pif-hoenn-discussion

[median fox]

We got like 3

[clear lichen]

Easily my most hated Pokemon

[median fox]

Outside of mane

Hatterene gallade and like
Indeded

[clear lichen]

It's crazy that despite being one of the short list of Pokemon I hate, Flutter Mane's generation is still mt favourite in terms of roster

Flutter Mane fills me with seething hatred

[median fox]

Gen 5 is mine i think
Maybe
Im prolly wrong

[clear lichen]

And I hope that if the Paradoxes return, somehow against all odds Flutter Mane doesn't

[median fox]

Honestly i kinda hope they dont

I dislike some not hate but dislike

[viscid wren]

Prob should move to #other-pokemon-games

[median fox]

Yea

[clear lichen]

OK but this channel needs activity

[viscid wren]

This channel is for discussing PIF 2 stuff

[clear lichen]

If this channel was all on topic it'd be cut down to 1% of its activity

OK I'll swap channel though

[thin pawn]

I can't support homophobic pokemon

[viscid wren]

Lets talk about the inevitable meteor falls glow up

[thin pawn]

I hope frog adds even more water

[viscid wren]

Im hoping we get a legend there

Jirachi would be a good one

[full bison]

I'm imagining Jirachi will probably have something to do with the White Rock as a reference to that old playground rumor

[thin pawn]

Yeah Jirachi has to be mossdeep

[full bison]

Either that or the White Rock will have a Mist Stone involved with it

Hoenn's own equivalent of the Mew under the Truck is definitely gonna get something.

[thin pawn]

Though to be fair Mew wasn't obtainable from a truck but rather a completely unrelated stargazing minigame in pif 1

[full bison]

The truck still got a Mist Stone to allude to the playground myth. I'm thinking something similar will happen to the white rock

[viscid wren]

Yeah that seems more likely

[thin pawn]

Oh I never noticed that

Anyway they should add primal forms that would be cool

[full bison]

Would be neat but most certainly never happening

There's already a ton of Primal Groudon/Kyogre references amongst the sprites, it would be a migraine to sort through all them

[viscid wren]

Not to mention its technically mega evolution

And how not very diffetent they would be

[thin pawn]

But Ultra Necrozma is also similar to mega evolution

I think so long as Ultra Necrozma exists in pif 1 the chances of some megas being added are more than 0

[viscid wren]

I guess it kinda is, but we've gitten a firm no on megas

[thin pawn]

aw

[viscid wren]

Ultra Necrozma is also very aesthetically different

[thin pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/too-much-rain-mei-my-neighbor-totoro-rain-over-the-rain-gif-13595855

[full bison]

Also a no on stuff like Origin Giratina and the Deoxys forms, so even from the angle of "they're technically not Megas," it probably won't be on the table

[viscid wren]

Limiting deoxys sprites by dividng thr forms would be awful

[clear lichen]

Yeah but limiting Deoxys itself by not having the forms at all also sucks

[full bison]

Sorting through Giratina would also be annoying cause of how many sprites reference the cutscene of it attacking Cyrus at Spear Pillar, showing it as little more than a red face on a black background. Not sure how those would be divided

[clear lichen]

Same with Giratina

And pretty much anything else that has a form that won't be making it in

[viscid wren]

Its a pokemon you get way late in the postgame, its not a big deal

Maybe if they played bigger roles but neither are important

[full bison]

Even competitively, I'm pretty sure Deoxys forms would all be Ubers due to their extreme stats

[thin pawn]

But isn't Castform getting new forms

[clear lichen]

OK but Deo-A is just better

[thin pawn]

That's technically it's gimmick but still

[clear lichen]

Than Deo-N

[viscid wren]

Castform isnt a legendary and its forms are very distinct

[next flare]

Castform isn’t just getting new forms
It is new

[thin pawn]

Semantics

[full bison]

The big issue with Deoxys is having to sort through all the sprites and needing to decide which one belongs to which form, which is way too much work for both spriters and the people in charge of the repo

[clear lichen]

If you want a big damage fast attacker that dies to a flake of skin then you go with the one with bigger damage

[thin pawn]

I feel like this could be solved by just having the fused forms have different stats with the same sprites

[next flare]

Sprites that use cutscene Giratina could stay in altered form since the origin form isn’t present in that state

[viscid wren]

I really dont think itd be worth

[next flare]

Definitely not worth it

Heads would be near-indistinguishable

[severe flare]

Hmmm what about this location.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Alto_Mare

The City of Water.

Alto Mare

[visual aspen]

oh huh.

exclusive location in johto

til

[viscid wren]

Imagine makes a second region but its just johto again

[full bison]

Johtwo

[broken heart]

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/LaRousse_City

[visual aspen]

was the latios and latias movie one of the movies that moved some mons earlier a gen to tease it?

[broken heart]

i think so

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/North_Petalburg this could be used to expand petalburg

[bold atlas]

Sea Mauville or just Abandoned Ship?

[severe flare]

Through it's the island disconnected from Johto.

[broken heart]

I think Sea Mauville would be better

[tropic dew]

Yes. That being said, there's no reason we couldn't take the ferry from Slateport to Alto Mare for a sidequest or event.

[visual aspen]

no, that's fair. pretty sure couple of the end-game sidequests in pif have you crossing regions anyway, so i don't see an issue with it

was just curious is all; just tryna remember which movies were used to tease the next gen

[tropic dew]

Mm. IIRC, the Lucario movie was another one, since it was set during the Battle Frontier in Kanto.

while Lucario debuted properly in Gen IV

[visual aspen]

the lucario one was interesting. i still see people swear it's a gen 3 mon

[tropic dew]

lol

[visual aspen]

they stole riley's proper debut 😔

[tropic dew]

Might have been a cut one that got shoved into Gen IV.

And I always wondered about Riley. The resemblance to Sir Aaron can't be a coincidence, and that always made me wonder if Riley and Ash were distant relatives.

[tropic dew]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[fallen loom]

I feel like it's just going to be Hoenn locations

[tropic dew]

Sea Mauville AND the Abandoned Ship would be interesting to explore for different reasons.

[fallen loom]

will it be based on RSE Mauville or ORAS?

[tropic dew]

You say that, but we did end up traveling to Unova to obtain Genesect

And Sea Mauville is a facility that replaced the Abandoned in ORAS

It's not actually a copy of Mauville

[visual aspen]

i think as long as travelling off-region is shunted to sidequests, it's probably not going to be an issue

like we already did before

i actually do not remember what sea mauville was

[fallen loom]

the old town pushed somewhere else

[tropic dew]

No, Grip

It was a facility built as an attempt at harnessing natural resources. It was essentially a way for the game to say it was an oil rig without being direct about it.

Though, there's evidence to suggest that one of the natural resources they were trying to harness was in fact INFINITY ENERGY.

And then one of the higher level employees, presumably Professor Cozmo's father, blew the whistle on the Greater Mauville Holdings corporation, and the whole conglomerate went defunct

I feel like, since Mega Evolution is not a thing in PIF's setting, Sea Mauville would just be an oil rig and nothing that's secretly more nefarious than that.

In fact, you could make it so that getting it shut down would be one of the defining moments of activism that led Archie to starting Team Aqua.

And on the flip side, getting the New Mauville project shut down would be Maxie's trigger to start Team Magma.

Since in both RSE and ORAS, New Mauville was an expansion project that got shut down when wild Pokemon started living in the construction zones.

[full bison]

Actually, all the talk around Mauville has me curious about something

[tropic dew]

Oh?

[tropic dew]

ORAS Mauville City seems way livelier, and to me, it does the intended job of making it feel like it's something closer to a proper city.

Especially when you compare it to the original RSE counterpart.

It also ties into the whole "Greater Mauville Holdings" subplot in ORAS, as their one successful project. In this case, the urban redevelopment of the original Mauville City, which presumably resembled it's old RSE counterpart, into what it became in ORAS.

Not to mention, making Hoenn seem livelier and more overall populated is one of the goals of PIF Hoenn, since RSE's Hoenn felt comparatively underpopulated as a region, especially when you compare it to the much more robust Gen I remake games that had you explore Kanto and the Sevii Islands.

I figure that translating some of the ORAS stuff into 2D, as well as incorporating some Anime and Anime Movie-original locations like LaRousse City, will go a long way towards making PIF Hoenn a significantly more explorable region as a whole.

[severe flare]

So Hoenn in PIF-Hoenn is a composite of ORAS and RSE and anime.

[tropic dew]

That is the intention, as far as I know.

[fallen loom]

probably no anime only locations

[tropic dew]

Bro, we had anime-only locations in PIF. Pinkan Island is one of those.

[fallen loom]

I forget that OI are anime only

[tropic dew]

lel

Pretty much.

[fallen loom]

ORAS Mauville turned into Mallville

[tropic dew]

Yeah, ORAS Mauville was explicitly inspired by Lumiose to an extent, and then they took things in a new direction by making the whole city into a combination shopping/apartment complex

[viscid fossil]

A "ring" of a city with every inner wall having stores doesn't sound nearly as fun to navigate in 2d

[fallen loom]

RSE Mauville was generic though

[tropic dew]

Well, in ORAS it was only the first floor that was all shops, the second floor was all apartments and condos, while the top floor were radio towers, and parks. It was all a neatly arranged square in format, too. Way easier to navigate than Lumiose itself.

New Mauville, at least in ORAS, was intended to further expand Mauville, by creating a whole subterranean complex that would have gone several floors below ground.

But as in both games, construction halted when Pokemon started moving in, making further expansion next to impossible.

This is what Mauville looks like in ORAS, as per concept art

[full bison]

The New Mauville sidequest could be a good way to introduce Zeraora whenever they get added. Just have Wattson get the Player to investigate reports of a powerful Electric Pokemon causing trouble down there

[tropic dew]

Yeee

[viscid fossil]

Makes more sense than either of the official new mauville segments

"turn off this thing. There is no presented reason why it was on in the first place. Also, it's like dangerous if it's on."

[tropic dew]

But yeah, making the Legendary Encounter Mirage Spots accessible by land or sea, as well as incorporating some anime and movie locations set in or near Hoenn... It'd make the place a lot bigger in scale.

[bold atlas]

my only worry with ORAS Mauville instead is how it'd look-

[tropic dew]

I always thought it was weird that it got turned on despite being defunct. Felt like a loose plot thread that never got resolved.

[thin pawn]

I hope they add zygarde

But it has multiple forms so probably not

[tropic dew]

The... 10% form, the 50% form, and the 100% form, right?

the Cell form too, but that's the only unplayable form

[rain locust]

free zyg

[thin pawn]

Yes

I wish there was a game that let you get Zygarde 10% fairly early and slowly upgrade it

[full bison]

That's kinda what happens in SuMo

[ruby marsh]

wish there was an easier way to get dawn and dusk stones

or earlier way ig

[brittle crow]

generally anything that would evolve using a shiny/dusk stone would have the bst of a mon that levels around the time that you would have access to the area that allows it

probably the reasoning

you aren't the only one who's talked about that though

not even the 2nd

[ruby marsh]

🪦 🥀

[torpid phoenix]

Been having the urge to play pokemon again. Is the Hoenn PIF playable to the end? I know its still in development, just wondering if I can finish the story etc

[hexed agate]

You can't even download a demo

You can play through regular PIF though, #downloads

[torpid phoenix]

Ahh fair fair

[torpid phoenix]

Ye, I've completed the game a few times

[hexed agate]

Fun game

[torpid phoenix]

Very fun

I do type based nuzlockes to have some more fun in it, get a bigger variety of mons

[prime dust]

and when a demo does comes out, I think it will only cover up to a certain point

i vaguely remember slateport being thrown around

[hexed agate]

Slateport is the target

[prime dust]

so could be somewhere in that ballpark

haza, my memory is correct

[sudden jackal]

how many gym badges would u have by then?

[hexed agate]

2

[sudden jackal]

ah ok

so ur team would be like lvl 20s by then right

[hexed agate]

Yeah

[sterile spoke]

I think some kind of mix of the two could work; an expanded RSE Mauville with traits of ORAS Mauville. 😄

[outer matrix]

Isn't there the 2nd may fight as well?

[sterile spoke]

That's Route 110, so right after Slateport. 😛

[outer matrix]

oh good

[sterile spoke]

It'd be funny if that was included earlier as the final boss of the demo, though. 😂

[outer matrix]

'cus I was wondering how difficult it would be now with fusions in the mix

[sterile spoke]

I can tell you that we'll be doing our best to make the Remix Mode one difficult. 😉

[outer matrix]

maybe as a suggestion, use the Pokémon May caught from the anime?

[sterile spoke]

As far as Remix Mode goes, way ahead of you. 😉

[prime dust]

the issue there is...brandon is never seen in the anime

he might exist in the manga but that means well...reading the manga

[full bison]

I don't see why they both can't use the same team based on May's team from the anime.
could be seen as karma for game Brandon being so sexist

[tropic dew]

Brendan. The canon name for the male Player Character/Rival is Brendan. Brandon is the name of the Battle Pyramid Frontier Brain, y'all.

[prime dust]

no

i enjoy no braining

[outer matrix]

Can't wait for shedinja/wailmer

[molten loom]

why? wonder guard sets hp to 1 anyways

[craggy nexus]

And water Ghost isnt particularly good for wonder guard

[prime dust]

uh

guys, wrong order of operations

in that order it would be bug/water

which is weak to flying, rock and electric

none of those types are super common in gen 3

[tacit saddle]

water/ghost actually isnt bad either

dark, electric, ghost, grass
biggest theat is dark -- electric and grass arent extremely common, ghost you might encounter sometimes

of the pairings bug/water IS better but of the fusions water/ghost has the better stats

(it is a 74 difference)

[rain locust]

being shed it doesnt matter that much

[full bison]

Say what you will about its actual viability in the Showdown meta, but Shed is genuinely really strong in the actual game proper if you actually use it properly. Mostly because status effects are usually pretty predictable and entry hazards rarely show up

[rain locust]

im saying that bc shed relies on using like endeavor and whatnot to actually do dmg

74 difference means nothing if like half of the difference is in bulk

[full bison]

Wonder if Frog actually takes notice of these polls I set up... Either way it's still interesting to see the community's perspective on things

[spice sage]

I saw it ||it's almost definitely gonna be RSE version tho, sorry ||

[tropic dew]

It's all good

[viscid wren]

No worries frog

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/ithinkyoushouldleave-betrayal-betrayed-levels-noonehaseverseen-gif-22155357

[full bison]

I guess the ORAS one is harder to implement.

[molten loom]

I mean I understand since it would be pain to remake the ORAS one in the games style, but also

[outer matrix]

Increase the town size then?

[full bison]

Wow, I forgot how generic Mauville was in RSE. No wonder the remakes changed it so drastically.
It's just one town though, not that much of a loss if we end up with the RSE version

[outer matrix]

Maybe not in the level of the ORAS' version of course

[molten loom]

I wonder if the dark area of granite cave will be optional or not

or if some of the other changes are going to be in

[tropic dew]

Might be interesting to have a similar layout to the ORAS version, but still have it be outdoors with standard buildings like RSE Mauville City.

And if one still wants all the apartment encounters from ORAS, just... Have a dedicated apartment building instead?

Also, I might be in the minority here, but it would be interesting if the Mauville Game Corner decided to rebrand itself as an Arcade and not a gambling den/casino/etc.

[viscid fossil]

The only oras change I need is getting both bikes

[tropic dew]

Being able to shift gears to emulate the functions of the Acro Bike and Mach Bike was peak

[molten loom]

what about the evil teams style

[tropic dew]

I definitely want big nerd glasses ORAS Maxie

Way more interesting designs for both Aqua and Magma.

[viscid fossil]

Mega glasses, in both senses of the word

[tropic dew]

But yeah, turning Mauville Game Corner into an Arcade makes sense to me, since you get a good number of Secret Base furnishings, primarily plushies, from that Game Corner, and you typically associate plushies and toys as prizes more with Arcades in my mind. That and Arcades operate on a model of "you still get a reward even if you play poorly" and encouraging you to git gud to get better payouts instead of relying mostly on RNG.

That said, the idea has always stuck with me, because of ORAS getting rid of the Game Corner because of foreign policies on the depiction of, or use of gambling in games that would have bumped ORAS up to PEGI 12 in European territories. Instead of reworking it into something that kept the spirit of the Game Corner yet shifted focus to a fairer, kid-friendly model like with Arcades, they opted to scrap Game Corners completely going forward and that made me sad...

[viscid fossil]

Just change it to opening pokemon TCG packs and trading the pulls in for money
Which is completely legal for a child to do

[tropic dew]

Pfft

God, adding in a TCG collectathon to PIF Hoenn would be a nightmare.

[spice sage]

Most of that stuff isn't made yet so take it with a grain of salt but

• granite cave has the RSE layout but Steven's room is pimped out like in ORAS
  -Abandoned ship is definitely staying. It's a much more interesting location than Sea Mauville imo. Maybe we'll have both
• Most of the gym puzzles will probably be changed (some to the ORAS version, some probably originals)
• For the rest, we'll see. But in general I want to try keep it closer to the original dungeon layouts instead of the simplified ORAS ones, but while keeping the updated ORAS aesthetics.

[viscid fossil]

but which trick house do we get

[outer matrix]

I hope safari zone is the ORAS one (or just without the timer)

[thin pawn]

I hope they remove the step counter from pif1

[hexed agate]

I hope we half it

[viscid wren]

Here me out PIF Mystery Dungeon

Complete shift in momentum

[outer matrix]

It would be chaos

Because there's the overworld and the portrait sprites (with the various emotions for the latter)

[viscid wren]

The spriters would never sleep

[outer matrix]

It's 4× the amount of work

[viscid wren]

Your right, they wont eat either

[tropic dew]

I definitely think having both would be interesting, especially given all of the Lore™ associated with Sea Mauville, and that it's where you encounter Spiritomb in ORAS.

Compare that with the Abandoned Ship; there's comparatively less narrative significance outside of it being where you obtain the Scanner key item, and some surface-level comparisons to the S.S. Anne.

That said the anime did something interesting with it, by involving a character of the week who wanted to enter the Abandoned Ship (or the Forsaken Ship in the dub of the anime) to look for his Marshtomp that he'd been forced to leave behind when it originally sunk years ago.

In the end, the Marshtomp, now a Swampert was found, and the character decided to convert the ship into something akin to a Nature Preserve for seafaring Pokemon.

So something that adapts that little anime subplot of the day would immediately make the Abandoned Ship way more interesting.

As for the reward earned for giving the Scanner to Captain Stern... I'd keep it similar to what RSE did and you can exchange it for one of Clampearl's held evo items, since I would assume Navel Rock would be reused as the location in which Ho-Oh and Lugia would be encountered.

[velvet root]

Can we send in gym puzzle ideas?

[spice sage]

Yes!

[velvet root]

Over the suggsestion form or should we send it in here?
I ask cuz we could do something visual if we go with here

[sudden jackal]

hai frog

[full bison]

My only gym puzzle suggestion is "please never make anything like Pryce's lce hockey challenge ever again."

[sudden jackal]

also frog PLEASE make tate and liza have 4 or 6 pokemon please they are way too easy for where they are

[quaint matrix]

Was there ever any insane puzzles in the gyms in RSE

I don't think I remember playing Emerald and having any gym puzzle make me go "bruh"

[wary tapir]

I did enjoy Juan's ice floor puzzle.

[full bison]

I remember the Tate and Liza gym leaving me stumped for a few days

Course I was like 5 IIRC

[velvet root]

Ngl that could be cool maybe make them have cool shapes too

[quaint matrix]

Wasn't Tate/Liza just basically a retrain of Sabrina's portals

Iirc anyway

[wary tapir]

Not really. There were spinning floor tiles.

[quaint matrix]

Ah yea I def don't remember then

[spice sage]

I like Pryce's gym, I think it's one of the best ones 😤

[wary tapir]

Yeah, that was a fun gym.

It's not Hoenn, but I also liked Bugsy's gym in HGSS.

[sudden jackal]

also a important question if we are to think of gym puzzle ideas are the gyms gonna be emerald or rs/oras? where is wallace gonna be?

[full bison]

My personal favorite gym puzzle is the dragon statues moving around in BW, though I'm not really sure that's replicable with the tools afforded to us by Game Maker

[full bison]

Probably both

[viscid wren]

I like the ice hockey, I still dont understand everyones beef with it

[full bison]

Depending on which is easier to implement or more entertaining

[viscid wren]

If theres any gyms Id say should change its T and L and Flannery

[sudden jackal]

it cant be both in one game hes the 8th gym leader in another hes the champion

[viscid wren]

Im guessing frog isnt gonna tell us that lol

[sudden jackal]

true

[viscid wren]

I figure thats a play it and find out thing

[sudden jackal]

-# he might tell me since im a porygon

[wary tapir]

I think people find it too hard somehow.

[full bison]

Ice physics are annoying, timing puzzles are annoying, the ice hockey is both

[viscid wren]

Its a little trickey but its not like insane, at least its not luck based

[full bison]

It's annoying ²

[wary tapir]

It's really not timing, even. It's strategy.

[viscid wren]

It is timing, id say if anything its the ice physics that are barely a factor here

Its not really even an ice puzzle just has the physics

But thats all besides the pount

I think flannery deserves a more firey puzzle unless you plan on making her ace water/fire ig

And I just dont like the T and L puzzle

[velvet root]

I could see something similiar like Nessas Puzzle in Sword and Shield but with Fire and Flannery

[wary tapir]

I mean, the gym is still fitting because of Lavaridge Town's claim to fame being hot springs.

[viscid wren]

It is fitting just feels a little off

To be clear I dont think hienn has any "bad" puzzles

I just think these 2 could be enhanced

[wary tapir]

Tbh, I don't like Norman's gym.

[viscid wren]

I think Normans is perfect

[velvet root]

Its not even a puzzle

[wary tapir]

Exactly. Feels kinda underwhelming.

[viscid wren]

I COULD see an arguenent that it mire fighting but I think it fits nirmal well

[wary tapir]

It fits fighting even less.

[viscid wren]

How?

Its literally dueling

[wary tapir]

But it's not a puzzle.

[viscid wren]

Neither is brick, musty, roxanne...

[wary tapir]

Granted, Brawly's was barely a puzzle, but still...

[velvet root]

I think there could be some sort of Puzzle connected to Norman

[viscid wren]

Erika in the og wasnt really a puzzle

[wary tapir]

But this isn't the og.

[velvet root]

Like something with Slaking line
Or prioritising a random kid over your own

[viscid wren]

Surges isnt a puzzle its luck

Plus this is normal type we are talking about

Its king of simplicity

[wary tapir]

It sure is fitting. What's more normal that walking through a door and talking to someone?

[spice sage]

I'm not limiting myself to any specific version, if I find that a gym puzzle is cooler in emerald or ORAS, then I'll go with that one. Wallace is planned to be a gym leader and Steven the champion

[viscid wren]

We do get answers!?

[wary tapir]

Wallace can still have the ice floors like Juan.

...I never played Ruby or Sapphire, so I don't know if he did originally have the ice floor puzzle.

[sudden jackal]

ah okay im only asking cause i wanna know whos gonna be the 8th gym leader cause i wanna come up with different ideas for the gym based on who it is cause juan and wallace are like different types of fancy ya know

[viscid wren]

And testing your raw might

[velvet root]

OOOH what if Normans Gym puzzle has platforms that spin you and invert your Movement and you can only get rid of it by fighting one of his X item trainers
Kinda maze like and the path with the trainer is easyer

I got the idea cuz of Spinda and taking the easy way like a Slaking

And that noone can cheat it always changes how the movement is swapped every few seconds

[viscid wren]

That sounds miserable

[spice sage]

I like it

[wary tapir]

That's an interesting idea.

It doesn't sound miserable, it sounds challenging.

[viscid wren]

I guess Ill suffer

I do not do well with movement inversion

No matter hiw many times I try to get a grip on it lol

[velvet root]

Just imagine the people trying to use Intimidate

[molten loom]

Also fits the badge, since it's the balance badge iirc

[velvet root]

Yesss

[viscid wren]

Well there goes my fave hoenn gym lol

[velvet root]

Just fight the trainers

[viscid wren]

I do see the reasoning behind it though yeah

[velvet root]

OOOH Normans ace could be a Contrary Spinda/Slaking

Resend so its easyer to find like that

[molten loom]

The one hit ko trainer should have a shedinja

So it gets one hit koed

[wary tapir]

Shedinja isn't Normal.

[velvet root]

Its a fusion game

[molten loom]

This is a game with fusion

[wary tapir]

...Oh, wait, right. Forgot we were talking about fusion for a sec.

[sudden jackal]

an idea ive got for the 8th gym could be like lillypads (could look like lotads) all over the place and its a maze where if u take a wrong step you fall through like how the 8th gym is normally it could work similar to gordie's gym from sword but maybe without the dector if we wanna be mean

[wary tapir]

I did like that in Gordie/Melony's gym, yeah.

[sudden jackal]

cause in the mainline games its a ice puzzle where you gotta crack each tile without stepping twice which doesnt exactly make sense for a water gym

[velvet root]

What if the Winona gym gets some more connection with Plants so if we get a remix Hoenn mode we can make her Grass type

[viscid wren]

I guess I just have the worst gym opinions lol

[wary tapir]

But she's Flying first and foremost, so that doesn't make much sense.

[viscid wren]

I did not like gordies gym

[wary tapir]

Really? Strange.

[viscid wren]

Grass would be a good remix type regardless

Her barracades were wood and shes in fortree

[velvet root]

Kinda like skylas gym with wind every now and then but you can bounce over Mushrooms for a jump and get blown from a tree branch
Her whole gym could be on a tree

[sudden jackal]

i feel like wallace could be grass for a remix type and could even have a ludicolo fusion

[wary tapir]

I was gonna bring up Skyla's gym, yeah. Maybe not with cannons, but something similar.

[velvet root]

If we go with the Lillypads yes

[viscid wren]

Wasnt his ace milotic?

[velvet root]

Yes Bouncy Mushrooms like in mario

[sudden jackal]

yep

[viscid wren]

Fairy would be goid if not lilypads

[wary tapir]

That's not really Flying-themed.

[hot idol]

I can see Norman being very strong

[viscid wren]

I could see remix norman being dark

[velvet root]

I gave a gym puzzle and Ace example here #pif-hoenn-discussion message
#pif-hoenn-discussion message

[viscid wren]

Survival of the fittest sort of thing

[wary tapir]

I was gonna say that about Brawly, actually.

[molten loom]

Norman gets something like medicham/slaking for pure power

[viscid wren]

Brawly electric cause energy

[velvet root]

Cuz he likes a random kid more than his own and left his family

[velvet root]

Boring

[molten loom]

true

[viscid wren]

Wattson remix steel

[wary tapir]

There's already an Electric gym, though.

[viscid wren]

Flannery remix water

[viscid wren]

Blaine got psychic fir remix

[molten loom]

talking about remix which has different types

[wary tapir]

I know that.

[hot idol]

Another deadly thing Norman could get is an normal type / shednija with wonder guard so only a dark type move can hit it

[wary tapir]

Oh, did he? I forgot, I thought they all got brand new types.

[velvet root]

Would still be cool only using types that didnt get used in classic

[hot idol]

Or other strats

[molten loom]

or status moves, or rockey helm, or weather

[velvet root]

Too strong for a gym imo

Remember the game isnt meant to be too hard

[viscid wren]

If we are going for minimal overlap rock or ground for flannery

[molten loom]

also give it life orb so it has to 1 shot or else you just win

[velvet root]

Getting punished for using Intimidate orr so is fine
But nearly being unkillable eh

[viscid wren]

Prob rock since ground would be good for roxanne

[velvet root]

Depends how Flannerys gym puzzle will look like imo

[hot idol]

Would bug/normal fusion work instead for it then so it has 3 weaknesses?

[velvet root]

Im unsure if wonderguard would be fair at all
cuz if you dont have exactly what you need your dead

[hot idol]

True it could cause issues

[molten loom]

just give the wonder guard fusion life orb to make it funny

[velvet root]

I can see that on a Gym trainer but not Gym leader

Maybe a Protean Kecleon fusion could be interesting
Linoon is a must for him
I gave the idea for Spinda/Slaking as ace cuz of my gym idea
Maybe a Exploud fusion (maybe Electrode cuz exploding)

[spice sage]

Yeah wonder guard shenanigans is postgame stuff only for sure. It would just be frustrating to encounter during the main story

[velvet root]

Exactly

[sudden jackal]

ive got some ideas for retypings for remix mode if u plan on making it
wattson -steel his badge is based on a dynamo and thats a machine for making energy so fits for both electric and steel plus he has magnemite and magneton in his oras team
glacia -ghost she gives off like a cold presence and she has a froslass on her team plus he dresses kinda old fassioned so she appreciates old stuff so i think she would like ghosts
drake -water in the anime we see him with his own personal fishing boat and he talks about how he likes to fish and go diving plus with his kingdra it fits nicely
steven -rock he loves fossils and has many a rock type in his team already so i feel its kinda an easy pick

im guessing remix is smth no where near ur priority list but its still smth u could tuck away for later

[wary tapir]

I feel like Brawly could use Water, potentially. He's a surfer, after all.

[hot idol]

Normans gym kind of has a fighting dojo look to it so could see Norman being fighting

[viscid wren]

I would live to see norman be remix dark

[velvet root]

Brawly could have a all sports related gym
3 gym trainers doing diffrent activitys with things to solve
A boxer with a mini sandbag moving puzzle
A Jogger you have to catch up to
And maybe a Soccer player that is practising and you have to steal the ball

[ruby marsh]

what if norman was a normal type 🤔

i feel that would kinda fit with his name

[viscid wren]

Norman IS a normal type gym

[ruby marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/clueless-absolutely-flabbergasted-huh-what-gif-3156908965062713747

[viscid wren]

We were discussimg remix type

[ruby marsh]

i know i am just playing around

[viscid wren]

Oh

[sudden jackal]

i see where ur getting at but i feel it fits drake more he has pokemon hes already caught from the ocean (kingdra and dragalge in oras) so we already know he would catch stuff there plus with if brawly was water in remix it would look weird to be in a exorcise gym

[velvet root]

What if this time remix the gym leaders get gimmiks and not types?

[viscid wren]

Finding a gimmick that makes sense would be tough

[velvet root]

Rain, Sand, Sun and Hail teams
Changed types effectiveness teams
Trick room
Etc

[hot idol]

Well the twins already have the gimmick of double battle

[velvet root]

But what if its Double battle trick room

[ruby marsh]

tai chi: be like water

[sudden jackal]

i think we're getting sidetracked i doubt remix mode is a priority for game development we should be thinking about the classic mode gyms

[ruby marsh]

brawly should get a lvl 78 machamp

[full bison]

I think Dark fits him better as a Remix type cause darkness is his whole gym gimmick in both RSE and ORAS

[viscid wren]

Idk, I still feel it fits norman better

[ruby marsh]

norman would be good fighting cuz of the dojo stuff said earlier

[full bison]

I think Fighting fits Norman more than Dark cause his gym is based on a dojo

[velvet root]

Idk how possible it is but what if you enter the first portal in tate and lisas gym you get a splitt screen and see yourself twice and you have to make one of those 2 charakter puzzles with buttons that open doors for the other and both charakters move at the same time like to the right or up
You guys know what I mean?
Would fit to the whole double battle gimmik

[hot idol]

I could also imagine Norman with a slaking machoke/machamp with some ryu bandana on its head

[viscid wren]

What if you and wally/rival fight the gym together

For T and L to do a 2 person puzzle

[hot idol]

I feel wally would work since you fight him near the end of the victory road so it would show progression before the final fight

You kind of don’t see much of him before that so it just happens out of nowhere I feel

Another would be to have him help you with Watson so Watson could have something with a fusion with plusle and a fusion with minim which could make use of their abilities

[velvet root]

I want more rival fights in hoenn

[hot idol]

That too . An extra wally or 2 and another may/Brandon maybe .

Even if optional fights

[ruby marsh]

they should make a pokemon game with a nemesis system

sorry off topic

[sudden jackal]

i mean it could be a plusle/minun fusion with a mareep by its side and it has plus

that would be cool and still work

or even a electrike since that gets minus

[spice sage]

That's one thing I do want to improve on and have him show up a little bit more during the story

Fun fact, in Petalburg, Wally asks the player to catch a Pokemon for him to fuse with his Ralts and he'll keep that fusion of whatever the player gives him for the whole game

[clear lichen]

So basically, it'd be optimal to look for the most worthless thing in the vicinity

[viscid wren]

I absolutely adore features like this, thank you

[spice sage]

yeah I love stuff like that too!

[viscid wren]

Optimal? Yes, bit lets be real we are def giving wally a cool/funny fusion

[clear lichen]

Honestly I'd just give him whatever I encounter first lol

If he gets another Ralts he should get Gardevoir/Gallade or Gallade/Gardevoir fr

[spice sage]

I also have a thing where you can trade a hat with your rival and they'll wear it from then on. Dunno where I'll actually implement it yet but it's funny lol

[viscid wren]

80% of my in game time will be trading

Everyone gets cool fusions

We must give the rival the box of shame hat

[sudden jackal]

hey frog what u think about this idea for 8th gym puzzle?

[velvet root]

10/10

[velvet root]

Lovely

[velvet root]

PEAK

[spice sage]

Gym 8 is a long way away But that sounds fun

[sudden jackal]

WOOO

[viscid wren]

Just more confirmation that PIF Hoenn will be peak yeah

[sudden jackal]

ive got a idea for tate and liza if u wanna hear it

[viscid wren]

Heres hoping the space center gets some upgrades

And Mt. Pyre

[full bison]

I'll be honest, I was just expecting his ace to end up being a Gardevoir/Gallade fusion to call back to both RSE and ORAS simultaneously. This is way more interesting

[viscid wren]

NG+, Give Wally Arceus

[velvet root]

I wonder what early mon would make him the strongest

[viscid wren]

I could see Lotad being a contender

Ludi is actually kinda good

[full bison]

The answer to that depends entirely on what ends up being available, considering we know that the Dex will include some number of later gen mons like Fletchling

[viscid wren]

And isnt it water primary? Water/Fairy type

It also depends on if ralts is body or head

[hot idol]

You meet your rival outside the big shopping mall . Maybe you go shopping with them and you buy them a hat there ?

[viscid wren]

I think lilycove is too late

[hot idol]

Maybe the market place then?

[viscid wren]

To make the most worth out of it, I'd do it in rustboro

[viscid wren]

Gives them being there at least some sort of relevance

[craggy nexus]

that pretty late in the game tho, like in the regular games thats the last time u see your rival

[hot idol]

I forgot how late lilycove was

[thin pawn]

Frog should put in the ORAS "Battle frontier"

With a Work in Progress sign

[viscid wren]

If we dont get battle frontier

[hot idol]

If there’s contests will the rival enter those ? That maybe another way to see the hat on the rival later

[viscid wren]

Or if we are getting it while it is being worked on

[thin pawn]

It would be so funny

[craggy nexus]

thats a pretty good option after all in oras they get a contest outfit (and i just realize im going to have to sprite that...)

[thin pawn]

I don't know how contests would work

Maybe they use the Head Pokemon's Cuteness and the Body's Coolness?

Something like that

[viscid wren]

Wdym

Those are stats, that you raise lol

[full bison]

Contest stats are entirely player input

[hot idol]

You feed the poke blocks

Maybe any costumes added to a Pokémon can add or take away too

[thin pawn]

Oh

I'm dumb my bad

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/728031877314773074/1280557215840735232/cat_blast.gif

[full bison]

Course, if contests are happening, someone has to determine the contest types of the Gen 7 moves

[hot idol]

Like giving a eevee a big pink ribbon maybe gives extra cute points but loses tough points

[viscid wren]

Theres practically no reason to drop points but I guess it makes no sense

[hot idol]

I mean it could just add points if not

[viscid wren]

Since contests are divided by the different stats anyways

It would be a good node to the scarfs though

[thin pawn]

I never liked contests all that much to be honest

[viscid wren]

Im all for contests

If we get contests, thats were all my time not trading to give every npc a cool team will be

[full bison]

I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been a fangame dedicated to contests and further refining them

[rain locust]

gen 7 moves have contest types in showdown code

but idk what effects theyd have

[full bison]

Showdown does contests?

[rain locust]

no but it has it in the code

[thin pawn]

I wonder if they'll shut down showdown once champions comes out

[rain locust]

dont say that

[severe flare]

I was thinking about we try to prendered some of the location for this.

[pale sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/noted-notes-gif-2324709437568081234

[viscid wren]

What, what did I do

[pale sparrow]

We tried some gimmicks over types for a few postgame gyms in johto and it just becomes weird when the theme goes over players head. Not worth going for imo

[pale sparrow]

nothing, just taking notes

[pale sparrow]

we have some ideas for the twins already, but trick room could definetly be added to that

[velvet root]

Do you help with remix hoenn or general hoenn

[viscid wren]

Trick Room is a super obviously play for a double battle gym

Could also do counterparts but that would probably not be very good

If you wanna do type Rock is the obvious choice because of their ace but I could see steel

Or for another gimmick, floating pokemon

[pale sparrow]

remix mode only

but just to be clear, no idea if the hoenn game will actually have remix mode

[viscid wren]

Yeah, thats also something I was thinking might happen

[pale sparrow]

there is another fun idea we have for them, but not gonna spoil it in case it becomes reality

trick room would just be added on top of that

[viscid wren]

It seems like the encounter pool is getting a massive rework from the hoenn games so remix might become unecessary I'm guessing?

Other than for unique gyms

[pale sparrow]

who knows

[cosmic thorn]

Has Hoenn been added to the game?

[viscid wren]

Itll be a new game and its not out yet

[rain locust]

trick room is soooooooooo broken in doubles

[viscid wren]

I mean, its strong but its not remotely unbeatable

I doubt itll be a competitive double team lol

[rain locust]

in if its broken af

[viscid wren]

I guess I haven't played around with it in IF but I still think there are ways to balance it

[full bison]

If we're discussing Remix types, here's my two cents on what I think the types should be:
Roxanne: Bug (most accessible early game type to deal with besides Rock itself)
Brawly: Dark (gym gimmick)
Wattson: Steel (had a lot of involvement with mechanical stuff, such as New Mauville)
Flannery: Ground (makes the most sense for her gym gimmick, and there's even places around Lavaridge where you can pretend to be buried in sand)
Norman: Fighting (gym looks like a dojo)
Winona: Grass or Dragon (Fortree City is- you guessed it- full of trees, plus Dragons are the next most fitting type for her aesthetically)
Tate and Liza: honestly don't know. Maybe Fairy, cause it's the next most space adjacent type due to Clefable?
Juan/Wallace: Ice (gym puzzle)
Sidney: Poison (the next most "evil" type for a guy named after "sin.")
Phoebe: Psychic (she's pretty connected to paranormal stuff, and Psychic is the next most paranormal type)
Glacia: again, not sure.
Drake: Water (looks like a ship captain)

[quaint matrix]

Glacia being Normal I think would be funny

There isn't really any other type that encompasses grace (Fairy is but that's prob Tate/Liza's lane) so Normal is the next best thing

[hollow fern]

Could be ice? Fits with her name, as well

Plus snow invokes the idea of grace and elegance pretty well, imo

[visual aspen]

aint she ice to begin with? considering the name and all

[hollow fern]

Oh, probably

Oh I'm stupid. Juan/Wallace already took that anyway

Yeah may as well go Normal

[visual aspen]

i'd personally go with normal for rocks as both a starter gym leader and being a teacher, with glacia being fairy or ghost because she looks ethereal (and/or very pale)

[full bison]

Flying might also work for Glacia, but that really only works colors wise

[prime dust]

hm that does make things interesting, since we don't know for sure which champion we will have

[uneven bear]

did i make it to the right chat?

[full bison]

Both Juan and Wallace use the same type, so which one is in charge of the gym wouldn't really change the remix type, I imagine

[prime dust]

true

make Glacia have Fire types to really screw with your head

[visual aspen]

culminating in steven stone being a rock type champion, heh.

[uneven bear]

is the flying gym winona or skyler?

[prime dust]

that only applies if Wallace is the last gym leader

[uneven bear]

i feel like the flying gym and ice gym should swap

[viscid wren]

They are

[visual aspen]

that's

[prime dust]

we don't know that for sure

[hollow fern]

Rapidash, Ninetales... I can see it

[viscid wren]

Frog said its likely Wallace 8th, Steven Champ

[prime dust]

ok

then yeah

[visual aspen]

okay i'm seconding the fire type idea

[full bison]

Wallace will probably have an ORAS type deal where we can fight his champion team in the postgame

[visual aspen]

it's just so funny, but there are some elegant fire types

[prime dust]

it is the easiest swap in for Glacia

https://tenor.com/view/glacia-pokemon-pokemon-masters-ex-hot-lady-gif-10170274621539449321

[visual aspen]

actually, now that you mention it

Flaming passion in icy cold!

[full bison]

Glacia didn't really have the most elegant looking team TBF

Chonky walrus and floating faces

[prime dust]

not as her normal typing no

but as fire

gives us an opportunity to really push that

[visual aspen]

trainer's eyes mentions her flaming passion

[uneven bear]

stellar type?

anyone?

[hollow fern]

Nothing from gen 8+

[prime dust]

would def need a Chandelure

[hollow fern]

No exceptions to this at all

[visual aspen]

brilliant

[hollow fern]

Hell yeah

Maybe Oricorio-Flamenco?

[uneven bear]

wb Mega? Mega glalie

?

[full bison]

No megas

That's been deconfirmed a while ago

[uneven bear]

I WASNT HERE

[hollow fern]

I mean, for gen 3 it's a massive stretch anyway

[uneven bear]

but now, I AM HERE pun intended if ykyk

[prime dust]

Ori Baile is a definate option

should we go the extra mile and throw in some legends

[hollow fern]

Oh is that what it's called? Whoops

[prime dust]

Moltres or Reshiram

[hollow fern]

Moltres if anything

[full bison]

I really do miss Legendary Pokemon in the E4

Necroray was such a fun inclusion for the final fight

[hollow fern]

Necrozma/Luxray?

[prime dust]

ok, so that puts us at:

Rapidash fusion
Ninetails fusion
Chandelure fusion
Ori Baile Fusion
Moltres fusion

[hollow fern]

Luxray is honestly just such a cool mon

I'm assuming that trainers solely use fusions in Remix?

[visual aspen]

ye, pom-pom, baile, sensu, and pa'u

more or less, yes

i don't think i've seen one that doesn't anyway

[prime dust]

all trainers use fused mons

it is rare for a trainer to have a non-fused mon for a fight

regardless of the mode

[viscid wren]

In normal there are a lot of unfused actually

[hollow fern]

Perhaps Moltres should actually be unfused? It kind of adds to it feeling Legendary, especially in Remix

[visual aspen]

there's probably someone like whatshisface

piers? that refuses to use dynamaxed mons

we could have someone like that, but for fused mons

[prime dust]

might work for something in the battle frontier

[hollow fern]

Actually I just realised... Moltres is absolutely one of the weaker legendaries, so kind of needs to be fused, huh

[prime dust]

that is why i offered the option of Reshiram as well

[hollow fern]

Especially being 4x weak to rock by default

Or at least I think so

[visual aspen]

today i will set up rocks

[prime dust]

yes you are correct

x4 weak to rock

[visual aspen]

i vote for remix glacia's "ace" to be fire/ice

[hollow fern]

Ooooooh

Molticuno

[prime dust]

that has the same problem

[hollow fern]

Oh yeah, Ice is also weak to rock 💀

[visual aspen]

very true, but i like the callback to their original typing

[prime dust]

well the typing doesn't change

that's the issue

[hollow fern]

Oh right

I'm not stupid, I swear

[visual aspen]

oh, you meant molticuno

[hollow fern]

If only we had Alolan Ninetales 😔

[visual aspen]

any sort of alternate versions still aint getting added, yeah?

[viscid wren]

I doubt ever will

[prime dust]

regional variants partly kind the point of fusing to some degree

we have fusion sprites that reference the regional form

could be a self-fusion, could be a fusion of the pokemon + something else

[willow prairie]

will there be a possibility of improving wonder trade in the sequel? I would love to have wondertrade with an option to only trade unfused base mons, since now fused mons cant breed

[prime dust]

prob not

frog will likely just add another npc you can pay money to

so the OT gets removed

i could see maybe expanding it for a chance at an unfused mon

but adding an option outright for unfused mons kind doesn't make much sense

[viscid wren]

That reminds me

So we are gonna be able to do a lot of trading with the random npcs scattered about the world, I'm hoping there will be a way to unfuse the mons we get in trades early on so that we can use those base mons since a lot of npcs carry pokemon you may not have access to yet

Im also wondering how having 2 games is gonna affect the server but thats something very different

[quaint matrix]

It presumably will use the same sprite server that original PIF uses

[viscid wren]

Not that

I mean THIS server

[quaint matrix]

Ahhhhh

Yeah I wonder if it's gonna be a splintered server

[hushed axle]

-# No please, not another server

I'm still trying to figure out how tech support is gonna work with Hoenn

[viscid wren]

I think it could work as one server just would require some more channels and maybe a few extra hands

[outer matrix]

#tech-support-pif-kanto
#tech-support-pif-hoenn

[hushed axle]

I quit, bai

[brittle crow]

gotta tech support both pif1 and 2

and both launcher options

and android and steam deck options

and pc laptops bootlegged to run linux on top

[molten loom]

And people would use the wrong ones all the time

[viscid wren]

Yeah its gonna be a nightmare

[full bison]

Yanmega on its way to proc twice as often with messages twice as long

[hushed axle]

Ngl

Probably gonna discontinue Android at that point

Not worth the headache

Unless I can figure out an easier/better/more compatible way to do Android

But it is not high on my priority list

[sudden jackal]

oh god yeah are we gonna have 2 tech support channels

*has existenial crisis *

[visual aspen]

the volunteers/mods could always pick which one to sign up on

but that'll still be way too much to help for

[hidden relic]

Probably rework the channel into a forum post and have tags for Kanto and Hoenn seperately?

[velvet root]

Sounds good
A diffrent server (Fossils and Archeology) has that too

[hushed axle]

Maybe

[sudden jackal]

well in other fangame servers with multiple games like alpharad's one they have separate stuff for each game so we would have separate tech support, gameplay help, playthrough talk ect

[velvet root]

I dont think we need to seperate that much

[sudden jackal]

so we would slap kanto onto #tech-support #gameplay-help #playthrough-talk and make new channels for hoenn

[hushed axle]

I feel like that’s just gonna lead to people going to the wrong channels tbh

(More than they already do)

[velvet root]

Maybe the first 2 or make the first 2 into thread channels

[sudden jackal]

i feel like no matter what people are gonna use the wrong channels when they get here

[velvet root]

I mean I dont even see why we would need 2 plalythrough

If someone say they are stuck at Norman or route 222 its obvious

Imo

[sudden jackal]

i mean if someones talking about the elite 4 and getting advice ppl wouldnt know which one

[velvet root]

Tbf E4 being the only problem would be fine imo

We can just ask what E4 they fight against if they dont already say it

[sudden jackal]

ppl dont say the names of the gym leaders all that often from what ive seen

[velvet root]

Fair kinda
But I still think there is no problem just asking

Better than a "wrong channel" every 2 minutes

[sudden jackal]

well its not like we wouldnt make a announcement about the new channels

[velvet root]

For that people would have to read

[sudden jackal]

ik some people can be dumb but ur really underestimating people here

[hushed axle]

Getting advice is moreso a #playthrough-talk topic anyways

#gameplay-help should really only be used for progression help and it’d be pretty clear which game they’re talking about

[fickle crest]

honestly, with the amount of channel we currently have, people already talk in wrong channels quite often, imagine if we double them ? and gonna be a hell to moderate too

[tropic dew]

Yeah, there kind of needs to be a trimming down of channels, or straight up reorganizing them into forums or something.

[fickle crest]

if peoples could read, the server disposition right now is quite good, but i'm not imagine a duplication of everything for hoen tbh

[hollow fern]

Realistically I think we'd only need #hoenn-playthrough-talk and #hoenn-hall-of-fame

[tacit saddle]

honestly? not even another HOF

just another playthrough talk

help channels is arguable

we'll have to see

[velvet root]

Imo we dont need any new channel
Only make the help stuff into threads

[hidden relic]

If anything a lot of stuff could probably be merged down

Fuse the suggestion channels together into a single one for both game and Discord. Merge hall of Fame, fusions and playthrough talk into gameplay-discussion. The showdown-gen and team building could be 1 channel, etc

[sudden jackal]

i feel like if we fuse hof, fusions and playthrough talk in one it would be just a constant flow of texts when its active and then we would probably have to turn on slowmode and that would be annoying

[hidden relic]

Maybe

[quaint matrix]

No shot channel fusing those three is happening

We've already got the ecosystem where #hall-of-fame thrives off of funny game end screenshots

[hidden relic]

Maybe just fusions and hof

[quaint matrix]

And #fusions also thrives off of funny fusion sprites being posted and people going "damn this thing goes hard/goes cursed" (I'm also people)

[sudden jackal]

it would be a constant spam of images and make getting the playthrough master role more annoying to verify

[hidden relic]

Just get rid of the playthrough master role clearly

Easy

[quaint matrix]

I genuinely think all it takes is just adding #kanto-playthrough-talk (rename the #playthrough-talk to that) and #hoenn-playthrough-talk

[sudden jackal]

if it was my choice i would rename this channel to smth like "hoenn playthough talk" and rename #playthrough-talk to smth like "kanto playthrough talk" or just keep it the same

[hidden relic]

Nah don't make this channel Hoenn-playthrough-talk

[quaint matrix]

Did you just repeat what I said brother

[sudden jackal]

well once the games out theres not really a reason for this and that way we keep the chat history

[sudden jackal]

im agreeing with u :3

[hidden relic]

This channel is typically vaulted and unvaulted to use as a chat for big reveals

[quaint matrix]

Ah I didn't catch it then lmao mb

[hidden relic]

Normally new-pokemon-discussion, and is currently this for the foreseeable future

But I bet there's going to be something in the distant future that we'll need a channel like this for. Don't know what and when, but we'll need this

[trail hull]

I Hope it will returns

[full bison]

I imagine this channel will eventually go back to its original role as the "new Pokemon" channel when new additions to the roster are back on the table

[viscid wren]

I dont think we need seperate playthrought talk channels. I think more so we need seperate #bug reports for orginization purposes and maybe divy up the support channels if theres enough hands on deck

[hushed axle]

I think bug reports will just need a Hoenn tag

[viscid wren]

....yeah that makes a lot lore sense to do lmao

[trail hull]

We’re 5k away from 700k

[outer matrix]

That'll determine the next batch being announced sooner

[prime dust]

there's barely enough Porygons for one tech support

but yeah a tag for Hoenn on those bugs will help

[viscid wren]

a tag that will still never be used but we cant really do anything about that

[viscid fossil]

There's a reason why #1142871804269052004 is closed to the public nowadays

[viscid wren]

Right, man my memory really does not want to cooperate today

[prime dust]

lol

[outer matrix]

It's closed?

[prime dust]

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-but-actually-no-meme-aardman-the-pirates-pirate-gif-26563702

you can post in an already made bug report

but new reports can only be made by the Porygon team

no one bothered to read the guideline on how to report a bug, nor did they read the extra text in there that says check if a bug has been reported before posting it

it lead to a LOT of jank reports, and duplicate reports

[viscid wren]

Now how many times do people try to report new bugs in a seperate bug report thread

[prime dust]

that I'm aware of...none

[viscid wren]

Thats astonishing!

its super effective!

[molten loom]

That I'm aware of at least once

[hushed axle]

I think it’s only happened once since we added the restriction but people did that before anyways

Also, smol clarification, all staff + porygons can make new reports, not just porygons

[hexed agate]

It's okay, as staff, a Porygon and the Porygon, I will take over the duty of making dupe reports for the community

It's a role I will take with great pride

[viscid wren]

Does that mean reporting dupes or making reports that have already made?

Pory villain ark?

[hexed agate]

[viscid fossil]

Make sure to include the monthly report of the bridge in the Sewers being misplaced
It's just not the same without it

[viscid wren]

Thats a thing? Sheesh

[hexed agate]

It will be my pleasure

[hushed axle]

I will literally make you the exception to staff posting in bug reports

Fun fact, at first I forgot to let staff post so Faux couldn’t make a new report

[midnight wharf]

We getting the full battle frontier with this one?

[viscid wren]

We can only hope

[vocal pivot]

I assume it will be a post-release update

If it's considered

[viscid wren]

I wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt happen, its sounds like an absolutely insane undertaking

[trail hull]

The first demo will only go up to gym 2 so prob not

[vapid grove]

wonder what the main differences between this and the first game will be

[craggy nexus]

the region

[outer matrix]

And the Pokémon avaliable in the wild

[visual aspen]

whatre the chances we get more pokemon and fusions than currently possible ingame

[vapid grove]

if we can get alolan starters im happy, rowlet my beloved

[craggy nexus]

maybe but not in the first release

[dense hemlock]

Not the unova starters always being overlooked😔

[quaint matrix]

It's all Emboar's fault

Also unfortunately the Alolan starters are just cooler

I legit think if the Hoenn and Unova starters were all that's left it might actually be a toss-up

[dense hemlock]

I feel like all the gen 1-7 starters will be added eventually

Although it would be difficult, since now both the kanto and hoenn games would need to be updated to include them

[viscid fossil]

That isn't a problem
The games run on the same framework so many changes can apply to both games without issue
Adding new mons would happen to both games automatically

[junior tiger]

The underlying code would be the same, but deciding the encounter circumstances (either wild encounter tables or gift/quest rewards) will need to be different in each. That does take time and effort.
Also, if contests are a thing in the sequel, that's exclusively PIF2 which entirely in one and not both, so it would need to be tested for them only in PIF2

[clear lichen]

That's a crazy take when the Hoenn starters are like, 2nd or 3rd most popular of them all

And the Unovan starters are perhaps the least popular

[quaint matrix]

I totally agree

But relative to PiF I truly do think Hoenn and Unova as choices would be a genuine toss up

[sudden jackal]

whats this for?

[quaint matrix]

Sinnoh, Kalos, and Alolan got them all being dual typed

Kanto and Johto pretty much got the nostalgia tax rebate

[sudden jackal]

what are yall talking about?

[quaint matrix]

The theoretical scenario (me personally) of the toss up between Hoenn and Unova starters if they aren't in the game yet

And one of them will be picked to be in the game

[sudden jackal]

i would want unova to be added if pif hoenn since it wasnt here

[clear lichen]

PIF Unova would be cool considering yknow THE ENTIRE CONCEPT BEHIND FUSING COMING FROM UNOVA

[sudden jackal]

wait why are u even having this toss up its gonna be set in hoenn so theyre the starters

[clear lichen]

This is merely a theoretical

It's just a theory, a GAME THEORY

Anyways

[clear lichen]

It's incredibly bold of you to make the assumption that people aren't just voting for what they like the most in at least 70% of cases

[quaint matrix]

Eh true lol

Maybe Unova is just always dead last if it has to be picked between all the rest of the Gen's starters

Just a very unfortunate circumstances since Gen 5 is a banger and a half

[clear lichen]

I think the Unova trio get too much hate personally, but I will say I think I prefer the Alola trio

But it's tough

They're quite close for me

[quaint matrix]

The toss-up is like if the only starters not added yet in this game is Hoenn and Unova ones

Instead of Alola and Unova being the ones not added yet

[sudden jackal]

i would still want unova

[clear lichen]

This is PIF Hoenn so like

[sudden jackal]

i like all 3 unova starters a bit more than all 3 hoenn ones

[quaint matrix]

I know this is all theoretical smh

[clear lichen]

Yeah it is

[quaint matrix]

In this theoretical I think PIF Hoenn is not a thing yet either

Anyway that's just a stray thought

[clear lichen]

Theoretically, PIF Unova would go hard

[quaint matrix]

No no I don't even think of like PIF Unova or anything

This is all just assuming we only have the one game to talk about

[clear lichen]

Ah ok

[quaint matrix]

Yeah that's why I was saying it's a tossup

[clear lichen]

I definitely prefer Serperior over Sceptile, but I think I'd prefer both Blaziken and Swampert over Emboar and Samurott

The former isn't that big of a margin though

[quaint matrix]

Serperior and Sceptile are just kinda equal to me so I totally get that

[clear lichen]

Comparing to the Alola starters I just can't compare them type to type

[quaint matrix]

I think as you said though me personally I probably fw Blaziken and Swampert more over Emboar and Samurott

[clear lichen]

Because it is extremely important that I like Primarina and Serperior equally

So I'd compare Incin and Decid to Emboar and Samu

And all of these are like, B tier Pokemon to me

I think the Alolan Pokemon would be more creative in terms of fusion design but I also really want a Contrary user that isn't ass

So that balances out

So I'm just comparing how much I like the designs at this point

[prime dust]

ahem

https://tenor.com/view/emboar-pokémon-black-and-white-unova-hilda-gif-1806760222790133511

[sterile spoke]

@spice sage To be entirely annoying, I was wondering if you were thinking of adding the post-Hoenn DexNav Pokémon (Zorua on Route 101, Klefki on Route 114, etc.) to the encounter tables? 😮

[gray vine]

Don't know what you mean but zorua and klefki are already in the game

And it's been confirmed since day 1 of the announcement that all mons from pif are also in pif 2

[full bison]

As for the DexNav Pokemon that weren't added in either game yet, it's most certainly going to be a long while before more Pokemon get added to the roster, considering we just got over 60

[viscid wren]

They are asking if we are getting the post game encounter tables from ORAS added to the game (presumably before the post game in this case)

Which were obtained through DexNav in those games

[spice sage]

Yesss that's the plan

[velvet root]

👀

[quaint matrix]

Oh man don't tell me PokeRadar is gonna be postgame in this one

[primal obsidian]

seen as it was done with the og game i think it would be cool if this game combined hoenn and sinnoh (i understand the og game only did it because the johto games let you go to kanto in the post game but still, would be sick

[hexed agate]

good to know

[rancid nymph]

Important question: where will we be able to find the best Pokémon (or its preevolution)?

[craggy nexus]

seeing as incineroar isnt in the game your going to have to be more specific than that

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/weavile-pokemon-anime-dance-gif-22707594

[velvet root]

If all DexNav mons get in we would get a extra 25 lines if I didnt f up counting

[full bison]

If we do end up getting those, it would include some really fun lines to work with. Leavanny, Dragalge, Gigalith, Bronzong, Drapion, and Clawitzer all have amazing potential

[velvet root]

Pidove is really fun too
Elgyem
Lumineon

[full bison]

Thinking about it, Clawitzer's incredible Special Attack, okay defenses, and Mega Launcher ability might actually make it a really powerful fusion material. It even gets the rare and coveted Aura Sphere, meaning that would be even less reason to bother with Focus Miss

Also all the fusions of things carrying big ass guns would be awesome to see

[hexed agate]

Mega Launcher isn't that impactful of an ability, sadly

it's cool, but it boosts all of like, 4 moves (5 if you're Kyogre )

[full bison]

I know its boost pool isn't the biggest, but having a base 120 power move that never misses is pretty cool to have

And making Water Pulse as powerful as Surf with an added confusion chance is pretty useful too

[viscid fossil]

mega launcher origin pulse:

[full bison]

Funny enough, that setup is actually pretty redundant. Because Origin Pulse is a Water move, it gets a 50% buff in Rain, which Kyogre sets up on its own with Drizzle. Fusing Kyogre with Clawitzer would mean choosing between either Mega Launcher or Drizzle, both of which buff Origin Pulse by the same amount.

Course, you could get a Politoed or Pelliper to set rain up instead and get two 50% buffs, so that's a thing

Not sure that I personally would put that much investment into a move that's 85% accurate

[clear lichen]

I mean like, 165 BP though

We love clicking big ass nukes

[clear lichen]

Anyways, Gigalith is peak so if it gets in I celebrate

[full bison]

I'm definitely down for both Gigalith's cool design and another Sandstorm setter that doesn't take forever to get

[clear lichen]

Dragalge is also peak tbh

I mean tbf you already have Porygon-Z for Adaptability and it has a better stat spread to abuse it I'd imagine but Dragalge can pass Adaptability down with different types than to PZ

Now everything has Adaptability Draco Meteor

Ain't that neat

[full bison]

97 Special Attack tho

It definitely would need a beefy partner to fuse with

Definitely interested in it from an aesthetic sense tho

Fun colors, tons of unique design features

[clear lichen]

What other new things do we get?

[full bison]

Bronzong for Levitating/Not fire weak steel type

[clear lichen]

Nah, screw Incineroar, he's a fraud in Singles

[craggy nexus]

Inb4 gamefreak gives him spin and a way to setup rocks

[clear lichen]

But will that be enough to bring it to OU?

[craggy nexus]

Probably he isnt good in singles cause it's a support Mon and those dont do well without someone to support

[clear lichen]

Literally every team has something to support?

Up to 6 somethings even

Just because you can't directly use Helping Hand or whatever on it doesn't mean it isn't support

[viscid wren]

These were in ORAS? dang I really didnt do much postgame huh

[full bison]

It's not even postgame. It's just a bit after defeating Kyogre/Groudon. Something about their presence having changed the environment enough to accommodate new Pokemon species to migrate into the region

But yeah by that point most people have fully established their teams

[viscid wren]

I was too focused on sableye lmao

[full bison]

It was pretty nice that Sableye was finally really good

[viscid wren]

iirc the mega stone was post game

Or it was at league

[velvet root]

Even more intersting ones

[full bison]

It was in Sootopolis, according to Bulbapedia

[viscid wren]

It has been a long time so makes sense

[outer matrix]

From what I can remember, most of them are only encounterable via dexNav

[viscid fossil]

but prankster

[viscid wren]

I didnt know how to get hidden abilities lol

[full bison]

Funny thing about how priority worked in ORAS: Sableye could still use Prankster the same turn it Mega Evolved, meaning it basically had Prankster and Magic Bounce simultaneously on that turn.

That was partially why Smogon needed to ban it, in fact. That pushed its capabilities a bit too far.

[viscid fossil]

and you could fake out the turn before

[full bison]

Mega Sableye and Mega Mawile did a better job representing the Unstoppable Force and Immovable Object than the actual Pokemon inspired by the Unstoppable Force and Immovable Object

Granted Zacian was a pretty unstoppable force, but Zamazenta was a little too movable of an object

[prime dust]

Zacian and Zamazenta was just "Hey let's make Sif from Dark Souls a Pokemon, he'll just need a counterpart"

[quaint matrix]

Zamazenta more like "We're not gonna give you the actual good move you have...okay here it is but also your girl friend is getting nerfed and so are you"

[vocal pivot]

And now zamazenta is the better one doubles-wise lol

[quaint matrix]

Good

Steel and Fairy types need more humbling though

[viscid fossil]

Why didn't they give it king's shield

[full bison]

If anything, Zamazenta needed some form of recovery, maybe some redirection

A tank without recovery is like being a sweeper with Pyuku's learnset

[vocal pivot]

Get big wish fish

[viscid fossil]

and it can't even hold leftovers

[visual aspen]

zama should learn every alternate form of protect

[junior tiger]

Like Baneful Bunker? Spiky Shield? Burning Bullwark? None of those would make any sense for it. Even Obstruct is really pushing it

[potent gazelle]

he spins rapidly while doing it so darkest lariat should clear hazards, obviously 😉

[fair jewel]

Why wouldn't burning bulwark work? Just set its shield on fire

https://tenor.com/view/anime-demon-slayer-rengoku-set-your-heart-ablaze-dont-give-up-gif-27518966

[junior tiger]

Yes set a Steel type on fire I'm sure that will work splendidly

[fair jewel]

We've had worse combinations bruh

Like ground types learning surf, or water types like Lapras and Starmie learning thunderbolt

[visual aspen]

how dare heatran, a fire-steel type, exist!

[hexed agate]

Unfeasible

[visual aspen]

and yes, nidoking, rhydon, tyranitar, and aggron (to name a few), surely cannot learn surf as they are weak to water and would surely sink

[junior tiger]

This sums up my thoughts about this conversation perfectly

[trail hull]

guys , next year batch came to me in a dream

next year we will get all missing water types

[next flare]

How big will that batch be?

[trail hull]

this big:
Floatzel line
Gastrodon line
Lumineon line
Manaphy
Phione
Samurott line
Simipour line
Seismitoad line
Basculin
Alomomola
Clawitzer line
Wishiwashi
Carracosta line
Swanna line
Jellicent line
Keldeo
Primarina line
Araquanid line
Tapu Fini
Barbaracle line
Skrelp (evo isn't water but still)
Volcanion

[next flare]

Awesome

[trail hull]

almost 40 pokemons

[next flare]

I like that the update doesn’t include Dragalge

[trail hull]

we should call this update the hydration update

[next flare]

Pissmen hate it

[prime dust]

i would rather not have an entire batch of additions that is pretty much nothing but water mons

also we all know starters get added all together

[velvet root]

Unlikely

[quaint matrix]

MEGA LAUNCHER LET'S GOOOOOOOO

[velvet root]

I mean slowly we know Gogoat will be last so atleast one we know doesnt get in next time

[quaint matrix]

Also Rowlet and Litten confirmed if this is true

[velvet root]

Likely after gen 10 additions in the game

[muted venture]

i dont think we'll get megas man

[full bison]

That's been deconfirmed

Megas are definitely never happening

[viscid wren]

7.8/10 too much water

[trail hull]

We need more water

[viscid wren]

Frog should add more water routes, the game should be 80% water

[rancid nymph]

Nice try Archie, now go back to trying to find an orca in a volcano

[outer matrix]

Mainly a water type batch

Also volcanion

[rancid nymph]

Volcanion is a water type

[outer matrix]

Yeah

Although more water types would be nice for hoenn since, uh, y'know, the entire region is surrounded by water

[trail hull]

techincally we can [hyperlink blocked] our way to the tapus because hoenn is one an island

[next flare]

But consider…

It would be hella funny

[prime dust]

it wouldn't

[rancid nymph]

As the demon lizard has proven, one starter getting into the game before the others is never funny

[next flare]

When Frog makes this update, we need to make sure Basculin is moved to the end of the dex to perpetuate the troll fish legacy

[astral moat]

so... Basculegion for the extra inclusion?

[full bison]

Gen 8, not eligible

[astral moat]

yeah.... but a man can hope!

[next flare]

Basculegion would be the ultimate troll fish if was the sole mon to bypass the Gen 7 limitation

[rancid nymph]

Regional variants also aren’t in the game

[outer matrix]

Also basculegion has gender forms with different stats, so different slots if it was ever added in

[next flare]

Even better

[full bison]

I imagine Frog would figure something out in regards to regional forms getting separate evos if we ever did get the later gens added. In the case of Basculegion, it would just be to have regular Basculin evolve into it.
Purely hypothetical, I know, but I imagine that would be the situation there

There would be riots in the streets if Gen 9 Pokemon were officially made possible with Clodsire being an exception

[outer matrix]

"Butbutbutbut- guys! If clodsire was allowed, surely ceruledge, armarouge,-"

[rancid nymph]

You mean like it should’ve been in the first place

[quaint matrix]

I love regional evos!

[full bison]

Charcadet would most likely be one of the first additions if Gen 9 Pokemon were ever given eligibility. If for no other reason than the fan vote that usually happens with the roster updates

[quaint matrix]

I sure love having my original Pokemon staying dogwater and only it's regional form that is mostly rare/not occasionally available be able to evolve

[full bison]

Ceruledge fans are very passionate from what I've seen

[quaint matrix]

Charcadet line is a true return-to-form of just straight up human-like Pokemon

So I get it

Hatenna line is also very human-like but the hairs with big hat-like shape and the fact that its body is mostly obscured kinda make it seem a little more creatury

[outer matrix]

~~megaman-esque ~~

[full bison]

I would just spread as much Glimmora propaganda as I could in that situation tbh

[quaint matrix]

Charcadet line is straight up just badass "living armor" knight that is either a phantom or just literally always on fire

[outer matrix]

annihilape would be so cool but alas

[velvet root]

You dont think big enough

[quaint matrix]

I've been saying like

[velvet root]

That would be the ultimate troll fish
Noone uses him
He isnt good looking
And he would be the only gen 8+ mon

[quaint matrix]

If we ever need to break the Gen 8-9 seal just add the missing new evos for Girafarig Primeape and Bisharp

Really don't care about the others (not even the starters)

[velvet root]

Ngl I kinda agree about completing the lines and not adding the rest of gen 8+

[outer matrix]

I would make fusions of him since he reminds me of Splatoon's salmon run

And yeah, missing lines would be fine as well

[velvet root]

We do need more Splatoon fusions

[outer matrix]

Including dudunsparce

How could we ever forget dudunsparce

[outer matrix]

I only made like 4

And they're all meloetta

Oh and gimmighoul-line would be interesting fusion-wise

Since they involve cash

So

[next flare]

Meowth - part. 3

[outer matrix]

Garganacl

might be difficult as the body, but head fusions would be awesome as well

[full bison]

Hey, Filet Away Unburden strats would go hard