll just have to silence this channel like usual, when even a moderator doesn' t really pay attention.

[open grove]

Yeah literally 😅. The theory channel is literally made for spoilers like I feel like you need to know most things about the Lore to be making theories imo

[open grove]

Yeah I remember that!!

And it's in the official gamescom aftermovie on their youtube, so no its not really spoilers

[spice frigate]

Like the channel description says, there will be spoilers to oldest and newest games, thus it's important to thread carefully if you don't want to get spoiled. I'd recommend to first watch a playthrough or playing the game yourself if you can to enjoy theories channel. Even if the game hasn't released yet, our channel members are free to discuss theories even with demos.

[crimson abyss]

guys i don't know if this is the right channel but can please someone explain WHY in underground blossom we check the box 66 to find the key? i think is something i miss from the ARG BKM but i'm not sure

[rancid slate]

As far as I know it was just brute force. 66 could be related to 666/The Devil which is also related to Albert

[rancid slate]

Are there other moments where CSouls give things to other people?

(Talking about the one from Roots)

[azure bay]

Bob giving memories?

[rancid slate]

Kinda

Usually, CSouls are very related to balancing the susbtances so I think most of them would rather take away things rather than give

Mr. Rabbit for example

Technically, some could say William gives items too but atleast for him we know that he's still collecting the sacrifices for his rebirth

So I wonder if the other Roots CSoul could be giving masks to later collect something from the Vanderbooms

Balancing isn't mentioned in Paradise, right?

It is

1 the glorious day of the lake will come
2 one will find death the other enlightenment
3 enlightenment (wheel) the chosen one
4 the elixir of life and death (ingredients)
5 the extraction of the memories
6 the hungry ghost balance the substance of your past lives
7 our memories belong to the lake
8 the chosen one (owl)

So Caroline both consumed the Elixir and balanced her subtances with the cubes?

Idk anymore

In Cave:
Chapter 4: A higher consciouness Laura Vanderboom The reborn mind
Rusty Lake mental health and fishing
◇Let the cubes guide you◇
◇Balance the substance of your past lives◇
◇Create the elixir of life and death◇
◇Find enlightenment◇

Is this Seasons..?

It's the last chapter too

[rancid slate]

Paradox changes page 4 to be the deerskull and page 7 to be about the 3 cubes

TWD does mentions substances when Mr. Owl explains how they retrieve the dream memories but I think it's not about balancing

[azure bay]

hmmm

balancing is probably related to elixir creation

[rancid slate]

The Golden Cube one?

Cave

Or Paradise?

[azure bay]

at least Paradise since it's mentioned there. Could be related to CS in general tho

[rancid slate]

I think the Timepiece could be a substance

But there's no mention of it in UB

[rancid slate]

So it's possible Caroline got enlightened?

It's kinda what happens in Theatre and in Roots def

Tho William had the Tree thing

But it [the Tree] could be to just "keep track" of the baby as Zefie said in her video about the Wheel I think

[azure bay]

I don't think so

one dies, the other gets enlightened

[rancid slate]

Maybe once you balance you get to "decide" what do you do

[azure bay]

I think it's either about enlightenment or elixir creation

[rancid slate]

Using Seasons as an example and assuming the Juices are Substances, Laura kinda chooses to change her past

If Caroline had the choice, she prob chose to use her memories to do the Elixir, yeah

Still not too sure if Seasons also had the Elixie

[azure bay]

RL said there was elixir in Seasons

some form of it

[rancid slate]

Mono Elixir?

[azure bay]

or the one that consumed Rose

wdk

[rancid slate]

A mother and her child consuming the Elixir? That would never happen..

And I aint talking about Caroline and Jakob

/j

[rancid slate]

Maybe by 1981 they figured how to make the mono Elixir

Very fair

It enlightens people that are already dead

[azure bay]

Rose gave away her blossom. I think she sacrificed something

[rancid slate]

Mmmmmmm

Maybe

But it could be interesting if her sacrifice was something else that hasn't been showed yet

[azure bay]

I'd rather prefer consistency

but fuck me

golden cube of the future that never had to be golden

[rancid slate]

Hotel update in its 10th anniversary where the white cube is updated to be Golden instead

[rancid slate]

Yesterday I was watching someone play Roots and I remembered that Rose has the Deva sanskrit even in Albert's scheme to create her

So Im now wondering if somehow becoming a blossom tree could actually be Deva

Would imply Deva is quite common tho, yes

[royal notch]

Unless that is meant to be a blossomed tree, and Rose appears to be the only one.

[rancid slate]

"She can still blossom" implies other people can too

Even if in Laura's case we see Rose's blossom going to her

[rancid slate]

Anyway, this was just a thought

[royal notch]

No, i mean that Rose would still probably be the first, while the other dead trees might be the lowest stage.

[rancid slate]

Time does not exist in the Lake so there's no "first" /j

I believe the devs wouldnt show random blossom trees in the Lake just to show there were other people, many details of this type are often overseen

Sadly

[royal notch]

Are there other?

[rancid slate]

By that logic there is no Alexandra too

[royal notch]

I don' t understand, but i better quit now.

[rancid slate]

Ah, I thought you meant other blossom trees, my bad
I'll dm you later since the overseen stuff arent theory related

[glass finch]

Maybe her kid? (I’m new I could be infinitely wrong just wondering)