🤔｜theories

[bright parrot]

Or asked peacefully

Why the massacre

Yeah if owl didn't knew dale, how did he sent the letter

[azure bay]

because it's a cube

[bright parrot]

Letter is a cube?

Or birthday is a cube

[azure bay]

Owl altered Bday to feature tools and instructions to save Dale's parents

[bright parrot]

Maybe just maybe the gun was also improvised by owl

Because massacre for a gun

[carmine field]

Owl even altered the Theatre

[azure bay]

no, the gun was the reason Rabbit came. It's THE gun from the hotel

[bright parrot]

Which is not that important or highlighted

[bright parrot]

Pheasant one?

[azure bay]

yes

and Rabbit wouldn't take it if he wasn't after it

[bright parrot]

So that's the alternative timeline

[azure bay]

technically yes

[bright parrot]

Where he's successfull and Dale's parents are dead

[azure bay]

I'd say, that's the original one. The cube was its copy until altered

[carmine field]

Indeed, it is the only object that disappears after Mr. rabbit come

[bright parrot]

If we can expect Owl to change ending of bday, multiple events of bday,

Why can't we believe that crow was also added in cube and wasn't there

[azure bay]

We've been through this. Because Dale's parents would notice an imposter

[bright parrot]

And is cube just a memory or reality

Reality is confusing in RL
So is the cube in mainstream timeline

[carmine field]

And the letter from Mr. Rabbit was placed next to the box the gun was kept

[azure bay]

I think there's no master reality. Only cubes in the lake or other cubes

everything is real

everything is cubes

[bright parrot]

I believe cubes are episodes fragments

[azure bay]

Play TPW at last

[bright parrot]

Which can be altered and can be different in different timelines

[azure bay]

or sooner than later I'll spoil the midway twist

[bright parrot]

And I'm scared

[azure bay]

You'd better be. Because that was mindblowing for me

[carmine field]

I remembered something

The coin that unlocks the box only appears after Mr. Rabbit invades the house

Right?

I'll play again and check it out

[azure bay]

Technically it does

But I have no idea where it comes from

I guess from grandpa

[carmine field]

before checking the door

after

I think it's clear that it was Mr. Rabbit who put the coin

[azure bay]

And I think he took it from the cold hands of grandpa

[carmine field]

It's possible

[azure bay]

Like grandpa is the one who tells us open it

He was the owner

[carmine field]

Also, the letter is right there

[carmine field]

The writing on the left means "Deva", right?

Any theories to explain this?

[azure bay]

it's preta actually

in 2 languages

I think it's another clue for Rabbit's state at the time

[carmine field]

True

[carmine field]

Any idea how Dale's family got the gun?

There is a gap of 46 years

It could be that a member of the Vandermeer had visited the Lake or the gun could have been lost and passed through the hands of different people

I wonder if the writing on the box was literal or just a hint to the player about Mr. Rabbit

[woven harness]

Any theories on why is she in the box like that

[pure spindle]

Comfy

[carmine field]

I assume they all were hiding from David

not sure tho

What plague is this?

[carmine field]

nvm it's the fourth plague

even gerard and margaret were hiding

[brave coral]

What if 9yo dale was a victim of a terrorist attack on his bday and snapped? And nothing is rlly happening on the lake, its just a product of a "broken mind". He never brought his family back. He juat made tht up when he went insane?

And all ce's are abt him fighting with his broken mind and traumas

[carmine field]

That would be invalidating the entire back story of Rusty Lake, including the games Dale doesn't appear in

Like most premium games and some CE's

And there is no indication that Dale's childhood trauma affected him to this extent

The stories aren't only about Dale

[brave coral]

But theres no proof those arent happening in hos head

[carmine field]

Explain your line of reasoning

Did you play all the games?

What evidence supports the theory?

[azure bay]

There is. We have so many perspectives from so many time periods before and after Dale so it's impossible that they are all created by a single mind.

And those perspectives are consistent to the one of Dale's

[brave coral]

I did

[brave coral]

i did and thats why im confused what the fuck van gogh has to do with the lake

[floral mauve]

we dont know but there are guesses

the obvious one is that devs are dutch so it is reasonable

though there are some connections in RL, such as he knows hotel and ehm, idk, he has mental health issues I suppose

[brave coral]

oh right

so bassically its hes fault he died, he didnt apply! >:((

[floral mauve]

I would love to see Van Gogh as Dale's past life

still have hope

since the devs rejected the possibility of Albert (good job)

[floral mauve]

it would also explain why Arles room appeared in paradox but never used

[brave coral]

True

[pure spindle]

P sure it's just vibes. Mental health and stuff. Who knows?

[carmine field]

I personally believe it's because Van Gogh's paintings appear so often in Dale's life

Also, the painting in Paradox was used in a puzzle

It is from this painting that you get the ear to place in one of the containers

But I don't think that's all that special, considering you get an unknown eye and Mr. Owl's heart for this puzzle too

[floral mauve]

That’s not what I meant

It wasn’t used I meant u don’t need to use that room to get through the puzzle

The only room that serves no purpose

[carmine field]

oh I see

that puzzle from chapter 1

I didn't realize, sorry

[carmine field]

Thinking about it, I suppose they just couldn't fit Arles into the puzzle.
Anyway, I don't think we should take this puzzle into account, considering that it depicts places that Dale hasn't visited (like The Mill and The Cave)

It feels more like a revisit to Cube Escape games than anything else

[azure bay]

the argument wasn't about the locations Dale visited. It was about the CE games related to him and Laura

[floral mauve]

true, but this statement will reinforce the idea that Dale's grandpa does exist

as Mr Crow

[azure bay]

grandpa could be not featured for any other reason

[floral mauve]

exactly but many ppl say grandpa doesnt exist because he didnt appear in those paradox puzzles blablabla

[plain token]

In ce birthday.Did mr rabbit already have the coin or did he steal it to steal the gun too?

[floral mauve]

seems like he did have the coin

[azure bay]

or he took it from grandpa's cold hands

[floral mauve]

thats arguable, since there is no way of knowing

unless he searched the entire house while Dale watching him

[azure bay]

or hiding in fear

[floral mauve]

though it would be more convenient to take the entire box with him?

[azure bay]

it would be much more convenient to threaten Vandermeers into giving it away

[plain token]

So if we think about,if he didn’t have it he would either steal the whole thing or threaten them to give it to him

[floral mauve]

cap

just machine gun brr take the box speedrun

though the box could be hidden within drawers

who just leaves the gun box randomly on the table

or display

[plain token]

if we use common sense,then he did have a penny with him and stole the gun

[tawny pulsar]

dales actions in birthday are questionable

[plain token]

wdym?

[tawny pulsar]

youknow with him building the time machine and altering the memory

[azure bay]

what if it's not just a penny? or how would he know he needed one?

[azure bay]

we're speaking of Rabbit

[plain token]

because mr rabbit took the gun like gentleman

[plain token]

well in hotel you need a key

[azure bay]

and?

[plain token]

Was that coin special

?

[azure bay]

maybe

maybe no

but it's still unusual to use it as a key

[plain token]

it looks the same as the one in ce lake

[tawny pulsar]

not coin symbolism again

[plain token]

coin symbolism???

[azure bay]

I'm sure I'm overthinking here, but coins widespread at Rusty Lake would be rare in Dale's city

for a simple reason of country borders

[plain token]

that could prove that it was just some ordinary coin

[azure bay]

these are independent assumptions

it may or may not be ordinary

it may or may not be spread in Dale's city

[plain token]

could david have found that coin?

[azure bay]

what I'm saying, the coin is a key. Quite an unordinary one. And the one who'd definitely have it is the pistol owner, grandpa

[plain token]

so grandpa must have had the coin

[azure bay]

at least grandpa

if the coin is ordinary and widespread Rabbit may happen to have one too

if not, grandpa is the way to go

[tawny pulsar]

also relating to mr rabbit. why wasnt he unable to be reborn normally?

[floral mauve]

idk what u meant by that

[plain token]

I think it’s the same as laura:she had alredy been corrupted as william and i think there is a limit on how many time you can be reborn

[gray sand]

hot take david just had 15 year old boy disorder

[azure bay]

he died twice since then

he's not the same person anymore

[gray sand]

i know i was joking

every time he died the corruption/enlightenment (maybe) brought him back but it changed his form

which would explain the difference between the mr rabbit in hotel (his original form that took quite a beating) and the new one that couldn’t form itself back all the way like it was before

the original body was too messed up

[azure bay]

I think he was rather half-way through getting something decent

[gray sand]

wdym

[azure bay]

there are clues that Rabbit is still a CS in bday

but he looks next to nothing like it

[gray sand]

oh he’s still corrupted

but the form he took was different than his original (even the silhouette is different now) because of how violently he died

because he’s enlightened and a hybrid or whatever you wanna call it

[azure bay]

I don't think the way he died has anything to do with how he looks

[gray sand]

more so the point that he died

the death as a thing that happened

that’s why his appearance changed

[azure bay]

normally corrupted souls don't exactly look like thier past-selves

[gray sand]

yes but the change he undergoes is drastic

[azure bay]

I see nothing unusual here. Like William doesn't resemble Laura, Rabbit doesn't resembles his past form

[gray sand]

william and laura were different they were reborn

[azure bay]

neither William's soul resembled William

like at all

[gray sand]

yes because he died

i’m not saying it’s not abnormal for this to happen lol i’m more so giving a reason for it

once one body is destroyed or killed another must be formed

[carmine field]

Any clues to why Mr. Rabbit's soul is so different?

[azure bay]

visually you mean?

[carmine field]

yep

[azure bay]

my guess is, there's no lore reason

only inspiration by 1 specific artist

[carmine field]

Could have been a teaser for Birthday too

[azure bay]

or it's one heck of a coinsidence

[floral mauve]

though there is no direct confirmation from the devs

or direct link between the artist

[carmine field]

I think I agree. He behaves like other corrupted souls, although it may be strange that he appears in the window

[floral mauve]

though the magic 2 rabbits part is still unexplained

[azure bay]

CS appearing in windows stopped surprising me pretty early on

[floral mauve]

even nowhere doesnt have a coherent theory of that

[azure bay]

but I do

[floral mauve]

no you dont 😡

except time travelling rabbit brrr

[carmine field]

It's not the first time we've seen a corrupted soul separating from its body, I think

[floral mauve]

he appeared when Rabbit was still alive I believe

though I have heard ppl say its a bug

[azure bay]

So is the soul we see on the photo of Laura's house

[floral mauve]

not sure if its fixed cuz I havent played Hotel Rabbit room for quite a long time

[carmine field]

it's not fixed

[azure bay]

it's not a bug to be fixed

[carmine field]

Because it's not a bug

[azure bay]

it's an achievement

[floral mauve]

its not me saying it

[floral mauve]

i dont get this

[azure bay]

we have a photo in case 23

it features both Laura and a CS

[floral mauve]

I dont remember

which part

[azure bay]

in the office

[floral mauve]

ehm

[azure bay]

the house photo

[floral mauve]

ehm

[azure bay]

it's also used on the openning screen

[floral mauve]

alright no wonder why I didnt see

I am blind

as Elizabeth

[carmine field]

I even believe that Laura's death was because her own corrupted soul killed her

[floral mauve]

I checked though, it isnt in the house photo in the office

or it isnt clear

[floral mauve]

just bruh

then this kinda ruined the samsara theory

a soul appeared in two forms at the same time

[vivid bridge]

I don't think this is actually canon. They have a habit of reusing assets like that (like how Mr. Crow's picture in Theatre has the clock on it from Ms. Pheasants room)

They wanted to put them in the chapter 1 screen cause its spooky and then reused the sprite for the pinboard

[floral mauve]

that photo just ruined my day

[azure bay]

actually, it was herself in The Cave memory

a CS was involved but we don't really know how

[floral mauve]

also who the hell is in the mill picture

[vivid bridge]

The corrupted soul is a metaphor for her depression

[azure bay]

it is but isn't limited to. Dale, for example, isn't her depression in Paradox

[floral mauve]

she did kill herself, but we dont know if she is in control or she was feeling the Van Gogh vibe, but either way, she did it using her own hand

[azure bay]

and in The Mill she was literally corrupted

[vivid bridge]

which picture

[floral mauve]

Idk if I mistakenly see that as a person or no

[vivid bridge]

is that a person?

I doubt it

[floral mauve]

but even u can spot 2 weird shady thing here

[floral mauve]

idk

[azure bay]

If I didn't know they were there I probably wouldn't

[floral mauve]

anyway, I am against the idea of Laura has 2 souls

I mean not Laura

that blond figure

that creature

that 'thing'

wtf is this HD

[floral mauve]

unless, I hate to say this, one of her is past one is future

[carmine field]

I don't imagine it would be that, but something similar to what we see in Hotel, Paradox or The White Door, in which a person is faced with his own corrupted soul, unless nothing is literal

But the fact that this generates an inconsistency with the theory of Samsara is a problem

[floral mauve]

yea, time travel rabbit is what nowhere said

[azure bay]

well, we see a CS in Seasons

[floral mauve]

twd Bob is more metaphorical tbh

[azure bay]

and TPW proved that memories are at least somewhat real

[floral mauve]

I didnt say time travel part is bs

[azure bay]

I mean the one behind the window

[floral mauve]

what are we talking about

u mean seasons

or hotel

[azure bay]

for now, Seasons

there's a CS outside almost every season

[floral mauve]

ye

[azure bay]

and it's likely Laura

[floral mauve]

now we are left with ehm, Albert or dilusional Laura CS or timetravel Laura CS

pick one

[azure bay]

or timetravel Dale CS

[floral mauve]

Help

[azure bay]

Owl implied it had an important role to play in the game of chess

[carmine field]

I remembered Bob's case
Sometimes he gets corrupted
Does this not already create an opening in the theory of Samsara?

[azure bay]

that depends on your theory of samsara

[floral mauve]

he did turn into a CS and turned back with no death occured in between which seem to be easy

same for Dale I think

[azure bay]

Dale's case is too weird to be categorized

[floral mauve]

he was flickering

[azure bay]

we don't know what it was

[visual coral]

So what does "substance of the past life" means exactly? If Rabbit came for the gun, does that mean by the "substance" his means it? How this gun even connects to one of his past lives, if it belonged to Ms Pheasant?

[azure bay]

I reckon such substance are items from and the events they are involved in from the past life

or maybe just items

and they have some supernatural connection to the person

nobody knows how exactly Rabbit is connected to the pistol

but the leap I see comes from the fact that he worked with Pheasant in RL Theatre at the time

[visual coral]

That's what I thought, but if that substance can help him escape this state and his willing to kill for it, the gun, that didn't even belonged to him doesn't make any sense

[azure bay]

my wild guess would be Rabbit being the original owner or at least the original giver of the pistol

[visual coral]

I so confused, I hate being confused :с

[gray sand]

my theory is that since david and elizabeth (rabbit and pheasant) were siblings, that’s how they’re connected

[visual coral]

And we know that he came for the gun specifically and that it is the exact same gun from the Hotel how exactly?

[gray sand]

he feels an attachment to it because it belonged to his sister

[azure bay]

It's highly debatable if the guests have a slightest clue of their past lives and relashionships

[gray sand]

evidently rabbit does in birthday

who’s to say he doesn’t know about his past life as david

[azure bay]

In Bday he's not the same Rabbit he was in Hotel

he died

and was aimlessly wandering the lake

as a corrupted soul

that could be the moment he remembered everything

[visual coral]

yet he knew about the gun being the substance of one of his past lives

[gray sand]

so who’s to say he didn’t know?

[azure bay]

that wouldn't surprise me since it was his immediate past life

David was the live before

[azure bay]

so who's to say he did know?

[visual coral]

so there's an expiration date on their memories?

[azure bay]

not quite

technically Laura has William's memories about the elixir

but on practice there's no evidence of her remembering her past life as Willian

[visual coral]

inconsistencies like this just make everything so confusing. Laura doesn't seem to remember anything from her past life( unless her mental illness is Williams memories coming through), but her memories have the elixir emblem and the Rabbit seems to know this gun connected to his past live

actually

[azure bay]

these cases are different

[visual coral]

if he said "one of" doesn't that mean he remembers multiple?

It could be that humans do not remember their past lives, but cs do

[azure bay]

Rabbit in Bday is a CS. CS do remember their immediate past lives

Laura is a human and humans don't recall their past lives

[plain token]

In family tune,did Mary die of shock or what?

[azure bay]

I think so

[pure spindle]

I think heart attack / shock / old age

[carmine field]

What is the relationship between Harvey's eggs and black cubes?

[pure spindle]

Harvey is an Avatar of the Lake /hj

[visual coral]

So basically, CS are in the lake, and time doesn't exist in the lake, that's why Mr Rabbit and his CS can be in the same place at the same time

Time travel Rabbit go brrr

[azure bay]

Rather indirect

[carmine field]

The egg is also an ingredient for the elixir, right?

[azure bay]

1. The secret level of Roots is a big reference to Alchemy game

2. It's a crow egg

[carmine field]

oh

[azure bay]

3. Brothers' initials are written above Caroline's formula in the book in Paradox movie

[carmine field]

1- I think it can be considered canon, even though it's just reference
We see both glass and egg in the family crest, even in other levels that take place in the laboratory

3- Even though they studied Caroline's notes, her elixir wasn't physical, it was based on memories. I imagine that, because the brothers were alchemists, they tried to find an alternative through alchemy. After all, the elixir takes different forms, and perhaps it can be created in different ways too?

The secret level of Samsara Room also associates the four alchemical elements with the elixir that William drank.

[azure bay]

1. it makes no sense and it feels damn cheap. Why to put all this effort into finding elixir if you can go to you kitchen and combine an empty milk bottle with an egg?

2. Even though Caroline's elixir ended up conceptual, most of its elements are pretty much mundane. It has to work in the material world.

The secret level of SR may mean anything including nothing

also

James' elixir created following William's notes looks nothing like combining glass and an egg

[carmine field]

1- The egg can be special in some way. In Seasons, an egg was associated with a cube. In Harvey's Box, Mr. Crow (possibly a hallucination) hatched from the egg. In Paradox Chapter 2, Laura says that it all started with Harvey's egg.

[azure bay]

It's Laura's madness that started with eating Harvey's egg. That's it. The black cube was a metaphor and Harvey's Box is the weirdest one

[carmine field]

About the James part

[azure bay]

this doesn't add up

William either combined an egg and with some glass

or William created multiple intermediate liquids in 5 bottles James could follow

and the latter makes much more sense

[carmine field]

3- That would be a retcon. Except for the book in Paradox, there is no other evidence that William and Aldous could have reproduced Caroline's formula for the elixir. Still, the devs associated alchemy with the elixir in SR ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[azure bay]

I don't think it was retconned in any way. Starting with 4 primary elements makes even less sense. The same question but paraphrased: why to bother with earth, water, fire when you can just combine some chalk with some small eggs and get your supposedly special black egg?

speaking about evidence, the book is clearly in Paradox

it was left there by someone

supposedly by Owl

and the brothers knew him personally

[carmine field]

Yes, I don't disagree on that. I think the brothers did study Caroline's formula

But I don't believe they actually replicated Caroline's formula, rather they used alchemy. That's my point

[azure bay]

Caroline's formula implies alchemy too

her trick with memories was rather an exception

a backdoor

"corrupted soul extracting elements from memories in a purgatory" is impossible to test

unless it's a special case of something more general and researchable

[carmine field]

As I said up there, it may not have been just any egg. But that's a pretty interpretive part
In Seasons, we have the association between the egg and the cube. There's no way to be sure if it's just the puzzle or if it's about lore in some way

[azure bay]

memories coming from eggs makes no sense

memories come from brains

bodies that used to have brains at most

[carmine field]

I wouldn't say it that way, but that the cubes can be attached to the egg, not a creation relationship. Maybe there's something to do with Harvey or something else. All I can do is assume things, because it's very interpretative

Also, the egg found in the secret level of Roots was specifically named as a crow's egg?

[azure bay]

we saw that once. Once. Long ago. Never since cubes were inserted into such objects. And back to Seasons, what are we using the cubes for? To finish the level, "escape memory". It's either some pure gameplay or it's a memory of Summer 1971 that Laura enters.

What would such memory do in the egg?

[alpine hollow]

hey guys, i finnaly finished all games. today i finished the white door and the secret ending. but im confused...
Bob killed himself, but then bob appears in case 23, the white door, and for some reason during the game, he changes place with a corrupted soul several times. I just dont understand whats happening

[azure bay]

1st and foremost, somehow Bob survived the shot

Maybe he was lucky

maybe the shot was made in an environment controlled by Owl

changing place with a CS was Bob's vision both times. For the player it was rather symbolic

[alpine hollow]

makes scence, the gun was given by mr. crow, so they could send bob to the white door i guess?

[azure bay]

I think yes but before I think they made him make a detour through the police station

he brought the black cube which was Owl's test for Dale

[alpine hollow]

in the police station ( case 23 and the achivment on twd) bob transforms into a CS and kills the guard

thats another think that confuses me

[azure bay]

why he's corrupted?

that's what confuses you?

[alpine hollow]

its because he lost his memorys

i guess

[azure bay]

there are many ways to become corrupted

[alpine hollow]

this moment

[azure bay]

and this one was definitely not the case

[alpine hollow]

would u tell me all u know?

[azure bay]

yes, but I'll finish with this one

[alpine hollow]

sure

[azure bay]

Bob gave out his cube after he was corrupted

that means he had some memories

[azure bay]

Caroline was burnt, William consumed the elixir, van Gogh was depressed/crazy (just like Bob 2 times in TWD), the guests were murdered and cannibalized, Albert got coins on his eyes

[alpine hollow]

alchimy things

[azure bay]

?

[alpine hollow]

like, its all about alchimy, aldous, jacob, william

[azure bay]

Bob is the furthest from alchemy

[alpine hollow]

and a lot of things that happen in the story includes alchimy

[azure bay]

his corruption is rather psychological

[alpine hollow]

i know

[alpine hollow]

i was talking about this

[azure bay]

also corruption is more related to samsara than anything

[alpine hollow]

oh the samsara

i forgot that

i need to study that again

[azure bay]

William died after consuming the elixir but was it the direct reason?

[alpine hollow]

well yes, the chances to survive after drinking the potion are 50%

[azure bay]

just in case, Samsara Room isn't the best game to study. Rather take a closer look at Theatre

[alpine hollow]

why? since the samsara room shows the standart of reincarnation

[azure bay]

not really

it's William's pov on his rebirth

CS->Laura

[alpine hollow]

you resurrect in a random form

[azure bay]

it explains nothing

and only confuses

it's a remake of an old uncanon game

[alpine hollow]

idk where i read, but its a theory that explains

thats why william rebirth in animals corpses

and finnaly, in a human corpse

laura

[azure bay]

he doesn't do that for real

he doesn't have time for that

the ritual in Roots took a season at most

if we trust the devs

and if they have mistaken, it took only 9 months

after Laura's conception by the tree

[alpine hollow]

the normal human birth

i see

[azure bay]

so the best game to explain samsara is Theatre

[alpine hollow]

why theatre

[azure bay]

it's its purpose

[alpine hollow]

because of the elements? (i dont remember the name)

btw im coming back later with a final question ( its a simple one)

[azure bay]

"6 plays about the past, the present and the future [...] 6 stages of the wheel [...] what you may become"

[plain token]

Did Gerald swallow the key (in th 2nd plague paradise)just to make Jacob get him food?

[azure bay]

does it matter?

[plain token]

I want to know what others think.But no it does not matter

[azure bay]

I think he's just a jerk

I don't think getting food would normally mean giving the key back

[plain token]

wdym?

[azure bay]

I mean he'd just eat what was given

and that's it

only the frog soup being bad let Jakob get the key back

[plain token]

oh well

i’m still wondering didn’t he want the frog to be gone tho?

[visual coral]

he was probably hoping he would shit the key out so Jacob would have to take it from his feces

[plain token]

https://tenor.com/view/mojojojo-mojo-jojo-powerpuffgirls-evil-gif-10021241

[azure bay]

no idea. He seems uncooperative for the most part

[plain token]

he’s the only one who we see eat ,thrice in fact

[azure bay]

does it mean nobody else eats on Paradise?

[plain token]

that’s not what i meant but eats so much he’s the only one be shown eating

[azure bay]

ah, yeah, that's pretty much explicit

[visual coral]

that's just part of his character

[azure bay]

probably the only one 😂

[visual coral]

no, there's two. eating and shitting)

[plain token]

it still looks funny to me that nicolas seems to be wearing a napkin on his neck at all times but gerald is the fat one

[visual coral]

that's an ascot tie

a napkin for rich people

[alpine hollow]

@azure bay I'm back

so

who is Sarah (from The what door) the main question is: what did she really do

she erased Laura's memories from Bob but why if that's not allowed

my theory is Sarah helped all the people we see in the basement

[floral mauve]

this is basically the plot of arg

wait

Laura?

what does she have to do with anything

[pure spindle]

To my understanding, nothing. I interpreted the White Door as White Door is another mental health place under the control of Mr. Owl like Rusty Lake Hotel and the people there were using Bob for his memories, esp his memories of Laura, as she is important. Sarah is a person who worked there who grew fond of Bob and saw that he was hurting and so she removed the memories of Laura so they'd let Bob go as he was now useless to them.

[floral mauve]

now this is the standard interpretation

[sudden dust]

am I the only one who thinks their clothes look rather similar?
I don’t believe albert is the rabbit, but still interesting

[pure spindle]

Mr. Rabbit stole Albert's clothes,

[carmine field]

Devs often reuse clothing assets, but this case seems to be just a coincidence

[carmine field]

I think she just wanted to help Bob anyway

and maybe the basement people too if you consider the ARG

[bright parrot]

His coat looks more like dale then albert

[bright parrot]

1.) Bob was traumatized by Laura's memories
2.) TWD needed bob for its memories of Laura.

Sarah solved both of these problems by removing laura from his memories

[carmine field]

Basically 👆

[alpine hollow]

Sarah I mean,sorry

[alpine hollow]

more similar to Dale, but it's not him

[alpine hollow]

but bobs life was filled with color even remembering Laura, meaning that he was happy. In the secret ending, even don't remembering Laura, his life wasn't filled with color

[alpine hollow]

Bob was traumatized because of the break up, and her death, not her memories
What tells you that Sarah "solved" the problem?

[bright parrot]

People at TWD were not helping him.
They were using bob for his memories of Laura.

Owl needs Williams/Laura's memories IDK why

[bright parrot]

Also in 1st point by Laura's memories I mean his memories with Laura.

Sarah helped him out of TWD

[alpine hollow]

ok, but he was happy in the end right? also yeah Lauras memories are essential

[alpine hollow]

ah ok

[bright parrot]

Can't say but he must be confused for sure.

His memories were like puzzle with missing pieces

[visual coral]

Bob's happiness at the end is questionable. He's ex girlfriend still died, he just learned to live with it. And I think in the Sarah's ending he still brought color to his life just without Laura. So I'd say not remembering her is healthier for him

[azure bay]

one doesn't exclude the other. We know so little. Maybe he was already useless after Owl using him in Case 23 and Theatre and Owl just wanted to restore him to status quo

before letting him out

[alpine hollow]

i don't think like that, for example, i wouldn't be happy about forgetting my dead mom (she is not )

[azure bay]

What she means, Sarah gave Bob a comfort of ignorance

He was traumatized and removing hurting memories is one of the solusions

[alpine hollow]

now we are getting into philosophy things

[azure bay]

ok, here are facts

Bob's corrupted

removing Laura, the cause, removed corruption

also we've got a more recent example of the same phenomenon

[alpine hollow]

that's a good point

[azure bay]

Best Kept Memories provides experimental services of removing memories

one of the clients was a stuntman who was afraid of height after falling from a tree as a child and thus being unable to accept a valuable job offer

removing the memory removed his phobia

[alpine hollow]

i wasn't so informed about best kept memory, i saw the site but I didn't found anything

[azure bay]

there's a google doc pinned in #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg
the site is down for now but the doc has everything or almost everything

[alpine hollow]

oh nice

thanks

[azure bay]

@visual coral "Jacob arrived at the island on April 22d 1796"

that means the letter found him and he returned the same day it was written

it's just very unlikely

[visual coral]

oh, my bad

well, he arrived a couple days later than April 22d, that doesn't really change anything in the big picture

[azure bay]

the thing is, we have no idea

it could be months

it could be a whole year

post isn't instant even nowadays, y'know

[visual coral]

Caroline's coffin is right there tho

it's a week at best

[devout seal]

Yes, the seasons change, but don't know the exact date, so it might have taken years.

[azure bay]

what does it change?

[floral mauve]

love ur art

[devout seal]

thx

No one knows the exact date, and we have no choice but to wait for the official to tell us.

[floral mauve]

I would guess within 2 years time

[visual coral]

It couldn't have possibly been a year, that coffin would've floated away lol

[floral mauve]

though does seasons change count as plague effect?

[azure bay]

it probably would in a week too

[floral mauve]

could those happen all within a week or a month

[azure bay]

I was sure it wouldn't be, now I hesitate

[floral mauve]

I wont want to stay with the cult family for longer than 1 day once I saw the outside world already

Resident Evil VII vibe if u get what I mean

[azure bay]

Caroline would stop him from leaving

[visual coral]

That's why it happened in a day or two since Caroline died

[azure bay]

it's just unlikely

[floral mauve]

this I doubt, since if they didnt foresee the plague, and also sending the letter to post etc take time

probably take weeks or months for it to arrive

[visual coral]

elaborate please

[azure bay]

.

[carmine field]

He needs it for Dale's enlightenment

[azure bay]

actually we don't know. If they just needed memories they could take them in theatre as they did in CE Theatre. TWD looks like they are returning them. Maybe they still need Bob or maybe they don't and are just restoring him before setting him free

[rare snow]

Hi

[azure bay]

hey

[royal notch]

Alright, so... First of all, i think the initial question would be: where does the black cube comes from? How did Rose manage to get it out?

[azure bay]

She works for TWD

Or BKM

Doesn't matter that much

[royal notch]

Wait, how can you say that?

[azure bay]

The cubical device is designed after TWD computer and even was named after the organisation in one of the trailers

And BKM lives were made in Rose's lab

And they have her memories on VHS

[royal notch]

Are you talking about ARG stuff? Because i don't get a thing, and i played yesterday!

[azure bay]

Exactly

[royal notch]

Guess i'll leave, then.

[azure bay]

Go to #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg

There's a doc pinned

[royal notch]

Is it really impossible to theorize about TPW without considering the ARG?

[azure bay]

There's no direct connection

Only the lab and Rose's tape

[royal notch]

Ah, okay then!

I though to be out of the world, when the first thing you told me was:- Rose works for BKM.-!

So, Rose resurrected Albert only for science sake?

[azure bay]

We have no idea

I mean, nothing to confirm her motivation

I'm almost sure she's the one who contacted him 1st

But it's hard to tell

[royal notch]

What do you think about their communication trough time? How could they suggest their informations to each other?

[azure bay]

Just verbally, it seems. Just like the players do

[royal notch]

But how? Where does the voice of the "outer" Rose come from?

[azure bay]

The past is literally inside the cube which is literally inside the device

You can hear the music coming from outside

[royal notch]

I was also questioning if they actually knew what was happening. Why both wonder whose eye is on the lens?

[royal notch]

Good point.

[azure bay]

Initially PRose didn't know FRose is the stustwothry person from the letter

[royal notch]

Yes, i was wondering why FRose was doubtful too.

[azure bay]

Was she?

I don't remember much the future lense part

[royal notch]

After the chamber breaking, the lense is revealed.

We can interact with it just like in the Past.

An eye appear, and Rose says:- Who is that?-. The only difference is that this lense isn't glowing to tell the player to click it.

Screenshot real quick!

Could be just a similitude.

[azure bay]

Maybe it's the same element using the same script

[royal notch]

That.

[azure bay]

This makes no sense. FRose has to know everything. She created the 018F and had 002C blueprints

[royal notch]

The major questions i have are how did she extracted that own memory, why Albert got corrupted so late, and what actually happened in the end.

[azure bay]

I think the has apparatus and qualified personnel to do extraction

Didn't get the question about corruption

What's so late about it?

[royal notch]

The point i don't get of these ARG is the fact that memory extraction seems to be a new, but known medical process, not anymore a secret kept by enlighteneds. What about their low profiles?

[azure bay]

TWD was already dealing with memories and corrupted souls

Dr. Hoorn wrote a book about a CS

And its brain

[royal notch]

I don't understand why Albert got corrupted only with coins in place. I talked in the past about the fact that corrupted souls get in control of their own dead bodies when memories are extracted from then. The same reasoning should be still valid if we think that Albert's sacrifice was his brain. Though he should have got corrupted immediately after.

[royal notch]

Again, that's exactly the weird point. Why so many people know all these things?

[azure bay]

They all work for Owl

[royal notch]

Why would Mr Owl allow that?

[azure bay]

Owl's a businessman, not scientist, not even alchemist

If he needs more knowledge, he has to share

[royal notch]

Okay, but still, isn't it risky to share knowledge that only higher consciousnesses can reach?

[azure bay]

It's not higher consciousness

Cubes always existed

Ans souls always existed

And alchemists existed for long

It's only natural they are to be studied eventually

[royal notch]

But only the enlighteneds know all these things. That's because (for now) memory extraction happens only at the Lake.

[azure bay]

Somebody had to be the 1st creator of the elixir

And Paradise cultists were practicing some form of memory extraction

Mere humans

[royal notch]

Being literally in the middle of the Lake.

I guess the Lake can show its true himself if he wants, helping whoever he choses.

[azure bay]

The chapel features the images of events that happened far from the lake

[royal notch]

What painting?

[azure bay]

Or has nothing to do with this

Yeah, it needs memories

But they clearly exist without it

[royal notch]

I don't get these late statements.

[azure bay]

The knowledge about memory extraction doesn't have to originate from the lake

[royal notch]

What painting shows an actual cube in a place far from the Lake?

[azure bay]

2 of them

The one to the left and the one to the right

Both feature Bethlehem

[royal notch]

We don't know where these are set. Their original messages have been changed for gameplay sake.

[azure bay]

The devs say it's RL history

And the stories are recognizeable despite the cubes

Too recognizeable

And are related to the same person

[royal notch]

Who was the queen asking for the Baptist's head?

[azure bay]

That was changed, I agree

But the other 2 have are more difficult to do so

And have no evidence of them being something different

[royal notch]

Who is the person? Jesus? I never saw the originals.

[azure bay]

Yep

Anyways. Owl spreads the knowledge. That's the fact and we can't do anything to that

What about Albert's corruption?

@royal notch

[royal notch]

Sorry, unexpected visit! Gotta run! I'll tell you tomorrow!

[azure bay]

Ok, the last answer then. We saw that Roses entered their respective cubes and swittched places

At the very momoent of entering the other cube

They were sucked in into merging and breaking out the loop and its cubes into the lake where time doesn't exist and souls blossom

[carmine field]

UB spoiler ||Could Harvey be traveling through cubes?||

just a guess

[floral mauve]

perhaps but could it be ||a cube that contains many cubes?||

||Since we got a general universe which is Rusty Lake, and every cube that floats in it is a world or timelines. Apparently, ppl in each timeline also got their memory cubes which is their own world that can be altered, thats some existential crisis shit, I give up||

[carmine field]

What do you guys think about the idea of ​​Harvey being able to travel through the cubes in general?

It could explain Harvey's appearances in both Paradise and TPW, but I'm not sure

I also remember when we enter the white cube in Hotel

or Harvey's appearance in Birthday

[ebon aspen]

Why would he do it?
What evidences we have about it?

Im way more fond of believing he simply is immortal as of now

[bright parrot]

If he's immortal then that may mean he's enlightened

Unlike Owl and Crow who needs elixir

[ebon aspen]

Well, we also dont know how he achieved immortality (or if he isnt just a very old fellow)

We also dont know how enlightened being truly are

[bright parrot]

According to game (atleast till now) asuras and devas (which either look alike or no one knows how deva looks)

Are enlightened beings

[bright parrot]

Yes and most probably devs are developing Harvey and Laura now

Because these are incomplete characters

We know a lot about dale

But almost nothing about Laura

[ebon aspen]

Asuras sure arent enlightened beings

[carmine field]

Roots and Paradise say otherwise

[ebon aspen]

?

[carmine field]

The phrase on the right page is a brief explanation of how the Elixir works, although the Paradox version is related to Dale and the vials.

"Eternal life and sudden death" seems to be just an alternative way to explain how the Elixir works.

If asuras are not enlightened beings, we would have to disregard the phrase in the book or even split the explanations into two Elixirs with different functions

[visual coral]

Since Harvey works for the Owl he definitely could

[azure bay]

@floral mauve he's an animal. Period

[bright parrot]

Rose is like albert

Frank is like emma

And leonard is like samuel

So were all these personalities inside

James

[floral mauve]

I am an animal?

[azure bay]

Sry, wrong ping

@bright parrot Harvey is an animal

[bright parrot]

And an asura

[azure bay]

No, no more

[bright parrot]

But he was

Then he wasn't

Then he was again

(and so on)

[azure bay]

This makes no sense

[bright parrot]

He was bird in paradise and roots

Asura in hotel

UB

[azure bay]

UB is a big metaphor and Samsara Wheels covering the same time period are blunt about Harvey being just a birb

[fierce beacon]

i thought he was more significant

like a kind of guide

[azure bay]

That doesn't contradict him being a bird

[fierce beacon]

he stands for something metaphorically

[bright parrot]

Explain

[fierce beacon]

theres a deeper meaning than "just a bird"

[azure bay]

UB and the subway are just the stage for telling the story of Laura's life. Harvey is just another actor. That doesn't mean he's an asura for real.

We'll definitely see 1971 and 1972 and Harvey will still look humanoid but in the reality Samsara wheels from these years are definite about him being a bird

[bright parrot]

Still what about hotel

[azure bay]

In Hotel he was asura

Until he died

[bright parrot]

That means he was mortal

And was reborn by samsara cycle

[tawny pulsar]

what is the significance of the chapel in case 23? upon revisting the CE collection, it looks like it would be something important, with the fetus and the bird skull

[floral mauve]

thats a funny one

but crap I dont feel in the mood of typing long paragraphs right now sorry, nowhere might able to explain it for me

[royal notch]

@azure bay, i hate when i disappear so quickly when me myself want to start the conversation, i'm sorry for being such a ghost.

[azure bay]

Eh? Ok

[royal notch]

About Albert's corruption, I'm trying to understand why he got corrupted only after the coins.

All the other cases of memory extraction seem to have an almost immediate risk of corruption.

A theory could be that, in Albert's case, a proper extraction didn't happen.

[floral mauve]

I mean ppl can still get corrupted even without memory extraction?

[royal notch]

He just lost his entire brain.

For now we haven't seen any case.

[azure bay]

We have Caroline, William, Van Gogh, the guests and Bob

[floral mauve]

just painful death perhaps

or depression

involves extremely negative emotions

[azure bay]

Albert's soul clearly needed the memories and had them despite the brain being taken out

[royal notch]

Caroline was burned, William wasn't corrupted, the guest were eaten and Bob lost his memories someway. We know too little about Van Gogh, but he seems to have some memory problems too ("What do I remember?").

[azure bay]

William was corrupted

[royal notch]

No...?

[azure bay]

Samsara Room

His original state is called corrupted soul

[royal notch]

We clearly see his body.

[azure bay]

And he looks like one in refrections and on the murals

[floral mauve]

and in Roots its quite clear when he is invisible everywhere and CS in mirror reflection

[azure bay]

Body isn't required for corrupted souls

[royal notch]

Being William's corrupted soul and corrupting William isn't necessarily the same thing. At least for how i see it. And yes, i don't consider corrupted souls part of the samsara well.

[royal notch]

In fact William never corrupted his body.

[azure bay]

Bad for you, the game clearly does

[vivid bridge]

yeah but he's still a corrupted soul

[floral mauve]

His soul got corrupted not his body

[royal notch]

I didn't say the contrary.

[royal notch]

I didn't say the contrary.

[floral mauve]

I dont even get the main argument here

[azure bay]

There's nothing to tell apart corrupted souls from corrupted "bodies" they have similar powers and behavial patterns

And they are all called corrupted souls

Dark souls

Hungry ghosts

Pretas

[royal notch]

I don't think so, because otherwise they wouldn't corrupt their bodies every time they can.

[floral mauve]

however, there is a difference if the person/creature didnt die, he is able to return to human state or uncorrupt

[royal notch]

I also call them like that in both cases.

[floral mauve]

its much harder if it dies, it will require a long process of balancing past life to escape the CS state

[azure bay]

That's just a fact, they act similarly and have similar powers throughout the series, you can't deny it

[royal notch]

It isn't my intention.

[floral mauve]

.

[royal notch]

But still, having a physical body must give advantages of some kind. Easiness in killing, for example.

[azure bay]

There's really nothing to tell them apart except the fact that some of them have taken over their bodies and some haven't

[floral mauve]

I told u, it might has something to do with reversing corruption but only if he isnt dead like Bob or maybe Dale

[royal notch]

Why? They have clear reasons for doing that.

[royal notch]

Exactly.

[azure bay]

Just the fact, deal with it

[floral mauve]

in other cases, since William died, no use even he got a flesh body in front of him

not sure about Laura's case since she is special

Albert, well, he didnt use his old body, instead he created a new one so its the same, useless

[royal notch]

"Theories are useless, let's just deal with the gameplay."

[floral mauve]

chill bruh

[azure bay]

Theories are usefull as long as they have evidence

The theory of corrupted bodies has none

[royal notch]

I have quite a bunch. And i'm chilled, no offense wanted.

[azure bay]

Ok, what's the evidence of the difference?

[royal notch]

The fact that, as you said, some take over bodies and some doesn't. The reason is why, and i have a reason, which is though, as everything, a theory (supported by some evidences, if you want. BUT BEWARE: we all know here that everyone can see what can be seen in his own ways, even to support his points. That's what every human being does.).

[azure bay]

That's the origin difference. But there's no apparent difference in their powers and bihavior

Even Albert

He starts as a corrupted body

But in the end we build a new one for him as if he were incorporeal

[royal notch]

For now, no. Yet every case we saw has done it. Maybe a body is easier to control, for communication, for killing for reasons still uncertain. That's true.

[azure bay]

Caroline communicates just as easily as Albert or Bob

[royal notch]

Here i would say that a simple dead body rot in such a time span, and Albert became again just soul.

[royal notch]

It was an example.

[azure bay]

The guests kill just as easily as Bob or Laura

They all can disappear, teleport, maybe pass through walls no matter if they had a body in the beginning

[royal notch]

Other examples. Don't take things too literal, i just said that the reasons are unclear.

They seems to want to posses it tho.

[azure bay]

What I'm saying, they have much more in common than something that differs them

Even the naming

[royal notch]

I agree with this, yet again so many characters have gone trough this. Who knows, maybe it's just a silly life attachment, a refuse to being ghosts.

[azure bay]

Either way, it's on the devs

[floral mauve]

Dark Soul

[azure bay]

They keep them as close as possible

[royal notch]

Maybe it's just another visual representation of their anger and frustration, without calling out new abilities.

But it happens.

At least in every case where all memories are extracted from the body.

And the body is still reachable, of course.

[azure bay]

Not every case

"Use the machine wisely, extraction of painful memories COULD cause corruption"

And also we the same warning in BKM

And 4 patients having their memories extracted with no corruption

[royal notch]

I modified my message because it was wrong.

Corruption always happens when all memories are extracted. If this is only a probability matter, everyone is being quite unlucky.

[azure bay]

Corruption is caused by uncareful extraction of painful memories

BKM doesn't extract all the memories

Only those chosen by the patient

And still the warn about possible corruption

[royal notch]

This may be okay talking about human or even enlighteneds' hands, but the Lake? Not even the Lake can extract memories carefully? How do we explain Dale's case?

[azure bay]

1. Dale's memories were not extracted and I wouldn't call him corrupted
2. BKM DID extract painful memories without causing corruption

[royal notch]

Dale's memories are clearly extracted by the Lake itself at the end of C23 and from then on is dealing with corruption. He has to face its own soul.

[azure bay]

I wouldn't qualify them as extracted for 1 simple reason

He still remembers and recognizes them

In BKM when memory is gone it's gone

And Dale's semi-corruption starts only in the end of The Cave and it's weird on its own

[royal notch]

After seeing them, maybe. He says that he sees his memories in little cubes and then declares that the Lake is changing them. An example: we have not proof that Dale remembers what happened in the theatre, then he sees the specific cube. After that, Dale remembers now that past (having just seen it) and also remembers the original one, which his still recognizable; his journey may consist in confronting his real past with the new one to deal with traumas and understand his role: remaining in Theatre's case, the lesson is samsara.

[royal notch]

Even for the others. But Dale has to see them again, for the reason above.

[azure bay]

Exactly, he sees them, recognizes them and knows well enough to tell if they are changed

[royal notch]

AFTER seeing them.

[azure bay]

Doesn't matter

If he didn't know them, he'd have no clue

[royal notch]

What i'm trying to say is that he has no clue until he see them. He achieves the faked memory and also the real one.

Not remembering none before.

The reason i think this is that this seem quite a nice way to "deal with the past", as Mr Owl wants. Exchanging memories, creating just a fake, happier past, seems a bit semplificative.

[azure bay]

That's not how it works

It can't click inside your head if it isn't there

[royal notch]

What do you mean with the clicking?

[azure bay]

The moment of recognition

You can recongnise nothing if there's nothing inside your head to compare it to

[royal notch]

The fake memory itself is the comparison.

If only i could be more clear...

[azure bay]

But it's not

You need an example of something real in your head

To be able to tell the fake apart from it

And what's more, the altered memories are not fake

TPW proves they are as real as the reality itself

[royal notch]

Rose used 2 specifical device for interaction, the alteration may be caused trough those.

[azure bay]

No, mere machinery can't create giant teeth

[royal notch]

The teeth isn't created, is transported.

I'm not saying that the cubes weren't altered, i'm saying that the alteration is caused by the machinery.

Reality alteration, meaning that.

[azure bay]

What I'm saying, if the tooth is real, the memory is real too

[royal notch]

As well its alteration. But because these are created by technology.

I honestly think we're saying the same thing here.

[azure bay]

No, I'm saying that every cube contains reality and every alteration is real inside them technology or not.

But

Every cube contains its own isolated reality

Own timeline

Because otherwise TPW decanonizes the whole CE series

Roots

Samsara Room

The White Door

The Past Within itself

And the upcoming Underground Blossom

[royal notch]

Why the entire story would be deleted? Couldn't Rose resurrect Albert in one timeline, and grow Laura in another?

The TPW end is the opposite of clear, probably everything had just been deleted in the Lake, but there are other timelines. The official announce was for me the UB description.

[azure bay]

It's not deleted

Roses are liberated

Their soul blossoms

Everything in RL are cubes except for the lake itself

[royal notch]

But then everyone and everything is trapped.

[azure bay]

Yes

And for the most it's ok

Just like samsara

In buddhism

[royal notch]

It doesn't make sense. How can everyone travel? In how many places has been Bob in TWD?

How can Mr Boar be an ambassador?

[azure bay]

They just are

The cubes are just the doors

The realities are vaster than 1 room

[royal notch]

That's just mindblowing. This means that reality itself are just cubes. And there is no real Lake, the Lake is basically a mutiversus.

[azure bay]

I'd say the water surface is a portal into that multiverse nexus

It makes sense because otherwise we've got a floating land mass

Where the hotel is built

Completely detached from the lake bottom

[royal notch]

What is the Lake then? If it is an actual body of water, there must be an "upper" reality, one more important than the others inside it.

There must be an universe containing a multiverse, i mean.

[azure bay]

Back to the topic

Bad memory extraction doesn't guarantee corruption

In BKM it's performed by mortals

Dale's memory aren't completely extracted in the traditional sense

Either he sees the multiverse or these are really his cubes but he keeps the link to them

His corruption is questionable and isn't connected to the lake

But rather to The Cave machine

[royal notch]

Back to the topic another time! You can't just kill me like that and leaving me in the middle of an existential crisis!

[azure bay]

As u wish

[royal notch]

Thank you.

Really.

I don't think i'll sleep tonight.

Wait a second, didn't you wanted to release a video about TPW on YouTube?

YOU ALREADY DID! I'LL BE BACK IN [INSERT VIDEO LENGHT HERE)!

[royal notch]

@azure bay, just for fairness, is it okay if i ping you?

[azure bay]

Be my guest

@royal notch

[royal notch]

Thank you. Have a nice weekend!

[plain token]

What happens exactly in the end of paradox chapters ?You just find a cube containing your self trying to escape again?Is the cube the memory of dale escaping the room?

[visual coral]

Paradox itself is Dale's fever dream while his head is connected to the machine and is made to force Dale to make a choice. At the end of each chapter the paradox just restarts and repeats itself. And Dale finding the Golden Cube and escaping is the true ending

[plain token]

So the white cube is kind of like one of his memories?

[visual coral]

what white cube?

I don't remember Paradox that well

[tawny pulsar]

there was no white cube in paradox, i think hes refering to cave when dale is in the machine

dale is bassically in a time loop until he gets the golden cube

[azure bay]

Or dies

[tawny pulsar]

so laura could live

[azure bay]

Maybe it's a dream but its structure is pretty straight-forward

The iteration restarts only when Dale finds a cube about it and enters it

[plain token]

This one

the black cube at the end must be a bad memory of him escaping

[carmine field]

I'm playing Samsara Room again
Is this text referencing something that Mr. Owl told William in the past?

'Do not forget your purpose' and 'Become enlightened' makes me believe that Mr. Owl actually ordered the alchemist brothers to create the elixir and drink it

I know this text is a clue to a puzzle, but if it were just that, there would be no reason to put what the owl said

[azure bay]

It sounds more like the barn owl from Samsara Room

And the book looks like it was written by Rose

[carmine field]

Rose's book was another one

In my opinion, the Samsara book may have been written by William himself, considering the reference to Samsara in his laboratory

He probably knew about what he would have to go through to be reincarnated

Maybe the book is a guide for himself in Samsara Room

After all, he doesn't seem to remember what happened or what he has to do while inside the room

[carmine field]

It seems so, but the fact that it is an owl that gives William a mission made me bring it up. The text could be an allegory

This ties well with all the evidence we have of any connection that William and Aldous had with Mr. Owl in the past

[tawny pulsar]

you could say... its a cube inside a cube

[visual coral]

That white cube is Laura's memories and it only exists in a timeline where Dale sacrifices himself. It's white because she didn't die

[azure bay]

They all had the same cover and close titles

[azure bay]

The ending achievement is called enlightenment. That's literally the goal of the game evoked multiple times

[azure bay]

... inside a cube inside Dale's mind

[azure bay]

It's the cube of Paradox that turned white after Dale sacrifices himself

[bright parrot]

What's the paradox in cube escape paradox

Another thing

Cubes must have an orgin

There can be cube inside cube but there must be an end

[azure bay]

Dale seeing Dale killing Laura

that means Mr. Owl will be just a fish

an animal

brainless

[azure bay]

the lake

[bright parrot]

And where did the cube in lake come from

People right?

[azure bay]

no idea

where did samsara come from?

[bright parrot]

Which means he'll die soon as a human

[azure bay]

he's not human

[bright parrot]

Samsara as in game?

[azure bay]

does it matter?

[bright parrot]

He's temporary asura right?

[azure bay]

he's safe to drink elixir

[bright parrot]

But asuras are immortal

[azure bay]

they are not

we saw 6 of them killed

and Owl's anatomy was changed

and his Jakob body was burnt so it was a legit rebirth in a new body

that doesn't even really look like Jakob

[bright parrot]

Okay

[bright parrot]

A new human body ?

If he's born asura then he must not need elixir

[azure bay]

you don't know that

we don't have much reference

maybe Owl is an exception

maybe he's the rule

as a matter of fact, he's legit reborn, he has a new body, he has asura form and he's enlightened and can't die through elixir

nor get enlightened again

[bright parrot]

So why does he need elixir

[azure bay]

I know

but I don't think it had a beginning

[bright parrot]

It's a circle of life

A circle has no ends it's a closed loop

[azure bay]

I'd rather say it's a spiral

it goes in circles but does it repeat itself?

and spirals may or may not have ends

[bright parrot]

It's said to be a circle

And the one who breaks the circle in known as enlightened

[carmine field]

What I'm saying doesn't contradict that. My point is that the text could be an allegory for the fact that owl says that William has a purpose.

[azure bay]

or just some spiritual owl encouraging William to be reborn

maybe the owl "is not what it seems"

[carmine field]

It's a possibility too, considering the owl's symbolism since Paradise

Still, I don't think we should dismiss the idea that Mr. Owl was the one who pushed William and Aldous to make the elixir

[azure bay]

That's not what I'm dismissing

I'm dismissing that being described in the samsara book

[carmine field]

Yes, the books are similar, but the contents may be different. Starting with the fact that the Circle of Life shown in Samsara Room is different from the wheel of Samsara.
As for Rose's name, I don't deny that she may have written something, but the book could only be there because she is an important factor in William's rebirth and someone who helped him a lot.

[azure bay]

Connecting the book title to the "circle of life" seen in the beginning is another leap

[carmine field]

The game is about the 'Circle of Life' shown at the beginning, after all
The only thing we could find about Samsara in this game is the fact that William is in the process of being reincarnated, isn't that right?

[azure bay]

The circle of life in general is samsara. And the circle in the beginning is bs

[tawny pulsar]

this circle?

[azure bay]

Yep

Also @carmine field both titles are about this very book

[tawny pulsar]

the circle of life might just be a specific part of samsara

which is why there could be 2 books about samsara in general, and the cycle of life

[carmine field]

Oh I see

[azure bay]

Usually the circle of life is also called the samsara wheel with 6 realms. Also look at the book title on my screenshot

[rare snow]

Hi

[azure bay]

Hello again

It's been a while

[rare snow]

I am new here

What type of group it is

[covert wyvern]

@rare snow be sure to check out id:guide and #✅｜rules

[rare snow]

Yes mam🫡

Any philisopher here?

[steel idol]

Slightly

[carmine field]

animal Harvey is sapient?

[steel idol]

Sapient or sentient?

[royal notch]

I believe him having the same consciousness as before his death. So that he can still be helpful to Mr Owl & Co. But yeah, still being a simple parrot.

[pure spindle]

I think he's both.

[bright parrot]

@azure bay can blue cubes be used for future

[azure bay]

Wdym?

[bright parrot]

Can blue cubes help you travel the future

[azure bay]

It does in Seasons

[bright parrot]

But we can without blue cube too

[azure bay]

Yes, but slowly

Memory by memory

Like IRL

Our beds are each a neat time machine

[bright parrot]

I use my desk sometimes as a time machine too

[bright parrot]

But if it's a memory then why do you need a blue cube to skip time

[azure bay]

Because memories are realities

That abide the same rules

[bright parrot]

Are cubes inside memories metaphor to something

[azure bay]

maybe maybe not

maybe gameplay

maybe real cubes that lead to further points of her memories

[sudden dust]

Wait, so what exactly happened in birthday? ||Did Dale’s family actually die? Did the Rabbit actually die? Is the ending of Birthday just Dale’s imagination or something? In Paradox it does say his parents died I think||

[steel idol]

I personally think it’s a duality, because they did die, and if the grampaknew mr rabbit was coming then the parents probably also knew on some level that they had died, so he definitely still had the memory and possibly a mirror (or arg type thing) where they stayed dead

And paradox was his fever dream type thing, so it would make sense for him to mix with memories and be confused as to what was real

I don’t know if rabbit died or not, have to get someone more knowledgeable

[azure bay]

Guys, everybody knew. Because Dale told everyone when he got back. "How did you know?" asked father

[steel idol]

Yes, that means that his father doesn’t understand what happened fully

[azure bay]

Nobody does because it's not normal. Grandpa's only difference is that, for one reason or another, he took a child seriously

Warning everyone is a natural thing for Dale to do and that's not the only occasion where we hear not a word from him

When he's canonically spoken

[steel idol]

So the parents didn’t know what actually happened or that they had died, they just knew their kid was saying it would happen

[azure bay]

Yep

[steel idol]

Then why say everybody knew?

[azure bay]

I mean they could know

If they've listened

And grandpa did

[sudden dust]

Also, what was the rabbit’s intention for the murder?
Is it covered? idk I’m not that good with the lore

[azure bay]

He came for the pistol from his past life he needed for his rebirth

[steel idol]

He says something along the lines of “I’m sorry I need the elixir”