Blackhawk / KA60 - Feedback

[karmic cloak]

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'

[neon tartan]

Enjoyed the best with some ambient "fortunate son" playing via voicechat

[autumn scarab]

It's not perfect unless gunner screams "get some"

Anyways, Tail Rotor HP needs a buff, like 2-3 times more HP

And less overall hp

This fatass can take 3 AP rounds

AND 5 HEAT RPG'S

[neon tartan]

true since stuff in aviation is because physics much more lighter and fragile than groundvehicles, it should die faster and not ending up competing with tanks in who can take the most damage

[finite anvil]

Tail rotor is a bitch

You will always be shot down because the tail rotor hp is too low

[plain roost]

The Blackhawk is more pleasant to fly the the Russian Ka60. More strudy so to speak. However you cannot heal the pilot from F6 unless you are moving forward at speed or in a dive. It's very finicky with how the healing works in the Blackhawk and makes it so it's not truely equal to the Ka60.

[autumn scarab]

Most vehicles are not equal for some reason

BTR is better than LAV, same as T90 is better than M1 Abrams, even tho they have identical stats

[plain roost]

I like the minute diffrences in the vehicles which gives them character but this one in particular is too large imo

[noble oyster]

Coupled with faster acceleration otherwise it's still going to be APC fodder in any drop attempt.

FYI

And yeah, game not real life, but still the gap in game is massive.

[autumn scarab]

BH with bigger speed would be OP, zooming around map basically untouched

Better acceleration is okay-ish imo

[noble oyster]

A middleground could be giving it left shift boost on a limited charge.

So you can have a chance to gtfo from bad situations without being universally more mobile.

Ah. Also, the repair speed for it at base is painfully slow.

[plain roost]

I figure we should use this thread in general to talk about the transport helicopter since people confuse the Ka60 with the Blackhawk ingame anyway.

After 350+ hours flying the the transport helicopters in battlebit on both RU and US teams here is my revised feedback

The helicopters have far too much health. It can take multiple rpgs and 2+ tank rounds to fully destroy a helicopters. The Helicopter will be destroyed on the Second AP round from the tank however if you repair inbetween shots you can survive the second shot but you will be on fire. The exception being Tandem rpgs which will cruelly 1 shot helicopters with full health (though I am fine with this). Often if I am chasing down an enemy heli with my own, both my gunners could be firing for a full 60+ seconds and still not even kill the chopper since their health pool is so high and they eventually drop off their troops before being killed by us.

The pilot and crewmates are too vulnerable to being shot out by ground fire through the window. I have gone multiple games where my chopper never actually got shot down but I get sniped out 5 times over the course of the game and have to respawn back on the heli after a crewmate took over the F1 seat. This is goofy nonsense and currently the biggest problem with the helicopters. If the windows were made to be more bullet resistant to protect the pilot and coopilot (aka meatsheild) then this would be fantastic. 100% the best change you could make to the helicopters overall is to address pilot sniping. Being able to bandage at anytime could also be useful instead of only being able to bandage when you're bleeding

There is no way to tell how much health you have left. You have the visual cue of the helicopter shaking and smoking to gauge its health, only that the smoke/flame is not visible to you if you are moving forward because the smoke is inside the chopper. If you are still, the smoke flame will be visible but a helicopter should never be still. Moving the smoke/fire so that the pilot could see it in the front would be a great help.

Only the Ka60 can heal the crewmates from the middle seats. Nessesary for a successful helicopter team, you need a crew medic to heal people when they get sniped. Currently you can heal the pilot from the F6 seat in the RU chopper but this does not work the same in the US Helicopter. You need to be flying forward at speed or in a dive to heal the pilot in the Blackhawk which makes it unequal to the Ka60

The miniguns do too little damage. The miniguns have even less damage than the weakest smgs in this game. My gunners record 6+ hitmarkers on a single person and still not killing him because the dps is so low that he can quite litterally outheal us with the medicbox. Often when you find a medic out in the open they will just whip out their medic box and start dancing maniacly. The gunners litterally cannot even kill them unless they damage them enough to the point he needs to bandage and cannot heal himself with the medic box. Medic healmut alone is an extra 2 more blue hitmarkers on an already high bullet to kill gun. Exo suit armor seems to be 10+ if they can get a bandage in. Furthermore since the miniguns do not have splash damage they can scarcely ever score a hit unless I line them up frontwards (which is how any competent transport/gunship pilot is supposed to fly). If there was an increase in damage, this would also fix the problem of helicopters having too much base health to begin with. Splash damage on the miniguns would be well recieved, but is not nessesary if the damage is increased.

Splash damage from APC rounds destroying the tail rotor. Big greavience with this. I will congragulate any infantry that can score a hit on my tail rotor with a skillyfully shot rpg but for the APC they don't even need a direct hit as seeminly the splash damage from a nearby hit can destroy the tail rotor. If their was a tiny bit more HP added to the tail rotor this would be fine.

Teammates placing C4 inside the chopper. I have died a few times to an rpg/ tank shell fired at us that detonates C4 that my teammate has placed in the middle seat. They can't really throw it outside the helicopter because it just keeps sticking to the helicopter.

Copping verbal abuse from teammates. They will spawn on you and demand you fly a gauntlet of tanks and APCs to drop them off somewhere and demand you let down the rope 200m in the air so they can swing around like monkeys which is immersion breaking to say the least.

People not getting off the rope. I have an extream, deep, profound, absolute hatred for what I call "Rope hangers". People who are simply too slow to repel down the ropes and just hang there while someones lining up a Tandem rocket against me. When I'm in the camera view watching them just hang there I cannot dodge RPGs and assess my surroundings for threats. It would seem many people don't realize you can jump off the rope with the jump key. If there was a rope repelling tutorial in the shooting range this help a lot.

Spotting in the helicopter. Before the last few patched you could invite competent gunners into your squad by telling them to press ENTER and join your squad. This will allow you to share and see the pings your squad do which is hugely important finding and lining up targets. In the current patch, you cannot change squads while you are alive which is absolutely devistating. I would also like to see a new feature added in regards to spotting. I would like any spots made by people inside the helicopter (or other vehicle) to be visible to everyone else inside the helicopter regardless if they are in the squad or not. This would be hugely effective in coordinating between gunner/pilot/crewmates insead of having one guy just spraying randomly across the map while I have a whole squad lined up infront of me.

No purpose of the F2 coopilot seat. We call this the "meatsheild" seat, since all it does is protect the gunners in the back. There is ZERO purpose to this seat. You don't even have a center riticle dot to help spot vehicles. If there was functionality added into the F2 seat like maybe spotting in the tank or the F2 seat takes over as pilot once the F1 pilot gets sniped out this would be great.

Vehicle hunting in the transport helicopters.

Adapt and overcome. For many weeks now I have been hunting all sorts of armor vehicles with the rpgs in the F11 and F12 seats. The transport helicopter is a fantastic missile boat platform and is able to contest armor ingame by simply closing the distance under fire and hovering above them out of their elevation. The side seats F11 & F12 are able to get a very clear shot and fire close to downwards with their heat rockets to kill vehicles/armor. While I'm sure in real life the backblast from and RPG would kill everyone inside the helicopter this is such an insanely fun way to fly the helicopter. The only problem with this is that sometimes the rockets will hit the side of the helicopter when moving forward at speed. This is probably due to latency between pilot and RPGer. If you are flying slow and lining up your shots for the RPGer it seems to be fine and will not hit the side of the helicopter. Seeing as the miniguns are so completely dogshit this is a good alternative playstyle that is deadly efficent when you have a skilled crew who can pull off 200+ meter shots with the RPG.

The Transport helicopter vs the Littlebird

The Helicopter is a fanstatic vehicle to contest enemy littlebirds but it is not quite an even fight. The littlebird's miniguns do such an obcsene ammount of damage in such a short ammount of time with it's blazingly fast miniguns that you can get insta sniped with a single pass across the window and begin freefalling to you death. As for the transport Helicopter's miniguns, because their infantry damage is so low you wills scacely ever actually pilot snipe the enemy littlebird, rather you would destroy him from vehicle damage. This differs from the littlebird in that the littlebird will kill the crew members but not destroy the helicopter but the transport helicopter will destroy the littlebird but not snipe out the pilot. What I would like to see is at the very least an equality/parity between the two vechile's miniguns seeing as they are based on the same gun IRL.

[noble oyster]

Would be nice if copilot could also access the bottom camera, so they could help by letting you know when everyone got off the rope or about any threats that show up below.

[autumn scarab]

That's a lot of words

[plain roost]

Another thing, Height is actually tied to whatever is below you so if you fly over a large hill or even over the cooling tower in valley you will get 50+ more height. When you finish flying over this you will drop down fast since you've exceded the ceiling height which makes for a choppy and akward flight. This makes 1v1s exspecially interesting when in the transport helicopter since you could both be at max height but one will still be higher than the other since they are over a hill. In this game height = advantage since you can see the enemy pilot more clearly and you yourself are more protected.

[ripe sphinx]

Blackhawk wins 99% of the time with 2 able gunners and a repair tool

[vestal belfry]

I see your grievances with the rope hangers and raise you the US army standard, move to live, fuck the guys on the rope if you need too.

as for the guns, a make them hit like a 249, and make them somewhat accurate up to 200 meters. at that distance it would be nice if most bullets would be able to hit a target sitting still instead of killing the grass 15 feet around him.

[ripe sphinx]

Nah if they are made better than they are people will start crying for nerf like they are for littlebird

Waah waah i died 2 times a match to a little bird

Lmao

[vestal belfry]

Yeah, personally I think I've died maybe twice total to a LB.

I do think the guns need to be somewhat viable other than making noise. now most times you don't need to take cover or even change directions and you will still live, especially if you heal just in case.

[ripe sphinx]

Fr ive died like most 2 times a game to a lb

[tulip zephyr]

Problem there is the disproportionately amount of effort you have to take to destroy one vehicle, you need 4 people and a vehicle of your own to just destroy one helicopter. Even then, little bird pilots can still snipe you out of the cockpit.

[ripe sphinx]

Ye i dont think thats a problem as both teams get an armed littlebird tho

And some parts of the game should be team oriented

Wait lmao no littlebird thread

[tulip zephyr]

Not both teams, take wakistan, you have the armed lb in the center, pilot runs up to it, and then goes 186-0

[ripe sphinx]

Yes both have an equal chance

Besides 9/10 its about 100/0 not 200

[vestal belfry]

armored AA emplacements when

[tulip zephyr]

Not exactly helping your point, and both teams don't have an equal chance. Once the LB is taken, the opposing team now has a significant disadvantage when trying to push towards the obj and take it to get another LB to spawn.

Hell. I've seen a team cap the point and an enemy pilot run up and steal the heli, pilots team then took the point fairly easily

[ripe sphinx]

I dont need help my point cuz im in a clan where we have competent crews and just rpg the lb from a blackhawk

[vestal belfry]

nothing armed should spawn in the actual map I think, besides maybe manned humvees/Tigers.

[tulip zephyr]

Again, disproportionate effort being displayed, it takes a clan to destroy a LB. Not everyone has that luxury.

Back to blackhawk tho, miniguns on it definitely need a buff imo

[ripe sphinx]

I would agree on that they basically nerf guns

But the people would cry if any vehicle was good

[vestal belfry]

nerfs lead to more nerfs

[tulip zephyr]

I think less people would cry if it would take a crew for it to work.

[vestal belfry]

buff instead of nerf

[tulip zephyr]

If a vehicle takes coordination to be effective and multiple players manning multiple spots it's less likely for it to be overpowered often. Especially in random lobbies.

There are just more areas for one of the crew members to fall flat, thus leading to a less OP vehicle

[ripe sphinx]

Also with the blackhawk, lets say with a team of 5 we get 200 kills between us (an extremely good game) 200/5 is only 40 each which we would get more than on the ground

[tulip zephyr]

Exactly

Plus it took skill in cooperating and communication to get to that level.

Not just flying around in a glorified freecam with dual miniguns

[ripe sphinx]

Lol lb be playing minecraft spectator mode

[tulip zephyr]

LB is way too tanky for what is basically a fishbowl with an engine

[vestal belfry]

"But it's one hit by RPGS"

[tulip zephyr]

Blackhawk I can understand taking some small arms fire, the pilots seats are armoured up to 23 mm aa

[tulip zephyr]

Not worried about the RPGs, talking mostly about small arms.

[ripe sphinx]

I cant lie the deagle is the best aa gun it does like 30/40? Vehicle damage

[tulip zephyr]

Recently got changed, I think the top revolver does more DMG to vehicles

Went and double checked, deagle and RSH now deal same DMG, 30. #dev-wip message

[ripe sphinx]

Ye it was between those 2

[noble oyster]

Mods, crush his nuts

[noble oyster]

They are decent with good coordination, problem is most randoms don't have that and most don't even realise that holding LMB when it's overheated gives them trash RoF

I would prefer letting the gun straight up stop shooting when overheated so people get the message, then that would give room for a lil' buff to its effectiveness.

Something like giving the projectiles a larger hitbox would be sensible. Unlike AoE it won't straight up murder groups of people but it will at least more reliably hit the people that just stand there looking at you.

Other tweaks like velocity/damage/range would make it more effective against other vehicles which it already is plenty good at.

[noble oyster]

Alternatively, letting it break walls down and cut trees would also make it less useless against anyone who isn't completely exposed.

[autumn scarab]

LB isn't tanky at all. For a combat vehicle, not transport, it is a paper. Perfect example of glass cannon.

[noble oyster]

Definitely not tanky but not a glass cannon either. It's not like you're immediately set on fire the moment someone opens fire on you.

This BH thread though. So.

[tulip zephyr]

Maybe it's the way I see pilots playing it, retreating to base at the first sign of damage that makes it feel tanky. If every time you start shooting at the LB it's at full health, it makes dumping an LMG belt into it seem worthless.

[pastel minnow]

This is BH thread

[autumn scarab]

That's a problem, but different from tankiness. LB is indeed extremly mobile.

[plain roost]

You did not read my post did you. Repair tool means nothing when everyone gets sniped out by the littlebird.

[plain roost]

Your probably right. That's a good doctrine. While I understand that it's a transport helicopter first and formost I feel quite guilty if I fail to successfully drop people off and kill them instead by cutting the rope.

[noble oyster]

Tbh fall damage is a bit too punishing. Could extend non-lethal range a bit more and make it so you get "knocked out" instead (like when helicopter crash).

So still a bad idea in combat but at least wont outright kill your guys if you miscalculate a lil bit.

[plain roost]

This is a good point. Sometimes they can just hide behind a tree and be completely immune to hundreds of bullets being sprayed around them.

Big probelm with the transport helicopters now. The repair tool is too damn powerful! I had a game on Wineparadise and could not kill or be killed by the enemy transport. We were just endlessly engaging each other ever few minutes then returning back to base for ammo. Pilot sniping was the only way to win the engament.

[noble oyster]

Minor QoL thing but would be nice if we had a small indicator next to seats keys F1-F12 indicating whether they are positioned on the left or right side so you can orient yourself appropriately with a quick glance.

[finite bear]

dude please just nerf its health or buff vehicle shots' damage against it

shit shouldn't tank 3 AP shots and still fly away

[umbral sinew]

Yeah but one AP shot to the tail and it’s done

Even one 30mm sometimes

[umbral sinew]

Just let the copilot do something 😭

[wooden scaffold]

Copilot should be able to heal pilot

[finite bear]

copilot should be able to override main pilot if he's dead

[ripe sphinx]

And co pilot seat will be useful

[foggy lance]

vehicle thread got closed cuz it became a dumpster fire discussing lb 💀

[autumn scarab]

Forbidden flying egg fr

[noble oyster]

Ye. Nerf total HP buff tail.

[noble oyster]

Oh yeah maybe I've not been paying attention but I don't think we get a beep when we're on fire? Tanks/APC do, kinda useful since you don't really see the flames.

[lusty basalt]

Agreed to that, but in general, what I feel with the transport helis in general is
I feel like the side guns could have more damage, even if they remain as inaccurate as they are, so they can actually be used well for cqb heli on heli and heli on infantry defense
Keeping them to upclose use and mostly defensive use because of the low precision, but not being severely underpowered to the point they can't really defend the helicopter up close

[noble oyster]

I really don't think damage is the main problem. You can in fact kill people reasonably fast when you're close enough to hit all the shots. Problem is you have to be way too close for that.

I think everyone should watch this vid as a reference of what a good gunner can achieve. It is clear that the gun is not extremely effective against infantry, but starting from 3:50 you can see some nice Wakistan footage doing close passes where people die reasonably fast to an accurate burst of the minigun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyzmeeDlY1I

Honestly watching it again makes me wary of overtuning the gun with all the proposed changes. It's quite effective in the right hands. Maybe simply giving it uncapped turn speed would be enough to make it feel less janky when aiming.

[astral harness]

You know what else HEAT can hit for 20? That's right, a tank side armor. Nerf HP pls

[lusty basalt]

I'd rather it have some less obtuse to use guns and less hp, would make most gunners better at defending the helis while making them need to rely on them more not to be shot out the sky

Too many helis just either never get destroyed, or get pilot sniped

[noble oyster]

Pilot sniping isn't too much of a problem in transport helis imo, an attentive crew can recover from it relatively easily

[lusty basalt]

Hmmm, I can see that yeah

I'm mostly just kinda meh about how underwhelming the guns are a lot of the time
Like sure they should not be LB level at all but 99% of the time you're better off with a rpg on the side, ive got 5 hit markers on someone a few times at close-ish ranges with nothing happening

When it's a transport heli showing up and I'm infantry I can virtually always ignore it and just take pockshots at the infantry when they go down the rope

Minigun fire is legitimately less worrying than infantry fire even when the infantry is way farther away

[noble oyster]

To be fair how often do you think you're being targeted by a capable pilot+gunner combo AND are the biggest threat they can see from up there so that they would prioritise you. I would like to run some tests with BH enjoyers and see what's the best performance we can squeeze out of it.

Also, probably the main reason that keeps me from getting to minigun-effective ranges with the BH is the fear of APCs.

[lusty basalt]

Oh, that's definitely part of it, but when 99% of the time a vehicle performs poorly, maybe the best to do is make it overall more friendly to most players

Since atm it's a very high bar to get results out of it, when in general it incredibly underperforms

[noble oyster]

We don't want to end up being the next Little Bird tho. I would say that a slightly faster acceleration and uncapped minigun turning speed are reasonable small tweaks that may result in a surprisingly improved experience across all skill ranges.

[foggy lance]

imo blackhawk should be on the more powerful side compared to other vehicles cuz it interacts with so many people at once requiring 3-4 people to operate + transporting infantry compared to Lb that is just single player experience

[noble oyster]

That's the thing tho. It's already potentially extremely powerful if used to its full potential. Any changes to it must be careful not to push that upper end too much.

I like the lower HP higher speed approach, precisely because it makes it less viable for a fully crewed BH to rain hell on any particular area for an extended time. But it also helps a minimally crewed BH be more effective at its core tasks which are providing transportation and supporting fire.

[foggy lance]

supporting fire is only good at support if the enemy is scared of it, rn miniguns are just terrible. I agree with hp and speed change especially now that repair is 98%

[lusty basalt]

For real I'm more scared of 2 guys in a quadbike with an RPG than a blackhawk

The true artillery vehicle

The quadbike

[foggy lance]

littlebird transport is probably even scarier with rpg lol

[tulip zephyr]

If a vehicle requires more coordination to be efficient and effective, it makes sense that the skill ceiling should be higher.

[foggy lance]

requiring coordination already makes the skill ceiling really high

[wooden scaffold]

Little bird transport /w rpg is scary for everyone involved
Pilot and gunners scared because little bird is weak and flesh is weaker.
Target scared because being hit by RPGs from the sky.

[foggy lance]

real

[noble oyster]

Skill ceiling and maximum effectiveness are separate issues tho. Just convincing a handful of people to sit in your heli and shoot at stuff below isn't particularly hard or skillful with how tanky the thing is right now, really threatened only by APCs.

Nerfing HP and buffing mobility would raise the skill ceiling while reducing its maximum potential impact. But what it would do is flatten the crew vs effectiveness curve a bit mainly by allowing better use of the miniguns.

The end result is that you have a vehicle with a more consistent power level, so people in general know what to expect from it.

[lusty basalt]

Idk, buffing mobility sounds good in theory but in practice you only end up making the helicopter's movements more erratic and harder to account for while shooting

It's one thing when the guns are fixed and the pilot themselves can use them, but when you have to rely on a pilot to let you engage targets, things can get real stressful

[noble oyster]

Yes, you are not supposed to shoot on the move. The intended purpose of providing improved acceleration is to let you perform drops and close air support i.e. hovering around the area, while being able to rapidly pull out when RPGs and APC rounds start flying your way.

Currently getting zeroed in by an APC while dropping people off is almost certainly a death sentence.

[lusty basalt]

Which most pilots I've seen don't really do, ive seen a lot of folks spend more time returning to base and maneuvering so much they don't give gunners half a second to engage anything atm

[noble oyster]

Well, you can't balance against the lowest common denominator. I'm sure there were also people getting a negative KD with the Vector while it was still busted.

[noble oyster]

But also, the reason you need to maneuver so much in the first place is that you can't afford to lose that inertia.

Speed is life and this is doubly true in the BH where gaining it back is much harder than with the LB.

[karmic cloak]

Blackhawk / KA60 - Feedback

[plain roost]

The thing about increasing the speed and mobility would mean that the gunners have an even smaller window of oppitunity to kill someone. With my flying style, turning those miniguns is like an arm workout in itself.

Also I'll say it now cause why not: Left mouse gunning on the miniguns is far more accuracte, consistant and ultimately more lethal against infantry than right mouse zoom gunning. It's just a strange quirk.

[noble oyster]

Not sure I agree. First, I want to emphasize I'm specifically arguing for improved acceleration and nothing else, top speed could stay the same. Now, just because you have that improved mobility doesn't mean you need to be constantly zooming around doing crazy loops. Instead doing low swoops which provide your gunners with good target access and a stable, predictable trajectory, would be far more viable than it is currently. Right now the intertia is way too much to try and do close passes without a lot of unobstructed space around you OR by greatly reducing the speed, which is never a good idea.

So essentially my goal here is to tweak the handling such that we can let the gunners have more windows of opportunity. Together with the HP nerfs, which I think are warranted to avoid the risk of letting it be an oppressive presence that can just circle an area indefinitely (as it kind of currently can if there's no APCs or RPGs in the area).

[plain roost]

I litterally can't even kill enemy choppers if they have a repair tool. This shit needs to be reverted.

[noble oyster]

It's fine for ground vehicles. Definitely too high for air vehicles. Alternatively, it could get some sort of cooldown or limited ammo.

Allowing repairs on the move is generally just not a good idea though. It forces the vehicle to be much squishier to prevent it from being overly tanky when optimally used, which then means its crap whenever you're not having someone be your repair monkey which is not a role you can reliably find people willing to perform.

[plain roost]

Alternatively, it could get some sort of cooldown or limited ammo.
That would be fine. Though imagine someone with two repair tools. That would be nuts.

In Oceania there is always a keen repairtool man. Before I think it was 2k points but now it's up in the 5k+ range

[autumn scarab]

Repair tool change?

[plain roost]

It repairs to 98% and seems to be unlimited. It doesn't run out. This means that the repair tool quite litterally outheals the dps of the miniguns.

[noble oyster]

My understanding is that for every instance of damage, you can only recover 98% of the total HP lost right?

[autumn scarab]

Good. It should repair to 100% imo

This was EXTREMELY needed change

[plain roost]

I wouldn't have a clue how it works specifically but I know that I can't kill or even be killed by the enemy transport because we are both at max health

[autumn scarab]

Just lower BH hp or make it unable to repair when flying

[noble oyster]

Meh. I think it could use a better separation. You should be able to repair all small arms damage, maybe 90% of minigun damage but only 70% of RPG damage.

As previously mentioned, I think it's important to try and make vehicles (anything really) deliver a relatively consistent experience and if you had 100% repairs it would be a huge difference if you have multiple engis with you or not.

With repair caps the effectiveness of stacking repairs wouldn't get so wild.

[plain roost]

Transport helicopter 1v1s, which were the most fun thing about the transport helicopter, has been unplesant since the repair tool update. You can only win through killing the pilot/crew members now. For randoms who are not experienced in the gunner role, this is nigh impossible.

[noble oyster]

Would it be safe to say that we have a wide consensus on the position that we are willing to lose some tankiness and sustain, of which the vehicle already has more than it realistically needs, for buffs in other areas such as handling and less vulnerable tail rotors?

[plain roost]

I would gladly trade 2/5 of the tansport helicopters health for more infantry/vehicle damage any day. I definitely beleive it is too high. Immersion breakingly so since it's so tanky.

[noble oyster]

Cool. I don't know what the "behind the scenes" process is for these feedback threads, but I think it would be nice if we can come up with a list of some core changes most people here would like to see so that our suggestions can be more effectively communicated to the devs.

Like, maybe we can leave the thread open for the next couple of weeks and then ask the mods to temporarily close it and put up a list with suggestions that we can vote on(?). Just an idea.

[plain roost]

I propose as the first change and the most important change: Stopping pilot snipes.
Windows to be bullet resistance, can bandage without having to be bleeding, can bandage fellow crewmates from middle seats.

[noble oyster]

Do you think OHKs on the pilots should be removed entirely or that they should be kept only for some edge case like an M200 headshot with +dmg barrel?

[plain roost]

I heard that the snipers do more damage at long range. I don't want to deprive snipers of an epic long range sniper shot against a pilot, so I'd say keep 1 hit kill headshots but only at uber long ranges. I have a feeling the m200 can body shot anyway too.

The other crewmates are fairgame. Sorry gunners lmao

[stable comet]

Poorly designed is how I would sum it up.

Incredibly tanky but their rotor can be 1 tapped so they're simultaneously weak as hell.

Nerf their health. Remove the stupid tail rotor mechanic. Buff their guns. Nerf their rope by like 10-15% so they need to be lower to the ground to drop off troops. When a helicopter is lethally damage it ALWAYS tailspins to the floor and explodes UNLESS it was hit by a tandem or tank where it'll instead explode on impact. Also do not let people repair while driving in it, just stupid as fuck design.

[dark flax]

@stable comet has earned the Tier I Member role!

[tulip zephyr]

1 shot pilot snipes should remain a thing. Especially if you hit a headshot. If you're that desperate not to die as a pilot, play support and use the exo armor. But if you continually buff the pilots seat it's eventually going to get overwhelming, it's already annoying enough to shoot the pilot from below adding extra armor is just going to make it overwhelming.

[obsidian coral]

as long as the miniguns make infantry afraid for their lives and don't hit like fucking wet noodles im ok with the heli glass being weak, part of the problem rn is that snipers have no fear standing there and lining up a pilot or gunner head shot cause they door guns don't do shit to protect the chopper

[lusty basalt]

That's pretty much it for me too.
I get that transport helis shouldn't be much of an offensive tool either, but as it stands the lack of punch on the miniguns doesn't make them very good at protecting themselves and giving supporting fire to deploying and deployed infantry either

[plain roost]

In regards to fire support when circiling an objective it's more like a flying distraction for your team then actually helping them out. Only on about the 10th circle around say, B on Sandysunset do you start killing in mass. By then you are bleeding out.

Guns definitely need to be more lethal

[plain roost]

Not a single day has passed since the patch and I already miss the old enemy littlebird lmao. That thing was so lethal and interesting to fight, now it's a pea shooter. Can't even contest the blackhawk.

[astral harness]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Still kill BH with LB for me

[autumn scarab]

Are you the real mank? Or just an Impostor?

[astral harness]

I am the real mank

[plain roost]

Had some guy get like 40k points just from repairing/gunner assist kills in the transport heli on Valley. Whoever he was, he was content to just chill back there with a repair tool in siclence going 0-0 all game racking up heaps of exp points.

[wooden scaffold]

Skill issue that nobody on your team sniped him or the pilot

Or RPGd the helicopter

[autumn scarab]

Man contributed while not being"OP" or nuance

Just like medics that only revive/heal

Leave him be

[stable comet]

Less of a LB issue and more of the fact that BH have SO much fucking raw HP it's completely ridiculous. It basically needs a 30-50% hp nerf, removal of being able to repair while riding, and the removal of the tail rotor weakness.

I had a video showing how much damage an AUG does and it's like 1/8-1/10 of the total health of a BH with a full mag. It's why everyone always focuses on the tail rotor or pilot.

[obsidian coral]

"8 people needing to shoot a large transport helicoptor with more than 8 people in it and requiring a good pilot gunners an angi and a medic to be truly usefull is too much plz nerf" "i wanna wipe heli by hittin its underside with my assault rifle/ MG"

[craggy berry]

Yes, the blackhawk feels VERY slugish rn

[craggy berry]

keep speed cap as it is (if there is a cap) but increase acceleration by like, 1/4th

[craggy berry]

I agree, blackhawks and Ka60s have way to little damage, you cannot\kill infantry with it, veichles, or other aircraft. Im not sure if it got nerfed at any point, but with it being slower, and dealing like peeshooter damage, its not as fun anymore.

[plain roost]

I think it has always been terrible. The only thing that has changed is the health since aparently in the beta a tank AP shot could 1 shot it so they increased the max health.

[noble oyster]

Damage is not the problem, it's the lack of an accurate sight + capped turning rate for the gun

If you can get hits reliably on infantry, they go down as fast as with any regular gun

Coupled with the spread and travel time at range, forces you to have a good pilot and gunner combo to be a threat at all

[plain roost]

That's not true at all. The bullets to kill is insanely high. It's higher than the weakest smgs

[noble oyster]

If you're trying to take potshots from the ceiling maybe

Is there any trustworthy data about this anywhere?

All I know is I've gotten assists for 25 with a single hit marker so that's at least what it takes

[plain roost]

I'm not a gunner so I can't say, but when I used to play medic and got zipped by a bullet the ammount I had to heal with the medic box was minimal. Like maybe 1/8th of the health bar. There is a significant damage range drop off with the miniguns. Only very close is it less bullets to kill, maybe 4.

[ripe sphinx]

Meanwhile rpg on f12/11

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

[astral harness]

Look at em go weeeee

[autumn scarab]

Please, for the love of God, change the HUD colour

[finite bear]

eh

HUD colors are preference honestly

I used bright color HUD because I don't want to change HUD every time I play night

[plain roost]

Buff the damage of the transport helicopter's miniguns.

[plain roost]

Also make armor more susceptible to damage when shot from the top. It's very strange hitting a tank for 10+ damage while they're on fire with a top down shot.

[finite bear]

please add will be very funni and balanced!!!!

[plain roost]

Definitely. Hydra rockets could then replace the unrealistic RPG7s on the side already doing the job of killing armor.

[ripe sphinx]

This is like the 69th time u have said this already

[lusty basalt]

they hated Slazenger for Slazenger told them the truth

i don't care about their precision, they should be good at support from close range

sure, make the transport helis less freakishly tanky to compensate for that, but just in general, they feel underwhelming on both ends

[plain roost]

Broke my kill record with 90+ kills on wakistan in the transport helicopter. It was an absolute slaughter. RPG'd all the armor and contested/supported backcaps hard on the cliffs.

[vestal belfry]

ah yes, lets just keep allowing launchers to be used in helicopters, surely this is perfect balance.

[plain roost]

Helicopters are the victim of armor. I'm just evening the odds.

[autumn scarab]

Those type of ideas makes me want to stop supporting buffs to tail rotor

[plain roost]

Tail rotor should always be one shot, just no non direct hits.

[autumn scarab]

That would be impossible atm

APC have splash on L vehicle dmg, same as HEAT, so buffing HP to make it 2 shot is only way, unless Oki can make some magic and make it ignore splash

[obsidian coral]

reduce heli HP so that tank AP rounds 2 shot to the body, remove tail rotor and cause the heli spin out mechanic to play whenever it takes dmg that could have killed it, this might be hard to do but make it so that only 1 engi can repair the heli at a time while inside of it, make the miniguns an actual threat (either that's lowering spread, increasing dmg, adding some sort of splash, etc) but prevent people from using RPGs and C4 while inside the heli to prevent the bs where a heli hovers over a boat or a tank and kills it easy.

[astral harness]

Nah, give it 60% less health, and 100% more acceleration

Give the tail rotor a HP value of sth

[vestal belfry]

helicopters can be flown without a tail rotor, give the pilot a chance to control the thing rather than it be an instant kill

[lusty basalt]

honestly, i'd love this but with a minigun damage buff
not a accuracy buff or whatever, just a damage buff so it can more reliably kill things at close range
it would still be risky to try being aggressive with it, but it would stop feeling underwhelming bot to use and to have used against you

hell even with a accuracy nerf along the damage buff to limit range

as long as within a reasonable distance, you'd feel worried when a blackhawk started firing at you, i'll be happy

right now i'm more scared of a guy with a unica 6 than a guy in a minigun

[plain roost]

It's never easy to kill boats or armor. You have to close the distance under fire and hover circle perfectly. If there is more than one you get crossfired or worse, an APC will use a hill for elevation and get a verticle shot. The transport helicopter will always die to the second AP shot unless repaired inbetween shots, in which case it will die to the thrid.

C4 also cannot be thrown out as it will stick inside the heli and detonate when fired upon killing everyone.

[obsidian coral]

please for the love of god why dfo rockets and apc/tank shells fling helis around

[autumn scarab]

They do that to everything

Vehicles physics is just bad

Tanks/apc's get slowed/stopped , or boosted in speed by RPG hits

APC spins around when shoot at by other apc

Jeeps slow down when hit by apc

[astral harness]

Because vehicles suck

Just like how vehicle collision is shit in other shooters

Arma, foxhole

[autumn scarab]

Then there is battlefield where vehicles are perfect

[ripe sphinx]

Ap rounds would never two shot irl aphe fair enough, but u realise abrams ap irl is sabot which makes like an inch hole

[wooden scaffold]

It's going at 1850 m/s
It's going to make more than an inch hole just from the shrapnel.

[autumn scarab]

Wouldn't apsfds over pen thin skin of aircraft? And create basically no spalling, only destroying what was in direct line of travel

[lusty basalt]

Overpen isn't really an issue for a tungsten rod flying at almost 2 kilometers per second

[wooden scaffold]

It would but it would still throw off a good amount of shrapnel

[lapis root]

I'd say it would be a significant emotional event when a tungsten dart just went through your heli at almost 2km/s

[vestal belfry]

emotional yes, problematic? depending on what it hits on its way through, might not do much other than make a hole.

[autumn scarab]

I am curious what would happen if such round flew through passenger compartment and didn't hit anything. Would preasure harm occupants?

[jaunty otter]

The pressure wouldn’t do much of anything to the occupants. They would be fine as long as they weren’t hit by the projectile or any fragments.

You can fire a .50BMG past a house of cards and it won’t fall down.

[autumn scarab]

That I am aware of, but I have never thought about few kilograms metal dart going few times the speed of sound

[vestal belfry]

if the compartment is not sealed it likely wouldn't do anything but make em deaf

[plain roost]

I survived 4 AP shots once in quick succession from having what must of been 4+ people in the back repairing. Killed the enemy tank though before bugging out against the other two safezone camping ones.

[autumn scarab]

3 times HP as AP dmg goes hard

[craggy berry]

that...

shouldn't be toooo hard

[autumn scarab]

Buffing HP or make it immune to splash?

[craggy berry]

oh uh

immune to splash

!!!

[autumn scarab]

Maybe, I don't know shit about programing

[craggy berry]

I only tinkered in unity but it should just be checking what type of damage if it was hit by, if damage = splash, damage = lowered or removed or something idk

[autumn scarab]

Tho with APC terrible accuracy and low velocity, imo, buffing HP is better option

[craggy berry]

not magic, probably would just be a BS solution

[autumn scarab]

Makes it harder, but still possible, while direct hits would be much harder

[craggy berry]

APC has the splash though, should be a huge damage reduction or tail rotor buff or something

[autumn scarab]

Tail rotor buff is a given, the problem is how

[vestal belfry]

take away the instant kill. let the pilots skill decide whether they make it back to base or not. and instead of just blowing up on low health, add the spin and crash there instead

[plain roost]

It's fine as is.

[vestal belfry]

the unkillable tank in the sky is ok as is?

[plain roost]

The tail rotor is fine. I dislike your suggestion.
It's possible to fly in a way that protects your tail rotor from apc and tank shots so I dislike the idea of giving the tail rotor HP. I only want it to survive splash damage.

[vestal belfry]

where did I ever say anything about tail rotor HP?

[plain roost]

take away the instant kill

[vestal belfry]

Tail rotor destroyed = instant dead chopper

did you not know that?

[plain roost]

Yes, as intended. It's good like that.

It doesn't need to have more health.

[vestal belfry]

lol

if you notice I am actually talking about the thing after it's destroyed

[plain roost]

I don't understand unfortunately.

[vestal belfry]

if you didn't know, choppers can be flown without those tail rotors, with great difficulty sure, but pilots can do it.

so instead of "tail rotor gone = dead chopper", the pilot can pull off some maneuvers if good enough and make it to a safer area/back to base. and instead of just "0 hp = blown up chopper", change the crash animation to happen then instead.

[plain roost]

If I chase down an enemy transport and kill them I want them to explode and die. Not just spin out and drop their troops.

1v1s are the best thing about the transports in the game

[vestal belfry]

if you chase down an enemy transport you aren't the one killing it.

[plain roost]

Yeah I'm the pilot yo.

[vestal belfry]

your chopper ain't killing it either, unless its an RPG in your backseat.

which lets be honest, is not something that's gonna stay in game long term.

[plain roost]

My brothet in christ. I have killed countless helicopter and tanks and APCs from the helicopter. I litterally slaughter everything with the two gunners and rpg seats.

[vestal belfry]

yeah, those RPG seats are what actually doing the killing. and that's not a thing that's gonna stick around. remove that, your transport 1v1s are just gonna be peashooters dinking each other until a pilot gets sniped.

[plain roost]

You are playing a completely diffrent game than me and I won't be chatting any further. The gunners kill enemy helicopters every game.

[vestal belfry]

sure they do, you're just confused as to whats actually doing the damage.

[plain roost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py3PHHwsItg

[vestal belfry]

3 blackhawk kills. 1 lost a tail rotor prior, 1 crashed into the other BH dealing the majority of damage, the 3rd was on fire already. I don't see how this is proving your point at all.

[plain roost]

Good grief. I play with this Japanese fella and Agent P regularlly. They cut to the kill not the chase. You have absolutely no buisness bing in this feedback thread you fucking moron.

[vestal belfry]

so you try to prove your point by... not showing anything that supports your claims?

[plain roost]

How about you go into the fucking game or better yet, leave this thread and stop giving faulty feedback.

[vestal belfry]

"faulty feedback" lol, really riding that high horse are you? gatekeeping a feedback page.

you entire tirade was just "I'm getting kills, so nothing needs to change".

[craggy berry]

its not though, if im got between two angles of fire I cannot prevent it, it happens wayyy to quick.

[craggy berry]

it should be spin out and die, not drop their troops.

[craggy berry]

BAHAHAH nevermind, you just want to be right without anyone arguing with you.

[plain roost]

Yes, if you willing risk flying into a crossfire from apcs or boats then you're likely to die. If you're closing the distance between a single then you can avoid nearly every shot by flying in a way that protects your tail rotor by facing them down and closing the distance by banking to the side. That would be poor judgment from the pilots side for getting themselevs into that situation and they would justly deserve to die.

[plain roost]

Why? My gunners have just unloaded hundreds of rounds into an enemy transport. It will explode and die and they will get the kill.

[plain roost]

This fella thinks you can't even kill enemy vehicles with the gunners lol. I must of killed hundreds of enemy helicopters and littlebirds, multiple every game. It's as simple as going ingame and doing it yourself. Since he will do neither, He has no buisness being in this thread

[vestal belfry]

and you go right back to "I get kills, I am right". should just copy and paste that instead of rewording it every time.

[plain roost]

I unblocked you just to say this: go ingame and kill the enemy transport helicopter with your own transport helicoter. Okay. Back to being blocked!

[vestal belfry]

this guy actually thinks I actually said that you couldn't kill another chopper with only gunners.
despite him saying that it was with several RPG gunners in his seats. completely forgetting that ain't what I was talking about in the first place because he wants to lord over everyone with his chopper "with gunners and rpg seats" clearing an entire map of vehicles.

and of course he sees nothing wrong with that.

[craggy berry]

yes vs little birds and other helicopters, its easy to kill, anything on ground, infantry, tanks, apcs, cars, are incredibly difficult to destroy.

IRL if you damage the tail rotor you can still land, maybe if you miss the tail rotor but hit the body it should explode, but they are different.

[craggy berry]

you are right, but there are deffinitly times where you get caught in a crossfire and its unavoidable. if im dropping troops out and an APC comes out of the bushes, thats not something I can avoid unless I just never drop troops off.

[plain roost]

Sometimes getting surprised is unavoidable and you gotta take the death. If I'm flying with a whole crew ushally I ask one of them to check the scoreboard for enemy vehicles particularly attackboats and we will try and be consious of them at all times through call outs and checking the map, before we kill them off one by one. On a map like isles however with 6+ acps and 3+ attackboats you are pretty much dead if one gets the jump on you when dropping people off. I don't see anything particularly wrong with it it's just how the game goes.

[plain roost]

I've pretty much mastered the art of killing apcs with my rpgers. You can fire from F11 and then there's a small window to fire from on F10, which is the same side. I close the distance and do a sort of J-hook maneuver above and around the apc and the two rpgers shoot it down. Sometimes even as little as two shots if one of them hits the rear for 80+ damage. It's a very quick engagement and can be over in less than 10 seconds. Tanks take a bit longer however but you can hit for 40+ in the rear making it a 3 shot kill.
The only time it is difficult/dangerous is when you are closing the distance, are victim to a crossfire from another vehicle or the enemy APC gets a verticalshot by using a hill for eleation. Yet once you're completely above them you are totally safe since they can never shoot you down.
Granted, my crewmates are absolutely cracked with the rpgs so you this would indeed be difficult to replicate with randoms. it's still completely possible.

[craggy berry]

Its completly possible, but blackhawk and other helicopters as intended, do not have RPGers, theirfore there is no reason for MOST helicopter crews to ever target anything on land except maybe to suppress fire.

if you have RPG players, great

faboulous, but most don't, and like you said, even if you do have them, its not going to be as helpful.

[noble oyster]

Anyway nerf total HP buff tail rotor buff acceleration thank you bye

[neon ibex]

Blackhawks arn't affected by the vechile FOV slider and have a really narror visual range

no sure if this is a bug

[tacit crest]

I landed on top of an enemy and it didn't kill him 😦

it absolutely should

Would've been hilarious

[craggy berry]

valid

[vestal belfry]

considering we can get road kills moving 8 mph, I don't see why that isn't a thing

[plain roost]

The damage of the transport helicoper's miniguns is atrocious. They need to be buffed.

[noble oyster]

Is this just based on vibes or does anyone actually have concrete numbers on the weapon's RoF damage and falloff?

[wooden scaffold]

They should just increase ammo cap and fire rate imo

[vestal belfry]

the things kill, it just that bullets don't seem to follow any proper logic while moving, so hitting smaller targets is simply harder.

[finite anvil]

Dear diary

Still no tail rotor buff

[vestal belfry]

just change BTRs gun, literally the only threat to BH tail rotor that works commonly.

[noble oyster]

It's funny because it's so utterly unreliable too. Yesterday I emptied all 20 rounds into the BH with half visible landing on the back half and it just flew away, other days I try some random shot on a BH on the other side of the map and instantly get their rotor.

[vestal belfry]

yeah accuracy sucks, velocity sucks, elevation sucks

[noble oyster]

And yes, this. The guns don't have a problem with damage, it's about not being able to actually hit people with it.

[vestal belfry]

make BTR/LAV shoot AP rounds with extremely small aoe(but still there to break walls), but more accuracy and velocity. elevation is a must because of lack of anti-air that is actually effective. Tail rotor should have some resistance to explosives, but a single RPG to the tail rotor should still be kept because you usually get one shot on it and its hard to hit without the chopper being extremely close.

Poking a chopper to death and actually having to aim at what we want to hit rather than just "aim for shape and hope rng blesses you". thats not fun on either side.

[noble oyster]

Don't need AoE to break walls, Humvee M2 can do it as well.

But yeah rotor should just not be affected by any AoE imo just direct hits.

[vestal belfry]

I mean to poke holes in walls larger than what the 50 does, but yeah I would rather lose aoe if the gun actually operated better.

[craggy berry]

firerate is pretty fire, just needs tighter spread or more damage

[plain roost]

Vibes and vast experience and inumerable hitmarkers. It's absolutely nutty how weak they are.

[vestal belfry]

there needs to be stabilization. that alone would make the weapons far more deadly to small targets.

[noble oyster]

I mean consider that if you're hitting a medic, at those ranges they can probably outheal the one bullet out of every five you land on them

But I've used it up close against people and it does shred, it's just about it being pretty hard to handle. And like the LB, I don't think the crosshairs mean anything, you just have to look at the stream of bullets to guide the shots.

And I do think that it is good for game balance to not let miniguns farm people from afar. If you want to engage soldiers, it should involve some risk i.e. getting close to them. The problem is that at the moment the fragility of tail rotors makes the risk way too high whenever there's an APC in the map and the overall sluggishness of the helo means that your movements are extremely telegraphed.

[steady flame]

yeah right now its almost impossible to hit anything past 10m

[vestal belfry]

I wouldn't say its that bad, but its not great either

[lusty basalt]

I think that's the biggest thing
With a little bird I can just hook that thing up to my flight sim joystick if I want to and have full control of the guns as the pilot, a blackhawk's gunner has to constantly be fighting the pilot

[noble oyster]

Get a better pilot 😎

[craggy berry]

They are seperate, one is meant for gunning specifically, other is meant to support while transporting people, which is why blackhawk is more difficult to shoot with. With a good pilot, blackhawk beats littlebird 90% of the time, just takes a good pilot and ok gunners.

In an optimal world (which happens every couple games or more) the gunners are working with the pilot vs against.

[vestal belfry]

I don't think you understood what he meant by fighting the pilot. With no stabilization on the door guns, any tilt and pitch throws off your aim by a lot. Now for bigger targets like vehicles, this might not be so bad, its very much so when trying to hit small or further targets. The guns accuracy is actually rather good but with every motion of the chopper throwing off your aim shooting at anything but hordes or vehicles is just a waste of ammo.

[craggy berry]

tbh tracking isn't too hard on chopper from my experience

[plain roost]

Why do Americans never get out of the damn chopper? It was an absolute eye opener playing in American servers and seeing a full 12 man heli full of useless repairers not dropping down capping flags. Bragging about their repair points. Yikes! We need to capture and contest objectives, boots on ground.

[vestal belfry]

those people are usually full squads on private comms doing that for the express purpose of being a gunship.

[autumn scarab]

A fun tactic,ngl, but contributes less than using ground vehicles

And poping one full chopper is just beautyfull

[craggy berry]

normally its like a 5 or 6 person crew, increases survivability, gives the pilot more data, and makes it more efficient, nobody spawns in the helicopters after the initial push, so it works better as a gunship.

[plain roost]

4 is enough for a gunship heli but 12 is completely NOT how your supposed to do a gunship. 6-8 repairers in the back is just a flying multikill.
For the record I was the pilot and it was all randoms in the back with scarecely anyone dropping down. Would have been better for my team in terms of tickets if I had just landed in the water and lost the chopper for 3 minutes.

[neon ibex]

having people on the sides with rpg is a very good strat to take out armor

[vestal belfry]

its a bullshit strat is what it is.

[plain roost]

I know but these American fellas couldn't even do that lol. But have you noticed it? These full choppers in American servers doing bugger all but flying around farming repair points.

[vestal belfry]

really only see it in 127, where its not changing much unless they happen to be gods on the ground

[plain roost]

There are people literally going 170,000+ xp from just repair in the backseat of my chopper. It's absolutely insane. A guy from American was straight up just power leveling in my chopper for a few games. Went from like level 90 to 120+ in 3 games.
Thankfully the sickness hasn't entirely spread to Oceania as of yet and people still drop when I drop and let down the ropes, so we can still contest and play the objective in the chopper.

There should most definitely be a nerf to the repair tool or prehaps even a change that makes people get xp from dismounting and getting down the ropes. If xp is the motive for some peoples gameplay it should be encouraged in the right direction.

[plain roost]

It has happened. The unkillable blackawks have reached Oceania. I litterally can't kill them anymore in a 1v1 and neither they can me. The repair tool OUTHEALS the vehicle damage of the minigun

[vestal belfry]

On one hand, you shouldn't be hunting down other choppers in a transport anyway, that is what lead us to this point of unkillable choppers.
on the other, unkillable choppers are never fun to fight against because only a lucky shot is gonna bring them down.

[craggy berry]

Nobody gets in the transports. If I hunt other transports, that prevents them from having a gunship, then once those birds are down, I can act as a gunship and a transport heli until the other heli spawns back in.

[vestal belfry]

still not intended. fucking squad spawns ruins to point of a transport anyway.

[craggy berry]

squad spawns are way too OP, not worth it to wait for a heli that you can spawn in, in the time between them fixing that, I will continue with my strategies.

[wooden scaffold]

Make it so that spawning in a piloted helicopter is instant and spawning on a squad mate takes ~2 secs

[finite anvil]

Woah even more powerful squad spawning

[wooden scaffold]

No, I mean making it take time like spawning in a vehicle

[finite anvil]

I read it wrong my bad😔

[craggy berry]

maybe let people spawn in the helis further out from spawn? maybe a conquest esk thing where you can spawn into helis up to the furthest owned point

[wooden scaffold]

Both this idea and my idea together and transport heli might be able to be used for its intended purpose more than once.

[vestal belfry]

Helicopters always being spawn points like RS2?

[plain roost]

I'm ditching the helicopter in the water now whenever people spawn in and immediately go to the middle seats instead of the vacant gun. It's my spiteful protest against the useless repair tool abusers.

[vestal belfry]

So just Active Griefing then.

[autumn scarab]

You're right, literally griefing

Man is lucky that mods don't ban for that

[plain roost]

Being useless in the backseats repairing is greifing. There have been times when the pilot has been shot out and the helicopter is freefalling and these losers will still be repairing as it falls into the water. Seen it before a few times.

[vestal belfry]

that's being stupid

what you are doing is griefing.

[obsidian coral]

please for the love of god

its not fun to get tail roterd out of nowhere, reduce the the engi healing back to 50% of dmg and remove the tail roter, have the heli spin out every time it takes enough dmg to die

[craggy berry]

nah tail roter raises skill ceiling, but right now its just so weak/easy to destroy.

[obsidian coral]

"raises skill ceiling" so it forces all heli piolets to fly like schizos just to not be shot down

[vestal belfry]

Its funny because pilots should actually still be able to fly, its just much harder

[hidden shoal]

Lol no a heli ain’t flying without the tail rotor

[vestal belfry]

Pilots can and do fly without them if they are ever damaged bud. its not something they want to do but it can be done.

The caveat being, they have to have enough altitude to be able to correct

ideally a good pilot can regain control and leave the area before making an emergency landing

(IRL if you cannot do this shutting down the engines and relying on auto-rotate is also possible)

[midnight lantern]

please show me a video of you doing this in game

[hidden shoal]

The tail rotor is key to keeping the helicopter stable, since the rotational torque of a helicopter rotor is countered by the tail rotor pushing the body in the opposite direction.

It is also key for yaw control, as altering the thrust generated by the tail rotor by changing the blade pitch. Good luck flying without THAT, although I’ve heard of stranger things happening.

The loss of tail rotor function will render the aircraft unable to compensate for the torque generated by the main rotor. The only way to really prevent it from spinning completely out of control is to attempt autorotation, which works because now there is no power turning the main rotor.

[hard owl]

No its not griefing

[vestal belfry]

what? no. In game it's instant down. I'm saying it is a thing that can be done, and that losing a tail rotor isn't always a spin out too death unless the choppers too low for the pilot to correct

[vestal belfry]

yes, modern helicopters at the least, though I think I have heard since Nam, there is training to do so. it is not something easily done, but a pilot can compensate with rotor tilt, alt engine power. yes it will not always be a straight flight but its not meant to be flown that way for long.

[plain roost]

It is. You will have losers sitting in the middleseats seeminly afk just famring xp. They will neither drop, whip out and rpg when needed, go to the vacant gunner seat or take the pilot seat after the pilot has been sniped out. You will understand completely if you fly the transport helicopter.

[vestal belfry]

that's not griefing bud. intentionally killing teammates and destroying the helicopter is

[hard owl]

Once the pilot is out its usually too late anyways, unless youre really high up.

[plain roost]

Not true. The fellas I squad with can go to F1 almost instantly after I die and recover it quite quickly before I respawn back in. However these repairs won't do anything. While it's always dangerous to get sniped out over water you can still save it just barely even if you're only 30m~ high.

I've had a few enemy helicopter kills where the backseat people will be repairing as it freefalls and others where I get sniped out and they don't do a thing as it freefalls.

Ultimately they only do it for the xp and barely care if your team wins or loses, if the chopper gets destroyed or lives. Often they will obnoxiously keep telling me to take more damage so they can repair.

[hard owl]

Telling you to take more damage is annoying, Maybe introducing some sort of reward for winning would make them care.

A 10% bonus really isnt much if youre already making tons of points

[plain roost]

Capturing objectives after reppeling from a helicopter should be a point multipler, or even just successfully reppeling to the ground should give xp. There are a lot off good ways I think that can insensitize proper infantry-helicopter play.

[hard owl]

Or just nerf the xp gain from repairing. I dont know why repairing suddenly gives so much xp. Even only doing it briefly makes ~10k points.

Did they make changes to progression again?

[plain roost]

When the weekly challanges came out there was some xp bug and in the developer's great genius he decided there should be a global x4 xp multipler to compensate. That's what I've gathered from reading around anyway.

Around that time the repair tool started being abused. Interestingly, I never fly with a shot up, bullet ridden window now when before that was quite common since there's always at least 1 repairer.

[hard owl]

4x XP, are they insane bruh

No wonder that im gaining levels so quickly

[plain roost]

Level 0 to 80 in one evening is possible, it's nuts!

[hard owl]

Before the xp changes i got one level per 1 1/2 - 2 hour session, now i get 2 levels per good match

[plain roost]

It's without a doubt the best way to grind levels. I only wish these repair tool user realized that they can rpg tanks and APCs too from the F11/F12 seats which is a pretty hefty xp gain aswell. Would be more useful to the team and for winning than left clicking the roof.

[hard owl]

true

[craggy berry]

Yes, exactly. Forces pilots to be more aware of their helicopters positioning in the air. good pilots who can do that well are rewarded, bad ones are not.

[obsidian coral]

"be more aware of their helicopters" you mean constantly fly like you have hand tremors so that you shake the tail back and forth, no matter how close or far you are from your/the other teams points and spawns? because that's about the only thing the tail rotor mechanic does right now, its not fun to need to constantly shake the tail, if you don't its too easy to get sniped by a tank

[plain roost]

Wakistan massacre. 120+ kills in the transport helicopter. Possibly 130+

[craggy berry]

no? Tilt your helicopter so the tail rotor doesn't face big bad guns.

[plain roost]

This. You can defintely face down APCs/AttackBoats to protect your tail rotor, although it is still very risky as they can still clip it at the back!

[finite anvil]

Dear diary

Still no tail rotor hp buff

[craggy berry]

Thank you! I do think the tail rotor is very vulnerable and could be bufed a bit, im not saying its not weak, but there are ways to avoid big pew pew bang bang

[plain roost]

Defintely. Even if you encounter a boat/apc far in the distance shooting a stream of 25mm shells at you you can just go to camera view and bank to the sides, dodging them while you gain height and close the distance for a kill.
Most often tail rotor shots can be avoided by good flying and not doing needlessly risky plays.
Plus, the "black hawk down" tail rotor spin is a really fun aspect of the game and allows you to play the whole downed chopper crew behind enemy lines.

[plain roost]

Make it so players get xp for successully repelling down the rope. It's absolutely horrible not having people dropping when you need them. Instead they left click the roof the whole time with the repair too which is broken/exlpoiting.

[granite zenith]

Implement diminishing returns for total repair rate Heli can receive at the same time to limit the abuse of multiple engies repairing it, effectively making it immune to non instant kill damage

[noble oyster]

Infinite repair choppers is probably the stupidest thing in the game right now.

[vestal belfry]

leave it the way it is, lower total health, right now the damn thing is a flying tank and has the second most HP I believe so it can survive small arms and all the burst damage we have in game currently easily without even being put on low health besides getting hit with a tandem.

[noble oyster]

Less total health is not going to change the fact that engineers can outrepair anything short of half the server focus firing them. And that change without any other compensation would only make it even worse for people who are not abusing the repairs. Bringing back unrepairable damage to meaningful numbers e.g. 50% of any instance of damage taken, would actually give people the chance to force the chopper to back off after a bit.

That said, I'm also ok with reducing total HP but that should come together with improvements in acceleration, otherwise it's just going to feel really bad to use.

[vestal belfry]

if people stopped trying to gunship with it, likely wouldn't be as bad as you think

maybe lowering to tick speed for repairs? BF had you able to full heal with repair tools, outside of BF1 I think, and even with multiple it wasn't that bad because the health was a 1-2 shot from shoulder fired, AA could shred it, 2 missiles and a single tank shell.

the blackhawk is already faster and has a faster acceleration than its counterparts, the difference is that people try and use it like an attack chopper rather than a transport that trys to stay away from the fighting because of its health and lack of available threats

[granite zenith]

if it stops being a gunship it wont be any fun to use. if you fly a lot you know people barely use helis to spawn at, and just flying around empty is not that much fun.
dont lower max HP or max repair threshold, it will affect people not abusing repairs. right now the problem is too high repair rate, which outnumbers the damage realistically being done. so just control the total repair rate.

[vestal belfry]

its a transport.

of course the only reason it wouldn't be fun to use is because transport is not needed in this game because squad spawn.

which really needs to go at this point

[granite zenith]

squad spawn gives pleasurable dynamics in my experience. its cool to have mini battles happening around the map between 5-10 people, rather than just people wandering around in random directions.

maybe hard pushing the idea of a "transport" role is not the best. instead make vehicles and their passengers have more involved roles, like more guns to control, or spotting in all vehicles, etc.

and to keep "transport" idea viable maybe make it so anyone+anywhere can spawn in "transport" vehicles that are manned, not just squadmates.

otherwise you wont make people spawn in them - i've had people suicide respawn when they realised im going back to base for repairs because who wants to waste time instead of just go to action.

[vestal belfry]

yeah except for defenders and ground vehicles finding a rat. squad spawning is the cause of many of this games problems

[noble oyster]

You still have people wandering around in random directions because once your "minibattle" is won, you have no clue where the next cluster of enemies will be.

Rally point-based spawning would organically give rise to frontlines as people set spawns up and then clash with people coming from nearby enemy ones. And as the spawns up front drop, back up ones would be set up, resulting in more extended engagements with a lot less wandering in between.

[craggy berry]

That's its best use rn though

[noble oyster]

And it's just a fun thing to do with it. Not ruining the fun parts of something is important when balancing.

[vestal belfry]

because transport is worthless rn because of squad spawning. why sit in a chopper when you can just spawn on someone 10 seconds away from the action, with a re-up going along with it. Choppers with decent pilots are all but non-counterable unless the pilots are stupid or someone trying to kill them gets lucky with either a pilot snipe or a tail rotor shot, or manages to hit an RPG/tank shell on the Little bird specifically. and that's without a pack of Engy's back there making sure they don't die to smaller amounts of damage.

[noble oyster]

Keep in mind that transport LBs are still a thing and arguably way better at that specific job given their superior speed and smaller size.

So Blackhawks filling that same niche would not make much sense.

[vestal belfry]

still basically no one uses those outside of a specific squad deciding to. and more often than not, it has a pack of engys on the sides hovering over ground vehicles to nuke them, just another form of "gunship"

[noble oyster]

I agree that is very OP when used to its full potential, but it's a separate issue as is spawning. So just to state my vision for the BH specifically, it would be great for other changes in the game to give its transporting capabilities more relevance, but I definitely think it should retain its gunship capabilities, just not with the absurd level of tankiness it currently has.

[vestal belfry]

I don't mind the guns killing things well

I mind that its a flying tank even without the engys repairing it

the repair tick speed is not helping matters.

the repair per tick needs to be turned way down, along with its health being turned way down.

what's 3k even equivalent too? i think its less than a tank, but more than an APC?

[noble oyster]

No clue. Would be nice to know but Oki seems to hate showing numbers to people so. XD

[granite zenith]

If it's tankiness is reduced then guns need to be buffed right now they are almost useless with the spread and overheating

[vestal belfry]

then stop firing them for more than 3 seconds, they kill easily and are very accurate unless you keep trying to use long bursts.

[noble oyster]

Honestly the main problem is there's not enough feedback on that overheating mechanic. If it outright stopped firing when overheated people might actually use it more effectively.

[vestal belfry]

yeah, you would think it firing slower and your crosshair being "withing 50 meters" of your target people would stop ,but nooo

[granite zenith]

tell that to every gunner that flies with me, im just the pilot

and from my experience, it often takes 2 gunners like 5 circles around same 1 guy to kill him

[vestal belfry]

that is honestly just a shitty gunner. there is not much you can do about that without just straight up removing overheating. which would just make gunshipping worse

[vestal belfry]

thats less spread and more the fact stabilization on anything that isn't a main gun is non-existent

so unless you are flying completely level or in a perfect circle with no corrections, the guns will shift dramatically because the game does not compensate for that even a little bit

[granite zenith]

yea i dont care how im just saying if its even less tanky then firepower need to be improved somehow

[vestal belfry]

it really doesn't.

[granite zenith]

well sure, just putting my pilot opinion

[vestal belfry]

the guns will hit if people stop shooting nothing but long bursts, and actually know how to lead/neg-lead

[granite zenith]

i only fly and do nothing else so just sayin

[vestal belfry]

they are actually fairly accurate are the start of the burst

[noble oyster]

I'd much rather get improvements in acceleration. The thing handles like a brick.

[vestal belfry]

might just be to controls not being good for keyboard. haven't flow it enough to get a good read on that

[granite zenith]

good to know you are talking from a non user perspective

[vestal belfry]

Not flown enough =/= never flown bud

I just don't like using vehicles all that much without a squad, but I still use them.

[craggy berry]

Im not disagreeing with you.

[craggy berry]

They are neither of those things.

[vestal belfry]

they are both if you know what you are doing

[craggy berry]

I can track easily with the gun, it just does peeshooter damage

In the ground im not scared of those minuguns because they go in circles around me and hardly hurt if i get hit

It works better if you do short bursts, sure, but its sorrta supposed to be able to supress an area well, if im not afraid of getting hurt by it, its not good at suppression

[vestal belfry]

that more because the only way suppression works in video games is
A: there is some form of suppresion system to deal penalties to players
B: The weapons does massive damage that would mean near instant death if it hits
C: there is actual consequences for dying
or some combination of those 3.

[wooden scaffold]

How to make transport helicopters decent: Make squad spawning take time, similar to how vehicle spawning does now and make spawning on a piloted transport helicopter instant.

[midnight lantern]

can we make it so main rotor health repairs at main base? it sucks to save a heli from a crash just to have the main rotor fall off from a very light tap.

or have some health bar / some indicator that the main rotor is about to pop off

[vestal belfry]

the main rotor only falls off if you leave it hitting terrain.

[noble oyster]

I do think crash landing a half dead BH next to the repair box is still a "you've earned this" enough moment to let it come back to life

Doesn't happen often enough to upset balance in any meaningful way, still takes out the vehicle from the field for a while, makes pilot who pulls it off feel cool. Only good points imo.

[vestal belfry]

I've honestly never seen that landing be made and it still live long enough to even be repaired. but fair enough

[noble oyster]

I have exactly once haha

And it just felt sad watching it sit there slowly dying

[vestal belfry]

thats actually a good idea. thinking about that, how about we make that heavy version of the repair tool be one that can do that but it repairs really slowly, but can be fixed up to full, while the light one repairs faster but stops at 75 and doesn't fix rotors/components.

[midnight lantern]

for example, i just had four dudes in a row waste blackhawks by flying them somewhere and getting out. I took one back to main base after he let the main rotor hit the wall for a while. I did a slight manuever between trees where the rotor just got slightly clipped and the full thing fell off.

yes i know the main rotor only falls off from terrain, and i know you havent seen a landing be made and have it repaired but ive seen it many times

just had a few more guys fly helis into battle just to get out. I hope this doesnt become a habit of pilots

[noble oyster]

Tbh I just report the people I see doing this

If they just panicked and did it once nothing's gonna happen to them but if they consistently grief the team by wasting vehicles, well

Though I would be fine with them getting a vehicle ban, of course no such thing in game currently, but it would be more targeted if they just got a notification saying they're locked out of driving for XX hours until they stop wasting shit

[midnight lantern]

honestly the ban idea sounds nice. I think it should wait until there is a place to practice helis though so people dont get vehicle banned for practicing.

[noble oyster]

Agreed, that's an important thing

[midnight lantern]

I do think the main thing should be a punishment for the people that waste them. I dont feel like reporting does anything

[noble oyster]

Well, even though I love using vehicles, something I thought about is that losing a vehicle should lock you out of it for the time it takes to respawn and then a bit more

Because for example if I grab the tank on Frugis and then lose it, I know exactly what the timer will be to grab it again and so on until the end of the game

And of course I just have fun with that but it's not fair to other players who would like to give it a go

If I got locked out for the 6min and maybe + 30 seconds, it would give a window of time for anyone else to try it out

[midnight lantern]

for real. I like using the little bird but i hate waiting for it because i have to focus on getting it so hard

[scarlet orbit]

Pls add cooldown on repairing.For example: A vehicle takes X damage and cannot be repaired for Y amount of time (this needs to be balanced). Also, after a vehicle receives X damage and if it continues to receive damage less than X, the cooldown should be updated. To be able to repair again, the vehicle must not receive damage for Y amount of time. This should prevent endless repairs.

Also altitude limit only 200 meters. I think it should be 300-400 to have more room for maneuvers during air combat

[noble oyster]

I don't think this is a good system as it has unnecessary complexity. In general, the less "if else" conditions you have to think about when interacting with something, the better the player experience.

[scarlet orbit]

The developer wants the game to be a military simulator. All that realistic shit you know. It is logical that in such a game you need to think a lot
​. I don’t see any other way to solve the problem with helicopters flying aimlessly at the altitude limit and farming experience until someone lucky hits them in the tail rotor. LB cannot counter a transport helicopter if it is abusing the altitude limit. This is just stupid

[scarlet orbit]

As for the fact that an ordinary player should not calculate anything in his head, this is absolutely true. You just need to add simple and intuitive indicators

[noble oyster]

The developer wants the game to be a military simulator.
Source?

[noble oyster]

That goes beyond calculating. Whether a vehicle is damaged or not is beyond your control as a person wanting to offer repairs. Specially for anything outside of tanks and APCs, which any stray bullet will damage.

[vestal belfry]

the tick rate for repair just needs to be lowered, as well as maximum health for the transport choppers.

[scarlet orbit]

That's why there should be X number of damage. Let's assume that approximately 10 percent of the damage must be done over a certain period of time for the repair cooldown to kick in.

Yes, the system is complex and not simple, but simply reducing the tick rate for repairs is strange. Why then did we get the repair tool buff?

We already have a cooldown for spawning next to a squad member when he is in battle. And this is also not the simplest system that we all live with and don’t even think about because we have a simple and intuitive interface.

[vestal belfry]

the buff was that it started to repair 98% of damage instead of 75. which made air vehicles pretty much unkillable by small arms, and the larger transport by basically anything that doesn't intanst kill it, which is nothing because of its max health..

strange? its strange that a repair tool repairs quickly, repairs fully, and stacks with other repair tools.

[scarlet orbit]

But when we had the opportunity to repair only up to 75 percent, simply no one used the repair tool

The repair tool was unnecessary and useless

[noble oyster]

That's also an absolutely terrible system that I have extensively argued must be entirely removed from this game.

[scarlet orbit]

lol

okay

[vestal belfry]

squad spawning in general sucks

[noble oyster]

Just because nobody did something before doesn't mean they will stop now that they have been able to experience the relevance such a tool can have firsthand. And yes, the 98 repair buff was 100% necessary to make it in any way useful for ground vehicles which can take several hits in a very short time and have a comparatively much more limited mobility. That is a very different situation from aircraft which can go back to base in a fraction of the time ground vehicles take to even drive out of the safe zone for the larger maps.

[vestal belfry]

there are so many ways to nerf what a repair tool does. simply giving diminishing returns for multiple repair tools, a .25-.5 second downtime on damage, a slower tick rate, less overall damage repaired per tick. there is a reason full repairing things takes alot of time and stacking repairs does not increase the repair rate by 100% per repair tool anywhere else

[noble oyster]

I don't see why just making different vehicles have different recoverable HP percentages is not the most direct and simple option. The repair bar directly communicates the available HP left to repair so this is not something that would confuse players in any way.

Slower ticks would make it hardly useful for ground vehicles again. Stacking repair nerfs does sound reasonable.

[vestal belfry]

the repair tool currently repairs Raw HP, so that would be a lot more work since it means redisgning alot of systems to reflect that

[noble oyster]

The repair tool repairs HP from the "repairable HP" bar. That is tied to the damage the vehicle has taken and implementing a by-vehicle difference in repairable HP left after each hit is not something that would be hard if the game has been implemented in anything resembling a sensible way, which based on the highly customizable settings Oki has shown for community servers, is very likely to be the case.

[vestal belfry]

a downtime of a quarter of a second to 1 second and nerfing the repair rate of multiple tools would be the simplest route I think

[vestal belfry]

that is still raw HP...

[noble oyster]

Yes, and how is that a problem?

[vestal belfry]

its hard to tell what its based on, because the system seems to be taken from what damages the vehicle rather than its actual healthpool

[noble oyster]

The health pool of the vehicle is not relevant. Whatever the implementation is, it must involve a function that detects when the vehicle is hit and passes along relevant information about damage amount and type which then gets combined with the vehicle info to apply resistances and the such. Then a calculation is made to determine leftover repairable HP, which may at this time only consider damage source, but adding type of vehicle as an extra argument and the corresponding attribute is not complicated.

[vestal belfry]

so 98% of 100 damage would be different took 200 damage from full health, when if it was taken from the health pool every repair would be based on losing 2% everytime, but it loses more or less depending on what damages it.

[vestal belfry]

or just give downtime on damage, and lower gains from multiple repair tools, which is even simpler and even less complicated.

[noble oyster]

Might be, downtime on damage also completely kills tha viability of the tool for ground vehicles again.

[vestal belfry]

armor classes would fix that I think, keep it from a sniper plinking a tank to keep it from repairing

[noble oyster]

At any rate, the presumed complexity of a solution is the least relevant consideration for any given suggestion. Oki ultimately knows and decides what is easy, what is too hard and what is worth implementing even if it's hard.

[vestal belfry]

or an APC would be more likely since it still takes damage from small arms

this is why I hate Raw HP systems, they are nearly impossible to deal with long term, especially in larger player count games

[noble oyster]

That is exactly the worst victim of such a change. An APC that is shot by another APC even a few times is already in OHK range from a front tandem.

You must be available to rapidly repair in such situations or you're basically already dead

[vestal belfry]

like I said, Raw Hp damage and repairing is stupid

tandem does a fuckton cause tank, when it should only do as much as HEAT

[noble oyster]

It does a stupid amount to the APC for sure

[vestal belfry]

yeah because otherwise since its Raw Hp instead of a multiplier to "Tank" it does 80% damge to an apc on a non-weakspot hit, or at least somewhere close to that

[noble oyster]

I really think it's more like 95%

[vestal belfry]

I'm pretty sure it leaves an apc at 20% or something close to it since I was sitting behind APCs that eat a tandem hit, and tis about that much they got left

[noble oyster]

One shot -> chunk that is left fills up the 100% bar with 7.25 copies of itself -> 100/7.25 = 13.8% HP left

So 86%ish (messed up my initial calculation)

[craggy berry]

Blackhawk needs more acceleration, more tail rotor health, less overall health

Yippee

[vestal belfry]

if the tail rotor wasn't an instant kill but something the pilot could fight to control it would be better I think

[scarlet orbit]

I have another one simple idea. What about repair tool overheat?

Its similar with repair cooldown on transport but better for player experience

[scarlet orbit]

This will be just better LB

[craggy berry]

Its is, damage wise at least. Right now it just doesn't accelerate enough to be fun.

The benefit of a little bird is you don't have to commuminicate with gunners.

[cloud hare]

it's not really wasting vehicles if you're using them to get somewhere

it lets your squad spawn in on you without requiring them to get into the chopper and rope down

sometimes you have to get somewhere fast and you can't rely on randos to be a pilot for you, so you have to be your own pilot and ditch your ride

i do it all the time with littlebirds. i fly where enemies are, jump off onto a roof, and then enjoy my height advantage

[noble oyster]

Which isn't the same as crashing a fully loaded transport directly into a nest of enemies

[scarlet orbit]

Let the boys learn to fly, nerd. You talk about this as if they are not losing your vehicle, but your life, irl.

Knowing where the safe places to fly and where not is is also part of the training.

[noble oyster]

Yes, wasting my time does lead to that

[craggy berry]

It took me like 3-4 blackhawks to figure everything out

[tight flicker]

Hi, I am ranked #1 on the repair leaderboard so I figured I would give my opinions on the BH/KA as it is where I spend the majority of my 400 hours so far.

• Need some sort of test servers for pilots who want to learn to fly.
• For heli vs vehicle combats the mounted minigun is the best option, but when you shoot infantry it feels like you're shooting an airsoft gun with the amount of hit markers you get. Super tilting to shoot a guy 8 times, with 8 hit markers without a kill.
• I like the weak tail rotor mechanic because it's like a critical strike chance. I would make it so tandem rockets and armor piercing rounds would still "1-shot" a tail rotor but heat rockets and APC rounds "2-shot". If rotor is damaged, display it on pilot's HUD and it can only be repaired at base.
• 'Repair' XP should be adjusted to rival 'revive and healing' XP.

Met a lot of cool people through the game and love how unique the flying system is.

[autumn scarab]

Not to offend but "unique flying system" always means "this shit is so broken, that it gives me advantage"
Saw the same situation in Star Citizen

[craggy berry]

Not necessarily, battlebit is the first game where i really enjoyed being a pilot due to how I can work with my gunners to succeed

[autumn scarab]

That's not a flight system

[leaden merlin]

what would be the advantage

[scarlet orbit]

I hope you have fun sitting in a helicopter for hours and pressing left click.
But I think you're mentally ill🤔

[craggy berry]

Now your getting hung up on specifics. He could mean anything.

[tight flicker]

Thanks for looking out for me. ❤️

[tight flicker]

I can see the broken aspects and provided ways to improve. I can’t think of any other game with flying mechanics like BB, so I figured “unique” would describe it perfectly.

[granite zenith]

Devs should reach out more for feedback to people that have a lot of experience in specific mechanics, unfortunately just arguing with rando's here that don't know shit ain't changing much, I've already tried. But good feedback I agree.

[tight flicker]

Thanks Tru, I see it from a different perspective now. At least the info is here if they seek it 👍🏼

[autumn scarab]

Well, yes I am, but semantics are important. Otherwise we could argue about two different things

[deft jolt]

Am I crazy or does the blackhawk feel better to fly than the Ka-60? Also these helicopters feel like they should have a bit faster roll speed

[plain roost]

I have hundreds of hours and I can always feel like they can feel and fly completely diffrently, but I can't really nail it down to what it is or what it's diffrent. Ka-60 is good for tight turns I think on a map like Frugis, but overall the blackhawk is more enjoyable. You can do rockets more easily from F10 in the blackhawk since the window/door is huge

[deft jolt]

So do I, so I'm not crazy then

Also does the visibility as pilot in blackhawk feel better to you too?

[plain roost]

I have not noticed a diffrence in visibility from the cockpit. I use the camera view extensively however

[deft jolt]

Feels like the blackhawk has more horizontal visibility to me

[fossil summit]

miniguns need MUCH higher player damage. a pistol is better than these things. maybe dramatic dmg dropoff so you cant snipe from the air but can clear a landing zone when dropping off teammates

[plain roost]

I agree completely. The damage is atrocious.

[tidal oriole]

I think the helicopter system should be redone. To give an example, Garry's mod wac helicopter driving system is very nice and takes time to master, it is a system that you can enjoy immensely once you master it. If you examine its system and add a third person mode to the helicopter driving camera, then it will be great.

[deft jolt]

Third person option would give too much visibility imo

[autumn scarab]

Yeah, no

People need to stop pretending that 3rd person view makes you omnipotent

It doesn't

Yes, it improves the visibility, but that's the point of it

Amd improvement of visibility on ALL vehicles is very much needed in BBR

[deft jolt]

And that’s why I don’t think it should be added

[autumn scarab]

Because ALL vehicles should be punished?

By low visibility, that can be exploited by every other player, that alredy have acces to dedicated counter tools?

Especially on 127v127

[deft jolt]

Yes

[autumn scarab]

LMAO

Good point really

Boils down to 'fuck all vehicles'

[cloud hare]

i don't think third person would make vehicles OP or anything. you still have to deal with obnoxiously slow turn speed

[deft jolt]

Or skill is needed to survive in then

[autumn scarab]

Exactly

[cloud hare]

"skill", also known as, "pray that no one on the enemy team has tandem or C4"

[autumn scarab]

Implying that 3rd person makes you OP basically says that you don't have any fucking clue about vehicle gameplay in arcade games

[deft jolt]

Skill as in “hey go repair me engineer”

[deft jolt]

No one said it was OP

[autumn scarab]

Yes

That why I used 'implying'

[autumn scarab]

You know that this is very much improbable in BBR?

[deft jolt]

Implying vehicles are useless without third person basically says you haven’t played vehicles

[cloud hare]

fucking idiot lmao

[autumn scarab]

I didn't implied that

Learn to interprete

[deft jolt]

🤯

[deft jolt]

If your camping in a tank yes

[autumn scarab]

I don't play tanks

[deft jolt]

I do, I only get killed on the frontline if I push beyond the infantry

[autumn scarab]

Good for you I guess

Back to the topic

[deft jolt]

The point of spotter/f3 is to do what 3rd person would do

[autumn scarab]

3rd person camera is very common feature in combined arms FPS. All arcade titles have it, BF3/4/5/2042, PS2, WW3, you could name a few older titles too.
And are vehicles OP there? No, they are not.
BBR isn't milsim, you can't even argue for that. It's very arcade game with some hardcore elements sprinkled in for flavour. So the argument of 'milsim games doesn't have 3rd person camers' is invalid.
So like, no reason to not add 3rd person camera, especially when it improves visibility etc etc, which this game lacks

[autumn scarab]

Soo spoter role is to help me navigate all those clustered, narrow and even claustrophobic areas of basically every map in current rotation? Spotter role is to be my reversing camera? My altimeter?

Am I to rely on some random to help me navigate the hell of map design for vehicles that BBR maps are?

[deft jolt]

They can stay in map without having to close it to view so yes

[autumn scarab]

And that goes for all ground vehicles. There is a reason why everyone bumps into eachother at the beggining of the game

[deft jolt]

You don’t need an altimeter

[deft jolt]

Stop with this schizophrenic OP stuff

No one made that srguement

[autumn scarab]

Map does not help you with navigation. It's not detailed enough, and vehicles icon is 2d, basically invalidating any attempts. It also doesn't shows even 50% of obstacles

[deft jolt]

It shows roads

[autumn scarab]

You said it would be too strong. I argue it wouldn't be. Simple as

[autumn scarab]

Yes, roads. What about indestructible lamp posts, fences, ditches, random square boxes

If it was only about roads 3rd camera wouldn't be needed

[deft jolt]

I just said too much visibility

[deft jolt]

If you crash into those 3rd person won’t help

[autumn scarab]

It would definitely help, because I would know where they are

[autumn scarab]

Define 'to much visibility'

[deft jolt]

More than needed

[deft jolt]

Unless you’re reversing it shouldn’t be an issue

[autumn scarab]

I do find myself reversing all the time when playing the point.
I wouldn't need to if I was camping but I am not doing that.
I would really like to see where I am going when I am reversing, which I do often

[deft jolt]

Good point

[autumn scarab]

Yeah, that's like, 50% of the resasons why I would like to see/thing this game needs 3rd person camera. You just can't see shit while reversing.

The other thing is lack of consistent and tangible counter to C4

Yes, you can play with inf, but I elaborated about that here #1152894940771266630 message
Or you can camp in spawn zone. If you want to play aggressively, you are just on your own and neeed a lot of luck to not be c4ed in 30s.
3rd person camera at least gives you a way to be aware of your surroundings.
BF games, and more, also have C4 and 3rd person camera doesn't invalidates this tactic. You can still be killed by it.
Yes, it's harder to pull of, but right now it's too easy. Everyone can thier grandpa does that successfully.

[craggy berry]

Amount of vision isn't an issue for the blackhawk tho

[autumn scarab]

Well, you don't really see beneth you. You lack altimeter, and gaging your altitude is hard

Black hawks/LB would benefit the least, true, but there still are positives for them

[plain roost]

3rd person camera would be terrible. Completely breaks immersion for what I see as realistic the style of the game.

[deft jolt]

1. no
2. No
3. No

You have an altimeter, you can see below you with landing camera, and you can see the terrain below you in level flight, where you need to gauge altitude

on the right

50 - 100 - 150 - 200

0.7 m/s climb rate

ka-60

horizontal FOV is a bit limited due to the pillars

blackhawk has better FOV imo

but good vertical

you can see a lot when flying atitude

when nose down you can gauge altitde visually, and have a decent enough visibiltiy

landing camera, good downwards FOV

even with high nose angle you can still gauge altitude and see forward

[craggy berry]

Notttt really, i can fly super close to the ground just fine

[deft jolt]

as can i, its easy to fly scraping the ground

[plain roost]

He's a weirdo who doesn't play the game. Surely anyone who has piloted the helicopter has seen the heads up display!

[deft jolt]

Eh, it's kinda useless beyond the crosshair when attemping to hover

I can understnad him not seeing it

[plain roost]

Nah it's super super useful when your using it to be a sniper littlebird since you need to be as still as possible for your guys to be accurate

And flying backwards for the alt meter

[deft jolt]

Well, for the gun crosshair

Flying backwards I still go based off of feel and how the ground moves around me, atleast in the blackhawk/ka-60

[autumn scarab]

Good thing is, you will not be forced to use it. It's totally optional

[plain roost]

I would be forced to use it anyway since it would be so powerful

[cloud hare]

oh no, my immersion! in a game where a guy can run 30 mph and jump off rooftops with a rifle and a backpack full of ammo, grenades, and C4

[plain roost]

Battlebit is quite immersive in vehicles. I cannot comment on the wacky shit I've seen infantry players do

[autumn scarab]

It isn't really

It tries to be, but all that inbalance, goofy ah physics, seeing inf players running around on adderal and questionable design choices are ruining it

Honestly, BF3 had more immersive vehicles gameplay than BBR

It's faaar from Squad even, not to mention GHPC

[autumn scarab]

No, you wouldn't be. It's all up to you.

And 3rd person camera is far from powerful

Having 6 insta kill bricks that can destroy everything around you and vehicles is MUCH more powerfull, but everyone have acces to it

[deft jolt]

yes super realistic too
vehicles should be relatively weak though

[autumn scarab]

Why?

Becouse it's realistic?

Or because you said so?

[deft jolt]

hyper realistic

require skill for them

[vestal belfry]

hyperrealistic would mean infantry would be scared to attack the tank, c4 would do basically nothing, we would need a full crew, it would have thermals and NVG for the gunner and CROWS

[deft jolt]

if it has crows

basically just port steel beasts into Battlebjt

[static schooner]

Am i crazy or is the KA60 just worse than the Blackhawk. It's noticeably slower no?

[autumn scarab]

Then you need to buff them to a point when everyone shits themself when sees them

[deft jolt]

It feels more sluggish

[deft jolt]

Hyper realism!!

[obsidian coral]

you add hyper realism and then players cry because "vechs OP, we cant just run at them and throw c4 to kill "

[autumn scarab]

They alredy do

But imagine, hyper realism means 1 rpg for a squad. And HEAT not tandem. 1 tandem per 3 squads. And people would be lucky if anyone in squad got C4

[deft jolt]

you add hyper realism and then players cry because "why cant i fly littlebird? so sensitive!"

and everynoe dies of starvation before even playing the game

[autumn scarab]

That's basically your idea man

[deft jolt]

by not having third person

[autumn scarab]

Well, a lot of players would benefit form 3rd person. I still think it is good idea and would benefit this game.

If you want realism, wait for hardcore

[deft jolt]

no one wants realism in this game

[autumn scarab]

Yeah, so 3rd person camera it is

Simple as

[plain roost]

Why do you want 3rd person in helicopters?

[autumn scarab]

Because I want 3rd person view in ALL vehicles.

I do believe in fairness, so if I want 3rd viev in ground and naval vehicles, helicopters should get it too

The better question is why you don't want it

[foggy lance]

limited view is one of the main downsides of vehicles in exchange for armor and big guns

[deft jolt]

I want it only if we get 3rd person for infantry

[autumn scarab]

BF? PS2? WW3? Vehicles with those "big guns" and armour are still underwhelming as fuck in BBR

[foggy lance]

aside from miniguns they are all pretty strong from what i’ve played

also ive never played any of those games lol

[craggy berry]

Immersion, not realism. Also consistancy, no other veichle has 3rd person

[plain roost]

It's dumb. flickering between 3rd person view and first person every 2 seconds is schizoprhenic but you'll have to do it otherwise you'd be at a disadvantage. I already do this with the camera view in the helicopter. The infantry don't have 3rd person - neither should a tank or helicopter. It completely breaks my immersion and would go against what I see as the spirt and style of the game where it's all first person immersion/realism

Consider having someone in a drone spot for you above and call out targets (or threats) if you want a second set of eyes - 2nd person view. This is what I do sometimes with my squad when they're playing vehicles.

[foggy lance]

ye the new drone spotting is gonna be 🔥

[plain roost]

Furtermore, instead of wanting unrealistic and immersion breaking 3d view how about discussion being able to open up the hatch and peak above like a tank commander? Can have a look around and assess threats from a more elevated view. Battlebit is a feature rich game and should continue being so with small, cool intricate details like that

Aye! don't you even have a dedicated spotter seat in the tank? Thermal vision even

[foggy lance]

yeah hella underrated, in a coordinated crew that thermal really keeps the tank alive

[autumn scarab]

Yeah. That's says a lot. BBR armoured vehicles are underwhelming, less fun, and even boring in comparison. Not as fun to play.
And definitely not 'pretty strong'.
Transports are ok.

[autumn scarab]

It's not about spoting lol
It's all about navigating this clusterfuck of a maps, seeing where I am reversing, and having any counter to C4

[vestal belfry]

man, if you think third person is used for spotting enemies, have I got news for you. On top of that, if you see them in third person view they already got c4 on you.

[autumn scarab]

3rd person view doesn't have much utility in spotting. Especially compared to alredy existing 8x zoom tank have. You can spott with that alright.

[vestal belfry]

I mean, that's what I said?

ah I didn't reply that why it wasn't as clear as I hoped

[autumn scarab]

Yeah, I know, I am just adding a point about the zoom

[craggy berry]

But nobody has an issue with that rn, especially veichles

[autumn scarab]

A lot of people have, not many suggest 3rd person camera

[obsidian coral]

the blackhawk miniguns should be made better to allow the transport to actually defend it self during drop-offs (mainly more accuracy). i swear to god before somebody says "ItS NoT a GuN ShIP" its role as a transport is functionally negated by the game due to squad spawning besides the start of a round, its already somewhat easy to kill with pilot snipes and tail rotor hits so giving its minigun a spread thats not ABYSSMAL would help it greatly

[vestal belfry]

1-2 seconds bursts have pretty good accuracy within 120 meters, but the gunners have to actually know to do that and lead, and not just spray in general direction

[foggy lance]

but it’s a big gun that goes brrrr so

[fossil summit]

miniguns just need better damage in closer range to defend the drops. its actually dumb that a minigun is one of the worst weapons for killing in this game.

[obsidian coral]

i swear to god, i dont know if its splash or what but whenever you point your nose to a boat or APC just a few hits cause it to tail rotor, despite the APC at the front being the only thing shooting you, its such bullshit

[vestal belfry]

if its in front of you they shoot up, and if you keep flying forward like an idiot they direct impact the tail rotor

[plain roost]

You've got to lift your rear tail rotor higher when facing down enemy APCs and boats and closing the diffrence - a more aggressive downwards angle so to speak. Then you should be more safe from tail rotor hits.

[obsidian coral]

i was circling a boat with the nost facing it

not flying straight at it lmfao

[scarlet orbit]

Tail rotor is a joke

[obsidian coral]

the crashlanding is cool, it should just happen whenever the heli is shot down

i had it happen twice in a row one game, i need to just start recording so i can backmyself up lol

[vestal belfry]

tail rotor should just make it really hard to control, add autorotate to. would be alot more organic, and being able to fly away if your a good enough pilot would be nice.

[deft jolt]

they can splash

[deft jolt]

autorotation is a loss of engine power, not a thing in battlebit

[vestal belfry]

thats not what autorotation is, its the effect of the prop to allow safe descent without engine power. its purely pilot controlled, and is done when you lose tail rotors (to avoid the spin), or with sudden engine shutdown.

[deft jolt]

hence why i mentioned engine power

you dont lose engine power in battlebit

well unless you turn it off midflight that is

[vestal belfry]

no shit, like I said being able to control the helicopter to get it out of danger instead of just "dead"

if the tail rotor goes, shut engine off and try and control it

if a pilot can make it back to base allow reups of the blades, which should be a thing anyway since people lose main rotors near the boxes pretty damn often

[obsidian coral]

i really do enjoy vechs and flying in this game, they just feel so shit to play, constantly, if anything they should be buffed but made harder to use (IE tanks having a dedicated driver, gunner, MG, and commander, im not sure how one could do this with helis(maybe the co-pilot seat on transports has some controls but not others? (rope, and spotting), or the flight model is made more punishing somehow. but as of right now they just feel like an afterthought, especially with the broken implementation of the window glass bullet reduction from MONTHS AGO that was NEVER FIXED.

[autumn scarab]

Dedicated driver would lill tank. No one would use it. Players are literally NPC'S in this game.

Easy way to kill a gameplay loop

[obsidian coral]

skill issue, literally, but thats the point, make it harder to use but much stronger if used right, IE being tankier, or haveing more dmg/accuracy with the gun

also what gameplay loop lol, right now the gameplay loob for a good tank used is to spawn in one, and sit inside of your safezone for the entire game, using AP to snipe other vechs and players

[vestal belfry]

if vehicles were actually strong, I would say that wouldn't be unwelcome

but they aren't.

sitting in the distance sniping with a tank or btr still would only take one dude to drive out there and switch seats

[autumn scarab]

'Skill isseu' lmao

Some players won't use thier med kit on you and you are expecting them to do Squad level of cooperation to drive a tank

Lamo

[deft jolt]

with the altitudes we can fly at probably wouldnt help

[obsidian coral]

yea sadly, we wouldnt get very far lmfao

[autumn scarab]

That exactly what happend to RCB90. Vast majority uses it that way, you are lucky to see one that moves and shoots at the same times.

[vestal belfry]

ok that's fair, but it would be fun that a crash could be somewhat flown away if the pilot had the skill.

[steady delta]

ive gotten prettty damn good at flying the blackhawk the way the devs apparently want it to(using rope, coming down to drop people off) and i gotta say.... its trash. Not only does it almost always end with the heli being shot due to its insane weak tailrotor, but it also has a paper thin winsheild, the one person who is not doing damage in the heli being the one to absorb most of the fire. i try, but it feels like they just dont want any transport helis, but they want me to load up with as many rpg bois as possible and consider that milsim and proper

its actually easier to keep thje heli alive by not putting the rope down, and flying at the same height as the road.

then, you can duck between buildings, and survive long engagements with tanks and apcs

[autumn scarab]

Isn't that how you were supposed to play helis in BF4/2042

Using drastic elevation changes and buildings for cover?

That's why siedge of shanghai was soo damn obnoxious with attack helis

[steady delta]

its more of the diffrence in abilitys of both helis. Last dev stream i listened on, they turned down parachutes due to (we want to not have the heli stay up in hte air, we want it to have to be in danger)

If i play like the devs want, helis last maybe 3 mins on maps with bad elevation changes, and more on bigger maps. However, if i play like a lot of people use blackhawk and kago for, rpg troops, it normally stays alive till end of round, makes people salty, and gives me best transport. But the heli stays so far out of engagements at that playstyule its jsut reinforcing what the devs explicitly said they didnt want

[steady delta]

can you see how they eityher need to make the blackhawk survive more close range encounters(iunculding pilot defense) to get the playstyle they want, or to ban a ENTIRE CLASS from a heli? which is such a silly idea to even fathom

[plain roost]

The pilot not being able to be killed instantly from groundfire would improve the helicopters tremendously, and by extension then improve teamplay & survivability. The windows need to be fixed to have reduced bullet damage.

[autumn scarab]

If you play like devs want, you are obviously doing it wrong. Devs showed many times that they don't know shit about vehicle gameplay. They are big glaring issues in thier implementation, or even thier design of roles and function. They are a part of the game in name only, and serve only purpose in marketing to say 'Look! We made FPS game with vehicles! Just like BF! Go buy it now!'

[autumn scarab]

Why ban? I don't understand this poitn

[steady delta]

to stop rpgs in helis, would stop the helis from being out of conflict, and would force them into closer engagements. the negative way to do this would be to ban engies, and the positive way would be to buff tail rotor and pilot survival

[vestal belfry]

or you know

ban offesive gadgets from helos

like they said they would

[steady delta]

and even still, your then looking at a heli survival rate of under 6 mins, on average due to average pilot skill, fragilness of the blackhawk, and overall bad implementation of the unit

[deft jolt]

you’re supposed to stay moving when dropping

just fly over points with your rope down

fly to another

and if they don’t get out then they can head back to base with you

[vestal belfry]

being able to fly higher would help I think, and if there were no offensive gadgets, the extra altitude wouldn't do much. unless thats a buff to the LB or something

[deft jolt]

flying higher vs flying lower

[steady delta]

i have around 240 hours on battlebit(ik not a massive amount) but maybe 10 hours of that is actually fighting on the ground. the rest is helis.

i dont even use the rope anymore, its only used at the beginning of the amtch to load more than 8 people on the heli. rest of the time, i buzz the point to where i knock off the roof edges(which does no damage to heli)

the only way to survive in blackhawk is to average out 160km/h at almost all times, and still you have to make sure btrs are not there

[deft jolt]

there’s literally no reason to not have the rope

you average roughly 175 km/h in level flight

[steady delta]

roppe slows down the people jumping, people dont understadn you can hit f and then spawce to get off rope quickly

ooga

[deft jolt]

“get on the rope if you want out, dropping 5 seconds”

you get them on the rope then you fly to the point

if you spend over 20 seconds at a point while doing drops you’re going to die

more like 10 actually

[steady delta]

when i say buzz, im saying im flying fast, and low enough i knock off the antennas and ledges off the rooftops. i give a 20 second coutdown approacing a poiint, and tell people to jump

this isnt a skill issue

this is how fragile the tail roter is and the pilot defense

[deft jolt]

and I do that too

sounds like a skill issue

[steady delta]

your gonna deny the tail roter health is enough?

[deft jolt]

no

actually yes

you’re not gonna get killed by a BTR when flying low, fast, and cautiously

unless it’s old Basra

fly below tree level

[steady delta]

zalif bay is another one, you cant fly as low as you want due to the highway arches not being destructable

[deft jolt]

I never encountered that issue

[steady delta]

then you arnt flying low enough?

[deft jolt]

I usually fly around the tall objects in the valleys flanking the points

Well not there but in between them and buildings and just over the highway in the city

[steady delta]

this moved a lot from the issues i was talking about. this is talking the average skill player will not survive playing the bh or kago without doign the exact thing the devs dont want, staying oput of confliuct and useing a rocket troop of people to kill ground units

[deft jolt]

They will not

They will die until they try new things in flight

[craggy berry]

Keep rope diwn always and just flyby dropoff spots. Stay in one place for max 3 seconds.

[obsidian coral]

you can tell people to hang off the rope at the bottom, fly onto the point, they will hit the ground and be brought off

this way you dont even need to stop

them hitting the ground while on the rope somehow does no dmg lmfao, even if your moving faster then they wound normally free fall

but its kinda insane the best way to use to heli to dropoff troops is to borderline abuse the physics

if your moving fast small arms fire isnt normally an issue

only thing is somebody with good tim magdumping the tailrotor, or an IFV/ tank that has good aim for once

still bullshit that splash affects the tail rotor

[vestal belfry]

should just do what we do in real life "RPG threat in the area? No fly zone within 20km till it is clear"

[obsidian coral]

should just do what we do in real life

"large enemy presence?, remove the grid square from existence with airstrikes and artillery before moving in"

[vestal belfry]

"Negative, civilian infrastructure cannot be targetted without accurate BDA, we're gonna need boots on the ground."

which, was of course, hated by literally every grunt out there.

[merry socket]

Hello, I haven't seen any feedback regarding the armed bird, so I'll write it here. I have a question about why there hasn't been any added protection for the pilot in the armed bird. I have 430 hours in this game, with about 300 on the armed bird. However, it's starting to frustrate me a lot that a pistol or an SMG can kill the pilot. For example, the match is going very well, but you approach within 20 meters of the point, and boom, a headshot from a pistol or sniper from the opposing team takes the bird. You wait for over 20 minutes for the next one, if not longer, and then you get shot a few meters outside the safe zone—boom, headshot four times in a row.

I request the addition of some protection for the pilot, even if it's just the front windshield allowing only large-caliber bullets to pass through. I spend most of my time in the bird, and this is really annoying me. Please don't respond like other posts telling me to learn how to fly. When I see something like that, it makes me want to vomit. I know you can shoot from a distance, but the game characters are so small that they are practically invisible. Also, the crosshair covers them in a way that you can't see what you're shooting at. If you get closer, you die from a pistol.

PLEASE, DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS!

[obsidian coral]

the LBs miniguns have no dispertion

stay far away from enemy infantry

no ones ever going to agree to buff the LB because a few good pilots will never be shot down and go 100-0 in a game with it

best thing you can do is try to get better at it

the crosshair lies too

just pay attention to where the bullets go

you have crazy good manuverability, if your aim is good enough fly around like a crackhead, and remember that you can change the keybinds to make flying more comfy

@merry socket

[autumn scarab]

I do agree with LB buffs, nerfs oki made were too harsh. And 100-0 is totaly resonalbe with 127 players. BF choppers can go 100+ with 32 people in team

[cloud hare]

i think the damage nerf was fine, but the upside down flying nerf needs to go

[steady delta]

There is a lb ferback area! Just beside the g3 feedback area

[obsidian coral]

mhmm

[odd stream]

So I'm adding my 2cts here in the hope somebody from the team reads it, not interested to discuss with the vocal opinion leaders in this cancerous discord so not going to reply to the expected skill issue comments etc:

• Tail rotor critical hits are a problem right now. It is not really something you can avoid unless you always break LOS to enemy BTR's, the most dangerous enemy of the transport chopper. The preferred strategy from self proclaimed heli professionals seems to be as articulated here to fly lower than the treeline so that BTR cannot see you. This "solution" completely ignores that there are 127 players and a good amount of them are running C4 and that this "solution" is bonkers. It should be the other way around. There are no lock on weapons in this game so gaining altitude should make you safer, while it also drastically reduces your combat ability and ability to drop people. In reality though, exposing yourself to BTR's means at any altitude you are going to be hit in the tail, in my experience this happens within a minute. Yes, high skilled players might be able to work around this, however it does not change that in my opinion the workarounds required expose that there is a problem in the first place.
• The instant tail rotor critical hit does not fit together at all with the way to high base HP of the choppers. Conceptually this is just broken, why would the thing fly after being hit by a 120mm shell but goes down instantly after hit by 20mm in the tail?
• The current mechanics discourage to use the aircraft as a transport and encourage to use it as a sniping platform. I don't really see it used that way though, after my 100ish hours in the game my impression that the first chopper in the gameis used as a transport and then becomes mostly irrelveant because it either gets shot down on approach or and that is the more important thing nobody spawns in it anyway.
• The think not being used after the start of the game as trasnport further hints to that there might be something wrong with it and that it is not capable of fulffilling it assigned role.

-> Solution would be IMO to drastically reduce the base HP of the heli, but increase survivablity of the crew and remove the gimmicky tail rotor hit

[deft jolt]

C4???

[deft jolt]

They’re still used for backcapping

[deft jolt]

RPGs are definitely a threat down low but flying low also means you fly erratically which helps to dodge

Never seen C4 used though

[odd stream]

@deft jolt sorry, when I spoke about vocal opinion leaders in this cancerous discord I have no interest to dicuss my feedback with I meant specifically you, so please don't take the lack of my response as a personal insult. cheers.

[vestal belfry]

alright, so we can basically ignore what he said if he's not gonna discuss it. good to know

[odd stream]

yes, as stated in the very first sentence of my feedback.

[deft jolt]

It’s fine. I can see why you struggle

[vestal belfry]

then why bother

[odd stream]

Reading the sentence may help

[vestal belfry]

you don't want to discuss anything, no point in writing anything, especially since it seems you don't know shit about flying a transport

[odd stream]

it is funny how you are unable to read

[deft jolt]

Please stop discussion. You said you would.

[odd stream]

but somehow you can

fascinating

[vestal belfry]

BTRs can aim to 20 degrees. you think they can hit you while up high?

C4 as a threat to helicopters, what a joke

[deft jolt]

Please tell me this isn’t the type of person Oki listens to

[deft jolt]

Well judging by his first statements it’d seem he lands outside of safe zone and got blown up probably

[vestal belfry]

apparently.

[deft jolt]

Still, tail rotor being affected by splash damage plus being one hit is an issue, but he also has a skill issue

I didn’t even mention skill issue until he said it before

[vestal belfry]

still want it to be a problem, but not an instant kill, let the pilot fight it if they are good enough

[steady delta]

i have had 1 time, 1 time a dude with c4 killed the heli. I congragulated with him, and rizzed him up for being such a good shot

[steady delta]

i agree with it

1 hit kill is the big issue rn

i cannot avoide the 3 to 4 units on big maps who are too afraid to go into fights due to c4, just staying out of the base and actuing as glorified AA

tanks arnt a issue here, its btrs and the rcb boat

rpgs im fine with

same with c4

buit pilot health and 1 shot rotor kills are biggest issue rn#

[vestal belfry]

https://youtu.be/-vRs5QZz7y8?si=0Wuvt7FwGkexA29z Lets give the pilots the ability to do this if the rotor gets shot out instead of just death, rewards the higher tier pilots, while still keeping the spin out for pilots who can't quite make it.

[deft jolt]

autorotatioon 🙏

[vestal belfry]

different than what I meant, but that would also be a bonus as well

[deft jolt]

i assume thats cutting the engine so you stop spinning which basically is autorotation

[vestal belfry]

not quite, at speed you don't spin as much, which is what you can do to fly here.

you can autorotate to deal with it as another option

[deft jolt]

arma 3 flight models look really simple

should work in this game too snce arcade

[vestal belfry]

its the same principal that you can do in real life, though most of the time autorotation is what you do, unless in a combat scenario

[deft jolt]

it's much harder in real life

[vestal belfry]

and simple flight model would work pretty well for this game

oh of course its much harder, but the steps are the same

there's also alot more that can go wrong

[deft jolt]

watching the arma hleicotper simply spin was a reminder that the game is still arcadey

[vestal belfry]

to be fair that's what happens in training sims and real life as well

[deft jolt]

spinning in place

[vestal belfry]

its just there is alot more to process than just a couple buttons and tilting

yeah, spinning in place does happen

and then a pilot tries to correct and it goes out of control

especially at low altitude

[deft jolt]

havent seen a video of it spinning in place

[vestal belfry]

of course weather conditions and wind also make it so spinning in place does not last long, and pilots are trained to throttle the hell up when it does happen, so if they start spinning its usually only 1 rotation maybe two depending on the speed of the spin

[deft jolt]

wouldnt make sense either

[deft jolt]

throttle?

[vestal belfry]

....yes?

[deft jolt]

why increase throttle

[vestal belfry]

to gain altitude

[deft jolt]

wouldnt loss of tail rotor give more engine power

[deft jolt]

throttle just changes engine rpm

[vestal belfry]

too low and you can't autorotate

[deft jolt]

doesnt mean more altitude

governors usually control throttle too

[vestal belfry]

it means more power to the rotors

[deft jolt]

unless theres some emergency power throttle position which

not sure many aricraft have it

[deft jolt]

it just means engines will spin faster

[vestal belfry]

increase power to gain altitude. "The throttle controls the power of the engine, which is connected to the rotor by a transmission. The throttle setting must maintain enough engine power to keep the rotor speed within the limits where the rotor produces enough lift for flight."

[deft jolt]

helciopters in hovers have cyclic & collective in conjunction with tail rotor

[deft jolt]

governors

and i'd assume loss of tail rotor would increase main rotor RPM

less of it diverted to tail rotor

[deft jolt]

losing tail rotor would throw this off, tail rotor doesnt just have yaw it also produces thrust to the side

x axis? or sometihng

and surge in engine power would throw it off and subsequently position

[vestal belfry]

so basically alot of talk to say "throttle controls engine power"

[deft jolt]

yes

[vestal belfry]

so we are right back to where we started

[deft jolt]

??

throttle increases engine power

engine power doesnt mean more lift

plus governor automatically regulates anyway

[vestal belfry]

the govenor is superceded by the throttle itself, unless the helicopter is a weird obscure design.

[deft jolt]

usualyl full forward is governor

not full forward but max setting

[vestal belfry]

and the pilots increase throttle, and other things because you want to be more technical, to gain altitude.

[deft jolt]

now

i'd assume

they'd use collective

and increase in collective would cause rotor rpm to drop which would mean governor would provide more engine power

and not stress the engine more

[vestal belfry]

that is tied into the throttle

[deft jolt]

what is

[vestal belfry]

like everything you are saying is tied into modern helicopters throttle control

governor and the collective.

[deft jolt]

collective is not tied into throttle

collective is independent of throttle

[deft jolt]

this

[deft jolt]

pilots increasing throttle would mean using emergency setting if present in aircraft

or increasing throttle normally in non governor aircraft

[vestal belfry]

so basically, you are talking very technical for "the pilot increases throttle, and possible changes the collective, to gain altitude and have space to regain control of the aircaft."

[deft jolt]

not possible changes to the collective

pilot leaves throttle alone and increases collective to gain altitude

same as in regular flight

[vestal belfry]

both of which are automatic in the blackhawk and tied to the throttle

[deft jolt]

collective

is not

automatic

and is not tied to the throttle

[vestal belfry]

blackhawk it is

doesn't seem normal, but thats what the Uh-60 has

[deft jolt]

how do you input to the helicopter

where you watn to go

without following n extremely limited amount of waypoints

collective is automatic yet anti-torque isnt?

that'd mean you'd have to use anti-torque reactively instead of proactively

[vestal belfry]

its meant for the autopilot on the uh-60s.

so hmm, technically we are both right

[deft jolt]

most modern helicopters have a form of auto-collective

saying it's simply automatic would mean the pilot has 0 authority

[vestal belfry]

anyway, you brought this entire thing along because you wanted to be technical for basically no reason

in game we have throttle and thats it

[deft jolt]

throttle and collective are very different

[vestal belfry]

they do the same damn things.

[deft jolt]

no

[vestal belfry]

and in fact are paired for a reason

[deft jolt]

they do not

theyre sometimes paired (throttle mounted on collective) because of ease of use

and for emergency usage/designers didnt feel like moving around panels

[vestal belfry]

they are paired in usage bud

[deft jolt]

they're paired in usage but not just flat out paired

[vestal belfry]

eh, modern turbines have them

pistons not so much

[deft jolt]

which helicopter doesn't have throttle

theyre seperate things

they perform seperate but related tasks

[vestal belfry]

ok, we get it you are well informed that you picked apart ingame helicopters lack of all available tech and controls

[deft jolt]

i picked up you said throttle instead of collective

earlier

[vestal belfry]

yeah, because that's laymans terms for increasing power/doing whatever the fuck you need to do to gain altitude because you are about to die

[deft jolt]

ok ok

[vestal belfry]

and in game, we have throttle