Support - Feedback

[dusty plinth]

The 30-round mag negates such a metric being useful to be honest.

[flat sedge]

mixed there

I would say the 30 round mag isn't a bad thing by it's lonesome

It is just combined with the reload speed & such

[dusty plinth]

I'd say for the class of weapon it defeats it's purpose and functions more as an assault-focused weapon rather than holding and ceasing positions.

Even then the reload speed combined with overall lower agility and mobility compared to an actual assault-focused weapon make it a very mediocre assualt-focused weapon.

When the only circumstance you might actually notice a difference is at 100 meters, you might as well just pick an AR.

[zenith carbon]

i think the L86's main strength is improvised positions tbh

you can jump into a choke and gun down a bunch of them before you run away

the drum mag actually makes that worse because of how much it gimps your ability to maneuver

[dusty plinth]

That can be done better and quicker with an AR/Carbine. And you can actually hold that line of sight for a sustained period of time with an M249.

The dilemma is you get the worst of both world's with no benefit when it comes to the L86; it's not as agile or mobile as an AR/Carbine so attempting to execute evasive maneuvers puts you in a vulnerable position, and in the circumstance with an M249 where you can just peek and mow down a bunch of squads without reloading isn't as viable of an option with the L86.

[flat sedge]

mix it lost it's raw power edge it had previously

[gilded dock]

On the medic thing: swapping medics and assaults weapon selection would help tremendously. Having Smgs encourages running and gunning more than other guns do. Having the medics options be more suited to mid range would help keep medics with the group more. See planetside, where the medics had guns that were specifically suited for accurate mid-range combat, not only that, but heavy assaults tended to be in the same location with the same range.

[fierce dawn]

P90 absolutely crushes it at "flank and bail" with nearly double the ammo, a much faster reload, and a literal speed boost.

support is a very static class by design since you're walking around with speed penalties no matter what you do

[zenith carbon]

look man i'm not saying it's the best at its job (and it sure as hell ain't)
i'm just saying that's the best it does atm

[fierce dawn]

i just love me ultimax, love holdin lanes, 'ate recon. simple as.

[meager cypress]

that boat sailed 3 months ago, at this point most of the people playing are just doing so because medic does everything

[dusty plinth]

But that just goes to show how pointless using it is; LMG best used as an AR but is worse than an AR at being an AR.

[meager cypress]

in a game with near instant TTK with the iffy netcode like 90% of the guns are pointless

its fine

[dusty plinth]

I second this; Combat Medics tend to only carry standard-issue weaponry, if anything Engineers should be the only ones carrying SMG's and PDW's.

[velvet wing]

Regardless of realism. Swapping medic weapons won't fix the problems with them, just like with supports

Supports are getting there though at least

[meager salmon]

it would certainly help tho. Medic already has a higher base movement speed, that should eliminate the need for them to have SMGs for their inherent speed

[dusty plinth]

It's more so the combination rather than the individual weapons themselves.

[rain crown]

This is like the third time I’m telling you guys dmrs don’t fit support either. They just don’t. Yes support has a dire lack of weapon options right now, but giving them dmrs as a band-aid fix is not the solution. As shitty as it sounds, we just have to wait. Fully half of the known upcoming weapons (6/12) are for support.

[velvet wing]

I think they do smh

I probably just want them because they're good lol. But support is so slow I just wanna hunker down in one place. So gimme anything to do that - dmrs or not

[rain crown]

Support is a machine gunner. That’s what they are in this game. You are effective in combat by laying down a huge amount of fire in a specific area.

A DMR is a marksman weapon. They are focused on precise shots at longer range, not filling an area with bullets.

I want support to have more guns too but DMRs do not fit the class.

[velvet wing]

It feels like you're focused on a version/concept of support in your head

[fierce dawn]

battle rifles for support then

🙂

[livid carbon]

maybe fix lsws?

[velvet wing]

For me, support means supporting pushes, supporting your team, supporting fire, whatever. Dmrs fit into that for me. I've always said BRs would fit great

[livid carbon]

there you got your more accurate, less mg-y gun

[dusty plinth]

He really isn't.

"Support" is more often than not a combination of Automatic Rifleman and Machine Gunner classes.

[rain crown]

I’d argue you’re the one doing that by focusing too much on the name “support.” Isn’t engineer doing “support” by taking out vehicles so the team can push? Isn’t a recon doing “support” by killing enemies who are dug in to defensive positions so the team can push? Isn’t a medic doing “support” by reviving downed players to sustain manpower for a team push?

Support in this game happens to be the name of a class because it’s what fits best. When it comes to combat, they are a machine gunner. They are focused on volume of fire in this game. That’s their whole deal.

I’m a little unsure about the tone of this so I want to clarify I don’t intend to come across as hostile.

[dusty plinth]

Thus the class primarily focusing on LMG's and GPMG's makes perfect sense.

[velvet wing]

Honestly they should rename it to machine gunner imo. I've always thought support was a misnomer personally.

But regardless, I just think dmrs fit the current playstyle of the class, but if they adjust support a bit more and add more options to lmgs and the other guns it's got it'd probably be fine

I don't think we should get dmrs over other stuff, but I think at the current moment they would fit reasonably well? It's just weird that every other class gets options shared between classes but support doesn't at all I think as well.

Either or, I wouldn't care if it got them or not regardless, I just think it would be fun

[gilded canopy]

That doesnt fucking work and anyone who mains support knows that

The concept of "support shines with capacity of fire" its a joke, in this game with this low TTK, as soon as support starts shooting, you get clapped back, support is not a tank, so please stop thinking that we can work like one

[rain crown]

Never said anything about being a tank.

Having a high volume of fire does not mean “stand there and get shot”

[gilded canopy]

The awnser is not "just move", the core concept of making the advantage of support to be "volume of fire" doesn't work in-game

Would love that concept, and in BF BC2 the LMG's does exactly that, but in this game, it just doesnt work, you lose in close range because people run faster and have higher dps than you, lose in mid-range because people have weapons with lower recoil than you, and lose in far-range because you absolutly can't manage the recoil of LMG's that far, and single/spray makes little to no damage that far away

There is no place in this game for using the LMG's right now besides just hip-firing in close quarters while hoping that you can land the shots :b

[rain crown]

I’m not trying to say the answer is “just move” because it’s obviously not. There is a lot wrong with support right now, and I’d love to see it fixed. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here.

What I disagree with is the idea of putting dmrs on a class they don’t fit with whatsoever.

It just doesn’t make any sense at all. Slapping dmrs onto support for the sake of weapon variety is a bad idea.

[dusty plinth]

Not be be edgy but this sounds like a personal skill problem; I agree that this game has horrible balancing issues and probably has one of the worst overall implementations of LMG's relative to other weapons, but I don't have issue taking care of people at medium and longer distances with the M249 and U100, the M249's recoil does eventually get a bit out of hand if you plan on sustaining fire over long distances, however when you do hit those shots because of the higher RoF it kills quite quickly, as for the Ultimax, hitting enemies from 80+ meters away going full auto is quite easy. and frankly something this weapon excess at over all others.

[gilded canopy]

Really im not having a lot of issues with hitting long-range shots, mostly because i like to play that way with support, but i do think that support has a big disadvantage in every situation that i mentioned and its kinda shitty that it doesnt fit anywhere :(

Fixing the bipod would help a lot

[dusty plinth]

I do agree that although the LMG's are competitive at medium-long range that overall they're still disadvantaged.

Damage output and all-round accuracy stats are what LMG's and especially GPMG's excel at which in most games now-a-days seem to overlook.

[gilded canopy]

Its not good also that the packet loss in this game is awful, i feel like everyone one-shots me and i have to spend half a mag for everyone .-.

[velvet wing]

Gotta remember, that's probably more the tick rate. If a gun kills in 3 bullets and fires super fast it's going to feel instant online in general. Just how this stuff is

Fixing the bipod should happen sooner plz

[woven fossil]

I cant think of any other game where the big dude with tons of armor and the big machine gun is at a disadvantage to a normal smg

[flat sedge]

that and assault (The name gives away they are to literally assault positions)

[flat sedge]

medic's current strengths I suppose are

1. Self healing (Best in game and best sustain by that)
2. One of the best weapon selections in the game
3. Fast
4. High capacity for aggression

[flat sedge]

just give Support battle rifles at this rate

[velvet wing]

Just give supports dmrs

But give them really big mags

Like really long

Like 100 dmr rounds

[flat sedge]

part of the idenity is MG, another is defensive play, Don't pull a destiny 2 and go Titans are only punchers & not include the super soldiers & such

[rain crown]

Titans are not super soldiers though

[rain crown]

And battle rifles don’t fit either.

[velvet wing]

Ok, now we just can't make em happy

[flat sedge]

They were originally based on the super soldier fantasy along with others

They weren't just "Haha I punch thing"

But to the point

[rain crown]

No they weren’t. I’ve been playing Destiny since 2014. That’s not what they are.

[flat sedge]

Battle rifles can fit the defensive idea

[dusty plinth]

Perhaps for the sake of gameplay, though SMG's and PDW's aren't commonly carried by anti-infantry and are more so allocated to Special Forces and Vehicular/Aircraft crew, hence why they tend ot be associated with Engineer classes in video games.

[rain crown]

So can a sniper rifle or an smg.

[flat sedge]

I feel SMG fits a aggressor more than defensive

Sniper I can see

[dusty plinth]

That's silly.

[flat sedge]

but Battle rifle fits a heavy weapon apporch as well

[velvet wing]

https://tenor.com/view/you-dont-gotta-make-fun-of-me-but-yes-berger-lizzie-secret-headquarters-you-dont-have-to-laugh-at-me-gif-26484718

[woven fossil]

Heres a simple pro con list for this class
Pro
-most armor
-most ammo
-most grenades
-immune to most sniper headshots
-can build instantly
-can build hesco walls

Cons
-bad TTKs
-slow ads speed
-slow reloads
-slow running
-slow draw speeds
-lowest XP/min of any class, hardest to reach top leaderboard with
-slowest when helmet breaks
-least amount of weapon options
-oh and did I mention he's slow as hell

[rain crown]

What you’re looking for is a gpmg chambered in a full power cartridge. Not a battle rifle.

[velvet wing]

What can support have

Lmgs and hmgs right

No dmrs

[dusty plinth]

GPMG's will most likely be nerfed or hampered in this game.

[woven fossil]

give support a rotary grenade launcher

[rain crown]

I hope not.

[flat sedge]

Just give us a buildable Mk 19 as well

[velvet wing]

Based

[flat sedge]

(looks at the current lineup of LMGs & such)

[rain crown]

What about them?

[velvet wing]

So we're getting the m60

[dusty plinth]

Logically the M60 should out damage and outrange every DMR but that certainly won't happen.

[velvet wing]

Has anything else been confirmed?

[woven fossil]

a lot of leaked skins and one more supporterpack LMG

[rain crown]

Equal damage to the mk14 and scar but definitely not more than the dmrs and certainly not more range.

[flat sedge]

side note the GDC 2013 panel mentioned influences of MC & Term as two example

[velvet wing]

I'm just asking, what else would fit the support class? We've got the mg36 and the l86 right?

[rain crown]

Not trying to sound rude but I genuinely have no clue what you’re referring to with those acronyms or what the context is

[velvet wing]

Game dev conference

[rain crown]

Support is getting more guns.

[flat sedge]

Term as in terminator & MC = master chief for the imspirations

[flat sedge]

we should've already gotten a new one in honesty

[velvet wing]

Yee, what guns and what more will fit off that. I'm asking because I don't know 💀

[dusty plinth]

The M60 actually has a effective firing range of 1,100 meters and maximum range of 3,200 meters, that's double most DMR's and still around 50% higher than the upper-tier ranges of DMR's.

[flat sedge]

we have 4x less guns than the AR category

we got less guns than the DMR

[rain crown]

6 of the 12 known upcoming weapons are for support, thankfully.

[velvet wing]

Is there a graphic or list somewhere?

I only know about the m60

[flat sedge]

But yea I feel Bob you are viewing support as ONLY a Machine gunner and not as defensive powerhouse as well

where they get bonuses to making defenses as a example of the latter

[dusty plinth]

The M60 has higher muzzle velocity as well which would generally equate to higher penetration.

[flat sedge]

they aren't only a MGer

so open thou view up to include defensive play in general rather than just "MG goes brrrrr"

[rain crown]

The M60 has a 22 inch barrel and it fires 7.62x51. The M110, for instance, also fires 7.62x51 and has a 20 inch barrel. While that is somewhat shorter, the M110 is also firing match ammunition rather than standard ball ammunition, and may well be loaded to a higher pressure as well.

[velvet wing]

🤷‍♂️

[dusty plinth]

The M110 is in a rather special position, it is classified as a Sniper however it can be configred to perform more closely to a DMR, that being said, even it tends to have lower effective and maximum ranges as well as muzzle velocity compared to the M60; that slight barrel increase would allow allow for slightly better penetration.

Not to mention the M60 having the option to be equiped with armor-piercing rounds- though that in itself is another discussion.

I don't see Battle Bit implimenting varying ammo types unfortunately.

[rain crown]

Yeah, it would be cool but I’d be surprised.

You make good points though

I guess it really comes down to balancing

An M60 firing bullets that do 51 damage each would be fucking insane

[woven fossil]

doesnt matter if its mounted or hand held I need this weapon in BBR

[velvet wing]

Mounting up a nest and bipods working would be neat

I still think support getting roller skates would work, that's just me though

[fierce dawn]

do what battlefield did and make the medic and assault the same class

it wont fix any balance issues but at least theyll be named right

[flat sedge]

Which BF?

[fierce dawn]

wasnt that bf4?

[flat sedge]

because BF1 had assault,medic,support & recon

BF5 had the same idea

BF2042 have assault,engineer, Support & recon

(Support being a combo of medic mainly with some support)

also personally I would just reduce the medic's self healing strength a good bit

(currently medic just outshines assaults due to their self heal and having pretty much anything important assault has)

(only lacking DMRs,and the small ammo kit mainly)

[zenith carbon]

medic should lose some of its weapon classes too tbh

probably the dmrs and smgs (they can keep the pdws)

[flat sedge]

pretty sure they already don't have DMRs

[zenith carbon]

wait i'm stupid

[flat sedge]

personally I would say swap PDWs, and SMGs for DMRs

so 3 weapon categories, setup for medium range

so jack of all trades,master of none

Allows them to assist anyone in their squad (minus AV duty I suppose)

[zenith carbon]

ngl there's a part of me that's for striking every class that isn't assault's access to more than one suite of weapons (support the lmgs and lsgs, recon the dmrs and snipers, engineers the smgs, medic the pdws)

[flat sedge]

Personally here I just want every class to have a niche they can do

Assault being CQC focused with some medium range potentional possibly

Support being more centered on defensive and medium range play

Recon doing great at long range while also having some Close to medium range

[weary fog]

I think having most of the buildings be support exclusive

[flat sedge]

And medic being a jack of all trades master of none, able to help anyone but never truly the best in anything

[weary fog]

like any class can throw up a barricade

but only support can really build

[flat sedge]

Personally I don't mind several basic structures being non support exclusive

[weary fog]

issue is, is that once that building is up, you can swap classes

[flat sedge]

But I would say add advanced constructables like a tripod standing MG

These being support only

some other nicities could be constructables for healing,ammo resupply & armor repair

[flat sedge]

equally it stands to reason people will always swap to do a task such as destroy a tank

unless you prevent mid round class swaps

[weary fog]

that is true, but once said tank is destroyed they swap back to preferred class or just keep rolling engy because they can have SMG's

and RPGs

at least until they die

a support only structure, once its built, is semi-permanent until destroyed or deconstructed

[heavy sage]

guns take so long to ads that i end up getting killed 3 times over before i am able to fire once

armor is fucking useless without the ability to repair it

class is way to slow in general

shit class and oki is seeming to just ignore it

[zenith carbon]

wonder if this game couldn't do without a role cap ngl

or at least it's worth a try

[weary fog]

devs gave community server owners the ability to do that, might just be recon limits tho

[zenith carbon]

e.g. in a game 20% recon, 30% assault, 10% medics, 20% engi, 20% support

[gilded dock]

So far I know the M60 and either the RPD or RPK are confirmed

Supposedly the MG3?

[zenith carbon]

it's just. too easy to switch classes

i know, player ease and all that but like; the current system is just call of duty ground war

[gilded dock]

Spawn system rework would probably help immensely with a lot of these problems

Being able to chase a tank and then spawn 4 tandem engys isn't great

[zenith carbon]

definitely, and it'll also go a long way to forcing players to think twice about their class as opposed to just switch and spawn

[stark breach]

why tf is building not allowed in frontline?

one of the only things this class does well

and its useless in over half the game modes

[dusty plinth]

Honestly I'd say it would be pretty balanced.

The M60 has quite a high amount of dispersion as well as muzzle climb/drift, additionally it's weight would heavily dampen it's mobility and agility factors, and a rate of fire of 550 RPM would still allow it to be disadvantaged against most other weapons in a CQB scenario but it would be a mid-long range monster.

Pretty much like what the RAAL MG is in MWII.

[woeful linden]

Thing is, we've been down this road in other FPS games.
In Black Ops 1, the M60 was a TWO SHOT KILL in a game where most guns were 3-4 or 4-5 shots to kill, and guess what?
It wasn't OP. It was NOT OP. People still didn't use that shit that much.

What gun DID people use in BO1? The FAMAS, a 3-4 shot kill weapon @ 937 rpm.

[flat sedge]

same idea in COD 4

two taps

[woeful linden]

Right. People acting like it's insane that the M110 is a 2 shot kill, like it'd be insane if an M60 2 shot kill at 500 rpm was put in this game.
The history is there, there have been other FPS games, and from what I've seen they usually don't end up as an issue.

Shit handling (things like ADS speed, 'sprint-out/stop' speed, movement speed, etc) and low RPM are disproportionally hurtful stats to have on a gun. BTK and TTK are not as important as you might imagine.

This is the reason why the top players in shooters with modern guns gravitate towards SMGs and all-rounder ARs which lean slightly harder on the RoF than other stats.

[dry bobcat]

They choose the "low-skill-needed" weapons with easy-to-handle recoil!

[flat sedge]

I will say this, I just want a nice high recoil LMG that has a above average TTK (Okay I thought through this sentence & it sounds dumb, by above average TTK to clarify I meant a better than average TTK)

[woeful linden]

Ironically, they are the ones with most skill who'd theoretically get the most use out of the supposedly 'high skill cap weapon design' which thinks low RoF high damage is a favorable stat spread to have.

Turns out, they're only human after all. Things can go wrong. Recoil cannot be perfectly controlled, their aim is not godlike, they are punished for getting shot first due weapon flinch and their low RPM gun can't save them.

I'll tell you how to balance the 2 shot kill 500 RoF M60.
High horizontal recoil, slow ADS, slow sprint-stop, slow movespeed. I guarantee you top players will not be switching to Support for it.

[heavy sage]

l86 has decent TTK

I would really like to see an aug hbar for support

[dusty plinth]

To be fair, back then the only had to focus on balance for 6v6, now their cash cow is Warzone which LMG's dominate in due to range and armor widening the skill gap.

I swear the MK9 Bruen was nerfed multiple times.

[zenith carbon]

Can confirm it was, it became nearly unusable in regular mp

The handling got so bad it could barely navigate anything short of mounting and waiting

And forget dealing with multiple targets

[fierce dawn]

its in the files isnt it

one of the many upcoming support guns

[heavy sage]

I think ur right yeah

[fierce dawn]

yeah found the list

AN-94, FN F2000, G3, MK47, MPX, CBJ-MS, M60, MG3, MG5, QJY-201, AUG HBAR, RPK16, FN 57, M93R

lots of goodies for support on there, hope the class is in a good place so everyone can enjoy them

[woven fossil]

This is from a game of 127s on Zalfibay or whatever the new map name is called. Top leaderboard both teams Can you spot the problem in this image

that picture was taken as the game was ending

Support not only is underpowered but the class actively slows your progression.

[fierce dawn]

which mode was it

[woven fossil]

That shouldnt matter

[fierce dawn]

gonna just assume conq

bc its always conq

[woven fossil]

1 support out of all thoose players

Is a problem

[fierce dawn]

zalfi is not support friendly

its pretty rough

[woven fossil]

still for it to be this heavily biased is complete failure of class balance

[fierce dawn]

not gonna hear me saying otherwise

Support is in a bad spot rn, much as I love my big guns

[woven fossil]

I usually try to spread positive criticism and helpful feedback but Oki really dropped the ball on Support and class balancing in general. Even with the extra xp boosts from trophies and being able to spam grenades support is just slow on literally everything the class does, and is barely rewarded for doing its job which is defense and laying down fire

support is so bad to the point that playing medic is like toggling on easy difficulty

its like the stupid anime joke of "take off the training weights and youll be more powerful" support literally holds the player back its such an over limiting class

[fierce dawn]

its identity is intrinsically tied to armor, which is not in a fun place rn

[woven fossil]

yeah the tradeoff should be slow as f*ck for superior defense and/or firepower. but both of those kind of suck really badly

[fierce dawn]

running into two fully Exo'd up supports ought to be terrifying, not "lol how fast can i aim my SMG at their toes"

[flat sedge]

(most of support guns do average dps or lower ; No comment on armor)

[woven fossil]

exactly. this is the only fps game I can even think of where a huge machine gun is arguably the smallest threat

or at least not intimidating

[fierce dawn]

im hoping some of the unreleased guns help plug the hole of "close up meatgrinder"

[woven fossil]

coming across a horde of 4-10 enemies laying down I shouldnt think to myself "man i wish I had an smg/pdw I wouldve gotten more of them by spraying before they got me"

[shell hound]

EXO armor should, in the current state, give the MGs a stability boost and decrease the recoil values by a quarter (25%) for ALL the MGs. You're already heavy and slow AF, the armor is only a benefit against slow firing weapons IF hit and doesn't last more than a second in any extended fight.... it needs something to lessen the utter failure to rectify issues that were already prevalent to the class in the playtests and became ridiculous in launch.

[paper vector]

No, it doesn’t. All classes have the same base move speed

It is just differences in equipment that determine how fast they will move

[paper vector]

That’s a good idea that I haven’t heard yet. It makes sense for being heavier to mitigate recoil somewhat.

[still ledge]

Funny how the majority are medics

I remember seeing a rare sight of 4 supports in my squad

[woeful linden]

Interesting

[tight narwhal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[gilded canopy]

damn that would be awesome and never heard that feed

make support accurate in midrange and slow, so you literally are built to defend and be the killing zone that support should be

[dusty plinth]

Also Fix Bipod.

[livid carbon]

fix bipod and bring scorpion to assault.

[fierce dawn]

bipod scorpion for assault

[livid carbon]

reeee anything at this point tbh

but bipod scorp sounds like mg3 xD

[royal hare]

this would also help with using extended mags on lsw

[brittle tide]

Not being able to build fortifications in objective zones feels like it defeats the purpose of the whole mechanic (sorry if this is the wrong thread, couldnt find a fortifications thread)

[flat sedge]

aye fair, support's trait is instant building

[brittle tide]

Yeah i meant that its sad to see on-objective fortifications for every class but i could not find the specific thread for fortifications

[flat sedge]

Well I am still annoyed at how useless barbed wire is

[meager salmon]

assault gadget; crowbar. required to un-build enemy barbed wire, and takes a while still

[flat sedge]

being honest I would be up for that or barbed wirer cutters if they buffed the wire to not be deconable normally by the enemy

[zenith carbon]

Discovering how easy it was to circumvent it was depressing

[flat sedge]

It is effectively just, jump

[zenith carbon]

Not least difficult to build consistently but 5 seconds of holding down one button causes it to be deconed

[flat sedge]

Sprint jumping (the motion you would think is most hampered if balanced around slowing people down) is the most effective way to bypass it

mix in they removed it's damage effect so you have 0 reason to really avoid it

[meager salmon]

sprint jumping into barbed wire should just force ragdoll

[zenith carbon]

Or just freeze you there till you die or someone digs you out

[meager salmon]

i would die if i saw people just repeatedly throw their ragdoll'd bodies through barbed wire into a hallway only to get executed while ragdolled on the floor

[zenith carbon]

Seriously though what even is the rationale behind no fortifications on objs

[meager salmon]

i dont think oki plays support. hell, im not really sure if he plays anything other than SMG medic

[zenith carbon]

I’d understand if objs were like, small, restricted areas; but otherwise it just renders internal defence pain

[meager salmon]

he needs another developer STATt, largely to reduce the insane workload he has, but also to get some different perspectives for balancing things

there is practically zero hope for recon and support to get consistently properly-balanced weapons, perks, and gadgets if there is a total lack of player-perspective from the developer side of things

[zenith carbon]

I went back to call of duty yesterday after a particularly awful match on tensa and it just struck me, like, just how utterly badly designed the inf experience in battlebit is

It’s not even that ‘smg medic meta is really fun’, it’s just that it’s the only viable way to play after a little while

[flat sedge]

he is buffing his playstyle & class

bandage changes were 100% benefitial to the medic

the SMG nerfs also came soon after with a F2000 (similar to a SMG in a way)

[zenith carbon]

If i want to play coked up arcade shooter there are a dozen games with much more intentional and better-balanced arcade shooting; bbr doesn’t even do that right, it just makes it the only thing that works

[meager salmon]

yep. BBR has one of the worst cases of "funnel-shaped game balance" where the game practically funnels you into choosing from a very select few weapons and loadouts to be competitive

[flat sedge]

Support & defensive tactics have been weakened

[zenith carbon]

Yeah

[flat sedge]

vehicles are fairly weak & easy to be destroyed

[meager salmon]

nah

C4 is just fucking stupid

[zenith carbon]

Ironically you can have more success with lmgs and defensive tactics in the iconic no one has a brain gun game call of duty

[flat sedge]

Medic otherwise still has majority of assault's gear that matters & a unlimited self heal that beats every heal in the game period

only lack are DMRs but even the AR catergory makes up for that

[meager salmon]

only engi should have it, it should not be spammable, and it should be mainly for building destruction, not for vehicle destruction

[zenith carbon]

Right now i can go to cod and secure 20-8 playing decent positions on tightly designed maps in 10 minutes whereas in BBR i’m playing 30 minutes to maybe get 15-10, punctuated by monotonous walking, being outpaced by everyone else, and having zero effective combat power

[meager salmon]

tangent; the anti-vehicle mine nerf to build destruction sucks. its just a "no fun allowed" change imo

[flat sedge]

otherwise body armor is still weak (a place where medic lacks) which enhances the current meta even more

[meager salmon]

man, youre making me wanna boot up BF2042 and just walk around hip-firing my LMG lol

[zenith carbon]

Fuck man, this game made me go back to BFV and salivate over a functional support experience

[flat sedge]

try BF1 , Support in that game is Nice

[meager salmon]

people dont move at mach 2 in BF2042 and actually have inertia, so spraying an LMG fuckin works. TAKE NOTES, OKI

[zenith carbon]

Seriously the game would change so much if player movement was restricted even mildly

[flat sedge]

But to the point, it feels like okri is taking notes from Bungie on D2 in terms of buffing his own playstyle while hampering others that challenge it after a bit

(example of a change from D2, Nerfing the titan exotic armor that lets you bounce back stuff when sliding to now cost a full ability charge, never been great or good hardly beside in certain situtions)

[meager salmon]

not only restricted, but just finished. Animations are janky at the best of times, down-right detrimental to your ability to shoot someone at the worst of times. theres zero inertia. movement speed is just way too fast on the fast-end of the spectrum. Vaulting needs a W-key input to actually activate, etc etc etc

[flat sedge]

forgot lean is pretty much if not instant as a example from the lean spam bit

where it instantly changes where your head hitbox is , in less than a blink of a eye

[meager salmon]

the number of times I want to jump to get a peek over something and forget that will instead vault, killing me... well, it doesnt happen any more, but only because it was a very hard-learned lesson

[flat sedge]

(To clarify I mean pretty much teleporting your head to opposite sides of the lean)

[zenith carbon]

Also to add to this:

MWII is a game with bad design. It tries to achieve slower and more tactical gameplay but doesn’t deal with the fundamental incentives that push players towards run and gun, while having a number of puzzling design choices (e.g. the minimap) that make the overall experience enjoyable but puzzling

BBR is a game without design. It doesn’t have any goals aside from vibes atm

[meager salmon]

yeah, leaning is still a bit wonky to shoot at, but the lean spam nerf helped so tremendously much, i think its not as high priority anymore

[flat sedge]

Personally I would still say remove the delay they have now & add a actual animation so it is a gradual movement compared to instant teleport

[meager salmon]

it would help a LOT of oki would just remove the ability to double-bind

[zenith carbon]

So much of BBR is seemingly designed around the personal comfort of a small subset of its playerbase and it’s annoying

[flat sedge]

being honest Number

macros

I have a script for EDF5 to swap WASD & Arrows

It could easily just be made to hit both buttons on X button press

than we are back at same issue

[meager salmon]

im sure better anti-cheat systems (Fuck EAC) would be able to detect macros to a certain degree, no?

[flat sedge]

Depends

could do a variable delay even to make it look realistic

[meager salmon]

then make macros a slamdunk temp ban if found guilty

[flat sedge]

And now we come to other issues

[zenith carbon]

also zero inertia is fucking infuriating
i get into a point blank fight and it's just who can navigate the loopy movement with their magazine first

[flat sedge]

like how enter is unable to be bound

which requires a macro/script to change

[zenith carbon]

you don't slow down, you just turn into zippy the speedster

[meager salmon]

what would you require rebinding enter for?

[flat sedge]

I use arrow keys

your f is my enter

or e

I am personally not a big fan of blanket macro nerfs

[meager salmon]

intense 2008 Roblox flashbacks

[flat sedge]

(been using arrows since around 2006)

but to the point

The way to fix those types of spams

is simply add a animation so it isn't instant

the reason lean spam was strong was being a instant teleport of the head from one side of the body to the other

and being able to do it Rapidly

essentially dodge tank logic

[meager salmon]

true, but you can throw that on top of the lean spam nerf. theres no reason to undo any part of that nerf, because it all works really well and does exactly what its supposed to, nothing more

[flat sedge]

but anyhow through

it does feel like if Okri is a smg combatdic (combat medic) it stands to reason he is buffing his playstyle/nerfing the counters

[meager salmon]

aye. perhaps just out of lack of experience with ignoring his own biases when balancing as a dev. i have no reason at this stage to think hes doing it actively maliciously

[zenith carbon]

maybe, but in the grand scheme of things that he's a medic and likes it is kinda irrelevant
the part that matters is that the current balancing is just. bad

it wouldn't be any better (though dramatically more puzzling) if the m249 was his beloved

[flat sedge]

Aye I don't disagree with that

my annoyace is he is giving off a vibe I heavily dislike, where a dev will not think about any bias they may have & is giving off the feeling he is buffing his favorite while nerfing opposition

[zenith carbon]

no disagreement there

[flat sedge]

I will equally say, I don't desire okri to start flavoring support only & let the others rot, just that support gets some attention & loving care now & again

and that the next weapon patch includes at least a single LMG and/or LSG (Preferably a rank 0 LMG for the new guys)

[woven fossil]

I say it as a joke but a rotary grenade launcher would be great fun for support. Even if it's designed to destroy built structures instead of people that'd be a massively useful tool

[flat sedge]

Agreed there

Could also add a emplaced MK 19 so support's defenses in hallway would be

Interesting

[tepid jolt]

not being able to build on objectives feels terrible

[lethal river]

Yea i never really understood the spawn build ban tbh it's insanely annoying

[fierce dawn]

i get why for like, CTF but then the exclusion zone seems to move with the flag and its weird as hell

[empty acorn]

Day 5 of asking for support to have PDWs 😍

[rain crown]

oh my god no

[royal hare]

ill take any weapon at this point

[rain crown]

support is about to get 6 new guns

[shell hound]

I'll believe that when they are in Players' hands.

[livid carbon]

in about, 4-8 months at this rate?

[still ledge]

Not before the other classes gets the new weapons

Like idk why we got an ar and an dmr first

[empty acorn]

Yes, LMGs, which a lot of us are sick of lugging around the battlefield. PDWs would make support so much more bearable and fun. No dmrs, fuck those.

[rain crown]

Pdws don’t make sense for support either though

Or at least not much

[weary garden]

just about

[woven fossil]

We'll get 2 LMGs before November, maybe an LSW too if we're lucky

unless Oki is doing crazy behind the scenes stuff and has finished most the leaked guns but I doubt that

[slender surge]

Any chance there is building options for support to lean into the building gameplay further than other classes? Creating fortifications is fun and everyone loves a good FORT!!! @left owl

[nimble ice]

dunno if this had been sujested before, but maybe let Supports pick up supply crates back? don't refill them, just allow to pick up. same as Medics can pick up their medkits. feels bad when you've accidentally dropped it or dropped and no one used.

[flat sedge]

in the future

not about as in soon

[flat sedge]

possibly, if he doesn't leave those for last

[flat sedge]

isn't that already the case to a degree?

(gets access to barbed wire + doubled hesco & instant build + faster construct & decon speeds)

[rain crown]

About to as in will be in an upcoming update.

[flat sedge]

So upcoming as this upcoming (aka next I guess major update)

[rain crown]

Upcoming as in they are currently being worked on and aren’t just planned

[flat sedge]

So could be 4-8 months at best

[rain crown]

No lol why would it be minimum 4 months

[weary garden]

Let's give them leeway for dropping 5 guns at EA. 3 months for 2 new ARs, let's say that took only 3 weeks per weapon to be generous and there were other reasons for delay. That's 3 weeks per weapon, meaning another month and a half for 2 new weapons, not guaranteeing they're for support, with 6 weapons making 4 and a half months, assuming no other weapons get released

[rain crown]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-team-hahaha-gif-18072160

[zenith carbon]

that was my reaction trying to comprehend it so glad i'm not alone

[meager salmon]

we have witnessed a stroke

[weary fog]

Its like he had 20 thoughts all fighting to get typed at once

[meager salmon]

wdym "like". im 99% sure thats exactly what happened

[weary garden]

Ok

Assume it takes 3 weeks to make gun

[meager salmon]

really bold assumption right off the bat

[weary garden]

We can go higher

3 weeks is generous

[meager salmon]

its moreso that you cant just extrapolate "3 weeks" out when talking about human beings doing work

[weary garden]

Ur right

[meager salmon]

especially when theres currently only 1 art dev and only 1 main dev. they cant focus on just guns at the expense of all else

[weary garden]

So assume 3 months

[meager salmon]

much safer assumption

[weary garden]

Then for all 6 weapons to be release, assuming they are all back to back support guns, we get our full arsenal in a year and a half

👍

[meager salmon]

hopefully it wont take quite that long, but yeah more or less. especially since the game as a whole will likely have expanded quite a bit by then

[lethal river]

Not gonna stop you from calculating the weeks it takes to release something, but in the end it's all speculation and it'll be released/announced whenever the devs are ready

But nah surely tommorow 😎😭

[meager salmon]

true, but speculation is all we can do at this juncture

[lethal river]

Yea i getcha

We're all waitin

[woeful linden]

My man was calculating

[gilded canopy]

someone called me?

[rain crown]

What the fuck are you talking about

Just wondering

[flat sedge]

effectively Diego said it took them 3 months for two new guns (So 1 and a half month per gun at this rate)

[royal hare]

the breaking bad gif you used said Jesse. there name is Jessie it was a joke

[rain crown]

I know. In that gif Walter says to Jesse “Jesse what the fuck are you talking about” so I said that to this Jesse as well

[royal hare]

gotcha my bad lol

[tropic oxide]

I desperatly wish Support had some better weapon options; dont get me wrong, 3 of the 4 guns we have are great (L86 is my most used gun) but I feel like we really just need access to something else, be it AR's or DMR's. The lack of weapon options, especially with the p90 and HK416 the way they are, is the only thing keeping me from maining the class.

[fierce dawn]

im gonna disagree: being forced into a move speed penalty no matter what you do with your armor, and then eating another one when you equip your gun really sucks

you really feel the lack of mobility which im sure is by design, but doesnt mesh with how the game is played regardless of design intent

[livid carbon]

l86 got butchered, m249 is a bad lmg, mg36 is just... the only decent gun is the ultimax, it actually does its job of suppressive fire...

[flat sedge]

I'll be honest that is due to a mix of he lacks bite & he lack durability, all his guns deal average or lower DPS to my knowledge and mix in the slower reaction times, he kinda has a all round bad setup currently

if you restrict mobility, they need either Good damage to toss back, good durability or both

(Look at TF2 heavy as a example, compared to the rest of the TF2 characters he is the slowest,one tappable by snipers, takes time to get his gun readied to fire but when he is setup in his preferred locations he becomes FAR more scary)

[still ledge]

You mean like without attachment?
Because i dont see why l86 and m249 are bad

The one i keep geting dissatisfied or just neutral is with the mg36 even with attachments

Hell i still keep using the l86 and m249 when i want to play more close range

[fierce dawn]

yeah, if you could shoot a heavy in the arm and deal with effectively Scout hp he'd really just not function

[still ledge]

Both are really far games when it comes to mechanic and stuff
But you can take the ideia of being more about position and being aware of the surrounding to be the skill of the class

And make his weapons less forgiving(more ammo, magazines) and his survivability stronger(being able to get the armour back and etc)

oversimplified but it can get somewhere

[flat sedge]

again was using the TF2 heavy as how Support wants to work effectively

[still ledge]

It is a good example though

[flat sedge]

Since they both share similar weaknesses

but support lacks the strength to make up for them

[still ledge]

But just that some stuff in battlebit really makes the things heavy is good weaker since how everyone plays medic and assault on crack

Or just that holding a choke is more difficult

So it has to be played around that

[livid carbon]

l86 can no longer 3sk which was its only redeeming quality otherwise it's just a bad ar and the m249 is just an m4 with worse recoil and thus less range which is what you want on an lmg (oriented class), medium to long range supportive or suppressive fire, rn it's just depressive fire for the m249
only gun that's capable of medium to long range engagements without being a waste of bullets and time is the ultimax, 1 out of 4 guns on a class works and it's the one unlocked at lvl 100...
we'll get more support guns but i honestly have no hope for this class atm

[flat sedge]

mix in the fact the MG36 is weaker compared to it's peers beside at longer ranges (like 75-101 meters)

[livid carbon]

oh ye i forgor, literal garbage to the point i didn't even mention it 💀

[flat sedge]

(as in okri decided it was okay for the other 3 tap weapons to have a faster fire rate but decided against the MG36 having the same fire rate & chose lower)

[still ledge]

With l86 i see the problem, i think giving it more ammo and making larger magazines just dont make the gun worse would be better to make it more viable

[flat sedge]

L86 wise bigger base magazines would be nice

I am still of the opinion support should get a more universal passive addition of reduced downsides from extended magazines & such across his guns

[still ledge]

With mg249 i quite dont see it that much
For it to be a worse m4(with i heard alot of people say is a good ar) should be something good than bad
Even more that support dont have acces to AR and weapons other than machinge guns

[flat sedge]

effectively the main benefit of the M249 over the M4 is bigger mag size & a secondary of twice the max damage range, downsides include various handling debuffs like ADS speed

but it holds the exact same dps

[still ledge]

Kinda like a class has acess to this good sword
But the other has a weaker version and some other mid to bad weapons, shouldnt it be a good choice?

[flat sedge]

depends on how you weaken it suppose

The L86 to my knowledge is still one of thebetter TTK/DPS options among support

[livid carbon]

throw in the doubled recoil aswell and it gets even more aparent how bad this gun is...

[still ledge]

Yeah i basically made it a more close range while holding a choke weapons because even before the nerf it felt weird on mid range

[flat sedge]

(Effectively first or second place is between L86 & MG36, than M249 at 3rd, ultrimax at 4th)

[livid carbon]

it's the best...

[still ledge]

Ultimax shines on mid ranges

[flat sedge]

issues with all support weapons is lack of ADS speed with the current meta

[still ledge]

God i wish i could see trough smoke with that one scope

Would be quite busted ngl

[flat sedge]

than mix the mentioned lack of DPS

[livid carbon]

ultimax is in fact the only one that does its job

[flat sedge]

You now are playing a reaction game where you act & progress slower to the enemy on average

[livid carbon]

tldr support sucks
byyeee

[flat sedge]

where enemies will be running at the speed of light & can easily flank/ambush you if not careful

[flat sedge]

Thank you for coming to my ted talk

[gilded dock]

l86 is awkward for the class and the meta, but is alright. Ultimax is good at its job. M249 is a worse M4. MG36 is... kinda sad.

[livid carbon]

me now go shleep 😴

[still ledge]

It can be nullified by just being already on ads and holding a choke, but the devs just dont buff this kinda of playstyle and every support weapon gets a disavantage already since you can just get shot back even if you try to suppressive fire the enemy or somehow the guy with a p90 kills you first

[flat sedge]

Pretty much, you either hold a choke, get outgunned by a superior dps gun with peeker's advantage, or you try flanking & hope you don't get caught out in a bad spot

[dusty plinth]

There's nothing meta about the L86 even among Support weapons; the 30-round mag coupled with the relatively incredibly slow reload-time and the miniscule agility and mobility increase compared to the M249 makes it a terrible Support weapon and an even worse Assualt weapon.

[tight narwhal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[gilded dock]

That's what I was saying, it's too awkward to fit into the meta.

[flat sedge]

Being honest, might as well aim for the weapons to fit niches first

than worry about meta later

since metas can change

who knows, by next month the main class picks could be assaults & supports for frontliners

But setting niches that the gun is good at , at the very least would be a good start

[dusty plinth]

Ironically SAW's are designed to be used in anti-infantry frontline roles, the game punishing us as hard as it is for using LMG's is illogical in that sense.

[tight narwhal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[zenith carbon]

Bipods do need a general buff tbh

Maybe something like the mount-to-lock system in cod or just the bfv system

[tight narwhal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[still ledge]

it is harsh af when not deployed

but you get really little bonus when using it

and how janky it is aswell

i remember in bf1 it was quite janky but in a good way

[weary garden]

The bonus is actually 50% recoil reduction

[still ledge]

you could look up and the bipod would be placed like you were looking normaly

[weary garden]

Use that info how you will

[still ledge]

really? i never had a good moment when using the bipod

might be on how it would undeploy almost everytime i looked around or the recoil moved my camera up by a bit

[weary garden]

Maybe

But it's numerically 50%

[still ledge]

went to check and already dont like it so far, in the m249 you get 1.54 vertical recoil and 1.82 when not using the bipod, removing 50% vertical becomes 0.77 and horizontal 0.91 when using it

just by using a vertical grip you make vertical recoil 0.88 and horizontal 1.35 without geting hit by a control nerf, reload speed and etc

[tight narwhal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[weary garden]

Probably after

[zenith carbon]

yeah that's basically the thing

the gun has no weight and doesn't lock onto anything when you're using the bipod

so the chance you've even got it deployed when in a position that's theoretically correct is painfully low

[still ledge]

yes and aswell that you have that and you are almost on par with recoil when using a grip and barrel to reduce it

i think giving it 75% recoil reduction would be great

while keeping that you have longer reload and ads time

then you could go balancing from there

[zenith carbon]

Related to this, i think it’d be nice if support could get something like a mounting stand

80% recoil reduction or something but you’re locked into firing there and have a limited turn axis

[still ledge]

i remember thinking about giving support the ability to build fixed AA guns, mortars lmgs and stuff

or to the enginner

[zenith carbon]

Those were suggestions we threw up in the old vehicle thread! As well as possibly making them towable

[still ledge]

idk i have been playing project reality alot lately and kinda nice you can build these stuff with your squad

hell could be a locked squad leader thing

so it doesnt become a spam fest of an entire squad going full engies and supports

but though i think it would fit engie, and outside of fights tanks and firing rpgs into crowd he has nothing going for him

[zenith carbon]

Mmmh i think it’d be better just to tie it to squad points

[still ledge]

honestly i wonder when we will get weapons focused on taking down choppers

[dusty plinth]

Logically the GPMG's should be able to.

[paper vector]

Tandems and AUGs

Though ultimax fills the role somewhat decently

[livid carbon]

rsh12s do the job aswell within 30-50m

[meager salmon]

well, i mean i guess. but at that point so would a suicide C4 :/

[livid carbon]

30-50m against a chopper?
you funking cheesus or someshit?

[meager salmon]

just run at them. youre more likely to actually get the kill

run, jump, and hope for the best

[livid carbon]

like a helicopter, that thing's flying atleast it was last time i checked...

[meager salmon]

i mean, chances of getting a kill are about the same as it would be with the Rsh, except you at least have some chance of actually destroying the vehicle if you do manage to get it

[livid carbon]

the rsh is suprisingly good at it

[meager salmon]

for a sidearm, anyway. MSR, M110, AUG are always gonna do the same but more effectively. and theyre primaries, so you have more than 20 rounds at your disposal

[wanton leaf]

One solution we came up with was "taking off" the armor once it was spent. this would give you 75% of your speed back, but 25% remains due to you still having the carrier off.

It would take like 5-10 seconds to take the armor off depending on type.
This solves the debuff issue mostly, while keeping armor balanced and having some kind of permanaent downside.

[livid carbon]

permanent downsides without having a way to get it back are still permanent downsides
yay you move a little faster but still suck and will be fucked in the next fight...

[wanton leaf]

its relaly not that big a deal, whats the speed debuff for evo?

[livid carbon]

-10% everything, i'd much rather have armor that i can get back rather than have permanent empty armor with downsides

[wanton leaf]

-2.5 doesn't sound too bad tbh, its a similar debuff to adding a couple attachments.

And potenially you impliment armor with the ability to put new plates back in from the dropped in supply crates

[livid carbon]

give us replenishable armor yes, the debuffs are just not justified, the guns already slow you down enough
balance over realism in this game

[woven fossil]

I love that the challenge example in #dev-wip shows that the m110 2 taps exo and no helmet lmao. What great armor

[inner monolith]

So is it hilarious that even SMGs get to have more damage than support weapons or what

[still ledge]

If he gets the ability to replenish armour i would be totally fine if the armour in general was better and you would have a permant debuff in speed like the guy said above

Because we just dont know if the exo would be busted or not since it only does it job after a single fight

[meager salmon]

its hilarious in a way that makes me very sadcry

[woven fossil]

who would win.

Singapore LMG 100 round drum mag with constant recoil system

A wacky german slappy boi with 9mm

[livid carbon]

(corpse) hecksler und cock ofc

this update feels like a flacid one

[fierce dawn]

Having just done the 200 l86 kills today my hot take is the drum should be standard (with none of its current penalties besides load time) with a "short" mag that is the current quick stats + an ADS time reduction and movespeed buff

It wouldn't be meta but at least a new players first introduction to support would give them a gun that can lay down a lot of covering fire relatively accurately

Basically reversing it from a big AR you can turn into a bullet hose to a bullet hose you can cut down into a big AR

[paper vector]

EXO is -17.5% total compared to light/empty

You will likely have a heavier backpack and gun as well though

[meager salmon]

yeah. do people really think that the support-class speed debuffs are overexaggerated? like no, the class is slow as hell

[paper vector]

Anyone who’s played it knows how slow it is

Any debate comes from how likely that is to make a difference in a fight

[meager salmon]

which i still think doesnt leave much room for debate. its borderline delusional to say that medics being zoomy doesnt give them a direct advantage when getting shot at compared to support getting shot at.

the game has a pretty extreme focus on movement speed when it comes to running and gunning. theres no inertia, and that applies to all classes, support included, so sheer speed is the name of the game

[violet smelt]

Yet another update and yet no support weapons

[meager salmon]

well, this wasnt really a content update anyway. no class got anything added to it

[livid carbon]

the time without mg3 is a sad one

[meager salmon]

give me SPMG or give me death

[lunar wasp]

plsplspls add the rpk

[still ledge]

I want to see that shit ngl

Imagine if they fix the bipod and you basically has the equivalent of a transport helicopter minigun with the rate of fire

[gilded dock]

Make Exo armor have full body coverage and explosion resistance

[still ledge]

Ngl the explosion resitance sounds good

Nah fuck it
just change the exo to a bombsuit

Let me roleplay as a skulldozer

[woven fossil]

EOD suit. But you die from heat exhaustion

[meager salmon]

bombsuit, but you ARE the bomb

Suddenly, youre every R6S player's worst nightmare

[meager cypress]

you should already be doing this with the blackhawk
each passenger is a kamikazi c4 bomb

[meager salmon]

that... well thats a flying nuke

[paper lance]

I just want more guns to level.

[livid carbon]

ok so bipod is a fucking joke (suprise)
the handling getting buttfunked across the bord is absolute dogshit aswell as the extra movement speed debuff just being the final insult to this poor excuse of a class
give us a working bipod and working armor + mobility then this class could work on more than a handful of maps in a handful of scenarios
rn they get outdamaged by ars, out ranged by dmrs and literally out everythinged by every single other gun
as well as the mind baffling lack of any meaningful suppression essentially taking away the one job lmgs ought to to
the overall state of support makes me wanna cry, scream, rip my hair out and then use the helicopter rope for special c4 type of stuff
the class is not enjoyable in the slightest and it's a middle finger to anyone wanting a bfg
thx for coming to my ted talk fuck this class, its guns, mobility
EVERY FUCKING THING ABOUT THIS BULLSHIT

[flat sedge]

( Most of suit 250 HP, face plate 32 HP, helmet 67 HP total MS Reduction -25% prior to weapon) IT IS TIME FOR PAIN TRAIN!

[fierce dawn]

allow supports to yell BACK TO BACK and go into a slowmo gunfight with another support covering them as they gun down dozens of filthy medics

(man army of two was fun)

[still ledge]

I dont mind at all the movement debuff

But ehat its funny is that it gives debuff on control and recoil, only for the 50% reducion of the bipod to be almost on par with the first grip you unlock

I think the only stats that should be affected by a debuff is the reload, movemenet speed and maybe ads time

And i really disagree with making him faster at all
Dont want it to be another class to be a run and gun but he has now 100 ammo in the magazine

[fierce dawn]

LMG ADS times are already fucked

[still ledge]

Rewards positioning and being a defesinve class that he is supposed to be

[fierce dawn]

yeah im saying you prob dont need to fuck them further

[still ledge]

But not making bipod a straight upgrade in both run and gunning and defending

If you want faster ads and stuff use something else or for what it should be not a lmg like the both we have

Always saw the two lmgs as focused more on being prepared and defensive while the l86 and gc6 being more offensive ones

With is not in that state

[livid carbon]

it's not about hyper shooty zoomy support
it's about usability, which is in the fucking basement fyi
and positioning be damned there are only a few spots that are actually effective aswell as being time depended or easily flankable
i won't do a whole area survey before i start shooting
you can go and take a look at what people want to do to bipods to make them functional
i'll go back to my assault val or medic scorpion until support gets fixed, in the meantime it will remain the class that is just a disability without upsides...

[fierce dawn]

i think the only "run n gun" thing possible at all with support is the L86 ADSing out of sprint slightly faster

which doesnt really qualify tbh

[paper vector]

If you’re fairly close you don’t need to ADS

[fierce dawn]

if youre fairly close you're dead to SMG fire, if you're at a distance the M200 comes knocking. that nice medium is too narrow

imo

[livid carbon]

oh and positions don't give a shit about you when you're 5-10km/h slower than your mates
support sucks and it's prolly not gonna change in the near future
feels like it's balanced for milsim, but we have a shmovement shooter...

[paper vector]

The L86A1, generally speaking, kills faster than any SMG in CQC

The purpose of the gun is dedicated close range brawling

[livid carbon]

gl using it as a better smg solar
numbers ain't everything...

[fierce dawn]

a four hit at 775 is not faster than a 4 hit at 950

[paper vector]

They are
Just these aren’t all the numbers

[livid carbon]

"Achkushuallly arroumoorrr"

[paper vector]

Consider the vague possibility that not everyone gets pure bodyshots on unarmored players

[fierce dawn]

i was counting leg shots on full exo there 🙂

[livid carbon]

leg munching ftw

[fierce dawn]

the toes meta

[paper vector]

If we assume lack of armour then the MP7 and vector will usually beat the L86A1

For the average player at least the L86 beats them by a larger margin against players who do have armour

If you hit pure limb shots that doesn’t matter, I don’t think many do though

A single miss on a limb makes armour quite important again

[fierce dawn]

okay so you're munching 125 hp, standard armor

MP7 kills in 5 hits at 950

L86 kills in... 5 hits at 775

[paper vector]

Nah, considering all armour types and all possible combinations of hit locations

Seriously I’ve done all this ages ago

Here’s the assumptions, if you disagree with them for the case of this argument I can get new stats with alternative ones.

[flat sedge]

might as well start with the following
L86 has a slower fire rate than various SMGs,slower reaction time and this leads towards SMGs can more easily get on target faster & shoot as well faster

[paper vector]

If by reaction time you mean aim down time then yes

[flat sedge]

SMGs also equally share a similar damage bracket on various ones

[paper vector]

That’s why hip firing is so good for LMGs / LSWs

[flat sedge]

keep in mind hipfiring is good if not sprinting at all as well

[paper vector]

Other than that it has a relatively big mag compared to SMGs, with better velocity / falloff. Other than that the SMGs Beat it

[paper vector]

You can’t aim down while sprinting either so this seems an entirely moot point.

[flat sedge]

so L86 has a 30 round mag

You can go from a sprint to ADS

the MG36 has a 40

LMGs you are correct through

[paper vector]

When I refer to the size of a mag I refer to the average kill-per-mag potential it has

L86 compared to SMGs generally does well on that front

[fierce dawn]

this man really went and made a frictionless sphere model world to try and prove that actually, LMGs are broken OP rather than believe what is his lying eyes showed him in the game

[flat sedge]

Kinda, the MP7 has a similar average kill per mag it can do to my knowledge

[fierce dawn]

i got nothing to say but "lol. lmao"

[still ledge]

When it comes to support run speed, you already can decrease it by just taking off the exo suit(and for what it should be using something other than the lmgs) and no im not against it being run and gun(i re read what i said and had a brain fart while writing) just not favoured about the bipod with no downsides on this matter you are a class that can insta build defensives strutures and be able to always be ready with ammo and health and can in theory go on huge kills in seconds by just your weapon alone.
But the problem is that support has the tools to be either a menace or just no shit, but they are either so bad with so many debuffs that he cant even use them to be effective, yeah you can survive more shots, but why if alot of guns can just kill you as fast even without, you have weapons that can do well on medium and close ranges but you get outgunned so easy by everything or just cant even punish players that get in your line of sight

[paper vector]

MP7 is about 5.61, for L86 it’s about 7.02 assuming no long barrel

[flat sedge]

Keep in mind the overkill damage

You both got 30 rounds in a mag

you both need 4 to kill

[paper vector]

This is as close to in game as I can get. The only thing that differentiates guns is their stats, therefore each gun can be quantified fully for comparison by their stats.

[still ledge]

You can sit in a spot and just cover for 10 seconds but a guy 60 meters away with a p90 can trade with you

[paper vector]

That is accounted for

But you don’t always need 4 to kill

[flat sedge]

(aims for legs on a full HP target) but I get what you mean solar

I am using a standard 100 HP target

since chest armor is easy enough to bypass

[still ledge]

Hell even some medium distance sopes gives you debuffs in some way outside of that you are bad at close ranges when on ads

[paper vector]

Even on standard 100hp, I think the L86 reduces stk on headshots while MP7 doesn’t, though not fully sure

Yeah must be actually, KPM is higher on unarmored targets too

[flat sedge]

Best guess is a mix of the 1.5x multiplier

vs the 1.2x of the SMGs

[paper vector]

And the higher base damage of the weapon

Only need a single headshot out of 4 to reduce stk by 1

Which is not very unlikely

[flat sedge]

more due to the headshot ratio

The MP5 at 25 gets 30 currently

with 1.5x it would be 37.5

[livid carbon]

i don't think we're playing the same game or different classes
even with heavy armor (why even medium wtf) it sucks, the bipod is just a god damn insult to anyone wanting to play a good class
getting high kill games is nigh impossible, unless u r cracked but even then "it defend" isn't an argument for being outright crippled and any seemingly beneficial things fricking you over even more
tldr if you think current support and its weapons are fine you either don't play it or are delusional, srsly what the flurmp

[flat sedge]

which gets it into that 3 shot kill range

the L86 got a 46.5 headshot damage minus longbarrel

goes to 48.6 if I am thinking right with LB

the MP7 holds the same idea

[still ledge]

No need to be agressive at all
And i dont think there was a moment i said his weapons or the class are amazing or fine, and for what i remember you said the ultimax was a decent weapon by its own

What i am saying is that there are way more ways to make this class good or decent by not just being focus on movement speed when with the exo he is definetly supposed to be a slow hard to kill class

But what i said is that you get outkilled, out gunned and your armor doesnt help that much that being faster would be a better choice since the impact of the armour is low

I just know the armour saved me in the first fight, and when i get shot by a sniper

[gilded canopy]

tbh, i dont mind being slow, my biggest issue with this class is the bipod, the lack of ways to farm xp, and the small selection of weapons when everyone else has more than 10 guns xd

tho slow is dead in this game

speed is war

[flat sedge]

more than 12 in most cases

(ARs alone are 12)

[still ledge]

Heard some people say to give support dmrs

But eh that one i have no fucking ideia how ir would work

[livid carbon]

exo sucks, every gun sucks apart from ultimax, bipod ain't bipoddin' and that slow of a movement speed is just pain (positioning my ass) you can't where you need to go...

[flat sedge]

but effectively support suffers from trying to play that slow but very effective defensive powerhouse

but lacks the durability + the bite to make it one

in addition it lacks suppression so peeking a nest is far easier

[livid carbon]

oh and suppression doesn't exist (gives me depression )
so ulti is still mid
best of bad is still not very good...

[still ledge]

Me using the amazing ability of walking in more enclosed spaces intead of a open field

[flat sedge]

than you add the lack of reactivity which only harms the LMGs in this speed meta even further

[still ledge]

Or killing myself to spawn in my team

[fierce dawn]

Battle Rifles, maybe

[flat sedge]

It does...... It just SUCKS at 30 seconds+ to even apply & even than it is weak

[livid carbon]

my guy cqb is death and open fields are where my gun should gun...

[still ledge]

I remember someone mentioning bf type of supression

[fierce dawn]

but any class would be made better by getting the FAL if they didnt already have it

lmao

[still ledge]

I dont even have arguements for that

[livid carbon]

vingette isn't what i'd call suppression

[flat sedge]

note why I said it SUCKS

[gilded canopy]

me, im begging for support to have DMR's

[flat sedge]

it is worse than BF5 suppression which BF5 suppression already was so Bad

[still ledge]

Bf5 has supression?

Jesus i never noticed that lmao

[flat sedge]

yea, it had the support subclass machine gunner

But effectively all it really does is spot you

[livid carbon]

i proposed slight aim punch,
uncontrollable gun sway (like long range scope), vignette, a bit of blur around the edges of the screen and some desaturation...

[still ledge]

Honestly on how this game can go to 127 vs 127

A supression mechanic would be the closest to making this a milsim type of peeking around a rock 3km away and dying to a rifleman

[flat sedge]

I would say only LSGs,LMGs & above should be the ones able to do suppression

[still ledge]

If done wrong

[fierce dawn]

god what i'd give for some real aim punch on LMGs

[livid carbon]

this would of be balanced by range, gun class etc etc

[fierce dawn]

hitting three shots on a recon and getting perfectly drilled between the eyes feels so bad

[still ledge]

You could limit it

You can only get supressed by two players maxed

So you dont get blinded

Depending on how much debuff you get though

[flat sedge]

so many ways to do suppression

[livid carbon]

sadly oki wants a casual milsim without the milsim
and we ofc can't have good vehicles, class balance, weapon balance or milsim mechanics that would infringe on smg medics....

[flat sedge]

isn't Oki a smg medic main?

[fierce dawn]

to be fair

isnt everyone

[livid carbon]

ex fucking actly

[flat sedge]

DMR assault at worse here

[livid carbon]

carbine assault/medic

[fierce dawn]

im pretty sure medic is still my top everything despite a horrible DMR Assault havit

[flat sedge]

I don't touch medic

[fierce dawn]

habit*

[still ledge]

Smgs medics having to live life without going on a 70-5 just by playing medic smgs

[livid carbon]

val and scorp my beloved

[still ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/punch-punching-laptop-rage-smashing-screen-gif-17930159

[flat sedge]

I will say medic is just too powerful to be blunt

they have a wide ranging kit

[still ledge]

Doesnt he( a class to give support) has more weapons than a support class more focused on killing

[flat sedge]

they have the without question best self sustain that self bandaging only buffed

Yep

[livid carbon]

and support makes me want to delete my brains system69 sometimes

[flat sedge]

he has all but DMRs,Snipers & Support's two categories

including all the CQC stuff

where assault, doesn't have SMGs & only half the carbines

[still ledge]

I wouldnt live without support

50 hours on it with proud

[flat sedge]

But to sum up, medic has one of the widest weapon selections (only beatened by engineer who I am thinking has them all beside the SRs,LSGs & LMGs)

[livid carbon]

i will die if i continue playing it
death by self administered helicopter rope 💀

[still ledge]

Im a heavy main

He is literally my class lmao

bigger guns and magazines= dopamine

[gilded canopy]

same, 49hs in support

my main class

[still ledge]

Based

[gilded canopy]

i actually just love giving ammo and supporting the team

[still ledge]

Support mains assemble(none of them)

[livid carbon]

i want to play and like him but it's a pain and i'm not that masochistic

[still ledge]

I love is just doing a middle finger to snipers and build a fortfication and blocking his shor

[flat sedge]

well you are outdpsed by most guns in various ways

[fierce dawn]

this but also setting up cool little forts and trophy systems to protect the soft smallmen

[livid carbon]

do you have the support bingo btw?

[still ledge]

Also build a defense and seeing my teammates using it makes me happy

[flat sedge]

your main passive is just non existent based on mode & such

[still ledge]

Honestly if you could use anti trophy on primary slot it would be cool

Just be hyper focus on building and not dying hy grenade spam

[fierce dawn]

mount a trophy system to your exo helmet

or big backpack

[livid carbon]

anyways time to vanish of into dream land now bb guys have great one

[fierce dawn]

be a walking "no fuck you" zone to nade spam

[flat sedge]

primary gadget or weapon?

[still ledge]

Funny enough you would contribute to nade spam

[flat sedge]

guten nacht

[fierce dawn]

nn

[still ledge]

Set a wall on a bridge and trow ammo boxes around

Watch as your 30 teammates trow grenades and they dont die back

[livid carbon]

grammer in german is funny (*gute ^^)

[fierce dawn]

yes, but my team's "honorable explosive barrage"
not the filthy enemy team's "scummy nade spam"

[still ledge]

Primary i think

Not the one with ammo boxes

I just use c4 on support anyways

And i forget i have it on

[fierce dawn]

i use trophy systems usually. bc no one else will

[still ledge]

Ye me too

[fierce dawn]

44 xp per nade nuked adds up fast

added*

[still ledge]

Also because it sucks you lodt that fort you made because a guy trew a grenade at you

[flat sedge]

feels worse when enemies do C4

no way to counter that beside shoot the guy

[still ledge]

Run towards them

Make them kill themself

[flat sedge]

We are slow

they are fast

C4 one taps me without delay

[still ledge]

Or just make tropy destroy the c4

[flat sedge]

I wish that could happen

[gilded canopy]

Would be funny af to be able to put c4 in the riot shields

[still ledge]

One thing i liked was that someone mentioned to exo give explosive resistence

I want to see a day where devs do this, fuck up the numbers and you are able to survive a suicide c4

[flat sedge]

50.811 hours here

[still ledge]

The day the mg3 releases i will be a happy man

[fierce dawn]

then they give it to Medic for "balance reasons"

[still ledge]

You just cant understand the sorrow i had when i learned new weapons were launched, but not to support

😭

[fierce dawn]

I have a mighty need for the AN-94

But

right after that i want some real chonky support guns

[still ledge]

I swear to god if i enter a squad and all support slots are full

Im going to cry

[flat sedge]

Please not another AR to add to the pile

I desire a LSG or LMG at least in the next weapon bundle

[still ledge]

Same

Honestly you guys think a class update would be good?

[fierce dawn]

hey

[still ledge]

Like just hyper focusing on making one balanced

[fierce dawn]

at least that one would be different

burst-fire focused!

[flat sedge]

I would say yes

[still ledge]

Specially to engie, medic and support

[flat sedge]

than again I am used to Warframe, where a dev of the name Pablo just goes all out making a older (and generally considered bad/unfun) warframe to feel better & fun

[fierce dawn]

he has to atone for Yareli

[flat sedge]

(AKA he turned a big meme of a character into a very fun & powerful powerhouse)

[flat sedge]

he is doing hydroid at least

[still ledge]

I just want all classes to be decent😭

[flat sedge]

Same

[still ledge]

Like I just want more reasons to pick engie, support and assault

[flat sedge]

Well assault would effectively require nerfs to medic

[still ledge]

Medic and sniper have some uniqueness or power to them

[flat sedge]

Engineer is at least given the RPG Heat I suppose for all situtions

[fierce dawn]

i feel like Medic needs to lose some guns + spend bandaids to selfheal, Recon needs to be able to, you know, recon

[still ledge]

The others either get outclassed or just not enough reason

[flat sedge]

add he is going to feel better when vehicles do

[flat sedge]

Moon here is the issue

[fierce dawn]

support is just the sadboy in the back who gets a rock when they all go trick or treating

[flat sedge]

you'll need to adjust his passives to be team only if you make him heal only with dropped medkits & bandages for self healing

[still ledge]

Give engie AA guns and more stuff to build towards helping in combat( mortars, anti tank building etc)

[flat sedge]

add you make him NOT want to revive people even more

[still ledge]

While support keeps the basic but can do on instant

[flat sedge]

personally the only ones not in a decent spot are just assault (medic :I can do everything you can do but I can do it better!") and Support (lacks all the things mentioned prior)

[flat sedge]

Also support's building passive is a 3 parter ya know

[still ledge]

3 parter?

[flat sedge]

Part 1 is instant building

[still ledge]

Ohhh

[fierce dawn]

then big HESCO

[still ledge]

Faster repair

[fierce dawn]

then barbwire

3 parts 🙂

[still ledge]

Yeah

[flat sedge]

part 2 is faster building progress (So when someone else places it/it takes damage) and part 3 is faster decon

you also have the double hesco wall & the barbed wire fences

[fierce dawn]

i will say i love Big HESCO

[flat sedge]

but a support can outdo roughly two people decostructing

[fierce dawn]

you can make little stairs up cliffs

[flat sedge]

more than that lol

without something else they can't be climbed over

[fierce dawn]

then the c4 spam hits

feels bad

[still ledge]

Probably the worst is that you have to press middle mouse to build

[flat sedge]

I feel hescos should be VERY resistant to explosives

[still ledge]

Who here has dropped a ammo box by accident while doing it

[flat sedge]

anyhow

The support's passive is either useful or useless through

[fierce dawn]

or frustrating, in CTF

where it "works" but it doesn't really work

[flat sedge]

Insert even if you get the squad supplies you can't build close to your flag to fortify it

[still ledge]

I see it more useful with barbed wire

[zenith carbon]

This was a mood especially since the game’s balance forced me off comfy support and onto medic just to get enough xp for the ultimax

[still ledge]

Instabuild is a time and life saver though

[fierce dawn]

i miss it every prestige

less this time, though, since the challenge got me to finish the L86

[flat sedge]

well the issue is, when you don't get squad supplies for various reasons

[fierce dawn]

i still say its built backwards

[still ledge]

Barber wire tends to be damaged everytime i come back to them

[zenith carbon]

The ultimax should be the starting lmg tbh

[still ledge]

So that faster repair can help sometimes

Specially when you dont want to waste squad points

[zenith carbon]

So that everyone can be slowly disappointed at the class instead of being surprised that it’s even remotely functional

[fierce dawn]

or at least stick a drum on the L86 by default, keep the forgiving stats, and then make its short mag unlockable

[flat sedge]

(Insert every class gets a new gun every like 5-10 levels but support who goes 20 > 50 > 100)

[fierce dawn]

level 0s having no real support gun option bites

[still ledge]

Main reason why i leave squads

[fierce dawn]

hopefully new weapons will help that

[zenith carbon]

I AM FOR THIS. The L86 is just. Pathetic with its stats

[still ledge]

Other is when they are mostly snipersnsitting 400meters away

[zenith carbon]

I’m fine with bad handling but running out of ammo every gunfight is insufferable

[flat sedge]

it is a new player weapon that lacks much use in various ways

[fierce dawn]

and a short mag could let it go positive in movespeed

[flat sedge]

at least prior to the rework it was like a skill cannon

[zenith carbon]

And it renders the first LSG players get a hunk of junk that convinces them to get off the support class

[fierce dawn]

like the M110's

[still ledge]

L86 is a pain in the ass as a new player

[zenith carbon]

They reworked it???

[still ledge]

Ye

[zenith carbon]

Explains a lot, i used to love it

[fierce dawn]

it used to be able to reach 34 damage right

[flat sedge]

less recoil, but reduced the damage so it lacks the 3 shot capability

[flat sedge]

like 33.5, Just enough

[fierce dawn]

thats why it feels 1 damage off greatness now lol

[zenith carbon]

I can barely tell the recoil change and now all my gunfights end with me needing to throw my mag thanks oki <3

Okay that’s being glib

It’s just meh now

[flat sedge]

same

[still ledge]

I actually felt it

[flat sedge]

It used to be my favorite gun in the game due to higher recoil values ,high fire rate & a payoff that felt rewarding

[still ledge]

Somehow hitting more shots with it on mid range

[zenith carbon]

It was really fun to hold chokes with it

[still ledge]

Yeah i prefer that

[zenith carbon]

Since you actually needed to move off and then re-adjust to keep holding with that small mag size

Now it’s just mid

[still ledge]

It was kinda of a break from support without you changing class

I would keep changing weapons everytime depending on my modd

[gilded canopy]

bruh im trying the L86 first time after the "buff", wth happened with it?

its awful now

[still ledge]

Now i just use the two lmgs

[fierce dawn]

it's now... an acquired taste?

like

[zenith carbon]

MG36 is mid but it’s okay i guess

[flat sedge]

rework,not buff

[zenith carbon]

The L86 is like coke

[fierce dawn]

nah nah MG36 is an abomination

[zenith carbon]

You’re always grabbing for that one taste

[gilded canopy]

its the best cqc alternative for support tbh

[zenith carbon]

Two words: 40 rounds

[flat sedge]

but yea, I like high recoil guns becausethis may been one of my first games lol

#off-topic message

[zenith carbon]

That justifies it to me already

[still ledge]

Basically that

[fierce dawn]

not gonna deny that

but i am SALTY about that statline

[flat sedge]

Just aim at the legs

[gilded canopy]

i mean yeah, part of being support is being salty about almost everything in support :B

[flat sedge]

and I would enjoy if they reworked the MG36 to be 750 Fire rate and be like the old L86wLB

[still ledge]

i hate this fucking class so much
continues to play it

[velvet wing]

Support mantra

[still ledge]

Ngl sometimes me when im geting destroyed in a match

[velvet wing]

Source: me

[still ledge]

I could change to assault or medic

[fierce dawn]

damage is the only thing that isnt an issue with it lol

[still ledge]

I just choose not too

[velvet wing]

If I didn't enjoy getting shot to death I'd play medic

[flat sedge]

armor is a issue for it's damage

[fierce dawn]

it just feels like a comedy sized AR

like one of those novelty big pens

your guy cant work it properly so the reload is five fucking seconds and the ADS is a slowww

[still ledge]

I wonder if the problem is the armour itself or the fact you still slow and squish after losing it

Ans you cant refill it

Unless you

[flat sedge]

bits of both

[still ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/blm-gif-25815938

[fierce dawn]

you should RESPAWN, NOW

[zenith carbon]

i honestly just wish playing support's like actual role was fun tbh

[gilded canopy]

i feel weird being assault or medic

[flat sedge]

You can 100% ignore armor & lose 0 damage by aimming for legs & arms (Arms cover upper chest)

[gilded canopy]

like im being a bad person or smth

[zenith carbon]

like that insufferable guy keeps coming in here and demanding pdws for support and like
support's role is supposed to be to keep the whole bloody thing slow

[still ledge]

Yah

Make it strong and the game slows down

[zenith carbon]

and I don't want to just be playing assault with ammo box

[still ledge]

Why this sounds like a tf2 enginner debate

[flat sedge]

I would say Battle rifles or DMRs make more sense to me

[fierce dawn]

battle rifles i can get behind on paper but

FAL

[flat sedge]

insert the engineer is strong through, he has his weaknesses through

[zenith carbon]

ngl bob changed my mind on this on, i'm just for battle rifles now

the last class i'd typically support? shotguns. unfortunately there's literally a bot that tells you whether they're coming to the game

[still ledge]

Only that support has 80 weakness and 2 strong stuff

[flat sedge]

insert that is a balance issue than of the fal

[fierce dawn]

yes

[flat sedge]

What is the strong stuff even?

[zenith carbon]

it starts with a 'u' and ends with an 'ltimax'

[flat sedge]

I shall state this

[still ledge]

Can build shit
massive Grenade spam potential

[flat sedge]

the max is okay, but it isn't strong

It is Good

but outdpsed in various situtions

[still ledge]

But hey

[flat sedge]

it has the various support issues

[zenith carbon]

that's literally about it. the exo armor and helmet aren't strong, they're just there to give you a standing chance once, and support grenade spam is quite nice but not really strong imo

[flat sedge]

etc

[still ledge]

Best feeling is killing a sniper with it

This happens more than it should

[flat sedge]

Exo helmet used to be good

but almost ALL the recons use M200s

[still ledge]

More that your whole teams benefits from it

[zenith carbon]

i think this is relatively speaking because grenade spam is quite decently strong! unfortunately this thing called 'c4' exists and it's stronger than every fucking gadget in the game in the dumbest decision ever made

[still ledge]

Play on the map with a bridge and trow some boxes around

You can get shit ton of points and see grenades flying

[zenith carbon]

true

[still ledge]

If an assault puts a grenade tropy its guarantee you guys are gonna push trough

[zenith carbon]

i said a while back ngl that one of the biggest support 'buffs' you could give (and something to really slow down the game's inane pace) would just be to cut the number of base mags every class gets

[flat sedge]

assault,engineer or support

[still ledge]

It would quite buff assault aswell

[zenith carbon]

and assault does kinda need the indirect buff imo so i'm for it

[still ledge]

Also

Nerf of solo medics

[zenith carbon]

that's the thing i'm looking at

[flat sedge]

ya mean selfish medics, not solo

[zenith carbon]

real

[still ledge]

That can work out unironically

[flat sedge]

a solo medic can still do the medic's job

[still ledge]

Real

[flat sedge]

a selfish one just views the medkit as their personal health regen

and ignores downed teammates,hurt teammates & so on

[zenith carbon]

unfortunately the game currently incentivises everyone to be a selfish medic

[still ledge]

Also is true oki is a smg medic?

[flat sedge]

medics got setup in a way to heavily enable it

[still ledge]

Heard that around

We need a dev to be a support main so we get weapons fast

[zenith carbon]

honestly i'll state my opinion again:
if he is, that only explains the stupid state of classes in the game atm
if he isn't, that just makes it kinda weird he made the medic class so strong

[flat sedge]

but the changes all make sense if we view Oki as a smg medic

[zenith carbon]

either way we're left with a hopelessly unbalanced game

[flat sedge]

F2000 being proitized?
SMGs had their ranges slashed & shipped with the F2000 soon after

[velvet wing]

The just need to give support a swimsuit option

Prefectly balanced

[weary garden]

I've seen Oki play, if he's an SMG medic he's not very good at using it to it's fullest

[flat sedge]

Bandage healing rather than dealing with the medic issue directly?
Buffs medic self healing even further while "Appealing" to the self heals on every idea while equally hurting the reviving of non medic classes

etc

[still ledge]

Its funny that it helped all classes

[gilded canopy]

a maid outfit please

[still ledge]

Instead of nerfing medic in some way

[weary garden]

F2000 and G3 coming out were from diff reasons than to buff medic

[gilded canopy]

with cat ears

[still ledge]

Just made everyone be able to be selfish more

[flat sedge]

Not saying they were precisely

[still ledge]

I still expect the day support players will be selfish

[flat sedge]

I am saying viewing from that lens

[still ledge]

Since they can literally refill everything they have

[flat sedge]

because the F2000 is like a SMG is afew ways

[weary garden]

Also the bandage healing wasn't supposed to work on medic it just was too deep in the code to fix

[zenith carbon]

the reason they aren't is because they aren't really allowed to be

[weary garden]

Yeah that's not on Oki

[gilded canopy]

• Tries to cross the road

• Gets headshoted by M200

• Does't need to refill ammo :D

[zenith carbon]

they're not set up to be aggressive, so there's no point in wasting your limited amount of ammo boxes on playing selfishly

[velvet wing]

I wish they could refill themselves lol