showdown-general

[main jungle]

Yeah I remember now, it was for using outrage turn 1 and getting swaping out if the opponent swaps a fairy in

[vital sand]

we sharing our teams?

https://pokepast.es/6e7462334e99d69f

I wanted to use my sprite for the boss

I forgot the rules that if the boss dies i lose

I couldve switched and destiny bonded

[mossy violet]

free thinkers when shore up

[weary burrow]

Aegislashs ability doesn’t work on Aegislash fusions, right?

[odd kiln]

it does

[vital sand]

It does, i just dont wanna use it

[weary burrow]

Uhhh how would that work?!?!

[vital sand]

My thought is that to get a Counter focus sash mon, but that wont work against special sweepers so i just use focus sash unburdened to get someone out

[vital sand]

It switches the pure stat of defense and spdef for atk and spa

[weary burrow]

Makes sense

[vital sand]

When using king's shield (or protect but idk if it works) it will switch back the stats

[gritty anvil]

Wait, I'm so confused about the Big Boss rules. I would have thought that you can only pick one line for grunts (so either all mareanie or all honedge/doublade), but just made a team like yours and it validated

[vital sand]

No we found out that we can use either line as grunts a few hours ago

I took advantage of it instantly

[gritty anvil]

I see, OK. Tbh I probably wouldn't have changed much, Gabite isn't very good

[vital sand]

funny enough i have a garchomp team

but when testing against AG it never took off

[glossy zealot]

who won

[dense token]

i didnt wake up in time for big boss lol

[vital sand]

mmm

[odd kiln]

People say

[vital sand]

Is this a valid reason to ban regenerator?

cuz

even with the timer

we can do this all day

[odd kiln]

naw

[vital sand]

ok

[odd kiln]

get stronger mons

[vital sand]

We're both shit creek here

We both dont wanna spend pp

The sad state of stall

The winning move is not to play

[opaque inlet]

lol

[vital sand]

Bruh that's the same person I fought stall with

[obtuse shoal]

So who won yesterday

[gritty anvil]

Big boss, or?

[obtuse shoal]

Yes

[gritty anvil]

Twas I

[obtuse shoal]

Nice
What team?

[gritty anvil]

https://pokepast.es/a7c2a9b110cfd47d

My takeaway was that high BST is huge in the format. I was able to just muscle my way through some matches because Electabuzz is just faster and has better offenses (on both sides) than a lot of NFEs.

[obtuse shoal]

My friend had a team that would annihilate yours
However, he fought against his counter game 1

[gritty anvil]

Also, Plasma Fists is a very good move. The Scyther and Aerodactyl fusions overperformed with it

[obtuse shoal]

He was using krokorok intimidate parting shot spam

He had to fight against a rain electabuzz with crit seadra

[gritty anvil]

I was thinking of doing a rain team as well, but decided most swift swim mons just weren't worth it

[obtuse shoal]

Swift swim was banned at the time of the tournament

[gritty anvil]

Ah, that would do it too

I didn't run into any sun teams, but I did beat a hail team and (barely) beat a sand team

I made a massive blunder and clicked plasma fists instead of taunt, which let my opponent's boss Shore Up and brought it down to a damage roll which I won

If I hadn't won the roll I would never have been able to live with myself

[main jungle]

However I wouldn't say it's everything given how good swablus did

I honestly wouldn't mind Big Boss being a regular mode addition

[gritty anvil]

Where did the swablus get to?

[main jungle]

Won 2 rounds and lost to a metangs

However they did beat 4/6

[gritty anvil]

Ah yeah, that's pretty good

[main jungle]

If I played better might have won

The metang fight

The rest probably not

[gritty anvil]

The thing is - none of my matches were all that close (he says pridefully) except for the matchup against a mono ground team with shore up. And my opponents were using Mareanie, Zorua, Klang, etc. In most cases I had over a hundred base stats on them.

That meant that I lived a lot of hits that I really shouldn't have, almost always outsped, and was able to just click unboosted neutral STABs to blow massive holes in stuff.

I would say it takes a very good gimmick to overcome a BST difference.

Case in point - a Tangela/Klang fusion gave me a ton of trouble, I had to bring out my big boss and try a risky sweep. And that was due to its good type matchup and ability, but also because it actually had a defense stat above 100. Tangela isn'tgood, but it has higher stats than most NFEs because it wasn't supposed to evolve.

[ember nova]

I have a stratagy that either will not work at all, or maybe be kinda strong idk.

Perish Song, Soundproof Lapras/Bastiodon.

I'm worried perish song might fail due to soundproof but idk.

I looked it up and it said that all Pokémon will gain a perish song counter except those with soundproof, so would that mean that Lapras/Bastiodon wouldn't gain a counter, but its opponent would?

Considering Lapras has really good HP, and Bastiodon gets anchor shot I think, you could trap oponents pretty easily.

[odd kiln]

its been used before

idt its v good personally bc no recovery and the amount of walls that can get pivoting

also pretty easy to see what it does

[main jungle]

Yeah it works pretty well, had something similar on a grunt

[gritty anvil]

Hydration from Lapras, set rain up and use Rest, now you're cooking

[obtuse shoal]

Thing is
Perish song works through soundproof now

[odd kiln]

not in gen 7

[obtuse shoal]

guys can we have a list of all the good fusions somewhere?

like snorcor, ursanite

[obtuse shoal]

I remember trying it and soundproof didn't protect me

[odd kiln]

that was the common gen bug

[tardy geode]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=techieofcourseo-karmabruh-1724624658620

that was fun

[ember nova]

Man they should really ban Gliscor.

Snorcor is way too stupid.

[gritty anvil]

It seems to me that there are a lot of really good defensive abilities - Regenerator, Poison Heal, various immunities, etc. - and not that many similarly strong offensive abilities (I guess Serene Grace?). Being able to take advantage of head/body stat splits to increase overall bulk is pretty good too, whereas a fusion will never have higher attacking stats than its parts. Even the ability to choose typing seems strongest defensively.

What I'm saying here is - in a fully developed metagame, what stops stall from ruling supreme?

[odd kiln]

permaweather, stallbreakers, vcreate, etc

[gritty anvil]

How would you build a good stallbreaker? Just seems to me walls would get more out of fusion. I guess you could take advantage of a better move pool for something already good at breaking though.

[odd kiln]

examples

its having longevity and power or having very wide coverage

or overwhelming power

[ember nova]

Stallbreakers and Bulky offence is almost too strong in the metagame. Like, I've beaten so many teams with just Snorcor. Despite using it, I feel it's basically unfair.

[gritty anvil]

Interesting, thanks guys

[vital sand]

They banned all the stall breakers into Ubers

[odd kiln]

yeah cause those stallbreakers were not stallbreakers

they were teambreakers

[spring lagoon]

that aint right

thats not right either

[odd kiln]

yeah the sprites are based off dex numbers which starts to screw up in chaos or nd fusions

[vital sand]

How do you recreate Ursaluna Bloodmoon using fusions?

Gameplay and statistic wise

[odd kiln]

why though

its impossible in dex ou bc no normal move hits that high and also scrappy mons have 0 spa

[hexed umbra]

In terms of a bulky Ground type with recovery and set up, try a Gliscor head fusion

Actually, Gliscor fusions work for pretty much anything

[odd kiln]

bm is pretty defined by blood moon + cm + scrappy

[hexed umbra]

It's a bulky set up mon that uniquely is still very threatening without setup

[odd kiln]

cause it clicks the high bp move with no immunities and also can tera to get adapt on top of it

obv you cant replicate that

[vital sand]

how about just regular ursaluna

[hexed umbra]

Not in the game

[odd kiln]

in nd its p good

[unborn pine]

how have i not considered regen entei

[radiant rivet]

I think one point to consider is that no one wallbreaker can break all walls, there will always be a duo of walls your team will struggle to get pass.
Just as no combination of walls will be able to stomach every type of offense.

A team with no bad match ups doesnt exist.

[radiant rivet]

What are the chances we get Bodypress implemented into the game?

[whole karma]

0,0000000001%

[odd kiln]

like 0

its a gen 8 move

[radiant rivet]

aw man

Its very unique

[supple smelt]

theres one gen 8 move i remember

no wait melmetal is gen 7

cuz steel types with access to double slap can get his signature move

even if its sadly banned in ou

[rose ingot]

chat

I wanna build

an actual good team for today tourney

so

I'm gonna put effort into thinking

gonna go with my 4th favorite typing

that's also looks pretty good

[royal perch]

i've built the most dogshit team using my favourite type (bug)
if i can win one match i'll be happy

[rose ingot]

tbf bug has some good stuff to it

although yeah

it's pretty bad if you need all 6 mons to be that type

stab U-Turn

[royal perch]

maybe i should give some of my mons u-turn actually

glad i rechecked my team, i almost just made a massive blunder

[rose ingot]

what is it?

[royal perch]

was trying to do acrobatics technician shenanigans but turns out it doesn't work like i thought it did

[rose ingot]

I am finished with my team

(I think)

[royal perch]

what type?

[ember nova]

Ngl stab power trip with shift gear and moxie is kinda scary.

[ember nova]

It just has to get going first.

[obtuse shoal]

poor steel teams when magnezone comes in

[ember nova]

True.

[obtuse shoal]

or better yet

my whole steel team when entei starts v creating all over the place

[supple smelt]

entei/haxorus my beloved

band v-create on a webs team does wonders

[obtuse shoal]

anyone wanna practice some monotype rn?

[raven sail]

who wanna go in a nat dex if ag battle

[rose ingot]

I can if you're up to it

[shut shard]

same

[rose ingot]

I am WoofusTheDoofus fr

[strange acorn]

hi how does showdown work

wait is it pokemon showdown

oh

how do you add fuisions in pokethon\

in team builder

[supple smelt]

here

see the tab that says fusion/body

[strange acorn]

i had that idea too

dang it

[supple smelt]

there you enter a mon

[strange acorn]

ughhh

[supple smelt]

with the "Swap" button you can swap between the two mons fusions to see different typing or stats (and design, but thats not what makes a mon competitively viable)

thats all the IF client has

[obtuse shoal]

so how do you break registeel xatu

I guess you can set up

[strange acorn]

wait huge power is banned

[royal perch]

there's a few things that are banned

wonder guard, obviously

[supple smelt]

theres a lot of complex bans cuz you can literally have everything

[strange acorn]

gengar has levitat

[supple smelt]

ye, mostly gen 5/6 mechanics here like permanent weather from abilities and old HAs

[strange acorn]

im fighting arctic guy

acto

hmm

i think i will be dq

i cant make my team fast enough

yep

[rose ingot]

Ok so I won my first battle

waiting for my 2nd

[supple smelt]

wish i could make teams

sadly im horrible at it

[royal perch]

i'm also horrible at it, but i joined anyway

anyway i just lost my first match

[supple smelt]

says enough lol

imma join next one i can

[royal perch]

my bug mono dream was no match for the flying dude i matched with

[strange acorn]

ok finfished team nice

[supple smelt]

oh yeah teh most important stuff on monotype is getting rid of weaknesses

[strange acorn]

can somonr fight me for my first ever fuision battle

[supple smelt]

sure

what metagame

IF OU?

[strange acorn]

the rules tournament used

[supple smelt]

monotype huh?

[strange acorn]

i just made team for it

even tho im not auto confirmed

no not mono

just the rule set

[supple smelt]

current tournament is monotype

you mean metagame

[strange acorn]

ye just the rules but mono

[supple smelt]

send team rq

[strange acorn]

ye just like spores banned wonder guards banned

oh and 50s

idk how to play 100s

[supple smelt]

lvl 50?

[strange acorn]

ye

[supple smelt]

thats vgc ruleset

[strange acorn]

ye

[supple smelt]

or doubles

[strange acorn]

idc what rule set do you want

[supple smelt]

send the pokepaste rq i want to see what ruleset you used

[rose ingot]

won the 2nd round

[strange acorn]

if dex ou

[strange acorn]

w

[supple smelt]

what type ya usin?

[strange acorn]

idk the meta at all so this gonna be tuff

none

just the rules

[main jungle]

Imagine having the ability to speak in the lobby

[rose ingot]

smh'

[strange acorn]

without lvl 100s and without mono type

[rose ingot]

I got so lucky

[strange acorn]

i dont

[rose ingot]

I got 2 rounds

with typings

that are weak to mine

[strange acorn]

w

[supple smelt]

ah youre the flying guy huh

[strange acorn]

wait your playthrough master

[rose ingot]

I am

I just winged it

[supple smelt]

Have you set a password yet?

[strange acorn]

whats a spriter

[supple smelt]

a person that makes sprites

[strange acorn]

oo

[strange acorn]

ty

[rose ingot]

the people that make the pixel art for the game lol

[strange acorn]

thank you

[main jungle]

And I've won several battles

[strange acorn]

ye wanna battle tournament rules but without mono type and 100s

so lvl 50??

[supple smelt]

theres no big difference between 50s and 100s

[strange acorn]

there is

harder to do damage calcs in your head

[supple smelt]

bit more damage, but that all

[strange acorn]

im not smart have mercy

[supple smelt]

then you prolly aint gonna win with these damage calcs anyway

[strange acorn]

i have only played 50s for my whole life

[supple smelt]

It usually deals like 10-20% more damage

[strange acorn]

oh 50s

ok

but then

evs

every four would give you a point

[supple smelt]

same in 100s

[strange acorn]

instead every four skip four

[strange acorn]

wdym

8 gives you to points

50s it gives you 4

1

oopsies

[supple smelt]

Bro what are you talking about just fight already

[strange acorn]

then ivs go from 15 plus to 30 plus

fine

...

[supple smelt]

Gimme name

[strange acorn]

50s?

[supple smelt]

aight

Still gonna sweep

[strange acorn]

fr

i havnt played this format before mercy

my user is

h1f5

i rushed ok

[rose ingot]

got cooked

by a normal mono

ggs

[strange acorn]

normal mono on top

[supple smelt]

youre not registered huh?

Get a password on your account

[strange acorn]

hi

can i put my showdown ac

in the password and use

r

[supple smelt]

what?

cant challenge you

Try to challenge me then

2fort troll is the name

[strange acorn]

ima make dif act

i logged in with showdown

[royal perch]

so was there a meta everyone was following or was everyone just doing whatever

[strange acorn]

i sent you a messege

[strange acorn]

hmm

[main jungle]

There was a lot of mono normals from what I saw

[strange acorn]

will 2fort clap my cheecks

in my first battle

[royal perch]

the dominant seems to be water, flying and normal

[strange acorn]

omg i got clapped

i knew it

[supple smelt]

i thought mankeys paw no guard was removed

[strange acorn]

nope

i saw monkey i was like

wait

wait

no guard

oooooo

[supple smelt]

no i remember it being fixed for the IF client

[strange acorn]

hmm

ima go copy you and make sand team

[supple smelt]

aight

imma make a rain team then lol

[strange acorn]

nooo

wait necrosma is legal

im sorry

i made a monster

ok i just wont tell anyone abt this

this thing has good atk insane def base higher than shuckle and more hp than shuckle yes slow and not the greatest atk but get power split to make its middling atk i wont say anything else abt my child

[supple smelt]

aight

prepare to die anyway

[hexed umbra]

Congrats to Anaconja for winning the tournament! What pokemon do you plan on adding to the poll?

[supple smelt]

lemme guess its carbink

[glossy zealot]

Who won

[hexed umbra]

_ _

[odd kiln]

monotype

[dark https://pokepast.es/49483b29169c0854)
[dragon https://pokepast.es/b25bfe6ab2194499)
[fairy https://pokepast.es/1673b1e396a8e731)
[flying https://pokepast.es/d74b8a119947a02f)
[fire https://pokepast.es/296fb72a2adf031c)
[ghost https://pokepast.es/2ae52e3c40541fb9)
[grass https://pokepast.es/c9853c514d8d0e27)
[ground https://pokepast.es/63ea534573f68a8a)
[normal https://pokepast.es/acd73f80803ce9af)
[poison https://pokepast.es/9bad0ac11a487397)
[psychic https://pokepast.es/36584a0a8f9f54d3)
[steel https://pokepast.es/daaf476007528b4d)
[water https://pokepast.es/454e05194689cf27)

@true wedge

[true wedge]

Oh you went all out lmao

Gracias

Oh duh, how could I have forgotten Clefcune for my water team - that would’ve been far better than Kyurem/Pex

[inner jasper]

Full bracket

[odd kiln]

idk yet

itd be reaaally funny if i can double add bink or pod

[obtuse shoal]

wimpod?

[feral anchor]

wimpod is already there

[hexed umbra]

No Golisopod, only Wimpod

[odd kiln]

thats why i said double

[glossy zealot]

what was the winner choice

[odd kiln]

i havent picked

[inner jasper]

There was a double win so I think there is some background talk about how to handle it rn

[main jungle]

Add the monkeys

[glossy zealot]

i see the mods are trying to figure out what to do in this situation, its simple having 2 wins is a incrideble feat so nothing more fair than adding gourgeist as an extra mon in this situation

[royal perch]

double win?

oh as in he won two tournaments?

[strange acorn]

is regitrio just a troll is it legal

[hexed umbra]

Its legal, like all triple fusions. Its just not very good

[strange acorn]

whats the meta

will the tourny be posting usage stats

[true wedge]

So I don’t think we’ll be getting usage stats for the monotype tourney. As for the meta at large (not monotype), bulky regenerator cores and setup sweepers are kind of the name of the game. Also, there is perma-weather, and although swift swim / chlorophyll are complex banned sun and rain and still good (sand and hail exist as well)

[obtuse shoal]

Also entei

Wall breakers like entei v create and nidoking do some work

Also ursanite

There's a bunch of unawares in this game so you'll find them often

[spring lagoon]

crime.

[obtuse shoal]

Air slash?

[obtuse shoal]

Regitu is honestly crazy

Regitu with some unaware can wall almost everything

[obtuse shoal]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=rudihrtd-illusion911-1724714300834&player=illusion

Fun game here

I love using ferro, It's good to use leech seed, and hazards for when they switch, and it punishes a lot of things with iron barbs

however, this is a good example of what happens when their healing outdamages my hazards

Not like ferro wasn't useful here, on the contrary, it was a huge pain for my opponent

[odd kiln]

the best ferro fusions give it actually reliable recovery

[radiant rivet]

how is softboiled not reliable recovery?

[odd kiln]

i didnt go far enough in the replay to see softboiled

but also why are you using leech and softboiled

[obtuse shoal]

leech is good, but they switch often so it doesn't really recover that much

[odd kiln]

thats why its bad

[radiant rivet]

hence why they combined it with rocks, you either switch in and get sapped by leech or you switch around and get worn down by rocks

[odd kiln]

or ur jigrowth and u dont care about either

or ur bounce and u dont care about either

or ur any regen and u dont care about either

leech is comically easy to pp stall with the tools given

[radiant rivet]

that is a weakness of it, but being able to put a timer on steels and deny poison heal arent exactly bad traits

[odd kiln]

is it denying ph when ph users also use roost

and theres a status that puts a timer on steels that isnt removed by them switching out

[radiant rivet]

yes, but burn doesnt deal as much dmg as leech nor does it heal your team like leech does

I am not advocating for leech being busted but for leech having its use cases

[obtuse shoal]

Leech does create a lot of pressure, in some ways it's like toxic

[radiant rivet]

sadly toxic faces the same issues as leech

[odd kiln]

leech does less dmg bc opp switches and takes no dmg

[radiant rivet]

it forces a switch

[odd kiln]

and ur a passive eggthorn who cant take advantage of the switch

[obtuse shoal]

toxic is even worse than seed here
because rn there's so many ways to go against it
steels are legit everywhere

[radiant rivet]

how is setting rocks and knock off passive?

sure they arent offensive

[odd kiln]

bc it makes no progress against common mons

[obtuse shoal]

I do think conja has a point here

it's not like leech seed is bad
but regenerator is just that op that it can ignore hazards

[odd kiln]

in a meta where you can get basically anything you want leech seed is mediocre af

[obtuse shoal]

and ferrothorn would need much more than knock off to do punish some switches

but it's not like tangrowth is much different

it's just as passive as thorn

[radiant rivet]

jiragrowth or tangrowth?

[obtuse shoal]

tangrowth in general

jiragrowth is just an improvement

[radiant rivet]

a significant one

because of U-turn

[obtuse shoal]

any steel tangrowth is good because of the immunity to toxic

[odd kiln]

jigrowth isnt passive bc it clicks uturn on whatever stops it

[radiant rivet]

so the question becomes on how to punish that

[obtuse shoal]

iron barbs

[radiant rivet]

kind of?

[odd kiln]

1/8 chip vs 1/3 healing

[radiant rivet]

then how do you stop a regen pivot from running circles without using your own regen pivot?

Set up?

[odd kiln]

setup, trapping, setting 4 hazards, etc

[radiant rivet]

how to do you trap uturn?

[odd kiln]

double switch

[obtuse shoal]

trapping doesn't trap uturn, and besides, I was going against monoflying there

[radiant rivet]

I dont get that one

[obtuse shoal]

so 4 hazards wasn't an option

[odd kiln]

you have a sylnite which they wall with jigrowth

the turn after you get it in you switch to your trapper when they go jigrowth

jigrowth is now trapped

[radiant rivet]

it Uturns out

[odd kiln]

no you vcreate it first

[radiant rivet]

so you have to be faster

[odd kiln]

well yeah what kinda ass trapper gets outsped

[obtuse shoal]

so you have to be faster, and trap it

[radiant rivet]

magnezone isnt excactly blistering fast

[odd kiln]

were talking about a 66 base spe mon here

zone is 70

if ur trapper is getting outsped by this especially since they probably use -spe and 0 ivs thats a catastrophic skill issue

[radiant rivet]

So perish trap is a joke I assume?

[odd kiln]

its not good

[radiant rivet]

aw man, but it sound so promising

trap it, wait 3 turns, profit

[odd kiln]

or you could ohko in 1 turn

[radiant rivet]

yes you could

I do have a question tho

how do you wall overwheling offense? Things like haxorous with entei or Thyplosion poryz in sun

Like I get that their whole point is to be unwallable, but that state is surely unreachable, right?

[odd kiln]

set rocks and force them out

[radiant rivet]

How does a wall force them out?

[obtuse shoal]

Fire is a type that depends greatly on multipliers

So you fight it with rain and parting shots

[odd kiln]

you force it out offensively or by switching to a strong resist if theyre choiced

[radiant rivet]

Its not about fire specifially, rather just the stacking of mulitpliers, Nidoking/ Mew is also problamit since it can muscle past unawares and jolteon/Blastioise or poryz/Moltres are things you dont want to switch into with rain up

[radiant rivet]

and if they arent?

[odd kiln]

then they do significantly less dmg

[radiant rivet]

V-create is so strong tho

[obtuse shoal]

it really is

But I guess it's the only thing stopping stall for taking over the whole thing

[radiant rivet]

Stall wont make it far with bulky offense being so strong

[obtuse shoal]

otherwise the whole game is just regenerators switching in on each other

[odd kiln]

252 Atk enteihaxorus V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def slowbrodonphan in Sun: 148-175 (37.9 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

[obtuse shoal]

in the sun?

[radiant rivet]

How much dmg does slowbro do to it in return?

[obtuse shoal]

that is a pretty good point

[odd kiln]

0 Atk Slowbro Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 374-444 (108.4 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

[radiant rivet]

with out the drops?

[odd kiln]

why would the drop not be there

it used vcreate

[radiant rivet]

because it might SD when switching in?

since its not running choice, right?

[odd kiln]

so you live +2 anyway and ohko

[radiant rivet]

and the other ones?

tbh my current bane is mew/clef with the QD life orb set

[obtuse shoal]

clefsteel ftw!

[radiant rivet]

tho pextar can switch into it pretty well that is only the case if it runs flammethrower over earthpower

[obtuse shoal]

But I guess this is the point
You can't wall everything

[radiant rivet]

jiragrowth seems to be the solution to all problems tbh

Like I know its not

but it comes close

[obtuse shoal]

although, what's the idea of toxitar
like it's really bulky and can regen, but it doesn't really threaten much does it

[radiant rivet]

its for pursuit

[obtuse shoal]

jiragrowth can sit of things, but doesn't punish much

[odd kiln]

it punishes you by forcing a switch to pivot into something strong

[obtuse shoal]

like yeah, steel grass with regen and uturn is good, but the other guy can just set up

[radiant rivet]

but what if you just dont switch?

[odd kiln]

then it comes back in

[obtuse shoal]

or if it's ursanite, it isn't the way

[radiant rivet]

and starts a regen chain I assume?

[obtuse shoal]

btw has any mon been banned yet because of stall?

[odd kiln]

no

[radiant rivet]

Could specific fusions become bannend?

[odd kiln]

id like to avoid that whenever possible

[radiant rivet]

What needs to happen to a mon or fusion to make it ban worthy?

Be to strong, I know but how does one measure that?

[obtuse shoal]

you see that boomburst has been banned because of noivern porygon and noivern sylveon

I'm thinking that kind of situations

[radiant rivet]

But what makes boomburst different from lets say V-create?

[odd kiln]

vcreate may be a possible suspect candidate in the future but boomburst pretty much necessitated ghosts (which can be pursuit trapped) or steels (which can be magpulled)

[obtuse shoal]

hmm what if I can go psyspam, but with fire

[odd kiln]

thats just sun

[radiant rivet]

Tbf steels and ghost had their trapping issues since gen 2/3 and it hasnt stopped them from being great types

[odd kiln]

when did i say they werent

[obtuse shoal]

so are all grass moves just bad?

[odd kiln]

who said that

[obtuse shoal]

if leech seed is bad, then everything else is bad too because it's easily resisted

like it's ok as coverage

[odd kiln]

leech seed is a status move you cant compare it to attacks

[radiant rivet]

Are spikes good?

[odd kiln]

yes

[obtuse shoal]

But I was using a calm mind suigrowth and giga drain was doing nothing

spikes are pretty good, as long as you're not fighting mono flying

[radiant rivet]

Interesting choice of fusion components tbh

might I ask why these 2 specifically?

[obtuse shoal]

I wanted tangrowth and I thought grass water was a good type (it is)
It's also really good physically, and calm mind patches the special side

however, it got toxicd so much I ended up using sub seed on it

100 121 93 defenses
and then it starts calm minding so not even the special side is safe
and it has regenerator

[radiant rivet]

So it has a common bad match up, regen pivots right?

[obtuse shoal]

more of just grasses

and any toxic

it also had trouble holding back ursanite, so you can just brute force it

though with 100 120 defense, it's got to be a pretty strong force

but as we see, regen pivots are just hard to deal with in general

it's between brute forcing it, set up lots of spikes if they're weak to spikes, or try to set up, although they'll immediately pivot into a counter

[obtuse shoal]

So I guess a regen, spinner and unaware is a great core to have

[delicate gull]

Suigrowth I feel like I have only used as a assualt vest mon

AV makes it even bulkier while it can still status other mons with scald and sludge bomb while having access to knock for nice utility

[ember nova]

My rain team was all fun and games until another weather showed up.

[odd kiln]

the roughest impression of lower tiers, lmk if i missed any mons

https://tiermaker.com/list/video-games/every-pokmon-ever-fall-2020-all-dlc-601526/4308568

actually too many mons in uu need to move shit down so zu is the largest tier

[hexed umbra]

Wait, Smeargle is OU?

[vital sand]

i never thought of it but

Smeargle fused with the right mons that have 120 base attacks would have a 80 base attack with the movepool of a smeargle

idk what im saying but smeargle can just do anything with his movepool huh

[odd kiln]

i would probably put it in ou

[hexed umbra]

Smeargle is the kind of mon to be fairly decent until it turns out theres a single fusion that makes it broken, having every move means it can definitely do something

Without Spore it probably isn't immediately banworthy, I would be down to test it back into the tier

[odd kiln]

the most atk it can have is like this

so its not really that threatening

probably shift gear last over uturn

https://tiermaker.com/list/video-games/every-pokmon-ever-fall-2020-all-dlc-601526/4308632 this is more accurate

[hexed umbra]

Milotic is good but I don't see it too often, mainly because of the 3 regen waters

[odd kiln]

hm thats true

[delicate gull]

What genesect fusion like destroys the meta

[odd kiln]

wait sect doesnt learn shift gear

[hexed umbra]

Just use Genesect, unfused

[delicate gull]

Like literally I think that shit should be in ou if it doesn’t get access to shift gear

[delicate gull]

At that point just use Melo P unfused also

CB Melo P is a force

[odd kiln]

not without a good abil and second stab

ok genesect might be heater in ou i think that might be on my list to suspect unban

reliving the old days

[delicate gull]

Genechomp moment

I don’t understand why people liked this mon that much

[odd kiln]

it was uh fast

p sure it hit most of the big breakers at the time too

[delicate gull]

Me when I ran Scarf Kyojolt

I was probably the only person to run scarf kyojolt

[odd kiln]

eeew

[delicate gull]

💀

[odd kiln]

mega owned by kyogrowth

[delicate gull]

I ran toxic on kyojolt idk how

[hexed umbra]

With an attack boost this thing would hurt

[odd kiln]

eh its walled by the common fairies and flyings

[delicate gull]

Fusion walls just be bulky

That’s why I see genesect not being to much of a problem

Smeargle should be unbanned immediately because that shits stats are super underwhelming

[hexed umbra]

Boomburst light

[odd kiln]

lol

[delicate gull]

Only 96 speed

L mon

[hexed umbra]

Lil baby Boomburster

[delicate gull]

You make so many breakers already

[hexed umbra]

Time to petition for Genesect to get Quiver Dance

[odd kiln]

[delicate gull]

Request Togekiss quiver dance instead

I need to see Quiver Dance Togeking

[odd kiln]

Id die

[delicate gull]

Togeking may be one of the most unreal stall breakers in IF DEX ou already

More people need to use that slow shit

It has nasty plot

Go brrrr

[hexed umbra]

Oh I didnt realise it had Plot

[delicate gull]

People probably had to go against shell smash togeking before shell smash got banned also 💀

[hexed umbra]

Found a teambuilding bug with Smeargle lol

[odd kiln]

which

[hexed umbra]

It lists moves twice

Already made a report

[odd kiln]

lol

[hexed umbra]

Ok just found another teambuilding bug

You can have the same move on your pokemon multiple times

[hexed umbra]

On the topic on unbanning Ubers, what about Deoxys? Its definitely really good, being the fastest pokemon in the game Ninjask isn't real, fantastic coverage and great mixed attacking stats. Its very frail and mostly functions the same as Alakazam, a powerful psychic attacker with paper-thin defences. It also functions as one of the best suicide leads, with access to stealth rock and taunt (not spikes)

[odd kiln]

i dont want to deal with these

[hexed umbra]

Fair enough

[odd kiln]

or these

[delicate gull]

Only other Uber that could maybe be unbanned is like Darkrai but you will just end up getting shit faster hymega only with slighty more spatk

Worse bulk technically tho

[odd kiln]

we tried darkrai

nidoking darkrai is broken

[hexed umbra]

Deoxys-defence would probably be outclassed by Cresselia... if it was in the game

[undone surge]

I wouldn't say so

the more diverse movepool of deo-d is great

and by that i mean

stealth rock, taunt, knock off and the % moves

[hexed umbra]

True, both definitely would have their niches

[vital sand]

I am slightly offended

[hexed umbra]

How so?

[radiant rivet]

The new UU tier looks fascinating.

With a severe lack of Regen pivots, neither Gliscor or Clefable, Entei and Meloetta not available as well as a distinc lack of weather setters, this Tier should play completly differently then OU

[hexed umbra]

I can use one of my OU team members in UU... that's not a good sign

[hexed umbra]

There are weather setters, we have Aurorus and Delibird for hail and Vulpix for sun

[radiant rivet]

That raises a question :

Is the complex ban in effect?
Or can drought be combinend with chlorophyl?

[undone surge]

probably not

its probably like normal tiers where bans in the higher tiers will always also be applied to lower tiers

[gaunt galleon]

what do you do after beating the fuschia city gym?

[undone surge]

why r u asking this in the showdown channel

[gaunt galleon]

i wrote it in the wrong one

[glossy zealot]

do jangmo-o line have a signature move or ability?

[hexed umbra]

Yes, Bulletproof

[undone surge]

clang soul and clang scales

[hexed umbra]

Clangorous soul doesn't exist (and some pokemon already got clanging scales from expert tutor)

[undone surge]

the question was whether they have a sig move or an ability

[hexed umbra]

I'm assuming the intention was new moves or abilities, since this is #showdown-general

[undone surge]

maybe, maybe not 🤷‍♂️

[hexed umbra]

Komo-o is now the bulkiest fighting type, with access to CC and Dragon Dance. Seems a bit outclassed as a dragon type but it seems usable at least

It gets rocks too

[odd kiln]

kommo is a sleeper

v awkward stats

[deft oasis]

agreed

[inner girder]

its stas be awkward but it'll fuse good

[hexed umbra]

Usable, not good. It has enough unique traits to be considered

[undone surge]

reminds me of kyurem when it comes to stats tbh

[deft oasis]

whatever you want it to do, it's probably outclassed by something else

[odd kiln]

fuse good with what

any niche it has offensively as a fighting is outclassed by melop

any niche it has offensively as a dragon is p much outclassed by latios

[hexed umbra]

Defensive fighting type with rocks

[odd kiln]

defensive fighting for what though

[undone surge]

use bewear for defensive fighting

[hexed umbra]

For when you need a dark resist that gets deleted by Hydremega

[undone surge]

Doesnt that have

Tinted lens???

[hexed umbra]

Oh I completely forgot about Bewear, it was so common on ladder for a while but I haven't seen it in ages

Bulletproof is also an ability. It definitely is... an ability.

[deft oasis]

the funniest thing about Bulletproof is the fact that it practically gives you complete immunity to Fighting-type special moves (unfortunately this is almost useless considering the sad state of Fighting special moves)

[hexed umbra]

A shadow ball immunity is nice, until you run into a Mismagius

[sullen ore]

Remind me after the #BinksterSweep that milotic carbink is actually a sick as hell concept and i want to sprite it

[odd kiln]

yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[delicate gull]

Based

[sage sapphire]

What's showdown?

[main jungle]

?tag showdown

[frosty yarrow]

Infinite Fusions Showdown Server : https://play.pokeathlon.com/

[main jungle]

Try it and find out

[strange acorn]

hi

[thick axle]

So how viable would kommo-o probably be? It doesn’t get its funny move cuz it’s a z move, but it’s a pseudo so it isn’t a burden stats wise

[odd kiln]

it will be bad

instant uu tier

[undone surge]

cowards, banned necrozium and latios in uu 😔

[odd kiln]

[vital sand]

UU tournament when?

[odd kiln]

Perhaps.

idk the interest though

[vital sand]

wtf

Sylvern being UU is wild

I remember getting to showdown being bombarded with Pixilate Boomburst

[delicate gull]

Uu Hymega

This things bulk is way worse than hymegas

[vital sand]

[hexed umbra]

Boomburst is banned, thats why Noivern is down here

[deft oasis]

Yep, Sylvern without Boomburst is very manageable

[empty wraith]

guys

can somoene 1v1

in anything goes

I need to do some self promoting

[inner girder]

Considering Boomburst banned

And it’s sig move locked away

It’s offensive power is crippled

[hexed umbra]

Maybe there will be some niche viable fusions with it, but don't expect very much

[vital sand]

I'm sorry but this is just funny

"I've drained his shadow ball PP, now time for me to switch into my own ghost type"
-Banette uses Shadow Ball

[odd kiln]

you might run into the situation though where it clicks sball at 0 pp and it fails

[vital sand]

Yea my scenario is funnier

[ember nova]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=skeepodoop-cdub17-1725039768910

[odd kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/reddit-reddit-gambling-slot-machine-poky-reddit-pokie-gif-15930312603982781181

[ember nova]

Mewfable is so stupid.

[odd kiln]

why are you using mew clefable over clefable mew

[vital sand]

is there a showdown suggestion channel or am i free to say it here?

[odd kiln]

this works

[gusty sigil]

Quagsire in OU, we are so back baybee

https://tenor.com/view/quagsire-quagy-quagsire-quagsire-cheer-gif-18674387

[sharp solar]

hi

[runic hornet]

@umbral island

1v1 me

you wont

pussy(ingame)

[manic sand]

Was natdex doubles AG removed???

[vital sand]

wait

does dark void work in doubles?

considering sleep clause

[odd kiln]

no

[thick axle]

Lurantis gets contrary right? Finally an actual contrary user

[odd kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/sleeping-sleep-dog-dawg-eeper-gif-5083970977419902566

its gonna be mid simply bc the stats are not there

its basically the same problem as shuckle except you trade slightly better spe for much worse def/spd

tbf this does make it a little better than shuckle bc ur grass not rock

[trim herald]

that and

[odd kiln]

but it aint gonna be great

[trim herald]

v-create contrary with entei would boost the def, spdef and speed

it'll be another mon that really screws over new players

[odd kiln]

sure but you dont get any atk boost

[trim herald]

yeah which is very unfortunate

[odd kiln]

thats the thing that makes contrary actually threatening

[trim herald]

it does get superpower as an egg move in actual pokemon but idk how those work here

[odd kiln]

even so you dont break through clef or fat ghosts

of which there are many

i think itll be a niche pick maybe hovering around uubl

i could see it in uu maybe

[opaque inlet]

What about meloetta and super power

[vital sand]

I want abomasnow

Because

It would be funny i think

The ban on snow cloak was because youre scared that ice types are going to dominate your regenerators and v creates

My ninjask speed boost was also banned because you cant comprehend a [close combat] going first before your [toxic orb poison heal]

They silence the strong so they can thrive 😔

I swear if contrary is banned because of band v create then they just want to [waste 500 turns trying to stall out pp]

[hexed umbra]

They should unban Kyogre to nerf stall

[vital sand]

ikr

[odd kiln]

again walled by clef and fat ghosts

[odd kiln]

you havent seen kyogretangrowth

that was one of the cornerstones to my stall in the past if showdown

[odd kiln]

highly doubt it will be banned

[undone surge]

it only gets banned if theres an actual good contrary user

which doesnt exist

rn

[noble notch]

from previous format experience balanced hackmons had to because of how oppressive it was to spam it

[odd kiln]

because you could get atk boosts

[noble notch]

the high base power boosted from either band or sun or whatever multipliers made Mega Blaziken’s contrary V-Creates as great as they were

[odd kiln]

it was vcreate that really broke it it was a combination of that + draco meteor + psycho boost + overheat

[noble notch]

since unaware couldn’t take those high base powers

[odd kiln]

blaziken wasnt the problem it was mmy among other things

and unaware could take it its just that unaware is bad in bh

[noble notch]

same could be said here with mold breaker I’m not sure why the BH logic isn’t applied here

get a taunt + setup and stall gets nuked

[odd kiln]

comparing contrary to mold taunt is crazy

and using bh logic mold taunt would never get banned (as it should, its not remotely broken here)

[noble notch]

It’s initial looks into the metagame given how large the creativity pool is

[noble notch]

I would think that a lot of mons in this don’t have sunsteel or moonghiest so it makes having to route around it harder

[odd kiln]

route around unaware?

[noble notch]

seems a bit rude; but in general yes

[odd kiln]

i was only asking for clarification bc idk what it meant

[tribal trellis]

@odd kiln this is all you yea?

[odd kiln]

Myeah

[tribal trellis]

nice

[astral yacht]

Honestly might start playing showdown

[sullen ore]

terrible sketch because i still gotta resize magmortar kommo-o which is gonna make me explode
i think scarf + bedazzled heart pattern is enough to cook

[odd kiln]

incredible

[sullen ore]

there is literally no middle ground between my sketches
they either take a minute or an hour

[astral yacht]

still waiting to test out my team

[crisp wasp]

How often do completions and stuff happen here? And can someone explain the different tiers?

[odd kiln]

if dex ag: has every mon in if
if dex ou: the standard meta, bans all the broken stuff
if dex uu: the standard meta minus the top mons in ou
if natdex ou: IF if it had all mons

[crisp wasp]

How do you know the meta?

[delicate gull]

anaconja is a council member for all these tiers they seem’t hard to understand

The meta you can maybe find out more about in the Pokeathalon server

[crisp wasp]

Thank you I never got into the competitive side of this

[hexed umbra]

Finally, a physdef fairy type

[crisp wasp]

does any one have a UU team they want to play with

[crystal elbow]

Hey, does the Infinite Fusions Showdown thing work properly rn?

Tried accessing it just now and it just came up with error after error.

[odd kiln]

which errors

[crystal elbow]

Nvm I'm an idiot

Apparently I was just on the wrong entire website

[odd kiln]

lol

[crystal elbow]

I had a website that was like— psim infinitefusions or something bookmarked? Instead of the pokeathlon one.

[edgy dust]

Sep, This is definitely a fusion between Batiodon and Abomasnow

[unborn pine]

Where can we submit randbats sets?

[unborn pine]

and is that still a thing

[odd kiln]

#1070127200906510336 message

[unborn pine]

thanks

[haughty plaza]

i wanna get into the competitive scene but i dont know what im doing any tips

[odd kiln]

how much experience do you have

[haughty plaza]

practically none

snpzbgigjsdfn

[odd kiln]

how about experience with just playing mons in general

[haughty plaza]

again, not much at all

[odd kiln]

i think id advise trying random battles at first

[haughty plaza]

okkkk

[odd kiln]

get a feel for what mons run, what sets are potentially good, what moves to pick in each situation

[odd kiln]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=loapher-baseballed-1725495525810
some tips you could use:

• slowphan against armgrigus means itll most likely use eq, so you can switch into hawlmence/roitar/latios/weavzing as theyre all immune to ground (probably hawlmence best bc it has ddance to capitalize on a likely forced switch)
• ig it might make sense if you clicked flying press t6 in case high jump kick missed but id rather click hjk to ensure it actually kos
• t7: pay attention to speed (you can look at a pokemon's speed by highlighting their sprite in the center or the icon on the side); togelade claimed two kills because of this (though to be fair you didn't have great fairy resists in the first place)

[cedar thorn]

why are t he showdown abilities so different from the game

[odd kiln]

@haughty plaza if you didnt see

[vital sand]

Are you on Nat Dex or IF Dex?

IF Dex have different abilities than the Nat Dex, most prominent example is like Chandelure having Shadow Tag instead of Infiltrator

[cedar thorn]

theres no slither king in the game and no opening show

[odd kiln]

wrong fusion meta

[cedar thorn]

lol

[vital sand]

I was confused when you said slither king because im not too familiar with the other game modes myself

[cedar thorn]

its ok 😭

[odd kiln]

jimcools vid has the correct link

[dusky hearth]

how do i enter the infinite fusion server?

[vital sand]

u mean play showdown?

It's in the pinned, first message

#showdown-general message

[dusky hearth]

ty !!

[obtuse shoal]

So
How does garg work in NAT dex

[obtuse shoal]

I tried a garg ferrothorn mix and it worked pretty well
With leech seed recover and salt cure

And stealth rock

[hexed umbra]

Luckily Greninja has a special attack stat of 103 so Protean should be entirely manageable

[serene arch]

how would i submit a randbats set

[hexed umbra]

^

[serene arch]

it says i dont have access

[inner girder]

so did they ban battle bond yet?

[hexed umbra]

#showdown-announcements message
(Submission form)

[odd kiln]

battle bond doesnt need to be banned bc it doesnt exist in the first place

[inner girder]

Someone hasn’t seen announcements

[odd kiln]

i did see but the mon isnt in showdown

it does not exist yet

we dont know if battle bond exists in the first place either

[hexed umbra]

Battle Bond Greninja is an event exclusive ability in the main series, like Own Tempo Rockruff

[unborn pine]

Battle bond is an event from sm demo, you can't get it

[floral wadi]

Does anyone play IF natdex OU? seems fun but also seems like not enough people online to do non-random battles

[obtuse shoal]

I'm down

[obtuse shoal]

I just realized how good pursuit+fighting is

[hexed umbra]

Did anything come of the (sort of) notion for unbanning Smeargle and/or Genesect?

[obtuse shoal]

why was smeargle banned?

[hexed umbra]

I didn't play before it was banned, but it would have had access to Spore at the very least

[delicate gull]

There is no reason for sneargle to be banned ngl

It’s stats are so bad

And a lot of the broken moves it has are banned

Actually even if shell smash was unbanned smeargle fusions still wouldn’t even be the best ones

[odd kiln]

i unbanned smeargle

i might release a genesect suspect soon

[obtuse shoal]

a volcarona suspect would be fun

it probably wouldn't last though

[odd kiln]

why would i do that

suspecting a mon that has no business in ou rn

[obtuse shoal]

It wasn't a serious request

[delicate gull]

Volcarona is hell on earth

To many stupid fusions that mon can have

[obtuse shoal]

Just switching that bug for grass changes everything

[hexed umbra]

Currently there's really only one good Quiver Dance user in Hymega (it outclasses basically everything else), with some fringe Celebi here and there

Adding another pokemon with fantastic stats and Quiver Dance... no

[obtuse shoal]

Or mew clefable
I've seen that too

[delicate gull]

Jynx Nidoking can technically put in work

If frosmoth wasn’t a Gen 8 pokemon that copium wouldn’t exist

[obtuse shoal]

I'm thinking that hymega might be the Mon that gets the most boosts here
Yanmega ditches the bug type and gets dark, and oblivion wing
And quiver dance and tinted lens

[delicate gull]

Hymega is one of the best breakers in the tier

Probably near the best

[obtuse shoal]

It's up there with ursanite

[hexed umbra]

Hymega is one of the best []

[delicate gull]

You can run it with d pulse heat wave or taunt depending on what you need

[delicate gull]

Problem with ursanite is that it can be shut down

[hexed umbra]

Roost too

[obtuse shoal]

How?

It's got really strong facades, priority and roost

[hexed umbra]

Decently fast ghosts/normal resists

[delicate gull]

chost types and bulky defensive unaware mons

[delicate gull]

Oh your using facade

[obtuse shoal]

Ursanite facades through unawares

[delicate gull]

That’s when you run facade

What do you drop

[hexed umbra]

I run SD/E-speed/Facade/Eq, though I change the last move every 5 battles lol

[obtuse shoal]

There's eq roost and crunch/shadow claw, and sd

And espeed

[hexed umbra]

Espeed is mandatory

[delicate gull]

Seems like them bulky ghost types are gonna have fun

[obtuse shoal]

It's not like it's the only mon with 4 moveslot syndrome

[delicate gull]

Eh you can run pure DD

[hexed umbra]

Guts Espeed with no boosts is too valuable

[odd kiln]

ursanite is powerful but gets worn down reaaaally fast

[delicate gull]

Rocks weakness burn chip

[hexed umbra]

I can't agree more, if only it wasn't flying lol

[delicate gull]

Fatter bulkier mons normally stall it out

[odd kiln]

thats why i use dragoring instead sometimes

[delicate gull]

They almost do the same dmg ngl

[odd kiln]

along with rock neutral elec neutral fire resist

[obtuse shoal]

Speaking of ghost types
What do you guys think of them

I feel like defensive cores run around steel, water, and flying
Ghost feel very separate, and it will hit a lot of things neutral

[delicate gull]

Ghost types are very good

Doublade gets spectral thief

So

Doublade fusions are a big part of the meta

[obtuse shoal]

I've had success going nidoking gengar
Sheer force shadow ball is strong

[hexed umbra]

Aegislash too
Gengar and Mismag are the main offensive ghosts

[delicate gull]

Nidoking gengar has like near almost no switch ins

[obtuse shoal]

It has one
Hymega

Until it catches an ice beam

Or just any levitating dark

[hexed umbra]

Mismagius gets Nasty Plot, Moongeist Beam and levitate in exchange for less speed and immideate power

[delicate gull]

I haven’t seen that many hydreigon tentacruels

[obtuse shoal]

Gengar has nasty plot too

[delicate gull]

Also a lot of things are fake nidoking switchins in the first place

[obtuse shoal]

Some times I just put one when I have no idea what to put
And it ends up sweeping

Nasty plot dark pulse roost and something
Maybe sludge bomb, or rapid spin, or toxic spikes

It's just versatile

[hexed umbra]

It gets overwhelmed fairly easily imo, it really needs black sludge recovery while being your knock off switchin

[obtuse shoal]

That's very true

[hexed umbra]

It is a spinner that threatens ghosts though, which is nice

[delicate gull]

Main spinner is like Slowphan

[obtuse shoal]

I wasn't even using it as a spinner
For me it was just an extra mon

[delicate gull]

What other spinenrs do people run like other donphan fusions

[obtuse shoal]

For me it's latiatress
It's got 1 weakness in fighting

[delicate gull]

I have seen toxaphan

[odd kiln]

slowphan 2

toxaphan sounds like it blows

[delicate gull]

True

It’s probably ass

I just have seen it tho

[odd kiln]

theres donapex but idk if its better than slowphan/slowphan

donscor exists too theoretically

poor mans great scor

[obtuse shoal]

Water casually having 3 regenerators because why not

[hexed umbra]

Unlikely, donphan is head

[delicate gull]

Donscor feels like a poor use of a gliscor slot

[opaque inlet]

I prefer toxaphan cause I can’t get poisoned

[hexed umbra]

Corsola (it's very viable trust)

[odd kiln]

who cares about psn ur regen

[obtuse shoal]

4 regenerators then

[odd kiln]

the downside of getting hit by ground is huge

while also missing out on being fire resistant

[hexed umbra]

I wish we could run multiple Gliscor, Gliscor/Toxapex is a great regen pivot

[delicate gull]

Then you also lose a Toxatar slot

[obtuse shoal]

Ground has to fight off flying, levitate, and air balloon and you still don't want to be weak to it

[odd kiln]

run gligar toxapex

gg

[hexed umbra]

Note to self see how much worse that bulk is tomorrow

[odd kiln]

it should be net better bc eviolite

[delicate gull]

Idk what fusion I’m I even using as a Toxapex fusion over Toxatar

AV Toxatar is just the goat

[obtuse shoal]

How much does life orb nidoking earth power deal to it

[hexed umbra]

AV Regipex also good, passive but so much utility

[obtuse shoal]

With gengar

[odd kiln]

regipex sounds like worse jirapex

[obtuse shoal]

Btw
Thought on regi moltres?
Fishing for Burns

[odd kiln]

its alright

[delicate gull]

People have already been running it

[obtuse shoal]

I'm between regi moltres and ferrothorn

[hexed umbra]

It's been on my team since the very beginning, I have a bit of a soft spot for it now

[odd kiln]

⚾💬

[delicate gull]

[obtuse shoal]

It feels like if you're running physical
You have to worry about burns constantly

[delicate gull]

Imagine worrying about burns when my main physical attacker has pheal

Or it’s a fire type

Because it’s fused with Entei

🗿

[obtuse shoal]

Or... It's gliscor

Ah pheal

Or, it's ursanite

[hexed umbra]

I sure hope there's nothing to wear down my fire type every time it switches in

[delicate gull]

Ursanite when they run into helmet mons they get so cooked

[hexed umbra]

Ribombee seems like an interesting mon, it also gets QD and Tinted Lens, a faster but frailer yanmega

[odd kiln]

ribombee doesnt have lens

[hexed umbra]

And webs I guess

[obtuse shoal]

Speaking of guts
What about the fastest guts, swellow

[delicate gull]

Ribombee doesn’t have lens whar

All Ribombee would do

[odd kiln]

swellow doesnt have normal so i sleep

[delicate gull]

Is be a fast webs setter

[obtuse shoal]

Is sticky web

[hexed umbra]

I was thinking of Pokerogue

[delicate gull]

Imagine still playing pokerogue

[hexed umbra]

Just 1 more attempt
Just 1 more attempt
Just 1 more attempt

[delicate gull]

I was into to the game for like 2 weeks then just stopped playing after I cleared endless once and beat some of the evil team leaders

[obtuse shoal]

I started playing that 2 days ago

Guts swellow doing work I swear
Needs more facade though

[hexed umbra]

I'm going for all achievements (mono types and mono gens)

[delicate gull]

I have a few red shinys in pokerogue also

[obtuse shoal]

I only found throh

[delicate gull]

I somehow didn’t get dragon energy on my miraidon so I’m pissed

That’s probably what made me quit the game 💀

[obtuse shoal]

But back to this one
I've been feeling like bulky ghosts are pretty bad
They only work for wisp and have no recovery

[delicate gull]

I used so many vouchers on miraidon just to get every special move except dragon energy

[hexed umbra]

Ghosts have terrible movepools, they really only contribute the typing

[delicate gull]

Saying bulky ghosts are bad is unreal

[obtuse shoal]

I've been having more luck with offensive ghosts

[delicate gull]

Doublade is in ou

Because spectral thief is that good

You can fuse it with salamance boom recovery

Or with clef book recovery

Or with a regen mon

[odd kiln]

to a lesser extent cofagrigus/dusclops provide mummy and bulk respectively

[delicate gull]

.-.

[odd kiln]

umbreon cofagrigus is a very effective ursanite/snorcor counter

[delicate gull]

The only Cofag mon I have used was fused with Umbreon

[hexed umbra]

I've never seen a single typed mon in IF OU before

[delicate gull]

In the Snorcor dominance meta

[obtuse shoal]

I heard snorcor wasn't used that much anymore

Why is that

[odd kiln]

heard from who

[delicate gull]

Snorcor is still used a lot whar

It’s just less dominant

[obtuse shoal]

Nevermind then

[delicate gull]

Because people actually try to play around it

💀