Road to Restoration – Early Game Rebalance

[lean star]

to draw me to it

one of the appeals though is the much faster progression though

and that it is a fresh start in a game mode

so highscores matetr more

[quartz ridge]

Is that really a thing?

[[anachronia agility]]

[manic mountain]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Anachronia_Agility_Course

[quartz ridge]

Is the level 85 section completable in <20 seconds?

[gleaming snow]

Looks like Jagex were willing to make some compromises to some of the changes at least, which I appreciate, with the exception of the items introduced with treasure hunter (which I fully understand them removing), I hope they at least find other ways to allow players to get the rewards they would normally get from flash events through other community type events, because flash events are one of the few things that brought the community together, and you got rewarded generously for it.

[lean star]

in the agility guides you have to do sections of anachronia repeatedly

because the courses designed for that levels are just so bad

[[Ironman Mode/Strategies/Agility]]

[manic mountain]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Ironman_Mode/Strategies/Agility

[clever halo]

Bleh. That sucks. For sure needs a fix.

[lean star]

same for normal mode cause agility isn't a buyable or reliant on resources

[last flicker]

They mentioned portable obelisk, obelisk shard, and dark onyx would be moved to drop tables in the wilderness. Any other rewards you're thinking of?

[lean star]

agreed

[brittle plaza]

From todays news post, highly relevant for this thread

[lean star]

the first course you really start to do is at lvl 52 which is wildy course and that requires a demonic skull for it to be good

[brittle plaza]

In particular last point. The idea jagex wants to delete AFK was a myth from the start

[lean star]

the first course i really started to level on on my IM account was hets oasis because i don't like the skull

which is lvl 65

i don't want the stress that a skull would give me

before that i used quests (planning to do quests just for agility xp) and extending dailies

and circus

[last flicker]

The hunting change is big

Maybe this change goes through before leagues and I can really notice it and have more fun

[clever halo]

Yeah, I think it's an underrated change. Most of Hunter was quietly completely dead content.

[ocean lintel]

Love the changes. Honestly have no complaints. Won't matter to me much, but it will be easier to recommend the game now without me needing to babysit and guide my friends for a day or two as they get started.

[quartz ridge]

I mean, you talked about the lap reward

Which is only a thing once you hit 85

At earlier levels, the sections are kinda intended to be their own things, aren’t they?

[lean star]

but thats why i say the lap reward should be increased if you want to buff anachronia because otherwise anachronia sections become meta for longer or for lower levels

if you buff all obstacles

and i think it should be avoided that anachronia becomes the meta for all agility levels

[real trail]

Oh man I have like ~300 pures I cannot explain to u how tired I am of doing the same quests on a loop

[lean star]

imo it should be something like this:

1-5/10 burthorpe
5/10-25 gnome
25-40 something barbarian outpost
40-60 something wildy (*)
60-75 hets oasis
75-85 hefin
85-100 anachronia
100-110 new method
110-120 new method

then an early game course in al kharid and a mid game course in menaphos maybe could make sense so

1-10 burthorpe
10-20 gnome
20-30 al kharid (NEW one)
30-40 barbarian
40-50 wildy
50-60/65 menaphos (NEW one)
60/65-75 hets oasis
75-85 hefin
85-100 anachronia
100-110 new one
110-120 new one

something like this is i think what they should aim for

ape atoll & penguin & dorgesh kaan are alternatives but they're so outdated courses that idk if they even should still have a place in the meta

[real trail]

u mean u dont want to hop the nature grotto log to 50 agility?

[lean star]

yeah thats the meta rn until lvl 30

[rapid cobalt]

20-30 al kharid (NEW one)
Al Kharid already has a course, kinda. Climbing along the roofs -> ||eagle dive|| near the bank (spoilering 'cause it's a cool moment to experience 😁)

[lean star]

yeah thats my suggestion

to use that one

like some ppl want rooftops, i don't think it makes sense for rs3 but in al kharid it actually does since we already have it kinda, it's just not really an agility course

but they could transform it into one

[rapid cobalt]

I also feel like certain chains of shortcuts could give a 'lap bonus' same as how doing a segment of Anachronia does. Eg: +1k exp for going Lletya -> Tyras camp would be a nice wee bonus for just exploring / doing your quests.

There are other options too of big travel = agility exp. Like...
+ 5k agility exp per chimp ice delivery
+15k exp for completing the great gielinor run (that Tyras Camp -> Castle Drakan achievement) 👀 I'd love to see how that's optimised with powerbursts and such being a thing now.

[lean star]

oh chimp ice delivery, don't remind me of that lol

[hot comet]

(daily challenges count segments as laps btw)

[lean star]

xp for great gielinor run is a good idea

maybe playing tag

like tagging a beginning point

and tagging an end point

"an agility post"

could also introduce a minigame playing tag pvp maybe

in an arena

where abilities are allowed

[magic gull]

Cook's Assistant feedback being ignored apparently 😔 it's so over chat

[lean star]

ugh not everyone agreed with that feedback

[quartz ridge]

I still don’t understand how buffing the Anachronia lap reward helps with that

If you can do the entire course, which isn’t until level 85, I don’t think it’s ever better not to

[rapid cobalt]

Just 'cause feedback doesn't get responded to, doesn't mean that it's ignored either. I'm sure every message in all #1026505077210480660 threads gets read and considered by someone (hi jmods 👋)

[quartz ridge]

…wait, you were talking about other courses? That wasn’t what you said before

[lean star]

if you want to buff all of agility because it's a slow skill for a skill that isn't afk you have to look at the lap reward

otherwise the meta remains the same

if everything gets a flat x2 bonus

and it rewards doing the entire lap

[lean star]

that only applies for beyond lvl 85

and i'm suggesting ideas to make agility post-85 also faster

i consider anachronia a high level end game course

[quartz ridge]

Right

[lean star]

i talked about the other laps to give an example how i envision the ideal progression in terms of course and i think aside of it being a fast skill, more variety probably helps in that general progression of the skill. It's for instance what makes archaeology (generally) liked despite being slow (ofc it's also more afk-able), but you get the point, a change of visual scenery always helps a bit

esp with courses

which are fun to do the first time

but not really when done 250 times in a row

so the key is steady and fast progression

it is a skill if rs3 was a more modern game that likely would've never been added but you can't say "let's remove agility" because ppl who have 99 agility will not like that, so this is the best work-a-round i think.

And for al kharid the infrastructure for an agility course is already present.

ape atoll & penguin is i think a bit more annoying because (iirc) you have to use the monkey greegree (be an ape) for ape atoll and be a penguin for the penguin one and both are also locked behind quests (one of those being monkey madness, and the other i think is cold war), but correct me if i'm wrong

[halcyon basin]

Those are the correct quests, yes

[gleaming snow]

I didn’t mean flash event exclusive rewards, I meant the fact you got rewarded for taking part in the flash event, no flash events means no earning rewards from flash events

[last flicker]

Thanks for the explanation. I was a bit lost. So you mean the bags then or the xp?

[lean star]

slayer
112 thieving (fairy trader)
and bossing and croessus

runespan isn't that dead, it has happened more often than not that i see someone else, out of all minigames/d&d it's one of the more active ones i'd say

ofc minigames in general tend to be abit dead over all, and stuff like caches is far more active than runespan but it isn't "dead".

used to be AG 0 mechanic also but they nerfed that
croesus is best, but also slayer & bossing & pickpocketing fairy trader also now
i actually think the gp can be rougher sometimes (but again bossing & thieving is useful for getting gp and wfes for as long they'll still be there)

100% agreed, i also think summoning can be a bit rough to learn how to use the familiars and for what, i think there's a lot of potential for it to become better & more utility etc. Could be a great skill for a 110/120 update in future i think

invention is a great skill but one with a high learning curve, maybe some UI improvements could be made, thereis alot you can do with the skill and it can be a maze to dig through it. But once you do it's rewarding

[signal sentinel]

I'm happy with the new post.

[lean star]

yes absolutely

[signal sentinel]

Particularly with the Chaos Altar change. I'm close to finishing the medium Wildy diary

[lean star]

transmute items could benefit from a rework

[brittle plaza]

Invention is a mess in many regards, including having perks largely being relegated to something you do after you hit 120

[lean star]

the cheese needed a nerf but i think thenerf itself is too harsh, esp. for ironman as they'll have to gather the flowers. It's more than a 60% nerf essentially for us

[brittle plaza]

Some things are outright broken like dungeoneering part simulator (literally does nothing)

[signal sentinel]

Invention is too difficult to learn without consulting a guide of some sort. I certainly struggled my way to 27

[brittle plaza]

I don't think its great that you have to consult the wiki to have remotely a good idea of what the end perk will look like

[lean star]

isn't that the one for the karamja elite diary, or is that another one?

[signal sentinel]

That's the one Lakigigar

But they changed it to Medium instead

Especially the Shilo gem mine underneath the main one

[lean star]

chaos altar seems now to be tied to wildy diaries

[signal sentinel]

I prefer that change personally

It's not nearly as bad as the constant risk of being griefed

Especially with that NPC next to the altar you can bank with after finishing the Hard diary

[lean star]

in 2004 the bar was much lower and it felt all much newer, gaming today has evolved, agility just didn't stand the test of time (that isn't a criticism or something, it's just the way it is, it was cool in 2004 but not really today anymore but the skill still exists.

that's why agility is extremely hard to fix. Something like divination - while hated - is much easier to fix (which they seem to be doing)

although reworking the use of it can be more challenging

[signal sentinel]

The issue with agility is that it's too active for the XP rates it gives

I should be able to get 250k xp an hour, minimum, with full active play

No matter the skill

There's a reason RuneLite for OSRS has a plugin that enables you to see the hitboxes to click for rooftop obstacles

Nothing feels more aggravating than continuously missing the hitbox for an agility obstacle

Without the Greater surefooted aura being taken away, I'd argue in favor of reducing the fail rates on obstacles

[lean star]

yes the thieving buffs got a bit overlooked because of the afk pickpocketing nerf for high level players but i like the changes for early levels like the doors, ibis drop rates etc

whirligigs is weird, i also run from one side to the pond to the other, i would have to open the wardrobe interface to prevent that from happening (lol)

hunter isn't a hard 99 (at least for the next six days), it's just a lot of clicking, but it is fast, esp after 90. And BGH is a success, other than that the skill sucks tho. And BGH isn't great i feel for actually levelling up the skill. Felt slow, but could be a skill issue from my part

underrated activity, doesn't take long tho to get the outfit

POR????

player owned restaurant 😂

[rapid cobalt]

The wardrobe thing is weird. I haven't tried it but have heard it mentioned as a fix to the running around thing. No one would care and I'm absolutely not suggesting any action should be taken (it's a creative solution to a flaw of the activity), but since it doesn't seem intended, it feels like bug abuse 🙈

[lean star]

they did mention it in the post, its going to be fixed

POF has a learning curve yes, it's intimidating. It is OP but farming is timegated so i don't mind it. The tree runs is more annoying i'd say.

[rapid cobalt]

Combo that with the construction update. 😂 Hosting dinner parties for NPC guests who have different likes, dislikes, allergies and preferences.

[lean star]

yea i mean the problem with dailies is that it takes 1h30, now it'll be reduced to 10 mins for the POF and the ports

and no longer having to care about the hourlies either

agreed

i think no allotment is worth planting actually unfortunately

maybe tie honeycombs to disease prevention instead of using honeycomsb for the fix

although that makes feeding the animals pointless

increase cap of food? or make animals no longer need food when they're elders?

[tropic hamlet]

I did a bit of BGH in leagues

and it still felt slow

but I was also in China playing on phone with 400 ping

[lean star]

+1000 for necro

agreed with arch to some extent but i also don't mind that the best rewards are late

divination we see a step in right direction

fish & cooking need a massive buff/rework

same for summoning which is heavily end game stuff

fletching could use orikalkum arrows, bane arrows, necronium arrows and so on to be better in line maybe?

agreed with QOL and M&S being far better than in osrs

[novel gyro]

Fletching is already in the works.

[tropic hamlet]

Funny thing about early game progression, magic is actually kind of nuts

At level 60 you get t60 god staff and cape for free, then you get T60 power armor for free (lunar armor) from lunar diplomacy at 65

[novel gyro]

How is 60 early game?

[hot comet]

60 is kind of end of early game start of mid game

[novel gyro]

Sounds more mid than early to me.

[teal kiln]

mid is at 99

[tropic hamlet]

not going to engage with you

[lean star]

i mean... i did fill in these questionnaires as well

and from what i can see they have actually read through it. A lot of the planned changes i did mention (divination slowness, the thieving guild doors, wildy flash events, caches, early agility, a lot of details about the dailies, all of that i did write about in the questionnaire)

[lean star]

i actually think it's a potential fun idea, especially with some easter eggs of certain NPCs attending the restaurant

[halcyon basin]

God this makes me wish I had been told lunar armour was actually made useful when I restarted rs3 lol

😭

[lean star]

lunar armor is useful to grind gwd1 armor

and slayer before getting gwd1 armor

[halcyon basin]

I think I was still rocking something stupid low like mystics for ages

[rapid cobalt]

Mhm! I recently did Murder on the Border and it was a really fun quest. Liked the NPCs interactions and the whodunnit style puzzle which had a lil bit of that figuring out likes and such

[lean star]

(although most ppl will just use necro)

[halcyon basin]

Idr

[lean star]

lunar diplomacy/dream mentor are pretty good quests to do early on

[rapid cobalt]

Gotta do them so you can then play Livid Farm and understand what all the fuss is about 🤣

[lean star]

i've never done it because i keep hearing how awful it is

i probably should try it out

[rapid cobalt]

I didn't mind it personally but it did drag on a bit. Like, fine for a few hours, quite boring towards the end but YMMV

[lean star]

you never know i'm that weirdo that ends up liking it

i already bought a lot of livid plants so i'm close to unlocking some of the spells

it's probably pointless to grind it since i expect it'll get removed or made easier some way or the other to obtain these

i have like 250K points without ever touching livid farm

there is one livid plant later this month, after that i could probably just grind the rest of it to see what the fuzz is about

[rapid cobalt]

There's actually 2 more if you can be bothered to get the right animal/seeds 😁 One from the merchant, one from Pauline's PoF request

Altho' I don't know if the farm stuff will stop so maybe you can continue to ignore it until completion.

[magic gull]

I think they should have just proposed removing being able to offer bones/ashes to the Chaos Altar entirely. Because it doesn't really serve any purpose in the game besides being an overpowered method.

[teal kiln]

not even that good

[magic gull]

They kind of poisoned the discourse by talking about the demonic skull.

[teal kiln]

burials powder much more op

[lean star]

make it

normal like this x1.5 (and f2p)
wildy easy tasks x2.0
wildy medium tasks x2.5
wildy hard tasks x3.0
wildy elite tasks x3.5

i think currently is x3.5

it would be a nerf in that it is harder to do but it's much more reasonable

although if POH at lvl 75 is better than no one would use chaos altar still

and yea fort would also be easier to do (even if 90 construction is needed)

[rapid cobalt]

I feel like it's pretty fair for there to be a better alternative to just burying/scattering esp. with the nexus going which was a nice way to train early.

I feel like WFE getting removed is also a psuedo-nerf to prayer with that giving so many ashes/bones.

[lean star]

only problem with normal x1.5 is that it would be the same as any other altar

[lean star]

it is a nerf for ironmen yes

still one i'm grateful to see

don't think prayer should be trained by "just do wildy flash events" mentality

the hard um tasks allow you to teleport dragon bones (big bones for medium), there are ways. It'll be a bit more challenging but it is fine.

i use wildy sword to teleport to forinthry dungeon, kill green dragons until i had an inventory of d bones (sometimes also a few green dhide but i tried not to pick them up) and then tp back into wars, bank, repeat (kinda like abyss runs)

wildy sword actually is a stupidly OP item

teleport to herb patch, teelport to edgeville that can keybinded for abyss runs and teleport to forinthry dungeon for d bones (for prayer 75)

[rapid cobalt]

It's rly good. I'd kinda like if prayer urns did bones too for the +20% exps.

[lean star]

i used infernal ashes at the ectofuntus for the outfit.

earlier in my ironman journey i had no access to flash events though

i prefer if ectofuntus remains the best method to level up prayer (but because the bones have to be grinded it is essentially only good for ashes)

i think POH altar needs a new tier.

or even 2

which 120 construction can add

maybe add 1 that needs some eternal magic logs and these items

[rapid cobalt]

Ecto is nice and quite iconic. ^^ I did it for the 'big' bones like dragon and altar'd big/baby dragon early on. That was pre-ashes being a prayer thing tho'.

[lean star]

a prayer rework could also potentially add praying to certain factions where certain type of bones are only better among praying to certain gods if you want a bit more complexity to it.

[rapid cobalt]

I think burners could take diff. tiers of herbs too. It was weird to me that marrentil was the only option

[lean star]

true

so you could have highest tier altar being six different versions: seren, zaros, zamorak, guthix, armadyl, sara and maybe bandos.

Like say ourg bones can be offered to bandos for increased xp by praying to the right god.

and for the altar aligned with one faction you could have a specific item that is required associated with that God and maybe some tertiary like wine of zamorak, wine of sara, wine of guthix that has to be on top of that altar

[rapid cobalt]

Fun idea. I wanna offer cabbages to a brassica prime altar for prayer exp. /s

[lean star]

it would be a bit more effort but the xp would reward the more effort and it could be an idea for 110/120 prayer maybe

(probably a very hard skill to expand to 110/120 because of the implications for both utility/use/combat and also for how to make skilling prayer engaging)

prayer is generally already fast but its resource/gp-dependant. But atm important in PvM.

[rapid cobalt]

It could also be a simple fashionscape thing. Wear 1 piece of your 'god's gear for +1% exp, wear 3 pieces for +5% etc etc. Kind of reminds me of that one achievement for having 6 sara items at the abbey to get the holy harp or w/e it is.

[lean star]

rn the altars and the bones monsters drop are generic, they aren't really associated or divided in a category, making everything basically the same, just different xp and xp rates

zamorak could be more associated with ashes and ghosts (morytania, wildy, demons)
bandos with ourgs and maybe big bones and jogre and zogre ones
idk for the otehrs what bones they can have

cleansing crystals obv more associated with seren so that can be used for seren

[rapid cobalt]

Offerings don't necessarily need to be stuff dropped by dead things like bones/ashes. Could train prayer by offering sara/zammy/guthix wines, or food. That's a whole side tangent and not relevant at all to the update though so I'll stop that train of thought there.

[lean star]

good idea

would make it so that you don't necessarily have to do combat for prayer levelling

[royal sonnet]

Maybe you could tend to things inside monasteries to train prayer. Do what the monks are doing.

[rapid cobalt]

Could also be a bit task-based. Know that dungeoneering puzzle rooms where you need to return a ring to a box, repair urns, bless a coffin, or get the correct herbs and light censors? I reckon stuff like that could be done Gielinor-wide with blessing and repairing graves or shrines or whatever, construction contract-style.

[royal sonnet]

Nice idea!

[burnt locust]

Hey- I know this isn't quite the topic of THIS update, but how broken do you guys think changing "House Teleport" to function as per War's Retreat Teleport?

[rapid cobalt]

Isn't it kinda like that? You attune your portals, and go to where they are?

[burnt locust]

It'd make teleport rooms actually useful for getting around again, it'd give more uses for the house just by nature of making it easier to get there, it could do a lot to make houses become a very useful thing

[burnt locust]

Nono, the spell not the teleporters

Level 40 magic spell, costs 1 Air, 1 Earth, 1 Law

Change it to need no runes

I use War's Retreat all the time to get to bosses I want to fight- The PoH could easily act as a version of that for skillers instead of bossing

[rapid cobalt]

I'm lazy in the worst way and just homeport to prif and run over, even though I have that spell and an attuned seed for the district etc

[burnt locust]

But would you use your house more if you had a spell to freely teleport you to your PoH?

[rapid cobalt]

If I remembered it existed yeah 😂 I kinda forgot it was an option honestly

[burnt locust]

It'd be a pretty big power increase to houses, but don't they need that?

[teal kiln]

ngl i have a few random degraded items in bank that i cba to fix since i dont wanna take the runes out and tp to house lol

[burnt locust]

Exactly!

[rapid cobalt]

I take my stuff to Bob. Lil more expensive but it's kind of habit

The last time I think I went to my house was to make clockworks for archaeology which was a while ago

[burnt locust]

Yeah pretty much same, but for a clockwork mouse

[tropic hamlet]

I think the game needs to bring back some 1-ticking and multiskilling

Can't fletch arrows while running

And since you just spend the first 30 levels doing arrow shafts, it would be nice being able to attach feathers while questing

[lean star]

i saw i had to do that recently, i have to do that for some artefacts in my bank

[lean star]

the closest to it is kiting

[lean star]

i haven't even fully built the house, the only thing i did was the lay out

with all the rooms, it's just empty

i even have to mùove the portal still to the garden inside the house

[clever halo]

Man the illiterate subreddit is absolutely littered with people who didn't read today's blog and are VERY worried about losing some small level of access to 7m gp + 1.2m xp per hour for 4 clicks per hour (which they aren't even losing).

[quartz crest]

bold of you to assume there is a literate reddit user base

[pine valve]

Took me awhile to realise that player isn't standing next to an ostrich
Now I want an ostrich pet

[real trail]

https://klipy.com/gifs/blind-blind-man

[wary lake]

As a player who came back when the TH removal was announced (started in 2005 and been on and off) - I returned for some TH to get some exp as I still have so many levels to go. It feels like all of the exp gain methods aside from long hard grinds are being taken away and removed -- and I just don't have the time to commit to grinding these skills but every time I play I make a bit more progress toward the completion cape. It feels like the only method of hitting those higher levels (99 ->200m) will take even longer - and so many people got to capitalize on what waas a core mechanic for so long.

I do not mind the removal of dailyscape ideas. I just hope that there are alternatives introduced for fun experience gain that isn't stand around and grind the skill non-stop for weeks on end.

Also - what about those of us who spent loyalty points on aura's -- what happens tehre?

[manic mountain]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/_and_I_just_don't_have_the_time_to_commit_to_grinding_these_skills_but_every_time_I_play_I_make_a_bit_more_progress_toward_the_completion_cape._It_feels_like_the_only_method_of_hitting_those_higher_levels_(99_->200m)_will_take_even_longer_-_and_so_many_people_got_to_capitalize_on_what_waas_a_core_mechanic_for_so_long.I_do_not_mind_the_removal_of_dailyscape_ideas._I_just_hope_that_there_are_alternatives_introduced_for_fun_experience_gain_that_isn't_stand_around_and_grind_the_skill_non-stop_for_weeks_on_end.Also_-_what_about_those_of_us_who_spent_loyalty_points_on_aura's_

[winged rivet]

Did they address anything related to the farming feedback or did it go unnoticed?

[lean star]

"started in 2005..."

then goes on to talk or request stuff that totally isn't runescape?

Do we play the same game?

Even with dailyscape you still grind a skill non-stop for weeks on end in some cases. And if not a skill then for something in the completionist log or a boss collection log/pets whatever.

But also.... it is completely optional to go max an account, get 99, 120s or even 200m (what you talk about). You aren't forced to go do, to get a trimmed comp req cape, if you don't have the time for it. It is completely optional and more a thing for the players that basically have nothing else left to do... .

[lean star]

You'll still make some progress every time you play a little bit. With or without dailyscapes. And likely a more enjoyable spending of your time too while we're at it.

For some individual skills like agility (if that's where the complaint is directed towards) -> join the club.

We still have a reveal or debate/discussion for mid game and end game balance updates incoming later this year, and the feedback will be very much needed.

[wary lake]

I'm just saying I enjoy the alternative fun events that take place that give you bonus exp outside of just grinding

[lean star]

could still do the penguins every week

[wary lake]

Well thats a feature of the game I'll haave to familiarize myself with then 🙂

[lean star]

I recommend doing so, they're pretty fun to do.

[dense gorge]

I mean he's not wrong, TH and daily challenges in particular were completely overpowered, and the single main reason a lot of people achieved things like max and 120s. Saw a post on reddit that tried to estimate the nerf of not having these and it was something like 30%-70% of your total xp earned per day depending on how much you played per day. That is a ridiculous nerf for people that are still chasing these goals, and imo does justify a significant raise in xp/hr especially for slower skills. We'll see what they come up with in the late game balance, but seeing the changes so far I somewhat doubt it will be a buff, nvm a strong enough one to compensate.

[lean star]

That isn't exactly a good thing tho

therefore "road to restoration"

what some people exactly want is what has drove people away in the past

and why osrs has 10x times more players then rs3

i suppose the survivorship bias will now want this system

but it isn't how you'll get players back

only very few want to play a game that is a dailyslog, in particular ironically for the same reason the people do not want to see the grinds for maxing an account/200M and lvl 120. Because they too have a life and have no interest to log in every day to complete a slog of a checklist. If you have limited you want to do something fun and we have very different ideas of that then, i do not associate it with a checklist of 1hr of chores before actually being able to start the game or i think so because in 20 mins i have to show up for a wildy flash event.

[dense gorge]

I'm not advocating for dailyslog, I do think better xp/hr across the better would be good for the game though. That and faster entry into active, somewhat challenging pvm. And better/more interesting mid-game gearing. Just faster prog for new players into the fun stuff basically.

[lean star]

with that agree

like i personally think thieving is well balanced and fun now (i suppose there's something to say about afk pickpocketing, i like it myself but i get the argument that it is too OP), but like for xp/h thieving is i think the way to go as an example.

And we must really acknowledge what skills are awful/active to level and do something about these which are agility & dungeoneering (i suppose dungeoneering isn't that awful, it should be fast though)

And the prayer came out of nowhere, but i suppose linking it to a wildy diary is fine.

[dense gorge]

maybe weird, but cooking is the bane of my existance for some reason. I really cba with it at all.

[clever halo]

There's not really good alterative training methods. It's all slow. Even Proteans are slow for it.

It was both my last 120 and 200m.

I guess there's wine, but that's kinda intensive.

[burnt locust]

Was there a change to dungeoneering?

[clever halo]

Just killing Sinkholes, but they were already pretty dead.

[rapid cobalt]

Do we have an invention machine for that? Raw food + logs in, cooked food out? Half joking but if we can automate putting herbs into vials, surely we can put sharks on the grill. 😂

[lean star]

i actually don't think it's weird

fishing and especially cooking are 2 skills that very much need an update or something exciting going on for them. I don't think people are like "fix this skill", because it's literally cooking. It's straightforward, but as a skill it undercooks. No pun intended.

[idle osprey]

Most people nowadays use the bait and switch relic to cook things as they catch while fishing

[lean star]

It is the most useless skill, more useless than divination, fishing, woodcutting or any other skill.

No important quests that need it, beyond lvl 50. No purpose in PvM since cooking actively harms your DPS other than the jellyfish.

And the bait and switch relic actively removes the need for cooking as well.

Cooking could be so much more than it currently is in the game.

[idle osprey]

I do hope they do things like recipies with 120 cooking. And a full overhaul

[lean star]

It flew a bit under the radar i guess, also because 10 years ago this was one of the easier/faster/low effort 99s, but cooking hasn't had much of a change since then.

it's basically the same as it was 10-15 yrs ago.

Chef's Assistant & Cheesecake i suppose in 2019, before that the bacon in 2013. I may have forgotten something, but these were related to quest and didn't impact the meta for the grind.

[idle osprey]

Only other one is deep sea fishing with blubbers and sailfish

[lean star]

true it's more a fishing update but cooking indirectly got affected by that

just like BGH and dinosaur meat also indirectly affects cooking

[idle osprey]

Primal feasts are nice but they're so expensive

[rapid cobalt]

The other thing is the (arguably) best way to train fishing (fishing frenzy) doesn't actually give you any fish. It's just pure exp and so doing the best fishing nets no food for cooking.
More non-fish meals would be cool, like:
- what if BGH dinosaur meat was top tier food? Pavo meat which is a pain to get heals less than a rockrail.
- Or the 2 arc soups that take a whole process to make was useful food (I know it's pretty good but given the process, ez to catch fish beating it makes turning it into currency way better)
- Or the brewing stuff with The Stuff (I miss you, Trouble Brewing) giving useful effects or something. (m) ales were good way back when but fell off with other boosts being better.

[woven fiber]

Will be consideration for Dungeoneering Rates?

[stark adder]

Don't forget POP's sailfish soups and The Arc gumbo soup. I like citadel cooking also, but whatever you're cooking, urns & enhancer a must.

[tropic hamlet]

Low key excited to see good hard food making a comeback

It'll help so much for shit like vorky

[lethal meadow]

Will be interesting to see if it actually helps or just causes people to rely more on food instead of getting good

[lean star]

it is more forgiving for beginners or learning a boss

but eventually the meta will remain jellyfish

because even 3% reduction for adrenaline still means you want jellyfish instead because DPS is waht matters

(i could see maybe some bosses where you have to tank a hit or something perhaps see the food a bigger role, but we will have to see)

[tropic hamlet]

Having food be viable actually just makes vorky not shit to do without being a giga sweat

because you can just combo eat after zemouregal hits you without losing all your dps

[green lynx]

(And here's me still sticking to oldschool food during combat 🤔. Then again, I'm terrible at bossing)

[lean star]

jujst a matter of practice and trial and error from my impression

food can be good to learn a fight

[green lynx]

I already dread Seren fight in Extinction as I am very close to it...

[tropic hamlet]

The game is in a state where your DPS directly converts to sustain via soul split, so any drop in DPS doubly punishes your survivability

[lean star]

seren fight is not that hard i could do it, just a very annoying latest phase that has little to do with boss fight mechanics but just tanking hits

[tropic hamlet]

this is why Rasial is either a 1 minute snoozefest or you're 2:30 in and getting completely fisted

[green lynx]

Considering my Sliske attempts went well into 20s numbers

[lethal meadow]

Don't worry. you're not really fighting there. It's just running around stayign alive

[lean star]

dying isn't really punishing in rs3

don't be afraid of trial and error really

you can bank after each phase and maybe use trials set vs seren if you're really worried

[tropic hamlet]

the 1.5m deaths do add up pretty fast

[lean star]

but sliske's endgame was far harder than extinction

though extinction should not be underestimated, you can mess up the last phase

[green lynx]

I know. It just get tedious when attempts begin taking double digit numbers.

[green lynx]

Okay, that's good to hear.

[lean star]

i lose 10k gp for dying lol

maybe i have budget gear

[green lynx]

I lost my quest cape in 2016 with release of Nomad's Elegy

[lean star]

i can't remember that quest being hard honestly

i was scared of the quest

but i didn't have an issue with that quest

[green lynx]

But I'm now firmly sticking to storyline order so after I wrap EGWD, I have whole bunch of quests left.

[lean star]

theres a deathtouched dart maybe that works if you want it to be over with although its a waste of that dart probably

for extinction good food is good

[green lynx]

I seriously struggled with boss fight at first, especially phase 3 whrn he creates a clone. I kept attacking the wrong one. I did resolve it eventually with beast of burden familiar

[lean star]

because you don't need adrenaline in phase 3 really

after phase 2 leave

have inventory focused on healing and tanking hits

[green lynx]

So I had enough food even if I attacked the clone

[green lynx]

Nah, I prefer not using these

Especially in quests

[lean star]

just have an inventory of your best food or whatever helps in healing like maybe expensive spices too

[green lynx]

Ok. Thanks for advice.

[lean star]

for city of senntisten there was also a similar mechanic where you had to run away and one of those trips was pretty long and the dumbass in me started picking up the orbs i placed on the way too so making it even longer, i was taking 6k hits at the end 💀 but i got there in time

[green lynx]

Got to the part of banishing Her-who-shall-not-be-named to thr place-that-shall-not-be-named so boss fight is close.

Yesterday

[quaint helm]

Got to say, I'm not too stoked on the idea they have for pickpocketing. While I get it, I've never been a huge fan of the method of pickpocketing in priff which is tantamount to what they are doing essentially. While also removing the uniqueness of priff pickpocketing. I think it's okay, up to a point, but especially at 115+ thieving, you're a pro at it and it should be extremely hard to get caught. But making it so you ARE eventually going to get caught does not feel like the right move to me.

Their response on the AFK aspect does not seem promising. You have active methods through heists that give good rates/gp. And this feels like a huge nerf.

[lean star]

and i'm actively handicapped by only having surge and escape. I don't have dive/bladed dive or double surge

[green lynx]

I'm so stubborn on quest timeline I didn't even touch Fort yet

Necromancy quests are the only ones I do alongside skill, ignoring their placement in timeline

[real trail]

Sounds too easy

Hack n slash kinda vibes

[winged rivet]

So did they just abandon interacting with this chat?

[lethal meadow]

Feedback gets gathered. But they don't reply to everything we say

ANd yeha you're more likely to get a reaction from a jmod on reddit 🙁

[winged rivet]

I noticed they completely ignored all farming feedback and im gonna be honest, it feels like there are too many projects going on at once because lots of the changes now feel rushed with a single goal in mind and no real thought at the bigger picture ideas as many people have stated.

[ornate widget]

They probably saw it even if they didn’t respond

But just because they saw it doesn’t mean they will do it either

[winged rivet]

Right. I mean its very clear that they have an objective but I think that putting everything out in stages is going to cause players to leave because they cant understand where the destination is suppose to end up for all the changes.

It would almost be better to just delay the major changes and release them together.

[hot comet]

...then they leave

and maybe they come back once the changes are done

[brittle plaza]

What farming feedback is being ignored

[winged rivet]

Which would not be good, understanding how badly that impacts a company to have players leave is why we are here in the first place.

[winged rivet]

The massive punishing to player owned farming they plan to release that causes a functional break for beehives.

[lethal meadow]

Sounds like fake news to me

[winged rivet]

Are you being constructive or an asshole, I cant tell.

[brittle plaza]

I mean I thought the beehive change seemed justified

it was incredibly strong early on

[winged rivet]

The reason was justified. The way they plan to fix it isnt.

[hot comet]

wasn't that literally one guy complaining about having to decide between xp rates or useful honeycombs?

(aka, EVERY FARMING DECISION IN THE GAME)

[brittle plaza]

the xp chart makes sense on how you obtain the flowers

lower level flowers = less xp

[winged rivet]

It makes sense for every person who doesnt do farming

Clearly you.

[lethal meadow]

Rebalancing the xp was needed. It was like 15 levels for 10 minutes of work jsut filling them once and coming back a day later

[brittle plaza]

What a weird accusation

[winged rivet]

100% it needs fixed

Thats not my issue

My issue is how it is fixed

[brittle plaza]

Its fine if you do lower level flowers and lower xp specifically for a type of honey comb

[winged rivet]

No that isn't. Because that essentially breaks the whole point of why we are rebapancing

[brittle plaza]

best xp don't also have to give best honeycomb output

[winged rivet]

To ensure we dont continue to have non organic systems

[lethal meadow]

In that case i don't seem to understand exactly what you think the problem is with the changes they made

[brittle plaza]

Honestly yeah I don't get it either. Is it specifically that some of the higher level honeycombs aren't particularily useful?

Because I don't really see any other angle of issues here

[winged rivet]

I'm more than happy to explain what I mean

POF farming isn't something everyone does and beehives were horribly balanced

However many players who dont do POF farming dont realize 75 to 80% of POF farming systems were deprecated and never finished

The honey comb rebalancing says for you to ensure you get the only working honeycombs you needs to reduce your rates by 1100%

Let me reclarify that

the ONLY WORKING honeycombs

[hot comet]

and?

[winged rivet]

the rest do not do anything

[brittle plaza]

I'm fine with a tradeoff between xp and item resources

[winged rivet]

of course you are because again, you do not do POF farming like that community does

it doesn't effect the average player who isn't working on farming

[brittle plaza]

Why in the world do you think I don't know POF

[hot comet]

if you want a giant pile of toadflax or dwarf weed or lantadyne or any number of other herbs

you are ALSO dropping your potential XP rates a lot

[winged rivet]

Because you act like you don't @brittle plaza Or this system issue wouldn't be so foriegn

[hot comet]

if instead you could be doing Fellstalk or similar

[brittle plaza]

No I don't remotely act like I don't

[hot comet]

farming trades off resources vs xp all the time

[brittle plaza]

I just don't think what you present as an issue is an issue

I know how honeycombs work

[hot comet]

(see, how Trees work)

[brittle plaza]

I know how beehives work

[winged rivet]

This would make sense except you dont need herbs, thats your choice. you need combs for farming

[hot comet]

no you don't

you flatly do not

[winged rivet]

Yes you do

[brittle plaza]

I have gotten breeding log on one account and almost on another

I've done every aspect of pof a lot

[winged rivet]

Early game farming almost requires combs to make your farming experience feel fluid

[hot comet]

delicious, healthy, moresome combs are methods of extra optimization

[brittle plaza]

I don't see the issue with the most useful honeycombs being lower xp and earlier available

[hot comet]

they are not even vaguely required for literally anything

[winged rivet]

See you keep saying most useful

Which indicates you have no idea what they do

because there are only 3 that work at all

[brittle plaza]

I say that because 3 of them are borderline useless

speed is useless

[winged rivet]

No they are useless completely

[brittle plaza]

weight is useles

[winged rivet]

they do nothing

[lethal meadow]

I have no idea what each of the honeycombs do. Because i've never had a reason to learn what they do I'll admit that much

[winged rivet]

The honeycombs were intended to effect POF animal traits

[brittle plaza]

I don't "indicate" because dense honeycomb, for example, is used in a quest

[winged rivet]

and then abandoned by jag later

[brittle plaza]

so it does in fact have at least one use

[winged rivet]

Which in that case I couldn't care if I'm making honeycombs for 1 single quests, who cares right

but if I'm using them for anacronia and POF

I need extras and i shouldn't be punished for farming correctly

[brittle plaza]

I'm fine with them adding some use to those honeycombs, but I also don't really care much if they don't

[winged rivet]

me either

but there needs to be 1 of two different fixes to address it properly

either we remove the dead combs and add quantity based off flowers

or a trade in vendor

so if I decide to properly farm at my level

I'm not punished for it

My arguement is not that beehives are not broken, they 100% are

[brittle plaza]

I don't agree with the line of thinking that you're only ever meant to engage with the top level option

[winged rivet]

You dont agree that progression of skills should be at level content?

[brittle plaza]

I think its fine if you're doing lower level honeycombs for specifically the output

I don't think you should only operate within the tier of your level yes

that sometimes you engage with things outside that level band

[winged rivet]

You realize thats the same unhealthy logic that makes you fish the same fish for 70 levels and skip 10 other fish right?

Our goal was to fix unsynced systems, and beehives are synced, punishing you for using content properly should not be a thing.

The same reason whirglings are being nerfed

which they need to be 100%

but there is a reason why people used them and thats the other systems were unhealthy

[brittle plaza]

I'm not harmed by elder rune requiring rune bars even though rune bars isn't at level 90 range for smithing

[winged rivet]

I want you to consider something else

This is a comparsion of logic for you about farming

If I'm a new player and I'm using hives to get combs, lets says I have no idea what they do. I level up. I get to make new combs.

Imagine im new and I make a bunch of the new comb going "well its a higher level so it should be useful"

then I find out I have dead items in my bank that are useless

[brittle plaza]

If you want a farming comparison:

• there are plenty of reasons to farm different herbs
• different animals have different output, there are reasons to farm yak even though dragons exist

[winged rivet]

Your again minimizing the impact rather than considering the effect it has on the fluid leveling system of farming

New players dont care about dragons

They care about knowing what they are doing means something

[brittle plaza]

Everything outlined by jagex in the farming change is sound.

The argument that ok, we should redo the useless honeycombs, but thats true for a lot of things in this game

I don't think this is a critical aspect to address right now

If every other part of the beehive update makes sense, this feels very low on priority list

And I don't want them to postpone this change

[winged rivet]

So what your saying is, we are going to make changes to a system but your feedback is low priority because it addresses a function of that system we dont care to address because i dont want a delay.

[brittle plaza]

As is, this change just means "these specific honeycombs are those I'll make for the sake of xp"

[winged rivet]

that is the TLDR you just wrote.

[brittle plaza]

Kinda because its fine if some of the honeycombs are primarily a thing for xp

Thats not an issue

[winged rivet]

that in its self is what you fail to understand

beehives are not a main source of EXP for farming, it is the only exp for farming for players who dont farm

[brittle plaza]

I think I understand you perfectly, I just dont agree

[winged rivet]

because its easy and a once a day chore.

for regular farming beehives are a tool, not an EXP farm

They still should not be punishing anyone for using them properly.

[brittle plaza]

Yeah. So treat it as that, and do the honeycombs that are tools

And let the other parts of the farming system be the prime part of xp

I mean, it would be fine if honeycombs existed primarily as bonus tools that barely gave xp at all

[winged rivet]

why would I want to spend the time doing the combs we normally need when they now provide 6 EXP a piece? when I could get functionally less useful onces and make 130 EXP a piece?

[brittle plaza]

That you specifically only did to get honeycombs

[brittle plaza]

For the functionality of the honeycombs

[winged rivet]

That idea is against the whole reason we are doing this overhaul in the first place

you are saying choose usefulness or progression

[lethal meadow]

Yes

[winged rivet]

they should be the same

[brittle plaza]

This is a bit like asking "why would I farm ranarr when I could farm torstol"

Because you want ranarr for potions

[winged rivet]

That is not a relevant comparison because herbs are not directly for farming

[brittle plaza]

No they shouldn't. Different things should have tradeoffs, and its fine to have systems you do primarily for functionality without being best xp

[winged rivet]

Combs are 100%

[brittle plaza]

Ah we're going in circles anyways

[lethal meadow]

It's exactly the same thing. You choose between something you need or more farming xp

[winged rivet]

I think you fail to understand this a principle arguement not a logistical one.

[brittle plaza]

Logical

I understand your principle I just disagree with it

[winged rivet]

The principle of this arguement is why are we reworking skills? so they feel more fluid and reward proper progression

We should not feel the need to shortcut the system or not be tied to the intended point of it

this is a tie to the intended point of it conversation.

[teal kiln]

why are you so focused on combs anyways, its not gonna ruin the whole of pof

[winged rivet]

I'm not interacting with you because 100% of the things I've seen come from you start fights. the rest of these guys are having a normal conversation I tend to continue

[teal kiln]

its a easy fix anyways

[brittle plaza]

Its specifically dense, runny and sweet that have little use

the other honeycombs seem fine

candied and nutritious dont have that much use but eh

[winged rivet]

In reality unless you are sweating hard, the only two that matter are marigolds and woad leaf, so delicious and medicinal.

Thats if we strictly talk about average player farming interactions.

[teal kiln]

isnt that alr the case

[winged rivet]

The rest are something that should be added to a vendor or trade ect

because most of them are like .5% or 1% chance increase that 99% of farmers wont use or waste time on

Also i feel like I need to make the point clear again that whe nwe say little use

there are combs that have zero use.

Rosemary/Dense Nasturtium/Runny Snape Grass / Sweet

They dont have little, they have none at all.

Those systems were deprecated and never finished

There were a few specific achievements related to combs

Regardless, If player feedback matters, then it should matter than all changes we make have a meaningful impact on the integrity of the system and also follow the goal of why we are doing it.

and if something isn't hitting that mark, we shouldn't just be quiet about it.

I want those beehives changed. but I do not want players to feel punished for farming correctly.

[brittle plaza]

And the most important ones im fine with being the first player has access to

The one you'd need most in bulk

[winged rivet]

Absolutely

which is medicinal

granted technically you need both to gain the clearest benefit which isn't directly spelled out

[brittle plaza]

I'll be real I don't find that I had much use for either honeycomb

[winged rivet]

Which ones?

[brittle plaza]

and what I did with woad honey gave me a bunch of honeycombs I never used

[hot comet]

I have no use for literally any honeycomb

the ones with a theoretical use

[brittle plaza]

You'd think at some point in getting breeding logs I'd go "i need honeycombs" and it just barely materialised

[hot comet]

are too marginal to bother with for me

[brittle plaza]

99% of the time I didn't need any

[winged rivet]

Thats normally because people don't know that the happiness and health levels of animals impact the overall resource produced.

[brittle plaza]

Oh I know

[winged rivet]

Its pretty signifiant once you see how bad it becomes.

[brittle plaza]

Its just that they naturally reached 100% by the time I checked

[hot comet]

I just leave them in for longer if I need to

which I don't

because I'm visiting once occasionally twice a day

[brittle plaza]

So it didn't matter

[weary kelp]

You mean the happiness and health that goes to 100% by the time the animal reaches adol for most animals?

[winged rivet]

That is also not true.

That entirely depends on the animals you raise

[hot comet]

and when I was visiting more frequently

what I cared about was the beans price

which gives 0 care about any of that lol

[brittle plaza]

but lower lvel animals would align with doing lower level honeycombs

Earlier in your journey

[winged rivet]

100% its pefect in that case, (outside the requirement for delicious) which isn't correctly explains to new players

essentially you need both at 100% to get full produce even though it says you dont

I've tested this on many creatures and also keep in mind

if a animal goes through a phase with lower health and happiness, it snapshots the produce

so properly progressing farming provides benefits to counteract that issue, but also specifically scoping on beehives, the functionality for a player who has no idea about any of this is going to be frustrated to feel like they progressed farming

unlocked a new feature "new comb" and find out its entirely useless.

it needs to jsut be dropped and replaced with one of those two combs.

let the flowers dictate the amount or whatever

[hot comet]

you know

[winged rivet]

but there is no reason that system for progression makes sense to progress through uselless combs.

[hot comet]

not a terrible idea... probably...

you ever tried to sell/buy honeycombs though?

[winged rivet]

In what way. you mean through grand exchange?

I look at most systems through the eyes of an Ironman as those systems were intended to bounce like that off each other.

If you think about it. Melee and smithing for example

They are in my mind, perfectly synced. you reach 60, you unlock 60 ect

you never downgrade for progression.

All systems should be goal oriented to be like that

50 farming should allow growing level 50 herbs for level 50 potions in herb

I should not for example need 92 fletching for a ranger bow

[weary kelp]

By most i mean most animals used consistently at higher levels - chins/zygos/dragons for pof, salamanders and any dino for root. Takes roughly 12 h to reach 100% and out of the commonly raised animals, only chins are less than 12 to reach adol (at roughly 8h)

[winged rivet]

for a level 60

[winged rivet]

rightly so for 100% end game it becomes a moot point, but because this is early game rebalance I feel like its relevant for this and mid game

I wouldn't care about this conversation end game rebalance.

[hot comet]

in early game you don't CARE about the produce... like at all?

[winged rivet]

Yes you do

many things you need are for other skills and quests

[hot comet]

you'll get hilarious amounts of feathers and cow hide you won't actually bother to use anyway

[weary kelp]

In large quantities though?

[hot comet]

MAYBE sheep wool you'll care about?

(specifically the seasonals)

[weary kelp]

And you can simply wait to elder for a bunch of those animals before collecting as well

[winged rivet]

Well dont get me started about how 15 feathers per chicken harvest is the dumbest thing I've never seen but smh, another day

Keep in mind, again you have to see it from the POV of being new

[weary kelp]

I think the system needs a rework more than honeycombs if anything

[winged rivet]

you cannot apply the thought process of playing for thousands of hours

[hot comet]

even as a nublet

[winged rivet]

When you are brand new doing a skill, how do you make money?

[hot comet]

if I need feathers, I can kill chickens, I can visit a fishing shop etc

[winged rivet]

Yep

but you can't do that for colored wool. or strawberrry milk

[hot comet]

pof chickens are to get XP and beans so I can get to the interesting animals

[winged rivet]

or chocolate milk

ect

[hot comet]

...yes you can

every cow milk you can actually just make by taking the flavoring and sticking it in a normal milk bucket

last I was looking into it(for cheesecakes)

[winged rivet]

I'm going to concede because I dont know on that end

[hot comet]

(I wound up at the conclusion that cheesecakes sucked despite looking interesting)

(was very sad about it)

[winged rivet]

Regardless I want systems to flow together, not have rusty joints

and someone who levels farming should be able to move up to a new flower and feel rewarded

I imagine we dont disagree that leveling up should always be rewarding in terms of progression

so if something is a reward for that system and it isn't rewarding, it shouldn't be there.

[hot comet]

ok well now the problem there is

well

Divination, Summoning, Agility

[winged rivet]

which are by far the worst skills to level (excluding charming imp summoning) which is also not an intended point of it

in my opinion those are all extremely unhealthy

Summoning has an awesome concept but I imagine most people do not manually level it up because of how it feels, they focus on charming later on and early they probably dont touch it until they know enough to figure it out

[hot comet]

I manually leveled it a lot

there's a couple useful things at low levels

[winged rivet]

Divination is just foul in general because there is no clear reward to most players, even as someone who players for many years diviniation is one I only level for prif and invention

[hot comet]

particularly the skilling supporters and Spirit Terrorbirds(every earlier BoB is too little space for the price of the secondary)

[lethal meadow]

With manually levelling you mean just making pouches? I'd imagune thats how most level summoning

[hot comet]

but most of the skill is some version of "too much effort for not enough reward"

[winged rivet]

I assume most people use charming imp later for summoning

I could be wrong but abyss farming for summoning farming is how I've always seen everyone do it

[lethal meadow]

To pick up charms sure. But not for the xp from destroying

[winged rivet]

Oh well I never manually did summoning because the space required to do it properly felt as unhealthy as making runes for runecrafting

atleast necro kinda make their runes more logical where 1 could turn into alot more to stop you from running more than practicing the skill

Also I think ever person I've met hates agility

even the changes to agility I doubt will be enough tbh

agility to me is the bane of every runescape players nightmares to level because its just so tedious

[lethal meadow]

Agility needs a reason to train mkre then it needs more xp

[winged rivet]

Exactly

[lethal meadow]

But in the end both wouldn't hurt

[hot comet]

agility needs training that isn't just barely tolerable if you get into a proper half thought state

[winged rivet]

you know what would be a cool idea

intergrate agility into a cop chase mechanism for theiving where you gained a GTA star system and if you got away you got a bonus and rewards.

gnome terrorbird cops chase you ect

[lethal meadow]

Nty

[winged rivet]

the rewards would increase your player run speed

or reduce CDs ect

anyways my point with farming is that any skill getting changes that has easily avoidable friction feels dumb and needs to be adjusted to remove it. new players dont need to spend 10 hours understanding systems for pof that dont exist anymore. just remove the bloat, add a trade vendor and we're done

no new work ect.

[autumn gust]

I've suggested they add stretches and more content like the serenity posts that has players afk agility and then switching to different stances/stretches for xp

Like there could be different Agility/stretching masters throughout the game. They could be located in various areas. Like the Ninja Tortle spot in Varrock sewers could be one. There could also be spots in existing agility courses, giving players the option to quickly switch from active and afk ability training

[lean star]

exactly

i think for a new or returning player summoning, divination & invention are the hardest skills to learn

although for divination it may be "why does this skill exist" type of thing

[winged rivet]

divination looks cool but honestly outside of that the skill is basically confusing with pretty colors ngl

[lean star]

it's a fifth age skill centered around "memories", it isn't as straightforward as something like cooking, mining & woodcutting. You understand cooking, you know what cookng is

i think the divination tutorial is a bit lackluster

archaeology & necromancy helps the player a lot more helping to understand what these skills are and have more railroaded progression

for other skills progression is just straightfroward to understan dlike mining, you do bronze then do iron then steel then mithril, that's easy to understand

[green lynx]

And they plan to remove divine locations which are big part of divination...

[lean star]

divination also has that with the wisps i guess but its just nobody did the wisps because caches

& summoning just lacks that a bit

[lean star]

rework needed and they can make transmute better

i considered transmuting some stuff but its just never worth it

i want charms, but transmuting charms is just painful

like why would you do this

150 brilliant energy and 2 crimson charms to get 1 blue charm yea lol, that just is never worth it

it could've a use for ironman if it wasn't this punishing

so either the amount of energies needed needs to be nerfed
the amount of energies increased gathered
or the amount of crimson charms you can transmute at once (like say 20 crimson charms instead of 2)

one of the three or a combination of

when i need thousands and thousands of bluie charms, i would need 1 million brilliant energy basically

just better to acquire the blue charms from slayer or croessus something alwyas ofc

and none of the transmute options seems worth it except for maybe the onyx dust into the onyx

[green lynx]

I know I had to nearly fully rely on spirit gems with summoning to not run out of charms

In order to get it to 99

[lean star]

divines could be better if they didn't award xp and were resource focused instead

with no caps

[lean star]

itshard to use a calculator for spirit gems since theres a bit of RNG with them

i think for me the gp for spirit shards is also a huge problem

but i mean that's fine, it's fast, but it's expensive, it's a fair way of levelling it, it's kinda like prayer.

there are like 3 skills i have to spend gp on and thats invention, summ & pray

as ironman

[green lynx]

Removal of divine locations was just some weird hasty decision in my eyes as they are part of the skill itself. It was one of the several things on Friday that I was like "Huh?!"

[lean star]

with travelling merchant one sink for gp disappears for me

although wildy flash events being removed also means less gp for me

but with thieving/heists not really a big issue for me

and slayer/bossing the other reliable steady income of gp for ironman

[winged rivet]

kinda my point of too many projects and biting off more than they could chew. hence why they stopped talking here ect.

[lean star]

a rework or repurpose of them i could've accepted

the problem why divine locations were removed is basically stuff like "divine yew trees"

and there were equivalents for fish & hunter too

the problem was xp and cap although you can have infinite resources if it there was no cap and it was resource based

Maybe a weekly cap makes more sense and dramatically reduced/nerfed xp

[green lynx]

Exactly. I'll keep repeating that I don't like their "Remove all X problematic stuff as soon as possible" approach instead of "Improve Y stuff so people won't have to rely on problematic X stuff".

And I'm certainly vocal that I feel very misled regarding "making skills more enjoyable to train" during their TH removal campaign.

[lean star]

the mid and end game balance updates are for later this year, was always part of the roadmap

it's just some of their early game changes affect late game players in negative way

[green lynx]

Then they are doing something wrong in my eyes. Taking away but not giving anything in return.

[lean star]

what they did give was irrelavent for late game players

they talked about agility, hunter & div buffs and early game thieving

[hot comet]

you remove the bandaid so you can figure out if the wound underneath is sucking or a scratch or something in between

[lean star]

without being specific for hunter & div

[hot comet]

yes?

this is the early game section

the mid and late sections are later

[lean star]

that's what i'm tyrying to say

i'm pretty sure they prioritized the whirligigs also with the 110 hunter upcoming update

they don't want ppl to get 110 hunter without interacting with havenhythe

same for chaos altar nerf with 120 construction update later

[green lynx]

So why are they making it harder for mid/high game players if they don't have solutions yet?

[lean star]

havenhythe...

may have some solutions

red ivy, giant crayfish for instance

those are solutions they might already be aware of, but the playerbase isn't yet.

[teal kiln]

i mean whirlwigs at high levels are like 1.5m xp a hour lol

so it will still be quite strong after nerf

and other than that theres not much nerfs

[lean star]

for ironman it's more than a 60% nerf though

although we probably should be doing BGH anyways once we unlock it

[teal kiln]

so 700k xp

not bad

[lean star]

more because you can cheese it so you don't need flowers now

[teal kiln]

ah

[lean star]

besides i never got those xp/h rates, idk how ppl got these

i got 475k xp/h with hasty whirligigs

wiki told me 700k xp/h and i have the upgrades (even use aura)

and urns

[teal kiln]

the 1.5m is speedy i think

maybe the wiki guys are just sweaty asf

[lean star]

i know its double that of hasty

but i think it's an enormous overestimation

i would get 1m out of it instead

if its double that of hasties

[lean star]

most likely

their xp.h rates are so often wrong

and not always more than i should have, for hets oasis i get more than wiki says on agility course

same for runespan lol

but safecracking and whirligigs is much lower than what wiki tells me

the heists was correct (1m xp/h). tbh for that based on skill and the 102 safes some variation would be expected, but it was spot on for me

thats why for BGH i get much less xp/h because that can be explained by skill, it's a dynamic way of skilling

but whirligigs i mean that's a click simulator.

and i feel i already sweat over them

that said i hope BGH gets a bit of a buff for xp/h

its an active method of hunter levelling

if they want to nerf whirligigs or make whirligigs less rewarding then BGH they could buff BGH too

wouldn't be able to cheese the 1-75 lvls anyways as you unlock bgh at lvl 75 only

i see whirligigs more as a safecracking equivalent and bgh as a heist equivalent

and hunter in general lacks an afk skilling method, so no pickpocketing equivalent

(i know safecracking is way less click intensive tho than whirligigs)

[hot comet]

Whirligigs is more like stalls or old pickpocketing isn't?

(click click click click click click click)

[lean star]

yea

all hunter other than bgh basically is

[autumn gust]

No more spam clicking fests like whirligigs and fishing frenzy plz. More Bgh and heists plz

[green lynx]

BGH made me not despise hunter anymore on my main

[ornate widget]

If I ever train it again I suppose I could do that

[azure patio]

BGH is amazing fun lol

[inner flame]

I'll miss whirligigs but early game hunter needs love for sure. I'd also say add some small hunter distractions where its similar to necro rituals getting disturbances. You can some hunter disturbances and it can give you more supplies, exp or some random cosmetic. Something that just makes the experience more fun but the original methods for hunter also need exp numbers to be tweaked.

[wraith terrace]

I am disappointed that this newsletter was how I learned whirligigs were allegedly an OP option for training. Depending on what level I was when they were implemented, it probably would've saved me some time

[lean star]

for some reason it's not as well known as you'd think

thats also because the exploit is a bit hard to explain

and the skilling guide used to bee xtremely outdated for a long time before acknowledging that whirlygigs were so good

i noticed it used to be tropical wagtails or black salamanders in the gide, alternatively "whirligigs"

but like.... whirligigs is like literlaly 4-5x faster than those 2

it went under the radar for quite some time

a lot of guides would also be like "from lvl 75 on do BGH"

but if you wanted the xp, whirligigs were far better than BGH.

i think croessus was also in the guide before that was nerfed

[wraith terrace]

I did only find out you could stack them sometime in 2025, too

[lean star]

although apparently its still good

[wraith terrace]

So my use of it was EVEN slower

[lean star]

i needed to look up a youtube video for that

shadowlin used to have a video about that but its deleted and they're no longer a youtuber

i didn't understand it at first how to stack

or at least how to make sure the flowers didn't deplete

[inner flame]

Whirligigs are pretty awesome but they are very heavy on the wrist but theres tech for that too which people abused during leagues.

[lean star]

gullible tourist with aura at lower levels or just at higher levels is worse for my fingers/wrists

i hate that it is such an early moneymaker for an ironman account

(tbf though auras being removed will make it no longer viable)

although the base 75% pickpocket chance makes it still worthwile to do it because thats much higher than before without aura

(i wouldn't be surprised if gt will be the meta with these changes)

(honestly the xp rates should be nerfed OR and maybe better gt should have a level requirement)

because with aura its ridicilous how fast you skip the levels

its like 1h to get to lvl 49, so it's 90-100k xp/h and you need 330K xp to unlock safecracking so its basically 3.5 hours

That's with 100% success (the auras)

without auras, you'll have 75% progress (maybe slightly less because you have to factor in stun times), so it should be 67.5k xp/h at level 1

so 5 hours for 330k xp

(which is an improvement over gt without aura now, because of the much higher fail chance)

it's probably slightly slower because of stun times

but probably fast at early levels for progression because there is no level requirement other than the quest jack of spades

liek clicking once will give you multiple lvls at once at lvl 1

it might depend on how much of a penalty you get from pickpocketing gullible tourist?

but she gives 29.5 xp per pickpocket. Master farmer gives 43 xp so if master farmer doesn't give you a penalty because of his requirement level, it might be that master farmer is meta once you're his level and that you have to progress. Or if the stuns are too painful stalls & chests.

the earliest pickpocketing target that gives mroe xp than gullible tourist is cave goblin at lvl 36

why does H.A.M. member give more xp for a pickpocket than rogue despite lower level requirement?

[hot comet]

rogue from rogue's castle?

[lean star]

yes

[hot comet]

probably because that was the first afk pickpocketing place ever added

you auto pickpocketed on rogues before anything else

so the XP was deeeeeeeply terrible

and they probably just never actually looked at them again

[lean star]

shouldn't try they balance these pickpocketing targets out? Update loot and add a level requirement for gullible tourist?

[hot comet]

pretty sure gullible tourist is for a specific quest

[lean star]

yes jack of spades

to unlock menaphos

[hot comet]

mmmmm

[lean star]

you can do that with lvl 1 thieving

[hot comet]

ok

probably better to just nerf the XP then

[lean star]

stolen hearts & diamonds in the rough both give a 250 k thieving lamp though so in practice you'll have 500 xp if you beeline menaphos

and jack of spades another 500

so 1000 xp

[lean star]

on the cgim the meta wasn't the doors because of the aura, the meta was gt until lvl 62

because if you use aura, she couldn't stun you

[hot comet]

yeh ok

prolly just better to nerf the xp

[lean star]

very painful for the fingers but at leats no hopping worlds to do the thieves guilds doors lol

[hot comet]

a lvl 1 thing shouldn't be meta until 62 lol

[lean star]

it probably rivalled the latter or was close in xp/h rate but gt gave you early gp and chance for an early onyx. Doors wouldn't give you anything other than maybe pilfer points if you bothered to open chests which most ppl don't

[lean star]

💯

[lean star]

that's why i think that gullible tourist shouldn't ahve some unique thing that makes it less likely for her to stun you over other NPCs you can pickpocket. Like there should be no reason to choose to pikcpocket gt over master farmer

although maybe it is, but it is just the loot that makes gt so worth it.

And gts loot is kinda broken, thieving in general as a skill for ironman is just too important, most reliable moneymaker that doesn't involve combat or wildy events

i didn't test on other pickpcoketing targets with aura at such a lower level, whether you can fail to pickpocket someone with aura. And maybe the gt with a level requirement of 1 matters compared to a master farmer which has a much higher level requirement and may have a failure chance even with aura on? Then gullible tourist becomes the meta in the pickpockjeting bracket because she gives far more xp than other npcs you can pickpocket at level 1.

The aura says you have a 15% chance boost to a pickpocketing target but i've never failed a pickpocket with the aura on (except for heists ofc).

the meta may change a couple of times in next months with early game balance update & then aura removal

[inner flame]

Ya a lot of early game thieving was being focused on by mod sponge and mod daze for gamejam and thats why its sort of the most fleshed out of the early game changes with Pyramid Plunder and all the other thieving stuff.

[lean star]

i'm really grateful for that, early game thieving needed some rebalance and it's good they do these changes

i feel a bit sorry that people overfocus on the afk pickpocket nerf for late game players because thats what most people care about since most ppl are in late game so those changes in the early game are being overshadowed

gt will probably still be worth even if balanced with other pickpocketing targets because it's their loot that makes them OP.

[inner flame]

I think pickpocketing needed the nerfs but hey once you have something brokenly op, its harder to always take it out especially if its around for months/years where people get use to that being normal.

[tropic hamlet]

can't ever let 15 minute afk methods be meta for loot or xp

but they should preserve earned power as well

where if you have done the work grinding a skill and all the other buffs, you should be rewarded with an easier time

[quaint helm]

I agree that they can't be meta, and I agree that the early-mid have needs balanced for thv, but I don't think the roundabout priff method they are doing is the right call for like 115+ even with the boosts. You should still be able to 100% something for 15 mins at a time in some way shape or form. Great example of this outside thv is seren stones for mining. Not meta, good rates, 100% afk for 15 mins. I agree it needs rebalanced but not the way they are doing it for end game thv.

[lean star]

i wish it was something more like arch with sound clues

like arch is pretty afkable for mùe, for thieving i just have to click once every 15 mins and thats just to prevent me from logging out and returning to lobby

idk why reddit is so upset about this, i understand this nerf, it's just i hate this early bird bonus or type of fomo

[rough veldt]

I’m trying to understand the reasoning behind removing 15-minute AFK methods. How many methods actually allow for 15 minutes of inactivity? Additionally, if extended inactivity is considered an issue, why implement 15-minute lobby timers in the first place?

[novel gyro]

Mining and smithing, to name a few.

[lethal meadow]

So you can walk away to make a sandwich and not be logged out. Or take a shower

[rough veldt]

and why i would want to stay connected for 15 min if im not doing a 15 min afk activity?

[novel gyro]

Again, there are a few activities you can afk for 15 minutes (or even longer). It's just a generic feature.

[quartz crest]

Like eating aquatic fungus

Even if realistically the spot will move every few minutes

[clever halo]

Here are 3 different instances of different mods saying they do not intend to remove AFK training methods:

Mod Ryan saying they're not getting rid of AFK.

Mod Breezy saying they're not getting rid of AFK.

Mod Anvil saying they're not getting rid of AFK.

[lean star]

they aren't removing 15 min afk methods, they are removing those methods being meta. Big difference!

People should start reading more and stop spreading fake news.

[lethal meadow]

To be fair the main problem is nobody knowing exactly how the new thieving stuff ends up affecting the long afk thieving

People just assume the worst immediatly

[lean star]

That said a big reason of why these afk pickpocketing methods are meta is because the newer pickpocketing targets are far better than the older ones currently in the game and because of many items that all stack alongside each other: gloves of silence, ardy cape 3, thieving cape perk, ring of vitur, light form prayer, crystal mask spell, the OP aura, a thieving supporting familiar like magpie, Mushroomy pickpocketing bag, maybe a relic. All of that stacks.

the aura being removed will be a nerf too for thieving.

it is ig very strong i can do 15 mins of afk pickpocketing goobies, but to get the 2 abilities i want, i'm still looking at approximately a 20-25 hour grind.

it is a relatively reliable way atm to get nature runes & pure essence. (and with the higher level one smore end game runes, which for ironman also are kinda needed otherwise you have to do shop runs). And the 118 ones for the charms of course, where it is probably nice that there is a way to acquire charms that don't involve combat.

If you are a skiller you can't really use a magpie for instance since for charms you usually need combat. Being able to acquire charms via pickpocketing allows you to use summoning without levelling core combat skills.

Thieving in general super important skill rn for ironman (or skillers), like it is "the best gathering skill" and the easiest to push into the end game. Also the skill that partially fixes gear progression issues with ranged & mage if you don't want to use necro and aren't as experienced with PvM to go kill helwyr with lunar. And ranged is arguably even harder in that level bracket.

there's croessus though if you're a skiller and you need charms, I forgot about that

[real trail]

And lootshare

[rapid cobalt]

Hunter has a good few options too - charm sprites, charming moths, and spirit implings.

[rough veldt]

@clever halo @lean star nice arguments but...

[lethal meadow]

Sounds good to not have 15 mins full afk

5mins would be good enough

[woven fiber]

Will the changes make it 5?

[lethal meadow]

We don't know

We only know they're not trying to delete afk

[clever halo]

With the obvious perk and regen sources like bunyip... I have a feeling it's still going to be 15min afk-able for most pickpockets and 5~10min for high level suff.

[woven fiber]

Well, might as well dive in and see it when it's implemented, I'm sure it can still be adjusted depending on actual feedback when the changes have dropped

[lethal meadow]

We'll see. Not much point in 24/7 hating without knowing how it actually is when it goes live

[woven fiber]

True

[ocean lintel]

Agility improvement could include more rewards for completing courses, or goals to shoot for such as speed running, or collecting items on the way, or dodging obstacles. Something that makes them more fun to engage with. As mentioned by some folks over in the dailyscape thread, xp rate is a problem, but the courses being actually fun is another.

Having to make choices and get rewarded for those choices might be the basic concept needed there.

[lean star]

#1471199625364111370 i did post some suggestions here wrt agility

speed running would definitely make it sweaty and make it reliant on access to movement abilities such as double surge, dive/bladed dive and invention perks such as mobile

[lean star]

dodging obstacles could be done in an instance type of way, like how you avoid kbds fire breath

thats how i imagine a 2020s arena could be like

heists and bgh already use these type of mechanics to make you dodge stuff such as dinosaurs

[azure patio]

surging through fire breath ala 2026 lol

[lean star]

disable surge maybe in the arena maybe lol

[azure patio]

maybe, but it could be interesting to let people surge and dive. it is still being agile after all

[lean star]

true

maybe an agility skilling boss could be something like seren fight in extinction

[azure patio]

oh! A reaction agility course where you have to use dive and surge to get yourself to safety and success means your surge/dive refreshes like how it works against Nakatra

(ultimately i want the courses to be more unique than click on point and pray you dont fail lol)

[primal ore]

fantastic idea to be fair

[heavy locust]

delete lodestones

[tidal drift]

Keep them but add quest requirements to use them.

[heavy locust]

Make a teleport item and add the lodestone locations to it as you unlock the requirements for them. lodestones are just massive and ugly

[leaden glacier]

My problem with lodestones is it makes all my teleport spells feel kinda useless. If there was something (like diary or quest requirements) needed to unlock them that would feel a bit better to me as well.

[lean star]

i think some kind of teleport inface with the spells that isn't in the spellbook is probably useful, some kind of spellbooks being integrated with the lodestones

this but like if the spellbook teleports where also part of it, ofc i think to use lodestone you actually have to be outside combat, so it isn't a qt (unless you can actionbind these?), but if you haven't charged i'm pretty sure it doesn't act as a qt. I use wars if i have to do an emegrency teelport

the war's teleport is probably a bigger offender because it is too damn OP. Immediately next to a bank, spellbook switch or altar of war (to recharge pray and summ) or back in the bossing hub

the lodestones are less of an issue

like you no longer need altars, summoning obelisks, magic cape perk, change spellbooks/prayer book (the latter arguably you should never change) etc in this game

a lot of strategy has been eliminated there

a lot of the regular tps are like useless now

south feldip hills is kinda useless, you can tp from archaeology hub
taverley, varrock, lumbrigde, falador, ardougne are useless, tele-others also useless
anachronia one is useless, although the specific are probably more useful
ape atoll is a joke because of the banana
watchtower is pretty niche, never have to be there really, and yanille is closeby to yanille lodestone
gwd you can attune portal so is also kinda useless now, but i suppose it has its uses if you can't reattune your portal for some reason

i think only mazcab, trollheim (if you haven't done livid farm), the anachronia andlost grove ones? and camelot (for thieving) are useful...

other spellbooks less sure but i think it's also a bit meh. Like there's a canifis one in the ancient spellbook

i would like it if it was more integrated into the lodestones kind of thing (merged)

and if there was a level requirement and runes requirement but ability to store these runes in that interface.

with being able to keybind or favourite those teleports

but even then wars retreat means your emergency teleport is almost always going to be that one

[tropic hamlet]

I use the teleports

the hardcasted teleports are better for safecracking and some various other activities, it never hurts to have more teleport options

It takes a while to unlock double surge/shadow's grace/dive or bladed dive so early mobility is definitely a problem

fairy rings also have a far steeper req in RS3 than in OSRS

57 herb was not a hard requirement in the old version of the game because it was only needed to complete the magic essence pot but not to start the quest itself to get fairy ring access

but in the current game you can't even start the quest without having 57 herb first

If they reduced the barrier of getting all of these things, only then would I support getting rid of lodestones

[lean star]

is shadow's grace worth it, does it stack with a mobile perk?

[tropic hamlet]

it does not stack but you can't even get mobile without unlocking invention first

which is 80 craft/smithing/div

[lean star]

yea so i probably shouldn't enable the relic in that cause if i run with like an augmented excalibur for some reason

[tropic hamlet]

correct, just depends what you're doing because sometimes you will be using a skilling offhand and can't use excalibur

[split cargo]

rip pickpocketing

[hot comet]

deep lol

pickpocketing isn't getting anywhere near as bad as it used to be

(it's getting significantly better for a lot of people)

[tropic hamlet]

75% base success is really nice

lets you actually move up to new npcs when you get the level for it

[lean star]

its just the ones with 120 thief don't like it

[torn python]

So, this kinda belongs here, but not because it's "skilling based", but still is a reward for early/-midgame skilling that's been completely undermined because of the EoC changes:

Can we rework/restore the benefits of pre-Onyx jewellery?

• Rings of Recoil do 90% less recoil damage than what they originally did.
• STR and Magic amulets add 50% less damage bonuses than what they used to offer compared to other amulets.
• Combat Bracelets lost their offensive stats for no returned purpose or benefit.
• Duel Ring and Games Necklace teleports lost functionality with the introduction of lodestones.
• Amulet of Defense lost 66% of its defensive value, but somehow gained a (laughable amount) of offensive stats?

To solve:

• Rings of Recoil should recoil up to 100 damage on a hit, not capping at 10.
• STR and Magic Amulet should have a damage bonus of 35-40. They used to be superior over the glory/fury, at the downside of being style-locked and having no other beneficial stats like prayer or defense.
• Combat Bracelets should have ~20 added damage in all styles, and ~10 Armour. This reflects their combat bonuses it used to have pre-EoC.
• Duel Ring teleports (games room, het's oasis, castle wars) should have its teleport locations somewhat repositioned to less encroach the lodestone teleport destinations.
• Amulet of Defense needs to have its damage removed, and grant the wielder ~25 Armour
• Amulet of Power needs to have ~15 Armour added to its effects, in addition to a minor prayer reducing effect
• Amulet of Glory should have ~10 Armour added, in addition to a moderate prayer reducing effect.

[torn python]

Here

[tropic hamlet]

Magic ammy never gave damage, only acc

First amulets to give magic damage were from DG

So the craftable amulets are actually in a pretty decent state when you are able to access them

[halcyon basin]

Magic amulet does give magic damage now

Since accuracy is tied primarily to your weapon

If not entirely

[tropic hamlet]

Talking about compared to OSRS/RS2

[halcyon basin]

Ah

(I've been off disc most of the day so didn't know full context)

[tropic hamlet]

Magic amulet in the live game is already far better than any version of it in the past

[halcyon basin]

Yeah

[lean star]

RS1 return/nostalgia, when?

more accuracy is useless though if you're already capped at 100% which if your stats are high level will be often the case vs a lot of slayer monsters (and esp when boosting with potions and so on)

[fresh crater]

Not sure if anyone has raised this point yet, but it would be a nice and very simple change for early/new players (especially those in F2P) if Priest in Peril could be changed to require maybe 20 rune (or pure) essence instead of 50, especially (for new members) if the essence is going to be removed from the Wicked Hood.

[novel gyro]

Or one can just do an additional trip for the essence (F2P and members below 30 mining) as intended. If you relied on the Wicked Hood for this quest, you're doing it wrong.

[flint lynx]

This is obviously a good change. The game is meant to be fun, this is a F2P quest, no reason not to allow new players to complete it in one trip.

[green lynx]

Something I'd like about Priest in Peril is to fix that dialogue about the dog. Drevil "Drezel" tells you to kill the dog because it is annoying and barks a lot and your character just non-chalantly goes with it. "One dead dog coming". Change the dialogue that they ask you to kill it because it's a very dangerous beast that mauled someone and such... some actual reason.

[tropic hamlet]

why lol

being a morally bereft adventure who bumbles into doing the bidding of great evils is just a part of the game

[green lynx]

For me, this part just feels off. Cerberus is in fact temple guardian and not a normal dog and I'm sure that bit could have been done a bit better without making us a bumbling idiot who says "One dead dog coming". Even more as this is the beginning of Vampyre storyline which is one of the darkest in terms of tone.

[quartz crest]

It's pretty early in the timeline

Before the adventurer has learned to think before acting

That changes after one small favor basically

[lean star]

why?

rune essence isn't really hard to come by

[fresh crater]

Arbitrary additional walking provides no value of any kind.

[lean star]

then you have to delete all quests

[fresh crater]

That's a good idea, it's a really flippant remark that even a typical morally grey character (the adventurer) wouldn't ever canonically make.

[lean star]

in particular ONE SMALL FAVOUR 😉

It's a bit random to complain about needing 50 rune essence... in priest in peril

given some other quests

[fresh crater]

That's probably the funniest strawman I've seen all year, well done sir, lol.

[green lynx]

I mean, the humorous exchange with monks can stay, I'd just change that bit about the dog to sound it more like it's a dangerous monster (which it actually is) than just an annoying dog. And the adventurer can naively think how they slayed a dangerous beast.

[lean star]

when priest in peril was released, the vampyre line didn't exist yet or wasn't being planned, it's a 2001-2002 quest when the tone of the game was still different

[green lynx]

"Hello, my name is Drevil" - "Drezel" - "I mean, Drezel"

[fresh crater]

Yes, that seems like a good way to tweak the dialog.