🤔｜theories

[raw swift]

I don't like or dislike it, it's just a different storytelling

[eager anvil]

I agree, it's unique

[eager anvil]

and btw, no reactions?

[thick acorn]

They have goals though. I'm not sure it's true that things happen and they are fine with it. They do things and then have to do other things depending on what occurs, even if they don't much reflect or emote

[vivid bridge]

I didn't say they didn't have goals

I just said they don't have hidden goals. The characters are all pretty surface level

[raw swift]

though the mistery still remains

the story isn't any less complex because of that

as i said, it's just a storytelling choice

[raw swift]

predict what albert will do in the next update/game correctly and i'll promptly agree with you

[vivid bridge]

he'll probably kill some people idk

Albert is the exception because he became so popular that the devs retconned his death and made him return

[thick acorn]

He was literally the one I brought up here

.

[thick acorn]

I mean I don't doubt you may be right. If Owl's goal is to find a new leader of the Lake(?) Is Crow's just to help him?

[vivid bridge]

I don't mean conflict as in conflict between characters. That stuff is just the basics of any story

[thick acorn]

Sure

But then is Crow just a faithful helper?

[vivid bridge]

yeah pretty much

basically what i'm saying is each character has one thing they do and they do that thing. Albert causes trouble. Crow helps Owl

They don't go beyond those traits

[thick acorn]

I think that's an internally consistent assumption, but it does require ignoring where this conversation started with his disobeying owl in mill

Which seems major to hardwave

[vivid bridge]

i'll give you that

that's a weird moment

[thick acorn]

The Vanderbooms of ambition seem to be agents of conflict. I think you have to build in some room for their aims to cause disruption across the lake

I think your reading is pretty consistent but I might argue that we don't know what Crow's goal/aim is

He's not the dedicated helper I don't think, that's Harvey

[vivid bridge]

Harvey was in like one game before suddenly being retconned into being alive again and being his dedicated helper

I feel like I need to take a break from this franchise. I've been so negative lately

[jade helm]

Is harvey the oldest character in RL? What do you guys think?

He appeared in paradise too right, in his bird form?

I wonder exactly when he gained immortality

Also.. can mr crow and mr owl also transform into a whole animal body like harvey?

And if he is the oldest… why he is under mr owl’s command? Wouldn’t he be mr owl’s superior??

[vivid bridge]

Harvey is a very mysterious character

[jade helm]

Indeed!

[vivid bridge]

Maybe he didn't achieve enlightenment until after Paradise

[jade helm]

Yes maybe.. and there is one more problem about him. Normally “people” get enlightened by unifying with an animal…. But if he didn’t achieve enlightenment in paradise, then it means he was a “bird” at first.

[raw swift]

i wouldn't say it like that, some characters have a lot of room for development

that's why i brought up albert

[vivid bridge]

That's what i'm assuming

[jade helm]

So this time a bird achieved enlightenment via unifying with a human??

This is so weird

[vivid bridge]

a real chopper moment

[jade helm]

Like everything here

Maybe mr owl helped and directed him to enlightenment.. so he became mr owl’s servant/friend?

[thick acorn]

I think Harvey represents a cruder form of the Lake's powers than was achieved by Mr. Owl and Vanderboom et. al who used Harvey's egg

If Paradise is a cultic use of the Lake's powers, Owl represents attempting to create a science of the Lake, and helped the Vanderbooms construct their alchemy of the lake

[floral mauve]

actual possible approach

[jade helm]

I think so

👌🏻

[errant estuary]

theory: albert wouldve been a massive theatre actor if he did not become so hell bent on revenge

like, look at this man, he’s so dramatic and over the top, and i support that

[jade helm]

Definitely 😂

[dry sparrow]

Number 1 supporter: Rose

[hallow cape]

Also he has an affection for masks and associates it with seasons and stuff

[rancid slate]

As Samsara means "Cycle" and (UB Spoilers~) ||Laura breaks the Samsara timepiece||, it means she is ||breaking the cycle?||

[azure bay]

she breaks the "god" timepiece

but there were also "human" and "demigod"

[rancid slate]

Oh

Ok

I mentioned Samsara because in Roots, we place the timepiece where it is written "Samsara"

[azure bay]

there it all had a different meaning

3 stages

• alchemist bros
• a crow and a dead man
• samsara

meaning that the bros turned into the crow and the dead man

and then one of them was reborn as Laura due to samsara

[rancid slate]

Mr Crow reborn as a tree!!

Omg

[azure bay]

nah c:

[rancid slate]

Darn

[rancid slate]

But why would she break it?

[azure bay]

not sure. but it's somehow shown her way to The Lake

[sour brook]

Because you achieve Nirvana when you break the cycle of life

[rancid slate]

I still think that was William in control, somehow

[rancid slate]

Isnt Nirvana "unconfirmed"?

[azure bay]

exactly

[sour brook]

Basically being free

[rancid slate]

"The butterfly, I remember"
Has Laura ever interacted with butterfly/moth in the series? Besides that part in White Door

[azure bay]

I'm not sure anymore. Maybe we'll get a game that explains that. maybe not

[sour brook]

Except those occasional black lil ones, no ig

[rancid slate]

Albert Laura confirmed

👽

[sour brook]

That'd be chaotic

[rancid slate]

"I am your daughter.. and your dad! And your grandfather!!"

[sour brook]

Imagine bob dealing with albert

[sour brook]

XDD

[azure bay]

considering that Laura didn't seem to break the cycle for real, the freedom analogy looks far-fetched. To me it all looks more like an artifact serving its purpose

[rancid slate]

Imagine revived Albert has no brain

[rancid slate]

Many say that they belong to the Lake
But she says that the Lake belongs to her, maybe because she is now the one that will change everyone's fate, including Dale's

[sour brook]

Maybe she broke one part of the cycle (as in one timepiece)

Do y'all ever wonder about who made the og elixir of life?? because both Mr. Owl's family and Vanderboom family are trying to find the recipe. Maybe the lake belongs to that person or entity.

[azure bay]

she didn't seem to do anything more than William, Albert, Aldous or the Eilander and they never broke timepieces

[sour brook]

True

[azure bay]

and, again, the connection of "samsara" and timepiece is far-fetched on its own

[sour brook]

I don't think the timepieces themselves represent samsara

[azure bay]

the 1st we know of was Caroline

[sour brook]

But she found the recipe

Somebody must have made it

[azure bay]

no idea here

there were IRL medieval alchemists

maybe in RL universe they were more successful

at least to the extent that they knew for sure that the elixir is possible

[sour brook]

These irl emperors should've put their money there

[azure bay]

at most to have successfully produced it

[azure bay]

ye-ye

[rancid slate]

It was Rober Hill's family in 1000 before Christ

[sour brook]

In my opinion, they successfully produced it every time (in game) but didn't know the actual working principles of it. At least initially. But ig from rose's time they figured out how it works.

[rancid slate]

I think Elixir makes u go asura

[sour brook]

Or maybe they started a whole new process with reincarnation

[azure bay]

The devs said there are many forms of the elixir

and I'm not sure whether there was one in The Past Within

[sour brook]

+1

[azure bay]

unless it's the golden cube

but it wasn't consumed in the traditional way

heck, I'm not sure it was consumed at all

[sour brook]

Can't say for sure but it probably worked as a source of energy

[azure bay]

what did?

[sour brook]

But our doggo was fine

[sour brook]

The golden cube??

[rancid slate]

Omg imagine the Dog with a human body

[sour brook]

He'll be kawaii

We have so many talented artists here. How come nobody made it till now

[azure bay]

not really. The cube usage was clearly explain on the blackboard in the secret lab station in UB

2 cubes one inside another leading to each other

looping

[sour brook]

I forgor

[azure bay]

I don't see what would the energy be for

[rancid slate]

If Rose already had the cubical device, what was she doing from 60s to 80s?
Waiting decades just like Mr. Owl?

[sour brook]

To power the machine
Idk what I'm saying

[azure bay]

testing, adjusting, fixing errors

[azure bay]

the machine has nothing to do with her blossom

[sour brook]

The 1984 one is actually an updated version so she was certainly improving the existing one

[rancid slate]

I wish Harvey Run had somethin important

[sour brook]

How far have you gone??

[rancid slate]

I mean, RL Untold is important

But I was talkin about something in-game

[raw swift]

Untold isn't related to RHR

[thick acorn]

It's very hard to guess anything about the pre-Eilander lake. The only tenuous connection we have to a time before is Harvey existing in some form but that could be largely contemperaneous

[raw swift]

But well, as the Record holder (37k) i can assure you RHR is useless from a lore standpoint

[rancid slate]

I confuded the golden cube plush prize with the secret bedroom in the Lab :p

[raw swift]

It happens lol

[rancid slate]

Bruh I just noticed that she also says "The bee, I remember"

I know, it is like TPW

But does it have plot relevance?

[azure bay]

We don't know

[rancid slate]

[vivid bridge]

The insect is also tied to the blossom color

while TPW had a reason for the insect choice, in UB its completely random, so there must be some other meaning to it

My prediction is that there's gonna be something with the insect/blossom color in the game where Dale and Laura finally reach the Hotel and one of them becomes a funky animal person. Like if you're in the white/bee timeline, Laura becomes the deva while Dale wins in the pink/butterfly timeline

[rancid slate]

Mr. Deer

I imagine the Dale/Golden Cube arrive as a giant 3D game where we can walk through a whole setting like the Hotel with a lot of puzzles

But at the same time, no puzzles since the Paradox was already the test

[vivid bridge]

well puzzles are just kind of a thing in the universe of these games

I don't think there's an explanation on why everythings a puzzle

[rancid slate]

Bet the puzzles will be about the preparations of a ceremony

Or killing/capturing the corrupted souls

[rancid slate]

Yeah, the story is telled through it :)

[green fog]

do we know who this is at the bottom of the lake at all?

[vivid bridge]

Probably one of the people they harvested memories from

Owl and Crow seemingly take corpses pretty regularly and put them in the juicer

[green fog]

hmm you might be right

wait

[green fog]

like someone from the hundreds of tapes in underground blossom?

[vivid bridge]

No, the whole Best Kept Memories thing happens way later in the story

in The Mill, it is stated that the lake needs fresh memories and they take corpses to get those memories from them

What happened to Laura has happened to other people before, besides the whole elixir business

[sour brook]

Poor old lady got caught in the middle of this mess

[visual nimbus]

We agree that we're (in the game)dale vanderboom We are a detective and we are looking for who killed Laura vanderboom our little sister

[rancid slate]

I would say it can be the same from Harvey's Box, which can also be the Corrupted Soul of Miss Pigeon

[rancid slate]

Dale is a Vandermeer. He is not from Laura's family (Vanderboom)

[green fog]

i feel so stupid, dale is related?! i thought he was picked by mr owl

[green fog]

silly question, i’m just starting to get into theories, are the ‘animals’ in rusty lake hotel the family members?

like mr rabbit = the blond brother with the mask i forgot his name

[rancid slate]

If you are refering to the Eilander family, yeah, most likely yes

[green fog]

okay cool!

[barren cove]

If you mean Albert from Roots, probably no

[wheat ore]

I- Albert is blonde ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!??

[rich spire]

It's been a long since i dived into rusty lake lore so if someone could explain what is happening in the past within / underblossom (i played and finish both), it would be awesome !

[azure bay]

I'm on it

[rich spire]

Thanks !

[azure bay]

Somehow Albert knew he was to die and thus he invented a cubical device. I think it was initially unused cause otherwise the following events wouldn't normally happen.

Rose finished Roots and raised Laura until Albert's corrupted soul kidnapped her. She left Laura on Harvey and entrusted him her timepiece that was somehow to protect Laura who was left traumatized after losing her.

While Laura was growing up a loner, Rose started working at Best Kept Memory researching cubes, Albert's dark soul and trying to upgrade his cubical device. She managed to do it by 1984 when she grew old. She used the device to contact her past-self inside her memory cube. From the time when Albert was freshly dead. The cube was inside the device.

Past Rose has collected samples of Albert's tissues, summoned his dark soul and thanks to the voltage spike inside the future cubical device and the electrical sparkles it caused inside the cube said soul has created a golden cube with future old Rose inside. It was some kind of recursion, both cubes were inside each other at the same time.

Past Rose using Albert's cubical device prototype has sent her future-self Albert's tissues. Because old Rose's lab was inside a relatively small cube, Albert's ear, tooth and blood turned out big enough to recreate Albert's whole new body around his soul that previously kidnapped Rose.

So Albert was resurrected. He in The Future and his soul in The Past have told their respective Roses to "enter" the cubes in their possession at the same time which means sending their minds into their other-self's body. Since it was done simultaneously on both ends, their minds started repeatedly swap bodies faster and faster until they merged together, broke the loop and reached The Lake where time does not exist. That made them enlightened, they became a tree and started to blossom.

Back to Laura. When she met Bob, Rose's timepiece was stolen from Harvey (not sure how exactly because how it's shown in UB makes next to no sense). Laura's mental health started deteriating, she was prescribed Prozac, she was seeing nightmares about her past and her future. She saw the red forest at the lake's bottom, Dale, her mother being kidnapped and growing old.

Harvey tried to get back the timepiece but he failed and Laura could not take her loss of Rose anymore, took her life and turned corrupted. Harvey could help her only some time later when he finally retrieved the timepiece. It was shattered but it did it job (whatever it was) and Laura's soul took Hervey to The Lake where they find Roses and their tree. Roses shared their blossom with Laura (or did whatever the blossom represents) and she's suddenly alive, knows that Rose is for her (and thus is not depressed anymore) and she's ready to live another life with no sorrow. The lake belongs to her (whatever it means). Harvey goes on with his life (probably returns in time to work for Owl and help him with Dale).

[rich spire]

Thank you wery much ! Reading all this right now

[rich spire]

Does a person needs to be « good » to enlight ? It’s for an oc

[azure bay]

nope

[covert wyvern]

I think that question can be answered with are there any good people in RL

(but especially if it's for an OC; you do you)

[azure bay]

Dale, Bob, Sarah

[covert wyvern]

[rich spire]

Albert (joke)

[floral mauve]

Sarah is not pure good, she might be on a redemption path

[sour brook]

Who's Sarah again??

[zinc sentinel]

Nurse in white door iirc

[sour brook]

Okie

Details of Twd has kinda become blurry
Maybe it's time to contact best kept memory

[rancid slate]

TWD and BKM stuff are my least favorite tbh

[rich spire]

Bkm ?

[rancid slate]

Best Kept Memory

[rich spire]

Wait it's a game ?! I only remeber it from ub

[rancid slate]

No no no

It is an ARG

You can find more about it in #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg

I like ARGs tho, I just dont like the modern settings and stuff

[raw swift]

You're in RL and you're good

[errant estuary]

no, and they dont even have to know what is happening to them, as evidenced by the dog

[thick acorn]

How do you mean "good"? Like good as we would describe being in accordance with a Western/Christian ethic?

[thick acorn]

Is the dog enlightened?

[rancid slate]

I think it would be morally good

[rancid slate]

In Roots, James test the elixir with the dog, he dies and the dog lives forever

[thick acorn]

I think in RL the concept of immortality and enlightenment are separate. Especially since we don't know if the elixer produces true immortality or not (Mr. Owl for instance expects that his time will soon come)

[thick acorn]

I think that you must be in accordance with the logic of the Lake and the cycle of rebirth, which might be in conflict with "traditional" notions of goodness. Depends how much of a relativist u are

[rancid slate]

Well, the dog aged nothing

[thick acorn]

Yes the dog certainly recieved a type of immortality, but I don't think that's synonymous with the enlightenment discussed in the series

[rancid slate]

Corrupted Mr. Rabbit mentions that the only way to enlight was by killing Dale's parents

[thick acorn]

Others might have more insight but I understood his letter to mean that Dale's family was collateral damage as Mr. Rabbit secured the "substance" that would allow him to escape the cycle

[rancid slate]

Oh, mb

I would say enlightened = immortal
Pretty sure "immortal" as an adjective is never used in the series

It would be the same as refering to black cubes instead of bad memories

While all "enlightened" we have seen had to drink the elixir, I would say thats the artificial/cheated way

Since Rose also says that she is enlightened, I would say she is a "natural" enlightened

That didnt had to drink the elixir

.
Harvey, Bat and Toad are still a mystery too

[vivid bridge]

Rose's enlightenment isn't really the same thing as the elixir animal stuff

they just use the same term because rusty lake loves to use the same phrases over and over, even when they're not actually the same thing

see "balance your past substances" in Roots

[azure bay]

that's likely a misconception. The dog lives as long as the elixir is in its body. But it clearly leaves bit by bit and gives prolonged live to those who reconsume it

[azure bay]

doesn't look like it

[azure bay]

he said, "to escape his state" which I assume to be corrupted. Although William being reborn as Laura in Samsara Room is called enlightenment too

[azure bay]

The devs said that Bat and Toad used to be humans

[azure bay]

arguably

[vivid bridge]

I was thinking

We always compare Mr. Rabbit becoming one with the tree and the two Roses becoming a tree

but have we talked about Corrupted Pheasant in the theatre play growing a pink flower out of her mouth after balancing her shit?

Plus there's the comparison between her and Harvey and Memory!Rabbit's death with the white beams of light

[rich spire]

I have a question, in ub Laura says she will rules the lake but in paradox, not only mr owl says it's up to Dave to become the ruler of the lake but also Dave and Laura speaks and she kinda admits that he'll be the ruler. Might be wron though

[azure bay]

I don't think it's the same

First of all, there are ladies of the lake (Caroline and, according to the devs, Laura) and there are factual rulers of the lake.

Then, Laura never said the's either of those. She said "the lake belongs to me" which could mean whatever with the info at hand.

Finally, even if Laura is any of those, that takes place either outside the time (time does not exist in The Lake), or about a decade after Paradox or in a different timeline.

[vivid bridge]

well thats what you think

I think the ending of UB is pre-cave

[azure bay]

that simply makes no sense if you dig deeper

that's not what she says

[vivid bridge]

its ub, none of it makes sense

[azure bay]

that's a poor excuse

[rich spire]

Wait, there are different timelines ?

[azure bay]

from UB synopsis: "[...]find the correct metro to board and uncover one of Laura’s timelines, while simultaneously helping her make sense of her life and escape the corruption of her mind!"

[rich spire]

Wow i didn't knew, then ub is alone in it's timeline with tpw ? So in the original timeline, albert never came back to life ?

[azure bay]

not exactly, I think

[vivid bridge]

I'll wait til the next game to make judgement about the canonicity of those games

[azure bay]

TPW makes me think that every cube is a timeline

[floral mauve]

it is

[vivid bridge]

debatable

[floral mauve]

but the problem would be

[rich spire]

I don't think, Laura is clearly still corrupted in the cave, where at the end, she isn't

[floral mauve]

whats the point of the lake inside the lake inside the lake inside the lake inside the lake

[rich spire]

Every cube ? Black, golden, blue ? I don't understand

[floral mauve]

RL blackhole would be a certain thing

[azure bay]

there's no the lake inside the lake inside the lake, there's the lake where time does not exist

[vivid bridge]

yeah, that's why I said i'll wait til we see the next game. Cause either UB just completely retcons everything OR it just doesn't matter and we can comfortably ignore it

[floral mauve]

no, like the cube inside the lake would contain a lake

which seems like the same lake

that contains cubes

[azure bay]

it's the same lake

[rich spire]

Wich cubes ?

[azure bay]

the lake is the only constant

[vivid bridge]

I don't think we've ever actually seen a cube that has the lake as a setting inside it?

I don't count Arles

[azure bay]

Hotel

[vivid bridge]

mmmm

I guess

but that memory is of the lake

but then that would be a memory, not the lake

[azure bay]

The golden one made by Albert yes, the one made by Crow not sure, the blue one definitely no. I'm speaking more of black and white ones

[azure bay]

if you can encounter Rose tree in the lake before 1984, you can arguably witness Dale's elevator ride before 1972

[vivid bridge]

what i'm saying is that if every version of the lake is the real lake, then there can't be a memory version of it. Like the cube at the end of hotel is more just a teleportation cube rather than a memory/prediction?

[azure bay]

in my paradigm every cube is like that

[rich spire]

I always thought black and white cube were memories, black representing the bad ones and the white the good ones

[vivid bridge]

it all depends on how you view those cube memories. Nowhere believes that the memories extend past the room we see in each game, like every cube has its own world inside it

I don't quite believe it

[azure bay]

we already have The Lab and the Vanderboom house

[vivid bridge]

and?

[azure bay]

their depiction in TPW doesn't correspond other games. And yet in TPW The Lab is a fusion of several rooms

[vivid bridge]

using the past/future rooms as evidence is pretty weak since the cubical devices change how memories work. So even if memories are usually a whole world, the devices restrict them to the cube room

[azure bay]

and it's not "I just remember it like that"

it's not even a memory in a traditional sense

[rich spire]

I need to replay tpw, i am lost here

[vivid bridge]

yeah sorry

what were we talking about before this?

[azure bay]

For 1, TPW has shown them already more real and objective than "just memories"

For 2, we have Laura spent 17 years inside a cube with no food shortage. It has to go beyond that room.

For 3, that's unlikely a time travel. Rose escaping to The Lake in The Past would prevent her doing the same in The Future as well as Laura's birth

[rich spire]

Sorry, i didn't want to sound rude

[azure bay]

I don't think you were rude

[rich spire]

Ah ok

In what game laura spent 17 yeard old in a cube ?

[azure bay]

in the ending of Seasons

she purified herself in spring 1964 and then we see her alive and happy in winter 1981

[vivid bridge]

its debatable

the cube memory might just skip ahead or maybe there's no hunger in cubes

[azure bay]

then what's the point?

[vivid bridge]

I think its strange how you debate about the cube worlds going on outside the cube but then talk about the ending of Seasons where we see just a white void outside the cube

[azure bay]

the void is seen only by the outside mind as it leaves the cube

because otherwise you see no boundaries

[vivid bridge]

I don't think it even matters that much

Again, how did we even get to this discussion again

[azure bay]

besides, Laura's arc is to fight depression and live her life. Being episodically confined within 4 walls doesn't qualify and isn't even worth the effort

[azure bay]

via timelines

via the lake belonging to Laura

[vivid bridge]

I don't like calling them that. Cause that implies, like, timetravel and stuff like that

the whole cube thing is more of a multiverse I guess

[azure bay]

the devs are using this language, we can just deal with it

[vivid bridge]

I swear, when I get my hands on those devs

[rich spire]

Just, where was the first mention of timelines in the games ?

[vivid bridge]

I don't think its ever mentioned in the games. They call it that in the description of UB

[covert wyvern]

.mute @vivid bridge 24h don't make that joke again.

[sweet zephyr]

ellesian was muted.

[covert wyvern]

@rich spire you can join them? if you'd like?

it's not funny.

another threat no matter how jokey will get you banned @vivid bridge. I cannot make myself more clear.

[azure bay]

yet they used the terms like "time traveller" and "butterfly effect" in their achievements

[rich spire]

No,sorry

I was reacting to the ban

Not to the threath

[covert wyvern]

and I was telling you you shouldn't.

lets focus on theories:)

[rich spire]

I'm sorry, i won't d that again

[rich spire]

In that game ? I have zero memory about this

[azure bay]

time traveler was in Birthday and Butterfly Effect in Paradise

[rich spire]

For me, time traveler in birthdy, was more because of the blue cube but for paradise, i must redo the game

[azure bay]

in Paradise you just click on a butterfly

[rich spire]

Isn't that a joke/reference ?

[azure bay]

still, it's the terminology

[azure bay]

blue cubes look like the purest form of time travel within the timeline

[rich spire]

In the cave, only the blue cubes are mentionned when talking about the time travel, where the black cube is defined as face your demons if i remember it well

[azure bay]

⬜ Relive your past lives
⬛ Face your demons
🟦 The past is never dead and isn't even past
🟨 Memories are not only key to the past but also to the future

However these phrases need context to be understood correctly

normally when you enter black/white cubes you just relive their events

usually they are from your past

If you happen to get our hands on a blue cube you can rollback

and a golden one is complicated

[rich spire]

I always though the golden one could travel to the future

[azure bay]

in The Cave it was presented like a form of elixir. Like it isn't supposed to contain the future but rather to make happen things that are meant to happen.

Only in TPW it was literally The Future cube

[rich spire]

i means that's my headcanon at least

I don't remember tpw at all, ws it in the future run ?

[azure bay]

the golden cube was created in The Past to containg The Future

also, a cube doesn't have to be golden to contain the future. In Hotel white cube did just fine

[rich spire]

Wich one ? I swear i'm going to redo all the game i can

[royal notch]

Reading this made me think another possibility.

To consider that final cube a regular one.

[azure bay]

in the ending. The 1st time "not only past but also future" phrase was used. It was a prophecy cube about Dale that Owl and Harvey were working for in that game, the reason why the guests had to die.

[rich spire]

Just thought about it:

I know ub is more of a allegory to represents Laura's life but we see character we never see outside of this game. Then, how they can stay calm while harvey is in in anhtro form ?

[royal notch]

The most accepted idea is what you just said: being a metaphorical game, the events don't really make sense in the 1° place.

[azure bay]

I imagine it like a theater play and they just play their roles. So has to be Harvey. His anthro form makes no sense.

[royal notch]

If there's no time in the Lake, that cube could just be a classic memory containing an anticipated vision, like in UB.

[azure bay]

like what in UB?

[royal notch]

The tree, for example.

[azure bay]

you mean in the end?

or in the album?

[royal notch]

No, in the end. We witness something not happened yet.

[azure bay]

time does not exist in Rusty Lake

I s'pose it's as if the tree was always there

[royal notch]

I know, that's the whole point!

I was saying: "What if the white cube in the hotel is just a regular memory containing an anticipated vision from the bottom of the Lake?"!

It's now a possibility to see the future!

[azure bay]

the problem is, Roses in The Lake are not a vision. They are actually there

[royal notch]

So is Dale's ascension. Just not at that time.

Oh, wait, i got what you mean.

But while that tree is a thing, an identical one is Laura's ascension. Also that one isn't chronologically correct.

[azure bay]

that's the thing. I assume there's just no chronology in the lake. Or at least it works differently

[royal notch]

I agree here. I was giving an opinion about the future cube dilemma.

[rancid slate]

Thats because in the Cave, the game ends when Dale goes up with the Golden Cube. While in UB, we see what happens right after Dale goes up

Imo, Blue Cubes do not change the events that happened. They change your memory. So, Laura now believes that she is alive, and thats why, well, she is alive :b We get a better explaination in UB, ofc, but I wont retell everything cuz yall know.

The UB ending (Laura blossom) doesnt happen physically, but in her mind (Just as in Seasons) While she is physically in the Cave ending

.
But following this logic, I dont think it would be possible to Laura have a new life without sorrow 💀💀💀

So I'll just wait for mode Rusty Lake adventures

[azure bay]

UB isn't about Laura's mind. It's about her life albeit dealing in metaphors. Besides, now Rose is envolved and she means business. "It's just in her head" excuse doesn't stand anymore

besides, TPW has proven that cubes are not just memories

although not in a way you would imagine, they can freaking change the reality

[rancid slate]

Thats the part where I said "We get a better explaination in UB, ofc, but I wont retell everything (Refering to Rose's part) cuz yall know"

[azure bay]

I seem not to

what about Rose?

[rancid slate]

She helped Laura

[azure bay]

yep, so why would Laura mistakenly believe that she's alive?

[rancid slate]

☝️😭

Thats the "better explaination" I am talkin about

[azure bay]

Can you please explain everything as if I were an idiot please? I struggle to compile your ideas

[rancid slate]

Mmmmmmm

Mmmmm

Maybe?

[rancid slate]

CE Seasons is one of the first games, it introduce us to Laura, her death, the Blue Cube and how it can change what happens
By using it, you are able to go to your past memories and change them. By doing it and going to where it all begun (Spring 1964) We are able to "kill" the shadowy figure in the mirror, revealing that it was Laura all along. So, in the future, we can see that Laura is alive yay (Also, the tree has no flowers/blossom)

The Blue Cube is seen again in CE Birthday, being used to go back in time and prevent the death of Dale's parents. It also turns that bad memory (Black Cube) in a White Cube

But, in both cases, they changed something of the past, while in reality, it all stays the same..

When we get to CE The Cave, we see Laura being kept in the bottom of the Lake, with Dale, while a machine is connecting their heads. This is where CE Seasons would take place in Laura's pov. As her memories were extracted in CE The Mill and they belong to the Lake now, we can imagine that she is revisiting everything and trying to prevent her death and other bad events (For example, the encounter with a corrupted soul in The Lake)

While we would theorize about she just having depression, we didnt really knew the reason. Until the release of Underground Blossom

In UB, we see her life, from when she was just a baby, up to her death and blossoming. We also see more of her mother, Rose, that give Harvey the timepiece. After Rose leave Laura, the only that Laura has of her mom is the photos and the timepiece, that is lost in the 1960s, aka before/next to Spring 1964, in Seasons. Connecting the points (And also her biggest question during the dream section in Sorrow Cross "Where did she go?"), we can understand that the sudden disappearence of her mom and the lost of her timepiece contributed a lot for Laura's depression. Which resulted in her death.

In chapter 6 and 7, Laura, now dead as a corrupted soul, gets the timepiece back and goes to the Lake, where she remembers the Tree. The same tree from her photo, the same tree that appears in the window of her house, the same tree from when she was born, in RL Roots. But different from CE Seasons, the tree has now flowers. This is due to TPW ending, where Past and Future Rose merge together and their soul blossom. And now, they are here again, in UB, they say that Laura can still live a happy life and blossom, going to the tree again and making the flowers fly away to Laura's direction. "I can finally see the blossom", says Laura, now uncorrupted. She disappears flicklering into the Lake and the game ends.

By getting all post-game cubes and putting them in a corrected order, we see the same place from CE The Cave, with Laura alive yay. By connecting CE Seasons and UB, we can agree that they are slightly similar, as both end with Laura happi, so uhh thats it I think

Oh yeah, one last thing

Both Blue Cubes were used in 1972, right at the (current) end of the story. So, even "If Laura never died, Dale would never be there, etc" and "Dale would probably not become a detective if his parents died". We still havent seen the effects of it in reality

Far as I remember it right, it wasnt confirmed if Rose knows if Laura died or not. (In the same way that we see Bob watchin her death being announced in the tv)

And, depending of which TWD ending, Bob no longer knows about Laura

[visual nimbus]

I love your determination 🤣

[rancid slate]

What I am trying to say is that Blue Cubes could actually have changed the events and we just dont know yet because we just dont know yet because we just dont know yet 💥💥

[visual nimbus]

So no one die?

[rancid slate]

Idk

Has BKM mentioned Laura's death?

[visual nimbus]

Expect the corrupted soul

I think Laura will always die but we will always save her

[visual nimbus]

And the golden cube?

[rancid slate]

The one in TPW?

Or the one in Cave/Paradox, etc?

They seem to be the key to the future

[rancid slate]

I still gotta replay TPW tho

My theory is that the dog will appear and eat the golden cube, he will turn golden and say "It's me, the Cube Escape!" Everyone will scream and run, so it will start a Run <Person> Run minigame of every character of the series and thats how everything ends

Truly, it was a Cube Escape

[royal notch]

This may be not too farfetched, actually. If escaping the reality requires an interaction between past and future, the hotel bois have already the key. Though it's not clear why they didn't create a golden cube in the 1° place like in TPW.

Perhaps the tech wasn't ready yet, but the cubical device is finished already in 1969 and seems to only need some testing... Would it be normal to make tests on the same cube for 15 years?

[azure bay]

Thx for a lengthy answer. I have to disagree on a bunch of points:

1. You can go to your past memories even without a blue cube. Like in Arles and Theatre

2. I don't think it's justified connecting Laura's tree to Rose. It blossoms only in spring like any normal tree

3. It wasn't the blue cube that changed the memory but Dale's actions. Or rather Mr. Owl giving him such opportunity.

4. We don't know the exact date of the timepiece loss but I'd bet on after 1964, It's less likely that Bob and Laura would date for 5 years with no further progress aka marriage.

5. If you think that 2 Roses actually merged together then you think both of them are real, therefore The Past cube has to be real too (because it's where Albert's substances come from and Albert is real), therefore every other cube has to be real.

6. The endings of UB are likely out of order. For 1, in the blossom ending Laura says her mother is there for her but in the elevator ending she still asks "where did she go". For 2, in blossom ending she says she's ready to live another life with no sorrow yet in the elevator ending she ascends to play a deadly elixir lottery and she'll likely won't survive it (actually the opposite from what she says). For 3, Laura's resurrection after The Cave was definitely planned for by Owl but it has no way to be thanks to the blossom. Owl simply has no idea about Rose and can't weave her into his plans. As we said many times before, time does not exist in The Lake, Harvey doesn't have to see its events in chronological order especially considering that afterwards he goes back in time to work for Owl again at the hotel.

7. I can agree on Dale seeing Paradox in The Cave but Seasons are nothing like that. They are more like Bday and Theatre, cubes floating in The Lake you need to actually enter, not a constructed dream. Besides, the latest date in Seasons is 1981 meaning that most likely they actually take place not long after that date, 9 years after 1972 of The Cave.

_ _
And that's "another life without sorrow", 1964-1981 all over again inside a cube that is just as real as The Past in TPW

[rancid slate]

1. I know, I was more foccused in "change them" than "able to go to your past memories" :b Accidentally madr it look like you need a Blue Cube to acess the other memories, my bad

2. Oh, I forgot that the game is named "Seasons" 💀💀 Usually, here in North Brazil, all trees are the same in all seasons, so yeah :b

3. I mean, the Blue Cube being put in the clock literally made it go back in time. Yes, Dale still needed to act, but you get what I am saying, right?

4. Agreed. I actually thought after I wrote and forgot to edit the message

5. Uuuhhh what

6. That makes more sense now. I forgot the "Where did she go?" line played in that scene

7. Then what is happening to her in that moment in your opinion? Mr. Crow said "She's ready" like if there was a preparation.. so.. another game..? Maybe?

@azure bay

Forgot to use the reply thing

[azure bay]

5. We have The Past Within where supposedly real Future 1st changes the memory Past but later on it thnrows a uno reverse card and changes The Future in return.

Basically 2 Roses 1st collect bone flesh and blood in the memory, then they pass it into the supposedly real Future and use it to create supposedly real Albert who years later attacks Chad Brunswick.

Roses, in their turn, escape to The Lake, blossom and eventually help Laura.

Since there are real causes and effects, both The Past and The Future have to be equally real. They don't have to share a timeline but we owe them at least that.

7. The devs owe us a game about Dale and Laura at the hotel since 2015, Over the years they were giving us more and more context. The elevator, the elixir of life and death, the golden cube, the day of the lake, one will die the other will find enlightenment, Owl in need of a successor, Dale VanderDeer. It all comes to that.

[rancid slate]

Need a game about the entire life of that one nameless pollice officer that Bob killed

[azure bay]

who knows, RL were seemingly teasing something Case 23-related via Second Maze

[carmine field]

Is this recent? I don't remember lol

[azure bay]

Not really

2 years since the 1st supposed teaser (the roadmap)

[carmine field]

oh, the roadmap

[raw swift]

Road map?? What is it??

[azure bay]

in RL's case a cryptic image with past achievements and future teasers. The problem is, sometimes it's hard to tell which one is what

[raw swift]

Ah

[vivid bridge]

mammoth game never

[rancid slate]

<@&358613639554400258>

[pure rose]

.ban @valid osprey scam

[sweet zephyr]

shizii9415 was banned.

[pure rose]

Thanks!

[azure bay]

A peculiar detail. Laura used to be the only true Vanderboom (which translates of the tree). She literally came from a tree.

Now we have Rose who literally became a tree

[vivid bridge]

I guess

dale didn't come from the lake, though

[hallow cape]

I think of rose more of as a guardian of the tree

[azure bay]

We've seen them actually turning into the tree.

[vivid bridge]

Did Bob talk when he was corrupted?

[floral mauve]

I dont remember

maybe not

why does it matter

[vivid bridge]

Sp and me were talking about corrupted souls in #🩸｜general-chat

Caroline and Albert talk

while William doesn't

[floral mauve]

ehm

hbt Laura

[vivid bridge]

hmm

[rancid slate]

She talks in UB

[vivid bridge]

yeah

[rancid slate]

Not in the Mill

[vivid bridge]

but UB is UB

[floral mauve]

oh true

soul station

[vivid bridge]

I don't know if we can trust UB with anything

[floral mauve]

but she legit asked Harvey to help her

which in reality I dont think it ever occured

though which is the reality

[rancid slate]

Does Mr. Rabbit talks in Paradox?

[errant estuary]

tbh in my mind, a corrupted soul’s ability to speak is based on how disrtessed/stable it is

[floral mauve]

like before in the normal timeline, Harvey is like stabbed to death

[rancid slate]

But Harvey is alive in the Mill

[errant estuary]

caroline seems kind of at peace despite everything as a corrupted soul

she’s accepted her fate

[floral mauve]

true which was used as an evidence of Seasons has been progressed

but then UB didnt mention any of that

funny innit

[vivid bridge]

Rabbit talks in Paradox but that game is also not reflective of the actual world

[floral mauve]

Laura has 0 plan in UB except golden timepiece which wasnt a thing, it is under the lake

[vivid bridge]

i'm also not sure if David is actually corrupted in Birthday/Paradox. Stupid whiskers...

[floral mauve]

we dont even know how it broke and how it helped her

[rancid slate]

Imo, the simple reason to not hear the corrupted soul speaking is because there was no voice actors for all characters back in the day

And also, William does not talk mostly because we play as him :b (I know, Mr. Crow and Dale also talk when we play as them)

[vivid bridge]

true true

[floral mauve]

nah, they can just use crow voice

the reverse technique was already a thing

[vivid bridge]

crow's voice becoming the CS voice is really funny

the devs really just be making stuff up as they go along

[rancid slate]

They dont talk cuz they dont want to 🗣🗣🗣

[vivid bridge]

William is shy...

[rancid slate]

👉👈 pls could u help me to get 10 sacrifices?

[floral mauve]

he doesnt want other ppl to overhear him

[vivid bridge]

They should make a deaf character who talks through sign language

i'm sure you can make a puzzle out of that

[rancid slate]

Imagine everyday a black thing talks to everyone in your family asking for sacrifices

[floral mauve]

I dont remember but I think no one in roots ever saw William?

if you exclude some gameplay stuff

like Ida

[vivid bridge]

I mean, they must see him because you do everything for them

[rancid slate]

I dont think William helped Albert to fertilize an egg

[floral mauve]

I doubt like no one is gonna let an invisible something deliver the baby or bathe Frank

[floral mauve]

homie passes the cup

[rancid slate]

I mean, James used Mary's blood to write a marry me letter..

[vivid bridge]

romantic

why won't anyone send me a letter written in their my blood

[errant estuary]

corrupted souls going nonverbal

[floral mauve]

kinky

[rancid slate]

We don't talk about Bruno (William)

[vivid bridge]

Again, they regularly see animal people and other shadowy figures

this one ghost who shows up once every few years is not that special

[rancid slate]

I imagine him just walking around the house without resting

"I didn't know he was chill like that"

[errant estuary]

haunted william sould that drinks all your pepsi and calls you a bitch

$500.95

[azure bay]

Talking Laura is not something out of ordinary. I see no reasons to doubt it.

And yes, dark Bob technically talked.

At least in Bob's hallucinations and dreams

[azure bay]

Corrupted souls are seemingly voiced by one of the devs. Maarten if I'm not mistaken

[azure bay]

I think it was originally Laura's voice in Seasons

[azure bay]

Ida likely did, she made a prediction for him

[vivid bridge]

The voice came from the phone, which in the first year of games was always associated with Crow, being his voice on the phone in Case 23 and even repeating those exact phrases in The Mill

well

[azure bay]

don't make me go through the reasons why it's Laura again

[vivid bridge]

Okay it was Laura in seasons but it was retconned immediately

[azure bay]

I'm sure we've been through this and you agreed

[azure bay]

I wouldn't be so sure about it

after all, this voice is universally associated with CS

[vivid bridge]

nowadays

pre-hotel it was crow

[azure bay]

pre-crow it was Laura

[vivid bridge]

in like one game and again, I feel like they retconned it. Otherwise they wouldn't have put Crow on the phone

they clearly wanted to connect those two moments

[azure bay]

I disagree. Not all the lines match. Laura never spoke of the lake and memories, Crow never said a thing about the past not being dead and looking for him in the past

To me it more looks like they just reused the fancy spooky effect with no second thought

and only then decided to keep it more for CS

and still there were few more occasions of Crow speaking CS-ish

all linked to the mill phone number

If they really wanted to retcon Seasons phone, they would probably stick to Mr. Crow

[vivid bridge]

yeah idk

on a different note

how is Rose able to extract a black cube from herself while not only living but also not corrupting

[rancid slate]

Cuz its not a 100% chance of cprruption

In the letter by Mr. Owl, he uses "may cause"

Not "will cause"

[azure bay]

and you don't even have to die for them to be extracted.

Bob, TWD escapees, BKM clients

[royal notch]

I can't help it but i'm conviced that only a total memory extraction leads to corruption, and not even as a sure consequence.

[azure bay]

BKM warns that memory extraction may cause corruption and they always extract a small amount

[royal notch]

The archaic question: are ARGs canon?

[azure bay]

They are

no reasons not to be

they are based on in-game events or have in-game consequences

and even if they were not, why the heck would the devs leave that warning if they didn't mean it?

[royal notch]

Fun; easter eggs; universe-tieing. Besides, we have never seen a case on these ARGs. But what do you mean with the in-game consequences? What did i miss❓

[floral mauve]

you sure its not gameplay element like I mentioned? In reality it could be Ida passed by town, showed some tarrot tricks to the vanderbooms, hooked up with Samuel, some wholesome family time

[azure bay]

She went far beyond. Their death, Frank in the well, Frank looking for his mother, Mr. Crow, the rebirth.

[azure bay]

a whole secret station?

[royal notch]

Is it enough to canonize it? We have hundreds of scrolls in TPW, but we don't have a connection between the game and the ARG.

[floral mauve]

there is still little evidence showing this is dedicated for William though, if its gameplay element, those could be for us to see, foreshadowing

[azure bay]

It is. And scrolls are just another form of puzzles. You don't say that other games aren't canon because they have puzzles

[floral mauve]

unless you assume Ida automatically knows everything everyone's identity without any further questions

[azure bay]

Only white crystal ball images were gameplay, they were used in a puzzle. Red crystal ball foreshadowing is not gameplay. I do believe she's shown all that and William was the only one who'd get them.

Even Ida may have not understood what she was showing. Or she's a fatalist

[royal notch]

Using the example of the scrolls: people had to solve puzzle in-game to get them, so they are part of it. They must be used in real life in the website, outside of it. We used in-game informations to a whole different plan of reality. Even if a part of the ARG is inside a game, that doesn't necessarily canonize its entirety. Because then also the scrolls would have to. I'm unsure if i succeded in being clear enough.

[azure bay]

Again, these are gameplay elements that don't affect the lore.

In normal games you too have to do a lot of nonsensical stuff to get mcguffins yet that doesn't mean these mcguffins aren't canon

@royal notch

[royal notch]

I'm here. But we have not seen consequences on the games from the ARG.

It could also be for the time span.

[azure bay]

We literally have a secret level that refers to an ARG

[royal notch]

We literally have pieces of paper with weird simbols referring to the same ARG.

Which can't have a meaning whitout going outside of the game.

[azure bay]

Are you serious comparing puzzles to whole locations with characters and events?

[royal notch]

I am serious as we have puzzles to get uncanon achievments.

[azure bay]

I repeat. A bit of gameplay never decanonized bigger parts that make sense

BKM center is in the game. It's playable, it tells a little story

It refers to canonical events

So is the website

So are documents

Even if it's not canon, there's no need to invent special uncanon rules specially for that

But, again, it is. It has no reason not to

[royal notch]

The fact that the basement of TWD is accessible in the game, then, would canonize the entirety of that ARG. Alright, then every single bit of the whole story has happened and it's just being told in the form of videogames.

[azure bay]

Exactly. Even some in-game parts turn out to be inaccurate when you have something else to compare them to

Paradox is a good example

All 3 vials have to be accessible to Dale every time in the end

He's meant to make a choice

Yet for narrative reasons this choice is reduced to a single vial the devs need to show in a certain ending

[royal notch]

Basically there's the possibility of an endgame where Maarten and Robin would reveal themselves as enlighteneds and reveal their whole society to the rest of the world.

With the games being a slow preparation.

[azure bay]

A in ARG stands for alternate. It's not "our reality", its "our reality, but..."

[barren cove]

The puzzles, like finding the black cubes, are not cannon. The lore is

I mean the ARG

[royal notch]

I'll keep waiting for an official game about these corporation. It won't be enough for me as long they stay in the achievments sections.

[azure bay]

I think it is canon. Some patients left with them and that looks like a legit reason to get them back

[azure bay]

We already have them. TWD, TPW and The Lab

[royal notch]

Again, achievments. I would really get something directly accessible.

[barren cove]

TWD is directly accessible, if I remember correctly

[azure bay]

Dude. We literally have a game about The White Door and Rose literally worked at BKM

[barren cove]

And it obviously has the same organization in it

[royal notch]

Just Bob's story.

[azure bay]

And so?

[royal notch]

We can't say that yet.

[barren cove]

That has the whole corporation trying to extract his memories. You can find it out without the ARG

[azure bay]

We can, they have the exact same decor, same tech and BKM has Rose's memory tape

[royal notch]

It isn't tied to the rest of the ARG. The game is presented as a story about him, the basement is an extra.

[barren cove]

Any normal player can find it without ever looking up anything online

[azure bay]

You said you wanted games about these companies, you said nothing about the basement

[barren cove]

Or is the hotel UB ending not cannon because it's an achievement?

[royal notch]

I'm talking about a surface level! Once i get an actual story about them, i can accept it. But for now they are for me at the same level of Harvey's presence at Paradise.

[azure bay]

Are you saying TWD doesn't exist?

[royal notch]

[azure bay]

"No" would suffice

[royal notch]

I'm saying that eveything coming from ARGs MAY not be canon.

TWD at a SURFACE LEVEL would be real. No doubts.

But the rest is discovered from informations that don't come from the game itself.

[barren cove]

What is surface level? Anything that does not require out of the game information?

[royal notch]

Exactly how the game is meant to be played. Without secrets.

[barren cove]

I think finding secrets is an integral part of the RL experience. The games would not be full without them

[royal notch]

It's indeed extra fun and i like that too, but there's the possibility of them not being revelant. Otherwise the devs would directly tell us them through a direct game.

[azure bay]

Only it's much bigger than "just an achievement".

What you are doing is cutting off some big sources of juicy lore that contradicts nothing so far. For no reason

Rose works at BKM, there can be no doubt. The estetics, the research field, Rose's tape. Directly in a game

[barren cove]

Also, all the games literally tell you "go find secrets". Is the secret level from Roots "possibly not cannon" now?

[royal notch]

Not that one. But can you make a sense out of Harvey travelling through time? We have to decide ourselves what is canon and what it isn't there.

[barren cove]

Because if it is, the lab is too. The lab is even easier to find

Or at least in some way cannon

[royal notch]

I believe too the lab is canon, yet is still a secret.

[azure bay]

That m's literally what he does for a secret ending. He interacts with Mr. Owl for that. Mr. Owl recognizes him

[azure bay]

And there, Rose recognizes him

[royal notch]

She does also in the actual game, but that's another matter regarding metaphors we already talked before.

[azure bay]

It's irrelevant for the question whether ARG's are real. BKM is real, the events of The Lab are real

Harvey or not

[royal notch]

The events of the lab are and then we have no connection about bkm. That is a shady research centre, if it was labeled under bkm i wouldn't have nothing else to say.

But it isn't, and the first piece of media we have about bkm falls in the next millennia, if i'm not wrong.

[azure bay]

Dude.

I told you 2 times already.

The Lab and the locked room in BKM station are literally the same place. And BKM has Rose's memories about The Lab. It IS Best Kept Memory.

The tiled walls, the blast doors, old computers. All alike in both places

Don't you dare telling it's all irrelevant

We saw Rose extracting the cube sitting on the table in BKM

This secret room is in TPW trailer

[royal notch]

One is a lab, the other a storage facility. There's a whole difference. We can't just be based on walls. I may agree on the fact that bkm was built on the same place. Or that they fruited from the research made in the lab. But still years later. We don't have evidence of Rose being affiliated with bkm, which may not even exist back then.

[azure bay]

Again, that's literally the same room from The Lab, from TPW, from TPW trailer. And that's literally The Past cube on the table

How don't you see that?

[royal notch]

This one?

This is the table in TPW.

While this is from the livestreams.

[azure bay]

The room in TPW is a combination of roomis in The Lab. Either this one or (more likely) the one with the CDevice

[royal notch]

Yes. And the livestreams are bkm's business.

[azure bay]

this is from TPW trailer. This has to be the lab in TPW

[royal notch]

No contradictions yet.

[azure bay]

it connects BKM and TPW

[royal notch]

Why?

[azure bay]

because it's the damn trailer, it's about the game you are playing

[grizzled bluff]

Let's keep it civil in here

[floral mauve]

Hii Sammy

[royal notch]

It's literally a table referring a live streamed the day before. The important thing is what comes next.

[azure bay]

most people won't even experience the ARG

[royal notch]

Exactly. Why canonize an entire story if most people won't even hear it?

[azure bay]

and even if a few will it's a small fraction of the experience

[azure bay]

you are shooting yourself in the leg denying a ton of lore

for no reason

just accept it and be happy

[royal notch]

I yet have to see what would be given to the lore believing that Rose worked for bkm.

Just as i yet have to see what consequences will bring the escape of 10 people for Mr Owl's plan.

Everything is being just an extra, for now.

[azure bay]

These are the same places that look a lot alike, these are the same rooms that look a lot alike.

The differences are due to time passed. There was no distribution center on site until 2004. But the walls are the same, the doors are the same, the tech is the same, the cubes are the same. Stop denying that

[royal notch]

I never denied that, that's the fun fact.

[azure bay]

then stop denying it's the same location

there's no other reason for them to look so much alike

there's no other reason for BKM to have Rose's tapes

there's no rother eason for Albert to stick around

[royal notch]

Right, and that's exactly why i find it difficult to believe.

I have near my home a bank that 2 years ago closed and became a chinese restaurant. Same place, different location. And the 2 stations happen around 40 years of difference.

[azure bay]

it's unlikely for 2 different locations having a similar profile especially when a single person effectively monopolized it

[royal notch]

I repeat that bkm could indeed be using the research made there, but we can't be sure that back in 1984 and before the lab WAS bkm.

Just as well we can't say it wasn't if you please.

[azure bay]

That seems acceptable

And yet it's unwise ignoring so much lore as long as it doesn't conflict with the rest

and if it will conflict in the future it would still be a good reference

like FNAF books

non-canon but share the rules and the tropes

[daring wraith]

I always wondered, is Laura's dress patterns inspired solely by Twin Peaks? I get a Shining vibe as well. 🤔

(Didn't know where to put this, it's more a question than a theory)

[covert wyvern]

It's a fine question to Theorise about!

this or #🩸｜general-chat would've done fine.

[daring wraith]

Understood, thank you Damy. Out of curiosity, if you would be to remove yourself from the insider/employee position, would you see this as a possibility as well? Or I might be looking for patterns that aren't there?

[covert wyvern]

I haven't seen the Shining, so I'd have trouble answering that question.

[vivid bridge]

I could see the dress being inspired by 70s design in general

The pattern is also used for Laura's curtains

[floral mauve]

that dress is a part of Laura, like a skin

[floral mauve]

fr

[errant estuary]

crack theory: the vanderbooms have one giant piece of fabric as an heirloom, and use it for almost everything

[quartz flare]

does anyone have a recommendation of the most up to date lore video out there?

[azure bay]

Only some about TPW

also depends on your definition of up to date

but there's never a full picture

either the beginning of the series or the beginning of the timeline

If you really want to learn something your best chance is asking here

[royal notch]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but i don't understand Paradise almost at all. Why is the tenth ingredient Caroline's owl mask, when in all the other depictions it should be the cube?

[rancid slate]

There are diferent recipes

But they dont necessirally are 100% real

For example, in Roots, we create one Elixir using a crow egg

But its just for gameplay purposes

It doesnt mean they just used an egg and boom! Eternal life, baby!

[azure bay]

I have my doubts. After all, in Paradox movie there are the brothers' initials above Caroline's formula

[azure bay]

And I couldn't agree more about this

[azure bay]

And continuing Sp's thoughts (or at least as far as I get them), the mask could be like an egg. Or at least in the same field of non-literalism

While the egg feels more like gameplay, the mask has more chances to actually symbolize something

[royal notch]

@rancid slate, @azure bay, i know that the recipes itself may not be literal, but in Paradise there's consistency around the same graph. Within the boundaries of that game the recipe is followed, just like in Roots. You'd need chalk, you get chalk from the 5° memory; you'd need fire, you get it from the 9°, and so on. Except for the last one, and i was wondering the reason. Maybe they realized at the last moment of the paradox of getting a cube from a cube?

[azure bay]

We were speaking exclusively of the egg and the mask

And I don't get what cube they are geeting from a cube

[royal notch]

The 10° ingredient for the elixir seems to be a cube, but the mask gets used instead.

[azure bay]

No, that's not the case. The 10th element is a mystery up until the end

It's replaced with a question mark in the book

The cube is the result

[royal notch]

Oooh, i thought the 10° ingredient was unknown for just a while during Caroline's research.

And later discovered as the cube itself.

It explain the reason why the Eilanders didn't try to create it instead of running the sacrifices. The plot makes so much more sense!

[lost thorn]

Hello 👋

I have quite the revelation about rusty lake paradise but I don't know how to answer it

If we're talking about the order of memories, when Caroline got burned, it should've been her last memory right? Because right after that, her memory cubes start flying.

But innthe first memory, the deer masked father Nicholas is holding a cube during his sacrifice

How is a memory cube found inside a memory cube when the final scene with Caroline was her getting burned

This means that the first memory we saw was from Caroline post mortem.
But then? How did that memory got extracted? It's impossible for her to have been before she got burned...

[vague imp]

I assumed that cube was separate from Caroline's cubes

[lost thorn]

But didn't Caroline say that it's her memories that are key?

[vague imp]

I'd have to look back at my notes

[lost thorn]

You have notes...?

[vague imp]

... a few

So this is the closest I could find to what she says about memories.

It may be the same cube or it may not. I tend to take the events of the games as slightly metaphorical, because there's always some incongruity

[lost thorn]

OH MY!

[lost thorn]

Assuming that this cube came from Caroline after she got corrupted and that it's her witnessing the sacrifice after death, there would still need to be an explanation to how that memory was extracted after she was burnt.

[rancid slate]

Not all cubes are extracted

[azure bay]

Bob easily gave his cube to Dale when he turned corrupted in Case 23

no extraction whatsoever

[vivid bridge]

why did they put a contest to win a trip to a mental health facility in the newspaper

[royal notch]

Does this mean that the fire extracted only 9 cubes?

[vague imp]

Or the cube from the flashback was from a previous ritual

From someone else's memories

[azure bay]

That doesn't really matter what cube Nicolas holds.

The cube Jakob looks into was "recorded" after Caroline's death yet still belongs to her

[azure bay]

What's the problem?

[royal notch]

Last-minute consideration: the corrupted soul drawn by Laura could be the same that attacked her after the contest.

[azure bay]

the contest didn't happen yet by that time

[royal notch]

Where's the date of the contest?

[sweet tulip]

1969 I believe

or 64

no 64 is Spring

[royal notch]

The best assumption comes from Harvey's box, and it can be before or during the relationship with Bob.

[azure bay]

No, Laura broke up before the trip. And later confirmed her decision saying "I'll stay at the lake for longer"

[royal notch]

Right, but hear me out: what if she had been to Rusty Lake 2 times?

She can win the contest, get scared to death, run away, date with Bob, and then depart again looking for inner peace or her roots (or both). Returning then home and ending it all.

[azure bay]

meh, an unnacessary multiplication of entities

[vivid mountain]

yes?

[rare tide]

Oh sorry I didn't noticed. It was an accident I'm so sorry

[rare tide]

I just noticed I pinned you, I'm sorry it was a mistake mine

[vivid mountain]

no its okay!

[lost thorn]

Does this mean that Caroline may have witnessed the sacrifice post mortem and then she extracted that memory into her coffin?

[azure bay]

I think it does

[lost thorn]

Ah

It seems that this memory we are talking about also contains an ingredient for the elixir

[azure bay]

It does

[lost thorn]

How could have Caroline have known that after her death that she'd be in a memory where it contains an ingredient?

I feel as though she was gambling on it, as if the burning on the stake wasn't a gamble enough.

[azure bay]

I think she was just picky about the cubes she was to share

[lost thorn]

I think I can see that
It's just that the cube we're talking about didn't exist yet. Her formula was incomplete at the time of her death

How could she risk it?

[azure bay]

she knew the formula

she could just choose how to convey it

[lost thorn]

So why not before death?

[azure bay]

I don't think she had no fitting memories before it's just she chose the one after

and, mind you, the whole topic is now more speculative than not

we just know that she was dead when the memory was created and that the memory contained the elixir element

we can rationalize it however we want

[lost thorn]

I think we've already known that yeah

By the way..

I don't understand why the Eilanders waited ten years to sacrifice Caroline

They were ready to sacrifice jakob when he was young
And yet when Caroline offered to be in his place, she was sacrificed later

We can infer that her death was recent from the letter Nikolas wrote jakob

[azure bay]

It's unclear if they did. The whole period is vague

[lost thorn]

I disagree
The way the letter was written infers it was a recent tragedy

[azure bay]

Are you sure we can trust Nicolas?

I'm not

he may be telling the truth

but he may be lying

but if they waited for real, here are some possible reasons

1. The could be waiting for a right opportunity like The Day of The Lake

however it's weird such a day would take place so soon after

[lost thorn]

Say what you will about Nikolas but... I never remembered him lying

His intentions were clear from the start.

[azure bay]

nope, he totally manipulated Jakob to come back and then lead him to his demise

[lost thorn]

I was actually thinking that too!
But it doesn't make sense as the day of the lake happened 10 days later
Could it be possible for the day od the lake to happen consecutively like that?

[lost thorn]

Manipulation is based in truth, my point stands.

[azure bay]

or half truth

[lost thorn]

But not lie 🙂

[azure bay]

it's actually my point that stands. Nicolas is not to be trusted

[azure bay]

Paradise takes place across a year

but the point is still valid

[lost thorn]

I agree with you

I would never trust my life with Nikolas

But I would believe what he's saying

Two different things.

[lost thorn]

Not ten consecutive days?

[azure bay]

He never said when she died exactly

[azure bay]

look at the trees

[lost thorn]

You can infer from the subtext

If she died a long time ago, why would he have waited, why would he have mentioned it to jakob? He could've said she died a while back but he didn't.

[azure bay]

that's exactly what I'm talking about. You may think whatever you want... or is it what Nicolas wants you to think?

[lost thorn]

They underwent a draught and hail
It's not necessarily a helpful indicative

[azure bay]

It wasn't a draught, it was an actual fall

[lost thorn]

Nikolas manipulation lies in making you believe that you're the sacrifice, but he does not lie when he mentions that a sacrifice is needed.

Do you see my point?

[lost thorn]

Deceased stock

[azure bay]

how is that affecting the seasons?

[azure bay]

and that is easy

emotional pressure

exploitation of a sense of duty

Again, if he were a manipulator, it wouldn't matter when Caroline actually died

[lost thorn]

I don't see why he would omit that it was a long time ago, it would add more credibility to the drastic plea you're claiming that he's trying to emulate
That Caroline died a long time ago and we've been suffering ever since

[azure bay]

it would remove a sense of urgency

[lost thorn]

Sorry I meant boils
Got them confused

[azure bay]

still, I don't get what you are trying to say

[lost thorn]

That the plagues might be affecting the trees

[azure bay]

that's ridiculous. Boils affect humans, not trees

what's more, it's global

[lost thorn]

Oh..

[azure bay]

you can observe that spreading as far as the eye can see

the same is for "hail" which is actually snow except for the magical snow globe

[lost thorn]

I've got an idea

The plagues only affected the island right? Would it be possible to observe if the surroundings were also affected

Because if so them we can conclude if it's an island trees only thing or along the seasons.

[azure bay]

no idea

but again, it's easier to assume a natural phenomenon than to overcomplicate the plagues for no reason

boils are boils, hail is hail

but as I said, it's all beyond the point

waiting for 10 years 1st and than just a year would still make next to no sense

so here's the option 2:
Caroline was pulling off a classic alchemist fit

"I'll make you a philosopher's stone one day, my lord. Just make sure you keep giving me money"

Nicolas was clearly interested in the elixir

and Caroline was clearly keeping it away from him

[odd hornet]

wait, has it ever been revealed/implied who killed Laura? I've played all the games multiple times and I'm still not sure

[floral mauve]

now we are quite certain its herself, even William element got kinda excluded

[odd hornet]

oh, really? that actually surprises me ! is there any specific evidence for that you'd like to note? it's been puzzling me for the longest time

[azure bay]

Her memory in The Cave that bluntly depicts the deed and her motives are revealed in Underground Blossom

[odd hornet]

noted!! I've been meaning to replay the cave soon

[vivid bridge]

It's been implied since Seasons since the whole plot of it is "Shadow man killed woman. Gasp! Shadow man IS woman"

but as nowhere said, The Cave is the most blunt about it, showing her do it

[odd hornet]

genuinely surprised I never picked up on that, especially since I've played the cave three separate times!! Thank you so much

[vivid bridge]

tbh it also only occurred to me a few years ago lol

also rose pfp

[odd hornet]

mhm!! i love rose:))

[royal notch]

Has anyone ever talked about why Mr Crow doesn't directly drive the submarine to the big cube? He could have saved it.

[azure bay]

They need the cubes

and specific ones for that matter

[royal notch]

I mean after the retrieval, obviously.

Just go below the hotel and save some time. And the entirety of the submarine!

[azure bay]

I could be that the cube is their hub. We see them through walls and also in UB

or there could be no reason at all

[carmine field]

I suppose we shouldn't take it literally

It doesn't make sense for him to go in the middle of nowhere just for the submarine to break down, I think it's just gameplay
He may have been on his way to the big cube and the submarine couldn't handle it

[rancid slate]

I found it very funny for him to just walk there in a suit while Mr. Owl news the scuba

[royal notch]

I assume he needed it because he had to traverse its entirety, so where there's classic water.

[odd hornet]

people have probably gone over this before, but does anyone know / think that Dale's grandfather might be Aldous? And if so, was he placed there for the sake of "saving" and changing Dale's memory, or was he actually at the party?

[azure bay]

we don't know

[rancid slate]

Then Aldous would be dead

[azure bay]

probably

I think that too but I can see some "Get out of Jail Free Card" potential

[odd hornet]

we don't quite know how the immortality works, do we?

[rancid slate]

Yeah, but theres still that theory about the grandpa not existing at all in that memory

And just being a result of "The Lake is changing my memories"

As we dont see the grandpa is the other two despictions of the Birthday in Paradox

[errant scaffold]

why was Albert Vanderboom destined to be evil? It was written on a paper that he was supposed to be suckled with blood?

[errant estuary]

he was fed wine

obviously he and emma were gonna be really fucked up

[errant scaffold]

because they were fed with wine and water? and who predicted those on paper?

[deft haven]

Lmao, at least Emma still had some mental health

[floral mauve]

I don’t think it’s only cuz of that, wine part is mostly just foreshadowing their fate

[vivid mountain]

most likely the bulling bc of his scar that could have happened

[floral mauve]

I thought damy was typing for a sec💀

[floral mauve]

Ye that’s mostly the reason

Butterfly

[errant estuary]

sorry, but that girl had NO THOUGHTS in that skull of hers

[deft haven]

Lmao, it looks like she’s breaking the 4th wall

[errant estuary]

she has prolonged eye contact autism

and uncle willy is doing fortnite dances, so she’s justified

[deft haven]

Omg, William hitting the griddy would be wild

[rancid slate]

He literally got bullied by his own bro and sis + His bro married to the woman Albert loved

[vague imp]

Guys its real

[deft haven]

I saw that on reddit, but forgot to share, lol

Its a meme

[covert wyvern]

.ban @vague imp homophobia

[sweet zephyr]

ramy110re was banned.

[azure bay]

nah, I don't think it was the reason. Rather a foreshadowing. The kids would never survive on these drinks only. Besides, alcohol used to be a common children tranquilizer (for better or worse) and, I reckon, each of the 3 got their share of milk and wine.

[azure bay]

Taking such elements literally isn't always a good idea. RL use a lot of gameplay, symbolisms, narrative tricks and other meta stuff.

[modest ember]

😨

[summer dragon]

Me when I can't solve the puzzle (I'm braindead).

[wheat ore]

WHO MADE THIS OMG 😭

[errant estuary]

me trying to understand the lore (i can only understand that i am sad)

[vague imp]

I have no clue but i love it

[wheat ore]

found em :)

[hallow cape]

Robert happy, I am happy

[vague imp]

HOW

WHAT

[covert wyvern]

Glad the original artist was found, please keep in mind to always looks for artist credit before posting

but I think it's best we stick to theories in this channel, it's been off topic for long enough

[vague imp]

Yea sorry i didnt know

[covert wyvern]

that's what my reminder is for!

[slate sleet]

What happened?

[grizzled bluff]

No need to worry, Muddling. We generally warn people, unless they're seriously breaking the #✅｜rules. If you're ever unsure about your own actions, feel free to ask a mod 😄

[slate sleet]

Oh ok!

[rancid slate]

But hey! That's just a theory!

A Lake theory!

[vernal cove]

in paradox , that boat go drowning to the bottom ,is there any theories

[hallow cape]

That's the paradox because boat can't drown

[frosty wolf]

seriously speaking i percieve its just a glitch

[azure bay]

That's one of the older logo versions. If you manage to find old Cube Escape games on Flash legacy websites like Newgrounds you'll see him drowning all the time.

There is also a version where he goes from one side of the screen to the other with a yellow loading bar integrated into the sky. It's used in Roots and Paradise.

The logo we're all used to now was created in 2020 for The White Door and used almost exclusively ever since. And as CE games and Hotel were all updated, it replaced the old drowning logo

[vernal cove]

woe

wow

thank u

🤗🥹🤎

[sour brook]

He drowns if you leave him alone for long enough

Also you can catch leaves using the boat on the site. Be careful of the Rusty Lake monster tho.

[hardy pecan]

hey do you guys think the lab is happened before best kept memory?

[visual coral]

Definitely before
In BKM Albert is resurrected and in the Lab he's still a corrupted soul

[rich arrow]

hi! I have a question that has stuck in my brain for a while. Is Jakob Eilander reincarnated as Mr owl?
bcoz as we all know, rusty lake is mainly built on vanderboom family. But in rusty lake paradise, it's about the Eilander family which has nothing to do with the rest of the vanderbooms.
And I also saw a theory that says, in rusty lake paradise, Jakob Eilander is burned alive in a large wicker owl after the tenth plague. As he is surrounded by the flames, he and his mother's soul become Mr. Owl.

So, what are u guys opinions about this theory?

[floral mauve]

yes

[wheat ore]

yes

[lunar valley]

Yeah if I'm not mistaken that's what happens in Paradise, but then it's about finding the point where Aldous Vanderboom and Jakob/Mr. Owl met.

Remember that when playing The Cave, we see that William (Aldous' brother) is the last creator of the elixir of life. When taking the elixir, William dies, therefore granting Aldous his longevity.

Now the weird thing is: playing The Cave we see Jakob/Mr. Owl taking some of the elixir too, and that's when for a brief moment see his head turn into the Owl head, my question about that is, who had to die in order for him to be granted the longevity?
Is not William, because he already died for Aldous (plus, the whole point of this story is using Laura ||reincarnation of William as we know through Samsara Room|| and Dale combined to get a step closer to enlightenment)

[azure bay]

Caroline. She clearly made the elixir in Paradise ending and then dissolved in Jakob

[lunar valley]

... Wait I totally forgot about that, I'm dumb 😭

[azure bay]

what's really weird here, they were both dead by that time

[lunar valley]

Unless Caroline's sacrifice is what made the fusion and therefore allowing Jakob to survive the fire

Because then

Who else could transform the island of the Eilanders into the Hotel??

[azure bay]

No, Jakob died. The elixir ritual was performed in a purgatory we've previosly seen William in. So the hotel was built by Jakob reborn.

[lunar valley]

....... And then who the fukk built the hotel?????

[azure bay]

I'm telling you, Jakob reborn

Owl is Jakob

but Jakob's old body burnt

it was necessary for the other ritual

to enlighten the family

if not for Caroline Jakob would simply stay dead

or rather be reborn as something normal

[lunar valley]

yeah, I know Mr. Owl is Jakob, the thing that confused me was the whole being able to survive the fire (or in this case be reborn)

[lunar valley]

Ooohhhh right, because then they all get the animal heads too (the dove, the boar and so on)

And that's what we see then in Rusty Lake Hotel

(them getting killed?)

[azure bay]

Rusty Lake has weird relationship with souls and bodies. It's more apparent with corrupted souls. Sometimes they leave their old bodies behind, sometimes they take them over and sometimes you don't even have to die for that

and all these "types" of corrupted souls have no apparent differences

[lunar valley]

True

[azure bay]

chances are, even Albert's soul that took over his old body had a new one reconstructed around it

[lunar valley]

Like, we always see the a corrupted soul wandering around but sometimes it's Bob being corrupted, sometimes is Dale/Laura corrupting in the process of getting their memories extracted (seen on The Mill)

[azure bay]

While Mr. Rabbit whose old body was eaten seems to have a new one formed for Birthday

the devs have confirmed it's the same character

[lunar valley]

And then why is Dale's dead family a part of his substances of past lives to try and free himself??? At least that's what I remember he tells Dale on the letter he left after killing the family

[azure bay]

it wasn't the family, it was the pistol. Looking exactly like the one Pheasant used to kill herself

[lunar valley]

Ooohhhh, yeah, because that's what's locked in the box, we need the coin and then rewind time to give it to grandpa 🤔 never thought about the pistol itself

[azure bay]

yeah, it's gone until you rewind the massacre

[lunar valley]

And Mrs. Pheseant is The Lady of the Lake right? That's the whole outfit thing and objects we see on Theatre (, the hat specifically)

Yo I need to replay them aGAIN but I'll have to save money to play Roots and Hotel 😭

[azure bay]

the songstress. The confirmed ladies of the lake are Caroline and somehow Laura

at least the songstress has a ton of similar vibes

she doesn't make sense as Pheasant yet though

but the vibes are unmistakable

maybe in the future they'll reveal something about her

[lunar valley]

To me she IS the songstress, the design on her dress (before AND after she transforms in the theatre) literally have patterns that look like pheasant feathers (and like I said, from the substances of her past lives, the hat is the one she wears during the photo shoot before... Y know, actually shooting herself)

I literally went to Google images to look for it

It's the same fucking hat

[azure bay]

as I said, the vibes are unmistakable

but again, not much sense so far

Pheasant is meant to be dead haunting the lake's bottom

the most logical and the most dissatisfying answer would be a pretender

[lunar valley]

So far the people from the Eilanders family that has been seen / be in contact with Dale are her and Mr. Rabbit, (and maybe the deer if we count the corrupted soul with antlers chasing us at the end of case 23)we don't know about the others, or why have they been seen outside of the Lake in the first place because that's a good point

They're supposed to be IN the lake

[azure bay]

being around the lake like Mr. Deer isn't a weird thing either

[lunar valley]

We see during The Cave Aldous and Owl trying to contain the souls to allow Dale to get to the white room

[azure bay]

yeah, exactly

[lunar valley]

I feel like we're still getting more questions than answers

[azure bay]

sometimes

[summer dragon]

Wait, what?

[azure bay]

what are you confused about?

[summer dragon]

I know Albert's back (Underground Blossom ARG). But there's a new body?

[azure bay]

you seem to have never played The Past Within

[summer dragon]

Not yet.
This weekend, I plan on doing so.

[azure bay]

it's basically about how he returned

[summer dragon]

Ah.
Man, my friend (who introduced me to RL) is in for a surprise.

He hasn't played Underground Blossom, so he shouldn't know.

[stable oracle]

There's an art for underground blossom?

*arg

[azure bay]

yep but the rabbit hole was related to The Past Within

[summer dragon]

The ARG danced between UB and TPW.

Check out #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg

[stable oracle]

Will do!

[vernal cove]

can i have link to ur YouTube

[azure bay]

I think you can find it in my profile

[summer dragon]

That moment when Albert becomes Afton.

[vernal cove]

i know i mean the link of channel if that allow

[azure bay]

Me too but ok,
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcZQUFcpU4zkIg2p36gH9qA

[vernal cove]

thanks

[hallow cape]

What?

[azure bay]

they draw parallels between Albert Vanderboom and William was his name? Afton from FNAF

[hallow cape]

Ah thank you Mr. nowhere

[lunar valley]

WAIT I'VE ONLY PLAYED THE DEMO, SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE PLAYING AS HIM AND ROSE?!

Oh SHIT

That also explains 1 or 2 things I remember seeing from Underground blossom now that I think about it 🤔🤔

[lunar valley]

NO LMAO, don't let his skin turn purple!!

[lunar valley]

Yo I didn't even know about this, you really are up to date with EVERYTHING Rusty Lake

Gosh I have so much stuff to catch up on 🫠🫠

[azure bay]

Are you refering to The Lab secret level in UB?

[lunar valley]

Yeah

[lunar valley]

I mean, thinking about it, we see this as fragments of memories from Laura growing up, like, at some point she SAW Rose going to the lab that's why that appears there, right?
Or at least that's what I can tell so far because I still have not fully experienced UB, I have seen content from it yes and played the demo when it came out but I know I'm still missing pieces that I'll get to whenever I get to play the full version of it, same for The Past Within

And speaking of, I should probably replay those 2 demos now that I'm speed running all the collection and Paradox again (I'm losing count of how many times I've replayed Rusty Lake, this is slowly becoming an obsession 😭)

[azure bay]

I don't think you need to bother yourself with demos too much. They don't bring in much.

UB demo is mostly the 1st 2 chapter abridged

And TPW albeit completely unique is very short and reveals next to nothing

[stable oracle]

Not sure where to put this, but Mr and my friend noticed stuff appearing behind the boxes, any semblance or notes?

[lunar valley]

If I'm not mistaken, you can link those symbols to cubes you can collect on one of the most recent games (can't remember which one)

And all cubes in Rusty Lake have always been linked to different elements/materials(?)

The swirl is the glass cube, the S is iron cube and so on

[vague imp]

It's underground blossom

Near the end of the game

[azure bay]

Rather in post-ending content

[frosty wolf]

i believe they're referring to the shadows "behind the boxes"

if that is the question, each shadow is representing a game you've played in the series. for example, finishing Arles=a painting/frame would hang from one of the background trees. finishing The Lake=that fish on top

[summer dragon]

Why are people collecting memories?
Like, what do they even do?

[rancid slate]

Make sure to play all Cube Escapes to undestand :)

[summer dragon]

I did.
Mus' be time for a replay.

[wet willow]

Theory creators some one can explain me the Dale time line since when he accepted the case 23?

I was a little bit confused about blue and Golden cube

[azure bay]

October 1971 - He's seen the body and it disappearance

Later that year - He visited Rusty Lake theatre and probably met Bob. We don't know much because it wasn't directly depicted in the games.

August 1972 - He's still on the case, working in his office. He meets Bob again, he finds the cubes probably set up by Mr. Owl and he gets teleported to Rusty Lake.

He lands unconscious near the chapel. Mr. Owl levitates him inside. Dale wakes up, finds an exit and meets Mr. Crow who takes him to the cabin. Dale escapes Mr. Deer's corrupted soul on an elevator going down into the lake.

The elevator stops at the lake bottom. Dale walks into a big white cube while being protected by Mr. Owl.

December 1972 - Mr. Crow collects Laura's cubes he previously flushed down the lake and takes them to that big cube Dale's still in, unconscious and chained to a chair. Laura's corrupted soul is in the same predicament. He connects them to a machine.

Dale and possibly Laura experience Paradox. Dale lives through the same dream over and over again, learning lessons and probably doing something for the plan. There are 2 ways to leave the loop: either sacrifice himself to save Laura or accept her death and find the real exit.

The real exit is yet another elevator and the golden cube. At least that's how Dale sees things. In the reality Mr. Crow created the golden cube using the same machine and gave it to Dale after he sleepwalked into a real elevator. He starts flickering between human and corrupted states and somehow Laura is also alive afterwards.