Designated Marksman Rifles (General) - Feedback

[azure estuary]

all snipers and dmrs

[unique apex]

But that what the gun design to do

Bro the time they need to adjust crosshair to shot another shot the 1st already landed

Unless you in cqc range

[azure estuary]

nah

recoil is cheesable in this game

[jagged jay]

thats excessive

no one does this

[azure estuary]

source: i main the evo

[jagged jay]

oh thats why u complain about dmrs

[snow crescent]

Friendo, play maybe… 15 games of DMR. Then come back to us

[unique apex]

Try cqc gun again dmrs at long range smh

[azure estuary]

i do

[jagged jay]

cause you are trying to kill dmr users that excel at 50-400m with a gun that cant shoot farther than 50m

[azure estuary]

im not main main evo

im just trying to max out every gun

i happen to just be on evo rn

[jagged jay]

okay i can respect that

i do the same

i getting every gun to 500 kills

[azure estuary]

some dont need 500

[blazing coral]

Nobody is firing dmrs accurately that fast at ranges past 10 meters. The recoil does not permit it even with the changes.

[azure estuary]

like evo only needs 320?? i believe

[jagged jay]

they dont but 500 is a nice number and its a good flex

[unique apex]

I think he hallucinating

[azure estuary]

nah you can cheese recoil

[lapis nest]

It is 49 hmm

[azure estuary]

recoil in this game is actually really consistent

[unique apex]

Unless you hacking you can't at long-range

[jagged jay]

it would probably be too op if it was 50

[lapis nest]

I sometimes shoot the 2nd shot before the 1st shot land lol

It is doable

[unique apex]

Only close range

[azure estuary]

all you have to do is adjust ads sensitivity based on the recoil, and you can get the gun to feel like it is a lower recoil gun

[lapis nest]

Nope, it was usually around 70-150m

[blazing coral]

Then you’re either genuinely a complete monster or you’re up in their face.

[azure estuary]

even i can control dmrs like that (not 100% of the time obv)

and i have skill issue

[blazing coral]

Go use one ur self then bestie and outplay the DMR users I guess

[lapis nest]

I'm cracked at tapping recoil also 4000 DPI

[azure estuary]

i do

er i did

[jagged jay]

i dont believe that you can do that but if anyone can then they derserve for the enemy to die instantly ong they worked hard for that shit

[jagged jay]

jesus whta the fuck

[lapis nest]

Still better than SMG zooming drop shot air strafing bullshit tbh

[jagged jay]

i use 800

[unique apex]

Still doesnt change the fact the horizon recoil mess your aim up no matter how fast you can shot also there no input buffer yet

[azure estuary]

just prone 💀

[lapis nest]

I'm a wrist user I only move my wrist while gaming so I need high dpi

[azure estuary]

same

[jagged jay]

thats crazy

idk how people do that

[azure estuary]

lazy

lol

i used to be a wrist player on osu before i got a tablet

[blazing coral]

I use my Kinect from 2013

[jagged jay]

i be swining my whole arm so much that my mouse goes flying off my desk sometimes

[lapis nest]

Sometimes the horizontal doesnt fly off the screen, I think it's the maximum distant side to side and not every shot swings the same

[lapis nest]

A heavy mouse, duh
Mine is like 150g

[unique apex]

Yeah it random left and right so unless you know where it gonna recoil it impossible to do long range shot with it

[azure estuary]

i have about 3 mouse width space to move

[unique apex]

Or just be in cqc to ignore the recoil

[lapis nest]

You'll get used to it I play DMR even before the nerf just for the fun of it. Full auto Mk14 my beloved

[cobalt sphinx]

Blud got the star trek keyboard

[azure estuary]

nerf? i thought the dmr change was buffs

[unique apex]

Before the change it only vertical recoil. It way easier before

[jagged jay]

is that the ltt mousepad lmao

[azure estuary]

ye

[blazing coral]

Linus tech lips

[cobalt sphinx]

I have less space

[unique apex]

The change actually a slight nerf for m110

[lapis nest]

Me dum dum

[jagged jay]

only if you get the 500kills or whatever u needed for lb

[lapis nest]

Not really, vertical is easier on a full auto, while horizontal is easier on a tapping

[unique apex]

I have near 1.5k before the change

[jagged jay]

that sounds like it was very painful

causse m110 per buff without lb is shit

[unique apex]

Nah I love the gun but hate the patch

Yeah it painful to get lb

The patch actually make me use m110 less

[lapis nest]

Why?

[jagged jay]

i havent used the m110 as much as you but its actually useable for people who dont want to grind 500 kills just to make it useable

that alone makes it way better

[lapis nest]

I use the M110 a ton now, the horizontal isnt that bad

[unique apex]

Yeah it lower the grind which is good but it meh now

[jagged jay]

i honestly prefer mk20 over m110 but thats just me

mk20 just so consistent

[lapis nest]

Mk20 is just a slower scar h

[jagged jay]

better damage drop off

people called scar h a dmr but it really not cause it did shit damage at range

mk20 doesnt

[unique apex]

Recoil damage is the same just exchange some velocity for magazine and you have the old m110

[jagged jay]

better velocity too

pretty sure it has lower recoil than scar h but idk

[lapis nest]

You lose some, you get some, that's a given

[unique apex]

Scar h is battle rifle and it still can 3btk at 200m I don't think it do shit damage at range

[jagged jay]

all im saying is that the mk20 is defintely not a worse scar h

[lapis nest]

I still prefer scar h over mk20 just because the range where mk20 is better is limited

[unique apex]

Beside battle rifle should have shorter range than dmrs

[lapis nest]

I never say worse, I said slower

[unique apex]

But 200m is plenty enough already

[jagged jay]

oh i misread that

i mean the mk20 literally is a scar

like

same manufacturer

it would make sense that they are somewhat comparable

[lapis nest]

Scar L when

[unique apex]

Scar h is mk17 mk20 is just dmrs version

[jagged jay]

that would be fun

[spice lintel]

hit 3500 wit the m110 yo, love this gun yo

[azure estuary]

3500m?

or kills

[spice lintel]

kills yo

10 MINS UNTIL DMR IS SSS+ TIER YO. WINRATES GOING TO 165% YO

[zealous oasis]

what exactly do you think has changed about DMRs this update?

[azure estuary]

the dmr change already was published....

[gleaming socket]

Input buffer

[spice lintel]

until its live goober

[spice lintel]

its a SECOND buff YO

[zealous oasis]

oh!

input buffer!

[azure estuary]

ah

[zealous oasis]

tbh im more excited about input buffer on pistols and other semis than on DMRs

im not a "DMR firerate spam" kind of DMR user, as i typically draw my sidearm instead

[azure estuary]

im so glad deagle doesnt have scope

[zealous oasis]

rsh does

though its a motherfucking 6x

in other words, its a massive middle finger as if the way oki balances the Rsh wasnt already enough of a middle finger

[placid plinth]

even worse

it's 8x

insane how bad oki is at balancing

[zealous oasis]

oh yeah, im not back up to even 100 yet lol

[spice lintel]

@blazing coral You're gonna love the SVD brah

[zealous oasis]

its been a minute since i used my precious

also, groza TTK still feels gross. i imagine now UMP will also feel gross

[tulip warren]

10 minutes?

[spice lintel]

updates live now

[zealous oasis]

aye. ive already been destroyed by the m110 5 times because aim punch doesnt do shit anymore

getting shot by 9mm? no problem! GANK GANK

[tulip warren]

Oh shit

[slim topaz]

The ttk is on par with SMGs, and the ttk skyrockets if you miss even one shot.
I
Your complaint is unironically invalid unless you want to say that there's no counter to SMGs at close range.

[snow crescent]

Just shoot first

[last vessel]

womp womp

[ornate sleet]

really looking forward to it when i get my rank back up post-prestige

now theres a gun that can use the buffer

[blazing coral]

Oh mah lawd that input buffer is crazy

[tulip rapids]

i did say input buffer was all we needed . .

svd💀

mk20 with son does 69 headshot ;)

[ocean mango]

@tulip rapids has earned the Tier I Member role!

[inland sequoia]

nice

[snow crescent]

This is why it’s my favourite

[ornate sleet]

based

[snow crescent]

Welcome to piss club @tulip rapids

[fringe whale]

Input buffer so semi autos don't feel awful

[raven parrot]

yeah that is what we just got

[vague rock]

My mk20 games will just go that much better

[nimble plinth]

idk where to put this but i was messing around with the Flir on the m110 and it keeps going white

the whole screen of it just turns white

[blazing coral]

Are you looking at the sun???

[blazing coral]

Jokes aside try #game-bugs

[unkempt meadow]

it may be lasers being pointed at you

[azure estuary]

MSR needs a buff

it plays more like a dmr than a sniper

[jagged jay]

i agree that msr needs a buff but it does not play like a dmr also wrong channel

[lapis nest]

Input buffer was a massive buff

I literally full auto the M110 on wakistan bridge and got a 10 streak

[unkempt meadow]

its pretty nice, did have an issue clicking to fast and shooting when i didnt want to my first match. suffering from success i guess.

[tulip warren]

wait until snipers start complaining that the dmrs are too overpowered and need a nerf

[lapis nest]

Try and hit this M200 with 40x scope at 2000m away

[arctic river]

DMRs now feel great to play with, they're med-long range kings and aren't completely useless close up

But still get outclassed by automatic weapons at the ranges you'd expect

I'm REALLY enjoying the mk20, which I hardly ever touched before as it was frankly trash

The m110 feels a lot more unwieldy but hits like a truck

Lol M14 full auto who cares

[scarlet topaz]

need 40x on DMRs

[jagged jay]

stop askiing for this

stupid ass suggestion

[scarlet topaz]

for u of course it is stupid

[inland sequoia]

40x is useless on dmrs and snipers

theres no situation where having that thing over any other scope will make a significant difference

[scarlet topaz]

useful for the distance further than 1500m

not better than 20x or 8x but still useful

[inland sequoia]

then why not just sitck with 20x or 8x. these are way more practical in literally every other situation

[scarlet topaz]

well i need all sniper scopes for dmr

[inland sequoia]

why? At the ranges where dmrs are used the 6x or med scopes are plenty

[scarlet topaz]

just want to try out dmrs at long range

[arctic river]

They do damage falloff at longer ranges

[inland sequoia]

i did, and beyond 600m you wont do much due to damage falloff

unless you want to have to hit 10 shots to kill someone

[jagged jay]

just use a fucking sniper oh my god

cause the damage dropoff the dmrs are pretty much useless past 500 meters

[scarlet topaz]

oh my god i am so stupid that i didnt even fint out that i can use sniper rifles for that range

thank u for helping me realizing that

but i want try out dmr at long range

[jagged jay]

hint: it sucks

[scarlet topaz]

ah yes

tell me that it has falloff damagew

[jagged jay]

because the damage dropoff you will literally be doing like 20 damage a shot at ranges where the 40x is useable

[scarlet topaz]

tell me that i supposed to control incredibly high recoil

[scarlet topaz]

the only thing i supposed to do with it is just deal with it

[jagged jay]

or you could just use a snipet

sniper

cause that's what they are meant to do

and they do it well

[scarlet topaz]

im just tired of using only snipers for long range

[jagged jay]

that's kinda your only option

so

unless they change one of the pistols to have longer damage dropoff

[heavy quarry]

I think he have brain issue

[zealous oasis]

that feels like an unnecessary thing to say

[scarlet topaz]

brain issue is nedgi

mine sugeestion about dmrs is just cringe thing

but needed for me

[tulip warren]

You know what would make dmrs even better

40x

[azure estuary]

jokes on you, i routinely make 1800m shots

40x gives topsight

so just run 40x + red dot

and you have all ranges covered

[ornate sleet]

Unica 40x when

[slim topaz]

Does M110 have longer recoil recovery time than SVD, EBR etc?

That's what I've seeeeeemed to find

either that or it's a placebo where I'm less patient with the others

[lapis nest]

2000m+ fight, duh

[ornate sleet]

It just straight up has way more recoil

You pay for that two shot

[slim topaz]

Oh yeah I'm aware. I guess the stat of 'recovery speed' and the recoil are just separate things in my mind because that's what I'm used to in FPS games, but

it might just be it takes longer to recover JUST because the recoil itself is higher. aka same 'recovery speed' between the guns but longer distance to recover from.

[jagged jay]

some people saying m110 is op

what yall think of this

i personally think its fine but

[zealous oasis]

dunno about OP, but I dont disagree that it certainly reaches too far into the CQC niche that ARs and SMGs inhabit than it probably should

[lapis nest]

I dont think there's a passive recover for battlebit. Guns would stay in the recoiled position and wont move down unless you manuall pull your mouse

[spice lintel]

Woo dmrs

[raven parrot]

It would be OP versus single targets if people can consistently land limb shots

How many people are able to do this well enough I just don’t know

[lapis nest]

It's very close to OP now

S tier gun even

Tbh I would nerf the velocity of DMR to where it was before, except the MK20

DMR are now effective in literally almost all ranges except 500+

[raven parrot]

tbh looking at the stats I’m not sure it’s that good

[lapis nest]

The velocity make em super easy to hit running targets at range

[raven parrot]

against unarmoured targets it kills fairly quickly, but every other stat it has other than velocity and dropoff are kinda meh

[frosty nacelle]

Battlefield style damage curves, less realistic but easier time trying to balance effective range.

[unique apex]

for me it just the same old m110 nothing really change much. except for the mag nerf so i cant run short mag anymore

[tulip warren]

Yuck, no pls

Respectfully no

[vague rock]

Leave everything on the m110 the same, except nerf the recoil a bit

[slim topaz]

So I fooled myself, LOL. Thanks, I'll check in the range when I can.

[arctic river]

Played all day yesterday with the m110 and whilst good, I still think the mk20's better at least for my playstyle, the move speed penalty is a thing and i'd say it's much less flexible.

You can still 2-shot with 1 body and 1 headshot with the mk20

unless really heavy armor

[lapis nest]

M110 is the leg hunter bro, laying down on wakistan bridge and bust those kneecaps

[tulip rapids]

I love how this thread has triple the messages as the other gun class threads

[brazen spire]

cuz it sucked, now the m110 is "op"

[tulip rapids]

Yes i have had enough of these complainers who died to it 5 times and now think its op

[brazen spire]

or ytbers using it like a slow ar on flanks complaining about how the gun is op

[tulip rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[brazen spire]

and a vector, p90, a bunch of ars and some other guns aren't very good to "op" or what

[tulip rapids]

I love how people are simultaneously saying m110 is op whilst others are saying it got nerfed

[brazen spire]

who says it got nerfed? lower recoil, arguably better rof, what's not to like?

[blazing coral]

That’s because prior to the buffs dmrs were in an absolutely tragic spot lol we were desperate, I had some wacky fucking ideas myself

[ornate sleet]

less ammo, significant horizontal recoil, worse ROF now that the click buffer is in

i love my baby but i can see how people could take it as a nerf vs the old long barrel build

[brazen spire]

worse rof now that click buffer is in? what are you smoking buddy i need that XD

[ornate sleet]

it lost 50 ROF, and now it's much much easier to use all that ROF

did you miss the input buffer being added last patch? it's a big change for DMRs

[blazing coral]

And it’s a buff

[ornate sleet]

yeah it rules

if we had 50 more ROF the "m110 dominates c lose range" problem would be a lot worse lol

[blazing coral]

And the m110 fires faster now with the input buffer than it did when it had a fire rate that was technically higher

Yeah it’s definitely good the ROF went down

[brazen spire]

uhm i just said input buffer buffed the dmrs? the firerate wasn't even usable before so it's a buff

[supple panther]

I feel like making the damage on most DMRs start below 50 and rise a bit before it starts to fall would definitely help stop them from getting into other guns' niches

Like 3 shots at close range, down to 2 at medium, and then back to 3 after the damage drop-off gets there

Doesn't even need to be that far, 50 meters would be fantastic enough to prevent them from just being bulky cqc ars

And otherwise I'd say they are great as is
They are basically snipers but more fun to use or play against, with more balancing potential and diversity between guns

[blazing coral]

I really don’t think having another funky damage curve would be good. The dmrs aren’t crazy strong in close quarters right now anyway except in pretty niche situations. If anything I think a slight fire rate nerf might make more sense, but I don’t even think that’s super important rn

[supple panther]

Hmmm, I'd need to run the M110 for a few extra hours before I could make a judgement on that, but I think you're right

But yeah, idk about yall but DMRs in general just feel like snipers but better(and not in a 'stronger' sense, just more fun to play with or play against) for me

[blazing coral]

I like both of them but I really appreciate being able to use both without feeling like dmrs are just worse in every way.

[supple panther]

True

[twin rivet]

Dmr fun, plz no touch

[ornate sleet]

i feel like thatd be workable concept if they were a balance issue, but i dont think its at all necessary right now.

[tulip warren]

that tells you its probably in a good spot

[spice lintel]

I love the M110 yo. Been running it for a while and I’ve yet to feel the ammo nerf justtt yet (extended mags ftw)

[severe gull]

I say just the M110 velocity so its higher up on the skill curve to get so many 2 tap kills. Or maybe make the armor a little bigger on the player models, some games I could swear no one is running armor at all, even exos XD

[unique apex]

The meta right now is ditch armor for better movement speed

[jagged jay]

non armor users when 2 m110 rounds:

[unique apex]

Tbf I die to m110 like 5 or 6 times at most per match since the buffer and I kinda mindlessly running around

Most of the time I die to p90 so I still don't think m110 op or anything

[azure estuary]

^

or run ranger for a midground

[raven parrot]

ranger isn’t really a mid ground in that respect, it’s just a movement speed loss for an ammo gain
In terms of defence against weapons medium would be the middle ground

[zinc heath]

DMRs are in a good place rn

[spice lintel]

sure are

[zinc heath]

Attachments for all guns need a major rework

[blazing coral]

#1138534897246556301

[spice lintel]

m110 feels so good

[slim topaz]

So,

Potentially reviving this discussion,

We still don't really know how gun mechanics work LOL, but the hitmarker update might either help or obfuscate our understanding.

Is there a thread for the actual gunplay/mechanics?

[fringe whale]

We shall see. All I know is that at least in some cases aimpoint seems to desync with the scope.

This may not be all cases but testing it is fairly annoying

[brazen spire]

ye, https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1138534079499862208

[jagged jay]

wont this make lasers useless

[slim topaz]

Maybe, it'll make learning how to hipfire much easier at least imo. The initial aim point is still obfuscated.

[twin rivet]

update, it did

[blazing coral]

No, because you don’t need to start shooting to use a laser. Positional hit markers don’t do anything until you hit the target.

[twin rivet]

Practically useless. Luckily they're basically free lol

[blazing coral]

This is also a good point. You don’t need a laser to aim with hipfire now.

[twin rivet]

So

with lasers you will know where your first shot will land

and then you can easily full auto the rest

I think they just reverted the positional hitmarkers tho

[vague rock]

G3 is good

[dusty patio]

I don't think it exactly makes sense as a dmr

[vague rock]

It's a bit for like an assault rifle, yeah

But the range is nice, so I ain't complaining

[twin rivet]

The G3 should be a BR right?

[blazing coral]

Technically the G3, Scar-H, EBR, and FAL are all battle rifles, not assault rifles. But there is no battle rifle category, so they are put into whatever category makes sense for balancing.

[twin rivet]

Ok the G3

kind of stupid good

like it's just an AR. It has 0 recoil actually with an rds

[zealous oasis]

aye. just reinforces the need for a BR category

i frankly think giving it a small ammo reserve nerf and a decent-sized reload speed nerf (and doing the same to the Mk14) would set BRs aside from both DMRs and ARs performance wise

and, as bob sort of sideways-said, probably at least consider the same treatment for the Scar and FAL

[twin rivet]

Would be cool

[zealous oasis]

and honestly, i think the longer we dont have a BR category, the more it hurts the games balance by trying to shoehorn these weapons into unbefitting categories

[jagged jay]

BR category would be great

Should have a damage curve in between assault rifles and dmrs

[brazen spire]

yes, no brs for medic tho, they already got enough range with the ars

[jagged jay]

give brs to assault and engineer

[brazen spire]

ye

[blazing coral]

Add the rm277

[jagged jay]

what is that

bro i just lookedup

wtrf is that 💀

whats with the muzzle

[blazing coral]

NGSW competitor that GD shit the bed with when they decided their automatic rifle was gonna be a rifle with a longer barrel instead of a belt fed

[blazing coral]

It’s a suppressor

[jagged jay]

it looks like a tumor

[blazing coral]

It looks like a potato

Cool gun though

[jagged jay]

But yeah we really need BR class

Damage curve inbetween ar and dmr would make guns like the scar h have more identity

and not just an ak15 but cooler looking

[lapis nest]

No way bro havent seen the MX-6 series

[raven parrot]

Once you understand the gunplay this is a nonissue.

I don’t think your gun even really wobbles around in this game so it should be very consistent

[tulip rapids]

y does g3 have strikefire and every othger dmr doesnt

[lapis nest]

cuz it's an AR but for recon

[tulip rapids]

Mk14?

[lapis nest]

Dont be silly, mk14 doesnt even have the TTK of AR

[tulip rapids]

Scar doesnt wither

Either*

[lapis nest]

Wdym, scar literally have way faster TTK than Mk14

That thing 2 shot headshot and 1 shot body, more RPM and more damage than the Mk14

[tulip rapids]

Way faster 100 more

[lapis nest]

100 more is not enough for u lmao

[tulip rapids]

Its not enough to call it way faster

[lapis nest]

Whatever monkeman

[tulip rapids]

Besides y cant we have strikefire on every gun with short sights it is silly

I understand y not onsnipers but

[lapis nest]

The TTK difference is crazy, especially on exo

[tulip rapids]

Especially on exo bro runs into exo every other gunfight clearly

[blazing coral]

Tbf i feel like i do see a lot of exo gamers

At least enough for it to be a consideration

[lapis nest]

Also the MK14 have like 100ms more on ADS time compare to the scar h

That's also a TTK increase

[twin rivet]

If you run support you run exo because it's the unique thing to your kit (aka it's cool)

[lapis nest]

0.20 ADS on the scar H compare to 0.29 on mk14

[tulip rapids]

Like i just want strikefire on m110

[slim topaz]

This guy's point is strong.

[slim topaz]

And this.

[tulip rapids]

Yes so if u see both sides u understand they should either both have strikefire or neither

[lapis nest]

Support have DMR 🤔

[tulip rapids]

Do they i swear they dont?

[lapis nest]

No, I'm asking should they

[tulip rapids]

I think so make the class a bit different

As like a holding fort kinda thing

Lets say in a bulding in lonovo or something

Anti grenade + ammo box + barricades

Goated

They only have 4 guns

But mabye exo m110 eould be too strong

[blazing coral]

I really don’t think dmrs fit with support.

Support are getting more guns soon anyway

[tulip rapids]

What guns is it, has oki said yet?

[blazing coral]

Devs themselves haven’t announced it but there was a leak or release or something a while ago, I’ll see if I can find it

[brazen spire]

nothing official but there are some that got leaked (within game files so yes actually true)
guns that are/were coming are F2000, G3, FN57, RPK, M60, MG3, AUG HBAR, M93, CBJsmth smth pdw/smg, mpx and a couple others that i forgor 💀

[blazing coral]

https://reddit.com/r/BattleBitRemastered/s/4gKPugisH0

[tulip rapids]

but on another note stabill is better than gun fighter/vertical for ovr recoil reduction which kinda matters on m110 being so high on both

[blazing coral]

Are you absolutely certain? I tested them all a while ago and vertical grip was 100% better in terms of vertical recoil. I guess it might have changed due to the recoil changes but it was a significant difference in favor of vertical.

[brazen spire]

vertical is better in vertical recoil because first shot vertical recoil multiplier

[tulip rapids]

ye before buff vertical was more beneficial becuase it reduced true vertical further but stabill reduced overall more, except before the buff horizontal wasnt an issue so now its optimal to run stabill because of horizontal

lemme run the numbers real quick

[blazing coral]

Does first shot kick affect horizontal recoil as well as vertical?

[tulip rapids]

ye

[blazing coral]

Hmm, stabil might make more sense now, in that case. Gunfighter doesn’t seem to do too much but it might be worth checking out as well.

[tulip rapids]

stabill is 1.769 vertical and 2.9646 horizontal vertical grip is 1.68 vertical 3.64 horizontal so (1.769+2.9646)-(1.68+3.64)=-0.5864 so stabill .58 better

(i didnt include the recoil x first shot kick as takes ages to type)

this is with no barrel aswell

[blazing coral]

What I did is go to the shooting range, stand at a fixed distance from one of the walls with the grid on it, aim at a fixed point, then fire single shots and look at how far the reticle moves with the grid as a reference

[tulip rapids]

ye i dont think that accounts for horizontal tho as horizontal goes both ways

but works for vertical

so lowest possible recoil overall would be stabill + short mag +flash hider as it is +47 vertical -49 horizontal and no first shot kick

[supple panther]

Focusing on horizontal reduction tends to be better on automatic weapons where it more reliably goes straight up so you can just move down, but I find it's better to reduce vertical on semi autos since generally you have a way bigger window to re center your aim and vertical just feels like it moves more a lot of the time

[arctic river]

The G3 is rediculous, waaaaay overtuned

[brazen spire]

nah bro what are you smoking?

it can assault rifle and dmr but doesn't do either of those 2 very good

[brazen spire]

also, https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1152872499663605761

[tulip rapids]

its a dmr tho

[brazen spire]

ye but we got a thread about it

[lapis nest]

You realise it's a scar h TTK but with no recoil? It's both accurate and powerful

[brazen spire]

yes i do

[lapis nest]

Then wdym not doing both of em very good

That thing shreds

[jagged jay]

100%

[brazen spire]

yeah whatever you're delisional if you think the g3 needs a nerf, it's been out for a day

[jagged jay]

I don't think the gun itself needs a nerf but it should be moved to a battle rifle class

doesn't make sense with the dmr damage curve

[brazen spire]

ye def, probaly to op in medic hands and thus a dmr
because the Bundeswehr used these things as their standard infantary rifle aka an ar so dmr doesn't make sense but w/e imma use the 500m sniping capabilities combined with the ar gameplay hehe

[jagged jay]

if we did get a battle rifle class it should go to assault and engineer

[blazing coral]

Agreed

[jagged jay]

Also imo mk14 ebr should stay in DMR class

It's technically both a BR and DMR

But we should have a full auto dmr niche

[blazing coral]

But you know that the gamers™ are going to collectively shit their pants and scream when they realize they can’t run the FAL as a medic anymore.

[jagged jay]

Skill issue

Assault is better anyways

[brazen spire]

based af, only using medic for scorpion

[jagged jay]

We finally agree on something

[brazen spire]

❤️

[jagged jay]

Only time I use medic is when I wanna actually revive people

[brazen spire]

i only use medic cuz scorpion but if i find someone i can res i will, that is (the medics) way

[zealous oasis]

yep. its seriously detrimental to balance among classes for oki being the way he is, an SMG medic and all. medics have no fucking business going on assault, BECAUSE THATS WHAT ASSAULT IS FUCKING NAMED FOR

[slim topaz]

Oki "being the way he is"? I mean idk, it's fine tbh. I would like assault to be "the gun guy" class tho.

At the moment, I see a wide diversity in almost every mode. Frequently I see 2 assault 2 medic 1 supp 1 recon etc

1 engi 'cause the dude loves his RPG

[zealous oasis]

oki is an smg medic. theres probably 0 chance of medic ever losing SMGs, so its always going to overshadow assault

like, the way i see it, medic having the highest base movement speed would be so that the class doesnt need SMGs

[slim topaz]

Maaan, idk, I be seeing balance nowadays. Like maybe 1 more medic than assault player in squads normally.

[zealous oasis]

the amount doesnt determine balance. medic can self heal without using bandages, and can use SMGs, which up until only very recently were quite overtuned in general. and they move faster than assault. it just is capable of more effective assault than assault is

though i will admit, it certainly isnt nearly as bad as it used to be

that is undeniable

[tulip warren]

TTK isn't everything but yeah, if you're using mk14 at less than 50-80m then it shouldn't be better than ARs at being an AR

It could use +2 damage so its a three shot bodyshot, until its given +2 I am just gonna continue using the long barrel lol

[unkempt meadow]

kinda confused about the reasoning for the m110 upcoming nerf saying "with input buffer, it become one of fastest TTK gun in short range"
its literaly always been able to do this (better actually) since before early access and not been a problem
also we just gona ignore the groza ump and fal (+ evo but the recoil is kinda nuts) all which have faster ttk, less recoil and are way more forgiving on a missed shot

[slim topaz]

This. DMRs are not treated with the most rational balance.

[zealous oasis]

that conveniently ignores that the groza, ump, and fal are all cqc weapons. thats their area of use. they cannot reach out anywhere near as far as the m110

[unkempt meadow]

ok cool so we nerfing snipers cause you can 1 tap someone in the head at 5m

also the fal is not a cqc weapon

[tall sequoia]

you're right, fal isn't a cqc weapon

it's an everywhere and everything weapon

[zealous oasis]

okay so, since m110 is way more forgiving than snipers for missing shots, it should be nerfed?

[unkempt meadow]

since the fal is more forgiving then the m110 should it be nerfed?

[zealous oasis]

imo, yes

but also i think its pretty debatable that its "more forgiving"

but i do get your point, fal is just a poor example of it

[unkempt meadow]

i honestly dont care that much if this does go through id doesnt effect my play style that much with the weapon swap changes to pistols. its just why

[zealous oasis]

however, i think ultimately it simply was not oki's intent for the m110 to have the ttk that it currently has given how much it also excels at much longer ranges

fingers in too many pies sort of thing

[unkempt meadow]

i just dont think its an actual problem

[zealous oasis]

i dont quite agree, but i think it was a very minor "problem" at worst

[unkempt meadow]

atleast if it is its as much as any of the other guns that are faster or the same

[zealous oasis]

i dont really think it demanded attention over many various other things

i also think 250 would have been just fine

200 seems a bit much

[unkempt meadow]

yep

[slim topaz]

M110 (and all low firerate weapons inherently) are brutally unforgiving if you miss.

Even with better/on par ttk with the CQC kings, you will not be winning 90% of the time.

[jagged jay]

this nerf shouldnt change much if u are actually using the gun at range

200rpm is still plenty good for follow up shots

so i think its fine

altho it is a little weird why it was nerfed in the first place, their are much faster ttk weapons that dont require spam firing

but whatever

[unkempt meadow]

this is all also ignoring armor which spikes all dmr ttks to absurdly bad numbers

[jagged jay]

huh

oh

yeah

[unkempt meadow]

this change makes the m110 a .600 ttk at 0m with normal armor

which is the ttk it has now at 200m

[spice lintel]

• M110 rate of fire reduced from 300 to 200 (with input buffer, it become one of fastest TTK gun in short range)

m110 nerf nooo !!!!

[unkempt meadow]

guess we gona find out in 25mins

updates being pushed

[lapis nest]

Dammit Oki, 250 is ok but 200? What the fuck

[jagged jay]

cant wait for my dmr to shoot the same speed as a sniper

[ornate sleet]

m110 murdered

[unkempt meadow]

i doubt that but its 100% not necessary and kinda weird

atleast give more dmg to deal with armor then so we dont have tanked ttk at the ranges its supposed to excel at

[ornate sleet]

.6 ttk vs literally any armor

may as well use the G3

or you know, one of the wannabe DMR ARs

[unkempt meadow]

svd is .483 aganst normal armor at 200m compaired to the m110s new rof putting it at .800

.500 without armor at 200m lol

[ornate sleet]

🤮

just revert the m110 to its launch stats

thatd be so much better than this

fuck

time to just medic SMG rush for 10 levels til i have the G3

[unkempt meadow]

lol i just prestiged so im only lvl 25 atm

did it right before the g3 was announced so i havent even tried that

[zealous oasis]

g3 slaps

its good fun

but it really reinforces the need for a Battle Rifle category

[unkempt meadow]

tried it in shooting range seems like it invalidates the mk14

[zealous oasis]

G3 is fine, but the Mk14 is suffering for being shoehorned into DMRs

[ornate sleet]

the mk14 invalidates the mk14

lets be real

[unkempt meadow]

fair

[zealous oasis]

this is... why do you hurt me

[unkempt meadow]

which is unfortunate because as a gun the ebr is one of my favorites

[zealous oasis]

ye. its dope as shit. but also its got the same issue as the SVD and MG36; its not really a mk14 ebr

it looks like one, but throwing a ferrari body over a minivan skeleton doesnt make it a ferrari

[unkempt meadow]

lol mg36 is like my 2nd most used gun

[zealous oasis]

its fun

[ornate sleet]

wish i had 5 less kills

[zealous oasis]

until you try the drum barrel

[ornate sleet]

literally 1984

lol

[unkempt meadow]

ive got like 1600 on the mg36, dont like the drum to slow

[ornate sleet]

MG36 feels like an assault rifle thats two sizes too big

[unkempt meadow]

have like 5k on the m110 between early access and pre release

[zealous oasis]

im a degen so ive got more time on GFL than i care to admit. so im incapable of running any MG36 in any game without a drum mag if theres one available

and thats... a chore in BBR

[unkempt meadow]

lol

[ornate sleet]

just run the ultimax and squint

[zealous oasis]

im always squinting

ive got shit eyebals

see i cant even type

[unkempt meadow]

i mean technically claymores are my 2nd most used gun

"gun"

[zealous oasis]

i think i recently overtook HEAT RPG with SSG69 for my second most used gun

[unkempt meadow]

i wanted claymores/AP mines to be changed so i just ruined isle and tensa town for days

[zealous oasis]

hahaha

[unkempt meadow]

have like 2100 claymore kills

[zealous oasis]

WTF

you werent kidding when you said ruined

OH FUCK I REMEMBER YOU

FUCKING ISLE

[unkempt meadow]

i got like 5 100+ kill games with like 80% of the kills being claymores

[zealous oasis]

yes. your claymore hurt me a lot

claymores*

at one point i eventually just started yelling "SCRUB DADDY" when i got killed by a random claymore, regardless of who it belonged to

on isle, anyway

that map is heaven for claymores

[unkempt meadow]

ngl it was some of the most fun ive ever had in a video game

[ornate sleet]

shooting range to confirm: feels bad

thats my feedback

[zealous oasis]

aye. i eventually sucumbed to the sickness and spammed claymores for a while too. so fucking funny to get random-ass hitmarkers and kills

[unkempt meadow]

i think i was cry laughing on a lonovo night match when i got a 15 kill feed

[zealous oasis]

also uh, thats probably the goal. Its likely the DMR oki 100% doesnt want to be fire-rate spammed because of its damage

to play devils advocate

which i realise is dangerous to do in the DMR thread

be gentle pls

[ornate sleet]

im not talking point blank

[jagged jay]

launching the game now im scared to try the new m110

[ornate sleet]

it feels sluggish at range

[jagged jay]

it was one of my favorite guns : (

[ornate sleet]

give it a damage ramp up from 40 under 5m or something

if you have ot nerf it for some godforsaken reason

[jagged jay]

average battlebit player when a weapon class is slightly viable

[unkempt meadow]

yeah it feels bad but it doesnt change much aganst un armored past 100m

armored its gona feel like total ass though

[zealous oasis]

as an SSG main until i get back up to the MSR, welcome to my world

sometimes i straight up dont bother shooting support lol

[jagged jay]

m110 feels fine at range imo

[unkempt meadow]

also my previous armor ttk calculations were wrong for normal armor, it was for light armor

but it doesnt really change anything

if this change is gona stay it should get a buff to dmg to deal with atleast light armor

[ornate sleet]

ill probably get used to it but as of right now: i dont like it, not one bit

also that yeah

[unkempt meadow]

60 dmg is the break point

[ornate sleet]

a guy with any armor is like fighting some scifi power armor

its really rough

[unkempt meadow]

it doubles your ttk

well

current stats its .600 against light chest .300 no armor

60 keeps it at .300 aganst light but still .6 against normal

[ornate sleet]

what would it need for LB/Heavy to break it to .3 vs normal

i feel like thats fair

[unkempt meadow]

think lb is 5% on the m110

so like 57 something

[ornate sleet]

no i meant how much past 60 for LB to two shot normal

[unkempt meadow]

to high cause then you 1shot to the head against no helm

[ornate sleet]

bleh

even i dont want that power

was just wondering if there was a niche before that point yk

[unkempt meadow]

i lied its 63

which is a 94.5 hs

for normal

[ornate sleet]

sick

[unkempt meadow]

and 56 against light

60 makes lb 2 shot normal

[ornate sleet]

i feel like if its gonna be the superheavyweight DMR

hell yeah

it ought to get that bump vs armor to retain a niche

like how m200 + ranger headshots exo

but you know, much smaller

[unkempt meadow]

this is getting close to the idea i had for a conversion to the SVD before the big DMR update

was 60 dmg 10 round 1000 velo and 175 rpm

to do this exact thing

[ornate sleet]

theyre already like

2/3 there

[jagged jay]

Can we please get the PSO-1 scope the SVD looks stupid af with NATO sights and the ip78 is just goofy

[unkempt meadow]

tbf i also wanted ranger barrel but that would make it a 1shot hs if it had the same scalings as snipers

but i dont think they need them now

[jagged jay]

this is the scope i talking about

a proper wooden skin would be nice too

[unkempt meadow]

talking about scopes where the 3x at

theres an option for 3x sens but no 3x

[jagged jay]

there might be one but we would never know cause scopes dont have their zoom level labled on them

[unkempt meadow]

you can test quite easy actually

just max 3x sens and go through them all

[zealous oasis]

ive already done that a while ago

[unkempt meadow]

same

[zealous oasis]

none of them use 3x

[unkempt meadow]

^

slip and flir are 2x

[zealous oasis]

yep

all else is 4x

despite them not all actually being the same magnification

even the slip and FLIR are quite different magni levels

[unkempt meadow]

isnt the flir usually like 3.4

or something weird

nvm they all over the place

[zealous oasis]

dunno bout IRL, but at least in game its not all that much less than 2nd-tier medium scopes

or i to be more accurate, its no closer to the slip's magni level than it is to the 2nd-tier scopes

pretty much right in the middle, but in-use that makes it feel closer to the 2nd tier scopes

but its reticle is the size of the moon so its not a very useful thing anyway

[brazen spire]

the m125 is 3x tho and i think atleast 1 other aswell, someone reddit made a chart

[jagged jay]

is strikefire 1x

or 1.2x

it looks slightly zoomedin

[brazen spire]

ye strikefire's kinda goofy, honestly the worst short range scope imo

[jagged jay]

idk i kinda like it

[zealous oasis]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3007979108

not the reddit chart, but shameless self-plug

[brazen spire]

hehe

[unkempt meadow]

i guess i stand corrected kinda strange the sens levels dont do anything then

or it was changed since i tested it

[spice lintel]

How bad is the M110 nerf

[zealous oasis]

not very from what these gents have been saying

like, it should still have only been 250 instead of 200

but the hysterics you can see a bit further up seem to have been just that; hysterics

[jagged jay]

its fine'

still performs the same at range

[unkempt meadow]

if the pistols didnt just get buffed on draw speed i would be actualy pissed

but otherwise its meh

[jagged jay]

could of been 250 instead of 200

but its fine

[unkempt meadow]

it should get something compensating or have been yeah 250 instead

[spice lintel]

M110 NERF ? Literally unusable . quitting . sobbing .

my first message in the dmr thread i had 1600 kills 👀

[zinc heath]

fire rate feels like its cut in half. Mango is coping.

[jagged jay]

it feels fine

[dusty patio]

BRUH

5K KILLS

[jagged jay]

yall are mad overreacting you know that it had no place being that strong in cqc

[dusty patio]

I still only have like 300 on a single gun

Though I finally habe every weapon in game

[jagged jay]

altho 250rpm would be a lot more reasonable

[dusty patio]

And the scorpion evo..........

[zealous oasis]

welcome to the pain

[dusty patio]

Why doesn't it have a muzzle attachment

[spice lintel]

only gun i use lmao

[zealous oasis]

i went through the unlocks before anything got buffed or nerfed. it was disappointment after disappointment

[spice lintel]

im gonna miss my CQC sweaty drop shot spam click shenanigans

[dusty patio]

None of the guns in game particularly have there special optics implemented in game

Other than the f2000

And maybe some others?

[zealous oasis]

at the time; as val, SVD, Rsh, sort of G36C, MSR, and scorp evo were all huge disappointments, which you only find out after unlocking them. major buzzkill

of those, MSR is still in a real bad place. I main MSR T_T

[dusty patio]

Svd was not that much of a buzzkill to me at all

[zealous oasis]

and we just dont talk about the evo

when did you unlock the SVD?

[dusty patio]

In fact the svd is one of the guns I've had the most fun with

[dusty patio]

I unlocked this thing yesterday

I've had the svd for a while

And I got loads of kills on it already

[spice lintel]

scorp is like a laser

its so much fun

[zealous oasis]

stop

dont spread lies

youll get peoples hope up

[dusty patio]

And I can tell you the svd plays incredibly well

[jagged jay]

isn't g36c literally just a better m4

[zealous oasis]

yes. but it wasnt when i unlocked it

[dusty patio]

I can tell

The g36c is just incredibly average

The famas is something different

[jagged jay]

Average is good

[zealous oasis]

nah, g36 is great now

[dusty patio]

Along with the FAL

[jagged jay]

Famas is good

Super good

[dusty patio]

The FAL smashes people to pieces

[zealous oasis]

FAL just exists outside of AR balancing

[dusty patio]

Fal is a mistake

[jagged jay]

One more reason why we need battle rifle class

[dusty patio]

It should never have been an AR

[zealous oasis]

ye lol. it also plays nothing like a FAL actually would

[jagged jay]

We desperately need battle rifle class

[zealous oasis]

pls

[dusty patio]

The fal in reality should be must slower but damn

If this is wrong then I don't wanna ve right

[jagged jay]

Can we all agree that a battle rifle class would be well balanced with a damage curve in-between dmrs and ars

[dusty patio]

Yes

We can finally have actually balanced battle rifles

The ones that are in game are suffering big time rn

[jagged jay]

Also mk14 ebr should stay in the dmr class, it's technically both a dmr and br but I think the dmr class should have a full auto option still

[dusty patio]

The G3 is not just suffering with its muzzle device

But it's fire rate

Irl the g3 works under loads of pressure

The gun doesn't vent gasses anywhere

Nor does it attempt to really slow down the action

So the g3 fires at high rates of fire with lots of jittery recoil

The mk14 can actually stay where it is technically

Since it is a chassis modification of the m14 into a dmr

[jagged jay]

Exactly

[dusty patio]

But the FAL is literally clinically insane in its place as a assault rifle

And the G3 is bed ridden

Literal comatose state

They both play really well but they're clearly not what they're supposed to be

[raven parrot]

G3 is actually inferior to F2000 in every stat other than velocity/dropoff, which is mildly interesting

[unique apex]

The last patch killed my interest in m110 now it official dead

[raven parrot]

According to my calc it's the slowest ttk gun in the game now :p

which in practise isn't really true, but I think delegating this gun to being only effective at longer ranges is fine

200 is a bit lower than I think was neccesary

[lapis nest]

Damage?

[raven parrot]

I mean useful stats
like, damage on its own doesn't directly apply in game without considering other stats too

[lapis nest]

Damage isnt useful?

[raven parrot]

I just said, on its own

[lapis nest]

Why did you said "I mean useful stats" then

[raven parrot]

like I can't just say "this gun has 40 damage" and you'd be able to tell me if that's good or not without knowing the fire rate etc

[lapis nest]

Also no way it's TTK is worse than the Mk14, which is also 3 shot kill but 100 less rpm

[raven parrot]

I'm not sure which gun you refer to here

both actually tend to kill more slowly than MK14

[lapis nest]

What

Oh ur talking about the M110

[raven parrot]

no

[lapis nest]

Ur talking about the G3?

Have less TTK than the Mk14?

[raven parrot]

G3 or F2000 or maybe MK14, idk rn

[raven parrot]

worse ttk (less is ambiguous)

[lapis nest]

G3 have worst TTK than Mk14 then?

[raven parrot]

on average they're probably about the same tbh

but if the enemies aren't damaged then yes

[lapis nest]

No, it takes 34 damage at 500RPM less time to reach 100HP than 40 damage at 400RPM to reach it

And armor doesnt matter that much since the legs have no armor

Just aim for the legs

[raven parrot]

most people do not aim for the legs specifically but I can redo numbers with a higher ratio of limb shots

[brazen spire]

yes but can the f2000 do a 870m counter snipe while also being effective in cqb?

[raven parrot]

upped limb shot ratio to 70% to represent what might be something like a skilled enough player aiming for limbs
G3 kills in about 0.305 seconds and MK14 now 0.335, so if you can do this you are right.

[lapis nest]

G3 medium scope is horrible, the visual recoil is so high

[placid plinth]

it hasn't been a problem because you needed long barrel to 2 tap, which most players didn't bother to unlock
but since the damage buff, it became apparent that a 2 tap DMR with 300 firerate is just not fun to fight against

[lapis nest]

Ehem 150 kills 3 shots

[unique apex]

Even before 2 taps with 350 rpm it still nowhere op. I even tried it with my mouse macro to get the right timing for each shot and it get punished hard for missing just 1 bullet.

And it have very long ads time so you will always shot second before the enemy

It not op in anyway cqc

But well we still have the pistol buff so meh

M110 die when the patch happen anyway for me

[unique apex]

Oh forgot to mention that if you hit armor then you 100% lose that cqc because how unforgiving semi auto is

[placid plinth]

it's almost like DMRs aren't supposed to be strong in CQC? lol

the other DMRs aren't either, but they're also not aids further out

the nerf was very much deserved, there's just a knee jerk reaction against it from people that liked abusing the weapon

[unique apex]

It never strong cqc lmao. At least you have a chance of fight back now it trash

[placid plinth]

it's almost like DMRs aren't supposed to be strong in CQC? lol

[unique apex]

Well you just repeated yourself lol

[lapis nest]

Never? Bro I chopped so many kneecaps with the M110

[unique apex]

If the enemy play bad or you play good then you deserve those kills

[brazen spire]

g3 would like to have a talk with you, jk that thing is an ok ar with dmr range 🤌

[raven parrot]

If the G3 had AR velocity/falloff I would argue that it would be weaker than any AR.

[brazen spire]

literally worse scar but better recoil if that was the case

[raven parrot]

There are ARs that beat it universally otherwise

[lapis nest]

Someone pull up AK5C stat pls

[unique apex]

And what make you think it was strong CQC before? All the people I ask said they only win 10% of the time in CQC

[brazen spire]

oh yeah that rotten piece of garbage
my apologies

[raven parrot]

my stats are not in a format that makes representing a single gun that easy, but here's some compared to an ak74 for context

[lapis nest]

Add labels my dude, idk which which

Also compare it to ak5c

[raven parrot]

hmm, on mobile the picture doesn't work right

on my laptop it looks fine

top row is ak5c and bottom row is ak74

just have a whole AR chunk, AK5C is the lowermost one

[tulip rapids]

Yes i would have been happy with 250-300 kinda range but this is too slow

[unkempt meadow]

got a bunch of matches in with it after unlocking it again.
simply put its bad and in the worst ways

dont think ive been out gunned by ARs more at 150m ever

[tulip rapids]

150m? U cant really full auto that range without the aug or f2000

[unkempt meadow]

and m4, ak47, acr, sg550

fal out ttks you even if they miss like 6 shots

if you hit armor once you are boned

and this is a totally diff issue but are the servers having a conniption atm? specifically with the f2k. thing doesnt seem to proc hit directions till your already dead.

[spice lintel]

It’s pretty rough ay

I really took the 300 for granted

90% of CQC are a one tap assist into resetting

My lucky left click spam attack is now effectively uhh lobotomized

[scarlet topaz]

160x when

[ornate sleet]

320x for the Unica first

[scarlet topaz]

nah 640x for my M9 pistol first

[spice lintel]

1000x on the deagle sir

[inland sequoia]

69420x on the glock when?

[tulip warren]

42 base damage on mk14 when?

[spice lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/when-svd-svd-gif-25573055

[honest pond]

Remove the DMR's from classes that AREN'T Recon/Sniper. Not sure who made the decision to add them to the other classes, but this is terrible for overall class balance.

[raven parrot]

Mmm. It is bad for class balance but it’s also a nice reason to play assault. Perhaps recon should instead get some buffs of their own for DMRs?

[tulip rapids]

Yes if no dmr on assault 90% of assault players wont play assault

[spice lintel]

I use m110 on assault

Engineer if I see a damn vehicle

[blazing coral]

I'm probably gonne get hated on for this but I feel like assault should have SMGs and not dmrs and engi shouldn't have smgs

[spice lintel]

SMGS or DMRs

[heavy quarry]

DMR for support/Recon

[blazing coral]

Not support. Doesn’t fit.

[brazen spire]

i mean with how it plays rn, kinda yeah
also it could just be temporary to fix the extreme lack of guns the class currently has to suffer under

[blazing coral]

Support does have a severe lack of variety in weapons right now but slapping dmrs on as a bandaid isn’t a good idea. Besides, fully half (6/12) of the known upcoming weapons are for support, so it won’t be an issue for too long.

[brazen spire]

yeah only for like 6-8 months if the development cycle continues like it is rn, which i kind of doubt looking at how much crunch they all seem to be doing at the moment
so uhm yes 6 support weapons

[slim topaz]

I like to SUPPORT my teammates by getting mass assists by helping the SMG medic enter the enemy fortified position by oppressing window-dwellers from medium range with my DMR.

[blazing coral]

Then use a machine gun, not a marksman weapon.

[slim topaz]

Problem, the machine guns in this game suck cock. dabs

ARs are just better or equivalent at the job LMGs are supposed to fulfill most of the time. DMRs allow me to be a little further away as I oppress the window-dwellers.

It's a nice and, for now, effective niche. Thanks, balance team!

Make the MG36 have G36C levels of recoil then we 'can talk.' Make the M249 have F200 recoil and then 'we'll talk.'

[blazing coral]

I feel like you're misunderstanding what the purpose of a machine gun is if you think ars are better at their job.

not trying to sound shitty

[brazen spire]

yeah in order for lmgs to be effective there'd have to be some sort of suppression effect motion blur, tunnel vision (vingette), weapon sway (kind of how the long range scopes sway but always)

[slim topaz]

No, that's fair, it's fine, but I doooo understand I think:

There's no actual niche for holding down a position and spamming bullets in this game though, which is what their purpose would supposedly be.
Suppression doesn't exist, and people will CLAP BACK instantly and kill you if you think you can spray down 5 blokes at mid range

[brazen spire]

well machine guns should suppress the enemy but if you can't hit 'em due to recoil, visual recoil that just doesn't work ._.

[blazing coral]

Sure that would be nice but suppression doesn't need to have its own mechanic to work. Suppressing works the same way it does irl, in that it sends the message that if you show yourself in this area you're gonna get hit at least once.

[slim topaz]

To make clapping back more difficult so LMGs can actually hold a position, reduce their recoil a bunch to increase their effective ttk and reach (to beyond that of most SMGs and ARs trying to clap back), or add a suppression mechanic.

[blazing coral]

I think a slight increase in flinch dealt by MGs could work as well, though it would need to be done very carefully.

[slim topaz]

As of now, DMRs are filling the role of being able to help lock down a mid-long area, not as well as a 'balanced' LMG design imo, but it's there.

[brazen spire]

yeah but that doesn't work in game
so we have to resort to "fear" effects to actually tell 'em "go fuck of from there or get blasted"
or yk laser lsws and lmgs

[brazen spire]

mg3

[blazing coral]

I think machine guns could probably do with lower recoil overall, and maybe lower handling to compensate.

that and/or make bipod do something

[slim topaz]

Bipods would actually go hard if they just reduced recoil to like F2000 levels and were decently compatible with most surfaces (?). I haven't used them but I heard they're pretty bad.

[brazen spire]

they suck

[blazing coral]

Bipod only does something on sniper rifles with high zoom scopes, because they eliminate sway when prone so you don’t need to hold breath. That’s it though.

[slim topaz]

To reiterate, since this is the DMR thread, DMRs rn allow me to pretend to be what the LMG role should also be doing. Now imagine working Bipods on DMRs

DMRs, the one gun I frequently run out of ammo with. Glad it's on assault so I can carry my smol ammo box.

[tulip warren]

This is a shit idea because sniper rifles are better than DMRs at range anyway, all this change would do is make it so dmrs aren't used as often. Maybe thats why you want the change? Got killed by too many dmrs lol

[tulip warren]

Working bipods on dmrs would make ppl think twice about bumrushing an objective without any tactics whatsoever

the majority of the time objectives fall not because of actual tactics being used but because one team has more players attacking the objective and has better skilled players

the balance is a bit too heavy on zerg rushing atm, but maybe thats the objective of the game idk

[tulip warren]

Yeah, they actually give you worse recoil when deployed compared to a vertical grip 🤦‍♂️

I'm surprised this isn't higher on the list of things to balance

[zealous oasis]

unfortunately, with how fast players are, thats not really a guarantee, and with most people playing as medic, they dont give a shit anyway. doubly so now that all classes can self heal

[ornate sleet]

ngl its kind of hard to imagine worse handling when you're already in the realm of half a second to ADS, 7 seconds to reload

and huge speed penalties

but thats LMG stuff not DMR stuff

[spice lintel]

i hit 200 😄

[fringe whale]

Man they really do not like the M110 apparently. Lost half its ammo, and nearly half it's rate of fire.

[brazen spire]

it's a dmr, it directly counters smg medics, oki has an smg medic bias...

[fringe whale]

300ms best case TTK is just really bad, and any miss or armor and you are up to 600ms. Gun is basically dead outside of long range at which point just use a sniper. Oh well, touching DMRs just made them nerf DMRs it seems like.

[brazen spire]

well "it is to good in cqc"
meanwhile flanking and using only a close range optic 💀

[fringe whale]

too good in CQC, while it has like a .92 move speed modifier on it

with HORRIBLE ADS speed

[brazen spire]

ye... what do you expect from people
"it two hit on most ranges? it op!"

[pseudo juniper]

it is still very, very good

you only need to connect 2 leg shots, and you easily outrange anything short of sniper rifles

it's easily on par if not better than the SVD, because even though the SVD has a faster theoretical TTK, you need to connect 3 shots (which is harder) and you have a lot more recoil to deal with

[fringe whale]

On the other hand faster rate of fire means less penalty for missed shots or clipped armor

you clip armor or miss with the m110 and you add 300ms to your TTK

still surprised leg damage is at 1x honestly though. Would have thought they add a limb modifier as leg meta develops

[pseudo juniper]

limb modifiers would make TTKs feel way too inconsistent imo

[fringe whale]

Not really, it would put shooting limbs in line with shooting armor.

Instead of being optimal which is a really weird meta

[pseudo juniper]

i think a better solution would be to make armor cover more of your character

[fringe whale]

I think limb modifiers would be fine. But sure you could put armor on legs if you want ¯_(ツ)_/¯

We already have inconsistant TTK with headshots though

[brazen spire]

what about a tarkov style health system, giving you toe gobblers, hs crackheads and meatgrinder by volume of fire
jk ofc, would be funny tho if you had more interesting limb mechanics

[brazen spire]

ye but those are positively inconsistent

[snow crescent]

as a PDW medic, I feel attacked

[brazen spire]

use assault

[snow crescent]

no I like my overpowerd selfheal

also I like reviving

[brazen spire]

k, fair point

[jagged jay]

buff m110 to 250rpm

[supple panther]

what? It's super fine at 200

[supple panther]

Limb modifiers would help a lot yeah, even if it's just something like 0.6 or 0.8

[fringe whale]

A 0.8 modifier would mean you need 125 damage to kill with legs, which is similar to medium armor TTK.

[supple panther]

That seems pretty decent to be honest

[vague rock]

Yeah, I like the sound of that. Aiming for the legs should never be incentivised. Don't even need to add that modifier to the arms either, just the legs.

[jagged jay]

armor needs to be reworked as a whole before more is added too it

[snow crescent]

Armor rn feels like an RNG mechanic because “oops I / the enemy happened to hit the funny blue crosshair and now the fight is going a different direction”

[unkempt meadow]

this. but its just extra bad on dmrs due to the fire rates. most guns are getting a .030 to .050 increase in ttk and that decides fights. but the dmrs are like a .100 to .300 ttk increase

[unkempt meadow]

or dmg to deal with armor

[zealous oasis]

from an outsiders perspective, i find it quite odd to be complaining about high TTKs for a DMR. thats not their use-case

(but thats just my opinion, please dont hurt me)

[unkempt meadow]

its not that they have a higher ttk its that they have hugely differing ttks from factors mostly out of your control im ok with the nerf to the m110 as a baseline or in a vacuum. .200 to .300 is totally reasonable
1 armor hit at the old rof was at a ttk of .400, now 1 armor hit is .600, doubled in both cases

compared to the svd, which is .272 no armor and .409 with 1 hit of armor

g3 is .240 and .360

[zealous oasis]

i mean. armour annihilates TTKs across the board

its why people aim for legs

[unkempt meadow]

yes but with dmrs, m110 specificly its adding a whole extra person to kill with 25 points of armor

[zealous oasis]

i mean. thats kind of just part and parcel for high-damage, low-RoF guns

Rsh suffers the same sort of thing. its like, 150rpm and usually a two shot, but armour can make it a three shot (and i think even four shot if you shoot chest and head exo, but that might have only been before it got buffed)

[unkempt meadow]

the rsh is big garbo and also a side arm, and can 1shot to the head

and the deagle is basicly better in every way

[zealous oasis]

thats not really the point. the point is that high-damage, low-RoF guns are always going to suffer more from the current "additional health pool" armour system. and DMRs are not CQC weapons. i do not think it is oki's intention for you to be able to mow people down at 10m with a M110, hence the RPM drop. i think 200 was the extreme edge of "fine", verging on too much

until armour gets reworked, its just gonna kind of suck to hit armour with sniper rifles, high calibre side arms, and DMRs

its an unfortunate part of the game being in very early access and Oki already having way too much work for a single dev to do :/

the best we can do is be patient with him. M110 is by no means a bad gun, and I think works perfectly fine in cqc for how far out it can reach as a mini-sniper. lets try to get the rest of the guns (cough ARs) balanced and see where we end up lol

[unkempt meadow]

100% with the armor rework who know when we are getting that

[zealous oasis]

well. my bet is itll be a while. it works well enough in its current form, and as such I dont think is as high-priority as getting the rest of the game straightened out and tidied up a bit

but, there is now a feedback thread for Armour, so maybe itll be sooner than later

[unkempt meadow]

my issue with it why is this specific gun which as far as i can see on the discord feedback threads was such a problem over like 6 other guns that are way more prevalent problems this was the one he picked

[zealous oasis]

probably because it was the most straightforward of the changes to make

[unkempt meadow]

ovbiously it wasnt

i guess it effects the least amount of people

is all i can think

[zealous oasis]

well, youre always going to have people complain when they have their favourite weapons nerfed in a way that affects their playstyle, and they will be the loudest about it. But using a DMR as a cqc-machine in a game where nothing is set in stone... you kinda have to prepare yourself for that sort of thing lol

thats just my two cents about it. it would feel epic and awesome and all sorts of other superlatives to whip around and one-shot someone with a sniper rifle in the chest, point blank, but I know thats just not the niche sniper rifles are supposed to occupy, so i just keep those thoughts to my own fantasies lol

[unkempt meadow]

to be clear it was rarely if ever used cqc, it was just kinda bs for someone to close the gap and lose with an smg.

and im fine with that being nerfed 100%

this hurts the long and midrange as much which is my main problem

[zealous oasis]

aye. i think oki was just making sure it wasnt a meta that developed?

[unkempt meadow]

there never would be

[zealous oasis]

yeah i think it probably could have been a small recoil buff with the RPM nerf

[unkempt meadow]

you just have to look at the other guns for like 20 seconds

like its been like this for years prior

[zealous oasis]

but honestly, the entire DMR class is a total mess, and you have guns like the G3 and Mk14 (and SVD because Oki doesnt know what an SVD actually is) that do function well in CQC that sort of leave the door open to applying that to the M110 as well

the sooner the G3, Mk14, Fal, and Scar get a Battle Rifle class, the less that ARs and DMRs are gonna suffer balance-wise

[unkempt meadow]

thats a bit of an over statement, they function in cqc, dont know about well

[zealous oasis]

relative to the more traditional "mini-sniper" DMRs, the MK20 and M110

[ornate sleet]

Yeah being able to tap fire a SCAR and achieve significantly better results than any actual DMR is a bigger problem. If you want to talk about precision weapons being used in CQC...

[unkempt meadow]

fair enough

[zealous oasis]

The G3 and Mk14 purely because theyre full-auto AND higher RoF, and the SVD because... well honestly I still dont know why Oki decided to balance the SVD in the direction he did

[unkempt meadow]

the fal is the single reason this nerf is wack

[zealous oasis]

the FAL is just wack in general

running short mag and no attachments on it is fun as hell, but being honest; it sits even further outside the game's overall balance than the groza and UMP do

[ornate sleet]

I think everyone who has used it can agree that the FAL shouldn't exist the way it does lol

Hopefully the proposed battle rifle category would lead to some stat changes for its new members

[zealous oasis]

aye. fal has the damage of a BR, damage drop off of an AR, and ttk-potential of an SMG. its ludicrous lol

[unkempt meadow]

its got longer then AR range lol

unless by ar you mean sg550 and aug

150m drop start?

or 200?

[zealous oasis]

ideally (in my mind), FAL would go with G3, Mk14, and Scar in the new Battle RIfles category. and they would all be distinguished by their DMR damage fall off, but damage levels somewhere around where they already currently are with the four weapons. RoF adjusted for FAL for balance

mostly i mean its just way closer to AR damage drop-off than SMG damage drop-off whilst having the crazy-low TTK of an SMG

well, not even that. it just has the lowest TTK outright. even SMGs cant touch it

[unkempt meadow]

the scorp does inside 10m lmao

[zealous oasis]

the scorp is also a turd

i love it, but i hate using it specifically because its a turd

its fun 2 times out of 10, and frustrating the other 8 because its recoil is way too high AND OKI DECIDED TO FUCKING NERF ITS RANGE BECAUSE THATS WHAT IT NEEDED I GUESS

[oblique escarp]

Please give DMR's for support ;;w;;

[zealous oasis]

no. break G3 and Mk14 off into BRs and give BRs to support

[unkempt meadow]

give support a m110 with a 50 drum mag

[zealous oasis]

its already ludicrous that any class other than recon can use DMRs, as thats the only reason for the recon class to exist; sniping. engi having it is more or less fine because RPGs also cater to a long-range playstyle against vehicles

but even just engi having DMRs makes it completely and utterly pointless to ever use a DMR on recon, since you have shitty armour choices and you cant wear a helmet.

[unkempt meadow]

honestly only reason assault shouldnt have every weapon other then snipers imo is because of SMGs

[zealous oasis]

assault having DMRs is just pouring salt on the wound. giving them to support too would be the equivalent of just putting a gun to recons head and pulling the trigger

yeah. sniper rifles and the Mk20/M110 (plus supports arsenal, duh) are kind of the only weapons that assault shouldnt have. Assault's main perk should be weapon selection

[unkempt meadow]

and assault is like 60% of the reason DMRs are even competitve atm

[zealous oasis]

ye. recon needs better gadgets to work with DMRs, but IMO they actually play pretty well with Engi. Use HEAT rockets to bully vehicles (or infantry >:) from afar and then swap to your DMR to continue to bully the infantry

[unkempt meadow]

idk what gadget you could give recon short of wall hacks to make me pick recon for DMRs over assault or engi

maybe if said gadget made you ads 30% faster

[slim topaz]

Yeah, why not give them a little UAV? A lil' HUD with a lil' wallhacking, or maybe a lil' bit of 'see enemy dorito through wall after spotting,' hmm?

[slim topaz]

This would be kinda hot though. Quickscoping comeback???

[unkempt meadow]

i mean assault is already 20% still slow af on DMRs

it would help reg sniper rifles alot though lol

[zealous oasis]

i put forward the idea that one of recon's smaller passives would be having the SOFLAM binocs from leader role without taking up a gadget slot

thats an asset that isnt even being used anymore, give that to recon instead of making me give up a generally really useful gadget for something i basically need on me at all times with the shitty scope glint

and since DMRs cant even use anything over a 6x, that would be a tremendous help for spotting targets

[slim topaz]

Yeah I think the Assault buff specifically doesn't apply to medium and up scopes, ONLY the short range scopes. Which explains the sucky feel

[unkempt meadow]

no it works with 4x for sure, might be reduced havent tested indepth though

havent touched 6x on a dmr ever

so no idea there

i honestly want more 2x and 3x scope options and they need to be more clear on what ones they are in the menu

[ornate sleet]

Recon is a class that needs some sort of BS exclusive gadgets that force them to play near the objective to use properly. But that's a whole other issue

I just think back to BF3 recon chucking wizard balls

[zealous oasis]

give me wizard balls

[tulip warren]

give me 42 damage mk14

[tulip warren]

it's alright but the scope glint isnt worth it

[raven parrot]

guns at certain damage values suffer far more heavily from it than others though

though DMRs below 50 damage actually don't seem to care that much

M110 is affected by it greatly of course.

[fringe whale]

Personally I'd take a revert of the M110 before any of the changes :P, gun just got chain nerfed

chain nerfed and then suddently everyone decided it was OP

[zealous oasis]

...why? it can 2-shot with base damage, has more base velocity, and less vertical recoil.

if you want RPM, a Semi.Automatic.Sniper.System isnt what you should be grabbing in the first place

[fringe whale]

More horrizontal recoil (net recoil unchanged), 2 shot really changed very little. You can run a suppressor now to hide a flash I guess but that is it. Lost a ton of ammo, lost almost half its rate of fire.

[zealous oasis]

horizontal recoil is on a significantly smaller scale. net recoil is absolutely not unchanged

[fringe whale]

It is not, I did a lot of testing, the pixels of deviation off target is effectivly the same

horizontal recoil is NOT on a smaller scale

The recoil changes are just people being bad at dealing with verticle recoil somehow

Velocity buff does exist, I'll grant you that

[supple panther]

The M110 is absolutely fine as is imo
It's not good at close ranges anymore, but that's not an issue at all, it is absolutely great from like 60 to 300 meters

[fringe whale]

It was alrady bad at close ranges, now it is AWFUL at close ranges

[supple panther]

And?

[zealous oasis]

its a DMR

pull your god damn sidearm out

[fringe whale]

And the 60-300 range brakcet is AR range O.o

[supple panther]

Should be, but the M110 ranges from acceptable to very good the farther along that range it is

[fringe whale]

Sidearms should not out perform DMRs at closer range O.o