#Recon - Feedback

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

deep coral
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Kinda wish the spotter attachment was recon only tbh but these changes will help recon a lot

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Glad the spotting changes are coming before the free weekend too, will give new players a bit easier experience

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Make recon’s class passive be

Players spotted by recon stay marked twice as long
@odd oak
This is maybe the best suggestion I’ve ever posted

molten marten
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Glint no longer visible through foliage

paper dove
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Stfu battle bot

paper dove
paper dove
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hmm

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recon gets BRs

deep coral
gentle cloud
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after months of saying the same shit over and over again we got oki to listen to half of it

deep coral
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@acoustic cypress Can you suggest to Oki that recon spots last twice as long? Now that a good spotting system is in place it should be very easy to let recon be better at spotting, makes perfect sense to be its unique class ability

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I feel like this is a really really good suggestion, especially since recon got a nerf with med range scope glint

drifting oasis
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why HG tho?

acoustic cypress
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That is what I am wondering

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equally I don't desire to break that rule of PM the dev & get banned

drifting oasis
acoustic cypress
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Today is a confusing, wonderful day to say the least

deep coral
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Idk seen you mention several times “had a chat with Oki” thought you were on talking terms with him

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You’re the only person I’ve seen in the feedback channel say that

acoustic cypress
deep coral
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Oh damn really? Must’ve been someone else with your discord role, sorry man

acoustic cypress
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you can literally search my account with that phrase & nothing comes up

deep coral
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I mean am I gonna go to that trouble tho? lol

drifting oasis
acoustic cypress
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probably

drifting oasis
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mhm

deep coral
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Hmm maybe I’m trying to think of what channel it was in so I can search it

acoustic cypress
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I keep forgetting that B

drifting oasis
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i mean oki even mentioned ox1gen in a devcast so...

deep coral
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Yeah but it was someone I was in a convo with, don’t want to just tag a random person, tho I did in this case but only mistakenly

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Well again apologies

drifting oasis
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lemme just ping him then

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@molten marten

deep coral
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I mean do you agree? It feels like the absolute perfect class ability for recon now that the system is in place

drifting oasis
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yeah totally

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💯

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would cement the recon identity even more

molten marten
drifting oasis
molten marten
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I just gave him some values for attachments kittenOki

drifting oasis
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idk then shrug

molten marten
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I just use to bug him about values during playtests and he asked me if i could take a look and suggest something

deep coral
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We’re just looking for someone to suggest this to him since it seems perfect but there’s no way he’s gonna see it in this channel

molten marten
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Make a suggestion, he reads those since they were opened

deep coral
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Got it, I’ll do that, thanks for your help

molten marten
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👍

deep coral
paper dove
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remove BRs from recon

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its stupid

gentle cloud
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yea

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why not just smgs and pdws?

paper dove
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why any of those kat

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just dmrs and snipers

gentle cloud
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cause you give them a close range infiltrator role

deep coral
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But like

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What do they actually do when they infiltrate

paper dove
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its the sniper class

deep coral
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I guess it makes a bit more sense with the removal of some guns from other classes that they could

gentle cloud
deep coral
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Could give recon a placeable gadget like the trophy system that spots enemies within its radius, would help with the close range recon

wraith bough
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I am thinking of giving them a more detailed ping system with extra options (par example ping to show there's a group there, Ping to show there's a sniper, Ping to show there's a Spawn beacon)

deep coral
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Was thinking a related additional buff, could give recon a AoE ping where pinging someone (manually only, not with the attachment) would ping other enemies within a few meters of them

deep coral
wraith bough
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Could also step into the "stealthy" side of reconnaissance and have them use the old ping system of just a red arrow of where they were

ripe oak
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gross glint on medium scopes

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guess thats one less reason to use bolties

deep coral
# ripe oak gross glint on medium scopes

Yeah it’s a shame, we’ll have to see how it looks as it’s supposed to be smaller but who knows what that means. Should’ve fixed the glint cone before adding this.

gentle cloud
deep coral
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Truly

gentle cloud
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bro needs some classes or a translator 💀

paper dove
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remove brs from recon

deep coral
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Yeah it just feels wrong honestly

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Especially now that the FAL is back on assault

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Every single class can use the FAL according to the latest chart lol

edgy jay
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yeah, recon cant really engage objectives as reliably as other classes. i'd still like to see recon now with the new 3d spotting, drone, and BR combo.
drone is definitely going to be an essential tool now for recon with 3d spotting. just wish 3d spotting was and exclusive function for drone and advanced binoculars. it would give recon some unique utility while making everything else easier to balance. i don't like how they are essentially going to copy and paste what was arguably one of battlefield's worst features.
shoot Doritos, spam ping, and bind map view to somewhere easy to reach. i'm not going to enjoy developing those habits again.
i felt so free in this game, like some burden was lifted from my shoulders.

feral thistle
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Dang I’m honestly pretty stoked for the update personally

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I think swapping BRs for carbines would be best

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As val and recon just gel together in my eyes

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Also advanced binoc < SOFLAM binocs. I’ve been beating this drum for a while

deep coral
fallow surge
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Different idea: make the spot last longer if it’s a recon

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The auto ping thing only lasts 2 seconds, I’m guessing player pings last for 5-6 seconds and from there just make a recon ping last for 10

deep coral
fallow surge
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Oh you did indeed

edgy jay
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another idea: recon should be 3d spotted for significantly less time than any other class, if not at all. good compensation for giving medium scopes glint. more incentive to play recon as a stealthy flanking class with BR.

ripe oak
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:x because of 3d spotting and the new particles one could just remove glint if the 3d spot will be for the entire team

deep coral
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The glint change was acceptable with the first proposed weapon changes, where only recons had DMRs, but now recons are just going to get fucked by engineers and assault with M110s because everyone with a DMR can see exactly where they are

gentle cloud
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Glint is not even that necessary to spot someone, grass etc. stop rendering at rather close ranges

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oh well

paper dove
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only recon should get dmrs

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why did they even change that

ripe oak
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assaults/engies complained

deep coral
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^

paper dove
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its a shit change

ripe oak
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recon forever nerfed never buffed 😔

paper dove
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theirs no reason to use dmrs on non recon classes now

deep coral
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Well recon is just so fucked with the current state of things

paper dove
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why would anyone use dmr on recon if you can just have a rpg and dmr

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stupid ass change

deep coral
paper dove
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dmrs should be recon exclusive

deep coral
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Recon is the only class without any class buffs too lmao

paper dove
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Yep

plain dirge
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no reason to use anything other than bolts on recon and bolts being nerfed 🥳

deep coral
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And now bolties are just going to get decimated by DMRs at any reasonable range

deep coral
plain dirge
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?

paper dove
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Nah snipers are useless now

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instead of fixing glint they made it worse ❤️

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Now everyone will just camp with mk20

deep coral
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Yep they ruined one of the most fun gameplay loops in the game, super great

paper dove
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they fucked up a lot of balance

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they better rethink some of these changes

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cause they are horrible

plain dirge
gentle cloud
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at this point the evidence suggests otherwise

paper dove
gentle cloud
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nah they don't follow shit

deep coral
gentle cloud
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the glint has been complained about since day 1

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map voting was nearly fixed but then they reverted it to the shit version again

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even the fucking progression took a while to fix even though it was fine before the release

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bandaging changes were the worst of the suggestions in that channel as well

paper dove
gentle cloud
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be realistic man

deep coral
gentle cloud
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it's not just because of one idiot who cannot understand how probabilities work

plain dirge
deep coral
astral fox
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very excited for recons to actually be allowed to Recon

deep coral
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Yeah I think 8 seconds instead of 4 is a pretty big difference

feral thistle
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I feel like meta recon "support" is going to now be DMR med scope + the spotter attachment

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which i'm kinda here for. I've been dying for recon to be able to recon. i'm indifferent about bolt actions being less useful but maybe the med scope glare isnt as bad as it sounds

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i'm optimistic

molten marten
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Honestly, no glint on mid range scopes made mid range scopes the only options, since they had no glint that would be visible through foliage. Now they fixed glint going through foliage and added smaller glint to mid range scopes.

This makes longer range scopes more of an options since by default.

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Main issue i had with using long ranges wasnt the glint itself, but that glint going through everything and me getting one side beamed

crisp sail
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thats fair honestly
...which also introduces another issue..
rebalancing DMRs for medium range with mroe close quarters self-defense capability than bolt actions I guess?

shrewd zephyr
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no DMRs should stay med/long ranges

abstract solstice
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DMRs are made Recon-exclusive; "Finally, SRs are no longer the only reason people play Recon"

Glint gets added to Medium Scopes on SRs; "Just let me be happy for once, Oki"

DMRs arent going to be Recon-exclusive after all; "God DAMN IT"

rancid sapphire
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The roulette was perfect
All maps got to be played, there was some excitment about whats next
Now its back to tensa / basra / waki
Love the maps but variety is welcome

deep coral
rancid sapphire
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Any idea why recon gets the battle rifles?

shrewd zephyr
feral thistle
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My best guess is the high damage/low rof, just adding a new floor that the mk14 and g3 covered

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Im part of the ‘carbines for recon’ crowd

shrewd zephyr
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ya i agree recon should get carbines

feral thistle
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Since its not at all out of the possibility of irl recon units utilizing lighter carry weapons. Marine 1st recon comes to mind

shrewd zephyr
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ya give us carbines or change the classes name to marksman

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XD

astral fox
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class renamed: "Hill Wookie"

lethal hawk
deep coral
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I like the idea of giving recon some sort of stealth buffs

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I worry too that glint means people are going to spot you every time you peek

lethal hawk
# deep coral I worry too that glint means people are going to spot you every time you peek

This is bound to happen, and at that point, you can't even position yourself in an unexpected corner and try to outsmart someone with your pre-aimed Glock because they'll see exactly how you're moving. Specially with how trivial it is to chuck some C4 and punch through four walls in seconds, I think 3D spotting is just going to further flatten the range of viable tactics in the game.

paper dove
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guy guys

edgy jay
terse shale
# shrewd zephyr ya i agree recon should get carbines

I'd LOVE for carbines to be recon-only, as a "Moooom, I want an AR! Honey, we have ARs at home *points to carbines*" recon alternative.

I'd personally swap the Honey Badger and the Scorpion EVO's categories. Make the scorpion the PDW it was always meant to be, some sort of "engineer/medic's fast smg alternative with more bang", and then put the Honey Badger alongside the AS VAL.

They're both fairly logical to give to a "sneaky beaky" recon, too!

AS VAL was always my sniper of choice in PUBG, high drop, low damage, but insanely quiet with barely to no muzzle flash.

Honey Badger would pack a bigger punch, but also comes with the more unwieldy recoil of the 300BLK punching you in the chest.

Both sneaky beaky carbines, both suited to Recon! 😁

shrewd zephyr
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idk if you seen the new weopons list cange

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a lot of the ARs are now carbines like they should be lol

terse shale
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Haaaaaaaa, okay I see. Hm.. that does invalidate my tinier / less drastic shuffle idea xD

shrewd zephyr
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scorpion is also now just a smg lol

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tbh Honey Bader could have been a carbine or a PSW

terse shale
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Kind'a makes sense, I thought it was more of a PDW - like the P90 - than an SMG, but honestly PDW feels like such a weird term anyways 😆

shrewd zephyr
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but recon is gettin BRs

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so it is getting some closer ranged guns

terse shale
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Recon getting BRs would fill that same niche I had in mind with the previously-appointed Carbines. Mid-range, faster ROF, less bang than a Sniper Rifle, but more bang than a Marksman Rifle.

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Honestly, disregard my little idea/spitball blurb above! With the upcoming change, it pretty much will make both myself AND my snipeer friend very happy! 😁

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Was not aware that #dev-wip was a channel, I'll have to keep an eye on it 🔍 👀

shrewd zephyr
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naaaaaaaaaa I still want carbines most like some one said us recon units use carbines so should the ones in this game lol

obtuse marsh
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Recons getting any kind of rifle I'm ehhhhhhhh about, they should really just be at both ends of the spectrum.
Sniper rifles and SMGs, make them amazing at the range extremes but useless in the middle

feral thistle
# terse shale I'd LOVE for carbines to be recon-only, as a "Moooom, I want an AR! Honey, we ha...

I’m gonna be that guy but I’m not trying to be obnoxious. I’m 98% sure the AS-val uses a 9x39mm cartridge, .300 blk is a 7.62x35mm cartridge. Theoretically the impulse would be a higher for the as val. (If you like firearm lore/trivia)
Both shoot relatively softly depending on the platform more than the cartridge though. I am very pro giving recon carbines, as the as val and g36c are both amazing firearms irl and I just like using em

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And I like playing recon

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This is by no means a compelling argument. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

paper iron
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Currently the glint cone is 20 degrees?

fallow surge
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Yup but that’s quite a lot when you consider distance

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20 degree cone over 400m is big

latent flume
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No wonder you can see it from anywhere, 20 is nuts.

plain frost
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Don't ruin class long range identity with battle rifles pretty please

terse shale
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I'm all for glints being a DANGEROUS thing to see, as opposed to "oh! a sniper I can kill!" it should be "oh shit! they're scoping me up! duck and roll!"

fallow surge
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leaning in prone > roll when?

wraith bough
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Better accelerate me if I do it down a hill

shrewd zephyr
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the Mk. 20 is good at all ranges

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really the ony DMR that isn't good at all ranges is the M110 but that's a barely

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btw I dont want recon to lose DMRs like I said counter argument

obtuse marsh
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I agree, they should remove DMRs

shrewd zephyr
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oh your one of those people

obtuse marsh
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one that likes balance?

shrewd zephyr
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the class is called Recon
not Marksman

obtuse marsh
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You know what the M in DMR means right?

shrewd zephyr
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DMRs aren't op at all if they were you would see everyone using them

obtuse marsh
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Let them recon or snipe, but if you start giving them mid-range weapons you're going to be treading on other classes toes.

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DMR's I'm not the most fussed about, but definitely no BRs, ARs or carbines.

shrewd zephyr
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like how every class already doesn't do that with each other

obtuse marsh
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I know and it's bad

shrewd zephyr
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BRs are basically DMRs with less range hell the Mk. 20 in my opinion is a better SCAR-H

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the only one i feel that doesn't match recon really is the Fal it has to fast of a fire rate

obtuse marsh
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Still unsure why the fuck the G3 is a DMR

shrewd zephyr
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agree

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they fixing that though

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tbh I'd like it to actually get a drum mag and a bipod because that was a common thing to see on G3s

obtuse marsh
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it's an LSW at that point

shrewd zephyr
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actually was thinking of making a suggestion thread for some of the battle rifles to have drum mags only on support

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and maybe assault because in my opinion i think assault should be a bit of every class

terse shale
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🧠 Yooo that'd be interesting!

Shared platforms, unique attachments!

G3 with a drum & bipod for support
G3 with a quick mag for assault/engi/medic
G3 with long scopes and semi-auto only for sniper.

Kind of sliding out of recon-focused feedback, but it'd be neat to see certain "chassis" being shared, but still made unique through attachments, to prevent this "stepping on each other's feet" in terms of identity.

shrewd zephyr
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actually ya that a good idea

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so all classes can share some guns but they will still have a uniqueness about it

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i was just thinking about support

terse shale
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Fellow Support main? 🤭

lethal hawk
terse shale
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Agreed!

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I was thinking of that when brainstorming that little top-of-the-head list

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Would make sense for them as sneaky sneaks to have the quiet stuff too, at least on the shared chassis being discussed!

I wouldn't want to remove suppressors from non-shared weapons though. Assaults can be sneaky-ish with suppressed SMGs and ARs, no need to make suppressors as a whole Recon-only.

I'd just make the "shared chassis" weapons more unique to each classes is all.

astral condor
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Binoculars should have at least an optical rangefinder like Squad, or a digital one like the attachment for the guns. It would benefit Recon especially but also Engineer for the RPG shots.

It's very hard to judge the distances without a rangefinder; the map doesn't have a visible scale or landmarks, the only UI element that can show the distance is a close control point, the stylized graphics makes it hard to guess on gut feeling.

feral thistle
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Which is why I will never stop beating the drum to add it

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To recon*

paper dove
plain parcel
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Big update and upgrade. Thanks Oki peepoPrayHalo

abstract solstice
plain parcel
fallow surge
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I was gonna say…

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That it’s a bit odd for only medium scopes…

lethal hawk
astral condor
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Being a Recon

lethal hawk
astral condor
lethal hawk
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"You get to use suppressors" would be the one perk of picking that class if you're going to use anything other than a sniper rifle

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They also have a reduced bandage count

astral condor
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I don't know why you're trying to boost the pick rate of recon, as it has very little teamwork value.

I'd add suppressed SMGs and similar short weapons like the AS VAL for short range capabilities to Recon, and that's it. No need to penalize the other classes for no reason.

lethal hawk
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What value does assault have? And since when does anybody care about teamwork in this game?

astral condor
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Assault is supposed to be the assault specialist. Medic would be the other class needed on the frontline.

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(honestly I'd rather fuse the two classes because they overlap and Medic is better, but that's another discussion)

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Recon should be the long range and intel specialist

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Being a recon

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Another thing to benefit Recon: copying Squad, high damage headshots should reduce the bleed out timer of enemies, making them harder to revive.

abstract solstice
ivory anchor
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Recon has nothing for itself, except "I can use sniper" Aqua_Sad

terse shale
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I mean.. It's got zip lines/grapple hook, a recon drone (which is underrated as hell if you ask me!) and I think they should have adv. binos too?

Plenty of reconnaissance tools to use aside from bolt action with a beeg scope

feral thistle
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They’re an unfinished tool

ivory anchor
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binos useless currently. Drone is meme mine.

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What's the point of having binos, if you can have a 40x scope

feral thistle
ivory anchor
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Recon is the only class without any "special" thing like Stats boost/Heal itself/Can put certain construction or insta build/etc/Get more EXP against vehicles.

feral thistle
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New spotting system will make em better

ivory anchor
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I hope they made a "spotting = Exp" or something along the lines.

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Because if it's another mechanic with no reward on it :c

feral thistle
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Of being spotted

terse shale
# feral thistle They’re an unfinished tool

Barely did, saw they're unfinished, put them back on the shelf/ignored them since, but it's still a tool that the class should have, logically. Give them more ways to, well... recon lol

feral thistle
lethal hawk
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so how the hell does spotting work now

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middle mouse doesnt do shit anymore

terse shale
# ivory anchor all that except drone on Assault

Classes stepping on eachother's foot is def. an issue. Assault's fast enough zooming around already I'd yoink the grapple from it altogether. Would make them miss it, and recons could be seen at the front putting some zips up flanks and such.

binos useless currently.
Sadly true 😔

Drone is meme mine.
I disagree, I think meme droning is kind of stupid. It should be a niche thing, not the main use for it.

When it's 3-400m up in the sky and no one looks up to shoot it down, the sheer amount of INFO you can give your squad mates is seriously staggering.

Snipers, flankers, vehicle movement, fortifications, the list goes on, the amount of intel and recon you can get with it is unparallelled (which is why I was thinking of giving the TL idea I put in #1138399228390027305 a wider-range one. It's goated for team-play and coordination.)

What's the point of having binos, if you can have a 40x scope
Gonna echo SaberOne's reply to you on that one, they should have no glint and variable/smooth zooming, and maybe they'd make marks on stuff last longer?

Just trying to think of a way to make them do something right now, with the currently available things in the game. While I'd love to get SOFLAM and guided rockets a-la Battlefield.. they'd have to code all that stuff in... so extended mark duration is the best I can think of on-the-fly. Like 1 minute if marking enemy recons and vehicles using the binos. A solid amount of time, not just "it lasts 10 seconds instead of 5". Those things are supposed to be a d v a n c e d, give em' some oomph!

ivory anchor
terse shale
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I'll shamelessly rip off the idea of "proximity sensors"?

It's player made-ish, but could just be.. a unique gadget that spots stuff? Or a unique grenade that does like the BFBC2 sensor balls.

unreal pond
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I gotta admit, I'm hating not having glint when fighting snipers

ripe oak
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:x learn and adjust

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worst case you die once before you know their exact location

unreal pond
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It's more that I never see glint at all now compared to before, it might just be too small is all

ivory anchor
unreal pond
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it's a good change for sure, I just don't feel like it's actually changed anything with snipers other than me not being able to see glint at all now admist the chaos of group fights

ripe oak
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i mean thats a big change ive seen quite a lot of glints personally when i was trying it out

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i dont feel as dummy exposed as i thought i would with adding glints to mediums

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if they applied this as it is right now to long range scopes it probably would be okay?

deep coral
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Long range scopes are the same glint and med range scopes had it added to them, previously they had none

ripe oak
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tbh with the lack of glint that makes sniper finally as good as medic in its on unique way so im fine with it barely glinting too

deep coral
ripe oak
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no

paper dove
shrewd zephyr
paper iron
ivory anchor
fallow surge
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Agreed, the spot mechanic is super fun, but still inconsistent with the new squad menu especially.

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Sometimes I look at a guy straight in my cross hair, spamming the ping button but nothing happens. Then I see that I repeatedly spotted the guy behind some leaves that I didn’t even see at the edge of my scope

ivory anchor
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yeah

plain ice
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Thoughts:
You've created mechanics for sniper rifles that make them completely ineffective at close to medium range. It's a flip-flop, not a shot.
So-so you give players the option to put a side sight on these rifles. But it's pointless. These sights won't help you.
Honestly, I don't see any problem with sniper rifles working properly and their damage FALLING rather than increasing with distance so they can do significant damage to players.
They are sniper rifles, they should work that way. And there are no problems with this in other games.

fallow surge
plain parcel
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Impossible!

edgy jay
astral condor
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Still, one headshot kills regardless.

plain ice
# astral condor Still, one headshot kills regardless.

I spent a certain amount of time on the SSG until I got the SV-98. Then spent a certain amount of time with it.
In my opinion, it's horrible. I try to aim for the head whenever possible, but apparently the bullet hits anywhere anyway.
Yes, 1-shot kills do happen, but very rarely.

Using a bolt-action rifle as a shotgun is rare. You need a lot of experience for that. And in the end automatic rifles and SMGs will fire more bullets at you if you miss.

astral condor
plain ice
astral condor
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Hitting people moving erratically or fast horizontally is certainly increasingly challenging with range. But oftentimes as a sniper you'll pick targets that are moving slowly or that are holding position.

plain ice
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A little bit of life gameplay as a scout. I really hate these things.
Yeah, they're tall. But those screws just piss me off. It seems like I'm just going to throw up because of the sight of them sooner or later.

But that's not the point. I shoot from one of these windmills to another windmill with a SV-98 using a PTR-40 Hunter. And... Nothing!

image.png
abstract solstice
# plain ice A little bit of life gameplay as a scout. I really hate these things. Yeah, they...

the slower the velocity of the bullet, the more sensitive the shot is in how youve zeroed the shot for the range youre shooting as well as how accurate your shot is, and the effect increases with distance as well. SV and SSG are relatively low-velocity rifles, and thus both your zero and your aim have to be up to snuff, or youll miss quite often.
another bit of advice; dont use the high-magnification scope if you arent even hitting your shots reliably. they just make it harder to see where your shot is landing as how its arcing. use an 8x and get used to the rifle itself first

plain ice
abstract solstice
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and im pretty sure they all also will kill 100% of the time with a headshot at any range except against exo helmets, where the M200 does legitimately stand out among the crowd

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so generally, youre either getting a 1-shot kill with a headshot, or a 2-3 shot kill for limb and body shots with all of the rifles except for the SSG, which i think might technically be capable of needing 4 shots to down exo armour of you are unlucky enough to get a shot to the helmet and 2 shots to the body armour before getting a 4th shot on target (someone check my math on that, i dont wanna do it myself)

plain ice
abstract solstice
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the exo helmet is the only helmet capable of preventing a headshot kill with a sniper if the helmet gets hit. all other helmets dont block enough damage to prevent the 1-shot headshot

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(with, of course, the exception of the M200 because "balancing")

plain dirge
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they changed the barrels to not increase damage

abstract solstice
#

did it need ranger to get that 1-shot on exo? m200 is one of my least used SR's, so ive always just assumed it did it with or without ranger

ripe oak
abstract solstice
#

ah. well good that it only has a massive velocity and sizeable damage advantage over the other SRs now. balanced

shrewd zephyr
abstract solstice
astral condor
abstract solstice
#

theoretically

#

unfortunately, in reality the only real downside to the M200 is the run speed. kick isnt anywhere near enough to be an actual downside over the other rifles, and the bolt speed is a deception at best lol

#

hahaha. glint hiding still hasnt been fixed

plain parcel
#

And with M200 you can still just take out your secondary and you won't be that much slower

feral thistle
#

Its one of the reasons why the deagle is not the greatest. Lowers your run speed just by equipping it (not even holding it)

abstract solstice
plain parcel
feral thistle
#

I really like what #dev-wip is saying. You get a few good shots as recon before your hide is burned, and the pinging is gonna hopefully be fixed

abstract solstice
#

eh. tracers already did that. trails are just gonna make it so that people picking their fucking noses will still be able to find you

shrewd zephyr
#

omg we got halo sniper smoke trails

deep coral
#

I like that recon spots last longer

#

But can we make the spot bonus more than 50 points?

edgy jay
# deep coral I like that recon spots last longer

yes, and then bring back the original ping system, then make 3d spotting exclusive for binoculars and drone.
recon and leader would then have a much more significantly unique and rewarding role while taking away what is arguably a chore and a nightmare to balance for other classes to have.

deep coral
#

Just not worth to do that otherwise

edgy jay
deep coral
#

Even the 8 second recon pings are only sometimes useful to your team and I only ping people either while I rechamber or if I know they're close to teammates and I can't kill them all

#

Was focusing on trying out pinging last night and it does feel good when the information you gave your teammate gets them the kill

#

But if I had to pull out binoculars to ping I would not be doing it

#

And I see very few other people pinging

edgy jay
# deep coral But if I had to pull out binoculars to ping I would not be doing it

then would it be more convenient if 3d spotting was an exclusive feature applied for binoculars, drones, and recon scopes (medium and long range)?
i personally think it would be fair for everyone if there were a commitment factor when player wants to engage with 3d spotting as a recon.
if you have your sniper equipped, that should be exclusively for long range kills while binoculars and drone would be for helping your team.

deep coral
#

Why make it arbitrarily harder for recon to recon?

#

I don't see the benefit

#

Oh I missed in your post that you included scopes as things that could 3d spot

#

I do think the recon spots lasting twice as long is a big incentive to spot specifically on recon

#

One 127v127 match I remember well last night I was doing a lot of spotting (Kodiak Invasion game where I was a defender, positioned across the river watching enemies move on C), I would say I personally placed half the spots I saw in the match

#

Out of 127 people on the team

#

People dont engage with the system much anyway, and its not that powerful, so I don't think further restrictions are necessary

#

Possibly that'll change as people get more used to it

deep coral
plain ice
#

Just thoughts.
Don't take them too seriously.
A scout with a Kirk/Sledgehammer looks like a ridiculous concept.
I would actually give the scout a weapon with an integrated silencer like the AS-Val and Honey Badger. I think it suits this class more than others.

abstract solstice
#

man, ive been pushing for AS Val being a recon-only weapon for ages. Its a match made in heaven

#

and hell, give recon reduced footstep audio radius when walking, crouched, and prone if the val is equipped on the loadout :3

deep coral
#

Or just in general

abstract solstice
#

people would complain if sniper rifles got it too, if for no other reason than to complain.

though it would certainly help sniper survivability when they get inevitably bum-rushed by 12 SMGs once bullet trails go live

plain ice
abstract solstice
#

eh, the new distance for grass culling sorta makes the ghillie stuff work the opposite it usually would; makes your character "blob" bigger and easier to see against the grass-less terrain. still not super thrilled about that change

plain ice
abstract solstice
#

become the hill

fallow surge
#

just dig a hole

plain ice
lethal hawk
plain ice
#

This is a problem with all weapons, but until the excessive brightness and color palette are improved, you'll have a hard time parodying a sniper.

image.png
indigo ridge
#

Soooo bullet tracers on snipers is going to ruin playing recon.

#

I feel as if there are already plenty of downsides in playing recon that you have to be careful about and now to add a bullet tracer on your shot just is making it harder to even play.

paper iron
#

The bigger problem is not alerting the enemy frontline, is alerting the other snipers

#

An AR can barely kill you at 500m

#

Even 200m is very unlikely to happen

#

But another sniper could easily see the tracer

#

If the tracer only shows for people close to the tracer, it is less worse

#

Because you are not gonna alert a random sniper far away from where you shot

#

That's worse than glint

lethal hawk
#

Agreed

ivory anchor
lethal hawk
azure flare
#

Recon mains

#

with the upcoming bullet trail changes

#

what do you reckon would be appropriate for suppressed recon rifles

lethal hawk
feral thistle
#

The lack of muzzle flash and sound suppression is already pretty good in my eyes

abstract solstice
#

Probably because your eyes haven't seen the trails in-game yet

feral thistle
#

My general feeling is that a sniper, when working with a team, can exert zone control and pressure on another force via the vapor trails. They act as a supressing force and teamates can maneuver and trap the recons target. The buff via glare makes longer range scopes viable so even if you announce your position it’ll take a second or third shot for enemies to get solid counter fire on you. Overall I like the concept

#

It impedes recon from being able to lone wolf, but overall I believe it’ll help a recon contribute to teamwork

abstract solstice
#

with the exception of when playing with very patient friends, BBR isnt a game that rewards squad-work for snipers. it either puts them way too close to enemies to be genuinely effective, or puts the other squad members way too far to be effective. this is doubly true due to BBRs huge differences in player speed based on loadout. try to force snipers out of the lone-wolf role, and you just hurt the class outright. snipers dont have the firepower to reliably defend themselves even at 50m, they dont have the run-speed to keep up with the teammates who can defend them at that range, and now its going to be even easier for people to find snipers and sneak around into that "snipers are fucked" range when its already pretty damn easy to do so. its just a classic case of overnerfing, largely because Oki isnt even letting the previous nerf take root before doing more nerfing. its silly

feral thistle
#

But you havent even seen the update yet. The pinging and pressure of a sniper having you in their scope is how recon works in the team. I’ve done really well in the past when I had a team player recon.
The update allows snipers to get the first volley (1HK capable) and maneuver away or keep up the fire and in turn draw aggro and fire. The only nerf is to the map corner gamer. Even then, the scope change puts long scopes back on the table finally

ripe oak
#

the fantasy of it is really nice and im here for it but at the same time bbr isnt a game that makes people afraid of snipers even when people know a sniper is aiming at them they will choose to run out of cover and away or even push them / throw out suppressing shots i can only see that getting worse

feral thistle
#

Not a fantasy, its just what happens when you use voip with a semi decent team.

deep coral
#

Also sometimes you get a squad mate who spawns in as support or medic to help

#

But honestly all my best sniper games have been with several friends also sniping with me

#

Then you don't lose your spot when someone counter snipes you once

abstract solstice
# deep coral Also sometimes you get a squad mate who spawns in as support or medic to help

in all my 800 hours, i can count on one hand the number of times ive had a random squadmate spawn on me as medic or support with the express purpose of medicing/supporting me. more commonly, youll have people spawn on you and give you ammo or heals before running off, but theyre still ultimately just using me as a human spawn beacon, and thats about as loose an interpretation of "teamwork" as you can get

#

though i do admit you have a point with the "all snipers squad" thing. but i get the feeling thats gonna be an extinct species of squad the moment bullet trails hit the game. multiple bullet trails is just about the only thing worse than just your bullet trail, and having someone even sorta close to you who is also sniping will put you at significantly greater risk than if it were just one of you on your own

deep coral
#

We will see about the trails, I still need to see how it plays. You could make the same argument about med range glint, yet it had little effect on us.

abstract solstice
#

no, trails and glint are 100% not comparable in that way. glint is only for people who are looking at you and who you are also aiming at. trails will be visible not only to people you arent aiming or shooting at (for instance someone way off to your left or right), but also will be visible to people who might not even be facing you (i.e. people you are shooting over or well past, as well as people in elevated positions beyond where you are shooting)

deep coral
#

I mean yeah it's obviously going to be worse but will it be so much worse that sniping as a group is no longer viable? Probably not

feral thistle
#

I kinda feel like it’d be the opposite. The more lines you have across a battlefield the more chaotic

deep coral
#

Yeah also if you're already firing from a spot then there are already lines. Does it matter if it's just yours or several people?

#

We will have to see

paper dove
#

Lighthouse class update

scarlet hemlock
#

With all these new updates to sniping I’m surprised you guys are even keeping the class at this point because now sniping literally has no purpose. Every time you shoot a round a laserbeam is going to go across the map to show everyone where you shot from. Are you serious? Just get rid of the class it’s obvious you hate sniping in this game.

crisp sail
#

...honestly not sure how to differentiate actual concerns over coping and sneeding at this point

gentle cloud
#

wdym coping and sneeding?

#

the only thing the class has gotten has been a nerf in its ability to hide

#

you know the thing it needs to stay alive

plain parcel
#

Changes to glint and footsteps are great, but the trail? Yeah it's not a bad, it's straight up awful change after playing with it for a while

whole notch
#

people complained about snipers being far off in the distance and because of this there are going to be even more. they killed the short/medium range recon. might as well get the m200 and sit 1000 + meters back

lapis warren
pliant swift
#

The bullet trail update is disappointing. The enjoyment of a sniper class, for me, is the ability to sneak around the maps, find great hiding spots, and patiently wait to pick off enemies. By adding the bullet trail to the game it seems very unlikely that I can now safely play at a medium/short range distance and stay relatively hidden. I feel forced into playing very long distances (1k+) to avoid SMG fire and easily being picked off. There are some maps that are just going to feel awful playing recon. If that was your goal then good job I guess.

I'm sure this was driven by people complaining about snipers but now you'll have an even worse chance of a killing them because they are on the edges of the map. I'd also like to add that snipers are usually counter sniping each other and even though we obviously pick off a lot of infantry if both teams have adequate snipers we're usually keeping each other at bay. I've never had a game where I can just sit out in the open picking people off for 30 minutes, there is always a counter sniper out there. Anyways, just wanted to voice that a huge enjoyment of the game for me is gone.

scarlet hemlock
#

Sniping was my main thing in the game. So the game has been ruined for me personally, but I’m sure other people probably feel the same way

lone cedar
#

Love the changes
medium scope with no glint was crazy, insane that people think they should be able to play sniper elite in the back lines with no way to tell where they are
TFW recon class is made to be more about recon and less about playing cookie clicker

lethal hawk
#

I'll say that trails + drone makes it way too easy to spot people now. The trail really should only show up for people in the same cone of glint visibility.

lone cedar
scarlet hemlock
#

With this game, graphics and blocky textures it is so easy to see people moving around on the maps. Easier than other massive multiplayer shooter. And last time I checked, you should be able to play the game the way you wanna play it. Not because someone’s butt hurt over sniping.

lone cedar
#

last time i checked, you're still fully able to play a sniper
seems people are just butthurt they have to deal with some glint

scarlet hemlock
#

I didn’t mind the glint. It’s the bullet Trail, where they cross the line. The whole point of sniping is long-distance engagements. Now it doesn’t matter how far away you are when 1000 m away, you see a bullet trail, knowing exactly where it came from.

#

But the only reason these changes are implemented in the game is because enough people complained about sniping that was my point.

lone cedar
#

I agree that the bullet trail is obnoxious, it seems like it was added because it looks cool and shows you that you're being sniped at.

#

but it couldve been done better

paper dove
#

it does look cool

#

but it needs to be toned down

ivory anchor
#

Trail need to be toned down for under 200m. Over that. I think it's fine.

#

Even under 200m. It's pretty fine as long as you don't miss your shots and move often.

azure flare
#

ignore title but big need for some recon guns

empty pewter
#

Stop it with the bloody distance gauging. The trail needs to go, end of discussion. The gameplay style is basically ruined by this change. Flank sniping is gone, and sniping at everything below 400m is just asking for trouble. Warzones aer caotic, fire comes from everywhere. Duck down or get shot.

lethal hawk
shrewd zephyr
#

I'm gonna be honest play recon now feels 10x easier running around with a 6x instead of a 4x getting about 50 kills a game and being within 50m-100m of objects
most people ether don't see the trail or don't care about it the only problems I've run into is running to close to enemies and getting shitted on but that happened before the smoke trail update anyway

#

the biggest difference is i can actually fight back against people using med scopes sitting in the hills sniper 300m out

empty pewter
whole notch
# scarlet hemlock I didn’t mind the glint. It’s the bullet Trail, where they cross the line. The w...

people complain about the recon class in every single FPS game i have played going back at least a decade. when im not playing recon and i die to one its usually because i stood still too long in a window/doorway/rooftop. people will literally stand still out in the open and spam their gun and wonder how a recon killed them? people need to learn to position themselves better. if they want to nerf recons just drop the bullet velocity 200-300m per second on say the L96, Rem 700, and M200

lone cedar
#

Funny seeing recons saying that you died to sniper because you stood still out in the open when 90% of the time you die as a recon is because you got sniped by another recon because you were standing still, out in the open.
People should take their own advice

#

Recon is still almost entirely immune to 70% of players
All of your deaths come from other snipers and it’s so bizarre
It’s like an smg user saying smgs are weak because they are always dying to smgs

shrewd zephyr
lethal hawk
shrewd zephyr
#

because rn I've felt more helped then hurt buy this update
my games have gone up in kills while playing recon with sniper
medium scope sniper rifles aren't a bitch to deal with and you aren't forced to play with them
and bad recon players that sit in one place and shoot 5 shots at one guy gets punished for there bad play instead of free kills because it was really hard to notice sniper shooting at you unlike every full auto gun while a good play style is exactly the same because you still 1 shot everything and if you miss a shot amd the person actually notices you just reposition and that like i said if they notice the shot most people seems like they don't notice or care

empty pewter
# shrewd zephyr because rn I've felt more helped then hurt buy this update my games have gone u...

There is no such thing as a free kill, simply because no one wants to die and everybody wants kills. It is not hard to notice the sniper sub 500m, without bullet trails. You don't one shot everything, supports don't die. Shooting 5 shots in a single spot is not bad gameplay bro, but that depends on your distance of engagement. And you are speaking as if only the player you shoot at can see the trail. Usually, if shooting in at an objective, at least 5 people can see that bullet trail.

#

The dev team should release statistics from every patch. Be transparent with the decision making. Be accountable and get rid of personal biases.

shrewd zephyr
#

and if your sniping and missing 5 shots on one dude its a bad play my guy

#

and guess what snipers with medium scopes and no glint and smoke trail were free kills amd even with the glint they were still free kills because it was hard as fuck to notice people shooting you when they were using a sniper

shrewd zephyr
#

if your trying to empty a whole mag out the same window of course its gonna get you killed

#

just like if you were using an ar/lmg/smg and shooting 4 or 5 burst out of the same window

#

people will notice

empty pewter
empty pewter
empty pewter
empty pewter
deep coral
#

Played sniper for like 3-4 hours last night and still did very well

#

I really like the new sniper bullet noise when I flies past you

#

The trails didn't seem like that big of a problem

#

I had multiple times where I got 10-20 kills without switching spots

#

Also had multiple times where I sniped someone and the person standing right next to them went for the res like, do you not see the trail that ended in your friend's head?

shrewd zephyr
deep coral
#

I think it hurts new snipers the most, is a big part of the issue

#

You can no longer peek out a random window facing their whole team and get a few kills

#

You have to get into a good spot, check all your angles, set up cover in the direction that shots from enemy snipers will come from, and then start firing

#

Which is hard enough by itself, and then you put in all that potentially several minutes of work only to lose the first sniper duel

#

I'm sure that feels awful

shrewd zephyr
#

you can do that or you can reposition every few shots

#

and idk where someone said snipers don't reposition that much

ya they do because armies normally consider them a really big threat and so are constantly on the look out for them and if a sniper stays in one position to long they face MG fire, artillery, or other snipers

deep coral
#

Yeah I do a mix of both but would much rather set up a really good spot if I can find one

abstract solstice
#

also important, IMO, to mention that thats exactly the kind of sniper gameplay that non-snipers always seem to bitch and moan about; "set-up-camp-and-snipe" sniping. I personally think that BBR has always left very little room for snipers to do anything other than that with how absurdly incapable most sidearms are in any sort of engagement, but Im also getting the impression that the bullet trails were a rather unnecessary addition. I haven't played with them yet, but from what i've read here they havent actually done a whole lot in terms of gameplay, either positive or negative, in regards to camp sniping. Has anyone tried aggressive/CQC (relative to snipers) with the trails yet? I saw concerns before the update that these trails would have an unfair effect on CQC sniping, and as an SSG69 main, CQC sniping has become pretty much the only sniping I can enjoy anymore after the mid-range scope glint update, so I'd be rather distraught if the trails have made CQC sniping unviable

shrewd zephyr
abstract solstice
#

good to hear!

shrewd zephyr
#

basically just move a bit more and it should be a-ok

#

from my experience

#

if you wanna camp at cqb you'll get dunked on but that happened before anyway

deep coral
#

When I say "find a good spot" I mean pushed up as far as possible and off to the side on a hard flank where I can shoot into the side of the frontline

empty pewter
#

After having a rather good discussion about it on another thread, ⁠The sniper changes are actually…, I can now make a list of suggestions that can potentially target the issues the devs @odd oak want to tackle without pointing 3 second smoke arrows straight to snipers faces, or broadcasting your position with wide angle scope glint.

-Limit the number of players per class. Maybe 3 or 4 players max per class per squad could deter excessive sniping, and force players to play more OBJ or teamplay.

Remove bullet trails, or make them last less than 0.5 seconds. It should be a warning, at MOST. I still think they should be removed entirely.

Decrease DMR and Bolt action rifle bullet speeds to more IRL values, and adjust upwards from there. It would effectively make sniping at longer ranges harder, and push people to snipe up to where they feel comfortable with their rifle's bullet speed. Don't do special gravity per rifle.

-Add functional, mil dotted scopes like you have for the RPGs to long range scopes. Current ones can be used, but they really aren't good.

-Tone down spotting through objects and smoke, and nerf the Drone spotting time to 6 seconds max.

Give us tactical slots to fill depending on the type of armor/carrier, to mix and match smokes, and frags. It wont be one or the other (Unless single slot gear) and we get to mix and match smoke colors or frags and smokes.

Probably increase effective range of ARs and LMGs, but my view here iis way more limited.

deep coral
#

Limiting number of each class per squad is bad and not fun

shrewd zephyr
#

bru stop pinging the mods/devs that's rude af

empty pewter
empty pewter
deep coral
#

People want to play a class for one of many reasons, and then they can't because of the restriction and they have to swap squads

#

With respect to recon in particular, it's a class that benefits highly from having your whole squad stack recons

#

I've had like 5 or 6 recons in a squad and it's really fun and works great

#

None of these reasons I have given are like "it would ruin the game" but I dont see much benefit and I do see the costs, so I'm against it

astral condor
empty pewter
#

Mhmm the man himself doesnt seem to mind terribly, and I am not spamming him either.

#

I did apologize tho

astral condor
#

For a quite sandboxy game, limiting the number of role slots would not produce any benefit but only frustration, and people would make smaller squads or solo ones to circumvent that.

Bullet trails are fine, I've played Recon a bunch and it doesn't really matter, it draws more attention if you keep camping in the same spot for half the match. But a good Sniper would already rotate between spots regularly, while it makes the receiving end less frustrating and feels fairer, and less about getting hit from nowhere multiple times. The reduction of the glint in intensity and the angle of view, and the intensity based on distance with a reduction in close and very long ranges is also great, because half the server no longer spot you from a kilometer away just for existing and shoot the glint.

Bullet speed is fine, the rifles just need better balance and specializations.

Functional mil dots and ranging notches would be great, but we also need binoculars to not just be almost "decorative" but also rangefind, then we would be able to choose anything else than a rangefinder on the rifle.

Enough grenades and explosives in this game, and I'd rather not have another 5 keybinds.

AR and LMGs are not Recon?

empty pewter
deep coral
lethal hawk
# astral condor For a quite sandboxy game, limiting the number of role slots would not produce a...

The problem is that this game also isn't sandboxy due to it's strong focus on objectives and kills. It tries to catter to two very different groups of people that will never be simultaneously satisfied so it's no wonder it fails.

Modes like invasion where not having all possible bodies on the point quickly end the match don't dissuade me or other people from just picking sniper and ignoring the objective, because the game lets me do whatever I want. But at the same time you will see angry people in chat because people weren't playing the objective and we lost.

abstract solstice
# empty pewter How exactly?

squad-role limitations are one of the major reasons i have >800 hours on BBR and <50 hours on Squad. I prefer sniping on Squad vs BBR, as it feels more... impactful, both in the way it feels and the way it impacts the match as a whole, but i can rarely actually get Sniper/Marksman in Squad, so I almost never play it

empty pewter
#

there area many ways to skin a cat. I dont like how oki skinned the recon cat, but it is his game.

abstract solstice
#

it doesnt matter how you skin the cat if the cat never needed to be skinned in the first place. class-limitations are unnecessary, fullstop IMO

empty pewter
#

let try and come with better ideas

abstract solstice
lethal hawk
#

Even if they removed Recon I would grab Assault or Engi and hang back with a DMR

empty pewter
abstract solstice
#

i wouldnt care if he were as opaque as stone if he at least listened to the portion of the playerbase that any given change effects rather than listening to the inevitable dogpile the other 4 out of 5 classes will almost always lead to

empty pewter
lethal hawk
lethal hawk
empty pewter
lethal hawk
#

But they don't really know what to make of it, I guess

empty pewter
#

i would correlate that sooo well. If they can get class distribution on the map, and kill data like weapon, distance, location to OBJs from death, and even shot angles like Hunt showdown does, they could make very well informed decisions

#

better than "skill issue" at least.

#

even just kill data with killer loudout, weapon, and the victims loadout, class. weapon, and distance to killer and OBJ would be mind blowingly illuminating

lethal hawk
empty pewter
#

I know cause i work on predicting shit in the medicine field, and it aint easy even with millions of dollars spent on it

#

and hundreds working on it. But a simple, clean, descriptive data analysis and some relevant comparison will probably help them more than shouting in discord and polling players in discord.

lethal hawk
lethal hawk
empty pewter
#

even twitch stuff and the free week end did not help retention

lethal hawk
empty pewter
#

or mayube a few thousand

#

but certainly not the 1.8 million sales in 2 weeks.

#

with the current playerbase sitting at 8-9k, that is worrisome.

lethal hawk
empty pewter
#

If they ever hit 1.0, chances are many will return to see a finished product, and hopefully stay.

empty pewter
lethal hawk
#

Yup, certainly looks less than encouraging for its longevity

abstract solstice
#

ngl, i think oki needs to develope some amount of consistency in his dev skills before trying any sort of data-driven approach. that and learn what a fucking hotfix is

#

players not having access to twitch drops immediately following a massive twitch drop campaign for the game, including US ARMY-SPONSORED drops is not a good look

#

and he just tends to lump much needed fixes in with the next content update. which usually means waiting a long-ass time for basic fixes to core functionality (remember when Support ammo supply was broken for like, 2 weeks?)

lethal hawk
#

The other day he made a quick stream showing a modified client to test the sound changes in an actual live game so it definitely doesn't look like he isn't comfortable rapidly implementing changes

astral condor
abstract solstice
#

Providing hotfixes for broken shit as and when needed would hardly result in spammed updates

#

And having, for example, all my twitch drops be broken for the foreseeable future is arguably as if not more frustrating

tropic lotus
#

Bullet trails have nerfed recon into the ground. The glint on medium range scopes would've been more than enough, even though I personally loathe glint as a concept.

#

I have almost 100 hours in this game, not all recon, but probably half as recon. And no matter how I try to adapt my playstyle now, it is simply unfun because I shoot once and I am immediately spammed by every single player on the enemy team. The playstyle I enjoyed of being a sneaky mid/close range sniper is just not possible anymore and I'm genuinely just considering giving up on the game.

#

The last 3 times I tried to play, I quit after a few minutes. I know I'm not the only one. It's just not the same game anymore. Crazy how a seemingly small change can completely destroy certain playstyles.

lethal hawk
tropic lotus
#

so whack

abstract solstice
#

whats doubly frustrating is how lop-sided the complaints against Recon is. Any gun with a TTK around or under about 0.200s (0.200s = a player with a faster than average reaction time) will often given the unfortunate victim a not-significantly-different experience to just getting one-shot; both equally give zero chance to fight back. yet for some reason complaints about dying to a 0.150s TTK SMG are brushed aside with a "skill issue lolol" while complaints about SR one-shots are perhaps the biggest circle-jerk on this discord server, thus one is treated as THE meta of BBR and the other is nerfed into the ground. And because of how haphazardly Oki does his nerfing, the resulting nerfs have a lot of collateral damage; for instance, the SSG69 was already in dire need of some sort of buff, but now it has to deal with these very significant nerfs because its being lumped into the same category as the likes of the M200 and L96.

#

to borrow the same argument i see often used by movement players when defending the game's hyper-active movement; "if you dont play recon, dont try to take recon's pie from those who do"

#

and since ive already stuck my neck out onto the chopping block, ill throw this into the mix; stop trying to nerf sniper rifles into the same niche and role that DMRs already occupy. I think adding glint to medium scopes and throwing the trails on top was a cheap, cop-out way of nerfing SRs. I would have rather seen much lower RoF, lower run speed, and slower reloads across the category, to exaggerate the difference between SRs and DMRs. Reduce the amount of overlap that certain sniper rifles have over DMRs, and force players into making a distinct choice between "High RoF, multi-target engagement" DMRs and "Low RoF, single-target executioners" SRs, with the sniper rifle's critical weakness being its inability to outrun all but the very slowest players (i.e. easy targets once found)

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its always been DMRs that are highly capable of wiping out player after player after player, in quick succession at a huge variety of ranges. That was never something the average player could reliably do with a sniper rifle

IMO, sniper rifles should be the precision scalpel of Recon's arsenal, incapable of wiping out an entire squad capturing an Obj, but instead cleaning up lone players trying to sneak around and solo-cap, with the skilled snipers being able to deal with 2-person groups under the right circumstances. anything more than 4 decent players in a group, and a single sniper rifle wouldnt be able to do much more than be a nuisance to them

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essay over, you all may now burn me at the stake

unreal pond
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tldr plz

abstract solstice
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Never ❤️

abstract solstice
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(also, its like 3 or 4 different points of argument that i went through. theres not a singular TL;DR that would cover them all, so just read them individually lol)

astral fox
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idgaf about enemy recons

unreal pond
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TBH I haven't touched the game since the 2nd spotting patch, seems like stuff's a little wack atm, so nows the time to get your arguments in while I'm taking a break 😎

abstract solstice
unreal pond
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I always put a TLDR smh, I care about my "readers"

abstract solstice
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i care about my readers too.

youre just the exception

deep coral
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Idk what the right channel for this is but I would've much preferred a "play with the same squad again" option over a "recon squad" option

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Tho it will be interesting to see

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This is definitely a buff to Recon

gentle cloud
deep coral
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But also having 7 other snipers to spawn on is a buff

abstract solstice
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im not sure id personally call it a buff, since it adds nothing to the game or Class that you couldnt already accomplish through various other means. to the contrary, it looks to me like oki is trying to straight up isolate us now lol

ripe oak
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i can see the future good recons will join the obj based squad do obj things and still get kicked kekw

abstract solstice
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welcome to FPS games, where the majority of people are so unbelievably self-important that they lose their mind when people play a different playstyle than they do

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much less GASP! a different Class

deep coral
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Sure you could make a squad with friends and all play recon

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And when I do that with my friends we destroy and all do super well

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So it's definitely a buff

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If it allows you to reliably do better it's a buff

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Stacking a squad with recons is by far the best way to play recon

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Dunno how people seem to not understand that tbh

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All of the "I can't succeed as this class anymore" complaints come from people trying to lone wolf

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And yeah that's fair the class got hugely overkill nerfs, but still if you stack the squad with recons you can still do well

whole notch
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do love the stealth nerf to the recon now. can no longer call ammo crates but every other class can (didnt test medic). also what did they do to the audio this most recent update. everything sound muted except for the moment yuou get a kill/get killed i get a loud pop in my headphones

deep coral
whole notch
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yep, respawned with other class. test it for yourself

deep coral
whole notch
edgy jay
fallow surge
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An infinitely healing, infinitely resupplying sniper that’s getting kills from inside his own beloved safe zone where the only thing that can contest him is another sniper… sounds pretty damn stupid

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And when it isn’t in the safe zone… it’s still pretty silly

astral fox
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i don't think thats the biggest problem with snipers but if you lay it all out it does seem pretty fucked

whole notch
# fallow surge An infinitely healing, infinitely resupplying sniper that’s getting kills from i...

i do agree that snipers (and tanks/LAV) should not be allowed to snipe/shoot from the safe zone but in reality how many kills you think the sniper in the safe zone is going to be getting? while yes another sniper is a great counter to a sniper so is a dmr user. its really not that hard to avoid even having to worry about being killed by a recon in the safe zone. most arent going to be hitting you from that distance as long as youre not standing still and the up close snipers in a building can easily be dealt with rpgs, tanks, using a rope to sneak up on them camping the roofs. honestly if people keep getting killed by a sniper from a good distance its most likely the person standing still exposed from a great angle for a period of time they deserve to die. People say that the recon class is overpowered while at the same time they are useless sniping in the deployment. which one is it?

plain parcel
# fallow surge An infinitely healing, infinitely resupplying sniper that’s getting kills from i...

And most of his engagements and kills come from other snipers sitting far away. And if he lands a shot on any other non stationary target? Shit, good shot.
Nobody cries about SMGs with TTK below 200ms (average reaction time for humans is 150-300)
But when a sniper lands one or two good longshots then suddenly it's an issue.
And if you die to them (over and over) with trails, glint and special whizz to help you then that's simply a skill issue.

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Spawn sniping will net at best 20-30 (rarely in 40 range) kills if you have enemy snipers coming back to the same spots (or really dumb infantry players)

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Still I think spawn camping shouldn't be allowed. Just a dumb way to play anyway

fallow surge
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(I do complain about <200ms TTK)

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(It is rather silly)

plain parcel
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Yet most people will still pick on snipers (didn't oki say he wants all classes to be on par with medic? clueless)

unreal pond
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I think the smoke trail is a fantastic visual thing that looks cool

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A slightly larger tracer to reflect the caliber would've been better for gameplay

feral thistle
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I am pro sniper trails. They look cool and add a atmosphere to the warzone. Thank you.

fallow surge
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make it replace glint damnit

abstract solstice
# fallow surge make it replace glint damnit

this. i personally would be fine with one OR the other. both is much too far. glint gives your position away before you shoot, trails give your position away when and after you shoot, and spotting will spread your cheeks inbetween the two. its ridiculous

cloud ridge
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They honestly need to remove 3d spoting though

fallow surge
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“You snipers” I’m a medic main sir

cloud ridge
fallow surge
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As someone who mostly plays against recons, I find both unnecessary fastparrot

cloud ridge
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As someone who plays recon as my second main class, I think it's fine

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People get way too fucking cozy sniping in one spot

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like move around bro

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cause some havoc while a squad/team frontline is rotating

abstract solstice
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thats what DMRs are for. the only reason any sane person would pick up a bolt action sniper rifle and not place themself as far away from the enemy as possible is because video games have distorted what people think sniping is

fallow surge
scarlet plank
cloud ridge
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Playing somewhat close to a frotline and positioning correctly is more beneficial and nets you way more kills.

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Also being angle conscious helps a ton. Be aware of what you're opening yourself up to when you peek something and cut off what you don't want to deal with if you can

tropic lotus
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Daily post about how trails are awful and ruin sniping. I miss when this game catered to more than 1 play style.

paper dove
lucid stirrup
gentle cloud
unreal pond
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The trail wouldn't be bad if it was more like a tracer

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Like a long tracer, or a quick smoke trail. Currently it just stands out too much for sure

viral brook
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It might just be a skill issue on my part, but half my deaths are probably to snipers/dmrs; however, a majority of the time, they hit me, i duck behind cover and heal and nothing happens and the snipers are useless

versed panther
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buff recon

heady jolt
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bruh

rich zinc
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More airdrones

brave violet
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Haven’t played in 5ish months med scopes still glint and still trails?

abstract solstice
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correct

astral condor
brave violet
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Cool checking back in another 5 months.

paper iron
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Tbh, after playing with sniper for a bit, the effects are bare minimum if you are killing your targets

bronze scarab
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Add a campfire and tent as a gadget for recon because camp is all these mofos do anyways.

analog edge
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IMO:

  1. C4 or AP mines drones should be removed (especially c4). you can kill easily tanks and other vehicles
  2. M200 and L96 are the only useful snipers (hopefully update will change this). The others are only for aesthetics. I suggest to make so that more dmg snipers rifle have less bullets speed and viceversa
  3. I feel like lots of matchs are full of snipers and dmrs. Servers need a better way to limit snipers. Actually, the limit on the servers is for squad, so if anyone wants to play as a sniper can just create a new squad.
  4. Also i think in some ways the recon neeeds more gadgets.
paper iron
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The 2 I understand game wise, but weapon wise it doesnt make any sense

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3 barely happens on LATAM servers tho, and it really depends on the map

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4 I agree, recon could have more specialized gadgets

bronze scarab
versed panther
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1 recon per squad

obtuse marsh
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What's stopping people making hundred of 1-man squads?

versed panther
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recon players are not smart enough to realise you can do that

gentle cloud
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Actual hamster behaviour

bronze scarab
astral condor
analog edge
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In my opinion nope, it's not skill issue. When you find a lobby full of ap drones you'll die first o less. I have a 2 k/d so i'm above the average player, also sometimes i play without headphones because i want to chill, and they got me pretty easily. What I'm trying to say is that is boring to die from drones that kills you while you are healing under a cover, but hey, there's people liking it so i'm just showcasing my opinion lol

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Also using bf4 as reference, which was one of my favourite games, it should be introduced a global sniper limit for both teams, not a team based one. The system the game is using now is better then nothing, but it can be improved (always imo)

astral condor
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Drones are easy to hear and shoot down

analog edge
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In a normal condition yes, but if you are shooting to other guys or you are healing behind a barrier it's hard to survive

astral condor
versed panther
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When i hear a drone while behind cover i just run for my life

analog edge
astral condor
analog edge
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yep they are but i quite like c4 lol

sleek token
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Yeah and people quite like drones with mines too

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It appears we are at an impasse

plain parcel
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if I use it and I like it, it's not OP, it's good and you are just bad
if you use it and you like it, it's OP, DeVs PlZ NeRf

Tale as old as time shrug

analog edge
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i do not currently use c4 often (i can send you screenshots of my games stats) but at least you have to approach the enemy to kill it

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I have many hours of play so i have some kills on everything, but as you can see i used more suicide c4 that c4 or mines lol

sleek token
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C4 is easily the strongest gadget in the game.

analog edge
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it is def broken and rpg too, but i was speaking about the recon experience

plain parcel
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RPG is debatable, it's strong but also there are a lot of issues with it