May Game Health Feedback Response

[austere tusk]

Or they do go under still

[mellow pendant]

ironman, 99 hunter, got all my dino's i still go to bgh because i enjoy the content

[crisp steeple]

and for the record i mean compared to active methods. not saying you should get nothing for afking, but it should always be the least xp and least gp option

[austere tusk]

Yeah it should be a baseline

How much stuff and xp should enter the game

Vs an active method

It's also why I detest alch and the almighty machine.

It's fun for a player but a sickness on the game health

You get a pile of stuff and then fire and forget

Come back in 3 days for 40m

Or more

[mellow pendant]

alch machine in theory is fine, it should have a 100/200 item limit and salvage should just not be as abundant

alch machine can help stabilise price on things/increase them. but rn the things that are alched will never go back to alch value

look at water bstaffs

[austere tusk]

Yeah it's fine but as is

It's bad

[mental citrus]

Players need level 91 Fishing to catch blue blubber jellyfish and a Cooking level of 95 to cook them. its pretty high level content, maybe they should rework they levels to make it low level skill. Hunting crystal skillchompas gives 7,197,708 per hour. 100/7=14.3 hours to match what zammy made in an hour. it takes 97 Hunter to get a crystal skillchompas. alot of your high level skilling content is a joke now. combat seems like the only viable method of making money now.

[austere tusk]

Yeah staves are weird because you can tell the idea is to maybe be dealers choice

Diss or alch

I mean even in osrs you alch them

But we can disassemble for some bits

I think the abundance is bad and it's good they're checking that

[crisp steeple]

runecrafting, gate, and croesus are all skilling activities that make 50m/hr

you're comparing some of the worst skilling methods in game to the absolute best moneymaker in game

[untold parrot]

to be fair I don't know the last time I made 50M/hr at gate.

[crisp steeple]

it's an average. you're not going to make 50m every single hour you do

[austere tusk]

It's an extrapolation of rares and hitting the "good" commons

If you ever seen the wiki they list rares as, say, you get 0.05x of a rare in an hour, depending on the drop rate

You can be spoonfed or you can go dry

[mellow pendant]

yeah these things come down to numbers. that's originally how those drops felt in small numbers, token gp, the issue is the numbers have just kept piling up

can't release a boss that's worse than the last because "where's muh gp"

and then certain cases just printing astronomic numbers

[austere tusk]

It's again a weird balance

I'd say that like 95% of people alch salvage

The disassembled parts are there sure

So it's a question of salvage or just let them drop piles of gold

And then they kept printing newer tiers

[mellow pendant]

well they want the friction of either manual alching or waiting for invention machines to churn through it but it seems the availability of the alchs is the issue because like you say. nobody DA's necro/ori.

we went through this when we could have 5 alchers or was it 3? i forget now tbh

[austere tusk]

I think you can do 3

[mellow pendant]

the salvage that actually gets used correctly is relics.

[austere tusk]

Maybe more with the new power boost

Yeah

I mean you dangle uncommon and rare comps you gotta break your back to get from like bosses

Like ilujanka

[mellow pendant]

exactly, as an iron i'm not alching my 1m relics

[austere tusk]

Not that that's hard

[mellow pendant]

but all i do is alch 750k necro slices

[mellow pendant]

it's the fomo factor

[austere tusk]

I think it does somehow feel better to run an ED

Lots of chances at rare relics

And plenty of uncommons

[mellow pendant]

you might even have people selling relics (idk if they are even tradeable)

[austere tusk]

Of course if you get a weapon at Vindi or something it's in your best interest to then make it level 9 or whatever to get max comps

But I'm digressing. The issue is salvage is really plentiful and the higher tier bits are just so enticing to alch

You're getting 3, 4 large or huge necro every so often at an activity

That piles up

[mellow pendant]

yeah & it's something you really don't even look at as an item, it's just a gp pile with a diff model lol

[austere tusk]

Rolling at common comps you can get just buying or smithing or whatever else

Or 350k gp

With osrs it's different because the scale is lower and different. If you're using addy or rune and you get a dragon or rune sword drop at slayer you think "wow I can use that" or crunch it into coins.

It's only coins in rs3 after the change, nevermind it was because of how getting a rune weapon or armor is nothing

[soft acorn]

i dont understand why we are back to this topic again after the majority of people said no thank u

u can’t bring back my lovely magic combat style and than hit all my bosses with nerfs

[mellow pendant]

because it was happening whether people said no thank you or not. jagex are doing it. they postponed to evaluate feedback.

[soft acorn]

they postponed because people got pissed

[mellow pendant]

people are always gonna get pissed at nerfs, that's what people do best. complain

[soft acorn]

bonds = more gp = more people buy it

[mellow pendant]

less liquid gp in eco = less gp available to spend on bonds = bonds don't sell = bonds become cheaper

that's how deflation works

[soft acorn]

brother the moment the new boss comes out 100% it will be busted with alchables

[mellow pendant]

with their current direction i really wouldn't say that till it releases

i'm as skeptical as you. maybe their design philosophy changed since the EGWD issues.

[soft acorn]

if they really are looking for the health of the game we love to see it

cuz deflation won’t be instant

[mellow pendant]

it's at least a step in the right direction. postponing this multiple times to take the appropriate action in the first go

[soft acorn]

but inflation is instant

[mellow pendant]

rather than nerfing things multiple times causes less anger overall too.

imagine if they did the original nerf, then did this one too

it's a very hard thing to get around as a dev i imagine.

[soft acorn]

it would be basic jagex move

[mellow pendant]

kinda just gotta hope it's the opposite really

[crisp steeple]

half the people that are upset don't even know why they're upset and are upset at something that genuinely doesn't exist

[soft acorn]

what u mean

i am upset cuz they lowering my gp per hour

[crisp steeple]

people think bonds are contributing to gold inflation

[mellow pendant]

if the eco deflates and your gp/hr at a lower rate is more valuable

technically your aren't losing gp

you gain spending power

[soft acorn]

the effect of that will take long

[mellow pendant]

if they do nothing though, it just gets worse

which we already see the effects of

so it's a case of: it gets to the point where eco might as well be dead, then game becomes iron only or dies

or they try to fix it and make the game last another 25 years

do you wanna make 1T/hr and spend like 200T on gear sets eventually? lol

[soft acorn]

no

[mellow pendant]

or just try and dial back inflation

[soft acorn]

probably mad

[vast meteor]

Let’s mint a new currency

[soft acorn]

i am ok with deflation

[mellow pendant]

then you have to endure the hard period of transition really, like you say. inflation is instant. deflation isn't

[soft acorn]

i just dont want it to be like gw1

where old bosses aren’t worth farming

[mellow pendant]

it won't be that bad 😛

[crisp steeple]

i would like to think jagex is trying to tackle gp + supplies inflation before looking at how TH devalues xp

remember when prismania used to be a lucrative promo and now it's basically just permanently running in the background of all other TH promos?

[vast meteor]

New gold coins. New currency!

[mellow pendant]

platinum pieces

[soft acorn]

my biggest issue is protean

[crisp steeple]

new currency doesn't really do anything

[vast meteor]

Yes proteins are quite bad for the economy

[soft acorn]

they want to help make skilling profitable like pvm

[vast meteor]

They drive down demand for real skilling mats

[mellow pendant]

i don't think you can fix proteans till you fix the issues with a lot of the game getting invalidated by certain things too

[soft acorn]

remove proteins and that will help 100x

[mellow pendant]

which chokes their supply of items that would come from them

[vast meteor]

It would raise prices of all skilling materials

[dawn tendon]

proteans make jagex monies though, so thats obviously off topic for them.

[mellow pendant]

like 1 persons rasial log accounts for 55K torstols, instead of those torstols being spread over multiple areas

[vast meteor]

Factual. They promised to discuss mtx over a year ago and never did

[crisp steeple]

even on my iron, i made such a tiny amount of potions to get to 120 because of daily challenges, penguins, herby werby, etc

my main got 200m agil* and almost all of it was from lamps and silverhawks

[mellow pendant]

92 off quests & dnd's. peng'd to 95. made 800~ ovls. 5k restore, 2.5k brews and 1k renew

basically got me 99

[crisp steeple]

yeah i made overloads in batches of like 50 at a time until i got 120 for the cape perk

game could use some better gold/item sinks too

[mellow pendant]

kinda just see this as the new CEO trying to fix some big mistakes that have happened. but who knows. it feels like a shift towards the better to me at least

[vast meteor]

If it’s platinum pieces we can have pp instead of gp and that would be funny

[vast meteor]

Agree/ it’s either genuine new efforts to change and grow the company or it’s same old same old lies and subversive tactics. I’m cautiously hopeful that it’s the former.

[mellow pendant]

the one thing that gives me hope is this statement

AFK should not = reward. that's not runescape, because then i'm playing another game and i want to play runescape

[vast meteor]

Jagex is very down to earth on this update idk why it has caused such an upset

[austere tusk]

Because it's a negative change to the immediate

[vast meteor]

Generally economics is something most people don’t have a deep understanding of, and they explained exactly why they made the decisions they did

[austere tusk]

The dopamine monkeys only want to see number go up for themselves with little concern for the health of the game economy

Gold is like a liquid hi-score

[vast meteor]

But the negative is a short term negative if you can even call it that

[austere tusk]

It's like a fever

It sucks but you're gonna be better after

[mellow pendant]

the best comparison i can draw is how PoE players react to patch notes

people seethe

[crisp steeple]

will be nice when Jagex stops giving free handouts to everyone

[mellow pendant]

then they login to the new league and forget it's happened lmao

[austere tusk]

They're all gonna be happy when Amascut drops

You get to kill another god!

[crisp steeple]

people losing their minds over TH gold influx. i guarantee most of the TH keys used daily are the ones you get for logging in and doing daily challenges

[austere tusk]

I think I may have bought a singular pack once, and only like 30

One time because I think

[mellow pendant]

don't quests give like 400+ keys per account?

[austere tusk]

I don't know what I think

[mellow pendant]

you get 2 per right

[austere tusk]

Yes

Plus daily challenges

Monthly key

2 daily

[crisp steeple]

i don't mind the quests because it's a one-time reward you got for completing in-game content

[austere tusk]

Yeah

[crisp steeple]

fishing 30 crayfish every day for fishing daily is not the same

[mellow pendant]

yeah it just all factors in to statistics

[austere tusk]

Here's my solution

[mellow pendant]

woulda liked to know how much gp comes from free TH vs paid but idk if they could even track that

[austere tusk]

Identify the 50 whales who spend their/parents' monthly income on the FOMO promo.

Disable TH for everyone but them.

Problem solved.

[crisp steeple]

like you get more keys in 3 months of logging in + dailies than you do from doing every quest

and this has been ongoing for like 10 years

[mellow pendant]

i'd just expect mtx later, 66% of the ingame gold coming from alch machines and alchs it a bit monkaw

vs that 5%

[austere tusk]

TH is on the shelf.

The other shelf not the content one

It'll come about I hope

For now we definitely should fix the gameplay economy issues not the broader game health issue of TH

[crisp steeple]

absolutely. i just think it's funny that the people who still choose to point at TH like it's the problem are very likely the ones feeding into that exact system

1 whale does far less damage than 30k players every day

[austere tusk]

I get it like if you're a newer or even veteran of the game you don't like the popups of promos and the little chest icon for your daily keys because it leads to then more ads for mtx

But it's small potatoes because impulse control is everything

[crisp steeple]

people want Jagex to nerf TH for everyone but them

gr8 feedback

[austere tusk]

And sure the whales lack impulse control

I mean I said it cuz it's funny

Let the whales whale to keep the lights on

[mellow pendant]

i got angry about squeel of fortune and just remained angry about it lol

[crisp steeple]

literally. one whale buying 900 keys once is equal to maybe 1 server daily in terms of keys used

jagex gives away over 2000 keys every year to each player

[austere tusk]

I get that MTX has been this Faustian bargain of sorts to keep jagex running

Probably

But it can be better

I think the two issues people have is the fact that the cosmetics are cool but locked behind gambling instead of content, and then probably the bigger issue is the XP items

Like proteans and dummies and stuff

Really lamps and stars are filler and super minor

[reef socket]

https://tenor.com/view/the-book-of-boba-fett-i-agree-to-their-terms-i-agree-with-their-terms-terms-rules-gif-16837302424938447654

[reef socket]

I think bonds for membership was the optimal point, and stuff beyond that was detrimental

[austere tusk]

I think rune coins for cosmetics is all fine because you just kinda get it

Ya know

No gamble

[mellow pendant]

all i'm saying is i woulda probably shelled out $150 on the broom walk alone

and i aint bought any mtx except keepsakes lol

[reef socket]

Something something slippery slope

But maybe lol

[soft island]

I wish all th cosmetics and discontinued ones are in marketplace for runecoins too

But can only dream I guess

[austere tusk]

I think it would be far more appealing to most players. They can get what they want and otherwise save up any pittance they get for loyalty

if you wanna charge the equivalent of $15 USD for polygons I mean other games do it

it's not some FOMO nonsense at least

I hope

I mean they would also probably do FOMO promotions on Solomon's store, but at least you can just get it

not "look at this cool new walk animation. Only 300 spins until you pity out into it!"

[mellow pendant]

not sure if you are familiar with the way Path of Exile handle their mtx/supporter packs

but i swear with that model i have probably spent like 5 grand on that game lol

[austere tusk]

is it FOMO promos?

[mellow pendant]

it's not a bad one either, it's all cosmetics but theyir popularity in the community is off the charts

[austere tusk]

like one month out of the year there's this sick cosmetic

[mellow pendant]

not exactly FOMO, but it's "seasonal" (league) themed cosmetic packs

[austere tusk]

oh yeah

more or less

[mellow pendant]

that are all specific to that leagues theme

it's a 1 time deal kinda thing too

[austere tusk]

I mean OSRS has leagues but those require just participation/getting far enough along for the cosmetics

[mellow pendant]

yee

leagues and stuff like that, good reward spaces

[austere tusk]

Hero Pass gives me a smile when I remember it. The like schadenfreude sort of smile

it did have some sick cosmetics at least

Yak always did, usually

[mellow pendant]

https://www.pathofexile.com/purchase

[austere tusk]

I liked the frem one

[mellow pendant]

these kinda packs

people are buying the $500 one like every league in some situations (3 month period)

[reef socket]

The premium stash tabs are p2w

I had a lot of them for trade purposes

[icy lark]

Agreed. I thought the same thing considering I was able to get seven 99's on one of my alt accounts this passed dxp weekend all with dummies and proteans. They were Dung, Herb, Craft, Agility, Smith, Arch, Slayer. They were all in the lower 90's to start because I used a lot of unstable ones before. in fact I never stepped foot in a Dungeoneering floor but I got 99. My suggestion is make it cost more to alch with the machines and with the spring cleaner. Why should anyone want to pay more for skilling resources when They can use proteans.

[mellow pendant]

i see stash tabs as pay for convenience/buying the game honestly

a casual player can spend $20 on first blood and beat all ubers with their stash space

if you wanna be a juicer. sure, you're buying tabs. i overall think their MTX model is extremely solid. same as warframe

[reef socket]

Guild stash tabs were great too

[mellow pendant]

yeah me an my duo kinda exclusively use our guild tabs now

[reef socket]

Expensive but worth it

[mellow pendant]

ye nice cos guild members can donate to the cost too

[reef socket]

Just have to trust them not to steal

Or properly handle permissions

[mellow pendant]

luckily it's just 3 of us and we trust each other with multiple mirrors. we give our mirror crafts to each other when we log off so they can still be serviced etc

[reef socket]

😃

[mellow pendant]

every build we own is "our" build essentially so ur just robbing yourself lol

[reef socket]

I miss the t88 spectre builds lol

[nocturne tangle]

going back a bit, agreed that 5 mech glacor changes are way overdoing it

they involve substantial effort and some skill - I would aim to benchmark 5-mech around the same commons/kill as 0-250 streaks

[mellow pendant]

ag needs dragged outside and shotgunned on every mode

[nocturne tangle]

don't get me wrong, AG needs a big nerf

but the biggest nerf being to 5-mech is perverse

[mellow pendant]

250 streaks need shotgunned too

aint nobody can say this is ok lol

perseverance or not

[nocturne tangle]

I don't disagree

200 streaks are a big problem given they're not that difficult

generally though

I don't think greater skill should reward substantially more common loot

common loot should aim to scale with effort, but not with skill

ofc those factors are intertwined

[crisp steeple]

i don't think it's awful to incentivize people into doing hardmode over 5 mech NM

[mellow pendant]

you do that with uniques

[nocturne tangle]

agreed, but it is awful to do it via common loot

[crisp steeple]

5 mech can remain a decent option for getting book/artefact

[mellow pendant]

like zuk and it's 50% increased rates

[nocturne tangle]

the only real justification imo for 200ks to yield better common loot/hr imo is the risk and greater supply cost

[mellow pendant]

there's "good" common loot tables

then there's "how much gp can we stuff into this" common tables

[crisp steeple]

would it be dumb if streak number = % multiplier on whatever common you get for that kill

so at streak 10 you get 10% more of whatever you got that kill

[mellow pendant]

think rewarding more commons at all for enrage is a flawed system at it's core honestly

[crisp steeple]

enrage is a shit system but it's the one we've got

[mellow pendant]

uniques should scale with enrage, commons be static

or you end up with situations like we have rn

and then in like 5 years when people can nearly afk 5k zammy (or w/e other edge case scenario comes up) the same will happen again

best comparison i can draw is ToA uniques. lol i push invo i get more uniques and still get 30k in coconut milk

[crisp steeple]

commons need to scale at least a little bit

a 0 enr kill takes like 30 seconds. 2k takes like 10x longer to do

[mellow pendant]

yeah i mean it all depends how long

because the difference on a 150 toa and a 450 solo is probably about 10 minutes too

can do 150's in like 15~

[nocturne tangle]

ye commons should broadly scale with ttk

[mellow pendant]

think it just felt overly generous atm

[nocturne tangle]

ye at every stage

[crisp steeple]

Actually tbh. I think commons already don't really scale with enrage

It's mostly the streak multiplier

[mellow pendant]

might be the streak yeah, idk if enrage effects anything elsewhere

[crisp steeple]

So what I meant earlier was commons need to scale with streak, because as streak goes up, so does enr which in turn leads to longer TTK

Enrage mostly affects uniques

[stone storm]

this might be a dumb question but i can't find it in the post, is this already live?

[reef socket]

No

Not monday either

[last topaz]

hey if you're worried about AG bringing too much money into the game maybe fix this awful scaling

almost nothing changes until 3000%
that's depressing

[vague locust]

people posting 200 AG streaks, how many hours is that taking? whats that break down to gp per hour. because they posted the amount of people who completed 1k 2k 3k 4k, and barely anyone has 1k+ done.

[reef socket]

Maybe 20-60h depending on the person

[proven perch]

I think mine took like 10h or smth but I wasn’t trying very hard for speed towards the 2nd half of the streak (I got a core)

Pvme has it marked down as like 600m avg/200ks in uniques alone rn (might go down a bit with ezk being more relevant but might be counterbalanced by increased core chance at higher enrages)

on top of that I think you can pretty reasonably expect to see like 600-800m in commons rn

with atleast like half of that being straight alchs

[proven perch]

I don’t think changing the scaling would really affect the people already doing 200 killstreaks tbh

[last topaz]

You don't need to do a 200 killstreak to get a ton of rewards from AG HM.

[proven perch]

I mean you don’t, but bigger streaks are far more rewarding than smaller ones

imo my only real gripes with the AG changes are that it might end up nuking the price of water runes / cannonballs

[crisp steeple]

elemental runes should be cheap anyways tbh

[proven perch]

tbf waters are already pretty cheap

[last topaz]

This would make it harder for people to do the streaks and limit who has the gear to do them. Both of those have a similar effect to nerfing the rewards (I'm not saying they should not nerf AG HM just that there's more than one knob to turn).

[proven perch]

I mean personally I think in order to have any real effect the scaling would have to be harsh enough to where it fundamentally changes AG as a fight

and at that point that’s just worse than tweaking the drops

[uneven ember]

Sorry if this seems dumb but has this update been rolled out yet?

[proven perch]

no

[lethal tide]

Commons are only affected by streak, unique chance is affected by both

If you somehow got a 200ks at 4000% without uniques it would basically look the same as a 200 ks started from 0% without uniques

Ofc at 4000% you're getting on average ~9 uniques rn and starting at 0% you 'only' get 3

[vague locust]

thats not a bad time, i think 0-5 is 2 hours for me and 500-1k was around 3.5 hrs. but by 1k the loot was nothing near what a 200 ks is.

[lethal tide]

The loot from 1-100 kills is about 1/4 of the total loot for 1-200, or 1/3 of the loot of 101-200

That's why you should always be trying to push ks

[hazy crest]

Game needs to go back to having bosses where majority of the value comes from its rares, not the commons.

And using invention to sink those items from the game to keep it balanced-ish

New boss -> new armour/tools -> new invention resource -> new perk useful perk? causes people to disassemble the new gear to get the new perk.

[open blade]

Still think they missed the opportunity to add charms to hard mode arch glacor

[winter cosmos]

I like how they mention ED3 kills Game Progression but ignores necro

[mellow pendant]

necro forces you to go kill different bosses to get gear at least

EGWDs progression is: make account, get 60 magic, afk 1 mech

[tardy bane]

How are irons supposed to gather inert adrenaline crystals after the nerf? Making a supply of any adrenaline pot will take so much longer

[mellow pendant]

by letting them respond to feedback, all that should be fine

[tardy bane]

oh thank you,i didn't see that

[mellow pendant]

npnp, valid concerns though

[vast meteor]

Upset by process on an iron taking too long? Time to play mainscape it seems

[tardy bane]

yeah kera and raksha (if you're a high level iron) were the only okay sources for them,then we have croesus but that droprate didnt mean you would see any of them in an hour,and then we had high level slayer monsters who drops them at 1 per time,getting just any adren pot is already a pain in the ass let alone after the nerf

[mellow pendant]

i'd expect them to move them somewhere that will have a bit friction for mains but still provide us with a good income from iron pov, i think the issues stem from the bosses being heavily farmed and having a strangehold on the materials they do drop in bulk

[tardy bane]

oh don't you worry i already do,and being concerned about an important item losing all their best sources is something me and a lot of other irons share so get off your high horse

[vast meteor]

Oh naur im on a high horse

I’d like to see iron become much harder

[reef socket]

Gotta pay the iron price!

[covert igloo]

This^^^^

Alot of times a good "iron" update will usually be good for mains too

[iron snow]

Nah, not this one. After a lot of ppl alrdy farmed their bit of salvages, its non sense…

[obsidian flare]

I was thinking the numbers from arch-glacor don't add up with my own experience, so I checked it on wiki. Compare coins with gp from medium blunt salvage.

Second is hardmode, can do normal mode but numbers are also like a factor 4 or 5.

normal mode:

Possibly it doesn't account for people using a spring cleaner?

[turbid patio]

What are you curious about?

[obsidian flare]

I'd like to know how much of that gp is from normal mode and how much is from hard mode and I might be able to deduce it from that.

I wonder if spring cleaners explain the inconsistency

[turbid patio]

Ah ok, it's from both NM and HM and the values are daily averages

[obsidian flare]

Yes but they are inconsistent with loot data from wiki.

[turbid patio]

i'd have to ask one of our data analysts if it counts spring cleaner'd ones too

[turbid patio]

Do you have a link?

[obsidian flare]

I used this: https://runescape.wiki/w/Money_making_guide/Killing_the_Arch-Glacor#Normal_Mode

[turbid patio]

ah gotcha

and how are you finding the inconsistency?

[obsidian flare]

Divide gp from Medium blunt orikalkum salvage with the coins loot. This is about a factor 4 or 5. In the article the numbers are close.

[turbid patio]

do you mind laying your math out for me?

[obsidian flare]

To be precise we should take the amount x 75k: example normal mode 8.04 x 75k / 124,720 = 4.8 , article: 2.99/3.04 = 0.98

[turbid patio]

why are you dividing by the coins value? ( / 124,720 )

Same with this? "article: 2.99/3.04 = 0.98"

[obsidian flare]

To see how much gp comes from these salvages compared to normal coin drops.

[turbid patio]

as a percentage of the total or?

[obsidian flare]

About 5 times more gp comes from these salvages

[turbid patio]

oh right

you'd have to factor in drop chance too

[obsidian flare]

Wiki does this for me

[turbid patio]

and that daily numbers are always different, since it's averages and people killing glacor fluctuates each day

[obsidian flare]

The number of people kill glacor is irrelevant because it is certainly more than enough to get values close to average.

If I flip a coin 100000000 times about 50% is top.

[vague locust]

if jagex pulled numbers from the game, they are correct. wiki likely isnt updated.

[turbid patio]

if you change the date range on data, the averages would be different between any type of date

[obsidian flare]

the ratio would still be the same.

doesn't matter if I flip a coin 10000 times or 100000 times, about 50% is tail.

[vague locust]

look at the rcing, the money it says vs reality doesnt add up on wiki. cant always trust wiki :/

[turbid patio]

that's with a 50/50 chance of something that has 2 outcomes

in this case there's a lot more variables that affect the outcomes

[vague locust]

id be curious what kind of money AG was producing prior to the first "nerfing" update.

[obsidian flare]

Do you know the law of big numbers?

[vague locust]

i kinda doubt people went to farm it knowing a nerf was coming

[turbid patio]

broadly yes, that wouldn't apply here either though because of the variance in date ranges

it's not large enough of a number for it to have been exact

[iron snow]

As I said they don’t respond lol fr.

[obsidian flare]

This is basic statistics. Anyway please ask your data analysts.

[turbid patio]

ok 1 sec i'll get some data

for 15 days in april, AG brought in, on average
3.89b in coins
3.82b in Orik salvage

for another 15 days in april, AG brought in, on average
4.03b in coins
3.9b in orik salvage

does that help with your calculations?

[iron snow]

And how many players were generating that?

Exact number please

[obsidian flare]

Well ratio appears to stay about the same.

[turbid patio]

differing numbers of players on each, because of the chance to get each item

some could be claims of chests on a day too

potentially thats where some variance comes in @obsidian flare

[obsidian flare]

do you have separate data for only normal mode?

[iron snow]

So basically cause inflow is too high, and mtx was lowering that’s why this is being pushed?

[turbid patio]

I'd have to put a request in

to our analytics team

[turbid patio]

We laid out the reasons in the blog. But briefly, they are GP inflation, oversupply of certain items, and in some cases progression

[obsidian flare]

Yea there might some difference with hardmode and normal mode because you can't use a spring cleaner for hardmode

[turbid patio]

yeah that too

[vague locust]

does the AG numbers factor in loot lost when someone dies during a hm streak or does it minus that?

[turbid patio]

nah it wouldn't include those

[iron snow]

Im slow learner Ill admit it - but with reduction this will let supplying rise in price?

[turbid patio]

it'd be what definitely enters the game

[iron snow]

Meaning skilling items or the ones used in skills

[turbid patio]

slowly, and at varying rates for each item

[obsidian flare]

I am really curious about this btw.

[vague locust]

oh ok. im not disagreeing with AG loot nerf. im tired of seeds and nests.

just dont like the zammy nerf 😛

[turbid patio]

yeah and pvm supplies like pots etc

[turbid patio]

for what reason(s)?

[iron snow]

Thanks!

[vague locust]

my biggest issue is the dex drop have lost so much value that getting them is a curse. Then theres the issue of the cost of BIS gear to do zammy fast for max kills per hour. we spend a fortune just to do zammy. death costs are rough if your trying to push enrage. Then you guys say +10% chance to BOLG piece but what items are lowering drop rate on for that? im over drop rate at zammy on average, so yes id love +10% bolg piece, but only if its nerfing the dex drop rate and not havoc set.

theres time some of us get 1-2 kills per hour trying to push enrage and die 5-6 times. the combat data live stream showed how often on average people die at zammy, and its a solid chunk of cash being pulled out of the game just from 1 boss.

[dire nest]

Getting ready to drop zammy as dead content I see

[turbid patio]

so in short you'd want vestments rates buffed too?

[vague locust]

that would be awesome, nerf the dex rate and up the bolg and havoc sets. id stop complaining 100%

but only for 500%+ enrage. lower enrage deserves a nerf, id agree.

[turbid patio]

Then you guys say +10% chance to BOLG piece but what items are lowering drop rate on for that?
None of the other zammy rares are being "nerfed" if thats what you're asking

[vague locust]

oh i misunderstood. i thought in order to up the bolg rate, the others would have to eat the increase by decreasing there drop rate.

tbh, look at the dex prices just from this year. they have crashed so hard. down over 50% :((

4m for lost knowledge is rough. 44m for roar is a killer.

[obsidian flare]

So I think way more gp is coming from normal mode arch-glacor than hardmode arch-glacor. There is no point doing math, because I don't know how many players are using a spring cleaner.

[vague locust]

people who can do 200 kill streaks are likely buffing the hm numbers. :/

[turbid patio]

it'd be the most rational conclusion, given how easy it is to AFK and the numbers we've seen of GIM doing it since release and so on

generally you'd find more killers of NM than HM for any boss

[reef socket]

Is the intent to lower the rate of inflation where the money supply still increases but slower, or cause deflation where the money supply goes down over time, or keep the money supply mostly constant?

[soft acorn]

pls refund fsoa eof

deflation inflation, truth is i love big numbers, u all knew it was gg the moment u removed max cash, doing these nerfs on pvm won’t do anything, because it’s years too late, bring back high death cost and watch real deflation. 100mil risk 10mil death LETS GO

[mellow pendant]

only way that works is if you let people with 0 kc on bosses have a grace period to learn

maybe 50kc or something

[dire nest]

That's your own fault, my guy.

[opaque viper]

wonder how many people are going to post this picture. I have seen it multiple times

[mellow pendant]

probably from me

[opaque viper]

nah I have seen at least 2 other players post it

I personally just don't have a big issue with it. I mean its a high percentage with a pretty long run. I don't think those instances are where the problems are coming from

once the charms are nerfed all drops are going to go way down anyway cause the boss is going to be used way less, which I guess is the goal

[mellow pendant]

i wouldn't have an issue if it was 1b in assorted items

1/10th of that loot is literally salvage alone

then the gp, then the staves

you SHOULD be rewarded for pvm, but that's just obscene

[opaque viper]

yeah, I get that

well the salvage part

again for a streak that long at that enrage, the 1b doesn't bother me

I would never do a streak like that at glacor anyway lol

[mellow pendant]

yeah like the whole "1b value" is fine

it's just the effect the instant liquid has on the eco, especially when people are opposed to tax and such lol, that gp gotta go somewhere

[opaque viper]

honestly the GE tax doesn't bother me at all

I do wish there were more ways to get money out of the game though, I feel like shops aren't used at full potential for that

[mellow pendant]

shops going daily kind of took away from them being a gp sink

[covert igloo]

hardmode ag loot has to be nerfed its so insane

but remove the spirit weed seed nerf

[flat sage]

Fwiw, they will be adding them to other sources to make up for it ^^
(second paragraph in ss)

[turbid patio]

spirit weed seeds are still on NM AG too

didn't explictly state in the blog if we kept or removed them from NM

[crisp steeple]

Maybe that's because the only boss endgame players are farming is Zam because almost nothing else comes remotely close to it. Next best is basically sanctum but if you go dry on shard you're screwed. Zammy floor profit is insane because of alchs and BLM means you can never go dry

Boss is just farmed to shit

This is the problem with boss design the last like 5-7 years where some random dude at jagex decided that every boss needs to be significantly more profitable than the last or else nobody will do it

[mellow pendant]

that's pretty much the snowball effect i have been trying to explain

new boss has to beat last boss or why do new boss

[turbid patio]

Thats more or less been the approach for even longer than the past 7 years tbh, but definitely gotten more and more over time

Though it is important too, there's a lot of eyes on a new boss' profitability

It's usually one of the first things that's brought up

[crisp steeple]

Idk how zammy 2ks landed on the "50% better than next best option" cuz that's insane

At one point, zam was like 6 of the top 10 moneymakers in game (at various enrages)

[turbid patio]

there was a crazy stat i saw about how Zammy affected GP income in its first 3 months

ah it was the change to Zammy only needing 1 dungeon clear and then you could skip to boss straight away

Volume of gold in game increased by 12.5% in the following 3 months

i wish i could share this chart but it's nuts

maybe should've included that stat in the blog

[mellow pendant]

[crisp steeple]

I believe it

[mellow pendant]

that's a... number for sure

[turbid patio]

that was the reaction on my face too

Between the max cash/death cost changes and that ED4 skip change, amount of cash in game was actually fairly consistent

a period of about a year, during 2023

but after that

https://tenor.com/view/stonks-meme-gif-16107418

[crisp steeple]

Breezy I have a question you may or may not be able to answer

There's a lot of grumbling from players about how long it takes Jagex to "fix" stuff sometimes. We all knew since release that everything in GWD3 was way overtuned. Obviously you can't make everything a top priority, and you also want to avoid knee-jerk reactions but are there any talks internally about possibly improving the response time on things like this?

[turbid patio]

there's a handful of us trying to push for it specifically

[crisp steeple]

Pog

[turbid patio]

at the start of this year especially i came in asking for game health updates

trying to push for regular occurances of it

99% of the time we have projects to work on and do what we're told to do

sometimes we can get some spare time to make some changes

the one on the roadmap in autumn time and this one here were pushes by a few of us designers

I think one every 3 months would be a nice position to get to, as the first goal

well, first big goal

first goal is to actually just get some done period

[crisp steeple]

Appreciate your efforts. Always felt it was a bit odd that there were never reviews/audits of how the game/content is doing

[turbid patio]

i mentioned on reddit just earlier but it's usually because we let the GP/item economy be and work itself out

we don't often mess around with things

but we play the game ourselves and can see the effects its having

FSW, GIM were both good opportunities for folk to realise it again too

[crisp steeple]

I love that the Solak page update happened cuz Ramen got to Solak on his iron and went "wait this sucks"

[turbid patio]

I can have more influence now than when EGWD came out because back then i was in QA

since becoming designer, more and more i've been able to have influence on these sorts of things

in fact Zammy was my last project as QA

[mellow pendant]

has there ever been any thoughts of doing something similar to osrs in regards to the way that they handle their ge tax? (i.e using the taxed gp to eliminate uniques from the eco)

would that ever work in rs's economy? not even from a unique standpoint, think more a long the skilling/common loot lines

like the influx of AG banites or something

[turbid patio]

im not sure if it'd work or not, but we did actually talk about it the other week funnily enough

it's something we should at least investigate cause yeah

[mellow pendant]

just seems like a pretty elegant way to deal with it, seems like it's had a good effect over there on their uniques. all 3 mega rares have been solidly above 1b for a long time now

[crisp steeple]

I think the hope was invention would do a lot of heavy lifting for item sinks

And it does decently for stuff like araxxor

[mellow pendant]

invention has done it's job at propping up things like raxx & vindi etc yeah

[crisp steeple]

But there's way too much stuff and most of it is not worth disassembling

[mellow pendant]

pretty sure for a while it worked on the commons too, but the more we figured out DA rates the less that helped ig

[crisp steeple]

It also places the onus on the player to sink items out of the game themselves, generally at their own expense which doesn't always feel great

[covert igloo]

am i wrong in saying a huge issue with AG is the streak mechanic?
how much comes into the game non-streak vs streak?

[west narwhal]

it is kinda. I remember in a previous gamejam or something one of the mods wanted to remove streaking

but it was very poorly received by the community

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/18hdkzt/a_clarification_on_what_removal_of_streaking/

[covert igloo]

yeah cus ive been doing ag and the amount of stuff from streaking FAR outweighs the boss itself

and so i was thinking maybe just removing streaking alltogether is good?

[west narwhal]

I'm guessing they decided not to do this in the end? idk

[crisp steeple]

I think it was a Shogun project and he dipped for OSRS some time ago

[turbid patio]

i might ask Shogun next opportunity i get

i actually personally dont like enrage multiplying rewards

or not as much

i think enrage pushing should be done for achievement solely

[mellow pendant]

this pretty much, enrage seems like a total nightmare to balance with loot scaling in mind

[turbid patio]

i think there should be a scaling system, but with emphasis on achievement first, not drops

[crisp steeple]

If we're being real technical

AG and Telos enrage don't really affect loot multiplier

[mellow pendant]

yeah i mean, telos seemed pretty fine

[crisp steeple]

It's almost entirely coming from the streak mechanic

[turbid patio]

i put that in the same basket

[crisp steeple]

Like a 2449 enr telos claim gives the same commons as a 100 enr claim

I'd be content with never adding another streak boss again

[covert igloo]

yeah while im by no means saying the amount of loot was super ok to begin with, the difference in getting 70 birds nests pr kill and 3000 definitely matters

if it never had any streak scaling im sure the severity of AG's case would be well lowered

[proven perch]

I feel like streak bosses would be better if there was more incentive to start streaks at enrages where the boss actually poses a threat

at say AG you blitz through the first 1/2 of the streak in a few hours and from there onwards its just insane loot

[covert igloo]

i genuinely dont think there is any place for streaks in the first place, its only purpose is to bring in obscene amounts of loot

[west narwhal]

the idea is to test your consistency, which makes sense. but they needed a reward for that so

I think the main problem is when streaks were made for telos nobody was envisioning ppl could regularly streak that high

I'm actually wondering how much impact telos streaking even has, considering the low amount of ppl who can do it well

with AG it's def easier to streak high

[weak estuary]

any plans to tweak kk's drops? or is it just not worth it?

[west narwhal]

I think it's getting the starbloom seeds for 110 crafting

but no news on a whole droptable rework

[soft acorn]

please nerf the bosses even more

please make it to wear u just lose money pvming ❤️

[iron snow]

If there is any PVM content where you lack knowledge on how it works - you will continue to lose money, with dying alone (depending on gear I suppose), then again, if boss is worth it, then in long run you break even or profit. Few of examples: High enrage Zamorak, HM Voragos/Solak solo. The thing is, this profit/break even part - shouldn't come from commons as Breezy stated thus it's lowered for overflow, in general, and wishes that it is spread around different type of contents.

that's why it's in experimental phase to see if in long term run, this will change things.

[turbid patio]

most likely this

[icy rampart]

This is the thing that mystifies me the most about this update. Hermod is consistently the most rubbish boss in Runescape. He's boring, slow, and gives terrible drops. The boss arena also taxes low end GPUs because ... I don't know why, but if I don't play on my desktop with an RTX 4070 Super it's super laggy. If they're going to take away the Arch Glacor sources of important herblore ingredients, the least they could do is make Hermod worth doing.

[soft acorn]

just want my fsoa eof refunded

[turbid patio]

spirit weeds are still on NM AG and will be put on some other mobs

[cedar horizon]

Do we have a release date for the chages yet? sorry if i missed it?

[vague locust]

not yet. hopefully they give us a 2 week notice.

[vast meteor]

I’d like to see them hit well before, or after, the 110 crafting release so that the community isn’t on a rampage for the crafting update feedback.

[vast meteor]

Hermod is slept on. He’s a fantastic fight to learn Necromancy with. A very solid, consistent fight.

[vast meteor]

Also, my 1070 can run med-high graphics. Anything above that should be just fine maybe try changing settings around and ensuring your gpu usage isn’t throttled. How much RAM are you running?

Or make sure your foreground fps isn’t set to like 150 or sm

[obsidian flare]

Are you going to give separate number for arch-glacor normal mode and hardmode? I do think it is very important to be fully transparent about this to justify the nerfs of hard mode.

[cold pagoda]

Idk dude, something sounds up. I have zero issues with it with a 1070

[cold pagoda]

Oh glad to see somebody else literally said the same thing lmao

[fringe relic]

A really crazy gold sink idea: a Gold Blast spell that melts your coins and hits enemies up to the same damage as the amount of coins melted. This would also act as a sink for nature runes. We could also make this spell do typeless instead of magic damage; this would also fill a niche as there aren't many other ways for players to do typeless damage.

[vast meteor]

Nice profile pic 👌🏻

1070 club

[reef socket]

There’s a perk that does something like that, not too popular though

[pearl owl]

@turbid patio sorry for the ping, but I just want to confirm since there seems to still be no release date set - are we getting at least some advance notice for these changes going live? It's definitely not coming tomorrow/today with the Monday update right?

[vast meteor]

Plot twist, it’s already shadowdropped and Jagex wanted to see how long it would take us to notice without being told. Jk. Unless… 👀

[pearl owl]

I opened some wildy sacks on an alt 2 days ago and they still had necronium in so it wasn't that 😛

just don't want to waste this sack stack on main

[twin mesa]

I mean if you know they will get nerfed at some point, you can simply open them now to minimize any potential loss

[pearl owl]

yeah I was considering that... but I wanted to do one last huge opening of them with the biggest amount before the nerf

[mellow pendant]

getting 50% more cores before price starts to fall (like just after nerf) might also be better than lost salvage

aren't they still like 700m

[pearl owl]

yeah I was thinking the small sacks before the nerf, then the big ones after

since for the small ones its a pure nerf

[mellow pendant]

that's what i would do personally yeah, pop normals and save very wild

[west narwhal]

it's not coming this monday at least

was mentioned in a jmod message

lemme see

[pearl owl]

okay good to hear that at least, I looked through here but didn't see anything like that. Was it in a different channel or on reddit?

[west narwhal]

mentioned here

[pearl owl]

ahh I see it, ty 🙂

[turbid patio]

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1l1hi75/game_health_update_tweaks_from_your_feedback/

[turbid patio]

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/1l1hi75/game_health_update_tweaks_from_your_feedback/mvl3iqg/

[covert igloo]

good changes, have the slayer mobs in question been set in stone yet?
anything you can reveal? :3

[limber lichen]

Why am I missing Telos in this?

[vague locust]

they play favorites, they skipped the tons of shards being dropped for a reason 🙂

[untold parrot]

Hopefully they are slayer monsters that are a little more on the afk side, or at the very least in a cannonable location.

I know it’s out of the scope of this update Breezy, but would be nice to have new slayer masks introduced with having some boss/economy drops pushed towards slayer loot tables.

Few that come to mind are lost grove creatures (dropped from solak table maybe) mammoth, wyvern, camel warrior, ripper, edimmu, seeker/soul gazer, or anything with an elite really

[covert igloo]

this seems better to put in #1019643494429642872 as a separate post i think

[untold parrot]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[covert igloo]

im just saying it might be taken more into consideration there

[reef socket]

Yeah telos streaks are like 250m/h for some

Not sure about alchables though

[mellow pendant]

honestly don't think telos has ever been a big issue. take this with a grain of salt because i'm using numbers from 4-5 years ago but.
pre 100% claims are roughly 300k per kill and post 100% claims are roughly 400k in commons and 1M per kill in rares (roughly 800 kills needed to cash in)

like he really only gets worth at 500%

[vague locust]

i know people pulling 200m/hr from telos daily.

2k enrage with streaking is crazy money.

[reef socket]

Yeah lol

[mellow pendant]

is this mainly uniques or commons though

because the common/raw gp is where issues lie

if someone can pull 200m/hr and most of that EV is in rares, that's pretty healthy imo

been a long time since i even looked at high enrage telos so i can't even remember

[reef socket]

Yeah that’s what I’m wondering

Anyways the more they nerf the more money I lose

[mellow pendant]

idk if we shoulda been making this much/hr in the first place

[vague locust]

i still LOL at the zammy nerf because the average drop rate vs what the drop rate is supposed to be on wiki laughable. But yea, kill the bosses commons and keep the average drop rate way off of what it should be, makes perfect sense. 1/13 chance but is actually on average 1/57 is dirty work tbh. Before zammy is nerfed, id like to see all the jmods who are apart of this, live stream them doing a 500 solo. Until then i dont think they are the right people to have a say in it. If you cant do a boss, you shouldnt be nerfing a boss.

[covert igloo]

at zammy rn its a 1/52 for a unique at 500% enrage and a 12.5% chance for that unique to be a bolg
a 10% chance increase in the bow dropchance only doesnt that just mean its a 13.75% chance you get it if you hit the 1/52 drop table?

or is it additive 10% (22.5%)?

[vague locust]

i dont think they even know at this point. they arent being clear on it and have no desire to say how it effects it. It easier to just avoid us than to explain it.

[covert igloo]

hahahaha yeah i guess so XD

im of the nuclear take that i think rares in general should be less rare

more akin to kerapac type rarity

[covert igloo]

like they could just increase the chance of any rare on zammy by 10%

[vague locust]

ahhh yes the kerapac drop rate xD

[covert igloo]

OOF

well atleast thats getting buffed

[vague locust]

codex of lost knowledge should be used for zammy comps at this point, its the same price a subj pieces. LMFAO.

[covert igloo]

true

[vague locust]

yea my kera rng is rigged. i got 7 sets of wrist wraps before i ever got a book. how thats possible idk. they must have found my rs account and tanked my rng. -_-

50% dex rate is pretty wild ngl, and i see many other people with rng like this. This is from doing 500s to 4k LMFAO

[covert igloo]

according to wiki

500–749% 17.5% bow chance 30% codex chance 29.2 uniques till log

[vague locust]

they lie lie lie. thats all i can say

[covert igloo]

at a droprate of 1/52 thats about 1500 kills?

which is still absolutely mental no?

like those kills are not that fast

[vague locust]

at this point i trust 0 of the numbers they put out. From what ive posted from 2 bosses, their math dont add up. this isnt a 1 off either, i showed 2 examples.

[covert igloo]

while what you are saying is fair, do be noted i got my fsoa completed at 460

which is approximate droprate

[vague locust]

yea my rng is tanked on literally every boss, i can post more example too

but like i said, its easier for them to avoid this conversation than admit theres a problem.

[covert igloo]

to be fair, adressing luck with stuff like BLM brings in a whole slew of hatred

anytime they make changes like that they get immense pushback

[mellow pendant]

don't worry. me on my basilisk jaw grind on osrs

[vague locust]

oh god, im sorry to see that man. 😮

[mellow pendant]

some of us are just cursed lol

[vague locust]

yea, maybe in another 20 years we will get our rng buffed. maybe the next ceo will have had our luck and change things for us.

[covert igloo]

i need blm so bad i dont wanna do more rasial

i know im not that unlucky but 1820 kills and no pants

but 7 boots and 6 hands in its place

losing it

[mellow pendant]

blm has to be done extremely well or it can be kinda bad

like even abyssal sire has blm in osrs, works there because the 3 pieces are untradeable so you still need your 3 pieces for the "big drop"

[vague locust]

instead of blm, add a "must drop by rate". example BOLG piece, if no bolg piece by 100kc, must drop. all kills must be completed at certian enrage or higher. problem solved

[covert igloo]

stuff like that is directly BLM aswell though, blm can be done in a plethora of ways

and in general its just a way to mitigate RNG

[mellow pendant]

lemme fire up the bot farms real quick

sounds like heaven

now it's 1 bond to reach X kc to guarantee X return

[covert igloo]

to be fair if bot farms can do the boss anyways BLM wont change much

also, the way you can do this and make it fair

is to make them untradeable

it always comes back to that

[mellow pendant]

yeah things would have to drop in untradeable pieces then people are just gonna be pissed they can't cash out because they got a piece & have to wait till they have all 3

[mellow pendant]

it's more of the fact that botting pvm is a gamble on returns (excluding the commons)

[covert igloo]

haha yeah i mean its really hard when they want the economy to be a part of literally everything

we see in stuff like overloads, some level of untradeable is clearly healthy

[vague locust]

if a bot can do 1k zammy, i wanna see it. also that falls on the anti cheat team, they should be able to monitor that.

[mellow pendant]

yeah i mean for 1k zammy sure, but i don't think you can only give BLm to like 2% of your population either lol

if you do BLM it's gotta be global

[vague locust]

500% and above should have blm

the rest is just pure farming.

[covert igloo]

you can restrict it to x total level or x quest points

[vague locust]

lets be honest, you can mech skip 500s so its not like its hard to do.

[covert igloo]

or some other arbitrary measure that makes bot farms way less efficient

the biggest stopper to botfarms is barrier to entry

a bot that has to get 2900 total level before it has access to BLM is a lot less efficient than one that just goes straight to the boss

hell even 2800 or 2700 total

you get my point though right

[vague locust]

you cant get staff piece from kera unless you do hm, so why are bolg pieces dropping at 200% zam............. that doesnt seem right.

[covert igloo]

idm them dropping in normal mode, NM kera and zamorak are two entirely different beasts

kera is essentially not a boss in normal mode

and more of a slayer mob

[vague locust]

200% zammy is joke though, its completely free just like nm kera.

once you hit 500% its actualy like "ok i need to pay attention"

[covert igloo]

no those two are incomparable
nonetheless we are getting off topic

[vague locust]

anyways yea back on topic. they said july they want to push this update out. maybe they can host a live stream with mod north and answer questions?

i think they should update invention comp tables before they try nerfing drops. See if that helps first. claiming theres to much money being added to game while mtx pumps massives amounts of money into the game is wild.

lower alch values, while changing invention comps would off set the gp intake and burn items from the game. seems like a win win.

[turbid patio]

They aren't claims, they are fact. The blog literally has it in the data tables and TH is sitting at the same (and actually less) than 2023

[turbid patio]

Does it help if 2 of us were also on the team that designed and made Zammy?

[vague locust]

i love zammy, its my favorite boss but i posted my log there and kerapac. feel free to address that.

id still want to see you guys do a solo 500.

[covert igloo]

yeah i mean the evidence seems pretty irrefutable on the gold front

there is definitely too much coming in from too much

i still think streaking as a mechanic is a big issue here

as it seems based around actually dying and not doing 200s

i would love to see details on the amount of mats added through streaking vs just NM/HM kills

[turbid patio]

not really sure what you want me to say on your drops

[covert igloo]

its just rng in the end

it sucks

but it is what it is

thats what no BLM will do

[vague locust]

50% dex drop rate with blm. not a fan.

[mellow pendant]

tell him to get the drop/say Badoodle

[turbid patio]

i bless you with some jmod rng

[covert igloo]

poggerschampion

[covert igloo]

do you know if the extra bolg chance is additive or multiplicative with base chance?

[vague locust]

xD alright breezy you win this one.

[dire nest]

Not sure why you're trying to fight this, they gonna be trying to kill off Zammy content anyways

[covert igloo]

the common nerf seems much overdue

[vague locust]

yea ive come to accept it but still not happy

[mellow pendant]

i just look at it from the longterm, if enrages are: too generous rn, even if only a few % make it/commons are already being rained on us what happens in a few years

what do the bosses 5 bosses down the road drop

1b/hr?

[covert igloo]

tbh enrages shouldnt scale much after 1k anyways

arguably 2k

[mellow pendant]

eventually we get to diablo 3 numbers per hour

[covert igloo]

number squishes good

[crisp steeple]

the former

[crisp steeple]

this may be useful

[covert igloo]

ty!

[crisp steeple]

brother you are slightly unlucky at kera and basically average drop rate at zam. what exactly is your problem? acting like there's some Jagex sleeper agent personally gatekeeping your account from getting drops. not to make this a pissing match, but if you had my accounts RNG you'd be on your knees begging to have your old luck back

[reef socket]

Have you tried streaming?

[vague locust]

yea i hear streamer luck is a thing! my friend streamed zam and b2b2b drops, 3 kills 3 drops!

[vague locust]

i wish it was average my guy, 1/47 is mine, i should be around 1/30 or less. -_-

[crisp steeple]

you're a little dry

it's not the end of the world

[trail knot]

I actually learned ed5 because I need elder wood spirits to make the hatchet. Was kinda disappointed how few of them I got

cries in 1600 Kril kills

[frail orbit]

RS Great again at making the game lose many more players, proud of you

[iron snow]

It's June already and May is still discussed? 😮

[stiff harness]

Just to clarify — the May Game Health Feedback Response thread was posted five days ago (only three business days back)

Jagex has been actively reviewing and responding since. Discussions here are still relevant through the lead-up to the release

Update threads usually stay open well past 30 days for that reason.

[vague locust]

they said this update might ship in july, so hopefully its looked at until release.

they said they its ready to go but who at the office is stopping it? is there some approval issues going on?

[iron snow]

Ah, thanks!

[soft acorn]

refund fsoa eof please

[fringe relic]

Another band-aid idea: make [[Richie (achievement)]] worth RuneScore.

[dense garden]

Wiki links found:
https://runescape.wiki/w/Richie_(achievement)

[obsidian flare]

Are you going to give us this data? Surely you have used this to make decisions. Or has nobody looked at this at all? Also kerapac normal mode is interesting. We know that these normal modes are farmed a lot because they are afk. I see a reddit post of someone with 60k normal mode kills. Transparency is important, because without that data in theory 99.9% of all salvage of these bosses could be from normal mode.

[vague locust]

could make bosses drop less loot once log has been completed. that way people cant over farm a boss and everyone has a fair chance to make a lil gp.

and if people make new accounts to farm p2p bosses, doesnt that only bring irl money to the game? though bonds or membs. surely the owner of jagex would want an update that can or could bring more money into the pockets.

[obsidian flare]

Interesting idea but probably not trivial to implement. For arch-glacor you get log progress when you claim the chest and when you make the items.

[vague locust]

once it hits the chest, it should count it as log item. To prevent anyone trying to avoid getting log.

as far as the items to make, those shouldnt be counted as "drop loot". should be excluded from it.

[obsidian flare]

I think solutions like this are complex for the devs to implement and not really necessary. The number of people farming arch-glacor hardmode are a minority because other bosses are more profitable. In fact increasing the core chance will decrease the amount of salvage entering the game because people will complete their logs faster.

Arch-glacor is really notorious for getting dry on core.

And it has a big downside that people who like to farm bosses will not like it. Many will complain.

[vague locust]

my thoughts on this are pretty simple. Dont push this update out. 2025 has not been a good year. The survey, a new ceo right after, not addressing mtx, an unhappy user base, pissing rcers off by them dying to pkers at abbys. This new ceo should be looking at this like "this is how i will be remembered, ill be the guy people bring up when the terrible 2025 year is discussed". If he wants his legacy to start out in shambles and people to go from loving him and having hope he can do great things to we hate you over night, this update will basicially be the begining to lack of trust in leadership. Theyve made progress in the support system and generating a positive response, but i think this update will be another "oh here we go again, jagex doesnt listen, doesnt play there own game, doesnt care, does not address our concerns timely and only claims to have the best interest of the game in mind, while also destroying trust and the game"

[obsidian flare]

If it were up to me, I'd only do big nerfs for the outliers: 0-1 mechanic arch-glacor and kerapac normal mode. Only small nerfs for the rest like 10-20%. Then I'd just wait and see how it impacts the game. If necessary more nerfs later.

[vague locust]

i agree, start small at every boss that is getting farmed, not just a few hand picked ones. Once you nerf these bosses, people will go to other bosses and the same problems will happen. i dont understand how they havent thought of "oh we nerf these, people will go to these instead". the math dont add up. we will always find a way to farm gp. until they address it as a whole, they will just be upping the farm rates at other bosses, which in return will up the gp coming into the game once again. ive said it before, lower the alch value of these items across the board and update invention tables. that easily stop the gp flowing in and soaks up materials to prevent them from becoming gp. seems like such an easier and more well balanced idea than super nerfing a few hand picked bosses.

at this point, i dont think they are doing this nerf in good faith of the game. The math doesnt add up, this does not feel like the right thing when other options to farm gold exist already. They dont want to discuss those, instead say thats a later on down the road thing, just like they say we had a mtx update coming and well... you see how that ended up. Then they claim its a different team and they cant control that. seems like some leadership issues at jagex need sorted out. Where is the CEO on this? Why is he so quiet? At the end of the day, nothing should be pushed out with out his approval first, so lets hear from the big man himself.

[fresh turret]

I think its probably better to move on from saying the data is wrong at all instances.

[reef socket]

Sounds reasonable

The crushed nests need nerfing lol

[fringe relic]

I see in a recent news post that Jagex released updated information on gold sources. Is there updated information on how gold leaves the game?

And for the latter, can we get the same information on chronotes?

[reef socket]

I wish

[last topaz]

I know I've said it before, but at least replace Rasial's momento drops with something else. You cannot use momentos if you are fighting him.

[reef socket]

Especially if no ge access

[slender charm]

F

Glacor op they say

They should nerf anything normal mode, but hard mode hmm

[slender charm]

Hi mod breezy can we get a token exchange, for all the mtx tokens, as you guys rerun them 24/7 we end up with more tokens than players, would be great to trade them in for other tokens or some kind of token oddment that can be used to buy other tokens or something -

Sirenic scales are extremely farmable via ascension dungeon and by killing legions as is

And crazy how they aren’t really in line with malevolent or tectonic

[reef socket]

F

[slender charm]

This is a common theme

[reef socket]

😃

[vague locust]

after reading jagex annual report and financial statement: this update directly goes against what they say. As a company that needs to make money, this update doesnt seem retain paying members or bring paying members into the game. This update doesnt make people want to buy more membership or add membership to additional accounts. Maybe its time for a survey asking if this update will make you want to spend more or less money on the game? surely you wouldnt mislead investors in your statements by saying "we listen to our community". Who do we need to speak to about getting a survey out asking if this update makes us want to spend money or not? Do we email the owners of jagex? surely they have a linkedin. im sure they would love to see the push back this post and reddit has generated.

[soft acorn]

is the update live ?

[little reef]

It's not going to be live until at least July

[peak stratus]

Ahh yes blame everything on hard working players and not mtx smh

[covert igloo]

this omg so much this

its the most useless drop in the game

by far

[reef socket]

I am already feeling the damage

[lethal tide]

They're buffing unique rate overall by 50% and core rate by a little bit more (little bit less for book & artefact)

[slender charm]

Uniques will go down in price, the normal drops that aren’t unique cover supplies and deaths etc

[little reef]

The price of commons will go up, as well

so you'll be making around the same profit/hr at most places

and your death costs will be no harder to cover

[reef socket]

Can go to more profitable bosses if it becomes a problem

[slender charm]

Not by any material amount and people will have to farm harder for gp

[slender charm]

Alot of effort and kills for a 600m drop

[reef socket]

I’m already down 20b ll

I don’t feel like arguing against my own interests any further

[nocturne tangle]

yeah I don't think most commons will go up much in price here because the commons being hit most are already held up substantially above their 'true' price by the existence of an alch floor

this applies even to stuff like crystal keys, where much of the value comes from alchs

on the whole it doesn't mean that this is bad

quite a lot has simply been rendered too easy by these drop tables

[reef socket]

I expect people will move on to other bosses once camping it isn’t worth it for them

[west narwhal]

nerf hasn't even happened yet?

anything dropping now would be rares due to upcoming buffs, not nerfs (and from what I've seen it's mostly the dark onyx core)

if you're losing 20b from that that just tells me you're a mercher, in which case balance updates are absolutely part of the risk profile

[reef socket]

The fear/rage already hit lol

[west narwhal]

hit...what exactly?

commons prices would increase

maybe there's a couple of ppl farming stuff before nerf, but in which case holding the items longer would get you profit

[obsidian flare]

the price of a lot of t95 weapons went down

[west narwhal]

in that case you're losing money to buffs

feel free to argue that they shouldn't buff the rare rates, only nerf

[obsidian flare]

I think some of the buffs are great like the core from arch-glacor. People completing their log faster means less salvages from that boss. However the buffs won't increase profit because that is more complex and depends on supply and demand.

[west narwhal]

the buffs weren't really intended to increase profit

it's not a stated goal. more likely it's to alleviate the grind for log hunters/ironmen

as you said, hard to predict how those affect profit rates cause of the supply demand thing

[reef socket]

The only t95’s I have are my level 20 necromancer mh/oh lol

[reef socket]

My hats lol

[west narwhal]

just wait a year you'll get 30b value back

[reef socket]

The silly thing is I actually support the AG common nerfs. The zammy nerfs may be reasonable too, but I don’t really go there so I don’t know. I am good at arguing against my own interests

[fleet drum]

I feel like I'm the opposite of everyone with this boss. 2 accs now I do this boss and no matter what I get everything but the scripture. I'm hoping changes do something to make me hate this boss less. Never gotten 1 on any account and we could use it for our gim team 😂
But do we know when the changes go into effect kinda looking forward to it but can't find a solid date