showdown-general

[fast blade]

I use that in electric terrain with seed

[deft oasis]

the popular Jirachi/Tangrowth fusion seems pretty good at it with Assault Vest: even a +6 Leaf Storm from Ampharos/Sceptile wouldn't do half HP damage

of course the tradeoff is that relying on AV for special bulk means having practically no recovery aside from Regenerator

[steep plover]

true

but what does it do back exactly

[deft oasis]

I'd imagine its best bet for damage is probably U-turn

which admittedly isn't that good

Hawlucha/Salamence also gets the same STAB with a much better attack stat, but unfortunately it doesn't have a custom sprite yet

[fast blade]

Oh you're right Hawlucha gets acrobatics

You could try dragonite if all you need is flying type+high attack

[warped veldt]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=mkap-nabbooffline-1701368877457

This is getting outta hand!

Now there's two Snorlax/Gliscor!

[steep plover]

two?

a couple days ago I hopped into a couple battles and I kid you not, almost all of them degenerated into SD/Facade Snorcor tearing through a team

[warped veldt]

Yeah, pretty much.

I fought MKap and won, somehow.

Lucky crit Ice Beam

So who's gonna be the first to run a Trick Pecha Berry Steel fusion?

[steep plover]

haha

nah I just have knock off or willo on 5/6 mons and spam it in paranoid fashion, I'm good (not)

[warped veldt]

Most mentally stable IF showdown player

I love my Knock Off I love my Knock Off I love my Knock Off

[steep plover]

I mean, that's pretty much every format with knock off in it

wall? knock off. setup sweeper? knock off. choice specs user? believe it or not, also knock off.

[warped veldt]

What if I

Sticky Hold

[steep plover]

then get ready to eat Dark-Type EQs every turn

[warped veldt]

Ha!

[inner jasper]

Yeah Snorcor is pretty popular. My Umbzing loves uno-reversing them with Foul Play

[warped veldt]

Can it really tank/outspeed it?

[inner jasper]

outspeed no, tank enough to get the job done and mines more focused in Sp Def than def (gonna change that the more I think of it).

[inner jasper]

Testing it nevermind, it can live one SD Facade and deal just above half their HP back. I've definitely used it before to some success but its not gaurenteed

It helps to have something fast in the back to get the finish

[fast blade]

Wait it still let's you use foul play?

That's a bug unless you're Krookodile or a couple other niche mons

Umbreon gets it via move tutor so it shouldn't be legal in move tutor

[inner jasper]

It's under Umbreon's normal moveset

[inner jasper]

It was a move it got at lv 1 in BDSP, not sure what dex we are pulling the moves from

[frigid frost]

sumo iirc

and not ultra

[fast blade]

Gen 7

Yeah it's a bug

@fast elm I thought you fixed all of the move tutor discrepancies?

[fast blade]

Yeah all the ultra tutors don't exist in game so

[wispy ember]

which move

Parting shot?

[wispy ember]

if it's about the island move tutor

it requires a fusion

[frigid frost]

foul play for umbreon

[wispy ember]

is a tutor move in Gen 7

Pokemon essentials PBS for gen 7 has FOULPLAY as a tutor move

not a bug then

Is there not a tutor in the game for it tho?

[frigid frost]

dont know tbh

[wispy ember]

It's not listed on the wiki

but god knows if it's accurate

[inner jasper]

So is it good or should I look for a new move

[fast blade]

There definitely is not a foul play move tutor I can assure that

It's not possible to get foul play on umbreon in this game

[hexed umbra]

So pokemon should have the gen7 tutor moves as illegal (unless the same move is a tm/tutor in IF)

[fast blade]

Yes.

[lime wren]

anyone got an AG team I can give a friend to play with me

literally any team

[odd kiln]

umbreon truly becomes worst mon on team

[hoary dune]

inf dex or nat dex

[lime wren]

inf dex

[hoary dune]

bet, sending in dms

[wispy ember]

@steep plover so, thanks to your idea

I am now here

[hexed umbra]

Is Foul Play a tutor in IF?

[fast blade]

No

I promise you it's not possible to get foul play umbreon

[fast blade]

What was the idea

[wispy ember]

a funny one

[odd kiln]

5 imposters

and a zoroark for some reason

[wispy ember]

Well the idea of the zoroark is

Imposter can not transform into illusions or substitutes

if I meet an "unprepared" team of x6 wobbuffet/ditto or blissey/ditto, that is what seals the deal

if I meet someone who already uses illusion, I can whirlwind it out of the way and freely transform into the thing that comes up

the team is not fool-proof whatsoever, but it sure is fun beating others with their own teams

[vivid junco]

Nat dex tournament in 12 minutes if anyone wants to join

[hoary canopy]

Looking for a good head that knows Trick or Switcheroo for a Gligar Body. Gengar?

[white oar]

wouldn't you want something tankier?

[frigid frost]

can always just search trick and then search switcheroo in showdowns search function

[white oar]

i assume you just wanna toxic someone

[frigid frost]

clefable, jirachi, latios, latias, mimikyu, togekiss, cofagrigus, and mismagius all offer different things w trick

as well as high special stats to pass w the head

also do you mean gligar or gliscor

switcheroo doesnt really seem like it offers many interesting heads, but same move anyhow so

[white oar]

truthfully it looks like a bad idea because of the typing options

[frigid frost]

wdym

steel/flying is good

fairy/flying is good

[white oar]

was looking a like the top five hps and spd

jirachi is fine to be fair

[frigid frost]

oh i am now realizing

if u want to use poison heal

u cant use steel/flying as a typing anyways

https://tenor.com/view/taiho-shichau-zo-teehee-anime-youre-under-arrest-ova-gif-21342147

[white oar]

lol

[frigid frost]

this is fine tho

[white oar]

it is

just like

eh

also

#showdown-teambuilding

pretty convinced we should make sample teams at somepoint

[median thunder]

I was about to say 😭

the I think ppl should just toxic if they want to poison someone

shrimply

[frigid frost]

yeah

LOL

trick has some funny applications of like

getting lefties while you have poison heal on

but

how worth it is

definitely remains to be seen

lol

[white oar]

it's one of those match up things

agaisnt stall it's like the best thing to happen to you

agaisnt offense it's useless

[median thunder]

personally I would rather click knock 32 times

[white oar]

debating how to revive showdown because I have been queuing for 7 minutes

[tiny wadi]

Best Poison Heal fusions I've seen around are Snorlax/Gliscor (Normal/Flying), Snorlax/Breloom (Normal/Fighting), and Gliscor/Toxapex (Ground/Water).

First one is mainly good because of the sheer bulk it possesses plus STAB 140 BP Facade with Toxic Orb active. Snorlax/Breloom has less bulk, but priority Mach Punch to counter the low speed and Strength Sap for reliable, strong recovery that also weakens foes. Gliscor/Toxapex is mainly just normal Gliscor but with more bulk an a 4x weakness to Grass instead of Ice.

I've also occasionally seen Gliscor/Dragonite or even Dragonite/Gliscor but I don't think it's really that good. Dragonite gets a lot more immediate power from other fusions and if you really want status immunity on a physical sweeper, just fuse it with Ursaring with a Flame Orb for STAB Guts-boosted Extreme Speed. Attack is much higher too.

[odd kiln]

u forgot that snorcor is weak to rocks while snoloom isnt and snoloom has significantly higher atk

[tiny wadi]

Yes that's true as well.

[odd kiln]

also mach punch is p bad on it

[tiny wadi]

Gliscor in general makes the better defensive fusions while Breloom makes nice offensive ones.
Problem is that Poison Heal is much more of a defensive ability so Breloom needs a fusion that does a lot of heavy lifting to make the most of it, especially since it doesn't have the utility of Spore since that's banned in OU.

[odd kiln]

which snorlax does

[tiny wadi]

Yep

And unlike Gliscor Breloom has two good abilities so it's not like it's shoehorned into just using Poison Heal. Technician is always fun to play with.

[tribal trellis]

Anyone wants to join an if draft? if we do a single drafting session it will be on <t:1701547200:F>

[tribal trellis]

this should be your time

[cedar mortar]

If I didn’t have dnd at that time I would have been super down :/

If that changes in the next couple days I’ll be down

[tribal trellis]

okok

so mabye it just won't be a single session than

[cedar mortar]

The weekends are normally not very good for me as a lot of people like to try to hang with me both in and out if the internet but Sunday would work best for me if I know what time ahead of time

[regal tundra]

Question, does Stance Change affect stats in this? My Blislash has 140 base Special Attack in Blade forme, a Modest nature and max EVs and yet it has only 254 Sp. Attack

[tribal trellis]

it doesn't show the change

but it does change

[regal tundra]

But it does super low damage

[tribal trellis]

wait what are you talking about? modest and evs won't translate to spA in blade form

it will be the spD

[regal tundra]

I thought only the base stats changed, that EVs and nature stayed on the same stat?

[tribal trellis]

hmm

one sec

[tribal trellis]

yea ok

so what's the problem than?

that you can't see the blade form stats on teambuilder?

like you are saying that this is a problem?

this is correct

it's just shield form

[regal tundra]

That's how it was

[tribal trellis]

it works fine

blade is just only in battle

[regal tundra]

So SpA EVs and nature move to SpDef in Blade forme?

[tribal trellis]

no

everything is correct

when you attack in battle

it will use the correct stat

[regal tundra]

It still felt like it should be doing more damage tho
I just tried, its shadow ball couldn't even OHKO a wobuffet/aggron

[tribal trellis]

wobgron sounds like one of the bulkiest fusions

[regal tundra]

Not in SpDef tho

Its only a physical tank

[tribal trellis]

still can max ev spD use nature and has 150 base hp

[regal tundra]

Ok i just tried moving the EVs into SpDef and now it does more damage, i fought the same Pokémon on the same team 2 times, once before and once after the change

Shadow ball both times
Neither were crits
The former did 30-something %, the latter did like 49 %
Seems like too much of a difference for damage rolls to be the culprit

And Aurora Veil was active on their side so even if I missed the critical hit note, i would've noticed

[tribal trellis]

ok yes you are correct

also stance change does not work after switching

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=ishallnotusename-skippr-1701425360704

@pure breach

@fast elm

[tribal trellis]

mabye im just stupid but i think it should keep blade form no?

or do you have to king's shield

[regal tundra]

Nobody switched though
Both my Blislash and the opponent's Aurorus/Froslass were the first Pokemon we sent out

[tribal trellis]

yea it's a diffrent problem

i said you are correct

on the the stance not being base stats

like it should be

[regal tundra]

It reverts to shield forme immediately before switching

[tribal trellis]

yea but it should go to blade after the attack

after the switch

[regal tundra]

So if I understand you correctly, Stance Change doesn't work?

[tribal trellis]

not correctly

im making a report

nice catch

[regal tundra]

Ok, that's what i wanted to know, thank you

[tribal trellis]

i tested stance change yesterday to see if it works

but only as baseline it does

not correctly

[pure breach]

You’re right that it seems to have broken on switching

Thanks for letting us know

[opal fiber]

So you have to invest in the bulk stat for Aegislash?

[regal tundra]

Appearently, atleast for now

[pure breach]

Yeah you gotta invest in Defense

Because the whole stat swaps

[fast elm]

not just for now

i've been told multiple times that thats how it works in game

the only unintended effect is the one that happens after switching

[tribal trellis]

Ok, i thought it swapped the stats but frostyke said it was base stats and quick google search said it was base so idk

[pure breach]

Regular stance change does (changes formes which have reversed stats), but in IF it swaps stats as far as we’ve been told

[wispy ember]

@pure breach shouldn't this be ghost/fire?

[steep plover]

from what I gather, the fusion's type is head's first type and body's second type

[wispy ember]

thing is

Frog removed the "if same type, body/head doesn't give off secondary"

[steep plover]

and if they are the same you get a monotype

[wispy ember]

yeah, that's not the case in game anymore

[steep plover]

interesting

[wispy ember]

or not

sounds like a #1142871804269052004 to me

[pure breach]

Iirc in the changelog has the interaction right, I remember talking about it with Yoshi

Where only the body can shed the first type if it shares the second type with the user. In this case the body is Mismagius which does not have a second type, so it won’t shed any other types that aren’t ghost

The head is always first type

[fast blade]

Not in 6.0 according to patch notes

[fast blade]

Is this in 6.0?

[wispy ember]

6.0.4

[flint kayak]

why is it that whenever you win a battle you get like 8 elo but when ever you lose you lose like 15 elo

[pure breach]

The elo you gain / lose depends on the difference between the two of you

Beating someone that’s 200 elo under you gets you little elo, beating someone with 200 elo above you gets you more

In a small ladder that effect is really noticeable because the more you climb the less elo you get, as you become one of the people with most elo out of everyone fighting

[flint kayak]

i lost ~3 games and went from 1400 to 1350

[frigid frost]

elo is basically a measure of who should win

if elo says "you should be winning >80% of the time" you're gonna gain none when you win, and tank a lot when you lose

because if you win, why should you gain any? that's what was supposed to happen. vs if you lose, why shouldn't you lose a ton? that was not at all what was expected.

elo systems are kinda wild in a format as small as this because the likelihood you face someone whos not super high but could be around your skill level in reality is very high

[strange adder]

Small metas on smogon really don't look much into ladder elo

Usually they focus more on tournaments for meta balance/meta trends and VR ranking

[frigid frost]

yeah, whilst the elo system for formats as small as these can be useful in asking some questions, they oft arent genuinely accurate lol

[flint kayak]

anyways anyone up for ffa

[warped veldt]

Finally getting some wins.

I'm good at IF OU

[fast blade]

I love running Togekiss/Pikachu with shelll smash+Light Ball

the ultimate glass cannon

[steep plover]

wait, toge gets shell smash?

(banned in IF dex OU)

[frigid frost]

iirc there's a shell smash tm in if

[steep plover]

balanced

[fast blade]

Yup

[fast blade]

No that's not true

There's a shell smash move tutor

[frigid frost]

oh

close enough

👻

[fast blade]

Not the same

[rough rapids]

oh that's me

[wispy ember]

sure is

[lime wren]

is there sleep clause in this?

[frigid frost]

yep

[odd kiln]

most normal game on if showdown

[fast blade]

Wild sprites

[vague veldt]

I'm sorry what is Showdown?

[verbal pine]

pokemon showdown

[vague veldt]

But what is it?

[verbal pine]

a web based game on the competitive pokemon scene

you can teambuild

and test out teams

for diff formats

[vague veldt]

How do I play it?

[verbal pine]

go to https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/

and make an acc

[vague veldt]

But what does it have to do with Infinite Fusion?

[verbal pine]

They have their own pokemon showdown which you can play on with fusions

[odd kiln]

why did you link vanilla showdown

https://play.pokeathlon.com/ is if showdown

[verbal pine]

i thought they were asking about normal showdown

[hexed umbra]

Snorlax/Espeon? I'm so confused at why they chose this

[deft oasis]

When someone uses Espeon, most of the time it's because they want Magic Bounce. Normal and Psychic also have some nice defensive synergy with each other, but being weak to both U-Turn and Knock Off is pretty bad.

[hexed umbra]

It's an espeon fusion that isn't fast or powerful and a Snorlax fusion that isn't bukky

[deft oasis]

I wouldn't call 128 HP and 105 SpDef "not bulky", but you are right in that it is frail on the physical side. Nothing it can't fix with Curse, I guess?

[mighty geode]

Weeee

[strange adder]

Ah was the server updated?

I see huge power banned and trio fusions have their stats nerfed/fixed

[steep plover]

Gliscor getting the Kingambit treatment

[fast elm]

writing a changelog

[wispy ember]

wait

them triples got giga nerfed

[steep plover]

honestly, I won't miss them lol

[warped veldt]

They sure existed

[strange adder]

I will miss Zapmoltcuno

Extremely good mon that dies to a single hazard was funny

[warped veldt]

I'd make the Stealth Rock joke, but I've only used it twice and it somehow got old.

[strange adder]

Its probably still usable honestly but dropping the 100 Speed to 92 is very painful

The Johto triple got absolutely slaughtered tho

[warped veldt]

I forgot it existed

Sorry I'm busy murdering stuff with my cool and epic Togekiss/Raikou

[strange adder]

It was kinda too slow for the meta in a lot of ways but it's old stats with Sheer Force just rolled slower balance teams

[warped veldt]

Imagine running a slow Balance team

[strange adder]

Togekiss/Raikou very good

[warped veldt]

He's soooo cute I love him

[tiny wadi]

Azumarill and Marill were unbanned and Huge Power was banned.

So now we can make Water/Ground types with Sap Sipper, but Azurill/Dragonite is dead, lol.

Lucario/Kangaskhan and Urasing/Dragonite will probably pick up in usage now.

[deft oasis]

Sap Sipper Azumarill/Steelix stonks

[tiny wadi]

Neat alternative to Pyukumuku/Steelix.

[rough rapids]

that's sick

[tiny wadi]

Although it doesn't get Recover.

[deft oasis]

yeah I just realised it has no recovery at all

[tiny wadi]

Azumarill/Sandyghast works with Wil-O-Wisp and Shore Up.

Not as much sheer bulk though.

[rough rapids]

spd ????

freeze dry gaming

if high enough you can run water compact as mix up weaknees policy

[tiny wadi]

Not many mons get access to Freeze Dry. Only Zapmolticuno is really relevant, and it takes 100% if rocks are up.

Aurorus fusions get it too but they'd probably rather be shooting Refrigerate Boomburst if they can.

[rough rapids]

fair

[fast blade]

No announcement?

[tiny wadi]

Didn't see one. Just saw that Huge Power is blocked now during team creation in OU.

Thought Huge Power would be banned since Azurill was seeing use, so didn't come as too much of a surprise.

Was theory-crafting Lucario/Kangaskhan and Ursaring/Dragonite sets for the eventuality.

[pure breach]

Yoshi was writing a changelog but got busy

basically Huge Power is banned, Azu is now free

and triple fusions now suck

[hoary dune]

What happened to triple fusions?

[tribal trellis]

correct stats

and not take the highest of every mon

[hoary dune]

Ohhh ok

[thick axle]

I will miss you 3 stab sheerfoce wallbreaker

[steep plover]

I think you might be unaware of something here

imo levitating Dark/Poisons like Umbzing fill the "funny mon with no weakness" niche a lot better

[fast blade]

Most min/maxed Gen 2 pokemon:

[steep plover]

(don't listen to that fraud, this set is GOATed)

[tiny wadi]

I’m aware. Just nice to have some funny diversity even if it’s niche.

Plus Pyukumuku/Steelix also gets Unaware, so that’s a huge plus for it and much more useful than Sap Sipper.

[twilit lark]

I need yall to send me some teams rn

I only got a screens HO team and I kinda raw sun team on me rn

@grave barn @astral yoke

@odd kiln

[rough rapids]

full team https://pokepast.es/b19b69ac3461308e , plus replay of it kinda workin and losing https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=razzes-cybervamplucy-1701533623849

[tiny wadi]

Funny enough that's most of my teams right now too, lol.

This is my main screens team. Sylnine can be swapped out for Ursaring/Dragonite or Lucario/Kangaskhan. Mainly just there for priority and speed control.
https://pokepast.es/1eaed513b47a76ea

[astral yoke]

???

I mean just pick some random triple regenerate stall team

[twilit lark]

I dont got one on me rn

slide one over

[twilit lark]

pause, 2 choice mons on a screens HO team?

[astral yoke]

i haven't been playing on showdown, so idk what's the latest one.
I suppose u could try copying Anaconja's team, but i'm not at liberty to say what it was i fought before

[tiny wadi]

Poryeon only really needs to click one move, lol.

[rough rapids]

also have this https://pokepast.es/82fafd0f37af24cd

[twilit lark]

this is the team Im using rn, and the team I sent freezai https://pokepast.es/0b6003e9f92aad47

[tiny wadi]

And like I said, Sylnine is for speed control. I was just testing it out when I made that team but I'm probably switching to Ursaring/Dragonite.

[twilit lark]

eh fair ig

[twilit lark]

and where anaconja's team at

[warped veldt]

I could send you my Sticky Web offense team when I get home.

It's not the most optimal, but it does work.

Since I did go out of my way to not use meta mons lol

[twilit lark]

oh its for a pchal invitational

[warped veldt]

woag

PChal? That's cool.

[astral yoke]

Idk what's his current team, but i suppose this is the one i fought
https://pokepast.es/28f0dc11043a4f41

Generally the core of his team features triple regenerate, an unaware Clefable fusion, and 2 fillers, generally stallers

Some people on the ladder uses something similar, triple regenerate, and whatever they want.

[warped veldt]

Triple Regen....

what a gamer

[astral yoke]

Yeah, until Ability Clause comes into play, they're not going anywhere.

[warped veldt]

Maybe that's what should be added next lol

[tiny wadi]

Full Volt-Turn/Regenerator teams are a thing and they're real annoying.

[astral yoke]

It is possible to have quad regenerators, but idk why i never saw any1 using it

[rough rapids]

5 right with evolite tangela

[warped veldt]

Fear

[steep plover]

https://pokepast.es/eedadd085ab19bdd

(opponents won't use VCreate Leafeon/Entei, trust)

[tiny wadi]

lel

V-Create Leafeon/Entei is a menace.

[rough rapids]

entei jirachi scraf plus 5 regen

[warped veldt]

Stop

[tiny wadi]

Entei was never a top mon until it learned the fusion dance.

Also V-Create. Mostly V-Create.

[steep plover]

where can I send my team?

[tiny wadi]

Just share here I think.

[steep plover]

cool

[rough rapids]

anyone want's build this

[warped veldt]

[steep plover]

biggest draw to this is altaria in the thumbnail /s

[rough rapids]

entei doesn't even need v create for this team lets be real, sacred fire/ironhead is all it needs

v create would make too much progress

[steep plover]

btw what discord server is this in

[twilit lark]

freezai's

[steep plover]

oh ok

[tiny wadi]

For some reason the update gave Rapid Spin Gen8+ mechanics.

Now Rapid Spin boosts speed and removes hazards, whereas yesterday it just removed hazards.

[tiny wadi]

Just tried this team out a few times and by god it's evil, lol

Nobody seems to realize Altaria gets Natural Cure.

[steep plover]

that's why I picked Alt specifically

Natural Cure, Defog, and a FGW resist

[vivid junco]

Oh blunder joined pokeathlon and asked for teams

[fast blade]

I miss espeed Entek😭

[tiny wadi]

If Entei had Extremespeed then Arcanine wouldn't have a niche.

It's already struggling to compete with Dragonite.

[deft oasis]

Technically Arcanine does have DDance and some useful abilities compared to Entei, so there's still some use for it I guess

[strange adder]

You would probably run Arcanine with Dnite anyways

ExtremeSpeed is one of the best attacking moves in the game so stacking it on a team isn't a bad thing at all

[fast blade]

This game gave it DDance? I saw in game it could use it but I assumed it was a bug so I felt guilty using it lol

[fast blade]

Ursaring might have suddenly become amazing

[deft oasis]

I'm not sure how Arcanine resembles a dragon but yes it does have DDance in this game for some reason

[tiny wadi]

Ursaring/Dragonite is all over the ladder since Guts makes you immune to status and gives Extremespeed STAB.

[fast blade]

That's deeply confusing

Maybe because arcanine in the pokedex is referred to as a legendary? Dragons historically have legendary connotations?

[fast blade]

Oh really? I haven't seen it yet in my games. Is it a recent phenomenon?

[tiny wadi]

Somewhat. Azurill/Dragonite was all over the place until it was banned, but people were experimenting with Ursaring/Dragonie beforehand since it was pretty obvious Huge Power would get banned.

[median thunder]

https://www.twitch.tv/pokemonchallenges

he's live

[warped veldt]

Oh, it's NatDex OU

RIP custom sprites

[fast elm]

yeah really sad tbh

[warped veldt]

And as I can see, it's allllll hyper stall strats

This is so wild

At least they have Ability Clause

[vivid junco]

Thats what mat dex is lol

[warped veldt]

Today I learned that

[warped veldt]

I just hope the tourney brings the popularity y'all wanted so badly.

Finally, more than 10 people at once

[hushed skiff]

nows the time to destroy the ladder

[warped veldt]

Anaconja still on top, trust

[fast blade]

@pure breach yo when is the tournament? What's the format?

[pure breach]

#showdown-announcements message

this one?

[fast blade]

Yeah

[pure breach]

Saturday 16th of December 2023, at 7pm GMT (UK time)

Gen 7 OU

IF Dex

[warped veldt]

When are the sprites from the latest pack being added, I wonder?

[fast blade]

Okay cool

Thanks

[fast blade]

I'm hoping for it

I'm not any good but it's just more fun when there's more people

[sudden prawn]

Already have

[odd kiln]

ive sent teams to two ppl already lol

isnt it a conflict of interest at this point

[fast blade]

Loses a bit of the integrity huh

[fast blade]

Ayo now we getting new people

[inner jasper]

Yeah, actually have 80 people active

[fast elm]

https://pokepast.es/245c12dd6223c646 The Aragarde HO
https://pokepast.es/fe3af51eab64e642 The Goofy Ahh Glisphy Balance
https://pokepast.es/701b96fb8e660e1f The Syltei Semi-Stall v2
https://pokepast.es/38f48fc08022b216 The Sylvern + Nineora Evil Balance
Technician Beat Up https://pokepast.es/dff6594bddddb1f2
Magnet Pull victini https://pokepast.es/be5bdcf75a3b374d
enamking fat https://pokepast.es/66922cfe684d3d86
jifable rain https://pokepast.es/5242f3ce971907a8
chilly zolt https://pokepast.es/9dcda8d0bec490ad

[fast blade]

What is a lobby tour

[fast elm]

a tournament in the lobby of the showdown server

its really easy to join just make sure you're on when its starting

[winter quarry]

Thank you for the sample teams because I really wanna get into this but holy shoot with so many options analysis paralysis is so real

[pure breach]

The top four teams are those used by Temp6t, the ones at the bottom are the ones used by Buhrito during the Pokemon Challenges invitational btw

[vivid junco]

Thats fair. I have always done well cooking up teams here imo

[sudden prawn]

I just saw a Poison type miss Toxic in Gen 7 OU

[hexed umbra]

We need a viability rankings and for it to have 300 fusions on it

[sudden prawn]

Am I tripping or is that a bug?

[frigid frost]

uhhhhhh

i wanna say that was gen 6

so that sounds an awful lot like a bug

[fast blade]

This is Natdex? I didn't think this was a natdex tournament?

[pure breach]

The Inaugural happening on December 16th is IF Dex OU

the lobby tour that happened earlier was NatDex

[vivid junco]

If nat dex tournament in 20 minutes

[viscid skiff]

So many sylverns

🥺

[rough rapids]

bullet punch, bullet punch, have you tried iron plate or choice band yet ?????????????????

[frigid frost]

would you rather fight 1000 sylverns, or 1000 of the fattest regenerator mons you have ever seen in your life

[rough rapids]

sylverns all day

[frigid frost]

sylvern is pretty frustrating though

[viscid skiff]

I made the slyvern sprite so I'm biased

[frigid frost]

damn

good sprite

great work soldier

[hoary dune]

die

[frigid frost]

🫡

[hoary dune]

I would rather die

[rough rapids]

it's legit ❤️

[viscid skiff]

the third path option where you just run against nothing but shedinja fusions

[frigid frost]

that's called accidentally queueing up for AG

[viscid skiff]

Gliscor toxic orb supremacy

[median thunder]

sylvern 100x over 😭

[hoary dune]

Didn't they change something with posion heal recently?

[viscid skiff]

Yeah it forces you to auto disconnect when you pick it for being a wimp

[hoary dune]

So true

I have a singular team with a posion heal mon. And I will keep it that way

[frigid frost]

don't think so

[viscid skiff]

Gliscor/Garchomp my beloved

[rough rapids]

my name tell you my favorite pokemon, and my whole story

[hoary dune]

Damn, I thought I heard people talking about it in the call

[viscid skiff]

Yall gotta stop having tournaments before I go to work

Ain't fair 😪

[median thunder]

I think dee said it's getting banned soon

[viscid skiff]

[median thunder]

speaking of our draft matches only take into account the current banlist right?

:^)

[viscid skiff]

Are there IF specific bans

[hoary dune]

poison heal banned in the draft matches would be so cool and we should totally do it (I am not biased)

[viscid skiff]

I didn't even know draft was a thing

[frigid frost]

im not aware of it getting banned, so wasnt me. probably shawdoin, hes a knower of things

[frigid frost]

also yes

[hoary dune]

fuck

[hexed umbra]

With the funny addition of Smeargle for some reason

[heady bear]

?

[warped veldt]

Uh

Yeah

You can't use fuse pokemon with triple fusions

[heady bear]

I didnt tho

[warped veldt]

Weird.

[odd kiln]

click the import export button

theres a hidden fusion in there

[heady bear]

👍

[wispy ember]

yes

#showdown-teambuilding message

[drifting kite]

Holup, is Showdown working properly, or are the Soul Dew Lati twins actually legal?

[frigid frost]

soul dew has not been banned for a very long time

it was banned because the item was broken, it is no longer broken

[drifting kite]

This hurts my gen 4 monke brain

[sullen ore]

Yep it's just like the gen 4 legend orbs now
20% boost to stabs

[frigid frost]

yeah, it used to be 1.5x spatk and spdef, which is why it got banned LOL

[sullen ore]

Old one was way funnier they shouldve kept it

[drifting kite]

I think I am beginning to realize why recovery moves got nerfed in SV

[wispy ember]

You think?

No ability clause, pre-nerf recovery

you can run a team with 3 regenerators

[drifting kite]

I knew it was bad, but wtf is this???

[wispy ember]

First time?

Stall in singles

Fun to play against? No
Wins you games? Yes

[drifting kite]

It's even worse than it was in gen 8!

[wispy ember]

Waiting for doubles OU

Stall? Just ignore it lmao

[warped veldt]

I am now begging for Ability Clause in IF Dex OU

I'm suffering

I can't beat the Regenerator and Unaware wall spam

[inner girder]

i mean, just run a mon with moldbreaker

breaks through unaware just fine

[steep plover]

the sub/taunt/qd/owing hymega in question (opponent won't run AV something that can actually deal damage to it, trust)

jokes aside, there are a couple of ways around unaware/regen in IF dex

[warped veldt]

Worry Seed!

[steep plover]

• Moongeist/Sunsteel
• Mold Breaker (though the options are whack)
• Regen cores often fold to bulky setup
• some stuff is simply strong enough to power through anyway given the right support

[warped veldt]

Love the right support addition.

Most walls tend to resist Sunsteel, and Moongeist sweepers... I tried making one but it didn't work.

And I don't know about bulky setups.

And yeah, Mold Breaker mons are.... Haxorus and the rest don't exist.

And I'd like to not have a Fairy and Dragon weakness.

Actually I got an idea for a Klinklang/Haxorus now

[fast blade]

Pinsir!

[onyx herald]

Im wipe yall with bidoofs

Gonna sweep

[storm shadow]

😔

[fast blade]

Wait what

Does that actually work?

Oh nvm didn't see the second one

[storm shadow]

wonder if its specifically 100% abilities that break it
might mess around and try dipplin instead

[fast blade]

You're gonna try compound eyes/wide lens??

[storm shadow]

that could work

nah they really took that "no accuracy modifiers" seriously

[warped veldt]

It's always gonna be 30%.

Hope you like gambling.

[storm shadow]

how do stance change and zero to hero work?

[fast blade]

Stance change works like it does with aegislash, you just switch the stats.

Zero to hero? No idea, who cares about natdex

[storm shadow]

oh I assumed it would just auto set to 150 tbh

what is the most popular format? queues are kind of dead rn it seems

[bright badger]

how do you add a fused pokemon into the IF Showdown?

[dull plaza]

Make sure you add a format first in the teambuilder otherwise the fusion option won’t show up

[inner jasper]

^ and make sure you are on the pokeathlon site not actual showdown's one (see link in this chats description).

[fast blade]

IF dex OU for sure

[storm shadow]

wait doubles is ubers?

thats kind of wack 😭

[opal fiber]

We need an IF doubles OU

[storm shadow]

I would say make gen7 OU and keep the nat dex one fully unrestricted like it is right now

[outer drum]

Does Wishiwashi schooling still work?

[warped veldt]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=gammares-susanheffley-1701684729580
Chaos!

[white oar]

freeze then thaw les go

that's fire

[warped veldt]

I love Pokémon

[drowsy mist]

Am I allowed to send a funny replay?

I take that as a yes https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=walmartworkerjoe-bestdoctor-1701689667215

Walmart employees vs Pokémon trainer

[warped veldt]

So this is why Game Freak doesn't let you battle Poké Mart trainers

[wispy ember]

not through regenerator tho

you can easily just have 2 regen mons, one as a Def wall, the other as a Sp.D wall

[drowsy mist]

He died purely because of perish song

[torn jay]

What did I miss in 2 weeks of absence

[vivid junco]

Its getting made atm

But its nat dex iirc

Might be both

[pure breach]

There’s both

[vivid junco]

Yoo nice

[pure breach]

IF Dex has been ready for over a week, just been working on NatDex since it needs more stuff done to it before release for it to be playable

[vivid junco]

Progress estimate?

[pure breach]

Mostly done, Yoshi wants to change how formats work coding-wise so as soon as he’s done with that they’ll be around

[vivid junco]

Nice nice. Going to be really cool

[verbal pine]

has anyone else noticed gen 9 mechanics recently? Recovery moves have 8pp and rapid spin boosts speed

[fast elm]

yeah i'll fix it in a bit

[flint kayak]

sometimes i wonder how many people play the lower tiers like pu/zu

and if anyone cares that three pokemon are zubl

[primal wedge]

Oh wait i might wanna post that in support actually

[solar kettle]

I quite liked ZU in gens 7 and 8, toward the end of 7 it was the tier I primarily played and throughout 8 it was 1 of the only 2 tiers I played at all, the other being NDOU

[outer drum]

I like low tier cause most of my favourite mons are relegated to that section. Sometimes I attempt to be clever in higher tiers with them but it doesn't really work often lol

[limpid torrent]

i would love to share this trickster

Joltbat (Jolteon) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Volt Absorb
Shiny: Yes
Fusion: Crobat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Electrify
• Agility
• Discharge
• Toxic

any improvements are welcome

electrify is 32pp, so thats a lot of heals, wear em down with psn or para them with discharge. agility first to make sure you're the fastest mon

[white oar]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=ineptgamer-phantonspectrum-1701733838176

3 turn game

[drowsy mist]

The bad Walmart experience aka revenge for hurting Gerome

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=jalapenoz-walmartworkerjoe-1701736495096

[midnight summit]

So, does anybody know how weight-based moves work in this?

[drowsy mist]

Look up weights of Pokémon or use one that has the heavy metal ability

[mighty knot]

open daena on the side : look the weight of your pokémon of choice, compare it to what you know you'll often encounter, choose the best move according to the situation

[unborn pine]

Petition to unban walking wake in natdex

[wary flame]

Why

[odd kiln]

how broken is it really

one of the best pivot typings beats its typing soundly

also wake really benefited from tera

[unborn pine]

I don't know considering fusions change stuff up alot

[warped veldt]

Sun teams would appreciate a Hydro Steam fusion.

But I dunno about the meta in NatDex lol

[grave barn]

cooked up this anti AG tech fusion

wait im not on my pc

it all remains a mystery

it can ohko or should i say 2hko any sturdy shedinja fusions even steel ghost shedinja in Beat Up and immune to taunt while also getting good chip on volc fusions that abooz quiver dance

[oblique valve]

How's the IF OU meta?

[tiny wadi]

wdym by this question

[oblique valve]

Whats the meta like, is it any fun, better than SV OU?

[vivid junco]

It depend on the person. I enjoy this format way more than sv ou atm

[tiny wadi]

same

alot of gliscor fusions, porygon z fusions, bulky waters, enteis, clefs, noiverns, things with oblivan wing

[unborn pine]

This will fool everyone

[dreamy pendant]

Huh

[sudden prawn]

I like it lol

[clear flume]

is the client struggling for others also?

[warped veldt]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=therealignite-gammares-1701802554788

Ily off-brand Yveltal

[dreamy pendant]

Fuck that mon

[warped veldt]

Don't worry I had 3 other sweepers in the back

[dreamy pendant]

They all werent good i just chocked my gliscor cuz i had no clue what lanturn was there for

[frigid frost]

its name was the baiter

[dreamy pendant]

I saw a zone i was like

Bait?

I guess i got baited

[warped veldt]

The nickname fits for a reason

[frigid frost]

also i feel like giga drain on hymega isnt like

super crazy

definitely out of the ordinary but

[dreamy pendant]

doesnt have space and dark pulse is alot better

[warped veldt]

I just find grass coverage useful sometimes.

[white oar]

two high jump kicks in a row

im so annoyed

i didnt even lose the game

it as just annoying

[steep plover]

imo Hymega just shows how broken OWing is on a mon that can boost it and isn't smashing into bulky Steels that eat Dracos with their milk on breakfast

Giga drain might well often be a waste of a moveslot but quiver/owing is all it actually needs

[warped veldt]

Flamethrower for Steel types or Taunt just works.

I picked Giga Drain because funny unexpected move + I'm running Big Root

Water/Steels are so common, might as well run content.

[steep plover]

yeah taunt+sub just bullies entire teams at random

[warped veldt]

Very true

I just loved Ignite's reaction to it having Giga Drain against its Water type wall lol

[dreamy pendant]

See even if u werent drain, dark pulse does better just because it can flinch and dark plus tinted stab is just kinda objectively better

Sense u can flinch down a bulky unaware behind sub

[inner jasper]

Yeah on one hand Dark STAB is nice and what most people would/should do. On the other having 2 healing moves to out stall a wall is funny.

[warped veldt]

Also Big Root viable and good

[fast blade]

Aren't you running tinted lens?

[odd kiln]

theyre regenvest youll need copious boosts to 2hko them

thats why i run fire coverage to ohko jirachitang

[dreamy pendant]

Think jirachi tang is fodder

Though it can u turn into a rk

If they have one

[odd kiln]

iron head is p good chip

[fast blade]

What's that

[odd kiln]

what

[hexed umbra]

Jirachi/Tangrowth presumably

[weak frost]

What are some of the best Pokémon in the meta right now? Not asking for team building purposes, but for a project. 😉

[solar kettle]

porygon is great, jirachi is great, noivern is great, dragonite is great

[hexed umbra]

Sylveon, Noivern, Toxapex, Porygon-Z, Tangrowth, Ferrothorn, Slowking, Jirachi, Entei, Latios, Garchomp, Registeel, Gliscor, Dragonite, Clefable, Magnezone, Skarmory for a few

[solar kettle]

heres the top of the draft point-setup made by dee

[hexed umbra]

Minus Smeargle

[solar kettle]

Zapmolticuno is just there by technicality and smeargle is banned, but the rest are all pretty solid

[warped veldt]

inb4 spriting project for the meta mons

No more guilt over not using custom sprites for me

[solar kettle]

its showdown, its comp, I never had guilt to begin with

[warped veldt]

Yeah, true.

But more custom sprites are always appreciated!

[hexed umbra]

I'm a competitive player and spriter but I'm lazy

[solar kettle]

whats the best spriteless mon rn? Id assume Poryvern or Jirapex?

[warped veldt]

Yeah.

It got one made but in December 2nd

RIP

[hexed umbra]

Poryvern has a sprite

[warped veldt]

?

Very duck-shaped custom sprite

[solar kettle]

noivern has always been a bit of a duck

[hexed umbra]

Just checked then, could have sworn i've seen it before

[solar kettle]

ive seen one too, its not implemented tho

[warped veldt]

There is for the much worse version

So cute....

[weak frost]

So essentially, any fusions using these Pokémon are fine? 😄

And are there any good NFE ones? 🙂

[warped veldt]

Dusclops and Doublade are common ones.

Because Eviolite broken

Maybe Clefairy?

[odd kiln]

clefairy sucks

[warped veldt]

Maybe when Doubles becomes a thing lol

I would also propose Ninetales and Politoed on the list, because weather teams

[hexed umbra]

I havent seen much of Dusclops, most ghosts are Cofagrigus (or doublade)

[solar kettle]

not quite, you can mess up most of these mons if u fuse em wrong, these are just what the best fusions would be made of

the mon most resistant to being messed up is prolly entei

[warped veldt]

The problem is that some of those are meta if they're fused with a mon that's not on the list

[solar kettle]

like snorcore

[warped veldt]

Or wall fusions like Steelix and Tangrowth

An idea would be for us here to make sprite requests for those that want to make sprites for these.

See a good/funny idea but it doesn't have a sprite in this server? Make a request!

[solar kettle]

already did that once for Rampardos/Ttar

[warped veldt]

Did it work?

[solar kettle]

ye, its not implemented yet tho

[warped veldt]

Nice.

I think making a pif with spriters that are willing to make our ideas would be great.

Even if it is a bit selfish....

And as long as people wouldn't make requests for NatDex

[weak frost]

If you could make me a list of like the 50-60 best fusions that have customs sprites, as well as a few NFE ones, I'd be super grateful. 😄

It doesn't need to be an exact list of the best, just ones that are really good. 🙂

[warped veldt]

k guys time to make a tier list

Off the top of my head, this bastard.

Teambuilder compresses the sprite a little bit oops

Maybe just making a list on a spreadsheet would be good

If I make one, would y'all contribute?

[solar kettle]

this one is prolly on the list

[solar kettle]

a little bit

are we currently just looking for the requested ones with custom sprite or are we just looking for the best ones in general?

[warped veldt]

The best ones, in your opinion.

Of course, opinions may differ...

But I think we all here know the meta at least a little bit.

Now how do I make a Google Sheet without doxxing my account lol

[solar kettle]

in that case the whole Noivern/Pory gang prolly makes the list, even if Noirorus is lowkey kinda ass

then u got the jirachi response force to keep them in check

[warped veldt]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16DitM0PCTLBuOUmeVsuwL7CfZRW74h_7b5PQ-gM0fGQ/edit?pli=1#gid=0
Can someone test this for me? Thanks.

Not very professional-looking, but I'm trying my best.

Yeah that seems fair

Though the third space was supposed to be for the comment function, just so other people can write on the same space.

[solar kettle]

o, I thought it was the reasoning space

[warped veldt]

Well, yeah. It's just so that multiple people can write a reasoning, just in case of disagreements.

I hope people know that the comment thing exists

Buh

lmao

[odd kiln]

how does snorcor check itself

[warped veldt]

Ask Shrub?

I assume he's the one that's writing that.

Okay maybe adding editing permissions was a mistake lol

[solar kettle]

it can sorta setup against itself to put itself in range of something else

[odd kiln]

thats not a check

[solar kettle]

fair, still is snorcor tho

tbh, what does properly check snorcor? Pory/Jolteon I know does

[odd kiln]

thats not really a check either

[solar kettle]

its an offensive one, no?

cuz it OHKOes from full

[odd kiln]

if that counts as a check then anything that uses ice rock or electric is a check

[solar kettle]

nah, snorcor is fat and can eat a lot of it

the requirement for a check is can beat 1v1 no? counter is can swap in multiple times throughout a game and beat over and over again

[warped veldt]

For now I'll just work on making the sheet work

I've never done this before, sorry about the uh... unintuitiveness.

[deft oasis]

Unaware mons are pretty good checks against Snorcor too

[solar kettle]

they dont achieve much against it tho, no?

[deft oasis]

they can set up

though they'll also die if Snorcor runs Taunt

but the cost of running Taunt means not being able to hit Ghosts, so I'd say it's a good enough check in general

[solar kettle]

btw, do snorcor run fast now?

or are they still generally defensive boosters

[warped veldt]

Now, who do I trust enough here to give editing perms...?

[solar kettle]

do I hear tournament

50 fusions is quite a lot tho, so Id assume going a bit more freely with it is fine

[feral beacon]

i just had a terrible idea for a gimmick team

[warped veldt]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16DitM0PCTLBuOUmeVsuwL7CfZRW74h_7b5PQ-gM0fGQ/edit?usp=sharing
Alright, it's all done. I'm giving y'all full editing terms, so I better not see any funny business.

If I could, I'd pin this, but....

Welp.

[fast elm]

as if by magic

[warped veldt]

woag....

Blaquaza did say it was fusions WITH sprites, so I'm assuming it'll be that.

[solar kettle]

In that case poryvern and jirapex gotta go

and so does Rampardos/Ttar

[warped veldt]

But they have sprites in this server.

Just not the Pokéathlon client.

[solar kettle]

so in this server counts?

[warped veldt]

Yep yep.

Do I have to make the side text bold so people will read it....?

[odd kiln]

what is this for

[solar kettle]

this

[odd kiln]

but why

[solar kettle]

idk

[warped veldt]

For a project.

[solar kettle]

he asked nicely

[odd kiln]

what project

[warped veldt]

This is all he said.

You can just read down from there.

[odd kiln]

oh he might make a tier list

[warped veldt]

I'm gonna start adding in a few.

[solar kettle]

I nominate sylvern

I think I saw tangrowth entei once which was kinda threatening cuz of regen+v-create

[odd kiln]

sounds mediocre

[solar kettle]

its a v-create that can come in over and over again on rocks, prolly not a top mon, but prolly one of the better enteis

[odd kiln]

it cant come in on rocks over and over being weak to rocks as a regen mon is like bad

[solar kettle]

its not a good regen-mon, Id consider it more like an entei with boots

[odd kiln]

but entei is not good on its own

[solar kettle]

its not? its got a base 115 attack stat with v-create

[odd kiln]

and theres a ton of ways to get very fat fire resists

[solar kettle]

that you prolly wouldnt need without entei

[odd kiln]

theres also chandelure

[solar kettle]

does chandelure ever run fire tho? the chandelures Ive seen usually run something like normal ghost

[odd kiln]

ive seen it

[solar kettle]

what sorta fusion was it on?

[odd kiln]

pz

[solar kettle]

seems kinda wack

would a check to that even cover entei tho? since u want a special wall for the candle and a physical one for entei

[thick axle]

Chandelure fusions usually are ghost cuz the head is ghost type and you usually want it to be a head fusion to get the most out of its special attack

[warped veldt]

Love how Google sends me an e-mail everytime someone writes something on the spreadsheet.

How spammy can you be?

[gaunt cliff]

someone up for a fusion sd battle?

gen 7 if dex

[odd kiln]

what is an sd battle

[deft oasis]

I'm not sure how common they are nowadays but a while ago I saw some Magnezone/Chandelures with Magnet Pull to delete Steel types, so that's a use case for Chandelure as body

[gaunt cliff]

showdown

duh

[odd kiln]

i have never heard that abbreviation in my life

[gaunt cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/wow-gif-20411229

[warped veldt]

TIL

[gaunt cliff]

so u up?

[odd kiln]

why not

[gaunt cliff]

my name on sd is RockyFR

sent

[royal musk]

#general message

Can you guys check if this is true?

[warped veldt]

Yes

It is true.

Right here.

[unborn pine]

true

[grave barn]

bruh wtf why is my worst genesect fusion the feature of the day

[odd kiln]

Genesex

[floral wadi]

Genuinely can't believe the showdown is back up

it's been such a long time since this was up the first time lol

Those were the good old days

[white oar]

what was meta back then

[floral wadi]

uber/regular mon fusions were allowed

so uh

kyogre fusions LOL

[white oar]

so weather teams

[floral wadi]

gliscor/regigigas was ridiculous

slowbro/groudon

genesect/garchomp was a favorite of mine as a pivot

[white oar]

glad to know gliscor was still fucked

[floral wadi]

let me see if I have some old pastes

https://pokepast.es/cd06f9953b513e49

https://pokepast.es/cc844fc4ad026467

https://pokepast.es/05c8f3edd10dd351

just some examples lol

is sylveondragonite still a menace?

even in a meta full of legends it was near banworthy

best cleanup in the tier lol

[white oar]

yeah

pixilate goes hard

we've moved a bit over to scarf noivern boomburst

just beat a guy with 1400 elo

[floral wadi]

huge w

[white oar]

breloom weavile is neat

might yoink that

[floral wadi]

used to be crazy with spore and triple axel

no longer has either lol

just checked

[white oar]

he was 16th on ladder before he lost

[white oar]

spore bans lol

[floral wadi]

yeahhh

[white oar]

deserved in my opinion

[floral wadi]

you can still use like, jirachitangrowth

[white oar]

kinda lame to set up just for a prankster breloom to go "nuh uh" and ruin it

[floral wadi]

insanely annoying

[white oar]

yeah

beefy

what's arcanine/dragonite do

[floral wadi]

oh for sure, but our solution to that in the old server was banning prankster lol

[white oar]

I feel that

[floral wadi]

honestly not sure, I think it was just a strong, bulky fire/dragon?

that's a very good type

[white oar]

I god my team railed by a clefki fusion because I imbalanced towards physical attacker

true

[floral wadi]

mega zard x at home

[white oar]

yall didnt ban speed boost?

[floral wadi]

we had a difficult time agreeing on bans

[white oar]

multiscale dragon dance setup

that's smart

if weak to hazards

[floral wadi]

I was on that council, people couldn't even agree to ban kyogretangrowth

easily the best mon in the tier

[white oar]

yall had a council?

dawg we just got 2 supreme overlords

[floral wadi]

yeah lol, if you could call it that

it was just some mods who decided to get together

not well run

[odd kiln]

i remember that

[quaint marsh]

i guess that makes sense, very complex meta to deal with and you wouldn't want to make too many preemptive bans

[odd kiln]

it was Gased.

you know what was more gased

kyogregliscor

[floral wadi]

that one was also nuts lol

pick your poison, regenerator or poison heal

[odd kiln]

why not both

[white oar]

regenerator

[floral wadi]

every bulky mon in the tier had it

[odd kiln]

i topped ladder with both

[white oar]

I can tolerate regen (barely)

[floral wadi]

I remember all the steel/flying ho-oh fusions

with regen

[white oar]

christ

[floral wadi]

that were totally unbreakable

[quaint marsh]

allowing box legendaries seems like a surefire way to make every mon be a box legendary chassis just for the extra BST

[white oar]

It's more a nightmare because suddenly weather teams have goated setters

and now suddenly it's not just sandstorm

but fucking everything

at least in my head that's how it sounds

wasnt there for it

[quaint marsh]

oh yeah customizing your kyogre/groudon to make the most nightmarish sun and rain teams possible

[odd kiln]

eh it was handleable

[white oar]

like ninetales is meta just off drought alone

[odd kiln]

just use ur dusclopsblissey

[white oar]

ah

fair and balanced

wait why are both evio

oh

christ that meta game sounds garbage for hyper offense

[floral wadi]

infernapegroudon was super fun honestly though

even for being like, a sun setter for some teams

it was a crazy cool pivot

[white oar]

honestly I really wish pelipper and torkoal got added

because weather teams are kinda starved

tragic the meloetta vote

still it's a good fighting type so I cant complain

[quaint marsh]

just from the nature of fusions it seems like there would be less mons that are both really fast and high offensive power

[odd kiln]

half of teams are rain or sun

people seem very sated

[quaint marsh]

lot of things clustering around that 90-100 speed tier

[white oar]

yeah

but there's like

8 outliers in a speed tier that enable special attackers to ball out

[white oar]

exaggeration, I just think more options would be nice

[quaint marsh]

setup might be strong because everything has access to it now

[white oar]

also

[quaint marsh]

seems overall like a meta that would be primarily bulky offense and then something occasionally gets very large and rolls a team

[white oar]

I just dont think ninetails/politoed are any good

[white oar]

ehh

too much priority and other stuff for that to be entirely the case

also

just being outright fat

as in some stuff is absurdly tanky

[odd kiln]

bulky setup

[white oar]

doesnt solve every issue

but yeah

bulky setup

other than being vulnerable to haze anyways

[odd kiln]

haze is a poorly distributed move that is easily taken advantage of

[white oar]

would you pack a status move onto a setup mon

are you insane

[quaint marsh]

i kinda like that move distribution is still a concern, like your movepool is potentially just whatever but if you go too far out of your way you're sacrificing stats/typing/optimal ability to do it

[odd kiln]

wym

[white oar]

you are left with two attacking moves

are you just gonna boost more or something

[odd kiln]

yes

its bulky

[white oar]

great

god I hate this meta

and you're not even wrong

[odd kiln]

its inevitable a relatively decentralized meta will just settle into bulky archetypes

anything else is too inconsistent to be worthwhile

[white oar]

that's one way to look at it

not fun for me though

so I'm just kinda stuck

I mean I've managed to break bulk over my heel before (hell I got epic embed fail by a stroke of luck) but I more often than not just get weathered down or just statused to hell

[floral wadi]

reject setup

return to banded espeed sylveondragonite

[white oar]

one singular steel/fire

I literally run a steel/fire as an anti dragonite thing

and a dragonite with kangaskan to fuck over frail suicide leads

(fake out)

[floral wadi]

you could run a dragmag situation

get rid of steels for an espeed sweep

[white oar]

The 4/6 steel type team:

steel is too common

in a very short way of putting it

and that's ignoring poison type

which is roughly on like

[floral wadi]

unfort

[white oar]

half of teams

anecdotally

[floral wadi]

yeah in the good old days everything was water type

with some steels sprinkled in

[white oar]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=epicembedfail-ineptgamer-1701923249815

kinda sorta average game