#Recon - Feedback

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

abstract solstice
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because the only other reasonable option is to bring its other stats up to L96 standards. and thats just boring

summer igloo
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m200 needs dmg nerfs

abstract solstice
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i think it just needs a major fire rate nerf

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and probably reload speed too

lethal hawk
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I love using it but yeah, it feels way to convenient in the handling department for the sheer firepower it also has.

abstract solstice
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something i just thought of, might as well see what others think; one perk of recon could be the ability to always have binocs, i.e. not have to use a gadget slot for them

fathom crescent
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One message removed from a suspended account.

abstract solstice
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aye. it just shoots way too fast for its damage per shot

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the bolt speed stats are total gibberish and mean nothing. try it out for yourself, you can shoot it really rather rapidly with Bolt E

ripe oak
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i dont know if its been suggested before but adding bonus points based on how fast the target you headshot was moving from sprinting up to headshots on passengers/drivers in moving vechicles would be a nice bump to recon's pretty slow exp gain compared to other classes

abstract solstice
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it also doesnt help how many objs are defensible from outside their zone, so a lot of kills dont get any of the XP for attacking a point (also means no squad points)

fathom crescent
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One message removed from a suspended account.

abstract solstice
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would probably just be more visible than the lone body itself. game has to cull both vegetation and shading at far ranges (even terrain far enough away)

shrewd zephyr
abstract solstice
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hey stop copying me

shrewd zephyr
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so you stop copying me

abstract solstice
fathom crescent
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One message removed from a suspended account.

abstract solstice
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i think thats for support pack, no? isnt the rank 200 hat the beret and headset?

fathom crescent
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One message removed from a suspended account.

fathom crescent
abstract solstice
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true

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but the cigar is the cooler one

shrewd zephyr
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i wish all classes had the net helmet

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it looks to cool

fathom crescent
shrewd zephyr
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also wished there was .50 bmg snipers that that 2 shot body 1 shot head and does a decent vehicle damage that has old lmg movement speed, low aim down sight speed, slow fire rate, and slow reload. would be funny :3

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could be funny and add the AK50

abstract solstice
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you ARE copying me!

shrewd zephyr
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no was trying to be funny and suggest adding the AK50

abstract solstice
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nahnah hecate

shrewd zephyr
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i don't see your post saying anything about the AK50

abstract solstice
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hecate is a .50bmg sniper that would 2 shot body 1shot head and deal a decent amount of damage to vehicles

feral thistle
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Everyone talking about glint. I just want a better spotting mechanic so ‘recon’ can actually ‘recon’. At the risk of sounding more like a suggestion than feedback, I’m gonna agree with Someone in the advanced binocs thread. They made a good point that recon putting players on the map for squadmates would be pretty helpful. We need some way for recon units to contribute to overall team mechanics past adding just another gun. Gathering and disseminating info would be most true to the name of a scout/recon role.

abstract solstice
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recon being able to relay info the squad leaders would be handy

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basically just throw them in with squad leaders in that voice comm channel

paper dove
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yeah a rework to spotting would be nice

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maybe allow players spotted by a recon drone to show on the map for a short period of time

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would make the drone actually useful for recon and not just suicide runs

astral fox
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Big agree with the drone spotting. Would also help if you could resupply it from an air dropped ammo crate, even if only once or twice.

I don't know how to fix the hill wookie problem, but at least you can give them more proactive gadget options that encourage them to be closer to the objectives

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Maybe give the binocs or drone spotting that works across squads and awards XP.

I also like the idea of truly silent sneaking for recon, maybe combine that with some sort of gadget that switches the allegiance of enemy mines and claymores so you could do some crazy sabotage runs

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Naturally you would have to be pretty close for something like that to work but the risk/reward would be there

feral thistle
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Idunno about up close, the class doesnt feel built for that. no armor/helmet options and no real cqc weapons.
Hill wookie can be fine if it can augment the rest of the squad with information. right now the best contribution snipers have is knocking down enemy snipers and tying up medics with reviving that one guy that keeps peeking the same corner.

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with a name like recon, it'd be cool to see the class play a more strategic role rather than a tactical, ya know?

abstract solstice
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give recon significantly quieter footsteps at all speeds, and give it AS Val and Honey Badger. Let it be of some use as close-recon

gentle cloud
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Even with people in my squad the spotting being like it is means I still have to use voice to tell them if the enemy is still at the ping or not

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I can't even imagine how somebody would communicate without voice

gentle cloud
fallow surge
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Recon needs something to actually fit their name in forms of utility. Right now they’re “Man with Sniper” and they’re Drone is mostly just used as an explosive RC Car.

unreal pond
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Mhmm

fallow surge
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AHEM give them the ability to ping live locations of enemies they spot, for 10s, aaaand thank you.

abstract solstice
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pachi pachi

unreal pond
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I say give their drones the ability to do that

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And also give them an rc car too

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Just because it'd be neat

abstract solstice
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just rip the drone stuff out of Watch Dogs 2. that shit was fun as hell

unreal pond
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Let us ride them

astral fox
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let us pick up teammates and fly them onto the objectives

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whether they wanted it or not

unreal pond
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OH OH

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Add a drone with a crane hand

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It can pick stuff up lol

fallow surge
astral fox
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"youre gonna PTFO whether you like it or not"

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also

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let the drone use voice chat

fallow surge
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Honestly would be great because 75% of the time my team is entirely unaware of the fact that in order to capture an objective you should be standing on it

astral fox
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so you can harass an enemy team before dive bombing them

fallow surge
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Give it a robotic filter HyperXD

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[robotic autistic screeching]

unreal pond
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YO WAIT

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Give the crane drone to squad leader

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Fuck, we did it guys. We fixed squad leader

fallow surge
fathom crescent
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One message removed from a suspended account.

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One message removed from a suspended account.

unreal pond
fallow surge
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lil heartbeat for "oh fuck"

sleek token
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Make the jaws theme play when a sniper aims at you

unreal pond
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Fnaf jump scare noise

fathom crescent
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One message removed from a suspended account.

astral fox
lethal hawk
# fathom crescent One message removed from a suspended account.

Your comment on run speed reminds me that I haven't see any single convincing argument for why recon shouldn't get SMGs. Moving fast and flanking people literally should be a recon's role.

If anything, making SMGs a Recon-only category would give the class more personality as the "specialized tools" role and reduce the jack-of-all-tradeness that Medic gets.

fallow surge
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Give medics DMRs HyperXD

abstract solstice
# lethal hawk Your comment on run speed reminds me that I haven't see any single convincing ar...

heres my take; give Honey Badger and AS Val to Recon, and make the AS Val exclusive to Recon. The Val is almost literally purpose-built for spec-ops use, and the way it performs in-game pretty much reflects that, and would play well for Recon. Hell, Oki could even give it a 10-rnd mag that changes its damage, damage drop-off, and fire-rate to be more like the Scar, and changes the weapons name to VSS Vintorez (especially with that beautiful skin from Twitch Rivals) when attached

unreal pond
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Give em to recon

scarlet plank
feral thistle
abstract solstice
fallow surge
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Let us keep the PDWs, i mean it fits the “defenceless medic” trope to give them the PDW

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Another Point: i just like the HB and you can’t take it from me

abstract solstice
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Eh. With the plethora of ARs youd still have at your disposal, and the fact that medic should be the "stay in the pack of friendlies" class, the only time youd be truly defenseless is when youre well and truly fucked anyway. Also, lets be real; HB is a carbine. move it to carbines, move Scorp Evo to PDWs. That would be a much more logical way for those two guns to be arranged, and would also tie the HB and AS Val together as true sister weapons in the game (even if HB would be lonely in the category for non-recon classes lol)

cinder garden
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Recons NEED the ability to ping enemies in order to be viable. whether thats with a gadget, multiple gadgets or with an upgraded ping, they dont have a place in the meta beyond being the designated marksman. Theyre really not recons at all...

feral thistle
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Let recon draw on the (m key) map to indicate enemy positions/relay intelligence.

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(Or just upgraded/tracking pings that give xp if the target is killed)

astral fox
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maybe place arrows or something on it? if you can draw its just gonna be snipers drawing dongs all round

fathom crescent
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One message removed from a suspended account.

obtuse marsh
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Let recons recon (give them SMGs) and 3d squad spotting

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Let recon and leader (when it gets readded) pings appear on the map

fallow surge
abstract solstice
abstract solstice
obtuse marsh
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It wouldn't be dicks, it would be swastikas

abstract solstice
obtuse marsh
abstract solstice
obtuse marsh
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Remove DMRs from enginner, give them ARs and PDWs

abstract solstice
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yes. as much as i love using DMR on engi (for a while, i had more engi playtime than recon specifically because of DMRs), any class other than recon having access to DMRs will always make recon having DMRs be entirely pointless

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recon has shit armour, and pretty shit gadgets. other classes will always do DMRs better

obtuse marsh
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Assault and recon should have DMRs

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Support is fine

abstract solstice
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why assault

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DMRs are long range weapons. BRs are fine, but DMRs dont fit the bill

obtuse marsh
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They should have everything as one of their class features (other than LMG/sniper)

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DMRs can be effective midrange and that's fine, you can be aggressive with them (I usually am)

abstract solstice
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again, recon has the worst armour and class gadgets of any class. unless/until the recon class is greatly improved on a foundational level, other classes having DMRs will make recon having DMRs be reduntant

obtuse marsh
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I mean there's a whoooole lot of balancing to do

abstract solstice
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aye. but thats something you gotta consider while doing balancing in the here and now

obtuse marsh
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But for weapons specifically, I think the above, plus medics should just have ARs and carbines

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And only recon/engi should get c4

abstract solstice
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can always re-jig things once recon has a little more purpose, but right now recon's only advantage over other classes is the drone and their weapons

abstract solstice
obtuse marsh
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You shouldn't be able to threaten a tank as a medic

abstract solstice
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its frankly hilarious how unbalanced medic is. recon is the only class that doesnt have its toes stepped on by medic. Medic is better at assault than asault, better at anti-veh than engi, and frankly the support guns are so trash across the board, medic can often out-gun a support in a straight lead-throwing fight

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from what ive heard from plenty of people, often time the only reason someone plays as assault or engi vs medic is for the DMRs, not the faster reloads on assault or the rockets on Engi

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imagine if medic had dmrs too 💀

obtuse marsh
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Only reason I play engines for RPGs and DMR

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Assault MAYBE if the map calls for grappling hooks

abstract solstice
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another "fuck you" to recon

obtuse marsh
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Nah, assault having grappling hooks is legit, it's a very aggressive focused gadget that opens alternate attack routes

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Assault/recon need it for two different purposes

abstract solstice
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sure, it makes sense, but its just takes even more away from recons ability to be useful as a class lmao

obtuse marsh
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Again, recon currently == sniper

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That's it, and it sucks

abstract solstice
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and thats it. and frankly, if its not a headshot, people have no reason to fear getting shot. so simply being a sniper often isnt very useful because no one is scared of you. you cant be area-denial if no one cares about getting shot lmao

obtuse marsh
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I kind of want to run a community server JUST so I can alter what the class's have access to, and see how it plays

abstract solstice
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right? oki is bewilderingly unwilling to make those changes himself, so all we, the community, can do is just wonder

obtuse marsh
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Yea ok I'm basically making BBR: Battlefield 2 edition, but that's ok!

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BF2/2142's class balance was excellent

abstract solstice
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ye. BF has always done well with that sort of thing. well, then launch-state 2042 came along

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iirc, wasnt it even worse in the pre-release playtests?

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(for BF2042)

obtuse marsh
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2142

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Old skool BF

abstract solstice
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ye, im talkin bout 2042. its class system was a mess at launch, and i heard it was even worse in the playtests. only time i can think of where a BF game fucked up class balance

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(fuck EA for making those names so stupid-similar)

obtuse marsh
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A game so balanced they managed to have a support gunner with guns that got more accurate as you fired them

abstract solstice
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(at least its not cod tho i guess)

obtuse marsh
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And still have it not be OP

abstract solstice
# obtuse marsh And still have it not be OP

i think i saw someone suggest that in the support thread. id frankly rather have just lower recoil across the board for support, but having it lower down to a clamped value as you fire is certainly not a bad idea either

obtuse marsh
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I mean, the ultimax practically has zero recoil

abstract solstice
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with bipod, it certainly has a lot less recoil, but bipod is a whole other can of worms

scarlet plank
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bipod on support makes me want to do things...

fallow surge
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shove it up my bum is what it makes me wanna do

abstract solstice
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it makes me wanna lie down and be an easy target 🗿

scarlet plank
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the whole barrel right?

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nah do special c4 without the c4

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with a heli rope

unreal pond
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Let recons climb up ledges when wearing no armor

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Might be a neat bonus

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I'm taking like reach upwards kind of thing. Clambering

astral fox
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You kind of already can depending on the map.

abstract solstice
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nah he means full-on spiderman shit

astral fox
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I mean I've seen recons doing Spider-Man shit on Isle

unreal pond
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Well kind of yea lol

astral fox
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Dont think no one notices

unreal pond
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Maybe make the jump height higher lol

astral fox
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You already get considerably more distance jumping with high speed

unreal pond
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Idk, some kind of neat mobility thing for no armor for recons for funzies

astral fox
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I know Basra has a parkour route up the ship you can't take with too much armor

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If you want more stuff like that I'm all for it, really enjoy the movement in this game

unreal pond
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Sure, I'm all down for it

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More jumps that can't be made with high armor

abstract solstice
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exo suits have a higher terminal velocity when falling because all dat thiccboi armour makes them aerodynamic

unreal pond
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Give them a ground pound effect

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They can crush enemies in a small radius after taking fall damage. Damage scales with fall damage

fallow surge
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ARMORLOCK

unreal pond
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Safety bubble for exo armor.

obtuse marsh
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Gadget for recon, zip line?

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Fire it similar to grappling hook, but makes a zipline you can whizz across

unreal pond
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I still think that could be wrapped into the grappling hook, but having to choose between the two would be interesting

abstract solstice
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make binocs a recon passive

unreal pond
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Alternative idea, climbing gear. Slower than the rope but unlimited. Also may look funny. Only for the recon

unreal pond
obtuse marsh
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Unsure how that would work in the field

abstract solstice
obtuse marsh
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What would stop you climbing previously unscalable walls

unreal pond
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That's what I said

unreal pond
obtuse marsh
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Lostmixup was doing a little bit of trolling

abstract solstice
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oh, turn down FOV, not up. got it LMAO

unreal pond
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I've been up all night. I'm kind of in a mode 😎

obtuse marsh
# unreal pond That's the idea yea

Sorry, what I mean is from a balance and map perspective, this may cause issues from missing geometry for areas previously unaccessible

abstract solstice
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same. im waiting on that forza motorsport release

obtuse marsh
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It's a good idea though, it would make an interesting passive

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And would make a good separation from assaults grappling hook

unreal pond
obtuse marsh
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It would also work for the recon-side of recon, being able to scale cliffs and finding alternate ways up, as well as snipers getting to advantageous spots

unreal pond
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That's pretty much the idea. The only issue I could see would be no other class being able to get up behind them on certain maps

obtuse marsh
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I would probably put the caveat that it only works on natural surfaces, just so you don't end up seeing recons spidermanning up buildings and negating the need for grappling hooks entirely

unreal pond
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I think that'd be a helpful balancing factor

obtuse marsh
abstract solstice
obtuse marsh
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I can't think of any maps with clifftops that can't be reached somehow though

unreal pond
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Lmao, they're just spider legs

obtuse marsh
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That aren't just blocked off by invisible walls anyway

abstract solstice
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azagor has some rock tops that cant be scaled due to artificial grappling hook restrictions

unreal pond
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I'm thinking of those mushroom shaped rocks on like the sandy maps. Normally they're too high or arch weird so you can't just hook up them

obtuse marsh
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Rock-climbing passive with zipline equipment would be a lot of fun, especially with the verticality of BBRs maps

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And more importantly, a zipline would be useful to the rest of the team whilst also making them vulnerable to incoming fire, it's a win/win.

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I cannot wait to cut a zipline someone is halfway down

unreal pond
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Combine that with smgs or something more aggressive for recons gun wise and you'll have a reason to flank people with recon rather than medic

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And a different kind of flanking

abstract solstice
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nah. AS Val and Honey Badger. Thats what recon needs

fallow surge
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Also buff Honey Badger

abstract solstice
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the fuck more you want for it

fallow surge
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Better quick mag >:(

abstract solstice
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actually yeah HB and Val both need small buffs

abstract solstice
fallow surge
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It’s the least accurate out of all the PDW, idk who decided that nerfing its quick mag to 20 bullets but putting that on the most unwieldy gun on the category is silly

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:(

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WE ALREADY MISS HALF OUR SHOTS AT 50M

abstract solstice
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same thing with the Val tbh. 20 rnd mag... for a 4 shot

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its so dumb. buff it up to 33 or 34 damage and keep the rest of the guns rather unweidly characteristics, its perfect

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high damage but high recoil. makes it a fun, satisfying gun to use but not something you can just pick up and immediately drop 100-bombs with

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tho tbh i do sometimes envy the HBs fire rate

fallow surge
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Or if you insist on the damage nerf make it more accurate >:’(

abstract solstice
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oh yeah, it did get its damaged nerf. right... i mean, it got a sizeable RPM buff, so id say its fair enough

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its also important to keep in mind that, to be honest, HB and Scorp evo need to have their categories swapped. HB makes more sense as a true sister-gun to the Val, and the scorp... well, its the scorp. its not a carbine lol

scarlet plank
unreal pond
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A good change. Give recons piss jars to throw

burnt urchin
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buff msr

unreal pond
feral thistle
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^^ i just like to run it as a cqb sniper

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I just want to run faster and cycle faster with it (the quickscoping machine)

abstract solstice
# feral thistle ^^ i just like to run it as a cqb sniper

Just gonna be blunt; give it up. Snipers being able to do well in cqc has zero place in this games balance, and have been balanced to where they are right now specifically to prevent cqc domination. They have the inverted damage curve for a reason, not to mention that buffing it's close range performance would require nerfing it's long range performance, which is.... really stupid for a sniper rifle. Especially for the rifle that unlocks by far the latest of any of the sniper rifles, having it be the worst at actually sniping would just suck

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It's the exact same reason none of the DMR (i.e. faster cyclic rate) are capable of one-shotting. It just wouldn't be balanced

feral thistle
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When I say cqc, i dont mean smg engagement range (0-50m). I mean working in a team and being on the edge of compound while relaying info. Direct action sniper role instead of the long-range-elimination role most people play it as 75-150m range)

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Like I said I personally would want to move faster (running speed) and cycle faster, compared to the other snipers. the ‘last unlocked sniper’ is outclassed in every category by either the M200 or L96. L96 both moves faster and cycles faster and does more damage to boot. The only thing the msr has over the l96 is muzzle velocity.

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Thats just me though I’m sure everyone and their grandma has their own idea. I just like the idea of playing with more subtle changes to weapons rather than direct impact changes like recoil, dmg, muzzle velocity, etc.

abstract solstice
# feral thistle Like I said I personally would want to move faster (running speed) and cycle fas...

incorrect. MSR has the fastest rate of fire of all snipers (bolt speed is not the same as RPM for snipers, its really stupid and needs to be fixed #game-bugs message). What needs to happen is that bolt speeds be actually representative of rate of fire, and that would make the L96 the "squad sniper" you want (SSG would also be very good at it with those changes). But tbh, thats what a DMR is. Snipers have no business stepping on the toes of DMRs, and making some sort of "short range" sniper would do exactly that, and would be upset the niche that DMRs have finally found

gentle cloud
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DMRs are still very oppressive at those ranges against snipers though, I doubt they'll just fall out of use just because we have 1 or 2 snipers that have fast bolt speed to be more effective at those ranges.

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Not to mention those snipers should have slower muzzle velocities compared to other snipers but that still is a bit of a balancing problem with the rest of the game

feral thistle
abstract solstice
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Well, for the sake of balancing, that 1shot headshot is precisely why snipers really have no need to do any better in cqc than they currently do.

unreal pond
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Give recon smgs 😎

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I wanna be a hyper speed recon

feral thistle
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This discussion should really move into the msr thread, that being said.

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Recon as a class just needs better opportunity to…recon. Relay info. I’ll beat that drum till I die. Give recon better info gathering/relaying capabilities. Putting enemy locations (even a static ping) on the m map can help massively. (As a thought, literally just want anything)

paper dove
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why would msr be the close range sniper

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that makes no sense

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give that role to ssg 69 or rem700

abstract solstice
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I just dont think there's room for having a "short range" sniper. Thats what a DMR is, and it was already very difficult for DMRs to arrive at their current niche because of how dominant snipers are at any range beyond 50-100m. With a damage nerf to the M200, MSR with okay velocity but very high damage to infantry and light armour would be am empty niche among sniper rifles, without treading on DMR territory.
It would be the same thing with how Oki had to nerf M110 RPM into the ground, it was being used go great effect in almost SMG close-quarters when it had no business doing so, and oki had to put his foot down about "that's not how I intend a 2-shot DMR to be used, get over it"

paper dove
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how I imagine it

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m200: realy good velocity but shit damage

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MSR mid velocity and good damage

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l96 middle ground, doesn't excel at anything in particular

fallow surge
paper dove
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rem700: fast bolt speed, fast ads times and 1.0 run speed, but mid damage and velocity

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ssg: decent ads speed and reduced muzzle flash (shit damage and velocity tho)

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maybe quieter too

abstract solstice
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Also, give SSG a 150 velocity and fix its dogshit rate of fire, its exactly the "close range sniper" you seem to want, without having to use a DMR. There's no reason to completely upend the established performance of one sniper when there's already a sniper that is effectively what you want lol

paper dove
abstract solstice
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(Also, let's just get this out of the way. 1000 velocity should be the floor for snipers, 900 feels like shit with 18mph medics. You miss too many shots at 900 velocity because of factors you have no control over)

paper dove
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for sure

abstract solstice
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Especially since 900 makes the ssg slower than 2 of the dmrs LOL

paper dove
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Yep

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what would sv 98s niche be

gentle cloud
paper dove
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it's kinda just there

gentle cloud
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make it have the fastest bullet velocity but the lowest rpm

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also for the love of god reduce the massive gap between m200 and the rest of the snipers in terms of muzzle velocity

paper dove
gentle cloud
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It matters a lot

abstract solstice
paper dove
gentle cloud
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For one you might miss, you might have the drop on a group of enemies and a faster rpm would net you more kills before they realize there's a sniper shooting them

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Acting like snipers only care about muzzle velocity and damage is not accurate

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there's a reason why some of this game's influences had a variety of snipers and managed to balance them

paper dove
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managed to balance them??

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idk about that

gentle cloud
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I'm not talking about this game

abstract solstice
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I 100% don't care about moving and reloading slow, the gun just doesn't have the ballistic performance to justify it

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And MSR reloads stupidly, absurdly slow, so its not just a nothing-burger to say I don't care about its reload speed

gentle cloud
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The secondary stats still matter and can be used to differentiate/balance snipers effectively

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but then again nothing can balance the absurd gap between m200 and the rest of the class

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everything else goes up by 100 m/s while fucking m200 has +300m/s over the second highest muzzle velocity

paper dove
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making 1000 the floor for velocity would work well

abstract solstice
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And they already differentiate the MSR, and partly the M200 as well (it moves slow but just reloads real god damn fast). They just don't have high ballistic performance to balance out the much slower movement and reload

paper dove
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I think 1400m/s is fine as long as m200 does less damage

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cause with 1400m/s shooting at exo players is literally hitscan that's just too easy if it still one shots exo helmet

gentle cloud
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That's another problem imo

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exo armor should not make you a snail tbh

unreal pond
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I say make the firerate garbo on the m200

abstract solstice
gentle cloud
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but if it does m200 should not one shot them

unreal pond
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Really incentize getting that one tap with it

paper dove
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that could work too

gentle cloud
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and it should be that way idk why it isn't

abstract solstice
gentle cloud
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like in every battlefield game the fastest muzzle velocity sniper has the lowest bolt speed

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bolt speed overall is not used to balance snipers for some reason

abstract solstice
paper dove
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does the bolt speed stat even work

gentle cloud
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on the topic of bolt speed, we really don't need 6 different bolts

paper dove
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honestly

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3 would be adequate

unreal pond
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And draw speed

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And reload speed

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Make missing with it dogshit

gentle cloud
#

missing is a part of sniping

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it should never be dogshit

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it can be worse than other snipers sure

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but making it "dogshit" is just lame

abstract solstice
# paper dove does the bolt speed stat even work

Yep. It works.... I think. Its just that there's a delay between firing and even starting to bolting action. And that delay, which differs from gun to gun, ends up being a bigger factor than the bolt speed itself

paper dove
unreal pond
#

There are other snipers that won't play that way

gentle cloud
#

that's not balancing

unreal pond
#

I'm just saying it'd be a very punishing sniper.

unreal pond
abstract solstice
#

If you have bolt E unlocked on the MSR or M200, you can test it yourself. You're practically a machine gun because there's almost no delay between firing and starting to bolt the next round.

unreal pond
#

It's just slower than every other sniper in those regards

gentle cloud
#

why do we have 6 bolts even

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makes unlocking them a chore and nobody uses anything other than E as far as I've seen

abstract solstice
#

On the other end, that delay is almost tasteable on the SSG, despite it having actually a pretty high bolt speed.

abstract solstice
paper dove
gentle cloud
#

then we can just have 2 options

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not 6

unreal pond
#

We do have a wacky amount of bolts

abstract solstice
#

Running no canted sight, no grip, regular mag, and C bolt on SSG is legit speedy. I think the only way to beat it even with the L96 is by running the short mag on the L96. But then you've got 6 rounds vs the SSGs 10

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It's why I think that the SSG only really needs a velocity buff (and nerf L96 short mag a bit) to make it a viable sniper even compared to other snipers. It already works well as the "wetwork" sniper

gentle cloud
#

ngl I genuinely don't like bolts affecting run speed, it's so fucking dumb

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like you have the "weight" justification for sights and all but bolts?

abstract solstice
#

Honestly, recon is kind of funny that way. With the L96 short mag or the SSG, you have some of the highest run speeds across all classed, but you also have the MSR with bipod and extendoboy being the second-slowest reloading gun in the entire game (yes, even slower than ultimax bipod) with similarly slow movement speed

gentle cloud
#

this just shows how little thought was put into some gun classes and attachments

unreal pond
abstract solstice
#

Being a recon main (especially since I main both the SSG and MSR 💀) is like volunteering to get whiplash

gentle cloud
paper dove
#

running speed should only be changed by armor and certain guns like lmgs, but barely

gentle cloud
abstract solstice
gentle cloud
#

makes unlocking attachments don't feel like a reward

unreal pond
#

I love making a gun usable on support, and getting punished by being even slower 💀

abstract solstice
gentle cloud
abstract solstice
astral fox
#

(still love me ultimax)

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wait this isnt the support thread. oops sorry

paper dove
#

yeah ik

feral thistle
#

150 msgs all I wanted was to move faster. people out here talking like it’d upend all dmr and sniper meta

astral fox
#

thatd be a cool way to give non-m200 snipers a niche

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like "yeah you wont oneshot exo but youre fast as fuck boy"

unreal pond
#

Repositioning quickly? Nah

gentle cloud
#

never mind the short ttk, extreme acceleration and flinch or anything

unreal pond
#

Honestly if the control stat had more of an effect that might help

lethal hawk
#

Add bayonets so you can use ironsight SR's to cosplay a musket

unreal pond
#

40x scope by default

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Stronger the closer you are

abstract solstice
unreal pond
#

You know

#

Kind of a weird ask, but 100% serious

#

Can we get some moden lever actions for recon?

lethal hawk
#

Ok also serious time, Recon should get something like making no noise when moving through foliage without sprinting or something. As it stands, they're worse at everything than any other class so literally the only reason to pick them is SRs.

sly plover
#

oh i kinda like that

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they make less noise when moving than other class

abstract solstice
#

i made the same suggestion a while ago, along with giving the class the Honey Badger and AS Val, and potentially making the AS Val unique to Recon (but meh, im fully aware that assault mains wont like that lol)

fathom crescent
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gentle cloud
#

this is what the entire thread has been saying for a while now, make the glint cone same as the view cone of the sniper so people do not see you if you do not see them

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would actually be "fair" as a warning mechanism that way

fathom crescent
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gentle cloud
#

Yea I really hate how some reticles look, makes using them a challenge of how I can see my target instead of if I can aim correctly.

fathom crescent
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lethal hawk
abstract solstice
#

wanna know the best part

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its stats are identical to normal sniper armour

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or rather, normal armour on recon has the same stats as normal ranger armour, and sniper ranger is "normal"

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moreso, they all share the same durability

unreal pond
abstract solstice
#

and yes, that does mean that even "normal" armour for recon has the crappy durability that light and ranger usually have. recon's armour state is fucking awful

fathom crescent
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lethal hawk
fathom crescent
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lethal hawk
# fathom crescent One message removed from a suspended account.

I mean even then Assault has ammo boxes so it would still not be a unique bonus in any meaningful way. Specially since they get bandages which are very helpful when doing long distance stuff far away from medics.

Tracking enemies is way too powerful tbh, Planetside 2 gave snipers a recon dart that would show everyone moving in the area which basically killed any form of stealth.

#

Spotting feels like one of those quality of life things that needs to be improved across the board but that it should also not differ too hard between classes.

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I think giving them decreased noise/increased hearing would fit their playstyle.

paper dove
#

long range scopes are still dogshit

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spotting mechanics are dogshit

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sniper balance is dogshit

feral thistle
#

here here

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The general recommendations so far (just to recap):

Narrow scope glare to be in line with what the sniper sees
add carbines to sniper
Quieter movement
better spotting mechanics/map drawing capability

paper dove
#

i agree with all of this

fallow surge
#

Spotting is so fucking inconsistent like fr

lethal hawk
#

I mean. Sure, they will be by far the worst users of it. Just wondering what the reasoning is.

fallow surge
#

There’s this idea of recons not being relegated to medium to long ranges and being the true mobility class

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As they’re supposed to be able to scout and stuff

lethal hawk
fallow surge
#

Pfff idfk I don’t even know the difference in definition

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Probably because everyone hates SMGs or something

feral thistle
# lethal hawk carbines wat

Wasnt my idea originally someone else said. Basically they wanted to give recon the capability to be more of a fast mover/flanker role so that they could work more closely with the team. I think the idea was to fall into a ‘spec ops’ archetype/loadout

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The main carbine was the as val to fit that ‘spec ops kit’ type role.

lethal hawk
#

They are straight up worse in combat than everyone else so at least they could specialize in the stealth factor

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And for what its worth I do think suppressors are an extremely strong attachment. Flanking is like day and night depending on whether you have one.

astral fox
unreal pond
#

Or at least the pp2000

abstract solstice
#

all they need is the HB and AS Val. any of the SMGs would feel out of place

burnt urchin
#

msr buff soon?

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make recon viable

unreal pond
#

It only has suppressors as attachments 😎

abstract solstice
#

it still an smg

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with all the movement stats of an smg

unreal pond
#

Give them one option for a heavy flanking playstyle to go with their empty armor

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They have basically no armor, so they should have options for it

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Recon should either be sniping or flanking imo

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Aka doing what medic is doing 😂

abstract solstice
#

the AS Val already has speedy enough stats. recon itself is also pretty fast

unreal pond
#

The fal with the short for example has the highest movement stat if you go by what the game tells you

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But you're slower than with an smg still

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Also, I as more guns are added, it's a bit silly to still limit recon to just 2 guns

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Maybe if ONLY recon got then it'd be ok

abstract solstice
#

not quite. its that attachments dont affect speed by as much as the stats page says

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base speed, without attachments, is accurate as far as im aware. so no, SMGs dont have a unique speed buff. they just dont need attachments to get above 1.00 like ARs do

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for instance, AS Val base running speed is right up there with the PP19 and MP5

fathom crescent
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fathom crescent
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unreal pond
#

love me the pp200

unreal pond
#

but I could be wrong

fathom crescent
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fallow surge
#

Pull out the glock on support and you’re in a diff world

fathom crescent
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fallow surge
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I think it’s like

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A generic load out run speed that then gets modified by whatever it is you’re holding

obtuse marsh
#

It's not, armor run speed modifiers are always applied

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That's what you're seeing

fathom crescent
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unreal pond
#

I still don't know if this is true. Someone did some run speed checks before

astral fox
#

medic doing a sick dunk while support showboats

unreal pond
#

Ah found em

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@lethal hawk I summon thee

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Do a run speed test as support with pistols sometime

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Like pistol compared to primary

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I've never noticed a difference personally, but I may just be dumb. If there was a difference then logically you'd run fastest as medic with your medkit out I would think

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Or as support with bandages

lethal hawk
#

aight

lethal hawk
#

Conclusion: pistol makes you go faster, primary still affects speed when holstered but attachments don't seem to have an impact on that effect

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Keywords in case someone wants to find these messages later: run running test time speed weapon gun primary attachment attachments pistol fast slow faster slower

abstract solstice
#

i believe the primary is the base walkspeed, and the pistol's walkspeed acts as a modifier, no?

fallow surge
#

and then pulling out the thing like youre boutta whip someone

astral fox
#

"ah shit, here we go again"

unreal pond
#

Interesting, it's just slightly faster

abstract solstice
#

I am asking once again, Oki, that you give recon a "binoculars" gadget slot separate from their two normal gadget slots, and let players choose between regular binocs, advanced binocs (lol), and SOFLAM binocs (not like theres another class that uses them anymore 🙃)

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i think its very silly indeed that recon, given its name, must give up binocs in their loadout if they want to carry C4, mines, clayMOARs, etc, even moreso with the almost entirely unusable state of the long-range scopes

feral thistle
#

Soflam on recon 🤤

lethal hawk
feral thistle
abstract solstice
feral thistle
abstract solstice
#

😭

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amazing how recon and support are both fucking drowning in "oki forgot us" in totally different ways

unreal pond
#

Give recon a fidget spinner

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So he can distract himself while he waits

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Or an ipad

astral fox
abstract solstice
#

why the fuck were you so quick to come up with that

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not even 10 full minutes

astral fox
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graphic design is my passion

abstract solstice
#

oh i can tell

astral fox
#

the other option was cocomelon

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but that feels more like a medic thing

abstract solstice
unreal pond
#

Excellent meme

lethal hawk
#

Has anyone suggested no moving while ADS for long scopes? (as an alternative to glint)

abstract solstice
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if you ask me, bipods should lock you in place if theyre deployed (and obviously be manually deployed instead of just deployed at their own will)

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would also like to see an option for toggle-ADS that only applies to deployed bipods

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because toggle ADS is nice (and IMO feels proper) for bipods, but i aint want that shit for my sidearm when i pull that out

lethal hawk
lethal hawk
abstract solstice
#

well, the locking movement thing is largely a balance mechanism for support to balance out bipods ideally having extreme recoil reduction for support weapons when deployed, at the cost of making you vulnerable when the bipod is deployed. And that not apply to bipods on recon would be... "weird" i guess is the best word for it? sort of similar to how assault just... doesnt get one of the carbines. its kinda weird and no one really understands the reasoning for it

lethal hawk
abstract solstice
#

and the moment you stop doing either/both, youll undeploy if trying to move, instead of having to press the movement key again?

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that way, if you stop firing and ADSing at the same time as you try to start moving, itll pretty much feel as if theres no movement lock in the first place, but it would also mean you still do actually have to stop benefiting from the bipod buffs to be able to move. maybe?

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that would also prevent the stupid little shimmies recon players do while ADS in order to move their head hitbox all over the place (if youve seen how a players head practically teleports around a bit when going from 'prone stationary' to 'prone moving' and back again, you know exactly what i mean)

shrewd zephyr
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Recon should be names Marksmen would match what it actually is more

fallow surge
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or we can give it the capabilities of reconning

unreal pond
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Rename support to Donald Trump while you're at it lol

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Building that wall boi

feral thistle
fathom crescent
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fathom crescent
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deep coral
azure ginkgo
ripe oak
#

also funny how most people want the least two played classes nerfed the most

unreal pond
#

Do agree

obtuse marsh
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That was posted in the wrong thread, whoops

unreal pond
shrewd zephyr
#

tbh recon wouldn't be as weak if grass didn't despawn in such a short distance

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would be fun to actually be able to crawl through tall grass and sneak somewhere to snipe

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also recon should not have the person they just killed camera to focus on them... tbh i dont think any kill should do that because its way to quick to respawn and know exactly where the person that killed you is if they are trying to be somewhat sneaky.

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or maybe if you have a suppressor on your gun it wont do it

deep coral
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Yeah I’m usually more successful as sniper fort recon, wonder if this is part of it

tough meteor
#

I think advanced binoculars should be automatically given as an additional gadget to players using a long range scope.

Fix scope cone glint which a vast majority of snipers support. The community needs an update on recon changes being considered by the devs.

fallow surge
deep coral
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Just use a 4x lol

crisp sail
#

some concepts, potentially:
Recon I feel like should be leaned away from sniping
[] give them 3d spotting against people and vehicles, as well as twice the spot duration
[] recon's spotted targets will give the range like a rangefinder when aimed at
[] give points for damage and kills against spotted enemies
[] incentivise using the DMRs over the sniper rifles
[] potentially access to battle rifles with low ammo reserves?
[] jack up bolt rifle structure/vehicle damage

recon id like to become able to do sapper duty and sneaky crap as well as spot things for shooting at
also antimateriel work, especially with intervention and L115A3 or whatever the AWM is, sapping gadgets and defenses

astral fox
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give them honeybadger and AS VAL for sneaking

crisp sail
astral fox
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getting behind enemy lines very fast and setting up beacons/claymores/mines or ruining cover for the enemy

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the same spotter stuff would still be useful to plan your approach/get cover fire from your squad

crisp sail
#

recon concept
[+] good at sapper work, with access to c4 and weapons with high structure/light vehicle damage
[+] good at precision kills, with instant kill headshot capable weapons and long range firearms
[+] good at intel, marking targets to improve situational awareness for the squad
[-] bad at sustain, with low bandage and reserve ammo counts across the board, for gadgets and weapons
[-] low survivability, with only access to unarmored, light, and standard vests

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recon i think should always be at a disadvantage in direct combat

deep coral
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I agree, what recon really needs is just for spotting to get fixed/buffed

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Sniping is currently very very fun and plenty powerful enough, would just be nice if you could actually help your team with intel

azure flare
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DMRs should be either restricted to recon class or make the medium scopes on DMRs have scope glint.

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Everytime you spawn, some noob is tagging you for bleed or spamming m110 in your direction.

feral thistle
#

I saw someone else say this and I agree. If you want a good recon tool just give recon the soflam and add the flir mechanic to it (powered on/powered off.) soflam was great for squad leader and is already in the game.

abstract solstice
# feral thistle I saw someone else say this and I agree. If you want a good recon tool just give...

me me i said it. i think it was a waste of dev time for oki to have even removed the Squad Leader class as doing so achieves literally nothing, but he did anyway so might as well make use of those SOFLAM binocs on recon (and please make them just a class-passive for recon instead of having to take up a gadget slot for them. its dumb that recon has to give up binocs to carry what is usually a very small amount of explosives)

feral thistle
obtuse marsh
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Give recon a zipline they can setup

fallow surge
#

zippity!

azure flare
#

ghillie suits too pls ?

gentle cloud
#

why? grass despawns at 100m HyperXD

deep coral
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I wonder how much GPU it would take for grass to not despawn

plain parcel
#

Depending on implementation non at all or a lot

fallow surge
#

We can’t even render the Doritos in a variable range

abstract solstice
azure flare
unreal pond
#

.- words

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Remove the dot

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I now see + and -. But enjoy my tutorial anyway

lethal hawk
#

The whole "relying information" point of Recon will never be relevant as long as squad spawning exists

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You can say "one medic moving on the east" and three seconds later the guy has turned into an all engi squad

deep coral
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False dichotomy, knowing that there is a squad coming to flank is still very useful information even if you can say exactly how many people are coming

lethal hawk
deep coral
burnt urchin
#

buffing msr would make recon viable

onyx eagle
#

Hi guys, I knoww this is going to attract hate, I belive the Recon problems in BBR is there are too many allowed.

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the current state is they have great rewards for being a sniper and getting headshots vs other classes and I believe they need to be limited to one per squad or a number per team to reduce this, i have been in so many games where over half the team is recon and no ones going for bases.

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same as HLL and Isonso

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I like the recon sniper class but just think it should be controlled

lethal hawk
#

And if you limit recons then I'll just switch to doing the same with DMRs on the engi

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It's an incentives and gameplay design problem, not just a "too many recons" allowed problem

astral fox
ripe oak
# onyx eagle the current state is they have great rewards for being a sniper and getting head...

I would say sniper isnt really rewarded that well compared to any other class for what they do and limiting the amount of snipers really wouldnt fix anything as people who enjoy the gameplay of sniper would just switch engie as lucuma said to allow that long range gameplay
over all snipers have little to no impact on the game look at the stats of a high level sniper and a high level assault/medic/engie and i bet they wouldnt even be close to similar pidgeoning people into playing things they dont want to because you dont like how they are playing is not the solution

deep coral
#

Yeah if you’re going for points there are many better options than Recon

ripe oak
#

points , kills , objectives , flanking all handled better by other classes

deep coral
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That take less skill and get more points consistently

ripe oak
#

^

deep coral
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Recon has a fun gameplay loop that’s why I play it

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Try to find a really good spot, eventually do and kill a bunch of enemies with headshots in rapid succession, feel good

ripe oak
#

in fact id wager no other class is punished more for playing how its supposed to be played its not hard to guess where youve been shot from if you choose long range you get spotted by glint go medium range and you are less efficent kill wise than DMRS at the moment imo

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its a labor of love really

deep coral
#

Yeah, I mean I run bolt action with 4x and think it’s better than DMRs in a lot of situations but much more position dependent and less flexible

gentle cloud
#

Recon is technically punished for doing what it's supposed to do

ripe oak
#

i mean it even goes further than the class itself there are some mechanics that just limit snipers effectiveness over all how easy it is to spawn in on squadmates means that even longer range if theres two people theres a pretty good chance that the squadmate will just spawn on the other the pickrate of medic means your long range kill targets if the medic isnt a selfish med means they just get revived

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idk a real hot take people will genuinely dislike is targets headshot by bolties cannot be revived

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if you want sniper to have actual game impact thats a okay start

gentle cloud
ripe oak
#

i mean there are some easy ways to do it too but again people would just whine about it

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plus snipers have gotten nerfs in other areas that harmed the class even more like the roof top skirts making it so you cant even see people pushing your buildings really anymore so you might as well not go in them

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it was explained as a buff but i think people who play sniper a bit more can easily tell the difference

gentle cloud
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Not to mention the horrible glint that existed since the start but oh well

deep coral
#

Cuz then you only have an opening in one direction

lethal hawk
shrewd zephyr
shrewd zephyr
shrewd zephyr
#

i think the biggest reason why people hate snipers is that it stopes you from just sitting still for a moment or slowing down and unless your running dmr or a bolt action there is really nothing you can do about them and its a big problem because most people refuse to switch of medic its one of those classes that you have to switch classes to deal with or go way out of your way to deal with... amd that's if there not sniping in there spawn area where you cnat reach and they cam just keep dropping ammo crates on themselves so mostly unlimited heals and more ammo then they need

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so getting killed by them feels bs

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its basically people are mad that they can sit super far away and get 10-20 kills without dying

astral fox
#

im way more mad at the 5 recons in my squad doing nothing in the bushes all game than the ones on the enemy team that dont really impact me at all in comparison

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in general

shrewd zephyr
#

and i always find it funny that they said shotguns are always really hard to balance, but i feel like bolt actions and DMRs can be just as hard

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and I'm not asking for shotguns, so don't say "they aren't gonna add shotguns "

deep coral
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I like having a couple recons in my squad they’re like free rally points

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Unless they’re way too far away to be useful

ripe oak
deep coral
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But sitting like a few hundred meters away from a point

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God I love playing recon on Wakistan

astral fox
ripe oak
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more power to ya

astral fox
#

i need people playing the game, not some guy alt-tabbed out to shoot Hitler's nuts off in Sniper Elite

ripe oak
#

but people often dont think about recons role as a silent mobile spawn beacon

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i mean you spawned on them so it couldnt of been that bad of a position

astral fox
deep coral
#

Sounds like you just dislike noob recons

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Which is fair tbh

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All the other classes when you’re bad you can still do something to help the team a lot

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Well, at least like medic, support, and engineer can

shrewd zephyr
#

like wine paradise most are in there spawn zones or on there back objectives and are not normally good spawn areas
same as on sandy

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and when we talk about why people find recon bs its normal the ones that are 500-600m away from everything that just sits in one area and never moves

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the ones that are 100-200m away from an objective are normally not found as annoying

deep coral
#

Yeah fair, I’m partly biased too cuz whenever I’m playing at least half my squad is in a discord call and none of them are sitting 500m away

crisp sail
gentle cloud
#

Man why does half the suggestions in this thread focus on removing the gameplay the class is played for? Especially considering the class is not as effective as they, or as useless as they make it out to be.

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"Limit the number of recons", "Remove bolt actions" etc. are just suggestions that do not consider why people play recon or exaggerate shit that happens maybe 5% of the time.

obtuse marsh
#

Ehh, I'd like to see it get more options without losing what it currently has

gentle cloud
#

that's my point

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the class as is does not require a removal of gameplay options

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The main problem with recon is there simply is no way to communicate the intel you gather with the rest of the team at large, and the amount you can communicate with your squad is simply not good enough without using voice comms.

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but no, let's turn bolt action rifles into a glorified gadget to push recons into using dmrs, dmrs that engineer can already use.

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or let's limit their number per squad/team that'll surely "fix" the (probably) weakest class

feral thistle
#

I’ve been beating the drums on Lost’s suggestion to add the soflam binocs to recon

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Especially if they got flir. The info gathering would be great, and if you couple that with the #1173633384791146566 message suggestion then you’d have great info gathering coupled with great dissemination

deep coral
crisp sail
shrewd zephyr
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recon should be renamed to marksmen because as it is there is no required recon at all

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like until there is an actual milsim mode no recon is actually going to need to do recon

gentle cloud
#

why is it shocking to you that a weapon class designed around being used at long range is just that?

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want to give recon more options? allow them to use smgs/pdws and go for an infiltrator kind of role

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not remove the gameplay they are known for

plain parcel
#

And the fact that every other class just takes smg/ar and is super duper deadly all the time is not an issue? Recon shouldn't be punished for the one thing it's good at (and the guns they use)
Which is long range combat

deep coral
#

Yeah sniping is great and super fun in this game, changing that would be a mistake for sure

azure flare
#

Recon needs railgun

azure flare
crisp sail
# gentle cloud not remove the gameplay they are known for

id argue being known for a certain style doesn't make it good
its like how medic has stupid high self sustain
is it known for being able to do that? yes
should it be able to do that? no
im not saying that recon needs to have bolt sctions deleted, but i am saying focus should shift to dmrs and having a more active focus in the game rather thsn chris kyle roleplay

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that and i genuinely dont like the dynamic of having a firing line hanging around the edges of the map nearly untouchable wsiting for someone to hold still for like one second too long

gentle cloud
#

Bringing up medic here is a false equivalency

#

using bolt actions does not restrict you to playing passive at all, how do I know this? I play that way. Forcing people to use a weapon type just because you think their gameplay is not desirable is just being bad at design

#

snipers can and do actively effect the game through zone denial but you choose to disregard that for some reason

#

normally they would also have a way to communicate enemy locations etc. with their team but for some reason they don't in BBR

deep coral
#

Every other class has two jobs:
-kill people in certain scenarios
-contribute to the team in some other way

#

Eg. for the latter:
Medics heal teammates
Engineers repair and kill vehicles
Supports build defenses and supply ammo

#

As a player learning the game or learning that class you can primarily do this other non-killing role and naturally get engaged in combat gameplay as well

#

But recons don’t have a second role because they lack the ability to communicate enemy locations to the team

#

So then the new recon is trying to figure out what to do and the only thing they can do for points is get kills

crisp sail
deep coral
#

If they try to play closer to the action they die without getting any points because it requires good positioning knowledge

#

So then they’re discouraged from that and go sit far away and get like 10 kills a game and are useless

#

But if they had a way to communicate enemy locations to the team and got good points for it, then even the new recons who can’t hit their shots will be trying to get to good positions where they can see a lot of the enemy team for the points

#

And that encouraged practice will let them build the positioning skills to play the class well

#

Same way the noob medic is forced into close range gun fights while he tries to get points from healing and reviving people

#

Sniping from the edge of the map is fully a noob trap. A good recon can massacre enemy infantry with a bolt action from a good position, but if you don’t spend the time repeatedly dying trying to get to a good position then you’re never going to be a good recon.

tough meteor
# crisp sail which is also a gripe im starting to think recon should have as a passive that 3...

Recon spotting fortifications allowing support to melt sandbags in a few seconds or so would give both classes more utility.

I can get 40+ kill games, I snipe infantry and counter snipe. Recon provides overwatch utility to the team, I'd like to see Recon buffs enhance that.

As a start I'd also buff velocity of non M200 bolt actions like MSR by 100-200. Nerf velocity of m200 by 100-200.

Fix the cone of long range scope glint or give recon destroyable leaf sniper nests that obfuscate and reduce glint.

The m200 would still retain the highest velocity giving it long range utility. Current glint transparency through 🍂 are effectively a bug.
🌟🍂🔭

crisp sail
tough meteor
#

If it was repairable I think that'd be good. Recon should be also be able to dmg harass armed little birds if they hit critical areas.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of recon players support fixing the cone fov of glint.

crisp sail
gentle cloud
#

Man there's no hesitation to touching glint.

#

Shit's actually broken. There's a reason nobody with a head on their shoulders uses a long range scope in this game.

#

The glint goes through trees, foliage and in some cases fucking walls. It can be seen by people you don't even see. It's not a warning that a sniper is looking at you. It's a lighthouse telling you where the sniper is.

gentle cloud
plain parcel
#

Narrower glint cone and glint on medium scopes would make it so so much better. Instead of noobytrap long range scope being just beacon for all and medium scope being the only viable meta

deep coral
crisp sail
# deep coral > the glint isn’t incredibly obvious Uhhhhhh

Half the time when I'm firing at someone they usually look around and duck for cover on a miss

and for me a lot of the time it's easy to miss the sparkle unless you're very carefully searching
in any area eith fighting you usually get passed over

azure flare
#

man your messages are too long

#

lemme start small

#

fix glint, can't count how many times I've sprayed through foliage for free kills

#

fix ads and movement speed for recon with dmr

#

give back barrel damage buffs for recon

deep coral
#

It’s easier to miss or not worry about as a non-recon who’s getting sniped at sure

gentle cloud
#

I also can't imagine how you miss the glint, no matter how careless you are you are bound to see the quite big bright spot that appears through trees and foliage.

deep coral
azure flare
#

yes but the glint is broken

deep coral
#

Yes

gentle cloud
#

Who would have thought that removing the lighthouse on top of your gun would make you less noticeable? Not oki I geuss 🤷‍♂️

azure flare
#

you shouldn't have to resort to a diff scope because of abug

#

thats what I wanted to point out

deep coral
#

Mandatory sniper flashlight has been a staple of the genre

#

But yeah agree fix the cone, we were responding to the guy who said glint isn’t a big deal

edgy jay
#

yo, imagine if every player had a HUD warning every time they were near an smg user. you know, just to give opposing players a fair advantage against an smg's strength of flanking and CQC. footsteps, observation, gunfire, and communication is just not enough.

that is how sniper glint feels. reduce the visibility cone.

fallow surge
#

Grenade indicator? Nah, smg indicator

gilded kite
terse shale
#

Playing my friend's advocate here since I barely use them myself due to poor performance, but he's been feeling a HEAVY DROUGHT of marksman rifles in the lower levels (he's rank 39 right now).

He's got 4 ARs, 3 SMGs and 2 Snipers but he only enjoys the semi-auto marksman rifles.. of which he's soon going to only have 2. He's going to get his third eventually once he gets lv60, but the lack of options early on felt incredibly difficult for him to grind and push through.

At least having 2 weapons of all types (DMR, Sniper, maybe Carbine) would give lower-level players options. Right now, if we dislike the starting sniper, we're stuck using other classes to level up.

Having to grind through 30 levels to get a second option feels pretty awful, when ARs and SMGs get 2 from the get go with no grind.

Just my two cents!

gentle cloud
#

This is a progression issue though not a recon one

#

The same thing happens with bolt action rifles as well

feral thistle
#

To be fair, the Mk20 is probably the best all round dmr in the game

tough meteor
#

The rate of bolting on the ssg 69 is atrocious. I'd rather have a sniper m1 garand with a 2x as a starter. At least it'd be a cool gun with some utility similar to a dmr.

fallow surge
#

Someone explain to me how I can land a hit marker at 750m HyperXD

plain parcel
#

What gun, what attachments, did you hit head? There's lots that play into that.

You can hitmark with L96 if you hit exo helmet

paper iron
#

yea, snipers cannot one body shot anymore

#

the only sniper that can do that rn might be the m200

#

but without armor

#

also, you need to be at +1000m

#

but you can one shot headshot at all distances

fallow surge
ripe oak
#

best part aboout recon now is your shots can dink off of medic helmets too if they have the other one ekssdee

paper iron
#

i felt that, both ways LMAO

deep coral
#

The damage ramp starts past 750m

fallow surge
#

But I start sucking past 500m HyperXD

deep coral
#

Yeah I play a lot of recon and rarely get kills past 500m, just not necessary usually

plain parcel
#

I play a lot of recon and I rarely go above 700m

plain parcel
fallow surge
feral thistle
#

just click heads ez pz

#

(for legal reasons, this is a joke)

#

I like to run the L96 burris at 50-150 m, sticking close to the rest of my team.

#

In my experience playing the role of a closer range sniper lets you make callouts and keep and eye on your team, while augmenting their capability by dealing with enemy snipers, entrenched gunners, or keep enemy medics occupied bandaging (and thus not shooting)

lethal hawk
# feral thistle just click heads ez pz

It is once you have the M200 with rangefinder and best bolt. But the initial experience with any sniper rifle is quite possibly the worst utter garbage across any weapon category in this game and I can't believe they decided to go with that as a weekly challenge tbh.

feral thistle
#

It's true, getting from 0-15 (medium scope unlock) kills is the same as getting from 15-75 for rangefinder

lethal hawk
#

They clearly have no plans to rework glint any time soon so at the very least every SR should come with a medium scope by default instead of forcing people to be walking lighthouses. :/

#

(personally I think glint is a silly mechanic that should go and be replaced with other meaningful debuffs on the scopes)

gentle cloud
lethal hawk
# gentle cloud care to elaborate?

You can do things like increase ADS time and force people out of ADS whenever they move. This forces the sniper to stand in an exposed position for a moment as they line up the shot, allowing for countersnipers to do their thing. But it doesn't outright point the entire server at them.

gentle cloud
#

forcing out of ads whenever they move sounds horrendous to play with ngl, maybe instead something like a huge accuracy penalty would be better

#

but seriously I don't understand how glint has no been reworked yet

#

it effectively removed long range scopes from the game and I've yet to hear a mention of even a fix

lethal hawk
gentle cloud
#

imagine slightly moving and being yanked out of ads

lethal hawk
paper iron
#

is there a game with that mechanic actually?

gentle cloud
#

or requiring people to stand still to even look at their targets would be kinda annoying

gentle cloud
lethal hawk
gentle cloud
#

I only stop to take shots so my bullets do not veer off

#

Yea binos are just a bad idea

#

they are too fucking slow to do anything with realistically

lethal hawk
paper iron
#

BF4 has a mechanic that forces people to move out the scope to use bipod, that could be something here

gentle cloud
lethal hawk
gentle cloud
#

the movement is too fast to allow you to first use a bino then pull out your gun ads and aim

#

all of these are just work arounds to something that can just not be there in the first place though

#

you can blur their sight

#

give them accuracy penalties

lethal hawk
#

That would be an arbitrary mechanic considering accuracy penalties aren't a thing in this game

gentle cloud
#

and how is forcing people out of ads isn't

#

it would play terribly

lethal hawk
#

Alright then, enjoy your glint I guess

gentle cloud
#

man this server I stg

#

this is not a binary choice

#

we can try to come up with something better

#

it's not glint or shitty ads

#

and this all fucking means nothing if oki refuses to change shit

lethal hawk
#

Maybe he would if you came up with suggestions that actually acknowledge the intended restrictions he wants to keep on things

paper iron
#

tbf, glint is the only protection you have against targets using long range scopes at 500m+

lethal hawk
#

If you can move in ADS you can slide in and out of cover any time you want

paper iron
#

most likely you wont see them clearly

lethal hawk
#

At ranges where 8x and above are relevant, you literally have enough time to walk out of a bullet's path

gentle cloud
lethal hawk
#

Do you not understand how silly letting you perma strafe while in ADS is and how it completely removes any meaningful counterplay?

paper iron
#

not totally honestly

#

you can hit some shots here and there

gentle cloud
lethal hawk
paper iron
#

so youll never hit shots on moving targets at long ranges you say

gentle cloud
#

no wtf? you'll hit them if they move predictably

paper iron
#

is not 1 and 0

lethal hawk
paper iron
#

you preferably will hit on stationary targets

lethal hawk
#

I'm pretty sure that if you set the best sniper you can find against someone with a light build at 1km out in the open and have them dance around until they get hit, you'll wait a looong time

paper iron
#

i cant see everything as ultimate truth statement

lethal hawk
gentle cloud
#

What are you even talking about rn?

paper iron
#

zero counterplay against ads strafing enemies

#

eventually people make mistakes

lethal hawk
#

Matter of preference and something that should be playtested for feel and balance I suppose.

gentle cloud
lethal hawk
gentle cloud
#

making the delay something very small should make it unnoticeable during gameplay

lethal hawk
gentle cloud
#

man I honestly hate arguing with people on here about anything, for some reason people just feel the need to make it a fucking contest

#

I obviously mean something in between

#

also it changes literally nothing from your idea

#

you'd still be standing still

#

except in this version if you need to quickly move in and out of cover you can do so while being scoped in

#

and not arbitrarily forced into being "blind"

#

you'd just need to time your shots

lethal hawk
#

Which is not arbitrary. It's a balance choice.

#

Moving while scoped in lets you see if there's an enemy sniper on the other end and then you can just rapidly dodge.

#

If you're going to have to stand still while scoping in, then you're either hoping nobody's got you zeroed in or you made sure you found a good spot and hence are rewarded for it with your nice no glint long scope.

#

And honestly I would find that far more interesting in terms of sniper battles

#

Rn at long distances it's just poking in and out of cover dodging each other's shots because of how easy it is to see them coming

#

Then one side realises it's futile and just changes targets then eventually tries to catch the other one off guard

gentle cloud
#

how would you actually counter a sniper that's set up in a good spot?

#

you'd have to change spots to try to catch them off guard

#

or wait until they are bored and switch targets

#

cause if I have to stand there to aim my shot he'd just take my head off

#

idk about you but this sounds more boring to me

lethal hawk
#

Or... you can just use a med scope if you want to go countersniping

paper iron
#

And we go back to medium scopes

#

Lmao

gentle cloud
#

so long range scopes are still fucking crippled because of shitty game mechanics 👍

lethal hawk
#

Yes, as the devs intended

#

Except now they are crippled in a way that you can somewhat compensate for with your skill and awareness

gentle cloud
#

I'd rather have a fair glint than that honestly

#

cause I actually like using "long" range scopes in medium range

#

allows me to be more flexible with the targets I can pick

#

especially considering that "long range" covers everything between 6x to 40x

#

those absolutely do not play the same

lethal hawk
#

Yeah. And so ADS speed can also vary accordingly across zoom levels and also guns so that there's an actual reason to pick something other than the M200.

gentle cloud
#

Oh yeah the gun stats need a rework

#

those do not make a lick of sense

#

if the stats also fall under the umbrella of "dev intended" then nothing can be done

lethal hawk
#

Nah those are clearly wack lol

gentle cloud
#

fucking m200 with a huge gap in muzzle velocity and it doesn't even have a noticeable hit on bolt speed

#

I think it's clear by the stats that oki does not play snipers enough to understand and balance them

lethal hawk
#

I agree. But the fact that the M200 is as powerful as it is and hasn't really been touched lets you infer what power level he deems acceptable in terms of weapon stats.

gentle cloud
#

then forgive me if I don't give a shit about "dev intentions"

#

like currently you'd only use 2 snipers: L96 and M200

#

considering REM700 is unlocked after L96 and MSR after M200 those two are just wasted assets

lethal hawk
#

Except you should if you want your opinion to be considered? Both situations tell you something about where the boundaries are for him. The way power is distributed within those boundaries is awful but the boundaries themselves seem largely sensible, as in the M200 isn't an OP weapon by any means.

#

Also, maybe another knob to tune in scopes could be movement speed while in ADS

gentle cloud
#

M200 is "OP" cause the other snipers are a joke compared to it

lethal hawk
#

So fine, you can move, just very slowly at higher magnifications

gentle cloud
#

All I'm saying is that maybe, just maybe oki is just not knowledgeable in every aspect of FPS games like BBR

#

so he tends to make bad decisions in balancing

#

or infamously map voting

#

I think it's completely ok to criticize that

lethal hawk
#

He absolutely isn't. But just because we know his decisions are kinda dog doesn't change the fact he is still making them and so you want your suggestions to account for how likely he will be to accept them.

gentle cloud
#

so that maybe he might go "huh, maybe I was wrong"

#

eh his call

lethal hawk
gentle cloud
#

insert player count graph here

feral thistle
#

idunno bros, I think you're being a bit hard on the dev side here

#

yeah scope glint as is sucks but the entire game has a really tight dev pool, and all in all the game is still pretty fun

gentle cloud
#

Keep in mind that people have been here for different amounts of time and have played the game starting from different dates

feral thistle
#

I'd think glint is still necessary, but I'm with the general consensus of keeping the cone its visible tight, and adding a check for barriers and leaves/LOS etc.

gentle cloud
#

I lowkey hate the hints toxic positivity this community has

lethal hawk
feral thistle
#

I say glint is nessecary cause you do have to contend with 1HK capability at 500M+ when you get into the really powerful scopes. the reason its not as feasible now is cause of the glint.

gentle cloud
#

accusing people of being hard on devs when shit like map voting changes keep happening is being blind

gentle cloud
lethal hawk
gentle cloud
#

we also still have the shitty progression system that has huge gaps between weapons in certain categories

feral thistle
gentle cloud
#

these have been complained about for so long that it's quite understandable that people are losing patience

feral thistle
#

if the medium scopes were so good, then this wouldnt be an issue

lethal hawk
gentle cloud
#

that's an interesting take

#

glint does not inhibit your shot at all

#

what it does is give your position away and make you a target

#

the shot is still the same shot

feral thistle
feral thistle
gentle cloud
#

if not counter fire your target will start trying to evade

feral thistle
#

Basically, you are lowering the skill ceiling to take those 500m shots. yes, theoretically you can use mediums for it. but if thats your case than why do the long scopes matter? the extra magnification makes it significantly easier to hit those 500m shots, especially when you have all the time in the world to sit in a good hide and start cranking out shots. maps like sandy sunset have crazy long sightlines that a sniper can easily hide in without fear if not for glint.

#

You'd have a much worse time of it cause you would be extending out the standard engagement range by hundreds of meters

gentle cloud
#

muzzle flash is a thing too

feral thistle
#

easily negated with suppressors

#

down to 0, with the long one

gentle cloud
#

then... not allow them to do that?

#

or give suppressors heavy downsides like in battlefields?

lethal hawk
# feral thistle Basically, you are lowering the skill ceiling to take those 500m shots. yes, the...

if thats your case than why do the long scopes matter?
It honestly does not matter to me, I really feel quite fine using med scopes at those ranges. And I already do not need to worry about counterfire from my targets at such distances.

The reason I want this change is because 1. it just looks silly as hell 2. it makes them into an absolute noobtrap that lets me get 1200m kills that I never would have gotten just by clicking the light and 3. it would make things more interesting if I actually could take the time to find nice sightlines and start cranking out shots while also not knowing whether someone is starting to aim at me

lethal hawk
feral thistle
#

muzzle velocity nerf on supressors would be nuts ngl

gentle cloud
#

If you tried you could honestly find good alternatives to glint, it's just that glint is the laziest solution out there so devs like implementing it. In battlebit's case oki's implementation is so shit that it became the single biggest problem with snipers, to the point where long range scopes are effectively out of the game.

gentle cloud
lethal hawk
#

Good sound design that actually lets you pinpoint where shots are coming from would also help

feral thistle
gentle cloud
#

that'll probably never happen until they decide to expand the dev team

feral thistle
#

shortening the glint cone to the same principal would, imo, be the best of both worlds

gentle cloud
#

glint cone should just match your view cone

#

make it a simple warning for your targets

#

and make it not pierce the veil of reality

lethal hawk
#

I keep seeing people spawn while I'm aiming at enemies

gentle cloud
#

it's probably not aiming

#

that happens way too frequently to be true

tough meteor
#

I highly doubt anyone is compiling feedback on recon to give the devs. I recommend buildable sniper nests with textures to block out a cone of glint, because I doubt they will ever fix the glint bug.

Teammates should spawn behind you. Ideally recon should be able to toggle lock squad spawning.

shrewd zephyr
astral fox
#

yeah the support isnt going anywhere fast, or realistically threatening you

#

if they could repair their helmet faster than you could put a second bullet downrange, maybe, but theres no armor repairs

deep coral
deep coral
deep coral
ripe oak
#

i never even noticed till now but sometimes we dont even get 400 points for an assist count as kill when taking off a exo which is the default headshot bonus value

lethal hawk
#

So if all the damage is blocked I don't think you get an assist at all(?)

ripe oak
#

I get 500 assist not countrd as kill if its actual body ive noticed with the msr

#

Though since theres no method of 1 tapping exos maybe at least make it so it isnt possible to take 3 shots to kill with a boltie

deep coral
ripe oak
#

It does not if you head shot and exo then body shot it wont kill

#

Same thing happens with heavy pistols

lethal hawk
deep coral
#

Oh yeah if they also have exo armor then if the second shot is a body it won’t. If their body armor is broken it will. If you recognize they have exo body armor you can two tap them to the body

ripe oak
#

Unless they go prone

deep coral
#

Then backshot them 💦

crisp sail
crisp sail
# edgy jay yo, imagine if every player had a HUD warning every time they were near an smg u...

This, I will heavily disagree with. Metaphor folds up because there's much more interaction with the SMG user. With a recon at a few hundred meters... You hold still too long at anangle you ddin't check completely, decent chance of dying instantly.

There's not much you can do against the chris kyle roleplayer other than hide, move somewhere else, or die. DMR, maybe, but are you going to risk the instant death chance?

#

I will say that glint could be scaled based on actual FOV of the scope, so that you don't have the jank of 180 degrees it apparently is right now.

crisp sail
# lethal hawk > if thats your case than why do the long scopes matter? It honestly does not ma...

a thought that just came up to me:
Long range scope glints scale with FOV of the scope. Assured that you will not be glinting at people ouside of view.
Second, scopes come with a killflash installed, but it generates blurriness at longer ranges. So, you have a brief moment of vulnerability every time you focus in for that perfect shot at a long distance, but you do not glint until you reveal yourself.

Thoughts?

gentle cloud
#

The first one is what we have been asking for already

#

the second one sounds like planetside 2 cloak

#

I think you focus way too much on long range snipers and balancing around them

#

for one with the movement system currently in the game at really long ranges you tend to shoot at either other snipers or slow ass supports, cause other classes are able to dodge your shots

#

and the main counter for such gameplay is not to hinder snipers all around, it's to design maps with sightlines and cover

#

that effects a lot of other aspects, not just "chris kyle role players"

gentle cloud
crisp sail
#

Two things that makes that questionable for me. I don't entirely like the idea of designating areas "here is sniper alley, where the treets will be forested with sharpshooters and smoke is mandatory to jot get firing squadded. Everywhere else there is no long range threat at all."

#

I think I've managed to nail down what I actually want out of bolt action recon. Highly mobile info/sapper with some kills along the way.

gentle cloud
#

that's what I was trying to say

#

you designate is as an open area where you are vulnerable to long range fire. That being RPGs, snipers and dmrs.

#

maybe even tanks etc.

crisp sail
gentle cloud
#

map design, whether you like it or not plays a huge role in class balance

gentle cloud
#

just need to find a spot in between

crisp sail
#

true
I have some particular sticking points for what should be indestructible on some maps and what shouldn't be though
some postions vecome canalized way too easily by the lack of width to move in

what's the map with the spike in the middle of the circle?

crisp sail
astral fox
deep coral
#

Bolt action recon (with a lot of practice and map knowledge) has a fun gameplay loop at the moment and it would be a huge mistake to take away from that

#

It’s a high risk high reward class where you spend a lot of time getting to a good position, and sometimes that position works and you decimate enemy infantry from like 100-300m range

#

And sometimes you die

#

And sometimes you get to the position you wanted only for the frontline to have moved and it to not be good any more

#

It’s really fun

#

The biggest problems are just that

  1. glint scopes are unusable
  2. the class is very hard for new recons, with few teaching tools like other classes have
#

Also I fully agree that map design plays a huge part in balancing recon

#

I guess I could add a 3) the class doesn’t have much non-killing utility to the team

gentle cloud
gentle cloud
deep coral
gentle cloud
deep coral
#

Yep

#

Well, hopefully they would

#

I saw Oki’s working on spotting updates in general so mayyyybe we’ll get this

ripe oak
#

💀 i dont see how people think snipers even ones with medium range with how fast the average move speed is after a point snipers become less deadly at longer ranges

#

Bolties specifically

crisp sail
gentle cloud
#

listening to people making monkey noises gets old fast

crisp sail
#

maybe dmrs should be unlocked earlier and sniper rifles unlocked later... slightly speed up progression too...?
encourage a more active role?

gentle cloud
#

man idk why you keep going on and on about this dmr thing

#

dmrs do not "promote" a more active role, you can play the same with a sniper

#

and making sniper unlocks take even longer will make it feel even more shit than it currently is

#

the issue is progression itself in this case not what's unlocked first

ripe oak
deep coral
#

I honestly see no reason to use a DMR on recon

#

Assault can use DMRs, gets almost the same equipment, and gets weapon handling bonuses

ripe oak
#

engie can use DMRs and not have the same issue of vehicles being better snipers than recon too 💀

edgy jay
# gentle cloud This could be easily fixed if we were allowed to communicate information to the ...

while on this topic:
recon should excel at spotting and communication and be rewarded while doing so.

  • red markers created by the recon should be seen by all teammates nearby the marker or the recon (to discourage spam and prevent screen clutter).
  • additionally, enemies killed nearby these red markers should reward the spotter provided that teammates responsible for the kill can actually see that marker. it is completely reasonable that the reward for spotting is not exclusive to the recon class. however, recon should receive the most EXP when enemies nearby both markers and objectives are killed by teammates.
  • i also think that recon should also be able to spot enemy equipment as well for teammates nearby and gain additional rewards for doing so.

recon as is has no teamplay qualities and are rewarded mainly for long range kills more than anything. if they were playing for objectives or had any other weapon, they would perform better playing as any other class. so when people say that recon are useless long range campers, i would agree, but that's because this is the only thing can do that would give them any significant reward.
so the overall solution IMO is to first give them incentive to play objectives in their own unique way that is helpful to their team - by spotting enemies for other teammates attacking and defending objectives. naturally, by giving recon these new features, their equipment will receive more utility.

overall, i think the solution is to give recon a more active teamplay role, not just an active role in general.

deep coral
#

Recons does have teamplay qualities, again back to the “you probably haven’t played much recon” because counter sniping and flank prevention are very important contributions to the team that recons make, if sniping from a good position

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But most people look at the recons sitting 500+ meters away in the safe zone and say “that’s recons for you” when those are just the bad recons

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But yeah being able to spot enemies for the whole team and getting points for it are what the class needs

ripe oak
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having a challenge for beyond 800m kills up right now also isnt helping at all :x really bad idea that challenge

deep coral
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Yeah encouraging people to play badly yikes

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That’s just like so unnecessarily far, only people you’re going to be shooting are other recons holding still

astral fox
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really bad challenge

fallow surge
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GUYS ITS HAPPENING

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deep coral
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Yep there we go