Designated Marksman Rifles (General) - Feedback

[zealous oasis]

nor should they outperform a sniper rifle at close ranges

but this thing called balancing exists

[fringe whale]

I mean a few sidearms are overtunned yes

[supple panther]

??

[zealous oasis]

whats the point of that

how does that apply to sidearms vs sniper rifles but not sidearms vs DMRs?

stop trying to use the M110 like a battle rifle lol

it isnt one. Oki could not make that more clear with the changes

if thats what you want, you have numerous guns that do play like that

[supple panther]

The M110 seems very balanced to me rn
The recoil is nice, the velocity is great, the damage is stellar... it's exactly what a good mid to long range DMR should feel like

[fringe whale]

Oki making weird balancing decisions is seperate

[brazen spire]

use g3...

[zealous oasis]

or the fuckin Fal lol

[fringe whale]

The gun was already bad in CQC, but the whole point of DMRs as a weapon class is they are functional at closer ranges as well as good at longer ranges.

If the guns are bad at close ranges literally just use a sniper

[zealous oasis]

as someone with 4000 kills on the MSR, i absolutely would not want to run into a M110 at 100m

[fringe whale]

In the DMR vs sniper fight, the sniper wins 9/10 times.

[supple panther]

I love running into snipers at 200m

😎

[zealous oasis]

can everyone spell "pulling statistics out of your ass"

[supple panther]

I even put the long barrel on the m110 because dang if I can do it I'll do it and make the 2 shot even more consistent

[fringe whale]

M110 has ~3x the rate of fire of a sniper, but takes 2-3x as many hits to kill. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[brazen spire]

yes it was but we got smg medics complaining and people doing flanks with it and putting it on yt calling it op (it never was)
if you get a flank with the usp and get a bunch of kills is it op? fuck no but w/e

[ocean mango]

@brazen spire has earned the Tier II Member role!

[fringe whale]

I mean if you are getting flanked by an M110 that is on you. It has an LMG level speed modifier and TERRIBLE ads speeds

[brazen spire]

oh god i have assended into an even cringer form 💀

[supple panther]

Look If it was up to me I wouldn't even have snipers in the game since DMRs are so much easier to balance and make diverse, but they are here to stay and they have to be worth it as a pick for the sake of balance

[fringe whale]

I'd also agree with no snipers. 0TTK guns are inherently a nightmare to balance

hence why there are no shotguns

[supple panther]

Still, the 110 is fine if you use it as intended

[fringe whale]

All the changes do is encourage me to sit in one place and use it like a sniper. At which point why am I not just using an M200 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[supple panther]

And I'd rather the 2 shot potential not be tied to attachments

[supple panther]

Because you can still do well at 100m, can get multiple kills with a lot more ease, can still do decently in a surprise encounter...

[brazen spire]

this, a sniper is best at that point
g3 or a sniper, current state of dmrs, we were so close yet oki yeeted us away from it again

[zealous oasis]

a 0-ttk shotgun is a very different thing from the 0-ttk snipers we currently have. even trying to compare them is disingenuous at best

[fringe whale]

Your ideal TTK is just okay, and if ANYTHING goes wrong you hit insane TTK levels that let anything turn on you. The difference between 400ms and 600ms ttk when you need 3 shots is just so huge

I mean shotguns and snipers are two sides of the same coin. They always belong in a conversation together due to how 0TTK warp games in general

I'd personally even argue shotguns are often less warping since they are more limited in many cases

[zealous oasis]

the way you say "yeah but ideal TTK cant be relied on" but in the same breath call snipers "0-ttk" is funny

[fringe whale]

Because one is in context of CQC and one is not

0TTK potential is the danger in snipers, not that they are always 0TTK

same for shotguns

[zealous oasis]

except at the ranges where a shotgun would be 0ttk, you have to hit a headshot on a sniper to get 0-ttk

if you miss, your ttk goes from 0 to nonexistent

[fringe whale]

I mean yes... they are different weapons... also not really important

[zealous oasis]

they are not apples to apples

they do not compare

[fringe whale]

They have the same core issues in that 0TTK is not very fun or interactive to play against

how they achive 0TTK is differnt yes, but also not on topic

[zealous oasis]

snipers are effectively not 0ttk in this game. very, VERY few people run irons on their sniper for CQC use

it simply is not something you will see

to the point its not worth discussing

[fringe whale]

O.o Snipers are 0TTK in this game in most cases. I am NOT talking about snipers at 10m... I am taking about the weapon class in general

no ideal what you are on about

[zealous oasis]

then what are you talking about

[fringe whale]

DMRs...

[zealous oasis]

but- you just said snipers

the fuck

[fringe whale]

Snipers got mentioned in passing and then you exploded on the topic

[zealous oasis]

because youre trying to compare the games current "0-ttk" sniper rifles to fucking shotguns lmao

[fringe whale]

no... I said Snipers and Shotguns are both problematic weapon classes to balance because they both represent 0TTK weapons.

[supple panther]

Well, I don't know about y'all but I can hold my own pretty well with the M110
I've gotten many clutches at close range with no issue, and at range that thing slaps
It may seem redundant since it already deals above 50, but I'd recommend trying out the long barrel on it, both for that extra 100 velocity, and extra damage that makes it even more consistent at 2 shot kills

[zealous oasis]

okay, thats a significantly more clear way of putting it. and i think oki made the absolute right choice of inverting the damage drop-off for snipers as a way of balancing them

[fringe whale]

I don't think long barrel really changes any 2 shot kill break points

[zealous oasis]

with the way bandaging works, it sorta does? kinda?

[supple panther]

It probably doesn't at full health, but idk it ends up feeling more consistent at range

Plus the recoil increase doesn't matter much, so you're not losing a whole lot

[zealous oasis]

you often dont have the time in the middle of a firefight to bandage a second time

[supple panther]

And that extra velocity ontop of a already super fast projectile is godly

[zealous oasis]

meaning plenty of people are stuck in the mid-50s health for a bit. the higher the damage, the more of those poor suckers you can pick off with a single shot

[blazing coral]

I mean I agree with everything else you’re saying but the whole point of a Semi Automatic Sniper System is to give you a higher rate of fire compared to a manually operated sniper system. Again, I agree with you, I’m just being pedantic because frankly I enjoy it.

[heavy quarry]

HB M110 = kill count everytime when u land an Headshot (80dmg), even if he heal full, when killed, you get the kill

[ornate sleet]

bob droppin the S.A.S.S. bombs

[unique apex]

Kinda agree with you there

It op to ppl who not farm 300 kills for LB before

[fringe whale]

The rate of fire nerf also means that best case rate of fire is now about the worst case rate of fire before, where you were shooting at 351 rpm and missing every timingand needing to wait twice as long to shoot followup shots (so ~175 actual rate of fire).

So the input buffer changes don't actually do much of anything now

And if you were not messing up every single input before you just shoot slower

[jagged jay]

250 or 225 rpm would be perfect for m110

it was over nerfed

Even just 225 would be good

[tulip warren]

42 damage mk14 when?

[pseudo juniper]

M110 is still good. it was unbalanced and it was brought back down to earth. it still fulfills a niche of being a DMR that kills someone in 2 shots when you can only see their feet

it still has a better TTK than most other DMRs (exceptions being G3, which really isn't a DMR let's be honest it's a battle rifle, and the SVD, which has a lot more recoil, so it's harder to take advantage of its full ROF)

while also outranging anything short of a sniper rifle. you can hit 2 bodyshots on someone who has no chance at fighting back and just outright kill them. 300 rpm was stupid, 200 rpm is far more reasonable

[tulip warren]

G3 is what the mk14 wishes it was like

[brazen spire]

nuh uh

[pseudo juniper]

yuh uh

it still feels good to use, and it doesn't feel nearly as shitty to get killed by. you have to consider both sides of the interaction, and frankly having the 2nd shot connect before you can physically react to the 1st shot was not fun

i abused it plenty and it was really, really stupid

[brazen spire]

i don't have good or bad enough internet for that to work
either kill me or piss of with that piece of junk
it feels veeeerrryyyyyy slow now...
so yes, nuh uh

[unique apex]

lol unbalance. I rather have it back to 49 damage than this friggin nerf

[raven parrot]

Even if you hit no armour, the TTK is worse than every other DMR.

The M110 also still has pretty high recoil for a DMR

[pseudo juniper]

MK20 is 0.343
M110 is 0.300
MK14 EBR is 0.300 and requires 3 shots
G3 is 0.240 but it's a battle rifle moreso than a DMR
SVD is 0.273 but it's harder to use

M110 is fine. it's still really good at what it does, and the only reasonable explanation for why someone would want to revert the nerf is that they miss abusing the weapon when it was blatantly unbalanced

[raven parrot]

I assume headshots are an existing factor, which in the case of the MK20 reduces the STK by 1 if a single headshot is hit. Apparently this likely happens often enough for most people to push the ttk to lower than that of the M110

[brazen spire]

it wasn't and using it as a br on cqc flanks is the enemies fault for letting that slow ass dude into their territory
and remember, a dmr is a sniper rifle that is capable of closer range tangos

[brazen spire]

i was killed by more mk20 with a 2 tap then m110, even before the nerf into irrelevance

[pseudo juniper]

i don't care about using the M110 up close. it was annoying but it was especially annoying when you could 2 tap someone's body out of their effective range, without them being able to physically react to the second shot

[pseudo juniper]

fun fact, getting a headshot is harder than getting a bodyshot. and if you have a helmet, they basically still need 3 shots, afaik

[raven parrot]

Up close was what seemed to be the reasoning behind the nerf

[brazen spire]

yes but with armor the m110 still is a 3sk

[raven parrot]

Even if we assume armour doesn’t exist again, its point blank ttk was only… decent

[pseudo juniper]

armor is frankly irrelevant

[raven parrot]

If you do hit armour it went down the drain

[pseudo juniper]

play support and see how many times exo armor saves you in an engagement

[raven parrot]

If only the game told you

Armour has a very real and measurable impact on the ttk of weapons

And everyone wears it

[pseudo juniper]

if exo armor is that useless, consider how insignificant normal armor is most of the time

[raven parrot]

It is significant.

[brazen spire]

i stopped playing it for that exact reason...

[raven parrot]

Most guns loose ~30% of their ttk speed from the existence of armour

[pseudo juniper]

it is not and it is honest to goodness a skill issue if you aim at armor instead of their limbs/neck

[raven parrot]

A gun like the M110 has it much worse

[pseudo juniper]

yeah, as support you'll often die to someone without them even touching your exo armor or exo helmet. and that covers so much more of your player model than normal armor

[raven parrot]

You have to pretty much always hit limb shots to avoid the implications of armour. Which often isn’t even possible considering sight lines and recoil

With a DMR it is more possible

But even so. It’s a factor

[brazen spire]

anyways the m110 feels overnerfed, just like bipod
oh and why don't we have the scorpion on assault?

[pseudo juniper]

now that's something i can get behind

it is the only instance of a class having access to a weapon type but not a specific weapon of that type. so fucking dumb

[brazen spire]

yessir and oki told me straight up the reason

nah just kidding he just said "it's intended"
yeah amazing...

[unique apex]

Man I miss my 49 damage m110 time

[fringe whale]

need to make sure medic has the coolest toys. It is a rule

[pseudo juniper]

ah yes, shift the blame on the evil medic boogeyman for an unbalanced weapon getting toned down my bad, thought you meant the M110

[brazen spire]

but that's what happened with this gun

[unique apex]

the old recoil was so much better the veloc buff is not really matter much for me

[fringe whale]

I mean... was talking about Assault not getting the Scorpion

I'd also heavily argue the M110 was not unbalanced but /shrug

[brazen spire]

okis smg medic bias 🤷

[supple panther]

The fact PDWs exist as their own category, having 2 carbines and a PDW in it, while the only other PDW in the game is classified as an SMG will forever be incredibly frustrating for my passable-at-best-gun-knowledge self

[blazing coral]

Idk about the groza but I’m pretty sure the og honey badger was marketed as a pdw.

It’s a crime the mp7 isn’t though.

[supple panther]

Well it was marketed as a gun for home defense, not a PDW
The honey badger is extremely similar to the AS Val, both of them firing a heavier than average subsonic rifle caliber round for the purposes of quieter than average short and medium range operation
PDWs(currently only the MP7 and the P90) were actual smgs and not carbines, and understood to be SMGs, just with the caviat that the smaller than rifle sized projectiles they fired were slightly more capable of piercing paratrooper armor at close range, they weren't made for personal defense in the sense of home defense, but explicitly made for military use for backline and logistics users to protect against aereal assaults

The groza is a shortened prototype AK, made in bulpulp configuration to be easier to use in close quarters situations and fill a role similar to the shorter M4s, which are also carbines

[blazing coral]

I am very well aware of the history of the NATO pdw program. I also know what the honey badger and the groza are and what the history of them is.

Minor correction though, neither the MP7 or P90 were ever capable of nor intended to pierce the Russian “paratrooper armor.” They were designed to be more effective against armor than pistol cartridges, but not intended to be effective against rifle rated armor. They were intended to defeat CRISAT armor.

[pseudo juniper]

the weapon types are all over the place, it's wack. AK5C and G36C literally have "carbine" in their names, yet aren't carbines

[oblique escarp]

||why is always the military-pals who have the worst takes on gun balance? dffdsdffsdaa||

[blazing coral]

Which take is that?

[supple panther]

oh, nice, i must have gotten my facts about the armor wrong, thanks for the heads up

[ornate sleet]

because theres not enough vehicles in this game to leak classified documents of

[brazen spire]

aswell as
m4 (carbine)
g36 COC-uhm carbine
ak5 carbine
honeybadger
as val
all those would be fit for "carbine"
reeeeeeeee the gun designation

[supple panther]

the c in the g36 is for compact i believe

which yea carbine

[blazing coral]

No worries, it’s one of those weird pervasive mini myths you often find in military history. 9hole reviews has a really interesting YouTube video on pdws though if you haven’t seen it.

[supple panther]

Oh, i need to get back into gun stuff, generally i'm not all that much into it unless the hyperfocus kicks in lol

[spare elm]

seeing all these people abuse the m110 now when they didnt even go through the 340 kill grind before 2 shot breakpoint pain

[supple panther]

honestly, i wouldn't call most of the takes bad, it's just that when you know just enough about guns, the weird dissonant shit starts to really show and trust me, it can become really annoying when you realize how horribly mutated they start to get
it's like seing a fucked up looking ferrari as a car nerd, it just hurts your soul

[ornate sleet]

thats gonna be me when they release the AN-94 and its another "hold left click full auto only" AR

[spare elm]

id be so pissed the 2 shot burst is cool

[supple panther]

or weird vehicle combat many games do where they inflate the vehicles' HP pool to hell and back while nerfing their offensive capabilities
if you have any knowledge on tanks whatsoever and it takes the other tank 6 sideshots to down you, you'll feel like running your nails through sandpaper

[oblique escarp]

yeah but, again, as i said before a lot, its a videogame, compromises need to be made and making something feel "good" "balanced" "right" comes before realism... when giving feedback, trowing back to how irl works doesnt help a bit

[pseudo juniper]

meanwhile 1 of the 2 carbines in the game is actually an SMG

[supple panther]

that's true, but i'm not exactly sure on how removing the PDW category and moving some of the lighter close range guns on the ar category would really mess balancing
the P90 could do with losing the headshot multiplier for instance

[supple panther]

It's weird to the point of comedy
The assault rifle category is ludicrously bloated, when half the guns that are a part of it should be on the category that has almost no guns

[supple panther]

Another thing i see is while sure, some gun folks do completely disregard balance, most don't, they've played enough games with guns in them to know some things work and some don't really

and expecially when it's a game like battlebit, a game that was structurally built with many aspects of milsim games, that has only recently taken a turn to more arcade-style gameplay, it's more than reasonable to expect people to chime in with their balancing ideas that revolve around the more realistic aspects of the game

[brazen spire]

aswell as not having the other "carbine"
oki "intended" isn't reason ffs

[fringe whale]

I mean knowing guns just makes you realize how none of the guns really resemble the real guns at all in these games

everything is just cosmetic, very little is taken from real world function if anything

and even outside of specific guns, the gunplay mechanics are also nonsense. Ballistics in this game basically do not exist

And sights are just cosmetic and non functional

[tulip warren]

I mean, we also don't look like steve minecraft irl

Id rather the guns be balanced than realistic

[fringe whale]

I'd rather we have both but /shrug

[tulip warren]

we can have both but its shown to be harder than it seems with how some ppl say a certain gun is good and others say its shit

harder than it seems to balance *

[fringe whale]

And you can still do damage and such tweaks with reasonable ballistics

and working sights :P

[blazing coral]

Really not sure what you mean by this part

[fringe whale]

Sights like holos and Acogs are setup and matched to specific caliber and barrel lengths. The markings then correspond to specific ranges of dropoff for that round at a sighted distance. This is known as a BDC (Bullet Drop Compensating) sight and is very common in service rifles. Then on snipes the marking instead correspond to fixed angular distances to allow you adjust to shooting conditions as needed with known measuruements, they also often including visual ranging tools for this purpose.

The only functional sights we have are for RPGs, and those are missing thier visual ranging indicators.

See the bottom right which is a visual range finder

[tulip warren]

yeah I agree

also flir needs more work

specifically the reticle is way too fuzzy

if it was as good as other sights it wouldn't be op since its still like 30fps. You would have to be shooting at a completely stationary target to get a kill consistently.

[blazing coral]

Please don’t try to explain all of that to me because I already have a very good understanding of how it works. I don’t mean to sound rude, but you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how that stuff actually works. It is not common for weapon sights to have bdc reticles. It’s certainly far rarer than the alternative, which is mil or moa markings. You have things like the TA31 ACOG which do have bdc reticles, but that only works when you know everyone using that specific model of scope is going to be firing the same projectile at the same speed out of the same gun.

Much more common is for scopes to feature mil or moa markings, which are hash marks spaced at a regular distance on the reticle. Those hash marks will have always have a certain distance between them, which allows them to be used to calculate ranges based off of the size of the target in the reticle, and also lets them be used to compensate for drop.

The eotech holographic reticle you’re thinking of is also specifically calibrated for specific loads with specific guns.

You cannot adjust either of those reticles. They are manufactured for a very specific weapon system firing a specific cartridge.

The reason bdc reticles aren’t very common in real life is the same reason they’re not in the game: it would be very complicated, difficult to implement, and it isn’t necessary.

[fringe whale]

I am aware of this but we have multiple sights with BDC setups that not functional

And they are extreamly common in real life on military weapons

[blazing coral]

Functional for what?

[fringe whale]

As in the sights inducate nothing.

[blazing coral]

The military bought a bunch of acogs for their guns that had the same barrel length and were firing the same cartridge. This isn’t an argument that makes sense for the game unless you want to bdc to work for the stock m4 and nothing else.

You can still use the marks on the scope to adjust for drop and to range.

You just have to figure it out yourself.

[fringe whale]

I mean it does though, we fire the same rounds out of the same barrel length on a ton of in game rifles. And calibrated sights exist for the others.

Being a game we also do not need to care nearly as much about the details of logistics and they are essier to implement here than real life

[blazing coral]

It would still be very complicated to have the scope adjust the reticle depending on the gun and the attachments. Just use the hash marks. It’s really not worth it. I don’t know of any games that do that.

Besides maybe arma or Tarkov or something

[fringe whale]

Not really, ballistics are static and trival to calculate for such markings

Most games don't bother, but not because it is hard to do so on a technical level

Even the mil markings are wrong which again is not a technically hard thing to get right

Instead they just did magic zeroing to remove range concerns

That and they made guns fire incredibly flat

[blazing coral]

The mil markings might not be actual mils but you can still use them. The scopes work just fine for that.

[fringe whale]

They are SOOO far apart

[blazing coral]

Yeah, that’s true. You can still use them for drop though. I do, genuinely all the time.

Wish the acog reticle was smaller though, it’s huge.

Though I’m gonna stop for now because this belongs in #1152897198267314246

[fringe whale]

I just to me is something that is very doable in this sort of game without really affecting balance, but doing a lot to make the guns feel more real ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[heavy quarry]

Go hipfire

[raven parrot]

using a 4x with no canted or top sight (and refusing to hip fire apparently) is just asking for this

[brazen spire]

literally, also a dmr? on salhan, a cqb map, what do you expect?

[blazing coral]

I dmr on salhan

It’s not bad either, you just have to move carefully and be intentional about what fights you take.

[ornate sleet]

Salhan is prime DMR territory

tf

[ornate sleet]

this is why you use ACOG + top red dot

love that sight but no top sight is a dealbreaker

[spice lintel]

Counterpoint: that clip is really funny

[spare elm]

contagious laughter fr

[zealous oasis]

counter-counterpoint; yeah i got none, that clip is a blast. Its frustrating when that sort of thing happens, but your "all-vibes, no angry" attitude is what all players should try to emulate

[spice lintel]

I’ve never used a topsight 🫣

[tall sequoia]

so you've used canted sights... right??

[dusty patio]

who here doesn't have a secondary sight on there dmr

[slim topaz]

Me. Switching is such a hassle and it adds like 10-40 ms to aim time. Hate that default switches back to main scope on respawn. Kinda a skill issue tbh lollers

[dusty patio]

I don't really care

Switching isn't much of a bother to me

[severe gull]

tentatively raises hand 4k kills on MK20, I'll never use a top or canted sight. If I miss while they are taking up 98% of the scope then that's my problem. And if it's CQC I think the foot steps are enough to know where enemies are going to come from. My secondary scope is my C4 🙂

[spice lintel]

Do people prefer the MK14 or the G3

[brazen spire]

Gewehr 3 weil deutsch
(G3 cuz german)

[vague rock]

G3 cause chunky sound and feel good

[ornate sleet]

G3 got that slap

[brazen spire]

got that funky magic german engineering for the reload aswell

[severe gull]

MK20

[zealous oasis]

i prefer the G3 over the Mk14. its less of a handful in my experience

[heavy quarry]

I prefer the MK14 suppressed sound

[zealous oasis]

cant beat the SVD suppressed sound in that regard. sometimes even you cant hear your own suppressed SVD

[raven parrot]

Only ways MK14 really beats G3 are lower recoil and faster reloads

[tulip warren]

If mk14 was 42 base damage than mk14 but atm the g3 is so much better

[fringe whale]

mk14 suffers from awful sound so regardless of anything else I will not use it

[heavy quarry]

Add suppressor 🥰

[dusty patio]

I kinda wish the G3 had a bipod

I've found that its fairly nice to have a bipod if you're gonna camp

[lapis nest]

bipod is dogshit wym

It's worse than some grip even when in bipod

[dusty patio]

I kinda like it

I just wish it had less vertical recoil

[fringe whale]

Bipod just makes the gun worse

[lapis nest]

Just use BCM if you want no horizontal and vertical if you want no vertical

[unique apex]

Bipod actually have advantage that is when deployed it give both horizontal and vertical but I don't think it needed

[lapis nest]

an urk gives more than the bipod deployed, think about that

[unkempt meadow]

they should honestly buff bipod and make it support and sniper rifle exclusive

[brazen spire]

buff? FIX.
bipod a grip smh...

[unkempt meadow]

true

like make it a gadget or something, slow to activate and put away but very good in use

mf has to stand still to use it, easiest target ever

[brazen spire]

no part of the guns that have one irl

[unkempt meadow]

im saying as one for only support and recon on snipers, so basicly that

[spice lintel]

Bipod should be uhh 0.001 recoil

[ornate sleet]

and the Scorpion EVO

[hexed python]

G3 is awesome balanced gun. BTW its the only gun that CANNOT hit same point 3 times in a row. All guns should be like G3.
But in current balance G3 is useless trash.

[spice lintel]

what makes the g3 better than the mk14
ppl: the sound 🎵

i prestiged again and ive been using the mk20, its pretty damn tight

when i hit 40 you jus know im gonna go back to the m110

[twin rivet]

It's green and loud

[spice lintel]

camo:

[twin rivet]

But by default

[tulip warren]

42 base damage mk14 when?

[lapis nest]

Imagine having less damage than an AR, oh wait

[quick quarry]

Imagine that EBR can full auto very far when you've peppega recoil with SCAR or FAL

[lapis nest]

Imagine not using the Mk20 at that range instead

[quick quarry]

And why not keep using the EBR.. when you can auto with it.. ?

[lapis nest]

Idk, more damage? Less visual recoil? Better velocity?

More bullets?

[pseudo juniper]

MK14 is borderline unusable full auto

you're better off using the G3, SCAR, or FAL

[raven parrot]

Why’s that? It has very low recoil.

A bit better than G3 imo and tap firing with a scar or FAL will be much less consistent

[pseudo juniper]

actually you're right, i forgot oki brought down the vertical recoil from 2.2 (lol) to 1.3

[quick quarry]

nah it's great, I destroyed 4 guys on Azagor with a full mag on full auto at 70m

Sounds like a skill issue

[quick quarry]

I've to say that it's true G3 is more consistent, low recoil and almost same RoF

[raven parrot]

G3 just kills a little faster in exchange for a little worse recoil

[quick quarry]

Yeah but you've the 1st shot kick for a DMR pretty problematic because you often burst, with attachments you'll have less feeling of recoil with G3 than EBR also because it's smoother with that 500 RoF make you more able to drop the mouse bit by bit that doing more heavy movement

[raven parrot]

I do take 1st shot kick into account but how important it is is kinda subjective

[quick quarry]

It makes high variation compared to lower in general because you swap target to target

[tulip warren]

And nerfed horizontal recoil. So it’s a win/lose.

It should have retained its 1.0 horizontal imo

[zealous oasis]

horizontal and vertical recoils dont happen on quite the same scales

so an increase from, for example, 1.0 -> 2.0 horizontal recoil and a reduction from 2.0 -> 1.0 vertical recoil is actually a net-reduction of overall recoil

so take that how you will

i also only really care about hori recoil on full-auto guns. it has to be pretty absurdly high on a semi-auto to actually be intrusive in a way i cant counteract

[tulip warren]

If the mk14 had 42 base damage (same for svd) it’d be a much better gun. Atm it’s just a worse scar tbh.

[quick quarry]

I think you never tried to full auto with the scar at 100m and try the same with ebr

[tulip warren]

[quick quarry]

Basically you

Let's do some maths

SCAR-H : 1.6/2.1/1.0 500RoF, fall off dmg = 150 to 280~
EBR : 1.3/1.2/1.5 400RoF, fall off dmg = it's a DMR

Farkin telling us : bUt gUyS itS a w0rSe Sc4R
Me telling him : Try to full auto at 100m+ with 500RoF 1.6/2.1 with high dmg fall of, compared to EBR no recoil, no dmg fall off

Thank you guys

[tulip warren]

I'm just gonna drop this here, you should prlly stop talking or you'll look like more of a clown. Also, who full auto's at 100m? Are you stupid?

[quick quarry]

because you've 2.5k kills it changes the weapon?

[quick quarry]

you can do it with EBR because it has 0 recoil but thing is you did 2.5 kills and you're saying that EBR is a worse SCAR
under the fall off dmg breakpoint you can tapfire way faster with EBR (actually max speed almost) when on SCAR you'll never be able because of the recoil
and then at 300m you loose all of your dmg with SCAR, so yeah, it's way weaker than SCAR 70m less fight ~, but the weapon being full auto slow RoF 0 recoil make it full laser after the 1st bullet with 1st recoill

[tulip warren]

It is, I have more experience using it than you do. When you use the mk14 at or past 100m full autoing is useless. And you won't get the majority of your kills past 100m either. It's best used around 70m-80m but because its a dmr you have the option to engage snipers with it. So compared to the scar, which does everything it does at the range you should be using it, but better, it's lacking. If the mk14 had less horizontal recoil and base 42 damage this would make it much easier to full auto with at the range its best used at.

[quick quarry]

Why it'd be actual much easier to full auto if it's 42dmg at 100m when you actually still 3sk (100hp) people with it?

You're just talking about hrecoil?

I think it's fine as it is
The solution is actually the reverse maybe we should nerf big AR guns making the fall off drop to 250m like that DMR will be more viable on shorter range (not a lot but still)
Then buff other thing on SCAR like recoil because actually FAL is overaul better for close and mid fights

[tulip warren]

Yeah thats what I'm saying, give mk14 42 base damage so it can three shot bodyshot and give it back its original horizontal value of 1.0

It's still going to be inferior to any AR because of the mag size and rate of fire but at least you'll be able to full auto at longer ranges.

[quick quarry]

It's already 3sk

[tulip warren]

Makes it more of a precision based weapon when you lower horizontal recoil.

40 x 3 is 120, standard body armor is 125

So you need a fourth shot

Atm all I use is the long barrel because it lets me do that

Alongside the accuracy and velocity buff but thats another thing entirely

[quick quarry]

yeah if you shoot on armor, I don't have that problem on most EBR kills because I often land a shoot in head most of the time (I don't play EBR aggro I prefer using SVD for that)

and on prone target you'll mostly only it uncovered hitboxes

If you play LB I can understand more your though about the SCAR but still it's vertical recoil when on SCAR you'll go FH (at least I'm doing that)

[quick quarry]

yeah but accuracy only matter for "very" long range so I think it's still debatable without taking that into account
but I don't think it obviously has to be better than SCAR, why not playing G3 if you want lower recoil and higher RoF?

Imo the problem is still that the SCAR and others "heavy AR" have too little dmg fall off, actually competing with LMG and DMR (so putting a problem in those two categories)

[tulip warren]

Yeah idk, my issue with the mk14 is that it plays like a more accurate but slower scar-h. And you end up engaging opponents at basically the same range you would if you had used a scar, and you would even be able to do cqc if you had just used a scar to begin with.

[quick quarry]

For me it's the big problem of : you can use it like that, but it's not "made" to

[tulip warren]

Unironically the ak74 is probably the best guns to full auto at longer ranges, and its because of their low horizontal recoil

[quick quarry]

yeah

[tulip warren]

Yeah exactly

[quick quarry]

Fr, the base problem is imo the best guns right now, they're driving the balance of least used weapons, and force the balacing around them, the problem is because of that it'll also put balance problems on guns that can do the same job

ending up by having EBR in a kind of weird spot, SCAR same

[unkempt meadow]

my lukewarm take is all DMRs other then the g3 cause its weird should disregard normal and below armor atleast

[quick quarry]

because in reality even SCAR-H is not that good, it's great when you master hit it with 1hs1bs but others AR are way easier to use (even now AUG)

[quick quarry]

that reminds me M16A4 BF3, jacks of all trades but master at everything on big players

[spice lintel]

Man really posted his mk14 kills brah

[raven parrot]

AUG is a totally different specialisation to SCAR

SCAR is really more of a CQC rifle unless you try to use it like a DMR, where, surprise, a DMR does better

[quick quarry]

Its better midrange than CQC because of low ttk and way easier to aim for head with low rof, also FAL does its job but better on cqc to midrange

[raven parrot]

It has high recoil. That by itself makes it quite unsuitable there

High recoil + quick ttk = close range

[pseudo juniper]

SCAR kinda sucks in CQC. 500 rof is painful

it excels in mid range

[jagged jay]

Wtf is this thread

Scar?

Cqc?

No

Just no

[slim topaz]

SCAR .2 ads goes kinda hard

[raven parrot]

Fast ttk + high recoil

Also fast aimdown time

[quick quarry]

Sniper rifle for CQC then

[slim topaz]

Imagine a sniper with .2 ads speed

[quick quarry]

I mean when you're rushing with sniper rifle in "cqc" (more midrange) you're often preaiming

but yeah it could be something if they decide to rework all snipers and give some a funny gameplay, like fast reload, fast ADS but no 1sk in heal if helmet

not DMR feedback tho

[raven parrot]

Snipers only have fast close range ttk if you’re really good at headshots and only fighting one person at a time

So not really

They also have pretty low recoil by my metrics, just because of a slow fire rate

[quick quarry]

the game is too fast to allow that in a very meta maneer I assume it'll never be something real because of how powerfull some ARs, SMG and more => Assault/Medic compared to Recon

[quick quarry]

because you 1sk HS you don't really care about recoil, basically Sniper rifle has 0 recoil (you can't shoot anyway you're chambering a new bullet)

[raven parrot]

Yeah, it was just brought up because it was relevant to how I defined the scar as a CQC weapon

Snipers and full auto weapons are not comparable

[snow crescent]

Whack them over the head

[quick quarry]

[zealous oasis]

tbf, among all the guns in the game, the sniper rifles would be by far the most lethal when use as a melee weapon. theyre not light but theyre not heavy, and theyre long as fuck, so you can really give someone a good whack by holding the end of the barrel and just swinging it real hard. that sounds fun as hell

[snow crescent]

Quick Melee

[zealous oasis]

nah itd be the slow melee. one-hit kill, but if you miss youre fucked

[snow crescent]

Halo Announcer: NNNNINJA!

[lapis nest]

Which weapon would be best as melee tho... snipers would be too heavy as staffs or blunt weapons (Historical mace and staff are not that heavy)

[zealous oasis]

sniper rifles arent heavy either lol

theyre just heavier than, say, an AR. but ARs heavy in the first place (and there are plenty of sniper rifles that are lighter than most ARs too)

[lapis nest]

A zweihander is lighter than a remington 700 fyi, and zweihanders are the big ass double handed swords

They are heavy as fuck in sword standard

[zealous oasis]

but why are you measuring them by sword standards. they aint swords

a) theyre guns, 2) measure them by blunt weapon standards if anything

[lapis nest]

meh

Shotguns are lighter, thiccer, and more ergonomic

Also pistol would be better at blunting, acting like a 1 handed club

[zealous oasis]

why are we talking about shotguns now??

also a pistol has like, zero reach. with a rifle, you can really swing that sucker, and theres gonna be a LOT of energy at the edge of the swing

and the longer the rifle, the higher the angular velocity at the end of it

[lapis nest]

Yea, and if you miss they can reach you before you can stop the swing lol

[zealous oasis]

wait why are we even debating this at all lol

[zealous oasis]

do a twirl

[lapis nest]

idk i'm bored

too late

[zealous oasis]

its never too late for RifleNado

[lapis nest]

whacking people with an rpg

[zealous oasis]

give this man an award

[ornate sleet]

idk might make the 69 kill SSG skin op

[zealous oasis]

😯

[brazen spire]

a Zweihänder has a blade.
does your gun have a blade?
we obviously don't have bayonetts floating in this conversation, why not tho?

[zealous oasis]

because floating bayonettes would be dangerous

duh

[brazen spire]

triangular bayonett or too scared of battling the bits when remastering.

[zealous oasis]

hwat

[brazen spire]

sorry don't mind my degenerate crazy talk

[zealous oasis]

nah, cook

i just wanna know what it is youre cookin

[lapis nest]

What is bro cooking

[zealous oasis]

i guess we will never know

[brazen spire]

uhh i never cooked anything
i just lost more braincells than i had
negative braincells, can only recommend 10/10

[spice lintel]

DMR QUESTION !
What DMR do you want added to the game ?

[ornate sleet]

give me some of the good ol bullpup boys to really differentiate the category. RFB, Type 88,

[heavy quarry]

VSS Vintorez

And a SKS with tactical stock ( maybe wood stock with a premium skin 👌🏻 )

[ornate sleet]

I would have said VSS but I have no idea where to put it.

Plus we kind of already have it with the twitch skin for the val

[zealous oasis]

not to mention, pretty much literally the only difference between a vintorez and an AS val is the wood stock. ballistically theyre practically identical

[jagged jay]

vss vintorez and modernized sks

[blazing coral]

I want a bullpup DMR of some sort to be added. Ideally one of the shiny new ones chambered in some sort of 6.8 cartridge.

~60 damage, 150 rpm, relatively high recoil, high handling.

[zealous oasis]

youre gonna hate me for this....
QBU-88

[blazing coral]

Disgusting and not in a good way.

Fucking 5.8x42

No

[zealous oasis]

lmao

[blazing coral]

Keep that shit away from me

Fuck you for mentioning that god dammit

:(

[zealous oasis]

but

[blazing coral]

But fuckin what

No

No

No

[zealous oasis]

look at it!

why is that a jfif

what the fuck is a jfif

[blazing coral]

It’s ugly

And so is the anime girl

[zealous oasis]

its not anime, its a video game

[blazing coral]

Not the ugliest bullpup I’ve ever seen to be fair, because frankly bullpups either look great or they’re disgusting.

But it’s ugly

[zealous oasis]

nah

youre wrong im right

add QBU 88

[blazing coral]

I’m excited for SHOT 2024 because we finally get to find out if the black rain commando is trendy vaporware bullshit or if it’s actually gonna be any good.

I’m hoping for the latter but I have no idea

[zealous oasis]

enlighten me

become my google

my... Gungle?

[blazing coral]

Basically there’s a dude who’s apparently a former seal and he and his buddy have been trying to design a marksman/sniper rifle for like 8 years. They finally found a company who’s working with them to prototype and it’s apparently gonna be available q1 2024.

It’s a bullpup semiautomatic precision rifle designed to be chambered in a number of different cartridges including the new 6.8x51mm

The thing is, we still don’t know a lot about it besides the marketing schpiel the guy gave at SHOT last year. And if any of it’s true it’s gonna be a really interesting and exciting gun but we just don’t know

And also quite frankly the guy is a bit of a nut job so it’s even more uncertain

[zealous oasis]

well, hopefully theres someone from the Corps of Engineers mixed in with that project, not sure a seal could engineer a gun lol

[blazing coral]

Looks cool as shit though lol lemme find a picture

[blazing coral]

His buddy is an engineer I think, he basically went “this is my dream rifle” and worked with engineers to make it.

[zealous oasis]

damn, might actually bear fruit then

[blazing coral]

Hope it works as good as it looks

Because it looks real fuckin good lol

[blazing coral]

Fingers crossed

[zealous oasis]

holy shit

[blazing coral]

Yeah

[zealous oasis]

i still want QBU 88 tho

[blazing coral]

😡

[zealous oasis]

look, your guns choose you, you dont choose your guns

[blazing coral]

Unchoose yourself

[zealous oasis]

if only i could

[snow crescent]

Terminal velocity should help with that

[zealous oasis]

i tried. then a medic crushed my dreams by reviving me

[hallow totem]

please seperate into Marksman rifles and Battle Rifles.

[spice lintel]

DMR squad !

[dusty patio]

I'm pretty sure half of dmr squad is just the misrepresented battle rifle squad

[hallow totem]

so when we get m16, does slapping a scope on make it a DMR like it does IRL?

[zealous oasis]

thats the question

[lapis nest]

Semi auto AK as DMR

[blazing coral]

No

[hallow totem]

slap a scope on it and it would be a DMR lol

[fringe whale]

l129a1 sharpshooter, we need an AR-10 platform

[signal bronze]

I mean, we technically kinda already do with the M110.

[fringe whale]

sort of. If you want to force more difference do the L129A2 in 6.5mm ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[zealous oasis]

if you ask me, that would be awesome as a magazine(ammo) attachment for, say, the M110, as opposed adding a rifle thats pretty similar to one we already have

[unkempt meadow]

id like a bullpup DMR personally. SVU or MDRx maybe

[fringe whale]

I mean there are a lot of differences between the M110 and the l129 /shrug. Just like there are differences between the AKs we have

[scarlet topaz]

40x when

[paper fjord]

The M110 was designed by the same guy who made the AR-10, His Holiness Eugene Stoner.

[tulip warren]

40x scope on deagle when?

[snow crescent]

anything is a long range weapon if you try long enough

[arctic river]

Don't know if it's a bug, but the MK20 feels like it sucks again, the stats feel unmodified regardless of what attachments are used

specifically accuravy and velocity

mk20 should have higher velocity than M110 but feels faaar less

[severe gull]

If its any consolation I have 5.7k kills on it and it feels the same to me even after this last update. It definitely could be a server thing though. I've had some really weird couple of minutes were the hit reg seems off.

[snow crescent]

He’s doing it fellas

[signal bronze]

have you tried it with the suppressor recently? it seems like there's no actual effect change for at least muzzle and sound blast.

verified with a friend on a live server.

[arctic river]

yea, I have a feeling attchments aren't working properly for Mk20

[scarlet topaz]

40x when

[jagged jay]

shut the fuck up when?

[scarlet topaz]

manguh

so 40x when

[arctic river]

Monkeys paw: 40x but scope glint is 4x as big

[ornate sleet]

400x scope with 40x the glint. ADS for a flashbang

[zealous oasis]

a portable lighthouse

[signal bronze]

Wouldn't mind giving the 8x/15x magnified optic for DMRs, as long as both optics only are available to the Recon Class. Everybody else with access to DMRs only get the current 6x.

They still need 2 headshots to kill anyways.

[paper fjord]

Hardly anyone uses the 6x since all long-range scopes have the sniper glint effect.

[arctic river]

I use 6x sometimes for midrange DMR because scope glint doesnt matter at that distance and it's funny a f

[brazen spire]

anyone think these are op with a bipod 👀

[ornate sleet]

Honestly no. You are a much, much easier target for proper sniper fire, bipod ultimaxes, etc in exchange for easier recoil management

Feels balanced to me from a night of trying it out

[supple panther]

I feel like you could have some basic movespeed penalty to pull it down a slight bit BUT I do agree having to think more carefully about when and where to position yourself and need to commit to it at least a slight bit is already a big penalty in a game like BBR
I see bipods a bit more often now, but I wouldn't say they are super far from balanced now

[cyan swallow]

DMrs were overbuffed

[jagged jay]

how

also u are like 2 months late to this topic

[cyan swallow]

They just were

[jagged jay]

stop baiting bro they released the dmr buff like 2 months ago

[signal bronze]

"It is because I say so!"

• @cyan swallow

seriously though, I don't see it.

[ornate sleet]

If the m110 was still a 2 shot at 350 rpm with the new bipods, maybe

But at this point a bipod DMR is just an m200 with extra steps

Slower, clunkier, etc

[pseudo juniper]

i think they're in a good spot right now. M110 was really overtuned but it got brought down to earth. now DMRs are very viable mid to long range options

they're also like, really good for countersniping. you can lean spam to make sure you don't get headshot, and at that point you have the upper hand since you'll kill them before they can shoot again

[spice lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/correct-plankton-gif-14118231

[tulip warren]

Bipods are even better too

kinda weird the m14 has a higher base accuracy than the mk20 tho

[hallow totem]

well the mk.14 was fucking accurate as shit off the assembly line. and would immediately lose that once the armorers got to it and disassembled it.

[paper fjord]

Both the MK14 and MK 20 can be very accurate rifles IRL.

It’s just that the SCAR MK 20, being a more modern design, was able to keep that accuracy better which is why SOCOM still uses the MK 20.

[hallow totem]

the mk.14 is from like 10 years before. pretty modern design all things considered

its problem was less how accurate it was, it was one of the most accurate rifles ever used by the military, it was how complex it was. meaning you needed to be specially trained in its functions to keep it as accurate as it was of the assembly line. most armorers were not specially trained.

[paper fjord]

Mk 14 is basically M14 in a new stock, if memory serves me right.

The M14 can be made to be very accurate, but disassembly could cause it to lose accuracy.

[hallow totem]

mk.14 was designed very separately. the entire body is different.

[dusty patio]

Can anyone direct me to the forum where you suggest weapons

[jagged jay]

#1170727258537865367

[stray carbon]

Tfw i can autoclick uwu

[pseudo juniper]

damn you're so good at cheating!

[cedar karma]

I'd love to see the proper clipsizes for DMRs. Mk20 with 12 shot clip just feels wrong. Same for most of the others.

[brazen spire]

those are magazines

[cedar karma]

good enough

[paper fjord]

MK 20 has a 16-round capacity.

M110 has 12.

[signal bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/loading-shots-fired-loading-clips-gif-12464938

[paper fjord]

Realistically, all DMRs except the SVD should have 20 rounds in the mag. SVD would the outlier with only 10 rounds in the mag. MK 20 could have 20, but the model for the default mag is the 10-round mag.

As far as I care, appropriate mag capacity is a matter of game balance.

[raven parrot]

Nah that would be dumb for balance

[signal bronze]

I'm fine with proper magazine capacity as long as that equates to lower bullet velocity.

roughly 700-ish

[stray carbon]

Not cheating im just on steam deck. I dont even have a mouse and autoclicking is only good on pistols and dmrs.

And I cant aim so i dont use drms

I already get absolutely buttfucked in every game i play so the fact that i could autoclick doesnt do much

[stray carbon]

700miles per second yes

[jagged jay]

that was the issue with dmrs pre buff 💀

you couldnt hit shit cause the velocity was so bad

[stray carbon]

Considering most people just full auto even at mid range if dmrs didnt have the velocity they have now they’d be pointless

[ornate sleet]

DMRs removed from everything but Recon

game over

[signal bronze]

honestly, it ain't that bad imo.

most everybody having access to something that can 3-tap kill up to 350m out just reduces the purpose of recons.

limiting DMRs to only recons will have other classes play more like their intended playstyles, while also increasing the viability of DMR recons as a whole, since they also gave med scopes a (comparatively smaller to the high scopes) glint for sniper rifles.

now, just let the DMRs have access to the 8x and 15x. it'll be perfect then.

[unkempt meadow]

its pretty bad being removed from assault, the ads. reload and swaps speed are borderline required to play them even slightly aggro

to be clear im not talking using it like an smg i mean just actually pushing and suporting your team from like 100m

[unkempt meadow]

thank god oki revised the list

[ornate sleet]

Oki heard our despair

[ornate sleet]

is there anything as satisfying as that range sweet spot

[severe gull]

I don't mind a massive overhaul every couple of weeks to change things up and keep it interesting. Buff pistol dmg to 90 for a week. Lower it next week. XD

[signal bronze]

i'm still waiting for the P90 to do 21 dmg instead of 28

[raven parrot]

Why

[signal bronze]

in connection to what Google said above regarding overhauls.

P90 is way too strong currently imo. it wouldn't be a P90 if it didn't have a high RoF and 50 round mags. that's it's most prominent feature.

but 28 damage along with it? that's too much imo.

knock down the damage to 21, but also reduce hori/vert recoil, to balance it out.

not connected to DMR feedback though, so yeah.

[raven parrot]

a lot of people are arguing it's not very good already, but knocking down damage to 21??? It would certainly become the worst primary in the game, though pp-19 might still be a contender :p

[hallow totem]

did the p90 get buffed or something?

[snow crescent]

i didnt know the P90 was a DMR...

crazy

[jagged jay]

p90 is fine

[signal bronze]

sometimes, it sure does feel like it.

[hallow totem]

that's just cause its ammo capacity, cause unless it got buffed alot recently it was pretty average.

[signal bronze]

just my opinion. 24 would be fine too, as long as there's a reduced recoil along with it to balance.

anyways, this is the wrong chat for it.

Mk.20 suppressors aren't working properly recently. no audio change between suppressed and non-suppressed.

[brazen spire]

5sk at 800rpm just naw, also wtf are you doing in the dmr feedback, just search for pdws or p90 ffs

[cedar karma]

We could just take their lowest
clipsizes as default and leave the 20 rounders to extended
might be a decent tweak
10 rounds, 15 rounds, and suchsoforth

[cedar karma]

6sk at 900 rpm
:-)

[brazen spire]

that's worse than the glock 💀

[cedar karma]

its 5,7mm ammo
did... did you expect high performance lmao
but in all seriousness 5sk at 900rpm sounds decent enough
give it good stability and slightly extended effective range maybe

[hallow totem]

yeah it kill about average, but the mag size and how controllable it is makes up for it(also 5.7 would do alot better than a 9mm glock v anything even slightly armored)

[brazen spire]

i am aware, the ump fires .45acp, f2k fires 5.56, the mg36 fires 5.56, the g36c fires 5.56 and so on, damage isn't consistant what so ever

and nerfing a fine gun is just dumb

[stray carbon]

No game is gonna be 100% consistent to damage based on calibers. Tho i agree its pretty funny to see an UMP out damage most rifles

45ACP>556 confirmed

[vague rock]

Remember, 9mm may kill the body, but .45 ACP kills the soul

[plucky plover]

So like, what's the practical difference between DMRs and Battle Rifles after the split?

[stray carbon]

A lot. Dmrs consistently have higher velocity. Kill in 2-3 shots at medium-long range. Aren’t usually full auto, if they are then lower firerate

Just use em and you’ll see

[brazen spire]

dmrs are semi auto snipers and battle rifles are higher caliber assault rifles with more range

[signal bronze]

the G3 still has the DMR damage range model, while the others have the standard Rifle damage range model

[brazen spire]

seems like a really dumb oversight yeah

[cedar karma]

personally the low fire rate stable recoil and lower damage is pretty comfy

[ornate sleet]

yeah sometimes stability is underrated. like how the AK can laserbeam out to ~150m

[stray carbon]

Partially why i struggled with the AK15 so much. I treated it like i would any other gun and thought I could full auto at mid range. But you really can’t.

Its better to not engage at all if you’re not in a good range for your gun

[raven parrot]

Can burst fire alright though. A lot of people have guns like SMGs and they will loose to that.

[stray carbon]

I mean. Kind of? Depending on the range you can only really tap fire, while other weapons like (every AR) can just full auto and probably kill you before you get them

Tho that issue doesn’t happen as much with the range and damage changes for weapons

[raven parrot]

If you see them first it’s quite hard for them to kill you even with a more appropriate weapon assuming you aren’t too far away

[stray carbon]

For me and my dumbass aim 200 metres is too far

[tulip warren]

This, and I hope the devs make it clearer with more updates

[stray carbon]

Its in the battle rifle category now. Makes it a bit clearer but still, it’ll just depend on recoil

[signal bronze]

Help guys, remind me a bit.

Recon Class + DMR + Medium Scopes = w/ Glint?

[snow crescent]

No Glint

[cedar karma]

tbh i think battle rifles would be better off being lower damage and more stable
give them extended range profiles

[brazen spire]

ah yes the 7.62 caliber guns having low recoil

[tulip warren]

even if its a 6x scope now

[hallow totem]

they do if they are heavy as fuck

[signal bronze]

you sure?

I've been seeing more countersnipers when I use the 6x on the M110

meaning it's likely there's a glint on it

[tulip warren]

The patch notes say glint is only for sniper rifles

[brazen spire]

g3 with 4.5kg vs mg3 with 13kg (the mg3 still has some serious kick)

[signal bronze]

i'm asking if "no glint on 6x scope DMRs" is verified true in a match.

because unfortunately, we can't verify it ourselves or with friends without going on a live match

[hallow totem]

its the mg3 and if it fires a single round there is no kick to the user. mg3 has kick because of its firerate.

[hallow totem]

long scopes all have glint, but its greatly reduced from what it was

[brazen spire]

m60?
but anyways i just wanted to show that even an mg3 has kick and it weighs a lot more than a fal or g3, regarding your "more weight less recoil" which is true but doesn't really apply to the brs in bbr

[hallow totem]

Snipers(bolts) have it on medium scopes. both medium and long have glint be much more focused and not far beyond where you are looking and can actually see

[signal bronze]

that goes directly against @tulip warren's statement then.

I understand the glint reduction, but I just want to know verifiably if what Farkin said is true or not.

I'm leaning on not, since it IS a 6x high scope, but a man can dream of having a no glint 6x on a DMR.

[hallow totem]

m60, also doesn't kick all that much beyond shaking in place and jumping side to side, depending if you are shoulder firing or prone

[hallow totem]

yeah no it still a long scope so it still has glint

its just greatly reduced

[brazen spire]

well it shoots slower 🤷
but again, a lot of kick with brs, no point denying that
in fact, they were practically useless in f/a unless really close

[signal bronze]

by greatly reduced, what do you mean?

1. glint size
2. glint "angle"

I know both are true, but that's for bolt guns. I'm talking about DMRs.

There should be zero glint on DMR + med, but what's the glint situation on DMR + high?

Is it the same as a bolt + high? or bolt + med?

[hallow totem]

a long range scope is a long range scope

mediums on snipers ar ethe only big change

ah. so right now long range scopes are still set to 20 degree glint angle.

next update it will be lowered to a degree or two from what you can actually see with your scope

[tulip warren]

🤷‍♂️

[tulip warren]

thats not what it says in the patch notes

[hallow totem]

what you posted literally says nothing about long range scopes

6x is a long range scope

[tulip warren]

Ah right, yeah youre right then

[stray carbon]

Rip

[signal bronze]

just saw the changes for Basra. I hope I can still do my 1600m kills there. Just need someone to stay still for 3 seconds for new longest DMR kill with it.

[stray carbon]

Im sure you can find a sleepy recon

[cedar karma]

recoil can be somewhat significant but they're pretty slow firing
humans are great at controlling recoil up to like 500rpm and above 1000, apparently

the problem with this game is that ranges are so short
æ

[stray carbon]

Someone watched forgotten weapons

[cedar karma]

What?

[stray carbon]

Ian mentions the same. Humans are usually good at 500Rpm 1000rpm

[upbeat kayak]

I don't get why put any first shot kick multiplier on simi-auto DMRs. And why having that kick on mk14ebr?

I also don't get why mk14 and SVD have so little damage. They literally can't 1 head shot + 1 body shot past 400-500. That the point of them then?

I don't get why smaller mag size reduces weapon accuracy

[raven parrot]

If you’re gonna have DMRs with a higher fire rate than the others they need a downside.

And if you’re not, then you just have a lot less variety in the class

[ornate sleet]

yeah some of the DMRs are meant for closer ranges, like picking people off in the 100-200m bracket and they do that extremely well

MK20 chads can double-tap M110s/snipers out to ~500m if they can hit their headshot

EBR loses its two-tap by 200m but is much better suited to close combat

[upbeat kayak]

At this point AUG just slaps them all. More ammo, more DPS, more accurate, way more pleasant too shoot

[ornate sleet]

maybe, but that's an AUG problem not a "DMRs need megabuffs" problem imo

[upbeat kayak]

DMR currently need no buffs, they all great aside from mk14.

maaaaaybe SVD a bit underpowered, but still ok

[ornate sleet]

The only buff I'd like to see is taking the first shot kick off the EBR

bc that just makes its full auto feel bad

[upbeat kayak]

That's only buff it needs ttbh

[ornate sleet]

SVD is extremely high potential, saw someone with really good aim go to fucking town and got pilled on it, especially back when the meta was no armor, no helmet lol

[raven parrot]

SVD is the DMR with the best ttk so I'd say it's in a good place

[upbeat kayak]

Okay, fair enough

[cedar karma]

oh.

[stray carbon]

Just throw a 2x optic on it and go to town

[tulip warren]

Yep, imo same for svd maybe. Have them as 1.00 first shot kick

[ornate sleet]

i could see it

but 1.2 feels like it's pretty mitigatable with the new attachments so it offers genuine choices

[slender tendon]

we need more dmrs the ones in the game right now are stale and feel aweful to use.

[snow crescent]

Imagine how it felt before they got buffed

[slender tendon]

i dont have to i played in the playtest they were practically useless

every single one of them is like grinding your junk on sandpaper while listening to nails on a chalkboard

[pseudo juniper]

maybe you're just bad

because M110 and SVD are really strong

[slender tendon]

dude if your just gonna be a twat stfu

[tulip warren]

skill issue

[paper fjord]

SVD is the only DMR IMO that can seriously compete with the M110.

MK 20 to me feels stuck between two worlds.

[hallow totem]

at what range? m110 can be outshot with other dmrs pretty easily if your fast on the trigger and can control it.

[ornate sleet]

even m110 vs mk20 is a pretty easy mk20 W, just gotta land a headshot

m110 leans so far towards sniper it becomes prey for the other DMRs imo

[paper fjord]

Close up, the SVD is extremely dominant. The M110 isn’t as usable up close but has serious legs.

MK 20 needs a headshot to compete with M110. Otherwise it’s game over,

Running DMRs that aren’t the M110, I find the M110 to be the second biggest threat, after snipers.

[hallow totem]

is it the second biggest threat or just he more common one?

you can push alot of the DMRs out pretty far with 1k and above muzzle velocity, and alot of them have much better recoil and firerates.

[paper fjord]

If the M110 is more common, the reason for the prevalence is probably the same reasons why it would be such a threat.

[scarlet topaz]

ok so 40x on DMRs when?

[tulip warren]

When deagle gets 8x

[scarlet topaz]

so when 40x on DMRs?

[heavy quarry]

When deagle gets 8x

[grizzled sage]

DMR's are a lil too strong imo. They are so viable that they are used in CQB which shouldn't really be the case.

[raven parrot]

They are not viable in CQB.

If you’re within AR range they’re just worse than ARs

Worse ttk, worse mag sizes, worse reload times, worse move speeds, worse aimdown times. If you aren’t taking advantage of their range and recoil they have no advantage

[grizzled sage]

Obviosuly not been playing CQB enough have ya

[raven parrot]

That’s where a majority of fights take place.

Do you have an argument other than a “nuh uh” type thing

[grizzled sage]

They are absolutly viable in CQB, The MK14 alone can be Full-Auto, meanwhile the MK20 and SVD are seing a lot of use in Close Range. No one mentioned run and gun to which all your stats are based as if you are constantly on the run. The queue was that they are a little too strong. I didn't say they are OP.

Maybe hop into a game. You will maybe see that they are absolutely being used as a substitute instead of AR / SMG's .

Then maybe you can come back with the "Nuh Huh" DS mentality

[raven parrot]

Full auto is not the be-all and end-all of CQB combat. Every other gun already has that, it’s not even a counterargument

Literally all the stats I mentioned are vital for close range engagements

“Run and gun” or not, they’re distinct disadvantages and unless there is some factor I haven’t accounted for (in which case I encourage you to bring it up) it is proof of the point.

[raven parrot]

I have plenty enough experience in the game to know how it plays.

[hallow totem]

unless you drop headshots, you will lose a straight fight everytime with a DMR up close

[unreal patrol]

Uhm akshially mk14 is a batulriful

[unreal patrol]

Cept svd that one has a competitive ttk and easy recoil

[hallow totem]

will still lose in a straight fight without headshots.

course that if skill is the same and no bullets miss.

[jagged jay]

they really arent

the svd kinda

But only if you spam full firerate and even then it loses to pretty much every AR and all the smgs

and the svd is bad at long range compared to the other dmrs so it balances out anyways

[unique apex]

i miss the old m110 it way stronger than what we have now

that what OP is

[unkempt meadow]

yeah old 350 rpm was great, still miss it

[turbid pendant]

DMRs need to be less available.

[zealous oasis]

I still think its fucking dumb that the SVD takes such a large hit to its viability at longer ranges as a DMR, to gain an advantage that it cant really make much use of anyway. The SVD was the one DMR i was really looking forward to in my 0th prestige, and i was shattered when i discovered its basically a battle rifle that isnt even full auto. WHY

No wait that's not the rant i came here to make

[zealous oasis]

Wdym "less available"?

[arctic river]

I think DMRs are in an ok spot, they generally get outclassed at medium/close range by anything full auto.

Unless you're a rube and telegraph that you're just about to walk around this rock point-blank, and subsequently get blasted in the face by a waiting Mk20

In that case, it's a skill issue and not the weapon

[zealous oasis]

Nuh uh. Everyone should be required to constantly tell me via "hot/cold" where they are relative to me. I want 127 voices screamin in my ear at all times

[arctic river]

"I played Assault Groza and all I got was shot in the face"

[zealous oasis]

The story of my life

[tulip warren]

https://tenor.com/view/mind-blow-galaxy-explode-boom-fireworks-gif-5139389

[fickle token]

some of these weaknesses are mitigated by assault having dmrs for some reason. assault absolutely does not need dmrs, the ads speed and reload speed is pushing them over the top in situations where they really shouldn't be. much like supports with battle rifles.

also reminder that the passive playstyles are currently map favored on the majority of maps (given that most of them are borderline open fields), it's a recipe for lobbies to be full of dmr users being annoying with a weapon that's a touch too strong inside it's ideal ranges (this is more feels based considering how even recons are preferring dmrs in most of my games)

[hallow totem]

do you really see that many DMR users? per match I can count each death to a DMR user on my hands, and each user on one.

[fickle token]

lobbies are like 90% dmr's/br's rn, what lobbies are you in where people aren't using them? i mean sure there's still people using rpg's as a shotgun but that's never gonna stop either but the overwhelming majority of my deaths are dmrs and the rest are usually someone sitting in a corner/holding angles with a br

[hallow totem]

man I see the occasional FAL, maybe a recon rocking a m110 or svd, I've seen like 4-5 g3s in the past month.

I really only play on BOB though. so maybe that's why, its usually against the same people.

[tulip warren]

Assault and dmr are good

Doesnt need to be changed

[fickle token]

assault doesnt need dmrs. it's been problematic for months

[hallow totem]

it really hasn't lol

[fickle token]

your opinions really dont mean much, i've seen the things you support

[hallow totem]

sorry man

you just suck and see problems with guns and not your play style

[fickle token]

no, the maps hard cater to passive play (aka dmr/recon/support) and assault pushes dmrs over the edge. the fact that the overwhelming majority of my dmr deaths are to assaults should tell you that's a problem. the maps are the biggest issue this game has, and will continue to have. look at new basra, there's a literal lane wider than 2-3 tanks fully snipeable from the northern safe zone. how do you people not play these maps and see these as issues?

until maps get fixed weapons need to be tuned around the maps we're playing on

dmrs replacing bolt-actions in the safe zone should tell you exactly what all the sniper nerfs did

[hallow totem]

You somehow die to alot of dmrs

you somehow know every dmr you die from is an assault

you somehow know dmrs have replaced bolts when that is not even close to the case lol

[fickle token]

my brother in christ i have played 500 hours of this awful game. you can tell by silhoutte 90% of the time

if you can't tell classes apart at a glance at this point i'm not sure how you even think your opinion matters. you don't play enough to know what happens in a game

[hallow totem]

not like univeral exists

not like you can customize your characters armor.

not like armor dissapears after being broken

[brazen spire]

still decernable (except for maybe supports running medium)
and yes dmr assaults are aids

they are quite common

not even sure why assault kept those when it was transformed into a close-medium range fragger

[raven parrot]

The perks assault has aren’t really related to any specific range

[hallow totem]

so you somehow know how people look despite having numerous types of armor shared between classes? yeah buddy stop talking out your ass.

[brazen spire]

yes, i have eyes

[hallow totem]

what part of "they have the same armor and helmets" do you not understand lol

like I said, talking out your ass to cover you sucking at the game.

[fickle token]

The only 2 classes hard to tell apart at a glance are medic and assault. And even that’s not that hard

Medics either seem to have a medkit in hand or don’t have a helmet on and are shitting on everyone else

[raven parrot]

Medics are pretty identifiable imo

They have those red bits

Engineer and assault can just look the same

[fickle token]

Ye, can be missed in a stack but yeah

Engineers have the rpg changing their silhouette

[raven parrot]

easy to miss, imo

[fickle token]

Only if they’re holding it. Speaking of rpgs idk why people keep asking for shotguns when the rpg is already a shotgun

[raven parrot]

I think if we did have shotguns they’d play very differently to them

Probably closer to how heavy pistols work now, just accommodated to have some spread

[tulip warren]

that doesn't mean much when most other people have more hours lol

[lapis nest]

Just 4-6 shot burst at a time

[fickle token]

what's your point? you gonna tell me you've played 1k hours and still can't tell the classes apart by silhouette?

[tulip warren]

Nah, just that you're wrong lol

[fickle token]

excellent argument. very compelling. almost strong enough to change my opinion. almost

[blazing coral]

Cube the dmr headshot multiplier

[raven parrot]

3.375x headshot multiplier sounds very balanced

[hallow totem]

your argument is "I suck and keep dying to one of the less used weapon classes, so they need to be nerfed and removed from a class I can somehow always identify from any distance"

[fickle token]

less used? bro they're everywhere what do you mean... and yes they should be removing dmrs from assault. weren't you one of the ones up in arms that assault needed to be assaulting and medics needed to be healing people? how is sitting in the back of the map/hiding in windows assaulting anything?

[hallow totem]

I was talking about c4 then idiot. I never spoke of guns or armor.

as usual, take shit out of context to prove your shit views

and yes, they are less used. for every 10 dmr users the other 100+ players are not using dmrs. becuase they are a middle ground. recon will use bolts. Assault will use AR's. BRs are more popular across all classes. an high speed abusers are using SMGs still.

you will see the same people killing your dumbass and not dozens of different people

[unreal patrol]

I member when they tried to make DMRS recon only

[fickle token]

i dont even remember who all had dmrs before they reworked them, engi and recon?

[unreal patrol]

anyways Loki is right keeping DMRs on assault is stupid, all the downsides of DMRs are the ones that assault nullifies

[unreal patrol]

nothing changed

Engi, recon and assault

[fickle token]

oh right, it's just nobody played assault for ages because medic was better, and then even when assault became better nobody swapped. then dmrs got buffed and we got another bandage buff and people went assault

this game hasn't been out long enough for me to be forgetting shit

[unreal patrol]

and yet

[raven parrot]

Hmm. I don't remember a significant gap between DMR reworks and them being handed to classes other than recon

but perhaps my memory is just not good at remembering the passage of time

[unreal patrol]

But they were always on non recon classes

[raven parrot]

I feel certain they were only on recon when the game released

[unreal patrol]

Like pre EA?

Pre play test?

[hallow totem]

pretty sure engy and assualt already had them.

[tulip warren]

Assault should have access to more guns than other classes because without that they arent unique enough to have only a couple gun types. Medic is fine with the gun selection it has because it can self heal easily and heal other players. Engineer is fine with the gun selection because they have acess to rpgs. All assault has that differentiates it from other classes atm is a few changes to how the class plays. They don't have much in the way of special equipment so more guns fills the gap. If assault had specialty items then idc if you remove dmrs but removing dmrs or any other gun type and not adding in anything to make it unique is just not fun

[fickle token]

assault has passive buffs (reload speed and ads speed, not sure what else you could give the class given that it's already the meta class for aggressive play and a strong option for passive play), dmrs don't fit an assault role to begin with but the weapon type is balanced around those 2 specific stats being limited (well, those 2 and fire rate). it really just ends up taking a balanced if slightly undertuned weapon type over the line.

[raven parrot]

Assault has everything except snipers, what more do you want from it

Oh yeah and support exclusives

[unkempt meadow]

Did DMRs receive a huge buff in the last few weeks that im not aware of or something?

engi had DMRs during play tests, assault got them some time after they got the ads reload swap speed buffs

was right before or at EA release when that happened if i remember right

oh squad leader also had them

[tulip warren]

nope

[gleaming socket]

DMRs received buffs last year