🤔｜theories

[steel imp]

Every 10 days?

He's assuming that the plagues are recurrent

[azure bay]

didn't you notice that Paradise takes place across an entire year?

[steel imp]

Third, they would eliminate the need to sacrifice Jacob in a precise moment

[visual coral]

That's literally just the eclipses

Nothing supernatural

[steel imp]

An eclipse with blood moon every year

[azure bay]

you don't call "just the eclipses" plagues

[steel imp]

It's still supernatural

[visual coral]

I mean the prophecy

[steel imp]

Fourth, it could have been done generations ago

@azure bay are these enough reasons?

[visual coral]

The Day of the Lake happens after a Solar and Lunar eclipses that happen one after the other

[steel imp]

With a literal blood moon. That literally bloods

All normal to me

[vivid bridge]

yeah but thats just rusty lake weirdness

[visual coral]

That's the plague

[steel imp]

But that weirdness is supernatural

However this is not the focus of the argument

[azure bay]

First, they eliminate the need for Jacob
Not really, he's still their 1stborn. And integral part of the 10th plague

Second, they would make THE Day of the lake A day of the lake
See no problem. If your cult is built around the promise of enlightenment in exchange of a special sacrifice during a special day, they have to repeat at least sometimes.

Third, they would eliminate the need to sacrifice Jacob in a precise moment
Still no, they will be the precise moments you need to kill Jakob at

Fourth, it could have been done generations ago
And what's the problem with that?

@steel imp

[azure bay]

The plague is called Darkness

so darkness is the plague

and the cube eliminates it just like any other plague

[vivid bridge]

can I just shit on the rusty lake wiki real quick? They list Mr. Rabbit in Birthday as Mr. Rabbit but then they list him in Paradox as "David wearing a mask"

[visual coral]

A Solar eclipse powered by the plague magic

[steel imp]

1. the need for him to solve the plagues
2. ok I'll give you that
3. they could have chosen a diffrent year, maybe when he was more mature and not a little baby
4. that then we would have seen a spree of asuras all around Paradise island

[azure bay]

leave it alone. It's written by random people.

[vivid bridge]

we're all random people

[steel imp]

No. We are theorists who have ample discussion about the matters that triggers us more

In a wiki that doesn't happen

[azure bay]

1. Don't see how that contradicts anything.

2. I don't get the part about choosing.

3. Not necessarily, the guests pretty much spread out and if not for Owl they probably wouldn't ever return

[azure bay]

I prefer to believe that we actually THINK about the lore before writing about it. And also TEST the theories in discussions

but that gives us no more power than to random people

[steel imp]

1. if the plagues were recurring, all members of the family would have been instructed on how to deal with them appropriately, and they would have invited Jacob directly the 10th day, stopping him from interacting with Caroline
2. It's clear that little Jacob didn't understand the nature of sacrifice for a greater good when he was a little boy. If the plagues were recurring, the family could have just chosen a diffrent year to properly instruct him, and maybe start the sacrifice in adulthood
3. The guests spread out because they didn't have anyone else to be with. If another generation of Eilanders was there, they would have probably stayed

[vivid bridge]

I mean, just from playing the game, its pretty obvious that the plagues are caused by Caroline's memories not being in the lake. And again, stuff like Death of the Firstborn, Boils and Flies aren't really plagues summoned by the lake and more just events that coincide with the plague's pattern

[azure bay]

1. Nicolas would prefer to keep her memories.

2. Jakob had nothing to say at all back then. It was Caroline who stopped them.

3. They likely don't even remember who they were.

[azure bay]

well, a person suddenly turning into a giant carnivorous fly does look like a legit plague

[vivid bridge]

well yeah but its more still part of the Lice and Gnats plague

[azure bay]

I'd rather think that some plagues are the direct cause of the others

[vivid bridge]

The lake didn't give Gerard those boils, he got them as a result of Diseased Livestock

[azure bay]

you may stop the plagues but you have to stop their effects separately

[steel imp]

1. But Jacob is a pretender, and with him around it could be more difficult
2. He didn't have anything to say because children aren't capable of intending and of wanting
3. Of course they know. Mr. Rabbit knew his name was David Eilander in paradox.

[vivid bridge]

What i'm saying is that the plagues can happen due to a number of reasons. They can magically appear due to the lake, they can be consequences of other plagues or they can just coincide with a shitty dad's plan to sacrifice his son. We should view the plagues more as a prophecy

[azure bay]

1. pretender for what?
2. What I'm saying, sacrificing him as a child wasn't worse than sacrificing him as a more indoctrinated adult. Maybe even better.
3. That was after he "died" twice. Laura didn't remember a thing too until she got back her cubes

[pulsar kernel]

What I mean by the cycle is their version of the circle of life that allowed William to come back as Laura.

[azure bay]

what are you talking about?

[steel imp]

1. pretender to the cubes. Corrupted souls are like humans, they don't have steel-strong will, not for an eternal period of time. Withlut Jacob interfering, Nicholas would have probably got access to the memories by now
2. it was, because it caused Caroline to turn against them
3. But you're comparing an asura to a ghost. Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl perfectly remember their past lives and they have only lived two states

[steel imp]

I asked him to elaboraye

On a message that he sent this morning

This one

[steel imp]

You can't make another samsara. The method that William used was perfectly fine and didn't break any natural law. It was needed not only for William to uncorrupt itself, but sinxe he lost his body, he needed to be completely reborn

Did you send the message by error @azure bay?

[pulsar kernel]

Ahhhhh, my bad. I read that more as a bad thing, then good

[azure bay]

1. Why are you even talking of corrupted souls? I'm just giving a reason why the Eilanders wouldn't give away the cubes. Caroline's formula would be the best way around Jakob. But since she hid the last cube, they had to rely on good ol' 1stborn sacrifice

2. Originally Nicolas didn't even consider her turning against the ritual. She was the unexpected problem. Jakob wasn't a problem at all. For Nicolas that opportunity to kill him off wasn't worse than any other one.

3. Owl and Crow, unlike the Eilander were enlightened by the elixir, not the lake. Ellesian has his reasons to doubt the guests being them. Because the guests don't show any knowledge of their past. Nothing about their home being occupied by some entrepreneur, nothing about them being a family, for some, even interests and personalities drustically changed. Either they don't remember a thing or the devs have poorly written the guests' origin story

[steel imp]

1. I think that Caroline CS is blocking access to the cubes as being the rightful possessor
2. Then instead of barganing his wife's life desperately he could have just waited some years
3. But that's speculation. They don't show off knowledge of the past because it's not needed. You are a service man in an hotel. They might choose a different room for comfort. Besides, it's not like the original Eilander family had strong family valhes

[pulsar kernel]

I think it was because they’re corrupted souls were like newborn babes (literally and metaphorically) where they would then take on new forms and new personalities and perspectives

Just my idea

Don’t fully quote as I could be wrong again

[azure bay]

1. She doesn't. All she can do is hide them and ask Jakob not to let the others use them. Nicolas was literally digging through her cube.

2. She proposed to sacrifice her instead. For one reason or another, the considered that as an option. There was never need to wait until Jakob has escaped.

3. They could still stick together on their island. But no, for one reason or another they all pursued new lives and let some "outsider" take it over

so I expect everyone that was enlightened before them to do the same

[steel imp]

1. we see that nicholas couldn't access one
2. and it turned out against them. I really wander how could that be possible
3. to do what? I repeat, there was nothing left on that island for them

[azure bay]

1. I see, that he successfully entered it and was only looking for the right element. He was clearly in trance.
2. I'm not saying that Nicolas isn't an idiot. I'm saying that from his perspective there was no need to wait.
3. You were saying that thir predecessors would have family. But so would they. They still had each other. If that wasn't good enough for them why would it be different for the others?

[steel imp]

Electricity has came back in my house

1. He wasn't in trance. He was focusing.
2. I claim that Nicholas isn't an idiot. I claim that occasion was his only chance to sacrifice Jakob
3. It's true. I change my perspective. I claim that if there were ancestors to the Eilanders that lived in the island, they would have moved out, and so the Eilanders couldn't have been born

[azure bay]

1. Whatever it was, it didn't look like failure, he was calm and very focused.
2. It doesn't have to and it clearly wasn't. There was no objective reason to rush things up. And Nicolas definitely tried again 16 years later. And succeeded, for that matter.
3. The cult used to be bigger, according to the painting. I think that was the reason it was dying out.

[steel imp]

What painting of the many?

[azure bay]

the one with the prophecy

Paradise in Darkness

[pulsar kernel]

Paradise in Darkness

[steel imp]

1. Because he was focusing. That he has a great patience is irrelevamt
2. if there was no reason to rush, then we come to the point of before? Why don't wait?
3. But you then have to do the stretch that a lot of asuras that we never saw were part of this cult

[azure bay]

1. It didn't look like failure. Period. So it's not enough to tell that Caroline had control over it. And if it was the case, there would be no need to ask Jacob to stop him.
2. I'm telling ya, that was just a good moment and it was available. No need to think about it much.
3. That's not that much of a problem in this specific case. They are irrelevant and not at all specific. Plus, Hotel already implied a lot of asuras. Pheasant and Rabbit need enough of them in their audience just to stay in business. Plus, Boar is a real ambassador among them.

[steel imp]

I can understand your 4th point

But the 1st and 3rd are just silly

[azure bay]

Dude

explain me please

why the heck would Caroline ask Jakob to do something about the family using her cubes if she had control over them?

[steel imp]

"It didn't look" is subjective. Your "good moment" lacks evidence

[steel imp]

As I said

She has not a will of steel

She can't do this forever

She needs somone to continue her journey

Or to end it

That's how Jacob it's a problem

It helps Caroline to keep out Nicholas

[azure bay]

1. There's no evidence of Caroline having such control. Not even slightest.
2. As a matter of fact, they just used that opportunity. And used it again 16 years later. That means that there were at least 2 different opportunities and could be more.

[steel imp]

As I said, the opportunity allows only for the "9th" and "10th" plague to be generated

Not the other 8

[azure bay]

this is just counter intuitive

[steel imp]

Explain yourself

[azure bay]

they are all called plagues, there were always 10 of them and all 10 of them are depicted on the ancient well, there's no need to separate them or change this concept in any other way

it's overcomplication

[steel imp]

I'm not saying the plague are 23

I'm saying that they play in a diffrent order

All the times

[azure bay]

no, there's an established order, and the devs followed it to a letter

[steel imp]

We already argued about this

[pulsar kernel]

I think they have a good basis as Mr Owl needed a replacement, aka Jacob, therefore, there could be evidence that there was someone before him

[azure bay]

assuming otherwise is an unnecessary overcomplication

[steel imp]

Our cultural reference don't need to have an inpact over the Rusty Lake lore

[steel imp]

What?

Mr. Owl is Jakob

[pulsar kernel]

I know, but in the White Door (don’t quote me on it as my memory’s bad) but I believe he was having talk of a successor or something of that?

[steel imp]

Yes

[azure bay]

They clearly do onscreen. There's nothing that justifies it being otherwise offscreen

[steel imp]

He needs a successor

Might be Laura or Dale

[steel imp]

Explain yourself

But most importantly

Explain why you are playing paradox for half an hour

[azure bay]

the plagues that we witness follow the established order to a T. Assuming otherwise for those that take place behind the scenes is just unnecessary

[pulsar kernel]

He’s right, they follow the Bible exactly

[azure bay]

just in the background

[steel imp]

The only confirmation you have to back this up

Is Jakob

[pulsar kernel]

It might be that it’s a refeence in our world, but slightly altered for Rusty Lakes timeline

[steel imp]

Which witnessed the plagues from his perspective

[pulsar kernel]

Another example is Van Gogh

[steel imp]

Oke

[azure bay]

it's not Jakob, it's the game

the game tells us that these plagues correspond the biblical order

[steel imp]

He denomies the plague with a numbered order

Not the game

The narrator is a present Jakob

Not a future one, or the game itself

[azure bay]

there's no one to listen to his story except for us

therefore, the devs speak through him to us

[pulsar kernel]

That is true, but I cannot shake the uncertain fact that it follows the Bible perfectly with the plagues

[steel imp]

You can't say that

He isn't knowledgable enough to be considered accurate

[azure bay]

we are his audience, there no one else

it's not Dale or Laura or Matoran of Mata-Nui island

it's us

and Jakob wouldn't speak to us if not for the game

[pulsar kernel]

Wow…..

Tbh, I can see that

[azure bay]

then

[steel imp]

I'm convinced that what we hear at the start of any plague is Jakob thought

Not a monologue for an audience

[pulsar kernel]

It’s just his thoughts, I think?

[azure bay]

but the plague announcements are definitely out of the universe

[steel imp]

No way to prove this

[pulsar kernel]

As I’ve played most Lake games and there hasn’t been any fourth wall breaks besides the fact of name dropping or inserting things from our universe

[azure bay]

yeah, just imagine Jakob sitting on the shore and mumbling about the plagues 👍

[pulsar kernel]

Just Rusty Lake modified

[steel imp]

I'm.not saying that's mumbling

[azure bay]

dude, that's just a chapter announcement

I'm not going to argue about that anymore

[pulsar kernel]

A thing that I’d like to say, is that I don’t necessarily think it would be Dale, as I believe he served his purpose, but it would be cool to have him back. I think they’ll continue with Laura, but Dales a good contender. Either one would work as the Lake and cubes need a Mr Owl figure to contain both things from spilling over

[azure bay]

and that is just denagogy

We have an established cultural meme. The events we witness perfectly correspond that meme.

wait

[vivid bridge]

Are you still arguing about this

[covert wyvern]

.mute @steel imp 1h read the server #✅｜rules , that's enough.

[sweet zephyr]

MrCrowIsBald#9508 was muted.

[pulsar kernel]

They are, in fact

[azure bay]

could you please give a bit of explanation?

what exactly was wrong so nobody repeats that

[covert wyvern]

they're new, they're rude, they're spamming.

@pulsar kernel your input wasn't required.

[pulsar kernel]

Of course, I’m sorry

I didn’t mean to but in

[covert wyvern]

you an get back to your theories now

mrcrowisbald will be back within the hour!

[pulsar kernel]

Thx

What do you guys think of my theories?, just curious.

[floral mauve]

Damn it’s paradise day I guess

Hundreds of messages on paradise

Man I don’t wanna scroll up that much any summary for lazy me

[pulsar kernel]

XD it’s all good g

[vivid bridge]

something about whether or not the eilanders knew about the plagues and the timeline of the game

like when was caroline killed, what causes the plagues, etc

I eventually left the conversation but based on quick glance, seems like nothing really come of it

[floral mauve]

[pulsar kernel]

Nope

[steel imp]

In case you are wondering, me and nowhere continued the argument in PM, and I gave up for lack of evidence

[steel imp]

I think you are somewhat unknowing of some of the events that happened in the game, I'm convinced that you have not played all of them.

For example, you were theorizing about Mr. Owl wanting an heir when that was already confirmed in Paradox, or you seemingly not knowing that Mr. Owl was Jakob.

It would be solid reasoning if you had a deeper understanding of the games

[pulsar kernel]

I agree as well, I’ve played a few and watched a few

I’m done for today anyways

I thought I said I knew that Owl was Jakob?

Maybe because I did the normal spelling?

Idk

I also haven’t played all of paradox, but watched all of the White Door

There, happy?

[azure bay]

I somewhat envy you

[pulsar kernel]

Why do you envy me?

I was only responding to your question

[azure bay]

I'd like to unsee Oaradox just to play it again for the 1st time

[vivid bridge]

ehh

I can take or leave Paradox

It's kinda cool but its too heavy on the puzzles

The forest part is really cool, tho

[frosty wolf]

i honestly find the forest part slightly infuriating though the atmosphere outside compared to inside is much better

[vivid bridge]

yeah

[frosty wolf]

(i am reading all 300+ messasges above me rn lol)

[steel imp]

First Paradise, and then this. You should have a copy of Paradox right next to your Grandma's cross

Jokes aside

[frosty wolf]

bro chill what if..what if...Ellesian doesnt even like Rusty Lake???

[vivid bridge]

I only like Case 23 Chapter 3

[frosty wolf]

the simplest puzzles on earth moment

[steel imp]

Paradox is actually a great game that refreshes the character if Dale Vandermeer with a completely new design, actually gives insight on why Owl is actually acts how he acts and draws further paralellism to Laura.
It also helps explain a little bit The Cave, and it has great puzzles over all

[steel imp]

You really like the slide painting puzzle?

[azure bay]

it refreshes the whole series with a new design

[frosty wolf]

Paradox is honestly one of my favorites (putting aside that that was the first game i played from Rusty Lake)

[vivid bridge]

its a joke but also yeah I like the slide puzzle

[steel imp]

Me too. It is probably one of the most popular RL games, if not the most popular one

[frosty wolf]

it likely is, since its got a film paired with it, which draws in more players sometimes

[azure bay]

how do I depict subjectivity?

[frosty wolf]

art. (idk what im saying)

[steel imp]

That's the only puzzle that after years of replaying Case 23 is always a pain that shockwaves through my whole boyd

I don't have to open the wiki for other games

But that thing

It scares me

[frosty wolf]

same

[steel imp]

"A1 A2 A3 B3 B2 B1"

[steel imp]

Once in a replay I confused the columns with the rows and viceversa and I gor the puzzle wrong two times

[vivid bridge]

Before Hotel came out, I used to speedrun all the cube escape games all the time so eventually I got the hang of sliding puzzles

[frosty wolf]

i literally watched the walkthrough at the slowest possible speed and switched back and forth the vid and game

[steel imp]

It's clear that the person playing it

It following instructions

He stops, then he looks, and then he continues

Not even the staff is BB enough to solve it

[frosty wolf]

i mean, im pretty sure whoever made that puzzle didnt memorize the entire thing either

[azure bay]

more or less the same

[terse niche]

The slide painting puzzle.... I still have nightmares about it

[azure bay]

It's not even 4x4

[stone bramble]

in paradise the cubes jakob finds are caroline's right. but when we see into them we sometimes see jakob's memories. So does looking into someone else's black cube show you their own bad memories including your own as well. Or does it mean caroline secretly saw those times where nichloas talks about sacfircing jakob

[vivid bridge]

Good point. I guess she was present during those scenes

[visual coral]

Actually, the first memory we discover - who does it belong to? Caroline is dead already, Jacob would be gone by then. Unless it's a completely different kind of sacrifice.

[carmine field]

I believe it belongs to Caroline too. Though she is dead, her corrupted soul roams the island

[visual coral]

Probably

[steel imp]

Cubes are a wide problem

First, cubes assumed to be from the same person have inconsistant PoVs

Second, their creation is unclear

They are supposed to be created by memorg extraction of a person

However in Roots you can craft them with alchemy

Third, their potential is unclear

They are hinted to be incapsulated memories

[azure bay]

Well, Seasons and The Lake were always about "Phone + Fuel = change the past" and "you could still change your fate by finding c code"

[steel imp]

But more recently they are supposed to be parallel realities

[vivid bridge]

I think the Seasons box in The Lake is purely for gameplay reasons and has no story significance

[azure bay]

I think otherwise. What are you gonna do?

[vivid bridge]

I think i'll get myself some lunch, thanks for asking

or rather dinner

[steel imp]

What is your timezone?

[vivid bridge]

western europe

its 8 pm

[steel imp]

I'm from italy

And I'm dining rn

[azure bay]

The secret Roots level is a big reference to the Alchemy game. And the cubes are references too. Notably, the white one refers to The Lake. And the black one is just a white cube corrupted by a crow

[vivid bridge]

yeah they're not really accurate to how cubes actually work

maybe you could argue that these are empty memory cubes but I wouldn't go that far

[steel imp]

However they have not signifcant difference visuallu, so assuming that they are reference cubes lacks evidence

[azure bay]

but they are references

you literally use items from The Lake featured in the cubes in The Mill

[vivid bridge]

going back to the lake thing, I could see the endings of The Lake being like the "the lake gives you another chance" thing from Case 23 but we don't really have any proof of that. It might just be a gameplay thing

[steel imp]

I don't doubt it, but I claim they work just as others

[azure bay]

sometimes, the explanation beyond the lore is enough

these cubes are insignificant enough to be taken as just an eater egg

maybe when we get a different, more reliable case or some confirmation by the devs, we'd have more reasons to have headaches about it

but personally

I already have several dozens of questions more important than that I'd like to ask

to resolve such stalemates like grandpa-Crow

or when Caroline died

where was Harvey's box during The Lake

are we getting a game about Mr. Rabbit

[vivid bridge]

the real question is not why Harvey's Box wasn't in The Lake, its why the box is still there in Case 23

Presumably Laura would take the box back home

[azure bay]

what answer do you expect?

[vivid bridge]

None

Laura has giant muscles and carried all her belongings home with her bare hands

Idk man

If we're gonna be overthinking stuff, we might as well be overthinking stuff

[azure bay]

she could've fled in panic

[vivid bridge]

I mean, it depends on when Harvey's Box takes place

Is the CS from that game the same as from The Lake

[azure bay]

I think, UB could kinda answer that

[vivid bridge]

true

[steel imp]

As I said I was dining

[steel imp]

They're signifcance to lore developing is of no matter

We've saw them being created via items that correleate to them

Dismising these as pure easter-egg replicas is too much

[azure bay]

it doesn't make sense

[steel imp]

Exactly

I haven't argued to the contrary

[vivid bridge]

Okay but whats the alternative? What memories are stored inside these crafted cubes?

[steel imp]

Yes.

[azure bay]

they were created using the items that will have meaning in the future only for a person that isn't born yet

[steel imp]

Of course, but considering these cubes aren't neutral, but have instead a specific color makes them used, not just foreshadowed

[vivid bridge]

if you could just craft cubes like that, they wouldn't need a body harvesting operation to feed the lake

[azure bay]

if something doesn't make sense, doesn't make big difference and isn't highlighted enough, I prefer to instead think of things that do

[steel imp]

A big difference there is though

[steel imp]

.

Besides, if you wanted to create just an husk, you could have used the same proceding once

Not two different ones to obtai two different cubes

[azure bay]

what do you mean by a husk?

[steel imp]

The cube husk

An empty cube

[azure bay]

I'd call it a shell but ok

[vivid bridge]

I don't think you could make an empty black cube

if its empty, why is it "bad"

I think we can just file these under "easter egg, not important"

[steel imp]

That's my point

[steel imp]

Except you can't. For as much this being an easter egg, that's still a real black cube

If you wanted a replica you could just make a glass cube and black paint

But specific correlated items where used for its creations

[azure bay]

the level itself isn't exactly real. The brothers made the elixir using Caroline's formula. That's what the book in Paradox movie say

the whole minigame is just a fun reference

[steel imp]

However it still follows RL physics and chimics as normal

Until proven the contrary

[azure bay]

no, it's your burden to prove that these obscure cubes that were created in a weird way and not in a slightest affect the story to be real

in rusty lake we can rarely trust our eyes

[steel imp]

But when we do it's mostly when that's a cube

When you do that with the reality you end with slip ups

Like with Albert's masks

[azure bay]

We have Bob's shot and Albert's mask but at the same time we have Emma's search that has no way happening in a single season of fall 1891

[steel imp]

Why not?

[azure bay]

2 reasons

1. she witnesses a much later event, fixed in the RL lore
2. searching for 1 month, writing a goodbye letter then waiting for 5 years to finally commit suicide is just stupid

[steel imp]

1. ok that's an inconsistency
2. it's of no matter, you are minimazing the human psycology, the loss of someone it's a very heavy thing to process, and it might have taken her five years to finally commit to suicide

[azure bay]

she wrote the letter, she took the decision. 5 years are just ridiculous

It's way better to instead see her searching for 5 years, witnessing the event with no inconsistencies and the devs being smart

[steel imp]

She might gave changed idea, maybe trying too, but the loss was too hard to overcome and after five years she reused the same letter

I see nothing wrong with that

[azure bay]

she didn't only write it

she's sent it with a magical bird

[steel imp]

What

No, wait a minute

Are you talking about the letter in The Search?

Look for me in the stars isn't a direct reference to suicide

That was literal

Like what we see diring Rose level

William literally solves puzzles in the stars

I claim her mother made a message there

[azure bay]

sorry, in her case, it is. Otherwise she'd have no way to get there. You don't need to make 10 assumprions when you can make 1

[steel imp]

.

Ancestors were capable of doing that

I claim that those puzzle are literal as The Search

Thus ultirourly confirming my theory

[azure bay]

no, you are wrong

[azure bay]

what does confirm that?

or rather

wait

let's go even earlier

Living people don't send messages via stars

[steel imp]

There's no way that it was just a coincidence that in the puzzle of the costellation Aldous Vanderboom face just popped up

[azure bay]

because he's not a human

he's an asura

and she's a soul

both supernatural

and use supernatural means

[vivid bridge]

Emma gained magic star powers when she got impregnated by a flower

[steel imp]

^^^^

Jokes aside

[azure bay]

a bigger leap than saying that she just died, and according to human believes. joined stars

[vivid bridge]

I was making a joke

[azure bay]

he isn't

[vivid bridge]

actually, Frank never sees her in the stars. It's William who sees her and he's a corrupted soul. Maybe there is some ghostly connection going on there idk

[azure bay]

he'd take any crazy explanation instead of the most simple and rational one

[vivid bridge]

I mean, thats you too a lot of times

[steel imp]

It's not only Aldous Vanderboom

That hides his face in the sky

[azure bay]

Introducing a bunch of unseen asuras or unseen copy of the world isn't rational

[vivid bridge]

I mean

yeah

[steel imp]

We see Emma's face too. I claim that's what the message

A way for the traumatized child to remember her mother

I think Emma already thought of the worst, she didn't think her child was alive

[azure bay]

she literally helped him to find the valuable treasure

[steel imp]

However if he was he would have lived alone

[azure bay]

it had to be her

it had to be because she died

it had to be because she wrote that in the letter

[steel imp]

There's no proof that she didn't organize this ahead of time

I claim that the power of star drawing isn't related to Asura powers

But it's a well known tecnique between living Vanderbooms

[azure bay]

There used to be no proof that the Earth isn't in the center of the universe

[steel imp]

Just like Albert'z Voodoo

[steel imp]

And that was just a possibility as valid as the contrary, however there weren't means to test it until Galileo

You can't prove this isn't the case, however I can't still prove that is

[azure bay]

the thing is, the burden of prrof in on the claiming side. You claim something complicated, be so kind to provide a proof

I claim that there is a time skip in The Search

I give my reasons

they bring in harmony

[steel imp]

You have to enter my logic

I think that everything we see in the reality is pretty much literal

Albert's masks for example

[azure bay]

that's not the logic to find the truth. That's the logic to write fanfiction

the devs craft the story

[steel imp]

I claim that The Search is literal

And I also claim that the Find me in the sky wording is literal

Which is confirmed to be

[vivid bridge]

I think the devs might have just done a mistake with the dates

[azure bay]

and you have to make ton of excuses so it does make the bare minimum of sense

[steel imp]

However, you claim that in this wording, also suicide is confirmed. You are claiming that this wording includes two meanings

Now, my explanation is simpler

As I claim that the wordinf fits only one meaning

It fits with my logic

And has only one minor time contradiction, that one being your first point

[steel imp]

I admit I'm out of ammo to explain this

[azure bay]

No, mine is simpler and lives in harmony with the established lore.

1. She has knowledge
2. she has to pass it to Frank
3. when people say that they go to the stars they usually mean death.
4. when a desperate mother says that she means suicide
5. "preparing messages in advance" requires additional evidence you don't have
6. she actually commits suicide
7. my way fixes the dates and provides an aestetically pleasing continuity

everyone benefits from that

Emma's character

general timeline

common sense

ok, only the eyes don't

but more often than not they deceive us

and so do the game devs with a limited variety of narrative tools

and so do the game devs that have to put puzzles for those who are not excited by the story alone

@steel imp

[steel imp]

1. She had enough knowledge that she eredited that from the ancestors
2. Indeed, and she does this
   3-4) however it's not, Frank literally solves out stars. You are implying a double meaning that is additional. You need evidence to back that up
3. It's true, I have no definitive evidence, but saying that Asuras and CS have both the linked capability of stars manipulation is at fault of evidence not only by proving this power is related to the supernatural nature of one, but of both
4. Five years later. If she actually dies five years later, then the "Find my in the stars" is even more unrelated from her death. It also helps hinting that she prepared that in advance, as suiciding 5 years later with that message delivered to Frank is useless.
5. Your reasoning fixes a date that could be developers lore fault. If you claim that the entire envoirnement is deceptive and not literal, I claim that only a date is at fault

And this brings benefit to lore building

As we can rely on thinfs we know to be actually real

Emma's character fits here too

Common sense is a poor choice of words when talking about RUSTY LAKE

And the general timeline benefit you claim is minimal compared to 3 centuries of lore

I prefer having a stable ground than fixing a minor date issue

[vivid bridge]

Why are you always arguing about these pointless topics

[steel imp]

Because of yes

[steel imp]

Others topic we tried resulted mosy into drafts

[covert wyvern]

This conversation is over now.

you both take a break or you get a mute

[vivid bridge]

wow

[covert wyvern]

theorising is fine but arguing whether or not topics are pointless is just server drama we don't need.

[vivid bridge]

fine

[azure bay]

we just continued in dm and came to a resolution

[grizzled bluff]

That's fine, we said we didn't want server drama

[carmine field]

About Underground Blossom:

I believe that while the pink ticket belongs to the Demo/Lite version, the white ticket will be the version present exclusively in the full game. The colors match the game's icons (pink for the Demo/Lite and white for the full game), which makes me suspicious.

Also, in the Demo/Lite version we can already notice many places that could have something, but that we don't use in the game. Examples are the second booth and the statue pedestal. Because of this, I believe that the full game's puzzles will be partially or completely different from the Demo/Lite version, perhaps even removing the Best Kept Memory station (which is plausible because the internet connection makes the game slightly heavier).

One of the possibilities of divergence between the versions is that we'll use the second booth instead of the first booth in the full game.

[floral mauve]

or alternative path

we see white and pink flowers

very sus

[terse niche]

pink ticket?

Can you get a pink ticket from Underground Blossom? Where? For the train that Mr. Crow appears?

[ebon aspen]

The old lady gives it to you

Not ultra pink, but pink nonetheless

[terse niche]

Interesting. I imagine it has something to do with The Past Within? I finished it so many times... I don't remember what color it was last time

Could someone send me a video or image? I would use this in my own videos and give credit. If you can't, no problems, I will replay and record

I have a file with all puzzles of the past and future, bee and butterfly just for that. If anyone is interested I'll share

I've been sleepless for 3 days trying to finish the ARG video. I'm looking for the strength to replay The Past Within all over again

[ebon aspen]

Some ppl theorized that the UB ticket being pink and the one in the cave's submarine being white could be a nod to ||rose's fates|| in tpw, but imo theyre just random paper colors so far
Really prefer to wait for the final game to see the whole thing

[terse niche]

hmm

I never got a pink ticket and I played the demo several times.

Do the colors of the flowers in the intro change for you? Mine are pink

[carmine field]

this ticket

This is the pink ticket ^

As for the white ticket I talked about, it only appeared in a Rusty Lake announcement before the demo was released

#📯｜rl-announcements message

But it's possible it's just different sections of the game

and that both will appear in the full game

[carmine field]

for some people, the flowers are white

mine are pink too

[ivory girder]

if they keep doing this demo thingy with future games this will most likely be true

does tpw demo have something like this? i forgor

[carmine field]

tpw demo is completely different from the actual game

[terse niche]

@carmine field Thank you!! Can I use it?

Curious... I wonder if The Past Within has something to do with it...

[carmine field]

of course yes!

[carmine field]

just in case, the ticket is named "underground ticket", as you see

(the ticket does not appear as selected because I took this screenshot right after I got the item)

[terse niche]

Nevermind, my ticket is pink too.

[visual coral]

Two ticket booths, different colored tickets + the decription of the demo do suggest there could be branching timelines, maybe like with the BKM. And the ticket(or whatever that was) in the Cave with the Golden Cube makes me think about the cube room at the bottom of the Lake where the GC was created. Idk if that makes sense.

[maiden pebble]

I don't know what talk is going on but I got something completely different from the previous messages. Either this theory is amazing or tell me something that I didn't thought about and ruin my theory 😦 .

The theory is that the whole time is in a cycle or they are stuck in a paradox like if know time travel and things. As in the game paradise which is the first game according to timeline. The timeline is gravely impacted by the imagery of owl when the mr. Owl was not even made or they might have known about the owl importance in future or something else.
Other thing is there is visual of mr. Crow who was not even born in human form, Harvey in the bird form who was converted into bird form after some time in hotel and most important Dave and Laura, bro what the fug they are the latest character they're fathers would be kid at that time. And one other thing that there is the cube shaped box in the lake bottom which is used way further in timeline.

So my theory is that owl, Harvey and crow and somehow Dave and Laura and the box shaped room exist in past or they travel to past or there were always there
I know my theory is completely broken after I write it. Please correct anything you like

[azure bay]

But Laura is Crow's brother William

[maiden pebble]

Ohh yeah

But still he was not born at the time of rusty lake paradise

[azure bay]

here's my version

Owls are just sacred birds in the cult of Paradise. Maybe even some supernatural creatures but we don't have much evidence to back this part. (also a different owl species from Mr. Owl)

Mr. Crow in Paradise is just an easter egg. (pretty literally)

I don't know what the big cube is, but in The Cave it doesn't seem a big deal.

Dale and Laura are just the next generation of the ruler of the lake and a sacrifice he needs to be created

[maiden pebble]

Bro you just destroyed my theory. 👍 🥲

[visual coral]

welcome to the club, bro

[maiden pebble]

Well onething I came to know as a Hindu and pandit. That this franchise is heavily influenced by Hinduism

Many things

Are based on Hinduism

[azure bay]

many think it's rather based on Buddhism

[maiden pebble]

Well actually Buddhism is a branch of Hinduism

Not a branch just was extracted from Hinduism

And many signs used in game are used for astrology in Hinduism

[azure bay]

what do you mean exactly?

which symbols?

[maiden pebble]

Wait i have to find a photo

Like these:
♈︎ ♌︎ ♊︎ ♋︎

[visual coral]

that's western zodiac signs

the only concept from Buddhism\Hinduism really used in RL is Samsara

[azure bay]

also enlightenment to some extent

[visual coral]

yeah

[maiden pebble]

Actually I just found them to be used in a 1000 page handwritten old book that was kept in my house as my grandfather was a great pandit(Indian priests) and the signs are used in the book for some weird things

[visual coral]

Don't quote me on this, but as far as I know these symbols are used in Vedic astrology too. So that might explain it

[azure bay]

Either way it's something more general than Hinduism

The devs are got to know it from a different source

[steel imp]

Symbols are arbitrary. I could argue that the circle with a dot in it is collegated to ancient egypt and that Mr. Owl is Ra.

[azure bay]

we're not even speaking of them

[steel imp]

You are seemingly correleating them

[maiden pebble]

Bro your profile pic make me believe it

[steel imp]

I read from this messagge and the wall of text that started the conversation

[azure bay]

I think he implied the zodiac symbols from the Darkness calendar in Paradise

[steel imp]

This, to be precise

[vivid bridge]

I can't look at zodiac signs anymore without thinking about homestuck

damn you, hussie

[steel imp]

Yes, yes I understand. But the fact is thag the same symbols are used in more cultures, and the one we are talking about are very simple to draw. Usually one symb as two correlations associated with it or more

I'll make a more relatable example

The "cool S,"

https://tenor.com/view/cool-s-letter-s-cool-tubb-stussy-s-gif-21182785

People draw this as kids without even realising that it's worldwide phenomenon

However in their conscience they've came up with it

It's already tricky to attirbute meaning to symbols

Immagine correleate them to an individual or a group

[maiden pebble]

But using all the symbols means that they really signifies zodiac signs not some drawing that they came up by themself

Like here in this picture

[steel imp]

And? Astrology might have Hindi origins, but it's not confined to that religion

The cultural meme refers to astrology itself, not to hinduism

[maiden pebble]

But some other things also are based on Hinduism like the samasra

[steel imp]

But that's not exclusive to Hinduism no more

[maiden pebble]

And the Sanskrit words like देव

[steel imp]

You are right

There are indian elements

Like the language

But it's a great leap to base your argument on it. By the way, if you correleate Hinduism instead of Buddhism or what else

What js your point?

You identify the origin of the cultural reference

How does it fits with your argument

[maiden pebble]

Yeah there is no big reference to Hinduism. I can't say so confidently unless I find something big

Later

[steel imp]

So let's go back to your theory

[steel imp]

You claim that the past leads to the past itself

That the time is a circle

Like in the Paradox machine

[maiden pebble]

Yea

[steel imp]

You base yourself on imagery, a Mr. Crow easter egg

And

Harvey

[steel imp]

About this last one

Have you played all RL game?

[maiden pebble]

Yea

[steel imp]

Then you will know

[maiden pebble]

I might not remember some small parts of games

[steel imp]

Cronologically Harvey as been:
Parrot (Paradise)
Asura (Hotel)
Parrot (Birthday)
Asura (UB)
Parrot (Seasons/HB)
Asura (TPW)

In completely different parts of the franchise

[maiden pebble]

Ohh

In ub he is asura?

Where

[steel imp]

Ops

Might have spoilered you an easter egg

[maiden pebble]

Bro how you know?

[steel imp]

You are playing as Harvey

If you unlock the box of the man in the bench

You get a photocam

You give that to Laura

It takes photo of you

You put them in the photo haul

You set the clock 20 min further

And you see Asura Harvey

[maiden pebble]

Ohh

[steel imp]

We don't know right now what to make out of thay

However, this is to say that Harvey is a mess lore wise

And it's better leaving it alone

[maiden pebble]

Harvey is confusing he might have ability to turn anytime he wants

[steel imp]

That would make no sense. If he had this power without Lake duty he could just be god or whatever

Coming back to the Owl

[azure bay]

for now I say he isn't that much of a mess. Only Paradise-Hotel transition is actually weird. The rest pretty much has some mundane explanation

[steel imp]

You could just hypotize that the prophecy explained that. It's also into Caroline's book in Paradox. Caroline knew about it.

[steel imp]

By mundane explanation you mean "it's just an easter egg"?

[azure bay]

yes, sometimes, things like these need no other explanation

just the devs teasing us

either with familiar images

or foreshadowing the future of the franchise

[carmine field]

Indeed

[woven harness]

Is asura the god of creating evil?

[carmine field]

asura is basically anti-god

[woven harness]

Ohh thank you

I never understood anything about harvey

[frosty wolf]

and am quite sure none of us do either

[vivid bridge]

No I do understand

[frosty wolf]

oh?

[vivid bridge]

I'm just not telling you

[visual coral]

the devs called asuras demigods

[frosty wolf]

HAHAHAH

[frosty wolf]

"its a secret"

[vivid bridge]

[steel imp]

An Asura is a being capable of longevity and extended access to the lake conciousness

They're not necessarely anti god

[vivid bridge]

And becoming delicious

[carmine field]

and they seem to have some supernatural capacities too

[steel imp]

Actually, Mr. Owl is working just to create one

[steel imp]

As I said, extended access to the lake conciousnezs

There's no supernatural besides Albert magic

There's just the lake

[visual coral]

Specifically the Owl, cause he's backed by the Lake magic

[woven harness]

I never understood what was harveys purpose, spoilers : ||i know he helped mr owl kill his family (if im not wrong) in paradise and in the ub demo i understood we play harvey and it makes sense because in the cubes seasons harvey was always with laura until we kill him||

[steel imp]

Mr. Crow is no different. Owl is the boss because he was the first in line

[steel imp]

Harvey is Mr. Owl henchman just like Crow

[vivid bridge]

Maybe we will find out more in UB

[visual coral]

I don't remember Crow ever reviving anyone from the dead

[steel imp]

We still don't know if Harvey was revived

[woven harness]

I thought crow was the main guy but it turned out he was a part of it only, the real master is actually owl 😂

[steel imp]

The same action was done with an unconcious Dale

[woven harness]

I dont understand why was dale involved, is it only because he was investigating?

[steel imp]

No

[woven harness]

OHH

his parents

[steel imp]

Because he's Owl best bet

To become the deva

[vivid bridge]

Owl wants Dale to become the next ruler of the lake because Owl is dying soon

[steel imp]

The other pretender is Laura

[carmine field]

I disagree. Mr. Owl made Harvey be reborn, teleported Laura's body in Case 23 and levitated the sleeping Dale in The Mill. Meanwhile, Mr. Crow watches the Vanderboom family unnoticed by them, only by William, a ghost

[steel imp]

Nobody dies in RL

It just migrate his state

[steel imp]

I repeat

[vivid bridge]

A lot of people die in RL

[steel imp]

Mr. Owl did the same thing witb an unconcious Dale

[steel imp]

Death is permanent

[frosty wolf]

okay but for now only these asuras and gods and what-not the entire vanderboom family died bro

[steel imp]

Nobody is permanently unconcious, and this not dead

[steel imp]

You claim that Dale was resurrected during the Mill?

[woven harness]

Yeah

[vivid bridge]

Most Vanderbooms are dead, the police guy and Dale's family

[steel imp]

But not permanently. Albert got resurrected in TPW. William is now Laura. Rose is willingly a Naraka

[frosty wolf]

no ofc he was unconscious during that time

[steel imp]

If there's resurrection, then dead is cancelled out

Going out of coma and being resurrected are no different

[frosty wolf]

oh i get what you mean now its like when people die they can just corrupt and resurrect, right?

[steel imp]

But the same exact action was performed with Harvey. Same T pose, same beam. Harvey is not necessearly "dead"

[visual coral]

I'd say Rose is in Nirvana. You're stuck in Naraka. Nirvana is how you escape the Samsara

[steel imp]

More or less

[frosty wolf]

yes i know that

[steel imp]

So Mr. Rabbit escaped the samsara?

[vivid bridge]

Well it was a memory mr rabbit, not the original

[steel imp]

Then determining that Harvey was killed is impossible

[visual coral]

We don't know what happened to Rabbit for sure. I think he was reborn

[frosty wolf]

i dont think ive ever said that

[steel imp]

You played TPW

I know you did

There's no other plausible explanation

Cubes keep going without Albert machine

[steel imp]

He has become a tree

That blossomed

What does that remind you of?

[vivid bridge]

We don't know if that state is Naraka, tho

[steel imp]

So you are assuming that's Nirvana

[frosty wolf]

nowhere said that he wasnt sure about Mr. Rabbit literally becoming a tree though, if im not wrong... maybe Mr. Rabbit just withered away and the tree was just some symbolism

[steel imp]

Rabbit has lost

[steel imp]

Symbolism isn't a thing for me

[woven harness]

We play as rabbit in samsara?

[steel imp]

No

Samsara Room

And samsara

Are two different things

[woven harness]

No i meant the game

[frosty wolf]

oof but isnt a TON of Rusty Lakes' stuff symbolism? for example the coins on the eyes

[steel imp]

You play as qilliam

[steel imp]

No. That happened

[visual coral]

He was going after the pistol - the substance of one of his past lifes. And balancing the substance is the way to escape the state of preta, which he is. Roses became a tree and their souls blossomed cause Albert wanted to escape from the cubes

[steel imp]

No we wasn't. If he would, he could have just taken the coin and get it

And escape the cube

[frosty wolf]

yes but it was some sort of reference to like that one thing with the river styx and stuff though it did in fact happen with Albert and Albert was corrupted it still symbolizes something

[steel imp]

Just because it's a reference doesn't mean it doesn't exist

I'm ok with retet3nces

[visual coral]

The pistol is gone after he left. And there's a note

[steel imp]

But he got shot

[vivid bridge]

The Roses and David both left their respective cube and then became a blossoming tree in the lake. It's clearly the same process, no matter if its nakara, samsara or just some other bullshit

[steel imp]

He lost

[visual coral]

It's the same pistol from the Hotel

[steel imp]

Dale got the blue cube

He fd up

[steel imp]

Yes. Indeed

[visual coral]

I had a theory that the trees act as some sort of a gateway to escape Samsara

[steel imp]

Now, there are 2 possibilities: or it's naraka, or it' deva

I don't think that you ascend as a tree

[vivid bridge]

yeah deva is gonna be its own thing

[steel imp]

So it's naraka. Rose got into naraka willingly. The "trap" that actually grants you eternal peace

[steel imp]

The trees are naraka. Living beings don't act as doors, for the most part

[vivid bridge]

I just don't think the devs would just casually put the Roses into hell

[steel imp]

You are seeing it as hell

It's subjective

[vivid bridge]

well thats literally what the word means

but yeah

[woven harness]

Its not hell?

[steel imp]

Ofc

[azure bay]

depends

[frosty wolf]

(woah hello there) (i will be leaving this conversation)

[woven harness]

Hello

[visual coral]

According to samsara, trees would be a part of the "animals"

[vivid bridge]

Outside of them using the lake forest as the symbol for Hell, we don't really have any evidence that the trees are Naraka

[steel imp]

But in ancient cultures there wasn't paradise and hell, there was just hades. Hell. It might differ from Buddhism, sure, but I have no better explanation

[steel imp]

No. According to samsara trees are naraka. Naraka is reppresented by trees

[vivid bridge]

On the other hand, Theatre specifically uses a question mark for Deva cause we don't know what it looks like, which implies that the lake forest is Hell

[steel imp]

That's called suspense

You cannot just figure the franchise with the uncomplete series

If that would be possible you lose a big portion of money

But yeah

[azure bay]

we're getting contradicting data

[steel imp]

Explain yourself, magic man

[woven harness]

Me the whole time reading : 🤯

[azure bay]

it's called hell, kinda looks like it but not quite

[vivid bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/jfk-clone-high-i-like-your-funny-words-magic-man-jack-black-gif-18659433

[steel imp]

But hell is not biblical in buddhism. It does not hijack the damned minds into torture. It inflicts physical one. Masochist exists, or in our case

Meth heads

[vivid bridge]

the thing is, based on David (bad) and Rose (good) being there, i'd say Hell is more of a neutral area but that's what Nirvana should be

[steel imp]

I have no better word for describing Albert

[woven harness]

I thought nirvana was a state of peace of mind

[azure bay]

maybe dead trees do suffer there

[woven harness]

More than just being neutral

[vivid bridge]

okay but then why is Rose there

[woven harness]

💀💀💀

[steel imp]

I presume you have read the Divine Commedy

And you are refering to the fifth circle, section 2

[azure bay]

well, she's the only tree in blossom, something is different about her

[vivid bridge]

David blossoms too, though

[steel imp]

On second thought

It grows leafs

[azure bay]

that's not confirmed. I see the tree in Birthday rather representing Dale's state of soul

[woven harness]

Where do you guys see the trees and the blossoms 😭 is it in the end of the games

[steel imp]

You have a direct case when that's literal

Qhen someones becomes a teee and grows thinngs from it

[vivid bridge]

Could be both. Maybe originally it was supposed to be just a metaphor but then for TPW, they repurposed that idea

[azure bay]

David may not become a tree, the tree was there before. He just died and his life force channeled into it

[vivid bridge]

yeah true

[steel imp]

Might have been the case for Rose, too

[vivid bridge]

No, the Roses became a tree

[woven harness]

Is the rabbit in hotel david too?

[frosty wolf]

ohno

[steel imp]

Just like Rabbit

[azure bay]

It's the community consensus, let's say that way

[vivid bridge]

🌹 + 🥀 = 🌳

[vivid bridge]

I don't think so

[steel imp]

Just because his old body still exists doesn't mean its soul is still there

[woven harness]

Perfect thanks

[steel imp]

Who is deleting messages?

[visual coral]

Roses weren't corrupted

[steel imp]

And?

[vivid bridge]

I don't think David was corrupted, either

[steel imp]

David was

[vivid bridge]

:)

[steel imp]

We already did this

[woven harness]

It was @azure bay they just combined their two messages in one

[azure bay]

you have to explain all these vides and hints

[steel imp]

Oh ok

[visual coral]

Different intentions - different outcomes

[steel imp]

That isn't how samsara works

[vivid bridge]

I've already explained my reasoning many times

[steel imp]

We don't know how samsara works

[azure bay]

about him looking like a CS and the chest saying he's a CS?

[steel imp]

And we've already discussed back and yku ended up with whiskers

[vivid bridge]

yeah cause i'm right

[woven harness]

Every time i come here and chat i find more things about the games, i always think i know enough but i never do

[visual coral]

The devs clearly don't follow samsara to a t

[frosty wolf]

please stop we have already done this

[steel imp]

I'm not talking about buddhist samsara

I'm talking about RL samsara

We don't know how that works

[visual coral]

We can make assumptions based on what we see

[steel imp]

Have you played all the games right?

[visual coral]

bruh

[steel imp]

Ok so

There Asuras becoming animals, animals becoming nothing followinf the succesfull elixir, people getting corrupted in all the way possibles but then we've got also Asuras getting corrupted (?), and then there's naraka which is good but is bad, we don't know what deva is, animal are sentient but also not sentient, and apparently, there's a samsara room.

And don't get me started on Harvey

[azure bay]

Harvey is relatively weird but you tend to overthink him

[steel imp]

I tend to consider everything I see true

Including Harvey's easter egg

[visual coral]

did we ever saw asuras transforming into animals?

[steel imp]

That's my franchise phylosophy

And most often than not it gets confirmed

[vivid bridge]

what if Harvey is a deva

[azure bay]

Poor fellow, Rusty Lake will mangle you beyond recognition

[steel imp]

Weren't you the one who claimed that Harvey was resurrected as an animal?

[vivid bridge]

I mean, thats the implication

[azure bay]

transforming and being reborn aren't exactly the same processes

[steel imp]

It would be a delusion, but also it wiuld remove Harvey's from my RL problems

[visual coral]

transforming

[steel imp]

I don't care

[azure bay]

well you should

[steel imp]

I didn't use that word. I said become

[steel imp]

(For the sake of this argument)

My point is that we don't understand samsara in RL

[azure bay]

but we have a lot of cases to make predictions

[steel imp]

I said I won't talk about Harvey, so I won't talk about Harvey

[vivid bridge]

sam sara

I figured it out

[steel imp]

F

[woven harness]

WHA

[woven harness]

🤣🤣🤣

[visual coral]

I have no idea how you argue with people like this all the time. This is so mentally draining

[frosty wolf]

its what he does

[azure bay]

there was an assumption that Sarah is a false name as if she's "SamSarah WhiteDoor"

[woven harness]

Guyss chill we’re just discussing and exchanging ideas

It’s ok to get heated sometimes

[steel imp]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-laptop-drake-gif-21716481

[frosty wolf]

some people take this very seriously

[steel imp]

That's the objective

Stress the opponent that much that it flees

[frosty wolf]

woww

uh oh

[steel imp]

Just kidding

[frosty wolf]

someone is here

[steel imp]

Ofc

[woven harness]

HAHAHAHA

[covert wyvern]

.mute @steel imp 24h glad you admitted to that, take a timeout

[sweet zephyr]

MrCrowIsBald#9508 was muted.

[frosty wolf]

o

[woven harness]

Om

Rip

[visual coral]

daaamn

[vivid bridge]

wait what did they say

[covert wyvern]

Continue creating a toxic environment like that at catch a ban.

And*

[frosty wolf]

ah no stressing people out no intimidation i suppose?

[covert wyvern]

That much should be obvious.

[vivid bridge]

I feel like that was a joke

[woven harness]

Yeah it was

[covert wyvern]

And I feel like I didn't ask

[woven harness]

But its not our place to judge

Its damy who judges

[covert wyvern]

It's obvious theories has recently once again devolved into a toxic cesspool

[woven harness]

They’ve seen more so they know more 🫡

[covert wyvern]

Adjust your Behavior or be permanently removed

It's that simple.

[woven harness]

Sorry

I just have so much respect for you

@covert wyvern is there a way i could talk to you privately?

[covert wyvern]

Dm me

But don't just dm me "hi" please. Explain what you need and ask your questions

I ignore all dms that don't immediately get to the point I don't have time for that, haha.

[woven harness]

I already do that so don’t worry haha

[azure bay]

For some reason, now I AM scared

[visual coral]

lmao

no one can ban u in the dm

[frosty wolf]

blocking is a thing

[covert wyvern]

Either way, in this case I'd ignore rusty lake logic and simply forget to past;)

[stone bramble]

||I think harvey would’ve been colored in if he was the underground blossom protag. Like what’s the point of leaving him as a silhouette like in the shadows. I think it was a lil easter egg because harvey always shows up in rusty lake games ||

[frosty wolf]

||or more like the devs are hinting at us who we're playing as and just leaving a dark shadow||

[stone bramble]

||the photo of the shoes laura took were colored in so if that was harvey why would they color in his bottoms and not the top of his face||

[azure bay]

||except we've got teasers related both to Harvey and the blossom and there was nobody else Laura would take pictures of. Plus the hand would suit Harvey||

[frosty wolf]

||cause it was a silhouette/shadow||

[stone bramble]

||I don’t think i’ve seen those teasers. do you know where we can find them? ||

[azure bay]

you need to 100% TPW achievements and wait until the ending

[stone bramble]

ah

[azure bay]

plus...

kinda roadmap

[frosty wolf]

Harvey is next to the blossoming tree (even though that's from TPW)

[azure bay]

it's an extra emphasis for those who didn't get it the 1st time

lol

but honestly, so much effort just to show us Harvey

seems like an underkill

but to show us the mysterious protagonist

now we're talking

[frosty wolf]

yea.. however, i'll let PurpleMcgee COOK TYPE

[stone bramble]

||the perspective of laura’s photo just throws me off 😅 like why does harvey look like he’s 4 inches tall ||

[frosty wolf]

Laura sucks at taking photos i guess....

[azure bay]

she tried her best you critics!!!!

I've got a new theory

You two are the root of her depression and death!

/jk

[carmine field]

agree

[terse niche]

Also, Laura takes 4 pictures doesn't she? One of them is missing. And there's a picture of a mysterious person's feet. It seems to be Mr. Crow for the clothes, but you can't really tell.

UB I think it's a merging of || Harvey's || memories when he meets Laura at different times in her life in the subway as an asura.

[rigid silo]

lauras photography career had a rough start sure ||but i do still think its to tell us we just play as harvey in UB||

[terse niche]

Maybe the same with the ||Best Kept Memory distribution center ||

[rigid silo]

||damn harvey crotch shot in the theories channel||

[carmine field]

Mr. Crow's shoes are kinda different too, even after the redesign

[rigid silo]

||i like the picture of rose btw shes just chilling there. love her||

[terse niche]

In the photo we know to be ||Harvey|| he is a silhouette. Seems to indicate they are different people perhaps?

[carmine field]

probably not, there was no one else around

[terse niche]

It can be the same in The Past Within. We know that ||Mr. Crow and Harvey|| can be seen in the mirror, but we can't see them anywhere in the room.

The style looks a lot like Mr. Crow.

[carmine field]

Mr. Crow's design in TPW is the same one as Paradox and TWD

I have screenshots

one moment

[terse niche]

Even though the design style is different, the shoes are very similar. It's always the same shoe with laces, etc.

To say it's the same is a long shot, but the base design is the same.

In The White Door

Looks the same just less detailed

[carmine field]

oh yep

[terse niche]

As I said, it's reeeeeally a long shot, but it reminds me a lot of how Mr. Crow often shows up as I remember.

[floral mauve]

it also seems like RL style slowly shifting towards twd type, possibly second maze also got involved in UB

not that detailed but more clean simple style

[terse niche]

Yes. Just by the strokes and lines you can't dismiss it because the style of drawing has changed over the years.

[floral mauve]

I guess they didnt have much choice especially when later stage Bob Laura and also Crow are introduced

some ppl dont like the current Crow because it lacks some linear details on its head compare to earlier games like hotel or case 23

[terse niche]

I think Mr. Crow changes more details of how visible he is. Most of the time he is seen from afar, quickly, in silhouettes, mirrors, etc. In his crow form he is always half hidden. The only game we can see him clearly up close is Paradox and he is highly detailed there

[floral mauve]

ye but paradox aint reallly recent anymore I guess...

2018

[carmine field]

What does it mean by 'useless'?

[terse niche]

I believe it is the mind of the time of the trauma of the death of Dale's parents.

Then he acquires a new evolved mind.

This new mind his parents are alive (or he remembers they are alive) and his mind is not "spoiled" with anxiety and trauma

[carmine field]

yeah I think it makes sense

he needed to change his mind in order to become something else

[terse niche]

Paradox seems to be the first phase of teaching Dale his way to evolve his mind so a lot is taught and demonstrated to him during Paradox.

[carmine field]

yeah

[terse niche]

It's not really happening, but what they want to happen.

[carmine field]

then he would finally overcome his trauma in CE Birthday

[terse niche]

Yes. We don't know if he actually undoes his parents' deaths, but at the very least he thinks his parents survived.

Whereas that must have been the main thing that traumatized him his whole life. He even became a homicide detective.

If he thinks his parents survived, he has no more trauma to spoil his mind

Or, I can imagine killing Dale's parents could be part of the plan and undoing a traumatic moment/memory could be important for evolving the mind. After all, this happens to both Dale and Laura.

Laura also appears to have been purposely driven to suicide by the "magical" room that Seasons is set in.

The location that Seasons takes place is definitely not a normal location as we see it literally disappear in chapter 1 of case 23

Then Laura also uses the blue cube to undo her death or not remember her death.

[visual coral]

The door disappearing is likely due to Owl's magic. Just like he teleported Laura and slipped evidence about Rusty Lake in there

[frosty wolf]

how is Mr. Owl involved with Seasons and Case 23 Chapter 1 (other than Laura disappearing into the roof)? I think the Seasons room is very odd as it has no exits and that the entire room may have just been Laura's madness. The door disappearing could have just been the game telling us it wasn't real. Anyhow, about the teleporting Laura.. i doubt it was Mr. Owl who sent Laura into the Seasons room. Seasons supposedly takes place after the ending events of The Mill (possibly even The Cave). Laura's corrupted soul escapes and returns to her past to change it. I think the reason why Laura knows about Rusty Lake is either just because she needs help with her mental health or Bob's advice.

[azure bay]

In The Present Mind crow reuses the shoes of Dale's father

And Harvey reuses the shoes of 3rd person Dale

[visual coral]

Owl letter to Crow in the Mill said that he was the one that teleported Laura and found Dale. Mill and Case 23 happen simultaneously and we see how Crow watches Dale on the TV, when there's no TV in Case 23 part 1. Considering the fact, that Owl needs Dale specifically, and the envelope with the evidence about RL that has no reason to be there tell us that Owl orchestrated most of Case 23 so he can bring Dale to the Lake.
Seasons are very much real. Laura soul travels through memories, that means she had to live through all of that first and then go back in the cubes. Laura has phychological issuses, sure, and they could explain the "madness" that goes on in these rooms. But the rooms are real.
Since Harvey is alive and free in the Mill, Laura's soul must've already changed the past to some extend in Case 23 timeline.
Let's not forget that Laura's mother grew up in Rusty Lake, works for TWD\BKM and Laura herself was in Hotel, so she has plenty of connections to the Lake without her mental illness.

[azure bay]

it just RL design since Paradox. Second Maze only happened to come out at that time period.

If it was involved this time, we'd already know

[azure bay]

If it's Laura's madness than why does Dale see the room at all?

[frosty wolf]

1. yes i know all these connections i just thought that you meant Mr. Owl teleported Laura to the Seasons room. Also, I specifically said what Mr. Owl has to do with Case 23 Chapter 1 not the entire game.
2. What if the rooms are just fragments of her memory joined together?
3. I again thought you meant that Mr. Owl was the only source of information about Rusty Lake to Laura

[azure bay]

I've just realized. We've got a different perspective on Laura's Seasons room

Harvey's Box starts there

[frosty wolf]

what are you trying to get to by connecting Harvey's Box?

[azure bay]

that Laura's room in Seasons is a real place

seen not only by Laura

and not only by Dale

but by Harvey as well

[frosty wolf]

where do we see Harvey seeing the room?

like in his cage? or something else

[vivid bridge]

I think if you look up at the beginning

[azure bay]

the wallpaper seen from handling holes

[vivid bridge]

oh yeah

[visual coral]

Harvey's box still has no reason to be in case 23 part 4

[frosty wolf]

what if Laura forgot to bring Harvey (or just his box)??

[vivid bridge]

Also I don't think Harvey actually dies in the REAL events of Seasons. CS Laura kills Harvey in the memory of Fall, which is when real Laura was already dead. So real Harvey is okay

[frosty wolf]

yeah absolutely

[azure bay]

it does. It's just not a lore reason

[visual coral]

what reason then?

[azure bay]

a reference, a connection

[vivid bridge]

yeah pretty much

[visual coral]

sure

[vivid bridge]

you could argue that she just left the box behind

[azure bay]

just overthinking but the box probably was damaged by Harvey and she had to find a new way of transporting him back home

[frosty wolf]

or Harvey ditched Laura and flew away;)

[vivid bridge]

I mean

that might actually make sense

since the next time we see him is at the Mill

Of course he's in the Fall memory but you could argue thats just memories being faulty

I'm not saying thats the case, i'm just presenting the option

[azure bay]

I don't even consider that anymore after TPW

and also

Harvey's job is protecting Laura

[vivid bridge]

well he did a lousy job

[visual coral]

i guess Harvey doesn't need to be in a cage to follow her

[vivid bridge]

I think there's a good chance that UB will give us answers to this, considering we're playing as Harvey

[azure bay]

I expect not. Because Harvey ditching Laura is a new idea with nothing to grasp on. At face value, Harvey followed Laura there and back again and that what people have been thinking for 8 years now

[frosty wolf]

oh yeah you can talk with me about that i just brought it up as some joke and Ellesian tried to expand on it /nm

[azure bay]

I know. That's why I was going to leave it alone

[stone bramble]

what did we expect from a bird who gave laura chewed subway gum

[vivid bridge]

I mean, she didn't mind

[azure bay]

in Harvey's Box it did surprisingly well

[carmine field]

Why on earth did William have a statue of himself?

I think it's possible that William had some fortune, which would explain why we don't see the family members going to work or anything else, not that it matters so much

[floral mauve]

I think it’s more than some

It’s a family with its own mark (forgot the words)

[real lantern]

Seal?

Coat of arms?

[floral mauve]

Yep

Coat of arms

[real lantern]

Id say arms are pretty expensive

[floral mauve]

Typing on my phone while lying down is hard

[floral mauve]

It can be said that Vanderboom is a prestige family with its history

Usually means lands and wealth

[carmine field]

true

It is also curious that they have paintings of themselves

The alchemist brothers were definitely rich

I don't know if their connection with Mr. Owl or Lake has something to do with it

[terse niche]

We can also tell that Aldous already had a connection with Mr. Owl so he might have helped. Mr. Owl must be incredibly rich. Ma guy has a hotel, I don't know how many treatment centers. Even the subway seems to be his

Mr. Owl has Mental Health and Fishing, The White Door, Best Kept Memory, etc. Man like a "psychological" institute

While we see that Best Kept Memory seemed to receive some questions about the ethics of its services (this appears in the newspaper), we also have the help the escape of patients at The White Door who seemed like prisoners. We don't see the consequences of that.

Oh a Theatre

[frosty wolf]

i dont remember a subway in any of the games..

[terse niche]

I think that living more than 250 years must be the only way to be a poor inhabitant of an island of a cult that owns all the services in the surroundings.

Underground Blossom

[frosty wolf]

there has been talk that the subway isnt actually real

[covert wyvern]

Subway surfers x rl crossover cancelled

[terse niche]

I think subway is real and at the same time it's not.

[frosty wolf]

how does that work?

[terse niche]

I think those moments really happened. The encounters of a Harvey asura in a subway at different times in Laura's life. But this thing about you going from one station to another, with stations named after Laura's life stages is the "magic" part

[frosty wolf]

well obviously the moments were real..it was Laura's childhood

[terse niche]

As if the subway line connected these different moments that one day happened

That! That's what I mean.

What I don't believe is that absolutely everything is metaphorical.

[frosty wolf]

yes

[terse niche]

And that there is a truth to what we witness in the stations* and not just representations or illusions

[frosty wolf]

as i said, im pretty sure that was Laura's literal childhood

im just questioning the subway itself

[terse niche]

The truth is that Mr. Owl just wants revenge because he went bald.

A happy Jakob with beautiful hair

[frosty wolf]

wonder why or how he went bald

[terse niche]

Sad bald guy

[frosty wolf]

sadge

[terse niche]

Maybe it's the curse of immortality? Dale is chosen because he doesn't go bald transformed.

Harvey never appears human because he is ashamed of being bald. Now all makes sense.

Mr. Crow embraces is baldness

[frosty wolf]

what if Harvey was never a human and was originally a bird and somehow communicated supernaturally to somehow be able to achieve power to transform into supposed asura form

[terse niche]

I also believe that Harvey was never human and cannot transform into one. Perhaps UB will give us that answer.

[frosty wolf]

perhaps

[carmine field]

Jokes aside, I think Mr. Owl has a new body because his old body was burned at the end of Paradise

[terse niche]

So you're telling me that them all being bald is a coincidence?! Even worse!! That my theory of Mr. Is Owl hating his baldness wrong?

[carmine field]