Add enemy collision

[wanton kayak]

the "ur just mad lil bro" argument doesn't work in suggestion threads

literally like never come here again

[winter moat]

neither does ingoring the fact that i said way more than that bcos u are actually mad and insulting me rather than actually backing ur point

[serene tundra]

such proof much wow

[wanton kayak]

Dude aren't you the same guy that said exo should be removed?

[winter moat]

holy based

[wanton kayak]

yeah thank you for showing the exact type of player you are lil dude

[winter moat]

hahahahaha its so easy to bait u

[copper fjord]

why is there 20 players close enough to all get c4'd by one guy though

[serene tundra]

arent you the dumbass thats mad that bullets deal damage

[winter moat]

why are u this mad bcos i asked u to back ur point up when ur literally advocating making a significant chunk of the remaining playerbase quit bcos u dont like their playstyle?

[wanton kayak]

yeah me trying to actually have a good discussion and then you baiting me into a shit argument was so based and cool

[serene tundra]

how do you have a discussion with someones who mad about being shot in an fps 😭

[winter moat]

mate i tried to have a real discussion with u, u said "people clipping plays they make is proof that theyre the ones killing the game" and insulted me like 5 times

how delusional can u possibly be?

[wanton kayak]

me calling your bullshit out isn't being "mad"

[winter moat]

wheres my bullshit? asking u for a source on how someone getting a big suicide C4 multikill is why we went from 80k+ players to sub 6k peak?

[wanton kayak]

people like you should be banned from suggestion threads for poisoning the water

[edgy locust]

can you?

[winter moat]

are u capable of talking about ur claims or are u just going to keep insulting me?

[winter moat]

can i what?

[quaint tendon]

Literally this

People don't spread out enough in this game, y'all clump up mid map to revive spam and die

[wanton kayak]

which is why collision should be added

[rain hare]

No

[edgy locust]

i'm just going to ignore the troll

[wanton kayak]

you shouldn't be able to go through clumps of people

[quaint tendon]

It doesn't fix anything related to that

[rain hare]

No, you should

[wanton kayak]

thats literally my point

[serene tundra]

i dont clip through people

i clip through corpses

[winter moat]

oh so ur going to involve urself and then call me a troll for saying something reasonable? nice

[serene tundra]

cough cough your gun has range

[rain hare]

Stop spreading false opinions

[serene tundra]

amazing isnt it

[wanton kayak]

okay lil dudes imma head out

[rain hare]

Didn’t ask

[quaint tendon]

You would still get C4'd lol, all they'd have to do is run past you and left click

bro...

[wanton kayak]

ya'll can keep baiting and acting like literally childern

[winter moat]

lmao yeah pls go if ur unwilling to actually have a conversation

[edgy locust]

its not false, its still an opinion

[wanton kayak]

literal*

[rain hare]

🗿

[serene tundra]

ok mf thats mad about getting shot in an fps 😭

[copper fjord]

mfw need to try and change game for people incapable of looking around them or pressing m

[edgy locust]

again, soft collision.

[quaint tendon]

Actually lol, it makes me think hitting M is a hidden skill or something

[copper fjord]

to be fair the amount of people ive seen asking about to how to crouch or sum in game chat this doesnt suprise me anymorr

[quaint tendon]

I hope the new UI for the squad stuff shows contested flags for literally this reason

[edgy locust]

the answer does not have to be 1 or 0, it can be anywhere inbetween!

or like have the hard collision hitbox in the center of the character. Now its not as easy as running through a whole group, but rather, you should be able to dodge full contact, and any contact would simply slow you down, or knock the opponent over.

[pallid stream]

Let me point out to y'all that the vote reacts at the top are 2 to 1 for adding collision. I think Oki might pay more attention to that than this discussion.

[edgy locust]

Collision as a whole, not the individual ideas inbetween

thats why the OP should probably specify what soft and hard collision is

you can appease both crowds with a simple change

[serene tundra]

💀

[mighty lantern]

Tarkov has extreme amount of inertia.
Battlefields, CS, Titanfall, Team Fortress 2 and more have inertia to prevent instant turns with no momentum loss. Which is what the inertia suggestion wants instead of heavy mil sim inertia.

[serene tundra]

bf4 and cs 😭

[mighty lantern]

Yeah, neither of those games allow for instant turns with 0 momentum loss

[serene tundra]

you can in bf4 you fuck

and cs seriously

[mighty lantern]

You still experience momentum loss when doing instant 189 turns

[serene tundra]

you dont but ok

[mighty lantern]

#1170730270492721253 message

[serene tundra]

wow man turns in air with no momentum loss

💀

[soft forge]

idk about bf but in cs you do

even when air strafing

[serene tundra]

yea but its cs like bruh

game basically designed around inertia has inertia

wow

[soft forge]

yeah but every other game has it bucko… get with the times

[serene tundra]

im just gonna point at ow

[quaint tendon]

I think BF4 had it, but you got so much velocity off majority of the tech it didn't matter

It was basically non-existent if you weren't just bhopping

Actually think the game had some weird system of vertical inertia only

Hence why you could send yourself across the map most times with C4 launching

Or maybe it was just DICE being DICE and making broken shit

Anyone's guess really

[quasi jetty]

That’s literally what a complaint / suggestion is for a game

Asking for the game to be changed so it’s more fun

That’s just a really funny argument to use against someone

[soft forge]

There's a subtle yet important distinction. Asking for the game to be changed isnt inherently bad, but asking for the game to be changed to try and make other's play how you want them to is. Most of these suggestions seem more like the latter than the former.

[fading cipher]

Hope community servers can turn this off, cause it's a horrible idea!

[quasi jetty]

Well, that’s what any change does

What distinguishes a change that does and doesn’t? They’ll always change how people interact with the game

[fading cipher]

Only reason why this doesn't have 300 downvotes is because half of the movement players couldn't be asked to read official discord.

[wanton kayak]

honestly I'm pretty sure the votes ratio would still be the same

adding collision for enemies just make sense

why should you be able to go through your enemy?

[fading cipher]

No, I'm in discord with 100+ people who hate this change and maybe 2 people voted

[wanton kayak]

thats your discord

you stated game

[fading cipher]

Robocat's discord

[wanton kayak]

okay?

[bold ermine]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-gif-10374658

[wanton kayak]

why is Robocat's discord so special?

[fading cipher]

So when I run almost anywhere in the game I don't have my path blocked by an enemy. I run and heal\bandage and this would prevent me from moving around as much.

[fading cipher]

What do you mean, it isn't special? It's a streamers discord.

[mellow solstice]

yes getting stuck on players would add for a great gaming experience

i cant wait

[wanton kayak]

why should you be able to run around and heal and have no consequences to that action of then suddenly running into an enemy?

Your arguement just doesn't make sense from a military gameplay standpoint

[fading cipher]

I should run around and heal because this has been in the base game for years. I bought this game so I could enjoy the movement.

[mellow solstice]

military fr fr

[wanton kayak]

I don't really care if its a streamer

he/her*

[fading cipher]

I don't understand why even ask about it when the result is you don't care

[wanton kayak]

she or he**

[fading cipher]

Get back on topic please

[wanton kayak]

Dude why should anyone let a youtuber and or streamer decide a fate of a game

[fading cipher]

Nobody said that

[wanton kayak]

just cause someone got followers and can easily change their opinion due to a position doesn't mean they have the best ideas in mind

then why did you bring up "Robocat's" discord

[fading cipher]

You asked.

[wanton kayak]

Yes and I'm saying its not special

[fading cipher]

Okay? I'm agreeing with you? It's a streamers discord.

[wanton kayak]

Okay anyways yes back to topic

[fading cipher]

LMFAO

[wanton kayak]

why would this suggestion have more downvotes

like whats the popular appeal to not adding enemy collision?

[fading cipher]

So I don't have the game stopping me unexpectedly when I'm running around in it.

Ruins the momentum of the game

[wanton kayak]

^

[mellow solstice]

maybe because its just fun?

[bold ermine]

I can also see how people can exploit it on certain chokepoints with riot shield like the waki underbridge

[wanton kayak]

fun for yourself?

[bold ermine]

or sidebridges

[mellow solstice]

how is not fun for everyone

like what are you even doing in the game

camp windows?

[wanton kayak]

its not fun against the people you abuse it against

[mellow solstice]

prone in corners holding angels?

hide in bush?

[fading cipher]

Running around in the game is enjoyable for me and many others. Nobody is abusing anything.

[mellow solstice]

"abuse"

holy fuck

[wanton kayak]

why should you just run into an area where people have set up cover and everything and run through that frontline they spent so much time setting up

[fading cipher]

Abusing is meant for bugs, this is a core mechanic in the game

[mellow solstice]

i dont remember last time ive seen community this special

from hackusating good players to crying for nerfs on everything

[wanton kayak]

this is why people like collision

your playstyle isn't the most popular thing in game

its actually a minority

[fading cipher]

You can prevent that by using the in game building feature. That's been in the game since launch.

[bold ermine]

ok what about this

they could easily exploit this

[fading cipher]

Then why nerf it, if it happens to you like once in your whatever how many hours.

[wanton kayak]

but as I just said you can go through the people

[fading cipher]

That's fine I don't see the problem

[wanton kayak]

I've seen in game where someone with a spegy speed loadout just goes through everyone with a suicide vest

yeah thats where you lose

majority of the playerbase doesn't like that

[fading cipher]

Ok? It's happened to me too? I don't complain about it.

[wanton kayak]

thats why you won't win in down or up votes

and the majority has complained about it

[fading cipher]

Ya probably because they don't do anything to stop it from happening.

I move around so I don't get Targeted by things like suicide c4 'movment spazzes'

[wanton kayak]

which yet again the majority of the playerbase plays your way of running around all the time

[fading cipher]

Why shouldn't it be in the game

[wanton kayak]

doesn't*

[wanton kayak]

Dude I've already explained enough bullet points for you to at least understand somewhat of where I'm coming from

[mellow solstice]

so they should just keep making changes if majority wants them

that sounds great

surely its gonna end up a banger game

because community is so smart

[wanton kayak]

I'm done answering the "why should this be removed" "why man just why" question

[fading cipher]

The less arcade this game gets the more it narrows down the player base.

Name a full mil sim that's more popular than cod.

[dusky hinge]

^ adding enemy collision would slow the pace of the game dramatically there would be much less aggression and more passive play, literally murdering the fun out of the game

[bold ermine]

@fading cipher dms

[fading cipher]

Majority of people who play games in general want it to be arcade.

If you're adding collision I want it to at least have faster move speed, and faster vaulting.

[wanton kayak]

its almost like we an assault class for that

have*

[quaint tendon]

As someone who mains that class, it's literally not even that fast of a class compared to medic

And I doubt it's changing at this rate

[bold ermine]

Light engi fastest

with 3 rpgs and trophies

quake fr fr

[quaint tendon]

Engi
Medic
Recon
Assault
Support

That's the general order of speed for the classes

And recon is only faster if you don't use ranger

[bold ermine]

Assault has light gear no ?

[quaint tendon]

Yeah but I'm pretty sure there's some hidden movement garbage in the game related to the classes base movement speed

By all rights Medic should be slower than Assault, but it's not that way in actual practice.

[bold ermine]

why does it have to be slower

[bold ermine]

placebo really unless someone proved it ?

[quaint tendon]

It's in some old ass thread, but I def noticed the other day going between the two with the lightest stuff they could run that assault and medic's move speed differ wildly

Replied to wrong comment, but yeah

Again, it COULD literally just be SMGs but I think even if they both ran P90's they wouldn't compare.

[stoic mason]

Milsim turds got to have the worst takes

[wanton kayak]

oh shit

we got people conducting pys ops to split the community even more now

calling people who like the milsim part of the game tards

:soyface:

[azure lodge]

silly little idea, how about we don't add collision

thanks for listening

[stoic mason]

People who just want to have fun in the game dont want inertia, collision and a billion nerfs to a class, dont want to sit behind a sandbad spamming m1 like a glue sniffer

[wanton kayak]

chill little dude

you can always play apex or CoD

[azure lodge]

or milsimmers can go play squad or other games how about that instead of forcing their narrative down every games throat to make it pleasing for them

[wanton kayak]

1 blocked message

[quaint tendon]

Or you can just play the milsim mode when it drops which will probably have collision anyways?

[wanton kayak]

🙂

[quaint tendon]

LMAO, beyond childish

[wanton kayak]

nah

[dusky hinge]

@wanton kayak just play arma or if you really want the game like that, make ur own server

[wanton kayak]

i want collision now!!

[wanton kayak]

sorry im not into playing with gamer dads

[dusky hinge]

And yet you're proposing the most gamer dad changes to the game possible?

If u can't turn because someone goes through you, you aren't paying attention Simple as that

[wanton kayak]

dude when and where did wanting collision in a milsim like game start being a gamer dad thing

[bold ermine]

tbh joelus, in no way I mean it as an offense when I say this. I agree I was extremely rude with my previous talk with you but you seemed to be on the edge from the get go too. You implied that since I dont play support ( which I do btw ) I shouldn't have an opinion. I don't agree with the latter.

[wanton kayak]

Well, I was on edge cause the past few people who I talked with prior to you literally talked and acted the same way you did

and not only that when I actually tested if they knew anything about support I found out they didn't play or play it that often

[bold ermine]

👀 well sorry that happened

[quaint tendon]

Heaven forbid someone has a different point of view with the same playstyle

[wanton kayak]

well hold on pal

[quaint tendon]

Or plays the same class differently

[wanton kayak]

seems like you're stuffing words into my mouth

[dusky hinge]

I've done my fair share of support and minecrafting all over the map but still

[quaint tendon]

I'm just saying, discounting someones experience because of a lack of time on that class is wild.

[wanton kayak]

Well yes and no

[quaint tendon]

"Lack" not "none" btw

Like I have played like 2 hours of support and still think its one of the stronger classes with exo if you have good map knowledge and angle awareness

[wanton kayak]

cause people all the sudden right after the loadout change announcements in #dev-wip everyone started talking smack about Support and acted like Exo is some armour you can easily put on and have no downsides to

me and a few others had to talk a bit of sense into them by saying no playing support with exo isn't that OP as you think it is

[stoic mason]

It is very strong on par with smg medics and Assault dmrs

[wanton kayak]

If you're talking about a class and want HUGE changes to it

I actually do want to know if you have at least played it

[bold ermine]

But then that would mean I can't comment on engi rpg spam or some similar issue with other classes

[dusky yoke]

Untrue
About exo
Kinda true about map knowledge
Full exo is not that great and doesnt offer the protection you will need considering you are about being prone or taking cover 90% of the time, the armour wont help at all unless you are qith your back to the enemy with is a bad position to begin with(removing how you can by pass it when shooting your arms and legs)

Map knowledge is something for every class
Every class can just be holding a angle and do just aswell as support, it isnt a support only thing, other is that many maps are difficult for support in general
Namak is the one i can think of that is support sided alot

Just to clarify that is the one on your torso

The helmet one is Actually good

Kinds dont matter when you can like
Shoot the arms?
Aswell that you will be behind cover anyways
You wont get hit there almost at all

[quasi jetty]

most enemies are not good at targeting limbs, most don't even try
since the average player here is significantly better than the average player in game, we have to remember we are being shot at by mostly noobs.

If we were the ones firing then exo protects less than when we're the ones getting hit, because the "us" and "them" are different

[dusky yoke]

Not even that
Is simply that your arms are exposed and close to your head when prone or using bipod
You are basically using just the protection of your helmet

[quasi jetty]

now that is also a hallmark of the early stages of genocide but that's fine given it's a game about killing

[dusky yoke]

True and real
And like what that makes you be any different at being hard to kill

[quasi jetty]

so is your torso when not prone. Even with a pretty low torso hit rate it's significant

[dusky yoke]

Outside of exo helmet

You basically are using a bad armour with is exo
Unironically have armiur is way beter to use than exo in almost everyway

Just because of that speed penalty

[quasi jetty]

if you are standing up, this is a rough representation of how much ttk-extension your armour gives you with an exo helmet and each chestplate (empty -> exo)

you will not always be lying down

yes, a perfect set of values are impossible to source

[dusky yoke]

You are talking about a class that has all of that and is considered bad in the game specially when they had the closest to a fal weapon before yet no one was flocking chat saying support was op or you would see more than 4 supports in the entire game

[quasi jetty]

these ones assume 50% limb shots, 32.9% body shots and 17.1% headshots. Even with low body shot hit rate it matters a fair bit as this demonstrates

[wanton kayak]

Depressed either very obtused or just baiting at this point

I've explained the whole Support exo thing like 2 or more times and it seems like he still doesn't get it

[quasi jetty]

that doesn't really tell you how much actual impact they'll have in game, or how they work together (armour pieces are not independant)

[quasi jetty]

which is why I posted that, which is a direct approximation of what was stated

and now I have given into the urge to just dump the grids here for reference :D

where does such a thing exist?

that doesn't tell you the ttk extension you'll get from armour

nor does it allow for easy comparison between combinations of armour pieces

that's what I did

to get those numbers

That's... the only way to get useful numbers for that

[wanton kayak]

Solar, hes making you dig a hole

[quasi jetty]

it isn't listed there but distance is point blank, no damage dropoff

[dusky yoke]

Hole and dig????

Rock and stone

[wanton kayak]

dig diggy hole

[quasi jetty]

the hit rate distribution is the only thing that actually matters to this data

since this is armour data rather than gun data

it is accurate according to the main assumption of 50% limb shots, 32.9% body shots and 17.1% headshots.

every possible hit combination of every gun is tested and weighted by how likely it is to occur according to the assumptions

[weary cloud]

the best to know the actual situation is just wait for the update and try in field, easy

[quasi jetty]

since I did it with a brute force algorithm rather than something neater it takes like 20 seconds to run for all armour combos :p

[weary cloud]

no need so much argument, just try and conclude

ok, end

[quasi jetty]

that doesn't give you anything of use, really

we are not precise enough to do that

[weary cloud]

you are just like saying the actual combat is not accurate as you try in lab

[quasi jetty]

the combat is. But we can't precisely measure that

we kinda just guess based on vague memories

which is very prone to several biases

[dusky yoke]

Literally

[quasi jetty]

if we played with every setup for the same amount of time, and recorded our kills and deaths, and corrected for the trend of our own skill over time then that would work

but that's a huge amount of effort. Nobody wants to do that. Only the devs could set that up effectively

[slim basalt]

excel is stupid

[mighty lantern]

False, it is pretty handy

[slim basalt]

nah i just wanna make some stupid controversy

[fading cipher]

excel is one of the greatest programs to ever exist and rivals things like CAD in its usefulness.

[icy magnet]

I'll just put my 2 cents into this having collision might be a 50/50 for me cause 1 it would encourage flanking if the enemy controls a tunnel system but on the other hand it would prevent moments where a handful of guys can breakthrough when there is a group push and attack them from behind (I know 1 offers a longer way to tackle a stalemate while the other is a quick and risky way to tackle it).

[quaint tendon]

Im biased against excel because my job uses it to throw shitty lists at our my team to go fix fiber connections and it makes me want to go rock diving.

Black friday week was pretty much me glaring at excel sheets and connection metrics 12 hours a day

[quasi jetty]

yep. That goes with the general community consensus as far as I can tell

Since limbs cover half the chest when facing someone head on

and the entire lower body

looks something like this

(that is with exo as well, regular chestplates are skinnier)

[stoic mason]

Once people are done when medic gets nerfed hard people for sure are going for exo

Not fun to play against it

[gilded spindle]

more fun for them, not others

[quasi jetty]

...that is always how suggestions work

it is what the person making the suggestion thinks would be fun

[gilded spindle]

without considering how it will be negative to others

[quasi jetty]

so your point was just that you think they were inconsiderate?

Disagree on that, they were trying to find a solution that wouldn't interrupt normal gameplay

[gilded spindle]

so sad how thoughtless the world has become

[quasi jetty]

you might just be the last beacon of morality in this cruel world, mr mime.

[gilded spindle]

Justly so

[dusky yoke]

now imagine that when going prone or if you build a barricade that basically just leaves your head and arms exposed and covers half of your body just leaving this glimpse of armour while your arms covers it

the majority of hate towards exo would be really justified if you had armour in your arms aswell, would unironically make exo really fucking strong because of it

[dull meadow]

ah yes i cant wait to turn a doorway in 127 v 127 and hit another player

[dusky yoke]

''im sorry that was mean, you can pass first''
''thank you kind gentleman''
gets shot by the enemy team on the other side

[dull meadow]

thats actually good player interaction IMO

[serene tundra]

Dont forget when they look slightly upwards and now you just hit arm instead of head

Man yk its bad when even gacha players dont want collision

[dusky yoke]

LMAO

[quaint tendon]

[kind badger]

That's why i've suggested soft collision wuite a bit yesterday. Enemies should be capable of passing eachother, but not without resistance imo

It should be difficult to get your camera to clip through another player making them effectively invisible. However I don't wanna start getting stuck on players either. Soft collision when tweaked should minimize both.

Like I feel like two players running past eachother would effectively pass thru eachother no problem. but if one is standing still / not sprinting and the other sprints trying to clip thru, they would wrap around them instead essentially. someone used minecraft as a reference yesterday and I think something with a similar feel would be best all-around

[quasi jetty]

Oh yeah, that’s not a bad example

[dusky yoke]

has potential to work aswell

[kind badger]

As said before, it would remove the big issue of no collision imo (people clipping into you) and still allow movement. Prevent wacky stuff like that one clip from the other day... i gotta find it

the clip this fella left

[edgy locust]

I feel like, for added effect, you should be able to charge at a person and knock them into the prone position.

[kind badger]

Most people seem to be very adamant on liking the back and forth that comes with running past people. It's not my cup of tea personally but I think thats what most people are expecting at this point tbh

Maybe depending on armor you can get staggered/slowed, with heavier armor staggering more

I'd definitely stay away from knockdown just because it sounds like itd be super jarring in a shooter, to be aiming at someone in CQC and suddenly you're shooting the floor

[gilded spindle]

no thats dumb

[edgy locust]

#1175587321916182599 message

Your words, not mine.

Dumb ideas are still ideas.

[gilded spindle]

i never said your opinion was wrong

i said it was a dumb idea

knocking an enemy into prone is actually WORSE for you

they will become harder to shoot

its called drop shotting and people already do this

[edgy locust]

its reverse drop-shotting

[serene tundra]

Dropshot is dropshot

[edgy locust]

tackling is drop-shotting?

[gilded spindle]

if it forces them to prone then yes

[edgy locust]

forces the enemy to prone.

[gilded spindle]

and then as they go prone they shoot you while they will be harder to shoot because they are in motion going down

aka drop shotting

[edgy locust]

you're acting as if they'd be facing you when they go down.

[gilded spindle]

you never specified what position they would be facing

[edgy locust]

i assumed competence

i was wrong

[gilded spindle]

thats not competence at all

how would I assume you would charge them from the back when one of the main talking points of enemy collision is doorway blocking

and why would someone try to do the crazy jump shit through you if they are behind you and can just shoot you in the back?

[edgy locust]

why? people run around with suicide vests

they can't shoot you holding the trigger

[gilded spindle]

so then they would just blow you up?

[edgy locust]

so you want to be the big, singular fish?

[gilded spindle]

???

[edgy locust]

they go after groups, one dude is not enough for 1 c4

[gilded spindle]

i get people doing that all the time

1 dude just running into me and me alone

[edgy locust]

its a shame where the world has gone

i'm just saying it'd be a le funnie mechanic if we could go tacking people down from behind, impeding the enemy from advancing, even if it is for a few seconds as a distraction.

hell, give assault class a buckle shield so they have this ability.

[serene tundra]

[agile zealot]

It's a silly idea that might be a fun flag for community servers, but I don't see it being that enjoyable in standard play

[pallid stream]

Somebody's first reaction when coming around the corner and seeing someone else should not be "run through them"

[gilded spindle]

in battlebit it should

[agile zealot]

Nah, it's cheap and un-fun

[gilded spindle]

un-fun for those not skilled enough to counter it

[tropic hatch]

I think it's more of a discussion of if it's healthy for the game rather than it being a skill issue or not

[agile zealot]

You mean topping out mouse sensitivity and using a high RPM weapon?

[soft forge]

Whether its a skill issue is relevant to whether its healthy for the game. If its something that you can reasonably expect a player to adapt to, it shouldnt be changed.

[tropic hatch]

Well, IMO if it's something unhealthy for the game then you shouldn't expect anyone to adapt to it

even if they can

because it wouldn't have to be there in the first place

[agile zealot]

This is the conundrum, the gap between people who play semi-casually and those that listen to "Mint Tea" (feat. La Caution & 2MEX) by Radioinactive while they play.

[tropic hatch]

LMAO that is oddly specific

[agile zealot]

Google it and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about

[copper fjord]

[winter moat]

call me crazy but i dont think turning 180 degrees is that high of an expectation

[agile zealot]

Instantly and rapidly? Kinda is a little

[winter moat]

disagree, its not like people are teleporting through u in a millisecond, u see them the whole way, its no different from tracking people in any other situation functionally

[agile zealot]

They are tho

[winter moat]

they are what?

[bold ermine]

I can see it being exploited on chokepoints like waki side or underbridges, alleys in urban maps etc etc.

[agile zealot]

Teleporting through in a millisecond, also there's a delta to tracking between speed and distance. I challenge anyone to have perfect tracking when someone zips through them.

[winter moat]

are u seriously trying to make the claim that people can run say 5m in a millisecond in bbr?

[agile zealot]

Also, it's goofy. Also, it enables "C4 fairy" gameplay which is honestly horrible.

[agile zealot]

if the scenario you're talking about is running straight into someone, then yea they'll die before they reach you, but that isn't where this happens.

This happens when a medic zips around a corner and through you, or through a doorway and through you. There's tons of sweaty YouTube vids of people doing this specifically.

[winter moat]

i was talking about what ur claiming is "where it happens", but either way the actual movespeed of the player running through u doesnt change, they are still not teleporting from infront of u to behind u in one frame with no possibility for u to track them

as i said initially, u see them the whole way, if u cant simply turn round its either a low sens issue which is ur own choice, or a reaction speed/skill issue which we should not be nerfing a playstyle to cover for some players having

[agile zealot]

You know there's something called reaction time right?

[winter moat]

????? did u read my message?

"a reaction speed/skill issue which we should not be nerfing a playstyle to cover for some players having
"

[agile zealot]

Oh yea I see, you put it with skill issue

[spiral plover]

So I shall be blunt here

What skill level is the game being balanced around?

Are we going the hyper comp or more towards the casual end?

are we going to balance for the best of the best or etc?

[winter moat]

it should be balanced around people who are reasonably competent, not top 1% players, but not catering to bottom 25% ish either

[spiral plover]

So who is the bottom 25%?

we need to start with that

[winter moat]

??? the worst 25% of players......

[spiral plover]

what is the 26% to 50% range

etc

To clarify I meant skill sets wise

[winter moat]

do u want me to list names or something? stat spreads? im giving vague ballpark numbers

[agile zealot]

Real question: What specific playstyle does adding Enemy Collision inhibit?

[wanton kayak]

That's literally impossible what?

[spiral plover]

For the average player, not any to my knowledge

[quasi jetty]

the playstyle where you clip your camera inside the opponent's mind and read their thoughts

[winter moat]

my guy u urself literally said no collision enables "C4 fairy playstyle" lol

[agile zealot]

What playstyle or tactics specifically exploit the lack of enemy collision as an advantage?

[wanton kayak]

Oh gosh... "c4 speedy speg tactic doesn't exist!!!"

[agile zealot]

Sorry, this was an open question, not rehetorical

[spiral plover]

High speed aggression, C4 Fairies & generally just using enemy as cover

[winter moat]

okay im ignoring u, how u gonna say it enables a playstyle and then 2 minutes later be acting like adding collision doesnt hurt any playstyles

[spiral plover]

any more?

[agile zealot]

No that's not me being butthurt, I'm asking honestly

[spiral plover]

I am just saying first things I can think of on that last one

[agile zealot]

I want to know what others think it enables

[quaint garnet]

can't hold a conversation ig

[wanton kayak]

Rat has bait level arguments at most. He always tries to get you to his level.

[winter moat]

yes i wonder what playstyles u clearly know it would impact hmmmm

[agile zealot]

Ok you're actually a child

[winter moat]

oh ur back crying bcos i asked u questions like a day and a half ago and u just started insulting me, yay

[wanton kayak]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/799676680071020555/1162558278497218711/232D1A3D-3DBA-46D1-9EF8-D4BC8991E7BD.gif?ex=653c5fc4&is=6529eac4&hm=2714a51aecb5c31ba16ce8b4f1047609ee7657b8ad3d3a9e85a4b9b84529d776&

[winter moat]

???? how so, u urself said a playstyle that would be hurt by adding collision, why are u now acting like no playstyles would be hurt?

[wanton kayak]

"lol it was so easy to bait you" - rat

[winter moat]

yes way after u had started insulting me for trying to have a genuine discussion with u

and ur clearly still mad about it for some reason, it was what yesterday morning? get over it lmao

[agile zealot]

I'm not saying no playstyles would be hurt

I want to know. From you and others. Which playstyles you think would be impacted by this change.

[winter moat]

these ones that u didnt comment on

[bold ermine]

👀 yo, you just got timed out. Stay low @wanton kayak

[wanton kayak]

dude this rat guy should be timed out for ruining suggestion threads

[winter moat]

? im having a conversation and u butted in to insult me again, u did it yesterday as well

[agile zealot]

Ok let's chill a little

[wanton kayak]

I think we should start over yeah

Adding enemy collision would indeed hurt certain playstyles but these playstyles clearly hurt the flow of the game.

[agile zealot]

Honest question again, what playstyles do you think would be affected by adding player collision?

[wanton kayak]

Frontlines just don't exist when you get someone with a very fast loadout and a c4 vest just jump into a line of 20 people

[winter moat]

its been answered for u twice now

[quaint garnet]

more or less this tbh

would rather a proper flank over a gun running through people at top speed laying c4 on the ground

[agile zealot]

Was waiting for your answer, it was a question to everyone

[wanton kayak]

I think if we were to add enemy collision other classes would start being fun to play cause your effort isn't waste on these type of people^

wasted*

[quaint garnet]

you said playstyles other than what is listed but you haven't specified

[winter moat]

it would remove an element of skill expression beyond any actual specific playstyle too. no longer having the split second choice of "do i out react and ttk this guy from sprint or should i run through him to get the advantage?"

[quaint garnet]

just askin for your opinion honestly not ours

[agile zealot]

Ok lets not bash playstyles straight off otherwise it's just going to get into a pissing match

Any playstyle allowed by the mechanics of the game is viable

[winter moat]

i quoted the exact same message u did, why is that an acceptable response from u but not from me?

[spiral plover]

in some way this does equally remove a skill of "How best do I corner this guy" as a riot shield as a example

[quaint garnet]

ah so you agree'd my bad then

[winter moat]

riot shield should probably get collision added to it

[spiral plover]

ir equally removes some skill expression of positioning

[wanton kayak]

Yeah I mean its still not like you won't be able to still use the c4 vest in a strategic sense. I just think its too op without enemy collision

[spiral plover]

AKA why worry about a possiblity of being cornered in a tunnel both ways if I can simply rush through his buddy

[winter moat]

imo just standing in a doorway isnt a particularly skill intensive decision

[spiral plover]

well gave a example above of something that isn't a doorway

[frail stratus]

Solid collision would be horrible

[agile zealot]

Riot shields are kind of bad equipment to start, there's many ways to bypass them and they have limited advantages. I think enabling player collision would make riot shields actually viable as equipment.

[frail stratus]

Body blocking shouldnt be possible

[spiral plover]

we have plenty of tunnels in lonovo as a example

[winter moat]

and above all of this, im not even particularly against collision as a concept, im just against collision as it currently in the game for community servers

[spiral plover]

for teammates, agreed

[frail stratus]

Yeah the current collision is horrible

[wanton kayak]

I swaer I've only seen 5 people use riot shields in my 200+ hour time of playing

[spiral plover]

For enemies, it doesn't stop much, you just shoot the guy

or explode

[agile zealot]

Yea, it's not very good

[spiral plover]

or hit in the face with melee

[frail stratus]

If it got added people would complain and it would get removed 1 day later

[agile zealot]

You can literally run up to them and shoot through it

[quaint garnet]

still can't jump over tiny ledges right?

[frail stratus]

I don't think collision is the reason riot shield is bad

[winter moat]

it shouldnt be hard collision bcos that feels terrible, it should be soft collision where u kinda bounce off people. and it shouldnt be the entire player model as the hitbox for collision bcos its too big, it should be a smaller hitbox in the center of the model

[agile zealot]

Nope

[bold ermine]

They are also buggy af. The number of times I've emptied clips on a dude only to see his shield render after I die.

[wanton kayak]

how isn't it?

[frail stratus]

all the debuffs it gives

you get no offensive ability

super easy to just chuck c4 behind it

[wanton kayak]

yeah but theres no deffensive ability aswell due to no collision

[frail stratus]

It would still be dogshit if collision was added

[agile zealot]

The riot shield has other issues like not ignoring grenades, but the main issue I'd say is you can just bypass it so easily

[wanton kayak]

I think thats Yeti's main point about it

[agile zealot]

So, going back to the main point

[frail stratus]

Have you considered that maybe riot shield shouldn't be good cause it's a skill less tool

I agree it should be buffed

But not a ton

[wanton kayak]

C4 vest is a skill less tool aswell...

Bad take tbh

[frail stratus]

More skill then riot shield lol

[wanton kayak]

no, not really.

[spiral plover]

not exactly skilless per say

[agile zealot]

Disagree, the games not all about personal skill, Teamwork and coordination are the same if not more important

[spiral plover]

positioning becomes more important than aim with the shield

[versed silo]

mines, claymore, anti grenade trophies are skill less tools too

[bold ermine]

@fading wren would disagree 🤣

[agile zealot]

And riot shields are a tool that can facilitate that

[kind badger]

C4 vest is one of the easier methods to get mass kills tbh

[winter moat]

being capable of consitently getting good flanks off to make S-C4 worthwhile is far higher skill than riot shields will ever be

[agile zealot]

But anyway we're sliding, this is about collision

[spiral plover]

aka am I blocking my allies' fire? as one example

[kind badger]

Run into enemies -> die -> stonks

[wanton kayak]

Which is why I think Collision would help with both fixing riot shield and the C4 issue

[quasi jetty]

riot shields having actual wall-like enemy collision would make them way more fair, actually viable

[wanton kayak]

2 birds with 1 stone yeah?

[fading wren]

Oh yeah? Drop 100 kills on it and consistently get 70-90 a game🥱

[frail stratus]

I absolutely agree with that, it should be viable to use with teammates, but if its strong enough to use on your own it's problematic

[fading wren]

Not when it's hard capped at 490 damage (4 full health people)

[agile zealot]

I don't think riot shields by their very nature will ever be strong enough to use on their own, but that's a topic for another thread

[kind badger]

tbf collision is a big part of why it's so strong imo

[bold ermine]

💀 didn't ping you ego him. Just to defend the c4.

[spiral plover]

only case I see is when pushing up vs snipers possibly

[kind badger]

Running thru enemies is easy so any time enemies are cramped you can just run in vs having to position carefully

[wanton kayak]

Well, I mean, if we add enemy collision pushing points or moving the frontline would seem more fun? Those players who'll just push up and solo kill 15-20 people will need to push with the group/team.

[frail stratus]

the devs are gonna add hard collision then y'all are gonna whine and it's gonna get removed the next day

we have collision for community servers

[kind badger]

not relevant to skill level imo. Its still 4 kills in that case, with very little effort in a lot of circumstances

[winter moat]

is quick peaking a corner over and over really more interesting gameplay to either do or play against for u?

[fading wren]

It's too early for me to argue😭

[spiral plover]

So Mango, lets think of some different kinds of collison than, get some ideas flowing

[fading wren]

4 kills while 80% of the time there's more than 4 people shooting at you

[kind badger]

Mind you i think it has a place in terms of balance, but yeh

[frail stratus]

the kind that Minecraft java has tbh

where you can push people around but it's not solid enough to body block

[kind badger]

When you run in and explode, if doesnt matter. You wont have people recognize what happened until its too late.

thats literally the point

[frail stratus]

because body blocking is stupid idc what you say

[kind badger]

People are gonna have reaction time unless they're aimbottinf/ hacking.

You have time to run in.

[quaint garnet]

i wonder if people who are prone will have collision

[agile zealot]

So currently, enabling Enemy Collision would:

Make C4 run-by's much harder
Make quick runs past enemies more difficult
Encourage flanking
Make the Riot Shield possibly viable
Slow down building clearing due to body-blocking

[frail stratus]

hope not

hard collision would be so dog bro

[spiral plover]

Good question

[kind badger]

I don't see an issue with any of these except building clear... which is why I keep suggestinf soft collision

[quaint garnet]

just a small slow surely so you know you're stepping on a person

[spiral plover]

suppose it will 100% tell you if there is a enemy in the dead bodies faster

[frail stratus]

did you guys forget that the game is 254 players

[wanton kayak]

I mean I've kinda asked this question but like how does enemy collision not make sense in a game where theres 127 on each team? 127 and I can go through every single one of them? It just makes the game seem like the number doesn't matter

[frail stratus]

I'm sure collision won't fuck things up on small maps

Surely

[wanton kayak]

you shouldn't be able to go through a team of 5-10 people

[winter moat]

oh please try and run through 127 people at once in a game with regularly sub 200ms ttk lmao

[azure lodge]

c4 run bys will still be possible and not really that much harder, you just adjust the way you approach a stack and its still not difficult
riot shield wont become viable just because of collision
flanking already is a strong aspect in the game so it wont have any change on the flanking meta

[wanton kayak]

by adding enemy collision it'd make the 5-10 people seem like their effort of teamwork matters ^

[quasi jetty]

it doesn't have to prevent movement like a solid object. Just apply force to push you away from each other when you intersect with other players

[agile zealot]

In the case of running into people, the person running and expecting to encounter someone around the corner will almost always be at an advantage due to reaction time, the only difference would be that they have to shoot them in the face instead of running through and shooting them in the back

[quaint garnet]

hey if this change goes through and people pull it off then there's really not much else to say tbh

[quasi jetty]

that force can be very soft for players who aren't right on top of each other

[kind badger]

and again, soft collision allows both starts as long ad you don't brainlessly zipzag thru people or expliot lack of player collision in cqc

[spiral plover]

in a sense you do reduce the people shooting you by running through them due to a simple someone will be on the opposite of someone else

[winter moat]

the point is the current system is hard collision that stops u dead in ur tracks

[wanton kayak]

Exactly, the Q and E thing will be used more due to this change aswell

not just holding W and Shift towards your enemy

[kind badger]

If everyone is a death laser aimbot, yeah.

But theyre not

[frail stratus]

We all know that's how the devs are gonna implement it because we already have hard collision on community servers and the thread dorsnt specify

[azure lodge]

well you think that but they will come back into threads and suggestions and offer the next type of nerf cuz they still get killed by c4

[spiral plover]

hmm, we could make it treat enemy players like a rounded wall of sorts

[winter moat]

yes i already said this earlier as have many others

[spiral plover]

so not a dead stop per say but you'll kinda slide on them

[agile zealot]

It should definitely be hard collision IMHO, soft collision is silly. Running through someone who isn't dead just feels odd

[frail stratus]

Lmfao true

[kind badger]

we have the opportunity here to tell the devs what we prefer. That we would not like hard collision, and want othwr variations. Not to say they'd read thru well enough to see that... but still

[agile zealot]

That's what you prefer

[winter moat]

this is the answer, but i imagine theyll just ship the current system to official servers

[kind badger]

Can get the message across here if people are willing to discuss it more I feel like

[wanton kayak]

Yeah I was also about to make the point that we got barbwire in the game already, the soft collision is already there

[frail stratus]

they always trying to find some reason why they lost a 1v1

[agile zealot]

Slowly phasing through an enemy

[azure lodge]

the only reason the collision topic came into discussion on this discord is cuz people cant get themself to do a 180 turn when an enemy runs through you, its such a simple thing to do yet instead of playing they come here, complain and make a thread about it in the hopes of it being removed and once this isnt enoughn and they still die to something "stupid" in their eyes we will be back here in another thread

thats the issue with the majority of suggestions

[spiral plover]

I suppose we'll need to setup some names for sub types of hard & soft

[quaint garnet]

i lean towards hard, but yea just wonder how prone collision will work more than anything

[frail stratus]

inertia;

[agile zealot]

If it's so simple and so easy to counter then why is it so effective?

[spiral plover]

I feel a name for a soft type may be jelly (can phase through if enough force)

[agile zealot]

And don't say skill issue

[spiral plover]

maybe Jam would be better

[frail stratus]

Because the average player is dogshit

[winter moat]

it literally is tho, bad players are the ones massively struggling with this lmao

[kind badger]

Different skill levels are gon exist, yeh. And I get the frustration there. But imo the feature would be nice because its so hard to distinguish enemy from friend in hectic CQC sometimes, and having soft collisions would make you realize oh, that guy was actually solid, i should probably worry abt him

[wanton kayak]

"skill issue" is indeed a favorite to a lot of people.....

[kind badger]

Plus the issues before with people zigzagging and abusing lack of collision

[frail stratus]

Y'all are just trying to make the skill ceiling lower then my future

[winter moat]

every time a nerf is proposed to any movement tech its just bad players who think dying in an fps game feels bad and they somehow dont realise that movement shooter or not, they wont be able to compete with people much better than them

[agile zealot]

The person zipping through always has the advantage, because they expect to be zipping through someone so they're ready for it.

[frail stratus]

People lose fights cause their bad

[azure lodge]

well you gotta face it at some point like lets be real
there is a skill gap in this community, a MASSIVE skill gap between good and bad players

you see not a single good player complain or suggest any of these changes, bad players want to nerf so many things which directly lowers the skill ceiling so bad players look better

[frail stratus]

Add all of the movement you want I'll still shit on them

[agile zealot]

But, if you're so good at this game and have so much more skill than others, you should have no problem sprinting around a corner and just shooting them in the face?

So what's the issue?

[frail stratus]

why are you trying to fix a problem that isn't their

What is the issue exactly

[azure lodge]

the issue is bad players wanting to lower the skill ceiling to their level so that they can keep up with clearly mechanically better players

[winter moat]

this is so disingenuous lmao how can u seriously say this and think its a good response?

[wanton kayak]

okay rat, its not like people who make these type of suggestions are "bad" many people who are p3 and above lurk here so lets not make it a black and white issue please.

[winter moat]

wat

[azure lodge]

joe thinking just cuz you are p3 or higher means you are GOOD LMAO

[wanton kayak]

wat what

[agile zealot]

Because zipping through people and spinning around is brainless and low skill 🤷‍♂️

[wanton kayak]

^

[winter moat]

oh prestige, well if we're using prestiges as skill level im p6 so i still win

[azure lodge]

so even the bad players should be able to do it then no? if its low skill even the bad player should be able to do it but instead they lose almost every single encounter like that

makes you wonder if its really low skill

[wanton kayak]

okay rat you're doing it again, stop with trying to use personal attacks then when someone calls you out for it you twist the words

[winter moat]

why does it have to be removed then? simply shoot them first when theyre in sprint

[fading wren]

P3 and above doesn't make you good

[winter moat]

?????

[agile zealot]

They do 😉

[wanton kayak]

you keep baiting and it just doesn't seem like you'll change

[winter moat]

literally what?

[agile zealot]

If you can't tell the difference between a good and bad player then boy, I've got news for you

[quaint garnet]

in most cases if there's a person around the corner and they're close enough i think i'll just run right through them and make them guess where i'm at, it makes it easier than just outright shooting them no?

[frail stratus]

this entire thread is cope lol

[wanton kayak]

oh gosh

we got "cope"

now

[agile zealot]

This entire thread is seethe

[fading wren]

The entire server is cope

[frail stratus]

real

[wanton kayak]

aight the thread was going good for 10 minutes then runined by rat

by

e

[agile zealot]

Nooooo my crutches don't take them awaaaayy I can't waaaalk

[quaint garnet]

hard to get anywhere when it falls back on skill issue

[azure lodge]

when the fuck did i say that, im saying if zapping is so low skill why dont i see bad players doing it correctly or winning the gun fight when zapping through me or other good players?

[winter moat]

hahaha wow i really thought u had grown up but i guess ur back to just being mad at me for some reaon

[frail stratus]

he ruined the thread by having good points and argument??

disagreeing isn't allowed?

we can't have opinions

[agile zealot]

Bad players are still bad 🤷‍♂️

[frail stratus]

1984

[azure lodge]

you guys will be surprised once collision gets added and you guys still get owned all the time LOL whats the next thing you guys want nerfed then to your liking?

[wanton kayak]

calling people "bad" players just cause they want to suggestion balancing issues isn't really a good argument

lmao

[azure lodge]

well but its a low skill thing to do so why cant the bad players do it?

[winter moat]

me - "bad players are the ones suggesting movement tech nerfs"
joelus - "nuh uh some of them have prestiged 3 times, ur ruining the discussion"

[frail stratus]

drop reload is too strong! The new players can't hold R it's skill less and overpowered

[fading wren]

Because it is a skill issue

[wanton kayak]

no, no, like it or not those p3s aren't good

I haven't even met a p1 thats bad at the game

[agile zealot]

I think we should definitely have a sweat-focused game. Return wiggling, un-nerf SMGs, make it so bandaging doesn't heal

[winter moat]

i have met many

[azure lodge]

you cant tell me zapping is low-skill if low skilled players cant even do it, or do it properly like what

[frail stratus]

I've seen people on prestige 6 with a kd lower then 1 💀

[wanton kayak]

really bad luck then

[versed silo]

bad luck???

[fading wren]

Literally almost all of them are bad

[wanton kayak]

blah blah blahhhh

[quaint garnet]

crutches don't exist what do you mean

[azure lodge]

LMAOO BAD LUCK
for joe something as skill doesnt exist, no wonder skill issue is just a bad word for him
he thinks if someone is bad its just bad luck and some thats good is just good luck

[wanton kayak]

rat runied thread, thread is now just "skill issue skill issue"

wish mods would quality control these threads

[winter moat]

yep i ruined it and am the one not offering anything of substance

[agile zealot]

It's very hard to be truly bad at this game, at the same time it's very hard to be actually good because everything's kind of free

You really don't need to try hard to be a tryhard

[winter moat]

this is certainly a take

[azure lodge]

wiggling got nerfed - you guys still got owned
smgs got nerfed - you guys still got owned
bandage changes - you guys still got owned

have your changes all you want but they wont do anything about the actual skill difference in the game but oh no lets not mention skill issue cuz its forbidden to face reality

[agile zealot]

Dunno who the you guys is referring to, I don't get owned at all

I am un-owned

[azure lodge]

if its free we should see entire 127vs127 lobbies with above 2kd right?
if the game is so free why do so many people struggle with above 1kd

what kind of take is this

[wanton kayak]

yeah the wiggling thing getting nerfed made the game more fun if anything

[quaint garnet]

no healing on bandages on all other classes vs a class with what is infinite healing when the game released

mmmhm

[wanton kayak]

more bandage changes are coming aswell and it'll make the game a lot more fun

[tepid dagger]

Joe's the only one ruining this thread is you, you cannot hold a constructive argument to save your life. You said this guy is personally attacking you, when all he did was say ur bad in a round about way. Need I remind you, you just timed out for using adhominem attacks for reason? They should have banned you tbh, you are the least constructive person in this thread, actually in the whole server.

[azure lodge]

you have like not even 10% of the playerbase hitting 150+ kill games but yeah its so hard to tell when someone is a good player cuz its so FREE

[wanton kayak]

did you really just come in here to attack me?

blocked

[azure lodge]

LMAOOO

[winter moat]

oh the absolute irony of this hahahaha

[wanton kayak]

okay rats getting blocked too

[azure lodge]

3rd person he blocked cuz he cant take reality

4th*

[wanton kayak]

based discord feed

🙂

[winter moat]

he has literally joined in 3 conversations in the last day just to attack me personally, but sure its bad when other people tell him hes being dumb

[agile zealot]

You do understand that K/D is relative to the server right? For someone to get a kill someone else has to die. (Yes I know about assists but that's just 1 more person usually)

You literally cannot have an entire server with a positive K/D.

[azure lodge]

im talking about their kd in general that shows in the main menu not in the server in that moment
if the game is so free everyone in that lobby should have a total kd of above 2kd no?
but clearly you have baboons that sit on 0.x kd but the game is so free right

if the game is so free why do so many people straight up suck at the game

[agile zealot]

How on earth do you know? Do you check everyone's stats in a server? Because it sure as fuck doesn't display it

[winter moat]

are we really pretending theres nobody with a sub 1kd now?

[azure lodge]

i spectate someone for a second and you can see they have 2 left hands

[versed silo]

its impossible for everyone to have a kd above 2

[wanton kayak]

They also seem to forget that many people who are p1 and above might be on the blackhawk or littlebird transport piloting.

[agile zealot]

Did I say that?

Did I even imply it?

No.

[wanton kayak]

So I guess you'll most likely see a p3 or p6 with high score but no kills

[winter moat]

in a roundabout way yes, ur disagreeing with a message saying people have sub 1kds

[tepid dagger]

Stay in your little echo chamber. And just to chime in on this, it really is just a skill issue.

[azure lodge]

in a game thats soooo free, sub 1kd shouldnt be possible

[agile zealot]

That's how you took it, that's on you.

[winter moat]

so u do accept theres a large disparity in peoples kds, and that there is in fact a verifiable skill gap in the playerbase? bcos u have been saying otherwise

[wanton kayak]

the skill gap will be changing my guy.

[agile zealot]

But, the definition of skill that seems to be displayed is the "can move fast and twitch shoot", which isn't the only skill or even the mark of a skilled player.

[azure lodge]

moving fast alone doesnt give you kills? have you heard about the part of being able to use the mouse to aim and shoot?

ah yes cuz i move around i magically get kills added to my score thats true

[wanton kayak]

Dude what is this take?

[azure lodge]

awh you unblocked me, hello sweety

[agile zealot]

These takes are fucking weird NGL, I have no idea where these retorts are coming from

[azure lodge]

why you calling me retort now, thats not nice now is it

[winter moat]

from this

[wanton kayak]

Moving fast alone (lone wolfing in general) does get you a lot of kills due to a certain class thats being meta rn

[winter moat]

and this

[wanton kayak]

these all seem like gaslighting at this point

[versed silo]

why did player collision even move to a discussion about kd

[winter moat]

bcos i said bad players are the ones asking for movement tech nerfs and people stuck on it

[quaint garnet]

i mean sure, but you're really adamant on running through people and shooting them as opposed to just shooting them outright too

[wanton kayak]

rat brought up "bad players" making suggestions like these

[azure lodge]

just moving does not give you kills? you need proper positioning, game sens to figure out where people will be and actual aim cuz guess what, moving fast means you need to react quickly as well as aim quickly

[wanton kayak]

then it all went downhill from there

[tepid dagger]

I got a 112 and 7 game on engineer last night, your point is moot. You just want medics nerfed.

[azure lodge]

you are saying "It's very hard to be truly bad at this game, at the same time it's very hard to be actually good because everything's kind of free
You really don't need to try hard to be a tryhard"
and call me a retort after i give you the same logic back like what

[wanton kayak]

ermm, probably did a good job as engineer then?

other than that I just don't want medic to be able to do assault classes job like I've said countless times lmao

[azure lodge]

but the engi did an assault classes job in that moment too but thats fine then yeah?
but the second a medic does it ohno, NERF

[tepid dagger]

Yes running and gunning with and mp7 and spamming heat rockets. Definitely not in a tank cuz they are lame, and I play how I want, not how you want.

[wanton kayak]

yeah but that type of loadout is easy to kill if you're good enough

I've never had a problem with engi class

[agile zealot]

The top one was in reply to an arbitrary statement posted as fact, the second one wasn't an attack but an opinion on the current state of the game, which I stand by from playing shooters for the last ~20+ years.

[wanton kayak]

yet again maay, den, and rat you seem to just be trying to gaslight at this point

[tepid dagger]

Exactly, its not something inherent to medics, engi get light armor too, even no armor

[winter moat]

tf did i do?

[wanton kayak]

not actual arguments for the topic of this thread

[azure lodge]

yeah dont forget to block us and react with clown emotes cuz thats all you do once you realise that your arguments are useless cuz all you want is force a narrative on how to play classes down peoples throats

[wanton kayak]

anyways I got better things to do than to argue with people I have blocked for a reason. Good bye.

[winter moat]

lmao

[tepid dagger]

Finally

[azure lodge]

cuz when we try to argue that skill difference in this game is actually a thing that influences these wanted changes people tried to say that there isnt such thing as a skill difference cuz the game is so free that its hard to tell who is bad player and who is a good player

[agile zealot]

I mean I didn't quite say that, you're taking it to the extreme

[winter moat]

u literally said "its hard to be bad or good at this game bcos everything is free"

[azure lodge]

literally you?

[tepid dagger]

People can't comprehend skill gap, ill tell you rn when an enemy pushes thru me I reposition or take my chances in the head on point blank gunfight, and usually win

Added collision will make the game feel worse and clunky and bring the skill ceiling lower. End of discussion

[agile zealot]

What I said was it was hard to be truly bad, but it was also hard to be actually good (by which I mean exceptional, far above average play)

Possibly language gap, I should have emphasised better

[versed silo]

how does player collsion connect to skill?

[quaint garnet]

movement techs

[agile zealot]

Because apparently only people with bad kd (which means bad skill) want it

[versed silo]

so walking through the enemy is now a "tech"?

[winter moat]

bcos people who want collision say that simply turning round to continue shooting whoever ran through u is too difficult

[quaint garnet]

take it from the others not me

[tepid dagger]

Because no good player ever complained about it. Because good players can use it to their advantage and it adds skill ceiling

[agile zealot]

I don't think anyone in this thread has ever said that btw

[tepid dagger]

The only people who advocate for it and people who are too sluggish to register it and do a 180

[versed silo]

it sucks and its totally valid to want it gone

[winter moat]

its literally why i joined in today, feel free to scroll up (even tho u have been here the whole time i have)

[balmy jay]

I said that... but I said it was easy because I mastered responding to it

[versed silo]

same thing with lean spamming

[balmy jay]

I'd say ya just add collision

[winter moat]

wow look at this, ur replying to me saying this and saying it is too hard

[tepid dagger]

Id say just get better 🤷‍♂️

[agile zealot]

I'm a good player, my kdr is 2.34, my favourite class is Support, my highest score is 6910718

Oh no tell a lie, my most played class is Engineer

[tepid dagger]

Let me be clear here, im not saying any of u in here specific are shitty players.

[quaint garnet]

lost my trust forever for your deceit

[frail stratus]

Isn't the entire reasoning behind inertia is that it's too easy to do 180's 💀

[agile zealot]

You said no good players complain about it. I'm a good player and Im complaining about it.

[frail stratus]

Bros contradicting himself

[azure lodge]

cant trust you, the game is so free its easy to be good so are you really good?

[winter moat]

from mr "there are no good or bad players" comes his new hit, "im a good player"

[agile zealot]

I have a high kdr despite not using high kdr weapons (even though I think kdr is a bad stat for seeing who's actually good tbh)

[tepid dagger]

Logical fallacy

[winter moat]

why is it the only one u listed then>?

[agile zealot]

Didn't say that, learn how to read

[agile zealot]

Ahhh ok 😉

[winter moat]

u did however say turning 180 degrees was too hard and then pretend no one has ever said that, sorry but im having a hard time seeing the value in engaging with u in good faith

[agile zealot]

Nope, didnt

You're making things up in your head

[tepid dagger]

If you were actually good you learn to deal with the mechanics present in the game as current, sorry but 2. What ever kd doesn't really impress me, when any one can do that very easily

[versed silo]

what do you think is the best stat?

[frail stratus]

If a 180 being hard to do instantly which is why we need collision that means we don't need inertia because the movements are now hard apparently

[tepid dagger]

Also kd doesn't make u good in general

[agile zealot]

Ahh classic, "only bad players would complain, so you must be bad"

[winter moat]

vs the "im good (allegedly take my word for it) so i must be right and ur wrong"

[versed silo]

[balmy jay]

urwh @winter moat can you stop you caused such a ruckus in #off-topic

[agile zealot]

Never said that either

[versed silo]

we taking circles

[agile zealot]

You're really on a roll for making things up

[winter moat]

i didnt cause that ruckus, i merely took part

[azure lodge]

yes thats literally it

if movement gets a good player killed the dude will most likely say nothing or go "damn i got owned"
a bad player dies to movement and he will complain and get annoyed by it
the same is happening with zapping, no one gives a fuck unless you are bad and use it as an excuse when dying to it

[winter moat]

also so what, im not allowed to say my piece in a discussion thread anymore bcos of one guy arguing with me yesterday?

[versed silo]

whats zapping?

[balmy jay]

no but it's just that idw that to be happening here again

[agile zealot]

I think the skill ceiling of this game would be raised by enemy collision being implemented

[azure lodge]

it will lower it not raise it

[winter moat]

it wont, yeti has shown hes not worth engaging with seriously

[quaint garnet]

no offense i really don't think it's hard to pull off running past a person to make them play a guessing game

[balmy jay]

how

[winter moat]

less options = higher skill ceiling somehow?

[azure lodge]

a bad player having to react to a guy running through him so he has to react quickly, turn and aim/shoot
vs
a bad player having to react to a guy running against him so he only has to press mouse1, literally free

[tepid dagger]

Then you do it, and stop complaining, making the game worse off? Like why is this a hard concept?

[azure lodge]

wait joe i thought you needed to go? but you are back with clown emotes again like a child

[tepid dagger]

You guys keep contradicting urselfs, saying its not hard and then can't cope with it urselfs

[balmy jay]

add enemy collision cause it buffs riot shield. end of thread

[frail stratus]

nerf moving your mouse people with good aim are at an unfair advantage

[winter moat]

cringe reductionist take

[agile zealot]

If you know you can run through someone you can just do it and it's usually free, it also doesn't slow you down at all.

If you can't, you now have to think about how you're going to get past that person, do you try and rush, do you grenade, flank, bypass?

That's the skill I'm talking about, it's a change that forces you to think more by removing the easy option.

[quaint garnet]

i mean it's not really thrilling if there was an option between taking a head on gunfight with pure reaction time vs running through them to take an advantage i'll take the latter

[balmy jay]

you think the average player would care about that. we go zoomy anyways

[frail stratus]

update goes through riot shield is still shit and 87 other things a broken now

[winter moat]

this really shows ur not as good as ur claiming, u think throwing a grenade would be a good option in the moment u round a corner and see a guy right in front of u?

[azure lodge]

but at the same time you lower the ceiling for people that instead of having to react to someone running through them only need to press mouse1 cuz they run into them without hvaing to aim or readjust

[tepid dagger]

I personally don't think player Collision has any place in a game with as many players and as small maps as BBR. Plain and simple. It would feel terrible and ruin the flow.

[agile zealot]

Here's the cope

[winter moat]

heres u ignoring all reasonable responses as usual

[frail stratus]

namak lol

that would be so bad

[tepid dagger]

U literally would be able to move on Namak, like how is this a suggestion

[winter moat]

C flag on construction when u cant go through any doors, hallways or staircases lmao

[frail stratus]

can't move 1 cm without running into someone

[agile zealot]

I'm honestly curious and this isn't facetious, what are you describing when you say flow?

[tepid dagger]

Moving around the map, pushing corners, you know, playing the game

[frail stratus]

idk casually running through a door and then getting body blocked by 13 dudes who are too bad to take aim feels pretty jarring

[agile zealot]

Can you go into more detail? That's a bit vague

[frail stratus]

and just general movement like den said

[winter moat]

multiple examples is "a bit vague" lmao this guy

[azure lodge]

play old district with collision

[frail stratus]

Bros gonna create traffic jams in bbr with this suggestion

MF we gonna need roundabouts on namak

[azure lodge]

old namak with collisions even better

[spiral plover]

You say traffic, I say a fire fight at no distance

[winter moat]

evo meta time

[spiral plover]

Evo go brrt?

[frail stratus]

"we need collision!" mfers when it just makes the same SMGs they were complaining about stronger

[winter moat]

dont have to worry about recoil if ur shoving the barrel into everyones face

[balmy jay]

sigh. whether collision is implemented or not, I will still click on people's head nonetheless

[spiral plover]

I have one single phrase

[tepid dagger]

Okay since u can't visualize this, let me paint u a picture. You just spawned in, new round, 254 players. You want to run to the nearest obj, u have 54 teammates in ur fucking way blocking u. U get slowed down, u don't make the first cap. One example of shit that would be

[spiral plover]

MG3 go BRRRR!

[balmy jay]

that's why it's called an ✨enemy collision ✨

[quaint garnet]

it's enemy collision

[agile zealot]

This is enemy collision, enemies only. The proposed change would still allow you to pass through friendlies no problem

[frail stratus]

one day we will get it one day 😞

[winter moat]

this is exactly the point, good players will still dominate bad players, it wont actually change anything except for contributing to killing off playstyles and making people who like them more likely to quit the game

[spiral plover]

also keep in mind this is enemy only collosion

So that example is null & Void

[agile zealot]

I 1000% agree friendly collision in BBR would suck and make the game unplayable

And would be a Bad Move

[tepid dagger]

Okay fair, look at namak there is like 3 hallways. You wouldn't be able to push any of them and it would turn into even more of a grind fest

Unless u go all the way around the outside

[quaint garnet]

namak has tons of flanks

[frail stratus]

bbr after it becomes road traffic simulator 📉

[tepid dagger]

Yes most of which are clogged with 30 dudes

[quaint garnet]

theres not gonna be that much people either

there's other points too

[agile zealot]

I mean, should you even be entitled to run through a held position without killing everyone first? To stop you entering they would literally need to be standing in the door/hallway

[quaint garnet]

if they have 30 on each flank then it's time to go to another point

[frail stratus]

suicide c4 mains when their shitty weapon is made even worse when this gets added

[agile zealot]

Inshallah

[tepid dagger]

Pushing any small building like the ones on say oil will be aids

Trying to move thru any cap on district will be impossible

[agile zealot]

Its still quite rare for people to completely block access to an area with bodies, which kind of comes back to the skill aspect as rushing past a camped spot would require more movement skill.

If they are in a doorway (which is rare) they're behind zero cover at point blank range

[tepid dagger]

Maybe, maybe not. I just see it being jarring as heck rounding a corner and just coming to a halt because 1 dude was standing there.

[agile zealot]

Kill them and move on? Theres no inertia

[frail stratus]

it feels bad and disrupts flow

[tepid dagger]

You guys probably want that too, I mean there is a thread for that.. what is ur opinion?

[frail stratus]

we can kill them just as fine

it's just fucking jarring either way

[agile zealot]

My opinion was previously pro but for specific reasons, the changes Oki has stated fix the majority of those so honestly I'm not bothered about inertia

[spiral plover]

shoot enemy?

also unless they are in the way, they don't block you

a additional side note Explosives

[quaint garnet]

Yeah i wonder if it will push your gun back like it does with normal walls

Will see

[tepid dagger]

The reason I find bbr so fun is it feels nice to play, movement is crisp and there isn't bs like body blocking

[agile zealot]

Having someone surprise run through you is jarring

[spiral plover]

or even wack them in face with sledge if they are somehow still alive & in way

[winter moat]

cant wait for dropshotting to become massively more popular to replace running through people and then having even more people cry about that and say proning should be nerfed lol

[frail stratus]

Lmao

[azure lodge]

thats what gonna happen
collision added? they find the next thing that bothers them and so on and so on until they have their perfect game while ruining it or the rest

[tepid dagger]

100% they already complain about it and I never see many people do it

[agile zealot]

Dropshotting is already a hot topic, I think a whole lot of medic players were complaining that it was OP because supports had working bipods now

[frail stratus]

bipods are not op lol what

everything else about support is dogshit let them get one semi decent thing

[agile zealot]

I know, it was a hot take

[winter moat]

i have literally never seen a single person even remotely suggest bipods are op at any point

[frail stratus]

we can agree on that atleast

🤝

[tepid dagger]

Bipod are not needed at point blank ranges where u dropshot that is ridiculous 😅

[quaint garnet]

Haven't had anyone complain about dropshotting in my games tbh, only exception being the guy who always complains after each death on mic

Good fun

[frail stratus]

Exactly, the recoil benefit only helps at range

[tepid dagger]

Even at like 150m the likes of m249 don't need bipod

[agile zealot]

There was a loooong discussion in one of the feedback threads just after the change was made

[quaint garnet]

The horizontal recoil reduction is nice

[frail stratus]

Aight guys we are agreeing on stuff far too much this is a movement thread we are in here

[quaint garnet]

At 100m yea

[frail stratus]

Not allowed too happen

[quaint garnet]

Take me back to support feedback 😭

[azure lodge]

we need joe back, i miss the delusion in this thread and clown emotes

[tepid dagger]

Nice yea, needed? Nah that thing is super ez to control, who ever started that thread was looking for any reason to remove it

[agile zealot]

I hope it gets added, I think the actual end result will be far less impactful than this thread suggests, but will add some fun encounters. By the looks of the voting in updates it's 2:1 for so it's probably going to happen.

If it is dogshit or the implementation is poor, I'm sure it'll get rolled back

[quaint garnet]

Yeah for sure, also sounds like a yikes for me

[azure lodge]

yeah idk about that
rollbacks arent really the strength of bbr

[frail stratus]

Everything I've complained about collision is about the effect of the current implementation in official servers

Cause that's hard collision

and its horrible

[wanton shoal]

I can take my AP mine, run into enemies and place them without getting shot all the time

[frail stratus]

If they actually did good soft collision which prevents body blocking then I'm all for it

[agile zealot]

They've done plenty before

[tepid dagger]

^ this im willing to see "soft collisions" as u fellas were calling it, but as long as u don't get pushed by other

[winter moat]

if ur not getting shot at all it is not a collision issue, its a "ur enemies are asleep at their desk" issue

[quaint garnet]

OCE only has an infantry server with instant respawn gonna be very funny when this change rolls out

Or aus i should say

[frail stratus]

that sever is fire

server

[wanton shoal]

Meaning they are aiming at their friends and me behind them/in em

[quaint garnet]

So true, can't get used to having a respawn timer anymore too slow

The zerg rushes are goated

[tepid dagger]

If people can run into u while ur aiming at them and it throws ur aim off, its just gunna be worse than it is already. Doesn't even have to push u, if ur barrel goes wonky like it does when ur against a wall it will be shit.

[frail stratus]

the 20 second cool down is really annoying if you get a bad squad spawn and get killed instantly

worse feeling

[quaint garnet]

Yeye

[agile zealot]

Haha that would actually be funny as fuck

[tepid dagger]

I'll winge

[agile zealot]

Fucking with a DMR user by running into him and his long barrel

[tepid dagger]

Thats just another tarkification as ill call it. Inertia is the other one

If they both go thru ill just go play tarkov again, at least it has gun porn

[agile zealot]

I don't think either will happen

[frail stratus]

If they do end up doing player collision

They shouldn't add it to the event

If the implementation is shit the first impression for new players will be horrible

The game would never come back

Test it after the event

If it goes well, keep it

If it doesn't, don't keep ot

But don't let chance fuck up the one chance the game has to come back

[agile zealot]

I would be really nice is BBR had a public test env. You could access through a different client, which gets the patch a week earlier than live

[frail stratus]

Yeah

[agile zealot]

To test, get used to and provide feedback

[frail stratus]

Public test for everything in upcoming

That would be very nice

Go suggest that

Public test branch

If we are gonna experiment with weird movement balances don't do it in the week we are trying to bring new players in

[agile zealot]

NGL tho I have friends who just straight up quit because people ran through them and span about, I think adding a soft nerf (not being able to spin through people) might make people trying the game stick around long enough to get good.

[winter moat]

if people are quitting over that kind of death they would 100% have ended up quitting for some other reason if running through people wasnt possible

[agile zealot]

These aren't noobie players, we've been playing BF since 2 and their opinion was "it's just weird"

[frail stratus]

Right

I'm more saying if the implementation is bad

Not a good idea to test that the week of twitch rivals

Cause if it's shitty then a stain is left on the games rep that will never be cleaned

[agile zealot]

Has twitch rivals ever been good?

[tepid dagger]

So now ur saying to deny mouse inputs because u body checked someone? Am I reading that right?

[agile zealot]

Ah no, I'm not saying anything

[frail stratus]

it's also the week that we are expecting a bunch of new players

[agile zealot]

The point I was making is the new player experience isn't fantastic

[frail stratus]

Imagine trying the game for the first time only to be meeted with some weird untested shitty mechanic

[agile zealot]

Sorry let me clarify, I'm agreeing with you Mango

[winter moat]

u really think making movement have worse flow somehow fixes the fact theres an inherent skill gap in fps games that can never be changed?

new players will almost always get rolled in an fps game, unless ur just giga gifted like shroud or something

[agile zealot]

The best way I can describe the term is "less exploitable"

[tepid dagger]

Please clarify what u mean "soft fix" and " not being able to spin thru ppl"

[frail stratus]

Minecraft collision

you can slightly bump people around but you can't completely body block

what we currently have on community servers is hard collision

Players are immovable objects that can not be slightly moved through

[agile zealot]

By soft fix I mean making it slightly harder to spin through someone without adding a hard fix like inertia or air straifing nerf.

By spinning through people I mean exactly that, rapid movement through a group of people with zero slow down or impediment. Usually accompanied with an SMG or C4.

[tepid dagger]

Okay I misunderstood

But tbh even with so called minecraft collision its not going to change anything tbh. Yes I can't go directly thru ur body, I just go around and u still have to 180 me and I still got the advantage.

[quaint garnet]

Do you slide off people or does it just feel really jank?

[tepid dagger]

Slow player are still gunna get dunked on, they will complain. And it just adds fuckery to a game like imo would likely make it feel worse, and not solve the problem. So why do it it the first place?

[agile zealot]

If it's just an immovable cube, that's a bad implementation. You should be able to stand on top of someone prone and bumping should have some kind of pushback.

But it's whatever Oki can implement at scale with the spaghetti code that is BBR

[frail stratus]

It's really jank

That's the reason no one has it on

Same with inertia

[agile zealot]

Some classes cannot help being slow, even non-support classes are noticeably slower.

[balmy jay]

I'm tired seeing all this arguments. I will just wake up tomorrow and still play the game well. oh well. goodnight

[agile zealot]

Night!

[tepid dagger]

I don't mean move speed, I mean reaction and aim

[quaint garnet]

Should probably head off too later ya'll

[kind badger]

when a medic with max movespeed moves mach 10 and is VERY difficult to hit in cqc, and they abuse that to a point where it goes from them having an advantage to being physically impossible.

[winter moat]

the way ive run circles around some people just reminds me of playing bf2042 with crossplay against controller players lol, theres just a huge gap between the good players and the bad ones that no amount of nerfs will ever bridge

[kind badger]

that should never be the case.

[spiral plover]

Good night

[winter moat]

medic isnt even the fastest class, its engi, why are u making this a medic thing randomly to something i said ages ago?

[agile zealot]

The very netcode itself favours those who engage close up and shoot first with high rpm weapons, I don't think the skill gap is quite as big as you think. A lot of people are dead before they have time to click.

That's just the fact of how the game runs with such a high player count

[winter moat]

oh ur back to pretending theres no real skill gap again, yawn

[tepid dagger]

I'm inclined to agree. Me running around u instead of thru u, maybe loses a .2 sec advantage, at most im still gunna kill u

[kind badger]

Because medics who self heal and fly at comprable speeds are an issue too lol

Imo more so

[agile zealot]

Didn't say that, stop projecting

[tepid dagger]

I'll do it with assault too bro, its not a medical problem

[winter moat]

its even harder to track arguably, if i run past them i can just do loops/turn back on myself repeatedly while i reload/bandage rather than just going through once

[winter moat]

still has nothing at all to do with what u replied to

the lack of collision isnt gonna stop people having circles run around them

[tepid dagger]

This

[agile zealot]

Getting the drop on someone is 100% legit btw, I'm in no way trying to say it isn't.

[kind badger]

yeah idgaf about that issue. Some people atent gonna be anle to keep up

[agile zealot]

You absolutely have a 100% better chance killing someone taking them by surprise

[kind badger]

But clipping THROUGH people is silly, hard to counter, and 90% of the tome when it happens you cant tell where the guy doing it is at due to lack of feedback