pif-hoenn-discussion

[glossy osprey]

Maractus would make some great head fusions ngl

[spare frost]

Hmm, what's the deal with the legendary/mythical Pokemon were on the poll initially? It looks like only the Regis and Necrozma made the cut, but. That doesn't seem right. And also there's a message about not rushing them pinned.

(I'm basically only asking for Keldeo. Maybe Manaphy.)

[mystic rivet]

not really any "deal" the others just didn't get enough votes. meloetta only got in because of the contest winners raffle

[spare frost]

As in. That message beneath the results seems to suggest that there was more to it than them just being flat losers. It looks more like they were axed from the running for reasons outside of their votes.

[glossy osprey]

They might add more when they update their technology or something

[mystic rivet]

that was specifically for the spriter's vote at the end. bigger legendaries would likely require a lot more work to put in with appropriate events than meloetta, that they wouldn't want to rush just to get in relatively close to the bulk of the new pokemon.

i'm sure other legendaries were maybe valid, but the contest winners just didn't pick them for their entry into the raffle

[spare frost]

Ugh, well that's lame. Seems ridiculous that the legendaries that people are most passionate about are the Regis and that ugly thing from USUM.

[hollow quest]

well that is your opinion unfortunately, and yours is not superior to others

[spare frost]

Not to suggest it is of course. I just don't get it is all.

[hollow quest]

necrozma has a lot of merit in fairness, considering it had canonical fusions. it was one a lot of people expected in IF for a while

i don't really care for the regis personally but it was very weird to have regigigas and not the original three, and that pushed more people to want them added

[spare frost]

Doesn't the fact that it has fusion as a part of it's mainline game gimmick, in a way that has nothing to do with this game's system, sort of undermine that? I'd say the same about the things from B&W.

[hollow quest]

well considering this game is at least partially based off the gimmick of black/white kyurem and the dna splicers from gen 5, i'd say it has a lot to do with it

i'd even argue it gives spriters more material to work with, as we've gotten examples straight from the games

[spare frost]

Okay fine the B&W things get a pass, in my defense I just forgot about it because I do not care about that aspect of the plot of those games. But yeah the USUM thing is different, and so creates a bit of friction, no?

Not that it strictly matters because they're gonna do what they want, but. I'm just saying I'm not sure it makes them a shoe-in, just because they "fuse" as well.

[hollow quest]

it's the same general concept so i don't get your point really, USUM has two items to fuse necrozma and the box legendaries together, which can then be used to unfuse. it's almost the same concept, the only arguable difference bein the bonus of ultra necrozma

[spare frost]

It's the same structurally, but in the narrative they are distinct. It's not like, for example the whole thing with the Link Cable in ORAS, appropriating something old as a foundation for something new, in the case of B&W having legendary fusions and USUM also having it, it's just the same thing but again. It's not propped up by B&W's thing, it's distinct from it.

[hidden relic]

People like golems

[hollow quest]

i suppose they are distinct in a way, but i don't find that important when we're not discussing the original games, PIF is its own thing and arguably creates its own narrative/lore with these mons

[spare frost]

I like Golems! But the Regis just don't excite me as Golems. Don't know why. Maybe I've seen 'em too many times, and they're always a chore to catch n' all.

[glossy osprey]

Regitube

[hollow quest]

water type regi

[hidden relic]

I can understand that, yeagh

I still am fighting with my life for Meltan

[glossy osprey]

Finally some meltan representation

[hidden relic]

I am the meltan guy

[spare frost]

Oh yeah it's created it's own lore and rules and so on, but the original games' context is the fulcrum from which this game swings. They could make the USUM things integrated with the B&W things, but that'd be their thing and not something propped up by the original games, so it doesn't convince me that Necrozma is a slam dunk of an inclusion. If that makes sense.

[hollow quest]

i mean you can criticize its inclusion all you want, but a bulk of the community wanted it in, if for nothin else but a new legendary or canon fusion material. i'd say that makes it a good addition

[spare frost]

Obviously that whole point is not as important to me as the fact that I just don't like how Necrozma looks and I thought USUM was lame and would like to forget about it.

[hollow quest]

i personally thought it was a great time but to each their own

[spare frost]

I was less harsh towards the regular Sun and Moon I think. It bugged me how much they were just, the same game... Again.

[hollow quest]

the only 3D game i thought was better was PLA

[hidden relic]

Necrozma was super popular in the vote, like one of the highests (I think it was the highest actually)

[spare frost]

Meh. I'm not gonna say people are wrong to like it of course, but for me there's no accounting for taste.

[hidden relic]

And that's reasonably from what it can do in fusion design different from other Pokemon

You've got 2 different angles to take Necrozma head, either stylize it after base Necrozma all prism-like, orrrrrr... take the canon fusion route ala N-Sol/Lunalizer

[spare frost]

I guess I understand it more from an art perspective.

[hidden relic]

Yeah, that's what a lot of the vote stuff are

[hollow quest]

this community values looks over stats and usability ultimately, so it's actually more important to look at them artistically

[sand mica]

What about Aromatisse?

[hollow quest]

now of course, plenty of people also look at mons for their viability, but the majority is more focused on how they will work visually

[hidden relic]

The true viability aspect is still fairly new, thanks to the Showdown

[hollow quest]

yeah, and showdown itself is...i don't wanna say niche per say, but it is not like everyone's doin it either

[hidden relic]

Yeah, we're working on making it more known still

The way it was announced kinda....was shadowed over quickly 😅

[white meadow]

Melmetal

[hidden relic]

See, this guy gets it

[hollow quest]

isn't melmetal not even in this version of essentials, or did i mishear

[spare frost]

Oh of course. But there's also the relevance within the series as a factor. Mewtwo or whoever was always gonna be here.

[hidden relic]

It's in this one

It just.....bombed in the votes, that's all 🫠

[hollow quest]

melmetal is weird because it's not directly tied to a main game, it is technically gen 7 but it was more a GO thing from what i know

[glossy osprey]

How did the ubs do in the votes?

[hidden relic]

uhhhhh, I don't know

I never got the full vote thing, only bits and pieces.

[hollow quest]

UBs had a spread i imagine, but i imagine they were higher up overall, many people like them

[spare frost]

There are no depths to how much I don't care about Melmetal, even though I somewhat like that initial form design.

[hidden relic]

UBs were one of those things where if they were added, only 1 or 2 would feel weird

[spare frost]

That's part of it for me, it's just kinda. "Where do they fit in?"

[hidden relic]

NOOOOOOOOO

[hollow quest]

well that was the whole argument against xurkitree in the raffle, people just wanted them all in

i personally think it needs to come with its bros

[spare frost]

The Ultra Beasts in general are problematic for this. It feels weird to include just a smattering of them. Seems like it ought to be all or none. Even though some are objectively more appealing than others.

[hidden relic]

BTS we were silently hoping for a Popplio win, not because we wanted it

But rather it being really funny to not have the rest of the starters

[hollow quest]

and this is why i always advocate for a special UB event for their additions, like where they suddenly invade the region and you can find them all across the regions

with bonus inclusion of the gen 7 box art legendaries and cosmog/cosmoem

[spare frost]

It feels mean, but with how restrictive sprite limits are, I genuinely feel like Cosmoem would be a waste of space.

[hollow quest]

nah i get that, i think most just wanted lunala and solgaleo but it'd still feel weird to leave out the little guys

https://tenor.com/view/cosmog-pokemon-sun-and-moon-pokemon-legendary-pokemon-alola-gif-25689672

[hidden relic]

Nah keep them outta here

[spare frost]

I'm sure people want that thing more than the actual box legendaries.
Nubbin or whatever their name was.

[hidden relic]

Well, maybe now that the vote is over and we don't gotta think in the context of "How many slots"

[hollow quest]

cosmoem could have some viability in weight-based sets in fusions, that's the main alley i can see for it, but as mentioned earlier, it's more valuable to look at them visually

[hidden relic]

The texturing on Cosmoem fusions would just be beautiful

But if I wanted to work with gold that much....I think I know who I'd choose

((Yes I know his head is not gold, I'm referring to gold as in colour here))

[hollow quest]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-xurkitree-shining-dancing-gif-7238253

[spare frost]

This thing?
https://scarletviolet.pokemon.com/_images/pokemon/gholdengo/pokemon-gholdengo.png

[hidden relic]

Nope, that's Gen 9. Can't even be in IF

[spare frost]

I know, I was joking.

[hidden relic]

Even so...eech the potential for fusions in that line go to Gimmighoul (Chest) not this cheese stick

[finite thistle]

Goldengo is just a really silly looking design, even worse than something like Gumshoos

[spare frost]

Yeah even I know that, that's why they were the more comedic offering of the two.

[hollow quest]

its evo method is tedious as fuck also

[lime nimbus]

the second this thing is added is the moment showdown goes up in flames

I mean I can take a galvantula and slap it on something with SR

[finite thistle]

Cannot believe it's still legal after all this time.

[lime nimbus]

sticky web and rocks. that's fun and fair

[hollow quest]

i think it's just stinky

[lime nimbus]

like what you gotta do? sylveon pixilate rapid spin?

[hollow quest]

i do not vibe with the cool cheese stick

[spare frost]

So who didn't make the cut, as it stands? Is there a formalised list of the ones who didn't get added like there is for the winners?

[hidden relic]

There was....a lot that didn't make the cut

[hollow quest]

i think that's just...looking at what didn't win

[spare frost]

I could extrapolate from the two lists, but. I don't want to do that myself.

[lime nimbus]

ditto

[hollow quest]

like there's around 300 mons not in yet

[hidden relic]

Kommo-o was really close, but got denied since by that point: Too many new dragons

[hollow quest]

lurantis did surprisingly well in the spriters' poll, gave me more faith in them

[spare frost]

Oh no, Lurantis didn't get in? Lame.

Do like them, even though not very good.

[hollow quest]

that last part is half jokin to clarify, i'm glad we have many people workin on this stuff

[hollow quest]

the main pros to lurantis are giving pants to other mons and having a good contrary attacker

[finite thistle]

Not a big fan of the Pokemon, but I still think it makes for great fusion materials

[spare frost]

That's what I was thinking, they're another one of those Pokemon that could shine in this game moreso than ones that are just. Good/cool already.

[hollow quest]

the only other good contrary users are serperior (which won't get in for a bit) and malamar (i have no idea on it)

[finite thistle]

The pants look terrible on Lurantis, but I could see them working on other mons

[hollow quest]

i'll pretend i didn't read that

i will clarify that lurantis is my favorite mon, so i have extreme bias towards it, but even then i look at it logically

[spare frost]

I wasn't even worried about Lurantis, I thought they'd get in for sure.

[hollow quest]

in the spriters' poll, it was third place, behind the winner (lycanroc) and second place (golisopod)

[spare frost]

Eh. Lycanroc's nice, don't care about Golisopod.

[hidden relic]

Ooh, speaking of Lycan another fun fact

Before Lycanroc won the Spriter's Choice, it was on the raffle twice like Archeops

[hollow quest]

and archeops still lost

but the general idea i have is that the mons that ranked overall higher (outside of legendaries/starters) will be higher priority in future updates. if not, i think that's a silly thing not to consider

[spare frost]

Archeops suffers from not being as good as Archen.

Surprised Mudsdale didn't get in.

[hushed mantle]

I mean it’s a horse, and that’s it

[spare frost]

I'd say it's at least a cool Horse.
But even if you reduce it to that, that's not a compelling negative in a Pokemon game.

Sharpedo is "just" a Shark and that's it etc.

[stuck bane]

eh, can't think of any potential, it's another fairy type at least. kinda dislike it similar to how I felt about slurpuff but if it's secretly the most S tier pick of all time by all means convince me. in fact since counterparts are apparently such a big deal and people don't want certain mons in without their counterparts I guess thats a few points knocked off for slurpuff too

[spare frost]

Oookay. It looks like these are all the ones that didn't make the cut after the initial poll, excluding starters, legendaries, and freaks UBs and the like.

[finite thistle]

So many Pokemon I want in

[stuck bane]

same, in fact lemme count the unovas

[pale flame]

Amalgam Better

[stuck bane]

still 94 mons from unova missing, its unover, at least thats what I would've said had we not gotten melo (edit: and this was excluding starters and legends )

[molten comet]

What is the most recent line of pokemon sprites? trying to see if it has auto-downloaded, (on vs 6.2, but downloaded the Sept 2023 zip of them. Bewear combos, maranies, and a hitmochan/ cacnea?

[finite thistle]

Wishiwashi, Chatot, Lurantis, Salazzle, Lumineon, Minior, Komala, Drampa Wormadam, Vespaqueen, Gumshoos, Floatzal, Diggersby, Furfrou, Slurpuff, Malamar, Dedenne, Gourgeist, Hariyama, Leipard and Togedemaru

[stuck bane]

its the end of the month, so another day or so until the... october? pack comes along

[finite thistle]

Can't believe Lumineon was even considered, thought a mon like that had no chance

[molten comet]

But if I have download sprites turned on, it will import them as need be right?

[finite needle]

You want Gumshoos?!

[finite thistle]

The Trump hairdoo will never stop giving me giggles

[stuck bane]

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little attached to yungoos after it was a champ in a nuzlocke I did, but yeah it really has nothing going for it

[finite thistle]

Stakeout is also a really cool ability

[molten comet]

#downloads message oh

I'm blind

[finite needle]

Honestly I don’t agree with most of your picks (besides Minior, Salazzle, Slurpuff, and Gourgeist) but everyone has different tastes

[spare frost]

These are my opinions. Subject to change/revision.

[stuck bane]

eh, don't agree with araquanid and seismitoad, but you did put 3 unova mons in s-tier and gave leavanny a chance despite it being similar to lurantis for more slots, good list

[finite needle]

Where can I find that tier list?

[stuck bane]

pinned messages

[spare frost]

They're just not my thing. Find they look creepy without that being the intent of the design.

[stuck bane]

fair, but fusion potential on both is still high, water bubble could also go crazy

[spare frost]

I guess "Glad they didn't make the cut" is more "I would never personally use them/I have some specific beef with them".

(Chatot is the main one I have some specific beef with.)

[stuck bane]

really? like I know some people here have been annoying about chatot but I don't like hate the guy, especially after PMD

[spare frost]

I specifically hate them because of Explorers of Sky.

[pale flame]

based

[spare frost]

Ugh, yeah. Never liked 'em. They only exist because of the gimmick of that generation.

[finite thistle]

Of course I forgot about Golisopod and Araquanid. Those 2 are cool

[pale flame]

yeah and they aren't even good

[spare frost]

Yeah just knocking it out of the park on all fronts. They don't look cool, they aren't useful, they're tied to a gimmick GameFreak abandoned, it's just...

[stuck bane]

I still stand by the fact that whenever your system said april 1st, the monkeys being forced as your starters would be the funniest thing ever, but that's mostly just the unova fan in me talking, simipour has surprisingly been good in some BW monotype runs, but yeah honestly whole line has nothing going for them

[finite thistle]

I like the monkeys as a way to facilitate an equally hard gym no matter what the starter, but they really are pretty rough, especially Pansear, who gets barely any moves

[pale flame]

OAKWOOD TROLLED ME HARD WITH THAT TBH

LIKE I DEADASS BELIEVED HIM

[pale flame]

Bro the first gym in BW is easy I'm ngl

[spare frost]

I guess my problem with Golisopod is more that they're Guzma's signature Pokemon, and I dislike Guzma for being in a game I dislike, and also just being an annoying twerp in his own right.

[stuck bane]

idk who oakwood is but cool

[stuck bane]

oh was that a suggestion he already made? I just thought of it myself a while back but if he said it first all power to him

[pale flame]

No he was trolling me hard

[stuck bane]

I see

[finite thistle]

I'm personally a big fan of Sun and Moon and especially Lilie and Guzma. Easily some of my favorite characters from the series

[fair jewel]

i resent USUM for removing/changing the story

[spare frost]

Lilie is pleasant enough, Guzma is insufferable to me.

[thorny ferry]

one day...

[spare frost]

I'm the opposite, I resent it for not changing enough. Felt like a madlibs version of the original game with Necrozma stapled on-top.

[spare frost]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-it-sponge-bob-gif-5332916

[thorny ferry]

there's still hope

[hollow quest]

don't diss our boy guzma

[finite thistle]

USUM is easily the biggest reason why I can't put gen 7 any higher than my 4th favorite. It is so incredibly frustrating how badly they butchered Lillie's character Arc. A choice I mostly blame on ORAS' Delta episode and its parallel universe shenanigans

[spare frost]

He's not my boy, but he's certainly a boy. Little boy.

[hollow quest]

i have a different take as i started on USUM, i know the story is better in the originals, but like everything else was better in USUM

[spare frost]

Oh uh I forgot Avalugg in my rankings. Kinda speaks for itself, no strong opinion.

[thorny ferry]

why😿

[spare frost]

Because I find them visually unappealing, have no personal attachment to them that bypasses aesthetic merit, and I don't think they would add much value to this game apart from either of those factors.

[pale flame]

bruxish doesn't deserve rights.

[thorny ferry]

fair

[hollow quest]

little boy huh? what, are you lusamine's age?

[finite thistle]

I don't hate that many Pokemon and Infinite Fusion actually makes that list shorter since you can simply fuse the retreads with their originals

[pale flame]

how tall is he

[finite needle]

Here’s my list (nothing is in order) also Blacephalon is only there due to fusion potential

[pale flame]

Oh he's 6' according to the first result on google

[spare frost]

Not so much a description of age or literal size, more implicit of character. He acts like a big man, swinging his weight around, it's lowkey pathetic.

[pale flame]

He is shorter than me, therefore he is a little boy

[hollow quest]

still a better and more reasonable character than most the villain leaders

[fair jewel]

They really did butcher it... like Lillie was one of my favourite NPCs in the Pokemon series too (which granted it's not a very high bar to begin with because... Pokemon), and then they also removed Lusamine as a final boss and idk if they even addressed her motivations in USUM. After everything she did, she's forgiven cuz she suddenly changed her mind or something

[spare frost]

That is somewhat true, though that's more an inditement of those characters than it is praise for Guzma.

[thorny ferry]

does this convince you in any way?

[pale flame]

Other than Stakataka? No.

[finite thistle]

@spare frost I will say your choice in profile pic is impeccable

[pale flame]

It's just teeth.

[spare frost]

Thanks!

[fair jewel]

A Nihilego controlled Lusamine is far more interesting than fckin Necrozma
it gives a sense of dread that Ultra Beasts are far more dangerous than they seem

[pale flame]

I don't evem know what this is

[finite thistle]

Night in the woods is my second favorite game

[thorny ferry]

lmao

[spare frost]

It sure is!
...
And then you don't even get to battle it. She's just a trainer, it changed nothing.

[pale flame]

bruxish gives me major "I'm not like other girls" vibes, except she's not like other girls, she's worse.

[thorny ferry]

it was a double brux iirc

[spare frost]

Don't get me wrong, I like the Lusamine whatever better than Necrozma by a country mile, but it wasn't as good as it could have been.

[fair jewel]

That's a gripe i had in the original SM yeah. I would've liked to fight a super boss Lusamine/Nihilego hybrid, and USUM could've fixed it, but they removed it altogether

[hollow quest]

my problem with most the villain teams is what when they get this extreme in their ideals, it feels less like a villain team and more like an evil cult, which can be a good thing when done right, but in pokemon i prefer villain teams that actually feel like villain teams, even team skull's goofy nature felt far more reasonable than anything from gen 3-6 imo

[pale flame]

we could've used more ultrabeasts

We got two bug fighting ones... And only two that evolved.

[spare frost]

Speaking of Nihilego, I added a special tier for the exempt Pokemon. Literally put all the other UBs in the bin as far as I'm concerned. Other legendaries/mythics would be cool though.

[finite needle]

Dang I just got completely ignored

[fair jewel]

Hmm, i think gen 3's were fine. They were just environmental extremists, and we do have those in the real world
Gen 5's were good imo. Like their motivations were what we all at some point considered since Pokemon battles are essentially dog fights

[pale flame]

Xurkitree has good potential, the wire body has somewhat similar potential to Electivire, but more bendy and free. Less bulky.

[finite thistle]

I've always been a big fan of Kartana and Guzzlord is one of those Pokemon I'd enjoy fixing up

[hollow quest]

gen 3 is the least offensive, i actually sort of like them. although, they got more extreme in the remakes i think

[pale flame]

yeah fair

[spare frost]

There's a lot being discussed, and also you included the exempt Pokemon which adds a bit more to digest. Will probably get examined in a bit.

[finite needle]

Oops sorry for including the exempted ones

[spare frost]

I don't hate Xurkitree, but I also just. Don't really think anything of them.

[pale flame]

that's fair.

[fair jewel]

Gen 4 is ridiculous, they just want to blow up the world or something, why would any1 wanna work for Cyrus i'll never know
Gen 6 is even more ridiculous. The boss whose name i can't be bothered to remember's motivations was to make the world beautiful... and to do that they needed legendary pokemon... for reasons... I don't understand why any1 would join their organization

[spare frost]

The lack of a face doesn't help. They don't have much direct character or personality.

[hollow quest]

i think they're fuckin incredible. like hell yeah, W I R E T R E E that dances and runs goofily

[pale flame]

in my game, I'm having one villain team be extreme environmentalists who will get violent, they're like the hateable loud minority, and the other one is a secret division of a giant construction corporation. It's kinda easy to see why they're fighitng

[hollow quest]

neither does nihilego though? far as i can tell anyway, you seem to like them more

[finite needle]

Circuitry=Xurkitree

[finite thistle]

Eh, I like the scene in Platinum where he makes a big speech to all his grunts, but I do admit that most of what I like about Cyrus is from the Manga.

[pale flame]

gen 6 is just "elitist jackass who objectifies people"

[hollow quest]

https://tenor.com/view/xurkitree-gif-9674416

[spare frost]

No, true, but their design appeals to me more. They're like a ghost, presence defined by absence.

[pale flame]

There are trillions of these in my head...

[white meadow]

Eeveelution triple fusion

[hollow quest]

i think how xurkitree moves tells a lot about it, it's energetic and goofy, but still extremely powerful

[spare frost]

Have this really interesting video analyzing the "evil teams" of Pokemon. This channel has quite a few interesting videos.
https://youtu.be/t0fk46Hce1o?t=181

[fair jewel]

Other than gen 4 and 6, every other "evil" organization makes sense in some way or another

[pale flame]

Rainbow Rocket is pretty fucking wild

[hollow quest]

4 and 6 are the worst in that regard, but in terms of just bein dogshit teams, that's a different story. i don't actually find star to be bad, i just don't see them as much of an evil team either. team yell was dogshite though

[pale flame]

OH ALSO

[fair jewel]

Never played gen 9, so i won't comment on them

[pale flame]

TEAM YELL IS ASS. IT IS NOT EVEN A VILLAIN TEAM. THEY ARE JUST ANNOYING FANBOYS.

[spare frost]

You also watch that video, if you want.

[finite thistle]

I like the idea of Cyrus being frustrated with emotions clouding logical debate, which is something that has always bothered me

[hollow quest]

maybe later

[pale flame]

Team Star is like Team Yell but less annoying, because you interact with them less.

The leaders have nice designs and personalities though.

[finite needle]

At least Team Star has somewhat of an ark that they go through

[pale flame]

For a Pokemon game.

[hollow quest]

team star actually has some decent ideas put behind it, unlike yell. don't lump them together lol

[fair jewel]

Team Yell in general is a team of simps. As ridiculous as it sounds... IRL examples are plenty...

[white meadow]

Team skull>>

[pale flame]

team star is ok but the plot was super predictable

[hollow quest]

like star is maybe a C but yell is F

[white meadow]

Doesn't team star exist cuz they got bullied?

[finite thistle]

I like Team Star because intimidating their bullies out of the school is something I'd love to do in my youth

[hollow quest]

rocket is still the goat though, although admittedly rainbow rocket was a little weird

[pale flame]

yes.

[spare frost]

I have no interest at all in Scarlet & Violet, but the way it hinges it's story around making victims of bullying the central villains is. Strange.

[pale flame]

it tries to juggle 3 stories

[hollow quest]

i think it's poking fun at the victims fighting back then gettin punished instead, which does sadly happen

[white meadow]

It's just interdimensional team rocket and haven't been expanded on

[hollow quest]

yeah but that whole segment was weird and tedious, but it was cool to see all the villains and fight them

[spare frost]

It almost comes across like "both sidesing" the point, which is pretty off-putting.

[hollow quest]

i dunno, i just appreciate that they tried somethin new with it

and for what it's worth, i enjoyed the arcs of S/V despite their flaws. i do hope indigo disk answers more questions though

[finite thistle]

Yeah, with the way the game performs I personally couldn't justify throwing additional money at it, but I still enjoyed it quite a bit. Enough to put it midway up my Generational rankings.

Gonna get a friend of mine to trade me whatever evolves Duraludon so I can use it in a mono-steel run

[spare frost]

I meant to prompt you to also watch that video if you want, my mistake!

[hollow quest]

gen 9 is in the middle of the pack for me also

definitely not the worst but not the best either

[brisk vessel]

SV had a genuinely good story
But the preformance is just so 🥹

[hollow quest]

there are ways to help it out but yeahhhh

[spare frost]

For me it was a non-starter from the outset. I find the "Great Value BOTW" approach (huge mostly empty open world) to be antithetical to what I like about Pokemon worlds.

[hollow quest]

i liked bein able to do whatever i want in a big world a lot honestly

[finite thistle]

The emptiness of the world is definitely a problem, as is the lack of level scaling causing the game to be barely more flexible than gen 1

[hollow quest]

but considering how little time they have on these games i think it's the best they could manage lol

it's why i hope they're actually slowin down a bit

[spare frost]

I would say the list of things you can pick from when doing "whatever you want" in an open world of that style vs. a tighter, more considered world is about the same, if not skewed in favour of the latter.

[hollow quest]

some stuff is pointing to that

[hollow quest]

you are not me, lol

[spare frost]

Astute observation, Poirot!

[hollow quest]

the games i have the most play time on are gen 8/9

i very much like bein more open with things, gen 8's dlc helped that a lot

[spare frost]

I personally think vast open worlds should be reserved for true RPGs.
(that is to say one with meaningful choice and means of expressing your character)

[finite thistle]

It's gen 1 for me by far, the amount of Pokemon you can get before the 4th gym makes teambuilding real fun. Plus, I enjoy gen 1's flavor of Jank a lot with how powerful it makes certain mons

[hollow quest]

gen 1 sucks but it's fun because of how broken it is. however, it's still the second worst, imo only bein beaten out by gen 2

gen 2 just felt like they took most the broken fun out of gen 1 then added new problems

i don't even like the gen 2 remakes all that much, though they were much better games

[finite thistle]

Honestly, I'd play the originals over either remake any day of the weak. Gen 3 mechanics really don't do many favors for most of gen 1's dex and not being able to evolve into newer Pokemon sucks so much

[hollow quest]

otherwise, the only other gen i found bad was 6, but it is held a bit higher with ORAS

[empty pendant]

oras singlehandedly makes gen 6 my third favorite

gen 3 > gen 9 > gen 6
I understand this is very controversial

[hollow quest]

i don't find gen 8 bad after the DLCs helped a lot of problems with sw/sh, and then it also had PLA, which alone made it a pretty good gen

[spare frost]

My favourite mainline game is still probably SoulSilver, I feel like that was the sweet spot of the franchise as a whole.

[hollow quest]

i guess i won't ever understand the HGSS fanboys, i really don't get the hype, but that's fine

[spare frost]

Following Pokemon probably adds a lot for a lot of people. Though I would say that's fairly easy to understand why even if it's not for you personally.

[maiden flume]

Man, none of Sharpedo's Fusions miss their mark, they're all so good

[finite thistle]

Sword and Shield are incredibly dull and while the Crown Tundra was an improvment, it and the Star Tournament were the only parts I enjoyed.

[stuck bane]

I started with HG, really good compared to most games but I’m not gonna pretend it’s the best, still probably in top 3, def in top 5

[maiden flume]

Same with all of Trevenant's Head Fusions

[hollow quest]

i mean that was admittedly a cool feature which should've stuck around, but the remakes failed at fixing a lot of the problems with the originals imo

[spare frost]

I may be biased since, well. That was the only version I ever played, so I didn't have anything to compare it to.

[maiden flume]

Let's Go had pretty good following mechanics

[stuck bane]

Idk how much more you could fix, it was their 2nd remake and how much can you change while still making sure it’s johto?

[spare frost]

Sure, kiiinda, but. Let's Go is definitely not for everyone.

[maiden flume]

Oh definitely, it's not for me

[hollow quest]

it didn't fix the level curve, it didn't fix the weird map layout, it didn't fix some of the pokemon availability, and it only partially improved kanto. i cannot in good faith call it a good remake when it falls under some of the same traps that BDSP did

[finite thistle]

Putting all the Johto Pokemon that were stuck in Kanto in Johto would be nice. They got most of them, but Houndour, Murkrow and Larvitar are still having no fun

[maiden flume]

Except the Johto remakes didn't take away from the experience at all

[spare frost]

As I say, can't really speak to most of those. I can see how they could weigh on someone's mind though.

[hollow quest]

HGSS is still obviously better than BDSP, but i cannot believe people place it on such a high pedestal. i have to assume there's a lot of nostalgia in it

[maiden flume]

Now ORAS, ORAS were truly great remakes(Minus the Battle Frontier tease and no Game Corner, BOOOOOOO GAMEFREAK!)

[stuck bane]

Ok that’s too far HGSS had changes at least, bdsp literally had broken code copied from dp

[hollow quest]

i did not say it was exactly like BDSP, i said some of its design choices were the same ones criticized in BDSP

[finite thistle]

I think the Lets Go formula has a lot of potential, but the Kanto dex really doesn't get much out of it with how powerful many of them were in gen 1. Gen 2 doesn't have this problem as those mechanics really don't prop up many Pokemon

[maiden flume]

While BDSP did expand the Grand Underground, they took away the most beloved feature of it

The base building customizability

[spare frost]

Sure there is a fair bit of nostalgia for me personally, but I don't think that's all it is. I do believe the regard I hold for it is legitimate, as entries into the franchise go.

[hollow quest]

the let's go games are interesting because they appeal to an even younger demographic, almost one where parents can reminisce on their past playing the originals while their kids play the modern versions

[finite thistle]

HGSS kept the Suicune additions in from Crystal, which was more than we got for Platinum in BDSP

[maiden flume]

And while I do appreciate the fact that you don't need HMs on your Mons in BDSP... That's where my compliments stop

[empty pendant]

hgss is regarded so fondly because it only improved things for people who already liked johto, and people who disliked johto probably didn't play it enough to form deep memories

[fair jewel]

I'm just waiting for a Let's Go Johto so i can see my nieces experience the wonder of revisiting the Kanto region after beating the E4
As a kid, that was such an amazing moment for me

[maiden flume]

Yeah, where as you look at ORAS and they actually did so much good, even changing the story a little

[hollow quest]

ORAS and FRLG are the best remakes in my eyes

[maiden flume]

They even kept O-Powers and the great training

[fair jewel]

ORAS gets huge demerits for me by introducing Primals

[finite thistle]

Or people who like gen 4. The interconnectivity and mechanics of gen 4 are some of my favorites and seeing them unencumbered in a new region is really fun

[maiden flume]

FRLG also only improved the experience, too

[spare frost]

Meh, it's just Mega Evolution but a little to the left.

[stuck bane]

Ok, maybe I should give the experience that 11 year old me had (heavy nostalgia glasses):

HG: “wow, not only my first game where I can walk around with my Pokémon IRL but I get to explore a whole nother region! This is the best game ever!”

(Squeeze sapphire and platinum in here, both awesome too)

BW: “wow, amazing story and expressive sprites! Nothing will top this!”

B2W2: Pokémon world tournament

[maiden flume]

Well, that's from a Comp viewpoint though, we're talking about playthroughs

[fair jewel]

Bleh..

[spare frost]

You can dislike Mega Evolution as a thing to exist in the series in general though, no? I don't mind it personally, but I see the argument against it.

[hollow quest]

FRLG fixed a lot more than HGSS did, and that's why i praise it more. bit unfair, considering gen 1 was way more broken than gen 2, but it means it feels like more of a proper remake, fixing a lot of issues and even adding new stuff

[fair jewel]

Was refering to a comp view though. Primal forms ruined the entire scene

[maiden flume]

We're not gonna argue about Mega Ray though, everyone agrees that was a mistake

[fair jewel]

Every team had to either have 1 or both, or surrender

[hollow quest]

what's competitive

[maiden flume]

Or you just have that 1 madlad that brings FEAR strats

[hollow quest]

i just wanna use funny primal dolphin whale thing

[spare frost]

Didn't you just respond to your own point though? As you say, it was much easier to make a meaningful improvement to Gen 1 than Gen 2 at the time of their respective attempts. Especially with the relative gap in technological improvement between them all.

[fair jewel]

i like to play anti-meta/gimmicky/meme teams... there's nothing to anti-meta the fckin primals

[finite thistle]

I like Mega Ray's ability because it fixes my personal biggest problem with the mon, but not needing to hold an item is incredibly stupid

[maiden flume]

FEAR

[hollow quest]

it would've been easy to change the level curves and pokemon distribution and more too, so why didn't they?

[maiden flume]

And that not needing to hold an item is exactly why it ruined comp

Along with it's insane stats

[spare frost]

If we start talking about things GameFreak could've easily done but didn't, we're gonna be here till next Christmas. Kinda gotta take what you can get to a certain degree.

[maiden flume]

At least Ultra Necrozma in USUM was easily predictable and needed a specific Z-Crystal to be used

[hollow quest]

and that's my whole viewpoint, i feel like HGSS should've had more changes than it did

[finite thistle]

Yeah, I've long since accepted that there's no such thing as a perfect gen, even my favorites have big flaws

[spare frost]

I think that's fine in principle, but it's weird to hold that against the game we got. It'd be swell if HG/SS also printed money out of the little GameBoy slot on the DS, but it doesn't.

[maiden flume]

Though... Complete Zygarde was more the issue in Gen 7, but at least it had easy counterplay

[hollow quest]

we are allowed to criticize games as we please, i don't find that weird

[maiden flume]

Gen 8 was definitely vastly improved by Arceus

[spare frost]

I'm not saying you can't, I just don't think the criticism offered holds much weight upon scrutiny. Though I do honestly get just, wishing for a different game than the one you got.

[stuck bane]

For many of us Gen 8 WAS PLA

[maiden flume]

Tbh, Arceus was as close to a perfect Pokemon game as we've got

[finite thistle]

Sword and Shield still mostly sucks though. Personally, one great game doesn't make up for 2 abysmal ones

[stuck bane]

As close as we’ve gotten so far it still has issues

[hollow quest]

of course, as much as I ended up enjoying sw/sh with its dlcs, PLA was just incredible, one of GF's best decisions

[maiden flume]

Yeah, I don't defend SwSh, only bring up Arceus

PLA hardcore carried the rest of Gen 8's lifespan

[hollow quest]

also it could be considered four abysmal ones, BDSP was still gen 8

[spare frost]

Bleh, sincere dislike for this stance. I can't stand the trend towards the empty open worlds.

[maiden flume]

And I really want it's mechanics to return in a later game

[stuck bane]

“What’s sword and shield? PLA was the only Gen 8 game we got and the anime had to have ash travelling around the world because of it”

[maiden flume]

A valid criticism, could've had more to do

[finite thistle]

I'm not a fan of the controls personally, had to buy a pro-controller because I got tired of my fingers slipping on the shallow Joy-Con triggers. That and nerfing the Mass Outbreaks held the game back a bit for me

[hollow quest]

the controls were a bit hard to get used to, i'll admit that

[maiden flume]

Yeah, but once you got the hang of them, they were really fun

And no IVs were just... Mwah

[fair jewel]

PLA hard carried the Pokemon series for quite awhile

I know alot of ppl who stopped buying the Pokemon games because they were all "samey", but PLA being open world with unique mechanics drew them back in

[maiden flume]

PLA be like: "Everyone liked that"

[finite thistle]

I still like the game quite a lot, it's just not my favorite. I do enjoy the pre-patch shiny hunting a ton. Enough to do full shiny runs of the game

[spare frost]

I also really dislike the thing of, catching a shitload of one specific Pokemon to fill out your encyclopedia. I only ever like catching one of one type of Pokemon, and then that is the one of those Pokemon that is mine. I don't like having, I dunno, 3 different Arcanines that I pick from any time I want to use just one. And I especially don't like catching Pokemon for the sake of it, so they can languish in the PC for eternity. So having that baked in to the game's mechanics was the worst thing for me.

[hollow quest]

but PLA was probably the game i enjoyed myself the most in, having new boss fights and dodging attacks was really cool, as well as the new catching mechanics

[maiden flume]

Same, it was a terrifying experience learning that "OH SHIT, THERE'S A SNORLAX AFTER ME!"

[hollow quest]

if you had to catch them the old ways, i would agree very much so, but because of bein able to just throw a ball at everything and possibly catchin it, i found it way more fun

[maiden flume]

And Paras, MAN THAT ATTITUDE PROBLEM

[hollow quest]

you didn't need to battle every single mon to catch it, you could surprise it from behind or distract it with food or catch it as it sleeps

[finite thistle]

Honestly getting past the Snorlax is just the beginning. Spent way too much time in the early game with the Alpha Alakazam my first time through. The terrain is surprisingly favorable for hit and run

[maiden flume]

Yep, you could just Metal Gear that shit

[hollow quest]

the alpha rapidash was a shared ptsd thing i feel, nobody expected it the first time around

[spare frost]

True it would've been much more cumbersome with the classic catching, but I think making it more casual reduces the narrative weight of "this is a living creature, they're in your care now". Which is something previous games emphasized every now and then.
The thing I always think of is the Kanto starters in Pokemon Yellow, where they were somewhat characterized in their own right before you even get to take them. Would really like if the games did that more often.

[empty pendant]

legends arceus was fun but I actually think scarvi is really good--with some more of legends arceus's 'areas have more distinct visual identity from each other', visual style, more polish, and actually fixing the bugs, it would have been the best pokemon game of all time

[hollow quest]

well considering most of them would not be in your direct care, it doesn't really matter about the narrative. not to mention, the "PC" is a giant marsh thing now so at least they're havin more fun than in a digital box

i wish s/v kept more of these mechanics

[brisk vessel]

BDSP is good for the sole reason that it's easily THE MOST moddable pokemon game period

[hollow quest]

regitube

[brisk vessel]

Truly

https://vxtwitter.com/TheYisusOne/status/1728428694346060139

[hushed mantle]

What a way to turn the worst pokemon game into the best

[brisk vessel]

https://vxtwitter.com/TheYisusOne/status/1729877898474254396?s=20

Ultra necrozma to stay on topic with this channel

[hollow quest]

gen 7 tinkered with more open boxes also with the pelago, which was cool

but that's just a side note

[brisk vessel]

Pokepelago was great and made EV training super convenient

[spare frost]

Maybe that wasn't the right way of saying what I was getting at. What I mean is, the entire franchise, particularly early on and in the anime and what-not, pushed the idea of forming bonds with individual Pokemon. I feel like one of the primary modes of engagement shifting to just casually tossing balls and like "ehhhh maybe i'll catch it if not i don't care" goes against that theming somewhat.
And "ehhh gotta get 8 more wynauts to fill out this sheet and then never look at them again", I dislike that.
(numbers and/or pokemon referenced in this example may not be applicable to the actual game)

[brisk vessel]

I love being able to literally do nothing while my Pokemon maxed itself out on Atk EVs

Apparently you can even make custom moves with custom animations and effects now in BDSP

(This one is bringing over the SWSH Explosion to BDSP I think)
https://vxtwitter.com/TheYisusOne/status/1729153183862370766?s=20

https://vxtwitter.com/TheYisusOne/status/1725166875301069279?s=20

Ultra Necrozma to stay on topic with the channel

[maiden flume]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-z-move-the-light-that-burns-the-sky-gif-27570537

[hollow quest]

confession, i rarely utilized z-moves

[fair jewel]

Why use Z-moves when we have Mega Lopunny and Gardevoir Evolution?

[hollow quest]

i think they're cool but i never felt a need to use one, since you could only do it once per battle anyway, at least the other gimmicks lasted a certain period of time

[brisk vessel]

It's like the elemental gems they had in previous gens I guess

[fair jewel]

It's better than that, since u can control WHEN u want to use it

[brisk vessel]

One time use for a big boosted dmg attack

[brisk vessel]

I'd say a sidegrade since for gems you could also use them multiple times if you had multiple pokemon with them

[hollow quest]

also half the time i just forget to give them the crystal for it

i know that's more on me but still, it was easy to forget if you had multiple uses for them

[brisk vessel]

I'm pretty sure Z moves is what made Eevee viable in competitive

Because of how op Evoboost into Baton Pass could be

[hollow quest]

LGE's eevee was not okay

perfect IVs with busted signature moves

[hushed mantle]

Real ones use stored power eevee

[fresh salmon]

Btw, I think Gen 8 Mons are completely possible to add to V18, since I have a V17 Essentials project (Pokémon Plasma) that has a bunch of these guys (Drednaw, Corviknight, Pincurchin and Grimmsnarl)

[brisk vessel]

The version of Essentials PIF uses is extremely modded

[winged bear]

[fresh salmon]

So it wouldn't be just port the PBS file addition onto IF?

[brisk vessel]

It would screw over a lot of the code if he tried according to frogman

[fresh salmon]

Oh I understand

[surreal chasm]

Do you think it'd be possible to add mega evolution to the game?

We kind of already have it with Ultra Necrozma

[alpine rune]

The thing is there used to be mega evos

or so i heard

[tame flax]

what if instead of individual stones, it was just a single megastone

that way we could get double mega evolution fusions

imagine mega gyarazard X

[alpine rune]

You forgot the most integral part of that specific pokemon's mechanic

Charizard...

... has 2 mega evos

how is it going to be just 1 stone?

[tame flax]

how does LGPE handle it?

they do megas with no mega stones

[brisk solstice]

I believe it's just a prompt to select the form

[alpine rune]

wym?

[tame flax]

pokemon dont hold items in LGPE

[alpine rune]

They still use only 1 mega

You need to hold the item in your inventory and choose between Y or X

[tame flax]

and so why would that be an issue with a single mega stone for all mega evolution?

[alpine rune]

fair point

[brisk solstice]

Back when they were limited to 420 Pokemon they said they absolutely weren't doing megas because they could just be double fusion sprites. I still doubt they'll consider it because there's so many base mons they could add instead

[tame flax]

but they also announced they were adding forms

a prime example being u necrozma

[brisk solstice]

Meloetta has forms but she had to be split into two dex entries. It doesnt work when the types change

[tame flax]

and im pretty sure the reason meloetta is seperate mons and not a form swap is because of how tedious its form change is

[tame flax]

u necrozma is a type change

psychic to psychic dragon

[brisk solstice]

I guess, I just don't think it's worth it compared to what they could focus on

[tame flax]

and i think i want to see mega beedrill fused with mega sharpedo

[brisk solstice]

Request it in #sprite-requests

[tame flax]

not just a sprite

statwise too

[brisk solstice]

Then make a #game-suggestions

[tame flax]

and i want to see the sprite change when i hit the mega button

[tame flax]

well we were talking about it here, a mon not in the game is a new mon and megas aint in

[brisk solstice]

This channel is for the confirmed new mons such as meloetta, necrozma, etc. not requests

[oblique stag]

is there a reason gen 9 pokemon arent able to be added?

[tame flax]

What do you think this channel was for before they revealed any new mons?

[tame flax]

Technical limitations, no gen 8 neither

[brisk solstice]

This channel didn't exist before they revealed them

[oblique stag]

damn a lot of cool fusions could come from gen 8 and 9

[tame flax]

Yes it did, it was made as soon as the poll was made

It's the whole reason this channel is still in slow mode after all these months

It was made to contain people talking about new mons being added to a single channel to prevent spam in other channels, and slowed down to become manageable

https://tenor.com/view/deep-magic-lion-witch-narnia-dont-recite-gif-14879671

At the start, the timer used to be a minute

And this is still the place people come to talk about potential future additions to the roster as well in potential future polls

[brisk solstice]

I misspoke. I did mean the channel didn't exist before they posted the poll, When 420 was the limit. I'm just going by the channel description dude

[tame flax]

Why does the 420 limit matter?

With the new way fusions are stored, all mons up to gen 7 may be possible

And I imagine that would include megas

[brisk solstice]

#game-suggestions message

[tame flax]

nah

[brisk solstice]

[tame flax]

so anyways, how dope would Ultra Mega Necrodrill be?

[clever atlas]

So I wonder, if you have a double necrozma fusion and ultra burst, would both halves burst at the same time or only one?

[fickle loom]

for lucario/sceptile should i use overgrow or inner focus?

[oak ravine]

Considering self-fusions are mostly aesthetic, I'd say it transforms just like it was one Pokemon

[prime dust]

both do

[sullen elbow]

Yeah, so its impossible to get Necrozma/Ultra necrozma

[clever atlas]

#fusions

[south umbra]

I know poketubers exist but this is ridiculous

[south umbra]

ultranecrozma with any baby pokemon to get the "nuclear bomb vs coughing baby"

[prime dust]

yes

[tame flax]

What does double ultra necrozma look like?

[proud lion]

Discord Light Mode

[tame flax]

Checks out

[merry shale]

If I'm correct most of the Pokemon past Kanto and Johto are either rare encounters or postgame encounters am I correct?
I meant Pokemon from Hoenn to current gen right?
I know we always get Honedge from an NPC later on as a gift but what about wild locations for the rest?

[tame flax]

I wouldn't call the rock tunnel late

It's like right after the third gym, 2nd if you don't need flash

[lament tundra]

Pokeradar and gifts

Most of the newly added mons are found as eggs in nests lying around.

[orchid vault]

if you play on modern mode you get a lot of latter gen mons added to the encounter pools on routes instead of just gift and radar, however the new batch of mons from the last update havn't been added to the encounter pool yet so they are still only egg/quest/gift for now

potential spoilers? but those are the encounter tables for the routes in normal and modern https://infinitefusion.fandom.com/wiki/Wild_Encounters
https://infinitefusion.fandom.com/wiki/Wild_Encounters/Modern

[inland jewel]

Most of them are in the routes as radar mons, given as gift mons or quest rewards

Some are also just naturally on the route

[inland jewel]

Porygon/Necrozma
Porygon/UNecozma

Discord Dark Mode and Discord Light Mode

[silent acorn]

Hey that's a good idea

[loud sorrel]

Are we getting a sprite pack update today

[stuck bane]

I don't think its always exactly the first day of each month, but the first few days of the month definitely, which I think we'll be getting all sprites up to october if I remember correctly?

[loud sorrel]

Should be

[fallen loom]

who the hell thought of that? It's genius!

[oak ravine]

Wasn't it the last day of each month?

[limber niche]

They had a period of a few months where the pack released on the 10th or 11th of the month, however the past few months have been either on the last day of the month or on the first of the next month (so today). Last pack was released on November 1st at like 11:20pm

[loud sorrel]

Ok so hopefully it drops soon

[stuck bane]

I know it's easier on the mods, but a little part of me is still disheartened that we won't get some good melo fusions like the lofi girl one or the registeel one until like beginning of january February, that's really the only reason (besides of course a good event in game) I'm partially hoping it takes a really long time to add melo so all the good fusions (especially the contest ones) can get in as well

[glossy osprey]

that wait is trivial compared to the one that some people have to go through whose favourite didn't make the cut

[lament tundra]

They said this month's pack will be late because the last one had a lot of errors in it.

The new update caused a lot of numbering problems.

[stuck bane]

True, sorry for your loss, for what it’s worth I def remember giving guzz a 2 since he’s cool

[alpine rune]

Very funny

[robust geyser]

incredible

[fickle loom]

is ther a file i can check to see each route's encounters after randomized

[loud sorrel]

not sure if there is

think its all trial and error
you could use that one pokemon detector that detects the pokemon present in a certain area
but i think you need a buneary to get that item from an npc
and for a randomized run that can be difficult lol

[slim otter]

I thought you needed an abra

[loud sorrel]

was it abra or buneary?
might be one of the two
point is you need to give that npc a certain pokemon to get the pokemon scanner thing and that certain pokemon may or may not be available in a randomized run

[worldly nova]

petition to add volibeat to the game so trapinch/volibeat could be named "trapbeat"

[loud sorrel]

are illumise and volbeat good or not

[worldly nova]

they get silver wind

that's about it lol

[orchid vault]

it's an abra for the radar, but it's hardcoded with each route encounter and doesn't show what the randomized mons are instead of the default

[silent acorn]

Demand for Illumise and Volbeat has never been higher on this chat

The numbers Steven what do they mean?

[loud sorrel]

do you think we'll ever be able to get all the pokemon from another gen
we have all the gen 1 and 2 pokemon
do you think we'll ever get all the pokemon from another gen like gen 3 or 4

[white meadow]

im fine with all of gen 7 because it's the best fr

[silent acorn]

I think we can skip the lame fireflies

[loud sorrel]

heres all the pokemon that arent in yet
(ignore meloetta this was made before she was picked)

[sullen elbow]

Honestly I'd rather just get mons from multiple gens

[silent acorn]

Crabominable ||sike||

[white meadow]

abomasnow from gen 7 fire

[loud sorrel]

i counted, and gen 4 is the gen with the least amount of pokemon not in game yet (not counting gens 1 and 2 of course)

[white meadow]

anyway im fine with all of gen 7 minus 2 pokemon!

[silent acorn]

Guru and Jock ||madden edition||

[white meadow]

tbh crabrawler isn't that bad, coconut crabs are cool, if it wasn't for that dumbass haircut it would be acceptable

[loud sorrel]

let's be honest, there are quite a few filler pokemon out there
and we can survive without all the pokemon getting in
however itd be nice and satisfying if we could get them all in
complete another gen

[sullen elbow]

Makes sense most of gen 4 mons in the game are evos

[oblique stag]

Ooo Alolan starters would be cool

[loud sorrel]

i know right
everyone wants more starters
unless theyre split apart from the other two lines in the starter trio lol

[silent acorn]

Yeeyee ass haircut ||Uzi||

[sullen elbow]

Yeah, the fusions dont have to look dumb just because the mon has a bad haircut

[silent acorn]

Admit it. Gen 4 has some of the best dark and poison types

[oblique stag]

Cryogonal would make some interesting fusions

[silent acorn]

We got regice so I think we can pass on it

Same for Avalugg

I mean more ice types is basically asking for more mid game mons which by Fushia you have settled with like 5 things probably

[loud sorrel]

I wonder when we'll see the starter sets show up
i know they're gonna come eventually cause they got hella votes on the pokemon vote
but when is the question

[sullen elbow]

Skuntank is weighting down drapion there

[oblique stag]

Other than the Alola starters only Mon I really want us emolga because I love that guy, sigilyph would be fun

[silent acorn]

Man who knows they just added 40+ mons and two with different forms

[loud sorrel]

true

[silent acorn]

How in the name of the Holy potato are those related

[loud sorrel]

obviously i dont expect to see them anytime soon
we'd have to wait at least a year for them

[silent acorn]

I'd be fine with that. Meloetta does the niche I had imagined Popplio would take

[loud sorrel]

both poison types
skuntank is bad, which weighs down the poison types
drapion is good, but gets weighed down

[sullen elbow]

They are gen 4 dark poison

[silent acorn]

You do realize Drapion doesn't really have downsides

[loud sorrel]

i actually hope they take their time with the starters
id like them to be implemented properly

[loud sorrel]

yeah, it gets weighed down by skuntank being there
the gen 4 poison types are worse overall cause of skuntank

[silent acorn]

Also what's hilarious is that many people don't want Medicham because it's another pure power but, have you ever checked the learnset of it? It's freaking nuts

[loud sorrel]

i think chatot would be mildly interesting, but meloetta sorta covers its music note niche

[silent acorn]

They aren't a pair, Drapion is basically standalone and just shares the typying with Skuntank for whatever reason

[loud sorrel]

point is skuntank is not good lol

[silent acorn]

Yeah I don't think so. We got music covered nicely. I wasn't defending Skuntank, that's as futile as trying to make Chatot more interesting than what it is.

Because... I mean look at Chatot, I love parakeets and I can tell you it's a very boring one.

[loud sorrel]

man i just know that if amoongus were to get in, thered be a million among us sprites with it

[silent acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/among-us-gif-22758383

[stone cliff]

Give Chatot its original ability

[loud sorrel]

yeah, as if theyd implement a microphone feature just for this one mon lol

[silent acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-tanamen-gecky-incorporeal-gif-21102682

[loud sorrel]

i actually think the inkay line would be pretty cool
when inkay evolves into malamar, it turns upside down
if you havent noticed, malamar is an upside down squid
i think that trait would make for some really creative fusions

[silent acorn]

One gimmick off mon. I mean i like it when gimmicks do something interesting... But that mic feature is gone beaches. Also frog updates them to their modern versions not the old ones.

[sullen elbow]

What keen eye?

[stone cliff]

I just wanna make my Chatot say Alex Jones quotes, is that so much to ask?

[loud sorrel]

chatot had a feature where you could make a voice clip with the console's microphone, and it would play that voice clip when it did a move or entered battle i think

[silent acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-8ball-fortune-gif-23103658

[sullen elbow]

I know did you not see the emoji

[loud sorrel]

oh that was a joke lol

[silent acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/whomp-whomp-gif-12107264

[worldly nova]

if i had to choose one line from each generation:

• Gen 3: Spheal line
• Gen 4: Bronzor line (specifically for its abilities lol)
• Gen 5: Drilbur line
• Gen 6: Pancham line
• Gen 7: Wimpod line

[silent acorn]

Malamar is freaking badass man. Psychic/Dark, alien squid thing, contrary? Like that's just a gift

[plucky bobcat]

Here's mine:

Gen 3: Spheal
Gen 4: Staraptor

[silent acorn]

Spheal est mort

[plucky bobcat]

Gen 5: Jellicent
Gen 6: Florges
Gen 7: Kommo-O

[loud sorrel]

for me itd be:
gen 3-tropius
gen 4-croagunk
gen 5-leavanny
gen 6-inkay
gen 7-the four tapus
not counting starters or ultra beasts

at the end of the day, the more the merrier
unless they do weird stuff like separating the popplio line from the other two starter lines or something

[worldly nova]

golisopod is so cool please add him

[oak ravine]

I agree he's cool, but he won't get in now... Maybe next year, if we have another round of new Pokémon

[loud sorrel]

i think whiscatch would make for fun fusions with fish pokemon
example: magikarp and whiscath, and its school form takes the shape of a red shiny gyarados

[orchid vault]

wiscash is the gen 3 catfish, I think you are thinking of wishiwashi

[loud sorrel]

oh yeah i am lol
sorry i get my pokemon mixed up sometimes lol

[orchid vault]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pokémon-whiscash-catfish-water-gif-13532774113755813510

[loud sorrel]

whiscash wouldnt be bad though

[worldly nova]

whiscash sounds fun

[orchid vault]

I don't think he's one of the most interesting mons that we could add, but he's fine, I don't have a problem with wiscash lol

[loud sorrel]

it wouldnt hurt
except maybe taking up a slot for another pokemon

[worldly nova]

eventually everyone will be added so he'll be here eventually

[alpine rune]

Just replace the sound files lul

I think holgast made some kind of audio replacement mod

[loud sorrel]

hopefully ill live to see the day that all gen 1-7 pokemon get into IF

[stuck bane]

I know Gen 5 will be near the tail end of additions because people hate it, but my biggest dream would be to get at least half the unova dex in the game before completing other regions, like we don’t have THAT many sucky picks

[loud sorrel]

people hate gen 5?
i thought gen 5 was peak

[stuck bane]

Congrats you’re one of the lucky few, I think most people here hate them due to level curves but there’s also some genuine gen 5 hate, but yes B2W2 was peak pokemon and that’s a fact

[loud sorrel]

like
gen 4 was good
gen 5 was awesome
gen 6 was a step down but i still liked it
id say gen 5 is a peak pokemon game

[silent acorn]

Ah tropius tropius tropius...

My accursed mon that people love for being derpy

[hollow quest]

too bad it's kinda doo doo to use

[silent acorn]

I mean if it gets through vote is one slot so maybe not THAT BAD

[loud sorrel]

i like tropius
its quite nice
not super useful though

[stuck bane]

Gen 3: good
Gen 4: great
Gen 5: peak
Gen 6: alright
Gen 7: alright/good, haven’t decided, dragged down hard from SM/USUM and so few changes
Gen 8: great because my headcanon of only PLA existing overrides all
Gen 9: not done yet, but at least good

[loud sorrel]

gen 8 was probably the most mediocre game in the series

[stuck bane]

Tropius was great, was considering making it a staple of my team as a kid until I saw Serperior

[hollow quest]

PLA was just so good it helped balance the shite

[loud sorrel]

legends arcues is an amazing pokemon game
just wish teh graphics were better
and that future games kept the stuff it introduced

battle styles are cool
catching pokemon in the overworld is cool

[cinder oasis]

Sword and shield sucks so much

[stuck bane]

Want to say PLA was the best remake ever but B2W2 exist, definitely between those two

[hollow quest]

PLA isn't a remake

[loud sorrel]

i wouldnt call it outright terrible
but it was a major step down in quality
and sorta showed how pokemon was becoming lazy

[cinder oasis]

It's not a remake lol

[stuck bane]

Does PLA even count as a remake though?
Ok there we go

[cinder oasis]

It's terrible

[loud sorrel]

its more of a spinoff i think?

[sullen elbow]

just because it occurs in sinnoh doesn't make it a remake

[loud sorrel]

the graphics are kinda bad
the story is kinda bad
the new pokemon i think were alright
the gameplay and balancing were not that great

[sullen elbow]

B2W2 also isn't a remake lol its a sequel

[hollow quest]

i personally don't think sw/sh was terrible, but it was helped out by the DLCs ultimately, the originals have many issues

[cinder oasis]

The new pokemon were honestly goated imo but everything else was dogshit

[sullen elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-sizzlipede-gif-26440736

[cinder oasis]

Sw/sh is an absolute dumpster fire of a game

[stuck bane]

Oh yeah I suppose you’re right, so if b2w2 is the best sequel, I guess that makes PLA the best prequel? Then what’s the best remake?

[loud sorrel]

these games just need more time in the oven to develop them properly
we dont need yearly releases
like, i was so surprised to see we were getting gen 9 so soon after gen 8

[proud lion]

Gen 3- Zangoose/Seviper
Gen 4- Bronzong
Gen 5- Simipour
Gen 6- Slurpuff
Gen 7- Melmetal

[hollow quest]

in terms of how i compare it to others, eh...it's better than gen 1, 2 and 6 to me

[cinder oasis]

You think gen 8 is better?

[loud sorrel]

i actually havent played gens 1-3 in full before so i cant say much about their quality
gen 8 isnt completely terrible it just has a lot of flaws

[stuck bane]

It’s not too surprising, pokemon has always had a tight schedule, platinum to x and y were each a year back to back to back to one another

[cinder oasis]

It's terrible

[loud sorrel]

they know that pokemon is a money printer so they make as many as possible just to keep printing money
but if they gave the games time to breathe then they could make even more money and keep fans happier

[stuck bane]

And I know that because I have a poster

[loud sorrel]

wow those are almost yearly releases
so this has been happening since the beginning

[hollow quest]

i do, yes. gen 1 was a broken mess of a game held together by marshmallow fluff and hopes, gen 2 felt like a more refined version of gen 1 but introduced its own issues, and gen 6 was such a fuckin pain to get through, i hated it

[stuck bane]

Although I agree definitely slow down now we’re not on the DS anymore

[cinder oasis]

Gen 1,2 suck definitely because of their age, but gen 6 is way better

[loud sorrel]

i think part of it is that a lot of other things depend on games coming out at a quick pace
think of all the pokemon cards and merch and stuff thats based off the newest pokemon
if a new pokemon game doesnt come out for a while then they cant make other merch for a while
so it delays everything in that regard
from a money standpoint i can see why they wouldnt want to wait more time to develop a game
still not good though

[hollow quest]

well, considering i had far more fun in gen 8 than gen 6, i find gen 8 way better. that's just how i view it

[loud sorrel]

but still
pokemon is the highest grossing franchise in the world
surely they can stand to wait like two or three years without a new mainline game right
they waited six years between gen 3 and 4 right

[cinder oasis]

That's interesting ig

[stuck bane]

I think Gen 6 might just get a pass on default because it can at least stand on its own without DLC, although barely, meanwhile swsh fans argue the DLC should be treated as part of the whole package

[hollow quest]

even without dlc i found gen 8 more tolerable

[loud sorrel]

yeah i feel like some content from these dlcs shouldve been folded into the base game
maybe if they waited and got more time to develop they could have made it more base game content

[cinder oasis]

A lot of it should've been in the base game

[hollow quest]

partway through gen 6 i just wanted to drop it, but i have a rule that i must at least beat the E4 in the main games before forming my opinion, so i did. i still hated it

[cinder oasis]

That's surprising

[loud sorrel]

ok i didnt think gen 6 was that bad
i sorta liked it

[stuck bane]

Coulda been nostalgia during the golden age of b2w2 and expecting a better game and proceeding to gaslight yourself into thinking it was ok, but hey, what do I know?

[cinder oasis]

Personally gen 7 is kinda boring and gen 8 is trash

[loud sorrel]

I didn’t play these games during their release windows
I played them on emulators back to back

[hollow quest]

the concept is cool, fairy typing, player customization and megas were cool, but i did not like anything else. i couldn't connect with anything at all, i hardly liked any of the gym leaders or E4 or rivals. but i will give credit in that it introduced good things

[cinder oasis]

I think every other gen is at least decent even if I dislike gen 2 tbh

[loud sorrel]

There’s at least something good in each Gen
None of them are worthless

[hollow quest]

meanwhile i loved gen 7, but not exactly for its story, more so its atmosphere and mechanics

[cinder oasis]

Honestly the designs of the gen 8 gyms are better, the characters are much more recognizable and interesting but gen 8 is still stinky

[hollow quest]

also its mon set was really good imo

[sand mica]

They're pretty good for being old games.

[cinder oasis]

I played yellow and it sucked

[hollow quest]

i give gen 1 somewhat of a pass, they had to start somewhere, but that doesn't mean they're good games either. i think the most enjoyable part of them was breaking them

[cinder oasis]

I think gen 7 was boring in gameplay but the region and pokemon are nice

[inland jewel]

Gen 8 would be good IF, there was a postgame to do, and there wasn't so much hand holding

[cinder oasis]

There's many many more problems it has

[inland jewel]

like, we got something to do ONLY after 2 dlcs

[hollow quest]

but at the end of the day, i have to keep in mind that if they were given more time, they could make a better product

[loud sorrel]

Gen 1 was always gonna be the worst
Tons of bugs and glitches and it’s horribly dated now
But it did lay the groundwork for better games

[stuck bane]

I quit at SM, when I heard a friend of mine couldn’t even finish USUM, and he’s a bigger fan than me so I just didn’t bother, tried PLA it was great and SV was good not including DLCs

[hollow quest]

SV is a lot of fun despite its obvious problems. unlike sw/sh, it stood up better without DLCs

[cinder oasis]

SV is honestly so much better

I like S/V more then the previous 2 mainline games

[hollow quest]

but SV is also the absolute pinnacle example of why they need to be given more time to make the games

[cinder oasis]

Gen 8 is the pinnacle imo

[stuck bane]

You hate PLA? It’s a mainline game according to gamefreak

[cinder oasis]

PLA is the best pokemon game I've played for the past 6 years

[hollow quest]

gen 8 at least didn't lag all over the place, have you clip through shit and have graphics break every 2 seconds

[stuck bane]

Ok good

[white meadow]

Idk, it feels like after Sun and Moon everything went downhill

But don't quote me on that

[loud sorrel]

I think I remember seeing an article that said the Pokémon company was rethinking their development strategy and was looking to improve how they approach game development and management
Meaning they might give more dev time to future titles hopefully

[stuck bane]

Yes, USUM and swsh and bdsp felt like that, but things might be getting better with PLA and sv?

[cinder oasis]

At least gen 9 doesnt look like shit and it's features at least work

[white meadow]

Let's hope so

[hollow quest]

gen 8 lookin like shit is a wild take to me

[cinder oasis]

That's crazy

[white meadow]

It sucks that Pokemon turned into yearly-game franchise like Call of Duty

[hollow quest]

it definitely ain't perfect but it ain't shit either

[stuck bane]

Yeah, wasn’t a fan of how dreary and gray swsh looked ||but maybe they were staying true to uk?|| I think sv def looks brighter and more in line with the Pokémon world

[loud sorrel]

You’d think they would have higher standards

[loud sorrel]

S/V was a step up from sw/sh but a step down from pla

[hollow quest]

yeah i had the notion that it looked darker to match its regional influence

[white meadow]

Nintendo or Pokemon fans? Regardless, not as high as one would think

[cinder oasis]

Masterpiece

[loud sorrel]

Maybe both
Pokémon should make better games and the fans should expect better games

[white meadow]

"this is how videogames will look in 2005"

[hollow quest]

i did not say it was a masterpiece, please do not put words in my mouth

[stuck bane]

SM had me on the fence, USUM turned me away, swsh sealed the deal, bdsp made me cry, and PLA made me believe in a good god again

[sullen elbow]

the quality of the move animations definitaly went down although I get that it's in part because you battle in the overworld

[cinder oasis]

I said it was a masterpiece

A true craftsman at work making these PS3 areas

[stuck bane]

Like, pokemon def has the fun side down, but PLA waves did look like GameCube era, pretty sure poke park Wii had better graphics

[hollow quest]

[hollow quest]

graphics aren't everything, that's how i wish more people saw it. you're goin right back to the 90s with that ideology

[cinder oasis]

For being forgettable Let's go Eevee and Pikachu have awesome graphics

[cinder oasis]

Graphics are a massive part of a game

Design is still more important but graphics play a part in designs

[white meadow]

imo, style is more important than graphics, an example of that are the previous generations, like the original Black and White

[stuck bane]

Again, loved pla, but tears of the kingdom is the closest comparable game, gamefreak did sprites best and I partially wish they stayed with them

[hollow quest]

well, lucky for you, almost all fan games do sprites

[stuck bane]

Hence why I’m here

[white meadow]

Problem is, the graphics aren't the best, and the artstyle is not great either

[stuck bane]

Fans know what they want, as long as we dodge those copyright claims we don’t need them to tell us how to have fun

[hollow quest]

i don't think they'll ever go back in mainline games, which is unfortunate but i understand a game franchise has to continually evolve to remain relevant usually. i think they can make 3D work better, if they had more time and resources to do so

[stuck bane]

I think they definitely could, biggest franchise ever or something? I think they could hire the best developers to work on it, but it’s just more profitable to keep the wheel spinning (because of reasons besides the games like cards/plushes)

[white meadow]

Yup, indeed, a style that could be interesting is low poly, like the Rumble games, maybe some more complex shaders could really complement that artstyle

[lean kelp]

is the riaku/suicune pokemon quest thing still bugged at route 33 where is it going thru the grass and cant find it

[stuck bane]

I loved rumble! I know people will think I’m delusional but I loved my Pokémon ranch too and have wanted another one so badly

[hollow quest]

worst part is that it's more a higher-up control issue rather than the dev company itself

like anime artists/producers, they are severely overworked and understaffed for what they do

it ultimately ties into the whole extreme work ethic issue in japan, but i won't elaborate further for political reasons

[stuck bane]

Yeah, they could but won’t, ah well, how many more years til it becomes public domain? Or will they pull a Disney and keep finding loopholes?

[drowsy elm]

I think it's like 94ish years for something to be public domain

[hollow quest]

yup, but they keep finding loopholes

i believe it's been stated that the first rendition enters public domain january 1, but there's more nuance to that stuff that i'm not knowledgeable in copyright/trademark law enough to understand

[white meadow]

Meloetta means more possible Hatsune Miku fusions

[stuck bane]

Not only those, not a ton of miku or waifu fusions from what I’ve seen, way more music and dance and instruments, and it’s glorious

[white meadow]

Hatsune Miku??

Ewwwwww

I'm personally excited about necrozma

W

[mystic rivet]

I just want more customs overall for the new additions

Which will hopefully soon

[white meadow]

Other than Deoxys/Gardevoir and the inverse? I think that’s right, or maybe I’m gonna embarrass myself for thinking it’s the wrong character

#fusions message

[inland jewel]

Meloetta, the new age of vtuber fusions

[arctic glacier]

Someone give me an idea to use my secret spriter on

[white meadow]

Meloetta form 1 + meloetta form 2 + arceus

[arctic glacier]

The forbidden Triple

[loud sorrel]

yknow what thats a good point
wouldnt be surprised to see meloetta+lopunny=pikpin pippa

[inland jewel]

the yabbit is real

though people might also do that for Pekora

[loud sorrel]

meloetta/any dog for korone

[plucky bobcat]

Meloetta + Sharpedo = Gawr Gura
Meloetta + Golduck = Subaru?
Meloetta + Moltres = Kiara
Meloetta + Froslass = Lamy

[loud sorrel]

i dont know a whole lot of vtubers
i know korone, gawr gura, and pippa
and i dont watch vtubers either

[inland jewel]

Callie for Dusknoir,
Ina for Tentacruel
Coco for Dragonite

[loud sorrel]

just had a thought
if inkay got in, it would be perfect for splatoon sprites

[plucky bobcat]

If Wooloo was in the game, it would be Watame.

[inland jewel]

Sad no Watame, she did nothing wrong

[plucky bobcat]

I think we could also have Dialga for Kronii, Palkia for Sana, Lunala for Moona, but which one should be Mio?

[inland jewel]

Lunala ain’t in

[plucky bobcat]

Oh

[inland jewel]

Mumei noctowl

[tame flax]

Mareep

[plucky bobcat]

Ok.

Wait, what about Gallade for Iroha?

[tame flax]

Couldn't mio be lycanroc?

[plucky bobcat]

Which one?

[tame flax]

Day, she's a wolf not a werewolf

But why stop at hololive?

[plucky bobcat]

Wait, wouldn't Fubuki fit better as Lycanroc?

[tame flax]

Fbk is a fox

[plucky bobcat]

So what options do we have? What fox pokemon are in the game?

[tame flax]

If we had alolan ninetales it'd be perfect

[plucky bobcat]

Alternatively, Kurokami can be Zoroark

[tame flax]

What about clefairy for pomu

[plucky bobcat]

Wailord for Shylily?

Wait: Crobat for Mel

And Ariados can be the Haachama Spider

[stone cliff]

I really hope Meloetta gets used for more than just waifus

Seeing a lot of variety so far, so I have hope lol

[stuck bane]

It is have you not been seeing them?

Oh I misunderstood my b

[stone cliff]

I'm just worried that after the initial hype dies down people are just gonna default to waifumon lol

[plucky bobcat]

I doubt it would go that far.

[stuck bane]

Maybe when chatot or other music mons come out it’ll be stretched thin, but for now it seems like 4% or so are waifu/miku

(Also we’re reaching 200 Melo sprites or something and I don’t think it’s even been a week)

[stone cliff]

Like, I don't mind if it makes sense. If Meloetta/Gardevoir wasn't Miku I'd be surprised. But if we start throwing in every vtuber and such it's gonna get to be a bit much

That being said, alt sprites are fine as long as the main ones are original lol

[high mauve]

imo alts just like counting stars in the sky. There are too many of them to discuss.
I agree that main has to be faithful to the intended original pokemons

[brisk vessel]

I have only made 1 Miku out of all the melo sprites I made

Despite the fact that I only ever do reference sprites

[hushed mantle]

The accident happened 10 years ago. Skuntank is not coming back. You have to move on

[spare frost]

Forgot Meloetta

I went ahead and ranked the Pokemon that did get added.
I will admit, I did come out of the poll well! Did get some of my personal favourites, even though there are some I would've preferred.

[brisk vessel]

I'm pretty sure we were gonna get Garbodor no matter what considering it's the creator of the game's favorite mon 🥹

[spare frost]

Oh yeah, I do get it. Don't get me wrong.

[brisk vessel]

I would have done without the Regis but I can see the appeal for the meme potential and "cool golems"

[spare frost]

I get the appeal of Garbodor way more than the Regis.

[spare frost]

I still feel like Golurk is just the Regis but cooler honestly.

[stuck bane]

well it's not his most favorite, else it would've been in from the beginning, but I'm happy to bring garbodor along since it means unova did in fact get at least half as many reps as all the other big regions

[stuck bane]

true, but they have their place, they're good

[brisk vessel]

Yea Im not the biggest fan of the Regis but the "ün ün" jokes needed to happen eventually

And ig regigigas needed his trio too

But I'm not miffed about anything

Meloetta got added and thats all I care about

[spare frost]

Meloetta is nice enough of course, not my favourite Mythical by any means though.

[stuck bane]

let's see what are our S-tier picks (in my opinion)? scoli and garbo get in s-tier just cause we got so few unova reps, melo obviously has been the best choice and was like the best finale mon we could've asked for, sableye is s, goodra is s, snorunt line is s, alot of others were good/great but those were the only real s-tier obvious choices we got imo

[spare frost]

If I could've chosen one Mythical to make it over Meloetta...

[plush valley]

Diancie

[spare frost]

I want to say Keldeo because they're my personal favourite, but I think I might've gone for Shaymin.
Potentially some interesting stuff to be done with the two forms, and their nature theme is nice to work with.

[stuck bane]

shaymin and diancie are s, keldeo would prob unfortnately make MLP fusions, I'd rather take keldeo with the other swords of justice if anything else

[brisk vessel]

Melo was my #1 pick for this entire thing so I'm glad they made it in

It's really fun to mess around now that both forms can be used outside battle

[stuck bane]

big same, never was my most favorite (hydreigon) but has always been s tier and the potential for fusions just couldn't be ignored, it was the best choice out of any

[brisk vessel]

Though Diancie is also a good option

[stuck bane]

I loved when he made that change, twice as many chances to run into a melo during one of my randomized runs

[spare frost]

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I'm not sure Meloetta's alternate form really adds much for fusion potential. They are basically the same from that standpoint, one is just with a brown up-do.

[brisk vessel]

Also makes em much more viable in competitive play

[brisk vessel]

One is a singer and one is a dancer

[stuck bane]

please refer to the sprite gallery when searching meloetta

[spare frost]

I know, but they're not especially visually distinct is what I'm saying.

[spare frost]

I'm not saying they aren't going to produce nice sprites, just that one of the other Mythicals with an alternate form might've had a greater ceiling on their potential.

[stuck bane]

sorry but no, shaymin and diancie would've still been S-tier, but they would not have had as much potential as melo does with singing/dancing/instruments, that alone hard carries her above any other, diancie gems would be nice, shaymin land and sky and flowers would be nice, but nobody could fill the role melo plays now

[spare frost]

I mean, the variety comes from the alternate dancer form. But we literally just got all the Oricorio variants for dancers.

[stuck bane]

not exclusive and none of them are ballerinas

[spare frost]

Kirlia is a ballerina?

[stuck bane]

ok, kirlia is, but nobody uses the middle evos almost ever, not to mention pirouette form focuses more on physical dancing as its a fighting type

[spare frost]

That is fine, but. I'm just saying from the perspective of, what the spriters have to work with.

[stuck bane]

but besides that, you claim other mythicals would provide better ceiling potential than melo, by all means if another mythical would've been better and is secretly the best pick of all time I'm all ears, but I need reasons

if you can convince me, by all means I'll vote it a 3 if theres another vote

[spare frost]

As I say, just sitting here mulling it over now, I feel like my instinct would be Shaymin. They're two pretty distinct, but similarly appealing, designs.

[brisk vessel]

As a spriter, from what I've seen most of them would mainly want shaymin for the sky form

Since we already have a hedgehog pokemon so all shaymin land would do is make more sonic sprites according to the others

[spare frost]

Is there hedgehog Pokemon already? Drawing a blank.

[brisk vessel]

I don't speak for everyone of course just from what I've seen so far

[empty pendant]

as a spriter, I'm super glad we got necrozma I have been having so much fun

[brisk vessel]

Sandslash

[spare frost]

Aren't they more of a Pangolin?

[brisk vessel]

I still need to find time for my normal Necrozma Meloetta

[brisk vessel]

Stature wise I guess but a lot of people use Sandslash as a hedgehog

[empty pendant]

ooh, that sounds awesome! have you seen my necrozma swablu?

[spare frost]

I feel like that's more of a stop-gap though, might change once they get an actual hedgehog on the roster?

As a sidenote; Pangolins are so nice!

https://tenor.com/view/pangolin-walking-pangolin-pangolino-maéva-merceron-shy-pangolin-gif-22564401

[brisk vessel]

Big ol arms lad

[empty pendant]

chandelure/necrozma and chandelure/ultra necrozma were also really fun to do

[brisk vessel]

I still need to do some fixing up for my Ultra Necrozma/Meloetta cuz idk if I'm allowed to include black parts in the Ultra sprite

[spare frost]

Y'know this reminded me of an idea I had for the spritework channel.
Adding a "Misfit" category. Or something like that. For Pokemon that aren't currently in the game, but can pass as an alternative sprite for an existing Pokemon/combo.
And then should that Pokemon ever be added to the game, then they already have a smattering of sprites ready to go.

So like. The other day I was hoping Maractus got in, but they didn't. But I would be okay with just applying a Maractus fusion sprite to a Cacturne fusion sprite, that'd be an acceptable compromise.

If that makes sense.

If say Vespiquen was your absolute favourite Pokemon and you wanted them for fusing, you could maybe tolerate just using Beedrill as a stop-gap.

Kommo-o to Haxorus, Audino to maybe Clefable, etc.

I think that could possibly be a workable compromise!

[cinder oasis]

Shaymin

[spare frost]

As in. One in this game already.

[cinder oasis]

No

[mystic rivet]

i'd say sandslash is the closest in terms of sonic making the association be a spikey thing that rolls into a ball

[spare frost]

They're a Pangolin but they're used a Hedgehog, yeah.

[mystic rivet]

but that's really grasping at straws

[brisk vessel]

There's a spriter already doing this

[spare frost]

That's good!

[brisk vessel]

Yea but a lot of the mons they are using are gen 8 so we probably won't be getting them

[spare frost]

Guess they really have no hope, so that figures.

[brisk vessel]

Ik there was a Skarmory/Pidgeot that made Corviknight

I would have liked cryogonal so that I could fuse it with Rayquaza to make Peakternatus

[spare frost]

That's not bad.
But I'm not just talking about fusions to create the absentee Pokémon, I mean like. Say you request a fusion with a Pokemon that isn't in the game, and then once you've got it you can put into the game as a sprite for the best fit.

So say for example I really liked the idea of Maractus and, I dunno. Mawile. I request that sprite or design one myself, and I then set it up as an alternate sprite for Cacturne and Mawile.

[brisk vessel]

Ik there's a Gardevoir Dewgong that makes Primarina

[spare frost]

That is neat but also not solely what I mean!

[brisk vessel]

It literally looks more like a Gardevoir Primarina than a Dewgong

If that's not what you mean then idk what you're talking about

[spare frost]

I just gave an example scenario!

[brisk vessel]

Yea so a Mawile Cacturne that looks like Maractus

There's a Reshiram Stantler that looks like Xerneas

[spare frost]

Not looks like Maractus, looks like a Maractus Mawile fusion.

[brisk vessel]

That's exactly what I meant

[spare frost]

You were describing using normal sprites of the absentee Pokémon. At least that's what I got.

[brisk vessel]

If you don't mean something like this then idfk what you're talking about

This is what I meant

[spare frost]

Yeah!

[brisk vessel]

That's literally what I've been saying this entire time

[spare frost]

Think there was just some miscommunication.

I interpreted what you were saying as, they were just fusions that resulted in the ordinary sprites of Pokémon that aren't here.

[brisk vessel]

[spare frost]

Ahh I see what happened. I missed this message.

I only caught the message before because I was already typing.

So I thought you were saying "Dewgong + Gardevoir = regular Primarina sprite".

[brisk vessel]

shaking my head my head

[spare frost]

Not that that wouldn't be a fine thing to be available too.

[stuck cave]

I mean, if the shoe fits

[spare frost]

And it does for some!

[stuck bane]

Maractus is another s-tier pick from unova, although now a ton of people will argue it’s not necessary because Cacturne, but A. Maracas, and B. Happy cactus must balance out against evil cactus

[spare frost]

Maractus is sweet.

[stuck cave]

Meloetta/Dewgong is Primarina

[hollow quest]

actually yeah, someone do that as an alt please

[stuck cave]

I did Chansey/Shellder as a recolor of Clamperl, because egg == pearl

[stuck bane]

Oh wait that’s perfect yeah, Melo even has a handful of fairy type moves

[spare frost]

I may have to start considering what I'd most like to see Maractus paired with. There's that cute art of a fake evolution for them with a big ol' widebrim hat. Capturing something in that vein would be cool.

[finite thistle]

Sounds like something you'd get from Cacturne/Maractus or Ludicolo if he was in the game

[viral plume]

how is solgaleo still not in game

[alpine rune]

Because I said so

Get that useless orb away and I'll allow the sun and moon

[viral plume]

actually scratch both of those because i dont care

[alpine rune]

orb is just rich people magikarp

cant change my mind

[stone cliff]

I say we use Cosmog as an alt sprite for Magikarp

[cinder oasis]

Maractus stinky

[obtuse bluff]

We need Zygarde. It has the coolest freaking fusions aughdgkl;

[civic lily]

I wonder when the update for Meloetta will arrive :3

[rustic iron]

hi

[round light]

The voting system is rigged!(it's not, i just wanted Exploud🥲)

[tranquil bear]

how do I scare off the corsola?

[sullen elbow]

Wrong channel for this but you need a mareanie

[late torrent]

I want it too 😦

[tall bluff]

how can you read the randomized pokedex to see what pokemon are where?

Like specifically what in this document tells me what I need to know

[alpine rune]

1. Unsure, i dont think you can just "see" what randomized pokedex gives you because, well, random, so no documented cases that I know of.
2. Go to #gameplay-help to ask questions. This channel isnt really suited for QnA because well, slowmode

[silent acorn]

Wouldn't work, atleast it the fish learns Tackle

[silent acorn]

I stan Unova and I think Maractus is C Tier. We got a cactus boy now, that's good enough.

Seriously I like how everyone likes to hit on Gen 5 and yet they like Maractus even though it's just a cactus mon.

Its like when you mention gen 3 and almost instantaneously bring up tropius, even it was doodoo for the game and isn't even the most interesting mon from that Gen.

"But it's a cutesy cactus pokemon that's underappreciated!" I hear you say, counterpoint goddamn ice cream that can actually kill people.

I will agree on one thing, making a tier list on Gen 5 is actually easier, since not everything is gold

[stuck bane]

But even then it’s not “just a cactus Mon”, it brings maracas and even has a better ability than Cacturne in storm drain, though I definitely think that now Cacturne is in Maractus has taken a hit, similarly to how Melo probably took away a reason to add chatot, I see it a lot like adding Staraptor: amazing bird on its own, but so many things that it does are taken by pidgeot so nobody really considers it

[prime dust]

we already have a storm drain mon [lileep and cradily], and if we want another, i'd rather get shellos and gastrodon

[stuck bane]

Shellos and Gastrodon would be better storm drain mons because ground typing, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have good cactus fusions with storm drain

[sharp nebula]

Help my neighbours are playing Christmas songs very loud

[prime dust]

buy a better noise cancelling headset

[sharp nebula]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just... you know... go over and beat them

[stuck bane]

Yeah but then you’re letting them know that they’re succeeding in being annoying

[verbal owl]

Toxtricity when?

[agile olive]

I would love it but I think it's past the gen cutoff

[verbal owl]

Aw. Is Sw/Sh the cut off I guess?

[agile olive]

gens 8 and 9 are not gonna be implemented at all

[verbal owl]

Oof. Makes sense though

[agile olive]

if I could get one later one it would probably be toxtricity or grafaiai

[azure seal]

Where can I see wich new pokémon got added?

[stuck bane]

Pinned messages here

(Except Melo is confirmed to come in a future update, that’s not listed there)

[azure seal]

ok, thank you

[spare frost]

I will admit that my fondness for Maractus is just down to their design. I didn't ever get round to using them in-game, not sure how they do. Probably have a niche. 100+ Sp. ATK is pretty solid!

https://tenor.com/view/maractus-dancing-happy-gif-14508931

How sweet though.

[stuck bane]

In fact, another thing it has over Cacturne is having chlorophyll, helping make use of that high special attack to sweep, though I guess Cacturne has its own niches such as dark type with sand veil/water absorb (if you fuse it with a fire/rock/ground type)

(I will always find it hilarious though that Maractus is naturally faster than Cacturne despite the latter actually having legs)

[spare frost]

To be fair, Cacturne's gimmick is standing still. Scarecrow guy.

[stuck bane]

Wait really? I thought its whole shtick was to stalk people in the desert or something

[spare frost]

It is yeah, but because it looks like a scarecrow.

[south umbra]

cacturne is what you called hiding in plane sight

[proud lion]

I wonder if the reveals or done or if Frogman is on a roll with new mons?

[stuck bane]

Well, dex entries do mention standing still for a longtime, fair enough

[stuck bane]

It’s a good question, I’m hoping another batch will be announced semi soon (after holidays?) so we have more time to get meloetta sprites, if it’s similar to this anyways it gives another half year or so to code in the next batch

[proud lion]

If so, I hope there is one unpopular pick like the elemental monkeys

Gives a spice of life

[stuck bane]

TRUE, I’ve said my piece already but they’d be perfect for an April fools thing when you’re starting your game, also more unova reps

[brisk vessel]

Bruxish would be more likely for that tbh

[proud lion]

Maybe they could be the starters on that day

[stuck bane]

(Though that does bring up, people kept saying monkeys or wurmple for taking up most slots, but why didn’t anyone mention burmy? That takes up 7 slots with its forms)

[stuck bane]

Exactly what I was thinking

[proud lion]

"We SEE and HEAR your demands for bringing in new starters. So now we FEEL like now is the right time to reveal the brand new starters available right now in the latest update!"

[stuck bane]

“We even got them at a discount!”

Death threats would reach the thousands but I’d love em

[proud lion]

The new method of coding allows more Pokémon to be added, so if their mon ain't revealed now, it can later.

[prime dust]

barring the mon isn't in gen 8 or 9 or other future games

[stuck bane]

now, I think I heard somewhere that manual coding mons in might be possible, but it's way way way more work, but I'd rather see nearly everything else put in before that, if ever (frog has said he considers gen 8+ non-canon), so things like the full gen 7 nat dex, or even crazier things like megas using the underscore system or even z-moves as wild as that sounds, but all of those things are extremely far in the future/might never be happening

[prime dust]

megas won't be a thing, since we already have our weird funky game mechanic...z-moves won't likely go beyond necrozma since that is kind of required for Ultra Necrozma

[stuck bane]

there's no gaurantee on that, A. people love megas, B. would be a nightmare to code, but underscore system does technically open up the possibility of it, and C. the PIF team is super bias to hoenn of course they're gonna try and make megas work if possible considering many are hoenn mons

[prime dust]

actually there is a guarantee it won't happen

#game-suggestions message

mega add in new typings to existing mons [which can be achieved with the fusion mechanic], new sprites [many of which already exist as alts]

there is quite literally no reason to bring the mechnic in, z-moves are more possible because that's just new moves [which the Essentials database should have for the version IF uses]

[stuck bane]

oh I see, so even though there's no concrete message from frog or something saying "megas never gonna happen", it's just inherently broken for things like aggron losing rock typing which messes up the system, technically type changes could work if meloetta relic song works the way frog wants it to, but megas like aggron could mess it up so it's better if it's just avoided, that makes sense

[prime dust]

#game-suggestions message
this is the closest thing I could find to Frogman saying megas will likely never happen

[stuck bane]

oh well thats another point too, if he doesn't like megas he probably won't add them, I had just assumed due to hoenn bias

[prime dust]

nah, also mega typings got removed in a past update, it uses to be self fusions of mons that had mega forms gained their mega typings [5.1-5.2], it got nixed in 5.3

[stuck bane]

also makes sense, it was probably weird to have mega typing without mega stats

[white meadow]

would a half rayquaza fusion be able to megaevolve twice?

[stuck bane]

they get boosted xp anyways so there's no real need for megas, I was just theorizing possible uses to take the underscore system farther, so it really seems like UN, potentially wishiwashi, and almost no chance on aegislash would be the only mons that might use the underscore system, and I personally think thats for the better: meloetta with both form choices, and darmanitan, and castform, I'm just surprised so few are really going to use underscore form changes

[prime dust]

not many mons have form changes...we're likley to never see the form shift for aegislash since that is so in-built at this point

giratina is possible, but i think that's mainly because that is an out of combat shift

[stuck bane]

yeah, makes sense, wouldn't be surprised if they treated it the same way for wishiwashi too, which is kind of fitting in a way, UN having stats rivaling arceus has its own special underscore system all to itself since its so popular

[stuck bane]

I imagine those would work more like ori does now, frog said he'll try to make relic song work for meloetta so she has an in battle and out of battle form change, giratina would be another out of battle, shaymin would be another out of battle, etc.

[prime dust]

yeah, castform is likely going to be the biggest challenge outside necrozma

[white meadow]

if it ever gets added

[stuck bane]

||ignoring the fact that castforms sags means it will never get in because this is a game that kids play|| yeah I don't know if they'd even bother trying to make it work in battle, an out of battle form change might serve it better and make people want to use it more, again if it ever gets added

[white meadow]

Whats the problem with Castforms body?
Its a Water molecule

I imagine Castform makes every pokemon Peter griffin

[stuck bane]

if miltank's nipples have to be censored castform will likely face similar restrictions

[stuck bane]

oh but thats actually a creative one, maybe its not all bad

[white meadow]

I think 2 molecules and literall nipples are something diffrent

Also the problem on Miltank fusions is makeing them way tooo big and adding milk spurting out of it

[stuck bane]

as far as I've heard, they take anything that looks even somewhat suggestive very seriously, maybe it wouldn't be that bad but it feels like something they'd have to tell spriters similar to goodra's "don't make the thighs too big"

[proud lion]

Casrform will likely take four spots

[white meadow]

i get the fact that it's a water molecule but they could have just put the "hydrogen atoms" at the top instead of down there

something like this

[white meadow]

I mean Goodra is one of the biggest r34 mons
Obviously they look after that
Im unsure im sure they look a bit on humanoid mons but else it would probably be fine

[white meadow]

I mean they did something similiar on Magmar and he still gets called boob head

well the two atoms usually aren't portrayed as sticking together

[stuck bane]

yeah but way less often, castform has the most jokes made about it, and unlike magmar it's simple design means theres not a ton left to go off of explicitly showing "this is a castform"