#MTX Experiment: Cosmetic-Free Worlds (July 28th - Sept 30th)

2390 messages ¡ Page 3 of 3 (latest)

young quest
#

@quaint fox

quaint fox
#

Will let the team know

young quest
#

👑 👑

peak hawk
#

Whys that

#

Having a global toggle lets you play on the community world, and you still get to dress up, just not for anyone who doesnt want to see that shit.

#

I think they all fit well enough

#

Being able to drop pets with items was something i sorely missed. Lorehound and all

dawn abyss
peak hawk
#

You decide how they appear to you thats all a toggle would do

#

You as the cosmetic wearing playing wouldnt even know if the people youre interacting with have cosmetics turned off

dawn abyss
#

People forget that the people that don't care abotu seeing cosmetics probably wouldn't be talking about your fashionscape anyways so you'd rarely know they have it toggled of

#

Unless you're going around asking people if they like your looks

#

Which is another level of just being annoying imo

peak hawk
#

Yes you want to force people to engage with the cosmetic systems on say the portables world when they dont want to. Being able to opt out doesnt rob you of playing dress up with your avatar. It just means I dont have to engage with it

peak hawk
#

Ive been playing on cosmetic free worlds exclsuively and its been real nice hanging out with my tree freinds

image.png
dawn abyss
#

I've been unable to fully enjoy the cosmetic free experience because of the community skills places not being in the cosmetic free worlds

peak hawk
#

Yeah

#

for the first few days

#

when i was working on smithing to 110

dawn abyss
#

Hopefully in dxp or the week after i'll be finished with skilling forever (untill new skill comes out )and i can enjoy my month long cosmetic free experience

peak hawk
#

I had to pay someone to use luminite injectors on the cosmetic free world

#

Honestly

#

i have no idea what im gonna do for dxp

#

Probably crafting unless i get the branches for mw bow

#

The two things im missing from cosmetic free worlds are classic capes which is a pretty fair compromise

#

And pets

red pawn
dawn abyss
#

Alot of people would agree that seeing 6 pings is a little much though. especially since pings for reacting can be turned off after the first one

compact rose
#

it's not like they reacted to the same message 6 times, if I post 10 different messages, I accept there is a chance I get pinged 10 times

#

it's just a weird hill to randomly die on

dawn abyss
#

As i said it's a common thing alot of people don't like. being pinged that often. Especially because when reacting you can decide to turn off the ping for it

nimble wadi
#

And idk, being pinged a bunch isnt a big deal, especially when conversing about a topic. Its something you kind of have to accept, if it annoys you, its only because you dont want to actually talk about something, or for some reason have notifications on loud.

#

How else can you come in to a discussion a little late?

dawn abyss
#

Putting your phone on silent won't make the notification not exist. Just because you personally don't mind iit doesn't mean there aren't alot of people that do mind

maiden ember
#

Anyone have a link to the survey for this? Android client is crashing without opening the page when I hit "Give Feedback".

dawn abyss
#

Especially when in this case just the first would have been more then good enough

shy burrow
restive bane
open flicker
#

Tbh, perhaps its because I don't have discord on my phone.

I don't really care if anyone pings me because I'll not see it until I get back to my computer the next day. If I get 20 pings I'm fine.

weary crane
#

i've grown used to waking up to 25+ pings every morning

#

i don't mind it, but if someone tells me that they dislike being pinged, i just won't ping them

azure wren
#

my phone goes dnd at 2am

lethal panther
#

I actually have pings set up to go off 24 hrs whenever someone says something wrong and otherwise not to alert me

covert wraith
#

yeah although it can be a lot of work or impossible to disable mentions completely, you should never tell someone to not mention you

#

just configure your notification settings

#

if yellow and blue overlays or red badges from mentions bother uniquely bother you, change it with CSS or use accessibility settings

dawn abyss
#

Or ya'll can just accept their preferences instead of telling them to "Just don't get annoyed by them"

#

Anyways none of this is relevant to the mtx experiment so let's not get more irrelevant comments going and just stick to the discussion / feedback related to the experiment while also respecting peoples preferences on how you communicate with them

covert wraith
#

you'd have to change your behaviour with how you interact with discord and write messages; it's inefficient

#

and then each new person they interact would have to learn the hard way, unless you're forgiving enough

#

especially as they probably won't put this rule in their nickname

#

and then, most importantly, it derails discussions like this one, so in larger servers, admins should ideally prevent users from policing others' behaviour like this, especially as the deviant user can just Ignore or Block offending users (which would probably end up being nearly everyone they interact with)

dawn abyss
#

Or common sense could be applied in this case and only 1 ping be done instead of 6

covert wraith
#

Yeah in this case that makes some sense

shy burrow
shy burrow
unreal hare
#

Also Note: The one about Treasure hunter will have also appeared on #game-news automatically due to the URL change.
-# I assume It can be ignored, if you read it previously.

young quest
#

i think toggles, maybe separate ones would be awesome imo. i enjoy seeing the original gear rather than cosmetic but i want to have the ability to toggle it back on if i want to.

red pawn
#

This goes on until... September 28th? Am I like... WAY off, or?

shy burrow
#

Sept 30th ^^

azure wren
#

30th

#

says up there

red pawn
#

30th! Thank you!

#

I'm thinking I kind of want to hold off on answering the survey until the tail end of the experiment, just so I can respond with the most informed opinion possible

open flicker
#

Frankly given its run for over 2 weeks, I don't think there is much changing for me at least

#

My opinion from hour 1 has just solidified if anything

glossy rain
#

That and maybe start giving us an entity hider

#

Like how OSRS has one

#

Kinda wild this experiment lasts such a long time but the prior was a fraction of the time

open flicker
#

tbh I feel all the other experiments don't really need much testing

#

I think the cosmetic free worlds is the one that has the least pre-existing data backing it up on what will be the path forward

#

I think they already got a good idea what will happen to Treasure Hunter

flat solstice
#

I'm curious, since you're logging how many people log in to a cosmetic free world, are you counting people who would hop for Merchant calls? I feel like this would artificially inflate the number if they're only logged in for a few minutes to grab the shop before it goes away.

open flicker
#

those happen so rarely that it wouldn't meaningfully affect numbers much across 2 months

#

If anything I think numbers would go against the worlds in other ways due to things like w79 div, w84 portables etc encouraging people gameplay wise to not be on these worlds

unreal hare
#

one rather unique point they could potentially look at, depending if they set it up internally, would even be stuff like "how many players were active, which had cosmetics set before logging in? How many logged in with none at all? Were the cosmetics free ones like quest/event rewards, or paid/mtx ones?" etc

#

thats the "fun" in these analytics, there's so much to gather, and look at, that turns into multiple meetings to showcase what was learned from these specifically. then the survey(s) come into clutch with even more info.

glossy rain
young quest
# flat solstice I'm curious, since you're logging how many people log in to a cosmetic free worl...

well i dont believe these worlds are for “numbers” per say but for the experience of no cosmetics & receive feedback. theres a lot of people that still log onto w84. its purpose is to see what direction Jagex will move forward in respect to cosmetics. Should it be a toggle for your cosmetics AND the world, just you, just the players or a mix of both.

Anyone with their cosmetic toggle on, will see your cosmetic and everyone elses. If you have yours off, it’ll only affect your visual gameplay

#

survey is super important so i would encourage it to be done 🙂 its not as long as you think

dark laurel
azure wren
#

rather, that would be recorded as someone who might not necessarily want a cosmetic free world which they already said is not likely to be the solution they're looking at

#

data on the worlds themselves will not supersede player feedback on cosmetics in general

covert wraith
sullen forum
#

its also why I articulated my thoughts that made it unattractive for me to constantly go to a C-free world. Even on the its fine spectrum, I have issues with it that plagued rs way back in the day. if they fixed it, id be willing to hop for just bossing with a group if they liked that world. as of right now? no absolutely not.

It was to give more meaningful info instead of "player has 30 minutes of playtime"

#

and suggestions that I believe would make it better as an experience

dark laurel
# azure wren rather, that would be recorded as someone who might not necessarily want a cosme...

To be fair, they specifically stated in their article, too, that the cosmetic free worlds were not going to be the final implementation. I think they knew, even before the experiment started, that this was not going to be a good final solution.

Are Cosmetic-Free Worlds going to be a thing in the future?

We currently feel this is unlikely. Cosmetic-Free Worlds are the best way for us to test against this feedback without disrupting development, but we don't think this is the ideal approach regardless of outcome. This is more a vessel for learning to identify what we could do, rather than how we think this feedback is best solved for.

nimble wadi
#

Also the survey questions clearly show that a toggle is likely.

#

Assuming data suggests it. Its what a majority would want. Personal choice

dark laurel
#

I think they were prepared, from the start, for the real posssibility of a toggle option

#

Which I think is for the best, as I feel like the number of people who *specifically * liked the worlds (and not a toggle) were probably few and far between. Most people seem to want a toggle.

open flicker
#

Even people who were interested in the worlds, would often rather play on other worlds for gameplay benefit, or don't want to abandon homeworld, or not having to think about which world they log into instead of just going with default

#

So toggle benefits everyone more

lethal panther
#

yeah I've spent about 10 minutes total on the worlds despite being outspoken against cosmetics, just because the UK no-cosmetic world has never had a population level I find acceptable to ensure responsiveness when I've been playing

young quest
nimble wadi
#

Worlds themselves become kind of redundant with toggle, so doubt we'd get both. But it would be really nice. Id love it if we could get a middleground toggle as well. Some cosmetics, but nothing major

azure wren
#

I'm looking at something like this. Typed this up into the survey

20250812110240.png
open flicker
#

does cosmetics include stuff like overrides etc

#

in your answer

#

I realise now I should have asked for a

"Hide other people's familiars and conjures" setting. Not even cosmetic related it would just be nice in general.

azure wren
#

only overrides, I saw the survey switch between saying cosmetic and saying override but I'm purely only thinking of overrides tbh

open flicker
#

so animations and the like would be in there

azure wren
#

In the case of keepsakes I guess there'd be two categories under it of "keepsaked items with stats" and "keepsaked items without stats"

#

and yeah animations though I think that's kind of separate

#

lumped in with familiars and conjures

#

There's no particular reason for me to see anyone else's combat animations and hitsplats

#

walk animations I would lump in with wardrobe cosmetics

#

Also want to say this since they are technically overrides, achievement auras should be completely exempt

#

or as a compromise make an aura item for them so they can be worn while bankstanding

#

i think there are other achievement items that jagex released as overrides only and those should get the same treatment

#

stuff that people buy to look pretty is whatever but you seeing my aura that you think looks ugly and obnoxious is just as important as you seeing my endgame gear that i either paid a lot of money for or got myself

vital rapids
#

Assuming this is where I go to give feedback. Neither of these MTX experiments will "fix" the game. What is broken is the economy and despite what your British minds think more taxes will not fix it. Going after the bots has always and will always produce results.

nimble wadi
shy burrow
nimble wadi
#

Crazy how low rs3's is lol.

#

Likely that devs arnt putting enough in, but also arnt as many bots to ban. But we do have instance bossing bots.

gloomy crescent
nimble wadi
#

banning in waves is standard practice. its generally more effective.

#

ban people instantly and the cheating software is updated to avoid detection

#

are they banning often enough? who knows? the game doesnt seem to have much of a botting problem, but what do i know, i only play iron

open flicker
#

Just wanted to say it since its interesting

#

Even now, a few weeks in while the member cosmetic free worlds have dropped in popularity from their huge first few day numbers

#

The f2p cosmetic free world remain the most popular f2p world

nimble wadi
#

Members generally have worlds they need to be in for content. F2p generally don't

vital rapids
rustic needle
#

Aren't they supposed to be just on the top rather than auto login? Mine keeps auto-setting to W19 for instance.

restive bane
#

They might still be included in the auto select worlds. If that server is the lowest ping for you, it might choose it. I don't think I've been put in those by default, but I also log into my clan home world every time without checking.

open flicker
#

They're not auto selected any more than other worlds

#

My auto select worlds have not been cosmetic free world at any point

#

There were people who got said worlds automatically before. It had way lower population number then. There are absolutely people that like it.

nimble wadi
#

Id argue that their population doesnt really matter much anyways. Many people that would be using them if they had the choice, cant due to world specific requirements to function well

#

The devs are getting data, its just likely each of us individuals dont know what that is, and what numbers they are expecting

open flicker
#

happened again now. 249 back at peak f2p world for another day

peak hawk
peak hawk
peak hawk
# vital rapids Assuming this is where I go to give feedback. Neither of these MTX experiments w...

I actually dont think the market for rwt on rs3 is particularly deep. MTX has done a really good job in undermining both skilling and gathering wealth, and there just isnt much of a market for botting on runescape. That isnt to say that it doesnt exist, but its such a small part of the ecosystem nowadays. The biggest competitors to engaging in the game are, in order, MTX items like proteans, Daily skilling, common drops from bosses, and then slayer dungeons

#

As far as the worlds issue, I go out of my way to hop to a cosmetic free world when im looking to play. I just happen not to need to be on any particular world atm

nimble wadi
#

from what i heard previously, botting is even less noticeable than it is due to most of them just running instances anyways, though it would make way less sense to be doing so 'for' profit over just doing the same in osrs, so it would make sense that its rather insignificant in rs3.

vital rapids
vital rapids
open flicker
#

Its not "my opinion invalidate your experience". You claimed the only reason it was populated was because it auto put people into it and not because people like it, which is a big claim to make

#

We have no evidence that its the automatic world for more people than any other world

#

If anything, given that its much more populated than it was just before the experiment, the most reasonable assumption is that most people on it are opting in

#

Since Jagex didn't make those worlds now auto for more people

nimble wadi
#

yeah, it happening to one person doesnt mean its like that in general. could be that its just ordered such that your location/ping/world order lines up that thats the one it choses. it doesnt for me

open flicker
#

I've spent almost my entire time on cosmetic free worlds since they started, and those I've talked to on those worlds are not there by accident

unreal hare
#

There's times i load the client it'll be 36, some days it's 52. I have 52 fav'd, because i have premium membership, but i'm not going to claim the occurrence was jagex trying to force premium. It could just be because its a low ping and i frequent it

nimble wadi
#

quite likely.

open flicker
#

Given that some of these worlds were what, 50 people avg prior to the experiment

#

I assume people got them auto prior

nimble wadi
#

mine is always world 50, my favorited world.

ripe pier
#

I personally love my cosmetics, the only thing I’ve always wished for was a way to toggle “effects” that many gear pieces have. Example, many cosmetic overrides (such as Infernal Bow, Cursed Reaver Scythe, Shadow Dragon Spear ‘Fury’s Remorse’) all have glowing / flaming effects.
I know some people really may love that, but I don’t like them all the time. I wish there was a toggle to turn them off, much like the “Hide cogs on augmented items” option under the Settings < Interfaces < Game Interaction.
It’s a small detail, but I would LOVE to be able to turn those effects off for my avatar since I don’t always want to be extra-extra with my overrides.

idle adder
lone torrent
#

I like the cosmetic free worlds

#

A toggle seems like a good idea but a shared world view gets lost

jovial rain
#

Hello I do not like Cosmetic free worlds, thats wack but to each their own.

Ty 4 ur attention to this matter.

unreal kayak
covert wraith
near cargo
#

I have been playing in cosmetic-free worlds since day one. I play in contrast-mode. XD So, seeing cosmetic's is already kinda free. XD

nimble wadi
#

Like, the devs could just make a world called cosmetic free or something without restrictions and that would be effectively the same.

jovial rain
#

Here is my solution to this silly idea, I will lay it out and let you all be the judge:

  1. Make a 2nd VIP (Yes Premier only - you have to PAY to get in) World that is cosmetic free
    1a. Note: This should not replace the existing w52 VIP world

  2. In this newly crafted, **again I stress **that this Cosmetic Free only 1 world VIP is in fact a Paid for by whomever wishes to use it via the fee of 20 bonds or like 89 USD cash
    2a. In this singular world, again, you must pay to access this Premium Cosmetic Free feature - just like we all gotta pay for the dang rune metrics **pro **even though it should be included with all Premier membership already but that is a separate matter.

That is my solution to the people who enjoy and want to play Cosmetically Free, Jagex can still make money and then they can just 100% remove all the MTX non-sense we have been accustomed to since the date Squeal of Fortune was released.

Is it a good solution... not really, but it is a solution - My feedback stands as is, cosmetic free worlds are wack but if they must be a thing - they should be as stated above - Paid in Full by the associated whomever wishes to use them.

Ty.

lethal panther
#

in principle I'm fine with paying for a cosmetic-free option but if I'm paying money it needs to be a toggle on every world

jovial rain
dawn abyss
open flicker
#

The point of cosmetic free/toggle would be to be a draw to get former/new players to come play the game

#

A single world that require extra payment would inherently be the opposite of this

dawn abyss
#
  • having it be a single world brings in a boatload of problems
open flicker
#

The way Jagex would make money on players interested in this would be subscriptions, because a player playing and paying is more than if they don't

nimble wadi
#

Some people jist have bad ideas. I dont think its really on us to give suggestions though. Jagex seem to know that a toggle is the best option for us. It just depends on if thats going to be the risk they take on the potential that less people are pushed away. I doubt many, if any cosmetic purchases will be lost long term, just a few buying for the wrong reasons.

peak hawk
charred remnant
#

I have to say, I quite enjoy the cosmetic free world.
Game just looks a lot more grounded and simple. Since people can't spam all those cosmetic effects xD
It's actually refreshing seeing people with base armor. Gives it a spark of ORSR

I hope they make it a toggle however. I would love to play in more crowded worlds with that type of aesthetic option

sullen forum
#

when you got that 100m hour shenanigans. it goes hard

#

happy jagex is giving the effort they do to combat it

pastel tundra
#

Just to throw thought into consideration here...I remember being a returning player from the player base that left when they first released the new combat system. I would log on out of curiosity of how the game had changed over the years, and at the time seeing all of the colorful goofy looking cosmetics really turned me off to the game. It was a big "wtf" moment followed by an immediate log off. Now, I'm still not a fan and take no part in cosmetics, but I've gotten used to them. I express this experience for some insight as to the effects of cosmetics on a returning player base which much of runescape is, as well as what is more than likely the reaction of osrs players checking out the game and how they might also be deterred. If it isn't already apparent I would agree that toggling cosmetics might help osrs and returning players feel more welcomed as they consider playing rs3

jovial rain
#

i dont even care about this experiment , Jagex knows my thoughts on the other - **AMAZING **MTX Experiments............... I love them.
**
(Take the Survey so they know your thoughts too) **

weary burrow
#

Why can't irons turn in nectar for presents?

#

What will happen to the nectar?

rustic needle
#

Gone for oddments.

hollow pecan
#

And oddments are used in certain event stores. The Beach had one

dark laurel
#

This is what it says in-game in the calendar

latent obsidian
#

I agree. I kinda like my cosmetics. They looked way better than my armor when I got them, and is why I got them.

nimble wadi
#

Yeah, a majority of people want the toggle. Peoples issues are mostly other people's annoying animations

abstract sequoia
#

And particles

oak hedge
#

Most of the walk animations make me irrationally upset. And that increase visibility. Swap them all to the WGS crawl animation.

red pawn
#

Still very much against a global toggle

#

Except for particles, you should be able to turn those off

sullen forum
#

as long as we are consistent and make sure cosmetic free worlds cant exist, ill be pro no toggle. (pro particles being turned off)

red pawn
sullen forum
#

to make sure

red pawn
#

I'm sorry I'm a little confused

#

You're against cosmetic free worlds?

sullen forum
#

they are the same basis

#

no to toggles but to push for a free world is weird

#

I actually am against cosmetic free worlds as a concept but even I understand there is a want for visual clarity and a toggle is the literal answer to that. a necessary evil I can accept

#

theres no genuine stance why we cant have a toggle to just clean up how we see the game. not if that person arguing against it is pro cosmetic free worlds

red pawn
#

I'm very pro-cosmetic free worlds myself

#

I'm still not sure I understand your point of view though

#

What does your ideal world look like?

sullen forum
#

no philosophical convos

#

pro 0 cosmetics but no to a toggle to do that is weird

#

flat statement

red pawn
#

I'm afraid I'm really not understanding what you're saying

sullen forum
#

mayhaps take the statements literally?

#

im speaking on a literal standpoint

red pawn
#

What do you mean by "no philosophical convos"? When you say "pro 0 cosmetics", are you saying they should remove the cosmetic override feature from the game entirely?

sullen forum
#

you are pro 0 cosmetics but anti toggle. how are you missing this?

#

ive said it 4 times now

red pawn
#

I am?

sullen forum
#

you are, hence your confusion and saying you dont understand

#

or you are trolling

#

regardless the convo has deteriorated from discussion on teh topic so its kinda done

red pawn
#

I'm in favor of having cosmetic free worlds but I'm very much against the idea of having a global toggle in the settings. I feel like we're not understanding eachother here

#

There's no need to be angry?

sullen forum
#

no we understand each other

#

ive said the same thing

#

im still saying the same thing

red pawn
#

We don't. I genuinely don't understand what you're saying

sullen forum
#

?????????

#

yeah its done

#

have a good day

red pawn
#

Alright

open flicker
#

Tbh I think the argument that toggle shouldn't happen isn't a great one

#

Mostly because that argument become "Its ok to demand people to either opt in to cosmetics, or to hamper their own gameplay"

#

We have themed worlds, which often tend to be the only place you reasonable can do certain activities

sullen forum
#

agreed

open flicker
#

The concern of "I need to be able to enforce that everyone see this outfit" seem like it clearly should be secondary concern to "I should be able to have a reasonable gameplay experience"

#

Its not like toggles would lose there being an audience for cosmetics

#

that can be shown off too

#

The only loss would be those that Actively opt out and don't like your outfits anyways

#

some which may not play at all

red pawn
#

@open flicker just trying to continue here because I feel like it's good to have this dialogue openly.
To recap what we were just DMing, you're saying that players should have control over what they see and that you feel like you're being forced to view others’ aesthetic choices, is that accurate?that cosmetics are primarily about being seen by others rather than being about self expression?

open flicker
#

To me the desire to demand that these see the cosmetics too feel... somewhat petty

open flicker
#

Also before others say anything about oh dming, me and Theo are lorehounds and had convos before there

shy burrow
#

dw Kobra, I sneak into his DMs too 😊

open flicker
#

tbf it was Theo that snuck into mine

open flicker
#

To me this is something that easily should be the choice of the individual players on what they want to see

#

Enforcing that others see their preference too IMO is a step to far

#

Given toggles would be personal and only visible to people that actively uses the toggle

#

That to me is a customisation of personal experience

#

Not an enforcement on others

#

essentially toggle gives:

  • Does it make others unable to dress a certain way? No
  • Does it make others unable to show off to others? No
  • Does it make them unable to show off to people actively uninterested in seeing said things? Yes
#

If it interacted with 1) or 2) I could see concern

red pawn
# open flicker ye

My response to that, in a nutshell (RIP Mod Shauny, forever in our hearts) is essentially that players should never be restricted from appearing how they want in the game world. It’s not a “demand” or “forcing others to see you” just by existing and being visible. I feel that having a global toggle for all cosmetic items is potentially hazardous to the future health of the game.

dawn abyss
open flicker
#

I agree they shouldn't be restricted from appearing how they want. I support people's right to put on whatever they want.

#

But I think there are reasonable limits. The outfits in this game, the animations, and so on have become incredibly offputting.

red pawn
open flicker
#

There is genuinely a decent chunk of people which the aesthetics of the game is a big turnoff

#

and a lot of that come from player customisation

#

one that we really... can't meaningfully alter because we can't take away people's purchases

#

I don't see people quitting from maybe 10% of people not seeing their cosmetics

#

People didn't quit that we have "default outfit" toggle when there is a lot of player on the screen

#

where you very much don't look like whatever you present yourself at

#

But I definitely can see people refusing to give the game a chance because of the lack of it

red pawn
# dawn abyss But if i want to go full particle hell i should be restricted in that?

But I also want to be warry of saying that everyone who uses cosmetics is wearing one of those ridiculous "how distracting can I make my character" outfits. Those outfits exist with ir without cosmetic overrides enabled either way. Do you think that, in instances like those, a viable solution could be to have that player turn into a "ghost" if you add them to your ignore list?

dawn abyss
#

So if it bothers you ( particales ) it shouldn';t be allowed. But if other people are bothered by cosmetics in general they should take the gameplay hit of not being able to do certain activities unless they torture themselves looking at cosmetics

open flicker
#

Or becoming much more interested in playing due to learning of said toggle

#

Hell, I've said before

#

Me informing my friend of toggle had them returning to the game for experiments

#

That was the one thing to put him from "Not played in years" to "I'm willing to try the game out again"

#

now we're planning out leagues

#

The reason I think toggle is best is that the opposition to toggle is mostly

#

very lopsided in how much it affects people

rustic needle
#

Certain worlds are extremely popular for skilling together. There's even an achievement that requires you to do an activity in a specific world.

A toggle is simply the better option of the 2.

open flicker
#

A part of players you meet not seeing cosmetics is a very small sacrifice

#

vs

dawn abyss
#

It's unlikely you'd ever know people can't see your cosmetics in the first place if a toggle exists

open flicker
#

either sabotage your own gameplay or have no option to tune out what you dislike

dawn abyss
#

Except for the few friends you actively talk to

sullen forum
#

I also thing limiting a playerbase to certain worlds cosmetic free goes counter to things like efficient skilling, minigames etc.

#

a toggle lets them actually play how they want without effecting others

open flicker
#

Tbh permanent cosmetic free worlds also would encourage a bit self segrating in playerbase

red pawn
open flicker
#

But is it a bigger problem than the alternative

red pawn
#

Yes

#

I would say cery much so

sullen forum
#

imo I dont think most would find it a problem at all

red pawn
#

And that's why I'm speaking out

open flicker
#

Theo, would you consider having a test period with toggles instead

#

So we'll see if it actually turned out to be an issue

red pawn
#

Absolutely!

#

I'd be 100% open to that

open flicker
#

Because I wonder if the opposition is more in theoretical reaction than what it would feel like in practice

dawn abyss
sullen forum
#

im pro a toggle with some conditions and its tied to the privacy settings. nothing inhibiting toggle from hiding cosmetics but im for the idea of being able have a setting to just show my base model if people dont want to see my particle free outfits.

open flicker
#

I just don't see how "that guy may not see my outfit" is a bigger problem than "you significantly nerf your divine energies an hour"

sullen forum
#

^

open flicker
#

and a dozen of other gameplay impacts that you have to concede if you want to stay on cosmetic free world

red pawn
# open flicker So we'll see if it *actually* turned out to be an issue

I don't think that a test period might exhibit some of the long-term effects that such a change might bring, such as a gradual but significant devaluing of cosmetic purchases over time leading to financial trouble for Jagex? But I would still definitely be in favor of having a testing period for it

open flicker
#

To me it feels like renouncing buying clothes because you may encounter blind people

#

That they can't see them devalues the very existence of fashion

#

even though many others can

dawn abyss
open flicker
#

I could see the concern if most people opted out

#

though in that case it would be a huge signal of what the playerbase wants from the game

#

But I don't think that would happen

#

And so it become, why does the 4 other people you show off to lose its value by the fifth not wanting to join in

#

Why does that last person hold so much weight, when by virtue of them opting out they already wasn't into said expression anyways

#

I do want to understand but largely to me it seem a bit like this

#

And I don't get why this would be the dealbreaker or the case

#

It seem like such a minor change and the value of them would largely be there

sullen forum
#

My outfit is also based on how I want my character to look. If I think an outfit is cute, ill wear it. I may show it off to my friends, get their opinion and thats about it.

I do not largely care whether someone who I dont know can see it or not.

red pawn
# dawn abyss And what would the problems be ?

It creates a dramatic visual inconsistency from player to player. I think that in turn also pressures other players into toggling cosmetics off even if they may not want to, simply to ensure they're seeing the same game as everyone else. It takes a significant sense of agency and freedom away from a large portion of players. Furthermore, it would drive down sales for Jagex. If cosmetics effectively become clients ide-only, it then begs the question of why anyone would I spend $15+ on an outfit that no one is ever even going to see? That's ultimately very bad for the health of the game

open flicker
#

If cosmetics effectively become clients ide-only, it then begs the question of why anyone would I spend $15+ on an outfit that no one is ever even going to see

No-one has argued for that

#

I guess theoretically you could have everyone other than you toggle off

#

but if 99.99% of the playerbase goes "we want the game without cosmetics"

#

Then clinging to cosmetics would be worse for the game

#

But that won't be the scenario anyways

red pawn
open flicker
#

So the concern is that its the majority will

sullen forum
#

I dont believe that one person seeing inconsistently is going to cause others to opt into turning off cosmetics. the toggle literally doesnt effect that at all. itl be the same showing of outfits toggle on or toggle off.

open flicker
#

Because I've heard across this that its both so minor nobody cares and now that its majority of people

sullen forum
#

more so with cosmetics on. people already show no cosmetics and weird stuff

open flicker
#

If majority wants cosmetic less, I don't get why the good thing would be denying them

#

If not, I don't see the harm with toggles

#

The argument of "most people will toggle it off" if anything is a huge argument for toggles, because then its a incredibly widespread desire

#

and in the end the point of the game is that people should have fun no

rustic needle
#

Meanwhile 'Default Player Models' setting

sullen forum
dark laurel
#

Also I think I put something in the survey that asked for toggles for pet sounds. I love pets, but sometimes the sounds grate on my nerves more than the visuals. I think I wrote in my "ideal toggle" space that I would want there to be toggles for "just audio" for other people's pets AND a toggle for your own pet, separately.

#

(as well as toggles for other people's visuals, toggles for other people's pets, etc)

pliant niche
# open flicker and in the end the point of the game is that people should have fun no

...Except you don't believe that; If the point of the game was to, as you say, "have fun," then we should allow as much MTX as possible so that those who wish to lamp there way out of all the grinding can do so, thus enjoying the game the way they want (while Jagex profits, thus sustaining the game itself), and those who like to grind, such as those playing Irons, can continue to do so. After all, just as if the value in cosmetics is not how others perceive your character (even more so by allowing everyone to toggle them off anyways), then why does how someone maxed out their skills, whether by grinding or paying, matter either? Oh, right, it doesn't ¯_(ツ)_/¯

glossy rain
#

There’s having fun and good game design

#

TH and xp boosting MTX is not copacetic with the latter

nimble wadi
#

there is also an amount of fun thats taken away, allowing other players to just 'buy' progression, as well.

#

the argument 'you dont need to do that' doesnt really hold, either, because its a very common complaint that others are just progressing fast in an unfair way, which generally reduces good feeling, or fun from those people. and its likely that most players are effected by that to some degree, even if small.

#

and.. funnily enough, another huge complaint you see is pretty related to that. mtx cosmetics are immersion breaking or outright annoying, which absolutely does push people away from the game. and is likely far more impactful than the few worried that others wont be able to see their weird outfits (or normal ones), if that is even an argument that has merit (i doubt those people would even notice the difference, without knowing people could turn cosmetics off)

open flicker
#

Really bad comparison you made

glossy rain
nimble wadi
#

yeah, it really is. its basically saying 'i dont care if its ruining your experience, because mine is more important'

open flicker
#

Why does MTX matter? Because it affects the economy. Because it affects what activites are being played. Because it affects whether people even want to play the game in the first place by being blasted with cheap mobile game gacha like interfaces.

glossy rain
open flicker
#

Meanwhile toggling off cosmetics is unnoticable in every shape and form

#

The only way you'd learn that someone did that, is if they told you

glossy rain
open flicker
#

Otherwise its completely impercetiple to others

nimble wadi
#

theres perceived value in your appearance viewable by others, so i wouldnt say its completely unnoticable.

#

but its very minor.

open flicker
#

Its not like MTX clearly haven't affected gameplay balance. Whether its portables, or silverhawks on agility, or several other things.

nimble wadi
#

i wouldnt say their argument is completely invalid, theres merit to it. its just that the merit behind that argument is far less valuable than people's fun being effected by problematic mtx.

open flicker
#

I do think there is no merit to the argument I, personally, did not believe what I said

nimble wadi
#

sure, there is. but as i said, the importance of that is far lower than the fun thats being taken from people due to problematic mtx.

#

id argue that its barely important. not significant at all.

#

while, people are absolutely leaving, or have left the game due to cosmetics being so... over the top

open flicker
#

I think there is minor, but largely easy to counter argue, value to the argument "if you believe toggles, you should also believe MTX are good"

#

But the claim that I do not believe what I say I can easily say has no merit

nimble wadi
#

i dont really think you need to bundle them together at all, and its kind of weird to.

#

they both bring very different things to the game, in both positives and negatives. the only similarity is costing money.

#

so yeah, really easy to counter.

sullen forum
#

mostly keys bought directly

#

people complaining about value of cosmetics are already pro cosmetic free worlds. a toggle doesnt devalue anything for anyone. if YOU the cosmetic hater are using the devalue point, you are already making a bad faith argument.

compact rose
# red pawn It creates a dramatic visual inconsistency from player to player. I think that i...

"it then begs the question of why anyone would I spend $15+ on an outfit that no one is ever even going to see?" to this point, I would say most people buy cosmetics for themselves, not to force on other players, I can't speak for everyone but when I go through the thought process of spending money on an outfit, I think "Do I think this outfit is cool" not "Who can I show this outfit to" it should be for your enjoyment not others imo, which is why Toggles are such a non issue, if I don't want to see someone covered in rainbows or the beachware outfit which 90% of the community is, I shouldn't be forced to see that outfit if I want my game to look grounded as it can be

nimble wadi
# compact rose "it then begs the question of why anyone would I spend $15+ on an outfit that no...

i imagine most reasonable people buy cosmetics because they like the look, not because they need others to see it. obviously thats not the only reason people buy them, and definitely not the loud voice, but id stand by that thats most people.
also, its not that noone would ever see it. its likely that most people wouldnt turn cosmetics off. a decent amount, absolutely, but that decent amount of people are also the same people that wont ever talk to, admire or care about cosmetics anyways.

rustic needle
#

It's only a problem for people that buy outfits just to show to others combined with the group of people that do not want to see cosmetics.

Needless to say, the combined group is low in numbers.

nimble wadi
#

yeah, its hard to say exactly how large the group wanting to turn cosmetics off would be, especially since a decent amount of those have quit, or wouldnt consider the game otherwise. but its a decent amount. a majority? absolutely not.

glossy rain
#

^

clever turtle
turbid arch
#

making leagues cosmetics free is a very interesting choice, one that i think will play out well

lethal panther
#

which has to be a vanishingly small group - I generally believe that humans are good

gloomy crescent
#

Leagues not letting you wear cosmetics was a deal-breaker for me since I didn't like most of the equipment in the game
I genuinely hope that the view toggle is ready by the time next league rolls around

dawn abyss
#

What cosmetics would you even have had on a fresh account. Exvept for just hiding what you wear

rustic needle
#

Somethingsomething port from main account.

covert wraith
covert wraith
gloomy crescent
dawn abyss
#

I love that leagues is cosmetic free. Finally allows me to enjoy the game without the cosmetic garbage without hindering my gameplay by not being in the usual hubworlds

gloomy crescent
# dawn abyss I love that leagues is cosmetic free. Finally allows me to enjoy the game withou...

It's exactly why I'm in support of cosmetic toggles because there are players on both sides of the aisle XD
I play MMOs for the in-depth character customisation that the genre offers and set my goals accordingly, I'm grinding Legendary gear on guild wars 2 because it lets me apply cosmetics on my gear for free, I'm preparing to prog an ultimate raid to get a cool looking weapon for my main job on ffxiv etc
So changing my cosmetics based on where I'm at in the game or what I'm doing is a kind-of parallel progression to me

#

In OSRS the fashionscape plugin lets me do that without affecting how other people view me, I care about how I view myself in the game

#

Ofc I have some lines I don't cross like I don't use stuff I haven't earned legitimately

cerulean dagger
#

any idea on what gonna happened to oddments