🤔｜theories

[covert wyvern]

You need mine! /j

[carmine field]

There is a theory that there is an Asura society, seeing the poster in Mr. Rabbit's room and the show list in Mrs. Pheasant's room, with her name in it. However, we have seen few Asura, all being linked to Mr. Owl in some way, and these are the only evidence that more Asura exist.

Discussing with one person, we entertained a theory that, actually, the Theater has always had a human audience and that an Asura society does not need to exist.

Although many disagree, there is a chance that the Asura names (Mr. Owl, Mr. Rabbit, etc...) are treated as pseudonyms in human society. In this case, the drawings and paintings of the Asura in their true forms would just be "avatars" or an artistic way of representing them.

Mr. Owl and Mr. Crow use their names in Theater performances:
"An introduction by Mr. Owl"
"An intermezzo by Mr. Crow"
It could be the same with Mrs. Pheasant.
Mr. Owl also uses the name "Owl" as a login to The White Door's network.

Regarding the drawings and paintings, this would explain the painting of Mr. Owl in the Hotel or his statue in Underground Blossom.

I'm not sure if I believe this theory or the Asura society one. It's not like I need to take any sides.

Sorry if there are any writing errors, I did it in a bit of a hurry

[azure bay]

1. The posters in Hotel (at least the Rabbit one) are not about humans named after animals they are about asuras.
2. Cube Escape Theatre is not an actual event, it was restructured to teach Dale.

Also an interesting question

Can we consider a chick tortured by Pigeon an asura?

[carmine field]

I think so

[azure bay]

He is not affiliated with Owl in any way

[carmine field]

Yes, but Mrs. Pigeon has already exchanged technologies with Mr. Owl, or so it seems.

Nothing prevents Mr. Owl from giving the bird to Mrs. Pigeon to use for her experiments.

[carmine field]

As for the point of the poster, if it's like I said, the image is an avatar and the name is a pseudonym

[azure bay]

No, that's actually the advertised person. We know he exists, there no need to overcomplicate it with avatars and pseudonymes

[azure bay]

And this does not explain a thing

Where does Owl get such slaves from?

[carmine field]

As for slaves, we don't even know how Mrs. Pigeon got an Asura slave. We know almost nothing about Mr. Owl's rise, but we know that his nature allowed him to imprison several people in the basement of The White Door.

I also think that this complicates things, but that is not proof that it cannot be that way. It's just a inconvenient thing.

[azure bay]

Either way, Owl did not create the chick, therefore, there are other asuras like him

[errant estuary]

the swedish orphan trade that ended in the 1900s /j

[carmine field]

He could have created the bird, just as he may have given the Elixir to Toad and Bat.

If there is an Asura society, then other people have discovered the Elixir, right?

What would stop them from going after these Elixirs instead of extracting them from the dog's feces?

William was the last creator of the Elixir, the book says.

We are not sure if Asura can be created from other methods because it has never been shown to us.

[errant estuary]

||probably through normal reincarnation, but it’s very hard and requires sacrifice to even ensure||

[azure bay]

I don't think so. Then Owl would find a way to get it. Probably there are some more "natural" ways of enlightenment

[carmine field]

I think this is as far as we can get to this part of the discussion. Anything beyond that is guesswork, which doesn't seem very productive.

[azure bay]

Agree

[carmine field]

Still, I think there might be something like that because of Karma in Buddhism, but that would just be my bias

[azure bay]

Only if this Karma is different too. Because I don't see how it's immoral to be taken painful memories from by someone else

[carmine field]

Probably

[errant estuary]

sometimes “defilement” is not actually a moral failing, but a response to natural things, like death and suffering

as far as i know, but that is in combo with for example shinto

[carmine field]

I'll ask my friend about this later

[errant estuary]

ok

[carmine field]

She's probably sleeping now

She helped me understand a lot about Samsara and some interpretations

Unfortunately, I couldn't draw any conclusions from that wheel of Samsara in Caroline's book, in which Naraka and Asura swapped places

[azure bay]

I'm still asking myself what the devs were even thinking

[carmine field]

There are two options that are the most likely:

• The swap represents something from the past
• It's just for the owl to stand on the phrase "The Chosen One"

The second one is quite anti-climatic

But it could be the truth

[azure bay]

Y'know, Caroline's book is also in Paradox. And it's adapted to Paradox. I think it's about the future there. At least the deer part.

Especially considering another day of the lake coming

[carmine field]

That is true

But it's not like I gave up searching

[errant estuary]

||on the day of the lake, laura and dale will throw hands and they’ll bet on who wins||

[azure bay]

Something along those lines

I wonder what the devs will do 1st

[carmine field]

||The insects from Albert's childhood AKA The Council will decide who will die and who will live||

[errant estuary]

||ms pheasant will drop bars in the background||

[azure bay]

The mammoth ||that liiiives!!!|| or Rusty Lake Escape?

[carmine field]

I hope it's the mammoth ||it lives||

It's been 4-5 years

[azure bay]

I was always thinking that 20k BC would be appropriate before Dale's climax since it's expected to show some deep lake insight

But they are telling there's something grand cooking

And they called Dale's climax to be something grand

[errant estuary]

ok so can i add something: my gut reaction to the mental health facilities of rusty lake, as someone who has been to a lot of psychiatrists was that it felt weird and exploitative

this is not a condemnation, i think that works for the story

[azure bay]

I think it's a trope

I saw it elsewhere

[errant estuary]

true

[azure bay]

But I never managed to find the source

[stone bramble]

white door does seem very unethical

[errant estuary]

it’s mostly from paradox

[azure bay]

Paradox isn't really about it. There is a therapy part to it but it's not all

[azure bay]

Could be IRL before such institutions became regulated

[errant estuary]

yeah

[stone bramble]

paradox's mental health bits I like its why its my fav. saying dale's brain is now worthless because of the trauma it endured makes me so sad :(

[errant estuary]

but i think that works for the “antagonists”, as in luring people who do need help to feed cubes to the lake

[stone bramble]

oh yee also with hotel

[errant estuary]

and given how old mr owl and mr crow are, it kind of falls in line with that

[stone bramble]

I like the detail that mr owl tricked the guests into coming by thinking he'll help them like mr boar with his addiction but mr owl planted a drug in his room

[azure bay]

Sounds like a character development potential. And it's fullfiled both in Paradox and other games about Dale's journey

[errant estuary]

also, another thing is that i researched, and drama/performance is sometimes utilized in therapy (psychodrama, or therapeutic theatre), especially when the patient has problems communicating, or to let them be someone else for a short bit (miss pheasant and mr rabbit)

[stone bramble]

UB: ||cant wait to see what happens with dale and laura in the hotel I cant wait to see how theyll progress ||

[carmine field]

I think I'm going to sleep, it's pretty late here

[stone bramble]

gn!! o//

[carmine field]

Another time I'll jump in here again

[stone bramble]

omg I never thought of that wow thats a cool interpretion of miss pheasant

[errant estuary]

thanks

[fierce beacon]

dale + laura = daura?

[azure bay]

No, Dale + Laura = 1 dead + 1 enlightened

[fierce beacon]

hm

[stone bramble]

UB: ||that reminds me I wonder if laura and dale will fuse like jakob and caroline did since laura is gonna be in hotel ||

[azure bay]

I don't believe Owl and Caroline fused together

1. That contradicts samsara where souls are constant

2. That contradicts the elixir's rule of 2

one will die, the other will be enlightened

not both will be enlightened

[errant estuary]

||maybe it’s to show the inheritance of the owl mask||

[azure bay]

3. Owl has no knowledge of the elixir Caroline had, plus he identifies himself exclusively as Jakob

4. He says that a great sacrifice was needed to become something else. It must be Caroline

[royal notch]

But Caroline was already dead...

[rancid slate]

Laura also tells Dale in Paradox that one of them will die and the other will live, just like the Elixir

[azure bay]

I think that's because the golden cube in The Cave is made of William's elixir memories just like Caroline made an elixir for Jakob in Paradise ending

[torn coral]

I have a question.. how did you get to the undrerground blossoms secret ?..

[azure bay]

which one?

[torn coral]

I replied to it, you can click on it to see

[azure bay]

ah, sorry

for this one you need to collect ||7 cubes across all 7 levels and place them in the right order. This scene will be available after you take the shrimp and click the cubes again||

[torn coral]

Oh, but after I did it.. they send me to the hotel and mr. owl told me the day of the lake is coming..
But time doesn't exist in lake I think, right?..

[azure bay]

you can go back, ||click the cubes again and look around||

[torn coral]

Oh thank you

[rancid slate]

The order of the cubes is shown in CE Collection

[torn coral]

I managed to collect all the achievements💃🏽
My head is turning a lot
And I am so sorry about the thiefs nipple.. 🥲

[azure bay]

he deserved that

[feral fox]

||How did Mr. Owl get to be the chosen one?||

[errant estuary]

||his family roasted him||

[feral fox]

ah yeah

[torn coral]

I have a question.. does time exist in the lake?..
I think it doesn't..

[rancid slate]

Yesn't

[azure bay]

@feral fox @errant estuary objectively we don't know who's to choose the chosen ones and for what purpose.
And personally I don't see how sacrificing Jakob would do any good for him. Because, y'know, that's not what a sacrifice means.

Jakob became Owl thanks to Caroline alone. She was the one to intercept his soul after he died, create an elixir using her memories and cunduct another ritual that basically granted him his powers.

[errant estuary]

that’s true but he died

[azure bay]

and I think he would remain dead

if not for Caroline

[errant estuary]

yeah, if he did not get caroline’s fursona, he’d just be a bunch of soot

[azure bay]

or at best he would be reborn as something else without recollection of his past life

idk for me that doesn't sound like the chosen one

unless his role was to die so the rest of the family ascends

[errant estuary]

that was probably the thing

or that caroline was the chosen initially, but then realized her favorite child was gonna die

[azure bay]

or alternatively he was chosen to become the ruler of the lake

[errant estuary]

what happened to the rest of them after the ending of paradise

[azure bay]

they became the guests

[errant estuary]

because i assumed that they lived, and then were like born again

[azure bay]

We don't know what happened to them immideately after the ritual

but sooner or later they became the guests

they seem to have changed and not to recall their past lives but idk if it's for real or the Eilanders were just poorly introduced

[errant estuary]

i’m assuming it’s reincarnation

and the plagues was to ensure the next reincarnation was gonna be asuras through strife, sacrifice and struggle

[azure bay]

Nicolas asked the lake for enlightenment in exchange of sacrifice

we are used to immediate enlightenment with identity preservation

but idk

RL doesn't seem too consistent in general

[errant estuary]

because otherwise, the elixir wouldn’t be so focused on during caroline’s memories

[azure bay]

wdym?

[errant estuary]

it felt like a thing she kept secret from him

and i think that the eilanders had a completely different understanding of how enlightenment is achieved (actively suffering, and piety toward the lake)

[azure bay]

they had their own ritual that had next to nothing to do with Caroline's elixir

[errant estuary]

exactly

[azure bay]

but what's your point?

[errant estuary]

we don’t know how different their understanding of it is from the vanderboom brothers

and the elixir might be a kind of “cheat code”

maybe they’re even devas

or something

nevermind

[azure bay]

I think their understanding doesn't really matter. This series has so little of reliable narrative tools so it's very impractical adding unreliable perspectives.

What matters is that the game called it enlightenment (like many other things in the series) and the result is generally the same as before.

It can still have its own set of rules but it's likely not because the Eilanders use the term in a wrong way but rather the devs always try to keep the old concepts fresh.

Recently they've shown a new way to create and use a golden cube

for me, it was borderline infuriating

[errant estuary]

i mean that it has a bunch of different methods

[azure bay]

recently they called Roses' cube escape and tree fusion enlightenment

well

it looks like some og buddhist enlightenment

but has next to nothing to do with turning into a demigod with animalistic features

the one we know and love

I'm about to give up looking for similarities

[errant estuary]

what if enlightenment is being abhuman/j

[azure bay]

CS turning into a human was also called enlightenment in SR /not jk

[errant estuary]

😭

reject humanity, become bat

NO WONDER WHY THE DOG DID NOT CHANGE

AND NOW ITS JUST CHILLING

[sweet tulip]

according to the crossword...

[azure bay]

rather according to The Past Within

[sweet tulip]

i mean yeah also
but it's a confirmation

rather a confirmation that it's relevant info

[azure bay]

ok

[sweet tulip]

so is soup

very relevant

[torn coral]

Just to tell you umm I didn't do the crossword.. it's kind of hard..

[azure bay]

relax

it's meant for the hive mind

you can see the whole ARG process in a doc pined at #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg

[thorny wedge]

of course soup is relevant everybody loves soup

[sweet tulip]

most of it comes straight from TPW

but one of the questions is "something that doesn't exist in the Lake"

[torn coral]

Oh.. thanks..

[carmine field]

I don't think time literally doesn't exist in the Lake, but rather that it flows differently or is broken

[azure bay]

I think it's literal

it's the place beyond time

[carmine field]

Oh, that's right

I was considering physical time, the fourth dimension, which seems to act within the Lake (after all, all characters can move within it, the time isn't "frozen")

But the Lake itself seems to be beyond time in relation to the rest of the world

[errant estuary]

oh shit is that a mf HATCHETFIELD REFERENCE /j!?

[marsh kindle]

Regarding the Vander connection theory, it is possible that William and Aldous may have had another sibling

[azure bay]

It's possible but that would be James' father

[marsh kindle]

Or Aldous had a family before he became Mr Crow

[marsh kindle]

Exactly

Or his mother

[azure bay]

in that case James wouldn't be a Vanderboom

[marsh kindle]

I said sibling, as in they could have had a brother or a sister

[azure bay]

yes, but sister would change her last name

after marriage

[marsh kindle]

True

[azure bay]

and James would inherit it

[azure bay]

The theory itself is rather ridiculous. Vanderboom is as similar to Vandermeer as O'Brien is to O'Donnel. "Van der" simply means "of the"

[errant estuary]

yeah

it’s like thinking that Sandström and Brännström is the same, which it is not

[bright parrot]

UB for me did answer some questions but it opened more questions

||I do believe that the thief is important to plot because timepiece was like super important to harvey and he would have atleast protected it with his life||

2nd

||We see harvey as asura in game but we know harvey was bird in atleast the later part of Laura's life where we see him die or Laura changed timeline so Harvey don't remember dying||

[azure bay]

that's impossible. TWD takes place after they broke-up which happened on Sorrow Cross

Laura just knows Rusty Lake

likely lived there early in her childhood

[untold stump]

"It's a place I know" Laura says this about her drawing of the hotel in TWD, and in UB it's revealed that it's before CE The Cabin ( unless she went several times in the cabin, which is really probable ) given that she knew the Hotel before knowing Bob, and Laura sent him a note saying she was going to the cabin

[rancid slate]

The scenes shown in TWD are Dreams of Bob, events that happened before he went to TWD

[azure bay]

and the last dream is about the earliest event timeline-wise

[rancid slate]

Ye

||The pigeon being hit by a train in Sorrow Cross|| reminds me of the ||Corrupted Soul with wings we kill|| in Harvey Box

[azure bay]

I always thought that Spring 1964 takes place before they started dating

[rancid slate]

Me too

[azure bay]

are you the author?

[rancid slate]

Yes

Some things are inaccurate

[azure bay]

the devs said that the same corrupted soul attacked both Laura and Harvey in the cabin

and it had wings only from Harvey's pov

maybe because he was a birb

[errant estuary]

it was feeling quirky

[carmine field]

I imagine that Laura's text in the photo and her breakup with Bob actually happened in 1971

If it was 1969, Bob would have kept this photo for 2 years, which is not impossible but is quite weird

[rancid slate]

She says that she is goin to the Lake she told him about

[carmine field]

Ah

🤡

[errant estuary]

||“bye bob i am going to the hotel that allegedly killed it’s patients in 1893”||

[rancid slate]

Does this newspaper has a date somewhere?

[carmine field]

It doesn't appear to have a date, but it's probably from 1969 too

Also

who's PurpleLogie?

[azure bay]

nope but the official timeline does

[carmine field]

It doesn't seem to be lore-related, it could have been from an old contest

[azure bay]

taken from Harvey's Box

[untold stump]

They won a contest, they imagined the concept behind the russian doll puzzle of case 23 and the devs credited them in here

[errant estuary]

oh

[carmine field]

That's true

[errant estuary]

anyways yeah it’s probably 1969

but the thing i’m wondering is, did the staff just tell her to fuck off and do whatever

[ivory girder]

||7 years without the timepiece protecting seems long ngl||

[carmine field]

I don't think that's the case. If so, it would be ||through Dr. Clark||

[untold stump]

Maybe that's what affected her mental health so much. She went to the lake with the protection of the timepiece before, maybe without it it affected her on a mental level ?

[errant estuary]

if she just hung out in the cabin

[ivory girder]

maybe

so harvey helped her by using the timepiece?

in the cabin

it's surely a possibility

[untold stump]

Well in CE the cabin she defeats the soul with a green gem, and I'd say it was just because the devs didnt think the game so far if that gem didnt reappear in the Cave, to power up the submarine. So there doesnt seem to be a connection here

[carmine field]

I expected something about the blue and green diamonds

[ivory girder]

it can totally be a retcon yeah

[untold stump]

Unless the timepieces somehow transformed into gems and Aldous is using another one of the cousins' timepieces, but thats going far out on a theory here

[ivory girder]

||still surprised we have no mention of the trip in ub but we have a whole new thief arc happening about the same time as that||

[errant estuary]

||the thief definitely was someone who was a thorn in her side||

[untold stump]

||The thief is Johnny who aged terribly bad 😱 😱😱||

[errant estuary]

||JOHNNY DYED HIS MOUSTACHE!?||

[royal notch]

Sorry for changing the subject, but how do you think Albert worked with Samuel and Ida's corpses? Their deaths wouldn't be strange enough to raise some suspects on him?

[sweet tulip]

just based off of names, yes
but considering grandpa...

[errant estuary]

gramps wasn’t in paradox

so he might be implanted

[royal notch]

I believe he's an "avatar" for Mr Crow.

[errant estuary]

he’s actually miss pheasant, cosplaying as an old man /j

[untold stump]

Why does every discussion about RL theories lead to discussing men's hairs ? First Jakob now ||Johnny||

[errant estuary]

HAIR CURSE

[carmine field]

Because the dates of deaths in the gravestones do not correspond to the time in which they actually died, I imagine Albert somehow hid the bodies or fabricated some story, also lying to Leonard about his parents' disappearance

But it's just my impression without any proof

[sweet tulip]

thing is without grandpa actually being Crow, there's no reason for the family to own Pheasant's pistol, and so no reason for Rabbit to attack
also the gun shot coincides with the scar in Case 23 (even if the flesh mask design was retconned)

[untold stump]

Grandpa's deal is definitely weird. Since he wasnt in Paradox and that Dale parents were actually murdered, id say he doesnt exist actually, but he was necessary to erase the bad memory out of Dale in some way.

[royal notch]

Wait, are those the only tombstones that have their dates wrong?

[carmine field]

Yep

I think so

[royal notch]

I gotta check.

[sweet tulip]

unless Owl planted it there, but that's a weird move to do to a random family

[untold stump]

Pheasant's pistol could very well be an asset reuse, but since Rabbit takes it and he has a known history with Pheasant, it could very well explain why Rabbit describes it as a substance from his past life. Rabbit and Pheasant both worked for the Theater after all

[sweet tulip]

it would be the only gun asset reuse in the entire series, then

even the box is the same

and if it's a reuse, then why does Rabbit need it ?

[errant estuary]

“mom says it’s my turn with the gun”

[sweet tulip]

x)

[untold stump]

But how does this pistol tie back at Pheasant ? Like why did she have one in the first place ? And how does it tie to the fact that Pheasant is Elizabeth's reincarnation ?

Pheasant really seems like the most important out of the Hotel guest du to her appearance in Theater, and her gun in Birthday. But why do the Vandermeer have that gun ?

[sweet tulip]

exactly, and the only logical reason would be that either Crow or Owl gave them the pistol
so either it's been planted, or Crow just.. kept it, and he's the grandpa

[errant estuary]

either she was depressed, was aware of the jig, or the gun was a special interest

[sweet tulip]

special interest ?

[errant estuary]

maybe she just likes small guns /j

[sweet tulip]

unsure, but we know it's a token of Rabbit's past life, and the only link we can make of that is to Elizabeth

[untold stump]

But the grandpa is only seen in Birthday, which is a modified memory. With Paradox, that shows twice the birthday party but never grandpa, id say that maybe in Birthady the grandpa is Crow's manifestation in Dale's mind, but outside of that they're not blood related

[sweet tulip]

ok, then where does the gun come from ?

[untold stump]

But why is Elizabeth linked to a gun ? She's not American last i checked

[sweet tulip]

she is tho

well she's a Dutch-american

[errant estuary]

if she still had her eyesight, then i think she’d have shot david

[untold stump]

She's have shot everyone honestly

[sweet tulip]

RL takes place in North America, somewhere between NYC and Canada

[errant estuary]

and it is a very old flintlock pistol, a model several centuries behind

[untold stump]

Ok that was a joke I didnt actually think her nationality would link her to a gun. Because well, her whole family is here, why does she get a guin more than anyone else ?

[errant estuary]

her suppressed, seething rage

[sweet tulip]

why wouldn't she ?

[errant estuary]

cut to a new game where she starts blasting

[untold stump]

Ok so what we know about the gun
Pheasant has brought it with her to the hotel
She used it during the Owl costume, but unalived herself. Acidentally because of Harvey activating the flashlight or intentionally, who's to say ?
Rabbit needs it to get out of his state, possibly to uncorrupt himself
The Vandermeers got it somehow

[royal notch]

The point is, is it actually the same?

[thorny wedge]

i would say no but why does mr rabbit need the same one to the point he's willing to kill for it

[errant estuary]

the vandermeers when the pretty antique gun they had got from a flea market ropes them into the soap opera of rusty lake

[carmine field]

I don't think it's in the USA because the months and days are swapped

[sweet tulip]

no that's just because the devs are Dutch

[untold stump]

Not being the same would bring a lot of questions : why is Rabbit looking for it ? And why does the box and the gun look the exact same ?

[carmine field]

And there is also the chapel, with the year 1384

[errant estuary]

i think it is a fictional country

[thorny wedge]

agreed

[carmine field]

I guess it just doesn't matter

[errant estuary]

but probably in europe

[covert wyvern]

wips out ye olde 'Rusty Lake is actually just a pocket universe with many entrances and exits'

[sweet tulip]

I can't reconcile the Chappel
but Bob explicitely lives in NYC
and in Roots, Leonard goes to war in 1917 in a British uniform, which corresponds to Canada's history

[carmine field]

indeed

[sweet tulip]

and a lot of things surrounding Laura are straight up from the US's 70's

[covert wyvern]

(its definitely the most boring answer, im sorry)

[untold stump]

Damy you realise that now that you work for RL everyone is going to analyse all your messages the same way we analysed the poster and all the teaser images the devs gave us

[covert wyvern]

yeah I need to

not

LMAO

but is a personal belief I still hold dear.

[errant estuary]

that or it’s an alternate universe where the british went to canada earlier

[sweet tulip]

I don't think Damy knows that much about the details of the story
do you ?

[covert wyvern]

usual disclaimer that I don't actually know more than y'all

[sweet tulip]

yeah

[covert wyvern]

ah yeah theres my answer haha

[royal notch]

C'mere

[covert wyvern]

and right now I quite like it that way truth to be told:)

anyway ive got raids to do, have fun y'all

[thorny wedge]

be safe ✨

[carmine field]

How does Bob live in NYC?

[errant estuary]

bye we promise not to set ten plagues

[thorny wedge]

i promise nothing

[royal notch]

TWD ARG, apparently.

[carmine field]

It makes sense

[sweet tulip]

so yeah, somewhere here

most likely

[thorny wedge]

rusty lake is just an extra great lake

lake superior two: cursed (extra)

[sweet tulip]

it also explains how a poor-looking family can own a whole island to themselves when there's no more big expence of land anywhere in Europe

Rusty Lake is in Québec 😱
fear the French

[untold stump]

Le lac rouillé

[sweet tulip]

ono

🏳️

also let's face it
Bird Bridge is proof that it's an NYC metro

just the entire thing

[thorny wedge]

they do also use dollars, though horribly inflated

[sweet tulip]

I was talking more about the dirty food, street performer, and rats
but yes that too

[thorny wedge]

those are also very valid points i figured those were indeed included

only in nyc could a street performers trumpet spit out several concerning objects and have himi look so unfazed, annoyed even

[sweet tulip]

indeed

Mondays, you know

when's the last time we had a Magritte ref ?

was it Paradox ?

I honestly don't remember seeing any more after this one

[carmine field]

actually they use...

rusty money

[sweet tulip]

I would guess it's just a way to obscure a bit more the location and avoid any currency issues

[ivory girder]

on theme with the US!

[sweet tulip]

also I saw someone saying a few days back that coins are 100$
no, they're 1$, it's just 100 cents
those are 60's-70's vending machines, candy was cheap

(but not donuts apparently)

[thorny wedge]

youre definitely paying extra for the cigarette in that subway coffee though

[sweet tulip]

it's the chef's secret ingredient

[thorny wedge]

much like the sandwich worms

im almost afraid to wonder what he did to the donut

[sweet tulip]

oh you know

I can't say it here because of age restriction

but you know

[thorny wedge]

D:

[sweet tulip]

what's a man gotta do with boxes of donuts

anyway

[errant estuary]

the donuts are untouched, that’s why it is 50 bucks

[thorny wedge]

lmao valid theory

[sweet tulip]

fair

[thorny wedge]

thats a rare artifact on the nyc subway

he had to fight off rats to keep that donut safe

youre paying for his labour

[errant estuary]

laura didn’t care that she had a cig in her coffee

[thorny wedge]

if i had to life through her life i dont think i would care either

[sweet tulip]

Bob is just picky

extra protein

[errant estuary]

that’s why i think she just hung out

[azure bay]

They said nothing about grandpa, only names

[sweet tulip]

I know

[azure bay]

That's possible but actually these stations depict only approximate dates. For instance Sorrow Cross takes place across 2 to 3 years

[thorny wedge]

idk about same day since a newspaper probably wouldn't do same-day news like that especially since the birthday party happened in the evening (or very early morning but. who does that) and looking at the newspaper it just feels weird that this would be a genuine, accurate newspaper rather than a story device since it depicts only relevant things we know about or have just seen

[errant estuary]

i think it was at least december 1939, at most january 1940

[thorny wedge]

yeah i dont think all of these things actually happened within a few days of each other it just feels weird

[azure bay]

Laura's outfit isn't exactly for winter

[errant estuary]

i didn’t even know, because where i live that’s just how things look at that time of year, all the time

[errant estuary]

average kid thing to not want to put on a jacket /j

[stone bramble]

I do think yeah child lane takes place at least the same year maybe a few weeks after birhtday

I dont think it was planned to at first. think they made laura child model first and then later on development went oh wouldnt it be nice to add a birthday ref in here. also Like rose is wearing a coat thats winterish

which is sad since laura would be like 4 years old :(

dale and laura both have me worrying about who watched over them when they lost their parents

I know harvey was told to watch over her but I think in canon hes still a bird and I have doubts a lil parrot could take care of a lil girl lol

[thorny wedge]

he's also a bird in seasons while in UB he's a hybrid throughout. it seems he can shapeshift at will rather than somehow being confined to one form, or at least shifts more regularly than we thought

[azure bay]

I'm damn sure Harvey is not really a hybrid just like Laura's story has nothing to do with the subway

[thorny wedge]

also possible

and likely

[azure bay]

shapeshifting would be helpful to escape a cardboard box, for example. Or a cage. Or fight corrupted souls

plus, Theatre and The Cave explicitely indicate Harvey as an animal

in samsara wheels

hybrids are not animals, they are demigods

At face value this doesn't make sense. Laura was born 40 years after Hotel

yes, that's what important to mention

I wouldn't say that trains are time machines because they don't really exist but they may depict Harvey to time travel

and still, I don't think the ||secret hotel ending|| is about the guests arriving. Rather Owl setting his new plan concerning Laura and Dale in motion

and, judging by its place on the ||underground map||, it happens some time during ||Crib Station|| events

I estimate it very probable because Hotel is not only the series' past but also the future

The new day of the lake coming was 1st hinted at in Paradox

in Caroline's book that was recontextualized for Dale's journey

we know that the elevator Dale was in is the Hotel elevator Harvey was using to get across the floors

and we know that Dale and Laura will somehow fight for enlightenment

and finally we just saw Laura ||taking the same ride to the hotel||

it has to be it

Dude. ||The elevator ending|| is a direct sequel to CE The Cave. 1st we see the elevator with Dale departing to the hotel. Then we enter the cube and see ||Mr. Crow taking Laura there too||.

it's really simple, isn't it?

all that was brewing up since Hotel release in late 2015

with a prophecy of Dale arriving to the hotel by elevator

[stone bramble]

hope the build up is worth it

[azure bay]

then his 2016 journey through BDay and Theatre

then Roots setting up Laura's role in all that

then The Cave explaining it in details

[stone bramble]

wait I forget does seasons take place when laura is in the machine in cave? like with dale and paradox

[azure bay]

unlikely

Paradox is an artificial dream

Seasons are legit memories like BDay

[stone bramble]

ah

[azure bay]

then Paradise introduced the day of the lake

then Paradox explained how it's relevant for Dale/Laura

and now it seems we are closer to the culmination than ever

[errant estuary]

@bitter vessel all we know is that fear didn’t make her blind, so i think it was a natural reason that was never addressed up until she had lost all her vision

[tired herald]

Oh hey

Makes sense

[untold stump]

Well just because fear didn't make her blind doesn't mean it couldn't have been caused by something the family did

Especially considering how fcked up they are

[tired herald]

Oh yeah true they real messed up

I wonder why they believed in sacrifices anyway

[errant estuary]

that’s my second theory: alternatively, margaret just vivisected her

[tired herald]

Vivisected?

[untold stump]

Well they knew the Lake has a power related to sacrifices, but we don't know what gave them that knowledge. Did they move to the island because they heard about the Lake's power, or did they just live here and realised "Oh there are cubes in the water"

[azure bay]

objection

[tired herald]

Can you imagine you're going for a swim and you just find a bunch of cubes

[untold stump]

Doesn't Elizabeth still have eyes ? Or sry if I'm misunderstanding what I mean by vivisection

[errant estuary]

medical horror ||vivisection is like dissection but it is on live subjects||

[errant estuary]

goat eyes

[azure bay]

They are a blood cult but they are still a loving family

[errant estuary]

kinda

[tired herald]

Really?

[errant estuary]

i mean, they played charades

[tired herald]

Idk about you but I don't sacrifice my kids and the kids mother in my happy family

[untold stump]

When we give her goat eyes freshly picked out in Locust those seem way bigger than her eyes iirc

[errant estuary]

i know but if i don’t think that, i’ll be kept up by the fact that the goat has HUMAN EYES

[untold stump]

Yeah but they are in a cult which means they could've thought it was for their good, we can't rule love out just because of sacrifices because in a lot of cults you can believe that that's how you show support and care

[azure bay]

they are still a blood cult. That's their religion. They belief it brings a greater good and they are right to some extent.

[tired herald]

Interesting

Ok I retract my statement slightly

[errant estuary]

i mostly came up with that as a fanfics reference to the baby bird that mrs pigeon has

as she has no qualms about experimenting on children

[tired herald]

They did look after the father after he was stabbed through the head

[errant estuary]

yeah

[tired herald]

Makes me glad I'm not part of that family tree

[errant estuary]

i don’t doubt that they do care for each other, but it is still a dysfunctional family

[tired herald]

Oh yeah do we know why they want the mother's memories so badly?

[errant estuary]

i only remember nicholas trying to access a memory, the rest of them kind of just accept the situation

[tired herald]

Majorly but I mean a whole cursed island to yourself has to have some impact on your life

[tired herald]

Oh ok interesting

These games are so weird I love them

[errant estuary]

all of them just go “oh ok giant monster mantis”

also an additional headcanon: they could’ve left but nicholas didn’t want to because of arrogance, as a parallel to exodus

[tired herald]

Hang on what's exodus?

[errant estuary]

egyptian plagues

[tired herald]

Righttt ok

Hm yeah makes sense

[errant estuary]

the rest of them seem to either be acting like weird buffoons or appear to have given up and just kind of walk around

[untold stump]

https://tenor.com/view/man-standing-gif-20655812

The Eilanders when Jakob isn't here

[errant estuary]

honestly mood, i also can’t do shit if i don’t get instructions (i am convinced fuck up, kill people and it will be all my fault(hyperbole))

[untold stump]

Also possibly because they're all aware of the big plan to bbq Jakob and it's been what they've focused on for so long that they just, didn't do anything besides that,

[errant estuary]

elizabeth just sat in a corner when he arrived probably 😭

[untold stump]

Seriously tho, I might be overthinking it but why is Elizabeth the only Eilander who doesn't show in the first plague ?

Maybe the Devs didn't want to introduce too many characters do fast

[errant estuary]

david pushed her into the lake /j

[tired herald]

She probably crawled back into that box

[errant estuary]

autistic mood right there i concur

[tired herald]

I mean there's a reason why they're so loved by many things

Especially cats

[errant estuary]

she’s so calm a frog climbed on her

[untold stump]

Honestly the fact that the frog wasn't scared tells more, I think

[tired herald]

I aspire to that level of ease

[untold stump]

Because the rest of the family doesn't seem to treat frogs greatly, but with Elizabeth it's ok with being on her head, and she calms it down with music. Elizabeth seems to be more connected to nature than the rest of the Eilanders

[tired herald]

True true

[errant estuary]

elizabeth is what ye olde people call a phlegmatic person

[mighty oracle]

Idk if this is the correct chat for this but (without any UB spoilers) whats the deal with laura anyway? Like. The guy tried to become immortal and he turned into/was reincarnated as her?

Actually just in general does someone have a good explanation of RL lore as a whole like a wiki or video or blog post?

Cuz we& know all the individual bits and pieces but we've never been able to mentally piece it all together

All we know is um. Lake want souls? Corrupt people? Guys want immortality? Lotta death?

Dale investimagate ????

Laura needed therapy??? Return to lake????

(Pls ping if reply)

[rigid silo]

i have a google doc of my personal timeline i keep but i dont know how canon it is.

as for laura, yeah i guess. william wanted to be reborn so he communicated with rose to get all the sacrifices needed for his rebirth, however he couldnt come back as himself so he came back as laura instead from what i understand

[mighty oracle]

Rose is who to him? A neice or granddaughter or smth?

[rigid silo]

rose isssss

hang on

[mighty oracle]

We played Roots very recently but it all still is so confusing

Also we dont know why people turn into animal guys

[rigid silo]

his nephew’s (think james is his nephew anyway) son’s daughter

[mighty oracle]

So a great great niece or smth

[rigid silo]

great or grand niece apparently

actually no

you were right

[mighty oracle]

Im so smart (pulled the words out my ass)

[rigid silo]

im getting conflicting information from google lmao

either great x1 or x2 niece, rose is to william

yeah x2 cos a great niece would be his nephew’s daughter but theres another degree of separation

took me a minute but i got there

interesting family tree they have

[rigid silo]

i always assumed this was a side effect of reaching immortality in the rl universe but i may well be incorrect. aldous turned into mr crow when he drank the elixir, jakob i think became mr owl when he was sacrificed to the lake and was granted immortality through that? the others im honestly not sure, again i may be wrong about that whole concept

[mighty oracle]

Ah

That would make sense ig

Though then what does immortality mean? Just not aging? Because clearly in Hotel Harvey killed the lot of them.

I still dont understand the deal about some of the murders and sacrifices tbh.

Like that happen all throughout the series

[rotund gazelle]

I dunno, I just assumed by being one with the lake and being immortal, in turn they kinda became one with nature, hence the animal transformation… or it’s just cool idk

[rigid silo]

it could well be that! i was basing the theory mostly off of cube escape: cave where we see aldous drink the elixir and then become mr crow as a direct effect of that

[rigid silo]

im not sure, that would make more sense. maybe its like immortality through natural means yknow not… a parrot murdering them to eat

[rotund gazelle]

Yeah I think you can still die, but naturally you wouldn’t age

[mighty oracle]

Our brain still has trouble remembering whos who tbh

Lotta guys here

Whos Aldous? Kevin? Mathew? Idk.

We know harvey dale laura and thats it

[rigid silo]

i found it easiest to think of them all in their separate families, the eilanders, the vanderbooms and the vandermeers. like they overlap and interact but keeping them distinct in my brain helped

[rigid silo]

dunno if youre joking abt aldous but hes mr crow, originally william’s brother, he’s the top A on my chart

presumably james’ father as that would make james william’s nephew which we know to be true but idk if there are any secret siblings aldous and william had

[mighty oracle]

Interesting. This is like. Yeah that may help a lot if we ever get the patience to just sit down and analyze the family trees

Im gonna be honest our brain doesnt even like

Didnt even realized the Eilanders and Vanderblooms were separate

Or however you spell each of them

[rigid silo]

the eilanders (eilander name means islander) original rl family who were the weird blood cult we see in rusty lake: paradise (possibly the characters in hotel in human form:

• caroline is the mother, she was sacrificed before the events of paradise, there is a reason but its unimportant to remembering who she is lol
• margaret is the grandmother and possibly mrs pigeon from hotel
• nicholas is the father (and possibly mr deer from hotel)
• gerard is the uncle, nicholas’ brother (possibly mr boar)
• jakob is the first born son, he gets sacrificed during the events of paradise and becomes mr owl
• david is the second born son, jakob’s brother (i believe confirmed to be the rabbit that killed dale’s parents, unsure if this means he’s the rabbit from hotel)
• elizabeth is the only daughter (possibly mrs pheasant)

the vanderbooms (literally “from the tree” are in the family tree:

• aldous - mr crow, william’s brother
• william - aldous’ brother, dead dude, wanted to be reborn, we play as him in roots
• james - as i said, presumably aldous’ son, he starts things off in roots by inheriting the house
• mary - james’ wife
• albert, emma and samuel are mary and james’ kids
• emma has a kid called frank, father of frank is up to interpretation
• samuel found a girl called ida, fell in love, had a kid called leonard
• albert was also in love with ida, he killed her and stole her egg, then he uh. fertilised it, which became rose
• rose realised she could communicate with the dead and helped william be reborn into laura

vandermeers (literally “from the lake”) are dale’s family:

• grandfather
• dale’s mum
• dale’s dad
• dale

the translations of the names make things quite a bit clearer lol, islanders, from the tree and from the lake

and then you get, like. bob. who was laura’s boyfriend before she died and kinda got dragged into the whole thing against his will

apologies for the wall of text lmao

[mighty oracle]

No no 100% thank you

Wheres the theory that the Eilanders are the people in Hotel come from?

Just shapes and vibes or what

[rigid silo]

have you played paradise?

(also oops just realised its of the tree and of the lake, not from but same difference)

[rigid silo]

either way, at the end of paradise on the day of the lake, the eilanders all get animal masks that correspond with the animals in hotel so thats where that theory comes from. i dont believe its proven beyond a shadow of a doubt but this is rusty lake and there arent coincidences in rusty lake as far as ive seen

i must sleep as its 5:36am here but i hope i could be of some help in your understanding @mighty oracle :)

[mighty oracle]

Yeah absolutely go sleep

We played paradise yes

I dont remember if we finished it? I think we gave up at the last puzzle or smth

And yeah 100% you helped a lot thanks

Its not full understanding but its more than i knew like 2 hours ago lol

Its a good start

[rigid silo]

id be happy to give any help i can when i wake again if you have any questions i may know the answer to 💙

[carmine field]

William just wanted to be reborn

[mighty oracle]

He didnt plan for it beforehand tho did he? If rose had to commune with him to have it happen

[carmine field]

The Lake wants memories in general. Corrupted souls are just a side effect. It's pretty vague, but maybe it's to preserve the cubes?

[carmine field]

He did

At least everything indicates yes

Or the laboratory gate would be meaningless

[carmine field]

Animal people is how the Asura, one of the realms of Samsara, is portrayed

It's probably just an artistic choice, but I don't doubt it could be symbolic in some way

[carmine field]

"Immortality" would just be the lengthening of life in the context of the Elixir, I'd say

I doubt the characters are actually immortal as it is contradictory to Samsara

[carmine field]

Chapter 2 of Paradox has an even better evidence

[mighty oracle]

Idk if we ever did paradox chapter 2

I think at the time we werent able to spend money

And so just didnt buy it

And/or we bought it but got stuck and never finished?

Woulda been like 2 years ago i dont rember

[visual coral]

About Laura. The rule of the elixir is "one dies, the other gets enlightened", William got the short stick, but most likely the alchemist bothers foresaw it and planned his rebirth. So using 10 sacrifices he was reincarnated as Laura, but William and his memories are still in her.

I'd suggest Nowherenest on YouTube. He does deep dives in RL games and focuses in theories.

What we know for sure about the Lake is that it needs memories and the memories need the Lake to be preserved. It is also somewhat "alive" according to the devs. The bottom of the Lake is Naraka - the "hell" realm of Samsara

Dale's whole investigation is most likely was set up by the Owl since he needed to bring him to Rusty Lake.

[covert wyvern]

please mind your spoilers @vague imp

if you want to chat without spoiler chats use the #945320126608179231 thread

@vague imp you can find a spoiler guide here: #ub-help message

Also people who Haven't finished Underground Blossom may still want to theorise about other games / may receive notifications and get spoiled.

Now please follow my instructions, failure to do so will lead to a mute.

.mute @vague imp 1h don't say i didn't warn you. stick to the server #✅｜rules

[sweet zephyr]

ak_ciobanu was muted.

[cold plover]

Something's been bugging me. ||In both Seasons and Underground Blossom, Laura goes from being corrupted to being uncorrupted. Does this mean that she once again becomes corrupted somewhere along the line only to uncorrupt herself?||

[sudden dust]

||what year was ub again? if everything before sorrow cross is before spring of 1964 then it makes sense||

||i didnt pay attention to the year in ub||

[cold plover]

||I don't believe a year was ever given.||

[sudden dust]

damn, then i have no clue

if it is before then its debunked

||underground blossom is a fuck ton of years in one game so its not farfetched that sorrow cross is early spring of 1964 or smth like that||

[cold plover]

||Oh! You meant for each time period! I thought you meant wha ttime it is when Harvey actually uses the metro to help Laura. Station 1 most likely takes place in 1935 or a few months after. Laura is extremely young here. Stations 2-3 take place before Spring 1964. Station 4 most likely happens Sometime between 1964-1969. Station 5 is from 1969-1971, with Laura breaking up with Bob and committing suicide in Fall 1971. Station 7 (and probably 6 as well) happen at the same time that Harvey is actively using the metro to help Laura, and are most likely exclusive to that moment.||

That's besides my original point anyway. ||In Winter 1981 (Seasons), Laura as a Corrupted Soul jumps between memories in order to uncorrupt herself so she can continue life onwards from 1981. However, we also see her become uncorrupted in the lake in UB. The only possible explanation I can think of is that Laura was not completely uncorrupted after UB. Similar to Dale after Paradox, she was sort of in-between, and also similar to Dale, Laura is taken from the White Room through the elevator (which we see in UB) to relive some of her memories. This is what I believe Seasons is. The only difference is that Dale was only altering the memories of what happened rather than the actual event. Laura seems to be literally changing the past, because if she didn't that means Harvey could not have appeared in The Mill if he was stabbed before Laura killed herself.||

||Unless Dale really did resurrect his parents from the dead in the real world and I'm just stupid.||

To sum up, if my theory is correct:

• ||The main story of Underground Blossom happens sometime between the Mill and the Cave. Laura ends up in the White Room immediately after UB.||
• ||Either Seasons happens sometime after Dale leaves the room, with Laura having a memory 9 years in the future, or Laura literally sat in that fucking room for 9 years.||
• ||Either way, Laura goes back in time through her memories, saving Harvey from death and uncorrupting herself, letting her live a new life (as she said she would in UB) in Winter 1981.||

[azure bay]

||UB stations merely symbolize Laura's story. The last station could symbolize Seasons||

[azure bay]

I always thought Bob and Laura broke up not long before her lake trip

[azure bay]

Harvey didn't ||use metro literally. Metro doesn't exist, it's a metaphor of Laura life with people coming to and leaving by train||

[errant estuary]

||to me it kind of adds a feeling of loneliness that i get from going on the metro during my lifetime||

[azure bay]

I'm almost sure Seasons have nothing to do with the elevator and Dale's story. I always saw it as a distant aftermath of Dale's ascension (winter 1981 against winter 1972). Laura lost and now builds her own wellbeing.

And ||UB main ending looks like Seasons. I don't think it and the elevator scene have to be connected ||

||Laura said she would live another life, not throw it away on the elixir gamble where the elevator leads||

[errant estuary]

||she’s just gonna go to day of the lake and turn it down ||

[azure bay]

The Past Within has shown that "memories" are just as real as the "reality". The former can modify the latter but only under very specific conditions and in a very specific way. But normally what happens inside cubes, happens only inside cubes.

Technically Dale's parents are alive but only inside the cube. And so is Laura, also inside her cubes of Seasons.

[azure bay]

As I said, she could just die for Dale, go back into corruption and experience Seasons 9 years later. As well as ||the UB ending||

[cold plover]

||I understand this, but the part that convinces me it is real is the fact that you play from Harvey's perspective and the aftermath of the main story (collecting all the cubes). This doesn't seem to be symbolic, Harvey seems to literally be there, helping Mr. Owl. If it is in fact symbolic, what in the world does this represent?||

[azure bay]

The events themselves are somewhat real, the metro - no way in hell.

[cold plover]

||I'm not saying the different stations actually happened. Those represent certain parts of her life. But Harvey actually going to these and helping Laura along the way seems to happen at a specific point.||

[cold plover]

||There is an elevator that travels to a white box in the bottom of a lake, which also just so happens to be a forest. The oddities of Rusty Lake make me think this is another weird scenario. The Metro doesn't seem to have a real-world location, and if it does i don't think that's as important.||

[azure bay]

The elevator is real. It literally belongs to the hotel

it was built like that

but nobody constructed a subway there

[cold plover]

||So if this symbolic journey was specifically about Laura, why have Harvey be the main character in this one rather than Laura? Why have Harvey interact with it like it's real? I understand symbolism but Rusty Lake has made it pretty clear that some of the weird shit that is happening (a fish morphing into a key, a fruit containing a stairway) is real and physical on some level because it is being experienced outside of a memory.||

[azure bay]

even the synopsis supports my claim: "...each metro stop symbolising a piece of Laura's past and future "

[cold plover]

||I'll never understand why these things happen, but it makes me think that on some level, this was a real experience for Harvey. It's almost as if Harvey was going through Laura's memories in different time periods.||

[azure bay]

I agree with this

||Harvey|| is the actor here and Laura is clueless

[cold plover]

Oh, nonono. ||Not saying each station really happened. Those happened in the Metro and in the Metro specifically - they do not represent the real life event for Laura accurately and Laura had no memory of these stations when the event happened.||

||The only stations I believe to be somewhat real (and even then still only happening in the Metro) is Station 7, because The Lake feels like the destination rather than just another station. Also, Laura directly speaks to Harvey by name here and tells him to do something. Possibly Station 6 as well, but that's a long shot and I have no evidence to support that, so I don't really believe it myself.||

[azure bay]

||I'm convinced Seasons are meant to take place some time in between The Lake station||

[cold plover]

||I sort of feel like (unless Station 6 represents Winter 1981 in some way) those two were separate events, because Laura becomes uncorrupted through two different methods. In Seasons, she changes the past (whether in her memories or in the real world) ad uses a machine she presumably built. In UB, it's connected to her finally figuring out what happened to her mother, and being able to live without the same sorrow she felt in her first life.||

[cold plover]

||Although this is arguably less evident than my other points, I still feel like there's a distinct difference that was meant to be noticed.||

[cold plover]

This is probably a better way of phrasing what I meant.

[azure bay]

||station 6 has no way being winter 1981. Laura's meant to succeed there already. Seasons should take place during The Lake because Seasons are literally her cubes floating there.

I ignore different methods because UB is one heck of a symbolic game. Laura can still build a machine, can still change the past but now we know that Rose somehow contributed into that. Either gave Laura will to do all that, or knowledge or even just some blossom Harvey brings in winter.

And the last thing. Laura "living a new life without sorrows" is exactly the ending of Seasons. She changed the past, reconciled with her traumas and lived inside her Seasons cubes at least for 17 years.||

ok, I reiterate the 1st part

||station 6 can be winter 1981 before Laura takes fate in her hands and finds her Seasons cubes||

her low point

[cold plover]

||You can see the Seasons cubes? When?||

[azure bay]

I can't but Seasons are cubes

it's canon

[cold plover]

Oh yeah, I know that.

[azure bay]

Laura has to get into the lake to access them

[cold plover]

There is another possibility, but I really, really don't want to go down that route because of how confusing it makes everything. In the description for the game, it says this:
"Solve various puzzles, find the correct metro to board and uncover one of Laura’s timelines."
Timelines. Oh boy.

[azure bay]

cubes are basically timelines

[cold plover]

Oh yeah I forgot about that. Thank you.

[cold plover]

||I can accept that Seasons is the canonical undoing and The Lake is in fact another station.|| That makes sense the more I think about it.
One question though: Where did you get that specific number of years she stayed in Seasons?

At least 17?

[azure bay]

That's easy

Laura undid her corruption in spring 1964

and the ending takes us back into winter 1981

Laura's still there

I think my math is correct

[cold plover]

Oh. I assumed she just hopped back to the 1981 cube.

There's another question that's been in the back of my mind for a while. We now know officially that ||it was suicide that killed Laura.||

So did she just... survive the attack in CE: The Lake?

[azure bay]

there are several theories

1. Laura was killed by a CS and the lake simply gave her another chance as it did with Dale in the same cabin

2. Laura was killed and was changing her cubes just like in Seasons

[cold plover]

You know what, this would explain the seemingly random alternate ending.

[azure bay]

3. Laura was saved by Harvey and his fireflies but in Seasons she started changing the events, let Harvey free and thus he didn't accompany her to the lake and didn't save her. So Laura needed to change The Lake cube further

[cold plover]

This actually gives me an idea. Hang on.

[azure bay]

I think endings still must follow the laws of the universe. TPW has shown the cubes to be as real as the reality outside them

[cold plover]

||You know how if you go back after solving the 9 cubes puzzle and reorganize them again, you see Mr. Crow take Laura up in the elevator?||
||Maybe this is how she alters her memories. Dale and Laura are both down in the white cube. Dale leaves first and goes through Brithday and Theatre, altering his memories. Maybe this is a process for anyone who undergoes whatever process Dale and Laura underwent down there. Seasons and The Lake, like Birthday and Theatre, has Laura alter her memories. Instead of continuing to the Hotel, however, Laura stays in her Seasons cubes, living a new life.||

[azure bay]

we could construct such parallels. My problem with this, Laura seems to stay in her cubes potentially for the rest of her life. That's why I prefer seeing Seasons as her contingency plan after losing to Dale the elixir gamble in the hotel

[cold plover]

I've seen this referenced. Is there something that makes people think Dale and Laura took the elixir gamble? The only thing I can think of is in Paradox, bt that was in Dale's head, right?

[azure bay]

The elixir gamble is supposed to be in the future

"welcome to the future, one of us will die, the other will find enlightenment"

also the same phrase comes from Caroline's book in Paradox

alongside the day of the lake coming

also the golden cube is created in the same way Caroline made the elixir for Jacob

[cold plover]

So where does ||Laura going up in the elevator fall in the timeline of events? By the words "She is ready" from Mr. Crow and the fact that Mr. Owl was interested in Bob's memories of Laura, it sounds like this may be preparation to play the elixir game?||

[azure bay]

I think it is. Speaking of dates, The Cave and the entirety of Dale's journey takes place in late 1972

I think the climax with Dale and Laura will follow that tradition

[cold plover]

So she is taken up after The Cave, Dale and Laura take the Elixir gamble. Dale wins and becomes the ruler of the lake, while Laura becomes corrupted?

[azure bay]

at least I'd bet on that so far

[cold plover]

So is Winter 1981 a memory in the future, or does she have that memory as a corrupted soul before she starts altering them?

That is, ||assuming they weren't down in that White Room for, y'know... 9 years.||

[azure bay]

memories of the future are possible especially if they are really timelines but I think I still think that memories of the dark soul are simpler and more preferable for Occam's razor

[azure bay]

Dale was not. But Laura could potentially live for 17 years inside the cubes until she was pulled out without time passing outside

[cold plover]

Can corrupted souls still produce memories without being destroyed? The only times I've seen that happen is when one is destroyed.

Any other memories have been extracted from a living person or a dead body.

Or created with energy. Golden cubes are weird.

[azure bay]

I don't think they were actually destroyed. Maybe just ran away losing cubes? Or hiding inside the cubes like the guests? Corrupted Bob gave his memories to Dale in Case 23 no problem

[cold plover]

Oh yeah. Forgot about that.

Wait, if what we've been discussing is indeed true, isn't that the end of the timeline? There will probably be a game or two about the Elixir game and such, but I think what we've speculated so far would be the end of the timeline unless something else important happens after Dale becomes ruler.

[azure bay]

the era will go but I think some stories could still be told either before, during or after it

we're still getting the mammoth game

[cold plover]

Yeah, was gonna mention that.

[azure bay]

we're seemingly getting another Second Maze title related to Case 23?

[cold plover]

The year in that dates so far back that the only think I can think of is the literal origins of Rusty Lake.

[cold plover]

Wait, what? Did i miss a teaser ;-;

[azure bay]

there was nothing substancial

greetings to a new Second Maze employee

with a Case23-esque mind map about Mase, RL and new game

and on the 7th anniversary roadmap there was a Maze building crossed out by the police

[cold plover]

Do you know when this was? I'd like to see ti even if it isn't substantial.

[azure bay]

let me see

it was on July 26 2022

[cold plover]

Found the new member and the 7th anniversary.

[azure bay]

👍

[cold plover]

I think the Case 23 roadmap thing was just for visual representation, don't know if it relates to that or not. As for the Second Maze building, the fact that it's labeled "The White Door' and it was made well after The White Door's release is maybe hinting at a follow up to The White Door. Maybe the aftermath of Sarah's meddling and the downfall of the institution?

[azure bay]

Some things on the road map are about the past but some are definitely about the future. I've just connected Case 23 dots on 2 unrelated 2nd Maze teasers

that's why it will probably be related to Case 23

[cold plover]

Also forgot about the wrench in the gears that is Albert. I hope we'll see where he and the Best Kept Memory foundation ends up.

[azure bay]

Not sure BKM will be prominent but Albert has to be. Probably as Dale's adversary, considering how late he was resurrected and how late he appears at BKM

unless he can somehow timetravel now

ah

the devs promised a new important character

[cold plover]

So basically, the plot is:
Albert's a sore loser who just HAS to be the main character, so he builds a device to resurrect himself in the future in case he's, I don't know, murdered by some scraggly hermit who lives in a well (he was).

[azure bay]

somehow he knew about his death

about the game of chess

[cold plover]

The dude practiced voodoo and some kind of mask magic. Not shocked.

Lol

[thorny wedge]

i mean if i left my little nephew to go feral at the bottom of a well and he got out i'd be counting my days too

[azure bay]

I am because only Ida and Owl have somewhat reliable ways to know the future

[floral mauve]

I mean crow maybe too

in Roots

but not obvious

[cold plover]

I think everyone who is enlightened has some type of weird knowledge about the future.

[floral mauve]

thats what I thought but then thats too powerful

I think they arent certain

[azure bay]

welp, that didn't help the guests

[floral mauve]

blame that on the elixir asura

only elixir gives that power xd

[cold plover]

Maybe they just have a vague sense of what will happen, and then they have to make sure that happens.

And Albert is...
Albert is weird, I don't know how he does half of the shit he did.

In a game about memories and enlightenment I don't know why I'm surprised that voodoo was real.

[thorny wedge]

alternatively mr crow just knew the lengths his brother would go to to get himself resurrected and was like "ah fuck there goes their childhood ig"

[azure bay]

I'd have no problem with that if it was foreshadowed

[cold plover]

James Vanderboom is William's nephew, right?

[thorny wedge]

should be yeah

[cold plover]

So William died and was like, "oh hell no," and then proceeded to inadvertantly cause the deaths of his entire bloodline save for his great grandniece in order to resurrect himself.

Wow.

That is a soap opera plot if I've ever heard one.

[azure bay]

I think that part was vaguely pre-planed

the alchemists knew one of them would die

so they prepared the backdoor ritual for the unlucky one

[thorny wedge]

yeah and mr crow says ||william will be brought back in the minigame at the end of roots i think right||

something like that, its been a while

[cold plover]

That's what we saw in Samsara Room.

[thorny wedge]

that too

[carmine field]

What do you guys think about Mr. Owl's test at the police station?
More specifically, about the white cube.

For some reason, Laura appeared on TV. The white cube is hers. Based on the photos, I think this may have been planned by Mr. Owl, but how and why?

[errant estuary]

where?

[carmine field]

Case 23 chapter 2

It's important to note that Dale knew he needed the memories, as he was guided by the clues Mr. Owl had left behind

One of the memories was Bob's

As per the secret in The White Door, Dale knew that Bob would give him one of the cubes he needed

I don't see how the phrase "I need your memory" would make sense otherwise

[errant estuary]

ah now i get it

[ivory girder]

well we can always pull the "twd is bob's memories so they can be altered" but idt that this is the case

case 23 is probs the most literal ce game so this gotta mean something

[carmine field]

As I said, it is most likely part of Mr. Owl's plan

But I don't know if Laura on TV is literal or not

On one hand, much of the puzzles are pure gameplay

On the other hand, Dale putting the cubes on the TV was literal

The Mill confirms this through the TV and Mr. Owl's letter

[stable oracle]

I have a question that needs answering,

What happens if you get a saw or something and cut open a white/black/blue/ gold cube?

Please help

[azure bay]

Likely nothing

A broken saw?

[stable oracle]

So they're invincible?

[azure bay]

Supposedly

Hmmm

Alternatively

You'll probably cut the cube's content but not the cube itself

[stable oracle]

What if you (this is very silly) send one to the sun?

[azure bay]

Someone inside will probably get really hot

[stable oracle]

Will the cube be fine?

[azure bay]

See no reasons not to. The walls are solid but the matter can more or less easily pass through them

[stable oracle]

So, if you shoot it the bullet just... passes through?

[azure bay]

I suppose so

[azure geode]

What happened to the silver and bronze timepieces?

[cold plover]

Not sure. They're with Leonard and Frank, and those two are probably dead.

[azure bay]

They are not if the cousins are dead

They were separated before the roots entangled them

And basically they entangled them beacause they were separated

[errant estuary]

LALALLALALALALLALALALALAA 👉😀👈

they’re spry, they could survive some wood

they did not live through their lives

just for them to get strangled

by a fucking tree

[azure bay]

Technically I see no reasons for them to die.

For 1, it wasn't clearly foreshadowed. The ritual spoke of 10 sacrifices and 3 timepieces. Why would it need another 2 whole bodies?

For 2, Rose was entangled just as they were. And yet she survived.

But if the devs want them dead anyway, we can't do much

[errant estuary]

i’m going to huff on the copium until their graves appear

[azure bay]

Some say that L.1935 jar in Paradox movie works just as good as Leo's grave

[errant estuary]

then why is it in dale’s nightmare dimension??

when it might be laura’s birth

[azure bay]

I mean, there are other Vanderboom jars with 1st name letters and years of death

[errant estuary]

ah

well, frank might be alive

[azure bay]

If I were to rationalize them, I'd say it was Owl who left them there

[azure bay]

It's like saying that only David became Mr. Rabbit because we don't know real names of other guests. But in the reality, they could enlighten only together.

The same crap with the cousins

[errant estuary]

ok

[azure bay]

Honestly, I'd hate them being killed off too

So unnecessary

[errant estuary]

yeah

guess it is to uh… leave laura with no safety net or support system

[azure bay]

She's already overseas

Dale wouldn't have problems finding it otherwise

The lake I mean

[errant estuary]

oh

i did not think of that

anyways i was thinking of the hotel guests

and that all of them might have desired something as humans

in this hypothetical theory blurb thing, mr deer/nicholas and mrs pigeon/margaret(?) wanted knowledge, mr rabbit/david wanted attention, miss pheasant/elizabeth wanted to be autonomous, and mr boar/gerard wanted happiness

[floral mauve]

Yo Damy

Could you understand what it says the line of words above

I don’t know if it’s Dutch or no simply curious

[covert wyvern]

looks like nothing to me at face value

[errant estuary]

Jjsduj Pjkksdkj

[floral mauve]

I know but the letters

[errant estuary]

Jakob?

[covert wyvern]

i was about to send that lol

[floral mauve]

I know the original currency is based on Dutch currency

Just letters look sus

[errant estuary]

headcanon jakob is dysgraphic

[covert wyvern]

but yea rn id say itsjust random letters

[floral mauve]

Okay thx

Mod verified

Cannon

[covert wyvern]

personal opinion verified*

I think you could see them as the two signatures, Id guess?

[floral mauve]

noooo

[floral mauve]

emmmm maybe

[errant estuary]

Jakob, Picholas

[sweet tulip]

yeah no considering the fact it's a premade font (all the "j"s are the same) it's most likely just an "asdfghj"

[errant estuary]

oh

[floral mauve]

lol

[sweet tulip]

just key mashing to create a Lorem Ipsum

yeah it's just key mashing

[sweet tulip]

also to be more exact it's
Jjsduj Pjkhsdhj

[sweet tulip]

wait wtf is this layout where Z and Y are inverted ?

W and Z, is a thing

but this is weird

anyway

[errant estuary]

i’m still going to headcanon mr owl as being an awful speller

[floral mauve]

cuz I think thats german or dutch keyboard layout

[sweet tulip]

huh

well that's surprisingly more accurate than i anticipated

[floral mauve]

german keyboard layout y and z exchanges

[errant estuary]

oh and it’s got ä and ö

[sweet tulip]

didn't know QWERTZ layouts were a thing
only knew of QWERTY and AZERTY

[thorny wedge]

what do you mean w and y get inverted??

[azure bay]

english keyboard is qwerty, german is qwertz

[thorny wedge]

im czech and ours has y and z inverted as opposed to the english one

[sweet tulip]

french is azerty

[thorny wedge]

goddamn

[covert wyvern]

Starting to think this may not be about Rusty Lake anymore

[sweet tulip]

also the M is next to the L instead of next to the N

anyway

[thorny wedge]

oh right rusty lake chat

i was thrown off by alternate keyboard arrangements please ignore me we can carry on

[errant estuary]

ANYWAYS: eilanders ranked by spelling

[sweet tulip]

Dutch keyboard layouts are very important to the timeline, you're just not thinking deep enough /j

[azure bay]

just make it obvious it's a joke and pray

[floral mauve]

despite of the keyboard thing, Idk multiple j and then du doesnt seem to be spamming to me idk

[thorny wedge]

i think david would use leet speak if he were a modern teenager

i assumed the money was just gibberish too tbh

my keysmashes are messed up like that too

why is it quiet all of a sudden

[errant estuary]

so true

elizabeth in a modern setting would probably be trying to teach herself braille

[thorny wedge]

i'm convinced she was the only literate one in the family and nicholas got jealous so he blinded her ||(also the real reason he killed caroline)|| /j

speaking of showers do. do the eilanders bathe. if so how. do they use the lake water, do they purify it, do they import it cause dont tell me the lake water's safe to bathe in

[sweet tulip]

tf did I just watch

[errant estuary]

i headcanon that jakob, nicholas, margaret and caroline did know how to read

[errant estuary]

probably by boiling the water

[floral mauve]

not sure about margaret

[errant estuary]

i think she might, because they seem very isolated

[floral mauve]

nah purify is weakkkk

[errant estuary]

this is mostly headcanony, but i’d think that they’re pretty backwater, because of the doctor in boils being very outdated

[floral mauve]

purification wasnt probably a thing until early 20th century

or late 19th

[thorny wedge]

i mean if they bathed in the lake then no wonder they're so lost in the sauce ig

[errant estuary]

nicholas ruined the clip 😕

[errant estuary]

hey, question: did the cult on paradise cut heads and take the cubes out by hand??

this is fucking me up

[floral mauve]

well dont think so, its just describing that they know cubes from brain plus they burnt her and got the cubes overflow

we still dont know the internal mechnism of cube extraction

[errant estuary]

FREE LOBOTOMY AT PARADISE ISLAND

i mean

what

so this is why mrs pigeons electrocuting a baby pigeon

i think

HOW THE FUCK DID CAROLINE PUT A CUBE ON HER PLATE

[floral mauve]

well ehm maybe but fun fact

white cube was firstly discovered by mrs pigeon technically

[floral mauve]

we have never seen a white cube before (exclude the big one under the lake)

[errant estuary]

Mrs pigeon invented psychology /hj

[floral mauve]

I mean theoretically speaking

she didnt find it but she proposed the idea

[errant estuary]

honestly, i’d believe it

[floral mauve]

also I just noticed one thing

[floral mauve]

why is it 8

@azure bay

[errant estuary]

to let in my teenage mutant insect brother

[floral mauve]

I mean some people did propose the idea that some memory cubes arent Caroline's

but I personally feel its unnecessary

[errant estuary]

this is why i think margaret was a “scholar”

[floral mauve]

also even if its 10, how would Caroline know how many cubes she produces

[floral mauve]

i dont get it

pigeon isnt margaret

as knowledge speaking

[errant estuary]

right

[floral mauve]

their memory either got sealed or reset

[errant estuary]

yeah

true

so i think that the eilanders died and reincarnated in the order of the guests ages

gerard dying first, then nicholas, then margaret and david, then elizabeth

just because it’s mildly amusing to imagine elizabeth making a peace sign when she’s by their graves

[azure bay]

Because it's a puzzle

[errant estuary]

hey nowhere got any idea how caroline extracted the spooky cube she put on her plate

[azure bay]

Some seem to have ascended with smoke but not sure if it was the only way

[errant estuary]

because the book has the sketch of cutting a head open, but i’m unsure of if that’s it

[azure bay]

Neither am I. Cutting head open with a knife was in the other book. This one is rather about extracting memories from a brain. Which may or may not stay inside its skull undisturbed

[errant estuary]

i’m still trying to think of how

it is fucking me up so bad cause i don’t get it

[azure bay]

Could be some kind of a ritual. Could be sole kind of sacrifice. I wouldn't go too deep into speculations

But I'm adding your question to my list

[errant estuary]

also uh… who’s heart was it nicholas was droppling on jakob’s head

[azure bay]

No idea. Not sure if the devs themselves thought of that

[errant estuary]

i’d think a pig heart, (they’re nearly identical to human) or another family member had a transplant

[azure bay]

welp, they are already ok with burning people, I wouldn't be surprised to see a human heart

[untold stump]

I mean more likely an animal heart just because they have animals on the island and for humans it seems like not so many come through

[errant estuary]

yeah also look at how most of them treated frogs

[untold stump]

I mean they seem to be keeping them to harvest their meat, frogs can be killed because there's a lot of them but for the cow and the goat Jakob just took small pieces of them and kept them alive. So they probably have a breeding so that they have food, and they'd sacrifice the oldest ones to get the heart and other organs for rituals

[errant estuary]

yeah

[errant estuary]

also the fact that all of the livestock survives the extraction is so fucking disturbing

[vernal mantle]

Anybody else notice in the paper with the Crossword Puzzle, In the "No casualties at metro crash" article, there are incorrectly used apostrophes in the article that spell out "||MEMORY EXTRACTION||". I don't know the significance but it's interesting 🙂

[carmine field]

it's a puzzle of the ARG

the entire page has secrets

[azure geode]

Nah, just the writer's accent

[vague imp]

So I have pretty much of the story down, how they are using Dale and Laura to make a golden cube, and Crow and Owl are manipulating Dale. But so, what’s going on in 1981 in Seasons. Laura is dead by then. Why is there mechanical stuff all over the place, and how does she witness it? I know there’s time travel stuff with the Blue Cube, but how does that correlate? Like if she just dies by 1971, presumably by suicide, how the heck does she make it to 1981 to see her house all mechanized. Who or what did that? And if there is time travel involved, when she destroys her corrupted soul in 1981, how does she still end up dead?

[errant estuary]

she got her own timeline, and she gets to decide her fate

[vague imp]

Well it’s good to know there’s a timeline where Laura didn’t get screwed over by everything😂

[errant estuary]

yeah

[azure bay]

I tend to think that the normal ending of UB ||reflects Seasons too||

[hollow drift]

So, are these two really the same person but ascended basically? If we take this as a precedent, it means the guests killed at the Hotel were truly the Eilanders? Either they became enlightened after sacrificing Jakob to the Lake to become Mr. Owl, thus too becoming immortal anthropomorphic beings, or they reincarnated and were all brought to their old homeland in order for memory extraction, and their animal looks were purely symbolic. The reason I gave that latter point is because the guests seemed like they had no idea what they were getting themselves into, they thought it was just a simple vacation going to that lake. If they were the Eilanders with full recollections of their history with Rusty Lake, they would probably know better. I just feel like there's a connection between these groups that I can't quite grasp.

[errant estuary]

||i think that the implication is that when he was corrupted, he regained his memories as David, and began to infiltrate society||

[hollow drift]

Do you mean in Birthday when he left a note justifying his action by saying he had to obtain a substance from one of his past lives?

[errant estuary]

yeah

it’s also interesting that the rabbit is often considered to be very astute but small, and it has to outwit

and he is the rabbit

while for example deer are considered noble

with a hint of pride

[hollow drift]

The only guest we have seen the actual face of is Mrs. Pheasant, who shows up in Theatre, she looks different from Elizabeth Eilander, thats partly the reason why I proposed the idea of them going through several stages of rebirth, or Samsara.

[errant estuary]

i think that the hungry ghosts can shapeshift

[hollow drift]

Possibly, we haven't seen it in person though, so far I can only recall Mr. Owl & Mr. Owl being able to do that

meant Mr. Crow

[errant estuary]

but that was from wikipedia, take my words with a grain of salt

the thing i know about the hungry ghosts is they are incredibly desperate

[hollow drift]

They also apparently balance the substances of past lives, we saw it with Caroline, we saw it with the Lady of the Lake, it is also written in Paradox, so I hypothesize the purpose for David to get these items is so he can pass on, they are stuck in a limbo unable to reincarnate nor become enlightened. Buddhism is all about rebirths until you become enlightened enough to be one with the cosmos.

[errant estuary]

i think about this statement and text post a lot
https://www.tumblr.com/dreaming-voices/178564153713/some-eilander-siblings-headcanons-ive-been?source=share&ref=beindumbonthelakebro

[void wigeon]

So like I know some people think that Caroline was a good mother and stuff but when you think about it she really really wasn’t. She just protected her favourite kid. She probably knew of the eilander tradition and instead of leaving her research and taking the kids she just sent Jakob away with little to no hope of surviving. No connections or nothing. She didn’t even think to send him with anything. Bestie literally waited till the last minute to save her son. I really think that she wasn’t a good mother. Not in the obvious sense of Nicholas probably being bordering in abusive which a lot of people think but she was more an enabler who just let it happen

[azure bay]

She was the one who made him Mr. Owl. If not for her Jakob would just die but she played 4D chess and outsmarted everyone.

[carmine field]

I wonder if there is a meaning behind these acronyms in Cube Escape: Arles

RL probably stands for Rusty Lake and has already appeared in Harvey's Box with a question mark

[void wigeon]

I’m not to sure maybe they are just random squiggles ? I can’t deny they do look like they have some meaning

[azure bay]

looks like rl

at least the cubes

and the tag

[errant estuary]

this tbh

i do not think she cared as much for her other kids

or she’d send them off as well

but no

[void wigeon]

If she cared about Elizabeth or David she would have done something else . even if she didn’t know about the firstborn thing how could she be so sure they wouldn’t go for David or Elizabeth? There was enough room on the damn boat

[errant estuary]

given their reincarnations, elizabeth and david definitely did not get much attention /hj

[azure bay]

she knew about the 1stborn shenanigans

she knew much more about the lake and everything related than Nicolas

[errant estuary]

“i did it, i saved jakob!”
“your other kids are still stuck on the island”
“this isn’t about them”

[void wigeon]

That’s why I said even if she didn’t. She didn’t know evrything and only didn’t want to risk her favourite kid

[void wigeon]

LITERALLY

[azure bay]

If anyone in the series was to know everything, it's Caroline

she knows what the lake wants

she knows how it works

she discovered the elixir

[errant estuary]

i wouldn’t be surprised if elizabeth simply hit her head and broke her eye nerves at this rate

[void wigeon]

She might just have cataracts my mate has then and he’s going blind already. You can kinda see the cloudy look in them

[errant estuary]

right

this is from what i know about my dad

for him it got worse when he hit his head

he still sees but he’s at risk

[void wigeon]

It’s like a trapped nerve or something in the back of the eye that causes it Idk

Wait that would be so sad. She would only be able to see for so long then suddenly everything is just blurry then one day everything is just gone and all she has to rely on is distorted memories to picture things clearly

[azure bay]

she seems pretty much ok with her blindness

[errant estuary]

yeah, it seems like it was just an ordinary thing that suddenly happened

[azure bay]

I'd say, she's paranormally ok with that. It's still a horrible disability for most people

[void wigeon]

I can’t imagine being able to not see. Probably because I stare and don’t ahev the best hearing but still. I wonder how long she was blind for

[errant estuary]

i don’t know, to me she seems more dissociated

[void wigeon]

She does seem very in a world of her own in the game

[errant estuary]

the kind of thing where everything is too much and you just retreat

[azure bay]

I'd say, she perceives more than normal people would

[errant estuary]

nah she just knows that jakob is gonna die and trying to drop hints for him without telling him his family is going to set him on fire /j

[sweet tulip]

cb might be cube, but thinkgs like ql, wm, and hn, I have no clue

[errant estuary]

also people rag on david too much for the low blood sugar thing, i got that a few times, and it’s real scary to experience i wouldn’t recommend

[void wigeon]

“Jakob…the drama here is gonna get pretty HEATED here soon. I wouldn’t want you TO GET BURNED by all the FIERY drama y’know?”

[azure bay]

1st RL experiment with movie crossovers in Paradox, then with UI and narrative in TWD, then 3D and multiplayer in TPW, now it's the subway.

I wonder would they run another experiment with a blind protagonist?

[errant estuary]

“if you see an owl, DO NOT TOUCH IT”

[void wigeon]

I think David just has diabetes. David is legitimately a teenager who grew up in a crazy cult with only his family and his probably terrible parent. Bro has a reason to be an ass. He’s also just a teenager like of course he’s gonna be annoying

[errant estuary]

i’d probably imagine it to be a text heavy game

[errant estuary]

so true

the fact that he’s so calm while having low blood sugar is like, actually an achievement, i freak out when i get on the low levels

[azure bay]

I object.

The Eilanders are a blood cult but they are still a loving and caring family. That's simly their religion that has somewhat proved itself for generations

Well

Except for David

And most of the time Gerard

[void wigeon]

I just imagine him slumped over the table since he’s just like “idk what it means having low blood sugar but if that’s what it is then it’s what it is. Also why do I feel so weak”

[errant estuary]

hey, gerard was watching nicholas when he was hurt

[void wigeon]

Counter argument. All of them watching their older siblings die keeps them in place. It’s a generation trauma thing and it’s just a cult

[azure bay]

They didn't see their older sibling die until the very end

[errant estuary]

i do think that it’s regardless of intent a very dysfunctional family