#Combat Styles Improvements - Beta Update 2

1 messages Ā· Page 2 of 1

solemn marlin
#

ok make the ulti less adren but not give the zuk cape effect for free :/

upbeat field
#

Oh trur

rotund granite
#

yeah I think the zuk cape change was reasonable

upbeat field
rotund granite
#

still need it to do lots of damage with the ults

upbeat field
#

As an example

#

Its just 1 less bounce

#

I can use overpower on my iron but its weaker

#

Etc etc

cinder lily
#

Zuk capes boosting the damage of those abilities alone is enough to warrant getting them. People fussing that they lost some benefits and shohld be compensated are overreacting.

upbeat field
solemn marlin
upbeat field
#

The zuk capes are still omega goated

#

And the adren cost drop should have been baked into more ults ages ago

tropic violet
#

yeah the less adr use buff is insane

#

like good

#

great for early mid i think

rotund granite
#

those ults weren't worth it before in earlygame

#

which probably wasn't great design

upbeat field
#

Gear shoukdnt define your rotation

#

It should amplify the one you have

cinder lily
#

Because 20% sunshine is absurd. Lol. I get it flowed, but 20% zerk would too, but its clearly busted if it were the case.

upbeat field
#

Its why i think we should decouple the zerk timeboost from havocs too

rotund granite
signal helm
cinder lily
rotund granite
#

gear like ezk and stuff wouldn't be as cool if they didn't change up your rotation

clever juniper
#

Feedback on Bloodlust Mechanic: the 15% crit chance on Assault is cool, but if you get no crits on it then it feels like a useless mechanic. The other three effects are all guaranteed, so I think I would like to see that one changed.

Maybe a guaranteed critical hit on Quake instead of a buff to Assault since Quake doesn't need a specific weapon type anymore.

signal helm
solemn marlin
upbeat field
signal helm
upbeat field
gritty spire
solemn marlin
#

i understand the idea behind making ulti like omni/overpower worth using in early game, but this entire updated is aimed to update range/melee/mage not indirectly make Necro even more op (skulls not will hit like a truck again with zuk cape)

upbeat field
#

Weapon specs are literally an ability that gets added to the rotation but a cape or a chest shouldnt warp an ability so heavily that you functionally cat do a real rotation without it

gritty spire
#

its a wholly unique thing to runescape

rotund granite
#

but yeah I agree with making zuk cape abilities more worth in earlygame

tropic violet
#

Just that the styles are the majority focus

upbeat field
#

In live game, death skulls is functionally dead without cape

#

This update changes that

signal helm
cinder lily
#

I wish ezk and lengs did something as impactful to rots.

signal helm
#

most t95 weapons have passives and/or specs that change rotation

upbeat field
signal helm
#

its not ā€œjust a specā€

cinder lily
upbeat field
#

Ik its not just a spec but most of those passives are built to feed directly into the spec

signal helm
rotund granite
#

bolg design was pretty good

upbeat field
#

Fsoa is the exception i can think of

upbeat field
#

In live game*

#

Cant speak on its presence in beta

cinder lily
# signal helm most t95 weapons have passives and/or specs that change rotation

Right, fsoa, both necro, and bolg do. But lengs really dont much. The passive at best impacts when you spec, but doesnt reward you much for capitalizing on frostblades. Then ezk is boring as fuck imo. Big whack makes happy chemicals, but for the rest of the rot you use it because the passive 12% is overtuned, not because its actually fun. It might as well just be a t110 2h with a big spec.

tall vale
#

Berserk for melee really needs to be extended at a base level and not just fixed to a set of armour thatā€™s already a glass cannon type armour. It needs to be universal just like swiftness and sunshineā€¦

cinder lily
#

Fsoa passive doesn't impact rots much, but still does. And it warps your whole rot for 30s after the spec.

upbeat field
rotund granite
#

ezk is definitely more boring compared to the other specs, but big specs and big damage are also pretty fun
going either way with the ezk would be fine imo

upbeat field
#

But yes decouple the 6s buff from havocs

#

20s is dogshit and zerk was bad as fuck in leagues as a result

tall vale
cinder lily
upbeat field
#

Use lunging comps or something idk

#

Its the SAME BOSS

cinder lily
#

But if they want to add a different passive to that slot in vestments and make it longer by default thats fine too.

upbeat field
#

but melee alone couldnt have gzerk as an ability

tall vale
#

Thereā€™s a lot they could do in general for boosting berserk duration, just so long as berserk gets brought up some and itā€™s not tied to the armour

cinder lily
narrow spire
#

idk why they dont try to tap into the fact melee has the most special attacks of any style.

if they created an 25% cost ability that could copy dragon specs it would reduce overall ability count a ton. then give players the ability to kit as they need. creating lots of unique choices and gameplay styles

upbeat field
#

Flurry reducing zerk cd feels pointless now also

#

Since ur gonna wait for meteor anyway

#

Like damn thats a good ability

#

Even pre buff it was damn decent

cinder lily
rotund granite
#

reducing cd of all abilities would be cool to sync them up again, but that'd be pretty op

cinder lily
#

Would it actually be OP?

#

Idk if it would be.

upbeat field
#

I thinj flurry shoukd boost duration by 1tick per hit

#

Instead of refucing cd

rotund granite
#

maybe it's the buff melee needs

#

it would mean you can do your rotation earlier, so more dpm

cinder lily
#

Base flurry could get the same with a lower max reduction.

upbeat field
#

Same general effect, no cd drift

cinder lily
#

Right, undoubtedly its stronger, but I doubt its broken.

upbeat field
#

Nah id be ok with it being greater onky

cinder lily
#

Just if theyre trying to make greater abilities not totally different from greater. Greater is greater, not different.

upbeat field
#

Bc i think zerk should just get a passive timer boost anyway

cinder lily
#

At least that seems to be the goal.

#

But drop zgs and ezk cd to 45, flurry does all melee abilities, and drop dba cost to like 40%. Let us fuck with that. If it sends melee to the moon, dial it back. But ffs let us try it.

tall vale
#

Also the conversation about bleeds being affected by berserk

#

Still toiling with the idea of bleeds shouldnā€™t cancel out other bleeds

#

In group situations

cinder lily
#

Agreed on group stuff, but I'm one of the few who doesnt mind that bleeds arent boosted. A class of ability thats strong, but doesnt get Juiced helps differentiate more from revo to manual. But they NEED to make it clear that they arent boosted.

tall vale
#

Hey, if eventually we can get the W on berserk being increased flat across the board even just by like 3-5 seconds without it tied to havoc armour, and maybe havoc buffs it a little more to be unique by another 2-3 seconds, Iā€™m happy

#

Itā€™s just crazy to me how if you have range or mage your ultimate buff is 38 seconds. Sure the EZK now is cracked, but general dps for melee isnā€™t great

cinder lily
#

If base zerk was 24s and havoc added 3s, thats still cool.

tall vale
#

Yes

cinder lily
#

I also think they should look at zgs. It could cost a bit more if needed, but make it 35% boost from 25%. Also, whether its a codex or not, add a version of old ezk back as an ability. Then melee has options to fill between zerks.

#

If the boss has time to cook, the bleeds could be better, but if phases or whatever are in the way, zgs could be preferable. That seems ideal to me.

tall vale
#

Yeah

#

Melee I feel like always gets the least love out of all styles

#

And people have been asking in the PVM community for YEARS that melee has its big time issues and this serk argument has been one of the big ones

north quest
#

is range better with beta

tall vale
#

All styles are at least somewhat better with the beta

#

If anything range is the best noticeable difference

north quest
#

splinter shots gona be good?

cinder lily
#

Pressing blow should be 7.2s cd. With tighter timing this allows 2 uses in a 60s rot. At 10.2, its effectively 1.

If they want to keep the current power level of the buffs, make it off 1 stack or remove the stack system and have it just buff the next. Could remain 10.2s then. If they want us to stack up, then make the buffs much better.

Also, its kinda fuckin shitty that the gloves of passage work on pressing blow now to buff the next ability AND bloodlusted buffs the next when most the bloodlusted buffs dont benefit the same kind passage does. Like hurricane sure, but thats not great for bossing. This just feels terrible imo. Unless bloodlusted stays so you can for example pressing, OP, then assault and boost both. But I didnt try that. The wording on pressing says the next ability.

I'd rather see adaptive go back to working with gloves of passage if they want to keep pressing and its followup buffs.

Not that it necessarily changes much, but I did see that bloodlust stacks fully off berserk and punish below 50%. That helps, but I still think this system needs a lot of work before it feels good.

hollow hill
#

xdd (1 fsoa sun)

2026-02-06-191110.png
molten bison
fluid mural
#

hey, what would people think of these two additions for melee?

give melee a buff food that lasts 12 minutes that gives slow passive bloodlust stacks, similar to darkness incantation or temporal anomaly

using bloodlust can be used to buff special attacks

hollow hill
deep basin
#

This update further concerns me that the devs are doing too much to magic that honestly just needed a lighter touch. Magma as a spender feels bad. It also feels bad as a non basic. Itā€™s a codex from an endgame encounter and sat very nicely on live as a strong basic ability to be used conditionally for building adren and whenever it can be pre-placed

Furthermore, deto filled a niche just fine as aoe early on. Its use falls off with levels and unlocks etc but removing it and revamping magma so heavily - an ability that comes quite late - to fill its role seems misguided

Kera wristwraps are still cooked in this beta version as well imo

graceful lava
#

I think some ablity id's got crossed. My bar is completely scrambled upon logging in. And a few abilitys donet even work

fluid mural
tropic violet
#

ik it was hitting close to that last week

hollow hill
tropic violet
#

oh live is going to pop off then

#

since they removed the 75% crit damage this patch

hollow hill
#

And I was doing a sub-par rotation I think

chrome kestrel
#

magma tempest has been gutted and i paid 430m for it a few months back SMH!?? ive not seen any feedback anywhere that would suggest it to now cost adrenaline?!

allow the bleeds to generate adrenaline again!

tropic violet
graceful lava
fluid mural
#

I havent had issue with barge

#

I did have to reslot everything to get them to work though

graceful lava
#

Oh. nvm in in a poh thats why

fluid mural
#

I just right clicked the cogwheel -> clear bar

graceful lava
#

Hate that

fluid mural
#

bit annoying yeah

hollow hill
#

And no haunt

tropic violet
#

tyty

grizzled karma
#

I think I saw a comment about blast diffusion boots which was like ā€œweā€™ll update them laterā€ - but if zuk capes were updated given the changes to ultimate abilities, why werenā€™t blast diffusion boots updated too if youā€™re removing deto? Arenā€™t they just useless now?

deep basin
#

No point updating items when the abilities arenā€™t even set yet

hollow hill
#

Hopefully deto gets kept šŸ™

deep basin
#

Agree

#

And magma gets big time reverted hopefully

#

And generates adrenaline again prayjj

deep robin
#

The zuk capes they're more confident in, but if deto would be restored in next beta step making an alternate blast diffusion boot effect right now would be a waste of dev time

tropic violet
#

its not going to be added to live but watch this

#

@hollow hill

shrewd oriole
#

Lost a comment i was reading about about pressing blow being only able to be used once per min, theres notes (im at work so i havent tested yet) about zerk and punish granting bloodlust stacks as well. Maybe theres a key rotation that allows for ~3-4 pops per minute.

grizzled karma
cinder lily
shrewd oriole
# cinder lily That would be mine and I amended it to reflect that. But I still maintain the bu...

I agree that theres some lackluster buffs unlike the amazeballs that magic got. But like everyone always says melee is like the red headed step child. But the pressing blow is at least a good start and a direct upgrade from the previous beta earlier this week. I think theres sone tuning to get in but its getting there. Slowly. Maybe if one more basic generated a stack that would help fill in the gap.

royal shale
hollow hill
cinder lily
tropic violet
# hollow hill Wtf cracked šŸ¤£

they overtuned (its actually bugged in beta but im trying to not say it directly) rune claws. jmods actually did a game of which item is it with pvme for a bit

#

kek

shrewd oriole
#

Im not comparing all of melee to all of magic, more like just runic charge to pressing blow. The magic variant is much more clean. Pressing is kind of all over the place. But that doesnt make it bad just odd

hollow hill
#

Wtf, I didn't even know rune claws had a spec

graceful lava
#

I feel like pressing blow should be a consumable stack. Can stack up to four and then use them one at a time instead of havin to wait for max stacks.
Cause as it is now im not guna get to 4x stacks before i use zerk and max out my stacks anyway.
Maby increase the cooldown of the ability and let us use stacks as we see fit.

wild sapphire
#

Bruh they try to compensate berserk nerf by raising the damage reduction taken which is stupid because you can just pop devotion before berserk activate. Its a straight up nerf

#

U can pop limitless debilitate as well

flat rampart
wild sapphire
wild sapphire
tropic violet
#

you should, basics damage amplifies things.

cinder lily
flat rampart
tropic violet
#

especially since this is an early game update

flat rampart
wild sapphire
#

Lol none of u guys know how to spam eof with free adrenaline from meteor strike or natural instinct combo

#

Its a straight nerf

tropic violet
#

ok, first off. you literally dont have a scope of whos in this chat

wild sapphire
#

I hybrid šŸ’€

tropic violet
#

ok so mid lvl gameplay

#

average even

wild sapphire
#

Nawh I have master level achievements

tropic violet
#

hmm so a 10%er

wild sapphire
#

Top 1%

#

10*

tropic violet
#

anyways since you arent the big fish here. its ok to have an opinion but drop this im better than all of you mentality

#

literally nobody cares

#

there are literally GM achievs players talkin in this chat

wild sapphire
#

Lolol ur obv not from w1

cinder lily
#

They also said they raised the values on specs. Assuming its the same type of formula damage should be at minimum comparable to zerk, only we get a lot more outside too. Saying they gutted zerk is just wrong.

flat rampart
#

Reading comprehension / multiplication issue. idk what to tell you dude.

deep basin
cinder lily
#

Now, I do think theres room to try stuff like making zerk 24s base and vestments add 3s. But... thats more to help smooth it and help melee catch up with the others, not to bring it back to where it was. They already did that.

shrewd oriole
#

The zerk and base damage changes were likely to help less technical players getting used to melee. Its less punishing now to mess up a rotation a little and more. Stable outside of zerk.

wild sapphire
#

They can just pop devotion and survive during zerk. Its dumb

#

And if u want soul split. Learn to flick

hollow hill
tropic violet
#

I did a check with pvme even they are saying its in the good change zone

wild sapphire
tropic violet
#

some obv say its technically a nerf

#

but overall its fine

royal shale
#

Base damage of every melee ability and spec increased by 20% or so, berserk damage multi reduced by 12.5% = 2.5% more damage inside berserk, 20% more damage outside berserk.

tropic violet
#

math is fun L0L

#

stuff gets crazy really fast

cinder lily
#

Some weren't bumped by 20%. Like assault deals almost exactly the same amount of damage as before. Not the point, but it looks like they tried to keep things roughly the same.

tropic violet
#

its like a ~1% loss for assault on a technical standpoint or something weird

cinder lily
#

Also things like dba would be a tad less for that first zerk too. But any lost during zerk is gonna be like 1-2% and we gain like 15% more outside zerk. Clearly a solid trade.

wild sapphire
tropic violet
royal shale
#

Oh no, 1% loss on melee when magic is like 15% stronger

tropic violet
#

this is for early game. your concerns about your own gameplay via hybrid is getting changed

wild sapphire
tropic violet
#

but its not going to be mega nerfed

#

this was directly talked about by jagex

amber spire
#

ranged feels horrendous

tropic violet
#

its a done deal. they want it to where you arent aggregiously op with hybrid while trying to maintain timers on speeds. - the vision

update currently. early game and early game ONLY

#

mid / end game is later this year

brittle dagger
#

like op

tropic violet
#

provide your feedback with something useful and leave it at that and drop this anger contest because of your 2m damage score

tropic violet
royal shale
# amber spire ranged feels horrendous

Horrendous as in ā€œmy live server rotation doesnā€™t workā€ or as in ā€œI gave it a fair try for several hours and still donā€™t like it.ā€

brittle dagger
#

I think the previous iteration of melee was better cause there was less adren to play with, think they've gone too far with meteor?

tropic violet
#

id argue its not too far but not enough things to adren dump imo

wild sapphire
brittle dagger
#

Melee rot is back to dagger spam

tropic violet
#

maybe both? both can be true

chrome finch
#

Anyone also dcing consistently after casting smoke cloud in beta?

flat rampart
chrome finch
#

I agree with the range comment at higher levels

#

This was my write up

Adrenaline & Basics: Ranged feels limited with only 3-4 basics. Removing adrenaline gain from Corruption and Frag Shot feels clunky.
ā€¢ Ability Value: Standard Basic Attacks currently outclass Snap Shot and Binding Shot in damage and Bolg stack priority. Snap Shot needs a buff to remain a relevant threshold.
ā€¢ Ultimate/Imbue Nerfs: Imbue Shadow losing its damage hit feels poor compared to Tsunami/Meteor. The 5% crit buff doesn't compensate for the loss of the live-game 8% RNG crit + Nami switch.
ā€¢ EoF & Specs: Adrenaline costs make Dark Bow EoF unusable. Without SGB/ECB, the EoF is just a stat stick. Even with 100% ECB uptime, damage feels ~20% lower than live.
ā€¢ Risk vs. Reward: Ranged requires high effort and zero healing (ECB) to still deal less damage than Necroā€™s passive conjures and sustain.
ā€¢ Glaives & Snipe: Imbued Glaives deal too little damage for the GCD. Snipe feels okay, but being capped at 0ā€“5 adren under Imbue feels like a punishment.
ā€¢ The Good: Deadshot redesign is excellent. Grico cooldown reduction is a great quality-of-life improvement for stacking.
ā€¢ Bug: Consistent disconnects occurring when using Smoke Cloud.

north quest
#

darn sounds bad

brittle dagger
#

How is a 45-55% ability beating a 135-155%?

zinc carbon
#

Range has too much adrenaline rn but more risk reward would be nice

royal shale
#

Imbue Shadows is still better than incendiary until 63% crit chance, which only happens for a few seconds right after rapidfire. Every other time in your rotation itā€™s better.
Losing the ability to stall tsunami for ranged is a good thing for game balance and also ā€œgame making senseā€

undone garden
#

Summoning should get polished to further support the new combat beta

#

For example that bug on blood reaver should create a new idea

cinder lily
undone garden
lilac owl
#

No matter what your thoughts on this beta are or what it will end becoming, I think every single person can agree that the live release needs to be delayed , Feb 23 isn't enough time for this to come out in a finished state . If we focus on things that everyone agrees on and communicate that i think everyone will be alot happier with the process , because i dont want rs to lose players because of a process cos i can understand people who would quit if the combat system of rs3 is effectivley in beta due to it being unfinished .

wild sapphire
cinder lily
hollow hill
undone garden
#

ok

chrome finch
#

Agree summoning would be super cool to see to go to 120

And for losing the nami stall I completely agree for balance thatā€™s fine but I donā€™t think it has enough reliable adren gain to consistently be using d bow/ multiple eofs

zinc carbon
#

Check here

#

Ignore the relentless proc, didn't take that into account

cinder lily
#

Classic "fix everything but change nothing"

undone garden
#

Creators get results when they are incentivized to take risks

wild sapphire
hollow hill
#

Accel pot tech Thisguy

zinc carbon
#

:3

#

(I ran out of necro runes)

undone garden
#

I miss when melee had the era of drain tanks

chrome finch
zinc carbon
#

Nope XD 3 dark/gloom bow specs is should be doable regardless tho

#

Deadshot is basically a second grico, gives you like 30 adrenaline

#

(btw the melee part of that rot is completely rng and reliant on ful procs XD on a consistent dba kill the time is still the normal 1:22 time)

royal shale
#

Iā€™ve used the t95 wands for at least a hundred hours on main. My ideas to make t95 wand camp at least a viable option in the beta (fsoa still way better of course but wands viable)

Make Sunshine increase burn damage as part of the ability (not requiring endgame gear like Tumekenā€™s Robes). With the removal of metamorphosis, burns no longer have a damage-boosting ultimate at all.

If Combust is going to stay a spender rather than a basic: make Combust hit every tick instead of every other, and reduce the Combust cooldown by half. That way itā€™s somewhat consistent as a spender rather than ā€œonce every 18 seconds then spend on wild magic or something.ā€

Make Temporal Anomaly resets act like wand resets and detonate the DoT. Currently itā€™s anti-synergy in terms of APM as you have to check the bossā€™s debuff bar to see if the damage is still active (TA reset, if you use it again youā€™re wasting adrenaline and/or a GCD) or if it was a wand reset (great, apply same burn immediately).

Kerapac Wristwraps are still in a weird spot as Dragonbreath and Combust donā€™t have a clear priority order. I know specific item effects arenā€™t being tweaked yet but something to keep in mind.

scenic oriole
#

is legacy combat going away with the removal of attack speeds on weapons?

royal shale
scenic oriole
royal shale
#

Thatā€™s the intended behavior for the Basic Attack changesā€”using Necromancy on legacy mode (I donā€™t know why but if you did legacy necromancy) the legacy auto attack does the same damage as on regular combat mode only using the basic attack.

scenic oriole
#

but why would youy use abilites if you could jsut afk with legacy mode

clever stag
#

We should remove legacy mode to show people rs3 isn't just turning into osrs šŸ˜›

scenic oriole
#

beta legacy mode is 100% way easier than abilities

#

on bosses too

royal shale
scenic oriole
#

its not tho

#

dmg scaling is off

royal shale
scenic oriole
#

eitehr way legacy mode with no attack speed make soul split make you perma immune to dmg

cinder lily
royal shale
zinc carbon
scenic oriole
#

musta changed with beta 2

#

in the first 1 was borken

lucid stump
#

DW GCD change is horrible, and inconsistent depending on abilities you use. adaptive strike? reverts gcd to standard 1.8, and other abilities did too. this feels like absolute trash bouncing from 1.2 to 1.8. just leave the 1.8 gcd and dont mess with what works.

you also didnt address limitless?

scenic oriole
#

what was the point of the attack speed change? why not jsut adjsut stats on weapons

#

to achieve same dmg from basic attacks

lucid stump
#

the attack speed change feels so bad

#

like, the games broken bad

viscid horizon
rotund granite
#

different length abilities have always existed like deto taking 4t+ with boots to charge, channeled abilities taking like 8t, snipe

#

things taking 2t is gonna take getting used to, but I think jagex embracing the core part of the game, the 0.6s tick system, is a good thing

scenic oriole
rotund granite
#

it's not that great tbh cause there's clear limits, but that's what the game's built on and it's gonna take lots of money to improve

#

lots of players kinda internalise that 0.6s tick system at this point, so I think you could build off it

scenic oriole
#

you could always halve it and double actions across the game over time to normalize. 0.6 is like the same as 600 ms

#

playing combat like this turns me off in modern games. if thats what eoc v2 is trying to do...modernise

rotund granite
#

lmao there's probably so much spaghetti that'll probably break if you were to speed up the tick system

scenic oriole
#

send eoc v2 then do a v3 to modernize the tick system over the course of 2026

formal ibex
#

did jagex make 'auto setup bar' more reliabe in beta?

rotund granite
#

yeah it's just my guess that it's gonna take years for devs to chase down all the spaghetti to make the tick system faster, but I really have no idea why

#

the slow tick system is definitely one of the things that turn off new players

scenic oriole
shrewd oriole
#

Imagine going from .6 tic to .01 tic and everything in game was just 599% faster or however that math works? Welcome back to through the fire and the flames GH3

scenic oriole
#

couldnt they just create a 2nd tick system designed jsut for combat actions?

#

and leave the rest of the game intact?

formal ibex
#

spaghettiiiiiiii

#

for dayzzzzzzz

marble notch
formal ibex
#

anyone got a decent revo for range?

#

im too dumb to undrstand how to ordere them :3

scenic oriole
#

revo for melee feels usless. you never build up to 100% lol

formal ibex
#

not good lol

scenic oriole
#

sat here for like 10 min closest i got was 87&

#

87%

rotund granite
#

revo is pretty broken, and probably will be until abilities are finalized, unfort

formal ibex
#

am i just stupid or does the game not teach how to order revo abilities?

rotund granite
#

nah the game doesn't really tell you

#

people go to wiki and pvme, which isn't super great design

#

that stuff should be in the game if possible

formal ibex
#

They said auto bar setup was designed to be bad to make us reorder

#

be nice to fi that

#

fix

scenic oriole
formal ibex
#

see i sort of learn what abilitis work well together

#

but when i put on bar it never works

#

thats where i get stuck lol

#

my disabled brain cant keep up with manual

scenic oriole
#

i also think they should go away form multuple builder and multiple spenders...

raven junco
#

they have said they want to make the auto bar more revo friendly

#

but that's for post beta

#

when the changes are finalized

formal ibex
#

ah ok

scenic oriole
#

ultimate should have its own fill up bar

formal ibex
#

wasnt sure if they implemented or not

rotund granite
#

tutorials and guides should come with the combat beta, but jagex is prob gonna let the players figure it out for ourselves

formal ibex
#

id love for the game to teach me whats right, not rely on pvme or wiki

#

as much as i apppreciate it, copying doesnt teach me

rotund granite
#

yeah for sure

scenic oriole
#

id probably understand it more if the adrinaline was decoupled from ultimates

#

adrinaline should be for thresholds and ultimates should have its own bar or something designed to fill up via all actions

formal ibex
#

wuthering waves has really good ways of teachig each characters abilities and teaches combos in a cool way

scenic oriole
#

or ultimates should just be a CD....remove resource managment from it and jsut make it time management

formal ibex
#

wish jagex did something like that

#

and rewards for completing/doing well

rotund granite
#

jagex should definitely look at the new player experience for pvm

#

having more guides baked into the game would be good

raven junco
#

telegraph and adren bar pass!!!

formal ibex
#

im a player of 25 years and it confuses me, i have bis everything

#

but all the changes over years confuses me

#

i learn a style then they change it lol

#

.<

scenic oriole
#

to many things fighting for 1 resource

formal ibex
#

im disabled so assume its just my brain

#

lol

#

thats why i wish abilities triggered with stacks so it helps manage it all

rotund granite
#

nah it is a constant game of keeping up

viscid horizon
scenic oriole
viscid horizon
#

Neat.

formal ibex
#

i struggle with tooltips wording - it isnt clear especially all the random numbers and %

scenic oriole
#

inspiration is how games can stay relevant

formal ibex
#

again i put that down to my brain lol

#

necro was first time i truely understood a style and found it manageble

#

so many clear visuals

#

like stacks showingon character

#

abilities synergy is very clear

scenic oriole
#

i still think EOC v1 should of taken inspiration from diablo vice wow. less abilites and more custom interactions

formal ibex
#

I still wish we had basic macros tbf

#

so many players use macros

#

but jagex arnt clear on the rules

scenic oriole
#

macros are in rs3?

#

like wow macros?

formal ibex
#

it saysagaisnt rules, then jmods say its your disgression

#

so confusing

#

i dont know wow

#

but liek linking abilities

rotund granite
#

there definitely are people who macro in endgame pvm

formal ibex
#

so 1 input = 2 outputs

rotund granite
#

the people I know probably don't macro though

formal ibex
#

like for arc glacor - i struggle to do the canon mechanic

#

mainly cause of lack of bars on mobile

scenic oriole
#

idk i dont play rs3

formal ibex
#

but would be nice to be able to press 1 button and it switches to shield and auto does next ability

broken pumice
formal ibex
#

r you bind duel weild to 1 item

scenic oriole
#

i came back to osrs after like 10 years last year. saw rs3 was trying to overhaul and decided to see what was happening

formal ibex
#

so you can swich with one button

scenic oriole
#

still dont like it

formal ibex
#

instead of two

broken pumice
#

i think a lot of people who do use macros do it for like, full gear switches

formal ibex
broken pumice
#

less bone shield is plenty good for 99% of situations

formal ibex
#

they need to tiidy that boss up

#

i dont think ive tried it recently at arch tbf so thats on me lol

#

switching to duel wield should be 1 input imo

rotund granite
#

swapping to duals is pretty reasonable I think

formal ibex
#

guess its easier on desktop but with the limited actionbar and invent half showing its hard to manage

#

on mobile

rotund granite
#

since ticks are still 0.6s in the endgame, I don't think it's that bad to not macro endgame pvm, cause you can like press more than 8 buttons in 0.6s

formal ibex
#

why does it have to be 0.6 its so confusing lol

rotund granite
#

that's the length of a tick in the game, which the old code rs3's built ontop of

formal ibex
#

although the tick bar did help loads

#

just wish we had a more constant visual of tick system

rotund granite
#

that could be a good idea tbh

#

visualizing the ticks would actually be pretty cool and help people understand the game

scenic oriole
formal ibex
#

the bar does help but when it goes i have no clue lol

hollow hill
rotund granite
#

yeah it's usually never that much

formal ibex
#

so newbies are aware

viscid horizon
hollow hill
#

But yeah macros would be great šŸ‘

formal ibex
#

ive always wanted a system where if you do an ability it then highlights the best next ability if that maes sense, so you get a visual propt what is reccomended butoyu can choose to ignore it

#

i feel thats a good way to teach visually

hollow hill
#

next best ability is highly situational fwiw

formal ibex
#

waaaaah lol

viscid horizon
#

Honestly.

formal ibex
#

yeah thats fair

#

this is why im a payer and not a game designer lol

#

Im probs ranked highly in the dumbest rs players lol

sullen cloak
#

you aren't dumb

rotund granite
#

it's not a competition, but I'm winning

formal ibex
#

i just feel so stupid not udnerstanding simple stuff - whereas most seem to understad these changes easily lol

sullen cloak
#

fellers learn things differently

viscid horizon
#

I mean what they could do is some kind of Combat Academy tutorial that unlocks every so often and wants you to perform a rotation x amount of times ala Fighting Games.

Something like 'Spend x adrenaline as Mage while also casting Runic Charge x amount of times before reaching the goal'. Or 'empower your Range abilities x times while reaching x damage before timer ends'.

sullen cloak
#

some fellers benefit from seeing things done. others can read it and pick it up immediately. etc

#

just gotta find the way you learn best

formal ibex
#

true

viscid horizon
#

That kind of stuff would probably have to be crowd sourced from the community, but it'd be neat to have that sort of 'here are rotations that synergize, now get to practicing'.

formal ibex
#

yah a combat academy could be really good

#

set goals and tasks

rotund granite
#

something definitely needs to be designed about the pvm learning experience so that that stuff's baked into the game

formal ibex
#

a new player shouldnt need o use discoord or wiki to learn the game

viscid horizon
#

Like right now I think Meteor Strike has a whole DClaw/VDag spam while it's active, so that could be a good training routine.

formal ibex
#

on games like wuthering waves i can manage well and do combos - because it has really good tutorials for each character

#

and you can replay them

viscid horizon
#

Same with Necromancy having that whole Souls outside of LD, Fingers within.

formal ibex
#

and cant progress till yopu get the hang of it

royal shale
#

Again, rework Blood Pact into an actual combat tutorial explaining adrenaline etc. rather than just ā€œOSRS combat triangle rock paper scissorsā€. Much better use of dev time than reverting Cookā€™s Assistant and Sheep Shearer XD

formal ibex
#

yeah lol

#

tbf thersguy did a decent video looking at the beta

#

but think that was first beta....

broken pumice
formal ibex
#

its like I can not for the life of me kill Rashka, I know his mechanics now but I juistcant manage cause everytime I die, I dont learn anything

#

the game doesnt teach you why you died

#

if thjat makes sense

#

it doesnt really tell me why I died or what I need to do better

royal shale
#

The Signature Heroes farming in the Burthorpe Troll Caves could also be brought to the Lumbridge Catacombs post-TBP and explain their respective styles more in-depth.

formal ibex
#

I liek arch because you can choose the power it uses, so you can learn each mechanic easily

#

and slowly add each one in

#

more bosses should have that system imo

#

or add it to practise mode for bosses

royal shale
formal ibex
#

zuk was vile on mobile, mainly due to movement

#

took me years to learn lol

#

pizza phase was the worst

viscid horizon
royal shale
#

Zuk isnā€™t extremely APM-heavy though, heā€™s more strategy-focused. Raksha youā€™re expected to prayer flick, attack, move, and kill minions/shadows all at the same time.

formal ibex
#

if i cant do a boss, my trick is wait for power creep updates then try again lol

royal shale
#

Zuk youā€™re doing maybe two of those actions at a time.

viscid horizon
#

When I was learning Barney the Unfriendly Dinosaur from our Collective Nightmares, it was spacing issues that resulted in attacks blending together, as well as spacing issues resulting in tail swipes not going off or me failing to count properly and getting a tail swipnto the face for free.

formal ibex
#

i wat arch style mechanics added to practis emode so you can learn each step

royal shale
formal ibex
#

then for real kill add everything together

#

yeah I have yet to kill Rashka :3

#

after all these years haha

viscid horizon
formal ibex
#

my logic was try again afteer beta is complete and see if that makes it better lol

#

for me some mechanics get lost in the visuals though

#

vorkath is worse

#

yuk lol

astral nebula
#
  • I really miss the metamorphosis elemental form vfx, could you add it to tsunamiā€™s crit buff, the empowered state would also have clearer visual feedback that way
broken pumice
#

im really liking this new bloodlust stack thing melee has going on

formal ibex
#

necro wins for visual clarity

#

except necrosis stacks

brittle dagger
#

Melee just needs more sources of bloodlust generation that isn't punish/zerk

broken pumice
#

id like zerk to make all basics generate a bloodlust rather than instantly max it out

#

or all abilities

brittle dagger
#

Bloodlust feels kinda meh at lv 15-60 cause it costs 40 seconds to be useful.

viscid horizon
#

Honestly they need to make it have two charges somehow, whether that means Empowers at 2 and max 4 or empowers at 4 and max 8.

Right now it's a little awkward for single target rotations when you can't get Punish early enough.

Also, Punish should get its execute CD refund back.

brittle dagger
#

40 seconds of spamming pressing blow for 15% crit chance or a 750 heal >.<

gritty spire
#

Mage rework thoughts specifically, its the only style i care about
-decouple incite fear/exsang, make imbue 20s cd naturally, make them single target/aoe focused and thats it, make tsunami cheaper
-Bring back detonate and Meta

broken pumice
#

wait since when does ezk generate adren on spec?

viscid horizon
#

Uh. You sure that's not from Havoc Robes or Meteor Strike?

broken pumice
#

i think i just never noticed since i dont melee much

viscid horizon
#

Like I'm happy to be wrong because that'd be neat, but as far as I knew, EZK was still Flamebound Rival stuff and nothing else.

broken pumice
viscid horizon
#

Wait, wait.

That's on recast.

broken pumice
#

right there at the bottom

viscid horizon
#

Yeah, no, that's been for a bit.

broken pumice
#

sorry yes recast

#

i guess im just dumb since i never noticed til now

gritty spire
#

recast refunds some adren yea

viscid horizon
#

I don't remember if it was originally a 'lowers cost' or a 'refund' though.

formal ibex
#

so is natural instinc worth usig more now for melee

#

if adren is slow

viscid horizon
#

Eh. Not really. Honestly just Meteor Strike. Should solve most Adren issues.

formal ibex
#

ah ok thanks

broken pumice
#

meteor strike feels quite good now too

viscid horizon
#

I don't remember if it grants 300 Adren over the timer, but at the very least it's enough to Varanus spec constantly during the duration.

formal ibex
#

ty guys btw for the reassurance and help

#

with my previous stuff

#

sucks feeling stupid lol

#

what is the reason we cant use wep specs on revo?

#

is there a genuine reason?

shrewd oriole
#

Nope its just the way its set up right now

formal ibex
#

be a nicee change jagex hint hint wink wink lol

#

hang on why can you use adreneline bar on desktop to trigger spec, but not on mobile?

wild sapphire
#

Should've just kept old ezk

cinder lily
shrewd oriole
#

The last ā€œnewā€ dismember was a dw ultimate nobody used (that i know of) were still down blood tendrils

rotund granite
#

lmfao

#

"learn the game buddy"

wild sapphire
#

Then switching back to ezk

formal ibex
#

hard to learn the game when it changes so much haha

wild sapphire
#

Ik switching is too hard for u

cinder lily
#

I dont think you actually understand the game at all.

rotund granite
#

guys relax

#

it's not that serious

wild sapphire
rotund granite
#

dicks are out

formal ibex
#

wish tooltips showed when you lock bar >.>

wild sapphire
#

Do u even have a hard mode zuk cape

#

Prolly necro scrub

cinder lily
#

So can I, so do I, but that doesnt mean you understand the game. If you can emulate a rot, doesn't mean you know anything.

#

I dont use necro. I only use melee and magic. Don't even have 120 necro.

wild sapphire
#

ahem I boss on mobile

#

Lololollol

cinder lily
#

I used to.

formal ibex
#

yay for fellow mobile users lol

#

you understand my pain lmao

cinder lily
#

I got fsoa and zuk capes on mobile. Legitimately.

formal ibex
#

dude

#

so did I

#

and i suck ass

#

lol

wild sapphire
#

Not the hard mode one šŸ˜‰

formal ibex
#

ok.... lol

wild sapphire
#

No one cares about the standard zuk cars

formal ibex
#

u win

wild sapphire
#

Capes*

formal ibex
#

i do :3

rotund granite
#

this shit is so funny

cinder lily
#

They wanted to measure dicks. Idk. But stating we gained bleeds when we didnt is just wrong. Probably a troll fishing.

formal ibex
#

oh finally somewhere i win

#

yay

#

awkward silence... >.>

cinder lily
#

Its golf rules right?

wild sapphire
#

Dismember update still adds an extra bleed even if they did take off tendrils

#

shrug

formal ibex
#

i dont get tendrils removal

#

i liked each style had its own versio

#

should be 1 ability that switchs with the style

cinder lily
#

I don't get tendrils removal either.

formal ibex
#

like adapative strike

#

why 3 abilities when it could be one that adapts to the style

#

and give necro undead tendrils lol

wild sapphire
rotund granite
#

a lotta effort to be correct about something so technical

#

better to talk about why that change is good or bad

wild sapphire
#

They dog shitted ezk after the bleed removal. Just for the community to say that ezk is dog shit. Then they updated it again with special passives. Just to take it away and give a bleed update to melee.

#

They need to buff ezk or bring back the bleed and spear of anhillation

rotund granite
#

yeah melee identity has been going between burst and bleed for a while

formal ibex
#

i thought bleed fitted melee really well

broken pumice
#

wonder what people think about the damage changes in beta vs live for melee. I think the base damage boost helps a lot out of zerk, but im only hitting ~27k with ezk under roar and zerk now due to both getting nerfed a bit. i dont have t99 prayers so maybe that adds a bit, but i believe on live you hit 30ks consistently with the same setup

formal ibex
#

logically

#

youre attacking things with swords lol they would bleed

molten bison
broken pumice
#

i think its a fair tradeoff for stronger abilities off zerk/roar

wild sapphire
rotund granite
broken pumice
#

im not hitting max with ezk anymore on beta is my point tho

rotund granite
#

with the recent changes, it's pretty comparable to the main game

#

yeah and that's intended

wild sapphire
broken pumice
#

i think its a fine tradeoff, but just wanting to get some other thoughts

wild sapphire
#

Only way to know is if u hit Ingenuity of the humans and then spec

viscid horizon
broken pumice
#

dont have ingen, testing on dummies with zerk roar ezk

wild sapphire
#

Gotcha

broken pumice
#

its gettin in the 27k ish range

rotund granite
#

even with 100% accuracy and max gear, you don't always hit 30ks

broken pumice
#

t95 prayer only also

wild sapphire
broken pumice
#

elders and t95

#

vuln'd

wild sapphire
#

And dragon battle axe

rotund granite
#

hmm that's probably possible

shrewd oriole
#

With 120ā€™s for melee and the loss of zerk aura average defense has improved with minimal damage loss if any theres a positive note.

rotund granite
#

pup was hitting like 29ks at raksha in p4, but I didn't pay attention to which buffs he had

#

probably overloaded instead

broken pumice
#

zerk also has less damage taken

wild sapphire
#

That's crazy ezk isnt hitting max hit and the nerf the specs

broken pumice
#

dba probably makes a noticable difference

formal ibex
#

so melee is back to juggling

#

?

wild sapphire
#

The only thing special about ezk is that it hits hard no matter what after bleed spec removal. Welp it's just beta

broken pumice
#

hmm got a bunch of 29ks there

formal ibex
#

why doesnt tooltip for ezk not state roar doesnt work with it?

#

or am i missing it

rotund granite
#

roar does work with ezk in the main game

broken pumice
#

because thats an untrue statement?

formal ibex
#

i mean on beta

#

sorry i thiought someone saidit doesnt work with it in beta

#

my bad

rotund granite
#

it still does, it's just not hitting the 30k hitcap like in the main game

formal ibex
#

ahhh ok

broken pumice
#

its that zerk and roar both got nerfed to 1.75x

formal ibex
#

my bad

#

oooh i see

#

makes sense now lol

#

see im so stupid lol

broken pumice
#

which is now stacking to roughly 3x damage instead of 4x damage

formal ibex
#

that makes it understandble tyyy

#

so confusing >..>

broken pumice
#

i kinda wish roar got changed a bit to not do damage on its own, and instead apply a buff only

rotund granite
#

ah so not just on 1 ability after it?

#

I feel like that's what jagex was trying to do with the bloodthirsty stacks

broken pumice
#

could still be next ability, just it wouldnt do damage and therefore could let you do stuff like charge barge (tho why you'd roar barge idk), or change the ability a bit to buff the team for 1 hit

#

or stack gfury roar

formal ibex
#

i want barge without delay lol

broken pumice
#

or use it when not in md for another reason, such as needing to dodge a boss's attacks

rotund granite
#

yeah gbarge is pretty awkward and not super intuitive for new players

formal ibex
#

the way it presents make it seem like you barge into combat and just do damage

#

but its kinda opposite... you have to stop

#

just feels clunky

broken pumice
#

it'd be fine if the delay got reduced to just a single gcd

formal ibex
#

I think they said they are looking at it thouygh so hopefully.....

broken pumice
#

so any self buff could be enough to trigger it

#

your zerks/dbas/etc

formal ibex
#

could an invntion perk maybe remove it?

#

or a perk that reduces it

astral creek
#

Ah yes, a bezerk nerf is just what we needed with its short duration šŸ˜‚

rotund granite
#

you still do comparable damage to zerk in the main game rn as melee camp, not too sure about brid

#

zerk nerfed, but base dmg for abilities was buffed

viscid horizon
broken pumice
#

i think they could honestly buff zerk duration a little, 19.8 compared to 30-ish for sun/dswift is short

#

vestment buff is good, but sun/dswift have the greater codices as well

viscid horizon
#

We also get a 25% boost or so over the others, right? Let alone base values?

Honestly I think Berserk can stay as is.

broken pumice
#

1.75 vs 1.5 yea

#

i think minion skip at rax with melee got a little more crit dependent

fierce phoenix
#

Perhaps the functions fullfilled by berserker / meteor strike for damage / adrenaline, could be better served through a stance system.
it'd allow melee to basically have an innate 'aspect' like magic can grant through buffing.
basically bringing back the old 'attack styles' but with a slight modern twist.

abilities could get certain bonus effects, based on what stance you're in.
they'd basically work as a solid foundation for thematic builds / item effects.

examples:
berserker

  • increased damage taken / dealt, more adr. on attack, generate adr. over time
    duelist
  • increased accuracy / crit chance, crits restore some health & grant bonus adrenaline
    guardian
  • bonus max hp, damage reduction, consistent small sustain bonus on abilties
    butcher
  • basic attacks apply a small bleed and heal for each bleed on the target, increase attack speed on low health targets

another benefit would be that these could be used as a way to tie in a melee skill tree system like necromancy has.
where you can unlock aspects of a stance by using it in combat, or doing specific tasks without switching to another.
having equipment that'd trade power from one stance for boosting another, would also allow for more focused builds to thrive, aside of a generic switch between all of them on demand one.

limiting certain stances to equipment, could also open up some nice design space (e.g. no shields in berserker or no 2h in duelist)

broken pumice
#

anyways i htink thats all the testing thus far

#

melee feels fine now, just might take some tuning and tweaking

#

id like quake to become single target affinity debuff, id like to see zerk not give instant 4 stacks but build stacks on powerful abilities, and a couple minor things, but they wouldnt ruin the style if jagex doesnt implement them

#

basically i think its a bit too easy to line up a zerk barge buffed bled assault right now, and id like to reward planning by building to 4 stacks before zerking, and then have zerk give more oomph during

viscid horizon
fierce phoenix
#

šŸ’« šŸ’« šŸ’«

royal shale
#

Iā€™ve been wondering to myself about what the biggest possible heal on a player. Iā€™m thinking a 30k heal (maybe an Uber Heal?) can be achieved in PvP.
Step 1: two players. P1 is wearing full Primal +5 armor including melee weapon and shield, and has Font of Life, Bonfire, and Eclipse of the Heart HP boost so base HP is over 16384. Player 2 is in full Tumekenā€™s Robes with a physical Legatus Emberstaff.
Step 2: the two players ā€œstart a duelā€, then just stare at each other and build to 100 adrenaline being careful not to kill each other with basics. Player 2 manual casts Vulnerability on Player 1.
Step 3: Player 2 activates Sunshine (with Planted Feet to prevent the DoT), then adrenaline potion to 35% or above. Player 1 stores HP down to 1 with a Prism of Loyalty, then activates Berserk, Powerburst of Vitality to boost max HP to 32767 while still at 2 HP, and finally Resonance.
Step 4: Player 2 activates the Legatus Emberstaff special attack. The damage multipliers should push it to over 30k damage even without crit.

If all goes according to plan, we get to see if Resonance has a cap of 30k or if it can go over and Uber Heal a player for 32k+.

rotund granite
#

lmao

sand panther
#

the biggest heal you can get is your max HP-1, the HP cap on players is below the point of Uber

#

since the whole Instant Kill/Uber Heal thing is a way of indicating values over 32k

royal shale
sand panther
#

oml

broken pumice
#

uberheals are also inconsistently defined iirc. some heal 30k, some heal more (perhaps by directly setting hp?)

sand panther
#

yes it's as high as hitsplats are allowed to go before converting to a non-descript form

#

that's why they cap it

#

and when I say "32k" I'm rounding down for ease of reading

#

I know it's technically the specific number from the size of the variable

royal shale
#

Oh ok. Iā€™m still curious whether it would heal 30k flat or 32768.

tulip belfry
#

my honest opinion on the beta:

Mage:
I'm still incredibly frustrated that the t95 dw weapons are basically useless. I put the wand into an eof and that seems to be all its good for now. I put together a rag tag mage rotation and went to vindy, and got a 27 second kill without fsoa spec. the damage is there in bursts. extended encounters seem to be lacking but making more use of greater sonic wave would help with that over time. all in all its baseline functional if you dont use any damage over time abilities outside of corruption blast, or the t95 dw set. I still think the cooldown of sonic wave and runic charge should be reduced, maybe 10 and 20 second cooldown respectively. I'm just avoiding sanguine charge all together, as it stands apart from the 12% damage boost it really doesnt seem to serve much purpose

range: i tried out range at raksha, the damage is there and it flows a lot better, apart from needing to learn a new rotation I like the direction range is headed. it still requires a lot of switchscape which is fine, the abilities work together well though.

wet patio
#

Linear complexity for the sole sake of replacing the prior complexity does not feel like a good or satisfying gameplay loop replacement, creative complexity offered a far more enjoyable experience where you had to improvise and benefitted greatly from doing so proficiently.

I donā€™t see the linear complexity style being enjoyed long term by anyone, just because xyz abilities now go together better imho.

Far less enjoyable ceiling to engage withā€¦.

Even if it is fun for most people in the short term scope dabbling with new things.

royal shale
#

My feedback on the t95 wands specifically as I donā€™t have a FSOA on main so I wonā€™t try learning it yet. #1469301607047889020 message

astral creek
#

Make melee abilities unlock with either attack OR strength level.

tulip belfry
wet patio
#

Yeah exactly, Iā€™ve never been a diehard ā€œnecro haterā€ but i saw it serving a purposeā€¦ this purposeā€¦ an entry style that albeit way too strong, as an ā€œentry styleā€ at least it ended with the necro style aloneā€¦

#

The treatment will somehow make all 3 core styles become more spreadsheety and less interesting stillā€¦.

#

No one wins

wet patio
#

Ez world record

royal shale
#

Because of the synergies with the crit ability kit but zero internal synergies with burns, it honestly feels better to pretend the Roar and Ode are just a t95 stat stick and do sunshine + tsunami rotations. Burns donā€™t even get Exsanguinate anymore D:

languid glen
#

snipe still seems like it is in an odd place in conjunction with piercing shot.

the ability itself just does more damage over a channel (which is great), but the long cooldown it has makes it an ability that doesn't gel well with how you're using basics to build into something useful.

i think to make snipe integrate better, it should have an effect for range that is separated from range's current "pseudo-style" of being a multi-hit play style - it could be a play style that directly competes with that

royal shale
languid glen
# wet patio The treatment will somehow make all 3 core styles become more spreadsheety and l...

my perspective on this slightly differs when it comes to magic, mainly due to temporal anomaly which provides some differences to your rotation (it does for me at least)

the only true way your rotation would be always random, is if every effect, cooldown and damage values are randomised, making you unable to predict the "next move"

albeit necro is more concrete in rotation than the others

median citrus
#

sigh, i don't like the split between dw and 2h only abilities for melee. It seems so weird to get into this when no other style has this

rotund granite
#

For the most part, you could probably camp ezk

median citrus
#

Like ig having to switch to 2h for pulverize isn't as a big of a deal when using dw, but it still seems unnecessary why can't I just use it with dw too

astral creek
#

May or may not be an unpopular opinion but I have not seen the Split Soul topic touched too much as most of the debate is around current abilities. Anyway, I propose removing Split Soul from the Eldritch crossbow special (ironic cause it introduced the effect into the game) and instead have the split soul effect for magic, melee and ranged be a standalone ability with a cooldown to match and cost (to be determined) aka the complicated route or be a universal incantation like Darkness aka the easy route. Switch weapon scape is *** and should be as minimal as possible, not encouraged. Just my two cents on that. Obviously the Eldritch crossbow spec would have to be redesigned, and be attractive enough so as to keep the price of the bow as stable as possible which in turn encourages Ambassador boss kills.

#

Also the Strengh skill should be either unified with Attack as a new skill named Melee or detached from Melee and instead serve as a general combat adjacent skill akin to Defense, but in the opposite sense (damage potential). As it currently stands it's an old design relic of the stone age of game design. Melee takes twice as long as all other combat skills - makes absolutely no sense. The easy and cheap way out to make it fair is to double xp gain akin to a 2x modifier aka remove the xp gain split system, ergo training melee trains two skills equally at the same time.

royal shale
#

Unfortunately we canā€™t merge attack and strength 25 years into the game. I would support making Attack be actually for all styles and Str just be Melee for damage, abilities, and weapons, but thatā€™s not likely either.

astral creek
#

They seem dead set on just pumping attack full of the unlocks so might aswell just delete strength at this point lol

royal shale
#

Some traditions are good and some are bad. And some traditions are so integral that trying to remove them causes genuine issues, whether the tradition itself is good or bad.

median citrus
#

either str or attack applies to all other combat styles plox

#

Attack applying to all combat styles makes sense since it can just become the accuracy skill for all combat styles

#

str applying to all combat styles is a bit funny with magic and necro but it opens a bit more doors with other skills like gathering ones. Mining already uses str

#

Like str could possibly also be trained with gathering skills too, wc, fish, etc

royal shale
#

Extreme example of tradition: we build a climate bubble across the whole planet and set the global temperature to 24C. Clothes are no longer necessary to prevent sunburn or keep you warm, but we should still wear them.

astral creek
# royal shale Some traditions are good and some are bad. And some traditions are so integral t...

I understand the tradition and identity arguments. If Jagex wants to keep the "two skills = melee" system in place (and not touch a hornet nest of reddit rage) then make it fair with other skills. Remove the xp splitting system for Attack and Strength which would feel like a 2x. More or less the same result. Many ways to tackle the issue in my opinion - just suggestions, flexible. I just don't believe as it currently stands it's fair and since they're trying to revitalize the game now this is the age of being bold aka opportunity time aka no taboos.

median citrus
#

like there could be 2h skilling tools which require str lvls too

static plank
#

After a bit of running magic thoughts:
Burn Build is borderline Dead, Sun Still not buffing it at base, all bis Magic is build for crit, Forcing the only non-book burn Ability to cost adren and not giving a basic burn to magic build for Rod and Ode sucks, Is burn intended to be killed by this update or are we making work within this combat beta? cause it feels the more the beta is updated the faster the Rod and Ode become Useless
The Hp drain from activating Saguine is rough and desensitizes use
Dislike the turning Magma Tempest into adren drainer as a normal but i accept being in the minority on that
Please make Tsunami a 40 adren ability like the other 2 its weird being forced to have A high level spell to make it equivalant to the other styles I understand incentivising quests but magic needing to do city of Sen and having a really high magic lv just to get a Tsunami that matches Shadows and Meteor is bad design IMO

cinder lily
#

I agree. Make tsunami 40%, make the proc on incite do more damage for aoe situations. Id also like them to try something other than crits for tsunami for the next ifteration. Helps early/mod more like that. If its a disaster, use crits.

raven junco
#

crits feel so weird

cinder lily
#

But I think something like 8% per tick channeling would do it. Kinda matches melees rate on meteor since you won't channel the whole time, just a lot of it.

raven junco
#

they wind up so important but like...

#

what early game crit boosts are there?

#

new Conc?

cinder lily
#

Thats basically it.

raven junco
#

by some definitions I suppose Matriarch Rings are mid game?

cinder lily
#

Magic will feel bad until tou get ceit gear and most is late game.

static plank
#

There is Tuska WP armor a low drop chance but it is a mid early game set
im fine with magic being the crit style being it has a legendary weapon who only cares about burn abilities and it doesnt have any basics to build stacks with means they are borderline dead content when they are solid in base game atm
but magic does need more early game crit chance items to use while building to endgame if its solely going to be crit

raven junco
#

Tuska WP has crit bennies?

main totem
#

Ye

raven junco
#

huh

#

great

#

...hope the drop rate off task isn't horrendous

main totem
#

Before etect got buffed, people were using sliske anima core attuned to tuska set for the crits

#

Cause it stacks with biting

chrome finch
#

If they do end up mostly killing bleeds for magic hopefully ode and deceit get some meaningful change

astral creek
#

Got another proposal which I'm sure may have been floated before in some fashion and is combat related targeting both keybind bloat (for switchscape) and inventory space optimization (to be more fair compared to 2-handed weapons):
Anyway; the Ability to make Dual Wield weapons into a combined single functional item. Example: Dark Shard of Leng and Dark Sliver of Leng = Dark Shard and Sliver of Leng. The combined item will take up one inventory space, and can be keybinded to a single key press. Combat wise the item will perform the same as in it's "separated/individual pieces" form. The combined item can be "separated" into its individual parts at any time in the right click item option menu. Any Dual Wields will obviously fall under this system - wand and orbs, claws, crossbows, lanterns and guards etc. Obviously it's not as easy as it sounds on the coding side of things. This will obviously require a system to be built to properly implement as there are possible combinations of dual wields which will present "issues" - say an augmented main-hand and a non-augmented off-hand (when say, clicking the combined item to check for perks). So, depending on the complexity of those combinations exceptions to this system may have to be made (i.e "you can't combine these items"). Those are for Jagex to figure out and toy around with. The goal is to make dual wields more functional by reducing inventory space consumption and reducing keybinds needed to be pressed for switching. In essence a quality of life update and simplifying combat further.

sly pike
astral creek
#

If you have it in a combined form you won't be able to wear a shield and the combined item at the same time (technically you could add an option to do so but it has to be coded so as to default to either the off-hand or main hand component depending on the item that is to be paired with, say a shield - not sure if that would be intuitive to the player - has to be play tested). The combined form does not destroy or replace the items in their individual separated form from the game. The combined item can be separated at any time provided it's in the inventory of the player and the player has one available extra inventory slot open. Obviously not while in combat. By having the "combinable" option, if you don't plan to use a shield for a boss fight or whatever combat encounter you are in you gain the benefit of having more inventory space available and one less keybind to press for a switch.

royal shale
# astral creek If you have it in a combined form you won't be able to wear a shield and the com...

One coding problem with that is items with metadata take up more storage space on Jagexā€™s end. The max amount of bank spaces we have pushes against the limit on how much data they can store per account, if every slot is a single augmented item. If some moron decided to fill their 1900-slot bank with combined dual wielded augmented items, suddenly the playerā€™s bank is taking up twice as much data space as it should and you run into data corruption issues.

#

The same reason they havenā€™t increased bank space in years. They are trying to expand the limit behind the scenes but right now they literally canā€™t fit more data on your account.

astral creek
#

That may be valid, yes. Only Jagex ultimately knows I guess. Definitely would be nice to have in ideal conditions.

zinc carbon
#

Heard magic is still too strong and burns are still too weak. I feel like what they could do here is manage the power budget by moving some of the damage from crits to burns. Also heard that some of the burn combo synergies actually work against each other, like dragon breath buffing combust and then needing to wait 7 seconds to make the burn instant with dragon breath

narrow spire
#

which - really seems to be one of the things missing in the beta. the three styles have tons of armors that interact and change our abilities. (much like necro and the soul well)

so its hard to say if something is really tuned enough if the armor effects aren't smoothly interacting.

imo - they need to change the three combat rings to synergize with the new direction. they all either give small crit damage or % buffs. with them moving away from crit reliance it doesnt make sense to have all three rings centered around that.

zinc carbon
#

The beta ability that buffs dragon breath should probably be updated a bit

deep basin
royal shale
deep basin
pale scarab
# zinc carbon Heard magic is still too strong and burns are still too weak. I feel like what t...

when i tested i couldn't get my dpm higher than live game. previous week was 1.1m dpm this week its like 720k and live game i get 750-800k. I do not feel like magic is "strong" considering we are losing auras and gaining 21 levels. It just feel sub par. not even close to be the same as live game. I dunno i feel like they said they were going to make combat easier to understand but they've done the opposite were good dps is dependant on chaining certain abilities together and if you don't damage will suck... necro got boring and braindead so fast because the rotation is the same for everything. Then with all the extra effects one ability does to another ability they've convoluted the combat system even more going the complete opposite direction that was intended. 2026 boss guides are gonna be "press these 5 abilities in this order and kill boss" leaving very little room for improv because that'll just punish you.

tulip belfry
#

I genuinely think if Jagex releases the combat update as it stands or similar, they will lose a lot of the existing player base. The magic and melee changes are no where close to ready. This is their first major update after promising integrity and players helping shape the future of the game. From what i've read here, talked to with players in game, and experienced myself, they do not like the changes proposed for those 2 styles. Range is actually pretty well done and if that releases the way it is with some minor tweaks i won't mind that, but with magic and melee they need a lot more work. this feels like 2012 eoc 2.0 and if they release the update without a majority consensus from the player base that is feels good to play, most people who leave probably won't return even if they make the changes we are asking for now. this is just my opinion.

What would be optimal, to me, is they release the 120 for all styles, add the basic attack to all the styles, delete the redundant abilities, release the ranged update as it is the closest to actually feeling good to use, and do magic and melee separately. There is no reason they have to release everything at once, and it puts a massive constraint on them releasing a quality update just to say they did it. this also gives time for players to learn range with the updates, while also working on the other styles. Again, I could be way off base but that's how i see it

languid glen
tulip belfry
#

they are wanting to release the update at the end of the month, if they maintain that deadline and all we have to go off of is the beta, and no one is happy with the changes that are proposed, then the release will be what no one is happy with

main totem
#

^yep

cinder lily
#

Beta should go on another month. Unless they somehow nail the next itteration.

graceful lava
#

Ranged is currently in a pretty good spot in the beta. Mele is almost there. Just needs more good basics and a bit of work on bloodlust.
mage is okay, just need some changes reverted like magma temp and such.

And they all need to be made so there are no abilitys give/take no adren. They feel so out of place.

cinder lily
#

Melee is not almost there. There a lot thsts good but there a lot that isnt.

#

Theres so much in melee atm thst fights itself.

#

If they want it to feel like its meant to go together they need to fix some of that

#

Like honestly, gflurry is bugging me a lot. We can get zerk back in ~50s, cool. If we do long form this is eh and throws stuff off. If we brid, its pointless.

pale scarab
# languid glen guys. take a chill pill. there's no statement to say they're gonna release thin...

this is a feedback post we are allowed to share our concerns, we don't need to chill out we need to air our concerns for them to be heard.. if we all just chilled out then jagex wouldn't know what the players don't like and we'd end up with shite. And if we are going off statements jagex have made, making the combat system more understandable was their main one... they've reworked everything to a point that its just as confusing for everyone now... we didn't need new ability buff chains and all these niche little things. They could of made the current system easier to understand but instead they've added an entirely new set of ability buffs to confuse new and old players its counter intuative in my opinion.

zinc carbon
# pale scarab when i tested i couldn't get my dpm higher than live game. previous week was 1.1...

Gotta consider trying new rotations with these changes too. The consensus on magic in many places seems to be that it's too strong. As for rotation similarity to Necro, they aren't too similar in terms of feel. Magic is still like do crits to juice adren, high adren meaning good performance. Melee the oppsite, spend as much adren as possible, high adren meaning bad performance. Range is generally focusing on playing around rapid fire and Gales and getting insane adren with shadows deadshot grico for pressing abilities correctly, Gales combos changing often due to cooldowns, while Necro doesn't really have anything for playing with adren like that

#

Though I do wish they had an element of rng somewhere, like fixing your bolg stacks is kinda fun if it's not too rare of a fail

elder musk
#

Ranged is there, magic isn't too far off, melee is making progress

#

There's room for another 2 betas for rounds of feedback and changes which based on the turn around from the previous beta to this current one could do it

outer spoke
#

@rocky yacht Combat achievement timers wonā€™t be getting messed with will they? And if they do, those of us who have recently completed master/grandmaster speed achievements will we keep that or have to REDO it?!

cinder lily
#

Some sort of bug crashes the beta when you drag the combat tabs. So far it was magic and it did it 3 times in a row.

royal shale
#

Random test idea: dart Ambi but youā€™re actually using dragon darts instead of deathtouch.

cinder lily
#

Yup, seems dragging the magic book crashes the game. Just did it for shits to check.

delicate wave
#

Hello friends

real swallow
#

can the available weps be updated within the bets? Varanus's Mercy is not available however the gloomfire bow is

#

(yes im too poor to buy it in maingame)

real swallow
#

the emberstaff is also not available

ember frigate
#

Impressions after messing around with the beta:

  • Range: feels a bit schizo mode. Having two buffs to keep up makes it feel like there's way more going on and to keep track of. Though neither of them seem very interesting? No reason not to have shadows up as often as possible, and gales is just "always use before these other abilities"
  • Magic: not much has changed here. Feels very much the same. Really the only difference is that you can throw in a Runic Charge every once in a while to juice something in particular. Pretty disappointed, imo magic has the most latitude to do something really different with spells and runes
  • Melee: feels pretty good, this is definitely my favorite. I also expected it to change the least to be fair. Between adaptive strike giving 12% adren and meteor juicing all adrenaline for 30s and only costing 40%, there's SO MUCH adrenaline now. Bloodlust doesn't feel super important to the core, so not sure how that could be integrated better (or maybe it just doesn't have enough payoff?). Otherwise my only gripe here is that Quake should be 2h locked as an AoE ability, which then means that DW needs another unique ability - maybe bring back destroy?

Other thoughts:

  • Stalling should be removed. It's jank that should be removed, it only adds ways to abuse mechanics in unintuitive ways
  • Reducing the food adrenaline penalty is great. Food snowballing has always been one of the bigger issues between high and low level play
  • Idk how to feel about weapon speed affecting the autoattack cooldown. I don't hate it, but it also makes everything feel a bit faster and busier? Also makes it more likely to accidentally trigger when you don't want it to, like if you have a bloodlust proc ready
deft blade
#

how is staling bad?

spark anvil
#

I absolutely love melee compared to the first beta.

Being slightly less reliant on Berserk and having it not nuke you as hard is pretty special.

I think bloodlust could actually be melee's aspect (or stance).

An idea, but probably not exactly 100% how it should be implemented.

Bloodlust stacks up to 25, with 5 stacks given from Pressing Blow and 3 stacks coming from Adaptive Strike.

Berserker's Bloodlust
(Offensive aspect)

  • Damage Dealt is increased by (āš”ļø4% of attack level) per stack of Bloodlust.
  • Upon casting Berserk, consumes all bloodlust stacks. Damage dealt and damage received during Berserk is increased by 1% per Bloodlust stack consumed.

Survivalist's Bloodlust
(Defensive Aspect)

  • You take (šŸ›”ļø4% of your defence level) less damage from core damage types for each stack of Bloodlust.
  • Upon casting Berserk, consume all bloodlust stacks. Damage taken during Berserk is reduced by 1% per bloodlust stack consumed.
ember frigate
# deft blade how is staling bad?

Stalling is in the same category as 4taa of "weird unintentional interactions that exist and have been abused by the community." They should have never existed. There's no reason why they need to continue existing. This whole rework is the perfect opportunity to chuck them.

deft blade
#

by removing stalling or 4taa ure potentially reducing dps by alot if they are to be removed something should be done to mitigate dps loss dont you think?

#

just met stalling in itself on vest + aura thats 6 abilities u are needing to do to get back up

#

well on beta idk if 6 abilities will do the trick its kinda iffy rn

ember frigate
#

Not necessarily? "We can never nerf or fix things because it would reduce DPS" isn't exactly a healthy balancing approach. Maybe they'd need to adjust some boss timers

deft blade
#

but the rule of thumb thats 6 abilities that you used to dps with rather than gain back adren

#

well its not an opinion its a fact removing stalling as it is means u will need to rathar than drop dps abilities use abilities for adren gain

#

that is dps loss

ember frigate
#

I'm not saying it wouldn't be lol

deft blade
#

but then again, with the way meteor is going to work i dont see how stalling is relevant either

#

only for the reduction of adren in what 30% i think

#

not sure hvnt mesesed with it alot

ember frigate
#

Reworking these styles at their core also shouldn't have a goal of "their damage output needs to exactly match what they did previously"

#

And if it's not as necessary/relevant, even more argument to remove it now

deft blade
#

so youre saying nerf end game pvmin to make early or mkid game pvming more accesible?

#

im not saying make rework match or be stronger

#

power creep has been following us since egwds

#

several nerfs and buffs havfe happened over the years to mitigate this

#

and honestly game doesnt need more power rightnow

#

but it doesnt need nerfs either

zinc carbon
deft blade
#

im not argueing that it is, i want them to stay

ember frigate
#

My lovely MS paint illustration: I don't think it's a bad thing if smoothing out the power curve results in a lower top end. Right now so much of the "meta" is stacked on items and mechanics at the very, very end.

image.png
zinc carbon
#

Oh meant to reply to the other person soz

deft blade
#

its a very divided argument, im all for locking end game power behind end game gear behiond end game bosses

#

and alot of people dislike that

#

but to each their own, the point oif this disc is to share our ideas

ember frigate
#

Nothing wrong with that. The problem comes in when that end game gear is WAY more powerful than anything in the game that came before it and fundamentally changes how everything works, and dictates way an entire class is played

zinc carbon
deft blade
#

in the hopes one owns ideas bite over the ones they dont like

#

well i whole heartedly agree

zinc carbon
deft blade
#

but the way i see it, there will be less incentive to reach end gaem gear

#

since lower tiers will be almost as equal

#

but it is more balanced

#

ill give you that

zinc carbon
#

But it's also okay for the more complicated stuff to be at the endgame

ember frigate
#

I feel like half the discussion I've seen around the beta is about wensporing or other tiny niche interactions at the top end. Which just feels like people are missing the whole point of fundamentally reworking the styles

deft blade
#

i mean, my point is after years of grinding non stop to get end game bis gear and struggling with low tier stuff

#

now to be drastically changed to be more on par

#

does tick somethign inside me

#

its a fair change i agree

#

when eoc was introduced i wass so aggainst it i quit for 10 years

#

came back learned it and like it and now its on the cust of being drastically changed again

ember frigate
#

Yeah tbh they dug themselves a hole, particularly with all of the ability and greater ability unlocks. If we were really starting from a blank canvas, tbh they should probably all be unlocked at the beginning, or become very minimal upgrades. But obviously that's not really possible while maintaining that reward space and respecting that people have spent time unlocking them

#

Magma tempest is a good example. Currently they've removed detonate and shifted to magma tempest being the primary ability filling that role. But that's a pretty high end unlock and seems like a problem.

deft blade
#

didnt magma get trashed with a 40% adren cost?

#

and still no cirts?

#

with like a 15% damage bost

#

per hit

royal shale
#

I think itā€™s about 350% damage total across everything in the area. About 20% more damage than Tsunami for 1/4 the adrenaline cost.

deft blade
#

so its good?, on paper it seemed unerwhelmingly bad

hollow hill
royal shale
#

Itā€™s good for AoE only basically, youā€™re not using Tsunami for single target damage anyway.

hollow hill
#

And it was worse than wm on single target

deft blade
#

this change is going to be a huge head ache with the learning curve D:

#

just on amas release i decide to learn hybrid and now it seems to be down the toilet lol

#

hopefully hybrid is still viable and we can find a way for it

#

i love the constant dps from going from one style to another

hollow hill
#

Jmods seem to hate hybrid Smirkse

deft blade
#

yeah lol

royal shale
#

I mean you can still do 30 second rotations with your damage boost and adrenaline buff. However, the adren buffs donā€™t carry over styles so itā€™s going to be exactly 30 second rotations per style.

#

Or you can do Kerapac where Warp Time means you get full uptime with a single style for absurd damage

deft blade
#

i bet one jmod tried hybrid and didnt like it and thats why they were like "nop, maker it non viable"

royal shale
#

Thereā€™s a reason the 1.8 million HP speed time is 2:15 (not that Iā€™m going for it lol)

deft blade
#

in all reality i just want the update to come and stay to learn and or quit lol depending on how frustrating it is

marble notch
royal shale
marble notch
#

I guess it takes a while to tick but... its an awesome AoE ability.

deft blade
#

i hvnt done anything on main for the past 2 weeks

#

i have stated in this disc how against i am on some of the changes

#

tried beta for a while

#

disliked it

#

gave my 2 cents

#

got dismissed by a jmod on one topic few days ago

#

i know my 2 cents aint worth it

#

so im just waiting

#

for the show to drop

#

shoe*

#

and either like it or not

royal shale
#

Then they got it with Tumekenā€™s Resplendence and didnā€™t want it because FSOA

#

Jmods still radio silent on t95 wands across both betas

cinder lily
#

Been messing with melee a bunch.
Positive:

  • meteor adrenaline is obviously quite a bit and feels close enough to crit refund levels.
  • Bloodlust buff didnt quite feel like it meant much, but the concept is decent. All I did was assault with it.
  • zgs felt much better. The hits were noticeably larger.
  • Another basic felt good because for the most part I didnt need to use "the basic" at all.
  • Dismember was better due to slaughter not requiring walking.

Negatives:

  • bloodlust buff was hardly noticeable.
  • passage gloves on pressing felt familiar, but i missed it being on adaptive.
  • the start of fights feels odd, but better than live if we dont prebuild. Having to meteor then step off to setup zerk feels weird. Creates incentive to bring a dummy where you can.
  • gflurry is such a neat effect relegated to a few instances and feels like youre fighting yourself utilizing it.
  • While the abundance of adrenaline at 6/tick was nice, it did feel like basics were just not needed. If melee is to be the combo style with buffing basics, this is a bit odd.
  • dw is lacking in abilities big time compared to 2h. Quake and Pulverize are both abilities dw has no counterpart to.
  • Dismembers modes are just damage. Could do something interesting instead.

Proposal:

  • Move passage buff back to adaptive. If needed raise the cd to 7.2s or 9s.
  • change meteor buff to a self buff ability like berserk, but make it grant 3x adrenaline on basics for 30s. Thats it. Adjust cost as needed. Call this "Juice." Classify as an ultimate, important later.
  • put 3%adren/tick into berserk for its duration. If needed, raise the incoming damage back to 50%.
  • lower bloodlust stack to 2 before buff
  • Add destroy and frenzy back. This evens dw/2h abilities. Or scrap Pulverize and dont add frenzy.
  • have flurry affect all melee ultimates, not just zerk. Or all melee abilities is something id like to try.
  • final dismember extends bleeds.
deft blade
marble notch
#

wand spec is only as strong as it is because it doesn't work under sun

#

if bleeds got boosted by sun I have no doubt it would have lower base damage

hollow hill
tropic violet
flat rampart
hollow hill
tropic violet
#

I dont think

#

:kekw:

royal shale
#

Wands donā€™t feel like a unique t95 anymore in the beta because everything now caters to FSOA.

royal shale
marble notch
#

have you tried committing to a wand build on the beta?

#

no FSOA, no crits

#

you can do pretty good dps just leaning all the way in on bleeds and wand camping

#

mostly because combust is so strong now, but also because of auxilliary things like runic-boosted dbreath and sonic wave helping you make up for not using nami

royal shale
# marble notch have you tried committing to a wand build on the beta?

Yes, thatā€™s what I was trying. One significant point of friction was that Combust and Corrupt have >15 seconds CD so more than half my abilities are doing nothing in terms of burn synergyā€”compared to every single ability being impactful with FSOA.

Itā€™s like that on main too, but at least I build adren with the burns to then fuel Sunshine Tsunami. Beta all my adren goes into Combust but half my abilities are to generate for Combust.

#

I still end up with a slight adren profit using Combust and Soulfire on CD, but nowhere near enough to fuel Sunshine stuff on top so it just goes into Wild Magic or something boring šŸ™ƒ

#

Sunshine alone I could fit if it was worth it by boosting burns, but Sunshine + Asphyx + EoF dump to make the Sunshine ā€œworth itā€ for crit stuff is not feasible if I want to still use burns. Basically, I can do burn stuff or crit stuff but not both, and crit stuff with burn wands is better than burn stuff with burn wands because Sunshine.

chrome finch
#

Agreed it definitely feels that way with magic. They should just lean into the crit at this point
Combust and magma costing what they do and the fact that burns donā€™t fuel enough for the sun rotation really highlight that.

Not to your point but a whole separate point I have is that they should 100% extend this beta - range also is not in a position either to be released in this manner

raven junco
#

leaning into crit has the problem

#

that there basically isn't crit gear for most of the game

royal shale
#

We need a midgame ā€œlesser Grimoireā€. 0% crit in your pocket to 12% crit in your pocket is the largest single item power jump in the game for Magic besides the Crit Stick itself.

north quest
#

wat

royal shale
#

No Grimoire to yes Grimoire is probably a similar jump of Etectonic to Tumekenā€™s.

north quest
#

lol u funny

raven junco
#

like

#

live Meteor Strike/Tsunami/Incendiary basically don't actually HAVE A buff at low levels

#

because you MIGHT get a single crit in those 30 seconds and you just aren't going to notice

ember frigate
raven junco
#

it's probably my one concern from what I've been hearing

#

why is Tsunami still crit locked?

ember frigate
#

They're trying to give magic specifically a crit build

royal shale
#

Because endgame crit stick is Jagexā€™s favorite child, and if you donā€™t have one then skill issue.

#

I donā€™t have a FSOA yet, and wands feel significantly weaker in the beta compared to main.

raven junco
#

can Tsunami get a biiiiit of power outside of critting so us newbs can use it for things?

#

(14ish year account lol)

royal shale
#

Iā€™ve heard arguments to change Tsunami to ā€œon channelā€ which I like. Especially since I made my channelerā€™s ring from scratch yesterday šŸ˜„ it feels good to Ironman something. Still no synergy with wands but channels are cool.

raven junco
#

oooooh

#

that sounds cool

ember frigate
#

Slightly different, but personally instead of building "burn vs crit" or "wand vs staff" I wish they went with different distinct spellbook identities. Lean into making abilities that are specific to lunar vs ancients vs normal. Build a full support style around lunar, etc.

#

Turn all spells into abilities, have a mix of things that cost runes vs adrenaline. Feels like there's a lot of room to play with there

solid bane
#

Given that Jagex plans to remove the Mahjarrat aura in the near future, would it make sense to remove it from Death's Store now?

royal shale
ember frigate
#

Yeah, I don't get why they aren't just doing one style at a time and giving it as much time as is needed. That was arguably one of the biggest problems with the original EoC, they got to a certain point and said "good enough" and shoved it out the door.

flat rampart
tropic violet
#

theres midgame update and endgame too

#

2 more betas

royal shale
#

Looking at the Earlygame Rebalance blog, it looks like itā€™s more about rebalancing (read: nerfing) skilling content instead of touching combat, plus there was no beta or any prior warning.

flat rampart
#

Been plenty of chat on it on PVME as opposed to here.

ember frigate
#

I'd expect endgame balancing to be more about gear and reward tuning, not entirely reworking the core ability kits (again)

royal shale
#

I know this beta isnā€™t about PvP but I just thought up a disgusting combo.
Wear magic power armor with Enhanced Kerapacā€™s Wristwraps and the Roar of Awakening + Ode to Deceit. Start duel, adren pot, greater sonic, soulfire spec, runic charge dragonbreath to hit like a bus and drop prayer, combust.

Over 15k damage in one tick combust.

ember frigate
#

Oh something I thought of earlier, there are some situations where I don't want to AoE, ie I don't want to aggro something else near me. It's always been a minor annoyance since you can usually just avoid AoE abilities. But with ricochet becoming more of the core kit for range, seems like it'll be more of a problem without eating into a good bit of your damage potential

bitter hull
#

I'm also curious with the ultimate's being tweaked to 60% adrin. where does that put ring of vigor or is asylum's surgeons ring making a come back?

#

also i am liking the blood lust stacks idea, though it feels like we gain them a little slower then i'm liking perhaps the cool down on the ability could be tweaked. if the basic will be used to help sustain you in a fight i think newer players at the lower levels will find it easier to help sustain themselves if they build up stacks quicker so they could heal as needed in addition to bringing any food they might need. but that's just my thoughts

sleek iris
#

After testing melee for a bit, some thoughts:
Bloodlust is an interesting mechanic (in a good way) but stacks up quite slowly. Pressing Blow could just be put into Adaptive Strike and the generation would feel better, approximately double the speed.

Adaptive Strike is basically an improved basic attack and would make more sense if it were actually part of the Basic Attack "ability".
What if Basic Attack itself was a rotation where the "finisher" would be Adaptive Strike that gives a stack of bloodlust every 3 or 4 GCD (based on attack speed). This would compress these two abilities (Adaptive Strike and Pressing Blow) into Basic Attack reducing the number of abilities on the action bar even further.

cinder lily
cinder lily
# cinder lily Been messing with melee a bunch. Positive: - meteor adrenaline is obviously qui...

Ive been giving more thoughts to melee and its identity with dw vs 2h. A lot of 2h stuff debuffs on top of aoe. Quake, pulverize, and ezk. Dw hits more rapidly with flurry and adaptive, but this is less supported at the moment. Dw could lean more into self buffs too.

Also, its been noted that having destroy as a stun was useful and I agree. But this being a debuff feels more like a 2h thing.

What if they reintroduced destroy, but not as a stun. It could do the same rapid hits it did, but perhaps fully channeling it grants you bloodlust.

Quake could become a stun in an aoe.

Then if they wanted to get more fancy, have pulverize lower affinity on top of reducing damage taken. Or replace it with meteor doing the same but aoe for 50% cost. (change the meteor buff to a self buff like I mentioned in the comment I replied to.)

This still leaves dw without a big spender, so add frenzy back at 50% cost to match.

This should leave 2h and dw with more clear roles and identity while keeping them with counterparts to one another. Quake and destroy could be learned at the same level as well as pulverize/meteor and frenzy to help show they are counterparts.

zinc carbon
#

I'm not sure if it's good to push the dual wield vs 2h concept too much if there isn't a specific creative build idea for it. Magic has something going with crits vs burns but but overall I think it needs a clear vision.

For example with animate dead, it was created just to give tank armor a use but it wasn't a creative build idea, where something that interacts with defensives would be creative if there's a vision for it. It ended up being more of a bandaid than a fun mechanic because players don't like starting the boss fight again from scratch. I like the place it's at in the beta, modifying the basic attack as a simple interactions. Plus I like lining up ticks by swapping to dual wield sometimes :p

cinder lily
# zinc carbon I'm not sure if it's good to push the dual wield vs 2h concept too much if there...

Doesn't need to be a build around it. Just introduce aome meaningful choices to the player using it. Do you not struggle at all with a boss, then (ignoring ovwrtuned ezk) you probably want to mostly use dw abilities. If you get tour ass kicked by the boss, maybe its a good idea to either weave in 2h debuffs or use 2h all the time.

It would also be a lot better to give the core style an identity then build around it. Say they do this, lengs already do lean into faster hits, just wish they did a bit more with it. Ezk could lean more into the debuff side where maybe FB Rival reduces damage taken by 15-20% then could even give no damage boost outright or give more damage for each affinity debuff. Thats probably too confusing, but you get the idea. Then we have Tumeken's spear thing which obviously leans into aoe.

So really its already fairly close to doing so. But I agree on animate dead being a thing to force relevance of tank armor. Thats almost exactly how I feel about beta and even live ezk. Overtuned but boring.

zinc carbon
#

Making dual wield vs 2h deal with some boss mechanics better could potentially be an idea for creative builds

cinder lily
#

Right. Already is the case too. If the boss does minions clearly 2h handled that. But due to ezk being a lot better, dw isnt better at much. Except something like arms at ag where fb isnt applied. Or crystals on seriyu. Etc.

#

Or even where affinity matter quake does that. Dw stuns with destroy. Etc.

zinc carbon
#

That's the part where it needs a clear vision though. With minion mechanics, I feel like it's more difficult to make those fun compared to making boss mechanics fun

cinder lily
#

Sure, but it makes sense to have it sometimes. Most dont. But aoe can still have a role like arms and legs at Solak.

Thats where debuffs could be an alternative route only IN the fight rsther than before it. Like how if a boss kicks someone's ass, animate dead + crypt and its now much easier. But if not you go for power armor.

But of course you could have mechanics themselves be ideal to swap between. For example, if the arms at AG had a soft damage cap like nex. You'd want many small hits to get under it.

Or maybe the arms have really high defense, so you'd want that affinity debuff.

Just examples of ways they could add things.

zinc carbon
#

I do still think it needs to be fun first but with roles I'd just take anything at all personally XD soft damage cap could be alright. I'd still say it depends on the system specifically though. If that system is fun or not

cinder lily
#

Right. Also Har'aken in Zuk has the opposite of a soft cap where you need big hits. Theres a lot of these types of things they can add in to entice better ability usage. That way every single boss isnt a nail and every style a hammer.

#

I also have a bone to pick wkth the beta shops. Why arent the heist rewards available? Or dclaws for that matter?

shrewd oriole
#

It would feel nice it melee 2h had access to flurry or similar

royal shale
languid glen
#

i'd propose that 2h-melee leans or focuses into 2 substyles

  1. AOE focus
  2. on-target debuffs

thus, to achieve point-1, 2h-melee should have more abilities that are AOE-focused to have it be a clear strength of the style's core identity

second, to achieve point-2, is that its abilities hinge on being able to apply debuffs to enemies. quake being a good example of defensive debuffs, but i'd like to see 2h-melee also have other types of debuffs such as damage-dealt-reduction on affected targets; but it doesn't all have to be just that, so abilities like meteor strike being a self-buff is still fine, and hurricane being pure-damage is also fine

#

as for dw-melee, i think it would be the one that we're already familiar with, where its strength comes from high damage focused on single-target

  1. single-target focus
  2. self-buffs to strength single-target damage

the current ability set is fine to achieve point-1, with the except of flurry to aid in some AOE situations instead of cutting dw-melee entirely out of the AOE gameplay

however, i'd like to see more usage of what we have from bloodlust, which seems like an afterthought that comes around only when it is available, rather than for us to build into - it essentially functions like runic charge, but performs much worse for dw-melee

therefore, bloodlust should be something more actively built up and utilised

#

bleeds being an identity for melee should be removed entirely. it should be a tertiary substyle that comes from weapons that alters abilities, rather than abilities defining it.

weapons like mwsoa and abyssal scourge could alter melee abilities slightly instead (e.g. deals 90% normal damage, but applies a bleed that deals 20% normal damage over-time), thus leaning into the bleed style category based on weapon (though i personally prefer it to be weapon-type specific, like all whips just have this passive weapon effect and ability effect)

zinc carbon
#

Getting access to the 3 cast bleed cycle only when wielding a spear might be a good idea yeah

#

Like something that augments the base kit later in the progression

zinc carbon
royal shale
#

Debuff stacking will pretty much always be either too weak to use or massively over-tuned. In my experience across several different games itā€™s pretty much always one or the other.

#

Even in RS itā€™s very strong, like 10% DR from Enfeeble is the same as full t90 tank armor.

upbeat field
#

i think the 2tick gcd on melee dw auto is offputting accross the board. i understand the desire to make attack speed relevant but making it operate on a different gcd than other abilities can throw off timing and cause you to use another auto when you really wanted to throw an assault or a hurricane

#

it will probably also confuse alot of newer icoming players

cinder lily
#

Yup. I get what they were going for. Im glad they tried it out so we could see it. But I think having accuracy and ability damage on weapons is perfect mix of doing enough but simple.

cinder lily
cinder lily
delicate wave
#

@tight fossil

#

I cbf reading up and i have basically no clue of the state of affairs, nor what is reddit tier comments vs actual input lol

#

But the last thing i heard was that jagex is basically aiming towards removing bleeds? Is that true?

royal shale
#

In terms of magic bleeds (t95 wands), they are significantly weaker than on main right now.

delicate wave
#

Ye

#

Josh was bitching about that one alot

royal shale
#

Which would be fixed if they just made Sunshine work like Metamorphosis used to and boost DoTā€¦

delicate wave
#

It does with set

#

But for anything but endgame that's dumb

#

Coming from someone with bisbisbisbisbis mainscape playing a cgim without bisbisbis rn

royal shale
#

Nope, the Tumekenā€™s set got changed to synergize with FSOA a month after release

delicate wave
#

Ow wait you're right

#

They changed the set

#

Ye i played main on catboss release then fucked off to groupironmeme again

royal shale
#

So we donā€™t even get that unless they add it back in (preferably w/o needing an endgame set bonus)

delicate wave
#

Ngl

#

I see alot of these changes as creating upgradespace

#

Taking away adren from certain things, or giving smokecloud a gcd

#

Smokecloud bombs and bleedgloves coming up

#

They're just copying osrs

royal shale
#

I have 10 slivers of pain (magic enchantments) right now, waiting on beta changes to see if I should make the Kerapacā€™s Wraps enchantment or the Channelerā€™s Ring one

delicate wave
#

With niche cb upgrades for specific things in terms of gear in that way

delicate wave
#

Also, protip of the day, if you're doing zimzam, just bring lucky tokens for witches

royal shale
#

Itā€™s 8 for the gloves or 10 for the ring and I donā€™t feel like doing more Undercityā€¦everā€¦

delicate wave
#

Will get you the things eventually

#

Or just send like 1-2runs darting jailer

#

But you can also just buy then iguess

royal shale
#

Itā€™s not the bosses itā€™s just the slog that I dislike

delicate wave
#

For irons, just do it iguess if needed

#

For groups it sucks

#

Bc it's an accbuff

royal shale
#

Takes like 40 minutes for a run solo (I know Iā€™m not efficient at all but itā€™s still slow)

delicate wave
#

Not an itembuff

#

25'ish if darts

flat rampart
delicate wave
#

Also idk what im talking about, could probs do it i 15 with bis necro/mage

royal shale
delicate wave
#

The thing im more uncertain about is my numbers, since i had to do the 25 fulls back in the days, got all my shit+ like a fuckton of spares

#

But we're getting offtopic

delicate wave
#

4t is very much dead rn right?

#

As autos will still do a gcd

#

What happens if i tag a boss?

royal shale
#

Yup, rip my cheap azz manual casting vuln

delicate wave
#

Run out of waterfalls rago, click boss without ab

#

Will that also gcd my ass for everytbing?

royal shale
delicate wave
#

Cause that's the og 4t, tagging

#

Works with any style

#

The stick with magic is you can force it via bar

#

But click boss> ab, works with any style

#

Just a tick slower

#

Same way stalling is gonna fuck us innit?

#

That's gonna cause do many wasted shit lmfao

#

So*

delicate wave
royal shale
#

Stalling in general just triggers the GCD before the ability actually fires, it still doesnā€™t cost time when going off

royal shale
#

Itā€™s only 3 pm for me, my brain shouldnā€™t be tired enough to make stupid jokes yet

delicate wave
royal shale
#

Should be, yes

delicate wave
#

so, what changed then?

#

Cause that's basically the idea of stalling in pvm lol

#

Get 2 abs off in 1 gcd

#

Whilst timing them right by stalling the 1st hit

royal shale
#

For stall on dummy then release on a different target (the unintended-but-now-a-feature stalling) it will fire immediately on target cycle, you donā€™t need to press Smoke Cloud at the same time anymore

#

Thatā€™s the only change

delicate wave
#

Idm that one leaving

#

It was just obnoxious

#

Prebuilding is fine imo

#

But the stall on dums was over the top imo

royal shale
#

Stall and release on same target unchanged, stall and release on different target is a bit easier

delicate wave
#

Feel free to disagree as iknow there are people that liked it

#

It does be skillexpression in a degree

#

But idk, it's in the ballpark of putting a bizilion dummies down to prebuild with aoes

#

It's doable, viable, better, but it fucking sucks

royal shale
delicate wave
#

Imean

#

Any speedkill at rots since release