Armour - Feedback

[merry whale]

because big mag you say is good

[hard valve]

Yeah it's way better for big fights

[merry whale]

we could just slap on the opposites in our examples

[grave shard]

vector and scorpion are fucked rn
i unload 4-10 bullets into someone and their head before unavoidabely getting flurmped by the recoil yet nothing hits

[hard valve]

There's also big server issues right now so it's even worse

[grave shard]

yup

[supple pulsar]

the only time i experience bad hitreg is pubg way back and cs2 right now for just weekly chest drops

LMAO

[hard valve]

Do that I'm waiting

[grave shard]

scorpion is a pain rn

[merry whale]

so a 0.44 ADS speed

[hard valve]

Bigger mag is always better for longer fight that's why there's actually a LOT of P90 players in the top leaderboard

[merry whale]

and doing math on the Famas on assault to emphaze my point

[supple pulsar]

i should try scorpion but my iron sight sensitivity is shit right now i tried using scorpion and my recoil just went flying

[grave shard]

shouldn't this all be in the support feedback xD

[merry whale]

0.25 with a 25% if I recall ADS speed boost

[merry whale]

it is under armor

but anyhow

[hard valve]

That's because you actually move the LMG topic here

[merry whale]

the 0.25 if my math is right becomes a 0.18 or 0.19 depending how you enjoy rounding

[hard valve]

[supple pulsar]

then why are there no support player topping they ahve big mags bigger than p90

[merry whale]

so the famas has 2x the ADS speed to be generous

[hard valve]

Why ADS speed boost? becuse you're talking about assault there?

[merry whale]

We never decided on the class the support was fighting

I felt medic & engineer would've been MORE unfair

[supple pulsar]

most of the time its either fal, p90, smgs are on the top

[hard valve]

Because Medic is still one of the best class actually, and P90 is way easier to use

[merry whale]

because medic would skirmish you to death

and enginere, well we include stuff like RPG heat

[grave shard]

fucked by kazkus logic xD

[supple pulsar]

oh really then support not op then

[hard valve]

not at all actually it was pretty childish and you can spam emote, but it doesn't change anything

[merry whale]

So assault felt to be more on par of the enabled ones

[supple pulsar]

man if support is op theyll prefer support than medic

[hard valve]

I never said they're OP you can read above, I said bolt sniper rifle shouldn't need more than 1 bullet in head to get killed

[supple pulsar]

people always swing to meta and support isnt meta]

[merry whale]

So famas wise

it has a now near instant reload

[grave shard]

well then go top on the leaderbord with support and a drum mag mg36

[hard valve]

Obviously 🙂

[merry whale]

so effectively bundle all the mags into a near big mag

with some light breaks

otherwise the ADS speed is now twice the supports which causes any arguements on reactions to be brought even further into the light

so he gets more flinch on the MG36

he gets it faster

[hard valve]

I said to compare on the same spot and now you're talking about the class with a bonus ADS and the support class

[merry whale]

causing the MG36 to have a tougher time hitting & missing more often

[hard valve]

[merry whale]

Which causes more dps loss

Want me to do medic?

Want me to do engineer?

or leader?

actually Leader sounds good

makes my points More

Leader gets a drone like recon to spot the support

[supple pulsar]

put leader range finder binoculars to recon

[merry whale]

he equally has only light armor & such to help

But still he gets good ADS speed & the like to allow him to ambush & skirmish the support even better

and the support is slower no matter what the support does to a leader

Engineer I could just say "RPG HEAT & support dies because too slow to move, very with a MG36 out"

you get the idea if we include lethal gadgets

But medic we could just go out speeds you & pokes,prods and so on

[hard valve]

Actually all the fight don't even start with all guys behind 1v1, in a straight line and having to ADS that's was my exact point to say :
1st the ADS is only for 5m+ fight
2nd it's only the case if BOTH have to aim, when you're support you're not RUSHING so it's also not the same gameplay
3rd they got the same TTK on 100hp target BUT the support because you're still compairing them with the classes, can have a heavy armor/exo and as I said on a 1v1 being surprised, or while facing multiple targets you'll not shoot in the legs

[merry whale]

to just heal up faster than you

Who said all my fights I just listened was 1v1s in a straight line straight tank off style

[hard valve]

You're completly changing the topic now.. we're compairing 2 weapons not accessories and weird situations it's not scientific

[merry whale]

I am making a Point Okami

[hard valve]

You're talking about a 1v1 that almost never happened I'm talking about the stats of the weapon itself

[merry whale]

Note in that same paragraph was a "You get the idea if we include lethal gadgets"

[hard valve]

Where?

[merry whale]

Literally below it

[hard valve]

Come on ping it

[merry whale]

did

now read

[hard valve]

Nah you talked about it, not me

I'm compairing weapon, MG36 and FAMAS

[merry whale]

okay I said I said that

[hard valve]

You are talking about shit

[merry whale]

But to the point

[hard valve]

🙂

[merry whale]

the famas has synergies

The famas has better speed

[hard valve]

synergies

magical

[merry whale]

the famas inflicts more flinch

[hard valve]

actually it's the class, you said it yourself

it inflicts more flinch

so.. it's 2 guys shooting in same time?

[merry whale]

hmm?

The famas shoots faster

[supple pulsar]

if they shot a the same time one with faster ads wins

[merry whale]

inflicts more flinch impulses per second to a 600 rpm

and the MG36 by a default is slower

before we even add all the penalties

and possible bonuses

[hard valve]

if they aim in same time, manage the same recoil, and are on point where damage are almost the same (which is the case on TTK on MG36 vs Famas)

[supple pulsar]

if they aim at the same time

one will have a slower aim down

[merry whale]

So that is a instant issue with your arguement

[supple pulsar]

one faster one and shoots faster

[merry whale]

which again inflicts more flinch

[hard valve]

Exactly, and if one don't ADS (which I do very often) you'll not have that ADS problem, obviously for less than 10m fights

[merry whale]

causing more "recoil" for the MG36

[hard valve]

you don't have the stats on it, you're talking without numbers

[supple pulsar]

dont ads what

so you want to hip fire

[hard valve]

the "flinch" as you said, actually don't fuck me up when I was shooting with the MG36

[supple pulsar]

in cqc

[hard valve]

in CQC you'll most of the time hipfire yesp, doesn't mean you HAVE but it's faster to actually get the one in front of you

[supple pulsar]

thats not true

[hard valve]

for you

you hipfire midrange and longrange?

[supple pulsar]

if i have too yeah

[hard valve]

or maybe you only hipefire when they guy is just stuck on you

[supple pulsar]

even if it doesnt hit

[hard valve]

but if you want to kill faster, you don't aim, everytime if he's close, if he's far (10m+), you'll miss the head (or even everything)

[supple pulsar]

ill just unga bunga myself before i die

everytime i watch people shoot in this game

they always ads

and rarely hipfire

i mean we can count the clips in #clips-streams-videos

[hard valve]

Famas is more efficient in CQC because it has the MS (doesn't change anything in a 1v1) but have the ADS advantage if you use it, MG36 is more consistent on mid fight and long fight
The flinch thing is full bullshit, because the famas will also get it (you said it yourself)

[supple pulsar]

see how many people hipfire vs ads

in cqc

[merry whale]

MS actually changes a good bit in a 1v1

lets you get to cover faster

[hard valve]

Yep and 90% of BBR commu is giga casual and have pretty low KDA, that's why I was talking about profile page earlier

[merry whale]

also keep in mind that 20% MS hit

[supple pulsar]

casual still player base soo

like

gun with faster ads wins

casual or not

[hard valve]

Will give you a fair example but in competitive game, the gameplay change black to white (or reverse as you want) when speaking about low skill players and high skills players

[supple pulsar]

aight

[hard valve]

No again :
1 if you don't need to ADS you can hipfire
2 if you're already aiming you don't have the ADT
3 if the ennemy is already aiming you'll OFTEN die in 1v1 even before you started shooting because the time is very short

[merry whale]

(forces support to ADS rather than hipfire because of the slow speed, catches him off guard among other ways is easier as well)

[hard valve]

and I can tell you so.. I did many games today and often when you're aiming at someone who's not aiming, he's dead, and he doesn't even play

[supple pulsar]

again a lot of people by muscle memory ADS

[hard valve]

Sure but they loose time and they die, that's why I use hipfire more, also because I've 1k hours on Rust, 5k on BF3, etc

[merry whale]

There are many issues with the MG36

you keep ignoring

[supple pulsar]

but like already checked 2 youtube videos there they already ADS even tho the enemy is like 10m-30m in his face

[merry whale]

But to the point Okami

[hard valve]

I think the main problem is the support class, because you're also ignoring it's big forces

[merry whale]

I feel the famas is better than the MG36

[hard valve]

in CQC yeah

in midrange and longrange not at all

[merry whale]

So support is a part of it,regardless

[hard valve]

it's just a feeling and the "meta"

[merry whale]

it is like how the balance works in various games where there is some balance to make up for whose side it is on

[hard valve]

The balance is also different based on your "skill" on this game

[supple pulsar]

which most of the maps are cqc

[hard valve]

not obviously, I played a lot of conquest, I talked about CQC for only 20-m fights

[merry whale]

aka the insurgents in squad get more vehicles as a example (on average when I last played) with more variety to engage in various ways like the flak techincal, or the fact they got a mosin nagant in their kit which could OHK to the chest

on their rifleman

AKA The most easy to access one

But to the point

The LSGs & LMGs are defined by being on support right now

So they are like a tree trunk & Tree branch, you always seeone with the other

[supple pulsar]

so like if this game is cqc then it already shows support has a place but still cant do shit with all the cqc

has a place for long range gun fights which is uncommon

[hard valve]

It was also that on BF3 and Recon was not "OP" that's why I'm telling you that having support dying 1sk HS is really really normal and it's my actual problem because it also FORCES the meta on the M200 instead of having a lot of sniper rifles viable
again that problem was made by the developper that make this, if the base game was : support have big armor but get OS in head you'll not even think about having an helmet resisting a bolt rifle shot, specially on a BF-like game

[merry whale]

various snipers can two tap the legs or arms still

the M200 has a lot more going for it beside raw damage after all

lets see

300 above the others at min in velocity

[hard valve]

Yeah I prefer to just shoot down and don't take 4 years to aim at different spot, as I said it's normal for a bolt rifle to shoot 2 times, the TTK become absurd, and the guy will almost hide himself and heal everytime

[merry whale]

nearly a straight shot to 600m with ease of adjustment to 1000

ease of leading

[hard valve]

I also posted my profile page on the offtopic you've to scroll a bit
I don't have a lot of hours and I'm playing all weapons

[merry whale]

It has more bonuses than you make it out with by saying support FORCES IT

when he is a more rare class pick in my experience

[hard valve]

wdym

[supple pulsar]

idk im fine with snipers getting the kill its not like theres a lot of good snipers in this game. tbh if you ask me if i wanna rank class Medic>engineer>assaault>recon>support

[merry whale]

Prior to the 2x xp weekend, I saw several games where there were a handful of supports at best

check the support feedback page & you can see some guys post in there of like 1 support in their lobby

[hard valve]

For Random PU yeah, not for squad teaming VC

[merry whale]

yea for squad teaming I saw 90% medics

[supple pulsar]

last time i saw a squad full of supports

was like theres no limit in claymore

[merry whale]

I recall several times I was the only support in a squad teaming VC

[hard valve]

Exactly, because medic is basicly OP, Engineer have the OP-RPG and recon can be fun to play with.
You know why people play medic? Because they like to give heal? (Like support give ammo?) Absoltuely not, because they can heal themselve superfast, bandage them superfast, and revive without having to resupply for bandage

[supple pulsar]

so are you saying

[hard valve]

that's the MAIN reason, why people don't play support

[supple pulsar]

support needs a buff/

[merry whale]

hmmmmmm

[hard valve]

and NOT because of the wepaons

[merry whale]

Hmmmmmmmm

[hard valve]

put RPG on support, boom RPG meta

no more engi

1 engi/game

[merry whale]

I doubt that to be blunt

assuming same slot

[hard valve]

it is you can spam "hmmmmm" in the chat, it's that

[supple pulsar]

i doubt that too

[merry whale]

it would be better as a engie

[hard valve]

I've discussed that with shit tons of players

it's that

[merry whale]

didn't spam even

[supple pulsar]

are you saying

remove rpg on engineer?

and put it on support?

right?

[hard valve]

no

[dense juniper]

me when

[supple pulsar]

uh

[dense juniper]

when armor thread

[merry whale]

Just did two & not in fast what I could do to spam manner

[hard valve]

I said if it's the case, engi will not be played anymore

read and think

[merry whale]

I doubt that heavily Okami

[supple pulsar]

LMAO SWORCE

[merry whale]

welcome Sworce

[hard valve]

yeah a guy put an other topic here we can go on the other one

[merry whale]

this is Okami saying support weapons OP thread

[supple pulsar]

doubt

[hard valve]

ah yes I said it's OP mb

I like when people transform things

HG said everyone here is a bitch, ban him pls

[merry whale]

lol

[dense juniper]

remove armor

[hard valve]

[supple pulsar]

LOL

[merry whale]

Here is a thing, I don't curse Okami

[hard valve]

and..?

[merry whale]

I don't use words like that either

[hard valve]

You're manipulating, it's even worse

[supple pulsar]

bruh

[merry whale]

and you kept trying to manipulate my words

[supple pulsar]

manipulating lmao

[hard valve]

Where I said support is OP, and support weapons are OP, come on ping

[merry whale]

lol

[hard valve]

You said it, come on

assume now

[merry whale]

you can't take a over exgratition

[hard valve]

Sorry I like the scientific way don't like demagogy

go on LMG topic now

[supple pulsar]

idk man if supports are really that good like you said they should be at the top of the leader board since they are good guns

[hard valve]

Ok Kazku good boi ^^

[merry whale]

for around the start by the way

it starts a bit higher

[supple pulsar]

like big magazine guns always wins

but gives p90 as an example

and not a support gun

[hard valve]

you're truely 1head it's insane

Keep doing reaction, it's better for you I think

[merry whale]

but I feel you could make a arguement of him saying "the M200 is OP because of only support exo helmet" could mean support OP in some ways but I can see reasons against that

[supple pulsar]

i mean

[hard valve]

Yeah you could also say : Sniper rifle are OP they can OS in head

[supple pulsar]

i mea you literally just said it

[merry whale]

Not really

[supple pulsar]

bigger magz are better didnt you say that/

[hard valve]

Check what I EXACTLY said Kazku with ALL the details

and you'll be a very smart boi ^^

[hard valve]

GOOD ^^

so

Is that

[supple pulsar]

idk man

[hard valve]

= bigger mag better (so better than other weapon with lower mag)

mh?

[supple pulsar]

is this not the right sentence that bigger mag is always better?

[merry whale]

a arguement can be equally be made for fast reloads too

[hard valve]

mostly not

you want to know why

Because when you're fighting you want to finish the faster you can to be able to recover on this game, which is pretty hard compared to other arcade games

That means you want to clean EVERYONE without reloading, bandaging etc

That's why MOST high skills players will NOT heal themsleves first and try to shoot OR swap weapons (now it's viable) to kill ALL the ennemies

and again because the P90 is good AND it has a bigger mag, you can wipe a team without reloading so it's strong

when you're fighting with famas, you'll be able to kill 1-2 guys (yeah maybe 3 if you're shooting in head superultraskill ok tier) and you've to reload instantly for ~2.5s of NO GAMEPLAY, that's what high skill players want to avoid

[merry whale]

keep in mind you got drop mag & keep mag, long(Emptied) reload & tactical (some bullets left)

[supple pulsar]

then why are high skill players not using support then

[hard valve]

And you want to know what, put "famas magazine" in the research historic of the server, you'll see how many people complain about it

[merry whale]

The 2.5 seems to be a average at most

[hard valve]

... I said weapon good.. then big mag if you can.. I'll stop answering to you.. it's boring, you're not even trying to understand it properly, so you're mostly a troll or a very dumbguy, hope for you it's the 1st one

[merry whale]

(I know most will use a drop tactical reload for fastest reloads)

[merry whale]

I will agree this topic is getting stale

so fun fact of the day

[hard valve]

even if it's 2s it's enough to get killed a lot

[merry whale]

Shady Sands has wind

[supple pulsar]

i still think support needs armor buff or every armor gets a rework

[merry whale]

armor in general needs work

easily ignored for chest armor

is a perma downside for a one to three fight at most upside

excluding the magazine & throwable capacity

Otherwise arms cover half the upper chest, legs I don't need to say

etc etc

also morning Solar

[distant cape]

Bear in mind I think the majority of players survive less than one fight on average

Armour gets worse as you get better

[merry whale]

Agreed there

[hard valve]

I think it's pretty inconsistent, on a equal fight with skilled players it can sometimes ruin a 1v1, and sometimes it can be useless, still the exohelmet shouldn't tank 1 sniper rifle (doesn't mean it has to be nerfed for other weapons)

[distant cape]

The exo helmet tanking sniper shots might just be the only reason to use it

[merry whale]

fun fact the exo helmet at 120 can be one tapped by any sniper (I am thinking it is rank 120, it is at least around there)

no face plate & thus it can be more easily avoided

[hard valve]

It's M200 with Ranger, LB, Heavy. The maths were already done while ago

[merry whale]

Okami

I said avoided

the open one which shows the face, doesn't protect the face like the rest

[hard valve]

it can tanks a lot of DMR/AR shoots while prone against others so I don't think it's good to even tank sniper rifle shot

[supple pulsar]

its not like the face has a bigger hitbox then the forehead part

[distant cape]

It can tank 25 damage from one, one time. And it slows down your aim speed and move speed disproportionately high relative to the defence it gives you

[hard valve]

because you can aim for that at 600m with every sniper.. like having the good timing, and aiming for the little hole... It's.. not that like stop

[supple pulsar]

snipers cant 1 tap at 600m?

[hard valve]

yeah it's for support with LMG like in BF with a LMG not moving..

You want to know what? in BF3 support was exactly played as OTHER classes, and it still get one shooted in face
and you could have ammo, and LMG on ground with bipod

[distant cape]

My point is that the chest plate is far more efficient for this purpose than the helmet is

Helmet has similar downsides to the chest plate but does much less

[merry whale]

I have seen several snipers do closer to 100m-200m

[hard valve]

so my point is : buff bipod, buff some specific stuff like movespeed if you want, but buffing it too much will actually put an other problem, being in CQC : many guys tanking 2/3 bullets and ending kill you when you're rushing

[merry whale]

also note how I said fun fact

[hard valve]

at the moment the problem is not there because the support is not meta, but as Everything (and like RPG did) it can become a problem if everyone plays with it

[supple pulsar]

how much hp does exo have again?

helmet exo

[merry whale]

chest or helmet?

[supple pulsar]

to be exact

[merry whale]

off topic okami

if I recall 37 for helmet

62 for chest

[hard valve]

Use the spreadsheet of Eleanor you'll have every informations about statistics :^)

[supple pulsar]

does elanors spreadsheet tells how much damage sniper has every 100m?

[hard valve]

you don't need that

ask first the question behind it

[merry whale]

okay checked myself to be sure

[distant cape]

It doesn’t start going up until something like 700m

[merry whale]

it is 37 for the helmet and 62 for chest

chest at a 10% downside & helmet 7.5% for run & ADS speeds

[hard valve]

~1 DMR bullet in head, no game like that from what I know

[distant cape]

Just to be clear I said 25 for head because most guns have a 1.5x headshot multiplier

Head is also a lot less likely to take hits than chest in general

I can actually run the numbers on this in a minute

[hard valve]

in prone front face it'll be the biggest hitbox, same stuff behind a window etc (with shoulders protected)

[merry whale]

for reference the heavy helmet has a 25 for a 5% hit

[merry whale]

that or arms

depends how the prone is setup

[hard valve]

I said it : frontface

[merry whale]

well more meant involving the cover & elevations in play

[distant cape]

Ehh, there aren’t really any situations where it’s the largest unless you’re set up in a specific way

Even prone facing forward, your limbs are easier to hit and they still can hit your torso

[hard valve]

and you're shooting at a target you're not really thinking of "am I hitting the arms" even at 30m

[merry whale]

aka if you are lower & have a hole of sorts, arms is a bigger target than head

And?

Just saying you are 9/10 either doing arms or heads

[distant cape]

In what sense is this relevant?

[merry whale]

also that

[hard valve]

Because you're mostly amiging for torso and head when shooting at every people so that's what you'll hit first

[merry whale]

whoops
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1152896217517391902/1159621701945012234/8mb.video-8QQ-VvOsqcHi.mp4?ex=6531b0de&is=651f3bde&hm=833de09e931c6ea935c9a91050c8848db934474922f1ab2b40c0f0ba8b5894dc&

[hard valve]

Maybe you're very slow, borderline 1KDA 0.5kill/min Ok I can Understand

[distant cape]

Does depend on recoil of the gun as well. Limbs take up about half of your character, so it’s easy to hit them even without aiming for them

[hard valve]

But on most fight, because you're running, fighting, etc, you'll often hit the armor, not every time, but often

[merry whale]

for a look at the player model in various positions

[hard valve]

Yeah it'll hit them often on fullauto I think

[distant cape]

Still - you kinda need to hit limbs with every shot for armour to not make a significant difference

[hard valve]

I've absolutely 0 problem with armour, my only one is the sniper rifle HS and I'd say it doesn't even hit me because I'm using the M200 Ranger BUT it's a gamedesign problem I think, it'll not change a lot of every sniper kill in head

you want to know why again? because everyone will play M200 if they don't put 1sk HS on support

and it's actually the case

90% of the playerbase play with M200, start a game, stay with recon, look open your eyes

[distant cape]

Exo headshot is not a super common scenario though. Other rifles can have better fire rate

[merry whale]

Otherwise

[distant cape]

M200 is only meta at very long ranges

[merry whale]

M200 has been popular for a while now, even with support at a low popularity

So it says something else is at play as well at the least

[distant cape]

Velocity, I guess

[hard valve]

because support is not meta, that's exactly what I said, it's not a "big" problem now, BECAUSE the support is not meta

[merry whale]

velocity & drop is my guesses

[distant cape]

I’m sure support will never be meta

[hard valve]

because OS in head and velocity that's all

That's all you want on a bolt rifle in all game

[distant cape]

Drop is directly determined by velocity

[merry whale]

unless some BIG changes happen

[hard valve]

that's why there's OS HS in every BF-game, cod game ,etc

[merry whale]

I am pretty sure support won't be meta anytime soon

[distant cape]

Oki is really reluctant to buff support at all

[hard valve]

yeah like a nerf on Exo helmet for bolt

[merry whale]

Note the second part of my sentence

Unless some BIG Changes happen, I am pretty sure support won't be meta anytime soon

[hard valve]

Well it's not second part because you cut each of your sentences in multiples lines

[merry whale]

who says that lol

I do multi send sentences

[hard valve]

Snipers will get reworked anyway

[merry whale]

But to the point

I doubt support will be a meta pick for a WHILE

[hard valve]

as I said, Engi is because of RPG HEAT only

[merry whale]

he may gain some popularity when he gets a change or something

[hard valve]

so it's stupid to say "it'll not be meta"

just give feedback about changes, look if they make it, if that change the meta, then the meta is changed

[merry whale]

Well it seems okri isn't touching RPG heat

it has been months

It seems oki isn't touching medic, even through it has been months

[hard valve]

yeah because it's not their biggest problem for now

the game is FULL of little problems

Vaulting, reloading iompossible to cancel, etc

[merry whale]

Support equally hasn't got any new guns but in the last update we got the 12th AR

(not complaining about another DMR through, they were low as well)

[hard valve]

Yeah they're shit

but it's armour feedback so.. everything of that just to say on the same point

[merry whale]

I enjoy a G3 & MK14 match every once in a while

[hard valve]

"give every bolt 1sk HS it'll not change many anything for support and will put more diversity"

and that's how you do gamedesign my friends

[distant cape]

13th, actually

[merry whale]

danke

[supple pulsar]

we already know support gonna get the mg3 with those data mined stuff

[hushed panther]

i mean 14th too, technically. G3 is way more of an AR than it is a DMR

[hard valve]

damn dude.. incredible
it almost looks like a SCAR, who'd imagine
but lower Hrecoil, same RoF, little less dmg

[random marten]

Yeah, the G3 is less of a dmr than the ak15

[twin hazel]

battle rifle class needs to be a thing

[distant cape]

no it does not

[limber pewter]

yes it does lol

[distant cape]

we have enough classes

[twin hazel]

for guns?

[distant cape]

yeah

we already have multiple that are pretty much the same

[twin hazel]

not really. alot of guns don't fit into those classes properly

some are in the completly wrong ones on top of that

[long pollen]

That has nothing to do with classes?

It's just about Oki being extremely bad at using those categories in any meaningful way

[dry cliff]

here comes a very thought out armor solution 🥸

Our brotha cooks

[long pollen]

After seeing the shit Oki just pulled with the map votes and respawn timers I'm scared of asking for armor changes

[timid night]

PDWs are literally just SMGs that are a bit better at penetrating light armor irl
they aren't even considered 'not smgs', there is no reason for them to exist as a class and yet they are
half the 'PDWs' in that class are actually carbines, there is an actual PDW(MP7) in the SMG class, and the scorpion somehow counts as a carbine
i don't think adding battle rifles, which would instantly remove some of the gun bloat from the dmrs and ARs, would be a bad thing considering all of those
especially if we also get a more sensible smg/carbine division

[long pollen]

Somehow always manage to make things worse in a different way

[dry cliff]

This map votes change is good

[timid night]

Like, guns that are carbines IRL:
M4, G36C, AS Val, Honey Badger, Groza, AK5C
You make the carbines category that and bam, sudenly the AR category isn't gigantic and the carbines category isn't a Carbine, and a SMG

The scorpion and the P90 go into the SMGs, and bam, you got rid of a reduntant category with no need to exist and equalized 2 categories where one is gigantic and the other is miniscule, as well as made the game make seem less arbitrary in how it balances weapon classes

[twin hazel]

I kinda want the PDW class to exist to have a niche that most SMGs wont excel at like defeating light and medium armor slightly better but I could stomach it if Oki decides to balance per gun rather than simply class wide like most weapon decisions seem to be.

[long pollen]

That would be worth the effort if armor was relevant in the first place :P

If it was up to me SMGs would just deal sad damage to any armor above light but in exchange they'd have the easiest handling and speed of any class. PDWs would be the CQC monsters with speed between AR and SMGs but Scorpion-ish crazy recoils and a reduced ammo pool that isn't meant to support extended engagements.

[twin hazel]

that would make them quite literally worthless. that is like every bad thing about the worst of every class.

if armor was working it would be a lot easier to balance but all armor is basically the same

just bonus HP that doesn't comback but leaves it debuffs

[timid night]

whichever way it goes, we have two actual PDWs ingame, the MP7 and P90
i feel for them to actually be a class, we'd need more actual PDWs, and they wouldn't be that much different from most smgs anyway

[twin hazel]

Honey badger is classified as a PDW

Groza is a carbine I think though

[long pollen]

Yeah I mean those changes together with armor rework

[long pollen]

I wanna see the AKS-74U somewhere, could throw it in there maybe

[timid night]

The honey badger is a carbine by every metric
A PDW is an SMG with armor piercing characteristics, they are made from the ground up as SMGs, even if they fire bottlenecked rounds, the rounds are always high velocity and low weight
Both the As Val and Honey badger are compacted down assault rifles that fire heavy weight low velocity rounds for the purpose of suppressed fire
They can't really be considered PDWs

[twin hazel]

that is what the honey badger is officially classified as, keeping the characteristics that are required to be called a PDW.

PDWs do not need to be derived from SMGs, and the only characteristic of the round that is looked at is if the round is "Rifle-like" for increased capability on armor. Suppressed ammunition is not something that will change the weapons classification.

if we want to be really technical

AS Val is a sniper rifle

purpose built for marksmen

but game wise, it fits better as a Carbine, maybe if DMRs were reworkd it could fit in there as a marksman rifle

[sick prawn]

VSS is the actual sniper version of the AS VAL tho

[twin hazel]

ah you are correct

technically both could classify as either a carbine or PDW. But officially the Honey Badger is a PDW, while officially the AS Val is a carbine.

[dense juniper]

Ok but

Armor 💀

[hard valve]

I think support could have 10% more movespeed while wearing armor than current MS to provide a more utility side to this class, but it shouldn't be too much to avoid guy running on you CQC and shooting like a madlad hipefiring.
And still think all bolt (or most of them) should kill them OS in head, pretty sure RN there's more support dying to RPG HEAT than snipers anyway

[long pollen]

No thanks I want to be a chonky boi. Screw speed I just want to face down the barrel of a sniper and laugh as I spray bullets in its general direction.

[hard valve]

chad

[grave shard]

this is what support is about, pure C H A D

[sick prawn]

Exo vest in general sucks, you have little advantage before taking shots

After you take shots, the vest is useless, it only slows you down with no benefit from armour points

That's why the big/normal vest feels the best

You have less downsides compared to the exo vest

Exo vest could regenerate OR there could be a gadget that fixes the vests

[dense juniper]

Ok

[sick prawn]

[hard valve]

I don't think heavy has any utility compared to exo right now, better to exo or just normal atm imo

it'll "improve" for 2.5% before modifier and you lose like 50%+ armor iirc, just remove it completly

[sick prawn]

Not heavy, big vest

Same stats as normal but one more mag slot

[hard valve]

ah I though you're talking about the in between, ok

[sick prawn]

Ye ye, no problem

Heavy vest has very little use, suffers from the same thing as the exo but worse since less armour, mov speed nerf and almost no benefits from mag reserves

Heavy could carry more mags and have a little more armour points

[hard valve]

maybe there should be some way to actually repair ammo with supply ammo box or smth

but the supply ammo box menu is already loaded so Idk
I don't want to have a medic full healing armor of a support guy shooting but in same time having armor removed for the whole match is kinda dumb
Maybe just add a %resistance (but for the FPS purpose it seems also kinda big changes) because it'll change breakpoints

[sick prawn]

Imagine repairing armour

[hard valve]

that's what you do IRL

imagine reloading

[sick prawn]

Too much work in a gun fight

[hard valve]

you're not using supply in gun fight

[sick prawn]

True

[hard valve]

you're killing till you can bandage or you go hide and bandage, 2 options no more

[random marten]

#1152896217517391902 message

[long pollen]

Nah you're forgetting the chad option: bandage in front of them while dodging their shots

* Only valid for overtuned SMG cocaine Medics

[hard valve]

you mean while jumpsprinting in air like a flying pig?

reminds me some Rust moment

[random marten]

Imo, armor repair should be a support thing that takes the same slot as the ammo box

[long pollen]

Yes, exactly like that 😌
#1159035953902534656 message

[hard valve]

the ammo box system is already heayv imo

[twin hazel]

Just take the medic box's second function, when it's thrown, and make that for armor, and give it to assault and support.

easy repair function that wont be able to be used unless you are decently safe

[hard valve]

yeah it could be something EVEN if actually medic DON'T throw aid kit.. or most of the time.. so it's more niche but it can be a possibility

I think it's better on the support directly

(would also make the class played more and provide more teamplay)

[twin hazel]

hence the assault and support

I also meant a specific box made like the medic boxes alternate function when it is on the ground

[hard valve]

Nah, nerf Assault selfish class and buff Support

We don't f* care about selfish class wanting to only buff their own ass because they're bat at the game

me playing support and shredding medic/engi/assault meta player

[twin hazel]

selfish class... assault?

[hard valve]

selfish.. only class of the game with combat bonus stats... assault..?

[twin hazel]

the class that is among the least played only beaten by support?

you kidding?

[hard valve]

nope, not at all, actually people are playing it with best weapon of the game to get their KDA/KD as high as my balls are

and that's fuckin boring, I want medic, support and marker (recon even if it's this game it's not at all about that) in my team, I don't want a trash kid wanting to frag

[hushed panther]

this okami guy has genuinely some of the worst takes known to man

[hard valve]

that goobie has genuinely some of the worst take known to man

come on give me argument that Assault is not selfish

compared to medic, support

[twin hazel]

Assault is supposed to be the selfish class

but that title goes to medic

assault just does not have the same survivability as medic does

nearly all the K/D warriors are using medic

[hard valve]

We don't need that in that game, there's already Engineer playing RPG HEAT to frag infantry, Recon spamming M200 (which is already the case you can check battlebite eng-chat where people said that exact thing) and there's now Assault, cool.

[twin hazel]

buddy, the assault is supposed tobe the solo friendly class. but medic takes it's place.

also, I am literally trying to make it more team oriented, but you say no?

[hard valve]

it does not, you want to know why? Because by making people playing medic, they'll also more tend to revive you, you know why? Because they revived 1 faster, 1 bandage faster, and because they're almost all time full HP they can try to be busy with other people

[twin hazel]

make up your mind

[hard valve]

Read

[twin hazel]

they don't fucking revive

[hard valve]

AAAH YES because assault revives more then?

🙂

worst take of the server

[twin hazel]

the other classes do buddy

[hard valve]

100%

you're lying so hard

[twin hazel]

I've been revived by more assaults and recons than medics

[hard valve]

you don't have any data and you're saying there than medic revive less than others classes

it's BS

[twin hazel]

not including being revived by the same medic over and over

[hard valve]

Read

[twin hazel]

Okami you are simply an idiot.

[hard valve]

you're the main idiot here

and you're sure about your point that is totaly BS

[twin hazel]

I want assault to be more team oriented

you say no for reasons

[hard valve]

the only fact that you're not sure is because there's no 1000 people behind me saying that's your saying shit

you just told me than others classses revive more than Medic

it's BS

Write yourself when you're revived

DO IT

THEN we can talk about statistics

I don't want to hear the random point of view of a guy saying "yeah medic revive less than assault" "assault is teamplay friendly"

you're completly out of your mind

[twin hazel]

Okami just shut up man.

[hard valve]

COme on

Say it on the global chat

come on

[twin hazel]

your trying to say that medic ain't the fucking selfish K/D warrior class in game

that makes you a fucking idiot

there are dozens of medics per game

and usually only a handful actively try to heal and revive

[hard valve]

If you've a little bit of brain you'd have read what I wrote earlier 🙂

[twin hazel]

many will simply ignore you

[hard valve]

but because you actually can't, you don't read me you're talking for yourself

I said, medic is the best class atm, because it can revive/heal faster SO it can also do it easier for other people around them

[twin hazel]

you're just screaming "write in chat"

no point to respond to that

[hard valve]

ask in global chat, not there

[twin hazel]

just because "medic revives faster" does not mean players actually do it bud

[hard valve]

you are deluded

[twin hazel]

pay attention to who revives you

[hard valve]

that take is deluded, you're in your world

[twin hazel]

its the same 5-8 different medics

[hard valve]

that what I was talking about

But nice to take my argument

[twin hazel]

sure buddy

[hard valve]

Try to be a little more original

Next time you play the game, check who revives you

[twin hazel]

you just said assault is the most selfish class that K/D warriors play

[hard valve]

Most time it's medic

[twin hazel]

still wrong dumbass

[hard valve]

you want to know why?

because they're full HP and they can heal you faster

[twin hazel]

you know you can tell when you get revived by a medic right?

[hard valve]

Don't insult me sweetheart, you're lying there I'm just putting the good things on you

[long pollen]

With a proper rework it should contribute by helping squad mobility by virtue of having grappling hook and C4 (and by proper rework I mean remove C4 from everyone but Assault and Engi).

[twin hazel]

you a fucking idiot.

simple as.

[hard valve]

Kek mirror

you've 0 argumentation, you're talking shit

can't wait to see your profile page ❤️

[twin hazel]

argumentation, right.

[hard valve]

"medic revive less than other classes" "assault is not selfish"

😂

you =>

[twin hazel]

the wall of text of "DO IT" and "POST IN GENERAL"

sure

[hard valve]

Ok 1head

because we're only 1v1

[twin hazel]

1v1

[hard valve]

can't wait to see more people joining the chat, like way more

[daring badge]

oy wtf goin on in here

[hard valve]

Diego

This guy told me, medic revives less than other classes, and Assault is not selfish but put more teamplay

when its only thing is having more combat stats so the guys keep fragging

[twin hazel]

I said assault needs to be more team oriented you fucking moron

[hard valve]

and he starts insulting me of being an idiot

[daring badge]

Ok both of you relax

[twin hazel]

I was literally talking about an assault gadget

to make it more team oriented

[daring badge]

It's just a game and this isn't even the right channel for it

[hard valve]

"assault gadget topkek"

Bandage, reviving and first aid kit are not team oriented..? because.. you can break walls? (when other classes can also do it with C4, RPG)

[twin hazel]

that is literally how this started by the way diego

[hard valve]

That absolutely not

how it started

[twin hazel]

what do you mean

[hard valve]

I didn't talk about that suggestion

[twin hazel]

those are my first two posts

[hard valve]

I said that assault is selfish

Read what I wrote

instead of reading yourself

3 times now

[twin hazel]

now you're just straight up lying

[hard valve]

I didn't talk 1 time about your suggestion

You are dude

because you're deluded

you can't even read the chat

[daring badge]

but my basic take on it is that medic has a stronger self oriented kit just bc SMGs, self heal and C4.
Assault is technically worse in fights but better long term bc of ranger vest (also on medic for reasons) and ammo box
Medic does have the tools for teamplay by being rewarded the same amount of XP to heal someone as a kill, and double XP per revive

[twin hazel]

^my original point that is.

[daring badge]

So you basically see an inflated population of medics, half for the medic part, half for the assault but better part

[hard valve]

"Medic does have the tools for teamplay by being rewarded the same amount of XP to heal someone as a kill, and double XP per revive"

Who has the better teamplay tools?

Say it please

I'm waiting

^^

[twin hazel]

I wanted to ADD a team gadget to assault you moron

[hard valve]

Oh and your takes about "medic revive less than other classes"

[hard valve]

you are the moron, I didn't talk about that

[twin hazel]

like literally make assault more team oriented

[hard valve]

dumb as a brick, can't read

[daring badge]

I'll go ahead and say that all of assault's gadgets right now are team oriented

I mean

ammo box

Rope gun

[hard valve]

ammo box for yourself

rope gun for yourself

revive and heal not of the others

noted

[daring badge]

They're pretty useful for the team, but I mean it's the same for medic

[hushed panther]

medkit for yourself

[daring badge]

^

[hard valve]

Yeah but when you're full HP you can heal others 🙂

When you're not you don't

Fact

L

[twin hazel]

Okami cant fathom that unlimited self-healing is more powerful than anything else

[hard valve]

that's all

I've like never get an ammo box from assault

[daring badge]

Classes in this game are just so unreasonably powerful that they do everything good, selfish, team oriented, etc

[hard valve]

I'm being revivde every day by Medic

and you're saying that assault is more teamplay

you are

deluded

[twin hazel]

he also cant fathom that many medic players play cause speed, and unlimted health and don't stay around long.

[hard valve]

Weird stuff no brainer, because I said it 1h ago on the battlebit eng-chat

[twin hazel]

he finds the 10 medics doing medic things, and assume the other 40 medics are doing the same thing

[hard valve]

but you're so brainlet you can't read again

[daring badge]

I mean both are available. Would you say engineer isn't a teamplay class just because RPG C4 combo is OP as fuck?

[hard valve]

RPG is mainly use against infantry atm, so it's less teamplay that's supposed to be

C4 is more teamplay than RPG atm

Used way more to open walls, kills vehicles (broken to do that) and way less to kill infantry (mainly for roofcampers)

[daring badge]

It's a similar conversation for medic. Medic is mainly used for mobility, kill power and self sustain, so it's less teamplay than what the name suggests, at least in my view

I'm sure there's people going in for dedicated healing but it's 50% or less

[twin hazel]

so again, seeing this, okami has decided that gadgets that help the team are not teamplay oriented.

[hard valve]

You are deluded if you think medic revive less than others classes, there's 2 reasons for that and it's mathematic :
1 - they're more often full HP so can tradeback or revive you
2 - they do it way faster (bandage, and reviving)

[daring badge]

You'd have to nerf medic to turn it into a teamplay class which isn't the end of the world imo

[twin hazel]

He also says assault is more played than medic by the K/D warriors.

[hard valve]

just because of this reason, your argument about Assault being more teamplay is full of BS

specially when actually there's a lot of KDA players going assault to have that ADS spead, reload spead with SMG

so you're telling me those guys are more teamplay than casual medic

it's false

[daring badge]

yea that's false I keep in touch with the sweats and they've told me that while assault is good it still needs more to make the swap

[hard valve]

completly wrong

[twin hazel]

when I said "they don't fucking revive". I was specifically talking about how many, maybe even close to half dont revive or heal.

[hard valve]

I never said that

[daring badge]

assault doesn't have SMG tho

[twin hazel]

Assault doesn't get smgs lol

[hard valve]

AR mb

[daring badge]

I mean yea I guess they're starting to move to AR

but infinite fast HP is kinda important to them

bc it makes the game easier/less annoying

Ranger vest makes ammo a who cares thing

[hard valve]

It doesn't change anything even if it's SMG or AR, you can play both KDA

Actually most heavy frontline go for FAL, Famas, etc

[twin hazel]

this whole thing is starting because he misinterpreted my hyperbole, and took it as a statement.

[hard valve]

Nah you just said you're getting less revive by medic

[daring badge]

Sure but it's easier to play medic for KPM/KD

[hard valve]

and you said that assault was more teamplay

[hard valve]

obviously I said it earlier

but because you're full HP you'll actually heal others

and by % you'll get way more help from a medic than assault

saying otherwise is just deludded 100%

and that was my point

[daring badge]

if you want to is the thing

[hard valve]

??

it's my gameplay, and it's the gameplay of others

you'll always save your life first to save others

you can't save others if you don't have bandage or fast reviving

it's just as the game works

[twin hazel]

what part of many don't do that did you not get?

[hard valve]

stop like interpreting things and making things that are not the case

it's mathematic

you'll ALWAYS be more heal by medic than other classes

that's all

[twin hazel]

for every 2 medics who actually medic theres gonna be another 2 that don't.

[hard valve]

I'm not saying that medic is not played by KDA Players

I never said that

I said that KDA players will ALSO go for assault because of combats bonus stats

THATS what I said

[daring badge]

I mean Okami's right in that medics are more likely to revive you, because there's more medics

[hard valve]

🙂

I know

It was like that in BF I played all BF games

[twin hazel]

again, he takes hyperbole, and tried to make it a statement

[hard valve]

Just saying that medic is less teamplay than assault is just wrong

[twin hazel]

cause reasons

[hard valve]

Devildogg, you lost the point, it's fine

Just stop now

Next time, try to read

[twin hazel]

I said that medic is the main selfish class, because that is what is used

[daring badge]

you guys seem to be getting hung up on weird phrasing why is it important to win this

[twin hazel]

not that it doesn't have anything for teamplay you moron

[hard valve]

absolutely not, it's not made for that, it's because it works like that, that people are using that you jobless onehead

[twin hazel]

I said medics be played by K/D warriors more than assault, and assault is one of the least used classes as it is.

[daring badge]

I'm not saying that medic is not played by KDA Players
You two literally agree wtf is this argument

[hard valve]

and where I said I don't agree with that?

[twin hazel]

thats diegos point

[hard valve]

I'm talking about the game, not community there

[twin hazel]

you started misinterpreted my statements and thats how we got here

[hard valve]

I'm not talking about who play what, I'm saying medic will heal more that's all, it's more teamplay
I've almost NEVER receive ammo box from assault because they do THE SAME AS MEDIC by getting the ammo for THEM

so STOP that bullshit of saying medic is more selfish

[twin hazel]

I was saying the other end of the spectrum

[hard valve]

maybe people playing medic are selfish

but the medic class is not

[twin hazel]

medic players, not the class

buddy

we were literally arguing two sides of the same point

if nothing else, we are both idiots

[hard valve]

Ok who attacked me on the assault class being more teamplay?

You want me to ping your message?

[daring badge]

now kiss and make up jesus christ

[hard valve]

No dude

[twin hazel]

actually please do

[hard valve]

you didn't understand my point ffs

[twin hazel]

tell me

[daring badge]

go argue in DMs this was supposed to be discussion for armor

[hard valve]

Ok good

[twin hazel]

cause I never said that

[daring badge]

Like take off ranger armor from medic

[hard valve]

.

[twin hazel]

in reference to this

[hard valve]

"selfish class assault" When I was talking about medic, support and engi (for vehicles mostly)

[twin hazel]

i was talking about adding an armor repair gadget to assault and support

[hard valve]

There you're talking about your suggestion.. ? when you litteraly answering to my speaking of the current game?

[twin hazel]

I believe I was replying to this post before your parenthesis message.

[twin hazel]

Again I was speaking of players

[hard valve]

[twin hazel]

not the classes themselves

literally the opposite of your argument, saying the same shit

[hard valve]

Ok

@hushed panther Where are you now looser

[twin hazel]

we literally had a 20 min argument over the same fucking point oh my god.

[hard valve]

lemme just answer to the taunt of the other dude

with his alt account 2023 april 23

[hard valve]

Ok but with that changes you don't fear that Assault becomes more played and then medic less and by that effect, you'll get less revive?

[twin hazel]

not really. Like I said the other classes revive me just as much as medics do, especially on flanks.

if I'm not getting revived, no one came for me. rather than a medic deciding not to usually

[hard valve]

Yeah because on flanks you can actually revive more, but you'll still be less revived in general
and atm the revive system is also a problem but it's not a #1152896217517391902

[twin hazel]

I was purely speaking of an armor repair gadget. something sorely needed

[hard valve]

I talked about that on general chat (when I was saying talk about it on general)
Atm you very often have to ask in VC which is a major issue

[twin hazel]

the problem is the little circle not really being noticeable beyond 12 meters, and your voice not reachign that far

[hard valve]

As medic, I think it's better on support like that they can actually fix themselves before fixing other, forcing people to repair other if they don't have armor will not work imo

[twin hazel]

well, you know the medic boxes second function

if a medic decided to throw it out?

I was figuring something like that, else it could easily be abused

drop it on the ground, have a second or two to repair a set amount of armor, chest first then helmet.

not really something meant to be quick at all

[hard valve]

they almost never do, I think there's "enough mechs" with the revive/bandagage/healing and I do think they should put more first aid box but you've to use it and earn more point while using, in BF they kinda fixed that by having an aura of healing (on the 3) then on the BFV you'd have to actually heal other a bit faster
But I do think it becomes a problem because of the UI

[twin hazel]

those three things are basically the same thing.

but yeah single targets tough

[hard valve]

It's too complicated, the game don't need to have like.. a body thing where you can repair arms.. head.. no it's tarkov like

The game is too casual to put mechanics like that, no one will use it (but for themselves)

[twin hazel]

adding another box is not complicated at all

[hard valve]

Game is super fast right now, that's why people don't revive you most of the time, because 1st they want to frag 2nd it's boring to do

if you remove one of theses two reasons, you can get an easy revive

[twin hazel]

thats a movement thing

[hard valve]

that's why you can't put heavy mechanics, and if you do that'll not be used or that'll be only used by a niche (kinda like the spot in the tank even if it must be like 0.000001% of the playerbase using it)

[twin hazel]

which is also being talked about

[hard valve]

wdym

[twin hazel]

the community just wants stuff faster right now.

hence the things that take the slightest amount of time beyond instant are met with scorn.

but the repair armor is simply needed.

if not a box, something else

else its forever just going to stay "lighter better"

which compounds on the movement problem

[hard valve]

that'll be bitch talking but it's due on how devs balanced the game
They put super strong weapon being able to kill you in 0.180s, put spam respawn, then weapon with 1500m/s velocity and then : hello guys we put that super slow mechanic, why you're not using it

I mean it's a roblox game, it's too late

[twin hazel]

yeah, hence the squad spawning also being talked about

also most weapons have the actual velocity of the weapon. m200 is the best yes, but its not like its better for most targets beyond oneshotting exo

every other sniper will oneshot everyone besides an exo user

[hard valve]

The whole armour system should be simplified, just put a %armor reducing some specific weapon on support (like high RoF weapons (smg or pdw..), maybe some others will play weapon that don't have those breakpoints but it'll still be more usefull than just loosing its armour

[twin hazel]

smoke working client side also doesn't help

I would love if resistances were added. heavy armor having more resistance to the smaller guns would be great, but I also want to keep the breaking armor thing, its actually kinda cool and a bit more unique than most other games.

It just needs a way to repair

[hard valve]

It's a tedious way to balance the armour because, it can just be broken af, on a game with super low ttk, being able to "random tank" bullets on a trade and win is just bad gamedesign

A day earlier I was talking about guys speaking of "leg meta" sure it was something when the game was not super famous.. even If I'm 95% sure not BIG PLAYERS (with like 2k hours) actually shoot in legs, maybe yeah when they're giga chilling not busy fragging like hell at 400APM

That's why armour is.. really specific, having armour your whole life (meaning more HP if it's a % reduction) would be OP and change the balance meta JUST around this class

and that I don't like at all

[twin hazel]

resistence to SMGs would be all thats needed I think, no more than maybe 15% for exo and lower the lower the armor, but still have the armor break

[hard valve]

I'd 100% prefer having specific tool or weapons like BF3 did with 0 armour system

[dense juniper]

Remove armor

[hard valve]

can be a solution

[twin hazel]

nah man breaking armor is generally fun, its just that heavy armor isn't fun after its broken

which can be fixed with repair, no resistances needed

[hard valve]

Every classes should be more closer to each other if we want a more balanced game I'd give you an exemple :
Put support class to 90% movespeed but having like 30 armor torso 15 armor head, and you can repair it with your supply ammo box or others ammo box (assault why not)

[twin hazel]

maybe make speed cap actually be 100%

and not 110 or whatever

[hard valve]

actually it helps medic to revive a bit faster but it's.. even lower differences than the ADS between guns

so it's... 1% of the situations..?

[twin hazel]

what movespeed?

[hard valve]

with SMG and PDW

[twin hazel]

ah

[hard valve]

you can have more than 100

maybe it should only be the case with guns

[twin hazel]

I just meant the stat, why allow over 100% movespeed

they got jets on their boots or something

[hard valve]

With guns it can provide plays

2nd weapon

it's not bad

but not with main weapon imo

[twin hazel]

I dont mind light kits move speed, but being able to run faster than your fastest speed cause of your character kit is weird

[hard valve]

or just put a 2% less ms with AR and 100% SMG

like that it's just min maxing armored core thing

implying 1% situation

[hard valve]

Yeah but because it's a specific stats 5% more+ to loose all your armour

like 105% max base (empty armour), 100% max on weapon, and 110% with handguns

[twin hazel]

I swear I’ve seen 110 with light. Before weapon modifiers

Maybe I’m mistaken

[daring badge]

Old empty helmet I believe gave runspeed?

or empty armor

smthn that made engineer meta bc it made you faster

[twin hazel]

Possibly. I tend to run armor so it’s been a while.

[hard valve]

Also don't forget guys that support is not the only one with armour (as you said for engi) so medic, assault will also get buffed because when rushing they'll also tend to maxed their stat (so repair ammo if they can)

so with those changes, support will be more played, but the difference between each class will be less

but I still think it's good

other thing, I think assault could have a movespeed or jump higher? instead of having ADS/reloading speed but it's an other topic

[dense juniper]

Ye

[daring badge]

I knew there was something

[dry cliff]

Reading this has effectively lowered my iq lol

Hot take, I think only engineer should have the armor pack

Assault's teamplay should come in the form of the grenade launcher, mobility tools, and other such gadgets that will hopefully be added I think

Engineer currently would probably be the least teamplay oriented class. The only thing they can do is repair stuff and shoot rockets. Yes the rockets kill things (much more effectively than they should mind you) and destroy vehicles, but the second vehicles are gone you may as well play medic.

I don't want it on assault because of what I stated. I don't want it on support because then support would be a self sustaining monster I think

Perhaps giving up ammo would be a respectable trade for it though. I'm ok with it being on both in that case

[merry whale]

Well I feel fragmentation would still do work in anti infantry & structure (When the RPG rockets get changed/if)

Personally assault only has one GL as of current (being a M320 smoke but clientside smokes can cause issues with this) and I feel assault + Support both can do with a box similar to the current ammo box sitution

[dry cliff]

That's the hope lol. I think they wouldn't hurt structure personally, but either or that's the change we'd want.

Maybe a smol armor kit for assault

[merry whale]

where assault gets either a large & small or just a small to fix one part & the other gets the opposite

[hard valve]

wdym

[merry whale]

With support I don't feel he would be a self sustaining powerhouse if you have it be a mutual exclusivity deal

AKA you get either your armor repairs or you get your restocking ablity

could give him the small one so he can only fix a bit of his armor (so say either the chest or the helmet for small and have the large fix both ; with a progress bar interruptable by damage, ya get the idea, No medic heal streams for armor repair to say the least)

[hard valve]

If it works like a repair box it'll actually have less impact than a normal ammo box
Armour has an impact but it's inconsistent, having a whole accessory to just repair that even for allies is far less efficient that giving ammo/grenade/bandages

For a thing that can actually compete with the meta you want a thing faster than the current heal (because HP > armour) of the first aid (and btw bandage have to be buff on everyone (but medic already super fast))

[dry cliff]

Having both ammo and armor is too strong imo, so I'm cool with it being a trade off. It's like it's like picking a sub class. It'd be really cool if we could get things on medic besides the medkit as well in a similar vein (not the armor kit)

I mean if you wanted to get wild you could give the armor kit to only medic lol

[hard valve]

I don't think it is, you overrate the armour

[merry whale]

Personally I feel that the medkit at some point will be nerfed and I am simply trying to make something fun to play around

[dry cliff]

Replace the medkit with it

[hard valve]

• when you're healing/reloading you'll have to repair armour ADD to that (so an other action without fighting)

[dry cliff]

Could probably put armor in the supply drops too

[merry whale]

Something reasonably balanced so we don't end up in a bad spot as of current but equally is fairly applicable since you & a fellow support could have both boxes

[hard valve]

Ending up 10s without my wepeon in my hands ready to fight, worst dead time

[dry cliff]

Yee, it's a risk

[hard valve]

put it in same boxes as ammo it's fine

[merry whale]

risk rewards

[hard valve]

it's not as rewarding

again, HP > Armour

[merry whale]

"Do I want to risk getting shot while patching my armor up so that I am more durable in the next fight"

[hard valve]

to make it more clear HP >>> Armour

[merry whale]

Okami I get your idea

[dry cliff]

What about it

[hard valve]

y y I was just putting a bit more force into the message

[merry whale]

I am assuming this will come with a damage/armor rework of some kind

[heavy magnet]

give the armor to engies

[merry whale]

Engineers have RPGs of 3 flavors & vehicle repair

[dry cliff]

I think engineers and support could have it, but support would have to give up his ammo kit (for a big one) and engineer could have to give up the rpg perhaps. Or maybe just the repair tool slot

[merry whale]

Repair tool is in both slots

[dry cliff]

Is it? I thought it was only in slot one

I must be blind lol, I never swap my rockets so I must've not noticed

[merry whale]

let me check myself

[heavy magnet]

its in both

i just looked

[dry cliff]

I'll believe it

[dry cliff]

Why is it in both slots anyway

How strange

[heavy magnet]

worlds fastest photoshop lol

[merry whale]

best guess is to let engineers always have one as a possibility

[dry cliff]

True

[hard valve]

dude is a machine

[heavy magnet]

🤖

[hard valve]

Engineer doesn't need any buffs, just let him keep repairing vehicles and shooting at vehicles like it was in BF it's always needed

[merry whale]

but yea, the engineer I feel already has some use cases even without vehicles (And if vehicles get buffed directly or indirectly, he'll only get more desired)

[dry cliff]

We need some kind of armor resupply. Giving it at the same time as ammo feels a bit strong in my opinion, so I think having to trade ammo for it is fair. If you're worried people won't pick it due to bandages, put those in the kit as well

[hard valve]

Atm repairing is not really meta because vehicles are bad, and RPG is use for infantry

so the engineer right now is litteraly not an engineer

[merry whale]

Engineer does have barbed wire access like support

But yea...

Barbed wire isn't the best in the world of C4 we have going

[dry cliff]

I just feel like the engineer only has the one way to help. It just makes it a really one note class like recon

[merry whale]

kinda

[heavy magnet]

lmao what if they gave u plates instead of bandages as support, youll neeed a medic to stop ur bleeding tho

[hard valve]

+10% MS, buff bipod back, armour repair => Support back in the game

[dry cliff]

But maybe armor isn't the solution to that currently

[merry whale]

RPG is multi use based on which rocket you use

[hard valve]

HEAT everytime

[dry cliff]

Oooo, maybe as each class you could take armor plates instead of bandages, or delicate how many of each you want (split up the total)

[hard valve]

I think you don't understand how bandage is needed in that game

[dry cliff]

Might be a cool way of doing it assuming some stuff gets shifted around eventually

[hard valve]

I'll say it again (not for you HG) HP >>> Armour

[heavy magnet]

i think i do

[merry whale]

So in a ideal world Frag would be your anti infantry and structure option , HEAT would be anti light vehicle with a good bit of ommph vs heavier stuff & tandems being the "I hate this A LOT" anti heavy

[hard valve]

[dry cliff]

I disagree on frag

[hard valve]

and vehicles would be more meta with more use of the repairing tool

[merry whale]

Which part or all together?

[dry cliff]

It should be the infantry option only. Barely any structure damage. Think btr shots

[hard valve]

the AoE of the BTR is the worst of all BTR in any games I've played in my whole life

[dry cliff]

I think heats being the primary all rounder (because you start with it), but best at structure removal would be best

[hard valve]

Litteraly needs like 7+ shoots with no direct shot

[dry cliff]

Referring to the wall damage

[hard valve]

[dry cliff]

It takes a few shots to open up a wall as much as a tank can usually

[hard valve]

Frag is not for structure, it's only infantry

it's in the name

[merry whale]

To clarify when I said the best at anti structure, I more meant dealing with guys in structures

should've made that more clear

[hard valve]

faster rocket, fewer ammo, bigger lethal dmg (could be curret RPG HEAT lethal AoE)

[merry whale]

aka you at worse blow a hole in a wall & than launch a second in to splash the room

[dry cliff]

Frag should be wide aoe, high damage at the center. But no structure damage basically. It wouldn't kill anyone on the other side

[merry whale]

at best you launch it through a window or insert gap here to hit inside

[dry cliff]

Or, use my idea to make frags a 4 round missile launcher lol

[hard valve]

I'm not even sure about the "faster rocket" because I'm actualy using RPG to hit 200m+ target behind window without the PSO scope

[merry whale]

with heat I would say make it a Cone effect rather than a sphereical

[hard valve]

So.. maybe same speed as the HEAT rn

[dry cliff]

Might be a good way to differentiate too

[hard valve]

actually it's suppose to be the opposite

RPG HEAT => Cone, Frag => "spherical"

[dry cliff]

I thought he just said that

[merry whale]

I said make heat a cone

[heavy magnet]

facts

[hard valve]

ah Ok, then yes

missread

[merry whale]

but effectively it would make different use cases & such

Which I enjoy that idea

tandem wise I suppose is the only one to ask about how to do it's damage area

[hard valve]

Also I just forget about that but

[dry cliff]

Well, either or. Armor kits would be cool. Maybe have the choice to split your self heals between bandages and armor would be neat (or just give all players armor packs depending on their backpack choice)

[hard valve]

Putting the Frag on the same dmg range/aoe that HEAT will just be same meta

because peopel really don't care that much about vehicles

will clean tanks then go back to frags

[merry whale]

keep in mind bandages are used for bleeds & revives as well

[heavy magnet]

make the belt do somthing by giving it armor storage stats

[hard valve]

so actually frag should be less efficient than the current HEAT

[heavy magnet]

cuz as of now belts dont have stats

[hard valve]

that's the meme

[merry whale]

currently I would say that is due to how much C4 is around mixed with other things

[hard valve]

they've an effect on handguns even if no stats

[merry whale]

most people have enough to kill a tank & than some

thus by extention, vehicles struggle due to most to all people having various AV methods that can quickly kill said vehicle

[heavy magnet]

how often do we thing about pistol mags tho?

[hard valve]

I use it a lot

Now it's viable

[merry whale]

it does on engineer

[heavy magnet]

1 gadget for tool belts

[hard valve]

it's not only because of that

it's also because vehicles suck ass and people don't even understand that, because they never played a decent BF game

[merry whale]

keep in mind the last part was "mixed with other things"

[hard valve]

so now their reference point is BBR

imagine

it's like playing wc3 reforged, and thinking ; damn it's beautifull

[heavy magnet]

beach buggy racing??

[merry whale]

but yea, currently Oki has added CoF to vehicles to limit their effective range

than mix in various other things

[hard valve]

normal balance to avoid spawncamping

[merry whale]

in a sense we got the same result