Road to Restoration – Early Game Rebalance

[drowsy pawn]

What is being considered for Eastern Islands flagged island daily resource reset?

As well as daily Waiko contract cap

[lean star]

what i don't like is they roll an update, give early bird bonus and then walk back from it. Then what is the point of the update itself?

for most things, bossing is always way more worth it than skilling to obtain said items, so i don't see why skilling methods always have to be nerfed to death, so that they're never worth doing it.

high level players don't care about that they read this as a nerf to them. And for them it's a whole list of nerfs on top of the dailyscape overhaul. Easyscape getting gone is a huge pill to swallow for some of these.

[tropic hamlet]

Insane exp + profitable loot + 15 minute afk

Can't get much more spoiled than this and yet people still whine

[stark adder]

This is on the "to be reviewed" list

[lean star]

because they are being spoiled and they don't like no longer being spoiled

[hot comet]

this is actually called, "playing a live service", sometimes things launch too strong and get nerfed, sometimes they launch too weak and get buffed, sometimes things change around them and then they need to get changed despite launching fine

[tropic hamlet]

every time nerfs get pitched in either this game or OSRS, reddit instantly catches on fire and you see the wonderful chorus of "I can't believe you're discriminating against me because I had work and didn't get to abuse the busted rates, thanks jagex"

earned power should feel good but like jagex clearly just overshot really hard with the pickpocketing stuff they added

nothing about that is earned power

there should always be some tradeoff between exp rates/loot/intensity

[dense gorge]

I mean tbf it's a bit weird that they keep nerfing things that are like 10m/h, at most, while a lot of bosses are at 100m/h+. It makes for a very steep climb for new players to achieve high end gear and supplies. Granted there is prolly a hell of a lot more people constantly thieving than pvming, so as far as supplies entering I could see the argument. But does feel bad if you don't have much access to better methods.

[orchid osprey]

Reduce the weathered wall shortcut in the Ectofuntus basement from 58 to early/mid 30s, say 31 or 35, or early 40s at the latest.
You can do Ghost Ahoy at lvl 25 agility, and this adds a very good prayer training method at early level, before the player owned altars come into play.
It never really comes into question in the later game, so speeding up this method for early prayer training makes sence.

[lethal meadow]

99% of the time people do have access but just don't want to do the better money making methods ( which are all pvm )

[orchid osprey]

Both Cosmic altar shortcuts (currently at 46 and 66 agility) should also be lowered, since you can craft cosmic runes as low as lvl 27

[lethal meadow]

Do abyss runs and you don't have to use the shortcuts at all 😛

[lean star]

maybe we should do a list of suggestions for all shortcuts

i think taverley dungeon shortcut is also rough at lvl 70 (it isn't really a high level area, fremenniks layer dungeon got their levels lowered too and that's arguably slightly more high level than taverley dungeon other than hellhounds and black demons fro whcih you want to use the otehr shortcut anyways).

and i think the varrock south fence should be lowered to lvl 5 so that it is a shortcut f2p players can use (opening up the road for f2p area easy achievements to be potentially doable in future for them)

it's a literal fence, i can walk over a fence like.

if you can jump over the bridge in the swamp without failing, i'm sure your character can climb a fence....

i think for agility when there is a 110-120 update, you can potentially add "chance for double loot" for 95, 105 & 115 (maybe from the new pickpocket targets?)

[lean star]

i know, that's why these shortcuts don't make sense because they're so old and outdated that they aren't even used anymore

[lethal meadow]

That's basically every shortcut in the game

[lean star]

the taverley dungeon shortcut lvl 70 is probably one of the most used shortcuts also, because access to blue dragons but also because it is used in a lot of quests to get to the black knight portion of the dungeon. It might make some quests slightly time consuming if the requirement was less harsh, i think 70 harsh, most quests you do that use black knights base you wouldn't have lvl 70 yet. The times you get a slayer task to kill something in the dungeon you also won't have lvl 70 yet, by the time you have lvl 70 you don't really have to use the dungeon all that much anymore other than maybe for archaeology.

it might literally be easier to try get dungeoneering 99 for the cape if you care about the hellhounds access for the tp to the resource dungeon that much than to grind 80 agility for the other shortcut lol

i think lvl 60 for the one shortcut and 70 for the other make more sense than 70 & 80.

Priff which you need 75 agility for i consider a much bigger reward than a literal shortcut... in the taverley dungeon

[green lynx]

Genuine question... do you all expect the developers to "double back" on some intended changes now after blogs were released and some suggestions weren't taken that well at best?

[hot comet]

no

not really

they might change specifics

but Chaos Altar IS getting nerfed

it might not be by requiring skull

but it's getting nerfed

Fort Altar is also getting nerfed

Pickpocketing will be less afk

etc

I don't expect them to go back on core goals at all

they might change specifics

[green lynx]

There's just something I seriously hope they never mess with... run energy. But even here, I'm worried because they were mentioning it with negative connotations

[lean star]

i'm fine with chaos altar nerf, i get that they want to make POH popular again and that a 120 construction update probably is going to change this once again. But i'm not fine with demonic skullbeing added as a requirement to use it.

Same for fort altar, i'm fine with the nerf, fort is OP as it is already. The complaint is more that it doesn't make sense that a 75 construction altar should be more rewarding than a lvl 90 one which i can see the point of, the solution could be too change the level requirements? Or for fort to be situationally the better altar. One problem is that the forst is a bit balanced around the steady/gradual progression and that i think the balance of unlocking the buildings and their respective tiers is pretty good right now. But the tier 3 chapel right now requires elder frames.

A solution could be too add a higher tier POH altar that is the best altar and to have a lvl 75 altar that is on par or slightly worse than the lvl 90 altar in fort?

Prayer should be one of the faster skills, it isn't really skilling, it is an item sink.

And necro also already uses a lot of the same materials for their communion rituals

ecto should stay the best one for ashes though.

At some point in the future, there'll be 110-120 prayer so it is okay if we get 4x prayer xp or even 4.5x or 5x for higher tier methods like maybe a level 115 altar in the POH?

[green lynx]

I generally feel very misled on what they were promising during TH removal campaign and what their actual plans of "rebalancing" are. I fully expected some firm reworks for skills because their promise was to make the core gameplay more enjoyable so people won't need to rely on bxp and TH benefits and all.

[lean star]

I think they still plan on doing that but they shot themselves in the foot with a huge list of nerfs in a post about early game balance updates... that affected late game

with all buffs other than agility being vague with "numbers are still in consideration", so people can't really talk about buffs to early game hunter & div (that doesn't even affect most players) because it is being buried by all the nerfs mentioned in same posts. While the buffs for early game agility are still... not really impactful, a step in right direction. But it isn't faster than jumping the bridge at the swamp currently, and doesn't change that early game agility remains tedious and that you're better off doing quests to skip early game agility

in ironman guide

[green lynx]

I hope they plan doing that. I feel they are trying to stuff in a few months what would realistically take years and they only ripped bandaids without treating the wounds underneath.

And yes, that's what triggered me... the only vague talk about buffs but whole lot about nerfs which only enforces my belief their main goal is nerfs, not buffs. "Remove what's problematic as quickly as possible" instead of "Improve the non-problematic Y so people wouldn't rely on problematic X".

I know I am currently afraid to play... until I get full assurance they are not trying to turn RS into good-graphics OSRS. But for that, I imagine I need to wait months at least.

[burnt locust]

Yeah I agree Amun

For the first update on the Road to Restoration, it'd help if they had included either an alternative to each thing, or a justification for not having one

Like- "Hey, we know we're nerfing the Morytania agility shortcut grind- We feel that jumping back and forth over one spot doesn't fit the design of agility, but we're significantly boosting the exp rates of low level agility courses to make things more interesting!"

As an aside- I think we need to massively boost the EXP that Gnome Ball & Skull Ball give to make them viable again, as well as giving new ways to train agility in those lines

[hot comet]

they did buff the low level agility course XP though?

I dunno, they're all up by at least 50%

they're still courses so I personally still hate them

but like

a full agility rework isn't going to happen while they are also doing everything else

and everything else does actually need to happen

[burnt locust]

Nono, I'm saying what they did for Agility

I want them to explain things better, and Agility is the right way to go about it

[timber rivet]

Dear Lord, I tried Gmomeball on Leagues and was getting slower XP than Burthorpe Course on main.

Plus Surge+Dive to go from one end to the other in a single tick breaks the minigame entirely lol

[burnt locust]

Yeah the exp rates are SO BAD

[green lynx]

I look it like this... I had ability to get 2x/3x xp rate for agilitx with bxp/pulse scores. The reason I sticked to bxp with agility is because training was way way too tedious to me.

Now they decides to remove my no-money way to get these bxp stacks. Obviously I'm frustrated as I know I have no way to train now. But they promise me they'll make the skill much more enjoyable to play so I won't feel this void.

But now the reality... I'm still stuck in exactly the same tedious training method. The skill is absolutely no more enjoyable, only now I get a bit permanent buff to xp which is nowhere close to 2x, let alone 3x.

So clearly I'm pissed off as I'm in worse place now, not better. Still stuck with this awful clicking-madness training, only slower unless I spend more real money on it.

[dense gorge]

tbf they only addressed 1-50 this blog, which at the rates given would take like 3 hours? I'd wait till the mid and late game changes to see how it's gonna turn out. If that's also just relatively minor buffs to xp, then sure.

[hot comet]

they really cannot be "minor buffs to XP"

you need 90 agi to do Advanced Barb course

it's like 700-800ish xp per lap

(that might be slightly better since the first two obstacles are shared with the low level course)

I'd need to check the blod

blog*

I think there's similarish rates on the low level courses post blog?

...there's similarish rates on the low level courses right now lol

agility is such a cursed skill lol

[timber rivet]

700 XP per poison+++ every 2 ticks plus profit 😄

[lean star]

tbh aside of afk pickpocketing they do have alternatives, ppl just don't like the alternatives

or they aren't specific about those

which is their fault

but they say they do plan on buffing somle stuff, just not specific about it

[lean star]

the issue isn't the bxp/pulse cores being removed, i'm glad these are gone, it is the skill itself

they need to buff the skill.

no one is disagreeing with you that agility is painful & tedious and i totally get why you wanted to use bxp/cores on it or reroll dailies for agility (i do that too, everyone does, the game offers you those and agility makes most sense to use these on)

i like a grind but agility grind just isn't fun (& alos pointless)

they are aware of it though, they are the most clear about agility because they probably know it better than us.

i wouldn't worry about agility, they are aware of it. It's some other skills they might need more feedback for

like dungeoneering, given there was no word about that for instance

[inner flame]

Since the casual playerbase is losing a lot of the more rewarding systems for gaining systems like dailies/mtx, would the return of random events or something similar be able to fill the void? This would create a new era of exp as a small bonus for natural gameplay and be random again. Also could introduce plenty of the cosmetics themed with these new events.

[ornate widget]

Your tony’s mattock head flies off…

[inner flame]

Heh

[lean star]

random events were annoying and barely rewarding, there is a reason they got removed, only reason they were ever implemented was anti-bot purposes

[inner flame]

But i do like the current iteration of them in osrs. Random chunks of xp from playing content and then rolling some small dnd activity to get fun rewards is pretty healthy imo. I dont even care if it was antibot but its a good solution for losing out on all the free stuff that casual players have become so accustomed to imo.

[lean star]

the "this game is becoming like osrs 2.0 crowds would riot"

[inner flame]

Ya why not copy the game thats gotten 10x more popular than the original RuneScape. Clearly the model works...

[lean star]

Just make the game less tedious without having to rely on all kinds of stuff unrelated to playing the game in order to help you with these tedious grinds.

There are still tools like penguins that osrs doesn't have that can help with that

or troll invasion

or tears of guthix

[lean star]

you haven't checked the reddit yet ig?

they can implement some stuff that works but random events is not one of those...

likewise osrs has done same with rs3 they implemented and backported some stuff that was in rs3 in osrs, it never hurts to look at the 2 games, but they have a different identity.

[inner flame]

I have but reddits always going to have thousands of opinions since its unfiltered forum with all types of players

[green lynx]

I know the bxp is not the "issue" but rather the skill. That's why I had to rely on bxp with agility as without it, I literally can't train it. And I really mean literally. Yes, luckily I already have it behind it on my main regarding 99 but I'm absolutely not out of the woods. And if the skill itself doesn't give me some more enjoyable alternatives OR comparable buff to bxp... I'll be only in worse place (unless I start buying bxp stars with real money which I hope I won't need to).

You are one of the reasonable ones about me needing to rely on bxp in this case. I often just get comments "why do you play RS if you can't do the grind?" which is something that will guaranteed make me angry.

[lean star]

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1qxq8a7/for_better_or_worse_road_to_restoration_will_turn/

check this post

[inner flame]

We can even have medium size lamps from random events which is way better than osrs in comparison

[lean star]

you aren't getting the point

i'd rather have that jagex gives all of those that complain just 200 mil xp in every skill and be done with it

i prefer OP methods/skilling methods and fun interaction with the game (like afk pickpocketing lol), i don't want lamps/free xp and that kind of nonsense

if you do your penguins and are smart about allocating those lamps from penguins you can still skip a skill you don't like in a few months, especially if you get through the early game slog so that the lamps are proportionally much larger size of xp.

there are still ways

same for some quest rewards, troll invasion etc.

[green lynx]

I remember back in late 2000s, I so heavily relied on penguins to level up certain skills...

Especially prayer

[lean star]

and penguins are fun. They can't get rid of it, people would be upset.

A weekly is less pressuring than a daily. If you don't do a weekly it's because you don't like them or aren't playing the game, one of those two.

[green lynx]

I hope they dare not to remove toolbelt...

Or do anything with run energy

[lean star]

dw about that lol

[brittle plaza]

I think toolbelt removal is out of the picture

[lean star]

they aren't doing that, i can guarantee you that

[green lynx]

They better

[inner flame]

I personally enjoyed minigames as the most fun way to earn exp but they gutted the exp/rewards for them when mtx was ramping up

[brittle plaza]

I do expect that new players will not start out with such a large portion of the toolbelt filled however

meaning you have to find and add tools starting out

[green lynx]

I wouldn't mind if you had to fill the toolbelt though

With tools

[brittle plaza]

That, and I could see toolbelt get a bit trimmed to not have as many items

I don't think it will ever go away however

[quartz crest]

it's basically a fallback for augmented tools anyway

[lean star]

the QOL is nice, and it makes rs3 a bit more bearable than osrs, like run energy too, the wood boxes, the ore boxes, the herb bag etc, i don't think they're touching that, you're still levelling up the skills or collecting the drops from slayer monsters, very different from "cut a log every day and get 60k xp gameplay loop"

[quartz crest]

just add more augmentable tools for more skills

[brittle plaza]

Tbh I think it would be healthy even as part of the tutorial that you add a few core tools to toolbelt, so you

1. Learn it exist

2. Understand that actions in game do correspond to tools instead of just randomly working on its own

[green lynx]

I know those few times I play my OSRS newbie, I rage whenever I forget I need to have a hatchet or hammer or tinderbox in my inventory... especially as banks are way more sparse there and run energy exponentially slower

[lean star]

and the wicked hood can become some kind of hood where you store teleports to altars potentially (instead of the tablets you break that you can buy with runespan points), i think that's a good way to ensure the wicked hood remains relevant, idk what about the other pieces of the wicked set, but they're also really expensive with runespan points so those becoming mandatory means the runespan grind for runespan points becomes bigger and that's one ppl didn't like about merchant being removed (although it's mostly that ridicilous comp trim requirement lol)

25K for a purely cosmetic set would be rough and i'm sure many already have bought the set

i don't want the wicked hood to be a daily (free essence/free teleports), but more repurposed

[green lynx]

I HOPE they are not touching such stuff. But I can't deny I have serious lack of trust in developers in terms of that.

[lean star]

i think i make that mistake often too but i haven't really played a lot of osrs i could maybe check my account, but it's probably outrageously low level lol.

[lean star]

thats my account lol

you see what bothers me in the game the most if you look at my skills

[green lynx]

I have a fully separate newbie for OSRS... not related neither to my main, neither to my RS3 newbie. I think the highest skills I have are attack and strength 40. I mainly play it from time to time as I want to do OSRS-exclusive quests

Among those, I did a couple Kourend ones and two Varlamore quests

And of course several shared quests

[lean star]

i might do some for sailing and zeah and some stuff that isn't in rs3

[green lynx]

Oh, and first sailing quest

But I really do not like sailing

Seeing Thurgo's hut from Karamja's port...

[lean star]

i actually think sailing could be nice but it would have to be very exploration focused. But if it's more like moving around like you do in armadyls citadel or in necro with your boat its probably pretty chill to do, but the big make it or break it would be "content" and "xploration", lots of new islands & land masses to explore. It would be an exploration focused skill. They can do that, they pulled it off with arch but thats what would make or break sailing if they ever implemented it

[green lynx]

I feel they'd need to scale RS map for sailing to work.

[lean star]

arch would be tedious if it was a traditional skill without exploring these places/and the whole exploration element of it (ig it may be tedious if you've done it once or twice, like in leagues it's probably mroe of an issue)

[lean star]

yes the map would have to change, soul wars island also an instance instead of an island on map etc, karamja and crandor are a bit problematic placed.

the squareness of a lot of landmasses would bother me

[green lynx]

I love that Karamja really feels like a distant island in RS, thanks to being an instance

[lean star]

Anachronia i think for instance was really well done for that reason, it didn't felt like a square of land that was added to the map

it felt natural, natural borders, natural coasts

[green lynx]

And not wedged between Kandarin and Asgarnia

Anachronia surprised me about how massive it was when released

[lean star]

areas like wilderness and karamja are basically squares, the tutorial area with burthorpe & taverley is a square

[green lynx]

I hope Havenhythe is also more natural in shape...

[lean star]

i hope so

[green lynx]

I wonder how will they lock the yet-to-be-released areas on it

On map especially

[lean star]

but the way it was designed also makes it feel more massiove than it is, you really need the agility course to traverse kinda.

but i like that (even if for gameplay it can sometimes be a bit of struggle to bank)

[lean star]

probably a bit to the east of morytania, we will have to see ig

[green lynx]

Yeah. It really has this Skull Island feeling where it's not easy to move around

[lean star]

it takes a while also to familiarize yourself with anachronia because it is basically a maze network if you aren't often there (outside of the base)

[green lynx]

Yeah, but as it comes with three parts, certain portions will have to be locked when part 1 gets released. Makes me wonder how. Maybe just some landmass on the map with no details yet in that area.

[golden leaf]

Saw some speculation that jagex could consider removing porters from the game. I think that if they remove porters and don't address how egregiously long the 120 grind for some skills are that I would just be done with the game.

Doing 120 arch on my cgim would've been so much worse had my group not spent time and effort to get porters / GOTE.

[green lynx]

This new developers team is heavily leaning into nerfing. Like... probably even more than they are willing to admit.

[golden leaf]

Tbh if they want to turn this into OSRS lite then ill just go back to my iron on osrs.

[green lynx]

And "integrity" is very clearly something close to OSRS for them.

Because every statement from them ultimately leads to it

[lean star]

integrity is the roots of the game which is indeed closer to osrs than it is today.

That doesn't mean osrs, but it means staying true to the core of the game which is that skilling or pvm should be at forefront, not dailies and bxp and dxp

[lean star]

this isn't becoming osrs lite

[green lynx]

It's like they are ashamed of their own game. That's very discouraging feeling for me, considering I stood behind this game consistently for over 19 yeaes

[lean star]

well i can imagine they were as long those mtx were in the game

like sorry

[golden leaf]

Obviously nothing has been outright said, but if they're actually considering things like removing lodestones and porters than Id rather just go back to OSRS than waste my time on the discount version.

[lean star]

they aren't removing those

[novel gyro]

I remember telling them that certain skilling is just better at lower level than higher level, like fly fishing vs harpooning.

Then Jagex nerfs net fishing without buffing higher level fishing.

Well then...

[lean star]

and if they consider it they might as well poll it.

[green lynx]

After their recent blogs, I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

[lean star]

no word about lodestones, toolbelt or whatever

they're more likely talking about fort

which has five fucking banks

[green lynx]

They misled us already with their statements during TH removal campaign

[brittle plaza]

Breezy said yesterday they're unlikely to remove lodestones

I've not been remotely mislead

[timber rivet]

endless fog that deals 2000 hard typeless per tick

[golden leaf]

I don't like that it is "unlikely" rather than "we are not"

[green lynx]

This!

[golden leaf]

That seems rife with "oh well we never committed to that"

[green lynx]

Exactly this

[brittle plaza]

His direct quote was "im about 98% certain we aren't removing lodestones as a system/feature"

[golden leaf]

Better than nothing but still concerning that its being discussed

[lean star]

you did say though you were fine with burthorpe & tvaerley only having 1 lodestone

[brittle plaza]

They're not going to give 100% guarantee on this

[green lynx]

I'm sure they'd love to remove them because they are not "integrity" to them.

[brittle plaza]

because they never give 100% guarantee on anything

[lean star]

None of us disagreed with saying that Priff, Menaphos should have their lodestones removed because the player unlocks it

[golden leaf]

What?

Why would you remove those lodestones?

[green lynx]

Yes, I said there could be fewer lodestones, but absolutely not removing them.

[lean star]

What i do have a problem with is that you can basically do half of the skills at forst and never leave fort because it's the best place for so many skills.

[lean star]

fewer lodestones also can fit that narrative

[brittle plaza]

I do think we could see fewer lodestones. Taverley is like 12 seconds away from burthorpe for example

[lean star]

who said something about...

deleting ALL lodestones?

[brittle plaza]

And Ashdale I dont know if people would notice

[novel gyro]

Because it's a skilling hub and intended to be made and treated like that.

So I guess we need to remove fort then 😏

[brittle plaza]

But thats a topic for another time

[green lynx]

And god forbid they try to tamper with run energy...

[lean star]

no but less OP.

[timber rivet]

I think one lode nobody would miss would be Ashdale. Especially since it’s like 14 tiles from the Port Sarim lodestone plus Gudrik, not that you ever go there. Like who even remembers Agoroth nowadays?

[lean star]

which the altar nerf is a good step

[brittle plaza]

I do think its interesting how different reception different players have had

[green lynx]

The "grounded medieval setting" is also a source of worry for me.

[lean star]

although i suppose they should up the level for the POH altar

[brittle plaza]

I've never had this much confidence in Jagex and I feel I'm getting exactly what was talked about when this process started

[novel gyro]

Ashdale lode is a leftover from the old tutorial.

[golden leaf]

I imagine anyone advocating for reducing lodestones would be thrilled if they just had to go to their POH and use a TP box instead

-1 law air earth rune

[brittle plaza]

Do note that this "grounded medieval setting" is compatible with "we're travelling offworld to Vampyrium through a great portal" thats slated to happen in a year

[lean star]

could be removed but its not worth the effort of removing it if it takes resources like

no one cares about ashdale

maybe do the agility course there 💀

[novel gyro]

My weekly 300 coins from Agoroth 💀

[green lynx]

I'm worried for the first time in my 19+ years of playing whether I'll continue to play. That's my response to this integrity map.

[novel gyro]

Too much FOMO!

[green lynx]

I'm currently way too nervous to play

[timber rivet]

Wait there’s an agi course? Honestly didn’t know

[golden leaf]

Lakigigar in your mind why does reducing lodestones improve the game?

[green lynx]

I deleted the launcher from my computer

[lean star]

what did you do 19 years ago, because that game was far more grindy than today

[golden leaf]

Because as it stands it just means I have to have more TP jewellery or spend an extra 2mins running somewhere

[green lynx]

On Friday

[heavy locust]

Delete all lodestones.

[golden leaf]

Why?

[brittle plaza]

I resubbed on two accounts on january 19th

for the first time since 2023

[lean star]

more exploration of the map, and devaluation of existing teleports like spellbook

[timber rivet]

Searing take right there.

[brittle plaza]

So I'm absolutely on board with the roadmap

I'm so happy the game is heading in positive direction

[golden leaf]

What is there to explore?

[novel gyro]

"exploration"

[golden leaf]

Its a 20+ year old game

[lean star]

nothing because you tp to everything immediately

[novel gyro]

You go there to get the lodestone, so you won't have to deal with the same walk time after time.

[lean star]

there are other teleports in the game too

the only reason they are still used is clues apparently

[golden leaf]

So you're hung up on the fact that the spellbook doesnt get used?

[timber rivet]

I would agree with making lodestones work like fairy rings, pending War’s Retreat not being 12 tiles from the Draynor lode.

[golden leaf]

Especially given that ppl are frequently on ancients/lunar spellbook?

[lean star]

i suppose it isn't a big issue

[golden leaf]

If its a matter of NEW players not exploring then maybe add minor requirements to lodestones

[lean star]

you're all speculating now

[golden leaf]

or tie them to quest states

[lean star]

jagex hasn't said any of this

[golden leaf]

We have to speculate b/c jagex is being vague

"We want to introduce friction"

[lean star]

they should just hack your account and give 200ùm xp in every singhle skill

[heavy locust]

Also, lodestones are ugly af

[lean star]

problem solved

[golden leaf]

Bruh im a CGIM that is mostly maxed.

[lean star]

there is your gigamega ultralarge xp lamp that you want

[lean star]

maybe the design of the lodestones could be different but they've already changed them a bit

[green lynx]

Quests = fun
Everything else = not fun

That was me from 2006 to like 2014 when I joined the clan (which I left last year). I began to love the game more when I could do more in short time I had available every day and when I finally had people to talk to.

But it's also this... back then, the grind was all I knew. But when something gradually becomes better for me, I begin to despise the older days, looking at them with disdain and feeling so glad I'm in better place. So when I'm in better place, I can now stay in this place or move to even better place (which would become my new default). But going "back"... that's something I am genuenly unsettled about.

[lean star]

i don't like how they feel out of place in the middle of nowhere like for instance the desert

[golden leaf]

Also thats just terrible, you dont want to actually argue the point but just throw out "oh you disagree with me so you must want everything handed out so you're 200m all instantly"

[lean star]

they stick out in the environment

[heavy locust]

Yeah, they're an eyesore and feel so out of place

[lean star]

you criticize "friction"

bro you're playing runescape

[golden leaf]

I come from Path of exile where Friction was used for YEARS to justify terrible game decisions

[heavy locust]

Honestly it's faster to get around in osrs than rs3

[golden leaf]

Dont at me with that noise.

[heavy locust]

Just shows we don't need lodestones, just some new teleports from a quest or something

[golden leaf]

So change lode stones to POH jewellery box, problem solved?

[heavy locust]

Remove lodes and add new teleports through mini quests/quests and other things

[lean star]

we could get rid of some lodestones. It's probably not going to happen anyways

taverley & burthorpe don't need 2

[heavy locust]

They said they don't plan on removing them

But damn, one can hope

[golden leaf]

^ actual bait

[green lynx]

Don't give developers idea of really trying to remove lodestones... because this new team would surely do it

[lean star]

Priffdinas, Menaphos i would not support removing

[heavy locust]

Banish them all, just add a priff center tele to the seed

[golden leaf]

If the devs have an issue with ease of access to those lode stones then add them to the medium area diaries

[lean star]

you unlock the lodestone from the quest

so to me it counts as "earned"

you worked for it

you deserve it

[golden leaf]

Devils advocate priff lodestone is tehcnically already that way

XD

Because you have to do the priff quest to even access priff

[lean star]

i mean thats my point

[golden leaf]

But I get your point

[lean star]

thats why i'm defending priff ldoestone

i'm also worried that priff would die if lodestone is removed as high level skilling hub

it already was hurt a lot with release of fort

[limber wind]

Fast Travel in most games usually has a quest requirement or a cost in game currency or resources (like gold) to use everytime

[heavy locust]

Lodestone teles are slow anyways. They feel bad even having to use them for clues when all the other teles are faster

[green lynx]

The only thing I'd do with lodestones, is maybe combine Taverley/Burthorpe one, and Catherby/Seers one. Maaybe Lumbridge/Draynor one.

[lean star]

i mean if you aren't using vis wax you aren't using them correctly

vis wax is literally not an issue (in the game rn)

[heavy locust]

Yes, with vis. Theyre still slower

[limber wind]

You could probably condense one or two lodestones and add a gp cost or more thematically, a cost in runes to use lodestones.

[lean star]

yes that i would support

[prime kelp]

make quick teles take law runes and gp.

[lean star]

idk which lodestones could be removed

[novel gyro]

Back to 30 minutes cooldown.

[heavy locust]

They already said it would be laws most likely

[lean star]

nahg that was awful lol

[limber wind]

1k gp plus 2 law runes to teleport from Menaphos to Falador Pog

[lean star]

nah no return of home teleport lol

[green lynx]

I do play my newbie with self-imposed challenge to not use lodestones but I wouldn't want the removal of lodestoens just to make it harder for playerbase. That just feels petty to me.

(Even though it seems to be mentality of several Redditors)

[lean star]

do some on reddit want the removal?

[limber wind]

You could justify it in lore by saying that you use runes to activate and use the lodestone network as well as paying a cost to wizards to maintain the network. Or something along those lines.

[novel gyro]

The game is already about to become harder thanks to said playerbase.

[golden leaf]

I mean there are ppl calling for removal of porters on reddit

If they remove porters from the game and dont adjust the 120 grinds on skills like arch then ill just peace out

[lean star]

i don't like lodestones in middle of nowhere

i do like them near cities but the problem the spellbook makes some of those awkward but ig there is little you can change about that

[golden leaf]

@lean star make teleports book agnostic

[lean star]

maybe wars is also a big offender of the stuff i feel that reduces the friction but it probably would hurt pvm activities if you remove wars, i don't think i want wars to be removed, but idk how to fix it really

[heavy locust]

Teletabs exist

[golden leaf]

and allow us to charge them up and not need to carry runes 24/7

[lean star]

yea that i support

[green lynx]

Mostly those who make fun of players who prefer more easy pace.

[lean star]

like lodestones its allright for me, it's the dailychore that has to go for me and that i have a much bigger problem with

i use lodestones myself too heavily so

[golden leaf]

I know its never happening and it has massive balancing implications id love for a omni spellbook at 120 mage.

[lean star]

i'd be impacted a lot if they got removed

[golden leaf]

I know the cape exists for changing

[green lynx]

I seriously worry they'll tamper with run energy as well

[golden leaf]

and so does wars

[novel gyro]

Funny. I'm impacted a lot with the removal of daily challenges. Yet here we are.

[lean star]

they're not touching run energy

[golden leaf]

But having an omni spellbook as an end game reward would be great

[lean star]

thats one way to piss off everyone

[green lynx]

Because that could have as well be dealbreaker for me

[heavy locust]

Glad challenges are going

[lean star]

esp with silverhawks being yeeted and agility being a slog atp

[heavy locust]

Surely we can convince them to remove lodestones

[green lynx]

I can't say for sure, saying how everything is "too easily reached" and how "agility is not impactful as skill anymore"

[golden leaf]

Moist must be bored out of his mind with bait like that

[lean star]

there are other ways to ensure agility is impactful as a skill

making run energy matter again is poor because most ppl wouldn't notice if they have higher level agility, it would disproportionally affect lower level players

[green lynx]

The amount of times I got disillusioned by this new team in matter of weeks... I can't feel anything for granted anymore,.

That they will not do

[lean star]

because there are far more levels to cross between 1-80 than between 80-99 for instance

[golden leaf]

I mean Agi only becomes less awful at 85

when you get the full anachronia course

And the changes they proposed are not enough to make early agility feel even slightly better.

[heavy locust]

Lower some shortcut req's for agility and add more useful shortcuts. Then we can remove lodestones

[lean star]

but there are far more levels in the early & mid game to get

and run energy would be tied to level progression instead of xp progression

or agility would need to be an elite skill

[golden leaf]

More levels but not more xp/h

Oh they're never touching elite skills again lmao

[lean star]

i'm just saying run energy is not the solution for agility to matter again

[timber rivet]

Yeah, add a single click shortcut from Prif to Mory then we’ll talk

[golden leaf]

Terper moist is just out here trying to rage bait people

[green lynx]

I also worry they may remove ore boxes... all that talk about "making size of backpack and distance to the bank matter"

And stuff like that

[timber rivet]

I’m aware but I’m kind of bored too lol

[green lynx]

A few days ago, I wouldn't have such worries... now they are all time high

[lean star]

vampyre-elves wormhole shortcut

or digging right inside through the core of gielinor

[golden leaf]

Anyways, I hope they dont actually consider removing lodestones or porters because doing 120 training for skills like arch without porters is awful

[lean star]

removing porters would make div completely useless

in fact i actually think withf riction they meant make porters matter more

[timber rivet]

I heard back in RS Classic somebody made a bot that would walk around the (much smaller) world map control continually, saying “I’m the Gielinor Express, follow me to get to where you want to go!”

The only good bot ever

[golden leaf]

Div would exist only to make divine charge

and unlock invention

[lean star]

in fact portents are probably underused because the game interface doesn't really tell yuou about them

div has a very poor tutorial

because it doesn't tell you what to do with it

[heavy locust]

Wanting porters removed is actual bait. But I'm sure we can compromise and just remove lodestones instead.

[golden leaf]

I wish I could emote messages

in this channel

[lean star]

different question

if 5 lodestones had to be removed, which 5 would you remove?

[heavy locust]

How can we remove lodestones?

[timber rivet]

Says the obby mauler living in 2008 lol
I know it’s bait I’m just bored

[novel gyro]

5 I don't have acces to 😏

[lean star]

i mean those are the best lodestones cause it's a reward you have to work towards

[heavy locust]

Hey man, they took that from me in this beta... least I can do is take everyone's lodestones

[lean star]

except bandit camp is a bit weird, but i think that one is there to swap to ancient spells/prayers before wars was a thing

[green lynx]

Hmmm... Seers, Taverley, Ashdale, Ooglog, and Eagles' Peak

[golden leaf]

Draynor is fine to go if wars exists

its the same thing with 1 extra step

[timber rivet]

Nooo muh daily sandstone

[golden leaf]

There isnt daily sandstone anymore

xdd

[green lynx]

Now it's just sandstone

[golden leaf]

now you just go there and click rock

as god intended

[green lynx]

Draynor could be merged with Lumbridge's as well.

[timber rivet]

I mean I haven’t done it in months anyway, I’m just memeing

[golden leaf]

I think merging lumbby is too iconic

Having a free TP back to lumbridge will never change

[green lynx]

It stays in Lumbridge. Draynor's gets removed

That's how I meant

[golden leaf]

Draynor being removed is fine with wars existing

Also I can very much see them pushing the POH rework and including the jewellery box from OSRS

[green lynx]

Edgeville's is very useful for GE

[golden leaf]

Which would have the perma glory tp

[green lynx]

If you have agility

[golden leaf]

<- never thinks about GE

Also priff/max guild GE are better technically

Also max guild is criminally outclassed nowadays

[timber rivet]

On the other hand that’s 900/2900 levels later, minimum

[green lynx]

I'm not a full member of max guild yet. Still need 9 skills to get to 99

(Yes, even though I've been playing since 2006)

[golden leaf]

My cgim is nearly maxed

And thats after I took a 6month break

[green lynx]

And considering I'm afraid to play until I get to know the full scope of what these "integrity" updates are... it may take a while.

[golden leaf]

Well 99 maxed, not 120 maxed

[clever halo]

Im still really confused as to why people think removal of loadstones will do anything positive at all.

I think theyre a cool early objective that encourages new players to explore the world and provides a nice and honestly pretty fair reward.

[green lynx]

"Because they didn't exist back then/don't exist in OSRS" - the common argument I find on Reddit.

But yeah, it would be just friction for sake of friction

[golden leaf]

I agree with you, removing them does not fix anything with the game. But we have an annoying influx of very loud people on reddit who haven't actually engaged with this game in decades calling for change.

[lean star]

could maybe be tied to a quest or a total skill level (early low levels maybe)

some of them

not all ofc

[golden leaf]

^ that would be the only thing id think is appropriate

[clever halo]

Agreed. And it's not even major friction. The obstacle to navigating 75% of the world is like.... level 45 magic.

[timber rivet]

Being brutally honest, there’s no point to making RS3 features closer to OSRS just to attract those players-they’re already paying members. I know the devs aren’t just making an OS clone but it’s becoming much closer.

[clever halo]

I think adding some lowww level l/exploration unlock requirements for them that encourages further exploration is fine and kinda neat.

[green lynx]

I agree. Membership is shared anyways

It needs new players if they want to increase revenue from membership

And a bunch of these "integrity updates" have nothing to do with attracting new players. Sure, stuff like TH removal, less daily stuff... that I understand. But some of the rest...

[lean star]

this is totally not like osrs, i don't think you've played osrs enough in that case

[timber rivet]

On the other hand, people complaining about their 1 hour afk, 2.5 million XP thieving being nerfed need to reconsider.

[lean star]

and never forget the roots, you played the game for 19 years like... 2007 scape is different to todays runescape

[golden leaf]

Nerfing the xp/h on afk thieving is fine, but making afk thieving non feasible (still waiting to see how the changes actually work) is bad for the game.

[timber rivet]

His whole argument is he didn’t like 2007 scape as much as he likes today

[golden leaf]

AFK thieving shouldnt be 1.5m+ xp/h

[lean star]

that doesn't mean that we should get rid of everything since, runescape has become a far better game imo, far more to do in endgame like PvM etc, the graphics are an improvement etc

[clever halo]

The Thieving stuff is ridiculous honestly.

People are also missing that it's not fully nerfed. The oblivious perk still exists.

[lean star]

even osrs is different from 2007scape today

[golden leaf]

But If I want to sit on a pickpocket mob with every unlock in the game and be able to 100% afk for 10mins I should be able to, even if it means having garbage xp/h

[lean star]

the biggest offenders imo were mtx and dailyscape and thats exactly what is getting rid of rn

[lean star]

i think i'd rather have that then dailies

but there is a fair point

i just don't want to return to where thieving or pickpocketing isn't worthwile to do

[green lynx]

Reverting Cook's Assistant to be able to be completed in seconds is just pointless to me.

[lean star]

it's like a really good skill for ironmen rn

[lean star]

its a pointless quest also honestly

its a nostalgia quest

[clever halo]

1 reddit post caused that- which is kinda insane. A real non-issue.

[lethal meadow]

tbh buying all the items on the ge takes about as logn as it would just running around lumbridge to get them so it's whatever

[lean star]

a new account cannot complete it in seconds

make a new account on a f2p account, and tell me how long it took

(when they change the quest)

[green lynx]

Well, yeah. I think it was the only old quest that was remade without actually being "remade" like some other quests.

[lean star]

one, you buy from GE
two you get the items and give to cook

[timber rivet]

Jerks entrepreneurs in Lumby saying “give me a bond and I’ll give you egg flour milk”

[lean star]

cooks assistant is often the first quest you complete

you don't have 1500 gp to buy pot of flour from GE lol (or culiniramancer chest)
you don't have varrock lodestone unlocked

for a lot of quests and lets not lie, we pre-buy items before doing the quest looking up the wiki what we need for the quest, so why should it be different for new players?

[green lynx]

Well, that's my point. A new player looks a guide, buys the three items and then the quest is completed in matter of seconds. I wouldn't say it's really a sign of integrity considering getting these three items is the plot of the quest

Same with old Imp Catcher and old Doric's Quest

[lean star]

what probably happened in leagues is that many ppl picked up the egg, pot of flour, bucket of milk before starting quest then talk to cook to start quest and are confused why the items they had didn't count

[timber rivet]

The in game quest interface also tells you exactly what you need, unlike OSRS.

But OS quest skippers get QHelper which is far more egregious

[lean star]

and thats clearly behaviour from ppl who have done this quest 10+ now basically

[green lynx]

Yes, and it's not the game's fault if they don't pay attention. So we shoudl remake The Restless Ghost too if some players immediately ran to Wizard's Tower?

Searching for non-existing basement=

[lean star]

a new player might not even know there is rs3 wiki

[golden leaf]

Wiki's in game are so well known I would be shocked

[lean star]

a new player probably doesn't pre-buy the items

[golden leaf]

Unless they are very young

[timber rivet]

You still get a basement for Rune Mysteries and Memories but it’s a fair bit different from OS

[lean star]

it's 2 minor fixes to quests that with or withot the change take 3 mins to complete

even if pre-buying the items or pre-gatehring them you still did the effort

[timber rivet]

There is a wiki button right on the chat box to be fair

[golden leaf]

Wiki button

[lean star]

it's just the order that is messed up

[green lynx]

Or if somebody showed up at Wizard Mizgog with four regular beads? The quest still has same name. Should this one be remade as well for the sake of those players?

[golden leaf]

in the quest journal

[lean star]

yea i'm sorry i use wiki but i don't use wiki for cooks assistant lol

like.

[green lynx]

Good thing Rune Mysteries has completely different start point...

[lean star]

i don't need a wiki for that quest

i really am glad with the quests that got modernized

that was a good change

stolen hearts/diamonds in the rought. Perfect.

[timber rivet]

Modern RMyst was probably my favorite quest in F2P, even more than Dragon Slayer.

[lean star]

only problem with rune mysteries is that it isn't a very rewarding quest

but its a good quest agreed

[timber rivet]

Fate of the Gods has got to be in my top 3 member quests

[green lynx]

Stolen Hearts/Diamond in the Rough are great examples why I prefer RS storytelling...it's one of the earlier examples where NPCs are really characterized as fleshed out characters

Same with Rune Mysteries

[lean star]

those 2, ozan quest line, restless ghost, priest in peril, vampyre slayer, maybe demon slayer for me

although demon slayer is abit of a joke

the vampyre too

[timber rivet]

Nah Draynor still messed me up at level 10 when you can start at lv3

[lean star]

one piercing note is also pretty good and finally has a proper reward

death of chivalry is good too but has an annoying boss fight type of thing. So it's a bit too much scripted for me (same for demon slayer)

[green lynx]

(Reminder that Count Draynor is the youngest of four Drakan siblings)

[timber rivet]

Basically all the reworked F2P quests are great.

A Soul’s Bane rework when

[green lynx]

The Needle Skips was by far the biggest (positive) surprise of any quest I did

[lean star]

i did not like that one

[green lynx]

It was promoted as this bottle quest but I had no idea it would get as deep as it got.

[lean star]

thats also a bad one

just very outdated

[green lynx]

Not to mention it was not standalone quest at all. It very soon tied into Elder God Wars

[lean star]

desperate measures was pretty good (the long one in anachronia)

[timber rivet]

Yeah I loved TNS, I did it guide-less on Leagues (then looked up the rest of the words for the lamp lol)

[green lynx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIOkRpodUqw

I know many players play without music but as soon as I reached the ground for Needle Skips and this music began to play, I knew this quest will be something special for me.

[lean star]

one piercing note has good music

and song from the depths

[timber rivet]

Kerapac, Hermod, and Zuk boss fights are all bangers. For Zamorak I blare Through the Fire and Flames though

[green lynx]

And yeah, promoted as "murder mystery"... I went into it with totally different expectations but I was so glad I was proven wrong.

[lean star]

i'm glad they actually decided to do more quests again

rs3 used to have a bit of a quest drought

[timber rivet]

gun boss with America FK Yeah music

[lean star]

but the pace has increased again

[green lynx]

And by some miracle, they managed to merge the "changing the past" time traveling with the predestination time traveling (which I love) in this quest.

[lean star]

predestination?

[green lynx]

The 2017 to 2020 was rough regarding quests. I feel that after Sliske's Endgame, they didn't have the next story planned.

[timber rivet]

They could do so much with the World Gate and the Needle together. Too bad Kerapac broke it…

[green lynx]

"You can't change the past. It all happened the way it was always supposed to"

[timber rivet]

Plus The Mirror duplication of matter and anima, but it only ever got used as a weapon to kill V

[lean star]

i think the consensus at the time was that players did not intyeract with quests enough

i think they should rework a few quetss, certainly not all but some could benefit from it

[green lynx]

Up to Sliske's Endgame, it was relatively targeted story. Then 2017 and 2018 just threw in some continuations of fifth age quests or standalone quests. It was Desperate Measures which began to set it back on track.

[lean star]

ichtlarin's little helper for instance

[hot comet]

...that was fun though?

(ok, the mazey bits were... mazey bits)

[green lynx]

They should completely re-do Salt in the Wound 🫢

[lean star]

probably the high requirements, the difficult battle and the fact that few ppl replayed the quests

but it was a good quest i agree

[timber rivet]

I joined in 2023 ish and pretty much speedran quest cape, they are my favorite content in the game

[timber rivet]

In game dialogue already exists mocking it, so it’s a canon event now

[green lynx]

Yes, and also, quests took hell of a long time to be implemented into the game during that time... at least I recall reading about it for Desperate Measures. Seems they found the way to get them in game easier now.

But I think there was also some block on storytelling after Sliske's Endgame

[lean star]

there are like 150 outdated quests, i think some could be reworked mainly the desert ones to sell the region more as a modern area. All of it, because so many updates since have been there: gwd2, menaphos, amascut and because they already did rework 1 with al kharid quests

there is a bit of discontinuation issues, mainly with ichtlarin

[green lynx]

What if we never actually got free from being possessed by Mother Mallum? That everything that happened after was just an illusion and we're in fact still in that cave...

[lean star]

and a quest like desert treasure is extremely outdated

or tourist trap with the darts lol

[green lynx]

I find it a bit funny how OSRS has this trend of calling several sequels (....) 2.

Desert Treasure 2
Dragon Slayer 2
Monkey Maddnes 2

[timber rivet]

I missed the world events by like 7 years and there still isn’t a single miniquest that tells me what happened. I spent so many hours wiki diving to read about them.

[green lynx]

I'm surprised the elf finale wasn't Mourning Ends Part 3 there

[lean star]

can do same with some mahjarrat, early elves ande arly myreque quests since these all tie into end game quests you want to do

stuff like "clock tower" i mean you don't have rework quests like that, they're fine as they are and are irrelevant and unimportant

[green lynx]

Clock Tower needs some better reward than 500 gp.

[lean star]

for some quests just making the boss more EoC friendly would be great

[timber rivet]

Even a whirlwind tour something like Tales of the God Wars would suffice but there’s nothing…

[green lynx]

Yes, I think quest bosses need to be rebalanced to fit more in modern combat. Some more mechanics and such.-

[lean star]

yes

but i'd rather have it not scripted

[green lynx]

Not just made to hit harder, more to fit in game itself

[lean star]

exactly

like they did with elvarg

[timber rivet]

Echo of Jas in One of a Kind spamming Asphyx and Omnipower with no respect for adrenaline or cooldowns 💀

[green lynx]

Yeah, Elvarg is tough

Human NPC quest bosses could use EOC mechanics and such

And some bigger bosses from old quests could have area attacks and such like more modern bosses do.

[timber rivet]

And yet Sigmund still gets 100% prayers and ignores “drop prayer” abilities unlike Akrisae

[green lynx]

Yeah! Those prayer mechanics need to go

In bosses

[timber rivet]

Even Smite doesn’t work, you have to ancient mace spec

enchanted sapphire bolts

[green lynx]

Anyway, see you all tomorrow. Should wrap up with Discord for today before I overwhelm myself.

[timber rivet]

Plus Sigmund cheats even if he had permanent Devotion, you can use a DoT ability then swap styles and he’s still immune

It’s more like perma Barricade

[rapid cobalt]

Such an interesting quest too! It gave me big ||Her Story|| (another game title but kinda spoils what the quest is) vibes. I cheated on the ||full completion|| (spoils scope of quest a bit) + on leagues mode, but had a great time with it when going in blind the first time. ^^

[lean star]

what i don't really like for quests is holiday-themed quests

but other lore, grounded down or high fantasy i both like

for cooks assistant i just don't really care about the change, but i would like it if some of the older quests got a rework (tougher boss fights) or that it fits better in what rs3 today is. Maybe the osrs ppl wouldn't really like that, but just for continuity reasons. (they have their quests in osrs, so most of them still would exist)

[rapid cobalt]

Prob's oversharing a bit but /shrug Here's some more quest thoughts:

I'm kinda torn on the holiday ones. I liked most of them though; they're simple and short. I think it's the time pressure more so than the quest I didn't like? "Complete this within 2 weeks or else miss out forever" FOMO kind of makes me actively disengage even though it's supposed to have the opposite effect.
So I like that more recently, the quests come back every year for those who haven't done them. I'm also glad that Early Bird bonuses for quests have (I think?) been scrapped as that added pressure to keep up or catch up for that same FOMO reason.

I like the experimental standalone ones eventually. Like, I hated every moment of Broken Home my first run (don't do good with horror) and a speedrun for full completion makes it even worse... but think of it kind of fondly now weirdly 😂
I also like going to new places and exploring. Like Underground pass putting me out in the elf lands or Priest in Peril poppin' me up in Morytania. No big bad boss looming, just new areas to explore.

One thing I REALLY don't like about quests and something that I experienced in Leagues recently is the whole fifth age/sixth age continuity problem. I get that it's incredibly hard to design for but the world being in the 6th age, even if a player hasn't experienced the events that lead to that is incredibly confusing.
Some 6th age quests don't have the events that lead to them as pre-requisites.
Some series (or even in-world things that can be stumbled on accidentally) will reveal major things that the player shouldn't know from other series or even non-quest
I get that is something that's REALLY hard to cater to and design around esp. given the amount of history the game has and have no idea how to solve it, but wanted to mention 'cause although it's not really early game balance, it's sometime early-game experiences that impact the whole experience.

[lethal meadow]

Most holiday things last like a month though 🤷‍♂️

[tropic hamlet]

Holiday events lasting longer (in this format) is not a good thing though. The fundamental issue of having people grind relentlessly for a chance at black santa hat and then extending that for a longer period of time just makes the burnout worse. Holiday events should be short and sweet. You go in and do a short, funny quest then get some seasonal items, all good vibes.

[lean star]

It's fine that the quests can come back, but i just don't think the quests really fit the rs3 lore and world, with the exception maybe of Broken Home (which also doesn't fit the RS3 world either but at least has more depth in it, it just isn't really a RS3 type of quest but it is a pretty good one). I just think we have enough of these quests right now, we don't need a christmas quest every single year in a game that adds maybe five quests a year. There is a valentines quest, a halloween quest, several christmas ones, a easter one, an another autumn one, it's more than enough.

the holidays also make the RS3 world actively look uglier, esp the easter one, like the eggs and the presents around every tree... . I suppose it's fine now that most of them got restricted to a portal, they indeed take too long though, i don't want to be reminded of christmas on 5 january. It has passed, it's 1 day, i'm being continuously reminded it's christmas when sometimes i just my play game to escape into the world it has to offer and not to be reminded of holidays.

[novel gyro]

I wouldn't really call them ' holiday themed'. The closest I can think of is Violet is blue II with the direct reference to Christmas.

Spooky doesn't have to mean Halloween and love doesn't have to mean Valentine.

[lean star]

the ones that don't ahve a number, heartstealer, broken home, vilolet is blue, vbiolet is blue too, myths of the white lands... It's too much

esp christmas

[clever halo]

Extinction is Easter themed if you think about it.

[lean star]

4 april 2022, seems like it is but at least that fits the lore, so idm it there, i didn't have an easter vibe from the quest

[novel gyro]

Probably because of eggs, but it's not a direct reference to Easter.

[lean star]

oh yea i mean if it it's maybe a coincidence more

was already set up in prior quests

[rapid cobalt]

I'd love an anti-quest for a holiday event. Just a straight up reward for chatting.
"Hey Santa I'm here for the new quest since it's Wintumber and I know you need help!"
"Nah, not this time. Here's the new snowboard design and new coloured hat for this year"
"Is that it? No snow imps ruining decorations or sentient snowmen wrecking havoc or your son up to mischief?"
"Yeah, none of that, bye"

[lean star]

i'm not including that in my list of examples

some easter eggs i'm fine with

[clever halo]

I'm meme'ing

[lean star]

you knew the quest was released on 4 april?

around the easter period

[clever halo]

I did not actually- was mostly just going based on the eggs- but that is awessssome that it released around actual Easter too😂

[lean star]

this is why they shouldn't have done the 2 posts on the same day, ppl start to confuse the 2 and there is more negative reception "because afk pickpocketing nerf". They start mixing 2 completely different things to mix up their argument to create the perception that people are negative

whirligigs and afk thieving have nothing to do with skipping gameplay.

especially when both are basically nerfs

the early game balance is basically a list of all nerfs to late game players if you look from that perspective
and dailyscape - while it has to go - is also a nerf to them

[golden leaf]

RS3 subreddit also generally has a reading comprehension problem tbh

But that's probably endemic to reddit itself

Also dropping that blog on a Friday afternoon was probably planned, but leaves a bad taste >.>

[brittle plaza]

seen plenty of people think these two updates are happening the same day

Though, when they had two feedback posts up

both were upvoted

but the dailyscape one was significantly more upvoted

[lean star]

dailyscape happens later yea, early march, the afk pickpocketing/altar change/whirligigs/early agil buff/cache-div is for next monday

[clever halo]

Jagex should have posted these as two different blogs... even if still done on the same day.

[lean star]

which ones?

The merchant one, the merchant at least is constructive feedback with legitimate concerns, yes i get ppl don't want to do 100 hours of runespan and livid plant and stealing creation

[golden leaf]

Also seems like people who are in favor of daily scape removal (generally most people) are conflating those who dislike the early game rebalance as people who also want to keep dailyscape

[lean star]

but yes when people start mixing up the 2, it's what happens

[brittle plaza]

The feedback thread

There was one feedback thread for each topic

[golden leaf]

Livid farm is like 20 hours of one of the most eye wateringly boring minigames in runescape

[lean star]

i think criticism to early game reabalnce plans is a lot more fair and understandable (even if i get the point of the nerfs)

[golden leaf]

Would've been nice if they had said "hey here is some preliminary ideas we have for making this minigame not make you consider therapy"

[lean star]

yes and i'm sure the devs will have heard it

the problem is i think i would like a minigame overhaul discussion in the roadmap too like we need some discussion about some of those, i don't see it in the roadmap

[golden leaf]

Just saying "we're for sure gonna fix it this time"

When they have a very bad track record of adressing stuff

i.e. vorkath

leaves ppl doubtful

And feeds the negative perception

[lean star]

i think livid farm (& stealing creation) are the most urgent ones based on merchant and the insane runespan points imbalance (i don't think the runespan is the issue, i do think the balance of runespan is an issue as well)

[golden leaf]

The best worst part of runespan is that they made runic attuner from Gate actually really good

Even without soul altar runic attuner felt fast

Runespan will basically only be relevant until you can use attuner at 80 (82?)

Whats funny

CGIM cant even do stealing creation iirc

so the merchant was the only way we could actually get the points for the outfit

xdd

[lean star]

the 2 most upvoted ones i think i also agree with i think (a complaint about demonic skull and a suggestion to use law runes for charging lodestone teleports, even if players witha stack of vis wax should have a chance to use that vis wax/trade it in/be refunded one way or another, probably make it runespan points ig)

[golden leaf]

They've already said they're not removing any wax, just preventing ppl from getting more

So I would assume you can use wax for quick TP until you run out

My gim mates and I decided to max out our quick TP just in case they change anything about it

Also the runecrafting cape doesnt have a perk anymore

XD

its not like they can make it like OSRS where it prevents pouch degradaton since the 105 pouch is non-degradable

[rapid cobalt]

I didn't know there was a new pouch 😮 Time to go back into the abyss later.

[golden leaf]

https://runescape.wiki/w/Expansive_pouch

[clever halo]

It's soooo nice. You can yeet your other pouches forever

[rapid cobalt]

That's soooo good 😁 I've only been using the main 4, skipping massive mostly 'cause didn't like the fully degrade feature.

[golden leaf]

You can use the arch relic for massive btw

[rapid cobalt]

Wow I'm looking at the process of creating the expansive pouch and it's so many steps. I'll look further when I'm fully awake.

[jovial raven]

just get rid of the minigame entirely and redistribute the spells in other ways. Post quest unlockable for doing maybe an area task list for the lunar isle area or some other thing. In any regard, ditch the minigame mentality. Game already has far too many of them and most of them are just flat out dead abandoned content.

The biggest downside of minigames is that players have to stop playing the game and read guides, manuals and whatever poorly help systems in game to figure out how to play the minigame. Only to play it for the few unlockable things they were after, then they abandon it.

[hot comet]

Livid Farm is neat lorewise...

"when we say these guys and gals do everything with magic, we mean they do everything with magic dangit!"

[stark adder]

I agree, I feel the same.

[violet kite]

Nice update, support most of it.

1. Agility - nice to have higher early game Agility xp, but you seem to forget about brimhaven course.

2. Hunter Whirligigs - They understandable need a nerf in xp/h but the alternative training methods are terrible. the 60% nerf might also be a bit high consider this is an activity that requires full focus and clicking constantly. - Also add the option to lock your character in place when training it.

3. Farming Beehives - don't think they need a nerf, they are very slow XP. If anything normal farming require a buff, expansion or a complete rework with patches that don't take hours and days to finish or hundreds of new patches, so you can actually train the damn skill outside of PvM and daily runs.
   You can also buff all the un-used patches that gives basically no XP. who is farming hops? Allotment? Flowers? mushroom (before 103)?, cactus (before 95)?, bush (before 99)?
   If you are going to train farming, you should always be farming, not spend 15 minutes teleporting around the game and then wait until the next day.

4. Prayer - Why are you bringing PvP Griefing back? You just reworked how the Runecrafting skill works to remove it.
   If you want to change how effective the Chaos altar is, then change the XP it gives based on Wilderness diary completions.
   1.5x xp with 0 diary, 2x with Easy, 2.5x with medium, 3x with Hard, 3.5x with Elite. or in my opinion, make Hard 3.5x and Elite 4.5x to match other altar requirements and training methods.
   Also have you forgotten about Powder of Burials? It is significantly faster than using altars, it allows you to 1 tick consume bones. You can add infernal ashes or Tortured ashes for another 375k / 540k base xp per hour.

[lean star]

As well that for whirligigs the preparation you need to do is far higher than other hunter activities, gathering the flowers takes much longer than buying bird snares, box traps, ropes+small fishing net (even with the 25% buff) and they deplete fast, need continuous replacement because of the removal of the cheese. I think the cheese alone already makes whirligigs already no longer worth the effort, especially for ironman.

it's essentially far more than a +-60% nerf for us. And on top of that it's a very click intensive method that people just no longer will want to do since there is no reward (other than the powder of penance for lvl 90 whirligigs, as a moneymaker but not levelling method)

[lean star]

The beehives absolutely needed a nerf, that xp is disgusting.

allows you to skip POF entirely. You could do a week of beehives and then buy some chinchompas. That definitely needed a nerf.

-> for brimhaven arena, i think they may consider it a minigame?

But i agree that it also needs a buff.

[real trail]

they bringing pvp griefing back so people hate pvp more & POH update has more traction ./s

ive only ever seen ~6 players do demonic skull PvP & they are all lurers or 1items

thats not even a healthy update for people who enjoy PvP

[violet kite]

14K xp/day from beehives is not disgusting.

[lean star]

it is at lvl 17 lol

[violet kite]

You can also use seedicide at troll brutes for early combat training and get more than that per hour

[lean star]

I don't think someone with lvl 17 can get a seedicide

[violet kite]

it takes 2-3 hours of cabbage facepunch

[lean star]

can solve it by adding a requirement to cabbage facepunch.

But it is a highly specific type of gameplay, to do some 2-3 hours of cabbage facepunch to go seedicide some lvl 1 trolls when in the long run the POF is faster for much less effort

[violet kite]

having to spend 10.5 days to unlock chins is not exactly fast

[lean star]

they are a huge upgrade/boost for your POF. There are 2 ways to obtain it: casual hunter & trapper.

But i agree that the drop rates should be a little less punishing.

normal accounts can just buy them of course (and should).

[lean star]

yes but this is specific, this is quite a lot of thaler so you have to play quite a bit of minigames

like if you start on a new account few ppl i guess will do cabbage bonanza or do minigames in spotlight to get a seedicide, especially when beehives exist

(although maybe it becomes the meta for the early farm lvls idk)

just add a level requirement to seedicide & herbicide and the problem is solved

lvl 70 to use both

could do same for charming imp & bonecrusher, also lvl 70

[real trail]

imo dont understand why we are trying make it harder for low lvs to lv up, thought the whole idea was to catch them up to the rest of the playerbase so they could join content.

[lean star]

well the bonecrusher could maybe be an earlier level since there are pvm strategies around it and there are 3 tiers of necklaces you can combine it

[lean star]

because i don't think you should be levelling farming from lvl 1 using the seedicide on burthorpe trolls

or fetid zombies

[real trail]

i mean i can just do 1 warbands

and skip all of that

[lean star]

they ae removing warbands

[real trail]

o fr

[lean star]

i think it's a bit cheesy to use seedicide at lvl 1

idm the seedicide and herbicide and etc

[real trail]

yh true

[lean star]

but you should earn these items

or at least have passed the early game in those skills

if you then afk farming while slaying, then thats fine

[real trail]

u trap a ton of new players in early-game for HOURS tho

and ur never going to see them in late game

[lean star]

shouldn't be high level items but i don't think you should be using these for lvl 1-40 training

[lean star]

i mean, what is the point of an early game if you can leave it in "less than hours"

just make the low level methods less tedious and pretty fast.

to compensate a little

but farming rn is notoriously broken though in early game

[real trail]

yh tru i just leveled farm on my alt

[lean star]

you use violet is blue quest lamp then you use beehives until you can buy or hunt chinchompas

Like it's weird

[real trail]

bought a ton of beans off g.e & grew trees

[lean star]

they'll have to pay attention though that the meta for early game farming won't be.... vinesweeper

[real trail]

i mean

cant they just spend like $20 on some bonds and go buy some black dragons for insta growths

[lean star]

i think they should boost a lot of xp from patches like bush patches, allotment patches, mushroom patches, cactus patches etcetera

and tree patches

it's a timegated skill so it is okay to be fast. It is optional but i think trees can earn their spot as a fast method to level farming if pof isn't fast enough for you

while the others should have decent early game levelling methods, better than now.

[real trail]

only cost me like 140m to get 80 in ~ 2 hrs tbh

[lean star]

need lvl 92 for the dragons

[real trail]

they on g.e

u can just have someone trade u checked dragons

[lethal meadow]

It was never the idea to catch them up to the rest of the playerbase

[real trail]

seems silly

if we werent trying to boost low lv players to end game so they could do content y the xp rates so high?

wys

[lethal meadow]

It's even more silly to make them to skip 90% of the game so they can just play the last 10%

[real trail]

ah yes dont mind me ill twiddle my thumbs for 6 yrs while u catch up

me when i invite my friends to play rs3

[lethal meadow]

Doesn't even take 6 years to catch up 🤷‍♂️ these exaggerations makes it seem way worse then it actually is

[real trail]

yeah sure if ur playing 20 hours a day

[lethal meadow]

Maybe it takes 6 years if you play 10 minutes a day 🤷‍♂️

[real trail]

more like 2-3 hours a day

[lean star]

of which 1 hour is dailies

and thats why ppl burn out

and in the 1-2 other hours you need to do a wildy flash event

or a cache in early/mid game

[real trail]

cache & wild event is like 15 mins of content

[lean star]

every hour

[real trail]

not if u get off on ur 2nd hour

?

not trying to defend dailyscape activities rather off topic of what i was saying

not a fan of korean mmo slop either

but for people who have 3 hours of playtime doing dailies is going to be the only way u dont spend 6 years grinding

so unless u make up for that hella ur just going backwards

[lean star]

that is a flaw in the game design

i wouldn't want to play the game if all i had to do was dailyscape

i'd just switch to a different game

[real trail]

i mean u wouldnt want to play the game if all u did was afk skills either tho

[lethal meadow]

Not something people like to hear. But if they can't play to reach a goal then the game might not be for them

[lean star]

💯

[real trail]

they should play something else then so they can only do updates that benefit u ./s

[lethal meadow]

Updates they are doing now benefit me

[lean star]

should focus on making some skills less tedious/a bit faster

[lethal meadow]

Because they try to ensure the game stays alive to play

[real trail]

sounds rather contradictory but ok

[lean star]

possibility to afk stuff is less of an issue for me

[real trail]

ill take ur word 4 it

[lean star]

there are various degrees of afk'ing

full afk, semi afk, active, hyperactive/click intensive

as long active is more rewarded, it's fine for me

[real trail]

yer

[lethal meadow]

Less tedious sure. But is it really a problem of those skills being slow? Or are most of the others just to fast.

[lean star]

i don't mind skills being fast as long you actually are skilling

and not using dailyscape to advance (mini evil tree, divine yew trees for woodcutting)

i'd rather have magic trees being buffed for instance

and if they're worried about resources flooding the markets

xp based on tick rate

[dense gorge]

some are def too slow. Looking at you cooking.

[green lynx]

For me, who finds most enjoyment in quests and lore and dynamics in general, it's definitely a problem if the skill is slow but it's even worse if it's tedious. Just saying the game might not be for me is in my opinion quite petty gatekeeping. Some people dislike doing quests - should I also just tell them they shouldn't play? Sorry, no, I think it's unfair to just dismiss anyone like that.

[lean star]

i have far more respect for the argument skilling is too slow or tedious for many skills than for "we need dailies to bypass content".

if you afk pickpocket you are skilling, if you log in do your dailies, cut 2 logs and get 60k xp you aren't imo

[lethal meadow]

If people dislike quests and insist on having ways to skip doing quests because they want the rewards without doign the work then yes. The game isn't for them. Aslong as they are willing to deal with not having the rewards or benefits of X content because they don't want to do it that's fine

But asking and wanting ways to skip large parts of the game because you don't like them feels bad for the game in my opinion

[lean star]

you miss out on a lot of rewards if you don't quest and they can currently skip a lot of early game levels, imo definitely meta to do a ton of quests early game (in leagues less vital tho maybe).

so if you don't likq eusts, no worries but you miss out on, a lot

[green lynx]

At the end of the day, we can all quit with such mentality if we begin just dismissing everyone like that.

[lean star]

some quests are ig optional, but others are near mandatory

don't need "clock tower" at all

but you'll need jack of sapdes or you miss out on menaphos

you can technically play without menaphos still but

i think if playing a proper normal account you have to do like one third/half of the quests

at least

or you actively handicap hyourself

[lean star]

they shouldn't change it imo, it's part of the game. They already eased up some requirements for some stuff and made the fifth age quests not required for sixth and seventh age.

i agree though that maybe in leagues a bunch should be autocompleted potentially.

but outside leagues, no need. If you don't want quests, fine but you miss out on the rewards and that's something you'll have to live with.

[lethal meadow]

For leagues i can see why it is because temporary gamemode and whatnot to just unlock things without getting the xp completion rewards

[lean star]

yes and most ppl in leagues probably have done these quests enough times

and to make areas also easier to access without having to do a million quests

[lethal meadow]

Like how the current osrs deadmanmode has the lamps you can buy with points that just compelte them

[tropic hamlet]

Quest XP rewards are basically skips, I think jagex should retroactively buff quest XP rewards especially for stuff like Legends

• other early/midgame quests

[lean star]

buff?

[brittle plaza]

I don't want to dismiss those that go "I don't want to do X and Y content"

[green lynx]

I am glad in general that as I have a newbie alongside my main, mainly to replay quests and experience RS through modern day, I am glad I don't need to commit as many years as I had to on my main for gameplay in order to get through most of lore content - faster skilling, easier way to make money, run energy not taking forever to replenish and such. So I hell of appreciate QoL in general.

[lean star]

because they don't scale with leagues?

[brittle plaza]

But I don't think not wanting to do this and content is justification for adding skips

[lethal meadow]

Quest rewards feel weird. Because theres alreayd enough quests that can potentially skip you through alot of the content early on

[lean star]

slsike's edngame during x8 multiplier... 😂

10 mil XP!

[brittle plaza]

I think if you don't want to train dungeoneering for example, the result should just be you don't gain dungeoneering levels

The skills are representation of gaining experience doing said trade or skill

[tropic hamlet]

Not wanting to train DG is a sign of moral weakness

[dense gorge]

imo they either need to increase xp rates, or they need to make early pvm actually fun. Which needs an overhaul to make early gear more interesting and narrowing the gap with t95 gear, with set effects, a la necromancy.
It's an unreasonable amount of time invested to reach the fun part of the game for people that are looking to pvm, which is arguably the strongest part of rs3

[brittle plaza]

If you're not doing them, then yeah they shouldn't level

[tropic hamlet]

I've never met a good person who hates DG

[lean star]

i think quest rewards can often be powerful though but only the earlier you do them since they don't scale

if you play for six months and then do the quests then they are bad

[hot comet]

eh

the thing about the quests is

[lean star]

if you play waterfall quest day 1, to get instantly to 30 attack & strength, then its powerful

[brittle plaza]

I don't think we should have a scenario where people are 99 herblore and go "Oh I've never made a potion" or 99 dungeoneering and going "I've never done a dungeon"

Something has gone deeply wrong when thats the case

[hot comet]

either you already know about them, and therefore skipping the early game is probably not a big deal

[lean star]

but in leagues they're less good because they don't scale

[tropic hamlet]

This

[hot comet]

or you just find them eventually

[lean star]

legends quests lamp is fairly simple

4x agility

uh lol herblore

legends quest reward is actually good imo

although the level requirements are also already requiring a mid game account

[green lynx]

I feel that skills which are clearly unpopular with majority need alternative options to train. Not just xp buffs.

[lean star]

that takes time

i'm sure they're working on that

[lean star]

yea thats silly

[lean star]

and for 99 dg its common because sinkholes... and elite dungeons

[brittle plaza]

We know serenity posts are being converted into a training method for agility

[brittle plaza]

the biggest offender was dung hole IMO for dungoneering

[lean star]

even my herblore is 95 and its mostly quest lamps, peng lamps, troll invasion, herby werby & JOT aura (i've done a bit of casual herblore levelling but not much)

[brittle plaza]

Though that looks like it might be retired

[lean star]

and i'm ironman

[dense gorge]

I think they missed a huge chance to fix late game agility by not making heists give good agility xp

[brittle plaza]

Given that beach was confirmed retired back last summer (it was meant to be retired a couple years prior actually)

[brittle plaza]

ehhhhhhhh I'm skeptical to heist being both agility and thieving meta

[lean star]

but i do it becuase herb has a bit of a supplies issue instead of "i don't like herblore". On a normal account i would never use tehse on herblore

[tropic hamlet]

Eh no way heists should be multiskill

[brittle plaza]

I'd rather have the good xp in each come from their own activity

THey're already so good for thieving there is no reason to make them agility ontop

[tropic hamlet]

Great loot great thieving xp

[novel gyro]

Pretty sure beach returns, but reworked as a Summer event hub, much like the other 3 seasonal events are.

[dense gorge]

Would've needed to rebalance thieving xp, but still think it could've been neet

[novel gyro]

With nerfs ofcourse.

[brittle plaza]

Beach is dead regardless. There is a new summer event coming

[tropic hamlet]

Having that said, active agi is really important

[lean star]

on a normal account i would feel more of an incentive to extend wc and fishing and rc and all kinds of gathering skills with dailies.

on an ironman account the processing skills are the ones i tend to extend

[brittle plaza]

However other comments I've seen the last few weeks from jmods and the newsposts...

I think they're moving away from temp event focus

More perma content focus

[novel gyro]

Really, after setting it all up the past couple years?

You mean we could end up with 2 retiring Halloween hubs?

[tropic hamlet]

Thank god

[brittle plaza]

Less focus on long event grinds

[tropic hamlet]

Temp events made me quit

[brittle plaza]

Not retiring those hub necessarily

I dont think that

But maybe shifting how they work

[lean star]

for agility i think the bikes & serenity posts are fine for afk agility

[brittle plaza]

Halloween is ridiculous. Do you know its over a 70 hour grind for a fresh account for the reward shop?

[lean star]

maybe make it so that bikes no lonegr are capped

same for serenity posts

and i feel agility needs

• an early game course (al kharid rooftop, use the section that is used for stolen hearts)
• a mid game course (maybe southern menaphos/bit water themed)
• high level course in maybe one of the new areas in future aiming at crossing 100-110 and 110-120 gaps)

and make active agility actually fast. It's an active skill.

[green lynx]

I know that without bxp stack, agility is literally impossiblr for me to train on my main with the current xp gain in combination with tedious click-madness grind agility is (Luckily I'm already 99 so I thankfully have it behind me). So either there need to be BIG buffs or some other method that is less straining. These are the only solutions for me personally.

[dense gorge]

tbf I feel agility needs something that's not courses. It's just boring af

[lean star]

like over 1 mil xp/h should be what can be done once you're beyond lvl 99 probably

[lean star]

less of a deal if it's fast

and it's agility like...

idk what you can do with agility

[novel gyro]

Inevitable 120 agility in the future 👋

[lean star]

and get rid of wildy being meta, it's been meta for 20 years...

and no one wants the skull

[green lynx]

I'm not even remotely thinking of 120s yet.

[lean star]

no poin t adding a new mid level course when it's not the best one anywyas (looking at you hets oasis)

because of demonic skull

[green lynx]

Playing for 19 years and I first need to get stuff to 99 before I can think beyond that

[dense gorge]

some sort of arena, where the route is not constant, maybe even a skilling boss. Idk anything that isn't laps.

god I'm describing brimhaven nvm

[lean star]

i think the reason brimhaven arena wasn't mentioned is maybe because they plan on reworking it

[lean star]

yes you were lol

maybe let us go inside the agility pyramid

but that would also be a course

or basically ichtlarins little helper and temple of senntisten quests

and missing my mummy

the desert has actually quite a bit of those

[dense gorge]

repeatable mourning's end p2 for agility xp, surely gamers will be happy xD

[lean star]

*desert treasure instead of temple of senntisten

i think a course is fun for like 20 mins and then it no longer is, i just think it's much better for it to be fast or either for it to be dynamic (then you think of a minigame like shifting tombs kinda)

but there are lots of ppl that don't like shifting tombs either

problem with shifting tombs is that it isn't purely agility

[green lynx]

Whatever they do to agility, they must not mess with run energy. Like... at all.

[lean star]

it's a very hard skill to make fun honestly

and i think just dramatically boosting xp rates is an easy way to fix it, maybe coupled with a few new courses.

like agility would make sense as one of the fastest skills in the game

but rn its one of the slowest

[green lynx]

Give me less tedious way with much better xp gains and I'll be fine.

Than current xp

[lean star]

like every course at least be doubled, at least.

and some more than that

for anachronia can increase lap rewardd ramatically

so that doing sections aren't meta.

but that you want to do the entire lap

[green lynx]

Because there are very very few skills I had to fully rely on bxp but agility was one of them.

[lean star]

i can totally understand that

but the bxp isn't the offender, it's agility that just is so bad. Even with bxp its not fun.

[green lynx]

Yes, that.

[dense gorge]

ngl, slowly lamped/daily challenge/dummied my way with agility

[hot comet]

agility is just both of "not engaging" AND "not afk"

[lethal meadow]

And has 0 reward for training it outside of just hitting 99 for max cape

Except for the occasional niche shortcuts most people almsot never use anymore

[green lynx]

Bxp was a precursor I could even commit to training. I still didn't want to lamp anything so bxp+pulse cores via oddment store were my way.

For agility

[rapid cobalt]

Were there any agility courses where you thought "this is actually fun"? For me, it was the Prif one with the cool animations and it was engaging with the shortcuts and toggling velocity on / off so it triggered on an obstacle I didn't like.

[hot comet]

not for long

none of them are fun enough to be a movie

[lean star]

on my ironman i see it as a waste to do that so what i did:

• beeline quests that give agility xp so that any reward from daily challenges is already scaled to a better level
• choose agility in multiple choice xp rewards unless theres a smarter option for ironman (like herblore)
• circus every week
• use my surefooted aura to do 40 mins agility levelling (which is what i did once i unlocked hets oasis every day until lvl 75 priff, also getting pit events for outfits), usually with lots of music to distract myself from the mindnumbing grind.

[hot comet]

and the training is long enough that they're several movies

[lethal meadow]

Priff was "fun" because i could adjust the camera angle to be just perfect to not have to move my mouse and just click away to do it

[lean star]

i think i like hets oasis most

but i've never done agility as a whole (very close though now, can boost for it but i haven't)

i still hate it, but at least i can do it, i just can't see myself doing any others 💀

[green lynx]

Priffdinas was less bad for me.

[lean star]

the problem with hefin is i couldn't get the xp rates from hets oasis, unless its vos.

[rapid cobalt]

One thing I think would be a great addition is adding the lap timer to all courses like how anachronia has.

[lean star]

so i returned back to hets

[dense gorge]

Honestly don't really mind anachronia, the xp is just too slow

[lean star]

and i'm not skulling myself for wildy

and without skull i can't get the xp rates either i get at hets oasis

[rapid cobalt]

Oh really? I feel like that one has the best exp.

[dense gorge]

Yeah, the thing is I wouldn't touch any of the others with a 10ft poll

[green lynx]

Mining can get monotonous for me but at least I know I'll earn some cash afterwards with all the ores... so it's tolerable even without bxp stack for me. For example

[lean star]

it's very weird because hets, wildy and hefin are all situationally the best

wildy with skull
hefin with vos
and hets oasis with aura (without aura wildy or hefin are better, even if you use aura also for both but there are proportionally less obstacles to fail on to lose xp on)

but its all 70-85K range, diffefrences are small

[dense gorge]

Something about anachronia being longer just makes it feel better for me

[lean star]

maybe i just am more familiar with hets which is why it's better for me, also the crocodile RNG and the 10% xp boost from completing statue at hets probably just uplift it over the others

they all 3 should be buffed but wildy the least and wildy should have skull removed

since wildy is lvl 52 course, hets 65 and hefin 77

[rapid cobalt]

VOS kinda triggers the same "I must do this" feeling that dailies and wildy events do sometimes. I think it's fine esp. with it always being useful and with it being up 25% of the time but I know I've had the "oh it's Amlodd hour?! Time to drop everything and do some summoning!" or "Cadarn time? Time to drop everything and cut some trees!" feeling (again - not a problem, pls don't change VOS) 😅

[lean star]

yeah VOS is actually also kinda a hidden hourly

i don't usually look at it anymore

i try to ignore it

[dense gorge]

Make werewolf skullball great again!

[lean star]

although i kinda have to for harmonic dust and the harps

[rapid cobalt]

I made the artificer thingo for harps and have barely used it 😅

[lean star]

hefin is also like without VOS at its level worse than hets and wildy which is a bit weird since both are more low lvl courses

but ig hefin being more afk should be taken into account too

(relatively afk)

hets is also worse than hefin & wildy if you want pit events for agility outfit since a lap takes longer at hets

and you need a bit more setting up to complete the statue which can take a while

[rapid cobalt]

I don't even know how Het's compares to other courses in terms of exp 'cause when I was doing it, I wasn't in training agility mode so never checked the exp. I was gathering statue fragments to repair the statue.

[lean star]

idk but i got better rates there than wildy & hefin which means the wiki is wrong

but i have an aura and most ppl don't

and there is RNG with crocodiles

and theres a 10% boost from completing statue

[rapid cobalt]

It's probably the demonic skull since

[lean star]

i don't think you can fail an obstacle at hefin?

[rapid cobalt]

Nah no failures which is nice.

You do get lap multipliers sometimes for I think 120% exp which might factor in?

[lean star]

i can't get the 90k / h xp rates at wildy

but i get 81-83K xp/h at hets

unlike the 70k described

[rapid cobalt]

Do you surge / dive with mobile perk? Could be something like that speeding whoever math'd on the wiki up

[lean star]

hard to do at hets oasis, because there are a lot of sandstones in the way

maybe its that you can do at wildy idk

i right click obstacles so not to misclick and in advance

sometimes i can browse internet for 3 secs

since i only need to move the cam 3-4 times per lap

[rapid cobalt]

XD Very important to scroll next on your youtube short or whatever.

[lean star]

i think it's the aura that changes the meta

[rapid cobalt]

I tend to assume wiki rates are super optimal so am happy to get like 60-70% of it playing more casually.

[lean star]

because if i don't use aura, i fail too many obstacles, whichr educes my xp/lap

and of crocs, idk how the xp/hj is also calculated with rng like pit/crocs and whether the completed statue is incalculated or not

you can guarantee though a pit event though if you do 40 mins agility

even at hets

[rapid cobalt]

The Pit is a nice wee distraction. It feels too rare but idk

[lean star]

there is a luck mechanic that guarantees it, there's a bad luck mitigation mechanic for pit event

[lean star]

yea

i think it feels rare because it is rare at first

but in a longer session you can guarantee it because of bad luck mitigation

still not a good idea to try get outfit on anachronia course

[rapid cobalt]

I know I can go multiple hours without seeing it but good that bad luck mitigation exists

[lean star]

the shorter the lap the easier it is to get it

anachronia is a long lap

its always good to do it (also just for distratcion), even if you fail, you get enough xp that is better than doing the lap

also always gamble because you get more xp in the end

[rapid cobalt]

Ye 😄 Is like 116% or something iirc, did the math once upon a time.

[lean star]

yes

if you always get 2/4th if gambling its more

than 1/4ths and 4/4ths combined because there's no 3/4th, so doubling + halving will eventually come out on top of just status quo

because 1/4 + 4/4 = 5/4
2/4 + 2/4 = 4/4

so 125% i think

well you have to also add the 33% that your reward isn't changed

but still point made

[rapid cobalt]

I don't think that's quite right.
1/3rd is 1/2x (1/6), 1/3rd is 1x (2/6), 1/3rd is 2x (4/6) -> 7/6 of base exp when gambling.

[lean star]

1/4 + 2/4 + 4/4 = 7/4
2/4 + 2/4 + 2/4 = 6/4

so it's more like this, it'll indeed be 116%

[lean star]

thats probably the better mathematical notation

[rapid cobalt]

Math is weird and wonderful. Same result, different process. ^^

[quartz ridge]

Idk about that assumption — I don’t know that a majority of players have started over again and again on lots of different accounts

[lean star]

how many people did participate in leagues?

I'm sure there'll be some osrs players or returning players that participated in it

Leagues has some appeal for me too but i need a twist. And the relic itself just aren't enough for me