#MTX Experiment 1: Disabling Treasure Hunter (July 22 - 28)

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

tough void
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Ah

tawdry jetty
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thats why our membership is cheaper, our bonds are cheaper, our keys are cheaper

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my point is that, if they dont match the parity that keys had for thsi experiment

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the data will be wrong regarding all non "first word" countries

leaden sparrow
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I agree

tawdry jetty
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and they will say oh these countries dont want to participate

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when in fact we would love it but its just not in parity with the past

tough void
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Good input imo.

tawdry jetty
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and it might lead to the update not going through, when it should

leaden sparrow
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They've mentioned that purchasing/not purchasing the pack(s) will not skew the data they're looking for

tawdry jetty
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okay, that's good news

tough void
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super valid concern tho

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theyll see it in their regional data

leaden sparrow
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Agree

tawdry jetty
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right. Thats what I was thinking, I don't want TH to stay on because of "lack of interest" in certain regions

manic hound
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oo regional mtx wild

tough void
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its typically not talked about in data but that kind of thing is seen yeah

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@fluid hinge

fluid hinge
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For me, a player who uses TH keys but never buys anything by MTX, this experiment is purely a loss. It might be all right if I got some other kind of reward for play activities which currently give keys, but as it is, I am simply losing a fair amount and gaining nothing. Iget TH keys as a benefit of paying for my premium account...again, I lose them during this experiment. I am unhappy.

tough void
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you arent losing them last I recalled

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they stack up still just cant be used right now

fluid hinge
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The experiment does nothing for me, because I am not going to pay money above my premium subscription. I do know I get the keys back later, but Id rather just have them now.

tough void
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understandable.

fluid hinge
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Just my input. The present situation will resolve itself, but this is a reaction to the experiment as well.

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TH for me is not something I buy. Ive never bought a key. Its a benefit of play, and I like it on the whole. I also like dailies...I know Im a strange creature, but I am probably not unique.

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It may be too generous, thats another issue. But I dont want it to go away.

wise wedge
fluid hinge
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I dont see that.

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I grind plenty.

wise wedge
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And the items you earn or buy from other players are worth less than intended

tough void
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any suggestions or feedback?

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what would you like to see improved aurelie?

fluid hinge
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I am not certain. I find the tone of this particular experiment distressing, because it takes away something that benefits me and exchanges it for something I dont engage in (MTX).

tough void
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nodders think about it for a few days and come back with thoughts?

wise wedge
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I think their feedback is mainly that they prefer TH as-is

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they already gave a lot of thoughts; no need to pressure 'em for more

fluid hinge
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An issue of justice...one of the things I get for my premium membership is TH keys. What woudl I get instead?

wise wedge
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perhaps they could make runemetrics pro free

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though there doesn't necessarily need to be a replacement

dusty flare
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Can't use the summer pinata loot bag for the duration of this event but I can't bank it either :/

Just a bunch of things that'll clutter my inventory until all this goes away or toss them.

wise wedge
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premier membership has other flaws that technically make it pay-to-win too

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like the premier artefact, boss instances, vip world, badge, cosmetic armour, teleport, and tokens

premier membership in OSRS doesn't confer these benefits because they're technically pay2win and bad for the game

tough void
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im also trying to avoid feedback debates personally. @ 0400. you right they said their stance. im not going to pick it apart.

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jmods will see it and take note

fluid hinge
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Im not interesting in debating with other players. Im stating my reaction to the experiment.

tough void
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wait actually?

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the pinata isnt useable?

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even tho its earnable?

fluid hinge
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and the reply Id be interested in is not a debate with other players, but what kind of modification of the game is actually envisaged here. The one embodied in this experiment is total loss for someone who plays as I do.

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summer pinatas are apparently broken by the experiment. Im sure that is unintentional. I havent tested it myself yet.

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I think what people are saying is that you cant open loot bags and you get the message that TH is dsabled.

dusty flare
dusty flare
fluid hinge
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I believe it, I just havent tried it yet.

dusty flare
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I wonder what the sandy scrolls will do too for their loot result. I can do it for science.

wise wedge
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sandy clues only give clue items so it's fine

fluid hinge
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I think the broken loot bag is a severe enough problem that they will be moved to fix it before the experiment ends. At any rate I would hope so.

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anyway, Ive said my piece.

dusty flare
spare parrot
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Now that they're event rewards, I feel like this was just an unintentional consequence

fluid hinge
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Its actually really unacceptable for this to happen for a week in the middle of the beach event! I hope they fix it promptly.

sinful root
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hello i don't care for the removal of the key if there is something in exchange to replace the deal with the premium club because it feel like were being stolen a week of extra xp that we paid for, the premier club benefit being the base of the contract.

weary remnant
# sinful root hello i don't care for the removal of the key if there is something in exchange ...

Fwiw: as stated in the blog post you're still going to keep the daily keys accumulated if you login during the experiments, you'll just get them after the experiments as well as they temp upped/removed the 100-earned key limits so you can redeem key tokens and continue quests while they're unusable

Just nothing is set in stone for any perm changes so at least during the experiments they allow you to keep the keys earned

onyx pendant
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WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO - - - NONE OF MY FRIENDS ARE ONLINE ANYMORE

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ITS ONLY ME AND $16.99 - $5.99 SPINS

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WHERE ARE MY FRIENDS

sinful root
weary remnant
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No worries it's understandable why it would look that way dw. They covered that base for now at least

fluid hinge
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just dont open any pinatas.

bronze wedge
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20 fucking euro for 10 bombs? have you lost your minds?

fluid hinge
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For me this experiment is totally a loss. I dont buy MTX at all under any circumstances. So I lose benefits and gain nothing.

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and the pinata thing in the last week of the beach is a serious own goal

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'Yes, I know Ill be able to open the keys eventually. But the experiment does nothing that is of any interest to me.

glossy breach
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trying to find out where we suppose to do the "survey /feed back" for stopping keys . Why they always trying to do stuff to keep a handful of people happy ? seems weird and then the game looses focus changing stuff all the time always seems to lead to issues . Just leave stuff alone . Thats not what I have to say in the survey though 😛

sinful root
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why only gathering info on MTX but stoping treasure keys that are not only obtainable through the market.

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i really enjoy the possibility to randomly get 50m and with 8x multiplier

neat niche
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no more reason for me to even log in without treasure hunter. It was my daily free gambling bit with the 12 months membership.

clever reef
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this experiment makes no sense at all for me. removed th and hit me in the face with more mtx + buyable xp? i thought mtx + buyable xp were the problem. Again, what is the goal of this?

slow trench
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It's bonus exp and dxp bomb

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It's not 'free' exp like lamps or proteans, 'accelerated' exp is more accurate

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It's kinda like buying a level skip in other mmos but you still have to progress from the start but faster

neat niche
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well old school runescape is welcoming rs3 players, way to further kill rs3

clever reef
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Yes, you're right, it's a little better... i still don't like it at all, but a little better

slow trench
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Osrs and rs3 Populations have gone back and forth for ages

leaden sparrow
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A lot of the complaints I'm seeing regarding the removal of TH seem to be predicated on individual experiences being impacted, particularly those who don't spend money, but utilize daily or free keys. In my opinion, this is a band-aid that needs to be ripped for the greater good of the game, and needs to happen sooner rather than later, and there can be compromises in order to provide these individuals the same level of satisfaction with their involvement of these MTX related boosts and bonuses.

Most importantly, the output of TH specific rewards, i.e, proteans, dummies, and lamps have seriously rotted the core of this game. Early game progression is completely wiped out, it requires no effort to use these items in order to bypass the early levels, for example 1 -> 50 agility and devalues a lot of the content that exists in the game. This can be a negative experience in the long run because you'll see players who are "high level", but have little to zero knowledge on how the game actually works at its root, causing burn out or inability to enjoy the game as it was supposed to be enjoyed.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have high level players who have played the game for a very long time no longer engage with it because what is the point when you can just login, spin your wheel, and collect your daily task keys, and make the same progress you would've gained by playing the game for an hour or two+? There's a serious rot where the game can be turned into a simple daily login adventure and then be forgotten, and thus ruins the point of the video game, you now have a daily checklist to do and you don't actually play the game.

As for compromises, I've already brought it up previously in this thread, but TH and direct XP need to be removed from this game quickly, and I propose a solution where keys are eradicated, and we retain the oddments store and system. For example, instead of 2 daily keys when you login, you'll get 500 oddments (250 oddments per key), and would be a smoother transition for those who interact with the TH/daily system, and still be able to participate the way they presently do with the game. I'd only suggest removing lamps themselves from the oddments store and encourage people to participate with the game itself in the form of bonus XP.

wise wedge
leaden sparrow
wise wedge
wise wedge
slow trench
leaden sparrow
clever reef
leaden sparrow
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As much as that would "work", I think we need to get rid of the "lootbox" system of MTX, and make things directly purchasable. They'll have to eventually anyways because the EU is putting their foot down on gambling in video games

slow trench
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I hated the gambling aspect for cosmetics

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I pay 15 bucks for an outfit on wow or xiv or gw2 and I get the outfit

leaden sparrow
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Exactly

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I'd be more than happy to spend like $20 on the witch walk override, for example

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I'm a bit of a "whale", when it comes to this stuff, so my opinion is kind of skewed. But I hate the spin the wheel nature of MTX

slow trench
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I paid more for xiv cosmetics the past year I've been playing it than my years of playing runescape just from the sheer fact that I buy I get it on my character

leaden sparrow
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Spot on

slow trench
# leaden sparrow Spot on

My actual major issues with th other than lol gacha are

  1. It's too in your face when you're a new player, I started a new account to give it bonds for osrs gaming and it felt very intrusive, for contrast in xiv I only realised there was a cash shop when I was buying the game after I finished the free trial story and was too hooked to not go into shadowbringers expansion, after over 200+ hours and gw2 I put in like 20 hrs so far and while it is present in your interface there's no blaring in your face
  2. It skips a good chunk of the formative aspects of the game
  3. Stuff like silverhawks are patchwork solutions rather than fixing the core issues with agility like exp rates or gameplay
leaden sparrow
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The MTX in this game comes from mobile-style intrusion and surprise surprise, the previous CEO of this company has moved onto mobile games. It's why I have a bit of faith in Mod North to clean it up and show us that his values regarding integrity will be a net positive moving forward.

slow trench
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It was a melee pr run madeg

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Let me fucking ignore the damn thing if I want to reeee

leaden sparrow
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👍

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Agree

slow trench
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I couldn't care less if square sold a 30 dollar outfit because it doesn't affect my gameplay in any way, the speed boost from mtx mounts are negligible since you can unlock flying in like 25 mins instead of 30 mins in a zone and they don't work in areas where the increased speed is an actual advantage like field operations vs some shit clogging my inventory in a game where inventory management is an actual thing

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Sure one can argue that it's easy for me to just dump the keys into oddments or play iron but why should I play a self sustained challenge mode when one of the attractions of the game is the player economy

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And I don't WANT to interact with the system in the first place I can perfectly ignore cash shops in other mmos, osrs doesn't bonk me on the head to buy bonds

manic hound
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i wonder how hard itd be to impliment a little check box in settings
Disable all mtx popups/reminders

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i mean its not hard to click the little x but, seems to annoy some people anyway lol

tawny orchid
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absolutely love it

leaden sparrow
tawny orchid
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best update ever
never bring th back

frank cosmos
bitter wind
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Heads-up, Mod Hooli commented on the new marketplace popup icon:

First up, the repeat appearances you experienced this morning. I've confirmed this was a bug, and the mini pop-up was only meant to appear once. Apologies for the pop-up spam!

Beyond that, we've had a conversation about the use of the mini pop-up itself. The intent was to make sure there was a good level of awareness of the Bundles existing as not everyone reads Newsposts.

That said, this just doesn't feel like the right solution to solve that problem. It doesn't match our intent of direction for this project, and our thinking on what a final proposal could look like. Because of that, we're pulling the pop-up from the game entirely asap today.

You will get one more round of 'red notifications' identifying the Bundles as new, like anything in the Marketplace, as a result of the change being deployed. After that, no more notifications or pop-ups.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts early so we could jump on this.

livid wyvern
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The fact that you have to pay for bonus XP is an absurdity. The argumentation that many players have not enough time to play and want to progress quickly anyway is ridiculous. The only goal of Jagex is obvious: Making money. That only goal became clear about one year ago. My net playing time is about one year. One entire year of my life! I regret it. I'm 64 and just cancelled my membership.

frank cosmos
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personally i dont mind bxp, cos at least you still have to play the game

craggy glacier
wise wedge
frank cosmos
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sure but still better than just lamping everything

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at least you still have to obtain supplies

slow trench
bitter wind
craggy glacier
wise wedge
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Better than zero supplies but still bad

frank cosmos
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i mean fair point

wise wedge
slow trench
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Proteans and lamps are far more damaging than bxp

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For the identity and gameplay of runescape

wise wedge
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It took you 9k hours to realize the game is super anticonsumer?! I thought at that point we we all knew but just accepted it

livid wyvern
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Satisfaction is when you play for achieving your goal. Buying bonus xp is terrible.

craggy glacier
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Still an advantage

steady steeple
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Based

frank cosmos
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i still get just as much satisfaction when i use bxp tbh, i play the game for my own enjoyment not to flex on others

steady steeple
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Wait why did that go away

slow trench
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Bxp is like 'ehh fair enough' middle ground between people who hate th and people who feel the inclusion of th is important for them to catch up or progress at an accelerated rate

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Ideally I wouldn't want bxp either but it's like whatever as long as lamps and proteans go I'll take the L

steady steeple
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Anyways yeah Hooli did confirm that the popup is gone

craggy glacier
steady steeple
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Its better than direct xp like lamps, who just skip using resources entirely

wise wedge
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Sometimes you miss satisfaction cuz you skip over multiple levels at once

steady steeple
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Ultimately the bxp that tend to work, is the one you have to work for and earn via ingame activities

craggy glacier
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What if I'm poor in person, I have to play twice as hard? The rich kids get a leg up?

wise wedge
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I did 110–120 fletch faster than a single abyss RC run

craggy glacier
steady steeple
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Few people will complain about BXP from barb assault, because you're making an active choice to do an active complex activity

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Its an opportunity cost and you choose to spend your game time a certain way

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Using your wallet to get bxp don't really work well

wise wedge
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I like that the BA BXP makes people play it because it's very worthwhile but I think it should be removed too

slow trench
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Personally I'd rather they rebalance exp rates and/or introduce new methods to train

craggy glacier
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Even Afk methods

slow trench
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Me and someone in design chat were cooking a crafting method for mid to endgame where you get commissions from the crafting guild to adorn some expensive stuff like ceremonial swords, holy symbols, thrones etc as a gem dump and interactive crafting

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If you do X amount of them like 100 you get a cosmetic of that thing

steady steeple
wise wedge
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support

steady steeple
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because damn does gems need a sink

wise wedge
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if they add thrones then should get that for PoH throne

steady steeple
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Steal cosmetic reward from travelling artisan event that happened at crafting guild a few years back

steady steeple
slow trench
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So doing 100 thrones gets you a sitting override, sword get you overrides etc

wise wedge
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I don't think RS needs more sitting overrides that spawn chairs

slow trench
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It's just an example

wise wedge
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I know it made MapleStory and Guild Wars MILLIONS of dollars

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But would prefer PoH

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It could also be both

slow trench
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Both

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Both is good

steady steeple
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personally if I can get toggles for cosmetics I'm much more amendable to cosmetics in general

wise wedge
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Actually summoning a throne is more realistic than a regular chair

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Considering how often IRL leaders had their throne transported to random places for them to sit at

slow trench
zealous halo
slow trench
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I'm tired of the dumb ponytails with partyhat and cape style

bitter wind
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idk if it's used as scenery anywhere ingame but it's a badass sitting surface

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heck make it an unlock from Aris's shop for Dimension of Disaster, has a very Zemouregal/New Varrock vibe

wise wedge
wise wedge
steady steeple
slow trench
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U can sit while fishing on xiv and a chair appears

manic hound
steady steeple
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jagex put out feedback thread and survey on reddit for TH experiment

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As I said earlier, yes the existence of bundles are up for discussion

dark spire
# steady steeple

"How the game feels without treasure hunter" It feels good man... It feels good

steady steeple
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Definitely take the survey in the thread if you're interested enough in the topic to talk in here

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I thought the option in it were solid

dark spire
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which is a massive W

flint swallow
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I definitely don’t think that’s an undeniable fact. I think the vast majority of people who buy membership are doing it to play the full game.

steady steeple
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Membership is almost entirely sold for the sake of accessing most of the game

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What a wild claim to say that people buy membership due to TH

simple thorn
zealous halo
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Subscribe to claim this 200M gp prize

fluid hinge
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The ONLY thing Im happy about in connection with this experiment...I appreciate that loot pinatas were fixed promptly.

raven prism
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I can't wait to see all the unintended things that get disabled during the dxp experiment

fluid hinge
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This experiment is a dead loss for me, and there must be other players like me. I do not do MTX at all, so I make no use of the new stuff, Im just obstructed from using my TH keys, which I do not buy: I get them from membership or gameplay, and I cant use oddments, and so I am simply distressed.

raven prism
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The experiment isn't a "dead loss" it's really just delayed gains

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You're not losing anything. You just get it later

fluid hinge
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Getting something later is in fact losing value.

obsidian beacon
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Of course as soon as you can't use keys and get one in your inventory you can't use presets any more for the rest of the week......

raven prism
fluid hinge
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and I could lose it if I forget that I have to use all of them the first day I log in.

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They really didnt. The loot bag bug illustrated that.

raven prism
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The lootbag also "should" have nothing to do with this experiment so that's easy to miss

fluid hinge
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I would just like this experiment to go away.

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shushes again, Ive filled out the survey and stated my attitude. Its just annoying.

simple thorn
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Just take the medicine, it might be bitter now, but it's good for you long term

fluid hinge
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I suppose I can say this: I woudl be less annoyed if the new content could be accessed not only with cash, but with oddments, available through membership or gamplay as TH keys are. Then I would be considering whether I liked one thing better than another, rather than whether I liked nothing better than something.

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I've already stated why it isnt good for me.

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I just plain objectively get nothing from it.

simple thorn
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Having to wait for your treat isn't denying you it

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Patience

fluid hinge
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Do you have any business knowledge? A good in the future is worth less than a good in the present. Delay can be worthwhile if you get some other benefit from it. I get none: Im not going to use the MTX stuff at all.

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Of course Ill wait and use my keys when I can. But dont tell me its good for me, it objectively isnt, I get no benefit.

simple thorn
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Short term approach is why we're in this situation in the first place

raven prism
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It's also not objectively bad

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Like if you get a small xp lamp now or in a week. If anything it could give you more xp next week if you levelled the skill up actually training the skill

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BUt if you don't level the skill you get the same xp now as you would in a week

simple thorn
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Being able to hold off on rewards builds anticipation making that sweet release all the better

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Much like substance abuse, nonstop access is problematic

wraith flame
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I don't really understand the point of this experiment. They pitch it as though they're removing MTX, but they haven't. It just works differently now. Instead of buying keys, you buy 4 stars for $2.

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It's a more "direct" purchase, but it's still MTX.

raven prism
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That's you misunderstanding what they are pitching

fluid hinge
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I dont buy keys at all. Im simply being denied use of the ones I earn from membership or gameplay.

raven prism
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They are pitching removal or changes. Not just removal

simple thorn
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None are wasted or prevented, and you can build up more than under regular circumstances

raven prism
simple thorn
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Meaning it's literally a better deal for you

wraith flame
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So when is the experiement where we experience RS3 without any MTX at all?

raven prism
fluid hinge
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Thats the way I play. Which is why I get no benefit.

simple thorn
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Membership isn't mtx

wraith flame
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You can have bonds without buying xp? wth you on about?

raven prism
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Maybe membership takes it a step to far. But bonds are definetly mtx

wraith flame
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look at the massive success of osrs with only bonds

simple thorn
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Osrs would be fine without bonds

raven prism
fluid hinge
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I dont use bonds at all. I pay cash for premium membership, and I just play. I dont buy anything else.

wraith flame
fluid hinge
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so I am just losing.

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with this experiment.

simple thorn
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Just all at once

fluid hinge
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which is a negative.

raven prism
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Let's just let aurelie feel how they want

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It's not up to us to change their feelings or tell them what to think

wraith flame
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anyway, this week's experiment is kinda missing the mark. I don't think we'll get an experiment that removes all mtx (except bonds), which is what everyone really wants. so this is all a mute point

vagrant dagger
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moot*

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it is a moot point

wraith flame
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we'll continue having mtx in RS3, just not with keys, and the game will continue to fail

fluid hinge
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I dont care whether others have mtx. I dont care to use it myself.

vagrant dagger
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also

simple thorn
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Followup will be based on results

vagrant dagger
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lets quit responding and debating with each other

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just post your feedback and leave it at that

wraith flame
fluid hinge
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Indeed. The point is for the devs to get feedback, I stated mine.

steady steeple
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If you want them to not have MTX at all (for example, if you dislike the bundles) I'd recommend taking the survey they put out

raven prism
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It's important to leanr the differences to give proper feedback so devs know what you like/dislike. Would just buyable cosmetics be an okay form of mtx for you?

wraith flame
fluid hinge
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Dont assume that your pet peeves are everyones: obviously some people like mtx, because it works, people pay for it. I dont buy mtx, but I dont object to it existing. What I mind here is something being taken away from me which I have paid for already and being offered mtx as a substitute, which I wont use.

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and yes, it is temporary. But it is pure loss for me (if not that great a one).

wraith flame
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I doubt they'll have this all sorted by October, so hold off on buying premium again until you know what the next year will bring

steady steeple
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Yeah last experiment ends on september 30th, no shot the perma changes are in october

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The optimistic view is that hopefully whatever they're cooking is done to capitalise around leagues ending

raven prism
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I don't even have any faith in seeing any changes this year tbh

fluid hinge
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I dont need any changes, I just want to play, and this is a distraction.

raven prism
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You might not. Lots of other do want change

steady steeple
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I resubbed today due to this experiment 🥳

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currently loading cache in lobby

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exciting times

autumn sentinel
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Bring back treasure hunter!!!! I rely on lamps and stars to level and I can't afford to buy the big packs or keys etc. Can't even open the loot bags from pinatas! Epic fail!!!!

raven prism
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Fun fact. They fixed the loot bags like 3 or 4 hours ago

rigid ledge
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initial impressions for me

  • i really like the little box of TH not being there incessantly wanting my attention every time i enter the game
  • the stars are almost certainly too expensive compared to what an equivalent amount of money spent on keys could get you
    • i knew there would be some "loss in efficiency" compared to playing smartly around favourable promos with your bought keys, but the current gap between that and the star packs is too great for my tastes
    • and just in case it wasn't obvious, having no bought xp or bonus xp is of course the ideal for me and many others, but i wanted to also give some actionable feedback within the set parameters
tame ether
languid narwhal
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Oddments too? And our other option is to spend real money on a handful of stars?!? I'm over this experiment already

rigid ledge
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i would imagine it being overlooked but they should probably double the daily limit on key tokens you can buy with oddments for next week if they wanna be consistent with the whole "not missing any keys" thing

steady steeple
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Isn't the option to just play the game for xp?

rigid ledge
languid narwhal
steady steeple
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I mean I agree I don't like the option of spending real money on stars, which is why I said so in the survey

rigid ledge
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i enjoy the packs on offer alot simply because both stars and bombs require you to play the game to get anything out of them, while they do accelerate your xp gains, they don't totally skip intended game progression like lamps do

steady steeple
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I'm not gonna contest that its better for the game. I agree. I just think its bad still, just to a lesser degree than TH.

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speedup is better for game than skips absolutely

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Just that I think the ideal is neither

rigid ledge
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totally agree

slow trench
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i think they could expand on the rested exp system proper

steady steeple
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Since they've said its a valid line of feedback to give (and you got options in the survey for doing so), so thats my stance and I'm sticking to it

empty badger
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My thoughts as a 20+ year RuneScape player

  • Firstly, I'd like to say THANK YOU. Reworking MTX is exactly what RS3 needs.

  • I think that treasure hunter removal would reinvigorate the game. RS3 currently has such a stain due to MTX, and its a massive off put to a lot of people. Sure, I understand that a few people will complain if TH is removed, I do however think this is probably a small minority.

  • Why do I think TH is bad for the game? Proteans, lamps and dummies are too powerful. They totally deflate the sense of accomplishment from levelling skills etc, and it forces people to just AFK, for example in Fort Forinthry or at the GE. This is not gameplay.

  • I think that having stars in the marketplace is borderline acceptable. The prices seem fair, and I like the fact you can't buy unlimited amounts. Ultimately, I think the removal of all EXP boosting MTX would be the best case scenario. At least with bonus EXP you still need to play the game!

Overall, I think the TH removal would attract a great number of new/returning players (I have personally had IRL friends say they will return to the game if TH is removed). News of these experiments has already gained a lot of traction online. Things are looking very positive for RS3 at the moment, please keep the current trajectory. 🙂

languid narwhal
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As a 20 year player myself it kills me everytime I see others trying to say that AFK grinding doesn't count as gameplay. Sometimes it's the only thing I have time for between a career and family, and those items make it possible to feel like you're making some kind of progress in the game even if I can't be staring directly at my screen the whole time. I agree MTX needs addressed, but I don't think this is it.

empty badger
steady steeple
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Yeah I'd second that. TH is not the sum of afk content in the game

slow trench
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theres umpteen methods to level that dont require proteans or th resources
rs3 iron exists and every skill is at the very least 1.5x-2x faster than most active osrs methods

empty badger
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My opionion on the matter is, if you only have time to click your mouse once every 5 mins then you honestly shouldnt be on the game. Just my opinion tho

steady steeple
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I'm fine with some afk options here and there

slow trench
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even if u can click or tap once every 5 mins the game offers u many ways anyway

steady steeple
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I think in general those should be outcompeted by more active methods

languid narwhal
bitter wind
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I'm a big fan of offering two options for every skill: afk but lower xp/hr & intense but higher xp/hr
Middle grounds are perfectly fine as well, but those are the two I'm primarily a fan of

empty badger
verbal flume
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am I like the only person that doesn't oppose mtx on rs3

empty badger
vagrant dagger
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there are others that have expressed that they have enjoyed TH

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it is fine to have that opinion

verbal flume
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Not necesaarily enjoy mtx stuff

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But rather the revenue it brings in

vagrant dagger
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either way, it is fine to have differing opinions on the subject. it is a divisive thing in the gaming industry so you will have opinions on both sides

raven prism
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I personally don't care about buyable xp or anything. I don't have to buy anything if i don't want to so it existing doesn't hurt me

verbal flume
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The last thing that I'd want is mtx reduction/removal making a big dent on jagex's profit

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And then they have to reduce rs content investment or do weird stuff to osrs

raven prism
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Theres no avoiding the dent in their profit. But long term it's better to try and get that profit from a bigger playerbase with membership instead of a smaller playerbase + mtx

empty badger
worn shuttle
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MTX income has fallen year after year, while OSRS gets more popular + profitable

verbal flume
raven prism
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Like realistically. If mtx was the biggest part of their revenue they wouldn't be willing to change it

empty badger
worn shuttle
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bonds won't go anywhere anyway

flint swallow
raven prism
flint swallow
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If they’re redeemed for membership that’s what they count as

empty badger
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it allows ppl like me to buy membership for ingame gold, and it lets ppl who need gold buy bonds (if bonds were removed these ppl would resort to RWT anyway - id rather the money went to jagex than some chinese gold farmers)

flint swallow
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And if they’re redeemed for keys/RC they’re counted towards that bucket

raven prism
empty badger
raven prism
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Or whatever it was 😛

worn shuttle
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i know its partly a joke, but i know a lot of people who finance membership through bonds

flint swallow
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Bonds aren’t MTX in quite the same way, they’re basically an RWT gateway for people who want to buy gold, as well as people who want to sell gold (for money to use in the game)

verbal flume
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Now i do think th was a pretty dumb way of mtx implementation

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I still like to call it spins

worn shuttle
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it was a short term get-rich-quick-scheme thats unfortunately lasted 13+ years

verbal flume
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Like th was so cost inefficient even from a whale perspective, I'm surprised anyone even spends money on it

tame ether
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People used bonds for keys… that was even more inefficient

verbal flume
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Th is just hugely inefficient in general imo

raven prism
worn shuttle
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the phoenix/smouldering lamps are crazy OP tbf

verbal flume
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There are so many diff ways they could have gone about this instead
That doesn't give nearly as much of a negative vibe also while generating more profit

verbal flume
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Since it's so easy to gain

worn shuttle
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yeah true, and that's only got worse over the years

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xp methods nowadays are crazy

verbal flume
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They probably could have made multiple times more revenue and maybe even majority advocation if they doubled down on say cosmetics

worn shuttle
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they double and triple dipped with cosmetics unfortunately

raven prism
verbal flume
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that's because they pumped out ugly looking cosmetics, 100% quantity and nada quality

worn shuttle
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since thats been the norm for a while

verbal flume
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Buy spins

raven prism
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Like you don't even need to use th emost expensive training methods to max in like 6months - 1 year when only playing outside of working hours

verbal flume
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And there's still very little merit to train most skills beyond 99

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So really, xp in general is largely worthless as a revenue item on rs3

empty badger
wild shoal
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I respectfully want to share my thoughts regarding the changes you’re planning for RuneScape — specifically the potential removal of Treasure Hunter, keys, and cosmetic items. In my view, such a move could deeply affect the enjoyment and experience of many players, possibly even pushing some away from the game entirely.

Over the years, RuneScape has evolved to offer a variety of ways to play — whether through Ironman Mode, Old School RuneScape, or the current version of RS3. This diversity of options allows players to choose the experience that best suits their lifestyle and preferences.

Personally, I used to enjoy RuneScape back in the RS2 era. It was fun and engaging. However, times have changed — I now have responsibilities, including work and studies, and I don’t have the same amount of time to dedicate to long grind sessions.

The current version of RuneScape helps players like me enjoy the game without needing to invest endless hours, and I find that very valuable. I believe many others feel the same.

I truly hope you will consider that not all players are looking for a more punishing or time-consuming experience. Those who do have excellent options like Old School RuneScape or Ironman Mode.

Thank you for your attention and for continuing to develop a game that has meant so much to so many of us.

raven prism
tame ether
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1 year or more

simple thorn
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Less than 300k daily xp, will get you to 120 in a year

tame ether
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For 1-99

raven prism
tame ether
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Yeah

raven prism
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i agree it should take 29 years of non stop playing to just have 99s in every skill

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And then like hundreds of years to reach 110/120 in the skills that can reac hthat

tame ether
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RS1 was a lot more fun

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And high skill levels were actually significant because of how hard it was

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At 20-30k exp/h

dark spire
fluid hinge
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Im well aware that people say this. I'm recording my own opinion, and the reasons for it,. The purpose of this thread is not really to have an argument.

dark spire
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@vagrant dagger Would you be willing to pin a message in here that links to the feedback survey? It may help people vent their opinions that otherwise don't even know the survey exist

vagrant dagger
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did someone post the survey link?

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if so, i will pin their message

dark spire
vagrant dagger
dark spire
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ty

flint swallow
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There wasn’t actually high level content because the Gowers didn’t think anyone would ever actually reach 99 in any skill

tame ether
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And it was a lot more fun

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But levels have been cheapened to nothing

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That cannot be fixed

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At least for the skills that currently exist

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But for the future…

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Maybe

simple thorn
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People thought ritual of the mahjarrat was pushing xp rewards back in the day

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Nowadays you get more, just for logging in

tame ether
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It was!

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Yesterday’s accomplishment is today’s mediocrity

bitter wind
tame ether
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The hardest quests are ones where I accidentally eat or bury the critical item

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😂

bitter wind
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I feel like you're calling me out for burying the jogre bones in Tai Bwo Trio

weary remnant
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And alching.. you know what

bitter wind
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that monkey had it coming!

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and so did that cat!

weary remnant
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And?...

bitter wind
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and so did all your left socks

weary remnant
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Exactly.

simple thorn
flint swallow
simple thorn
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f2p only has like 50% bonus xp consumption rate i believe

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or atleast, it used to be that way

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as in, it's 150% xp rather than 200%

raven prism
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Only during dxp

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outside of dxp they cant use it

lone owl
# empty badger **My thoughts as a 20+ year RuneScape player** - Firstly, I'd like to say THANK...

I've seen several people complain about having TH in game as it gives lamps, stars, and protean items that allow exp gain.

Most seem to say that "it takes away from the game experience" (the exp gained from stars and lamps etc. without skilling).

Several also said they think people would return to RS if they got rid of this (TH and extra experience).

All I can say is they clearly don't play much. They can't because nobody is forcing them to redeem keys, use TH, or somehow "detract" from their "organic" experience.

Clearly they don't have all 120's + either, almost nobody has made that without BXP, Lamps, and other higher Exp items.

Go ahead, try getting all 120s, or 5.8 bill, without daily keys, daily tasks, stars, lamps, knowledge bombs, etc. Let me know how it goes in 20 years when you're done (5.65 bill exp, 16+ years).

Also, if you don't like TH, feel its bad, DON'T OPEN IT!

Stop advocating hurting the rest of us. Instead just don't use it if you don't want to.

Do I think Jagex is screwing up with MTX? Yes! How they are screwing ups is how most do in this area, charging too high a price and giving too much "volume" instead of quality.

Reopen and redevelop Solomans Store, have almost all new outfits cost 1 Bond (equivelent in Runecoins). A few of the Better ones can cost 2 bonds). Have regular 30% to 50% off sales.

Sell stars, lamps, and knowledge bombs, in very limited quantities and for pretty low prices. Current 16.99 for 10 bombs is 6.99 too high and package should be limited to one a month, not one a day.

Increase the quality of the game, cosmetics, and play. Sell extras (not things that are needed or best for play) that allow people to tailor their look and play. But charge a fair price, limit them and put the "micro" back in microtransactions.

raven prism
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It doesn't take 16+ years to get 5.8b without bxp lol

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Like any skill is atleast 500k xp/h at base rates at 99+

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most are probably closer to a million

lone owl
raven prism
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One of my friends is. And i'm going to be there soon

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I don't need to already have 5.8 to know the xp rates i've been getting

lone owl
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Good luck then. Clearly you're spending a lot of time on it.

raven prism
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Yeah but nowhere close to 16+ years

lone owl
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You are the exception, most don't paly that way.

raven prism
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Ofcourse if you didn't seriously put it as goal and play super casually with bad training methods it will take forever

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But that's on you

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You shouldn't look at those people to see how long it takes to get 5.8

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That's like looking at someone whos legs got amputated to see how long it takes to run a marathon

simple thorn
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fyi, people with leg prosthetics have faster times than those with natural meat legs

steady steeple
# lone owl I've seen several people complain about having TH in game as it gives lamps, sta...

It impacts the economy at large.

Every protean bar used is a bar not sunk, an ore not sunk. Less demand for stone spirits. This holds true for item after item from MTX, depressing the demand for large swathes of items and driving their prices down. Making anything that supplies those items less rewarding too.

Literally everyone that engage with the economy is affected by gameplay MTX. Pretending as if its a personal choice with no ramifications on others is just strictly wrong.

raven prism
amber kernel
simple thorn
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well yea, i'm just saying bxp being buyable is the same as saying it's fair to have those people contest in the same race

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if ya got the money for a better set of legs, ya got an advantage

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doesn't matter if it's just gonna result in less time invested

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it shouldn't be the case

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similarly, using bonds to purchase gold, basically alllows one to skip gearing for early bird bonus on new content, if better gear improves boss kc rate

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it's got a few steps between it and actually requires the skill to then farm said boss

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but there is a notable advantage to just having direct access to best in slot gear directly, or not

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which shouldn't be impacted by irl wealth, if we're talking about gameplay integrity

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big enough ingame wealth, does the same, mind you

zealous halo
prisma seal
#

Can we get rid of this?!

I opened it to let it go away, but the next time i log in it's back
It's very annoying

image.png
amber kernel
#

At least in this case, it’s not creating gold and allows the purchase of membership via gameplay. Although, I’ve always had very mixed feelings about bonds

simple thorn
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bonds are a bandaid solution to a problem that never quite got solved properly

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the benefits to surrounding parties just make it hard to argue against in general

amber kernel
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Pretty much, yeah

tough void
#

Imo:

  • Current bundles are 10x healthier than th and any promo it has or had. Financially for the players and for the economy.

  • Never add proteans or dummies as a bundle idea. Either add them as an item you can make through the economy, let them dwindle naturally or remove them with a good conversion/ trade option with a minimum time period to allow people to choose how to use them up (for me, many months heads up to the decision of removal via ideas with a 3 months period of that idea implementation as the minimum).

  • increase / adjust the price of knowledge bombs. 10 hours of 50% increased exp is easily triple the value of the large bxp stars for the price they have. - should be considered a once in a blue moon purchase at best or for those who genuinely can afford it. Make it less attractive for more impulsive players to purchase.

  • consider a long term phase out via content updates to make exp grind low-mid term feel better. Potentially faster, and or content that better fills inbetween levels and xp scaling. (This resolving the idea for why these bundles exist via jagex' reasoning).

tame ether
inner obsidian
#

Since the protean and TH has been introduced, there is no need to move anymore in order to gain XP. It really took the joy away for me.

lone owl
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So don't use them? Play Ironman?

steady steeple
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A lot of players just decided to not play at all. Which is why we're having monetisation discussion.

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The "don't use it if you don't like it" point doesn't really work because if it did, we'd not be having this discussion in the first place

amber kernel
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I also was kinda shocked to see the knowledge bombs, and particularly the cost value, behind them

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The stars pretty much met what I was expecting, though

steady steeple
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Bombs are way too strong

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Its insane how many bombs you can buy a day

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To the point that the daily cap is pretty much lip service

amber kernel
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The more I see people say they don’t want bxp and such to go away due to time and/or gameplay restraints, the more it solidifies my opinion that the game needs a big early-mid reboot

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Because I think the general opinion of it has validity, but the execution I do not believe is valid

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Ultimately, even with higher xp, it still takes a decent amount of time to level up. And I think there still needs to be that sort of journey, but we’re beyond the days of old

steady steeple
#

we're by default beyond the days of old anyways

amber kernel
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This is true

steady steeple
#

xp rate is much higher at every point of the journey than in the past

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the idea that we're returning to some long lost insane grindyness is a myth I see perpetuated

We're never heading back to 30k slayer or runecrafting xp/hr at the high end.

I mean we've got maxed GIM in this game and that mode released half a year ago without MTX or events.

sleek plover
#

WHY IS RUNESCAPE SELLING BOMBS

tame ether
meager forum
atomic ridge
#

We still get daily keys now?
Did they change that or did u get them be4 too?

bitter wind
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has been like this since the start of the experiment yeah, that way you don't miss out on any owed keys while it's taking place

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(you'll be able to use them after the experiment)

atomic ridge
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@bitter wind fair enough, i didnt see the number of keys be4, now it shows them.
Was confused 🙂

lone owl
# steady steeple A lot of players just decided to not play at all. Which is why we're having mone...

The old school model of a few players paying $5 a month for membership isn't supportable either, game would fail.

Modern games and computers do more, more is expected.

Someone above said 500k an hour exp for training? Even if that's true how many will spend the 728, 8 hour days to get all 120s? Summoning excluded since its 10mill exp+ an hour once you have the supplies.

The reality is the price of everything on earth has gone up, yet many RS players keep expecting it to be how they first saw the game years ago when starting free was still a lot of fun and you could pay a few bucks a month to do more.

The electricity to run the servers costs more than that these days, things are just not how they were.

Subscriptions, and some form of MTX, is required just to keep the lights on and developers working.

steady steeple
#

most skills is well beyond the million mark on top end method without MTX

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The idea that the "old school model" is not viable is also blatantly wrong

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OSRS has the old school model and it outearns RS3

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and have for the better part of a decade

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RS3's monetisation model is the model thats currently failing, the old school model OSRS has is thriving

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This was spelled out in Jagex' last financial

raven prism
#

500k xp is like the cheap / broke people way of training for any skill

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or the "slow but profitable" way

steady steeple
#

Staying the course is the opposite of a viable option for Jagex

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Which is why the CEO even stated on video a few weeks ago that monetisation is hurting the game and staying the course is risky

tough void
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Seren stones are still 300k ish

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Afk

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Its likely tons better active

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On other stones

raven prism
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they mean the mining ones in trahaern probably

tough void
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Prayer?

raven prism
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NOt the prayer cleansing crystals

flint swallow
tough void
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Prayer is like 3m+ an hour if rich boi status

flint swallow
#

Is there a warning?

steady steeple
#

I remember alaea crablets had some pretty damn good rates, and that was before 110 mining update that buffed mining further

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better than seren stones at least

lone owl
# steady steeple 500k xp/hr is the *low end*

Its a mistake to directly compare OSRS with RS.

People like OSRS sure, Why? Its simpler, retro, and rewards (skills, drops, etc.) come sooner than RS.

Point I've been making RS is so big, so complex, that you have two things happening.

  1. Most people who used to play get/got discouraged because it takes A LOT of effort and time to build a character.

  2. For most people, ones who play no more than say 2 to 4 hours a day, it is not realistic to get to 120s without some forrm of additional exp. That exp can be from free keys, daily tasks, afk events, or whatever. Point being higher exp rates are needed to keep most feeling they have made progress.

Under that environment you pretty much have to sell some form of exp or even more people will just drop off from playing.

You don't see a first person shooter game taking years to complete...............

steady steeple
#

120 is a long term goal, not something you need soon

raven prism
#

You're so out of touch with the game it's kinda just funny at this point to read

steady steeple
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I don't see inherent value in rushing people along to the endgame

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The difference between RS3 and a first person shooter, is that no shooter out there has had nearly the longevity of runescape

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at least with such a sizeable audience

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We've already done higher xp rates in RS3. Thats already at its core

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The premise we have to sell more on top is one I fundamentally disagree with

meager forum
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Not feeling the changes... It Makes NO SENSE.. It cannot be hurting finances... RS3 is played by many and most have subscriptions, just like OSRS, But, in OSRS there is no other money coming in.. BUT in RS3 with the Micro TX noone can say people aint using them, so with folks buying things from Solomons store, that means there is extra money coming in... So saying they aint making money from it is simply NOT TRUE.. If they made RS3 like OSRS then they would make less money because no one would be using Micro TX... The math aint mathin.. Make it make sense! If folks don't like the Micro TX they do not have to use em..Micro TX are NOT forced. You have FREE WILL... Don't want to use proteans? Dont.. Dont want Lamps? Dont use em... Dont want to use keys? Don't... Dont want to buy perks and overrides from Solomon's store? Don't. It is SIMPLE. But dont kill it for the folks who want to. If we want to Grind the hell out the game and not look good doing it, we could ironman, or go hardcore Ironman, that is ALSO a CHOICE! That is why I love RS3.. I have many CHOICES. Threaten to leave? Good.. Go to OSRS. But, seems its just Drama and noone is really leaving. IF you have no self control and somehow feel forced into Micro TX, that is more a personal problem then a Community one.

steady steeple
raven prism
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It's cold hard facts that micro transactions existing brings in less money then they'd like

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It's not that micro transactions / th don't bring in money at all. But it hurts their potential membership revenue so brings in less longterm money

steady steeple
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I know there tends to be the belief that any game with MTX mostly earns money on their MTX

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But Jagex' financial is public

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We know they earn way, way more on subs

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Doubling down on MTX when it cannibalises sub is not a financially sound decision, in particularily when MTX is shrinking as an income source

raven prism
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They are willing to accept a "short term" loss for a long term gain in profits

meager forum
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Folks are just going to OSRS so they will buy the subscription there... where is the loss? no loss just shift.

raven prism
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People don't just move to osrs

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People just straight up quit

steady steeple
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Some move to OSRS, some leave entirely

raven prism
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Some people just don't want to go on the osrs grind

steady steeple
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The issue is if you let the issue keep festing of lower and lower playerbase

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You may eventually start spiralling

meager forum
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how so.. I been seeing lots of WOW players have been going to OSRS too

steady steeple
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Jagex want the game to have longevity. Players want the game to have longevity.

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The current path seem non viable long term

meager forum
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but why quit? just don't do Micro TX

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Seems rediculous

steady steeple
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Because people don't like playing with a constant conditional above their head

raven prism
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To us it seems ridiculous to be so protective of mtx

steady steeple
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They'll go find another game instead

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Why play a game that always come with a "but" or "just ignore it" when you could play a game without those things

meager forum
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it is only there if they choose not to ignore it. It isnt forced

steady steeple
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The point I'm making tauni, is that even if you want people to just ignore it

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You won't convince people to do that

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They'll just leave instead

meager forum
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I think they don't want to ignore the candy.. They want Daddy JAGEX to hide it from them

raven prism
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It's hard to ignore a system when so many things try to make you interact with it

steady steeple
#

We've gone past the point where its obvious to everyone, both Jagex and players, that the strategy of hoping people just ignore it doesn't work out

raven prism
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Daily challenges giving keys. quests giving keys

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Free daily keys

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Soemtimes just getting the giant pop up with a purchase offer for more keys

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Th keys just appearing in my inventory or dropping to the floor

meager forum
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Well we could argue it for days, but we are all adults and it is good for Jagex when folks but the extras... I dont think people are just quitting just like that.. RS in general is one of the Best MMOs out there with constant new and interesting content regularly with no lulls ... Why would a player just Leave.

raven prism
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You might think it's not bad

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But even jagex themselves disagree with that

steady steeple
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Have you seen the video by Jagex, Tauni?

meager forum
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Well.. hopefully wont just ruin the game altogether.. Because that would be worse if EVERYONE got fed up and left... That would truly stink

steady steeple
raven prism
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Give the feedback you have in any of the places they have for it and we'll see what the final results end up being

steady steeple
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Even in here every monetisation announcement has been vastly more positive than negative

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That and they did a large scale survey

meager forum
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Yes.. but whet they are saying is people will leave because they want NO CHOICE to gameplay.. everyone should have free CHOICE and now that takes away and RS3 will be a more grindy version of OSRS and folks will get discouraged and be gone anyway

steady steeple
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Did you know that 86% of people who buy MTX is unhappy with TH

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We're not even talking all players. Even buyers are unhappy.

raven prism
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They'd have to do alot to make rs3 more grindy then osrs lol

meager forum
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If folks wante RS3 to be OSRS they they should just go to OSRS to begin with... Crazy

steady steeple
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That number is from Jagex' monetisation post

raven prism
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Nobody is sayign we want rs3 to be osrs

meager forum
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oh?

steady steeple
#

Yeah nobody is requesting RS3 be OSRS

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there are many differences between the two beyond MTX

raven prism
#

just taking away the unhealthy mtx doesn't make it anywhere close to the same for xp grinds

steady steeple
#

and without MTX, they're not the same rate of progression anyways

raven prism
#

we still have xp rates like 5x what they have

steady steeple
#

But specifically pro-TH? Thats a pretty damn small portion of the community

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Do watch the video though if you want a pretty frank take by Jagex on the topic

meager forum
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hm.. but it will be .. kind of.. and well.. I D K.. I guess we shall see how it goes.. We are all at the mercy of OSRS lover who want a Fancy OSRS.. I love the game and wont leave but that is how I feel now... See how thatgoes after the changes.. I am sure I am not alone in my feelings on this.

steady steeple
#

on why we're even considering monetisation changes

meager forum
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We shall see how that goes... Thank for engaging me on this convo.

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I ppreciate your view

steady steeple
meager forum
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Indeed...

steady steeple
#

If you're worried about rate of progress, I'd recommend going checking out a few GIM groups on hiscores to see how far those people have progressed in half a year, with zero MTX and events!

meager forum
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Nooo.. not about that at all.. but its not just lamps I like and not all my Xp comes from just lamps... There is so much content in game to interact with,, Quests, Bosses, Flash Events.. Etc Etc Etc... People seem to think the whole game is Micto TX...

raven prism
#

ALot more people would actually have to engage with all that fun stuff if th was gone

meager forum
#

Most times grind is good.. But a boost doesnt hurt.. especially when it's million upon milloins to next levels.. a little help here and there is not terrible

#

If people dont like it they can be ironmen

raven prism
#

Sadly it's just not that simple

cursive crane
#

Survey about TH filled up and sent from my side. I know I won't have much chance to play these days, certainly not my main, but I already know where I stand with my opinion on the matter.

tame ether
#

The grind is a competition with everyone else. If there is pay to win, it has to be very expensive.

meager forum
#

Well, again.. I can't wait to see where this goes. I playe OSRS YEARS ago took a break and came back and came to RS3.. Jagex wouldnt let me recover my old account no matter what info I gave so I started over... Im not a YOUNG player.. I probably wont be in here to see even a Veteran Cape so.. with that said... I like that I can make progress and enjoy game at same time.

#

Well i dont BUY keys and keys ive free gifts that inclide xp boosts and lamps which is nice.. I dont have to use those i select what I want

tame ether
#

It annoys me every time I see a buy keys popup

meager forum
#

THAT is the part they can change

#

should NOT be popups.. Solomon's store should not be near Grand exchange

tame ether
#

Should know me better with all the data they have lol

meager forum
#

It should be in ICON interface ONLY.. I dont like In your face stuff either.. But having a low key option available to those who want it would be good

tame ether
#

Now, bank space sales, I would like to know about those!

steady steeple
#

Declutter solomons store

#

Don't like it at the GE

meager forum
#

Indeed

#

and yes.. BuyingBank spaces.. itt again is choice but having availability makes us horders.. That is true

tame ether
#

A f2p ge teleport would be nice

meager forum
#

That would be great too.. The content is very limited for F2P

#

not everyone can afford a subscription

raven prism
#

If they can't afford to play that's to bad

meager forum
#

But even then.. There is still a lot Free players can doo.. but being able to go more places would be good... just not having availabitlity for some skills and certain quests... But more places to roam would be good

raven prism
#

Having places to roam but not being able to interact with isn't good either

#

And just giving them access to alot more stuff makes it less needed to ever buy membership

meager forum
#

Yeah.. That Catch 22

#

but i understand it

#

I buy yearly.. But if I had Billions in coins in game and could afford a Bond here and there I would donate one

#

Thanksd again for the Convo.. I off to play some.. 🙂

tough void
#

lil reminder, less debate on people opinions and why it may be wrong. more suggestions, opinions on the subject and what you think did or didnt work with this update

#

(we dont want to drown jmods out of important suggestions)

wise wedge
#

I find the minimodding more irritating than that

tough void
#

we literally got yelled at yesterday

wise wedge
#

that was at you for flippoing out for no reason

tough void
#

it actually wasnt, it was at everyone

wise wedge
#

it feels like you're trying to stop discussion out of spite for that moment
like some kind of passive-aggressive thing rather than steering the discussion in good faith or repentance

tough void
#

anyways

tame ether
#

I think new skills should have slow (20-30k) experience rates with a generous grace periods for people who like their capes

#

And not have 2-4m/h experience rates that burn away the skill’s runway

wise wedge
tame ether
#

Can’t sell dxp/bxp if people are at 200m lol

#

Keeping it low at the start gives a lot of room and reward space for new content and quests around it too

#

And keeps the race to first 99/120/200m interesting for longer

lucid dune
#

So... all free keys/lamps/stars get removed, but buyable packages stay; anyone else think this is tonedeaf?

raven prism
#

Making it more unhealthy by making it take longer doesn't mean more interesting

raven prism
#

Join the fun and let them know it's not good to just put these bundles ingame

lucid dune
raven prism
#

But yes. Alot of people agree that the bundles are definetly not an improvement

lucid dune
#

As a 20y+ casual player, the removal of my free lamps is the hill I will die on when it comes to canceling membership.

tough void
lucid dune
#

The whole idea of removing MTX was removing buyable keys/lamps, not the free ones.

tough void
#

If it was without reason, im on the same board as you.

lucid dune
#

If they're free, they're by definition not mtx

#

I don't have the same time as before by a huge margin, which is exactly why free keys/lamps should never go

tame ether
#

I always found the obsession with 99’s and maxing to be incredibly unhealthy

lucid dune
#

I leveled most of my skills up with them, like 90% of my xp is from lamps

tame ether
#

But maybe those are the only players left these days

lucid dune
#

I don't have the time nor the inclination to go grind stuff in the little time I can find to be ingame

tame ether
#

With a lot of the players here for fun gone

#

And only the ones going for arbitrary achievements still around, not having fun but ticking off the achievements

#

And for what? Approval from mysterious entities that are watching?

#

But not so perfectly to see all the shortcuts

#

Only the end result

#

Turns play into work

#

Work that doesn’t pay

lucid dune
#

That's exactly my point; I already have a job, I don't need another one grinding a game just to be able to play it.

tame ether
#

But has someone convinced you that you need to progress or have all 99+ to be able to play it?

#

On my retired pking account

#

I also found that the early/mid game was fun

#

Until I unlocked invention and reencountered perk gambling

#

It disgusted me

lucid dune
#

I hate invention because it's too RNG

tame ether
#

Yeah haha

lucid dune
#

as for the 99s, that's just an old goal that is finally getting in reach

#

Only took me 20 years to get my first

tame ether
#

It took me 14 rolls to get as4e2

cursive crane
#

I've been playing since 2006 and I can say for myself absolutely NOTHING was fun for me about the grind. I played for quests and lore and everything else was a chore. I only started playing in more wholesome way when I was able to skill faster. But early years were more often mental torture for me any time I had to be locked in grind.

lucid dune
#

I will say the make-X was huge

tame ether
#

The obsession with efficiency also kills the fun

lucid dune
#

Before that grinding was literally a pain

tame ether
#

But on the other hand it’s nice to have people to chat with

lucid dune
#

And I'm using "literally" correctly there

tame ether
#

So afk skills are good in that regard

#

Can train them while talking to your friends, acquaintances, or even argue with people lol

#

Usually not worth arguing since no one is convinced and everyone is upset after

#

😂

lucid dune
#

Arguing on the internet, yeah, that never ends well 🙂

dark spire
#

As a possible Suggestion of a solution of taking out Keys entirely, maybe after each quest instead of 2 keys you get 2 xp stars which vary in sizes depending how long that quest length was. It would help the people that feel like they are missing out on the free XP so many other people had access to

simple thorn
#

outside of people that had completed the quests prior to the keys being added, i don't think people who've yet to do quests would care or even notice them being gone

dark spire
#

I've seen a few arguments floating around in game about it, so that was a solution that popped up in my head while eating dinner lmao

simple thorn
#

twas a pretty big discussion on here a few hours back

dark spire
#

about keys? or in general

simple thorn
#

that keys on quests would need compensation

dark spire
#

oh I will go try look for it then

simple thorn
#

rather disappointing argument to even have tbh

#

but to each their own

dark spire
#

I personally don't feel I need compensation for them taking out a unhealthy aspect of the game, but I am jaded in the fact I just want a healthy game no matter the cost, idc if I am taking a hit for it

simple thorn
#

tbh, i'm just sad that some people actually value them to such an extend

#

humanity never ceases to fail me

dark spire
#

I think I seen a youtube video of a guy playing rs3 after like 10 years or something, and he started a new account and got to lvl 52 cooking from lamps/proteans in an hour

#

what a crazy reality

simple thorn
#

a friend's a bit of a veteran when it comes to showcasing the depravities of mtx

dark spire
#

oh yeah I think that was his channel name, so you know the video I am talking about

simple thorn
#

ya

tough void
steady steeple
#

nah, dovydas tells you if he buys keys. He did that infamous "13k to max" video a decade ago

#

When he says its free keys and shows where he got the free keys from, I believe him

dark spire
#

After reading the convos from earlier, I really think this game just isn't for certain people anymore, if your only way you could enjoy this game was through Keys and free xp because rs is a second job without it, It's okay to move on, some games just turn into that way, but all keys which are apart of MTX is unhealthy for rs3, just because you lived in the muddy ditch for 12 years doesn't mean you shouldn't move into a tent

#

that's just my personal take on what i've read so far

tough void
#

idk if it feels right to tell people to not play rs.

#

we are a passionate bunch thats for sure though

simple thorn
#

it's a second job you choose for, that isn't constraint by time

#

if you don't like spending long hours going for a goal

#

you're not the target audience

#

and cathering to people who fundamentally are against the core concept of the game

#

is a bad plan

#

because they aren't invested into the game, they're invested in doing everything they can, not to

tough void
#

yeah still doesnt give anyone the right to be like "you prob shouldnt play this"

#

in fact

tame ether
#

Foxhole, now that was a second job lolololol

tough void
#

its not ok at all, neither is it on subject

tame ether
#

Just running logistics the entire

#

Time

#

And watching your own team skill issue it all away

#

I know some quest bosses are too hard for some players

tough void
#

true, rs can be tough.

tame ether
#

Some sort of expensive quest skip token could be good. Give none of the rewards but unlock the content gated behind it so people can play

strong tapir
tame ether
#

The original point was to have fun

#

By yourself or with friends

#

But efficiencyscape, skill capes, logs

#

That has blinding many to the original point

#

And that is where the suffering is from

strong tapir
#

yeah idk ive played the game since 2003, the whole point was always grinding without needing mtx, then they add mtx and it ruined the way people look at the game

tame ether
#

2001

#

Not that it should matter

tough void
#

a good many are aged players yeah

strong tapir
#

theres a reason osrs player count is way larger than rs3. rs3 feels like its dying and now they have brought out last second life support to keep it alive.

tough void
#

its actually in the healthy mmo population for rs3. 250k a month is a good amount. not top tier but def still healthy. we DO however, have a trend of losing players which is whats being addressed.

tropic gazelle
#

while I agree with 'grinding' is gone; I want the cosmetic! fashionscape! I want that witch broom walk!

#

TH with cosmetic only would be what I want

#

more pixel stuff; more walks, etc

#

and maybe; if we doing xp; proteans don't hurt

strong tapir
#

let people buy cosmetics, thats fine with me. but "i dont have time for the game, so let me buy end game", no thats not okay. you dont have time to skill, but have time for end game? makes 0 sense. if you dont have time, you dont have time. what did you magically find time to play once you hit end game?

tough void
#

at their own pace and for fun

#

obj rs3 should be for fun anyway

#

(im in end game and im picking and choosing my "end game" sessions)

tropic gazelle
#

i really wish PoH was revisted and made useful and fun again

#

my favorite skill is construction, but nothing to use it or do with

dark spire
strong tapir
tame ether
#

I suck at endgame anyways

#

😃

dark spire
tropic gazelle
#

i don't like how some cosmetics are behind PvM

#

and I am skiller (yes I am maxed) but still

#

I just don't enjoy combat; but skilling all day is fun

#

when necro had the option for ritual vs pvm to 120... I really liked the ritual part (except for glitchy clicks)

strong tapir
#

i think they did a really good job with necro and making people use it instead of being able to buy it.

#

sure you can buy 120, but actually using it in game, your locked behind souls 😄

tame ether
#

The 4m exp/hour in rituals was insane

#

And burned the runway for the skill

tropic gazelle
#

dxp ❤️

tame ether
#

Yeah I usually feel like quitting around dxp

dark spire
#

you would think 4 DXP's per year would be able to keep the people complaining about xp more than stastifyed

#

that's a lot of XP

tame ether
#

I think it’s giving away too much for nothing

#

And serves to cheapen anything that was done before

#

The other thing about eoc is that the enemies were weakened a lot compared to where they were beforehand

tropic gazelle
#

I complain the timing/anouncement of dxp

#

2/4 times I am traveling

#

limited access to internet

dark spire
#

That's fair but that's not really something jagex can fix

tropic gazelle
#

sure; designated dxp

#

OR bank it for 2 weeks

#

rather than 1 week

dark spire
#

1 week is more than generious considering you have a max of 3 days

#

and they give ample of warning beforehand DXP is coming

tropic gazelle
#

we got lives man;

#

and they give 30 day or less notice. my travel plans are 60 days in advance

dark spire
#

Unlucky is all I can say

tropic gazelle
#

that's why if they allow extension when you first start

#

by 1 week

#

or let you spend it the hours in span of 2 weeks would be peak/optimum

dark spire
#

I personally don't see how allowing it to go on for an extra week will solve your travel plans every single time, but I will take your word for it

tropic gazelle
#

business travels are 1 week long

dark spire
#

I assume you have cell phone service on your business travels, so you could always use Mobile Rs3

wise wedge
tough void
#

No, you cant convince me that the message here "you shouldnt play this game" is pretty fair.

#

The recommend to a friend would be fair and thats something else entirely

dark spire
#

I wasn't flat out saying "stop playing the game"

tough void
#

Its still saying it even if you think you are being fair. People can play how they like even in that scenario.

#

Theyll take a break like all do.

strong tapir
#

go tell osrs players that "i want mtx to make osrs more playable for me" and see how that goes lol

tough void
#

This isnt osrs.

#

I can probably articulate how this isnt feedback either

strong tapir
#

good luck

dark spire
#

Rs3 was not made on the fact you can buy your way to endgame though, RS3 was made on EOC, not MTX

strong tapir
#

youre trying to tell him hes wrong when he isnt

tough void
#

Im not

#

But words in my mouth ryan.

strong tapir
#

using mtx to avoid playing the game isnt how the game was meant to be played

strong tapir
dark spire
#

Ideally, the difference between rs3 and osrs should only be Graphics/Combat/Story, and that's it

strong tapir
#

if you dont have time to play the game and reach your goals, welcome to the club, its a grind..... it wasnt meant to be a speed run, its meant to be years longs.

slow trench
strong tapir
slow trench
#

in osrs people are happy being 70s or 80s in stats because maxing is an endgame goal

#

in rs3 its a midgame goal which fair enough u do get lots of exp even w/o mtx

#

theres no 'catching up' like other mmos

strong tapir
#

the amount of free xp already built into rs3 is insane, look at the xmas event xp.... theres literally no reason you cant fly through levels between xmas and dxp.

tame ether
#

My level 3 noob got a gold present halfway through

#

With the black scythe that was more than a bond

#

Got 99 agil from the silverhawk downs, from level 1

twin dagger
#

morning hows it hanging i think its a bad idea the game will crash it wont bother me not having a th but it would bother me to see the game crash. quite frankly im unsure what your trying to achieve. i have a couple things in mind so here we go. th has done its job for me on my main its got all those skills i hate doing with a passion to 200M xp for an example dung I cant stand that rubbish it was a failed mini-game not a skill and that debate will live until the game dies. th got 1 of many skills like that to 200M and 'the dung hole' from 'the beach' got the gordie so it cleared that skill i dont feel the need to play that lame gameplay no more. all i have left is the fun parts of the game in the grind of 120-200M grind to the end game all and skilling pets. however it is sitting there as a bonus for my noob characters as and when need if i wanted to use it. plus i think it will destroy the whole point of why you created the ironman system. so if your goal is to try and get people to play in more rather than paying for the game to be complete then put a cap on th rather than getting rid of it. however if your goal is to relive the good old days back when it was all on browser before it was known as osrs which if memory serves was running off that lame java content you used to run off. back when there was no such thing as lamps bonus xp or cosmetics. man those were days the things me and my school bois used to get upto in rs and couldnt spend 5 mins until the game crashed. then the only thing that will annoy me is to see my cosmetics disappear because ive spent so many years creating the perfect demon looking character that goes perfect with its name. but as a hole in short i think your asking everyone an insane question. i dont need it, ive seen this debate before, but i dont want this game to crash thats my biggest concern. finally i will state i have tried wording that best way i could politely but bluntly but in things like this im not the best at wording things

wise wedge
twin dagger
# wise wedge I think the theory is that it's more likely to crash if they don't remove it, so...

well yeah i reckon it's too overpowered i won't deny that 1 but i think that's what people like about it lol however you then have the point of looking at it as its so overpowered and when it completes the game for you there's no need to play the game no more so its killing it in that sense of term that's very true unless your someone like myself who is hooked on the game and even if it completes the game i decide to create another and play it again. i do believe it will destroy ironman though too.

twin dagger
#

there is the thought of keeping it, however due to how overpowered the whole thing is, try reducing the value of it all

cloud sentinel
#

🚩 🚩 🚩 🚩
🚩 🚩 🚩 🚩
🚩 🚩 🚩 🚩
🚩 🚩 🚩 🚩
Horrible. Treasure Hunter IS NOT an issue. Having events that require too many keys and not enough time(even if you purchase 15 a days from the oddments store) is the issue. -- Just sell some oddments separately if you want extra cash(keeping promotional periods doable). Otherwise, I don't see how IT would be an issue.

I believe those on OSRS who complain about RS3 are some of the majority who stick with OSRS because they're unaware they can change the graphics to RS3 to OSRS by legacy graphics and grame rendering scaling. Others, from what I've seen, hate on RS3 for not being able to access it on mobile. The graphics are set way too high and most phones will not even have it in the app store. RS3 just needs a lite mode set to legacy graphics completely and then the player base for RS3 will pick up. It has nothing to do with pay-to-play, except with, maybe, promotions of treasure hunter that are impossible to get/collect because the cost is so high you have to PAY RL cash: It has to do with many not being able to access the app.

My internet service provider on mobile told us RS3 was blocked due to potentially being unsafe. This could be some of RS3's problem too. They need to check with ISP's to see if they're being flagged.

The next thing to raise awareness would be to find a team devoted to some clean aesthetic memes. Make one with any show, movie or game and stick it in the groups they belong to(like on Facebook). The beach title compared with the Seinfeld character Kramer screaming the beach, as an example, would be one good one.

wise wedge
amber kernel
#

Also side note, no flaming, please don’t type run on sentences like that 😭

onyx pendant
#

I haven’t really read through all the comments (just as a preface): Did the math on everything when TH isn’t available this is taking into account the offers for stars/ knowledge items.

Came out to the following conclusions: 1) Jagex will profit if the bundles are bought daily for the 1 a limit on each individual bundle. 2) Comes to around $400 USD for one week for buying all the offers.

The math break down is total for all 19.97+34.97=54.94 *7 = 384.58

Knowledge bombs daily and stars daily are 41 stars and 18 knowledge

*7 = 287 and 126 total is 413

So if you retroactively do a cost/ benefit analysis the total per item is 1.07 per item. Pretty cheap if you really think about it. This is all in USD this calc was done by. That still won’t make me buy it- but interesting to know nonetheless

solar token
#

The bundles shouldn’t be considered. We shouldn’t have an option to buy xp

#

Even if it’s bonus xp

simple thorn
solar token
tame ether
#

Experience without any bxp/dxp is already way too fast

#

And it has been for far too long

amber kernel
#

That’s part of being human

#

The perspective being “are you sure it’s the bonus xp and lamps you need, or better game balance and design?”

cursive crane
# amber kernel I’ve said this before, but the more I see people say that they are against TH re...

I'm actually for removal of TH for sake of removing gambling element and I do think it's good for game health to be removed. ANd I haven't spent a single cent in my life for any lamp or bxp star. That said, bxp stars have been a life savior for me many times. I can say that when I started playing in 2006, absolutely NOTHING was fun regarding grinding for me. I really mean nothing. I played for quests and lore and everything else was a chore and no less than mental strain. It wasn't a problem at early stages because leveling up was faster. But when I became higher leveled, I just couldn't spend hours doing exact same thing just to level up something for the quest because it bored me to death... pretty much any skill I had to grind. When I look back, it was horrible and god forbid I'd ever have to return back to those days.

And then in 2014, full seven and a half years later, pretty much at same time where bxp stars became a thing, I was finally able to re-kindle my enjoyment in RS and play it in more wholesome way exactly because I could now skill much faster. For the very first time, I wasn't playing solely for quests anymore. Yes, big part is that skilling is faster now and has more methods than those torturous years before and combat is way more entertaining for me since EOC compared to montonous hits before... but there's also this psychological factor when I'm able to speed up skills with bxp. Not with lamps, with bxp stars. Up to this day, I rely on bxp for every skill I plan to intensely train because otherwise, I'd have long given up. There's not one level 99 skill in my case that I wouldn't stack up with bxp in final stages because it mentally becomes so much better to see me leveling up more quickly and I have way more determination to do so if I know I'll be finished much more quickly. If I level up slowly, it's exponentially more chance I'll give up.

#

But as I said, I haven't spent a single cent on any lamp or stars. All I purchased from oddments store or what I got from TH. So if TH gets removed, I'd like or maybe even need access to bxp in some other non-payable way for the sake of being able to withstand the grind. Even more now as I have even less time to play. Playing a few hours is usually in my case playing several weeks. And the reason I even get to play RS in those few spaces of the week when I do have time, is the fact I know I'll have fun then. But grind = not fun in my case so the more I know I'll have to grind, the less likely is that I'll play.

#

In 2014, my desire to play truly increased exponentially. In less than a year, I gained more xp than I have gained for entire 7 years and a half before. Speeding up the skills was crucial factor in that.

maiden creek
#

My personal opinion is that removing the TH is a bad idea. Why? Because it deprives the "non-spending" community of fully enjoying the game. Taking the example of the review above mine, not all players can spend hours in-game just to grind XP. And some clearly don't want to spend weeks and weeks just to unlock other content they enjoy. Making stars and lamps only pay-per-play is a very bad idea, because it deprives "casual" players of the pleasure of playing. That's my opinion. 🙂‍↕️

#

I would also like to propose an alternative for obtaining cosmetics obtainable with THs, namely making available in the store those that are not via THs, with the option of purchasing "piece by piece" or complete set. It would be necessary to ensure a real chance for those who intend to obtain the whole set without spending money, but it could perhaps be a solution to certain problems. 🤔

#

(Disclaimer: This review was translated from French using Google Translate. Please forgive any spelling mistakes in the text.😅 )

steady steeple
#

As in, if TH was removed but there was some other catchup mechanic, you'd no longer have issue with TH removal?

maiden creek
#

Not exactly. I like the existence of the TH, it's a very fun thing (in my opinion). In addition, obtaining the "free" keys pushes people to farm a little XP each day. I don't really see any other way to offer this kind of thing to players. What I really complain about is the near impossibility of obtaining the costumes and decorative items related to the THs without, in the end, having to spend money.

#

Otherwise, overall, I have no complaints about the THs. I really love the mechanics, mainly because I don't know of any equivalent elsewhere.

#

(And that I don't have any money to spend on getting any bonuses 😅 )

#

In itself, I don't know if removing THs is good for the economy, but to keep casual players, it's really not a good idea 🫤

raven prism
#

If a "casual" player doesn't want to take the time to level skills in a game that's very much focused on levelling skills to do content then i have to agree with what others say "runescape just isn't the type of game for you"

#

xp rates are already very fast without any help from treasure hunter or other purchasable boosts

tame ether
#

Nothing wrong with being low level

solar token
#

Blows my mind that we have absurd xp/hr rates compared to osrs and people think we need MTX methods to make it faster

raven prism
#

All the "casuals" jut want to start with a maxed account and not play the game

solar token
#

Lol. Im a 20+ year casual. I’m still not even with a completionist cape or even a zuk cape. Not even base 110’s. At no point have I felt that expediting my process will be a benefit

#

Also are we just gonna accept the fact that someone can pay to cut their grind in half and have a place on the leaderboards

#

Like come on

#

Also miss me with the “leaderboards don’t matter” rhetoric

simple thorn
#

The people who advocate for it, aren't the target audience for what rs originally was

raven prism
#

Or what is is now

solar token
#

I hope they’re a big minority and don’t sway this in their favor

raven prism
#

Or what it's trying to be in the future

simple thorn
#

They're the mtx approving people jagex has been cultivating for a decade

solar token
#

I legit got called an elitist on twitter because I refuse to allow people to pay for bonus xp or skips

simple thorn
#

Well the entire gaming industry, to be fair

cursive crane
#

Can you please stop getting personal on people who may want things different?!

solar token
#

??? No one here has gotten personal

cursive crane
solar token
#

There is no healthy game that allows people the ability skip or expedite their grind. The ability to purchase xp or bonus xp or xp related items has no place in the game. It’s detrimental to game integrity and game health.

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So yes leaderboards do matter. It’s a reflection of a players merit.

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You let people have the ability to bypass the same grind because they throw money at the screen then you lose that merit and integrity

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Squeal of fortune started off as just xp and bonus xp for keys

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Removing TH but keeping that fundamental problem in the game isn’t the solution

cursive crane
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You're saying you're not getting personal and yet you are generalizing how players "should be". I wrote it in detail above how much mental torture the grind was to me and why I'm glad I'm able to enjoy my last 11 years of playing exponentially more than prior to that.

solar token
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I’m saying how the game should be

cursive crane
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But I guess I should "just leave", right?

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Despite being subscribed to membership continuously since may 2007...

raven prism
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Just curious. How long would you say going from 1-99 in a skill should take

tame ether
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1 year +

raven prism
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@ amun

tame ether
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Oops

cursive crane
solar token
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Took me years for woodcutting back in the day. 2007-2009 actively grinding it

cursive crane
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And taking long to grind is absolutely not enjoyment for me.

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I play for quests and lore

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FIrst thing first

raven prism
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So you just don't like skilling in a game that's mostly about getting the skills to do stuff okay

cursive crane
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Did you read my essay above?

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I said everything there

vagrant dagger
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Yall

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Let’s stop this

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It is preferable that people just post their opinions on the experiment and leave it at that

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No need to respond and argue with each other

solar token
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^

vagrant dagger
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Amun, I just said to quit responding to others

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So let’s stop

cursive crane
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Okay. I'll stop.

vagrant dagger
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Thank you

cursive crane
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Sorry, didn't see your message yet as I was typing.

verbal flume
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Runescape has just evolved to be no longer a mindless grindfest, but more content oriented

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Whereas leveling/xp itself was the purpose with rs1/2, they're simply a means to an end (other content)

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i'm sure a lot of people disagree with that view, but it's what's perceived as the more healthy design by majority opinion these days + performs better from a commercial standpoint as well

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so game makers have all the reason to press in that direction
even osrs has shifted towards that

tame ether
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Just having fun

verbal flume
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jagex's biggest blunder wasn't the shift itself, but rather how rushed it was

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like eoc wasn't something that should have happened overnight

tame ether
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The shift toward efficiency was at the cost of fun

verbal flume
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i mean that's your opinion which i can see

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but i feel like that's more due to a change in game userbase

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not necessarily due to the mechanics of the game

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the people that used to do that during those peak days are in their 30s now

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even if the game doesn't change, the world around it changes

tame ether
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Leaving what you see today

verbal flume
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thinking that the experience wouldn't have change if the game design had stayed the same is just a wrong expectation

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that's just not how things work

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it's like econimical inflation

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if you had a dollar bill that you've been holding onto since 1998, that dollar bill is still in your hands unchanged

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but the value of it has decreased drastically even though you didn't do anything to it, because the world around it has gone through inflation

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same thing with the game experience

tame ether
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That’s why I invest most of my money

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To get ahead of inflation plus tax plus tax on inflation

verbal flume
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then you would understand that runescape's experience and the playerbase's taste would have changed even if jagex didn't do the things they did

tame ether
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It’s not enough to just beat inflation because they tax the nominal gains

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Who makes up the playerbase changed too

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Naturally but also as a result of changes that were made

verbal flume
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your mentality changes as you grow old and your lifestyle changes

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if you have a job and your own family you can't dump in the same amount of time into leisure as you did when you were a 12yo student

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this isn't rocket science lol

tame ether
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🤷‍♂️

verbal flume
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stuff like pvp and minigames would be almost as dead as it is today even if eoc/wildy removal didn't happen

tame ether
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I can look at “os”rs and see that it’s not true

verbal flume
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you realize pvp is slowly dying in osrs as well lul

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and osrs is also becoming a content oriented game not a leveling game

tame ether
verbal flume
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you have bosses in osrs

tame ether
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Kbd’s existed since rs1

verbal flume
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kbd was a pretty simple boss

tame ether
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Embracing the tick manip stuff is kinda messed up though

verbal flume
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now you have more complex ones

tame ether
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Instead of fixing the bug it becomes the obscure technique

verbal flume
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zulrah is like a dummy boss on osrs at this point

tame ether
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🤷

verbal flume
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and even zulrah's mechanics are above and beyond anything that you would have imagined in 2007 rs in terms of complexity

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well 4ticking is a completely sep topic on its own

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and bringing up that to refute my logic would just be a strawman argument

tame ether
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I didn’t bring up 4taa at all

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But I disagree with 4taa as well

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And c4taa

verbal flume
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i don't like 4ticking either

tame ether
verbal flume
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well that's not even an osrs specific thing

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there have all sorts of weird tick manipulation stuff since the beginning of rs

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because a 0.6sec game tick is pretty much eternity

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so there naturally are a lot of loopholes you can create with it

tame ether
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It was entertaining hearing about the guy who tick ate in the fog

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For like 5-6h, perfectly

verbal flume
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but either way, that's unrelated to the original topic of our discussion

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nor the one of this server

tame ether
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In one of the contests

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He deserved to win

tame ether
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How relevant that is, I don’t know

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Wasn’t a fan of skillcapes either

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They pulled at the desire for recognition

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And caused people to skill things they wouldn’t enjoy just to have the token to show everyone else

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Like a marker of validation that is pursued instead of fun

idle river
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One-week of no Treasure Hunter (but keys accrue), will get people to purchase stars/lamps, just isn't a thought fixed in reality.

sly slate
tame ether
finite mesa
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What's the point of disabling TH if your still having ppl spend IRL $$ to purchased bundles? I like earning my keys doing my dailies as well as in game content. I think that you should also listen to those that have been loyal to you since the beginning and continue to play RS3 without a pause in membership. Lots of us have been playing 17 yrs or more.

rigid ledge
finite mesa
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Then Jagex should keep TH on for good. I thought that people were complaining about other players spending irl $ on TH so putting bundles up doesn't make sense to me.

rigid ledge
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that's a part of it, sure.
but the predatory nature of the randomized lootbox-esque purchases that are inherent to treasure hunter is really the main culprit

magic osprey
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I'm losing out on 21 key uses because of this test for a far worse feature...
Horrible.

rigid ledge
timber gale
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the TH gambling mechanic is meh so i'd be fine with that being replaced with the purchase options but there should still be a way to earn them for free such as the challenges allowing me to gain keys each day. I wouldn't expect a 1-1 ratio for the xp buffs but there should be something besides additional money

crude nest
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It's all part of the data gathering. Jagex wants to know what works, what doesn't, and what players actually prefer

rigid ledge
magic osprey
# rigid ledge Any daily keys you would have gotten from logging in during the experiment, as w...

Okay. That part at least was accounted for.
The valuation of the products in the test I get are lower than they should be for the test, so they don't promise at or more than they should.

That said, the valuation of the items given is terrible.
Knowledge bombs I personally value at $0 cause I only use them when training Invention due to DXP having the same output for that skill.
And prismatic stars at... $0.47 each... nah mate. Not saying buying keys off-sale is notably better.
I have 90 keys a month from my premier membership. That's already more valuable than this.

rigid ledge
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But i'm also happy to meet the discussion in the middle and say that in the event the bundles are what jagex end up rolling with, i want them to be reasonably priced (they are currently way overpriced)

finite mesa
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Jagex might gain new memberships but will also lose those that have played for years and don't want changed.

finite mesa
finite mesa
tough void
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(Also the part about the experiment as alternatives, multi purpose decision tbh)

dark spire
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It's very evident Jagex is trying to move away from TH, even the CEO said it's doing more harm than good, Also on the note of this test, they have said you don't need to buy the bundles to get your point across to them, that's not why they were put there.

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Now if you're a person that HAS to buy the bundles because you're missing the itch of TH, then that's a different issue

split quartz
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Did I get replied to and it was deleted? had a notification but no message with it.

wise wedge
tough void
split quartz
wise wedge
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especially considering they've already lost a massive amount due to not doing it

finite mesa
dark spire
finite mesa
wise wedge
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most people who quit just take breaks anyway

split quartz
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I still don't see how some else's gambling addiction has to be everyone's problem.

wise wedge
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most TH fans also probably have a higher tendency to addiction too

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so their RS addiction will make them return

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but people that would actually quit over TH's removal and don't buy any keys are probably such a small minority that's maybe a little vocal

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only takes up 30 seconds of each play session so it'd be weird for it to be a dealbreaker

dark spire
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It's a case of everyone has to lose a little in order for the game to recover and become healthy

tame ether
wise wedge
tawdry jetty
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One thing we all need to understand and accept is that Jagex is going to make their money regardless, not only are they going to do that, they NEED to do that, a healthy business is important for the continuity of the game. So, the talk about TH being replaced by some other MTX not being ideal is not even worth talking about, there will be and has to be a replacement for TH that is able to generate similar money. The discussion should be around what is the best way of delivering MTX that causes the least disruption of the game. Is there better ways to do it than gacha ETC.

steady steeple
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They will take a hit to income and have gotten the green light to do so, with the goal of growing the game long term

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The discussion of bundles is also on the table, they've not been negative to that feedback and its an option in the survey as well

tawdry jetty
steady steeple
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I'll go find some quotes for this

steady steeple
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Here is one

tawdry jetty
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So you believe theres a possibility that there will just be no replacement for TH? I find that to be too big of a hit for a business to take.

tawdry jetty
steady steeple
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here is another