pif-hoenn-discussion

[weak trellis]

see also: Z-moves

[clear lichen]

Still somehow arguably not as uncompetitive as the others

Depends on how you want to handle Megas in the conversation

[viscid fossil]

They genuinely don't care about singles
Palafin and houndstone are meh in vgc but didn't they both have a campaign to ban them in smogon at some point

[quaint matrix]

I have to wonder if the reason they don't care about Singles is because that'd imply they actually care about Smogon's authority on the subject and that can't fucking happen

[clear lichen]

Campaign? There was no campaign

Both were quickbans

As simple as that

[quaint matrix]

Nintendo acknowledging the effect fans have in their games? Making a competitive scene out of them that we don't approve? Absolutely not

[clear lichen]

They definitely used to balance Singles to some extent too though

Though I think balance has been thrown out of the window for Singles and Doubles looks very poorly balanced too from here

[quaint matrix]

So here's GameFreak, notably making the games' main campaign almost always a singles battle format, just deciding "actually our official format is doubles!"

[clear lichen]

Idk, Competitive just feels like it's getting less balanced as a whole

[quaint matrix]

High-key to me the only good thing about making Doubles the official format is that Wolfe Glick sure is a great guy

[clear lichen]

Calyrex Shadow is still an affront to nature in both formats

[quaint matrix]

And that's the extent of how much I care about Doubles

[quaint matrix]

I mean this was still around the time they're toying about how to go and do official competitive stuff

[clear lichen]

Idk I sometimes see people being jerks over Doubles being the official format and stuff which is very annoying

[quaint matrix]

So they had to care about Singles because it is the format for their games' single player and the most played

Versus doubles which for awhile until recently is very much a new format like Triples is a new format

[clear lichen]

I wonder what VGC would look like if it was the battle stadium 3v3 Singles format style

Like, straight up they decided that's how it'd be in the first place

How different would Pokemon look when that's what they're balancing around?

[full bison]

Kinda funny how Gamefreak temporarily abandoned Megas for gimmicks that, from their perspective, benefit all Pokemon equally. But then it turns out that if you double the power of every single Pokemon, the already broken ones are the ones who benefit the most. Gee, who'd'a thunk it?

[quaint matrix]

Noooooo what do you mean

[clear lichen]

Remember, if you double 2 numbers, the difference is the only thing that doubles alongside them comparatively

... unless I'm forgetting something important

Which in that case I'm idiot

[full bison]

"This bad Pokemon can be good with Tera!" And this already good Pokemon becomes overpowered with Tera, so why would I use it on the bad one?

[quaint matrix]

I'm sure there's nothing bad about Tera-ing my already great defensive and offensive mons into Water

Or Steel

Or Fairy

Or Dragon once I cleared the Fairies off

[clear lichen]

I'm sure there's 0 issues with Terastalising Volcarona, with all its resistances and short list of weaknesses, into a synergistic type, allowing it to set up multiple more Quiver Dances

[quaint matrix]

I do love Tera as a concept but man it's way too omnipresent and kinda fucks up the way typing actually works

[clear lichen]

Or yknow just going "Fuck it we ball" and using Tera Ground, that works too

I love Volcarona but the people who insisted it wasn't broken with Tera are on some actual cope

[full bison]

Gee, Kingambit sure is a dangerous Pokemon, but at least it's kept in check with its crippling Fighting weakness. I sure hope it doesn't have a means of turning that weakness into a winning matchup- and it's now a Fairy

[clear lichen]

Fun fact: Many middling bulk resists are 1 Tera Dark away from a Sucker Punch OHKO

[quaint matrix]

Like I guess its nice that I can turn Beartic in ZU or Coalossal in PU into Ghost and it does kinda fix the inherent shittiness of their typung

[clear lichen]

Well, after a SD

This is not a joke btw I was playing a NatDex battle with someone yesterday and a +2 Kingambit straight up nearly OHKOd my Mega Lopunny from full

[quaint matrix]

But also good fucking christ does Weavile need to be able to turn into the more potently defensive Ghost for no reason

[clear lichen]

It wasn't Black Glasses, and Tera is banned

And it chunked hard

So unbelievably hard

I had Zamazenta in the back though I won either ways as that was their last

But still

[quaint matrix]

It is very funny tho that apparently Gliscor's best OU build is to just Tera into Normal because it genuinely is just kinda great to only have one 2x weakness than a 4x exploitable common weakness

Like that shit's cool, like Dragonite's Tera Normal ES chicanery

[clear lichen]

Looking at the calcs I think I may have been at -1 or 2 lol

[quaint matrix]

But what often happens is just making shit potent but in a way that just doesn't really change any inherent dynamic of using the mon

[clear lichen]

Wait I forgot to add the +2 multiplier

Nvm it lines up well

[quaint matrix]

Like oh wow Gholdengo is much better as a Fairy wow that's such a shock

Oh it's also much better as a pure Steel gee wow who could've seen that coming

[clear lichen]

I wouldn't say it's better as Fairy or Steel

I'd say that it's different

Well apart from Steel

[full bison]

I don't even Tera Ghold that often cause it's typing is already amazing and makes it fit a unique niche

[clear lichen]

That's just being really desperate for that extra power from Make It Rain

Which in that case like idk run Specs or something

[quaint matrix]

But again it still ties into my point of what Tera doing is really not doing anything groundbreaking in terms of breaking new ways for mons to be powerful outside of certain cases

[clear lichen]

Can Ghold run Specs well?

Not sure

I know it runs Scarf Trick

[quaint matrix]

And again admittedly I don't follow SV so all this comes from me seeing Smogon tiering/laddering systems so I can definitely be off base in how I opine about Tera

[clear lichen]

Idk, I just don't find it fun to have to play a guessing game on every fucking turn

Well ig that's kinda already true

But like even more of a guessing game

[quaint matrix]

Tbf that seems like the inherent shittiness in facing Gholdengho it seems

[clear lichen]

Especially bad in low and mid ladder

[viscid fossil]

Now I have "more usage than you" stuck in my head

[clear lichen]

Since those guys will run ANY type for Tera

And you will NEVER predict when they use it

Well, half the time

The other half it couldn't be more obvious

[full bison]

Ghold really did receive the absolute perfect combination of BS to make it the most annoying thing in existence, didn't it

[clear lichen]

But then again, I end up overthinking and think that they're feigning Tera

[quaint matrix]

Anyway my very much measured opinion is that Gen 3-5 is the peak of comp pokemon

And I should note that yes Dragon is bork insane in Gen 5 and it was never really a type I care much of

[clear lichen]

Because I just REALLY can't deal with the added type guessing game

Gholdengo isn't currently problematic tbh

Well, doesn't feel problematic

[quaint matrix]

Nor do I actually hate Fairy even though it is certifiably a broken (stacks a lot of paper) type

[clear lichen]

Mainly because of yknow

Everything else

[full bison]

I remember people tried to counter Ghold with Magnezone for a brief time before remembering "oh yeah, ghosts can't be trapped."

[clear lichen]

There's quite a bunch of issues in SV but everyone has a different idea of what's a bigger issue

[quaint matrix]

But shiiiiit DS era competitive is such a no frills (mostly) era and you can really feel it in the lower tiers

[clear lichen]

But I don't think I've seen many people say Gholdengo is the biggest issue in a long while

[quaint matrix]

I do have a soft spot for the 3DS era comps but it is also admittedly the last time I ever seriously worked with a mon meta and follow them a lot

[clear lichen]

It's Kyurem this, Gliscor that, Ogerpon-W this

You'd think with how much complaint their suspect tests would go poorly for them but they always avoid the ban by like 1% or something ridiculous

At least nobody is letting Palafin, or Solgaleo, or Lugia back in

I've ran the calcs, and both Solgaleo and Lugia beat Kingambit

[quaint matrix]

It's so funny to me that Kyurem is apparently an actual big OU mon

[full bison]

The fact that the SV meta is almost as chaotic as the BW meta when that's the one that became infamous for making some truly asinine ban choices really says a lot about the powercreep and insanity of Tera

[clear lichen]

These 2 Psychic types beat Kingambit

Now imagine you don't have a type advantage

What happens to you?

[quaint matrix]

After gens of being the shitter shell/carcass of the box art legendary mons it suddenly can actually make name for itself in the OU

[carmine pebble]

Darn, wanted to do a lolix fusion art

[quaint matrix]

I know the feeling

[clear lichen]

It was broken in Gen 8

That I know

[quaint matrix]

No shot it was????

[clear lichen]

Warped the entire metagame around it

And was banned

[quaint matrix]

I did hear apparently Kyurem just got significantly better movepools after Gen 7 so maybe that's a big part of it

[full bison]

Cause of Icicle Spear of all things

[quaint matrix]

Yeah that'll do it

[clear lichen]

I was expecting this gen to be a repeat of sorts where it flew under the radar and cropped up as problematic

And I was half right

[full bison]

Such a mid move before Loaded Dice was added and that was enough

[quaint matrix]

Turns out when you give mons a much more potent/varied movepool it sure fucking helped them

[clear lichen]

It did fly under the radar for a while

And it did crop up as problematic

But it isn't banned

Not currently at least

There was a literal 1 vote margin where the deciding factor was voter fraud and someone voting DNB as a joke

[full bison]

Shout out to Spectrier for fooling everyone into thinking its lack of coverage made it okay to keep around before people realized it hit so hard that Draining Kiss of all moves was extremely valuable. And also Will-O-Wisp IIRC

[clear lichen]

Tbh, all the bans apart from the Sleep ban are extremely easy to justify

The Chien-Pao unban was fucking wack though

[full bison]

Just goes to show how underestimated Ice is

[clear lichen]

Like I get they unbanned Gliscor, and Volcarona, and yeah that's cool

But like

[full bison]

It's an amazing type when used properly, it's just that 99.9% of Ice types use it horribly

[clear lichen]

THIS IS CHIEN-PAO

Volcarona also ended up banned again anyway lmao

Volcarona, I could see why they thought it would maybe be fine

Because the got massive backlash for quickbanning it

And as it turns out it rightfully earned the QB

Because it then got banned

I couldn't have seen this coming at all guys

Utterly bamboozling

[quaint matrix]

Oh you mean when they are built as the type is intended to be (freaky aggro speed demons) and not the 99% of the time where they're dogshit 'defensive' mons damn that's crazy dude

[clear lichen]

Idk, OU Council receives too much flak for this shit because all of their quickbans and the suspects that have gone through have been excellent

They're fucking cooking with these decisions

[full bison]

TBF most of the backlash comes from <13 year olds with the perspective of "metagames bad"

[weak trellis]

as I've said: "Born to deoxys-A, forced to shuckle"

[clear lichen]

There sure are a ton of those on the Internet then

[quaint matrix]

Shit I don't even think Shuckle is a bad mon in terms of what it's intending to do

[weak trellis]

outside of a few exceptions (intentional ones like weavile and pao, semi-intentional ones like mamo and eiscue, and unintentional ones like cloyster)

[clear lichen]

Because the sheer amount of harassment Finchinator in particular gets disgusts me

[quaint matrix]

I mean Shuckle sucks but it's not the fault of itself it just is the way it is

[clear lichen]

The harassment in general sucks but like that part is especially bad

[weak trellis]

right I was more saying "born to shuckle" in the context of having defenses as your only good stats lol

[quaint matrix]

It's more like "born to Deoxys-A, forced to Hisuian Avalugg"

[clear lichen]

Anyways I'm getting sidetracked

[clear lichen]

Hisuian Avalugg is funny

[weak trellis]

that's probably a little more correct if we want to stick to ice types themselves

[clear lichen]

Because it has BOTH the types made to be glass cannons

[quaint matrix]

I know Avalugg is an overhated mon comp-wise and I am not like

[clear lichen]

Which ended up being mainly used for slow bulky Pokemon

[quaint matrix]

Exempt from this problem

[weak trellis]

"forced to glaceon" also works

[clear lichen]

And you can't guess what it is

[quaint matrix]

But also how can you fucking not lmao

[full bison]

Second worst defensive type combo in the game on a super slow and bulky Mon is pretty funny

[weak trellis]

hence the "born to deoxys-A" because with that type your defenses are basically irrelevant lol

[clear lichen]

If they were gonna make Rock and Ice types generally slow and bulky

Couldn't they have made them defensive types

And not all out offensive ones

[quaint matrix]

Shoutout to this game fr for making me love Rock/Ice as freaky aggro speed demons turns out when that's how the type is they fucking rock

[clear lichen]

Was that not a possibility

[weak trellis]

Weavile Moment

[full bison]

If Hisuian Avalugg is funny, then Frosmoth is just sad cause it had the potential to be something way better

[weak trellis]

especially since Quote's work means that sneasel has body fusions with basically everything so weavile's late evo doesn't feel quite as bad as usual

[clear lichen]

With all the linking to night and being Ice/Bug, it feels like they wanted it to be a 2nd Volcarona

But then decided halfway "Nah, we're good"

[weak trellis]

doesn't frosmoth get quiver dance tho

[clear lichen]

I wish Frosmoth had Volcarona tier stats that'd be so cool

[full bison]

And none of the speed or defensive profile to make it work

[weak trellis]

then again I keep forgetting its speed stat isnt higher than like...65?

[clear lichen]

You know what Volcarona's BST is?

550

You know what Frosmoth's is?

475

It's not even close to being close

[full bison]

Frosmoth doesn't even look like it would be slow. But they saddled it with awful speed because slow Ice type meme

[clear lichen]

If Frosmoth had a higher BST I could see it as like

Base 90-100 Speed

[full bison]

The only other explanation is that they were scared of Ice Scales

But like

[clear lichen]

That'd about the range I'd expect

[full bison]

What's there to be afraid of

It's Bug/Ice

[clear lichen]

It is a very strong ability tbf

But yeah

Bug/Ice

[full bison]

It won't be living many of the more potent special attackers anyways

[quaint matrix]

Not just Weavile but it sure is Weavile lmao

[quaint matrix]

Honestly real talk I don't even hate Frosmoth's typing

You've mentioned this before but Bug as a defensive type is overly hated for no reason

[clear lichen]

The typing is bad but it's cool so yeah it's not my issue either

[quaint matrix]

If anything they're offensively dog and yet people don't seem to think about that for some reason

[clear lichen]

Bug/Ice is definitely not good defensively though like c'mon

[quaint matrix]

So just like Rock/Ice lol

I mean

[clear lichen]

It's like Fire/Bug except with one extra quad weakness and like half of the resists

[quaint matrix]

Frosmoth is not as big a failure/flop as Avalugg (Hisuian especially) but it certainly is a reigning example of how much GF just makes Ice mons wrong so much it sure feels intentional (intentionally mistakes but hey)

But still Bug as a type has really good merits to be defensive like we all know by now how surprisingly potent Bug/Steel is

[clear lichen]

Tbh it isn't like Fire/Bug I just brought it up because it's a Bug combo that is owned by a quiver dancing moth that is quad weak to Rock

[quaint matrix]

Stealth Rock moment

[clear lichen]

Frosmoth is tied with the Paradox Volcarona for my 2nd favourite moth

[quaint matrix]

I doubt Frosmoth (by extension Bug/Ice, by even more extension Bug in general) would not get such a spotlight if it wasn't statted in such a way they're just so shit in every way

[clear lichen]

I also want to note they're in the like

20 mon tie

[quaint matrix]

It's like how Rock/Dark is such a shit ass type when you really get down to the brass tacks but shit Tyranitar sure makes it work

[clear lichen]

That makes up the top 5

As in specifically 5th place

I'm indecisive

In fact, 1st place is also a tie

As is 3rd

[quaint matrix]

Thinking about it now idk anymore what constitutes my top 10

Well I lied a little

Meganium line is forever in my top 10

As is Blaziken line

When I think about it a lot of my top 10 used to be mostly Hoenn mons wow can you tell Pokemon Emerald was one of my first games ever

[clear lichen]

I know the rough structure of the top 5

Everything below that has a estimated spot that shifts with mood

[fresh junco]

So anyone know if hoenn is gonna add on to the base game or be a completley new game

Ive read the announcements and stuff and still am confused

[outer matrix]

A completely new game

[fresh junco]

oh damn

[outer matrix]

I wonder if mirage island will make an appearance

But y'know, more easily accessible

(And I'm specifically talking about the RSE version and not the one(s) found in ORAS)

[civic oasis]

Make hoenn have no water👍

[spice sage]

Team magma propaganda smh

[outer matrix]

nah hoenn needs more water

/j

[prime dust]

no clearly it needs more sky

[twilit reef]

Needs more of that fallen leaf texture and jungle trees that's only in fortree city and nowhere else

[next flare]

We just need earthquakes and tsunamis

Make everyone happy

[outer matrix]

more clouds in hoenn pls

|| /j ||

[velvet root]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-michael-groth-mandjtv-mandjtv-plays-jaw-dropped-gif-26913239

[hexed agate]

just look up

[hexed agate]

don't forget the hurricanes, Ray needs his fill

[outer matrix]

what about hailstorms

wait

the weather genies *could * make an appearance in hoenn

[thin pawn]

Thank god we can't have Enamorus

[hexed agate]

I'd love for that

[hexed agate]

yet

[thin pawn]

dont jinx it

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-clueless-clueless-emote-wojak-disturbed-gif-24266075

[outer matrix]

I mean, the genies would fit being in hoenn

[chilly sorrel]

i got the prism

but

there is no way up

without waterfall

which i dont have yet

[thin pawn]

ruh roh

[prime dust]

a thought occurs

we need to get Ducklett into the game

only then will we have peak nonsense

[weak trellis]

someone on the nuz forums run I did two years ago said the same thing... in the context of fusing it with ninetales to create ducktales

[prime dust]

exactly

https://tenor.com/view/ducktales-gif-24784479

[high haven]

Awoo-hoo!

[prime dust]

it will forever be stuck in your brain

[silk cobalt]

I could see it being like. a certain day of the week+timeframe, maybe one that varies on your trainer ID. Basically, 36 different possibilities.

[trail hull]

Since I bored I looked up all moves and abilities introduced in gen 8 and there’s a lot more then I thought.
141 moves and 33 abilities according to bulbapedia

[quaint matrix]

They have to considering they remove a lot of moves

Granted a lot of them are piece of shit hackjob moves like Bide and Razor Wind

But still

[junior tiger]

Yes the first few Generations really had zero clue how to make engaging and fair battle mechanics. Gen 1 is such a dumpster fire especially

[trail hull]

Gen 1 is held together by duck tape and a piece of gum

[hexed agate]

They removed Rototiller

[junior tiger]

That's a gratuitous upgrade for Gen 1
It's held together by prayer and unicorn tears

[trail hull]

[quaint matrix]

Oh I mean yeah

90% of the moves they removed yeah they should be removed when the opportunity presents itself

The other 10% are stuff like Return

And so many other interesting moves (even sig moves?!) just got removed

[prime dust]

if i had to guess it was likely a balance thing

[quaint matrix]

Yeah because Vespiquen was so insane that we need to take away her three sig moves

[ember bear]

talking about balance like gen 9 hasn't introduced stuff like last respect and shed tail

[clear lichen]

If the removal of Return is a kick in the shins for Normal types, the removal of Jump Kick is a kick in the shins for very specifically Dodrio

And Sawsbuck

Because those were very clearly too broken, beyond Mega Rayquaza tier broken

At least Low Kick is basically just drawbackless 120 BP in Ubers

Where you're definitely going to be viably running Dodrio

Yup

Definitely

[full bison]

The removal of Pursuit was the exact opposite of a balanced decision

Thanks to its removal Ghosts have been able to run roughshod over the meta

Having a move that could reliably revenge kill them was one of the only things keeping the type balanced

[weak trellis]

gen 8/9 balancing be like exclusively for 4v4 doubles and even that's handled poorly

[vocal pivot]

[vocal pivot]

Ah yes, the defensive bug/flying that is rampaging through ubers and hard countering to primal groudon

[vocal pivot]

Gholdengo's existence

[weak trellis]

still the reigning mentality is "don't try to make sense of what gamefreak does, you will go mad if you try"

[clear lichen]

Tbf, Pdon doesn't run Fire STAB often

... it runs Stone Edge

So yeah

[quaint matrix]

Man I can't wait for Vespiquen to be in PIF

Her stats but now fused as a Bug/Steel would go so hard

[full bison]

That plus Heal Order would make for a fun tank

[vocal pivot]

Add forretress and you have one hell of a wall

Heal order on a tanky bug/steel means free hazards

[full bison]

Even better, if Heatran was added at the same time the fusion could have Flash Fire, meaning no weaknesses

[vocal pivot]

[viscid fossil]

I want Heatran for one reason: bug/steel shedinja with flash fire would be funny
You'd naturally assume it has wonder gaurd and try to fire it
And get denied

[weak trellis]

only works for one turn but it is a very funny turn

[full bison]

It's like the "Arceus Steel" thing but significantly less viable

[warm skiff]

me when i move one tile too quickly and the game overwrites its own functions again

[trail hull]

lol

[inland jewel]

i do love after that t1 that the fusion's base 60 hp will kick in

[trail hull]

wonder guard set your hp to 1 in pif

[inland jewel]

The joke is that instead of wonderguard they chose Flash fire

so its a fusion that takes Heatran's base 90 and fuses it with Shedinja's base 1

so the player sees Bug/Steel and assumes Wonder Guard

[trail hull]

oh ok

[weak trellis]

which said fusion wouldn't quite have 1 HP (which is tied to wonder guard here) but still quite low HP

[outer matrix]

I wonder if hoenn will have legendary encounters from other gens

but

it's a bit too early to guess so

[full bison]

I'm sure that when Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, and the Cosmog line are eventually added in, they'll be events in Hoenn.

The space center gives us a perfect setup for Cosmog at least

[rancid nymph]

As far as I know, every Pokémon that’s in IF is going to be in IF Hoenn

[hexed agate]

I'm hoping for the genies

[full bison]

There's still going to be Pokemon encounterable in one game that aren't in the other and vice versa, only available through transfer or randomizers

[silk cobalt]

I don't think that's the case? They mentioned you may have to transfer some. Like, they'll be in the data/randomizers, but not in base.

yea

[full bison]

The Tapus could make sense for Hoenn too

[hexed agate]

I feel like the tapus are a bigger stretch imo

I mostly know where I'd place the genies, personally

[rancid nymph]

One on the mainland, one on Dewford, one on Mossdeep and one in Sootopolis maybe

[hexed agate]

Lando by the soot, one eastward, one over the stormy sea

[outer matrix]

I'll make some fusions of the genies if they get in

[full bison]

I'm just glad the Therian forms exist so there will be plenty of decent variation between the genie fusions

[outer matrix]

That actually brings a question if the therian forms will be seperate, like with minior and meloetta

[full bison]

That being said, I do wonder how Spriters will differentiate Incarnate head Fusions with Therian head Fusions

Therian forms would absolutely be separate

No reason they wouldn't be, really

They have both significant visual differences unlike Aegislash Shield/Blade form, and they have distinct gameplay differences unlike stuff like Cherrim

[outer matrix]

just wait until landorus-t makes a resurgence on fusion showdown

[full bison]

Fusing things with Therian Tornadus sounds like it would be the next big meta headache for the Showdown server lol

[outer matrix]

Yeah

[full bison]

Giving everything decent defenses, a solid Flying type, and Regenerator is a recipe for hell

[outer matrix]

At that point, he's probably going to be banned in showdown tbh

[full bison]

Is Pex legal on Showdown? Cause if it is, Tornadus-T probably would be too

It would just be a major headache

[hexed agate]

yes, Pex is legal

[velvet root]

Do you guys disguss non if mons that fit Hoenn?

[outer matrix]

I guess

~~gogoat for hoenn when ~~

[velvet root]

Gotta say as much as I love Gogoat I have no idea where I would place it in Hoenn

[storm kestrel]

Will the entire Hoenn dex be present in this? Or will some mons be missing?

[velvet root]

It will

[storm kestrel]

Cool!

[velvet root]

But I dont remember all of Hoenn so there is that

[full bison]

I do kinda hope that a regional Dex gets posted at some point to give an idea of the mons that are and aren't in PIF Hoenn

Give an idea of the kind of fusions that can be prioritized to make sprites for

[trail hull]

in kalos it is found in a grassland so somewhere without too much tree would be great

[full bison]

Cause I doubt the game will just have the RSE Dex and nothing else

[storm kestrel]

Well with RSE, Hoenn added 135 new pokemon

[velvet root]

I expect all pif mons that are in RSE or ORAS
Fletchling line is confirmed too

[trail hull]

most likely will be the entire hoenn dex (202) + cross gen evo and prevo

[velvet root]

So likely mons that would fit too

[trail hull]

and then some extra

[storm kestrel]

I'm excited to see the poochyena and mightyena fusions, as they are two of my favorite gen 3 mons

[full bison]

That "some extra" is what I'm most interested in

[outer matrix]

Maybe we can take a look at ORAS' dexnav as a possibility

[trail hull]

we know at least the fletchling line

[outer matrix]

All I remember is that sewaddle is a dexnav encounter on the first route

In hoenn

[trail hull]

classic mode will prob get 300 mons and then modern will have more

[full bison]

Klinklang could make sense for the New Mauville area

[storm kestrel]

yeah

[outer matrix]

Oh, and uh chatot is somewhere else

[storm kestrel]

the safari zone will be interesting, as it of course has the normal areas, but also has a few more after you get the national dex

[velvet root]

Maybe near the Whismur tunnel

[full bison]

A lot of Alola mons could actually fit Hoenn too, considering the whole tropical thing

[storm kestrel]

yeah

[trail hull]

maybe

[trail hull]

almost all water type we're missing could fit in

[storm kestrel]

that's rusturf tunnel

and yeah, only thing you can find is Whismur

[outer matrix]

Hoenn doesn't have a snow area, right?

[storm kestrel]

unless you count the static Geodude

[trail hull]

shoal cave

[storm kestrel]

this

[velvet root]

Also I expect Golisopod in Hoenn
On one hand cuz it fits on the other cuz we used a Submarine from Hoenn

[storm kestrel]

would durant and heatmor fit well in Hoenn?

[full bison]

We also know that the areas around there can have Snowstorms, so that's worth thinking about in terms of Ice mons

[velvet root]

Rockruff on the same route you normaly find Numel sounds normal

[trail hull]

because it's the only game that has a submarine that was also explain during the hype day

[velvet root]

Around the Vulcano yes

[storm kestrel]

cool

[trail hull]

tho to get a snow in other area it has to spread from shoal cave so prob not very early game

[velvet root]

Idc it fits

[full bison]

Such is the unfortunate fate of Ice types in Pokemon in general. Always late game, rarely actually viable by that point

[velvet root]

I can see Crabrawler on a early Route and around gym 3 we find a Ice stone

[outer matrix]

Dhelmise near the Sunken ship area

[storm kestrel]

sea mauville

[full bison]

One or the other

[storm kestrel]

I like that emerald made the story for team magma and aqua make more sense

cause why would team magma use a submarine?

[full bison]

I do kinda hope Archie gets more than the one single fight he has in Emerald. And actually uses water moves lol

[storm kestrel]

yeah, his team was never really much of a threat compared to Maxie

[full bison]

I want Archie and Maxie to use Weather teams due to it being thematically appropriate, personally

[storm kestrel]

that would be a waste of moves on their mons though

[full bison]

Just have a Pelliper or Torkoal and it will be fine

[storm kestrel]

or ninetales/politoed

though later on, if they use Groudon and Kyogre respectively

then they'll cover that

[silk cobalt]

Here's one thing I'm curious about. The reason Vendanturf has really fresh air is that the wind blows north. With the weather changing dynamically, and perhaps intensely once legendaries get involved, I wonder if that will change as one progresses the game.

[storm kestrel]

well there's also the town Flannery is in, how that town isn't affected by the ash of the volcano is beyond me, cause I'm pretty sure it's surrounded by the mountain

[silk cobalt]

yea

[velvet root]

Who says they dont get fused lol

[outer matrix]

the question is: what WILL they fuse the legendaries with?

[velvet root]

What if Archie and Maxie fuse each other and the legends

[outer matrix]

...both team leaders get fused together?

[trail hull]

Well we do have the magmaqua discord role

[silk cobalt]

[deft obsidian]

Team maqua

[outer matrix]

finally, PIF: Humans

[deft obsidian]

Or team aquma( akuma

[silk cobalt]

I am curious on what they'll fuse with, if any. PIF made it so the fusion angle and the birds came earlier and involved it. So I wonder what the deal would be.

I think there are a few different angles. For instance, Devon's got fossil-restoration technology, and IIRC they're working on devices that works on dreams??? I do know they have one research thing going on that's trying to translate Pokémon speech

Okay, yes, they're working on a Dream Visualizer, even in the games.

I think the speech thing too, but it's just one scientist who mentions it? Might be wrong. The anime has one that's trying to transform humans into Pokémon.

dream visualization and talking to pokemon are both in game yes

They did try to steal stuff from Devon, IIRC. Although I forget if there was like, a specific reason. I assume the details on the ship to break into the Seafloor Cavern?

[rancid nymph]

Isn’t the only person who can talk to Pokémon N?

[clear lichen]

OK, but Torkoal and Pelipper are from Hoenn, while Ninetales and Politoed aren't

Anyways, Sharpedo shouldn't be too hard to work with

[silk cobalt]

They're trying to work on technology that will do that, I mean.

But, yes, I think so. Iris is understanding the hearts of dragons, but N is like, very specifically I know exactly what you're saying down to someone's home address

[clear lichen]

But Camerupt's stat spread is so garbage I struggle to see how PIF Hoenn could make it even remotely a threat

Apart from adding Mega Camerupt I suppose

[prime dust]

megas won't be a thing

[clear lichen]

Exactly

[prime dust]

the game already has the fusion gimmick

[clear lichen]

So basically Maxie is playing 1 Pokemon down

Because Megaless Camerupt has negative stats

You aren't fixing that with fusions

[outer matrix]

what pokemon would benefit camerupt then

when fused

[silk cobalt]

I mean, as someone who's done solo runs, there's obvious ways to delete it, but magnitude Can Hurt

[clear lichen]

Idk, Fire/Ground is a pretty great type

So it's not like Camerupt can improve by much in that department

[prime dust]

hm, the issue really is the defenses it has

[silk cobalt]

I'd probably do something with Solid Rock and good typing.

[prime dust]

it has a decent atk and spatk

[clear lichen]

Camerupt is just a slow, frail, weak mixed attacker

[silk cobalt]

Perhaps Aggron?

[clear lichen]

The Gen 3 formula

[silk cobalt]

Unsure.

[clear lichen]

It already has a good typing tbf

Just that since it's Camerupt, it is utterly incapable of using it

[silk cobalt]

Double Weak to Water is a pretty huge blow, honestly

[clear lichen]

You could make this mf Fairy/Steel and it'd still be a fucking fraud

[rancid nymph]

Especially in Hoenn

[outer matrix]

fire/grass

[rancid nymph]

7.8/10, finish the quote kids

[clear lichen]

Whether or not you're weak or quad weak to a type, you're switching out anyways

Unless you're stupid and want to trade Ferrothorn for Mega Diancie

Because Ferrothorn does just tank Mystical Fire

[prime dust]

well the options would be either find something else that is a mixed attacker with butts defenses but is a lot faster, or keep the slow speed and find something that can give it bulk without really sacrificing too much [if anything at all] from its good stats

[clear lichen]

Because Ferrothorn is the GOAT

Mega Diancie on the other hand is getting sent to the next dimension by Gyro Ball

[full bison]

You know what would help Maxie's Camerupt out with its water weakness? Being in a Sun team.

[clear lichen]

Like genuinely why do low ladder players swap their Mega Diancie in on Ferrothorns

Like you can't be so thirsty for Magic Bounce that you'd send out a Rock/Fairy into a Steel can you?

[prime dust]

camerupt/garchomp might work, it retains that fire/ground typing. sure it pushes it more into the atk catagory rather than a mixed attacker but

[silk cobalt]

We're dealing with Pokémon AI here.

[clear lichen]

OK, so?

[silk cobalt]

🫠

[clear lichen]

You're still swapping out against something you have a weakness OR quad weakness to

Unless you can KO it first

[silk cobalt]

The AI doesn't know your moves, though. Also, it's his ace, so it's typically not his lead.

[clear lichen]

And Fire/Ground is good offensively

However Camerupt is not only slow but shit

And will do low damage even if it landed a hit

(It won't)

[clear lichen]

Ah, right, fair enough

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/sure-john-cena-are-you-sure-gif-5783187

[clear lichen]

In context of AI quad weakness is a blow

Anyways, preferably Maxie/Archie lead with a Torkoal/Pelipper fusion

For the weather, yknow?

[silk cobalt]

Okay, back to the question of what they'd have. We obviously add Koffing/Grimer and Baltoy/Wailmer. to the relevant team's list.

I could imagine Flygon being in Magma. There's other water-types to randomly throw in.

Although it's typically the same, it could also be "east region, west region" or "by the sea, by the land" etc.

[clear lichen]

I could see like

Swift Swim Ludicolo on Archie's team

And Chlorophyll Shiftry on Maxie's

Going under the assumption they're running Pelipper/Torkoal

[full bison]

Archie should have a Dhelmise on his team. Doesn't fit with any weather gimmick, but it's so thematically appropriate

[clear lichen]

Does weaken Fire moves that Dhelmise is weak to

[silk cobalt]

Ludicolo's a good idea.

And Crobat exists. If you combine the Koffing/Grimer (i forget which they have) with one type, you can get Crobat's flying type on another.

I could even see something like Mightyena and Manetric being on their team.

Or just in general version exclusives. One has Seviper, another Zangoose, etc.

[full bison]

Mightyena is iconic on their teams, I can't see Frog taking it away from them

[silk cobalt]

I always thought both of them having Mightyena and Crobat in the exact same game though is lame. I assume even if we don't go for Emerald's plot, you fight both.

Maybe it's like....you'll have a choice at the 3/4ths point which team you go after, or masquerade as?

And that affects some stuff?

[clear lichen]

Hear me out

So you have your Drought setting fusion

And then in the back

Shifty/Typhlosion with Chlorophyll, Solar Beam and Eruption

Because fuck it we ball

[full bison]

We gotta have Water Spout Wailord fused with a Swift Swimmer as well, to be fair

[clear lichen]

Ludicolo

Because like

We're using Shiftry for this

So we get its counterpart

[mild lake]

is hoenn gonna be like

brand new sperate game of infinite fusion or

• region

[velvet root]

new Game

[mild lake]

🙏

[opaque sorrel]

Im praying for Yveltal and Zygarde in this new game

[full bison]

I'll personally wait on expressing my wishlist until Frog says more mons than the ones we know about will be added

[grave jolt]

Tbh I don't think it's likely that many new pokemon beyond the ones from gen 3 who are not added yet will get in. Making a new game in itself is a huge undertaking we never thought would be possible.

[terse fable]

It's pretty hype, excited to see where it goes

[rancid nymph]

I disagree. I don’t think we’re going to get ANY new mons aside from the missing Gen 3 mons. That’s already, what, 60 something new mons on top of a brand new game

[grave jolt]

Yeah I checked the FAQ after posting that to check what's getting in lmao

They already said it's just gen 3

[craggy nexus]

We definetelly getting more but not till the hoenn game is out

[hexed agate]

we got double of what we got last year in terms of pokemon already

it's funny how by simplifying the additions to the rest of gen 3 people lose sight of just how many pokemon that actually was

but it's also the nature of the reveal format

[quaint matrix]

In fairness a lot of it also that the rest of Gen 3 not added is like

Not the best in terms of how great the mons are

I love Mightyena with all my heart but he is a fuck ass early game critter that is cool because they happen to be mono-Dark (and why I want mons like them in-game, see nickname)

[weak trellis]

the final gen before the physical special split and the stats show lol

[weak trellis]

oh. Mightyena at least scoots by on intimidate just fine

[quaint matrix]

Like if we're being realistic in terms of playability so many of them range from amazing to just shy to oof ouchie

[grave jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/walrein-pokemon-sealeo-rolling-gif-25539626

[quaint matrix]

Volbeat especially is tragic because once he's in he's your only way of getting Tail Glow which is just an F for everyone involved

[weak trellis]

IF is at least the place where some of them can get second leases on life like pelipper, have good niche stuffs like clamperl, or become Cheese mons like delcatty

[quaint matrix]

On the other hand some of the mons added from this are absolutely needed and clearly loved from the jump even if playability is out the window

[grave jolt]

Volbeat getting in means you might HAVE to trade a pokemon across games for tail glow lmao

[quaint matrix]

Stuf flike Walrein, Crawdaunt, Hariyama, Medicham, Manectric, Shiftry, Mightyena (this is definitely just me lmao), the Zangoose/Seviper enemies to lovers romance, Tropius

And I'm pretty sure a lot of people also loved the first-ever pikaclones and Pelipper as well

[weak trellis]

I would say rip lanturn but it's good Big Bord cheese even without tail glow

[grave jolt]

I'm suprised Clampearl isn't in considering how many clams there are on the ground in the sevii islands and under the water

[quaint matrix]

Yeah it feels like a very natural addition too if Lotad's lilypad encounters are anything to go by

You can even extend it with Shellder and other clam-ish mons

[rain locust]

wait if you learn tg in old if and then transfer cant you keep it

or does it dexit

[outer matrix]

TM?

[full bison]

I'll gladly have a Tail Glow TM as opposed to the Spore one so my boy Ampharos can still get it

[junior tiger]

Mono Dark is at least a decent monotype, a whole bunch of types by themselves are pretty MEH.
Also, we have over 1000 unique Pokémon species plus tons and tons of forms and we STILL have some dual-types that have never even existed yet
I do agree that some type need more mono Pokémon, but I also think in general the number of individual type combinations is so messed up. We have OLENTY of mono-Normal and mono-Water types, please move on elsewhere.
But there's that same problem with certain dual-types too, in over the Normal-Flying and Dragon-Flying combinations. They've been tired since Gen 4

[summer apex]

Depending on how you look at it, there are anywhere from 9 to 12 dual types that don't exist in the main games.

The following combos don't exist at all:

• Normal / Rock
• Normal / Bug
• Normal / Steel
• Normal / Ice
• Fire / Fairy
• Ground / Fairy
• Ice / Poison
• Rock / Ghost
• Bug / Dragon

And the following combos only exist for specific non-standard forms:

• Fire / Electric (Rotom Heat)
• Dragon / Fairy (Mega Altaria)
• Ice / Fire (Zen Mode Glr. Darmanitan)

Looking at this list, I sorta understand why most of them don't exist. Normal is good for mono types but it's hard to combine with other types... what would normal & rock be? Or normal & bug?

[velvet root]

Probably something sound based (the normal things)

[summer apex]

ok admittedly when thinking about normal/bug I just pictured a cricket wearing a suit & tie and now I think it should exist

[full bison]

Dragon/Fairy is just in this quantum state where it only exists if Megas are allowed to

It's such a cool type combo too, you would think Gamefreak would be jumping to make more

[grave jolt]

Looked through the dex for the mono type pokemon currently accessable In Infinite Fusion:
We have 3 mono bugs
We have 4 mono Dark
We have 10 Mono Dragons
We have 15 Mono Electric types
We have 9 Mono Fairy Types
We have 10 Mono Fighting Types
We have 22 Mono Fire types
We have 0 Pure Flying Types
We have 9 mono Ghost types
We have 18 mono grass types
We have 8 mono ground types
We have 4 mono Ice types
We have 37 pure normal types
We have 12 pure poison types
We have 17 pure Psychic types
We have 9 Mono rock types
We have 4 mono steel types
We have 37 mono water types

[junior tiger]

But even if only a single dual-type combo were missing, I'd really say there should be a little more effort put toward adding at least one final-evo version of that combination before adding 75 more mono-type Pokémon of any type that already has quite a few. That's basically my point, the distribution of how many of each type combination exists is very VERY skewed

And pure Flying is a really weird exception @grave jolt because it was only with Tornadus and the Corviknight line that we got any mono-Flying type (because of ALL the stupid Normal-Flying types UGH)

[summer apex]

so it's just Tornadus then lol

[tacit saddle]

water overloved as usual

oh and normal apparentyl

[junior tiger]

Exactly as I said, yes

[ember bear]

erm arceus flying

[lofty spindle]

I once had an idea for a Normal/Bug evo of Furret that is even longer and has extra legs.

[quaint matrix]

Another day at GameFreak where Water can get away with anything

[grave jolt]

Mind you that list is the ones currently in Pokemon IF, so it's community bias if anything

For new Monotypes coming with Hoenn:
2 Dark types (Poochyena line)
9 Normal Types (Zigzagoon line, Whismer line, Skitty Line, Spinda)
3 Bug types (Wurmple, Silcoon, Cascoon)
2 Fighting Types (Makuhita line)
4 Electric Types (Electrike line, Plusle, Minun)
2 Poison Types (Gulpin line)
4 Psychic Types (Spoink line, Baltoy line, Chimecho)
5 Water Types (Mudkip, Corphish, Clampearl line)

and Castform

[quaint matrix]

Oh I wasn't talking about IF it's just GF in general

[magic sail]

I feel like design wise normal could have been added to a couple pre evolutions even if the later evos removed it
Rockruff 100% could have been normal/rock
nincada could have been normal/bug
galarian Meowth could have been normal/steel
Idk about ice, maybe Cetoddle?

[clear lichen]

Isn't there an implementation where normal/flying types always pass on Flying anyways?

[grave jolt]

They got rid of the special type rules a while ago.

[clear lichen]

Darn

Well, at least Tornadus-Therian is probably an excellent thing to fuse to

[quaint matrix]

Except the Normal/Flying rule it actually still is around

[clear lichen]

Oh ok

[quaint matrix]

And also the only one sticking around

[grave jolt]

Oh cool

[deft obsidian]

You forgot seviper and zangoos

[grave jolt]

You're right, I forgot to name them but I did include them in the count. The number should be accurate

[prime dust]

shame there is only a single pure flying type in all of pokemon up to/including gen 7

[vital moth]

When will pif 1 be considered in a state where the devs consider it completed

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/never-harrypotter-angry-fire-no-gif-4751988

[prime dust]

dev
singular

as to when it would be considered complete

probably the same time as the inevitable heat death of the universe

[trail hull]

well technically since we're getting a sequel story wise it's completed

and maybe gameplay in general

[spice sage]

never I'm actually planning to release a new 6.6 update very soon.

(but really I've considered it complete for years, but that doesn't mean I want to stop adding to it)

[full bison]

Frog on that Re-logic grind

[viscid fossil]

When every mon has a custom

[vestal wharf]

Wait what

[vestal wharf]

Frog can you add back fusion breeding pls

[rancid nymph]

The dev isn’t the one who does that though

Also, you forgot custom dex entries

[hushed axle]

Why tho

There’s really no reason for it

[velvet root]

True but I see where Beedev comes from, you could also give it some restictions like no legendary breeding and if one mon is fused the baby can be a mix from one of all parents so you never know what hatches

[hushed axle]

I suppose. Breeding in this game isn’t super useful to begin with imo (outside of dex completion)

IV breeding isn’t needed w/ super splicers and Egg moves have a tutor

[velvet root]

Exactly
I think it would just be a fun thing for some

[torpid oracle]

Hoenn is most definitely my favorite generation of pokemon

so I'd love to see what yall come up with

[velvet root]

For rme its Unova
I can also see Kalos look cool in 2d and some tweaks

[prime dust]

it was a bug with how fusions were coded

it got fixed when that was changed, i don't think it can be added back in

[pale sparrow]

I'm always down to make a new remix encounter file for IF1 remix mode when the gen 3 mons are added, but if frogman will officially update the game with it is another question

[tacit saddle]

that message was from a week ago how the hell did oyu Find it

[prime dust]

sheer force of will

or ctrl+f

[pale sparrow]

I put my name into the search bar every now and then to see if people were talking about me (usually they aren't )

[tacit saddle]

LMAOO 😭

thats incredibly real im afraid

[trail hull]

Same

[pale sparrow]

I mean I've not been very active on this server for quite a while now, so no suprise

but I do still work on remix mode so there is stuff relevant to that from time to time

[alpine rune]

hI tomato

[pale sparrow]

Since you are doing that, would you be down to push these files alongside that update? 👀

There were some errors in the last remix mode update that I fixed a while ago, but I don't think many people know about these (they are only pinned in playthrough talk) and it's a bit of a shame to keep those errors in for all eternety xD

[spice sage]

sure

[prime dust]

leave only the funny errors

[rain locust]

is there a list of learnset additions in if

[junior tiger]

For this, it would need to be something evolving into a new dual-type, not simply dropping the type entirely. Azurill sets this precedent.

[prime dust]

learn set stuff is like 90% based on US/UM learn set

[rain locust]

yeah im asking about the 10%

[prime dust]

there is no list of it to my knowledge

or if there is, i have 0 idea where it is

[rain locust]

[inland jewel]

the 10% is egg moves

which is gen 5

unless they from gen 6-7 then its gen 7

[rain locust]

so chomp gets ddance from egg move⁉️

[full bison]

Vibrava also gets Boomburst in this IIRC, which it definitely doesn't get in mainline

As well as the infamous Aggron Quiver Dance

[clear lichen]

As in, Vibrava itself doesn't get Boomburst?

Because Flygon definitely does

[thin pawn]

aggron got moves

[clear lichen]

I know that for a fact

[thin pawn]

Vibrava gets boomburst at level 47 in gen 7

[clear lichen]

OK

I knew Flygon does

Flygon is after all heavily linked to sound in the Pokedex

So it makes sense

But wasn't sure of Vibrava

Also since when does Chomp ever get Ddance in any way shape or form

Am I stupid?

[rain locust]

not in vanilla

thats what im asking

what if specific moves are there

[clear lichen]

All the new moves learnt are from TMs, no?

Aggron Quiver Dance is TM

Whimsicott Spore is TM

Etc

Ig also move tutors

[rain locust]

[clear lichen]

Ah

That's uhh

That's a Ddance on a Garchomp

Oh

... Is Ddance a TM too?

It is, ok

So that's probably how Garchomp gets Ddance

Like I said, all new moves seem to be TM based

Devs, make Oricorio compatible with Quiver Dance TM, and my life if yours

[full bison]

I just want a Tail Glow TM so Ampharos doesn't end up losing a move it's wanted for years to goddamn Volbeat

[rain locust]

well if you teach it to ampharos and then transfer wouldnt it still have tg

[junior tiger]

It does have vibrate as part of its name so I'd say that's pretty heavily implying sound too

[rain locust]

Why didn’t it get Quiver Dance then? Is it stupid?

[junior tiger]

It gets it via breeding in Gen 9 so there's precedent. I'd recommend making a game suggestion post

[prime dust]

if memory serves, stuff like that is rare to get in

[junior tiger]

Yes but not suggesting at all guarantees it a 0% chance of getting in. Can't hurt to suggest it

[viscid fossil]

But is the chance of it getting in and benefit of it getting in be worth the amount of time it would take to type the suggestion?

[cyan plover]

we will milk the hella of castform

[thin pawn]

How do you even make a game suggestion post

[cyan plover]

https://discordapp.com/channels/302153478556352513/302153790004527104/1052025410759708752 right here

[full bison]

There's also a suggestion form you can sign at #announcements if you want it in PIF Hoenn

[junior tiger]

That's a personal thing, doing anything requires effort so if that's too much for you then that would be a

[molten loom]

or its also in #server-forms

[thin pawn]

awesome sauce

I had something I really wanted to suggest but didn't know how

Now that I know how I forgot what it was

[cyan plover]

this is the case of *go to the kitchen and forgots what you want there

[thin pawn]

for sure

[regal solar]

so wait is PIF: Hoenn gonna have the sprites for the same fusions from the original PIF or am I gonna have to attempt to port them in with file shenaniganery

ok nvm there's a faq

[hexed agate]

Currently listening to the Hoenn soundtrack, I'm mostly done with the main songs, and I wanted to capture my nostalgia in my arrangements and compositions before I got to listen to the tracks again to fix stuff I was missing

There's definitely some tracks that I feel make more sense than what the original instrumentation would suggest, but that's also down to the fact that the GBA was, in fact, a GBA

[prime dust]

what if for the ones that might be a bit odd you consider using the oras versions

worst case scenario neither work and you'd have to tweak it in some capacity

[fresh tangle]

hello! I vaguely remember there being a suggestion form for PIF:Hoenn, is it still up?

[sudden jackal]

maybe

[fresh tangle]

any idea where I can find it?

[sudden jackal]

nope

[hexed agate]

@fresh tangle

[hexed agate]

That's roughly what I'm doing, though I'm having my fun with it

[fresh tangle]

thank you!

[hexed agate]

Because I want to avoid doing what ORAS did with completely wrecking the flow of some songs

Np

[sudden jackal]

add psyduck its been in every game

[glass kite]

make hitmontop eveolve by spinning your chararcter

ampharos light house form

[inland jewel]

hmm, now to curate a playlist of all your favorite pokemon songs

[quaint matrix]

What I'm hearing is the Wild Encounter theme you posted ain't gonna be final right

[hexed agate]

It could not be, but the complaint of the trumpet is dumb and stinky

[quaint matrix]

Eh I get it depending on the songs

[prime dust]

no...do not remove the trumpet

add more

[hexed agate]

I already posted the improved version here

It only gets better with age

[devout igloo]

Trumpets + low hp warning makes me feel young again

[craggy nexus]

hey just a reminder theres still 4 days left to design a grunt https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Nlo2cdu8ExTt7BYnOasvKV4quXciEMFM?usp=drive_link

[velvet root]

Not really hoenn related
But am I the only one who would like Patrat

[thin pawn]

Yes

[full bison]

Yup

[velvet root]

Sad

I think he would be a fun addition

[full bison]

If I have to put up with any more Super Fang Confuse Ray Hypnosis shenanigans, I'm throwing my laptop out the window

[velvet root]

But you could use it

[full bison]

Using it is boring

It's the perfect combination of not satisfying to use and infuriating to fight

I hate it with a passion

[velvet root]

So you say I should fuse it with Naganadel

Btw is it the only Role mon not being in yet

[inland jewel]

love the guy, can't wait for him to come back in ZA

[thin pawn]

You heard the man Frogzilla

500 more stall mons in PIF2

[weak trellis]

late-ish but patrat/watchog feels like a mon that's more meant to be used against you than by you

kinda like jumpluff and koffing/weezing

that being said I would 100% accept that as a good alt for raticate/luxray in the meantime

[muted crest]

I’m just gonna assume that once the hoenn update comes out the remix mode will be altered for the new Pokémon right?

[full bison]

Jumpluff is actually pretty fun to use in Double Battles. AKA I would never use it in the mainline, but in PIF It's pretty enjoyable

Tailwind and Rage Powder are really nice to have in Doubles

[inland jewel]

From what’s been said, the dev doesn’t plan on making the hoenn mons available in PIF outside of randomizer

Though that’s only for base game

Idk if the Remix team wants to find a way to include 60+ Mon in an already overfilled mode

What’s more likely to happen is PIF Hoenn has a new remix mode

[brittle wave]

Like the original PIF but different, will there be ore of my pokemon constellations? Besides the observatory, will you connect the dots and get sharpedo constellation, ursaring constellation, etc. through telescopes from any building? Because that is my idea for PIF:Hoenn 😄 Because I made a lot of pokemon constellations

[hushed axle]

Hoenn is the perfect spot for it tbh w/ the mossdeep space center

[brittle wave]

yeah, it does not have to be the same constellations but the others. That is what I am referring to, you know what I mean? 😄

[hushed axle]

There’s a #server-forms for ideas/suggestions for PIF-Hoenn if you wanna fill it out

[brittle wave]

sure I will fill that out 😄

[next flare]

The constellations Bubba is referring are all alts for Spiritomb fusions
I don’t think that suggestion will go far

[hushed axle]

I think another observatory like the one on mt moon would be cool, regardless of who’s sprites/whatever it uses

[real linden]

@hushed axle maybe at mt chimney or meteor falls

[full bison]

Not sure the area around an active volcano and the massive cloud of ash it's spewing out is the absolute best place for an observatory, but there really aren't any other mountains in Hoenn IIRC

[real linden]

There is 3 good areas besides Mt chimney, also there are areas that work at the zones around mt chimney

Like at the ski lift

[hushed axle]

Yea, mossdeep space center

[hushed axle]

^

[junior tiger]

Hawaii has active volcanoes on Big Island and has observatories as we speak. Kilauea is the most regularly active volcano in the world. It wouldn't be an issue in Hoenn even if the location was atop the active volcano

[winter raven]

So Hoen aka g3? Will we see a bigger dex?

[sturdy frost]

the dex will be the same in both games.'

[winter raven]

awwwww but fair

[sturdy frost]

as in, full g3 will be added at least in PIF:Hoenn.
when they are - they will also be added to PIF

[winter raven]

I still want mightyenna

too cute to be left out in the cold

[sturdy frost]

so yes, a bigger dex compared to now. but ultimately both games will have the same dex

[winter raven]

Also I wanna do a puppy playthrough and we need more doggos

[winter raven]

So if you add to one Classic will get the update too?

[sturdy frost]

yip

[winter raven]

whew okies

I was taking that as the dex is forever set at this point

[sturdy frost]

nahh

[winter raven]

*Holds up her Team Sky banner for Hoenn"

[outer matrix]

They're confirmed to be joining the roster don't worry

[winter raven]

YAY!

[hexed agate]

Another cruel, cold year with no Charjabug

[thin pawn]

Charjabug is too slow hes taking his time getting added

[hexed agate]

I won't get to hear the cheerful "beep beep" this year

[bold stratus]

I second this

[trail hull]

it will get added in this update

[cloud sage]

So is this a new game or a big update

[hushed axle]

New game

[cloud sage]

Okay still the same as of downloading and with joiplay or different

[hushed axle]

Well the game hasn’t released yet so

Neither

[cloud sage]

Oh

[tawny fox]

Will Pokemon up to gen 8 eventually be added?

[hushed axle]

Like all Pokemon pre gen 8? Maybe eventually. Gen 8+? No.

[tawny fox]

I mean like Gen 8 so for example, Corviknight

[hushed axle]

No, that would be part of Gen 8+

[tawny fox]

so 8 and up alright

[thin pawn]

Tech limitation

[tawny fox]

Could you explain the specifics if you don't mind, Imma nerd for that stuff

if you can anyway

[hushed axle]

Yoink #pif-hoenn-discussion message

[tawny fox]

😯

[hushed axle]

He’s talked about it more in the past as well but that’s the most recent afaik

[tawny fox]

So wait, what is the "newest" pokemon in fusion?

[hushed axle]

Gen 7 mons

In terms of latest dex num, probably necrozma

[spiral musk]

ultra necrozma would be the newest yeah

[crude falcon]

This may have come up already, but is it feasible for them to have a way to transfer pokemon from PIF kanto/johto to PIF Hoenn? I have no idea how hard it’d be to implement

[full bison]

That's what's in the plan

[hushed axle]

It’s mentioned in the #announcements but yes, that’s the plan

[crude falcon]

Oh awesome!!!

[hushed axle]

#announcements message specifically this one

[crude falcon]

I can’t believe I missed that sentence

[tawny fox]

well that answers it

me waiting for zeraora

so i can do pikachu zeraora combo

[vocal rover]

They hated god because he spread the truth .....evil weather boy yaoi

[tawny fox]

uhhhh

Kami Trio?????????

[prime dust]

do you mean the genies? we don't have those yet, no guarantee on when we will get them

https://tenor.com/view/teamfourstar-mr-popo-all-these-squares-make-a-circle-tripping-balls-high-af-gif-14789216505314014950

[full bison]

Apparently their official title is "the forces of nature." Which is a hilariously badass title for one of the most hated legendary trios out there

[prime dust]

nope, they are genies

[outer matrix]

But can they grant wishes

[rancid nymph]

At least you’re not calling Raikou Suicune and Entei “the legendary dogs” 🤮

[inland jewel]

just be aware that there is talks about the Hoenn mon being Randomizer only

outside of them being transfered

[thin pawn]

ruh roh

[chrome heron]

Legendary birds, legendary dogs, legendary bots...

[silk cobalt]

Legendary Sandwich Eaters...

[rancid nymph]

You mean Yaba daba doo lizard and Miradon?

[junior tiger]

It's basically the same thing though, Djinn are basically manifestations of forces of nature

[thin pawn]

"legendary beasts" do you have any idea of how little that narrows it down

just call them dogs

[junior tiger]

Except that they're all obviously based on big cats?

[thin pawn]

doesnt entei have big floppy ears

[rancid nymph]

Sure, as long as you call Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres “the legendary rats”

[chrome heron]

Legendary rats, legendary dogs, legendary statues...

[thin pawn]

Don't tell me you call them legendary cats

[rancid nymph]

There are zero ears in that picture

[thin pawn]

articuno zapdos and moltres? beasts

miraidon and koraidon? beasts

groudon? kyogre? you guessed it

both beasts

[chrome heron]

Oooh. Legendary pocket monsters.

[thin pawn]

oops all beasts

https://www.tumblr.com/starzoomies/751242026351296512/playing-pokemon-sleep-and-made-a-horrible

[rancid nymph]

No, I call them the legendary beasts, because

1. There not very obviously cats (except for Raikou) and
2. When I hear “cats” I think of house cats, and the beasts are based on big predatory cats

[junior tiger]

They're all monsters but not all Pokémon are beasts

[thin pawn]

You know what else is big and predatory on four legs? A dog

Case closed

[rancid nymph]

Sharks are big and predatory, so why aren’t you calling them “the legendary sharks”?

[junior tiger]

The largest species of canine would look small next to the largest species of feline

[rancid nymph]

Also, dogs are omnivores

[thin pawn]

Sharks aren't legendary, the legendary dogs are

If you can find me a fire breathing shark it's definitely legendary

[rancid nymph]

Dogs aren’t legendary either

[thin pawn]

I mean we're not talking about any dog we're talking about them dawgs

https://tenor.com/view/suicune-entei-raikou-pokemon-legendary-beasts-gif-8339516912606584538

[junior tiger]

They. 👏 Are. 👏 Not. 👏 Dogs. 👏
They. Are. Cats!

[rancid nymph]

We’re not taking about any dogs. We’re taking about Raikou, Entei and Suicune.

[thin pawn]

nuh uh

[junior tiger]

Ok conversation over this is pointless 🙄

[thin pawn]

Exactly

anyway what were we talking about again

Oh right the genies

Dont like em

[junior tiger]

About the genie trio mentioned earlier, why are they the most hated? I know Enamorus was pretty bad but why the other three?

[thin pawn]

Their incarnate forms are just straight up guys

And their therius forms or whatever are ugly

and lame

Only tornadus is kinda cool and he has a shiny bellybutton that looks dumb

[rancid nymph]

People don’t like that they look almost identical and that they’re human like

[junior tiger]

I actually think their designs are interesting. They do look similar but if that's an issue, why are Plusle and Minun so popular?

[thin pawn]

plusle and minun are also lame

[rancid nymph]

Plusle and Minun are popular?

[junior tiger]

And like ALL of the early bird Pokémon?

[thin pawn]

The early bird pokemon don't look that similar

[rancid nymph]

Early bird Pokémon are different enough from each other

[junior tiger]

Honestly it seems like a case of people just hating whatever for any reason, I only dislike the Incarnate Form of Enamorus

[thin pawn]

Enamorus is disgusting and I'm glad its canonically extinct

[junior tiger]

No accounting for taste

[thin pawn]

Also I don't like how genies are version exclusive and you had to have the other one to get all three

That was cringe

[rancid nymph]

Example: people hating Emboar cause it’s the third fire/fighting starter, but are fine with Superior and Samurott even though they have the same issue (only difference is that they’re not 3 in a row)

And no one talks about how Rillaboom and Inteleon are the 4th pure grass and pure water type starter respectively

[thin pawn]

The gen 5 and gen 8 starters are both bad

[junior tiger]

Emboar was terrible because its stats were atrocious, its design is horrifying, and the power balance of the starters that Gen were laughable. Legitimate reasons to dislike it are fine, but they need to be legitimate.

[prime dust]

i used emboar in gen 5, thing hell carried me

set it up to cover all but 1 of its weaknesses

flame charge
arm thrust
scald
thunder punch

[thin pawn]

You're not gonna believe me when I say this but

the games werent very hard

And every kid gets carried by their starter

[junior tiger]

I mean 6 year old me won everything with a Blastoise all the way back in Gen 1 so, it's not really a high goalpost for that

||Dropping this here before I bounce||

https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Legendary_beasts

Bullet three in the Trivia section:
Many refer to them as Legendary cats or Legendary dogs, depending on if they personally see feline or canine features in the individual Pokémon. However, they are more likely based on many different creatures and mythological deities, such as Raijū, the Chinese guardian lions, and the qilin. On top of that, they also seem to have been stylized to fit the classic idea of three jungle cats or jungle beasts—the tiger, lion, and cheetah (or leopard). They may also be based on the Three Celestial Guardians used in feng shui: the Pi Yao, Chi Lin, and Fu Dog.

[rain locust]

Dog 🐶

[fast quiver]

would kinda hope that the hoenn game has mega evos

not sure how that would work, i guess you could have a separate sprite for the mega evolved fused pokemon

[full bison]

Pretty sure Mega Evolution is firmly in the "never gonna happen" category

[fast quiver]

oh

fair it would be insanely busted

mega heracross slaking fusion is sweeping the game

[sturdy frost]

not only would it be busted stat/ability wise (not any more than stuff we already have)

any single mega would require 1000+ extra sprites. most of which hold next to no extra design features.

[full bison]

Also there's a ton of sprites that reference Mega Evolution designs, so those would need to be sifted through.

[fast quiver]

yeah

[quaint matrix]

Also also the mechanism and the way PIF development is there's just gonna be way too many overhead to consider

[fast quiver]

could Z moves work?

[quaint matrix]

As cool as having Aerilate can be why are you gating that ability GameFreak whyyyyyy

[full bison]

Z moves could probably work, but also not a lot of people care enough about them.

We have the elemental gems anyway, and those are basically Z moves

[fast quiver]

yeah

Z moves were a pretty mid gimmick ngl

yeah theres not really any gimmicks worth adding

tera types maybe

[prime dust]

the closest thing we have to a z move is for necrozma only

[full bison]

Don't get people here started on Tera lol

[prime dust]

and that is to just trigger the shift into ultra necrozma

[prime dust]

no other gimmick will likely get added unless a pokemon requires it

[full bison]

People have typed whole paragraphs on exactly how they feel about Tera

Spoiler alert: it's rarely positive

[prime dust]

the main gimmick of this game is fusing pokemon, it would be a bit odd to add another ontop of that

[fast quiver]

i think it was cool for a non fusion game
allows for more strategy

but here its kinda meh, since fusion kinda already does that

[elder jetty]

I suppose you could make megas. Maybe a splicer that can fuse megastones, then be used for fusions. E.g. Garchop stone + Gardevoir stone = Fusion Mega stone.

[quaint matrix]

Mega honestly is like what people want but the overhead + a lot of the mechanical overhauls is really the big limiter here

[wraith hinge]

I'll just wait for Z-A for my mega fill

[viscid fossil]

I'd just have one universal "mega stone" item
What's the point of progression locking specific megas

[coarse karma]

@exotic surge Thought it was strange you were randomly sending a friend request but haven't previously spoke in the server so pinging you here. Hope that's ok. I've been getting a lot of discord spam lately so I prefer to meet in server. What's your favorite gen 3 Pokemon? :)

https://tenor.com/view/spheal-pokemon-speech-bubble-spin-spinning-gif-25841638

I like Spheal and Flygon :3

https://tenor.com/view/fancy-flygon-top-hat-bowtie-cane-gif-16358702158262780823

So glad the full gen 3 roster's here now :D

[prime dust]

well not now but

Soon™️

[coarse karma]

Ture true. Just overly excited about the future update

[thin pawn]

Honestly most of them are pretty lame

I'm happy Tropius is getting added though

[full bison]

Honestly I thought Chimecho was mid, but I'm impressed by how people are working with it so far. The Miko theme is really inspired.

Aside from that, I'm probably most happy with the additions of Masquerain, Claydol, and Shiftry

[winter raven]

both

[coarse karma]

"Statues" I immediately thought of dormant Kyogre and Groudon lol.

[broken heart]

Heh

I'm hoping that we get primal reversions for those two or something else to rival the triple bird fusion fight

[full bison]

It's pretty common consensus that the answer to the Zapmolcuno fight will be a triple fusion of Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza

It just makes sense

[fiery barn]

what do yall think the postgame will be like

[full bison]

I hope to Arceus it's the Battle Frontier

Access to competitively competent Pokemon has been made easier than ever before, but Gamefreak has adamantly refused to give us the Battle Frontier back. All because they have a boomer mentality of "kids these days and their dang cellular devices."

[weak trellis]

"these development resources will be sent into making sure GO launches as big as we hope" (it did)

[trail hull]

and that's why they are making pokemon champions

[full bison]

Surprised Gamefreak has left Showdown alive when Champions is on the horizon

[prime dust]

GameFreak isn't the ones that would take it down

it would be Nintendo and/or The Pokemon Company

GameFreak doesn't seem to mind fan made stuff as they understand it brings people into the franchise when otherwise they might not

just don't break the unofficial rules and you are guchi

1. Don't get money involved
2. Don't make the franchise look bad

[inland jewel]

it is said that the reason why they haven't targeted showdown yet is because they can't cease and desist something they haven't made yet

[trail hull]

Oh so showdowns is gone in a matter of months

[inland jewel]

very likely chance

but here is hoping

though Nintendo is sort of winning the palworld lawsuit so they they be thinking they're on top of the world

[prime dust]

depends on how champions functions

showdown has some unique stuff so it might be able to squeeze by [especially if it is hosted in a country that gives 0 fucks]

[tawny fox]

For a game with over 200k mons, there is not even one pure flying type

[clear lichen]

We need to add Tornadus fr

[tawny fox]

and that would still only be two pure flying types lol

why have they never made a flying eeveelution

[full bison]

Cause fanart

That's literally the explanation we got

[tawny fox]

huh???

[full bison]

According to the Teraleak, there was a Flying Eeveelution that made it to the planning stage, but it was rejected for looking too much like a piece of fanart that existed

[trail hull]

And it was for gen 7

[tawny fox]

First thing I do when Tornadus gets added is making a flying eeveelution sprite for the double fusion

[trail hull]

When it gets added it’s mean more monotype for team monotype

[tawny fox]

there arent any other pure flying tho

[trail hull]

Yes but it adds a few mono flying evolutions

[tawny fox]

such as?

[trail hull]

I meant fusions lol

[tawny fox]

yea

such as what

[trail hull]

I’m trying to search for one but basically primary flying + tornadus will make a mono type

[tawny fox]

thats the problem

finally

[prime dust]

there are no primary flying type mons though

[tawny fox]

nah

I found it

Noibat and Noivern

the only two base mons

[prime dust]

wow, all 2 of them

[trail hull]

So 3 pure flying fusion in total

[prime dust]

2 technically since it would be dumb to have a noibat

[rain locust]

simply use the corviknight line

[tawny fox]

not gonna be added, ever

[trail hull]

A mono type is still a mono type

[rain locust]

I disagree.

[tawny fox]

why

[rain locust]

Bc Im Goated.

[trail hull]

The dev said it’s off the table for now

[tawny fox]

huh

[clear lichen]

If Torn-T gets added that's uhh

Idk

Depends on if you're playing competitive or not

[prime dust]

flying

it is pure flying as well

[clear lichen]

Because if you are then you're about to get species claused

[prime dust]

and it will

any future mons that have forms will get them

welcome to why castform has 4 dex slots

[clear lichen]

But if you're bringing Noibat to competitive you're kinda already cooked anyways

Torn-T's a very good Pokemon it's not the worst thing you can be stuck with for mono flying

Unless you hate its design

Then uhh

[trail hull]

Guys we forgot about the normal flying rule

They always give flying

So actually there are more monotype