#MTX Experiment 1: Disabling Treasure Hunter (July 22 - 28)

3855 messages · Page 4 of 4 (latest)

tawdry jetty
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Gotchu, thanks

steady steeple
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There is a few more but Hooli talks about how they're gouging interest in the bundles at all

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And have responded positively to people leaving feedback being negative to bundles, and say that they're trying to listen to all feedback

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Bundles may be in final proposal. They may not. Its a test, and we'll see if they consider the tradeoff in sentiment worth it.

tawdry jetty
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If not bundles, it'll be something else surely

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I just don't see a "no MTX" future

steady steeple
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I think the main reason they're doing is what the financial shows

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The game is shrinking in revenue, and in particular on the MTX front

tawdry jetty
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Unfortunately from what I have heard, so is every MMO

steady steeple
tawdry jetty
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Right. Any idea how they are going to tackle items like Aurora santa hats for example, that have only come out in TH? do they become discontinued? Is there a purchase options during Christmas?

steady steeple
tawdry jetty
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Any mention or conversation about this?

steady steeple
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For rares specifically, I'd expect they'd figure out some mechanism around holiday events

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I mean christmas would be easy, just slap it as a roll on the sled no?

tawdry jetty
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True, true

simple thorn
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reforged party hats, made with 1m magic notepaper made from elder logs

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dyed with exquisite dye, to the correct color

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from 5 million gems being dusted

steady steeple
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They did mention the concept of seasonal clue crolls being something they've considered, so that could be something too

tawdry jetty
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that would be cool for sure

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I won't hold my breath though, let's see if they follow through on this "we've been given a green light to take a hit" thing

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Its easy to posture, it's hard to take the hit

steady steeple
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I do think people have a lot of preconceptions going into these experiments, but from what I can tell they are quite open to feedback

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Have you taken the survey?

tawdry jetty
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I did, I was pretty down the middle on everything, only thing I cared about is that if they did continue MTX that they honor their regional pricing differentials

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Which did not happen with these bundles, everyone has the same price

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But I appreciate that the bundles are not fully formed and priced, and just a test at the moment

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and perhaps when they do come out, it'll be done properly

slow trench
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alot of my raider friends from ffxiv is playing osrs to pass time while waiting for dec-jan patch for content

steady steeple
amber kernel
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WoW players have been migrating recently

slow trench
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the upcoming 7.3 patch is basically 'runescape 3 after hero pass for a year' levels fo dry

steady steeple
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I think the only time OSRS didn't grow was like. End of 2021 start of 2022.

slow trench
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the biggest advantage of osrs

steady steeple
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otherwise its been growing since like

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2014

tame ether
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So the older formula plus some additions works better than this one

slow trench
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is that you can play osrs while doing things on other mmos

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without tanking your performance on your main game

amber kernel
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If it’s the year I’m thinking of

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Pretty sure it was. Time is wack.

slow trench
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old pic but this is how i've been playing

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ok its sending

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both xiv and wow require u to wait for stuff while waiting for stuff to fill or pop

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while osrs has insane drop-in drop out

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and flexibility to play on both mobile and computer

steady steeple
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Yeah I just don't want to undermine OSRS

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mmos in general are on the decline

slow trench
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im appreciating osrs for its flexible systems

steady steeple
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but OSRS has consistently been bucking the trend for so long

amber kernel
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A healthy blend of active + inactive gameplay is definitely its strong suit

steady steeple
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I don't want to attribute it to flavor of the month

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it has to be more than that

slow trench
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if its wow players its definitely flavour of the month

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well

amber kernel
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Oh for sure LOL

slow trench
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classic ones

steady steeple
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I mean yeah but like

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This is more than just WoW

amber kernel
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This isn’t the first time I’ve heard of them migrating to a different mmo. They did the same with FF a few years ago

slow trench
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im not a fan of mmo tribalism tbh but i did hear some horror stories in the server asmongold was in

amber kernel
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Yeah same haha

slow trench
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but yeah osrs is really well designed to be seamlessly played b/w active and afk and the plugins definitely help too

amber kernel
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Personally I think even if its simply tourism, its fun seeing a different crowd come in a see things for themselves

slow trench
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yeah im currently touristing guild wars 2

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its actually pretty fun so far

amber kernel
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I never did try gw2, I’ve been meaning to

slow trench
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uhh

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did u do fate events in ffxiv

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the overworld is basically that but with better integration

amber kernel
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I didn’t no

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Oh that’s sounds neat though

slow trench
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like

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think of something like banjo kazooie or super mario 64

amber kernel
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AYYYY

slow trench
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or odyssey or whatever

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and mmoify it

amber kernel
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Yeah that sounds fun

slow trench
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its also buy to play

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instead of sub

amber kernel
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Yeah

slow trench
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having a portfolio of not-too-grindy mmos to cycle through is good for me because i was unhealthily attached to rs for a decade

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and ive progressed far enough on both rs3 and osrs to drop in drop out without feeling like im missing out on anything big

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i mean gw2 is grindy but the buy to play aspect means u can just go in and out, the gearing system is horizontal instead of vertical

tawdry jetty
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Is OSRS a good source of revenue for Jagex? or is it just growing? Anyone know the proportion of revenue of OSRS vs RS3?

slow trench
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this is what we got

image.png
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afaik bonds also include mtx revenue

crude nest
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bonds are split

if used for membership, they count for sub revenue

if used for runecoins or keys, that's mtx revenue

slow trench
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interesting

steady steeple
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if bonds are not used within a certain time, they're also MTX

strong tapir
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looks like mtx keeps rs3 alive while osrs membership pays the bills <.< could be wrong though?

slow trench
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we dont really know the exact breakup

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for all we know osrs could be getting more in mtx revenue from people swiping card for bonds

crude nest
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We know that RS3 revenue relative to OSRS has gone down slightly since the previous financial report and the latest one but the exact split has not been reported in the last few financial reports

strong tapir
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does anyone know if historically they have shown the data on which game is making how much per year? or is it always combined into 1?

crude nest
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I think it was the 2018 or the 2019 financial report that last showed exact numbers, the next few after that referred to both games as percentage changes in revenue from which actual numbers could have been inferred

strong tapir
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man idk what jagex is doing at the office, but id hate to see rs3 close down because it doesnt make enough money 😦

simple thorn
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pfff

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if there's one thing they ain't shelving, it's rs3

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memberships alone will ensure that much

strong tapir
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as costs rise, and player count goes down, eventually something will change :/

simple thorn
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that's why they've finally admitted to the elephant in the room we've been pointing at for 13 years

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they ran outa gas to light

strong tapir
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weve already seen lay offs this year, that not usually a sign of a thriving company.

solar token
simple thorn
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i doubt that model will translate well to osrs

solar token
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which gives hope to rs3

simple thorn
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they know that cancelling subs, is their main ticket to get shit fixed

strong tapir
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im just waiting for the "Ads are coming back" post tbh

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one way or another, they will get paid.

solar token
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my personal opinion, the strategy to solve rs3 issues are as follows:
-maintain game health by removing disruptive mechanics (i.e. Unfair MTX, this includes buying XP)
-universal graphical update
-improve early/mid/late game transitions
-improve leveling format where higher level content should be preferable and yielding higher xp/hr rates

simple thorn
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main problem being, that should happen parallel to a regular content flow

solar token
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obviously

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i think theyre doing a good job with the universal graphical update part and keeping content flow regular

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and were seeing retiering's being done

strong tapir
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the game is too much for new players. people who have played before, know the game and quests and how things work. new players see 400 quests, a ton of skills and a huge map. its just to much.

solar token
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but my biggest irk is that even as a veteran who took a 9 year hiatus, I felt stupid lost in what to do and how to do things in rs3. quests made no sense. we need a way for players to feel progression.

strong tapir
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by the time you grind out an account far enough to enjoy the new updates, its 2 years later and you probably are sick of the grind.

solar token
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never sick of the grind

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the grind is what drives us

strong tapir
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nah i take breaks, this game is toxic with the grinds and wild rng dryness

steady steeple
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I think Jagex reached the point where they saw "If we keep shrinking at the rate we are at, we're going to end up losing much more than MTX income"

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In particular when part of that MTX income would still stay around even in the most extreme change scenario

strong tapir
solar token
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they have a literal 10+ year library of cosmetics

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bring back discontinued ones, sell those, and hell even revamp them to current graphics and sell again

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weebs literally buy the fugliest cosmetics in WoW. zero reason why we dont emulate that

steady steeple
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They lost 5.5m MTX income and said in the financial that their biggest reduction in income was due to loss in subscribers for RS3

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Which makes sense given that most of Hero Pass unsubscriptions would only show up in 2024's financial

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If that statement is right and sub loss in income exceeded the loss income

solar token
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perk is they are still profitable as a company

steady steeple
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Well suddenly that yearly loss is huge and the MTX as a total sum isn't looking like that much in long term in comparison

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Unironically for all we know they may have lost more income last year on RS3 than they gain from TH portion of MTX

strong tapir
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the question that needs to be answered, is RS3 dying?

simple thorn
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always has been

steady steeple
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Shrinking? Yes. Has it reached point of no return? Probably no

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OSRS came back from a lower point, though it had different challenges than RS3

strong tapir
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in game, it feels like its dying. worlds are empty, map is empty, ge is emty. people only play w2, w84 and w79. kinda crazy that theres somehow enough players to keep the lights on.

steady steeple
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Its strange to think that 4 years ago there were almost twice as many RS3 players

tawdry jetty
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Thats worrying, I hope whatever they end up doing helps to bring some energy back to the game.

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Really don't care what the change is as long as it is sustainable financially for Jagex and can spark some interest again

slow trench
hearty socket
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Having Disabled TH is amazing but… you still sell stars for money? 4 stars for 2-3 dollars, so technically it’s still MTX

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😭

dark spire
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I think people would have freaked out more if all MTX was shut off, more than being able to buy bxp

proven jackal
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I am loving no TH, I didnt realise how intrusive it was.
The bundles; I prefer they were not there however I recognise ppl want them.

tame ether
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A lot of older armor was “improved” in ways that made them look worse, like rune and torva. And then the replica that’s supposed to bring them, back, we have to buy it and it doesn’t look as good as the old version.

regal copper
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i'd rather people who are going tp spend money on exp be able to straight buy it than gamble and it only being bxp/bombs is good because it's just faster progression, not instant

solar token
solar token
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gambling was a problem, but so were the contents of what was being received when gambling

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to be the most honest game possible we need to keep experience and xp boosting items away from MTX

regal copper
# solar token but that just ends up being a side step to what is one of the core issues of MTX...

again, the majority of players agree xp boosts and stars are favorable because they are much less damaging to the economy ( demand for skilling items) but do not totally neglect the smaller population of players that DO want to be able to buy boosts, as the age of runescape players has gown up, now older, we have more money and less time to play games like RS. So some like that option to trade in currency for better progression. I dont think the goal here is making it "the most honest game possible"... the core "issue" of mtx was the way it affected the rs economy and the pressure the in-game ads encouraged to gamble, as well as pay-walling cosmetics on top of making them gambling based. i personally i not buy keys or the like. but would totally buy a cosmetic or two if the ones i actually liked were in the shop for a few bucks.

late bison
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I don't get why trading time for money is that big of a deal. If people want to grind the skills, they can do so.

regal copper
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also small bundles like this remove all the other mtx items form the equation

solar token
# regal copper again, the majority of players agree xp boosts and stars are favorable because t...

subsects of the game want different things, sure. but the issue is, is having purchasable xp damaging to game integrity and overall health? we have xp/hr rates that our sister game osrs wishes they had. yet we dont see them wanting to be able to skip content. with the option to be able to buy bonus xp you are giving the go ahead to people to get a place on leaderboards by literally having to do half of the work others are doing. it takes away the achievement and merit xp and leveling has in the game.

late bison
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I mean once your skills get to 120, at that point you probably grind them to 200 million because there are not anymore tangible benefits at that point

solar token
late bison
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I mean I honestly don't personally care about that leaderboard, but, that is me

regal copper
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these kind of things have been in the game for years the argument for merit is kinda of out the window. but also runescape is still a lifetime of grind. I just got comp last week and my playitme was exactly 6900 hours lol merit is merit still

late bison
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I hope that this only considering keys and not bonds, because then what do you do about the bot gold farmers?

supple pawn
solar token
late bison
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if people want a pure experience, there is osrs, that is the point of it

solar token
regal copper
late bison
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the company has to make money somehow, content, quests, bosses, or MTX

solar token
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health is integrity. integrity is health. you cant be a genuinely healthy game if you offer a pay to win alternative, that can effectively cut the effort of the game by 50%

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we have had dying populations because of MTX

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doing literally a sidestep in regard to the issues of MTX isnt solving that

late bison
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I buy 10 bonds and cash them out to replenish my gold, then buy gear

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I mean is that so wrong?

regal copper
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then what is integrity? you're making this comment in response to my comment but i really dont know what your stance is. and if anything seems to unbalanced to disregarding the game is, in fact a business.

solar token
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the issue isn't just about how RS makes money it's how that monetization shapes the player experience. Buying bonds for gold already creates an uneven playing field, but when you tie MTX directly to progression (via stars, lamps, or even upfront XP), you erode what used to define achievement in this game: time, effort, and strategy.

"Just let people pay if they want" sounds fine until the game starts balancing content around that monetization. We already see this with skilling becoming more tedious or grindy unless you're using boosts. That's not choice — that's design manipulation.

Yeah, the game has had MTX for years. But longevity isn’t justification. The entire reason OSRS was created and is still thriving is because RS3 leaned so heavily into monetization that integrity got sidelined. Runescape can be sustainable and value merit again, but it won’t happen if we accept XP sales as the norm.

Game health isn’t just server uptime or revenue — it’s whether players feel like their effort actually means something. And right now, too often, it doesn’t.

late bison
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I get more benefits from that than treasure hunter, with the exception of santa's groto, now that is op

regal copper
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i was simply responding to the current experiment

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and comments above

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about the bundles

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you're skewing this into somethin else and feels a bit soap box.

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as someone who has tried to go back to OSRS, god i hated it lol

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and not because of the lack of mtx

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there's just a severe QOL difference

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if people like that, that's fine but the game plays are very very different, i dont think people are playing osrs just because there's no TH

late bison
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the reason I don't do osrs, is I don't want to start over from scratch

cursive crane
solar token
# regal copper i was simply responding to the current experiment

Integrity in this context means that player progress especially things like XP, levels, and achievements should be earned through gameplay, not bought. It’s about keeping the spirit of the game intact, where accomplishments reflect effort and not just wallet size.

A healthy game doesn’t have to sacrifice its core values to stay afloat. You can monetize through cosmetics without selling progression. When progression becomes transactional, you’re not just speeding things up you’re changing what the game is. If the only way RS3 stays alive is by selling XP, then we’ve already lost what made it worth playing.

regal copper
late bison
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that grind was brutal and massively time consuming, I work full-time now

solar token
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you can 1-99 skills in rs3 in a much faster manner than osrs

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even without bonus xp or xp boosting items

regal copper
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i play rs for the quests, i went back to os because i wanted to do the different quests, but couldn't fall into the game loop

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and i've been there done that for sure, i'm very close to my 20 year cape

cursive crane
regal copper
late bison
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so yeah, how about that player with the insider information that disassembled hand cannons and got invention to 120 as an insider tip, when there was an embargo

cursive crane
late bison
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not even a day

supple pawn
late bison
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work smarter, not harder

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and the daily challenges get you to skill at a slow pace and aren't so bad

cursive crane
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For me, key disadvantage was run energy there. I've been playing since 2006 and OSRS reminded me of how it took forever to get from one place to another because OSRS run energy is exponentially worse both in depleting and recharging. I think they did improve it now but it's still way slower than in RS.

late bison
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same here 2006

supple pawn
late bison
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oh, that makes a huge difference

cursive crane
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There's only one bit about toolbelt I'd change... I'd have new players have to purchase tools first to put them on toolbelt rather than already starting with all. But I imagine that's an unpopular opinion.

cursive crane
late bison
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I don't think a toolbelt would unbalance osrs, that actually make sense

cursive crane
late bison
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yeah, say an addition to the tutorial?

cursive crane
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Yeah. I'd have new players start with empty toolbelt rather than already having everything there.

supple pawn
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Iirc that's how it was when the toolbelt was first added anyways.
Had to go find each item to put it on the toolbelt (even if most of it was available at a vendor, lol).

cursive crane
steady steeple
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Just a reminder for everyone that come in here, there is an official survey for the experiment

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Pretty detailed way to give feedback on what you guys like and don't like about it

amber kernel
dark spire
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In 9 out of 10 cases people who do that are doing themselves a disservice by not actually learning the game

tough void
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and thats ok! if thats how they have fun.

dark spire
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Yes but it's not healthy for the game. Which is why this test is very important for the health of the game, they aren't going to stop releasing harder and harder bosses

tough void
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obj its not unhealthy either. we know that hte current play style isnt gwd1 > 2 > 3

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so the subjective idea that its better to play low level and go each tier up isnt exactly hwo everyone plays nor is it the best way either

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so to make it simple, if someone likes to play how they want progressing at their pace and sometimes even using a bond isnt a problem

dark spire
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Gwd's are the stepping stones to learning mechanics, you're not going to go to raksha to learn how to use devo correctly

tough void
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you are allowed that opinion. I learned more from AG directly than gwd1 or 2

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so I can also argue going to gwd 3 is better for your skill progression

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you have dps, you have defensive and pray swapping simulator and then a long wave based fighting in gwd 3. that does cover a large list of mechanics

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necro also invalidated most of the early mid game stuff

dark spire
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Either way. It's unhealthy for the game, and it shouldn't be an option, I'd be all for being able to buy bonds off the G.e still, not do not allow them to be sold to the g.e, this solves both issues

steady steeple
tough void
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"you dont think" it should be an option. its a gold sink and is healthy for the game obj.

steady steeple
dark spire
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Because when you buy them, they are in the untradable state, just make it so there is no tradable state once you own said item, like a god book

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They could mess with it's coding I'm sure

tough void
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its also directly there to combat a rule breaking topic I cant say here in acronym

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so it has a genuine use

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even if people hate it

tame ether
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Pressure release valve lol

tough void
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its a multi topic item that serves a lot of purposes

dark spire
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Buying your way to endgame, in any game you could possibly think of that changes difficulty from the start of the game, to the end of the game, has never once been proven to be healthy. That goes for gear, and xp/levels, you can skip all the way to 120 arch or 120 necro, but you still have to do that skill to unlock the things which is why you would even lvl it up in the first place

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Even invention. You can get 120 inv off lamps but what was the point in that, you have zero components

tough void
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you can buy the gear etc to endgame but you cant buy yourself into endgame. rs is solid in this front

strong tapir
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you can def buy your way into end game, you just need a lot of gp. invention can be bought with gp, so can gear, do a few quests and your all set for end game.

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you can literally buy range and melee, and be chillin for end game. all you need is gp

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necro, and magic is quest locked

tough void
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ik for a fact people arent soloing something like vorago once they get the gear. hence buy the gear to endgame but YOU arent bought into endgame. There still is a wall that must be overcome.

dark spire
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On paper sure, but put them out in the real world they are going to flop around like a fish not knowing what to do in the slightest

strong tapir
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watch some yt videos, learn how to stall and fsoa nami into grico and gg

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but yea, the skill issue def is there for rago. rago solo is no fun

tough void
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youve described a 1%er type thing

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thats so beyond the normal player its not funny

dark spire
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The average swipe credit card Andy is not going to look up videos on bosses to learn swapping and stalling

tough void
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remember average lvl is in the 60-70s

strong tapir
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if youre buying you way to end game pvm, you should know how to stall and use fsoa and nami though?

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otherwise what was the point of spending the money?

tough void
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no, thats not a normal thing for people to do

strong tapir
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buying end game shouldnt be a thing, it should be a grind. thats my thoughts tho

tough void
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I can articulate most of pvme doesnt know how to stall.

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in a meaningful way to pvm I mean

strong tapir
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stalling takes time to learn, i considered it part of the pvm grind

dark spire
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I think the only time I've ever stalled an ability is trying to 1 shot something for a 2 second kill time or something

strong tapir
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usually its just for fast kill times yea

dark spire
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Which is such a niche thing, no one in the middle of a pvm fight is gonna stall their ability

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No normal pvmer that is

strong tapir
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if i stall mid fight, its because im at rax trying to get sub 1:40 kills lmao

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other than that, i dont really do it

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are you guys late game pvmers? were would you place yourselves in pvm?

dark spire
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I mean yes I am, but also this isn't the channel to discuss our pvming adventures lol

strong tapir
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i just wondered if you guys bought end game or not lol

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i see a lot of max end game accounts with barely any CA's so i just assume they all used TH to get there

zealous halo
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So, I've been trying to browse all kind of official sources, and I'm unable to find any note that bonus xp can only be consumed as a member (outside DXP events). I think this information should be provided when anything regarding bonus xp (current stars bundles) are offered, especially to F2P.

tame ether
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I just suck at the game and don’t care about achievements

raven prism
zealous halo
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I said official sources

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Wiki is excluded (is player run)

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And you can't expect players having to wiki for such information.

tough void
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obj the wiki is updated by official people too

tame ether
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It was a good anti crashing deterrent too

tough void
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so it IS a good source in this scenario too

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you can also just make a new acc and test

tame ether
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It’s sometimes wrong but usually right

tough void
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true, its not perfect

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but holy its accuracy is amazing

tame ether
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I had it open when trying to do 0 zamorak

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Control F doesn’t work very well when the info is in multiple tabs

tough void
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tbh radio, there may not be an official source

zealous halo
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I should not need to search up bonus xp on a wiki to know what it implies as I'm about to buy stars. A little note next to it would suffice already.

tough void
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so either test it or trust wiki

tame ether
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Was trying to figure out why I was taking constant 4-11k’s

tough void
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like we know there isnt an official source that says primal ores are core ores

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but wiki and word of mouth says it is

tame ether
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Some sources are lost to time

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Or buried in the news

tough void
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(jmods have said it in this discord) but I 50/50 take comments in a discord as the "official" source.

zealous halo
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Tbh, when IRL money is involved, there's a bit more rules added as well. TH has quite some information added lately that explains what happens in F2P.

tame ether
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Like in RS1, rune was allegedly purple for a couple days, but I don’t remember it and I can’t find any pictures

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Maybe I should look harder though

tribal walrus
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its so interesting that TH disabling gets a bad rap here, so many content creators and players i see want TH gone, myself included. I'm never a fan of "Buy keys and skip the game!" dangling in front of my face every time i open my menu or log in.

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that being said, where are these "TH cosmetics"? Didn't they say they were going to be added to the marketplace?

timid bane
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Thank you jmods for disabling TH! I love this update, made me swap some gp from osrs to actually play the game after a few years. Hopefully it gets removed all together, i love reading some people here crashing out saying they are getting scammed out of their bonus xp

tribal walrus
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its only gone for a week to gauge players reactions and feelings, sadly

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if it gets removed altogether, it'll be fun seeing what the game becomes, since players will have to actually play the game to get xp

steady steeple
steady steeple
tribal walrus
tribal walrus
steady steeple
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but everyone gets to speak their voice

tribal walrus
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that is indeed a 10-1, nice

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it is important that everyone gets to give their feedback

steady steeple
#

You guys taken the survey?

tribal walrus
#

is there a newer one or the member one from months back?

steady steeple
#

New this week

#

Answer honestly at every topic

#

Its one of their big source of feedback for this experiment

tribal walrus
#

ill go fill it out then

#

i like all the proposed changes imo, with the no-cosmetic worlds and a huge cutdown on mtx

steady steeple
#

I know people think they're a package deal but there is no obligation to support bundles for the sake of TH removal, they hear us about TH regardless

#

I'm pretty sure we've been told that at least

tribal walrus
#

i have heard some content creators say they might buy some bundles strictly to show support for this change, but thats optional and more of an "above and beyond" effort, not really necessary

steady steeple
#

found the comment

#

"I've seen some similar concerns that not buying the Bundle won't help send the signal you want to send personally about TH being in the game. I want to stress to anyone reading this - you do not have to buy anything to get that across to us. Community feedback is a huge part of this process."

#

Support bundles if you think bundles are good but otherwise no pressure or need

tribal walrus
#

its good that they clarified this. The bundles are intended as an alternate way to get some bxp, just without the rng and keys

#

that being said, i wonder what will happen to keys and oddments in the future if TH gets booted... i have quite a lot of each

steady steeple
#

Now that I don't know, but my assumption would be "reasonable warning to use up what you have"

tribal walrus
#

maybe some kind of send-off event beforehand to dump keys too

steady steeple
#

Who knows. Its so far off.

tribal walrus
#

it might not even happen

steady steeple
#

Anyways if you do have others you know that don't know about the survey, send it their way

#

I've only seen it linked in the official reddit thread so far

tribal walrus
#

have to see how this last half week goes

steady steeple
#

So idk how many has seen it

#

I've seen like 4-5 broadcasts of former players, people on my friends list returning to show support for experiments

tribal walrus
#

one of the positives of TH being removed would be a potential return for some players, so thats great feedback

steady steeple
#

I uh. Also was unsubscribed and resubscribed due to this.

#

Thats why I'm so talkative in here. Really happy about this happening.

#

My clan joked about what year it was when us former players came to hang out

tribal walrus
#

i had a recurring premium membership from january last year, had to cancel a few months ago but id love to do what i can til im forced into f2p in january next year

#

this is also one of those changes that actually shakes things up, hopefully in a good way

limpid heath
tribal walrus
#

thats fair

limpid heath
#

Aggressive but I meant it. I'm good with cosmetics; I just hate the gambling and P2W nature of Treasure Hunter.

#

Ngl- I'm surprised they didn't just pull a second referendum rather than this whole experiment thing. Let the players have a mass month-long vote and based on the results, make changes. Clearly it worked out for Old School becoming a thing and is now massively popular.

#

Unrelated- It's been a long time since I've seen AQW btw, @tribal walrus.

tribal walrus
solar token
cursive crane
# limpid heath Ngl- I'm surprised they didn't just pull a second referendum rather than this wh...

I'm actually glad RS3 is not doing any polls and I think outright polling should be exclusive to OSRS only. Polling makes everything too absolute in my eyes.

For a major update that heavily influences the game, I think developers should present us their vision, enable us to provide our feedback and insight, and then adjust their idea if needed based on our feedback. But not put final decision directly in our hands because bottom-line, it's them who are developers.

I think the way they are handling this TH experiment is great, especially as it's not just plain YES or NO in this case. I know it took me 45 minutes to fill up the survey because I wanted to be detailed with what I like about it and what I'd have different.

limpid heath
# cursive crane I'm actually glad RS3 is not doing any polls and I think outright polling should...

RS3 is a direct continuation of RS2 which is what OSRS is based off of. RS2 had polling. RS3 also specifically had Player Power and RuneLabs. The only reason why it didn't work is because the powers that be didn't want to add anything players wanted because it didn't pad their bottom line.

Please note that "the powers that be" refers to the monopoly guy executives who have nothing to actually do with Jagex besides own them, not the developers.

cursive crane
#

I well remember the Power to the Players. I'm just saying I personally prefer no outright polling being made in RS3, but rather enabling us to provide constructive feedback to the point we feel listened to. If you prefer otherwise, that's fine.

proven jackal
karmic heron
#

Overall pretty happy with the removal of the gambling aspect. I still think the bxp package gives too much bxp, but it's a step forward compared to TH and direct exp or proteans so I won't complain too much about that one. One thing that I've said before and will repeat here: change the exp curve on these stars. I have no problem with people levelling up a low level account quickly to access content, but it should not be aimed at people grinding for max exp. So increase the exp at lower levels and decrease it at the higher levels

**The knowledge bomb pack on the other hand is not a good idea. **The only good argument I've seen for having buyable exp is so players with little time on their hands can still enjoy the game. I think it's a good thing that Runescape tries to cater to all type of players, but the knowledge bomb bundle does not reflect that. I said this before, but a daily 10 knowledge bomb package is meant for someone that plays 10 hours a day. It turns out they can buy the other ones as well in the same day, so **that's actually 18 hours a day. ** The BXP package seems harmless exp-wise compared to this.
Either make one bundle of a single knowledge bomb and maybe a second one of 2. Ideally you'd replace them with 2/6/12 cinder cores as that is roughly the cores needed to burn up the bxp from the other bundles. This gives a higher rate to those short on time, but introduces no extra exp into the game.
This will result in it being less useful for people going for max exp, so it can still retain some level of prestige. While also allowing players with only a few hours to play each week to progress quickly.

As for the pricing, currently the bigger packages are more efficient to buy. While this seems like a normal thing, I feel like it's better to do it the other way around and discourage players from buying the biggest bundle. **People that really want to skip content should be prepared to pay a little extra IMO. **

karmic heron
#

Even better actually, make the stars unusable at maxed skills. Not sure why I didn't think of that earlier

solar token
lucid dune
#

For me, yes. I just need a way of easy leveling so I don't have to grind the few hours a month that I actually have time to spend ingame. Getting daily keys in the hopes of scoring lamps is my way of quick leveling (not unlike Eve where leveling happens in realtime, whether or not you're online).
Other MMOs even offer pre-leveled characters to quick access gameplay, in fact.
Leveling is a chore, not a fun gameplay loop, unless it happens at a speed where normal fun gameplay will level you enough for what's next.

karmic heron
# solar token although i like this idea, if the grind to 99 is too hard (which it absolutely i...

While I like the sound of that, I've seen some people in here that seems to be very attached to buying exp. I cannot really understand why, but they're also part of the player base and pushing them away does not sound like a good idea.
I personally have no issue if they want to skip the part which I enjoy as long as it doesn't devalue the things I value. Everyone has different parts of the game they do and don't enjoy, Whether it be quests, pvm, clues or skilling. Skilling takes by far the most time and has very many things locked behind it. If people want to play a certain part of runescape but hate skilling, they're kind of out of luck. I'd love to see the runescape community grow and making it cater to more types of players is a good thing IMO.

solar token
#

We used to care about leaderboards and the value of xp and merit in the game

karmic heron
#

I mean, as a returning player I never really cared about them. They're fun for about as long as they're competetive.

#

they were already set in stone when I started player so yeah

#

more important to me is that the exp obtained is not there because someone earns a lot of money irl and decided to buy it.

solar token
# karmic heron I mean, as a returning player I never really cared about them. They're fun for a...

As a 20 year veteran (took a 9 year hiatus). It was different. We looked up to those who were in the front page. With every new skill I remember my clan and I racing for that first spot on the list - like being level 70 hunter in the first week and being on the front page was an achievement I’ll never forget. Which is why when coming back and seeing what SoF and TH did to my beloved game it infuriates me

#

The gambling was bad. But the value of xp being diluted was worse

#

Effectively made it into a different game. And tbh something worse

solar token
karmic heron
#

I feel like the daily cap is a step in the right direction though, albeit that it's way too high. It prevents player from throwing unlimitted money at it. The biggest package is 1m bxp/day. It'd take three months to get the bxp for a 200m. 3 months is way too short a time for 100m exp in some of the slower skills. So some nerfing would have to be done IMO.
The knowledge bomb package should just not be added ideally. Could possibly be replaced with for instance cinders like I said earlier.

amber kernel
tawdry jetty
karmic heron
# tawdry jetty at the current price, it would also be give or take $1200 to get that bxp. So ev...

IMO the best way to get exp should be playing the game and not getting a job and paying Jagex.

$1200 is too cheap in that regard as the median wage is apparently $23.11 per hour (according to google) which would put 100m exp at 52 hours. There's not many skills that can even hit that exp/h let alone skills that can hit it without costing gp.
It's fine by me if it's more efficient for the lower levels so people can get their account up and do the content they wanna do. But it should not be the way to go for 120 all or max exp.

Not sure if TH is cheaper/more expensive but it's currently too cheap either way if you ask me.

tawdry jetty
#

Someone making 23 bucks an hour is making 3000-3500 a month, after tax much less. In today's world for them to shell out 400 bucks a month seems unlikely. Its going to be the "richer" people who can do this

#

It doesn't seem like it would be the average person who does this, who in today's day can wait for a great promo and spam it for much cheaper.

karmic heron
#

Yeah, that's fair. I don't really see these bundles as something meant for everyone and only really for people that can't find enough time to play. I doubt they'll be able to use up 1.6m bxp a day anyways unless they're using cinders

#

120 all or 5.8b is also not meant for people that play a couple hours per week. Nobody is forcing them to get them, nor is it a requirement for anything

tawdry jetty
#

True, I agree. Unfortunately it is a status symbol in the game and that makes people willing to either work towards it, or if theyre financially able to they will try to make the journey easier.

karmic heron
#

Ideally the exp curve on start would just be changed to make them irrelevant post ~99. Max exp/120 all will however only be a status symbol if it's hard to get. Hence why I suggest lowering the daily cap.

tawdry jetty
#

Once you reach 120 all or 200M all, nobody can differentiate from someone who worked their ass off or bought it. Only thing jagex can do is mark certain accounts as "has never purchased any MTX" with some kind of Green star by their name in chat or something but at that point things just get messy

zealous halo
karmic heron
# zealous halo Master Max Cape.

I mean, it's a cosmetic meant to be a bit of a flex. There is not really any game content you cannot engage with without having it. If it is also buyable it loses it's purpose

zealous halo
#

Still, it's 'anything'. Especially when Jagex is slowly pushing towards 120 all in the future.

karmic heron
#

I mean, all 120's give are some new skilling methods. I'd say invention, archeology, slayer and herblore are the only ones that actually still unlock some important things past 99.

tawdry jetty
#

Honestly, TH never bothered me. But if the data shows that TH is killing the game, and one day we're going to end up with no Runescape 3 and our accounts lost to the abyss, now I don't want it around any more and I want something more sustainable for the game.

#

If that sustainable solution happens to be these bundles. So be it.

#

If it happens to be high effort, high design cosmetics that Jagex charges an arm and a leg for. So be it.

karmic heron
#

Yeah, I think we can all agree that the games existence should not be threathened by the changes. I'm just voicing my opinions on the way they are trying to make it work in hopes of making it better.

tawdry jetty
#

I want the company to be successul, and the playerbase to be growing. We can't just say we want the best for the players at the cost of the company or vice versa.

#

Both need to flourish if we want 20 more years of this game

tawdry jetty
harsh parcel
#

They just need to remove coins and expensive cosmetics from TH if that's the issue. Removing TH entirely and keep stars and bombs buyable through real money does not make any sense.

tame ether
#

The stars aren’t as bad as the bombs

#

The bombs are way underpriced

#

And cheapen things too much

#

But it’s been like that for a long time and the damage is done

tough void
#

yeah the bombs significantly devalue the stars in this one. you pay a lot for not much in bxp in stars

#

and the bombs are much better in both what you gain and cost

signal obsidian
#

But what if you compare those prices to treasure hunter? How much xp would you get from a package of keys? (Direct and with some more effort like proteans and dummies)

#

Actually I haven't paid much attention to key packages, but I believe you'd get way more from keys especially during overpowered promotions during holidays.

signal obsidian
#

It says 22 euro for 75 keys on steam. If we would compare that to the star package that is 51 keys vs 25 large prismatic stars.

#

Btw I think treasure hunter was too generous with the rewards.

tough void
#

its not even close.

#

Im using promos mostly for this statement.

#

some dont give a lot of bxp. I cant ignore that part

#

you can easily get a few million bxp off of 75 keys.

#

I think one of the more busted promos is like 44k bxp per key as the average

#

thats about 3.3m bxp over 75 keys

#

for 51 keys at 44.4k bxp each in this scenario is about 2.2m bxp

signal obsidian
#

That is only bxp? You get lots of other stuff too. Most people would consider lamps better.

tough void
#

at lvl 120 the large stars gives about 1.5m

#

well yes, its a mix of everything.

#

its like 8m in lamps exp and 20m bxp over 450 keys on the particular promo im referencing

#

so you are right, its much more than just what im saying

#

the value of keys is just insane compared

#

we can also use the weakest bxp and lamps th promo with a value comparison and can probably argue that the bundle stars might be better

#

cherry picking is funny like that l0l

signal obsidian
#

I agree it makes most sense to look at the most busted promos. Few people use keys during bad ones anyway.

onyx pendant
#

Yo so what are like the results for this fricken experiment are we moving forward in this direction or what... more than half my friendlist is dissappeared and the minigames I played, they all died

#

Where can i see the statistics

dark spire
tough void
stoic sail
#

I feel like it would've been better to run this test after the beach event so people's inventories wouldn't risk drowning in both token overflow and key tokens they can't spend as their bank overflows with stuff

tame ether
#

Not having the key tokens stack up in inventory is nice

azure lava
supple pawn
#

They removed the limit on keys for th during the experiment.
They can still be gotten but they just continue to stack beyond the normal limit of 10.

tame ether
#

It sucks when they clog the inventory

pastel crag
#

Nah, buying these stars directly would be one hell of a rip off. Normally you can wait for a double key offer and get 900 keys for $120. That can get you hundreds of stars.

tame ether
#

Pay to win should be very expensive if they do it

#

Not dirt cheap/nearly free

#

Which devalues everything pretty much

raven prism
#

p2w shouldn't exist together with highscores

amber kernel
#

Agreed

tough void
tame ether
tough void
#

def havent seen it in years

#

I think the last one I got was mobile official release and they had a promo on the mobile version specifically.

tropic gazelle
#

idk; with this 'buy xp with cash', I just don't feel like playing rs

tame ether
#

They should know that I’m not buying any

tough void
#

you are the audience for those offers then :kekw:

tame ether
tough void
#

they want to tempt the nonbuyers instead of giving buyers discounted purchases

simple thorn
#

common industry practice

#

it's also why people who don't play for a while get 'a special offer just for you'

#

tempting to sin

tame ether
stoic sail
#

I don't think stars and lamps should be buyable. We get enough from events and game content

#

and some events had their own mtx going on too

#

leave the MTX for cosmetics

#

xp should be earned through game content

#

I don't even claim stars and lamps and I still get some handed out when spending my earned keys

stuck maple
#

Personally, RuneScape is my special game? I love this whole world so much. It's been a part of my life since I was very young and it's deeply important to me.

I typically log in and play a little bit every day. Even if I don't have a lot of time to play on any specific occasion, I've fallen into the habit of logging in and doing my dailies even if just to keep my streak going. I kinda like doing that

#

As far as daily keys?

#

I save them up and use them whenever there's a promotion with some sort of cosmetic going on

#

I don't like that that happens and to be completely honest, I don't like interacting with Treasure Hunter at all

#

It's really lame that they have these tradable tokens that you have like a .0001% chance of getting off Treasure Hunter, and then people hoard them and artificially inflate the price... blegh, it's just a bad situation. REALLY don't like that

#

I want to say maybe 85% of the time, I don't even usually claim the rewards I get off Treasure Hunter? I just convert them to oddments

#

I don't really like using lamps or stars or anything, it's not exciting to win those and it's not fun

#

I'm usually just after whatever walk animation or outfit or other such is available

#

And I really hate that I have to interact with this system to even stand a chance to get it

#

I would HAPPILY spend like $15 on a pack of cosmetics like from Solomon's Store as a direct purchase without having to gamble for them

#

I'm happy to support the game I love

#

But on principle, I really never buy keys

#

I've got a few responses to the survey I can share, if you guys might be interested?

steady steeple
#

I'm going to stress that you won't be the top poster in this thread even if you write a wall of text anyways Theo. This is the place for feedback, post away.

stuck maple
#

I'm just looking to share some thoughts!! This is an important issue, and I want to help out by sharing feedback and all haha

bitter wind
#

Just don't get hijacked again theo hans

stuck maple
supple pawn
# stoic sail daily keys were already doing that. It's the ones you get from skilling that go ...

Both daily keys and earned keys stack above their limit while the experiment is on.
It's also confirmed in the FAQ for the experiment.

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/mtx-experiment-1-disabling-treasure-hunter-live-now

Can I still earn Daily Challenge Keys and Quest Keys during the Experiment?

Yes! These Keys will be delivered immediately, though you will be unable to use them until after the Experiment ends. We've also made sure to remove the existing cap on the number of Keys you can store during the week of the Experiment so nothing ends up in your inventory.

Also, you can save daily keys? I thought they were use em or lose em every daily reset.

RuneScape
MTX Experiment 1: Disabling Treasure Hunter (LIVE NOW) - News - Ru...

Our first MTX Experiment on the path to permanent change for the game is on the way.

zealous halo
#

It is use them or lose them. Only during the experiment do they stack (rightfully so).

stoic sail
#

you can stack the daily challenge ones

#

tbh it's been nice not having to think about TH promos

tame ether
#

The use it or lose it fomo only serves to drive people away

wise wedge
#

also means people don't get the annoying bouncy chest overlay on each login or world hop

tame ether
#

It’s a form of manipulation designed to prey on the consumer

#

I may not know how to describe it properly or elegantly

#

But that is what it is

wise wedge
#

ideally if they keep TH they should just remove all forms of free keys

#

would solve a good amount of problems on its own

tame ether
#

If I never see an insulting 50% off paid keys again that might be okay

#

Or the bogo thing

wise wedge
#

hey at least those are discounts

#

but yeah they shouldn't show on login

tough void
tame ether
signal obsidian
#

What I find surprising is that osrs apparently has this image of being mtx-free, but when you think about it logically it isn't mtx-free at all. It has one of the most blatant forms of mtx: bonds. In a game where most items are tradable being able to buy the game currency with real money is super p2w. Yet people talk about if they introduce mtx to osrs it would die. So this made me think: it isn't about mtx-free or not but the implementation. Treasure hunter is basically gambling and every time you log in you see this chest in the corner of your screen which entices you to play. This isn't just p2w but also exploits people susceptible to gambling. Also we have seen with the hero pass that any new form of mtx receives backlash regardless of how p2w it actually is.

Since the mtx in osrs is well-received I think it should be like that in rs3 too. Ideally we should only have bonds and no other form of mtx. However if you want other forms like stars, I suggest to keep these forms limited and don't make big new mtx promotions. For example add only the star and bomb packages and never add any form of other p2w mtx. Also never do any discounts for these packages so people aren't exploited because of fomo. The reason for this is that any mtx promotion is bad for rs3's image. Osrs has a good image despite the mtx because they aren't doing mtx promotions whole the time and adding new mtx. They have bonds that always stay the same and that is it. I suggest a similar approach for rs3.

tropic gazelle
#

i'll buy extra bank space anyday lol

amber kernel
# signal obsidian What I find surprising is that osrs apparently has this image of being mtx-free,...

I mostly agree. I’m okay with cosmetic MTX, too, and I’m hoping that the cosmetic free worlds or some other form of disablement does well enough to implement for the folks who don’t want to engage with it. If we were to get new forms of MTX, it needs to be well valued and not p2w, or if it does have p2w elements, it needs to benefit the game (like bonds granting f2p access to membership).

#

But strictly p2w such as xp is just…not healthy in the long run

tough void
#

cosmetic free worlds. they didnt say anything about an mtx free world

#

just to help with the expectations

amber kernel
tough void
#

:kekw: it be like that

spare parrot
#

I've almost finished my survey

#

But I am confused

#

"Would you be happy to share the display name of your main RuneScape (RS3) character as part of your survey responses? This will only be used to link responses to anonymised account data internally. "

what does this mean?

#

Can anyone be sure that this does NOT show the public your in-game name? It ONLY shows it to Jagex mods?

#

I would hate to have to start the survey over, but I am a little stumped

tough void
spare parrot
tough void
spare parrot
# tough void yes

Thanks, I feel better about it. 🙂 I get anxious about these sorts of things sometimes.

#

Probably because I once had a stalker in a previous MMO I was part of.

I don't play that MMO anymore. They kind of drove me out

#

So privacy is anxious inducing sometimes

tough void
#

oh yeah, these discords dont tolerate that kind of thing

#

the stalking

#

i get it. you are thinking about yourself there. nws

weary remnant
# spare parrot "Would you be happy to share the display name of your main RuneScape (RS3) chara...

FWIW: These types of things is purely for their internal purposes.

Say for example, not that they would do this, but could potentially:

Say if one of your key factors in the survey was you felt like the experience gained per key was negligible for the keys purchased, but another player who also provided their RSN said that they got too much.

They may be able to pull information from those RSNs to see what packages have been purchased, potentially what promotions they were used on (based on dates), and get an even clearer example why there may be two completely opposite answers.

Thus why it would be optional, but can help these types of surveys. It wouldn't be used to target or harass you, secretly adjust your RSN to never get drops, or send some form of ninja to your door to silence you. Purely an optional extra link, which could potentially help them get a bigger picture on the answers if needed.

It can also potentially be used to weed out some fake entries which may have been done to use in one filter. Eg "have you ever partaken in TH ?" BUT provided a RSN that has only an OSRS profile.

It wouldn't invalidate it, but would be able to be used in just one of MANY filters used to gain insight of the overall picture and opinions both positive and negative.

(As these surveys go through many filters to get many end results, not just 1 singular end result, which is then discussed internally; so the more filters possible for positive and negative feedback the more accurate the results)

#

They won't make a name and shame list of supporters and those who don't support it. You can rest easy on that aspect.

#

I do a lot of these types of surveys for my work, so any and all potentially filterable questions and answers help get a more accurate viewpoint from the people answering them. But also allows variance to show separately where needed. Not used to only look at positives to skew results, but to make the results more accurate especially if it's on a potentially heated or controversial subject where people may be answering negatively just to answer negativity to change something and not honestly to allow change from their real thoughts. (Think of "remove mtx! Mtx bad!" Vs "selling experience is bad, it invalidates players progress")

tame ether
weary remnant
#

A lot of the time a survey company just provides the platform, or if given consent to the information will make the filtered results happen in multiple scopes in both positive and negatives and even take requests to filter for specific inquiries on top of it.

spare parrot
# weary remnant FWIW: These types of things is purely for their internal purposes. Say for exam...

Ah...thank you so so much for this very detailed response! It makes sense why it would be helpful in light of this. I did give them my RSN attached to my responses, and tried my best to give as detailed response as I could to the provided text boxes. I am hoping it helps.

I'm also working off of 4 hours of sleep right now, so I'm a bit frazzled. I hope I didn't make too many spelling errors, ahah. But I wasn't sure if the survey would still be open tomorrow, considering that TH was set to re-activate

weary remnant
#

deff rest! lol they will be able to look past typos and fix any weird context it may bring dw. 😛 they have thousands of responses to go through, so, it'll be perfectly fine. so deff rest where you can too

verbal flume
#

If th dissappears, it's not going to simply just go away. There will be some kind of replacement. And if that replacement comes in the form of just another broken mtx or membership/bond hikes, that'll just make things worse

#

Th removal would only make sense if jagex can come up with a healthier form of replacement, and I don't know if I have enough faith in Jagex to be able to pull that off. Selling knowledge bombs doesn't look that great either.

simple thorn
#

i trust em to take their time finding something acceptable

#

only time will tell if that trust is midplaced

verbal flume
#

thing is, there's a good chance they could come up with something that they think is good but is actually not

simple thorn
#

it being obvious never stopped em before with some of these things

frank cosmos
verbal flume
#

like i'm sure the small but vocal handful of people asking for cosmetic free worlds would have been far less visible had we actually gotten good looking cosmetics

simple thorn
#

there are some good looking cosmetics, the problem is that a large amount of em, straight up don't fit the game's aesthetics

verbal flume
#

i absolutlely laugh at the idea of cosmetic free worlds, yet i also think that 98% of the cosmetics in the game are hopelessly ugly

simple thorn
#

ideally the final version would allow players to toggle specific cosmetics as disabled for them to see

#

but that'd be way down the pipeline

verbal flume
#

but every cosmetic ever released into the game would have gotten some form of multi-step approval at one point or another

simple thorn
#

unfortunately, yes

verbal flume
#

which says a lot about this company's ability to figure out "what's good"

simple thorn
#

they've asked for feedback on some of the more recent stuff prior to release, and as far as i've seen, that had a positive response

frank cosmos
#

surely how good a cosmetic is, is subjective

simple thorn
#

some of em are objectively bad

frank cosmos
#

fair

simple thorn
#

and that's without even taking the particle spewing ones into account

verbal flume
#

while i genuinely like clothings, a large part of why i use weapon cosmetics is due to the wielding stance glitch (how you hold sword like spears etc)

#

like surely they must fix that before testing these cosmetic free worlds

#

but alas no

#

and this is a decade+ old bug

#

like is this really the best we can do

image.png
stuck maple
#

Oh shoot I never posted those responses I mentioned!!

tropic meadow
stuck maple
#

So in response to "Why do you feel strongly positive about the removal of Treasure Hunter?" I wrote uhh

#

`In truth, this response almost feels unnecessary. Let’s not pretend we’re still debating whether or not the community supports Treasure Hunter, or that anyone responding to this survey in good faith is about to use this opportunity to say anything positive about it.

Treasure Hunter is aggressive, predatory, and unfair. It's all been said before, time and time again. It contributes to a persistent sense of anxiety and apprehension about the game. When RuneScape was first created, the Gower brothers were committed to the principle that real-life wealth should never translate into in-game success. This is a value I still stand firmly behind. We’ve now strayed so far from that ideal that it feels as though Jagex has betrayed not only its founding promises, but also the entire community that has made the game what it is.

The relentless FOMO-driven promotions we’ve endured every few days for the past decade or more have steadily eroded the heart of the game I love. I’ll be glad when we can finally be rid of it for good.`

#

I felt a bit unsure writing this? Like there was still so much I don't know if I was able to express in saying this

verbal flume
stuck maple
#

But I kinda had to tell myself, you know, I can't write a 50 page essay in MLA format here

verbal flume
#

because you don't pay for membership, you don't even get a chance to achieve in this game at all

stuck maple
#

I definitely understand that

verbal flume
#

you don't even get to play the game properly if you don't cough up the $10 whatever per month

#

if that isn't unfair, i don't think what is

tropic meadow
#

that's just outright bad faith m8

verbal flume
#

i disagree therefore you are wrong

#

thanks

#

now i'm not going to pretend th is good nor am i saying i agree with it

#

i'm just saying that value isn't necessarily something that can be implemented in a game

stuck maple
#

They also asked about my thoughts on the bonus XP bundles and why I haven't bought any. To that I responded

`While this is certainly an improvement over Treasure Hunter, that’s really not saying much. Most things are better than Treasure Hunter. I still strongly dislike the idea of purchasing any form of in-game advantage with real-world money. Selling bonus XP stars and knowledge bombs directly is a slightly softer approach, since these items still require you to play the game to gain their benefit. You're not outright skipping gameplay like you would with lamps; even so, you're still paying to accelerate your progress, which dulls the sense of achievement and devalues the time and effort put into the game.

While less egregious, at its core this is still a form of pay-to-win. You're not buying XP directly, but you’re still paying for the game to be easier. That still chips away at what makes accomplishments feel meaningful in RuneScape. That's also just not the way I personally want to play. That's not the type of thing I want to spend money on.`

verbal flume
#

oh yeah bonus xp bundles aren't any healthier than th

#

i would have thought that they'd come up with something better than just selling dxp timers if they were removing a xp gacha

tough void
#

We will def disagree that non predatory bundles are equally unhealthy as th

#

i do get people dont like them tho

#

but lets not pretend the gacha/gambling is just as bad as non predatory methods

verbal flume
tropic meadow
#

tbh squeal of fortune is unhealthy even without buying spins

tough void
#

100% worse

#

its not close

#

technically the bundles are fomo so ig I cant use that

stuck maple
#

`This experiment has been great! I’ve seen more people playing the game, even lapsed players returning to the game and genuinely enjoying it, and that optimism has been contagious. For the first time in a long time, the community feels hopeful, and I feel hopeful too.

Without Treasure Hunter, I no longer feel anxious or guilty about missing some exclusive, limited-time rare cosmetic token locked behind gambling mechanics. The game feels much more welcoming. Treasure Hunter’s constant presence added a layer of stress and fatigue. The aggressive FOMO-driven promotions, the daily key pressure, the pop-ups advertising 50% off a purchase of 450 keys and so forth made RuneScape feel less like a world to explore and more like the storefront of a sketchy mobile game.

During this experiment, I’ve actually felt better about supporting the game in other ways. I even bought a couple of cosmetic outfits from Solomon’s Store. Now, when I choose to spend money on the game, I no longer have to feel guilty about feeding into a system I resent and can happily support the game I love in doing so.`

verbal flume
tough void
#

do you understand why gambling is bad?

verbal flume
#

what about knowledge bombs make them less predatory than th

tough void
#

the psychological part of it?

#

its not addiction driven

#

gambling is

#

you spend significantly less money too

#

on the bombs vs th

#

we can agree that mtx can be bad. yes

verbal flume
#

ah i get your logic now

#

though i still think knowlege bombs aren't really that great

tough void
#

thats fair to think yeah.

verbal flume
#

it does solve the gambling part, but not the other part

raven prism
#

They should just stick to selling cosmetics

#

But nothing that actually has any impact on the game

verbal flume
#

th replacement needs to be healthy, but also have enough merit to actually get people to buy it

#

knowledge bombs just don't seem to have enough of that

#

though i admittedly don't know what will

prisma seal
#

So what is the outcome of the experiment

raven prism
verbal flume
#

well we don't know yet

stuck maple
raven prism
#

And it will take some time to go through all the survey feedback and stuff

tough void
# verbal flume th replacement needs to be healthy, but also have enough merit to actually get p...

as much as it sounds like im pushing it, the 10x knowledge bombs are a super solid value for what it is. 10 hours of 50% increased exp isnt something small. The merit is easily seen in that. its also low price. Is it healthy? Im 50/50 on it. its not good but I dont think its world ending. The intent of the introduction does meet what it provides.

I did suggest on the survey to increase the price so its seen more as a once in a blue moon purchase instead of a cheap option that you solely rely on.

tough void
#

im welcome to a nice surprise if its given quickly

verbal flume
tough void
#

100% :kekw:

verbal flume
#

but the question is will more people spend money on knowledge bombs or whatever replacement

#

vs th

#

because whatever replaces th will surely have a lower arpu (within spenders)

#

so we'd need more people spending money on it to offset that

tough void
#

on the front of how TH preys on the will via gambling. TH is def going to have people buying it more than bundles me thinks

#

you just dont get the instant gratification the same way

verbal flume
#

th has less # of people spending on it, but more revenue per person
(hypothetical replacement) has more # of people spending money on it, but less revenue per person

is what i meant

#

i mean yeah th could make you get addicted to it once you get hooked into it

tough void
#

tbh we dont need people spending money on mtx. This is thankfully one of the topics jagex made. they are willing to take a financial hit

verbal flume
#

but it's stupidly hard to get anyone hooked into it in the first place

tough void
#

i disagree for one reason

verbal flume
#

because the value is so horrible

tough void
#

gambling irl translates

#

and its huge across the world

#

the people buying th on the norm already likely have a gambling problem elsewhere too

#

"likely"

verbal flume
#

true but if you look in the terms of how many % of people actively gamble

#

it's probably like less than 1%

tough void
#

id personally say its more than 1% but Your point is that its a small number. I can agree with that

verbal flume
#

th is very much a whale targeted model

#

if as a company you no longer have whales (or whales get smaller), you need a lot more ants to offset that

tough void
#

in most cases yes

#

the company model right now for RS is that they are ok with losing that financial gain

#

its a "gamble"

verbal flume
#

so they must come up with a model where more ants feel like it's worth spending

tough void
#

maybe maybe not.

verbal flume
#

i just need them to find something more sustainable than raising membership/bond prices

#

cuz that'll just make everyone unhappy

tough void
#

tbh Idk how much power they do have. I can say that if they try to offset it via mtx it wont fix the problem entirely and the stockholders will suffer from what they tried to prevent. This is what jagex is gambling on. They want to see subs go up in place of mtx (th removal as the idea)

verbal flume
tough void
#

it was a money grabbing experiment me thinks. they saw how good yak tracks were and tried to really send it

verbal flume
tough void
#

true, they also know that subs make up most of it.

#

they are wanting to implement something that increases subs instead of push mtx as a replacement of th

verbal flume
#

i personally think a large part of why yak track/hero pass failed was not only just the mtx part of it, but also how stupidly grindy it was

#

and as such how it heavily dicatated your in-game activity

#

which is not how passes in other games usually work

tough void
#

I actually think the less grindy and nonmtx version of hero pass was awesome

verbal flume
#

like bro you want me to go out and mine 400 ores

tough void
#

l0l

verbal flume
#

i'd rather have that figure be 10

#

and spend the rest of my game time doing retrim reqs/pvm

#

most game passes don't take more than ~20-30mins of playtime per day

#

runescape's required 2+hrs

verbal flume
stoic sail
tame ether
tawdry jetty
# verbal flume i absolutlely laugh at the idea of cosmetic free worlds, yet i also think that 9...

I really believe that they could make good money just designing thoughtful cosmetics and charging a straight up price for them (not gambling keys for them). Now I don't want to make claims of whether or not it would supplement TH revenue fully, but I know that high design, unique cosmetics would definitely be super coveted by the player base and would at least help cover up for the loss of TH.

The challenge here is how not to go down the "more bloom, more particles, more big" route where everyone is just a walking fountain of pixels and the whole game just looks stupid lol.

I hope Jagex takes their time to find the right replacement/s and does not hurry this, those of us who want TH gone I'm sure would be willing to wait for the right solution.

#

I don't know if they addressed this but my biggest worry atm is that they come back and say alright guys TH is gone and membership prices have gone up 3x so that we can support the game. I don't beleive that they would do this, the survey from a while ago showed people would not put up with that. But idk somehow it's still a fear I have lol.

steady steeple
tawdry jetty
#

I wasn't serious about the 3x, more of an exaggeration

verbal flume
steady steeple
verbal flume
#

People pay much closer to $7-9

tough void
#

I pay premier but im a 6.99 or... 7.99 grandfathered rate

#

7.95 specifically

#

(I just checked)

verbal flume
#

12 month premier just equates to 8.29 per month

#

i wonder how much people are grandfathered at $5

tough void
#

id imagine not a lot

tame ether
tawdry jetty
tame ether
#

Yep

solar token
verbal flume
#

we don't live in an ideal world

raven prism
#

But we could be living in one

#

If they only sell cosmetics going forward

#

Just because the world isn't ideal yet doesn't mean we can't start making it closer to ideal

languid narwhal
#

TH is back let's gooooooo

steady steeple
#

Permanent change can't come soon enough

#

Finger crossed it gets deleted

languid narwhal
#

Did you buy all the star bundles like they wanted you to?

raven prism
#

Did they want us to? Eh. They don't mind it but it's not like the goal was for everyone to buy them everyday

simple thorn
#

Wouldn't have added it, if they didn't expect some fish to bite

steady steeple
languid narwhal
#

Nice. Now TH is the same -- you don't have to use it! Great right?

steady steeple
#

Not great until it cease existing. But idk why I bother with the bait.

languid narwhal
#

"I don't use it so nobody else should either"

steady steeple
#

yes

#

I resubbed due to the experiments but if TH stays in the perma change I'll just quit again permanently

languid narwhal
#

If what other people do affects your enjoyment of the game that much, then yeah probably better off just not playing tbh

raven prism
#

So those people could get their fix in

steady steeple
#

When even the CEO is saying its hurting the game and its why the game isn't growing I'm inclined to believe him

#

the playerbase has been saying so for years

simple thorn
#

Ignoring a fire, doesn't make it go away, even less so when other people pile on wood

languid narwhal
steady steeple
#

So Jagex is lying then?

simple thorn
#

In the end, everyone inhales the smoke

raven prism
#

th may not be 100% of the problem

#

But it's still part of it

simple thorn
#

Unfortunely stuff like mtx, is hard to implement in a way that isn't detrimental to the game longterm

#

Because in it's core, it goes against everything an rpg stands for

steady steeple
simple thorn
#

When irl money, is a foundational pillar

steady steeple
#

Have you not watched the video by jagex or something if you say its not why at all

simple thorn
#

Might've been better just to link the video light

steady steeple
#

I don't think most people actually click on videos they get linked even if its 5 mins

simple thorn
#

I know

#

But as a gesture of good will

amber kernel
steady steeple
#

Just wanted to post these screens from the video where Jagex is saying the same thing players are

simple thorn
#

Tbh these should be pinned

steady steeple
#

TL;DR monetisation is harming the game and being a financial risk to the longevity of the game

languid narwhal
simple thorn
steady steeple
#

no no

#

it was 86%

amber kernel
#

Oh I forgot about that one

simple thorn
steady steeple
#

I'm pretty sure :^)

languid narwhal
#

If TH is removed, a new MTX system will take its place. It's literally the point of these experiments.

steady steeple
#

Jagex has also explicitly said nobody should feel the need to buy the bundles to support TH being removed

#

and that the bundles existence is part of the feedback they're looking for

simple thorn
steady steeple
#

So no its not the "literal" point of the experiment

#

They're throwing a wide net

#

This is testing whether buyable xp should be in the game at all, and if so, what would be an acceptable form

#

There is the real possibility of there not being an acceptable form

simple thorn
languid narwhal
#

They won't remove it completely, they've said they rely on MTX

simple thorn
#

The opposite actually

steady steeple
#

Well nobody is saying that MTX is entirely gone

simple thorn
#

And numbers have shown that for years

steady steeple
#

Bonds and cosmetics will exist

languid narwhal
#

If you think the numbers from the bundles won't affect their TH decision, I promise you are mistaken

#

It's a business

steady steeple
#

Jagex has said they expect a revenue hit and that bundles wouldn't remotely match TH

#

and they've gotten greenlight to take said revenue hit with aim to grow game long term

languid narwhal
#

I'd grow exhausted going back through what Jagex has said throughout the years vs what is actually done

rigid ledge
#

how do yall feel about the currency events where you can buy double currency gain with bonds/money

steady steeple
raven prism
#

Nvm i do

rigid ledge
#

like wrapping paper

steady steeple
languid narwhal
steady steeple
raven prism
#

Those events aren't healthy for the game imo

languid narwhal
raven prism
#

The amount of free xp they give out

steady steeple
raven prism
#

And that without me ever using a bond for the double currency

simple thorn
steady steeple
#

My take is that lying at every step here makes no sense

simple thorn
#

Don't trust em to stay fair

steady steeple
#

They'd just not initate this in the first place if they intended to do nothing

#

of course we should keep them to their words

#

But nothing here makes sense if we walk in with the premise of they're going to rug pull

languid narwhal
steady steeple
#

The safer business move would be to do nothing

steady steeple
#

mtx is shrinking rapidly as an income source for them and cannibalising sub income

raven prism
#

Jagex wants money. Keeping TH as it is isn't the way for them to make more money

steady steeple
#

You know what a company don't want? To have all their eggs in one basket

raven prism
#

They know that and they are looking to fix it

steady steeple
#

Crashing RS3 with no survivors by clinging to a long term failing business strategy

#

means that the company would bet everything on OSRS

#

and thats not great for company valuation

#

thats why you see companies often do failing experiments to try to get more variety in revenue sources

#

hell, why Jagex has tried (and failed) to make a lot of games over the years

#

You know whats safer than making a new game, cost wise?

#

Salvaging a game thats already successful before it hits the drain

#

Nobody is under the illusion that jagex isn't a company, doesn't care about income, or the like

#

Just whether we think Jagex has realised that the monetisation strategy right now is actively hurting the game and the company

#

Based on what Jagex has said, that seems like the easiest answer

raven prism
#

I think most of our opinions are soemthing like "What Jagex is saying is good. But let's wait for what they deliver before burning down their headquarters"

steady steeple
#

The premise of MTX is always the best option isn't inherently true

steady steeple
#

Why would I metaphorically grab my pitchfork for starting what I want to happen

#

If they fail thats the moment to go for the pitchforks

raven prism
#

Like yeah i've seen them fail do deliver the hype more often then not

#

But i love this game and i still have the hopes jagex does aswell

steady steeple
#

Tbh I've never seen them start the monetisation topic until now

#

Only ever backpedal when going too far before

#

so we're in uncharted territory

languid narwhal
#

They're definitely attempting a more proactive approach here rather than a reactive one, and I appreciate that

#

It just so happens that the first experiment was taking away something I've enjoyed and I immediately had the player base telling me to basically stop playing this game I've played for over 20 years just because I liked to use my daily keys

#

Not all on here specifically, but throughout communities that's been the general tone

steady steeple
#

I've had friends that unironically have rejoined for the experiment

#

on top of myself

#

so I do know for sure there is an audience for these changes

languid narwhal
#

I believe it. It's evident through the channels.

small stream
#

I miss the no th stuff

signal obsidian
rigid ledge
#

does it matter what you're getting out of the event?

#

what if it was a mostly cosmetic focused thing like hero pass was and you paid for double xp gain?

steady steeple
rigid ledge
#

double xp gain as in, you progress the pass twice as fast, not double skill xp

signal obsidian
#

Even if it is cosmetics, it can be seen as an indirect form of gambling.

steady steeple
#

Its the go to example for overpowered events that hurt gameplay balance

rigid ledge
#

if that wasn't obvious

steady steeple
#

It wasn't obvious because paper is kinda notorious for handouts

rigid ledge
#

true

#

there's been alot of other currency events too that are less egregious

#

agents of fury and shifting sands, etc

simple thorn
#

Ya say that, but shifting sands took a lot of gametime to complete without payjng

signal obsidian
#

Yea I didn't complete it

dark spire
simple thorn
#

It's implied, by adding it at all

#

Hence all the people saying silly thinga like buying them

languid narwhal
dark spire
#

I honestly shouldn't have even responded, reading your messages it's clear you are just rage baiting

#

I thought it was genuine but gg

languid narwhal
#

I'm really not though haha

signal obsidian
#

Honestly I wouldn't expect many people to buy the packages when the status of treasure hunter is unsure

vagrant dagger
#

yeah there are a lot of bad faith comments in here

#

that needs to stop

#

keep things objective. post your feedback, don't insult others, don't engage in bad faith arguments, don't try to have "Gotcha!" moments with each other, and keep it constructive

tough void
vagrant dagger
#

probably soon

#

i don't lock the threads the CM make for stuff like this. i have already spoken with azanna about it earlier and he is going to speak with hooli later this week

dark spire
#

I hope we don't end up waiting months before we see any data on this test

vagrant dagger
#

@civic crane let’s not have that

stuck maple
#

I knew it couldn't last, but it's still sad to see

#

Hopefully what we've learned from this will bring us to a future where this can be the reality 🙏

velvet tendon
#

I was personally a huge fan of this. I had convinced a friend to play rs3 during the event. He was having a blast. The experiment ended and he saw how he could train a skill for 4 hours to get a levelup or he could instead use 10 keys for 3 levels and he immediately quit and now plays osrs because he realized his time wasn't actually valued in rs3

proven jackal
#

I feel we are on a pivotal point for rs3. There is a reason osrs is thriving and rs3 isn't. MTX is a huge part of that.

solar token
#

its not going to attract the sweaty nerds that osrs did to WoW players

#

plus we have correlation with MTX being in place and player counts dwindling

solar token
# velvet tendon I was personally a huge fan of this. I had convinced a friend to play rs3 during...

Honestly cant stress this enough. Players that will more reliably play and have frequent online presence want their merit appreciated. having an opportunity to even a small subsect of the population that wants to still be able to bypass the grind with purchasable xp or bonus xp, hinders other players drive to play. (and no, no one should have to be forced to play other game modes like Ironman to avoid this. Players should be able to play their main and enjoy their progress)